IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-12-23

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gazu	any idea how longer takes the device to reboot after being full flashed??	00:02
SpeedEvil	a bit longer than normal	00:03
SpeedEvil	a minute or two/	00:03
gazu	I'm waiting after 20 minutes	00:04
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Venemo	gazu: that's too much	00:05
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gazu	that what i thought	00:06
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gazu	I'm running this commands	00:08
gazu	sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f	00:08
gazu	and then	00:08
gazu	sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f	00:08
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Venemo	gazu: that's correct	00:12
Venemo	gazu: after it's complete, use the power button to turn it on	00:12
gazu	any idea why is taking so long	00:12
DocScrutinizer	well, marble works - kinda. does routes, does even navigation guidance	00:12
gazu	I did	00:12
Pradeep	gazu, i think it is on the wiki	00:12
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Pradeep	gazu, check	00:13
Pradeep	flash mine yesterday with the global .bin file	00:13
DocScrutinizer	gazu: your seconf flash process for COMBINED worked and returned some proper message saying it succeeded?	00:15
gazu	yes	00:15
gazu	but after going throw the welcome message takes forever	00:16
DocScrutinizer	welcome as in "select date, time, language"?	00:16
gazu	yes	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	then it actually boted properly	00:17
DocScrutinizer	dunno what's going on	00:17
Pradeep	ok	00:17
gazu	I'm steel waiting after more than 30 minutes	00:17
DocScrutinizer	screen lit?	00:17
DocScrutinizer	or black?	00:18
gazu	black with the dots loading in the middle	00:18
lcuk	gazu, first boot after flashing	00:18
DocScrutinizer	hmm, so it's not suspended	00:18
Pradeep	hmmmm	00:18
lcuk	does infact take longer	00:18
DocScrutinizer	not 30 min	00:18
lcuk	but are you sure about the 5minute thing?	00:18
lcuk	yeah	00:18
lcuk	gazu, what caused you to flash in the first place?	00:19
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gazu	was playing with some deb files and some programs stop working	00:20
gazu	libc6 maybe	00:21
javispedro	O.o	00:21
DocScrutinizer	wouldn't it be cool to "press escape" and make the pumping dots vanish, in favour of a proper console. Like on any normal desktop linux	00:21
alterego	This is never going to work again :(	00:21
nox-	DocScrutinizer, i think framebuffer console is unstable on n900?	00:22
* javispedro would prefer a plain serial port console		00:22
nox-	isnt that under the battery?	00:22
DocScrutinizer	it actually is	00:22
alterego	You can probably use usb serial console :)	00:22
nox-	mh	00:22
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DocScrutinizer	gazu: you have it hooked up to charger meanwhile?	00:23
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lcuk	gazu, charge up battery and reflash again?	00:23
gazu	no but is full charged	00:23
gazu	I did this the 3rth time	00:24
DocScrutinizer	I'd like to know if it's charging anyway. I also would be interested if it locks screen with slide button	00:24
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gazu	charges and the locks is also working	00:25
DocScrutinizer	finally you should try to reboot it	00:25
gazu	with the power button?	00:26
DocScrutinizer	yes, for a first shot	00:26
gazu	doing it right now!!	00:27
DocScrutinizer	I mean 40 min, there's little hope it will ever finish	00:27
gazu	buy now only the loading screen	00:28
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lcuk	ok gazu	00:29
lcuk	i am pondering whether eMMC is correctly partitioned or if it is corrupt	00:30
newbie007	Hi I've downloaded a flv file from youtube using the youtube-dl program. I'm unable to play this using Media player. I get an invalid format error. Is there anyway to make this work?	00:30
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: same idea here	00:30
lcuk	I believe that even without firstboot you can plug into usb and access the fat partition?	00:30
lcuk	that could give you a clue	00:30
lcuk	ie, if it connects but offers a corrupt fs then something is up	00:30
MohammadAG	newbie007, probably more than 800x480 in res size	00:30
MohammadAG	use -f 18 when downloading	00:31
DocScrutinizer	alas MassStorage doesn't export /home partition	00:31
newbie007	oh	00:31
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, but it does MyDocs	00:31
javispedro	maemo doesn't export /home	00:31
javispedro	meego rescue does	00:31
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:31
lcuk	and thats a reasonable initial indicator	00:31
lcuk	and a chance to offload some data	00:31
MohammadAG	(it does with the initrd image!)	00:31
DocScrutinizer	pondering to suggest rescue initrd	00:31
MohammadAG	javispedro, indeed :)	00:31
MohammadAG	just charge the battery fully(!!!)	00:31
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: there's no data to offload	00:31
MohammadAG	it lacks bme	00:31
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, ?	00:32
DocScrutinizer	flashed VANILLA	00:32
lcuk	on my MyDocs theres ~10gb of photos	00:32
MohammadAG	and WILL shutdown without warning	00:32
MohammadAG	= partition table damage	00:32
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MohammadAG	mine shutdown right when it moved on to the next step	00:32
MohammadAG	so I was safe :D	00:32
javispedro	never say safe	00:33
javispedro	with a mmc controller that is	00:33
javispedro	it could do the wrong thing on powerloss	00:33
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: [2010-12-22 23:08:06] <gazu> sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f	00:33
MohammadAG	s/safe/lucky/	00:33
infobot	MohammadAG meant: so I was lucky :D	00:33
MohammadAG	javispedro, ;)	00:34
DocScrutinizer	s/lucky/special/	00:34
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, ahh ok	00:34
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* MohammadAG grumbles		00:34
MohammadAG	:P	00:34
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: that's what makes me frown	00:34
DocScrutinizer	if eMMC is corrupted, then something is severely fishy	00:35
gazu	thanks lcuk, but I did that already	00:36
DocScrutinizer	gazu: you should check the MD5 of your img files	00:36
gazu	ok	00:36
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, afaik if it was wrong, it wouldn't flash	00:36
MohammadAG	though I might be wrong	00:36
DocScrutinizer	yeah, but you never know	00:36
DocScrutinizer	start at root	00:36
MohammadAG	indeed, remember when I flashed a dd'd image? :P	00:37
DocScrutinizer	hehe	00:37
MohammadAG	and I lost a beer to you	00:37
DocScrutinizer	still waiting for it	00:37
DocScrutinizer	:-D	00:37
MohammadAG	#meego-bar, lcuk will arrange everything	00:37
DocScrutinizer	:-D	00:37
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: don't go there! he will give you guinness!!	00:38
DocScrutinizer	with bacon?	00:38
lcuk	and pigs in blankets nibbles	00:38
MohammadAG	excuse my ignorance	00:39
jacekowski	MohammadAG: flashed dd image?	00:39
jacekowski	MohammadAG: moar details	00:39
MohammadAG	what's guinness	00:39
jacekowski	MohammadAG: dark beer	00:39
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, it failed halfway through	00:39
DocScrutinizer	very special brew of beer	00:39
MohammadAG	jacekowski, I just dd'd an image of /dev/mtd5 somewhere	00:39
newbie007	MohammadAG: the resolution is 490x360	00:39
jacekowski	MohammadAG: irish, only for people that like that kind of beer	00:40
MohammadAG	(with fedora of course)	00:40
MohammadAG	then wrote it with flasher	00:40
MohammadAG	it failed	00:40
jacekowski	tastes little bit like it was burnt	00:40
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lcuk	its only nice when its cold o_O	00:40
DocScrutinizer	that's from the peat they use to cook it	00:40
ArGGu^^	is here pc linux users?	00:40
DocScrutinizer	here is #maemo	00:41
MohammadAG	No, we use FreeDOS :P	00:41
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, at the Meego conf we got an entire night of history and drinking	00:41
lcuk	the Storehouse tour was awesome	00:41
MohammadAG	newbie007, no idea, install decoders-support	00:41
MohammadAG	that would have been boring to me lcuk :P	00:41
* MohammadAG doesn't drink		00:42
jacekowski	lcuk: i don't like it	00:42
ArGGu^^	Well anybody know is there any way to detect if fan is stopped	00:42
ArGGu^^	lm-sensors wont show fan speed	00:42
MohammadAG	physically?	00:42
ArGGu^^	/proc/acpi/fan is empty	00:42
javispedro	hah!	00:42
DocScrutinizer	ArGGu^^: here is #maemo	00:42
lcuk	MohammadAG, it was awe inspiring actually	00:42
MohammadAG	other than that, sorry, idk :P	00:42
MohammadAG	lcuk, history of maemo right?	00:42
DocScrutinizer	ArGGu^^: maemo devices quite usually have no fan	00:42
jacekowski	MohammadAG: i feel sorry for you	00:42
jacekowski	MohammadAG: you should start drinking	00:42
javispedro	ArGGu^^: open case, put finger in fan?	00:43
MohammadAG	"And there it was, PR1.2!!! Then came chuck norris and it was delayed by a thread"	00:43
MohammadAG	lcuk, you found that thread interesting right?	00:43
ArGGu^^	DocScrutinizer I just asked beacuse I think someone here might know	00:43
MohammadAG	jacekowski, meh, don't smoke either	00:43
newbie007	what is pr1.2, how can I tell if I have it?	00:43
lcuk	MohammadAG, sure I did	00:44
lcuk	hold on a mo	00:44
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ArGGu^^	People who are using maemo might also use linux on pc	00:44
MohammadAG	idk, I just feel that both things are retarded, except on occasions	00:44
jacekowski	MohammadAG: smoking is bad	00:44
jacekowski	MohammadAG: drinking isn't	00:44
javispedro	everything is bad.	00:44
MohammadAG	(getting addicted to smoking/being an alcoholic)	00:44
javispedro	drinking is bad. not drinking is bad.	00:44
jacekowski	let's have some sex	00:44
jacekowski	that's never bad	00:44
pupnik	programming is good	00:44
newbie007	someone kick him	00:44
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MohammadAG	you can earn that without drinking jacekowski :P	00:45
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jacekowski	newbie007: leave	00:45
MohammadAG	seriously, find a gf/wife :P	00:45
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: that's in fact the root of all evil	00:45
alterego	jacekowski: sex is never bad, until you wake up the next morning and you don't know where you are.	00:45
alterego	Or why your ass hurts.	00:45
* alterego chuckles		00:45
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jacekowski	alterego: never happened to me	00:45
MohammadAG	LMFAO	00:45
jacekowski	i mean part of it happened	00:46
lcuk	MohammadAG, NSFW HUGE LARGE IMAGES STRESSTEST http://liqbase.net/thread.42285.pg001.to.689.imagelist_proc.html	00:46
jacekowski	liek where am i	00:46
alterego	Heh	00:46
jacekowski	like*	00:46
lcuk	complete list of all pictures that existed in that thread	00:46
MohammadAG	lcuk, wow, lol	00:46
lcuk	and yes, there are some boob shots	00:46
lcuk	people REALLY wanted pr1.2 :)	00:46
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MohammadAG	lcuk, shall I start the PR1.4 thread?	00:46
MohammadAG	it'll go off topic in the second reply anyways	00:47
DocScrutinizer	bah, 1.7	00:47
lcuk	i would rather have a meego one and bring over all the apps :)	00:47
Pradeep	sex is good	00:47
Pradeep	but to much is bad to	00:47
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, no	00:47
Pradeep	cos of cancer when you get older	00:47
MohammadAG	1.3.3.7	00:47
lcuk	Pradeep, for that there is always lubrication	00:47
DocScrutinizer	YEAH	00:47
MohammadAG	actually, I should release the SSU like that	00:47
lcuk	yes	00:47
MohammadAG	PR1.3.3.7	00:48
lcuk	:) thats an excellent hacker version	00:48
DocScrutinizer	I'm all for that	00:48
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Pradeep	as somking goes with lung cancer like sex goes with postrate cancer	00:48
MohammadAG	lcuk, or swappolube!	00:48
DocScrutinizer	or fapman?	00:49
DocScrutinizer	(just in a pinch)	00:49
MohammadAG	swappolube	00:50
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MohammadAG	fapman	00:50
Pradeep	alterego, wats up how was work today	00:50
MohammadAG	liqballs (cc lcuk)	00:50
alterego	Heh	00:50
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	00:50
lcuk	MohammadAG,	00:50
Pradeep	everyone at my work place talking about the xmas	00:50
lcuk	on a scroll bar, what sthe technical name for the thing you grab to move the list?	00:50
Pradeep	formatted all the system in office into linux mint	00:51
MohammadAG	slider?	00:51
Pradeep	cos windows virus was slowing the network down	00:51
* alterego contemplates giving up and dropping Qt Mobility geoloc api for liblocation directly.		00:51
MohammadAG	lcuk, I always see it as scrollbar	00:51
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: slider handle?	00:51
MohammadAG	hence, QScrollBar	00:51
javispedro	lcuk: microsoft usually calls it the scroll box	00:52
* MohammadAG wonders if this is a real question		00:52
DocScrutinizer	cough	00:52
MohammadAG	puke	00:52
jacekowski	lcuk: slider	00:53
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, how do you insult linux?	00:53
MohammadAG	like this http://i55.tinypic.com/27ycyf9.jpg	00:53
DocScrutinizer	:shudder:	00:54
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gazu	going for one more flash	00:55
* DocScrutinizer runs for his budesonid		00:55
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG: cough and puke all you want, but they usually employ actual documentation writers with enough salary to lookup exactly this kind of trivia	00:55
DocScrutinizer	it's still a slider handle	00:55
Pradeep	anyway is it possible to have blackberry pin on n900	00:56
DocScrutinizer	I couldn't figuer for the life of me what's a scrollbox	00:56
MohammadAG	fwiw, Qt calls it a scrollbox too	00:56
MohammadAG	which is a widget with a scrollbar	00:56
DocScrutinizer	actually I thought a scrollbox is something like the qt date/time settings abomination	00:56
DocScrutinizer	a scrollbox yeah, a widget with text and a scrollbar. Never ever the handle of the scrollbar slider	00:57
DocScrutinizer	whatever	00:58
javispedro	:)	00:58
* DocScrutinizer gasps		00:58
DocScrutinizer	re	01:00
DocScrutinizer	anyway, if it were a box, there at least could be something inside it, no?	01:01
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MohammadAG	i'm off to bed	01:01
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: n8	01:01
javispedro	cya MohammadAG	01:01
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, widgets, supposedly	01:01
MohammadAG	night :)	01:01
viniciuspt	Hello for all	01:02
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gazu	should i just send back to nokia??	01:03
DocScrutinizer	gazu: no luck?	01:03
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gazu	noop	01:03
DocScrutinizer	:-/	01:03
DocScrutinizer	weird	01:04
gazu	but just 5 minutes after the last try	01:04
DocScrutinizer	well, we seen broken eMMC before	01:04
gazu	what then?	01:04
javispedro	on a Nokia center they might be able to reflash it on site	01:04
viniciuspt	anyone know how good the maemo development? Maemo 6 will be launched?	01:05
viniciuspt	I think the worst thing, Nokia has "abandoned"the platform!	01:05
DocScrutinizer	I'd try with meego recue initrd	01:05
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alterego	I need someone who's much better at debugging than me to fix this I think :(	01:06
DocScrutinizer	<advocatus diaboli> the platform and OS is perfect. Nokia hasn't abandoned it, they just finished mission	01:06
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alterego	Heh	01:07
Venemo	lol DocScrutinizer	01:07
jacekowski	alterego: ?	01:07
jacekowski	javispedro: just one question, are you doing anything with preenv or something?	01:07
Venemo	viniciuspt: Maemo 6 will use the MeeGo handset ux afaik, plus some closed source crap	01:07
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jacekowski	javispedro: ability to rotate accelerometer would be nice	01:08
alterego	jacekowski: I did a bit of refactoring, and it seems everytime I do, qt mobility geo location stops working for no apparent reason.	01:08
javispedro	jacekowski: trivial, noted.	01:08
gazu	how to I know if the emmc is broken?	01:08
javispedro	probably will do nothing until past christmas though :)	01:09
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jacekowski	javispedro: is it on github or somewhere?	01:09
DocScrutinizer	gazu: boot into meego rescue initrd, then mount eMMc oartitions and fsck	01:09
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javispedro	jacekowski: http://gitorious.org/preenv/preenv/blobs/master/libsdlpre/joystick.c#line121	01:10
gazu	thanks I'm going to try	01:10
jacekowski	what license is it on?	01:11
DocScrutinizer	gazu: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd	01:11
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javispedro	jacekowski: lgpl2	01:12
javispedro	(that lib)	01:12
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alterego	How can I find out if a binary executable calls a specific function?	01:15
viniciuspt	Does anyone know whether it is true that the development of June maemo is frozen?	01:15
javispedro	alterego: gdb and breakpoint? :)	01:16
alterego	javispedro: I'm not good enough to do that.	01:16
javispedro	b <function_name>	01:16
alterego	I'm using GDB now, but the problem is, this code is in a shared lib I link against.	01:16
javispedro	debug the executable, it will usually do the right thing	01:17
alterego	Hrm, it's not showing the class I'm looking for though :/	01:17
javispedro	it won't until executable loads the library	01:17
javispedro	ah, this is C++?	01:17
alterego	Yes	01:17
jacekowski	uuu	01:17
viniciuspt	huasssssss (google translate) ....	01:17
jacekowski	name mangling ftw	01:17
javispedro	consider name mangling --	01:17
javispedro	heh	01:17
alterego	All the others seem fine :P	01:18
viniciuspt	Does anyone know whether it is true that the development of maemo 6 is frozen?	01:18
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alterego	viniciuspt: I wouldn't want to guess.	01:18
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alterego	javispedro: if I give you my binary and my two libs, do you think you could poke at it?	01:19
javispedro	guess so. arm?	01:19
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alterego	Yeah	01:19
alterego	Not sure how to test in scratchbox because of lack of location stuff in scratchbox.	01:19
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javispedro	also, gdb on sb is very probably broken	01:20
alterego	Heh	01:20
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alterego	javispedro: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/columbus-broken.tar.gz	01:23
alterego	Anyhelp would be appreciated.	01:23
alterego	Basically, I can't figure out why location services aren't being started.	01:23
javispedro	heh	01:23
alterego	As far as that control logic is concerned, nothing had changed.	01:24
alterego	All I've done is refactor out a load of code into "libcolumbus"	01:24
alterego	And made the "columbus" executable basically only handle UI stuff.	01:25
alterego	Though, this has happened to me before, in a previous version and I managed to magically fix it by changing the order in which I create satellite info and position info source qt objects :/	01:26
alterego	Whatever is going on, it's not simple. There's something really fsck'd :/	01:26
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alterego	Basically, I'm looking for the little satellite dish to appear in the status area ;)	01:28
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javispedro	worked here	01:32
javispedro	is it random, or ?	01:32
alterego	What?	01:32
alterego	IT worked?!	01:32
javispedro	yeah, dish icon and some sats enumerated on signal bars	01:32
javispedro	hum	01:33
* javispedro ponders		01:33
javispedro	I noticed that you gave me librxsupport.so	01:33
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javispedro	but the executable DEPENDS on librxsupport.so.1	01:33
alterego	Yeah, has some maemo5 widgets I made.	01:33
javispedro	maybe you're overwriting librxsupport.so instead of .so.1	01:33
javispedro	?	01:33
alterego	Sorry, symlinks are missing.	01:33
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MohammadAG	crap, can't sleep again	01:34
alterego	neah, .so, .so.1 and .so.1.0 are symlinks to .so.1.0.0 on my machine.	01:34
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javispedro	just checking :P	01:34
javispedro	(same for libcolumbus itself)	01:35
alterego	That goes for libcolumbus too.	01:35
comawhite	wtf, if I try renaming songs like 03 - Weißes Fleisch.mp3 it renames it automatically to 03 - WeiÃes Fleisch.mp3	01:35
alterego	There must be some kind of state my N900 is in that yours isn't in, which is causing this.	01:35
javispedro	reboot =)	01:36
comawhite	i wonder why the hell it's done in vfat in the first place >.<	01:36
alterego	What's "location-proxy" ?	01:36
alterego	/usr/bin/location-proxy	01:36
javispedro	a required daemon	01:36
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alterego	Okay	01:36
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MohammadAG	comawhite, windows	01:36
comawhite	blah	01:36
comawhite	effin windows	01:36
* alterego thinks for a bit.		01:37
gazu	the same thing just the loading dots	01:37
alterego	Okay, I've got an idea, if restarting my N900 doesn't work, I think I know what's up	01:37
gazu	is driving me crazy the phone is almost new	01:38
MohammadAG	alterego, it's a conspiracy to make you lose your uptime	01:38
alterego	I've wasted almost an entire fscking day on this	01:38
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javispedro	either way, where did you want to put the breakpoint?	01:39
alterego	Where's that gps-cache-reset program?	01:39
alterego	javispedro: doesn't matter now.	01:39
alterego	javispedro: if it works on yours then it can't be the code.	01:39
alterego	And it's made me think, maybe the code was never broken.	01:39
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alterego	Maybe at somepoint my GPS has got screwed	01:39
javispedro	depends on what you want to debug =)	01:39
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alterego	Well, my device is the one that's not working.	01:40
MohammadAG	alterego, it works for me	01:40
* javispedro wants to find more crap in mobility		01:40
gazu	what should i do now??	01:40
alterego	I could charge it up and mail it to you ;)	01:40
MohammadAG	alterego, solid satellite	01:40
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: the two's compliment of a positive number is itself, right?	01:40
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: right?	01:44
alterego	MohammadAG: you're a bitch as well :P	01:44
DocScrutinizer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two's_complement	01:44
MohammadAG	alterego, I object! :P	01:44
alterego	Found it, "clear-gps-cache" thought I had it in my archive	01:44
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I read it already	01:44
comawhite	this sucks no custom ringtones for contacts :(	01:44
comawhite	just global one	01:44
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I'm just not sure. could you answer my question?	01:44
Venemo	comawhite: there's an app for that	01:45
DocScrutinizer	the answer is no	01:45
alterego	Okay, that didn't work.	01:45
alterego	Attempting restart	01:45
MohammadAG	alterego, ship the device	01:45
comawhite	Venemo, where!!!!!	01:45
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DocScrutinizer	technically the two's complement of N is -N usually iirc	01:45
* MohammadAG sets up ebay account		01:46
Venemo	comawhite: I believe the package name is ringtoned and it appears as "custom ringtones for your contacts" in app mgr	01:46
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: for a negative number, I remember that it is ~(-N)+1	01:47
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: where by ~, i mean bitwise negation	01:47
comawhite	Venemo, fucking thank you :D	01:47
MohammadAG	alterego, works for me :P	01:47
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: that correct?	01:47
MohammadAG	alterego, just checked again	01:47
comawhite	Venemo, you using pidgeon plugins for conversations?	01:48
Venemo	comawhite: no.	01:48
comawhite	ah	01:48
Venemo	comawhite: but you can	01:49
alterego	Still	01:49
comawhite	yeah i know, just having problem with it and was wondering if you had it too	01:49
alterego	Still doesn't work O_O	01:49
alterego	After clearing the cache, and after a restart.	01:50
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MohammadAG	alterego, it hates you	01:50
MohammadAG	alterego, got libqtm-location?	01:50
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: looks correct, yes	01:51
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: is that formula correct for positive numbers too?	01:51
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alterego	MohammadAG: Would it not be there if I've been, for the past months developing a GPS app with it :P	01:51
DocScrutinizer	try it and you'll see	01:51
MohammadAG	alterego, maybe? xP	01:51
gazu	what should go first the emmc and then combined??	01:52
MohammadAG	what you want, just don't use -R	01:52
MohammadAG	whichever*	01:52
gazu	thanks	01:53
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I'm sorry, I'm just thinking about this for some time now	01:53
MohammadAG	gah, need to sleep	01:54
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alterego	Me too, but I'm going insane trying to figure this out :(	01:54
* MohammadAG counts columbus's source code lines and tries to sleep		01:55
DocScrutinizer	-N = ~N +1	01:55
alterego	:)	01:55
DocScrutinizer	or	01:55
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DocScrutinizer	N * -1 = ~N + 1	01:55
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: what does N* mean?	01:55
alterego	MohammadAG: 12956 in total now	01:55
alterego	Venemo: multiplication :P	01:56
Venemo	oh.	01:56
Venemo	right	01:56
MohammadAG	alterego, still can't sleep, should I read them all and make each one segfault?	01:56
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I still can't figure out however how to do this for a positive number. it's just too late in the evening for me to think about stuff like this	01:56
DocScrutinizer	-1. = 0b1111 ~-1=0b0000 ~-1 + 1 = 0b0001 = 1.	01:57
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alterego	MohammadAG: study the code and search for memory leaks ..	01:57
alterego	Without valgrind! :D	01:57
* MohammadAG sleeps		01:57
MohammadAG	what's valgrind? :P	01:57
derf	...	01:57
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: so the same formula applies as I see	01:58
DocScrutinizer	1. = 0b0001 ~1. = 0b1110 ~1. + 1 = 0b1111 = -1.	01:58
Venemo	MohammadAG: it's a memory leak debugging tool	01:58
alterego	Venemo: I think he was being sarcastic :P	01:58
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: now you got me confused.	01:59
alterego	Great .. It's working now .	01:59
alterego	But why did it stop working I want to know >_<	01:59
Venemo	alterego: because it's lazy	01:59
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nox-	~1 is the same as 1 xorg -1	02:00
infobot	...but 1 is already something else...	02:00
nox-	err xor	02:00
javispedro	nice operator	02:00
MohammadAG	~1	02:00
infobot	1 is a number, silly	02:00
nox-	.oO(i did it again... :)	02:00
MohammadAG	fuck off infobot :)	02:00
MohammadAG	~2	02:00
infobot	It's TO, not '2'. This is not l33t3 sp34k nor is this AOL.	02:00
alterego	Okay, stopped working now. So I've reproduced it ..	02:01
DocScrutinizer	~ 0b0001	02:01
DocScrutinizer	~ 0xFF	02:02
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DocScrutinizer	~ 8044918913761641 * 984298136376	02:02
infobot	7918598694111617990178897920	02:02
* javispedro hits gentoo		02:03
javispedro	so they dropped dbus' .la files, great.	02:03
alterego	Okay, seems the problem is something to do with my plugins ..	02:03
MohammadAG	~1/0	02:04
nox-	~ 1/0	02:04
nox-	~ ~1	02:04
MohammadAG	~ 1 / 0	02:04
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: let's take -4. 4=0b0010 -> 0b1101 -> 0b1110. then let's take +4. -4=0b1110 -> 0b0001 -> 0b0010 which is exactly the same as the binary form of 4	02:05
DocScrutinizer	eeeh?	02:05
DocScrutinizer	in my book 4 = 0b0100	02:06
alterego	:)	02:06
Venemo	oh, sorry, typo'd	02:06
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* MohammadAG tries to sleep, o/		02:06
Venemo	so 4 is 0b0100 -> ~4 is 0b1011 -> ~4+1 is 0b1100, so the two's compliment of -4 is 0b1100. that correct?	02:07
DocScrutinizer	0b0010 = +2 0b1110 = -2	02:08
Venemo	as I said, I typo'd in the previous one, but right, that was 2 and not 4	02:08
DocScrutinizer	no, the two's complement of 4 is 0b1100	02:08
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DocScrutinizer	or -4	02:09
Venemo	that's what I said	02:09
* alterego contemplates why his dynamic plugin loading effects liblocation		02:09
alterego	~affects	02:09
DocScrutinizer	[2010-12-23 01:07:34] <Venemo>the two's compliment of -4 is 0b1100	02:09
Venemo	yeah, and this is what you said too	02:10
DocScrutinizer	no	02:10
Venemo	[01:08] <DocScrutinizer> no, the two's complement of 4 is 0b1100 ---> [01:09] <DocScrutinizer> or -4	02:10
DocScrutinizer	0b1100 = -4	02:10
Venemo	exactly	02:10
DocScrutinizer	which is the two's cmplement of 4 = 0b0100	02:11
DocScrutinizer	dammit	02:11
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Venemo	nah, you're misunderstanding me then	02:11
DocScrutinizer	no	02:11
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DocScrutinizer	you're misunderstanding two's complement. it's an operator, not a data representation	02:11
Venemo	well, we learned it as a data representation	02:12
Venemo	or maybe I'm just not familiar with the correct English term for it - sorry then	02:12
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pupnik	a lot of folks here understand software freedom	02:13
derf	It is both an operator and a data representation.	02:13
DocScrutinizer	>>A two's-complement system or two's-complement arithmetic is a system in which negative numbers are represented by the two's complement of the absolute value<<	02:13
derf	The operator defines the data representation.	02:13
Venemo	yeah, I understand it as how derf says	02:13
Choom	one's complement and sign-and-magnitude are also operators	02:14
derf	You can only say '0b1100 = -4' _because_ you're using two's complement.	02:14
DocScrutinizer	TWO'S_COMPLEMENT(<positive number> ) = <negative number of same absolute value>	02:14
derf	As the data representation.	02:14
DocScrutinizer	that's an operator	02:15
Venemo	right.	02:15
Choom	the only difference between them is the data representation	02:15
derf	In one's complement, 0b1100 = -3.	02:15
derf	But 0b1100 is still the two's complement of 4.	02:16
DocScrutinizer	MEH	02:16
Venemo	okay, so point is: decimal '4' is stored as 0b0100 and decimal '-4' is stored as 0b1100 inside the memory (assuming we're talking about 4-bit integers)	02:17
derf	Sorry, you people were driving me insane with your talking past each other.	02:17
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DocScrutinizer	all my assembler menmonics do convert +N -> -N with a instruction called something like 2s-comp	02:19
DocScrutinizer	mnemonics*	02:20
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: my question was intended towards how to compute from an arbitrary decimal number its representation in the computer's memory	02:21
DocScrutinizer	as in that system negative numbers are represented by the two's complement of their positive counterpart	02:21
Venemo	right. :)	02:21
Venemo	now it's all clear :)	02:21
alterego	I bet there's something weird with gobject module loading and qt module loading that is screwing this up somehow.	02:21
Venemo	thank you DocScrutinizer and derf :)	02:22
javispedro	alterego: didn't you just said that it wasn't on your binary?	02:22
alterego	javispedro: IT wasn't, you didn't have the plugins :P	02:22
alterego	It's the plugins, not my binary.	02:22
alterego	Well, probably the plugin loader, which is in libcolumbus ;)	02:23
javispedro	so	02:23
javispedro	you're saying that loading certain "plugin" to your binary causes qtmobiliy to stop initializising liblocation?	02:23
alterego	Yes	02:23
alterego	Loading _any_ plugin I suspect.	02:23
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alterego	As they're all pretty much identical.	02:24
javispedro	source is on gitorious?	02:24
alterego	Not mine no.	02:25
alterego	I'm looking at mobilities source at the moment to see what could be going on.	02:25
alterego	At least I've got a lead now	02:25
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: seems that I used bad terminology when I asked the question then	02:25
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DocScrutinizer	Venemo: (how to compute from an arbitrary decimal number) convert \|N\| -> binary, then if N<0 apply two's complement	02:30
DocScrutinizer	for int	02:32
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DocScrutinizer	for reals I guess it's a bit more involved	02:32
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: yeah, I was asking for int, and already figured out from what you've said. :)	02:33
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I remember now. for fixed-point numbers it's almost equally as simple, and floating points are somehow complicated	02:33
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: anyway, thanks for answering.	02:34
DocScrutinizer51	yw	02:34
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* Venemo should start learning for his digital design exam		02:35
alterego	:)	02:35
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alterego	Designing an ALU or something? :)	02:36
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javispedro	oh	02:37
javispedro	the rumours of windows nt for arm are growing larger	02:37
javispedro	I wonder if it's just the original shitball rolling down and getting larger or new information	02:38
Venemo	alterego: yeah that'll be there too.	02:39
Venemo	alterego: for now, I needed this stuff for some low-level programming homework	02:39
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alterego	Definitely something strange going on ..	02:55
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alterego	Well, fsck me	02:59
alterego	It is just one plugin that's screwed.	02:59
alterego	O_o	02:59
BCMM	javispedro: huh. it would make sense, but on the other hand, it would make sense not to	03:01
alterego	Don't see how though >:(	03:01
BCMM	i mean, at the moment, windows is what you run on a PC. for most people, installing something else on a PC feels like you're using it for something it might not be supposed to do, like installing something else on a mac	03:01
BCMM	there are other things that are not pcs, but windows doesn't run on them	03:02
BCMM	if they break the perceived one-to-one mapping there, they're suddenly fighting on a somewhat more level playing field	03:02
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BCMM	javispedro: got a link for the rumours?	03:03
javispedro	BCMM: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-21/microsoft-is-said-to-announce-version-of-windows-for-arm-chips-at-ces-show.html	03:03
javispedro	BCMM: also, our own tmo: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=902476	03:04
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BCMM	javispedro: imho, the .net framework was intended to prepere them for an arch change, if necessary	03:04
BCMM	i mean, if they ran only on x86, in the event of other architechtures becoming much, much faster/cheaper, they'd be kinda screwed	03:05
javispedro	well, there's no need to said that stuff about nt running on nearly 6 or 7 different arches	03:05
BCMM	taht many?	03:06
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BCMM	anyway, NT for Alpha failed for lack of applications, right?	03:06
BCMM	i mean, third-party binaries that ran on it	03:07
javispedro	well, I don't know why it failed.	03:07
BCMM	javispedro: well, i've heard that nothing ran on it. it was a small target, and nobody else bothered to ship alpha binaries of windows software	03:07
BCMM	with .net, they can port to an architechture and have a bunch of third-party apps from day one	03:08
javispedro	it probably had more users than n900 users when they killed the port =)	03:08
BCMM	the n900 is also a very small target	03:08
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Venemo	yeah	03:15
Venemo	this is why they ceased supporting IA64 too	03:16
Venemo	BCMM: btw the reason most people use Windows is because that has the most driver support too	03:17
BCMM	i genuinly don't think that's true any more	03:18
BCMM	i've had plenty of experiences in which i've spent ages hunting for drivers on some .tw written in badly-translated chinese	03:19
BCMM	for a device that "just worked" when plugged in to a linux box	03:19
Venemo	well then	03:20
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BCMM	why do taiwanese hardware manufacturers always have two web servers? there's a fast one for the actual web site, and a special slow, unreliable one for the drivers and manuals and firmware images and so on	03:20
Venemo	BCMM: please hunt me a driver 1) for my wireless to just work 2) for my graphics card that can switch the brightness of my screen 3) for my volume control buttons	03:20
Venemo	BCMM: these 3 things is what's missing for my laptop for Linux	03:21
javispedro	seems weird that you'd be missing volume control buttons	03:21
BCMM	Venemo: heh. find me a windows driver for my volume buttons.	03:21
Venemo	BCMM: :P	03:21
BCMM	windows works OK because it was installed when you got the machine.	03:21
BCMM	i "downgraded" my Vista laptop to xp/linux dual-boot	03:21
BCMM	actually installing windows on a laptop shows you what dreadful shape driver support is in	03:22
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Venemo	well I can head on to Fujitsu's site and dl the win7 drivers for these stuff. they don't have linux in their drivers section.	03:22
Venemo	then I can go to the wireless manufacturer's page and compile the wireless driver, but it won't work flawlessly	03:23
BCMM	Venemo: in many cases, that's because linux drivers are supported in the kernel, rather than by the manufacturer	03:23
Venemo	the driver is OSS, they could put it into the kernel if wanted to	03:23
Venemo	anyway	03:23
Venemo	the volume control works sometimes, but most of the time not, and the brightness control just doesn't. ever.	03:23
javispedro	"most of the time"? O.o	03:24
BCMM	Venemo: like i said, try installing windows on it...	03:24
Venemo	BCMM: I have Win7 on it for which these things work	03:25
BCMM	that came with it, or that you installed?	03:25
BCMM	windows on laptops plays nice with teh hardware because somebody else has put in the hours cursing at random problems for you	03:25
javispedro	more like	03:26
Venemo	I bought the version that didn't have an OS (because it was cheaper), but the more expensive versions of the same laptop have win7 on them yes	03:26
javispedro	because someone knew they could be able to fix their stupid hardware in stupid kernel mode drivers so they didn't obther to make proper hardware on the first place.	03:26
BCMM	so it's hardware specifically designed for that OS.	03:26
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javispedro	*would	03:26
Venemo	yep, unfortunately	03:26
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Venemo	when I bought the laptop, Linux support wasn't a priority yet. (I was a big M$ fan at the time, but not any longer)	03:27
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Venemo	next time (1-2 yrs from now or later) I will specifically look for a laptop with good Linux driver support. until then, I'm stuck with this one	03:29
Venemo	btw, do you know any laptop manufacturer which cares about Linux drivers?	03:29
BCMM	Venemo: you can buy laptops with Linux pre-installed	03:31
BCMM	tbh, driver support is all right if you with decent hardware, to some extent	03:32
DocScrutinizer-8	my esprimo came with linux and yet has no proper gfx driver	03:32
BCMM	i mean, if you have an SiS graphics chip, it probably won't work right under linux	03:32
BCMM	or under windows.	03:32
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DocScrutinizer-8	yeah	03:32
Venemo	DocScrutinizer-8: what gfx card does it have?	03:32
DocScrutinizer-8	SIS here	03:32
Venemo	oh.	03:33
BCMM	DocScrutinizer-8: if you are lucky, you can make it work using some horribly hackery	03:33
BCMM	SiS is one of the most intentionally awkward companies for linux driver support	03:33
Venemo	well my Fujitsu has an NVidia card for which there's a somewhat usable properitary driver	03:34
BCMM	but that's OK, because their stuff basically sucks at a hardware level anyway	03:34
Venemo	hehe :D	03:34
BCMM	the proprietary nvidia driver has gotta be the best proprietary driver on linux	03:34
BCMM	it's very annoying that they won't open it, but they do nearly everything right apart from that	03:35
Venemo	it is not bad, just buggy sometimes	03:35
DocScrutinizer-8	driving the 800v by 786v fb is a PITA	03:35
BCMM	for example, when new versions of KDE's Kwin started finding performance issues in previously rarely-used functions, they engaged with the kde community well and got it fixed really fast	03:35
* javispedro notes that the nvidia driver is also known for doing things "their way2		03:36
javispedro	"	03:36
BCMM	ati's proprietary driver is dreadfully buggy, but since AMD took them over, they've been helping with the open driver	03:36
BCMM	which is getting very nice	03:36
BCMM	javispedro: yeah, and as of late not supporting the way things are going (KMS, gallium, etc.)	03:36
Venemo	well it would be just enough if it could connect to my external display without issue	03:37
BCMM	but it works pretty well most of the time, gets bug fixes when it's broken, and performs better than the windows driver in some cases	03:37
Venemo	yeah, true, true	03:37
BCMM	yeah, that's a bit of a problem	03:37
javispedro	BCMM: if that's the reason their driver is the only one that "works", I leave as an exercise to the reader	03:37
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BCMM	it handles multiple monitors in it's own way, which is a stupid thing to do	03:37
Venemo	but opposing the windows driver, it can't control my screen's brightness.	03:38
javispedro	(not using KMS, gallium, etc.)	03:38
BCMM	javispedro: i said it was the best propriatary one.	03:38
BCMM	the open source intel and radeon drivers work better	03:38
javispedro	at 1/8 the performance at best	03:38
Venemo	I would use Nouveau of course, but the 3D performance of that makes me cry	03:39
BCMM	the radeon driver is improving fast	03:39
javispedro	that's what I've been reading for a decade.	03:39
javispedro	yet.	03:39
BCMM	faster than nouveau, which has to work with a basically uncooperative vendor	03:39
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BCMM	teh handling of multiple monitors in nvidia is stupid. standard tools that work with proper drivers always see one big monitor. you can only configure it using nvidia-settings	03:40
javispedro	it doesn't matter. the entire graphics stack is foobar'd. no one sane would release anything remotely useful because it is a patent minefield.	03:40
Venemo	:(	03:40
* Venemo thinks that sw patents should be eliminated completely		03:41
BCMM	Venemo++	03:41
javispedro	it is also a copyright minefield, fwiw. are we still using s3tc?	03:41
BCMM	a better term is "maths patents"	03:41
* javispedro guesses "yes"		03:41
javispedro	so	03:41
BCMM	anyway, that's presumably why AMD is taking the approach of helping the open-source driver with docs, rather than just dumping the fglrx code on the community	03:41
Venemo	BCMM: did you see the movie titled patent absurdity?	03:42
BCMM	well, that and teh fact taht the fglrx code is surely very, very embarrasing	03:42
BCMM	Venemo: no.	03:42
javispedro	BCMM: most of the work is still done by a single amd employee.	03:42
Venemo	you should.	03:42
BCMM	javispedro: how much does that matter, for the purposes of releasing specs?	03:43
javispedro	and, for some reason, my multimonitor setup works an order of magnitude better with nvcontrol than xrandr	03:43
BCMM	in that case, they basically have the docs internally, an the important thing is that they're allowing them out	03:43
javispedro	because what you're going to do with the register specs, other than do a crappy driver.	03:44
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javispedro	cards themselves have not changed virtually anything themselves, as a quick look over the intel manuals tells.	03:45
Venemo	what do you guys think about intel gfx cards and drivers?	03:45
javispedro	same.	03:45
javispedro	1/8 of what you get on windows.	03:46
BCMM	really?	03:46
Venemo	I think intel is compensating for the crappyness of its hw by making the driver oss	03:46
javispedro	BCMM: 1/2 actually	03:46
BCMM	I have seen for myself that the drivers for certain intel GMA chips allow pretty impressive desktop effects	03:46
Aranel_	How good is WH-205? Is Sennheiser CX281 better?	03:46
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BCMM	with stability.	03:46
javispedro	scrap that.	03:46
javispedro	1/4	03:47
BCMM	i mean, pretty impressive given the hardware they're running on	03:47
javispedro	I wanted to see what would happen if Intel gets serious about Meego.	03:47
javispedro	they will need hw to run it on.	03:47
javispedro	this hw will be GMA500 based	03:47
javispedro	and the question	03:47
javispedro	is	03:48
BCMM	and while i'm sure the free radeon drivers don't currently give amazing gaming performance, they give an incredibly responsive and artifact-free desktop effects experience	03:48
BCMM	and are really, really stable	03:48
BCMM	never had a crash from them	03:48
BCMM	in fact, since i got rid of propriatary atheros and nvidia drivers, i haven't had a single kernel panic	03:48
javispedro	Will there be a GMA500/SGX OSS driver from Intel with competitive performance against the ImgTech's one?	03:48
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javispedro	BCMM: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23592 (filed by me)	03:49
povbot	Bug 23592: was not found.	03:49
javispedro	etc. etc.	03:49
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javispedro	but I guess that anecdote != data :)	03:52
Venemo	:)	03:55
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Venemo	good night guys. it's late and I better get some sleep	03:56
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pupnik	Archos 7.0 has been off power mains for 4.25 hours - mostly idle. battery reads 100% still	03:57
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javispedro	wake me when you get a month's out of battery from idle	04:01
javispedro	like n800 ;)	04:01
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pupnik	nice	04:07
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SpeedEvil	javispedro: I've gotten results indicating 2 weeks is quite possible in suspend.	04:13
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SpeedEvil	maybe 3 with the phone off	04:14
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javispedro	more than one week with phone on would be surprising already	04:15
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SpeedEvil	For that, ylu've got to work out how to stop the phone sending signal status updates	04:18
SpeedEvil	It resumes from suspend just fine on calls and texts	04:18
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comawhite	i wonder if there is an app that will connect my wi-fi when im using it and disconnect when I'm not using it	04:27
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SpeedEvil	comawhite: with powersaving properly setup, it's no a big issue	04:36
SpeedEvil	comawhite: it will last >5 days idle with wifi on	04:37
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comawhite	O_O	04:40
comawhite	yeah because wifi is killing my battery -_-	04:40
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Loom	hi	05:03
luke-jr	NO	05:03
Loom	is there a utitility that can configure the startup services in maemo 5 ?	05:04
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pupnik	lol luke-jr	05:06
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Macer	i was working on switching from samba to cifs on my openindiana box today	05:09
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Macer	what a pain. got stupified by a damn pam module	05:09
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johnx	PAM is super fun	05:20
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Loom	is there a utitility that can configure the startup services in maemo 5 ?	05:30
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Loom	i found maemo-control-services but it's for os2008	05:50
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johnx	what service are you trying to disable?	05:52
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Loom	well i don' know	05:56
Loom	when i install i disable half of the services cuause they are useless	05:57
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Loom	but i am not familiar with this os	05:58
Loom	so need an app to present and be able to disable startup services	05:58
johnx	disabling services you don't understand is a great way to end up in a reboot loop	05:58
johnx	and as for the services that aren't strictly needed, there's likely instructions on how to disable them by hand	05:59
johnx	think of the requirement of doing it by hand as a way for the user to state "I really know what I'm doing"	05:59
SpeedEvil	Disabling random 'useless' shit will maek the platform stop working.	06:00
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SpeedEvil	Disabling tracker, for example, will break the camera and media player apps, for a start	06:00
johnx	so, I guess the good news out of this is: there's very few useless services :)	06:01
Loom	i know	06:02
SpeedEvil	basically, yes.	06:02
SpeedEvil	Or rather - sort-of.	06:02
Loom	so is there an app to do this ?	06:02
SpeedEvil	Tracker could be useless, if the other stuff diddn't rely on it heavily	06:02
SpeedEvil	vim	06:02
johnx	Loom, rm on the command line	06:02
Loom	hm	06:02
johnx	remove the symlinks in the runlevel directory you want the service to not start in	06:03
SpeedEvil	Look at dsmetool	06:03
SpeedEvil	look at /etc/*	06:03
SpeedEvil	understand how the processes are started	06:03
Loom	etc is prety big	06:03
SpeedEvil	work out how to do one-shot scripts that don't start it on one boot, and revert for the next boot, in case it doesn't work	06:03
SpeedEvil	yes	06:03
johnx	Loom, Well it's /etc/rc?.d/* for some services, and other places for other services	06:04
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Loom	i am trying to avoid the command line bullcrap...	06:07
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pupnik	lol	06:08
pupnik	just talk to the phone Loom	06:09
pupnik	maybe it will start to listen to you	06:09
Loom	i can just delete em using the filebox but since they are in varius places how do i find em ?	06:09
johnx	Loom, you don't even know which service you want to stop. that's the problem	06:10
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johnx	if you asked "How can I turn off BME and what are the consequences?" we'd be able to tell you something	06:10
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MohammadAG	morning	06:38
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Loom	yup just found 1 for ex in /etc/event.d	07:00
Loom	i had install netstory but it didn't work with 1.3 package	07:01
Loom	so i uninstalled it	07:01
Loom	but the script with the daenmon is still there	07:01
Loom	i beileve that maemo's uninstall is crap	07:02
Loom	and there is alot more services to go	07:03
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Termana	morning	07:07
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Pradeep	hi	09:06
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biston	good morning, is there any way to just ignore the pubkeys error and let aptitude update the repos silently?	09:47
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biston	i'm getting these errors day in day out... i have imported the keys from subkeys.pgp.net but it doesn't seem to fix the problem	09:48
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johnx	biston, I don't think Nokia signs the extras repository	09:50
johnx	it's some kind of weird policy decision	09:50
johnx	what happens if you add '--allow-untrusted'?	09:51
biston	to apt-get update ?	09:54
biston	let me try that	09:54
johnx	you said aptitude earlier :P	09:54
biston	ah	09:54
johnx	with apt-get it's something different	09:54
biston	alright, trying to update repos with aptitude update --allow-untrusted	09:55
johnx	err, wait, you just want the warning messages to go away?	09:56
biston	no just to go away, i want to properly update the repos ofc	09:56
johnx	they are updated correctly	09:57
biston	when i get an error like :	09:57
biston	W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3 Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG E40DC434616730BD maemo.org Extras repositories (Fremantle Extras) <repositories@maemo.org>	09:57
johnx	yes, they're updated correctly	09:57
biston	it still means that everything was updated?	09:57
biston	oh, alright, i did not know that	09:57
johnx	it's the difference between	09:57
johnx	'warning' and 'error'	09:57
biston	W:	09:57
biston	yup alright	09:57
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biston	thanks a lot johnx i got the answers/results i needed	09:59
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johnx	no problem :)	09:59
johnx	glad I could clear that up	09:59
biston	see ya	10:00
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ds3	having to tap to cancel a box on Android is so brain dead... wonder nokia patented the click outside to cancel thing	10:02
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johnx	they probably couldn't patent it. I've seen it on web pages for a while before maemo 5	10:03
ds3	wonder why Android choosed such a brain dead interface then... it is like everything there is modal	10:04
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johnx	it tends to be that way on such a small screen. I have to admit I wasn't super impressed with android's UI	10:06
johnx	actually, what I want to see more people imitating is palm's webOS	10:06
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ds3	don't think I could find a demo of the webOS gui to play with	10:07
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johnx	neither can I :\|	10:08
johnx	I actually got to play with someone's phone	10:08
ds3	ah	10:09
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* comawhite starting to wonder if making an irc client for n900 is really worth it		10:12
johnx	comawhite, not liking xchat?	10:12
comawhite	the screen it too small to really benefit from reading a channel especially if it moves really fast	10:12
comawhite	johnx, it's not native to the n900	10:13
johnx	well, it's not entirely 'hildonized' but I've got mine setup well enough	10:13
comawhite	plus I have to build mobility experience since programming jobs in Qt based jobs require mobility experience more and more now	10:13
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comawhite	plus my app will be better than xchat on the n900 anyways	10:14
comawhite	just wonder about the text size etc	10:14
johnx	well, in that case, I think there's a lot you can do to streamline the IRC experience to make it work better on a small screen	10:14
johnx	text size really, really needs to be selectable by the user :)	10:14
comawhite	it will be	10:14
johnx	problem solved, then :)	10:15
ds3	irc is not really suitable for the N900 from a power standpoint	10:15
comawhite	but you'll have to edit the style to do it, since it wll be supporting adium themes	10:15
comawhite	ds3, that also	10:15
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johnx	I can see what you mean :\|	10:16
talonz	i think the current client is great for an inbetween pc irc client	10:16
talonz	i use it alot coming home from work or at meetings that are boring the shit out of me lol	10:17
comawhite	talonz, play bullshit bingo	10:17
comawhite	:P	10:17
talonz	lol	10:18
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comawhite	talonz, well if you have a bouncer like I do, you'd have no trouble using it inbetween pc's	10:19
comawhite	I might have to figure something out for people who don't use a bouncer	10:20
johnx	in terms of the battery life thing, all I can think of is doing some kind of weird store and forward IRC 'proxy' that sits between the N900 and the IRC server	10:20
comawhite	but i could leave it up for end developers to make	10:20
johnx	bouncer is probably the word I was looking for :)	10:20
ds3	johnx: that stuff exists	10:20
comawhite	yeah I use a bouncer between my 2 pc's	10:20
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johnx	so the bouncer will build up a cache of messages and then push them down to the N900 every so often -or- when the user puts IRC in the foreground -or- someone mentions the user's name	10:22
johnx	is it something along those lines?	10:22
comawhite	if my client takes off, i can always get suggestions from end users to help make it much better	10:22
johnx	oh, I'm sure you'll get suggestions whether it takes off or not :>	10:23
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comawhite	johnx, basically what happens is, the messages are relayed to all the clients that are connected to the bouncer simultaneously.	10:23
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johnx	comawhite, which doesn't really solve the power problem at all in the case of the N900	10:23
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comawhite	yeah	10:25
comawhite	im trying to make it as minimalistic as possible so it doesn't use much cpu	10:25
johnx	that helps	10:26
comawhite	which cpu usage causes battery life to go down	10:26
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johnx	but keeping the network iface receiving all the time will be pretty bad as well	10:26
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comawhite	the only one thing I worry about is the who reply (so I can update user's hostmask, etc)	10:27
comawhite	johnx, well it's not like msn, aim, yahoo, etc. It's real time chat	10:27
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comawhite	how long does the battery last with xchat?	10:28
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johnx	yeah. I got that. but when it's in the background, a lot of people don't care unless they get mentioned, especially on a mobile device	10:28
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johnx	sounds like someone should do a test with xchat :)	10:28
comawhite	well if there is a way to tell if an application is in the background, I could disable quite a few things to make it not use much resources	10:29
johnx	I'm sure there is	10:29
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comawhite	i'll have to ask some Qt maemo developers in #qt-maemo and see what I can find out about it	10:30
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johnx	should be able to tell if the device is 'locked' as well	10:30
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comawhite	well I can limit who replies for only the current channel, that will minimise the list updates and just when the user changes channels it will update it	10:31
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zogg_	i played tap tap revenge 4 on iphone4, maemo sucks =)))	10:32
comawhite	maemo is awesome	10:32
comawhite	I want to test meego and nitroid out :P	10:32
comawhite	but not sure at how to go about it	10:32
zogg_	than do it	10:32
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comawhite	since im still getting used to the n900 (only had it for a day or so) :P	10:33
johnx	it'd be cool to do all the maemo-ish things when the user gets hilighted, basically have it behave just like the text message/IM app	10:33
comawhite	johnx, I will support notifications (like you get with sms) if Qt provides an api for it	10:34
gazu	how can I know if my emmc is broken?	10:34
gazu	I'm having flashinf problems	10:35
comawhite	what is emmc?	10:35
johnx	the 'embedded mmc' card, where /home and /opt live	10:36
comawhite	ah	10:36
johnx	it's a soldered-on SD card	10:36
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johnx	well, basically at least	10:36
johnx	anyways, 12:30. time for bed :)	10:37
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comawhite	goodnight johnsu01	10:38
comawhite	johnx, *	10:38
gazu	???	10:39
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:51
Jaffa	MohammadAG: pong	10:51
lardman	morning Jaffa	10:51
crashanddie	morning	10:52
Jaffa	khertan: Khweeteur 0.1.6-2 doesn't start for me: error imporitng khweeteur_experimental	10:52
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khertan	Jaffa, ? gnié ?	10:56
khertan	did you use experimental or "stable" ?	10:56
khertan	did both version are installed at the same time ?	10:56
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Jaffa	khertan: Err, khweeteur-experimental has same ver number? Anyway, it's not installed, just khweeteur. Not sure I've ever installed -experimental...	10:59
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khertan	yep same version number	11:00
khertan	can you see if /usr/lib/python/site-packages/khweeteur and /usr/lib/python/site-packages/khweeteur-experimental exists ?	11:01
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khertan	Jaffa, did you just update from old version (<0.1.5-2) ? In this case remove it, and reinstall it	11:02
Jaffa	khertan: yes.	11:02
khertan	i ve put a rm in the postremove script	11:02
khertan	and didn't realize that postrm is called after the update	11:03
Jaffa	khertan: hmm. maybe preinst or postinst better?	11:03
khertan	Jaffa, this is for removing residual file due to python compilation	11:03
lardman	praise be to santa, Python scripting callbacks work at last!	11:03
gazu	any idea how to check if emmc is broken?	11:04
Jaffa	khertan: doing it in postinst (as well) before compiling new ones would mean seamless upgrade wouldn't it?	11:04
khertan	yep but will let residual foile	11:04
Jaffa	khertan: re-installing...	11:05
khertan	file when you just remove it	11:05
comawhite	which is better gsm or cdma?	11:05
khertan	comawhite, wifi	11:05
Jaffa	khertan: do it in both. Not having the package upgradable is a bit of a blocker IMHO	11:05
comawhite	i thought gdm/cdma was only for talking and not for web	11:06
khertan	Jaffa, yep :) but i ll not do it again imho :)	11:06
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khertan	Jaffa, this was an error in a extras-devel package :)	11:06
Jaffa	khertan: ah, ok :)	11:06
Jaffa	khertan: no tweets shown, and no errors in console	11:06
khertan	Jaffa, i didn't want to push that in prod :)	11:06
khertan	Jaffa, authentified ?	11:07
khertan	Jaffa, after some update, i remove cache, as there is some changes in the cache format	11:07
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Jaffa	khertan: ah	11:08
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Jaffa	khertan: feature request: prompt for auth if neither identi.ca or twitter authenticated?	11:09
khertan	hum ... yep good feature request :)	11:09
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Jaffa	khertan: working now :)	11:12
khertan	:)	11:13
gazu	can I get some help?	11:13
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crashanddie	~ask	11:19
infobot	Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.	11:19
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khertan	Jaffa, about that ... i got many email from many users about the broken package in extras-devel	11:24
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khertan	Jaffa, it s look like everyone is using extras-devel	11:24
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lardman	lcuk: ping	11:37
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comawhite	finally managed to get tmobile's 3g to work on my phone, it was annoying	11:50
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lardman	what was the secret?	12:00
comawhite	lardman, well I have SimpleMobile, I forgot to set the apn to simple and remove the username and password	12:01
comawhite	xD	12:01
lardman	ah :)	12:02
comawhite	:)	12:03
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comawhite	now I have internet where I go, no more stuck only having sms/phone	12:04
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comawhite	now if only I can make the phone not go in to a hard lock after 5 seconds - 10 seconds	12:05
Shapeshifter	gahhhh!! some things are just utterly broken on the n900. I want to play some music from back home. I install sshfs to mount the share. /dev/fuse not allowed... I chmod 777 it out of rage, now mounting works, and the user can see the files, but the 'file browser' thing can't	12:05
comawhite	i don't mind going black, just like to tap on the screen to unlock instead of hitting the side buttons	12:05
Shapeshifter	and ofc the media player can't be used to just play files	12:05
Shapeshifter	>:(	12:05
lardman	Shapeshifter: it must be possible to tell it to play a specific file as it works with the filemanager	12:06
comawhite	Shapeshifter, see if you can install cifs on it	12:06
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Shapeshifter	cifs?? why would I do such a thing	12:06
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lardman	comawhite: you want to disable the screenlock? Why? What happens if it's in your pocket?	12:06
comawhite	then do mount /<server>/<path> <mount point> -o username=<username>,password=<password>	12:06
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comawhite	lardman, I have a case for that ;p	12:07
comawhite	it's on my belt ^^	12:07
lardman	ok	12:07
comawhite	pocket == easy wau for scratches	12:07
lardman	settings > display > lock screen automatically	12:08
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comawhite	lardman, thank you	12:08
Shapeshifter	lardman: not from the gui at least. I forgot the builtin player command. I heard mplayer does"'t go through pulse or something? hence it would play on the speakers and not earphones?	12:08
lardman	comawhite: np	12:08
* khertan just understand why hildon-desktop is so slow ... 4 desktop with four 21Mpixel image is a huge error :)		12:09
lardman	Shapeshifter: not sure about mplayer, but the media-player must have some method of playing a single file, perhaps a DBus call	12:09
lardman	lol @ khertan	12:09
Shapeshifter	well that's convenient....	12:09
comawhite	lardman, and to lock it just hit power button or that other button correct?	12:09
lardman	I guess so	12:10
lardman	I've never tried it tbh	12:10
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huee	Shapeshifter: maybe a symlink?	12:11
Shapeshifter	huee: the mountpoint is 777 and owned by user:users, so....	12:13
huee	Shapeshifter: what about changing gcon	12:13
huee	*gconf default file browser?	12:14
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Shapeshifter	huee: to what?	12:15
huee	Shapeshifter: gpe filemanager or whatever else?	12:16
Shapeshifter	mhh	12:16
Shapeshifter	well atm I'm just copying the album I want to listen to to MyDocs so I wont be needing it right now anymore. though really this is daft	12:17
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: (speaker not earphones) nice point. I think this switchng is done by PA/ohmd though, and should be mostly transparent to apps	12:17
DocScrutinizer	(<Shapeshifter> and ofc the media player can't be used to just play files) there's an extension plugin for mediaplayer to allow selecting files for playback	12:20
_trine	can the n900 only use .aac files for its ringtone ?	12:20
MohammadAG	nope, can use all, it converts them to .wav	12:20
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: will test later. I heard there's some problem. afaik, mplayer needs to be compiled for pulse or it needs to be run with a prefix wrapper	12:20
DocScrutinizer	what MohammadAG says	12:20
_trine	when I look at the profile I can only see .aac files	12:20
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MohammadAG	click other	12:21
_trine	ah ok	12:21
DocScrutinizer	mo moh	12:21
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: oh nice, will check that	12:21
MohammadAG	morning DocScrutinizer	12:22
RST38h	...Starting with a dual-core Cortex-A9 at 1GHz, the iOne adds in an extra ARM11 core at 533MHz dedicated to handling camera functions and ensuring ready times of under one second....	12:22
* RST38h hands out napkins		12:22
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: sorry I can't for the life of me not recall the name, it's too awkward	12:22
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: LOL	12:23
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crashanddie	How do I convert a QString into gchar?	12:23
DocScrutinizer	QString.toGchar()? just wild guessing :-D	12:24
MohammadAG	.toAscii()	12:24
crashanddie	MohammadAG, ascii or latin1?	12:24
MohammadAG	ascii	12:24
crashanddie	gchar * gstr = (gchar ) malloc(str->length() sizeof(gchar)); QChar * data = str->data(); while(!data->isNull()) *gstr++ = (data++)->toLatin1();	12:24
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DocScrutinizer	ouch	12:25
lardman	RST38h: is that dual arm?? core + an extra arm11?	12:25
MohammadAG	kinky	12:25
MohammadAG	The N8 can do less than a second shots o_O	12:26
crashanddie	MohammadAG, QString::toAscii returns a QByteArray	12:26
MohammadAG	really?	12:26
DocScrutinizer	which is a classic c style char[]	12:26
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, is it really? I'm cautious about assuming such things	12:27
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DocScrutinizer	I've read it yesterday in Qt docs	12:27
DocScrutinizer	check backscroll for the two URLs I posted yesterday	12:27
crashanddie	I believe thou	12:28
DocScrutinizer	don't do that	12:28
khertan	<MohammadAG> The N8 can do less than a second shots o_O <<< the n900 too	12:28
DocScrutinizer	!	12:28
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MohammadAG	khertan, not 12MP pics	12:28
crashanddie	Though, my lord, since whence do thy program, in Qtence?	12:28
khertan	MohammadAG, hum ... true :)	12:28
MohammadAG	:)	12:28
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: exactly	12:28
MohammadAG	plus, Xenon > LED	12:28
MohammadAG	except for a handy flashlight	12:29
khertan	MohammadAG, and with 12 Mpixel saving photo to slow sd will be slow :)	12:29
khertan	to be honest i ve try the iphone 4 camera	12:29
MohammadAG	True that	12:29
MohammadAG	It's crap :P	12:29
khertan	while in low light results are better than n900	12:30
MohammadAG	The N8's UI is smoother than the iPhone 4's	12:30
DocScrutinizer	and sensor with good low light properties always >>> xenon & LED	12:30
MohammadAG	khertan, the N900 is crap in lowlight	12:30
khertan	yep	12:30
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khertan	I didn't compare the 4G iphone cam which is nothing more than 5Mpx to a 8 or 12 Mpx with larger objectiv :)	12:31
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DocScrutinizer	ask speedevil about nonsense of 12Mpx with a sensor like you may find in a phone, and esp a lens the size found there	12:33
DocScrutinizer	a few years ago they sacled up 2Mpx optical to 10Mpx interpolated - obviously BS & nonsense. Nowadays the optics do the "interpolation" and they have "real" 10Mpx. The result is the same	12:35
DocScrutinizer	or even worse	12:36
RobbieThe1st_	Yea	12:37
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RobbieThe1st_	I'd like to see camera resolutions measured in "noiseless" MP - i.e. the equivalent MP you get once you downsample to remove the noise under certain light conditions.	12:38
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DocScrutinizer	or simply lines-H/V resolution	12:39
RobbieThe1st_	Yea, that'd work	12:39
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chx	lines-H/V resolution...?	12:47
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DocScrutinizer	the number of parallel black lines on white background either horizontal or vertical that can be resolved by the sensor	12:48
DocScrutinizer	usually < pixel/2	12:48
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_trine	it looks like my n900 does not see .m4r ringtones	13:05
_trine	is there something i can do	13:05
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alterego	Transcode them	13:06
alterego	wtf is m4r anyway? :D	13:06
piggz	is it possible to set up nokia messaging on the n900....when i try and create an account at email.nokia.com, i get asked to choose a phone and do it from the phone..but when i do it from the phone, it just creates an imap account	13:06
piggz	another q...is it possible to do a memory test on the n900, as im getting tempted to take it to a service centre because it reboots itself _a lot_ ... ive re-flashed inc mmc, and not installed anything from -testing or -devel, and it was ok for a few days, but has recently started rebooting again. ive turned off email atm to see if that helps	13:07
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_trine	alterego, m4r apparently is what iphone uses	13:10
alterego	lame	13:10
_trine	I have downloaded a whole pile of them off the net	13:10
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alterego	cough lame ...	13:12
alterego	:)	13:12
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DocScrutinizer	piggz: you shouldn't assume things, then ask how to properly tackle them. Rather ask for guidance how to tackle the root problem. Here: there are ways to find out why N900 reboots. And a mem test is largely useless as memory usually isn't failing in this way (except if device had been overclocked in the past). Also memory isn't same as storage.	13:18
alterego	Now to work out why my network server plugin stops location services from starting up :/	13:18
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Scorcerer	is it possible to use multiple booting images from N900 to boot a PC using n900 as a usb-drive?	13:20
piggz	DocScrutinizer: ok, how can i find out why it reboots (btw, im a programmer and an well aware of the differences between ram and storage ;) ... the n900 doesnt keep a /var/log/messages, as i was hoping to find somethin useful there	13:20
* ShadowJK shakes head at fennec 4 beta release notes page not working in MicroB		13:20
Scorcerer	i mean, without having to erase each image and copy new to microsd card ?	13:20
alterego	Scorcerer: maybe, look at how usb mass storage mode works.	13:21
DocScrutinizer	piggz: for syslog install sysklogd package	13:21
gazu	no media player and camera after flashing	13:21
gazu	any idea??	13:21
DocScrutinizer	will create a /var/log/syslog	13:21
piggz	cheers	13:21
ShadowJK	piggz: /var/lib/dsme/stats contain some stuff. /proc/bootreason tells you why it powered on. /dev/mtd2 is a circular buffer recording kernel OOPS	13:22
piggz	cool	13:22
DocScrutinizer	piggz: see? :-D	13:22
piggz	so, my bootreason is software reset	13:23
DocScrutinizer	this sounds like ntentional reboot	13:23
ShadowJK	/var/lib/dsme/stats is next stop then	13:24
DocScrutinizer	or dsme getting upset about one of it's monitored processes respawning (too often)	13:24
ShadowJK	lifeguard_resets iirc	13:24
piggz	lifeguard-restarts says	13:24
piggz	hildon-home: 1	13:25
DocScrutinizer	piggz: which system rev?	13:25
piggz	DocScrutinizer: 1.3	13:25
piggz	camera-ui: 6	13:25
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piggz	ohm-session-agent: 1	13:25
piggz	sapwood-server: 1	13:25
ShadowJK	-restarts is just restart of a single process, not system restart	13:25
piggz	resets has a line containg Xorg cmdline	13:26
ShadowJK	I think sw-rst also happens when kernel itself decides to reboot, which it does on oops, in which case /dev/mtd2 has it (and older ones)	13:27
piggz	how do i get a '>' char to output to a file?	13:28
piggz	found it :)	13:29
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piggz	ShadowJK: DocScrutinizer: so, i guess my kernel is panicing http://pastebin.ca/2027101	13:33
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: these instructions need to go to a wiki page :-)	13:33
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DocScrutinizer	a bit terse	13:34
DocScrutinizer	i.e. no register dump, no stack traceback, nothing	13:34
DocScrutinizer	not useful	13:35
piggz	http://pastebin.ca/2027104	13:35
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piggz	DocScrutinizer: mos in that one	13:35
piggz	s/more	13:35
DocScrutinizer	EEEW >>Unable to handle kernel paging request	13:36
* ShadowJK sometimes gets backtrace		13:36
crashanddie	anyone familiar with the deal between MafwPlaylist and MafwProxyPlaylist?	13:36
piggz	DocScrutinizer: so, its bad ok...ideas? :)	13:37
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DocScrutinizer	not yet. Sounds like a real BUG	13:37
DocScrutinizer	or even hw broken?	13:37
ShadowJK	I missed the start, does it "randomly" crash, or when you do a specific thing?	13:37
piggz	ShadowJK: randomly	13:38
ShadowJK	:/	13:38
DocScrutinizer	swap corrupt?	13:38
piggz	if the swap is on the emmc, i flashed that a few days ago	13:38
DocScrutinizer	only way to find out: get even more of that OOPS from mtd2, then look at kernel sources to find out what's causing it	13:39
piggz	DocScrutinizer: there are more oopses in the file above....the file itself is too big to pastebin	13:39
piggz	http://pastebin.ca/2027110 .... i presume this one is my massive uptime of 44 seconds from early this morning!	13:41
Choom	you only last 44 seconds?	13:42
piggz	Choom: no, that was a one off, its usually longer than that :)	13:42
Jaffa	khertan: I'm not, but tried Khweeteur from there when you said something recently.	13:43
Jaffa	khertan: Fools on TMO do not most users make	13:43
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piggz	DocScrutinizer: ShadowJK: www.piggz.co.uk/mtd2 is all the oops (256k)	13:46
piggz	any help is greatly appreciated	13:47
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DocScrutinizer	chx: ( <chx> lines-H/V resolution...? ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_star and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_resolution#Measuring_optical_resolution	13:48
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DocScrutinizer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EIA_Resolution_Chart_1956.svg	13:50
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/advisory/2488013.mspx X-P	13:58
DocScrutinizer	(vuln in MSIE)	13:58
DocScrutinizer	sorry, quite OT	13:59
ShadowJK	piggz: from those earlier pastes only thing I could think of was swapspace or the emmc itself being broken :/	14:04
piggz	ShadowJK: how to check swapspace? do you think the messages will help a service centre?	14:05
ShadowJK	I doubt it	14:06
piggz	ShadowJK: the other day /home got remounted ro ( i noticed after i coudnt get any mail)	14:06
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ShadowJK	it does sound alot like a hw problem though	14:07
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piggz	ok, i guess i will take it for repair	14:07
ShadowJK	it's painful. My own N900 needs to go in for repair too :(	14:07
ShadowJK	painful to be without it for 2 weeks I mean	14:08
piggz	i will be left with my wifes old sony ericsson :(	14:08
piggz	;)	14:08
RST38h	Poor guy...	14:08
RST38h	But imagine if you had to use Motorola RAZR in the meanwhile!	14:08
piggz	has https://publish.ovi.com/content_items/new been returning error 500 for some time? i was going to try and post an app for n900	14:09
piggz	ShadowJK: what is wrong with your phone?	14:09
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jacekowski	ShadowJK: usb port?	14:11
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ShadowJK	No the cellular modem part has probably desoldered itself	14:18
DocScrutinizer-8	ohohohowow	14:19
ShadowJK	I had issues earlier, sent it to nokia, they did nothing, but I noticed it was mostly fine using the thinnest and most convex shaped battery I had	14:19
DocScrutinizer-8	errr what?	14:20
ShadowJK	now it's so bad that doing ctrl-backspace can cause modem to reset	14:20
ShadowJK	or closing slider	14:22
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ShadowJK	or having the phone in my pocket	14:22
* ShadowJK goes for some last minute christmas shopping		14:22
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DocScrutinizer	cough	14:22
DocScrutinizer	should do that as well	14:23
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alterego	Heh, I think I've got one thing I need to get	14:24
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MohammadAG	alterego, aww, don't feel sad	14:25
* MohammadAG hands alterego a segfault		14:26
MohammadAG	there you go :)	14:26
alterego	If only it were a segfault :P	14:27
alterego	I've narrowed down my issue, this time, to my network service plugin.	14:27
alterego	When it's absent it works, when it's there it doesn't.	14:28
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alterego	This is where I need someone with serious debugging skills :)	14:36
lcuk	alterego, throw some massive printfs in there	14:38
lcuk	you know you have enough when it slows down your network when using ssh ;)	14:39
* lcuk once debugged every single graphical operation as it was rendered		14:39
Choom	must have been a lot of spam	14:39
lcuk	over 10000 lines of debug per rendering stage	14:39
alterego	lcuk: already is	14:39
alterego	lcuk: nothing appears to be going wrong.	14:39
alterego	But location services aren't started, I remove the network plugin and location services start fine.	14:40
lcuk	then you are missing the area	14:40
alterego	I suspect some linking problem.	14:40
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alterego	lcuk: the other point is, the plugin isn't even doing anything, it just gets loaded.	14:43
lcuk	"just" ;)	14:44
lcuk	what chance that inside your plugin you are replacing a system function	14:44
lcuk	that then means you are not calling official function but rather your replacement to do some critical step in the protocol	14:44
alterego	Yes, that's the kind of thing I was thinking.	14:45
alterego	otoh, a plugin is a set of classes..	14:46
alterego	So I would have thought that'd be pretty hard.	14:46
* alterego looks at readelf and feels slighhtly christmassy		14:48
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lcuk	lol	14:49
alterego	readelf is binutils isn't it?	14:49
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alterego	lcuk: you any good at this kind of thing? :)	14:58
alterego	I don't see anything untoward in the symbol table.	14:58
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alterego	I'm gonna write a minimal test case ..	15:04
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Do you know if it's a known bug that "raw" links in garage git don't work? https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob;f=package/po/hermes.pot;hb=HEAD - click 'raw' and you get an empty page with the standard header/footer rather than the resource itself.	15:15
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alterego	lcuk: well, I can load location services and my plugin in a test app ::/	15:17
alterego	Though not now ..	15:17
alterego	Hrm ..	15:17
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alterego	So, it looks like the order of loading a plugin before starting location services breaks it.	15:22
alterego	s/a/the/	15:22
infobot	alterego meant: So, it looks like the order of lotheding a plugin before starting location services breaks it.	15:22
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DocScrutinizer	order of loading indicates it's actually redefining symbols	15:59
DocScrutinizer	err lotheding	15:59
alterego	That's what I was thinking.	16:02
alterego	Heh	16:03
alterego	Well, my plugins depend on some of the same shared libs.	16:03
alterego	But that should be fine.	16:03
* alterego sighs, I'll have a look into it later.		16:03
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DocScrutinizer	what's the UID (not EUID) in postinstall scripts when called by HAM? is this user or root?	16:37
MohammadAG	~seen _nicolai	16:37
infobot	MohammadAG: i haven't seen '_nicolai'	16:37
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DocScrutinizer	or let me put it this way: how to decide what's the "standard" user that owns the GUI? It might eventually change from user "user" to arbitrary different user name	16:39
DocScrutinizer	or maybe that way: how's optification dealing with ~user/MyDocs? There might be nor /home/user/MyDocs but instead a /home/joerg/MyDocs	16:40
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DocScrutinizer	system global generic setups (like pathes to cache etc) MUST NOT rely on arbitrary random user account details, like name of $HOME	16:42
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DocScrutinizer	~2119	16:42
infobot	The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.	16:42
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DocScrutinizer	suggested fix: bindmount MyDocs to /MyDocs-generic	16:43
DocScrutinizer	use this path only, for ~optification	16:44
DocScrutinizer	even other way round: mount to /MyDocs-generic, bindmount to $HOME/MyDocs	16:45
timeless_mbp	hrm	16:45
timeless_mbp	anyone here ever used Nokia Messaging?	16:45
* timeless_mbp is scared		16:45
DocScrutinizer	of Nokia Messaging? hehe, me too	16:46
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: IIRC you got a better knowledge about the guts of optification. Any comments about above elaborated topic?	16:47
lardman	can anyone recommend an easy Linux app to make a small png image, something like Paint.net	16:47
DocScrutinizer	make?	16:47
crashanddie	lardman, I usually use some online flash-based image editor	16:48
* timeless_mbp cries		16:48
timeless_mbp	so, i got this n900 from the localization testing team	16:48
timeless_mbp	it's really scaring me	16:49
DocScrutinizer	LOL	16:49
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timeless_mbp	i'll post pictures once i figure out how to get them off this n900	16:53
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DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: Ass Rage mode should work, even with arabic or cyrillic directory names	16:57
DocScrutinizer	ctl-sh-p also works on most kbd layouts	16:58
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly if location of 'p' key in western layouts will also trigger screenshots - when pressed together with shift + ctl - on really exotic layouts that may have 'p' on other location or no 'p' key at all		17:00
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timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/nokmes/Screenshot-20090101-082953.png	17:01
timeless_mbp	"Disable sync when Never"	17:01
timeless_mbp	that sounds great	17:01
timeless_mbp	oh, for the curious, if you select "Disable sync when Battery at 15%", it's perfectly legal for it to start syncing again at 14% :)	17:01
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timeless_mbp	...	17:02
DocScrutinizer	:shudder:	17:02
timeless_mbp	anyway, i encourage people to browse through that picture set	17:02
timeless_mbp	it's ... impressive	17:02
timeless_mbp	oh, as you may notice, most nokia messaging dialogs are system modal	17:02
timeless_mbp	especially the "you didn't store you password, so i'm going to constantly bother you" dialog,	17:03
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: WTF are you working on? Me Ego is breaking...	17:03
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: i was given an n900 (CE) to replace my dead n900	17:03
timeless_mbp	before i cleaned it out, i looked to see what it had	17:04
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timeless_mbp	it had nokia messaging w/ two accounts, plus skype and some other stuff	17:04
timeless_mbp	which makes it possible for me to review things	17:04
DocScrutinizer	oh, so that's random unsorted app crap	17:04
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timeless_mbp	this isn't "work"	17:04
timeless_mbp	well, i think almost all of the pictures in that dir are from nokia messaging	17:05
timeless_mbp	actually, it has two skype accounts :o	17:06
DocScrutinizer	nokmes is nice. Though nokmess would fit even better?	17:06
timeless_mbp	i can rename	17:06
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timeless_mbp	ok, renamed	17:07
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DocScrutinizer	heh :-D	17:08
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rcg	hmmz.. seems like i borked my package: http://maemo.org/packages/view/binaryclock-plugin	17:11
rcg	any hint on how to recover from this situation?	17:12
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rcg	i think it was caused because i accidentally had a description field as follows: http://pastebin.com/mr7HyB1Y	17:14
rcg	not the '.' in front of the description text	17:14
rcg	*note	17:14
rcg	now, even with a fixed description it is not picking it up	17:15
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petteri	seems that the twitter app Khweeteur got extras with broken dependencies	17:17
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user	hey all.. someone knows about using bluefish on n900..couldn't find recen discussions about it	17:18
lardman	~lart Ubuntu's apt-get for getting stuck doing God only knows what	17:20
* infobot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps Ubuntu's apt-get for getting stuck doing God only knows what		17:20
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user	hey all.. someone knows about using bluefish on n900..couldn't find recen discussions about it	17:22
lardman	anyone know how I can purge a package from the package cache, I reckon it's broken which is making apt-get unhappy?	17:22
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smhar	is there any update regarding a decent email client for N900?	17:25
pauly	hi	17:26
timeless_mbp	mail.google.com/mail/h and mail.google.com/mail/x :)	17:26
pauly	im trying to use transmission in easy debian for n900 but i dont think it can get access to the internet. any ideas?	17:27
alterego	Why not use transmission for maemo?	17:28
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kerio	why are you using a bittorrent client on a device with short battery life and small ram?	17:29
SpeedEvil	bittorrent will drain the battery in ~2-3 hours over 3g	17:29
khertan	Youpla ... Khweeteur ... dependencies missing !	17:29
khertan	thx maemo package web promoter	17:30
khertan	hum no xface	17:30
khertan	xfade	17:30
DocScrutinizer	rcg: picking up descriptions takes quite a while, for some webpages	17:30
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smhar	timeless_mbp, I meant an offline POP3 email	17:31
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pauly	i like to use it cause its fun	17:31
DocScrutinizer	lardman: wasn't there some clean and purge options to apt-get?	17:33
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rcg	DocScrutinizer: i see.. i'll be more patient, thanks	17:34
MohammadAG	hmm, how do I play audio only with mplayer?	17:35
khertan	Someone here have admin right on the extras repository ?	17:36
* khertan is thinking of doing his own application installer which will use python setup tool to install his apps ...		17:37
MohammadAG	X-Fade	17:37
MohammadAG	why?	17:37
MohammadAG	it's like having debs and rpms on one system	17:37
DocScrutinizer	lardman: apt-get clean; # I guess	17:37
MohammadAG	that removes packages from cache DocScrutinizer	17:38
MohammadAG	i.e rm -rf /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb	17:38
DocScrutinizer	wasn't that exactly what lardman asked for?	17:38
MohammadAG	I have no idea what he asked for :P	17:38
DocScrutinizer	[2010-12-23 16:22:13] <lardman> anyone know how I can purge a package from the package cache, I reckon it's broken which is making apt-get unhappy?	17:39
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MohammadAG	Hmm, this only clears temp	17:39
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: enough suspense now! Tell us how to do it right :-D	17:41
MohammadAG	dpkg --configure -a should tell it to stfu and work	17:41
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DocScrutinizer	how's dpkg going to make apt-get happy again?	17:42
MohammadAG	apt is a frontend for dpkg :P	17:43
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DocScrutinizer	so is dpkg --configure -a going to clean up /var/cache/apt/archives/* ?	17:44
DocScrutinizer	and will remove a possibly borked file there?	17:44
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khertan	MohammadAG, deb or rpm can be good as they can ... but if the repository is crappy ... deb or rpm format will not help	17:49
khertan	MohammadAG, package promoter to extras didn't promote some dependencies	17:49
khertan	:)	17:49
MohammadAG	what section are they in?	17:50
khertan	don't know ...	17:50
khertan	it s a dependencies of a apps	17:50
khertan	so should be promoted too	17:50
MohammadAG	well, if they're in user/, they shouldn't, no	17:50
khertan	MohammadAG, for a liB ?	17:51
khertan	this is stupid	17:51
khertan	how did you promote a lib so ?	17:51
khertan	as it should promote dependencies too	17:51
MohammadAG	shouldn't be in user/	17:51
MohammadAG	user/* even	17:51
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khertan	what the purpose of the test if your tests didn't use the same libs ?	17:51
khertan	stupid again	17:52
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khertan	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python-setuptools/0.6c9-1maemo2/	17:52
DocScrutinizer	user/ ??	17:52
DocScrutinizer	aaah HAM categories	17:52
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khertan	pfff	17:52
khertan	i already regrets coming back to maemo extras repository	17:53
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DocScrutinizer	khertan: everybody does :-D	17:53
MohammadAG	when is xmas exactly over?	17:53
DocScrutinizer	27.12.?	17:54
MohammadAG	I know it's one night, but how long do people keep saying merry xmas and all?	17:54
SpeedEvil	Dec 24.	17:54
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DocScrutinizer	it's actually night of 24.->25. and the whole 25. and 26.	17:54
MohammadAG	is that 24 or 27? :P	17:54
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DocScrutinizer	so 27.12. is a "normal day"	17:55
OEXPL	I can't find python3 for maemo. Should I compile it myself or does anybody knows where it is downloadable? I can only find 2.X.	17:55
MohammadAG	cause only 2.x is available :P	17:56
OEXPL	damn xD	17:56
jacekowski	python sucks	17:56
OEXPL	yeah whatever jacekowski	17:56
jacekowski	and version 3 sucks as much as version 2	17:56
OEXPL	I don't care.	17:56
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pauly	anyone using the openjdk jre?	18:02
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OEXPL	I can't understand why there isn't a package for python3 :/	18:03
jacekowski	nobody made it	18:03
jacekowski	nobody cares	18:03
jacekowski	there is nothing new in that braindead something	18:03
OEXPL	I usually will hack my Qt programs in C++ for n900, but python would be good for some fast things, and I learned just 3.0, because 2.X will sooner or later die...	18:04
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jacekowski	python and fast in same sentence?	18:04
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khertan	<jacekowski> python sucks < lol	18:05
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khertan	<jacekowski> python and fast in same sentence? << exactly	18:05
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OEXPL	jacekowski, fast means = make some tools fast, not reletated to performance, anyway, keep trolling.	18:08
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khertan	jacekowski, ah .... you are the guy which make unlocked fm transmitter frequency app which didn't work ...	18:11
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pupnik	anybody still have gitorious.org's IP address?	18:24
MohammadAG	#gitorious?	18:25
MohammadAG	<bjwebb> http://87.238.52.168/ works	18:25
MohammadAG	pupnik, ^	18:25
pupnik	tytyty	18:25
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MohammadAG	yw^3	18:26
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zogg_	odf is russian national standart now =) oh yeah!!! ftw	18:30
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lardman	hmm, seemingly wasn't a broken package, I manually deleted it and it downloaded again, same size, and has now been unpacking for ~1hr	18:31
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khertan	DNS service for this domain has expired with DNS Made Easy	18:34
khertan	mouarf	18:34
jacekowski	khertan: it does work	18:34
khertan	jacekowski, doesn't for me	18:34
MohammadAG	worksforme	18:34
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jacekowski	khertan: works for everybody	18:35
jacekowski	khertan: what is the problem?	18:35
khertan	nope i ve an other case :)	18:35
jacekowski	khertan: just no fmtxd at all?	18:35
khertan	;)	18:35
khertan	exactly	18:35
jacekowski	well, then you are doing it worn	18:35
jacekowski	wrong	18:35
jacekowski	you have to download it	18:35
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jacekowski	and then change chmods	18:35
Laurentos	maemo	18:35
khertan	and on the other n900 didn't see any more frequencies	18:35
jacekowski	Laurentos: we say hello	18:35
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MohammadAG	lol jacekowski	18:36
Laurentos	maemo	18:36
khertan	but to be honest i didn't care ... just trolling you as you re trolling on python :)	18:36
jacekowski	khertan: follow that instruction step by step	18:36
jacekowski	khertan: people even made videos of it working	18:36
Laurentos	maemo	18:36
jacekowski	Laurentos: stop repeating youself	18:36
khertan	Laurentos, meego ?	18:36
jacekowski	Laurentos: and state your intentions	18:36
jacekowski	Laurentos: or we will open fire	18:37
Laurentos	but it's a correct word	18:37
MohammadAG	jacekowski, he's a bot	18:37
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MohammadAG	seen one before	18:37
MohammadAG	now it'll start calling me an idiot	18:37
Laurentos	mohammadag, go back to mekka	18:37
MohammadAG	yep	18:37
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MohammadAG	same bot that was here 2 months ago	18:37
jacekowski	MohammadAG: btw. i never asked you that	18:37
jacekowski	MohammadAG: are you a muslim or not?	18:37
Laurentos	is mekka the synonym for idiot for you, mohammad? interesting	18:37
MohammadAG	Doesn't my nick give it away jacekowski? :P	18:37
jacekowski	well, not really	18:38
MohammadAG	Laurentos, please fuck off, thank you :)	18:38
jacekowski	and you pray every day at 12:00?	18:38
jacekowski	and believe in 72 virgins	18:38
jacekowski	and stuff?	18:38
Laurentos	mohammadAG sucks	18:38
MohammadAG	no, not exactly the most religous person	18:38
MohammadAG	72 virgins wtf?	18:38
Laurentos	mohammadag is a moron	18:38
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, we have a fag	18:38
jacekowski	MohammadAG: after dead	18:38
Laurentos	mohammadag is a moron	18:38
jacekowski	death*	18:38
Laurentos	mohammadag is a moron	18:38
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, never heard of that	18:39
MohammadAG	xD	18:39
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jacekowski	Laurentos: MohammadAG wtf?	18:39
jacekowski	MohammadAG: wtf?	18:39
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jacekowski	MohammadAG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri	18:39
jacekowski	MohammadAG: The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Qur'an 55:72, it is stated that:	18:39
pupnik	what's your fucking problem, asswipe	18:39
pupnik	jacekowski:	18:39
jacekowski	pupnik: it's not a problem	18:40
jacekowski	pupnik: i'm just asking	18:40
pupnik	ok	18:40
DocScrutinizer51	what's up? play nice, kids!	18:40
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, bot, it was killed	18:40
MohammadAG	jacekowski, reads	18:40
DocScrutinizer	ummm	18:40
jacekowski	lot of people here believe that muslims are people that blow themselves up and beat their wives	18:40
pupnik	i believe that synergy client still doesn't auto-unhide the cursor on tablets, correct?	18:41
rysiek\|pl	yeah, the "scary terrists"	18:41
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: beat their wives, and then blow themselves up.	18:41
DocScrutinizer	who killed it?	18:41
MohammadAG	jacekowski, I don't recall that being 72	18:41
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: The other way round is harder	18:41
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, Chuck norris, err, freenode staff	18:42
DocScrutinizer	k, so no action needed	18:42
MohammadAG	jacekowski, not exactly true lol	18:42
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, both sides have extermists	18:43
MohammadAG	Americans have suicide people who open fire in malls and crap	18:43
rysiek\|pl	MohammadAG: +1 on that	18:43
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: were you able to trace it down to a particular region or user?	18:43
pupnik	i'm surprised there aren't more funny games about that	18:43
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, hmm?	18:44
DocScrutinizer	the bot	18:44
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MohammadAG	* Laurentos (~Laurentos@84-75-180-79.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #maemo	18:44
rysiek\|pl	and running around shouting "OMG ISLAMIST EXTREMISTS WILL KILL US" doesn't help, crates an atmosphere of fright	18:44
* pupnik isn't scared of anybody		18:45
rysiek\|pl	which in turn causes people to treat alleged "terrists" badly (i.e. additional checks at airports)	18:45
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MohammadAG	rysiek\|pl, you don't have to tell me about that	18:45
* MohammadAG missed the MeeGo conference cause of visa issues		18:45
DocScrutinizer	a schweizer :-P	18:45
rysiek\|pl	which leads to people getting pissed off	18:46
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rysiek\|pl	and there is no moment to make somebody do something stupid (i.e. blow himself up) when they're pissed	18:46
MohammadAG	o/ javispedro	18:46
javispedro	hello	18:46
rysiek\|pl	*no better moment	18:46
javispedro	a friendly warning: skype will consume your battery today	18:46
MohammadAG	An explanation for that warning; servers are fucked	18:47
javispedro	yep	18:47
DocScrutinizer	and btw "blow their wives and beat themselves up"	18:47
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jacekowski	javispedro: we know that	18:47
MohammadAG	An example for the warning: 2 batteries gone in 3 hours	18:47
MohammadAG	btw	18:47
khertan	Friendly advice : stop trying to push to gitorious.org server	18:47
MohammadAG	when a battery gets enormously huge	18:47
rysiek\|pl	DocScrutinizer: have I had a wife I wouldn't probably want to beat myself up after blowing my wife...	18:47
MohammadAG	should I blow it up? :P	18:47
* javispedro search irc logs		18:48
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khertan	seems they forgot to renew dns	18:48
javispedro	*searched	18:48
rysiek\|pl	khertan: ERROR ID 10T	18:48
rysiek\|pl	-_-'	18:48
MohammadAG	this thing doesn't allow the cover to close	18:48
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, any advice on this?	18:48
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DocScrutinizer	err what?	18:48
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, my battery's "swollen"	18:48
DocScrutinizer	ABANDON AREA! DUCK AND COVER!	18:49
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: replace it	18:49
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: you may be able to get it replaced.	18:49
rysiek\|pl	ACTIVATE RESTON5	18:49
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: as it shouldn't do that.	18:49
MohammadAG	and if I don't?	18:49
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: risks popping	18:49
MohammadAG	Would it implode/explode/eat people	18:49
MohammadAG	popping?	18:49
* MohammadAG expected explosions and stuff		18:49
rysiek\|pl	snap crackle and pop	18:50
SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU	18:50
SpeedEvil	that	18:50
rysiek\|pl	MohammadAG: and you say you're not a "terrist"	18:50
MohammadAG	rysiek\|pl, I terrorise mobiles	18:50
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DocScrutinizer	mhm, my daily mbarcode update :-D	18:51
rysiek\|pl	MohammadAG: as long as you're not mobilising terrorists, I'm cool	18:51
MohammadAG	rysiek\|pl, I do that quite well, in CoD	18:51
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, that's called a "pop"?	18:52
rysiek\|pl	MohammadAG: don't try it IRL/AFK, or you'll get a visit from DoD ;)	18:52
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MohammadAG	If that's a pop	18:53
MohammadAG	what do sites mean when a battery explodes?	18:53
MohammadAG	I wonder how that would go when we get nuclear batteries	18:53
MohammadAG	gets pissed, removes battery cover, tears off pins, throws battery	18:54
Jaffa	"Kaboom. There was supposed to be a kaboom"	18:54
MohammadAG	oh hey Jaffa :)	18:54
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khertan	Jaffa, any admin access to maemo repository ?	19:01
khertan	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/khweeteur/0.0.52-1/	19:02
khertan	have broken dependencies in extras :)	19:02
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: If you don't actually stab them, the result tends to be a lot more modest	19:02
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: fire can still result, though is not as likely	19:02
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you you managed to get that pregnant battery?	19:05
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kerio	dude, you should always use a condom	19:24
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dneary	All done with maemo paid work...	19:28
dneary	It'll be interesting to see if anyone notices in January ;)	19:28
* MohammadAG will :P		19:29
MohammadAG	kerio, I was out	19:29
MohammadAG	<MohammadAG> lcuk, this is one f***ing nice concept :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlcfB9ZPmJw	19:30
MohammadAG	<MohammadAG> basically, pause the video, let it load, then play it, and use the numbers in the video	19:30
MohammadAG	<MohammadAG> read the comments, people came up with nice notes :D	19:30
kerio	OH SHIT THAT'S AWESOME	19:32
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MohammadAG	play star wars, it's in the comments	19:33
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rysiek\|pl	that. is. awesome.	19:35
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xim_	is it possible to extract sms messages off my n900 in a way they can be read on a pc?	19:37
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xim_	so i read that its stored in an sqlite database, which it turns out i am comfortable using, any idea where the file with the database in it is stored?	19:42
khertan	oh god downloading n900 image 2Ko/s	19:42
khertan	ouch	19:42
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khertan	there isn't any 64b flasher ?	19:43
MohammadAG	khertan, linux?	19:47
khertan	yep	19:47
MohammadAG	debian?	19:47
MohammadAG	--force-architecture when installing it	19:48
khertan	yep	19:48
khertan	but this mean also 32bit libs :)	19:48
MohammadAG	you need ia32-libs	19:48
MohammadAG	yes	19:48
khertan	which i didn't on the pc i m currently	19:48
khertan	:)	19:48
khertan	which i didn't install on the pc i m currently	19:48
khertan	due to insecurity of this thing :)	19:48
MohammadAG	heh	19:49
MohammadAG	alterego, did you give vsync drivers a shot on MeeGo?	19:49
khertan	but hum ... will use an other machine so :)	19:49
MohammadAG	crap, flashed the kernel instead of loading it temporarly	19:49
MohammadAG	temporarily even	19:49
khertan	:)	19:50
MohammadAG	meego's actually very usable with it	19:50
MohammadAG	cept for some minor major stuff, like no phone daemon running :)	19:50
khertan	i will not call this minor	19:51
khertan	:)	19:51
MohammadAG	as I said, minor major :P	19:51
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khertan	this other major seems have been fixed recently : pyside :)	19:51
khertan	ok not major for everyone :)	19:51
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lardman	is it possible to remove an item from the updates list?	20:05
lardman	in HAM	20:05
lardman	i.e. ignore it	20:05
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lardman	I'd like to ignore the kernel-power v46 update as it removes the ability to boot Meego, and am getting bored of having to click each package one by one to update them	20:07
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MohammadAG	lardman, update to kernel-power 46	20:11
MohammadAG	then install my package, uboot-power	20:11
MohammadAG	it's based on v46	20:11
lardman	that works ok then?	20:11
MohammadAG	yep, ask DocScrutinizer :)	20:12
lardman	I couldn't quite work out whether it would do what it said in the package description, so I steered clear	20:12
MohammadAG	it bites heads off :P	20:12
DocScrutinizer	uboot-power46 comes with pk, at least I never installed pk prior to or after it	20:12
lardman	ok	20:12
MohammadAG	just make sure you have the latest kp modules	20:13
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MohammadAG	i.e update kernel-power	20:13
lardman	MohammadAG: has the new media player dropped files? I only see 3 source files + 3 headers + 3 ui files	20:13
DocScrutinizer	just installed uboot-p46 and h-e-n. everything fine :-D	20:13
MohammadAG	lardman, I don't recall it did :P	20:13
lardman	ah 4 source + headers	20:13
lardman	iirc it had more, perhaps I'm going mad	20:14
MohammadAG	http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/trees/master	20:14
MohammadAG	no, it's more	20:14
MohammadAG	have a look at http://gitorious.org/~slauwers/qt-mediaplayer/slauwers-foss-mediaplayer	20:14
MohammadAG	I need to figure out how to process merge requests	20:14
lardman	I need to work out how to git pull	20:15
lcuk	lardman, "git clone http://git.gitorious.org/~slauwers/qt-mediaplayer/slauwers-foss-mediaplayer.git"	20:16
lardman	which one is the active one?	20:16
lardman	lcuk: ah, I was meaning to ask you to point me towards your postinst scripts	20:16
Jaffa	khertan: nope. best is to raise an urgent bug	20:17
lardman	I've sorted the decoding and python plugin issues, so am pretty much ready to shoot for Extras proper	20:17
lcuk	lardman, preinst	20:17
lardman	well either way ;)	20:17
lardman	amazing how much work one can do by stringing together more than an hour at a time when you're tired in the evening!	20:18
lcuk	https://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/master/debian/libliqbase1.preinst#L7	20:18
lardman	thanks	20:18
lcuk	and its possible to find issues, if noticed then let me know	20:18
lardman	will do	20:19
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lardman	it's only taken me 2 years, but now I can get on with the app that I wanted to write using barcode scanning (via mBarcode)	20:21
lardman	all good :)	20:21
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lardman	hmm, what's up with the extra telepathy plugins	20:25
lardman	ah, extras-devel probably	20:25
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lardman	MohammadAG: the only thing HAM shows me with uboot in the name is uboot-pr13	20:27
lardman	apt-get job I guess?	20:28
MohammadAG	Hmm, I put it in the same section I think	20:29
MohammadAG	lardman, http://maemo.org/packages/view/uboot-power/	20:29
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lardman	I had a repo update error, so that may be it	20:30
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lardman	MohammadAG: installed via apt-get and works fine, thanks :)	20:32
lardman	so in retrospect, not sure what was wrong with HAM there	20:32
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esaym153	anyone wanting to sell me a cheap n900?	20:40
SpeedEvil	I want to sell the world cheap n900s.	20:41
SpeedEvil	Ic an't - but I want to.	20:41
Noma	i want to sell you a expensive n900	20:41
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esaym153	Noma: I might be interested	20:43
steinex	esaym153: germany?	20:43
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esaym153	USA	20:43
steinex	kk, then i'm out	20:43
Noma	i'm in finland so i think it really might be expensive for you	20:43
steinex	i could sell you a vodafone.de-locked one	20:44
DocScrutinizer	heh, actually locked?	20:44
chx	esaym153: hey i have a warehouse worth of cheap n900 phones here but need to pay a small customs fee to access to them, care wire me some 5000 dollars ?	20:44
DocScrutinizer	simlock or netlock?	20:44
steinex	netlock	20:45
DocScrutinizer	eeew	20:45
esaym153	unlocked hopefully...	20:45
steinex	at least i think so ;)	20:45
esaym153	chx: 5000 yen?	20:45
steinex	i'm not actually sure	20:45
mikki-kun	can a n900 be netlocked?	20:45
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mikki-kun	and even if, reinstalling new pr should kill it	20:46
MohammadAG	or so you think :P	20:47
steinex	mikki-kun: yeah might be, i've upgraded it to 1.3 and never cared if another sim/net works	20:47
DocScrutinizer	mikki-kun: that's quite questionable. the cellmo FW is closed	20:47
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mikki-kun	DocScrutinizer: but how on earth can they netlock it?	20:48
DocScrutinizer	and if there's a lock bit set in some config area in cellmo, then you won't unlock it by a simple reflash	20:48
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mikki-kun	special permission by nokia?	20:48
MohammadAG	not really	20:48
DocScrutinizer	that's done by Nokia	20:48
MohammadAG	locking is possible since PR1.1	20:48
mikki-kun	Ö.ö	20:48
mikki-kun	omfg	20:48
steinex	netlock = every vodafone.de sim works, right?	20:49
steinex	simlock = just this very sim works?	20:49
MohammadAG	that's why there's an Unlock operator crap option in Settings > tap title bar	20:49
DocScrutinizer	netlock=every SIM of e.g simyo or mobilecm or whatever works, as long as same carrier network. Simlock=only vodafone sims work	20:50
DocScrutinizer	for some weird reason it seems netlocks are harder to unlock than simlocks	20:51
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DocScrutinizer	also yoiu can't roam with netlocked phone	20:51
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DocScrutinizer	I might be wrong though	20:52
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: exactly	20:53
DocScrutinizer	I think in Pr<1.1 this has been a button to enter PUK, there in settings-menu. Wonder where's that gone	20:55
DocScrutinizer	aah, yeah. nevermind	20:56
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Choom	are there any carriers actually selling locked N900?	21:01
chx	wait, are there any carries actually sellling N900?	21:01
zogg_	DocScrutinizer iphone rulezzzz	21:01
Choom	zogg_: if you're willing to bend over and take it from apple, then I agree, otherwise it's way too uncomfortable to bear	21:02
zogg_	Choom, you don't get it, they have tap tap revenge 4	21:03
zogg_	and if you want to be serious it's better gay sex than no sex in life is Nokia is not interested in you anymore	21:03
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RST38h	mmm	21:05
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zogg_	RST38h are you happy for ODF elected to be your national standart?	21:06
Choom	zogg_: personally I do not appreciate the way treats both developers and customers with the app store	21:06
Choom	zogg_: personally I do not appreciate the way apple treats both developers and customers with the app store	21:06
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zogg_	RST38h, and that mihalkov wants 1% of phones from Nokia, HTC and Samsung for copyright content ?	21:06
zogg_	Choom and you are very happy for OVI?	21:07
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RST38h	zogg_: What are you? And what are you talking about?	21:07
Choom	until they give up on their monopolistic behavior (or get sued to oblivion like Microsoft did over IE and interoperability in the EU) they shall never see a single cent from me	21:07
zogg_	and don't say there are official repos, cause it's community work there so devs work for maemo repo for experience users is liek devs jailbreak and open repos for iphone for experience users =)	21:07
Choom	zogg_: I'm happy for not being locked to OVI	21:07
zogg_	RST38h, забыл меня ? =(	21:08
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Choom	zogg_: jailbreaking isn't legal in the EU, which happens to be where I live	21:08
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* RST38h does not readUnicode		21:08
Choom	ZogG: it also comes with the problem of voiding the warranty, which in the EU is of 2 years for all consumer products	21:09
Choom	oops	21:09
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evilsquelch	hello	21:09
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Choom	ah, it completed to the right name	21:09
evilsquelch	hello	21:09
evilsquelch	anyone have nitdroid working?	21:09
ZogG	RST38h hmmm, do you use cp1251?	21:09
ZogG	evilsquelch if you want 2.3 don't ask - just wait	21:10
RST38h	ZogG: this particular console is latin	21:11
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ZogG	RST38h, aren't you russian?	21:11
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RST38h	in a way, yes	21:11
ZogG	RST38h damn i was too inactive here for a long time u forgot me =(	21:13
ZogG	even DocScrutinizer doesn't liek me like before	21:13
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ZogG	and DocScrutinizer-8 is not cool as DocScrutinizer51	21:14
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RST38h	ZogG: No, you have not been trolling before and now you are trolling =)	21:16
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ZogG	RST38h i was always been trolling =)	21:18
ZogG	have*	21:18
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ZogG	just i was trolling fat and for joek, and even now i do, but about apple and nokia sex - it's kinda true, though i hate apple =)	21:19
nox-	moin	21:19
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ZogG	btw as i'm not expert in linux and deb based OS specially, how can i reinstall whole system (not flashing), or check ifall packages are not broken?	21:20
ZogG	just ran rm -R /var/lib/dpkg instead of /var/lib/dpkg/lock and though i stoped it still removed something	21:22
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RST38h	apt-get -f	21:22
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lcuk	apt-get -ohcrap	21:23
MohammadAG	ZogG, you're hopeless, reinstall the whole OS	21:27
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Venemo	hey guys	21:33
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kerio	ZogG: hahaha	21:34
kerio	lcuk: apt-get should totally get a -ohcrap option	21:34
kerio	emergency dpkg reinstall	21:34
lcuk	kerio, ALL apps should have that option	21:35
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kerio	yeah but it makes sense for apt	21:37
Venemo	kerio: what do you mean by emergency dpkg reinstall?	21:37
kerio	well, less dpkg and more everything	21:37
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kerio	say, you run a rm -rf / by mistake as root	21:38
kerio	if you still have apt-get, you should be able to get a working system back with apt-get -ohcrap	21:38
khertan	6 hours to download a fucking n900 image	21:38
xim_	i question your pressuppostions	21:38
khertan	nokia servers sucks !	21:38
khertan	and md5sums failed	21:39
Venemo	kerio: well if you rm -rf / then you won't have apt either	21:39
xim_	is the n900 dying?	21:39
xim_	i read nokia stopped supporting it	21:39
kerio	Venemo: if you ^c it in time	21:39
kerio	maybe you lose half of /bin/ but you keep /usr/bin/apt-get	21:40
evilsquelch	i just reflashed my n900	21:41
evilsquelch	so many updates for maemo5	21:41
MohammadAG	khertan, blame your internet :P	21:41
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evilsquelch	xim_: i am sure it is	21:41
evilsquelch	xim_: but as long as there is a community it will be fine	21:41
lcuk	khertan, eepi would guess though that the errors come between leaving maemo servers and entering your device, since more people would notice md5 errors	21:41
khertan	MohammadAG, lol i ven't any problem except with nokia server tablet-dev	21:41
lcuk	ie not a maemo problem?	21:42
piggz	xim_: and it is an ace phone, for me anyway!	21:42
khertan	lcuk, the md5 error is due to download error	21:42
* MohammadAG downloads meego netbook		21:42
lcuk	yes	21:42
MohammadAG	khertan, not a server error	21:42
lcuk	and are there to help you diagnose if your internet cloud is shite	21:42
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khertan	MohammadAG, probably not a server error but one of this fucking not working nokia cache servers	21:43
* khertan is angry		21:43
* MohammadAG hands khertan his ISP's number		21:43
MohammadAG	the caches are fine	21:43
lcuk	khertan, was it mobile broadband?	21:44
lcuk	MohammadAG, specific dependencies for FOSS mediaplayer?	21:44
khertan	MohammadAG, the problem isn't the isp as else i ll get problem with many other site	21:44
khertan	which isn't the case	21:44
xim_	i love mine, was the n900 ever for sale publicly? i got mine as a gift from someone who had multiple early promo versions? did yall buy yours at stores?	21:44
khertan	lcuk, nope on my desktop	21:44
MohammadAG	lcuk, hmm?	21:44
xim_	http://computer-forensics.sans.org/blog/2010/03/17/nokia-n900-forensic-cheat-sheet/	21:44
khertan	and the tablets-dev server has always been slow	21:45
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khertan	from home, from workt too, for other people i know too	21:45
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khertan	but today ... it s worst than ever	21:45
evilsquelch	maemo 5 20.2010.36-2.002 takes forever	21:45
evilsquelch	blegh	21:45
xim_	evilsquelch, any tips for someone about to reflash their device in like 10 minutes?	21:45
lcuk	khertan, :) time to try meego then, more server power	21:45
evilsquelch	132.5mb of forever	21:46
evilsquelch	xim_: no real tip, just don't add the other repos until after your updates	21:46
evilsquelch	xim_: mine froze up when i tried to do that	21:46
evilsquelch	it was updating while i was changing repos, the n900 doesn't like that	21:46
khertan	lcuk, lol and if i use a proxy from finland ... i download it at 450Kb/S	21:47
khertan	lcuk, hum ... n900 meego image are located at the same place	21:47
khertan	:(	21:47
MohammadAG	khertan, no, repo.meego.com/builds I think	21:47
xim_	evilsquelch, gotcha	21:47
khertan	lcuk, or maybe you mean meego from an other manufacturer :)	21:47
MohammadAG	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/	21:47
khertan	MohammadAG, was talking of the meego builds for n900	21:48
khertan	:)	21:48
MohammadAG	khertan, that has N900 builds	21:48
khertan	to be honest i didn't think i ll move with meego	21:48
lcuk	the ones on tablet-dev are not standard	21:48
lcuk	normal proper inline integrated real builds of meego are from server MohammadAG pointed to	21:48
MohammadAG	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.80/1.1.80.11.20101221.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.80.11.20101221.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2	21:48
MohammadAG	lcuk, hmm?	21:49
MohammadAG	lcuk, what does not standard mean?	21:49
lcuk	:)	21:49
evilsquelch	xim_: look at long waits as maemo5 updates too	21:50
xim_	evilsquelch, did you flash the rootfs only or eMMC and rootfs?	21:51
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khertan	not standart mean with phone working ?	21:52
evilsquelch	xim_: i did combo flash	21:52
evilsquelch	all	21:52
khertan	but meego isn't ready to be use	21:52
xim_	evilsquelch, sorry to ask so many questions but did you do it manually like on this page? http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	21:54
khertan	and didn't work on my n900	21:54
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khertan	by didn't work i would say isn't useable on my n900	21:54
evilsquelch	yep	21:54
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khertan	2 min to load a terminal	21:55
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khertan	result in a white screen	21:55
evilsquelch	xim_: used my fedora laptop and flasher-3.5	21:55
xim_	cool thanks	21:55
khertan	i ll stick with maemo which i prefer	21:55
khertan	:)	21:55
evilsquelch	not a problem	21:55
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MohammadAG	muhahaha	22:37
MohammadAG	my device flashed with a fully dead battery (MeeGo-dead)	22:37
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MohammadAG	argh	22:38
* MohammadAG stabs it		22:38
MohammadAG	It booted up fully, then bme shut it down after saying "Recharge battery"	22:39
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khertan	MohammadAG, lucky you are i'm still downloading the image ...	22:41
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Sicelo	MohammadAG, what happens when you connect phone to charger?	22:44
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javispedro	hm	22:47
javispedro	did we finally invent a way to remotely punch TMO users in the face?	22:48
MohammadAG	It'd charge I guess, I just have it connected over USB	22:48
khertan	javispedro, ignoring them ?	22:48
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javispedro	khertan: i'd wish, but he keeps stalking me and posting bullshit on my threads	22:48
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khertan	javispedro, as usual ... release an app an people will complain	22:49
javispedro	at this point I'd need a way to ignore the comments he puts on gitorious =)	22:49
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khertan	add a feature and they will complain for an other	22:50
khertan	people are always whinning	22:50
* khertan complain about slowness of nokia servers		22:50
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Pradeep	alterego, wats up	23:24
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xim_	im trying to download the recent firmwarez for my n900 should i get the global one or the usa one? (being that I live in the USA)	23:28
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xim_	what is the global varient?	23:30
Pradeep	xim_, hmmm cant really say but i stay in nigeria and i downloaded the global firmware	23:31
xim_	i bet its like celsius/farenheit color/colour hood/bonnet type stuff	23:32
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Pradeep	i think the global should everywhere	23:35
Pradeep	xim_, have you update before	23:35
Pradeep	xim_, u there	23:35
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Pradeep	ok there you download both	23:37
xim_	im here	23:37
xim_	i see	23:38
Pradeep	n use it till you find which is suitable	23:38
xim_	right, good thinking	23:38
RST38h	Bank of America has snapped up hundreds of abusive domain names for its senior executives and board members in what is being perceived as a defensive strategy against the future publication of damaging insider info from whistleblowing Website WikiLeaks.	23:39
Pradeep	so it all depends	23:39
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javispedro	RST38h: is there a list of examples?	23:40
Pradeep	but have you used a flasher before...	23:43
Pradeep	huh?	23:43
xim_	Pradeep, just my desktop/laptop bios	23:43
xim_	i see all these rules about this tho (Always flash the eMMC image first, then the FIASCO image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image! When flashing eMMC always also flash FIASCO rootfs - NEVER boot the device between the two flashes.)	23:44
OEXPL	Hmm, Why is the CPU transperacy list empty, even when I installed the cputransp devkit?	23:44
Pradeep	sounds funny	23:44
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OEXPL	in scratchbox	23:44
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Pradeep	ok	23:48
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lardman	Merry Christmas all if I'm not online tomorrow	23:50
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kerio	happy Yuletide	23:51
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Pradeep	same to you man	23:52
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