IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-11-14

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DocScrutinizer51rly: USB networking is not a promoted property of the device, so SIP not working over USB network is neither. But that's why we all decided to get a maemo device and not an iPhone: we are usually free to fix it based on community effort00:08
rlyDocScrutinizer51: that might be true, but it is still not acceptable for software to fail silently.00:10
DocScrutinizer51though I'm not yet convinced there's actually any "bug" in this, might as well be a missing config tweak00:10
rlyPrograms are theorem proving machines in my world.00:11
DocScrutinizer51rly: I tend to agree with you on error reporting in maemo usually being suboptimal00:11
* cehteh rather wonders why SIP over wlan is sometimes jittery00:12
rlycehteh: isn't anything over wlan jittery?00:13
rlyeverything*00:13
DocScrutinizer51hey cehteh00:13
ShadowJKWhen using USB networking, does the status area thingis think internet connection exists?00:14
cehtehhi doc00:14
rlyShadowJK: for me it does.00:14
* cehteh is quite busy these days, we're moving on thursday00:14
rlyDocScrutinizer51: thanks for your help. Too bad we haven't reached a full solution yet. Perhaps next time (which won't be soon).00:15
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luke-jr[17:08:43] <DocScrutinizer51> rly: USB networking is not a promoted property of the device, so SIP not working over USB network is neither. But that's why we all decided to get a maemo device and not an iPhone: we are usually free to fix it based on community effort <-- except we're NOT really00:18
luke-jrunless "fix" means "rewrite the entire stack from scratch"00:18
luke-jr[17:12:56] * cehteh rather wonders why SIP over wlan is sometimes jittery <-- wlan seems to have inconsistent latency when there's other devices using it00:18
rlyluke-jr: so, I should have gotten an OpenMoko? ^^00:19
luke-jrrly: OpenMoko never worked afaik00:20
ShadowJKI think N900 is a target device for fso now, so...00:20
rly??fso00:20
rly~fso00:20
infobotrumour has it, fso is the freesmartphone.org mobile devices middleware.00:20
luke-jrmine died before I got to properly try it :|00:20
befordhey, what would you guys consider the best twitter client available for n900?00:21
luke-jrTwitter sucks00:21
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befordno, you :300:22
ShadowJKwlan basically lets a device hog the channel until it gets its message through. On wimax every device wanting to transmit/receive is assigned a limited amount of time regardless of how much data they manage to push through during that time00:22
rlyShadowJK: and does it already work?00:22
ShadowJKno idea00:22
rlyShadowJK: is it funded?00:22
ShadowJKbut my point was that it's probably at same level as a freerunner00:22
rlyluke-jr just said that it didn't really work. Not very encouraging.00:23
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dangergrrlso, i didn't find any working directions to tether the n900's wifi from a wifiess desktop00:57
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dangergrrli have working directions now00:57
dangergrrlshould i make a wiki account?00:57
Siceloyeah ;)00:59
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dangergrrlwell, i wanted to know how to get it to work, someone else ,ight :)01:07
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jonwilhmmm, someone got the source code for the certificate manager applet...01:33
jonwilhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7995701:33
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ShadowJK<Pali> Hello, I got source code of certman control panel applet from NOKIA01:36
ShadowJK<Pali> source code is GPL, so I published it here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7995701:36
luke-jrO.o01:37
jonwilHopefully the CSSU can pull this in and use it instead of shipping the binaries01:40
jonwilOk how did this guy get that code and is there anything else we can get? :P01:40
mr_jrtWow. Shouldn't be so surprising...but it is, sadly.01:44
* jonwil reads backscroll01:45
* jonwil sees talk about BME code01:45
Macerhahaha01:46
jonwilOf all the closed source things on the N900, there are things that would be FAR more usefull as open-source than BME01:46
Macerjonwil: like hildon?01:46
Macerall of it01:46
Macer:)01:46
jonwillike closed hildon-input-method bits yes01:46
jonwiland like connectivity UI01:46
jonwiland like ICD201:46
Macerconnectivity ui consists of what?01:47
jonwilthings like the status bar gizmos for cellular and network status01:47
jonwiland the "phone" and "internet" control panels01:47
Macerjust the settings subsection to configure the wifi and phone networks01:47
jonwiland all that stuff01:47
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Maceris it not possible to make a new one?01:47
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jonwilno, there is a lot more to it than it looks01:48
jonwilthis includes stuff for network selection01:48
jonwiland a bunch of other stuff01:48
Maceri would assume they are protective of the modem stuff especially01:48
jonwilbluetooth is also tied into it01:48
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jonwilall this stuff talks to the modem via the cellular services daemon01:48
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Macersince in the wrong hands such hardware use could be a bad day for gsm providers01:48
jonwilwhich is something that doesn't need to be open-sourced, just documented (i.e. the dbus interface to it)01:49
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jonwilThe secret cell modem stuff should be in the cellmo firmware01:49
jonwilMCE source code for Fremantle would be nice also :P01:49
Macertalking to the secret stuff sometimes gives away its secrets01:49
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Macer;)01:49
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jonwilok, so publish all the dbus interfaces except those that are sensitive in some way :P01:50
mr_jrtI thought all the bluetooth stuff was just bluez (i.e. open)?01:50
Maceri cant believe this n900 i got for $250 from ebay is working so well01:50
jonwilyeah bluetooth is bluez01:50
jonwiland stuff01:50
Macerfrom cellphonesforever :)01:51
jonwilbut there are connectivity widgets and things (like the bluetooth status bar icon) that are closed01:51
Macerthe evil n900 seller hahaha01:51
Macermine works beyond great01:51
Macerso they should really jusr make it all seperate01:52
Macerso the modem stuff is isolated01:52
Macerand you have access to the rest of the hardware to make a better ui for it?01:52
ShadowJKThere's that battery monitor widget replacement. We know how to talk to the hardware, there's code that talks to the hardware charging and to the battery fuel gauge. We don't need bme, at all.01:52
jonwiloh and also ofono (which is for meego and is open) has pretty much all the cell modem bits01:53
Maceri think the reason nokia has it closed in such a way is to prevent the community doing a better job than they did01:53
jonwilincluding anything "secret"01:53
Macerand turning maemo into something people want :)01:53
Macerlol01:53
Macerbecause then people will ask... why couldnt nokia do that when they were doing it?01:53
Macerespecially the ui ... if you made the ui something as intuitive for the cattle as android or ios... people at nokia are getting fired01:54
jonwilI can easily come up with a list of ~10 pieces of software that, if open sourced or devel/documentation/etc packages released, would really benefit the N900 and ongoing work by myself and others.01:54
Macerwrite to nokia and ask :&01:54
Macer:)01:55
Macerworse they'll say is no01:55
jonwilI wouldn't know who to ask01:55
Macersend it to elop01:55
jonwilor what to say :P01:55
Macerlol01:55
ShadowJKthere was a "process" once for doing it via bugzilla01:55
jonwilyeah, there are about 20 unresolved bugs, most of which have no response01:56
jonwilor maybe just a generic "fremantle is dead" response01:56
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LaoLang_coolHow to find a contact with the phone number in contacts?01:58
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jonwilooh good, I think http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1079565&postcount=4 means I can include libconnui.so and libconnui_cell.so in my libconnui-dev package and not force users to have to copy those files from the phone...01:59
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LaoLang_coolIs it possible to find a contact in contacts if I only know the cell phone number?02:04
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jonwiloh well, I can remove "Clone certificate manager applet" from my "possible-todo" list now :)02:10
Macerdamnit02:16
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Maceri need 4 3TB hard drives02:16
Macerstupid taiwan02:16
Maceri bet that near-slave labor isn't looking so cheap now is it?02:17
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DocScrutinizer51LaoLang_cool: sure, as dialer does same on inbound calls02:27
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer51: how to do it?02:28
DocScrutinizer51mompls02:28
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer51: what does mompls mean?02:28
DocScrutinizer~mompl02:29
infobotit has been said that mompl is a stupid short form for "moment please"02:29
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer: oh, thank you02:29
DocScrutinizersth along http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60526&page=302:30
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DocScrutinizeractually http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=990571#post99057102:34
DocScrutinizerjust edit a few lines like the one >>            if c.get_property("nickname") == options.nick_name02:35
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer: wow, so technologic02:38
LaoLang_coolI like this way ;p02:38
LaoLang_coolis it possible to get sms from cli?02:39
LaoLang_coolSo I can search for some string in sms02:39
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NIN101LaoLang_cool: you can access the sqlite3 database  in /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger02:58
jonwilanyone know what "acting dead" means?03:00
LaoLang_coolNIN101: too professional for me...03:02
LaoLang_coolHow to tar files excluding the soft links in current dir?03:04
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* jonwil will talk to pali next time he is on, find out how he got certman applet source and whether there is other stuff we can ask for via the same means03:16
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* LaoLang_cool is looking for a pic viewer that can show the original picture size...03:26
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jonwilwho knows, maybe we can convince nokia to release connui-common, connui-cellular, connui-internet, connui-wlan & connui-bluetooth. Or libimlayouts & hildon-input-method-widgets.03:42
jonwilNow that we know there is a possible way to at least ask, its better than it was before :P03:42
NIN101LaoLang_cool: find dirname | while read file ; do [ -L $file ] || echo $file ; done  | sed '1d' > packing ; tar cvz -T packing -f archive.tar.gz03:47
LaoLang_coolNIN101: Thank you guru!03:49
NIN101yw03:52
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DocScrutinizer51jonwil: act_dead is init 2(?) aka charging state when device is "off"04:01
jonwilok04:01
NIN101iirc init 504:01
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merlin1991jonwil: I wouldn't get my hopes up04:07
jonwilyeah I am not04:07
merlin1991the source pali has isn't on par with the released version of the applet04:07
jonwilbut hey, it certainly cant hurt to try04:07
jonwilhmmm ok04:08
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jonwilbut even incomplete or older source would be extremely valuable to me in some cases :P04:16
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luke-jrjonwil: N810 BME and gpsdriver would be invaluable04:22
jonwilthat has even less chance of happening than anything for the N90004:22
luke-jrbut… can't hurt to ask? :D04:23
jonwil:P04:23
jonwilin any case when I see pali, I will find out what happened and how he got code (and what the story is with the code not patching PR1.3/PR1.3.1)04:25
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jonwilit does mean though that the code isn't that usefull for CSSU04:27
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LaoLang_coolhi, which files are the sms's db? I want to backup it04:45
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* SpeedEvil imagines the whole internal repository leaking.04:58
DocScrutinizeryou must be dreaming05:00
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DocScrutinizerbtw no worries about Nokia ever disclosing bme src, they don't even dare to give specs on how to *charge* the battery05:03
DocScrutinizeras if they would be (more) liable of any damage done when they tell hackers what to _avoid_05:04
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* jonwil doesnt understand why anyone cares about BME code05:05
jonwilI have no wish whatsoever to mess with BME05:05
DocScrutinizerI asked several times "what is the NTC sensor reading for bat temp where we should shut down for safety reasons, to avoid battery cell overtemp?" - A: "we mustn't tell as we don't want to take responsibility"05:06
DocScrutinizerI have no wish to look at this abomination called bme src05:06
jonwilNone of the bits of code I want seem to be particularly risky in terms of security or safety or legal issues05:07
DocScrutinizerthere's definitely *nothing* in it I'd want to know about05:07
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK lives happily now since > 1 year with letting bq24150 charger chip just do its job, rather than trying to teach it how to do it better like bme does05:09
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DocScrutinizerbtw please help me out, what's been the major argument for meego? wasn't it sth like "we'll do it THE RIGHT WAY[TM] this time, no closed source anymore"? Well, fine, now we have a mostly published hildon and a closed source swipe, and bme is as closed as it ever was X-P05:19
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jonwilHarmattan is not MeeGo05:20
jonwilMeeGo is as open as Nokia can legally get it05:20
DocScrutinizerI know, but then WTF did they do all the time?05:20
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DocScrutinizerwhere from are all those closed bits of swipe/MTF?05:22
jonwilno idea05:22
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jonwil:)05:22
DocScrutinizerwhat a major brainf*ck05:25
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* DocScrutinizer notices he gets his grumpy 15 minutes and waves a cyal8r05:26
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* jonwil cant understand why people seem to think that having the MCE source code is of any benefit05:45
jonwillike the guy on TMO who said "I could probably be very happy with pr 1.1 BME source"05:46
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SpeedEvilIt'd be useful for a proper replacement.06:18
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LaoLang_coolhello07:16
LaoLang_coollooking for a picture viewer, any recommended?07:17
robbiethe1stUh, stock one?07:17
slonopotamusrobbiethe1st: that woud be too simple07:18
LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st: stock one?07:18
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LaoLang_cool...07:18
LaoLang_cooloh07:18
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slonopotamusdo we have source for retutime from initfs?08:06
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jonwilDo you mean for N900 or N8xx?08:18
slonopotamusN900 has initfs?08:18
jonwilI cant find any indications that retutime on the N810 is open source08:21
slonopotamusyep. sad.08:25
* slonopotamus tries to figure out what to do with clock on his n800 with 3.1 kernel08:26
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pabs3jonwil: what does retutime do?08:49
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jonwilno idea08:49
jonwilgoogle seems to suggest that its clock related08:49
jonwili.e. it helps set the clock properly08:49
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pabs3seems to be a proprietary userspace util for doing what the kernel RTC drivers do I guess08:50
jonwilyeah something for doing things to avoid needing to document certain things about the clock logic08:52
jonwilI am guessing08:52
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pabs3this lwn comment seems to suggest there is kernel code to replace that: http://lwn.net/Articles/230227/08:53
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pabs3and it seems like there is qemu code to emulate them here: http://www.weilnetz.de/qemu-doc/ARM-System-emulator.html08:56
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LaoLang_coolHello, how to auto-solve depend issue with dpkg -i  ?09:11
LaoLang_coolIs there an option to let dpkg auto install the depend?09:12
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pabs3LaoLang_cool: apt-get -f install09:14
pabs3LaoLang_cool: dpkg doesn't have any dependency resolving, thats in apt09:15
LaoLang_coolpabs3: thank you, that's it09:17
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LaoLang_coolHello, morning there. How to invoke a app to view a pic file in xterm? How to run a app to listen to a music file in xterm?10:50
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Sicelophone-control is easiest package to do both things11:07
Siceloif u want 'hard' way, check out Phone Control page in wiki11:07
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woldrichLaoLang_cool, 2) mplayer11:09
LaoLang_coolwoldrich: seems mplayer is buggy on n900, vol setting will make it no responce11:09
woldrichworks fine for me11:09
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LaoLang_coolwoldrich: press 0 and 9 to adjust vol is fine for you?11:10
LaoLang_coolhmm..11:10
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woldrichLaoLang_cool, yes, with -ao pulse11:13
LaoLang_coolwoldrich: oh, maybe it's the problem, I will try, thank you11:13
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mihuHi. The "Maps" application is not starting up any more. When I run "nokia-maps" from X terminal, I see a couply of messages, but then it gets stuck after "Plugin::Setup()", then "device language: GER" and then "set def coord ...". After that it just hangs. Of course I cannot remember fiddling with anything that might cause this. Any ideas?11:30
LaoLang_coolwoldrich: thank you, works fine!11:35
LaoLang_coolmplayer -ao pulse11:35
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achipaX-Fade: heya, got another weird one - i pushed libqtm-12+git*fremantle5 but it kinda didn't appear in the user interface11:50
achipaalso libqtm-12 seems to have lost the promotion block so it's borked in general as it propagated to testing11:50
jonwilI have never been able to run nokia-maps from xterminal, only from control panel11:50
jonwilI mean app view11:51
jonwilnot control panel11:51
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MaceSyn:) ...11:57
MaceSynomnia> ipkg list gcc11:57
MaceSyngcc - 4.2.3-1 - The GNU Compiler Collection.11:57
MaceSynok.. a native working gcc on a synology disk station but not on an n900?11:57
mihujonwil: If I do that, then "maps" will never start up either. It will keep showing that scroll bar forever.11:59
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ruskieMaceSyn, so add the sdk repo and install it12:06
crashanddieMaceSyn, there's gcc on the n90012:07
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MaceSyncrashanddie: a whole dev environment on the n900?12:08
crashanddiesure12:08
MaceSynusing maemo.. so you don't have to cross compile in sb?12:08
MaceSyn:)12:09
MaceSynwow really? does it work?12:09
crashanddieof course12:09
crashanddiethat's how liqbase was developed12:09
crashanddieentirely on-device.12:09
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MaceSynnice12:09
crashanddieit's linux, innit?12:09
MaceSynwhat about a functional dpkg?12:09
crashanddieI thought dpkg was on there?12:10
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MaceSyni'm asking ;)12:10
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MaceSynthat's kind of neat.. so you're saying i can install dpkg and gcc and get some src and build ? :)12:11
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MaceSyni will try that out12:11
ruskiedpkg is already on there iirc12:11
MaceSyni remember there being problems building and packaging on device12:11
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crashanddieMaceSyn, compiling C++ is very long.12:12
crashanddieMaceSyn, C code is kind of OK.12:12
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jonwilits possible to compile on device but it uses up large amounts of space to do so12:29
jonwilbecause of all the libs you need12:29
jonwiland all the headers12:29
jonwiland tools12:29
jonwilmy include folder alone is about 71 megs12:30
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cityLightsDocScrutinizer!13:42
cityLightswaht up dud?13:42
cityLightsremeber me asking about dnsmasq yesterday13:45
cityLights?13:45
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JaffaX-Fade: ping - planet.maemo.org doesn't seem to have updated with http://mwkn.net/issues.rss13:51
X-FadeJaffa: The maintenance node is down, notified the isp.13:52
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* RST38h yawns14:01
vdvi'm trying to build (from qtcreator) an app for a maemo5 target, but since dependency libs (hunspell, vorbis) are not present in madde, build fails. how can fix that?14:05
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jonwilWho was it that was working on alternative charging options for the N900 (i.e. using the charging chip instead of using BME)?14:13
SpeedEvilShadowJK: ?14:13
ShadowJKyes14:14
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* jonwil is surprised at the effort Nokia have gone with the notification system. They have an open source daemon (hildon-sv-notification-daemon) that talks to a closed source shared library (libhildon-plugins-notify-sv.so) which then talks to a closed source daemon (nsv-decoder-service)14:59
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jonwilaha, nsv-decoder-service exists only to decode compressed audio into wav files15:12
jonwiland isn't used if the wav file already exists15:12
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pabs3jonwil: I guess it uses some hardware decoding thing15:17
jonwilwell its making gstreamer calls15:17
jonwilso yeah it must be doing something like that15:17
jonwilwhat surprises me is that Nokia felt the need to keep this particular item closed15:18
jonwilgiven that I dont see it doing anything much other than handling notifications15:18
jonwillike calls and SMS15:18
jonwilto e.g. play ringtones15:18
jonwilor vibrate15:18
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jonwilalthough the more I look at it, the more it looks clonable15:20
jonwilwhich would be nice15:20
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LaoLang_coolhi, any recommended timer for n900?15:33
LaoLang_cooltimer, alarm15:33
HaXerithe app called "Clock"15:38
LaoLang_coolHaXeri: the built-in clock? Too limit, how to count down/up?15:39
LaoLang_cooland I can't see the second, it's only precise up to minute15:39
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mihuHi. Does anybody know which clock rates are supported by the SD card controller of the N900? UHS-I is certainly not supported, but HS mode? What is the maximum clock?15:54
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* ShadowJK uses tickstill for counting down/up15:55
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SpeedEvilmihu: 25MHz is used.15:59
SpeedEvilI'm unsure of the hardware maximums as I haven't been arsed.16:00
SpeedEvilThe hardware can easily do 12 meg a second read and write from SD.16:00
mihuSpeedEvil: Thanks.16:01
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mihuAnybody ever tried to hook up a SDIO card (for example a GPS received) to the N900 SD card slot?16:02
SpeedEvilThe hardware supports it.16:02
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mihuSpeedEvil: Yes, I think so. One problem is that most cards are SD form factor, so you need a SD to micro SD adapter. Another thing that worries me is that the kernel is so old.16:03
SpeedEvilAnd yes.16:05
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LaoLang_coolNo timer good enough on n900? :(16:05
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NIN101i like "stopish"16:08
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LaoLang_coolNIN101: thanks, it's simple and work :)16:13
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nealSpeedEvil: What card / workload did you get 12 mb/s on?16:21
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SpeedEvilold kingston 1G, and dd16:25
nealreading or writing?16:25
SpeedEvilboth16:25
nealhmm16:25
SpeedEvilThe actual 'real life' speed will vary, but this is mostly down to the card, not the n900 hardware.16:26
nealI still don't understand why I get 6mb/s with my n900 and 12mb/s with my thinkpad16:26
SpeedEvilGood question.16:26
SpeedEvilH?ow are you testing it?16:26
nealI used dd16:26
nealI also used bonnie16:27
SpeedEvilI'd ispect syslog, and see what it says about speeds.16:27
SpeedEvilAlso - top - check some other proces isn't busy at the same time16:28
* DocScrutinizer moos at SpeedEvil16:28
nealthe system was idle16:28
ShadowJKiostat is nice, the parameter to optimize for is avgrq-sz16:28
ShadowJK(iostat is in sysstat)16:28
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* DocScrutinizer has a deja-vu16:30
* DocScrutinizer ponders to find the copy of this convo in chanlog16:30
nealwe started this conversation a day or two ago, yes16:31
mgedminget an n9 -- no sd card slot, no problem16:32
nealhave one16:32
nealI don't like it :)16:32
nealI don't like the lack of hardware keyboard, the capacitive touch screen, swipe, aegis16:33
nealthose are my main complaints16:33
ShadowJKI was going to test the screen in a store, but before I had managed to convince it to boot I was drawing too much attention from the storekeepers :)16:33
DocScrutinizer51haha16:34
Macerrunning on Linux  armv5tel16:35
Macernice16:35
ShadowJKN8x0?16:35
jacekowskithing is, once you have more than 16-32G of internal flash16:35
Macerthe synology web ui is eyeos heh16:35
Macerno. synology diskstation16:35
Maceri am wondering if built bins will work on the n8x0 tho16:36
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jacekowskithen you can live without sd card16:36
jacekowskiMacer: it's not eyeos16:36
jacekowskiMacer: similiar principle but it's nowhere close to eyeos16:36
Macerjacekowski: no? looks incredibly similar16:36
jacekowskino16:36
jacekowskieyeos is in php16:36
Maceras in worse or better or completely different?16:36
jacekowskitheir stuff is in perl16:36
jacekowskicompletly different16:36
jacekowskiit's mostly management software16:36
Macerheh16:36
jacekowskirather than OS16:36
ShadowJKThe benefit of SD card is that when the device fails to boot for mysteric reasons and troubleshooting is prevented by aegis&friends, you can just take out the SD card and get your data. :)16:36
Maceri dont consider php an "os" :)16:37
Macerbut their ui is nice16:37
Macerpretty awesome tbh16:37
jacekowskido you have diskstation?16:37
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Maceryes16:37
Macerjust got it friday16:37
jacekowskiwhich one/16:37
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: exactly16:37
Macerds411j16:37
jacekowskihmm16:37
jacekowskihave you got HDDs for it as well16:37
ShadowJK(Nokia Care has a trained army of monkeys that extract the internal emmc chips and hten hit it with a hammer). data^Wsilicon recovery16:37
Macerram is in short supply on it16:38
Macerbut 1 hd went 40MB/s16:38
Macerno16:38
Macergetting some this week16:38
Macer4x3TB16:38
jacekowski128M is plenty for that sort of device16:38
Macerbut flooding in taiwan is hurting me emotionally to buy them16:38
jacekowskii had WD hdd16:38
jacekowskinetwork hdd16:38
jacekowskiMacer: i bought mine like month before that flood16:38
Macerthey are 30%+ now16:38
ShadowJKI had a NSLU2, 332M ram.. seemed to be quite sufficient16:38
Macer250 is the cheapest16:39
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DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: for some reason romBL first tries USB, then uSD(!), then finally NAND16:39
jacekowskiMacer: buy just 216:39
Maceri couldhave gotten them for 150 a while back :(16:39
jacekowskiMacer: you can always add them later16:39
Macercan i add to raid 5?16:39
jacekowskiyes16:39
jacekowskiMacer: and 40M/s is bit slow for that device16:40
jacekowskii managed to get a lot more out of it16:40
Macerit was a pos hd :)16:40
Macerand only 1 80G i dug out16:40
Macerto test16:40
Maceri am sure a raid config will go faster.. does it use md?16:40
jacekowskiyes16:40
jacekowskiand lvm16:40
jacekowski1048576000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 9.67831 s, 108 MB/s16:40
Macermd is kind of lame isnt it?16:41
jacekowskiwhy?16:41
Macerdoesnt it have cpu overhead?16:41
jacekowskiit does16:41
Macerand ram?16:41
jacekowskino16:41
jacekowskijust cpu16:41
Macerhow bad?16:41
jacekowskiand well, that cpu doesn't have anything else to do16:41
Maceri wanted to run services ;)16:41
Macerit has a ton of them16:41
jacekowskiMacer: 1048576000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 8.75929 s, 120 MB/s16:42
jacekowskithat's raid516:42
jacekowski120MB/s16:42
Macernice!16:42
Macerfull gbit huh?16:42
jacekowskithat's locally16:42
jacekowskion device16:42
Maceroh16:42
jacekowskiDiskStation> dd if=/dev/md3 of=/dev/null bs=1M count=100016:42
DocScrutinizer51hoiw does cpu overhead matter as long as it's faster than the net bw of hdd?16:42
Macerkinda slow :)16:42
Macerlol16:42
jacekowskiMacer: well, HDD only delivers 100M/s16:42
Maceri mean it is ok for a $300 device16:43
jacekowskiit delivers more than i've ever managed to get out of 3k dell md3000u16:43
Macerhttp://tech.rancorous.net16:43
Maceri have old and new pics there16:43
jacekowskiin terms of sequential reads16:43
Macermy old server is a 10 hard drive beast16:43
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jacekowskiMacer: you really want to get normal bash on it16:44
Maceri figured they would have at least thrown in a small processor to help the raid16:44
jacekowskiMacer: and stuff like that16:44
Maceri tried!16:44
Macerssh wont connect using /opt/bin/bash16:44
jacekowski?16:44
jacekowskiworks for me16:44
Macerdon't know whats up with that16:44
Macernot me for some reason16:44
jacekowskihave you installed everything correctly?16:44
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Macerwhat was there to install?16:45
Maceripkg install bash :)16:45
jacekowskiso you've got ipkg working?16:45
Macerevery time i try to connect as a user with bash in /etc/passwd it denies the login16:45
jacekowski/etc/shells16:46
DocScrutinizerprolly bash missing in /etc/shells16:46
jacekowskiis bash in there16:46
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Macerhm16:46
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DocScrutinizerbash missing there is what saves most people messing with that from a bootloop on N90016:46
DocScrutinizerat least it used to16:47
Macer /opt/bin/bash wasnt but /bin/bash was16:47
Macerand i cp bash to /bin16:47
DocScrutinizerback in times of pre-PR1.2, never checked since16:47
Macerbut let me try /opt/bin/bash16:47
Macerand see what happens16:47
DocScrutinizerWUT?16:48
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DocScrutinizer/opt/bin/bash is a magnitude more gasheaded idea than /usr/bin/bash16:48
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DocScrutinizershells clearly belong into /bin, nowhere else. Esp if you consider to use one of those as login shell16:49
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Macerit is because ipkg pkgs are "optional" :)16:51
DocScrutinizerand as your PATH usually isn't supposed to have /opt/bin at all, you will frequently want to get symlinks from /bin to /opt/bin for those pkgs that actually may go there16:51
DocScrutinizermeans calling anything via FQN /opt/bin/* is usually odd16:52
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DocScrutinizerunless it's another component of same package that acquires knowledge about where the package lives on a dynamic way16:52
Macermace@omnia's password:16:53
MacerPermission denied, please try again.16:53
Macersee? :)16:53
DocScrutinizeryour login shell is invalid?16:54
DocScrutinizere.g not in /etc/shells ?16:55
Maceri checked. it is16:55
Maceri just put it there16:55
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Macerso im lost ;)16:56
Maceris there some ssh setting that would prevent this?16:56
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jacekowskiMacer: just add bash to your .profile16:58
Macerlol16:58
DocScrutinizerhaha, nice16:58
r00t|n900exec bash16:59
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Macertypical maemo hackery there jacekowski :)16:59
DocScrutinizerso bash executes .profile and starts bash, which executes .profile and...16:59
Maceri would like to find the underlying issue :)16:59
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r00t|n900typical unix hackery16:59
Macerash executes profile.. the bash... then... is more like it17:00
DocScrutinizerI can see this will work excellent17:00
Macerit uses ash by default17:00
Maceri should just replace the ash bin hahaha17:00
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Macerthat would be even more ghetto17:00
DocScrutinizermaking bin/sh a link to bash is not that much ghetto17:01
DocScrutinizerbash is prepared to get installed/used that way17:01
nealHere are my results: reading/writing from an ext3 partition on the microsd card: 15.7/5.5 mb/s; from internal flash: 7.5/20.3.17:02
DocScrutinizerof course you should make damn sure you got a sane conservative bash installation then, not some shit in /oipt17:02
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DocScrutinizerhalley:~ # ll /bin/sh17:05
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DocScrutinizerlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Dec 16  2009 /bin/sh -> bash17:05
DocScrutinizerhalley:~ # which sh17:05
DocScrutinizer/usr/bin/sh17:05
DocScrutinizerhalley:~ # ll `which sh`17:05
DocScrutinizerlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Dec 16  2009 /usr/bin/sh -> /bin/bash17:05
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DocScrutinizerhalley:~ # whichgrep sh17:07
DocScrutinizer/usr/bin/sh17:07
DocScrutinizer/bin/sh17:07
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DocScrutinizerhalley:~ # cat `which whichgrep`17:09
DocScrutinizer#!/bin/sh17:09
DocScrutinizerfind `echo $PATH|tr ":" " "` -name "$1"17:09
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: Macer: http://zsh.sourceforge.net/FAQ/zshfaq01.html#l8 ;-D17:31
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Maceryeah im lost17:43
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Shapeshifter???18:34
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neal[50242.337280] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p1): ext3_journal_start_sb: Detected aborted journal18:52
neallovely18:52
DocScrutinizerugh18:53
nealthat's the memory card18:53
nealbut I'm guessing the problem is the n900's software18:54
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nealthat was a wasted 50 euros :/18:58
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DocScrutinizeruSD with IO errors / bad blocks ?19:00
nealI don't think it is the usd card.19:01
nealI think it is the software19:01
DocScrutinizerwhich software?19:01
neale.g., having to use the fixed omap_hsmmc module19:01
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DocScrutinizerooh, you refer to your tests as of above19:03
nealyes, I was just doing another test and it didn't work because the file system was suddenly read-only19:03
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Macerweird19:34
Macerroot can ssh in and bash works19:34
Macera user gets permission denied19:35
Macerbash is in /etc/shells19:35
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Maceris there some weird sshd setting which would deny a user a shell?19:35
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Sicelomaybe user has no pass19:42
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Macerthe user does19:43
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Macerdoes pam affect using a shell?19:43
Macerhm.. doesnt seem so19:45
MacerSicelo: you may be right.. maybe for some reason or another sshd isn't passing a pw over to pam?19:47
mgedminMacer, locking a user account with passwd -l forbids ssh logins too19:47
mgedminin later Maemo releases (and Harmattan) the user account is locked by default19:48
mgedminget root, vi /etc/passwd, replace the user:! with user:* (or the other way around, I don't remember), then you can ssh in19:48
mgedminor passwd -d user, (IIRC)19:49
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merlin1991yep passwd -d works for me19:52
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Macerjacekowski: i figured it out20:35
Macerthe synology sshd sucks20:35
Macerhad to install openssh20:35
Macerbut i messed it up and locked root out... they have differend sshd_config files20:35
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badcloudis there a package manager which can select multiple packages (to install/uninstall) via gui?20:58
HaXeriwhy gui21:00
NIN101FAM.21:02
badcloudHaXeri: doesn't have to be21:02
badcloudso... apt-get21:02
badcloudthanks21:02
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befr0dFAM is awesome21:05
badcloudnoted :)21:05
merlin1991FAM comes from deeper layers of hell21:09
NIN101so we are bound to use the superfast HAM otherwise we risk fscking the system. Great.21:11
merlin1991exactly :D21:15
NIN101:-)21:15
merlin1991one could do patches for ham though21:16
merlin1991I guess a lot of hams processing can be cached at some point21:16
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NIN101I think it's ok to install stuff like GSM/3G switcher over FAM, but I would never use apt, FAM etc. to update CSSU, install kernels etc. If one wants to be on the safe side, he should use HAM and nothing else.  Using something different is the users own problem and choice.21:23
Sicelobut ham wasn't able to downgrade kernel for me. apt was only option, and went well21:25
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merlin1991NIN101 the problem with fapman is that it runs apt-get autoremove21:33
merlin1991wich is known to be b0rked on the n921:33
merlin1991err n90021:33
merlin1991apt ist just fine when you know when to restart the device afterwards21:34
NIN101once an "apt-get upgrade" _killed_ my system :-). every program segfaulted.21:38
Sicelo;)21:38
Sicelobtw, since apt-get upgrade does the actual upgrading, what is cli command to check which packages are upgradeable, without actually doing so? (or is it apt-get -s upgrade?)21:40
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neal-s does a dry run21:41
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merlin1991Sicelo: I use -s to check21:47
merlin1991dunno if there's a better way21:47
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Siceloi'm rtfm now to see21:55
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Siceloapt-get -u upgrade, according to manual.. but, hmm21:59
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nealthe woodchuck packages need one more (positive) vote to enter extras.  Can someone please review them?  Thanks.  http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/murmeltier/0.4~20111102-7/ (and s/murmeltier/apt-woodchuck/)22:08
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DocScrutinizer51~aegis22:30
infobothttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif22:30
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DocScrutinizer51unrelated ^22:35
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: if I were to connect two batteries to my n900, what would I have to do? is it possible to just connect them using Y cables to each pin or is it more conplicated?22:37
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: or to get to the point: I'm pondering if it is possible to hot-swap batteries22:37
Shapeshifterin theory22:37
nealShapeshifter: there are a couple of posts about both on talk.maemo.org22:38
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Shapeshifterneal: ah yes, found some22:39
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SpeedEvilConnecting two batteries of different charge levels is a very bad dea22:39
SpeedEvilIt may cause very large currents to flow, and internal fuses to blow.22:39
ShadowJK+ and - connected together, third pin only from one battery. Batteries must be same state of charge when you connect them together (this means you can't connect batteries together for purpose of hotswapping)22:40
ShadowJKand by "+ and - connected together" I mean + from bat1 to + on bat2, etc22:40
Shapeshiftermh, too bad22:40
Shapeshifterha I didn't expect hot swapping while actually connected to a wall charger to be such a big deal22:41
ShapeshifterI assumed *that* would simply work22:41
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ShadowJKIt's not able to consume sufficient amount of power through that path :)22:42
ShadowJKOr not able to regulate it fast enough22:43
ShadowJKso it only works if no gsm/3g activity goes on when the battery is removed22:43
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ShadowJK(and by default the device shuts down if it notices battery removed)22:43
Shapeshifterthat's a shame.22:44
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ShadowJKI do occasionally do hotswap though22:45
ShadowJKIf I come home from work and have to leave again for a longer time, I might hotswap in a charged battery22:46
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ShapeshifterShadowJK: from cars I know that there are things called 'isolators' which make it possible to use 2 batteries in one car with one battery not draining the other one (i.e. no cross-battery energy flow). any idea if something like that exists in miniature?22:46
SpeedEvilIn principle, yes.22:47
SpeedEvilIn practice, it's more difficult with low voltages.22:47
SpeedEvilAnd nobody makes them22:47
Shapeshiftermh.22:47
ShadowJKactually..22:50
SpeedEvilAnd yes, there are dieal diode chips which would work22:50
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ShadowJKI was just going to paste link to one :O22:52
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ShadowJKideal diode search on ebay gives 1 result (but no the right thing), so nobody makes ready circuits :)22:55
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rlyI tried tuxracer just for fun. I managed to exit in an unconventional way. Is there also a conventional way to exit a full-screen command line application?23:09
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ShadowJKctrl-backspace?23:16
ShadowJKcamera door? :)23:16
badcloudanyone here installed 'remind' on their n900?23:16
badcloudit's my calendar of choice but I ****ed up my system trying to install it via dpkg23:17
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SpeedEvilcamera button, then exit camera app drops you to desktop23:19
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rlySpeedEvil: pressing the 'turn off' button also does that.23:59

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