IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-04-28

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DocScrutinizer	when I got two .tgz that differ only in a few small files, a few bytes in there, while 99.9% are identical... What will a new compressing them into another .tgz get me? 0% compression or 50%?	01:09
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DocScrutinizer	is there even any compressing archiver that would result in any compression on archiving two 100% identical .tgz?	01:12
DocScrutinizer	(given the original .tgz files are >256bytes)	01:12
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SpeedEvil	0%	01:20
SpeedEvil	Well	01:20
DocScrutinizer	thought as much	01:20
SpeedEvil	A block compressor with a large enough window will compress two identical files of under the block size to one	01:20
SpeedEvil	But compression is like encryption	01:21
DocScrutinizer	even the smartest compression algo won't use a "dictionary" of several MB length - based on the one file	01:21
SpeedEvil	one or two bytes different in the input stream (the uncompressed tar) - means the output catastrophically differs	01:21
DocScrutinizer	ouch	01:22
DocScrutinizer	well, actually they were .tar	01:22
DocScrutinizer	but that would complicate my basic question	01:22
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DocScrutinizer	dd if=/dev/urandom of=file1 bs=1M count=1; cp file1 file2; tar -czf archive file1 file2	01:27
SpeedEvil	try it with 100k, and bzip2 -9	01:28
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	01:40
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* SpeedEvil sighs.		01:51
SpeedEvil	I need to do some work on that web-proxy thing.	01:51
SpeedEvil	Compressing	01:51
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Sazpaimon__	guys	07:20
Sazpaimon__	tell me if I made the right decision	07:20
Sazpaimon__	my girlfriend started playing minecraft	07:20
Sazpaimon__	so im like, what will get you to not play this game	07:20
Sazpaimon__	she says coin dozer	07:20
Sazpaimon__	so I get out the N900, install nitdroid and coin dozer	07:21
Sazpaimon__	i dont know which is worse	07:21
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joga	Sazpaimon__ why not play minecraft?	07:27
joga	challenge her to build a computer there	07:27
Sazpaimon__	because minecraft is stupid	07:28
joga	no it's not	07:29
joga	sounds like you haven't played it! :p	07:29
joga	why not play with your girlfriend in multiplayer?	07:29
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Sazpaimon__	I have played it	07:36
Sazpaimon__	its stupid	07:36
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joga	Sazpaimon in comparison to what?	07:39
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Sazpaimon	it doesnt compare	07:40
Sazpaimon	its in a league of its own	07:40
joga	yeah, it doesn't :)	07:40
Sazpaimon	a league i want no part of	07:40
joga	it's more like painting than playing some "game"	07:40
Sazpaimon	this is coming from someone that runs a minecraft server	07:41
Sazpaimon	i just dont like it	07:41
joga	what sort of server do you run?	07:41
Sazpaimon	just a vanilla server	07:41
joga	I didn't really bother much with it either before I found there was a technic pack and a multiplayer version too	07:42
joga	so it was great fun building machines with a couple of friends	07:42
joga	:)	07:42
joga	but anyway, it is more like a sandbox where you have to make you own fun, and some of it can be pretty intimidating for sure heh	07:43
joga	to me it's very impressive from a simulation perspective and social interaction	07:43
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Sazpaimon	on a side note a microsim fits well on an N900	07:45
Sazpaimon	once you align it correctly	07:46
joga	heh, I made a ghetto solar usb charger an hour ago, it's charging a tiny phone right now. anyone tried a solar panel with n900?	07:50
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robbiethe1st	joga: so long as your voltage is between 4.5 and 6V it'll attempt to charge	08:02
robbiethe1st	So long as the voltage never goes over 20V, you won't ruin anything.	08:02
joga	robbiethe1st yeah, these have a decent 7.5V or so and I have 3 of them in parallel (with a 5v voltage regulator), it's the first time I just actually test them to charge something	08:03
robbiethe1st	N900's TI charging chip is surprisingly tolerant; if the voltage droops too much however, it will slow down/stop charging...	08:04
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joga	robbiethe1st ok	08:23
joga	I'll see how the little phone does first if I go to sleep and leave it there	08:23
joga	sun's shining here already	08:23
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flux	when using gst-launch for streaming video out of n900, is there a way to focus the camera?	12:51
flux	I guess I could do it at least with a custom software that activates the gstreamer pipeline.. maybe even python, direct-on-device?	12:52
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flux	at least if I'm able to acces the v4l2 device directly (can I get the fd handle from gstreamer? can I reopen the device? at least I could find the open fd from proc :P)	13:00
flux	..I should be able to set the focus to 'auto'	13:00
flux	oh, it gives device-fd, so it should work alright. next question, is there an app that already does this?-)	13:01
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freemangordon	hi	13:03
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freemangordon	guys, recently i bought a nokia phone to my GF. for my surprise, the battery inside was the same (BL5J) as in n900, but 1430 mAh, instead of 1320, so we swap the batteries. The problem is, that lshal never shows more than about 1200 mAh charge, capacity is correctly reported (1415). Anything I can do to fully charge the battery?	13:09
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user_	hi there, got a question.	13:14
user_	is it possible to continuous capture images with the n900?	13:15
user_	maybe over the shell?	13:15
user_	used to do the same with my canon eos	13:16
user_	anyone?	13:21
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ShadowJK	phone-control has a option to take pics but ime they dont come out well	13:30
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DocScrutinizer	freemangordon: your question is incorrect	13:46
freemangordon	:) why?	13:47
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer ^^^	13:47
DocScrutinizer	lshal never shows more than VS I can do to fully charge the battery	13:47
DocScrutinizer	figure :-D	13:47
freemangordon	well, ok. However, it seems bme really does not want to charge that over 80%.	13:48
DocScrutinizer	what makes you think so?	13:48
freemangordon	that is what lshal shows	13:49
ShadowJK	Charging is OK, the meter isn't	13:49
freemangordon	hmm, why is that?	13:49
DocScrutinizer	I thought he already noticed, after I critisized his Q, ShadowJK :-D	13:49
freemangordon	bme does not know what current for how long? really?	13:50
ShadowJK	it's somewhat hardcoded for 1200mAh-ish battery :P	13:50
ShadowJK	And it has some voltage curve matching stuff going on too, mixed with the current integration stuff	13:51
freemangordon	so, if i understand what you say, the battrey is fully charged, but i have 7 bars? And that is ok?	13:51
DocScrutinizer	get bq27k-detail to get an idea	13:51
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer, your i2c script would do the better job?	13:52
ShadowJK	If you get green light with bme charging, it's more than full	13:52
DocScrutinizer	or bq27200.sh	13:52
freemangordon	the one in wiki?	13:53
ShadowJK	(except if you insert charger when battery is close to full (80-90 percent or so), green light might come on right away, but it's still charging	13:53
ShadowJK	The charging, green light, and bme battery meter all operate independently..	13:54
freemangordon	ok, thanks a lot.	13:54
ShadowJK	and bars - percentage mapping isn't linear :)	13:54
freemangordon	yeah, i know that, but lshal showing 80% and battery meter showing 7 bars 15 minutes after green led made me curious WTF is going on	13:55
DocScrutinizer	freemangordon: yes, the one on wiki (I guess)	13:56
freemangordon	ok, thanks	13:56
ShadowJK	Also it's designed to show "0" relatively early on, so that device runs long enough to find charger cable and more	13:57
freemangordon	yeah, know that too	13:57
ShadowJK	The hardware charge meter has nice accuracy, but it's 0 point is kinda low	13:57
ShadowJK	And default parameters in it are really wrong	13:57
freemangordon	yeah, it needs calibration	13:58
ShadowJK	but it self-learns and adjusts those, however under bme control the required conditions for self-learning are never met	13:58
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer, what has happened with your project (together with pali) for bme replacement?	13:58
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ShadowJK	bbl, food	13:59
freemangordon	bb	13:59
DocScrutinizer	I dunno about what pali does, I never had any such project actually	13:59
freemangordon	but you wrote some specs iirc	13:59
DocScrutinizer	sure	13:59
Pali	I had created driver	14:00
DocScrutinizer	which pali generously disregarded	14:00
freemangordon	:D	14:00
freemangordon	so, hof far are we from getting bme replaced?	14:00
Pali	ready for testing	14:00
freemangordon	wow, where?	14:00
Pali	I wrote info somewhere in TMO usb host mode thread	14:01
freemangordon	but that deserves its own thread aiui	14:01
DocScrutinizer	freemangordon: btw all I wrote was a 50% done API spec for a bq24150 driver	14:02
DocScrutinizer	nothing at all regarding bme replacement	14:02
Pali	DocScrutinizer, my driver has interface as you described in spec	14:02
DocScrutinizer	ohh? never realized	14:02
DocScrutinizer	:-D	14:02
Pali	I exported all settings via sysfs	14:03
Pali	all what was written in bq datasheet	14:03
freemangordon	so, now we just need a wrapper to i2c for bme?	14:03
Pali	(no idea if TI bq chip has some undocumented registers..)	14:03
DocScrutinizer	freemangordon: nope	14:03
Pali	no, we need to remove BME :D	14:03
freemangordon	ouch	14:04
DocScrutinizer	freemangordon: with pali's (my) sysfs API you don't use i2c anymore	14:04
freemangordon	yeah, but bme uses it afaik	14:04
DocScrutinizer	Pali: it has no undocumented registers	14:04
Pali	but kernel driver doing all what is doing BME...	14:04
freemangordon	and i am not sure we have all the knowlegde needed to integrate in the same way bme does	14:04
DocScrutinizer	though bme is writing to register #46 or sth	14:04
DocScrutinizer	X-P	14:05
freemangordon	do we?	14:05
Pali	so then my driver does not doing what BME :D	14:05
DocScrutinizer	forget that	14:05
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DocScrutinizer	we neither need that nor do we want or like to do what bme does	14:05
Pali	freemangordon, you need to replace hald-addon-bme and libbmeipc library	14:06
Pali	for both exists open source implementations	14:06
freemangordon	hmm	14:06
Pali	you need only rewrite both programs to use sysfs interface from bq2415x and bq27x00 driver	14:06
freemangordon	here? http://gitorious.org/mer-toggles/hald-addon-bme	14:06
Pali	yes	14:06
Pali	it is simple addon for hal	14:07
Pali	nothing more	14:07
freemangordon	hmm, let me see	14:07
Pali	also check lshal -u on real n900	14:07
Pali	that version is for n8x0	14:07
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freemangordon	didn't understand that	14:07
Pali	you need to export BME properties	14:07
Pali	you can see it with command: lshal	14:07
freemangordon	aah, ok	14:08
DocScrutinizer	bme is like controlling your washing machine by hand via switching between max heating (95°C) and cold to keep the water @ 60° for the laundry, then manually stepping thru drain water, rinse, tumble, whatnot	14:08
DocScrutinizer	our bq24150 is the washing machine that perfectly knows to do all that without you(/bme) forcing that manually on it	14:08
Pali	and libbmeipc is library which communicate with BME	14:09
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Pali	so needs to rewrite to use again /sys/power/bq... instead some BME socket interface	14:09
freemangordon	well, why not do it then?	14:09
Pali	no time :D	14:10
freemangordon	aah, yeah :D	14:10
DocScrutinizer	freemangordon: basically it's still non-comparible to a stock system	14:11
Pali	freemangordon, here is that thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1156614&postcount=973	14:11
DocScrutinizer	thanks to friggin bq27200 driver	14:11
DocScrutinizer	I.E. on a system set up to run that sys/bq interface youz can't use original bme anymore	14:12
Pali	you cannot use both BME and bq :D	14:12
DocScrutinizer	concurrently obviously not	14:12
DocScrutinizer	but tanks to the way sysfs and modules work, it isn't even an alternative at boot time (unless you make sure bq27200.ko isn't modprobed when you plan to boot to the bme version of system)	14:14
DocScrutinizer	almost same applies to different versions of hald-addon-bme and libbmeipc	14:15
freemangordon	And why should I want that? i.e. having HW charger, why should I want to use those spaghetti called bme?	14:15
Pali	DocScrutinizer, both modules (bq2415x_charger.ko and bq27x00_battery.ko) will be always blacklisted in kernel-power	14:15
DocScrutinizer	freemangordon: no idea :-D	14:16
freemangordon	why the should we care about so-called "bme" version?	14:16
Pali	I will look at LKML what problems have kernel devs for integrating bq2415x module into upstream	14:16
Pali	...and try to fix that	14:16
freemangordon	Pali, it is stable in KP50?	14:17
DocScrutinizer	good plan	14:17
Pali	I tested it and worked fine with pre v50	14:17
freemangordon	ok	14:17
Pali	binary .ko file on my page is for pre v50	14:17
Pali	current version does not support autoselect changer current limit	14:18
DocScrutinizer	Pali: I got 3 weeks holiday now, maybe I could invest some time into this development	14:18
Pali	but in upstream kernel is isp1704 driver which provide inromations about connected charger type	14:19
freemangordon	and I have 4 days, lets do something about it	14:19
DocScrutinizer	Pali: this upstream isp1704 driver for _sure_ conflicts with our monolitic kernel USB driver	14:20
Pali	yes I know	14:20
Pali	but code for isp driver is copied from musb 2.6.28	14:20
Pali	I will look if it is simple to use our isp code in musb for that too	14:21
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freemangordon	ok, I am going to port hald-addon-bme	14:21
DocScrutinizer	Pali: check hostmode kernel for a printk dmesg string like "some bastard tried to probe for charger"	14:22
DocScrutinizer	OWWTE	14:22
DocScrutinizer	s/WW/WT/	14:22
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: OWTTE	14:22
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DocScrutinizer	doing D+/- short probing in isp1707/4 breaks any actual data transmission over USB that may run concurrently	14:23
DocScrutinizer	that'S the root cause why we need to remove bme for h-e-n	14:24
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DocScrutinizer	that and of course the boostmode we operate bq24150 that conflicts with bme chargemode. Anyway we enable vboost and that gets detected by bme via vbus sysnode. bme thinks vbus == charger/host attached, and queries sysnode for fastcharger detect which in turn causes kernel to switch isp1707 to D+- short detect which breaks our USB hostmode setup	14:27
* ShadowJK doesn't use bme		14:29
DocScrutinizer	so if your bme 'replacement' does the same (read fastcharger detection sysnode), it's as incompatible to h-e-n as bme_original	14:29
DocScrutinizer	since we use booston script to enable bq24150 boostmode via direct I2C, there's no way for kernel (yet) to know vbus is not applied by external charger/USB-host but rather endogenic, and thus kernel refusing to mess with 1707 to detect fastcharger when somebody reading that sysnode	14:32
Pali	it doing upstream isp kernel driver	14:32
Pali	my driver has 2 modes: one auto (prepaired mode for isp or something else which select charger current limit automatically) and manual mode when automode is disabled	14:33
DocScrutinizer	of course your/our bq24150.ko might know it's driving the chip into boostmode so "the kernel" now could know it's endogenic and thus tell musb kernel driver to reject D+- probing	14:33
Pali	so when you activate hostmode, driver changed to manual and then do not listen for any auto changes	14:34
DocScrutinizer	:nod: not wrapping my head around it completely, but on first touch it sounds about correct way	14:36
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Pali	next will be to implement simple battery charging into u-boot	14:42
DocScrutinizer	well, that's extremely simple	14:47
DocScrutinizer	bare bones script like my PoC script will do	14:48
DocScrutinizer	max USB current = 500mA	14:48
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DocScrutinizer	freemangordon: not wiki, http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/	14:50
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freemangordon	i found a post from estel with link to it	14:50
DocScrutinizer	Pali: (uboot) http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/charge21_500mA-USBlimit__UNTESTED.sh	14:51
DocScrutinizer	though that's for sure way too sophisticated and "large"	14:51
Pali	it is same as charge21.sh?	14:52
DocScrutinizer	no, it's "patched" for max 500mA USB	14:53
DocScrutinizer	of course you can patch http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=658278#post658278 same way	14:53
Pali	ok, 500mA limit is good for usb charger and also wallchanger	14:57
Pali	freemangordon, I updated u-boot deb packages & source code on gitorious	14:58
freemangordon	great	14:58
DocScrutinizer	# Register 0x1	14:58
DocScrutinizer	# 8: 00 = 100, 01 = 500, 10 = 800mA	14:58
DocScrutinizer	# 4: 11 = no limit	14:58
DocScrutinizer	i2cset -y 2 0x6b 0x01 0x48;	14:59
Pali	3 problems: mkimage not worked, syntax error in debian/rules and bad size (only half) of RAM in u-boot rx51 port	14:59
Pali	fixed	14:59
Pali	DocScrutinizer, 800mA is for what type of changer?	14:59
freemangordon	along with cursor garbadge and eMMC -11 ?	15:00
freemangordon	*-110	15:00
Pali	same version as yesterday	15:00
DocScrutinizer	0x48 = 0b0100 1000 = [(8,4) = 01 = 500)]	15:00
freemangordon	ok	15:00
Pali	only that 3 small fixes	15:00
DocScrutinizer	Pali: 800 is for chager that can deliver max 800 ;-)	15:01
Pali	of course, but how BME detect this charger type?	15:01
DocScrutinizer	not at all	15:01
DocScrutinizer	unless USB ENUM would advertise such strange host that allegedly can deliver 800mA	15:02
DocScrutinizer	I think it's not possible	15:02
Pali	In isp upstream kernel code is only 3 options: none, usb charger (500mA) and wallchanger (no limit)	15:02
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	15:03
DocScrutinizer	about what we can detect	15:03
DocScrutinizer	where "none"=100mA	15:03
DocScrutinizer	= 0b00xx xxxx	15:04
DocScrutinizer	in register #01	15:04
Pali	it is safe in u-boot enable permanent charging (e.g. when charger is not connected too) with limit 500mA?	15:04
DocScrutinizer	yes, mostly	15:04
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Pali	ok	15:05
DocScrutinizer	as safe as any random USB fan/lamp/rocketlauncher/whatever gadget	15:05
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DocScrutinizer	USB mugwarmer even worse - they use up to 1000+mA without any "safety check"	15:06
DocScrutinizer	that's how you fry one out of 5000 laptops	15:06
DocScrutinizer	not nowadays anymore, I guess	15:06
DocScrutinizer	per definition USB has to be short circuit resilient	15:07
DocScrutinizer	one some PCs windows actively detects obercurrent/short on USB and powers down the USB in case of error	15:08
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DocScrutinizer	since that doesn't improve your life in any way, it's getting rarely done like that nowadays	15:10
DocScrutinizer	nowadays each PC USB host shall have an electronic fuse that triggers on a safe threshold @ >=500mA	15:11
DocScrutinizer	and OS should keep sticky fingers out of that	15:11
DocScrutinizer	most PC have a threshold of >=1000mA	15:12
DocScrutinizer	I.E. they use only one electronic fuse with 1000 or even 2000mA and feed the vbus rail to 2 or 3 or 4 USB ports in parallel	15:13
DocScrutinizer	so you could either use 4 compliant 500mA loads on 4 USB ports, or one spec-breaking mugwarmer 1500mA+ on one USB port while not using the other 3 ports	15:15
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DocScrutinizer	or s/mugwarmer/UMTS-stick, 3.5" HDD, whatever/	15:16
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DocScrutinizer	Nokia been extremely careful not to break USB spects with N900	15:16
DocScrutinizer	regarding the max allowed current under any phase of ENUM/detection	15:17
DocScrutinizer	I think it's overly prudent	15:17
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DocScrutinizer	but then, IANAL and maybe they have their very own history of paying refund for destroyed laptop USB ports, like they have with exploding batteries	15:19
DocScrutinizer	if any of the chinese USB-acme-gadget (mugwarmer) manufacturers was as prudent, they couldn'T sell a single unit	15:20
DocScrutinizer	My 3.5G USB dongle came with a Y-cable to split the vbus load on two USB ports of PC. They obviously had less scruple to violate specs (basically all 2G/3G dongles do)	15:24
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DocScrutinizer	either that or they violate GSM/UMTS specs	15:24
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Pali	freemangordon, I uploaded my last version of bq2415x_charger driver and .ko binary for kp v50: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/bq2415x/	16:10
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freemangordon	Pali, thanks	16:18
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Pali	freemangordon, is booting from sd card via u-boot working?	16:23
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RST38h	Meanwhile: Portable Battery-Powered X-ray Machine Guarantees You'll Always Find the Best Kinder Surprise Toys	16:30
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Pali	ping NIN101	16:39
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: awesome	16:40
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: reminds me on the x-ray machines they had in shoe shops here, back in the 50s and into the 60s, though in the 60s they already were forbidden	16:41
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DocScrutinizer	I found one of those when I was dunno maybe 4 years old, and of course immediately tested how it works - my mum got really upset	16:44
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ErwinJunge	x-ray machines in shoeshops? wtf?	16:47
Termana	DocScrutinizer, that explains everything	16:48
Termana	lol j/k :p	16:48
DocScrutinizer	pedoskop : http://www.physikmuseum.at/index.php?aid=18 // http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/tech/0,1518,268071,00.html	16:48
* DocScrutinizer aims a MTHEL at Termana general direction		16:48
ErwinJunge	DocScrutinizer, but what's the point?	16:50
ErwinJunge	I have a problem adding a target to scratchbox (to use gcc 4.6.2 from freemangordon). When trying to use fakeroot, it complains about a missing library, running apt-get upgrade gives me dependency errors, and running apt-get -f install gives me this on libc6: package architecture (i386) does not match system ()	16:52
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ErwinJunge	Obviously, the architecture is wrong (should be armel). Anyone know how to fix that?	16:52
ErwinJunge	sb-menu info on target: http://pastebin.com/sUESLT0C	16:55
ErwinJunge	That shows arm as architecture :(	16:55
ErwinJunge	Found the issue, SBOX_DPKG_INST_ARCH was not set.	16:59
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DocScrutinizer	ErwinJunge: point of what?	17:02
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ErwinJunge	point of having an x-ray device in a shoestore	17:06
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DocScrutinizer	well,isn't that obvious? x-ray baby feet with shoes on	17:14
DocScrutinizer	see if they fit	17:15
RST38h	fit where?	17:15
DocScrutinizer	sigh	17:15
RST38h	yep	17:15
DocScrutinizer	yep wut?	17:16
DocScrutinizer	go xray your kinder choclate eggs	17:16
RST38h	the feet already fit in those shoes, somehow	17:16
RST38h	Doc <-- obviously being playful	17:16
ErwinJunge	Interesting definition of obvious there ;) I guess the harmfullness of x-rays wasn't know back then?	17:16
DocScrutinizer	ErwinJunge: I guess you noticed the URLs I posted above?	17:17
RST38h	Doc: Lumias have been jailbroken. Sadly, not the 800s with NOKIA bootloader though	17:18
ErwinJunge	Yeah, but german isn't in my library of languages :)	17:18
ErwinJunge	Or in this case Austrian I guess (does that matter?)	17:18
DocScrutinizer	ErwinJunge: especially for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope	17:21
ErwinJunge	Pedoscopes --> seriously? Sounds like something law enforcement would use to find sexual predators :)	17:25
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* DocScrutinizer hands ErwinJunge a glass of radon water		17:26
ErwinJunge	Never knew these things existed. Thanks for the laughs :)	17:26
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ErwinJunge	Got to go, byebye all	17:29
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DocScrutinizer	o/	17:29
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joga	damn...this funny small taiwanese phone I tested the solar thingy with is pretty remarkable in terms of power consumption...I charged it in direct sunlight for roughly two hours until it got a bit cloudy, and turning it on it showed 1 bar of battery...now it has a maintained a call for 36 minutes ._o	17:37
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joga	this one :) http://mobile.softpedia.com/phones/i-mobile/i-mobile-310.shtml	17:41
Pali	DocScrutinizer, can I vote for one extras-testing package version too times?	17:41
Pali	*two or more times	17:42
DocScrutinizer	hm?	17:42
Pali	or I found bug in maemo.org packages interface :D	17:42
DocScrutinizer	nope	17:42
Pali	see http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/kernel-power/2.6.28-10power50/	17:43
Pali	I CAN	17:43
DocScrutinizer	o.O	17:43
DocScrutinizer	you're special :-P	17:43
DocScrutinizer	I aways thought only mohammad was special	17:43
DocScrutinizer	til it turned out he's my father	17:44
DocScrutinizer	~mohammadag	17:44
infobot	methinks mohammadag is your father, or special	17:44
Pali	:)	17:44
DocScrutinizer	for the geeks: http://www.fingers-welt.de/gallerie/eigen/elektro/roentgen/roentgen.htm	17:45
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joga	what's the typical power consumption of a very low-end phone such as the i-mobile 310 I pasted above, or something similar during a call?	17:51
joga	(assuming decent environment etc)	17:52
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joga	I haven't really benchmarked actual call times myself I think	17:54
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joga	I guess that's sort of a dumb question though...this device just seems to require a lot less than advertised, but I dunno	17:57
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DocScrutinizer	joga: always something between 50mW and 1W, depending on TX Powerlevel the BTS requests for the phone's transmitter	18:00
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joga	DocScrutinizer I'm just very impressed it's been maintaining the call for an hour now, I was expecting it to perform maybe 10 minutes with the ghetto setup I had and would have been content with that too :)	18:01
DocScrutinizer	that's the reason why you never can get the call times the manufacturer claims: you never get the lowest TX PWRLVL in eal life	18:01
joga	but in this case I'd expect to get more than they claim, I should try it sometime..	18:02
DocScrutinizer	then an even more funny and more commonly ignored detail is: while you're just "listening" your phone has no useful data to transmit, so will stop transmitting all together for 95%..99% of the time	18:02
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joga	DocScrutinizer that's why I've been playing youtube videos and holding the other phone near my keyboard...both are in the same room now	18:03
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joga	to sort of emulate an awkward conversation maybe :)	18:04
DocScrutinizer	good approach	18:04
joga	but this is pretty nice since I'll be going to some festival abroad for a few days next week and we'll be camping out, so at least I'm pretty confident I can use a phone if there's at least some sun :)	18:06
Pali	freemangordon, see http://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2012-April/123333.html	18:07
joga	ok...now it finally hung up, lasted for 1 hour 7 minutes	18:10
joga	the other phone was probably transmitting more though, but that's pretty good anyway	18:10
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DocScrutinizer	btw my figure above been incorrect - poorly designed phones may burn up to 4..5W in bursts	18:15
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DocScrutinizer	2W max TX power, *<50% efficiency	18:15
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joga	DocScrutinizer since you probably know an answer (I'm less than an amateur with electronics)... right now I just have 3 panels in parallel and a voltage regulator before the usb port, but would it be possible to use a plain nokia battery (since I probably have a couple lying around) for the contraption instead of directly feeding it to the phone's battery? I'm not sure if they're the right kind of battery to use for such	18:31
joga	I was also thinking of a simple 6xaa case but can't find any junk with a big enough battery holder and should I make one myself it would probably suck anyway :)	18:32
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DocScrutinizer	err, what? charge USB device from LiIon? doesn't work	18:32
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joga	ok, that's what I basically wanted to hear	18:33
joga	:)	18:33
joga	I have some nimh but they're too tiny	18:33
DocScrutinizer	you need sth like 4V minimum to make it properly charge	18:33
joga	can you put those in series, if I have two	18:33
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DocScrutinizer	LiIon has a voltage of nominal 3.7V which is too low	18:34
DocScrutinizer	USB doesn't "survivie" voltage >6V	18:34
DocScrutinizer	so 2 in series also is no option	18:34
joga	but my panels give about 7V currently	18:34
joga	(and it's 5.00V after the regulator)	18:34
DocScrutinizer	well a regulator can cope with whatever it's designed for	18:35
joga	I mean basically to charge the batteries first with solar and then feed that via regulator to phone or whatever	18:35
DocScrutinizer	for sure a 5V regulator can take 8V input	18:35
joga	it's just that the only decent battery I have around are some old nokia batteries I think	18:36
DocScrutinizer	you mustn't charge LiIon brute force!	18:36
joga	ok, I'll scratch the idea of using those for this :)	18:36
DocScrutinizer	you can do this with NiMH	18:36
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DocScrutinizer	NOT with LiIon	18:37
joga	wish I had those as abundantly	18:37
joga	I was supposed to get a couple for this specific purpose but I've forgot	18:37
DocScrutinizer	4 AA cells in series are somewhat safe to use for USB powering	18:38
DocScrutinizer	voltage range should be 4.4V...6.4V, something USB usually can cope with	18:39
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joga	how low can the voltage be that an n900 would charge?	18:39
DocScrutinizer	don't blame me when your USB emits blue magic smoke though	18:39
DocScrutinizer	as mentioned above, it needs ~4V	18:40
joga	ah, ok	18:40
DocScrutinizer	beter 4.5V	18:40
DocScrutinizer	but for all my experience it survives 7V easily	18:41
DocScrutinizer	so with 4 primary cells you're quite likely just fine	18:41
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joga	at some point I should try and do this properly, ie. weave the panels into a backpack or whatever and put some adapters, battery and make it less embarrassing	18:42
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DocScrutinizer	as 4* 1.5V(nominal) = 6V; 4* 1.6V(max)=6,4V; 4* 1.2V(real voltage)=4.8V	18:43
joga	DocScrutinizer thanks for all the info	18:43
DocScrutinizer	YW	18:43
joga	I'm pretty new to the electronics stuff but junk projects like these are fun to try, I also learn more albeit slowly :)	18:44
DocScrutinizer	I just probed a fresh alkaline cell: 1.67V	18:46
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Pali	freemangordon, that patch really fixing damaged framebuffer output	19:00
Pali	I will rebase patches, create new build and sent patch series to u-boot mailinglist	19:00
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spark666	its there a way to rename my n900 user whitout any risc?	19:56
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NIN101	my intuition says: no.	20:11
SpeedEvil	My intuition sings the LumberJack song.	20:12
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer, Pali, we have hald-addon-bme i386 compiled in SB and my IDA has hexrays :P	20:15
freemangordon	I am almost ready with REing	20:15
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Pali	freemangordon, disassembler is not needed	20:15
Pali	you do not need to know how hald-addon-bme is communicating with BME	20:16
Pali	you only need to know hal interface for bme	20:16
freemangordon	it is, the one you in gitorious does not initialize in the same way	20:16
freemangordon	I know	20:16
Pali	and hal interface is visible via lshal :-)	20:16
freemangordon	but it handles dbus calls too	20:16
freemangordon	com.nokia.bme.request	20:16
freemangordon	status_info_req and timeleft_info_req	20:17
Pali	better look at libbmeipc	20:17
Pali	more closed apps are linked against libbmeipc	20:17
freemangordon	well, let mi finish that one :P	20:17
freemangordon	*me	20:17
Pali	ok :-)	20:17
freemangordon	anyway	20:18
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* RST38h moos		20:19
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Pali	freemangordon, I published new build of u-boot with that cfb flush patch	20:45
Pali	also now I send patch series (without bootmenu) to u-boot mailinglist	20:46
Pali	my bootmenu was rejected, becuase it must be rewrite to new menu code (common/menu.c)	20:46
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zap	Hey, anybody updated advanced-power-monitor today? It doesn't work anymore for me.	21:42
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zap	It kind of runs, but the status bard power applet shows a gray bar instead of charge level	21:42
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zap	When running from command line it prints "[F] BQ27200	21:51
zap	[F] BQ27200 Alternative". [F] means failed?	21:51
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zap	"lshal \| grep bq27200" gives nothing... what could be the cause?	21:57
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	22:14
DocScrutinizer	I CBA to check ftw this "monitor" does, but this msg sounds a lot like it's using the broken-badly bq27200.ko kernel module which got deprecated and hopefully completely removed from PowerKernel	22:15
zap	yep, it looks like it should use Nokia's BME	22:16
zap	but it also says "[L] Nokia's BME ... [U] Nokia's BME"	22:17
zap	as if it would load, then unload	22:17
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DocScrutinizer	sure	22:18
zap	so which one is supposed to work? BME or bq27200? And yes, I have the power kernel	22:19
zap	but power manager worked until today	22:20
zap	hurray, just removed advanced-power-manager and all works now fine	22:20
zap	seems I have installed this thing some time just 4 lulz...	22:21
DocScrutinizer	look, somebody wrote a poor implementation for a bq27200.ko driver to expose the registers to /sys/. It did break bme as it exclusively opens and locks the chip on I2C, Then some f* fool decided to remove locking from I2C driver, exposing whole device to massive peril of hw breakage by random collisions on any I2C bus - but it somewhat made bq27200.ko cooperate with bme, as both didn't even try to avoid collisions	22:21
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DocScrutinizer	effectively this fol pulled the pin of the hand grenade	22:22
DocScrutinizer	fool*	22:22
zap	:) and a third fool wrote advanced-power-manager using all this shit, got it :-D	22:22
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DocScrutinizer	when I noticed this MESS, I convinced PK maintainer to immediately remove all that crap from PK	22:22
zap	I wonder how advanced-power-monitor worked until this morning	22:23
zap	are there alternative ways to know battery capacity?	22:23
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DocScrutinizer	probably it worked sitting on a ticking bomb, and this morning you updated kernel	22:23
zap	I updated it a while ago... but possible it was the first time I rebooted :)	22:24
zap	ok, the mystery is gone, all seems clear now	22:24
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/	22:24
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DocScrutinizer	the bullshit "works" without the anti-locking patch as long as bme gets started first, then modprobe the crappy bq27200.ko	22:26
Itschue	hello someone here who use ovi maps on n900 ?	22:26
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DocScrutinizer	with antilocking patch it ""works"" no matter what - until your device emits blue magic smoke	22:26
DocScrutinizer	Itschue: I used to, not using it since dunno, 6 months?	22:27
Itschue	i get ovi maps worked but there are some things that not worked ovi maps calculated the route the red points show the akzuial point but when i came of the route it doesnt recalculate the route	22:28
Itschue	dow you know of recalculating the route when you came(come) off it worked ?	22:30
DocScrutinizer	hmm, I think it never did	22:31
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Itschue	its nice to see you docsrutinizer the last time you helped me was great if you can remember	22:32
DocScrutinizer	since OVI maps is using off-board routing, it won't as easily recalculate route when you're off	22:32
DocScrutinizer	I remember your nick, but that's it - sorry	22:33
Itschue	no sorry its ok its a very long time ago	22:33
Itschue	did i understand it right that ovi maps cant recalculate the route when i came off it?	22:34
DocScrutinizer	it can, if you got a data connection	22:34
DocScrutinizer	since it's causing traffic, I guess it won't do it without getting advised to do so	22:34
DocScrutinizer	I'm using marble, with monav on-board routing	22:35
DocScrutinizer	monav ?= Maemo Onboard NAViagtion	22:35
DocScrutinizer	Itschue: what'S been the topic last time? :-)	22:36
Itschue	i hab auto connect enabled and autodisconnect installed to cancel connection i think or im sure that ovi maps only says and show the first route direction	22:38
Itschue	topic last i get in big trouble with my device because it wont bott and there was no way to reflash and i must get it repairstore	22:38
Itschue	an i think ovi maps use very mouch power because 3 hours rpouting and battery was empty there where ca 5 internetconnectino of view minutes	22:40
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Itschue	much to do docscrutinizer?	22:45
DocScrutinizer	well, not really - holiday :-D	22:47
DocScrutinizer	GPS eating quite a lot of power, as does screen backlight. 3h is ~ normal	22:48
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Itschue	ok i think recalculating only worcs with permanent internet conn. that ther can be auto connect doesnt help because i activate it and ovi maps doesnt recalculate	22:50
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Itschue	marble and monav hmm wich version and which map or better do you know a good howto	22:51
Itschue	and you remember my big trobule?	22:51
DocScrutinizer	umm, install marble, install monav, setup stuff in marble's menus	22:52
DocScrutinizer	no, I'm sure OVI maps doesn't recalculate route as it would cause lots of traffic	22:53
DocScrutinizer	and OVI maps doesn't even find roads without internet support	22:54
DocScrutinizer	which is a bit strange, as it seems it knows about road names of arbitrary points on map	22:54
Itschue	and lots of traffic use lots of battery too hmm ios the laterst version of monav and marble ok? need marble omvoice server or espeak for voice commands?	22:55
DocScrutinizer	anyway, N900 OVI maps never was that brilliant so I don't miss it	22:55
Itschue	and which map for marble from where?	22:55
DocScrutinizer	I dunno	22:55
DocScrutinizer	afaik it's using OSM by default	22:56
NIN101	yep	22:56
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=marble&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same	22:57
DocScrutinizer	>>Marble-data	22:58
DocScrutinizer	Data needed by marble at runtime	22:58
DocScrutinizer	This package contains the architecture independent data files for libmarble. This includes the OpenStreetMap theme, flag images and more.	22:58
Itschue	what is taht for a link docsrcutinizer	22:58
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.org/packages/view/marble-maps/	22:59
DocScrutinizer	>>Additional maps for marble (earth and moon)	22:59
DocScrutinizer	OpenStreetMap derived map themes, educational map themes, satellite map	22:59
DocScrutinizer	themes, themes for other planets.	22:59
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Itschue	g next time i drive at the moon g	23:00
DocScrutinizer	http://marble.garage.maemo.org/	23:00
Itschue	which is a bit strange, as it seems it knows about road names of arbitrary points on map i dont understand this please germman?	23:04
Itschue	you said i dunno ???? i thit i dont know?	23:04
DocScrutinizer	yes	23:05
DocScrutinizer	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67316	23:05
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Itschue	that link is the ovi maps thread right?	23:06
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Itschue	test	23:14
DocScrutinizer	>>It looks excellent. I'll definitely give it a try. Now we know where Nokia can stick their half-baked Ovi Maps<< X-P	23:17
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Itschue	im use the how to in the link you send my n900 is next to mee and i will now install monav and marble and probably (i hope this is the right word) marble virtual globe	23:20
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Itschue	docsrutinizer did i need monav client? i didnt fond something in the howto or have tomatos on my eyes	23:23
DocScrutinizer	you want to install some monav thing - too long ago to recall whether it's been server, client, plugin, whatever	23:25
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DocScrutinizer	beware, there's an incompatible version of monav somewhere in extras-devel IIRC	23:26
DocScrutinizer	maybe fixed now	23:26
DocScrutinizer	some asshat updated extras-devel monav with version that broke API	23:27
Itschue	Make sure to install the correct version of monav-routing-daemon: Version 0.2.release-2 from the extras repository works with all versions of Marble. Version 0.3.release-1 from extras-devel works with Marble 1.1.1 and later.	23:27
DocScrutinizer	MHM	23:27
DocScrutinizer	thanks :-D	23:27
Itschue	i hope later vesion than 03-1 work correct when not i will see this in some minutes or later when im finnished	23:28
Itschue	i hope that al monav things also called somwhat with monav	23:29
Itschue	do you know something about navit and/or the other routing software?	23:30
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DocScrutinizer	well, latest marble version is 1.2 anyway	23:38
DocScrutinizer	so no issue realy	23:38
DocScrutinizer	(other sw) I used to use mappero	23:39
DocScrutinizer	I'm still undecided which one I like more	23:39
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Itschue	hmm marble 1.3 has problems with monav 0.3-3 hmm	23:40
DocScrutinizer	dang	23:40
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Itschue	hmm i must find a way to install other versions i thing i have a look at maemo.org/packages	23:41
DocScrutinizer	a pitty that devels tend to ignore the paramount importance of click-to-install convenient maintenance for apps	23:42
Itschue	that i dont understand	23:43
Itschue	can you please say it in german	23:43
DocScrutinizer	I.E. such type of breakage of a core function by such a silly thing is a killer issue for any app	23:43
DocScrutinizer	in simple english words: marble1.3 not working with monav after simple install: marble dead	23:44
DocScrutinizer	no user gives a flying F* about how many cute new features 1.3 brings to them, as long as it simply doesn't work OOTB	23:45
Itschue	and simple english for I.E. such type of breakage of a core function by such a silly thing is a killer issue for any app	23:45
DocScrutinizer	see above	23:45
DocScrutinizer	~wtf i.e.	23:45
infobot	usage: wtf <foo>.	23:46
DocScrutinizer	~i.e.	23:46
Itschue	so best way is use older version this version which is shown in the howto right?	23:46
infobot	i heard i.e. is there any more efficient way than just putting in a func call?	23:46
DocScrutinizer	dang, I.E. == In Expression	23:46
DocScrutinizer	aalso known as "particularly"	23:46
DocScrutinizer	~forget i.e.	23:47
infobot	DocScrutinizer: i forgot i.e.	23:47
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Itschue	a pitty that devels tend to ignore the paramount importance of click-to-install convenient maintenance for apps I.E. such type of breakage of a core function by such a silly thing is a killer issue for any app please in german in query	23:48
* DocScrutinizer hates lusers abusing ~ attention-char of bot		23:48
DocScrutinizer	Itschue: please disable echo on your terminal ;-)	23:48
Itschue	sorry i dont know where i not often use mirc and its about 10 years ago when i used mirc ver often	23:50
DocScrutinizer	well, a joke. I guess you intentionally echoed my concatenated last 2 posts	23:51
DocScrutinizer	I miss the reason though why you did it	23:52
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Itschue	i want it in german look at query sorry for so much work with me	23:54
Itschue	back to the problems with monav 0.3-3 didnt work with marble 1.3 is there realy an error or only a settings thing that the programmer didnt changeded (i hope you can understand this)	23:58
DocScrutinizer	I understand but don't know	23:58
DocScrutinizer	I seem to remember I pinned the monav version back when, so it never updated to 0.3	23:59

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