IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-08-22

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vi__ yo00:39
vi__I am trying to run a script at boot00:39
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vi__this script will mount bind a directory in opt to Mydocs00:39
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vi__mount --bind /opt/maps_osm /user/home/MyDocs/.maps00:40
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vi__this allows me to store all the maps in opt00:40
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vi__I have a script in called 80mount00:41
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vi__it contains the line echo "blah/path/script/" | root | echo ""00:41
vi__if I run this script manually it works00:42
vi__i.e. i type path to xsession script00:42
vi__however at boot IT JUST DOESNT FUCKING WORK00:42
vi__the script is running00:43
vi__i have added a test routine to touch a file when it executes00:43
vi__does anyone have any suggestions as to why this does not work?00:43
vi__is there even anyone listening?00:44
NIN101sure you can pipe to "root"?00:44
vi__well the fact i can excute it from xterm shows I can00:44
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vi__are xsession scripts run as root or user?00:45
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NIN101hmm indeed it is possible to pipe th at. Well, create a Xsession script with whoami and find that out... or edit a bootscript like rcS-late00:49
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NIN101also why do you want to bind mount that? /home/opt is bind mounted to /opt, it should be possible to work with symlinks here.00:51
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javispedroGAN900: ping01:15
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javispedroMohammadAG: ping01:17
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nusse_can i trust the last-full value of my battery on my n900?01:40
jacekowskidepends on how you understand this value01:41
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nusse_jacekowski: well, is it any indicator if i should get a new battery01:49
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jacekowskinusse_: not really01:50
e-yesis kexec still broken in n900 kernels?01:50
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LarsNhave any of you had an N900 that even when on the factory wall charger gives the nokia (without backlight) background and no orange charging led.  Then just the orange charging led,  then the orange led, plus the non-backlit nokia, rinse, repeat01:53
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LarsNI suspect I need to re-flash the device, but I can't keep it powered on long enough to initialize.  It started this midway through a dist-upgrade.01:53
nusse_LarsN: happens for me all the time01:55
LarsNnusse_: any suggestions?01:55
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nusse_i suspect powerkernel01:55
nusse_just leave it there for an hour and it might boot01:56
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LarsNwouldn't flashing the image replace the kernel with the default?01:56
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LarsNbecause I did that friday first, in an attempt to start over from zero.01:56
nusse_well at least i guess01:56
LarsNflashed the device.  blew aways /home/users/*01:56
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LarsNapt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade (after installing the gainroot package)01:57
LarsNcrash mid way through.01:57
NIN101never use apt-get upgrade on maemo...02:00
LarsNNIN101: ok.....  Now that the damage is done...  Do you agree it may have charged enough in the last two days that a flash might get it to boot again?02:01
jacekowskidoes anybody have cheap n900 for sale?02:01
NIN101LarsN: I don't know...02:02
NIN101LarsN: How much % do you think it still have02:02
LarsNno idea02:03
LarsNI thought it was at 50% or more when I was upgrading it friday02:03
LarsNit's been on the desktop charger since friday evening.02:03
LarsNworst case I'll go buy an external Battery charger for it.02:03
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, pong?02:04
NIN101so it does not boot LarsN?02:04
LarsNit starts to, white nokia screen02:04
LarsNthen powers off02:04
NIN101ok this means it does not boot02:04
LarsNbefore the music.02:04
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GeneralAntillesWho the hell is onSale?02:06
javispedroyeah, ships US only and sounds .. uneasy.02:06
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GeneralAntillesWould if it were a reputable dealer02:06
GeneralAntillesNever heard of onSale02:06
jacekowskii'm looking for cheap N900 in the UK02:07
nusse_same price
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javispedrorumour has it the supposed 200,000 bestbuy units will be sold via hp.com02:09
NIN101LarsN: So I really don't know if you should try reflashing the rootfs. If you have a microsd you could install meego on it by using your PC, and boot that because it can charge the batttery. Maybe you have enough power for a reflash, maybe not...02:09
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LarsNNIN101: if I install Meego on the SD card, how do I select that OS to boot from?02:25
LarsNdone't I need a separate boot loader to choose?  or is there a keyboard shortcut?02:26
NIN101this is documented.02:26
LarsNNIN101: I've not tried installing MeeGo at all, so....  I haven't looked at, or even considered looking for the documents.02:27
NIN101 I suggest you read everything02:27
LarsNI'm pretty sure nuclear fusion reactors are documented too.  :)  Thanks for the link, will read that before I dive into anything further :)02:27
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NIN101This is wise ;).02:32
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DocScrutinizer(<LarsN> NIN101: ok.....  Now that the damage is done...  Do you agree it may have charged enough in the last two days that a flash might get it to boot again?) If NOLO refuses to stay on NOKIA screen with USB logo when you hold 'U' key while booting, then batery is too low03:03
DocScrutinizersimple as that03:03
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* javispedro sighs at the stupidity of android05:01
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javispedroso when I pointed to these guys that the touchpad not only already has an android kernel but even has most android garbage enabled (like ashm), I am laughed off as a troll.05:02
javispedromaybe I should thank god I didn't get to the part where I wonder why they ask for donations if HP's done most of the job.05:02
* javispedro also sighs at the stupidity of HP.05:03
javispedroI bet this is the reason why Palm employees are quoted as saying they hated HP's hardware. They were forced to get an Android kernel to get hw support for the chipset HP choosed.05:03
javispedroif you were wondering when would Android start damaging the Linux kernel, wonder no more.05:04
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Macerthey want donations for vaporware?05:54
Macerwebos is actually nkt that bad05:54
Maceri dont see what the big deal is05:54
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jpinxcan anyone help me sort out usb modnem mode - I have followed the guide, installed the kernel upgrade and iptable and configured masquerading - but still no connection :(07:33
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: MohammadAG: Barnes&Noble has touchpads07:36
javispedroand with this I leave07:36
wmarone__no, I still need to finish hacking my nook color!07:37
* wmarone__ resists07:37
javispedroseems that B&N is overpricing them a bit07:37
javispedroI'd wait for tomorrow, and see what does.07:38
jpinxjavispedro: sounds like a nokia scenario again ;)07:38
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Termanagood morning08:00
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slonopotamusis there any 3-way diff tool for maemo?08:40
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edwinsageDo you mean for text merging, specifically?08:47
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edwinsageI'm only really familiar with the 770/800/810.  Are you using one of those?08:51
slonopotamusnm, building meld... maemo5.08:52
edwinsageThere's a diffmo package with diff3 for Fremantle in Extras-devel.08:52
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slonopotamus_ last changelog entry is nice :)09:05
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cityLightswhy can't I watch amazon instant video on my N900?09:43
cityLightscan the N950 do it?09:44
cityLightsdoes the N9 suopport flash 10?09:44
SpeedEvilThe n950 does not have flash.09:44
SpeedEvilI don't think anyones broken the NDA as to what the n9 may hae.09:44
SpeedEvilI would lke to say that nokia wouldn't consider releasing it without flash.09:45
mecewell it has flashplayer.so09:45
SpeedEvilIt does?09:45
cityLightsassuming the N9 does have flash 1009:45
cityLightscan this be the reason to upgrade?09:45
meceSpeedEvil, well it's for playing movies09:45
meceSpeedEvil, or perhaps I'm confused.09:45
SpeedEvilI see no on the n950 filesystem09:46
meceyou're right. I was confused.09:47
cityLightsIt should have some sort of accelerated graphics09:47
DocScrutinizerlike iPhone?09:47
cityLightsmaybe a dsp to play video?09:47
mecewell it doesn't have flash09:47
meceit plays flash videos very smoothly in the video player though.09:48
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, umm I hate to go offtopic but curiously.. how the hell did you get your hands on N950 when you were initially accepted into the dev team? Do they actually `rotate' the developers that are in the dev program?09:48
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: SpeedEvil, umm I hate to go offtopic but curiously.. how the hell did you get your hands on N950 when you weren't initially accepted into the dev team? Do they actually `rotate' the developers that are in the dev program?09:49
SpeedEvilI was successful in my application to the program for the second round of dev devices09:49
psycho_oreosso you did make it in -_-09:49
DocScrutinizercommunity gave back some little bit of the support SpeedEvil gave09:52
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rtylerholy shit;; I just added the extras-devel repo09:59
rtylerthen I ignored a bunch of updates (hit the Ignore button)09:59
rtylerand it wiped *all* my app catalogues out O_O09:59
psycho_oreosthat shouldn't happen, but sometimes it may cause HAM to produce an error10:01
rtylerI'm so lost now10:01
psycho_oreoshmm on second thoughts, I guess the `app catalogues' were wiped was probably because of an error10:01
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psycho_oreosnormally when you have extras-devel enabled (mind you it is a huge repository), it can cause instability with HAM. You'll notice issues when you see the banner `Operation Failed'10:02
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rtylerman, all I want is Bluetooth PAN to work10:03
rtylerI didn't expect this to turn into an all day affair :/10:03
rtylercatalogues are back, wtf10:03
psycho_oreoslike I said :) you accepted the risk when you enabled extras-devel10:04
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psycho_oreosthe pandora's box is left wide open to you10:05
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rtylergrrr, I just need a bnep device!10:10
rtylerfollowing this guy's directions like a dolt:
rtylersomehow the kmod is loaded, but no device is created10:10
rtylerrather odd IMO10:10
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DocScrutinizerdon't expect a large number of users following the talk you referred to. Unless you elaborate here, you won't see answers here10:13
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rtyleryeah, I know10:14
rtylerI'm not sure how to properly characterize the problem either, other than "the device isn't where it's supposed to be"10:14
DocScrutinizerURL dropping is a good way to supply all the info for those already interested. It won't lure in anybody when he has to decide based on reading that talk if he can help and shall engage10:15
DocScrutinizerdropping the precise name of the device would probably help for example10:16
rtylerI did :)10:17
rtylerwell, bnep010:17
DocScrutinizerok, fair enough - no idea then10:17
rtylerin theory it's supplied by the pc-connectivity-manager package10:17
DocScrutinizersee, beter :-D10:17
rtylerthe bnep.ko module is also loaded properly10:18
DocScrutinizerso you modprobed a module but the corresponding device didn't show up in /dev ?10:18
DocScrutinizertail /var/log/syslog10:19
rtylerheh, I think I have ~20 tabs open to maemo trying to get this bluetooth tethering to work10:19
rtyleruh, am I supposed to have a /var/log/syslog?10:20
DocScrutinizeralso modinfo bnep.ko10:20
rtylerthere's no /var/log/messages either10:20
DocScrutinizerif not, use dmesg|tail10:20
DocScrutinizeror install ksyslog :-D10:20
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rtylernothing interesting AFAICT in dmesg10:22
DocScrutinizerrtyler: bnep is a bluetooth related device, no?10:23
DocScrutinizerdid you bother to *power up aka enable* general bluetooth hardware in settings?10:24
rtyleryeah, bluetooth is on10:24
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DocScrutinizerthen aiui a device *.ko is supposed to create a /dev/* - or at very least something in /sys10:25
SpeedEvilOr a network interface.10:25
DocScrutinizerI'd suggest to increase kernel logging verbosity10:25
DocScrutinizeryeah, or a network interface :-D10:26
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DocScrutinizeralas I have to run now. See if you can find help from SpeedEvil or in man dmesg etc about increasing kernel loglevel10:27
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SpeedEvilI would suggest alt-sysrq-9 - but that is silly10:27
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SpeedEvilrtyler: does hcitool dev show any devices?10:28
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rtyleryeah, hci010:29
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SpeedEvilSorry - I've not done bnep10:29
rtylerI was hoping the DUN profile would allow my tablet to properly tether, but it looks like it has to be PAN10:30
ruskiewhy not just run one of the hotspot things?10:30
ruskieand get wifi connection?10:30
rtylerandroid doesn't support ad-hoc networks10:30
DocScrutinizerDUN and PAN are completely different things10:31
rtylerhere's a guy that has pretty much the same setup (android tablet and n900):
DocScrutinizerwhile PAN is your "wlan for BT", DUN is "the 3G USB dongle attached via BT"10:32
rtyleryes, I'm aware. For some reason Android doesn't see the DUN profile come across in the pairing, which everything else on the internets led me to believe it would do10:32
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rtylerwhat the crap10:35
rtylerI re-paired10:35
rtylerand not it appears to work10:35
DocScrutinizerrtyler: a start would be to share modinfo dnep output as suggested before by me10:35
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rtyleris there something specific from the output that would be helpful? it is a bit of output and I am not sure how best to dump it off the device10:37
rtylerso I repaired the n900 with the tablet10:39
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rtylerand while bnep0 isn't listed with an `ifconfig` invokation10:39
rtylerinvoking `ifconfig bnep0` does print out information for the device10:40
Siceloifconfig alone shows u interfaces that are up. you can ifconfig -a to see all available interfaces10:42
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rtylerHOLY CRAP10:47
rtylerI got it to work!10:47
rtylerapparently on the Android device, the timeout for the DHCP request is *tiny*10:48
rtylerDocScrutinizer: thanks for your patience10:50
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cityLightsI just wish we had a better calnder to the maemo11:15
cityLightssomeone said they used the kde calender11:15
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ruskiecityLights, yes you can get kdepim on it... but it's slow as molasses11:19
cityLightsI mean, I paied 25$ for a calnder on the palm11:21
cityLightsi will be glad to pay 30$ for a maemo based calender11:21
SpeedEvilrtyler: Great!11:22
SpeedEvilrtyler: now fix the wiki.11:22
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DocScrutinizerrtyler: yw, np11:23
DocScrutinizercityLights: alas it seems neither Nokia nor subcontractors consider maemo(-fremantle) a platform where you even *could* sell software11:25
DocScrutinizercityLights: see my rant about telepathy yesterday11:25
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DocScrutinizerIf you'd consider building a proper calendar for fremantle and you'd by any chance needed some help/advice from "the gurus" I bet they laugh at you and suggest you should switch to meego instead11:26
cityLightsdoes meego have a good calender?11:27
DocScrutinizerprobably not that much better than maemo's11:27
cityLightssome sort of evolution....11:28
DocScrutinizerbut that's not the point in the end. The point is you are asking about help for a commercial product for maemo, and they suggest you should switch to a developers-only-meego instead11:29
cityLightswell, I didnt get my n950 ... so11:29
cityLightsbut this product - is in need11:30
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DocScrutinizerthis cmes over like Nokia isn't interested in any commercial apps on maemo-fremantle11:30
cityLightsbtw,no rents about telepathy in
cityLightstoo bad11:30
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DocScrutinizercityLights: [2011-08-20 16:53:44] <DocScrutinizer> If I ask for a function in telepathy, to build an app asked for by _end-users_ on fremantle, and I am utterly clear about that fact and ask collabora guys how I could possibly interface/intercept/patch telepathy to get it done, and the answer is "don't bother about maemo, do it on meego!" then that's *beeep*[censored]11:31
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jpinx_awayis there any way to control the n900 without the screen -  this one is bust :(11:33
DocScrutinizerh-e-n + usb mouse11:34
ruskiejpinx_away, plug it into a tv with the av?11:34
nid0or just ssh11:34
DocScrutinizerand AV of course11:34
psycho_oreosvnc (albeit, rather slow)11:34
jpinx_awayI'd like ssh butis need to config the usb0 don't I?11:34
robbiethe1stAV'd be your best bet11:35
DocScrutinizeralas hildon isn't built in a way you could *really* comletely control it by kbd shortcuts11:35
psycho_oreosusb0 is if youw ant to use USB networking11:35
ruskiejpinx_away, plug it in and it should have usb networking already going11:35
ruskieunless you changed something11:35
jpinx_awaypsycho_oreos: yep - that would be good if I can ssh in11:35
psycho_oreosand the key bindings isn't correct too via vnc11:35
chem|stpsycho_oreos: what are you talking about?11:36
psycho_oreosjpinx_away, there's two ways, using wireless or using maemo-dev-env11:36
jpinx_awayok - i need to go off again here and try ssh-ing more seriously ;)  thanks guys :)11:36
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jpinx_awayI use usb cable11:36
psycho_oreoschem|st, if I were to vnc into N900 and go into say console and what not. Typing some certain characters and what not doesn't work in my case11:36
chem|stjpinx_away: 70€ is a new lcd...11:36
DocScrutinizerjpinx_away: ssh over WLAN is WAY more convenient to set up - I.E. doesn't need any setup if you got sshd and wlan configured11:37
chem|stpsycho_oreos: that is settings...11:37
DocScrutinizermoo chem|st11:37
jpinx_awaywhat's the default IP on usb0?11:37
psycho_oreoschem|st, :o guess I'll have to look at that11:37
psycho_oreos192.168.2.15 iinm11:37
chem|stDocScrutinizer: without screen to start wlan...?11:37
chem|stpsycho_oreos: ;)11:37
jpinx_awaychem|st: not an option  -- I am testing before buying ;)11:37
chem|stmoo DocScrutinizer11:37
DocScrutinizerchem|st: my device doesn't need a screen to start wlyn11:37
cityLightsis anyone here from italy?11:37
psycho_oreostesting blindfolded :p11:38
psycho_oreoshow convenient :)11:38
cityLightsi some assistence11:38
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ruskiejpinx_away, iface usb0 inet static \n address \n netmask for /etc/network/interfaces11:38
chem|stDocScrutinizer: I have radius at the back so nothing like autoconnect...11:38
jpinx_awayruskie: thanks :)11:38
chem|stwell I know where to tap...11:38
ruskiejpinx_away, and you need: cdc_ether module loaded for usb0 on the desktop11:38
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chem|stjpinx_away: DocScrutinizer's idea with TV as screen is the easy way...11:39
jpinx_awayruskie: latop is running debian . I should be able to ifconfig that11:39
jpinx_awaychem|st: yep - if I had a TV ;)11:39
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ruskiejpinx_away, actually with debian... jsut copy paste that into: /etc/network/interfaces and then ifup usb011:40
chem|stI have a composite vga converter... and no tv11:40
DocScrutinizer"if I had a hammer...." *singing*11:40
jpinx_awayruskie: yep ;)11:40
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* jpinx_away is gone 11:40
* DocScrutinizer stops singing, this song actually is fsckng stupid11:40
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psycho_oreoslol that's stupid.. you can't strace kernel strings11:41
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: lol that's stupid.. you can't strace kernel threads11:41
DocScrutinizererr wut?11:41
vi__I have decided to move the maps folder to /opt/maps11:41
vi__I do this by:11:41
DocScrutinizeraah, no you can't11:41
vi__mount --bind /opt/maps /home/user/MyDocs/.maps11:42
ruskievi__, sounds fine11:42
vi__It is11:42
vi__it works great11:42
DocScrutinizerbut not in initscrips... yayaya11:42
ruskiewas waiting for that but11:42
ruskiesetup an init script to do it for you11:42
ruskieor modify the one that mounts home to do so11:43
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, I'm trying to find out why bridge-work-que is hogging the CPU every few seconds. Its a huge battery drain if I disconnect it off the charger for a few hours11:43
vi__psycho_oreos: lol, tracker or thu,bnailer has gone bezerk11:43
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vi__psycho_oreos: check for broken thumbnails, restart and rebuild tracker DB11:43
DocScrutinizerbridge-work-queue ? what does that do?11:43
psycho_oreosthere was a bug thing created for bridge_work-que but that was for old firmware11:43
psycho_oreosvi__, bah thumbnails, thanks I'll have to go look I suppose11:44
vi__psycho_oreos: at least in every case where that has happened to me it has been the case11:44
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: if you got problems of any kind, killing thumbnailerd and trackerd is always a good first step to aproach the issue11:45
psycho_oreosvi__, heh its the exact same answer as that reported bug. I don't know how they found out it was thumbnailer *shrugs* ahh well11:45
vi__what is the name of the init script that deals with mounts?11:45
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, that's temporarily :) it'll respawn and starts the whole thing again11:45
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: yeah, you probably want to stop it, or sth11:46
chem|stwouldn't a bare fstab entry be enough at it is userland anyways?11:46
ruskiechem|st, fstab isn't supported on m511:46
psycho_oreosvi__, I've personally never had much luck with setting binding mounts at boot. lcuk showed me the way with symlinking it and to me its a godsend11:46
chem|struskie: thought it is just not used11:46
ruskieunless you modify the init scripts11:46
ruskiechem|st, nope it gets regenerated on each boot11:46
DocScrutinizereither killall -SIGSTOP, or actually `stop trackerd` or sth11:46
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, better yet.. find the culprit and get rid of it, problem is where :/11:46
vi__psycho_oreos: can symlink shit on f****g fat3211:46
ruskievi__, so stop using f.... vfat11:47
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: I said first step to approach the real culprit11:47
chem|struskie: ah that was with that "mount first vfat you find as MyDocs" crap11:47
psycho_oreosvi__, ah you still have MyDocs as fat32, why not shove it inside /home|/opt?11:47
chem|stlong time ago...11:47
vi__psycho_oreos: thats is what I am doing!11:47
ruskiemy init setup on the n900 actually supports fstab properly11:48
DocScrutinizerruskie: HAHAHA11:48
vi__psycho_oreos: however all programs use ...Mydocs/.maps as a common dumping ground for maps11:48
ruskieDocScrutinizer, ?11:48
DocScrutinizerruskie: ""stop using VFAT"" - how's he supposed to do that? cmpletely rewrite the partitioning and some apps, or switching to another OS?11:49
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, well killing it won't do much imo :) its now tethered to charger. So I guess while its charged and bridge_work-que is hogging %CPU every so often, I'm just going to find the culprit image/video/whatever, remove it and rebuild db11:49
ruskieDocScrutinizer, erm... it can be done11:49
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DocScrutinizersure, and it's for sure almost as easy as a bindmount11:49
ruskiea tad more involved... but the instructions are on the wiki and tmo11:50
vi__DocScrutinizer: I would happily ditch fscking fat32, however I need to maintain backwartd compatability to 'lesser' OSes11:50
psycho_oreosvi__, true and not only that the perms will somewhat be screwed up when it gets into /home|/opt. I guess the other thing is that it'll also make your .maps inaccessible if you set it to mass storage mode as well11:50
jpinxruskie: that failed  cos I can not select PCsuite mode on plugin by usb :(11:50
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ruskiejpinx, you shouldn't need to11:50
jpinxin the laptop there was no usb0 interface on plugin11:51
ruskiejpinx, did you load the cdc_ether module?11:51
jpinxifconfig failed :(11:51
ruskieon the laptop11:51
vi__I thought about an EXT4 MyDocs but ultimatley decided it would be more flexable to make a 16GB /home|/opt and just move certain stuff there and use mount bind11:51
vi__Unfortunatley I still have to deal with doze from time to time11:52
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jpinxruskie:  I use my good n900 with this laptop all the time -- so it works11:52
* DocScrutinizer idly points at bug in camera (as of <= PR1.1?) where root created the DCIM dir (or sth similar) and then camera-ui borked when DCIM been on a non-VFAT fs as the permissions of camera-ui weren't sufficient for the directory to write to it :-P11:52
keriofucking hell nokia11:53
jpinxI am trying to test an n900 with brokewn screen before investing in it11:53
DocScrutinizeroriginal bug report: "camera fails on ext3"11:53
SpeedEviljpinx: YOu know about composite out?11:53
psycho_oreosI was looking at resizing /home|/opt from 2GB to 4GB but I couldn't find a single guide. Rather there was a guide on how to reverse the roles of /home|/opt and /home/user/MyDocs around: i.e. /home/user/MyDocs on 2GB and /home|/opt on 29GB11:53
jpinxSpeedEvil: no TV here11:53
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: you just modify emmc image11:54
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, should be fixed, its a ownership + perms issue iirc11:54
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: and replace 2048 with 4096 in it11:54
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: sure11:54
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: mohammadag done that11:54
psycho_oreosjacekowski, *scratches head* the firmware?11:54
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: no11:54
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: and yes it was about permissions, thought it was implicitly obvious from my description11:54
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: emmc image11:54
vi__psycho_oreos: alternativley, install backup menu.  Enable USB read/write mode.  Use gparted for your nefarious schemes.11:55
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: firmware is in fiasco image and you have to flash that too later on11:55
jpinxruskie: on plugin the usb, I thought you have to select PC Suite Mode ?11:55
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, heh, wasn't paying close attention11:55
jpinxas far as I can tell this n900 has never been ssh'd before11:55
psycho_oreosjacekowski, the vanilla image? that .bin blob? ;)11:55
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: there are similar issues where a directory or file is accessed under "file" and "File" and "FILE"11:55
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: yeah11:56
Sicelojpinx: yes.. if you have usb0 up once.. you can even use charging mode..11:56
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin11:56
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psycho_oreosvi__, lol I'd avoid that personally, a bricked N900 (which I've just gone through) was not fun :)11:56
jacekowskiin beggining of the file there is something like11:56
jacekowski        partition {11:56
jacekowski                size = 3072;11:56
jacekowski                fs_type = "ext3";11:56
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jacekowskiget hex editor and change that to whatever you want11:57
jacekowskithen flash both images11:57
jpinxSicelo: ok - what happens when its a virgin and the screen is borked?11:57
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, yeah that's with caps issue, FAT* doesn't discriminate filenames with capital letters or not but not with *nix fs :)11:57
vi__psycho_oreos: Well, It is how I do it.  Right after a reflash, first thing.  Re-size /opt with gparted.11:57
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: look at joerg_rw/tools wikipage. There you got a "howto" on resizing the /home partition11:58
jacekowskivi__: why not flash it with image that has different size of that partition11:58
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: if you want i can modify the image for you11:58
psycho_oreosjacekowski, interesting, I thought it was all jumbled.. ahh well its a bit too late now, I've taken on the route of converting my /home/user/MyDocs from FAT32 to ext311:58
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: along the line of what jacekowski suggested11:58
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: you don't really want to do that11:58
psycho_oreosjacekowski, its ok :) thanks. I think it'll be somewhat a pain to almost redo my setup again :)11:59
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, I'll take a look, maybe I can do that on my spare N90011:59
vi__BTW, CSSU camera-ui replacement fixes saving to FS bug.11:59
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: you'll most likely end up with a bootlooping system, if you finally arrive at MyDocs=ext311:59
jacekowskicamera-ui is closed12:00
jacekowskiso i doubt that12:00
vi__jacekowski: No, the replacement for camera-ui12:00
psycho_oreosjacekowski, bit too late :/ I thought that was the easiest way out as backupmenu + USB read/write mode I thought wouldn't give me proper access (definitely mistaken now, bit too slow)12:00
DocScrutinizervi__: CSSU camera-ui replacement is one of the huge flaws of CSSU as that camera bit never should've got into CSSU12:01
vi__DocScrutinizer: the guide to converting mydocs to ext3 goes into changing genfstab.awk to avoid boot loop.12:01
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, I followed Lantizia's HOWTO, works without bootloops. Though I did it twice to have a success, the first time I couldn't mount /home/user/MyDocs, ended up with bootloops, etc.12:01
vi__DocScrutinizer: camera-ui in cSSU, meh.12:01
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Sicelojpinx: wlan then, as per DocScrutinizer ... you can Shift-Ctrl-X to bring up Xterm. i dunno how to connect to wlan from there though12:02
DocScrutinizerfair enough, as that'S the bare minimum you'll have to do on top of all the acrobatics to change fs itself12:02
psycho_oreosvi__, the HOWTO by Lantizia?12:03
vi__psycho_oreos: I don't know that howto.12:03
DocScrutinizervi__: eh??12:03
ErwinJungeIs it possible to somehow expose the gps in the n900 to a pc via usb?12:03
psycho_oreosvi__, ahh ok, fyi:
vi__psycho_oreos: however you will have to change genfstab.awk to llok for partition type 82 instead of fat12:04
jacekowskiErwinJunge: there was something for that12:04
DocScrutinizervi__: (<vi__> DocScrutinizer: camera-ui in cSSU, meh.) MEH indeed. but I think you meant sth different12:04
jacekowskiErwinJunge: via virtual serial port or something like that12:04
Sicelowhat about Columbus :/12:04
vi__psycho_oreos: oh that guide.  Yeah.12:05
ErwinJungejacekowski: Did some quick googling, but couldn't find anything definitive.12:05
jacekowskiErwinJunge: columbus iirc12:05
ErwinJungeSicelo: Does columbus share the gps via usb as well? I use it for gps access on the phone.12:05
psycho_oreosvi__, I guess Lantizia's method averted all that because he mentioned that maemo assumes 82 is /home and if both /home/user/MyDocs && /home|/opt are 82, it'll mount both as /home|/opt or something. So he changed the FS ID to 42 which he says its old linux partition ID12:05
psycho_oreosvi__, heh that guide I noticed in the code portion only changes two files. I wasn't aware it changed genfstab.awk12:06
Sicelocheck under Tools12:06
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ErwinJungeThanks, googling on n900 columbus usb got me some interesting results12:06
chem|stErwinJunge: columbus shars gps via anything12:06
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: a lot of more prudent people changed size of MyDocs from 27GB to sth like 2GB in favour of /home growth, while keeping the VFAT fs on it12:06
vi__ok, I have added:12:08
ErwinJungejacekowski, Sicelo, chem|st: That's amazing :) I've been using columbus for gps info on the device for a long time but never knew about the extra features like sharing over bluetooth/usb :) Thanks for the pointer!12:08
vi__echo "mount some shit" > /etc/fstab in rcS-late after genfstab.awk is called.12:08
DocScrutinizervi__: what will happen if you ever have to reflash rootfs?12:09
vi__I have to do ALL THIS SHIT AGAIN.12:09
vi__but at least I will know what to do12:10
vi__oh and BUM12:10
DocScrutinizervi__: PLUS you have to flash == erase all your eMMC12:10
chem|stor it wont even boot I guess12:10
robbiethe1stIf you've got PK, use the BM terminal12:11
chem|stanother happy customer!12:11
robbiethe1stheh, yea12:11
DocScrutinizermoo robbiethe1st12:11
vi__robbiethe1st: I do, and I shall.12:11
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robbiethe1stOh, that reminds me. Do you know where the N950 flashable images are, DocScrutinizer ?12:11
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vi__robbiethe1st: how to tab with BM console?12:12
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, yeah there was guide by: 白い熊12:12
DocScrutinizeryes, I know I have a link to one_click_flasher12:12
robbiethe1stvi__: shift+space12:12
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DocScrutinizervi__: ctrl-i ?12:12
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robbiethe1stIt's... pali?'s KB layout12:14
vi__robbiethe1st: thank you12:14
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: there's that landing zone in #harmattan topic. You got everything there, in max 2 clicks distance12:14
vi__robbiethe1st: another question.  How to suppress output of charging script while in root console?  It keeps outputting all over my screen12:14
robbiethe1stNot sure12:15
robbiethe1stYou can always kill the charging script, but...12:15
vi__robbiethe1st: where is the charging script?12:15
robbiethe1stI need to upload a new version12:15
DocScrutinizervi__: ouch12:15
robbiethe1stuh... /bin/charge.sh12:15
vi__is it incorporated in BM main script?12:15
vi__robbiethe1st: ok, Il just REM out the echo line.12:15
robbiethe1stthat'll work12:16
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: maybe redirect output of >/dev/null or sth?12:16
robbiethe1stremember, however, that the copy in /bin is in memory12:16
robbiethe1stYea, why not12:16
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robbiethe1stthat will allow it to be run without it for debug12:16
vi__robbie how to get '>' in root console?12:17
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robbiethe1stshift + > maby? alt+ >?12:17
SpeedEvilpress symbol12:17
SpeedEvilthen the vkbd pops up12:18
robbiethe1stSpeedEvil: In BM terminal12:18
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DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: I think I could have a short review and edit on to come up with a somewhat more sophisticated script that has things like "--quiet" and maybe even "--daemonize"12:18
robbiethe1stDocScrutinizer: Go ahead. I'm all for it12:18
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vi__robbiethe1st: thank you robbie, you are a total bro.12:19
robbiethe1stYea, NP12:19
vi__I hope you spen my donations on drugz 'n beers.12:19
robbiethe1stheh, I wish. IIRC, I spent it on a replacement USB port(5, actually)  for my N90012:20
robbiethe1stSo, I have to ask. Who's the djszapi guy in #harmattan? He acts like he knows everything, seems to not like anyone's plan to improve *anything*,, and seems just plain unhelpful12:23
ErwinJungeWhat is this BM you're talking about? I took a guess at either battery monitor or battery management, but can't find anything on google. Link?12:24
vi__Un-fscking believable12:24
chem|strobbiethe1st: sounds like abill...12:24
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vi__My line is in fstab, it is added in rcS-late12:24
robbiethe1stErwinJunge: BackupMenu12:24
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, backupmenu is
vi__/opt/somepath /somepath none bind12:25
ErwinJungerobbiethe1st: thanks12:25
robbiethe1stchem|st: Yes, it does, now that I think about it12:25
vi__when I run mount -a it mounts12:25
vi__but it STILL doesnt mount at boot12:25
vi__how is this even possible?12:25
chem|strobbiethe1st: pain!12:25
chem|stkick from channel!12:26
robbiethe1stI would if I had any powers12:26
vi__what order is items in fstab mounted?12:28
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psycho_oreosI think the fstab file is ignored at boot time12:30
vi__psycho_oreos: no12:31
vi__it is used to mount everything12:31
vi__it is created automatically, used to mount12:32
SpeedEvilfstab is autogenerated12:32
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SpeedEvilThere is a crappy awk script12:32
jacekowskiand there is something else12:32
jacekowskibash script that specifies -t vfat12:32
vi__jacekowski: yes?12:32
jacekowskiso you have to modify that as well12:32
ruskiefstab is ignored12:32
jacekowskiruskie: no it's not12:32
ruskieunless you modify the init scripts12:32
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vi__so, how do I get somthing to be mounted at boot?????:?12:33
ruskiejacekowski, considering I've modified the scripts to actually respect fstab12:33
ruskievi__, you create a new init script for it12:33
ruskieor modify existing ones12:33
vi__if fstab is ignored, why is the system unbootable if fstab is broken?12:33
psycho_oreoshave a look here :)
psycho_oreosugh that's a rather long link12:34
ruskiefstab gets generated on each boot12:34
vi__ruskie: if it is ignored, what is the pooint in generating it?12:35
ruskiemount might want it to exist12:35
vi__what must I do to enable it?12:35
ruskieto enable fstab?12:36
ruskie read the comments in the script12:36
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vi__gah, why is maemo so hackish?12:40
ruskieI should update that info with my current setup though12:40
ruskievi__, because it's made for hacking ;)12:40
ruskieand possibly propose a patch to cssu for it12:40
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vi__this is going to fcking kill me12:42
vi__My line exists in fstab12:42
vi__if I type mount -a it mounts12:42
ruskiebut on a reboot it should disapear12:42
ruskieatleast it always did here12:42
vi__if i type mount /home/opt/maps_osm it mounts12:42
vi__I have an event.d script that calls mount /home/opt/maps_osm12:43
vi__it runs12:43
ruskieno fstab entry12:43
vi__I Dont get it12:43
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ruskiefstab gets regenerated on reboot12:43
vi__There  is a fstab entry12:44
ruskieunless something changed12:44
vi__ruskie: I have an 'echo "/mount/stuff /here none bind"12:44
vi__ruskie: I have an 'echo "/mount/stuff /here none bind"'12:44
vi__in rcS-late12:44
vi__the line is in fstab12:44
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vi__it is added to the autogenerated fstab12:44
vi__at boot12:44
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crashanddieplease don't use enter as punctuation12:45
ruskievi__, my suggestion is don't bother with fstab12:45
vi__if I type 'mount /home/opt/maps_osm' it mounts in the right place12:45
ruskieand just add mount --bind /a /b12:45
ruskieinto the event script12:45
vi__done, rebooting12:47
ruskie/srv/storage             /mnt/storage     bind       defaults,bind     0 0 <-- that's a bind mount entry on my server at home btw12:47
vi__ruskie, and that is what I would use normally.  However genfstab.awk uses /here /there none bind12:48
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jpinxruskie: I bought it on the basis that it powers-up, so probably will work  ;)  Now I'll do a screen swap and set it up to accept the usb connection without need for any input, and do everything by ssh...12:52
jpinxruskie: you'll be hearing more about this experiment ;)12:53
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vi__ruskie this will blow your mind12:55
vi__I have created an /event.d/mounts12:55
vi__It contains exec mount --bind /a /b12:56
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ruskiedoes not work?12:56
vi__from console if I type 'start mounts', it executes the file and mounts the directories.12:56
vi__However!  It does not work at boot.12:56
vi__it runs, but does not mount anything12:57
ruskieand you're certain it runs?12:57
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vi__ruskie: yes13:03
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psycho_oreoswho had that link on spotting between a real and fake N9 lol, you know that link would come in real handy13:10
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* SpeedEvil is reminded of "funnel or tunnel".13:15
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psycho_oreosthere's a pre-order N9 (!) for sale on fleabay, who knows if its a scam or you end up getting W9 *snickers*13:21
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psycho_oreoscodenamed: Sea Ray13:21
ErwinJungeAh, that one13:21
ErwinJungeYou seriously want an N9?13:22
DocScrutinizervi__: probably it runs too early, or in an inappropriate environment13:22
psycho_oreosits quite sad too that there's very little difference between the two when viewed from a distance. One can easily mistake N9 with W9 or vice versa from a distance13:22
psycho_oreosErwinJunge, I'd somewhat prefer N950 but I guess I have no choice but to get N9 :)13:22
ErwinJungeI'd miss my keyboard too much with N9, just sticking to the N900 for now13:23
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DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: probably hw kbd is your least problem when migrating from N900 to N913:24
psycho_oreosthat's the one thing that worries me with N9, its easy to lose virtual keyboard on N900. Without purchasing a bluetooth keyboard or reflashing N9, how the hell is one going to get their virtual keyboard back?13:24
ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: What else?13:25
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DocScrutinizerN9 has an all different OS, though some claim it's still maemo. I don't actually buy that for a maemo OS13:25
ErwinJungeOh yeah, that too. I like the ecosystem here.13:26
DocScrutinizerthe whole philosophy of HARM is tailored towards "end-user me-too iPhone look alike"13:26
Arkenoionce we will have a .deb to kick aegis down and gtk libraries it is much like maemo :-)13:26
robbiethe1stDocScrutinizer: That's for sure13:27
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, I suppose this would go against your NDA, but have you ever had virtual keyboard disappearing on you with N950?13:27
psycho_oreosor can I not ask that?13:27
robbiethe1stI can say I haven't had it happen when it wasn't supposed to13:27
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: the vkbd is actually pretty nice13:27
DocScrutinizerthat's neither against my NDA nor do i use vkbd a lot on N95013:27
DocScrutinizervkbd still is a PITA13:28
robbiethe1stLatter part is also true13:28
Arkenoiwhat really sucks is lack of landscape mode on most apps just like lack of portrait mode on n90013:28
nid0n950 lacks swype preloaded that the n9 comes with though13:28
vi__please, for the love of god in all that is holy.  Can someone make a pastebin of their /etc/event.d/xsession file.13:28
robbiethe1stI have to ask... do you know if they'll implement landscape mode on the desktop in harmattan?13:28
vi__I am begging you.13:28
robbiethe1stvi__: n900 or n950?13:28
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: indeed13:28
hiemanshunid0: we might get it in the later half13:28
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, I'm quite worried because installing international language input such as scim for instance can easily screw up vkbd.. and to lose vkbd when you're on the move can be a real pita13:29
DocScrutinizerbut what sucks most is aegis13:29
* Jaffa considers tapping GAN900 up to get him a TouchPad for Mrs Jaffa13:29
DocScrutinizeryou're not master of your own device, even when you got root13:29
hiemanshuJaffa: I need one too!13:29
hiemanshubut stupid B&N wont accept my card :(13:29
nid0wish I could pick a couple up, the sale doesnt seem to have reached the uk though :<13:30
DocScrutinizervi__: mompls13:30
psycho_oreosvi__, /etc/event.d/xsession13:30
psycho_oreosahh well13:30
* psycho_oreos failed in two ways :/13:31
vi__2nd, how to kill charger script13:31
robbiethe1stsudo gainroot; stop bme?13:31
vi__I cannot type all that stuff in with stupid charger values clobbering whole screen13:31
robbiethe1stOr, for BM... run 'top', kill it13:32
robbiethe1stpidof, kill *pid*13:32
psycho_oreosanyhow, I guess we'll see how well N9 performs with its vkbd and user wanting to use international input language(s)13:32
psycho_oreospkill charge.sh13:32
ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: What I don't understand about Aegis is why? Why go through all the trouble to put that in there? What does Nokia gain?13:32
psycho_oreosor kill `pidof`13:32
hiemanshuErwinJunge: a reason to hate meego13:32
crashanddieErwinJunge, trust from the media universe.13:33
psycho_oreosErwinJunge, cripple one's experience with meego/maemo platform13:33
hiemanshuErwinJunge: a reason to make people hate meego13:33
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robbiethe1stErwinJunge: one guy was talking about it being some sort of requirement for carriers, and thus for meego13:33
Appiahhmm? anything wrong with the N9 vkbd ?13:33
jonwilyeah Nokia gains trust from the media companies who will be more willing to release their content for these platforms13:33
jonwili.e. the platforms with Aegis13:33
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: probably it's legacy from a time when Nokia thought *all* their smartphones will have maemo/meego13:33 I have to re-type xsession file on littel n900 KB with crumby busybox vi13:33
robbiethe1stI, for one, want to see it broken as wide as possible. So, as long as it's wipable, and I can have it removed on mine, great.13:33
Venemo_N950robbiethe1st, yeah13:34
psycho_oreosAppiah, no, none that I know of (plus I don't even own one myself). I'm just afraid of losing vkbd with N9 when it comes to inputting foreign language characters on N9 as it did with N900 (note that I skipped N950, that's because I actually don't own one)13:34
robbiethe1stvi__: Um... pull out your uSD card, load it on, plug it back in, remount, copy?13:34
hiemanshuErwinJunge: also, so you can have angry birds :P13:34
Venemo_N950robbiethe1st, javispedro managed to turn it off for good13:34
vi__howto mount sd under bm?13:34
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: N900 has a vkdb?13:34
robbiethe1stor mountsd.sh13:35
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: hey13:35
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jonwilI suspect what will happen is people will come up with an unsigned kernel that ignores the13:35
vi__robbie, you are the greatest.13:35
robbiethe1stOh, and it unmounts everything upon exit, so...13:35
Venemo_N950hey hiemanshu :)13:35
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jonwilthat ignores the "turn Aegis on" flags from the usermode daemon13:35
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, you meant vkbd, yes it does when you don't have the physical keyboard hanging out, and there's extra chars menu via Sym|Cntrl + blue arrow13:35
Appiahpsycho_oreos oh , when I still had a n900 I never used the vkbd13:36
DocScrutinizerhi jonwil :-D13:36
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: nope cant see it :(13:36
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: maybe its not present in the indian images13:36
psycho_oreosAppiah, with N9, you'll be _forced_ to use vkbd until you buy maybe a bluetooth keyboard and hope that damn thing works when you're caught in a bind :)13:36
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hiemanshupsycho_oreos: well, bluetoothe kbd + duct-tape works13:37
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, weird, but Sym|Ctrl + blue arrow brings up extra characters menu?13:37
Appiahdont see why the n9 vkbd would lack let say a swedish qwerty layout13:37
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: yeah, that works13:37
Appiahbut yes that will be a big WTF13:37
jonwilwill be interesting to see what the Google+Motorola deal does to the mobile landscape13:37
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psycho_oreoshiemanshu, that's what I said :) but it'll be handy for someone to also sniff typed letters :p fun!13:38
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jonwilIt wont affect Nokia or Maemo or MeeGo though I suspect13:38
psycho_oreosAppiah, I meant inputting characters like Chinese, Russian, Japanese, etc13:38
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: I thought one like the N950 has one13:38
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, weird13:38
Appiahpsycho_oreos: oh O_o13:38
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, what vkbd? I dunno, it should but like N900 it also has physical keyboard so when shit hits the fan you're not stuck :p13:39
psycho_oreosAppiah, its very easy to break vkbd in N900, installing mscim (yes yes I know, its part of extras-devel, I was forewarned, but I need it!) can easily break vkbd13:39
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: well, the N950 has a vkbd like the N9 when the slider is closed, so I though N900 had one too, I use the phone with a single hand, a lot13:39
jonwilwhats mscim?13:40
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I thought N900 *has* a vkbd. All you need to do is enable it in settings13:40
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: ugh, I had to enable it :/13:40
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, I never tried Indian image to be honest, I'm using global image and you get vkbd when slider is closed (exact same behaviour as N950, except I never seen N950 in proper action :p)13:40
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psycho_oreosjonwil, maemo scim (smart common input method) allows you to input characters from other languages like Russian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Though mscim is made for N900 afaik13:41
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, lol so now you see it?13:42
DocScrutinizerjonwil: will you be around in 1...2h?13:42
Cor-Aihi, im using wvdial to use my n900 as a modem, it works perfektly but after 5-7 minutes of surfing, the n900 reboots, any one got the same trouble? or an idea?13:42
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: yeah, looks like shit13:42
jonwilI will be, why?13:42
hiemanshuhey jonwil13:42
DocScrutinizerjonwil: wanna talk to you, but have to run now, so afk. CYA l8r13:42
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psycho_oreoshiemanshu, hey well that's vkbd when you don't want to use physical keyboard. Also I guess it can act somewhat as a bit of alternative to preventing excessive wear-and-tear on physical keyboard. My old N900 has a few keys chipped (paint peeled off) and the backlight shone through)13:44
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hiemanshupsycho_oreos: hah, my N900 isn't that bad though13:45
psycho_oreoswell now I have aftermarket key pad but am being more cautious than I was13:45
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, though the bottom line is, N9 once vkbd is stuffed and you don't happen to have bluetooth keyboard handy. You're SOL. This was somewhat my huge beef with N9 and prefer N95013:46
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: that shouldn't be a problem seeing that vkbd is the only way to type anything, unless they can implement a perfect text to speech algo13:47
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: but that would be weird doing a 'man unzip' in public :/13:47
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, we're talking of nokia here13:47
vi__hiemanshu: BWAHAHAHAAA!13:47
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hiemanshupsycho_oreos: yes, I used a 5800, N8, and such with non english languages, works fine13:48
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, those two other named products aren't meego :)13:49
psycho_oreosnor are they even closely related to maemo13:49
hiemanshuwell actually its just maemo with meego stuff added to it13:49
hiemanshuit still has debs and such13:49
psycho_oreosbut no what I meant is if nokia remains uncommitted and trying their best to cripple N9, do you think they'll implement speech -> text? I somewhat doubt it13:49
psycho_oreos5800 && N8 == symbian :) nowhere near13:50
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: well they could implement it, and add it free to the W9, and give it as a paid upgrade to the N9?13:50
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psycho_oreosbut yes I do see what you mean, they call it harmattan13:50
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hiemanshupsycho_oreos: thats a nice app idea :P13:51
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, add it free to W9, yup that's a wise choice :) may as well not manufacture N9 and make people say its vapourware instead :p13:51
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: think the way nokia does :P13:51
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hiemanshuthey need a scheme for PROFIT! :P13:51
hiemanshumake N9, ????, un-PROFIT!13:52
psycho_oreosand cripple whatever they hate? :)13:52
hiemanshuarent they already doing that? :P13:52
psycho_oreosthey could have not bothered with N9, that'd be devastating13:53
psycho_oreoswonder who are they really pleasing :p13:53
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Arkenoibut typing in portrait mode with physical keyboard sucks big time13:54
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: the board meeting probably went like 'This is the next Phone' 'But what about the meego phone we promised' 'Meh, take the Sea Ray, remove some buttons, cripple it with aegis, and sell em'13:55
psycho_oreosif you're talking about N900 style, yes, portrait mode sucks somewhat. If you're talking about a regular candy/bar style with what a T9 keyboard, not really13:55
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, At the time they didn't promise a phone iirc they promised a meego device and rumours were speculating it would be a tablet13:56
hiemanshus/phone/device/ then :P13:56
psycho_oreosway off13:57
psycho_oreosalas all this complaining isn't going to get anywhere inside nokia13:57
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: its going to the naughty list :P13:58
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vi__ok, so I stuck a file in /etc/event.d/file13:58
vi__what do I have to do to get it to run?13:58
vi__It is more or less a copy of another file in there13:58
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, naughty list?13:58
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psycho_oreosvi__, most of the files within /etc/event.d directory in mine are 644 (rw-r-r) but some have execute bits, 755 (rwx-rx-rx). You may want to make changes to reflect that14:00
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, that'd be an honour to be landed in naughty list within nokia :p its not like they'll do anything more with meego.. Probably once they are finished with selling N9 they'll probably dust their hands off and pretend the whole maemo/meego thing never really existed14:01
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robbiethe1stIf they exist14:02
robbiethe1stI hope that if they just do wp7, they die14:03
vi__psycho_oreos: the permissions are correct14:04
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vi__This is driving me insane. why the F cant I mount stuff at boot??14:04
psycho_oreosI hope either that or they get the wakeup call that they can still turn this damn hell hole WP7 boat around and start looking at the reality in a different light14:04
psycho_oreosvi__, hmm bugger.. well you've pretty much got stuck up to where I was stuck except I went overboard and screwed up my N900's setup in a different way14:05
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robbiethe1stI don't think WP7 can ever be turned around. Windows 8 for tablets on a phone, maby14:07
robbiethe1stBut otherwise it's just a crude copy of iOS, with all the problems and none of the good sides14:08
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jonwilIf Microsoft wants to make WP7 succesful, the #1 thing they could do to help get more apps is to make it 100% free to develop and test apps for the thing14:08
jonwiland make the fee only apply if you want to put it in the marketplace14:09
jonwilThat will let people who want to dabble but cant justify the $99/yr fee do just that14:09
jonwiland maybe they create something worth spending $99 to publish14:09
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nid0the fee for dabblers is $9, not $9914:10
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jonwilyeah that crap, it should be $014:10
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TimmyT1DocScrutinizer: hey doc14:11
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FIQwindows paying for developing, while Nokia gives out phones for free to (some) devs14:23
FIQthe difference..14:23
FIQmicrosoft forcing you to pay*14:23
markinfoI have just buyed DATA Tarif from my Provider. Where are some settings for DATA connection on n900?14:29
markinfoI have founded it just now.14:30
psycho_oreoslol Nokia handing out free phones was only due to minimise wastage I bet14:32
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hiemanshuvi__: mount stuff at boot via /etc/fstab?14:39
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: free phones? where?14:39
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psycho_oreoshiemanshu, why you asking when you got one? :p14:42
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: I currently own about 3 phones, I haven't paid for any of them14:43
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psycho_oreoshiemanshu, spoilt?14:43
hiemanshuand the 3 doesn't include a dev device like the N95014:44
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, I meant as in being pampered till tickled happy? :p14:45
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hiemanshupsycho_oreos: you can say so :P I have an awesome family and/or friends14:46
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, *sigh*14:46
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: one of them was actually a gift from a client, but I prefer not to name that phone here, because uhmm, I want to live14:47
hiemanshuiPhone :P14:52
* ruskie watches in slow motion as a bolt of lightning slowly ascends from hiemanshu and another bit descends from the clouds to meet in the middle and turn hiemanshu into a smoking pile of ash14:53
psycho_oreostalk about being smited ;)14:53
hiemanshulike I said, I wanted to live :P14:54
robbiethe1stWell, jailbreak it, and hack the shit out of it...14:54
hiemanshurobbiethe1st: done and done14:54
robbiethe1stI'd now put it in the same category as the N950: Useless, until you load one hell of a lot of functionality-repairing apps on it. Like a filemanager, xterm, ssh, a real browser...14:55
* Arkenoi wonders what idiot invented that kind of behavior for "mobile" browser when if mime type is not known it gives up doing anything instead of saving it to internal storage14:56
Arkenoisymbian behaves that way too14:57
robbiethe1stAlso, I have to wonder: who thought capactative touch screens were a good idea?14:57
crashanddiepeople with fingers14:57
robbiethe1stComparing my N900's screen with the N950...14:57
robbiethe1stN900's far more responsive, accurate with my finger, finger tip etc.14:58
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Arkenoiah, the crowd majority calls resistive touchscreens "outdated"14:58
robbiethe1stand I have sweaty hands!14:58
Arkenoiand we cannot do anything to that14:58
crashanddieThen lose the few hundred pounds you shouldn't be sporting, and don't use capacitive screens with sausage fingers.14:58
ruskierobbiethe1st, yeah that's why you get good respons... sweaty hands ;)14:59
robbiethe1stHeh. I'm 130lbs and 6' tall. thin, long fingers14:59
robbiethe1stI know, I *should* be.14:59
robbiethe1stsweat is, after all, lower resistance14:59
hiemanshurobbiethe1st: its a conspiracy14:59
robbiethe1stYea. Or just a "copy apple because they did something that worked"14:59
ruskienever had no issues with the resistive screens15:00
ruskieeven the palm m105 no probs15:00
edheldilis not it due to multitouch?15:01
robbiethe1stThing is, multitouch works fine. Sure. But try to tap small buttons. There's a good reason the iPhone has such large space-wasting buttons!15:01
ruskiebut all the cap screens I had to use I wanted to throw the devices at the wall15:01
Arkenoiso i cannot wear a ring with a claw to use it with n950 like i could do with n90015:02
ruskieor just reshape the nail ;)15:02
hiemanshuArkenoi: those are just gay15:02
* hiemanshu runs15:02
* Arkenoi lols15:02
jonwilThe N900 is the first touchscreen device I have used that I actually like15:03
Arkenoidefinitely not gay!15:03
edheldilI loved my Palm IIIx15:03
hiemanshuArkenoi: rings are just gay15:03
robbiethe1stArkenoi: And you'll never get a N950, sadly.15:03
Arkenoialready have one.15:03
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ErwinJungeArkenoi: pic?15:04
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hiemanshuErwinJunge: of the N950?15:04
ErwinJungeNo, the ring :)15:04
ErwinJungeI know what N950 looks like15:04
crashanddieJaffa, going for one or not?15:04
hiemanshuErwinJunge: hah15:04
crashanddieDocScrutinizer, apparently germany is the first european country to start the firesale... Still not tempted?15:05
hiemanshuI had something like that15:05
ErwinJungeDoesn't look very comfortable15:06
DocScrutinizer51touchpad? broke, no such oppotunity buys15:06
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Arkenoi yep, something like that (just a bit different buth the idea is the same). don't have one with me as i do not wear it anymore after switching to n95015:08
crashanddieYou shouldn't have been wearing that before getting the N950 either.15:08
Arkenoiwell, mine looked slightly better :-)15:09
crashanddieregardless of "how good" it looked.15:09
hiemanshucrashanddie: I had about 8 of those15:09
hiemanshudifferent designs and such15:09
vi__where are mounts/unounts logged?15:09
hiemanshubut then I turned 1815:09
crashanddievi__, syslog15:10
crashanddiehiemanshu, and grew a beard?15:10
hiemanshucrashanddie: nope, not growing a beard :P15:10
hiemanshuas in, wont grow one15:10
* hiemanshu is off15:10
Arkenoicrashanddie, why?15:10
crashanddieI meant as in "have the capacity to grow one"15:10
robbiethe1stSo, is there any problems with taking pictures of the N950(device, not software) and posting them? I didn't /see/ anything in the NDA, but...15:10
crashanddieArkenoi, they're juvenile15:10
Arkenoimost of the time i wear this one:
Jaffacrashanddie: Looks like the UK may be getting a price dip too15:11
Jaffacrashanddie: If so, and the rumoured 89gbp is accurate, would be a lot better than the crappy Android 2.1 tablet from Maplin15:11
Arkenoiand a bag like that: , yes, at work too :-)15:11
crashanddieWearing something like that tells the world "I am so utterly inept at social contact that I isolate myself behind goth and metal. Yes, the white makeup and black lips give me superpowers"15:12
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ruskiecrashanddie, what does metal have to do with inept at social contact?15:13
crashanddieit doesn't.15:14
crashanddiebut wearing those things does.15:14
ruskiedoesn't seem so different from wearing watches, rings, pendants etc...15:14
Arkenoi mirror sunglasses fall into the same category?15:15
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vi__I think it is quite clear what crashhandie is saying...15:18
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nicofsI have an issue registering with seems i don't get the confirmation mail for my's not in the spam folder either. how long does it normally take for the mail to arrive?15:20
vi__nicofs, almost instant15:22
nicofsvi__, hmm.. it's been hours now...15:22
crashanddieX-Fade, ping15:27
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RST38hArkenoi: white suite, hat, and cane with those, please15:29
X-Fadecrashanddie: pong15:30
crashanddieX-Fade, can you have a look at the email confirmation?15:30
crashanddiefor nicofs15:30
X-Fadecrashanddie: No, forum is done by reggie. It is hosted elswhere.15:31
crashanddieAh crap, right15:31
ArkenoiRST38h, that's how i look most part of the summer15:31
crashanddieAnd he's never on IRC...15:31
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RST38hArkenoi: no wonder you have asolutely no friends whatsoever and girls ignore you!15:32
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* RST38h winks, laughs satanically15:32
vi__/etc/event.d/mounts: unable to read: Invalid argument15:36
crashanddieyou have an invalid argument in your /etc/event.d/mounts script15:36
nicofsi'd just try another mail address, but my name is blocked now and i'm kind of attached to it...15:36
vi__mount --bind /this /there15:36
vi__it works normally15:37
vi__cat /etc/event.d/mounts15:37
vi__description "mounting extra directories"15:37
vi__author "paul sleggs"15:37
vi__console output15:37
vi__start on MOUNTS_OK15:37
vi__/bin/mount --bind /home/opt/maps_osm /home/user/MyDocs/.maps15:37
crashanddieplease don't spam the channel15:37
vi__end script15:37
infobotcrashanddie meant: please don't flood the channel15:37
vi__Im sorry, im at my wits end15:38
RST38hvi: pastebin please15:38
thpX-Fade: ping15:38
vi__the above line works when typed into root console15:38
thpX-Fade: i now got a notification that gpodder 2.18-1 (in -testing) is unlocked for promotion, but i can't promote due to a missing dependency15:38
vi__but not when invoked from within event.d/script.15:39
X-Fadethp: Why does it depend on maemo10?15:39
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X-Fadethp: Ah, I see this should be fixable.15:40
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thpi think the dependency on maemo10 is even for some reason (api change / fix in that version) - has been more than a year since this fix, though - and it is in extras15:41
X-Fadethp: Yeah, it got cleaned out somehow.15:42
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dashavooAnybody here got any advice on dealing with insurance people, and any advice on what to say when they offer me an E7 or C7 to replace my N900?15:50
crashanddieinsurance people?15:50
dashavoocrashanddie: after almost 6 months, the insurance people have finally decided my phone is not repairable15:51
dashavoobut, as far as I know, neither of the phones they are offering me are capable of running maemo15:51
dashavoowell... capable might not be the right word, but neither of them do run it15:52
crashanddieBut, you're pretty much SOOL15:52
vi__accept E7, Sell as 'unopened, new' on ebay/amazon.  Buy New N900.15:52
vi__and you will probably have enough change for a six pack of beer.15:53
dashavoovi__: I don't know whether they would send me a new one or a refurbished one15:53
crashanddieIt has to be new15:53
crashanddieThey're obliged to send a new one.15:53
vi__dashavoo: what country?15:53
dashavoovi__: UK15:53
vi__dashavoo: BINGO!15:53
crashanddieAlso, you may want to ask for a N950 or something15:53
vi__under uk+EU law you are entitled to refund, replacement or replacement of equal value.15:54
vi__they dont do refunds.15:54
dashavoocrashanddie: pretty sure N950 isn't something they keep in stock15:54
crashanddieIt's worth a try15:54
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RST38h"If HP spins off their PC business....maybe they will call it Compaq?" (C)Michael Dell15:55
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vi__dashavoo: You will not get a N950.  There was a guy on here who threatened them with legal action, quoting the 'sale of goods act, uk'.15:55
vi__They magically found him a new one.15:55
crashanddieyeah, that's bollocks15:55
crashanddieNokia don't give a fuck about legal action15:56
crashanddiethey know that what they're doing is 100% legal15:56
vi__well either way, he got a new one and under EU law they have to fix it.15:56
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tank-mandoesn't that uk law between the consumer and the retailer, not the manufacturer15:56
crashanddieThreaten them with legal action, and the only thing you'll achieve is you'll look like a dick.15:57
jacekowskivi__: sales of goods act say that if it's not feasible to fix it they may just give him a refund15:57
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jacekowskivi__: people that think sales of goods act is a magic bullet for everything are idiots15:57
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jacekowskiand value is but fuzzy15:58
jacekowskibecause they may use ebay value15:58
* RST38h suggestes threatening suicide15:58
jacekowskiand N8 is slightly more expensive than n90015:58
RST38hIt is way more cute than a legal action and has better chances of making them think twice before telling you to fuck yourself15:59
dashavooRST38h: hehe, that second point might be true, but I don't thnk it would get me very far15:59
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X-Fadethp: Try now?16:00
Venemo_N950hey guys16:05
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vi__I still cannot get this to mount at boot16:12
vi__I am now begging.  Please help me.  I have been at this for 5 hours.16:13
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crashanddieYes, because just stating you're doing something helps finding the error16:13
crashanddieNow, wtf are you trying to achieve, exactly?16:13
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vi__At boot, I would like to bind mount a directory within the filesystem.16:14
vi__I want to mount /home/opt/maps_osm at /home/user/MyDocs/.maps16:14
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thpX-Fade: seems to work now - thanks a lot! :)16:15
SpeedEviljacekowski: They may be idiots - however they only need to convince a magistrate in their local court, and nokia are unlikely to bother sending legal representation to a small claims case.16:15
vi__I cannot use fstab because it is not used in maemo.16:15
vi__So I have created an event.d script.16:15
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SpeedEvilfstab is used in maemo16:16
SpeedEvilIt's just autocreated16:16
vi__ruskie said it is not used.16:16
ShadowJKit's autocreated after the fact isn't it?16:16
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SpeedEvilIt's used - it may not be used as you like16:16
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vi__I added a line to rcS-late that adds my mount instructions to fstab AFTER it is autocreated.16:17
vi__The directory does not get mounted.16:17
SpeedEvilAlternative is to hack the autocreate script, or to do it the cheesy way.16:17
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SpeedEvilWhich is to do it from userspace in a script called from queen-beecon on desktop create16:18
vi__however if I type 'mount -a' or 'mount /home/opt/maps_osm' it WILL mount.16:18
SpeedEvilyeah - fstab is used.16:18
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SpeedEvilBut nothing calls mount -a16:18
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vi__The point is I have now tried 3 different methods, they all execute but the mount command does not work.16:19
vi__It just outright does not work16:19
SpeedEvilyou said 'mount -a' will mount16:19
vi__SpeedEvil: after I have added the appropriate line to fstab, yes16:20
SpeedEvilSo what do you mean by 'mount command does not work16:20
DocScrutinizervi__: probably it runs too early, or in an inappropriate environment16:20
vi__I can mount the directory from the CLI after boot by hand.  As root.16:20
DocScrutinizerI said this some hours ago actually16:21
vi__I can do it as an event.d script, from fstab with mount and outright mount --bind /this /there16:21
SpeedEvilWhen doesn't it work?16:21
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vi__SpeedEvil: It doesnt work when I try to make it happen during boot up.  Neither through fstab, event.d or script16:22
DocScrutinizerfstab is NOT used in boot16:22
vi__DocScrutinizer: what EXACTLY do you mean?16:22
vi__DocScrutinizer> fstab is NOT used in boot16:23
vi__< SpeedEvil> yeah - fstab is used.16:23
SpeedEvilVarious scripts do mount /home16:23
SpeedEvilthey don't do mount /dev/whatever /home16:23
SpeedEvilBut nothing explicitly calls mount -a - so any filesystems you add to fstab by whatever means do not get mounted16:23
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DocScrutinizerand before those scripts mount /home you can't bindmount sth to home16:24
SpeedEvilIt's been a while since I looked at it.16:24
SpeedEvilvi__: What are you actually wanting to mount where.16:24
DocScrutinizerMyDocs/.maps to /opt/maps16:24
vi__ At boot, I would like to bind mount a directory within the16:25
vi__              filesystem.16:25
vi__ At boot, I would like to bind mount a directory within the16:25
vi__              filesystem.16:25
vi__gh At boot, I would like to bind mount a directory within the16:25
vi__              filesystem.16:25
vi__I want to mount /home/opt/maps_osm at /home/user/MyDocs/.maps16:25
crashanddiejust create a fucking symlink16:25
vi__keyboard is spazzing out. sorry.16:25
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: VFAT16:26
vi__well if you know how tio make a symlink on a fat32 partition let me know.16:26
jonwilDocScrutinizer: you wanted to talk to me earlier?16:27
vi__then where can I put a script that will get executed as root, on boot from userspace?16:28
SpeedEvilvi__: call it from queen beecon16:29
SpeedEvilvi__: Set to execute on startup. Add to sudoers16:29
vi__SpeedEvil: That would be the ugliest, most vomified hack ever.16:29
crashanddieWhat if you removed the rm from the rcS script?16:29
crashanddieso that your fstab remains stable?16:29
SpeedEvilvi__: It works though.16:29
vi__crashanddie: my fstab is stable.16:29
crashanddieAnother question, why do you need this mount?16:30
vi__to move the default maps folder from a vfat partition to a ext3 partition in order that it does not waste upto 1/2 more space due to retarded vfat file size16:31
crashanddieso you actually want your maps to be stored on the 128MB root?16:31
vi__no, my 16GB /opt partition16:32
crashanddieHow is that one mounted?16:33
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vi__it is mounted by rcS-late somehow...I think.16:34
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vi__is my fstab16:36
vi__is my event.d mount script16:36
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vi__running the command in the mount script works from xterm16:37
DocScrutinizerjonwil: yeah16:37
vi__but it does not work from within this script16:37
vi__no error is reported in syslog.16:37
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jonwilwhat did you want to talk about?16:38
DocScrutinizervi__: after even end of /etc/event.d/rcS-late there's still no MyDocs mounted, so you're out of luck with adding your bindmount there16:38
vi__DocScrutinizer: I havn't tried to mount within rcS-late16:39
DocScrutinizervi__: also be aware a bindmount of sth into MyDocs would probably mass storage mode fail as that wants to umount MyDocs. That'S also the reason MyDocs isn't force-mounted in init16:39
crashanddiedo you have /usr/lib/genfstab.awk?16:40
DocScrutinizervi__: you'd probably find out about ke-recv and how it handles mounting/umounting of MyDocs, and add your bindmount there16:40
vi__DocScrutinizer: already on it.16:41
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I thought you might be interested in patching NOLO16:41
jonwilpatching NOLO on what device and for what reason?16:42
DocScrutinizeron N900, for the purpose of setting boot threshold voltage for battery higher, so the system stays longer in precharge before NOLO bots up linux16:42
jonwilI wouldn't know how to do that16:43
jonwilespecially since NOLO isn't a normal ELF exe thats easy to reverse engineer16:43
jonwilin the way say libsms is16:43
DocScrutinizerRE NOLO, find the code that compares a ADC-readout of bat voltage to a hardcoded threshold value, change that hardcoded value16:44
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jacekowskijonwil: it is easy to reverse engineer16:44
jacekowskiyou can treat it like staticaly linked ELF16:44
jonwilalso I dont really have the time to work on reverse engineering stuff right now16:44
DocScrutinizeroh, ok16:44
jonwilI am busy with other (non-N900) projects16:45
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i'm thinking abut buying n90016:45
jacekowskiso i may do some more stuff16:45
jonwilAlthough I am thinking about hacking that @#$^%$@# duck shoot game to make it easier to play :P16:45
jacekowskijonwil: are you talking about old game with that light gun?16:45
jonwilno, I mean the duck shoot game on the n90016:46
jonwilwhatever its called16:46
jonwilthe one in the repoas16:46
jonwilI play it when I am waiting for bus etc16:46
jonwiland its annoying me no end :P16:46
jonwilright now though I gotta watch as 4800 or so files (of various sizes totaling about 1.5GiB) pull down over FTP so I can then debug this problem with the code I am working on :(16:47
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* jonwil wishes he could find some decent games for his N90016:56
jonwilToo many of them are unsuited to the mobile device (openttd for example is totally useless on a N900)16:57
psycho_oreoswhat about angry birds? ;)16:58
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javispedrohey. openttd works for me.16:59
javispedroit is unsuited to stylus-less devices.16:59
jonwilthe problem with openttd is that its the sort of thing that you need to play in long sessions16:59
jonwilso its not good for when you just have 5 minutes waiting for a bus or something16:59
jonwilor even 20 minutes riding on that bus16:59
javispedrothat's when I'm usually more hungry for entertainment16:59
javispedro(30 minutes bus rides, etc.)16:59
jonwilI play the duck shoot game, geweled and a few others17:00
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jonwilI still cant beat the chess AI in the stock chess app though17:00
jonwilMaybe that's because I suck at chess, not because of anything in that particular AI :P17:00
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jonwilwouldn't mind a good Backgammon game with a nice AI for the N900 though :P17:01
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fizzieI'm tempted to suggest playing Black Belt Sorvi Hero. (But it's not very much fun, really.)17:05
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jonwilI like puzzle games and games that require you to use your head17:06
fizzieNetHack, then; it runs reasonably, even if the keyboard isn't exactly the most comfortable thing to play with.17:07
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SpeedEvilI've done that with the keyboard. It's awkward.17:07
SpeedEvilEven after learning vikeys17:08
jonwilplayed more than enough nethack in my life thankyou :P17:08
SpeedEvilI did play a game down to I think it was level 9, before getting stomped by a nasty bones.17:08
fizzieWell, uh... robotfindskitten? (That seems to be the total sum of games I have installed here.)17:08
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fizzieThere's also that sgtatham's "portable puzzle collection" thing, though it's not very polishedly "mobile".17:10
SpeedEvilI find blocks annoyingly addictive at times.17:10
jonwilI find the N900 tetris clone to not be as good as other tetris clones I have played17:12
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jonwilsuch as the one on my previous phone :P17:13
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SpeedEviljon: I filed two bugs against it. :)17:18
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SpeedEvilIt has poor collision detection - you can move blocks quickly past slight obstructions17:19
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fluxsomeone should write a tetris metapack. collect all tetris clones around, and make switching between them easy.17:24
fluxpreferably without changing game state :)17:24
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vi__I don't wanna get too excited17:25
vi__but I think I have cracked it.  Just wanna say thanks for the tolerance.17:25
vi__I edited the /usr/bin/osso-mount-mmc.sh17:26
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vi__It now includes a line wrt to mounting my stuff.  It survives reboots and USB pluggings.17:27
fluxbut, when pr1.4 comes, it'll break down ;(17:27
vi__flux BWAHAHAHA17:27
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jonwilI intend to keep using my N900 until it fails in a way that cant be fixed17:29
jonwilmostly because any other GOOD phone costs $$$$$ in Australia17:30
jonwilunless I join crappy contract which I dont want to do17:30
jonwilplus there is no phone available that is as good as a N90017:31
flux"granpa, why does your phone need to be charged 5 times a day?"17:31
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javispedrohey, there are replacement batteries around for the n90017:32
javispedrounlike the N9..17:32
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fluxin a few years they won't have them for n900 either ;)17:33
javispedrothey are nokia standard batteries17:33
javispedrothey are surely going to be around for 5 years at least17:33
javispedrounless doomsday happens17:33
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javispedroso the nokia developer site has been cracked, and all the n950club password hashes have been released...17:41
javispedro(among others)17:41
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nicofsI'm trying to do "sudo -s" in console inside "easy Ubuntu", but all i get is "sudo: must be setuid root" - what can I do?17:42
SpeedEviljavispedro: Err - what?17:42
SpeedEviljavispedro: Really?17:42
jonwilIf more web sites took security seriously, news like this wouldn't be so frequent17:44
jonwilBut web sites dont do enough for security17:44
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fluxsecurity should be automatic in the tools.17:45
SpeedEvilAlso if users diddn't share passwords17:45
jonwilyeah, I recon Microsoft and Oracle and IBM and the other makers of web development platforms and databases should add APIs and features so that security is dead simple17:45
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jonwilso for example, query stuff for databases would be designed so that being secure is the easy way17:46
jonwiland being insecure (SQL injections etc) is the hard way17:46
fluxI imagine making non-secure sql queries in Java requires some effort17:46
fluxwell, maybe not, if you come from php :P17:47
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jonwilIts amazing how many database developers dont know about SQL injection and how to avoid it (or just dont care)17:47
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DocScrutinizermehehe Skype zero day HTML/(Javascript) code injection17:50
jonwilnot a huge fan of Skype, mostly because they are yet another company that invented their own secret cryptography instead of using something off-the-shelf and well tested17:51
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jonwillike AES17:51
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DocScrutinizerand then protect it by obscurity17:52
DocScrutinizerand fail epically on even implementing a simple linux audio interface the right way17:53
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jpinx-awayruskie: and DocScrutinizer fwiw - it is not possible to get the n900 running without a screen after a battery out. It needs locales, time etc and I can find no way to do that or bypass it on the kbd17:58
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nicofsI'm trying to do "sudo -s" in console inside "easy Ubuntu", but all i get is "sudo: must be setuid root" - what can I do?18:03
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javispedronicofs: are you sure you are inside ubuntu?18:10
nicofsjavispedro, well, it looks like ubuntu and the terminal is xterm inside what looks like ubuntu...18:11
javispedrook, then run "stat /usr/bin/sudo"18:11
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javispedrothere will be a line like18:12
javispedroAccess: (4111/---s--x--x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)18:12
javispedropaste the three numbers here (in the line above they would be 4111, 0, and 0)18:13
nicofsit's 6755 and 1000 100018:13
* javispedro tries to guess how that could happen18:13
nicofsask qole, he provided the fs that way...18:13
javispedroyeah, ask qole is what you should do.18:14
javispedrorefer him to the above conversation18:14
nicofsbut shouldn't chmod and chown solve the issue?18:14
javispedroyes, but you'll need to do them as root outside the chroot.18:14
javispedroand I don't remember where is it mounted.18:14
nicofsmount fs on my pc?18:15
javispedrogo ahead18:15
nicofs"mount file /place -o loop" or something like that...18:15
javispedroI'd ask qole though, maybe he has good reason.18:16
nicofsi do have quite a few backups... and today i feel lucky^^18:16
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nusse_boot with init=/bin/sh and fix it18:19
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RST38hmoooo, javispedro18:19
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nicofshow can i change GID from 1000 to 0?18:20
MohammadAGGAN900, ping18:20
javispedronicofs: chown root:root18:21
javispedronicofs: chown root:root <file>18:21
jacekowskinicofs: gid of what?18:21
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jacekowskinicofs: file or user18:21
javispedroread a bit of backlog and you'll see his goal18:21
nicofsisn't it better to use numeric parameters...?18:22
nusse_otherswise set a rootpw and use su18:22
nicofsnusse_, if only that worked...18:23
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javispedronicofs: you can use root:root just fine18:23
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nicofsyes... i just realized that GID is group... just a few seconds too slow18:25
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nicofsanyway - problem persists18:25
nicofsstat now returns 0111 and 0 018:26
nicofsso the "4" that used to be there disappeared - could that have been caused by chown root:root?18:26
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nicofsmoved on to the next error...18:31
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nicofsnow /etc/sudoers has wrong permissions18:33
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* javispedro sighs and ponders you ask qole18:34
javispedromaybe you installed to vfat18:34
javispedroah no, setuid bit was there though.18:34
nicofsnot that i installed much - i downloaded the fs image...18:35
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DocScrutinizernicofs: chmod u+s <file>18:45
DocScrutinizer"sudo: must be setuid root"18:46
javispedronah, keep reading backlog ;)18:46
DocScrutinizerhow far? til january?18:46
javispedrono no, after that.18:47
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nicofsshould /etc/sudoers be 0440?18:48
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DocScrutinizerand obviously also root:root18:50
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nicofsit works...18:51
nicofssudo -s and no complaints18:52
nicofsnow i can go about solving the issue that made me need sudo...^^18:52
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psycho_oreosShapeshifter, ping19:25
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GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, Jaffa, sorry, slept in today.19:37
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hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: die mate die!19:39
hiemanshuyou are so late :(19:39
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nicofserm... now i arrived at ".Xauthority : no such file..." what can I do...?19:43
merlin1991MohammadAG: why aren't you on #maemo-ssu ?19:44
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ebobany Mfe lovers arround ? :]20:08
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obcecadoebob: i currently use it20:09
ebobah great20:09
obcecadomail for exchange20:09
ebobdid you had trouble with it ?20:09
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ebobyes mail for exchange :p20:10
obcecadonope, it has always worked perfectly20:10
ebobhmm weird20:10
obcecadoso far, so good20:10
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ebobwhen u created ur account20:10
ebobit asked email/user/pass/domain ?20:10
ebobnothing else like owa url ?20:10
obcecadolet me check that20:10
ebobyes , hoping it wont fuck with ur settings :p20:11
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obcecadothat'd be my problem :-)20:11
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obcecadook, i got the owa hostname, port, and below username, passwod and domain20:12
obcecadoit just works20:12
ebobport ?20:12
ebobcan u check if u have a /apps ?20:13
ebobin your filesystem ?20:13
merlin1991ebob: I'm using it too20:13
ebobwhen in parameters i start MFe, it ask me: adress mail20:13
ebobthats all at first20:14
merlin1991yeah "server" is on the 2nd configuration dialog20:14
ebobso thats why, i'm stuck on the first screen20:14
ebobcant access further20:14
ebobsomething might be wrong20:14
nicofsHow can I generate a new .Xauthority file?20:15
ebobmaybe the certificate20:17
ebobthanks for helps :)20:17
ebobis your server owa 2003/2007 or 2010 ?20:18
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* javispedro sighs at "has been developing Android; the first complete, open, and free mobile platform based on the Linux kernel" quote right in a Linux Foundation page.21:15
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AVeeebob: MfE checks for exchange autodiscovery on the domain. It that is setup properly it doesn't need to ask the user about servers, urls etc.21:24
AVeeThats why those are not in the first dialog.21:24
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DocScrutinizerre indicator LED weird sun dependency: this morning the device blinked normal, then wehn I walked out where temperature was ~30°C and device was in a black holster on my belt and exposed to sun, the indicator was invisibly dim when I took device out (previously I did some photos indoor, but alas I didn't check indicator light then). Back home LED was back to normal after a while21:27
DocScrutinizerindications direction temperature related issue condense21:28
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Siceloabout h-e-n, can i rely on value for MaxPower that i get from running 'lsusb -v' when usb device connecteed to linux pc?21:34
Dibblah(Sometimes manufacturers just Make Stuff Up)21:35
SpeedEvilIt is never actually measured.21:36
Siceloaiui, N900 can supply up to 200mA when used as host.. so i'd like some way to be sure i don't connect something that will exceed that21:36
DocScrutinizeryes, 20021:36
trxwont the n900 disable power supply if more current is drawn?21:38
javispedrocrashanddie: has it :)21:38
Sicelowas just wanting to ask that.. or some kind of protective mechanism21:38
trxi believe there is.. but this is the field of DocScrutinizer :)21:39
DocScrutinizerthere will just a nice warning notifier on overload when you use the booston version of
SpeedEvilThe chip has an overeating protection21:39
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DocScrutinizertrx: yes there is21:39
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: also dedicated overcurrent protection21:40
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DocScrutinizermy script in handles all the chip can tell, and will nicely display. Anyway overload is no hazard21:41
DocScrutinizerbasically it just stops hostmode, and you21:41
DocScrutinizer'd have to start from scratch again21:41
Sicelonice. thanks :)21:42
DocScrutinizerthanks for using it, please give feedback21:42
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Sicelo100% making me happy ;)21:42
Sicelosometimes takes a while to apply the 5V to the device.. but i don't mind that too much21:43
ruskie <-- hmm for such a price I'd get one21:44
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SpeedEvilThey had some, they sold out21:45
hiemanshudamn, I wish I knew someone in france21:45
SpeedEvilhiemanshu: Why?21:45
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: to get the touchpad :P21:46
javispedrohiemanshu: the 16GiB is out of stock21:46
javispedroin like 5 minutes21:46
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hiemanshujavispedro: I dont mind the 3221:46
hiemanshubut I dont know who to ship it to :(21:46
javispedrobut it'll be in 3 min.21:46
javispedrocrashanddie, but he's just at this moment away and he'll miss the sale =)21:46
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SpeedEvilThe 32 is also out of stock in dixons21:46
SpeedEvilclick buy and it's not there21:46
Atariiit's out of stock everywhere :(21:47
Atariiit dropped in price at 6PM and sold out instantly21:47
ruskieI've read some reports where people actually lost it from their carts21:47
Atariisomeone I know had that happen21:48
Atariion the payment page21:48
javispedrostill on stock the 32GiB =)21:51
hiemanshubut, who will ship it out :(21:51
SpeedEviljavispedro: It doesn't work - click 'buy' and it says out of stock21:52
ruskieto bad I don't have any funds available21:52
javispedroSpeedEvil: fnac.fr21:52
ruskieelse I'd go for it21:52
javispedroSpeedEvil: it was made available like 30 minutes ago21:52
javispedro16GiB ran out in like 10 minutes21:52
AtariiSorry, this product is currently not available.21:52
ruskiethe touchpad hasn't even come here21:52
hiemanshuruskie: where?21:53
hiemanshuits never gonna come to india21:53
hiemanshuthats for sure21:53
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SpeedEvilPrice on fnac is showing as 568 for me21:55
SpeedEvilfor 3221:55
hiemanshuthat means sold out21:55
hiemanshutoo :(21:55
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ruskieohh fun21:55
SpeedEvilI may be slow, but I can spot a pattern.21:55
hiemanshuI could have paid for it and such21:56
hiemanshuif I had a address to send it to :(21:56
* SpeedEvil wonders about stores in .nl21:56
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SpeedEvilAs 18:00 localtime is about to roll around21:57
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: if you can find one, order one for me too, please21:57
hiemanshuits just sad that when I can find it in stock, no one to contact to whom I can ship it to, and then when its out of stock, everyone is like, you can ship it to me :(21:58
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ruskieSpeedEvil, erm... is .nl on some different timezone? other than the rest of EU?21:59
SpeedEvilOr maybe the timezone page I looked at was confused21:59
SpeedEvilOn reflection, that is unlikely to be so.21:59
ruskieconsidering it's 2100 here and we're in CEST atm22:00
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DocScrutinizerI guess netherlands still has some colonies in the Caribbean22:03
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hiemanshuin stock22:04
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I guess you could ship from anywhere in EU to anywhere22:05
DocScrutinizerI'm in EU22:05
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SpeedEvilhiemanshu: 'Availabiltiy' call22:05
javispedrohiemanshu: it's been that way for quite a while, I doubt they are updating it22:05
hiemanshuoh :(22:06
javispedrobut if they ship to you...22:06
DocScrutinizerthough my addr is a bit of a weird choice, as I'm actually not planning to get one myself22:07
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro is also in EU afaik22:07
javispedroI'm in .ES but also having a hard time finding anyone shipping here22:07
javispedronot even fnac.fr22:07
DocScrutinizerdang, they HAVE TO ship to EU22:08
chouchouneSpeedEvil: Fnac where ?22:08
chouchouneI see it at 99 euros in france (Fnac)22:08
javispedroalready out of stock there22:08
javispedroeven the 32GiB one now22:08
hiemanshuno one has one :(22:08
SpeedEvilchouchoune: It showed as high price when I clicked22:08
chouchounemmmhhh ? I've seen it 10 minutes ago22:08
DocScrutinizerI wonder what's that weird hype - why does HP do this?22:09
javispedroDocScrutinizer: they're closing shop22:09
SpeedEvilThey may assume that they have too many to sell at any price over $9922:09
DocScrutinizersure, but why does that mean they have to throw hardware at you for free?22:10
javispedroit's a good question22:10
hiemanshugerman hp has it, it seems22:10
chouchounemmmhhh javispedro SpeedEvil I still see some at 99 euros22:10
javispedrochouchoune: where22:10
SpeedEvilMaybe it's doing wierd geoip thingies.22:10
chouchounethe main price is 45122:11
SpeedEvilShows as 451 on that page here22:11
javispedroSous réserve de disponibilité, expédié sous 4 à 12 jours22:11
chouchounebut after, it says 2 produits neufs à partir de 99 ¤22:11
chouchouneah, ok22:11
chouchouneI have one in my basket at <99 euros ;)22:12
javispedromy little french translates that as "awaiting availability, will ship in 4 to 12 days".22:12
javispedrochouchoune: I have the 32GiB one on my basket22:12
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hiemanshuchouchoune: Subject to availability dispatched within 4 to 12 days22:12
* DocScrutinizer needs a cheap new radeon X300SE22:12
hiemanshuI have both 16 and 32 in basket22:12
chouchouneI thonk it's available because now it's saying it's not available anymoire22:12
chouchouneah, no22:13
javispedroI think that your only hope is to find a retailer to ships outside his home country with the old price, and start hitting F5 on their home page.22:13
chouchouneI don't think I will buy one, so I don't care that much ...22:14
hiemanshuor wait for all the people that bought one to say 'This is a pile of crap, I bought it a week ago'22:14
DocScrutinizerafaik in EU you're obliged to ship EU wide22:14
hiemanshuand then sell em on ebay and such22:14
chouchouneDocScrutinizer: wrong22:14
chouchouneI could have bought a WeTab  if it was like that ;)22:14
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DocScrutinizerhmm maybe that was about no toll etc22:15
DocScrutinizerexcept for VAT22:15
chouchouneid it ships EU wise, there is no fees22:15
chouchounebut it's not forced to sell EU wise22:16
chouchounethat would be grat, I could easyly buy a N9 if foreign shops sell it EU wise22:16
javispedrohiemanshu: they'll get android. as said, it is trivial. so when android runs demand will explode.22:17
javispedrotherefore my only hope is the total incompetence of the android folks ;)22:17
hiemanshujavispedro: I would help port meego to it, it would have been an awesome device with a dual core arm processor, and loads of ram and such22:17
javispedroyesterday they hadn't even found the kernel source, but I think more competent people are joining, so time is running out ;)22:18
chouchounewhere is that ?22:18
* javispedro decides to go walk for a while22:18
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vi__there appears to be none available in the UK22:19
vi__UNless these rumours of the sale starting on tuesday midnight are true.22:20
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hiemanshuif anyone gets one order one for me, if multiple people order one for me, I'll buy em all :D22:21
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hiemanshuvi__: do it fast23:02
vi__hiemanshu: dude, they have none in stock23:04
vi__just try some uk postcodes23:04
vi__NONE in edinburgh23:04
vi__NONE in glasgow23:04
hiemanshuthey are out too :(23:04
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vi__NONE in london23:04
vi__I checked that link an hour ago23:05
vi__apparently the sale starts on tuesday morning23:05
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vi__so perhaps there wont be any stock till tuesday morning23:05
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hiemanshuvi__: comet seems to have some23:14
vi__web site is down23:15
hiemanshuworks for me23:15
hiemanshubut very slow23:15
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hiemanshuanyways, I am off for the night23:16
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hiemanshuvi__: pm?23:25
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vi__tuesday AM23:26
hiemanshuI meant Personal Message :P23:27
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hiemanshuso there might be a chance, afterall23:33
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vi__before you ask your question, consider the cow23:44
vi__a leg, if you will, in each corner23:44
dashavooinsurance company said they'll give me 300gbp for my N900 being unrepairable. I accepted.23:44
dashavooI am so sad to be N900-less23:44
vi__dashavoo: better than a kick in the balls23:45
vi__300 is way more than enough to buy a BRAND NEW N900 AND have enough change for an 8-pack of special brew.23:46
SpeedEvildashavoo: Get thee to ebay. :)23:46
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SpeedEvilOr an n900 and a touchpad.23:46
SpeedEvilIf you can find one.23:46
vi__lols, all the touchpads are gone bro.23:46
vi__ironically, HP now have complete market penetration.23:47
vi__all the touchpad needs was a little linux tuning23:47
vi__lower the swap here23:47
vi__kill a few services there23:47
dashavooI think I will leave myself N900-less for a while, as painful as it is. As much as I hate to admit it, I need the £300 for other things23:48
vi__dashavoo: the N900 council will not forget this treachary easily.23:49
dashavoovi__: =(23:50
dashavooI loved my N900, but flights are expensive, and rent is... well... it might be expensive, I need to find a new flat first.23:51
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