IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-02-07

DocScrutinizermgedmin: I'd be interested in how to get e.g. alt on toolbar00:00
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DocScrutinizerseem you can put any arbitrary key there, except qualifier keys other than ctrl00:00
mgedminon a n9? no clue00:01
DocScrutinizerwhich is especially silly as ctrl is available on hw kbd00:01
DocScrutinizeron N900/N81000:01
mgedminsorry, I meant n90000:01
mgedminon the n9 it's possible, I believe -- maliit is more advanced than the old osso-xterm toolbar00:02
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trumee_freemangordon, ping00:41
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fastlane`hello everybody \o/10:05
fastlane`i want to ask a lil question about flashing if ppl are still awake n reading :o10:05
fastlane`well the q is10:06
fastlane`i have kp48 installed along with multiboot and android10:06
fastlane`not last night i tried my best to flash my device, but nothing worked, the flasher always wud get stuck in "waiting for device" msg10:06
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fastlane`flashing from ubuntu 32 bits btw10:07
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fastlane`now rebooted n900, flashed the stock kernel from n900, through the removal command of kp10:08
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fastlane`and then turned off n900 and then flashed again and the flashing worked10:08
fastlane`so my question is, that can  a combination of multiboot and kp on n900 prevent device from getting flashed from the pc?10:09
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Siceloanything is possible with multiboot, afaik10:22
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fastlane`ty Sicelo10:22
fastlane`what my concern is10:23
Siceloah, infobot's away10:23
fastlane`that if i somehow mess up the device in such a way that its not booting up, and multiboot is still installed10:23
fastlane`so i wont be able to flash like ever? so its stuck?10:23
fastlane`but i thought that through the flasher, no matter what problem occured in the software, you shud be able to flash the device back to the reset state10:24
fastlane`boot loaders etc shud not be able to stop the flash process10:24
Siceloi do think it should still flash.. but multiboot is, from what i can gather, a dangerous tool to use10:25
fastlane`hmm yea, cuz i also think that the device's flash process shud be hardwired, and shud take priority over everything, no matter what is there or what is not or what has been overrided10:27
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Paliping X-Fade12:35
X-FadePali: pong12:36
PaliX-Fade, there is problem with package kernel-power-settings12:37
Palibad md5 hash12:37
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X-FadePali: Then it got uploaded twice?12:37
PaliThere was missed last version v13 in extras-devel, so I uploaded it12:37
Paliand seems that in repository is old md5 hash for that package12:38
X-FadeYou should never ever ever ever ever upload the same file with different content.12:39
PaliI uploaded same file12:39
Palisame tar.gz12:39
X-FadeThen the md5 can't change12:39
Palisame diff12:39
Palibut autobuilder builded new deb12:39
Paliand deb has new md512:39
Paliproblem is with builded deb package12:39
X-FadeBut you must always increase version number12:39
X-FadeAnyway, the way to fix this now is to just increase version number and upload again.12:40
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Paliwill it work?12:40
X-Fadeof course12:40
Paliok I will try12:41
X-FadeAs long as you don't change numbering scheme or something else weird with the numbering.12:41
X-Fadejust +1 should work fine.12:41
Paliactual version is 0.1312:41
Palishould I upload 0.13.112:42
X-Fade0.14 is fine?12:42
X-FadeNumbers are free, don't complicate things too much :)12:42
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Paliso I push 0.1412:42
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RST38hCanonical is pulling funding for in-house developers to work on the KDE-based Kubuntu flavor. Canonical now seems committed to its single vision of a GNOME-based Unity as a desktop and other Ubuntu flavors will now have to rely on community support and some infrastructure from Canonical.12:44
X-FadePali: but you can always check yourself with dpkg --compare-versions12:45
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PaliI uploaded 0.14, now waiting for autobuilder...12:45
X-FadePali: dpkg --compare-versions 0.14 gt 0.13 && echo true12:46
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Paliis down again?13:45
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Paliandree__, ok. I think that now I have problems with KDE :D Upgrade needs reboot...13:57
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: o/14:10
DocScrutinizer51at work14:10
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jonwilToo quiet around here :P15:41
Macerwe tired ourselves out bitching about nokia15:47
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Gear_hey, if I have an ssh connection to my phone, how do I make it take a photo through bash15:52
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Gear_the cover would already be open obviously, but how would I make it take a photo? and could you make it focus or anything first?15:53
Sicelophone-control package is the easiest to use15:53
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Gear_is that in the devel repository15:54
Siceloi don't remember .. my n900 is off atm.. possibly extras though15:55
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Gear_do you know the line of sight range of the wifi?15:56
Gear_if my phone is up in the air attached to a kite and I'm using a netbook to control it15:57
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Sicelou will have to wait for hardware gurus here :)16:03
Siceloall i know is that u will be better off disabling power-saving for wifi when u do that16:04
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Palijonwil: what parts of microb browser did you RE?16:40
jonwilI produced a dev package for browser-neteal16:41
jonwilwhich is the library used by microb to talk to the browser daemon16:41
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jonwil-dev package produced using a bunch of bits and pieces from around the net (specifically those bits of the N900 browser that are open plus also some stuff from various older SVN repos containing browser code)16:43
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jonwilI also made the microb-eal-dev package (source code for which is available as part of the microb-eal source but binary was not in SDK repos)16:44
jonwilI also took older source code I found for the browserd daemon16:45
jonwiland modified it so it matched the N900 PR1.3 browserd16:46
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jonwilAnd also I took the browser-neteal-dev package I made and combined it with the tablet-browser-view-dev package and other packages and then proceeded to clone tablet-browser-view-test16:48
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jonwilwhich is a simple test app that tests out the tablet-browser-view widget16:48
jonwilwhich IMO is the easiest way to embed the microb browser in your app16:49
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jonwilas it does lots of work for you16:49
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jonwilThats all I reverse enginereed16:49
jonwilI never reverse engineered much of the browser UI because that was too complex to do16:50
jonwilwhy did you want to know?16:50
jonwilguess he went AFK :P16:53
jonwilPali: ping16:53
PaliI'm asking to know how many components has microb closed16:54
Paliand how hard is to rewritre it16:54
Paliand use new upstream gecko engine16:54
jonwilGiven that the browserd daemon and all the important bits it links to are open source, replacing Gecko with a new one is in theory possible16:56
jonwilBiggest issue would be the plugins and modules (specifically the Flash plugin and the Nokia Maps bits)16:56
jonwilif the plugin API has changed and those things aren't compatible16:57
jonwilthe actual browser UI is still very much closed16:58
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jonwilbut that has basically no links to the underlying Gecko engine16:58
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Paliflash plugin using standard NPAPI interface17:03
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jonwilyeah true but Nokia Maps is different and is using all sorts of Gecko APIs17:08
Palishould be17:09
Palijonwil, any success with opened MCE?17:11
jonwilI tried to take oldest MCE source I could find and then reverse engineer N900 MCE to try and get a match17:12
jonwilbut too many changes between N900 Fremantle MCE17:12
jonwiland oldest MCE in MeeGo GIT repo17:12
PaliI think that other app only using dbus for communicating with MCE, so the dbus api was changed?17:13
jonwilit wasn't the DBUS API so much, it was differences in other parts of17:14
jonwilother parts of the system17:14
jonwilin any case it just isnt possible to get open MCE going without Nokia releasing source17:14
jonwilor and ARM guru showing up to reverse engineer things17:14
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Paliand what is problem with opened mce? could not be full fremantle mce replaced by opened?17:16
jonwilnope, as I said, too many differences in important places between Fremantle MCE and published MeeGo MCE source17:16
Paliand what is different?17:17
PaliI know that 3 fremantle mce modules missing in meego mce17:17
Palimce modules only communicate with kernel or not?17:18
jonwilI dont know exactly what the things that are different do17:18
jonwilbut I know they do things that look important17:18
jonwilI actually tested various things built from the open MeeGo MCE source on my N900 PR1.3 phone and nearly bricked it in the process17:19
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jonwilso that;'s why I feel comfortable saying that we cant do it without Nokia or an ARM guru17:19
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Gear_has anyone here installed ubuntu on an n900?17:27
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jonwilso Pali, do you actually plan to do any work on browserd or otherwise or are you just asking for interests stake?18:03
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Palijonwil, I just asked, because I saw some your emails about RE browserd18:04
jonwilI did browserd because it was fairly easy and it was the only notable closed-source component in that particular chain.18:06
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jonwilAnd I did the other stuff because I wanted to make it possible for people to embed the browser widget the same way Nokia does it18:07
jonwiland talk directly to the browser daemon18:07
jonwilinstead of needing to pull all of Gecko into their app18:08
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jonwilAnyone here know anything about QT on the N900?18:16
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merlin1991Pali ping19:44
merlin1991silly me, he isn't here anymore :D19:45
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WereCatfI am toying around with my N900 and one thing I notice is that all kernels available are at most 2.6.28.. Do the newer kernels lack some essential drivers that would prevent them from working? E.g. would 3.3.0-rc2 not work on N900?21:33
WereCatfIs that "Yes, it would not work" or "Yes, it would"? :D21:39
ShadowJKyes :)21:39
ShadowJKuserspace is a problem21:39
ShadowJKIn the context of Meego/Mer/Neomobile there's newer kernel21:39
WereCatfI am going to install Gentoo anyways, just for the sake of doing it21:39
WereCatfAnd I thought to get a modern kernel while at it21:40
ShadowJKbut Maemo userspace is kinda locked to 2.6.2821:40
WereCatfThat was kind of short-sighted from Nokia. Then again, they killed Maemo, so..21:42
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: 9/21:42
timelessWereCatf: that's unfair21:43
timelesscalling it short-sighted21:43
timelessit's more like 'by-design'21:43
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timelessa device gets certified for a network based on its complete stack (more or less)21:43
timelesschanging the kernel could easily leave it w/ an uncertified stack21:43
timelessshould nokia have provided a perpetually free certification lab for all future kernels?21:44
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timeless(that's a complete building or payment supply to rent someone else's testing/validation services)21:44
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timelessWereCatf: no modern smart phones are supported for >4 years21:46
timelessyou're an Apple user if you get 3 years21:46
lofty306so how long till i must head either to cssu or another flavor ?21:46
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DocScrutinizer51timeless: what kinda cert r u talking bout here?21:47
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* ShadowJK is still using stock diablo kernel and OS on N8x0 :P21:48
DocScrutinizer51timeless: unlike a@lot of andridiot phones where network/modem and APE kernel share same RAM, on N900 you got a built in USB 3G dongle21:49
timelessDocScrutinizer51: there are things that have to be certified, i didn't get to keep the diagrams, i left nokia :)21:49
DocScrutinizer51those 'things' (like abiltiy for 911) apply only for factory state of device21:50
DocScrutinizer51it's up to the user to deliberately break them with a kernel update21:51
DocScrutinizer51as long as you can't turn the phone into sth rogue, regarding general public21:52
lofty306dose the cssu have all the functionality of the stock and far as all chips supported?21:54
lofty306eeverything workiing?21:55
DocScrutinizer51as that'smy domain now ;-)21:55
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lofty306i  mean like thoes bits that were propriataary  and aaall21:56
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DocScrutinizer51cssu is an update21:57
lofty306i havent read  much on it other than cant go back if i do it  so imm just getting all theiinfo i can21:58
DocScrutinizer51as the name gives away21:58
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DocScrutinizer51cssu aka  maemo133721:59
lofty306thnx DocScrutinizer21:59
DocScrutinizer51were you able to go back from maemo13 to 12?22:00
lofty306ive not been paying attention for a while22:00
lofty306i geuss i never thought about it   b422:00
DocScrutinizer51you not think about going back from cssu to stock either :)22:01
lofty306and do you know what pkg the chat feature was a part of so i can deal with the notice that it no longer exists22:01
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lofty306well i just didnt want to go forward to the left  and wind up with a papereweight22:03
DocScrutinizer51ont happen22:04
lofty306kool thnx DocScrutinizer22:05
lofty306you aleviate  my fear22:05
lofty306i just like this soooo much22:05
Raimu-XYeah, I wouldn't run stock anymore since CSSU is just maemo with things fixed and features added.22:08
Raimu-Xlofty306, it just essentially took over the updating since Nokia obviously wasn't gonna fix everything they left slightly borked.22:09
lofty306so this is what i was waiting for then!22:09
lofty306get nokia outta the way and things got doone22:10
DocScrutinizer51as far as we were able22:10
lofty306so they still holld back some22:12
lofty306soome of the code22:12
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lofty306updates still push the same way ?22:14
lofty306i thinks thats my last q22:14
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DocScrutinizer51as until you get blue in the face :-D welcome22:15
lofty306i realy think that is all  the cssu i have to install from pc?22:17
DocScrutinizer51the major pita being the closed PIM+dialer integration, as you can't break out a single block and recode it like moh did with mediaplayer22:17
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DocScrutinizer51lofty306: you don't install cssu from PC22:18
lofty306u dooont?22:18
lofty306glad i assked22:18
DocScrutinizer51no, it's an update!22:18
* lofty306 looks22:19
DocScrutinizer51eeeew infobot gone again22:20
lofty306lol do i gotta grab it via apt-get or zypper  it thats still around?22:21
Raimu-Xlofty306: Nu-uh. Browse with your N900 to and click on the CSSU flavour you want to install, it'll happen then.22:23
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lofty306thats what i read  that makes sense22:24
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lofty306thnx Raimu-X , DocScrutinizer  maybe after  lunch if theppaainters dont drive me out of here22:32
lofty306thnx Raimu-X , DocScrutinizer  maybe after  lunch if the painters dont drive me out of here22:32
Raimu-XTake your time, you know.22:32
Raimu-XRead up on it.22:32
Raimu-XKnow the difference between "stable" and "testing" and think about it.22:33
lofty306i do22:34
lofty306but  will read  gotta read22:35
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DocScrutinizerI wholeheartedly recommend CSSU-stable22:39
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DocScrutinizerlofty306: ideally you'll wonder if you succeeded at all to update, after you "installed" CSSU-Stable22:42
DocScrutinizerlofty306: as in stable everything should default to "stock alike" settings, so OOTB the experience on CSSU-S should be almost indistinguishable from stock maemo.1.3.122:43
DocScrutinizeruntil you enable some of the enhancements, via gconftool or cssu-tweaker or whatever the names22:44
DocScrutinizerMHD alone is worth it22:44
DocScrutinizerlofty306: (from, too lazy to write it again :-D  )  ::22:49
DocScrutinizer# set ctl-BS to my preferred operation mode, ''also for CSSU!!''22:49
DocScrutinizer# As it seems I haven't documented it elsewhere, here are the nifty22:49
DocScrutinizer# keypress-sequences.22:49
DocScrutinizer#      (C=control, B=backspace, Cd=control-press-and-hold, Cu=control-release)22:49
DocScrutinizer# Cd,Bd = open taskswitcher; Bu,Bd = roll forward; Cu,Cd = roll-backward22:49
DocScrutinizer# Bu,Cu = select upper leftmost / Cu,Bu = keep taskswitcher open22:49
DocScrutinizer# with taskswitcher open:22:49
DocScrutinizer#  "q"|"w"|"e"\"a"|"s"|"f"... select app at that pos22:49
DocScrutinizer#  Shift+"q"|"w"... close that app22:49
DocScrutinizergconftool-2 -s \22:49
DocScrutinizer /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav -t int 522:49
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DocScrutinizer video22:52
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DocScrutinizerso friigin cool that your iPhone friends will get green of envy22:53
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav -t int 0 to revert back?23:44
DocScrutinizererr sure23:45
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DocScrutinizeror delete the whole key23:45
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: how?23:46
DocScrutinizergconftool --help23:46
lofty306thn DocScrutinizer i see the paste23:48
lofty306was doing lunch23:48
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lofty306nice  vid23:51
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lofty306just the outta focus thing of the task switcher23:58
lofty306  that23:58
lofty306err...   that >>
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