IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-05-17

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geaaru	hi, how can i turn off keyboard led when i'm on r&d mode? thanks in advance	00:18
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SpeedEvil	Why do you think you want R&D mode?	00:20
geaaru	to see boot menu at startup and choice boot from sd or boot from flash	00:21
geaaru	why with r&d led must be turn on all time ? i don't understand this. :)	00:22
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thopiekar	hi	00:29
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SpeedEvil	Somewhat random. _ages_ ago, I got a BT VOIP box-thing. I still have it. Do BT still do a BOIP solution - SIP - I can't seem to find it on their website, I may be using the wrong keywords.	00:31
thopiekar	wanna buy a N900 on ebay which isn't working (thats what the seller says). he said that he can'T turn it on.. it is just vibrating.. he hasn't said anything about what he can see on the display.. is that fixable via flashing?	00:31
SpeedEvil	It's not impossible it might be.	00:32
SpeedEvil	Could also be hardware fail.	00:32
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Sicelo_	how much is this thopiekar ?	00:38
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thopiekar	SpeedEvil: k	00:38
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: search for 3GN, NGN, or sth like that	00:39
DocScrutinizer51	SIP in disguise	00:39
thopiekar	Sicelo_: in Germany: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150604475408&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:DE:1123#ht_500wt_1156	00:39
thopiekar	I really would like to get one..	00:39
SpeedEvil	hmm	00:40
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thopiekar	I also would like to add software, even console applications from Ubuntu as I did for diablo	00:40
thopiekar	streamripper for example	00:40
thopiekar	and so on..	00:40
Sicelo_	best wishes buddy :)	00:43
Macer	what is that?	00:44
Macer	thopiekar: what is that thing?	00:44
thopiekar	Macer: what? streamripper? a internet radio recorder..	00:45
thopiekar	check sourceforge	00:45
Macer	the ebay page you showed with the n900 lying on a suitcase heh	00:45
thopiekar	:D	00:45
Macer	is the n900 the detonator	00:45
Macer	?	00:45
Macer	it was in ze german??C	00:46
Macer	heh	00:46
Macer	wish i could figure out how to get these su8w special keys to work	00:46
Macer	like the email and menu key. that would be cool	00:46
Macer	maybe later i will capture the codes and see if i can map them to something	00:46
thopiekar	huh? I did get what you mean.. which keys? is something wrong with that device?	00:47
Macer	no... i finally got it working correctly	00:47
Macer	it can even type with the qwerty closed now :) but it has symbian special keys	00:47
Macer	like the email key and the menu key	00:47
Macer	also a left middle and right key... keys that you would normally use on an n95	00:48
Macer	i would love to figure out a way to map the menu key to the actual maemo5 menu	00:48
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Macer	where it would be like tapping the upper left corner	00:49
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thopiekar	has the N900 the application xev?	00:49
thopiekar	it would show you how the button is called that is pressed..	00:49
Macer	don't know.. haven't looked into it much other than getting the mappings right and setting up bt hid on it	00:49
Macer	i'm actually using it right now for irc .. it's great	00:50
Macer	can't wait to just use abiword on my n900 instead of lugging around a laptop	00:50
Macer	i wish there was a full blown openoffice for it... that would be awesome too.. or cups support	00:50
thopiekar	if you know how the key is called you could use xbindkeys to do the trick..	00:50
Macer	if i could print from this thing i would ejaculate	00:50
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Macer	yeah... i will work on that later.. right now i am just happy it works at all and very well i might say	00:51
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thopiekar	lets say getting the menu is a dbus function, you could bind the menu key to the dbus signal	00:51
thopiekar	do it ;)	00:52
Macer	i need to find out how it is called though coming from the keyboard	00:52
Sicelo_	iirc, there's been some kind of success in printing from n900. check tmo	00:52
Macer	lol. i don't even know where to start thopiekar	00:52
Macer	but right now i need to sleep. i work tonight	00:52
thopiekar	if you are lucky and I'll get a N900 you can expect Ill work on such tweaks :P	00:52
Macer	lmao.. are you getting one?	00:52
thopiekar	Macer: see yaaaa	00:52
Macer	they're still pretty expensive	00:52
Macer	i guess supply issues?	00:52
thopiekar	Macer: can't get one for a low price atm	00:53
thopiekar	no money issues	00:53
thopiekar	:D	00:53
Macer	yeah. they are rather expensive but honestly i think they will go up later if meego actually gets going on it	00:53
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thopiekar	sure?	00:53
Macer	which is honestly doubtful that will happen any time soon but wishful thinking	00:53
Macer	i think so.. lots of people might want to suck one up if meego doesn't totally suck	00:54
thopiekar	hopefull not such a wishful thinking like N8x0's will get their §D driver	00:54
thopiekar	*3D	00:54
Macer	how is maemo development lately? i know they released the cssu stuff	00:54
Macer	hahahah	00:54
Macer	yeah that one will never happen either	00:54
Macer	my n810 is just sitting on my desk collecting dust	00:54
Macer	i am going to use it for carman	00:54
thopiekar	I use my N800 for music in my car	00:55
thopiekar	me too	00:55
Macer	i have the obd2 bt transmitter	00:55
Macer	i need the window mount for it :)	00:55
thopiekar	bought for it also a transmitter > 20€ from china	00:55
thopiekar	:D	00:55
thopiekar	got one..	00:55
Macer	mine was around 50	00:55
Macer	i thought the pidgen friend tracking was kind of neat	00:55
Macer	i'm not sure how well carman has been developed lately	00:56
Macer	but it seems like one of the better reasons to have an n810	00:56
thopiekar	carman has many missing features..	00:56
Macer	heh	00:56
Macer	well.. it gives you check engine status	00:56
Macer	which is more than most.. :)	00:56
thopiekar	tested another app for my N95... it was able to read many more values	00:56
Macer	ah was it?	00:57
thopiekar	mom	00:57
Macer	so it is missing sensor information from the obd2 port?	00:57
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thopiekar	ODBscope	00:57
thopiekar	i think	00:57
Macer	there is no carman for n900 is there?	00:58
thopiekar	carman is just using the minimal info from ODB	00:58
thopiekar	there is as far as I know	00:58
DocScrutinizer51	duh, canbus?	00:58
Macer	it gets check engine codes for you	00:58
Macer	doesnt it get a description of the code as well?	00:58
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Macer	canbus?	00:59
thopiekar	carman isn't even checking which data is available.. the app on my N95 checks the data and tells ok can view you the following..	00:59
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DocScrutinizer51	~wiki canbus	00:59
thopiekar	carman can't it just visualizes the data.. and if not available value=0	00:59
thopiekar	stupid app	00:59
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canbus (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Controller–area network' ('CAN' or 'CAN-bus') is a vehicle bus standard designed to allow microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each other within a vehicle without a host computer. CAN is a message-based protocol, designed specifically for automotive applications but now also used in other areas such as industrial automation and medical equipment. Development of the ...	00:59
thopiekar	thats why I'm coding my own OBD system now	01:00
Macer	heh... but carman lets you track your buddy that you are racing down the highway	01:00
thopiekar	a mix of Carman, Canola and Meego IVI	01:00
thopiekar	navit can do it, too	01:00
Macer	navit does obd?	01:01
thopiekar	the menu from Meego IVI and plugin'able UI	01:01
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thopiekar	written in PyQt	01:01
thopiekar	navit can track other people..	01:01
Macer	heh.. that wou.d be good if meego worked	01:02
thopiekar	just need to setup their GPS rfcomm as UDP-Server	01:02
thopiekar	in navit	01:02
Macer	did meego get the gps working?	01:02
Macer	i thought the gps and cams were still a no go	01:02
Macer	as is voice calling	01:02
thopiekar	dunno	01:02
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thopiekar	why it code my own application I'll take care on os-independency.. it should work at the end on every os.. windows, linux and hopefully mac but haven'T got one so can't check	01:03
thopiekar	:P	01:03
Macer	heh	01:04
thopiekar	k, need to get some sleep as well, Macer	01:04
thopiekar	see you soon	01:04
Macer	night	01:04
thopiekar	it's 00:04 here	01:04
DocScrutinizer51	voice calling on SHR is almost working	01:05
DocScrutinizer51	partially working actually	01:05
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SpeedEvil	:)	01:09
DocScrutinizer51	and they're implementing my alsa based PA killer \o/	01:11
SpeedEvil	Woo!	01:12
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merlin1991	"PA killer" ?	01:13
DocScrutinizer51	the living proof ALSA is better than PA	01:13
* merlin1991 realizes PA is pulseaudio		01:14
DocScrutinizer51	pukeaudio	01:15
merlin1991	:D	01:15
DocScrutinizer51	or polypaudio (no kidding)	01:15
merlin1991	I don't know much about pa vs alsa, only that everyone seems to be bashing pa, but what's the actuall drawback of pa, the system itself or the implementation?	01:16
DocScrutinizer51	the idea why it's done, how it's done, and who done it	01:17
DocScrutinizer51	a typical NIH thing	01:18
merlin1991	~nih	01:18
infobot	nih is, like, \"Not Invented Here\" - a syndrome often suffered by developers and companies who tend to reinvent the wheel for no reason other than being able to put their name on it.	01:18
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DocScrutinizer51	PA claimed to be the inevitable improvement on ALSA, doing everything better. In fact they attributed problems to ALSA that were never existing, caused by pebkac, or simple to fix. Then their friggin implementation had exactly the problems they attributed to ALSA, just worse. Plus they shoved that shit down everybody's throat and en passant broke working ALSA systems by not providing a properly workng compatibility layer	01:27
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DocScrutinizer51	but the worst been the spreading of lies about ALSA - like 'alsa doesn't support per-app volume', 'alsa has no mixing' and similar BS	01:31
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DocScrutinizer51	in fact probably ALSA is more versatile than PA even today, and one thing's evident: PA still needs ALSA to work at all, while ALSA doesn't need PA for anyrhing (except audio over ethernet)	01:36
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rdvonz	Probably not the right place to ask this, but I just dug up my old n810 out of my drawer. Of course its taken apart (because the charger wasn't working) and the back side of the device is nowhere to be found! Anyways, my question is this: does anyone have a spare n810 they would mind selling for parts?	01:59
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* DocScrutinizer should send Lennart Poettering a copy of the nice Openmoko lis302dl.ko driver source. Best with GPL and (C) removed. Sure bet for getting it into linus kernel after 3 months, and kick out the braindead lis3lv02.ko joystick driver		02:27
DocScrutinizer	but, wait... Lennart never hyped and pushed anything tha looked nice. So probably that plan will fail epically	02:28
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merlin1991	meet DocScrutinizer the seasoned zynic ;)	02:31
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DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: I tuned my ALSA for like 6 years to get an absolutely charming system working with concurrent audio, no latency, excellent quality and compatible to all apps no matter whether OSS, ARTS, ALSA... Then came PukeAudio and all distros' audio subsystem got fscj	02:47
DocScrutinizer	ked	02:47
DocScrutinizer	what do you think I feel about PA and Lennart	02:48
merlin1991	love him like your son?	02:48
DocScrutinizer	yeah	02:48
DocScrutinizer	exactly	02:48
merlin1991	btw I didn't get oss apps to run properly on a crappy soundcard on pretty basic ubuntu	02:49
merlin1991	unless I used preload hacks to load alsa symbols into them :P	02:49
DocScrutinizer	no wonder, buntkuh is using PA	02:49
DocScrutinizer	did I mention PA doesn't care about working bugfree compatibility layers?	02:49
DocScrutinizer	you should feel happy the buntkuh PA crap was gracious enough to let your app work with ALSA-OSS compatibility layer	02:51
merlin1991	wasn't alsa-oss	02:52
merlin1991	actual ld_preload to replace oss calls with alsa calls in the app binarly	02:52
merlin1991	binary	02:52
DocScrutinizer	duh? no ld_preload aoss ?	02:52
merlin1991	for some reason even that didn't work :P	02:53
DocScrutinizer	aoss works usually flawlessly, on ALSA machines	02:53
DocScrutinizer	well, replacing oss by alsa janus stubs via ld_preload is exactly what aoss is doing	02:54
merlin1991	the aoss stuff shipped with ubuntu didn't work	02:54
merlin1991	then again, ubuntu :P	02:54
DocScrutinizer	LD_P LD_PRELOAD=${exec_prefix}/\$LIB/libaoss.so${LD_PRELOAD:+:$LD_PRELOAD} exec "$@"RELOAD=${exec_prefix}/\$LIB/libaoss.so${LD_PRELOAD:+:$LD_PRELOAD} exec "$@"	02:55
DocScrutinizer	ooops	02:55
DocScrutinizer	LD_PRELOAD=${exec_prefix}/\$LIB/libaoss.so${LD_PRELOAD:+:$LD_PRELOAD} exec "$@"	02:55
DocScrutinizer	cat /usr/bin/aoss	02:56
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DocScrutinizer	libaoss.so does exactly that - provide open(), close(), read(), write() and intercept access to /dev/dsp and convert it to genuine ALSA calls	02:57
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DocScrutinizer	the same shit shipped with PA for converting ALSA calls to PA doesn't work at all, and Lennart doesn't care (actually he can not fix it, as ALSA is way more versatile than PA, so some more exotic calls to ALSA can't get maped to PA API)	02:59
DocScrutinizer	so now users bitch and whine at all devels of formerly perfectly working (with ALSA) audio apps, to get PA support into those apps as the ALSA interface ceased to work with contemporary PA based distros	03:01
merlin1991	is debian pa based?	03:02
DocScrutinizer	nfc	03:02
DocScrutinizer	judging by maemo, I'd say yes	03:02
DocScrutinizer	not even Nokia is mad enough to opt in deliberately for PA, esp on an embedded device	03:03
SpeedEvil	I question that.	03:06
SpeedEvil	The software in sseveral aspects doens't seem to have been designed taking an embedded perspective.	03:06
DocScrutinizer	I'm already asking "who said that?"	03:06
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: that's quite obvious. The question is why we got it on maemo nevertheless	03:07
* DocScrutinizer wonders what it is that Lennart got to convince everybody to adopt his BS. Sexy? mountains of money to bribe? Brutal? Just unbearable for longer than 5 min? yeah that's it :-P		03:09
DocScrutinizer	I watched a livestream of CCC last xmas, with ~180s of Lennart. I'm sure it's been tha last point that allowed him to push PA into every distro he found	03:11
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mer_ge	my firefox 4.0 doesn't update to 4.0.1 automatically. I use http://moff.mozilla.com/latest-beta/maemo/multi/dists/fremantle/release/binary-armel/	03:12
mer_ge	what's the right way to install firefox from the latest-beta repo?	03:13
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megomaniak	who in here still has the n900?	04:01
SpeedEvil	Me.	04:01
megomaniak	why?	04:01
SpeedEvil	The vast majority of peeps here I imagine.	04:01
SpeedEvil	megomaniak: Because it's basically the only openish linux phone.	04:01
megomaniak	why is that important?	04:02
SpeedEvil	Also, because I bought one, and it's not died yet, and I like it.	04:02
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SpeedEvil	Because I find it useful to me to be able to do some things that are tricky with other phones.	04:02
megomaniak	i bought mine in Dec 2009 and the usb on broke	04:02
SpeedEvil	Where are you?	04:03
megomaniak	right now UK	04:03
SpeedEvil	If it was bought in the EU, it's still under warranty.	04:03
* ShadowJK has two, pessimistic about any other usable phones arriving anytime soon		04:03
SpeedEvil	And you can ebay it once fixed if you don't want it.	04:03
cehteh	what other phone can run emacs? :)	04:03
megomaniak	i called nokia and they basically told me to f-off	04:04
SpeedEvil	megomaniak: Where was the phone bought?	04:04
megomaniak	USofA	04:04
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SpeedEvil	Ah - US warranty sucks. :/	04:04
megomaniak	SpeedEvil - yes it does	04:04
megomaniak	is the maemo OS dead?	04:05
DocScrutinizer	well, seems SpeedEvil , ShadowJK and me all have 2	04:05
ShadowJK	In the US, retail stores and chains prefers shorter manufacturer warranties. They make lots of money on selling overpriced insurance, and there's no consumer protection laws regarding expected lifetimes	04:05
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SpeedEvil	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Black-Mobile-Phone-32GB-Smartphone-Faulty-/260778280475?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item3cb798c61b	04:06
SpeedEvil	For example.	04:06
megomaniak	i see	04:06
SpeedEvil	megomaniak: Maemo is dead - long-live meego. Sort-of.	04:06
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infobot	msg from chanop: pupnik, please stay on topic and DO NOT INSULT OR GO XXX, this isn't #politics and (usually) a worksafe chan	04:06
pupnik	morning	04:07
ShadowJK	lol	04:07
megomaniak	yeah but meego is POS	04:07
megomaniak	no?	04:07
megomaniak	nobody interested in it	04:07
SpeedEvil	There has been no(?) meego device.	04:07
SpeedEvil	Nokia has committed to releasing one meego device.	04:07
megomaniak	i heard today that LG device is POS	04:07
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pupnik	it will be hard for meego to win me over	04:11
DocScrutinizer	so maybe give SHR a try eventually, they just finish call voice audio	04:11
SpeedEvil	SHR would be good.	04:12
DocScrutinizer	hehe, I bitched enough there	04:12
* ShadowJK wonders where they're at with Nokia's "MeeGo-related device", is LF going to let them call it MeeGo?		04:12
SpeedEvil	Who knows.	04:13
DocScrutinizer	heard rumours of giveaway develdevs on next event	04:13
ShadowJK	What does SHR consist of?	04:14
DocScrutinizer	might be about time, esp since they got no proper schematics review from a professional skeptic scrutinizer	04:15
DocScrutinizer	err	04:15
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: how to answer that?	04:16
pupnik	This is the Central Scrutinizer... It is my job to enforce the laws that haven't been passed yet.	04:17
DocScrutinizer	the white zone is for loading and unloading only	04:17
* ShadowJK also heard that rumour that devel devices can't interoperate with Ovi^WNokia Store and other services, and if you do anything remotely interesting straying outside the straighjacket/sandbox your device gets permanently "downgraded" to devel device		04:18
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, X, no X, gtk/something else, etx	04:19
ShadowJK	etc	04:19
DocScrutinizer	E, X, FSO, up-to-date kernel	04:19
pupnik	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe's_Garage never realized it had so much background to it	04:20
ShadowJK	E? :-)	04:20
DocScrutinizer	enlightenment, edjie, e* whatever	04:21
ShadowJK	yeah it just surprised me	04:21
ShadowJK	tbh I haven't seen enlightenment since 1999 and my P133 32M ram. It was kinda sluggish	04:22
ShadowJK	and excessively pretty	04:22
DocScrutinizer	well, there has to be a reason Raster was our chief "desktop" developer at OM	04:22
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ShadowJK	he was?	04:24
DocScrutinizer	sure	04:24
DocScrutinizer	was a funny time when we were both at TPE	04:25
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Macer	enlightenment was pretty good back in the day	04:28
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DocScrutinizer	it's not getting worse :-D	04:31
DocScrutinizer	a bit dusty, but still... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI&feature=related	04:32
pupnik	"it looks just like a telefunken u-47"	04:33
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ShadowJK	back then all the cool kids used E	04:34
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SpeedEvil	Nowadays E is not E, it's been replaced with much nastier drugs, with much worse side-effects.	04:35
SpeedEvil	(though I've not done E)	04:35
ShadowJK	and enlightenment	04:35
* ShadowJK drank coke and ran AfterStep		04:35
pupnik	nice choice	04:36
ShadowJK	:P	04:36
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pupnik	it was so fun to read linux magazin back then	04:37
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pupnik	i was giddy that i could buy it at the gas station	04:38
DocScrutinizer	back in my time Byte was the only magazine you could find in Germany, wit a lot of luck, on the main railway station	04:39
DocScrutinizer	then a new epoch started when I spotted the first c't mag there, right next to Byte	04:40
merlin1991	when did ix come along?	04:41
DocScrutinizer	omg, laaaater	04:41
Kilroo	Compute's Gazette	04:41
DocScrutinizer	bbl	04:42
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/16/mono_founders_launch_new_company/ <-- hehe can't keep a zombie down...	08:23
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* RST38h still wants an ability to ignore people on tmo, after all that time		08:46
RST38h	abill_uk is a serious source of background noise	08:46
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RST38h	"Fabrice Bellard, the initiator of the QEMU emulator, wrote a PC emulator in JavaScript. You can now boot Linux in your browser, provided it is recent enough." -- eek	08:52
robbiethe1st	Heh. We'll have Linux taking over everywhere /except/ the desktop.	08:53
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RST38h	"No segment limit and right checks when accessing memory (Linux does not rely on them for memory protection, so it is not an issue. The x86 emulator of QEMU has the same restriction)."	08:55
* RST38h laughs satanically, whispers "wimp!"		08:55
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infobot	msg from chanop: pupnik, please stay on topic and DO NOT INSULT OR GO XXX, this isn't #politics and (usually) a worksafe chan	09:30
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mensoif	Hi, I have a proble with my n900.	10:10
mensoif	When someone calls me, I often hang up, just by taking my phone out of it's case	10:10
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mensoif	is there a settings that does not unlock the screen when in the case (usin the light sensor)	10:12
mensoif	or a similar workaround? If I have to unlock the phone manually each time, it's not a big issue for me.	10:13
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slonopotamus	mensoif: updated to latest maemo release? it improved situation a bit	10:15
mensoif	yes, I even use CSSU	10:16
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geaaru	hi, is there a way to turn off keyboard led when r&d mode is enable? thanks in advance	10:16
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cityLights	haha I got a working program with a UI!	10:19
cityLights	YES	10:19
cityLights	so happy, now need to package it	10:19
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chem\|st	re	11:00
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Coke	Is someone here kind enough to check this out http://lohmanders.se/test/index.sv.html and tell me if the GIF at the bottom right is displayed properly.	11:19
ruskie	any specific browser you would like to have it tested?	11:21
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Coke	ruskie: the default one on N900	11:22
ruskie	ahh nope... won't be trying to get that url there...	11:23
Coke	ruskie: I've already concluded that it has some severe bugs, failing on SVG rendering so now I'm checking if the GIF works	11:23
Coke	In my browser the GIF is cut off.	11:23
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Coke	Making the default N900 browser even more broken than IE7	11:23
Coke	(which is quiet a feat in itself)	11:23
ruskie	you sure it's broken?	11:24
Coke	the only other person I know (who has access to an N900) isn't using it anymore so no batts and no charger.	11:24
Coke	ruskie: 99%	11:24
Coke	ruskie: the rendering behavior is irratic and makes no sense.	11:24
ruskie	'erratic' and it works just fine here	11:25
Coke	ruskie: it does?	11:25
ruskie	yup	11:25
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Coke	you see the full round red gif?	11:26
ruskie	yup	11:26
Coke	what version of the built-in browser do you use?	11:26
ruskie	I opened the page in vimprobable2 as well on my desktop	11:26
ruskie	the page looks the same with to diffs	11:26
Coke	i dont know what vimprobable2 is, I'm talking about the default browser in N900	11:26
ruskie	yes as am I	11:26
Coke	how do I find out what version my browser is?	11:27
ruskie	2.9.5-1.23+0m5	11:27
ruskie	dpkg -l \| grep microb	11:28
ruskie	is what I used	11:28
Coke	argh	11:28
Coke	i have no pipe char on this keyboard	11:28
ruskie	20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5 <-- for the microb-engine	11:28
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Coke	ok I have to go through a monster list of installed packages to find it	11:29
ruskie	you don't	11:29
ruskie	since you can get the pipe symbol iirc	11:29
Coke	ok the package is named microb-engine	11:29
Coke	20100401-1.9.2	11:30
ruskie	20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5	11:30
Coke	nothing +-5.2+0m5	11:30
Coke	where did you get it?	11:30
ruskie	maybe it just got cut off for you since it was a full list	11:30
ruskie	formating and what not...	11:30
ruskie	btw you can get the pipe symbol from the special symbols virtual keyboard	11:31
ruskie	fun+sym key	11:31
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Coke	oh great, bash history still doesnt save??	11:32
ruskie	wouldn't know	11:32
ruskie	I use zsh	11:32
Coke	I'm a bash user	11:33
Coke	it has worked for me since early 90's on every platform, even Windows. maemo is the first platform I don't have proper hsitory in bash	11:33
Coke	apt-get says ive got the latest microb when I try to update it	11:34
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ruskie	try dpkg -l \| grep microb	11:34
Coke	the GIF is cut off in my browser	11:34
Coke	fun+sym doesnt do anything	11:35
ruskie	erm...	11:35
Coke	(the blue arrow up/right and Sym/ctrl keys)	11:35
ruskie	yup	11:35
Coke	nada	11:35
ruskie	that should display a symbol selection virtual keyboard	11:35
Coke	it doesn't.	11:36
ruskie	atleast when in a terminal or app	11:36
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Coke	im in the x terminal	11:36
robbiethe1st	Press alt(blue arrow), release it, then ctrl.	11:36
Coke	that worked	11:36
Coke	similarly, is there a way to drop out from fullscreen?	11:37
ruskie	bottom right	11:37
Coke	ruskie: yep, same version number as you have	11:37
ruskie	should be an up arrow thingy or something	11:37
Coke	up arrow?	11:38
Coke	20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5	11:38
ruskie	on the display	11:38
ruskie	for fullscreen	11:38
Coke	no i meant, sometimes apps take over the phone	11:38
Coke	i cant get out of the app	11:38
ruskie	ctrl+backspace	11:38
ruskie	will get you to the app switcher	11:39
Coke	tapping or simultaneously?	11:39
ruskie	simult	11:39
Coke	ok	11:39
Coke	yes.	11:39
Coke	so... my browser seems to be completely bonkers	11:39
ruskie	btw how is it cut off? bottom or right or both???	11:40
Coke	I've confirmed it to work on FF4, FF3.5, Midori, Safari, iphone, android, IE9 and your N900	11:40
ruskie	note I don't have flash so if there is any flash content on the site it might cause issues as well	11:40
Coke	no flash	11:41
Coke	except for the GIF I'm using only standards	11:41
ruskie	hmm	11:41
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Coke	which sucks bigtime, because the ONLY browser in the world to actually support the standards is Firefox	11:41
ruskie	opera as well iirc	11:41
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Coke	ah, havent tried opera	11:41
Coke	whaddya know. it even has support for SVG smil	11:41
ruskie	the webkit stuff ought to work as well for the most part...	11:41
Coke	So add opera to that list	11:42
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chx		11:43
Coke	ruskie: yeah, i thought that about gecko too, but obviously it doesnt in whatever microb is	11:43
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ruskie	microb is gecko	11:43
Coke	can't be	11:43
ruskie	it is	11:43
Coke	so why isn't it rendering properly?	11:44
ruskie	20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5 <-- the version itself is a hint here: 1.9.2 xulrunner version	11:44
ruskie	maybe something is badly configured on your device? maybe some extension for it?	11:44
Coke	you mean browser extensinos?	11:45
ruskie	yup	11:45
ruskie	using wifi or 3g?	11:45
Coke	wifi	11:45
Coke	and 3g	11:45
Coke	right now its in wifi mode	11:45
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ruskie	well with 3g I would assume some cellco proxy somewhere in between mangling crap for no good reason	11:46
Coke	I have Flashblock installed	11:46
ruskie	that could be an issue	11:46
ruskie	or adblock	11:46
Coke	uh, but theres no flash on my page	11:46
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Coke	not using adblock	11:46
Coke	besides flashblock i have disabled single sign on and geo location	11:46
ruskie	same here	11:46
ruskie	but I don't run flashblock	11:47
ruskie	simply don't have flash at all	11:47
Coke	ok, uninstalling flashblock	11:47
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ruskie	extensions can have adverse effects on rendering	11:47
ruskie	since they hook into there	11:47
Coke	Wow.	11:47
Coke	You were absolutely right.	11:48
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Coke	Why the heck would Flashblock even be activated on a page completely void of flash?	11:48
ruskie	it needs to be active to detect if there is anything flashy on the page	11:48
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Coke	ruskie: but after detecting nothing, why bother telling the browser how and what to render?	11:48
Coke	anyway, thanks a lot ruskie	11:49
ruskie	that could be a bug or by design	11:49
Coke	i dont think I would have ever thought that flashblock would mess up GIFs	11:49
ruskie	or it could do stuff with gifs just because it can	11:49
Coke	but why cut the top 1/3 off?	11:49
Coke	makes no sense	11:49
Coke	Im pretty sure this is indeed a bug in flashblock.	11:49
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ruskie	personally prefered method to get rid of flash is to just remove it	11:50
Coke	ruskie: mm. I'll consider that.	11:50
ruskie	I haven't found any sites that I need flash for frankly	11:50
Coke	ruskie: I'm an avid youtuber	11:50
ruskie	youtube-dl for watching youtube stuff	11:50
Coke	altho I dont use my phone for anything except a terminal	11:50
Coke	I found that the mail client is suboptimal and the phone is just to laggy and slow for me to feel productive with it.	11:51
Coke	The worst part is: I can't get rid of it. It's the ONLY phone that can do X forwarding which is why I use it for work	11:51
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ruskie	I just download a pile of youtube stuff using youtube-dl and then watch it when I have time without bothring about a connection etc...	11:51
Coke	Once this phone breaks I'll be sent back to 1995, no cellphone	11:51
ruskie	for me every mail client outside of alpine is suboptimal	11:51
Coke	ruskie: Im a mutt fan	11:52
ruskie	but ssh helps there to connect to my server	11:52
ruskie	as for phone... I'm planing on getting a second n900... but when those breaks... I want a simple s40 device for calls	11:52
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Coke	s40?	11:53
ruskie	s40... yeah nokia s40	11:53
Coke	Ah, that one. Yes, there's no phone on the market right now that can actually replace a N900	11:53
ruskie	I doubt there will ever be one	11:53
Coke	why is the industry and consumers so phukking retarded?	11:53
Coke	I don't really care that the animations and menus are slow on my N900, at the end of the day it's a very small laptop on which I can do everything from writing budget reports to accessing our production system	11:54
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Coke	ruskie: how can S40 replace N900? It's a shitty symbian.	11:55
Coke	Symbian and Winmo are by far the worst creations I have ever had the misfortune of ever having in my target platform list.	11:55
Sicelo_	s40 is not symbian	11:56
ruskie	Coke, the thing is I don't need a fancy smartphone	11:56
ruskie	for phone I'm happy with a 10 year+ nokia 5110 funcitonality	11:56
Coke	I see.	11:57
Coke	S60 is the symbian based one	11:57
ruskie	yup	11:57
Coke	ruskie: i dont need a smartphone either, but pretty soon thats all youll be able to get	11:57
Sicelo_	and series 80 & 90, long extinct :P:P	11:57
Coke	ive got one of them really old ericsons at home	11:57
Coke	it nwo has an uptime of some 700 days	11:57
Coke	THAT is the type of quality I expect from software. If it means reducing the number of features, than so be it	11:58
ruskie	I have a bunch of old phones	11:58
ruskie	5110, 3210, 5140i, n95	11:59
Coke	Tbh, I only use my phone as a small laptop. The only time and place its used as a phone is in the office	11:59
chx	Series 80????	11:59
Coke	I wonder if Intel will ever release morestown	11:59
chx	wow	11:59
ruskie	Coke, I hardly use my n900 other than when I'm not @home or @work	12:00
Coke	ruskie: I use it as a remote control to my media station at home	12:00
ruskie	ahh	12:00
ruskie	I'd get n8xx for that	12:01
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Coke	what is n8xx ?	12:01
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ruskie	n800 or n810	12:02
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Coke	ruskie: they can do remote X over SSH too?	12:02
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ruskie	others will have to answer that but I thought they had proper X	12:03
ruskie	afk lunch	12:03
Coke	Might be an alternative.	12:03
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Sicelo_	yup Coke, nokia 9500 and it's brothers were series 80. 7710 was only series 90	12:04
* Sicelo_ still uses 9300i series 80 nokia, hoping to get n900 soon		12:05
RST38h	"An Israeli couple inspired by the spawn of Zuckerberg have dubbed their unfortunate daughter "Like", the BBC reports."	12:07
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crashanddie	In other news, the BBC reports that people are still stupid. No cure has been found, other than education; even though this has proven a failure in the past already.	12:22
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ruskie	education does not unstupify people	12:23
Macer	heh	12:24
Macer	sure doesn't	12:24
Macer	i have seen some pretty stupid smart people out there	12:24
ruskie	education has more to do with knowledge	12:24
chx	not. quite.	12:24
khertan	Morning	12:24
Macer	ruskie: education also aids in social interaction	12:24
chx	good education esp at a university has more to do with teaching you how to learn	12:24
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crashanddie	Education teaches you to think. Intelligence just makes your thinking process faster, or allows you to see links others might not make immediately.	12:25
ruskie	glad you come from a place where that is true	12:25
Macer	chx: i always figured early education did that	12:25
chx	it's called 'university' because it gives you universal knowledge, a certain... attitude i could say?	12:25
Macer	college seemed more like spitting out something someone said about something	12:25
ruskie	I still don't see how craming a bunch of books into my head and then promptly forgetting them after the exam gives me anything	12:26
chx	it matters less than you'd think whether you get that by studying archeology or programming	12:26
Macer	while having notes on where they said it	12:26
Macer	heh	12:26
RST38h	last ab	12:26
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chem\|st	Coke: for your notice... I tried that svg lately in firefox on windows and got to know that it converts it to png instantly	12:29
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Coke	chem\|st: really? i had it working in my ff on win	12:29
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chem\|st	and your gif is showing fine on microb	12:30
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Coke	chem\|st: yeah it was an addon for blocking Flash	12:30
Coke	chem\|st: it was buggy	12:30
Macer	maemo ftw	12:30
Coke	chem\|st: anyway, SVG's work just fine in FF on windows	12:30
Coke	chem\|st: if it doesnt for you, I recommend you upgrade to 3.6 or newer	12:31
chem\|st	ff on maemo shows too	12:31
Macer	i don't care how old and outdated it gets.. it works with my bt keyboard :)	12:31
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chem\|st	Coke: 4.x	12:31
Macer	there's ff for maemo?	12:31
chem\|st	Macer: yes	12:31
Coke	chem\|st: "shows too" == ?	12:31
Coke	shows the SVG with SMIL animations?	12:31
Macer	it isn't that mobile one that meego is using is it?	12:31
chem\|st	gif in ff on maemo	12:31
Macer	i can't remember what it is called	12:31
chem\|st	not cut or anything	12:31
Macer	it was horrible	12:31
Coke	chem\|st: that is probably because it's SVG animation is disabled, just like on microb	12:32
chem\|st	Macer: it is the fennec	12:32
Macer	yeah	12:32
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Coke	chem\|st: but FF on windows shouldn't have SVG SMIL disabled.	12:32
Macer	fennec was sooo bad	12:32
Macer	why can't someone make a chromium for maemo :) ?	12:32
chem\|st	and the damn sync plugin isnt working since the last upgrade	12:32
Coke	chem\|st: perhaps you forgot to build it with smil support	12:32
Macer	tear is webkit right?	12:32
Coke	Macer: why not just have a proper FF build??	12:32
Macer	meh. webkit is only half of it	12:32
Macer	Coke: because ff is total bloatware	12:32
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Macer	it is the non ms alternative to ie	12:33
chem\|st	Coke: as I build anything for windows O_o	12:33
Coke	chem\|st: well, FF 3.6 and newer do work fine with animations on windows	12:33
Coke	chem\|st: so you must have DL'ed a crippled version or maybe not hit refresh? :)	12:33
Coke	I'm looking at a 3.5, it works too	12:34
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chem\|st	as I said it converts "your" svg to png (didn't check others)	12:34
Coke	chem\|st: it shouldn't convert anything	12:34
chem\|st	Coke: I gave it the direct link to the svg	12:35
Coke	http://lohmanders.se/test/images/decor/comp_animation.sv.svg	12:35
chem\|st	exactly	12:35
Coke	chem\|st: I don't know what to say. I've tried every FF I have for Windows 7, all work fine with SVG's	12:35
Coke	you must have some extension, plugin or setting that disables interactive SVG	12:35
chem\|st	I am on xp maybe thats the difference	12:35
Coke	Macer: http://lohmanders.se/test/images/decor/comp_animation.sv.svg	12:35
Coke	chem\|st: worked fine on XP too last time I checked.	12:36
Coke	chem\|st: besides, why would Mozilla upstream disable animation events for the XP build explicitly?	12:36
Coke	Macer: http://lohmanders.se/test/images/decor/comp_animation.sv.svg	12:36
Coke	Macer: does chromium load and animate this SVG properly?	12:36
chem\|st	on 3.6.17 I get that file info data:image/png;base64...	12:37
Coke	Gecko and Webkit both support it.	12:37
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Coke	chem\|st: you have some messed up setting.	12:37
Coke	It's either a GIF or an SVG. If it's converted to PNG it's something local to your browser.	12:38
piggz	hmmm, thats new...my rootfs is full /	12:38
piggz	:/	12:38
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chem\|st	piggz: that's new?	12:39
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piggz	chem\|st: its never been full before, and im in a catch-22 situation, i cant uninstall anything, becuase i need to run dpkg --configure -a first, which cant becuase the filesystem is full	12:40
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chem\|st	piggz: just move one of the bigger files away like localizations stuff	12:42
chem\|st	piggz: don't forget to symlink!	12:42
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piggz	chem\|st: where are they kept?	12:43
piggz	/usr/share?	12:43
chem\|st	one sec	12:44
piggz	/usr/share/locale is 15mb	12:44
piggz	that should do	12:44
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chem\|st	there was "one" file about 24MB somewhere...	12:46
SpeedEvil	find / -mount -size +1000000	12:46
chem\|st	piggz: /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive	12:49
chem\|st	~20MB	12:50
piggz	chem\|st: ta	12:50
piggz	chem\|st: i found the culprit...i had installed libqtm-11-* .... which included all the -dbg packages :)	12:52
piggz	now have 65mb free on /	12:52
chem\|st	ouch	12:52
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chem\|st	~facepalm	13:04
* infobot facepalms at the situation		13:04
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chem\|st	now I see an animated graphics on his site... it is 4 pngs in a svg container	13:05
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auenf	4 png's in a svg container sounds like a poor mans mng	13:08
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piggz	hmmm, why does the N900_PORTRAIT_SENSORS hack not seem to work	13:09
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chem\|st	auenf: he is already considered "noob"	13:11
chem\|st	and spirit is again messing up! the whole device gets unresponsive when logged on to skype	13:11
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pupnik	RST38h: jim rogers named his daughter 'happy'	13:17
piggz	is anyone familiar with the N900_PORTRAIT_SENSORS hack ?	13:19
piggz	sorry, wrong chanel	13:19
piggz	meant to be #qt :)	13:19
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cehteh	http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/17/0242244/Boot-Linux-In-Your-Browser ... works in fennec! :P	13:33
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robbiethe1st	Hm... can we boot Linux inside of Linux booted inside of Linux inside our browser>	13:37
cehteh	not yet :P	13:37
cehteh	the emulator has only serial console output (connected to a terminal in the browser)	13:38
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cehteh	well links2 once had a javascript engine .. but they removed it because it was too buggy	13:38
SpeedEvil	Fabrice Bellard is _so_ awesome.	13:38
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cehteh	if someone get a browser with javascript working on that :)	13:39
robbiethe1st	Now, if only it worked in Firefox... I get "Invalid arguement on line 9"	13:42
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pupnik	why SpeedEvil	13:43
pupnik	oh nm	13:43
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ruskie	http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/17/0242244/Boot-Linux-In-Your-Browser	13:53
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Venemo	good afternoon guys	13:57
pupnik	hi	13:57
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MohammadAG	hmm	14:04
MohammadAG	my LED is blinking red	14:04
MohammadAG	(PatternError)	14:04
Venemo	MohammadAG, that is the 'error' pattern by default	14:04
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chem\|st	never got this apart from camera "on"	14:05
MohammadAG	yes, I know, but why	14:05
chem\|st	syslog?	14:05
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MohammadAG	what's [46218.779052] in normal time formats?	14:06
MohammadAG	chem\|st, that's a steady red, not blinking	14:06
MohammadAG	meh	14:07
MohammadAG	I was browsing repos yesterday and installed lowbatled	14:07
MohammadAG	of all patterns, it uses the error one to indicate battery low	14:08
Venemo	heheheh	14:08
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chem\|st	lol	14:14
lcuk	MohammadAG, that is seconds from bootup isn't it?	14:16
chem\|st	is sipwitch integrating with the phone software or standalone?	14:16
chem\|st	how do I reset my battery to proper readings?	14:18
MohammadAG	lcuk, no idea, SpeedEvil mentioned something about kernel times last week iirc	14:19
chem\|st	it sais 19 cycles since learning but CI is still 1	14:19
MohammadAG	though I can't seem to remember that	14:19
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ShadowJK	With bme: run from fully charged until shutdown. 4 times. With luck, it'll work.	14:20
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chem\|st	is there anything to replace that piece of sh\|t yet?	14:22
ShadowJK	Without bme: run from fully charged running "./bq27200.sh 5" constantly until EDV1 column becomes 1. Careful, there's only a minute or so between EDV1 and hard shutdown, which is extremely risky and might damage or corrupt the emmc, onenand and microsd.	14:23
ruskie	yay use more battery to report that the battery is low ;)	14:23
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ShadowJK	Repeat 3 times or so	14:24
ruskie	gah I hate when I'm scrolled up	14:24
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pupnik	http://i.imgur.com/Pw136.gif you might know this pic ... i found the source .. enjoy (ntsfw)	14:33
Corsac	pupnik...	14:34
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pupnik	ever research computer graphics Corsac	14:35
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Corsac	pupnik: I think everyone knowing Lenna knows the source	14:36
pupnik	i didn't	14:36
pupnik	http://imgur.com/gallery/BkdrN nice aquarium	14:36
* merlin1991 didn't either		14:36
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pupnik	What British people say vs what the rest of the world hears http://imgur.com/gallery/lHPEn	14:38
merlin1991	lmao	14:39
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ruskie	pupnik, well my vocab apparently is closer to british than rest of the world	14:40
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pupnik	funny to me how out of balance the picture looks when the crop is different	14:42
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chem\|st	finally someone made use of it... http://imgur.com/gallery/wD3cT	14:53
vldcnst	chem\|st: indeed, excellent	14:55
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Macer	hm. is there a way to print directly in maemo?	14:57
Macer	i think the limitation would be abiword wouldn't it?	14:57
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Macer	i could do it from easydeb but that would be lame :)	14:59
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BCMM	Macer: there's an app in extras that prints	15:00
Macer	really? which one?	15:00
BCMM	Macer: it works by ssh'ing to a machine with a CUPS server though	15:01
Macer	oh	15:01
BCMM	did you want to use a USB printer with HEN?	15:01
Macer	i guess that would be kind of cool too	15:01
Macer	no ... networked printer	15:01
Macer	but the printer is independent	15:01
Macer	i doubt it has a way to ssh to it :)	15:01
Macer	although i suppose i can set up cups on something in order to do it	15:01
BCMM	yeah, you'd need to run a cups server somewhere	15:02
BCMM	assuming there is a cups driver for it	15:02
Macer	there is for the printer. i'm using kde to print to it	15:02
Macer	it's an older brother hl	15:02
Macer	awesome printer for how much i paid for it when it was new :) only b/w but that's all i really need	15:02
DocScrutinizer	I seen cups for fremantle	15:02
Macer	DocScrutinizer: well in 2025 when meego for n900 is done maybe i'll try it :)	15:03
Macer	although i do believe i'll look into the ssh printing option. not sure how it works tho.. a ps converter then send it to an ssh tunnel to the cups server?	15:04
Macer	that would actually be kind of cool to print while on the road and come home and grab what i printed :)	15:04
Macer	and a little safer than opening an unprotected cups port on the router	15:05
DocScrutinizer	Macer: haha .oO(???)	15:05
Macer	huh?	15:05
Macer	i'm a firm oo user :) abiword is great tho for a portable word processor	15:05
Macer	i used it last night to make a whole report using my su8w that i finally got working flawlessly	15:06
Macer	it's like a laptop in the pocket.. it's wonderful. if it could print on its own then it would be perfect	15:06
Macer	i actually don't care that maemo won't ever get updated anymore.. maybe there are still a few devs out there that will support it since it is rather n900 specific	15:07
Macer	i don't really see the kernel needing anything more .. the hardware works :)	15:07
DocScrutinizer	there IS CUPS for maemo!!!	15:07
Macer	oh yeah?	15:07
DocScrutinizer	so WTF shouldn't it be able to print like a laptop?	15:07
Venemo	sure, I have a cup too, although I couldn't say for certain that it is "for maemo".	15:08
Macer	DocScrutinizer: well.. for one.. i don't think there are any good apps that have a printing option or have been built against cups	15:08
Macer	at least abiword doesn't which is probably the only word processor worth using	15:08
Macer	nor gnumeric which seems to be the only good spreadsheet app worth using	15:08
Macer	if the ssh printing/cups option works by choosing a file to print that will work :)	15:09
Macer	but right now i have to finish proofing the report i did last night so i don't have time to tinker.. i'm happy enough that my su8w is working. i haven't used my G2 in 2 days haha	15:10
Macer	n900 ftw	15:10
Macer	it just found new life	15:10
Macer	to think i was about to ebay it too :)	15:10
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DocScrutinizer	apt-cache show cups-bsd - fool	15:19
merlin1991	Macer: abiword has 3 missing images for me :D	15:20
merlin1991	in the main ui the ones for bold / underlined / italic	15:21
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DocScrutinizer	>>.. has its own filtering driver model for handling various document types.<< >>This package provides the BSD commands for interacting with CUPS.<<	15:21
Venemo	why BSD?	15:22
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DocScrutinizer	legacy?	15:23
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DocScrutinizer	e.g. because OSX is also based on BSD?	15:24
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Venemo	wtf cares about OSX?	15:26
DocScrutinizer	cups been a child of apple	15:27
DocScrutinizer	for quite some time	15:27
DocScrutinizer	dunno if still	15:27
ruskie	sure it is	15:27
ruskie	it actually has some nice ideas... though as with all printing subsystems... it's a hack upon hack	15:27
pupnik	it got a lot easier to configure a couple years ago, following a complaint by... alan cox i think	15:28
DocScrutinizer	the point is: if your app can not print, then you need to export your document to some semi-popular format like pdf, ps2, txt, whatever, and feed this to cups directly	15:29
Macer	DocScrutinizer: hehe	15:29
DocScrutinizer	>>.. has its own filtering driver model for handling various document types.<<	15:29
Macer	DocScrutinizer: i'll lookinto it	15:30
* ruskie has a dot matrix printer he can just do cat plaintext.txt > /dev/lp0 -> prints it		15:30
Macer	wow.. dot matrix :)	15:30
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Macer	how nostalgic	15:30
Macer	back in the carbon copy era haha	15:30
Venemo	DocScrutinizer, ah, I understand	15:30
Macer	DocScrutinizer: i never did an apt-cache search for cups	15:31
Macer	wow	15:31
pupnik	i had a typewriter with serial interface	15:31
Macer	cups-common	15:32
pupnik	i could cat files to it	15:32
Macer	:)	15:32
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Macer	and there is a cups-client as well	15:32
pupnik	there was something awesome about the sound of an electric typewriter pecking-out your reports	15:32
ruskie	Macer, well it works even got new tapes for it	15:32
Macer	pupnik: hahaha	15:32
ruskie	just need to set it up sometime	15:32
psycho_oreos	a busy typist	15:33
Macer	ruskie: oh i'm sure it does. those things are tanks :)	15:33
ruskie	I need to reorganize my space for taht	15:33
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ruskie	even have some of that infinite paper for it	15:33
pupnik	i also miss the fizz sound of a dot-matrix	15:33
pupnik	fizzbt fizzbt fizzzzzzzzbt fizbt	15:33
Macer	pupnik: that noise would drive me crazy	15:33
Macer	like scratching a chalk board	15:33
ruskie	I have 2 printers that are currently not in use... a hp laserjet 4l and that dot matrix	15:33
pupnik	yeah but it sounded like work was being done	15:33
ruskie	need to find them room and possibly print servers	15:34
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ruskie	of course now-a-days you enter a computer store and say I need a parallel/lpt port cable with a centronix connector... all the y'ng ones with not even any hair on their chins will just stare wide-eyed at you	15:35
ruskie	or even a centronix print server	15:36
trx	haha	15:36
trx	true	15:36
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ruskie	and apparently they lack a definition of "good hardware"	15:39
ruskie	is this plasticky switch any good since it's the only one you have on offer... erm ow yeah no probs at all... has been chugging along for the past year...	15:39
ruskie	hook up... ok works... pass 9 months... part of the network stops working	15:40
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chem\|st	Macer: post network printers speak postscript or any common language and you can send files in that format to them without queue if the ram of the printer is huge enough	15:43
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* DocScrutinizer glares at his hp lj-p1505		15:57
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Macer	chem\|st: heh. well. i will dick around with getting maemo to print tomorrow. too much to do now.	15:58
DocScrutinizer	just amazing it works at all under linux	15:58
Macer	like i said.. i was happy enough i was able to use my su8w like an actual keyboard	15:58
Macer	i typed up a huge report all on my n900 :)	15:58
Macer	i haven't had a need for gnumeric tho.. i'm glad both apps save as od?	15:59
Macer	well. actually both apps save as pretty much anything :) they're aweswome for a portable office suite	15:59
Macer	at the very least better than anything android has atm	15:59
DocScrutinizer	spell: andridiot	16:00
pupnik	http://www.erikyyy.de/tempest/ listen to music via RF from your CRT monitor	16:01
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Macer	maybe but at least the hardware manufacturers for android phones seem a lot more open with getting their hardware to work with the community than nokia has ever been	16:01
Macer	i've never heard cyanogen saying "we can't get the camera going after 3 years because htc..."	16:03
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SpeedEvil	Aren't android 'ROMs largely simply reusing the original - not OS - apps without proper licencing?	16:07
Macer	who cares.. it works and they're not getting sued over it :)	16:07
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Macer	companies probably just turn a blind eye to it because it draws people to their phones.. google turns a blind eye because they advance android and draw more people to them.. it's win win	16:08
Macer	a concept nokia never understood	16:08
Macer	i've rooted and installed cyanogen on friends' G1s and G2s and they love it.. later they come with someone else asking me to do the same	16:09
Macer	and people are wondering why android is taking over the world.. because they are simply doing it right. they're starting to crush iphones	16:10
Macer	nokia is on its way out sooner or later after this ms disaster	16:10
Macer	palm is a joke	16:10
Macer	symbian might have a chance on the $5 prepay phones that can't do shit	16:11
pupnik	no repositories	16:11
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Macer	cyanogen probably added another year to my G1 :) since TMob saw no need to actually put out updates in a timely fashion. Wow did android suck when it first came out.. but look at how far it has coome.. you can use the dev argument about dalvik this and that... no xorg.. blahblah.. but it works and that's what is important. and has apps and features people actually want	16:13
pupnik	google momentum	16:13
pupnik	if nokia had pushed maemo big, they would have had nokia momentum	16:14
pupnik	2007-2008	16:14
Macer	pupnik: maybe. but google makes things people want too	16:14
Macer	pupnik: that's hindsight	16:14
pupnik	that was my foresight	16:14
Macer	of course they could have	16:14
Macer	but they dropped the ball and are now out of the game	16:14
pupnik	they were early	16:14
chem\|st	Macer: nokia is aware of further loss of at least 15% marketshare for smartphones due to transitional gaps, they still remain leading supplier of mobile devices	16:14
Macer	chem\|st: heh. that gap is going to grow	16:14
chem\|st	Macer: yeah it is a realy dumb idea to dodge maemo and "wait" for wp7	16:15
Macer	only thing keeping nokia alive are its cheap phones that they sell to india indians	16:15
Macer	chem\|st: it sure was. if they put their full weight behind maemo and dropped symbian when they had a chance then maemo would be doing amazing things	16:16
Macer	not to mention their half assed "community support" which was just for marketing	16:16
chem\|st	actualy I'd like to see wp7 for enterprise solutions and maemo/meego for all other smartphones and keep symbian for the lowcost devices	16:16
Macer	chem\|st: symbian has to go to the low cost devices.. nobody wants it anymore	16:16
Macer	it is pretty much a worthless throw away os	16:16
chem\|st	Macer: it is not a matter of want it is a matter of price	16:17
Macer	demand drives price	16:17
chem\|st	still symbian is one of the best enterprise solutions I know which do not need extra servers for everything	16:17
Macer	i would have thought the blackberry stuff was better	16:17
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Macer	which is why i am sure blackberries still own the cooperate world :)	16:18
chem\|st	enterprise solutions do not need to do fancy they need to work, safe, secure and reliable	16:18
chem\|st	Macer: yes	16:18
Macer	most people don't think "secure" when they think windows	16:18
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Macer	be it because of their market share of PCs runnign windows.. but windows is always the one which is attacked the most and also the easiest to do it to	16:19
chem\|st	but still companies like Daimler let their emps choose between a blackberry and a nokia for the sole reason to have not "only" one supplier at hand	16:19
pupnik	robustness has gotten more attention since the japan quakes	16:20
Macer	pupnik: the word? :)	16:20
chem\|st	huge companies cycle suppliers over time to keep the market running (at least the intelligent systems)	16:20
Macer	i am kind of sick of hearing "cloud" myself	16:20
pupnik	Macer: alternatives	16:20
pupnik	Macer: in designing systems and outsourcing solutions, you can optimise but sometimes that optimisation leads to fragility	16:21
chem\|st	all my closer friends move back to "phone just phone" but for the dirty bit, waterproof >2m for 30mins, dustproof et al	16:21
chem\|st	no more fancy stuff	16:22
Macer	heh. i have a g1 g2 and n900.. just because the su8w started to work with my n900.. i almost see no moe need for the g2	16:22
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Macer	android is pretty ... but maemo just found a special place in my heart again	16:22
chem\|st	and for sure as soon as I get a UMPC as light and durable as the n900 I dodge the smartphone market again	16:22
Macer	and the n900 has actually turned into a sensible office solution	16:23
chem\|st	true	16:23
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Macer	if maemo concentrated on things like bt keyboards and printing when it first came out.. it would be leading the pack :)	16:23
chem\|st	I thought of buying one or two in spare account just to have untouched hardware for the next years before they stop selling it	16:23
Macer	especially considering the powerful linux based apps it can run	16:23
Macer	nothing beats abiword in android.. and i've tried them all heh	16:24
pupnik	maybe meego device will be a phone	16:24
Macer	but then again i'm a big kde4 fan so maybe it's just me :)	16:24
Macer	pupnik: i am incredibly skeptical about meego.. nokia turned meego into sega	16:24
chem\|st	just recently "no you are not... damn you are... freak... to keep the list short... how good is it with the coffeemaker?"	16:25
Macer	abandon this for that.. then abandon this for that.. and so on and so forth until nobody wants it because it will be abandoned again	16:25
Macer	as they proved with maemo	16:25
Macer	and i can't think of any other manufacturer who will pick up meego as their os	16:25
Macer	intel will probably release some pad that will fail	16:26
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chem\|st	Macer: meego is already on a productive device	16:26
chem\|st	I mean "sold" with	16:26
chem\|st	Macer: http://wetab.mobi/en/product/	16:27
chem\|st	damn I need to nice things like tar and stuff by default...	16:29
chem\|st	music stopped again :\	16:29
DocScrutinizer	(meego)-> [2011-05-17 13:29:21] <kjokinie> alterego: about uptime.. I haven't run measurements lately, though jhnikula made couple of patches to fix the audio parts, we should be in the ballpark of 15mA consumption when idling currently... battery is 1320mAh, you can do the math yourself :)	16:30
DocScrutinizer	[2011-05-17 13:30:26] <kjokinie> alterego: that's still almost 3 times the maemo consumption	16:30
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DocScrutinizer	[2011-05-17 13:31:24] <kimju> I'm seeing quite a lot cpu activity, we are not staying idle that much	16:31
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: idle wifi logged in with a few accounts gives 20mA^^	16:31
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DocScrutinizer	[2011-05-17 13:37:02] <kimju> and another issue is that sometimes the device stays "idling" around ~65mA level. no idea about what is causing that	16:32
Macer	:)	16:33
DocScrutinizer	</quote> and that's not going to change any time soon for meego-arm, as they rely on a general-purpose upstream kernel and middleware that's written by guys ignorant of the particular needs of an embedded device	16:33
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Macer	meego uses fennec by default. that should say it all right there :)	16:34
DocScrutinizer	so better don't hold your breath for a proper true meego based phone	16:34
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Macer	chem\|st: "based on meego" that would make me nervous to buy one right there	16:37
GAN900	Another dual-core Android monster phone.	16:37
Macer	wonder how much they sell them for	16:37
GAN900	N950 better kick ass.	16:37
edheldil	Macer: 500e	16:38
Macer	edheldil: ah. so judging by the Greece problems.. $20US?	16:38
Macer	:) jk	16:38
DocScrutinizer	judging by the US deficit, probably around 1500USD	16:39
Macer	euro banks are better at bailing countries out than our treasury dept.. when they're not off raping maids and what not	16:39
Macer	DocScrutinizer: the european deficit is probably just as much ;)	16:39
edheldil	Macer: heard about immininet US bankrupcy on TV, so I would not be as impertinent ;-)	16:39
GAN900	Hooray for collectivist assholes.	16:39
Macer	edheldil: it's ok.. we have tanks :)	16:39
DocScrutinizer	well, EU hastn't received a credibility warning of a top notch rating agency yet	16:40
Macer	"yet"	16:40
DocScrutinizer	so what, USA actually has	16:40
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Macer	hahaha.. fair enough :)	16:40
Macer	$US is still gaining on the euro every day	16:40
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, as your politicians seems more agressively collectivist across the board, I don't think it'll take too long. :P	16:41
Macer	only thing slowing it down is europe.. talk about chicken and the egg	16:41
Macer	too many EU investments here	16:41
Macer	free trade in a nutshell i suppose	16:41
Macer	at least we dragged everybody down with our housing market :)	16:41
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DocScrutinizer	yeah	16:41
Macer	you don't think we love free trade because of the profits do you? it's really just to make sure when we go we take everybody else with us	16:42
DocScrutinizer	and it's actually harder to get 37 credit cards each holding debit, in random EU country	16:42
GAN900	Macer, this situation has very little to do with free trade. ;)	16:42
Macer	GAN900: :) the situation here does.	16:42
GAN900	More like protectionism, government-sponsored credit overextension, out-of-control entitlement spending, corporatism, etc.	16:43
chem\|st	OPEC already dropped $ out of their funds cycle, now its EUR YEN and their own currency	16:43
GAN900	None of those have anything to do with the free market or capitalism.	16:43
pupnik	the latter word gets used to mean different things	16:43
chem\|st	mexico sold all their $ balances	16:43
GAN900	Since what we practice in the US bears only a passing resemblance.	16:43
Macer	so just piss poor world wide government fiscal irresponsibility?	16:44
Macer	chem\|st: how do you know that isn't the grand plan? :)	16:44
GAN900	Macer, that's a big part of it, but there's also the nasty corporate cronyism between politicians and monopolists.	16:44
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Macer	tell the nasdaq to reduce the rating.. drop the value.. buy it back incredibly cheap... then await the housing market return and sell AIG at a huge gain eliminating the debt	16:45
GAN900	Also: stop paying people just for getting old.	16:45
Macer	well. :)	16:46
Macer	social security is more so a mess because it was the cookie jar	16:46
* DocScrutinizer funds bartertown		16:46
Macer	not to mention people are paid more than they put in which was not its intent	16:46
Macer	but old people vote so they get what they want :)	16:46
GAN900	Ponzi scheme	16:47
Macer	sure is	16:47
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Macer	worst one ever made :)	16:47
pupnik	wb wazd	16:47
Macer	had good intentions tho	16:47
GAN900	The road to hell and whatnot.	16:47
pupnik	so did pol pot	16:47
GAN900	Collectivism just doesn't get you anywhere.	16:48
GAN900	And, frankly, I don't think it ever had good intentiond.	16:48
pupnik	what youtube viewer do you use on n900?	16:48
GAN900	It's always about control.	16:48
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GAN900	Quieting the discontented masses.	16:48
GAN900	MicroB	16:48
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chem\|st	Macer: grandplan? the us is actualy bankrupt	16:49
pupnik	GAN900: i'd prefer not using the flah vm	16:49
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: now you begin to see why I refuse to own a credit card	16:49
pupnik	chem\|st: and germany isn't?	16:49
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik: definitely not yet	16:49
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, because collectivists want to bribe everybody into believing they're not evil?	16:49
BCMM	talking of youtube, are there any hardware-accelerated HTML5 <video> implementation for the n900?	16:50
GAN900	There's nothing wrong with reasonable credit	16:50
chem\|st	pupnik: as long as you get deposit your at least save	16:50
BCMM	i mean, the hardware ought to be capable of it	16:50
GAN900	Only way to grow an economy with any sort of speed.	16:50
pupnik	BCMM: there's .flv player (mplayer) that does the job much better than flash	16:51
DocScrutinizer	bartertown is the future	16:51
BCMM	pupnik: most stuff does most stuff better than flash :)	16:51
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: I run bartertown	16:51
nid0	I fail to see how my credit card is in any way evil :\	16:51
chem\|st	can we please get rid of flash and java?!	16:51
BCMM	but mplayer still isn't hardware-accelerated, is it?	16:51
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: I'll call you Turner	16:51
pupnik	barter is not the future, it's the deep past	16:52
BCMM	but yeah, even on my desktop i typically watch youtube in mplayer	16:52
pupnik	correct BCMM	16:52
BCMM	i have a short script that uses youtube-dl to get the URL, then plays it in mplayer	16:52
pupnik	there's also a youtube-shell that will let you search and launch youtubes from command line	16:53
BCMM	there ought to be a firefox extension to replace youtube vids with an mplayer-starting button	16:53
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pupnik	or a anything starting button	16:54
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik: see? history running in circles	16:54
pupnik	raise the transaction costs too high and civilization collapses into a new dark age	16:55
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: Masterblaster please	16:55
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: clubs are weapons of the deep past as well, still Einstein said he doesn't know about WW3, but he's sure clubs are the weapons of WW4	16:56
nid0	except he misspoke	16:56
nid0	there'll still be someone somewhere with a gun for ww4, and he'll beat the clubs hands-down	16:56
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chem\|st	what is the definition of WW3? Terrorist VS western hemisphere sounds pretty much like WW3	16:58
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DocScrutinizer	nid0: that might be true for guns and clubs (though I doubt), but it doesn't apply to power of money and stock market speculations in the financial war. Bartering won't simply care about little papers with funny printings on them, no matter how much of then anybody got	16:58
nid0	well, until that day comes along, im perfectly happy with the convenience of swiping my shiny little bit of plastic to pay for things :)	16:59
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chem\|st	nid0: worst case, this year already... some huge countries are walking the razoredge already	17:00
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, yes, fiat currency is ridiculous.	17:02
GAN900	Doesn't mean barter is a viable alternative.	17:02
GAN900	What you're actually looking for is the gold standard. :P	17:02
DocScrutinizer	sure, never claimed that	17:02
DocScrutinizer	just playing one of my sarcastic fatalistic jokes on our modern world	17:03
DocScrutinizer	not all of a joke, when you look at Greece getting economy-bombed back to ~1920	17:04
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DocScrutinizer	next: Ireland, Portugal, USA, the world	17:05
DocScrutinizer	;-D	17:05
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pupnik	funny that linux compositing WM's still haven't supported keycolor transpareency in like 8 years	17:06
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DocScrutinizer	thought we got alpha for that	17:07
DocScrutinizer	compositing isn't a bluebox	17:07
pupnik	it means that your text is unreadable	17:07
pupnik	it's the wrong solution	17:08
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* pupnik thwaps linux kids with Foley & Van Damme		17:08
Macer	word	17:09
Macer	damn sshguard	17:09
Macer	:) i didn't whitelist my local subnet	17:09
DocScrutinizer	o.O	17:09
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Macer	love west wing	17:13
Macer	best damn thing martin sheen was ever in	17:13
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ShadowJK	http://bellard.org/jslinux	17:24
ShadowJK	ultimate madness: running that in fennec on n900	17:24
DocScrutinizer	eh?	17:24
DocScrutinizer	please don't tell me some fool implemented the kernel in js	17:25
Macer	haha	17:25
Macer	yup	17:25
jaska	its just x86 emu	17:25
Macer	no chromium for maemo?	17:25
ShadowJK	It's qemu implemented in js	17:25
DocScrutinizer	PFFFF	17:25
DocScrutinizer	ERROR: your browser is too old to run JS/Linux.	17:25
DocScrutinizer		17:26
DocScrutinizer	You should use a recent browser such as Firefox 4.x or Google Chrome.	17:26
ShadowJK	2.5 minutes: kernel booted, init starting	17:26
DocScrutinizer	<YAAAWN>	17:26
Macer	DocScrutinizer: yah.. me too hahaha	17:26
Macer	old microb	17:26
ShadowJK	oh hey I have a prompt	17:26
Macer	is microb even being developed anymore?	17:26
* ShadowJK is running it in fennec		17:26
DocScrutinizer	I couldn't think of anything more useless atm - maybe that changes on my next booze	17:27
ShadowJK	I'm surprised this boots on n900 at all	17:28
ShadowJK	in a time less than the expected age of the universe	17:28
Macer	haha	17:29
DocScrutinizer	meh, you don't assume this to be some serious thing	17:29
DocScrutinizer	you do?	17:29
ShadowJK	fabrice always does crazy tech demos	17:30
ShadowJK	like the tcc compile+boot kernel in 8 secs	17:30
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mece	jacekowski, ping	17:30
ShadowJK	or producing valid DVB-T signal by drawing the right patterns of pixels to framebuffer	17:31
DocScrutinizer	o,O	17:31
ShadowJK	only in the VHF band, but still :)	17:32
pupnik	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/16/android_impersonation_attacks/ 99% of Android phones leak secret account credentials anyone miss this?	17:32
DocScrutinizer	andridiot, meh. who cares	17:33
DocScrutinizer	as if I had expected anything different - of course each andridiot system is leaking all info to google	17:34
mece	pupnik, #obvious	17:34
mece	pupnik, although I always enjoy spreading dirt on google, so thanks for the link :)	17:35
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mece	speaking of evil, I mean google, has anyone tried to compile chromium 11 for maemo?	17:36
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pupnik	hahah	17:36
pupnik	how many GB source does it require	17:36
ShadowJK	lol	17:36
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pupnik	Well done Google, authentication tokens over plain HTTP, top marks for stupidity.	17:38
ShadowJK	I recently saw someone's hotmail account taken over for exact same reason	17:39
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ShadowJK	apparently https is "optional" and you have to go into settings (and there are like 5 different settings links, taking you to different subsets of settings with no apparent pattern)	17:40
ShadowJK	and enable https	17:40
DocScrutinizer	hexavalent chromium (Cr(VI) or Cr6+) is very toxic and mutagenic	17:41
DocScrutinizer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexavalent_chromium#Toxicity	17:42
mece	pupnik, talking to me?	17:42
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pupnik	mece: me?	17:43
mece	pupnik, (05:37:06 PM) pupnik: how many GB source does it require	17:43
pupnik	yes, the chromium source	17:43
mece	pupnik, no idea. I was just curious.	17:43
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* DocScrutinizer is waiting for a browser caled VX		17:44
mece	pupnik, I've tried to make sense of Capt'n Corrupt's ramblings on tmo regarding chrome os, and afaik chrome browser == chrome os in practice.	17:44
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DocScrutinizer	isn't chrome OS basically a bloated browser to do everything as HTML?	17:46
DocScrutinizer	>> Since Google Chrome OS is aimed at users who spend most of their computer time on the Internet, the only application on the device will be a browser incorporating a media player.<<	17:48
chem\|st	reality got me back....	17:49
mece	DocScrutinizer, yes.	17:49
mece	DocScrutinizer, so chrome os < ALL OTHER OS's	17:49
DocScrutinizer	fsckit	17:49
chem\|st	stupitity is no excuse^^	17:50
DocScrutinizer	I suggest a kernel with built-in X, so all you do at boottime is open a X port and connect to a remote server	17:50
DocScrutinizer	BLAERGH	17:51
mece	DocScrutinizer, a whaa?	17:51
pupnik	remember thin clients	17:52
DocScrutinizer	I know, I know	17:52
chem\|st	~400mW with wifi and playback of mp3s over headset is not that bad would love to have that on my netbook... there my system up "only" is 10W	17:53
infobot	that's too long, chem\|st	17:53
chem\|st	~IDK	17:54
infobot	hmm... idk is I don't know	17:54
DocScrutinizer	~kick chem\|st	17:54
* infobot kicks chem\|st		17:54
DocScrutinizer	;-)	17:54
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chem\|st	~coffee DocScrutinizer	17:55
* infobot steals some of ZogG's special coffee and gives it to DocScrutinizer on a silver platter.		17:55
ShadowJK	I sounds low, but if it's playback of mp3 on N900, it makes sense	17:55
Macer	hm	17:55
Macer	let me try out firefox	17:55
chem\|st	70mA at 4.xV	17:55
Macer	maybe it is just because i used fennec while it w2as n[Cw	17:56
Macer	was new	17:56
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chem\|st	I needed to purge fennec and install it from scratch as some of the upgrades did screw it	17:57
Macer	omg why is app manager so slow	17:57
Macer	i blame python	17:57
lcuk	macer with -devel enabled, it has every version of every package	17:57
DocScrutinizer	because of the huge repos it has to update and rebuild the local db	17:57
Macer	oh	17:58
lcuk	suggestions in the past would be to have the repositories including only required dependencies I think	17:58
DocScrutinizer	hi lcuk	17:58
lcuk	hi DocScrutinizer \o	17:58
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ShadowJK	app manager on my N900 does "Hcecking for updates" after every single tap	17:59
ShadowJK	and doesn't update automatically when not running HAM	17:59
DocScrutinizer	that's indeed the unique feature of HAM	17:59
chem\|st	Macer: 18MB repos if all extras are enabled	17:59
lcuk	I am guessing it would be possible to scan and filter to specifically required packages	18:00
lcuk	so that all dependencies are cared for	18:00
lcuk	but that would be server side	18:00
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: speaking outa my a... I'd say that's almost exactly what HAM does	18:00
DocScrutinizer	ooh, server side - good point	18:01
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edheldil	there is also a possibility to run apt-get install and apt-cache search directly ;-)	18:01
Macer	no flash in fennec?	18:01
lcuk	edheldil, PITA for end users	18:01
DocScrutinizer	edheldil: also dangerous	18:01
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chem\|st	and incremental diff support to not have a download of xMB each update	18:02
mece	Macer, you can do some about:config setting hack to enable flash	18:02
ShadowJK	I just tapped "Update". So one repo died, it popped up message about that. Upon tapping "Details", to see which repo failed, it went "Checking for updates" again.	18:02
chem\|st	Macer: about:config^^	18:02
chem\|st	Macer: its just not activated	18:02
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: that's odd	18:02
chem\|st	ShadowJK: vlc died lately	18:03
ShadowJK	yeah	18:03
Macer	chem\|st: ok. i will hunt it down	18:04
ShadowJK	sygic too	18:04
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Macer	chem\|st: uhm	18:11
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* GeneralAntilles teehees.		18:11
Macer	what do i enable	18:12
Macer	about:config has a million options	18:12
GeneralAntilles	http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/05/firmware-hack-can-transform-a-2009-mac-pro-into-a-12-core-monster.ars	18:12
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DocScrutinizer	monster as in "no sw support for those friggin cores"?	18:13
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pupnik	n900fly is on maemo-select >_<	18:13
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GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer: OS X is quite good on the SMP.	18:14
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer: do a lot of video and CGI stuff that parallelizes well, too. ;)	18:14
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DocScrutinizer	well, the URL wording is massively misleading. It's about a physical CPU upgrade and how to support it via EFI. I thought they're going to enable user to use some "hidden" cores - like the shaders in gfx or sth - which wouldn't exactly match the def for SMP	18:17
ShadowJK	the fact you have to hack firmware to do a cpu upgrade...	18:18
DocScrutinizer	is bad enough	18:18
ShadowJK	spot the facepalm	18:18
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GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer: yes, well. ;)	18:19
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK: yes, I agree.	18:19
GeneralAntilles	But the damn thing was free.	18:19
DocScrutinizer	what? your 2009 mbp?	18:20
mece	anyway back to android bashing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6hienXEd0Y	18:21
mece	I LOL'd	18:21
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GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, my late-2004 G5 (water cooled) leaked early in 2009 and killed itsely.	18:23
GeneralAntilles	s/itsely/itself	18:23
mece	the video brings up the question are both processors actually used on the atrix?	18:23
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chem\|st	isnt fring the microsoft facebook?	18:24
GeneralAntilles	Took about 5 months, but I eventually got Apple to replace it wholesale after first having them agree to a free repair of: motherboard, PSU, case, and CPUs, which was DOA.	18:24
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mece	N9 trailer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-KfxrI1NXg	18:25
GeneralAntilles	OK, who wants to collect the screengrabs and post them on Talk for Thanks!+++++++	18:27
Lynoure	mece: the real device will come with even longer shots of beautiful people and scenery? :)	18:27
GeneralAntilles	"Your watched item, Nikon Nikkor 85mm f1.4, is ending soon" clearly filmed by a photographer.	18:28
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ShadowJK	Someone reply with "What about flash10 and 3g video calls?!" to that youtoob	18:29
ShadowJK	:P	18:29
ShadowJK	hm, so.. No lens cover, single flash (led or xenon?), portrait mode, cocaine dispenser, hw keyboard N97 style,	18:31
ShadowJK	and too thin for a proper battery. No visible battery door?	18:32
ShadowJK	This should set tmo on fire :)	18:32
Jaffa	Nokia've been moving away from those for ages	18:32
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Jaffa	People still read TMO?	18:32
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* ShadowJK wonders how long until MeeGo DE on N9		18:34
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ShadowJK	I wonder what became of Nokia's fuel cell prototypes	18:37
ShadowJK	fuel cell and a Li-Ion battery in a phone	18:37
ShadowJK	it did hotswap :(	18:37
merge	hey, i run mozillas latest-beta repo and don't get version 4.0.1	18:38
merge	why is that	18:39
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chem\|st	ShadowJK: no cocaine dispenser would be a show stopper!	18:51
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mece	GeneralAntilles, good idea! :D http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1008281&postcount=505	18:54
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: where from you got those hw spec details?	18:56
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Jaffa	ShadowJK: The video on YouTube claiming to be a teaser for the N9	18:58
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: ^	18:58
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Aspects of it look convincing that it's some form of Harmattan device	18:58
MohammadAG	it seems to be harmattan, indeed	18:58
MohammadAG	wanna bet you'll get it at meegoconf?	18:58
MohammadAG	(And I won't, /me cries)	18:59
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Jaffa	Not sure I'd bet on it for meegoconf	19:00
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, pretty sure it'll be there, at least as a developer device like the 300 one in Amsterdam	19:01
Jaffa	Would be nice to get something shiny	19:01
* DocScrutinizer frowns and turns away		19:02
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, if that's true then can I blame my exams for not getting one?	19:03
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* Jaffa hopes Harmattan isn't an enormous regression in usability (e.g. good hardware keyboard, terminal, SSH, hackability)		19:04
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: isn't there a devel dev queue for N9?	19:04
lardman	MohammadAG: I wonder if I can blame needing to move house?	19:04
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I'm guessing there's nothing until they announce it	19:05
nid0	tbh, the keyboard cant be much worse than the n900's, but from that trailer it looks like it is a crummy n900-style 3-line job	19:05
MohammadAG	at least as a dev issue	19:05
lardman	I quite like the look of the E7 though, if it ran Linux	19:05
MohammadAG	lardman, moving is one thing, exams is another :p	19:06
Jaffa	The E7 feels a lot flimsier and more delicate than the N8, cos of the big sliding keyboard	19:06
SpeedEvil	Hmm. In principle I could get to meego 2011 - but without any money to spend once I got there.	19:07
* SpeedEvil was idly wondering.		19:07
MohammadAG	Jaffa, ever used an N97?	19:07
SpeedEvil	I have way more sane things to spend cash on.	19:07
Jaffa	MohammadAG: I have.	19:07
lardman	MohammadAG: hey I have to invigilate some exams :p	19:07
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lardman	so what was that a trailer for?	19:07
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: if Nokia fails to send me a N9 evaluation PV sample, after I've proven on N900to find all the bugs in hw, then they're more ignorant than I ever thought	19:08
Jaffa	lardman: Looks to be RM-680, a Harmattan device.	19:08
lardman	Jaffa: ah, finally it breaks cover	19:08
Jaffa	Whether that's the "N9" or the "N9 Dev Device" or...	19:08
lardman	I have given up reading TMO	19:08
nid0	thank christ its not edof	19:08
MohammadAG	N9 isn't the name afaik	19:08
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MohammadAG	that's for Windows Phone 7 stuff	19:09
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Oh?	19:09
MohammadAG	Yeah, I thought they went back to NXXX	19:09
MohammadAG	like N950	19:09
Jaffa	MohammadAG: There's been no public talk about a name. There was the "N950" to set expectations over what you'd get, and there was the Settings translations debacle which contained	19:09
Jaffa	..."About my N9" - but that could change at any point.	19:10
MohammadAG	anyway, I guess we should refer to it as the RM-680	19:10
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Or "Harmattan device"	19:10
MohammadAG	it's a shame it won't have an RGB LED, that's a big regression imo	19:10
lcuk	the n900 has 384001 RGB leds :P	19:11
SpeedEvil	No it doesn't.	19:11
SpeedEvil	It has one.	19:11
Jaffa	No it... snap	19:11
lcuk	ok it has 384000 RGB lcd thingies	19:11
lcuk	and 1 led	19:11
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MohammadAG	by the looks of it, the N950 will also lack lasers	19:11
* MohammadAG is disappointed		19:11
lardman	and a couple of RGB ones which have the same output on each channel	19:11
Jaffa	And a tea's made	19:11
SpeedEvil	What about lazors?	19:11
Jaffa	s/made/maid/	19:12
infobot	Jaffa meant: And a tea's maid	19:12
SpeedEvil	lardman: more than that - keyboard and display LEDs too	19:12
SpeedEvil	lardman: a dozenish	19:12
lcuk	will it come with seabass attachment though?	19:12
lardman	SpeedEvil: true :)	19:12
MohammadAG	I want the one that shoots portals!	19:12
DocScrutinizer	those aren't RGB	19:12
lcuk	MohammadAG, interesting	19:13
DocScrutinizer	they're evidently BY aka white	19:13
DocScrutinizer	N8 seems to have OLED screen?	19:14
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DocScrutinizer	so maybe RX680 as well?	19:14
MohammadAG	RM-680	19:14
DocScrutinizer	then indeed it has quite a number of RGB LEDs	19:14
MohammadAG	that's what MeeGo's sources say	19:14
MohammadAG	well, mce's sources	19:14
* lardman browses Google looking for Harmattan goodies and finds lots of pages from '09		19:15
DocScrutinizer	say what?	19:15
DocScrutinizer	OLED or RM-680?	19:15
MohammadAG	err, what?	19:15
MohammadAG	I think you're confused, I was talking about the notification light :p	19:16
DocScrutinizer	mhm	19:16
DocScrutinizer	yeah, idiocy	19:16
MohammadAG	I have it red for SMS, green for IM, blue for emails, fading in and out red/blue for missed calls	19:16
MohammadAG	one light can't indicate all those	19:16
MohammadAG	so that's a regression for me	19:16
SpeedEvil	Morse.	19:16
DocScrutinizer	as a RGB LED isn't really more expensive than a silly white one	19:16
MohammadAG	cba to learn that :p	19:16
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I'm guessing they went with an N8 look	19:17
SpeedEvil	It's a bit more expensive. I'd guess 15 cents, not 5	19:17
MohammadAG	I hope they add in hardware buttons for s(end)	19:17
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: no way	19:17
MohammadAG	15 cents won't break Nokia anyway	19:17
DocScrutinizer	marginally more expensive, but in the range of 5ct rather than 15	19:18
lardman	lol, I thought you were talking about the finish of the device	19:18
MohammadAG	the screen's probably a 4" AMOLED, ala E7	19:18
SpeedEvil	The cheapest LED I see in 1000s is $.37 at digikey	19:19
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MohammadAG	chances are Nokia learned from the N900, so a 32GB eMMC will hold rootfs	19:19
lardman	so do we reckon dual core then?	19:19
MohammadAG	which in turn probably means flashing = removing user data	19:19
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Sc0rpius	N9 will have 64 GB or so I heard	19:19
lardman	Cortex A9?	19:19
MohammadAG	lardman, I'm guessing single core 1.0 - 1.2	19:20
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GeneralAntilles	lardman, I really hope so at this point.	19:20
MohammadAG	don't mind a dual core device, would need software optimizations but at least the HW's safe	19:20
GeneralAntilles	Coming out of the gate with an OMAP3630 is going to be bad news.	19:20
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MohammadAG	wb alter	19:20
MohammadAG	tab fail	19:21
alterego	I have to say, that teaser trailer is very sexy	19:21
GeneralAntilles	mece, more pictures.	19:21
alterego	I actually did a little wee in my pants.	19:21
nid0	the lack of dedicated number row on the keyboard is disappointing though :(	19:21
alterego	And I like the new rocky style promo video	19:21
* GeneralAntilles notes the dimmer TRIAC on one of the overhead lights is now pulsing at 3hz in the "off" position. . . .		19:21
MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, I really hope I'm wrong about the single core guess but...	19:21
alterego	Much cooler than the normal Nokia (look how nice and green we are)	19:21
MohammadAG	the same N9 was around in what? November?	19:22
GeneralAntilles	MohammadAG, I don't think you are.	19:22
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lardman	well whatever the case I hope they just get on with it, am getting bored of waiting	19:22
GeneralAntilles	But there were those rumors about delays to update hardware.	19:22
alterego	MohammadAG: unless they've updated the previous hardware (OMAP3650	19:22
GeneralAntilles	lardman: +++++++++++++++++++	19:22
DocScrutinizer	ok, been wrong. Actually digikey has then in the 30ct range	19:22
lardman	in fact I was getting bored of waiting 8 months ago	19:22
alterego	It will be single core.	19:22
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* MohammadAG hears the sound of dreams shattering		19:22
alterego	12MP Carl Zeiss, I'm happy with that :)	19:22
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: (digikey) yes ^^^	19:23
alterego	It looks like an aluminum back cover (like the N810 had) too	19:23
nid0	and AF \o/	19:23
MohammadAG	12MP is meh, bring on 25!	19:23
alterego	MohammadAG: 12MP is about as high as I'm willing to go for that size tbg	19:23
alterego	Hell, it's arguable too high for that size.	19:23
MohammadAG	alterego, 25 isn't realistic, your sarcasm detector's borked	19:23
* GAN900 orders a real backpack for SF.		19:23
alterego	So's your face.	19:23
MohammadAG	fu :p	19:24
alterego	GAN900: we're all meeting for drunks in the Hyatt bar on Saturday night if you're interested?	19:24
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alterego	s/drunks/drinks/	19:24
infobot	alterego meant: GAN900: we're all meeting for drinks in the Hyatt bar on Saturday night if you're interested?	19:24
lardman	hmm, wish I'd applied for SF now that work has tailed off	19:24
alterego	Freudian slip ...	19:24
lardman	ah well	19:24
GAN900	alterego, was thinking dinenr sometime before that.	19:24
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alterego	GAN900: I arrive at 3:30pm, I'd be happy to wander around with you ;)	19:25
GAN900	And the mwkn during/after drinking.	19:25
alterego	I'm arriving with Jaffa	19:25
GAN900	Got a dozen or so people in for dinner.	19:25
alterego	Sounds good	19:25
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MohammadAG	alterego, ever wondered if columbus worked in flight?	19:25
lardman	do we know if there will be streaming coverage of the talks in SF?	19:25
GAN900	Apparently the council is meeting up sometime in the evening for their secret planning meeting.	19:25
Jaffa	GAN900: MWKN drinks/food is Sunday, no?	19:25
alterego	MohammadAG: I'll be testing it :P	19:25
GAN900	So maybe after that.	19:25
GAN900	Oh, yes.	19:26
GAN900	Saturday != Sunday	19:26
lardman	depends if your logic is fuxxy	19:26
lardman	fuzzy even	19:26
GAN900	Well maybe if we get drunk enough it wont matter.	19:26
MohammadAG	lol	19:26
alterego	Hahah	19:27
lardman	well that's a definition of fuzzy :)	19:27
GAN900	lardman, I'm planning on providing a live IRC blog.	19:27
alterego	GAN900: me too!	19:27
MohammadAG	<alterego> MohammadAG: I'll be testing it :P <-- sure the speed digits will fit?	19:27
lardman	cool :)	19:27
alterego	MohammadAG: heh	19:27
MohammadAG	I doubt you'll be traveling at 100-999 kmph speeds :p	19:27
alterego	MohammadAG: overflow ftw! :)	19:27
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GAN900	alterego, I may be in for Saturday. I'm getting in in the evening and staying with a friend. He may want to do dinner.	19:27
ShadowJK	MohammadAG, rootfs on emmc is going to be such a lagfest once you marginally even approach using more than 70% ram it wont even be funny anymore :)	19:27
alterego	MohammadAG: I'll update it to include an extra 0 :P	19:28
ShadowJK	especially if they're still using ext3	19:28
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: Columbus too the ship	19:28
DocScrutinizer	tok*	19:28
DocScrutinizer	damn	19:28
MohammadAG	alterego, I'd start adding division	19:28
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: Columbus took a ship	19:28
MohammadAG	so alterego's hijacking the plane?	19:28
alterego	MohammadAG: yeah, I'll do a branch called "Wright" :P	19:29
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MohammadAG	merlin1991, I'm getting my license tomorrow :p	19:29
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* alterego notes "Ovi Maps" in this screeny - http://nokiagadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lLLLLL.jpg		19:31
lardman	ah, it seems there will indeed by live streaming :) http://sf2011.meego.com/program/live-streaming	19:31
alterego	TV & Video?	19:31
lardman	s/by/be	19:31
* ShadowJK wonders if sandisk's "iSSD" is actually non-stupid		19:31
alterego	Oh no ..	19:31
* lardman heads for home		19:31
lardman	cu chaps later	19:31
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SpeedEvil	I was interested to see that samsungs newer 'emmc' line offers something similar to trim.	19:32
ShadowJK	Yeah... and Nokia has trim support iirc	19:33
ShadowJK	(in harmattan)	19:33
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ShadowJK	I'm not sure trim helps much if they're still using the same fundamental algorithms as on typical sd/mmc/usbflash though..	19:34
* alterego notices the camera app icon looks somewhat reminiscent of this - http://a.abcnews.com/images/Technology/ap_hal_080415_ssh.jpg		19:36
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SpeedEvil	Trim helps modestly to avoid fragmentation on flash.	19:37
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SpeedEvil	It means that the flash controller explicitly knows what parts of the disk are not wanted, and can be zeroed.	19:37
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SpeedEvil	Rather than having to interpret.	19:38
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SpeedEvil	This means that there is more 'free space' for wear leveling to happen in.	19:38
SpeedEvil	In a normal SD card, the 'free space' is only the space specifically allocated to wear leveling.	19:38
SpeedEvil	In a trim-supporting card, it's potentially that, plus any empty space.	19:39
ShadowJK	And allocation takes place in erase block sizes anyway..	19:39
ShadowJK	And there's a limited (1-4, according to linaro's research) amount of pages it can keep "open" simultaneously	19:40
SpeedEvil	Potentially.	19:40
alterego	Ooo, the on screen keyboard looks nice.	19:40
* SpeedEvil wishes that the micro was exposed, and programmable again.		19:40
pupnik_	elop looks like something out of a cthulhu book	19:40
ShadowJK	So that means if you have two apps writing 4k sequentially, it is translated into repeated 256k (or 512k, whatever erase block size is) read-modify	19:40
ShadowJK	so class rating speed divided by 64 :P	19:41
DocScrutinizer	alterego: wtf are you talking about?	19:42
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, N9/N950 trailer	19:42
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DocScrutinizer	I fsckng haven't seen a vknd looking nice there	19:43
DocScrutinizer	nor do I get how anybody can find out about "no visible battery door"	19:44
pupnik_	thin is in	19:45
alterego	Sort of looks like it could be Malik	19:45
alterego	But probably not.	19:46
frals	trailer wat?	19:49
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alterego	frals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-KfxrI1NXg	19:52
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: just look at the first few seconds when it rotates to show the back.	19:52
alterego	Looks like brushed metal	19:52
alterego	Not saying it is.	19:52
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alterego	Just saying it reminds me of the N810, especially with the edges at the top	19:53
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alterego	The flash looks a bit puney though	19:54
DocScrutinizer	alterego: which timemark?	19:55
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alterego	~3seconds	19:55
ShadowJK	alterego, but atleast it wont blind itself with the flash	19:55
ShadowJK	like n900	19:55
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alterego	Has anyone managed to read a disk that hasn't been finalized under windows on a Linux PC?	19:55
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MohammadAG	<--	19:57
alterego	How?	19:58
MohammadAG	just pop it in and press play	19:58
MohammadAG	:p	19:58
MohammadAG	it works as is for me	19:58
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: that's quite a blurry sth I can't tell anything from, at ~3s	20:00
alterego	DocScrutinizer: yeah, it sort of comes in and out of focus.	20:00
alterego	I think I'll download the video and watch it on my local machine ;)	20:00
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alterego	Seems to have a 1080p source ..	20:00
alterego	DocScrutinizer: you in SF next week?	20:01
DocScrutinizer	alas not, no CC	20:01
alterego	Aw :(	20:01
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: you may try to find sb who understands about why to send me an evaluation sample, an NDA + a schematics	20:02
alterego	DocScrutinizer: we'll see.	20:03
alterego	I bet you'll all be offered dev devices	20:03
SpeedEvil	Wish I had spare funds to get to SF.	20:03
alterego	I'm still quite hesitant to believe they'll me giving them out in SF	20:03
alterego	Seems pretty unlikely to me ..	20:03
alterego	s/me/be/	20:03
infobot	alterego meant: Seems pretty unlikely to be ..	20:04
alterego	ffs ..	20:04
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alterego	Heh, there's an advert for an E7 next to the N9 vid in my browser.	20:05
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lardman	one thing I did forget to ask, is do we reckon it will have a digital compass?	20:05
* lardman hopes so		20:05
alterego	lardman: I'm pretty sure it will.	20:06
alterego	They're sticking them in all the others.	20:06
lardman	well that was the case with the N97 too, but I do hope so	20:06
alterego	I imagine peripheral wise it should be similar to N8, so I'm hoping for HDMI, USB OTG &, compo, compass etc.	20:06
ShadowJK	what about a gyro	20:07
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lardman	for position information in lifts? ;)	20:07
ShadowJK	for attitude info	20:08
lardman	can't one determine that with a 3 axis accelerometer?	20:08
ShadowJK	no	20:08
lardman	assuming one is standing still on the ground, why not?	20:08
ShadowJK	yeah	20:09
ShadowJK	but not determine which way you're pointing	20:09
DocScrutinizer	camera antishake is done with gyro	20:09
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ShadowJK	like for star gazing	20:09
alterego	ShadowJK: that's why the compass is there.	20:09
lardman	the gyro would need to have its orientation and heading set otherwise anyway	20:09
ShadowJK	compass is slow, inaccurate and prone to interference..	20:09
DocScrutinizer	exactly	20:10
lardman	ok fair enough, so use compass to setup gyros?	20:10
lardman	that would work I suppose	20:10
lardman	afaicr the Galaxy Tab has a gyro, and it doesn't improve the behaviour of the compass that's for sure! :)	20:11
rm_you	hrm, wonder what the status of meego on n900 is now <_<	20:11
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MohammadAG	Not bad - good	20:12
lardman	the whole Meego thing has really put me off, I would like some hardware though and a toolchain that will work with it	20:12
ShadowJK	Yeah, compass, accelerometer to setup gyro. Gyro gives fast response, and can distinguish between acceleration and rotation	20:12
lardman	and thereby some sort of goal and platform on which to work	20:12
GeneralAntilles	What a mess.	20:12
lardman	ShadowJK: ok, would require decent sw to decide how to setup the gyro, but certainly doable	20:13
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DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: eh?	20:14
rm_you	Meego seems like it is moving super slowly and i'm not really sure what their real goal is, they've generalized so much, will it work RIGHT for any platform? >_>	20:14
GeneralAntilles	MeeGo	20:14
lardman	GAN900: yeah, not the ideal way to try to get your developer community doing anything imho	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Unsurprising, though.	20:14
DocScrutinizer	rm_you: quite to the point, yes	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Intel only knows how to deal with OEMs.	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Nokia is thrashing itself to death.	20:14
lardman	rm_you: exactly, almost as if they have withdrawn into OEM only mode	20:14
rm_you	yeah i was very disappointed by the the state of meego when they first announced it, and nothing has really changed my mind	20:14
rm_you	you'd think if they really wanted a community to support it, they would have done some sprints to get it functioning properly and usably on n900 or SOME hardware ASAP	20:15
rm_you	by now, no one really cares anymore	20:15
DocScrutinizer	indeed, except alterego	20:16
lardman	well the N900 is pretty old and slow now, so that is part of the issue	20:16
lardman	certainly not shiny and new	20:16
rm_you	pft, old and slow? :P still pretty good compared to many handsets	20:16
rm_you	only things that beat it are the really new fancy ones, but they're not THAT much faster	20:16
lardman	hmm, clock is slow, it's a brick too	20:16
GeneralAntilles	Still my main.	20:16
lardman	I do love it still, but times have changed	20:16
lardman	still mine tpp	20:17
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rm_you	yeah	20:17
lardman	too	20:17
DocScrutinizer	lardman: if your system can't get to work properly on "old" hw like N900, then you got some fundamental problems	20:17
rm_you	still using it as my main :P	20:17
rm_you	i'd put n900 "middle of the road" for the current gen	20:17
lardman	DocScrutinizer: certainly, just thinking about the appeal of writing sw for something	20:17
lardman	rm_you: for smartphones?	20:17
rm_you	yes	20:17
lardman	hmm, clock is quite low for current day	20:18
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, you have to keep up with competitors in the end	20:18
MohammadAG	people like eye candy, the N900 can't do a lot of stuff people want in that field	20:18
MohammadAG	and MeeGo seems to add a lot of it	20:18
DocScrutinizer	who's competitor to meego-arm?	20:18
MohammadAG	to Nokia	20:18
lardman	for me the poor calendar and maps are the major issue, plus slow (if complete) browser	20:20
lardman	oh, and slow connection	20:20
lardman	but other than those it's fine, not too bothered about bling, but I think it should be available to wow people	20:20
GeneralAntilles	I want more RAM.	20:20
nid0	my girlfriend still gets all starry-eyed by gasballs on the n900	20:20
lardman	screen size does it no favours too	20:21
pupnik_	gasballs ?	20:22
nid0	pupnik_: http://store.ovi.com/content/51436 - A visual demo thing nokia released quite a while ago	20:23
lardman	ah the dreaded Ovi store	20:23
rm_you	i never got my Ovi store working :/	20:23
lardman	:)	20:23
lardman	nor did I, other than manually through HAM, and I try not to use HAM as I'm sure you'll all agree	20:23
lardman	Nice work on the CSU though, I've not used the camera for ages and did so today and found some random distance numbers on the screen	20:25
lardman	not sure what they do, but they looked nice	20:25
rm_you	lolol	20:26
DocScrutinizer	useless autofocus thing	20:26
derf	Useless?	20:26
derf	mbarcode really needed some autofocus.	20:26
rm_you	ooo how is mbarcode doing	20:27
DocScrutinizer	but no random numbers telling you... what?	20:27
rm_you	last version of that i had was the version i built for n800 with the onboard UPC database :P	20:27
SpeedEvil	mbarcode now doesn't crash for me on n900 - which is nic e- I just now need to work out how to get it to spit out barcodes to a named pipe, or a file.	20:28
SpeedEvil	or dbus	20:28
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MohammadAG	<lardman> not sure what they do, but they looked nice	20:34
MohammadAG	distance from focused object	20:34
pupnik_	can i use it to make a shoping list and track prices?	20:36
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RST38h	http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/05/ron-paul-suggests-basic-freedoms-come-second-to-property-rights/	20:39
alterego	MohammadAG: my QML based dialer will be in the handset images for N900 DE starting from tomorrow ;)	20:41
MohammadAG	alterego, non-trolling question, how much ram does it take?	20:42
alterego	No idea	20:42
* alterego checks		20:42
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, what's your point?	20:42
MohammadAG	alterego, another thing, slide to answer? pwease?	20:42
alterego	16.9% when not shown.	20:43
MohammadAG	wtf	20:43
alterego	15% when shown	20:43
MohammadAG	so 16.9% of RAM when it's not being used?	20:43
MohammadAG	damn that's a lot :/	20:43
* alterego chuckles.		20:43
alterego	Yeah, gonna need to look into that.	20:43
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MohammadAG	you can't	20:43
MohammadAG	it's QML :P	20:43
alterego	It's QML+MTF actually	20:44
alterego	And a load of other shit that isn't really needed.	20:44
alterego	I imagine it could be streamlined a bit more, but that's quite typical for QML really.	20:44
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: (distance from focused object) would need some proper calibrating and compensation for a number of factors. It's just the current sent to an electromagnet moving the lens against some sping	20:46
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: so the conversation of this electric current value to some proper distance numbers needs quite some bits of mangling, probably even including device orientation relative to earth g	20:49
pupnik_	http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/05/ron-paul-suggests-basic-freedoms-depend-on-property-rights/ RST38h	20:49
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pupnik_	nothing new about that really	20:50
RST38h	heh	20:50
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MohammadAG	alterego, a reason I hate QML tbh	20:55
MohammadAG	my mediaplayer's entraintainment view doubles ram usage	20:55
MohammadAG	that's why it's not there by default	20:55
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, no idea, it's a number returned by digicam (the backend)	20:56
Treibholz	good bye guys! I switched to android...	20:56
Treibholz	with a heavy heart...	20:56
MohammadAG	You'll be back	20:56
MohammadAG	Eventually	20:56
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: yeah, and to there from v4l2 or sth	20:56
Treibholz	MohammadAG: I won't sell the n900! :-)	20:56
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: nevertheless aiui it's not calibrated anywhere	20:57
Treibholz	it will stay on my desk until I find something usefull, I can do with it.	20:57
MohammadAG	Treibholz, see? You're already back	20:58
trx	lol	20:58
DocScrutinizer	Treibholz: If you haven't managed to find anything by now, odds are it's definitely the wrong device/OS/concept for you and there'll be nothing any more exciting in the future	20:58
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Treibholz	DocScrutinizer: the Maemo Concept was great, it's just dead.	20:59
DocScrutinizer	oh? mine is pretty fine and alive here	21:00
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DocScrutinizer	and the basic idea of having the option to port basically arbitrary linux stuff to my pocket computer still delivers	21:02
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Treibholz	DocScrutinizer: Oh, my old Palm Vx is still working, too.	21:02
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DocScrutinizer	moot point	21:04
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trx	is there any good MySQL "explorer" on n900?	21:05
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DocScrutinizer	some weeks ago there's been a major new version of opera, and yesterday I updated marble	21:06
RST38h	Funny: http://www.concept-phones.com/	21:08
DocScrutinizer	rather depressing	21:12
DocScrutinizer	trx: maybe openoffice	21:13
DocScrutinizer	or any of the things that pop up on packet searck for "mysql"	21:13
trx	DocScrutinizer searched packages, no results	21:14
trx	(proper results)	21:14
trx	its actually a good news	21:14
trx	i'm gonna write one :)	21:14
DocScrutinizer	tbh I don't know of any mysql explorer, no matter on which platform	21:14
lardman	sorry, was cooking	21:15
chx	DocScrutinizer: http://www.arabic-ps.com/?q=node/8 ?	21:15
lardman	rm_you: mbarcode, doing ok, though on a break as it's been my end of year review time, so lots on at work	21:15
trx	DocScrutinizer PhpMyAdmin is really good, but web based..	21:16
lardman	the thought of new hw is making me think of addressing various bugs though	21:16
GeneralAntilles	I hate that 5400RPM drives have had a resurgence.	21:16
DocScrutinizer	trx: what's "web based"?	21:16
lardman	MohammadAG: I assumed as much (re autofocus distance) though it wasn't the right number and didn't change (probably in macro mode I guess)	21:16
GeneralAntilles	I keep seeing them on Slickdeals and thinking they're real drives.	21:16
trx	DocScrutinizer its written in php, so you need a http server running	21:16
DocScrutinizer	well, there seems to be a few to run on maemo ;-D	21:17
lardman	pupnik_: re shopping lists, not quite, though it would be very easy to do, but I need to make it so	21:17
* lardman heads back to the kitchen bbl		21:17
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piggz	alterego: awesome....will it accept calls without the dialler running?	21:20
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DocScrutinizer	(<alterego> I imagine it could be streamlined a bit more, but that's quite typical for QML really.) I think that's typical for current "generation" of embedded developers and projects at large. Nobody cares about lean code and performance, everybody jumps on the "it's so OO and cross-platform" train	21:30
DocScrutinizer	even qtmob demonstrating an amazing ignorance when it comes to system architecture details taking into account the real target platform	21:31
RST38h	Doc <-- riding his favorite horse again =)	21:31
DocScrutinizer	sure	21:31
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RST38h	Doc: Lemme throw a bit more wood onto the fire....	21:32
RST38h	Doc: http://www.concept-phones.com/	21:32
RST38h	Sorry, this link: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/08/25/improving-the-string-performance-with-more-simd-or-not/	21:33
GeneralAntilles	RST38h: I'm bored.	21:33
DocScrutinizer	naaaah, not this again	21:33
RST38h	Doc: sorry it was stuck in my paste buffer, use the second one	21:33
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DocScrutinizer	oh, and that one doesn't look any better	21:33
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DocScrutinizer	tales from the land of trolls and fools	21:34
RST38h	Doc: I mean, haven't people finished optimizing string.h contents 10-15 years ago?	21:34
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DocScrutinizer	you dunno qstrings :-P	21:38
DocScrutinizer	where every char is an object	21:38
RST38h	noooo...can't be	21:38
DocScrutinizer	no kidding	21:38
alterego	It's not that inefficient though	21:39
alterego	Not really.	21:39
alterego	And a QChar isn't realy an object so to speak ..	21:39
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alterego	At least, not a QObject	21:39
DocScrutinizer	just that a Qtextedit box has an overhead of textsize * 1000 to *10000	21:39
RST38h	I do suspect that sizeof(QChar) is 1	21:40
alterego	Why?	21:40
RST38h	anyone willing to check?	21:40
DocScrutinizer	err, 100 to 1000	21:40
alterego	It just needs to load the vtable once.	21:40
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alterego	A string and a character are still the size they would otherwise be.	21:40
RST38h	aha	21:40
alterego	(in memory)	21:40
DocScrutinizer	and funny enough I've seen this gorgeous amount of used RAM just doubling on closing(!!) of that Qtestedit box	21:41
alterego	How do you know the memory is to do with the string and not the widget itself?	21:42
DocScrutinizer	I don't	21:42
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SpeedEvil	I was today amused at NXP - pushing 'an enhanced 32-bit RISC processor featuring improved coding efficiency and up to 32MIPs performance, a fully compliant 2.4GHz IEEE802.15.4 transceiver, 128kB of ROM and 128kB of RAM'. As the one computer per light-bulb solution.	21:43
DocScrutinizer	just know opening logs in twinkle is a friggin poor idea, when you got a logfile of ~1MB like I do	21:44
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RST38h	Doc: I do suspect it is mostly for rich text annotation	21:44
RST38h	still would not requirethat much ram though	21:44
DocScrutinizer	yep	21:44
DocScrutinizer	I'd be amazed if a QString can't hold richtext as well	21:45
RST38h	Speed: Got an email from someone who wanted to run VGB on the NXP chip today	21:45
RST38h	Doc: Why not ask at #meego? Maybe they can tell you why?	21:45
SpeedEvil	RST38h: VGB?	21:46
alterego	Gameboy emulator	21:46
pupnik_	Wow RST38h thanks for that link, the comments are an education for me	21:46
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: here are some pics that kind of see what I saw: http://thehandheldblog.com/2011/05/17/nokia-n9-n950-meego-nseries-teaser-leaked/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MaemoCentral+%28The+Handheld+Blog%29	21:52
alterego	Ignore the guys comments though, he's doing a fair amount of guess work in there ..	21:52
* slonopotamus compiled 2.6.38 openwrt kernel for n800... time to try it		21:53
RST38h	yeah	21:55
Sicelo_	~nda	21:57
infobot	I'm not allowed to tell you	21:57
Sicelo_	lol	21:57
RST38h	~lol	21:57
infobot	well, lol is stands for Laughs Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.	21:57
AcTiVaTe	I have been unable to connect to Facebook chat on my N900. Did anything change that caused it to stop working or is my install just fubar?	21:57
DocScrutinizer	alterego: for all I know it could be a photoshopped hoax made from http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277338 and a few other sources	21:57
alterego	DocScrutinizer: they are all stills from the video	21:58
DocScrutinizer	I meant the video	21:58
alterego	Oh right	21:58
alterego	Yes, that is certainly a possibility, I find it quite unlikely.	21:58
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alterego	The models actually look very similar really. Though those leaked photos you just linked to do look like they're a prototype rather than the more refined design pictured in the video.	22:00
GeneralAntilles	Good lord what sort of odious pedant wrote that factoid. . . .	22:00
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo lol	22:01
infobot	lol -- last modified at Tue Aug 31 04:12:29 2004 by mentor!~matthew@mentor.registered; it has been requested 163 times, last by RST38h, 4m 1s ago; it has been locked by mentor.	22:01
DocScrutinizer	mentor HAHA LOL	22:01
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DocScrutinizer	nomen est omen ;-D	22:02
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rm_you	GeneralAntilles: so you'll be at the meego conf?	22:02
DocScrutinizer	o/	22:03
* AcTiVaTe wonders if anyone even uses FB chat on their N900...		22:04
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alterego	GAN900: will you be joining the rest of us running N900 Developer Edition?	22:04
rm_you	AcTiVaTe: not really :?	22:05
alterego	I do actually,	22:05
rm_you	AcTiVaTe: i had problems once a while back, doing an apt-get upgrade fixed it	22:05
rm_you	there was some lib that got held back from the application manager upgrade, had to force it	22:05
GeneralAntilles	alterego: if it's not shit.	22:05
GeneralAntilles	rm_you: yes.	22:06
AcTiVaTe	Perhaps that's my prob, I did a reflash recently and then a restore which already caused more probs. Such as the rtcom event db that I had to let recreate	22:06
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alterego	GeneralAntilles: well, that depends what you mean, it's obviously not as feature full as Maemo, but it works quite nicely as is, making calls, receiving calls, sms etc.	22:06
alterego	Haven't really used the calendar yet.	22:06
GeneralAntilles	I need working XChat, working GTalk/AIM, working FBReader, working browser, working SMS and working call.	22:07
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GeneralAntilles	and I don't feel like spending a week making that happen. :P	22:07
alterego	Not likely then :)	22:07
alterego	Don't you have a second N900?	22:07
GeneralAntilles	One has a borken USB, the other is water damaged.	22:08
alterego	Hah	22:08
alterego	None are under warranty?	22:08
* alterego got one replaced last week		22:08
rm_you	heh i had three n900s at one point	22:08
GeneralAntilles	The USB one is a proto, the water one is, but I haven't worked myself up to sending it in yet.	22:09
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rm_you	one with broken USB and one that had some serious hardware issue, possibly bad RAM	22:09
alterego	You should put in the number for the water damaged one, and send in the usb one.	22:09
alterego	They wont check IMEI	22:09
GeneralAntilles	My DDP device is currently on loan to a friend.	22:09
alterego	And they wont repair water damage for free.	22:09
GeneralAntilles	The proto says "Property of Nokia" on the inside.	22:09
alterego	Hah	22:09
rm_you	lol	22:09
alterego	Okay :P	22:10
GeneralAntilles	It wasn't a lot of water.	22:10
GeneralAntilles	It was just the perfect amount to short out something important.	22:10
alterego	Have you tried asking for another one? :P	22:10
GeneralAntilles	I've got a working one.	22:10
GeneralAntilles	So, no.	22:10
alterego	:)	22:10
alterego	Well, I've got a spare spare, if you needed one	22:10
GeneralAntilles	Nah, I've got one in good shape, so I'm OK.	22:10
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alterego	I could stare at the MeeGo orientation transition for hours	22:11
alterego	So silky smooth ..	22:12
RST38h	http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/17/intel-promises-smartphones-in-first-part-of-next-year-we-put/	22:12
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yigal	I want to install Angry Birds, I tried out the Chrome version recently and realized I could easily waste 3 minutes/day playing this game	22:14
rm_you	rofl	22:14
rm_you	" Intel blamed its partnership with Nokia, calling it a mistake. "In hindsight, Nokia was the wrong partner to have picked," said Otellini"	22:14
GeneralAntilles	Like Intel's any better than Nokia.	22:14
GeneralAntilles	Both of them are amazingly incompetent.	22:14
yigal	hey guys here is the GMA 500	22:14
yigal	it will never really work very well for you, ya we're Intel	22:14
rm_you	i need to check that thing i signed for nokia a while back	22:14
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rm_you	i think it said i wasn't allowed to say anything negative about them for several years...	22:14
yigal	WOW!	22:15
alterego	Heh	22:15
alterego	Yes, the normal Nokia agreement ;)	22:15
alterego	I wouldn't take that _too_ seriously tbh	22:15
yigal	just state the facts	22:15
rm_you	lol	22:15
alterego	"You are not allowed to state the facts, if the facts make us look bad"	22:16
alterego	Nope, can't do that either :P	22:16
yigal	:D, well that was expected	22:16
yigal	how many years is this supposed to go on?	22:16
alterego	infinity	22:17
rm_you	dunno, that's what i was gonna check :P	22:17
alterego	rm_you: that was the thing you signed to get the device in Amsterdam right?	22:17
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rm_you	no	22:20
alterego	Actually wasn't one of the clauses you weren't allowed to talk about it?	22:20
alterego	Oh, sounds like that one.	22:20
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rm_you	"I will not during the Term give any interview, provide any information or make any statement, whether in writing or orally, to any person, television company, radio station, newspaper, magazine or other media organisation, website or internet service which is or can be construed as being defamatory, derogatory or disparaging of W+K, the Client, its affiliates or employees or otherwise likely to adversely affect the commercial use of my Co	22:20
rm_you	ntent;"	22:20
rm_you	the Client = Nokia	22:21
rm_you	the Term = 50 years	22:21
rm_you	rofl	22:21
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SpeedEvil	A _50_ year NDA?	22:23
SpeedEvil	Wow.	22:23
SpeedEvil	You can however freely express your views on the product by Mime, interpretive dance, art, sculpture, ...	22:25
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kerio	how do you mime nokia?	22:27
kerio	shake your hand?	22:27
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yigal	is Ovi store open right now, and can I download Angry Birds somehow from it - I've never actually used Ovi store, never thought it would amount to much, self fulfilling prophecy perhaps	22:28
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alterego	Heh	22:32
alterego	rm_you: is it "50 years or if we sink, whatever comes first" ;)	22:32
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rm_you	i suppose :P	22:39
lardman	just seeing what I missed when I dropped out	22:40
lardman	I sent off a "Property of Nokia" N900 for a warranty screen fix and got some strange reactions	22:41
lardman	they seemed to think I'd nicked the thing	22:41
lardman	never sent it back to me of course	22:41
yigal	lol	22:42
ds3	speaking of screen nicks, is the touch panel surface considered part of the case (for the purposes of looking at replacement parts)?	22:42
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yigal	anyone using natively compiled texlive for TeXing?	22:47
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yigal	ah well had to change the general.useragent.override back to the original to get my Angry Birds, yay man I'm so behind the times	22:55
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dRbiG	grr, witter left the led blinking blue - can I somehow kill that without resetting the whole device?	23:29
dRbiG	hmm	23:30
dRbiG	done	23:34
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mece	I guess you can :D	23:39
piggz	space invaders 0.3 uploaded to extras-devel, now with global hi scores, so, get competing!	23:47
piggz	:)	23:48
RST38h	yooooo	23:48
piggz	and, please dont break the minor security i added to prevent fraudulent scores...im not running the playstation network!	23:50
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Gh0sty	hmm fraudulent scores ^^	23:53
RST38h	Now, once you have said that.... =B)~	23:53
Gh0sty	wonder what would be the hardest ... beating the game or beating your coode :p	23:53
piggz	i suspect it would be harder to break the code if it wasnt open source!	23:54
RST38h	Ah holy fuck: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8512408/Roswell-was-Soviet-plot-to-create-US-panic.html	23:54
ruskie	tcpdump works well ;)	23:54
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GeneralAntilles	http://skysurvey.org/	23:57
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