IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-01-24

trumeenice box,
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wmaronefriends of mine had an htpc set up so each part was dangling from fishing line00:04
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pupnikebay: Oric-1 6502 microcomputer
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MohammadAGalterego, columbus is how many lines again?00:34
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alteregocan't remember, I'd have to check.00:36
alteregoover 8k00:36
jacekowskijust do display couple pictures?00:37
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MohammadAGjacekowski, read the code, it does more :P00:38
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MohammadAGalterego, *00:40
MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/columbus-0.9.3/src] > cat `find` 2>/dev/null | wc -l00:40
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MohammadAGalterego, hope you don't mind
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alteregoAwww, thanks :)00:46
alteregothat doesn't even include the libs or plugins :P00:46
MohammadAGknew i forgot something00:47
alteregoIt's okay, you got your point across and I appreciate the sentiment. :)00:48
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pupnikare there curved displays yet?  I want a linux+arm coffeecup00:49
alteregoYes, there are00:50
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alteregoNot sure how useful an arm powered mug would be though00:55
Paulyhey what do u guys think is the most coolest app for fremantle?00:55
pupnikalterego: some people would buy it based on the novelty of a computer-cup00:55
pupnikrun pacman in demo mode on it00:55
pupnikpicture slideshow etc00:56
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alteregoYeah, it'd have to be cost effective though00:57
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Paulycolumbus seems cool00:57
* MohammadAG sees eveyone mentioning their app00:57
alteregoIt's gonna get a lot cooler00:57
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Paulyi just found the my-maemo.com00:58
alteregoAfter 1.0 that is, once all the features are stable the v2 road map is all about the coolness00:58
Paulydoes it have compass?00:58
alteregomy-maemo is the bain of my existence.00:58
MohammadAGyes, gps based00:58
MohammadAGwhat's "bain"?00:59
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alteregoYes, due to the absence of an inbuilt digi compass :(00:59
jacekowskiinbuilt is incorrect00:59
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johnxMohammadAG, probably means 'bane'01:00
alteregoYes, that too01:00
johnxbut yeah builtin / inbuilt is just a English dialect thing AFAICT01:00
MohammadAGwhat's bane?01:00
Paulywow so does the my maemo have diff apps then repo?01:00
pupnikwish i could enable javascript for just one page (tab) in a browser01:00
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MohammadAGi hate my-maemo01:01
alteregoPauly: it's just a review site, it catalogs apps from extras and testing and devel repos01:01
alteregoMaybe others'01:01
alteregoMohammadAG: me too01:01
MohammadAGoh, that01:01
MohammadAGso it links to devel?01:01
MohammadAGit's what symbian brought you01:02
alteregoIt's lame because I always get 1 review from a whining jap that can't use it.01:02
MohammadAGbesides me - damn that's cheesy01:02
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MohammadAGi hate it cause it's based on the concept that symbian has no central place for apps01:03
MohammadAGthat's a retarded concept for maemo, repos are there01:03
johnxalterego, consider getting someone to do a Japanese translation? :D01:03
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MohammadAGand has a rating system01:03
MohammadAGlol johnx01:03
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johnxand the more disconnected review sites there are, the less useful they become01:03
MohammadAGthere's also that site for maemo warez01:04
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DocScrutinizergrr, shouldn't read the wl1251 pk inj thread. It always makes me want to kick or beat up assholes01:06
johnxwarez for linux. heh. I was always a bit confused about stuff like that, but I guess it's to make the windows script kiddies feel comfortable when they switch01:06
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MohammadAGalterego, are you rich?01:13
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MohammadAGColumbus is a project more big and more complex than mine and if they don't ask for donations...perhaps a reason exists (a sponsor? an university-research? a sand-box for develop a sellable product? they are rich from family? :P)01:13
jacekowskii wish i would be rich01:13
pupnikepson 50mhz 486 'Internet Tablet' on sale for ebay
MohammadAGalterego, the only explanation from his choices is that you're rich01:15
MohammadAGthat's why you're making columbus01:15
alteregoMohammadAG: I'm replying now ;)01:15
MohammadAGalterego, k, bill gates01:15
MohammadAGTom Gates01:16
MohammadAGdoesn't sound too bad01:16
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MohammadAGisn't there also a big project on maemo that's free?01:21
MohammadAGcan't remember it01:21
alteregoThere's loads of big projects, I doubt Columbus is that large compared to others tbh01:22
alteregoI bet maemo mapper is pretty large, for instance.01:22
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MohammadAGcanola looks big01:24
alteregoCanola was funded by indt, (nokia r&d)01:25
alteregoIt is FOSS though01:25
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alteregoI believe that's hobbyist01:26
MohammadAGbut it's foss with no donate button01:26
alteregoYeah, there's a lot of apps that don't have donate buttons :)01:27
pupnikwe totally need better local dns caching proggies01:27
pupniki want every lookup to go into a textfile in /etc/hosts format01:27
alteregoneat idea01:28
alteregoThen on failure does a clean lookup01:28
mikhasand then be burned when the DNS actually *does* update01:28
alteregoAnd marks that domain as "dynamic"01:28
mikhasah yes01:28
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alteregoCould do by developing a small dns server.01:29
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pupniki want a log of changes01:29
pupnikjust now i had some very big sites fail to resolve01:29
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alteregoDoc had a problem like that last week01:30
alteregoCan't remember if it was his fault or what :)01:31
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gregoapupnik: would dnsmasq or unbound do what you are looking for?01:44
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pupnikhmm ty gregoa01:44
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nox-i thought n900 already ran dnsmasq?01:45
xim_how do you change the ringtone on the n900?  i cant find it anywhere in the settings menu?01:45
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gregoanox-: right, dnsmasq is running on my n90001:47
jacekowskixim_: you can01:48
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gregoaxim_: settings -> profiles01:48
xim_ahhh the profile thing is a button, i thought it was just a label.  thanks01:50
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xim_how can i change the background from my themes background to "the milkyway galaxy background" which i have installed?01:54
BCMMxim_: desktop menu01:55
xim_ah thanks01:55
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GeneralAntillesUgh, too many MeeGo mailing lists.02:00
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xim_does anyone know where the settings to recaller are saved?  it used to crash all the time, so i did a factory restore on my phone, it worked a bit, then it would just go green and stay that way, then i uninstalled and reinstalled, now it wont turn green02:00
xim_id like to just blow away the settings before i totally give up on it, it was probably the most useful thing on my n90002:01
xim_i cant find any .recaller in ~ or ~/.config02:01
VenemoGeneralAntilles: +102:05
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pupnikxim_: i'm not sure what that is for02:22
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MohammadAGnight peeps02:33
pupnikcu MohammadAG02:34
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peregrinare all the build utilities and includes available for maemo, eg. gcc automake libtool libc-dev etc?02:40
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peregrinon the device itself?02:41
wmaronenot on the device itself02:43
wmaronenot by default at least02:43
peregrinof course :) would i just need to add the Fremantle SDK repo? is this done at all?02:45
wmaronesome people do, however none of the tools are configured to run from /opt02:45
wmaroneso you'll need to make sure there's space on your root device02:46
peregrindamn, that problem still huh...02:46
wmaronewell, that problem will be there until the root device is huge02:46
wmaroneand it'll always be there on the N90002:46
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peregrinits so annoying they have /usr/include already filled. else it may be possible to mount in opt...02:49
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peregrinmy itty bitty netbook cannot handle the hd space of a scratchbox install. it seems to install literally everything.02:58
peregrinmaybe i could run nfsd or something on my n900?02:58
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DocScrutinizerwmarone: not exactly correct. You don't need a huge root, if you got a sane partitioning06:40
DocScrutinizerperegrin_: wmarone: see06:41
infobotoptification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence306:41
DocScrutinizerbtw same is true for /var06:42
DocScrutinizerif done right from beginning, a sane partitioning wouldn't need any kinky /opt at all06:43
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peregrin_yeah so i had heard.07:04
peregrin_nice title07:05
peregrin_im thinking /opt mount might come after /usr/lib is needed, so moving it entirely to /opt is out. maybe including a separate folder in LD path or whatev....07:06
peregrin_i never did hear of a nice, graceful solution07:06
pupnik_DocScrutinizer: what would be 'right' partitioning for n900?07:07
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: is that a rhetoric question?07:08
peregrin_pupnik_: an overlay on the mmc07:08
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pupnik_i think i understand the reasons for the opt system..07:09
peregrin_just like openwrt does it, an overlay.07:09
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: I think you don't07:09
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peregrin_required binaries to run on /, the rest on /opt.07:09
DocScrutinizerthat's what FHS says, yes07:10
wmaronethe claimed reason is due to onenand speed vs. eMMC speed07:10
peregrin_i think its that thing they didnt want to do right07:11
pupnik_so i have an angstrom filesystem in 280 MB right now07:11
pupnik_with gcc and my dev libs07:11
peregrin_oh well, at least its debian based07:11
DocScrutinizerthe whole point is they got some binaries in /usr/(s)bin that evidently had to go to /(s)bin - e.g PA07:13
DocScrutinizerinstead of fixing this, they invented optification07:13
wmaroneeven then, 256MB is critically small07:14
DocScrutinizerthe reason probably is that there's no feasible way to do a SSU to a sane partitioning, from a system that's not using eMMC at all for binaries, like PR1.0/1.107:14
peregrin_better than 4MB07:14
DocScrutinizerwmarone: nonsense, you can have a system with a rootfs as small as 16MB, just big enough to hold the bare minimum as defined by FHS07:16
peregrin_yeah, i agree. the root could be really small if they just set it up to use /opt correctly.07:16
DocScrutinizereverything else *may* go to mounted auxiliary volumes07:17
DocScrutinizernot /opt, peregrin_ . FHS and /usr and /var07:17
peregrin_im almost thinking there were systems that could not handle multiple PATHs...07:17
peregrin_whatev. /opt or /usr/local, its the same thing, FHS or not.07:18
peregrin_FHS is codification.07:18
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peregrin_cofification is the writing down of *existing* law.07:18
peregrin_in the same respect, fhs is the reflection of best practices.07:19
peregrin_this is obviously not best.07:19
RobbieThe1stCan anyone test something for me? Anyone not using backupmenu(or willing to remove it for a test)?07:19
peregrin_fhs would have been nice. best practices would have been nicer.07:19
RobbieThe1stI need someone to install bootmenu-n900 v1.9(latest in repo), and reboot with the keyboard open.07:20
peregrin_bootmenu? too rich for my blood.07:21
RobbieThe1stIt's just a package in extras-devel; no relation to multiboot or u-boot.07:22
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RST38hwell. moo.07:45
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MohammadAGmoo RST38h07:53
Necci smell mass brainfail07:54
Neccit is monday morning?07:54
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MohammadAGpretty much, unless you live two globe spins before us07:55
keriothe most you can get is one half and a couple of hours07:55
SpeedEvilStill Sunday in some places.07:56
Necci live on the mars07:56
RST38hWhat US state?07:57
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DocScrutinizerkerio: Mars will probably become a colony of India08:06
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ^^^08:06
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jukwas about to post, power went down :(08:08
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jukso i downloaded wikipedia dump older version, cause no pics in the newest i could see, but it's status inactive, what do i do?08:09
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juki started downloading the older one by someones suggestion, that i'll be able to see the pics08:11
jukexciting, it's 8.06 tarred :)08:12
jukwere downloading like month already08:14
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DocScrutinizerI'd like to see a dump for download08:17
RST38hExpecting to go the way of
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DocScrutinizerjust thinking there's a whole lot of situations where you'd need the wealth of info from wiki locally available, along the rationale why web based man pages are usually nonsense08:27
meceDocScrutinizer, yep08:29
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DocScrutinizeralso compensating the lack of the ought-to-be free pdf copy of O'Reilly "maemo unleashed" that should have shipped with every N900, to complement the product with a user manual that's entitled for that name08:32
jukDocScrutinizer: i think we should contact maemo maintainers to release the dump, they should have backups08:34
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DocScrutinizers/O'Reilly/Addison Wessley/.08:34
jukthat sweet ofcourse08:35
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jukwhat about pics from wikipedia, why i can't see a single picture08:35
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jukhow to activate shit, it's inactive08:39
jukDocScrutinizer: or you need curl and shell skils do grab the dump, and put here a link, so we all can download it, just idea08:43
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DocScrutinizerjuk: the wiki servers are already slow and much too often down08:44
juki see08:45
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DocScrutinizerI'd think they could handle some rsync, but for sure no massive "spider" attack08:47
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DocScrutinizerI once grabbed wiki.openmoko via wget, and while I really tried to keep out all the special pages, it still downloaded something like 10 times what's really needed08:49
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jukhaha, the trick was to disable the newest one09:27
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jukim crying, no PICS in 2010-01-16 either!09:33
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nzehi, i'm trying to use the rescue initrd as described on
nzeI get the n900 to boot into the rescue system, but then i'm a bit lost11:17
psycho_oreosyou might also want to ask that in #meego as well11:18
nzepsycho_oreos: thanks, i'll do that too11:18
nzethe keyboard seems to be in qwerty mode, but i can't figure out how to type anything other than [a-zA-Z], especially no dashes or slashes, so i dont see how i'd go about mounting the root partition..11:20
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DocScrutinizer51that's indeed annoying.11:32
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nid0bleh, need a new nas :(11:34
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DocScrutinizer51errr, how would I create a desktop icon (any kind) to open a particular file in Notes?11:40
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DocScrutinizer51more generic: how to place 'project' files on desktop and - on clicking them - open them with their associated app (the usual beaviour on very usual desktop)11:42
infobotDocScrutinizer51 meant: more generic: how to place 'project' files on desktop and - on clicking them - open them with their associated app (the usual beaviour on every usual desktop)11:43
fralswrite a wrapper script that looks up mimetype and performs the correct action? ;o11:45
RST38hActually, you can make a cusotm desktop file do this11:46
RST38hwhere it has execution line, type "/usr/bin/notes filename.txt" or something like this11:46
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DocScrutinizer51seems hd has a blind spot there11:49
RST38hhd has a lot of blind spots11:50
RST38hthis one is by no means a large one11:51
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* RST38h sighs and goes back to watching Android device release news11:53
* MohammadAG waves11:53
RST38hHeya, Mohammad11:54
MohammadAGmorning RST38h11:54
SpeedEvilRST38h: N9 is coming out with Android.11:54
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RST38hSpeed: Nah, it will be running WinXP.11:55
MohammadAGpfft, Win711:55
MohammadAGand it'll be ARM11:55
MohammadAGrunning Win7 under qemu11:55
SpeedEvilNaah - WinXP, an ARM version.11:55
SpeedEvilSpecially for nokia.11:56
AppiahWhy not WinME? atleast you could shit done on that OS11:56
MohammadAGis the N9 the new Duke Nukem Forever?11:56
RST38hMohammad: it is the new Amiga.11:56
fralshey duke nukem forever is coming out 3rd of may11:57
fralsor was it 12th?11:57
MohammadAGI think I didn't exist Amiga-times11:57
MohammadAGfrals leaked the N9 release date, May 3 or May 12!11:58
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RST38hMohammad: too bad, it was ages ahead of its time11:58
fralsthe trailer is awesome for dnf ;D11:58
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MohammadAGhe's using coded talk to leak stuff, his last message means the N9 sucks :P11:59
RST38hI think we should apply thermorectal cryptoanalysis here11:59
MohammadAGdo it12:00
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* RST38h goes off to heat up the iron12:00
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: try osso_notes --help; it clearly states how to use notes ;-P12:00
RST38hDoc: Freaking sh....12:02
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MohammadAGalterego, ping12:09
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alteregoMohammadAG: about to have a shower, I'll talk to you in a few minutes.12:12
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: indeed. FFS! Need to hack up some ~/.notes or gconf key, just because Nokia devels once again just did what gui designers asked for. Spank them hard for being lazy and nasty12:12
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Venemogood morning everyone12:15
SpeedEvilVenemo: Your task for today is to convince RST38h that it is a good morning.12:16
DocScrutinizerI'd be interested in that argumentation as well :-/12:17
VenemoRST38h: this is a good morning!12:18
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DocScrutinizergrrrr, .osso/osso-notes/.g_keyfile   .osso/osso-notes/.permanent_state12:29
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alteregoMohammadAG: pong12:32
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alteregoIt is indeed a good mornikng12:33
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RST38hVenemo: Is it, really?12:40
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VenemoRST38h: yes, it is :)12:43
VenemoRST38h: give me reasons why not!12:43
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toadpolehey someone help me out here? i just got my class 10 micro sd, and the write speed is 16 mb/s in mass storage mode, but 4 mb/s when i put it into my card reader... is it genuine?12:58
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chxthat's fairly impossible to say12:59
Venemotoadpole: obviously there is an issue with the card reader12:59
chxto boot , class 10 is only 10 MByte/s not 1612:59
alteregoIs the card reader USB 2.0 ?12:59
toadpoleit should be.. no way to check, though.. i was just wondering, when copying to the card in mass storage mode, does it buffer the data on the phone, or copy directly?13:02
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toadpoleany way to benchmark sd on the n900?13:02
alteregoIt should copy directly, there maybe be a small about of buffering but when transfering large files it shouldn't affect your statistics.13:02
toadpolei tried copying a 1.14 gb file, gave a constant 16 mb/s13:03
toadpolethough its not very fast copying in filebox13:03
alteregoCopies on device are awful ..13:04
toadpolethat's to be expected, then?13:04
alteregoThe N900 is quite a good sd card reader when plugged in in mass storage, should give you good USB 2.0 speeds.13:04
timeless_xchatiirc there's a shared bus13:05
alteregoAt least, I've not had problems tbh.13:05
alteregootoh, the internal SD card reader on my laptop is quicker.13:05
alteregoBy maybe 2-3Mb/s13:05
timeless_xchatwhich means copying from one point on the bus via the cpu(?) to another point mostly sucks13:05
timeless_xchatonly using the bus once is much better13:06
toadpolethough i'm just wondering, class 10 would imply 10 mb/s write speed, right? how come i'm getting 16, then?13:06
alteregotoadpole: these things aren't an exact science. a class 10 card maybe perform better or worse.13:07
alteregoThe quality of SD cards varies.13:07
toadpoleyeah, though that much of a difference? wouldn't that be like a 7200 rpm hdd performing at 10000 rpm?13:07
timeless_xchatnews near you: Helsinki R Kioski Newsagent Robbed at Knifepoint13:07
timeless_xchat... welcome to HEL13:08
alteregotoadpole: I don't know, as I don't know what you're doing to benchmark this stuff :P13:08
alteregotoadpole: you might be getting megabytes confused with megabits for all I know :P13:08
alteregoJust be happy that your card appears to be performing well at least :)13:08
toadpolethat's what i'm using13:08
toadpolethe main thing is, meego needs a class 6 minimum13:09
alteregoI use Class 4 with MeeGo13:09
alteregoAnd it works fine for me.13:09
toadpoleno performance flaws, then?13:09
alteregoIn fact my class 4 works better than a lot of class 6s :D13:09
alteregoAt least from the benchmarks I was generating for our 1.1 images last year.13:09
alteregotoadpole: we were measuring startup times of applications (firefox in particular) and I Was getting, with my class 4, some of the best.13:10
alteregoWe actually used my benchmarks for our QA afaik13:10
Venemoalterego: how much better is the eMMC?13:10
alteregoVenemo: it should be equivalent to a class 1013:11
toadpolewell, i guess i'll give it a go, then... though i just wanted to know if i got ripped off, this 16 gig cost me 49 usd13:11
Venemoalterego: sounds nice13:11
alteregotoadpole: well, it sounds like you're getting good performance from it.13:11
alterego(At least in the N900)13:11
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alteregoMeeGo app startup times are slow, so you will hopefully be better off than with a C4 card, but I think most of us that are doing MeeGo work are using C4 cards.13:12
toadpolecould you possibly do me a favor and see what speed your class 4 copies at in mass storage mode?13:12
eichiis it better to connect the n900 all the time to usb power, if i'm at the laptop and unplug, if it is full or doenst matter much?13:12
alteregoeichi: it doesn't matter much.13:12
alteregoeichi: mine is connected all the time because I'm developing and using it as a 3G modem.13:13
eichialterego: buy a new battery all, maybe 2 years should enaught or?13:13
alteregoI've had it almost dead on a year and not had any problems.13:13
MohammadAGeMMC is awesome for MeeGo13:13
alteregoWhich reminds me, it's my N900s birthday next week.13:13
MohammadAGjust partition it with gparted13:13
alteregoMohammadAG: what did you want earlier? :)13:14
alteregoMohammadAG: also, I thought you said you were going to donate last night? If you did, I've not got any indication :D13:14
DocScrutinizereMMC write ass rage = 12MB/s13:15
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MohammadAGalterego, I forgot :/13:16
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toadpolewell, thanks guys, much appreciated!13:16
alteregoDocScrutinizer: "write ass rage"?13:16
MohammadAGalterego, also, pounds rejected on my card :P13:16
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MohammadAGalterego, mass storage13:16
alteregoMohammadAG: it's okay, was just curious.13:16
MohammadAGdrop the m and the sto13:16
MohammadAG= ass rage13:17
alteregoI thought DocScrutinizer was being kinky ..13:17
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what makes timeless_xchat think OMAP IF MMC1 and IF MMC2 are a shared common bus13:18
eichiis there a howto, to use n900 as modem? maybe i need this to next weeks13:19
DocScrutinizerMMC2 to eMMC even has 8 data bit, while uSD IF has 413:19
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DocScrutinizers/uSD/MMC1 uSD/13:21
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: MMC2 to eMMC even has 8 data bit, while MMC1 uSD IF has 413:21
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alteregoeichi: plug it in and use it :)13:22
alteregoeichi: what OS are you using?13:22
timeless_xchatdocscrutinizer: from memory, perf was abysmal for certain paths13:22
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CarnequeI set shortcuts to my desktop, but the icons are just a few pixels WxL.  Any ideas why icons for htop, nmap, and IFTraf Monitor are so tiny?13:22
MohammadAGrunning MeeGo on the eMMC is much faster than using a uSD13:22
MohammadAGprobably cause swap's on the uSD...13:22
MohammadAGlast exam the day after tomorrow :D13:22
timeless_xchatalthough that may have been the fault of something else13:23
eichialterego: mamo5 latest and archlinux latest13:23
DocScrutinizeryeah, when using both interfaces, you run into swap hell after some 200MB copied13:23
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alteregoeichi: when you connect the N900 in PC suite mode, a new serial device should apear in /dev ttyACM213:23
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DocScrutinizerand swap definitely shares eMMC bus, with MyDocs13:23
alteregoYou can use that as a modem device.13:23
eichialterego: ah okay, means i just need a general modem software then13:23
eichiokay, cool13:24
eichialterego: which programm do you prefer for that? (just use wicd for all network things at the moment, never used a modem)13:24
alteregoAnd your operator internet settings.13:24
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: maybe YOUR swap is on uSD13:24
MohammadAGyeah, on MeeGo it is13:25
alteregoeichi: I use ubuntu/gnome/network-manager works out of the box13:25
Venemohey MohammadAG13:25
alteregoeichi: has a little setup wizzard where you choose operator etc.13:25
timeless_xchatoh, right, swap13:25
eichiokay, thanks, i will try later13:25
MohammadAGhi Venemo13:25
VenemoMohammadAG: how're you?13:25
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MohammadAGcrying over the lack of support for a perfectly good fingerprint sensor13:26
eichiDocScrutinizer can meego with n900 call and sms and does it run usable (speed i mean, bugs are okay)13:26
MohammadAGN900 no longer made by nokia <-- tmo's on crack today13:26
alteregoeichi: yes, yes and yes.13:26
alteregoeichi: not constantly though, power management isn't done yet.13:27
eichii just saw some videos on youtube, that looks very slow13:27
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alteregoeichi: yeah, old videos,13:27
MohammadAGOMG alterego
alteregoIt runs quite well now after first boot, though again, app startup time is a little slow.13:27
alteregofennec is quite heavy.13:27
timeless_xchatanyway, my point was merely that some efforts to *measure* perf run afoul of a shared bus13:27
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eichiokay, then i will try a multiboot with that, if i have a microSD and exams are over13:27
alteregoMohammadAG: :D13:28
DocScrutinizer51alterego: and pwer mgmt won't get mature ever13:28
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: ever the pessimist.13:28
MohammadAGthis is freaking cool13:28
DocScrutinizer51no, simple facts13:28
eichialterego: is megoo debian derivate? does it use qt as default?13:28
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: what facts?13:28
alteregoeichi: it's not debian no, and yes it is all based on Qt.13:29
MohammadAGred hat, not debian13:29
DocScrutinizer51a prper PM needs to get designed into every bit of a system13:29
DocScrutinizer51meego failed on this13:29
MohammadAGhmm, how?13:29
eichihm, this is like suse with rpm packages?13:29
alteregoeichi: yes13:29
DocScrutinizer51and I bet they won't nuke and start from scratch13:29
VenemoMohammadAG: " N900 no longer made by nokia " -> wut?13:29
timeless_xchatrpm, not red hat13:29
eichiVenemo: now its made by McDonalds ;D13:29
DocScrutinizer51ergo: no proper PM on meego ever13:30
Venemoeichi: wtf?13:30
eichiVenemo: joke13:30
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: why not?13:30
MohammadAGVenemo, tmo post13:30
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: I think that's a rather broad and silly statement.13:30
SpeedEvilI can still buy nokia on
korhojoa_Hey, anyone know where the wep/wpa(2) keys are stored for the wlan connections?13:30
MohammadAGyeah, it's part of happy meals now13:30
timeless_xchatspeedevil : availablility for purchase is a function of stock13:30
korhojoa_buy three happy meals, get a n90013:30
SpeedEvilIt says 'temporarily out of stock'13:30
korhojoa_you need some coupon thing13:30
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DocScrutinizer51alterego: I'm not in a mood to argue13:31
timeless_xchatand isn't necessarily connected to manufacturing13:31
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: with the exception of the accelerometer polling you mentioned yesterday, what other systems aren't adequate to your power management requirements?13:31
SpeedEvilRElated to the above stock query.13:31
andre900korhojoa: in gconf13:31
SpeedEvilDoes anyone know where to purchase replacemetnt rearbuds for rthe headset?13:31
MohammadAGalterego, keep in mind that MeeGo is a handwarmer at the moment :P13:31
MohammadAGtill the bug on the tracker is fixed13:32
alteregoDepends where you put the N900, I like it down my trousers.13:32
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DocScrutinizer51alterego: explain to me how meego architects could fail so elementarily on sensorfw, and maybe I admit they might have done a proper job on all the other subsystems13:33
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korhojoa_andre900: where?13:33
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DocScrutinizer51until then I assume equal incompetence across all meego development13:33
SpeedEvilOh - that's nice. Ebay has 'original WH-205's for 3.29.13:34
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MohammadAGalterego, that sounds... weird13:34
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: I'm just saying that with the amount of people working on it your're making massive accusations that you can't actually back up.13:34
MohammadAGor maybe I'm too much of a perv13:34
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but you're sort of trolling :P13:34
timeless_xchatshouldn't meego trolling be elsewhere?13:35
alteregotimeless_xchat: that too ;)13:35
DocScrutinizer51no, I'm just tossing over another notion on your "yet"13:35
MohammadAGyeah, let's switch tabs to #meego13:36
chxSpeedEvil: Original by Nokla ;)13:36
* timeless_xchat isn't in there atm :)13:36
timeless_xchat /var/lib/gconf/system/osso/connectivity/IAP13:37
DocScrutinizer51alterego: actually your statement "just no proper PM *yet*" was way more silly and bold than my reply13:37
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: I'm sure Stskeeps would be very interested to hear what you have to say about sensorfw/that-kernel-driver ..13:37
timeless_xchator something like that for keys fwiw13:37
timeless_xchat=> korhojoa13:37
DocScrutinizer51alterego: he's not13:37
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: m'hmm ..13:37
DocScrutinizer51heasked 'is it upstream?'13:37
timeless_xchat(use tab completion in xterm)13:37
SpeedEvilchx: I have serious doubts as to the authenticity. However - I'm only hoping at worst for the rubber bits - which are not hard to make13:37
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: no offense, but if you think they're doing it wrong and you know how to do it right, then why don't you contribute? :)13:38
MohammadAGnot the upstream argument again, please, we had that yesterday13:38
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: what's the name of the working driver? And where can I get the source for it?13:38
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: I will happily write patches myself, (I'll accredit you for finding the bug of course)13:39
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timeless_xchatalterego : s/accredit/credit/, i think13:41
alteregoYes, we all know I'm rubbish at English.13:42
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* alterego continues making his way through the awful coffee.13:43
* MohammadAG still can't get what people see in coffee13:45
VenemoMohammadAG: I agree, tea is much better13:45
alteregoI like both :P13:48
Venemomy personal favourite is Twinnings' Earl Grey tea13:49
alteregoOh yeah, I love Earl Grey13:49
alteregoSuper tasty13:49
Venemothey have another good one, called "Lady Grey" which is even more delicious13:49
timeless_xchatiirc, twinnings is threatening to leave England13:50
alteregoWell, it's not like we actually grow tea in england ..13:50
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timeless_xchatwell, you had a long tradition of growing tea bags13:51
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* timeless_xchat hops off a bus and heads home (it's snowing in HEL)13:51
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MohammadAGsnowing in HEL, hah13:53
* MohammadAG adds another L13:53
VenemoMohammadAG: there's a Lordi song with that title13:53
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MohammadAGI didn't know there were finnish heavy metal bands...13:56
VenemoMohammadAG: there are many13:57
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JaffaMohammadAG: One even won Eurovision (the aforementioned Lordi)13:57
sig^sorry about that, tab fail.13:57
VenemoMohammadAG: their best song (imo) is "Devil is a looser"13:58
sig^(:  someone who likes to loosen it up or something?13:58
DocScrutinizer51~dict looser13:59
infobotDictionary 'looser' superl. {Loosest}.] [OE. loos, lous, laus, Icel. lauss; akin to OD. loos, D. los, AS. le['a]s false, deceitful, G. los, loose, Dan. & Sw. l["o]s, Goth. laus, and E. lose. [root]127. See {Lose}, and cf. {Leasing} falsehood.] 1. Unbound; untied; unsewed; not attached, fastened, fixed, or confined; as, the loose sheets of a book. [1913 Webster] Her hair, nor loose, nor tied in formal plat. --Shak. [1913 Webster] 2. Free from constraint ...13:59
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51: correct. I accidentally typed one more 'o' than I should have13:59
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51: thx14:02
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Venemowhy is it that the media player displays some embedded album arts and doesn't display some others?14:06
lardmanmmm, blt14:09
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alteregoAlmost lunch time, got a noice pizza for lunch ::)14:13
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MohammadAGalterego, I can haz slice?14:16
alteregoThat'll be 20 pounds14:17
* alterego chuckles.14:17
MohammadAGso the whole pizza's £160?14:18
alteregoNo, I'm just marking up the slice I'm selling to you to make a profit :P14:18
BCMMthey worked out how to send pizza over CTCP now?14:18
alteregoIsn't that what the P stands for?14:19
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alteregoSomeone just came up with a cool idea on tmo14:29
alteregoA paypal app14:30
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alteregoIt'd have to be secure, but basically it'd allow single click donations for applications that want to use this infrastructure.14:30
* alterego ponders14:30
psycho_oreosnot every one likes paypal :)14:30
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alteregopsycho_oreos: so?14:30
alteregopsycho_oreos: not everyone likes the N90014:31
MohammadAGalterego, I'd like that too14:31
MohammadAGalterego, maybe even a library14:31
alteregoIt's attempting to make things a little easier for people to promote support through donations.14:31
MohammadAGsomething that can be implemented in all apps14:31
alteregoMohammadAG: it would be a library and a control panel applet that they could use to configure their account.14:31
alteregoThen your app would use the library to request a donation.14:32
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alteregoWe could even include in the configuration system a registry of apps installed that have donate facilities.14:32
alteregoSo they could do it from there as well as the application about dialog or whatever.14:32
MohammadAGepic idea14:33
MohammadAGhave it at my desk at 8PM14:33
alteregoI'll look into it, the biggest concern is making it secure.14:33
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alteregoI can't think of a way to keep the password information secure.14:34
alteregoWe don't want someone to write a script that can steal peoples paypal information.14:34
alteregoDocScrutinizer51: any ideas?14:35
ShadowJKIf there was a www widget you'd just put the paypal website inside that14:35
MohammadAGuse the API?14:36
MohammadAGif any14:36
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MohammadAGthere is a www widget :P14:36
MohammadAGbut the point is he wants a one-click donation14:36
alteregoThat's not really what I had in mind :P14:36
MohammadAGthat should increase donations by mistake14:37
MohammadAGUser = ???14:37
MohammadAGDev = profit!14:37
alteregowin win!14:37
Venemoalterego: isn't this a bit greedy?14:37
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alteregoVenemo: isn't what a bit greedy? It's still up to the user to donate.14:37
alteregoWe're not forcing them to do anything.14:38
MohammadAGit's just a glorified donate button14:38
MohammadAGwe aren't? Guess I'll have to edit it14:38
jacekowskialterego: encrypt it14:38
alteregoApparently, so some people are saying, it's currently too hard to donate.14:38
alteregoOr they don't know where the donate facility is for an app.14:39
MohammadAGlook on the bright side14:39
MohammadAGyou'll be beating ovi14:39
alteregojacekowski: that's fine, but anyone with the source to this app can decrypt it14:39
MohammadAGpayments there suck14:39
jacekowskialterego: so?14:39
MohammadAGalterego, make the encryption closed source14:39
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jacekowskiMohammadAG: look at me14:39
MohammadAGthen give me the source14:39
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jacekowskialterego: look at kwallet14:39
MohammadAGoh right, block all downloads14:39
MohammadAGin poland14:39
alteregojacekowski: pin code?14:39
jacekowskialterego: it's all in encrypted wallet14:39
alteregoThat's a good idea ..14:39
jacekowskialterego: that's unlocked with one password14:40
jacekowskialterego: and it gives access to only some apps, asking user for permission before14:40
alteregojacekowski: you reckon using a pin code would suffice?14:40
jacekowskiunless it's a long one14:40
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psycho_oreos9^4 possibilities14:40
jacekowskibut 256bit rsa key can be factorised in 6 minutes14:40
MohammadAGwindows bitlocker has a 48-digit key14:40
alteregoGood point ..14:40
psycho_oreoserr 10^414:41
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jacekowski6 minutes14:41
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jacekowskithat's all you need on average hardware14:41
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jacekowski4 digits pin14:42
jacekowskihmm, 5s on n90014:42
jacekowskior less14:42
MohammadAGAES256 is weak?14:42
MohammadAGI thought it takes ages to decrypt14:42
psycho_oreoswhy not GPG? lol14:42
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jacekowskiehh rsa14:43
jacekowskinot aes14:43
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: ekhm you obviously have no idea what is it14:43
psycho_oreosjacekowski, little, its the use of PK14:44
jacekowskiit's just all popular ciphers packaged into one pretty package14:44
psycho_oreosI mean the RSA heh14:45
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infobotpsycho_oreos meant: I meant the RSA heh14:45
jacekowskirsa is weak14:45
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jacekowskiwith smaller keys14:45
jacekowskiand omap has hardware acceleration for aes14:45
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alteregojacekowski: have you ported kwallet then?14:46
psycho_oreosyeah but that's not available in stock kernel no? :)14:46
tybolltwhat's this buzz about a semi-pad running meego?14:46
jacekowskialterego: i'm just giving an example14:46
jacekowskialterego: gnome has alternative14:46
jacekowskibut on maemo i would implement it differently14:46
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jacekowskiideally - using hardware protection builtin into omap14:47
alteregojacekowski: well you're good with this kind of thing, what would you recommend, we need to keep it simple14:47
jacekowskibut that's not going to happen without docs14:47
alteregoI'm not against an encrypted keyring thing like in gnome14:48
jacekowskiit's similiar thing to kwallet14:48
jacekowskijust implemented slightly differently14:48
alteregoEven if it requires a user to enter in a password upon every donation/session.14:48
jacekowskiwell, question is, do we want to protect user against theft of device and then leaked password14:49
jacekowskior what14:49
alteregohow would password be leaked?14:49
jacekowskiwell, if it's stored on device14:49
jacekowskiand somebody steals it14:49
jacekowskiand it's unencrypted14:49
jacekowskithen you have another option of password leaking - malicious app14:50
alteregowell the user is an idiot if they're storing their keyring password on device.14:50
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jacekowskiideally what would it be is daemon running as separate user14:51
tybolltalterego: Sorry no, they user is an idiot, period. ;-)14:51
alteregojacekowski: I was thinking a dbus service14:51
jacekowskiyeah that would do14:51
jacekowskibut dbus can be sniffed14:51
jacekowskiwhich isn't nice14:51
alteregosure, passwords would be hashed from client to server in dbus calls14:52
jacekowskibut on security side of it14:52
jacekowskiclient requests password from server14:52
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jacekowskiserver then verifies if md5 of program requesting password matches stored md514:53
jacekowskior some other has14:53
jacekowskimaybe sha114:53
jacekowskiif it matches and no debugger is attached to it14:54
jacekowskijust passes password14:54
jacekowskiotherwise it would warn user14:54
jacekowskiof course - first time after boot it would have to ask for password14:55
jacekowskiand then possibly password would expire after couple minutes14:55
jacekowskiso user would have to enter it again14:55
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jacekowskibut you would really need check if app hasn't changed14:57
jacekowskiso password is only sent to app that stored it14:57
jacekowskiand then it could be used pretty much system wide for any password14:57
alteregoI was thinking no pass sending: app requests donation, keyring handles validation and submission14:58
alteregoSo the requesting app dbus would be: donate://paypal/?ammount=10usd14:59
alteregothen the service would say, sure you want to donate x to app? enter pass, then the service talks to paypal with auth details and opens reciept in browser context.15:00
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jacekowskiwell, that could be done in another demon15:04
alteregoExactly, it would all be done in our "donation/keyring" daemon15:04
alteregoThe app just requests the donation. The user says yes, enters keyring unlock password after the daemon prompts for authorisation.15:05
jacekowskikeyring daemon could have pluggin support15:05
alteregojacekowski: yes, we'll make it nice and modular :)15:05
jacekowskishame that maemo security is so messed up15:05
alteregoWhat security?15:05
jacekowskiand you have so much shit running as root15:05
* alterego chuckles.15:06
jacekowskiremember to mlock all your memory15:06
jacekowskiso it's not swapped15:06
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alteregoIs there anything good for collaboration for software projects? I'd like us to brain storm this information somewhere other than IRC :)15:07
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* Robot101 is pretty sure some kind of keyring daemon already exists which could be used here... :P15:07
Robot101like, four of them at least15:07
Jaffaalterego: ?15:08
Robot101gnome has one, kde has one, there's a freedesktop project iirc, and meego also has a SSO framework and accounts library which is on gitorious too15:08
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Jaffaalterego: But I'd also suggest following on in maemo-developers on the old thread about putting donate button support into packages (ostensibly for use by, but could also be used by modified HAM/Fapman/appdownloader/...)15:09
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MohammadAGassuming it's in Qt, it can easily be plugged into fapman15:21
SpeedEvilalterego: yeah - someone linked on another chanel.15:21
MohammadAGwe need some XSBC-Donation-URL in debian/control though15:21
SpeedEvilalterego: Can we say sponsored?15:21
JaffaMohammadAG: That's what my proposal was :-p15:21
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trxMohammadAG is ProximityD required for this DBus connection?15:22
OkropNickAre microSD cards with capacity higher than 16GB also supported for N900?15:22
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Jaffaalterego: MohammadAG:
MohammadAGtrx, that's for the screen, not the proximity15:22
alteregoOkropNick: they should work.15:22
SpeedEvilOkropNick: yes, as I understand it.15:23
MohammadAGany SDHC one works15:23
OkropNickthx alterego, SpeedEvil15:23
trxMohammadAG oh, i need the proximity :/15:23
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: But it's SDXC15:23
MohammadAG32GBs is SDHC afaik15:24
MohammadAGtrx, MainWindow.cpp, it doesn't need a class on its own15:24
alteregoWow, that's the worse spamming I've seen on tmo ..15:24
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trxMohammadAG yep, ty15:28
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DocScrutinizermeh, I sugest you study how pgp and kwallet are working. E.G you MUST NOT transmit any PIN pr passphrase over dbus16:19
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.16:19
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DocScrutinizerfor maemo where everybody and his braindead dog can gain root priv, there's simply NO way to implement such a thing in any semi sane way16:20
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alteregoIt's not so much about being root though is it.16:21
DocScrutinizerno matter what you do, it won't take me longer than a day to implement a malware that automatically donates repeatedly to my account16:21
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Indeed; anything on Maemo has to just be a proxy to PayPal (say)'s "donate" page.16:24
DocScrutinizeractually even then you can place a MITM proxy on N900 easily16:25
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DocScrutinizerpaypal has no TAN concept16:27
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alteregoYes, I know you're right, but does that mean we shouldn't do this?16:27
Venemoalterego: please comment on this one:
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DocScrutinizerso it's immanently vulnerable16:27
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MohammadAGalterego, there's no reason you shouldn't do it16:28
DocScrutinizerthere's nothing you can do about paypal, but you'll lose your face in developer guilde if you even support exploiting that paypal vulnerability16:28
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MohammadAGjust have proper checks in place16:29
DocScrutinizeryou don't get it, do you, eventually?16:29
Venemoachipa: ping16:30
achipaVenemo: pong16:30
alteregoVenemo: done16:30
Venemoachipa: since you are an insider, could you please say something about ?16:30
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infobotrumour has it, flashing is
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lcukVenemo, i understand the frustration, but its got to be a difficult thing16:34
Venemolcuk: no, it isn't16:34
Venemolcuk: the SDK release a year ago could do this "difficult thing", until they broke it.16:34
yaccAny idea if there is a dbus-scripts package for Ubuntu/Debian, ...16:34
Venemolcuk: also it doesn't do this for any other targets. eg. it doesn't package my desktop apps when I run them. so. yes, it is very annoying16:35
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achipaVenemo: there is a gap between things happening, so that you get these cases that are obviously non-optimal16:35
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achipanow, if we waited for the various teams to resolve this, sync, etc, that would be the final release16:36
Venemoachipa: that I can understand if this was some new feature request. however this time they simply broke something that worked very well.16:36
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lcukVenemo, qt-creator must also know where to move not just the binary, but all support files too?16:36
lcukie it might work for copying just binary sometimes16:36
Venemothe "deploy" and "run" options are separate in every other IDE.16:37
achipathe thing is the whole build-deploy-publish is getting changed, and publish is a piece of a missing puzzle ATM16:37
VenemoVisual Studio solves this difficult thing by being able to specify the necessary support files.16:37
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Venemoachipa: if you have the necessary privileges on the Qt JIRA, could you please at least reopen the bug I linked?16:38
lcukVenemo, what if one of the support files requires registering rather than just copying?16:38
lcuklike needing to update sudoers or something16:38
Venemolcuk: the config dialog in VS has an option for that too16:38
achipaVenemo: I have no superpowers on Qt bugs, so I can only +1 you16:38
Venemoachipa: can you contact someone who has?16:39
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achipaI'm not sure it would make things better or worse :) in terms that I already have a few bugs on the topic that were declared invalid/out of scope16:39
MohammadAG<lcuk> ie it might work for copying just binary sometimes16:40
MohammadAGthere was an option to copy files over16:40
Venemoachipa: I also don't get why there is a separate Qt Creator version for MeeGo. this is a bloody mess16:40
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achipabut rest assured the topic is not closed and (surprise) a good DX something we actually push for :)16:40
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achipaVenemo: that's mostly timing, as long as there are no devices out there, it would only be dead weight for the integration process16:41
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achipa(i.e. it would only slow down the 'live' symbian/maemo releases)16:41
Venemoachipa: yes, you pushed for good DX for a year now, but it actually didn't get any better. :(16:41
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Venemoachipa: sorry, I know it is not you personally who is responsible for this16:42
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Venemoachipa: so sorry for the bashing16:42
Venemoachipa: but there is noone around with whom we can talk about this16:42
MohammadAGachipa, devices will be out eventually16:42
MohammadAG... or not? :)16:42
VenemoMohammadAG: the N900 is already out, so what?16:42
achipanp, I understand it can get frustrating occasionally (you should hear my assorted anyazas ;) )16:43
MohammadAGMeeGo devices16:43
Venemoachipa: :)16:43
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Venemoachipa: can you point me to the last nightly release which didn't have this feature broken yet?16:43
achipaMohammadAG: yeah, but that's wasn't the point of this release16:43
VenemoMohammadAG: N900 is a MeeGo device if you install MeeGo16:44
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ZogG - jpg is shitty and xfce4 is standart but i like that wallpapper16:44
MohammadAGVenemo, it's not a consumer's MeeGo device16:44
ZogGno full support16:44
VenemoMohammadAG: not yet16:45
achipaVenemo: no idea really, sorry :(16:45
ZogGeven when maemo is official n900 Os it's not supported by Nokia as it should be, you expect them to support meego on it?16:45
Venemowho cares about nokia support?16:45
achipaVenemo: though I do plan on 'silently' releasing my build on gitorious16:45
Venemoachipa: what are the highlights of your build? :)16:45
MohammadAGit's no longer silent :P16:45
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achipawhich has that and a few 'developer confusing' options16:46
VenemoZogG, MohammadAG: I do not expect any more support for MeeGo than what I get on IRC for Fedora. which I can get on #meego16:46
MohammadAGI didn't mention support16:46
achipadeploy wo. dpkg, create deb without device, that sort of stuff16:46
pupnik_understand the planet.....
MohammadAGMeeGo isn't usable unless you have a second device16:47
ZogGVenemo do not compare desctop os and embedded os16:47
Venemoachipa: eagerly awaiting it16:47
VenemoMohammadAG: yet.16:47
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VenemoMohammadAG: not much is missing afaics16:47
achipaalso, 'undeploy' package, insta-flash device16:47
ZogGif meegos Ui would be multitouch based?16:47
MohammadAGVenemo, comparing Maemo 5 to MeeGo, a lot is missing16:48
ZogGin n900 you even need driver for battery16:48
achipa(all stuff that you can do from console, but is annoying)16:48
ZogGas well as any hardware bugs support of closed drivers16:48
VenemoZogG: it'll support both multitouch and single-touch. and yes, BME is there along with other stuff.16:48
MohammadAGon a laptop you need a driver for the battery16:48
MohammadAGthat's what ACPI's for16:48
Venemonah, this is indeed OT here :)16:48
ZogGMohammadAG not really driver but managment16:48
Venemoachipa: do you have an ETA on your version? :P16:49
MohammadAGbme isn't a driver16:49
Venemono it isn't. point is: it's working16:49
MohammadAGit's userspace16:49
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ZogGanyway i think support on embedded device is mucgh different16:51
ZogGas you have to adopt OS for device16:51
DocScrutinizerpoint is, it's not working16:51
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ZogGon other hand on desctop you just config hardware for OS16:51
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DocScrutinizeryou're just happy to not usually notice that16:51
ZogGand hadrware support is not that OS releated but linux releated16:51
* RST38h yawns16:51
* ZogG slaps RST38h 16:52
RST38hAnother terrorist act, an airport, 31+13016:52
VenemoDocScrutinizer: hm, Sts said it's working.16:52
ZogGRST38h second one?16:52
ZogGone side it's bad16:53
achipaVenemo: depends on the release cycle of the 'real' sdk, as I obviously can't publish stuff that is not public yet16:53
DocScrutinizerhe's also just happy to not usually notice that16:53
ZogGon other as it happens all over the world no world would support extreme organizations and countries16:53
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Venemoachipa: I thought it is being developed openly16:53
VenemoDocScrutinizer: mhm :(16:54
RST38hZogG: First one today16:54
achipaVenemo: qtcreator is, but I touch on stuff that is on the danger list (as said, flasher, the rootstrap, etc)16:54
ZogGRST38h i heard about first one 20 people got hurt as far as news sites saying16:55
DocScrutinizerVenemo: mhm!16:55
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DocScrutinizerbme has severe bugs, that just don't blow up into your face immediately and every day16:55
RST38hZogG: It is up to 31+130 now16:56
RST38hZogG: + many hundreds more from rectal probing at the airport entrance in the upcoming months.16:57
GAN900This is how we let them win.16:57
Venemoachipa: I would suffice with the fix for this bug.16:57
GAN900It's not about the bombings, it's about the economic damage we do to ourselves afterwards.16:57
DocScrutinizerand honestly when stskeeps says "it works" then, well... He doesn't even have the *parameters* to evaluate and verify bme against16:58
ZogGVenemo i had bug that when i connect device to wall charger and it's empty it stops charging after 3 sec just notifing "charging is stopped"16:58
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* MohammadAG points to Stskeeps's uboot-pr13, the source of which contains binaries16:58
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* MohammadAG points to his uboot-power, a proper package with proper sources16:59
ZogGGAN900 no, it's about politics and extremests16:59
DocScrutinizerso all anybody can say is "it seems to do roughly what I expected, in usual non-niche conditions"16:59
fralshey MohammadAG16:59
fralsyou live in israel right?16:59
fralsor was that someone else16:59
ZogGGAN900 if someone doesn't use any rules - the proper way is do the same!16:59
MohammadAGthere's ZogG too16:59
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ZogGi'm Tel-Aviv17:00
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MohammadAGthough I'm leaving on the 27th to Jordan, holidays17:00
ZogGfrals, you comming here?17:00
MohammadAGZogG, lucky17:00
GAN900ZogG, it's economic warfare at its core.17:00
fralsmight be17:00
RST38hGAN900: Go tell that to the head of DHS :)17:00
MohammadAGsend me an MMS if you do17:00
ZogGfrals for how long. my appartment is cold and shitty but i can provide place to stay for a wekk i think with no problem17:01
RST38hGAN900: Especially considering that his career depends on "implementing effective measures against terorrist threats to our homeland" :)17:01
GAN900RST38h, exactly the problem.17:01
lcukRFC 9876: trout_over_mms17:01
fralsZogG: thanks but i dunno where im going yet :D17:01
GAN900Everytime we add new security measures and cavity search another foreigner, the terrorists win.17:01
ZogGGAN900 you are right, when you talk about people behind it, that don't really care about fanatic stuff17:01
RST38hlcuk: It will rot at the MMSC, AFAIK =)17:01
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MohammadAGfrals, keep in mind, it's warmer than Finland :p17:01
MohammadAGfrals, what's the timeframe?17:02
ZogGfrals i'm in tel-aviv(near actually) as well i may get discount in hotel as my friend work there17:02
fralschecking the list of vaccins that i should get before going :p17:02
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fralsMohammadAG: soon(tm) ;)17:02
ZogGfrals anyway you can count on me if you need help and beer talk if you want =)17:03
ZogGMohammadAG is useless he doesn't drink =)17:03
fralsill let you guys know when i know more17:03
VenemoMohammadAG: you don't drink?17:03
MohammadAGmay I ask about the purpose of the visit? :P17:03
fralshes not allowed!17:03
MohammadAGI mean, Finland > Israel17:03
MohammadAGAt least you guys have snow17:04
MohammadAGVenemo, not officially - oops17:04
fralsits not for pleasure thats for sure :D17:04
VenemoMohammadAG: yes, and you have sunshine which I would pick over snow :P17:04
fralsno offense towards israel but i like where i am ;)17:04
MohammadAGI'd pick snow over this weather anytime17:04
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MohammadAGfrals, no offense taken, it sucks anyway17:04
VenemoMohammadAG: what's the weather?17:04
MohammadAGVenemo, I haven't seen rain in quite a while17:05
MohammadAGit's 15 or something outside17:05
lcukcome to manchester17:05
ZogGit's cold in morning and hot at day =(17:05
* lcuk emails you a bucket load of rain17:05
MohammadAGI was in germany in 09 (or was it 08...)17:05
ZogGlcuk, i like your accent17:05
Venemowell that's still better than the -1°C here17:05
MohammadAGit lacked some wifi17:05
MohammadAGbut it was awesome17:05
merlin1991MohammadAG, germany sucks17:05
MohammadAG-1C is awesome17:05
DocScrutinizerdonkey balls17:06
merlin1991if you wan't to go to a german speaking country austria is the way to go ;)17:06
MohammadAGmerlin1991, see? as much as it sucks it beats israel17:06
* RST38h doesn't drink either, it is the path of the weak ones =)17:06
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merlin1991RST38h, it's also friday nights path17:06
* GAN900 seems to only drink at Maemo events.17:06
ZogGRST38h you think you are better than me? =)17:06
RST38hZogG: Of course! =)17:06
GAN900MohammadAG, at least it's not depressing.17:07
* ZogG drinks everytime there si beer17:07
ZogGRST38h =(17:07
RST38hAny place gets depressing after a while, I guess17:07
MohammadAGtake tmo as an example...17:07
RST38hThat is why we have got terrorist acts! To liven things up!17:07
* MohammadAG hides17:07
MohammadAGGAN900, ha, true that17:07
DocScrutinizerRST38h: wait wait! where you're from? and you tel me you dont drink?17:07
MohammadAGhe's russian17:08
RST38hDoc: That is part of the reason why I do not.17:08
MohammadAGand he doesn't believe in Vodka17:08
VenemoMohammadAG: hehe17:08
DocScrutinizerI thought you get arrested in Russia if you refuse to drink :-P17:08
MohammadAGIn soviet russia, drinks refuse you17:08
RST38hDoc: Ironically, there is very few things for which you get arrested in Russia17:08
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ZogGOpenfree has quit (Remote host closed the connection) // no fuiture for opensource17:10
DocScrutinizerI guess the fact that DHL doesn't deliver to private addr is somewhat related :-P17:10
ZogGthey are cutting us out17:10
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MohammadAGZogG, the day open source dies is the day freenode gives you a Connection Refused17:12
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ooh, now I get it. Of course the only thing you get arrested for in Russia is to have too little or way to much money17:12
DocScrutinizertoo much*17:12
RST38hDoc: close but not exactly17:12
DocScrutinizerway too much has to come hand in hand with badmouthing Putin to get dangerous17:13
RST38hDoc: You generally get arrested for NOT SHARING the wealth you have got with intertested parties :)17:13
ZogGgonna take a snap17:13
RST38hAnd yes, badmouthing the government in certian public spaces has never been healthy17:13
jacekowskiRST38h: so you are saying that if i don't share wealth ( like games, music and other copyrighted content ) i will go to prison?17:13
RST38hjacekowski: that is not wealth, that is rubbish17:14
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: in Russia even 1kg of caviar is considered rubish17:16
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: real wealth in Russia is starting at 10^917:16
DocScrutinizerI bet there's a saying in Russia upper class that goes like "if you can survive the money you own getting thrown on you, then you're a poor man"17:18
cos^umm.. how do i reset my password on
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cos^it would be too easy if they had a reset link on the login page17:19
DocScrutinizerthey don't?17:19
DocScrutinizerwhich m.o? tmo, gmo, bmo?17:20
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cos^if you write wrong u/p in top right corner fields, it just directs to login page with no reset link17:23
DocScrutinizer  -> "forgot your password"17:23
ShadowJKroflmao, Nokia Care people are awesome. I asked how to return the device for repair through the seller, when the seller is Nokia (they have like no details on their website for that). The reply was essentially "Yes you can" (my summary) :P17:24
ShadowJKgee, I was hoping for an envelope or something17:24
MohammadAGalterego, how do I detect that one has switched window17:24
MohammadAGi.e I moved to a stacked window17:25
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yeah, nice17:25
cos^DocScrutinizer: thanks.. that worked17:25
ShadowJKNot that it matters, since I already /paid/ a local Nokia retailer to ship my device to Nokia17:26
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you should have ultimatively asked Nokia for a RMA :-D17:27
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ShadowJKIt's funny, when that retailer was a Nokia Care point / service center (they had L1/L2 afaik), I got no receipt or anything17:28
DocScrutinizermanufs can't answer "yes you can" to a RMA request17:29
RST38hShadowJK: It is no longer funny, nor is it unusual =(17:29
ShadowJKthis time when they're no longer a care point they actually behaved alot more professionally and gave me a receipt17:29
RST38hShadowJK: Got Nokia 5228 before NY. Worked for 2 days, then powered down and never came back up.17:29
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RST38hShadowJK: Fixing it has been fun too, with the Nokia Care authorized dealer not being able to find the order by name (they kept entering First+Last names, refused to search by partila name)17:30
ShadowJKI see alot of people with that 5228 thing, or things that look just like it17:31
RST38hOn the other hand, if you need a chip source of N900 styluses or 5800 wristbands, they have got those =)17:31
RST38hShadowJK: Coworker's GalaxyS has done a similar thing right out of the box though: it powered up but refused to find the network. So, Nokia is not alone17:32
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DocScrutinizerwell, obviously situation in China is getting worse, regarding QA17:33
ShadowJKLike BBC's tech journalist says in his podcasts, "It's not what gadgets do when they work that sets one manufacturer apart from another, it's what happens when they break"17:33
ShadowJKHe was actually referring to how replacing his android device was something like 3 taps to restore his data, which had been automatically backed up in the cloud up until the point first device broke, but whatever :P17:34
RST38hDoc: Or they have cut costs a little bit too much17:34
GAN900ShadowJK, handing your life over to google is fun.17:34
ShadowJKyeah that too :)17:34
RST38hBTW, 5800's display has not survived a winter. The repairman said this happens a lot17:35
DocScrutinizerbtw, who was it who claimed N900 didn't go down in price? I yesterday found new N900 at Amazon for roughly 1/2 of what I paid17:35
ShadowJKIt's going down on Nokia store now too17:35
GAN900It's nearly discontinued.17:35
DocScrutinizeryeah *SOB*17:36
ShadowJKI'm kinda sad I missed Booklet 3g's end of sale. Apparently it was half price for a few days :-(17:36
GAN900Oh yeah?17:36
* nze` is wondering what meego actually gets developed for..17:36
GAN900Kinda a nice piece of hardware.17:37
GAN900nze`, nothing.17:37
GAN900It's all a smokescreen for Nokia's furious efforts to port Android to, and relaunch, the N97.17:37
chxWait, who has n900 styluses?17:37
nze`GAN900: like, Because They Can :)17:37
DocScrutinizerI thought it's called remove680?17:37
ShadowJKGAN900, it's memory starved17:38
DocScrutinizerchx: "a lot" of shops17:38
ShadowJKfor 700 you'd want more than 1gig of ram... :/17:38
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chxa lot better than the N810, i see17:38
chxgetting a stylus for taht was a major PITA17:38
GAN900ShadowJK, not user-upgradable?17:38
ShadowJKNo, you need soldering iron17:38
GAN900Ah, too bad.17:39
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* alterego does a few bug fixes17:41
alteregofinally got rid of that annoying bug where the fullscreen button is positioned in the wrong place at startup.17:45
* lardman is curious about the Nokia DAB headphones with a USB plug17:46
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pupnik_"if you don't know how to do what you want to do, then you don't know what you want to do"17:49
crashanddielol, rapidshare claims that SSL uses so much more CPU power, that they have to bill you 2x the bandwidth usage for a given file.17:50
chxdidnt a Google engineer blogged that SSL no more eats CPU , these days?17:51
crashanddiehe did17:51
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crashanddieWe're currently switching from SIP to SIPS on the server, all HTTP to HTTPS, and PKI encryption for our in-house protocol, and we're seeing a .4% increase of CPU load due to SIPS, 1.2% increase due to HTTPS, and 4% increase due to PKI-signing our own protocol.17:52
ShadowJKI suspect this is just a sign that everything else has grown less efficient ;D17:54
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crashanddieor simply that CPUs have reached cruising speeds that make SSL trivial?17:56
ShadowJKhm, you have a point there sort of. SSL all fits in cache, but massively dynamic websites don't.17:57
ShadowJKThey probably don't fit in ram these days17:57
crashanddieSSL fits in cache? What do you mean by that?17:58
SpeedEvilThe SSL algorithm17:59
marmoutewidth CPU word, SIMD, and higher level micro instruction help too17:59
DocScrutinizero.O 4% for SIPS ? WTF!17:59
ShadowJKI mean that php/java/ruby/whatever + mysqldb is much bigger than a CPU's cache, so to actually generate the webpage takes huge amounts of time, whereas passing the tiny result through SSL fits inside CPU cache?17:59
DocScrutinizerwhat are you doing over SIPS? share files?18:00
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marmouteDocScrutinizer: 0.4%18:02
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DocScrutinizerI'd guess that the average SIP VoIP call has 0.1% SIP(S) and 99.9% RTP18:02
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DocScrutinizer~trout crashanddie18:03
* infobot slaps crashanddie around a bit with a large trout!18:03
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer, definitely18:04
crashanddieDocScrutinizer, though, we have servers that handle pure SIP, and lay off the RTP/conferencing to other servers18:04
DocScrutinizerfair enough18:04
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MohammadAGI never asked18:05
crashanddieand those servers handle amounts such as 8-20k connections simultaneously, to give an idea of the accuracy of the .4%18:05
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DocScrutinizerwasn't thinking server, sorry18:05
MohammadAGis the SIP company you work for for consumers?18:05
crashanddieMohammadAG, no, businesses only18:05
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crashanddiewell, we'd do a consumer if you need 2000 people calling you on the same phone line :P18:06
MohammadAGyou do consumers?18:06
alteregoGod, my gf is gonna be mad, lost an ebay bid.18:06
* MohammadAG giggles18:06
DocScrutinizerheh, so you at very least could get me my lifetime free vanity number ;-D18:07
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* crashanddie cackles as he sees the overclocking fatality :D18:08
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crashanddieI'm just a dev, I don't control actual production config18:09
DocScrutinizerthe 'sad' thing is Nokia will repair it18:09
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: so maybe we will see instructions of OC gurus eventually how to kill the device 2 weeks prior to warranty expire date, to get a fresh one :-o18:12
DocScrutinizermaybe even a MyNewN900 app18:13
DocScrutinizerfsckng OC idiots18:14
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DocScrutinizerwell, better they kill their OC'd devices with MyNewN900 than to sell them to me. I feel no sorry for Nokia, as they never bothered to shout "NO OC!!" in 280pt18:16
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ShadowJKdidn't one of them do that at a maemo summit?18:16
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alteregoThere were a few Nokia guys saying OC'ing is bad.18:17
ShadowJKDunno how big 72pt becomes once you use a projector to put it on a whiteboard :P18:17
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DocScrutinizerhe not shouted, he gave an advice for devels18:17
alteregoYeah, suppose you're right.18:17
alteregoThere should just be a death switch inside the N900 that kills the device if OC'd.18:17
lardmanYes, Igor quite clearly said to not leave the device at its top clock speed18:17
alteregoUsers would pay attention to that.18:17
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DocScrutinizeralterego: When I was consulting Nokia on that project, I always recommended they not only silently collect serial # of OC'd devices via HAM and repo-server plugin, but also make HAM pop up that 72pt "YOU OC'd, WARRANTY VOID" notifier. No idea why they scratched that18:20
alteregoToo much effort obviously ..18:21
alteregoWould they have paid the dev that implemented it more than the (currently 1 "confirmed") device that is being replaced.18:22
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DocScrutinizernah, the OC detection is implemented in HAM - guess why it's so incredibly lame18:22
alteregoWell, there's fapman too.18:22
alteregoIt's not hard to get around a ham18:22
infobotalterego meant: It's not hrd to get around a ham18:23
* DocScrutinizer cackles18:23
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DocScrutinizerInever get around a ham, as soon as there's any in vicinity ;-)18:24
* alterego considers waypoint ETA calculation18:24
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DocScrutinizerto next ham?18:24
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lardmanI hope you're using the great circle path around the first ham18:25
lardmanassuming it's a big one18:25
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* alterego tries to remember how to calculate the point of intersection between two lines18:28
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alteregoI do like geometry.18:29
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DocScrutinizeralterego: you're not serious, are you?18:29
alteregoAbout what?18:29
alteregoLiking geometry or trying to remember something?18:29
jacekowskialterego: simple18:31
DocScrutinizerabout how to calculate x,y for (x0a,y0a)+(xa,xa*gradient-a)=(x0b,y0b)+(xb,xb*gradient-b)18:31
alteregoNot even sure it's the best way to do what I'm doing.18:31
jacekowskialterego: y=x; y=x/218:32
jacekowskifor example18:32
alteregoI've got my viewport (trackview, map, whatever) and I want an edge indicator when the destination waypoint is outside of that viewport.18:32
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jacekowskii don't remember that as well18:32
alteregoSo I need the point where the hyp. crosses the top line.18:33
alteregoWell, the vector toward the destination waypoint.18:34
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lardmanhow many dimensions is this?18:34
lardman2 only?18:34
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: your values missing origin of second line18:34
alteregolardman: yes, just 2D18:34
lardmanso yeah intersection is where the two are equal18:35
lardmanbut how are your lines represented18:35
alteregothere are no lines :P18:35
alteregoThey're hypothetical lines.18:35
alteregoI have the coordinate of the target waypoint.18:35
alteregoI have my origin which is the center of the viewport.18:36
lardmanmy interest is more for 3D viewport wanting to know whether to render icons if they would be visible18:36
alteregoAnd I know the viewports dimensions.18:36
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lardmancan't you just subtract the x and y parts of the two coordinates from one another and see if they are > 1/2 the width/height of the viewport?18:37
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lardmanwhy not?18:38
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alteregoI need the position to plot my marker at the edge of the viewport.18:38
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lardmanoh I see18:38
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alteregotbh, I also need to detect if the waypoint is outside of the viewport.18:39
alteregoI think I might change things slightly so I'm working with a square viewport.18:39
alteregowtf am I talking about, that's not going to work either.18:40
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alteregoRight, figured it out :)18:43
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lardmangenerate equations of line between two points, substitute in the values for the lines at the perimeter, see whether the resultant is larger than the view window?18:47
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alteregoNo, that's not very efficient :P18:49
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lardmanwell it's not too bad, as the edges only need a single value for each18:50
lardmanthough you should check that the distance in x and y directions is > edge distance before doing the intersection check18:50
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pillarwhat's the status on SSU repo? is it up yet?18:52
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trumeecrashanddie: ping19:06
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trumeecrashanddie: did you ever use N900 with Freeswitch?19:06
crashanddiethe one you provided me with?19:06
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trumeecrashanddie: dont remember whether you actually tested against my server or not :)19:07
trumeecrashanddie: but had something to show you19:07
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povbotBug 10388: Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem?19:08
trumeecrashanddie: listen to the wav file in the comment. N900 skips all the digit prompts of Freeswitch19:09
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trumeecrashanddie: it is a call to the Voicemail in Freeswitch19:10
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crashanddiethat seems to be a bug in the RTP handling19:11
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crashanddiewe had the same bug in our SIP server19:12
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crashanddiewell, I know of a few bug instances where this can happen19:12
trumeecrashanddie: you think it is a fault in FS and not an issue with N900?19:12
crashanddieA/ server is sending RTP packets with poorly incremented identifiers19:12
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trumeecrashanddie: empathy/twinkle/ekiga handle the voicemail fine.19:13
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crashanddieB/ server is sending RTP packets too quickly after first wav stopped, the N900 receives the RTP too quickly, and drops it19:13
crashanddienormally, the client should be able to handle this scenario, as the RTP sequencing is quite clear, but it requires a bit of buffering algorithms19:13
trumeecrashanddie: so is there any workaround in the server side or client side?19:14
Juozapaswhere n900 writes dns servers ?19:14
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crashanddiewell, it's hard to analyse unless you have proper logging about what's happening19:15
crashanddiewe should try to know whether the N900 is dropping packets or not19:15
trumeecrashanddie: i see. so a tcpdump on N900 is required?19:16
crashanddieTCPdump won't help19:16
crashanddiewe need to see the internal handling19:16
trumeecrashanddie: internal handling of the N900 gstreamer client?19:17
crashanddiefor example, yeah19:17
trumeecrashanddie: is that something you could look into?19:18
crashanddiebasically, add debug information to know if it drops packets, or why it doesn't play them19:18
crashanddiewhether it's sequential issues, or timing issues19:18
crashanddiethough, it's weird that it's only on those digits19:18
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crashanddiecan you check if there is any codec switching during the communication/19:18
trumeecrashanddie: i dropped the move from asterisk to freeswitch due to this issue19:19
crashanddieIt could be that freeswitch is switching to other encodings for those digits, encodings the N900 can't handle19:19
trumeecrashanddie: there was nothing obvious in the freeswitch log.19:19
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crashanddieand the source .wav files?19:19
crashanddieor .gsm, or whatever you have19:20
crashanddieare they all the same?19:20
trumeecrashanddie: hmm. let me check that.19:20
crashanddieespecially between "Press" and "digit"19:20
trumeecrashanddie: 0.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 16000 Hz19:21
trumeecrashanddie: vm-press.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 16000 Hz19:21
trumeecrashanddie: they look the same19:22
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trumeecrashanddie: what pbx server are you running at your end?19:22
crashanddieour own19:22
crashanddieyou could use VoipMonitor or PJSIP to try and see what's what19:22
crashanddieVoipMonitor needs to run on the same host as the freeswitch server, PJSIP can be run as any client19:23
trumeecrashanddie: i do have a pjsipclient running remotely as well.19:23
crashanddieyou don't notice any weird SIP signals flying through?19:23
trumeecrashanddie: i use it to test my N900. it basically reads out an ebook19:23
trumeecrashanddie: What state of N900 PSM do you use with pbx?19:24
crashanddieI don't use my N900 for SIP19:24
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OkropNickanyone knows how to make use of notification led for missed calendar events?19:24
trumeecrashanddie: crap.19:25
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crashanddietrumee, but in my own tests, PSM didn't change much to the poor quality of SIP calls19:26
trumeecrashanddie: right. so you have experienced poor SIP calls on N900?19:26
crashanddieoh yeah, definitely19:26
crashanddieit's one of the reasons I'm using a crappy softphone through wine on my laptop rather than the n90019:27
trumeecrashanddie: ah. i hope Collabora guys are listening to this.19:27
* crashanddie pokes lcuk ^19:27
nidOlolz, cnn website has a survey on it's homepage asking which android tablet offers more "possibilities on the go"19:28
nidOthen lists dell, lg, samsung, apple, and blackberry19:28
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crashanddienidO, I'd be willing to bet that people who go to think "android" means smartphone.19:29
trumeecrashanddie: Olivier Crete (ocrete) didnt succeed in resolving this.19:29
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trumeecrashanddie: seems, N900 wasnt tested very well with sip.19:30
nidOcrashanddie: sadly, seeing apple with 22% of the votes and blackberry with 11%, i'd be inclined to agree19:30
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nidOespecially as 30% also chose "dont know"19:30
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: did you get your dlink router?19:33
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RST38hWell. Moo.19:34
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lcukcrashanddie, trumee - so whats new on the testing front?  have you guys come up with verifiable test cases to show any issue?19:38
crashanddieplace a call, lol :D19:39
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trumeelcuk: ocrete has taken tcpdumps from my system19:39
trumeelcuk: and i uploaded some files on bug 10388 too19:39
povbotBug Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem?19:39
RST38hthis bug has been there for a while19:40
RST38hmay have something to do with the clock skew,although I amnot an expert19:40
trumeelcuk: but what is Collabora doing about that bug, i dont know. Nobody has bothered to let us know19:41
trumeeRST38h: yes, that bug has been sitting there for a while.19:41
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trumeelcuk, crashanddie, RST38h: people have been randomly trying all permutations of OCing, modifying pulse and what not at
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crashanddieHow often can packets be read/sent with PSM?19:44
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trumeecrashanddie: PSM is supposed to turn off when sip call starts?19:45
crashanddieif it's any less than 50Hz, then you're going to have bad quality through SIP calls19:45
povbotBug 10050: high latency with SIP client19:47
lcuktrumee, what is your talk. username?19:47
trumeelcuk: rajil.s19:48
lcukok, so on the 15th of this month you posted about having some new files19:48
lcukdid you report back to Olivier about them?19:48
lcukor on the bug yourself?19:48
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lcukie, perhaps the onus is now on you since he offered up some components to try19:49
trumeelcuk: i had those files since last october19:49
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trumeelcuk: and i have been regularly hanging out in #farsight19:49
trumeelcuk: last discussion i had with ocrete was two weeks ago19:50
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lcukaccording to the bug, last comment was december19:51
trumeelcuk: yes, i posted that last comment19:51
trumeelcuk: but nobody from Nokia (Mikhail) or Collabora has updated that bug report19:51
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trumeelcuk:  i dont know who could help now.19:52
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trumeelcuk: The usual answer i get from ocrete (although he has been quite helpful) is that it works in 'empathy' so should work in N90019:53
trumeelcuk: he has carried out testing against my own server with N900 and the results have been quite bad19:54
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trumeelcuk: is there anything you could do to help?19:56
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nze`i've just booted my n900 into meego 1.1 on my microsd card. how can i access the maemo rootfs?20:00
crashanddienze`, #meego20:01
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nze`what's the device the rootfs resides on called in maemo?20:03
lcuktrumee, I don't see specifically what I can do, I am not on the SIP team.  I do recall from previous conversations that some people happily reported things working well and people on different servers had different experiences20:06
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trumeelcuk: perhaps you can nudge the people in the SIP team. Is there anybody other than ocrete who will be responsible to rectify this bug?20:08
lcukbug reports are the best place to contact related maintainers.20:09
lcuksince your conversation seems to be out of band20:09
lcukits not quite the easiest thing to do20:09
trumeelcuk: "since your conversation seems to be out of band" ?20:10
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lcuktrumee, you said you contacted him a couple of weeks ago - but I see nothing on the bug about it20:10
lcukwhat was said, what was tried etc20:10
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lcukor was that middle of december20:11
trumeelcuk: yes20:12
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trumeelcuk: do you think it will be a good idea to post those binaries on the bugzilla?20:14
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lcuktrumee, I don't know what they are for, so no.20:15
lcuki have to go anyway, raise it on the bug report where all the related parties see it.20:15
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trumeelcuk: raise what?20:16
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trumeecrashanddie: dead end!20:21
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* MohammadAG looks for a lyrics C++ API20:23
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MikaTMohammadAG: I tried to find a lyrics library once too, and found nothing for C at the time. I needed something for N810.20:33
MikaTMohammadAG: So I made this: but it does not work anymore and not maintained, unfortunately.20:34
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MikaTI was planning things for N900, but TuneWiki applet was good enough for me, so liblyrics was kind of left behind.20:35
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GAN900Eldar thread on Talk is gold.20:38
alteregoHave you weighed in yet?20:40
alteregoI'm staying well away from that one :D20:40
GAN900alterego, not worth it20:40
GAN900I will when a thread is mostly rational20:41
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alteregoOn tmo? :)20:41
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GAN900But when it's filled with insanity, well.20:41
MohammadAG= NEVAR20:41
MohammadAGdamn, forgot the !!!11!20:41
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SiceloPauly: hi21:17
Paulynokia sans font is awesome looking21:18
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SiceloPauly: I agree :)21:19
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Paulyi deleted most of other fonts in the /usr/share/fonts dir and now all the text in micro b is nokia sans!21:21
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SiceloPauly: what happens if you open pages with accented characters and other special unicode characters?21:27
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MohammadAGshit happens21:29
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Paulyits okay this looks to pretty21:30
Paulyany test page21:30
mecepost screenshot21:31
Paulywhat page should i take screenshot of?21:33
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SiceloPauly: I think mece meant screenshot of any page you have. As for me, atm I can't think of any page for you to test21:38
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keriothe fuck is that21:39
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Siceloit is truly nice Pauly :)21:40
kerioare you really using a web client for irc on your n900? D:21:40
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RST38h"...At his peak in 1990, the toad controlled more than $10bn in financial instruments, making its owner the worlds largest individual stock investor..."21:41
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meceRST38h, good to know...21:41
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MohammadAGdid anyone ever find a way to unchoke the device when a call comes in?21:44
TheJi OC:d.. helped me.21:45
TheJatleast the choke is less than before21:46
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: all glory to the hypnotoad21:56
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RST38hDoc: yes, it was surely getting around in the booming Japan22:00
pupniki have a good good toad app22:00
pupnikalmost working22:00
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RST38hpupnik: will trade for 3 brain slugs, slightly used.22:01
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pupnikunfortunately bad loop in the sample playback22:03
pupnikthat's really a sound that calls for a soft-synth22:03
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pupnikhola florian ... did you work on fbmenu?22:03
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florianhi pupnik22:05
florianpupnik: no22:05
pupnikah ok22:05
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MohammadAGhmm, out of popcorn22:07
* MohammadAG gets doritos and reads N9/Eldar thread22:07
pupnika slightly improved N900 would be just fine, really22:08
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piggzMohammadAG: mmmmm, doritos, preferably with metled cheese and guacamole22:10
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MohammadAGoh nice, another thread22:15
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MohammadAGwhy don't they take it all to meego.com22:16
MohammadAGit's the right place for such things22:16
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pupniki should send the homestar runner guys a real 486 laptop22:19
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Pauly_hey why is there so many people in this channel22:22
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Pauly_but not many is chatting22:23
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eichihello! are there problems, trying some themes? i dont wont to break desktop only for trying some themes. otherwise i will use the default one22:23
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MohammadAGchem|st, any chance we can get this closed ?22:28
MohammadAGor merged with the other BS22:28
pupnikeichi: do a websearhc for the theme on to see if it causes problems22:29
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eichipupnik: the D-theme themes looks stable on first look22:30
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Pauly_mohammadag: microb isnt as fast as it should be i think it cause of my router any tips for getting fast connection22:52
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ToJa92-ubuntudoes anyone know if mobile hotspot starts a DHCP server?22:55
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benno2Hi, any idea whether this func works correctly:  osso_hw_set_event_cb(m_ossocontext, &hw_state, onHwEvent, &myvar);    basically I would like to read: hw_state->system_inactivity_ind  to see if the app got suspended (or display went off) but it gets called only at app startup ( with the field set to 0), after that even after the display goes off, the function does not get called. any idea ? N900 PR1.322:57
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ToJa92-ubuntunvm, apparently it has one23:05
MrBawbToJa92-ubuntu: it uses dnsmasq's built-in dhcp server23:08
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ToJa92-ubuntuok. is there any way to view incoming requests to it? (or wlan in general)23:11
MrBawbToJa92-ubuntu: there's always tcpdump23:12
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MrBawbyou could also start dnsmasq by hand and use  --no-daemon --log-dhcp + the other options23:13
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pupnikhas anyone in the FOSS community done anything for samsung's bada?23:15
pupnikor with..23:15
ToJa92-ubuntuMrBawb: thanks23:16
RST38h"It is estimated that the Mongol leader's invasions unintentionally scrubbed almost 700 million tons of carbon from the atmosphere."23:17
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RST38hpupnik: See? It is good for the environment!23:17
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derfExterminating humans usually is.23:19
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pupniknow if someone could prove that CO2 were bad for the environment...  but that's another topic23:19
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GAN900Scale, scale, scale23:24
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pupnik"The [Tandy] Model Is radiated so much RFI that many games were designed so that an AM radio next to the computer could be used to provide sounds"  baaahahahah23:28
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RST38hpupnik: pretty usual for that time23:32
pupniknice tandy model 4 on ebay right now23:33
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lcukwhat machine did Linus use to build/test linux on initially?23:34
lcukand does it still happily work on it?23:34
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kerioi doubt it23:35
kerioprobably linux 2.6 is bigger than that computer's HD23:35
keriolet alone the ram23:35
OkropNickdoes someone know application that allows to put all applications shortcuts to some kind of categories in N900?23:35
kasansweatcatorise, but I've never used it23:35
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MrBawblcuk: elks might work on it23:36
lcukon what?23:36
MrBawblcuk: Linus's first machine23:37
lcukyes, what was it?23:37
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kasansweatHas anyone gotten AnyRemote or Irreco, etc. working for a simple WLAN remote, eg for a media box? (I.e., some big arrow key and enter and maybe volume buttons controlling a pc that one has SSHed or VNCed or even telnetted to?)23:37
MrBawblcuk: had to be somewhere in the 286 range, I don't actually know23:37
MrBawboh, 38623:38
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OkropNickkasansweat: thank you for hint23:39
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MrBawbkasansweat: you're looking to use Irreco with wlan?23:41
kasansweatSure, or whichever one works? I saw that qtirreco was IR only? Not sure about Irreco or other alternatives23:41
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MrBawbkasansweat: There's bluemaemo, that pretends to be a bluetooth keyboard23:42
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MrBawbI don't know of anything that uses VNC or synergy and presents a remote-control interface23:43
kasansweatso bluemaemo does do "buttons on the screen?"23:43
MrBawbit has some pre-made profiles23:43
kasansweatbut it must be bluetooth?23:44
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kasansweatseems silly to limit it to just that, but hey, beggars can't be choosers (unless they're coders)23:44
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MrBawbyeah, it should be possible to do what you want.  It's just, nobody's written it that I know of23:45
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chem|stMohammadAG: what is the second thread23:45
lcukkasansweat, bluemaemo is bluetooth HID wrapper23:45
lcukmaking it not do bluetooth is kinda feature creep :P23:45
kasansweathehe yeah -- I thought AnyRemote might have been it too -- but I think it takes some fudging23:45
MohammadAGchem|st, nevermind, it already grew to a big thread23:46
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chem|stah ok23:46
kasansweatMaking it do WLAN seems painfully obvious -- the N900 is WLAN enabled, and the other PC is likely to be as well23:46
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alteregobluetooth hid is a good standard to work on, there's no tcp/ip hid spec afaik :)23:51
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MrBawbalterego: there's always
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alteregoWell, at least hid is built into most things by default :P23:53
alteregoIt's a pity the xbox doesn't have bluetooth23:53
alteregostupid rf crap23:53
alteregoOr ir ..23:53
alteregoBut it means I can't use the N900 as a bluetooth hid keyboard for the xbox, like their messenger pad thing23:54
alteregoWhich is something I'd really like23:54
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MohammadAGalterego, it's a pity the PS3 doesn't have IR :p23:57
alteregoThe PS3 has good bluetooth hid support though23:58
MohammadAGoh yay, some arabic news channel started a wikileaks of its own23:58
alteregoIf I had a PS3 I'd write a ps3-media-remote and keyboard app23:58
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* MohammadAG sends alterego his PS323:59
MohammadAGI trust it'll be back23:59
alteregoYou might get a controller back :P23:59
MohammadAGhey javispedro23:59

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