IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-09-12

ErwinJungeAnyways, I'm off. Byebye all.00:01
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ZogGuser32, if you did, did you restarted udev?00:02
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beetleeEsbox doesn't run on my box, Debian SID. Do I need an specific version of Xulrunner to start it up or may it be a different issue?00:27
UberNeoHi All, I am getting the missing icons ,pink screen and automatic retstarts on my N900 .. have flashed few times .. even though its hapenning .. can anybody help me out00:27
SpeedEvilUberNeo: I vaguely remember that that symptom has been in others cause dby the EMMC - the main mass storage - failing.00:28
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UberNeoI have fsck the /dev/mmcblk0p1 and /dev/mmcblk0p2 .. even though its hapening00:30
UberNeoSpeedEvil: do i need to repartition the emmc00:30
SpeedEvilUberNeo: can you get dmesg?00:32
UberNeoSpeedEvil: okk . gv me some time .. i will just ssh and gv u the dmesg00:32
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UberNeoSpeedEvil: here is the dmesg --
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SpeedEvilOk - no clearly obvious errors, which is good00:47
SpeedEvilWhat does the composite out show?00:47
UberNeocomposite out ??00:49
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SpeedEvilVideo out00:50
SpeedEvilIf you happen to have something suitable to plug it into, and haven't lost the lead00:50
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UberNeono I dont have a TV .. alno no video jacks in my Laptop :(00:51
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UberNeoactually this time .. it restarted properly .. i can see all the images on the N900 screen00:52
SpeedEvilHave you been overclocking?00:52
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SpeedEvilIn principle, you can get subtle damage. Also soldering defects can cause wierd issues00:53
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UberNeono ...just using the RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin image00:53
UberNeodoes repartioning the emmc will help ??00:54
SpeedEvilSorry - too tired to answer that.00:55
SpeedEvilNight, and good luck.00:55
UberNeogive me any . pointers . so that i shud spend the night with tha00:56
SpeedEvilYou might try looking over tmo00:56
SpeedEvilDunno if there are any published logs for here00:56
UberNeook .. thanks a lot .. i wiil try tonight .. may be we can talk tmmrw00:57
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UberNeoduring what times u come  online ??00:57
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SpeedEvilIt's usually more actuve here from around 2 hours ago to 8 hours ago00:58
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UberNeookk ..00:58
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archlanybody can tell me how to use on N900?00:59
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, ping?04:24
GeneralAntillesActually, nevermind.04:24
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cehtehis there a way to query the device lock state of the device? (pin required)07:25
cehteh lists only keyboard lock07:25
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cehteh.. bah bugs07:47
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cehtehhaving an account for reporting bugs is the first hurdle to build a community08:07
cehteh$fail nokia ..08:08
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ruskiecehteh, hmm most bugtrackers and projects require an account to report bugs...08:26
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cehtehruskie: yeah i dont like that, besides posting a bug against MCE is likely pointless08:42
cehtehi doubt nokia will care for maemo5 much anymore, nor will it be opensourced08:43
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CPUnltdhello all...09:31
CPUnltdhave a webkit error I'm trying to hammer out and was suggested to post it in this channel...09:31
CPUnltdwhen executing the browser I am porting, I get the following message: symbol lookup error /.../ undefined symbol: ZNSt11__timepunctIcE2idE, version GLIBCXX_3.409:34
CPUnltdnot sure what that means...09:34
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cehtehCPUnltd: missing symbol, doesnt look like a standard function to me, prolly some implementation detail10:03
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psycho_oreoslol any of you guys installed extended-locked-media-control_0.1_armel.deb by qwerty12? looks like he left a parting note of his angerness10:26
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edheldilpsycho_oreos:  ? Can you elaborate?10:54
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psycho_oreosedheldil, nevermind, looks like there's been plenty of people that have beaten me to it :) qwerty12 left a note when one installs that package which was made by him10:56
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psycho_oreosedheldil, fyi I was referring to this package: and the note he left is available to read here: jd4200: beat me to pasting that but oh well11:00
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psycho_oreosmece, ping11:02
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JaffaMorning, all11:08
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edheldilpsycho_oreos:  thanks.11:16
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psycho_oreosmece, if you see this message. I have placed your issue into bugzilla, whilst its not completely not working the GPS takes far longer than usual to lock down on GPS:
povbotBug 12399: GPS takes longer than usual time to acquire information from satellites11:19
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psycho_oreosedheldil, nw11:19
archlhow long is usual?11:19
archlIt usualy took 4 minutes for me,11:20
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psycho_oreosI think it took around 6-7 minutes, and this is with assistance mode on (i.e. communicates with the SUPL server11:23
psycho_oreoshmm this gives me a bit of an idea11:24
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jogahas anyone (of you :) used an uvcvideo webcam with n900 host mode? it seemingly works, the module is there, I get /dev/video2 but trying it with gst-launch dies with either the error that it can't allocate memory (tried num-buffers=1 too) or  "no space on device"11:33
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jogasome googling gives stuff from 2006 hinting something about ARM mmap but I dunno11:34
psycho_oreosarchl, you don't use agps at all do you?11:35
archlpsycho_oreos: No, I don't.11:35
archlpsycho_oreos: I just test it while others driving :D11:35
psycho_oreosarchl, bugger, that's why it takes time to lock down :) I needed some confirmation.. I guess I'm more or less on my own on this one11:36
psycho_oreosarchl, lol if I could get the whole nokia-maps or whatever to work with voice-nav, etc I'll be happy to mount it on me car :)11:36
archlpsycho_oreos: you don't need ovi map.. it not going to show you accurate position...11:37
psycho_oreosarchl, I agree it doesn't show you accurate position, but the GPS functionality could be handy in numerous ways.. plus it also sort of doubles N900 as a `cheap man's' GPS device11:39
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archluse some other maps that will get you right position, like modrana. it also got voice aid11:40
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hp2510pHi I'm trying to upgrade the kernel on my n900 from the power42 kernel to at least power47. I have 'extras-testing' enabled but it won't get a later version. Can I manually get it?11:41
psycho_oreosproblem with modrana is for one to `cut' up the maps for installation into device, but of course there's plenty other navigation products like mappero, marble, etc11:42
psycho_oreosyou can manually get it but you'll have to manually install 3 or 4 packages (I think it was 3)11:42
psycho_oreosyou may as well enable extras-devel, you get power4811:42
archlpsycho_oreos:  ok, the 4th day I got N900, I enabled extra-devel *^*11:43
archlIt has been 2 months now.11:43
hp2510pwill 48 work with cleven?11:45
psycho_oreosarchl, I can't even recall when I first enabled extras-devel but definitely not within the 4th day of N900 ownership.. I wasn't too keen ;)11:45
psycho_oreoshp2510p, you mean with lxp's bleeding-edge drivers? yes11:45
hp2510pso if I enable extras-devel will the process to install power42 automatically install power48?11:46
psycho_oreosyes its automatic if you update the repo list and do upgrade.. it won't be fully automatic if you have uboot/multiboot in the way for instace11:46
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: yes its automatic if you update the repo list and do upgrade.. it won't be fully automatic if you have uboot/multiboot in the way for instance11:46
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hp2510pa repo list upgrade can be done via the application manager, right?11:48
psycho_oreosyes, it'll automatically update when you make changes to repository list11:49
psycho_oreosbasically that little popup menu that says its checking for updates is when its updating the lists from repositories11:50
hp2510pit could be done via the console in the same way it would be done on any debian system right?11:51
psycho_oreosand I personally wouldn't advise using HAM (Hildon Application Manager), with extras-devel enabled, CPU usage on high could last for up to 10 minutes11:51
psycho_oreosdebian system or debian package management based system such as ubuntu, mint, knoppix, backtrack, etc11:52
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archlpsycho_oreos: can i change the size of the button on left-top corner?11:52
archlpsycho_oreos: I don't know how to call it, is that home button?11:53
psycho_oreosarchl, not sure what's it called.. might be called a `multi' button but don't quote me on it.. and not really.. I believe it would be somewhere inside the themes.. like maybe /usr/share/themes11:53
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archlpsycho_oreos: ok, thanks, I want it be curve look.11:55
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hp2510pI wish they had built an ethernet port into this puppy, it would make a nice little webserver12:00
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: ok, let's see how long my GPS takes today :-)12:02
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, you have the latest CSSU installed as well? I think I may have found a workaround but I'm suspicious of this workaround being an instant success12:03
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hp2510pthankyou for the help, power48 is now installed!12:08
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dreamerhmm, has anyone seen this bug on the n900? Quite frequently when I go out of the screen-lock the camera-application starts. as if the camera-protector is opened12:13
DocScrutinizerA) GPS sucks12:14
DocScrutinizerB) 10s of direct sun to frontside suffice to dim the indicator LED when it starts flashing on TK_lock12:15
DocScrutinizerB)1) covering both LED and ALS doesn't change that12:15
bistondreamer i've never had that12:16
DocScrutinizernow for A), what's been this alternative google supl?12:16
malinDocScrutinizer: I have difficulities with gps too. It takes to long before it detects GPS. Don't know if this is common on other devices as well?12:16
RST38hMoo, gentlemen12:16
DocScrutinizermoo RST38h12:17
malingoogle maps works like a sharm on N900 with geolocation (gps) but the + and - buttons is not present, so that makes it pretty unusuabel12:17
bistonnokia has yet to implement a decent gps in their devices12:17
DocScrutinizerdetail I noticed: A/supl placed me ~2° lat higher, and 1° lon more to west12:18
DocScrutinizerthan where I got last fix yesterday12:18
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, that's what I used and it seems to lock on real quick.. the problem is that I cannot repeat the same issue again.. I'm guessing because I'm using mobile broadband with another provider, they probably have cached data.. hence the almost instantaenous lockdown.. maybe even moreso with the other device already locking down way beforehand.. hmm12:18
DocScrutinizerand where I'm today still12:18
RST38hDoc: The continent is drifting12:19
RST38hDoc: toward the huge hole in the North Pole.12:19
DocScrutinizerRST38h: is drifting away12:19
dreamerbiston: well it's strange that this is happening since ~2 weeks now12:19
DocScrutinizerSUPL even12:19
dreameralmost every time I unlock the device12:20
RST38hDoc: Well,
dreamerbiston: and there hasn't been an update of anything. nor did I install any software12:20
RST38hport 727612:20
RST38h7262 too12:20
DocScrutinizererr, I hope that's the default port12:20
RST38hwhich of the two? =)12:21
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DocScrutinizerfsck any of those12:21
DocScrutinizers/default/nokia supl/12:21
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DocScrutinizer\o/ -> 20s12:23
DocScrutinizerwith it had no fix after 5 min12:23
malinjepp instead of I too use
DocScrutinizerthought as much, there've been no firmware updates to GPS12:24
malinbut still it is slow I think, but what is slow is the detection of GPS, could take several minutes12:24
malintesting right now12:25
malinlooking for gps12:25
DocScrutinizerwell, it had been fast for me here, then I recently noticed it sucks, and with google it's back to normal sub-30s TTFF12:25
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psycho_oreosport 7275 for supl services.. I checked that via running wireshark on wlan0 and then columbusGPS12:25
malinstill looking for gps12:26
DocScrutinizerit seems it's not unusual Nokia purposely breaks supl for their "aged" devices12:26
psycho_oreos`from nokia, with love' lol12:26
malinI think it has looked for gps in almost two minutes now12:26
DocScrutinizermalin: doesn't mean a thing unless you're in same location with same orientation of device and same weather as before when it been faster12:28
RST38hDoc: no ill intent there12:28
RST38hDoc: I doubt anyone at Nokia still *remembers* this supl server exists12:28
DocScrutinizereven then you *might* have spotted a gap in GPS sat coverage12:28
malinDocScrutinizer: it always use this long time12:28
malinI am located in Norways third largest city, but maybe that dosen't mean a thing? I Just can't imagen other people wait this long12:29
malinon their androids?12:29
DocScrutinizerthen either you're actually holding it wrong (no kidding), or you're in a locaton with poor signal from sats12:29
malinI have waited in 4minutes12:29
malinHolding it wrong? how should I hold it then?12:29
DocScrutinizerif you got too poor signal you can't compensate that by waiting longer12:30
DocScrutinizerlandscape upright12:30
DocScrutinizernot covering left upper corner12:30
malinDon't think there is poor coverage for satelites here. The local university is one of the first in the world with a campusguide-app who use gps as a navagiation tool so you can figure out where you are at campus12:30
malinon the screen side of the device?12:30
malinI see. I had it placed on my desk12:31
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: yes12:31
malinså I didn't touch it12:31
malinit found the gps now. Took five minutes only12:31
DocScrutinizeryeah, now make that desk dielectrically active, or of steel and you're done12:31
malinI put it on my couch instead12:32
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malinit happend much faster now12:32
malinit found it12:32
malinso something is strange :)12:32
DocScrutinizeryou're supposed to hold it up in the air upright landscape holding it on lower half only (or place it on desk witj stand:-D )12:32
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malinDocScrutinizer: okey :)12:33
DocScrutinizerit definitely has poor performance when placed flat on a table12:33
malinyeah, and now it lost contact12:34
malinbut I have to go12:34
malingoing for school :)12:34
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DocScrutinizernow for the next big mystery of science and EE12:34
DocScrutinizerindicator light12:35
DocScrutinizerless than 10s full sun to screen and then tk_lock, and ind-LED is dim12:36
DocScrutinizerthat's definitely no thermal effect12:36
DocScrutinizerexcept maybe in LED chip itself (for now)12:36
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DocScrutinizermhm, properly covering upper 20mm incl LED and ALS witj my hand stops the efect12:37
DocScrutinizerit's ALS12:39
DocScrutinizer~lart FSCKNG MCE12:39
* infobot executes killall -HUP FSCKNG MCE12:39
DocScrutinizerseems reasonable, thoug I'd prefer -KILL12:39
angelox|laptopgood morning people!12:41
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eichiwhat is the common ways to save user data in application? pickle? josn? xml?12:44
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edheldileichi:  or sqlite db12:50
robbiethe1stsqlite if you've got it12:51
robbiethe1stOr, for things like config, you can go with pickle/whatever-text-format-is-easy12:51
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eichiI read about pickle security issues and I like portable and human readable data12:53
eichimaybe I try xml12:53
eichialso it should not have to much depencies. python xml is default on maemo5?12:54
robbiethe1steither that, or just make comma/| seperated, \n delimited values12:54
eichisqlite needs a package i thing12:54
robbiethe1stsimple, easy to read.12:54
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eichifor cofig it is okay, but I have some data with hirarch. structure12:55
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eichibut never coded with xml but then its a good point to lern ;)12:56
eichirobbiethe1st: thanks for discussing that12:56
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crashanddieCalifornian politician Scott __Wiener__ tries to curb nudism... Oh the irony.12:57
robbiethe1stI think the XML modules would be a bit more problematic to learn, if you don't already know it12:57
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psycho_oreosarchl, you found the name of that file that shows the icon on top left hand side?12:59
archlpsycho_oreos: sorry, I just come back from dinner12:59
psycho_oreosarchl, heh nw, did you find the name of the file? I guess you didn't :)13:00
archlpsycho_oreos:  you are right, I haven't find it.13:01
archl:D glad to hear you telling me13:01
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psycho_oreosarchl, /opt/usr/share/themes/alpha/images/wmTaskSwitcherIcon.png13:02
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archlpsycho_oreos:  thanks :D but I want to change the size rather than the Icon image :D13:07
archlpsycho_oreos:  now I'm having moon cake.13:07
archlpsycho_oreos:  happy mid-autumn festival, probably your father celebrate it :D13:08
psycho_oreosarchl, ahh yes indeed, mid autumn festival. I had early one on saturday13:08
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psycho_oreoswell you can't change the size but you can change the size within the file :P so that way you'll have a bigger image13:09
archlpsycho_oreos: well, i want it be larger :D configurable UI would be fun13:10
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DocScrutinizer~lart mce13:18
* infobot puts mce through a wood chipper13:18
DocScrutinizer~lart mce13:18
* infobot blasts mce with a huge firehose then strangles mce with it13:18
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DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# grep lux /usr/lib/mce/modules/*13:19
DocScrutinizerÜbereinstimmungen in Binärdatei /usr/lib/mce/modules/
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# grep lp5523 /usr/lib/mce/modules/*13:19
DocScrutinizerÜbereinstimmungen in Binärdatei /usr/lib/mce/modules/
DocScrutinizerÜbereinstimmungen in Binärdatei /usr/lib/mce/modules/
DocScrutinizerso HOW THE F*CK can indicator LED get dimmed by ALS sensing too much ambient light???13:20
mecepsycho_oreos, it was network location that didn't work.13:23
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DocScrutinizerhmm, obviously also has no link to "lux" and still evidently knows about ambient light13:24
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SpeedEvilPower saving measure.13:25
SpeedEvilIt was assumed (by someone) that the light would not be visible in light of over x intensity13:25
DocScrutinizerso it pretty much seems somebody thought it's a cool thing to dim ind-LED on bright ambient, and implemented that bullcrap on purpose13:25
psycho_oreosmece, err ok now I'm confused.. so if that doesn't work you won't get an icon showing that its trying to acquire GPS satellites?13:25
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mecepsycho_oreos, or.13:26
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: it *would be* visible if it wasn't dimmed. And dimming is a terribly stupid thing, they as well could completely switch it off then13:26
psycho_oreosmece, whoa ok, that sounds more serious than in my case lol I thought it was the case of it took forever to lock down GPS signal13:26
mecepsycho_oreos, I got no location period.13:26
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: sure13:27
mecepsycho_oreos, I didn't really investigate that much13:27
psycho_oreosmece, just curiously (even though this may not resolve the issue), have you tried changing the supl server to see if you can acquire a lock?13:27
mecepsycho_oreos, no, and this issue might have been around for a while for me. I only checked because the tmo post asked if there were issues13:28
DocScrutinizerhave you tried resetting the external paired BT GPS mouse to internal GPS, in settings? ;-P13:28
psycho_oreosmece, ahh d*mn ok.. I thought we had similar issues :/ and on top of that it seems as though I might have resolved my own issue13:31
mecepsycho_oreos, good :) How?13:31 ?13:32
psycho_oreosmece, well I didn't have that issue without the GPS icon not appearing.. it does appear when I go back to home screen but yeah I tried
psycho_oreosyup DocScrutinizer beat me to it :)13:32
DocScrutinizermece: ^^^13:32
DocScrutinizerhave you tried resetting the external paired BT GPS mouse to internal GPS, in settings? ;-P13:32
psycho_oreosahahaha.. that reminds me.. if my other N900 acquires GPS really quickly, and my old N900 doesn't but both has columbusGPS installed.. I could have set the other N900 up as bluetooth GPS mouse :D13:34
* psycho_oreos facepalms self13:34
* DocScrutinizer *hates* the idea google keeps track of all his GPS locations and IP13:35
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psycho_oreosits inevitable in this digital day and age :)13:36
DocScrutinizerjust all hail to DHCP for 3G13:36
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archlum... closed.13:36
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psycho_oreoseven walking outside into the street exposes you to video cameras that can probably be publicly viewed through google web search and bit of security penetration13:36
DocScrutinizerbah, they don't know about my ever changing trout mask13:37
psycho_oreosdon't forget to dab superglue over all of yer fingers ;)13:38
psycho_oreosleave no fingerprints behind13:38
DocScrutinizerdo you think I ever dare to touch things that don't belong to me?13:38
psycho_oreoswell you still have to punch a few keys into ATM machine.. do EFTPOS transactions, etc, etc, etc :)13:39
DocScrutinizerthere are knuckles and pens for that13:39
psycho_oreoslol what a hassle, superglue for the laziness and for the win ;)13:39
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DocScrutinizerfeels shitty13:40
psycho_oreosplus superglue costs like next to nothing these days :D13:40
psycho_oreosindeed, but price of being a little careless and accidentally using fingers to dab on things that doesn't belong to you? priceless :D13:40
DocScrutinizerI got superglue all over my fingers more often that I like - I know how that feels ;-P13:40
* DocScrutinizer invented a cool thing - I call it "gloves"13:41
psycho_oreoshahahaha, I never really had too many superglue on me fingers and I can vaguely recall my moments of having one.. definitely not convenient when I had to go to work and use my fingers to get through doors as well as signing in13:41
DocScrutinizeryou know it's like a sock, but for your hand13:41
psycho_oreosit needs to be clear or people will think you're nuts ;) the only other exception is on winter days.. but in summer, people would sweat in their gloves :D13:42
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: wut? you don't use a fingerprint stamp for that?13:42
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, never tried but I don't think I can fool the biometric verification like that :)13:42
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: I dress like Michel Jackson, and people *know* I'm nuts while I'm actually not and can wear gloves whenever I like13:43
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, lol bet that'd score you some freebies ;)13:44
DocScrutinizerit's just that dress doesn't match nicely to my trout mask usually13:46
DocScrutinizerand still it seems people recongnize me instantly - dunnno why :-P13:46
psycho_oreosI think they got old of you wearing a fancy costume ;)13:46
DocScrutinizerbut I bet google / picasa is lost on such a behaviour13:46
* DocScrutinizer yaws, and ponders to write /dev/urandom over /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so13:48
psycho_oreoswhy not move that file somewhere else and create a null file in place? ;)13:48
DocScrutinizeror maybe I should study source of the apparently only foss thing in there: libfilter-brightness-simple.so13:49
psycho_oreos*shrugs* or that13:49
DocScrutinizer~kill mce13:50
* infobot shoots a magneto-ionized anti-neutrino gun at mce13:50
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* DocScrutinizer ponders opening a ticket "mce reduces indicator LED brightness on high ambient light, in a braindamaged manner"13:51
DocScrutinizerdamn I *must* be bored13:51
DocScrutinizerHAH tadaaa I could hack up the lp5523 kernel driver to simply ignore all mce madness13:52
DocScrutinizerlp5523.ko neeed an overhaul anyway, it's retarded13:53
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DocScrutinizerbasically cripples the nice LP5523 chip to a reduced set of capabilities and features similar to LP552113:54
DocScrutinizerdamn I *must* be bored13:54
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bistonim trying to extract my calendar data from the phone backup files bit by bit, im on the Birthdays table from the sqlite db now and i have a column called DayMonth. the only bdate i remember is 5/21 which is converted to 420 in the column. any idea of how this 420 was calculated ?14:56
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bistonnevermind, i found a way15:01
MohammadAGI think the calendar engine is open source15:01
MohammadAGhow? would be useful to have in channel logs15:02
bistonthere's another table with a startdate and enddate, which are unix timestamps to be converted15:02
bistoni didn't know bdates are on that other table as well, that's all15:03
bistonby the way, n900's contacts manager is so freakn messy. the extracted file has every contact 3 or 4 times15:04
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crashanddieNuclear leak after explosion some 200km away from me.15:44
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RST38hcrashanddie: Do you see the glow? =)15:45
crashanddieNot yet.15:45
crashanddieGoing to buy some marshmallows for the upcoming barbecue15:45
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LinuxCodecrashanddie, where are you based ?15:49
LinuxCodethats far enough from here15:50
* LinuxCode loves it how countries build their nuclear plants on the edges of the country15:50
LinuxCodebest, close to somebody elses border15:50
LinuxCodeespecially if that neighbouring country imports half of the power from there, but itself doesnt wany nuclear power15:51
LinuxCodeGermany , for instance15:51
LinuxCodecrashanddie, no need to panic15:52
LinuxCodeThere were no radioactive leaks after the blast, caused by a fire near a furnace in a radioactive waste storage site, a French nuclear official said.15:52
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LinuxCodesaying that15:53
LinuxCodethen you read on...15:53
crashanddiethe same way the nuclear cloud from tchernobyl magically stopped at the french borders (because it didn't have a passport?)15:53
LinuxCodeohh just btw, it recycles plutonium into mox fuel15:53
LinuxCodecrashanddie, hahaha15:53
LinuxCodefor a French person, you do show some great insight into sarcasm15:53
crashanddieNuclear power just loves France. Always does exactly what the politicians say15:54
crashanddieI'm not French, is why ;)15:54
LinuxCodeahhh hahah15:54
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LinuxCodegotta give the French one thing though, they wont have power cuts, like germany in 20 years time15:55
LinuxCodewhen the wind doesnt blow15:55
* LinuxCode goes back to work15:56
sasquatchfrance has brownouts because of nuclear power15:57
sasquatchthe nuclear power plants dongt adapt fast enough to power consumption changes15:57
sasquatchbut thats a different tale...15:57
* ShadowJK thought they were usable for balancing15:58
ShadowJK(but usually all nuclear plants are run for baseload and don't even attempt to balance)15:58
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sasquatchbut i'm pro nuclear... i support everything that accelerates human self extinction16:00
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DocScrutinizerno, none of those nuke plants were designed for frequent load changes. They may even break on that16:00
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sasquatchlets give earth a 2nd chance16:00
sasquatchwithout homo sapiens!16:00
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: never been a design or audit goal that the pipes, turbine, whatnot can withstand a huge number of temperature/pressure changes16:02
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ShadowJKright so France has a deficit of balancing power then16:03
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DocScrutinizerthey're built to run @90..100% all the time, for decades16:03
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ShadowJKi suspect the average "uptime" is <90% each year16:07
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DocScrutinizerthe number of power cycles is what counts16:08
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DocScrutinizerlike a car always driven for <3km then stopped again for hours16:08
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DocScrutinizerwill kill the engine, usually16:09
DocScrutinizeraiui you can run a power plant (nuklear) at 50% of max output and it doesn't care too much. But you don't want to crank up and down from 50% to 100% and back more than twice a year maybe16:11
ShadowJK"for the last 25 years EdF has used in each PWR reactor some less absorptive "grey" control rods which weigh less from a neutronic point of view than ordinary control rods and they allow sustained variation in power output."16:11
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DocScrutinizernot the piping and pressure vessel and all the fittings etc pp though16:12
DocScrutinizerdang, even a Lavazza espresso machine service dude honestly suggested to keep the thing running as switching it down each night would kill the seals16:13
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ShadowJK"PWR plants are very flexible at the beginning of their cycle, with fresh fuel and high reserve reactivity." ... "When they are 90% through the fuel cycle, they only take part in frequency regulation, and essentially no power variation is allowed"16:14
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DocScrutinizernow I don't mind too much a killed seal on a Lavazza, not so on a nuclear popwer plant16:14
ShadowJKso like the newly refueled plants do load-following, and the ones close to refueling only participate in emergency regulation16:15
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: we talk different topics16:15
marmouteShadowJK: it seems exactly the opposite16:15
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I'm reading about what they're actually doing16:16
sasquatchin france nuclear power behaves differnetly - obviously16:16
sasquatchthey must have a different physics16:16
DocScrutinizerthey have, some of their statesmen ordered it - possibly DeGaule16:17
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DocScrutinizerand to keep their secret wisdom and not share it to others, they use french terms for everything that nobody understands in the rest of the world16:18
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DocScrutinizerSIDA, ordinateur16:19
sasquatchthey have nanoscaled orders of their president... so each uranium atom can read the orders16:19
DocScrutinizerheard they frequently even translate family names16:20
ShadowJK"France's nuclear reactors comprise 90% of EdF's capacity and hence are used in load-following mode and are even sometimes closed over weekends, so their capacity factor is low by world standards, at 77.3%. However, availability is almost 84% and increasing."16:20
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DocScrutinizerheard this morning even France *starts* to think about when and how to end nuclear age16:23
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sasquatchthey'll think for a very long time16:24
marmouteDocScrutinizer: translating famility is an urban legend.16:24
DocScrutinizernah, our French teacher told us they did that on his last name16:24
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DocScrutinizerwuld he lie to us pupils? ;-D16:25
marmouteDocScrutinizer: lines about nuclear power ine france did not moved. State and power industry say we won't change. sustainable-grow guys say we should get out.16:25
marmouteDocScrutinizer: what was it ?16:25
DocScrutinizerhis name?16:26
ShadowJKthe french grid company's realtime status website doesn't work in microb :(16:26
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: use a french browser ;-P16:26
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marmouteShadowJK: URL ?16:27
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edheldilDocScrutinizer:  we translate family names as well - adding suffix to some female names16:27
sasquatchneeds java16:28
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sasquatchok... now i know why they need nuclear power...16:28
sasquatchtoo much java in france's internet16:28
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marmouteDocScrutinizer: yop his name16:29
DocScrutinizerRottenbacher iirc16:29
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crashanddiepeople who are supposed professionals in IT and still miss the difference between "1" and "l" in production systems ought to be shot.16:35
crashanddieEven more so, when it's INSIDE AN IP ADDRESS!16:35
jonne|reconnectelet me get my gun16:36
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RST38hMeanwhile: HP is shipping a final batch of 6,000 HP Touchpads to the UK but only employees will be able to nab them,17:36
RST38hNo, really17:37
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fluxI think the best side of the HP Touchpad thing is that it might've saturated the market a bit, so companies need to put out extra-good products out to be able to sell them :P17:38
RST38hThe best side of HP Touchpad is that it has shown how dumb some business people can be17:41
RST38hWith the right marketing, the Touchpad had all chances of succeeding (although not taking over the market of course)17:41
SpeedEvilBut they were only happy with taking over the market.17:42
RST38hYet, they killed it, "window of opportunity closed", "there can only be Android and iPhone"17:42
SpeedEvilWhich was crack-pipe.17:42
RST38h"Can't become Apple? Well, fuck it."17:42
nid0well, its right marketing and the rather large incentive of the psychological impulse price-point17:43
SpeedEvilThe only way apple is getting knocked off the perch any time soon would be IBM-esque anti-trust issues.17:43
RST38hnid0: These things only cost $100-$200 to build17:43
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SpeedEvilnid0: It's not marketing to shove something out the door way below cost17:43
nid0teardowns put the bom at $281 afaik17:43
RST38hnid0: Then bring the price down17:43
SpeedEvil$200 is under BOM17:43
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SpeedEvilRST38h: Bill of materials - how much the components cost.17:44
RST38hnid0: Bring the cost down, sorry. And sell for $250 or something17:44
RST38hSpeed: I know what BOM is17:44
SpeedEvilRST38h: You are going to have to shave something off the device to get it to hit $25017:44
RST38hSpeed: The Chinese manage it quite nicely17:44
RST38hSpeed: Why can't HP?17:44
nid0there are plenty of cheap tablets with cheap materials costs and cheap end prices17:44
SpeedEvilThe chinese are good at making tablet shaped objects.17:44
nid0but they tend to feel cheap, look cheap, and act cheap as a result17:45
SpeedEvilWith crappy LCD, crappy build quality, crappy processor, crappy integration, crappy battery life.17:45
SpeedEvilREmoving the crappy adjective from each of those costs.17:45
nid0hannspree's hannspad is a good example. for its cost, you sure as hell cant argue with it as it costs dick all, great if someone wants something cheap17:45
RST38hBuild quality, integration - do not depend on BOM much17:45
nid0but having used one, it most definitely is a cheap tablet17:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: True. Memory, CPU, LCD, case does though.17:46
RST38hSpeed: But even these can be optimized17:46
RST38hSpeed:And are optimized, in my experience. When your motivation is to bring the costs down.17:46
RST38hSpeed: And not solely to get a corporate promotion17:47
SpeedEvilThe fundamental problem is that there may be a little fat in HPs design.17:47
SpeedEvil(and probably a fair bit in the corporate strucutre)17:47
SpeedEvilBut there isn't enough to get a profitable device of the touchpad class out at $20017:47
SpeedEvilSure - you can do a cheap well-built tablet at that price -point - but the performance will be dissapointing.17:48
SpeedEvilAnd if the CPU isn't cutting edge, app developers will have to work harder to get adewuate perfomrance - and they won't.17:48
SpeedEvilBecause it's a small platform and they can't be arsed.17:49
SpeedEvilSo you get a viscious circle.17:49
SpeedEvilWhich leads to any 'decent' tablet being priced at over what half the ipad2 costs.17:49
SpeedEvilAnd at that price point - a large slice of the consumers start thinking 'hmm, it's only $x mode'17:49
SpeedEvilHP dumping touchpads at cost (not $99) and carrying on doing so for a couple of years - may have changed things.17:50
SpeedEvilDropping 100K or 250K or whatever on the mareket at $99 probably only does negative things.17:51
crashanddieDon't care, getting to TPs tomorrow.17:51
crashanddiewell, three, but the third one is for a friend.17:51
crashanddieone for the gf, one for me. And a pre3 for the gf as well.17:51
SpeedEvilI tried to order some, but failed.17:52
SpeedEvilAt that price, I'd have wanted at least 317:52
nid0I managed to get one, couldnt get a 2nd for the gf though17:52
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SpeedEvilEven neglecting ebay.17:52
crashanddieOne for the loo, one for the kitchen and one for the bedroom, SpeedEvil?17:52
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Something like that.17:52
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SpeedEvilAlso - there is a big plus about the touchpad sized form factor.17:53
SpeedEvilIt won't fall quite into the water in most toilets.17:54
RST38hmhm, an unexpected angle17:54
jaskaheh, expected usage environment tho.17:55
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vi__MohammadAG: yo18:09
vi__latest CSSU update braeks ovi store.18:09
vi__just a heads up.18:09
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vi__It says 'ovi store coming soon', 'ipdate your n900'.18:16
vi__which is total ass18:16
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vi__so either cssu has broken it or store is down.18:16
blackthorneI don't really understand this but my original n900 headphones18:17
blackthornegive a very bad sound, with eco18:17
vi__wtf is eco18:17
blackthorneand becomes great when I press the (microphone?) button18:17
vi__is this during a call?18:18
blackthorneI'm using in other devices18:18
blackthorneI was told they should work anywhere18:18
vi__you can here yourself through headset microphone?18:18
blackthorneno, I am using it on a macbook pro18:19
blackthorneit starts my iTunes when I press it18:19
blackthornewhile I press it, the sound becomes ok18:19
vi__headset uses 4 pole jack18:20
vi__macbook pro uses 3 pole/apple nonsense18:20
blackthorneI think I know18:20
blackthornewhat's happening18:20
vi__so it aint gonna work anyway18:20
blackthorneseems to be a noise filter18:20
vi__when you press mic button you turn 4th pole to gnd18:20
blackthorneapplied to the music itself18:21
MohammadAGno, it's the 4th pin18:21
MohammadAGit messes up with apple detection18:21
blackthorneI hear some sounds18:21
blackthornebut not others18:21
blackthornelike a music where a member of the band didn't show up18:21
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vi__MohammadAG: you saw my message?18:23
MohammadAGvi__, unless the postinst didn't run, there's nothing that would break it18:24
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vi__how would I check?18:25
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MohammadAGdpkg --configure -a18:26
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vi__MohammadAG: ovi store relies on user agent18:33
vi__MohammadAG: derp.18:33
blackthorneso sad, I have so good music but can't hear it18:33
vi__blackthorne: stop being a cheapskate and buy a pair of headphones then.18:34
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vi__wow, ovi store is literally empty.18:35
vi__0 things.18:36
blackthornesorry if that wasn't my first attempt18:37
blackthornetried to understand how it works if possible first18:37
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MohammadAGblackthorne, just click the mic button18:57
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MohammadAGApple's using non standard jacks18:57
MohammadAGnot that Nokia's using a standard plug... but it should work on standard jacks18:57
blackthornethat's the thing18:58
blackthornethis is the first headphone bringing me troubles18:58
blackthorneon this laptop18:58
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nid0headphones, or headset?19:02
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NIN101srsly, where is the TMO moderation?19:05
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NIN101somebody is spamming TMO since hours and nobody is doing something :-).19:41
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andre__NIN101, known. report it to the mods.19:42
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pompahi everyone. I was trying to solve the error about config file in the cssu config app and I subtituted the config file in hildon-desktop folder20:32
pompanow everything is a mess, and I cannot access terminal to restore the old file20:32
MohammadAGgot ssh?20:33
e0xdo have ssh enable ?20:33
pompadon't think so20:33
pompais it enabled by default?20:33
e0xwell i think when you install it get enable20:34
e0xby default20:34
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e0xnot sure20:34
e0xyou have it installed ?20:34
MohammadAGI'm thinking of adding ssh to CSSU depends20:34
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MohammadAGa lower version than the one in extras20:34
MohammadAGthat defaults the password to root or something20:35
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pompaother than ssh no way to access /usr/ecc...?20:35
MohammadAGdesktop shortcut?20:36
MohammadAGanyone know hebrew here?20:36
e0xis not css optify ? maybe if it mount the device will access it20:37
pompaI have it but also if I press on the icon the system doesn't launch the app20:37
pompaI don't understand why it acts like this... I can run contacts, phone and mail20:38
pompabut cannot run terminal20:38
pompawhat is it?20:39
MohammadAGcustomizable grid of shortcuts20:39
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pompawell, it's quite a strange situation mine...20:39
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pompaat present time I cannot swipe between desktops20:40
pompaneither rearrange icons order20:40
ShapeshifterHas anyone tried outputting sound to a pulseaudioserver on the network? Maemo doesn't seem to have pax11publish...20:40
MohammadAGhildon-desktop isn't running20:40
MohammadAGyou should be in a reboot loop, but the latest update prevents that20:40
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pompammm, I did a backup of the old config file20:41
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pompabut if I cannot access the system folder is quite useless20:41
pompaI suppose there is no "recovery mode" in maemo, am I right?20:42
NIN101pompa: if you are familiar with the linux console you can try to boot rescueOS20:42
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pompaNIN101, I'm not so familiar, but all I have to do is replace a file20:43
pompaNIN101, but actually I don't know how to boot a rescueOS20:43
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NIN101do you use linux pompa?20:44
pompaNIN101, Yes, I do20:45
pompaNIN101, I'm not an expert, though20:45
NIN101pompa: where is the backup of the file? On the rootfs itself?20:46
NIN101then you could just boot the initrd20:47
pompaI'm reading the rescueOS documentation20:47
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pompaNIN101, seems exactly what I need... Just need an SD to do the thing...20:51
NIN101you can download the initrd image, it does not requiere an sd.20:52
pompaNIN101, How do I manage to boot it on N900?20:53
NIN101turn it off20:53
NIN101download the kernel and the initrd20:53
NIN101flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0"20:53
NIN101and connect it with USB.20:53
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NIN101MohammadAG: Couldn't you guys modify /sbin/preinit so it restores the old config if the users wishes to do so?20:57
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pompaNIN101, for initrd.img you mean resos-0.4.img, right?21:01
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MohammadAGNIN101, don't you think that's too much of a big change?21:02
MohammadAGand no, I'm not prepared to deal with that file21:02
MohammadAGmultiboot edits it, backupmenu maybe editing it21:02
NIN101well, you are right.21:03
MohammadAGI'm working on a recovery-terminal21:03
MohammadAGthis would ideally force focus to itself and capture all key events21:03
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NIN101but somewhere else, /etc/init.d/rcS for example. or rcS-late, just before Xorg starts.21:04
pompaNIN101, USB device found found at bus 001, device address 009.21:05
pompaError claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted21:05
NIN101you have to be root.21:06
pompaNIN101, ok21:06
smharI am trying to update my N900 and it seems there is an update to SSU but when I try yo update I got an error that it conflicts with libqt4-test. trying to remove that will also remove python2.5-qt4 . what should I do?21:08
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MohammadAGcan someone post the output of "which root" in terminal?21:13
SiceloMohammadAG: by the way, i read somewhere that u were able to flash one N900 with another. this required powered hub, or is one N900 able to provide sufficient power for the whole operation?21:13
MohammadAGsmhar, remove libqt4-test21:13
MohammadAGSicelo, no hub21:13
RST38hMohammadAG: it is in ~ I think21:13
MohammadAGthe N900s are self powered, they just won't charge21:13
RST38hMohammadAG: sorry, wrong, just a FileBox script referring to it is in ~21:14
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smharMohammadAG, can I install python2.5-qt4 later?21:15
MohammadAGno, you don't need it21:15
MohammadAGif apps are depending on it, it's wrong21:16
Sicelothanks for the info. lastly, what was the reason why flasher is installed on N900 itself? just curious21:16
smharMohammadAG, wont I need it if I wanted to develop qt python applications with qt libraries?21:17
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NIN101Sicelo: for kernel updates I think.21:17
MohammadAGit's just a meta package that depends on other packages21:18
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pompaNIN101, I replaced the file, and It's working as before... You really saved me!21:26
NIN101pompa: yw :-).21:26
pompaI'll be back to know how to make the transitions.ini file working21:27
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pompathe one I used this time was the one that i found on the maemo talk... but as you know it doesn't work21:27
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pompaNIN101, anyway rescueOS is a great tool. It is also easy to use and well documented21:29
pompaNIN101, thaks a lot21:29
MohammadAGGot a working terminal that gains focus without a window manager21:30
MohammadAGQt terminal widget is also a static lib, so it's only one binary21:30
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, ping21:38
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smharis it me, or the update of the SSU is taking way too much time!21:42
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MohammadAGsecurity packages take some time to install21:44
javispedromoo gentlemen.21:46
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javispedrointeresting stuff =)21:51
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MohammadAGjavispedro, yeah, now I need to figure out how to know when dsmetool stopped trying to start hildon-desktop21:58
MohammadAGit's in syslog21:58
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javispedrothere might a upstart stanza for that21:58
smharMohammadAG, this long? I have an almost blank screen with only the status area visible21:59
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smhareven opening the camera cover does nothing !22:00
javispedroaw sorry it's dsme as you said doing the respawning, not upstart.22:00
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smharshould I reboot?22:08
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smharI am starting to be worried. it is still blank screen22:16
MohammadAGsmhar, hildon-desktop crashed22:24
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smharMohammadAG, what should I do?22:24
MohammadAGwhat's with people breaking transitions.ini recently22:24
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MohammadAGsmhar, does hildon-desktop start after a reboot22:25
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MohammadAGsmhar, do you have ssh?22:25
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smhardid not reboot yet22:25
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MohammadAGyou can safely reboot as of 16.722:26
smharwhat is16.722:27
MohammadAGversion 16.7 of the CSSU22:27
smharreboot ok. desktop is there. but how would I know if the update is successful?22:28
smhartrying the update again...22:29
smharit did not complete.. update of SSU is still listed22:30
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MohammadAGapt-get install mp-fremantle-community-pr in terminal22:31
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smharthe second attempt was successful22:39
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smharthank you MohammadAG22:39
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MohammadAGyw smhar22:55
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