IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-10-12

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ColdFyrei can't seem to find any documentation for creating a maemo them from scratch..00:03
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TiagoTiagoquick question00:50
TiagoTiagoi need a guide or tutorial on how to diagnose and fix it when the app menu stays empty00:50
TiagoTiagowhere can i find that?00:50
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Zer0coolhello peeps , its me again im having an issue with a code in queenbeecon osso-xterm -e "sudo  nmap -sS -v -PN "01:12
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Zer0coolit opens xterminal runs code fine but then it closes how can i keep it open any ideas01:12
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Zer0coolare you there doc , you normall got loads of good ideas lol01:24
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sulphurhi there is anyone willing to help me with metasploit issue?01:30
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NIN101Zer0cool: give "sudo  nmap -sS -v -PN ; read" a try01:30
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Zer0coolnope still same issue ..cheers thou01:35
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NIN101so it doesn't understand ;01:48
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Zer0coolnope i guess not , just closes once scan is finished01:49
NIN101put it in a shellscript01:49
NIN101 that's it01:49
NIN101make it chmod +x01:49
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NIN101and then01:51
NIN101osso-xterm -e /pathtothescript01:51
Zer0cool2 seconds01:51
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Zer0coolgutted same issue it closes once it scanned ...01:55
Zer0coolcheers thou01:55
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NIN101Zer0cool: just tested that, though without nmap but with ls, the point is it stays open so I really dunno why not on your device :-).01:59
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Zer0coolnow it opens 2 terminal one does nothin strange01:59
Zer0coolmaybe cause im using queenbeecon for shortcut ...02:00
NIN101sorry I had a blackout02:01
NIN101 I meant this02:02
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Zer0coolcheers but nothing happens with , i did move sudo inside " an it opens but closes02:06
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NIN101I fial. the command shouldn't be in " "02:08
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* NIN101 is tired and should sleep. 02:09
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Zer0coolwell thanks for your help give me 2 seconds before you go02:11
NIN101sudo "nmap -sS -v -PN" must be sudo nmap -sS -v -PN
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Zer0coolit worked dude , you are a star many thanks for your help i removed " an all fine02:13
Zer0coolnew issue thou is closes if i try an type on termianl any idea what that is about02:14
Zer0coolnever mind you go to sleep thanks again02:14
NIN101try replacing "read" with /bin/sh or /bin/bash, depending what shell you have installed.02:15
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Zer0coolye night thanks02:16
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depressed down?02:31
SpeedEvilresponse time over 1002:31
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digistimhello all.  What is the best GPS navigation software available for the n900?07:22
sat2050you can use nokia maps07:23
sat2050but its slow07:23
sat2050try mappero07:23
digistimis that Ovi?07:23
sat2050works on google maps07:23
sat2050mappero has voice navigation as well07:23
sat2050even tho i am unable to figure out the accent07:23
digistimI've been looking around, haven't bought the n900 yet, I have n810.  But I drive for work and am considering a Garmin if the n900 navigation isn't up to it07:24
digistimI'm seeing mixed reviews for the navigation software, I figured I'd ask07:24
digistimThanks, I'll look into mappero! I'm one of the poor souls that purchased Wayfinder Navigator on the n810 and was dumped07:26
dm8tbrthe N9 navigation is pretty good07:26
digistimdoes n9 have similar features to n900?  I like the hackability of the n81007:27
sat2050i like mappero07:27
sat2050i dont hv much info on the meego platform07:28
dm8tbrit doesn't have a keyboard, but the onscreen kbd is very good07:28
sat2050then its nothing like n90007:28
digistimovi maps is slow?07:29
dm8tbrand the n9 is essentially still a maemo phone07:29
sat2050@digstim yes it takes time to start07:29
digistimmaemo-mapper on n810 was ok...required internet connection for routing and map tile downloads.  Mappero is any better?07:29
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sat2050mappero is maemo-mapper07:30
sat2050i think upgraded version or something like that07:30
digistimI love my n810, but I'm debating n900 or something running android07:32
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digistimYea, the website for mappero says it is new maemo mapper07:33
sat2050n900 is a nice machine07:33
sat2050with raw power07:33
digistimI may end up just getting the n900 for everything except navigation, and get a garmin for dedicated GPS07:33
digistimn900 is kind of what I've always dreamed the n770 was when I first saw it.  I wasn't able to afford one until the n810 came out, but I've loved the linux flavored device since I heard about the n77007:35
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sat20501your battery wont last long enough07:36
digistimwhich battery?07:36
sat20501phone battery07:36
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edheldilHi, anyone using PySide + phonon? I can't get audioOutput.setVolume(...)  or .setMuted() work, it's always playing on full volume10:49
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MohammadAGwhy not use QtMultimediaKit?10:51
MohammadAG(which seems to work fine for me)10:51
edheldilMohammadAG:  unless there was a new release, at least the python bindings were neutered - there was no *Player class or whatever it's called10:54
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edheldilI have submitted that as
povbotBug 885: Certman tutorial seems to have wrongly formatted stuff10:55
MohammadAGedheldil, afaik there are Qt Mobility pyside bindings10:55
woldrichpovbot, source10:56
povbotwoldrich: My source is at
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edheldilMohammadAG:  are there now? They were missing about 3 months ago10:58
edheldilor are they only in extras-devel or cssu?10:58
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DocScrutinizerSony hack reloaded - haha13:07
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DocScrutinizeredheldil: when I say phonon makes me vomit, you bet I got a perspective to better that unbearable urge ;-D13:10
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DocScrutinizerand no, cssu is unlikely to provide missing python bindings. They can go to extras(-devel) which by definition rules them out for CSSU13:13
DocScrutinizerCSSU is complementary, not alternative13:14
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DocScrutinizerumm that's probably a pretty puzzling statement. I meant: CSSU can use all the stuff from extras(-devel) and stock, except those things that CSSU is all about which are *replacements* of fremantle-metapackage components that introduce further issues and thus can't be done without massive meddling with the whole pkg dependencies, system config etc13:19
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DocScrutinizerpython bindings seem to be no part of fremantle-metapackage, so they don't need CSSU and thus won't go to CSSU13:23
edheldilDocScrutinizer:  I am really trying to get python multimediakit work, but it's pita - now some opython import segfault. Allegedly a 'rebuild' should fix it, but of what? And how? ... Phonon might suck, but *if* it at least somehow worked, it would be rather more practical solution13:28
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edheldilI mean: python -c "from QtMobility import Sensors" ... Segmentation fault13:29
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DocScrutinizersounds like either a error in usage (pebkac) or a severe bug that usually should get fixed by package maintainer in less than a week13:39
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DocScrutinizer(don't get me started about QTM-sensors, it seems to have some other way more severe basic design flaws)13:41
DocScrutinizer(buzzword polling, missing root handlers)13:41
DocScrutinizergeneral advice: if sth doesn't work, it's better to reduce abstraction level rather than adding another layer on top13:44
DocScrutinizerrandom example: if sth can't get done in c, you don't try to interface to a c++ object to get it done, rather you consider implementing that function in assembler13:45
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DocScrutinizerand when python has no working bindings to generic audio, it feels really odd to add another layer of abstraction and use phonon, then complain that this added layer also is missing versatility13:49
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bindiso uhm13:54
bindiwhy doesn't mobile hotspot work? :<13:55
bindii press start, and the button changes to "stop"13:55
bindibut i can't find it on another phone13:55
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ruskiebindi, uses ad-hoc mode iirc14:02
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DocScrutinizeryup. and might need PK14:19
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ruskieyay for spam14:24
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edheldilDocScrutinizer:  for me the problem with phonon is that something that is expected to work (setMuted()) does not. It might be my local setup or something I miss, but so far I haven't found anything.14:31
edheldilThere might be better solutions, but what's their use if they are hard to get working? MultimediaKit is worthless, if nobody has it installed. Or is there something else?14:33
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edheldilAnd do not get distracted with sensors, I do not use them, that was just an example of what broke after installing python qtm12 :). Pebkac it might be, but it's also in a bugreport which was closed with cryptic hints on something that has to be somehow rebuilt14:35
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MohammadAGedheldil, it's a simple dependency14:38
edheldilsorry, I was venting my frustration :(14:40
edheldilanyway, after upgrades to qtm12 I get the segfault above :(14:48
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edheldilMohammadAG:  dependency on what package, btw?14:49
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vilociraptori installed opera like 2 days back, and just now I got a notification that there is an update available for that17:59
vilociraptoris opera still developing for maemo this means?17:59
chem|stvilociraptor: you don't need to develop for maemo, you just need the build tool form the platform or wrapping once and you can build your mobile oriented program against any update18:00
vilociraptorso they must have that for multiple platforms? and we benefit from thats also18:01
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chem|stguess so, I doubt they explicitly devel for maemo18:02
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vilociraptoryea i was thinking that too18:03
vilociraptorbut if they do its very nice of them hehe18:03
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fluxhmm, maybe it's just me, but how do I set the time of day of n900, when I don't have a SIM card in?18:22
fluxI try pressing the time of day in the clock app, but the time zone, date and time settings are grayed out18:22
flux('date' as root solved this)18:24
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DocScrutinizersettings -> time and language -> time and date -> "automatic time update": off, time -> <set time>18:38
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timelessflux: out of curiosity, what language does your device speak?18:44
* timeless has slightly different text and was wondering if the text would be easier or harder for someone to understand18:44
DocScrutinizerooops, that's been for N950/HARM18:45
DocScrutinizerfor N900/fremantle though it's not that much different18:45
DocScrutinizerthe common "trick" is to uncheck "automatic time update"18:46
timelessDocScrutinizer: remember i have my own localization18:47
timelessi don't think your path is particularly wrong18:47
timelesswell time and language doesn't exist as such18:47
timelessand time and date might or might not have had an & instead of "and"18:47
timeless(who remembers, they randomly mixed & and and :)18:48
jargon-can .mkv videos be played on the n900 in freemantle?18:48
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moo18:48
javispedrohi there DocScrutinizer18:48
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fluxtimeless, english?19:05
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timelessUS or UK ? :)19:06
timelessalso are you using the latest nokia release or the community update?19:07
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fluxUK. but no, I'm not :)19:07
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timelessyou're using neither latest nokia nor the community update?19:12
* timeless trembles in fear19:12
Pieplaycan someone tell me if there is a secondary menu index list (default : /etc/xdg/menus/
Pieplaythis one does not contain all app entries19:14
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ShadowJKOpera seems like someone who makes actual good code :-)19:16
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JaffaPieplay: "secondary"?19:18
JaffaPieplay: Assuming you don't have anything like MyMenu, ApFeMo, Catorise or ``Catorise "PLUS"'' installed; that's it but it includes all the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/hildon as well19:19
PieplayOh wait I figured out that the rest is alphabetic to the contents of the /usr/share/applications/hildon/ dir19:19
Pieplayi'm just gonna add my launcher with program parameters there19:20
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Pieplayhow does maemo look for app icons20:58
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* timeless thinks that's covered on the wiki21:06
DocScrutinizeris it?21:07
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Zer0coolhello peeps22:35
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luke-jris it at all viable to do SIP over 2G?23:07
luke-jrT-Mobile's pissed me off for the last time23:07
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SpeedEvilluke-jr not really23:08
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SpeedEvil2G generally has a ping of ~1s +23:08
SpeedEvilAnd 64kbits bandwidth tops23:08
SpeedEvil(unless it's 2.5)23:08
crashanddiethat is, when the bloody operator doesn't block all ICMP23:09
luke-jrew :/23:10
crashanddie(Which, by the way, is horrible when you try to connect to a server that doesn't exist, or when the connection is refused or anything)23:10
luke-jrso I'm screwed with getting new T-Mobile service?23:10
luke-jrthose jerks just deactivated mine again23:10
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crashanddieOh, and by the way, did you guys know that TCP/IP TTL is actually measured in seconds?23:11
luke-jrAT&T idiots don't have data plans with SIM cards23:12
crashanddiei.e.: if an IP datagram arrives on a router with a TTL of 100, and remains in buffers for 3 seconds, when it leaves it's supposed to have a TTL of 97 (or 96, depending on what manufacturer you're talking to).23:12
crashanddieI had always been taught that TTL was just the number of hops.23:12
luke-jrwhy would it remain in the buffer at all?23:12
crashanddieAnd was quite flabbergasted when I heard about it23:12
crashanddieluke-jr, saturated network card?23:13
luke-jrcrashanddie: so if my pings are always under 1 second, why does TTL decrement at all? ;)23:13
luke-jrAT&T can't tell me if they support IPv623:14
crashanddiebecause your device isn't aware of TTL, unless it expires.23:14
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kirmacrashanddie: yes, it's technically measured in seconds according to original RFC. I think that requirement was dropped on another RFC long ago, and nowadays it's rather "a router-role device should decrement TTL by at least 1" ... basically23:17
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crashanddiekirma, that's what I thought as well, but it's not.23:18
kirmaonly required functionality of TTL anyway has always been that packets don't loop through active routing23:18
kirmanothing really relies on second-based decrements23:19
crashanddierely on it, indeed (not many applications "rely" on IP TTL anyway), but still act accordingly23:19
crashanddie(we tried it on a cisco gateway, and a number of audiocodes that we can program)23:20
kirmait's thankful that there are no drastic dependencies, since with some more hairy network traffic, not being able to decrement more than one would also open... issues23:20
crashanddie"not being able to decrement more than one"?23:20
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kirmaunfortunately biggest use beyond traceroute that TTL provides is really interesting abuse of middlebox - host distinction for IP stacks23:22
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crashanddieyou mean that every OS defaults to a different TTL number?23:22
kirmaI mean that middleboxes can't typically make assumptions of hops from them to target stack, and in specific scenarios, this can cause middleboxes to interpret traffic differently from target host stacks (which potentially see no packet at all)23:23
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crashanddieI'm not a network guy, so you completely lost me on that one :)23:24
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kirmalet's say that TCP and IP protocol design decisions alone, and especially augmented with design decisions of various vendors can make "unorthodox" TCP/IP traffic be seen in very strange ways on middleboxes23:27
luke-jrhow about another approach?23:27
luke-jris it possible to bypass "SIM Card Registration Failed"?23:27
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luke-jrmaybe with the open source drivers?23:27
kirmanot really anything new, known for at least a decade, but it amazes how hopeless many middlebox (especially non-firewalls) still are23:28
kirmabut then again: what can you do if you have no certain knowledge of number of hops to a target host,23:29
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kirmaI'd call IP TTL in combination with some other IP features a design error, but I'm not surprised it wasn't thought out to the end like over three decades ago23:31
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