IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-04-22

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cityLightswhat is wrong with this dbus python script? it doesnt work00:08
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mikki-kunhm, what is the proper dbus command to turn off vibrations on the n900 and reactivate them to the normal settings?00:20
mikki-kunpupnik: hm, so around 3 mA is a usual battery drain then for it?00:21
pupnikmikki-kun: i get around 5-6 with wifi + ssh and battery monitor00:22
ShadowJKWhat are you using for measuring?00:22
mikki-kunpupnik: which battery monitor are you using? i am using a script which is called bq2700.sh00:23
ShadowJKand, 5-6 is very low. It's equivalent to a week of standby00:23
mikki-kunwow, mine get's around 80 mA...00:23
mikki-kunwith wifi, but also skype00:23 is my script :)00:23
mikki-kunlol, -53 watt XD00:23
ShadowJKbut mine doesn't give watts :)00:23
mikki-kunmissed the "m" while laughing =p00:23
ShadowJKor mwatts :P00:24
ShadowJK80 is kinda high for: screen off, wifi, skype00:24
ShadowJK80 mA that is00:24
pupnikShadowJK: thanks for the script - use it all the time00:25
mikki-kunarghs, yeah, amps it is actually, not watts which are given... (both *10^-3 for coorect units)00:25
mikki-kunbut now i am getting adfter removing from th charger -50 mA...00:25
mikki-kuncool, were do i draw the energy from?00:26
ShadowJKFrom the battery00:26
mikki-kunmy electrosmog in the room?!00:26
kerioskype sucks power00:26
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ShadowJK- means that battery is discharging. If there is no "-", that means that the battery is getting charged.00:26
mikki-kunohhh, ok, then it makes sense x)00:26
ShadowJKSo if you want to measure how much power things use, you can't have charger connected00:26
mikki-kunbut -60 it is for me without skype :/00:26
pupnikwell there's a problem with hildon-desktop (bug known) consuming cpu00:26
pupnikthat's my current drain00:27
ShadowJKmikki-kun, do you do "./ 5" ?00:27
ShadowJKok :)00:28
mikki-kunman, killing py processes just draws more batt-power as they get restartet...00:28
ShadowJKOk, so I'm at -33mA myself, with wifi+skype+irx00:28
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mikki-kunahhh, for christs sake... i might redo my n900 and just just use selected apps...00:30
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mikki-kunbeen installing stuff i never used once just to have it once i might need it...00:30
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mikki-kunShadowJK: are you using the CSSU?00:31
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ShadowJKcatorize (or whatever it was called, the thing htat lets you rearrange your menus) is a known battery hog, btw00:32
mikki-kuni am using apmefo00:32
ShadowJKmight be fixed in cssu actually, not sure00:32
mikki-kunand actually it does help me getting faster through my menus00:32
mikki-kunohhh and i am using like 2 widgets only and two desktops from which one is empty00:33
pupnikwell don't freak out about standby drain00:33
mikki-kunso i got down from heavy widget-usage to just two, recaller and the conversations inbox00:33
mikki-kunpupnik: i freak out about the battery drain at my university00:33
mikki-kun300 mA is a minimum on their wifi...00:33
mikki-kunmy poor n900 goes down in no time00:34
mikki-kunand i am on powersaving...00:34
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ShadowJKno power saving support in the wifi access points :)00:34
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mikki-kunseems so... they sure need some of that online00:40
mikki-kunand they are the ones talking about "energy efficieny"00:41
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mikki-kunbtw, is there somehow a way i can check which dbus-commands are being transmitted when i switch certain options?00:43
BCMMis there a complete list of extra classes in maemo-qt somewhere?00:44
BCMM(it's kinda hard to find them by comparing and by eye)00:44
ShadowJKmikki-kun, dbus-monitor00:52
mikki-kunShadowJK: hm, is there one already preinstalled?00:53
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mikki-kunhm, do you know a way on how i could call it? :)00:54
BCMM"QTextEdit and QPlainTextEdit are fully Maemo 5 style guide compliant. This means that these widgets will not show scrollbars, will not allow the user to select text and will not have kinetic scrolling enabled by default." -- so Qt isn't supposed to be able to do something like the Notes app?00:54
mikki-kunno scrollbars? immense phail imho00:55
ShadowJKdbus-monitor --session00:55
ShadowJKor something00:55
ShadowJKlots of output00:55
ShadowJKtry --help and -h00:55
mikki-kunShadowJK: thanks, so it was for once a pretty straight forward command...00:56
mikki-kunomg Ö.ö yeah, lots of output indeed Ö.ö00:56
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mikki-kunlol, no -help x)00:58
BCMMmikki-kun: it's the lack of selection that bothers me00:58
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BCMMthe Notes app (GTK) has kinetic scrolling and finger-selection00:59
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mikki-kunwell, they merged with micro$h17 didn't they? their phones don't have c&p as well...00:59
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mikki-kunmay i ask what you are coding? :)01:07
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MohammadAG<BCMM> the Notes app (GTK) has kinetic scrolling and finger-selection01:19
MohammadAGsure it has kinetic scrolling?01:19
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MohammadAGoh cool, dsme is open01:46
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ds3open == source available?01:47
ds3hmmm backport to Mer01:49
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BCMMMohammadAG: quite right, i feel stupid now02:05
BCMMi'd been quite instinctively scrolling by extending the selection, without even realising it02:06
BCMMhow do i get the current user's home directory in Qt? QFile::open doesn't seem to like #02:07
BCMMto like ~/ much02:07
BCMMah, QDir::homePath02:09
BCMMoh, that too02:09
BCMMDocScrutinizer: that uses the environment variable?02:09
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DocScrutinizerQt for sure has a way more nifty way to do it02:10
BCMMQDir::homePath() seems to work02:11
BCMMthanks though02:12
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MohammadAGthere's another method I think02:13
BCMMit ought to support ~/02:14
BCMMi mean, if you let the user put in a path, and it has a ~/ in it, do you have to fix it yourself?02:14
MohammadAGI think there's a method to get ~/ on Linux, C:/Users/user on Windows etc02:15
MohammadAGoh that should work nvm02:16
nox-(and then pw_dir)02:17
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pupniki so hate not having an escape button02:24
Venemopupnik, remap the keyboard and make yourself one02:24
pupnikwhat, "Q"02:24
pupnikgreat idea02:26
pupnikyou remove 'q' from all instances of writing and programs on the planet02:27
pupnikthen i'll map it to escape02:27
DocScrutinizerBCMM: ~ is a shell thing02:27
BCMMit's also kinda a unix convention02:27
BCMMplenty of GUI apps work right with ~/02:27
DocScrutinizerno filesystem has a notion about meaning of ~02:27
MohammadAGI might be wrong but I think ~ works in Qt02:28
BCMMbut it's not just a shell thing02:28
DocScrutinizeractually ~ is a shortcut for ${HOME}02:28
MohammadAGqDebug() << QFile("~/file").exists()02:28
DocScrutinizerwhile ~user is even more complex02:29
MohammadAGif it works in Qt, that should be true02:29
BCMMit's a shell thing and a file manager thing (for any reasonable file manager) and a file-open dialog thing (for any reasonable toolkit), etc.02:29
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nox-<nox-> getpwnam()? <- ~user02:29
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: sure a lot of apps try to conform shell behaviour and syntax02:31
BCMMQString fileName = "~"; does not work and QString fileName = QDir::homePath(); does, in my application02:31
nox-its a useful convention02:31
BCMM(it is appended to afterwards)02:31
DocScrutinizerbut they could as well use ½ instead of ~02:31
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nox-haha ½02:32
BCMMyes, but they don't. all sensible shells use ~, and so do all sensible GUI apps02:33
DocScrutinizeryeah, still it's a shell thing, whatever shell you're using. Might be a file-open requester in Qt or whatever, but it's hardcoded there02:37
DocScrutinizer QString fileName = "~"; will set the filename to '~'02:37
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DocScrutinizerand you'll literally get a file named '~' if you open() for rw02:38
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MohammadAGlet's try that :p02:39
nox-yes sure02:39
nox-just for user input you should expand ~02:39
nox-and ~user too02:39
nox-(ok the latter i guess is less important on a phone...)02:40
DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> echo bla >\~x02:41
DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> ls -l ?x02:41
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 jr users    4 22. Apr 01:40 ~x02:41
MohammadAGand you're right02:42
DocScrutinizer\ is a shell thing, just like ~02:43
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DocScrutinizerjr@halley:/home/kicad> HOME=/home/jr/03:06
DocScrutinizerjr@halley:/home/kicad> cd03:06
DocScrutinizerjr@halley:/home/jr> HOME=/home/jr03:07
Sazpaimon/home/maemo/src/cross-toolchain/gmp-5.0.1+dfsg/build/tests/cxx/.libs/lt-t-locale: relocation error: /home/maemo/src/cross-toolchain/gmp-5.0.1+dfsg/build/tests/cxx/.libs/lt-t-locale: symbol _ZNSt8numpunctIcE22_M_initialize_numpunctEPi, version GLIBCXX_3.4 not defined in file with link time reference03:07
Sazpaimonwhat the hell03:07
Sazpaimonwhat is scratchbox doing03:07
DocScrutinizerlt-t-locale has been linked against a different version of
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SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, I see that, but how did it happen04:28
Sazpaimonis there some scratchbox gotcha that i missed?04:28
Sazpaimoni never had a problem like this until i switched to the x86 target04:29
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Termanagood morning04:30
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mikki-kunhm, did anyone else ever have error -110 when trying to flash their n900?04:56
mikki-kuni mean on the dmesg side...04:57
mikki-kunnot from flasher itself04:58
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jacekowskithat was cannot enumerate the device?05:31
jacekowskithat error -11005:31
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mikki-kunohhh, ok, got it... the n900 needed a coldboot06:01
mikki-kuni mean coldflash06:02
pupnik_what are you doing to your device06:05
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mikki-kuni did remove the nokia logo...06:11
mikki-kunbut wanted to reflash it now after a whle06:11
mikki-kungot a lil slow and such stuff06:12
mikki-kuni assume it might have been caused by the nokia logo... but now that i know my way around it...06:12
mikki-kunbut the usb worked seamlessly before the flashing06:12
mikki-kunand even after rebooting my netbook (one of the few occasions i change to a new kernel, yay to bleeding edge again x)) and still seeing it fail i assumed i must coldflash and got it done then :)06:14
mikki-kunnow remaking my important files06:18
mikki-kuni hope those close to 200MB were mostly only emails...06:18
mikki-kunsadly if you important contacts you need to import mail...06:18
mikki-kuni don't want some other random crap back like useless dirs06:20
mikki-kuni know, sounds pretty clean but once in a while it just has to be06:20
mikki-kunahhh, clean n900 booting fast :)06:21
mikki-kunmeh, and now installing app manager..06:22
mikki-kuni mean with the app manager..06:22
mikki-kuncause it's the only one capable of having the backup-list...06:22
mikki-kuni hate it really it being the only one capable of doing it :/06:23
pupniki'm so impressed with real programmers06:23
mikki-kunpupnik: but it's awesome to have removed the NOKIA-logo which shows up after reboot (jacekowski did there the work actually, without him i would have been really lost)06:24
pupnikhmm i dunno why you don't like the logo06:24
mikki-kuncause it's a huge NOKIA logo... i mean i know have one, they don't need to show me :)06:25
derfWait, how do you remove that?06:25
mikki-kunderf: with magic and a lot of indepth knowledge on nolo...06:25
derfYes, I know that much.06:26
mikki-kunwhich board do you have?06:26
mikki-kuni might be able to supply you with what has already been done06:26
derfProbably not, as I don't even understand your question.06:26
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mikki-kun*sigh* i can't find the thread from talk which points on how to find it out06:34
mikki-kunbut i am not sure if it is really stable06:34
mikki-kunand when youbreak on this level something it is more prone of truly turning into a brick i guess06:35
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mikki-kunohh, found the two responsible commands though... i just overlooked them06:43
mikki-kuncat /proc/component_version; cat /proc/cpuinfo <--- those two shoudl show your your board-version in one of them06:44
pupnikhw-build 2101 here06:45
derfHmm, my device is sitting on my desk at the office and not responding to ssh.06:45
mikki-kun:) we have the same board then :)06:45
mikki-kunmost probably laggy wireless on it06:45
derfYes. It interacts pretty terribly with the router we have there.06:46
pupniki have to keep a ping running on my device06:46
pupnikto ssh to it06:46
mikki-kunit does help to prevent it dying06:46
mikki-kunluckily my home-network is pretty good though06:46
pupnikdid you see lcuk's fix for wobbly power connector?06:47
pupnikhe opened the board and inserted a shim between the usb connector and the thing right above it06:47
pupnikopened the unit06:47
mikki-kunwuhu, 79 days on-time for my server :)06:49
mikki-kunohhh, haven't, my usb is pretty solid so far06:49
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mikki-kunthe only thing i am concerned about might be uberbig power-draw06:49
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mikki-kunand my install takes like 780MB :/06:50
mikki-kunbut i still left two or three apps which are nice to have, like stellarium :)06:50
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mikki-kunif the weather gets warmer i might just go out and look at the stars06:50
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mikki-kunohhh, i should finally check how my server works as my alarm clock...07:03
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pupnikvangelis did some great tunes back in the 70s-80s07:33
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yigalhello, I decided to do the previous Community Update and when I rebooted I lost my /home/MyDir partition I'm not sure what /dev it is or if I've really lost it.  Anyway it's been about a week and I'm wonderig if anyone has an idea as to what has happened to it :)08:45
yigaln900 user sorry08:45
robbiethe1styigal: open a terminal08:46
robbiethe1stsudo gainroot08:46
yigalok root coming one sec08:46
robbiethe1stthen try "mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /home/user/MyDocs"08:47
yigalok one sec08:47
yigalrobbiethe1st: one sec I've got to make a new folder as MyDocs has been populated by a few other things in the mean time08:47
yigalyikes it's giving me weird stuff, but ty that makes good sense08:49
robbiethe1stSo? it'll mount over top of em08:49
robbiethe1stand "hide" them for you08:49
yigalI need to ssh into my sweet n900 one sec08:49
yigalI'm not sure why it's telling me this08:51
yigal/home/user # mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 MyDocs08:51
yigalmount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on MyDocs failed: Invalid argument08:51
yigalah no relative path one sec08:51
robbiethe1stabsolute path08:51
robbiethe1stand it's mount what where08:52
yigalsame problem?08:52
yigal/home/user # mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /home/user/MyDocs08:52
yigalmount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs failed: Invalid argument08:52
yigalit's in /etc/fstab08:53
yigalnot sure if that helps08:54
yigal/dev/mmcblk0p1 /home/user/MyDocs vfat noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir 0 008:55
yigalthat's its entry08:55
yigalI'm gonna reinstall mount?08:56
slonopotamusyigal: is there /dev/mmcblk0p1 at all?08:56
slonopotamusmount | grep mmcblk0p108:57
slonopotamusmount can give invalid argument if device is already mounted08:58
yigalone sec I used sudo su which initially appeared to work as I didn't install gainroot on this machine, so I think robbiethe1st's suggestions are valid08:58
robbiethe1stwhat's in /home/user/mydocs now?08:59
robbiethe1stCause yea, it /may/ be mounted08:59
yigalnot mounted08:59
yigaldf mount no sign of 0p108:59
yigalbut one sec, and thank you for the help08:59
robbiethe1stGo install Backupmenu; reboot with keyboard open, plug it into a PC via USB, hit "w", and access it that way09:00
robbiethe1stThen you can back things up and restore as needed09:00
* slonopotamus wonders if "one sec" is the latency09:00
yigalok, one sec ~ 5-10 minutes sorry for lack of quantative precision09:01
slonopotamusyigal: you're just saying it over and over again :)09:01
yigalya, my root access is going berzerk09:02
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yigalcan't win, :D09:02
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slonopotamusyigal: so, "mount | grep mmcblk0p1" outputs nothing?09:03
yigalok rootsh and backupmenu installing via faster app manager wish I could apt-get these but well hopefully after the download09:04
yigalslonopotamus: mount | grep 0p1 - gets nothing09:04
slonopotamusokay. now, is there anything in dmesg after you try to mount it and get Invalid argument? btw, to be sure, mount with "-t vfat" flag09:05
yigalno same bad stuff after gaining root through, "root" via rootsh package09:05
robbiethe1stcan't help09:05
yigalslonopotamus: good point one sec09:05
yigalrobbiethe1st: ahh, you tried dude, that's huge09:05
robbiethe1stAll I can really say is that filesystems on the N900 can be finicky; most of the time it's the OptFS that dies, though09:06
yigalya the file system isn't ext* so I'm not expecting much :D09:07
yigalwell parts are but not the personal storage09:07
yigalslonopotamus: no dmesg doesn't seem to have anything in it?09:08
robbiethe1stWell, the optfs /is/ ext* (ext3 I think) and it ends up dying for some people quite a bit. The FAT32 mydocs should be fixable, though it may require access from a PC09:08
slonopotamusrobbiethe1st: /opt is same fs as /home, surprise. and it's plain ext309:08
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yigalhmm will the, fsch.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p1, something like that I should try that09:09
yigalthen I'll call it quits09:09
yigalthanks dudes09:09
robbiethe1stUh, yea. /home/user/MyDocs however is a different filesystem; I just call the home/opt "optfs"09:09
robbiethe1styigal: should be dosfsck /dev/mmcblk0p109:10
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yigalwhy? mmcblk0p1 is vfat09:12
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yigalI mean if we're using defaults09:13
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robbiethe1stYes; dosfsck = fsck for fat09:15
yigalbut fsch.vfat is also?09:16
robbiethe1stones a simlink to the other09:19
robbiethe1stbut it's 'fsck.vfat'09:19
robbiethe1stK, not H09:19
robbiethe1sta lot like F**K :P09:19
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yigalfor me it's just easier to remember fsck.<TAB><TAB>09:23
yigalyou're more l33t09:26
pupnikconfusing - nothing taking up cpu yet 30mA is consumed09:32
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pupnikmaybe oprofile kernel module09:33
robbiethe1stpupnik: /evetything's/ off? including all radios?09:34
pupnikno but i had below 7mA before with wifi on and ssh running09:34
robbiethe1stthat seems too low...09:34
robbiethe1stI mean, you'd be talking /at least/ 10mA in transmitted power, figure 20-30mA into it09:35
robbiethe1stplus what's needed for the CPU at 250mhz most of the time09:35
pupnikrunning wifi without encryption btw09:35
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pupniklet's see how it does after rebootthen09:36
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pupnikafter reboot down to 5-7 mA battery use with ssh + wifi robbiethe1st09:41
robbiethe1stWhat about with screen on?09:41
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pupnikthat is variable with brightness09:41
pupnikover 11009:41
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keriohow do i check that?09:53
robbiethe1stProbably with a couple of wires, a multimeter, and a benchtop power supply09:54
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trumeeshortcutd with proximity sensor is very flaky10:24
trumeemost of the time proximity sensor doesnt work10:25
trumeethe camera sensor/button works perfect though10:25
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trumeecrap, proxymityd wasnt running. wondery why? had to reinstall shortcutd10:33
trumeeand now it works10:33
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zr0when i refresh tracker on my n900, i always seem to get a few random songs shoved into "untitled album", "untitled artist" that are tagged correctly. what gives?10:42
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zr0and this is after i run a short script to remove all .mediaartlocal dirs within my media10:43
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cityLightsI am trying to call a method every 1sec using gobject. why do I see output only once?12:58
piggzi seem to have an issue with the uboot packate for kernel-power...whenever i install it, it boots the sd card, but not kernel-power...ive no problem with the regular uboot, am i being stupid?  do i ahve to instal the kernel and uboot part ina particular order?12:59
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keks-nWhy do you use uboot instead of multiboot?13:01
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keks-nI have kernel-power, nitdroid and BackupMenu now. With multiboot it's quite simple13:02
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userkeks-n: cool13:04
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keks-nBTW, is there any autobuilder in garage? I still have no access to extras-devel but want to check that my packages compiles in it13:06
DocScrutinizerkeks-n: multiboot is crap and strongly deprecated13:06
DocScrutinizerpiggz: uBoot is packaged with the kernel13:06
keks-nBut it works13:07
DocScrutinizerpiggz: ...I.E. both live in same partition and can't get installed separately13:07
DocScrutinizerkeks-n: actually no it doesn't13:07
keks-nBut why it boots everything I tell it?13:08
piggzkeks-n: to boot meego13:09
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keks-nMeeGo isn't usable yet13:09
piggzkeks-n: so?13:09
keks-nBTW, have anyone managed to boot meego using kexec?13:10
piggzDocScrutinizer: so, it should be just a case if installing uboot-power? (which i have tried im sure)13:11
DocScrutinizerpiggz: there's a powerkernel+uBot pkg somewhere in extras-devel13:11
DocScrutinizerwhich I'm using on one of my devices and works fine13:12
piggz ?13:12
DocScrutinizer(thanks MohammadAG )13:12
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DocScrutinizerpiggz: yes13:13
piggzDocScrutinizer: well, i may aswell try again, worst that can happen is i have to reflash the kernel (again!) ;)13:17
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DocScrutinizerumm, not exactly. Kernel needs its modules13:17
DocScrutinizereverybody likes to forget about that detail13:18
DocScrutinizermost common cause of bootloops13:18
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DocScrutinizerbut for me installation of that uboot-power pkg was straight forward13:19
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DocScrutinizerit's important to install modules kernal flasher all 3 in right sequence. HAM will take care13:20
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DocScrutinizerinstallation via apt-get takes a tiny bit more care about what you're doing13:21
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DocScrutinizerbtw that's (modules) exactly why multiboot is broken - you can't deinstall it13:24
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DocScrutinizerand it will mess up system beyond recover (= flash it) when you interrupt the insane flashing of kernel and modules at *each* boottime13:25
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DocScrutinizeralso installing any new kernel after multiboot got installed will break at very least multiboot, but likely also the new kernel and thus the whole system -> reflash13:28
DocScrutinizerergo: multiboot is crap, nobody except nitdroid folks needs it, and so it's deprecated13:29
robbiethe1st^^ One hopes it will die, but just like VB, it will probably linger around for years, causing pain for everyone13:30
DocScrutinizer(nitdroid folks as well could have changed to use of uBoot since long - simply they don't care about all the problems they cause, as long as their crap works)13:30
keks-n>>just like VB13:30
keks-nWhat do you have agains it?13:30
robbiethe1stIs there any protocol for getting rid of dangerous packages? Flashing the kernel on boot seems 'dangerous' enough to me...13:31
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keks-nA good language for the times when it was released13:31
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: pester x-fade to nuke the package :-D13:31
DocScrutinizerBASIC never been a good language in any respect13:32
robbiethe1stAnd now, there's almost no reason to ever see or use it13:32
keks-nVB was the best solution for COM interaction13:32
robbiethe1stWell, perhaps that's the problem?13:33
keks-nHave you ever tried to interact with COM from C++?13:33
keks-nIt's nightmare13:33
robbiethe1stGet rid of COM?13:33
keks-nIn 90-th?13:33
ruskienobody has still gotten rid of COM an windows :(13:34
* robbiethe1st raises hand13:34
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keks-nIt looks like, that I've got it working13:37
keks-nMono 2.10.1 + GTK bindings + MonoDevelop13:37
robbiethe1stKeep those evil Windows things out of our pristine Linux machines!13:38
robbiethe1stalso, read http://thedailywtf.com13:39
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* DocScrutinizer now finally has a walk to bathroom - throwing up13:39
keks-nAt least mono is better then java13:40
DocScrutinizerVB, COM, now even MONO... too much13:40
keks-nOK. What do you suggest? Python?13:41
robbiethe1stI dunno; Java /does/ work cross-platform, relatively fast. Not nearly as good as native, but oh well...13:41
robbiethe1stPython, C++...13:41
keks-nMono also work pretty fast13:41
keks-nFaster then python13:41
keks-nI'm using it to host ASP.NET applications on my Linux servers and have no problems with perfomance13:42
DocScrutinizersure, and it only brought my 512MB desktop intel system to a grinding halt like 50 times13:42
robbiethe1stWell, you could probably port it to PHP and do 10x as much with the same computer13:42
keks-nActually I've ported the engine FROM php13:42
robbiethe1stAdmittedly, PHP's not great... but I'd use it over Mono.13:42
keks-nAnd got about 5 times better perfomance13:43
robbiethe1stOptimize it better, then?13:43
DocScrutinizeresp when some gasheads at Suse decided to build their new packet manager with mono components (buzzword red carpet)13:43
keks-nWhy should I use php instead of compilable language with strong typization?13:44
robbiethe1stBecause of that last bit. Loose typing makes things easy.13:44
robbiethe1stLet me just say that I won't have Mono installed on my desktop or computers. Nor Silverlight. Flash is OK(but I block it all the time), and Java is... a necessary evil. Mainly for Runescape.13:44
keks-nI use it for web13:45
Venemokeks-n, so you managed to get Mono 2.10 working on Maemo?13:45
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robbiethe1stI dispise MS products now, ever since they came out with a "student version" of VB6 that didn't have the "web control" element or whatever it was called. They lost my buisness /forever/ with that little thing.13:45
Venemokeks-n, just ignore them. I'm happy we finally have Mono13:46
Venemorobbiethe1st, Mono is not an MS product13:46
robbiethe1stNo, but what it runs /is/13:46
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I hope installation comes with a free RAM upgrade to 512MB at very least13:46
VenemoDocScrutinizer, :P13:46
robbiethe1stIt would be like saying OpenJDK isn't an Oracle/sun product; Sure, OpenJDK wasn't developed by them, but the language was.13:47 == microsoft. Mono wasn't, but who cares? Language still has MS stuff in it13:47
Venemoand who cares?13:48
DocScrutinizermono definitely is the most evil rogue resource hog BS thing I ever seen on any unixoid machine13:48
VenemoDocScrutinizer, that was true maybe 5-10 years ago. but not now.13:48
DocScrutinizeroooh sorry, I forgot this c+++++ library, what it's called? BOOST13:49
keks-nDon't remind about it -_-13:49
DocScrutinizeralmost has the potential to beat MONO on BS-factor13:49
VenemoDocScrutinizer, for example, the Banshee media player (which uses the evil Mono) consumes less resources on my machine than Totem movie player (that's written in C)13:49
robbiethe1stBut seriously, for something like the N900 you want as much optimization as you can get: Python works good for GUI-scripting, as all the /hard/ stuff's being done natively in C++.  Most intensive code should be done using C/C++ for performance, IMHO.13:49
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Venemorobbiethe1st, ever heard of JIT?13:50
robbiethe1stYes. And, near as I can tell, it will /never/ be as fast as a good standard compiler13:50
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keks-nI'm thinking about enabling AOT-cache for it13:50
DocScrutinizerpython has JIT13:50
Venemorobbiethe1st, well anyway, don't use it if you don't like it.13:51
robbiethe1stI won't, thank you very much.13:52
DocScrutinizermono, the useless porting effort of a redmond based me-too java competitor13:52
VenemoDocScrutinizer, you wouldn't say that if you actually knew it better.13:52
DocScrutinizerI know it well enough to know I know it too good already13:53
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DocScrutinizerI wish I never had heard of it :-P13:53
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SpeedEvilVenemo: Also - JIT relies on specific per-arch optimisation, for obvious reasons.13:55
DocScrutinizeryou know how I learned to know about what's MONO? while digging thru ps and trying to unlock my machine13:55
VenemoSpeedEvil, correct. and?13:55
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, so how come that it works for me?13:55
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DocScrutinizerfor me mono is for windows amateurs that want to use their useless windows knowledge on unix, rather than learning about proper methods13:58
DocScrutinizerIT'S AN INVASION!!!13:58
keks-nHaters gonna hate13:59
keks-nIt's good for cross-platform development. The bundle with the runtime and GTK bindings is about 10-15M14:00
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keks-nAnd the same binaries work on all platforms14:00
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keks-nCan be obfuscated as well14:01
keks-nThe best solution for easy development of commercial cross-platform applications14:01
DocScrutinizerof course, a lib based on a language M$ invented as they didn't like to adhere to java standards, now is good for cross platform14:01
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, java is horseshit and you know it.14:02
DocScrutinizerit HAS TO BE, as for sure that's been the major goal of M$ when inventing .net14:02
VenemoI haven't seen any sane java application yet.14:03
Venemoso yeah14:03
ruskieI haven't see any sane .NET app yet as well14:04
DocScrutinizersame here for .net/mono14:04
ruskiebut of course .NET|Java make developing cheap...14:04
Venemothat's their purpose14:04
DocScrutinizerand using expensive14:04
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ruskieto bad it's also useless for anyone who doesn't actually want to have anything of that...14:04
ruskiehell my boss is looking into if we can re-do a silverlight thingy in html and js... simply because it's faster...14:05
ruskiethe only downside... needs a webdesigner and someone who actually wants to deal with JS14:05
robbiethe1stHeh, I bet it is14:05
* robbiethe1st raises hand: I could probably do it14:05
ruskieand we mostly have .NET and one Java person...14:05
ruskieand that java person is being requalified to .NET as well14:06
ruskieboss considers Java to big of a risk...14:07
ruskiewe had a major project that should have been PMed better...14:07
ruskiewhich was why the costs were way way way above what they should have been14:07
ruskieso yeah... lets not do java anymore because of that14:07
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yacc_ruskie, well JS nowadays is not really that bad :)15:01
ruskiethat's a joke right?15:02
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crashanddieruskie, maybe your boss wants to redo something done in silverlight in HTML/JS because there's more support for it?15:17
ruskiejust performance15:18
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keriosilverlight is horrible15:41
kerioit's almost as bad as flash15:41
ruskiethey are the same beast... just different coat...15:43
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Khertan<crashanddie> ruskie, maybe your boss wants <<< most of time boss without technical knowledge forcing to use one techno over an other one, just because it s more hype ....16:03
Khertancrashanddie: and most of time it s a huge failure16:04
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ZogGMohammadAG, new MK9 is cool, you should play16:18
MohammadAGZogG, I was part of quality testing for that16:19
ZogGMohammadAG nooooo way16:20
ZogGMohammadAG, but your ps3 is JB isn't it?16:20
MohammadAGno, what's MK9 :P16:20
ZogGMohammadAG mortal kombat 916:20
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MohammadAGZogG, oh, I thought it was a gun16:23
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ZogGMohammadAG =)16:25
ZogGMohammadAG, with all respect and love i feel towards you i wouldn't give you a gun, you can get bad influence from @bad@ people16:25
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MohammadAGZogG, not even a water gun? :(16:31
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ZogGMohammadAG tag gun16:41
mikki-kunhm... is there a way the n900 can be forced into mass storage mode?16:43
ZogGmikki-kun you plug in you choose mass storage16:44
mikki-kunZogG: it doesn't have the desired effect :)16:45
mikki-kunthat's why i ask16:45
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DocScrutinizermikki-kun: yeah, fix the problem16:58
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DocScrutinizerQ: "Is there a way to force on my living room ceiling light?" A: "use the light switch!" R: "this doesn't work, that's why I ask"17:00
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: there is a reason why i am asking, i ain't an electrician and checked the button already =p17:01
DocScrutinizeryour question should be "Why is mass storage mode failing when I plug in N900 to PC?"17:01
DocScrutinizerA: I dunno17:02
DocScrutinizermaybe PC, maybe cable broken, maybe maemo system messed up17:02
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mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: doesn't it imply, when asking for "how to force the n900 into mass stoage mode?" that it is most likely plugged into a pc?17:06
lcukmikki-kun, reboot n90017:07
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: it first of all implies there'd be a way to force something that should happen without forcing it17:08
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lcukalternatively, close the apps that are using MyDocs and try again17:08
DocScrutinizerso the question is basically wrong17:09
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: good point17:09
mikki-kunhm, it's a fresh boot of it17:09
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* DocScrutinizer suggests lsof|grep MyDocs17:09
mikki-kunohhh, wow, waiting for a minute and then telling it to go into mass storage did the trick knda...17:10
mikki-kunmight just restart all over again, fresh install actually...17:11
mikki-kunsomewhere along the path something must have gone wrong...17:11
DocScrutinizerI think something kept filehandles open on MyDocs, possibly trackerd17:12
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DocScrutinizertrackerd might take a few seconds to cleanly quit a scan17:12
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mikki-kunhow does trackerd have more priority over the system than i have?17:12
DocScrutinizererrr humm. Because trackerd is smarter than you? ;-P17:13
mikki-kuntrackerd is a powerhoger -.-17:13
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mikki-kunand is pretty annoying in some instances...17:14
mikki-kuni don't care if it is just about to finish it's database... when i want to transfer files it needs to redo it anyway, so why let it make a database which is about to get wiped anyway?17:15
lcukDocScrutinizer, I solved n900 wobbly charger problem on my device :)17:15
DocScrutinizerand barely trainable via tracker-cfg app17:15
DocScrutinizerlcuk: :-D how?17:15
lcukDocScrutinizer, well the power socket was starting to come loose so had to hold device still to charge it17:16
lcukso I opened up my n900 and took a peek inside17:16
lcukturns out, overlapping the power plug17:16
lcukthere is a circuit board for the MMC17:17
DocScrutinizerfixed with nasty ds sticky17:17
lcukI wedged some card between the top of the usb plug and that board17:17
lcukso that when it is all back together the card pushes the power plug back onto the board17:17
Sazpaimonhey DocScrutinizer17:18
lcukit is not a total fix and would not work if the connector is fully off17:18
Sazpaimonany idea what might be causing that error to pop up that i posted yesterday?17:18
lcukbut it adds some stability17:18
DocScrutinizerlcuk: wow that's like fixing tower of Pisa with a packthread17:18
DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: sorry, missing context17:19
Sazpaimon/home/maemo/src/cross-toolchain/gmp-5.0.1+dfsg/build/tests/cxx/.libs/lt-t-locale: relocation error: /home/maemo/src/cross-toolchain/gmp-5.0.1+dfsg/build/tests/cxx/.libs/lt-t-locale: symbol _ZNSt8numpunctIcE22_M_initialize_numpunctEPi, version GLIBCXX_3.4 not defined in file with link time reference17:20
mikki-kunAHHHHH, i'll make a fresh install of it basically, every single app hand-picked again...17:20
Sazpaimonthis happens during compilation17:20
Sazpaimonmaybe scratchbox's toolchain is linking to a different version of glibc?17:20
DocScrutinizerduh, toldya I think you linked lt-t-locale against a "wrong" glibc17:20
Sazpaimoni dont know, it doesnt happen on an armel target17:20
lcukDocScrutinizer, heh17:20
DocScrutinizererr libstdc++17:20
SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, obviously, but how did it happen in scratchbox17:21
mikki-kunand most importantly a handful of apps getting high priority, rootsh, fapman, bash and openssh17:21
DocScrutinizernfc, I try to stay away from SB17:21
mikki-kunsolving a problem on the n900? reinstall maemo...17:22
mikki-kunsolving a problem in gentoo: just boot into a shell and do your work from there...17:22
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: the problem first needs proper investigation, then a proper fix17:22
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DocScrutinizermikki-kun: basically there's absolutely ZERO difference in that respect between gentoo and maemo17:23
MohammadAGKhertan, why did you open a bug report for the MR? :P17:24
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DocScrutinizermikki-kun: there's no priority issue with your setup. It's just trackerd (IF it really been trackerd that caused the hang) needs some time to cleanup, as ke-recv on detecting MassStorageMode selected doesn't kill -9 the trackerd17:25
mikki-kunhm, there is... somehow some emerge went misserably wrong and i had loads of 20+ on my netbook... i then had to just kill it, and my harddisk was said to be corrupted... still it went on with what it had to do, even without it actually being properly booting... i had full control over it. so far i haven't found an easy way, if you screw around with some system-files on how to repair it from it's infinite boot-cycle17:25
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KhertanMohammadAG: MR ?17:26
Khertanah merge request17:26
DocScrutinizerso if there are several threads indexing all those 22GB of mp3, and a lot of those process texts got swapped out, it will inevitably take some time to quit the processes gently17:26
Khertanbecause i' ve read the wiki17:26
Khertanand better for follow ?17:26
SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, so how do you target maemo when compiling then17:26
Sazpaimoniirc scratchbox is the only thing that provides a chroot that hs the same glibc version that maemo uses17:27
DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: probably17:27
DocScrutinizernfc about SB17:27
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: i killed trackerd before trying it again...17:28
KhertanMohammadAG: this isn't the way to do ?17:28
DocScrutinizerask those who use it several hours every day, like e.g. MohammadAG17:28
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: but have you found a way to rescue an n900 from a reboot-loop so far? if you have, please let me know17:29
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DocScrutinizera lot of reboot loops can get stopped so you can fix the cause, by enabling R&D and no-wd17:30
DocScrutinizerrescue-initrd is another way to fix a bootlooping system17:30
DocScrutinizeror simply booting meego and then mounting the maemo rootfs there to fix it17:31
DocScrutinizersee manpage/readme of flasher17:31
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DocScrutinizerthere are two watchdog flags you can set to off for R&D mode17:32
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: no-wd isn't explained, just mentioned as a flag you can set...17:33
DocScrutinizerthere's a omap-wd and a sw-wd iirc17:33
DocScrutinizerboth a watchdogs that make system reboot when not serviced17:34
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mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: yeah, but what does it help me if somebody tells me "ohh and you could just set this and that" but no explanation is given?17:35
mikki-kunit basically doesn't help me a thing :)17:36
MohammadAGno-omap-wd is for the hardware watchdog17:36
MohammadAGI suggest you don't disable that17:36
MohammadAGno-lifeguard-reset is what you want17:36
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: see, already one guy who gives his suggestions on what not to do :)17:36
mikki-kunand i trust he has played around with it enough to tell out of experience :)17:37
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: so don't ask me things please17:39
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: or send money for a precise answer with warranty17:40
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mikki-kunohhh, wow... and i thought we were in a chat were we could tell our thoughts...17:41
DocScrutinizerhere's a free last tip:17:41
infobothmm... question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
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crashanddienow both shut up before I /kb y'all.18:12
* RST38h yawns, wonders what is going on18:13
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crashanddiedoc and mikki have entered a pissing contest about and hour ago.18:21
Khertan.... .... .... ....18:23
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RST38hstatic, indeed.18:34
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: clean your glasses18:34
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer, hmm?18:35
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: I can't see any pissing contest18:35
penguinbaitcheck your shoes, it usually ends up there18:36
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* MohammadAG tries out MeeGo DE18:45
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MohammadAGthey got a splash screen for bootup18:45
MohammadAGseems to be a major improvement over the last images I've tried18:46
Sazpaimonis the UI still shit?18:46
MohammadAGI just got a dialog18:47
MohammadAGwhen I opened the phone app18:47
MohammadAG"Dialer sucks, do you want to close it?"18:47
SazpaimonI'll take that as a yes, then18:47
MohammadAGthis is lulz18:47
RST38hMohammad: Press NO!18:48
Sazpaimonhas anyone tried alien on meego18:48
Sazpaimonto convert existing maemo debs to rpms18:48
Sazpaimon(and you know, see if they actually work)18:48
chadidoesn't alien do the opposite?18:48
Sazpaimonit can go both ways i believe18:48
MohammadAGRST38h, I did, I kind of expect it to say "We have no dialer, we expected you to press yes"18:49
Sazpaimonsudo alien -r pytube_0.0.8.1-1_all.deb18:49
Sazpaimonpytube- generated18:49
Sazpaimonthough ironically it seems alien is only available as a deb on debian18:50
Sazpaimonso you'd need to use alien to convert alien into an rpm18:50
Sazpaimonthough alien does have some debian-centric dependencies i believe18:51
Sazpaimonyou may be able to --nodeps it though18:52
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chadithanks for the info18:53
Sazpaimonpersonally i try to make any rpm based system as debian-centric as I can18:54
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Sazpaimonfirst thing i do is forego yum and install apt18:54
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pupnikif you can paypal scott horton a couple bucks now is the time19:23
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eval-is there a copy of N810/N900 skype anywhere?19:32
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pupnikeval-: yes19:33
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jacekowskieval-: already installed in a phone19:36
eval-jacekowski: I need some sort of extracted version (with libs as seen in 'ldd' and helper apps if possible)19:37
jacekowskinot possible19:37
jacekowskiit depends on lot of closed stuff in n90019:37
jacekowskiand other way round19:37
jacekowskiand lot of that is hardware specific19:38
eval-n810 version as well?19:38
eval-(so there is no hope for these copies of skype to work on any other ARM devices)19:38
eval-even with LD_PRELOAD, library wrappers and other tricks?19:39
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jacekowskilot of nasty tricks19:46
jacekowskiyou would have to pull like half of n900 libraries19:46
jacekowskior n81019:46
jacekowskiand use loads of ram19:47
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eval-but all the source is open, yes?19:48
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eval-so we could conceivably write wrappers for all the functions whose symbols are needed by skype?  i guess it would be a hellish effort though19:49
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DocScrutinizerit'd probably be easier to run x86 skype in a qemu under windows20:16
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ShadowJKor x86 linux skype in qemu-user?20:20
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DocScrutinizernah, linux skype is kinda borked20:21
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DocScrutinizerand there's windows under qemu running on N90020:21
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DocScrutinizerno skype here, anywhere ;-)20:24
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DocScrutinizernuked it when I said "F* U, that's been it with me as betatester. Skype's too stupid"20:25
DocScrutinizertook them a year to implement ALSA support, and when they finally came up with it it's been as bad and broken as it could get20:26
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eval-jacekowski:  i think you are right.  this looks unfeasibly complicated.20:27
macmaNDocScrutinizer: you were skype betatester? i am too and tldr; = i feel you20:28
macmaNesp. on os x, just recently the interwebs took note bigtime too20:30
DocScrutinizeryup, been betatester, but that's like 5 years ago20:30
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macmaNwell i am on my first full-linux laptop now and getting to feel linux skype in detail20:31
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macmaNtheyre just not putting resources into it20:31
macmaNbut 2.2 works stable enough for multichatting..20:32
DocScrutinizerwhen they came up with their totally idiotic and broken ALSA implementation, while the one I supported on twinkle worked fine, and they didn't even listen to me about what's wrong with theirs, I stopped that useless effort and forgot about skype. Just in time to avoid the first virus attacks and shit20:32
compengiis there any community side work on maemo project?20:33
macmaNgiven up on skype on mobile though, you need server side (bitlbee) solution20:33
macmaNyeah, they are rich so they ignore a lot of stuff20:33
infobotcssu is, like,
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pupnik200 dpi screens.  i dreamed about that as a kid20:46
* lcuk dreamed about touchscreens in general20:47
pupnikthey said we'd have flat panel TVs 'in a couple of years' back in 198420:48
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SpeedEvil200dpi screens - but only on your phone.20:54
SpeedEvilOf course you can't have them on your desktop/laptopmonitor.20:55
pupnikdon't really need20:55
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SpeedEvilI do.20:55
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compengiis there any community side work on maemo project? like fixing bugs or updating applications or having a milestone?20:58
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compengii'm affected by a very annoying bug, so i'm interested20:59
pupnikbe specific20:59
compengithis bug
povbotBug 11444: Virtual keyboard messes up text in Email20:59
compengiwhen i enter text via virtual keyboard, it's fine. but when i edit it, it gets messed up sometimes21:01
compengii've tried it on all applications, it's the same21:01
chadiI have the same problem. I'm voting21:03
chadialthough I would say it's random21:03
compengichadi, it's very annoying21:03
chadirather than always reproducable21:03
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chadicompengi: I rarely use the virtual keyboard, that's why I am not very bothered21:06
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DocScrutinizer>>The Community Seamless Software Update (CSSU) is being developed by the Maemo community as a continuation of, and expansion on, Nokia's update support. It aims to deliver fixes which would be difficult to deliver through Extras (like core Maemo packages)21:19
MohammadAGkeyboard's closed source21:21
MohammadAGMeeGo's definitely headed in the right direction21:21
wmarone__soft keyboard or something?21:25
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wmarone__how is the keyboard closed source?21:28
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MohammadAGvirtual keyboard21:30
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pupnikSecurity researchers have discovered that Apple's iPhone keeps track of where you go – and saves every detail of it to a secret file on the device which is then copied to the owner's computer when the two are synchronised.21:38
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derfWelcome to two days ago.21:39
pupnikWarden and Allan point out that the file is moved onto new devices when an old one is replaced21:39
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pupnikApple can legitimately claim that it has permission to collect the data: near the end of the 15,200-word terms and conditions for its iTunes program, used to synchronise with iPhones, iPods and iPads, is an 86-word paragraph about "location-based services".21:41
wmarone__pupnik: thank you for the old news21:42
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ArGGu^^what has happend to maemo-qt channel :S21:47
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MohammadAGI'd ask here anyway21:50
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compengii updated the device to the community newest release, and i noticed that there is an autorotation functionality in it, is that new? because i don't remember that the menu icons could rotate vertically21:57
Venemogood evening Maemo21:57
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Venemocompengi, yes, it's new stuff22:03
Venemocompengi, also new is the portrait-mode task launcher and task navigator22:03
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beford#meego is madness.22:09
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compengii get massive dcc recv22:09
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compengiVenemo, cool.. i see that the cam-ui is changed too22:11
VenemoI haven't noticed that one yet22:11
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compengithough, if you cam cap is closed, it doesn't ask you anymore to open it22:12
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compengiVenemo, what's that portrait mode?22:12
Venemowhat about it?22:13
compengiwhere do i find it22:13
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Venemocompengi, just go to the task launcher and tilt your phone22:41
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MohammadAGcamera-ui really needs to stop the camera when the device is locked22:48
MohammadAG(the rewrite)22:49
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BadabingHI! So when can we expext an maemo tablet;D23:02
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wmarone__never, really23:04
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Badabingtoo bad. stupid move from nokia that they do WP7 now.,,23:05
Badabingsince those SSU updates im rly happy again :D23:06
Badabingbut last one gave me some probs. on my n90023:06
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pupnikshare feedback in the proper place Badabing23:07
thopiekarhi.. need your opinion.. is it easy to repair the N900's usb? found a device on ebay from a seller that says that it is broken because it's usb is broken and he can't flash..23:07
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thopiekarand the device needs flashing because of a software problem..23:07
Badabingif u can solder it, then yes i guess?23:07
ShadowJKif the copper traces lifted it's pretty much unrepairable23:08
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ShadowJKif just the connector came out, it's hard but repairable I'd say :P23:09
jrayhawk'13:02 < Badabing> HI! So when can we expext an maemo tablet;D' the answer is 200523:09
thopiekarSurely I'm good at soldering but if it would be like ShadowJK said it will be very hard for sure..23:09
thopiekarhmm k23:09
thopiekarjust need to ask him how that happend..23:09
thopiekarthanks ShadowJK, Badabing23:09
Badabingif ur so good at soldering. do my RC heli. i cant fix it :D23:10
ShadowJKI'm not sure people can actually tell before opening up the device23:10
thopiekarBadabing: you should take a look at the controller which i made for a school project :D23:14
thopiekarWhen I finished that work I was on myself suprised how much wire I used :D23:15
thopiekar(got the pictures on facebook)23:15
Badabingyeah its not my 4-in-1 controller. but thx anyway L) its only 100euro :D23:16
Badabingit only spins now...23:16
Badabingreal fast:)23:17
ShadowJKBadabing, 4in1? esky?23:17
Badabinghoneybee FP223:17
ShadowJKI have one of those too :)23:18
Badabingbut u have to put the wire first then connect it. maybe its broken. but 3 engines cant be all broken..23:18
ShadowJKspinning is your 4in1, your P and G settings, or your tail motor (and/or) tailrotor system23:19
Badabingyeah it has no tail rotor now:D23:19
ShadowJKit doesn't spin at all?23:19
Badabingone of my 1st flight :) it crashed nope23:19
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Badabingbut i think i wanna get a 3d one. but those are killing machines (for ur wallet:D23:20
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Badabingi was hoping to maybe make some kind of remote so i can control it with my N90023:21
Badabinglike iphone also can23:21
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ShadowJK3D machines are a few factors more expensive to repair23:22
ShadowJKso I'd learn to fly and repair hbfpv2 first23:22
Badabingyeah only have time spent on a sim23:22
Badabingbut its only that tailrotor. and its rdy to fly..23:23
DocScrutinizerthopiekar: it's feasible, even when the copper pads for the contacts came off23:23
ShadowJKfor iphone/n900 control you'll need a onboard autopilot :)23:23
Badabinggot 4 battery a 20 euro a piece;D23:23
thopiekarfound at thread about that DocScrutinizer..23:23
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ShadowJKBadabing, so you need to solder the tailmotor wires and you'd be set?23:23
thopiekar DocScrutinizer23:23
Badabingyeah but i tried it like 50 times..23:23
Badabingmaybe it is that 4-123:24
ShadowJKdo you have two paperclips?23:24
Badabingy suppose23:24
ShadowJKand a sharp knife23:24
Badabingshort circuit it?23:24
DocScrutinizerthopiekar: yep23:24
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thopiekarhope that the price on ebay will remain small then I suggest to buy it..23:26
ShadowJKyou bend the paperclips straight, then use knife to scrape off insulation from both ends. Then, if you bend them appropriately, you can use an AA battery as power source to apply power onto the tailmotors + and -23:26
thopiekarjust 23hours left and one euro on it..23:26
Badabinghow hard is it btw to connect a fish eye lens on my n90023:26
ShadowJKYeah, if you didn't cut power when crashing, and tail rotor was stuck, it's more likely to destroy the 4in1 than the tailmotor23:27
Badabingbut those are like 30-35 euros.23:27
ShadowJKya :(23:27
Badabingthe grass is so long tail rotor always hits it.23:27
ShadowJKwhich is why if the motor turns when you apply power to it, the motor works23:28
Badabingbut sulfic acid should do the trick also right ;d23:28
Badabingor plain alcohol23:28
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ShadowJKand if you can also put some wires into the actual connector and test power there, and motor moves, your solderin is ok23:29
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Badabingoh now i see. external power;)23:29
Badabingill try right away :D23:29
ShadowJKdo you have a multimeter?23:29
ShadowJKPersonally I use a ,7 x 1.4m sheet of paper ontop of the grass as landing pad :)23:30
SpeedEvilOr a lawnmower23:30
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ShadowJKwell the gear and help gear struts easily gets caught on uneveness in the ground too23:31
* ShadowJK had a few incidents of dynamic rollover before getting "pad"23:31
Badabingi got a 30 inch FAN ;D23:31
Badabing+ 220 v motor. "but wont be flying :)23:32
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Badabinghow much RC's u have ? i once had this buy madness ;d23:35
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ShadowJKBasically, the 4in1 blows if you try apply power and the rotors are obstructed from turning... Or if there's a short circuit anywhere23:35
ShadowJKI only have hbfpv223:35
Badabingi also have lama v4 and mini heli + PLANE23:35
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Badabingso cool with this spy cam mounted on it23:35
ShadowJKI'm hoping to get some real-life ff, fff, nose-in and stuff done this season, and maybe progress to 6ch collective pitch23:36
Badabingtoo bad its not realstream23:36
ShadowJKOne of the first things I practiced in the sim was to get an instinctive "oh shit, it's impossible to recover before hitting ground/house/tree, cut power"-reflex :)23:38
Badabinguntil u crash and spend tens of hours repairing:D23:38
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ShadowJKWorst real-life crash so far was hitting a telephone pole. I had my n900 video filming, and when I reviewed the recording, I could hear motor shut down like .5 sec before the "clonk" sound of hitting telephone pole :)23:39
ShadowJKI had to change blades, flybar and main shaft after that one :)23:40
Badabingcan u fly it in a suburb? thought it was illegal23:40
ShadowJKthis is not a suburb23:41
Badabingdown town paris?23:41
ShadowJKI'm in the countryside finland, which means the nearest police officer is 40km away :P23:42
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Badabingit brings the boys in most men above those things. specially with nitro engines23:43
lcukShadowJK, what are you flying?23:43
Badabinghoneybee fp2 same as mine23:43
ShadowJKit's a beginner's trainer heli :)23:44
Badabingyeah. but man i couldnt let it to level ;D23:44
Badabingdid one circle lap then the wind crashed it.23:45
lcuki took one of my helicopters outside once23:45
lcukspent weeks rebuilding it23:45
X-FadeOh, interesting conversation :)23:45
Badabingyeah alot of offtopic chatter;D23:45
* X-Fade flies big electric 3D helis :)23:46
ShadowJKI started with hovering. Biggest mistake == flying in the wind. I had no idea when I was controlling it and when wind was controlling it. Then I got the large paper sheet landing pad. If landing pad moves, it's too windy :)23:46
Badabingelectric has so much lift they say. more as nitro23:46
X-FadeLogo 600SE 12S 4KW :)23:46
lcukX-Fade, \o having a whole squad of indoor helis in a big open building would be fun thing to do23:46
Badabingbut the hpfp2 should be doable with BF 3-423:47
ShadowJKLogo in Heli-X sim is just insane :)23:47
X-FadeFP is annoying, that will learn you the wrong reflexes.23:47
X-FadeThat will certainly crash you when you fly CP.23:47
Badabingtoo bad hobbyking doesnt ship to netherlands anymore23:47
ShadowJKX-Fade, oh?23:47
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Badabingfor 55 euro a complete ATF heli ;D23:48
X-FadeBadabing: Dude, I have 100+ orders there :)23:48
Badabingwell customs are taxing it now.23:48
X-FadeAnd I know for sure they ship to NL :)23:48
ShadowJKX-Fade, what reflexes go wrong?23:48
Badabingoh. :)23:48
Badabingfunny u guys love these things23:48
X-FadeShadowJK: You pull down throttle.23:48
Badabingin a maemo channel:D23:49
X-FadeShadowJK: That will rocket you into the ground with 12 degrees of negative pitch on a cp heli :)23:49
lcukBadabing, small hand held controllers :)23:49
Badabingtrue :)23:49
Badabingi love hacking my neighbours iphone 3 all the time:D23:49
ShadowJKX-Fade, heh, all winter I've been flying sim with 0 degree in centre position :)23:49
Badabinghe's so stupid to have BT on all the time23:50
lcukthe first thing many people did with n900 was fly it around like an pilot23:50
* lcuk remembers lots of people whooshing and zooming with it23:50
Badabingu guys ever got neopwn installed?23:50
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X-FadeShadowJK: But really FP is nothing like CP. It is only good for orientation.23:51
ShadowJKX-Fade, i thought many people flew with throttle/pitch curve where full down is -1 pitch 0 throttle or something like that, and then flip switch for 3D23:51
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ShadowJKmaybe I'll get a CP sooner than later then :)23:51
X-FadeShadowJK: Beginners do sometimes. But then get into trouble when the wind blows there heli upwards towards the sky :)23:52
X-FadeShadowJK: As then you can't get it back down without shutting down the engine and losing control.23:52
ShadowJKlol, I've had that with my fp :)23:52
GAN900RC . . . one day23:52
GAN900When I stop spending money on lenses.23:52
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lcukX-Fade, it depends if the pilot is used to souring craft too23:53
lcukbut for sure if you only have indoor experience the wind makes for odd experience23:53
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X-Fadelcuk: I train multiple people at my club and the things I see there ;)23:53
lcuk:) nice23:53
ShadowJKBut I had practiced FP-in-wind in the sim before even buying heli, and pulsing throttle to keep control worked rather well in real life too :)23:53
Badabingwhat is that23:53
lcukshall have to visit when I next come to NL23:53
X-Fadelcuk: Sure, do come over.23:54
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X-FadeBtw, we have our flyingfield in Phoenix Simulator now.23:54
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X-FadeVery nice.23:54
lcukX-Fade, do you fly indoors or mix?23:54
ShadowJKI suspect his helis are too big for indoor :)23:54
X-Fadelcuk: I like more power, so I just fly all year round.23:54
Badabingi also love those jets . so cool miniature jet engine23:54
X-FadeI do have a T-Rex 250 for indoor.23:55
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ShadowJKindoor in the context of 250 means baseball stadium, right?23:55
ShadowJKor gymnasium23:55
Badabingyeah those are big23:55
X-FadeA gym. 250 is 330gram.23:56
Badabingwhat should i buy from hobbyking?23:56
lcukX-Fade, good stuff, attach n900 to it23:56
Badabingany suggestions?23:56
X-FadeBadabing: Batteries :)23:56
X-Fadelcuk: Not that one, way to heavy.23:56
Badabingi love the building process btw23:56
ShadowJKYeah, 250 is same size as hbfpv2 then :) (but the t-rex has magnitudes more power and manouverability, of course)23:57
Badabingany of u have a nitro one?23:58
ShadowJKlcuk, I wouldn't put more than 50grams on my honeybee (300-ish gram heli)23:58
X-FadeNitro is so low power :)23:58
GAN900Badabing, bought a Canon 7d last year.23:58
Badabingbut the sound + smell :)23:58
lcukX-Fade, you ever flown a real one?23:58
X-Fadelcuk: Fullsize heli?23:58
Badabinghk450 28 dollar ATF :D23:58
* lcuk aims to find a way to do so23:58
lcukyes X-Fade23:58
X-Fadelcuk: No.23:59
X-Fadelcuk: But the way I fly 3d, it will kill you :)23:59
merlin1991wrong window :D23:59
X-Fadelcuk: The amount of G I can pull on my heli is insane.23:59
ShadowJKrc helis have so much power they can escape from anything and ignore aerodynamics :D23:59
Badabingyeah superman g's :S23:59
lcukX-Fade, it is easy to do in models23:59

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