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| DocScrutinizer51 | rly: USB networking is not a promoted property of the device, so SIP not working over USB network is neither. But that's why we all decided to get a maemo device and not an iPhone: we are usually free to fix it based on community effort | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| rly | DocScrutinizer51: that might be true, but it is still not acceptable for software to fail silently. | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | though I'm not yet convinced there's actually any "bug" in this, might as well be a missing config tweak | 00:10 |
| rly | Programs are theorem proving machines in my world. | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | rly: I tend to agree with you on error reporting in maemo usually being suboptimal | 00:11 |
| * cehteh rather wonders why SIP over wlan is sometimes jittery | 00:12 | |
| rly | cehteh: isn't anything over wlan jittery? | 00:13 |
| rly | everything* | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hey cehteh | 00:13 |
| ShadowJK | When using USB networking, does the status area thingis think internet connection exists? | 00:14 |
| cehteh | hi doc | 00:14 |
| rly | ShadowJK: for me it does. | 00:14 |
| * cehteh is quite busy these days, we're moving on thursday | 00:14 | |
| rly | DocScrutinizer51: thanks for your help. Too bad we haven't reached a full solution yet. Perhaps next time (which won't be soon). | 00:15 |
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| luke-jr | [17:08:43] <DocScrutinizer51> rly: USB networking is not a promoted property of the device, so SIP not working over USB network is neither. But that's why we all decided to get a maemo device and not an iPhone: we are usually free to fix it based on community effort <-- except we're NOT really | 00:18 |
| luke-jr | unless "fix" means "rewrite the entire stack from scratch" | 00:18 |
| luke-jr | [17:12:56] * cehteh rather wonders why SIP over wlan is sometimes jittery <-- wlan seems to have inconsistent latency when there's other devices using it | 00:18 |
| rly | luke-jr: so, I should have gotten an OpenMoko? ^^ | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | rly: OpenMoko never worked afaik | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | I think N900 is a target device for fso now, so... | 00:20 |
| rly | ??fso | 00:20 |
| rly | ~fso | 00:20 |
| infobot | rumour has it, fso is the freesmartphone.org mobile devices middleware. | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | mine died before I got to properly try it :| | 00:20 |
| beford | hey, what would you guys consider the best twitter client available for n900? | 00:21 |
| luke-jr | Twitter sucks | 00:21 |
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| beford | no, you :3 | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | wlan basically lets a device hog the channel until it gets its message through. On wimax every device wanting to transmit/receive is assigned a limited amount of time regardless of how much data they manage to push through during that time | 00:22 |
| rly | ShadowJK: and does it already work? | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | no idea | 00:22 |
| rly | ShadowJK: is it funded? | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | but my point was that it's probably at same level as a freerunner | 00:22 |
| rly | luke-jr just said that it didn't really work. Not very encouraging. | 00:23 |
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| dangergrrl | so, i didn't find any working directions to tether the n900's wifi from a wifiess desktop | 00:57 |
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| dangergrrl | i have working directions now | 00:57 |
| dangergrrl | should i make a wiki account? | 00:57 |
| Sicelo | yeah ;) | 00:59 |
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| dangergrrl | well, i wanted to know how to get it to work, someone else ,ight :) | 01:07 |
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| jonwil | hmmm, someone got the source code for the certificate manager applet... | 01:33 |
| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79957 | 01:33 |
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| ShadowJK | <Pali> Hello, I got source code of certman control panel applet from NOKIA | 01:36 |
| ShadowJK | <Pali> source code is GPL, so I published it here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79957 | 01:36 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 01:37 |
| jonwil | Hopefully the CSSU can pull this in and use it instead of shipping the binaries | 01:40 |
| jonwil | Ok how did this guy get that code and is there anything else we can get? :P | 01:40 |
| mr_jrt | Wow. Shouldn't be so surprising...but it is, sadly. | 01:44 |
| * jonwil reads backscroll | 01:45 | |
| * jonwil sees talk about BME code | 01:45 | |
| Macer | hahaha | 01:46 |
| jonwil | Of all the closed source things on the N900, there are things that would be FAR more usefull as open-source than BME | 01:46 |
| Macer | jonwil: like hildon? | 01:46 |
| Macer | all of it | 01:46 |
| Macer | :) | 01:46 |
| jonwil | like closed hildon-input-method bits yes | 01:46 |
| jonwil | and like connectivity UI | 01:46 |
| jonwil | and like ICD2 | 01:46 |
| Macer | connectivity ui consists of what? | 01:47 |
| jonwil | things like the status bar gizmos for cellular and network status | 01:47 |
| jonwil | and the "phone" and "internet" control panels | 01:47 |
| Macer | just the settings subsection to configure the wifi and phone networks | 01:47 |
| jonwil | and all that stuff | 01:47 |
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| Macer | is it not possible to make a new one? | 01:47 |
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| jonwil | no, there is a lot more to it than it looks | 01:48 |
| jonwil | this includes stuff for network selection | 01:48 |
| jonwil | and a bunch of other stuff | 01:48 |
| Macer | i would assume they are protective of the modem stuff especially | 01:48 |
| jonwil | bluetooth is also tied into it | 01:48 |
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| jonwil | all this stuff talks to the modem via the cellular services daemon | 01:48 |
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| Macer | since in the wrong hands such hardware use could be a bad day for gsm providers | 01:48 |
| jonwil | which is something that doesn't need to be open-sourced, just documented (i.e. the dbus interface to it) | 01:49 |
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| jonwil | The secret cell modem stuff should be in the cellmo firmware | 01:49 |
| jonwil | MCE source code for Fremantle would be nice also :P | 01:49 |
| Macer | talking to the secret stuff sometimes gives away its secrets | 01:49 |
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| Macer | ;) | 01:49 |
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| jonwil | ok, so publish all the dbus interfaces except those that are sensitive in some way :P | 01:50 |
| mr_jrt | I thought all the bluetooth stuff was just bluez (i.e. open)? | 01:50 |
| Macer | i cant believe this n900 i got for $250 from ebay is working so well | 01:50 |
| jonwil | yeah bluetooth is bluez | 01:50 |
| jonwil | and stuff | 01:50 |
| Macer | from cellphonesforever :) | 01:51 |
| jonwil | but there are connectivity widgets and things (like the bluetooth status bar icon) that are closed | 01:51 |
| Macer | the evil n900 seller hahaha | 01:51 |
| Macer | mine works beyond great | 01:51 |
| Macer | so they should really jusr make it all seperate | 01:52 |
| Macer | so the modem stuff is isolated | 01:52 |
| Macer | and you have access to the rest of the hardware to make a better ui for it? | 01:52 |
| ShadowJK | There's that battery monitor widget replacement. We know how to talk to the hardware, there's code that talks to the hardware charging and to the battery fuel gauge. We don't need bme, at all. | 01:52 |
| jonwil | oh and also ofono (which is for meego and is open) has pretty much all the cell modem bits | 01:53 |
| Macer | i think the reason nokia has it closed in such a way is to prevent the community doing a better job than they did | 01:53 |
| jonwil | including anything "secret" | 01:53 |
| Macer | and turning maemo into something people want :) | 01:53 |
| Macer | lol | 01:53 |
| Macer | because then people will ask... why couldnt nokia do that when they were doing it? | 01:53 |
| Macer | especially the ui ... if you made the ui something as intuitive for the cattle as android or ios... people at nokia are getting fired | 01:54 |
| jonwil | I can easily come up with a list of ~10 pieces of software that, if open sourced or devel/documentation/etc packages released, would really benefit the N900 and ongoing work by myself and others. | 01:54 |
| Macer | write to nokia and ask :& | 01:54 |
| Macer | :) | 01:55 |
| Macer | worse they'll say is no | 01:55 |
| jonwil | I wouldn't know who to ask | 01:55 |
| Macer | send it to elop | 01:55 |
| jonwil | or what to say :P | 01:55 |
| Macer | lol | 01:55 |
| ShadowJK | there was a "process" once for doing it via bugzilla | 01:55 |
| jonwil | yeah, there are about 20 unresolved bugs, most of which have no response | 01:56 |
| jonwil | or maybe just a generic "fremantle is dead" response | 01:56 |
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| LaoLang_cool | How to find a contact with the phone number in contacts? | 01:58 |
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| jonwil | ooh good, I think http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1079565&postcount=4 means I can include libconnui.so and libconnui_cell.so in my libconnui-dev package and not force users to have to copy those files from the phone... | 01:59 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Is it possible to find a contact in contacts if I only know the cell phone number? | 02:04 |
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| jonwil | oh well, I can remove "Clone certificate manager applet" from my "possible-todo" list now :) | 02:10 |
| Macer | damnit | 02:16 |
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| Macer | i need 4 3TB hard drives | 02:16 |
| Macer | stupid taiwan | 02:16 |
| Macer | i bet that near-slave labor isn't looking so cheap now is it? | 02:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | LaoLang_cool: sure, as dialer does same on inbound calls | 02:27 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer51: how to do it? | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mompls | 02:28 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer51: what does mompls mean? | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~mompl | 02:29 |
| infobot | it has been said that mompl is a stupid short form for "moment please" | 02:29 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer: oh, thank you | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | sth along http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60526&page=3 | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=990571#post990571 | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | just edit a few lines like the one >> if c.get_property("nickname") == options.nick_name | 02:35 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer: wow, so technologic | 02:38 |
| LaoLang_cool | I like this way ;p | 02:38 |
| LaoLang_cool | is it possible to get sms from cli? | 02:39 |
| LaoLang_cool | So I can search for some string in sms | 02:39 |
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| NIN101 | LaoLang_cool: you can access the sqlite3 database in /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger | 02:58 |
| jonwil | anyone know what "acting dead" means? | 03:00 |
| LaoLang_cool | NIN101: too professional for me... | 03:02 |
| LaoLang_cool | How to tar files excluding the soft links in current dir? | 03:04 |
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| * jonwil will talk to pali next time he is on, find out how he got certman applet source and whether there is other stuff we can ask for via the same means | 03:16 | |
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| * LaoLang_cool is looking for a pic viewer that can show the original picture size... | 03:26 | |
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| jonwil | who knows, maybe we can convince nokia to release connui-common, connui-cellular, connui-internet, connui-wlan & connui-bluetooth. Or libimlayouts & hildon-input-method-widgets. | 03:42 |
| jonwil | Now that we know there is a possible way to at least ask, its better than it was before :P | 03:42 |
| NIN101 | LaoLang_cool: find dirname | while read file ; do [ -L $file ] || echo $file ; done | sed '1d' > packing ; tar cvz -T packing -f archive.tar.gz | 03:47 |
| LaoLang_cool | NIN101: Thank you guru! | 03:49 |
| NIN101 | yw | 03:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | jonwil: act_dead is init 2(?) aka charging state when device is "off" | 04:01 |
| jonwil | ok | 04:01 |
| NIN101 | iirc init 5 | 04:01 |
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| merlin1991 | jonwil: I wouldn't get my hopes up | 04:07 |
| jonwil | yeah I am not | 04:07 |
| merlin1991 | the source pali has isn't on par with the released version of the applet | 04:07 |
| jonwil | but hey, it certainly cant hurt to try | 04:07 |
| jonwil | hmmm ok | 04:08 |
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| jonwil | but even incomplete or older source would be extremely valuable to me in some cases :P | 04:16 |
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| luke-jr | jonwil: N810 BME and gpsdriver would be invaluable | 04:22 |
| jonwil | that has even less chance of happening than anything for the N900 | 04:22 |
| luke-jr | but… can't hurt to ask? :D | 04:23 |
| jonwil | :P | 04:23 |
| jonwil | in any case when I see pali, I will find out what happened and how he got code (and what the story is with the code not patching PR1.3/PR1.3.1) | 04:25 |
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| jonwil | it does mean though that the code isn't that usefull for CSSU | 04:27 |
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| LaoLang_cool | hi, which files are the sms's db? I want to backup it | 04:45 |
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| * SpeedEvil imagines the whole internal repository leaking. | 04:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer | you must be dreaming | 05:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw no worries about Nokia ever disclosing bme src, they don't even dare to give specs on how to *charge* the battery | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | as if they would be (more) liable of any damage done when they tell hackers what to _avoid_ | 05:04 |
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| * jonwil doesnt understand why anyone cares about BME code | 05:05 | |
| jonwil | I have no wish whatsoever to mess with BME | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I asked several times "what is the NTC sensor reading for bat temp where we should shut down for safety reasons, to avoid battery cell overtemp?" - A: "we mustn't tell as we don't want to take responsibility" | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have no wish to look at this abomination called bme src | 05:06 |
| jonwil | None of the bits of code I want seem to be particularly risky in terms of security or safety or legal issues | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's definitely *nothing* in it I'd want to know about | 05:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK lives happily now since > 1 year with letting bq24150 charger chip just do its job, rather than trying to teach it how to do it better like bme does | 05:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw please help me out, what's been the major argument for meego? wasn't it sth like "we'll do it THE RIGHT WAY[TM] this time, no closed source anymore"? Well, fine, now we have a mostly published hildon and a closed source swipe, and bme is as closed as it ever was X-P | 05:19 |
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| jonwil | Harmattan is not MeeGo | 05:20 |
| jonwil | MeeGo is as open as Nokia can legally get it | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know, but then WTF did they do all the time? | 05:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | where from are all those closed bits of swipe/MTF? | 05:22 |
| jonwil | no idea | 05:22 |
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| jonwil | :) | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | what a major brainf*ck | 05:25 |
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| * DocScrutinizer notices he gets his grumpy 15 minutes and waves a cyal8r | 05:26 | |
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| * jonwil cant understand why people seem to think that having the MCE source code is of any benefit | 05:45 | |
| jonwil | like the guy on TMO who said "I could probably be very happy with pr 1.1 BME source" | 05:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | It'd be useful for a proper replacement. | 06:18 |
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| LaoLang_cool | hello | 07:16 |
| LaoLang_cool | looking for a picture viewer, any recommended? | 07:17 |
| robbiethe1st | Uh, stock one? | 07:17 |
| slonopotamus | robbiethe1st: that woud be too simple | 07:18 |
| LaoLang_cool | robbiethe1st: stock one? | 07:18 |
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| LaoLang_cool | ... | 07:18 |
| LaoLang_cool | oh | 07:18 |
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| slonopotamus | do we have source for retutime from initfs? | 08:06 |
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| jonwil | Do you mean for N900 or N8xx? | 08:18 |
| slonopotamus | N900 has initfs? | 08:18 |
| jonwil | I cant find any indications that retutime on the N810 is open source | 08:21 |
| slonopotamus | yep. sad. | 08:25 |
| * slonopotamus tries to figure out what to do with clock on his n800 with 3.1 kernel | 08:26 | |
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| pabs3 | jonwil: what does retutime do? | 08:49 |
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| jonwil | no idea | 08:49 |
| jonwil | google seems to suggest that its clock related | 08:49 |
| jonwil | i.e. it helps set the clock properly | 08:49 |
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| pabs3 | seems to be a proprietary userspace util for doing what the kernel RTC drivers do I guess | 08:50 |
| jonwil | yeah something for doing things to avoid needing to document certain things about the clock logic | 08:52 |
| jonwil | I am guessing | 08:52 |
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| pabs3 | this lwn comment seems to suggest there is kernel code to replace that: http://lwn.net/Articles/230227/ | 08:53 |
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| pabs3 | and it seems like there is qemu code to emulate them here: http://www.weilnetz.de/qemu-doc/ARM-System-emulator.html | 08:56 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Hello, how to auto-solve depend issue with dpkg -i ? | 09:11 |
| LaoLang_cool | Is there an option to let dpkg auto install the depend? | 09:12 |
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| pabs3 | LaoLang_cool: apt-get -f install | 09:14 |
| pabs3 | LaoLang_cool: dpkg doesn't have any dependency resolving, thats in apt | 09:15 |
| LaoLang_cool | pabs3: thank you, that's it | 09:17 |
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| cityLights | morning | 10:26 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Hello, morning there. How to invoke a app to view a pic file in xterm? How to run a app to listen to a music file in xterm? | 10:50 |
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| Sicelo | phone-control is easiest package to do both things | 11:07 |
| Sicelo | if u want 'hard' way, check out Phone Control page in wiki | 11:07 |
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| woldrich | LaoLang_cool, 2) mplayer | 11:09 |
| LaoLang_cool | woldrich: seems mplayer is buggy on n900, vol setting will make it no responce | 11:09 |
| woldrich | works fine for me | 11:09 |
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| LaoLang_cool | woldrich: press 0 and 9 to adjust vol is fine for you? | 11:10 |
| LaoLang_cool | hmm.. | 11:10 |
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| woldrich | LaoLang_cool, yes, with -ao pulse | 11:13 |
| LaoLang_cool | woldrich: oh, maybe it's the problem, I will try, thank you | 11:13 |
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| mihu | Hi. The "Maps" application is not starting up any more. When I run "nokia-maps" from X terminal, I see a couply of messages, but then it gets stuck after "Plugin::Setup()", then "device language: GER" and then "set def coord ...". After that it just hangs. Of course I cannot remember fiddling with anything that might cause this. Any ideas? | 11:30 |
| LaoLang_cool | woldrich: thank you, works fine! | 11:35 |
| LaoLang_cool | mplayer -ao pulse | 11:35 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: heya, got another weird one - i pushed libqtm-12+git*fremantle5 but it kinda didn't appear in the user interface | 11:50 |
| achipa | also libqtm-12 seems to have lost the promotion block so it's borked in general as it propagated to testing | 11:50 |
| jonwil | I have never been able to run nokia-maps from xterminal, only from control panel | 11:50 |
| jonwil | I mean app view | 11:51 |
| jonwil | not control panel | 11:51 |
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| MaceSyn | :) ... | 11:57 |
| MaceSyn | omnia> ipkg list gcc | 11:57 |
| MaceSyn | gcc - 4.2.3-1 - The GNU Compiler Collection. | 11:57 |
| MaceSyn | ok.. a native working gcc on a synology disk station but not on an n900? | 11:57 |
| mihu | jonwil: If I do that, then "maps" will never start up either. It will keep showing that scroll bar forever. | 11:59 |
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| ruskie | MaceSyn, so add the sdk repo and install it | 12:06 |
| crashanddie | MaceSyn, there's gcc on the n900 | 12:07 |
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| MaceSyn | crashanddie: a whole dev environment on the n900? | 12:08 |
| crashanddie | sure | 12:08 |
| MaceSyn | using maemo.. so you don't have to cross compile in sb? | 12:08 |
| MaceSyn | :) | 12:09 |
| MaceSyn | wow really? does it work? | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | of course | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | that's how liqbase was developed | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | entirely on-device. | 12:09 |
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| MaceSyn | nice | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | it's linux, innit? | 12:09 |
| MaceSyn | what about a functional dpkg? | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | I thought dpkg was on there? | 12:10 |
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| MaceSyn | i'm asking ;) | 12:10 |
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| MaceSyn | that's kind of neat.. so you're saying i can install dpkg and gcc and get some src and build ? :) | 12:11 |
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| MaceSyn | i will try that out | 12:11 |
| ruskie | dpkg is already on there iirc | 12:11 |
| MaceSyn | i remember there being problems building and packaging on device | 12:11 |
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| crashanddie | MaceSyn, compiling C++ is very long. | 12:12 |
| crashanddie | MaceSyn, C code is kind of OK. | 12:12 |
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| jonwil | its possible to compile on device but it uses up large amounts of space to do so | 12:29 |
| jonwil | because of all the libs you need | 12:29 |
| jonwil | and all the headers | 12:29 |
| jonwil | and tools | 12:29 |
| jonwil | my include folder alone is about 71 megs | 12:30 |
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| cityLights | DocScrutinizer! | 13:42 |
| cityLights | waht up dud? | 13:42 |
| cityLights | remeber me asking about dnsmasq yesterday | 13:45 |
| cityLights | ? | 13:45 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: ping - planet.maemo.org doesn't seem to have updated with http://mwkn.net/issues.rss | 13:51 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: The maintenance node is down, notified the isp. | 13:52 |
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| * RST38h yawns | 14:01 | |
| vdv | i'm trying to build (from qtcreator) an app for a maemo5 target, but since dependency libs (hunspell, vorbis) are not present in madde, build fails. how can fix that? | 14:05 |
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| jonwil | Who was it that was working on alternative charging options for the N900 (i.e. using the charging chip instead of using BME)? | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: ? | 14:13 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 14:14 |
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| * jonwil is surprised at the effort Nokia have gone with the notification system. They have an open source daemon (hildon-sv-notification-daemon) that talks to a closed source shared library (libhildon-plugins-notify-sv.so) which then talks to a closed source daemon (nsv-decoder-service) | 14:59 | |
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| jonwil | aha, nsv-decoder-service exists only to decode compressed audio into wav files | 15:12 |
| jonwil | and isn't used if the wav file already exists | 15:12 |
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| pabs3 | jonwil: I guess it uses some hardware decoding thing | 15:17 |
| jonwil | well its making gstreamer calls | 15:17 |
| jonwil | so yeah it must be doing something like that | 15:17 |
| jonwil | what surprises me is that Nokia felt the need to keep this particular item closed | 15:18 |
| jonwil | given that I dont see it doing anything much other than handling notifications | 15:18 |
| jonwil | like calls and SMS | 15:18 |
| jonwil | to e.g. play ringtones | 15:18 |
| jonwil | or vibrate | 15:18 |
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| jonwil | although the more I look at it, the more it looks clonable | 15:20 |
| jonwil | which would be nice | 15:20 |
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| LaoLang_cool | hi, any recommended timer for n900? | 15:33 |
| LaoLang_cool | timer, alarm | 15:33 |
| HaXeri | the app called "Clock" | 15:38 |
| LaoLang_cool | HaXeri: the built-in clock? Too limit, how to count down/up? | 15:39 |
| LaoLang_cool | and I can't see the second, it's only precise up to minute | 15:39 |
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| mihu | Hi. Does anybody know which clock rates are supported by the SD card controller of the N900? UHS-I is certainly not supported, but HS mode? What is the maximum clock? | 15:54 |
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| * ShadowJK uses tickstill for counting down/up | 15:55 | |
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| SpeedEvil | mihu: 25MHz is used. | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure of the hardware maximums as I haven't been arsed. | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The hardware can easily do 12 meg a second read and write from SD. | 16:00 |
| mihu | SpeedEvil: Thanks. | 16:01 |
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| mihu | Anybody ever tried to hook up a SDIO card (for example a GPS received) to the N900 SD card slot? | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | The hardware supports it. | 16:02 |
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| mihu | SpeedEvil: Yes, I think so. One problem is that most cards are SD form factor, so you need a SD to micro SD adapter. Another thing that worries me is that the kernel is so old. | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes. | 16:05 |
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| LaoLang_cool | No timer good enough on n900? :( | 16:05 |
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| NIN101 | i like "stopish" | 16:08 |
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| LaoLang_cool | NIN101: thanks, it's simple and work :) | 16:13 |
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| neal | SpeedEvil: What card / workload did you get 12 mb/s on? | 16:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | old kingston 1G, and dd | 16:25 |
| neal | reading or writing? | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | both | 16:25 |
| neal | hmm | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | The actual 'real life' speed will vary, but this is mostly down to the card, not the n900 hardware. | 16:26 |
| neal | I still don't understand why I get 6mb/s with my n900 and 12mb/s with my thinkpad | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Good question. | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | H?ow are you testing it? | 16:26 |
| neal | I used dd | 16:26 |
| neal | I also used bonnie | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd ispect syslog, and see what it says about speeds. | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - top - check some other proces isn't busy at the same time | 16:28 |
| * DocScrutinizer moos at SpeedEvil | 16:28 | |
| neal | the system was idle | 16:28 |
| ShadowJK | iostat is nice, the parameter to optimize for is avgrq-sz | 16:28 |
| ShadowJK | (iostat is in sysstat) | 16:28 |
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| * DocScrutinizer has a deja-vu | 16:30 | |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders to find the copy of this convo in chanlog | 16:30 | |
| neal | we started this conversation a day or two ago, yes | 16:31 |
| mgedmin | get an n9 -- no sd card slot, no problem | 16:32 |
| neal | have one | 16:32 |
| neal | I don't like it :) | 16:32 |
| neal | I don't like the lack of hardware keyboard, the capacitive touch screen, swipe, aegis | 16:33 |
| neal | those are my main complaints | 16:33 |
| ShadowJK | I was going to test the screen in a store, but before I had managed to convince it to boot I was drawing too much attention from the storekeepers :) | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | haha | 16:34 |
| Macer | running on Linux armv5tel | 16:35 |
| Macer | nice | 16:35 |
| ShadowJK | N8x0? | 16:35 |
| jacekowski | thing is, once you have more than 16-32G of internal flash | 16:35 |
| Macer | the synology web ui is eyeos heh | 16:35 |
| Macer | no. synology diskstation | 16:35 |
| Macer | i am wondering if built bins will work on the n8x0 tho | 16:36 |
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| jacekowski | then you can live without sd card | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | Macer: it's not eyeos | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | Macer: similiar principle but it's nowhere close to eyeos | 16:36 |
| Macer | jacekowski: no? looks incredibly similar | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | no | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | eyeos is in php | 16:36 |
| Macer | as in worse or better or completely different? | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | their stuff is in perl | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | completly different | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | it's mostly management software | 16:36 |
| Macer | heh | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | rather than OS | 16:36 |
| ShadowJK | The benefit of SD card is that when the device fails to boot for mysteric reasons and troubleshooting is prevented by aegis&friends, you can just take out the SD card and get your data. :) | 16:36 |
| Macer | i dont consider php an "os" :) | 16:37 |
| Macer | but their ui is nice | 16:37 |
| Macer | pretty awesome tbh | 16:37 |
| jacekowski | do you have diskstation? | 16:37 |
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| Macer | yes | 16:37 |
| Macer | just got it friday | 16:37 |
| jacekowski | which one/ | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: exactly | 16:37 |
| Macer | ds411j | 16:37 |
| jacekowski | hmm | 16:37 |
| jacekowski | have you got HDDs for it as well | 16:37 |
| ShadowJK | (Nokia Care has a trained army of monkeys that extract the internal emmc chips and hten hit it with a hammer). data^Wsilicon recovery | 16:37 |
| Macer | ram is in short supply on it | 16:38 |
| Macer | but 1 hd went 40MB/s | 16:38 |
| Macer | no | 16:38 |
| Macer | getting some this week | 16:38 |
| Macer | 4x3TB | 16:38 |
| jacekowski | 128M is plenty for that sort of device | 16:38 |
| Macer | but flooding in taiwan is hurting me emotionally to buy them | 16:38 |
| jacekowski | i had WD hdd | 16:38 |
| jacekowski | network hdd | 16:38 |
| jacekowski | Macer: i bought mine like month before that flood | 16:38 |
| Macer | they are 30%+ now | 16:38 |
| ShadowJK | I had a NSLU2, 332M ram.. seemed to be quite sufficient | 16:38 |
| Macer | 250 is the cheapest | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: for some reason romBL first tries USB, then uSD(!), then finally NAND | 16:39 |
| jacekowski | Macer: buy just 2 | 16:39 |
| Macer | i couldhave gotten them for 150 a while back :( | 16:39 |
| jacekowski | Macer: you can always add them later | 16:39 |
| Macer | can i add to raid 5? | 16:39 |
| jacekowski | yes | 16:39 |
| jacekowski | Macer: and 40M/s is bit slow for that device | 16:40 |
| jacekowski | i managed to get a lot more out of it | 16:40 |
| Macer | it was a pos hd :) | 16:40 |
| Macer | and only 1 80G i dug out | 16:40 |
| Macer | to test | 16:40 |
| Macer | i am sure a raid config will go faster.. does it use md? | 16:40 |
| jacekowski | yes | 16:40 |
| jacekowski | and lvm | 16:40 |
| jacekowski | 1048576000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 9.67831 s, 108 MB/s | 16:40 |
| Macer | md is kind of lame isnt it? | 16:41 |
| jacekowski | why? | 16:41 |
| Macer | doesnt it have cpu overhead? | 16:41 |
| jacekowski | it does | 16:41 |
| Macer | and ram? | 16:41 |
| jacekowski | no | 16:41 |
| jacekowski | just cpu | 16:41 |
| Macer | how bad? | 16:41 |
| jacekowski | and well, that cpu doesn't have anything else to do | 16:41 |
| Macer | i wanted to run services ;) | 16:41 |
| Macer | it has a ton of them | 16:41 |
| jacekowski | Macer: 1048576000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 8.75929 s, 120 MB/s | 16:42 |
| jacekowski | that's raid5 | 16:42 |
| jacekowski | 120MB/s | 16:42 |
| Macer | nice! | 16:42 |
| Macer | full gbit huh? | 16:42 |
| jacekowski | that's locally | 16:42 |
| jacekowski | on device | 16:42 |
| Macer | oh | 16:42 |
| jacekowski | DiskStation> dd if=/dev/md3 of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1000 | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hoiw does cpu overhead matter as long as it's faster than the net bw of hdd? | 16:42 |
| Macer | kinda slow :) | 16:42 |
| Macer | lol | 16:42 |
| jacekowski | Macer: well, HDD only delivers 100M/s | 16:42 |
| Macer | i mean it is ok for a $300 device | 16:43 |
| jacekowski | it delivers more than i've ever managed to get out of 3k dell md3000u | 16:43 |
| Macer | http://tech.rancorous.net | 16:43 |
| Macer | i have old and new pics there | 16:43 |
| jacekowski | in terms of sequential reads | 16:43 |
| Macer | my old server is a 10 hard drive beast | 16:43 |
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| jacekowski | Macer: you really want to get normal bash on it | 16:44 |
| Macer | i figured they would have at least thrown in a small processor to help the raid | 16:44 |
| jacekowski | Macer: and stuff like that | 16:44 |
| Macer | i tried! | 16:44 |
| Macer | ssh wont connect using /opt/bin/bash | 16:44 |
| jacekowski | ? | 16:44 |
| jacekowski | works for me | 16:44 |
| Macer | don't know whats up with that | 16:44 |
| Macer | not me for some reason | 16:44 |
| jacekowski | have you installed everything correctly? | 16:44 |
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| Macer | what was there to install? | 16:45 |
| Macer | ipkg install bash :) | 16:45 |
| jacekowski | so you've got ipkg working? | 16:45 |
| Macer | every time i try to connect as a user with bash in /etc/passwd it denies the login | 16:45 |
| jacekowski | /etc/shells | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly bash missing in /etc/shells | 16:46 |
| jacekowski | is bash in there | 16:46 |
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| Macer | hm | 16:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bash missing there is what saves most people messing with that from a bootloop on N900 | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least it used to | 16:47 |
| Macer | /opt/bin/bash wasnt but /bin/bash was | 16:47 |
| Macer | and i cp bash to /bin | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | back in times of pre-PR1.2, never checked since | 16:47 |
| Macer | but let me try /opt/bin/bash | 16:47 |
| Macer | and see what happens | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | WUT? | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /opt/bin/bash is a magnitude more gasheaded idea than /usr/bin/bash | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | shells clearly belong into /bin, nowhere else. Esp if you consider to use one of those as login shell | 16:49 |
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| Macer | it is because ipkg pkgs are "optional" :) | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | and as your PATH usually isn't supposed to have /opt/bin at all, you will frequently want to get symlinks from /bin to /opt/bin for those pkgs that actually may go there | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | means calling anything via FQN /opt/bin/* is usually odd | 16:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unless it's another component of same package that acquires knowledge about where the package lives on a dynamic way | 16:52 |
| Macer | mace@omnia's password: | 16:53 |
| Macer | Permission denied, please try again. | 16:53 |
| Macer | see? :) | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | your login shell is invalid? | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g not in /etc/shells ? | 16:55 |
| Macer | i checked. it is | 16:55 |
| Macer | i just put it there | 16:55 |
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| Macer | so im lost ;) | 16:56 |
| Macer | is there some ssh setting that would prevent this? | 16:56 |
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| jacekowski | Macer: just add bash to your .profile | 16:58 |
| Macer | lol | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, nice | 16:58 |
| r00t|n900 | exec bash | 16:59 |
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| Macer | typical maemo hackery there jacekowski :) | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | so bash executes .profile and starts bash, which executes .profile and... | 16:59 |
| Macer | i would like to find the underlying issue :) | 16:59 |
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| r00t|n900 | typical unix hackery | 16:59 |
| Macer | ash executes profile.. the bash... then... is more like it | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can see this will work excellent | 17:00 |
| Macer | it uses ash by default | 17:00 |
| Macer | i should just replace the ash bin hahaha | 17:00 |
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| Macer | that would be even more ghetto | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | making bin/sh a link to bash is not that much ghetto | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | bash is prepared to get installed/used that way | 17:01 |
| neal | Here are my results: reading/writing from an ext3 partition on the microsd card: 15.7/5.5 mb/s; from internal flash: 7.5/20.3. | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course you should make damn sure you got a sane conservative bash installation then, not some shit in /oipt | 17:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # ll /bin/sh | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Dec 16 2009 /bin/sh -> bash | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # which sh | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/sh | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # ll `which sh` | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Dec 16 2009 /usr/bin/sh -> /bin/bash | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # whichgrep sh | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/sh | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | /bin/sh | 17:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # cat `which whichgrep` | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | #!/bin/sh | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | find `echo $PATH|tr ":" " "` -name "$1" | 17:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: Macer: http://zsh.sourceforge.net/FAQ/zshfaq01.html#l8 ;-D | 17:31 |
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| Macer | yeah im lost | 17:43 |
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| Shapeshifter | ??? | 18:34 |
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| neal | [50242.337280] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p1): ext3_journal_start_sb: Detected aborted journal | 18:52 |
| neal | lovely | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ugh | 18:53 |
| neal | that's the memory card | 18:53 |
| neal | but I'm guessing the problem is the n900's software | 18:54 |
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| neal | that was a wasted 50 euros :/ | 18:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | uSD with IO errors / bad blocks ? | 19:00 |
| neal | I don't think it is the usd card. | 19:01 |
| neal | I think it is the software | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | which software? | 19:01 |
| neal | e.g., having to use the fixed omap_hsmmc module | 19:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh, you refer to your tests as of above | 19:03 |
| neal | yes, I was just doing another test and it didn't work because the file system was suddenly read-only | 19:03 |
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| Macer | weird | 19:34 |
| Macer | root can ssh in and bash works | 19:34 |
| Macer | a user gets permission denied | 19:35 |
| Macer | bash is in /etc/shells | 19:35 |
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| Macer | is there some weird sshd setting which would deny a user a shell? | 19:35 |
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| Sicelo | maybe user has no pass | 19:42 |
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| Macer | the user does | 19:43 |
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| Macer | does pam affect using a shell? | 19:43 |
| Macer | hm.. doesnt seem so | 19:45 |
| Macer | Sicelo: you may be right.. maybe for some reason or another sshd isn't passing a pw over to pam? | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | Macer, locking a user account with passwd -l forbids ssh logins too | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | in later Maemo releases (and Harmattan) the user account is locked by default | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | get root, vi /etc/passwd, replace the user:! with user:* (or the other way around, I don't remember), then you can ssh in | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | or passwd -d user, (IIRC) | 19:49 |
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| merlin1991 | yep passwd -d works for me | 19:52 |
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| Macer | jacekowski: i figured it out | 20:35 |
| Macer | the synology sshd sucks | 20:35 |
| Macer | had to install openssh | 20:35 |
| Macer | but i messed it up and locked root out... they have differend sshd_config files | 20:35 |
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| badcloud | is there a package manager which can select multiple packages (to install/uninstall) via gui? | 20:58 |
| HaXeri | why gui | 21:00 |
| NIN101 | FAM. | 21:02 |
| badcloud | HaXeri: doesn't have to be | 21:02 |
| badcloud | so... apt-get | 21:02 |
| badcloud | thanks | 21:02 |
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| befr0d | FAM is awesome | 21:05 |
| badcloud | noted :) | 21:05 |
| merlin1991 | FAM comes from deeper layers of hell | 21:09 |
| NIN101 | so we are bound to use the superfast HAM otherwise we risk fscking the system. Great. | 21:11 |
| merlin1991 | exactly :D | 21:15 |
| NIN101 | :-) | 21:15 |
| merlin1991 | one could do patches for ham though | 21:16 |
| merlin1991 | I guess a lot of hams processing can be cached at some point | 21:16 |
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| NIN101 | I think it's ok to install stuff like GSM/3G switcher over FAM, but I would never use apt, FAM etc. to update CSSU, install kernels etc. If one wants to be on the safe side, he should use HAM and nothing else. Using something different is the users own problem and choice. | 21:23 |
| Sicelo | but ham wasn't able to downgrade kernel for me. apt was only option, and went well | 21:25 |
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| merlin1991 | NIN101 the problem with fapman is that it runs apt-get autoremove | 21:33 |
| merlin1991 | wich is known to be b0rked on the n9 | 21:33 |
| merlin1991 | err n900 | 21:33 |
| merlin1991 | apt ist just fine when you know when to restart the device afterwards | 21:34 |
| NIN101 | once an "apt-get upgrade" _killed_ my system :-). every program segfaulted. | 21:38 |
| Sicelo | ;) | 21:38 |
| Sicelo | btw, since apt-get upgrade does the actual upgrading, what is cli command to check which packages are upgradeable, without actually doing so? (or is it apt-get -s upgrade?) | 21:40 |
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| neal | -s does a dry run | 21:41 |
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| merlin1991 | Sicelo: I use -s to check | 21:47 |
| merlin1991 | dunno if there's a better way | 21:47 |
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| Sicelo | i'm rtfm now to see | 21:55 |
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| Sicelo | apt-get -u upgrade, according to manual.. but, hmm | 21:59 |
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| neal | the woodchuck packages need one more (positive) vote to enter extras. Can someone please review them? Thanks. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/murmeltier/0.4~20111102-7/ (and s/murmeltier/apt-woodchuck/) | 22:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~aegis | 22:30 |
| infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | unrelated ^ | 22:35 |
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| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: if I were to connect two batteries to my n900, what would I have to do? is it possible to just connect them using Y cables to each pin or is it more conplicated? | 22:37 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: or to get to the point: I'm pondering if it is possible to hot-swap batteries | 22:37 |
| Shapeshifter | in theory | 22:37 |
| neal | Shapeshifter: there are a couple of posts about both on talk.maemo.org | 22:38 |
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| Shapeshifter | neal: ah yes, found some | 22:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | Connecting two batteries of different charge levels is a very bad dea | 22:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It may cause very large currents to flow, and internal fuses to blow. | 22:39 |
| ShadowJK | + and - connected together, third pin only from one battery. Batteries must be same state of charge when you connect them together (this means you can't connect batteries together for purpose of hotswapping) | 22:40 |
| ShadowJK | and by "+ and - connected together" I mean + from bat1 to + on bat2, etc | 22:40 |
| Shapeshifter | mh, too bad | 22:40 |
| Shapeshifter | ha I didn't expect hot swapping while actually connected to a wall charger to be such a big deal | 22:41 |
| Shapeshifter | I assumed *that* would simply work | 22:41 |
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| ShadowJK | It's not able to consume sufficient amount of power through that path :) | 22:42 |
| ShadowJK | Or not able to regulate it fast enough | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK | so it only works if no gsm/3g activity goes on when the battery is removed | 22:43 |
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| ShadowJK | (and by default the device shuts down if it notices battery removed) | 22:43 |
| Shapeshifter | that's a shame. | 22:44 |
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| ShadowJK | I do occasionally do hotswap though | 22:45 |
| ShadowJK | If I come home from work and have to leave again for a longer time, I might hotswap in a charged battery | 22:46 |
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| Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: from cars I know that there are things called 'isolators' which make it possible to use 2 batteries in one car with one battery not draining the other one (i.e. no cross-battery energy flow). any idea if something like that exists in miniature? | 22:46 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, yes. | 22:47 |
| SpeedEvil | In practice, it's more difficult with low voltages. | 22:47 |
| SpeedEvil | And nobody makes them | 22:47 |
| Shapeshifter | mh. | 22:47 |
| ShadowJK | actually.. | 22:50 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, there are dieal diode chips which would work | 22:50 |
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| ShadowJK | I was just going to paste link to one :O | 22:52 |
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| ShadowJK | ideal diode search on ebay gives 1 result (but no the right thing), so nobody makes ready circuits :) | 22:55 |
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| rly | I tried tuxracer just for fun. I managed to exit in an unconventional way. Is there also a conventional way to exit a full-screen command line application? | 23:09 |
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| ShadowJK | ctrl-backspace? | 23:16 |
| ShadowJK | camera door? :) | 23:16 |
| badcloud | anyone here installed 'remind' on their n900? | 23:16 |
| badcloud | it's my calendar of choice but I ****ed up my system trying to install it via dpkg | 23:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | camera button, then exit camera app drops you to desktop | 23:19 |
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| rly | SpeedEvil: pressing the 'turn off' button also does that. | 23:59 |
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