IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-02-02

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DocScrutinizeranyway I bet it's been skynet00:05
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DocScrutinizerOr Arnie himself, from an alternative future00:05
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DocScrutinizertbh if anything I believe it's been planned by George DoubleWho and his CIA - at least it seems he met Osama's oncle the day before00:13
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: according to some conspiracy theories, Osama doesn't even exist and was invented by the USA government00:15
DocScrutinizersounds as reasonable as the whole incident00:16
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DocScrutinizerin a metaphoric way it's probably true, I bet USA (CIA) supported and 'made' Osama like they support so many others, Saddam, Mubarak, etc etc00:18
rm_workyeah i'd believe it. sounds like something out of Eagle Eye or such00:18
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DocScrutinizeryou can place your bets on one thing: whenever USA is getting involved into international affairs, the sure as hell will find the worst option to follow00:21
VenemoDocScrutinizer: anyway, everyone knows they conquered Iraq for its oil fields00:22
BCMM"I bet USA (CIA) supported and 'made' Osama"? Not even controversial, the Afghan mujahideen were assisted by the US in opposing the occupying soviet forces00:22
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BCMM(i mean, that isn't even a debatable point)00:23
DocScrutinizeractually they did that because of Saddam Hussein, their protegee, wasn't controllable anymore00:23
BCMMit can't be proven that Bin Laden himself was armed or trained by US agents, but certainly most of the people around him will have been, and a lot of the weapons in Afghanistan came from the US during the soviet occupation00:24
DocScrutinizeryep, sure00:25
DocScrutinizerand it's hard to believe 9-11 wasn't thought out by some weird spin doctor in pentagon00:26
BCMMwatch Rambo III, it has become unintentionally bizarre00:26
BCMMit's a very patriotic American action film about supporting the mujahideen...00:27
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: they wouldn't have cared about Hussein if he hadn't had oil.00:28
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: <- the truth about 91100:28
pupnik_dancing israelis00:29
pupnik_basically jews have infiltrated the US defense dept00:29
pupnik_and they orchestrated the 9/11 drills00:30
pupnik_to coincide with the nutjob al-quaeda hijackings00:30
pupnik_so they wouldn't be stopped00:30
wmaronepupnik_: did they also tangle your christmas lights?00:30
pupnik_this is all proven00:30
pupnik_false flag shit00:30
wmaronedid they use chicken wire?00:31
pupnik_i'm a systems analyst00:31
DocScrutinizerBCMM: the tooltip comment is just to the point00:31
BCMMpupnik_: wouldn't it've been more unnoticeable if they did it while *not* dancing?00:31
pupnik_and you're a fucking idiot00:31
wmaroneyou also go off on odd rants and attack people in this channel at random00:31
pupnik_oh lol no the dumb fucks aren't gods BCMM00:31
pupnik_they are just arrogant00:31
pupnik_because you cunts will never believe they can do evil00:32
pupnik_hogans heroes00:32
pupnik_diary of anne frank00:32
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BCMMpupnik makes a lot more sense if you read it all in a the frantic voice of a high person00:32
wmaronepupnik_: perhaps if you didn't attack people and spew crap, people might listen (in places where it isn't horribly off topic)00:32
chxthere is a lot of disturbing information about 9/11 out there00:33
chxthat's for sure00:33
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wmaroneat least luke-jr has the decency to keep it in a seperate channel ;)00:33
chxok, ok.00:33
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wmaronenothing luke-jr00:33
DocScrutinizersorry, these insults start to get common with pubnik lately00:33
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BCMMi'm sure i had a maemo-related question...00:34
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BCMMremembered my maemo question: is Java on the n900 possible/sensible?00:49
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rm_worki thought there was a working JVM00:51
rm_worknever tried it myself tho, seemed to me like it would just be slow as #&*$00:51
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Sc0rpiusit's posible with Icesomething00:52
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esaym153anyone know where wireless passwords are stored at in diablo?01:26
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GNUtoo|laptopI've that:01:27
GNUtoo|laptop[   32.899627] UBI error: ubi_io_write: error -74 while writing 512 bytes to PEB 1451:512, written 512 bytes01:28
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GNUtoo|laptopwhen doing ubiattach -m 501:28
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GNUtoo|laptopI'll try flash_eraseall01:29
GNUtoo|laptopon /dev/mtd501:29
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GNUtoo|laptopand to flash the rootfs again01:29
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GNUtoo|laptopagain same message01:30
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GNUtoo|laptopDocScrutinizer, hi01:32
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GNUtoo|laptopis there someone arround that knows NAND?01:36
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VenemoGNUtoo|laptop: DocScrutinizer is your best bet01:41
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GNUtoo|laptopVenemo, ok thanks01:41
GNUtoo|laptopnandtest seem not to output any error tough01:42
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trumeeVenemo, any luck with bumping your sticky notes app to extras?01:43
Venemotrumee: huh. forgot about it completely01:44
Venemotrumee: what do I need to do to push it to Extras?01:44
trumeeVenemo, no idea. perhaps it has to go through testing first.01:44
GNUtoo|laptopI'm afraid of using --markbad01:45
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GNUtoo|laptopafter I would have to scrub nand01:45
GNUtoo|laptopand I can't01:45
GNUtoo|laptop(if there is an issue)01:45
VenemoGNUtoo|laptop: what are you doing exactly?01:45
GNUtoo|laptopI tried to flash an ubifs on mtd501:45
GNUtoo|laptopI don't remember exactly what I tried01:46
GNUtoo|laptop(the exact commands)01:46
GNUtoo|laptopbut now I've that error when:01:46
GNUtoo|laptop*flashing the maemo rootfs01:46
GNUtoo|laptopand mounting it after01:46
GNUtoo|laptopflashing output no error, only mounting01:46
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Venemotrumee: yes, but how?01:48
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trumeeVenemo, i dont have a clue. perhaps maemo wiki discusses it.01:51
Venemookay trumee, I'll see :)01:52
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villagerVenemo: I think you have to log on to with the email address you uploaded the package with, then you find your package, and there'll be a "promote" link that puts the package into testing01:53
villagerafterwards, if enough people vote it up, it gets into extras...01:54
GNUtoo|laptopI'll try -m01:54
Venemovillager: thanks! :)01:54
VenemoGNUtoo|laptop: I think the maemo flasher tool can correct it01:55
GNUtoo|laptopha ok01:55
GNUtoo|laptopI'll try tomorrow then01:55
villagerVenemo: and yes, I got that from instructions in the wiki...01:56
villagerthough I can't remember which page, I just followed it for my own packages...01:56
Venemovillager: :)01:56
Venemotrumee: okay, I promoted it to testing01:57
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GNUtoo|laptopflash_cp fails too01:58
GNUtoo|laptopI'll try the flasher01:58
Venemotrumee, villager: I have no idea where to vote for it though01:58
VenemoGNUtoo|laptop: just try flashing a regular PR image01:58
GNUtoo|laptopI'll need to boot a livecd for that01:58
trumeeVenemo, nice one. Now for some marketing/publicising in tmo.01:58
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Venemotrumee: um, this is embarassing. I don't know the URL where people can vote for it02:05
villagerVenemo: looks like such voting is done from the "Extras-testing QA queue", also linked from
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achipaVenemo: considering qtcreator is the 'glue' for the SDK I doubt that will get a positive response (a.k.a. confusing developers), but one can always hope...02:07
villagerit's really for testing though, not just voting...02:07
achipa(the biggest argument being that starting with 1.1 stable there won't be a need for separate installs)02:08
Venemovillager: it's been tested and proven many times. I was just lazy to promote02:10
Venemoachipa: at my record, I had 4 instances of Qt Creator installed02:10
achipaVenemo: heh, at some point while doing SDK verification I think I had about 6...02:10
villagerVenemo: well, the system is that once a version is moved into extras-testing, testers go and test it and "votes" up the karma if it passes their QA02:11
Venemoachipa: right now I'll only have 3. 1 from Qt SDK 1.1, 1 from MeeGo SDK, and the nightly I'm actually going to use02:11
Venemovillager: yes, I'm familiar with it02:11
villagerVenemo: does it already have enough karma, then?02:11
Venemovillager: -> where is the link to the voting page?02:11
achipaVenemo: that's extras-devel02:12
achipas/devel/testing/ :)02:12
villagerVenemo: it'll appear when the link to its presence in extras-testing appears... the db is probably not updated instantly, wait a couple of hours maybe02:13
Venemooh, okay then02:13
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achipaVenemo: well, meego is sdk is also going to merge into the Qt SDK (not in the 1.1 timeframe tho), so in the end, you'll have SDK + nightly02:14
achipas/meego is/meego's/ time to sleep, duh02:14
Venemoachipa: hehe02:15
Venemoachipa: yes, and the packaging issue is also going to be solved in a future stable release02:15
Venemoachipa: so it converges to 1 :)02:15
Venemoachipa: btw, please tell me that Qt Creator doesn't have this packaging mess with MeeGo02:16
achipaone sdk to rule them all, and in the ... errm... cloud... compile them ? :P02:16
achipaachipa: define packaging mess :)02:16
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Venemoachipa: I mean, it won't want to make rpms like it makes debs unnecessarily?02:17
achipait shouldn't... though this is target specific, so would depend on the meego deploy/publish path02:18
achipabut I assume that if the maemo target does it right, the meego one will use a similar mechanism02:18
Venemoachipa: mhm02:18
achipa(as the differences if you leave out deb/rpm from the picture, are in fact, minimal)02:19
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Venemoachipa: btw, did you know that text input is broken in PR 1.3?02:19
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achipaummm... no ? (which one) ?02:19
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Venemoachipa: I can't input capital letters of any Hungarian symbols :(02:20
Venemoachipa: (I made a keyboard remap)02:20
achipahungarian is broken by design :P02:20
Venemoachipa: it works in Gtk applications and it also worked in Qt apps in PR 1.202:20
Venemoachipa: so I can't input capital ÖÜÓŐÚÉÁŰÍ letters, only the non-capital ones02:21
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Venemoachipa: I mapped Fn key combos to the keys which don't have one by default02:21
Venemoachipa: I asked some Qt guys about a possible fix, but they said that this is not supported so I can go to hell and fix it myself02:22
achipathe whole input method thingy is a bit of a hack because Qt needed to be shoehorned on top of hildon... so it acts weird occasionally (i.e. not every input box is what it seems to be :) )02:22
Venemoachipa: they also pointed me to a few thousand lines long cpp file...02:22
achipayes, that was the "bit of a hack" part :)02:23
Venemoachipa: "shoehorned on top of hildon" -> ridiculous excuse. KDE apps can run on top of Gnome without any issues.02:23
achipagnome does (a lot) less input method juggling02:23
achipanot to mention that we have n900 specific hildon hacks in the first place - so it's a hack of a hack02:24
VenemoI just hope it will be solvable in MeeGo02:24
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Venemoachipa:  hack of a hack of a hack of a hack... that's what I see a lot in Maemo :(02:25
achipayes, well, hopefully (though TBH I would expect a lot of 'differentiation' done exactly on input methods so it's always an opportunity to bork something)02:25
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Venemoachipa: slightly OT in here, but still. do you have a MeeGo installation on an N900 at hand?02:27
achipanope... must admit that I did not play with that combo for quite a while now02:28
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achipa(well, essentially since 1.1 got released)02:28
Venemoachipa: I'm just curious about whether it is possible to make a phone call with the earpiece yet02:28
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Venemoachipa: in the 1.1 times Sts said it's not possible because of the lack of an audio policy framework, whose ETA is 1.202:29
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Venemoachipa: now that 1.2 is in beta, noone knows and I don't have a 4GB microSD in handy to test02:29
achipaVenemo: huh, no idea, really... I know the HAL guys were saying that SOMETHING was done recently but not sure if it applies to phone calls02:29
Venemoachipa: also, they complained in #meego about Nokia not releasing the N900 hw specs for the MeeGo guys.02:30
Venemoachipa: I found this utterly ridiculous02:30
achipa? define spects02:30
Venemoachipa: something about N900 and ofono02:31
Venemoachipa: I'm not sure about the details02:31
Venemoachipa: see and the comments of thiago_home02:32
achipatelephony is always a pain point, because of 'assorted secrets', so I'm not entirely surprised02:32
Venemoit is a lot annoying though.02:34
achipathe funky biz of drivers and specs - even if you have access to stuff (via NDA or sorts) at some point it gets to legal because of distribution/publishing and then stuff gets hairy real quick02:34
Venemoachipa: okay, but I still think it's ridiculous02:35
achipaVenemo: you will hardly find a sane engineer who thinks otherwise (Nokian or not)02:35
Venemoachipa: if a company decides that it likes free & open source sw, then it should act accordingly.02:36
achipaVenemo: that could work if we had a full vertical, from silicon manufacturing through middleware to end products - the reality, however is that there is plenty of stuff done by others02:38
Venemoachipa: I'm happy to see that Nokia did the right thing in many areas regarding MeeGo, but telephony is something that should be also treated the right way02:38
achipa(where others not necessarily means different companies)02:38
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achipabut there are these little isolated forts that are really-really difficult to make OSS friendly02:38
Venemoyeah achipa, I can understand that02:39
Venemoachipa: anyway, if the situation doesn't get solved by the time MeeGo becomes a consumer product, I'll just sell the N900 and buy a cheap phone for phoning and a tablet for MeeGo :P02:40
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achipaah, meego as a consumer product... that time can't come too soon either :)02:42
Venemoachipa: I don't think there's much left until then02:42
achipatwo months, tops ! (pandora timeframe :P )02:42
SpeedEvilN9 is going to ship and take inspiration from neo1973. You start it up, and it boots linux, into a kernel panic as there is no rootfs.02:43
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achipaSpeedEvil: careful, it just might be true ! :D02:43
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VenemoSpeedEvil: did neo1973 really boot into a kernel panic?02:45
SpeedEvilYou could see that the screen was awesome, even so02:46
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GuySofthey, does anyone here know of a twitter client that will actually work on the nokia N810? they all stoped since oauth :(03:05
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VenemoGuySoft: maybe you could try to poke the author of a twitter client for the N90003:06
VenemoGuySoft: or just use the web page03:06
GuySoftVenemo, the new twitter crawls on the N81003:07
GuySoftVenemo, who is the author of the N900 twitter client?03:07
SpeedEvilkhertan ?03:08
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VenemoGuySoft: there are multiple apps03:11
VenemoGuySoft: I'm not familiar with any of them. (I don't use twitter)03:12
VenemoGuySoft: maybe search on TMO03:13
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Venemogood evening now guys03:18
Venemoachipa, thanks for the discussion03:18
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lcukGuySoft, poke khertan03:18
lcukfor the longest time his apps worked well on n810, hopefully he carried on thinking with khweuter03:19
lcuk(spelling is off probably03:19
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jonwilbah, still no word from Nokia Care about my replacement N900 :(03:54
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GNUtoo|laptopVanadis, I tried flashing rootfs with flasher04:17
GNUtoo|laptopstill the same error04:17
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GNUtoo|laptophi DocScrutinizer04:25
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zutesmogAnyone looked at this yet  supposed flash 10,1 plugin.04:43
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wmaroneyes, again, it's the TI release being distributed in violation of the license agreement04:48
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zutesmognot nice04:49
ieatlintyeah, how dare you pirate software that adobe typically gives away for free in support of their own economic benefit04:50
ieatlintthey're going to lose money because you chose to use their software04:50
ieatlintshame on you04:50
wmaronewell it makes the community look bad04:50
wmaronethat adobe doesn't make an effort to ensure it's done legitimately is their own problem :)04:51
ieatlinti'd argue it makes the community look frustrated04:51
wmaroneyeah but the community is antsy and self-hating as it is04:51
zutesmogthe problem I see is its an opaque binary from an untrusted source, so unless someone can verify it, who knows it could be nasty ;-)04:52
ieatlintthen what are you trying to defend? :P04:52
wmaronenothing, I'm just pointing out a fact :P04:52
ieatlintzutesmog: you just described flash in general :)04:52
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GNUtoo|laptopah it seem to have flashed maemo04:57
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GNUtoo|laptopso it now works05:06
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GeneralAntillesTaxes filed, woo!05:26
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GNUtoo|laptopwhat are the right args for ubiformat and ubinize?06:06
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GNUtoo|laptopthe one found on the forum here don't work :06:06
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wmaronereggie should just shut TMO down06:35
wmaronepieces of crap like PradaBrada have the run of the place06:35
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RobbieThe1st_That was ...odd... My PC just paused for a second. I see "NVRM: os_schedule: Attempted to yield the CPU while in atomic or interrupt context" in the system log.08:25
RobbieThe1st_What happened?08:25
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RobbieThe1st116F, probably not08:26
johnxthat's the end of my guesses :)08:27
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RobbieThe1stHm. Looks like it's probably the darn 260.19.29 Nvidia driver. :\ I may very well downgrade back to the 256 driver.08:28
johnxI seem to be on 260.19.0608:29
johnxAre you tracking a PPA or installing manually or something?08:29
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RobbieThe1stManually, on my Debian Squeeze system08:29
johnxlaptop or desktop?08:30
RobbieThe1stthe latter08:30
johnxwell, luckily it seems you're not alone08:30
RobbieThe1stCustom build; GTX 260 216-core card; 4GB of ram; Phenom II x4 95508:30
RobbieThe1stHuh... that's Odd. Just did it again08:31
johnxclose to a clone of my machine :)08:31
RobbieThe1stMight have something to do with either Runescape in OpenGL mode, or KMPlayer playing via OpenGL..08:31
RST38hheya johnx08:32
johnxmornin' RST38h08:32
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RST38hRobbie: It probably managed to interrupt the interrupt handler08:33
RST38hSome driver may have a problem08:33
Sc0rpiusI dunno but it looks I'm in 260.9908:35
RobbieThe1stThat's the thing about closed-source drivers: When they work, everything's fine. When they don't, you just want to yell at the idiots in charge.08:35
RST38hThe same thing occurs with open-source drivers.08:36
Sc0rpiusthe only difference is that maybe you could have a chance to fix it yourself with open-source drivers08:36
Sc0rpiusbut you'd still yelling at people08:36
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RobbieThe1stSc0rpius: True, but usually with those, someone else has already done the yelling for me.08:37
RobbieThe1stAnd has a patch or PPA available with the improved version08:38
RST38hSc0rpius: If you are not familiar with kernel programming or programming at all, you still do not have a chance to fix it.08:38
RST38hA lot of "open source advocates" miss this particular point.08:38
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johnxThis would cast nVidia in a bad light except that ATi's Linux drivers are pretty bad (last time I looked)08:39
RobbieThe1stThat's extremely true. Last time I tried to run a decent OpenGL app on my ATi-based laptop, it flickered with Compiz enabled. For some odd reason.08:40
RobbieThe1stI haven't had -much- trouble with Nvidia drivers.08:40
Sc0rpiuswell that's the "chance": that you might be familiar with it08:41
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Sc0rpiusof course if we're talking about nVidia drivers is very unlikely for common developers to fix things there08:41
Sc0rpiusand nVidia drivers for windows, even worse.08:41
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johnxRobbieThe1st, to say nothing of the fact that they tend to offer a fraction of the card's true potential in linux08:42
RobbieThe1stEh... Even with the "closed" nvidia drivers, there's some sort of interface that needs to be compiled at install time. And when -that- fails with new kernels, people -do- put out patches.08:42
Sc0rpiusthat's why people should not use Linux as workstation OS08:42
Sc0rpiusand I should go to bed before the haters start to hate08:42
RobbieThe1stEh, I disagree. They shouldn't use it for Gaming perhaps.08:42
johnxSc0rpius, are you recommending Sun^WOracle or Mac?08:42
Sc0rpiusit's funny, you have a GTX260 one of the most powerful video cards out there, using Linux?08:43
RobbieThe1stBut workstation? Unless you're using Compiz, you don't need much card, just like on Windows XP.08:43
RobbieThe1stYup... and I game on it. I can even play TF2 remarkably well through Wine.08:43
Sc0rpiusI still prefer to have a W7 as my main workstation computer. Always running an ubuntu with VMWare Player 24/7 in a second monitor08:44
RobbieThe1stBut my gaming requirements are fairly low, considering.... I just couldn't stand Windows any longer when I switched.08:44
Sc0rpiusmostly for scratchbox (developing for the N900)08:44
johnxSc0rpius, Then I hope you don't mind if I take your suggestion about 'workstation' OS with a grain of salt ;)08:44
Sc0rpiusW7 is fairly stable I haven't had the first problem with it and I've been using it for a while08:45
Sc0rpiuslack of software and incompatibility with the rest of the world pushes me away from Linux, Mac and other crap as a workstation OS08:45
RobbieThe1stSc0rpius: Tell that to my laptop, which, after 8 months of working right decided that it was not genuine anymore.08:45
Sc0rpiusat job, all servers are Solaris08:45
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johnxSc0rpius, let's just agree to disagree08:46
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RobbieThe1stI haven't had a -single- licence issue with my Linux boxes! :308:46
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Sc0rpiusand hey I've been using Linux for a while, but never got me. I still remember the fights between Torvalds and Andrew Tannenbaum in the newsgroups fighting for Minix back in '9208:47
* RST38h hasn't had a single license issue with his Win7 box. So, what is the point/08:47
Sc0rpiusI was at the university at the time08:47
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Sc0rpiusyeah me neither08:48
Sc0rpiusand I have a laptop, a desktop and a netbook all running W708:48
luke-jrSc0rpius: you're crazy.08:48
RST38hSc0: That was not a "fight". That was a spanking.08:48
luke-jr*Windows* is incompatible with the rest of the world.08:48
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luke-jrGNU/Linux runs more software than any other OS08:48
RST38hAnd it has left poor Torvalds psychologically damaged for the rest of his life08:48
Sc0rpiuswell after that, actually several months later, a Kernel 1.1.3 was released with whatever became "Slackware", I installed that08:49
Sc0rpiusit was fun because nothing worked08:49
luke-jrSc0rpius: also, GTX is nVidia, which are crap.08:49
Sc0rpiusso after you made it all your hardware work, it was boring.08:49
RobbieThe1stY'know, it's surprising. For me, I've had less issues with Linux "Just working" than I have with my Mom's iMac, or the various family XP systems.08:49
Sc0rpiusso I guess you are: ATi fan, AMD fan, Linux fan?08:49
Sc0rpiuspeople like you are shot when they are born where I come from08:49
Sc0rpiusyou should be: Intel fan, nVidia fan, Windows fan08:49
luke-jrSc0rpius: ATi is far better than nVidia08:49
johnxalright, soooo, OS flamewar time?08:49
`Ika_Musumeati dont exist anymore08:49
RST38hRobbie: We have all got the point. There is no need to repeat it.08:49
luke-jrbut even my Intel IGP outperforms both08:49
`Ika_Musumeits all amd now08:50
`Ika_Musumeamd sux yea08:50
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Sc0rpiusthat's not what Tomshardware's benchmark are saying08:50
`Ika_Musumei got an 6core08:50
luke-jrSc0rpius: Tom is an idiot Windozeluser08:50
`Ika_Musumelol amd never beat intel08:51
Sc0rpiusI'd never buy an ATi08:51
luke-jrGTX580 can only do 119 MH/s08:51
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johnxcan we all just agree that FreeBSD is the best and leave it at that?08:51
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luke-jrRadeon 5970 can do 535 MH/s08:51
RST38hjohnx: Yeah.08:51
luke-jrjohnx: s/best/dead/08:51
`Ika_Musumeamd ati still beat nvidia08:51
johnxluke-jr, it's not dead, it's pining for the fjords08:51
Sc0rpiusthat's a biased link08:51
luke-jrAMD's best video card is over 4 times better than nVidia's08:51
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luke-jrSc0rpius: no, it's not.08:52
Sc0rpiusno AMD is faster than its equivalent Intel CPU08:52
`Ika_Musumeamd have best video card and the worst drivers08:52
`Ika_Musumealso amd cards run cooler08:52
luke-jrSc0rpius: equivalency is determined by speed. so by definition, they're the same speed if they're equivalent.08:52
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johnxSc0rpius, I have to admit, I'm intrigued by your definition of 'equivalent'08:52
RobbieThe1stAMD is good for low-cost power; Intel has the top-end single-core-performance market08:52
`Ika_Musumeamd dies soon08:52
Sc0rpiuswell each processor is different so they are hard to compare08:52
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`Ika_Musumeno one ever buy amd08:53
luke-jrRobbieThe1st: Sandy Bridge blew away all AMD's offerings completely. sorry.08:53
Sc0rpiusyou can't compare two CPUs with the same frequency, they could report different MIPS08:53
johnxthough I have to admit, I still miss BeOS features from time to time08:53
RST38hjohnx: I do think it is time for a few /ignores08:53
johnxlike /ignore #maemo --for-the-night?08:53
RST38hjohnx: Getting too old for yet-another-boring-pointless-os-flamewar08:53
RobbieThe1stluke-jr: Yea, you'd expect something two years old to be outperformed :\08:54
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RST38hjohnx: Naah, too radical08:54
johnxjeez, I'm 27 and I feel too old for this crap08:54
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johnxThis was fun when I was like 1408:54
luke-jrRobbieThe1st: AMD needs to get its act in order with Bulldozer or they're dead08:54
Sc0rpiusI hope they're dead08:54
Sc0rpiusthe world doesn't need them08:54
`Ika_Musumei live laptop wise i gave up and solsd all my amd comps08:54
RST38hjohnx: And that was about time when it ended, most hardware being the same nowadays08:54
luke-jrSc0rpius: when AMD can't compete, Intel gets lazy08:55
Sc0rpiusthat's true08:55
luke-jralso, AMD is friendlier08:55
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Sc0rpiusand that happens in all free markets around the world08:55
`Ika_Musumeismamd even a treath to intel? amd have like 16% of the market08:55
johnxRST38h, for desktops/servers? yeah. I am interested in the Cortex-A9 these days, but that's about it08:55
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RobbieThe1stIntel added "Intel Insider". I can't forgive them for that - If AMD goes down, hm... ARM on the desktop might be interesting.08:56
luke-jrAMD competes better than ARM08:56
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`Ika_Musumeamr is mobile cpu amd is desktop08:56
luke-jrmaybe AMD should die, and force Intel to split for anti-trust08:57
Sc0rpiusI hope Apple dies too08:57
johnxIn my head I'm just replacing all the brand names with $foo $bar and $baz08:57
luke-jrnah, Intel would bail AMD out before that happens08:57
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Sc0rpiusand that's it, everything else can live08:57
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RST38hjohnx: yea, the mobile stuff has not stabilized yet08:57
`Ika_Musumei bet amd is give up soon08:58
luke-jrgood luck getting a Sandy Bridge system now :p08:58
Sc0rpiusactually Intel needs AMD, so they can't say it's not a monopoly but still control like 90% of the PC market08:58
RST38hjohnx: but it is also stabilizing into bland 4" slates running Android on top of a Samsung CPU08:58
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luke-jryou can't buy any SB motherboards anymore08:58
RobbieThe1stYea; I heard about the glitch. Ouch for intel08:58
luke-jryay for me08:59
luke-jrI'm gonna get NewEgg to upgrade my replacement board :P08:59
RobbieThe1stIt might just give AMD the edge it needs08:59
johnxRST38h, have to disagree on the form factor thing. There are more sizes/shapes of smartphones today than there were two years ago08:59
luke-jrRobbieThe1st: how?08:59
luke-jrRobbieThe1st: it's just a short delay and lots of $$$ down the tube08:59
RobbieThe1stBy delaying SB for a bit.08:59
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luke-jrit doesn't set Intel's production back much really09:00
johnx4" screens just weren't done 2 years ago, and now it's common. And there were *no* 7 inch tablets. Now we have a nice list to choose from09:00
RST38hjohnx: Go visit your local BestBuy. See how many shapes are available.09:00
RST38h"When SCP containment teams came into contact with SCP-421, Principal ???? was working on a proof alongside the corpse of Mr. ????."09:00
luke-jrknow what would make me extremely happy with AMD or Intel?09:00
luke-jrif they open sourced the microcode09:01
luke-jrthen someone could rewrite it to run ARM or PPC instructions instead09:01
RobbieThe1stYou forget the shipping/storage and other companies production - The new product has to get shipped to a mfgr, then added to motherboards, then shipped to the stores... It'll take a couple weeks.09:01
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luke-jrRobbieThe1st: I doubt weeks hurt in the big picture09:01
johnxRST38h, a couple landscape sliders, a couple in the 3" range. a couple in the 4" range, and 7" tablets09:01
luke-jralthough I hope it doesn't delay Q67 much09:01
RobbieThe1stIt can't -help-/09:02
luke-jrit would be awesome to run PPC on an Intel/AMD proc09:02
RobbieThe1stY'know, the sad thing about tablets is that I haven't seen any 7"ers that have a 1024x800 or so screen09:02
RobbieThe1stLike 800.480 till you get to 10 inchers09:03
Sc0rpiuswanna take a peak at my Modest in tree view mode?09:03
RST38hjohnx: Yep09:03
johnxdoesn't the galaxy tab do 1024x600?09:03
RST38hjohnx: Dunno, it certainlylooks like this09:03
Sc0rpiusI really hated that I couldn't collapse subfolders.09:03
johnxRST38h, and two years ago we didn't have the 4" or 7" category at all09:03
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RST38hjohnx: Yes, but we are talking 4" slate, smaller slate, bigger slate, and a slate with slideout keyboard09:04
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johnxRST38h, so what shape do you want? a cylinder? a regular tetrahedron?09:04
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`Ika_Musumewhy not get an cowon 3g?09:05
`Ika_Musumebeter tehn every moboile09:05
johnxand more to the point: what form factor did we have in the past that we've lost now?09:05
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RST38hjohnx: We have lost the E70!09:10
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RST38hjohnx: And all we have got is a freaking slate, that is not even comfortable to hold to you ear =)09:10
RST38h[Sidenote: Fennec 4b4 == FAIL]09:10
johnxah, great09:10
johnxI just finished installing it09:10
johnxguess I don't need to bother running it :|09:11
RST38hYou can try, the loading time was 30-40 seconds for me09:11
RST38hTook a few minutes to load a web page, swapping all the time, I guess09:11
johnxso is your complaint more about actual physical shape, rather than "form factor" exactly?09:12
RST38hjohnx: I had no complaints :)09:12
RST38hjohnx: But if you put it this way, then yes, I dislike hw being commoditized09:12
RST38hjohnx: I hate modern cars, which all look the same. I hate modern laptops, which all look the same. And the same commoditization is happening with the mobile devices09:13
johnxI have to admit I like the part of 'commoditized' where prices fall through the floor and competition goes way up09:13
RST38hThat's true, yes09:13
kerioRST38h: so buy a macbook!09:13
* kerio ducks09:13
johnxthough, I've resisted the commoditization of the desktop09:13
RST38hBut the goods all become the same.09:14
johnxmine is still as ugly as the late'90s09:14
RST38hDesktops just plain died out09:14
johnxin terms of 'innovation'?09:14
RST38hjohnx: as a class09:14
Sc0rpiusI should hit the bed09:14
kerioRST38h: haha yeah right09:14
kerioeveryone can afford a laptop09:15
kerioit's not like we're in an economic crisis09:15
johnxRST38h, I mean yeah, but it's where I do all the work for mobile stuff09:15
RST38hjohnx: Whatever remains is either a hobbyist box (with LEDs and liquid cooling) or a replacement for a DVD player, that can also run Office09:15
kerioRST38h: and what's the problem in that?09:16
kerioa dreamplug with a usb monitor is more than most people need09:16
* RST38h writes Fennec off the list of usable apps, again.09:16
johnxheh. I wonder if globalscale they figured out the cooling issues this time around ...09:17
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keriojohnx: i thought they did09:17
keriothat was the point of the new case09:17
johnxwell, the guruplug was pretty bad09:17
johnxdo people actually have dreamplugs in hand yet?09:18
* johnx didn't RTFA09:18
RST38hand also sounded like a sex toy.09:18
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kerioRST38h: how's that a negative factor? >:D09:19
keriojohnx: maybe some demo units, but yeah09:19
kerioalthough i'm not sure09:19
johnxI had a pre-order in for a guruplug but canceled it when people started hitting real problems09:19
johnxGot a QNAP TS119 instead and it's been fantastic09:20
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* kerio only has a sheevaplug09:20
RST38hThere was a web farm company that *rented* people guruplugs, all installed at the farm09:20
RST38hfor something like $15/mo09:20
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kerioRST38h: i bet they cheaped out on the heating09:21
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johnxactually rebooted by qnap after 70 days uptime, and freaked out when it didn't come online after a couple minutes. Turns out a fsck.ext4 on a 2TB drive takes a while ...09:22
infobotjohnx meant: actually rebooted my qnap after 70 days uptime, and freaked out when it didn't come online after a couple minutes. Turns out a fsck.ext4 on a 2TB drive takes a while ...09:22
keriojohnx: fsck on ext4?09:23
kerioi disabled fsck on my ext3 drive09:23
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johnxapparently I didn't :)09:24
keriobtw, can i borrow a tb or something09:24
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kerioi seriously need to defrag it09:24
johnxdon't have much left. I've been using it to store backups09:25
johnxah, though I lied. This is actually ext309:25
kerioapparently downloading multiple romsets without telling transmission to preallocate everything first leads to having a 60% fragmentation rate09:25
kerio"ext3 avoids fragmentation" my ass09:26
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kerioanyway, i was thinking of something like btrfs09:27
keriois it stable enough yet?09:27
johnxI dunno if I'd trust it yet for backups. I might trust it for videos and movies and games09:28
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DocScrutinizer"ext3 avoids fragmentation" - alie09:39
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DocScrutinizerurban legend09:39
DocScrutinizerext3 fragments as well, if you fill up the drive. It performs good with plenty of free space09:40
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toresbeDocScrutinizer: isn't that basically true, then?09:40
toresbeDocScrutinizer: that it _avoids_ fragmentation and only begins to fragment when the FS fills up...09:41
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ShadowJKit was more true back when vfat allocation algo made one facepalm09:43
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javispedro oh my. intel is recalling cougar point...09:50
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*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: -q pupnik_!*@*10:35
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RST38hPoor pupnik has been silenced again? Hm10:36
DocScrutinizer[2011-02-01 23:31:30] <pupnik_> and you're a fucking idiot10:37
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DocScrutinizer[2011-02-01 23:32:04] <pupnik_> because you cunts will never believe they can do evil10:37
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chris81Hello @all10:37
chris81I need some help plz, with the n900 email client. I need to setup an imap path, How do I do that?10:38
DocScrutinizerI'm honestly concerned about pupnik's mental health - anyway there's zero tolerance left for his insulting behaviour anymore10:39
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RST38hDoc: silcencing him won't make him feel any better though10:40
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johnxchris81, looking at it. I'm not entirely certain it supports that ...10:40
DocScrutinizerhe regularly queries me and honestly thanks for the +q10:41
johnxchris81, is this for work or some public email provider?10:41
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chris81it is for work10:43
DocScrutinizerseriously, common IRC practice is to kick and maybe even temporarily or permanently ban users calling others names like he does10:43
johnxchris81, ah. Does mail show up at all without the path entered?10:44
chris81no nothing he is not able to update anything10:45
chris81I think it links to the home of my workingplace and it my be to big entirely scan it. Thunderbird uses the 'Mail' subdirectory10:46
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chris81it is just a thought. The other mail accounts I set up are working10:48
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chris81I don"t know where i can find a log file of modest ...10:48
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chris81is there a 'good' email client alternative to test the account10:57
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DocScrutinizerp2p networks for Aegypt!10:57
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djszapiwhich package do I need to install in order to have a git inside the scratchbox ? scratchbox-devkit-git is installed, but still not available...11:05
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alteregoHey MohammadAG11:12
MohammadAGhi alterego11:12
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djszapiI do not think it is git core11:14
djszapiit is more like scratchbox-devkit-git11:14
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* alterego sighs11:14
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MohammadAGThen why the f did you ask11:14
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chris81@johnx: Did you find somethink ?11:23
johnxI didn't see anything in the settings11:23
johnxI've also never seen a mail account that needed that11:23
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johnxHave you tried just giving the N900 some time to process deal with the huge number of emails?11:24
johnxMaybe you could install a network or cpu monitor to see if the N900 is doing anything after it connects to the account?11:24
chris81but i think it just gives up11:24
chris81the config files are in /var/lib/gconf/modest/11:25
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Venemohey guys11:25
johnxif you create the account, then click click 'New folder' from the menu, does it create one somewhere?11:25
Venemotrumee: it's in testing now. are you happy? :)11:25
Venemotrumee: vote here:
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Venemoguys, please vote for my package:
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johnxchris81, did you look from the other mail client you have?11:29
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chris81I got thunderbird on my desktop11:30
chris81i see all my mail folders in the 'Mail' dir of my home11:30
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chris81i thunderbird i donot see the client11:31
johnxand if you try to create a folder from the n900 it doesn't show up anywhere in thunderbird?11:31
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johnxthen I don't really have any ideas :|11:32
johnxyou could try the email client called 'claws' but it's not that easy to use from a touchscreen11:32
chris81perpas there is a setting the config files to set the imap prefix path11:32
chris81but I need the doc of modest there11:33
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chris81thx for your help anyway11:36
johnxno problem. good luck11:36
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Venemochris81: modest can be found on gitorious11:45
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dashavooHey, is there somebody who has Mnemosyne installed on their N900 and can either confirm or... non-confirm a bug for me please?11:58
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opdf2is it possible to do portrait task switcher?12:02
SpeedEvilapt-get install mnemosyn12:03
SpeedEvilOk - can't do that on this net connection ATM.12:03
dashavooSpeedEvil: fair enough, thanks anyway12:04
dashavoosooner or later  you or someone else will ;)12:04
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jonwilbah, still no word from Nokia Care on my replacement N900 :(12:33
dashavoojonwil: what was wrong with the previous one? (I ask because mine is dying a death, slowly but obviously)12:36
jonwilThe status notification LED and front camera both stopped working12:36
dashavooHmm, I don't use my front camera, so I have no idea how that is faring. My notification LED does funny things when it is charging, but I think that is a charging issue.12:38
DocScrutinizerFlat Plastic Connector cable breakage - or, more precisely, probably the triple layer B2C-connector and second layer jumper board12:38
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dashavooDocScrutinizer: would apt-get dist-upgrade fix it?12:41
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SpeedEvildashavoo: yes, and that also fixes any scratches in the case, and upgrades the processor to 4GHz.12:44
dashavooSpeedEvil: Awesome =D12:45
dashavooHmm... I wish I could extend the N900's Skype with "Skype for 3" so I could make free calls without using up my data =(12:46
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dashavooI have to go to the pub to use their wifi whenever I want to skype call someone12:46
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banozhi there12:48
banozdo you know if is possible to use more usb devices at the same time with the nokia n900?12:49
ieatlintyou're complaining that you have a reason to go to the pub... :P12:49
SpeedEvilbanoz: With a hub, in principle, yes.12:49
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banozI'll try it and I'll let you know12:51
dashavooieatlint: I never need a reason to go to the pub, but I would rather be able to sit on my comfy settee and speak to my friends abroad12:51
ieatlinti'm sure your friends love it when you call them when drunk12:51
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Extendshi all, how to install maemo onn vmware player?13:20
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ExtendsI need test my app,13:21
Extendsit is possible?13:21
progre55hi guys. any eta on nokia n9?13:21
RobbieThe1stAs usual: Nope13:21
progre55but it's probably not the right place to ask that question =)13:21
progre55thanks Robbie)13:21
RobbieThe1stExtends: Why not just load it on your n900?13:21
Extendsbecause  I dont have a n900 ? ; )13:22
RobbieThe1stThen why/how are you developing an app for it?13:22
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RobbieThe1stSeems a little hard. An emulator won't really give you a good test anyway - at best, you can see if it works. But if it does, you won't know real performance and how it works unless you have a device13:23
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Extendsto put in OviStore13:24
RobbieThe1stYou are -really- expecting to get an application up to the quality at which you can -sell- without having really tested it? :\13:25
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ExtendsI think so,  every single developer needs to have one for that?13:26
RobbieThe1stLike I said, you're really going to need an n900 if you expect to develop an app - sure, you might be able to build a QT app for a range of devices and just compile it for the n900... but developing without any sort of compatible hardware's just not going to work13:26
Extendsand why we have simulator13:27
alteregoScratchbox is better than that simulator tbh13:27
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RobbieThe1stAFAIK, we have scratchbox, which is mainly a compiling platform.13:27
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alteregoMuch better test environment, if you _really_ don't have access to the hardware.13:28
RobbieThe1stBut it doesn't have a GUI or any way to load/run gui apps on it, right?13:28
alteregoYou can also get people here or on tmo to test on real hardware.13:28
alteregoRobbieThe1st: of course it does.13:28
Extendsin the moment I use the nokia qt sdk and inside I have a maemo simulator13:29
alteregoWhat it doesn't have us hardware simulators for gps, accel, etc.13:29
alteregoThe simulator in Qt SDK is awful to be honest.13:29
Extendsi know that... but  I don't have another way13:29
alteregoIf you want to target maemo I'd suggest setting up scratchbox and getting qt creator to work with scratchbox.13:29
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RobbieThe1stIt really has an interface like the n900? Like being able to tap buttons, task-switch and such? Or just run individual QT apps on the parent machine?13:29
ExtendsI just have a n82 :(13:30
alteregoRobbieThe1st: yes13:30
alteregoIt has a fully functioning maemo 5 chroot with native UX13:30
RobbieThe1stI've got to get a copy working... Last I checked, it was a major pain to get working on x86_64, though13:31
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alteregoRobbieThe1st: works fine for me on 64bit ubuntu 10.1013:31
ExtendsI have I frien, and that friend has I n900, I will talk to him...13:31
RobbieThe1stHow did you install it?13:31
alteregoI manually installed it.13:31
alteregoBut the instructions should work fine tbh13:32
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banozhi there13:32
banozwhat happens if I delete the content of /tmp13:33
alteregobanoz: bad things13:33
alteregoDepending what you're deleting13:33
banozbecause I get this errror:13:33
banozcan't write /tmp/cctn4JLa.o: No space left on device13:34
banozI deleted some space on my home directory13:34
banozis tmp on another partition?13:34
RobbieThe1stNo... everything -but- /home/ is your rootfs13:34
RobbieThe1st(and /opt/)13:34
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RobbieThe1st /tmp is a ramdisk, and files may reside there or in memory IIRC13:35
RobbieThe1stYou need to clean space on the rootfs13:35
banozso this message is saying that i have not space on my roofts13:35
banozuhm so, free packages?13:35
banozok cool!13:35
RobbieThe1strun "apt-get clean" as root first13:35
banozalready done :(13:36
RobbieThe1stWell, follow those instructions13:36
banozI should have 227.8 M fs and used 203.6M13:37
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banozso 20,0M available13:37
banozthere is still space... very strange...13:37
RobbieThe1sttry rebooting13:38
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RobbieThe1stalterego: No, I can't install it. Trying to run the scratchbox installer results in a 404 error when trying to download amd64 packages from scratchbox.org13:39
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alteregoInstall the 32 bit packages13:39
alteregoand make sure you have 32 bit lib support installed.13:40
RobbieThe1stOut of curiosity, there's a "harmattan" Scratchbox available - what's that about?13:40
alteregoDon't know, don't use it.13:41
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dashavoook, I know I asked this earlier, but I think enough hours have passed to ask again if anyone has mnemosyne installed and would be willing to try and confirm a bug for me?13:45
dashavoothe channel is alot more active now than it was when I first asked13:46
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ArGGu^^RobbieThe1st harmattan was codename for maemo 613:52
RobbieThe1stArGGu^^: Yea, but what's the scratchbox of/have/look like?13:52
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ArGGu^^RobbieThe1st I didn't understand what you mean by of/have/look?13:57
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ArGGu^^I was just thinking that maybe the scratchbox harmattan is version specially made for maemo613:59
ArGGu^^or maybe it for meego now13:59
ArGGu^^because there is no maemo 614:00
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mgedminwoot imgur integration!14:03
* mgedmin tries to vote for it and notices that is glacially slow as usual14:04
mgedminI think this is the right page: ...14:06
* mgedmin is now wishing he had a command-line imgur upload tool on his laptop14:06
mgedminthere's a weird css bug on maemo.org14:06
mgedminprobably nobody cares :(14:07
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auenfcss bugs rock14:08
auenferr, surely nokias first meego will be arm, not x86?14:09
chxi.... do not know14:10
chxdidnt Intel want to break into this space?14:10
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auenfif nokia doesnt want to release an arm meego at all, they wouldnt use n900 as dev device14:11
chx here14:11
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auenfstill all speculation14:13
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_berto_Groundhog Phil, live from Punxsutawney:
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SpeedEvil - on the subject of handling a community.14:22
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DocScrutinizer51any hint how to *directly* change the settings-internet-ChangeToWlanIfAvailable setting? I checked system and session dbus... nuttin. Gconf?15:10
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naeI just added the fremantle/tools repo, is there a key I can add to the apt keyring so I don't get the warnings about the packages not being authenticated?15:13
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DocScrutinizererrm, never seen this problem15:14
naereally. Maybe I added it incorrectly15:17
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yes, gconf15:19
jonwilbah, this is too complicated to reverse engineer15:19
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# diff ch2wlan-on.txt ch2wlan-off.txt15:20
DocScrutinizer<      change_while_connected = true15:20
DocScrutinizerthnx anyway15:20
jonwilTrying to reverse engineer the bits that would allow the solving of bug 100215:20
povbotBug WPA pre-shared key should allow HEX input15:20
jonwilbut there are 3 .so files full of complex UI code involved15:20
jonwilplus various undocumented dependancies of those 315:20
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naeno, I've definitely added this tools repo as per the instructions. now when I run apt-get install netcat I get the warning about the package not being authenticated15:24
jonwilits all part of connui-conndlgs-internet, connui-iapsettings-wlan and connui-iapsettings15:24
jonwilwith dependancies on libconnui, libconbtui and libmaemosec_certman15:25
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DocScrutinizergconftool-2 -s /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/change_while_connected -t boolean false15:28
DocScrutinizercmdline execution widget time15:28
VenemoI've just updated to the latest Fennec15:29
Venemoit's acutally slower than the previous version... :(15:29
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jonwilbah, so many things on my list of things that UI want to reverse engineer and I seem to be making no progress on any of them :(15:37
jonwilat least I just found out that source code IS available for libmaemosec and libmaemosec_certman and friends15:38
jonwilso thats one less thing to care about15:39
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achipaX-Fade: heya, could you change the text on hotfix promotion blockage to mention mcsp ? Something like "Warning: Promotion of packages depending on hotfixes is blocked. Please depend on the 'mcsp' package if you need them."16:20
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DocScrutinizerman, setting up a few queen-beecon-knobs sucks. Too much chrome, too few sane presets, too little edit and c&p options. I don't even dare to click "advanced"16:27
DocScrutinizertbh I still haven't completely figured how to get rid of all those .png16:30
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DocScrutinizerprobably I should have stayed with desktop cmd execution widget16:32
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DocScrutinizersetting up a contact avatar queen-beecon style: type in filename of picture, click "import" at bottom of page three screens scrolldown, in popping up menu select X, Y, width, height, rotation and aspect ratio with 6 sliders, click save&quite. Watch result and start over again16:40
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banozhi there16:44
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banozmy tmp partition is  1.0M used 72.0k. Now I'm compiling a program. How can I increase this space?16:45
banozis it simple?16:45
chxyou are compiling ... on the N900????16:46
banozchx why?16:47
lcukbanoz, you could try symlinking it elsewhere, but not sure how that will effect boot - why does it not have enough space?16:47
lcukwhat are you building?16:48
banozlcuk, an application that I have written that uses opencv16:48
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dashavooIt has been ages since I played with opencv, I should get back to that sometime16:51
lcukbanoz, cool stuff16:51
lcukwhat are you trying to do with it?16:51
dashavooonly problem is, when I'm coding all day at work, I don't really feel like coding when I get home (even if I could fit it into my busy evenings)16:52
banozlcuk, at present I'm just experimenting to see if is feasible do some interesting stuff with the N90016:52
banozthe cpu is not so fast but never say never..16:52
lcukheh its entirely feasible16:52
lcukthe cpu is great16:52
banozit's 600Mhz16:52
lcukdepends on perpective of course16:53
banozyep yep16:53
lcukmy code was written for the older 400mhz model ;)16:53
lcuk600mhz is great guns16:53
banozand there is also the overclock option...16:53
lcukthats not an option for official build of course so you should not code based on requiring it16:54
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banozlcuk, I know but anyway it is good to see that is possible to overclock it up to 1.150 GHz :)16:55
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lcukbanoz, but for your own uses, does it make a noticable difference to speed of opencv calculations?16:56
banozlcuk, I still don't know but my friend was working with another phone with a low cpu and the results were not so good16:57
villagerhas arm optimizations been added to opencv now?16:57
banozI hope so :)16:57
lcukbanoz, yeah, I have heard other similar tales, even on same hardware16:57
banozit depends on the application..16:58
lcukI ended up hacking together a custom image recognition thing myself16:58
banozhow did it go?16:58
lcuk see for yourself16:59
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banozthis is cool :)17:00
DocScrutinizerhell, we had things like realtime FFT and visualization, when CPUs had e.g 133MHz17:00
lcukmy amiga could do fft17:01
* dashavoo misses his amiga =(17:01
lcuki went all the way to Cheshire on a motorbike to pick up a sampler for it :P17:01
banozwhen I was child my first pc was a 808617:01
dashavooa friend actually gave me his a500, the only problem is I have nothing I can connect it to anymore, and I don't have my games anymore.17:02
banozit was great17:02
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DocScrutinizerI'm missing the coders that say "the code is too bloated and poorly optimized" - rather I see C++ weirdos that cry for 5GHz quadcore to make their animations work smoothly17:02
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E0xDocScrutinizer: indeed17:03
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pradeep_pls i want to install telnet on my n90017:04
DocScrutinizernoooo way. For telnet V2 you need at very least a 1GHz CPU :-P17:04
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lcukpradeep_, then install it :)17:05
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ccookelcuk: netcat (or the busybox variant) is probably already installed, too :-)17:05
lcukoh hai Charles \o17:05
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pradeep_lcuk, okay thank let me try it17:06
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pradeep_lcuk i can see some  many of them pls which do i install17:07
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lcukpradeep_, the link I offered was not for direct install, use the command line "apt-get install telnet" to put it on17:08
lcukyou can check repositories required using the link though :)17:09
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pradeep_lcuk, it is not in my repo17:09
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lcukpradeep_, then add the extras-devel repository required :)17:12
pradeep_lcuk that is what i wanted to know how to do17:13
* lcuk goes again screen making eyes sore17:13
lcukpradeep_, DocScrutinizer knows which wiki page explains about -devel17:15
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pradeep_DocScrutinizer, please could help me with that17:15
infobotwell, extras-devel is
MohammadAGlcuk, DocScrutinizer might know it, but infobot knows all!17:16
pradeep_infobot, thank you let me try that17:16
infobotsure thing, pradeep_17:16
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lcukMohammadAG, well its a bit misaligned, it would be better to point directly at
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lcukthis is not making my eyes better tho :P closing lid, cya later \o17:18
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MohammadAGinfobot, forget extras-devel17:18
MohammadAG~extras-devel is
infobotMohammadAG: i forgot extras-devel17:18
infobotMohammadAG: okay17:18
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banozguys, does your opencv library contain the highgui features too? mine doesn't17:42
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RST38hRepublican politicians in South Dakota have filed a bill that would require every citizen in the land-locked virtually empty state to buy a gun as of next year.18:11
derfAmerica, fuck yeah.18:11
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DocScrutinizer""I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands""18:20
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DocScrutinizerhooray for National Rifle Association18:21
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derfI used to drive by their headquarters every day on the way to work.18:22
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DocScrutinizerprobably they also think rifles are the more economic medical treatment for the poor18:22
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DocScrutinizer""health insurance for everybody??? you can get a shot from my winchester""18:24
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GAN900RST38h, that's messed up on several levels.18:26
GAN900DocScrutinizer, you will have to take my guns from my cold dead hands.18:27
DocScrutinizerthat == USA?18:27
GAN900DocScrutinizer, using force to require people to own force.18:27
GAN900I get the reasoning behind it, though.18:27
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DocScrutinizeryeahyeah, "if guns get outlawed, only outlaws will get guns" - apply that logic to fission bombs18:29
GAN900More guns, less crime.18:29
GAN900Logical fallacy.18:29
DocScrutinizermore nuklear bombs, less war. (and even beetr war if ever it happens to come to it)18:30
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DocScrutinizerI just wonder if everybody need a .22, or would it be better to get a ak47 or a M134D18:32
RST38hDoc:In reality, most of these pastry-looking US gun owners would not stand a chance when facing a real threat18:32
DocScrutinizerdo my MTHELs count? or will I need a .22 as well, when living in South Dakota?18:33
RST38hDoc: So, no, I am not buying the "more guns - less crime" thing18:33
DocScrutinizermore guns, more shitheads to shoot their wife and neighbour when drunk18:33
DocScrutinizermore Columbines18:34
DocScrutinizermore 12 year old fools shooting their mom thru the wall by accident18:34
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SpeedEvilPastry looking?18:36
DocScrutinizerUSA has highest weapons/nose ratio in the whole civilized world, and afaik also the highest rate of crimes per resident and highest percentage of their population doing time in prison18:36
SpeedEvilIs that the same as a doughy complexion?18:36
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DocScrutinizerso yes, sure this will get better when even more idiots own rifles over there18:37
Sc0rpiusjust look at Japan's crime rate, a country where all guns are forbidden, and most japanese have never ever seen a gun in RL18:37
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DocScrutinizermaybe Darwin will help better when *everybody* gets a gun, so yeah this actually might pan out18:38
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RST38hDoc: I suggest to start by removing all the warning labels first18:38
andre__yay, finally a topic where everybody can have an opinion. welcome to #maemo! :)18:38
RST38hDoc: This way, they will only harm themselves, mostly18:39
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RST38handre__: Would you like to discuss Nokia's PR1.4 plans with us instead? =)18:39
DocScrutinizerI suggest handing a 9" bowie knife to every airline passenger18:40
RST38hIs it one ofthose Klingon knives?18:40
DocScrutinizerRST38h: almost, yeah18:40
GAN900RST38h, if you're a criminal and the likelihood of any random victim having a gun,18:40
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GAN900How likely are you to attempt to take somebody's purse or wallet?18:41
DocScrutinizerlogic consequence, shoot before he will reach the locker where the gun is18:41
* lardman pokes head in to see the usual USA guns argument :)18:41
GAN900I don't get why people want to centralize force in the hands of the government (who runs things like gitmo) or criminals.18:41
RST38hGAN: I will still do it.18:42
lardmanwell people are buying guns in the USA and transporting them over here to use, which is bad18:42
RST38hGAN: Using an elementof surprise of course, from behind, etc.18:42
RST38hGAN: Especially if I really really want my drug fix18:42
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GAN900Guns are the great equalizer. Anybody can deploy the same amount of force regardless of age, gender, creed, color or sexual orientation.18:42
RST38hGAN: Furthermore, as I also have a gun this way, I may just resort to shooting the victim, by surprise18:43
GAN900RST38h, because drug addicts are special operatives.18:43
GAN900It's the utopia fallacy18:43
RST38hIt is not, sorry18:43
GAN900Because something has drawbacks it should be illegal18:43
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GAN900Obviously things will be better when it is.18:43
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RST38hCase in point: Russian Federation in the 90s, when getting a gun has been relatively easy and there weren't any controls18:43
DocScrutinizerGAN900: obviously, look all the rest of civilized world18:44
penguinbaitHowdy General! long time never see!18:44
RST38hPeople shot each other all over the place, stupidly, often to show that they are "cool"18:44
GAN900penguinbait, hey-ho.18:44
GAN900RST38h, hey, getting guns is really easy here, too.18:45
Sc0rpiuswho says PR1.4 will ever exist?18:45
BCMMnokia. also, everybody else.18:45
GAN900RST38h, somehow there aren't gun battles in the street every day.18:45
RST38hAn office worker got himself a gun "to stay safe when walking from work", then shot himself or a bystander, by mistake18:45
GAN900RST38h, I'd argue that your cause and effect there is a little more complicated.18:45
RST38hGAN: Oh there weren't gun battles either18:45
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DocScrutinizerit's just about the bets for the time of rollout. Some say 2014, some say 2180, some bet on 323318:46
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RST38hGAN: Just deaths from stupid, careless gun abuse18:46
andre__RST38h: PR1.4 plans? what PR1.4 plans? :-P18:46
RST38handre__: See? Sit back and enjoy the show.18:46
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DocScrutinizerbut it's definitively confirmed ther will be a PR1.4, in 3700 at the latest18:48
Sc0rpiusyear 3700?18:49
DocScrutinizeryup, what else18:49
GAN900RST38h, dumb people will always be dumb.18:49
GAN900RST38h, but I'd rather have force in the hands of people rather than government agents and criminals.18:49
DocScrutinizerdumb people with guns will be just that: dumb dangerous people18:49
GAN900RST38h, whatever the drawbacks of that will be.18:49
GAN900DocScrutinizer, or cars, chainsaw, and knives.18:50
GAN900Most people aren't that dumb, however.18:50
DocScrutinizerthat's why your gvmt outlawed laserpointers >1.5mW18:50
DocScrutinizerbut pushes guns18:50
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GAN900Besides, gun are FUN. :P18:51
DocScrutinizerthe point is, laserpointers are made in Taiwan, guns are by Smith&Wesson18:51
RST38hGAN: Don'tunderestimate the power of dumb people ;)18:51
GAN900DocScrutinizer, er, and Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Israel, South Korean, etc, etc.18:51
RST38hGAN:Especially nowadays, when law-abiding US citizens are go bonkers all over the place due to starting societal collapse18:52
GAN900RST38h, s/collapse/values shift/18:52
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RST38hGAN: Drives 'em nuts all thesame.18:53
GAN900RST38h, societal changes usually do.18:53
DocScrutinizersure, guns are fun, killing is business, business is good18:54
RST38hGAN: Ironically, it does not matter to bystanders what has driven the mad gunman nuts.18:54
GAN900RST38h, that misses the point.18:54
RST38hWhether it is personal, or political, or he the vending machine behind the corner told him to shoot people18:54
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RST38hGAN: It does not: you look at things case-by-case. I look at statstics.18:55
RST38hWhen you look at statistics, things tend to... change.18:55
GAN900RST38h, lunatic with a gun is an edge case.18:57
GAN900RST38h, I'm around dozens of gun owners a day, nobody's shot anybody yet.18:57
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DocScrutinizerI bet it has been absolute fun for the helicopter pilot to shoot down that Reuters reporter in Iraq with 2" cannon. He probably bragged with the number of kills after his flight. And I hope you feel good when he's back home, living next to your door, and goes buying some .45 gun 'for fun'18:59
RST38hJust takes one18:59
RST38hDoc: Hey, he can probably buy the 2" cannon.18:59
RST38hThey won't sell him the avionics package, but what the hell? :)18:59
GAN900People do stupid shit19:00
GAN900Edge cases19:00
RST38hAnd that is exactly why you do not want to let them do too much stupid shit19:00
DocScrutinizeryeah, 99% edge cases. DAMN19:01
RST38hEspecially in densely populated areas. If they do stupid shit on the countryside, that is generally ok19:01
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, that's an appeal to emotions which is particularly relevant.19:01
GAN900RST38h, alternative is the problem19:01
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DocScrutinizerhere in my posse/quarter I have to walk really far to meet the next non-edge-case person19:03
RST38hGAN: There is plenty of alternatives19:03
RST38hGAN: You do not have to prohibit ALL guns19:03
GAN900RST38h, where do you draw the line?19:03
GAN900That's the slippery slope of all things like that19:03
RST38hGAN: Personally, I would draw it at automatic weaponry19:03
RST38hGAN: And *still* require a signed psychologic evaluation for anything below that19:04
RST38hWith the psychologist signing the evaluation responsible if something goes wrong19:04
RST38hWould probably prohibit carrying guns in large cities, too, but it is already done anyway19:05
GAN900It always tends towards more control19:06
GAN900We don't have to ban ALL drugs.19:06
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RST38hGAN: I think the battle against "control" should start elsewhere19:06
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RST38hGAN: Forget the guns for now. Look at the schools.19:06
RST38hGAN: Where they can ban a child from school for bringing a *toy* gun or kissing a girl19:07
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GAN900RST38h, "this person disagrees with me politically. Crazy!"19:09
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* alterego yawns19:11
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DocScrutinizerWTF?! that idiot, couldn't he bring a *real* gun to school. Probably he'd get away with that. But a *toy*... tztzztzz19:12
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RST38hGAN: That too, by the way19:15
GeneralAntillesWorse: "This person is Jewish. CRAZY!"19:15
RST38hGAN: But I guess labelling political opponents is somewhat normal around the world19:15
RST38hGAN: Same and antisemitism, unfortunately19:15
GeneralAntillesRST38h: so don't give psychologists the power over people's ownership of force. :)19:16
RST38hGAN: Well, you can always choose a psychologist19:16
RST38hBut, again, I do not think the gun ownership or non-ownership is the biggest issue at the moment19:16
GeneralAntillesRST38h: Well, it's the core guarantor of future freedom.19:17
GeneralAntillesWithout that, you really have nothing else.19:17
RST38hGAN: Naah, that is what NRA may like you to think19:18
GeneralAntillesRST38h: certainly a lot easier to guarantee your freedom with a .308.19:18
RST38hGAN: But there are plenty scenarios where you still have you gun and every government/corporation official uses you for a rag19:19
GeneralAntillesRST38h: sure, but when it comes down to it you still have force as an option.19:19
GeneralAntillesWhen you no longer have that option at all, that's a problem.19:19
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RST38hGAN: Hey, you are not going to revolt. Even if you did, the government has got much bigger guns, so your chances are nul19:20
GeneralAntillesRST38h: hardly19:20
GeneralAntillesCitizen soldiers aren't particularly inclined to start killing their friends and neighbors.19:20
RST38hSo, I have no idea what you are going to do with the gun that you cannot more effectively do with, lets us say, a modified Caterpillar19:20
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RST38hGAN: They are not? Hmmm... =)19:21
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GeneralAntillesRST38h: again, edge cases.19:22
DocScrutinizerforce as an option? Sure, as every of the successful revolutions happening recently had success just because the demonstrants all had their own rifles to fight the police/army19:22
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denoguys but the usb provided with the phone, is an usb 1.0 or 2.0?19:23
GeneralAntillesdeno: 219:24
chx2.0 (obviously?)19:24
DocScrutinizerdemonstrants shot in Iran, in Egypt, nobody shot in eastern Berlin, yeah, all just because people had rifles aka "force"19:24
denoI'm speaking about usb host mode19:24
DocScrutinizerdeno: USB hostmode h-e-n has low speed (1.0), full speed (1.1) and high speed (2.0)19:25
denois it possible that the driver doesn't use the maximum possible speed?19:25
DocScrutinizerif the cable is shitty19:26
kerioand usb 3.0 has LUDICROUS SPEED19:26
denoI'm speaking about the maximum speed of the usb 2.019:26
denothe cable should be ok19:26
DocScrutinizerkerio: go suggest it to USB.cert19:26
lcukkerio, thats only if you use a plaid cable19:26
DocScrutinizerdeno: It might well be the case that the whole system in N900 can't sustain a speed of 480Mb/s, but that's not exactly a driver problem then19:28
denoDocScrutinizer, ok cool19:29
denothank you for the info :)19:29
DocScrutinizerdeno: e.g you neither can read nor write eMMC at that speed I guess19:29
kerioDocScrutinizer: /dev/zero should be fast enough19:30
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DocScrutinizeryou could do a dd if=zero of/null and see what it reports19:30
denoDocScrutinizer, but is it a problem of the hen project or just of the phone19:31
DocScrutinizerdeno: the phone19:31
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denoDocScrutinizer, ok19:31
denoDocScrutinizer, thx19:32
denoDocScrutinizer, uhm19:32
deno(sorry for the questions but I'm trying to understand well)19:32
denocould it be solved overclocking the cpu?19:32
denoup to 1Ghz for example19:32
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DocScrutinizerdepends on where's the bottleneck19:33
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denoDocScrutinizer, if is not the cpu, what could be?19:34
villagerdeno: why not say what you're trying to do? as he said, if you're trying to transfer a file, the flash memory just isn't that fast19:34
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kerioDocScrutinizer: i get 275mb here :|19:35
kerioalthough with the default block size19:35
kerioyeah, it's better with 1m19:35
trumeeanybody on the Three network in the UK?19:36
haltdefused to be19:36
trumeeThey have started to charge money if you go above the 1GB limit.19:37
trumeeit wasnt the case before afaik19:37
* haltdef pats giffgaff19:37
trumeehaltdef: giffgaff, no limits?19:38
haltdef200MB/day fup19:38
trumeehaltdef: that is nice19:38
denovillager, yes I'm transferring data at high speed.. is not possible the internal memory?19:38
haltdeflooking for a decent data only plan now, getting a viliv n5 3g for alongside n90019:38
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trumeehaltdef: £15 plan on giffgaff looks good. Unlimited internet=200MB/day ? and do they still piggy back on O2?19:41
haltdefyes and yes19:41
villagerdeno: if you can tune the access pattern for the internal memory, you can probably get the transfer faster...19:41
haltdefhad no coverage problems, exeter area19:41
jacekowskihaltdef: on three?19:42
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jacekowskii'm on t-mobile and they suck where i live and where i work19:42
trumeehaltdef: cambridge outskirts, hardly get an O2 signal19:42
jacekowskio2 is decent-ish19:42
denovillager, cool19:43
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haltdef£10/mo tablet plan on vodafone could be decent19:45
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haltdefhear their network's the fastest19:45
DocScrutinizertrumee: O2loop internet-L = 5GB/month, 25Eur19:45
DocScrutinizertrumee: O2loop internet-M = 1GB/month, 10Eur19:46
trumeei need some free minutes as well.19:46
lardmanI got a £5/month 500GB SIM from O219:46
DocScrutinizerthat's PAYG19:46
lardmanpay monthly19:47
lardmanmonthly contract (for the £5/month thing)19:47
DocScrutinizererr WUT? 500GB19:47
lardmanis enough for casual browsing over the phone link19:47
lardmanThere's wifi round here you know ;)19:48
denothx guyes19:48
denoguys for the info19:48
DocScrutinizerlardman: GIGA???19:48
lardmanor crap19:48
* lardman realises his error19:48
* lardman scales back by ~1e319:48
lcuklol @ 500GB monthly 'casual browsing'19:49
lardmanwell yeah, I guess if you casually browse HD movies :)19:49
* lardman goes back to cursing the MS C compiler's craptastic error messages19:49
keriowell my computer can manage 6.5gb/s, so...19:50
lardmanI mean really: "fde25code_mex.c(998) : error C2059: syntax error : 'for'"19:50
keriolardman: use a while loop19:50
lcuklardman, pastebin!19:50
lardman>3k lines19:50
lcukkerio, loops are for wimps.19:50
lcukthe fragment around line 99819:50
lardmanyes, manually unroll before compiling :)19:51
lcukkerio, recursion and hope the stack is big enough19:51
chxkerio: huh what? you have a computer that could stuff a 6.5 gigabit/s uplink??19:51
lcukwhats the wireless bandwidth for the new graphics cards?19:52
lcuki notice it has so many antennas it looks like a punk19:52
keriochx: well, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=1m said 6.5GB/s19:52
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kerio6.7 actually19:53
lcukkerio, that is not much use19:53
jacekowskimine can handle over 900019:54
keriojacekowski: prove it19:55
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jacekowski10485760000 bytes (10 GB) copied, 0.875556 s, 12.0 GB/s19:55
keriojacekowski: ;_;19:56
jacekowskibut that's just plain memory copy19:56
jacekowskiwell you have dual channel in first place19:57
jacekowskithat makes them go 2x as fast19:57
chxlcuk: 60 ghz19:57
chxlcuk: if you mean WiDi19:57
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jacekowskiand it's 64bits wide19:58
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jacekowskiand x2 for double data rate19:58
lcukchx WHDI, 60hz 1080p over wireless19:58
trxdoesnt matter, you can (only?) have 2Gbit network link19:58
jacekowskiso you have 64x2x2xclock19:58
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keriojacekowski: i'm on a laptop19:58
kerioi can't exactly change the mobo19:58
jacekowskiwell, you probably still have dual channel19:59
jacekowskiso you have 1066MHz clock19:59
jacekowskiso it's 1066MHzx64bitsx2x219:59
jacekowskiso that's19:59
trx"I don't see anything about encryption. Are you supposed to broadcast your donkey porn to the neighbor in the open?"19:59
jacekowskithat's wrong20:00
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chxlcuk: this?20:07
chxlcuk: 5ghz20:07
lcukaccording to that article, it will be the 3Gbit/s one20:09
lcukthats a lot of data OTA20:09
lcukno wonder theres so many antennas20:09
lardmanthat odd error was caused by an extra } finishing the fn early20:09
lardmanshame the compiler doesn't bother to tell you that you've got program statements hanging around without a fn wrapping them20:10
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lcuklardman, my head feels like that today20:10
lardmanconverting from MATLAB single line array ops to lots of for loops is somewhat error prone in my experience20:10
lcuklardman, the error code "C2059" is probably marked as "Make lardman curse in a number of years because he missed the }" :P20:11
lcukwhat are you porting?20:11
lardmanit was only when I pulled the for loop to pieces and noticed a warning about unused variables (which were in the for loop) that I twigged20:11
lardmanheat simulation code20:12
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lcuklardman, >>
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lardmanI've been having some interesting conversations with Nokia Repair20:13
lardmanI sent my original N900 in to see if they would repair it and what it might cost20:14
lcukthey do MATLAB->C support too?20:14
lardmanand got a phone call from a rather officious chap who apparently thought I'd stolen the phone as it was property of Nokia :)20:14
lardmanno, and apparently they don't fix proto machines either20:15
lardmanI told him that I'd not and told him who to contact in Nokia20:15
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lardmantoday I got another call saying that they were keeping the phone, to which I asked whether they would return it to the chap who'd given it to me as that was part of the deal20:15
lardmanthey were not quite sure20:16
lardmanvery odd20:16
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alteregoIs this your Amsterdam loaner?20:16
lardmanI was told "it's going to escalate to the management", to which I answered fine20:16
lcuklardman, :D20:16
lardmanalterego: no, pre-Amsterdam, I didn't bother with an Amsterdam one20:16
alteregoAh, m'kay.20:17
alteregoWell, at least you still have one ;)20:17
lardmanyes, many thanks to Quim for sorting that out20:17
lcukalterego, are your batteries charged up and stuff for tonight? :D20:17
alteregoGot power too :P20:18
alteregoTo be honest I'm in a bit of a bad mood20:18
lardmanlcuk: when's this London get-together then?20:18
lardmanor wherever20:18
alteregoSo I'm gonna have to put on a brave face and just get through it.20:18
lcukalterego, walk in the park, I am only miffed at not being there myself tonight20:19
lcuki just couldnt face a journey like that today20:19
alteregoYeah, well, I packed all my stuff up this morning and moved back in with my parents because I split up with my (ex)gf20:20
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alteregoThink I'm going to be sour for a bit.20:20
lardmanoh dear, sorry to hear that20:21
alteregoIt's okay, I'll get over it eventually. Just wish she'd stop ringing me for apparently no reason.20:21
kerioalterego: is "lol pwnt" too soon?20:21
alteregokerio: :P20:21
kerioalso who decided to split up?20:21
alteregoI ditched her because she cheated on me on Saturday.20:22
alterego2 years of my life wasted on that cow20:22
* alterego chuckles.20:22
keriook, so it's time to man up, hit the gym and quit facebook20:22
alteregof*cking facebook.20:23
alteregoI have been thinking of deleting my account tbh20:23
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alteregoIs that like a natural reaction after splitting up with someone :D20:23
GAN900alterego, delete it.20:23
Proteousisn't it lawyer up?20:23
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SpeedEvilalterego: no - deleting her account is.20:24
lardmankeep your account and start posting photos20:24
alteregoI'm trying not to be harsh20:25
GAN900alterego, something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it."? *ega*20:25
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GAN900kerio, hitting the gym sounds like a plan.20:27
* GAN900 went running last night for the first time in weeks.20:27
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SpeedEvilalterego:  Never know, maybe you'll hit the gym, and across the room, it's love at first sight with a glaswegian bodybuilder named Steve.20:29
Proteousno no, steve is mine!20:29
SpeedEvilWho has his steroid use _COMPLETELY_UNDER_CONTROL_20:29
lardmanonly one reason to run, and that's to make it to the bar before the bell rings for last orders20:29
Proteoushe totaly does, he hasn't hit me in weeks20:29
denoguys using the usb host mode am I able to get a 50 MB/s stream  (nokia n900) ?20:32
SpeedEvilwhat do you mean?20:32
denoSpeedEvil, yes20:32
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denoSpeedEvil, a data transfer20:32
denoat 50 MB/s (it's only an hypothesis)20:33
GAN900lardman, also: drugs.20:33
GAN900lardman, endorphine release. :P20:33
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SpeedEvilI think so. I know there are some performace issues, but that's ~10% of USB2s bandwidth,so it should be fine.20:33
lardmanGAN900: only joking don't worry, though I don't much like running20:33
GAN900lardman, swimming?20:34
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lardmannah, I do Aikido and a fair bit of walking when I actually need to get somewhere, prefer to do something rather than travelling in circles20:34
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lardmanthat's my biggest problem with running and swimming, unless you're going somewhere?20:35
denoSpeedEvil, "I know there are some performace issue" what do you mean? that it doesn't work well20:35
lardmanso I happily swim in the sea to see stuff, but not so keen on swimming pools20:35
SpeedEvildeno: There are technical bandwidth limits on the USB host, as I understand it. What do you want to get working?20:35
lardmanphew, compiled at last20:36
* lardman heads for homw20:36
GAN900lardman, it's about the journey, not the destination? :P20:36
denoSpeedEvil, yes I'm speaking about those technical bandwith limits.. how can I get more info?20:36
lardmancu chaps later assuming I do some Meego/Tab hacking20:36
lcuk\o lardman20:36
lardmanGAN900: it's always about the destination with me! :)20:36
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GAN900Home? *g*20:37
lardmanyeah, am at work20:37
lardmanhmm, getting late now, gone 6.3020:37
SpeedEvildeno: #maemo-hostmode-discussion - though I don't think anyoens there right now20:37
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denoSpeedEvil, thx :)20:38
denoI'm going home now20:38
denosee you!20:38
denothx for the help20:38
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lardmanGAN900: bit slow this evening, only got the bit about "home" as I walked out of the office21:09
GAN900lardman, the pitfalls of text-only communication21:10
lardmanyep :)21:10
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kwtmHi. Having two rotation problems. One is that it rotates when I don't want it to! E.g. X-terminal.  I tried Shift-Ctrl-R to toggle to Don't-Rotate but it doesn't seem to work most of the time. Is there another way? Some GUI setting?21:45
kwtmSorry; to clarify: talking about N900 on Maemo PR 1.221:45
keriomine never rotates21:46
kerioit's stupid anyway21:46
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andre__kwtm: why do you think that X-Terminal supports rotation?21:58
kwtmandre__: Because it rotates. Even though I don't want it to.21:58
andre__ah, sorry, misread your line21:59
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kwtmOkay... will now ask my other question: in rotated mode, the top line ("status line"? whatever) doesn't work. In particular, tapping on the battery/clock/phone signal strength bar fails to bring up the menu for things like "connect to the Internet" (which is pretty important).  Anyone else experience this problem?22:11
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andre__kwtm, it is not implemented.22:12
kwtmandre__: That would explain things. Thanks for info.  I take it it's also not implemented for Maemo PR 1.3 (ie. current version)?22:13
povbotBug 5445: Status menu not available in portrait mode22:13
andre__no, it is not.22:13
lardmanodd that it rotates at all really22:14
lardmanor maybe I've never had the xterm open with the kb closed?22:15
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b0unc3there is anything special I need to do to make autobuilder able to compile a qt home widget ?22:22
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ieatlintit's only midday wednesday here and i'm already frustrated enough with the week to want to hurt small mammals22:49
ieatlintshould be full sized mammals by friday22:50
* Proteous hides his hamster22:50
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ieatlintmaybe should settle for a bird... chinatown sells them live, and people don't get all too upset about that22:51
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RST38hwhy not start directly with humans?22:52
RST38hwhat did birdie do?22:52
ieatlintthe birdie doesn't carry a prison sentence22:53
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RST38hcruelty to animals22:54
RST38hdoes carry some nastiness22:54
ieatlintyes, but disposing of dead animals isn't that suspicious, especially a chicken that is suitable for eating22:55
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ieatlintmaybe at the end of the week i'll move up to humans that people don't care about.... prostitutes, homeless, and customer service reps22:57
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GAN900People care about homeless.23:02
GAN900Prostitutes, too.23:02
GAN900Not sure about the CSRs.23:02
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b-manxnt14: ping!23:12
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: none of the usual kbd shortcuts is supposed to work in xterm. See ctrl-C (copy, or sigint)23:12
RST38his mcspthe same thing as cssu???23:12
RST38hor is it just attila playing official?23:13
MohammadAGachipa playing official :P23:15
Sc0rpiushow come Ctrl-C would work in Xterm?23:15
Sc0rpiusthat's BREAK in any shell23:15
Sc0rpiusif we're talking about vte here you have to mark and then go to menu -> Copy23:17
Sc0rpiusand have to press the arrow button first to mark23:17
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: How does one turn off rotation for either the entire phone or for any particular application?23:21
DocScrutinizerno idea. probably using that magic shortcut in an app that doesn't have raw kbd input like xterm does.23:22
kwtm(without using keyboard...)23:23
kwtmNo, tried the magic shortcut in other apps already.  Hmm...23:23
kwtmOkay, thanks anyway.23:23
DocScrutinizernever heard of any other way than kbd shortcut23:23
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kwtmOkay, unrelated question: is there a calendar app for the N900 that can sync with Google Calendar?23:24
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DocScrutinizerthis really seems #1 in FAQ. Alas I have no answer23:24
Sc0rpiuskwtm what exactly rotates in your phone?23:25
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DocScrutinizerI bet somebody else here does, though23:25
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MrBawbkwtm: there is a google calendar sync app, erminig23:26
anidelhi guys... any bash guru here?23:26
Sc0rpiusDocScrutinizer: Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, Ctrl-X has different meanings in a Unix environment. So any terminal application can't use them for copy/paste/cut23:26
Sc0rpiusI'm not a guru but I can try to help you in ash23:26
DocScrutinizerI'm well aware of that23:26
MohammadAGCTRL+SHIFT+C ftw23:26
anidelwell it's a tricky question, not related to Maemo... it's the way bash executes commands like `/bin/true`23:27
anideli.e. subshells23:27
kwtmSc0rpius: Currently, nothing --although I'm not sure exactly what I did to turn it off.  When it does rotate, then everything rotates, quite irritatingly. So: email, phone, Xterm (right in the middle of an ebook...) etc.  Ctrl-Shift-R seems to have no effect.  Tried multiple combinations with keyboard closed/open.23:27
MrBawbanidel: what aspect of executing commands are you wanting more info on?23:27
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anidelsay I want to do this loop:23:27
kwtmThe whole screen spends 50% of its time doing the flash "rotate screen" animation.  So eventually I just get sick and tired and just open the keyboard to force no rotate.23:28
kwtmAfter a while, it stops doing that but not sure what the trigger is.23:28
anidelwhile `/bin/true` ; do ( cd $DIR; $RUN_COMMAND) & done;23:28
Sc0rpiuskwtm are you sure you didn't install an application for that? 'cos native Maemo desktop doesn't rotate. Only phone & Photos applications23:28
kwtmWasn't there some GUI setting I could use for "do rotate".23:28
anideland before that I want to trap SIGCHLD:23:28
anideltrap bail_out 1723:28
DocScrutinizeravoid signal numbers23:28
anidelthis WORKS fine in bash.. if the command in ( ) SIGCHLDs it's trapped23:29
kwtmSc0rpius: Hmm... I didn't do it deliberately.  Maybe it's not Xterm but the PDF reader?  I can't be sure now but I don't want to activate it again to test because it's such a hassle to turn off.23:29
anidelthjat's not the point, yeah I know that...23:29
anidelthe issue is23:29
anidelthe script has23:29
anidel#!/bin/sh at the beginning23:29
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Sc0rpiuskwtm: every application has a setting for rotation, it's not a global thing, unless you install an app for that23:29
anidelin ubuntu that's dash...23:29
kwtmOkay, if there's no easy way, I'll just deal with it, and open the keyboard when I do.23:29
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anidelnow the SIGCHLD is sent when /bin/true exits!23:29
Sc0rpiusyou can change it to #!/bin/bash or whatever your bash is installed, right?23:29
anideland bails out!23:29
anidelyeah but I can't go that path here..23:30
kwtmSc0rpius: I was aware that each app has a rotation setting, but I wasn't sure why it wasn't responding.  Also because my N900 takes about 3-6 seconds to respond (that's another story altogether --don't even get me started).23:30
anidelso I am not sure now23:30
Sc0rpiusyou don't have bash installed nor you can install it?23:30
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DocScrutinizeryeah, sure. waiting for SIGCHLD is a weird idea anyway23:30
anidelif bash and dash behave differently when seeing the `...`23:30
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anidelor sorry br23:30
Sc0rpiusall Ubuntus have /bin/bash...23:31
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kwtmThanks, though.23:31
Sc0rpiusyou don't have to deal with dash23:31
kwtmOkay, off to job interview.  Bye all!23:31
Sc0rpiusgood louck with that kwtm23:31
DocScrutinizerSIGCHLD is sent whenever *any* child process terminates23:31
merlin_1991good luck23:31
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DocScrutinizerit's not restricted to subshells23:31
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Sc0rpiusmodest is changing PIDs it's weird, maybe it's crashing and restarting23:32
Sc0rpiusand that's not good.23:32
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DocScrutinizeranidel: a shell is starting child processes all the time. If you want to check/trap a particular process quitting, you need other methods than a trap on SIGCHLD23:35
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DocScrutinizeranidel: e.g ``(start_child; kill -SIGUSR1 `ppid`)&23:36
javispedrois everyone on tmo fscking crazy? =)23:37
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RST38hyes, javispedro23:37
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Sc0rpiuswhat's tmo anyway23:37
DocScrutinizerhas it been different any time ?23:37
ProteousI wear gloves and a mask when I surf there23:37
infobot[tmo], or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo23:37
ZogGlet's make community-ovi, let's take Nokia b* down23:38
RST38hProteous: Oh,so that gloved, masked lemming were you!23:38
RST38hZogG: Not that difficult23:38
Sc0rpiusoh ok23:38
javispedrothe latest flash craze is very entertaining. and to top it off yet another thread about medfield n9.23:39
ProteousSSShhh, I don't want ieatlint to kill me...23:39
RST38hZogG: Two weeks of PHP and it is done23:39
RST38hjavispedro: who cares...23:40
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: LALALALALALALA I don't hear you (fingers in ears)23:40
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RST38hOk, the CSSU thread has been successfully overrun by screaming lemmings23:41
Sc0rpiusflash craze?23:41
ZogGDocScrutinizer, i herd the rumors that you don't surf or read internets, you just download them23:41
javispedroSc0rpius: zombie "flash 10.1" making a come back.23:41
* DocScrutinizer starts a tmo thread "I got flash12, suckers :-P"23:42
Sc0rpiusflash updates in microb? very unlikely.23:42
* RST38h has flash10 installed btw23:42
ZogGjavispedro, too old, flashover9000 is way cooler23:42
ZogGRST38h biatch =)23:43
ZogGRST38h, it's oe of the things i don't need but i do want =)23:43
javispedroRST38h: and you use it? :)23:43
RST38hThat evaluation version offered at TI site is pretty much the same kind of build as our version 9, just a bit newer23:43
RST38hjavispedro: not really, I rarely used it to begin with23:43
* javispedro knew23:43
RST38hjavispedro:but it plays youtube crap and some games too23:43
DocScrutinizerRST38h: my condolences23:43
javispedrothe day they move youtube to f10 I'm fscked I guess.23:44
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ZogGjavispedro, but i liked that we only mobile that had flash to troll applefags =)23:44
Sc0rpiuswe all will be fucked23:44
ZogGDocScrutinizer so are the rumors true?23:44
Sc0rpiusonly mobile?23:45
DocScrutinizerZogG: rumour is always true, i heard23:45
Sc0rpiusmy gf has an old Nokia E51 and that old piece of crap can browse youtube no problems23:45
Sc0rpiusI think all Nokias have flash23:45
RST38hcool, man23:45
ZogGDocScrutinizer, as well as iheard Egypt had no internets as you stopped seeding it on your internet-torrents tracker23:46
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DocScrutinizernah, they just missed my announcement to switch over to p2p wlan network23:46
ZogGif anyone wants good internet you need to prey to DocScrutinizer and sacrifice 2 babies at the begining of every month for him23:47
DocScrutinizerthen were surprised when the old crap gone down23:47
* javispedro ponders teasing the lemmings with screenshots of alternative OSes on N900, only to never say how to run them.23:47
ZogGDocScrutinizer, actually it was good that we could use their ipv4 as we were out of ours :)23:47
ZogGjavispedro what do you mean?23:48
RST38hjavispedro: they do not care, but fabricate some iphone game screenshots, and they will be sold23:48
Sc0rpiusevery alternative OS on N900 sucks23:48
Sc0rpiusthe only thing they do work is for show them off to friends23:48
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DocScrutinizerSc0rpius:  should suffice for that23:49
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javispedroomg vmware on extras-devel23:51
Sc0rpiusthat "looks" nice but they are so friggin' slow is unbearable23:51
SpeedEvilvmware- for wince?23:52
SpeedEvilDo I vaguely remember something about vmware on n810?23:52
javispedrosee video above23:53
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DocScrutinizerrunning winCE and AndroiD23:53
DocScrutinizergood enough for show off23:54
lardman~curse HAM23:54
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infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, HAM !23:54
andre__...maybe better as a Windows XP Software Center or so23:54
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achipaRST38h: MohammadAG: playing official what ?23:56
anidelDocScrutinizer, no I need SIGCHLD to catch interrupts from the keyboard, do something then quit23:56
anidelDocScrutinizer, I really don't get why the behavior is different from BASH and DASH23:56
DocScrutinizerSIGCHLD for kbd? o.O23:56
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DocScrutinizerwhat's dash?23:57
anidela shell Ubuntu is using instead of sh23:57
DocScrutinizerdo you mean messybox?23:57
javispedroslightly better than messybox, comes from some debian code23:57
DocScrutinizeranidel: you used signal number instead symbolic name?23:57
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anidelyes .. not sure it should matter.. let me check23:58
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DocScrutinizernever use signal numbers. They differ from arch to arch23:58
anidelyeah if I use CHLD is the same.. with dash it bails out when `/bin/true` quits, on bash it doesn't23:59
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anidelI know, this is the same arch, same machine...23:59
anidelso it doesn't matter..23:59
anidelin fact, I just used CHLD and same behavior.. it's dash and bash that behave differently...23:59
DocScrutinizermaybe dash is some messybox in disguise?23:59
anidelno idea. never heard of it until today :)23:59
Sc0rpiusjust don't use dash :)23:59
anidelI can't...23:59

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