IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-06-08

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DantonicHey anyone here use xchat on the N900?03:26
pronto|i have03:26
Dantonictrying to figure out why I can't post multiple lines if I copy and paste for example03:27
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DocScrutinizer51Dantonic: xchat doesn't support multiline paste03:28
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Dantonicis that only on N900 or also the desktop version?03:29
DocScrutinizer51quite a bit annoying03:29
DantonicI know!03:29
Dantonicwhat the heck!03:29
DocScrutinizer51dunno, no xchat on desktop03:29
Dantonicso there is no way around it huh?03:30
nox-on destkop03:30
nox-desktop even03:30
Dantonicok so it's just on the N90003:30
luke-jrDantonic: *IRC* doesn't support multiple lines03:31
DocScrutinizer51*might* be related to this idiotic NK-enter bug in kbd03:31
Dantonicluke-jr so how does mirc do it?03:31
* merlin1991 wonders if multiline works in quassel2go03:31
cehtehshould be fixable in xchat then03:31
nox-well i prefer to manually remove the newlines too but they do end up in the input line...03:31
luke-jrDantonic: it doesn't, it sends each line individually03:31
nox-s/input line/input box/03:32
infobotnox- meant: well i prefer to manually remove the newlines too but they do end up in the input box...03:32
Dantonicok... but xchat on N900 does not?03:32
merlin1991it work?03:32
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merlin1991does :D03:32
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merlin1991Dantonic: I tried multiline support in quassel2go03:33
Dantonicwhat's qussel2go? irc client?03:33
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DocScrutinizer51it's really strange why it does NOT work here03:34
DantonicI'll give it a shot03:34
DocScrutinizer51in xchat03:34
Dantonicyeah who maintains it?  can it be worked on? :P03:35
Dantonici like xchat03:35
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Dantonicis there a plugin maybe?03:35
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nox-i have to hit `end' and then cursor right to see the second line in the input box...03:35
DocScrutinizer51you maintain it ;-)03:35
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nox-and n900 doesnt have `end' key (ok lots of cursor right would do it too...)03:36
DantonicI'm very bad at linux/programming03:36
DocScrutinizer51I'm wondering what's keymap in xchat for enter03:36
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Dantonicso is it confirmed? it works on desktop?03:37
nox-also insert is middle click here and ^v on n900, correct?03:37
nox-Dantonic, does for me03:38
* nox- wonders if its to do with ^v...03:38
DocScrutinizer51I got an idiotic obviously nonfunct entry for KP-enter, in xchat03:39
DocScrutinizer51sth about replacing words03:39
Dantonicit's as if it doesn't register the return... it stops at the first line03:40
Dantonicbut if I keep pasting then it works03:40
Dantonicif I paste something multiple times I can keep pasting and it will post it03:40
Dantonicany idea what that means?03:44
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GeneralAntillesAuto correction pisses me off.05:08
derfSo turn it off.05:09
GeneralAntillesThe whining on the internets about resistive Wii U touchscreen is hilarious.05:09
GeneralAntillesderf, just did. Not sure how it got turned back on.05:09
derfSo they're whining because they don't know how to use a touchscreen that's good?05:09
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GeneralAntilles"Buuuut its not wat Apple uses!!!"05:10
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Arcueid_Looks slow here today.05:59
Arcueid_Wish Stephen Elop logged here. That would stir things up for sure.05:59
cehtehi guess we just hack his box and kickban him from the channel :P06:00
Arcueid_Maybe that would be nice. lol06:01
Arcueid_Lemme ask something:06:01
Arcueid_Is windows just as pirated abroad as it is in my country?06:01
Arcueid_I mean, everybody has windows on their machines here.06:02
cehtehdepends on the country06:02
cehtehin S/E asia and china prolly much more06:02
cehtehhere in germany many people have a legal copy (mostly just because it comes with the computer)06:02
cehtehrecently steve ballmer stated they make less money in china than in holland :P06:03
cehteh(thats 1.5 billion people vs 12000000 or so, cant remember the exact numbers)06:04
cehtehi dont care :)06:04
Arcueid_I think I paid once for a copy of windows 95...06:05
cehtehi dont use windows and i buying computers without it06:05
cehteheven my laptop06:05
Arcueid_Funny enough, that thing had a nasty tendency to forget com and irq pairings. It was plain weird.06:05
Arcueid_Well... Maemo was my first linux device.06:06
Arcueid_Loving it, so far. The fact that there's a lot of resources that one can run, from other distros, is just awesome.06:06
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Arcueid_I at times wonder if M$ kinda felt... Frightened of the possibility of people migrating from maemo to a desktop distro...06:07
Arcueid_Only reason I haven't done som myself so far is that I'm not sure how well linux handles most games.06:08
cehtehmost games are prolly for windows06:08
cehtehso with some luck you can run them in wine06:08
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cehteh  but there are enough nice free games06:09
cehtehwell and all kinds of clones of some games06:09
cehtehi dont game *that* much06:09
* Arcueid_ checking above link06:12
Arcueid_My desktop has been mostly build around gaming as a prerequisite, so that tells a lot...06:12
Arcueid_I haven't experimented with free gaming, yet.06:12
Arcueid_Man, I feel so that dude from "Easy rider", when the bikers offer him pot, saying that, lol06:13
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hiemanshuis there a decent email client for the N90006:37
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keriocehteh: red eclipse is a better game imo07:41
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kerio(same cube2 engine like sauerbraten)07:41
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!08:21
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dangergrrlis DocScrutinizer the owner of this chan?08:29
dangergrrlhe seems pretty cool and such but just wondering08:29
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meceVenemo, o/09:49
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Venemomece, o709:49
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crashanddiedangergrrl, there is no real owner of the chan09:51
crashanddiedangergrrl, he's one of the ops, at one time, GeneralAntilles had ownership of the chan, but now I think it's X-Fade09:51
crashanddie(just for bureaucratic reasons, mainly)09:52
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JaffaMorning, all10:09
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dangergrrlwell he seems smarter than me and it bothers me but it is ok10:14
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Termanagood morning10:23
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crashanddiemorning Termana & Jaffa10:24
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_trine-ChanServ- Information on #maemo:10:45
_trine-ChanServ- Founder    : X-Fade10:45
_trine-ChanServ- Registered : May 25 15:41:01 2005 (6 years, 2 weeks, 0 days, 16:03:49 ago)10:45
_trine-ChanServ- Mode lock  : -s10:45
_trine-ChanServ- URL        : http://maemo.org10:45
_trine-ChanServ- Flags      : GUARD10:45
_trine-ChanServ- *** End of Info ***10:45
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dangergrrlguten morgens10:56
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dangergrrltrine i know there are other players but thank you10:57
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lardmanremorning all11:36
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hiemanshuis there a custom 2.6.3x kernel out there yet?11:52
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Termanafor.... the n900?11:52
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hiemanshuTermana: yes11:53
hiemanshuI want to use it with fedora arm rootfs, so wondering is there is one11:54
TermanaOh right. Well, you could just compile an upstream one, from what I've been told there are only a couple of out-of-tree patch differences between it and the MeeGo one.11:55
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hiemanshuwhat version is meego at?11:55
hiemanshuah, I can see a 2.6.37 one11:56
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stef_204hi, using maemo 5 on N900.  I have had a recent problem where I received a warning that some email accounts would be disabled as not enough space, until space was cleared (paraphrasing).11:58
stef_204this is due to the fact that Modest downloaded all attachments on my IMAP email accounts.11:59
Termanahiemanshu, ah, I read what version you were requesting wrong :p11:59
stef_204I have since cleared up space and used gconf to configure download "messages" instead of "messages-and-attachements" as key value (no idea if this will work)11:59
stef_204but impossible to have modest restart updating the disable accounts12:00
stef_204anyone here have any idea?12:00
chem|stnever had that12:00
chem|sthave you got 20GB attachments in you inbox?12:00
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stef_204chem|st: I have or had lots of PDF attachments from work but of course not 20 GBS12:01
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stef_204it seems to put the attachments on a 2GB /home partition and not on the 20GB one12:01
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stef_204I can probably delete the email account and re-add it I suppose12:02
stef_204mickey mouse workaround but might work12:02
stef_204what about cgonf settings for modest? anyone here familiar with the key: download where the value is "messages-and-attachments" ?12:04
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cityLightsI need packaging advice12:05
cityLightsmay I used pypackeger?12:06
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divanIs there any way to get rid of 'qtc_packaging' dir and tell QtCreator to use debian/ directory?12:10
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lardman interesting to see Harmattan mentioned there12:21
MohammadAGlardman, Harmattan is mentioned everywhere in Qt12:22
lardmanoh right12:22
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lardmanwell come on Nokia let's have a device then! ;)12:22
MohammadAGthere's a define (Q_WS_MAEMO_6), Qt Creator has a Harmattan publish feature etc..12:22
lardmanoh right, I've been using a rather old SDK version for the N900 dev12:23
lardmanand I don't read the docs either ;)12:23
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MohammadAGnewest Qt Creator is way better than the one bundled with QtSDK 1.112:25
lardmanI'm just installing now on my work Windows box as I have some UI dev to do there12:26
fluxso, there doesn't appear to be a program to lock the n900 display, when proximity sensor says there is something near.12:26
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fluxis it just plain bad idea or hasn't the thought crossed any developer's mind?-)12:26
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MohammadAGthe former I'd guess :p12:28
MohammadAGproximity sensor doesn't detect distance, it's either open or closed12:28
fluxI get that12:28
fluxbut it should detect that it's in the pocket12:28
fluxof course, should I stick my finger over it, it would react then as well12:29
fluxbut, it would be nice to try12:29
fluxbecause it's also a bother to make sure the device is locked before putting into pocket12:29
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fluxthen there is the thing that I assume using the sensor consumes power.. ?12:30
MohammadAGproximity? it's always on12:30
fluxoh, nice12:30
fluxso in principle it could also unlock when the sensor says there's nothing there12:30
lardmanwhat happens to the phone ui when you bloxk the sensor? does it just stop accepting input or does it blank the screen?12:32
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* lardman lacks an eye in his cheek so has never noticed12:34
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cityLightswhich scanner do the guys here use under linux?12:36
robbiethe1stlike for paper pages?12:36
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merlin1991I have some old scanner here, it just works (TM)12:37
cityLightsI used to have an epson 1500 and now think of buying a new one12:37
robbiethe1stI just used an older HP all in one cheapy12:37
robbiethe1stthey work fairly nicely12:37
robbiethe1st...Y'know, I think I found out the reason N900's seem to slow down, crash not work as well etc.12:38
robbiethe1stand why reflashing fixes it12:38
robbiethe1stIt's the OptFS getting corrupt. Today, it took like 2 minutes for it to start, programs were sometimes sluggish, hildon-home went crazy for a bit...12:39
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robbiethe1stran fsck on it, found a LOT of errors, and after fixing everything, running badblocks etc... it now boots in 30 seconds or so12:39
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cityLightsI didnt see an answer so let me try again13:06
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cityLightsmay I use PyPackager to package my app for maemo5 or should I follow the,_Deploying_and_Distributing#Creating_Debian_Packages13:06
cityLights~seen Khertan13:07
infobotkhertan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 21h 17m 15s ago, saying: 'i ll look thx'.13:07
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RST38hone of Nintendo's chief game designers, Katsuya Eguchi, confirmed that the system's proprietary disc format will hold 25 Gigabytes of data.14:09
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what's wrong with infobot saying hello when joining the chan14:45
DocScrutinizernot my idea she says "hello DocScrutinizer"14:45
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DocScrutinizer_trine: crashanddie: thanks for putting straight14:47
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chem|sthmm, any guess how long n900s will be in stock at online retailers?14:55
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DocScrutinizergood question14:56
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SpeedEvilIs ebay a retailer?15:00
SpeedEvilIn which case, I'd suspect you'll be able to buy them for at least a decade.15:00
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hiemanshuis there a decent N900 email client?15:01
hiemanshumodest is meh :P15:01
robbiethe1stYes!... The gmail web client. :P15:02
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robbiethe1stThanks to the browser, you get all sorts of webapps.15:02
hiemanshupossible to compile one for it?15:02
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MohammadAGanyone up for coding Nokia Bubbles?15:05
SpeedEvilIs it a simulation of what happens when you drop an Elop into lava?15:07
MohammadAGcrashanddie, is gitorious down or just being crappy atm?15:07
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crashanddieMohammadAG, it's up AFAICT15:08
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: in Python sure, anyother language, no :P15:11
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MohammadAG proof of concept lockscreen "replacement"15:13
MohammadAGfeel free to write some custom lockscreens with QML :P15:13
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andre__time is nice, but date is missing. ;-)15:13
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MohammadAGwho cares, it's foss :p15:14
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meceMohammadAG, nice, where's the source?15:16
MohammadAGit's pretty much copy and paste what's there and code your own UI15:17
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meceMohammadAG, can we use a declarative view for this?15:18
MohammadAGmece, sure, why not15:18
GonzoTheGreatMohammadAG thanks for the git link.15:19
MohammadAGFYI I use Qt::Dialog to make hildon-desktop believe it's a dialog (it's a QMainWindow), that way CTRL+Backspace is ignored15:19
mecewe could even leave the qml outside qrc, so people could hack the looks on device if they feel like it...15:19
MohammadAGGonzoTheGreat, yw :)15:19
meceMohammadAG, sweet!15:19
MohammadAGit needs one extra check15:20
GonzoTheGreatAs I said in the thread. I will make declarativ version as well as static15:20
meceGonzoTheGreat, there's a thread?15:20
MohammadAGit always assumes the screen is locked15:20
hiemanshuwhy isn't anything in python? :(15:20
MohammadAGPython is slow15:20
GonzoTheGreatthe iphone battery widget one15:20
mecewhat MohammadAG said15:20
hiemanshunot really no15:20
MohammadAG(at least on a 600MHz device)15:20
MohammadAG mece15:21
GonzoTheGreatThe only problem I see with this is the memory usage15:21
MohammadAGhiemanshu, which UI toolkit?15:21
meceyeah I posted in that thread already, LOL *bonk self*15:21
hiemanshuMohammadAG: Qt15:21
hiemanshuI know a bit of QML as well15:21
meceI looove qml15:21
MohammadAGnot a big fan of writing qml15:22
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mecemostly because I don't know c++ properly15:22
MohammadAGrequires way too much effort imo, but in the end you get a nice UI15:22
GonzoTheGreatHopefully able to work on it tomorrow.15:22
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MohammadAGand lots of memory usage *cough*15:22
meceMohammadAG, effort from the device or the coder?15:22
MohammadAGyou need to reimplement stuff15:22
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meceMohammadAG, it's heavy on the memory but sure is easy and fast to make cool stuff.15:23
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GonzoTheGreatFor now I have lock unlock working using the power and slider buttons15:24
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MohammadAGthat's what the concept shows15:24
MohammadAGit overlays the stock lockscreen15:24
meceMohammadAG, does the concept replace the lock screen?15:24
meceok overlays.,15:24
MohammadAGmece, replacing it is a huge effort15:24
GonzoTheGreatyep looks similar15:25
MohammadAGsince the same plugin that handles locking actually shows the UI15:25
mecedoes overlaying it cause problems?15:25
MohammadAG(bad coding by whoever did it @ Nokia)15:25
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mecewell then who cares? I think we can live with the extra memory needed..15:25
meceas long as we keep it simple enough15:26
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meceGonzoTheGreat, so.. merge with MohammadAG's concept?15:26
GonzoTheGreatHave you tried to remove the and seel what happens. I wasn't brave enough/ in flashing mood15:26
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GonzoTheGreatsure. I will clone the git15:27
MohammadAGYes, again that handles locking15:27
MohammadAGso you'd need handle screen blanking, connect with mce and read when to lock the screen etc15:27
GonzoTheGreatdoing all that15:27
meceI was looking in to replacing the whole locking bit, but seemed like a lot of hard work15:27
MohammadAGbasically, you're rewriting an mce plugin15:27
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meceI wanted the lock screen to pop up when you touch the screen (if proximity sensor not active) instead of having to poke at powerswitch15:28
GonzoTheGreatI was wondering if removing the plugin will crash anything or just stops it from showing the lock screen15:28
MohammadAGGonzoTheGreat, you can't lock the device in any way15:28
MohammadAGnothing will crash15:28
mecewell the signals would go nowhere15:29
MohammadAGmece, there won't be any signals15:29
meceis it a dbus signal that locks the device?15:29
MohammadAGyes, and it's handled by that .so file15:29
GonzoTheGreatok. I get it now15:29
MohammadAGwhich is wrong, again, bad coding by Nokia15:30
MohammadAGhere's a binary if anyone wants to give it a shot
meceso replacing the dbus service and making it point to something else?15:30
MohammadAGmece, so write a library that reads mce's config and handles blanking without breaking anything :p15:30
mecewell therein lies the problem15:31
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meceas I said, a lot of hard work. And I don't need that feature (show lockscreen when screen touched and proximity sensor = 0) that much. And I'm glad that overlaying works.15:32
meceOne could implement all sorts of cool stuff. A widget type lock screen with custom info and stuff :)15:32
mecestuff and stuff15:32
GonzoTheGreatThat's what I am working on15:33
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MohammadAGmediaplayer controls, notifications, possibilities are endless15:33
meceanyway I've got to go.Perhaps a new thread could be started in development on tmo GonzoTheGreat15:34
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GonzoTheGreatAs I said we can do it quick-widgets style. I willm create some bindings so people can customize15:34
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MohammadAGI wonder if the qml files in Nokia Bubbles' .sis file are encrypted15:35
MohammadAGor compiled15:35
T-CoIs it possible to have voice guidance to the Ovi Maps navi?15:36
T-Co(on N900)15:36
divanSo, is there any way to make both dpkg-buildpackage and qtcreator happy? I mean to keep one debian/qtc_packaging directory or smth like that.15:36
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GonzoTheGreatBubbles. Interesting.15:38
GonzoTheGreatHas probably a  fair bit of c++ backing15:39
MohammadAGI can write that, no problems there15:39
MohammadAG(with proper signals/slots)15:39
MohammadAGI wonder if there's a way to unpack a sis on linux15:40
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DocScrutinizermoo moh15:43
GonzoTheGreatI know we could do it. I was talk15:43
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GonzoTheGreat about te usefulness of the qml if available15:43
DocScrutinizermoo javispedro15:44
MohammadAGo/ DocScrutinizer & javispedro15:44
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: is alsaped open?15:45
javispedroaway from workstation atm15:45
DocScrutinizerthought you might know off top of your head15:45
MohammadAGGonzoTheGreat, well, if it uses signals/slots we could use the same method names in the C++ code15:45
DocScrutinizernm then15:46
GonzoTheGreatsure but I think the qml is the least amount of work.15:46
MohammadAGto you, maybe, to me? not so much :p15:46
GonzoTheGreatfor custom stuff it is alm15:47
GonzoTheGreatost all c++ anyway15:47
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MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > apt-cache search alsa-policy-enforcement15:48
MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] >15:48
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you ever got aware of a thing named /usr/lib/alsa-lib/smixer/ ?15:49
lcuk> apt-cache search awesome_developer15:49
GonzoTheGreatapt-cache show MohammadAG15:49
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: thanks...15:50
javispedroFscking autocompletion15:50
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: it's shining up as missing when I use amixer --abstract basic15:50
javispedromy magic 8 ball says alsaped is closed15:51
javispedroeither way, does not seem interesting15:51
DocScrutinizerseems to be a way to mess with alsa properties like control names etc, maybe15:51
javispedroprobably easily replacabe by a python script, but I bet its C for performance15:52
javispedroas it seems to set tens of mixers every time15:52
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: indeed an proper spec and manpage about alsaped would be way more interesting15:52
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javispedrofrom what I remember from fmradio policy daemon just sends a dbus msg saying sth like15:53
javispedrosrc=microphone, out=speaker15:54
DocScrutinizerthis friggin is available for buntkuh and mint and a few other, but seems is not a generally adopted bit of sw15:54
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javispedroand alsaped goes through its .ini-like settings file and sets smixers as appropiate15:54
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GonzoTheGreatMohammadAG: about mce again. Do you know whats's happening on lock. disable keyboard, backlight?15:54
javispedroDocscrutinizer: why are you interested in python?15:54
DocScrutinizerjust interested in amixer --abstract and what it's doing in a broader view of ALSA concept15:55
MohammadAGdisable keyboard -> emit appropriate signal, disable backlight -> emit appropriate signal, disable touchscreen -> emit signal15:55
javispedroand I bet its written in Python =)15:55
MohammadAGdim and blank screen -> emit signal15:55
GonzoTheGreatare all these accessible?15:56
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I fail to get a grip on it so far15:56
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: not even fekkin `man amixer` even mentions --abstract15:57
javispedrono idea what that does15:57
javispedrobut tbh I do not want to learn about yet more alsalib ABSTRACTion crap.15:57
lcukomg my sister wants me to remove beard15:58
DocScrutinizerI think iz's a hook into smixer lib(?) to mess with all sorts of control properties15:58
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MohammadAGGonzoTheGreat, having two apps emitting signals on the same DBus path/interface isn't a good thing to do15:58
lcukand just have a 'tache15:58
MohammadAGin fact, I'm not sure if DBus will handle it15:58
javispedrolcuk: rebel.15:58
* lcuk needs more people voting for full beard15:58
lcukjavispedro, I did by growing it in the first place15:58
GonzoTheGreatwhat if we remove the
lcuk* replace15:59
DocScrutinizerlcuk: you're kindly invited to link to my avatar16:00
MohammadAGGonzoTheGreat, I suggest dropping that idea completely16:00
MohammadAGunless you want to rewrite it as a proper mce plugin16:01
javispedroI cannot believe morons are bashing Nintendo for going resistive16:01
* DocScrutinizer wonders what's been "the idea" fist place16:01
MohammadAGOMG resistive sucks!!!116:01
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* javispedro puts on trolling hat and robe and clicks "reply"16:02
* DocScrutinizer fetching popcorn and asking "LINK?"16:02
GonzoTheGreatOk so we should stick with the overlay?!16:03
javispedroDocscrutinizer: anonymous trolling is more effective, so no link =)16:03
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hiemanshuso I wrote my first C++ Qt app :D It takes two numbers and add em, well its a start :)16:03
DocScrutinizerGonzoTheGreat: could you give me a timestamp or unique keyword to search for, so I find out what's been your idea?16:04
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lcukhiemanshu, congratulations :)16:05
hiemanshulcuk: thank you, Qt is nice, know quite a bit of it, its the C++ part thats kinda scary :P16:06
lcuknow you can use your "addition" machine logic to create "multiplication"16:06
GonzoTheGreatNo name: I suggest having two lock screen options. 1) c++ static with configuration to turn things on/off e.g. battery status, song info etc16:06
lcukwith the simple inclusion of a loop16:06
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: duh, Qt *is* C++16:06
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I meant, I know PyQt :P16:07
GonzoTheGreat2) blank slate qml. with just bindings provided thta you can do your own16:07
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I have written quite a few PyQt apps16:07
DocScrutinizeryeah, then you had rather little to deal with C++16:07
GonzoTheGreatoption two will most likely use more memory.16:07
GonzoTheGreatexcept all the bindings.16:08
GonzoTheGreatUnless you use the qprocess binidings I have done for quick-widgets16:08
DocScrutinizerI see16:09
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: yeah, all I did was use Qt Designer to design ui, then pyuic4 to convert it to python code, include it and done16:09
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GonzoTheGreatOptions 2) is what I will do first.16:09
GonzoTheGreatAll you get is auto-rotation and an unlock binding16:10
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GonzoTheGreatto start with16:10
DocScrutinizerprobably nothing wrong with it, GonzoTheGreat - aiui it takes memory only during state=locked16:11
GonzoTheGreatnope. because it will only be unmapped not destroyed16:11
MohammadAG<GonzoTheGreat> Ok so we should stick with the overlay?!16:12
MohammadAGyes, what's wrong with it?16:12
* DocScrutinizer curses QML for being another tool designed to ease developers' daywork at the expense of eating *everybody's* RAM16:13
ruskieof course16:13
ruskieanything that eases development will goble up ram16:13
GonzoTheGreatMohammadAG: what do you mean?16:13
MohammadAGwhat's wrong with the overlay?16:14
MohammadAGit doesn't break stuff16:14
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GonzoTheGreatIn your example is the original lock scre16:15
GonzoTheGreaten flashing up briefly?16:15
DocScrutinizer"look, this calculator can do + - * /, and it's expensive because it needs 2MB RAM - this is needed as it allowed our sw devels to use a tool that cut our sw development expense by 50%"16:15
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MohammadAGno, it can't flash briefly since it's stacked under the example16:16
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GonzoTheGreatok. sorry I didn't get a chance to try it yet.16:16
GonzoTheGreatsounds good then.16:16
javispedroDocscrutinizer: ram is cheap, programmers are expensive16:17
GonzoTheGreatSoC RAM isn't16:17
javispedro(battery life, on the other side..)16:17
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javispedroGonzoTheGreat: a gigabyte or so for $100? cheap.16:18
DocScrutinizerindeed, and RAM gets paid by assraped end users while developers are only doing a poor job to proove their own awesomness16:18
DocScrutinizerI.E. get poor untalented devels to give you a cheap sw you can run on expensive hw16:19
jacekowskijavispedro: but 100 users buying ram are not so cheap anymore16:19
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jacekowskiand if you think about piece of shit called SAP16:19
jacekowskithat needs like gazillion servers to run16:19
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lcukDocScrutinizer, just wait until the next generation come about16:19
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jacekowskiand lot of companies are using it16:19
javispedroI bet you mean shipping 100 devices with +$100 RAM16:20
lcukthose who will use New Super Wooooot inducing paradigm that grows on QML16:20
DocScrutinizerlcuk: can't wait for it...16:20
javispedrovs shipping 100 devices without that many RAM and hiring real developers.16:20
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lcukDocScrutinizer, this is not qml:
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SpeedEviljacekowski: And of course - 'upgrade' - has been the mantra of devs for the last 20 years. 'ram is cheap'16:20
lcukjavispedro, ^ also16:20
SpeedEvilAnd indeed it is - generally - if it's a 2-3 year old desktop.16:21
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SpeedEvilOtherwise - not so much.16:21
jacekowskiram is cheap but i prefer to spend £50 on something else16:21
lcukwhere do I plug in ram upgrade on my n900?16:21
SpeedEvillcuk: Exacly.16:21
jacekowskiinto memory card slot16:22
SpeedEvillcuk: Well - the strict answer is 'on top of the processor, after desoldering existing RAM'16:22
jacekowskiit's called swap16:22
* SpeedEvil stabs jacekowski.16:22
* DocScrutinizer announces the international QML bashing day16:22
jacekowskithinking about that16:22
jacekowskiit could work16:22
lcukjacekowski, and plaster of paris is an ideal replacement for a pair of jeans.16:22
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SpeedEvilSD - RAM card would be somewhat cool.16:22
javispedroyou need more memory => you run less things. don't ya ever learn from master steve jobs?16:22
RST38hSpeed: will still be slow16:22
RST38hthere is a controller between you and the card16:23
SpeedEvilThough optimised for flash swap, and SD supporting TRIM could be not quite as shitty.16:23
jacekowskiRST38h: controller can do more than average sd card16:23
SpeedEvilRST38h: Of course.16:23
RST38hAn 8bit or 16bit controller, with an 8bit or 16bit data path16:23
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SpeedEvilRST38h: But 12 meg a second is a hell of a lot better than most swap gets.16:23
SpeedEvil(and I know it's not nearly enough)16:23
RST38hAnd with no more than 8bit path to the SD card (this is for MMC+ only)16:23
DibblahI find it amusing that the SD card itsself has a CPU that's faster than my oldest phone's main CPU.16:23
RST38hFor your standard plasticky SD cards it is no more than 4 bits16:24
psycho_oreos<javispedro> you need more memory => you run less things. don't ya ever learn from master steve jobs? <-- is that why it took Apple that long to enable multitasking on their iphones since the beginning when it couldn't even really multitask?16:24
GonzoTheGreat/me is amused at the tangent16:24
javispedropsycho_oreos: you!16:24
javispedropsycho_oreos: you'll find current iphones can't even multitask.16:24
DibblahVery good read -
DibblahBunnie decapsulates a bunch of micro-SD cards.16:25
GonzoTheGreathow do I do /me in the irc conversation  plugin?16:25
psycho_oreosjavispedro, still! lol must be epic despite all the people moaning about the lack of multitasking capabilities.16:25
DocScrutinizerkick that plugin, get a decent IRC client!16:25
hiemanshumultitask what is that?16:26
DocScrutinizerDibblah: known, but thanks16:26
psycho_oreos~google multitask16:26
psycho_oreoslol damn16:26
DocScrutinizergoogle made her blow chunks16:26
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DocScrutinizer~wiki multitask16:27
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Multitasking' may refer to any of the following: *Computer multitasking - the apparent simultaneous performance of two or more tasks by a computer's central processing unit *Media multitasking could involve using a computer, mp3, or any other form of media in conjunction with one another. *Human multitasking - The ability of a person to perform more than one task at the same time. "16:27
psycho_oreosnice! too bad google had to go though :) rather handy to harness a big search machine16:27
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I know, its just I use an iPhone too, and well it mutlitasks decently16:27
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infobotDocScrutinizer: :)16:28
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DocScrutinizerinfobot: good bot16:29
infobotDocScrutinizer: aw, gee16:29
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GonzoTheGreatoff to bed for me. Back tomorrow.16:33
javispedroas decently as my palm pilot.16:33
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DocScrutinizerI don't think there's much confusion around apple's strategy regarding multitasking in iPhones. They didn't like the andridiot approach, and were scared about the maemo syndrome16:36
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DocScrutinizerso they invented their own way to deal with the issue16:37
psycho_oreoslike they do with every other case16:37
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javispedrothey didn't, they just replicated the way palm solved the issue last decade16:38
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psycho_oreose.g. antennagate issue, their solution? `We're not the ones at fault, other handsets have this issue as well.'16:38
DocScrutinizernow that it turns out maemo approach *can* work, apple is going to slowly gradually adopt this, by allowing a few "multitasking" bits16:38
javispedroI bet they will do the android way first16:38
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DocScrutinizerhonestly I'd prefer to go back to QML bashing - iPhone bashing is lame and boring16:40
javispedrothat is, your app is active but can TERM at any moment if not used in last N time units, and apps are STOPped when screen off16:40
javispedroqml sucks. just go the html5 route16:41
javispedrolicense webos!16:41
javispedrobut hp!16:41
rm_workhate that "fake multitasking"16:41
javispedro(or, be bought by HP!)16:41
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rm_workwhat are we talking about that might do that16:41
javispedrorm_work: the one I described? that is android.16:42
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rm_workbut you said "I bet they will do the android way first"... who is "they"?16:42
javispedroel jobso16:42
rm_workbut iOS already has a method for that?16:42
rm_workwhy would they be just starting it16:43
javispedrona, their current one is palmos-like16:43
rm_workright, so what do you mean "first"?16:43
DocScrutinizerjust sigstop16:43
rm_workthey already have a multitasking method16:43
DocScrutinizerindeed, that's a bit confusing16:43
javispedropalmos: only one UI process. every app gets stopped when you get back to homescreen/launcher, started when you launch it16:44
javispedrodevs get to implement their own state loading/saving routines16:44
DocScrutinizeriOS is way beyond that internally16:44
javispedroand you have notificacions so that not running apps can get exec() when something interesting happens16:45
DocScrutinizerthey already have real dispatcher, and only simulate the palm way16:45
javispedrolike "audio buffer nearly empty" or "network activity on port 7777"16:45
javispedroDocscrutinizer: if you mean they have a preemptive multitasking base Os,16:45
javispedrobe prepared to be surprised.16:45
javispedrothe palm pilot also had one.16:45
javispedrothe rule is : just one UI process.16:46
DocScrutinizerso it's kinda like maemo with no apps but desktop widgets ;-P16:46
DocScrutinizercheers for QML, fits in there quite nicely X-P16:47
psycho_oreosdidn't the old iOS lacked widgets?16:47
DocScrutinizerthat's cause every app is a "widget"16:48
DocScrutinizeron iOS16:48
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javispedrowell i do not think ios puts all all of them in the same process16:48
DocScrutinizerjust kidding a lil bit16:48
DocScrutinizeryeah, iOS is way beyond that, that's what I said16:49
DocScrutinizerand I don't see iOS adopt that concept now16:49
DocScrutinizerthat's what rm_work said16:50
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javispedroon pos the ui process just exec()d into app X, and expected app X to eventually exec() back into the launcher16:51
javispedroI'd expect ios to have a bit more "protection" :P16:51
rm_workwouldn't it be *EASIER* just to do proper multitasking? >_>16:51
javispedroeven if the core idea is the same16:51
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rm_workor is all this about saving battery16:52
jacekowskirm_work: batter life16:52
javispedrorm_work: benefit: week long batterylife for pilot16:52
javispedrocompare with wince models of the day16:52
rm_workor maemo <_<16:52
rm_worki get ~18h battery life16:52
rm_workok no, *sometimes* i can get 36-40 hours16:53
rm_workbut that's with "light usage"16:53
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rm_work(I put that in quotes because light usage for me might be what some consider moderate usage)16:54
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javispedroheh. nintendo admits using xbox360 footage for yesterdays wiiU demo.16:58
kerionot for all the footage though16:59
keriothe bird one was the most impressive one16:59
kerioindependant cameras with independant blur, 1080p and 480p16:59
javispedroI'd expect to be disappointed when the specs are announced16:59
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javispedroaccording to random internet guy  mr. guy the sdk had 4 core ppc with smt clocked at 3.5, so that's the upper bound :)17:01
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RST38h...he intends to exterminate Australia's vast population of feral camels by means of gunfire from helicopters and jeeps, so preventing the beasts from unleashing a deadly planet-wrecking miasma of greenhouse gas from their rumbling guts...17:11
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* krayon feels safe17:15
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crashanddieRST38h, I'm all for it17:19
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crashanddieRST38h, as long as the camel meat is sent to countries where they need it17:19
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DocScrutinizerrm_work: I get like 7 days of standby here, same as with palmpilot basically17:20
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krayonWhere are these camels anyway?  There's none here in Melbourne that I can see :/17:20
DocScrutinizerand palmpilot also was dead after 4 hours of playing a game that had constantly moving sprites17:20
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cityLights~seen Khertan17:25
infobotkhertan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 1h 35m 11s ago, saying: 'i ll look thx'.17:25
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GAN900Speculation time.18:30
GAN900So, assume we've got some sort of announcement coming up on the 21st.18:31
GAN900But, as of right now, we have no real information about hardware or software.18:31
GAN900Most notably: no SDK.18:31
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GAN900Given the rumors about the consumer and the dev device18:32
SpeedEvilIt's a t-shirt.18:32
GAN900does that mean the announcement coming up will basically be an SDK release with hardware?18:32
merlin1991SpeedEvil: plain, or does it have a print?18:33
GAN900SpeedEvil, and how much RAM?18:33
* merlin1991 out18:33
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SpeedEvilWhen was the n900/maemo 5 SDK released?18:34
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SpeedEvilBefore/after announce/18:34
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javispedroaanounce of what?18:39
lardmanIt was released before announcement iirc, but only to some devs18:39
javispedrothat a N810+1 would be released was known since forever, like we know a N900+1 will be released these days18:39
javispedroby that logic, sdk was after announcement18:39
lardmanah no, it was released beforehand to everyone wasn't it, and Nokia asked everyone to prepare their packages18:39
javispedronow, official announcement of the device happened way after SDK...18:39
javispedro*beta sdk18:39
lardmanGAN900: I have the same questions though, if we do see some hw, will it just be for devs and come with an SDK and api docs all prepared18:40
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lardmanin preparation for some other consumer device to come at a later date for example18:41
lardmanor perhaps Harmattan is good enough to not need developers' apps to begin with :)18:41
javispedroor they do not care any more18:41
javispedroan option that gets my vote..18:41
lardmanpossible, hard to know what's going on with the dearth of communications18:42
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, a months before hardware.18:43
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SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: Ah - thanks18:43
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RST38hWait. Harmattan SDK out?18:46
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SpeedEvilOh wow!
SpeedEvil(is completely blank)18:47
MohammadAGnope, says 404 for me18:50
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MohammadAGQt Creator says Maemo 6/Harmattan somewhere18:51
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DocScrutinizerlardman: that's all my hope - "meego harmattan turns out to be just maemo5 with some custom themes" see
DocScrutinizerI mean, really WHO would want to see devels move to a platform that's neither backward compatible to maemo5, nor forward compatible to anything never to come18:57
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MohammadAGwasn't there a 3D version of xkcd at some point?18:59
* DocScrutinizer waiting for the usual apologetics to jump up and shouting "BUT, BUT... there's Qt!!!"18:59
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Cor-AiMohammadAG: 1 och april i think19:00
* DocScrutinizer not seeing the rationale behind a proof about Qt allegedly can safe future of a stillborn OS19:01
MohammadAGfound it http://3d.xkcd.com19:01 we could do same proof on maemo5 as well19:01
yigalhey I like qml cutetube?19:02
yigalI don't know about saving an os either, though19:02
DocScrutinizerand should have done it since ages, tho be brecise since meego came with bold statements about the code-once-just-recompile compatibility to maemo19:02
DocScrutinizeryay, "... to be precise..."19:03
MohammadAGMeeGo ruined Qt imo19:03
yigalhow so?19:03
lardmanWell I guess that Qt should be more fully supported in the backends dept, which would make migration easy19:03
yigalMohammadAG: that's a funny xkcd19:03
MohammadAGfirst they encouraged MeeGo Touch Framework (which wasn't that bad, except not portable)19:03
MohammadAGthen they deprecated it19:04
* lardman heads home, will continue the conversation there19:04
yigalbut just once recompile it?19:04
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MohammadAGNokia also encouraged Qt development19:04
MohammadAGthen they dropped QWidget for QML19:04
yigalbut then that's on Nokia not Meego19:04
MohammadAGwhich is as we all know, very very very light on memory19:05
MohammadAGinsert massive sarcasm quotes19:05
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MohammadAGMeeGo lacks a Qt theme (last I checked), only QML is actually usable19:05
MohammadAGSociality for example, uses about 27MBs of RAM when displaying a full 250-ish photo album19:06
DocScrutinizerso bottom line: if maemo6 aka meego_harmattan is anything else than just a 100% compatible upgrade to maemo5, it's worthless and my favourite target for bitching and hate19:06
MohammadAGwith QML, I'd expect that to be 50ish19:06
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merlin1991MohammadAG: make a qml ui for sociality just for the lulz19:09
merlin1991then "benchmark" it :P19:09
MohammadAGmerlin1991, waste of time :p19:10
yigalnothing like pancakes in the morning19:11
yigalwith black coffee19:11
merlin1991cut the coffe part19:11
javispedroDocScrutinizer: 100% compatible upgrade? How much have you been with Nokia?19:11
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yigalmerlin1991: :D19:14
javispedrofscking ms support site changes URL so much they basically already dump all of the URL path components into bing and redirect you into the first result.19:15
javispedrono matter what link you follow.19:16
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Venemo_N900good afternoon19:17
andre__DocScrutinizer, let me promise that it's worthless for you, by your definition19:17
yigalcb22 is developing this alternative email client called immoral, it would have been funnier if he called it arrogant19:18
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yigalor some like ImBetter email client19:19
DocScrutinizerandre__: that's what I'm hosestly afraid of, for maemo/meego's sake19:19
yigaldoes the Cordia project make you feel a bit better?19:20
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yigalI guess not19:22
Venemo_N900yo DocScrutinizer19:22
Venemo_N900I seem to be late from an interesting discussion19:23
javispedroDocScrutinizer: between diablo and fremantle the main differences were... the compositor. and a few upgraded libraries. now ask anyone how much effort costs to keep a single piece of software between the two platforms.19:23
DocScrutinizeryigal: cordia makes me feel better about meego, not though about the use of that meego_harmattan chimera19:24
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DocScrutinizers/use ( purpose /19:24
javispedroI mean, Nokia and seeamless upgrade on the same sentence...19:24
javispedroseamless, compatible, etc.19:25
Venemo_N900javispedro, it doesn't cost me more than a bunch of ifdefs19:25
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: my point19:25
javispedroVenemo_N900: probably because you don't have software that triggers gcc bugs on diablo =)19:25
Venemo_N900javispedro :P19:26
javispedroDocScrutinizer: but this is not new then, as andre__ says, by that definition you can rest 100% assured Meego will suck for you :P19:26
Venemo_N900well, with meego (not harmattan), nokia's crappyness is out of the picture for good19:26
DocScrutinizerthere's simply no obvious benefit out of that meego_harmattan thing. It's just yet another incompatible platform with no parents and no future19:26
javispedroI have other requeriments, like, will we really see the supposedly faster/lessmemoryconsuming Qt, well, faster and less memory consuming?19:27
javispedroor, will the increased number of components be worth it?19:27
javispedro*open components19:27
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: and harmattan IS NOT meego, for all I got19:27
javispedrowell, replace Meego with Harmattan.19:27
javispedroin my previous sentences.19:27
Venemo_N900harmattan is crap19:28
Venemo_N900but I think we have all agreed on that a long time ago19:28
DocScrutinizerthat's the crux, replacing meego by harmattan changes the meaning of it all19:28
javispedroWell, not sure.19:28
javispedroMeego I've seen.19:29
javispedroHarmattan I am yet to see, but hey, if they plan to sell it, it _must_ work.19:29
DocScrutinizerharmattan != meego != maemo19:29
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DocScrutinizerso WTF *is* harmattan supposed to be?19:29
Venemo_N900fortunately because of meego's branding policy, they won't be able to brand harmattan as meego19:29
javispedrohas that been decided already?19:30
yigala level of crap, right?19:30
javispedroDocScrutinizer: harmattan = maemo 6.19:30
Venemo_N900javispedro, I think so, but I'm not 100% sure19:30
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DocScrutinizerwell, IF it really is then my concerns are down to "will they get it right THIS time?"19:30
javispedroVenemo_N900: I doubt it at this point.19:30
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, no they won't19:31
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: big NO. better question. "Will it be good enough?"19:31
DocScrutinizeralso "will it be worth the effort of upgrading?"19:31
andre__upgrading what?19:31
Venemo_N900both Diablo and Fremantle were "good enough"19:31
DocScrutinizerupgrading maemo5 to maemo619:31
Venemo_N900but I don't think I would ever buy the harmattan device19:31
Venemo_N900I _may_ "upgrade" my N900 to MeeGo once it becomes usable enough19:32
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javispedrothat will never happen.19:32
javispedroforget about it.19:32
Venemo_N900harmattan is just another "don't care" thing for me19:32
javispedrostatistics says the N900+1 and Harmattan will be "good enough".19:32
andre__MeeGo N900 DE != Harmattan19:32
javispedroso, everyone will quickly migrate to it.19:33
javispedroN900 will be completely forgotten.19:33
Venemo_N900javispedro, why, I think MeeGo DE is almost good enough on N900 right now19:33
Venemo_N900anyhow, I doubt that I'll replace my N900 in the foreseeable future19:34
javispedrowell, tell that to Stskeeps, that's surely to cheer him up after the abill_uk fiasco :)19:34
javispedroVenemo_N900: you remind me of myself, 2 years younger, with my N810 in hand.19:34
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javispedroVenemo_N900: to quoth myself, "I'll port the DIablo UI to the N900".19:35
javispedroguess what. never really cared enough.19:35
javispedroso I've learnt not to repeat the same mistake.19:35
javispedrothe quote must be still somewhere in this channel's logs...19:35
Venemo_N900javispedro, if someone gets a real meego device out of their door with a decent enough UX, I'll probably buy19:35
Venemo_N900but that will highly likely not be nokia19:36
* DocScrutinizer feels like his linux desktop distro announced the'll ship each new rev with KDE++ now, so KDE5 in 2 months, KDE6 in 8 months and so on. That's what Nokia's concept about maemo, harmattan, meego etc feels like19:36
Venemo_N900I doubt that harmattan's ux will be that good.19:37
javispedroas said, you're echoing the feelings I had two years ago.19:37
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, the ridiculous thing about it is that harmattan was already late in its schedule at the point when they announced "the merge"19:37
javispedro"the fremantle ux sucks. task switching using 2 taps! no fullscreen mode in all apps!"19:37
Venemo_N900so I don't understand why they didn't just drop the whole project19:38
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MOUDHey all19:38
Venemo_N900javispedro, why, task switch took 2 taps with diablo too19:38
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: oh?19:39
javispedroVenemo_N900: no -- task navigator.19:39
MOUDI have reflashed my n900 but the Repositories: Extras-Testing and Extras-Devel are not working. Is there any change for them?19:39
vldcnst?seen pupkin19:39
DocScrutinizerI seem to be able to click a limited number of tasks directly on left lower side19:39
vldcnst!seen pupkin19:39
vldcnstseen bot?19:39
Venemo_N900javispedro, yeah, but only for the first few apps19:40
vldcnst-seen pupkin19:40
* vldcnst slaps infobot19:40
DocScrutinizer~bite vldcnst19:40
* infobot takes a big bite out of vldcnst's jugular vein19:40
vldcnst~seen pupnik19:40
* vldcnst slaps infobot harder19:40
infobotpupnik <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11d 7h 9m 2s ago, saying: 'o/'.19:40
javispedroer... hello pupnik, how ya going19:41
DocScrutinizerpupnik got banned on own explicit request19:41
vldcnstpolitical reasons?19:41
DocScrutinizerask him, not me19:41
merlin1991MOUD: since everyone is busy finding pupnik, what do you mean with not working?19:44
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javispedroVenemo_N900: an ages improvement over the fremantle approach to task switching, due to 90% / 10% rule. Most of the time I'm switching between 2 apps only.19:44
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Venemo_N900javispedro, I understand19:44
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merlin1991also monsoon style rain here atm, wtf=19:45
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Venemo_N900but the good side is that this way you get more screen space for each app19:45
MOUDmerlin1991: Those 2 repositories gives me error 404. Are the links changed or removed?19:45
merlin1991what urls do you have?19:45
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: that's why MHD made my day, meh year19:45
javispedroVenemo_N900: that's where the second complain comes in. On N810 you had pervasive full screen support19:45
merlin1991MOUD: I have "deb fremantle-1.3 free non-free" for devel in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list19:46
DocScrutinizerMOUD: nothing known, maybe you added a typo when adding the repos?19:46
Venemo_N900javispedro, ah, yeah. I never used that feature because it prevented me from effective task switching19:46
MOUDI'm checking the web link i used19:47
* javispedro notes the irony of the situation, but hw buttons save the day.19:47
DocScrutinizerone-click add of repos19:47
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Venemo_N900javispedro :)19:48
MOUDgoing to use the link19:48
MOUDjust restarted my phone19:48
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javispedrobuahahaha diablo-based n900
MohammadAGdoesn't look half bad :p19:51
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javispedroincludes what seem to be hardware front buttons!19:52
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: one of the awesome fakes19:52
javispedrolet's rumour on it like it was 2009.19:52
javispedrosince we have no interesting 2011 fakes.19:52
DocScrutinizerdamn, I'll LOVE this device19:53
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DocScrutinizerhope it'll come with a resistive touchpad as god as my N810's19:53
DocScrutinizerbut the kbd layout... EEEW19:53
merlin1991ctrl on the right end, wtf?19:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer: that's it, that's the spirit!19:54
DocScrutinizerwhere are the fekkin cursor keys?19:54
javispedrogood point.19:55
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javispedromeanwhile, apple plans to build a mothership19:58
javispedroas new HQs.19:58
DocScrutinizerwill it hover over SF?19:58
Venemo_N900no, it will orbit mars19:58
DocScrutinizerwill some nerd bring it down with a virus from a windows laptop?19:59
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MOUDDocScrutinizer, I think it worked.19:59
MOUDThanks merlin1991 and DocScrutinizer for the support :)20:00
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no need, just jailbreak the beta20:07
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javispedroso nitdroid is stupidly overclocked to 700Mhz by default?20:20
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javispedrohi lardman20:21
* lardman realises he didn't do a very good job of re-joining the conversation20:21
lardmanhey javispedro20:21
lardmanjavispedro: you were indeed right about Ubuntu and the umounting using the ui stuff20:21
javispedrolardman: it is on my todo list to understand what is happening behind the scenes20:21
javispedrobecause i have nfi why it happens20:22
lardmando let me know if you find out20:22
RST38hSurrounded by top Republicans and Democrats, President Obama signs the $858 billion tax cut deal that extends the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for another two years.20:22
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lardmanI thought he was faced with a cap on the total borrowings?20:22
lardmanor debt if you will20:23
* lardman has troubles re-adjusting to windows not moving focus with the mouse. Argh20:23
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RST38hlardman: he was faced with angry republican lobbyists who wanted their tax cut20:26
RST38hlardman: fuck the cap...20:27
GeneralAntillesMore tax cuts, less entitlement spending.20:27
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derflardman: The debt ceiling gets raised regularly like clockwork.20:27
derfIt doesn't actually limit anything.20:27
RST38hGen: Getting any sizable tax cuts? :)20:28
GeneralAntillesMe, personally? Don't think so.20:30
RST38hGen: make some conclusions.20:30
lardmanderf: I was laughing yesterday at the potential jump from BBB- to junk for Nokia bonds - seems like they have limited the available alphabet a little, like our GCSE and A-levels over here20:31
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derfBBB- is the last prime or "investment grade" rating in the S&P scheme.20:34
derfThere are of course a lot of varieties of "junk".20:34
* DocScrutinizer ponders to buy Nokia on penny stock level20:37
RST38hMeanwhile: Apple has become the world's largest OEM buyer of seminconductors, leaving both Hewlett-Packard and Samsung in the dust, according to industry research outfit IHS iSuppli20:37
RST38hDoc: then burn it, while dancing around the fire and giggling?20:37
javispedroprobably to be used into their mothership20:37
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lardmanthanks derf20:47
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RST38hLooks more like an "operation in progress" icon20:50
javispedrois it me or does el jobso resemble Spock more and more every day20:51
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RST38hjavispedro: it is the vice versa20:52
RST38hSteve invented Spock!20:52
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javispedroin a few years they'll hire him for the Nth StarTrek reboot.20:54
RST38hHe won't live this long =(20:55
GeneralAntillesPoor bastard.20:55
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GeneralAntillesApple's not going to be the same without him.20:55
RST38hYep, as much as I hate the cult20:56
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swordihello guys21:02
swordianyone running maemo on hd2?21:03
swordii tried it, but it didn't work for me, so i switched back 2 android21:03
RST38hgood for you, except that maemo does not run on hd221:03
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swordithere are maemo builds out there21:04
RST38hbecause it is square while hd2 is round.21:04
swordii'm not sure if this has something to do with the shape of the hd221:05
wmaronethere are no "maemo" builds for anything but the N90021:05
wmaroneI think you mean "MeeGo"21:05
GeneralAntilles(and the N810, N800, and 770)21:05
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wmaroneGeneralAntilles: but are they really the same?21:05
swordiis there a n900 emulator for the hd2 ?21:06
javispedrothey are all square.21:06
swordibut i want maemo on my hd221:06
RST38hAh, the trolls nowadays...21:06
RST38hEasily replacable with a small Perl script.21:06
GeneralAntillesWell, if it's lowercase maemo, then yes. :P21:06
GeneralAntillesswordi, then you want an N900.21:06
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swordiGeneralAntilles, ok, i will buy one21:07
javispedroGeneralAntilles: maybe he/she wants a 770.21:07
swordithank you for you help21:07
RST38hswordi: You ave said you are already running maemo on your hd221:07
swordino i said i tried it21:07
RST38hswordi: So, how come you "want it"?21:07
swordibut it didnt work as i already mentioned21:07
swordibecause i want it working21:07
swordianyway, will order a n900 now21:08
swordithank you guys for your help!21:08
GeneralAntillesN9 is going to be out week after next and swordi's going to be so disappointed.21:09
javispedroGeneralAntilles: I was going to congratulate RST38h on assing such a hard sale21:10
swordiwhat advantages has n921:10
swordiin comparison to n90021:10
swordii don't see any differences, except its more expensive21:10
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Venemo_N900noone knows yet21:11
MohammadAGno one even knows the price21:11
javispedrono one _should_ know the differences21:12
MohammadAGor the specs21:12
MohammadAGinsert javispedro's should in all my statements21:13
ShadowJKHeck, it's getting difficult to know the price of N900 too21:13
MohammadAGstill $500 in local stores here21:13
GeneralAntillesswordi: basically it comes down to it being 2.5 years newer, though. ;)21:14
javispedroGeneralAntilles: wait until the announcement before making that statemement.21:14
javispedro"just in case".21:15
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ShadowJKYeah I was going to say 1-1.5 years newer :P21:15
swordiwell, if someone would ask me if i would buy a hd7 or hd2, i would choose hd2, same hardware, other case21:15
GAN900javispedro, hehe21:15
javispedroall I know is that we can safely assume it is 0.5 years newer.21:15
DocScrutinizersure about that?21:17
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GAN900The first announcement came during Amsterdam.21:18
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DocScrutinizerit might as well be N900 predecessor that got postponed due to availability of SoC ;-P21:18
javispedrowell, I do not think it's going to be an OMAP2.21:18
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javispedrobut who knows maybe they fixed the mbx drivers.21:18
DocScrutinizernah, OMAP4 been around as vaporware since ages21:18
* javispedro repartitions sd card, total number of OSes = 421:19
SpeedEvilOmap4 has been sampling on panda only for a few months I think21:19
DocScrutinizerit's actually not unheard that a design gets postponed to go for a downgraded successor21:19
SpeedEvilIt may have been sampling before then21:19
javispedro what was announced on Amsterdam was OMAP36.21:20
MohammadAGhasn't the N950 been available/leaked in 2010?21:20
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I never seen any hw design getting started only after first samples of key components shipped from the chip manufs21:20
DocScrutinizeryou start way earlier21:20
javispedroMohammadAG: even earlier.21:20
javispedroMohammadAG: but, "N950"? cmon.21:20
DocScrutinizerthen eventually sometimes you learn your components are discontinued prematurely or simply late by years, and you bin the whole thing, or postpone it21:21
MohammadAGjavispedro, N9? That's WP721:21
javispedroyes, a keyboard-ed WP7 device..21:22
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer; yeah - I know.21:23
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG: N950 is a metaphor.21:23
SpeedEvilno, it's the last best hope for peace.21:23
DocScrutinizerso for all we know the omap36 N999 could actually be N900 predecessor ;-P21:23
MohammadAGfor Duke Nukem Forever?21:23
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, we don't actually have a model name for N900+1 (N9 is currently still the most likely, though).21:24
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, didn't Nokia say it was N950?21:24
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, that was an illustration device. To say the N900+1 was more like an N950 than anything else.21:24
GeneralAntilles(N900, but more)21:25
DocScrutinizernokia didn't say anything, as they *never* do21:25
MohammadAGk, I'll use RM-680 till it's announced21:25
javispedrouse N900+1.21:25
RST38hUse the "Last1"21:25
MohammadAGsorry, that's like N900/0 to me21:25
RST38hit sounds more hip21:25
javispedroor just say "the thing", like I do in RL casual conversation.21:25
GeneralAntillesThat's hip.21:26
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Venemo_N900why N950? why not N910?21:26
Venemo_N900whatever, I don't care21:27
javispedroGeneralAntilles: indeed, potentially the best name :)21:27
RST38h"2L8" is definitely ultra hip21:27
RST38hNokia 2L821:27
GeneralAntillesVenemo_N900: because it's more of an upgrade than the N800 -> N810.21:27
Trewasif the huge thread in TMO is to be believed there are actually two N900+1 devices, a developer-only model with keyboard and a keyboardless device they will actually sell, the consumer device presumably being newer/better hardware21:27
GeneralAntillesSince the N810 was just an N800 with a keyboard and a transflective screen.21:28
javispedroGeneralAntilles: as I was saying, wait until the announcement to make those bold statements.21:28
Venemo_N900then let's call it N100021:28
RST38hTrewas: do not believe stuff you see on tmo21:28
SpeedEvil  The first person to mention the n950 was acidjazz on the 20th of october21:28
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, source wasn't TMO.21:28
GeneralAntillesI'd put some faith in that one.21:28
RST38hwill see21:28
GeneralAntillesGiven the number of RM-* codes.21:28
GeneralAntillesIndeed we will.21:28
SpeedEvil2009-10-20.021943+0100BST.txt:(10:00:38 PM) acidjazz: oh wait this is the n950 no wonder its 1/2 as thick w/ 1024x768 res and a 5 row kb. oh an umbrella too nice.21:28
Venemo_N900SpeedEvil, that 'N950' was just a concept drawing from some random guy21:28
RST38hto me, TWO Harmattan devices sounds like one too many21:28
RST38hGiven the clusterfuck21:29
Venemo_N900two harmattan devices are two too many21:29
SpeedEvilRST38h: I dunno.21:29
javispedroand since I believe a dev-only device is commercial suicide, it'll be probably cancelled.21:29
SpeedEvilRST38h: I could believe two harmattan devices released - each released by a seperate arm of Nokia that diddn't know of the other.21:29
javispedrospecially when Elop gets news of that =)21:29
javispedromaybe it's part of Elops plan to bring nokia stock to the penny.21:30
GeneralAntillesThen Nokia can buy them up for pennies!21:30
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Then MS can buy them up for pennies!21:30
javispedrothose kinds of Nokia buying Nokia stock jokes remind me of Palm/PalmSource/PalmOne21:31
javispedroanother clusterfsck.21:31
RST38hyes but that one was well deserved21:32
RST38hREALLY bad engineering at the end there21:32
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MohammadAGwhere are gconf values stored?21:52
prontoover there *points*21:52
javispedroMohammadAG: on Maemo? /var/lib/gconf/sth21:52
javispedro770-days heritage iirc.21:52
MohammadAGty javispedro21:52
MohammadAGexpected somewhere in $HOME21:52
MohammadAGoh well21:52
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javispedroso, why does MohammadAG appear as maintainer of multiboot?22:13
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MohammadAGjavispedro, I helped with packaging and stuff22:21
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GAN900Evil bastard.22:34
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MohammadAGGAN900, sue me22:39
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* hiemanshu gets the lawyers to send the papers to MohammadAG22:41
MohammadAGI'm under 18, you can't sue a minor22:41
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povbotBug 9943: MfE Wizard fails if exchange server hostname has IPv4 and IPv6 addresses22:59
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Gh0stysince this is ipv6 day after all :p22:59
Macerwtf23:00 won't work with mfe23:00
Macerdid google get rid of exchange support?23:01
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alteregoHrm, how to keep two N900s in sync ..23:02
alteregoMaybe rsync, but that'd be quite heavy me thinks.23:02
MohammadAGquestion is, why sync two N900s :P23:04
acidjazz[18:28] < SpeedEvil> 2009-10-20.021943+0100BST.txt:(10:00:38 PM) acidjazz: oh wait this is the n950 no wonder its 1/2 as thick w/ 1024x768 res and a 5 row23:04
acidjazz                     kb. oh an umbrella too nice.23:04
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MohammadAGthis changes everything :P23:39
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