IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-05-17

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geaaruhi, how can i turn off keyboard led when i'm on r&d mode? thanks in advance00:18
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SpeedEvilWhy do you think you want R&D mode?00:20
geaaruto see boot menu at startup and choice boot from sd or boot from flash00:21
geaaruwhy with r&d led must be turn on all time ? i don't understand this. :)00:22
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SpeedEvilSomewhat random. _ages_ ago, I got a BT VOIP box-thing. I still have it. Do BT still do a BOIP solution - SIP - I can't seem to find it on their website, I may be using the wrong keywords.00:31
thopiekarwanna buy a N900 on ebay which isn't working (thats what the seller says). he said that he can'T turn it on.. it is just vibrating.. he hasn't said anything about what he can see on the display.. is that fixable via flashing?00:31
SpeedEvilIt's not impossible it might be.00:32
SpeedEvilCould also be hardware fail.00:32
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Sicelo_how much is this thopiekar ?00:38
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thopiekarSpeedEvil: k00:38
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: search for 3GN, NGN, or sth like that00:39
DocScrutinizer51SIP in disguise00:39
thopiekarSicelo_: in Germany:
thopiekarI really would like to get one..00:39
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thopiekarI also would like to add software, even console applications from Ubuntu as I did for diablo00:40
thopiekarstreamripper for example00:40
thopiekarand so on..00:40
Sicelo_best wishes buddy :)00:43
Macerwhat is that?00:44
Macerthopiekar: what is that thing?00:44
thopiekarMacer: what? streamripper? a internet radio recorder..00:45
thopiekarcheck sourceforge00:45
Macerthe ebay page you showed with the n900 lying on a suitcase heh00:45
Maceris the n900 the detonator00:45
Macerit was in ze german??C00:46
Macerwish i could figure out how to get these su8w special keys to work00:46
Macerlike the email and menu key. that would be cool00:46
Macermaybe later i will capture the codes and see if i can map them to something00:46
thopiekarhuh? I did get what you mean.. which keys? is something wrong with that device?00:47
Macerno... i finally got it working correctly00:47
Macerit can even type with the qwerty closed now :) but it has symbian special keys00:47
Macerlike the email key and the menu key00:47
Maceralso a left middle and right key... keys that you would normally use on an n9500:48
Maceri would love to figure out a way to map the menu key to the actual maemo5 menu00:48
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Macerwhere it would be like tapping the upper left corner00:49
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thopiekarhas the N900 the application xev?00:49
thopiekarit would show you how the button is called that is pressed..00:49
Macerdon't know.. haven't looked into it much other than getting the mappings right and setting up bt hid on it00:49
Maceri'm actually using it right now for irc .. it's great00:50
Macercan't wait to just use abiword on my n900 instead of lugging around a laptop00:50
Maceri wish there was a full blown openoffice for it... that would be awesome too.. or cups support00:50
thopiekarif you know how the key is called you could use xbindkeys to do the trick..00:50
Macerif i could print from this thing i would ejaculate00:50
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Maceryeah... i will work on that later.. right now i am just happy it works at all and very well i might say00:51
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thopiekarlets say getting the menu is a dbus function, you could bind the menu key to the dbus signal00:51
thopiekardo it ;)00:52
Maceri need to find out how it is called though coming from the keyboard00:52
Sicelo_iirc, there's been some kind of success in printing from n900. check tmo00:52
Macerlol. i don't even know where to start thopiekar00:52
Macerbut right now i need to sleep. i work tonight00:52
thopiekarif you are lucky and I'll  get a N900 you can expect Ill work on such tweaks :P00:52
Macerlmao.. are you getting one?00:52
thopiekarMacer: see yaaaa00:52
Macerthey're still pretty expensive00:52
Maceri guess supply issues?00:52
thopiekarMacer: can't get one for a low price atm00:53
thopiekarno money issues00:53
Maceryeah. they are rather expensive but honestly i think they will go up later if meego actually gets going on it00:53
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Macerwhich is honestly doubtful that will happen any time soon but wishful thinking00:53
Maceri think so.. lots of people might want to suck one up if meego doesn't totally suck00:54
thopiekarhopefull not such a wishful thinking like N8x0's will get their §D driver00:54
Macerhow is maemo development lately? i know they released the cssu stuff00:54
Maceryeah that one will never happen either00:54
Macermy n810 is just sitting on my desk collecting dust00:54
Maceri am going to use it for carman00:54
thopiekarI use my N800 for music in my car00:55
thopiekarme too00:55
Maceri have the obd2 bt transmitter00:55
Maceri need the window mount for it :)00:55
thopiekarbought for it also a transmitter > 20€ from china00:55
thopiekargot one..00:55
Macermine was around 5000:55
Maceri thought the pidgen friend tracking was kind of neat00:55
Maceri'm not sure how well carman has been developed lately00:56
Macerbut it seems like one of the better reasons to have an n81000:56
thopiekarcarman has many missing features..00:56
Macerwell.. it gives you check engine status00:56
Macerwhich is more than most.. :)00:56
thopiekartested another app for my N95... it was able to read many more values00:56
Macerah was it?00:57
Macerso it is missing sensor information from the obd2 port?00:57
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thopiekari think00:57
Macerthere is no carman for n900 is there?00:58
thopiekarcarman is just using the minimal info from ODB00:58
thopiekarthere is as far as I know00:58
DocScrutinizer51duh, canbus?00:58
Macerit gets check engine codes for you00:58
Macerdoesnt it get a description of the code as well?00:58
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thopiekarcarman isn't even checking which data is available.. the app on my N95 checks the data and tells ok can view you the following..00:59
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DocScrutinizer51~wiki canbus00:59
thopiekarcarman can't it just visualizes the data.. and if not available value=000:59
thopiekarstupid app00:59
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Controller–area network' ('CAN' or 'CAN-bus') is a vehicle bus standard designed to allow microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each other within a vehicle without a host computer. CAN is a message-based protocol, designed specifically for automotive applications but now also used in other areas such as industrial automation and medical equipment. Development of the ...00:59
thopiekarthats why I'm coding my own OBD system now01:00
Macerheh... but carman lets you track your buddy that you are racing down the highway01:00
thopiekara mix of Carman, Canola and Meego IVI01:00
thopiekarnavit can do it, too01:00
Macernavit does obd?01:01
thopiekarthe menu from Meego IVI and plugin'able UI01:01
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thopiekarwritten in PyQt01:01
thopiekarnavit can track other people..01:01
Macerheh.. that wou.d be good if meego worked01:02
thopiekarjust need to setup their GPS rfcomm as UDP-Server01:02
thopiekarin navit01:02
Macerdid meego get the gps working?01:02
Maceri thought the gps and cams were still a no go01:02
Maceras is voice calling01:02
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thopiekarwhy it code my own application I'll take care on os-independency.. it should work at the end on every os.. windows, linux and hopefully mac but haven'T got one so can't check01:03
thopiekark, need to get some sleep as well, Macer01:04
thopiekarsee you soon01:04
thopiekarit's 00:04 here01:04
DocScrutinizer51voice calling on SHR is almost working01:05
DocScrutinizer51partially working actually01:05
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DocScrutinizer51and they're implementing my alsa based PA killer \o/01:11
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merlin1991"PA killer" ?01:13
DocScrutinizer51the living proof ALSA is better than PA01:13
* merlin1991 realizes PA is pulseaudio01:14
DocScrutinizer51or polypaudio (no kidding)01:15
merlin1991I don't know much about pa vs alsa, only that everyone seems to be bashing pa, but what's the actuall drawback of pa, the system itself or the implementation?01:16
DocScrutinizer51the idea why it's done, how it's done, and who done it01:17
DocScrutinizer51a typical NIH thing01:18
infobotnih is, like, \"Not Invented Here\" - a syndrome often suffered by developers and companies who tend to reinvent the wheel for no reason other than being able to put their name on it.01:18
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DocScrutinizer51PA claimed to be the inevitable improvement on ALSA, doing everything better. In fact they attributed problems to ALSA that were never existing, caused by pebkac, or simple to fix. Then their friggin implementation had exactly the problems they attributed to ALSA, just worse. Plus they shoved that shit down everybody's throat and en passant broke working ALSA systems by not providing a properly workng compatibility layer01:27
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DocScrutinizer51but the worst been the spreading of lies about ALSA - like 'alsa doesn't support per-app volume', 'alsa has no mixing' and similar BS01:31
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DocScrutinizer51in fact probably ALSA is more versatile than PA even today, and one thing's evident: PA still needs ALSA to work at all, while ALSA doesn't need PA for anyrhing (except audio over ethernet)01:36
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rdvonzProbably not the right place to ask this, but I just dug up my old n810 out of my drawer. Of course its taken apart (because the charger wasn't working) and the back side of the device is nowhere to be found! Anyways, my question is this: does anyone have a spare n810 they would mind selling for parts?01:59
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* DocScrutinizer should send Lennart Poettering a copy of the nice Openmoko lis302dl.ko driver source. Best with GPL and (C) removed. Sure bet for getting it into linus kernel after 3 months, and kick out the braindead lis3lv02.ko joystick driver02:27
DocScrutinizerbut, wait... Lennart never hyped and pushed anything tha looked nice. So probably that plan will fail epically02:28
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merlin1991meet DocScrutinizer the seasoned zynic ;)02:31
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: I tuned my ALSA for like 6 years to get an absolutely charming system working with concurrent audio, no latency, excellent quality and compatible to all apps no matter whether OSS, ARTS, ALSA...  Then came PukeAudio and all distros' audio subsystem got fscj02:47
DocScrutinizerwhat do you think I feel about PA and Lennart02:48
merlin1991love him like your son?02:48
merlin1991btw I didn't get oss apps to run properly on a crappy soundcard on pretty basic ubuntu02:49
merlin1991unless I used preload hacks to load alsa symbols into them :P02:49
DocScrutinizerno wonder, buntkuh is using PA02:49
DocScrutinizerdid I mention PA doesn't care about working bugfree compatibility layers?02:49
DocScrutinizeryou should feel happy the buntkuh PA crap was gracious enough to let your app work with ALSA-OSS compatibility layer02:51
merlin1991wasn't alsa-oss02:52
merlin1991actual ld_preload to replace oss calls with alsa calls in the app binarly02:52
DocScrutinizerduh? no ld_preload aoss ?02:52
merlin1991for some reason even that didn't work :P02:53
DocScrutinizeraoss works usually flawlessly, on ALSA machines02:53
DocScrutinizerwell, replacing oss by alsa janus stubs via ld_preload is exactly what aoss is doing02:54
merlin1991the aoss stuff shipped with ubuntu didn't work02:54
merlin1991then again, ubuntu :P02:54
DocScrutinizer  LD_P  LD_PRELOAD=${exec_prefix}/\$LIB/${LD_PRELOAD:+:$LD_PRELOAD} exec "$@"RELOAD=${exec_prefix}/\$LIB/${LD_PRELOAD:+:$LD_PRELOAD} exec "$@"02:55
DocScrutinizer  LD_PRELOAD=${exec_prefix}/\$LIB/${LD_PRELOAD:+:$LD_PRELOAD} exec "$@"02:55
DocScrutinizercat /usr/bin/aoss02:56
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DocScrutinizerthe same shit shipped with PA for converting ALSA calls to PA doesn't work at all, and Lennart doesn't care (actually he can not fix it, as ALSA is way more versatile than PA, so some more exotic calls to ALSA can't get maped to PA API)02:59
DocScrutinizerso now users bitch and whine at all devels of formerly perfectly working (with ALSA) audio apps, to get PA support into those apps as the ALSA interface ceased to work with contemporary PA based distros03:01
merlin1991is debian pa based?03:02
DocScrutinizerjudging by maemo, I'd say yes03:02
DocScrutinizernot even Nokia is mad enough to opt in deliberately for PA, esp on an embedded device03:03
SpeedEvilI question that.03:06
SpeedEvilThe software in sseveral aspects doens't seem to have been designed taking an embedded perspective.03:06
DocScrutinizerI'm already asking "who said that?"03:06
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that's quite obvious. The question is why we got it on maemo nevertheless03:07
* DocScrutinizer wonders what it is that Lennart got to convince everybody to adopt his BS. Sexy? mountains of money to bribe? Brutal? Just unbearable for longer than 5 min? yeah that's it :-P03:09
DocScrutinizerI watched a livestream of CCC last xmas, with ~180s of Lennart. I'm sure it's been tha last point that allowed him to push PA into every distro he found03:11
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mer_gemy firefox 4.0 doesn't update to 4.0.1 automatically. I use
mer_gewhat's the right way to install firefox from the latest-beta repo?03:13
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megomaniakwho in here still has the n900?04:01
SpeedEvilThe vast majority of peeps here I imagine.04:01
SpeedEvilmegomaniak: Because it's basically the only openish linux phone.04:01
megomaniakwhy is that important?04:02
SpeedEvilAlso, because I bought one, and it's not died yet, and I like it.04:02
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SpeedEvilBecause I find it useful to me to be able to do some things that are tricky with other phones.04:02
megomaniaki bought mine in Dec 2009 and the usb on broke04:02
SpeedEvilWhere are you?04:03
megomaniakright now UK04:03
SpeedEvilIf it was bought in the EU, it's still under warranty.04:03
* ShadowJK has two, pessimistic about any other usable phones arriving anytime soon04:03
SpeedEvilAnd you can ebay it once fixed if you don't want it.04:03
cehtehwhat other phone can run emacs? :)04:03
megomaniaki called nokia and they basically told me to f-off04:04
SpeedEvilmegomaniak: Where was the phone bought?04:04
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SpeedEvilAh - US warranty sucks. :/04:04
megomaniakSpeedEvil - yes it does04:04
megomaniakis the maemo OS dead?04:05
DocScrutinizerwell, seems SpeedEvil , ShadowJK and me all have 204:05
ShadowJKIn the US, retail stores and chains prefers shorter manufacturer warranties. They make lots of money on selling overpriced insurance, and there's no consumer protection laws regarding expected lifetimes04:05
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SpeedEvilFor example.04:06
megomaniaki see04:06
SpeedEvilmegomaniak: Maemo is dead - long-live meego. Sort-of.04:06
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infobotmsg from chanop: pupnik, please stay on topic and DO NOT INSULT OR GO XXX, this isn't #politics and (usually) a worksafe chan04:06
megomaniakyeah but meego is POS04:07
megomaniaknobody interested in it04:07
SpeedEvilThere has been no(?) meego device.04:07
SpeedEvilNokia has committed to releasing one meego device.04:07
megomaniaki heard today that LG device is POS04:07
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pupnikit will be hard for meego to win me over04:11
DocScrutinizerso maybe give SHR a try eventually, they just finish call voice audio04:11
SpeedEvilSHR would be good.04:12
DocScrutinizerhehe, I bitched enough there04:12
* ShadowJK wonders where they're at with Nokia's "MeeGo-related device", is LF going to let them call it MeeGo?04:12
SpeedEvilWho knows.04:13
DocScrutinizerheard rumours of giveaway develdevs on next event04:13
ShadowJKWhat does SHR consist of?04:14
DocScrutinizermight be about time, esp since they got no proper schematics review from a professional skeptic scrutinizer04:15
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: how to answer that?04:16
pupnikThis is the Central Scrutinizer... It is my job to enforce the laws that haven't been passed yet.04:17
DocScrutinizerthe white zone is for loading and unloading only04:17
* ShadowJK also heard that rumour that devel devices can't interoperate with Ovi^WNokia Store and other services, and if you do anything remotely interesting straying outside the straighjacket/sandbox your device gets permanently "downgraded" to devel device04:18
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, X, no X, gtk/something else, etx04:19
DocScrutinizerE, X, FSO, up-to-date kernel04:19
pupnik's_Garage  never realized it had so much background to it04:20
ShadowJKE? :-)04:20
DocScrutinizerenlightenment, edjie, e* whatever04:21
ShadowJKyeah it just surprised me04:21
ShadowJKtbh I haven't seen enlightenment since 1999 and my P133 32M ram. It was kinda sluggish04:22
ShadowJKand excessively pretty04:22
DocScrutinizerwell, there has to be a reason Raster was our chief "desktop" developer at OM04:22
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ShadowJKhe was?04:24
DocScrutinizerwas a funny time when we were both at TPE04:25
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Macerenlightenment was pretty good back in the day04:28
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DocScrutinizerit's not getting worse :-D04:31
DocScrutinizera bit dusty, but still...
pupnik"it looks just like a telefunken u-47"04:33
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ShadowJKback then all the cool kids used E04:34
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SpeedEvilNowadays E is not E, it's been replaced with much nastier drugs, with much worse side-effects.04:35
SpeedEvil(though I've not done E)04:35
ShadowJKand enlightenment04:35
* ShadowJK drank coke and ran AfterStep04:35
pupniknice choice04:36
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pupnikit was so fun to read linux magazin back then04:37
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pupniki was giddy that i could buy it at the gas station04:38
DocScrutinizerback in my time Byte was the only magazine you could find in Germany, wit a lot of luck, on the main railway station04:39
DocScrutinizerthen a new epoch started when I spotted the first c't mag there, right next to Byte04:40
merlin1991when did ix come along?04:41
DocScrutinizeromg, laaaater04:41
KilrooCompute's Gazette04:41
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* RST38h still wants an ability to ignore people on tmo, after all that time08:46
RST38habill_uk is a serious source of background noise08:46
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RST38h"Fabrice Bellard, the initiator of the QEMU emulator, wrote a PC emulator in JavaScript. You can now boot Linux in your browser, provided it is recent enough." -- eek08:52
robbiethe1stHeh. We'll have Linux taking over everywhere /except/ the desktop.08:53
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RST38h"No segment limit and right checks when accessing memory (Linux does not rely on them for memory protection, so it is not an issue. The x86 emulator of QEMU has the same restriction)."08:55
* RST38h laughs satanically, whispers "wimp!"08:55
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infobotmsg from chanop: pupnik, please stay on topic and DO NOT INSULT OR GO XXX, this isn't #politics and (usually) a worksafe chan09:30
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mensoifHi, I have a proble with my n900.10:10
mensoifWhen someone calls me, I often hang up, just by taking my phone out of it's case10:10
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mensoifis there a settings that does not unlock the screen when in the case (usin the light sensor)10:12
mensoifor a similar workaround? If I have to unlock the phone manually each time, it's not a big issue for me.10:13
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slonopotamusmensoif: updated to latest maemo release? it improved situation *a bit*10:15
mensoifyes, I even use CSSU10:16
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geaaruhi, is there a way to turn off keyboard led when r&d mode is enable? thanks in advance10:16
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cityLightshaha I got a working program with a UI!10:19
cityLightsso happy, now need to package it10:19
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CokeIs someone here kind enough to check this out and tell me if the GIF at the bottom right is displayed properly.11:19
ruskieany specific browser you would like to have it tested?11:21
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Cokeruskie: the default one on N90011:22
ruskieahh nope... won't be trying to get that url there...11:23
Cokeruskie: I've already concluded that it has some severe bugs, failing on SVG rendering so now I'm checking if the GIF works11:23
CokeIn my browser the GIF is cut off.11:23
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CokeMaking the default N900 browser even more broken than IE711:23
Coke(which is quiet a feat in itself)11:23
ruskieyou sure it's broken?11:24
Cokethe only other person I know (who has access to an N900) isn't using it anymore so no batts and no charger.11:24
Cokeruskie: 99%11:24
Cokeruskie: the rendering behavior is irratic and makes no sense.11:24
ruskie'erratic' and it works just fine here11:25
Cokeruskie: it does?11:25
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Cokeyou see the full round red gif?11:26
Cokewhat version of the built-in browser do you use?11:26
ruskieI opened the page in vimprobable2 as well on my desktop11:26
ruskiethe page looks the same with to diffs11:26
Cokei dont know what vimprobable2 is, I'm talking about the default browser in N90011:26
ruskieyes as am I11:26
Cokehow do I find out what version my browser is?11:27
ruskiedpkg -l | grep microb11:28
ruskieis what I used11:28
Cokei have no pipe char on this keyboard11:28
ruskie20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5 <-- for the microb-engine11:28
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Cokeok I have to go through a monster list of installed packages to find it11:29
ruskieyou don't11:29
ruskiesince you can get the pipe symbol iirc11:29
Cokeok the package is named microb-engine11:29
Cokenothing +-5.2+0m511:30
Cokewhere did you get it?11:30
ruskiemaybe it just got cut off for you since it was a full list11:30
ruskieformating and what not...11:30
ruskiebtw you can get the pipe symbol from the special symbols virtual keyboard11:31
ruskiefun+sym key11:31
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Cokeoh great, bash history still doesnt save??11:32
ruskiewouldn't know11:32
ruskieI use zsh11:32
CokeI'm a bash user11:33
Cokeit has worked for me since early 90's on every platform, even Windows. maemo is the first platform I don't have proper hsitory in bash11:33
Cokeapt-get says ive got the latest microb when I try to update it11:34
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ruskietry dpkg -l | grep microb11:34
Cokethe GIF is cut off in my browser11:34
Cokefun+sym doesnt do anything11:35
Coke(the blue arrow up/right and Sym/ctrl keys)11:35
ruskiethat should display a symbol selection virtual keyboard11:35
Cokeit doesn't.11:36
ruskieatleast when in a terminal or app11:36
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Cokeim in the x terminal11:36
robbiethe1stPress alt(blue arrow), release it,  then ctrl.11:36
Cokethat worked11:36
Cokesimilarly, is there a way to drop out from fullscreen?11:37
ruskiebottom right11:37
Cokeruskie: yep, same version number as you have11:37
ruskieshould be an up arrow thingy or something11:37
Cokeup arrow?11:38
ruskieon the display11:38
ruskiefor fullscreen11:38
Cokeno i meant, sometimes apps take over the phone11:38
Cokei cant get out of the app11:38
ruskiewill get you to the app switcher11:39
Coketapping or simultaneously?11:39
Cokeso... my browser seems to be completely bonkers11:39
ruskiebtw how is it cut off? bottom or right or both???11:40
CokeI've confirmed it to work on FF4, FF3.5, Midori, Safari, iphone, android, IE9 and your N90011:40
ruskienote I don't have flash so if there is any flash content on the site it might cause issues as well11:40
Cokeno flash11:41
Cokeexcept for the GIF I'm using only standards11:41
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Cokewhich sucks bigtime, because the ONLY browser in the world to actually support the standards is Firefox11:41
ruskieopera as well iirc11:41
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Cokeah, havent tried opera11:41
Cokewhaddya know. it even has support for SVG smil11:41
ruskiethe webkit stuff ought to work as well for the most part...11:41
CokeSo add opera to that list11:42
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Cokeruskie: yeah, i thought that about gecko too, but obviously it doesnt in whatever microb is11:43
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ruskiemicrob is gecko11:43
Cokecan't be11:43
ruskieit is11:43
Cokeso why isn't it rendering properly?11:44
ruskie20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5 <-- the version itself is a hint here: 1.9.2 xulrunner version11:44
ruskiemaybe something is badly configured on your device? maybe some extension for it?11:44
Cokeyou mean browser extensinos?11:45
ruskieusing wifi or 3g?11:45
Cokeand 3g11:45
Cokeright now its in wifi mode11:45
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ruskiewell with 3g I would assume some cellco proxy somewhere in between mangling crap for no good reason11:46
CokeI have Flashblock installed11:46
ruskiethat could be an issue11:46
ruskieor adblock11:46
Cokeuh, but theres no flash on my page11:46
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Cokenot using adblock11:46
Cokebesides flashblock i have disabled single sign on and geo location11:46
ruskiesame here11:46
ruskiebut I don't run flashblock11:47
ruskiesimply don't have flash at all11:47
Cokeok, uninstalling flashblock11:47
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ruskieextensions can have adverse effects on rendering11:47
ruskiesince they hook into there11:47
CokeYou were absolutely right.11:48
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CokeWhy the heck would Flashblock even be activated on a page completely void of flash?11:48
ruskieit needs to be active to detect if there is anything flashy on the page11:48
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Cokeruskie: but after detecting nothing, why bother telling the browser how and what to render?11:48
Cokeanyway, thanks a lot ruskie11:49
ruskiethat could be a bug or by design11:49
Cokei dont think I would have ever thought that flashblock would mess up GIFs11:49
ruskieor it could do stuff with gifs just because it can11:49
Cokebut why cut the top 1/3 off?11:49
Cokemakes no sense11:49
CokeIm pretty sure this is indeed a bug in flashblock.11:49
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ruskiepersonally prefered method to get rid of flash is to just remove it11:50
Cokeruskie: mm. I'll consider that.11:50
ruskieI haven't found any sites that I need flash for frankly11:50
Cokeruskie: I'm an avid youtuber11:50
ruskieyoutube-dl for watching youtube stuff11:50
Cokealtho I dont use my phone for anything except a terminal11:50
CokeI found that the mail client is suboptimal and the phone is just to laggy and slow for me to feel productive with it.11:51
CokeThe worst part is: I can't get rid of it. It's the ONLY phone that can do X forwarding which is why I use it for work11:51
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ruskieI just download a pile of youtube stuff using youtube-dl and then watch it when I have time without bothring about a connection etc...11:51
CokeOnce this phone breaks I'll be sent back to 1995, no cellphone11:51
ruskiefor me every mail client outside of alpine is suboptimal11:51
Cokeruskie: Im a mutt fan11:52
ruskiebut ssh helps there to connect to my server11:52
ruskieas for phone... I'm planing on getting a second n900... but when those breaks... I want a simple s40 device for calls11:52
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ruskies40... yeah nokia s4011:53
CokeAh, that one. Yes, there's no phone on the market right now that can actually replace a N90011:53
ruskieI doubt there will ever be one11:53
Cokewhy is the industry and consumers so phukking retarded?11:53
CokeI don't really care that the animations and menus are slow on my N900, at the end of the day it's a very small laptop on which I can do everything from writing budget reports to accessing our production system11:54
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Cokeruskie: how can S40 replace N900? It's a shitty symbian.11:55
CokeSymbian and Winmo are by far the worst creations I have ever had the misfortune of ever having in my target platform list.11:55
Sicelo_s40 is not symbian11:56
ruskieCoke, the thing is I don't need a fancy smartphone11:56
ruskiefor phone I'm happy with a 10 year+ nokia 5110 funcitonality11:56
CokeI see.11:57
CokeS60 is the symbian based one11:57
Cokeruskie: i dont need a smartphone either, but pretty soon thats all youll be able to get11:57
Sicelo_and series 80 & 90, long extinct :P:P11:57
Cokeive got one of them really old ericsons at home11:57
Cokeit nwo has an uptime of some 700 days11:57
CokeTHAT is the type of quality I expect from software. If it means reducing the number of features, than so be it11:58
ruskieI have a bunch of old phones11:58
ruskie5110, 3210, 5140i, n9511:59
CokeTbh, I only use my phone as a small laptop. The only time and place its used as a phone is in the office11:59
chxSeries 80????11:59
CokeI wonder if Intel will ever release morestown11:59
ruskieCoke, I hardly use my n900 other than when I'm not @home or @work12:00
Cokeruskie: I use it as a remote control to my media station at home12:00
ruskieI'd get n8xx for that12:01
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Cokewhat is n8xx ?12:01
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ruskien800 or n81012:02
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Cokeruskie: they can do remote X over SSH too?12:02
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ruskieothers will have to answer that but I thought they had proper X12:03
ruskieafk lunch12:03
CokeMight be an alternative.12:03
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Sicelo_yup Coke, nokia 9500 and it's brothers were series 80. 7710 was only series 9012:04
* Sicelo_ still uses 9300i series 80 nokia, hoping to get n900 soon12:05
RST38h"An Israeli couple inspired by the spawn of Zuckerberg have dubbed their unfortunate daughter "Like", the BBC reports."12:07
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crashanddieIn other news, the BBC reports that people are still stupid. No cure has been found, other than education; even though this has proven a failure in the past already.12:22
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ruskieeducation does not unstupify people12:23
Macersure doesn't12:24
Maceri have seen some pretty stupid smart people out there12:24
ruskieeducation has more to do with knowledge12:24
chxnot. quite.12:24
Macerruskie: education also aids in social interaction12:24
chxgood education esp at a university has more to do with teaching you how to learn12:24
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crashanddieEducation teaches you to think. Intelligence just makes your thinking process faster, or allows you to see links others might not make immediately.12:25
ruskieglad you come from a place where that is true12:25
Macerchx: i always figured early education did that12:25
chxit's called 'university' because it gives you universal knowledge, a certain... attitude i could say?12:25
Macercollege seemed more like spitting out something someone said about something12:25
ruskieI still don't see how craming a bunch of books into my head and then promptly forgetting them after the exam gives me anything12:26
chxit matters less than you'd think whether you get that by studying archeology or programming12:26
Macerwhile having notes on where they said it12:26
RST38hlast ab12:26
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chem|stCoke: for your notice... I tried that svg lately in firefox on windows and got to know that it converts it to png instantly12:29
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Cokechem|st: really? i had it working in my ff on win12:29
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chem|stand your gif is showing fine on microb12:30
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Cokechem|st: yeah it was an addon for blocking Flash12:30
Cokechem|st: it was buggy12:30
Macermaemo ftw12:30
Cokechem|st: anyway, SVG's work just fine in FF on windows12:30
Cokechem|st: if it doesnt for you, I recommend you upgrade to 3.6 or newer12:31
chem|stff on maemo shows too12:31
Maceri don't care how old and outdated it gets.. it works with my bt keyboard :)12:31
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chem|stCoke: 4.x12:31
Macerthere's ff for maemo?12:31
chem|stMacer: yes12:31
Cokechem|st: "shows too" == ?12:31
Cokeshows the SVG with SMIL animations?12:31
Macerit isn't that mobile one that meego is using is it?12:31
chem|stgif in ff on maemo12:31
Maceri can't remember what it is called12:31
chem|stnot cut or anything12:31
Macerit was horrible12:31
Cokechem|st: that is probably because it's SVG animation is disabled, just like on microb12:32
chem|stMacer: it is the fennec12:32
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Cokechem|st: but FF on windows shouldn't have SVG SMIL disabled.12:32
Macerfennec was sooo bad12:32
Macerwhy can't someone make a chromium for maemo :) ?12:32
chem|stand the damn sync plugin isnt working since the last upgrade12:32
Cokechem|st: perhaps you forgot to build it with smil support12:32
Macertear is webkit right?12:32
CokeMacer: why not just have a proper FF build??12:32
Macermeh. webkit is only half of it12:32
MacerCoke: because ff is total bloatware12:32
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Macerit is the non ms alternative to ie12:33
chem|stCoke: as I build anything for windows O_o12:33
Cokechem|st: well, FF 3.6 and newer do work fine with animations on windows12:33
Cokechem|st: so you must have DL'ed a crippled version or maybe not hit refresh? :)12:33
CokeI'm looking at a 3.5, it works too12:34
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chem|stas I said it converts "your" svg to png (didn't check others)12:34
Cokechem|st: it shouldn't convert anything12:34
chem|stCoke: I gave it the direct link to the svg12:35
Cokechem|st: I don't know what to say. I've tried every FF I have for Windows 7, all work fine with SVG's12:35
Cokeyou must have some extension, plugin or setting that disables interactive SVG12:35
chem|stI am on xp maybe thats the difference12:35
Cokechem|st: worked fine on XP too last time I checked.12:36
Cokechem|st: besides, why would Mozilla upstream disable animation events for the XP build explicitly?12:36
CokeMacer: does chromium load and animate this SVG properly?12:36
chem|ston 3.6.17 I get that file info data:image/png;base64...12:37
CokeGecko and Webkit both support it.12:37
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Cokechem|st: you have some messed up setting.12:37
CokeIt's either a GIF or an SVG. If it's converted to PNG it's something local to your browser.12:38
piggzhmmm, thats rootfs is full /12:38
piggz :/12:38
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chem|stpiggz: that's new?12:39
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piggzchem|st: its never been full before, and im in a catch-22 situation, i cant uninstall anything, becuase i need to run dpkg --configure -a first, which cant becuase the filesystem is full12:40
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chem|stpiggz: just move one of the bigger files away like localizations stuff12:42
chem|stpiggz: don't forget to symlink!12:42
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piggzchem|st: where are they kept?12:43
piggz /usr/share?12:43
chem|stone sec12:44
piggz /usr/share/locale is 15mb12:44
piggzthat should do12:44
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chem|stthere was "one" file about 24MB somewhere...12:46
SpeedEvilfind / -mount -size +100000012:46
chem|stpiggz: /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive12:49
piggzchem|st: ta12:50
piggzchem|st: i found the culprit...i had installed libqtm-11-* .... which included all the -dbg packages :)12:52
piggznow have 65mb free on /12:52
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* infobot facepalms at the situation13:04
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chem|stnow I see an animated graphics on his site... it is 4 pngs in a svg container13:05
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auenf4 png's in a svg container sounds like a poor mans mng13:08
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piggzhmmm, why does the N900_PORTRAIT_SENSORS hack not seem to work13:09
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chem|stauenf: he is already considered "noob"13:11
chem|stand spirit is again messing up! the whole device gets unresponsive when logged on to skype13:11
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pupnikRST38h: jim rogers named his daughter 'happy'13:17
piggzis anyone familiar with the N900_PORTRAIT_SENSORS hack ?13:19
piggzsorry, wrong chanel13:19
piggzmeant to be #qt :)13:19
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cehteh   ... works in fennec! :P13:33
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robbiethe1stHm... can we boot Linux inside of Linux booted inside of Linux inside our browser>13:37
cehtehnot yet :P13:37
cehtehthe emulator has only serial console output (connected to a terminal in the browser)13:38
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cehtehwell links2 once had a javascript engine .. but they removed it because it was too buggy13:38
SpeedEvilFabrice Bellard is _so_ awesome.13:38
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cehtehif someone get a browser with javascript working on that :)13:39
robbiethe1stNow, if only it worked in Firefox... I get "Invalid arguement on line 9"13:42
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pupnikwhy SpeedEvil13:43
pupnikoh nm13:43
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Venemogood afternoon guys13:57
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MohammadAGmy LED is blinking red14:04
VenemoMohammadAG, that is the 'error' pattern by default14:04
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chem|stnever got this apart from camera "on"14:05
MohammadAGyes, I know, but why14:05
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MohammadAGwhat's [46218.779052] in normal time formats?14:06
MohammadAGchem|st, that's a steady red, not blinking14:06
MohammadAGI was browsing repos yesterday and installed lowbatled14:07
MohammadAGof all patterns, it uses the error one to indicate battery low14:08
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lcukMohammadAG, that is seconds from bootup isn't it?14:16
chem|stis sipwitch integrating with the phone software or standalone?14:16
chem|sthow do I reset my battery to proper readings?14:18
MohammadAGlcuk, no idea, SpeedEvil mentioned something about kernel times last week iirc14:19
chem|stit sais 19 cycles since learning but CI is still 114:19
MohammadAGthough I can't seem to remember that14:19
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ShadowJKWith bme: run from fully charged until shutdown. 4 times. With luck, it'll work.14:20
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chem|stis there anything to replace that piece of sh|t yet?14:22
ShadowJKWithout bme: run from fully charged running "./ 5" constantly until EDV1 column becomes 1. Careful, there's only a minute or so between EDV1 and hard shutdown, which is extremely risky and might damage or corrupt the emmc, onenand and microsd.14:23
ruskieyay use more battery to report that the battery is low ;)14:23
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ShadowJKRepeat 3 times or so14:24
ruskiegah I hate when I'm scrolled up14:24
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pupnik  you might know this pic ... i found the source .. enjoy (ntsfw)14:33
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pupnikever research computer graphics Corsac14:35
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Corsacpupnik: I think everyone knowing Lenna knows the source14:36
pupniki didn't14:36
pupnik   nice aquarium14:36
* merlin1991 didn't either14:36
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pupnikWhat British people say vs what the rest of the world hears
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ruskiepupnik, well my vocab apparently is closer to british than rest of the world14:40
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pupnikfunny to me how out of balance the picture looks when the crop is different14:42
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chem|stfinally someone made use of it...
vldcnstchem|st: indeed, excellent14:55
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Macerhm. is there a way to print directly in maemo?14:57
Maceri think the limitation would be abiword wouldn't it?14:57
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Maceri could do it from easydeb but that would be lame :)14:59
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BCMMMacer: there's an app in extras that prints15:00
Macerreally? which one?15:00
BCMMMacer: it works by ssh'ing to a machine with a CUPS server though15:01
BCMMdid you want to use a USB printer with HEN?15:01
Maceri guess that would be kind of cool too15:01
Macerno ... networked printer15:01
Macerbut the printer is independent15:01
Maceri doubt it has a way to ssh to it :)15:01
Maceralthough i suppose i can set up cups on something in order to do it15:01
BCMMyeah, you'd need to run a cups server somewhere15:02
BCMMassuming there is a cups driver for it15:02
Macerthere is for the printer. i'm using kde to print to it15:02
Macerit's an older brother hl15:02
Macerawesome printer for how much i paid for it when it was new :) only b/w but that's all i really need15:02
DocScrutinizerI seen cups for fremantle15:02
MacerDocScrutinizer: well in 2025 when meego for n900 is done maybe i'll try it :)15:03
Maceralthough i do believe i'll look into the ssh printing option. not sure how it works tho.. a ps converter then send it to an ssh tunnel to the cups server?15:04
Macerthat would actually be kind of cool to print while on the road and come home and grab what i printed :)15:04
Macerand a little safer than opening an unprotected cups port on the router15:05
DocScrutinizerMacer: haha .oO(???)15:05
Maceri'm a firm oo user :) abiword is great tho for a portable word processor15:05
Maceri used it last night to make a whole report using my su8w that i finally got working flawlessly15:06
Macerit's like a laptop in the pocket.. it's wonderful. if it could print on its own then it would be perfect15:06
Maceri actually don't care that maemo won't ever get updated anymore.. maybe there are still a few devs out there that will support it since it is rather n900 specific15:07
Maceri don't really see the kernel needing anything more .. the hardware works :)15:07
DocScrutinizerthere IS CUPS for maemo!!!15:07
Maceroh yeah?15:07
DocScrutinizerso WTF shouldn't it be able to print like a laptop?15:07
Venemosure, I have a cup too, although I couldn't say for certain that it is "for maemo".15:08
MacerDocScrutinizer: well.. for one.. i don't think there are any good apps that have a printing option or have been built against cups15:08
Macerat least abiword doesn't which is probably the only word processor worth using15:08
Macernor gnumeric which seems to be the only good spreadsheet app worth using15:08
Macerif the ssh printing/cups option works by choosing a file to print that will work :)15:09
Macerbut right now i have to finish proofing the report i did last night so i don't have time to tinker.. i'm happy enough that my su8w is working. i haven't used my G2 in 2 days haha15:10
Macern900 ftw15:10
Macerit just found new life15:10
Macerto think i was about to ebay it too :)15:10
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DocScrutinizerapt-cache show cups-bsd   -  fool15:19
merlin1991Macer: abiword has 3 missing images for me :D15:20
merlin1991in the main ui the ones for bold / underlined / italic15:21
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DocScrutinizer>>.. has its own filtering driver model for handling various document types.<<   >>This package provides the BSD commands for interacting with CUPS.<<15:21
Venemowhy BSD?15:22
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DocScrutinizere.g. because OSX is also based on BSD?15:24
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Venemowtf cares about OSX?15:26
DocScrutinizercups been a child of apple15:27
DocScrutinizerfor quite some time15:27
DocScrutinizerdunno if still15:27
ruskiesure it is15:27
ruskieit actually has some nice ideas... though as with all printing subsystems... it's a hack upon hack15:27
pupnikit got a lot easier to configure a couple years ago, following a complaint by... alan cox i think15:28
DocScrutinizerthe point is: if your app can not print, then you need to export your document to some semi-popular format like pdf, ps2, txt, whatever, and feed this to cups directly15:29
MacerDocScrutinizer: hehe15:29
DocScrutinizer>>.. has its own filtering driver model for handling various document types.<<15:29
MacerDocScrutinizer: i'll lookinto it15:30
* ruskie has a dot matrix printer he can just do cat plaintext.txt > /dev/lp0 -> prints it15:30
Macerwow.. dot matrix :)15:30
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Macerhow nostalgic15:30
Macerback in the carbon copy era haha15:30
VenemoDocScrutinizer, ah, I understand15:30
MacerDocScrutinizer: i never did an apt-cache search for cups15:31
pupniki had a typewriter with serial interface15:31
pupniki could cat files to it15:32
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Macerand there is a cups-client as well15:32
pupnikthere was something awesome about the sound of an electric typewriter pecking-out your reports15:32
ruskieMacer, well it works even got new tapes for it15:32
Macerpupnik: hahaha15:32
ruskiejust need to set it up sometime15:32
psycho_oreosa busy typist15:33
Macerruskie: oh i'm sure it does. those things are tanks :)15:33
ruskieI need to reorganize my space for taht15:33
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ruskieeven have some of that infinite paper for it15:33
pupniki also miss the fizz sound of a dot-matrix15:33
pupnikfizzbt fizzbt fizzzzzzzzbt fizbt15:33
Macerpupnik: that noise would drive me crazy15:33
Macerlike scratching a chalk board15:33
ruskieI have 2 printers that are currently not in use... a hp laserjet 4l and that dot matrix15:33
pupnikyeah but it sounded like work was being done15:33
ruskieneed to find them room and possibly print servers15:34
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ruskieof course now-a-days you enter a computer store and say I need a parallel/lpt port cable with a centronix connector... all the y'ng ones with not even any hair on their chins will just stare wide-eyed at you15:35
ruskieor even a centronix print server15:36
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ruskieand apparently they lack a definition of "good hardware"15:39
ruskieis this plasticky switch any good since it's the only one you have on offer... erm ow yeah no probs at all... has been chugging along for the past year...15:39
ruskiehook up... ok works... pass 9 months... part of the network stops working15:40
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chem|stMacer: post network printers speak postscript or any common language and you can send files in that format to them without queue if the ram of the printer is huge enough15:43
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Macerchem|st: heh. well. i will dick around with getting maemo to print tomorrow. too much to do now.15:58
DocScrutinizerjust amazing it works at all under linux15:58
Macerlike i said.. i was happy enough i was able to use my su8w like an actual keyboard15:58
Maceri typed up a huge report all on my n900 :)15:58
Maceri haven't had a need for gnumeric tho.. i'm glad both apps save as od?15:59
Macerwell. actually both apps save as pretty much anything :) they're aweswome for a portable office suite15:59
Macerat the very least better than anything android has atm15:59
DocScrutinizerspell: andridiot16:00
pupnik   listen to music via RF from your CRT monitor16:01
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Macermaybe but at least the hardware manufacturers for android phones seem a lot more open with getting their hardware to work with the community than nokia has ever been16:01
Maceri've never heard cyanogen saying "we can't get the camera going after 3 years because htc..."16:03
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SpeedEvilAren't android 'ROMs largely simply reusing the original - not OS - apps without proper licencing?16:07
Macerwho cares.. it works and they're not getting sued over it :)16:07
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Macercompanies probably just turn a blind eye to it because it draws people to their phones.. google turns a blind eye because they advance android and draw more people to them.. it's win win16:08
Macera concept nokia never understood16:08
Maceri've rooted and installed cyanogen on friends' G1s and G2s and they love it.. later they come with someone else asking me to do the same16:09
Macerand people are wondering why android is taking over the world.. because they are simply doing it right. they're starting to crush iphones16:10
Macernokia is on its way out sooner or later after this ms disaster16:10
Macerpalm is a joke16:10
Macersymbian might have a chance on the $5 prepay phones that can't do shit16:11
pupnikno repositories16:11
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Macercyanogen probably added another year to my G1 :) since TMob saw no need to actually put out updates in a timely fashion. Wow did android suck when it first came out.. but look at how far it has coome.. you can use the dev argument about dalvik this and that... no xorg.. blahblah.. but it works and that's what is important. and has apps and features people actually want16:13
pupnikgoogle momentum16:13
pupnikif nokia had pushed maemo big, they would have had nokia momentum16:14
Macerpupnik: maybe. but google makes things people want too16:14
Macerpupnik: that's hindsight16:14
pupnikthat was my foresight16:14
Macerof course they could have16:14
Macerbut they dropped the ball and are now out of the game16:14
pupnikthey were early16:14
chem|stMacer: nokia is aware of further loss of at least 15% marketshare for smartphones due to transitional gaps, they still remain leading supplier of mobile devices16:14
Macerchem|st: heh. that gap is going to grow16:14
chem|stMacer: yeah it is a realy dumb idea to dodge maemo and "wait" for wp716:15
Maceronly thing keeping nokia alive are its cheap phones that they sell to india indians16:15
Macerchem|st: it sure was. if they put their full weight behind maemo and dropped symbian when they had a chance then maemo would be doing amazing things16:16
Macernot to mention their half assed "community support" which was just for marketing16:16
chem|stactualy I'd like to see wp7 for enterprise solutions and maemo/meego for all other smartphones and keep symbian for the lowcost devices16:16
Macerchem|st: symbian has to go to the low cost devices.. nobody wants it anymore16:16
Macerit is pretty much a worthless throw away os16:16
chem|stMacer: it is not a matter of want it is a matter of price16:17
Macerdemand drives price16:17
chem|ststill symbian is one of the best enterprise solutions I know which do not need extra servers for everything16:17
Maceri would have thought the blackberry stuff was better16:17
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Macerwhich is why i am sure blackberries still own the cooperate world :)16:18
chem|stenterprise solutions do not need to do fancy they need to work, safe, secure and reliable16:18
chem|stMacer: yes16:18
Macermost people don't think "secure" when they think windows16:18
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Macerbe it because of their market share of PCs runnign windows.. but windows is always the one which is attacked the most and also the easiest to do it to16:19
chem|stbut still companies like Daimler let their emps choose between a blackberry and a nokia for the sole reason to have not "only" one supplier at hand16:19
pupnikrobustness has gotten more attention since the japan quakes16:20
Macerpupnik: the word? :)16:20
chem|sthuge companies cycle suppliers over time to keep the market running (at least the intelligent systems)16:20
Maceri am kind of sick of hearing "cloud" myself16:20
pupnikMacer: alternatives16:20
pupnikMacer: in designing systems and outsourcing solutions, you can optimise but sometimes that optimisation leads to fragility16:21
chem|stall my closer friends move back to "phone just phone" but for the dirty bit, waterproof >2m for 30mins, dustproof et al16:21
chem|stno more fancy stuff16:22
Macerheh. i have a g1 g2 and n900.. just because the su8w started to work with my n900.. i almost see no moe need for the g216:22
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Macerandroid is pretty ... but maemo just found a special place in my heart again16:22
chem|stand for sure as soon as I get a UMPC as light and durable as the n900 I dodge the smartphone market again16:22
Macerand the n900 has actually turned into a sensible office solution16:23
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Macerif maemo concentrated on things like bt keyboards and printing when it first came out.. it would be leading the pack :)16:23
chem|stI thought of buying one or two in spare account just to have untouched hardware for the next years before they stop selling it16:23
Macerespecially considering the powerful linux based apps it can run16:23
Macernothing beats abiword in android.. and i've tried them all heh16:24
pupnikmaybe meego device will be a phone16:24
Macerbut then again i'm a big kde4 fan so maybe it's just me :)16:24
Macerpupnik: i am incredibly skeptical about meego.. nokia turned meego into sega16:24
chem|stjust recently "no you are not... damn you are... freak... to keep the list short... how good is it with the coffeemaker?"16:25
Macerabandon this for that.. then abandon this for that.. and so on and so forth until nobody wants it because it will be abandoned again16:25
Maceras they proved with maemo16:25
Macerand i can't think of any other manufacturer who will pick up meego as their os16:25
Macerintel will probably release some pad that will fail16:26
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chem|stMacer: meego is already on a productive device16:26
chem|stI mean "sold" with16:26
chem|stdamn I need to nice things like tar and stuff by default...16:29
chem|stmusic stopped again :\16:29
DocScrutinizer(meego)-> [2011-05-17 13:29:21] <kjokinie> alterego: about uptime.. I haven't run measurements lately, though jhnikula made couple of patches to fix the audio parts, we should be in the ballpark of 15mA consumption when idling currently... battery is 1320mAh, you can do the math yourself :)16:30
DocScrutinizer[2011-05-17 13:30:26] <kjokinie> alterego: that's still almost 3 times the maemo consumption16:30
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DocScrutinizer[2011-05-17 13:31:24] <kimju> I'm seeing quite a lot cpu activity, we are not staying idle that much16:31
chem|stDocScrutinizer: idle wifi logged in with a few accounts gives 20mA^^16:31
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DocScrutinizer[2011-05-17 13:37:02] <kimju> and another issue is that sometimes the device stays "idling" around ~65mA level. no idea about what is causing that16:32
DocScrutinizer</quote> and that's not going to change any time soon for meego-arm, as they rely on a general-purpose upstream kernel and middleware that's written by guys ignorant of the particular needs of an embedded device16:33
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Macermeego uses fennec by default. that should say it all right there :)16:34
DocScrutinizerso better don't hold your breath for a *proper* true meego based phone16:34
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Macerchem|st: "based on meego" that would make me nervous to buy one right there16:37
GAN900Another dual-core Android monster phone.16:37
Macerwonder how much they sell them for16:37
GAN900N950 better kick ass.16:37
edheldilMacer:  500e16:38
Maceredheldil: ah. so judging by the Greece problems.. $20US?16:38
Macer:) jk16:38
DocScrutinizerjudging by the US deficit, probably around 1500USD16:39
Macereuro banks are better at bailing countries out than our treasury dept.. when they're not off raping maids and what not16:39
MacerDocScrutinizer: the european deficit is probably just as much ;)16:39
edheldilMacer:  heard about immininet US bankrupcy on TV, so I would not be as impertinent ;-)16:39
GAN900Hooray for collectivist assholes.16:39
Maceredheldil: it's ok.. we have tanks :)16:39
DocScrutinizerwell, EU hastn't received a credibility warning of a top notch rating agency yet16:40
DocScrutinizerso what, USA actually has16:40
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Macerhahaha.. fair enough :)16:40
Macer$US is still gaining on the euro every day16:40
GAN900DocScrutinizer, as your politicians seems more agressively collectivist across the board, I don't think it'll take too long. :P16:41
Maceronly thing slowing it down is europe.. talk about chicken and the egg16:41
Macertoo many EU investments here16:41
Macerfree trade in a nutshell i suppose16:41
Macerat least we dragged everybody down with our housing market :)16:41
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Maceryou don't think we love free trade because of the profits do you? it's really just to make sure when we go we take everybody else with us16:42
DocScrutinizerand it's actually harder to get 37 credit cards each holding debit, in random EU country16:42
GAN900Macer, this situation has very little to do with free trade. ;)16:42
MacerGAN900: :) the situation here does.16:42
GAN900More like protectionism, government-sponsored credit overextension, out-of-control entitlement spending, corporatism, etc.16:43
chem|stOPEC already dropped $ out of their funds cycle, now its EUR YEN and their own currency16:43
GAN900None of those have anything to do with the free market or capitalism.16:43
pupnikthe latter word gets used to mean different things16:43
chem|stmexico sold all their $ balances16:43
GAN900Since what we practice in the US bears only a passing resemblance.16:43
Macerso just piss poor world wide government fiscal irresponsibility?16:44
Macerchem|st: how do you know that isn't the grand plan? :)16:44
GAN900Macer, that's a big part of it, but there's also the nasty corporate cronyism between politicians and monopolists.16:44
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Macertell the nasdaq to reduce the rating.. drop the value.. buy it back incredibly cheap... then await the housing market return and sell AIG at a huge gain eliminating the debt16:45
GAN900Also: stop paying people just for getting old.16:45
Macerwell. :)16:46
Macersocial security is more so a mess because it was the cookie jar16:46
* DocScrutinizer funds bartertown16:46
Macernot to mention people are paid more than they put in which was not its intent16:46
Macerbut old people vote so they get what they want :)16:46
GAN900Ponzi scheme16:47
Macersure is16:47
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Macerworst one ever made :)16:47
pupnikwb wazd16:47
Macerhad good intentions tho16:47
GAN900The road to hell and whatnot.16:47
pupnikso did pol pot16:47
GAN900Collectivism just doesn't get you anywhere.16:48
GAN900And, frankly, I don't think it ever had good intentiond.16:48
pupnikwhat youtube viewer do you use on n900?16:48
GAN900It's always about control.16:48
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GAN900Quieting the discontented masses.16:48
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chem|stMacer: grandplan? the us is actualy bankrupt16:49
pupnikGAN900: i'd prefer not using the flah vm16:49
DocScrutinizerGAN900: now you begin to see why I refuse to own a credit card16:49
pupnikchem|st: and germany isn't?16:49
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: definitely not yet16:49
GAN900DocScrutinizer, because collectivists want to bribe everybody into believing they're not evil?16:49
BCMMtalking of youtube, are there any hardware-accelerated HTML5 <video> implementation for the n900?16:50
GAN900There's nothing wrong with reasonable credit16:50
chem|stpupnik: as long as you get deposit your at least save16:50
BCMMi mean, the hardware ought to be capable of it16:50
GAN900Only way to grow an economy with any sort of speed.16:50
pupnikBCMM: there's .flv player (mplayer) that does the job much better than flash16:51
DocScrutinizerbartertown is the future16:51
BCMMpupnik: most stuff does most stuff better than flash :)16:51
chem|stDocScrutinizer: I run bartertown16:51
nid0I fail to see how my credit card is in any way evil :\16:51
chem|stcan we please get rid of flash and java?!16:51
BCMMbut mplayer still isn't hardware-accelerated, is it?16:51
DocScrutinizerchem|st: I'll call you Turner16:51
pupnikbarter is not the future, it's the deep past16:52
BCMMbut yeah, even on my desktop i typically watch youtube in mplayer16:52
pupnikcorrect BCMM16:52
BCMMi have a short script that uses youtube-dl to get the URL, then plays it in mplayer16:52
pupnikthere's also a youtube-shell that will let you search and launch youtubes from command line16:53
BCMMthere ought to be a firefox extension to replace youtube vids with an mplayer-starting button16:53
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pupnikor a *anything* starting button16:54
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: see? history running in circles16:54
pupnikraise the transaction costs too high and civilization collapses into a new dark age16:55
chem|stDocScrutinizer: Masterblaster please16:55
DocScrutinizerpupnik: clubs are weapons of the deep past as well, still Einstein said he doesn't know about WW3, but he's sure clubs are the weapons of WW416:56
nid0except he misspoke16:56
nid0there'll still be someone somewhere with a gun for ww4, and he'll beat the clubs hands-down16:56
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chem|stwhat is the definition of WW3? Terrorist VS western hemisphere sounds pretty much like WW316:58
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DocScrutinizernid0: that might be true for guns and clubs (though I doubt), but it doesn't apply to power of money and stock market speculations in the financial war. Bartering won't simply care about little papers with funny printings on them, no matter how much of then anybody got16:58
nid0well, until that day comes along, im perfectly happy with the convenience of swiping my shiny little bit of plastic to pay for things :)16:59
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chem|stnid0: worst case, this year already... some huge countries are walking the razoredge already17:00
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, yes, fiat currency is ridiculous.17:02
GAN900Doesn't mean barter is a viable alternative.17:02
GAN900What you're actually looking for is the gold standard. :P17:02
DocScrutinizersure, never claimed that17:02
DocScrutinizerjust playing one of my sarcastic fatalistic jokes on our modern world17:03
DocScrutinizernot all of a joke, when you look at Greece getting economy-bombed back to ~192017:04
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DocScrutinizernext: Ireland, Portugal, USA, the world17:05
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pupnik funny that linux compositing WM's still haven't supported keycolor transpareency in like 8 years17:06
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DocScrutinizerthought we got alpha for that17:07
DocScrutinizercompositing isn't a bluebox17:07
pupnikit means that your text is unreadable17:07
pupnikit's the wrong solution17:08
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* pupnik thwaps linux kids with Foley & Van Damme17:08
Macerdamn sshguard17:09
Macer:) i didn't whitelist my local subnet17:09
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Macerlove west wing17:13
Macerbest damn thing martin sheen was ever in17:13
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ShadowJKultimate madness: running that in fennec on n90017:24
DocScrutinizerplease don't tell me some fool implemented the kernel in js17:25
jaskaits just x86 emu17:25
Macerno chromium for maemo?17:25
ShadowJKIt's qemu implemented in js17:25
DocScrutinizer  ERROR: your browser is too old to run JS/Linux.17:25
DocScrutinizer  You should use a recent browser such as Firefox 4.x or Google Chrome.17:26
ShadowJK2.5 minutes: kernel booted, init starting17:26
MacerDocScrutinizer: yah.. me too hahaha17:26
Macerold microb17:26
ShadowJKoh hey I have a prompt17:26
Maceris microb even being developed anymore?17:26
* ShadowJK is running it in fennec17:26
DocScrutinizerI couldn't think of anything more useless atm - maybe that changes on my next booze17:27
ShadowJKI'm surprised this boots on n900 at all17:28
ShadowJKin a time less than the expected age of the universe17:28
DocScrutinizermeh, you don't assume this to be some serious thing17:29
DocScrutinizeryou do?17:29
ShadowJKfabrice always does crazy tech demos17:30
ShadowJKlike the tcc compile+boot kernel in 8 secs17:30
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mecejacekowski, ping17:30
ShadowJKor producing valid DVB-T signal by drawing the right patterns of pixels to framebuffer17:31
ShadowJKonly in the VHF band, but still :)17:32
pupnik 99% of Android phones leak secret account credentials   anyone miss this?17:32
DocScrutinizerandridiot, meh. who cares17:33
DocScrutinizeras if I had expected anything different - of course each andridiot system is leaking all info to google17:34
mecepupnik, #obvious17:34
mecepupnik, although I always enjoy spreading dirt on google, so thanks for the link :)17:35
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mecespeaking of evil, I mean google, has anyone tried to compile chromium 11 for maemo?17:36
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pupnikhow many GB source does it require17:36
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pupnikWell done Google, authentication tokens over plain HTTP, top marks for stupidity.17:38
ShadowJKI recently saw someone's hotmail account taken over for exact same reason17:39
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ShadowJKapparently https is "optional" and you have to go into settings (and there are like 5 different settings links, taking you to different subsets of settings with no apparent pattern)17:40
ShadowJKand enable https17:40
DocScrutinizerhexavalent chromium (Cr(VI) or Cr6+) is very toxic and mutagenic17:41
mecepupnik, talking to me?17:42
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pupnikmece: me?17:43
mecepupnik, (05:37:06 PM) pupnik: how many GB source does it require17:43
pupnikyes, the chromium source17:43
mecepupnik, no idea. I was just curious.17:43
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* DocScrutinizer is waiting for a browser caled VX17:44
mecepupnik, I've tried to make sense of Capt'n Corrupt's ramblings on tmo regarding chrome os, and afaik chrome browser == chrome os in practice.17:44
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DocScrutinizerisn't chrome OS basically a bloated browser to do everything as HTML?17:46
DocScrutinizer>> Since Google Chrome OS is aimed at users who spend most of their computer time on the Internet, the only application on the device will be a browser incorporating a media player.<<17:48
chem|streality got me back....17:49
meceDocScrutinizer, yes.17:49
meceDocScrutinizer, so chrome os < ALL OTHER OS's17:49
chem|ststupitity is no excuse^^17:50
DocScrutinizerI suggest a kernel with built-in X, so all you do at boottime is open a X port and connect to a remote server17:50
meceDocScrutinizer, a whaa?17:51
pupnikremember thin clients17:52
DocScrutinizerI know, I know17:52
chem|st~400mW with wifi and playback of mp3s over headset is not that bad would love to have that on my netbook... there my system up "only" is 10W17:53
infobotthat's too long, chem|st17:53
infobothmm... idk is I don't know17:54
DocScrutinizer~kick chem|st17:54
* infobot kicks chem|st17:54
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chem|st~coffee DocScrutinizer17:55
* infobot steals some of ZogG's special coffee and gives it to DocScrutinizer on a silver platter.17:55
ShadowJKI sounds low, but if it's playback of mp3 on N900, it makes sense17:55
Macerlet me try out firefox17:55
chem|st70mA at 4.xV17:55
Macermaybe it is just because i used fennec while it w2as n[Cw17:56
Macerwas new17:56
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chem|stI needed to purge fennec and install it from scratch as some of the upgrades did screw it17:57
Maceromg why is app manager so slow17:57
Maceri blame python17:57
lcukmacer with -devel enabled, it has every version of every package17:57
DocScrutinizerbecause of the huge repos it has to update and rebuild the local db17:57
lcuksuggestions in the past would be to have the repositories including only required dependencies I think17:58
DocScrutinizerhi lcuk17:58
lcukhi DocScrutinizer  \o17:58
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ShadowJKapp manager on my N900 does "Hcecking for updates" after every single tap17:59
ShadowJKand doesn't update automatically when not running HAM17:59
DocScrutinizerthat's indeed the unique feature of HAM17:59
chem|stMacer: 18MB repos if all extras are enabled17:59
lcukI am guessing it would be possible to scan and filter to specifically required packages18:00
lcukso that all dependencies are cared for18:00
lcukbut that would be server side18:00
DocScrutinizerlcuk: speaking outa my a... I'd say that's almost exactly what HAM does18:00
DocScrutinizerooh, server side - good point18:01
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edheldilthere is also a possibility to run apt-get install and apt-cache search directly ;-)18:01
Macerno flash in fennec?18:01
lcukedheldil, PITA for end users18:01
DocScrutinizeredheldil: also dangerous18:01
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chem|stand incremental diff support to not have a download of xMB each update18:02
meceMacer, you can do some about:config setting hack to enable flash18:02
ShadowJKI just tapped "Update". So one repo died, it popped up message about that. Upon tapping "Details", to see which repo failed, it went "Checking for updates" again.18:02
chem|stMacer: about:config^^18:02
chem|stMacer: its just not activated18:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's odd18:02
chem|stShadowJK: vlc died lately18:03
Macerchem|st: ok. i will hunt it down18:04
ShadowJKsygic too18:04
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Macerchem|st: uhm18:11
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* GeneralAntilles teehees.18:11
Macerwhat do i enable18:12
Macerabout:config has a million options18:12
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DocScrutinizermonster as in "no sw support for those friggin cores"?18:13
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pupnikn900fly is on maemo-select >_<18:13
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: OS X is quite good on the SMP.18:14
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: do a lot of video and CGI stuff that parallelizes well, too. ;)18:14
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DocScrutinizerwell, the URL wording is massively misleading. It's about a physical CPU upgrade and how to support it via EFI. I thought they're going to enable user to use some "hidden" cores - like the shaders in gfx or sth - which wouldn't exactly match the def for SMP18:17
ShadowJKthe fact you have to hack firmware to do a cpu upgrade...18:18
DocScrutinizeris bad enough18:18
ShadowJKspot the facepalm18:18
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: yes, well. ;)18:19
GeneralAntillesShadowJK: yes, I agree.18:19
GeneralAntillesBut the damn thing was free.18:19
DocScrutinizerwhat? your 2009 mbp?18:20
meceanyway back to android bashing:
meceI LOL'd18:21
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, my late-2004 G5 (water cooled) leaked early in 2009 and killed itsely.18:23
mecethe video brings up the question are both processors actually used on the atrix?18:23
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chem|stisnt fring the microsoft facebook?18:24
GeneralAntillesTook about 5 months, but I eventually got Apple to replace it wholesale after first having them agree to a free repair of: motherboard, PSU, case, and CPUs, which was DOA.18:24
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meceN9 trailer!
GeneralAntillesOK, who wants to collect the screengrabs and post them on Talk for Thanks!+++++++18:27
Lynouremece: the real device will come with even longer shots of beautiful people and scenery? :)18:27
GeneralAntilles"Your watched item, Nikon Nikkor 85mm f1.4, is ending soon" clearly filmed by a photographer.18:28
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ShadowJKSomeone reply with "What about flash10 and 3g video calls?!" to that youtoob18:29
ShadowJKhm, so.. No lens cover, single flash (led or xenon?), portrait mode, cocaine dispenser, hw keyboard N97 style,18:31
ShadowJKand too thin for a proper battery. No visible battery door?18:32
ShadowJKThis should set tmo on fire :)18:32
JaffaNokia've been moving away from those for ages18:32
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JaffaPeople still read TMO?18:32
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* ShadowJK wonders how long until MeeGo DE on N918:34
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ShadowJKI wonder what became of Nokia's fuel cell prototypes18:37
ShadowJKfuel cell and a Li-Ion battery in a phone18:37
ShadowJKit did hotswap :(18:37
mergehey, i run mozillas latest-beta repo and don't get version 4.0.118:38
mergewhy is that18:39
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chem|stShadowJK: no cocaine dispenser would be a show stopper!18:51
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meceGeneralAntilles, good idea! :D
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: where from you got those hw spec details?18:56
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JaffaShadowJK: The video on YouTube claiming to be a teaser for the N918:58
JaffaDocScrutinizer: ^18:58
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Aspects of it look convincing that it's *some* form of Harmattan device18:58
MohammadAGit seems to be harmattan, indeed18:58
MohammadAGwanna bet you'll get it at meegoconf?18:58
MohammadAG(And I won't, /me cries)18:59
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JaffaNot sure I'd bet on it for meegoconf19:00
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MohammadAGJaffa, pretty sure it'll be there, at least as a developer device like the 300 one in Amsterdam19:01
JaffaWould be nice to get something shiny19:01
* DocScrutinizer frowns and turns away19:02
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MohammadAGJaffa, if that's true then can I blame my exams for not getting one?19:03
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* Jaffa hopes Harmattan isn't an enormous regression in usability (e.g. good hardware keyboard, terminal, SSH, hackability)19:04
DocScrutinizerJaffa: isn't there a devel dev queue for N9?19:04
lardmanMohammadAG: I wonder if I can blame needing to move house?19:04
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm guessing there's nothing until they announce it19:05
nid0tbh, the keyboard cant be much worse than the n900's, but from that trailer it looks like it is a crummy n900-style 3-line job19:05
MohammadAGat least as a dev issue19:05
lardmanI quite like the look of the E7 though, if it ran Linux19:05
MohammadAGlardman, moving is one thing, exams is another :p19:06
JaffaThe E7 feels a lot flimsier and more delicate than the N8, cos of the big sliding keyboard19:06
SpeedEvilHmm. In principle I could get to meego 2011 - but without any money to spend once I got there.19:07
* SpeedEvil was idly wondering.19:07
MohammadAGJaffa, ever used an N97?19:07
SpeedEvilI have way more sane things to spend cash on.19:07
JaffaMohammadAG: I have.19:07
lardmanMohammadAG: hey I have to invigilate some exams :p19:07
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lardmanso what was that a trailer for?19:07
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: if Nokia fails to send me a N9 evaluation PV sample, after I've proven on N900to find all the bugs in hw, then they're more ignorant than I ever thought19:08
Jaffalardman: Looks to be RM-680, a Harmattan device.19:08
lardmanJaffa: ah, finally it breaks cover19:08
JaffaWhether that's the "N9" or the "N9 Dev Device" or...19:08
lardmanI have given up reading TMO19:08
nid0thank christ its not edof19:08
MohammadAGN9 isn't the name afaik19:08
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MohammadAGthat's for Windows Phone 7 stuff19:09
JaffaMohammadAG: Oh?19:09
MohammadAGYeah, I thought they went back to NXXX19:09
MohammadAGlike N95019:09
JaffaMohammadAG: There's been no public talk about a name. There was the "N950" to set expectations over what you'd get, and there was the Settings translations debacle which contained19:09
Jaffa..."About my N9" - but that could change at any point.19:10
MohammadAGanyway, I guess we should refer to it as the RM-68019:10
JaffaMohammadAG: Or "Harmattan device"19:10
MohammadAGit's a shame it won't have an RGB LED, that's a big regression imo19:10
lcukthe n900 has 384001 RGB leds :P19:11
SpeedEvilNo it doesn't.19:11
SpeedEvilIt has one.19:11
JaffaNo it... snap19:11
lcukok it has 384000 RGB lcd thingies19:11
lcukand 1 led19:11
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MohammadAGby the looks of it, the N950 will also lack lasers19:11
* MohammadAG is disappointed19:11
lardmanand a couple of RGB ones which have the same output on each channel19:11
JaffaAnd a tea's made19:11
SpeedEvilWhat about lazors?19:11
infobotJaffa meant: And a tea's maid19:12
SpeedEvillardman: more than that - keyboard and display LEDs too19:12
SpeedEvillardman: a dozenish19:12
lcukwill it come with seabass attachment though?19:12
lardmanSpeedEvil: true :)19:12
MohammadAGI want the one that shoots portals!19:12
DocScrutinizerthose aren't RGB19:12
lcukMohammadAG, interesting19:13
DocScrutinizerthey're evidently BY aka white19:13
DocScrutinizerN8 seems to have OLED screen?19:14
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DocScrutinizerso maybe RX680 as well?19:14
DocScrutinizerthen indeed it has quite a number of RGB LEDs19:14
MohammadAGthat's what MeeGo's sources say19:14
MohammadAGwell, mce's sources19:14
* lardman browses Google looking for Harmattan goodies and finds lots of pages from '0919:15
DocScrutinizersay what?19:15
DocScrutinizerOLED or RM-680?19:15
MohammadAGerr, what?19:15
MohammadAGI think you're confused, I was talking about the notification light :p19:16
DocScrutinizeryeah, idiocy19:16
MohammadAGI have it red for SMS, green for IM, blue for emails, fading in and out red/blue for missed calls19:16
MohammadAGone light can't indicate all those19:16
MohammadAGso that's a regression for me19:16
DocScrutinizeras a RGB LED isn't really more expensive than a silly white one19:16
MohammadAGcba to learn that :p19:16
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm guessing they went with an N8 look19:17
SpeedEvilIt's a bit more expensive. I'd guess 15 cents, not 519:17
MohammadAGI hope they add in hardware buttons for s(end)19:17
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: no way19:17
MohammadAG15 cents won't break Nokia anyway19:17
DocScrutinizermarginally more expensive, but in the range of 5ct rather than 1519:18
lardmanlol, I thought you were talking about the finish of the device19:18
MohammadAGthe screen's probably a 4" AMOLED, ala E719:18
SpeedEvilThe cheapest LED I see in 1000s is $.37 at digikey19:19
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MohammadAGchances are Nokia learned from the N900, so a 32GB eMMC will hold rootfs19:19
lardmanso do we reckon dual core then?19:19
MohammadAGwhich in turn probably means flashing = removing user data19:19
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Sc0rpiusN9 will have 64 GB or so I heard19:19
lardmanCortex A9?19:19
MohammadAGlardman, I'm guessing single core 1.0 - 1.219:20
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GeneralAntilleslardman, I really hope so at this point.19:20
MohammadAGdon't mind a dual core device, would need software optimizations but at least the HW's safe19:20
GeneralAntillesComing out of the gate with an OMAP3630 is going to be bad news.19:20
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MohammadAGwb alter19:20
MohammadAGtab fail19:21
alteregoI have to say, that teaser trailer is very sexy19:21
GeneralAntillesmece, more pictures.19:21
alteregoI actually did a little wee in my pants.19:21
nid0the lack of dedicated number row on the keyboard is disappointing though :(19:21
alteregoAnd I like the new rocky style promo video19:21
* GeneralAntilles notes the dimmer TRIAC on one of the overhead lights is now pulsing at 3hz in the "off" position. . . .19:21
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, I really hope I'm wrong about the single core guess but...19:21
alteregoMuch cooler than the normal Nokia (look how nice and green we are)19:21
MohammadAGthe same N9 was around in what? November?19:22
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, I don't think you are.19:22
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lardmanwell whatever the case I hope they just get on with it, am getting bored of waiting19:22
GeneralAntillesBut there were those rumors about delays to update hardware.19:22
alteregoMohammadAG: unless they've updated the previous hardware (OMAP365019:22
GeneralAntilleslardman: +++++++++++++++++++19:22
DocScrutinizerok, been wrong. Actually digikey has then in the 30ct range19:22
lardmanin fact I was getting bored of waiting 8 months ago19:22
alteregoIt will be single core.19:22
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* MohammadAG hears the sound of dreams shattering19:22
alterego12MP Carl Zeiss, I'm happy with that :)19:22
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (digikey) yes ^^^19:23
alteregoIt looks like an aluminum back cover (like the N810 had) too19:23
nid0and AF \o/19:23
MohammadAG12MP is meh, bring on 25!19:23
alteregoMohammadAG: 12MP is about as high as I'm willing to go for that size tbg19:23
alteregoHell, it's arguable too high for that size.19:23
MohammadAGalterego, 25 isn't realistic, your sarcasm detector's borked19:23
* GAN900 orders a real backpack for SF.19:23
alteregoSo's your face.19:23
MohammadAGfu :p19:24
alteregoGAN900: we're all meeting for drunks in the Hyatt bar on Saturday night if you're interested?19:24
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infobotalterego meant: GAN900: we're all meeting for drinks in the Hyatt bar on Saturday night if you're interested?19:24
lardmanhmm, wish I'd applied for SF now that work has tailed off19:24
alteregoFreudian slip ...19:24
lardmanah well19:24
GAN900alterego, was thinking dinenr sometime before that.19:24
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alteregoGAN900: I arrive at 3:30pm, I'd be happy to wander around with you ;)19:25
GAN900And the mwkn during/after drinking.19:25
alteregoI'm arriving with Jaffa19:25
GAN900Got a dozen or so people in for dinner.19:25
alteregoSounds good19:25
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MohammadAGalterego, ever wondered if columbus worked in flight?19:25
lardmando we know if there will be streaming coverage of the talks in SF?19:25
GAN900Apparently the council is meeting up sometime in the evening for their secret planning meeting.19:25
JaffaGAN900: MWKN drinks/food is Sunday, no?19:25
alteregoMohammadAG: I'll be testing it :P19:25
GAN900So maybe after that.19:25
GAN900Oh, yes.19:26
GAN900Saturday != Sunday19:26
lardmandepends if your logic is fuxxy19:26
lardmanfuzzy even19:26
GAN900Well maybe if we get drunk enough it wont matter.19:26
lardmanwell that's a definition of fuzzy :)19:27
GAN900lardman, I'm planning on providing a live IRC blog.19:27
alteregoGAN900: me too!19:27
MohammadAG<alterego> MohammadAG: I'll be testing it :P <-- sure the speed digits will fit?19:27
lardmancool :)19:27
alteregoMohammadAG: heh19:27
MohammadAGI doubt you'll be traveling at 100-999 kmph speeds :p19:27
alteregoMohammadAG: overflow ftw! :)19:27
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GAN900alterego, I may be in for Saturday. I'm getting in in the evening and staying with a friend. He may want to do dinner.19:27
ShadowJKMohammadAG, rootfs on emmc is going to be such a lagfest once you marginally even approach using more than 70% ram it wont even be funny anymore :)19:27
alteregoMohammadAG: I'll update it to include an extra 0 :P19:28
ShadowJKespecially if they're still using ext319:28
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: Columbus too the ship19:28
MohammadAGalterego, I'd start adding division19:28
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: Columbus took a ship19:28
MohammadAGso alterego's hijacking the plane?19:28
alteregoMohammadAG: yeah, I'll do a branch called "Wright" :P19:29
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MohammadAGmerlin1991, I'm getting my license tomorrow :p19:29
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* alterego notes "Ovi Maps" in this screeny -
lardmanah, it seems there will indeed by live streaming :)
alteregoTV & Video?19:31
* ShadowJK wonders if sandisk's "iSSD" is actually non-stupid19:31
alteregoOh no ..19:31
* lardman heads for home19:31
lardmancu chaps later19:31
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SpeedEvilI was interested to see that samsungs newer 'emmc' line offers something similar to trim.19:32
ShadowJKYeah... and Nokia has trim support iirc19:33
ShadowJK(in harmattan)19:33
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ShadowJKI'm not sure trim helps much if they're still using the same fundamental algorithms as on typical sd/mmc/usbflash though..19:34
* alterego notices the camera app icon looks somewhat reminiscent of this -
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SpeedEvilTrim helps modestly to avoid fragmentation on flash.19:37
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SpeedEvilIt means that the flash controller explicitly knows what parts of the disk are not wanted, and can be zeroed.19:37
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SpeedEvilRather than having to interpret.19:38
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SpeedEvilThis means that there is more 'free space' for wear leveling to happen in.19:38
SpeedEvilIn a normal SD card, the 'free space' is only the space specifically allocated to wear leveling.19:38
SpeedEvilIn a trim-supporting card, it's potentially that, plus any empty space.19:39
ShadowJKAnd allocation takes place in erase block sizes anyway..19:39
ShadowJKAnd there's a limited (1-4, according to linaro's research) amount of pages it can keep "open" simultaneously19:40
alteregoOoo, the on screen keyboard looks nice.19:40
* SpeedEvil wishes that the micro was exposed, and programmable again.19:40
pupnik_elop looks like something out of a cthulhu book19:40
ShadowJKSo that means if you have two apps writing 4k sequentially, it is translated into repeated 256k (or 512k, whatever erase block size is) read-modify19:40
ShadowJKso class rating speed divided by 64 :P19:41
DocScrutinizeralterego: wtf are you talking about?19:42
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, N9/N950 trailer19:42
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DocScrutinizerI fsckng haven't seen a vknd looking nice there19:43
DocScrutinizernor do I get how anybody can find out about "no visible battery door"19:44
pupnik_thin is in19:45
alteregoSort of looks like it could be Malik19:45
alteregoBut probably not.19:46
fralstrailer wat?19:49
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: just look at the first few seconds when it rotates to show the back.19:52
alteregoLooks like brushed metal19:52
alteregoNot saying it is.19:52
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alteregoJust saying it reminds me of the N810, especially with the edges at the top19:53
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alteregoThe flash looks a bit puney though19:54
DocScrutinizeralterego: which timemark?19:55
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ShadowJKalterego, but atleast it wont blind itself with the flash19:55
ShadowJKlike n90019:55
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alteregoHas anyone managed to read a disk that hasn't been finalized under windows on a Linux PC?19:55
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MohammadAGjust pop it in and press play19:58
MohammadAGit works as is for me19:58
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DocScrutinizeralterego: that's quite a blurry sth I can't tell anything from, at ~3s20:00
alteregoDocScrutinizer: yeah, it sort of comes in and out of focus.20:00
alteregoI think I'll download the video and watch it on my local machine ;)20:00
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alteregoSeems to have a 1080p source ..20:00
alteregoDocScrutinizer: you in SF next week?20:01
DocScrutinizeralas not, no CC20:01
alteregoAw :(20:01
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DocScrutinizeralterego: you may try to find sb who understands about why to send me an evaluation sample, an NDA + a schematics20:02
alteregoDocScrutinizer: we'll see.20:03
alteregoI bet you'll all be offered dev devices20:03
SpeedEvilWish I had spare funds to get to SF.20:03
alteregoI'm still quite hesitant to believe they'll me giving them out in SF20:03
alteregoSeems pretty unlikely to me ..20:03
infobotalterego meant: Seems pretty unlikely to be ..20:04
alteregoffs ..20:04
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alteregoHeh, there's an advert for an E7 next to the N9 vid in my browser.20:05
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lardmanone thing I did forget to ask, is do we reckon it will have a digital compass?20:05
* lardman hopes so20:05
alteregolardman: I'm pretty sure it will.20:06
alteregoThey're sticking them in all the others.20:06
lardmanwell that was the case with the N97 too, but I do hope so20:06
alteregoI imagine peripheral wise it should be similar to N8, so I'm hoping for HDMI, USB OTG &, compo, compass etc.20:06
ShadowJKwhat about a gyro20:07
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lardmanfor position information in lifts? ;)20:07
ShadowJKfor attitude info20:08
lardmancan't one determine that with a 3 axis accelerometer?20:08
lardmanassuming one is standing still on the ground, why not?20:08
ShadowJKbut not determine which way you're pointing20:09
DocScrutinizercamera antishake is done with gyro20:09
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ShadowJKlike for star gazing20:09
alteregoShadowJK: that's why the compass is there.20:09
lardmanthe gyro would need to have its orientation and heading set otherwise anyway20:09
ShadowJKcompass is slow, inaccurate and prone to interference..20:09
lardmanok fair enough, so use compass to setup gyros?20:10
lardmanthat would work I suppose20:10
lardmanafaicr the Galaxy Tab has a gyro, and it doesn't improve the behaviour of the compass that's for sure! :)20:11
rm_youhrm, wonder what the status of meego on n900 is now <_<20:11
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MohammadAGNot bad - good20:12
lardmanthe whole Meego thing has really put me off, I would like some hardware though and a toolchain that will work with it20:12
ShadowJKYeah, compass, accelerometer to setup gyro. Gyro gives fast response, and can distinguish between acceleration and rotation20:12
lardmanand thereby some sort of goal and platform on which to work20:12
GeneralAntillesWhat a mess.20:12
lardmanShadowJK: ok, would require decent sw to decide how to setup the gyro, but certainly doable20:13
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: eh?20:14
rm_youMeego seems like it is moving super slowly and i'm not really sure what their real goal is, they've generalized so much, will it work RIGHT for *any* platform? >_>20:14
lardmanGAN900: yeah, not the ideal way to try to get your developer community doing anything imho20:14
GeneralAntillesUnsurprising, though.20:14
DocScrutinizerrm_you: quite to the point, yes20:14
GeneralAntillesIntel only knows how to deal with OEMs.20:14
GeneralAntillesNokia is thrashing itself to death.20:14
lardmanrm_you: exactly, almost as if they have withdrawn into OEM only mode20:14
rm_youyeah i was very disappointed by the the state of meego when they first announced it, and nothing has really changed my mind20:14
rm_youyou'd think if they really wanted a community to support it, they would have done some sprints to get it functioning properly and usably on n900 or SOME hardware ASAP20:15
rm_youby now, no one really cares anymore20:15
DocScrutinizerindeed, except alterego20:16
lardmanwell the N900 is pretty old and slow now, so that is part of the issue20:16
lardmancertainly not shiny and new20:16
rm_youpft, old and slow? :P still pretty good compared to many handsets20:16
rm_youonly things that beat it are the really new fancy ones, but they're not THAT much faster20:16
lardmanhmm, clock is slow, it's a brick too20:16
GeneralAntillesStill my main.20:16
lardmanI do love it still, but times have changed20:16
lardmanstill mine tpp20:17
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DocScrutinizerlardman: if your system can't get to work properly on "old" hw like N900, then you got some fundamental problems20:17
rm_youstill using it as my main :P20:17
rm_youi'd put n900 "middle of the road" for the current gen20:17
lardmanDocScrutinizer: certainly, just thinking about the appeal of writing sw for something20:17
lardmanrm_you: for smartphones?20:17
lardmanhmm, clock is quite low for current day20:18
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you have to keep up with competitors in the end20:18
MohammadAGpeople like eye candy, the N900 can't do a lot of stuff people want in that field20:18
MohammadAGand MeeGo seems to add a lot of it20:18
DocScrutinizerwho's competitor to meego-arm?20:18
MohammadAGto Nokia20:18
lardmanfor me the poor calendar and maps are the major issue, plus slow (if complete) browser20:20
lardmanoh, and slow connection20:20
lardmanbut other than those it's fine, not too bothered about bling, but I think it should be available to wow people20:20
GeneralAntillesI want more RAM.20:20
nid0my girlfriend still gets all starry-eyed by gasballs on the n90020:20
lardmanscreen size does it no favours too20:21
pupnik_gasballs ?20:22
nid0pupnik_: - A visual demo thing nokia released quite a while ago20:23
lardmanah the dreaded Ovi store20:23
rm_youi never got my Ovi store working :/20:23
lardmannor did I, other than manually through HAM, and I try not to use HAM as I'm sure you'll all agree20:23
lardmanNice work on the CSU though, I've not used the camera for ages and did so today and found some random distance numbers on the screen20:25
lardmannot sure what they do, but they looked nice20:25
DocScrutinizeruseless autofocus thing20:26
derfmbarcode really needed some autofocus.20:26
rm_youooo how is mbarcode doing20:27
DocScrutinizerbut no random numbers telling you... what?20:27
rm_youlast version of that i had was the version i built for n800 with the onboard UPC database :P20:27
SpeedEvilmbarcode now doesn't crash for me on n900 - which is nic e- I just now need to work out how to get it to spit out barcodes to a named pipe, or a file.20:28
SpeedEvilor dbus20:28
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MohammadAG<lardman> not sure what they do, but they looked nice20:34
MohammadAGdistance from focused object20:34
pupnik_can i use it to make a shoping list and track prices?20:36
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alteregoMohammadAG: my QML based dialer will be in the handset images for N900 DE starting from tomorrow ;)20:41
MohammadAGalterego, non-trolling question, how much ram does it take?20:42
alteregoNo idea20:42
* alterego checks20:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, what's your point?20:42
MohammadAGalterego, another thing, slide to answer? pwease?20:42
alterego16.9% when not shown.20:43
alterego15% when shown20:43
MohammadAGso 16.9% of RAM when it's not being used?20:43
MohammadAGdamn that's a lot :/20:43
* alterego chuckles.20:43
alteregoYeah, gonna need to look into that.20:43
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MohammadAGyou can't20:43
MohammadAGit's QML :P20:43
alteregoIt's QML+MTF actually20:44
alteregoAnd a load of other shit that isn't really needed.20:44
alteregoI imagine it could be streamlined a bit more, but that's quite typical for QML really.20:44
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (distance from focused object) would need some proper calibrating and compensation for a number of factors. It's just the current sent to an electromagnet moving the lens against some sping20:46
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so the conversation of this electric current value to some proper distance numbers needs quite some bits of mangling, probably even including device orientation relative to earth g20:49
pupnik_  RST38h20:49
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pupnik_nothing new about that really20:50
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MohammadAGalterego, a reason I hate QML tbh20:55
MohammadAGmy mediaplayer's entraintainment view doubles ram usage20:55
MohammadAGthat's why it's not there by default20:55
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no idea, it's a number returned by digicam (the backend)20:56
Treibholzgood bye guys! I switched to android...20:56
Treibholzwith a heavy heart...20:56
MohammadAGYou'll be back20:56
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yeah, and to there from v4l2 or sth20:56
TreibholzMohammadAG: I won't sell the n900! :-)20:56
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nevertheless aiui it's not calibrated anywhere20:57
Treibholzit will stay on my desk until I find something usefull, I can do with it.20:57
MohammadAGTreibholz, see? You're already back20:58
DocScrutinizerTreibholz: If you haven't managed to find anything by now, odds are it's definitely the wrong device/OS/concept for you and there'll be nothing any more exciting in the future20:58
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TreibholzDocScrutinizer: the Maemo Concept was great, it's just dead.20:59
DocScrutinizeroh? mine is pretty fine and alive here21:00
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DocScrutinizerand the basic idea of having the option to port basically arbitrary linux stuff to my pocket computer still delivers21:02
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TreibholzDocScrutinizer: Oh, my old Palm Vx is still working, too.21:02
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DocScrutinizermoot point21:04
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trxis there any good MySQL "explorer" on n900?21:05
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DocScrutinizersome weeks ago there's been a major new version of opera, and yesterday I updated marble21:06
DocScrutinizerrather depressing21:12
DocScrutinizertrx: maybe openoffice21:13
DocScrutinizeror any of the things that pop up on packet searck for "mysql"21:13
trxDocScrutinizer searched packages, no results21:14
trx(proper results)21:14
trxits actually a good news21:14
trxi'm gonna write one :)21:14
DocScrutinizertbh I don't know of any mysql explorer, no matter on which platform21:14
lardmansorry, was cooking21:15
chxDocScrutinizer: ?21:15
lardmanrm_you: mbarcode, doing ok, though on a break as it's been my end of year review time, so lots on at work21:15
trxDocScrutinizer PhpMyAdmin is really good, but web based..21:16
lardmanthe thought of new hw is making me think of addressing various bugs though21:16
GeneralAntillesI hate that 5400RPM drives have had a resurgence.21:16
DocScrutinizertrx: what's "web based"?21:16
lardmanMohammadAG: I assumed as much (re autofocus distance) though it wasn't the right number and didn't change (probably in macro mode I guess)21:16
GeneralAntillesI keep seeing them on Slickdeals and thinking they're real drives.21:16
trxDocScrutinizer its written in php, so you need a http server running21:16
DocScrutinizerwell, there seems to be a few to run on maemo ;-D21:17
lardmanpupnik_: re shopping lists, not quite, though it would be very easy to do, but I need to make it so21:17
* lardman heads back to the kitchen bbl21:17
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piggzalterego: awesome....will it accept calls without the dialler running?21:20
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DocScrutinizer(<alterego> I imagine it could be streamlined a bit more, but that's quite typical for QML really.) I think that's typical for current "generation" of embedded developers and projects at large. Nobody cares about lean code and performance, everybody jumps on the "it's so OO and cross-platform" train21:30
DocScrutinizereven qtmob demonstrating an amazing ignorance when it comes to system architecture details taking into account the real target platform21:31
RST38hDoc <-- riding his favorite horse again =)21:31
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RST38hDoc: Lemme throw a bit more wood onto the fire....21:32
RST38hSorry, this link:
GeneralAntillesRST38h: I'm bored.21:33
DocScrutinizernaaaah, not this again21:33
RST38hDoc: sorry it was stuck in my paste buffer, use the second one21:33
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DocScrutinizeroh, and that one doesn't look any better21:33
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DocScrutinizertales from the land of trolls and fools21:34
RST38hDoc: I mean, haven't people finished optimizing string.h contents 10-15 years ago?21:34
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DocScrutinizeryou dunno qstrings :-P21:38
DocScrutinizerwhere every char is an object21:38
RST38hnoooo...can't  be21:38
DocScrutinizerno kidding21:38
alteregoIt's not that inefficient though21:39
alteregoNot really.21:39
alteregoAnd a QChar isn't realy an object so to speak ..21:39
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alteregoAt least, not a QObject21:39
DocScrutinizerjust that a Qtextedit box has an overhead of textsize * 1000 to *1000021:39
RST38hI do suspect that sizeof(QChar) is 121:40
RST38hanyone willing to check?21:40
DocScrutinizererr, *100 to *100021:40
alteregoIt just needs to load the vtable once.21:40
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alteregoA string and a character are still the size they would otherwise be.21:40
alterego(in memory)21:40
DocScrutinizerand funny enough I've seen this gorgeous amount of used RAM just doubling on *closing*(!!) of that Qtestedit box21:41
alteregoHow do you know the memory is to do with the string and not the widget itself?21:42
DocScrutinizerI don't21:42
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SpeedEvilI was today amused at NXP - pushing 'an enhanced 32-bit RISC processor featuring improved coding efficiency  and up to 32MIPs performance, a fully compliant 2.4GHz IEEE802.15.4  transceiver, 128kB of ROM and 128kB of RAM'. As the one computer per light-bulb solution.21:43
DocScrutinizerjust know opening logs in twinkle is a friggin poor idea, when you got a logfile of ~1MB like I do21:44
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RST38hDoc: I do suspect it is mostly for rich text annotation21:44
RST38hstill would not requirethat much ram though21:44
DocScrutinizerI'd be amazed if a QString can't hold richtext as well21:45
RST38hSpeed: Got an email from someone who wanted to run VGB on the NXP chip today21:45
RST38hDoc: Why not ask at #meego? Maybe they can tell you why?21:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: VGB?21:46
alteregoGameboy emulator21:46
pupnik_Wow RST38h thanks for that link, the comments are an education for me21:46
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: here are some pics that kind of see what I saw:
alteregoIgnore the guys comments though, he's doing a fair amount of guess work in there ..21:52
* slonopotamus compiled 2.6.38 openwrt kernel for n800... time to try it21:53
infobotI'm not allowed to tell you21:57
infobotwell, lol is stands for Laughs Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.21:57
AcTiVaTeI have been unable to connect to Facebook chat on my N900. Did anything change that caused it to stop working or is my install just fubar?21:57
DocScrutinizeralterego: for all I know it could be a photoshopped hoax made from and a few other sources21:57
alteregoDocScrutinizer: they are all stills from the video21:58
DocScrutinizerI meant the video21:58
alteregoOh right21:58
alteregoYes, that is certainly a possibility, I find it quite unlikely.21:58
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alteregoThe models actually look very similar really. Though those leaked photos you just linked to do look like they're a prototype rather than the more refined design pictured in the video.22:00
GeneralAntillesGood lord what sort of odious pedant wrote that factoid. . . .22:00
DocScrutinizer~factinfo lol22:01
infobotlol -- last modified at Tue Aug 31 04:12:29 2004 by mentor!~matthew@mentor.registered; it has been requested 163 times, last by RST38h, 4m 1s ago; it has been locked by mentor.22:01
DocScrutinizermentor HAHA LOL22:01
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DocScrutinizernomen est omen ;-D22:02
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: so you'll be at the meego conf?22:02
* AcTiVaTe wonders if anyone even uses FB chat on their N900...22:04
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alteregoGAN900: will you be joining the rest of us running N900 Developer Edition?22:04
rm_youAcTiVaTe: not really :?22:05
alteregoI do actually,22:05
rm_youAcTiVaTe: i had problems once  a while back, doing an apt-get upgrade fixed it22:05
rm_youthere was some lib that got held back from the application manager upgrade, had to force it22:05
GeneralAntillesalterego: if it's not shit.22:05
GeneralAntillesrm_you: yes.22:06
AcTiVaTePerhaps that's my prob, I did a reflash recently and then a restore which already caused more probs. Such as the rtcom event db that I had to let recreate22:06
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alteregoGeneralAntilles: well, that depends what you mean, it's obviously not as feature full as Maemo, but it works quite nicely as is, making calls, receiving calls, sms etc.22:06
alteregoHaven't really used the calendar yet.22:06
GeneralAntillesI need working XChat, working GTalk/AIM, working FBReader, working browser, working SMS and working call.22:07
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GeneralAntillesand I don't feel like spending a week making that happen. :P22:07
alteregoNot likely then :)22:07
alteregoDon't you have a second N900?22:07
GeneralAntillesOne has a borken USB, the other is water damaged.22:08
alteregoNone are under warranty?22:08
* alterego got one replaced last week22:08
rm_youheh i had three n900s at one point22:08
GeneralAntillesThe USB one is a proto, the water one is, but I haven't worked myself up to sending it in yet.22:09
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rm_youone with broken USB and one that had some serious hardware issue, possibly bad RAM22:09
alteregoYou should put in the number for the water damaged one, and send in the usb one.22:09
alteregoThey wont check IMEI22:09
GeneralAntillesMy DDP device is currently on loan to a friend.22:09
alteregoAnd they wont repair water damage for free.22:09
GeneralAntillesThe proto says "Property of Nokia" on the inside.22:09
alteregoOkay :P22:10
GeneralAntillesIt wasn't a lot of water.22:10
GeneralAntillesIt was just the perfect amount to short out something important.22:10
alteregoHave you tried asking for another one? :P22:10
GeneralAntillesI've got a working one.22:10
GeneralAntillesSo, no.22:10
alteregoWell, I've got a spare spare, if you needed one22:10
GeneralAntillesNah, I've got one in good shape, so I'm OK.22:10
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alteregoI could stare at the MeeGo orientation transition for hours22:11
alteregoSo silky smooth ..22:12
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yigalI want to install Angry Birds, I tried out the Chrome version recently and realized I could easily waste 3 minutes/day playing this game22:14
rm_you" Intel blamed its partnership with Nokia, calling it a mistake. "In hindsight, Nokia was the wrong partner to have picked," said Otellini"22:14
GeneralAntillesLike Intel's any better than Nokia.22:14
GeneralAntillesBoth of them are amazingly incompetent.22:14
yigalhey guys here is the GMA 50022:14
yigalit will never really work very well for you, ya we're Intel22:14
rm_youi need to check that thing i signed for nokia a while back22:14
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rm_youi think it said i wasn't allowed to say anything negative about them for several years...22:14
alteregoYes, the normal Nokia agreement ;)22:15
alteregoI wouldn't take that _too_ seriously tbh22:15
yigaljust state the facts22:15
alterego"You are not allowed to state the facts, if the facts make us look bad"22:16
alteregoNope, can't do that either :P22:16
yigal:D, well that was expected22:16
yigalhow many years is this supposed to go on?22:16
rm_youdunno, that's what i was gonna check :P22:17
alteregorm_you: that was the thing you signed to get the device in Amsterdam right?22:17
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alteregoActually wasn't one of the clauses you weren't allowed to talk about it?22:20
alteregoOh, sounds like that one.22:20
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rm_you"I will not during the Term give any interview, provide any information or make any statement, whether in writing or orally, to any person, television company, radio station, newspaper, magazine or other media organisation, website or internet service which is or can be construed as being defamatory, derogatory or disparaging of W+K, the Client, its affiliates or employees or otherwise likely to adversely affect the commercial use of my Co22:20
rm_youthe Client = Nokia22:21
rm_youthe Term = 50 years22:21
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SpeedEvilA _50_ year NDA?22:23
SpeedEvilYou can however freely express your views on the product by Mime, interpretive dance, art, sculpture, ...22:25
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keriohow do you mime nokia?22:27
kerioshake your hand?22:27
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yigalis Ovi store open right now, and can I download Angry Birds somehow from it - I've never actually used Ovi store, never thought it would amount to much, self fulfilling prophecy perhaps22:28
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alteregorm_you: is it "50 years or if we sink, whatever comes first" ;)22:32
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rm_youi suppose :P22:39
lardmanjust seeing what I missed when I dropped out22:40
lardmanI sent off a "Property of Nokia" N900 for a warranty screen fix and got some strange reactions22:41
lardmanthey seemed to think I'd nicked the thing22:41
lardmannever sent it back to me of course22:41
ds3speaking of screen nicks, is the touch panel surface considered part of the case (for the purposes of looking at replacement parts)?22:42
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yigalanyone using natively compiled texlive for TeXing?22:47
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yigalah well had to change the general.useragent.override back to the original to get my Angry Birds, yay man I'm so behind the times22:55
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dRbiGgrr, witter left the led blinking blue - can I somehow kill that without resetting the whole device?23:29
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meceI guess you can :D23:39
piggzspace invaders 0.3 uploaded to extras-devel, now with global hi scores, so, get competing!23:47
piggzand, please dont break the  minor security i added to prevent fraudulent not running the playstation network!23:50
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Gh0styhmm fraudulent scores ^^23:53
RST38hNow, once you have said that.... =B)~23:53
Gh0stywonder what would be the hardest ... beating the game or beating your coode :p23:53
piggzi suspect it would be harder to break the code if it wasnt open source!23:54
RST38hAh holy fuck:
ruskietcpdump works well ;)23:54
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