IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-04-03

RST38hShadowJK: Well, no wonder00:00
RST38hEven heard on a TV standing in 3m from the phone00:00
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: movie recording? like camera taking video?00:03
BCMMi hadn't realised how many people recognised that noise until i noticed they have a fake on in GTA IV00:04
BCMM(on car radios right before the player character's phone rings)00:04
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emi dont know what you mean by zombies are immortal DocScrutinizer00:06
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DocScrutinizerem: you asked "what about state of maemo", several answers were: "dead", my answer... see above00:07
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DocScrutinizerif you prefer the more optimistic phrasing: it can't get worse, so the future is bright00:09
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DocScrutinizeronly thing I'm afraid of is zombie fighter Nokia with his sharp weapons meego/harmattan and qt-mobility00:12
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FIQ|n900Where is the bugtracker(s) for Maemo 5?00:23
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FIQ|n900i.e. the operating system, not software from Extras or something like that00:23
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, asterisk bugs is at the asterisk bug tracking system is at . If you have a bug you may submit it there. READ BEFORE you submit a bug!   Also see
FIQ|n900ah, ty00:24
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MohammadAGDBus hijacked, stock player widget opens my mediaplayer now :)00:26
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DocScrutinizerNB infobot got no chan specific factoids enabled for #maemo00:32
infobotI'm on 110 channels: #debian/1111, #meego/446, #maemo/391, #gsoc/370, #kde/362, #asterisk/204, #wowace/172, #wowuidev/167, #oe/166, #wowhead/159, #openmoko/118, #htc-linux/114, #webos-internals/109, #openmoko-cdevel/82, #sc2mapster/69, #utah/62, #curseforge/61, #bzflag/58, #uclibc/57, #edev/54, #tomcat/52, #asterisk-dev/45, #slug/42, #gllug/34, #elinux/34, #norganna/33, #brlcad/29, #/28, #uphpu/27, #utos/25, ##kierra/24, #storm/23, #asterisk-bugs/22, ...00:33
infoboti've cached 5215 users, 3855 unique users, distributed over 110 channels.00:33
MohammadAGI wonder how I could make a window take focus and get on top00:34
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DocScrutinizerumm, call setfocus() or sth like that?00:35
DocScrutinizerbut actually that's a STRONGLY deprecated practice for almost all cases00:36
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FIQ|n900let's use it everytime someone writes something in a channel in xchat00:37
MohammadAGnot this case, suppose you have a media player window open, you click the widget, it should show now playing right?00:37
DocScrutinizeran app may switch itself to foreground on user interaction or some rare high importance event. No app may ever try to stay in foreground00:37
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MohammadAGI don't want to create another window (obviously), so there has to be a way to show it on top00:37
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: right, that's the case "on user interaction"00:38
MohammadAGyeah, sorry, IRC's lagging00:39
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: check how arbitrary other apps (or is it HDM?) do it, as virtually every app gets focus and foreground (ontop) when starting it while it's running00:39
MohammadAGthat's the window manager (h-d in this case)00:39
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MohammadAGI wonder if it's activateWindow()00:40
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MohammadAGheh, activateWindow it is00:41
MohammadAGI'd have expected setFocus() to do it, but meh...00:41
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* MohammadAG grumbles00:51
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# dbus-send --print-reply /com/nokia/mediaplayer string:"test"00:51
MohammadAGError org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: No such method 'mime_open' in interface '' at object path '/com/nokia/mediaplayer' (signature 's')00:51
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MohammadAGoh yay, figured it out00:56
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MohammadAGI wonder how I could differentiate music files from video ones01:00
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DocScrutinizerumm, there's a unix cmd called file01:00
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* SpeedEvil ponders making a calculus joke, and then backs away from the nerdiness.01:00
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, in Qt/C++/C/Glib/whatever01:01
kerioSpeedEvil: what joke?01:01
kerioi'm a nerd!01:01
kerioa math one!01:01
kerioi like math jokes01:01
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: there's probably no other/better/equivalent way to what file does01:01
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DocScrutinizerso this is a perfect example to follow basic unix design principles and use existing general simple functions to build more specific functions out of them - in expression use system()01:03
DocScrutinizeror you find a lib that's doing what file cmd does01:03
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm not launching file from my app01:04
SpeedEvilI vaguely recall libmagic01:05
MohammadAGI just need to know if the file is a video or an audio file to show the correct window01:05
MohammadAG#define MAFW_METADATA_KEY_MIME: Describes the type and format of the item. Its value is a string of <type> '/' <subtype> defined in RFC2045 section 5.1. The value should be interpreted according to that standard.01:06
MohammadAGisn't that music/subtype or video/subtype?01:06
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DocScrutinizerwhatever it is, it's just a #define01:38
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DocScrutinizermaybe mafw-* has some method to determine the mimetype of a file and pass back a result according to that define.01:39
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DocScrutinizermaybe hildon has a general mimetype management (which then probably works similar to 'file' in some aspects)01:40
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MohammadAGwell, yeah, that, but it's not working :P01:40
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil's hint about libmagic is a realy good one01:40
MohammadAGand the stock player isn't doing it, it just jumps to playback according to DBus01:41
DocScrutinizersure, stock MP is relying on tracker data. And tracker also has some way to determine type of file. Dunno how it works exactly01:42
MohammadAGno, tracker also uses DBus01:43
DocScrutinizerfor some strange reason the terms "conduit" and "plugin" have a fight in my mind01:43
MohammadAGand it's not poking at that01:43
MohammadAGit's using some C/GLib API01:43
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: tracker can't read and index files via DBus01:43
MohammadAGgnome_vfs_get_mime_type_from_uri <-ha01:43
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, all calls to tracker are done via DBus01:44
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DocScrutinizeryeah sure01:44
MohammadAGsince both mafw and the mediaplayer are using tracker, it causes slowness01:44
MohammadAGthat's why the stock UI sucks01:44
DocScrutinizerthat's unrelated to tracker's indexing and file content scanning/classifying action though01:44
MohammadAGwell, tracker indexes on its own01:45
MohammadAGthen provides the data over DBus01:45
MohammadAGdbus-monitor --session01:45
DocScrutinizerwe all know that01:45
MohammadAGthen start the stock player, it gives me headaches01:46
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RST38hIt behaves...weirdly. So does Modest though01:47
RST38hCheck out what happens with mail account update times in the main view, for example =)01:48
* DocScrutinizer ponders stopping trackerd (from autoindexing a certain directory), then copy over some e.g. mp3, and click on that file unknown to tracker in HFM01:48
RST38hIn the stock media player, see what happens with the list of songs to be played01:48
RST38hSimilar crap01:48
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it'd work fine01:50
DocScrutinizerI bet HFM somehow has to determine the type of file. I'd not be surprised it asks tracker about type of file, and tracker in turn notices it's a file not yet indexed and starts to find out about the file's properties like tracker usually does01:51
keriotracker is as tracker does01:52
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DocScrutinizerthis means this very moment tracker will do sth similar to `file <file>`01:52
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DocScrutinizereither you use same procedure (asking tracker via DBus), or you consider doing the filetype inspection on your own, using `file` or libmagic or whatever you find appropriate01:53
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DocScrutinizeror you don't care and simply try to open the file for video playback (or audio or whatever the user asked for) and see if it works or fails01:55
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DocScrutinizerNB some audio formats (e.g .au) are hard or impossible to determine by anything other than listening to them :-)01:56
DocScrutinizerwell, probably those formats are hard to playback in MP either, as you'd need to specify sampling rate and other parameters01:57
* ShadowJK implemented .au once01:58
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DocScrutinizer(I'm not absolutely sure about .au. IIRC it's the headerless raw audio dump format used by Sun?)01:59
ShadowJK"Originally it was headerless, being simply 8-bit µ-law-encoded data at an 8000 Hz sample rate" ... "Newer files have a header that consists of six unsigned 32-bit words, an optional information chunk and then the data (in big endian format)."02:00
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, umm, I already mentioned what it uses02:00
MohammadAGconst char*         gnome_vfs_get_mime_type_from_uri    (GnomeVFSURI *uri);02:01
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sounds fine, no?02:01
MohammadAGif it didn't segfault, yeah02:03
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zakkkkmIs meego 1.2RC n900 worth trying?02:03
zakkkkmdoes it have call/text/sms/data support?02:04
zakkkkmthey would know about the n900 port?02:04
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MohammadAGthey're the ones working on it, not us02:05
MohammadAGbut if you're not a dev, you don't need to install it02:05
MohammadAGMaemo's quite fine02:05
zakkkkmit is, i just want to experiment for fun02:05
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: maybe interesting: find /usr/ -name '*mim*'02:05
zakkkkmkind of bored weekend :)02:06
zakkkkmi bought the n900 cause of maemo. I wont leave maemo.02:06
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, not much help, it's segfaulting and gdb's showing it segfaults @ strchr02:07
MohammadAGwhatever that function is02:07
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RST38hTokyo Electric Power Company is going to get a massive hollow floating platform from Shizuoka City. TEPCO plans to use it to store radioactive water at its crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.02:07
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zakkkkmis u-boot from extras-devel safe to run?02:10
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you might want to look at /usr/share/mime/packages/mediaplayer-service-mime.xml and see who's using it and how you can exploit that02:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I don't want nasty hacks when there's a perfectly good function for it, that segfaults02:11
MohammadAGgnome_vfs_get_mime_type_from_uri (uri); <-- is where it's segfautling02:12
zakkkkmyour reverse engineering?02:12
DocScrutinizersorry, your wording made me laugh02:12
MohammadAGit was intended, I'm sure :P02:12
MohammadAGzakkkkm, no, just replacing the stock player02:13
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: "...see who's using it and how you can exploit that" wasn't meant to suggest "nasty hacks". Just stating that file probably is part of the existing perfectly working solution02:13
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I think that's read by gnome vfs02:14
MohammadAGthat's how gnome based desktops work, not sure how KDE does it02:14
DocScrutinizerso yes, then probably that lib is the one you want to use02:14
mtnbkrMohammadAG, DocScrutinizer: looks like the microsd reader is shot on my N900.   Took the 8GB microsd to someone who had a reader for it and everything was fine. but phone will not read it. shows up as "corrupted memory card (or whatever)   So I bought a 16GB microsd and the phone does not even see it at all.  :(02:16
DocScrutinizerthough /usr/lib/ and even more /usr/lib/microb-engine/ make me frown and scratch my head02:16
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DocScrutinizermtnbkr: oh shit02:16
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mtnbkryeah :(02:17
MohammadAGbtw, make sure the card doesn't have a Symbian lock on it02:17
MohammadAGthat makes the driver returns error code -10 (or -110, can't remember)02:17
DocScrutinizeroh yes. that one nasty crap02:17
mtnbkrwell, the 8GB had been working in my N900 since Dec 12th '1002:17
mtnbkrthey are both "SanDisk" cards one 8GB on 16GB02:18
infobotmtnbkr meant: they are both "SanDisk" cards onee 8GB on 16GB02:18
mtnbkrhaha not actually infobot :)02:18
GeneralAntillesAnybody good IDing helicopters?
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: some rare cards don't work with particular readers. Also it might be possible you bitkilled the SDcard driver of your system (->reflash). And finally it might be bad luck and you got two shaky cards02:20
mtnbkrGeneralAntilles: Eurocopter BK 117?02:20
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MohammadAGGnomeVFSURI* uri = gnome_vfs_uri_new (text_uri);02:21
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: actually cards that are broken or shaky ootb are way more common than you'd guess02:21
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MohammadAGuri is NULL for some reason :/02:21
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: I am guessing the former since the 8GB (original) was fully readble by some due with a windws machine who told me I might have to reboot my phone for it to recognize the card... I told him my phone runs Linux, I don't need to reboot it for such trivial things. lol02:21
mtnbkrso describe "bitkilled" and then describe "how to fix"  lol02:22
DocScrutinizerat OM (freerunner) we seen several problems with SD cards that needed reduced clock frequency to work reliably02:22
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mtnbkrGeneralAntilles: oh wait, that is an EC 35
DocScrutinizerbitkilled=something caused incorrect bits/bytes/data inside the SD-driver.ko -- fix: ~flashing02:23
mtnbkrperhaps I can just get a good and overwrite?02:24
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mtnbkrprefer not to reflash (again)02:25
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DocScrutinizerfirst you might just re-install the driver modules, and flash a new kernel02:25
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: got a URL?02:25
MohammadAGapt-get --reinstall install kernel kernel-modules kernel-flasher02:25
DocScrutinizerflasher-3.5 --flash=kernel02:25
DocScrutinizersth along that lines02:25
DocScrutinizeryeah, what MohammadAG says02:26
mtnbkrok... lemme try...02:26
mtnbkrthanks guys02:26
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mtnbkrGeneralAntilles: and I meant to say EC 135, not EC 3502:26
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GeneralAntillesmtnbkr: I spent 30 minutes trying to find actual useful about information on their about page the other day.02:27
GeneralAntillesmtnbkr: clearly I fail. *g*02:27
mtnbkrI cheated02:27
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: also make sure your SDcard holder's contacts are clean, and similar 'trivial' stuff02:27
zakkkkmanyone try KDE over easy-debian on the n900?02:28
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: yeah... checked that... they are good...02:28
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mtnbkrGeneralAntilles: i cheated02:28
GeneralAntillesmtnbkr: cheating's for winners. ;)02:28
lawl0rWhy do you guys use maemo? Android is superior. It runs Java.02:29
zakkkkmjava isnt superior?02:29
zakkkkmand maemo runs java too02:29
GeneralAntilleslawl0r: don't troll, Androidiot.02:29
DocScrutinizerlawl0r: you're serious??02:29
zakkkkmGeneralAntilles: Still around? :)02:29
lawl0rbut.... trolling is fun :)02:29
GeneralAntilleszakkkkm: vaguely.02:29
mtnbkrsaw your flikr image, googled bayflight helicopter model and clicked the 1st and 3rd links... best part is the FIRST link was a photo of a MODEL :)02:29
zakkkkmHas anybody left maemo? :P02:29
zakkkkmyou remember me?02:29
GeneralAntilleslawl0r: right now, in here, it's mostly just depressing. ;)02:30
mtnbkrAndroidiot   hahahah02:30
mtnbkrlawl0r:  DRM sux02:30
GeneralAntilleszakkkkm: yeah, how was Japan? ;)02:30
GeneralAntillesYes, a few people have left Japan02:30
zakkkkmyou dont remember me :)02:30
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lawl0rAndroid has a decent appstore.02:30
GeneralAntillesWeren't you about to board a flight to Japan last time you were in here?02:30
zakkkkmprobably more than a few02:30
MohammadAGand a non-decent shell02:30
lawl0ralso i don't accidently fuck shit, because i don't have root.02:30
zakkkkm3 years ago, was it?02:30
GeneralAntillesHrm, wonder which z-nick I'm confusing you with.02:31
Vanadislawl0r, you can shut down your computer now.02:31
lawl0randroid has no viruses, because google removes them for me.02:31
zakkkkmbricked my nokia 770 back in like '08 , then got a 80002:31
MohammadAGlawl0r, are you trolling maemo or android?02:31
Vanadislawl0r, google also removes your pr0n.02:31
mtnbkrlawl0r: google is not your friend02:31
lawl0rMohammadAG, doesn't matter, as long as it's trolling02:32
zakkkkmlawl0r: i am an android developer, google doesnt do shit to stop "viruses" lol.02:32
mtnbkrlawl0r: and google tracks every thing you do EVERYTHING02:32
GeneralAntilless/a few people have left Japan/Maemo/02:32
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lawl0rOMG, trolling you guys is easier than i tought02:32
DocScrutinizerlawl0r: please stop that. It's too lame for trolling, and too stupid for a serious discussion02:32
GeneralAntillesSorry, I'm watching the baseball game and it's dividing my intelligence into two idiots.02:32
lawl0respecially because i already said i'm trolling02:32
zakkkkmis easy debian worth trying on n900?02:32
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GeneralAntilleszakkkkm: works fine.02:33
* mtnbkr wonders why people actually try to be douches02:33
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zakkkkmi wanna try kde4 :)02:33
lawl0rok, serious mode now: maemo is cool, nokia is stoopid.02:33
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lawl0rmaemo runs only on one nokia phone, ergo -> maemo is stupid.02:34
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mtnbkrwill someone just kick the douche?02:34
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mtnbkrthank you ;)02:34
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DocScrutinizerlawl0r: query me if you think you found a way to contribute non-trolling statements02:35
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MohammadAGk, I think mixing gnome code doesn't work well02:38
* mtnbkr guesses he DIDN'T "find a way"02:38
DocScrutinizer[Notice] -lawl0r- it's okay, at the moment i'm in troll mode, i'll notice you if that should change02:39
DocScrutinizerI'm fine with that for now02:39
MohammadAGcause I'm not doing anything wrong
DocScrutinizerNIN101: what's that?02:40
NIN101Well, a serious contribution to a serious discussion, nothing more.02:41
DocScrutinizerplease don't post context-free uncommented URLs that don't even have a hint in their text about the topic the page is about02:42
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: at least it was DRM-free too though02:44
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: what was DRM free?02:44
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mtnbkrapt-get --reinstall install kernel kernel-modules kernel-flasher  then reboot, insert 8GB card that works find on some dumb windows machine, close back cover "Memory card corrupted"  :(02:45
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: re: DRM-free his post02:45
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mtnbkrso, I think officially my N900 microsd reader is shot  :(02:46
ShadowJKDo you still have the magnet?02:46
DocScrutinizerI had no lok at that post, as I generally never click on URLs just to find out *why* they got posted by some fool02:46
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: me too02:46
mtnbkrsadly :)02:46
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I guess you missed a point: if the magnet is missing, the system won't touch the SD card at all02:47
mtnbkrso, any other options or am I out of luck?  all my RUSH, Steve Vai and Jo Satriani was on that micrsd card :(02:48
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: I'd try with a 3rd and fourth card, just to make sure it's not bad luck02:48
mtnbkryeah, but each 16GB microsd is ~ $5002:48
DocScrutinizerpreferably another brand02:48
* ShadowJK recommends sandisk02:49
DocScrutinizerso try a 1GB or even 512MB02:49
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nox-mtnbkr, or try reading the card on a pc reader?02:49
mtnbkrI am not actually made of money (even though I bought the N900 in Nov 2010 at FULL REATAIL   lol02:49
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: both were sandisk02:49
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: yeah, good idea02:49
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: same here :-)02:49
mtnbkrI COULD. NOT. WAIT.    lol02:50
ShadowJKI bought it Nov 2009 retail :-)02:50
DocScrutinizerI paid it like 2009-0802:50
DocScrutinizershipped some 8 weeks later02:50
mtnbkrBTW, I had to use my old iPhone 3G while this was being repaired... I HATE the iPhone!   I only keep it around since I have a cool app that I can plug my electric guitar into and add in effects etc...02:50
ShadowJKbtw, "Corrupted memory card" could mean anything from a partition table the N900 doesn't like, to filesystem corruption, to actual memory card brokenness02:51
DocScrutinizerit might even be formated (/[not] partitioned) as a superfloppy02:52
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mtnbkrShadowJK: right but the card IS readable on some dude's windows machine02:52
DocScrutinizerwindoze will happily use those02:52
DocScrutinizertry listing the partition(s) with sfdisk02:53
ShadowJKmtnbkr, do you speak linux02:53
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: p[lus earlier today I dd'ed it  and then it was STILL readable so it tells me my sd reader/writer is non-functional since all those 0's never made it to the microsd card02:53
mtnbkrShadowJK: almost exclusively02:53
mtnbkrI also speak mountain biking, beer, OS/2 and RPN  :)02:53
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: good point, yeah. dd should have erased it02:54
ShadowJKRight.. I'd fire up a rootshell on N900, try mount it manually (check with 'mount' first to check what MyDocs device name is called, because they can jump around and get renamed a bit)02:54
DocScrutinizerif you dd to phy device, not mtd*102:54
DocScrutinizererr mmc*102:54
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ShadowJKalso dmesg02:55
zakkkkmShadowJK: wow, everyone is still in maemo scene eh02:55
DocScrutinizerthen there's been that tool to read out properties of storage devices... can't recall the name02:55
ShadowJKIn general, after you insert microsd and close the battery cover, dmesg will contain some info and partition list, or errors, or nothing at all. I'd start from there02:57
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ShadowJKzakkkkm, what do you mean?02:57
zakkkkmShadowJK: i remember you when i was here about 3 years ago.02:58
ShadowJKOh :-)02:58
zakkkkmand alot of the same people are still here.02:58
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ShadowJKI didn't know I had been here 3 years. And I'm sorry I don't remember you :-(02:58
zakkkkmsold my 800 in early 09 i believe, and recently got n900 so im back.02:58
ShadowJKwelcome back :D02:58
zakkkkmdont expect you too, dont believe we ever talked.02:58
* ShadowJK bought N810, N800, N900, in that order02:59
ShadowJKstill use them all02:59
zakkkkmi had 770 , got wsod.. then had 800 , and now n90002:59
* DocScrutinizer is missing 80002:59
ShadowJKI don't have 770 :/02:59
* DocScrutinizer neither02:59
zakkkkm*loved maemo 3*02:59
zakkkkmplankton theme!03:00
ShadowJK770 WSOD, N800 lose vertical hold, dunno what N810 does :P03:00
ShadowJKN900 ejects usb port03:00
mtnbkrShadowJK: usually just a lot of I/O errors. (in dmesg that is) I/O error, dev mmcblk1, sector x (x increments)  and mmcblk1: error -84 transferring data, sector x (x increments), nr y (y decrements) card status 0x90003:00
luke-jrGAN900: OS X isn't terrible on Windows?03:00
zakkkkmon windows? how do you run OSX on windows?03:01
mtnbkrluke-jr: whuuuu?03:01
ShadowJKhehe, I use the klingon theme on N80003:01
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: that's definitely borked card or reader03:01
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: I know right. :)03:01
ShadowJKmtnbkr, sounds bad, unless sector x*512 is outside the card's size03:02
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: I suggest you do a proper backup, then reflash03:02
GeneralAntillesluke-jr: parse error.03:02
zakkkkmthere doesnt seem to be good themes on maemo 503:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: GOOD point03:02
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: the flash is fine... phone is working, retore is mostly fine just the microsd is NFG03:03
ShadowJKYeah, I regulary freak out seeing errors on N810 internal mmc, but that's because I still have the faulty Nokia partition table which defines a partition bigger than the internal mmc size03:03
DocScrutinizerNokia by default has a fubar'd partition table on eMMC??03:04
ShadowJKOn N810, yes :)03:04
ShadowJKThe partition is bigger than the emmc03:04
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DocScrutinizernow that might explain something03:04
ShadowJKIt's a well-known bug03:04
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DocScrutinizerdn't you think this could cause reboots03:05
ShadowJKOf course03:05
DocScrutinizerwhen swap fails03:05
ShadowJKIn 90% of cases, swap is created early enough that it doesn't spill over03:05
ShadowJKI only saw errors/warnings when I loaded maps for my trip to germany 2009 :-)03:06
DocScrutinizerisn't there a chance to wrap around to start of eMMC?03:07
ShadowJK(.de maps were huge)03:07
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ShadowJKNo it doesn't wrap around03:07
ShadowJKIf it did wrap around, you'd find out soon enough when the partition table is blown away03:07
DocScrutinizermtnbkr: mind to do a dd if=sometext.txt of=/dev/mmcblk1(<<check that! don't use *p1) bs=1024 count=1 ?03:09
DocScrutinizerthen sync, mount-cycle (backcover), read back and see what it looks like03:09
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yeah03:10
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: o/03:11
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: \o03:12
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: ban cleaning day?03:12
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: as long as it doesn't require any work on my part? :P03:12
DocScrutinizerhehe, ok then another time03:13
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Sazpaimonso i downloaded QtIrreco03:15
Sazpaimonmy tv isn't listed03:15
Sazpaimonnot even the manufaturer03:15
Arkenoiand UI is disaster anyways :-(03:17
zakkkkmHey, what is required for irreco to work?03:17
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zakkkkmdoes the n900 have builtin IR?03:17
Robot101yes, hilariously03:17
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nox-only send tho03:18
Robot101yep just to the right of the camera button03:18
zakkkkmso i can fully just use my n900 as a remote control?03:18
nox-so you cant use it to `learn' an unknown remote03:18
Sazpaimoni take that back03:18
Sazpaimonapparently "NOC" isn't the brand of my tv, but actually AOC03:18
Sazpaimon you can clearly see my confusion03:19
Sazpaimonthat said, there was only 1 model listed, and it doesnt seem towork03:19
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luke-jrzakkkkm: no idea, ask GAN90003:21
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Sazpaimonthere we go03:22
Sazpaimonnow it works03:22
Sazpaimongod this ui is terrible03:22
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SpeedEvilIt's opensource! You have the power to bitch about the UI, without submitting patches!03:26
Sazpaimonand I'm using that power03:27
Sazpaimonif i cared at all about qt I'd do something about it03:27
* ShadowJK decided to give up on qtirreco03:28
DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: I used the minus-Qt version, it isn't exactly great but works03:31
Sazpaimonyeah just downloaded that03:31
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DocScrutinizeryou can even get my version of what I decided to be a somewhat usable remote UI - lemme check what it's called03:33
DocScrutinizerjr32LG3000_1 and _203:34
DocScrutinizerupper right button is the nifty one03:34
nox-hm not a single google hit for jr32LG3000_1 ...03:36
nox-or _203:36
Sazpaimonneither irreco seem to have a - button03:36
Sazpaimonhow can i acess subchannels this way03:36
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DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: you need to define your own buttons if the one you need is missing in the remote definition you loaded03:39
Sazpaimoni found it03:39
Sazpaimonit was called PLUSMINUS03:39
Sazpaimonfor some reason03:39
* pupnik puts out tuna for the cat03:39
DocScrutinizernox-: I got a weird error "can't parse reply" on trying to open the remotes download submenu03:40
nox-sounds like some notwork/protocol problem?  but what do i know... :)03:41
* nox- only tried to make a remote for the dreambox once, and found it too difficult getting the timing/config right (that i read using an mceusb device with irrecord...)03:42
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nox-its not a `standard' protocol so it has to be a raw config...03:43
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nox-(and the `irman' config in the lirc archive was of course useless for sending :)03:46
DocScrutinizer51nox-: it's just the TV submenu that says 'can not parse reply'03:54
DocScrutinizer51specifically the LG and other subsubmenues there03:55
DocScrutinizer51in irreco "download remote"03:55
nox-ah yeah i guess it talks to a server that has configs03:56
DocScrutinizer51my LG remote been probably there under TV03:57
Sazpaimoni now realize how futile this is03:58
Sazpaimonbecause the N900's ir reciever isnt really that good03:58
Sazpaimonit needs to face the tv directly for it to work, which means holding it in a non remote position03:58
nox-you mean ir led?  it doesnt have a receiver...03:58
nox-ah yeah03:58
Sazpaimonits a cool little novelty and i may use it to turn off the tv if i ever cant find the remote03:59
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ShadowJKSome people have speculated that you can get more apparent power by adjusting the modulation slightly04:03
ShadowJKNot sure if any software expose that ability though.04:03
nox-the freqency?  yeah that can happen04:03
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nox-i have not tried that on the n900 yet but in principle its a parameter in the lirc config file04:04
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DocScrutinizer51nox-: I upped it to test/LG04:05
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nox-found it04:08
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Sazpaimon"i will die because i have alot of problems with my mobile"04:09
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Sazpaimondibs on his phone04:09
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ShadowJKI'd envision an UI with common IR frequencies and +- buttons to fine tune04:11
pupnik_Sazpaimon: impressive04:11
pupnik_ahh not native english speaker04:11
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nox-DocScrutinizer51, nice big buttons :)04:12
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: nox- I tuned frequency but found it actually doesn't do much for my LG04:12
DocScrutinizer51nox-: the (99) button is best part of it04:13
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nox-what does that do?04:13
DocScrutinizer51I find it quite convenient04:13
DocScrutinizer51switch page04:14
DocScrutinizer51if you got both _1 and _204:14
nox-aah :)04:14
nox-do you also have one to switch back?04:15
nox-ah yeah04:15
nox-well that looks good, now i'd only have to get my dm7k config working :)04:16
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DocScrutinizer51I think it *looks* rather yuck, with that pink backround and no matching button styles and all04:23
nox-yeah but two pages make sense, and easy switching between them too04:23
DocScrutinizer51it's been just a POC basically04:24
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zanberdolooking for a cli unzip util04:29
DocScrutinizer51A nice feature was to change IP of the controller from hostname localhost to t900 (second device). the same config ran on t900 and so first device called 2nd to emit IR04:29
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zanberdois there an unzip package for n900?04:43
SpeedEvilzanberdo: it is called...04:44
zanberdosearching apt w/ all repo enabled did show up04:45
SpeedEvilGet:1 fremantle/free unzip 1:6.0-maemo5 [166kB]04:45
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DocScrutinizer51even: unzip-fm - A simple file-manager add-on to unzip files by clicking on them04:52
SpeedEvilOn a related topic - the 'radio' package is a FM radio that is _much_ faster than the fmradio one.04:54
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ShadowJKthe fmradio thing just pissed me off04:54
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ShadowJKwhoever designed it achieved their presumed goal of making radio as fucking hard as it possibly can be04:55
SpeedEvilIt's like a proof-of-concept alpha version.04:55
ShadowJKI only /ONCE/ managed to tune it to a station04:55
ShadowJKfucking sliding spinning random-o-matic frequency dial04:55
zakkkkm_anyone use rdesktop from the tablet?04:57
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DocScrutinizer51I tune it with left/right cursur keys04:57
DocScrutinizer51sucks but at least works04:58
RST38hShadowJK: javispedro will be offended =)04:58
RST38hShadowJK: Or are you talking about that OTHER fm radio package?04:58
ShadowJKThe one that looks like an analog frequency display, and when you release finger pressure from display, it moves from 99.9 to 99.1 Mhz04:59
ShadowJKDunno who's software that is.04:59
DocScrutinizer51written by Martin _rimme05:00
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zanberdohmm  must have something miss configured. thanks05:01
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TiagoTiagowhere can i find a tutorial for making an imageset (for wallpaper) avaiable on the repos?05:04
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zakkkkm_ how do you get that white battery icon?05:10
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RST38hwith photoshop?05:13
zakkkkm_make own icon pack?05:13
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: radio is WAY better than fm-radio05:17
DocScrutinizer51automatic preset search YEAH!05:18
DocScrutinizer51javispedro should add direct key-in of freq via kbd05:18
TiagoTiagoThat's the one that works even without the headphone plugged, right?05:18
DocScrutinizer51that would make it almost perfect05:19
nox-yeah i just tested it too05:19
nox-called c fm radio in the app manager iirc05:19
pupnikthey could just stick with maemo5 and have a great OS05:20
DocScrutinizer51plus three ts buttons: up, down, presets05:20
pupnikhave any of you looked at palm's OS?05:20
nox-pupnik, yeah stupid politics05:20
TiagoTiagowhy do they insist on the external antenna requirement? Is it to obey some FCC rulling or somthing?05:20
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DocScrutinizer51it obviously needs an antenna, but there's no sense in *forcing* it05:22
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DocScrutinizer51I think I should get my hands dirty and work a bit on javispedro's radio05:23
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ShadowJKThere are no FCC requirements for any receiver, afaik05:25
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: It's vanishingly unliekely to work for most people.05:25
SpeedEvilShadowJK: phonetapping05:25
ShadowJKI forgot :-)05:26
TiagoTiagoThe times i tried it hasn't been hard to get a good signal, seems i was just lucky05:27
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pupnikheppy gehman akzent day!05:40
pupnikiff yu deed nat know zis, plees sprred it arrount!05:40
TiagoTiagoTalk like a nazi day? <.<05:41
pupnikif you wish zen you need to say 'achtung' a lot alsso05:42
pupnikand 'ausweis!'05:42
ShadowJKai dånt nåw vatt ju ah tahkin abaat05:43
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nox-you know a sentence with `gaensefleisch'? :)05:46
nox-`gaensefleisch ma n gofferoom oofmache'...05:46
nox-(gdr border control back then... :)05:47
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* ShadowJK saw DDR border control when he was 6 yo or so05:52
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ShadowJKI thought it was strange that aunt's husband was so fascinated with fences as he was with animals05:53
ShadowJK(the telezoom objective came out whenever he went near the border, and whenever he was near moose in .fi)05:54
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nox-lens :)05:55
nox-not objective05:55
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TiagoTiagoCan someone point me to a tutorial for packaging and posting an wallpaper imageset on the repos please?06:10
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pupnikAmazing guitar demo recorded by a friend from Napster back in 2002 - Bach Toccata and Fugue -
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climbzhalo maemo09:33
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keithzghalo climbz09:41
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tr4skhi :)10:16
tr4skI have a little question for you people.10:17
tr4skI was using kernel-power. and recently I decided to try nitdroid10:18
tr4skbut now, the kernel power does'nt seem to boot10:18
tr4skI'm stuck with 2.6.28-omap110:19
tr4skor nitdroid10:19
tr4skI did'nt find a solution to boot the custom kernel.10:20
robbiethe1stReinstall kernel-power?10:21
robbiethe1st"sudo apt-get install --reinstall kernel-power kernel-power-flasher"?10:21
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tr4skI already try this.10:22
tr4skhi pupnik10:22
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tr4skrobbiethe1st: it's look like the multiboot app does'nt have the custom kernel10:23
robbiethe1stIIRC, there's a kernel-power-multiboot package or something10:24
robbiethe1stit's a special package10:24
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tr4skrobbiethe1st: thx I found it :)10:29
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auenfx4weird, still network error with msn pecan10:31
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pupniki have to say i'm a pretty good ui guy12:19
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MohammadAGanyone know of a good lyrics API?12:25
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jacekowskiMohammadAG: same one clementine uses12:33
jacekowskiMohammadAG: lyrics.wikia.com12:34
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MohammadAGlooks like Qt Creator for some reason12:34
jacekowskiMohammadAG:, elyrics.net12:35
MohammadAGdo they all have APIs?12:35
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MohammadAGhe API only returns a small portion of the lyrics (about 1/7th of them) <- meh12:38
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jacekowskiwell, clementine can pull everything12:43
MohammadAGfrom the first site?12:43
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jacekowskijust download clementine source code12:44
jacekowskiit's in qt as well12:44
jacekowskiso you can just use method pionieered by c.opy & p.aste12:45
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njainhey guys13:00
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SpeedEvilThere may be girls here too.13:01
MohammadAGQTime has a nice timing feature13:01
MohammadAGhey njain13:01
njaini want to write a script that enables the auto-call-receive in some time13:01
SpeedEvilAlso horible creatures from the black lagoon.13:01
njainif headphones are plugged in13:01
MohammadAGMediaPlayer startup took 544 ms13:01
MohammadAGyay, UI starts in half a sec13:01
njainSpeedEvil: i meant for all...13:01
njainthat means if headphones are in, the user has an option to set in time13:02
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njainafter which the incoming call is automatically received13:02
njainMohammadAG: yeah13:03
MohammadAGI suck at shell scripting13:03
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MohammadAGbut it should be easy13:03
pupnikMohammadAG: google, cut, paste :D13:03
njaini am unable to figure out how to if headphones are plugged in13:03
njainthe hal manager13:03
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MohammadAGlook at headphoned I guess13:03
njainreceives the signal deviceadded13:04
njaini wrote a two line python code13:04
SpeedEvilnjain: Can you in fact cause it to answer a call?13:04
njainusing dbus13:04
njainthats easy13:04
MohammadAGsignal sender=:1.10 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5079 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_soc_audio_logicaldev_input; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition13:05
MohammadAG   string "ButtonPressed"13:05
MohammadAG   string "jack_insert"13:05
njainit means a call is answered, and you don't have to pick out phone from your pocket13:05
njaini found this13:05
njainbut null destination object could not be made..13:06
MohammadAGnot sure about Python, but I can easily listen to that with QtDBus13:06
SpeedEvilnjain: I vaguely recall that the button on the headset does this already.13:06
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njainwith my headphones it doesn't13:06
njainanyways i wanna try it out..13:07
SpeedEvilThe stock headset?13:07
MohammadAGQDBusConnection::systemBus().connect("", "/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_soc_audio_logicaldev_input", "org.freedesktop.Hal.Device", "Condition", QObject, SLOT(someSlot()))13:08
MohammadAGis that it would look like with Qt13:08
MohammadAGbtw, signal sender=:1.10 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5160 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_headphone; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition13:09
MohammadAG   string "ButtonPressed"13:09
MohammadAG   string "connection"13:09
MohammadAGlistening to that would be better I guess13:09
MohammadAGonly problem is that the same signal is sent on connect and disconnect13:10
DocScrutinizerthe button on all standard one-button headsets compliant with shall answer calls when pressed13:13
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DocScrutinizeralso end call when pressed a second time13:14
MohammadAGdoes the stock headset follow that?13:14
MohammadAG(the spec)13:14
MohammadAGso qwerty12's headset-control should work on all headsets with one button?13:15
DocScrutinizerNokia explicitly stated that their devices all follow this spec13:15
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DocScrutinizerthat's where I found it13:15
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DocScrutinizerseems Nokia is a member of OMTP and contributed or even initiated that spec13:16
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alteregoAh, sunday morning tmo trolling13:19
DocScrutinizerit's still largely unclear how those multi-button multimedia headsets work, but definitely they seem to be incompatible for the button operation, at least to the way the N900 driver reads out that signal. N95 has a similar hardware to handle headsets and obviously can handle multibutton13:19
timeless_w7ipdoc: depending on whose headset you're talking about13:21
timeless_w7ipthey use a proprietary protocol13:21
timeless_w7ipwhich required significant effort toimplement13:21
timeless_w7ips/toi/to i/13:21
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: which required significant effort to implement13:21
timeless_w7ip.. spread across multiple software stack levels13:22
delphiDocScrutinizer so they aren't supported on driver level?13:22
MohammadAGalterego, you still read that site?13:22
DocScrutinizeraccording to the source appearing somewhere on web Nokia has another linux device that will use a dedicated MCU ASIC to communicate to the MM-headsets13:22
DocScrutinizerdelphi: seems so13:23
DocScrutinizerthis source suggests the protocol is rather complex13:23
timeless_w7ipfurther, it wasn't a requirement and the hardware that was shipped was selected because it wasn't unsupported13:23
timeless_w7ip(we're practical, not always stupid)13:23
DocScrutinizerand probably any kind of serial, and also probably via mic similar to one-button13:23
timeless_w7ipobviously we have hardware which didn't work withour device, and obviously it was available in volume since it shipped w/ other devices13:24
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DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: you lost me on your last 3 posts13:25
DocScrutinizerlast 2.5 to be precise13:26
timeless_w7ipsimply put13:27
timeless_w7ipthere's a reason we shipped the headset we did13:27
timeless_w7ipinstead of a more complicated one13:27
timeless_w7ipwe definitely had more complicated headsets availalbe13:27
DocScrutinizersure, but that's never been a topic13:27
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: we definitely had more complicated headsets available13:27
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timeless_w7ipand the reason is that it wasn't practical to implement the necessary bits for the n90013:28
robbiethe1stOh; that makes sense - So, they just used a simpler headset13:28
robbiethe1stHm... the hardware13:28
DocScrutinizeryeah, ok. np. The topic (my topic) is slightly different though13:28
timeless_w7ipyeah, we used something that worked13:28
robbiethe1stIt'd do a better headset with proper driver, right?13:28
timeless_w7ipinstead of shipping something that wouldn't work13:28
timeless_w7iprobbie: the proper driver being split across 3 or more layers13:29
timeless_w7ipiirc including kernel13:29
timeless_w7ip"it'd do better with better software, it's only software"13:29
robbiethe1stAlright. But it's still a software problem, not hardware.13:29
DocScrutinizerit's not any question the shipped headset is both crap and standard compliant, as are all phones since ~4 years13:29
MohammadAGRetrieving information on the new media files.13:30
MohammadAGEstimated time remaining: %s13:30
MohammadAGhow do I pass an int to that strings?13:30
timeless_w7ipmy understanding is that doing it in software is hard and that it /might/ be possible to make it easier for the software if there was fancier hardware13:30
timeless_w7ipmohammadag: by first converting the int to a string13:30
MohammadAGthat's easy, then?13:30
DocScrutinizerit's just the point I dunno what exactly the PHY layer specs are for the MM-headsets, but I'm sure N900 could do as N900 has same hw as N9513:30
MohammadAGprintf? or is there some other Qt equivalent13:31
timeless_w7ipmohammadag: there should be a Qt thing for it13:31
timeless_w7iplook for Number.ToString or String.FromNumber or ...13:31
DocScrutinizerand of course bitbanging a serial 1 wire protocol in sw is tricky13:31
MohammadAGQString::fromNumber(), I mean is there something to pass that string to the translatable one13:31
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: sure13:31
DocScrutinizerwe been there, done that, for HDQ protocol of gta02 battery bq2700013:32
timeless_w7ipoddly i've actually even used it13:32
* timeless_w7ip did Qt work for VirtualBox not too long ago13:32
DocScrutinizerI gather that's why Nokia EE got requirement specs for a MCU ASIC to handle that protocol on N9AA13:33
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DocScrutinizeranyway implementing such shit in sw, as kernel driver, is exactly my domain of expertise13:35
DocScrutinizerand I regularly piss of sw devels with layering violations13:36
DocScrutinizerbut in the end it always works13:36
DocScrutinizerI would have started with specifying the sw arch long ago, if somebody would've paid me for a MM-headset and a N95 plus a week's worth rent for a scope13:38
DocScrutinizeror - even better - Nokia would've disclosed this protocol specs13:39
DocScrutinizerI'd not even be surprised if the basic timing and protocol actually would be like HDQ13:41
timeless_w7ipi'm pretty sure i could get you the headset13:41
timeless_w7ipbut the n95 seems a bit harder to manage13:41
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jacekowskiwhat are we talking about?13:41
jacekowskifancy headsets?13:42
DocScrutinizerthe headset might suffice when I sacrifice it inder my microscope and screwdrivers13:42
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: multibutton headsets13:42
timeless_w7ipdoc: which country are you in?13:42
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: multibutton headsetsd13:42
jacekowskii have 3 buttons on my headset13:42
jacekowskinever tried them13:42
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you got a scope?13:43
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jacekowskiand analogue13:43
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DocScrutinizerN95 / any other Nokia capable of working with MB-hs?13:43
MohammadAGall new Nokias have it btw13:44
DocScrutinizermaybe even borrow?13:44
DocScrutinizerI gues they do13:44
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DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: I could use the headset when trying to implement the protocol on N90013:45
jacekowskibut then i have no way of connecting it all together13:45
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timeless_w7ipdoc: what country are you in?13:45
jacekowskitimeless_w7ip: germany13:45
timeless_w7ip(this affects shipping and point of origin costs)13:45
jacekowskii would have to get 4 pin plug and 4 pin socket13:45
* timeless_w7ip ponders13:45
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: could you wiretap the mic and L|R on 2 chan and record what'S going on when pressing a button?13:45
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DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: D13:46
timeless_w7ipi think we could probably arrange for one to be sent from germany to an address in german13:46
MohammadAGDE I guess13:46
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: t?13:46
MohammadAGfancy word for Germany?13:46
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: not d?13:46
timeless_w7ipwhen people ask me where i'm from, i don't say 'u' = 'uae'13:46
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, have you got an idea how to connect scope to that headset13:46
jacekowskii don't have one13:47
DocScrutinizer3.5/4 male<->female13:47
DocScrutinizerI'll happily solder ne and send to you13:47
jacekowskii can solder one myself13:47
jacekowskiit's just matter of getting parts13:47
jacekowskiand i don't think 4 pin plugs/sockets are readily avaliable13:47
DocScrutinizerinsert 2R resistors in each wire, so you also can probe current13:48
DocScrutinizerand distinguish pull-to-gnd by hs from by device13:48
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: they are, no problem13:48
DocScrutinizereven Conrad has them13:49
MohammadAGI wonder if the N97 mini and the N95 headsets differ13:49
MohammadAGthe N95 has a two part headset, one of them is the headphones (normal 3.5mm plug), the other is the buttons13:50
trxi have one that came with my 5800, the cable can easily be disconected from the board13:50
trxso no need for adapters13:50
jacekowskifarnell has some13:50
MohammadAGthe N97 mini's headset is like the N900's, but with 3 buttons (or 5) instead of one13:50
MohammadAGall new Nokias have that instead of the N95's13:51
* MohammadAG checks the N8 packagge13:51
kwtmHi. Looking for text-based browser for N900.  I see we have lynx.  Do we also have elinks? (I see it's available for Diablo but I didn't find it for Fremantle.)  Do we also have links2?13:52
timeless_w7ipn8 has call, volume +/-, next, play-pause, previous13:52
jacekowskimaplin has them13:52
timeless_w7ipi'd call that 6 buttons13:52
timeless_w7ipbut counting the +/- may be hard13:52
jacekowskii'll be back later13:53
jacekowskigoing to maplin13:53
MohammadAG<timeless_w7ip> i'd call that 6 buttons13:54
DocScrutinizer female13:54
MohammadAGplay/pause are the same button13:54
DocScrutinizer male13:55
DocScrutinizernicely goldplated13:56
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ^^^13:57
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: make that 10R, not 2R13:59
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DocScrutinizer3 of them: mic, L, R. Six testpoints, 3 "before" the Rs, 3 at headset side "after" the Rs14:00
DocScrutinizerduh, plus GND of course =714:00
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trx5800XM one has Prev, Next, Stop, Play/Pause, Vol+, Vol-, Answer and the lock switch14:02
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DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter. 2 and 55 buttons all will be handled and signalled same way, serial over analog, probably via mic pin (maybe with clock on L/R - but I seriously doubt that)14:04
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trxi could get an access to a scope14:04
trxthe thing is, i never used one14:04
DocScrutinizereither they "morse" the data by "ultrafast pressing" of the one-button short-to-gnd thing14:05
DocScrutinizertrx: then it's useless14:05
jacekowskiif i have volume + answer buton14:05
jacekowskiwill that do?14:05
DocScrutinizeror they use some kind of "carrier" to transmit the serial data14:05
jacekowskior that doesn't have enough buttons?14:06
jacekowskiand hmm, that's a pain14:06
DocScrutinizerif it doesn't work with N900 but does with N95 then it will be sufficient14:06
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jacekowskii either have 2 channel with nice interface to pc or 4 channels with slow rs232 interface to pc ( and i don't have correct cable with me anyways )14:07
jacekowskibut well14:07
DocScrutinizerwe prolly don't need >2 chan14:07
jacekowskifirst i have to get plugs14:07
MohammadAGI thought you went to maplin14:07
jacekowskinot yet14:08
DocScrutinizerI'm rather sure mic wire is all we need to probe14:08
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DocScrutinizersee my comment above, I guess it's some flavour of HDQ protocol14:08
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trxcan't we just "listen" to the crap coming into the n900?14:09
jacekowskitrx: how?14:09
DocScrutinizeryou can read about HDQ in bq27000 datasheet14:09
jacekowskitrx: with a scope14:09
jacekowskitrx: how to connect scope?14:09
DocScrutinizertrx: I tried that, to no success14:09
jacekowskitrx: you need plugs and stuff14:09
trxyou open the headset14:09
jacekowskithen you break it14:09
trxand disconnect the wires you need14:09
jacekowskiand i don't want to break my only headset14:10
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trxi didnt mean that14:10
DocScrutinizertrx: when you disconnect wires, then nothing will work14:10
trxi mean connect the scope directly14:10
DocScrutinizeryou need to probe a working set14:10
jacekowskihmm, simplest way to check if headset is working is calling my phone and pressing button14:10
DocScrutinizerwe'll use an extension cable for that14:11
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: pressing vol+/- while listening to music, and see if you can level down at hs and level back up at phone - makes sure the vol+/- is transmitted to phone14:12
trxyou tried connecting the headset to the n900 and listening if anything "comes up"?14:12
trxhow are we to listen when we figure out the signals?14:12
DocScrutinizerrecorded from headset14:12
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jacekowskinothing happens14:13
DocScrutinizeralso probed headset with R-meter and found it does nuttin while pressing keys14:13
trxwhat i mean is, we would need a driver anyway14:13
DocScrutinizerthat's what we are about to investigate14:14
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MohammadAGthen after a driver you need to "wire" the policy crap correctly14:15
DocScrutinizerhypothesis: headset needs power, so micbias will be on. micbias delivered from N95 will be within specs for 'normal' hs, i.e. 2..3V@2kR14:15
MohammadAGactually, no, it detects it has a headset14:15
timeless_w7ipmohammad: yes, play-pause is one, but vol+ and vol- are two, and call is a button.... i don't see how you can have trouble w/ my math14:16
DocScrutinizerN95 won't poll, that means first pulse comes from headset when pressing button14:16
jacekowskiwell i suppose power is same in both cases14:16
jacekowskiit's just signaling that's different14:16
jacekowskiotherwise they would risk blowing up something14:16
DocScrutinizervague hypothesis: N95 will ACK this first pulse, then start applying clock to read out further data14:17
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: exactly14:17
* timeless_w7ip loves it when people don't believe/listen14:17
DocScrutinizerthat's been part2 of my first hypothesis post above14:18
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: ?14:18
kwtmIs there a way to read winmail.dat (TNEF-format) attachments sent by Microsoft Outlook?14:18
timeless_w7ipkwtn: google?14:18
jacekowskikwtm: yes14:19
jacekowskikwtm: there are programs that can extract tnef14:19
kwtmjacekowski: Great!  There is hope!  Which maemo package keyword should I look for?14:19
jacekowskikwtm: don't remember14:19
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Yeah, the wife uses Blackberry with her company mSEXchange server, and doesn't understand why I can't see the 20 PDF's embedded inside the giant winmail.dat file. :(14:20
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kwtmjacekowski: As far as you remember, is this a stand-alone cmd-line thing to extract from a saved winmail.dat, or is it something that integrates into the built-in email reader?14:21
DocScrutinizersorry, NFC14:21
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jacekowskikwtm: standalone commandline thing14:23
* DocScrutinizer wonders if it wasn't saner to teach that crackberry/sexch crap to use IETF RFC formats rather than try to cope with proprietary tinnef14:23
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DocScrutinizernext step: teach modest to read account details out of a copied M$ registry binary file14:26
* DocScrutinizer shudders14:26
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm trying to see if my MicroSD is really fried14:28
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MohammadAG[11498.794831] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card <-- on PC14:28
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DocScrutinizernow you also fried your SD?14:28
MohammadAGon an N86 it causes a kernel panic14:28
MohammadAGnah, it fried itself 3 months ago14:29
DocScrutinizeryeah those errors look like solidly fried and welldone14:29
MohammadAGI like how the N86 just crashes14:29
MohammadAGit can't respond to anything, it doesn't even boot up when the card's in14:30
DocScrutinizerwonders of sybian14:30
MohammadAGI blame MeeGo, I used that card for testing!14:30
DocScrutinizerumm, quite possible. There's been a ticket iirc14:30
MohammadAGnow where do I get some sulphuric acid...14:30
* SpeedEvil has a barrel of 94%14:31
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DocScrutinizercar battery14:31
SpeedEvil'It seemed like a good idea at the time'14:31
* SpeedEvil should not be left alone with a credit card.14:31
DocScrutinizerprobably mad useful for killing weed14:31
SpeedEvilOr plating stuff.14:31
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: are you still unemployed?14:32
SpeedEvilI was intending to use it for large-scale plating/electrodeposition experiemntes for regenerative rocket engine nozzles and combustionchambers.14:32
SpeedEviljacekowski: Unfortunately, yes.14:32
MohammadAGon N900: [70157.500122] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card14:32
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you ARE a geek14:32
MohammadAGhmm, /me tries it on the PS3 for the lulz14:32
* DocScrutinizer envisions SpeedEvil standing at the side of a small steaming stinking pool in his garden and watching the leafs fall off the trees nearby14:34
kwtmThx for info about winmail.dat.  Unrelated question: I have installed lynx from extras-devel, but some help files seem to be missing.  In particular, "dpkg -L lynx" shows that files like "/usr/share/doc/lynx/lynx_help/leystrokes/cookie_help.html" (for example) were (supposed to be) installed, but the entire /usr/share/doc/lynx directory is missing.  How can I get the web site to list what's actually in the lynx package to14:34
kwtmsee if the files are in the ".deb" file in the first place?14:34
DocScrutinizerThat's actually sth I wondered myself yesterday14:35
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: (still unemployed) are you asking for hints about what you're facing?14:37
timeless_w7ipkwtm: the n900 has limited storage14:37
timeless_w7ipso it uses "docpurge"14:37
timeless_w7ipwhich suppresses /usr/share/doc14:37
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Hmm.  I guess that's an indication I might not be able to have that question answered.  Ok, well, I think I'll install Lynx on my desktop and then rsync the files over to the N900.14:37
DocScrutinizeryeah, what a crap14:38
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Oh, crumm.  Is that why man pages are non-existent?14:38
DocScrutinizerkwtm: mompls14:38
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Is this "docpurge" thing something that automatically happens each time I install a package, or the packages just come this way?  Geez, 32GB storage --you'd think they could include a few man pages. :P14:39
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# man lynx14:39
DocScrutinizerNo manual entry for lynx14:39
* DocScrutinizer frowns14:39
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Sorry ... "mompls"?14:39
DocScrutinizermoment please14:39
timeless_w7ipkwtm: err14:39
timeless_w7ipthere's 32gb of space for *user* storage14:39
timeless_w7ipthere's um14:39
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: mandb-n900 pkg14:40
kwtmOh, that's what it stands for.  ... yeah, most of the time I can do without man pages since I can always look them up on the web ... with lynx ... if only I could navigate it properly with the proper keystrokes ... if I had the FRIKKKN keystrokes help file!!!  :(14:40
DocScrutinizerkwtm: don'tlisten to those youngsters that never had a linux box with a 80MB(sic!) HDD and complete manpages14:41
timeless_w7ipdoc: some of us used hdds w/ <40mb of space14:41
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Yeah, I never figured out the distinction ... and I never understood why people wanted it formatted for some retarded DOS filesystem that doesn't even support symlinks.  Someday when I get half a moment I'm going to reformat for ... what does the rest of the N900 use, ext3 or ReiserFS?14:42
* DocScrutinizer too, not for linux though14:42
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timeless_w7ipkwtm: you don't care about being able to use your n900 w/ a second computer?14:42
kwtmMy first working Linux was BasicLinux with 20MB hard drive.14:42
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timeless_w7ipmost *humans* like being able to plug their phones into a desktop or laptop and copy songs or stuff across14:42
timeless_w7ipfor this to work you need to either support MTP which some hackers curse14:43
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kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Not with a computer that requires MicroS**t compatible system.  I use my N900 with a second computer by SSH'ing into the N900. :)14:43
timeless_w7ipor something like FAT which some hackers also curse14:43
DocScrutinizerkwtm: see
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timeless_w7ipkwtm: you aren't a human14:43
DocScrutinizerabout changing size of partitons14:43
timeless_w7ipand thus are not relevant to design decisions14:43
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Yeah, that's what I'm told.14:43
timeless_w7ipkwtm: do you honestly think the average person uses ssh?14:44
timeless_w7ipyou're welcome to fsck up your n900 as much as you like once you buy it14:44
kwtmtimeless_w7ip, do YOU think the average person uses a N900?  :)14:44
timeless_w7ipbut nokia's goal in designing the n900 was to sell the n900 to as many people as possible14:44
pupnikthere's a n online game with like 50k people that has an SDL client unported btw14:44
timeless_w7ipand oddly enough it did an incredibly good job14:44
timeless_w7ipfor a product it wasn't really trying to sell at all14:45
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Do you recommend resizing partitions more than changing the entire ~/MyDocs to ext3? (or whatever it uses...)14:45
DocScrutinizerthat's been the fundamental flaw in N900 concept14:45
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Yeah, never quite figured out what Nokia wanted to do with the N900 until recently when Elop said, "Hey, let's have intercourse with Micros**t!"14:45
DocScrutinizerkwtm: some apps need that vfat it seems14:45
timeless_w7ipkwtm: please don't curse here14:45
timeless_w7ipif you want to curse, go elsewhere14:46
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Sorry, ** = "of".  Did you think I meant anything else? :)14:46
timeless_w7ipplease note that the n900 design decisions were made roughly 3 years ago14:46
timeless_w7ipkwtm: i think you're being an a**hole14:46
timeless_w7ip** = lt14:46
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: What's a aofhole?14:46
kwtmOk, point taken with the asterisks,.14:46
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Ahh... so I really do need the vfat partition, then ...14:47
timeless_w7ipelop joined nokia <1 year ago14:47
timeless_w7ipso any design decisions made for the n900 happened >2 years before he joined14:47
timeless_w7ipand blaming him for them is absolutely *insane*14:47
DocScrutinizerkwtm: suggestion is to keep like 1GB, maybe 500M14:47
timeless_w7ipplease don't try to sound stupid, it's incredibly easy but will not win you any respect14:47
timeless_w7ipcompatibility with other devices is a general goal14:47
timeless_w7ipit makes it easier for sales clerks to sell products14:48
timeless_w7ipand it reduces returns stemming from "this doesn't work with my x"14:48
timeless_w7ipboth of which are important when you're in the business of selling hardware14:48
timeless_w7ipas for whether average people use n900s, i've seen more n900s than i expected14:48
timeless_w7ipand we sold more than we expected14:48
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: the general product requirement specs of N900 to comply with M$ lusers been a major fault14:48
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timeless_w7ipand they're definitely used by people who use normal computers14:49
timeless_w7ipincluding apple macintoshes and windows14:49
DocScrutinizeryeah, like me14:49
timeless_w7ipdoc: not really14:49
timeless_w7ipthe size balance was a marketing decision14:49
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timeless_w7ipoptification design was an engineering flaw unrelated to the fat partition choice or the partition size14:50
timeless_w7ipkwtm: anyway14:50
timeless_w7ipyour device has 256mb of core storage14:50
DocScrutinizerNokia UX dudes failed epically on adapting maemo to windows paradigms and lusers' expectations, and they spoiled quite some bits for the linux nerds14:50
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Your repartitioning web page seems to say that I have to re-aptgetinstall everything after I repartition and then reflash?14:50
timeless_w7ipwell over half of that is in use when we ship the device14:51
DocScrutinizerkwtm: it's the most simple 1 cmdline tweak to partition size, done prior to flashing14:51
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Just to clarify: I was not blaming Elop, just saying that Nokia's direction was not clear until he joined.14:51
DocScrutinizerthere are other ways but they are way more complicated14:51
timeless_w7ipkwtm: well14:51
timeless_w7ipthe reason it wasn't clear is because it didn't have one14:52
timeless_w7ipyour statement implied it had a secret one14:52
timeless_w7ipwhich is false14:52
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timeless_w7ipand there's an incredibly significant difference between having a secret agenda14:52
timeless_w7ipand not having an agenda at all14:52
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kwtmI probably deserve to seem stupid but didn't want to seem *that* stupid.  I just didn't realize that Nokia's poor decisions had such a deep-seated cause until Elop brought to light how bad things were internally at Nokia.14:52
timeless_w7ipelop did not "unveil a secret plan from 5 years ago"14:52
timeless_w7ipkwtm: ok, just in the future, please be *much* more careful with your choice of words14:53
timeless_w7ipwords are incredibly powerflu14:53
timeless_w7ip477M    /usr/share/14:53
timeless_w7ipis a size from a random linux box i'm using right now14:53
timeless_w7ipkeep in mind that the file system for the n900 is only 256mb large and needs to host an os14:53
timeless_w7ipapp devs have a tendency to stick lots of crap in /usr/share14:54
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: get a cup of coffee and a cig14:54
timeless_w7ipwhich 99% of the population never touch14:54
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timeless_w7iperr, sorry14:54
timeless_w7ip94M     /usr/share/doc/14:54
timeless_w7ipbut still, if we allocated 100mb for /usr/share/doc/14:54
pupnika smaller root filesystem saves battery, yes?14:54
timeless_w7ipthere wouldn't be any space for apps14:54
timeless_w7ippupnik: saves on cost14:55
DocScrutinizerpupnik: how that?14:55
timeless_w7ipthe flash used for the root file system is faster and smaller14:55
timeless_w7ipbuying more flash in that form costs more14:55
DocScrutinizermarginally faster14:55
pupnikDocScrutinizer: dunno, smaller emmc device costing less energy?14:55
timeless_w7ippupnik: we're not talking about emmc14:55
timeless_w7ipthis is about rootfs14:55
timeless_w7ipa different flash module14:55
pupnikoh what's it called?14:55
timeless_w7ipnand flash i suppose14:56
* timeless_w7ip shrugs14:56
DocScrutinizerpupnik: how does that help when we got a 32gb emmc anyway, and btw root is on NAND, not emmc14:56
timeless_w7ipthe problem is that they're both 'flash memory' and you can flash 'both' of htem14:56
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: the problem is that they're both 'flash memory' and you can flash 'both' of them14:56
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: your replacement for apt-get: that is intended to do the usual apt-get plus record the installations in a log file?  Is that necessary for me to change the partition size?  It is not clear to me what that does which "dpkg --get-selections >WhatIHaveInstalled.log" doesn't do.14:56
pupnikDocScrutinizer: do emmc / nand devices sleep?14:57
DocScrutinizerkwtm: no that's unrelated14:57
DocScrutinizerpupnik: not exactly14:57
timeless_w7ippupnik: the choice of 30gb (?) for user data was mostly marketing again14:57
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timeless_w7ipit sounds better and makes sufficient sense for the vast majority of users14:57
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Also: if I grasp this correctly, by changing a line in vanilla.bin, I can change the size of /home when I reflash.  So this is the vanilla.bin that is on my desktop before I flash it onto the N900, correct?14:58
timeless_w7ipyou're unlikely to manage to install 2gb of apps14:58
DocScrutinizerkwtm: only the first box is about partitioning14:58
timeless_w7ip(ignore the fact that there's a marketing allocation of 3/4gb for swap for another marketing item)14:58
DocScrutinizerkwtm: correct14:58
DocScrutinizerkwtm: to answer your next question: the rest of eMMC will get used for vfat14:59
timeless_w7ippupnik: sizes are basically tunables14:59
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kwtmOh!  I didn't realize it was that easy.  Ok, will probably do that sometime this week (I'm tuning/purging my laptop/desktop these next few days so will probably keep my N900 as is until everything on the desktop is shown to be working again.)14:59
timeless_w7ippicking defaults is hard14:59
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Oh!  I didn't realize I had a next question, but now that you mention it, I suddenly have this urge to ask ... How does it know how much I want for vfat?  --Oh!  You answered it already. :)15:00
timeless_w7ipbut you often turn to marketing which makes a call based on what it thinks makes sense unless you can come up w/ a better reason not to15:00
timeless_w7ipkwtm: if you want to take pictures15:00
timeless_w7ipor worse.. movies15:00
timeless_w7ipyou want space for them15:00
timeless_w7ip(yes, the camera is among the thinks which is picky about having a fat volume)15:00
timeless_w7ippart of the reason for that is that it wants to know when the place where it's trying to save isn't available because it's exported to a usb host15:01
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Hmm... ok, so the camera requires vfat.  Hmm... I do take pictures/movies ... what to do what to do..15:01
DocScrutinizercamera will happily store to uSD though15:01
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kwtmDocScrutinizer to the rescue!  I suppose I can check if camera has a setting to store to uSD?  Come to think of it, I think that's what I've got it set at right now.15:02
* pupnik has gone from wishing the n900 were better to being happy it ever was produced15:02
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kwtmSpeaking of which, can the N900 handle uSD >16GB?  No such card has been available locally so I never asked.15:03
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: allegedly yes15:03
kwtmpupnik: I've taken to assuming that, any moment now, I will be the only N900 user left on this planet.  Which is why I'm installing all sorts of stuff on my N900 now even though I might not use it for a long long time.15:03
pupnikwhat do u mean, there's no replacement device in-sight15:04
HRH_H_Crabim still using mine.15:04
DocScrutinizerI'll use mine for a loooong time to come15:04
HRH_H_Crabif i had the cash id buy another spare too for when this one dies.15:04
pupnikplanning for another one here too15:04
HRH_H_Crabif i had a LOT of cash id prob. buy multipe spares.15:04
* DocScrutinizer got ONE spare15:05
* DocScrutinizer would like to have another one15:05
kwtmpupnik: What I mean is: the N900 ecosystem is fragile.  There might not be replacement parts, and if I upgrade to PR 1.3 there won't be a Nokia person at the other end of the helpline to say, "We'll support you!"15:05
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DocScrutinizerhelpline has de facto moved to <here>15:06
kwtmand I'm paranoid about the USB port now ... I've got my universal battery charger ... figuring out how to SSH into the N900 in case the keyboard fails or my screen gets cracked ...15:06
pupnikkwtm: it's not exactly like buying a symbian/apple phone in that regard15:06
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Yeah, I'm so glad the maemo community is here.15:06
pupnikwhat kind of question would you ask a support line?15:07
DocScrutinizerkwtm: I sympathize with your mindset15:07
pupniki haven't even been able to think of one that i'd expect them to be able to answer15:07
kwtmYou know, I can't seem to find where to tell my camera to capture to uSD instead of flash memory.  Not in "camera" or "settings".  Can someone refresh my memory?15:07
DocScrutinizerin camera15:08
kwtmpupnik: I already used Nokia twice to return the first two N900's that I bought.15:08
DocScrutinizerclick on card icon iirc15:08
kwtmDocScrutinizer: I tap on the ... ohhh, the CARD icon!  Let me try..15:08
pupnikwhat was defective kwtm (!)15:08
ShadowJKopen lens cover, tap preview so you get titlebar frame, tap titlebar, tap general settings15:08
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DocScrutinizermeh, tap on card icon bottom left15:09
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕15:10
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kwtmpupnik: Ohhh... well, after fiddling with it for a bit, it wouldn't boot properly, until I reflashed.  Then it would happen again.  Since I didn't reboot the N900 too often, it was not obvious exactly when it would switch over to this state where a reboot would cause it to hang, and what I was doing (if anything) to cause it.15:11
kwtmAfter spending a long time in this IRC channel and in the forums, we tried switching uSD cards and SIM cards and it would still happen, so I thought it might be a bad unit, or (after buying another one from the same store) a bad batch.15:12
pupnikdid you resolve the issue?15:12
kwtmAfter the same problem happened with a unit I got from Amazon instead of the local electronics store, I thought maybe, just maybe, there was actually a bug in the software.  [omit mention of the derision I got from some N900 experts here ...]15:12
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kwtmanyway, it turned out that a 2-line text file which does not exist by default on the N900, which if present, can cause one of the installed-by-default pieces of software on the N900 to prevent being able to boot properly.15:13
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pupnikwhere was this textfile stored and what did it contain?15:14
pupnikmuch of the configuration of linux devices is in text files15:14
kwtmSo, the lesson is, never assume that anything you do on the N900 is safe and won't interact with other software, no matter how ridiculous it might seem that such a harmless thing can bring down a $500 piece of equipment.15:14
kwtmThe text file is ~/.profile  ... which, to all rights, should NOT be executed by the shell unless it's an interactive shell.15:15
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kwtmFurthermore, if the shell DOES decide to execute it, and it results in an error, it should NOT cause the entire device to lock up on booting! :(15:16
pupniki didn't know it read .profile on boot either15:16
kwtmIn the ~/.profile, I sourced a longer .profile stored in flash storage ... which is not yet mounted on bootup.  So then it just decides to flash those five bootup dots forever.15:17
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kwtmAnd here I was, trying to figure out how to download the flash image from my crummy connection on my hotel room ...15:17
* timeless_w7ip ponders15:17
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timeless_w7ipare you sure about your claims for .profile?15:17
kwtmunable to make phone calls on my cell because the N900 was in "forever dots" mode.15:17
pupnikyou're serious?15:17
timeless_w7ipmy naive reading says ".profile is executed each time you log in"15:18
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: When I removed the ~/.profile, it worked.15:18
timeless_w7ipto me when i start X, i've "logged in"15:18
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pupniki'm surprised i haven't messed up my .profile yet15:19
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: I could be wrong.  My understanding is that .bashrc or .shlogin whatever the equivalent is for logging in, and .profile is for when I get a shell prompt.15:19
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: But possibly the N900 considers the GUI as a form of having logged in.15:19
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: But I continue to think that, if a file is non-existent, the resulting error should not render the device unbootable.15:20
timeless_w7ipkwtm: if you can break the device from the gui (x terminal is not the gui) without installing third party software15:20
timeless_w7ipthen it's a bug15:20
kwtmWe also had a lively discussion about whether the N900 should have a reset button like my desktop or the Treo (e.g 650 which I had been using previously)15:20
timeless_w7ipif you can't, then you're taking advantage of your powers as a user to break everything15:21
ShadowJKiirc there's a "set" statement that makes commands in a script not fail entire script15:21
ShadowJKbut I just added ||echo "Oh no" to everything I add15:21
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: I guess I'll just say we all have our own opinions about what does or does not constitute a bug, and leave it at that.15:21
timeless_w7ipkwtm: a bug is something that doesn't work according to design15:22
timeless_w7ipthe design allows you to break the device as much as you like by installing third party software or using xterminal15:22
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: I guess I'll just say we all have our own opinions about what does or does not constitute reasonable design, and leave it at that.15:22
timeless_w7ipif we *didn't* allow you to break your device15:22
timeless_w7ipyou'd scream bloody murder15:22
timeless_w7ipyou can't have that both ways15:22
kwtmAnyway ... so, watch out for ~/.profile15:22
timeless_w7ipi suggest you be happy w/ the tradeoff of being able to break your device15:23
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Well, that wasn't the main issue .. the main issue was that no one else had encountered this problem before, so it was difficult to track down.15:23
timeless_w7ipotherwise, you should buy an iPhone15:23
timeless_w7ipthere are an infinite number of ways to break a unix system15:23
timeless_w7ipso yeah, it's unfortunate that you found a less travelled path :)15:23
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Just to be clear, I'm NOT accusing you of breaking my device.15:23
timeless_w7ipoh good15:24
BCMMtimeless_w7ip: y'know, the iphone runs Unix...15:24
timeless_w7ipsadly you're unhappy about my employer and my larger team15:24
timeless_w7ipbcmm: well15:24
timeless_w7ipit uses a mach kernel15:24
timeless_w7ipand runs iOS15:24
timeless_w7ipwhether people would call it unix, i dunno15:24
ShadowJKBCMM, but they dont let you tinker with it15:24
kwtmAaaanyway, so that's why I'm really careful nowadays about what I do with my N900 ...15:24
BCMMi know15:24
timeless_w7ipOS X is unix, yes15:24
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BCMMisn't iOS Darwin-based?15:25
timeless_w7ipand on OS X, you do have the abilities given to you by unix to break your mac in an infinite number of ways15:25
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kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Well, I guess I really had high hopes for Nokia, and part of it was going in the right direction in terms of having the support of the Open Source community ... but sadly that is not going to continue. :(15:25
timeless_w7ipiOS does not however give you that power15:25
timeless_w7ipand that's a design choice15:25
timeless_w7ipit isn't a "bug"15:25
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timeless_w7ipjust as the n900 *does* give you that power15:25
timeless_w7ipand you exercising that power is not a bug per se15:25
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timeless_w7ipit may lead to unfortunate results15:26
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Well, I got a lot of "you're such a NOOB!  I've had my N900 for 6 months now and I'15:26
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Well, I got a lot of "you're such a NOOB!  I've had my N900 for 6 months now and I've NEVER had it unable to boot!" etc. etc.15:26
timeless_w7ipkwtm: did you use tmo or something?15:26
timeless_w7ipif so, i'm sorry :)15:26
kwtmWhat's tmo?15:26
timeless_w7ipfor that, you do have my sympathies15:26
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: is this just me or are you actually in an argue-happy mood today? Did the cig and coffee fail on giving you some relief?15:26
timeless_w7ipdoc: i'm unhappy today, yes15:27
pupnikkwtm: well that's an unfortunate sequence of events :/15:27
BCMMkwtm: somewhere people say NOOB a lot :)15:27
BCMM(the forums)15:27
timeless_w7ipkwtm: if you don't know, count yourself as blessed and don't find out15:27
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kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Or is it just me?  If so, I'm sorry, I don't mean to argue.  Just saying that this N900 is very very precious to me now that we don't foresee more Linux support for such devices from Nokia.15:27
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BCMMi like TMO. it distract certain people who could end up on IRC without it.15:28
infobotit has been said that tmo is, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo15:28
* timeless_w7ip isn't sure how to reply to that15:28
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Oh, you mean where did I get the flak from?  No, actually, I got mostly good support from tmo.  The flak was from this IRC channel, actually.15:28
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timeless_w7ipkwtm: sorry to hear that15:29
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timeless_w7ipanyway, generally speaking a terminal on any os will enable you to break stuff15:29
timeless_w7ipand there's an implied contract that you should know what you're doing and remember what you've done15:29
kwtmI see now that there can be just a minority of people who can make things really intimidating for a noob.15:29
timeless_w7ipyou can break a windows computer or a macintosh similarly easily if you wield a command prompt15:30
mikhashappens with every community15:30
timeless_w7ipmy favorite is OS X w/ file vault15:30
timeless_w7ipif you ssh into a file vault'd user and log out15:30
timeless_w7ipthen you'll never be able to log into that user's account again15:30
timeless_w7ipbecause it doesn't unmount the volume15:30
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: Well, at the time we were suspicious of all sorts of packages from extras-devel, so I tried installing half of it at a time, installing different halves and seeing which combination of installed packages resulted in a crash.  Which is why I haven't been installing from extras-devel until recently.15:30
mikhassome people feel their opinion has more weight, because they've been there "from the beginning", or so15:30
timeless_w7ipand gets really pissed :)15:30
kwtmmikhas: Yes, I see that now.  But at the time I hadn't been on IRC a lot ; I just logged on because I was desperate to make a phone call and my cell phone had crashed. :P15:31
timeless_w7ipkwtm: the reason to be suspicious of third party <Stuff> is because it's usually to blame15:31
timeless_w7ipin this case it was a third party file created by you :)15:31
timeless_w7ipit's easier to finger third party software because that's easier to spot15:31
timeless_w7ipit's also easier to test/revert15:31
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that too15:32
kwtmSo, going back to the original reason I brought this up: now it's a tradeoff between "don't install from extras-devel because it might break the N900 again!" and "install from extras-devel now before the repository disappears in a Left Behind type scenario!"15:32
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timeless_w7ipnote that the same applies on windows, os x and other browsers15:32
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ??15:32
jacekowski13:37 < DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: (still unemployed) are you asking for hints about what you're facing?15:32
timeless_w7ipthe first step is "try safe mode (which disables third party drivers, addons, etc)"15:32
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jacekowskii have all plugs and sockets and stuff15:32
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timeless_w7ipkwtm: ah15:33
timeless_w7ipwell, install one app at a time15:33
timeless_w7ipand test all apps after you install each app15:33
timeless_w7ipbut actually15:33
timeless_w7ipthe right thing to do is to get someone to mirror it15:33
DocScrutinizerkwtm: I haven't found any *serious* problems with any devel sw15:33
kwtmI ask myself: if I am marooned on an island on the other side of the world, where no one has ever heard of Linux, for how long will I be able to use my smartphone?  (This actually happened, btw.)15:33
timeless_w7ipbecause as i learned, just because you install stuff doesn't mean you won't want to reinstall it later15:33
timeless_w7ipkwtm: your island has cellular/wifi? :)15:34
* timeless_w7ip prefers the islands that don't15:34
timeless_w7ipalso, it has A/C? :)15:34
timeless_w7ipagain, the islands which don't are better ;)15:34
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: I tried installing one app at a time, but because the crash would only happened at odd times, I couldn't actually trigged it to crash.  When I realized it was crashing on bootup, then I figured out how to reproduce the fault and it took only 2 hours to zero in on the problem.15:34
timeless_w7ip(wrt installing stuff, i had installed an app i really liked, but it disappeared from its repo, and after reflashing i couldn't reinstall it. had i saved the .deb's i'd have been fine)15:35
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: the island in question has wifi/cellular, yes.  Also A/C.  Also N900's for sale!  But no one has heard of Linux.15:35
timeless_w7ipn900's for sale!? wow15:35
timeless_w7ipget me the number for that island!15:35
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: It happened before I bought my N900.  I had my Treo, and a car charger for it, plus an adapter so I could plug the car charger into a wall socket.15:35
* timeless_w7ip nods15:36
timeless_w7ipstill a cool island15:36
jacekowskiwhere is that island15:36
kwtmtimeless_w7ip: (The sale price was higher than from  So, anyway... the adapter for the wall socket blew.  SO I couldn't charge my Treo.15:36
jacekowskiis it australia?15:36
kwtmjacekowski: Hong Kong.15:36
timeless_w7ipthat's a rather sizable island :)15:36
timeless_w7ipand sales there started late15:36
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DocScrutinizereeeew hong kong15:37
DocScrutinizerway too busy15:37
kwtmSo I looked around in the PLETHORA of electronic stores that cover Hong Kong.  Well, they've never heard of a car-charger-to-wall adapter.  Most people don't drive cars.15:37
* timeless_w7ip notes that it's roughly equivalent to calling Austalia or Japan "islands")15:37
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jacekowskikwtm: just get a car battery charger15:37
timeless_w7ipjacekowski: and a car?15:38
jacekowskikwtm: some of them have 12V socket on them15:38
kwtmThe Treo (curse you, Palm!) uses a non-standard charger that changes with each model of Treo.15:38
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kwtmjacekowski: I *have* a car battery charger.  I didn't have a car.  99% of the population don't.15:38
jacekowskias far as i know that agreement between manufacturers to use microusb for charging15:38
jacekowskiis now a law in eu15:38
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kwtmSo then I looked for a universal battery charger!  Guess what --the Treo battery is 2mm too large to fit in.15:38
jacekowskikwtm: no wonder why palm went bust15:39
jacekowskiand taken over by hp15:39
kwtmjacekowski: Yeah, I'm so glad there's that standard.  Treo sells a USB adapter for charging ... which, with express shipping, would arrive about 2 days after I left Hong Kong.15:39
jacekowskikwtm: isn't most of that stuff made i china anyways15:39
kwtmjacekowski: Hey, I was a  relatively early Palm adopter (Palm III was my first), and after they got bought by USRobotics, they were already showing signs of $BIG_COMPANY managing $SMALL_STARTUP15:40
pupnikmore gaming measurements - averaging around 390 mA current draw15:40
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kwtmjacekowski: Yeah, but you can't buy it in Hong Kong.  I asked, "Treo 650?" and they said, "Wasn't that from ancient history?  Like, from the Ming dynasty?  Everyone's using the Treo 9900000x nowadays --want a charger for *that*?"15:40
pupnikkwtm: can you order things on-line there?15:41
kwtmjacekowski: Then I got the TRGpro, and the HandEra, and then (what a mistake!) the Tungsten SomethingOrOther, and finally the Treo 650, before that charger fiasco made me say: No more Palm!15:41
kwtmpupnik: Yes, but I was only in Hong Kong for 3 weeks, and shipping would take too long.15:41
pupnikah annoying15:41
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kwtmSo (not that this conversation is related to Maemo any more) I was so paranoid that I had my Treo off all the time (it was on red-warning-low-battery mode by now) and couldn't rely on the calendar reminders (like "renew travel documents TODAY so you can travel back home!")...15:42
* pupnik raises a glass to micro-usb charging15:42
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MohammadAG~seen noobmok3y15:43
kwtmIt turns out that, once I was able to get it charged (finally found a wall charger in some far-off electronics store), the Treo uses practically no battery charge if you don't use it as a cell phone ...15:43
pupnikanother nice thing is a spare battery + universal charger, kwtm15:43
MohammadAG~seen noobmonk3y15:43
infobotMohammadAG: i haven't seen 'noobmok3y'15:43
infobotnoobmonk3y <~Noobmonk3@> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23d 18h 29m 2s ago, saying: 'lol'.15:43
kwtmpupnik: tried that.  Universal chargers nowadays won't fit the large Treo 650 battery.  It was just 2mm too large to squeeze in.15:44
* kwtm shudders.15:44
kwtmAnyway, microUSB chargers ftw.15:44
* DocScrutinizer curses USB charging15:44
kwtmNice talking with you guys.  I have to go purge some desktop/laptop Ubuntu setups and then reflash my N900.15:45
DocScrutinizerIt's like having a standard to convert arbitrary vacuum cleaners into hairdryer15:45
pupnikcheers kwtm15:46
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MacerDocScrutinizer: but at least you can use different chargers15:47
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DocScrutinizerMacer: you happened to notice you could use virtually any arbitrary Nokia charger (barrel type 3.5mm) for every Nokia phone, since 1997, and as well all universal PSU with a 4.5V setting and a matching 3.5mm adapter?15:55
DocScrutinizerplus those barrel plugs were WAY more ruggedized than any mini/micro-USB15:57
DocScrutinizerand magnitudes cleaner useage pattern15:58
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DocScrutinizeralso could handle *real* fastcharging, while USB is specified only up to 1000mA afaik15:59
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DocScrutinizerprobably requiring all devices have a 3.5mm stereo headset receptacle and the abuse that for charging would have been a saner concept than charging over USB16:00
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MacerDocScrutinizer: i meant other brand phone chargers16:01
DocScrutinizerso what?16:01
Macerwell. sometimes you might forget your proprietary nokia charger16:02
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DocScrutinizeryou can specify all phones need a 3.5mm barrel charger receptacle as easily as they specified all phones need to charge via USB16:02
Macermaybe nokia should have kept both16:02
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pupnikcharging over 3.5mm headset - cool idea DocScrutinizer16:02
Macerusb was already a standard16:02
Macerand... screw nokia anyways. they suck. nobody wants to follow nokidiot inc16:03
timeless_w7ipisn't usb more like 100 standards?16:03
pupniki love the idea16:03
DocScrutinizercharging over USB was nothing near any standard. Not even all phones having an USB was any standard, neither defacto nor written16:03
ShadowJKusb wasnt a standard, in fact, many pre-standard usb chargers are incompatible with standards compliant devices :)16:04
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: would you like to kick Macer ?16:04
Macerbut i am sure the usb charging was easier to implement as a charging solution16:04
Maceracross the board16:04
pupnikbut more phones have a 3.5mm jack16:04
DocScrutinizerMacer: not at all. USB charging gives endless headache16:04
timeless_w7ippupnik: a lot of phones don't though :)16:05
DocScrutinizersee N810, has nice USB hostmode *because* it doesn't need to charge via USB16:05
MacerDocScrutinizer: to you maybe. only time i thought it was an issue was when i couldnt charge and listen to music in headphones on my g116:05
DocScrutinizerMacer: who gives a fsck about *your* headache16:06
DocScrutinizerare *you* designing the hardware?16:06
Macerwho gives a fsck about yours? ;)16:06
DocScrutinizerabout mine all those bother that get kicked ass when the EE design doesn't meet my requirements16:07
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DocScrutinizerso it's their headache as well16:07
Maceri think the goal was to allow charger swapping. he usb stuff was probably already in place to be manufactured whereas developing a "new" standard would require more time.. and most importantly... money16:08
DocScrutinizerand you bet it's been Nokia EE's headache when they found they had to bin hostmode on N900 due to USB charging16:08
Macernokia could have added a secondary host16:09
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DocScrutinizerMacer: stop telling BS. 3.5mm barrel is from 1997 as I already explained above. No need to "invent a new standard"16:09
Macerthey didnt because it cost too much and they could care less about some usb host mode hackery16:09
DocScrutinizerMacer: no, you mustn't16:09
DocScrutinizerread USB-OTG specs16:09
DocScrutinizerMacer: you're soo err smart. I dunno what to answer16:10
ShadowJKusb charting *was* a new standard. Existing stuff didnt work with it. This is why hostmode is so difficult on n900, they had to add a separate chip to meet the new usb charging standard16:10
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timeless_w7ipshadowjk: s/charting/charging/ ;-)16:11
MacerShadowJK: they didn't HAVE to. they wanted to. they could have just as easily used their older charging method. there isnt a law preventing them from doing that. i suppose it is just an idea to be able to charge while hooked up to a nokia netbook (running windows 7) to charge their new nokia phone (running winmob)16:12
* timeless_w7ip is pretty sure nokia committed to usb charging *before* the EU mandated it16:13
DocScrutinizerMacer: stop handwaving telling BS. There16:13
DocScrutinizer's a law that made manufs have USB charging16:13
timeless_w7ipnokia could have shipped 2 usb ports too16:13
timeless_w7ipbut ...16:13
DocScrutinizernot if trying to get USB-OTG cert16:13
Macerheh they could do whatever they wanted to16:13
timeless_w7ipdoc: you're only allowed one? :)16:13
timeless_w7ipwow, interesting16:14
DocScrutinizeronly one receptacle16:14
Macerthey could have used their older charger16:14
timeless_w7ipfwiw, oddly the n8 has two charging ports16:14
MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, not a USB one16:14
DocScrutinizeryou MAY have a dedicated charger receptacle in addition though16:14
timeless_w7ipmohammadag: um, they both work16:14
DocScrutinizer*not* USB formfactor16:15
MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, but one's a USB, the other isn't16:15
MohammadAGthe E75 has the same16:15
MacerDocScrutinizer: they are not required by some sort of law to adhere to a usb charging method are they?16:15
DocScrutinizerthey are16:15
timeless_w7ipmohammadag: careful w/ your English16:15
DocScrutinizeruhm yeah. Now please stop that BS16:16
timeless_w7ipthe n8 has *one* usb port which is a 'usb [charging] one' and one non usb port which is for charging too16:16
DocScrutinizercome back after reading specs and wiki16:16
MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, can't someone be lazy?16:16
Maceri would love to read this international law requirement that completely restricts hardware development16:16
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: now that'S really odd16:16
timeless_w7ipmohammadag: one can try, but it's incredibly risky16:16
timeless_w7ipdoc: i didn't say it wasn't16:17
Macerif you have a link i would love to read it16:17
timeless_w7ipmacer: it isn't about development16:17
timeless_w7iplaws generally cover sale16:17
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timeless_w7ip"you may not sell an <X> unless it does|has <Y>"16:17
timeless_w7ipe.g. "you may not sell electronics which does not have FCC certification"16:17
timeless_w7ipor whatever the EU equivalent is16:17
DocScrutinizerUSB-OTG specs aren't exactly unambiguous on that, but the usual way to read those is you must not have 2 USB receptacles16:18
timeless_w7ipdoc: lol16:18
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DocScrutinizerthough technically they speak about 2 USB host receptacles IIRC16:18
Macerwell. i would love to read the law that says "you must use usb charging and have no other method to charge all phones from this day forward"16:18
DocScrutinizerthere's no such law16:19
Macerthen.... nokia just said fu16:19
SpeedEvilIt's currently an agreement.16:19
DocScrutinizeryou friggin don't even read (or fail to understand) what's been written here 10 min ago16:19
SpeedEvilAnd there are moves afoot to make it mandatory in europe.16:19
SpeedEvilOr it may already be mandatory.16:19
DocScrutinizerit is16:19
DocScrutinizerin china it is since years16:20
timeless_w7ipmacer: i believe nokia committed to include usb charging16:20
timeless_w7ipthat's not an exclusive commitment16:20
DocScrutinizerbut they never forbid other alternative charging methods if they are *additional*16:20
timeless_w7ipas in the n816:20
Macertimeless_w7ip: i am sure they did16:20
timeless_w7ipnokia legal/pr isn't that stupid16:20
timeless_w7ipnote that practically speaking it's expensive to include and test both16:21
timeless_w7ipplus testing the case where people like <timeless> try to use both at once16:21
Macertimeless_w7ip: i am sure it is16:21
timeless_w7ipso eventually you'll only have the mandated itemms16:21
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: so eventually you'll only have the mandated items16:21
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timeless_w7ipbut.... that's not something you promise right away16:21
timeless_w7ipwhy bother16:21
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Macertoo bad i cant hook a usb kb up to my n90016:23
* Macer hides16:23
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DocScrutinizertoo bad you fail on trolling as much as you fail on arguing about design considerations and requirements16:26
DocScrutinizerand if you even fail on hooking up a kbd to your N900, that's really TOO bad16:28
DocScrutinizera large crown of noobs that have done exactly that without particular problems is laughing at you16:29
DocScrutinizercrowd even16:29
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if andridiot usage actually deteriorates wetware that rapidly, or Macer is just practicing trolling - on a rather beginner's level16:31
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Maceri gyhink your blood pressure rises too easily over meaningless arguments. start your own phone manufacturing company and you can design the perfect design all you want16:34
ZogGi made meego t-shirt - check it out
Macerconsidering the fact that... you get what you get and have to deal with it16:35
DocScrutinizerfsckoff, go carve your perfect phone for yourself. I'm not interested in your unqualified provocations16:35
MohammadAGfloat to int doesn't take time right?16:36
Macer:) your choice.16:36
MacerZogG: thats awesome16:36
MohammadAG<Macer> too bad i cant hook a usb kb up to my n900 <-- can't?16:36
alteregoMohammadAG: should take one tick16:36
alteregoOr les16:36
ZogGMacer right ah?16:36
alterego~less depending on architecture.16:36
ZogGMohammadAG, how is my t-shirt?16:36
MohammadAGalterego, ty :)16:37
MacerZogG: a grave with flowers in front of it with the maemo logo on the headstone would be cool too16:37
MohammadAGlol ZogG16:37
MohammadAGMacer, isn't there an #android channel somewhere? :P16:38
DocScrutinizerwhat an idiot, claiming X is perfect, then when you explain X is far from being perfect, just a requirement due to Y, he's suggesting "go start your own company to do it better" - how utterly missing the point16:38
MacerMohammadAG: saying maemo is dead doesnt make me hate it. it makes me miss it.16:39
Macerplus.. carman is great16:39
alteregoMaemo isn't dead until the last person leaves this channel and the last person doesn't post in tmo ..16:39
alteregoAnd the last device gets abandoned running maemo by the last uesr.16:39
infoboti heard user is currently detached. Talk to this user upon their return. You will now be ignored. [HackFactor Elite 2.0], or a synonym for moron16:39
* SpeedEvil notes there are still a couple of hundred people in #openmoko16:39
MohammadAGmultiplying a float by 100 should make it an int right?16:39
Macern810 with a windshield mount and the bt obd216:40
alteregoMohammadAG: no16:40
SpeedEvilOk - a hundred.16:40
alteregoMohammadAG: you have to cast it16:40
alteregoMohammadAG: a floats precision isn't just to two decimal places :P16:40
MohammadAGstatus : buffering status as a fraction (0.0 - 1.0).16:41
MacerSpeedEvil: how did that openmoko work out?16:41
MohammadAGit's not that precise here :P16:41
alteregoMohammadAG: ah, then multiply by 100 and cast to an int16:41
alteregoTo get integer percent, if that's what you're trying to do.16:41
MohammadAGlemme guess, (int) float?16:42
SpeedEvilMacer: It comedically worked out pretty much exactly like maemo has worked out in many ways.16:42
khorben_(some Gtk+ controls expect float values)16:42
SpeedEvilMacer: Though nokia asmittedly did produce a _lot_ more functional software stack.16:42
MohammadAGint percentage = (int) buffer*100 <-- i.e like that?16:42
MacerSpeedEvil: ah. thought quite a few people got freerunners16:43
khorben_int p = (int)(buffer*100); /* is better I think */16:43
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: while the OM one is a lot more open ;-D16:43
SpeedEvilBut - changing toolkits mid-stream, and back again - delays in hardware, company deciding it'd ratehr do other things than linux phones.16:43
SpeedEvilAll parallels.16:43
SpeedEvilMacer: ~5-10K16:43
SpeedEvilMacer: Whereas the n900 probably sold that in the first day or three of preorder.16:43
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: afaik 12k16:44
Maceronly because of the nokia name16:44
Macern900 did have so much promise tho. it is a shame16:44
Maceri sometimes think companies try to reduce fun on their devices on purpose16:45
kerioit's because they're idiots16:45
Macerbecause if you are able to keep a phone awesome for 10 years nobody will buy one of your new ones16:45
khorben_(sony ps3 + linux)16:46
kerioif you're able to keep a phone awesome for 10 years but you make even more awesome phones, you'll still sell well16:46
Macerthe cooperate mentality16:46
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: at least "we" released all we possibly could, enabling 'the community' to continue developing on a proper sw stack, which actually is an ongoing effort16:46
Macerkerio: yeah. i think that too16:46
DocScrutinizerso in a number of regards OM is more alive than maemo16:46
kerioi have no idea what to buy after the n900 as of now :(16:46
Macerkerio: hah. get a nokia winmob phone16:47
khorben_is it obsolete?16:47
Macerand find out how to install meego on it16:47
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: any if there's anything still missing to get published, I'm more than happy to help out16:47
keriokhorben_: no, but i always want new shiny toys anyway16:47
khorben_ah, that's another issue :p16:47
keriothere's no toy that's sufficiently shiny and sufficiently open as of now :(16:48
khorben_that's plenty of time to improve OSS support then :)16:49
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: calypso firmware source? :)16:49
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: but indeed - OM is much more open than n900.16:49
DocScrutinizerquery me, but don't rise hopes too high. Not even OM got more than maybe 10% of it16:50
DocScrutinizerand that'S the boring 10%16:50
SpeedEvilIn practice, I'm not interested really.16:50
SpeedEvilI don't have the time or skills to give it the poking it should have, even if I did have it.16:50
khorben_osmocom ftw16:51
DocScrutinizerall you can poke is AT interpreter and hw tty handshake16:51
DocScrutinizeror go osmocom16:51
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SpeedEvilYeah. I'm meaning similar to osmocom.16:51
keriowhy can't we get at least *the source* to rapuyama anyway?16:52
SpeedEvilBut starting from working code.16:52
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SpeedEvilkerio: trade secrets.16:52
DocScrutinizerosmocom is based on that featurephone calypso FW, so it's more of a working code (in %) than I could share to you from 'official' OM sources16:52
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dangergrrlhow do you get sip in .au?16:53
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kerios/trade secrets/the code is really, really, really awful and kludgy/16:56
dangergrrlit was a serious question16:56
DocScrutinizerkerio: yeah, cert issues and trade secrets. But even when you get that source it won't help a lot, as you can't mess with it. It's locked like milestone. You can't flash without signing the image with a private key that is in Nokia's steel safe16:56
kerioDocScrutinizer: yeah but figuring out what it can do could help16:56
DocScrutinizeryou're free to disassemble it. jacekowski did16:57
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keriothat's not enough source-y16:57
DocScrutinizeryou're not enough hacker-y16:58
kerioi'm not :(16:58
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jacekowskii have my plugs and stuff soldered16:58
dangergrrlso is there or such?16:59
dangergrrloh ti is giving out a cortex a9 protoboard16:59
dangergrrli entered16:59
dangergrrlno display17:00
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i can hear something in headphones when pressing buttons17:00
dangergrrlbut it's like dual core 1ghz n900 with no screen17:00
jacekowskion n9517:00
jacekowskiand nothing on n90017:01
pupniki am getting my butt kicked by sdl right now17:01
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: so maybe they actually clock via L/R17:01
dangergrrlam i too ugly to get sip even here?17:01
dangergrrloh doc you are in germany?17:01
jacekowskiand when you plug in you can hear something like 1s after plugging in17:01
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dangergrrlare you german?17:02
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's this obscure "readout of config storage" I bet17:02
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dangergrrli am in fact linuxian17:02
jacekowskisomething is wrong17:02
jacekowskiwhen i plug in these headphones using my cable17:02
jacekowskiit asks what is it17:02
dangergrrlcan i have yr sip again?17:03
dangergrrli'll even show my video :(17:03
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: any idea why my cable connected breaks things17:05
DocScrutinizeryou got those Rs?17:06
trxdiffrent resistance?17:06
DocScrutinizerok, so not17:06
jacekowskiit's just plain extension cable17:06
DocScrutinizerdoublecheck wiring17:06
jacekowskithat's 20cm long17:06
jacekowskii did17:06
DocScrutinizertriple check17:07
DocScrutinizeruse R-meter to check17:07
jacekowskiit works on my pc17:07
jacekowskileft and right17:07
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DocScrutinizeryeah, sensing is via mic as well17:08
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jacekowskiwell, if left and right is working17:09
jacekowskithen wires are not swapped17:10
DocScrutinizerbut mic might have a short or break17:16
jacekowskican you verify that pin 117:17
jacekowskion plug17:17
DocScrutinizeractually it's also the contact which is most prone to problems, as receptacles often use a switch on that one, with a 5th pin17:17
jacekowskiwhere 4 is gnd17:17
DocScrutinizernah, I can't. No idea about your plug or receptacle build17:17
jacekowskion headset17:18
jacekowskii can do it myself17:18
dangergrrli have a +1415 sipgate17:18
DocScrutinizeron plug, from tip to sleeve: L, R, mic, GND17:18
dangergrrlbut google has me at 7204 32768 117:18
jacekowskiand 250k on MIC17:19
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: you might want to not spread those details in open channel17:19
jacekowski33.2 on L and R17:19
dangergrrlit was the lowest information number they offered17:19
dangergrrldocscrutinizer youy may call that anytime even video if possible17:20
dangergrrli promise to be ugly as usual17:20
dangergrrli still have the power of 217:21
dangergrrlnhot as good as 72917:21
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: check with stock N900 hs, and press button -> should short mic to gnd17:21
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i've lost it17:21
DocScrutinizerplug in a 3-pin headphone, same effect17:22
dangergrrldo the french think the internet is american?17:22
ZogG[ebuild     U  ] x11-libs/gtk+-3.0.7 [3.0.6]17:22
dangergrrlit is not17:22
ZogGdangergrrl internet is soviet17:23
dangergrrlwell i have met stephen tweedie17:23
dangergrrlbut not remy card17:23
dangergrrli am soviet17:23
ZogGno you are not17:23
ZogGnot all onia is soviet but all soviet is onia17:24
ZogGcommrade dangergrrl17:24
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: hmm17:24
dangergrrlso i can't type cyrls bullshit17:24
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's working now17:24
ZogGi'm soviet — ftw!!!17:25
dangergrrli am alive and communist17:25
DocScrutinizerthis proves you're NOT soviet17:25
dangergrrland i want a fag17:25
ZogGsoviets are soviets and not communists but communists are soviets17:26
ZogGit's too complicated for you17:26
khorben_communists are a sbu-set of soviets?17:26
dangergrrlyou know if you play the communist manifesto backwards you go to heaven17:26
ZogGdangergrrl, КГБ за тобой выехало, разговор окончен!17:27
dangergrrli can not m ake sounds to those letters17:27
dangergrrlit is what m ade me not defect17:27
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dangergrrlbut i believe in freedom17:28
dangergrrland that means freedom to copy17:28
ZogGфтв г фку 12 кшпре,17:29
ZogGand you are 12 right?17:29
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: please probe all three lines L R mic when pressing a button (N95). I guess LR are identical or only one used. So you can probe the used one plus mic in a 2chan scope17:29
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dangergrrlu r too geeky17:30
* joga enjoys reading geeky stuff here17:30
DocScrutinizertimebase range 100ms...0.1ms/sweep17:30
dangergrrli just wanted to lust over your german accent17:30
jogawish I had a german accent17:30
dangergrrlnot like my bike will cross oceans17:30
jacekowskii have it17:30
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I need the timing and levels17:30
dangergrrli need a sip number17:31
dangergrrlmine is 720 690 701617:32
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dangergrrli want anonymous to call17:33
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that sort of stuff17:35
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yeeha, that's starting to become a kickoff17:36
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: is that mic?17:37
DocScrutinizercould you get L+R on a parallel 2nd chan?17:37
jacekowskinot sure why i can hear it in L17:37
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it looks like all communication is done using that single channel17:37
dangergrrlit says i may not caal u17:38
DocScrutinizeranyway check if there's *any* decent signal on LR, or it's really just noise, please17:38
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: nothing there17:38
dangergrrlwe had a linux fest here yesterday17:39
dangergrrli may have a ti proroboard17:39
DocScrutinizergreat, so now we need to separate pull-to-GND by N95 from pull-2-gnd by hs17:39
DocScrutinizereasiest way: have a 10R on mic line, and probe both ends with 2 sync chan17:40
jacekowskidifferent voltage lefels17:40
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: first pull to gnd is from headset, next block is from phone next from hs and next from phone17:41
jacekowskithe one from phone is slightly highe17:41
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i can send you csv file with waveform17:41
DocScrutinizerhmm, I see17:41
DocScrutinizeris it zoomable17:41
dangergrrlyou expect my approval17:42
jacekowskipsdata is17:42
jacekowskiif you get that17:42
jacekowskiit can open it17:42
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: sorry, you lost me, and everybody else here I guess17:42
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: duh, looks like redmond dongled sw17:43
jacekowskiit's not dongled17:44
jacekowskibut it's windows17:44
jacekowskii can send you csv file17:44
DocScrutinizeryeah that's what I meant17:44
DocScrutinizerI'd prefer a html like first one, just more spreaded so you can tell apart the single ditches17:44
jacekowskido you have oo.o17:45
jacekowskior msoffice17:45
DocScrutinizeractually read their duration and timing17:45
jacekowskithen csv will do17:45
DocScrutinizerif it's accurate enough17:45
jacekowskiit is17:46
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: please doublecheck the burst from hs isn't clocked by single pulses from device17:46
jacekowskii checked17:47
DocScrutinizerok :-D17:47
DocScrutinizeryou're a smart guy17:47
DocScrutinizera pleasure to cooperate17:47
jacekowskiit looks like it may be just uart17:48
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DocScrutinizeryup. I see a 18 duration coded bits during 10ms17:49
DocScrutinizerlong low = 1, short=017:49
DocScrutinizersth along that line17:49
DocScrutinizerI'd need a more sharp picture17:49
DocScrutinizeror csv17:50
DocScrutinizerI need the first burst from phone exactly, to know how to start the session, all that follows is RE'able on N90017:51
DocScrutinizerprobably watchin plugin negotiation would help as well17:52
jacekowskione file per waveform17:53
jacekowski+ other stuff17:53
jacekowskiso 3*3 are interesting17:53
jacekowski9 in total17:53
jacekowskiother can be ignored17:53
jacekowskiit's pushing button, releasing17:53
DocScrutinizerthnaks a lot17:53
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jacekowskiand like a second later after any event there is short burst that means something17:54
jacekowskibut i'm not sure what17:54
DocScrutinizergood night?17:54
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alteregof'ing love ruby :)17:55[:to_s, :capitalize]).join(', ')17:55
alteregoBeing able to extend base classes is p. awesome.17:56
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: now we only need to switch on micbias *rapidly* (and in a reasonable manner ;-D), and read out "button-pressed" detector fast enough to reliably sample up to 2000Bd18:01
jacekowskiburst on plug in is too long for me to read18:02
jacekowskiit's 100ms long18:03
* ShadowJK sometimes gets plug-in burst in ears18:04
alterego"tag fags"18:04
alteregoStill makes me laugh18:04
jacekowskihmm, i could read it18:05
jacekowskibut with different software18:05
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MohammadAGgod mafw is messed up for radio18:07
MohammadAGTITLE = artist + album apparently18:08
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: seems like shortest pulses are in the range of 0.1ms18:09
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DocScrutinizerso oversampling at 20ks/s should do18:10
DocScrutinizerwe'd probably need a kernel driver that directly reads the GPIO connected to the comparators18:11
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yeah, he's the hero of the day, isn't he?18:11
jacekowskithat negotiation on plug in may not be important18:12
jacekowskias long as phone responds something18:12
jacekowskiheadset will send buttons18:12
DocScrutinizerI think we can revamp the OMHDQ driver for that18:13
MohammadAGand that's radio playback sorted in the OMP, finally18:13
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yeah. As mentioned before, that obscure driver source for the MCU based hs controller suggested it is 'readout of config storage'18:14
MohammadAG552.0k <-- not too bad18:15
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: so I guess all that is happening at plugin is hs telling "I'm ACME-556, and I have: mic, stereo headphones, and the buttons: vol+, vol-, pause-play, call, ..."18:17
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DocScrutinizerfirst of all I need to make sense of the binary code18:18
jacekowskino need18:18
jacekowskijust compare known waveforms with recieved18:18
DocScrutinizernot really, we could just pattern-match18:18
DocScrutinizerbut ugly :-)18:18
jacekowskior we can ask nokia18:19
trxanyone controled a parallel port on n900?18:19
DocScrutinizererr huh?18:19
trx(i've got usb to parallel)18:19
jacekowskithere is no parellal port on n90018:19
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trxi need to use ioperm from libc to allow my app to use the ports18:20
trxbut i dont know how to write to them :/18:20
DocScrutinizerwell, where's the problem? shouldn't those come with driver source usually?18:20
trxit has a driver, i get a /lp018:20
trxthats cool18:20
jacekowskitrx: then google will help you18:21
pupnikn900 is missing a centronics port18:21
trxjacekowski yeah, i just wanted to check if anyone here worked with it..18:21
DocScrutinizertrx: I assume you had a flawlessly working hostmode?18:21
trxyeah :)18:21
trxty for that btw18:21
DocScrutinizerthank you for exploiting it18:22
trxyw :)18:22
trxim about to make a "robot car"18:22
trxthe n900 will control the steppers18:22
alteregoAnyone got N900 working with mindstorm?18:23
ShadowJKioperm is only relevant for controlling a pc parallell port hooked up to ISA18:23
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: (<jacekowski> or we can ask nokia [about the binary codes transfered on MuBu-hs]) could you help with that one?18:24
ShadowJKtrx, has anyone ever used a usb parallell port to do this?18:25
trxnot that i know of18:25
trx(on arm)18:25
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ShadowJKwell on anything18:25
DocScrutinizersomebody did, on Freerunner :-D18:25
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trxi did it on my pc18:26
DocScrutinizernot exactly steppers, but a 16 relay card18:26
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trxrelays, steppers, leds18:26
trxvia ULN280318:26
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trxsteppers via L297 -> L29818:27
* DocScrutinizer smiles and says "cheers, laters..."18:27
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trxi can write a stream to /dev/lp018:30
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trxgoogle magic :)18:30
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GAN900How the hell does a dialer application which makes you miss calls half the time placing the red button in the green spot pass QA?!18:38
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SpeedEvilBecause it conforms to the UI standards.18:42
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halinI have apache ant in my File Manager, so I set export ANT_HOME=/MyDocs/apache-ant. But when I set the path as export PATH=${PATH}:${ANT_HOME}/bin18:48
halinit says ANT_HOME not found18:48
halinAm I doing some thing wrong18:51
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halinI am doing this on an N90019:00
halinbut I don't if I have set ANT_HOME correctly19:01
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LODhey *19:02
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CorsacRST38h: Reject, host not found (in response to ehlo command)19:23
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LODjust to say ;) Im a happy user of Maemo with my N900 ; it seems M$ has changed something for Messenger and I can't log in with Pecan ; Pidgin works but I prefer Telepathy ; Im calling for a solution, please19:26
MohammadAGhmm, noticed that as well19:26
SpeedEvilWhen did rthe change occur?19:26
MohammadAGyesterday or today19:26
MohammadAGthis weekend19:26
LOD2 or 3 days ago19:26
MohammadAGshould be on pecan's bugtracker I think19:28
LODI was on pecan irc they know but no more reactions19:28
LODofcourse I imagine they need time19:29
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MohammadAGmeh, MSN works on iOS19:31
RST38hDo notice that Nokia has just updated MS Messenger app for Symbian^3 phones19:31
MohammadAGoh actually, I do remember there was an update on iOS too19:32
MohammadAGit was more than 3 days ago19:32
LODand Nokia is a M$ partner but Windows and Linux :/19:33
LODyes mayba 4 now19:33
MohammadAGtelepathy-pecan isn't by Nokia19:33
MohammadAGthere should be a fix soon, it's used on other platforms19:34
LODFelipe is a Nokia employed no ?19:34
MohammadAGnot sure, think so19:34
LODFelipe is Pecan author I think19:34
MohammadAGfelipe`, ping19:34
MohammadAGoh, nvm, wrong person19:35
MohammadAG~seen felipec19:35
infobotfelipec <~felipec@nat/nokia/x-gbhqdwkayfjabany> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 17d 23h 48m 57s ago, saying: 'qgil: no, I mean the tools... but apparently only Director was killed'.19:35
LODno problem :)19:35
LODyes it is him I think19:36
MohammadAGbest thing to do would be to watch the bug report19:38
MohammadAGif there isn't one, open a new bug19:38
MohammadAG(not on
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LODplease do that, I imagine I need to register... :s19:39
MohammadAGI don't know the bugtracker :P19:39
LODauthor Felipe Contreras19:39
LODoh there is gmail email19:40
LODI will email him and wait and see ; bye * oh Im an experimented Blender user, so if you need help a day or anther, ring me on #blender-fr (it is french channel but we will find solution to speak ;)19:43
LODBlender, I mean the 3D software ;)19:43
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njainhey what is the signature of CallStatus() on\stance interace??20:05
njainno help from google20:05
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njain MohammadAG: hey??20:10
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timeless_w7ipgan900: hey, do you know if True Lies's Tango is a reference to Never Say Never Again's?20:24
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GAN900timeless_w7ip, I have absolutely no context for that. :P20:37
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pupnikyou guys @ nokia did a good job with SDL on maemo5 thank you21:18
pupnikmany annoyances are fixed from the n810 days21:19
pupniksaves pupnik time21:19
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halinI have ant in my File Manger (N900). I set the ant home as: export ANT_HOME=/home/user/MyDocs/apache-ant-1.8.2. But when I use: export PATH=${PATH}:${ANT_HOME}/bin, it says: ANT_HOME not found, PATH not found21:23
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halinIs this needs to be handled differently for N90021:24
halinthan in linux21:24
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pupnik   fixed the HP/Mana/Grace sdl draw errors :D21:32
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pupnikhappy happy21:33
halinI have even checked that MyDocs contains apache-ant-1.8.221:33
halinbut still XTerminal connot find it21:34
SpeedEvilyou cannot run programs on MyDocs.21:34
SpeedEvil<ydocs is a FAT filesysrtem, and does not support rexecutable files21:34
halinSpeedEvil: right now I am just setting the path21:34
halinand PATH21:34
halinit is not able to proceed even there21:35
Sc0rpiusdid you actually read what SpeedEvil said?21:35
Sc0rpiusyou cannot have ant under MyDocs21:35
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halinSc0rpius: ok, so I should firs copy it to /home/user and then run it ?21:36
JaffaAnyone got anything interesting for this week?21:36
Sc0rpiusthat's what I would od21:36
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halinSc0rpius: when I do mv /home/user/MyDocs/apache-ant-1.8.2 to /home/user it says "Operation not permitted"21:44
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halinls in Xterminal shows this: MyDocs  apache-ant-1.8.221:46
halinBut stilll I get the same error that ANT_HOME not found21:48
halinSc0rpius: Am I doing something now ?21:49
halinSc0rpius: Am I doing something wrong now ?21:49
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halinSc0rpius: SpeedEvil Can I also not run executables from /user/home21:55
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: faintly. Brilliant Mr. jacekowski  checked serial protocol of multibutton headsets for DocScrutinizer, so we got a clue now how to finally support those on N900. Nevertheless info from Nokia regarding specific format/codes on that interface much appreciated and asked for22:02
DocScrutinizerdunno if that's a mini news or just <yawn>22:03
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Ta. Any appropriate URL?22:05
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DocScrutinizer ff22:07
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, so it just uses GND?22:11
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sorry, didn't get that22:11
MohammadAGgrounding voltage22:11
DocScrutinizeryes, it's a wire with a pullup R, plus two IO that swtich between pulling down the wire to GND for sending and listening to voltage for RX22:12
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memouserhi people, good nights22:13
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memouseri have one question, when use micro browser and store flash cache with tempy, in large videos more of 15 minuts the browser fail22:14
memousercan i change cache for more large videos ?22:14
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: there's also some thread about pushbutton on hs to skip to next track on mediaplayer, but I can't find it. Some of the later posts there by me are to that topic as well22:17
DocScrutinizerthread on tmo :-)22:17
MohammadAGsec, I have that somewhere22:18
MohammadAGit's something about jack bias22:18
MohammadAGwhatever that is22:18
MohammadAGfound it22:19
SpeedEviljack bias is the voltage that is applied to the headset hack to make it able to heatr stuff on hte mic22:24
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SpeedEvilAnd as a side-effect - be able to report button presses.22:24
GAN900Jaffa, time to start soapboxing for padding?22:25
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joejoehi, i have broken touch screen on my n900. It is possible to make backup from terminal?22:35
DocScrutinizerJaffa: and
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: thanks22:38
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joejoeit is possible to perform backup only from command line?22:42
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DocScrutinizerjoejoe: I think yes, it should. I seem to recall I knew how to do it (some dbus call, or parameters on calling backup app as cmd) as I pondered to do backups automatically via cronjob aka alarmed. Alas I have to confess I never got to really set up things like that and I forgot about details23:01
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DocScrutinizers/like that/that way/23:02
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: joejoe: I think yes, it should. I seem to recall I knew how to do it (some dbus call, or parameters on calling backup app as cmd) as I pondered to do backups automatically via cronjob aka alarmed. Alas I have to confess I never got to really set up things...23:02
N900n00byyhi i think i did something wrong. my whole menu looks fu**ed up... i see stuff like stab_me_bt where there was ocne just bluetooth connection. what happend ?23:02
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VeggenN900noobyy: did you deinstall som translations?23:04
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n900n00byysorry, had to reconect23:15
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DocScrutinizeryou messed up (moved/deleted/uninstalled) some localization files23:17
DocScrutinizeror the LOCALE/LANG setting itself23:17
DocScrutinizerfirst you might try to select another language in settings23:18
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DocScrutinizerthen, if that doesn't help, you probably want to ask timeless_wp7 how to fix the messed up .po files23:19
n900n00byythx DocScrutinizer, but this did not help :( where should be the locale/lang folder ?23:22
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n900n00byylol k, this folder does not exits anymore. dont know why.23:24
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DocScrutinizerso you're in trouble23:25
DocScrutinizerI suggest flashing rootfs23:25
n900n00byydamn, looks like23:26
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: bad news23:26
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's not going to work23:26
DocScrutinizerthnen restore all apps from backup app23:26
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: Vbias on N900 is only 2-2.5V23:26
jacekowskinot 3.3 as on n9523:26
jacekowski2.5 with nothing connected23:26
DocScrutinizerand how much does that sh*t need?23:26
jacekowski2V on load23:26
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: N95 provides 3.323:27
DocScrutinizerI'll compare N95 and N900 circuit around micbias23:27
MohammadAGjacekowski, can  you check a different device?23:27
jacekowskii looked at it incorrectl23:28
DocScrutinizera lot of micbias sources have selectable / configurable voltage23:28
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jacekowskiit is 2.5V on n9523:28
MohammadAGone question though, the N95 was the first device with TV-out, you sure it's for the buttons and not that?23:29
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DocScrutinizerbut 3.3V would be quite a bit too hig for that OMFG specs23:29
jacekowskii think that 3.3V i had came from my pc micbias23:29
jacekowskithat i was measuring23:29
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: AV doesn't need DC23:29
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, what about its detection?23:30
MohammadAGor is that done with the 4th pin?23:30
jacekowskithat's a good question23:30
jacekowskihow is that done23:30
DocScrutinizerdetection is via mic as well, but that'S same thing - micbias23:31
jacekowskiMohammadAG: do you have a scope?23:31
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: have you looked at files i've sent you23:31
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and do you know that oo.o can do graphs as well23:31
SpeedEvilFor these frequencies - audio card line in would work OK23:31
jacekowskiit's square wave23:32
jacekowskiand sound card i bet has low pass filter23:32
DocScrutinizerwell, I always thought I sometimes heard a tiny click when I pressed button of mubu-hs plugged to N900. According to the diagrams it's a real thing23:32
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yes23:32
DocScrutinizerand yes23:32
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> detection is via mic as well, but that'S same thing - micbias <-- so doesn't it need VBUS?23:32
DocScrutinizeryou've seen my battery charge graph done in ooo?23:33
MohammadAGjacekowski, I'm assuming you mean an oscilloscope, if so, nope, I'm no EE, yet23:33
MohammadAGerr, voltage23:33
DocScrutinizerVBUS is a USB thing23:33
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: no23:33
MohammadAGsorry, got used to hostmode discussions when talking about voltage23:33
DocScrutinizeryes,it is using same micbias voltage that's supposed to be 2..2.8V via 2kR23:34
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jacekowskii have an idea23:34
jacekowskii'll play with my AWG tomorrow23:35
jacekowskiand maybe i can talk to it23:35
jacekowskiwith just that23:35
jacekowskiarbitrary waveform generator23:35
DocScrutinizerbut you'd probably want to duplicate the exact bit pattern that gets sent to hs by device to start session23:36
DocScrutinizerit's for sure not only a freq burst23:36
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DocScrutinizerit's a sort of cmd or at least sync byte23:36
jacekowskino need23:37
jacekowskiwhen i unplugged and plugged hs from my extension cable23:37
jacekowskiit talked to phone for a lot shorter period of time23:37
jacekowskithan when i plugged it in and out of phone23:37
jacekowskiso it looks like hs just expects any valid communication23:38
DocScrutinizerI meant that initial 8bit(?) burst sent from device to hs after hs said "click"23:38
DocScrutinizerthe burst from ~5..~10 on time in
DocScrutinizeryou need to duplicate that23:40
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DocScrutinizerI guess23:40
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DocScrutinizerthat's why I asked if you think it's exact enough in your diagrams so I can "decode"23:40
DocScrutinizera new diagram with a time base 10 times faster would help a lot23:41
yourselfI love the N90023:41
DocScrutinizerjust showing this initial burst, and maybe the leading click23:41
DocScrutinizeralso comparing first dev-orig burst and hs-answer with second one would be really interesting23:42
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jacekowskiuse civilised format23:44
jacekowskidoc or docs23:44
jacekowskinot something i can't open23:44
DocScrutinizerthat's a diagram in ooo23:44
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kwtmHi. Need help with usb networking. The wiki on is unclear: it says "You can also add the following lines to set the default route correctly "  Does this mean it's optional, or I NEED to add the following lines?  This is referring to "up route del default" and "up route add default gw"23:52
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BCMMkwtm: do you want to talk to the internet, or just to the machine on the other end of the cable?23:53
BCMMbtw, would you mind linking that wiki page?23:53
kwtmBCMM: Just the machine.  I plan to use fish:/ as a file transfer protocol.  (Also being able to ssh into the N900 would be nice when I'm not able to have both machines connect to the same router.)23:53
BCMMi haven't had it set up nicely since i last flashed23:53
DocScrutinizerdepends if some other mechanism did the route setup for you previously. Just check route with `route`, and add the route as suggested if it's not yet there23:54
kwtmI guess an easy ... ah, thanks DocScrutinizer23:54
BCMMkwtm: you don't need the route then23:54
BCMMkwtm: btw, sftp:// should perform better23:54
BCMM(provided you've got an openssh server. won't work with dropbear.)23:54
kwtmBCMM: I've had bad luck with sftp://, and now all my scripts have standardized on fish://23:55
BCMMusing what software, btw?23:55
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Ok, $(route) is blank.  So I guess I need to add the route.  But right now "ifconfig usb0" (as root) does not even show an IP address even though it says "RUNNING".  Is this a problem or will the "route" add in the IP address?23:56
kwtmBCMM: You mean to ssh?  Well, commandline (OpenSSH), rsync -e ssh, KDE Kparts, etc.23:56
BCMMkwtm: i mean, what fish client23:56
BCMMah, kioslaves23:56
kwtmAlso, what's the difference between "sudo gainroot" and "root"?23:57
DocScrutinizerno, you need to have proper IP addr for NIC prior to setting up route23:57
BCMM(kparts aren't the bits that handle the transfer protocols)23:57
kwtmBCMM: Well, there's also mc (midnight commander)23:57
BCMMkwtm: iirc, they've fixed the sftp:// ioslave in the next version of kde23:57
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Yeah, how does that work?  Does my laptop need to have a DHCP server?  I see the default is for the N900 and .14 for the laptop, but does the laptop know that?23:57
DocScrutinizersftp:// works just fine here (not tested via USB but that shouldn't matter)23:58
kwtmBCMM: I'm afraid I haven't placed much faith in "the next version of KDE" ... but anyway, fish:// seems to be a good common denominator and all my scripts from KDE3 are using fish.23:58
DocScrutinizerno, your desktop doesn't know that magically23:58
kwtm(note: I'm using KDE4 ... but only have time to migrate what I need.)23:58
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DocScrutinizeryou should config the NIC with ifconfig23:59
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Are you referring to my laptop or the N900?  ("you should config the NIC with ifconfig")23:59
DocScrutinizerbtw on your PC you don't need a route set for the USB nic, unless you want to access internet via N900 modem23:59
kwtmI mean, my laptop is already assigned a (different , I might add) IP address already.23:59

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