IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-11-26

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psycho_oreoswhats special about that kernel?00:54
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luke-jrpsycho_oreos: GCC 4.5?\01:20
luke-jr76M     /lib/modules/
luke-jr7.5M    /lib/modules/
psycho_oreosahh only built on newer GCC. but meh, pk4201:20
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MohammadAGFucking bouncer01:29
psycho_oreosIRC bouncer?01:32
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MohammadAGIts been down for two days01:36
MohammadAGAnd the damn iphone doesnt stay connected01:36
MohammadAGTbh, I miss the Nokia experience01:37
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: well, it's got patchset too01:37
MohammadAGGoing back to my N900 tomorrow01:37
luke-jrMohammadAG: N900 XChat doesn't stay connected either :P01:37
MohammadAGluke-jr: It does01:37
MohammadAGColoquy (iphone irc client) disconnects after 10 minutes of not havin the window active01:38
MohammadAGUsually i like to keep irc running in the background01:38
luke-jrnot really. I don't have signal persistent enough :P01:38
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MohammadAGiOS is fun01:39
luke-jrbut srsly, why are my modules dir 10 times the size? :x01:39
MohammadAGThe tweaks are fun01:39
MohammadAGBut its too restrictrd01:39
MohammadAGAnd autocorrect only works when you dont want it to01:40
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: strip01:41
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: Family channel, I mean seriously... :p01:42
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: how to strip .ko?01:42
DocScrutinizerdunno, does it not work for .ko?01:42
MohammadAGIt does01:43
MohammadAG.ko is afterall a glorified .o01:43
DocScrutinizer>>GNU  strip  discards  all  symbols  from object files objfile. ...<<01:44
luke-jrI'd expect it to strip stuff Linux needs to load it01:44
luke-jrsurprised there's no "right way" to strip kmods01:45
MohammadAGstrip is the right way01:45
DocScrutinizerwell, I guess there's a linker / compiler option01:45
MohammadAGIt's what kernel packages use in build scripts01:46
DocScrutinizerto not even create cruft01:46
DocScrutinizercd /lib/modules; strip *01:47
DocScrutinizeractually you may want to add some parameters to strip01:48
DocScrutinizerI'm sure you know about man01:48
luke-jr'strip' by itself makes them unloadable, according to Google results01:51
luke-jr--strip-debug reduces mine to 6 MB01:51
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SpeedEvil - interesting01:58
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, the picture has dualcore cortex A(02:07
ShadowJKwhich doesn't exist as dual core02:07
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SpeedEvilDetails, Shcmetails.02:08
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ShadowJKdoesn't mention pricepoint..02:08
ShadowJKAren't these hw specs kinda similar to highend samsung or lg now?02:09
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SpeedEvilSomewhat, yes.02:09
SpeedEvilAnd price will be interesting.02:09
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ShadowJKWell... would they be able to go much lower than, say, HTC and Huawei?02:12
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* SpeedEvil orders too much from DX.02:12
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SpeedEvilIdly wondering from the perspecive of smaller makers perhaps being more willing to open up for small 'bulk' orders.02:16
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ShadowJKWell Cordia tried that02:31
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: LOL, 4 GB disk03:22
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psycho_oreosany of you guys with American based N900 and you flashed using global firmware? I need to find out if your osso-product-info shows <unknown> for fields: OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_NAME, OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_FULL_NAME, OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION, and OSSO_VERSION03:34
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: there is no American N90003:35
psycho_oreosluke-jr, I meant if you bought your N900 in US03:35
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: I forget where mine was mailed from.03:35
luke-jrI'm not aware of N900 ever being sold IN the US…03:36
luke-jrOSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_NAME='Maemo 5'03:36
luke-jrthere is no OSSO_VERSION03:36
luke-jroh wait03:36
psycho_oreosluke-jr, apparently the owner I bought the third N900 from bought it from Amazon03:36
luke-jrAmazon is online :p03:36
psycho_oreosOSSO_PRODUCT_REGION='English America' as opposed to my two other N900 OSSO_PRODUCT_REGION='Britain'03:37
psycho_oreoshmm funny that03:37
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luke-jris the "bootmenu" package safe?03:45
psycho_oreosdepends on what packages you use depends on it to me its safe03:50
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psycho_oreosdbus can really be bitchy sometimes >:?03:52
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: dbus can really be bitchy sometimes >:|03:52
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: I'm just worried I won't be able to boot03:53
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psycho_oreosluke-jr, I suppose it depends on your setup. On my single boot (just pure maemo environment) I have no issues03:53
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luke-jrpsycho_oreos: why would you install bootmenu on a single boot?03:54
psycho_oreosluke-jr, I'm talking about fanoush's bootmenu which backupmenu for instance depends on it03:55
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psycho_oreosunless you're talking about multiboot or uboot which would be different imo03:55
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Like I care - if it can take 32G SD03:55
luke-jrI'm talking about the Maemo pkg03:55
luke-jrSpeedEvil: 32 GB + 32 GB = 64 GB03:55
psycho_oreosI don't know which Maemo package you're referring to.03:56
luke-jr# aptitude search bootmenu03:58
luke-jrp   bootmenu                                   - Fanoush's Boot Menu03:58
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psycho_oreosyeah that's the exact same one that I was referring to, if you know about backupmenu by robbiethe1st, that backupmenu for instance relies on bootmenu04:00
luke-jrso if I install that, I should be safe to reboot? <.<04:01
psycho_oreosagain I don't know what your setup is like so I can't say for certain.. you can try after you have created a backup of your setup04:01
luke-jrtoo lazy04:02
* luke-jr crosses fingers04:02
Maceri have to find out what ports this synology uses04:02
Macerand if i can set up a relay04:02
jacekowskiMacer: what are you doing?04:02
Macersetting up the mail server on it04:03
Maceri need a real ssl cert04:03
jacekowski25 and 11004:03
* luke-jr loves having etckeeper on his N90004:03
Macerfor ssl?04:03
jacekowskiand it's called TLS04:03
Maceri though imaps used ssl on a different port04:03
jacekowskissl is obsolete04:03
Macer485 or something04:03
pabs3luke-jr: how'd you get that?04:03
jacekowskistarttls is current thing04:04
jacekowskiand that works over the same port04:04
Macerjacekowski: i see04:04
luke-jrpabs3: I think I stole a Debian pkg, found a compatible git, and installed some GNU tools04:04
jacekowskijacekowski:~/pliki/RE# nc 2504:04
jacekowski220 ESMTP Postfix04:04
jacekowskiEHLO jacekowski.org04:04
jacekowskifor ESMTP for example04:05
luke-jrpabs3: the git was the hard part.04:05
jacekowskiyou connect to server, introduce yourself and then server responds if it can do STARTTLS04:05
luke-jrgit-core_1.6.6-1maemo1_armel.deb <-- what I ended up using04:05
Macerjacekowski: that's on the synology?04:05
Macernice let me try it04:05
pabs3luke-jr: for a second there I thought you were running Debian instead of Maemo :)04:05
jacekowskiif it can, you can ask it to enable encryption by issuing STARTTLS command04:05
Macerso i just need 25 and 110 to hit the ds?04:05
jacekowskiunless you want imap as well04:05
Maceri do04:06
luke-jrpabs3: well, I'm working on switching entirely to Gentoo04:06
Macerwhat port is imap?04:06
jacekowskithen you need 143 as well04:06
luke-jrI have a custom Subversion-based "etckeeper" on Gentoo atm04:06
luke-jrnot happy with etckeeper's portage support04:06
Maceroh lord04:07
jacekowskihmm, what's the point of etckeeper in maemo04:08
jacekowskiwhen all shit is stored in ~ anyways04:08
jacekowskiall important user configurable shit04:08
luke-jrjacekowski: I never replace ~04:08
luke-jrbut I do tweak /etc sometimes04:08
luke-jrlike the bluez config04:08
luke-jrN900's default sucks04:09
jacekowskiit works04:09
luke-jrdoes it?04:09
luke-jrcan you use the GPS over BT?04:09
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Macerdamn rekonq sucks04:10
jacekowskimy n900 had builtin gps04:10
Macerit is like the thing that would be awesome if it worked :)04:10
jacekowskiMacer: well, chrome04:10
Macerchromium ;)04:10
Maceris there an official chrome for ubuntu?04:10
jacekowskiMacer: it's all based on KHTML04:10
Maceri usually just install chromium04:10
luke-jrMacer: I used rekonq for a bit.04:10
Macerjacekowski: yeah but for some reason rekonq doesn't work well04:11
jacekowskipart of konqueror04:11
luke-jrjacekowski: you're thinking backward.04:11
luke-jrjacekowski: I want to use the N900's GPS from a full laptop.04:11
jacekowskiluke-jr: somebody made software for that04:11
luke-jrso N900 needs to say "I'm a GPS"04:11
jacekowskican't remember who was it04:11
luke-jrjacekowski: might be remembering me04:11
jacekowskibut it's a phone04:11
jacekowskinot a gps04:11
luke-jrthough I never bothered to release it properly04:11
luke-jrjacekowski: no, it isn't a phone04:11
jacekowskiso you are asking your tablet to lie04:12
luke-jrN900 is more GPS than phone04:12
luke-jrjacekowski: N900 should be advertising itself as a "mobile computer" on BT04:12
luke-jrwith GPS as a feature04:12
Macerjacekowski: so just forward 25, 110, 143 to the synology and just set up the n900 with tls enabled and life will be better ? :)04:13
jacekowskiwell, either 110 or 14304:14
jacekowskiyou don't need both04:14
Macerjacekowski: you never know if there is a client with a broken imap ;)04:16
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luke-jryay, Gentoo booting once again!04:36
luke-jr… or not :x04:36
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luke-jrtotal filesystem corruption04:56
nox-o_O  gentoo on n900?05:00
luke-jrwell, it WAS05:01
luke-jruntil something went and corrupted everything x.x05:01
luke-jrI think I need to reformat now05:03
nox-compiling on the poor little cpu doesnt sound like fun to me anyway05:04
nox-still, crazy stuff... :)05:05
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nox-(that gentoo runs, not that yours is corrupted...)05:05
luke-jronly linking05:06
luke-jrI use distcc :p05:06
nox-anyway, bbl05:07
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ShadowJKluke-jr, disable fsck06:45
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ShadowJKBecause ext* assumes you have a harddrive06:46
luke-jrwithout fsck it'll certainly corrupt06:46
ShadowJKIt actually keeps it amazingly consisten just with ext3+journal06:46
ShadowJKOn harddrive at powerloss you lose like 512 bytes, or 4k, or the last x * 4k sectors written06:47
luke-jrjournal still needs fsck to recover06:47
luke-jrand journal will shorten SSD lifetime06:47
ShadowJKOn flash you lose that 512b, plus additional 128-512k randomly chosen sectors that get old data..06:47
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ShadowJKIdeally you'd have a gigantic journal :)06:48
luke-jrwell, the journal issues is why I use ext2, not ext306:48
ShadowJKI don't think it's an issue06:48
luke-jryes, becasue the journal assumes things get written in order06:48
ShadowJKand on boot the kernel rewrites whatever is in the journal, and things tend to work out better06:49
ShadowJKeven better would be nilfs2 or LogFS.. though nilfs2 would chew through battery06:50
luke-jrand would require backporting, testing, etc06:50
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ShadowJKyeah there's that :P06:51
luke-jrext2 worked well for years06:51
luke-jrwhich makes me suspect it's a booting issue06:51
luke-jrwith this new kernel06:51
luke-jrI couldn't boot Maemo with it, either06:51
luke-jrnfc why06:51
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Siceloluke-jr: gps to laptop >> columbus08:27
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Sicelo4:11 < luke-jr> jacekowski: I want to use the N900's GPS from a full laptop.08:43
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Sicelook. maybe didn't get u08:44
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Sicelowhat i meant is that columbus is the package that does that08:48
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luke-jrcan't seem to find the code08:54
Siceloiirc it was developed by alterego08:56
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Macertelnetting to a port should show something if a service is running right?12:49
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raptor67682hello. is there  a phone that has voice reconigtion, like maemo?12:53
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psycho_oreosvoice recognition like maemo? wtf?13:00
gggsMacer: depends if it's dropped/denied via firewall rules13:00
gggsMacer: try nmap13:01
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M4rtinKpocket sphinx ?13:19
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Macerfor the life of me i can't find out why smtp won't connect on this synology15:04
Macernor does tls imap :-P15:04
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DocScrutinizerM4rtinK: yeah, or even voicetogoog15:45
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DocScrutinizerwell, seems that'S only on maemo6 for now15:45
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DocScrutinizeranyway raptor67682 's question sounds quite upside-down15:46
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Paliping X-Fade15:49
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders if/when Siri/theGoogle$thing will implement a pull feature, I.E. mic activation from remote, so Siri can listen whenever it thinks it's worth it ;-D15:49
* DocScrutinizer moos @ Pali15:49
Pali~seen X-Fade15:49
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego, last said: 'Can somebody remind me again how to backup your messages/conversations in harmattan? Where were they stored again?'.15:49
freemangordonPali, wish you luck15:50
DocScrutinizerhey freemangordon15:50
freemangordonseems no hen developers left , it is only you15:51
Paliwhere is X-Fade?15:52
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: if you want to chat with H-E-N hardcore kernel hackers you should've joined ##mhd since some days. You ignored all my invites, now paul said >gtg,bbl< some 15min ago15:52
freemangordonwho knows15:52
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freemangordonsorry, saw the invitations next day15:52
freemangordoni've just have changed my irc client15:53
freemangordonBTW I still don't know which is the best IRC client to use15:53
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer, what was the hen channel?15:57
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PaliDocScrutinizer: now I found some bq2415x kernel driver from Nokia:
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PaliDocScrutinizer: do you know about it?16:11
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DocScrutinizeryes, I heard about it ans somewhat looked into it16:12
DocScrutinizerhaven't completely analyzed it but it seems it still relies on undocumented interaction with some bme shit16:13
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Palihere is source code:
PaliI see that this only export functions via /dev/ file16:14
freemangordonPali, did you tyr last patch i've sent?16:14
Palifreemangordon: sorry not yet16:14
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PaliNow I'm compiling it16:16
DocScrutinizerPali: also on a 30s glance to that patch I spot things like "bq2415x_chg_low(true)" which again make me think Nokia only did the bare minimum they thought they might find useful for their special usecase - as usual16:16
merlin1991freemangordon: did you work on ham already?16:17
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DocScrutinizercase BQ2415X_CHG_NORM:              res = bq2415x_chg_low(false);16:17
freemangordoni'm still fighting kp stuff16:17
DocScrutinizerfriggin sh*t I don't want to choose from charge-low and charge-normal, I want to control charge current to the last digit that bq24150 allows16:18
DocScrutinizeror compare the implementation of >>bq2415x_set_current_limit(struct regulator_dev *rdev, int min_uA, int max_uA)<< with what my suggested API specifies16:20
DocScrutinizerand I bet the whole thing doesn't even touch boostmode16:21
Paliit is not better to fix that existing nokias driver instead writing new?16:23
SpeedEvilThe existing hostmode stuff on the n900 is fragmentary.16:23
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DocScrutinizerPali: no, see: >>MODULE_DESCRIPTION("TI BQ24153/6 one-cell Li-Ion charger driver");<<  --  We got bq24150 which is quite a bit different it seems16:28
DocScrutinizerthough, when I think about it, I didn't find that much diffs in datasheet, still this driver bewilders me16:28
* jonwil wishes he could decide what n900 thing to work on16:29
DocScrutinizeranyway this driver is confusing, and doesn't deal *at all* with vboost16:29
PaliI think it is more simply to add vboost to that driver instead writing all from sketch16:31
DocScrutinizerPali: and looking through the source from start to end it appears to me the Nokia driver doesn't implement any additional intelligence so it still needs all the bme cruft like it does now. My driver spec OTOH is meant to implement an autonomous handler that only needs a ONE-TIME config e.g. during boot and then could happily run along charging under same unchanged situation for infinite time without any bme retriggering watchdog and similar16:34
DocScrutinizercruft. The idea is to allow concurrent userland/other systems to simply set up charger to meet the situation (host powered charging, fastcharger charging, even vboost) and then leave it alone16:34
DocScrutinizerwhile the driver itself controls and maintains the bq24150 chip16:35
DocScrutinizerI.E. tickles watchdog etc16:35
Paliyes, I know16:35
DocScrutinizerNokia driver fails completely on this idea16:36
Palican bq chip tell us if charger or power usb cable is connected?16:37
DocScrutinizerit can't16:37
DocScrutinizeryou need other kernel based and useland cruft to do so16:37
Paliso we need additional checks (from other driver?) to check that16:37
Paliso auto charge should be in other kernel module16:38
Palinot in bq2415x*.ko16:38
DocScrutinizerwell, it can detect VBUS 5V, it can to some degree check if PHY chip things there'S D+/- short16:38
DocScrutinizeryou can set up bq24150 to start charging @ XXXmA whenever there'S VBUS 5V applied16:39
DocScrutinizerfor more nifty stuff we need support from way more complex systems, and that's userland task16:39
DocScrutinizerlike doing USB ENUM to learn if PC can power 500mA16:40
DocScrutinizeror if it is a PC at all16:40
DocScrutinizeror rather a dumb charger with missing D+/- short (->100mA max, according to Nokia's conservative and standards conforming policy)16:41
DocScrutinizerfor all this other systems are involved, as charger driver can't do e.g. ENUM16:41
Paliwhat is isp1704 charger?16:42
DocScrutinizerlol, 1704 is USB PHY detecting D+/- short16:42
Paliin upstream kernel it is something for rx51:
luke-jrI'm definitely noticing a huge performance boost switching to hardfp on N90016:42
luke-jrjonwil: kernels16:43
DocScrutinizerPali: so isp1704_charger probably means the PHY has detected D+/- short and thus the plugged in cherging device is considered to be a fastcharger16:44
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DocScrutinizerPali: bq24150 even has a hw signal line to talk to PHY directly regarding this16:45
DocScrutinizeralas the PHY is not always consistent in asserting this signal16:45
DocScrutinizeras PHY msutn't try to detect D+/- short when an active USB session is ongoing, as it would break data transfer (check for Data+ to Data- short, go figure!)16:46
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DocScrutinizerotoh an active USB session means there's definitely no D+/- short ;-D16:50
DocScrutinizeryou see charging over USB is quite entangled a bit with generic USB driver though16:50
DocScrutinizerwhich is why we need to get rid of BME for hostmode, basically16:51
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DocScrutinizerPali: for bq24150 proper cherging&VBOOST versatile kernel driver all this doesn't matter too much16:52
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DocScrutinizermy specs specify a *sane* interface (I hope) that allows to offload the annoying bits to the driver while keeping all the nifty finegrained control to userland16:53
DocScrutinizerI even planned for raw register access for "dumb brute force access" the bme alike style16:54
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DocScrutinizerso with a very simple wrapper to change direct I2C-writes/reads to /sys/bq24150/<register> clean reads/writes bme could still work on this driver, though would basically disable all the smartness in that driver - but well that'S what bme likes to do16:56
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DocScrutinizera "smarter bme" would just write once to things like /sys/bq24150/... USB-curlim,chterm_ena,chterm_thld,CC,CV... and then echo auto >watchdog16:59
DocScrutinizerthen let kernel driver and chip do their thing16:59
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DocScrutinizeryou could kill smarter-bme and uninstall it and charging would continue happily, after that17:00
DocScrutinizernext time smarter-bme would be needed was on next plug-in of charger/PC17:01
DocScrutinizerto check type of "charger" and again write once to above mentioned sysnodes17:01
* jonwil wonders why Nokia chose to ignore most of the functionality of the charger chip and write all sorts of funky code in BME instead17:01
DocScrutinizerjonwil: heritage17:01
jacekowskibecause rapuyama used to do charging17:01
DocScrutinizeryes, exactly17:02
jacekowskiand rapuyama has same code in it as big parts of BME17:02
jacekowskieven on n90017:02
DocScrutinizerthey simply ported the age-old bme code that basically was there on 6210 phones, to N90017:03
DocScrutinizerand ignored the fact they now got a smart charger chip that could do all that nasty stuff for them17:03
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DocScrutinizerprobably not even Nokia did that, I suspect they hired a subcontractor that does this for them since 199917:04
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DocScrutinizerwell, lol but no kidding17:05
jacekowskiwhy 99?17:05
DocScrutinizerthat's when I seen same shite in Nokia 6210 monitor, nder "battery" tab17:05
DocScrutinizermaybe it pedates this phone ;-D17:06
VenemoLoL :D17:06
* jonwil wonders if there is an easy way to add a "switch between 2G and 3G" option to the status bar menu17:06
jacekowskithere was applet for that17:06
jonwilany idea what it is called?17:06
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jacekowskii don't have n900 anymore17:07
jonwildamn :(17:07
jacekowskii have N8 with symbian17:07
jonwilIf one already exists, saves me reinventing the wheel17:07
* DocScrutinizer beats jacekowski around a little17:07
jonwilbut if I cant find it, it doesn't help me17:07
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jacekowskisearch for 3g17:07
jacekowski3g2g-mode-selection-applet - Switch between the three network modes (3G, 2G and Dual) from the status menu17:08
DocScrutinizer2G/3G switcher applet - or sth like that17:08
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DocScrutinizerI'm using it all the time17:08
jonwilfound it, now I need to add it to my phone :)17:09
DocScrutinizerrecently 2G(!) became abysmally poor here so I don't use it that much anymore17:09
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DocScrutinizerhen a year ago I had to switch to 2G when entering my fav pub, or otherwise connection is all shaky and introduces dropouts, on 3g - now it's exactly the other way round17:11
DocScrutinizer3G sort of works now in that pub, but 2G is unbearable17:11
* DocScrutinizer wonders if they got a good price for the surplus 2G equipment they sold... fools17:12
* jonwil got a notice in the mail calling for public consultation on the erection of a new cell tower in his area17:13
DocScrutinizerduh, I read "erection" and thought "meh, SPAM"17:13
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕17:14
RST38hHELO gentlemen17:14
DocScrutinizerEHLO RST38h17:14
jonwilhmmm so should I work on wlan stuff, h-i-m stuff, osso-backup stuff, libbmeipc/hald-addon-bme stuff, sysinfo/libsysinfo stuff, systemui stuff, connectivity ui stuff or maps stuff...?17:14
DocScrutinizerhald-addon-bme sounds like it would go nicely along with Pali 's / my bq24150 driver stuff17:15
jonwilit would basically be a 1:1 clone of hald-addon-bme plus a 1:! clone of libbmeipc and a dev package for libbmeipc17:16
Pali libbmeipc is open17:16
jonwilno its not, not on the N900 Fremantle17:17
jonwiln900_libbme on meego is open17:17
Paliis not same?17:17
jonwilbut that's different17:17
DocScrutinizerreplace hald-addon-bme, bme, and bq27200/bq24150 .ko in one pkg and we get a sane bme free kernel that kinda just works17:17
DocScrutinizerjonwil: bq24150.ko has no way to support libbmeipc17:18
Palihald-addon-bme is easy to write - we can use bq27200 kernel driver17:18
jonwilThere are 3 places that talk to libbmepic other than hald-addon-bme. One is nokia-closed-pulseaudio-blobs, one is dsme_thermalsurface and the last one is testserver17:18
DocScrutinizeryou need to patch hald-addon-bme to directly use the sysfs nodes17:18
DocScrutinizerjonwil: :nod:17:18
Paliwe do not need bmeipc.... all applications using hal17:18
jonwilits fairly easy to make something that exposes the same outside-world interface as hald-addon-bme but talks directly to kernel17:18
jonwilnokia-pulseaudio-blobs cant be changed easily17:19
jonwilsince they are closed17:19
jonwildsme_themalsurface is open though17:19
jonwiland testserver doesnt seem to be used normally17:19
DocScrutinizerfor PA we need to figure WTF it does, thermal is kinda obvious what it does and we need to do similar thing in "jrbme" or bq24150.ko, and testserver, oh my17:19
Palidsme thermal can be patched17:19
jonwilI posted to mailing list a while back with info on this17:20
jonwilincluding info on what bme call pulseaudio is making17:20
Paliis not nokia pulseaudio open in meego?17:21
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕17:21
jonwilnope, nokia-pulseaudio-blobs are still closed in meego17:21
jonwilsmaller blobs but still closed17:21
jonwilaha, my post is titled "Information on the interface to hald-addon-bme (so it can be replaced with something that bypasses BME and talks to the kernel directly)"17:22
jonwilgoogle for that to find it :)17:22
jonwilthe only thing pulseaudio cares about is the temprature value17:22
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jonwilthe source code for dsme-thermalobject-surface should show you exactly what bme calls are being made17:22
Palipulseaudio and temperature?? WTF??17:22
jonwiland I can confirm that pulseaudio seems to only be using the same values17:22
Paliwhy pulseaudio need temperature?17:23
jonwilno idea17:23
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jonwilso yeah I think given the info I posted in that mailing list post, there isn't that much in hald-addon-bme or libbmeipc that is worth cloning or figuring out :)17:23
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DocScrutinizerspeaker protection or sth weird17:24
DocScrutinizerI could say "they need it for ultra-smart echo cancellation, as speed for sound is varying with air temperature" but LOL17:25
DocScrutinizerspeed OF sound17:25
jonwilso should I work on wlan, h-i-m, osso-backup, sysinfo, systemui, connectivity ui or maps?17:25
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jonwildo you know what h-i-m means in this case? :P17:26
freemangordonhm, hoping it is hildon-input-method17:26
jonwilyes it is17:27
jonwilwhat specifically do you think I should be doing on hildon-input-method?17:27
Palihildon-input-method library is open, only plugins are closed, sure?17:27
jonwilthe library is open17:28
jonwilbut plugins and renderers and stuff are closed17:28
jonwilincluding the hildon vkb renderer widget17:28
jonwiland the library that handles the virtual keyboard layouts17:28
jonwiland more besides :(17:28
freemangordonjonwil, btw there is almost working (AFAIK) example of renderer somewhere in maemo application framework17:28
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: a clean hald-addon-bme implementation that doesn't use libbmeipc but rather directly uses /sys/bq27200/* and /sys/bq24150/* would quite be worth it :-)17:29
DocScrutinizerjonwil: ^^^17:29
Palijonwil: on I see 3 packages: hildon-input-method-configurator hildon-input-method-plugins-western hildon-input-method-widgets17:29
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DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: ETAB17:29
jonwilThe info needed for such a hald-addon-bme is in my mailing list post17:29
DocScrutinizerjonwil: sure, I thought you asked what to *work on*, not what to investigate and publish docs ;-)17:31
DocScrutinizerbut yeah, I got it now17:31
jonwilexcept that I dont want to work on kernel stuff :P17:31
DocScrutinizerhald-addon-bme is all but kernel17:32
jonwilit talks to kernel though :P17:32
jonwilI know nothing about kernel battery driver, best to let someone who does write new hald-addon-bme :P17:32
DocScrutinizereven access to bq24150/27200 is a userland plain read()17:32
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freemangordonjonwil, damn is 33k of size, shouldn't be that hard to RE ans rewrite it17:33
jonwiloh and for hildon-input-method stuff, the closed packages are hildon-im-common-virtual-settings , hildon-im-fkb , hildon-im-keyboard-assistant, hildon-im-keyboard-assistant-scv , hildon-im-plugin-base-settings , hildon-im-virtual-keyboard-layouts , hildon-input-method-configurator , hildon-input-method-plugins-western , hildon-input-method-widgets17:34
jonwilplus also ezitext* packages17:34
jonwiland imengines-ezitext17:34
freemangordonwe don't need all that stuff for portrait keyboard17:34
Paliezitext are only spelling database?17:34
jonwilwell as far as hildon-input-method work goes, my first target is to finish cloning, hildon-input-method-configurator.bin and possibly libcptextinput.so17:35
jonwilwhich will mean the list of valid hwkbd layouts can be un-hard-coded17:35
jonwilas those 3 binaries are what contain the hardcoded lists17:36
jonwilas for libhildon-im-vkbrenderer, its not as simple as it looks :P17:36
freemangordonhmm, how then ukeyboard adds my language?17:36
jonwilthe hardcoded lists seem to only affect the settings17:36
jonwilh-i-m and its plugins just use whatever value is in gconf17:37
freemangordonso, why then one should care?17:37
freemangordonif there is a workaround17:37
jonwilbecause normal users dont want a hack, they want to be able to pick their new layouts from the dropdown with all the rest17:38
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freemangordonsure, but ukeyboard allows exactly that without any hackery17:39
jonwilwell I am probably going to clone it anyway :P17:39
freemangordonit uses standart .vkb files17:39 isn't rocket science although I am close to the point where I say "forget about cloning it exactly and just write something that does the same thing"17:39
Palijonwil: in hildon welcome (screen to choose time&date + language at boot first time) is propably hardcoded languages... I cannot see here additional my (slovak) lang, but in control panel is visible17:40
Paliit is true that language choose box/menu is hardcoded or only bad configuration?17:41
PaliThis is really annoying that after remove and insert battery I must start phone 2 times (one to choose english and then in control panel change to other)...17:42
* jonwil looks17:42
jonwilok, hildon-welcome.launch is not making any GTK calls17:43
jonwilits only making some X calls17:43
jonwilplus some gconf calls17:43
jonwilI mean gstreamer calls17:43
jonwiland glic17:43
jonwiland dbus17:43
jonwilits asking mce to turn on the display with req_display_state_on17:44
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jonwilthats all it does for dbus17:44
PaliI do not know if it is app with name hildon-welcome17:45
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jonwilhmmm maybe its not17:45
jonwilin fact I dont think it is17:45
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freemangordonjonwil, seen that ?17:46
jonwilyep, I seen that, not very helpful with the stuff I am doing though because of how simple it is :P17:46
merlin1991cssu stable is out:
freemangordongood, good17:48
* merlin1991 goes to write the maemo-dev crosspost17:48
freemangordonjonwil, I am going to RE libhildon-im-vkbrenderer17:48
jonwilok, you do that17:48
jonwilif you think you can17:48
freemangordonat least I will try17:48
jonwilgo ahead and use my libimlayouts header file if you like17:49
freemangordonNot I am much in GTK17:49
freemangordonNot that*17:49
freemangordonTime to learn something new17:50
jonwilaha, osso-startup-wizzard is the app I want17:51
jonwilanyone heard of clutter?17:58
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/17:58
merlin1991thanks doc :)17:58
merlin1991I already thought nobody cared ;)17:58
* luke-jr ponders if a decent WM is possible on N900 given its practical lack of 3D accel17:58
SpeedEvilCompute MIPS/framebuffer-size.17:59
jonwiloh and pali, check files in /usr/share/osso-startup-wizard, those seem to be where it gets its config from17:59
SpeedEvilIt's >>>117:59
luke-jr1.5 kIPS per pixel18:00
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Palijonwil: thanks!18:03
jonwilbah this is too hard to follow, its using clutter (which I know nothing about), something called cogl (also unknown), plus a bunch of hard-to-follow C++ stuff like std::string and iostreams18:04
jonwilits also using libcityinfo18:04
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trumeeanybody has experience with a good 1A car charger to use with N900?18:05
jonwillots of dbus calls too18:05
* trumee only has experience with Nokia DC-10 charger which has a very short cable and useless now.18:05
jonwilits also using libi18n_locale_resolve_list_predefined18:06
jonwilwhatever that is18:06
luke-jrtrumee: I grabbed a cheap dual-USB-port one off NewEgg18:06
trumeeluke-jr: 1A?18:07
luke-jrtrumee: 1A & 2A18:07
luke-jrno cable, you plug your normal USB one into it18:07
trumeeluke-jr: cool. i need to buy one in UK18:07
jonwilaha, that function comes from libi18n-locale-resolver0 which is closed18:08
luke-jris there a safe way to preemptively prevent my USB port from breaking?18:08
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: nah, this will become THE BIG NEWS over the next 48h18:08
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: see ^^^18:08
trumeeluke-jr: what is the use of 2A port?18:08
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: for MWKN18:08
luke-jrtrumee: I guess iPads use it or something. I just figured a 2nd port would allow me future expansion18:09
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: that'S definitely next monday's headline18:09
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merlin1991lmao Doc on a newsrampage :D18:10
jonwilhmmm, the data in /usr/share/i18n_locale_resolver seems interesting (but in an undocumented, uneditable binary format)18:10
trumeeluke-jr: is it ok to plug N900 into the 2A charger?18:10
luke-jrtrumee: can't hurt.18:11
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo -- N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | | Source: | Chanlog: | RECENT UPDATE: || CSSU-Stable IS OUT: get it via links in *now*!"18:11
trumeeluke-jr: found something,
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jonwilaha, clutter is a drawing library18:12
jonwili.e. its used by osso-startup-wizard because the latter is a fullscreen app and doesnt need to use GTK18:12
jonwilalthough clutter still has a dep on gtk18:13
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luke-jravoiding GTK is impossible now :/18:16
luke-jreven BlueZ and pkg-config use GTK18:16
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r00t|homebluez only requires it for the pin-input widget, which is just ridiculous...18:20
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luke-jrr00t|home: wtf? srsly?18:22
luke-jrwhy doesn't it use pinentry?18:22
r00t|homeat least that's the issue i had with bluez on notebooks18:22
r00t|homethere is a cli-tool included, but debian only delivers the source, no binary of it, and the package depends on the whole gui cruft18:23
luke-jrI use Gentoo anyhow18:23
Corsacyou seem wrong, nor bluez nor bluez-tools depend on gtk18:23
Corsacbluez-gnome does, obviously18:24
r00t|homeme? maybe they changed it by now, but it used to be that way18:24
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Corsacand pkg-config only requires glib18:26
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, I was going to stick it on the Miscellaneous page.18:39
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: well, it's finally an "official" community repo for maemo recommended to *everyone*19:05
DocScrutinizerbasically we could even expect from Nokia to include concerns about compatibilty to CSSU-S for any further (obviously never coming) update19:06
DocScrutinizerfor N900 users today is a historic date, a quantum leap (though I hate the term as it's basically wrong)19:07
SpeedEvilErr - I missed most of todays discussion - wut?19:08
DocScrutinizerCSSU-Stable is officially out in the wild19:09
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DocScrutinizerfreemangordon offline?? DANG!19:15
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luke-jras if CSSU has any potential19:20
luke-jrtoo much closed19:20
luke-jryou can't maintain something without source19:20
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Macerluke-jr: maybe it is like quake... they are just waiting a little while before releasing it all19:34
Maceras it stands though regardless of all that... maemo is probably still the best portable linux distro you can use on a device with a phone built in19:35
Macerthe hildon closed bits are probably the worst thing nokia has closed right now. but i'm no dev so i don't know19:35
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Maceri mean if you can show me another linux distro on a device which allows for some pretty good comm i'd love to see it19:37
Macerbut it is obviously not gentoo :)19:37
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: defeatist! we got some fixes to "closed" stuff in CSSU, we even got or are about to get true rewrites of other closed bits, for the mere benefit of openness, as being closed is a bug in itself as well19:56
GeneralAntillesWish somebody'd port Swipe19:58
bindiswipe? swype?20:00
MohammadAGFuck that20:00
MohammadAGOh wait, swype or swipe?20:00
bindiswype is horrible, i tried it once20:01
MohammadAGswipe is harmattan's ui20:01
MohammadAGIt's a nice concept, and ou20:01
MohammadAGYou do type faster20:01
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MohammadAGBut you also spend more time correcting mistakes20:01
nealhow does swipe improve typing speed?20:01
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MohammadAGIt's easier to reach a radius than the letter itself20:02
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freemangordonjonwil, ping20:59
freemangordon~seen jonwil21:00
infobotjonwil <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2h 47m ago, saying: 'although clutter still has a dep on gtk'.21:00
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Maceromg... 500K?21:03
Macerthey're going under :)21:03
Sicelofreemangordon: paul is back in #mhd21:05
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MacerIn an interview with the publication, Nokia chief executive Stephen Elop said sales would build over time, but declined to give internal targets. “We are interested first and foremost about volume. Our highest priority is to help Windows Phones to compete with Android. This is the first showcase product.â21:08
Macerspoken like a true ms puppet. :) ms is going to buy them i bet21:09
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* SpeedEvil crosses fingers for strong n9 sales.21:11
Venemothey deserved it21:12
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MohammadAG Woo, broke iOS's audio stack21:24
Venemocongrats MohammadAG21:27
Macerbroke as in hacked.. or broke as in doesn't work anymore?21:28
Macerstill #3! lol. i think that is only because htc makes crap phones21:29
MohammadAGMacer fucked it up21:30
Venemohtc makes industry waste.21:31
VenemoI wouldn't call what they make "phones"21:31
MohammadAGSo does nokia tbh21:31
Maceryeah. they are horrible devices21:31
Macerhey! n900 is a solid phone21:31
Macerminus the usb ports21:31
MohammadAGIos kernel panic, yay21:32
luke-jrexcept it isn't a phone21:32
MohammadAGWindows phone is industry waste21:33
javispedroMohammadAG: how does it look btw?21:33
Macergo back to gentoo21:33
luke-jrMacer: I'm going to quote you when Nokia sends you an E7 to replace your broken N90021:33
javispedro(the panic)21:33
MohammadAGjavispedro: It reboots21:33
luke-jrMacer: if N900 is a phone, E7 is a valid replacement21:33
javispedroMohammadAG: bah, cowards.21:33
Macerluke-jr: maybe mine is a better build quality.. it is made in finland ;)21:33
MohammadAGjavispedro: You get a log somewhere21:33
Macerluke-jr: they do21:33
MohammadAGLemme find it21:34
Macern900s are replaced with e7s21:34
luke-jrMacer: people who insist N900 is not a phone, get fixed N900s back ;)21:34
MohammadAGBtw, i'm amazed how many threads the ui has21:34
Macerfair enough21:34
MohammadAGOver 26 i think21:34
MohammadAGNot sure how they debug that shit21:34
hiemanshuMohammadAG: you need to enable logging via XCode for that21:34
Maceri get your point21:34
MohammadAGhiemanshu: For what21:34
hiemanshuMohammadAG: panic logs21:34
MohammadAGNo mac = no xcode21:34
MohammadAGhiemanshu: No21:34
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: there was something like that, and in a panic its a spinning wheel and reboot21:35
MohammadAGhiemanshu: Yeah, thats what happened21:36
MohammadAGI restarted springboard, it kept spinning and rebooted21:36
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javispedro"incident". genius.21:39
javispedrosecure boot?: NO hmpf?21:39
MohammadAGTethered jailbreak boot21:40
hiemanshuI had a 3GS verbose boot, and screwed around with it enough to get a lot of stuff21:40
MohammadAGiOS is a fun hacking platform21:41
MohammadAGIf fun is going mad21:41
hiemanshuI crashed it millions of times, something malf's, reboot21:42
MohammadAGIve been thinking21:43
MohammadAGIf pocketsphinx ran well on the N81021:43
MohammadAGIt'll run even better on the n90021:44
MohammadAGWhy don't we write a siri equivalent?21:44
MohammadAGWithout online processing21:44
javispedroPocketSphinx's accuracy has been 0% for me21:45
MohammadAGIt works fine on the iphone21:45
javispedrowhich model do they use, do you know?21:45
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javispedrono idea21:52
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luke-jrlol @ iPhone app website using flash21:57
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