IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-02-25

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* SpeedEvil wishes there was acompressor option on the speakers00:01
toresbepupnik: it's a remote-control-N900-by-SMS app.00:02
pupniktoresbe: COOL00:03
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toresbeIt's fairly neat, yes. But I'd like to be able to suppress the SMSes from making it to the UI.00:04
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javispedrowhy does the Dell configurator tell me that "BIOS: Internal Bluetooth Set To Enabled" costs 5€?00:06
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keriobecause you still haven't uninstalled it00:08
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javispedroI mean their web shop one00:08
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pupniktoresbe: that's a must-have (surpressed to UI)00:08
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pupniktoresbe: if one's n900 gets stolen and one wants to control it, it should be private00:09
javispedro(I'm _buying_ a PC and they're asking me 5€ to do stuff like "Enable Internal Bluetooth in BIOS", 5€ to "BIOS: Boot First Device set to Hard Drive"00:09
javispedro, etc)00:09
* javispedro hopes this is some mistranslation00:10
SpeedEvilIf you want to set the BIOS in a non-standard way - you have to pay for it00:10
SpeedEvilIf you're happy with it as it ships normally, you can leave it00:10
lcukjavispedro, that would presumably require opening the box, powering it up, sitting there pressing buttons etc00:10
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* javispedro finds plenty of alternative cheaper ways to do that... but hey...00:11
chxjavispedro: YOU can00:11
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chxjavispedro: i bet there are a number of Dell customers (they would be the typical Dell customers) who have no idea.00:11
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* javispedro sighs00:12
javispedroand for a few minutes I was thinking that mean I wouldn't have the option to turn Bluetooth on by myself :P00:12
chxit could mean that too yeah00:13
BCMMjavispedro: it'll come with a coin slot, and if you bring a Bluetooth device near it, the screen will flash "Insert Coin."00:13
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* javispedro thinks what BCMM says will come true in the not-so-far future00:15
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SpeedEvil Software upgradable scope javispedro00:16
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: except you're using paypal, not a coin slot00:32
pupnik   check it out!   n900 speaker opened!00:33
DocScrutinizerM$ is actively pushing that model - lease services (like MS-word) by the minute, or by the line of text00:33
LjLnice camera you've got00:33
BCMMpupnik: which speaker is that? earphone or stereo?00:33
BCMMwow, it's tiny00:33
DocScrutinizerpupnik: you're insane - you killed it00:34
BCMMi mean, those are pretty loud00:34
pupnikDocScrutinizer: they were 'dead' already00:35
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly if that nice sharp macro has enough minutiae to make a valid fake fingerprint of pupnik00:35
lcukawesome engineering though in such tiny things :)00:35
lcukDocScrutinizer, it should be lol00:35
jacekowskijavispedro: that sort of thing happens now00:35
jacekowskijavispedro: you buy hardware00:35
jacekowskijavispedro: like FC switches00:36
jacekowskijavispedro: and it has 16 ports00:36
jacekowskibut only 8 are working00:36
jacekowskiyou buy code from brocade or whoever manufactured that switch00:36
jacekowskitype it in00:36
BCMMpupnik: so did you blow it up by playing with mixer settings?00:36
jacekowskiand you have 16 port switch00:36
javispedrowell, it's still missing the coin slot =)00:36
BCMMDocScrutinizer: heh, i like the way you think...00:36
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BCMMjavispedro: well, at least they're honest about it, unlike artificial processor binning00:37
BCMMjacekowski, mishighlighted00:37
pupnikBCMM: blew it up playing lectures all day without XPROT speaker protection00:37
BCMMjavispedro/javispedro conversations always confuse me00:38
javispedroBCMM: hey, I do not talk alone THAT often.00:38
pupnikbut apparently the voice coil is still intact, so perhaps simply heating or something jarred it00:38
BCMMjavispedro: hah, can't believe i did that...00:38
BCMMtold you it was confusing00:38
BCMMpupnik: XPROT?00:38
luke-jrhow can I reload ~/.rtcomm-accounts/accounts.cfg ?00:39
BCMMi'm curious because i want to know if the rumour that you can blow the speakers using only alsamixer is true00:39
* DocScrutinizer sneaks by the hot punch an throws 200 trips in00:39
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BCMMwhich in turn is because i want to play with alsamixer in order to get sound to come out through the earphone00:40
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BCMMsince one might occasionally want to listen to internet radio or something like that00:40
DocScrutinizerBCMM: believe me, it is00:40
pupniki don't see why they 'broke - the suspension is still ok, the coil is still intact00:41
BCMMpupnik: got a multimeter?00:41
javispedroThe only time I had to get a N900 repaired so far is because a broken left speaker00:41
pupnikmaybe the insulation on the coil wire broke and now the coil shorts00:41
BCMMwell, check its resistance i guess...00:42
DocScrutinizermeh, I regret I haven't ordered 3 pairs of spare speakers with that bare pcb00:42
BCMMprobably either burned out a wire, or, like you said, burned out insulation00:42
pupnikwell the wire looked fine00:42
DocScrutinizer...or simply molten glue and coil got outa shape00:43
DocScrutinizers/glue/glue or plastic-support/.00:43
BCMMhmmm, is it silent, or does it sound all wrong?00:44
DocScrutinizerwires rarely melt on long term 200% overdrive. They blowfuse on surges, like applying 24V from a low-Z battery00:44
DocScrutinizerlook, plasic melting @200°C, copper malting when? 800°?00:45
pupnikmaybe the amplifier on the n900 board is what's dead00:47
* pupnik reassembled speaker 00:48
BCMMreally, check with a multimeter...00:48
pupnikwhat should i see?00:48
DocScrutinizerpupnik: unlikely00:48
DocScrutinizerpupnik: 8 ohms +/-00:49
DocScrutinizerstill won't tell you anything00:49
DocScrutinizerget those:
DocScrutinizerpupnik: if you hadn't killed them yet, I'd suggest you use an empty 1.5V battery and connect it to the speakers contact springs to see if it clicks00:50
BCMMalso, not 0-ish or infinity...00:50
BCMM(for shorted insulation and burned-out wire, respectively)00:51
DocScrutinizerpupnik: reassembling those won't work, you killed them as you can't place the coil concentric to the magnet00:51
DocScrutinizerBCMM: for shorted isolation there's just one wind shorted enough to kill it for AC00:52
DocScrutinizerand AC is what you use on speakers, usually00:52
pupnikDocScrutinizer: right, i figured -- btw those replacements are better than the original i hope..
lcukpupnik, do the n900 speakers connect in same way as n810?00:53
pupniki haven't opened n81000:53
lcukon the n810 there are little springy things00:53
DocScrutinizermeh, what makes you think they fit?00:53
lcukthat the speakers just press against00:53
pupnikthose look exactly the same DocScrutinizer00:54
pupnikbut maybe the dimensions are different00:54
DocScrutinizeryou're welcome to test00:54
lcukpupnik, note that people take pictures with toy cars "looking" exactly like real cars on the street!00:54
DocScrutinizerFSCKFSCKFSCK also down00:55
BCMMpupnik: aww, that's cute; somebody thinks repetition is an SEO strategy00:55
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GeneralAntillesI hate HDMI00:56
DocScrutinizerI hate rootkits for linux boxes00:57
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javispedroWhat I hate most about HDMI is that most monitors will usually think they are being fed input from a TV-thing instead of a PC and either overscan or report they support 480p and/or 1080p only00:57
javispedroDocScrutinizer: by the way, I guess you saw already ? ;)00:57
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DocScrutinizeroh cool, timeout on IRC again?00:58
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: where did you get a bare N900 PCB?00:58
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pupnik  wow00:58
DocScrutinizerLOL ROTFL on nokiaplanq00:59
DocScrutinizerpupnik: still waiting for delivery00:59
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: AWESOME :-D01:03
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chxpupnik: and how on earth do you use that??? resolder the chips?????01:05
SpeedEvilYou don't.01:05
SpeedEvilIt's practically useless01:05
SpeedEvilThe chances of resoldering on the chips - with a 99.5% good solder-joint rate is about 10%01:06
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javispedroBrand new N900-coloured N810 WiMax edition!01:08
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pupnikheh... wrong pic01:09
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BCMMthat whole site has a really, really spammy feel01:10
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: so you're working for OpenMokia now!!01:11
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Psianyone tried a 32GB micro sd in their n900 yet?01:12
MegaltariakI have one and it works well01:13
Psinice. what brand01:13
lcukMegaltariak, neat, did you get it out of necessaity or just because you wanted one?01:14
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* lcuk has about 3gb left on his n900 so thinking about it01:14
BCMM gets it surprisingly wrong01:14
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Psii dont want to wear out the build in flash so moving commonly used/rewritten stuff to microsd is a good idea01:14
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nid0BCMM google image search for nokia phones tends to be quite horribly wrong across the board01:15
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BCMMalso, i think that incorrect ownta pic was nabbed from google image search without checking...01:15
pupnikcan anyone take-apart a n810 and show us the speakers in it?01:16
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nid0the pic I find really astonishing is like 5th searching for the e701:16
DocScrutinizerpupnik: I did, alas is down aTM01:16
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MegaltariakI repartitionned my N900 with 27go /home/ and 2go MyDocs for testing stuff and apps but I still wanted to have space for multimedia/usb storage, so I buyed one.01:16
nid0theyve somehow photoshopped a cobbled together mashup of the e7, the n9 prototype, and the n900 all in one01:17
lcukpupnik, doc has an n810 disassembly guide but site is afk atm01:17
pupnikDocScrutinizer: so they're very different size than n900 speakers, correct?01:17
* lcuk is slow tonight01:18
DocScrutinizernot afaik01:18
DocScrutinizerlemme check local pics01:18
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pupnikthe volume on n810 was much better and i wonder why01:19
luke-jrIf anyone ever wants to change default phone account:
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: much bigger01:20
DocScrutinizerround about twice the size01:21
pupnikty luke-jr01:23
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luke-jrpupnik: doesn't work with Babyphone ☹01:24
pupnikbut what does it mean?01:24
luke-jrpupnik: it means you can have Phone use a SIP account by default :p01:25
pupnikoh duh - ty01:25
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DocScrutinizerwow, google cache loading since 3 min, at 49%01:27
pupniksame here at about 0% of pics done01:27
* DocScrutinizer YAWNS01:28
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: ^^^01:33
alteregoIs there an app that can talk at to another handset via bluetooth?01:34
alteregoI kinda want to read contacts and messages from another phone, using AT ..01:34
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alteregoMight have to write it myself I guess.01:34
pupnikDocScrutinizer: maybe with a dremel i could make space for those :D01:34
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: I suggest injecting magnetic fluid to the air gap between coil and magnet of the original ones01:38
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DocScrutinizerplus I want royalties of 1.87USD per device for that improvement, for stealing that idea form magnastat and applying it to mobile phone transducers01:40
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: fluid doesn't compress like a gas :/01:43
DocScrutinizeryou mustn't flood the whole speaker with it, just let is settle between magnet and coil, in that 0.1mm air gap01:44
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DocScrutinizerair between speaker dome and magnet should vent via a hole in magnet usually01:45
pupnikdid i mention i got some beautiful planar drivers made in germany - from a reseller in USA?01:46
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DocScrutinizeryeah, or place some piezo on that back cover plastic and use the whole area as a surface planaer speaker ;-)01:47
pupnikBohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR01:48
DocScrutinizerused with kickstand that should give way better bass01:48
DocScrutinizersitting on desk flat it will make your cam lens come off01:49
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DocScrutinizerFSCK, laf 18s, 32s, WTF is wrong with freenode today?01:50
luke-jrhow do I turn off the stupid kb led flashing in R&D mode again?01:50
* luke-jr lost all his changes with PR1.301:50
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DocScrutinizerthere's some sysnode you need echo 0>foo01:51
DocScrutinizernfc what's been the name01:51
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DocScrutinizerlag 5s01:52
DocScrutinizershiiiiit01:52 in Rennes, FR, EU.01:52
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Venemowhen trying to SSH to the N900, I get "Error: Host key verification failed Please select another viewer and try again."02:00
Venemowft is this?02:00
pupnik someone is hacking you02:02
pupnikor the N900 got a different IP addresss02:02
Venemono, I reflashed it02:03
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* pupnik doesn't know the proper precise answer02:04
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: there's a config file somewhere02:04
* luke-jr diffs old and new /etc02:05
DocScrutinizerno config file, it's done somewhere in rcs-early or sth02:05
DocScrutinizerthat file isn't in /etc ;-)02:05
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: no, I am SURE there is a config file02:06
pupniki wish that site would give the dimensions for those speakers02:07
Venemosolution was to edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts on my laptop02:07
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DocScrutinizerthey sell chips like potato chips02:08
DocScrutinizerno clue02:08
Venemonah, bye-bye guys02:08
DocScrutinizerVenemo: ??02:08
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: ?? ??02:08
VenemoDocScrutinizer: [01:00] <Venemo> when trying to SSH to the N900, I get "Error: Host key verification failed Please select another viewer and try again." ---> [01:07] <Venemo> solution was to edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts on my laptop02:09
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@
VenemoDocScrutinizer: that's a hack instead of a proper solution, isn't it02:11
DocScrutinizerknown issue, that friggin known-hosts is supposed to stop MITM attacks, but usually just throws stick at your feet02:11
Venemookay, thanks DocScrutinizer :)02:11
Venemoanyway, I should be sleeping02:12
Venemoso good night02:12
DocScrutinizerit's meant for a internet where's no dynamic IPs02:12
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: sleep_ind controls the flashing02:13
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: exactly, and sleep_ind actually is a GPIO02:24
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DocScrutinizerand you can control it via some /sys node02:24
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pupnikintel/apple "thunderbolt" connector promises 10 Gbps connections (usb 2.0 = 480 Mbps)02:25
keriousb always sucked02:26
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I prefer to use config :>P02:26
DocScrutinizerand afair somewhere in init process, probably in rcS_early or what it's called, I've seen some bootmode cmdline tool asking if R&D is set and doing an according echo 0/1 >/sys/foo02:27
luke-jrI probably found this config file by looking at that init process :p02:30
luke-jrand seeing that it checks the config02:30
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aaphow do i change ovi map to mappero? to auto launch from address book.03:10
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aapis there a prefered application setup config file?03:13
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luke-jrPR1.3 doesn't seem to work with T-Mobile04:52
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nox-it does in germany if thats of any help...04:57
nox-(i suppose not)04:57
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DocScrutinizerhow the F is PR1.3 going to break compatibility with a single carrier?05:33
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DocScrutinizeralso don't you think it's strange there's not been a single report like that I heard of, since errr - when was it PR1.3 was published?05:34
DocScrutinizerif an update would render a quarter of the devices in a large area (like USA) inoperable, that for sure would make some more noise05:36
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jonwilanyone in the US using a N900 is either going to be using t-mobile or using AT&T GSM05:39
jonwilsince AFAIK the N900 doesn't do AT&T 3G05:39
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RobbieThe1stHello guys05:59
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RobbieThe1stSo... I never thought I'd ever be asking this, but..: I'm looking for a cheapish Android phone that's easily rooted and works on the T-mobile network. Used is acceptable, hardware keyboard required. Any suggestions?06:00
RobbieThe1st(Mind, not for me - I'm keeping my N900)06:01
bmidgley_that is heresy06:01
RobbieThe1stYea yea... I know. :( Hopefully, though, a rooted android phone won't be -too- bad - I'm intending to give it to my mom so she can check emails and such on-the-go.06:03
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bmidgley_maybe webos will be the best community supported hackable going forward06:04
jonwilIf it wasnt for the hw keyboard requirement I would suggest the Nexus One06:04
jonwilor the Nexus S06:04
Dassu... My dad bought a freaking Nokia 5230 when I told him that it would be cool if he had a phone with wlan so I could call him directly by skype....06:04
DassuNeedless to say that phone doesn't' have a wlan06:05
bmidgley_my main phone is android and it bugs me to no end... pathetic ui06:05
jonwilall the Android phones that work with t-mobile and have hw keyboard cant be rooted easily06:05
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DocScrutinizeralso what's the use of roting for your mom?06:06
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bmidgley_webos or gasp, ios would be what I chose for grandma06:07
DocScrutinizerfsckng winmo606:07
DocScrutinizerkinda "looks like a computer" UI06:08
DocScrutinizerfor M$ tainted techno-ignorants06:09
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DocScrutinizerheh, I got a Samsung OMNIA here, almost unused. You can get it for... err... probably you get one cheaper next corner06:10
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DocScrutinizerdh, hw kbd. So you might be interested in my Eten GloFiish M800 - but that's a real collector's item ;-D06:16
Sc0rpiusby the way06:17
Sc0rpiusI just noticed the N8 has all 5 bands in UMTS06:17
Sc0rpiusthat's nice hardware, but terrible software06:17
DocScrutinizererrr, all 5 bands?06:17
Sc0rpiusin UMTS06:18
Sc0rpius3G Network HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1700 / 1900 / 210006:18
Sc0rpiusand it's quad band in GSM as expected06:19
Sc0rpiusthere should be a way to put Maemo in that06:19
DocScrutinizermeh, you're talking about that USA rubbish06:20
Sc0rpiuswhat exactly is rubbish? the phone? or the bands? hehe06:20
Sc0rpiusor the country?06:20
DocScrutinizerI really wonder how they can call that UMTS06:20
Sc0rpiuswhy not06:20
DocScrutinizer#2, mayber #306:21
bmidgley_I wrote a helper app that brings geolocation api to maemo, anyone interested in helping to polish it a bit06:21
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Sc0rpiusI'm not in the USA but at least in the same continent.  I get 3 Mbps with my phone in 3G, not bad06:21
DocScrutinizerUSA was idiotic enough to use GSM bands for UMTS06:22
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Sc0rpiusthen talk about Europe using 900 MHz for voice AND for 3G ?06:23
Sc0rpiusthat was worse!06:23
jonwilAustralia has a wierd mix of bands, we have 900MHz and 1800MHz for GSM across 3 networks06:24
jonwilplus we have one network using 850MHz UMTS and possibly also 2100MHz UMTS (not sure)06:24
jonwiland another network using 900/210006:24
Sc0rpiuswell lemme talk you about my ISP06:24
Sc0rpiushe started using GSM 900 as voice06:24
jonwiland a third network currently running 900/2100 and about to launch UMTS 0n 85006:24
Sc0rpiuswhen 3G came, the also installed 3G in 900 MHz, like European ISPs06:25
Sc0rpiusthen there's not enough spectrum, and had to move voice from 900 to 1800 MHz06:25
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Sc0rpiusbut there were phones 900 MHz only, they had to change those for free06:25
Sc0rpiusit was a total mess, it still is06:25
DocScrutinizer States06:25
* Sc0rpius clicks06:25
jonwilFind me a country where the allocation of spectrum for mobile telephony ISNT a nightmare06:25
jonwilEvery country has a mess of different spectrum06:26
Sc0rpiushehe that's true06:26
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jonwilnow we have one carrier launching LTE on IIRC 850MHz06:27
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DocScrutinizerthe digits are english ;-)06:31
DocScrutinizerthe ETLAs as well06:32
DocScrutinizerso at least in Germany we got UMTS uplink on 1900 (not same as GSM) and downlink 210006:35
Sc0rpiusoh that's nice06:35
DocScrutinizerno conflicts with GSM06:35
Sc0rpiusand why your phone works06:36
DocScrutinizerGSM here is at 900 and 180006:36
Sc0rpiusN900 is 900/210006:36
DocScrutinizerwhile USA is using 850 1900 and whatnot else, for whatever the particular carrier likes06:37
DocScrutinizersee mobileworldlive link above, even AT&T is using same freq for UMTS in USA and for GSM in Costa Rica06:39
DocScrutinizererr Puerto Rico06:39
ShadowJKSc0rpius, you imply 3g has no voice ;p06:39
DocScrutinizerI do? what makes you think that?06:40
* ShadowJK <3 umts 90006:40
Sc0rpiusI have UMTS 900 in my carrier06:40
Sc0rpiusand GSM was moved to 180006:40
Sc0rpiusbut it was initialliy at 90006:40
DocScrutinizerGSM is and stays at 90006:41
Sc0rpiusin your case06:41
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DocScrutinizerit's your carrier that invented some new rubbish, and calls that UMTS now06:41
Sc0rpiusbecause your carrier was smart enough to get the 2100MHz spectrum06:41
ShadowJKgsm+umts at 900, gsm+lte at 1800, umts at 210006:41
ShadowJKhere at least :P06:41
ShadowJKand now they want lte at 800 or 450 or something too06:42
ShadowJK450 currently used by flash-ofdm06:42
Sc0rpiusIn my country 2100 MHz is used by the army and it's not open06:42
Sc0rpiusso carriers use UMTS @ 900 or 1900 depending on the carrier06:42
DocScrutinizerthat's a lame excuse06:42
Sc0rpiusand GSM in 850/900/1800/1900 again depending on the carrier06:43
ShadowJKThey started umts on 2100 here, it was terrible. The short range of 2100 made it suck so hard :)06:43
Sc0rpiusyeah UMTS @ 900 is the best06:43
Sc0rpiusbecause of the long range06:43
DocScrutinizeryeah, UMTS for the poor06:44
Sc0rpiusI get nice speed, as I said, 3 Mbps and it's stable06:44
Sc0rpiusI'm happy with it :)06:44
Sc0rpiusand my N900 last 2 whole days at 3G06:44
* ShadowJK downloaded at 800kbyte/s yesterday, 9-10km from the base station :)06:45
Sc0rpiusmy english is getting worse everyday instead of improving06:45
Sc0rpiusnice ShadowJK06:45
DocScrutinizercarrier needs only 1/10 of BTS, and who cares about battery of MTs is empty 4 times faster, nobody can afford using UMTS for long anyway06:45
ShadowJKLooks like carriers aren't that interested in upgrading my local tower though :(06:46
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ShadowJKMaybe 50 people live within its range ;p06:46
DocScrutinizerjust annoying every phone owner on this world has to pay 3 bucks extra for USA idiocy of using bands nonstandard06:48
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RobbieThe1stDocScrutinizer: Tell me about it. Not only that, but they make sure to use different bands for each carrier, making it hard to switch between carriers :\06:50
DocScrutinizerthat's all intentional06:50
RobbieThe1stOf course.06:50
DocScrutinizercarefully thought and planned06:50
RobbieThe1stDoesn't make it -right-. IMHO, the FCC should step in and force them to be inter-operable; I mean, they said that Jailbreaking is legal, so this would be the next logical step06:51
DocScrutinizerFCC insisted on the 850/1900 scheme for GSM in USA06:52
RobbieThe1stThat explains why AT&T/T-mobile are compatible at least.06:52
jonwilThey should have insisted on a uniform band for UMTS in the US also06:52
jonwilinstead of the wierd 1700 band t-mobile are using06:53
DocScrutinizerand nobody can tell me military isn't ale to tune their walkietalkies and radars down from 900 to 85006:53
RobbieThe1stMind, the military isn't gonna be on the same band as civilian stuff - for good reason06:54
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DocScrutinizerin USA they are on a band that 's civilian in rest of this world06:54
DocScrutinizerI can't see any other rationale for the 850/1900 instead of 900/1800 in USA06:55
DocScrutinizerwell, except the secret *real* reasons to differ from anybody else06:56
RobbieThe1stIIRC, I read something about that - US and who was it - England perhaps? - setup opposite bands for military/cvilian.06:56
RobbieThe1stSo whichever the US had, the other country had em backwards06:56
DocScrutinizerwhich is more about economics than about military06:56
DocScrutinizer900/1800 is pretty much worldwide standard06:57
DocScrutinizerfor GSM06:57
RobbieThe1stOf course, these days it should be possible to just make a super-dodeka-band chip that covers every frequency and transmission scheme ever used.06:57
DocScrutinizerbut it's almost impossible to create a decent antenna for that06:58
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RobbieThe1stCould it be possible to make an all-in-one device that handles Bluetooth and Wifi as well, and uses say four antennas to handle it?06:59
DocScrutinizerwhy do you think the worldwide standard is 900/2*900 - it's just do facilitate antenna design06:59
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RobbieThe1stYea, I suppose07:00
RobbieThe1stI dunno... is the new LTE 4G or w/e going to all be on the same band?07:01
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DocScrutinizerafaik LTE is backwards compatible07:01
DocScrutinizernot sure about it though07:02
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DocScrutinizeri.e. LTE == UMTS+++07:02
rtylerany maemo folks going to SCALE this weekend in LA?07:02
ShadowJKand the whole "cognitive radio" thing :/07:04
RobbieThe1stHm... Y'know, the -other- option would be to simply build the radio/antenna into a sim-card-like-device - You'd then be able to use almost any phone with any carrier, in any region07:05
RobbieThe1stCourse, it'll never happen - Too easy to change carriers :\07:05
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ShadowJKlike a miniature USB hsdpa modem, except not usb, and not necessarily hsdpa ;p07:05
ShadowJKIt's probably going the other way though07:07
RobbieThe1stHeck, make it SD-card compatible; then you can use it in all sorts of current devices and applications07:07
ShadowJKapple is working on removing the sim card ;p07:07
RobbieThe1stOh, I'm sure. :\ Then, -no- way to change carriers. Lock down hooray!07:07
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RobbieThe1stI have to say once more that the n900's just about the most awesome phone ever. I was able to just download a webm file off youtube, drop it on my n900, and play it with the built in media player quite nicely.07:20
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ShadowJKhuh, I don't think that's supposed to work07:35
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RobbieThe1stShadowJK: ?07:43
RobbieThe1st(Mind, I installed decoders-support or w/e earlier)07:43
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slonopotamus ideas?08:03
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slonopotamusthe funniest thing is that it fails in i386 target08:10
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villagerslonopotamus: probably division by zero08:19
slonopotamusvillager: thanks, Captain :)08:20
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villagerslonopotamus: don't know enough perl to look at why, though... (nor do I want to know perl)... was just implying that division by zero is likely to happen on i386 also...08:21
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slonopotamusvillager: okay, that was scratchbox, again08:31
slonopotamusSBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE ftw!08:31
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lolcatWhy don't firefoz have an icon?08:57
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pupnizzzzDocScrutinizer: thanks - as i suspected the resonant chamber is also larger10:23
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pupnik  heheh sfw10:30
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RST38hhow much?10:39
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* jonwil is still going nowhere with his N900 work11:02
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alteregojonwil: relax, have a coffee, and do something more productive :P11:05
jonwilI am just frustrated that the features I want on my N900 are not possible, like per-contact ringtones or cell broadcast SMS11:06
pupnikper-contact ringtones would be appreciated by many people for sure11:07
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jonwilhmmm, before I abandon that idea completly, firstly I need to ID which binary reads the ringtone value from the config and plays it11:07
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pupnikgood plan11:08
alteregoThere are a few good technical reasons why contact ringtones aren't available tbh11:09
jonwilwhat technical reasons would that be?11:09
alteregoRingtones are stored as wavs (i think in rootfs)11:09
alteregoSo space requirements are quite large ..11:09
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jacekowskiother phones can do it11:09
jacekowskikeep it compressed11:09
jacekowskiin easy decompressible format11:10
jacekowskiand mlock decoders11:10
alteregojacekowski: other phones aren't the N90011:10
jacekowskisingle decoder*11:10
jonwilwell let me look up which binaries are involved in playing ringtones11:10
jonwiland see how fesable it is to do some changes11:10
alteregoI'm not saying it's not possible, I can think of several ways to do it, it's just pa performance is somewhat delicate already in regards to calls11:10
jonwilif it wasnt for those damn closed-source PulseAudio modules, it would be much easier to solve some of those problems IMO11:12
jonwilbut all the "good bits" are closed source :(11:12
alteregoone way would be to make the  ke the ringtone a named pipe, then listen on dbus for the incoming call setup and create a gst pipeline to decompress and appsink out to the pipe.11:12
ruskiealterego, considering that the ringtone can also be $random file anywhere I don't really see a point...11:13
RobbieThe1stOut of curiosity, couldn't we just run say 'mplayer /path/to/ringtone' from a script when there's an incoming call which meets certain criteria? Surely the phone-number's available via Dbus11:13
ruskiein that technical reason11:13
alteregoRobbieThe1st: yes, in theory :)11:13
RobbieThe1st'course, if we need wavs, just stick em in MyDocs - Plenty of space there!11:14
alteregoThat is also an interesting idea11:14
ruskiemy ringtone is mp311:14
jonwilOnce I find out which binary plays the rintone, I will know how easy it will be to do something about it11:14
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ruskieso don't really see why it needs to be wav or where you got that idea11:14
alteregoProblem is I think the PA policy will mute that line and use the dialer ..11:14
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jonwilmine is MP3 but the phone copied it as wav11:15
jonwiland copied it somewhere11:15
alteregoruskie: because it -is- wav, generated from whatever file you select.11:15
RobbieThe1struskie: mp3 gets decompressed to (essentially) a .wav file before being played. a .wav file is raw audio data mostly11:15
jacekowskifirst thing11:15
jacekowskiget rid of pulseshit11:15
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ruskiealterego, really? where does it store it?11:15
jonwilI doubt you could drop PulseAudio and not break the system completly11:15
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jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: have you seen how long it takes for mplayer to load and read something from mydocs if you have something heavy running11:16
alteregoruskie: rootfs (i think) it's for performance.11:16
ruskieRobbieThe1st, that sounds broken... if it does before playing it...11:16
ruskiealterego, where exactly?11:16
jacekowskiruskie: it's not broken11:16
alteregoruskie: I don't know, google :P11:16
ruskieso you just assume then that this is so?11:17
jacekowskithat file is there11:17
alteregoI know it's a wav.11:17
RobbieThe1struskie: No, I mean simply that's how things work on -any- system. The actual DAC takes raw binary data.11:17
ruskieyet nobody knows where...11:17
alteregoI just don't recall where it is ..11:17
jacekowskiruskie: we know where11:17
RobbieThe1struskie: mp3 is compressed. Whether it gets decoded by a specific chip, or on the CPU, it still gets decoded to raw data before being played.11:17
alteregoAnd if you're interested, fucking google.11:17
* alterego goes for a shower11:18
pupnikaplay snd.wav is faster loading than mplayer for e.g.11:18
pupnikbut the named pipe idea is clever11:18
jacekowskiit doesn't work11:18
RobbieThe1stjacekowski: Yea, I suppose. But that's as much a problem of the IO stuff than anything else11:18
jacekowskisomebody tried it11:18
jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: io and cpu11:18
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alteregojacekowski: really? oh :(11:19
jacekowskithat's why if we would recompress stuff as mp3 and have decoder running at -19 nice11:19
jacekowskiand mlock it11:19
jacekowskiwe could do it11:19
alteregoI was thinking you'd probably have to always make sure there was data available11:19
pupnikjonwil is the only guy actually not-bullshitting atm :)11:19
RobbieThe1stjacekowski: I say IO's more of a problem cause we have nice(etc) working to prioritize. With the stock n900, I don't think we have anything like that for io11:19
RobbieThe1stionice is - afaik - not installed11:19
jonwilthe ringtones are stored in /home/user/.local/share/sounds11:20
jonwilthats where the .wavs go11:20
alteregopupnik: hey! I'm just telling it like it is :P11:20
jacekowskias far as i remember nice -19 sets io prio quite high11:20
jonwilThe ringtone is set in a config file by the tag ringing.alert.tone11:20
jacekowskibut ionice isnt'a problem11:20
jonwilwhich is referenced in 4 binaries11:20
jacekowskiit's single syscall11:20
jonwilprofiles control panel11:21
jonwilmake that 311:21
jonwilhildon plugins notify sv11:21
ruskiehmm interesting solution on how to silence ringtones...11:21
jonwiland mediaplayer.launch11:21
ruskieit actually symlinks them to silence.wav11:21
ruskieand from what I can tell it's all kept on the emmc so don't really see a technical limitation for size...11:22
pupnikyou know the 'rotating lady' illusion - now you can switch it back and forth at will... (OT)11:22
RobbieThe1stHm... Could we setup a script that - upon recieving a call - basically "pauses" all of user's applications, then plays the ringtone? By preventing other stuff from doing IO/using CPU, we ought to be able to get good performance for that11:22
alteregoruskie: fair enough11:22
alteregoruskie: I presumed it was on root, if it's emmc than that does reduce the burden11:23
alteregoIt may be possible to symlink different tones before the call pipeline is setup.11:23
ruskiewas thinking about that11:23
ruskiesince that's how ringtoned seems to actually work for silent profile as well11:23
alteregoThere's a lot of dbus traffic whilst incoming calls are setup11:23
jonwilso /home/user is on emmc?11:24
alteregoway before the ringtone gets started11:24
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alteregojonwil: yes11:24
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alteregoAnyhow, shower time, bbiab11:24
ruskieit's part of /home where also /home/opt lives11:24
jonwilThe easy solution is to either ask Nokia for the source code to Hildon-plugins-notify-sv or to reverse engineer Hildon-plugins-notify-sv ourself and make a functional replacement11:24
jonwilsince thats where the ringtones come from11:24
ruskiethe big chunk of space is /home/user/MyDocs which is a separate mount11:25
ruskieso basically a lot of stuff in /home/user will reduce /opt space as well11:25
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psycho_oreos/home/user only has 2GB so yeah its shared between the two (/home/user and /opt)11:26
ruskiestill don't get it why nokia then provides their own tunes in .aac if in the end it needs to be cached as wav...11:26
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RobbieThe1struskie: Cause that's how things work at the chip-level?11:26
ruskieRobbieThe1st, you're not feeding the chip the raw encoded file11:26
ruskieyou do: decoder > devicetooutputto11:26
ruskieyou know.. like any other system does it on the pc mac etc...11:27
RobbieThe1stExactly. You're decoding it(to wav) before outputting it11:27
ruskieRobbieThe1st, no in this case it's PRE-decoded as wav11:27
ruskieit's not let's take the mp3... and decode it just now to the audio device11:27
RobbieThe1stTo save CPU time I'd imagine11:27
RobbieThe1stThey probably intended it to be decoding on the fly... But ran into performance issues and just cached it11:28
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jonwilanyone know anything about libplayback or libprofile or profiled or profile-data?11:29
jonwildamn, looks like libplayback (whatever that is) is closed source with no -dev package11:29
jonwiloh wait there IS a -dev package11:29
jonwillooks like every package that Hildon-plugins-notify-sv depends on has a -dev package at the very least11:30
jonwilwhich will help with cloning it11:30
jonwilthe fact that it has a nokia-binaries x86 package also helps11:30
jonwilas x86 is easier to reverse engineer than ARM11:31
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jonwiland its high enough up the OS stack that its unlikely to contain different code for x86 vs ARM11:32
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jonwiltime to warm up the linux box and pull the plugin from my SDK install11:34
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jonwilLets see how hard this is going to be to clone11:41
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JaffaDocScrutinizer51: jonwil: Did you manage a wiki page, btw?11:51
jonwilfor what? dialer? no11:51
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JaffaDocScrutinizer51: jonwil: (regarding the closed stuff and who/what/why wanted it open)11:51
crashanddiejonwil, what are the advantages of talking to oneself?11:51
jonwilI did come up with that wiki btw11:52
jonwiltempted to file a bug (and add a wiki entry11:52
toadpolehey does the region-specific firmware come with local language support?11:52
jonwilrelated to custom ringtones11:52
toadpoleon the n900, tha is11:53
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Jaffajonwil: URL for the wiki page?11:53
* Jaffa would like to send it to Nokia11:53
Jaffabergie: ping11:54
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Jaffajonwil: thanks11:54
jonwilLet me handle this custom ringtone thing first before you send it11:54
jonwillet me see if there is already a request for the feature11:54
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jonwilunlike, say, rtcom-dialer-ui, I dont think libhildon-plugins-notify-sv is out of the relms of possiblity for Nokia to open source11:55
jonwilno bug exists, let me file one11:56
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tybollt< crashanddie> jonwil, what are the advantages of talking to oneself?12:01
tybolltThat way I always know I'm talking to a complete asshole. :-)12:02
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jonwilwhats the name of the app that lets you edit contacts?12:07
Jaffajonwil: "Contacts"?12:08
jonwilfound it, the package is osso-addressbook12:09
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jonwilok, there are too many closed-source back end libraries and other things for it to be possible to store the per-contact ring-tone information with other contact details in the address book12:13
jonwilplus I cant see Nokia open sourcing the address book backends anymore than they already have12:13
jonwilfor all sorts of reasons12:13
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Jaffajonwil: The plugin API, or the use of a dummy "account" might make it work?12:18
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Khertan1a little gui question ... how to display a list of accounts (which is a set of a 6 parameters ... login, password, host, ... ) in a settings dialog. Put them all in a editable qtreeview ? or did you have better idea ?12:21
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lolcatN900 for 535USD, new?12:21
lolcatGood deal?12:21
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jattcan I get "Angry Birds" for free?12:22
lolcatI belive there is a free demo with 10 levels12:22
ruskielolcat, erm.. I can get new full 2 year warranty for 180eur ;)12:22
jattdid your n900 screen got scratches?12:23
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lolcatjatt: Mine had scratches when I got it12:23
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lolcatruskie: A warranty, I am talking of the phone12:24
jattI meant after using it for a while12:24
lolcatjatt: Got it cheap, display model12:24
jattI think is unavoidable?12:24
jattoh, and another question, can you clean the screen with the same stuff you clean laptop screens?12:24
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lolcatI clean my screen with the stuff I clean windows with12:25
jattI mean the n900 screen12:25
ruskielolcat, I meant a n900 with a full 2 year warranty12:26
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lolcatjatt: Me too12:28
lolcatI clean everything with this shit12:28
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lolcatJif Window cleaner12:28
jonwilok, bug 11983 filed12:28
povbotBug Open source libhildon-plugins-notify-sv12:28
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jonwilI dont know if per-contact ringtones will be possible without the dialer and SMS app source (which is what talks to this code)12:29
jonwilbut its worth looking into12:29
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jonwiloh wait I guess our new ringtone thing could register with telepathy and mission-control to pick up all incoming calls and SMSs12:30
jonwilincluding skype etc12:30
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cos^does anyone know how to get sound from flite on command line?12:33
lolcatruskie: How can you get that cheap?12:33
ruskielolcat, second hand... ppl buy it with their contract for 180eur then flog it to others from 180-300eur12:34
ruskiebut yeah... new not used original everything12:34
ruskieincluding warranty12:34
lolcatI need a drunkphone!12:35
ruskieI'm planing on buying one for somewhere in the 180-300 area this year12:35
jonwilJaffa: is updated12:36
jonwilwith the ringtone thing12:36
pupnikruskie: used worn units sell for 200-260 here12:36
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ruskiepupnik, well here they are new in box...12:37
ruskienote 180 is the cheapest I saw(and that's for how much they were being flogged by the cellcos)12:37
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pupnikin .ru?12:37
ruskiedon't assume based on nick12:38
Jaffajonwil: Thanks12:38
ruskiewell not really suprised that the 180 eur deal has been sold already12:38
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ruskiethe next one up after that is 200 for an 8month used... 260 for a new in box with everything12:40
ruskie533eur is the full asking price in store12:40
psycho_oreosI wonder if it'll be cheaper if I buy one from one of the asian countries, no I'm not thinking about clones but maybe making a deal with the shop owner to buy one and get one free or the second one at some discount knowing that N900 didn't sell like hotcakes :D12:40
ruskie400eur is the cheapest new from store I can see...12:42
ruskieand that is on sale12:42
jattthe thing is a mini computer the price is fair12:42
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psycho_oreosthe smartphones these days can also function as a mini computer, plus some of them have better hardware than that of found in N900.12:44
jonwilJaffa: So you are going to push those requests to the right people at Nokia and see if they are possible?12:45
jonwilIs there anything on that list that doesnt sound like its possible?12:45
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lolcatruskie: That is around 535USD12:50
ruskiewhat is?12:50
ruskie400 eur?12:50
ruskie400 Euros = 552.96 U.S. dollars12:50
ruskieI guess you could call it a deal12:51
lolcatMine has 5 years warranty!12:51
ruskienot manufacturers probably12:52
lolcatWich is bether12:53
lolcatThey have two attempts to fix an error12:53
lolcatif it breaks again I get a refund12:53
ruskieerm country?12:54
ruskiealso note Which != Wich12:54
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lolcatWich wich is wich?12:57
ruskiesomeone actually uses wich as his nickname and tends to point outh that which != wich12:58
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ruskiewich is actually a variant of wick12:58
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ruskiewhile which is what you are looking for13:00
ruskiehelps ;)13:01
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* ruskie reintegrated his old n95 as an alarm solution... seems to be having more effect now...13:04
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lolcatWhat I really want is USB support13:09
ruskieyou mean OTG?13:11
SpeedEvilOTG is not USB host.13:12
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SpeedEvilUSB host is female, USB OTG is transexual.13:13
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SpeedEvilSo I suppose the analogy would complete and make the n900 a girl that claimed not to be able to take her strap-on off.13:16
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jacekowskithing is that not many people want to deal with trans13:18
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jattyou had problems with the micro usb connector? I read it breaks13:46
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ruskie <-- hmm13:47
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jattjust type your password14:08
jacekowskijatt: no14:08
jattto unlock it14:08
MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, ping14:08
jacekowskijatt: phone can be locked14:08
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MohammadAGor timeless_office14:08
jattwhat? where14:08
jacekowskijatt: by operator14:08
Venemo_N900ruskie: see topleft button in
Treibholzhas anybody ever got xbmc-potato to work?14:08
jacekowskiniala1: no public unlock is available at the moment14:08
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ruskieVenemo_N900, ahh I have community translation installed...14:09
ruskieodd that it calls it SIM unlock14:09
jacekowskiruskie: because it's called simlock14:09
jacekowskiruskie: it locks phone to sims from specific operator14:09
niala1jacekowski: so if it's locked i musn't buy it ?14:09
jacekowskiniala1: yeah14:09
jacekowskiniala1: but it's very unlikely that it's locked14:09
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niala1I'll burn a candle then to the god of Gsm14:11
niala1thank you all14:11
Venemo_N900niala1: try it with your sim before buying14:12
niala1yep i must think of bring them14:13
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jonwilWas the N900 ever sold locked to a particular carrier?14:22
Venemo_N900jonwil: I can't account for every carrier that sold it, but I'd say it's likely14:23
jonwilThat depends on whether the N900 supports the feature in the first place14:23
jonwilI havent seen any evidence that it does14:23
TreibholzI thought they didn't want to sell it because you can do to much with it.14:24
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Venemo_N900jonwil: see or read scrollback14:24
jonwilok, so it does14:24
Venemo_N900jonwil: why would there be a "remove operator lock" feature if it didn't support operator locks?14:24
TreibholzI have this option on my device, too. But it definitelly has no SIM-lock.14:27
Venemo_N900yeah, mine doesn't either14:27
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ruskiefrom what I understand the only limitation for operators was no custom firmware14:28
ruskieand I'm assuming SIM locking is part of the GSM stack so that's where the locking/unlocking would actually happen14:28
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Khertan1hu ... i ve this menu too14:32
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ruskiewell I'm 100% sure mine isn't locked since I actually bought it direct from the nokia distributor here14:33
ruskielong long before any cellco here had any interest in the device14:34
ruskietook them like 9 months or so to even start offering it14:34
Venemo_N900I bought mine used from an auction site a year ago14:34
lolcatVenemo_N900: How much?14:34
lolcatI can't get windows 95 to boot properly14:35
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Venemo_N900lolcat: 120 000 HUF, a year ago14:35
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lolcatHUF never heard of that kind of money14:36
ruskieforint iirc14:36
ruskie440 eur or so14:36
Venemo_N900it was around 440 EUR14:37
Venemo_N900sorry, o14:38
Venemo_N900just calculated it with a conversion site14:38
Venemo_N900it was 420 eur14:38
Venemo_N900fairly reasonable price a year ago14:38
lolcatMy N900 just shut down without a reason :(14:38
lolcatMaybe a little...14:39
lolcatGood I got that offer for a new N900 then xD14:39
Khertan1uh ... didn't sell anymore n90014:40
lolcatCrap, it won't boot xD14:40
lolcatYou think it is dead forever? :P14:44
ruskietried charging it?14:44
Venemo_N900lolcat: evidence that ocing will kill your phone14:44
lolcatGood thinking14:44
Venemo_N900lolcat: DocScrutinizer will be happy to see this. yours is the first one :)14:44
lolcatIt shows the Nokia logo and then it dies xD14:45
lolcatI got to the loading this time14:45
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lolcatWhich(?) means the cpu works14:45
Venemo_N900lolcat: a pity14:45
Venemo_N900lolcat: try a reflash14:45
lolcatI killed my laptop in a similar fashion14:45
* jonwil would never overclock something14:46
* ruskie suggest plug in to decent power... then leave it for some 5 minutes charging14:46
ruskieTHEN try booting it up14:46
lolcatVenemo_N900: Migth have an empty battery, it was several houres since last time I charged it xD14:46
Khertan1379 euros ... best price in france14:46
Khertan1i found that still a bit high14:46
* ruskie is happy he can run his n900 for a few days14:46
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lolcatruskie: Custom battery?14:46
ruskiesw tweaks is all14:47
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ruskiedefault switch to 2G, auto disconnect, no mail checking, no IM14:47
Venemo_N900ruskie: what tweaks?14:47
ruskieand I think the display is set to 4/514:48
lolcatYeah, it booted!14:48
ruskieVenemo_N900, atleast those ;)14:48
ruskiedisabled a pile of auto-start apps14:48
Venemo_N900ruskie: which ones? and how?14:48
ruskieI can wait 5 seconds longer to start an app... no need to prelead it for me...14:48
ruskieediting .desktop files14:48
ruskiethere's a pile of apps that are preloaded14:48
ruskiebrowser, modest, iirc phone... and some others14:49
lolcatShouldn't phone be preloaded14:49
timeless_officepsycho_oreos: the versions of microb for the n900 support xul. the addons dialog is xul14:49
ruskielolcat, well I think I left that one to be preloaded14:49
timeless_officebut note that 'xul' is usually meant to mean '.xul', whereas 'libxul' is just "gecko"14:50
ruskiebut generally I hate things to be preloaded...14:50
lolcatOk GUYS! This wasn't a OC thing! I simply used all the battery!14:50
timeless_officei didn't write microB on my own fwiw, i'm just one of the people involved14:50
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lolcatNot strange really, I used 805mhz at 95%+ for an houre or two14:50
ruskiewould be nice if microb actually supported ssl client certs properly :(14:51
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Venemo_N900I have to leave now14:51
timeless_officejavispedro, docscrutinizer: it wasn't a failure to nickserv, it was a nick collision w/ a ghost during a net-split merge14:51
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lolcatIs there a way to get the programs I don't use in a folder?14:52
lolcatI have too many icons14:52
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timeless_officemohammadag: pong?14:53
lolcatruskie: Where is teh .desktop file?14:53
ruskieunder there14:53
Khertan1lolcat: /usr/share/applications/hildon/14:53
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lolcatIt is not a single file to edit?14:55
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jonwilok, I confirmed the operator lock stuff is done by a packet sent to the cell modem (as I suspected :)14:56
ruskielolcat, examine the phone.desktop file whatever it is14:56
Khertan1jonwil: so locking n900 is possible ...14:56
ruskieyou should see some X- stuff14:56
jonwilyes it is14:56
Khertan1jonwil: ouch ...14:56
jonwilit would only be locked if it was bought from a carrier who wanted it locked14:57
Khertan1jonwil: so ... the french azerty edition's are all unlocked ... no carrier sell it :)14:57
jonwilmine is definatly unlocked14:58
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ruskie <-- O.o N900 mentioned15:00
lolcatI installed Opera and FF 4 beta15:00
* ruskie wants vimprobable2 on his n900...15:00
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* jonwil wants Nano on his N90015:01
Khertan1a little gui question ... how to display a list of accounts (which is a set of a 6 parameters ... login, password, host, ... ) in a settings dialog. Put them all in a editable qtreeview ? or did you have better idea ?15:01
ruskiejonwil, that's dead easy15:01
Khertan1apt-get install nano15:01
jonwilactually nano would be useless due to lack of a ctrl key15:01
jonwilor rather easy-to-get-at ctrl key15:01
ruskiejonwil, there is a ctrl key15:01
lolcatYou have a ctrl key15:02
jonwiloh yeah right15:02
lolcatI discovered it today xD15:02
Khertan1vim is difficult as it s lack an escape key15:02
lolcatI have had the n900 for several months15:02
ruskieKhertan1, not really15:02
jonwilheh, I can even begin to imagine the horror that would flow from emacs-on-n90015:03
* ruskie has Ctrl Tab Esc Up Dn ~ | > keys in xterm bar15:03
ruskieerm PgUp PgDn15:03
Khertan1ruskie: it s not key it  s shortcut15:03
Khertan1and slower to use :)15:03
ruskieKhertan1, I think I might have bound it to a key combo as well15:04
ruskieaka changed the keymap15:04
Khertan1ruskie: i ve code my own editor :)15:04
ruskiebut no... it's not slower to use15:04
pupnik"I worked for an effort to show how S40 could be re-used on smartphones a clever little group installed embedded linux, with QT, and managed to get S40 running on it. The whole hack made it look like a linux phone, but all the S40 stuff people liked did not have to be re-written or ported - it was taken as-is."15:04
Khertan1pupnik: gnié?15:04
pupnikKhertan1: i'm just reading from article comments on
Khertan1so you got the unliked look like of a linux phone with the lack of feature of s4015:05
ruskies40 is a good stack15:06
pupnik"Let's not forget that WinPho7 is - natch - the 7th iteration of Mobile Windows. And under its achingly edgy UI, it's still a pile of steaming badger kidneys."  hahah15:06
lolcatCould we run S60 on our phone?15:06
ruskielolcat, why?15:07
lolcatruskie: Spotify offline15:07
jonwilyou couldn't pay me to use a Windows Phone 7, Symbian or IOS phone15:07
ruskie <-- fun... now you can get scammed by the transport authority... I think I'll stick to having a separate card for everything...15:08
ruskienot to mention last I checked the human rights specify I can haz right to anonymous travel... which means no you can't have my CC info to track me by...15:08
ruskiewhy are people so stupid and want to give up their rights...15:08
jonwilI like the N900 because you can program it in C/C++, to program iOS I would need to learn the bastardized piece of crap known as Objective-C15:09
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ruskiejonwil, isn't ObjC just C with a few objective pecific additions?15:10
jonwilits C with a rather crappy OOP later on top15:10
ruskieand C++ is?15:10
jonwilC++ is far nicer than Objective-C15:10
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ruskieC with a weird syntax and crappy OOP layer on top... ;)15:10
ruskieif it's based on C it will always have crappy OOP layer on top15:11
derfI hate C++ with burning fire of a thousand suns, but even I agree ObjectiveC is crap in comparison.15:11
ruskieI'd say each has their strengths and weaknesses15:12
derfUntil iOS, ObjectiveC's primary strength was that nobody used it.15:13
ruskiederf, you mean other than MacOS?15:14
jonwilJAVA is even worse15:14
ruskieand NeXT15:14
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jonwilis worse still15:15
ruskieC# line for line looks almost exactly like JAVA15:15
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derfruskie: Exactly. Nobody.15:16
crashanddiehow about you take the trollfest to somewhere people care?15:16
lolcatWhy won't dosbox in debian use the dosbox in maemo's config15:16
lolcatWhere should I copy it too?15:17
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ruskiecrashanddie, as soon as you point out the trollfest15:17
ruskiecrashanddie, we're simply having a nice civil debate15:17
crashanddieC# vs Java vs MacOS15:17
ruskiesince the rest of the channel seems to be quiet15:17
pupnikcrashanddie trolls with the best of them15:18
crashanddieyou're still mightily offtopic, and purposefully discussing topics that will raise something out of people, so just put a cork on it, will ya?15:18
crashanddiepupnik, I think we're both roughly on the same troll-scale gradient ;)15:18
lolcatruskie: Do you know?15:19
MohammadAGthere's nothing wrong with having an opinion about a language15:19
crashanddieMohammadAG, unless you argue that opinion with mere triviality rather than facts15:20
crashanddieMohammadAG, and claiming that a language is shit because "nobody uses it", or "it looks like crap", is about as righteous as saying the Mona Lisa is a crap piece of art because she's not asian15:21
crashanddie'nuff said15:21
ruskiecrashanddie, yet all of those are valid opinions ;)15:21
ruskiean opinion does not require to be technical to be valid15:21
crashanddie"Opinions are like assholes, everyone got them. Still no reason for you to shove them up under other people's noses for inspection"15:22
ruskieglad to hear your opinion about everything15:22
ruskiesince you opinioned on the whole debate that it's a trollfest15:23
crashanddieyou're about 30 seconds away from getting banned. And that's a fact.15:23
ruskiethat would be a first15:23
JaffaIt's doubly off-topic because none of C#, Java or Mac OS run on Maemo or Maemo devices well.15:23
crashanddieHas anyone ever tried porting Mono to Maemo?15:24
* lolcat can write C#15:24
keriololcat: but can you write LOLCODE?15:24
lolcatAt least in theory15:24
Jaffa(and, FFS, if you're going to try and look all knowledgable about the pros & cons of different languages, at least learn that "Java" is not an acronym, and not CAPITALISED)15:24
MohammadAGcanhaz <Qt>15:24
keriohmm, why should someone learn C# instead of java?15:24
lolcatkerio: Not really, had a class on C#. 4 houres a week for a year15:24
MohammadAGkerio, see, I can)15:24
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Jaffacrashanddie: There was a port, IIRC. But it got as much traction as the Java port.15:24
crashanddiekerio, mainly because some vendors only provide C# APIs15:25
ruskie <-- to be precise15:25
kerioMohammadAG: that's not lolcode15:25
crashanddiekerio, and AFAICT, you can use Java classes from C#, but not the other way around.15:25
JaffaPrimarily because of: a) no (decent) JIT; b) lack of GUI bindings15:25
lolcatkerio: Most of the time I got errors it was because I forgott what language I was writing. VB and C# apparently has very diffrent syntaxes15:25
kerioMohammadAG: CAN HAS QT?15:25
Jaffacrashanddie: Presumably you could drop to C#'s equivalent of JNI and then back up through JNI to Java?15:25
keriololcat: of course, one is visual basic and the other is java15:25
crashanddieJaffa, hardly15:25
kerioMohammadAG: STDIO is full caps, so i assume Qt is too15:26
* Jaffa not done much with C#, fortunately.15:26
MohammadAGQT sucks kerio15:26
MohammadAGQt otoh...15:26
keriowhy should someone learn C# or java instead of python?15:26
JaffaWhy is QuickTime sucking kerio?15:26
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* MohammadAG said that15:26
Jaffakerio: Because the job markets for C# and Java are about a bazillion times more wide and highly paying?15:26
MohammadAGlast time I used QT it took over all my MIMEs15:26
crashanddieJaffa, this one guy made a Java compiler entirely in C#, so that you can take any .class file and you'll get a .dll instead, with the whole lot usable from C#. I used it and it's pretty awesome.15:27
MohammadAGany dbus pros around?15:27
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kerioJaffa: lies :<15:27
xkr47kerio, because they are faster?15:27
ruskieJaffa, according to some ozzie research doing stuff like Delphi, Foxpro, Cobol can get you a $500/hour paying job15:27
kerioxkr47: not really15:27
keriopypy is about as fast as java 6 steady state15:27
crashanddieruskie, in a very limited pool of opportunities15:27
ruskiecrashanddie, true15:27
kerioalso there are no slow languages, just slow implementations15:28
ruskieand specificaly in australia15:28
Jaffakerio: If you're a hobbyist programmer, use a language that's available on the platform your hobby targets. For Maemo, that's Python. For desktop Windows, C# or Java would probably be better. For desktop Windows, it's probably a three way tie15:28
thpMohammadAG: what's the d-bus problem?15:28
xkr47kerio, exactly15:28
MohammadAGthp, solved15:28
crashanddiekerio, actually, that's not entirely true. A language with sloppy typecasting will always be slower than a heavily typed language, simply because any kind of comparison, stack inspection or operation won't have to do conversions...15:29
Jaffaruskie: I don't claim there aren't high-paying jobs out there for obscure languages like Delphi (hell, we use(d) Delphi here). My point is that the total salary of all Java developers will be higher than the total salary of all paid Python developers; because there are so many more jobs in it.15:29
MohammadAGthp, sorry about that :P15:29
lcukJaffa, of course, my hobby language was ASM15:29
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keriocrashanddie: so python is fast! :D15:29
xkr47why would I learn python..15:29
ruskieJaffa, yes but the person getting a job will only be interested in how much they can get ;)15:29
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xkr47kerio, well there is of course jython :-)15:30
* ruskie needs to learn to learn languages...15:30
Khertan1a little gui question ... how to display a list of accounts (which is a set of a 6 parameters ... login, password, host, ... ) in a settings dialog. Put them all in a editable qtreeview ? or did you have better idea ?15:30
Jaffalcuk: BBC BASIC, 6502 assembler, ARM assembler, Perl and now it's a mix of shell scripting; Perl; Python; Java; Groovy15:30
MohammadAGVenemo, replacement dialog ready, is Qt Animation framework easy?15:30
xkr47Jaffa, you should try bytecode languages :-)15:31
thpMohammadAG: ;)15:31
crashanddiekerio, it also lacks all of the enterprise features that Java offers... Go ask IBM to dump PI or JHI or RFT on your Python app, just for shits and giggles ;)15:31
Jaffaxkr47: I've done a tiny bit of Java bytecode manipulation ;-)15:31
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xkr47Jaffa, yeah it's fun :)15:31
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djszapiHow can I open a chat window up inside the gmail account from the left side with my N900 ?15:31
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xkr47Jaffa, should investigate other ones as well, like the perl6 bytecodes and c# etc15:32
thpKhertan1: 6 rows of label + text entry pairs, or text entry with "default" (gray) text without labels?15:32
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djszapiI am trying the one, double click with stylus, but nothing happens regarding that.15:32
Khertan1Jaffa: i know some well paid python dev working in finance that get arround same than 15 java dev together :)15:32
Jaffakerio: The obstinance of typical open source developers to look beyond there own trivial projects at the massive amount of money and investment in ecosystems like Java constantly surprises me.15:32
Jaffaxkr47: I still follow Parrot with interest and fascination15:32
MohammadAGthp, do you know how to get the string here in Qt?15:32
xkr47Jaffa, agreed on both :)15:32
Khertan1thp: on the small screen of the n900 ... difficult to see what it ll render15:32
MohammadAGsignal sender=:1.19 -> dest=(null destination) serial=8361 path=/com/nokia/csd/call;; member=Coming15:32
MohammadAG   object path "/com/nokia/csd/call/1"15:32
MohammadAG   string "00000000"15:32
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thpMohammadAG: "string here in qt"?15:33
JaffaKhertan1: As I said, some Python devs get paid a lot. So do some Java devs. Most aren't rich beyond the dreams of avarice, but there are more Java jobs out there.15:33
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crashanddieJaffa, that before-last sentence didn't compute with me15:33
kerioJaffa: yeah, stupid open source programmers that nobody pays, working on their hobbies instead of focusing on enterprise15:33
derfI still maintain that Java is an excellent language for mediocre programmers.15:33
MohammadAGthp, the string from that dbus message15:33
Khertan1thp my problem isn't coding the things ... but found something that is readable :)15:33
derfWhich is good, because there are a lot of mediocre programmers.15:33
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Khertan1Jaffa: depends on functional domain ...15:34
Jaffacrashanddie: I've met lots of people online (different IRC channels, talkers, /.) who say things like "nobody uses Java"15:34
crashanddiederf, agreed15:34
keriolots of people use java15:34
kerioit doesn't mean they should15:34
crashanddieJaffa, oh, right.15:34
crashanddiekerio, to be very brutally honest, there is no alternative.15:34
crashanddieAs simply as that.15:34
thpMohammadAG: in the normal d-bus python bindings, you'll add a signal receiver / filter (don't know the terms in QtDBus)15:34
Khertan1Jaffa: and there is far more dev ... so it s difficult to catch attention of employer15:34
MohammadAGthp, ui->numberLabel->setText(message.arguments()[1].toString());15:35
MohammadAGthat was easy :p15:35
Khertan1MohammadAG: toString() ????15:35
Khertan1MohammadAG: beurk15:36
thpoh, so you already received the message15:36
crashanddiekerio, the simple mind boggling amount of absolutely fantastic tools that help any big (300k+ SLOC) application to understand where the bottleneck is, how to streamline the processes involved, and visualise every single piece information through bite-sized chunks is enough to convince me that Java is still one heck of a language15:36
thpKhertan1: it's a QVariant15:37
Khertan1MohammadAG: use sip api215:37
Khertan1faster ... better ... stronger ...15:37
Khertan1(and maintained)15:37
lcukwhat language do they use on the shuttle?15:37
Khertan1MohammadAG: or pyside15:37
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crashanddielcuk, good question15:37
MohammadAGKhertan1, this is C++, why should I use Python15:37
Khertan1MohammadAG: ah ... oups sorry :)15:37
lcukI believe the computer systems are dual coded by different teams in completely different environments15:37
Khertan1you still need to do conv and type casting so :)15:37
MohammadAGlol no worries15:37
crashanddielcuk, "HAL/S is a real-time aerospace programming language, best known for its use in the Space Shuttle program. It was designed by Intermetrics in the 1970s for NASA. HAL/S is written in XPL, a dialect of PL/I."15:38
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lcukand then deployed to different machines15:38
crashanddieThey fucking named their programming language HAL15:38
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lcukthat is because NASA are simply awesome.15:38
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Khertan1GOTO++ Will rulez all !!!!15:38
crashanddie"HAL/S has native support for integers, floating point scalars, vector, matrices, booleans and strings of 8-bit characters, limited to a maximum length of 255. Structured types may be composed using a DECLARE STRUCT statement."15:38
lcukso, no unicode on the shuttle15:39
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crashanddiewhich explains why it took them so long to accept foreign astronauts, the system would segfault on UTF-8 characters15:39
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lardmanwhat was it used for? Design of the craft or on-board systems?15:39
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crashanddie"The three key principles in designing the language were reliability, efficiency, and machine-independence. The language is designed to allow aerospace-related tasks (such as vector/matrix arithmetic) to be accomplished in a way that is easily understandable to people who have spaceflight knowledge, but may not necessarily have proficiency with computer programming."15:40
lcuklardman, onboard systems afaik15:40
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crashanddie"For instance, the letter 'C' in the first column indicates that the whole line is a comment and should be ignored by the compiler."15:41
crashanddieSo much for variables or statements that begin with C15:41
lardmanseems fair15:41
lardmanyou even program in FORTRAN crashanddie?15:41
lcukcrashanddie, does that mean everything you say should be ignored by the compiler :P15:41
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crashanddielardman, nope15:41
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crashanddielcuk, not a capital C... Close, but no cigar.15:42
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lardmanwell be happy then ;)15:42
markinfoHi. I am testing html5 videos on youtube with Firefox mobil at nokia n900. But it seems terribly slow - nearly unusable. Is there any chance it will be better?15:42
crashanddiemarkinfo, well, it would probably need hardware acceleration, which is unlikely in the near future15:42
lcukmarkinfo, how well do youtube videos work direct from the website on your other mobile devices?15:43
derfmarkinfo: Do the videos play okay outside of YouTube?15:43
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Khertan1the better command of the GOTO++ : GOTOGOTO() %label15:43
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lolcatHow do I reduce the voltage?15:43
* lcuk finds youtube actually plays well enough to be watchable on n900 :)15:43
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Khertan1there is 50% chance of jumping to the label ... and 50% to jump randomly in the code :)15:43
markinfolcuk, you mean to save them loal and play direct?15:43
lcukmarkinfo, no, I mean how well does youtube website play from other handheld devices15:44
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kerioKhertan1: that's even better than COME FROM15:45
markinfolcuk, I have only nokia n900 .... this phone was quite expensive - so I am awaiting some power.15:45
markinfoAdobe flash is not working - o.k. ...but html5 video also not.15:46
lcukmarkinfo, this device is smaller than your hand15:46
lcukI was looking a computer that was bigger than a room the other day15:46
markinfowhat is more powerfull device actually?15:46
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Metallik1ttuhtc desire?15:47
markinfois there some new model?  ... iHeard smartphones has 1GHZ CPU today.15:47
crashanddiewell, "iHurd" in this case might be appropriate15:48
Metallik1ttuN900 would be good if flash 10.1 at least15:48
lcukmarkinfo, and I can carry my laptop15:48
Metallik1ttu+hardware accel15:48
pupnikmarkinfo: you can buy a phone with the 'power' to slide transitions at 60fps.  and click on icons.15:48
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pupnikor you can buy a n900 to have the power to do many different things besides poke at the screen15:49
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crashanddietalking about iHurd, I bought an iPod Touch and Airport Express. Just awesome to control the macbook through remotetap/remote and have the soundsystem in the living room play music without any wires, nor computers in said livingroom.15:49
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pupnikthe n900 is more powerful than any other phone.  but most people don't know how to use those powers.15:49
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MetalliKettuStill there is no phone at market that I would switch my N900 though.15:50
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MetalliKettuDespite it's shortcomings.15:50
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markinfohm - i had long time nokia n810   and week ago a bought nokia n900 ... and just in a few days gone and I see there again not power enough?15:50
crashanddie"A specialist ice cream parlor plans to serve up breast milk ice cream and says people should think of it as an organic, free-range treat. The breast milk concoction, called the "Baby Gaga," will be available from Friday at the Icecreamists restaurant in London's Covent Garden."15:51
crashanddielardman & Jaffa: you guys definitely have to try that :D15:51
pupniki could use more battery power more than i could use more cpu power15:51
pupnikbut carrying a spare battery (or two) solves that15:51
lardmancrashanddie: yuck!15:51
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MetalliKettuI just bought a new battery :) I get 2 days uptime now15:52
nid0whats yuck is the price of it15:52
MetalliKettuMy old one was really worn out :)15:52
ruskieI get 4 days uptime15:52
markinfoyess - attery should be twice so big ... I do not know why is nokia n900 so small. It was better with nokia n810.15:52
ruskiewith the original battery15:52
MetalliKettuI have 3G and connections always on.15:52
ruskienow coming on to ~18 months of use in a few months...15:52
crashanddienid0, 14 quid per serving...15:52
MetalliKettuI also run skype + latitude daemon etc so that why it sucks some juice.15:53
crashanddieHaha, lardman and nid0: ""Some people will hear about it and go, 'yuck' but actually it's pure, organic, free-range and totally natural," he said. "I had a Baby Gaga just this morning and I feel great.""15:53
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MetalliKettuBut I think two days is decent.15:53
Jaffacrashanddie: Depends on the breasts, surely?15:53
nid0Jaffa: they have like 15 mothers signed up to donate15:53
crashanddieJaffa, I don't think the icecream comes out of the breasts15:53
lardmannot with this weather anyway15:54
lcukJaffa, "100% pure organic male breast milk"15:54
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crashanddie"Hang on a second, that's not a breast"15:54
Jaffacrashanddie: Would probably be a Health & Safety issue to get it coming out frozen...15:54
Jaffacrashanddie: Eww15:54
lardmanshock freezing as it hits the cold air15:54
crashanddiethose nipples will look like straws.15:55
Jaffalardman: It's warm in London today15:55
lardmanprobably a nipple eye danger then though15:55
lardmancrashanddie: +1 :D15:55
lcukMaemo, code, computers, breasts.15:55
markinfocan be installed on this  some other operating systeM?15:56
Jaffalcuk: Is this in descending order of interest?15:56
Jaffalcuk: Or on-topicness?15:56
crashanddieJaffa, breasts should be higher than computers15:56
lcukJaffa, I have already made it clear boobies are high priority, especially for multitouch interaction.15:56
crashanddieI mean, when she's standing.15:56
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Jaffacrashanddie: Or he.15:57
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crashanddieJaffa, if he's sitting in front of the computer, then technically his boobies are allowed to be under it15:57
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* lardman wonders how large your screen is to get usable multitouch performance from breasts15:58
lcuklardman, I have a 20" multitouch15:59
crashanddielardman, men get "usable multitouch" with just 2 to 3 inches...15:59
lcukbut it works on my 10" one as well15:59
lcukit might also work on your less than average 7" one15:59
crashanddieYou know what15:59
crashanddieI'm so fucking happy I still use that corny nickname instead of like my real name16:00
crashanddieI'd be screwed during the next job interview if they googled my name and this came up16:00
* Jaffa considers pasting a /who crashanddie16:00
crashanddie"So, tell us about your multitouch breast experience over IRC"16:00
lcukcrashanddie, at least my stuff is related16:00
lcuk :P16:00
crashanddielcuk, go ahead ;)16:01
lcuk"helping to ensure multitouch actually bloody works"16:01
crashanddieerr, Jaffa, go ahead16:01
TreibholzIf a company would ask that seriously, I wouldn't want to work there, either...16:01
crashanddielcuk, safe for work?16:01
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Jaffacrashanddie: Yeah, spotted that.16:01
lcukcrashanddie, yes16:01
crashanddieTreibholz, depends, if she's really hot or not...16:01
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lcukcrashanddie, one of the HP guys at the meego conf actually went digging and found the user reports which matched16:02
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lcukits a nown issue for every large panel MT display I have tried16:02
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lcukknown *16:02
Treibholz lol16:03
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Treibholz"Meego was canceled halfway through its first season."16:03
crashanddielcuk, lol...16:04
crashanddieTreibholz, I think you'll find me and khertan laughing about that about 20 minutes after the MeeGo announced a year ago... :)16:04
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Treibholzcrashanddie: Yes, I somehow knew, it was old for you....16:05
lcukcrashanddie, sampling rate and aliasing effects - its cured by increasing the read rate16:06
lcukthis meego ideapad does not have problem that I can see :)16:06
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Treibholzlcuk: I did't get wifi to work on mine..16:06
lcukTreibholz, on your what?16:07
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Treibholzlcuk: IdeaPad S10e16:08
lcukthat is odd indeed, are you sure you enabled the wifi switch o nthe side of it o_O16:09
lcukon the *16:09
timeless_officetreibholz: yeah, i was rather depressed when i first heard the name choice16:09
timeless_officeand for once, the blame doesn't lie w/ the Finn16:09
Treibholzlcuk: it works perfectly with Windows, Debian, and MacOS X16:09
timeless_officethe Intel guy should have done the research against americana16:09
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Treibholzbtw.: is the sqlite-database of the callendar of Meego HX like the one in meamo?16:10
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markinfowill be this   a solution to get powerfull smartphone?16:17
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markinfothere is a video about using Ubuntu on HTC.  working with firefox seems to be quite fast. Much faser than on nokia n900.16:18
jonwilthe HD2 is not that good by todays standards16:18
jonwilplus its not sold anymore16:18
jonwilNow Ubuntu on the HD7 on the other hand, THAT might be interesting16:18
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markinfoHD7 is not on the list:   (maybe yet?)16:19
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jonwilI think no-one has a way to run alternative OSs on Windows Phone handsets yet16:21
jonwildue to all the lockdown16:21
markinfofor android Phones is it easysier?16:22
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TreibholzI was a little bit shocked, when I tried NITdroid, how fast it was.16:24
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markinfoTreibholz, do you have still NITroid on your Nokia?16:26
luke-jrjonwil: nor Android phones last I checked16:26
jonwilCustom kernels can run on a bunch of Android phones16:26
jonwilincluding the Desire Z16:26
jonwiland Desire HD16:26
jonwiland if you can run a custom kernel, that's all you need for a real linux setup16:27
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Treibholzmarkinfo: not really. I still have the MicroSD-card, but when you run it from a MicroSD, the OS is often slow.16:28
Treibholzbut it's much, much faster than meego16:28
luke-jrjonwil: custom *Linux* kernels?16:28
luke-jror just Android kernels?16:28
jonwilwell they can completly replace the binary16:28
jonwiland the rootfs16:29
luke-jrjonwil: with what?16:29
jonwilI dont see any real difference between a linux kernel and an android kernel if you port over the right hardware drivers16:29
markinfoTreibholz, it would be interessting if for example this video in html5   would be playable on ot.16:29
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markinfothe whole firefox mobile is too slow on nokia n900.16:30
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ccookemarkinfo: it's too slow on everything I've tried it on. It was too slow on an overclocked n900. It's too slow on the overclocked desire Z I'm currently using.16:31
Treibholzmarkinfo: here on my desktop, Flash uses less CPU than "native" HTML5-videos in FF4b16:31
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TreibholzI don't know how they get it so slow...16:32
Treibholzmaybe the decoder is in JavaScript...16:32
markinfohm - adobe flash uses probably some hardware acceleration.16:32
derfSo does Firefox, but it's disabled on a lot of systems due to driver crashes.16:33
markinfobut only to scroll text - it freezes sometimes seconds ....16:33
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markinfois there some software that shows in menu CPU utilization?16:35
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ccookemarkinfo: well, top will do it, from the terminal... :-)16:37
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ccooke(IIRC there's an applet for it, yeah)16:38
markinfomaybe Firefox is slow - but there is no other browser today that supports html5 so good. Or?16:39
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ccookemarkinfo: depends who you talk to, really16:40
lcukTreibholz, it is EASY to make software run slowly16:41
lcukany developer can clog up the cpu of even the fastest machine16:41
derfThe decoder is about the only part that's actually fast.16:42
lcukhowever, it takes a delicate fine highly skilled developer to make a cpu purr :)16:42
derfIt's everything that happens after decoding before it gets on the screen that's slow.16:42
lcukderf - it is decoded to a backbuffer and then the buffer is painted to the screen with scaling (at least that is what happens when you use +- keys16:43
markinfohm - even on my desktop dual core 1.8GHz takes this html5 video from youtube nearly 50% of CPU.16:43
derflcuk: If only it were that simple.16:43
lcuksoftware bitmap scaling (if including AA) is something that is heavy for the cpu16:43
derfmarkinfo: Are you trying to play the 720p version?16:43
derfThat's... pretty ridiculous.16:44
derfWhat OS is your desktop running?16:44
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markinfoXFCE on debian squeeze. Interesting - if the video Window ist hided - for example page is scrolled down it falls to nearly to zero CPU even the video is playing further.16:46
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derfWhat happens if you run Firefox with MOZ_GLX_IGNORE_BLACKLIST=1 ?16:47
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markinfoderf, how to do that?  Starts firefox with this parameter?16:48
derfType export MOZ_GLX_IGNORE_BLACKLIST=116:49
derfThen run Firefox.16:49
MohammadAGor MOZ_GLX_IGNORE_BLACKLIST=1 firefox16:49
derf(from the same shell)16:49
derfYes, that works, too.16:49
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Treibholzmakes no difference on my Core-i5-notebook here16:52
markinfoit seems to be the same.16:52
derfAre you sure you completely closed the browser first?16:53
markinfobut glxgears makes: 8736 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1747.072 FPS16:53
lcukmarwhen glxgears adds a webbrowser component it can be used as a fair comparison16:54
lcukmarkinfo, when*16:54
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nid0what, it was only time before motion-sensing tech started getting used for adult games :P16:58
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Venemoalterego: ping17:16
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: there's already per-contact-ringtones as by barisione17:59
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Indeed. I was going to point that out to jonwil but couldn't be arsed to do the Googling18:00
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sssupanyone der ?19:10
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sssupanyone who is into hacing19:10
crashanddieDefine: "hacking".19:11
sssupwelll i just wanttto get the password of sm one anyone can help me in tht19:11
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lardmansssup: whose password are you trying to get?19:12
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unixSnobif you want their NIT password, you'll have to install video surveillance19:25
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* alterego sighs19:29
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celestehwhen my n900 logs in to facebook chat, does it report it's user agent as opera on winxp?19:30
sivangcelesteh: no19:30
unixSnobThis command launches a browser window, but not the webpage; what am i doing wrong?  => /usr/bin/browser www.maemo.org19:30
sivangcelesteh: MicroB on linux would be my bet19:30
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JaffaunixSnob: You have to use DBus19:31
MohammadAGbrowser launches another engine19:31
celestehsivang: facebook keeps telling me that somebody is logging in on opera on winxp and their locations seem to match mine, so i thought it might be my phone19:31
sivanganybody know why after upgrading last night, I get antoher upgrade offer and when I check the status it says 'broken but upgradeable' ?19:31
unixSnobJaffa: i know the DBus command.. but I read somewhere that it can be launched19:31
sivangcelesteh: I would be very surprised if this is the case.19:31
MohammadAGunixSnob, you're spawning another instance of the browser = wasting memory19:31
sivanghey MohammadAG19:32
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sivangMohammadAG: you have any idea about this upgrade issue? it seems that qt sensors lib is missing also due to this.19:32
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unixSnobMohammadAG: actually, this is for cases where I want the first instance19:32
sivang/usr/local/bin/qtbubblelevel: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory19:32
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* MohammadAG pokes achipa 19:32
sivangFinished running remote process.19:32
MohammadAGapt-get install libqtm-sensors19:32
JaffaunixSnob: It can be launched using dbus on the command line19:33
unixSnobgot my answer, i think => browser --url=http://www.maemo.org19:33
celestehsivang: hmmm, this is annoying / alarming19:33
sivangMohammadAG: hrm, I guess it won't help saying this should have happened by itself with the upgrade? :)19:33
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sivangMohammadAG: 'user platform etc etc' ;)19:33
MohammadAGprobably doesn't depend on it for some reason19:33
MohammadAGon that note19:33
* sivang wonders what the hell happened to the firmware upgrade19:33
MohammadAGachipa, libqtm-12 doesn't depend on libqtm-12-connectivity19:34
sivangwhat should be the reported version fot latest upgrade if I am not using CSSU?19:34
MohammadAGnot a big issue though19:34
MohammadAG20.2010.36-2 whether you're using the CSSU or not19:34
sivangcelesteh: sorry dude, wish I could help. Google identifies me as N900 / MicroB (gecko) etc19:34
MohammadAGthe CSSU uses that number + maemoXX19:34
sivangah okay, cool19:35
sivanglike a downstrream upgrade19:35
celestehsivang: is there a way i can use google to find out what the chat agent signs in as?19:35
unixSnobJaffa: i just verified the --url switch and it works... but out of curiousity, whats the dbus command if you don't have a browser running yet?  Presumably it's different than the regular command19:35
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sivangMohammadAG: so this is my version, and still it tells me to upgrade when I use holdon app manager to 'update'19:35
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sivangMohammadAG: ah okay, something got screwed. I am not on that version. Before the upgrade reboot it said I am on that version.19:37
* sivang wonders if to try and upgrade again19:37
sivangcelesteh: well, you can use a page to do this. There are tons on the internet19:38
celestehsivang: yeah, but it's not the browser, it's the chat client that i think is identifying this way19:39
lardmanlol @ work's message re lack of email: /me wonders if a sink hole opened up under the server farm19:40
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unixSnobthis fails to launch => ssh user@ /usr/bin/dbus-send --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/osso_browser/request string:http://www.maemo.org19:42
unixSnoband replacing "--system" with "--session" is worse.. gets an error about libraries being wrongly setup19:43
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jacekowskiunixSnob: if browser isn't running you can't start it with dbus19:45
slonopotamus... and if it IS running already, you don't need to start it :D19:46
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unixSnobjacekowski: okay.. Jaffa was saying otherwise19:46
jacekowskithen it should take same command19:47
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unixSnobjacekowski: what do you mean?19:48
slonopotamusunixSnob: you can't use --session because you're not in desktop session when logging in via ssh19:49
unixSnobslonopotamus: desktop session?  sounds like something I want to use.  Does that mean I can get the desktop in an x window?19:50
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slonopotamus_unixSnob: you can't use --session because you're not in desktop session when logging in via ssh19:51
slonopotamus_unixSnob: you need to google for reusing same dbus session19:51
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slonopotamus_unixSnob: makes sense?19:52
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unixSnobslonopotamus_: doesn't sound like what I'm after.  I thought for a minute there that dbus could be used to launch a new browser window19:54
unixSnobno big deal.. i'll just use browser --url when I want to launch a window19:55
slonopotamus_unixSnob: it can be used (it works when run from gui terminal)19:56
jhanelyHey guys.  I'm trying to build a custom kernel for my n810.  I have started with the n8x0_defconfig, but when booting it just shows the Nokia splash screen for about a minute, and then powers off.  I have tried to enable the fb console, but... either I'm doing it wrong, or the kernel isn't booting far enough to initialize the console.  Anybody have any tips, or a known-good .config file I could start from?19:56
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slonopotamus_jhanely: you want omap2420_defconfig19:57
jhanelyAh, thank you.19:57
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sivangMohammadAG: CSSU are not enabled by default right?19:59
sivangMohammadAG: I just got paranoid thinking they are enabled by default. Excuse me :)19:59
Jaffa"Enabled by default"?20:00
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lolcatMaking the cable for usb hostemode is difficult20:11
jacekowskinot really20:14
jacekowskiall you need is a gender bender20:14
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jhanelySlonopotamus: I did not find an omap2420_defconfig, though I did find an omap_generic_2420_defconfig.  Building from that, I still can't even tell if the kernel is starting at all.  It sits on the Nokia screen for a moment, and then powers off.  Do you know of any way to get output from the bootloader or something?20:25
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jhanelyI have lots of experience configuring and building kernels, but very little with embedded devices.20:26
MohammadAGrx51_defconfig for the N90020:26
jhanelyI'm trying to build for the n810.20:26
MohammadAGoh, rx44 maybe? idk20:27
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jhanelyNo luck there.20:38
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DocScrutinizerN8x0_defconfig sounds just fine to me (noob speaking here)20:43
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DocScrutinizerjhanely: unlike N900, the N8x0 devices use initrd20:44
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jhanelyYeah, it does.  For getting started though, as long as I can get the basic stuff built in that shouldn't matter.  Or so I believe.20:45
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jhanelyAt this point, I'm really just looking for any indication that my kernel is booting at all.  Mounting root and/or initfs can be dealt with once I get that far.20:46
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DocScrutinizerfor all I know initrd has to match kernel, otherwise it will stall20:48
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jhanelyYes, if you need to load any modules before root is mounted, they have to come from initrd.  And they have to match the kernel.20:48
javispedroand there's not much space left in the n8x0 initrd partition20:49
jhanelyIndeed not.  2mb for the kernel image, and I'm not sure how much for the initrd.20:49
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jhanelyI can easily fit the fb console related drivers in the kernel though, and still fit in 2mb.  So if the kernel is starting up, I should be able to see some output.20:50
MohammadAGJaffa, javispedro
MohammadAGjavispedro, it doesn't kill the stock dialog (yet), it simply pops over it20:51
DocScrutinizerjhanely: I'm not sure about fb console support in N8x0 kernel20:51
DocScrutinizermaybe javispedro knows better details20:51
javispedroI know it exists =)20:52
javispedrobut never used it.20:52
DocScrutinizerodds are it never did20:52
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jhanelyLuke-jr's kernel (at has fb console support.20:52
javispedrowell I don't see why not, on N810 x11 actually enters much late in the picture20:52
jhanelyAnd I can get that one to boot.20:52
DocScrutinizerhmm, ok20:52
jhanelyThat's what led me here - I posted a reply asking for his config, and he suggested I log on here.20:52
javispedroluke-jr: ^^20:53
javispedro(he might be here later today, or not...)20:53
jhanelyHe's in the list now, though apparently not active.20:53
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javispedrojhanely: which toolchain do you use to build?20:54
divanDoes someone know how debian/optify file works? Any documentation on this? I put 'auto' to this file but seems the package created by dpkg-buildpackage isn't optified20:55
javispedrodivan: only autobuilder will take care of that file20:55
javispedrodivan: on your host do "fakeroot maemo-optify-deb <package_etc_etc.deb>"20:55
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javispedroalterego: there?20:57
divanjavispedro, thanks, it works. So it's supposed to do run each time I rebuild by deb? Or is there any way to make it part of deb build process?20:57
jhanelyI'm building with armv6j-unknown-linux-gnueabi.20:57
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RST38hmoo javispedro20:57
javispedrodivan: there was a maemo-buildpackage somewhere, but I don't remember where =)20:58
divanjavispedro, ok, thanks.20:58
javispedrojhanely: I have no idea if luke-jr did, but I suggest you use codesourcery2005 (aka the one that comes with the Diablo SDK). All kernels I've built I used that.20:58
javispedromoo RST38h20:58
javispedroRST38h: saw today's slashdot article about maemo?20:59
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divanI'll update wiki page cause it mention on creating debian/optify file, but not running maemo-optify.21:00
javispedrodivan: you do not need to run it if you plan to send the app to Extras.21:01
divanjavispedro, ohh, clear! Thanks again )21:01
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MohammadAGjavispedro, mind trying it out :)21:02
Jartzahas anyone done qt-programs for n800? :)21:02
RST38hjavispedro: no, were they gloating?21:02
Jartzaam I doing something wrong as the window doesn't look correctly "hildonized"?21:02
javispedroRST38h: I'm still at it,
javispedroJartza: you're missing ""?21:02
Jartzameaning, the lower right part of the window is missing the "theme pieces": rounded window corner etc.21:02
Jartzajavispedro: no I'm not21:02
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JartzaI thought if using QMainWindow, the application should be "Hildonized"21:03
Jartzaoh wait21:04
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Jartzait also happens with other qt-applications21:04
Jartzahmm. bug in qt library itself?21:04
MohammadAGI thought that only applies to Qt 4.621:04
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JartzaMohammadAG: the bug, or qmainwindow? :)21:05
javispedroJartza: I don't remember that happening with the Sudoku sample application21:05
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Jartzabut 4.5 is the latest "official" for n80021:06
Jartzaor atleast it was the one that was easiest to find :)21:07
MohammadAGI might be wrong, never had an N80021:07
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divanMohammadAG, I've tried slide2answer as well. The default Answer window appears and in a few seconds your slide window opens (with rotation). Sliding works though )21:07
MohammadAGdivan, yeah, race conditions, it's intentional till I find a way to kill the stock dialog21:08
Jartzawell. it doesn't really affect the application usage though, it's just annoying.21:08
javispedroI just noticed that the sample sudoku aplication does not have hildon rounded lower coners :(21:08
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MohammadAGQTimer::singleShot(500, this, SLOT(show()));21:08
JartzaI just wanted the application to look perfect like other maemo-apps :)21:08
Jartzajavispedro: so it's a bug. using 4.5 or 4.6?21:09
JartzaI found that there is a 4.6 also, but I think not official21:09
javispedroJartza: 4.5.221:09
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divanMohammadAG, nice idea anyway ) I always afraid of pressing 'Cancel' button on the way of taking out phone from the pocket on incoming ring.21:09
Jartzasame here21:09
MohammadAGdivan, it's still in very early stages, I want it to be instant as a first21:10
MohammadAGand of course, change the sliders to something more appealing21:10
Jartzaso the qt doesn't generate correct hildonwindow21:10
MohammadAGwhen I figure out QPropertyAnimation21:10
divanMohammadAG, yeah, sure. Which process starts stock dialog?21:11
MohammadAGI need to kill the window itself using XUnmapWindow, javispedro really helped a lot here21:11
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* sivang wonders if we are talking about fixing the accidental take call issue with rtcom-call-ui21:11
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sivanganybody knows why would latest offical NOkia update fails to install?21:11
MohammadAGbut I have no idea how to find the window id of the rtcom-call-ui using C++21:12
MohammadAGor C, doesn't matter21:12
javispedroMohammadAG: it's kind of a black art, specially considering it seems you also have to guess when it appears.21:12
sivangafter the update I still have 10.2010.19-121:12
javispedroif you knew it was there you just query the X11 window tree and, well, search for it...21:12
divanMohammadAG, can we in some way just 'unsubscribe' this CallUI from getting DBus event?21:12
Jartzawell... annoying, but maybe not that fatal21:12
MohammadAGjavispedro, we can monitor X I guess21:13
sivangJartza: do you know if the script you foun for swappiness tweaks is good as Swapolube ?21:13
DocScrutinizertweak gtk theme, to change appearance of dialer buttons21:13
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, that won't change signals21:13
DocScrutinizeruhih, why?21:13
MohammadAGcause clicked() on a button isn't the same as valueChanged(int) on a slider21:14
MohammadAGidk what gtk uses for the signal names, but you get the idea, I hope21:14
MohammadAGdivan, I highly suggest we don't, call handling after answering is still handled by that21:14
DocScrutinizerwtf, I didn't say use slider, I said change the way BUTTON works21:14
MohammadAGso you want to change the library21:15
Jartzasivang: not sure at all21:15
MohammadAGand how would that not break all other buttons?21:15
MohammadAGi.e dialer buttons21:15
DocScrutinizerby applying that theme to dialer only21:15
MohammadAGthe dialer buttons are part of the same binary21:15
DocScrutinizerby checking what other properties the button has, eg text.value21:16
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divanMohammadAG, maybe worth research this way.. Disable callUI from getting signal, show own UI, and resend Answer event on slide.21:16
Venemohey guys21:16
Venemowhat's up?21:16
MohammadAGdivan, killing the window's easier, a lot easier21:16
MohammadAGI wonder if X sends a signal when a window's mapped21:17
sivanghey Venemo21:17
MohammadAGhi Venemo21:17
DocScrutinizerif button.text == "ACCEPT" or button.text == "REJECT" then change_appearance_to_slider21:17
sivangVenemo: may be you know something about a pr1.3 that seems to be installing but after reboot reported version is still the previous one.21:17
sivangVenemo: ? :)21:17
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: if self.text == "ACCEPT" or self.text == "REJECT" then change_appearance_to_slider21:18
sivangdivan: I like this. we can try and unsub callui from dbus through the server21:19
sivangdivan: kill it's subscrition or service file..21:19
sivangdivan: thing is, how will rtcomm-call react when it loses dbus subscription..21:19
divansivang, how it reacts?21:20
merlin_N900trial and error?21:20
sivangdivan: yes, it might do stupid thing like reboot the device or so , who knows..21:20
sivangdivan: maemo has an interesting notion of 'vital' stuff.21:20
sivangmerlin_N900: yes, that would be the way.21:21
* SpeedEvil wants a thingy that pops up the unlock screen when there is an orientation change, the prox sensor goes on->off, and there is light.21:21
sivangso we need to kill its sbscription, and then disallow it from connecting (i forgot how that's done)21:21
sivangSpeedEvil: ohh slick21:21
divanworth to try. Killing X window looks too hackish for me. I believe killing window will cause auto call cancellation.21:22
* sivang searches the wiki for pr1.3 issues21:22
MohammadAGdivan, no21:22
MohammadAGalready tried it21:22
DocScrutinizerdivan: the whole thing is WAY TOO hackish21:22
SpeedEvilOh - that reminds me of a brosrr issue.21:22
sivangdivan: they are seperate21:22
SpeedEvilListen to music.21:22
MohammadAGand changing gtk libraries isn't?21:22
SpeedEvilSwitch to browser.21:22
divanOke )21:22
SpeedEvilLock screen21:22
sivangdivan: e.g. in process and archi21:22
MohammadAGall approaches are hackish, till they open source the dialer21:22
SpeedEvilUse volume buttons to change volume - nothing happens.21:23
sivangMohammadAG: +1 to try and kill it's dbus subscription, make it unauthorized to subscribe and sub our own process21:23
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: actually tweaking GTK theme isn't21:23
DocScrutinizerit's perfectly inside what GTK is meant to do21:23
MohammadAGsivang, there's a risk you'll break call handling21:24
sivangSpeedEvil: it is for zooming :)21:24
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm not a gtk expert, feel free to do it21:24
DocScrutinizerwell, except maybe the check for self.test21:24
* sivang curses pr1.321:24
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DocScrutinizerfrankly, nobody here is expert for dialer<->telepathy/telephonystack communication either, so I don't see the fundamental difference21:25
SpeedEvilsivang: yes - but with the screen locked - the user clearly does not want to zoom21:26
MohammadAGI'm not cloning telepathy handling DocScrutinizer21:26
DocScrutinizerand when I hear "killing X windows" and "  try and unsub callui from dbus through the server" - sorry I get goosepimples and start to shudder21:26
MohammadAGI'm only redoing the answer dialog, when you answer, it's handled over to rtcom-call-ui21:27
MohammadAGthen don't use it DocScrutinizer21:27
MohammadAGwe had the discussion yesterday, let's not do it again21:27
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DocScrutinizeryour rationale is as wrong as the overclocking-app devels' - "I insist in coding broken-by-design potentially dangerous (911 calls) BS, don't use it if you don't like"21:28
sivangSpeedEvil: right21:29
sivangMohammadAG: We can at least try21:29
MohammadAGumm, wtf are you talking about21:29
sivangMohammadAG: just to see what happens21:29
MohammadAGthis doesn't stop 911 calls21:29
alteregojavispedro: ?21:29
alteregonot for long though21:30
MohammadAGthis doesn't kill rtcom-call-ui21:30
MohammadAGthis only changes the answer dialog21:30
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ooh it doesn't??? what's going to happen when you are at a 911 call and a inbound concurrent call is knocking? what's going to happen when slider-dialog pops up over the current established call dialog, and then you kill X? are you really sure it's a brilliant idea to mess around with communication between call-ui and telepathy, just to change look of a button?21:32
javispedroalterego: yeah I'm getting a call atm so I'm busy too, we'll talk later21:32
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, go read the code before arguing on BS facts21:33
alteregojavispedro: okay, I'll ping you again when I'm free.21:33
MohammadAGand stop spreading crap21:33
MohammadAGwhere did I say I was killing X, or telepathy, or rtcom-call-ui21:33
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: go learn system design fundamentials before corecting me on BS assumptions of yours21:33
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MohammadAGsystem design fundamentals assume the phone app is open source, your argument is invalid21:34
DocScrutinizeryour argument is21:35
DocScrutinizerand everybody can see that21:35
jacekowskiwhat is the argument21:35
jacekowskinobody calls 91121:35
* Sc0rpius senses some kind of tension in this channel21:35
jacekowskinobody cares21:35
MohammadAGnobody's fucking with 911, see? you're spreading BS DocScrutinizer21:35
jacekowskiand 911 doesn't even work here21:35
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MohammadAGanyway, to answer your question21:36
MohammadAGwhat's going to happen when slider-dialog pops up over the current established call dialog21:36
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: stfu, why are you adding to the BS spead here?21:36
jacekowskiit's 112 in europe21:36
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: for lulz21:36
MohammadAGyou either answer, or reject, it's not rocket science21:36
MohammadAGand if you answer, you're sent back to rtcom-call-ui by rtcom-call-ui21:36
MohammadAGno one's killing X21:37
DocScrutinizer"it's not rocket science" said the inventor of the rocket chair, prior to blasting himself to pieces21:37
RST38ha proofpic?21:38
jacekowskiwhat are you trying to do21:38
MohammadAGI'm not making a rocket chair, that's not rocket science either :)21:38
* dm8tbr prefers rocket-surgery21:38
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MohammadAGjacekowski, I'm not trying to,
DocScrutinizerno, you are coding a text editor by adding custom functions to spreadsheet cells, so each cell holds one of your chars21:39
jacekowskiMohammadAG: what are these sliders doing?21:40
MohammadAGjacekowski, slide to answer and slide to reject21:40
MohammadAGwhat every resistive touchscreen phone has21:40
jacekowskimake it a one slider21:40
jacekowskibut well, i don't see a problem there21:41
DocScrutinizerthat's what some dude actually did, as only thing he knew was spreadsheet (actually excel). Same here, you don't know GTK so you're implementing an abomination of overwhelming comlexity and unknown side effects, to do something that could be done in a straight and easy to evaluate way by just using the right tools21:41
MohammadAGjacekowski, design is still a concept21:41
javispedrohm... what's going on here?21:41
jacekowskii don't see anything it could mess up21:41
jacekowskithat would be life critical21:41
Sc0rpiuswhat's the straight and easy way?21:41
jacekowskiunless you consider a lost call life critical thing21:42
jacekowskibut then you shouldn't be using mobile phone in first place21:42
MohammadAGit won't lose you a call21:42
Sc0rpiusI could disassemble the code and fix the button but that would be illegal21:42
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MohammadAGI don't want to patch anything21:42
MohammadAGotherwise I'll just change hildon-desktop and get rid of the HILDON_STACKING_LAYER bit that javispedro found21:43
javispedroso I'll describe the problem at hand: csd or someone else (MohammadAG could say) emits a d-bus signal, rtcom-call-ui catches it and after N cycles shows a window. This window has a X11 property that causes h-d to pin it on top21:43
Sc0rpiusI don't even know what the problem is actually21:43
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: it could mess with established calls for example, when a second call comes in. Just occurs to me after 10s of thinking21:43
MohammadAGcsd, yes21:43
javispedroMohammadAG wants to replace the window with his own, in order to X stuff21:43
divanSc0rpius, the problem is we need to kill stock Answer dialog.21:43
MohammadAGjavispedro, I can show on top of it21:43
MohammadAGbut I'd need to know when it's created21:43
MohammadAGthe stock dialog lags, a LOT21:44
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i don't have call waiting21:44
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: just becuase you don't see anything doesn't mean it's proven to not be there21:44
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i don't see a problem21:44
MohammadAGmy dialog shows before it21:44
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: so you are free to use this abomination21:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it can answer a second call21:44
MohammadAGagain, don't spread BS before reading code21:44
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jacekowskiwhy don't you just replace stock dialog with your own21:45
MohammadAGisn't that what I want to do?21:45
jacekowskithat shouldn't be hard to call couple functions in context of stock dialer21:45
javispedrojacekowski: rtcomm-call-ui is closed aiui.21:46
MohammadAGjavispedro, that doesn't stop him21:46
jacekowskibut you can attach to it with ptrace21:46
MohammadAGremember his fmtxd21:46
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: if you dare to once more aout your shit, you'll have to live with the consequences. I'm not spreading BS, you do. I'm not oblighed to read your abomination sourcecode to state obvious things here that are RIGHT just BECAUSE they don't relate to any sourcecode21:46
MohammadAGif you don't want to read code, stfu21:46
MohammadAGit's not even killing anything right now21:46
jacekowskikill it with a fire21:47
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javispedroso the discussion here is which option is most hackish: hacking Gtk+ theme to emulate "HildonButton"'s signals and behaviours while showing a GtkSlider, creating an app that listens to signals and hides the stock window, or patching the rtcomm-call-ui binary?21:47
dima202liquid nitrogen21:47
MohammadAGscratch the last option javispedro21:48
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you are acting like a stubborn child. I refuse to argue any further with you. I tried to teach you something, but you insist in knowing everything and don't need any good advice, while praising your soure like the holy book. I'm fed up with that21:48
javispedros/patching/intercepting gtk+ calls with ptrace in the/21:48
infobotjavispedro meant: so the discussion here is which option is most hackish: hacking Gtk+ theme to emulate "HildonButton"'s signals and behaviours while showing a GtkSlider, creating an app that listens to signals and hides the stock window, or intercepting gtk+ calls with pt...21:48
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MohammadAGI'm acting like a child?21:48
jacekowskiwell, rtcomm-call-ui if we want to support only voice calls should be simple to hack21:48
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MohammadAG<MohammadAG> we had the discussion yesterday, let's not do it again21:48
MohammadAGyou continued to spread bs21:48
MohammadAGyou have no off switch, you continue to argue till ignored21:49
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javispedromaybe we'd need to build a patched dbus to be able to "intercept" signals =)21:50
MohammadAGbut why :/21:51
jacekowskiwe could use LD_PRELOAD21:52
* Sc0rpius still doesn't know what the problem is21:52
MohammadAGthat's what Doc's suggesting21:52
javispedroMohammadAG: while I disagree with DocScrutinizer in that it will cause children to die and 911 calls to be missed, the current code would have to continually poll the X11 tree after the signal is emitted looking for the (unfortunately not very specific) rtcomm-call-ui window21:52
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javispedroand polling sucks. not to mention.21:52
Sc0rpiusyeah battery life21:53
javispedroer... not to mention the potential for race conditions.21:53
Sc0rpiuswill be reduced21:53
jacekowskiyou can fix that later on21:53
MohammadAGSc0rpius, for 5s of "Incoming call" time?21:53
jacekowskiwith simple ld_preload hack21:53
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javispedroSc0rpius: not very worried about that, more about that it will introduce CPU time at a moment where the system is already taxed (incoming call)21:53
Sc0rpiusthat too21:53
Sc0rpiusbut what I really wonder is, what the objective is, what button bothers you21:54
javispedroSc0rpius: read above. this is a "slide to answer" project.21:54
MohammadAGI agree about the cpu thing21:54
lirakisi wonder if n900's are being sold in droves on ebay ... /me goes to check21:54
Sc0rpiusslide what, the keyboard?21:55
MohammadAGno, a slider21:55
Sc0rpiuslike the one you slide when you press the power button?21:55
javispedroSc0rpius: yep.21:56
Sc0rpiusto unlock the phone21:56
Sc0rpiusand why would anyone would want that? pressing the answer button is easier21:56
javispedrowhile I'm already used to it, one of the first complains in wild usage of the N900 is accidental call answers21:56
Sc0rpiusI mean what's the motivation21:56
lirakisits too bad the n810 doesnt have microphone and speaker positioned so it could be used as a SIP handset21:57
lirakisthat would make it a useful piece of technology still21:58
Mouseyi kinda liked it for taht =(21:58
Mouseyi wish i could get another one =(21:58
lirakisone what ? n810?21:58
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javispedroMohammadAG: maybe hit -devel, and see if anyone has an idea for overriding the UI. Otherwise...21:59
lirakisi like the n810 hardware way better than the n90021:59
lirakisbut ... it cant be used as a phone21:59
lirakisthats annoying21:59
lirakisb/c if it could .. id still use it21:59
MohammadAGjavispedro, I'm not killing the stock dialog21:59
lirakis.. just another failure of insight by nokia21:59
MohammadAGso it's a race21:59
lirakislets give it a sip stack ... but not make the hardware usable as a handset21:59
javispedroMohammadAG: yeah, but that makes it unusable I guess, with half the calls getting slider and the other half don't =)22:00
lirakisclassic nokia22:00
sivangI think I got it. The version meta package fails to install as the upgrade does not automaticlalyl installs all the qt deps22:00
MohammadAGjavispedro, again, I hope no idea how to get the Id in C22:00
* javispedro ponders why I have a .txt in my $HOME that says "Please insert the BeOS Boot CD to continue". I guess I need to cleanup more often..22:00
* sivang tries installing the qt deps by hand through HAM22:00
Sc0rpiuswhat I would do is22:01
sivangjavispedro: how did you get this? :)22:01
Sc0rpiusget the telepathy-ring source code from MeeGo22:01
Sc0rpiusmodify it to Maemo and replace the closed one22:01
sivanganybody idea if my assumption could be truie? has this happened to someone else already ?22:01
Sc0rpiusmodify the dbus call22:01
Sc0rpiusand make your own answer dialog.22:01
Sc0rpiusthat's what I would do22:01
Mouseyi never wanted to use the n810 as a phone, and as a tablet it was phenominal. now it's dead22:01
Sc0rpiustelepathy-ring is open in MeeGo already as far as I know22:01
sivangI mean, it gave this window stlye 'updating' in 'text mode' with the Nokia logo on FB22:02
javispedroSc0rpius <-- cpt. obvious =) however, that is WAY of a larger project.22:02
sivang(after reboot)22:02
sivangand ten it rebooted again and went up.22:02
Mouseyand the speakers were amazing22:02
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Sc0rpiusyou think it's larger?22:03
javispedroSc0rpius: meego uses ofono, maemo doesn't22:03
Sc0rpiushmm right.22:04
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javispedroso you then have to pull meego, you have to pull the complete meego dialer ui, you have to pull half of meego, and you've just reinvented cordia.22:04
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Sc0rpiusthen send an email to somebody in Nokia requesting to open telepathy-ring because "It's opened in MeeGo anyway" hehehe22:05
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Sc0rpiusso Ofono instead of CSD...22:09
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alteregoofono works on maemo22:13
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alteregoAt least, it has worked22:13
alteregoAnyway, bbl22:13
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Macerhm. my damn n900 seems on the frits22:31
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DocScrutinizerSc0rpius: that's exactly what johnwil's wiki update and jaffa's initiative is all about22:37
Sc0rpiusactually reading the telepathy-ring thing seems to be very well layered22:38
Sc0rpiuspeople would only need to change the "modem" source directory that interacts with ophone and rewrite that layer for CSD22:38
Sc0rpiusI'm not sure if it's a LARGE project like javispedro says... I would have to research and read code a little more22:39
DocScrutinizerSc0rpius: though even then we don't have a significant part of all the knowledge needed on how to handle niche cases on dialer-ui, so a foss replacement will still be a poor crappy PoC at best22:39
Sc0rpiusI meant with "ofono"22:39
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KevinBnite guys22:41
npmwhat's the recommended way to record video on n900/maemo?22:41
KevinBsomeone the height of the screen without the default hildon topbar22:42
KevinBin px?22:42
MohammadAG55 afaik22:42
KevinBallright thanks :)22:42
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divannpm, do you mean code for recording video or what?22:46
Sc0rpiusactually I even like the idea to replace closed apps with opened apps that look the same22:48
Sc0rpiusall the call management is terrible22:49
Sc0rpiustake another phone or your landline and call right now to your N900 you will see:22:49
Sc0rpius1.- The screen lights up without you even touching it22:49
Sc0rpius2.- Like 2 seconds later you can see the actual incoming call dialog22:49
Sc0rpius3.- You already have heard a ring in your landline/other phone and thought "the receiver hasn't seen the call yet"22:50
Sc0rpiusall that crap has to change22:50
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npmdivan: for code i can use a qtmobility example... i was looking for an example of a working app. (i recently thought i could shoot video w/ the n900 and when i tried the various camer apps i'd installed, none did video)22:58
RST38hDocScrutinizer: Who are our current Qt gurus? (sans Python)22:58
npmRST38h: the fact that i'm stuck at  "Warning: [Main]: QSqlDatabase: QSQLITE driver not loaded" means i'm not a guru....22:59
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npm(not on maemo but meego-lem)23:00
RST38hnpm: No need to interject then.23:00
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RST38h...when Chinese supercomputers shun American-made x64 processors and GPU co-processors and start using their own energy-efficient, MIPS-derived, x86-emulating Godson line of 64-bit processors...23:41
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RST38hMIPS-derived. Heh.23:42
Maceroh well. guess there is a tablet-encode mencoder wrapper23:43
Macerthat's awesome23:43
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javispedroMIPS. sigh.23:45
MohammadAGPSP! :p23:45
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