IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-06-26

DocScrutinizermd5sum /usr/lib/; osso-product-info -q OSSO_VERSION00:00
DocScrutinizerpaste result please, if not *9717 *MR000:01
DocScrutinizerpaste result please, if not *9717ae *MR000:02
dm8tbrboth my devices are like that00:02
nox-yep have those00:02
*** LiraNuna has quit IRC00:02
DocScrutinizernobody with US version around?00:03
dm8tbrone is SWE/FIN the other is EN US. according to the full osso-product-info output00:03
dm8tbrmy kbd is US, but that's it00:03
*** user0 has joined #maemo00:05
*** wam has joined #maemo00:05
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC00:06
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo00:07
*** Metallikettu has quit IRC00:08
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo00:13
*** user0 has quit IRC00:15
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC00:16
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo00:17
*** rd has joined #maemo00:17
*** Smily has quit IRC00:17
*** javispedro has joined #maemo00:24
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC00:25
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo00:26
*** soltys has quit IRC00:29
*** muelli has quit IRC00:30
*** MoonTiger has joined #maemo00:33
*** vi__ has joined #maemo00:34
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC00:35
* vi__ moo00:35
vi__you know what is lacking on maemo5?00:35
vi__cowsay and gnu fortune.00:35
*** C-S-B has quit IRC00:36
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo00:36
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo00:36
*** soltys has joined #maemo00:36
*** hurbu has quit IRC00:37
* javispedro sighs00:41
*** DrGrov has joined #maemo00:41
vi__javispedro: at the lack of cowsay00:41
javispedroif you thought h-d's logic was incomprehensible, wait and see mcompositor's00:41
javispedrothe number of variables has exploded00:41
javispedroas it now even reads wheter the phone is on an outgoing or incoming call00:42
*** MoonTiger has quit IRC00:42
DocScrutinizervi__: you got no international version, right?00:44
*** muelli has joined #maemo00:44
DocScrutinizermd5sum /usr/lib/; osso-product-info -q OSSO_VERSION00:44
DocScrutinizerpaste result please, if not *9717 *MR000:44
DocScrutinizerdamn, again00:44
DocScrutinizerpaste result please, if not *9717ae *MR000:45
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC00:45
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo00:46
*** vi__ has quit IRC00:46
SpeedEvil DocScrutinizer: same00:48
DocScrutinizerGB or INTERNATIONAL?00:48
* DocScrutinizer starts to doubt OSSO_VERSION00:49
SpeedEvilI don't think there is a 1.3 UK00:49
*** thuttu77 has quit IRC00:50
*** GNUtoo has quit IRC00:50
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you got any idea which version jonwil is using, and particularly what version of his patch was against?00:51
merlin1991anyone here got a pointer on how to handel files that start an application over mime association on the application side?00:52
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC00:55
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo00:55
*** Venemo is now known as Venemo_00:56
*** Venemo_ has quit IRC00:56
javispedromerlin1991: elaborate =)00:58
javispedrothough my magic 8-ball says the keyword you should be googling for is hildon mime00:58
merlin1991I'll try the 8balls advice00:59
*** thuttu77 has joined #maemo00:59
merlin1991but I don't think I'll get much further than with my earlier tries :D00:59
*** wam has quit IRC00:59
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC01:01
MohammadAGjavispedro, basically, what he wants is to find the mime type of a file01:03
MohammadAGor the first part of it, the one that says music/ or video/01:03
*** DrGrov has left #maemo01:03
*** Atarii` has joined #maemo01:04
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC01:04
*** Atarii has quit IRC01:05
*** dymaxionhk has quit IRC01:05
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo01:06
merlin1991MohammadAG: I can speak for myself :D01:06
MohammadAGjust helping out merlin1991 :P01:06
MohammadAGjavispedro, can you help with linking?01:06
MohammadAGif .so files are there, why is the linker failing to the find the lib?01:07
javispedro"strace -e trace=open" the linker and you'll find where is it searching for them01:07
*** larsivi has quit IRC01:08
*** dymaxionhk has joined #maemo01:08
MohammadAGpoint is, how does it look for them? the .pc file is there01:08
javispedro(dunno if gtk has an equivalent, but hildon uses that)01:09
javispedroMohammadAG: it looks for them on a set of default system paths (/usr/lib, /usr/lib/gcc/...) plus wherever you tell it to find it them via -L01:10
*** Spydemon_ has quit IRC01:10
javispedropkg-config is just a layer that is on top of all of this01:10
javispedro(pkg-config = .pc files)01:10
*** Atarii` has quit IRC01:11
MohammadAGjavispedro, /usr/lib/* exists, but it fails to find it01:11
javispedrolinker cmd line?01:11
MohammadAGQt has no equivalent of gnome-vfs-mime01:11
javispedroit should have something about mime01:11
javispedroor maybe kde has it01:11
MohammadAGg++ -shared -Wl,-soname, -o qfacebook.o graphapi.o qfacebookreply.o moc_qfacebookreply.o  -L/usr/lib -lqjson -lQtNetwork -lQtCore -lpthread01:12
MohammadAG/scratchbox/compilers/cs2009q3-eglibc2.10-i486/bin/../lib/gcc/i486-pc-linux-gnu/4.4.1/../../../../i486-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lqjson01:12
javispedronote that "" must exist01:13
javispedronot .so.*01:13
javispedros/not/not only01:13
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo01:13
MohammadAGerr, weird, why doesn't it create that01:14
*** tackat has quit IRC01:14
javispedrorun ldconfig01:14
javispedroand install -dev package if existing01:14
MohammadAGcreated the symlink myself, but why doesn't qjson's source make that01:14
MohammadAGjavispedro, clone from git repo01:14
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC01:15
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo01:16
*** foolish91 has left #maemo01:17
*** zap has quit IRC01:17
*** Atarii has joined #maemo01:18
* MohammadAG runs sociality in Harmattan SDK01:18
HurrianMohammadAG , how's the lockscreen going?01:18
MohammadAGI wonder how bad it'll look, without stacked windows01:18
MohammadAGHurrian, spent my time installing the Harmattan SDK01:18
javispedroMohammadAG: mcompositor does have something about stacked windows too01:18
Hurrianah, k01:18
MohammadAGjavispedro, yes, but I'm not sure if there's a way to do them in Qt01:19
javispedroit's an atom as usual01:19
MohammadAGI know about MTF01:19
MohammadAGhmm, segfault01:20
*** rd has quit IRC01:21
*** Spydemon_ has joined #maemo01:22
*** per has quit IRC01:23
javispedroMohammadAG: time to curse all while opening gdb01:24
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC01:25
MohammadAGjavispedro, not sure how I can gdb + meego-run at the same time01:25
*** beford has joined #maemo01:26
javispedromeego-run gdb ./app01:26
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo01:26
*** lbt has joined #maemo01:27
MohammadAG0xf424431f in AbstractSensorChannelInterface::call(QDBus::CallMode, QString const&, QVariant const&, QVariant const&, QVariant const&, QVariant const&, QVariant const&, QVariant const&, QVariant const&, QVariant const&) ()01:28
MohammadAG   from /usr/lib/
MohammadAGthe fuck01:29
javispedroI do not even want to know =)01:29
MohammadAGI don't even use sensors in the app01:29
merlin1991javispedro: I owe you a beer, works like a charm :)01:29
MohammadAGmerlin1991, seriously? all I got was NULL :S01:29
merlin1991using a slightly different method than you01:30
merlin1991returns nice char* like "audio/mpeg"01:30
MohammadAGI used gnome_vfs_get_mime or something01:30
MohammadAGoh well, nice to see it's working01:30
javispedrowhat the hell01:31
javispedrothe UI boots in HARMATTAN_ARMEL01:31
javispedrofor a moment I even forgot I was in armel01:31
merlin1991gnome_vfs_get_mime_type_for_name did the trick01:31
MohammadAGnow strip what's after the /, if the playlist isn't the audio/video playlist, assign that, clear the playlist, add the file, start playback, launch appropriate window01:31
javispedrowhat the hell01:31
Hurrianjavispedro, they probably introduced qemu01:31
Atariinoob question, what is the address to the folder which is mounted over USB?01:32
javispedrothe UI not only boots in armel, it's faster than x86.01:32
MohammadAGclasses you need are NowPlayingWindow and VideoNowPlayingWindow01:32
HurrianAtarii ~/MyDocs01:32
MohammadAGas well as MafwPlaylistAdapter and the playlist manager :P01:32
Hurrianthis is... interesting. ever since participating in the enhanced lockscreen thread, my post to thanks ratio is quickly approaching 1:101:32
MohammadAGthere's always a MusicWindow instance with those, use the last from it01:32
Atariiah thanks Hurrian, I think I couldn't see what I wanted as I had to unplug01:33
*** larsivi has joined #maemo01:33
*** kama has joined #maemo01:33
javispedrofirst time I see natively accelerated Xephyr, and it's on ARMEL target :S01:33
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC01:35
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo01:36
javispedroah well, misteries.01:36
*** tackat has joined #maemo01:37
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC01:44
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo01:46
*** asjhgd has joined #maemo01:50
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC01:55
*** kW_ has quit IRC01:55
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo01:56
*** kW_ has joined #maemo01:56
*** playya__ has quit IRC01:57
*** haohui has quit IRC02:01
*** pcacjr has quit IRC02:04
*** rcg has quit IRC02:04
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC02:04
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo02:06
*** otep has quit IRC02:06
*** otep has joined #maemo02:08
javispedroso, there's agoing to be this civil war between meegopurists and harmattanists/nokians, which side are you going to choose?02:14
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC02:14
GeneralAntillesThe bandits!02:15
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, anything new and exciting since I was last looking?02:15
merlin1991I dunno I see the point of meegopurists, but on they other hand they still have to ship me a handset device that I can support them :D02:15
javispedroGeneralAntilles: actually not, I read it on twitter02:15
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo02:15
merlin1991also javispedro generally I'm on my side ;)02:16
javispedroI do have to admit that meegopurists do have a point02:16
GeneralAntillesYeah, I get where they're coming from.02:16
GeneralAntillesBut damn02:16
GeneralAntillesAt this point you gotta take what you can get02:16
GeneralAntillesIt's not an academic project.02:16
javispedroit's trivially easy to now start building harmattan-only applications02:16
javispedrocompletely disregarding the pure meego project.02:17
javispedroand in fact, imo, that's what is going to happen.02:17
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, you have a blog? . . .02:17
GeneralAntillesWell, I think it's our job to help educate people02:17
javispedroI have a blog _and_ a twitter feed and all I do is IRC.02:17
GeneralAntillesThe whole Qt Components/Qt Quick/Qt Politics stuff was a bit bizarre.02:18
*** arvut has joined #maemo02:18
javispedroit is stillb izarre, and no one is going to limit themselves to a safe subset of the entire bizarro zone02:18
arvuthi.. I might have a serious problem with my n90002:19
GeneralAntillesvivaino was talking about working to bring them back together.02:19
GeneralAntillesI haven't been paying enough attention to the API issues.02:20
GeneralAntillesBut it seems like most of the incompatibility issues aren't insurmountable.02:20
arvutI noticed today that when I tap the status menu I get some weird pixelissues all over the screen. like big black triangles from top left corner flickering for a few seconds before staying in place so that almost half the screen is covered with em02:21
javispedroeither way, I do believe getting the harmattan love to meego is going to need a lot of push02:21
GeneralAntillesWhere the hell are community packages going, anyway?02:21
arvutso whenever I press the power button or tap the status area with finger/stylus, that happens02:21
nox-arvut, you been overclocking?02:21
GeneralAntillesarvut, have you gotten your N900 wet recently?02:22
arvutGeneralAntilles: not really02:22
arvutand this only happens when I do that02:22
arvutall app switching and other menus works fine02:22
javispedroGeneralAntilles: I am more worried about the fact that now all of us old Maemoers are now going to push all of our crap to the meticulously designed Meego repos. If there was any kind of infrastructure, it's going to be completely overrun.02:23
javispedrofor example, I see there's even a Intent-To-Package queue on the Wiki. But noone knows that.02:23
arvutactually. a small black triangle at low left bottom for a split sec when ctrl+backspace too :(02:23
javispedroarvut: have you rebooted already?02:23
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC02:24
arvutjavispedro: yeah, did earlier when cam froze at auto video mode, forced shutdown and then did a reboot02:24
arvutcould it be moisture damage you think?02:24
*** florian has quit IRC02:24
arvutirssi works fine and everything else too02:25
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo02:25
javispedroif you believe it is moisture, shut it down, remove battery and let it rest.02:25
arvutfor how long?02:25
arvuta week?02:25
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, so, I guess what we need to do is summarize the important differences02:25
*** OkropNick has quit IRC02:26
GeneralAntillesFigure out what areas we can work to minimize them02:26
GeneralAntillesget people doing that02:26
SpeedEvilarvut: Place in a hot place - ~60C for several days02:26
GeneralAntillesand make sure we're clear about what the differences are in the infra places we have input in.02:26
arvutanyway ty, will follow your advice and hope for improvements02:27
arvutSpeedEvil: doubt I can do that actually02:27
arvutswitching to laptop, brb02:27
javispedroarvut: at least for a few hours..02:27
*** arvut has quit IRC02:27
GeneralAntillesGoddamn Finns.02:27
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, I had the same question, can't say the answer on #meego helped02:27
GeneralAntillesWe don't have an N9 and they're doing shit like this:
MohammadAGI already packaged qjson and qfacebook, but what's the use02:28
javispedroMohammadAG: if you want to be in good shape, I'd try following the path for meego netbook first.02:28
MohammadAGregardless, I hope the same extras-devel process stays the same, having a repo for each person/dev is gonna clutter lists02:28
GeneralAntillesBut, we're probably best qualified (and most willing) to work on this.02:29
GeneralAntillesAs N950s are going to start showing up in the hand's of devs RSN02:29
GeneralAntillesIt should probably be a priority.02:29
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: is 60°C sensible? *points at LCD and the internal components*02:30
*** tackat has quit IRC02:31
SpeedEvil60C is about what it's going to reach in a moderately warm car.02:31
SpeedEvilRemove the battery first.02:31
ShadowJKit'd be really funny if there were community repos for N9, and they became full with random games and other crap requiring keyboard to get out of or use02:31
SpeedEvilHaving said that - my n900 was operating fine for several hours loggin GPS at 60C02:31
MohammadAGI put my N900 in the fridge once02:32
MohammadAGI just realized emulators won't run as is on the N902:32
*** NishanthM has quit IRC02:32
javispedroyou mean due to lack of keyb?02:33
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: on some LCDs 50°C is given as a max value02:33
*** Gorroth has quit IRC02:33
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC02:34
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo02:34
*** Gorroth has joined #maemo02:35
*** pcacjr has joined #maemo02:35
*** pcacjr has joined #maemo02:35
SpeedEvilN810 is specified as -30 to 80C intermittent02:35
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo02:35
*** arvut has joined #maemo02:35
arvuthi again02:35
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, somebody needs to get Jaffa to blog about this.02:36
*** geaaru has quit IRC02:36
arvutso, has any of you encountered this kind of.. behaviour from a n900 before?02:36
javispedroarvut: yes, but it usually goes away with a reboot.02:37
mikki-kunarvut: you sure you didn't break anything?02:37
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, after the 10-0 vs ovi store, the leaders created new competition that only ovi store can win ;P02:37
GeneralAntillesarvut, when my friend got his wet at Islands of Adventure.02:37
arvutmikki-kun: nothing visable, so can't tell if I did02:37
arvutGeneralAntilles: ah, and its alive today?02:37
GeneralAntillesX-Fade will be useful in this endeavor, too.02:37
GeneralAntillesarvut, yes.02:38
arvutx-fade? wow ty, thats.. reassuring somehow02:38
*** ekce86_ has quit IRC02:38
arvutI do have ensurance ofcourse but I luv my lil phone =P'02:38
javispedroarvut: x-fade is useful for the other topic we are discussing, not your wet n90002:38
ShadowJKI think you're confusing two thrads of conversation02:38
* GeneralAntilles is multitalking.02:38
mikki-kunarvut: did you install anything recently?02:39
arvutmultitalk/task ftw =)02:39
mikki-kunGeneralAntilles: i hope on the n900 ;)02:39
arvutmikki-kun: hmm, health check =) nice app really but that was like a week ago02:39
*** NishanthM has joined #maemo02:39
arvutchecks battery status and dead pixles for examle02:39
*** Termana has joined #maemo02:40
arvutits rather wet outdoors here in stockholm tho, visiting relatives but I doubt the moisture could get in and ruin it that easy. a freshly built house and all02:41
mikki-kunhm, and so far, does it happen on a special occasion?02:41
Termanagood morning02:41
arvutyeah, when I push the powerbutton to check status02:41
arvutTermana: evening =)02:41
arvutor night02:41
mikki-kunTermana: good morning :)02:41
arvutwell you know, battery level, connect to network, the top bar you can tap on the touchscreen which sums it all up02:42
arvutnear the clock02:42
mikki-kunahhhh, i thought you mentioned the physical button on top of it02:42
arvutwell, thats just a shortcut when I don't wanna use the touchscreen to do it02:43
arvutits when the menu scrolls down that this happens02:43
mikki-kunhm, so you changed the behaviour of the powerbutton?02:43
javispedroto me it seems like if Harmattan and Meego made a first attempt at approaching a year or so ago, then forgot about approaching altogether and each went its own way02:43
arvutand minimally when you press ctrl+backspace02:43
javispedrowhich is the cause of things like MTF deprecation in 1.3 when virtually _all_ of Harmattan is MTF, etc.02:44
mikki-kunjavispedro: may i ask what MTF is?02:44
arvutmikki-kun: hmm, maybe when it was new, when I press it it will show me that menu, if the screen is unlocked that is02:44
arvutif not then the slider to unlock it appears as usual02:44
javispedromikki-kun: libmeegotouch02:44
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC02:44
arvutif doublepressed, lock02:44
merlin1991mikki-kun: MTF is the meego touch framework02:45
arvutbtw, hows meego turning out=02:45
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo02:45
mikki-kunhm, when i press on my powerbutton i cannot switch connections and see the network and battery power and such02:45
* arvut still haven't tried it. should do so on this laptop first i think02:45
mikki-kunonly restart and phone, shut it down, switch profile and end the current task if one's running02:46
arvutmikki-kun: if you tap the area next to the app changerbutton then you get that menu, I also get it when I press the powerbutton once If the screen is unlocked02:46
*** ekce86 has quit IRC02:47
arvutoh, I might have modified the contents of that menu awhile ago =)02:47
mikki-kunhm, it might be some of those configurations might be fighting over who's now popping up02:47
mikki-kunin case of doubt whether hardware is broken or not, maybe make a backup and flash it02:48
arvutanyway, when it appears, the box with all that content (it appears as it should) but infront of that, a nasty big triangle, mostly black but with some red stripes in it starts flickering quickly across the screen. mostly visable from top left corner where it then stays (along with some minor ones at each corner02:49
arvutblocking ~ half of the sceen02:49
*** mc_teo` has quit IRC02:50
arvutmikki-kun: will do that if drying it up doesnt do the job, and if hardware is broken then I'm glad I got reassurance for it02:50
nox-btw were there more stories of ppl getting n8.s back who sent in n900.s for `repair'?02:51
arvutwould I notice any battery drain if hardwarefailure is the reason btw? it did drain awfully quick today too02:51
mikki-kunarvut: i personally wouldn't go too high with the temps though, 60°C sounds rather awkward for me...02:51
arvutyeah, cant reach 60°c anyway02:52
arvutmaybe if I put it ontop of this 80° laptop =|02:52
javispedroarvut: for now why don't you just remove the battery for a few minutes02:53
mikki-kunmy netbook has an emergy shutdown at 85°C i think02:53
MohammadAGjavispedro, they're not QML?02:53
arvutwhats the normal temp of the cpu on a n900 btw? QCPU.. normally says around 300 (overclocking tool I use to check temp, nothing more)02:53
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC02:54
javispedroMohammadAG: there's no single piece of qml software in the sbox sdk.02:54
javispedrowell, save for the qmlviewer app.02:54
arvutjavispedro: its done awhile ago, drying up in a shelf until late tomorrow afternoon02:54
MohammadAGdamn, I thought all the UI was QML02:54
arvutand its 01:54 here02:55
javispedroMohammadAG: most of it is MTF and GraphicsView02:55
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo02:55
arvutMTF? QML?02:55
arvutinteresting acronyms =P02:55
MohammadAGjavispedro, shows how powerful Qt is without QML02:56
javispedromy point in this civil war is that if you call harmattan meego, by the same reasoning you could call fremantle meego.02:56
mikki-kunarvut: 300? lolwtf?! x) mine has something around uhhhhh....02:56
arvutwhat's QML and MFT then?02:56
DocScrutinizerarvut: you definitely have no moisture issues. mikki-kun is probably right there is a some sort of race going on that ruins teh displayed data, and sucks battery for powering GFX core all the time02:56
*** kW_ has quit IRC02:56
javispedrobut I do see the benefits in calling harmattan meego =)02:57
*** kW_ has joined #maemo02:57
arvutDocScrutinizer: oh.. a reflash then?02:57
javispedrohmm, I should start a blog I guess ... =)02:57
DocScrutinizerarvut: there's no reliable temp sensor on CPU02:57
mikki-kunarvut: i'd also recommend checking on the current drawn and services running02:57
DocScrutinizerit's bogus02:57
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: isn't the battery sensor at least sensible?02:57
arvutxorg likes to log alot02:57
arvutlike 2-3% cpu to 100%02:58
DocScrutinizerthere is no real battery sensor02:58
arvutwell, that app is going bye bye then02:58
arvutits of no use if the sensors aren't there02:58
DocScrutinizerwhat usually is called battery temp sensor is the chip temp of the battery management chip02:58
arvutand I'm not into overclocking a perfectly neat device02:58
javispedro"@fakeselop: I'm pleased to announce that we're outsourcing future MeeGo Harmattan development to Burger King."02:59
arvutjavispedro: lol?02:59
mikki-kunarvut: x is okay, it displays all your graphics, it's a pretty essential part when you want anything apart from xterm02:59
GAN900"Would you like MMS with that?"02:59
ShadowJKactually there's a battery temp sensor in the schematics, connected to gaia madc. It probably sits on the pcb close to battery bay02:59
MohammadAGjavispedro, I actually lol'd02:59
arvutmikki-kun: yeah, but it shouldn't peak at 100% cpu for logging should it? or is that process multitasking too?03:00
arvutphone is hardly 300° =P03:01
* javispedro adds this fakeselop guy to follow list =)03:01
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and how to read it out?03:01
arvutpossibly kelvin03:01
arvutbut not °c or °f03:01
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, read madc kernel driver, learn how to talk to driver? :P03:01
DocScrutinizerhaha, I doubt anybody is doing this, except bme03:02
mikki-kunarvut: i am not sure how nokia changed it, but it is rather behaving strange on the n900, my xserver on my netbook sucks usually only at max 5% and that is on heavy duty tasks03:02
ShadowJKiirc dsme or mce03:02
ShadowJKand bme for bsi (also on madc)03:02
mikki-kunarvut: kelvin doesn't have ° in it ;)03:02
DocScrutinizerwhoever, I don't see a sensor display for that coming from anywhere03:03
arvutmikki-kun: well, its not normally lagging. not even when draining cpu03:03
ShadowJKxorg on my n900 is at <10% cpu, xchat and a bunch of xterms running03:03
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC03:04
DocScrutinizermeh, reflash03:04
arvutcamera wouldn't close today when I started it with auto video tho. red light didn't turn off and cam program didn't respond. so I shut it off manually03:04
arvutShadowJK: does it ever peak at around 90% then?03:04
arvutk, reflash it is03:04
ShadowJKnot that ive seen atleast03:05
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo03:05
arvutautomatic video, yeah. not night video03:05
*** kW_ has quit IRC03:05
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo03:05
arvutits under cam options. I use the cam a lot03:05
DocScrutinizerwhere's that?03:05
arvutopen camera, choose mode (its normally on automatic (big A)) and select that video mode03:06
DocScrutinizeraah, it's called automatic video. No idea what's automatic with that03:06
arvutprobably light sensors03:06
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: it just works magically ;) that's why it's called "auto"03:07
ShadowJKautofocus (on start), autoexposure, autoo white balance03:07
arvutah yeah, thats it. ty ShadowJK03:07
*** jhb has joined #maemo03:07
DocScrutinizerautoerotic fantasms!03:08
arvutmikki-kun: well, could be a badly written app then. as it says 293°c on cpu temp =) 250mhz out of 600 used03:08
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC03:08
*** nox- has quit IRC03:09
mikki-kunlol, 293 x) that'd be 15.85°C actually03:09
arvutor just QCPU, not sure03:09
DocScrutinizerwhen cam viewfinder tries to take over the screen, but is somehow messed up, that would quite a bit explain all your observations03:09
arvuthas gone above 300 tho'03:09
*** kW_ has joined #maemo03:09
arvutwhich is around room temp03:09
mikki-kunuhm, missed a +4 there03:09
arvutweird stuff either way03:09
* ShadowJK discovered today that only program running on his n900 that linked to qt was modest03:09
javispedromodest links to qt??03:09
arvut293 to 300? =)03:09
DocScrutinizerarvut: cpu temp is BS. esp if it doesn't change03:09
arvutit does, but its probably bs anyway03:10
ShadowJKjavispedro, grep qt /proc/*/maps :-)03:10
javispedroShadowJK: does not compute, modest is Gtk+03:10
arvutbtw, how much does one degree kelvin differ from celsius?03:11
*** liar has quit IRC03:11
javispedrosomething about mail for exchange makes modest link with qt03:12
arvutas in, how much is each degree in k, in c03:12
DocScrutinizerfind /sys -name '*temp*'03:12
mikki-kunarvut: 273.15K is 0C03:12
MohammadAGjavispedro, this guy is gold "Nokia phones will not track you, because according to our Q1 results, you clearly aren't buying them."03:12
mikki-kunone kelvin difference is one degree celcius difference03:12
ShadowJKMohammadAG, also the gos doesn't work ;p03:13
arvutty, thought so. but you did get me confused with the room temp :P03:13
MohammadAGLMFAO Reports indicate that Bin Laden let his guard down while trying to free C: memory on his N97. #nokiafightsterrorism03:13
arvutso 300k would be around 22°c if 293k is 15.85°c?03:13
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC03:13
mikki-kunit's just, that the kelvin scale is more important in physics/chemistry as 0K is the absolute zero (which cannot be achieved btw, practically impossible)03:14
mikki-kunuhhhh, 293 is actually 19.85 :) made a typo somewhere in my head :/03:14
SpeedEvilI have a fridge that goes to 0K03:14
arvutmikki-kun: yeah, isnt it like the coldest temp in celsius ever reached so far?03:14
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo03:14
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: i beg to differ... =p03:14
SpeedEvilI accidentally turned it down all the way, and made air-cubes.03:14
arvutor is it just math?03:15
javispedroMohammadAG: I am going to say that the best is this one "EEEELLLLLLLLLL-DAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"03:15
mikki-kunarvut: you cannot achieve that, it's impossible03:15
arvutas in, when particles stop generating heat..03:15
ShadowJKparticles dont generate heat03:15
arvutlack of heat would maybe stop time =)03:15
mikki-kunarvut: particles don't generate heat by themselves, but due to collision mostly ;)03:15
arvutyeah, what I meant really03:16
arvutindirectly they do tho03:16
mikki-kunbut i think that now goes to physics03:16
arvutas in #physics? =)03:16
MohammadAGmikki-kun, lies03:16
arvutaha, well I'm going to ##bed03:16
MohammadAGApple's announcing self heat generating particles in the next conference03:17
mikki-kunMohammadAG: all professors will epicly facepalm =p03:17
arvutnot looking forward to it tbh, but I must. b-day celebrations tomorrow and lots to do03:17
mikki-kunarvut: yours?03:17
MohammadAGmikki-kun, no, they'll buy them cause they're revolutionary, they don't vibrate!03:17
MohammadAGword is they have them stored in a fridge under 0K, cause they can03:18
arvutanyway, thx for teh chat, was fun and informative. little less worried about my noucko now =)~03:18
mikki-kunMohammadAG: and since when does apple invent new stuff? they stopped back in the 80s03:18
arvutmikki-kun: nope, my mom is turning 6 byte, I turned 3 byte in may.03:18
mikki-kunthey are just good copycats03:18
mikki-kunohhhh, lol XD03:18
mikki-kunthat's a fun way of expressing age :D03:19
arvutmikki-kun: excellent copycats and sneaky SE'ers =P03:19
arvutso, nn. I'll be here asap =)03:19
*** arvut has quit IRC03:19
*** Spydemon_ has quit IRC03:20
*** linuxplatform has joined #maemo03:20
mikki-kunsleep well :)03:21
*** reenignEesreveR has joined #maemo03:22
* javispedro misses Kate's fine GLESv2 Fremantle wrapper03:22
javispedrothe one imgtec ships for free is pure crap03:23
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC03:23
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo03:24
*** arvut has joined #maemo03:25
arvutguess whos alive and well again.. ;)03:25
arvutnoooouckooo!! =D03:26
arvuta reboot and some batteryfree time was all it needed03:26
javispedrowhy I knew.03:26
*** kama has quit IRC03:26
arvut60 degrees? no? ;P03:27
*** reenignEesreveR has quit IRC03:27
javispedro<javispedro> for now why don't you just remove the battery for a few minutes03:27
*** croppa has joined #maemo03:28
*** linuxplatform has quit IRC03:28
arvutanyway, I've seen iphones die and I'm not overly impressed with those andriods, but this piece of marble I'm impressed with. gj to everyone who contributed to its development :)03:28
arvutjavispedro: i did do it the first time you told me, the time you also said something about high temps :P03:29
arvutswitched to laptop for irssiing03:29
arvutthis keyboard is so my nicer tho. even if its not a laptop sv dvorak layout ;)03:30
*** kW_ has quit IRC03:30
arvutand the blueness of its irssi!03:31
arvutQCPUFreq is the app I mentioned before03:32
*** kW_ has joined #maemo03:32
arvutgonna take another look at it and see what it say now, before uninstalling it.03:32
arvut346 degrees C and smartreflex(tm) off03:33
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC03:34
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo03:34
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo03:34
SpeedEvilCPU heat is not related to the battery03:35
SpeedEvilbattery temp readout03:35
arvutwell, dangerous bogus app then I guess03:36
*** pcacjr has quit IRC03:36
arvutit allows for overclocking which is just no good03:37
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC03:38
arvutwow.. too late now. time truly flies in irc. nite nite once again, I'm !a hen :)03:38
*** arvut has left #maemo03:38
merlin1991my pentium m idles @ 50°C wtf?03:39
javispedrouh, oh.03:40
javispedrothere's a weird delay when swipe is enabled from touching the screen to the app actually registering the input03:40
lcukjavispedro, are you on hardware03:41
javispedroobviously not03:41
lcuknot obviously :)03:41
* javispedro drops some pennies in the direction of lcuk to see if he leaves any cardboard box prototype without vigilance03:42
merlin1991javispedro: the emulator for me has HUGE delays03:42
merlin1991I dunno why though03:42
*** I-C-Wiener has quit IRC03:42
javispedroyes, I made an error in my testing03:43
javispedroit is due to compositor, not anything input03:43
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC03:43
MohammadAGmy SDK runs as quick as the youtube vids :P03:44
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo03:44
MohammadAGthough the compositor/window manager behaves differently on the N9 than on the SDK03:45
merlin1991I think my install is broken03:46
javispedronah, I never got accelerated output on the _x86_ sdk03:46
MohammadAGthe view behind the app doesn't peak out when sliding03:46
merlin1991settings panel is empty besides done button03:46
javispedroMohammadAG: so do you have nvidia?03:46
merlin1991qmlviewer does nothing03:46
MohammadAGI would try the ARMEL SDK but I don't have it installed03:46
MohammadAGjavispedro, yes03:46
javispedrowith propietary?03:46
merlin1991and email client starts but I clicking the configure email button does nothing03:47
MohammadAGmerlin1991, pass a QML duh :p03:47
MohammadAGjavispedro, yeah03:47
MohammadAGthere are issues with dialogs, but the rest is quick03:47
merlin1991javispedro: does the "email" app in the emulator work for you past the first dialog?03:47
javispedrosbox is not an emulator!03:47
MohammadAGit does for me03:47
MohammadAGasks for an email and a pass03:47
*** achipa has quit IRC03:48
javispedroyes but I never got it to actually sync mail03:48
merlin1991I can't get past the first dialog :/03:48
MohammadAGthe concept of stacked windows is broken in the SDK03:49
MohammadAGeach window shows on its own in the task manager03:49
* javispedro tries to clear a misunderstanding03:50
javispedroby stacked windows you mean?03:50
javispedrothat thing about the lockscreen stacking window layers?03:50
*** wicket64 has quit IRC03:51
javispedroor HildonStackableWindow?03:51
MohammadAGjavispedro, open the email app (setup part)03:51
MohammadAGclick "Set up" or Start or Go03:51
javispedroI cannot reach that part =)03:51
javispedrobut I think that's on purpose03:51
MohammadAGwhatever it says, slide back into multitask view03:51
MohammadAGyou can see both stacked windows separate03:51
MohammadAGwhereas on maemo you only see the deepest stacked window03:51
javispedroMohammadAG: the thing here is that mail settings are part of the settings app, not mail03:52
javispedrotry to open settings03:52
MohammadAGeach window remembers how you slid it and goes from there03:52
MohammadAGif you slide up, it slides down when you return to the window03:52
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC03:53
javispedroand if you kill a process it goes "down" =)03:53
javispedro(instead of "poof" like on maemo)03:53
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo03:54
*** DrGrov has joined #maemo03:54
* merlin1991 installs x86 target again03:54
javispedroaha, so I see the trick03:55
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo03:55
javispedrocompositor adds four "swipe" X11 windows to each corner03:55
*** Necc has quit IRC03:59
merlin1991hm it seems to get "somewhere" now, but I fear my overall specs of this machine slow it down too much (1,7ghz pentum m and some crappy ati)04:00
MohammadAGjavispedro, yup, noticed that here04:01
MohammadAGsometimes they don't draw well so I see white squares04:01
rm_youhas there been any word about when there'll be an SDK available for Harmattan?04:02
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC04:02
javispedroW. T. H.04:02
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo04:03
* merlin1991 slightly remembers something about meego == rpm04:03
merlin1991but I have a nice /etc/apt/sources.list04:03
MohammadAGand harmattan == deb04:03
javispedrohere's one magic check: mdecorator lookups for the application .desktop file in /usr/share/applications/{X11 application class hint}.desktop04:03
MohammadAGrm_you, two days ago04:03
*** vblazquez has quit IRC04:04
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo04:04
*** asjhgd has quit IRC04:04
merlin1991javispedro: are you eventually going to write a blog post about the manuall installation?04:05
MohammadAGhis pastebin is actually useful enough :P04:05
HurrianMohammadAG : check 'em04:06
javispedromerlin1991: not sure unless I have more content04:06
rm_youMohammadAG: so, there was WORD 2 days ago, or it was released two days ago? :P04:06
Hurrianthe media player... has been pimped out04:06
MohammadAGrm_you, latter04:06
MohammadAGHurrian, while that looks cool, I have no idea how to fade the image like that :p04:06
HurrianMAG : apply the image as a gradient i guess04:07
Hurriancan you change opacity of images in QT?04:07
javispedrothe harmattan cellular API looks impressive04:07
MohammadAGnot that I know, at least not without subclassing04:07
javispedrothere's stuff to manipulate SIM phonebook for example04:07
Atariianyone used the bleeding-edge wl1251 wifi driver?04:08
merlin1991Atarii: I did / do04:08
*** vblazquez has quit IRC04:08
Atariigot it to inject ok?04:08
Atariidoes it matter what firmware I use? I'm just using the latest everything04:08
merlin1991firmware is no problem, but kernel could04:09
merlin1991what version of the power kernel do you have?04:09
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo04:10
javispedrobtw, since osso was dropped, also the entire launched via dbus thing was also dropped04:10
MohammadAGhow are apps launched?04:10
javispedroplain exec04:11
Atariimerlin1991 that look right? ^^04:11
merlin1991Atarii: and you didn't upgrade that one over the application manager?04:11
javispedroboosted apps get some kind of single instance support04:11
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC04:12
merlin1991Atarii: run apt-cache policy kernel-power04:12
AtariiI flashed VANILLA then COMBINED then followed this guide basically:
Atariiah, after installing the kernel?04:13
merlin1991just run it now to check the real version installed04:13
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo04:13
javispedroso this aegis thing talks to bb5 chip..04:13
Atariiwell I've just started again so I've got a fresh device again now04:13
merlin1991in that case it "should" work04:14
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC04:14
Atariiok i'll follow that guide again04:16
merlin1991anyone here know if mikhail_ramalho from tmo visits this channel?04:16
*** marthd has quit IRC04:16
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC04:17
*** NIN101 has quit IRC04:19
javispedroI guess where it says "Click" it should say "Flick"04:21
*** jhb has quit IRC04:21
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC04:22
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo04:23
javispedrohaha, someone already made the new icon for drnoksnes for me:
javispedrowhoever you are, thank you!04:25
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo04:26
*** x29a_ has quit IRC04:27
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo04:27
*** abhy has joined #maemo04:28
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC04:29
*** x29a has quit IRC04:30
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: plain exec \o/ anothe cruft POS gone04:30
*** romaxa_home has quit IRC04:30
*** romaxa_home has joined #maemo04:30
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC04:31
DocScrutinizer~lart aegis04:32
* infobot shoves a crumpet down aegis's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that?04:32
*** MetalGearSolid has joined #maemo04:32
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo04:33
* javispedro fails to find .desktop file documentation in meegotouch docs04:33
DocScrutinizergood sign04:33
javispedrobad sign04:33
javispedrocause there's lots of new stuff04:34
javispedroharmattan implements iphone-style uninstalling of applications04:34
DocScrutinizermight mean they finally stick with freedesktop standards04:34
*** Smily has joined #maemo04:34
javispedrovia deleting launcher icon => uninstalls associated application04:34
javispedroso I'm sure this means there's at least a new "packagename" field or similar.04:34
*** nicofs has quit IRC04:35
DocScrutinizerI'm really not quite sure whether I like that M604:35
Hurrian*Doc: multitasking's still great04:36
Hurrianbut why did they remove customizable homescreens?04:37
Hurrianseems like nokia just brain farted... again04:37
DocScrutinizerwell, almost all the voodoo in M5 is well understood now, they basically HAD to come up with new cruft to keep us busy and excited04:37
Hurrian...they really do love doing things ass-backwards, don't they?04:37
Atariimerlin1991 still no go :(04:38
* javispedro can't believe you're complaining about customizable homescreens04:38
Atariiaireplay-ng -9 waln0 causes "Device or resource busy....Sysfs injection was not found either"04:38
Hurrian>>>deleting launcher icon => uninstalls associated application04:39
Hurrianthe ffffff?04:39
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I can't believe anybody< van live with a predefined immutable homescreen04:39
Hurrianoh well, consumer device etc04:39
MohammadAGjavispedro, if it's smart, it does a dpkg -S to find which package the icon is part of04:39
Hurrianbut ffs, why doesn't ANY smartphone OS include icon hiding out of the box?04:39
DocScrutinizerthree cheers on MohammadAG04:40
DocScrutinizerbrillinat answer :-)04:40
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC04:41
DocScrutinizerI just wonder who decided differentiation is swearword now for meego, and everything has to look and feel like iPhone04:42
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo04:42
DocScrutinizer""it's NOT a computer, it's an iPhone-me-too"04:42
javispedrobut I do not see why doing iphone-style uninstalling is bad04:43
* DocScrutinizer shakes head about epigones04:43
Hurrian@DocScrutinizer : differentiation INDEED.04:44
* MohammadAG puts on troll hat, there's also an android style pull down menu, but iOS ripped that off too04:44
Hurriano hai, we're not an android copycat, that's just an iOS copycat04:44
javispedroMohammadAG: it's not pull down I think04:44
DocScrutinizerI don't see why they never had proper submenu support ootb in m5, then decided to nuke the single submenu they got in PR1.2, and now we get an OS where homescreen==applauncher04:44
javispedrothe difference, is that meegotouchome is home ;)04:45
infobotjavispedro meant: the difference, is that meegotoucopen is home ;)04:45
javispedroinfobot: bad bot04:45
infobotBad bot, bad! No cookie for you!04:45
MohammadAGhildon-home was open :p04:45
*** Hurrian has quit IRC04:45
javispedrobetween harmattan and the iphone :p04:45
javispedroI have to wonder though if application installer is open or closed04:46
javispedroseemingly it is the one doing the .desktop tricks04:46
javispedroQString desktopEntryPath = LauncherDataStore::keyToEntryPath(dataStore->key(packageName));04:47
MohammadAGjavispedro, mind checking something while you're at it04:48
Atariimerlin1991 nvm got it :D04:48
* DocScrutinizer turns away terrified04:48
MohammadAGcan more homescreens be added?04:48
javispedrowell, by patching it yes04:49
*** KMFDM has quit IRC04:49
javispedroie there's a place where it just creates the 3 views04:49
MohammadAGwell, what's "it" and is "it" open?04:49
MohammadAGoh, that's the one?04:50
* MohammadAG adds more stuff to his todo if he gets a device04:50
javispedrodesktopview.cpp, around like 14404:50
javispedrowell, around lines 100-20004:51
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC04:51
MohammadAGexcellent, ty04:51
javispedro    windowLayout->addItem(switcher); ...     windowLayout->addItem(quickLaunchBar (??) ); ...     windowLayout->addItem(launcher);04:51
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo04:52
javispedroI'm missing the notifications stuff04:52
javispedroif it's on another module then it means it must be extensible04:52
MohammadAGnotifications are MTF afaik04:53
javispedroI mean the code that shows them inside meegotouchhome04:54
*** haohui has joined #maemo04:56
*** haohui has left #maemo04:58
javispedroharmattan surely takes a shitload more time to build than fremantle04:59
javispedrothat many c++..04:59
*** licensed has quit IRC05:00
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC05:00
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo05:01
MohammadAGbut it's a bit more understandable :p05:01
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, have you summarized the relevance deltas between MeeGo and Harmattan?05:06
GeneralAntillesAnd merged the APIs?05:06
javispedrowhat? I'm still just understanding the deltas between maemo and harmattan! =)05:07
DocScrutinizer FWIW05:08
MohammadAGnice DocScrutinizer05:09
MohammadAGshouldn't the NFC part say N9 only?05:09
MohammadAGalso the FCC shows a 12MP camera on the N95005:09
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC05:09
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo05:11
MohammadAGalso, what's the final name for Harmattan? MeeGo or Maemo?05:11
DocScrutinizernfc how it made it into strings from N950 fiasco05:12
MohammadAGanyway, off to bed05:12
*** Atarii has quit IRC05:15
DocScrutinizerthe FCC shows a black block with a lens, maybe a writing that says Zeiss which is not correct. There may be other writings on prototypes that are not correct05:16
mikki-kunhm, could the n900 speak to a webcam if that'd be attached to it's microusb?05:16
DocScrutinizerwhy not05:16
ds3arrrg MicroSIM05:16
DocScrutinizerNO microSIM05:17
ds3gsmarena specs for N9 is wrong?05:17
mikki-kunseems that's a yes then :)05:17
mikki-kunuhm, n950 with 12mp? sweet :)05:17
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo05:18
DocScrutinizerImportant: Do not use a mini-UICC SIM card, also05:18
DocScrutinizerknown as a micro-SIM card, a micro-SIM card with an05:18
DocScrutinizeradapter, or a SIM card that has a mini-UICC cutout (see05:18
DocScrutinizerfigure) in this device. A micro SIM card is smaller than the05:18
DocScrutinizerstandard SIM card. This device does not support the use05:18
DocScrutinizerof micro-SIM cards and use of incompatible SIM cards may05:18
DocScrutinizerdamage the card or the device, and may corrupt data05:18
DocScrutinizerstored on the card.05:18
DocScrutinizerthat's N95005:18
ds3ah, N9 vs N950 difference05:19
DocScrutinizer*nobody* can say what N9 _really_ will look like when rollout05:19
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC05:19
mikki-kunbtw, the n900 support micro-sims... got accidently one and well, piece of paper, soome steady hand and voila :)05:20
MohammadAGafaik it's uSIM05:20
ds3what's a NFC module?05:20
*** Kilroo1 has quit IRC05:20
MohammadAGmicroSIMs seem identical to full size ones to me05:20
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo05:21
*** beford has quit IRC05:21
*** beford has joined #maemo05:22
DrGrovSo N9 will have regular SIM card size and N950 will have micro-SIM size?05:22
ds3NFC == near Field communications?05:22
MohammadAGDrGrov, no, you mixed up05:22
DrGrovOk, I am mixed up as always LOL05:23
DrGrovSo it is microSIM for N9 as well then?05:23
DrGrovDamn, need to cut and get handy which I am not05:23
MohammadAGN9 uSIM, N950 normal SIM05:23
DrGrovWhat is the difference with a normal SIM and uSIM? I am quite sure I have a uSIM....05:24
ds3N950 looks like a bug fix for the N90005:24
DrGrovOf course I can not be completely sure05:24
MohammadAGby u I meant the greek letter mu, meaning micro05:25
MohammadAGnot USIM, the one introduced with 3G05:25
*** ColdFyre has quit IRC05:25
DrGrovOk, so it is not the one introduced with 3G05:25
DrGrovI need a new SIM then05:25
MohammadAGmicroSIMs are the ones iPhone 4 uses05:25
*** ColdFyre has joined #maemo05:25
MohammadAGyou can knife your existing SIM, just saying05:25
DrGrovYes, could do that as well but I am not so handy.05:26
DrGrovI'll just end up carving up the thing as a turkey05:26
DrGrovAny news on release dates yet of the N9?05:27
DrGrovI read something about Summer 2011... That is perhaps accurate or still going later?05:27
MohammadAGAugust / September05:27
DrGrovOk, that is a good release date.05:27
DrGrovIt will be interesting to see if it actually will be the same as the promo videos and showings05:28
DocScrutinizerno way05:28
DrGrovAny things that could still change?05:28
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: What would change then?05:28
ds3that will turn a normal sim into a uSim05:29
DocScrutinizerno way it will roll out in August05:29
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: You think more likely October or November perhaps?05:29
DocScrutinizerN900 was announced for June iirc, it got almost decenber05:29
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC05:30
DocScrutinizerseems there's not even FCC application for N9 yet05:30
ds3a better question is - will it even make it to market05:30
*** maybeArgh has joined #maemo05:30
MohammadAGno DocScrutinizer05:30
MohammadAGThe N900 was leaked in June05:30
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo05:30
MohammadAGit was announced in October I think05:31
*** maybeWTF has quit IRC05:31
DrGrovSo it looks like the N9 will be released later... October perhaps? Even December is not too far away?05:31
MohammadAGit wasn't announced June-August, I'm sure of that05:31
DocScrutinizerI got mine in late november and Nokia had my money on preorder for almost 3 months05:31
ds3the N950 looks more attractive then the N905:31
MohammadAGI like the looks of the N9 more, the kb of the N95005:32
DrGrovThe problem is that regular customers won't get the N950 which is a shame05:32
ds3do you need to be an approved developer to get the N950?05:32
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:33
MohammadAGjust a community dev05:33
DrGrovds3: That is how I understand it. No N950 for regular customers05:33
ds3okay, where does one sign up to be a dev?05:33
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:33
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:33
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:33
MohammadAGare you a dev?05:33
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo05:33
javispedrook, bullshit.05:33
ds3yes, I do development on ARM and related mobile devices05:34
DrGrovjavispedro: What is bullshit? LOL05:34
MohammadAGdone devel on Maemo?05:34
javispedrocrap, crap,crap.05:34
javispedroMohammadAG: meegotouchhome is nonfree05:34
ds3a tiny little bit05:34
*** Evanescence has quit IRC05:34
ds3<-- low level guy, mostly distro agnostic05:34
MohammadAGjavispedro, then what am I looking at?05:34
MohammadAGor was looking at05:35
javispedroMohammadAG: a decoy05:35
DrGrovIs there a chance to get a N950 later though?05:35
DrGrovMight want a N950 instead of a N905:35
MohammadAGa what o_O05:35
DrGrovDue to the keyboard05:35
javispedroMohammadAG: meegotouchhome is a stub binary (~50KiB) with a large library that does the heavy work05:35
ds3MohammadAG: is there a particular program or list of requirements to qualify as a "developer"?05:35
javispedroMohammadAG: while on the harmattan rootstrap, /usr/bin/meegotouchhome is around 1 MiB large05:35
MohammadAGds3, just having done devel for maemo/meego afaik05:35
javispedroMohammadAG: and has keywords such as "SwipeDesktop", etc.05:36
*** lxp has quit IRC05:36
*** Sc0rpius has quit IRC05:36
ds3MohammadAG: how does one establish that?05:36
MohammadAGjavispedro, anything swipe related is closed afaik05:36
MohammadAGso Harmattan is more closed (UI wise) than Fremantlw05:36
javispedrowhat i'm saying is that despite the fact that it is the normal meego's meegotouchview, the binary is haxxored to use classes that are on the binary itself instead of on the .s05:37
javispedro_and_ no source for this "enlarged" binary.05:38
DocScrutinizerMaemo 5 injects speed and power into mobile computing05:38
DocScrutinizer August 27, 200905:38
DocScrutinizerThe new Nokia N900: Computer-grade performance in a handset Espoo, Finland – Nokia today marked the next phase in the evolution of Maemo software with the new Nokia N900.05:38
javispedroso, because of this swipe thing, we have closed source launcher.05:39
javispedrohow cool..05:39
* javispedro sighs05:39
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC05:39
*** DrGrov has left #maemo05:39
* javispedro retires everything that he said a few hours ago about the platform05:39
javispedrostupid decision.05:39
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo05:40
MohammadAGlet's start rewriting!05:40
* javispedro tries to unhaxxor the binary05:42
DocScrutinizerthis UI is a nuissance anyway05:42
DocScrutinizerI bet you can't even operate it via kbd when you have aore retrofit one, hell I'm sure it won't even work properly with a mouse05:43
*** marainein has quit IRC05:44
DocScrutinizerand I've heard nothing about real AV either05:44
javispedrothis stuff has never really worked with amouse05:44
DocScrutinizerMHS? forget it05:44
DocScrutinizerMHD even05:44
DocScrutinizerhonestly, I can't see a single reason why anybody would want to get a N9. All that might be interested in the concept already have a iPhone or droid hw05:45
MohammadAGyou can always forward port hildon05:46
MohammadAGpersonally, I like the 1GB RAM part05:46
SpeedEvilOr just boot meego on it05:46
MohammadAGor install nitdroid /hides05:46
DocScrutinizeror cyanogen MUHAHAHA05:47
MohammadAGor Windows 805:47
DocScrutinizerno way, wrong root cert05:47
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC05:49
javispedrotadaa, ran the ugly meegohome05:49
javispedroyou just need to remove SwipeDesktopView crap from /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/meegotouchhome.conf and it opens the ugly one05:49
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo05:50
javispedroit looks uglier than usual, I guess this is because theme is broken.05:50
DocScrutinizerRasterman hooked me on maemo with the N800 (or 770?) he had in TPE. I looked at that thing, at the desktop, at the mediaplayer, I checked out the N810 and seen the hw kbd, and I was sold. If thatthing had been a N9, not even back in 2008 I had uttered anything more than "meh" :shrug:05:50
javispedrobut you can add whatever you want to this one. If you implement it, of course.05:50
DocScrutinizerI can do that on android and iOS as well05:52
javispedrotechnically not on ios.05:52
DocScrutinizertechnically not on meego harmattan with aegis, been your text!05:52
javispedroI'm yet waiting to see what it will be used for.05:53
DocScrutinizeryeah, said oppenheimer05:53
javispedroobviously it will be used to drive russian nuke sites05:55
javispedronow I have to undo all this crap if I want to see swipe again =)05:57
DocScrutinizeryou've seen that passage from manual: SDK for Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. In-device tools, such as a terminal application and Nokia Energy Profiler. Some of the tools have a graphical user interface and can be found with the other applications, others can only be used using a command-line interface. To disable the tools, select and Security > Developer mode, and deactivate Developer mode. Do not remove the tools.05:57
DocScrutinizeryou bet standard apps esp commercial apps won't run in developer mode05:57
javispedrowe have positive examples05:58
DocScrutinizerso you can choose: angry birds or debug tools05:58
javispedrowebos does have a developer mode and there's not even an visible API for it to be detected05:58
javispedroso angry birds cannot reject to run on that basis05:58
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC05:58
javispedroso as I was saying I'm waiting to see what Nokia uses it for.05:58
javispedromy hope: as RST said, aegis is something that does not need to work. it just needs to be there.05:59
DocScrutinizerit's not the point what nokia is using it for, each app developer can use it to lock the own app05:59
*** MadViking has quit IRC05:59
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo05:59
DocScrutinizerther'll be more and more apps that refuse to run in devel mode05:59
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I have added one example: no app in webos refuses to run in devel mode.06:00
DocScrutinizerwebOS, OMG06:00
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I do not see why Rovio would be more evil on aegis than webos06:00
DocScrutinizerdevel mode in webOS is terra incognita to me06:00
DocScrutinizeras is whole webOS06:00
*** stonda has quit IRC06:01
*** hiemanshu has quit IRC06:01
DocScrutinizermaybe because webOS doen't have any proper security framework, and devel mode means something completely different for them? NFC06:01
javispedrobut that's exactly my point06:01
javispedrothey have an entire security framework06:01
javispedrothey developed a cryptofs thing like aegisfs06:02
javispedroand it just sits there06:02
*** stonda has joined #maemo06:02
javispedroor mostly unused06:02
*** hiemanshu has joined #maemo06:02
*** hiemanshu has joined #maemo06:02
DocScrutinizerI am convinced thru knowledge that aegis MSSF is spawn from hell06:03
javispedrothere's even a plain function call that says something along the lines of "is_my_app_pirated()" and is intented as a simple anticopy measure06:03
javispedroand no game uses it =)06:03
*** Katibe has quit IRC06:05
DocScrutinizersw devel gasheads' fart, when industry fed them with too much BS with money souce on top06:06
DocScrutinizerprobably N9 *must not* have video out, as that would break the "trust" for the platform, so couldn't playback DRM content06:07
javispedroaegis_system_open, aegis_system_protected =)06:07
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC06:08
javispedroso, as I was saying, before panicing, let's wait and see what's the deal =)06:08
DocScrutinizerthe deal is all the shit is in place ready to use06:08
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo06:08
DocScrutinizernot really as *allegedly* they didn't implement full DRM06:09 or whatever the page states clearly diferent06:09
*** abhy has quit IRC06:10
DocScrutinizerand it seems rather obvious we'd need a custom kernel again, at least for hostmode06:12
DocScrutinizer"we didn't see him aim at anybody yet with that M-134D mounted on his SUV's roof, so why be concerned there might be any danger with that?"06:16
GAN900DocScrutinizer, why indeed.06:17
*** jonwil has joined #maemo06:17
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC06:18
javispedrowarning: aegisSessionOpen() - failed to open platsec device (ret=-1)06:18
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo06:18
*** radic has joined #maemo06:19
javispedro"Aegis will now proceed to fire the M-134D. Please remain calm while we open several security holes on your skin."06:19
*** radic_ has quit IRC06:22
javispedro-sh: sudo: not found06:23
javispedronot coming with sudo is interesting.06:24
jonwilAnyone know who Joerg Reisenweber is?06:27
jonwiland what his nick is in here (if he has one)?06:27
javispedronoone really does, not even DocScrutinizer.06:27
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC06:28
jonwilhi, saw your emails06:28
jonwilMy md5sum of my old matches the one you gave06:28
*** marainein has joined #maemo06:28
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo06:28
SpeedEvilAnd mine06:28
*** marainein has quit IRC06:28
DocScrutinizerthen there's sth odd either with my hexedit or my ability to parse your instructions06:29
jonwilI can confirm that address 0x DD78 does contain the byte 0xFF06:30
DocScrutinizercould you run a cmp between yu rpatched version and the original?06:30
TermanaRe: SIM cutting to microSIM cutting. I have a SIM that has a really small chip on it (it's a thin rectangle rather than a big square), anyone know if these still work in MicroSIM phones when cut?06:30
DocScrutinizerall normal sims work when cut to microSIM06:31
DocScrutinizeras long as you're careful06:31
javispedrofile offset = 0xdd78  does contain 0xff here, same checksum as DocScrutinizer06:31
*** kW_ has quit IRC06:31
jonwilThose are the 3 bytes I changed06:32
DocScrutinizermaybe I start to lose neurons somewhere06:32
jonwilAlso, Doc, was it you who said a clone of hald-addon-bme would be useful?06:32
DocScrutinizernot a clone but a version that talks to bq27200 rather than bme06:33
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC06:33
javispedrohal is opensource, deprecated but opensource06:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: what tool do you use to get bytevalue at offset 0xdd78 ?06:34
javispedroaddons are basically little helpers that launch external processes or do some other fileio crap and then return a text file that hald uses to parse the device tree06:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: well understood06:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: "od" =)06:35
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo06:35
javispedrothe gray bar thing looks like a mcompositor error06:36
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC06:36
javispedroit is assuming lack of a certain atom is not the same as having the atom but 0,0,0,006:36
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC06:37
* javispedro wins prize for best unprecedented change of context06:37
DocScrutinizerdarn, NFC what went wrong when I used hexedit06:38
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo06:38
DocScrutinizerall fine here06:38
DocScrutinizerjonwil: could you toss over md5 of atched
jonwilThats what I get06:40
jonwilis that what you get?06:40
* javispedro ponders clicking ...06:41
jonwilas for hald-addon-bme, I am planning to create a clone (one that talks to libbmeipc and BME which someone can then adapt to talk directly to the charger chip.06:43
*** psychologe has joined #maemo06:45
*** psycho_oreos has joined #maemo06:47
DocScrutinizerNOW I'LL NUKE IT, THIS PILE OF SH*T!06:47
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC06:47
DocScrutinizerof course awk is messybox. of course it doesn't know gsub function06:48
TermanaBUSYBOX FTW!06:48
Termana~nuke DocScrutinizer06:48
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo06:48
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DocScrutinizer ... B☢☢M!06:48
jonwilas for Cell Broadcast SMS, I think I need to simply start copying code from ofono for the cell broadcast decode06:48
infobotTermana, I don't like to nuke doc!06:49
Termanainfobot, my light is about to blow, it is flickering - are you doing that?06:50
infobotTermana: okay06:50
jonwilOnce I get my dumper decoding the CBSMS messages, I will upload it to my phone and go on a trip and have it dump as many CBSMS messages as I can find06:50
*** javispedro has quit IRC06:52
jonwilTime to go mess with ofono code06:54
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC06:57
*** vblazquez has quit IRC06:58
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo06:58
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo06:59
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo07:00
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC07:06
*** omar_ has joined #maemo07:07
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo07:07
*** Shoruken has quit IRC07:10
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC07:16
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo07:17
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC07:25
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo07:26
*** Roomerlol has joined #maemo07:28
*** psychologe has quit IRC07:31
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:35
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC07:35
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo07:36
*** beford has quit IRC07:36
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo07:36
*** shamus has quit IRC07:36
*** shamus has joined #maemo07:37
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC07:44
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo07:45
*** beford has joined #maemo07:49
*** beford has quit IRC07:49
*** beford has joined #maemo07:49
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC07:53
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo07:55
*** Kilroo has quit IRC07:56
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC08:03
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo08:04
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo08:05
jonwilwhy wont this stupid tower send me a CBSMS message :(08:08
jonwilcell broadcast SMS08:10
*** Zahra has joined #maemo08:12
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC08:13
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo08:14
*** kthomas has joined #maemo08:20
jonwilbah, cant get the tower to send me one at all even though it did yesterday :(08:21
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC08:23
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC08:23
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo08:23
*** beford has quit IRC08:23
*** Roomerlol has quit IRC08:25
*** NishanthM has quit IRC08:26
jonwilbah, stupid tower :(08:30
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC08:32
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo08:33
*** beford has joined #maemo08:40
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC08:41
jonwilbah, nothing I do gets it to send me a Cell Broadcast SMS :(08:42
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo08:42
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC08:51
SpeedEvilSometimes they are sent to warn of Tsunamis.08:51
SpeedEvilMaybe you could arrange one?08:51
*** Zahra has quit IRC08:51
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo08:52
jonwilno, this tower should be sending identification CBSMS messages08:52
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I seem to still get same dbus msg as before. Nevertheless I want to try with your dbuscb.c. How to compile it? You generally should add your commands to and doc of output, otherwise it's ahrd to interpret and duplicate. Here a compile instruction would be nice08:53
jonwilI am working on improving the output08:54
DocScrutinizerI'm not interested in an improved output, I want to test if your cmd gives me any result at all08:54
jonwilThe output is not really usable right now08:54
DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter08:54
jonwilif I can get it to send me a CBSMS, I will be able to finish fixing it and get it to dump usable CBSMS08:55
DocScrutinizerfine, while I get meaningless dbus msgs here, and have no chance to test and duplicate your results :-/08:55
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo08:55
DocScrutinizerI think the patch does not work08:56
jonwilto compile the file you just need to link it with dbus08:57
jonwilsomething like gcc dbuscb.c -o dbuscb `pkg-config --libs --cflags dbus-1`08:57
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC09:00
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo09:01
*** beford has quit IRC09:04
*** shamus has quit IRC09:05
jonwilI think I need to take this on the road and go for a walk to see if I can get it to talk to another tower09:06
*** shamus has joined #maemo09:07
*** jonwil has quit IRC09:09
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC09:10
DocScrutinizerok, that patcher of mine is buggy09:10
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo09:11
*** shamus has quit IRC09:12
*** LiraNuna has quit IRC09:12
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo09:13
*** FIQ has quit IRC09:15
*** beford has joined #maemo09:16
*** Pillum has joined #maemo09:19
PillumIve got a problem with theme customizer and segoe ui light font09:20
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC09:20
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo09:20
Pillumif I set the system font to "Segoe UI WP Light"09:20
Pillumand save the changes09:20
Pillumit reverts to a other font09:20
* SpeedEvil ponders rsync as patch09:24
SpeedEvilthough actually - that makes no sense09:24
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Wouldn't dd make more sense?09:25
SpeedEvilSimply md5sum to check, if it's right, dd single bytes09:25
SpeedEvilOh - I suppose busybox dd is retarded09:26
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC09:28
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo09:30
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC09:38
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo09:39
*** davyg has joined #maemo09:45
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo09:45
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC09:48
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo09:49
DocScrutinizerI don't know if dd can used like this, haven't thought about it yet09:56
DocScrutinizerbut that script is still rather buggy, luckily it recovers09:56
DocScrutinizerod is buggy09:57
DocScrutinizeradds one bogus line with only addr at end, I noticed that but forgot to take measures09:57
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC09:58
DocScrutinizerplus there are also typos and a semantic error in it09:58
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo09:58
DocScrutinizerjust catched a correctly patched lib inmidst of the process, only has a bogus additional byte at end09:59
DocScrutinizerfixed patchscript later09:59
DocScrutinizeror you try to find the bugs ;-D09:59
*** achipa has joined #maemo10:07
*** achipa has joined #maemo10:07
DocScrutinizer looks gooooood10:07
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC10:07
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo10:08
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC10:14
*** s1gk1ll has quit IRC10:15
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo10:16
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC10:16
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo10:17
*** s1gk1ll has joined #maemo10:18
DocScrutinizergreat, busybox od sucks as well10:21
DocScrutinizerI actualy wonder if there's a single cmd in busybox that's *not* crippled and sucks10:22
*** Pillum has quit IRC10:22
*** Rhoruns has joined #maemo10:23
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo10:24
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC10:26
*** ekce86 has joined #maemo10:26
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo10:27
RST38hDoc: Want fun?10:29
*** zap has joined #maemo10:29
*** Zahra has joined #maemo10:32
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC10:35
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo10:36
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo10:43
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC10:45
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo10:46
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo10:47
*** Smily has quit IRC10:47
SpeedEvilRST38h: Is this fun open to anyone?10:49
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you got surplus?10:52
DocScrutinizerI have more fun than a single IT-dude can deal with, with busybox etc atm10:53
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC10:55
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo10:55
RST38hSpeedEvil,Doc: Yes, open to anyone but make sure you have noteaten recently10:59
RST38hAnyway, suppose you write native code for Android. This is bound to include at least a few JNI functions.10:59
RST38hThe fun is, each JNI function name is supposed_to_include_full_java_package_name11:00
RST38hSo, if you would like to write code reusable from multiple applications, you are in for some pain =)11:00
RST38has I said, make sure you have not eaten11:01
*** I-C-Wiener has joined #maemo11:02
*** Appiah has quit IRC11:03
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC11:04
DocScrutinizerdarn would this be easy in a proper coding language, using f=fopen("/usr/lib/", "r+"), fseek(f, 0xddf6,SEEK_SET), write(f, "\0x53",1), close(f)11:05
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo11:05
DocScrutinizerRST38h: andridiot? I'm immune to attacks from this direction11:07
DocScrutinizerI'm just amazed not every name has to start with GOOGLE_11:08
*** x29a_ has quit IRC11:09
*** mesx has joined #maemo11:11
*** Gorroth has quit IRC11:13
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle11:13
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC11:14
*** mookie has quit IRC11:14
*** Gorroth has joined #maemo11:15
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo11:15
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC11:23
*** liar has joined #maemo11:25
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo11:25
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo11:25
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo11:25
*** rcg has joined #maemo11:27
*** ekce86 has quit IRC11:28
*** jpe has joined #maemo11:28
*** beford has quit IRC11:31
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC11:33
RST38hDoc: Well, given how widespread it is, I am porting my stuff to it. And so far, it feels pretty pathetic =(11:34
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo11:34
SpeedEvilDoes anyone happen to have seen any datestamps of any form on the n950 hw?11:34
RST38hDoc: Have not yet decided if it is worse or the same as Symbian in terms of butthurt11:35
SpeedEvilWell - android will be around >201411:35
*** shamus has joined #maemo11:38
SpeedEvilOooh. That reminds me.11:40
* SpeedEvil goes and submits the n9 to blendteks 'stuff to blend' page.11:41
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo11:41
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC11:43
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo11:44
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC11:45
*** Appiah has joined #maemo11:46
*** mc_teo` has joined #maemo11:51
*** mc_teo` has joined #maemo11:51
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC11:52
*** geaaru has joined #maemo11:53
kerioSpeedEvil: so we can see the internals?11:54
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo11:54
* SpeedEvil adds Elop to the list.11:54
*** Gorroth has quit IRC11:54
RST38hlist of what?11:55
*** Spydemon has joined #maemo11:56
*** Gorroth has joined #maemo11:56
*** wazd_ has joined #maemo11:57
kerioelop is the kind of person you don't really want to see dead11:58
keriobut you do want to bitchslap *hard*11:58
RST38hSpeed: Ah, that... Isn't that going to be too toxic?11:58
*** buntfalke has joined #maemo12:02
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC12:02
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo12:03
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo12:06
*** cloudyLights has joined #maemo12:12
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC12:12
*** klasu__ has quit IRC12:13
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo12:13
*** dailylinux has joined #maemo12:20
*** kthomas has quit IRC12:20
*** kthomas has joined #maemo12:21
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC12:22
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo12:23
JaffaGeneralAntilles: javispedro: MohammadAG: X-Fade is working on getting Harmattan SDK into, so community apps will end up in apps.meego.com12:26
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC12:31
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo12:33
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo12:36
*** kama has joined #maemo12:36
*** unixSnob has quit IRC12:37
*** alterego has joined #maemo12:37
*** jonwil has joined #maemo12:37
jonwilGood job with the decoding DocScrutinizer12:38
alteregoI think today I'm gonna setup my blog again.12:39
jonwilwhat is your blog about?12:39
alteregoIt was mostly about maemo12:40
alteregoBut it'll be mostly about meego now12:40
*** zhasha has quit IRC12:41
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC12:42
jonwilI have some code to finish and then tomorrow I will be heading to the 4 points of the compass trying to make my phone talk to as many Optus GSM towers as possible12:42
jonwiland to get Cell Broadcast SMS messages for the tower name from those towers12:42
jonwilfor my logs12:42
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo12:42
DocScrutinizerjonwil: yeah, we now would need an app that links in to system dbus and listens to these msgs. Then, on receiving such a msg, looks up in a list of subscribed channels (seems there are max 0..999) if it is relevant, if so it decodes the PDU and does with it whatever due: open a screen to display it instantly, put it to conversations as new msg, write it to a system area applet to e.g update "homezone"...12:42
JaffaDoes anyone know if there's a #ifdef Q_OS_HARMATTAN or something?12:43
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC12:45
alteregoJaffa: no there isn't one.12:46
RST38hJaffa: not then?12:46
Jaffaalterego: Is it possible to detect whether or not certain QML libraries (e.g. will be available?12:46
alteregoNot sure if it has the same Q_WS_MAEMO flag though ..12:46
DocScrutinizerjonwil: of course such app needs a config screen to un/subscribe to channels, and to define what to do with the message when a new one comes in.12:46
alteregoJaffa: from pure qml no, you might need to make a plugin youself to do the detection.12:46
Jaffaalterego: I can run my root item for Attitude as the initialPage of a PageStackWindow, but I want to know whether or not that'll work12:47
Jaffaalterego: Not from pure QML, but from C++?12:47
alteregoI heard qt components was supposed to provide that functionality at some point too ..12:47
alteregoJaffa: the only way to do it would currently be from C++ :/12:48
Jaffaalterego: Complex C++?12:48
Jaffaalterego: But that still depends on having Components :-/12:48
alteregoOr providing qml with the right interfaces.12:48
jonwilThe plan I had was (at least initially) to have a hildon-desktop widget (same thing as what the battery widget and other things are) that would wire up to IncomingCBS and listen for incoming messages12:48
DocScrutinizerjonwil: the dbus monitoring could be done by dbus scripts app, as it is kinda default for all sorts of such tasks, so we'd not need to include that code to another process12:48
Jaffaalterego: And the fact that the imports vary by platform is, TBH, completely FUBAR12:48
Jaffaalterego: "right interfaces"?12:48
alteregoJaffa: It's not hard at all12:48
DocScrutinizerjonwil: (keep memeory footprint small for standard)12:49
jonwiloh ok, so there is a standard thing that can do the dbus logging, that's great12:49
alteregoJaffa: yeah, you can expose a library querying object to qml12:49
jonwilin any case right now I just need to get my dump program working right so I can collect cell tower names from as many towers as possible12:49
Jaffaalterego: General initial direction?12:49
DocScrutinizerjonwil: yep, search in repos for dbus scripting12:49
DocScrutinizerit segfaulted for me, after several minutes12:50
RST38hJaffa: Please, clarify: do Harmattan apps go into repos or into
*** tackat has joined #maemo12:51
JaffaRST38h: I'm 99.9% certain it'll be meego.com12:51
RST38hJaffa: Oh. More trouble.12:51
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC12:51
*** Zucca has quit IRC12:52
JaffaRST38h: If someone puts a .spec file alongside debian.tar.gz it'll be possible to produce an RPM for an app targetting MeeGo CE (say) and Harmattan12:52
RST38hJaffa: Not kind of trouble I had in mind12:52
*** Pathin_ has joined #maemo12:52
alteregoobs is better anyway12:53
RST38hJaffa: My fear is that's actual governing body (which is Intel, right?) will  start creating problems for Harmattan there12:53
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo12:53
RST38hJaffa: Would be much safer to keep things at maemo.org12:53
alteregoRST38h: neah, they'll have very little to say on the matter.12:53
*** Zucca has joined #maemo12:53
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo12:54
*** Pathin_ has quit IRC12:55
alteregoIt's just an obs target, tbh12:57
JaffaRST38h: The TSG & LF have already signed off on it12:57
*** Venemo has joined #maemo12:58
*** kama has quit IRC12:58
*** Termana has quit IRC12:58
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC12:59
alteregoI might setup, my own though :D12:59
Venemogood morning13:00
jonwilSo for display of Cell Broadcast SMS messages, I think we need a homescreen widget similar to the operator name widget that displays the cell tower name13:01
jonwili.e. channel 5013:01
*** eMHa has quit IRC13:01
jonwilsome sort of notification widget like the one that shows when you get a regular SMS13:01
alteregoYay, another widget that'll drain battery :P13:01
jonwilYou dont HAVE to have cell broadcast support if you dont want to13:02
alteregoI know. So?13:02
alteregoJust saying :P13:02
robbiethe1stWell, actually, a properly designed widget should only update when the home screen is shown, so...13:04
robbiethe1stonly power's taken when the home screen's active and screen's on13:04
alteregorobbiethe1st: it should, but that's clearly not what they're talking about here ..13:07
robbiethe1stum, really?13:07
jonwilThis is a status bar widget13:07
jonwillike the operator name13:07
jonwilor the battery meter13:07
*** marthd has joined #maemo13:08
* alterego starts sketching out USSD menu support13:08
robbiethe1stWell, still, only draining power when the window isn't maximized, and(more importantly) when the screen is on13:08
alteregoWe'll see13:09
jonwilWhat are you planning to do with USSD?13:09
alteregoImplement it13:09
alteregoUSSD is missing from the meego reference dialer13:09
jonwilok, so does the cell modem and ofono telephony stack support the right bits?13:09
alteregoIt's a pretty easy feature to add, but meh.13:09
alteregoOh course it does.13:10
*** cpt_nemo has quit IRC13:10
alteregoOf ..13:10
jonwilwhat is USSD anyway?13:10
alteregouniversal service subscriptions osmething or other13:10
alteregoBasically, it handles the *#0000# codes13:11
jonwiloh ok13:11
alteregoSome can report your balance, others you can configure things, like call waiting, diverts, etc.13:11
alteregot.m.o has been _really_ boring since the N913:13
*** tackat has quit IRC13:13
*** Spydemon has quit IRC13:14
*** tackat has joined #maemo13:17
*** kama has joined #maemo13:18
*** kama has quit IRC13:21
*** Zucca has quit IRC13:22
*** BCMM has joined #maemo13:23
alteregoNew theory, the "Sea Ray" demonstration by Elop was him trying to save his job?13:25
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo13:26
*** Spydemon has joined #maemo13:26
*** retro|cz has joined #maemo13:27
*** buntfalke has quit IRC13:30
*** Zucca has joined #maemo13:30
*** lxp has joined #maemo13:32
cloudyLights~seen khertan13:33
infobotkhertan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 19h 21m 10s ago, saying: 'must go on .... bye everyone'.13:33
*** Venemo has quit IRC13:34
*** lxp1 has quit IRC13:36
*** unixSnob has quit IRC13:38
*** croppa has quit IRC13:38
*** cpt_nemo has joined #maemo13:44
*** Zahra has quit IRC13:46
*** MrPPS has quit IRC13:47
*** MrPPS has joined #maemo13:47
*** MrPPS has joined #maemo13:47
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo13:49
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC13:49
*** eMHa has joined #maemo13:51
*** MadViking has joined #maemo13:53
cloudyLights~seen MohammadAG?13:55
infobotmohammadag is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 405 messages. Is idling for 8h 7m 39s, last said: 'or Windows 8'.13:55
cloudyLights MohammadAG: ping13:55
jonwilBINGO, my cell broadcast dumper WORKS13:55
jonwilNow tommorow I can go out and run it and get lots of logging of cell towers13:55
cloudyLightsshow me pls13:55
jonwilshow you what?13:55
cloudyLightsI also need to know what tower I am using now13:56
cloudyLightsto wake me up on the bus as I come near13:56
cloudyLightscan you share the code?13:56
jonwilnot very user friendly yet13:56
jonwilonce the proper UI comes out, it will be good13:56
*** Zucca has quit IRC13:56
jonwilbut right now its just so I can test some stuff13:56
cloudyLightsjonwil: I dont need a UI13:57
cloudyLightsis it in C?13:57
jonwilits not very clean and uses hacked up ofono code13:57
jonwilso its not really distributable yet13:58
cloudyLightsno problem with me13:58
cloudyLightsI am also hacking my way with the N90013:59
cloudyLightshmm.. the N900 supports ofono?14:00
cloudyLightswas thinking only meego does that14:00
cloudyLightsalso saw somthing about tower info in the qT14:01
psycho_oreosthere's a few apps for that in extras-devel14:01
cloudyLightsbut its a cheap way to know where yu are14:01
cloudyLightscheapper then gps14:01
cloudyLightsbut ofono is the right way I think14:01
jonwilThats the code that I am using14:01
*** Spydemon_ has joined #maemo14:02
jonwilYou need to link it to the smsutil.c and util.c files from ofono14:02
cloudyLightso yuo read it from dbus!14:02
cloudyLightsso I can do it in python14:02
jonwilPlus you also need the libsms patch that has been posted to the mailing list14:02
cloudyLightsas I would preffer14:02
jonwilif you have the right libsms changes from the -devel mailing list (the 3 bytes14:03
jonwilthen my code will work14:03
*** Spydemon has quit IRC14:04
jonwilcool, my code works, it dumped 2 different tower names14:05
jonwilI am obviously fairly similar distances from both towers14:06
*** Dibblah has left #maemo14:06
jonwiltommorow I go as far as the bus/train system can take me14:06
jonwilwith logging running14:06
jonwiland hope I get lots of tower names14:06
jonwiland also that my cbsms.log file doesnt fill up my /var memory space14:06
merlin1991jonwil: write to mydocs?14:07
jonwilhmmm good call14:07
*** Zucca has joined #maemo14:07
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo14:08
jonwilok, just need to test it now :)14:10
jonwilmake sure it writes where it needs to14:10
jonwilok, works14:12
jonwilwrites to /home/user/MyDocs14:12
jonwilno worries about running out of space in an important place14:12
DocScrutinizer(<alterego> USSD is missing from the meego reference dialer) HAHAHA again?!14:14
jonwilNow I can go out tomorrow with my dumper running and my phone in my pocket/bag and I will get a nice fat log14:14
jrayhawkotwieracz: Squeeze seems to work okay on Deblet aside from udev, which should be held or downgraded to lenny.14:14
*** Arkenoi has joined #maemo14:15
DocScrutinizerU(ser, nsolicited) Supplementary Service Data14:15
DocScrutinizerand no *#0000# is for sure sth else14:16
DocScrutinizer*#111# is a correct example14:16
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo14:16
*** mardi has joined #maemo14:17
DocScrutinizercloudyLights: you definitely don't want to use SMSCB for location services, as it's sometimes only sent every other minute, sometimes even more infrequently14:18
DocScrutinizerhave a look into netmon app, and see how CID is queried from modem - that's WAY faster and more reliable than SMSCB14:19
alteregoDocScrutinizer: actually no, even codes that are completely locally are usually handled by the modem, like *#06#14:19
*** NIN101 has quit IRC14:19
alteregoAnd they are handled in the same way as anyother USSD ;)14:19
*** Necc has joined #maemo14:20
DocScrutinizernot USSD though14:20
DocScrutinizer*#06# never14:20
alteregoThere is literally no distinction14:20
DocScrutinizerit's a local SSC14:20
alteregoThere really isn't a difference.14:20
DocScrutinizerfor SSC N900 maemo needs starhash enabler, while USSD (>2 digits) works without14:21
alteregoFor all you or anyone knows, the calls are going to the network, just because they get interpreted by the modem is by-the-by14:21
DocScrutinizeruhuh! even14:21
alteregoBut meh, whatever :)14:21
DocScrutinizeralterego: sorry, but on that topic this level of discussion is way off the facts14:21
DocScrutinizerthere's a clear distinction between SSC and USSD14:22
DocScrutinizerand *#0000# is no true USSD at all14:22
DocScrutinizer*#06# is even a SSC and no USSD, and it's also no OTA *service* code14:23
alteregoIn related news, is *#0000# a GSM spec?14:23
alteregoI know 06 is required,14:23
jrayhawkotwieracz: the dist upgrade took a mere seven hours!14:23
SpeedEvilI've done *#06 with no service14:23
DocScrutinizer*#0000# is Nokia14:23
alteregoYeah, that's what I thought14:23
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: as *#06# is a local pseudo code14:24
*** andre__ has joined #maemo14:24
*** andre__ has quit IRC14:24
*** andre__ has joined #maemo14:24
alteregoI used to have a list of all of these codes, but can't remember where I put them, or if they're even still on any HDD somewhere.14:24
SpeedEvilyes, I know.14:24
* alterego listens to the engadget podcast14:25
alteregoThis should be a laugh14:25
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo14:28
*** jhb has joined #maemo14:32
DocScrutinizermhm, interested in SMSCB in python, anyone?14:35
*** rd has joined #maemo14:38
jonwilnice one :)14:40
DocScrutinizeradding a notifier14:45
DocScrutinizerpython - anybody help me out?14:46
DocScrutinizer  File "./", line 5414:46
DocScrutinizer    elsif channel == fromchannel:14:46
DocScrutinizer                ^14:46
DocScrutinizerSyntaxError: invalid syntax14:46
DocScrutinizeroooh thanks14:47
jacekowskiyeah, so it is working14:48
DocScrutinizerjonwil fixed it :-)14:49
DocScrutinizer3 byte hack14:50
DocScrutinizermoo moh14:50
jonwilI found the 3-byte patch to libsms14:50
DocScrutinizerbrilliant work14:50
MohammadAGJaffa, what about libs and such? I don't get where they'll end up14:50
*** chadi has joined #maemo14:51
*** NishanthM has joined #maemo14:51
JaffaMohammadAG: What do you mean? They'll end up in the repos14:52
MohammadAGJaffa, so it'll work in the same way as -devel14:52
*** kW_ has joined #maemo14:53
*** rd has quit IRC14:54
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC14:54
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I'm failing epically on teaching busybox to patch three bytes in a binary. --- how's about *you* publish that executable like: f=fopen("/usr/lib/", "r+"), fseek(f, 0xddf6,SEEK_SET), write(f, "\0x53",1), close(f)14:58
MohammadAGIn other news, you can't downgrade N950s14:59
jonwilyeah good call, I can write that14:59
DocScrutinizerjonwil: it's your patch, yur fame :-)14:59
*** mariob has joined #maemo14:59
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo14:59
MohammadAGhow far can binary patching be taken?15:00
alteregoHow do you extract the fiasco image from the N950 firmware?15:00
DocScrutinizertill online hot kernel upgrades ;-P15:00
Hurrianalterego flasher -F emmc/img.bin -u=dir15:01
MohammadAGalterego, run it without an N950, you'll find it in /tmp/selfextract15:01
DocScrutinizerthere's a whole company earning money with that15:01
MohammadAGdon't CTRL+C, it cleans up15:01
*** NIN101 has quit IRC15:01
alteregoMohammadAG: sweet, yeah I was kust wondering where it put it's tmp files ;)15:01
*** klasu__ has quit IRC15:01
DocScrutinizerhihi, had a similar issue with my own cleanup, for that 3byte patcher15:02
*** Gorroth has quit IRC15:02
*** eMHa has quit IRC15:02
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo15:03
*** jhb has quit IRC15:03
*** Rhoruns has quit IRC15:07
*** Hurrian has quit IRC15:07
*** tackat has quit IRC15:07
*** mariob has left #maemo15:07
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC15:07
*** wazd_ has quit IRC15:08
*** GNUtoo|laptop has joined #maemo15:08
*** eMHa has joined #maemo15:08
*** woodong50_______ has joined #maemo15:09
Juozapasis there any way to see vimeo videos on browser?15:09
*** Spydemon_ has quit IRC15:10
*** andre__ has quit IRC15:11
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo15:12
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC15:12
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo15:14
*** tackat has joined #maemo15:16
*** Gorroth has joined #maemo15:16
*** piggz has joined #maemo15:16
povbotBug 12292: Crashing on changes in icons grid.15:17
mvaanyone has this thing? :)15:17
woodong50_______what thing15:20
*** woodong50_______ has quit IRC15:22
*** Spydemon_ has joined #maemo15:22
*** Venemo has joined #maemo15:25
jonwilso yeah tonight I will finish cloning hald-addon-bme (well cloning minus all the syslog calls which dont really matter :P)15:27
jonwilthen someone can take my clone and adapt it to work right on the hardware with no libbmeipc in the way15:28
*** Openfree^ has joined #maemo15:30
*** NishanthM has quit IRC15:33
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo15:37
*** lxp has quit IRC15:38
*** onen|openBmap has joined #maemo15:38
Venemojonwil, what is hald-addon-bme?15:39
JaffaMohammadAG: No, it'll work the same way as -testing. Devel is replaced with personal home repos, like PPAs15:39
RST38hWhat are personal home repos?15:41
VenemoJaffa, you referring to Harmattan?15:41
MohammadAGRST38h, OBS15:41
RST38hYou mean, if I am using 10 packages from -devel, I will have to enable 10 repos?15:41
JaffaRST38h: Each person with an OBS account gets something like
MohammadAGif they're by one devel each15:41
JaffaRST38h: Roughly, yes.15:42
FIQ|n900that seems way too overkill15:42
JaffaFIQ|n900: Why?15:42
RST38hJaffa: Umgh.15:43
JaffaWhat's the overhead?15:43
RST38hNo single -devel repo isn't good =(15:43
JaffaFIQ|n900: And, more to the point, how do you track one piece of s/w in development whilst tracking the end-release of others?15:43
RST38hI mean, where will we all shit?15:43
VenemoRST38h, you can shit wherever you want to15:44
MohammadAGeach person will have a toilet on their own15:44
VenemoMohammadAG :D15:44
RST38hYes, but if I collect shit, will I have to become the toilet bandit? =)15:44
VenemoRST38h, yep15:44
MohammadAGmore like the toilet collector15:45
RST38hNaaah, please bring back the -devel15:45
VenemoMohammadAG :D :D15:45
MohammadAGJaffa, can it do debs as of now?15:45
MohammadAGalso, Harmattan's Qt seems buggy15:45
robbiethe1stSeems like dependancies would be a nightmare...15:45
FIQ|n900i understand your point but i still think it's better to just have them clearly seperated, maybe with -dev suffix to prevent the common problem with -devel in maemo where packages likes to update to devel version when enabling it15:45
*** andi3 has quit IRC15:46
JaffaMohammadAG: X-Fade has been working on it all week, since the SDK was unveiled. Not sure how far from completion it is. Didn't sound like far.15:46
*** Termana has joined #maemo15:46
robbiethe1stFIQ: apt-pinning. You'd just need to have the default set with a very low priority on -devel so it won't auto-upgrade15:46
FIQ|n900Yes, i know15:47
*** andi3 has joined #maemo15:47
FIQ|n900But still, why having seperate repositories for every single package/application?15:47
robbiethe1stI agree with that15:47
robbiethe1stOne repo + apt-pinning's a better idea15:47
FIQ|n900And god knows what happens if something in the "dev" area depends on something else in same area15:48
robbiethe1stthat way dependancies can be calculated.15:48
robbiethe1stRepos are supposed to be basically self-contained, or at least additive15:48
RST38hAFAIK, no15:48
robbiethe1sti.e. main, universe, multiverse etc.15:49
RST38hno direct requirement of this kind15:49
RST38hah,you mean Ubuntu repos15:49
robbiethe1stOr debian, but the same concept stands15:49
robbiethe1stThere was a free/non-free section at least15:49
JaffaThis approach *has* worked well for MeeGo so far (not many apps, of course) and - more importantly - Ubuntu.15:49
FIQ|n900all distros i've used have something like that15:49
FIQ|n900none had such thing15:49
robbiethe1stand you can bet the non-free stuff relied on free stuff as well15:49
robbiethe1stPPAs are only OK when the owner of the distro CBF to add random packages, or allow others to add them, like in Ubuntu15:50
robbiethe1stmost stuff makes it in, sure, but...15:50
*** Roomerlol has joined #maemo15:50
MohammadAGI'm more interested in why Sociality fails to start, when it works on all Qt devices15:51
MohammadAG/usr/bin/meego-run: line 30:  2435 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) "$@"15:51
*** Venemo has quit IRC15:52
* FIQ|n900 tried out MeeGo a bit yesterday and today15:52
*** Openfree^ has quit IRC15:52
FIQ|n900"meego isin't in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported" noooes15:53
*** eMHa has quit IRC15:53
FIQ|n900isn't* lol15:53
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC15:53
*** dvarnes has quit IRC15:53
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC15:53
MohammadAGsu root and use password meego15:54
*** eMHa has joined #maemo15:54
*** ced117 has joined #maemo15:55
*** Venemo has joined #maemo15:55
*** Atarii has joined #maemo15:55
*** lxp has joined #maemo15:57
*** mr_jrt has joined #maemo15:57
*** eMHa has quit IRC15:57
*** Arkenoi has quit IRC15:58
FIQ|n900does the APN settings work at all btw?15:59
*** Arkenoi has joined #maemo15:59
FIQ|n900(i.e. can you do networking with 3G yet?)15:59
*** eMHa has joined #maemo15:59
*** dailylinux has quit IRC16:00
MohammadAGnot sure, ask on #meego-arm16:02
* divan finally succeeded with music identifying app using echoprint codegenerator on N900 =) 16:02
divanIt just recognized Radiohead song by 25 seconds recorded with n900 microphone16:03
Jaffadivan: Cool16:03
JaffaMohammadAG: Have you installed Harmattan Platform SDK on top of Fremantle in Scratchbox? How did you do it - did the installer sort it all out properly?16:03
JaffaThe qemu image is *far* too slow to be useful for development :-(16:04
MohammadAGJaffa, I used javispedro's notes16:04
*** licensed has joined #maemo16:04
*** licensed has joined #maemo16:04
lcukJaffa, why?16:04
lcukmake it work fast there etc :P16:05
MohammadAGthis is annoying though
MohammadAGthere's no reason for it to do that, besides the Harmattan Qt being buggy16:05
VenemoMohammadAG, MAssembly: Stylesheet missing "/usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/sociality/style/sociality.css"16:06
Venemothat tells something16:06
MohammadAGnot a reason to segfault Venemo16:06
MohammadAGthe errors following that are more interesting16:06
Venemothe X error is always a reason to segfault16:07
MohammadAGnope, seems to happen a lot16:07
Venemowell, at my brief experience with Xlib, when I do something bad, it gives me an X error and crashes.16:07
Venemoheh, how ridiculous is that16:09
MohammadAGVenemo, but that works :P16:09
MohammadAGSociality doesn't16:09
Venemoseems that the QMaemo6Style is buggy crap16:09
MohammadAGif I gdb it, it shows something about sensors, which I don't even use16:09
MohammadAGJaffa, does Mobility work for you?16:10
*** wicket64 has joined #maemo16:11
* FIQ|n900 actually managed to compile Lua (as a test of advanced C/C++ compiling) successfully after his tries of compiling node.js, so whatever the problem is/was, it wasn't related to the SDK installation16:13
Venemohow weird16:13
*** dailylinux has joined #maemo16:13
MohammadAGhmm, /me tries to skip the login window16:13
MohammadAGit works! :D16:14
MohammadAGSeems like QWebView is buggy16:14
MohammadAGhmm, scrolling seems slow int he SDK16:15
MohammadAGbut at least it's working16:15
Jaffalcuk: I'll assume you haven't tried it. There's nothing I can do in my code to make it faster.16:16
MohammadAGSociality looks surprisingly nice in the SDK16:16
MohammadAGthe gray bar needs to be removed though16:16
JaffaMohammadAG: Not tried Mobility beyond Sensors yet.16:17
MohammadAGJaffa, seems like a QWebPage always segfaults16:17
JaffaMohammadAG: Grey bar is fixed with     app.setProperty("NoMStyle", true);16:17
MohammadAGJaffa, does that make the app lose the QStyle?16:18
MohammadAGit's not QML16:18
JaffaMohammadAG: No idea if it loses the QStyle16:18
FIQ|n900is there a standalone flash player for N900?16:18
FIQ|n900tried to google it a bit, but failed16:18
MohammadAGI dislike how there's no X button in the window manager16:20
MohammadAGand dialogs don't work in the SDK16:20
FIQ|n900microB works fine, but i want proper fullscreen16:20
MohammadAGI'll package it up and ship to, maybe qgil can prove otherwise on a device16:20
MohammadAGFIQ|n900, there's an app, don't remember it's name16:21
FIQ|n900oh, think i found something16:21
MohammadAGit was for flash games afaik16:22
FIQ|n900what are you thinking of then?16:22
Macerheh jk16:22
FIQ|n900yes, it's a game i want to play :p16:23
MohammadAGthat's not flash16:23
MohammadAGI don't remotely remember the name :/16:23
FIQ|n900too bad16:24
FIQ|n900kmplayer actually worked, but the resolution seems like 640x480 for some reason16:25
*** javispedro has joined #maemo16:25
FIQ|n900so the text is too small16:25
Termanajavispedro, morning16:27
FIQ|n900no, that thing didn't work well at all16:27
Maceryou can't run it through a resize filter?16:27
FIQ|n900actually better perfomance but no cursor16:27
Macerand run it at a lower res?16:27
Macerto make it bigger16:27
FIQ|n900Macer, nvm as kmplayer didn't worked well at all16:28
*** wicket64 has quit IRC16:28
FIQ|n900(the size is no problem in microB)16:28
*** ekce86 has joined #maemo16:28
javispedroJaffa: MohammadAG: the gray bar at the bottom is supposed to show back/close buttons16:28
*** valdyn_ has quit IRC16:29
*** Termana has quit IRC16:29
FIQ|n900MohammadAG, flashlauncher?16:29
javispedrono idea why it does not. either it is a bug (it should assume lack of mtf atoms means it is a standard app, instead of showing empty bar) or just part of the usual hate versus non MTF apps.16:29
*** wicket64 has joined #maemo16:29
*** Termana has joined #maemo16:32
MohammadAGQ_WS_MAEMO_6 is used for Haramattan right?16:32
VenemoI think so16:32
*** Termana has quit IRC16:33
JaffaMohammadAG: No16:34
*** valdyn has joined #maemo16:36
*** Zahra has joined #maemo16:36
VenemoJaffa, #define MEEGO_FLAVOR=harmattan ---> this is not even valid C++16:36
*** wicket64 has quit IRC16:37
javispedroit is valid on the gcc cmd line (as -D) , which is what probably the guy was subconsciously thinking16:37
JaffaVenemo: What javispedro says.16:37
JaffaIt's pretty easy to parse "You can check for [a] #define [of] MEEGO_FLAVOUR [which] = 'harmattan'"16:38
*** Termana has joined #maemo16:40
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo16:40
* Termana rages16:40
Venemodoes #if MEEGO_FLAVOUR == "harmattan" even work?16:40
* javispedro is interested in this MEEGO_LOW_POWER_MODE stuff =)16:40
javispedroVenemo: usually, the two defines exist, so you can compare them as ints16:41
MohammadAGheh, what's CTR:L+Z again? SIGSTOP?16:42
ShadowJKjavispedro, if it's like symbian it kills keyboard leds and locks screen brightness to lowest16:42
alteregoInteresting, so the N950 comes with the SDK installers on the eMMC :D16:42
MohammadAGalterego, online installers16:42
MohammadAGcheck the size, 23MBs16:42
* MohammadAG waits for pffft16:42
alteregoYeah, I noticed.16:42
alteregoThat is a bit lame.16:42
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yes16:42
javispedroMohammadAG: what size is the MyDocs partition?16:42
MohammadAG4GBs for /16:43
MohammadAG2GBs for /home16:43
javispedrobut total is not known?16:43
MohammadAGrest is "mmc2"16:43
DocScrutinizermoo javispedro16:44
javispedromoo DocScrutinizer16:44
MohammadAG_MEEGOTOUCH_VISIBLE_IN_SWITCHER(CARDINAL) = 0 <-- at least we know how to hide windows now16:44
MohammadAG64 afaik16:44
DocScrutinizeryou noticed jonwil patched the for good? :-D
javispedroShadowJK: I think this is the infamous "alwayson" lock screen on N9 with AMOLED16:45
*** wicket64 has joined #maemo16:45
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ^^16:45
MohammadAGis the settings app QML?16:45
MohammadAGShadowJK, power saving mode on Symbian^3 also switches from 3G to 2G16:46
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: and I failed epically on trying to patch those 3 bytes in via a messybox script ;-P16:46
*** BCMM has quit IRC16:46
javispedrono wonder16:46
ShadowJKMohammadAG, lol, awesome16:46
javispedrobut there must be some binary patching tool around16:46
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC16:46
VenemoI wonder how that "alwayson" lock screen will work on the N950's TFT LCD16:47
RST38hHello, gentlemen16:47
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I also thought there must be a binary mode in patch, or another tool for that, but none16:47
ShadowJKVenemo, no :)16:47
* RST38h is back after an exciting battle with the lighting fixture16:47
VenemoShadowJK ?16:47
ShadowJKVenemo, well it "works", but eats power?16:47
RST38hjavispedro, ShadowJK: Moo.16:47
VenemoShadowJK, ah...16:47
VenemoShadowJK, so the N950's lock screen will work differently?16:48
javispedroMohammadAG: re _MEEGOTOUCH_VISIBLE_IN_SWITCHER. It's the opposite thing actually.16:48
*** wicket64 has quit IRC16:48
javispedroMohammadAG: it it set by swipeswitcher when application is currently visible on switcher16:48
ShadowJKVenemo, i guess that depends on whether they gave it a custom lock screen or used the same as N9? It's not like they wouldn't be allowed to cripple batterylife of a non-consumer device ;p16:48
MohammadAGjavispedro, what happens if you set it manually?16:48
javispedroyou confuse MTF =)16:49
RST38hBoth N9 and N950 will use identical UI16:49
DocScrutinizerVenemo: depending on how good their abstraction and their platform adaption is, they might redirect the onscreen indications to the notifier LED, N950 seems to have same like N90016:49
RST38hThis is what Nokians said16:49
javispedromoo RST38h16:49
MohammadAGso it flips the M 180 degrees and spells WTF, nice16:50
RST38hAnd if someone points me to an example of native OpenGLES1 initializationfor Android, I would be grateful16:50
Venemoso the N950's standby time will be crippled by the always on display?16:50
MohammadAGjust kill the display :p16:50
ShadowJKVenemo, to 12 hours or so, I'd imagine16:50
javispedroMohammadAG: MTF uses that Atom to see "MOnDisplayChangeEvent"s16:50
DocScrutinizerRST38h: doesn't mean the framework itsaelf must be platform agnostic, it might adapt16:50
infobotjavispedro meant: MohammadAG: MTF uses that Atom to send "MOnDisplayChangeEvent"s16:50
RST38hVenemo: N950 has got a lock button, hasn't it?16:50
VenemoRST38h, I dunno, I don't have one yet16:51
MohammadAGthe lock button sends you to the screensaver16:51
MohammadAGat least on the N816:51
RST38hMaybe it is going to be in the settings, like in Symbian?16:51
MohammadAGand N8616:51
RST38h"Use standbyscreen - Yes/No"16:51
mvaf**ken garage >_<16:51
MohammadAGjust blank the screen with sysfs :P16:51
mvai've just create project for zsh (to maintain it's builds for maemo) with SVN except of git. Due to registration script reset it on SVN on any error or warning >_<'16:53
Venemoso... bottomline, this is something we will have to hack around when we get our N950s16:53
mvacrap! crap! crap!16:53
hiemanshuVenemo: if we get out N950s :/16:53
ShadowJKcan't you obnoxiously lucky people to get N950 go make your own club and room somewhere16:53
ShadowJKand stop taunting us normal people who can't get it even if we go set Nokia HQ on fire?16:54
hiemanshuShadowJK: I applied for one, but I hope to get one, there is only hope :/16:54
alteregoThe only reason I'd like an N950 is because it's collectable :P16:54
ShadowJKI'd want N950 because it looks like N900 upgrade16:54
ShadowJKand N9 is not16:54
alteregoOh, and to annoy ShadowJK by getting 2 of them16:55
hiemanshuI want an N950 because well its a limited edition device ;)16:55
hiemanshualterego: if you do that, I will trace you down and kill you, take one and share the other one with ShadowJK :D16:55
alteregoI really don't think that'll happen.16:55
MohammadAGI want an N950 cause I don't want the N9 to suck at launch16:55
alteregoWith 2 N950s I'd have super powers.16:55
DocScrutinizertbh N950 would be interesting as an everyday device only if we could get N900 OS ported to it so we could install from extras-devel without any problems16:55
ShadowJKhiemanshu, actually I'd wanna get a team of angry geeks and go to Nokia's parking lot and remove the wheels from all their cars. See how they like their fucking sleek new cars.16:56
hiemanshuShadowJK: count me in :D16:56
VenemoDocScrutinizer, why would you want the N900's OS on it?16:56
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo16:56
hiemanshuShadowJK: I'll get spray paints16:56
RST38hShadowJK: You mean, you would like to further complicate the lives of already tormented Nokia employees?16:56
DocScrutinizeror if we got critical mass of N950 users, but that's obviously not going to hapen16:56
mvabtw, anybody knows, if i need to create project on garage for autobuilding and publishing package in devel repo? :)16:56
RST38hShadowJK: As if Elopocalypse weren't enough?16:56
SpeedEvilRST38h: Only the nicer cars.16:57
MohammadAGmva, no, just send to -devel directly16:57
SpeedEvilRST38h: Upper managment.16:57
hiemanshuand Elops cars16:57
*** FIQ has joined #maemo16:58
merlin1991sure you want to remove only the tires from elops cars?16:58
*** FIQ is now known as Guest8956416:58
Venemowhy the tires?16:59
hiemanshuelops cars and upper management16:59
Venemojust remove the buttons from it16:59
Venemoand install windows on the car16:59
DocScrutinizerVenemo: sure, See, this M6 chimera is an abomination for me. And I'd need all my apps around that I'm used to, not something from N9 repos that's poorly adapted to N950 per definitionem16:59
*** Guest89564 has quit IRC16:59
*** Guest89564 has joined #maemo16:59
*** Guest89564 has joined #maemo16:59
hiemanshuVenemo: take a nail gun, and shoot the tires16:59
hiemanshumuch easier to do16:59
*** Guest89564 is now known as FIQ16:59
MohammadAGCars already have Windows17:00
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC17:00
MohammadAGOMG IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!117:00
Cor-Ainew elevators have windows..17:00
RST38hThe "conspiracy" clause seems to be coming up almost as often as the "hitler" clausenowadays17:00
hiemanshuRST38h: everything is a conspiracy17:01
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake17:01
hiemanshuthe Rapture is a conspiracy17:01
TermanaPole's car17:01
RST38hThe Rapture is idiocy.17:01
RST38hThe rest is conspiracy.17:01
*** tommis has joined #maemo17:01
Termanadamn lag17:01
DocScrutinizerconspiracy isn't exactly the right word for sth SO obvious, no?17:01
RST38hDoc: It is easier to believe, especially for Americans, that the guy isn't simply stupid:)17:02
RST38hOr insane.17:02
DocScrutinizeror evil17:02
DocScrutinizerand not even hiding it17:02
RST38h"Evil" is subjective.17:02
TermanaHas anyone actually got an offer for an N950 yet? (Quim said clear cases would start to receive them before the application deadline)17:02
DocScrutinizerthe funny bit about conspiracies al the time is, if they were conspiracies then you'd not know about them17:03
MohammadAGno, there are no N950s, that's also a conspiracy17:03
* Termana passes around the tinfoil hats17:03
DocScrutinizersomething done publicly hardly is a conspiracy17:03
TermanaThe Gov'ment might be listenin in to yas17:03
RST38hDoc: Well, there are people who think that just by saying the right words at the right times they are fooling you17:04
RST38hDoc: US gov is full of them, as one example17:04
AtariiHey all. Is it recommended to install the Community SSU ?17:04
merlin1991Atarii: depends on how you want to use your device17:04
merlin1991cssu is in "testing" state17:04
*** robink has quit IRC17:05
Atariioh hey again merlin1991 thanks again for helping me last night :)17:05
MohammadAGjavispedro, you sure the ARMEL UI is faster?17:05
Atariimerlin1991 it's to be used as a dev device (not main phone), so I guess I'll go for it17:05
javispedroMohammadAG: seemed like so, then again my hmarttan_x86 sbox is not accelereted17:05
DocScrutinizerTermana: if MohammadAG has no notice yet, then I'd say either there's no shipping yet, or their definition of "clear case" is weird17:07
DocScrutinizerand afaik he got no notice yet17:07
javispedrothat we know of17:08
javispedroobviously, the mastermind behind the conspiracy is MohammadAG himself, who is keeping the single community N950 for himself.17:08
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I doubt I'm actually getting an N950, not sure why17:09
* DocScrutinizer is repositioning a few satellites17:09
MohammadAG<javispedro> that we know of <-- I don't think anyone's signing an NDA for a loaned device :p17:10
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I'm sure you get one before I do, and I know damn sure why I won't get one17:10
javispedroMohammadAG: if you doubt it, then who the hell is going to get one17:10
Venemoif anyone, then MohammadAG should get an N95017:10
alteregoTime to start splitting up maemo5 specifics in columbus17:11
MohammadAGLet's review who should get an N950 :P17:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, he's the reason for hostmode on the N90017:11
jonwilI certainly have no claim to one of the limited numbers of N950s17:11
MohammadAGjavispedro, platform hacking at its best17:11
MohammadAGVenemo/alterego, they're the reason I know Qt17:11
DocScrutinizerwell, the definition of useful contribution is not the common one, on meego loaner board17:11
Venemowe could use hostmode on the N950 as well I think17:11
alteregoUnfortunately, I think my MeeGo efforts almost work as a disqualification from getting a DDP17:12
alteregoironic really :)17:12
hiemanshuMohammadAG: then I am pretty sure I am not getting one "/17:12
MohammadAGalterego, how come?17:12
MohammadAGhiemanshu, what's your profile? :P17:12
alteregoThey're looking for app devs to fill the stores.17:12
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I have none :P17:12
hiemanshuwell, I did write/test some stuff, but no profile17:13
javispedroalterego: then again I think quim is exactly the right person to understand that sending a few for random hacking is not bad17:13
MohammadAGalterego, you can do apps, awesome ones, you just chose not to for the time being :P17:14
alteregoYes well ..17:14
alteregoI am starting to port Columbus to Harmattan now17:14
alteregoSo by the time I get an N950, my primary app will already be done I imagine :D17:14
alteregoThe scratchbox environment runs like crap on my machine though17:15
alteregoDon't know why17:15
*** FIQ has quit IRC17:15
* hiemanshu is working on getting quassel2go to run, and writing a new comic reader app17:15
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I have the hostmode gui bet tmo thread as my "project page" -quim wasn't impressed at all. Also it seemed to me he didn't even know what USB hostmode is and why it's a nice-to-have17:15
alteregoI need to think of a new "flag ship" app for me to write for Harmattan/MeeGo17:15
javispedroDocScrutinizer: why do you say he wasn't impressed?17:15
VenemoDocScrutinizer, wasn't impressed at all... how do you know that?17:15
alteregoColumbus was my Fremantly "flag ship" app, now I need something new for Harmattan17:15
DocScrutinizerthat's what an old fart reads between the lines of a lengthy discussion17:16
javispedrobah, you need to talk in person someday17:16
DocScrutinizernote bene the old fart is me ;-P17:17
VenemoDocScrutinizer, you are not old, neither are you a fart.17:17
DocScrutinizerI disagree17:17
* DocScrutinizer farts17:17
* alterego disagrees too17:21
alteregoI'm an old fart as well17:21
javispedrothough there are some comments by quim that scare17:22
Venemojavispedro, which comments are they?17:22
javispedro"The N950 is a very limited edition. At some point it is expected that N9 devices will be available, perhaps in bigger quantities and perhaps with more diverse criteria (I can't really promise anything). Maybe then there is a better chance for developers not aiming to work on apps for users."17:22
*** rd has joined #maemo17:22
alteregojavispedro: my point exactly.17:23
DocScrutinizerthat's too app centric17:23
alteregojavispedro: now I _hope_ he/they plan on giving a very small amount of those N950 to CE developers17:23
Venemoand what about what alterego has told us? alterego, you said that quim said that the recipients of N950s can keep the N950, is that right?17:23
javispedroalterego: "Maybe the CE for the N950 is not so relevant,..."17:23
javispedroalterego: there's shit for you too! =)17:23
RST38has long as you are doing something meaningfulwith it (C)Quim17:24
DocScrutinizeryou want to give your OS and frameworks a good rattle to see how solid they are, before you care exclusively about apps apps apps apps17:24
javispedroeither way, just read the thread:
SpeedEvilEspecially before you lock in the API hard for release.17:24
alteregoVenemo: I said that when the N9 is release there is an option to either trade the N950 for an N9 or keep the N95017:24
Venemojavispedro, I have read the thread, yes. there is very little meaningful stuff there17:24
Venemoalterego, yeah17:24
Venemoalterego, so at the end, this won't be a loan after all, right?17:25
Venemoso, it will be a loan, but we can choose to loan an N9 instead?17:25
javispedroVenemo: "In the meantime we will see what are the next steps based on demand, people intested in keeping the N950 vs jumping to the N9, etc."17:25
alteregoVenemo: it's not strictly a loan, you're right17:26
alteregoThat "no" was a mistake :P17:26
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo17:26
DocScrutinizerVenemo: N950 will be dead as stinking fish as soon as N9 rolls out17:27
FIQ|n900uh, why does firefox' site shows "Get for Android", "Get Firefox Home for iPhone" but i can't find the fennec for maemo download link?17:27
Venemoall right, but what if at the en I actually want an N950 as my everyday device17:28
alteregoI think what people have to remember about the N950 is, there will be _no_ support17:28
DocScrutinizernobody will care about developing apps in a way so you could use "your" N95017:28
alteregoFrom the looks of it, they might not even keep the firmware in line with the N917:28
DocScrutinizeryou bet they won't17:28
Venemowho cares? when MeeGo CE will become ready, I'll be happy to get rid of Harmattan17:28
*** andre__ has joined #maemo17:28
*** andre__ has quit IRC17:28
*** andre__ has joined #maemo17:28
alteregoSo the N950, as soon as the N9 comes out, will only be useful for MeeGo CE imo17:28
MohammadAGMGConfItem: Failed to activate configuration server: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct17:29
DocScrutinizerthat first means CE gets support for all the closed bits, and there are plenty on low level, on N950 I bet17:29
MohammadAGI wish there was someone with an N950 here on IRC17:29
Venemoboth N9 and N950 use almost the same chip as the N900, so there won't be much of a problem I imagine17:30
Venemobut, we shall wait and see17:30
FIQ|n900there was one here recently17:30
alteregoDocScrutinizer: already done17:30
DocScrutinizerVenemo: believe me there WILL be lots of problems17:30
SpeedEvilHarmattan on n900 - for dev - would be awesome.17:30
VenemoSpeedEvil, agreed17:30
alterego(except fm tx/rx which is being worked on)17:30
VenemoDocScrutinizer, for example?17:30
alteregoSpeedEvil: it would be awesome, but I think if that was possible it would be available17:31
DocScrutinizerall the drivers for the closed bits won't get updates or bugfixes17:31
alteregoFor the same reason the N950 is around17:31
*** C-S-B has quit IRC17:31
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I don't think that is entirely true17:31
alteregoDocScrutinizer: as long as we have any Nokia involvement in MeeGo CE, there will be people available to handle updates to the drivers.17:32
Venemoalterego, the reason why it isn't available on the N900, is ignorance. no techical reasons there methinks17:32
javispedroalterego: how are you working on it, do you have schematics?17:32
javispedroalterego: (re fmtx/rx)17:32
alteregoVenemo: I think maybe the lack of memory might have something to do with it ;)17:32
alteregojavispedro: it's being worked on inside Nokia, we need permission to make the drivers redistributable.17:33
Venemoalterego, well, Harmattan uses MTF, which on MeeGo CE can run on the N900's limited memory17:33
DocScrutinizerthey don't even have time for stupid thing like fix a bug in a fremantle lib, for which community delivers the patch already17:33
alteregoVenemo: don't confuse the N950 with MeeGo CE :P17:33
alteregoDocScrutinizer: N900 is dead :P17:33
DocScrutinizerwhat makes you think that *magical* involvement into CE will change things for N95017:33
Venemoalterego, MeeGo CE will run on the N900 and the N950 as well. and since MeeGo CE uses the same UX as Harmattan, conclusion is that Harmattan could run on the N900 as well17:33
alteregoDocScrutinizer: because it has done for the N900 wrt MeeGo CE17:34
alteregoVenemo: well, it doesn't.17:34
Venemoyes, but that's only for marketing reasons17:34
javispedroseems that the n950 application formatting bug it's fixed17:34
alteregoVenemo: just it could be a very heavy MTF for all you know.17:34
DocScrutinizerwe'll see17:34
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo17:34
Venemoyeah, we'll see soon enough17:35
*** tommis has quit IRC17:35
DocScrutinizerI don't think trollop will tolerate his employees "wasting their time for updating a dead OS for a dead platform"17:35
SpeedEvilAs long as all hte devs that get it aren't making angry birds clones.17:35
MohammadAG<alterego> DocScrutinizer: N900 is dead :P17:35
SpeedEvil(which is a valid task - but still)17:35
MohammadAGThat's why MeeGo's using it as the devel device then? :P17:35
alteregoMohammadAG: in the context of Nokia,17:35
SpeedEvilA valid and important task.17:35
MohammadAGthe N900 is far from dead17:36
*** dvarnes has joined #maemo17:36
alteregoDocScrutinizer: they've setup a permanent "meego hacker space" in a new factory in Tampere for Nokia people to work on what they want to work on when they have free time.17:36
Venemowith MeeGo, the N900 will have a long and happy life17:36
alteregoDocScrutinizer: as long as there are people in Nokia still interested, we'll still get the drivers we require for MeeGo CE17:37
DocScrutinizeralterego: good news17:37
DocScrutinizerbut you know about the lawyer issue17:37
MohammadAGalterego, in the context of Nokia the N900 was dead since PR1.317:37
alteregoMohammadAG: sure, I never put a starting time for it ;)17:37
alteregoI'm just saying the N900 outside of MeeGo CE is dead to Nokia17:38
alteregoNot that the device is dead, I still love the N90017:38
alteregoAnd I hope I have at the very least another happy 2-3 years with the device.17:38
alteregoHacking it to do whatever I feel like getting it to do :)17:38
alteregoLike, turning it into a wall mounted home automation controller.17:39
FIQ|n900i usually change device every 1½ year but with no clear successor to N900 i'll stay a little bit longer hoping for a MeeGo device w/keyboard, wherever it comes from17:39
* FIQ|n900 hopes he doesn't have to wait too long17:39
alteregoFIQ|n900: I change when a new device enthrawls me to get it :)17:39
alteregoI've had the N900 since Febuary last year.17:39
FIQ|n900and that usually end up being every 1½ year :P17:39
alteregoI'm getting an N8 next week to play with17:39
alteregoIn lieu of the N917:40
alteregoWhich I'll get when it's released, probably get two infact.17:40
FIQ|n900same here, but wanted it since oct the year before that17:40
* SpeedEvil ponders.17:40
FIQ|n900sold out everywhere lol17:40
VenemoI hope there will be a proper MeeGo device from one vendor on another17:40
FIQ|n900vendor doesn't count, as long as it is meego (or another nice linux distro for mobile phones popping up) and a hardware keyboard17:41
VenemoFIQ|n900 ++17:42
alteregoI'm not too fussed about a "MeeGo Device" from some vendor, what is more important to me is we get a device that is as open as what we've had with Nokias NIT line.17:42
alteregoSo flashable operating systems.17:42
jonwilyeah, give me a device with hardware keyboard, a full proper linux distro and a decent cellular chipset17:42
alteregoThe ability to run anything we want on them17:42
SpeedEvilalterego: Indeed17:42
Venemoalterego ++17:42
SpeedEvilalterego: It could come with WP717:42
FIQ|n900yeah, that's what i mean17:42
MohammadAGalterego, you won't like it :P17:42
SpeedEvil(though I don't think WP7 is slated for keyboards is it?)17:42
alteregoIf Vendor (X) comes along with a proper MeeGo device, but it's DRM locked down and no ability to install a vanilla MeeGo OS, I'm not buying :)17:43
jonwilThere are already WP7 handsets with physical keyboards17:43
Venemoalterego ++17:43
alteregoOut of principle it's unlikely I'll buy a device with Windows Phone on it, even if it can be wiped off the device completely.17:43
javispedrowhen vendor X is the only one left doing meego handsets, you WILL buy it even if it is closed as an android device =)17:43
SpeedEvilalterego: Even if it's unlocked by policy?17:44
alterego(Which is unlikely) I imaigne the boot loader that Windows Phone uses is completely incompatible with what we've had.17:44
alteregoSpeedEvil: N9 is likely the last phone I get from Nokia, next devices will be MeeGo or Android.17:44
FIQ|n900i liked the N900 because it was like the first phone i've ever seen that DIDN'T lock things down17:44
alteregoI see myself having to settle for a locked down device.17:44
SpeedEvilFIQ|n900: It's my second.17:44
jonwilIf HTC wasnt so crappy with releasing the GPL bits of their code (kernel etc) and if they didnt lock their phones down, I would probably have bought a HTC Desire Z17:44
FIQ|n900SpeedEvil, what was your first?17:44
SpeedEvilFIQ|n900: The first one kernel panicked on boot as there was no rootFS17:44
VenemoFIQ|n900 ++17:44
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: you should've seen OM FR17:44
SpeedEvilThat's how to distribute a phone to hackers!17:45
Venemoalterego, you and a locked device?17:45
Venemoalterego, I doubt that17:45
alteregoActually, I'll rephrase, the N9 is likely the last device I _buy_ from Nokia.17:45
DocScrutinizereven OM 197317:45
FIQ|n900SpeedEvil, nice :P17:45
jonwilI nearly bought a Nexus S17:46
jonwilbut it has no hardware keyboard, so no dice17:46
jonwilAt least Samsung seem to be the most open of the Android vendors17:46
FIQ|n900are we sure that N9 even will be free from locked-down-policy-fail?17:46
alteregoAndroid seems like a good way to go, if we can get a device that has its' drivers mostly open.17:46
alteregoInstalling MeeGo on most Android handsets seems quite plausible.17:47
wmaronealterego: most android devices have open drivers, minus graphics17:47
SpeedEvilOn an unrelated matter. Does anyone know if there is a published API for the NFC?//17:47
alteregowmarone: indeed.17:47
SpeedEvilOn the n917:47
wmaronethey're just coding disasters hiding in a tarball17:47
* wmarone is having his fill with the nook color17:47
alteregoOkay, installed the latest Qt SDK17:47
jonwilThe biggest problem with Android devices is all the closed-source userspace bits that are essential to the phone and unusable with anything other than Android17:47
FIQ|n900i.e. will it come with root access directly (or as easily accessible as on maemo)?17:47
alteregoIt said, (1.8G) it's used 2.4 ..17:47
*** Ionakka has joined #maemo17:48
jonwilSuch as say the telephony stack17:48
jonwilor the wifi userspace bits17:48
Venemoworst case, I will get myself a MeeGo tablet and a dumbphone17:49
jonwilEven the "open" Nexus S has binary blob for the graphics, binary blob for WiFi, binary blob for GPS, binary blob for bluetooth, binary NFC blob and binary cell modem/cell stack blob17:49
javispedroSpeedEvil: I've only seen nfc sharing plugin17:50
javispedroand I'm not even sure where...17:51
javispedroSpeedEvil: also: which maybe works.17:52
SpeedEvilBinary blobs - if with adequate kernel insulation layers, and good APIs are barely tollerable17:52
SpeedEviljavispedro: Thanks17:52
Venemowhat I don't understand is, why are closed drivers in the vendors' interest?17:53
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (NFC) I found the chip, and press rant about it17:53
DocScrutinizerno datasheet though17:53
alteregoAnd it's not the vendors that close them, it's the chipset manufactures17:54
SpeedEvilpress link?17:54
SpeedEvilIf you've got it handy17:54
DocScrutinizerlook at your page17:54
DocScrutinizerN950 ;-P17:55
SpeedEvilAh - OK. I am takng a break on it till money - I'll start figging throug stuff till then17:55
DocScrutinizerI messed sth up17:55
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC17:55
alteregoSo there's no Harmattan device simulator?17:55
Venemoalterego, price?17:56
* javispedro knows why on the n9 videos, when they "swipe" out the video, it is "wiped" instead of translated like any other app17:56
SpeedEvilInteresting questions are stuff like 'what does it do with a 'dead' n9 battery'17:56
*** Dibblah has joined #maemo17:56
DocScrutinizerOTA power17:56
DocScrutinizeror not17:56
SpeedEvilAnd can it be stopped doing that.17:56
DocScrutinizerYEAH indeed17:57
Venemoalterego, for one, why is it in Nokia's interest to close their drivers to that their devices can only be used with the operating systems of their choice. so why is this in their interest?17:57
SpeedEvilFor example - if you usually have it configured as a doorkey - can you easily turn that off.17:57
RST38hResearchers over in the land of the robot-obsessed have found a new, non-invasive way to control your hand while your brain recoils in horror.17:57
DocScrutinizerwell, some tin foil will do ;-P17:57
alteregoVenemo: Nokia don't close the drivers, the drivers are closed17:57
wmaroneVenemo: companies like Imagination close the drivres, and deliver pre-built ones to the vendor17:57
alteregoNokia buy the chips from a vendor that manufactures them, they say that these drivers have to stay closed.17:57
DocScrutinizertry NXP17:57
alteregowmarone: actually the do give the source17:57
DocScrutinizersometimes they are helpful17:58
alteregoNokia have the source for the SGX drivers.17:58
Venemoso why is this in the chip vendors' interest?17:58
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo17:58
wmaronealterego: depends on the size of the company buying the chip17:58
alteregoThey're just not allowed to distribute the source, what we do have, is the ability to _redistribute_ freely the binary versions of the driver.17:58
*** DrMongle has joined #maemo17:58
SpeedEvilVenemo: It's not particularly.17:58
DrMongle,19231/  army drone releases suicide note17:58
VenemoSpeedEvil, then why are they making it this way?17:58
SpeedEvilVenemo: It's simply that they have no incentive to make it open17:58
*** valdyn has quit IRC17:59
SpeedEvilVenemo: 99.9% of phone vendors don't give a shit.17:59
jonwilGiven that PowerVR is the clear #1 buy a far margin in the mobile space, there is no incentive for imagination to give out code17:59
DocScrutinizerOTOH publishing datasheets summons the patent trolls and whatnot else17:59
alteregowrt to SGX, that area of the market is so feirce with competition, maybe keeping the drivers closed is in their best interest.17:59
SpeedEvilAlso it may in princile give some control over the secondary market.18:00
Termanaalterego, pfft. That's nothing. Everyone has the SGX blob source code. Even I have it - here's a link to it:
VenemoI hope Intel's mobile chips will have their graphics chips too and they will have open drivers18:00
DocScrutinizermeh, as with schematics for hardware, you can RE the working principles for drivers18:00
jonwilBinary blobs are only adequate if they are compiled for the right runtime libraries (libc etc) and the right ABI/instruction set18:00
javispedroVenemo: Intel is doing SGX these days too18:00
wmaroneVenemo: intel's mobile chip division has already opted for SGX18:00
SpeedEvilIf you say that you only get a licence to the blob if you buy it through the official supplychain, then that is a big plus for chip vendors18:00
javispedrobecause for some reason their existing lowpower gfx chips are crap/underfunded18:00
DocScrutinizerlarge manufacturers have no problem to get 50 devices to kill them, also no problem to get 50 hackers to RE the drivers18:00
SpeedEvilAs it eliminates the secondary market to companies in the west18:01
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Bullshit.18:01
jonwilAnd the binary blobs for the Nexus S are compiled for Android rather than Linus18:01
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Recruiting 50 hackers is trivial.18:01
Termanajonwil, he's wife compiles all over him everyday18:01
alteregoTermana: I know you well enough to know that you're probably trying to link jack me :P18:01
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Recruiting 50 hackers skilled in ARM reverse engineering, and who have a clue as to how hardware works is very not trivial.18:01
jonwilI mean Linux18:01
VenemoTermana, I did click on that link.... damn.18:01
Termanahehe :p18:01
alteregoI was right18:02
alteregoPoor Venemo has to learn the hard way :P18:02
DocScrutinizerindeed, we only have 2.3 ones here in this channel18:02
javispedroVenemo: it is a great song, I'm starting to like it for some reason.18:02
SpeedEvilI know 7 opcodes!18:02
*** mujtaba has joined #maemo18:02
Termana.31 of a hacker? Is that 1 whole person without a beard?18:03
RST38hSpeedEvil: I know  better idea!18:03
SpeedEvilThe corrolory to 'given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow'18:03
RST38hSpeedEvil:Let us employ 100 wizards with Merlin at the helm!18:03
SpeedEvilIs that the eyes have to understand the area they're looking at.18:03
DocScrutinizerthe point with gfx drivers especially is they always cheat, and this isn't a fact you put on a press release18:03
SpeedEvilSee the openssh screwups.18:03
*** mujtaba has quit IRC18:04
*** mujtaba has joined #maemo18:04
jonwilI would LOVE to see either Intel or AMD/ATI start making a PowerVR competitor18:04
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC18:04
VenemoDocScrutinizer, cheat how?18:04
Venemojonwil, me too18:04
jonwilAMD/ATI would be perfect18:04
TermanaDocScrutinizer, in this instance the excuse "But everyone else does it, so it's totally cool man" would be absolutely fine18:04
DocScrutinizerVenemo: in several ways18:04
jonwilEspecially if it was as open as their desktop and laptop GPUs18:04
javispedrojonwil: both Intel and AMD _used_ to do PowerVR competitors18:04
javispedrojonwil: Intel = destroyed it and went PowerVR; AMD = Sold off the division18:05
jonwilI think PowerVR has too much market share for anyone to try and beat them18:05
Venemojavispedro, they're doing it still afaik. intel now engraves their GPUs onto the CPUs in the Core i3-5-7 afaik18:05
DocScrutinizerVenemo: e.g they may deliver less fps than they say they do, less resolution, artifacts you won't see without knowing about them, etc pp18:06
jonwilIntel makes desktop GPUs18:06
javispedroVenemo: Intel is more interested in competing with desktop gpus than mobile18:06
Termanajonwil, not entirely true for mobile. Snapdragon chipsets don't use PowerVR, and they seem to be doing fine.18:06
jonwilAbout their only competitors are Qualcomm (who are even MORE proprietary than PowerVR)18:06
jonwilor NVIDIA with their Tegra line18:06
jonwilalso closed18:06
Venemojavispedro, at their current "performance", intel is not competing with desktop GPUs18:06
javispedroTermana: jonwil: the other one is the ex-AMD mobile graphics division, now called the Adreno iirc18:06
javispedroVenemo: the fact that they suck at it is not relevant :D18:07
wmaronejavispedro: which is owned by Qualcomm18:07
Termanajavispedro, yeah, which Qualcomm owns18:07
jonwilIntel isn't trying to compete with the high-end GPU market18:07
jonwilthey are trying to produce mainstream GPUs for desktops and laptops18:07
TermanaI keep calling it snapdragon, but is that even what they call their newer chipsets?18:07
jonwilthat can do video playback, Windows 7 Aero hardware accelleration, web browsing and stuff18:07
wmaroneTermana: like the Exnyos?18:08
TermanaSoCs rather18:08
Venemojonwil, their "mainstream" GPUs can't run even the basic games18:08
*** rd has quit IRC18:08
*** playya has joined #maemo18:08
jonwilThey dont even try to make gaming GPUs18:08
* wmarone wants samsung to expose the PCIe lanes in the SoC18:08
javispedroalso, common knowledge says the Adrenos suck18:08
TermanaExynos is Samsung isn't it?18:09
TermanaUses Mali-40018:09
wmaroneTermana: yes18:09
Venemojonwil, they should18:09
wmaroneheh, I'm still waiting for raster's enlightenment based SLP distribution to see the light of day18:09
MohammadAGjavispedro, can you start any Qt app in the ARMEL target?18:10
javispedroMohammadAG: I think yes. Either way I wouldn't care much about ARMEL..18:10
VenemoMohammadAG, the ARMEL target is usually only for compiling18:10
*** sp3001 has joined #maemo18:11
*** rd has joined #maemo18:11
*** valdyn_ has joined #maemo18:11
alteregoDid someone say yesterday that the qemu rootfs is downloaded with the harmattan scratchbox installer?18:11
javispedrowhich mobile gfx chip designer would you bet has more changes to open their drivers18:11
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC18:11
MohammadAGVenemo, the UI starts on ARMEL, unlike fremantle18:11
alteregoWhere's the rootfs image so I can boot it with qemu?18:11
VenemoMohammadAG, interesting18:11
javispedroImgtec (PowerVR), ARM (Mali), nvidia (geforce sth), or Qualcomm (Adreno)?18:11
javispedroIMHO 1st ARM, 2nd is actually Imgtec.18:12
MohammadAGaloisiojr, ?18:12
MohammadAGerr, alterego18:12
jonwilI do know imgtech made some handwaving a while back about opening up their drivers18:12
jonwilAlthough it may be that they were talking about the kernel bits18:12
jonwiland not the userspace bits18:12
javispedroI saw that18:12
javispedroback then kernel (n900) was already open18:13
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo18:13
wmaronejonwil: they've done that, qualcomm has as well18:13
DrMonglen900 was great18:13
jonwilLooking at the Nexus S binary blobs, it looks like we have a binary firmware for a Broadcomm bcm4329, a binary GPS daemon and shared library, PowerVR blobs, a NXP .so for the Nexus NFC plus firmware and 2 .so files for the cell modem18:13
wmaronequalcomm tried to push their kernel changes upstream, and got rejected hard :)18:13
DrMongleespecially nokia spending a half million dollars to promote them to us18:13
jonwilI think the number of companies that still maintain binary kernel drivers is shrinking18:13
javispedrosomething interesting is that PowerVR is going to make a VAAPI compatible drop18:13
ShadowJKjonwil, yeah they just let them rot instead18:13
* DocScrutinizer throws in a sidenote that even Openmoko, though *dedicated* to openness, never managed to disclose the GFX docs18:14
jonwilI mean the number of companies that push binary drivers instead of source18:14
ShadowJKI didn't think powervr does anything that'd be useful in a vaapi context...18:14
jonwilThese days a lot of companies either open their source completly18:14
VenemoDocScrutinizer, why?18:14
jonwilor move the secret bits into userspace daemons and shared libs18:14
jonwiland release kernel code18:15
javispedroShadowJK: if they're releasing the blob it must mean so.... though I bet this is for atom chips.18:15
DocScrutinizerVenemo: the options to oick nice manufacturers were limited, and the NDA was like signed with blood18:15
*** I-C-Wiener has quit IRC18:15
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: Venemo: the options to pick nice manufacturers were limited, and the NDA was like signed with blood18:15
Venemobut why was it?18:16
DibblahHmm. That can't be right.18:16
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC18:16
jonwilThe #1 problem with PowerVR in the ATOM chips is the complete lack of ANY usable linux drivers18:16
jonwilAsk anyone trying to run linux on Polsburo hardware how hard it is to get graphics going18:16
DocScrutinizerVenemo: then there were also some poor decisions inhouse about which way to go about GFX18:17
Macerthey got graphics going?18:17
jonwilI think some people have said that the OpenMoko Freerunner would have been BETTER without a GPU at all18:17
DocScrutinizeras basically the S-Media glamo GFX was worse than the CPU direct FB ;-P18:17
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo18:18
DocScrutinizerbut it came with another interface which we needed to stick WLAN on18:18
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC18:19
*** mc_teo has joined #maemo18:19
ShadowJKS3C6410 seems to have leaked datasheets all over, and seems to have pretty usable GFX on its own :)18:19
jonwilBy far the 2 hardest parts to find for anyone doing a small-scale or "open" cell phone are the GPU and the cell modem18:19
DocScrutinizerand nobody did *ALL* the math before the damage was done18:19
*** Ionakka has quit IRC18:19
TermanaShadowJK, no publicly released drivers AFAIK, and still has blobs18:19
DocScrutinizerS3C64xx is quite another class than S3C2442 ;-D18:19
*** mc_teo` has quit IRC18:20
jonwilEven the OLPC project is having trouble finding an ARM SoC for their next model that is anywhere near open enough18:20
DocScrutinizerstill not as nice as OMAP in my book18:20
ShadowJKTermana, well, sure :P18:20
*** messerting has joined #maemo18:20
jonwilthe ARM OLPC will probably have to have a dumb framebuffer out of the box with some binary blobs available from somewhere non OLPC18:20
Venemojonwil, and OLPC agrees with that? hard to believe18:21
*** rd has quit IRC18:21
DocScrutinizerit's take it or leave it18:21
jonwilFact is, there IS no such thing as an open GPU in the ARM space18:21
jonwilThe only way you can get ANY graphics at all in an open way is with a dumb framebuffer18:22
DocScrutinizerthat's what they told me18:22
*** sp3001 has quit IRC18:22
Venemowhat is a "dumb framebuffer"18:22
jonwilsimple 2d output with no hardware acceleration18:22
Termanadumb was just being used as an adjective and not as apart of the noun18:23
Venemoin other words, software rendering?18:23
jonwilEven the PS3 linux setup only gave you a simple framebuffer18:23
javispedroI still think ARM is the one that has most chances at the moment for opening the usermode parts (though for now they are not doing it)18:23
jonwiland no GPU acceleration18:23
jonwilI also think ARM is most likely18:23
Venemoso, if there is need for an open GPU for ARM, why is it that neither of the chip vendors make one?18:24
ShadowJKIt's also that, even with documented hardware, there aren't that many people that can make an openGL driver out of it18:24
wmaroneVenemo: none of them care18:24
Macerdoesn't aerm just lic the dev of the soc?18:25
Macermeaning the companies tell arm what they need?18:25
DocScrutinizerthey can sell their chips without open drives as well18:25
javispedroShadowJK: does not help that it is a patent minefield18:25
jonwilIt may be that ARM dont want to open their blobs because they know that the moment they do, Imagination Tech, NVIDIA and others will order their patent lawyers to pour over every single line of code looking for even the tiniest thing they can use to sue18:25
jonwilAs for the comment about drivers being hard to write, go ask anyone working on the open ATI drivers how hard it is18:25
Maceri mean i only ask because if the "open community" is so hell bent on an open soc... buy one from arm :)18:25
jonwilAnd they have full vendor support and documentation18:25
DocScrutinizerARM is open, GFX is not ARM18:26
DocScrutinizera SoC has more than an ARM core18:26
Macerthen buy the lic from a gfx company18:26
Macerto open it18:26
Maceror have them dev one that is open18:26
Macermoney talks18:26
* Termana spits his non-existent coffee at Macer18:26
jonwilthe "open community" is not big enough for any vendor (ARM, ImgTech or otherwise) to care18:26
Macersure it is18:27
Macermoney talks... pay the right amount and tell them what you need and they will do it18:27
jonwilyeah money talks18:27
Termanamoney talks. Sure, do you have a couple of millions dollars to start with?18:27
DrMonglebut opening your source can also generate money18:27
TermanaAnd they will want you to cover future revenue18:28
Termanaand that fact your opening up all their IP18:28
MacerTermana: no.. but how long would donations take for that?18:28
Macerprobably not too long18:28
ShadowJKhow long does it take to collect half a billion..18:28
VenemoMacer, in that case, why hasn't it happened yet?18:28
MacerTermana: not really.. not if it is from the ground up open18:28
MohammadAGdivan, thanks for The echo nest, it looks awesome18:28
MacerVenemo: nobody tried?18:28
TermanaMacer, go forth and multiply my friend18:28
Maceror thinks it can be done18:28
Maceror even asked?18:29
Macer:) assumptions18:29
*** messerting has quit IRC18:29
TermanaIf you can do it, I will buy you a Lamborghini.18:29
javispedroa OpenSource Lamborghini!18:29
Macerrunning maemo on its car computer!18:29
DrMonglea n900 is kind of like a sports car18:30
*** messerting has joined #maemo18:30
DrMonglethat can transform18:30
Termanajavispedro, yeah well, I was kind of thinking... replica :p But I can arrange Maemo on it! :p18:30
divanMohammadAG, yep, I'm a excited about it as well. Will release app soon,18:30
ShadowJKActually there's an opengraphics project, they've been working on building an open graphics core.18:30
TermanaDrMongle, more than meets the eye?18:30
*** DrMongle has left #maemo18:30
VenemoTermana, Macer: maybe you're better off with MeeGo IVI than Maemo on that18:30
MacerTermana: or ask the gfx owner of the n900 how much for the lic18:30
ruskieShadowJK, don't forget openhardware and opencores ;)18:30
Macertheir biggest fear of course being the chinese18:30
ShadowJKThey have a board with a few FPGA.. costs about 1500 with developer discount ;)18:31
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: LOL that silicon dump?18:31
Macerand their knockoff replication capability18:31
MohammadAGdivan, any git repo?18:31
Macerchina ruined true open devices18:31
Macerrussia too but not as bad18:31
divanMohammadAG, not yet.18:31
*** rd has joined #maemo18:31
TermanaMacer, don't mess with me, did you see what I did to DrMongle up there? I merely spoke to him and that forced him to leave.18:31
VenemoMacer, "china ruined true open devices" -> why?18:31
SpeedEvilMacer: You need to not only buy the rights to an opensource GFX driver - it has to be a compelling driver that's actually worth vendors using18:31
wmaroneVenemo: "omg they'll copy our stuff!"18:32
MacerSpeedEvil: fair enough18:32
SpeedEvilMacer: Where vendors = the several people actually interested in putting that in silicon18:32
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo18:32
Venemowmarone, they are copying anyway18:32
divanMohammadAG, only a couple of screenshots :))
wmaroneVenemo: they may be, but that's no solace to the companies in question18:33
SpeedEvilMacer: and the cost/benefit has to be in that devices favour - if the non-open source is a fraction of a square milimeter smaller, or lower power, or ... it will get picked unless the benefits of that are outweighed by the lack of required licencing.18:33
DocScrutinizeryeah, you can get Nokla N950 already, from China X-P18:33
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, really? Url? :)18:34
Termanadivan, nice18:34
ruskierunning what? WM6.5?18:34
MohammadAGdivan, got a screenshot showing how the parsed data shows? :P18:34
DocScrutinizerthe_awsome_max.zn dunno, google for Nokia N95018:34
javispedro1.2 Ghz18:35
DocScrutinizerdual sim18:35
ruskiethey should just start rolling their own phones instead of calling them knockoffs18:35
divanMohammadAG, :) At the moment it's just QLabel saying "Artist - Song name" )) Will add nice UI as soon as finish everything else.18:36
*** mr_jrt has quit IRC18:36
DocScrutinizerthey got exactly one chipset and refrence design, and they throw it into whatever case and branding they see fit18:36
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo18:36
javispedrowatch that one18:36
*** mr_jrt has joined #maemo18:36
hiemanshuit even has a 12MP cam, I am getting one now!18:37
*** Diod has joined #maemo18:37
MohammadAGmeh, I have an MP3 player with a 25MP cam from China18:38
TermanaAt least the website has great recommendations!18:38
TermanaRelated Products: Hamburger Phone18:38
javispedroMohammadAG: can you eat it at least?18:38
hiemanshu*burp* best $700 ever spent18:39
Venemo[17:36] <DocScrutinizer> they got exactly one chipset and refrence design, and they throw it into whatever case and branding they see fit -> ???18:39
MohammadAGjavispedro, course you can18:39
jonwilI wish the western world had the guts to stand up to China for all the human rights violations and crap that goes on. Unfortunatly, there are 3 problems with that:First is that the western world has borrowed so much money (and continues to borrow so much money) from China that they cant afford to go after them18:40
jonwilafter all, you dont declare war on the country providing you with the money you need to pay the very soldiers who are fighting for you.18:40
alteregoNeat, my two core libraries for Columbus compile under Harmattan with no special additions :)18:40
keriojonwil: also guantanamo18:41
alteregoNext is to separate the maemo5 specific UX code from the generic columbus code, then create a new plugin thingy.18:41
jonwilSecond is that so much stuff is made in china (because no matter how much countries like Mexico, Brazil, India, Vietnam etc try, they cant beat the chinese on manufacturing and labor costs) that the west cant afford to say no to China.18:42
*** larsivi has quit IRC18:42
DocScrutinizerjonwil: indeed18:42
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC18:42
jonwilI guarantee you that if the US government EVER tried to do something about china (war, sanctions, whatever else) they would have the president of Wal-Mart on their ass as fast as his corporate jet could get him to DC18:43
ShadowJKactually some companies are already moving out of china to cheaper parts :P18:43
MohammadAG javispedro can you post the output of echo $SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD in the SDK?18:43
MohammadAGX86 target18:43
ShadowJKjonwil, well also China is the biggest creditor :P18:43
jonwilI already mentioned that :)18:43
ruskiehe already said that18:43
javispedroMohammadAG: unset18:44
*** psychologe has joined #maemo18:44
*** konttori_home has joined #maemo18:44
jonwilwith regards to manufacturing, what I want to know is why more US companies and retailers dont try to subsidise factories in Mexico and central america.18:44
MohammadAGjavispedro, /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set18:44
javispedroMohammadAG: doing what?18:44
MohammadAGmeego-arm appname18:45
SpeedEviljonwil: What's in it for them?18:45
javispedroMohammadAG: meego-arm???18:45
MohammadAGmeego-run, sorry, sleep deprivation18:45
javispedroMohammadAG: you are trying to run an armel binary for somer ason18:45
javispedroMohammadAG: run file on "appname"18:45
*** panaggio_ has joined #maemo18:46
jonwilThe advantage of manufacturing in central america is that that they dont need to follow the strict chinese rules (that e.g. require partnership with chinese companies)18:46
jonwilSo they wouldnt be giving all their valuable IP to to these chinese companies (many of whom are owned by or in bed with the chinese government)18:46
jonwilAlso the transport costs from Mexico are lower than those from China18:47
otwieraczjrayhawk: ping18:47
jonwilwhich would be an advantage'18:47
jonwilPlus, by making stuff in that part of the world, you could give those people jobs and make it far less likely that they will try to get jobs in the USA18:47
jonwilwhich may not matter to US companies18:47
jonwilbut it would be something the US government would care about18:47
SpeedEviljonwil: But absent governmental incentives - why would they?18:48
SpeedEvilThis is a major problem with free trade - you can't control what your companies do other than with the most blunt instruments18:48
jonwilAs mentioned, avoiding the need to give their IP to the chinese is one big reason for companies to investigate other countries18:48
*** psychologe has quit IRC18:49
jonwilThink about all those factories in china that make Nike shoes by day and at night make fake18:49
SpeedEvilOne concern I've heard is many south american workers are very much less productive.18:49
jonwilfake Nike shoos18:49
jonwilusing the same tooling and plant but cheaper materials18:50
SpeedEvilI don't know if that's true.18:50
ruskiehmm all the nike shoes I've had so far always had a Made in Vietnam18:50
jonwilif its not Nike, its others18:50
jonwilgolf clubs18:50
*** Termana has quit IRC18:50
jonwilThere is an awful lot of bootleg crap made in china18:50
*** gri has joined #maemo18:51
*** mardi has quit IRC18:51
hiemanshuwell almost everything is made in china these days18:51
ruskiewell most electronics atleast18:51
javispedroeven babies are made in china these days18:52
jonwilAbout the only thing that doesnt have a Made In China label on it these days are cars18:52
jonwilAnd even then, there are at least 3 chinese car companies trying to sell cars in Australia18:53
DocScrutinizerghost shifts are a know problem18:53
jonwilI am surprised we havent seen ghost shifts happening for electronics18:54
jonwilI guess the issue there is that no-one makes a el-cheapo repalcement for a TI OMAP18:55
jonwilwhereas el-cheapo replacements for whatever they make handbags or golf-clubs out of are easy to find18:55
wmaroneI imagine those are easier to make18:56
*** mardi has joined #maemo18:56
jonwilI posted my latest CBSMS stuff to the mailing list btw18:57
*** Venemo has quit IRC18:58
ShadowJKActually there have been ghost shift microsdhc :P18:58
jonwilyeah but those are simple to make18:58
ShadowJKkingston sold them as their own :>18:58
jonwilplus there are plenty of cheap flash chips out there you can use18:59
jonwilthey are crap and unreliable18:59
jonwilbut cheap18:59
*** Gorroth has quit IRC18:59
ShadowJKFunny thing about the transport costs though, I like buying stuff online from china, because shipping isn't a rip-off :P19:00
jonwilIts when you start talking things like CPUs, GPUs, audio chips and fancy stuff that it gets hard19:00
ShadowJKlongsoon is a bit underpowered and powerhungry still :/19:01
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo19:01
* jonwil wonders if using bits of libbmeipc-dev from Harmattan SDK for Fremantle work is going to get me in trouble...19:02
*** mardi has quit IRC19:02
javispedrois it nonfree?19:03
javispedrojonwil: if it is nonfree, the eula is here: in case you want to read it.19:03
javispedro"The Licensee shall be entitled to exploit the license granted to it by19:04
javispedroNokia under and in accordance with this Agreement solely for the purpose of19:04
javispedroporting and developing software for the MAEMO-Platform"19:04
javispedronote: not meego =)19:04
ShadowJKdoes M6 have upower?19:04
jonwilThe good news is that most of what I need is in
jonwilwhich is GPL per
jonwilwell LGPL19:06
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: LOL19:06
javispedroI ponder if I should file a bug about being legally forbidden from doing any Meego work using this Meego Harmattan Platform SDK19:08
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: now THAT are those over critical lawyers @ Nokia, who are so ompossible to pass by even with silly things like saying "charge this battery to max X.y Volt, and don't heat to more than, and here's what the saftety switch does..."19:09
* GAN900 doesn't know how people use On Live.19:10
javispedrolawyers and volts in the same sentence? and you're not talking about giving lawyers some electrical shock? does not compute!19:10
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I think we already figured all this, I even have the meego bme stuff open in my browser right now. I didn't suggest to replace hald-addon-bme without pondering if and how it can be done19:12
jonwilAnyhow, with that LGPL stuff linked to and a couple of #defines pulled from somewhere, it should be possible to completly clone all of hald-addon-bme except all the syslog stuff19:12
jonwilyeah I know, I intend to clone hald-addon-bme19:12
DocScrutinizerclone it so that it uses sysfs or direct access to chips, alternatively. Rather than bme IPC19:13
jonwilthen others can hack on my clone and make it e.g. talk to backends other than Nokia BME19:13
DocScrutinizerhonestly the bme IPC is most foggy part of it19:13
* ShadowJK wonders if the battery icon in MeeGo CE talks to bme or talks to sysfs19:14
DocScrutinizerthe rest is straight forward19:14
jonwilI already figured out 90% of the bmeipc bits19:14
DocScrutinizerI have NO idea19:14
jonwilso its not like finishing the job and writing the clone is going to be hard19:15
ruskieso anyone used the meego community edition on the n900 yet?19:15
DocScrutinizeras there's no proper papers describing such "global" macroscopic things19:15
*** NishanthM has joined #maemo19:16
DocScrutinizerjonwil: if you're talking about CE then that's CE bme19:16
DocScrutinizerI think it differs quite a bit19:16
jonwilno, actually, the bits of the interface that matter seem to match between the libbmeipc I have from nokia-binaries and the git links I posted19:17
jonwilI mean hald-addon-bme from nokia-binaries19:18
jonwilnot libbmeipc19:18
jonwilThis is from maeno fremantle SDK nokia-binaries btw19:18
jonwilso yes I can come up with a proper clone for Fremantle and its BME that uses the info from various versions of the MeeGo n900_libbme tree19:18
*** Gorroth has joined #maemo19:19
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo19:19
ShadowJKruskie, spent midsummer holidays experimenting with it19:23
jonwilWill be GPL-ing my hald-addon-bme clone so the license of the n900_libbme bits (all of the code in that repo that I can see is LGPL) is not a problem :)19:23
jonwilI will also be GPL-ing any and all of the Cell Broadcast SMS bits19:23
jonwilincluding the GUI bit19:24
ruskieShadowJK, the latest build? 2011-06-23?19:24
jonwilHave to GPL that stuff anyway, ofono is GPL and I am/will be using bits of ofono code19:24
*** dailylinux has quit IRC19:25
ruskiesounds right19:25
ruskieusable? used the sd card right?19:25
ShadowJKnot really19:25
ShadowJKYeah sd card19:26
*** MoonTiger has joined #maemo19:27
*** jonwil has quit IRC19:27
MohammadAGwell, that's one app done, till they get window stacking done
javispedroI do not think stacking in the hildon sense will ever work19:31
MohammadAGandre__, is the right place to report Harmattan SDK bugs?19:31 or something19:31
*** MoonTiger has quit IRC19:32
MohammadAGjavispedro, stacking worked fine in MTF afaik19:34
javispedroit is implemented _inside_ mtf.19:35
*** cloudyLights has quit IRC19:35
*** ZogG has quit IRC19:36
javispedroI find it funny that the Nokia WP7 developer site has like 100 posts. Max. And videos of HTC devices.19:38
javispedroand 3 wiki pages, and all of them have been written by a QML fan whose goal clearly was ridiculize WP7's XAML.19:40
MohammadAGjavispedro, and MTF is a big Qt subclass19:41
RST38hMoreover, I am sure Nokia's WP7 device will in fact be a relabelled HTC!19:41
*** tackat has quit IRC19:41
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo19:41
* RST38h cackles sardonically19:41
javispedrowell, I _hope_ the guy's goal was to ridiculize XAML. Otherwise, this is going to be fun.19:41
andre__MohammadAG, no19:42
andre__Harmattan has nothing to do with bugs.maemo.org19:42 or so19:42
RST38handre: But shouldn't it?19:43
andre__RST38h, why?19:43
RST38handre: Well, it is still a Maemo!19:43
andre__not really19:43
RST38hah come on19:43
andre__it's called "Maemo 1.2 Harmattan"19:43
RST38hOk, so it is a Maemo!19:43
javispedroandre__: hah, subconscious!19:43
andre__Discussing it is just useless19:44
andre__leads to nothing and changes nothing19:44
RST38handre: No, really, marketing department's illusions aside,it is a freaking maemo19:44
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC19:44
andre__RST38h, shrug19:44
andre__infrastructure is not there in and there are no plans to19:44
andre__plus no Nokian will care anyway about Harmattan SDK bug reports in bugs.maemo.org19:45
javispedroMohammadAG: do you have the code for that "stacking Qt windows" around?19:45
MohammadAGjavispedro, MTF? nope19:45
MohammadAGbut if I had a window with stacking support, I can get the atom19:45
javispedroMohammadAG: but what is your app doing at the moment?19:46
javispedroopening a new raw QWindow?19:46
javispedroor QWidget19:46
MohammadAGQMainWnidow, yes19:46
javispedroso you eventually end up with two main level windows19:47
*** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC19:48
MohammadAGjavispedro, main level? no, one's a child window19:49
MohammadAGQMainWindow = GtkWindow equiv19:49
javispedroDocScrutinizer: crumble in fear!!
*** konttori_home has quit IRC19:51
javispedrook, that is scaring.19:52
javispedrovery scary.19:52
javispedrostatic analysis of binaries19:52
DocScrutinizerI've seen quite a few of those pages, that's where my concerns got stirred up19:52
DocScrutinizerI'll be a pleasure to me to build a backdoor into each and every binary I produce, in a way no static analysis and no human experts review will find it19:53
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC19:54
DocScrutinizerfinally all the oops_off-by-one double-tricky cases of the past come to a new good purpose finally19:55
SpeedEvilIt depends.19:56
MohammadAGwtf is wrong with this guy
SpeedEvilIf the security framework is used well - it's a plus.19:57
javispedrolocked mode = no sftp19:57
javispedrono ssh at all19:57
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC19:57
javispedroif you manage to sneak a binary at all, kernel will refuse to run it19:57
SpeedEvilFor example - if all apps are required to say why they use each device on the app page.19:57
SpeedEvilSo you can't have an app hitting the net if it hasn't said it will.19:58
kerioSpeedEvil: we could have the same level of trustworthiness with code review of opensource programs19:58
SpeedEvilAnd if the approval process is done right19:58
kerioit works for linux distros19:58
SpeedEvilkerio: Or does it.19:58
SpeedEvilSee openssh19:58
kerioyeah but that wasn't malicious intent19:59
SpeedEvilWasn't it?19:59
ruskieI really don't get the point of aegis on what for all intents and purposes seems to be DoA OS/Device19:59
*** radic has quit IRC19:59
kerioSpeedEvil: are you saying that openssh devs knowingly put security vulnerabilities in openssh?20:00
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: didn't you say you want to wait and see what it's like when it gets used, OWTTE?20:00
kerioanything "trusted computing" platforms do can be done by the user20:01
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you are completely right in that aegis seems to be fully armed and operational20:01
DocScrutinizerand it's right from 7th hell20:02
javispedroputs the webos jails to shame20:02
*** Necc has quit IRC20:02
DocScrutinizerkerio: except deprive user from ruling his own device, that's a unique feature of security framework20:03
SpeedEvilDepending on what controls the user has over it.20:04
SpeedEvilMy thinkpad has a similar device, and kernel features.20:05
DocScrutinizeruser has NO control20:05
kerioi thought that was the point20:05
DocScrutinizerall control you grant to user, you as well grant to 'malware' in the sense of those who want their content or IP protected20:06
SpeedEvilIt deends on the policies - which I don't think have been revealed yet.20:06
SpeedEvilI agree it could be very bad.20:06
DocScrutinizerand it can change any day20:06
DocScrutinizerand there's just so much you can do about it20:06
DocScrutinizertake it or leave it20:07
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo20:07
DocScrutinizerbuy sth else20:07
*** dotblank has quit IRC20:07
SpeedEvilBiggie I guess is can you replace the kernel.20:07
DocScrutinizeryou definitely can replace the kernel, and run in permanent devel-mode20:08
SpeedEvilAnd what is the policy towards users with secure mode on running user apps.20:08
ruskieI thought the main idea is that you could have drm enabled or disabled... atleast that's what I recall from a while ago20:08
SpeedEvilDepends on what's allowed in disabled mode.20:08
SpeedEvilFor example - is the graphics driver blob.20:09
ruskiewith any drm content of course being disabled when drm mode disabled20:09
SpeedEvilTo take an extreme example.20:09
DocScrutinizeryes, you have two devices: one with DRM and all the nice apps, and one where you can do what you want, but not *with* what you want20:09
javispedroruskie: aegis seems to do way more, it even handles access control to location, cellular services, ...20:09
kerioDocScrutinizer: fuck everything about that20:09
javispedroheck, with aegis on, an application cannot even kill()20:10
SpeedEvilIf you look at the n9 as a mass market device - the security model of the n900 was very questionable.20:11
DocScrutinizerit seems you slowly gradually understand my concerns20:11
RST38hDoc: Given that prospects of having nice apps are pretty thin, you still have one device20:12
kerioSpeedEvil: fuck everything about that too20:12
RST38hDoc: And whatever lawyers advised Nokia during development process have another20:12
SpeedEvilIn principle, the security framework could make the device almost a different device to the user.20:12
SpeedEvilSo a dev device and a user device would have a totally disparate set of software.20:12
RST38hSpeed: Yes. For example, the security framework could run an embedded copyof Android and only run safe android apps inside that copy20:12
SpeedEvilConsider the best 'worst case'.20:13
RST38hSpeed: Would that be useful?:)20:13
javispedroRST38h: lmao20:13
SpeedEvilWe have a documented platform with drivers, on which we can run meego-ce20:13
javispedroSpeedEvil: if that's the best wors case..... can't envision the worst =)20:13
RST38hBTW, Microsoft is doing something similar onthe desktop, with the SoftGrid crap.20:13
RST38hThey ship laptops with a cut down "demo" version of the Office running inside the SoftGrid20:13
RST38hPain in the ass to remove, as it does not have uninstall option and takes lots of disk space20:14
RST38hSpeed: You can run Meego on a Samsung Tab afaik (check with lardman)20:14
RST38hSpeed: No need for Nokia hw to run Meego any more.20:14
SpeedEvilRST38h: Indeed.20:15
SpeedEvilRST38h: It depends on the features and the price of the device at the time.20:15
RST38hIn fact, I suspect that every true-Meego-fanatic should start getting used to the thought that his hw will not be made by Nokia. Right about now.20:15
RST38hAnd look for some widely available ARM-based hw platform to move development to (HTC? Samsung?)20:16
SpeedEvilIf you remember - similar noises were made about n900 security - which never really happend20:16
RST38hBut that was before Maemo devices hired that girl from Nokia Research20:17
RST38hAnd before she delivered the first talk on Aegis and got heckled by AMS conference attendees20:18
DocScrutinizernow who's going to c&p all that over to #meego-arm? it's unfair we keep all the fun for us, we should share as there are quite a number of aegis/MSSF fans and even contributors over there ;-P20:18
ShadowJKmeego-arm probably doesn't give a shit20:18
*** zap has quit IRC20:18
javispedroyeah, aegis is nokia's20:18
ShadowJKI think someone needs to make a summary of their findings in a blog post or something.20:19
MohammadAG<javispedro> if you manage to sneak a binary at all, kernel will refuse to run it20:19
MohammadAGreminds me of Symbian20:19
*** Diod has quit IRC20:19
SpeedEvilI'll write this up on a wikipage tomorrow20:19
DocScrutinizeraegis is MSSF, and MSSF is planned for /already in meego-proper as well20:19
ShadowJKAnd the symbian security model really killed all third party apps :P20:19
javispedroin fact, if you are looking at the official Harmattan, look no further than aegis. Aegis defines which functions you might call if you have "GPS" token, etc.20:20
RST38hShadowJK: Not specifically the model20:20
javispedro*official Harmattan API20:20
RST38hShadowJK: But the signing policy that was design to create income for Symbian FOunsation20:20
*** marthd has quit IRC20:20
ShadowJKRST38h, well that you had to send your binaries to this website that had their webform hardwired to a printer in a corner in an office and you just had to wait for someone to notice the printout and sign your binary before you could run it...20:21
DocScrutinizerwow, I bitched 6 months and nobody ever listened. I have to rethink a few things...20:21
RST38hShadowJK: Some managerial idiot though it would be "a good thing" and did not consider what it would do to the ecosystem20:21
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo20:21
RST38hShadowJK: Do not forget, it was like $80 per one binary signed. And three weeks.20:21
*** zap has joined #maemo20:21
RST38hShadowJK: In other words, a clusterfuck20:22
*** mardi has joined #maemo20:22
ShadowJKI think a forum thread or wikipage wont get nearly the attention this deserves20:22
*** marthd has joined #maemo20:22
RST38hEven after they lowered the signing price for $25/binary and established some never-working procedure for signing OSS binaries20:22
ShadowJKYeah the webform hardwired to printer in some office corner was the OSS signing20:22
RST38hAnyways, TTG20:22
*** kthomas has quit IRC20:23
ShadowJKiirc there was ONE successful piece of oss software for symbian, and they had to hold fund raising drives to be able to afford listing in Ovi Store :P20:23
*** kerio has quit IRC20:23
ruskieI wonder how long until there's an aegis-limp project that will just allow all...20:24
*** Openfree^ has joined #maemo20:25
*** kerio has joined #maemo20:25
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC20:26
*** dailylinux has joined #maemo20:26
javispedrothis is where most info is20:26
javispedrofor example, I finally found how iphone-style uninstalling works20:27
javispedrothere's this new field in debian control file MeeGo-Desktop-Entry-Filename: /usr/share/meegotouch/applicationextensions/calc.desktop20:27
javispedroand installer app (nonfree?) creates a temp .desktop file for it while installing even20:28
*** NishanthM has quit IRC20:29
GAN900X-Fade, ping?20:30
ShadowJKWhat is iphone-style uninstalling?20:32
GAN900Tap'n'hold on home screen20:33
GAN900Tap red x on icons to remove.20:33
ruskieso similar to symbian stuff20:33
ruskieselect app -> hit C -> do you wish to remove20:33
ShadowJKHeh, all the symbian stuff I've used had "App manager", you selected the software, it said "Unknown error", and then you selected uninstall, and it showed a progress bar, and then said "Out of memory"20:34
*** andre__ has quit IRC20:34
ruskieShadowJK, that was also an option20:34
ruskiebut selecting an app ani hitting C tended to work as well20:34
ShadowJKI accidentally hit C sometimes and assumed it'd only remove the icon20:37
javispedroshamus: lol20:38
DocScrutinizerhonestly guys, all this aegis stuff is not fresh shit really, it's all been around since a decade or so, and no suddenly everybody gets upset, while all laughed at me when I was rising same concerns just a week ago? How's that??20:38
MohammadAGjavispedro, that's retarded and not backwards compatible20:39
MohammadAGit should just use the package file list20:39
MohammadAGjavispedro, in theory, can't aegis be circumvented?20:39
javispedrodepends on what you want to circumvent20:39
*** rd has quit IRC20:39
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, originally Nokia said you could run without the DRM stuff and you'd only lose the ability to install a few pieces of software, and DRM'd movies and DRM'd music?20:39
javispedroin theory, if an application stores some crap in the bb5, and you want to get it in open mode, you can't.20:40
ShadowJKah, that too :-)20:40
DocScrutinizerall lies, I told ya. The concept has a number of immanent requirements if you want any part of it20:40
*** Openfree^ has quit IRC20:41
*** larsivi has joined #maemo20:41
ShadowJKworst of all is the lack od information20:41
joppuare there any devs with a N9(50) unit in the wild?20:42
DocScrutinizerhmmmm, sorry when I failed on that20:42
joppuI mean already at this point20:42
*** plq has joined #maemo20:44
*** konttori_home has joined #maemo20:44
ruskiehmm fun... can't use a N95 radio in offline mode as well... gah...20:46
MohammadAGoffline mode on symbian is retarded20:46
MohammadAGjoppu, not anyone here afaik20:46
ruskieeverything basically broken20:46
MohammadAGit got better in FP220:47
MohammadAG"Device is in offline mode, continue doing soemthing?"20:47
ruskieonly allows that with wifi20:48
ruskiegps doesn't function, radio won't even launch20:48
Shapeshifterhow do I force a resync of the clock on the n900? "Update automatically" hasn't been working for hours now.20:48
ShadowJKIn any case, whining on forums, irc and wiki isn't going to be seen by anyone...20:48
joppuI'm just working on a Fremantle icon theme for Harmattan ;)20:48
ShadowJKSomeone needs to document findings in a readable form, with sentences, punctuation and paragraphs :P20:49
*** liar has quit IRC20:49
*** liar has joined #maemo20:49
*** messerting has quit IRC20:51
*** Kilroo has quit IRC20:51
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo20:52
*** vldcnst has quit IRC20:52
*** messerting has joined #maemo20:52
*** budjer has joined #maemo20:52
*** The_Fellow has quit IRC20:54
*** rd has joined #maemo20:54
*** mece has joined #maemo20:56
*** Jef91 has joined #maemo20:57
Jef91Hey all - where does the reside on the n900?20:57
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC21:02
*** cityLights has joined #maemo21:03
cityLightsfinally solved all issuses and now it works21:04
cityLightssoon to send it to extras-devel21:04
cityLightsso much joy21:04
*** klasu__ has quit IRC21:04
merlin1991Jef91: /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so21:08
*** rd has quit IRC21:09
*** robink has joined #maemo21:10
c2pLaYhi all21:11
*** mujtaba has quit IRC21:11
c2pLaYgot a weird problem with wifi on nokia n90021:11
c2pLaYwifi connection seems to time out21:11
c2pLaYif i use something like irssi, it doesn't time out21:11
c2pLaYif i stay connected to something21:11
c2pLaYbut this doesn't happen with other connections21:12
*** konttori_home has quit IRC21:12
c2pLaYit connects and works fine, for a short period of time21:12
c2pLaYthen times out or something21:12
c2pLaYyet with irssi open it stayed connected all night21:13
merlin1991c2pLaY: I had similar issues21:13
merlin1991only happened with one ap at home21:13
c2pLaYwireless N problem?21:13
c2pLaYyeah same here21:13
merlin1991I solved it by disabling the powersaving for the connection21:13
*** onen|openBmap has quit IRC21:13
c2pLaYit drains battery really fast21:13
c2pLaYbut i will test21:14
merlin1991but that drains the battery really fast 3 hrs connected max21:14
c2pLaYi will check back21:14
c2pLaYi swear i already tried that21:14
c2pLaYbut i am going to again21:14
c2pLaYi also had a problem with the desktop crashing all the time21:15
c2pLaYbut i figured it out by pure luck21:15
c2pLaYit was the wallpaper21:15
c2pLaYthe galaxy universe one21:15
c2pLaYcan't remember the name21:15
c2pLaYbut i turned that off and no more hildon crashe21:15
*** MoonTiger has joined #maemo21:16
MoonTigeris there some trick to getting maemo5 widgets visible in the qtdesigner?21:16
*** gri_ has joined #maemo21:18
c2pLaYhey merlin1991, were you able to find any relevant posts about this issue on a forum or something?21:18
MohammadAGGtk ones?21:18
*** eMHa has quit IRC21:18
c2pLaYi haven't been able to find anything :(21:18
merlin1991c2pLaY: on the maemo bug tracker there is some stuff21:19
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo21:19
c2pLaYtaking a lookc21:19
*** messerting has quit IRC21:21
*** messerting has joined #maemo21:21
*** gri has quit IRC21:21
MoonTigerMohammadAG, sorry... no qt widgets21:22
MoonTigerfor example, picklistselector21:22
MoonTigerdoesnt show up in the designer21:22
*** Arkenoi has quit IRC21:22
*** Arkenoi has joined #maemo21:23
javispedroohmy, so many stuff in harmattan.21:24
MoonTigeror is it better to make the UI dynamically in code?21:28
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo21:30
*** gri_ has quit IRC21:31
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo21:32
MohammadAGMohammadAG, what's picklistselector?21:35
MohammadAGanyway, you can make a desktop widget with designer21:35
MohammadAGsee facebrick/sticky notes/cardioalert etc21:36
*** lxp has quit IRC21:36
hiemanshuMohammadAG: speaking to yourself?21:40
*** eMHa has joined #maemo21:41
MohammadAGerr, MoonTiger21:43
MohammadAGnot looking at my screen while typing :P21:43
MoonTigerMohammadAG, sorry ... its a listpickselector ... it doesnt appear in the designer widget toolbox21:44
MoonTigerso i wondered if they are created in code in the constructor of the dialog21:44
*** trumee has quit IRC21:44
*** javispedro has quit IRC21:45
*** khertan_ has quit IRC21:47
*** Andy80 has quit IRC21:47
*** n6pfk has quit IRC21:48
*** messerting has quit IRC21:48
*** messerting has joined #maemo21:48
*** trumee has joined #maemo21:49
*** beford has joined #maemo21:49
*** beford has joined #maemo21:49
*** panaggio_ has quit IRC21:50
*** tommis has joined #maemo21:51
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC21:52
*** Jef91 is now known as Jef91|AFK21:53
*** tommis has quit IRC21:53
MohammadAGMoonTiger, I'm assuming  you meant QMaemo5ListPickSelector?21:54
MoonTigerMohammadAG, yes21:54
MoonTigerand any of the other maemo5 specific widgets21:54
*** tommis has joined #maemo21:55
MohammadAGyou can't get them in designer21:57
MoonTigerMohammadAG, ok i was beginning to figure that ... so i can add the layout in the designer but then dynamically create the widgets at runtime and add them t the layout?21:57
MoonTigerone (possibly) dumb question related to that ... do i have to free the widgets i create in the destructor? or is that handled automatically?21:58
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo21:59
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo21:59
*** khertan_ has joined #maemo21:59
*** flo_lap is now known as florian21:59
*** Robten has joined #maemo22:00
alteregoMoonTiger: as long as you supply the "parent" parameter when you create widgets, they are freed automatically.22:00
*** kerio92 has joined #maemo22:00
MoonTigerwow thanks for that ... important to know :) and thnx MohammadAG for the help ... much appreciated22:01
*** kerio has quit IRC22:01
*** kerio92 is now known as kerio22:01
MohammadAGMoonTiger, you can create a QWidget and shove the new widget in that :)22:01
MohammadAGand yw, but I'm lagging22:01
MoonTigerit seems just as easy to create them in the constructor ... they arent that complex22:02
MohammadAGalterego, any ideas how to make a scrolling QLabel?22:02
alteregoYou mean like a marquee?22:03
MohammadAGalterego, yes22:05
*** arvut has joined #maemo22:05
arvuthi and good eve22:05
MohammadAGalterego, but only if the text doesn't fit22:06
MoonTigerMohammadAG, surely you would have to subclass the label control no?22:06
arvutany idea what sgx_misr is? its some process running and jumping up to the top3 cpu suckers on my n90022:07
MohammadAGit's your SGX going nuts22:07
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo22:07
MohammadAGI doubt you can use your N900 when that happens, a reboot should fix it22:07
arvutwhats sgx then?22:07
MohammadAGMoonTiger, no, doubt it22:07
*** sq-one has joined #maemo22:07
MohammadAGPowerVR SGX, the graphics chip22:07
dm8tbrthe 3D engine22:07
arvutI'm using it now but its lagging like crazy22:07
arvuti'll reboot then22:08
*** arvut has quit IRC22:08
unixSnobstick off22:09
*** tackat has joined #maemo22:09
*** kama has joined #maemo22:10
*** davyg has quit IRC22:11
MohammadAGI hate how there isn't a window title in Harmattan22:11
MoonTigeris that because of the new ui "window" model?22:12
MohammadAGit's just not displayed anywhere22:12
*** arvut has joined #maemo22:12
GAN900It's gonna take getting used to22:13
GAN900I dislike big UI changes.22:13
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo22:13
MohammadAGit's not the UI change22:13
*** messerting has quit IRC22:13
MohammadAGit's the fact that the window manager is missing lots of window stuff22:13
MohammadAGwindow title, close22:13
arvutmuch better :) why would sgx go nuts?22:13
alteregoI don't think it'll matter, as long as the apps are fairly easy to tell the difference between them.22:13
arvuttoo much on the desktop?22:14
MohammadAGno one knows, not even Nokians22:14
*** messerting has joined #maemo22:14
arvuthardcoded stuff?22:14
dm8tbrarvut: it's closed source and nobody sane would even want to read the source code further than necessary22:14
arvutis it an essential part or can it be replaced?22:15
*** NishanthMenon has quit IRC22:15
dm8tbrif you can live with a super-slow UI and no 3D acceleration...22:15
*** kama has quit IRC22:15
*** KMFDM has quit IRC22:16
MohammadAGalterego, true, but if the app shows something in the title?22:16
unixSnobwindow stick off22:16
MohammadAGSociality shows the profile's name in the title22:16
MohammadAGis that a bot?22:17
* dm8tbr wonders that too22:17
alteregoErm ..22:19
alteregoWhy wouldn't you know your profile? :P22:19
*** arvut has quit IRC22:20
MohammadAGoh well, /me starts rewriting Sociality in QML22:21
*** mr_jrt has quit IRC22:21
MohammadAGalterego, is there a way to call methods from C++ in QML without signals/slots?22:22
*** mr_jrt has joined #maemo22:23
MohammadAGalterego, suppose I open YOUR profile, it'd say Tom in the title22:23
*** messerting has quit IRC22:23
*** messerting has joined #maemo22:24
*** kW_ has quit IRC22:26
*** l13tl3 has quit IRC22:27
*** arvut has joined #maemo22:27
*** Wamanuz has joined #maemo22:29
*** messerting has quit IRC22:30
*** Sc0rpius has joined #maemo22:30
*** MoonTiger has quit IRC22:30
*** messerting has joined #maemo22:30
*** arvut has quit IRC22:34
*** arvut has joined #maemo22:34
arvutwhats icd2? running from /usr/sbin22:35
MohammadAGInternet Connection Daemon22:37
MohammadAGor Connectivity, not that it matters22:37
arvutaha :)22:38
arvutcan I use it in the terminal?22:38
*** Wamanuz has quit IRC22:38
arvutI've been curious on how to connect to an AP thru the term22:38
MohammadAGit's a daemon, so nope22:39
MohammadAGyou can use DBus to talk to it22:40
*** davyg has joined #maemo22:40
arvutgotta learn dbus then. could be useful22:41
arvutthru shellscripting?22:42
MohammadAG might be useful22:42
*** jimmy1980 has quit IRC22:42
arvutcool =) ty22:42
MohammadAGerr, icd2 is open source o_O22:42
*** rd has joined #maemo22:43
*** hannesw__ has quit IRC22:43
*** Wamanuz has joined #maemo22:44
arvutso I could try to read the code and understand it then :P22:44
arvutc or c++?22:44
MohammadAGsomeone's confused22:45
MohammadAGfrom that page,   (1)Get the source code of icd222:45
MohammadAGE: Unable to find a source package for icd2 <-- doesn't seem to be open22:45
arvutoh :/22:46
*** kkito has joined #maemo22:46
arvutinteresting page tho22:46
*** ab has quit IRC22:52
*** messerting has quit IRC22:52
*** messerting has joined #maemo22:52
*** Smily has joined #maemo22:52
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC22:55
DocScrutinizerwhat? open?22:57
*** ekce86_ has joined #maemo22:57
*** Arkenoi has quit IRC22:58
*** Arkenoi has joined #maemo22:59
*** ekce86_ has quit IRC23:00
*** ekce86 has quit IRC23:00
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo23:00
MohammadAGalterego, can two N900s sync contacts?23:00
*** sq-one has quit IRC23:01
ChoomI was able to sync with the N95 that I had efore, so I'd guess they can23:02
*** sq-one has joined #maemo23:02
*** Zahra has quit IRC23:03
MohammadAGChoom, Transfer utility shows the N8, not the N90023:04
alteregoMohammadAG: don't think so, there's no bluetooth pc suite mode on the N90023:07
*** Guest73542 has joined #maemo23:07
*** I-C-Wiener has joined #maemo23:09
*** Guest73542 is now known as user0-23:09
*** wam has joined #maemo23:09
*** user0- has quit IRC23:09
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo23:10
*** user0- has joined #maemo23:11
*** FIQ has joined #maemo23:12
*** Smily has quit IRC23:14
*** marthd has quit IRC23:18
arvutis bluetooth faster than usb2.0?23:18
arvutwell, technically I mean23:19
otwieraczUSB2.0: Added higher maximum bandwidth of 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s)23:21
*** sq-one has quit IRC23:22
*** sq-one has joined #maemo23:23
arvutyeah and if I understand that table correct then there are different data transfer rates for bt?23:24
otwieraczAs you can see.23:24
Atariiwhen was the last N900 firmware update (Maemo 5)?23:24
arvutmax 723.2kb/s23:25
arvutoctober 2010?23:25
*** javispedro has joined #maemo23:26
*** jhb has joined #maemo23:27
*** kkito has quit IRC23:27
divanMohammadAG, you've been asking for more screenshots :)
*** messerting has quit IRC23:28
*** messerting has joined #maemo23:28
*** messerting has quit IRC23:28
divanBTW, is word 'recognize' is correct for this? Or better use 'identify'?23:29
jacekowskidivan: recognise23:31
jacekowskidivan: recognize is spelling americunts use23:32
*** lxp1 has quit IRC23:32
*** lxp has joined #maemo23:32
Choom(the only correct spelling)23:33
divanjacekowski, oops sorry. Thanks.23:33
Choomamerican spelling should be normative, british spelling is so full onf nonsense23:34
divanHmm google duel 'recognise' vs 'recognize' gives 37 000 000 vs 178 000 00023:35
MohammadAGdivan, Identify, since that's the API says23:35
GAN900divan, rm -rf en_GB23:35
GAN900It's senseless shit23:36
*** budjer has left #maemo23:36
GAN900Their empire is crumbled.23:36
divangoogle duel "identify music" vs "recognize music" gives 147 000 vs 56 00023:36
divanMohammadAG, agree23:36
*** hannesw__ has joined #maemo23:37
javispedrosomeone needs to do a edition of Homefront where the invaders are the British23:37
javispedrokorean invaders are so passé these days23:37
*** rd has quit IRC23:38
jacekowskiAbout 14,900,000 results (0.13 seconds)23:38
jacekowskifor recognise music23:38
jacekowskiwith only correct spelling23:38
divanjacekowski, use quotes23:38
divan23 000 for "recognise music"23:39
jacekowskidivan: and think that england is 10x smaller than usa23:39
hiemanshujavispedro: homefront was stupid, a really really bad engine23:39
divanjacekowski, I'm on your side ))23:40
*** sq-one has quit IRC23:40
*** sq-one has joined #maemo23:40
*** kkito has joined #maemo23:42
mr_jrtI'm able to sync my two N900's via bluetooth...23:43
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo23:43
cityLightscan anyone test my app?23:45
*** Jef91|AFK has quit IRC23:46
*** I-C-Wiener has quit IRC23:47
Atariiis there an alternative recommended app installer, besides the default?23:47
divanAtarii, faster application manager23:48
* merlin1991 just reflashed the n900 after a failed attempt @ building an uboot package23:48
divanand apt-get of course23:48
AtariilolFAP ok thanks i'll install23:48
merlin1991user0-: actually the official abbrevation is FAPMAN ;)23:48
*** unixSnob has quit IRC23:49
* divan always wondered why default app manager uses apt-worker which run in background.23:49
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo23:50
user0-still getting used to this keyboard23:50
user0-and yes install fam the default ones too slow23:50
user0-regardless of the poor gui23:51
user0-feels good running xchat on such a device23:51
*** unixSnob has quit IRC23:52
*** lxp has quit IRC23:53
*** ced117 has quit IRC23:54
*** lxp has joined #maemo23:55
*** sq-one has quit IRC23:55
*** mr_jrt has quit IRC23:55
*** pcacjr_ has joined #maemo23:56
*** mikkov has quit IRC23:56
user0-got axel working a few minutes ago23:56
user0-gona use some zenity script to make things easier23:57
user0-but arent there any download managers for maemo23:57
divanuser0-, double axel or triple axel? )23:57
*** pcacjr_ has quit IRC23:58
user0-they app thats like wget but uses more than one connection23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!