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| SpeedEvil | Maemo is composed of open source, and binary components. | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| SpeedEvil | The opensource bits cannot work without the closed source parts, which are only designed and licenced to run on teh n900 | 00:03 |
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| zsolt | thank you | 00:05 |
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| Macer | SpeedEvil: well maybe someone should fix mail for exchange :) | 00:07 |
| Macer | so the damn calendars work with google | 00:07 |
| Serpher | Can any program made to run on Linux run on maemo? | 00:08 |
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| Serpher | Also can Android apps run on Maemo? I saw Angry Birds on one. | 00:08 |
| lcuk | angry birds is available on maemo natively | 00:08 |
| lcuk | Serpher, depends on the libraries required | 00:09 |
| Serpher | Couldn't I just intstall those libraries? | 00:09 |
| lcuk | and how much faff you want, re porting and screenresolution | 00:09 |
| lcuk | and whether the app was designed for .... blah blah | 00:09 |
| Serpher | Ok, would I be able to install Android on an N900 and still have it fully functional? | 00:09 |
| lcuk | Serpher, if the library has not been added to repositories already, someone will have to do it | 00:10 |
| lcuk | what is android? | 00:10 |
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| Serpher | lcuk: Couldn't I just get the source code and compile it on the tablet? Also Android the phone OS made by Google. | 00:10 |
| Serpher | It uses Linux just with modified "clean" headers. | 00:10 |
| lcuk | Serpher, depends what you mean by "just", you can certainly download minimal required sdk and build stuff | 00:11 |
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| lcuk | but time and disk space are the normal limitations, along with non standard busybox tooling | 00:11 |
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| Serpher | What do you mean by "busybox tooling"? | 00:13 |
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| lcuk | Serpher, not standard gnu tools, so things which normal builds require (like tar for instance) use the slightly modified versions | 00:14 |
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| lcuk | installing the gnu tools themselves have a bit of an issue too | 00:15 |
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| Serpher | Couldn't I just work around that by installing those variations of the tools? | 00:15 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:15 |
| lcuk | but the maemo boot scripts use the variations.. | 00:15 |
| lcuk | so, you either have standard tools and potential bootup issues, or non standard tools and sdk build issues | 00:16 |
| BCMM | ok, so I think my N900 USB port has gone now | 00:16 |
| BCMM | what can I do? does nokia still repair these? how much does it cost? (UK) | 00:16 |
| lcuk | BCMM, is it still physically connected? | 00:16 |
| Serpher | lcuk: Guess I'll just have to play around with it when I get my N900. | 00:16 |
| lcuk | yep | 00:16 |
| BCMM | lcuk: yes, but it looks a little twisted | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: Free warranty for 2 years | 00:17 |
| lcuk | BCMM, I did mine with a little fold of card | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI | 00:17 |
| lcuk | it pushed the usb connector back onto the board | 00:17 |
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| BCMM | i mean, it appears slightly rotated relative to the phone's case | 00:17 |
| BCMM | also, no data or power seems to go through | 00:17 |
| BCMM | lcuk: did what? jammed it back in to position? | 00:18 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: what does warranty mean? new/fixed n900, or new phone that isn't an n900? | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | new fixed | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI | 00:18 |
| lcuk | yes, it was a bit finnicky, so I did that | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Spare parts are still available | 00:18 |
| BCMM | pretty sure it's been less than 2 years | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | It has. | 00:19 |
| BCMM | still hasn't been out two years, has it? | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 00:19 |
| BCMM | my thinking was that the 18mo contract i had when i got it is still going | 00:19 |
| BCMM | so what? i ring up nokia and i can get them to fix it for me? | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it, yes. | 00:20 |
| BCMM | thanks | 00:20 |
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| BCMM | anyone here done this, and happen to know which bit of nokia i should call? | 00:20 |
| BCMM | oh, this warranty, is it possible to void it from the software side? | 00:21 |
| BCMM | (without overclocking) | 00:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | I doubt it in practice. | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | In theory, you can intentuionally destroy the phone | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Setting voltage regulators out of spec | 00:22 |
| BCMM | i guess i'm just used to stupid rules | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | backup first of course | 00:22 |
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| BCMM | from being a linux user and trying to hide this from laptop vendors | 00:22 |
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| BCMM | yeah, i know i need to backup | 00:23 |
| BCMM | since they might replace the whole unit or something | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 00:23 |
| BCMM | HP was really cool about this, actually. they let me keep the laptop's HDs when i sent it in | 00:23 |
| BCMM | even seemed pleased i was reducing their shipping weight that way | 00:23 |
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| BCMM | but i know that some laptop vendors will try and void it for installing a different OS on, so i guess being used to that made me paranoid that custom kernels and so on would be a problem | 00:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | Speaking personally, I'd wipe it and flash it. | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh | 00:25 |
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| BCMM | SpeedEvil: ha ha. | 00:26 |
| BCMM | :) | 00:26 |
| BCMM | flashing is the only reason i care | 00:26 |
| BCMM | i mean, you can get external battery chargers, and i very seldom use mass storage mode anyway | 00:26 |
| BCMM | sftp FTW; cables are fiddly | 00:27 |
| BCMM | but i thouroughly intend to brick this device many more times in the future | 00:27 |
| BCMM | having to not risk a reflash would be boring | 00:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | rsync | 00:28 |
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| Serpher | Can anybody tell my why Maemo > Android or Android > Maemo? I'm split on what I should get. I'm scared I won't get the app selection Android has. | 00:29 |
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| Sc0rpius | if you want tons of applications get Android | 00:32 |
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| Sc0rpius | if you want a very powerful phone with real multitasking and don't bother to code your own software, then get Maemo or wait a little longer to get a Meego phone | 00:32 |
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| BCMM | Serpher: maemo is a proper linux distro | 00:34 |
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| BCMM | it has it's idiosyncracies, but it has glibc, xorg, and so on | 00:35 |
| BCMM | you can basically recompile a linux application for ARM and run it on maemo | 00:35 |
| BCMM | (though obviously the UI could usually use a few tweaks, like bigger buttons) | 00:35 |
| Serpher | I want maemo because I can do a lot with Linux, but I want my smartphone to feel like a proper smartphone like Android/iOS | 00:36 |
| BCMM | well, what makes it a "proper" one? | 00:36 |
| BCMM | i may not have used android/iOS enough to understand this | 00:37 |
| BCMM | the n900 mostly feels like a proper laptop to me | 00:37 |
| Serpher | I'm scared it'll be much like Linux is on the Desktop xD. Yes, it's terrific and makes sense but you miss out on a lot like gaming and high-quality apps. | 00:37 |
| BCMM | there is a much smaller selection of applications, yes | 00:37 |
| BCMM | though i wouldn't call android's nor apple's app stores a haven of high-quality apps | 00:38 |
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| Serpher | I guess I'll have a look around OVI | 00:39 |
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| BCMM | i wouldn't bother with ovi, tbh | 00:39 |
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| BCMM | well, most of hte stuff i use isn't from there, anyway | 00:39 |
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| BCMM | the open-source stuff is largely in maemo extras | 00:39 |
| BCMM | ovi store is the "app store" | 00:40 |
| BCMM | it's where you get angry birds and gimicky things | 00:40 |
| BCMM | there may even be a fart app, dunno | 00:40 |
| BCMM | here's an example of why i find the proper smartphone OSs somewhat amusing: | 00:40 |
| BCMM | saw people on slashdot arguing about the best SSH clients for iOS and android | 00:41 |
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| BCMM | actually, where would one go to get an overview of the most popular maemo extras apps? | 00:42 |
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| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/thankedposts.php?since=365 ? :P | 00:43 |
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| BCMM | MohammadAG: was that an answer to me? | 00:45 |
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| BCMM | hmm, it's a page saying that most popular applications are ones MohammadAG was involved with... | 00:46 |
| BCMM | ;) | 00:46 |
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| Serpher | I think I'll probably end up going with the Maemo. I like the layout too much plus there's always the bonus of being able to be a pretentious neckbeard xD | 00:48 |
| BCMM | heh | 00:48 |
| BCMM | i'm really curious as to what a proper smartphone is supposed to be like | 00:48 |
| BCMM | i mean, this is very much like using a desktop, since it's just X but with a WM that's suited to a small screen | 00:48 |
| kerio | BCMM: it needs a nuclear battery, for one thing | 00:48 |
| BCMM | kerio: no, i want to carry it in my pocket :( | 00:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a nuclear fission device in my pocket. | 00:49 |
| Serpher | BCMM: I'll explain when I get back from dinner | 00:49 |
| SpeedEvil | It glows green. | 00:49 |
| BCMM | i mean, you do stuff with some application, alt-tab to some other application, close them when you're finished with them | 00:49 |
| SpeedEvil | (alas with only around 100nW of power.) | 00:50 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: is it a glowing keychain? | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 00:50 |
| BCMM | yes, it gets slow if you have to many open. desktops demonstrate that adults can deal with this and close something | 00:50 |
| BCMM | s/to/too/ | 00:50 |
| infobot | BCMM meant: yes, it gets slow if you have too many open. desktops demonstrate that adults can deal with this and close something | 00:50 |
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| BCMM | SpeedEvil: tritium? | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 00:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'd not be so happy to have most other glowing isotopes in my pocket. | 00:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Tritium is basically completley safe as long as you don't crack the container. | 00:51 |
| BCMM | yeah, really really efficient transformation of mass into light | 00:51 |
| BCMM | and no gamma produced | 00:51 |
| SpeedEvil | And if you do that, you need to crack it, while inhaling over a naked flame. | 00:51 |
| BCMM | yep | 00:51 |
| SpeedEvil | And do about 10 of those, and you've hit the maximum dose | 00:52 |
| BCMM | in general, only gamma is really dangerous, unless you somehow get it inside you | 00:52 |
| BCMM | at which point gamma is the least of your worries | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | There exist near-UV gammas. | 00:52 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: nice use of "do". somehow brings drugs to mind and now i can see somebody trying to snort tritium keychains | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - one. | 00:52 |
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| BCMM | damnit, why does my USB port have to go when the battery is almost flat? | 00:54 |
| BCMM | and i'm going to have to send it for repair when i want to be testing stuff on it | 00:54 |
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| BCMM | anyone in the UK sent their phone to Nokia for repair? how long does it tend to take? | 00:57 |
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| BCMM | oh wow | 01:04 |
| BCMM | just realised the implications of no USB | 01:04 |
| BCMM | before i send this to nokia, i need to do backups, over wlan, with no change to recharge... | 01:05 |
| BCMM | i'd better get started/ | 01:05 |
| BCMM | ^chance | 01:05 |
| kerio | BCMM: buy an external battery charger | 01:06 |
| BCMM | no, because as soon as shops open tomorrow, i'm sending the poor thing off to Nokia Care | 01:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | Got enough backups? | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Deleted the crocodile porn? | 01:09 |
| BCMM | crocodiles? | 01:10 |
| BCMM | you know, that's weirdly similar to a conversation i was having a few hours ago. | 01:10 |
| BCMM | i pretty much do have backups | 01:11 |
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| BCMM | annoyingly, the recent changes i care about are photos i've taken lately | 01:11 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: Raw DNGs. 10MB each. | 01:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 01:14 |
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| BCMM | and i've been playing with HDR, so it's often 30 or 40 megabytes per shot... | 01:17 |
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| wblaze | BCMM: N900 can manage multi-exposure HDR? Or pseudo-hdr from a single shot? | 01:18 |
| BCMM | wblaze: well, it has a camera, and is programmable | 01:19 |
| BCMM | so exposure bracketing is inevitably possible | 01:19 |
| BCMM | i do it with fcamera | 01:19 |
| wblaze | seems a bit silly, but fun things often are | 01:19 |
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| BCMM | hdr? | 01:19 |
| BCMM | yeah, i know it's a bit of a cliche | 01:19 |
| BCMM | but it's kind of fun | 01:20 |
| BCMM | fcamera is pretty cool | 01:20 |
| BCMM | it usually achieves all three exposures in in the same second | 01:20 |
| BCMM | the fcam API is even cooler | 01:20 |
| wblaze | To make this conversation a bit funnier, I was just looking into buying a N900 so I figured I'd hang out in here for a bit and see what peoples' thoughts were | 01:21 |
| wblaze | that in itself pretty much made up my mind to go for it. | 01:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'd hold off for a few days | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | It's possible that the meego device may be announced soon. | 01:23 |
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| wblaze | The new device is unlikely to cost <$300CAD unlocked without a contract | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Fair point. | 01:24 |
| wblaze | and with my luck, it'll only have a soft-keyboard | 01:24 |
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| wblaze | I've stuck with my Blackberry 9700 far too long for that single feature, and I'm rather tired of being stuck with RIM's firmware. | 01:25 |
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| BCMM | wblaze: it's a lot of fun for photography | 01:30 |
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| BCMM | there is this fcam API, which basically gives complete control over the camera functions | 01:31 |
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| wblaze | I was actually just reading up on the featureset, it's rather nice | 01:32 |
| BCMM | so there is an open-source way to tell it to do things like fire the flash at this brightness at this time and take an exposure of this length with this ISO number, etc. etc. | 01:32 |
| BCMM | oh, and it can capture raw data in DNG format | 01:32 |
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| BCMM | wblaze: features of fcamera or the n900? | 01:33 |
| wblaze | if only my Canon 500D would do the same (DNG vs. RAW) | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | What's the difference? | 01:34 |
| wblaze | fcamera specifically, I've been looking at the n900 since it was released but was never quite affordable enough (imo) to be reasonable | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a real pity the camera is not really 5MP | 01:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - there are 5 million pixels. | 01:36 |
| wblaze | SpeedEvil: essentially it's more portable and open, though http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/extend.displayTab2.html goes into much more detail | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | But the lens is not actually physically able to resolve due to being so teeny. | 01:37 |
| wblaze | yeah, there's only so much you can do with a cameraphone, though a good lens helps | 01:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ah - right. | 01:37 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: RAW basically means any one of dozens of nonstandard raw formats from different cameras | 01:37 |
| BCMM | with differing degrees of hostility to reverse engineering | 01:38 |
| BCMM | DNG is a standard raw format + EXIF (i think) metadata | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | wblaze: yeah - and there is only so much you can do with an awesome cam and a 1.5mm lens. | 01:38 |
| wblaze | which is why I have a 500D for when the phone just doesn't cut it :) | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 01:39 |
| BCMM | wblaze: btw, downsides of the camera: rolling shutter, noisy in low light, fixed aperture | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd love a decent camera, with a decent open OS. | 01:39 |
| BCMM | other than that, it's awesome | 01:39 |
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| BCMM | well, there goes the battery | 01:41 |
| BCMM | the really big advantage over most camera phones is that it has variable focus | 01:41 |
| BCMM | manually-controllable, of course | 01:42 |
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| wblaze | my blackberry has variable focus, but I can't say I've ever been particularly thrilled by it | 01:45 |
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| wblaze | slow and rather terrible in low light | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/5237662575/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4687082204/in/photostream | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | A couple of my better snaps. | 01:47 |
| merlin1991 | I had the perfechet low light scenario for an awesome pic last weekend, but only the n900 at hand :/ | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | fcamera can help with that. | 01:48 |
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| wblaze | SpeedEvil: that second photo is wonderful | 01:50 |
| trx | http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/221636_1703867831802_1091165610_31331465_4683407_n.jpg | 01:50 |
| trx | i take pics like this :) | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | wblaze: The subject is almost impossible to take a bad pic of. It's just so photogenic. | 01:51 |
| merlin1991 | SpeedEvil: what did you do to get the pics like they are? | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | merlin1991: What do you mean? | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Both of those were straight uploads. | 01:51 |
| merlin1991 | when I take pics with the n900 I normally have some sort of "noise" in the picture | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Those were in full sun. | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Full sun helps lots | 01:52 |
| wblaze | SpeedEvil: true, but the focus and depth of field are rather impressive for a cellphone | 01:52 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: are those n900 shots? | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 01:52 |
| merlin1991 | also I was wondering if you did them with the regular camera app | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I think so. | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | (regular camera) | 01:52 |
| BCMM | wblaze: http://benmorris.org.uk/vNmp4Mw.jpeg my favourite of my photos, which i think shows uncameraphonelike focus | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah. You can get that effect - but you need to be really quite close to the subject. | 01:53 |
| BCMM | (i know it's somewhat poorly un-vignetted and i'd like to know if anyone know the right parameters to use with lensfun) | 01:53 |
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| BCMM | for shots like that, i set it to manual focus, 5cm (the minimum) | 01:54 |
| BCMM | then move the phone to focus it | 01:54 |
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| BCMM | am i right in saying that most cameras will not focus as close as 5cm? | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: It depends. | 01:54 |
| wblaze | BCMM: wow | 01:55 |
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| BCMM | wblaze: at photo or at n900's 5cm focus? | 01:55 |
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| wblaze | photo | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | A480 - for example. | 01:56 |
| merlin1991 | SpeedEvil: was it blessn900 or fcamera or both that didn't work with the power kernel? | 01:56 |
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| BCMM | wblaze: thx :) | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Will do 12mm vertical frame at minimum focus. | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | 5500DPI | 01:56 |
| BCMM | merlin1991: fcam and everything using it was broken for a bit | 01:56 |
| BCMM | it's all good now though | 01:56 |
| BCMM | i can't remember if bless used fcam at that point | 01:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think fcam fills in exif | 01:57 |
| wblaze | 5cm is close, but not too impressive | 01:57 |
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| BCMM | SpeedEvil: not automatically, at least. you could check fcamera source code | 01:58 |
| BCMM | wblaze: for a compact though :) | 01:58 |
| wblaze | my 9700 (horrible phone to compare with, but it's what I have haha) will autofocus at ~3cm, I believe | 01:59 |
| wblaze | quick testing seems to confirm my memory, though | 01:59 |
| BCMM | wblaze: wow | 01:59 |
| BCMM | in my experience, the n900 autofocus is a bit of a pain that close | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | The A480 I mentioned above will go to about 2cm | 02:00 |
| BCMM | liable to choose the background instead of the subject | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I was having problems with that. | 02:00 |
| BCMM | wblaze: fcamera has point focus though | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I was trying to take pictures of a butterfly on a plant, and it kept focussing on the plant | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | (I couldn't use the screen) | 02:01 |
| BCMM | don't know if that's the right word, but i mean that you can tap the screen to show it which bit of the frame needs to be in focus | 02:01 |
| merlin1991 | hm install fcamera | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I should have tried fcamera | 02:01 |
| merlin1991 | reboot phone -> tracker goes insane wtf? | 02:01 |
| BCMM | slower, though | 02:01 |
| BCMM | i mean, butterflies fly. | 02:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | BCMM: I was trying to take pictures when it landed | 02:02 |
| BCMM | i was really lucky the other day when a frog decided to stand still for long enough for me to start fcam and focus it properly | 02:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/butterfly.jpg | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Showing the colour, but little else. | 02:04 |
| BCMM | oh wow | 02:04 |
| BCMM | you must really hate the autofocus now | 02:04 |
| wblaze | off topic, but I do have a question for those here - how do you feel about the N900 comparing it to more recent smartphones? Still holding up or looking to trade it in? | 02:05 |
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| BCMM | wblaze: i want a modernised version of the n900 | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/frog.jpg | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Some animals are easier to take pictures of. | 02:06 |
| BCMM | wblaze: but other smartphones are smartphones | 02:06 |
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| BCMM | and the n900 is like a laptop | 02:07 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: wow! | 02:07 |
| BCMM | that toad is ugly and yet weirdly cute | 02:07 |
| BCMM | also, that photo puts my frog picture to shame | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | That was with extra light - keyring torch | 02:07 |
| BCMM | i'd post it, but it's on a dead n900 | 02:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oh - you can see the flash on the eye. | 02:08 |
| BCMM | that's weird | 02:08 |
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| BCMM | if i connect it to my computer by USB, i get a dim blinking orange light | 02:08 |
| BCMM | i mean, on the notification led | 02:08 |
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| BCMM | any idea what that means? | 02:10 |
| BCMM | ah | 02:10 |
| BCMM | dmesg on hte PC is interesting | 02:10 |
| BCMM | "Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad?" | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | It means it's booted, and is in linux | 02:10 |
| BCMM | thank you linux. if only. | 02:11 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: it isn't "on" | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | blinking, or throbbing? | 02:11 |
| BCMM | blinking | 02:11 |
| wblaze | BCMM: I was rather hoping for something like my netbook with a phone, so that sounds about perfect :) | 02:11 |
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| BCMM | wblaze: do you use linux/bsd on a laptop/desktop? | 02:11 |
| wblaze | also, usually this is the type of photo I take on my phone, so I'm not really too demanding of it http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31511903&id=1423129623 | 02:11 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: blinking, rapidly, until the desktop gives up and says "suspend root hub" | 02:12 |
| wblaze | more often on servers, these days but yes a few of them still run linux | 02:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | BCMM: Odd. | 02:13 |
| BCMM | wblaze: it's like a laptop in that it provides a normal-ish linux desktop, adapted for a small screen | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: That sounds like some sort of power issue. | 02:13 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: i don't know if you've seen that the USB port is broken | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 02:14 |
| BCMM | i'm just trying to get a little power into it so i can get the photos off | 02:14 |
| BCMM | earlier today, it was working intermitantly | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm trying to think what the symptoms may be. | 02:14 |
| BCMM | wblaze: i mean, it is an ordinary X server with a window manager | 02:15 |
| BCMM | although all main windows are always maximised | 02:15 |
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| BCMM | and it has a special way of displaying modal dialogs and so on | 02:15 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: fwiw, i can produce no such reaction with the power cable | 02:16 |
| BCMM | i mean, the wall charger | 02:16 |
| BCMM | power pins are longer than data in USB, right? | 02:17 |
| BCMM | i'm going to try half-plugging it in to the PC | 02:17 |
| BCMM | i think it starts blinking when the data pins engage | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Nope. | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | It should react to power on the V+ line | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | the orange light will go on nomatter if there are no other connections. | 02:22 |
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| wblaze | BCMM: power pins are the outer pins on each side | 02:24 |
| * SpeedEvil finds processors.wiki.ti.com | 02:24 | |
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| wblaze | and thanks :) | 02:24 |
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| BCMM | SpeedEvil: hmm. am i right in saying that simply drawing power from a USB port shouldn't make any dmesg output? | 02:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | No. | 02:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | Unless you overload it. | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil | It will not 'appear' on USB if plugged in when dead until it boots | 02:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | The n900 processor can go up to a gig of RAM. | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | The largest RAM I've found is 512M though in a compatible format though. | 02:46 |
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| ShadowJK | bug 12237 | 06:50 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12237 Default WiFi power-saving mode 'Maximum' is unreliable and performs poorly | 06:50 |
| * ShadowJK shakes head in disbelief | 06:50 | |
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| Macer | ugh | 07:39 |
| Macer | i sure wish this google calendar sync worked | 07:39 |
| Macer | :) then maemo would be awesome again.. not that it hasn't gotten better lately | 07:40 |
| Macer | kindn of glad i didn't ebay my n900 | 07:40 |
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| Macer | ogh | 07:49 |
| Macer | guess the sending of email doesn't work either | 07:49 |
| Macer | wow.. what a letdown the google mail for exchange thing has been | 07:49 |
| lolcat | heh | 07:50 |
| lolcat | I am looking for another N900 | 07:50 |
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| lolcat | Is there a problem to buy a danish N900? | 07:53 |
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| Macer | oh shit | 08:26 |
| lolcat | http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php | 08:26 |
| Macer | i got the google calendar working | 08:26 |
| lolcat | Is this realistic? | 08:26 |
| Macer | :) | 08:26 |
| lolcat | 64gb internal memory? | 08:26 |
| lolcat | 1ghz cpu | 08:26 |
| lolcat | 512mb ram? | 08:26 |
| slonopotamus | lolcat: i already have 1ghz cpu on n900 | 08:26 |
| slonopotamus | more ram would be nice though | 08:27 |
| lolcat | slonopotamus: No you don't, you have an overclocked 550mhz cpu | 08:28 |
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| slonopotamus | lolcat: so? it runs at 1ghz no matter what's written on its case | 08:28 |
| robbiethe1st | Hm, talking about OCing or an underclocked device? | 08:29 |
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| slonopotamus | robbiethe1st: about http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php | 08:30 |
| lolcat | slonopotamus: A non-overclocked HTC Desire is faster than your overclocked phone | 08:30 |
| doc|home | is that confirmed? | 08:30 |
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| doc|home | the next question is do we really want to buy a dead end device? | 08:31 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes. | 08:31 |
| lolcat | doc|home: They found it on FCC | 08:31 |
| Macer | won't ocing the n900 burn it out? | 08:31 |
| slonopotamus | doc|home: according to link, no | 08:31 |
| lolcat | "The Nokia N9 was recently spotted at FCC. A teaser video demonstrating the smartphone has also appeared, and this makes us think that the device will finally be released soon. The release date cannot be guessed yet, but I think it will be around June." | 08:31 |
| Macer | can't see safely running it at 1GHz | 08:31 |
| robbiethe1st | Macer: Yes, probably. at least faster than otherwise. | 08:31 |
| doc|home | ok | 08:31 |
| doc|home | is still a dead-end device, right? | 08:31 |
| Macer | how stable is it running? | 08:32 |
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| doc|home | or have they confirmed that there'll be more meego devices? | 08:32 |
| lolcat | I got 4700NOK from the shop I bougth my N900 | 08:32 |
| Macer | doc|home: i just got my su8w bt keyboard working and google syncing | 08:32 |
| lolcat | So I got the money for a N9 ready | 08:32 |
| robbiethe1st | Macer: Mine runs at 1.15ghz stably, but it gets hot at 100% load(i.e. games) so I only run it at 1ghz for that. | 08:32 |
| Macer | the email doesn't work but meh. i can use imap for that | 08:32 |
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| robbiethe1st | and, stably as in 12 days + uptime. | 08:32 |
| slonopotamus | Macer: so don't :) mine runs @1ghz since july 2010. | 08:32 |
| Macer | robbiethe1st: the power kernel says it has broken third party rules in app manager | 08:32 |
| Macer | you know what's up with that? | 08:32 |
| Macer | app manager won't let me update it :) | 08:32 |
| Macer | not that i really see the need for a new kernel but still | 08:33 |
| robbiethe1st | Macer: Do what I told the last person: Open a terminal, "sudo apt-get update", "sudo apt-get upgrade" | 08:33 |
| Macer | oh | 08:33 |
| Macer | ok | 08:33 |
| robbiethe1st | Also, I was wrong. Not 12 days, 22 days. | 08:33 |
| Macer | 22 days? | 08:33 |
| Macer | of what? | 08:33 |
| robbiethe1st | Uptime | 08:34 |
| Macer | oh | 08:34 |
| slonopotamus | of uptime | 08:34 |
| Macer | i've probably had my n900 up to over 100 days | 08:34 |
| lolcat | There where a Nokia N9 teaser video leaked to Youtube that Nokia had removed | 08:34 |
| slonopotamus | ok | 08:34 |
| Macer | heh | 08:34 |
| Macer | but i wasn't really using it | 08:34 |
| Macer | i'm power using the damn thing now since i got this bt keyboard working | 08:34 |
| robbiethe1st | I could have it longer, but I do use it every day and reboot it once in a while, especially when working on custom software | 08:34 |
| Macer | like right now on irc ;) | 08:34 |
| Macer | yesterday i was playing music while using the browser and typing a report in abiword... it's like a small laptop now | 08:35 |
| Macer | once i figure out the cups over ssh crap i'm done | 08:35 |
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| ruskie | Macer, which BT keyboard? | 08:37 |
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| lolcat | So do we belive the N9 will be out soon? | 08:38 |
| ruskie | lolcat, by end of the year | 08:38 |
| Macer | nokia su8w | 08:38 |
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| ruskie | the FCC documentation says keep some stuff private for 45 days | 08:38 |
| Macer | ruskie: have it working with my n900 right now | 08:39 |
| Macer | apt says power kernel is still being held back | 08:39 |
| lolcat | ruskie: I am hearing rumors it could be announced next month | 08:39 |
| lolcat | 64GB internal memory, Oo | 08:39 |
| Macer | The following packages have been kept back: kernel-power-bootimg pyside-qt4-core pyside-qt4-gui | 08:39 |
| lolcat | I was hoping for 1gb ram though | 08:39 |
| ruskie | http://ruskie.codemages.net/scry/index.php/view/40/moon/SI188097.jpg <-- mmm | 08:40 |
| robbiethe1st | I'd take those specs with a grain of salt | 08:40 |
| robbiethe1st | 'cause it /won't/ run Meego. | 08:40 |
| robbiethe1st | It'll run a Maemo-based system with a Meego frontend, yes.. but | 08:40 |
| chx | so still no open drivers? | 08:41 |
| Macer | hm | 08:41 |
| Macer | i wonder why the power kernel still won't install | 08:41 |
| ruskie | robbiethe1st, hmm I'd prefer a Maemo frontend ;) | 08:41 |
| robbiethe1st | Mee to | 08:41 |
| lolcat | ruskie: If it runs Maemo with a Meego frontend, can't we just change it back? | 08:42 |
| ruskie | would be nice | 08:42 |
| lolcat | And the battery on the N9 is said to be 1200mAh | 08:42 |
| lolcat | That sounds completly stupid | 08:42 |
| Macer | ah wel.. better to leave well enough alone.. i don't need the new kernel | 08:42 |
| dangergrrl | n9 with maemo or meego? | 08:42 |
| dangergrrl | new | 08:42 |
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| dangergrrl | no way | 08:42 |
| dangergrrl | nokia dropped us already | 08:43 |
| Macer | er | 08:43 |
| Macer | dropped us? | 08:43 |
| dangergrrl | don't look back on the boyfriend who won't return your calls | 08:43 |
| ruskie | lolcat, why? | 08:43 |
| Macer | dangergrrl: realistically speaking... all the parts of maemo required to do anything are all there | 08:43 |
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| Macer | the kernel works with all the hardware and it is possible to dev a new ui | 08:44 |
| lolcat | ruskie: The N900 has 1250mAh and it is too little | 08:44 |
| dangergrrl | i don't believe nokia is releasing another open handset | 08:44 |
| Macer | nor do i | 08:44 |
| dangergrrl | they dumped us opensourcers | 08:44 |
| Macer | ms has their claws into them and nokia is on the ropes and losing value quickly to htc, motorola, etc | 08:44 |
| dangergrrl | time to find a new suitor | 08:44 |
| Macer | dangergrrl: android? | 08:44 |
| dangergrrl | intel | 08:44 |
| Macer | pfft | 08:44 |
| ruskie | lolcat, hmm 4 days with nothing much running on it... | 08:44 |
| Macer | i think intel is just dabbing its feet | 08:45 |
| dangergrrl | intel promises meego handhelds | 08:45 |
| chx | aye | 08:45 |
| ruskie | x86 handhelds... | 08:45 |
| Macer | dangergrrl: didn't nokia? | 08:45 |
| ruskie | don't wanna | 08:45 |
| Macer | :) | 08:45 |
| chx | they also promised Atom based handhelds since... 2008? | 08:45 |
| chx | i think. | 08:45 |
| lolcat | ruskie: More like 18 houres | 08:45 |
| dangergrrl | well who else can we look to? | 08:45 |
| ruskie | lolcat, I get 4 days | 08:45 |
| dangergrrl | ourselves? | 08:45 |
| lolcat | ruskie: I like(d) my phone | 08:45 |
| ruskie | dangergrrl, samsung and their maemo like stack initiative | 08:45 |
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| dangergrrl | i can not finance the fab of 1000 cortex a9 phones | 08:46 |
| Macer | my n900 with maemo seems to do everything i need it to do ... what it is really missing is something to make it look newer | 08:46 |
| dangergrrl | can you? | 08:46 |
| Macer | i wouldn't mind more eye candy but mehg | 08:46 |
| dangergrrl | i would like 1080p | 08:46 |
| Macer | dangergrrl: other arms are probably cheaper | 08:46 |
| dangergrrl | the a9's are nice | 08:46 |
| slonopotamus | Macer: paint it | 08:46 |
| Macer | slonopotamus: haha | 08:46 |
| dangergrrl | dual 1.5ghz | 08:46 |
| lolcat | 1080p on small lences sucks | 08:47 |
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| Macer | i am going to see if i can get a rubber cover for it | 08:47 |
| dangergrrl | that's pc power in your palm | 08:47 |
| Macer | dangergrrl: what is the tv output of the n900? | 08:47 |
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| Macer | i should dig up my cable | 08:47 |
| dangergrrl | the 1080p uis for a mini hdmi plug | 08:47 |
| dangergrrl | it is pal or ntsc | 08:47 |
| slonopotamus | Macer: 640x480 afaik | 08:47 |
| dangergrrl | 480/525i | 08:47 |
| dangergrrl | 720 i think | 08:47 |
| dangergrrl | but 480 lines | 08:47 |
| Macer | ah | 08:47 |
| dangergrrl | not sure about on pal | 08:48 |
| Macer | so standard dvd | 08:48 |
| slonopotamus | no | 08:48 |
| dangergrrl | dvd is 720x480? | 08:48 |
| dangergrrl | no it's over 800 | 08:48 |
| slonopotamus | n900 video output is less than n900 screen resolution | 08:48 |
| dangergrrl | 480 tall i am sure | 08:48 |
| Macer | haha | 08:48 |
| dangergrrl | oh | 08:48 |
| Macer | that's kind of depressing | 08:48 |
| Macer | but i honestly don't use my phone for watching shows on the tv anyways | 08:49 |
| dangergrrl | get a pandaboard | 08:49 |
| Macer | megh.i have a popcornhour for that stuff | 08:49 |
| dangergrrl | there is an open source gsm stack now i heard | 08:49 |
| Macer | "open" | 08:49 |
| dangergrrl | no like a guy hacked it | 08:49 |
| Macer | hahaha.. "illegal" | 08:49 |
| dangergrrl | yes it is patented | 08:49 |
| dangergrrl | but the source is out there | 08:50 |
| Macer | isn't that what meego is using in order to try to get the n900 going? | 08:50 |
| dangergrrl | the hacked gsm stack? | 08:50 |
| dangergrrl | dun no | 08:50 |
| Macer | probably not | 08:50 |
| dangergrrl | have not tried meego | 08:50 |
| dangergrrl | one thing at a time | 08:51 |
| Macer | nokia is doing their best to kind of brush off the meego project | 08:51 |
| dangergrrl | getting 32 bit ubuntu 11 cd now | 08:51 |
| Macer | but then again they did the same to maemo when they were the ones running it so go figure | 08:51 |
| Macer | get kubuntu | 08:51 |
| Macer | kde is better | 08:51 |
| dangergrrl | so i can install madde in a vm | 08:51 |
| Macer | :) | 08:51 |
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| dangergrrl | i use sabayon with compiz+gnome | 08:51 |
| dangergrrl | gnome is better | 08:51 |
| Macer | can't say i've ever tried sabayon | 08:52 |
| dangergrrl | my friends made it before they were corrupted by evil | 08:52 |
| Macer | i think kde is.. but to each their own | 08:52 |
| Macer | kde4 has become awesome. it's all i run nowadays | 08:52 |
| dangergrrl | gnome comes from pure ideology | 08:52 |
| Macer | haha | 08:52 |
| Macer | don't they all? | 08:52 |
| dangergrrl | kde did not | 08:52 |
| Macer | people trying to "make a change" then people start using it and they all lose their heads and act like their shit doesn't stink? | 08:52 |
| dangergrrl | they were capitalists | 08:52 |
| Macer | that's why it's better | 08:53 |
| Macer | :) | 08:53 |
| dangergrrl | miguel i will admit sold out when novell went away | 08:53 |
| dangergrrl | nat did not sell out | 08:53 |
| dangergrrl | he wuit | 08:53 |
| Macer | pfft.. selling out is only half of it | 08:53 |
| Macer | it's more the mind set | 08:53 |
| dangergrrl | i don't know miguel's motives | 08:53 |
| Macer | anyways. i still think kde is better to use | 08:54 |
| dangergrrl | i can not find him immoral | 08:54 |
| Macer | it has become absolutely amazing | 08:54 |
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| Macer | something that i could actually see a windows user jumping on as though nothing has skiped a beat other than a nicer interface | 08:54 |
| dangergrrl | gtk is better than qt | 08:54 |
| Macer | qt seems to adhere to more of a standard.. at least in kde it does | 08:54 |
| dangergrrl | i can write gtk apps | 08:54 |
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| Macer | like ok/cancel always being on the right side | 08:54 |
| lolcat | I guess I will have to make myself an own maemo phone some time | 08:54 |
| dangergrrl | and i'm a kernel dev | 08:54 |
| Macer | same side i should say | 08:54 |
| * slonopotamus yawns | 08:54 | |
| dangergrrl | that's what i like about gtk | 08:55 |
| Macer | lolcat: MAKE YOURSELF? | 08:55 |
| Macer | oops | 08:55 |
| dangergrrl | it is friendly to kernel hackers | 08:55 |
| lolcat | I don't have a better choice if the N9 sucks | 08:55 |
| dangergrrl | why should i have to work hard and use c++? | 08:55 |
| Macer | ebay an n900 | 08:55 |
| Macer | are they that expensive? | 08:55 |
| dangergrrl | mine was 349 at amazon | 08:55 |
| Macer | you said maemo device right? | 08:55 |
| dangergrrl | $500 now | 08:56 |
| lolcat | Macer: They cost way less than what I got back from my old phone | 08:56 |
| Macer | probably because bt keyboards work with it | 08:56 |
| Macer | :) | 08:56 |
| dangergrrl | lolcat would you be interested at all in a pandaboard? | 08:56 |
| dangergrrl | $170 i think | 08:56 |
| lolcat | But I want to wait till N9 is released to see | 08:56 |
| dangergrrl | omap 4 dual core | 08:56 |
| dangergrrl | 1gb ram | 08:56 |
| lolcat | dangergrrl: What is a pandaboard? | 08:56 |
| Macer | i've tried them all and nothing beats this n900+abiword+bt keyboard | 08:56 |
| dangergrrl | http://pandaboard.org/ | 08:57 |
| Macer | lolcat: sounds like a good idea | 08:57 |
| Macer | you might turn it on and it will have winmob on it | 08:57 |
| dangergrrl | it's a proto board for a cell phone cpu | 08:57 |
| dangergrrl | suitable for vehicle mounting for sure | 08:57 |
| Macer | i thought the funniest thing i saw was the android netbook acer had.. with android mascots all over it.. and the guy in the video turns it on.. and xp starts | 08:57 |
| dangergrrl | 1.0ghz | 08:57 |
| Macer | you had to enable the android boot in xp :) | 08:57 |
| lolcat | Macer: I thougth all Sybian phones could support bt keyboards? | 08:57 |
| dangergrrl | dual core arm cortex a9 | 08:57 |
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| slonopotamus | "cell phone suitable for vehicle mounting" - scaaary | 08:58 |
| Macer | lolcat: they do but symbian sucks nowadays | 08:58 |
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| dangergrrl | slonopotamus: proto board | 08:58 |
| Macer | my n95 worked great with this su8w | 08:58 |
| dangergrrl | not a cell phone | 08:58 |
| Macer | ah well.. bbl | 08:58 |
| dangergrrl | the n900 is as much about creating the tech you want to have as anything else | 08:59 |
| dangergrrl | we can do it ourselves again | 08:59 |
| dangergrrl | i can spend like $400 | 09:00 |
| dangergrrl | and donate some time which i don't know how fruitful it would be | 09:00 |
| dangergrrl | and i want an omap 4 handset | 09:00 |
| dangergrrl | 100% free | 09:00 |
| dangergrrl | i think it should be called the phree | 09:02 |
| * slonopotamus yawns | 09:02 | |
| dangergrrl | better than fonesselar | 09:03 |
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| * RST38h yawns, moos | 09:05 | |
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| RST38h | dangergrrl: Been attempted before. Failed. | 09:05 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: See Openmoko, Freerunner | 09:06 |
| dangergrrl | openmoko happened | 09:06 |
| RST38h | It failed, miserably. | 09:06 |
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| dangergrrl | did someone lose big money? | 09:06 |
| dangergrrl | i thought people got what they paid for | 09:07 |
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| RST38h | Dunno. All I know is that their phone could not make phone calls. | 09:07 |
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| dangergrrl | that part has been done now | 09:07 |
| ruskie | it also lacked a major feature... a keyboard | 09:07 |
| dangergrrl | might be illegal to use | 09:07 |
| RST38h | And the last I heard from the last (?) user was "Don't call me, as my phone often fails receiving calls, and I use EMACS to make and answer them anyway" | 09:07 |
| dangergrrl | so | 09:07 |
| RST38h | So, it was a failure. | 09:08 |
| dangergrrl | what would it cost to make 1000 | 09:08 |
| RST38h | A lot. Costly failure. | 09:08 |
| dangergrrl | $400? | 09:08 |
| * RST38h can suggest an alternative | 09:08 | |
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| dangergrrl | i bet that could be done | 09:08 |
| RST38h | Prolly something like $1500-$2000 apiece | 09:08 |
| dangergrrl | nowai | 09:08 |
| ruskie | imho what would be needed to actually start this is to make a slim down basic s40 type linux based device... | 09:08 |
| dangergrrl | that much to gear up? | 09:08 |
| RST38h | danger: it is a conservative estimate | 09:09 |
| ruskie | then use the profits from that to actually start making smartphones | 09:09 |
| RST38h | There is an easier way to do what you want | 09:09 |
| robbiethe1st | Wouldn't it be easier to just build a new OS/firmware for an existing device? Buy up a bunch of old X units, put new firmware on them... | 09:09 |
| dangergrrl | how? | 09:09 |
| RST38h | Will not cost much money. Will still fail though. | 09:09 |
| robbiethe1st | That's what prepaid companies do.. | 09:09 |
| dangergrrl | fu then | 09:09 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: Do not build hw. Take a standard HTC phone or phones. | 09:09 |
| dangergrrl | i think it can work | 09:10 |
| dangergrrl | and just hack them? | 09:10 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: Use bottom pieces from the existing Android stack. Build your own firmware. | 09:10 |
| dangergrrl | reverse engineering is fail | 09:10 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, if you've got the money, it's not "hacking". You're creating OEM firmware, and you'd probably get the specs too! | 09:10 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: reverse engineering of these devices has been mostly done | 09:10 |
| dangergrrl | i know from my close multiple friends experience | 09:10 |
| RST38h | And they are pretty standard almost-reference designs anyway | 09:10 |
| RST38h | Anyways,it will still fail, for non-technical reasons | 09:11 |
| dangergrrl | how about a china vendor | 09:11 |
| RST38h | Same. | 09:11 |
| dangergrrl | they make shit cheap | 09:11 |
| RST38h | HTC IS a china vendor. | 09:11 |
| robbiethe1st | The big problem is getting people to buy it | 09:11 |
| dangergrrl | i want 1000 | 09:11 |
| robbiethe1st | If you can get enough /customers/ with money, you can make it succeed | 09:11 |
| RST38h | They won't be able to make 1000 cheap | 09:11 |
| RST38h | 100000 - maybe | 09:11 |
| RST38h | robbie: but you cannot. | 09:12 |
| robbiethe1st | And that's the problem, yes. | 09:12 |
| RST38h | robbie: and no, you won't get any money from penguin worshippers, they never pay | 09:12 |
| ruskie | RST38h, wrong | 09:12 |
| RST38h | too used to getting stuff for free | 09:12 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, I think it's more that /not many/ people have $300 disposible income. 10-20, sure, | 09:13 |
| RST38h | robbie: Common excuse. | 09:13 |
| robbiethe1st | see the whole humble bundle things. | 09:13 |
| RST38h | robbie: "I would buy it if I had money" | 09:13 |
| ruskie | <-- had 600 eur disposable income for the n900 | 09:13 |
| RST38h | robbie: The answer is "I would give it to you for free if I had money", ok? | 09:13 |
| dangergrrl | ihm, how many n900s have been sold? | 09:13 |
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| RST38h | many more than Nokia planned, afaik | 09:13 |
| RST38h | But then, N900 is not one of your open-source devices | 09:14 |
| RST38h | It is a normal Nokia phone, with features, support, etc | 09:14 |
| robbiethe1st | But, erm, see the number of people who buy phones on contract. If people truely had money, they'd be better off buying it outright. But they don't. | 09:14 |
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| robbiethe1st | $300's a lot unless you can put it on credit. | 09:14 |
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| RST38h | robbie: People who "buy" phones on contracts are stupid cheapskates who do not understand that the damn phone's price is included into contract | 09:15 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, yes. | 09:15 |
| RST38h | robbie: When you are making money, $300 is nothing | 09:15 |
| RST38h | robbie: When you are not making money, credit won't save you. Simple as that. | 09:15 |
| robbiethe1st | And near as I can tell - at least here in the US - most people live paycheck to paycheck already | 09:15 |
| robbiethe1st | even /with/ a job. | 09:15 |
| snappy | it seems to be a lifestyle choice if anything. | 09:16 |
| RST38h | robbie: Why does it matter to a company selling you a phone? | 09:16 |
| robbiethe1st | 300's not much, until you take out gas, food, housing, etc. | 09:16 |
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| snappy | at least from the people that i've met that live paycheque to paycheque. | 09:16 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, it matters because because they won't have the market. | 09:16 |
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| RST38h | robbie: And if they give you the phone for free, they will have the market? | 09:16 |
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| snappy | but if you're talking aboutt hose that are genuinely poor and can't afford the basics living to paycheque to paycheque, that just sucks. | 09:17 |
| snappy | 1 | 09:17 |
| robbiethe1st | Oh, definitely. But I'm talking more about contract sort of payment scheme | 09:17 |
| RST38h | robbie: Market is where you sell something. | 09:17 |
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| RST38h | robbie: If you are not selling anything, it is a handout | 09:17 |
| RST38h | robbie: And, as I have said before, contracts are still selling you the device, often for a higher price | 09:18 |
| robbiethe1st | Erm, so if AT&T gets me into a 2-year contract with "free" phone, that's not selling me the device | 09:18 |
| ruskie | depends on the contract | 09:18 |
| robbiethe1st | That's my point | 09:18 |
| RST38h | robbie: How come you do not have $300 for the phone, but you do have $99/mo for the contract? | 09:18 |
| dangergrrl | uhm | 09:18 |
| dangergrrl | i am disabled on social security | 09:19 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes. They are making loads off it. I'm saying that if you can provide people an option like that -- however dumb it is -- you;ll get more interest | 09:19 |
| dangergrrl | \i paid $350 for my n900 | 09:19 |
| * RST38h sighs at robbie | 09:19 | |
| ruskie | my contract is only 5eur/month with 12 eur additional for 2gb/data that I can cancel at any time... | 09:19 |
| dangergrrl | ruskie: jealous | 09:19 |
| RST38h | ruskie: I have no contract, paying ~$10/mo for the phone and data :) | 09:19 |
| dangergrrl | mine is 90us/mo | 09:19 |
| robbiethe1st | I paid 310 myself, but I'm an exception. most Android, iOS, WP7 devices are bought on contract | 09:20 |
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| ruskie | RST38h, pay as you go? | 09:20 |
| dangergrrl | for unlimited* data and 500 daytime minutes | 09:20 |
| RST38h | ruskie: yes | 09:20 |
| ruskie | RST38h, had that... it was a bit to pricey for my needs | 09:20 |
| dangergrrl | but unlimited means you get modem speed after 5gb | 09:20 |
| RST38h | robbie: You are 1) US centric and 2) do not quite understand how contract stuff works | 09:20 |
| ruskie | or pre-pay to be exact... | 09:20 |
| RST38h | ruskie: There are other options here, if I want to choose them | 09:20 |
| robbiethe1st | RST38h: That I am. US is a big market. and 2, yes I do know. I can tell you I'd never get into a contract if I had the choice. | 09:21 |
| lolcat | I pay like, $60 for 1000minutes/sms/mms/mb a month | 09:21 |
| RST38h | ruskie: Like $30/mo unlimited (actually capped) data | 09:21 |
| robbiethe1st | But I also know how many people take the option. | 09:21 |
| RST38h | robbie: You have the choice, even in the US | 09:21 |
| ruskie | the 5eur is for pay as you go phone calls/data/minutes | 09:21 |
| dangergrrl | most us phones carry a subsidy if you buy a contract | 09:21 |
| ruskie | no inclusive anything | 09:21 |
| ruskie | just basic service | 09:21 |
| dangergrrl | the n900 i own an didn'rt need a contract | 09:21 |
| robbiethe1st | RST38h: Only T-Mobile provides a pre-paid option with data that's not on a month-to-month basis. | 09:21 |
| RST38h | ruskie: services are relatively cheap here | 09:21 |
| FireFly|n900 | I pay ~$10 for unlimited data transfer.. | 09:22 |
| dangergrrl | but it is advantagous i have one | 09:22 |
| RST38h | robbie: See, you have the choice | 09:22 |
| mece | I pay 32€/month, includes N900, 2 simcards w/ unlimited full speed data and 3000 minutes | 09:22 |
| lolcat | FireFly|n900: I feel 1gb is enough | 09:22 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes, and look at how poorly T-mobile's doing | 09:22 |
| ruskie | RST38h, basically I prefer a static cost month-to-month | 09:22 |
| dangergrrl | i have a 2 year contract for unlimited* data with slower transfer after 5gb | 09:22 |
| RST38h | Anyways, to reiterate: there is no "free" stuff. You still pay for it. | 09:22 |
| robbiethe1st | Poorly enough that Deutch Telekom is trying to get rid of it | 09:22 |
| ruskie | I hardly ever use minutes or sms... | 09:22 |
| FireFly|n900 | lolcat, that's true | 09:22 |
| mece | lolcat, How do you manage? I have an average of 12Gigs a month | 09:22 |
| robbiethe1st | And ues, RST, I've never disagreed with that. | 09:23 |
| ruskie | I can't use 500mb in a month... | 09:23 |
| lolcat | mece: On your cellphone? Oo | 09:23 |
| FireFly|n900 | mece, it's easy if you're often near wifi | 09:23 |
| RST38h | And making a "free" hacker-friendly phone is not gonna work. | 09:23 |
| ruskie | much less 2gb... | 09:23 |
| dangergrrl | i used 5gb is 2 days | 09:23 |
| RST38h | Never worked before. | 09:23 |
| mece | lolcat, yeah | 09:23 |
| lolcat | mece: I have 10/10mbit at home, I do most downloading there | 09:23 |
| dangergrrl | y not | 09:23 |
| lolcat | i guess | 09:23 |
| RST38h | You have got a slightly better chance modifying firmware in existing semi-researched phones | 09:23 |
| dangergrrl | it did work before | 09:23 |
| RST38h | danger: Freerunner failed miserably | 09:24 |
| robbiethe1st | But if you can provide a contract or "pay off in 12 months" option at $40/month, and a pay outright option at $300, you'll have a better market I'm sure. | 09:24 |
| dangergrrl | did the open moko cost $1000? | 09:24 |
| dangergrrl | -sp | 09:24 |
| RST38h | danger: No, it cost $400 but still could not make calls out of the box | 09:24 |
| mece | lolcat, I have 24/1, but I use my phone a lot, and I never bother switching to wlan | 09:24 |
| robbiethe1st | and yes, at $40 you'd make $480 on it, but hey... why not? | 09:24 |
| RST38h | danger: Which is a failure, sorry | 09:24 |
| dangergrrl | my n900 was 350 | 09:24 |
| lolcat | mece: I am not allowed to have wlan | 09:24 |
| mece | lolcat, wtf? | 09:24 |
| lolcat | It is a student housing thing | 09:24 |
| dangergrrl | i'm willing tho accept that level of sucess | 09:25 |
| RST38h | danger: N900 is not a free open source phone. It is a semiopen product from a large corporation, with all pluses and minuses attached | 09:25 |
| dangergrrl | i consider the openmoko to have suceeded | 09:25 |
| lolcat | They provide the internet, and because the majority of people is to dumb to secure a wifi network | 09:25 |
| RST38h | danger: And please, do notice where that corporation is now. Try not breath through your nose. | 09:25 |
| mece | openmoko wasn't free afaik | 09:25 |
| lolcat | RST38h: Freeer than android? | 09:25 |
| dangergrrl | google is playing games with android | 09:26 |
| mece | ym | 09:26 |
| mece | I thought we were talking about what it costs | 09:26 |
| ruskie | techincally other than the gsm chip and it's firmware... everything else could be open... don't think there are any limits anywhere... | 09:26 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: Should we discuss why software-only non-commercial approach will not work? :) | 09:27 |
| dangergrrl | so why could we not have it for $400 or so | 09:27 |
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| dangergrrl | that would hurt | 09:27 |
| RST38h | It will. | 09:27 |
| dangergrrl | but i could do it | 09:28 |
| RST38h | 'cause we would have to use tmo as an example. | 09:28 |
| dangergrrl | software only i already have the n900 | 09:28 |
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| dangergrrl | i would get a nook color for that | 09:28 |
| RST38h | Ok. You have got a Nook Color. | 09:28 |
| RST38h | What is next? | 09:28 |
| dangergrrl | or a pandaboard | 09:28 |
| RST38h | Yes | 09:28 |
| dangergrrl | meego | 09:29 |
| RST38h | Or a freaking meego. | 09:29 |
| * ArkN900 is on nokia developer days in moscow | 09:29 | |
| RST38h | It will all end up the same way. We can use CSSU as an example. | 09:29 |
| ArkN900 | omfg, they are talking like nothing happened | 09:29 |
| dangergrrl | no, use meego on the pandaboard | 09:29 |
| dangergrrl | port the fremantle apps i use | 09:30 |
| dangergrrl | there is gtk for meego | 09:30 |
| RST38h | You will have 1) 3-5 actual developers, working on this thing for free, in their spare time, at night and 2) 9000+ penguin wrshippers, flooding forums with posts about how they luuurrrrv free open-softwate, how it will save the world, oh, my phone bricked now, what do I do WHAT DO I DO??? | 09:30 |
| joga | RST38h hah :) | 09:31 |
| dangergrrl | well, juri would be one | 09:31 |
| dangergrrl | and she counts for three | 09:31 |
| dangergrrl | 3-5? | 09:31 |
| RST38h | Arkn900: Hehe :) | 09:31 |
| dangergrrl | sounds like i would actually have to code | 09:31 |
| dangergrrl | yuk | 09:32 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, CSSU is ended? | 09:32 |
| RST38h | danger: "I would love to help, if I could code, but I do not know C or C++ or anything about coding!" | 09:32 |
| RST38h | danger: (dozens of these posts on tmo) | 09:32 |
| RST38h | GAN: No, it has not | 09:32 |
| dangergrrl | RST38h: i can teach them that | 09:32 |
| RST38h | GAN: Not so far anyway | 09:32 |
| dangergrrl | i am past coding prime | 09:32 |
| RST38h | danger: For free? In your spare time? | 09:32 |
| dangergrrl | yes i would teach for free | 09:33 |
| RST38h | danger: Good luck :) | 09:33 |
| dangergrrl | i am an anarchist | 09:33 |
| lolcat | dangergrrl: me too | 09:33 |
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| dangergrrl | how could i teach other than for free? | 09:33 |
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| dangergrrl | MohammadAG: do you think we could put together a cortexa9 handheld? | 09:34 |
| dangergrrl | i can teach | 09:34 |
| cehteh | mhm | 09:35 |
| dangergrrl | no actually i can teach a lot | 09:35 |
| dangergrrl | do you understand multicomputing? | 09:35 |
| lolcat | MohammadAG: With dual-core, 1gb ram, 64gb rom, 4g and a qwerty keyboard and based on debian? | 09:36 |
| lolcat | What is maemo anyways? A gui? | 09:36 |
| ruskie | and middleware | 09:36 |
| ruskie | and the rather broken init ideas | 09:36 |
| lolcat | to me it looks like debian with maemo stuff instead of gnome | 09:36 |
| ruskie | and the broken filesystem layout | 09:36 |
| ruskie | would be nice if it was debian with just a ui layer | 09:37 |
| ruskie | sadly it's not | 09:37 |
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| lolcat | ruskie: Why didn't they just mount it all at / | 09:37 |
| ruskie | because on chip storage costs | 09:37 |
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| dangergrrl | we could do our own gnome based deal | 09:37 |
| lolcat | ruskie: That is what I am thinking, what exactly does maemo do? | 09:37 |
| joga | teach someone who doesn't know coding how to program a custom handheld device? good luck... | 09:37 |
| lolcat | That is good for the user | 09:37 |
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| joga | (sounds like years of work) | 09:37 |
| RST38h | yea, a bit farfetched | 09:37 |
| lolcat | The maemo window manager is that complicated? | 09:38 |
| dangergrrl | joga someone taught me to design operating systems when i only wanted to play games | 09:38 |
| RST38h | have you designed any? | 09:38 |
| dangergrrl | yes | 09:38 |
| ruskie | make a minimal s40 style device that you can sell to joe average and that doesn't actually need to be a smart phone... sell those first... fund your venture from that... then make a proper smartphone based on the same prinicple | 09:38 |
| RST38h | url? | 09:38 |
| RST38h | ruskie: why not start with car tires? =) | 09:39 |
| ruskie | hehe | 09:39 |
| dangergrrl | actually the only real code project i am involved with is oskit | 09:39 |
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| dangergrrl | and i hope we can get something that will boot on n900 | 09:39 |
| ruskie | RST38h, doesn't really matter with what you start as long as it's something that will ensure you keep getting money down the line for your other r&d projects | 09:40 |
| dangergrrl | \that would be nifty | 09:40 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: ... | 09:40 |
| dangergrrl | if you have oskit you have janos | 09:40 |
| lolcat | Could we run debian on the N900? | 09:41 |
| dangergrrl | although i don't like java it was interesting research | 09:41 |
| dangergrrl | lolcat: a partial yes for sure | 09:41 |
| RST38h | ruskie: Ok, next question: why not *stop* at car tires? | 09:41 |
| dangergrrl | what | 09:41 |
| ruskie | RST38h, that's philosophy ;) | 09:41 |
| lolcat | RST38h: We need a great phone | 09:42 |
| dangergrrl | i have a vision for what an os should look like | 09:42 |
| dangergrrl | hi | 09:42 |
| dangergrrl | i exist | 09:42 |
| dangergrrl | what is my function | 09:42 |
| dangergrrl | what resources do i need | 09:42 |
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| RST38h | ruskie: no, it is business | 09:42 |
| lolcat | I also have a vision: "Hey, thanks for turning me on" | 09:43 |
| RST38h | visions are penny a dozen | 09:43 |
| dangergrrl | i don't care about business | 09:43 |
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| ruskie | RST38h, it's philosophy because it depends what drives you... is it... I want to make tires... or I want to make interesting products but I need starting capital | 09:43 |
| dangergrrl | i care only for the economy of ideas | 09:44 |
| RST38h | ruskie: I want to make money. This is what drives business :) | 09:44 |
| dangergrrl | money is of little use | 09:44 |
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| RST38h | very usable and versatile, from where I am | 09:45 |
| dangergrrl | it does not amplify consciousness | 09:45 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: If you mean drugs, drugs also cost money. | 09:45 |
| joga | dangergrrl, instead of a geeky handset...why not concentrate effort on something like global village construction set or similar enabling technologies | 09:45 |
| ruskie | RST38h, then you stop at making tires... | 09:45 |
| dangergrrl | we don't need technologies | 09:46 |
| joga | uh what? | 09:46 |
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| dangergrrl | we need ideaologies | 09:46 |
| RST38h | No shit, too many people, have to kill off another few billions. | 09:46 |
| dangergrrl | we have plenty of resources | 09:46 |
| RST38h | Can't effectively do that without ideologies driving the extermination | 09:46 |
| dangergrrl | america is not broke | 09:47 |
| RST38h | and the sky is green. | 09:47 |
| dangergrrl | the koch brothers are certainly not broke | 09:47 |
| lolcat | dangergrrl: How much money do you have per capita? I mean the goverment | 09:47 |
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| dangergrrl | i have my pension | 09:48 |
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| dangergrrl | general electric pays no taxes | 09:48 |
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| lolcat | The goverment has $120 000 with my name on it | 09:48 |
| lolcat | And another $120k for each and every one of our inhabitants | 09:49 |
| RST38h | And will continue paying no taxes long after your pension stops due to lack of funds | 09:49 |
| * RST38h cackles | 09:49 | |
| joga | dangergrrl, anyway, my point just was that if you're a visionary that doesn't care about money, wouldn't there be something more fulfilling than designing an internet device? | 09:49 |
| RST38h | None of this makes any difference or has any meaning from where you stand | 09:49 |
| RST38h | Obama can be soaring above the WH on an inflatable pink elephant, and it STILL won't affect you in any meaningful way | 09:50 |
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| RST38h | dangergrrl: Shouldn't we get back to the ground though? | 09:51 |
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| RST38h | dangergrrl: You are saying that you would like to make a true open-source hackable free mobile platform, right? | 09:51 |
| Corsac | and ponies | 09:51 |
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| lolcat | RST38h: Why is that implausible? | 09:53 |
| ArkN900 | haha, they removed "ovi messaging" im client from s3 and now they are bringing it back in anna and trying to picture that as big step fowrard. *pathetic* | 09:53 |
| lolcat | What is Anna? | 09:54 |
| RST38h | Arkanoid: Admit you only came there to troll +) | 09:55 |
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| Macer | haha | 09:59 |
| ArkN900 | rst38h, i never made a secret of it :) | 09:59 |
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| Macer | hm.. is there a good protector for the n900? | 10:02 |
| Macer | something like a body glove that lets the qwerty slide out? | 10:02 |
| Macer | google dont fail me now | 10:03 |
| lolcat | One thing I was wondering about | 10:03 |
| lolcat | IS meego linux? | 10:03 |
| lolcat | If so can we just export the meego drivers, caller, and such | 10:03 |
| ruskie | lolcat, yes it is | 10:03 |
| lolcat | put it in maemo and run it? | 10:03 |
| ruskie | a more recent kernel though | 10:03 |
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| lolcat | Or take the maemo gui export it and put it ontop of meego? | 10:03 |
| lolcat | is meego debian? | 10:04 |
| ruskie | fedora isn't it? | 10:04 |
| cehteh | no | 10:04 |
| Macer | :) | 10:04 |
| Macer | solar charger for n900 hahahahaha | 10:05 |
| Macer | http://nokia-n900.com/store/category/solar-chargers/ | 10:05 |
| lolcat | ruskie: OpenSuse | 10:05 |
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| ruskie | Macer, cheap | 10:06 |
| Macer | yeah | 10:07 |
| Macer | ruskie: this site cant be for real | 10:07 |
| Macer | teloscopic attachment for an n900? | 10:07 |
| Macer | :) | 10:07 |
| Macer | tele | 10:07 |
| ruskie | no thanks | 10:07 |
| Macer | http://nokia-n900.com/store/universal-tripod-8x-zoom-module-free-shipping-1052/ | 10:08 |
| Macer | cmon ruskie... back to the soviet days :) | 10:08 |
| lolcat | The MeeGo Core operating system is a Linux distribution, drawing on Nokia’s Debian-based Maemo and Intel’s Fedora-based Moblin.[23] MeeGo is one of the first Linux distributions to use the Btrfs file system as default, and uses RPM repositories. | 10:08 |
| lolcat | And it uses openSuse package manager | 10:08 |
| lolcat | what a mess | 10:08 |
| Macer | this place is in eu tho | 10:08 |
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| Macer | i doubt they ship to the US | 10:08 |
| ruskie | hahaha original n900 stylus/pen | 10:09 |
| Macer | ah! this is what i need | 10:09 |
| lolcat | Even though MeeGo was initiated as collaboration between Nokia and Intel, the collaboration was formed when Nokia was already developing the next incarnation of its Maemo Linux distribution. As a result, the Maemo 6 base operating system will be kept intact while the Handset UX will be shared, with the name changed to “MeeGo/Harmattan”.[8] | 10:09 |
| Macer | http://nokia-n900.com/store/siliconerubber-case-for-n900-free-shipping-1021_/ | 10:09 |
| dangergrrl | RST38h: yes i would like to help with that | 10:09 |
| lolcat | Will it have a newer debian? | 10:09 |
| Macer | that will protect it well.. i had one of those for my n800 | 10:10 |
| Macer | it protected it from a few bad falls | 10:10 |
| lolcat | Is MeeGo/Harmattan still debian? | 10:11 |
| ruskie | A dummy phone resembling the Nokia N900, purely for display, at a store, for example. Comes with FREE SHIPPING <-- I wouldn't mind having one of these in my pocket | 10:11 |
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| ruskie | if someone tries mugging me or something... | 10:11 |
| lolcat | ruskie: Was it expencive? | 10:11 |
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| RST38h | dangergrrl: Perfect. Would you like to use Linux as a base or write your own kernel? | 10:13 |
| Macer | ruskie :) | 10:13 |
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| Macer | i dont see why someone would have one of those unless there is a huge demand for a discontinued phone | 10:14 |
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| Macer | like if it could project a holographic sex slave or something | 10:14 |
| Macer | then they would be on ebay for $10,000,000 | 10:14 |
| Macer | oh. it says we deliver to everywhere heh | 10:15 |
| Macer | must be located in china | 10:15 |
| Macer | portugal.. wow | 10:16 |
| ruskie | Macer, portugal and south africa ;) | 10:16 |
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| Macer | yah. the south africa one was a little concerning | 10:16 |
| Macer | maybe when the english were running things i would buy something from there | 10:16 |
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| dangergrrl | i am no longer ambitious or energetic enough to write my own kernel but i would like oskit to run on it | 10:17 |
| Macer | wtf.... | 10:18 |
| dangergrrl | linux is kindof bloaty these days for what it is used for in some cases | 10:18 |
| Macer | http://www.amazon.com/BoxWave-Nokia-N900-Armor-Case/dp/B003CJ4ZFM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1305789435&sr=8-3 | 10:18 |
| Macer | for those days where you have nationa. security secrets on your n900 | 10:18 |
| dangergrrl | you have holographic sex slaves? | 10:19 |
| cehteh | dangergrrl: i'd like to experiment to trim down the current linux kernel by configuration only | 10:19 |
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| dangergrrl | can they cuddle? | 10:19 |
| Macer | dangergrrl: yeah... it's an ap in -testing | 10:19 |
| dangergrrl | how freaky do i have to be about water anyhow? | 10:20 |
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| Macer | it doesnt look like that armor case lets the qwerty come out | 10:20 |
| cehteh | wow this armor case is awesome | 10:20 |
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| dangergrrl | forget about the sex, i can cuddle my n900? | 10:20 |
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| dangergrrl | lol | 10:21 |
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| RST38h | dangergrrl: Ok. So, Linux kernel. | 10:21 |
| dangergrrl | i just need more stuffies :P | 10:21 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: I suggest you take a generic Linux distro, like Ubuntu, and write your mobile platform in it. | 10:22 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: If you want to do mobile from the start, take a pandaboard or something, it has got Linux | 10:22 |
| lolcat | RST38h: Why not debian? | 10:22 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: YOu only need to implement or put together the middleware, and trhe basic apps. | 10:23 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: As you already know what is required, and willing to teach other people about it, it should be a fun little project | 10:23 |
| Macer | ok. i need to stop looking at n900 accessories before i go broke | 10:23 |
| Macer | :) | 10:23 |
| cehteh | middleware = dbus looks like a nice thing .. frontend = emacs :) | 10:23 |
| RST38h | All tools are already there for you - Linux, X11, SDL, Gtk+, Qt | 10:23 |
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| Macer | i need a new qwerty pad for it.. mine is worn | 10:23 |
| RST38h | cehteh: Why have dbus when you can run all apps inside emacs, implementing them in LISP? :) | 10:24 |
| Macer | the space bar has this huge white spot on it | 10:24 |
| cehteh | RST38h: elisp is so damn slow | 10:24 |
| RST38h | cehteh: Never stopped real adepts | 10:24 |
| cehteh | it will be a battery eater and lag-o-matic | 10:24 |
| RST38h | cehteh: I mean, people tried implementing whole software stacks in Java! | 10:24 |
| cehteh | could someone write an awesome JIT compiler for elisp please? | 10:24 |
| RST38h | Why not eLISP then... | 10:24 |
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| cehteh | (or take the emacs concept to lua and use lua instead) | 10:25 |
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| RST38h | cehteh: JavaScript. | 10:28 |
| cehteh | maybe that too .. js and lua are similar in some parts | 10:28 |
| RST38h | Isn't it logical, with QtQuick, web runtime, and all? | 10:28 |
| dangergrrl | just having a working design does not make a handheld | 10:29 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: Make a working design first. | 10:29 |
| cehteh | (and decent js jit compilers learned a lot from luajit) | 10:29 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: Then make it work on a hacked HTC for example | 10:29 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: Highly anarchically | 10:29 |
| cehteh | well you need a good stack of libraries in js .. is there such? | 10:29 |
| dangergrrl | i'm wanting to protype with the pandaboard on my motorcycle for augmented reality | 10:29 |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: Once it works, you may try approaching some smaller Chinese phone manufacturer (ZTE?) asking for a batch of their Android phones, sans the firmware | 10:30 |
| dangergrrl | i don't need that to be handheld | 10:30 |
| RST38h | Ok, here goes the great idea of creating a truly free open source mobile platform. | 10:30 |
| dangergrrl | but if what makes a cool augmented reaslity system for me also is the basis for an awesome handheld that would be nice | 10:31 |
| dangergrrl | pandaboard is free and mountable but not handheld | 10:31 |
| dangergrrl | it fits my needs for the bike | 10:31 |
| * RST38h sighs: this whole recurring "I want to make a mobile platform but have better things to do" story starts reminding him of the guy trying to hump hamsters | 10:32 | |
| RST38h | dangergrrl: http://www.concept-phones.com/ :) | 10:33 |
| MohammadAG | dangergrrl, we can, but whether or not it can go into production is something else | 10:34 |
| joga | which reminds me, someone has or has tried openpandora? | 10:34 |
| joga | when I think of unfortunate delays in production I think of that...it took them so long to actually get it manufactured because of all sorts of problems with their suppliers that it wasn't as cutting edge after release | 10:35 |
| joga | but I haven't seen the device, had it not seemed like there are problems in getting it to market I might have ordered one earlier | 10:36 |
| * MohammadAG rephrases that | 10:36 | |
| ruskie | yay for 16MP cameras on a 2mm sensor... | 10:36 |
| MohammadAG | whether it's a big failure or not is something else :p | 10:36 |
| RST38h | joga: Pupnik has ordered one | 10:36 |
| ruskie | that sure as hell is realistic | 10:36 |
| joga | :) | 10:36 |
| RST38h | joga: ask him when he is online | 10:37 |
| joga | RST38h, do you know if he has got it? ;) | 10:37 |
| lolcat | Is the N9 only for devs? | 10:38 |
| lolcat | My nokia developer application was not accepted, they asked what kind of developing I was doing... | 10:39 |
| MohammadAG | I thought you said you were a contractor | 10:39 |
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| RST38h | joga: No idea. After a while, it stopped mattering, didn't it? | 10:40 |
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| RST38h | 1 | 10:46 |
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| lolcat | MohammadAG: I thougth you said you didn't belive me | 10:48 |
| lolcat | Besides I am not a software contractor | 10:49 |
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| phrearch | morning | 11:23 |
| phrearch | is there a recent build of chromium for maemo available somewhere? | 11:23 |
| phrearch | i currently have chromium 6 from some external repo | 11:23 |
| Macer | how is it? | 11:24 |
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| phrearch | it's working ok, but i need a newer version for the websocket app im working on | 11:25 |
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| Macer | i didnt even know they still had it for maemo.. thought there was some lic problem | 11:25 |
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| phrearch | yea, i dont understand why they cant leave out the proprietary part | 11:25 |
| Macer | i am looking for it now to try it out | 11:27 |
| phrearch | maybe try this example websocket site if you like: http://hwios.org/ | 11:27 |
| phrearch | works only in chromium/chrome with .76 hixie websocket protocol | 11:27 |
| phrearch | hm, how is qt on maemo | 11:28 |
| phrearch | ? | 11:28 |
| lolcat | It is really cute | 11:28 |
| * lolcat goes to make paraqt | 11:28 | |
| Macer | i could hear the punchline drums after that one lolcat | 11:28 |
| phrearch | does it replace some parts of gtk? | 11:29 |
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| phrearch | in maemo that is | 11:29 |
| lolcat | Macer: First or last? | 11:29 |
| mece | phrearch, perhaps jacekowski might build a newer one? | 11:29 |
| phrearch | mece: havent read anything after the initial release. is he around here sometimes? | 11:30 |
| phrearch | would be nice to have a running chromium 11 | 11:30 |
| mece | ~seen jacekowski | 11:30 |
| infobot | jacekowski is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 8 messages. Is idling for 14h 54m 8s, last said: 'i've heard something about microsoft buying nokia'. | 11:30 |
| mece | haha he's online :D | 11:30 |
| phrearch | aha ok :) | 11:30 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:30 |
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| mece | Jaffa, \o | 11:30 |
| phrearch | yea that would be awesome. building a project like chromium is quite a task. i wouldnt know where to start actually | 11:31 |
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| Macer | it doesnt go faster than microb does it? | 11:33 |
| Macer | the thread says it goes just as slow | 11:33 |
| Macer | the syncing might be nice to have though | 11:33 |
| phrearch | its not very fast no | 11:34 |
| phrearch | but better than gecko based browsers imo | 11:34 |
| phrearch | that v8 engine seems to be very fast | 11:34 |
| Macer | well... it is wk right? | 11:35 |
| Macer | isn't tear as well? | 11:35 |
| phrearch | yea webkit + v8 i think | 11:35 |
| phrearch | i think webkit has its own js engine normally? | 11:35 |
| Macer | i dont know.. i can honestly say i havent run into many gripes with microb to look | 11:36 |
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| robbiethe1st | But Opera's the only one with HW accel for drawing images(I'm pretty sure) | 11:36 |
| Macer | i usually just use opera for the quick stuff | 11:36 |
| Macer | and microb for mostly everything | 11:36 |
| Macer | fennec is absolutely horrible | 11:37 |
| phrearch | hm, is maemo-qt something i can install over the default maemo? | 11:37 |
| robbiethe1st | Macer: same | 11:38 |
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| Macer | why isnt opera rotating? | 11:39 |
| chem|st | alterego: was columbus your little Qt-toy? | 11:40 |
| chem|st | phrearch: maemo-qt is a framework not an operatingsystem | 11:40 |
| Macer | oh nm | 11:41 |
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| Macer | cssu has some global screen lock thing | 11:41 |
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| alterego | chem|st: yes | 11:41 |
| chem|st | phrearch: you should not be forced to install it by hand as it should get pulled in by dependencies | 11:41 |
| phrearch | chem|st: aha ok. i thought it was a seperate distribution of maemo | 11:41 |
| chem|st | alterego: do you get the fullscreen button right in the middle after startup too? | 11:42 |
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| alterego | chem|st: yeah, known issue that's fixed in my master code but nt distributed. | 11:45 |
| * ArkN900 trolled about ovi maps a bit | 11:50 | |
| phrearch | hm | 11:50 |
| phrearch | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73149 | 11:50 |
| phrearch | so, maemo == meego ? | 11:50 |
| ruskie | since when? | 11:50 |
| phrearch | ow ok, i thought i read it was a rename of maemo | 11:51 |
| phrearch | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44664 | 11:51 |
| RST38h | Arkanoid: Are they now Ovi Services Maps? | 11:52 |
| RST38h | wait, no, Nokia Services Maps | 11:52 |
| phrearch | i managed to get meego running on an external sd-card a while ago, but it didnt run very well | 11:52 |
| nid0 | what class was the card | 11:53 |
| phrearch | i think class 4 | 11:53 |
| ruskie | 6 minimal to get even remotely usable performance | 11:53 |
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| phrearch | aha ok. the part on which maemo runs, is quite faster then i suppose | 11:54 |
| ruskie | of course | 11:54 |
| lardman|home | morning chaps | 11:55 |
| Macer | damn this maemo syncing with google is great | 11:55 |
| Macer | now if only abiword and gnumeric synced with google docs | 11:55 |
| Macer | :) | 11:56 |
| ruskie | I would prefer decent syncml support... but that would require a good standalone accept everything syncml server | 11:56 |
| nid0 | im happy enough with my google calendar syncing \o/ | 11:56 |
| Macer | i' happy i got the calendar going | 11:56 |
| lardman|home | nid0: what do you use for that? | 11:56 |
| Macer | hahahaha | 11:56 |
| nid0 | lardman|home: erminig | 11:57 |
| Macer | nid0: ;) yeah i was messing with that for a while | 11:57 |
| lardman|home | hmm, has it been updated as last time I tried it wasn't interested? | 11:57 |
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| Macer | i just used mail for exchange to sync | 11:57 |
| nid0 | not for a while afaik, i've been using it for at least 8-10 months or so without problems | 11:57 |
| Macer | too bad i couldnt get mail for exchange to send emails | 11:58 |
| Macer | i still have to use imap and turn email syncing off | 11:58 |
| * nid0 curses maemo's imap implementation | 11:59 | |
| Macer | but the contacts and the calendar is working like a champ | 11:59 |
| Macer | nid0: never had a problem with it afa google goes | 11:59 |
| nid0 | my major issues with it are lack of imap-idle and no local folder subscriptions | 11:59 |
| Macer | my problem is i have a g2 as well so it is nice to just have to add contacts once | 12:00 |
| lardman|home | I'll have to take another look at it | 12:00 |
| nid0 | I still have to end up using my e90 + profimail when I need proper mobile mail | 12:00 |
| Macer | why not just copy them to a local folder? | 12:01 |
| nid0 | copy what? | 12:01 |
| Macer | or cant you force modest to cache everything? | 12:01 |
| Macer | oh. guess not | 12:02 |
| ruskie | * > modest > outlook* | 12:02 |
| Macer | hahaaha | 12:02 |
| ruskie | kinda how I would rank modest | 12:02 |
| Macer | modest isnt too bad | 12:02 |
| ruskie | and that includes plain telnet access | 12:02 |
| nid0 | tbh, OE / WLM >>>> modest | 12:02 |
| Macer | lmao! | 12:03 |
| Macer | oe ftw! | 12:03 |
| Macer | kmail :-P | 12:03 |
| * Macer hides under a rock | 12:03 | |
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| * chem|st shrugs | 12:08 | |
| Cor-Ai | ~ | 12:09 |
| chem|st | do I understand something wrong or why the hell should it help a $user to have a more secure device by generating id_rsa keys by default (on the same device)... | 12:10 |
| RST38h | "Intel, speaking out of turn and damaging its intimate relationship with Microsoft, has revealed that legacy x86-compiled software will not work on the ARM version of Windows 8." | 12:10 |
| RST38h | Cpt Obvious! | 12:10 |
| Appiah | :D | 12:10 |
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| chem|st | thats just like my ssh discussion on #meego yesterday... | 12:11 |
| chem|st | how should x86 compiled stuff run on a not x86 architecture? | 12:12 |
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| chem|st | I mean without wrapper or emu | 12:12 |
| flux | well | 12:12 |
| flux | then you have some people saying that hey, it's INTEL saying that, who knows what microsoft has in their pockets! | 12:12 |
| RST38h | chem: Obviously, ARM should just add x86 instruction set! | 12:13 |
| flux | simply run the software through a translator and you're done. | 12:13 |
| chem|st | RST38h: true | 12:13 |
| RST38h | flux: Microsoft can't have in its pockets more than technologically possible | 12:13 |
| chem|st | but as long as there isn't there wont | 12:13 |
| flux | rst38h, simply integrate qemu! | 12:13 |
| RST38h | And no, flux, it is not "simply running software through a translator" | 12:13 |
| flux | another interesting thing is that intel is catching up in the power consumption by having a better process | 12:14 |
| RST38h | flux: What would be performance of qemu, emulating x86 on an ARM? | 12:14 |
| flux | I just cannot see how the ARM camp cannot reach that as well, by using a better process | 12:14 |
| chem|st | bad idea | 12:14 |
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| RST38h | chem: Is Cyrix still around? They should have an x86 license =) | 12:14 |
| flux | rst38h, there are real attempts on emulating other cpus. was it HP's Dynamo or something, that actually could have better performance on running x86 on x86 than natively.. | 12:14 |
| flux | does qemu make use of advanced techniques, such as JIT? | 12:15 |
| chem|st | RST38h: guess they died as all others | 12:16 |
| chem|st | National Semiconductor tried some stuff on the remains | 12:17 |
| chem|st | licenses were given to china and peking by AMD (x86 Cyrix) | 12:19 |
| chem|st | RST38h: so no they aren't around anymore | 12:20 |
| chem|st | I had a Cx486DX, DX2 and a DX4 btw | 12:20 |
| chem|st | oh and the SLC... | 12:21 |
| RST38h | chem: hey that x86 license should still be owned by someone | 12:21 |
| chem|st | the first system was about 9k€ | 12:21 |
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| chem|st | RST38h: AMD | 12:21 |
| RST38h | chem: 1) ARM buys the x86 license with the owner company 2) ARM adds x86 instruction set 3) ××× 4) PROFIT! | 12:21 |
| RST38h | chem: AMD has its own license | 12:22 |
| chem|st | and they have the Cx one, that is how they could licence it to asia | 12:22 |
| RST38h | chem: Cyrix's license is owned by VIA | 12:22 |
| RST38h | chem: AMD owns its own license | 12:22 |
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| RST38h | On the other hand, why would anyone NEED an x86-compatible CPU, other than for running MS Windows and MS Office? And Microsoft is porting both to ARM. | 12:24 |
| chem|st | RST38h: where did you get that... all I read is that cyrix was VIA later on | 12:24 |
| robbiethe1st | RST38h: You've got that right. | 12:24 |
| robbiethe1st | RST38h: Actually, the /only/ thing is MS Windows Games, and other "legacy" software | 12:25 |
| chem|st | "legacy"^^ | 12:25 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, if it won't run on Windows ARM, so it's "legacy". | 12:26 |
| robbiethe1st | And if it will, we can use Wine. | 12:26 |
| chem|st | ? | 12:26 |
| RST38h | chem: Wiki | 12:26 |
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| chem|st | RST38h: nvm | 12:26 |
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| lardman|home | hmm, those TMO threads about the n950 are hard work | 12:56 |
| mece | lardman|home, but fin tiems! | 12:58 |
| mece | s/fin/fun/ | 12:58 |
| infobot | mece meant: lardman|home, but fun tiems! | 12:58 |
| lardman|home | mece: absolutely I'm excited | 12:58 |
| lardman|home | like waiting for Christmas as a kid and all that :) | 12:58 |
| lolcat | lardman|home: I hope it is dual core | 12:59 |
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| dr0id | Hola | 13:01 |
| lolcat | dr0id: :SSSS | 13:02 |
| dr0id | Hey lolcat | 13:02 |
| lolcat | Why not maem0? | 13:02 |
| chem|st | one month to go... excited but I guess I won't buy one as it is a cap. screen | 13:03 |
| crashanddie | dr0id, you want the kb? | 13:03 |
| dr0id | ? | 13:03 |
| dr0id | I really don't understand wuts goin on | 13:03 |
| crashanddie | haha | 13:04 |
| dr0id | you asked me to come here, I came here | 13:04 |
| mece | I wouldn't thouch it unless it were hepta core. | 13:04 |
| crashanddie | I didn't ask you to come here | 13:04 |
| crashanddie | I told everyone in ##php to join #maemo if they fancied a free kickban :) | 13:04 |
| mece | LOL | 13:04 |
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| dr0id | ok, I invite you all to ##php-lance and #freelance , if you all don't want a free kickban | 13:04 |
| crashanddie | spamming other channels, I think that's a valid excuse. | 13:05 |
| crashanddie | hehe :P | 13:05 |
| lardman|home | lolcat: dual core would be good, but really a bigger screen + e-compass (I hope) would do | 13:06 |
| lardman|home | hey crashanddie | 13:06 |
| lolcat | e-compass? | 13:06 |
| crashanddie | hey lardman | 13:06 |
| lolcat | the screen is big enough | 13:06 |
| lardman|home | lolcat: bigger than N900 I mean | 13:06 |
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| lardman|home | crashanddie: how's things? | 13:06 |
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| crashanddie | Not too bad | 13:07 |
| crashanddie | Living in the south of France, nice little job | 13:08 |
| crashanddie | Living with the gf, all that | 13:08 |
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| crashanddie | you lardman|home? | 13:08 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: where are you at then? thought you where somewhere more northern | 13:08 |
| crashanddie | chem|st, Perpignan, 40km from the Spanish border. | 13:09 |
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| crashanddie | Northern enough for you? :P | 13:09 |
| chem|st | hehe I know perpignan, actualy to far north, I prefer gijon +-40km | 13:10 |
| crashanddie | Gijón is actually further north than Perpignan. | 13:11 |
| chem|st | why do they use "offshore" for "outsourcing" | 13:12 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: is it o_O | 13:12 |
| chem|st | ;) | 13:12 |
| crashanddie | chem|st, yeah, Gijón is actually about 150km or so north | 13:13 |
| chem|st | ah sure perpignan is on the southest end of france | 13:13 |
| crashanddie | It's on the same level as Montpellier | 13:13 |
| lardman|home | crashanddie: yeah | 13:14 |
| lardman|home | crashanddie: good, expecting in mid August | 13:14 |
| crashanddie | Oh really? Didn't know about that | 13:14 |
| crashanddie | Congrats to both of you | 13:14 |
| chem|st | about the same lat as pamplona^^ | 13:15 |
| crashanddie | She must be a big bubbling blob of hormones by now. | 13:15 |
| lardman|home | Work has been hectic since the start of the year (i.e. 3months when you can tell people) so I've not had much of a chance to chat to anyone | 13:15 |
| lardman|home | thanks :) | 13:15 |
| lardman|home | she's not bad actually, stops work in a couple of weeks which is making her happy :) | 13:15 |
| crashanddie | heh | 13:15 |
| lardman|home | and we're moving house in a couple of weeks too, which will make both of us happy - more space | 13:16 |
| crashanddie | Your back however, isn't going to be happy | 13:16 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: been there about 10 years ago or so ;) | 13:17 |
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| chem|st | lardman|home: the best of luck to you, gonna need it... | 13:18 |
| chem|st | ;) | 13:18 |
| lardman|home | crashanddie: true, though I may just get some people in to move it - washing machine + sofabed down two flights of stairs doesn't sound fun | 13:18 |
| lardman|home | thanks chem|st, I didn't think house moving was that bad ;) | 13:18 |
| chem|st | moving twice is like once burned down | 13:19 |
| crashanddie | lardman|home, did you get her the nerdy t-shirts? "Baby loading 75%" or "Gestation in progress. Stand clear" | 13:19 |
| crashanddie | Or for her last day at work "Do not argue with me. I am pregnant. And I own a chainsaw." | 13:19 |
| lardman|home | lol | 13:20 |
| crashanddie | Or my personal favourite "No bellyrubbing. This is a basketball shoplifting operation" | 13:20 |
| chem|st | I like the "production site, keep clear" one ;) | 13:20 |
| lardman|home | :) | 13:21 |
| chem|st | lmc if I find that | 13:21 |
| gomiam | chem|st: ¿asturiano? ;) | 13:21 |
| crashanddie | http://www.cafepress.com/evilgeniusstore/7233146 | 13:21 |
| crashanddie | gomiam, no, ell és allemaney. | 13:22 |
| gomiam | crashanddie: interesting. I wouldn't expect a German to like one of the most rainy areas in Spain. They usually want sun, sun, sun! | 13:24 |
| crashanddie | and white socks, on scarlet-red skin. | 13:25 |
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| crashanddie | It's funny the british hate "ze ghermans" so much -- they dress identically when they go on holiday. | 13:25 |
| lardman|home | We don't hate the Germans | 13:26 |
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| lardman|home | We certainly like their cars! | 13:26 |
| crashanddie | Well, maybe not you, but you're pregnant, so you love everything, including ponies, unicorns and rainbows. | 13:26 |
| lardman|home | ah, ponies | 13:26 |
| lardman|home | well I do speak German too and have lived there, so that might help | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 13:27 |
| lardman|home | what's a German pony then? Pferdchen? | 13:27 |
| lardman|home | :) | 13:27 |
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| crashanddie | Haha | 13:28 |
| crashanddie | Probably just pony | 13:28 |
| chem|st | gomiam: não, eu não sou asturiano | 13:29 |
| lardman|home | It's getting to be such a long time since I've actually spoken German day to day that after I wrote that I had a terrible thought that perhaps Pferd was something else and I was misremembering | 13:29 |
| crashanddie | that sounds like portuguese | 13:30 |
| gomiam | chem|st: no need to write in Portuguese... unless you are. In any case, feel free to keep doing it :D | 13:30 |
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| chem|st | certamente | 13:30 |
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| gomiam | crashanddie: Pony, Eselsbrücke, Bläschen or Spickzettel | 13:31 |
| chem|st | actualy I do not realy speak either language properly so I stay with english for now, ok? | 13:31 |
| gomiam | chem|st: good enough for me :) | 13:32 |
| crashanddie | gomiam, except Blaschen is "glass", and "spickzettel" is something related to writing stuff on your hands | 13:32 |
| crashanddie | So Google Translate fail. | 13:32 |
| lardman|home | gomiam: Eselsbrücke, that is odd - that translates as cribbing | 13:32 |
| gomiam | crashanddie: blame Google Translate XD | 13:32 |
| lardman|home | lol | 13:32 |
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| lardman|home | http://dict.leo.org/ is a better bet | 13:32 |
| lardman|home | http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=&search=pony | 13:33 |
| lardman|home | I wonder what a Pony Mixer is? | 13:33 |
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| lardman|home | something used in the manufacture of glue perhaps.... | 13:33 |
| crashanddie | lardman|home, actually, I definitely remember the eselsbrucke as being some kind of pun | 13:34 |
| crashanddie | lardman|home, because donkeys are scared of water, they'd never cross a bridge, or something like that? | 13:34 |
| chem|st | lardman|home: http://www.compliancesigns.com/media/NH/NHE-13092_150.gif put that on a shirt... | 13:34 |
| lardman|home | It's a rhyme or something like that to remember something or a mnemonic iirc | 13:34 |
| lardman|home | chem|st: :) | 13:35 |
| lardman|home | crashanddie: I remember learning it in class at some point though, but not the reasoning anymore | 13:35 |
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| crashanddie | "Esel sind sehr wasserscheu und weigern sich beharrlich, auch kleinste Wasserläufe zu durchwaten, auch wenn sie diese physisch leicht bewältigen könnten („sturer Esel“), denn ein Esel kann durch die spiegelnde Wasseroberfläche nicht erkennen, wie tief der Bach ist. Daher baute man ihnen in Furten kleine Brücken, die sogenannten „Eselsbrücken“. | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | Analog dazu ist eine sprichwörtliche Eselsbrücke ein Umweg oder besonderer Aufwand, der dennoch schneller – oder überhaupt erst – zum Ziel führt. | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | Außerdem geht ein Esel nicht über jede Brücke, denn er setzt seinen Huf nur auf jenen Untergrund, der ihm völlig geheuer erscheint. Er überquert nur eine Brücke, die ihm Sicherheit bietet. Somit steht die „Eselsbrücke“ auch für die Sicherheit." | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | Bloody germans. | 13:36 |
| lardman|home | anyone know whether a kernel tarball contains somewhere the version number? | 13:36 |
| lardman|home | crashanddie: thanks | 13:37 |
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| lardman|home | ah, in the main Makefile fwiw | 13:37 |
| crashanddie | anyway, going for lunch | 13:38 |
| lardman|home | enjoy | 13:38 |
| chem|st | All people seem to need Data processing... | 13:38 |
| chem|st | missing layer 8 in this pony... | 13:38 |
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| jacekowski | mece: i'm always online | 13:42 |
| jacekowski | and opera is a lot better | 13:42 |
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| chem|st | Barbara Streisand hits again... the N9 teaser is now uploaded to youtube and other services all over the place after Nokia had the initial one removed... | 13:55 |
| Lynoure | :/ | 13:57 |
| Trewas | and that wasn't exactly what they were after? | 13:58 |
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| chem|st | there is a "several times" missing in my streisand comment | 14:15 |
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| BCMM | lcuk: ping? | 14:19 |
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| lcuk | hey BCMM | 14:21 |
| RST38h | moo lcuk | 14:21 |
| BCMM | hello | 14:21 |
| lcuk | hiya RST38h \o | 14:21 |
| BCMM | lcuk: last night you said you fixed your USB port with a bit of card; would you mind elaborating? | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil1 | He probably just wedged it into the slot to press it to the board. | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil1 | Oh | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil1 | There he is. | 14:22 |
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| BCMM | i figured it was something like that, but i'd appreciate any advice on technique | 14:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | The USB connector can fail in many ways. | 14:23 |
| BCMM | mine is slightly rotated | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not going to be one technique for all. | 14:23 |
| BCMM | but there is still some semblance of a connection, since plugging it in to a PC gets an orange flashing light and plenty of worrying dmesg on the PC | 14:23 |
| BCMM | i know this is a stupid question, but which side is connected to the board? | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's one general rule: fix early, fix properly | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | If I was trying a last ditch effort to get data off, I'd clamp the USB lead in something, and then press the n900 onto this, with the force exerted to clamp it onto the board, while remaining parallel. | 14:24 |
| lcuk | BCMM, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-04-22.log.html#t2011-04-22T17:15:17 | 14:25 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i was thinking nokia could fix it properly for me. i just want my photos off it before they wipe it | 14:25 |
| lcuk | BCMM, charge battery, use ssh | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Often it's not possible to fix USB properly - the pads have been ripped off. | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: or uSD | 14:25 |
| BCMM | lcuk: thanks | 14:26 |
| BCMM | lcuk, DocScrutinizer: empty battery, no external charger. | 14:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | I assume you have no random resistors around? | 14:26 |
| BCMM | the objective is to put some energy in | 14:26 |
| BCMM | i have some random resistors, why? | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | best chance to get a new battery, and ask in shop to charge it for you | 14:26 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: are you proposing building a charger? | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | If you find a suitable one - say 3-20 ohms - you can take a USB lead, cut it in half, use it as a power source, and directly charge the battery from that | 14:27 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: oh, you mean buy a spare battery, and buy it charged? | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: best "random resistor" is the one internal to Nokia chargers with 3.5mm barrel connector | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: yes | 14:28 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: that's a pretty good idea; a spare would be useful anyway | 14:29 |
| BCMM | is it normal for a shop to charge a battery for you? | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Some will test batteries for you. | 14:29 |
| RST38h | how would a spare battery for a broken phone be useful? =) | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | How much data do you need to move off? | 14:29 |
| BCMM | actually, i wonder if those unlocking shop-type places would just charge my battery for a couple of quid | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really, but they will do if you by a rather expensive thing, no? | 14:30 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: a couple gig i think | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ by / buy / | 14:30 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: not really, but they will do if you buy a rather expensive thing, no? | 14:30 |
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| BCMM | SpeedEvil: it'll use energy nicely, but i reckon it can be done over wifi on a single charge | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: So I guess you need most of an hours life on ssh - so maybe a third to a half full. | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | new batteries come charged to 40%..70% usually | 14:31 |
| BCMM | what do you reckon uses more power: faster transfer with rsync -z, or less CPU work without -z? | 14:31 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: yeah, taht's about right | 14:32 |
| lardman|home | Where are you BCMM? Post it to me and I'll charge it for you | 14:32 |
| BCMM | lardman|home: UK | 14:32 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: for photos - without | 14:32 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: is dng compressed? | 14:32 |
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| BCMM | but that would put another postal roundtrip before this gets fixed, and getting a spare battery seems like a good idea | 14:32 |
| BCMM | lardman|home: thanks, though | 14:33 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume you have no local shops that might sell stuff like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mini-USB-Battery-Charger-Universal-Key-Ring-Mobile-MP3-/140528801499?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneChargers&hash=item20b82b56db ? | 14:33 |
| BCMM | how does one avoid getting a fake BL-5J? are the major retailers like carphone warehouse reliable? | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility | 14:33 |
| lardman|home | BCMM: np | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: take your original nokia battery with you when shopping, and cmpare closely | 14:34 |
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| ccooke | DocScrutinizer: How convincing are the fakes? | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | very | 14:34 |
| ccooke | hmm | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | allegedly even nokia has to take them apart to spot any diffs | 14:35 |
| ccooke | damn | 14:35 |
| lardman|home | I got a fake with a new phone, box was probably unsealed - dodgy mobile phone companies | 14:35 |
| ccooke | lardman|home: ... what the hell? | 14:36 |
| lardman|home | took the whole lot back - battery life was crap, scratched the back and looked at Nokia webpage for S/N and it wasn't real, etc | 14:36 |
| lardman|home | yeah | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then some of the "fakes" are also electrically better than the original :-P | 14:36 |
| ccooke | DocScrutinizer: so, we just need to be able to spot *those* :-) | 14:36 |
| lardman|home | then again if you buy a battery which isn't trying to be a fake, that might be a better bet? | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | you save like 80% and know what you get | 14:37 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: but... but... i thought it was IMPOSSIBLE to fake a hologram! | 14:38 |
| BCMM | ;) | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I however bought a "used one" in my next little turkish cellphone shopee and it cost like 8 bucks instead of 45 and was just fine | 14:38 |
| BCMM | lardman|home: yeah, so i was basically wondering who the non-dodgy companies are | 14:38 |
| BCMM | i mean obviously i'll avoid unlocking shops and market stalls, but can i trust carphone warehouse? | 14:39 |
| BCMM | "electrically better" in what respect? | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | more mAh for ex | 14:39 |
| lardman|home | I can't remember who I bought my dodgy phone from, but it wasn't Carphone Warehouse that's for sure - was one of the ones with a 4 in the title I imagine | 14:39 |
| BCMM | a chain? | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: don't worry, just make sure you got some ass to kick, when the battery is crap | 14:40 |
| BCMM | wise. | 14:40 |
| BCMM | what does one call those shops that seem to be in every UK city | 14:41 |
| BCMM | they're tiny, not part of chains, and advertise mobile phone credit, overseas phone cards and unlocking | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I call then turkish cellphone shopee | 14:41 |
| BCMM | heh | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno what yours are called | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually those are like 40m^2 and run by a single turkish dude here in Germany | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | most of them look like utter mess, and sell laserpointers, lighters, random crap as well | 14:44 |
| RST38h | do they make profit? | 14:44 |
| lardman|home | the ones here have stacks of cables and lots of those dangly flashy things shaped like bubbies or ponies or hearts that go off when a phone rings | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno how, but obviously the do | 14:44 |
| lardman|home | s/bb/nn | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | they won't tell anybody how they do, I guess | 14:44 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: they just react to interferance from the GSM signal i guess | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | the "ring extenders"? yeah, indeed | 14:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you can as well place your cellphone on top of a Logitech noisecube (aka amp speaker for computers), and they all will fail on 3G | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui | 14:47 |
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| BCMM | dum da-dum dum da-dum dum da-dum. | 14:49 |
| Macer | hm | 14:50 |
| Macer | who was it here that said they were having problems with mail for exchange contacts and google? | 14:50 |
| Macer | it seems to be working like an absolute champ :) syncing is working well | 14:50 |
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| Macer | The big shocker was the notes actually work | 15:09 |
| Macer | omg the n900 has become so awesome again | 15:09 |
| Macer | welll..... became awesome at all :) | 15:10 |
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| Venemo | Macer, ? | 15:15 |
| phrearch | hm, i set a root password on my n900. wouldnt that be problematic on reboot? | 15:16 |
| Venemo | phrearch, no. | 15:16 |
| chem|st | Macer: me and no never worked... | 15:16 |
| phrearch | Venemo: ah ok. pfew :) | 15:16 |
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| chem|st | phrearch: why should it? | 15:16 |
| chem|st | you get automagically logged in as "user" | 15:17 |
| mece | you can also set a password for "user" and still not have problems | 15:17 |
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| phrearch | chem|st: just scared i mess up things beyond a point of return i guess | 15:18 |
| chem|st | ok | 15:19 |
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| phrearch | wonder if there are other browsers available for maemo that support websockets | 15:19 |
| phrearch | ff4 is not for maemo yet? | 15:19 |
| phrearch | or something based on gecko | 15:19 |
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| Wizzup | There is fennec for maemo | 15:19 |
| Wizzup | Which is firefox 4 | 15:20 |
| phrearch | aha cool. ill give that a try | 15:20 |
| Wizzup | aka firefox mobile | 15:20 |
| phrearch | tear looks quite nice as well. not sure if that webkit supports websockets yet. guess not | 15:20 |
| Venemo | fennec was extremely bad last time I tried, although I haven't looked at it in a while | 15:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | phrearch: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools # fix NOPASSWD for root / sudo gainroot | 15:22 |
| phrearch | ah thanks | 15:22 |
| phrearch | hm, i installed this cool awoken theme, but it seems to have some issue with theme-customizer | 15:23 |
| Macer | heh | 15:27 |
| Macer | i sure haven't changed my theme in a very long time | 15:28 |
| chem|st | Macer: matrix from the start on^^ | 15:28 |
| Macer | heh | 15:29 |
| Macer | doesn't matrix change your startup splash? | 15:29 |
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| Macer | i wouldn't mind using a maemo splash instead of the lame nokia nazi hands | 15:29 |
| chem|st | no | 15:29 |
| Macer | is it even possible to change the splash in m5? | 15:30 |
| chem|st | yes, the build sequence from the teaser would be nice | 15:30 |
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| Macer | hm | 15:32 |
| Macer | i should look | 15:32 |
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| chem|st | valerio developed a bootscreen app, should be in devel | 15:33 |
| chem|st | when did valerio vanish btw | 15:33 |
| chem|st | he maintains some apps but they are all stuck unfinished in devel | 15:33 |
| Macer | how do i turn the scrolling windows thing off? | 15:33 |
| Macer | i liked the scaled ones better | 15:34 |
| chem|st | you are talking crypts to me | 15:34 |
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| Macer | well.. with cssu .. when you tap the top left the windows scroll | 15:35 |
| Macer | before they were scaled | 15:35 |
| Macer | the more windows the smaller they were..the scrolling crap sucks | 15:36 |
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| chem|st | you mean the window overview | 15:41 |
| chem|st | idk | 15:41 |
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| BCMM | Macer: there are various apps to change the boot video, but you can also just replace the video file from the shell | 15:50 |
| BCMM | mine scrolls "DON'T PANIC" in large, friendly letters | 15:50 |
| Macer | what does it use? | 15:53 |
| Macer | is it just an mp4? | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: gimmegimmegimmegimme!!!!! | 15:53 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: the vid? | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes!! | 15:53 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: heh, lemme see if i have a copy that's not on the broken phone | 15:54 |
| chem|st | +1 | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm the inventor of the "DONT PANIC" bootscreen of openmoko SHR | 15:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I asked several times for that for N900 | 15:54 |
| BCMM | it may have been you're idea | 15:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | quite possibly | 15:54 |
| BCMM | i think somebody in this channel mentioned "don't panic" | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's been me | 15:55 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: can you check the framerate of the default video? | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, nfc how to do that | 15:55 |
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| BCMM | oh, mplayer will tell you in stdout if you play it | 15:56 |
| BCMM | you see, i played about with a few versions with different refresh rates | 15:56 |
| BCMM | i mean, fps | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, ok. I wonder if I got any mplayer installed though | 15:56 |
| BCMM | can't remember which one came out smoothest | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | where's that friggin video? | 15:57 |
| BCMM | Macer: mpeg-4 AVI | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | (path) | 15:57 |
| BCMM | hildon-welcome or something | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'll find | 15:57 |
| BCMM | i mean /usr/share/hildon-welcome | 15:57 |
| BCMM | i think? | 15:57 |
| Macer | oh | 15:58 |
| BCMM | oh wow | 15:58 |
| BCMM | mpeg-4 is really good at encoding frames where stuff just moves around | 15:58 |
| BCMM | 288kB | 15:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ?? /opt/usr/share/hildon-welcome/media/Hands-v32-h264.avi ?? | 15:59 |
| chem|st | [h264] 800x480 24bpp 24.000 fps 2332.0 kbps (284.7 kbyte/s) | 15:59 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: http://benmorris.org.uk/dontpanic.avi | 16:00 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's the one | 16:00 |
| markinfo | Hi. is there a possibility to record telephone call? | 16:01 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: you either overwrite that, or the new one in the same directory and edit a config file | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: no mplayer here :-/ | 16:01 |
| BCMM | it's ok, i'm pretty sure this one is hte right one | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know about the config file I think | 16:01 |
| BCMM | source available, if you're interested | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 16:01 |
| BCMM | source is a gimp XCF for the text, and a bash script that generates frames with imagemagick and renders video with mencoder | 16:01 |
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| BCMM | it's green because i use a green theme but it's easy to fix that in gimp and re-render | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, that'd be interesting for educational purpose nevertheless | 16:03 |
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| BCMM | i wouldn't use it for that, it's pretty ugly bash | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, of course my laptop refuses to play avi "no demuxer found" | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I love ugly bash ;-) | 16:05 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: what do you run on the laptop? | 16:05 |
| Macer | haha | 16:05 |
| Macer | use vlc | 16:05 |
| Macer | :-P | 16:05 |
| chem|st | BCMM: mmh I would like to do something alike with it showing a green black console, reading some starting progress, configuring launch silo controls, setting navigational control etc | 16:05 |
| BCMM | mplayer on phone and PC plays it fine | 16:05 |
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| Macer | yeah. i just looked at it bccm | 16:06 |
| Macer | does that just loop when it boots? | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is a somewhat OpenSuse-ish system here, that got updated since suse6.0, across unclean migration to kde4 and whatnot | 16:06 |
| Macer | yuck | 16:06 |
| Macer | :) | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | at some point in time all the unclean codecs borked | 16:07 |
| Macer | if you use kde you should use kubuntu | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeew | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no shuttleworth abominations on my machines | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I like *somewhat* clean linux | 16:08 |
| Macer | shuttleworth? | 16:08 |
| Macer | :) | 16:08 |
| BCMM | "source" at http://benmorris.org.uk/bootscreen/ | 16:08 |
| Macer | ive been using kubuntu for months.. it is great | 16:09 |
| BCMM | although if you do re-build it, you should probably adjust the FPS and ofps in the encoder script | 16:09 |
| BCMM | also, it will use like 25MB of disk space to generage a 250KB video | 16:09 |
| Macer | :) | 16:10 |
| Macer | 25MB | 16:10 |
| Macer | better use the fileserver | 16:10 |
| Macer | that video is like 5 secs | 16:10 |
| markinfo | is there for Phone recording something easyier than this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Recording_phonecalls ? | 16:11 |
| Macer | i could imagine rendering an entire movie | 16:11 |
| Macer | markinfo: if she is banging the mailman then recording your breakup conversation is not the way to go | 16:11 |
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| Macer | markinfo: i remember there being an app in the repos that did it | 16:12 |
| lardman|home | bbl | 16:13 |
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| BCMM | Macer: like i said, it does it stupidly | 16:14 |
| Macer | recall | 16:14 |
| Macer | . | 16:14 |
| BCMM | Macer: first it generates a PNG for each frame | 16:14 |
| Macer | ? | 16:14 |
| BCMM | which is the 25MB | 16:14 |
| Macer | markinfo: it says it right at the top of the page you posted :-P recaller | 16:14 |
| BCMM | then you use mencoder to make an .avi out of hte pngs | 16:14 |
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| Macer | BCMM: isn't that how it is done regardless of how you do it? | 16:15 |
| Macer | ;) | 16:15 |
| * Macer is reminded of film when people used to use that | 16:15 | |
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| BCMM | well, if it wasn't all done in bash, i'm sure you could render each frame in h264 as you generate it | 16:16 |
| Macer | most movies are filmed digitally nowadays arent they? | 16:16 |
| BCMM | instead of store all the frames, then do it | 16:16 |
| Macer | then grain filtered for that movie look? | 16:16 |
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| chem|st | Macer: nope analog | 16:17 |
| Macer | analog? | 16:18 |
| Macer | they still use film? | 16:18 |
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| chem|st | Macer: yes for sure | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | markinfo: http://maemo.org/packages/view/recaller/ | 16:18 |
| Macer | wow | 16:18 |
| BCMM | i think most big-budget films have substantial parts that are digitally altered, at least | 16:18 |
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| BCMM | if only to avoid actually having to go to all of the locations shown | 16:19 |
| chem|st | even digitaly generated movies get mastered on film | 16:19 |
| Macer | i thought they used digital cameras | 16:19 |
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| BCMM | yes, i know you can green-screen without digital tech, but it's less convincing | 16:19 |
| Macer | since it saves a ton of money | 16:19 |
| Macer | film is expensive | 16:19 |
| markinfo | hm - it means "recaller" records all calls? | 16:19 |
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| chem|st | markinfo: when you push the button! | 16:20 |
| nid0 | or when you tell it to automatically | 16:21 |
| markinfo | thanks - i will try. | 16:21 |
| chem|st | Macer: yes but digital has problems with lightning and stuff, bright daylight makes artifacts even on 10k€ CCDs | 16:21 |
| chem|st | will screw hildon-home... | 16:22 |
| phrearch | wohoo | 16:22 |
| phrearch | opera mobile 11 has websockets | 16:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | reminds me to give recaller another shot. been a while and some PR-versions back when it acted up on me, not stpping recording at end of call | 16:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and it been friggin awesome as long as it worked | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've been temped to donate as soon as I looked at the garage page, but then it says "use about/donate in recaller" ;-P | 16:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also it's a shame the most recent version hangs around in testing with 0 thumbs up | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | how is any sane devel going to maintain his pkg when it never leaves testing | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | another sneaky trick to suffocate maemo | 16:29 |
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| * DocScrutinizer opts for a "official" wrapper framework to wrap each single testing app into a starter wrapper that opens the garage page of the package on app-close, and explains to user he used a testing-app and it's his obligation to either give it thumbs-up now, or thumbs-down plus proper criticism | 16:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | can't be hard to establish | 16:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just x-fade (or whoever is in charge) had to implement that mandatory wrapper around all apps/pkgs in testing then | 16:34 |
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| rm_work | can you not promote packages now without getting thumbs up or something? >_> | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | never heard of that | 16:35 |
| rm_work | then why does it matter? | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can promote devel->testing | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | not testing->extras afaik | 16:35 |
| rm_work | ah, who does that? | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | the system | 16:35 |
| rm_work | last time I was doing it I could promote to extras myself | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | on 10 thumbs-up | 16:35 |
| rm_work | ah | 16:36 |
| rm_work | so, what i just asked :P | 16:36 |
| rm_work | does anyone actually realize that? >_> | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, actually you (the devel) have to do that, but you have to gather 10 thumb-up for being able to do so | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 16:37 |
| rm_work | what if you have 100 thumbs down and manage to get your 10th thumbs up, rofl | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a rule for that, read about it | 16:37 |
| rm_work | man, they've changed a lot around here | 16:38 |
| rm_work | i guess to prevent random spam | 16:38 |
| Venemo | ~seen MohammadAG | 16:39 |
| infobot | mohammadag is currently on #maemo (7h 5m 28s) #meego (7h 5m 28s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 5h 59m 34s, last said: 'I thought you said you were a contractor'. | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's like 10 days quarantine before you can promote to testing, and tehre's quite some conditions to be met to promote to extras | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | the odd thing is this applies for patches/new versions as well | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | and there's not been any solution to that yet | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | however an automatic popup of microb on right page, after you quit a testing app, should be easy to implement | 16:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there are fine apps hanging around and collecting dust in testing like forever now | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | in the end testing tends to be a showstopper | 16:42 |
| edheldil | better would be to ASK for permission to start microb and send you to the page | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp seeing how many borked-to-the-bones apps made it to extras | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | edheldil: where's the difference? | 16:43 |
| edheldil | the connection searching is pretty annoying if you are not already on wifi | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you can deny connection when you're concerned about that | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't see the difference between the two requesters | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~extras-testing | 16:53 |
| infobot | rumour has it, extras-testing is the maemo testing repository, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-05-19.log.html#t2011-05-19T16:27:37 | 16:53 |
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| openstandards | hi | 16:58 |
| openstandards | whats the best way to back up my n900 onto my pc as i have to send it back to nokia | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | sftp, or even better rsync | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | sftp://ip-of-my-n900 in your favourite filebrowser is a raher convenient way | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Also 'backup' | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | not to PC | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | This will back up the calls and other databases in a way that can be easily resored | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | you back those databases up to a file on mydocs, and you then copy across to PC | 17:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | quite a partial backup nevertheless | 17:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I got a full copy of rootfs and /home fs on my PC, done via rsync (daily by a cronjob ;-D) | 17:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually sftp://root@ip-of-my-n900 | 17:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or - probably best way - use backupmenu | 17:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then copy the tarball(s) to your PC | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | hail robbiethe2st | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | err 1st | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.org/packages/view/backupmenu/ | 17:13 |
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| ShadowJK | bug 12237 | 17:15 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12237 Default WiFi power-saving mode 'Maximum' is unreliable and performs poorly | 17:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | errr wut? | 17:15 |
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| ShadowJK | cssu madness | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't that related to the particular AP implemetation definitely? | 17:16 |
| ShadowJK | good, it's ignored so far :) | 17:16 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "go fix the wifi-chip's firmware, fool!" | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | INVALID - done | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 17:18 |
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| openstandards | SpeedEvil: what does backup.... backup? | 17:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It backs up what it says it backs up. | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Calls/text/databases, and application lists. | 17:21 |
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| merlin1991 | and a few settings | 17:21 |
| merlin1991 | I think xchat adds itself to the things to backup too | 17:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | some apps definitely don't | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | some tweaks to /etc/*random also not saved | 17:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: see my comment to 12237 :-P | 17:26 |
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| ShadowJK | I recently bought a wifi ap brand A and usb wireless adapter brand A. PSM didn't work :) | 17:29 |
| ShadowJK | but it did work with N900 | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 17:30 |
| markinfo | I have installed a widget - but how to use that? How to start it? | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | install it from desktop wrench | 17:31 |
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| markinfo | These are this Thing that lies on the desktop? | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | i.e. click homescreen, click gear, click menu, add widget | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | click "done" :-) | 17:33 |
| markinfo | DocScrutinizer, I have installed http://maemo.org/packages/view/recaller/ ...but there is no such Widget - of this name. Is it necessary to restart? | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | you added the widget to your desktop? by procedure I toldya? | 17:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or do you say recaller is missing in the add-widget dropdown menu? | 17:35 |
| frozen_de | are there any problems with ssu and mmc? | 17:35 |
| markinfo | there is really "add widget" ...but there is only few of them like Email, First steps .... the last is Place | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | reboot then | 17:35 |
| frozen_de | didnt solve the problem | 17:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | recaler should be there | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 17:36 |
| frozen_de | mmc cover state open | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | frozen_de: wasn't meant to you | 17:36 |
| markinfo | i will try restart. | 17:36 |
| frozen_de | oh :> | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | mmc cover state open possibly means you lost your stand magnet | 17:36 |
| frozen_de | i know, i tested another magnet of the fridge on the sensor | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the problem then | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | cssu not involved | 17:37 |
| frozen_de | ok damn, then i cant use the sd anymore in my n900 :( | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | cssu doesn't touch that subsystem domain | 17:38 |
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| joga | this may not be a good channel to ask this but here goes anyway... do you know some simple vector editor for linux that could export Shapefile format? | 17:38 |
| joga | I found a command line tool but it's a bit tedious | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly as good as #random channel, anyway no idea. Wait for other replies | 17:39 |
| lardman | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_geographic_information_systems_software ? | 17:40 |
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| markinfo | DocScrutinizer, after restart there is red Button on the desktop at once - it seems be this widget - was automatically after restart added. | 17:40 |
| lardman | or is this a non-gis use for shapefiles? | 17:40 |
| joga | lardman, this is actually for a lego robot, a new version of lejos can read in the maps as Shapefiles | 17:40 |
| lardman | oh cool | 17:41 |
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| joga | so I just need to be able to put a few polygons or lines there | 17:41 |
| joga | (or do it myself) | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | markinfo: ok, then that's te explanation why it wasn't in list of widgets :-) | 17:41 |
| lardman | I don't have any experience other than trying to get MATLAB to read shapefiles from the Ordnance Survey datasets | 17:41 |
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| joga | it's not that important really, but would be nice for testing | 17:41 |
| openstandards | where is backup stored afterwards | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | of backup app? | 17:42 |
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| lardman | joga: is the format simple enough that you could write your own editor? | 17:43 |
| openstandards | yeah | 17:43 |
| lardman | I presume you're just planning to do ahead 2m, right 6m; rather than trying to do map-like scales? | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | either somewhere in MyDocs, or on your uSD if you selected so and had one inserted | 17:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /MyDocs/backups/* | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess | 17:46 |
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| openstandards | cheers.... need to send my n900 back to nokia the micro usb is..... :( | 17:49 |
| ShadowJK | I almost don't want to see a N900+1 :) | 17:49 |
| joga | lardman, yeah it's simple enough, it's just that I'd like it to be simple enough for the students to use too and I may not have time to code a mostly bug-free editor right now as I only have a few days ;) | 17:50 |
| ShadowJK | (because it'll take weeks and weeks to migrate to new os) | 17:50 |
| lardman | ah fair enough, didn't realise it was a student project | 17:50 |
| lardman | in that case have them each design an editor too! ;) | 17:50 |
| joga | yes, that's an option ;) | 17:51 |
| openstandards | ShadowJK: i wouldn't mind seeing meego in action but i doubt the phone will be as good as the n900 | 17:51 |
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| joga | I'll just probably make an example with a hardcoded map and tell them where to go from there | 17:51 |
| openstandards | like will the new one have infra red... | 17:51 |
| openstandards | fm transmitter... | 17:51 |
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| openstandards | etc | 17:51 |
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| ShadowJK | I suspect it'll be "MeeGo compatible" at best | 17:51 |
| lardman | I don't care about the transmitter tbh, wasn't very useful for me, but a receiver is pretty important | 17:52 |
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| openstandards | lardman: trasmitter is good in work :) | 17:52 |
| openstandards | tune your work radio into your phone and bam | 17:52 |
| lardman | why not just listen with headphones? | 17:52 |
| ShadowJK | I tried that radio app once and it was totally unusable :) | 17:53 |
| openstandards | its a fanastic feature | 17:53 |
| lardman | ah, for all the office? | 17:53 |
| Venemo | I never used the FM receiver of the N900, but I did use the FM transmitter lots of times | 17:53 |
| flux | not many cars have line-in | 17:53 |
| lardman | dnla or whatever it's called then, join the 21st Century ;) | 17:53 |
| ShadowJK | fmtx has the advantage of lasting all workday on battery :) | 17:53 |
| lardman | ok, so I'm outvoted, no worries :) | 17:54 |
| ShadowJK | dnla is like 3-4 hours batterylife | 17:54 |
| markinfo | DocScrutinizer, It means all widget may be used only once? And then disappears from this "add widget" menu? | 17:55 |
| ShadowJK | a2dp is a bit better.. but not much | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | markinfo: depends. In the beginning that's been the case. Afaik recaller been on of the first apps that shipped around that issue. Nowadays there's a documented way for hildon to have several identical widgets | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | depending on the particular widget and its config | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | recaller explicitly makes use of several widgets for diferent purposes | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | (however wicked that approach might be) | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | queen beecon for example lives on the prerequisite to get installed as widget multiple times | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | other widgets explicitly don't want to see their twins around | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I suspect recaller's installation being quite a bit hackerish to get around the early problems with this. So expect unusual behaviour until reboot | 18:02 |
| arvut | will C# run on a N900? | 18:02 |
| chem|st | lardman: even fmtx handsfree radiotransmit works flawless | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | *BURRP* | 18:02 |
| ShadowJK | i think I saw someone in here yesterday with a mono port | 18:02 |
| chem|st | arvut: what is C# | 18:03 |
| lardman | chem|st: does it now autoscan for channels with no other signals? | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | MO - NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! | 18:03 |
| arvut | in other words, is there a framework for C# available for maemo5? | 18:03 |
| ShadowJK | and mono runs C# so.. | 18:03 |
| chem|st | lardman: nope | 18:03 |
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| Venemo | arvut, you can run .NET executables with Mono, yes. | 18:03 |
| arvut | mono is available for maemo5 then? cool =) | 18:03 |
| lardman | chem|st: that's the problem I had, and it was annoying needing to work out exactly which channel to tune to to avoid that | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | arvut: but maemo isn't available for mono ;-P | 18:04 |
| arvut | I've decided to learn some C#, C++ got too heavy, will continue with it later | 18:04 |
| chem|st | lardman: but that would need an attached cable so very useful for me with never having a headset with me ever! o_O | 18:04 |
| arvut | DocScrutinizer: can you elaborate on that please? | 18:04 |
| lardman | chem|st: no, the fm transmitter hw has a basic tuner too for afaict finding quiet channels, would be interesting to get that working from a purely scientific point of view | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | arvut: on a less funny word: do whatever you like on your device, but prepare to see thumbs-down for various reasons when you try to get any mono app into extras | 18:05 |
| lardman | chem|st: I work in a shared office, so I always use headphones, so it's not a big thing for me (plus I can store far more music on my external HDD than my N900) | 18:05 |
| chem|st | lardman: there was an approach BUT without attached headset useless | 18:05 |
| lardman | chem|st: ah I see what you mean, I wonder which tuner that was trying to use then, interesting | 18:06 |
| chem|st | lardman: my carradio has usb but doesn't like my 1TB hdd... | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | arvut: in other words, I think mono is a broken thing on any linux machine | 18:06 |
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| lardman | I'm not too fussed by music in the car | 18:06 |
| arvut | DocScrutinizer: how come? | 18:07 |
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| crashanddie | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRsaExGcx5A | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | bad experience with all those mono based random crap | 18:07 |
| chem|st | lardman: yeah it actually would work if the reciever would be able to catch even weak signals | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: lardman: exactly | 18:08 |
| arvut | DocScrutinizer: might stick to windows for the moment but would be cool to know if I could in the future write C# programs for this lovely phone :P | 18:08 |
| chem|st | I mean without antenna-style-headset tightened right through my car | 18:08 |
| lardman | I wonder how that transmitter chipset's receiver is designed to work then, whether it actually comes with an aerial or not wrapped around inside - though that might not be very efficient | 18:08 |
| crashanddie | If you want to laugh, you may want to have a look at that video I posted | 18:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | arvut: why not switch to c++, objective c, or plain c instead? | 18:09 |
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| ShadowJK | heh | 18:09 |
| lardman | crashanddie: lol | 18:10 |
| lardman | hmm, and I thought insurance was boring: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13454160 | 18:10 |
| arvut | DocScrutinizer: I will, one day.. for now I'll study some C#. did get a bit tired of C++ and havent done C in a loong time. C# feels somewhat fresh | 18:10 |
| chem|st | lardman: + the transmitter denies to work with headset connected, would need a hack as the device does not know about the dimming of the antenna (private radio station...) | 18:10 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: ew c++ | 18:10 |
| kerio | :< | 18:10 |
| arvut | C++ is a bit overwhelming for sure | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: eew C# | 18:11 |
| ShadowJK | there's that replacement fmtxd that allows fmtx with cables connected | 18:11 |
| arvut | but I still love it | 18:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's almost even worse | 18:11 |
| chem|st | ShadowJK: does it really work though? | 18:11 |
| ShadowJK | haven't tried it | 18:11 |
| chem|st | needs at least some heavier tweak right_ | 18:11 |
| kerio | but the horribleness of the language beats the horribleness of the associated politics | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | is reported to work | 18:12 |
| chem|st | OTB? | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | kinda | 18:12 |
| lardman | chem|st: I was thinking about using the transmitter chipset's receiver | 18:12 |
| chem|st | ahhh ^^ | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: the antenna of FMTX is really poor | 18:12 |
| chem|st | lardman: you won't get signal on bands that will interfear with your car radio | 18:13 |
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| lardman | so it's not good enough to pick up a signal on things that would interfere? | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | this concept of integrated fmrx for finding chan by FMTX chip could work if they cared more about a proper antenna, but that is difficult for ambedded | 18:13 |
| lardman | ok, well that's a reason for not using it then :) | 18:13 |
| ShadowJK | Even without the typical language vs another language issues... Running several frameworks/runtimes on a limited RAM system makes for sluggishness. I killed all python widgets and responsiveness improved, jitter/stutter was reduced. The same applies probably to QT, ruby, perl, java, and whatever else is popular these days... | 18:13 |
| lardman | bbiab | 18:14 |
| chem|st | ShadowJK: +1 | 18:14 |
| ShadowJK | so if the phone was primarily built on Mono I'd probably say it'd make more sense to use Mono C# as that imposes the least additional burden on ram | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: ++ | 18:15 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, has anyone tried using fmtx rx for channel hopping? I've been meaning to do it but never had time :) | 18:15 |
| dangergrrl | mono is still msft crap | 18:15 |
| chem|st | lardman: as soon as I get another device I will torcher it to do some hardware changes... | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: no decent reports here on that, only hearsay | 18:15 |
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| chem|st | +1 | 18:16 |
| * ShadowJK wondrs if you can bang fmtx with i2c-tools from userspace | 18:16 | |
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| kerio | you can bang fmtx with v4l-ctl | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus of course scientific evaluation of the theoretical case | 18:16 |
| ShadowJK | I'd want to make a poor man's spectrum analyzer at around 100MHz, to find leaking ethernet and stuff | 18:16 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, iirc the drivers don't expose the "find quietest channel and switch to it" feature? | 18:17 |
| kerio | there's something like that? :o | 18:17 |
| kerio | cool | 18:17 |
| chem|st | ShadowJK: that needs some hal... | 18:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't recall that. | 18:18 |
| chem|st | lmc if I have a spare one to mount with a 3.5 jack... | 18:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I do remember a 'measure power on given channel' | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | well pals, my suggestion is a completely different one anyway: find a silent freq on your car radio, then let N900 figure out the right freq to TX, by sending a pilot and feedback via mic | 18:18 |
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| chem|st | SpeedEvil: you wont se pulses in ranges of ns | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | way better usability, cleaner concept | 18:19 |
| ShadowJK | iirc I read the kernel driver and it didn't implement "measure power on given channel" or "find free channel" features, which the hardware supports | 18:19 |
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| chem|st | the hardware itself has those features? | 18:19 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 18:20 |
| chem|st | then we need new drivers... | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I promised to come up with a RFC how to do that long time ago here in this chan, but basically this one sentence above has it all | 18:20 |
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| ShadowJK | the intent has probably been that fmtx can find quietest frequenceis independently, and your receiver radio automatically follows it with RDS | 18:20 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: start coding then... | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, the chip manuf had no particular original intention | 18:21 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: sounds like a good idea to me | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: I've been a coder when I was young. Now I'm senior system architect and project lead usually | 18:22 |
| chem|st | get someone to code then, right? ;) | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | rrrrright | 18:23 |
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| chem|st | where is MohammadAG | 18:23 |
| Venemo | scientists have figured out the reason for the behaviour of apple's fanboys. http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/apple-evokes-religious-response-from-fans-957163 | 18:23 |
| Venemo | ~seen MohammadAG | 18:23 |
| merlin1991 | lmao | 18:23 |
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| infobot | mohammadag is currently on #maemo (8h 49m 55s) #meego (8h 49m 55s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 7h 44m 1s, last said: 'I thought you said you were a contractor'. | 18:23 |
| * merlin1991 propses an addition to the topic: "need some code done? ping MohammadAG" | 18:24 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: whatever, I guess we could make this fly with a shellscript accessing some /sys/* and exploiting sox or whatever | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if only there was some decent cmdline tool for messing with pukeaudio. All I know is playsound, nothing to select a particular output (earpiece, speakers...) or even to record and select mic | 18:29 |
| lardman | I had also planned to write the follow quietest channel, but as with other people more pressing matters (mBarcode, day job) intruded on my masterplan | 18:33 |
| lardman | plus as I said I'm not that fussed to listen to music in the car, so not really a major factor there | 18:33 |
| lardman | has there been anything interesting related to the "n950" in the kernel patches recently? Anything new for example? | 18:36 |
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| ShadowJK | My initial reaction whenever I've accidentally stumbled upon people faffing about with the kernel, has been to hide my face with my hand | 18:37 |
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| Venemo | ShadowJK, aka. facepalm? | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | indeed | 18:44 |
| lardman | because that way they can't see you hwy ShadowJK ? ;) | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | cry | 18:44 |
| lardman | oh, that :) | 18:44 |
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| lardman | time for home | 18:45 |
| lardman | catch you chaps tomorrow | 18:45 |
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| Venemo | bb lardman | 18:45 |
| Venemo | btw, what is the "N950"? | 18:45 |
| andre__ | upcoming new hardware, according to the interwebs. | 18:46 |
| Venemo | andre__, it has been only rumour, last time I heard of it | 18:46 |
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| nid0 | well, there's a leaked nokia promo video out now that nokia had pulled | 18:47 |
| Venemo | nid0, link pls? | 18:47 |
| nid0 | no-one seems certain whether itll be named n950 or n9 though | 18:47 |
| nid0 | http://mynokiablog.com/2011/05/19/nokia-pulls-nokia-n9-teaser-vid-from-youtube/ | 18:48 |
| andre__ | a "leaked nokia promo video" without any product name shown in the video? well, if people want to believe they do.... :) | 18:48 |
| GAN900 | andre__, did you see it? | 18:49 |
| nid0 | well, its a video of a device clearly not running symbian or wp7, in a design matching every other piece of info about the n9/n950 | 18:49 |
| Venemo | GAN900, it is in the linked site | 18:49 |
| Venemo | and it looks quite un-promising, compared to the N90 | 18:49 |
| Venemo | and it looks quite un-promising, compared to the N900 | 18:49 |
| GAN900 | There are also FCC docs. | 18:50 |
| petteri | looked promising to me | 18:50 |
| * GAN900 too | 18:50 | |
| andre__ | GAN900, yes, saw it once | 18:50 |
| Venemo | no camera lens cove | 18:50 |
| nid0 | ditto, except the keyboard | 18:50 |
| GAN900 | andre__, looks pretty authentic to me. :P | 18:50 |
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| * Arkenoi trolled on dev days ok. "We are especially happy about the sense of confidence Nokia provides to developer community -- Me: Tell that to Meego developers, it makes fun!" | 18:50 | |
| Venemo | no camera lens cover, iphone-looking icons, etc. | 18:50 |
| andre__ | GAN900, might be real, might not be real. still it's a little bit fishy to not have any product name in there | 18:50 |
| Venemo | the only thing looking good on it is the keyboard. | 18:50 |
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| GAN900 | andre__, matches the FCC docs pretty closely. | 18:51 |
| GAN900 | UI shots were fairly clearly real. | 18:51 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, Symbian Anna icons. | 18:51 |
| Venemo | GAN900, whatever. they look awful | 18:51 |
| * GAN900 shrugs | 18:52 | |
| GAN900 | Icons can be changed. | 18:52 |
| andre__ | GAN900, ah, nice to know, then I can take that video a lit bit more serious :) | 18:52 |
| GAN900 | andre__, skeptical old me believes that's legit. | 18:52 |
| GAN900 | FCC confidentiality ends middle of June. | 18:52 |
| GAN900 | So we'll know within a month. | 18:53 |
| Venemo | ~FCC | 18:53 |
| infobot | well, fcc is (Federal Communications Commission) These are the people in the government who decide what's legal and illegal to broadcast, including what frequencies are allowed to be used by whom. | 18:53 |
| Venemo | "in the government" -> which government? | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | US | 18:53 |
| andre__ | US&A | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | (if Federal shouldn't give it away) | 18:53 |
| Venemo | ah. | 18:53 |
| Venemo | yeah, "Federal". sure. | 18:54 |
| nid0 | there are lots of federal governments | 18:54 |
| Venemo | isn't there a similar entity in the EU? | 18:54 |
| nid0 | it tends to only be americans to think theirs is the only one | 18:54 |
| Venemo | nid0 ++ | 18:54 |
| GAN900 | nid0, sure, but nor a lot of agencies calling themselves "Federal" elsewhere. | 18:54 |
| GAN900 | It tends to be Europeans who dish out the American hate to makes themselves feel better. | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, modulo the FCC stuff, what's new on that N9?? beyond what we know since last August? | 18:55 |
| Venemo | GAN900, I do not have any hate for Americans | 18:55 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, nothing solid | 18:55 |
| GAN900 | (Also: Canadians, because they're different than Americans "we swear!") | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing at all | 18:56 |
| GAN900 | 6-band cellular | 18:56 |
| GAN900 | 802.11n | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's FCC | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's FCC | 18:56 |
| GAN900 | Oh, right. | 18:56 |
| * GAN900 's reading comprehension is low. | 18:56 | |
| GAN900 | They're using the Symbian Anna look! | 18:56 |
| GAN900 | Ovi Maps is bundled. | 18:57 |
| Venemo | wtf is "Symbian Anna" anyway? and why should we care about it? | 18:57 |
| GAN900 | Venema PR2 for Symbian^3 | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | got this link since err, 9 months now: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 | 18:57 |
| nid0 | DocScrutinizer: someone on tmo did some semibullshit pixel guesswork to assume a 1280x720 screen... | 18:57 |
| nid0 | that's new | 18:57 |
| GAN900 | We shouldn't, that's just the theme they're borrowing. | 18:57 |
| GAN900 | It's 16:9 856x480 (or whatever) | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | *burrp* | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | how boring | 18:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer feels like this is tmo | 18:59 | |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer ++ | 18:59 |
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| nid0 | the video does confirm AF rather than edof on the camera, afaik that wasnt mentioned in the fcc info | 19:01 |
| merlin1991 | raise new DocScrutinizerDoesntApproveException | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | in fact I'm still pondering if that "promo" is a mockup from that link I posted, plus random other shit | 19:02 |
| GAN900 | It's not | 19:02 |
| GAN900 | Look at the UI shots | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ghhh | 19:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | quite probably it's *some* leaked promo for *some* Nokia product | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe even a random PoC for a new PR strategy, unrelated to the particular device used | 19:04 |
| GAN900 | Well, it's not WP7, and it's not Symbian | 19:04 |
| GAN900 | So our options are limited | 19:04 |
| GAN900 | We'll know by June | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not WP7? don't they have mobile powerpoint or sth like that? | 19:06 |
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| nid0 | if it is then theyve gone a long way out of their way to make a maemo/meego style mockup | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's definitely not a maemo lookalike | 19:08 |
| nid0 | the calendar is incredibly similar looking to fremantle, as is the task switcher | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | and what exactly *is* meego style ;-D | 19:08 |
| nid0 | and the status bar is identical to meego's | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ohmy, so you really can see some interim version of meego handset UX there. Incredible, but what does that tell us about *the device* | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | look, I've seen youtube videos of N900 running OSX | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I've seen photoshoped "N900 previews" that clearly show a N810 in black | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I don't give a flying F* about that "leaked trailer" | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for all I can tell it's a null-info about anything, and might even be a hoax | 19:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just like plan-b | 19:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, fair enough, then wait until the confidentiality expires. | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | will this disclose more *interesting* details? | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (not trolling) | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the FCC actually gave some good hints, as for example it seems they got a new modem chipset | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, actual device photos (external and internal) and the user manual. | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | It also assume that Nokia will have something meaningful to say about the device before the confidentiality expires. | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 19:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm still afraid it's running harmattan bastard and will further contribute to maemo suffocation, while not giving meego-arm any benefit whatsoever | 19:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It probably is. | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yet another fuckedup DOA OS | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | this time *really* DOA | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | the poisoned gift to the FOSS community | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | and quite likely with blobs for all core apps once again | 19:29 |
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| edheldil | DOA? | 19:32 |
| nid0 | dead on arrival | 19:32 |
| edheldil | ah, ty. The more it is dead, the less damage it causes :) | 19:33 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, we really don't know anything new about hw features at all. | 19:34 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, IMO, there probably will not be any improvement over the N900 | 19:34 |
| edheldil | metal frame, or is it just plastics again? | 19:35 |
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| BCMM | i have limited battery life, no way to recharge, and want to recover data over wifi before it runs out of energy. what can i do to prolong battery life? | 19:57 |
| BCMM | (the SIM is out) | 19:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: well, it just means we'll get started that much sooner on getting real MeeGo up and running. | 20:03 |
| slonopotamus | you can turn it off | 20:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | But at least we'll have a slightly less shitty kernel to work with. | 20:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | BCMM, order yourself one of those battery chargers off eBay. | 20:04 |
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| BCMM | i took it to a shop where they charged it for a pound | 20:04 |
| BCMM | it came back only very slightly charged, though | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: who's supposed to buy a device with a fsckdup OS that's not backward compatible to N900, and not forward compatible to real meego? | 20:08 |
| * GeneralAntilles shrugs. | 20:08 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I probably will. | 20:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because it's the only option I've got left right now. | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: probably nobody who's interested in a FOSS device | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: why not get an iPhone then? | 20:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Teehee: http://digitallife.today.com/_news/2011/05/18/6667233-secret-service-interrogates-13-year-old-over-facebook-post | 20:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because it's a useless piece of shit that isn't open at all? | 20:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least with the Nokia you can (probably) load your own OS. | 20:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least they (were) trying to forward open source (in their own fucked up way). | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, it's as open as that harmattan bastard ever will be | 20:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least there's some possibility of running proper MeeGo in the future. | 20:11 |
| Venemo | so what? | 20:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, bullshit. | 20:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Full stop bullshit. | 20:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is there really anything open source on the iPhone? :) | 20:11 |
| Venemo | it will probably be capable of running the "real" meego. whether "real" meego will be worth running at all remains to be seen. | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | and when this will happen, as well | 20:12 |
| slonopotamus | Venemo: :) | 20:12 |
| Venemo | even the N900 can run meego, so why the N9(50?) wouldn't | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: exactly, so why the N9(50?)? | 20:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: better, stronger, faster? | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | on running the possibly 7 existing apps, yeah | 20:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Same reason I'd rather have an i7 over a Core Duo. | 20:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles shrugs. | 20:13 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Day-to-day I use exactly 4 applications. | 20:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | (if you don't count SMS/phone as an application) | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | so get an iphone ;-P | 20:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: see my point above | 20:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | the iPhone is painful to use. | 20:15 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, what do you mean, "7 existing apps"? | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: which app do you know of that's fit for harmattan bastard? | 20:16 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I must assume that puzzle-master is one of the 7, so which ones are the other 6? | 20:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ovi Maps will probably be better. | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I must assume then that you're one of those that jump off the maemo ship to develop for a stillborn platform called harmattan meego in the future? | 20:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly I'd guess you better choose real meego then, if you're planning to leave maemo | 20:19 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, you assume wrong. | 20:19 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, however, Qt works on Harmattan equally as well as on other platforms. | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 20:19 |
| Venemo | I do not intend to leave Maemo, nor do I intend to buy the new device :) | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course, especially the sensor shit, for e.g puzzlemaster's autosliding the tiles option | 20:20 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, that shit will probably work better on Harmattan than on MeeGo | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe, but who knows | 20:21 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, at least we don't know if harmattan insists on "upstream" as much as meego. let's hope not. | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I actually don't care, unless Nokia planned to roll out harmattan as a true upgrade to maemo-*, on all devices (well at least on those running fremantle right now) | 20:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or it's 100% compatible to either fremantle or true meego - I don't see either | 20:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm just not interested in another flavour of "linux" contaminated with blobs for core apps, locked to exactly one device to run on, guaranteed to get no updates, and with no migration path to anything more sane, whatever that might be in the end | 20:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | They need to invent nano-tech self-cleaning glasess. | 20:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/glasess/glasses | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah, did I mention "not API compatible to anything else"? | 20:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you could as well go for bada, at least this one seems to get support and new devices in the future - well, it's at very least not yet declared to never get any | 20:29 |
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| ShadowJK | bada looks more like a "featurephone" thing though | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't care what it looks like, as I'm sure it doesn't look like anything I'd want to use | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I honestly don't get GeneralAntilles' point about FOSS in harmattan, as long as we don't know if it's maybe less FOSS than even maemo | 20:32 |
| * GeneralAntilles shrugs. | 20:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Clearly this isn't worth arguing about until something is announced. | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ack | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | my general objection stands it've been way more sane to keep harmattan a proper upgrade to fremantle, than to cripple it to fubar and uselessness by trying to make it meegoish | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | meego harmattan -W! T! F! | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | If only webOS weren't bullshit and portrait. | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | use SHR ;-D | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc pre been 2nd device after FR for SHR to get ported to | 20:37 |
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| Arkenoi | btw Nokia guys just confirmed today all Symbian devices will be 640x350 (maybe less, but not more) until Symbian dies out | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 20:38 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, yeah, I agree with you | 20:39 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, this is why I said, I do not intend to leave Maemo, nor do I intend to buy the new device :) | 20:40 |
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| Arkenoi | err, 640x360 | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't make THAT much of a diff ;-) | 20:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - I disagree. | 20:47 |
| SpeedEvil | If the size limit is rising at the rate of almost 2 pixels a minute, that's soon going to be compelling. | 20:48 |
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| Venemo | Arkenoi, they just confirmed why symbian is, and will be forever, crap | 21:02 |
| * SpeedEvil rather disagrees. | 21:03 | |
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| SpeedEvil | (if it's resokution) | 21:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I question most users ability to notice if you use 640*350, or 1280*700 downsampled. | 21:04 |
| derf | Depends on what you're downsampling, and how. | 21:05 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, I'm not referring to just the resolution | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | K | 21:05 |
| Venemo | rather the philosophy of symbian devices. | 21:05 |
| Venemo | that is, all since q3 2007 | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | You mean nihilism? | 21:06 |
| Venemo | I mean the complete lack of any ability or willingness to evolve | 21:06 |
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| Venemo | they had a very nice symbian device in 2007, the N95. all of their non-touchscreen phones since then are running the same system | 21:07 |
| Venemo | in fact, most of them were just N95 clones with a different exterior look | 21:08 |
| Venemo | and they are not letting go of some concepts of their non-touch UI that are useless on touchscreens | 21:09 |
| Venemo | at the release of Fremantle, I was hoping that they'll adapt it to all their new devices, but they haven't, despite the fact that it is vastly superior to anything that Symbian could possibly provide | 21:10 |
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| Venemo | now they release "symbian anna" whose greatest "feature" is redesigned (crappier-looking) icons. | 21:11 |
| Venemo | don't you see the irony? | 21:11 |
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| * RST38h is tired of seeing the irony in whatever Nokia is doing | 21:14 | |
| Proteous | heh | 21:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: hehe | 21:21 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders when we'll start seeing metallic glass cellphone cases. | 21:23 | |
| SpeedEvil | (made of metal - not glass - it's amorphous metal) | 21:23 |
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| Arkenoi | they say anna has some integrated IM. poorly integrated, they admit it | 21:31 |
| Arkenoi | and it is already available for beta testers, i am going to try :-) | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | So, you're pro anna? | 21:32 |
| Arkenoi | nope, i am just curious, nokia provided me free e7 so i feel obliged to try :-) | 21:32 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 21:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'Ok - I installed meego on it' - what now? | 21:33 |
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| Arkenoi | i wish i could! | 21:34 |
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| Macer | for the love of god is tyere a way to go back to the older window switching? | 21:37 |
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| RST38h | Arkanoid: Where is Anna? | 21:40 |
| RST38h | Arkanoid: I wanna try too, after all the trouble... | 21:40 |
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| Arkenoi | RST38h, they say you may come to Nokia office and ask for it. Elena Orlova promised me to provide further details and contacts. | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Macer: uh? | 22:00 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Ah, interesting | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm off (@ pub looking for Annas) | 22:01 |
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| Macer | faster application manager should be the default | 22:27 |
| MohammadAG | no, it should not | 22:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | definitely fapman been right choice - for the name | 22:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | for all I know HAM is open, so patch it to do whatever you like, but don't implement any fapman as an excuse to do nasty thing / forget about mandatory things that HAM takes care of | 22:46 |
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| MohammadAG | merlin1991, git reset --hard = return to latest commit right? | 22:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: srewed up? ;-) | 22:49 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, nah, just making sure :P | 22:50 |
| cehteh | MohammadAG: yes, kindof | 22:50 |
| cehteh | (better use 'git stash' for extra safety) | 22:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: what do you think of a generic applet (kinda queenbeecon is for widgets)? | 22:55 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, didn't get that :/ | 22:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | a applet that doesn't ask hal about battery status or sth whatever, instead it has a config file where you till it about menu button name, which command to execute on buttonclick, you tell which cmd to call for getting name of png to display, and (dunno) you tell about how often to update | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, how often does a usual applet update? | 23:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | is it using an internal sleep/wait/whatever, or is it a thread called by HD every now and then? | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | i.e. must main() quit as fast as possibly, or virtually never? | 23:02 |
| cehteh | why polling? there are enough events you can listen for, at worst just menu activate | 23:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sure, that's why I ask | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | never suggested polling, just asking if maybe HD does | 23:04 |
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| Sicelo_ | /sb claw | 23:09 |
| Sicelo_ | yay | 23:09 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, a homescreen applet is just a window/widget with a special flag | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG | it can get a signal whenever the desktop is switched to | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | we're talking bout bat-applet + friends, in systray? | 23:16 |
| MohammadAG | oh, you meant hildon-status-menu plugins? | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | they're just GtkWidgets | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mhm, whatever that means | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | you can have any GtkWidget in there | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | a slider, a button, a label etc | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | walking, bbiab | 23:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that's for the menu, right, forgot about that (let's assume it's all just buttons for now). I'm talking bout the mini-ison in status area aka systray, where the animated battery icon lives, and the wifi ison that doesn't show signal strength | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (what's an ison?? :-o) | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm thinking of some code that has *nothing* hardcoded, but has a config file to make it do meaningful things. Simplest case: show up / hide | 23:25 |
| jacekowski | any interpretable language | 23:26 |
| jacekowski | and you can consider script file to be a config file | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd give that generic applet a cmdline "/opt/my/whichicon" that either returns "/share/icons/myfoo.png" or "", and accordingly there's either myfoo icon or nuttin in systray | 23:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for battery icon the similar /opt/my/whichbat" would return a pointer to a battery status icon acccording to charge state of battery | 23:28 |
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| MohammadAG51 | interpreted vs compiled doesn't matter in this case | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | you need to killall or watch the config file | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: that's niche considerations. Usual applets don't watch config file or do killalls - battery icon doesn't, signal-strength icon doesn't | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | actually I think the USB applet uses ionotify | 23:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm simply suggesting to replace the hardcoded inotify/hal-ipc/sbud-listening/whatever logic, by a simple system() | 23:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/sbud/dbus/. | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | inotify would work well actually | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | it only fails on /sys and /proc, which is expected | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, but you miss the point | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | you want queen beacon-like stuff in hildon-status-menu | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes! | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | wasn't there an applet for that btw | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | quick-launch I think | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno | 23:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | let's think of something silly: a lux-meter showing brightness as a bar similar to load applet cpu load - you'd get script mylux.sh that does read the /sys/*/lux, decides which icon is the right one for ambient lux value, and do "echo $righticon; exit". The applet would call mylux.sh and display the icon according to output of that script | 23:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rsp display nuttin if the script outputs null string | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm, and what's the refresh timeout? | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's been my question: how is refresh timeout handled for applets? | 23:41 |
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| MohammadAG51 | g_timeout_add afaik | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | does the applet code pass a microseconds value back to H-D(?), or is there a sort of wait()/usleep()/whatever inside the code itself | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | aka polls | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so you pass a timeout value to $randomplace | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | a timer that keeps calling a callback | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | normal glib actually, not h-d related | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | inside applet code? | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | sec, lemme kill my PC's xchat connection and bring up my bouncer | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, it's normal C/Gtk | 23:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, so let's define it as follows: the applet calls the script, and the script does a sleep 60, then returns the pointer string to the icon to display. The applet immediately calls the script again | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so the timer and callback function gets completely replaced by a endless loop calling {icon=system("myapplet.sh); display(icon);} | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (pseudocode! you know better than me how to do it right) | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: back? | 23:49 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 23:51 |
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| MohammadAG | the timer keeps calling the callback (typically this callback returns a gboolean), when it returns false the loop is broken | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: the applet sleeping would happen completely inside system(), inside the called myapplet.sh script, by either a sleep 60, or a read<namedpipe, or whatever | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so let's define it as follows: the applet calls the script, and the script does a sleep 60, then returns the pointer string to the icon to display. The applet immediately calls the script again | 23:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so the timer and callback function gets completely replaced by a endless loop calling {icon=system("myapplet.sh); display(icon);} | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | (pseudocode! you know better than me how to do it right) | 23:53 |
| javispedro | you should not block in an applet | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's been my question :-) | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, callback. I see, I see | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme think about it | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | just use a glib timer of 60s | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | the script would ideally return immediately | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | one question, why not read a config rather than a script? | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | you're polling both ways | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, fair enough, you initialize the applet with a config file that has the name of the myapplet.sh script, and the timer milliseconds | 23:55 |
| MohammadAG | no, I meant why not have a config file with the image path | 23:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (read config) you wouldn't know when the applet's asking for new info to display. So you'd have to do another rather fast poll in a daemon, to keep the config up to date | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | oh nvm | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | you want signal strength | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | btw, if this is only for wifi signal strength use qwerty12's applet | 23:56 |
| * javispedro reads backlog | 23:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer | it's better the applet calls some executable code that gathers the info in realtime | 23:57 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: your config file could have a list of files to read() (and potentially block on those reads) | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: nah, it's a generic thing that's zillion times more useful than a hardcoded wifi-signal applet | 23:57 |
| javispedro | (your code would not block on read() but would submit the fds to the glib select() call) | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I don't want to watch files. I want to act on stdout of arbitrary code to execute | 23:58 |
| javispedro | but the problem is when to run that executable then? | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | each time the timer of applet expires | 23:59 |
| javispedro | which would be hardcoded? then there's no problem :D | 23:59 |
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