IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-01-18

merlin1991edit upstart remove userland?00:02
merlin1991and just boot into xterm?00:02
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AIN2that's actually my plan, using it as a server or something at home (by running debian), once N900 simply gets too old.00:21
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DocScrutinizermeh, if he wasn't a driveby asker, I'd suggest he should look into ACT_DEAD initstate00:51
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DocScrutinizeryou already got in place all you need to have a pretty convenient to use "server" without GUI00:52
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DocScrutinizerand you even have a button to switch between "serbver" and full "gui" mode: power-button00:53
DocScrutinizerjust look into mce.ini and start to think about what you see there00:54
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trumeeMohammadAG: still alive!01:09
trumeeMohammadAG: tmo has been moaning about you.01:09
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Estel_Does anyone have idea, what *exactly* is shutdown and reboot button doing?01:30
Estel_I plan to prepare .sh rewrite, as I would like to to safely unmount TrueCrypt volumes before shutdowning01:30
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platei thnk dsme daemon is involved04:37
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platesort of the runtime init system i guess04:38
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DocScrutinizerhmm, that's probably the result of "fixing onjoin"08:00
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: the real lol is: [2012-01-17 22:44:38] *** ChanServ setzt Modus: +o TimRiker [2012-01-17 22:49:32] *** ChanServ setzt Modus: +o TimRiker  [2012-01-17 22:53:47] *** ChanServ setzt Modus: +o TimRiker08:35
DocScrutinizer50 times the last 10h08:36
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infobot- Uptime for infobot -08:36
infobotNow: 8h 53m 34s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux08:36
infobot1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 201008:36
infobot2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 200908:36
infobot3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 200908:36
DocScrutinizerbefore somebody ponders "testing" though: please don't, the "problem" is not yet "fixed"08:37
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MohammadAGtrumee: Really? Thought they all forgot about me :p10:33
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ruskiehmm anyone know if it's possible to use the normal camera on the n900 as a webcam?10:48
ruskieor for jingle video calls atleast10:48
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CokeMaemo's running on the N9 right? I'm trying to open a terminal, for that I need something called developer mode. I try to turn it on, it prompts me to install something, I say yes and then it says cancelled, installation interrupted, try again? and on it goes11:49
CokeI guess my short question is: how do I get a terminal?11:49
Cokethe terminal is the single most important application on my phone, more important than the actual phone function.11:49
Cokedeveloper-mode installation interrupted.11:50
Cokeis there a way to get the old/proper maemo on this or make it do what the N900 did out of the box?11:51
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crashanddieso, is there any phone that could match the n950? Or the n900 for that matter, but with a fresher OS and hardware?12:04
crashanddieI still have my amsterdam n900, but it just feels sluggish12:04
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petteriCoke: remember reading that someone could not install develpor mode with wifi, maybe try with 3g12:08
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petterisorry, wrong channel12:09
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[DarkGUNMAN]Is there a version of DirectFB that can be implemented for maemo in order to run PhoneME Advanced?14:20
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[DarkGUNMAN]The maintainer of the linux arm build might be able to do an X11 version but that might never happen, so I thought I'd see if Directfb could be implemented to meet this version of PhoneMe's dependancies14:22
ShadowJKjust the name DirectFB makes it sound like something that's incompatible with everything else14:27
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jonwilI am not a GPU expert but I bet a DirectFB implementation on the N900/N950/N9 would require information about the PowerVR GPU in the phones that the community does not have14:39
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fizzieUnless I misremember, DirectFB itself can run on top of SDL or X11, though maybe not well, and certainly not very acceleratedly.14:56
hiemanshubut why would anyone want to run an OS written using Java? we already have android and dalvik14:58
ShadowJKi'm not sure I'd call it java14:59
ShadowJKI mean: I'm not sure I'd call it an os14:59
ShadowJKA couple of years ago the biggest reason to want java me was to run Opera15:00
ShadowJKBut now there's native port :)15:00
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jonwilI seriously doubt there is anything written in JavaME that is worth running on Maemo15:03
ShadowJKThe sims!15:03
ShadowJKdoes opera mini still exist? it'd be neat on N8x0 I'd think15:05
auenfopera mobile has turbo mode, which was the main feature of mini?15:11
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[DarkGUNMAN]yep.. opera mini still exists. currently can only be run through microemulator on top of javaSE, hence the reason I'd like to get PhoneME working.15:31
[DarkGUNMAN]builds for linux arm are available at
[DarkGUNMAN]phoneme feature cldc appears to work but I don't know the command line to test operamini15:33
[DarkGUNMAN]phoneme feature needs directfb. contacted the maintainer to see if aything coould be done.15:34
[DarkGUNMAN]sorry that should be phoneme advancedgetting directfb to run on maemo might be a better option15:34
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[DarkGUNMAN]worth posting in TMO for ideas?15:36
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Macerso.. did sopa pass yet?16:01
Macernokia is going to shut down sites that say "maemo"16:01
Maceror sites that were not allowed in writing to use their logo16:02
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Macersopa is great16:10
Macernow 99% of the internet will simply encrypt end to end16:10
chem|stMacer: that would be awesome but I doubt it16:10
Maceri don't16:10
Macerit is like dvd encryption.. it will have little or no effect because in a day people will find a way around anything they do16:11
Macerand i mean seriously.. are these producers and actors and actresses starving to death?16:11
chem|stlol nope16:11
Maceri mean.. did they have to get like.. grade b steak or something? :)16:12
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Maceri am reminded of the south park episode about downloading mp3s16:12
Macerwhere Master P's son couldn't get the island he wanted16:12
chem|stmost do not even know how much the steak from last night was...16:12
Macerbut i mean... whenever they take these extreme measures it always backfires.. i said it earlier.. they are only provoking something to be released that is single click full end to end encryption16:13
chem|stits like streisand-effect16:13
Macerand the creation of a fully encrypted sub-internet16:13
Macerwith its own public p2p encrypted dns system16:14
Macerthey can't blame the isp since it will be wall to wall.. and they can't inspect encrypted pkts16:14
chem|stshould setup a concentrator right now!16:14
Maceryeah.. better get tor going before the lamers block the tor site16:15
Maceri honestly want to set up tor.. i used it once and it was laggy.. but probably because it goes through some pretty crappy connections16:15
chem|stsame here16:15
Macerit's an awesome idea tho16:16
Maceri mean if everybody jumped on board with it .. it would work quite well16:16
Macerbut the configuration can be a bit of a pain16:16
chem|stonion and tor are awesome ideas16:16
Maceryeah.. i will set it up on friday and start preparing things16:16
Gh0stymy biggest problem with them ...16:16
MacerGh0sty: poor route selection? :)16:17
chem|stsetting it up remotely and having remote access to my host is a pain...16:17
Macersetting it up at all is a pain.. from teh server side16:17
Gh0styno ... that I cannot be held responsible for traffic comming from my network doing illegal stuff16:17
Macerif you wanted to tor ssh or whatever16:17
Gh0stysince other route their 'obscure traffic' through my node16:17
MacerGh0sty: exactly16:17
Macerit is unenforcable16:17
Macerthey are probably just mainly targeting the big targets16:18
Macerlike piratebay and demonoid16:18
Macernewzbin... etc16:18
Macerall news servers are gone :)16:18
Macerno not yet16:18
Macerit still has to pass.. and then the cases would have to go to court16:18
chem|stwe should fork as much as possible16:19
Macerso now US citizens have to pay tax dollars in an already bad economy for an overabundance of court cases16:19
Macerbeceause once it opens it is going to be non-stop law suit after law suit.. like the patent crap going on16:19
crashanddiehow is that different from any time before?16:19
Macerexcept on a much larger scale16:19
crashanddieThe US has always been about stupid court cases16:20
crashanddieEven when there's no one around to pay for it16:20
Macerhahah.. yeah.. i guess that is a fair point16:20
Macerbut it is just going to be out of hand16:20
Macerway worse than it already is16:20
Macerpeople are going to be suing for minute pictures that may or may not be on a website16:20
Macerit will take months and tons of court hearings to even determine if said picture was on the site.. then more months and hearings to figure out if they infringed.. etc16:21
crashanddieGh0sty, simply don't be an output node16:21
Macercrashanddie: yeah... just let him be a leech lol16:21
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crashanddieDarknets aren't about leeching16:22
Macerheh. i was joking16:22
Maceris there a chrome plugin for tor?16:22
crashanddiewhy would you need a plugin?16:22
crashanddieJust use it as a proxy16:22
Macerit has been a long time since i have used it16:22
Veggenwell, neither are filesharing, necessarily. Tons of torrents are distributed with perfectly legal downloadable material.16:23
MacerVeggen: and torrent pkts are encrypted already anyways16:23
Macercrashanddie: can you set the bandwidth limit if you are a node?16:24
Macerit would be nice if it could kind of work p2p where it threads data through multiple nodes and reconstructs it16:24
Macerso you don't feel like you are proxied through some ethopian's 56K modem16:24
crashanddieMacer, of course16:25
crashanddieMacer, I run 3 i2p nodes, 2 of those are permanent routes only16:25
crashanddiemeaning, they don't consume any data, they just provide anonymity for others16:26
MohammadAGGood news, I found my lost N90016:28
MohammadAGBad news, it was what made the car seat slide so easily16:28
Macerthose nokia phone tracks were well built :)16:28
Macerlike silk16:28
MohammadAGthe battery cover is a wreck16:28
Maceris that all?16:29
MohammadAGthe rest  is intact16:29
MohammadAGyep, it was lying on the screen16:29
Maceryou have a spare?16:29
MohammadAGthe DDP one16:29
Maceri was about to say. i have a spare battery cover if you need one but it is an original one16:29
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MohammadAGthis is the second battery cover :P16:30
Macerwell quit breaking them :)16:30
Macerat least the screen didn't get gouged16:31
MohammadAGyeah, if it was top-up the screen would've been damaged totally16:32
MohammadAGthis is a car seat that's been slid at least 20 times16:32
MohammadAGactually the battery cover isn't that bad either16:32
MohammadAGthe kickstand/camera chrome is what's f'd16:33
MohammadAGthe slider mech is tight as hell16:34
MohammadAGfeels good16:34
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MohammadAGhmm, I see about 3 pages of the CSSU thread are about me...16:44
andre__MohammadAG: and your conclusion after reading that is...?16:45
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MohammadAGandre__, I went MIA when I shouldn't have16:46
andre__MohammadAG, question is how to avoid the same problems if that happens again. e.g. sharing responsibility.16:47
MohammadAGandre__, it won't happen again16:48
andre__...and I ask you for the sake of the CSSU project to really consider that.16:48
MohammadAGbut yes, I'll have a backup option16:48
andre__MohammadAG, I understand how you mean "it won't happen again", but it's really not you deciding when a bus hits you ;-)16:49
andre__MohammadAG: there's enough external reasons. I remember a project dying because the maintainer had to take (long time) care of sick family members16:49
andre__so thanks for planning to share the responsibility. and crossing fingers that you'll actually do it soon.16:50
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[DarkGUNMAN]quick question, can anyone enable directfb for maemo in order to try phoneme advanced?16:54
[DarkGUNMAN]error message i get when trying cldc:16:54
[DarkGUNMAN]bin/cvm: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory16:55
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[DarkGUNMAN]thought i'd ask here first incase there was anything worth adding to an existing thread or staring one new on tmo17:00
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fredrinruskie, yes17:03
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damagedsplinehi, a question regarding the Extras-Assistant... i uploaded waze sources, but nothing happens. it looks its been building it since December.
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merlin1991damagedspline: when did you upload?19:27
merlin1991also did you upload version 0.0.4?19:27
merlin1991because that build failed on the 20.12.2011 (see )19:28
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damagedsplinemerlin1991: i uploaded v0.0.4 last month. i didnt work so i let it be19:41
damagedsplinenow i retried with the new version19:41
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damagedsplineanyway, now its v0.0.519:42
damagedsplineif u look at the link i sent before u see that the build from last month is still running19:43
damagedsplineit might be the reason why it wont accept the new sources19:43
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MohammadAGgnome shell ftw19:59
MohammadAGwell, compared with unity anyway19:59
MohammadAGdamagedspline, ohai19:59
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damagedsplinehi MAG20:11
damagedsplinei'm trying to deal with the extras-assistant...20:12
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MohammadAGdamagedspline, uploaded 0.0.5?20:15
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MohammadAGit says build failed20:15
MohammadAGmoo RST38h20:15
damagedsplinev0.0.4 is still building since december20:16
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damagedsplinemag, see the last status @
damagedsplinei tried uploading the new sources for v0.0.5 but it wouldnt let me20:17
damagedsplineupload completed succesfuly, but adding to queue button does not add to queue20:18
damagedsplineconfusing :)20:19
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MohammadAGuse dput :p20:22
MohammadAGIt says building then build failed20:22
MohammadAGit can't be stuck that long20:22
damagedsplineMohammadAG, who know, maybe i broke record for longest maemo build ever :)20:24
MohammadAGit says build failed right before building20:24
MohammadAGsame minute20:24
MohammadAGsubmit 0.0.5 again and wait20:24
damagedsplineMohammadAG, the logs u sent were of v0.0.4 from last month...20:25
damagedsplinei'll try upload agian20:26
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damagedsplineMohammadAG, files moved to autobuilder queue yet they are no there...20:32
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damagedsplineu can verify it by looking at the cauldron threads, no waze build in january20:33
damagedsplineMohammadAG, anyhow, my time is up for today.... ttl20:34
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MohammadAGX-Fade, can you check that for him ^?20:47
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crashanddiesup MohammadAG21:30
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WizzupIs maemo participating in SOPA stuff or is it just down?21:31
MohammadAGnothing much crashanddie, just uni I guess :/21:31
mgedmindoes it return 503 or something else?21:31
crashanddieWizzup, not down here21:32
crashanddieMohammadAG, what about all the projects?21:32
crashanddieHow are those coming along?21:32
Wizzupcrashanddie: blank page21:32
crashanddieWizzup, well, works from here :) maybe SOPA was a bit more effective than planned?21:33
MohammadAGcrashanddie, not that good sadly21:33
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MohammadAGapparently time is a bit scarce when you have uni21:33
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MohammadAGget me a job and I'll take a break after this year's uni21:33
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crashanddieI might be starting my own company next year21:35
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crashanddieYes and no21:35
crashanddieI'm writing an application server21:35
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crashanddieThe main binary is extremely small, maybe 300 or 400kB21:36
crashanddiebut it loads modules, each module provides features21:36
MohammadAGsounds interesting21:37
crashanddieone provides basic network, another uses that one to provide TCP, then another one uses that to provide HTTP21:37
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crashanddieI'm able to have multiple module versions loaded into memory at the same time21:37
crashanddieand thus, update the binaries while the app is running21:37
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crashanddieFull Boost support, C++0x-enabled, automake, autoconf, doxygen and fully UML-documented.21:38
MohammadAGwait, you're done with this?21:38
crashanddieModules can be written either in C++ or Python, both languages have an API available21:38
crashanddieYeah, not far from it.21:38
crashanddieModule management is done, I'm just writing modules21:38
crashanddieAm able to handle voip calls, and have a web interface for configuration21:39
crashanddieUsing loads of design patterns, polymorphism is king, really good fun stuff.21:39
crashanddieOh, and also unit testing and everything that goes with it21:40
crashanddieso just make -j4 check21:40
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crashanddieand I get a report to tell me what works and what doesn't.21:40
crashanddieI've applied test-driven development, meaning I write the unit test before the class :P21:41
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crashanddiewhich is quite the change from my extreme-developer habits21:41
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crashanddieSo I'm just going to see how this goes, and I might sprout a company to sell support for it21:42
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crashanddieCurrent list of features: module validation: A new module that hasn't been validated gets spawned into a new process, and gets tested for robustness. All kinds of shit is thrown at all the methods and functions, and we try to make it crash21:43
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crashanddieIf it holds up, it's loaded into whatever context it needs to be loaded: A module can either have its own thread, its own process, or simply time share the main binary's thread.21:44
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crashanddieIPC is implemented through zeromq, which means that it supports clustering over different servers or VMs21:45
crashanddieRoadmap includes EC2 support, so an instance can load up its own EC2 VMs when required21:45
crashanddieinternal communications is handled over google's protocol buffers21:46
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crashanddiepersistence can be handled either through mysql or mongodb21:47
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crashanddieBasically, I'm writing a contender to J2EE.21:48
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crashanddieMohammadAG, so yeah, if it takes off, you definitely get to be my office bitch :P21:49
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, that sounds awesome :D21:51
MohammadAGthe part before the last sentence, I'm not sure if that's good :P21:51
crashanddieNo no, I have my quote.21:51
crashanddie[20:49:29] <crashanddie> MohammadAG, so yeah, if it takes off, you definitely get to be my office bitch :P21:51
crashanddie[20:50:51] <MohammadAG> crashanddie, that sounds awesome :D21:51
crashanddieThank you very much.21:51
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* crashanddie ponders vandalising the /topic21:52
crashanddiegoing home21:56
crashanddieI'll send you a link when I release publicly, MohammadAG21:56
MohammadAGthanks for the kind(?) words crashanddie :P21:56
crashanddieProbably some time this summer will be my first public release21:56
* MohammadAG updates his facebook details to Office bitch at crashanddie's21:56
crashanddieI doubt that'll be the name of the company21:56
crashanddieBut I'll give you business cards with that name on it :P21:57
MohammadAGcrashanddie's fries rhymes21:57
MohammadAGidk why I thought of that21:57
crashanddieprobably my belgian side showing21:57
crashanddie(fries, and all)21:57
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* DocScrutinizer feels hungry now22:00
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crashanddieleaving the office22:07
crashanddielater all22:07
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jonneso my phone seems stuck on applying the new cssu22:23
jonnecan't even turn it off22:23
jonnewhat should i do?22:24
jonnestrangely the screen turns off and on fine when i open the keyboard or use the switch on the side22:24
mgedminyou ought to be able to turn it off by holding down power for a long time, but if you do that (or pull the battery) in the middle of an update, I'd be afraid it won't boot22:24
jonnewhich it usually doesn't do quite as well under load22:25
* mgedmin nevers installed the cssu in fear something might break...22:25
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jonneis there a way to get to tty1 without using the terminal application?22:25
mgedminyou can't get to tty1 even with the terminal app22:26
mgedmindo you have openssh on it?  is it online?22:26
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jonneno, can't even ping it22:26
jonnescreen says it's connected, but it's frozen22:27
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mgedminwell, pinging my n900 was never exactly reliable...22:27
jonnethe screen is frozen, but it seems like it should still react to keyboard commands22:27
mgedmindue to wifi power savings modes or whatever22:27
mgedminwish I had any familiarity with the CSSU and could help you22:27
jonnessh is pretty reliable when it's working22:27
mgedmingive it some more time just in case, then pull the battery?22:27
mgedminlucky you with your good access point :)22:28
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jonnetomato firmware, baby :p22:28
jonnei'll try and hold the power button for like 30 seconds, then pull battery and hope for the best22:28
mgedminworst case, you can always reflash22:29
* mgedmin has openwrt backfire on his ap/router, his n9 still ignores the first 20 or so pings -- seems to be checking for ARP requests infrequently?22:29
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jonnehow is the n9, btw? I want it so bad but i'm waiting for the white one to come out here22:31
jonnescreen seems to have changed a bit, maybe i should let it sit for a while before pulling the battery22:32
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mgedminthe n9 is the best thing ever created on this Earth22:41
mgedmin(it has its own problems, of course)22:41
fralsjonne: where is "here"? afaiu white is not coming to all regions n9 is released in22:45
fralsmgedmin: im totally quoting you on that22:45
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mgedminfeel free22:45
mgedminvery rarely a piece of hardware evokes spontaneous ♥ feelings in me22:47
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RST38hWhat are x?Y feelings?22:48
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fralsRST38h: heart symbol22:49
* RST38h sees funny stuff in IRCII22:49
RST38hmgedmin: You should try Lumia 800! Makes for a nice inversion of the heart symbol.22:50
mgedminRST38h, set up UTF-8, come live with us in the 21st century22:51
mgedminNokia sent me an email offering a developer Lumia 800.  I couldn't come up with any use for it, so I ignored it.22:51
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jonnefrals : Belgium22:53
jonneI asked the Nokia twitter account for Belgium if they knew when/if it ever comes out here, and they didn't know22:54
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jonneif it doesn't come out in like a month or 2 i'll just get the black one then, hopefully the price will have dropped a bit too22:54
* jonne pulls out the battery22:55
fralsjonne: Hmm, is the Lumia being advertised there?22:55
jonnei'm pretty successful at avoiding ads in general, I don't know, tbh22:55
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jonnethey're doing a launch event in a few days22:55
Paliping lxp122:56
jonnebut i don't want WP7, I'd rather get android22:56
jonneor maybe samsung's new bada/tizen thing22:56
fralsjust asking because it might affect wether or not the white n9 would be sold22:56
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jonneyeah, i'm waiting a few months either way, i'm low on cash right now after traveling22:57
jonne€600 ain't nothing22:58
Corsacthe white n9 is supposed to arrive for christmas, isn't it?22:58
jonnei know it's been out in finland for a while22:59
jonnedon't know about anywhere else22:59
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jonnecouldn't find a decent overview anywhere22:59
jonnephone seems to boot ok22:59
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jonneit hung my phone while updating, RST38h be careful23:00
jonnestill finding out if anything broke23:00
RST38hmgedmin: I accepted. Now waiting for someone to jailbreak it.23:01
RST38hmgedmin: It is pretty dismal, even compared to supposedly "dead" Harmattan23:01
RST38hgconftool-2: I've been haxored to use xml::/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults as the config source.23:01
mgedminRST38h, s/dead/murdered/23:02
RST38hmgedmin: still dead, at the end =(23:02
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RST38hmgedmin: It is especially cute how Harmattan Ovi has more useful apps than WP7 app store23:02
mgedminalthough releases are still coming out (PR1.1, the upcoming PR1.2)... zombie?23:02
mgedminTizen has more market share than WP7, thanks to the Bada merger ;)23:03
RST38hmore like guerilla warfare from within Nokia, from the looks of it23:03
merlin1991RST38h: cssu what?23:03
RST38hI mean, some bright light at marketing came up with the "Lumia" name...23:03
jonnecssu update seems to have been successful, despite it hanging in the middle of the process23:03
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