IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-01-23

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bindihow do i clear my installed apps space?02:04
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bindiflashed my device, says there's 96 MB free02:05
bindineed more for CSSU02:06
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AnthonyCan anyone help me? I want to use Anki Flash card study tool. I am considering purchase of Maemo tablet for that purpose but I have some questions about it.03:29
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AnthonyHow easy is it to upgrade n800 from os2008 to Diablo?03:35
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bindiwhat's that tweak for adding hw acceleration for menus?04:20
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lolcat`The N900 I want to buy was bougth for $774, so if they can't fix the charger port twice I will get it fixed05:25
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GeneralAntilleslolcat`, USD?05:34
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lolcat`I can purchase it for $302 so I can do a bit better than doubling my money05:42
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ebzzryHi! Is it normal for the second CSSU update listed in HAM (200+KB) to not continue, after installing the first one (more than 10 MB)?06:10
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AndrewX192"I don't want salted data (for some OCD reason) but I want it to be crack proof (at least for a while)."07:21
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luke-jrShadowJK: SpeedEvil: for me, the voice part dies too until reboot07:31
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DocScrutinizera happy new year of the dragon to all Chinese users! :-)07:53
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freddddRobot101, how do I remove the package that I installed a while back to test for you?11:30
freddddOr if anyone else knows? I recently installed that package through dpkg, how do I remove it now?11:31
SpeedEvilbindi: md5sum11:31
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pebHi folks, anyone using cron-tasks on his n900?13:43
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pebs /tasks/job/ .... sorry for that13:43
khertanpeb, nope i m not sure it s available, even it s recommanded to use alarmd , so take a look at alarmed13:44
pebkhertan, thanks for that hint. I was reading something about fcron, but the info on that is from Aug 2010 ... somehow dated.13:45
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Sazpaimon_okay so18:48
Sazpaimon_where do pictures on the cssu camera app get stored18:48
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Sazpaimon_im trying to get my girlfriend to send me a picture she just took from the N900, and she plugs it in mass storage mode and she says its not there18:48
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Sazpaimon_nevermind, turns out she didnt notice mass storage mode creates 2 devices19:08
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freemangordonping trumee21:31
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Estel_guly, ping?21:38
trumeefreemangordon: pong21:39
freemangordontrumee, are you developer?21:39
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Estel_DocScrutinizer,  ping?21:39
trumeefreemangordon: not really :)21:39
Estel_freemangordon,  any news on alternate repo?21:39
trumeefreemangordon: what info do you need?21:40
freemangordonEstel_, latest from DocScrutinizer is that he withdraws his offer to host the repo AFAIK21:40
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Estel_?!? any reasons?21:40
freemangordontrumee, I was hoping you can build the kernel fit DEBUG BT subsystem21:40
Estel_no problem, we can do it other way, but some rationale would be great21:41
freemangordonEstel_, look at the logs from previous week21:41
Estel_oh god21:41
Estel_any keywords for search?21:41
trumeefreemangordon: i have scratchbox setup here with kp49 sources. How do i build BT with debug?21:42
Estel_I haven't been on irc due to time limitations, and reading through whole logs is pita. Damn irc :P21:42
Estel_screw that, if he doesn't want, no prolblem. Will try alternatives. Sorry for bothering You, but guly is still intersted in sysadmining?21:42
trumeefreemangordon: if syslog is going to help, i can set that up on N90021:43
freemangordonEstel_, Tuesday or Wednesday, not sure. july wants to help, yeah21:43
Estel_at least, logs from maemo-ssu or maemo?21:43
freemangordontrumee, don't think so, give me a couple of minutes21:43
trumeefreemangordon: sure21:43
freemangordonI will try to find a patch to enable DEBUG BT21:43
freemangordonI've done it already, just need to find it :D21:44
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Estel_ok, foun that21:47
Estel_thanks freemangordon21:47
Estel_to be honest, reading through this log and DocScrutinizer irrationale behavior, I thinks it's bettr that he woin't be hosting it anyway21:48
Estel_I'm in touch with SD69, I hope guly work wasn't too host-oriented21:48
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freemangordontrumee, I cannot find the patch file to compile BT with DEBUG messages enabled, so I will need to make a new one. Unfortunately it will take a while (read won't happen today). I will PM you patch when I am ready , but expect it by the and of the week, have very busy program these days :).21:53
Estel_I know that CSSU problems are "kinda" solved already, but KP problems aren't.21:53
freemangordonEstel_, yeah, BT bug and wifi bug must be smashed before moving KP to CSSU21:54
trumeefreemangordon: thats fine. do you own a Nokia BH-214?21:54
Estel_also, mirroring repos is quite important for other aspect, yes? At least the community ones, for ,start21:54
freemangordonnope, if i have one I will debug it myself. My BT headset works though(platronics).21:55
freemangordontrumee ^^^21:55
trumeefreemangordon: no worries. let me know once you find a patch.21:56
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freemangordonEstel_ , I think my position was clear, i.e. I would prefer to stay with Nokia and if possible. And excluding OVI keys and KP repo case I am not aware of any outstanding problems.21:57
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freemangordonAnd KP problem will resolve itself once KP is part of CSSU21:58
freemangordonThe point is we are not on a hurry right now ;)21:58
Estel_Well, You can talk for nokia repos (community ones) stability?21:58
Estel_today, cssu problem is solved, but by mohammad, not nokia21:59
Estel_Xfade told some bullshit about errors in cssu repos21:59
freemangordonWell, it was not Nokia to create it21:59
Estel_promised to fix it in few days21:59
Estel_and of course no action was took21:59
Estel_generally I agree21:59
Estel_yet, I think it's better to act when there is no hurry22:00
freemangordonAIUI X-Fade said he will look after the issue by the end of the January22:00
Estel_than doing only "lifesavers" when thinks go bad again22:00
Estel_another issue22:00
Estel_KP was meant to be first22:00
Estel_BTW i don't belive this "errors" in cssu repos22:00
Estel_do You eperience them?:)22:00
Estel_judging by logs from last irc meeting, it's so severe, it alnost should not work at all22:01
freemangordonEstel_, the errors in question were not in CSSU repo22:01
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Estel_sounds like poor-man excuse for not assigning 2nd maintainer22:01
freemangordon*are not22:01
freemangordonthe problem is with the keys22:01
Estel_hm, ASIU from logs, he told it also about CSSU22:01
Estel_ok, maybe it's me that missunderstood it22:02
freemangordonI do not get it that way, only extras-...22:02
Estel_well, 7 months is more than enough to look into issue22:02
freemangordonso, CSSU maintainership problem is with the private/public keys22:02
Estel_first 3 months went, when he was rejecting problem existence at all22:02
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freemangordonwho? X-Fade? don't think so.22:03
freemangordonif we are talking about CSSU22:03
freemangordonextras-devel is another beer22:03
freemangordonAnd I agree no action was/is taken22:03
TNZfrHi all22:04
freemangordonBut anyway there is a solution, so there is enough time to setup things in a correct way if Nokia is to shutdoown by the end of 201222:04
TNZfrQuestion about last update of CSSU few days ago in devel depot : what's inside ?22:04
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Estel_freemangordon,  about no action I mean KP now22:05
TNZfrdidn't find the changelog22:05
Estel_many months without even checking that and requesting Pali to try useless "workarounds"22:05
Estel_then, 4 months of, erm, extensive fixing22:05
freemangordonWhich I don't believe will happen, too many orphans now22:05
Estel_yet I agree, that there is time22:06
freemangordonEstel_, I agree22:06
freemangordonBut KP is not an issue anymore22:06
freemangordonNeither is CSSU22:06
TNZfrand an other question about EAP-SIM availability on N900 ?22:06
Estel_I also don't belive Nokia will close it. Of course, there is a chance that Nokia won't exist as Nokia by end of 2012 ;)22:06
freemangordonwell, it is not funny :(22:07
freemangordonTNZfr, which mens what exactly?22:07
TNZfr1.4 million of N9 for 1.3 million of Lumia800 :D22:07
TNZfrfreemangordon: which question ?22:08
freemangordonlumia is going to save Nokia?22:08
Estel_well, let alone other things, I feel we lose at least part of momentum by sticking with Nokia, but it may be only my personal opinion. Even such small projects like Maliit feel, that they benefit from own infrastructure and independence22:08
gregoaTNZfr: cssu changelog:
Estel_sticking with sinking ship isn'5 best morale booster :P22:08
Estel_hahaha, +1 gregoa22:09
freemangordonEstel_, I don't think there is any problem work on that direction to continue, just want to point we are not on a hurry right now22:09
TNZfrgregoa: thanks22:09
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Estel_freemangordon,  100% agree, I'm not "arguing" with You ;)22:10
freemangordonEstel_, I meant the direction for Nokia independant repos22:10
Estel_just, well discussing :P22:11
freemangordonof course :)22:11
freemangordonI am not the negatron man ;)22:11
Estel_I think You're far from one ;)22:11
freemangordonAnyway, I have to leave now22:12
RST38hSo, Estel, how is your progress creating independent repository for the cssu developers?22:12
Estel_see ya freemangordon22:13
Estel_RST38h,  "negatron" word was used and You just showed up. what a "accident" ;)22:13
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Estel_well, DocScrutinizer rejected his offer to host, so my idea is to make micro-fundraise for starting few months of host, and proceed22:14
Estel_as planned. If SD69 accept that, we will start immediately.22:14
rdDoes anybody know if there are log data from the jabber client (telepathy) on the n900 ?22:17
rdI have trouble with azimuth....22:17
RST38hEstel: I see.22:18
Sicelord: none afaik. your best bet is wireshark, i think22:18
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Estel_RST38h,  if You ask me, DocScrutinizer acted irrationaly - rejected his offer after few days, when guly was almost finishing preparations - due to "lack of progress".22:21
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Estel_Well, It was volunteer offer so no rant from my side, but I though he is more... "Stable" with responsible propositios22:22
* Estel_ meant propositions22:22
Estel_in light for that, it's even better that it turned out so fast22:22
Estel_BTW, it isn't *my* creation of independent repos ;) I just talked few people together. I'm small mouse here ;)22:23
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SiceloEstel_: i think toning down your language when talking about others won't hurt. these are people you're talking about, not bots. i'm not saying current situation is fun to see, but there's more 'polite' ways to get things done.22:25
Sicelomaybe i'm off-side, but it's how i see it22:25
Estel_Sicelo, our temperaments may wary, IMO I'm using lightest words ;)22:25
Estel_anyway, "irrationale" doesn't seem to be most offdending word in my personal language.22:26
Estel_dictionary, I mean.22:26
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Estel_well, maybe translated to other non-english languages it's more offending, IDK.22:27
Estel_anyway, irrational compared to ADHD (*not* used as medical term) seems to be meritocratic opinion.22:27
Siceloi'm scared how u speak when using 'strong' language then .. i also followed ED thread, and u probably remember this post ..
Estel_excuse me if You felt offended in any way - it wasn't my purpose22:28
Sicelonope. i am not offended. i just wonder u won't offend others22:29
MohammadAGmay I ask why we're moving away from Nokia?22:29
Estel_I remember this post, and still don't get WTF, especially, that he didn't answered.22:29
Estel_"he ignored me" doesn't sound like offensive language, either.22:29
Estel_it's rather stating facts.22:29
SiceloEstel_: that's why i used the word, 'toning down'22:30
Estel_I proposed contributing my image, few days passed with many posts from his side without any note about that proposition = he ignored it. No rant. No grief. Just stating fact, without any irony.22:30
Estel_how would You tone "ignored"?22:30
Estel_"probably forget to answer"?22:31
Estel_sounds like neotalking IMO22:31
Siceloi aint going down that path Estel_. i was just making a 'friendly' suggestion22:31
Estel_no problem. I asked also without irony, if You're wondering. I was really curious, what You see offending in "ignored" ;)22:32
RST38hEstel_: You talk too much.22:32
MohammadAGHe sees offending in the way you posted22:32
MohammadAGand that ^22:33
Estel_maybe its some folklore - here in Poland, we had 50 years of "not our" goverment, that was using round words to go around what he wanted to say22:33
Estel_I agree, that it may sound harsh - sometimes - for western people. Well, I'm sugar-coating some posts, but don't have time for it on regular basis ;)22:34
Siceloi'm african :D22:34
MohammadAGMiddle eastern22:34
Estel_Let me guess, Israel?22:34
MohammadAGsays that on my profile, so I can say you guessed(?) correctly :p22:35
Estel_haven't checked22:35
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merlin1991central europe :D22:35
Estel_hm, theoretically I'm also central europe, but like to say "east from west, west from east"22:36
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Estel_which have some benefits, not only cons ;)22:36
MohammadAGthat can be vertical or horizontal center22:36
MohammadAGbe specific22:36
merlin1991MohammadAG: center center :D22:36
MohammadAGyou may use Qt::Center in future sentences22:36
Sicelohe said Poland ;)22:36
Estel_more honest relationships than regular western (europe) countries, yet more "polished" and structural than eastern(europe)l Of course, it's gneralizing a little.22:37
MohammadAGPolished, I see what you did there22:37
Siceloanyone knows how i can get out of non-booting bootmenu without removing battery?22:37
Estel_erm, I hope so, can't find correct word for it.22:37
Estel_Sicelo, tried holding power button for ~10 sec?22:38
gulyEstel_: i think you should first agree on what you need/want22:38
Estel_hey guly22:38
MohammadAGSicelo, stuff an insulator between the battery + - and the device's22:38
Siceloheh :)22:38
merlin1991lol mag :D22:38
Estel_me? I'm just guy that write much, ask RST38h ;)22:38
gulyjust what a foreigner see :)22:38
Estel_guly -> I'm in touch with SD69(only one qctive council member)22:39
Estel_as You probably know, DocScrutinizer in his (IMO, humble, etc regular sugar coating apply here) irrational decision, rejected hosng22:40
* Estel_ meant hosting22:40
gulyyes i know but he also said that a separate repo is not what they need now22:40
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  isn't any "they"22:41
gulyIIRC merlin1991 and MohammadAG agreed on this22:41
Estel_he is nor CSSU or KP team22:41
Estel_well, if You scrollback a little, we talked it with freemangordon22:41
Estel_it's looking likke that:22:41
Estel_we're not in *hurry*, i.e. everything isn't collapsing around...22:42
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Estel_Yet, it's good to proceed now, because it's better to do such thing peacefuly22:42
Estel_intead of in hurry ;)22:42
Estel_KP need external repos still.22:42
Estel_it can promote out of devel and nokia maintentance isn't acting as it should22:42
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MohammadAGI fail to see what you want to achieve Estel_22:43
Estel_KP problem may be solved by moving it to community kernel ("forking"), but it's not to happen very soon22:43
MohammadAGKP needs no extra repo22:43
Estel_MohammadAG,  see "ask the council" thread22:43
MohammadAGKP needs devs to sanitize the package and push to main CSSU thread22:43
MohammadAGPali's doing a great job, but it can't replace the stock kernel as is22:44
Estel_guly, for now, we're wanting CSSU and KP mirror, period. Accounting to roadmap, if it succeed and prove useful, whole repos mirroring.22:44
MohammadAGroadmap, ahem22:45
Estel_MohammadAG,  moving KP to other name and unifying with CSSU is great, but for repos problem, it's just ugly workaround22:45
MohammadAGwhat repos problem22:45
Estel_erm, You don't seem to be much up to date, yep?22:45
Estel_for almost a year KP can't be promoted out of devel22:45
Estel_7 months ago it was reported to X-Fade22:46
Estel_and re-reported repeatedly22:46
Estel_for 3 months he was denying problem at all.22:46
Estel_another 4 months, he is "fixing" it.22:46
DocScrutinizerEstel_: I don't like to see getiting flames for NOT supplying my own host for a project that's short on elementary things like manpower for maintenance. So your rant is rather contraproductive for your own aims22:46
MohammadAGAnd what's the cssu got to do with this?22:46
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Estel_Pali is pissed  really22:46
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Estel_DocScrutinizer,  no rant. You had right to reject at any time22:47
Estel_I'm surprised that You did after 4 days22:47
Estel_but, well. Better sooner than later. It's just my personal opinion.22:47
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Estel_MohammadAG,  CSSU problem was solved now due to Your action with keys, but it may re-appear in future (no personal attack). Also, other packages have simillar probleml.22:48
Estel_Nokia support for report is non-existant.22:48
Estel_also, sticvking with Nokia The Sinking Ship is quite edemoralizing, wasting momentum.22:49
MohammadAGhow will it reappear in the future?22:49
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MohammadAGI doubt a bus will hit me and merlin199122:49
Estel_devs are pissed off, that maintainership request are proceed in like 3 months22:49
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Estel_well, it's always better to have community control over repos, than always need to ask someone no"-wo-cooperative (Nokia, X-fade)22:50
Estel_one day, CSSU may fail to upload due to some bug22:50
Estel_happy waiting for 7 months to fix it, like with KP22:50
Estel_Maemo community is maturate enough, for a long time, to self-govern.22:50
Estel_latest meeting with Nokians showed they epic disrespect for Maemo community, council etc.22:51
Estel_read short logs from meeting.22:51
Estel_not to mention that Nokia's left hand doesn't know what right is doing.22:52
Estel_Left hand promised QT-like transfer of Maemo governing including trademarks22:53
Estel_(see "ask the council" again, with sources)22:53
Estel_right hand told us, that it's a no-go22:53
Estel_they're hopeless to cooperate, and much momentum is wasted due to this "partnership"22:53
Estel_lately, they want to unify us with appsformeego shit. Without even asking about opinion ;)22:54
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Estel_well, I'm basically re-writing what was said in sources I've pointed You to - thread with Council and logs from meeting with Nokia22:54
Estel_so excuse me for ending here ;)22:55
Estel_BTW, accepted roadmap is also on "Ask the Council" thread, overall discussion is on last few pages (less than 10).22:55
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Estel_Overall, there is quite consensus, that we should prepare independent infrastructure. *Not* in haste, but if relations with Nokia went even worse than now, we can always do LibreOffice way.22:56
Estel_Having infrastructure prepared, it's much easier.22:56
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DocScrutinizerso goddam prepare your team to drive the infra - *first*22:59
freemangordonHmm, july is right, we need to agree (once again)23:01
freemangordonJust a week ago there was an agreement that independent repo is a must. Now it turns that it is a wasted effort.23:02
Estel_just because one problem was fixed, eh?23:03
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Estel_with CSSU?23:03
Estel_until nextm appear?23:03
Estel_well, it seems that consensus is still there, just some people lost urgent interest.23:03
gulyEstel_: i read just now your question and the answer is yes23:03
gulybut, as i said, i'd like all of you to agree on something23:04
Estel_I see23:04
gulyeven if it's coke/pepsi debate :)23:04
DocScrutinizersome people never got urgent interest in a separate hardware, just in co-maintainers23:04
Estel_well, guly, project is community driven, not CSSU driven, anyway23:04
Estel_guly, Council seems supportive for idea23:04
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, so what to do, shut down the project?23:04
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DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: ???23:05
Estel_I think Pali will be happy to GTFO from buggy Nokia repos23:05
freemangordonI cannot get your point23:05
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer ^^^23:05
Estel_I'm quite sure, that other maintainers of orphaned packages too23:05
freemangordonwhat do you think should be done?23:05
Estel_brb, dinner.23:05
DocScrutinizerI don't know how I could tell you what to do, but I'm sure you were not able to shut down any project not driven and hosted in your very private universe23:06
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DocScrutinizerMY point?23:06
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freemangordona ago there was a discussion here23:07
freemangordon*a week23:07
DocScrutinizerI got some urgent business that'S incidentally not at all related to Nokia or maemo, recently. My whole point23:07
DocScrutinizerI try to help where I can and see ROI23:08
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DocScrutinizerI like Investment of time, Return like "it made a difference"23:08
DocScrutinizerI'm NOT going to nuke 30GB on my server box to make space for a repo that got no maintainer23:10
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer, I think the case with the hosting is closed, should we discuss it?23:10
DocScrutinizerEstel_ is very enthusiastic but alas that won't get work done23:11
freemangordonWell, let him try23:11
DocScrutinizerand I'm afk now again, as I got no point but a flu23:12
Estel_hm, the fun thing is that it's not *my*project. I just contribute time by "talking together* people and ideas.23:16
Estel_mirrorin repos is "ancient" idea.23:16
Estel_Troubles with Nokia haven't started yesterday.23:16
Estel_I don't understand why You don't see guly as maintainer-to-be DocScrutinizer.23:16
Estel_Not discussing hosting, as it's closed topic indeed23:17
guly(i won't give maintainer status to a one week old member)23:17
Estel_by I You mean him, or what?23:17
gulyi mean me23:18
freemangordonhe meant guly :)23:18
Estel_sorry, I'm lost. You won't give a maintainer to whom?23:18
freemangordonhmm, I think we already have maintainers, why the hell is that discussed23:18
freemangordonto july23:18
Estel_who the hell is july ;)23:19
DocScrutinizerand that's (or the lack of understanding thereof) is the crux23:19
freemangordonsorry, typo i meant guly23:19
Estel_well, CSSU got maintainers23:19
Estel_what the problem23:19
Estel_KP too.23:19
Estel_"freemangordon> hmm, I think we already have maintainers, why the hell is that discussed"23:19
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DocScrutinizeryes, and those maintainers clearly don't support that project23:20
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  I know that sysadmin != maintainer, still fail to see problem here23:20
Estel_"we aren't in urgent need" != "we don't support"23:21
Estel_expressing personal opinions != we won't maintain it, if it happens23:21
DocScrutinizerwhatever, no topic for me23:21
Estel_yea, I think so.23:22
freemangordonneed to have some sleep, nite23:23
Estel_good night!23:24
Estel_guly,  $D69 or, in wort case, me ;) will contact You via PM on forum ok?23:24
Estel_this whole irc is too time consuming ;)23:24
Estel_plan is to do micro fundraising, buy hosting for few months, and proceed with plan, if You're still interested (guly)23:25
Estel_also, special thread will be created (You will be PM'ed with it), so You'll be able to watch progress any time. it will take few days/week or so, probably23:26
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Estel_If You can prepare something "off line", it would be nice tp do it ahead23:26
Estel_freemangordon will help in any CSSU related thing about maintaining it23:27
Estel_he got same nick on forum23:27
Estel_Pali, who is also Pali on forum, will gladly help about KP things if any questions arise23:27
Estel_as for that, nothing changed23:27
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Sicelo /win 2523:27
Sicelosorry :s23:28
Estel_Pali is much easier reachable via forum than IRC, at least compared to freemangordon (who is reachable via both)23:28
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Estel_ok, see ya!23:29
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bindiwhat's the tweak for enabling hardware accelerated menus?23:32
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bindialso, my freshly flashed and just installed CSSU didn't have [thp_tweaks] in there23:33
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Z3ROC00Lanybody here ??23:37
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badcloud_hey guys23:48
badcloud_when file manager formats a usd card, does it use it for swap as well as a fat32 part?23:48
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Sicelonot afaik23:49
badcloud_I had multiple hangs when installing things in easy debian via apt-get23:50
badcloud_never had problems when I installed it on usd23:50
badcloud_right now I installed on MyDocs and am w/out usd23:50
Siceloi use mine within mydocs. no issues yet (since July) .. but if u check mailing list, these past weeks there has been discussion related to your problem23:51
badcloud_have you guys had more success w/easy debian on usd than on device memory?23:51
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Sicelou can see if that helps u23:52
badcloud_Sicelo: thanks!23:53
Sicelobadcloud_: i have never had usd.. :)23:53
badcloud_holy shit, I think that may be the key23:54
Sicelohuh? what?23:54
badcloud_nice -n 1923:54
Sicelooh :)23:54
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