IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-12-15

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lardmannight00:29
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trumeeis it possible to make the telepathy-sip client to go offline/online via cli?00:33
trumeeusing some dbus call.00:33
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trumeeok found out, mc-tool can do that.00:36
Venemotrumee: take it online/offline while monitoring dbus chatter00:36
Venemotrumee: nevermind then00:36
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trumeeiperf suggests that my bandwidth to the router is about 13mbps. is that reasonable?00:40
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trumeeanybody measured their wifi speed?00:41
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trumeehmm. My joggler gives 34.8 mbps, in comparison N900 wifi is pretty shitty.00:43
SpeedEvilI get pretty close to 54M/200:44
SpeedEvil(I don't have a ethernet connected router, so it's going both ways00:44
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ShadowJKthat's more than what you're supposed to get?00:45
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trumeeSpeedEvil, is that with Full power saving?00:46
* ShadowJK thought you could get 54/2 max in payload for a single wireless client00:46
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SpeedEvilpower saving is irrelevant00:52
SpeedEvilit goes off when you're moving enough data00:52
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trumeeSpeedEvil, yes power-saving didn't make any difference to iperf reported bandwidth.00:59
trumeeSpeedEvil, what router are you running?01:01
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SpeedEvildynamode something01:02
SpeedEvilDo you happen to have  package for iperf?01:02
SpeedEvilactually - nvm - won't wok01:02
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trumeeSpeedEvil, there is one in devel repo.01:04
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trumeeSpeedEvil, Joggler vs N900, http://pastebin.com/NMd7ft0E01:15
SpeedEvilSure one isn't n?01:15
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trumeenope.01:16
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trumeeSpeedEvil, sorry joggler is indeed 'n' device01:20
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comawhiteanyone know where I can find information on when the phone receives events like, someone is calling, etc?01:26
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mikki-kuni think maemo uses dbus commands for that01:26
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mikki-kunbut i can't help you more than that, i am sorry, never been into dbus so much01:27
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user____hey guys, where browser caches flash video?01:33
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user____or it's plugin01:35
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mikki-kuni think in ~/MyDocs/tmp/ :)01:39
mikki-kunthey are something like FlashR4nDoM01:40
mikki-kunthe flash-videos01:40
user____mikki-kun: haha thanks man!!!01:41
mikki-kunnp :)01:41
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mikki-kuntryin to help as much as i can :)01:42
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mikki-kunuser____: but for flash-videos (if only youtube) i would definitly recommend to use cutetube01:44
mikki-kuni absolutely love it if i am only on my n90001:45
pupnikminitube is broken right now01:45
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user____mikki-kun: no, yt blocked in china01:46
mikki-kunyou're from china?01:46
user____mikki-kun: y01:46
mikki-kunmaybe it has proxy settings01:46
mikki-kunhm, sadly no :/01:46
mikki-kunjust checked01:46
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user____mikki-kun: no, i'm using tudou01:47
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mikki-kunuser____: maybe someone can rewrite cutetube for use in tudou :)01:49
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user____mikki-kun: i don see point, since i can grab from cache01:52
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mikki-kunit grabs and downloads in either 240p, 360p, 480p or 720p :)01:53
mikki-kunso you watch and download at the same time01:54
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user____mikki-kun: sure, i try that gotta go class, i'm good to go now01:57
user____peace01:58
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GeneralAntillesIt's temperatures like these when I'm thankful for a high TDP.01:59
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mikki-kunTDP?02:01
SpeedEvilThermal design power02:02
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SpeedEvilThe maximum thermal output a CPU heatsink should be designed for02:02
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MohammadAGgod I hate RPM so much :/04:18
MohammadAGerror: Package has no %description: kernel-n900 can't even build meego's kernel properly04:18
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myuwhere does the n900 save camera recrodings?05:00
MohammadAGDCIM for images and video I think05:02
MohammadAG/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM05:02
ieatlintah... good old yahoo... masters of the "oops, we're serving porn to EVERYONE who does an image search and don't know why"05:02
MohammadAGnight05:03
ieatlintrecordings may also be on the sd card if they're not in MyDocs05:03
ieatlintbut also in the folder DCIM05:03
myusd05:03
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myuyeah that was the problem05:03
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myuI recognize dcim from my camera05:03
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myubut it was in my SD05:03
ieatlintshould be /media or something05:04
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myuyeah .media05:07
myuthere were two dcims for whatever reason05:07
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ds3\05:30
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myualso I cant seem to send video via fmms05:31
myuis this normal?05:31
SpeedEvilAs I understand it mms doesn't do video05:32
SpeedEvilMaybe I'm wrong.05:32
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Jay_BEEgood evening (ugt)05:35
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ieatlintmms does  video, dunno if fmms supports it06:19
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Termanagood morning06:39
lolloohelloo06:39
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lolloomaemo notify on xchat is not working properly for me06:45
lollooit does show balloons but doesnt make light notify or sound or viberate06:46
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iluminator101hey guys i am looking for a digitial compass app for n90007:21
comawhitelolloo, xchat isn't native to n90007:23
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lucentis there an extras of kernel modules compiled for the power kernel on N900 ?07:39
lucentI have host mode USB working for enumeration, but my device (a USB serial adapter) needs the mct_u232 driver07:40
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comawhiteis it safe to use n900 in my unix project name on garage?08:00
comawhiteit only mentions maemo since it's trademarked, just wonder if n900 is08:00
comawhitenevermind just used the name without n900 in it.08:02
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comawhitehope it gets accepted08:04
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DocScrutinizerBlessN90008:07
comawhite?08:08
DocScrutinizerIt's even commercial08:08
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DocScrutinizeror N900fly, or whatever it's called08:12
DocScrutinizerapt-cache search n900|grep n90008:14
comawhite:)08:14
comawhitei don't have the sdk on this laptop08:14
comawhitewouldn't be worth running on it08:14
DocScrutinizerI see :-D08:15
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DocScrutinizern900-fmrx-enabler livecast-hildon-n900 n900fly blessn900 man-db-n900 con900 irreco-for-n900 faenza-n900-icons n900ftp08:16
comawhiteblah I gotta learn javascript :(08:17
lucentDocScrutinizer: I'm mildly curious about getting usb evice drivers compiled for my N900 (usb hostmode), how involved is it to get there from an Ubuntu desktop environment?08:17
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DocScrutinizerlargely depends on the driver08:18
lucentit's a usb serial driver, the mct_u23208:18
DocScrutinizershould probably 'just work'08:18
lucentbut, I would need the driver?08:18
DocScrutinizeryes08:19
DocScrutinizerI meant the driver compiling08:19
lucentah, okay I understand you now :)08:19
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lucentI have not done N900 development, is there some kind of recipe to do it and let the CPU churn while I get a coffee?08:20
lucentor, would I need to set up many things on the host system08:20
ds3get a cross compiler and make should suffice08:21
DocScrutinizeryou usually need a crosscompile environment, like scratchbox or maybe madde (I think the latter is not capable to do driver/kernel development)08:22
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lucentgood to know thank you, will stick to researching n900 and scratchbox :)08:22
ds3for kernel/modules, you don't need scratchbox08:23
ds3just a x-compiler08:23
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lucentds3: know a good tutorial?08:24
ds3lucent: not really.. it is more or less self explanatory... biggest difference between normal x86 kernel builds is you need to add 2 parameters08:25
DocScrutinizerds3: basically I bet you're absolutely right. I'd boggle to try and set it up by myself though08:25
ds3i.e. to build a zImage for x86, you would do something like 'make zImage'08:25
ds3for the n900 and other ARM platforms - 'make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-none-linux-gnueabi- zImage'08:26
ds3where arm-none-linux-gnueabi- is the prefix for your tool chain...this name is typical for the Code Sourcery stuff08:26
ds3so that's the tutorial in a nutshell :D08:26
DocScrutinizerotoh installing sb is just scary enough, so getting x-compiler to work "natively" might be a pleasant experience compared to that :-P08:27
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ds3userland is scary in general thanks to people who like using poorly designed tools ;)08:28
ds3kernel xcompiles easily08:28
DocScrutinizerds3: we're talking bout modules anyway08:28
ds3same idea08:29
lucentds3: which sources would I do this from, mainline or something else? I run 2.6.28.10power46 kernel08:29
ds3let me dig up the command line -08:29
lucentalso thank you very much, for taking the time to explain this08:29
ds3do you want in kernel tree modules or out of tree modules?08:30
ds3lucent: you need to find the author to get that... I suspect it has patches on top of mainline (which is typical)... since it is GPLed....08:30
lucentthe driver I seek to make work is part of mainline, it's the usb serial mct_u23208:30
ds3OH that..that's easy08:30
DocScrutinizerds3: out of maemo tree08:30
ds3get the tree; make ARCH=arm menuconfig; select the kernel (goto option, do 'm'); exit;save config08:31
ds3make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-none-linux-gnueabi- modules08:31
ds3that should generate the mct_u232.ko and probally usbserial.ko08:31
ds3out of tree is a bit trickier08:31
DocScrutinizerds3: you're amazing, while I wait for coffee to kick in and just stare :-)08:32
ds3DocScrutinizer: is that on a git server or a tarball?08:32
ds3DocScrutinizer: have something to do with this stuff being the day job ;)08:32
lucentseconded, amazing.08:32
DocScrutinizer:-D08:33
DocScrutinizerds3: (tar) no idea, was just talking outa my ass and trying to answer lucent's question08:33
lucentshame about packet injection code for wifi hardware driver not being released :(08:33
ds3btw, you can also set ARM and CROSS_COMPILE as environment variables and just put in your ~/.login or .profile or .bashrc or ....08:34
ds3set ARCH I mean08:34
ds3I do it on the command line so it is obvious to me what I am compile08:34
lucentds3 have you played with jrbme at all? (bme replacement)08:35
DocScrutinizeroh there is ? :-P08:35
ds3lucent: nope... I am trying to limit the experiments I do on it since the n900 is acting as my always on me laptop08:35
ds3fcam et al really threw me in for a loop08:36
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ds3has anyone used jaikuspot since PR1.2?08:37
DocScrutinizerI wonder how the half done version of jrbme has escaped from my laptop X-P08:37
lucenthmm, jaikuspot no08:38
lucentit's not AP mode though?08:38
DocScrutinizerds3: seems since mobilehotspot the yoghurt sport pkg has lost a lot of interest08:38
ds3DocScrutinizer: are you leaving sshd running and have accounts w/o passwords? ;)08:38
lucentI couldn't make use of Ad-Hoc mode for most of my devices08:38
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DocScrutinizerds3: not really :-D08:39
ds3DocScrutinizer: mobile hotspot doesn't work for me; donno why08:39
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DocScrutinizerumm, I gaher you're a true admin guy, so I suspect you're reluctant to install the power kernel to your "always on you laptop"08:40
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ds3I have the power kernel installed08:40
DocScrutinizerand have installed hotspot from source or sth08:41
DocScrutinizeroh, then scratch that08:41
ds3nope, used app manager to install both08:41
ds3I was playing with it but after the fcam fiasco, I am backing off on experiments08:41
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DocScrutinizerlucent: up to date there's no real life advantage for users to fuss around with (jr)bme08:44
lucentroger that08:44
DocScrutinizerI promised I release a version for h-e-n before new year08:44
ds3is there a jrbme for the N800?08:45
DocScrutinizernope08:45
DocScrutinizern90008:45
ds3'k08:46
ds3has anyone reported a weird problem after using h-e-n where the alerts would go off w/o apparent reason?08:46
DocScrutinizerhighlight shall be: support for both hostmodes (powering & charging HM), charging from alien chargers at user defined current, support for hotswap, better battery care than bme08:47
ds3hotswap?08:48
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DocScrutinizerbattery hotswap08:48
ds3Oh nice08:48
ds3wonder how well would the phone module behave with that feature08:49
DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5773408:49
lucentI'm in love with the warning text, already08:49
DocScrutinizermodem spoils the show, you need to switch it off - or gamble08:49
lucentvery good.08:49
ds3I was thinking more of using that to hotswap the SIM08:52
ds3just donno if the phone module will appreciate that08:52
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lucentI'm kind of lost, where to obtain the kernel sources, and the titan power kernel patches08:57
lucentnot from http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html or yes?08:57
ds3wonder if there is a source deb or like?08:57
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lucenthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide seems to be a howto08:58
lucentI'll try following it08:58
RST38hhttp://my-maemo.com/index.php?p=6887&c=2009:00
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DocScrutinizerds3: modem will object to hotswapping SIM. The credentials don't match the SIM anymore (topic PIN etc)09:25
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camerisis there a port of gnupg2 for the n810?09:32
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jase21Hi guys! In order to develop PyQt Apps for Maemo 5 which SDK should I download? Should I required any SDK? Can I develop it right on N900?09:42
jase21Please?09:43
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jase21No one?09:45
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jase21okay then don't speek.09:46
ieatlinti don't use python myself, but to develop for it, you'd need what you'd expect09:46
DocScrutinizer51you're aware of python being an interpreting scripting language?09:46
ieatlintpython, qt, and the bindings09:46
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mecejase21, khteditor for N900 :)09:47
ieatlintyou can use the phone, or just write straight pyqt and test it on a desktop... you can also use the sdk to run it in a maemo environment on your computer and have the look/feel as it would on the phone09:47
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jase21okay09:48
jase21So I can write a desktop app using pyqt and straight away run it in maemo, right? (unless I use any maemo specific apis)09:49
DocScrutinizer51jase21: btw IRC is no 0900 phone hotline. It's quite bold to expect answer during 180sec and start to bitch if none09:49
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jase21DocScrutinizer51: Sorry. I'll ask at maemo talk then.09:50
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DocScrutinizer51oh, the time-til-answer is less than 3 minutes there? :-P09:51
ieatlintyeah, they get paid well there, i hear09:51
RobbieThe1stjase21: I've tried it with PyQT4 and Python and I was able to take something I wrote on my Linux desktop(and ran) and run it from ny N900 without issue09:51
RobbieThe1stAdmittedly,, the design of some elements is signifigantly different09:51
jase21RobbieThe1st: okay,09:52
ieatlintheh, yeah, like qlistwidget and similar09:52
ieatlintanyway, me go food09:52
jase21DocScrutinizer51: How you doing?09:53
DocScrutinizer~tell jase21 about question09:53
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jase21~tell09:53
jase21?09:53
jase21infobot seems to be angry with you Doc09:54
DocScrutinizernot at all09:54
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jase21Then why isn't he responding?09:54
DocScrutinizershe sent you a private query09:55
jase21Oh, didn't see that. Let me read that. Hmm09:55
DocScrutinizerwhich you obviously haven't noticed yet09:55
camerissomeone knows of gnupg2 port for n810? only found it for n900.09:56
jase21Yes. I got that.09:56
jase21@doc09:56
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* jase21 says that he will make Google is best friend. 09:57
DocScrutinizerbbl09:57
DocScrutinizero/09:57
jase21Good Night09:58
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RobbieThe1stDun Dun Dunnnn: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/15/0153255/Amazon-Taking-Down-Erotica-Removing-From-Kindles10:00
RobbieThe1stHopefully this'll make people think more in terms of censorship when thinking about an ebook reader10:01
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ploumHello10:10
ploumHow can I start/stop services in Maemo10:10
ploumthere are not in /etc/init.d/10:10
ploumI thought it was debian-like10:10
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RobbieThe1stploum: There's a special service that does it. I forget the name, but it's something Nokia added.10:14
ploumRobbieThe1st, I've tried upstard without success10:14
ploumso it's yet another service to launch process ;-)10:14
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RobbieThe1stLook at what the camera daemon uses10:20
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DocScrutinizerploum: start xxx; stop xxx10:27
DocScrutinizerploum: it's upstart10:27
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ploumDocScrutinizer : doesn't seem to work with dbus10:28
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DocScrutinizererrm, dbus? why not?10:28
DocScrutinizer/etc/init.d/dbus stop ?10:30
ploum> stop dbus10:31
ploumstop: Name "com.ubuntu.Upstart" does not exist10:31
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DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ls /etc/rc2.d/|grep dbus10:31
DocScrutinizerS20dbus10:31
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comawhiteyay my project got accepted in garage10:32
ploumDocSCrutinizer : no dbus in /etc/init.d, that's why I'm asking10:32
DocScrutinizerploum: then your system is either a) not maemo5, or b) messed up10:32
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ploumDocScrutinizer : hmm, maybe I messed it up at some point, will investigate that, sorry then10:33
DocScrutinizernp10:33
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ls -l /etc/init.d/dbus10:34
DocScrutinizer-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5641 2009-08-12 10:35 /etc/init.d/dbus10:34
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ls -l /etc/event.d/dbus*10:35
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1586 2009-08-14 09:32 /etc/event.d/dbus10:35
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1586 2009-08-14 09:32 /etc/event.d/dbus-actdead10:35
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  234 2010-01-31 20:06 /etc/event.d/dbus-scripts10:35
DocScrutinizerploum: ^^^ event.d are upstart10:36
DocScrutinizera lot of upstart scripts call init.d scripts in turn10:36
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DocScrutinizer(the  /etc/event.d/dbus-scripts is irrelevant, it's another pkg)10:37
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DocScrutinizercya10:37
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ploumthanks :-)10:38
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DocScrutinizerploum: haha, upstart is using dbus :-P10:42
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DocScrutinizerinteresting question how it is supposed to handle a start dbus command10:42
DocScrutinizeryour error msg >stop: Name "com.ubuntu.Upstart" does not exist< is related to problems the stop cmd has encountered on dbus10:43
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DocScrutinizer(at least that's my take on it)10:44
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ieatlinti'd guess he's getting that error because it was able to shut down some parts, but not all10:49
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plouminteresting10:50
fralsnever seen an ubuntu reference in maemo5 before :o10:50
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ploumwait…10:51
ploumI messed a bit my system10:51
ploumMaybe I copied files from my own computer10:51
ploumdam10:51
ploumI was not in my scratchbox terminal when I copy/pasted !10:52
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ploumthat explain all10:52
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ploumI was in a virtual system I'm testing for a server10:52
ploumsorry guys ;-)10:52
JaffaMorning, all10:53
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sivangmorning10:57
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RST38h<yawn>11:06
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RST38h"The independent writers who publish on Amazon report that erotica books containing incest are being taken down with no explanation by Amazon, and removed from the Kindles of purchasers of the books."11:06
RST38hAnd good morning to you all11:07
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chem|stRST38h: and servers are denied11:08
RST38hchem|st: Really? Works from here.11:08
chem|stRST38h: wikileaks11:08
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RST38hDunno, works fine11:09
RobbieThe1stRST38h: Yea. Brings to light the problem that the OSS people have been talking about for agesa11:09
ieatlintdamn right, the will of an unknown group of people should be able to force a company to do business with another group they like!11:10
RobbieThe1stWhat? I'm talking about the books removed from people's Kindles11:10
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ieatlintyeah, it's unfortunate, including the removing it from people who had it...11:10
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chem|stRST38h: in germany the pirates talk about modding the incest law to make it possible to adopt while forbidden to have own children instead of forbidding incest love at all...11:11
chem|stRST38h: ?11:11
ieatlintincest is legal in most of the US though11:12
ieatlinti believe including in oregon, where amazon is based11:12
chem|stieatlint: explains itself...11:12
johnsu01amazon is based in washington11:12
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ieatlintoh, right, hah11:13
ieatlinti think it's legal there too :P11:13
RobbieThe1stConsidering, though, that there are a number of historical works that -weren't- taken down with the same content...11:13
johnsu01intel is oregon :)11:13
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chem|stieatlint: the US have proofen to follow an even darker path to hell than germans did 60 years ago11:13
RobbieThe1stLike(at least according to Slashdot) the Bible...11:13
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chem|stieatlint: that btw hits only religious people, to have politics and religion at least mentioned once a day ;)11:14
ieatlintchem|st: save your rhetoric for people willing to listen11:14
cehtehwhimps ... server DoS against amazon are so childish .. if you want to do a real DoS then order everything you ever wanted from amazon11:14
cehteh.. and just send it back when it arrives :P11:14
chem|stcehteh: good idea11:14
Termanaieatlint, are you sure about that, I thought incest was ILLEGAL in US except for like second-cousins and further out or something like that? (Although different in certain states)11:14
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cehtehthats actually legal .. and harms them more than server attacks11:15
RobbieThe1stMurder is illegal too - But we have huge amounts of stories about that11:15
ieatlinti take that back, incest is illegal in washington11:15
ieatlintjust looked it up :P11:15
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ieatlintcehteh: actually that could be considered illegal11:16
ieatlinti'm sure they could call it fraud or similar11:16
chem|stieatlint: but you are not allowed to be naked in rooms with windows...11:16
ieatlintchem|st: this is news to me11:16
Termanaieatlint, still it doesn't really matter whether it's illegal or not to HAVE incest, it doesn't make works describing incest illegal11:16
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cehtehieatlint: fraus is when you use the things and dont pay11:16
TermanaHAVE/take part11:16
cehtehthey offer you a return policy11:16
TermanaChoose your poison11:16
ieatlintTermana: very true... but the case to remove it is lessened if it's a legal act to begin with11:16
chem|stieatlint: that is actualy terms of service of amazon, have a look and send it back if you don't like it11:16
cehtehyou just excercise your rights11:17
ieatlintin california at least, the law says companies are only bound to the return policy in good faith11:17
sivangDocScrutinizer: What's your last name?11:17
ieatlinta person seeking to abuse it is not necessarily protected11:17
sivangDocScrutinizer: (attributing credit on the bug trail)11:17
cehtehnot even "dont like it" ... the reasons for returning dont need to be specified iirc11:17
sivangDocScrutinizer: or can I add you the the CC list ?11:18
cehtehwhile i would suggest "wikileaks" is a proper reason11:18
RobbieThe1stMeh. I'll never buy a Kindle; it's just too "fragile", what with Amazon having control over it's contents.11:18
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TermanaI don't have time to read, so I don't care about the Kindle :p11:19
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sivanghi ArGGu^^ , how is the irc client going? :)11:19
* RST38h idly muses that by playing s&m nanny, Amazon actually encourages people to stea^H^Hdownload ebooks instead11:20
chem|stcehteh: ot: the insurance company now wants my wheatbeer-coked mobile sent in to some repair shop... isnt it less expensive to just pay instead of having 3 people spent hours on it and two 32eur shipments?11:20
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Termanachem|st, why are you caring about how much it costs - if the insurance company wants to spend more money then they are idiots :p11:21
ArGGu^^sivang no progress at moment, but my christmas holiday started today so finaly time to start coding :)11:21
chem|stTermana: I want to keep the damaged device...11:21
TermanaOh I see11:21
chem|stwell there is an option I get it back...11:21
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ieatlintoften they want the dead device to ensure that you aren't abusing your insurance policy (or, to attempt to verify the damage done is covered by the policy)11:22
ArGGu^^sivang I'm planning to finish it in this holiday :)11:23
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ArGGu^^My holiday lasts about 3 ½ weeks so I think I can get i done in that time :)11:25
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ArGGu^^*it done11:26
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chem|stwell it is not my insurance and it is working, apart of two buttons... "it is drought in wheatbeer" should be enough to have an argument about "you return my repaired wheatbeer device... warranty void and it gets out of service in say one month, may I ask for a replacement then?"11:26
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chem|stTermana: ++ it is a hell of a work to get all my modified files from it and backuped...11:27
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chem|stis it enough to backup and just device lock?11:30
cehtehencryption frw11:30
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chem|stcehteh: well I would clean out my userdata, I was more thinking of they cannot do anything withit without a reflash11:31
chem|stand me not doing a reflash in the first place11:31
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DocScrutinizer51sivang: my full name is Joerg Reisenweber, and you arte free to add me to CC11:32
cehtehreminds me that i want to try encryption too, just no time yet11:32
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chem|stcehteh: as noone pointed me to a rock solid stable kernel yet and I am to lazy to compile stock with it... I had time I spent for s/t else11:34
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cehtehpower46 works for me .. after i reflashed the device after some serious breakacke some weeks ago11:34
cehtehwith works for me i mean its really good, dont even need to reboot every some days11:35
cehtehuptime 11d ...11:35
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DocScrutinizer51chem|st: I suggest nuking NOLO11:36
cehtehok not that much, but before i rebooted the device every few days to get rid of some fuckup11:36
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: how does that improve that stability of the device? .. agreed that nolo is bad but well .. once you get over it it doesnt matter anymore11:37
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DocScrutinizer51it was a suggestion targeted at the insurance thing11:38
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cehtehah :)11:39
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sivangDocScrutinizer51: what's the email id on meego's bugzilla?11:50
DocScrutinizer51I got no account on meego, the gurus told me I don't need any11:50
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sivangDocScrutinizer51: who where those gurus? I know no guru but myself :-p11:54
sivangDocScrutinizer51: and you :)11:54
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: is that recoverable?11:54
TermanaDocScrutinizer51, funnily, if you have insurance and you just wanted a new phone or new N900 you could probably just nuke the NOLO bootloader and they would replace it. They wouldn't have a clue that you can restore it, unless they send it to Nokia repair (assuming most repair centres know you can restore it)11:54
TermanaNot that advocate insurance fraud11:54
Termanathat I*11:54
sivangDocScrutinizer51: just privmsg me an email address then11:55
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DocScrutinizer51chem|st: easily, if you're an expert11:55
DocScrutinizer51~coldflash11:55
infobotcoldflash is probably http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing11:55
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: didn't have to yet11:55
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: ah ok the coldflash procedure11:55
TermanaDocScrutinizer51, you mean, easily as long as your not an idiot and can follow a few instructions11:57
Termanayou're*11:57
sivangTermana: exactly11:57
sivang;)11:57
sivangWhy is it cold a called flash?11:57
chem|stright... like the guy the other day draining his battery with trying to flash till emergency charging mode...11:58
Termanasivang, it follows the same principle of cold and warm reboots11:58
Termana(on a PC)11:58
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chem|stsivang: flash with on device and off device11:58
Termanaeg. a warm reboot is where you reboot it and leave it on, a cold reboot is where you do a complete shutdown and then reboot11:59
sivangah, I see, so falshing while there's nothing running on the device and flasher treats it is a plain USB storage?11:59
DocScrutinizer51sivang: it's called cold as the system isn't started11:59
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Termanaeveryone else has used better terms of describing it than I did. I should go hang my head on the wall of shame12:00
Termana:P12:00
chem|stTermana: growing to knowledge how to explain you will young padawan12:00
delphilol12:01
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DocScrutinizer51it's basically from EE/hw domain, where a cold system is one that just powered up12:02
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chem|stand I jsut said "it was him..." http://media.photobucket.com/image/yoda%20jail/K-909/yoda.jpg12:02
DocScrutinizer51while hot means 'while up and running'12:02
sivangDocScrutinizer51: ah, so hardware is init'd but just it12:02
sivang?12:03
DocScrutinizer51sivang: yep12:03
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RST38hIs "Marble" worth keeping on the device?12:03
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: in these terms both are cold flashes12:03
DocScrutinizer51hmm, somewhat12:03
RST38hI am trying to use it, but it constantly keeps CPU at 100% and is completely unresponsive. Anyone has different experience?12:03
DocScrutinizer51but you can argue NOLO is a system12:04
DocScrutinizer51sw system12:04
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: kind of yes12:04
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DocScrutinizer51well, those terms are fuzzy anyway12:04
chem|stI'd like to get nolo to export all to usb instead of those two partitions only12:05
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DocScrutinizer51hot-xxx means 'do xxx while system running'12:05
DocScrutinizer51compare hotswap12:05
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chem|sthotswap means while port is powered12:06
DocScrutinizer51or 'while system powered'12:06
pupnikhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:IPhone_sales_per_quarter_simple.svg12:06
chem|stpupnik: who cares12:06
pupniki keep thinking of the lady bear in the youtube12:07
jasuarezanyone knows if it is possible to grant write permissions in maemo bugzilla for a project to other guy?12:07
pupnikis there a ping of death where i can set them on fire?12:07
pupnikbetter yet, explode while they're talking?12:08
chem|stand 2010-Q4 is that high because you now can buy it without SIM12:08
X-Fadedneary: css checked out.12:08
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RST38hpupnik: Why limit yourself to iphone users?12:08
dnearyX-Fade, Thanks! I was just about to ask12:09
Venemohi12:09
VenemoMohammadAG: good morning12:09
X-Fadedneary: I watch the commits list ;)12:09
dnearyNow to see how long before someone complains... See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10093 for details12:09
povbot`Bug 10093: Horizontal lines after level 1-2 headings in wiki.maemo.org12:09
dnearyX-Fade, It already messes some things up on the home page12:11
dneary(the "Register" button is in a h element)12:11
X-Fadedneary: Better override it in the wiki css then?12:11
dnearyX-Fade, As per my comment, I don't want to have something that is different just for the wiki12:12
dnearyIt's not a special case, I think.12:12
X-Fadedneary: Well then you need to check every single case :)12:12
dnearyOn content pages it looks great12:13
dnearyThe only places where it might not be OK are in headers, portal pages like downloads & news (where there are other decorative elements too which are duplication) and in sidebar menus (where it looks fine, I think)12:13
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DocScrutinizer51dneary: could you fix that annoying centered layout when showing a single tmo post please12:14
dnearyDocScrutinizer51, For tmo, please talk to Reggie, nothing to do with me12:14
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DocScrutinizer51aah ok12:14
dnearyCreate a bug & point him at it :)12:14
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dnearyX-Fade, OK, I'm going to do a quick fix to get 90% of the issues12:16
dnearyI'm going to drop underlining from h3s12:16
X-Fadedneary: ok.12:16
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dnearyDone12:17
X-Fadeupdated12:18
inkbottleI want to make a little modification on a package; but then how do i compile and install it?12:18
DocScrutinizer51dneary: *sigh* opening a ticket...12:19
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dnearyDocScrutinizer51, Reggie isn't in the habit of using Bugzilla - I'm using you to get to him ;)12:19
dnearyX-Fade, Thanks12:20
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DocScrutinizer51dneary: probably too much effort for tmo12:20
Venemoinkbottle: could you elaborate?12:20
dneary:)12:21
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inkbottleVenemo: I'm using agenda in testing, and there is something not working. So I've read the sources, and I'd like to make a modification12:22
Venemoinkbottle: and what's the problem?12:22
Venemoinkbottle: do you have an SDK?12:23
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Venemoinkbottle: maybe it would also be a good idea to contact the author of the package about the bug and send him a patch12:23
inkbottleVenemo: that's the problem; i don't know what to do next.12:23
inkbottleit would probably be the best idea12:24
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inkbottlebut i would have liked to try it right now; but if it's too complicated, i'll rather contact the author :-)12:25
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inkbottleVenemo: SDK must be on a different computer, is that right?12:25
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pupnikhttp://www.osnews.com/story/24136/_FBI_Added_Secret_Backdoors_to_OpenBSD_IPSEC_   [  the FBI paid several open source developers to implement hidden backdoors in OpenBSD's IPSEC stack ]12:27
dnearypupnik, Sounds like a great story12:28
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sivangpupnik: people here already decided to move to 2fish and serpentine12:31
sivangpupnik: to achive truecrypt, but hack, if you have anything to hide you'd better not use the internet right?12:31
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pupnikwell it's good to get code reviewed12:32
sivangthey claim nobody knows what's in there12:32
sivangeven though the code is open12:32
pupnikthis is a reason for more open source and code review, not less12:33
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alteregoHeh12:35
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toggleslol12:37
sivangopen source cannot defent against interests :)12:38
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Venemoinkbottle: google for "Nokia Qt SDK"12:40
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RST38hpupnik: What? OpenBSD devs did end up being assholes at the end?12:40
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pupniklol12:43
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TrackerDPPhello all12:51
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manzanoshi all12:54
TrackerDPPhi manzanos !12:55
manzanosdoes anyone know where I can find a good tutorial about host mode.. I tried to install on the phone with apt-get but I didn-t succeed12:55
manzanoshi TrackerDPP12:55
manzanosI tried apt-get install hostmode-gui12:56
TrackerDPPare check the server list on you hote ?12:56
manzanosuhm what do you mean? if my connection works?12:57
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TrackerDPPwhat is your hote type ?12:58
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manzanosn90012:59
TrackerDPPok12:59
TrackerDPPwhen you type "apt-get install [software]"13:01
TrackerDPPwhat is the problem13:02
TrackerDPP?13:02
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manzanosit depends13:03
manzanossometimes it says that coudn t find the package13:04
TrackerDPPit work ?13:04
manzanossometimes says that I have the software at updated at the latest version13:04
DocScrutinizerRST38h: (openBSD) if you're referring to what I think you do, then probably more like idiots rather than assholes13:04
manzanosmaybe there is some problem in the sources.list I don t know..13:04
DocScrutinizermanzanos: use appmanager to install13:05
DocScrutinizerenable maemo-devel catalog13:06
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TrackerDPPi have one quiz DocScrutinizer !13:06
manzanosDocScrutinizer: uhm the usb host mode package is in that repository?13:06
DocScrutinizeryes13:06
manzanosDocScrutinizer: is not possible to modify the source.list file?13:07
DocScrutinizerdiscouraged way13:07
TrackerDPPDocScrutinizer : if i paid a N900 with maemo backtrack is incorporate ?13:07
manzanosDocScrutinizer: can I ask you why?13:07
DocScrutinizermanzanos: HAM does something on top of source.list I heard13:08
DocScrutinizerTrackerDPP: sorry, can't parse13:09
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TrackerDPPif i get a new Nokia N900 backtrack work it default !13:09
manzanosDocScrutinizer: HAM?13:09
DocScrutinizerHoldon App Manager13:09
DocScrutinizerHildon*13:09
sivangDocScrutinizer: haha "Holdon"13:10
sivangHold-on app manager :)13:10
DocScrutinizerlol13:10
* sivang ROTFLS13:10
DocScrutinizerI claim (C) on that13:10
DocScrutinizer:-D13:10
sivang"I'm holding on, now what?"13:11
sivangkeep holding on.13:11
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sivang:-D13:11
DocScrutinizerfrozen fingers are god for some laugh sometimes13:12
DocScrutinizergood*13:12
sivangindeed13:12
DocScrutinizerTrackerDPP: sorry I don't get it13:12
TrackerDPPis that if I buy a Nokia N900 I backtrack on by default13:12
TrackerDPPif that if I buy a Nokia N900 I backtrack on by default13:13
DocScrutinizerWTF is "backtrack" meaning?13:13
TrackerDPPNeoPwn13:13
TrackerDPPsecurity framwork13:14
TrackerDPPfor pentester Backtrack13:14
DocScrutinizerummpf13:14
DocScrutinizerNo, N900 comes with maemo13:14
TrackerDPPi know13:14
TrackerDPPok13:14
* sivang notes HAM is not so much waiting these days, besides maybe when updating sources, but it was a good laugh :)13:15
sivanginstallation is quite fast, in my taste with pr1.213:15
* DocScrutinizer tries typing with nose, probably easier than using frozen fingers13:16
pupnik_Great news!  http://www.flickr.com/photos/av500/5262764295/13:18
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sivangDocScrutinizer: heh13:18
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: OE aka "linux for stiching machines" \o/13:25
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plr_hey does someone know how to restart some engine that keeps track of call log and conversations?13:26
plr_it has started crashing on me and it's quite annoying to reboot all the time13:27
* DocScrutinizer always frowned on OM basing on OE and its braindamaged concept of kicking out everything including any sane user account, just to re-include it later13:27
pupnikDocScrutinizer: i call it: browser, mplayer, and any game i care to compile13:27
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pupnikit will sit next to my laptop as a "2nd laptop"13:28
DocScrutinizernot to mention the mindboggling receipes13:28
pupnikput irssi on it... or play whatever vids i want to watch, without cluttering my screen13:28
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: I'm questioning the basic concept of OE13:30
DocScrutinizerIt just feels silly to first strip down a standard distro to the absolute bare minimum, even remove user account management et al, just to add everything in later, when you realize your device isn't exactly "embedded" (like a coffeemachine) but actually a mini desktop13:32
DocScrutinizerthat's why I call OE "linux for stitching machines"13:33
DocScrutinizerOM/SHR for example (based on OE) still has no decent user "user" yet, and is running *everything* under root account13:34
DocScrutinizer:-S13:34
DocScrutinizerin maemo we're frowning at hardcoded paths "~user" in some parts of the system - for OE/OM things are *much* worse13:36
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lardmanbut you can rebuild the system, is there some fundamental reason that everything has to run as root?13:36
lardmanI can't really remember what used to happen on the Zaurus13:36
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DocScrutinizerquite a number of apps have no clue whatsoever about dealing with proper permissions at all13:37
DocScrutinizerunder OE/OM13:37
lardmanwell that's a problem with the apps surely?13:38
DocScrutinizerit's resembling "good old" windoze practice where lots of apps fail epically when not run under admin account13:38
DocScrutinizerlardman: sure, but as well is an inherent issue of the whole system config, as app devels aren't even enabled to test their apps in a sane restricted account13:40
lardmanfair enough13:40
DocScrutinizeras there is none13:40
DocScrutinizerrationale always been "we'll deal with that later - first get the core system up and running". Now things reached a state where nobody even dares to touch it13:41
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DocScrutinizerand I have a nightmare vision of dozens of app devels doing a chmod u+s, once anybody tries to target the issue now13:43
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DocScrutinizerexample: mokomaze (a nice game) is using vibrator for tactile feedback. There's no viable concept how this userland app should access the sysfs node controlling the vibrator13:46
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DocScrutinizernobody ever bothered as mokomaze is running with root perms13:47
sleepeebacktrack/neopwn for the n900 is out?  i thought it was in perpetual state of development..13:47
sleepeeif it is, that would be aowwwwsome.13:48
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DocScrutinizersleepee: I thought it's available for N900 since... dunnoages13:50
DocScrutinizersleepee: for the development part - isn't that the usual state for all linuxoid OS?13:51
sleepeegood point13:51
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sleepeeactually, i hadn't checked to see if it was out in a long time..13:52
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chem|stsleepee: I heard hurd is comin' next year...13:52
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DocScrutinizerwell, I'm pretty sure I got an installation img somewhere on my disk, collecting dust13:52
chem|stI love this running...13:53
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sleepeeevery time i go to the site, it would say coming soon...13:53
DocScrutinizereven with some blob that's supposed to enable packet injection on WLAN13:53
sleepeei thought n90o didn't support htat13:54
sleepeethat*13:54
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DocScrutinizeramazing how sometimes topic pop up on a certain point in time - has there been a tmo thread or blogpost mentioning neopwn today?13:55
sleepeehmm... apparently the beta is out13:55
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DocScrutinizerbtw I love the name neopwn, as it's based on Neo Freerunner :-D14:00
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RST38hWell. Moo.14:16
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: sorry, was writing a review.  I don't disagree with any of your points re: OE.  I'm saying the 'heavy lifting' for getting linux to boot is done today. :D14:41
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hueeany chance of getting injection support on n810?14:42
DocScrutinizerpupnik: :-D14:42
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: (I'm busy with digesting http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain)14:43
DocScrutinizerRST38h: moo14:43
pupnikDocScrutinizer: is there any good news regarding PA's cpu use?14:44
DocScrutinizerhuee: use USB hostmode and a proper USB WiFi stick :-D14:44
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: why should?14:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I need your help with uBoot14:44
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: shoot14:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, http://i51.tinypic.com/nez67p.jpg14:44
pupnikDocScrutinizer: because it kills performance on Maemo 5 as I documented 1 year ago14:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, that's my partition table for the eMMC, with MeeGo on /dev/sdb514:45
DocScrutinizerthought as much :-)14:45
pupnikMight as well run android if I want useless bloat sapping 15% of my cpu.14:45
MohammadAG(also made another fat32 partition (64MBs) /dev/sd6 to store the kernel on)14:45
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MohammadAGdo you know how to load the uImage from the eMMC?14:46
DocScrutinizerpupnik: we're all aware of the problem. I'm asking what makes you think there's any movement on the solution side14:46
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: from uBoot? ummm14:46
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I bet it's something along the line "have proper mtdparts definitions; then do a root=mtd5 kernel=mtd6" or sth14:48
pupnikDocScrutinizer: sorry, i misunderstood "why should?"14:48
DocScrutinizernp14:48
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you checked the uBoot docs?14:49
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: NB I know next to nothing about uBoot specifics14:49
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, hmm14:50
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: please post that uboot config file that's supposed to live on uSD14:50
MohammadAGthere isn't one14:51
DocScrutinizeror a link to it14:51
MohammadAG(at least for me)14:51
MohammadAGyou can have one, but it's optional14:51
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: btw I'm not sure uBoot knows about extended partitions14:52
DocScrutinizerif this were uBoot as I know it from OM devices, I'd suggest to place the kernel on /dev/sdb1 as a file14:53
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DocScrutinizerthat's how OM systems on uSD are frequently configured14:54
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DocScrutinizeryou have a (possibly) small fat32 as first partition, to hold the zimage, and a ext[23] for /14:55
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libbenhow can i take screenshot from terminal? n900 dont want to press key combos. want to use sleep 15; blabla blabla14:55
DocScrutinizeriirc uBoot *could* fetch kernel from ext-fs as well, but there's been a problem when mkfs.ext gone from inodesize=128 to 256 as default14:56
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, second problem is, meego's sources are too retarded and need rpm to build a kernel14:56
gggslibben: Ctrl+Shift+P14:56
libbenno14:57
libbenwant to use command14:57
libbencant use buttons14:57
MohammadAGthere isn't a command to take a screenshot14:57
libbeni need terminal command that i can delay with sleep14:57
MohammadAGmake an app14:57
DocScrutinizerlibben: check how load-applet is doing it, also I guess the ctrl-shift-P is sending a dbus signal as well14:57
libbenwell, i could use a script, but that would require python installed14:57
DocScrutinizercheck using dbus-monitor14:58
libbenand i dont want to install full install av python14:58
libbenim no developer14:58
DocScrutinizerlibben: load applet has a delay, when triggering screenshot by clicking the still-cam button in system menu14:59
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ieatlintalternatively, it *should* be possible to do a framebuffer dump and convert the result15:00
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DocScrutinizerlibben: dunno if that's just enough for you to avoid sleep 15 all together15:00
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libbenso can i use load applet and start a delay and then start another program ?15:00
DocScrutinizeryes15:00
libbenill grab that one, thxs15:01
DocScrutinizeryw15:01
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Khertan_Hello everyone !15:03
DocScrutinizerhi Khertan_15:03
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Khertan_Someone know if there is a limit with the size of the swap usable by n900 ?15:05
RST38hno15:05
RST38halthough for practical reasons, 512MB should be enough15:05
Khertan_i ve try to add a 2Gb swap but a cat /proc/meminfo seems to show only 1G15:05
RST38hOh, you mean really large swap?15:05
Khertan_RST38h: here it s for a specfics use case15:06
RST38hThis is ultimately limited by the address space size15:06
Khertan_and will be mount temporary15:06
RST38ha moment15:06
DocScrutinizerKhertan_: you can have multiple swap volumes15:06
DocScrutinizerthey should add up15:07
RST38hKhertan: http://kerneltrap.org/node/245015:07
Khertan_DocScrutinizer: yep this is what i try to do, keeping the default internal one and add a 2Gb partition on the sd15:07
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DocScrutinizermaybe add 2 of 1GB each?15:08
RST38hDoc: He is probably hitting the address size limit15:08
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RST38hMeanwhile: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/15/nokia_e7_slip/15:08
Khertan_I think i'm hitting the address size limit15:09
Khertan_:(15:09
Khertan_so i ll transform my code to do distributed calculation :) ... or less geek cache some information in files ...15:10
Khertan_thx for help :)15:10
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RST38hWhy do you even need to run such a heavy computational code on a tablet?15:11
Khertan_This is funny to see how we can forgot that n900 is after all a phone, and how sometime reality strike use15:11
Khertan_RST38h: because i'm coding it in the train :)15:11
RST38hWhy not use 64bit Linux instead?15:11
RST38hAh15:11
Khertan_at home i code it on my debian 64bits15:12
Khertan_with 16Gb i never got memory problems :)15:12
RST38hShould someone post a "WE WANT 64BIT ARM BASED PHONE FROM NOKIA" on tmo?  =)15:13
Khertan_RST38h: will be worst if we didn't got larger physical memory size :)15:14
DocScrutinizerOL15:14
Khertan_:)15:14
DocScrutinizerLOL15:14
Khertan_0L is good remarks too :)15:14
MohammadAG64bit ARM o_O15:14
gggsKhertan_: can you ssh into your 64-bit at home?15:14
Khertan_gggs: in the subway or in the train it s not really usable :)15:15
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Khertan_connection isn't stable enought15:16
Khertan_i ll wait to come back to home, and code something else :)15:17
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ArGGu^^sivang The new gui is not easy to make I have to make custom gestures for it :/15:30
ArGGu^^And not sure will I succeed making them work :/15:31
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ArGGu^^the swipe gesture in Qt need 3 touch points :/15:32
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ArGGu^^*needs15:32
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libbenhmm15:33
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libbenwhats the webcamera icon for in Load Applet?15:34
ArGGu^^libben Load Applet in what?15:35
libbenn90015:35
ArGGu^^but in what program?15:35
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libbenthe program is load applet15:36
libbenThe load applet provides a status bar plugin that shows the CPU load and memory usage. It has a small menu that allows for easy screen-shot taking.15:36
libbenbut i dont get what the webcam icon is for15:36
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ArGGu^^aa ok I don't have that installed on my n90015:36
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ArGGu^^libben maybe it is for screencasts15:39
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libbenyup15:40
libbenjust cheked mediaplayer15:40
libbenseems like it15:40
libbenbut mediaplayer doesnt play it uå15:40
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libbendo you know how to change wallpaper btw? ive downloaded 4 wallpapers and a rc file if i dont remember wrong. but nothing appears in theme selection15:43
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libbenaah, change background in the edit of desktop15:44
libbenlol15:44
libbenlooked at wrong place =)15:44
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gggshow difficult do you think it'd be to modify an N900 to encrypt calls and re-encode in CELT?15:53
gggsor Speex15:53
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SpeedEvilgggs: Utterly impossible in some cases15:54
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gggshardware, or closed-src softw?15:54
SpeedEvilYou cannot encrypt 'normal' voice calls simply, as the presence of bit errors, and the codecs used means that you end up with essentially crap.15:54
SpeedEvilSIP, or any other call-over-data - sure15:55
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SpeedEvilEssentially crap = 0% of the transmitted data being decodable in ideal conditions.15:55
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BCMMbad enough that good enough CRCs wouldn't leave enough bandwidth?15:56
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derfBCMM: He's saying that you _want_ to allow bit errors.15:57
BCMM?15:57
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derfBecause a bit error is not fatal to an audio codec.15:57
derfBut it is fatal if you've encrypted the data first.15:57
gggshmm, I guess you'd be encoding in speex -> encrypting in AES/* -> encoding & encrypting in GSM -> transmitting15:58
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SpeedEvilgggs: yes - that can't work15:59
SpeedEvilgggs: Basically, the normal voice channel looks like:16:00
SpeedEvilmic -> A/D -> GSM codec -> radio -> bit errors -> radio -> GSM codec -> ISDN line to NOC -> PSTN16:00
SpeedEvilFor a call from a mobile to a landline16:00
SpeedEvilyou have no control over the codecs chosen.16:01
SpeedEvilAnd they are designed to throw away non-voice-like noises16:01
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SpeedEvilThis makes encryption problematic16:01
SpeedEvilIf you do it over data, it's not a problem16:02
ieatlintthat probably also explains why hold music sounds like ass on mobiles16:02
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SpeedEvilyes.16:02
SpeedEvilIt's designed to reproduce what a human vocal system can do - quite specifically - and has models of that in the codec16:03
SpeedEvilAnything else tends to come out very poorly16:03
gggsyea I see the problem, it'd need to be changed below the app layer16:03
SpeedEvilgggs: No, you'd need to convince the whole signal path to go to some encryption friendly mode. Including the bit outside your phone, including the far-end GSM tower and phone16:04
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BCMMit's fun to play various notes down a phone - with a pure tone, the ones that aren't important for voice just get completely lost16:04
SpeedEvilCSD - circuit switched data - sort of is ideal for this - but it tends to be not enabled on most peoples phone.16:04
SpeedEvilAnd expensive or impossible to enable.16:04
SpeedEvilWhich leaves you with encryption over internet - which means you can't use GPRS unless you put up with ~2s delay at times.16:05
SpeedEvilIt's a pain.16:05
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ieatlintheh, even umts has >100ms delays, which is very noticeable16:06
SpeedEvilyes.16:06
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SpeedEvilBut not quite as noticable as the typical delay I get of over 1000ms on gprs16:06
BCMM1 second is enough that people start interrupting each other by accident, and eventually get angry16:07
BCMMseen it on skype, most amusing16:07
ieatlintwell, to argue a useless point, i have to say i've seen 500-700ms round-trip on gprs consistently16:07
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ieatlint150-300ms round trip seems normal (in my experience) for umts... but 75-150ms delays are high, and 250-350ms delays are annoying16:08
ieatlintbut comparable to the old satellite telephone links across continents16:08
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SpeedEvilyeah16:09
SpeedEvilIn practice, you can deal with 2s RTT if you treat it as PTT16:10
SpeedEvilBut...16:10
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gggsBCMM: I know what you mean with Skype, video conferencing is a cute trick to impress old people, but largely a waste of time practically16:11
ieatlintwell, excepting any sort of PTT scenario, you can likely discount any hope of data-based phone calls on EDGE due to the full duplex necessity16:11
gggsvid delay of 2.5sec, audio delay of ~1sec, it's worse than text16:11
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ieatlintUMTS... possible, but somehow strikes me as unreliable and prone to bad delays16:11
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BCMMgggs: heh, yep, old people really, really, love video-conferencing...16:12
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sivangArGGu^^: I see :/16:14
sivangArGGu^^: I'm sure you can make it eventually.16:14
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sivangBCMM: corp people as well16:15
sivangArGGu^^: so you're rewriting in QML?16:15
gggsso in other words, we're stuck with GSM's insecurities, and the only practical way for secure voice comms is VoIP16:16
sivanggggs: if it uses AES then no :-p16:17
MohammadAGX-Fade, ping16:17
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pexiworse than video conferences are recorded video lectures.. and professors love to put that tape rolling year after year :)16:17
sivangpexi: some uni's these re better than lectures themselves16:18
sivangpexi: saddening as may be16:18
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pexitrue16:18
sivangpexi: technion.ac.il no exception :)16:19
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SpeedEvilgggs: Almost.16:19
sivangpexi: in my example16:19
SpeedEvilgggs: There was a paper I saw - that I have lost a link to and can't find that did data over GSM voice16:19
pexii hated being on lectures where they were recording - when some questions arised, no one dared to ask16:20
SpeedEvilgggs: It did it by hooking a vocal tract synth up to a data generator, and on the other end basically a speech recogniser16:20
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SpeedEvilgggs: 1200 bits/s - but a hell of a lot of hastle.16:20
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peetahhi guys16:21
peetahI know this channel is more about maemo than N900 hardware, so ignore me if I'm out of line16:22
peetahDid any of you know about issues with the N900 mmc card reader ?16:22
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gggsSpeedEvil: sounds like a neat hack, but a hack nonetheless16:22
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peetahI've just bought a transcend 16go class 6, and the N900 keeps messing with the ext3 fs16:23
SpeedEvilmessing with how?16:24
peetahthe card is written and read without problems with another reader16:24
SpeedEvilThe stock software does not understand ext316:24
peetahSpeedEvil: it generates a lot of errors16:24
SpeedEvilyou need to mount it manually16:24
SpeedEvilah16:24
SpeedEvilOr at least you did16:24
SpeedEvilread/write errors?16:25
peetahSpeedEvil: I use kernel-power16:25
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peetahafter writing on the card, e2fsck complains a lot16:25
SpeedEvilDo you get any errors?16:26
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SpeedEvilIn syslog16:26
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SpeedEvilyou need to apt-get install syslogd and then kill -HUP it when started up16:26
SpeedEvilat least I did16:26
SpeedEvildmesg also16:26
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peetahSpeedEvil: the mmc card is recognized and the ext3 partition is mounted16:28
SpeedEvilHmm - I wonder why my MMC isn't16:29
peetahbut when I untar the NITDroid files for example, then the fs is corrupted16:29
peetahso I tried to install everything from another reader, put the MMC back in the N90016:30
peetahit boots NITDroid, until it attempts to write on the card again16:30
SpeedEvilFirst step is to see if anything is popping up in syslog.16:30
peetahthen a lot of IO errors are printed on screen16:30
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SpeedEvilWas this a card bought through legitimate vendors, or ebay/...16:31
peetahamazon16:31
SpeedEvilamazon themselves, or a vendor on amazon16:31
MohammadAGmeh, QPushButton doesn't emit a signal when the button is held16:31
SpeedEvilSee http://www.nickscipio.com/pod/2010/02/05/bunny-stocking/ for some interesting microSD problems16:32
SpeedEvilerr16:32
SpeedEvilnot that16:32
SpeedEvildamn16:32
SpeedEvilnsfw16:32
peetahand again, it works perfectly with another reader16:32
SpeedEvilhttp://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=91816:32
SpeedEvilI'm not saying it doesn't, it's just dodgy SDs can have wierd failure modes.16:33
SpeedEvilEspecially if devices try to push them to their spec16:33
peetah:D16:33
MohammadAGalterego, can you help with this one?16:33
peetahnice hobby of yours16:33
SpeedEvilThe latter link is a deconstruction of a microSD failure due to grey market parts16:33
MohammadAGalterego, I'm adding a media player control widget to mediabar, but it should only show when the media player button is held16:34
SpeedEvilI have the bad habit of just letting awesomebar complete on a strung, then cop/pasting it without looking enough16:34
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* MohammadAG looks at SpeedEvil's link, pondering if he should click it16:36
SpeedEvilIt may contain breasts. Nothing too serious though.16:36
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SpeedEvilThe second one is a forensic examination of microSDs16:37
retro|czJe tu nějáký čech s evropskou verzí N900 ?16:37
MohammadAGEnglish only16:37
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, WTF indeed (first link) :P16:38
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peetahthe first one is nothing that could hurt someone here :)16:38
peetahI'll check the details shown on the second link, but I don't think this applies here16:38
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trxhmm, does anyone know how to open (a function or whatever) that window that opens when you press Fn+Sym (character list) ?16:40
trxor at least, suggest where should i look for such a thing...16:41
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MohammadAGtrx, there's no dbus way of doing it16:43
MohammadAGso I suggest looking at hildon-input-method's headers16:43
trxty16:43
trxmaybe im better off just making one myself16:44
trxas im using gtk216:44
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pupnikDec 14, 2010 "In a landmark decision issued today in the criminal appeal of U.S. v. Warshak, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the government must have a search warrant before it can secretly seize and search emails stored by email service providers"   http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/breaking-news-eff-victory-appeals-court-holds16:49
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SpeedEvilpupnik: yeah - saw that earlier.16:51
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gggspupnik: wow, really?16:51
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BCMMthe word "secretly" is important here - they can probably do it anyway...16:54
GAN900pupnik, betcha it goes to SCOTUS and Sotomayor is the deciding opinion to reverse it.16:54
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pupnikGAN900: maybe, but it's a victory for now.16:57
GAN900pupnik, assuming anybody actually pays attention to the court decision.16:58
* GAN900 frankly doubts it.16:58
pupnikWe'll see. :)   I see positive changes in attitudes and thinking recently.16:59
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MohammadAGmain.cpp:5: error: undefined reference to `vtable for watchSlider' wtf does this mean :/17:01
manzanoshi again17:01
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peetahSpeedEvil: here is the syslog output http://pastebin.com/G7RXeaXz17:07
SpeedEvilI would try looking up the card statuses17:08
SpeedEvilOr even submitting a bug17:08
ArGGu^^sivang I have not yet started making the custom gestures but I think I'm not going to use QML for it.17:09
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peetahSpeedEvil: so you think there is still a chance that it may be a software issue rather than a hardware problem ?17:10
SpeedEvilI suspect it's a wierd timing issue.17:10
SpeedEvilIt could be hardware.17:11
SpeedEvilIf that hardware is the n900, or the SD is another question17:11
SpeedEvilIf I could freely return the SD, I would, and get another brand.17:11
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peetahSpeedEvil: ok thanks for your help17:12
SpeedEvilGood luck.17:13
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Nomawhich is the best spotify client for n900?17:16
DocScrutinizer(ctrl-FN popup) learnt today it doesn't work in ovi maps search location input field17:19
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DocScrutinizer51(SD card IO errors) May I remark there have been patches to the SD IF driver in PR1.317:22
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MohammadAGdoes anyone want/care about a daemon to lock the screen whenever the keyboard is closed?17:23
DocScrutinizerumm, nope. I'd do that with dbus-scripting17:24
DocScrutinizerjust an additional 3 lines of shellscript to the file playing swooshsound on sliding kbd out17:25
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MohammadAGwell, if anyone does (this was more of a daemon practice thingy) http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/slide2lock17:25
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DocScrutinizerbtw screen actually locks immediately, if you haven't touched it since it unlocked on sliding out the kbd17:27
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DocScrutinizeralas it also stops that if you typed anything on kbd17:28
MohammadAGthis locks it whether or not you touched it17:29
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MohammadAGactually, ignore that, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/Qt-examples/slide2lock/17:29
MohammadAGwith sources and all ^17:30
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mikki-kunis there somewhere a website where you explain said app :)17:39
mikki-kuncause the readme, if that really is all it really does, does indicate that closed keyboards will prohibit use of touch, disregarding if you receive a call or not and want to accept it e.g.17:40
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MohammadAGerr, huh?17:40
mikki-kundoes it prohibit the use of touch as long as the keyboard is closed?17:41
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MohammadAGno, it only locks the screen, same as the lock switch does17:41
mikki-kunahhhh, so an auto-lock function? :o17:41
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mikki-kunand it can be opened by the small slider on the right side of the dev?17:42
MohammadAGsimilar to Symbian phones with a keyboard/slider, you can make it lock the screen whenever the keyboard is closed17:42
MohammadAGyes17:42
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MohammadAGseems to have been requested here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4850417:44
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mikki-kunsorry, was just again lost in a _book_ (that is the first time in years!)17:56
mikki-kunand kudos for that from me :)17:57
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hrwhow to discharge n900: connect it by usb cable to underpowered usb hub17:57
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rm_worklol, pain18:00
rm_workremind me to not do that, ever18:00
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mikki-kunhrw: i you want it to discharge fast? turn of wireless power management, OC, let flashvideos run or run an emulator while making heavy traffic over 3G and have gps on... don't forget bluetooth for your ps3 controller when playing games and have the speakers turned to max18:21
mikki-kunwill give you an hour or two before it dies =p18:21
* MohammadAG empties his battery in one hour without all of those18:21
mikki-kunwe were talking about genuine batteries, not those rip-offs from china18:22
mikki-kun*checking where his battery comes from*18:22
MohammadAGgenuine :P18:22
alteregoAnd plug into TV?18:22
mikki-kunohhh... it states china18:22
mikki-kun:D18:22
* MohammadAG got a new battery cover18:22
mikki-kuni don't think tv-out is that much of a battery hogger18:22
MohammadAGcan't put it on till I get a B assy, they refused to sell it :/18:23
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mikki-kunconstantly lit lcd on the other hand surely is18:23
MohammadAGactually18:23
mikki-kunB assy?18:23
mikki-kunembassy?!18:23
MohammadAGjust connect a hub with a flash and an optical mouse18:23
MohammadAGthen fire up VBUS18:23
mikki-kunWTF you want that for?!18:23
MohammadAGumm18:23
MohammadAGit's the part of the body that includes the camera lens/power button/ etc18:24
rm_workB assembly?18:24
rm_workbut i don't know what that means either18:24
mikki-kunahhhh18:24
rm_workwait, do they sell better batteries for n900 now? :P18:24
MohammadAGhttp://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N90018:24
MohammadAGCTRL + F N900 B-COVER ASSY 25313418:24
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MohammadAGalterego, is there a way to get a QPushButton send a signal when held? :)18:25
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MohammadAG<MohammadAG> alterego, I'm adding a media player control widget to mediabar, but it should only show when the media player button is held18:25
alteregoSure, "pressed" ?18:25
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alteregoOtherwise, inherit and override mousePressEvent18:26
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mikki-kunhas anybody here a sports strap for his n900?18:26
MohammadAGalterego, I so hate that18:26
MohammadAGalterego, isn't pressed() emitted with clicked()?18:27
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alteregoDunno, try it.18:30
alteregoNo18:30
alteregoShould be when it's pressed18:30
alteregoand released when it's released18:31
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DocScrutinizerwhile clicked is pressed+released only18:49
MohammadAGyeah, but when you click a button it's pressed and released18:49
MohammadAGdoesn't that mean both pressed and released + clicked() are emitted?18:50
DocScrutinizerwtf is /dev/shm/sem.nokiacal, or /dev/shm for that purpose (it has a max size of 65MB :-o)18:50
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: should18:50
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DocScrutinizerat least as I understand it18:50
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trxOnClick activates when onMouseUp18:51
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DocScrutinizertrx: that's what I meant - might add "on same button" (it won't fire if you mousedown on a button, then drag outside of button, then mouseup)18:53
trxyeap18:53
trxthat is how i know that its on mouse up event18:54
DocScrutinizerquite a number of apps use mouseDown instead of click, which is basically wrong for anything except stopwatches18:55
scoobertronis there any way of getting desktop command execution widget widgets to be more than 10 lines high?  I want one to be the height of the screen.18:56
scoobertronor to change the font size for that matter.18:56
trxalso, if you use on mouse down for a "loop event" it will flood it...18:57
trxsame as when you hold a keyboard key in a text field18:58
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DocScrutinizerhehe19:05
DocScrutinizerwtf is /dev/shm/sem.nokiacal, or /dev/shm for that purpose (it has a max size of 65MB :-o ), anybody?19:05
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: we're to good to tmo :-P19:06
DocScrutinizertoo*19:06
MohammadAGlol19:07
* MohammadAG is trying to understand what means what here http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/0004-Nokia-RX-51-aka-N900-support.patch19:07
javispedromorning19:10
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: what's unclear?19:15
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: toldya you need that boot.scr file, and edit it to boot from eMMC19:16
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MohammadAGhow to make it load from the eMMC19:17
MohammadAGI'm not sure where the uSD is set19:17
MohammadAGhmm, meego uses tracker apparently19:17
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ShadowJKallegedly it "doesnt work" without it19:18
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yes I know, but the boot.scr file would be on the microSD, not the eMMC19:18
DocScrutinizeryes, that's hardcoded to uBoot19:18
DocScrutinizerI always thought that's a ... well poor idea19:19
MohammadAGso it's not maemo specific?19:19
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DocScrutinizerit's N900-uBoot specific19:19
MohammadAGthought so19:19
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DocScrutinizer+"loadbootscript=fatload mmc 0 ${loadaddr} boot.scr\0" \19:20
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ShadowJKthis is pure speculation, but normally things aren't hardcoded, but stored in the uboot environment. However, I don't htink there's any suitable writeable space on N900 without complete repartitioning of the nand, which is kinda hard to do online, and probably nobody remembers how whatever makes the nand image actually works anyway, so it probably got compiled into uboot instead19:21
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DocScrutinizerfor weird reasons on early boot mmc0 is uSD and mmc1 is eMMC19:21
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: CAL19:22
MohammadAGthat's even more problematic with meego DocScrutinizer19:22
DocScrutinizerwhy?19:22
MohammadAGif a uSD is present, it's mmcblk0, and the eMMC is mmblk1, if a uSD isn't present, the eMMC is mmcblk019:22
ShadowJKlol19:22
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MohammadAGwhich is why I'm going to give UUID a go19:22
ShadowJKit's missing the scripts for identifying and giving them consistent names19:23
MohammadAGshould work on 2.6.3519:23
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I mentioned some days ago the CAL structure really looks to me like what I recall the uBoot env partition looks alike19:23
MohammadAGoh nice19:23
dnearyI'm lost with a lot of these bugs19:23
ShadowJKCAL is of course full of other crap and nobody knows how it works or where it starts or ends :)19:23
dnearyJust getting it in front of the right person is difficult19:23
MohammadAGI can't find the damn UUID from Maemo cause it doesn't support btrfs19:23
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (if a uSD ) ack19:23
dnearyandre__, About?19:23
javispedroMohammadAG: note that afaik UUID rootfs requires a initrd19:23
ShadowJKyes.19:24
MohammadAGmeh, that's out of the window then19:24
andre__dneary, hi19:24
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MohammadAGShadowJK, imo, the kernel needs a patch to always give consistent names19:25
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* SpeedEvil must remember to swapoff before unplugging sda.19:25
MohammadAGright now, my method of getting MeeGo on the eMMC is unstable due to these two things, uBoot not loading from the eMMC, and naming19:25
libbenis there any IR app for the n900 ? that can record the signal from other remote?19:25
dnearySo - how do you handle this - like in bug 3919, where there's no indication of what wpeditor does, its author doesn't have a bz account, and the original reporter is probably long since gone19:25
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/3919 Explain the usage of wpeditor19:25
SpeedEvillibben: no.19:25
MohammadAGlibben, the hardware doesn't support receiving IR19:25
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SpeedEvillibben: there is no hardware reciever19:25
libbenok19:25
dnearyDo you try to get the information as best you can, or just throw your hands up & close as WONTFIX?19:26
GAN900dneary, isn't that Midgard's WYSIWYG module?19:26
DocScrutinizerlibben: not possible19:26
GAN900dneary, moreinfo tag19:26
GAN900close after 6 months.19:26
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ShadowJKI believe more in the debian approach. For example if I plug in a ethernet device, it becomes eth1. I plug in another, it becomes eth2. I remove them both, and plug in the second one. It's eth2. I have eth0 and eth2 and no eth1. Debian remembers device serial numbers and creates a consistent naming for them the first time you plug something in19:27
DocScrutinizergnaexactly19:27
dnearyGAN900, Is it?19:27
DocScrutinizerGAN900: ^^19:27
SpeedEvilWhich leads to comedic approaches with random MAC numbers19:27
libbenso what i need is a harmony remote or something like that, and record my remote with taht and then try to export the file and add it to the IR app19:27
GAN900dneary, that's as far as I can remember from years ago.19:28
dnearyGAN900, If it were, I'd be more confident of being able to get someone who could explain (a) how to include the widget in an application and (b) how to interact with it19:28
GAN900dneary, find bergie and torture him until he tells you.19:28
dnearyI just end up being frustrated it's assigned to me, when I think about it (seems most of the bugs assigned to me, I can't do much about)19:28
GAN900dneary, clearly your job title is too vague. :P19:29
GAN900"easybugmaster"19:29
javispedrois wpeditor oss at least?19:29
dnearyGAN900, :)19:29
dnearyjavispedro, Yup19:29
dnearymodest depends on it19:29
* javispedro realizes "wp" means "WordPad"19:30
GAN900dneary, ah, most be Nokia's silly text editor widget.19:30
GAN900s/most/must19:30
MohammadAGor wordpress :P19:30
RST38hBTW, will this work with Maemo: http://www.slashgear.com/hidden-gamepad-underneath-chameleon-x-1-mouse-13119252/ ?19:30
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GAN900andre__, those images for maemo.org and Nokia suck.19:31
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: (CAL) I think a second look at it - with uBoot env structure in your mind - might yield better results than the initial investigations done 2..3 years ago19:31
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: read out raw CAL partition, try to decode it using uBoot env algo19:32
DocScrutinizersee where you get19:32
* andre__ reads the backlog as dneary did not ping19:32
dnearyandre__, By the way, I didn't find any package called "osso-notes"19:32
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andre__huh? it's installed here on 20.2010.36-2 according to dpkg -l19:34
andre__GAN900, what images?19:34
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I don't see too much of a problem with changing uBoot to fetch boot.scr from eMMC. Either it works only with uSD inserted, or it works only without uSD inserted (probably the less sensible case), but anyway nothing bad will happen if it can't find boot.scr, it will just boot as usual19:38
ShadowJKSo I heard you get an uboot prompt if you have no uSD inserted?19:39
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: also iirc uBoot can easily be convinced to look at several places for a file, and use (dunno) either the first or last one it finds19:39
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sure19:39
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DocScrutinizeryou probably could even enter the raw commands to boot from eMMC there19:39
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ShadowJKsure19:40
MohammadAGindeed you can19:40
MohammadAGbut I don't know the commands to try that :P19:40
ShadowJKAnd if you had everything ready to go for a reflash, you could even try change the predefined boot command and then type "saveenv" and see if it sticks :P19:40
DocScrutinizerlook at the area I pointed you at19:40
DocScrutinizerit won't, also you will have to be lightning fast X-P19:41
MohammadAG Then the19:41
MohammadAGbootscripts will attempt to load uImage or boot.scr from a fat filesystem19:41
MohammadAGon MMC1 partition 3. If this fails, the appended kernel image will be19:41
MohammadAGbooted using the stored ATAGs.19:41
DocScrutinizeras mrmoku not yet has tought uBoot to play nice with watchdog19:41
* MohammadAG wakes up19:42
MohammadAGmmc 0 means mmcblk0? o_O19:42
DocScrutinizerI guess yes19:42
MohammadAGwell that's easy to edit then19:42
* MohammadAG gives it a shot19:42
DocScrutinizeryep, indeed19:42
DocScrutinizero/ ->TV19:43
MohammadAGHouse? :P19:44
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.3sat.de/nano/19:46
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* javispedro ponders about QT_RX71_MULTITOUCH19:49
luke-jrjavispedro: is it an ugly hack that doesn't work sanely with X input?19:50
alteregoYeah, noticed that a while back19:50
javispedroluke-jr: that has gotten into upstream qt, yes.19:50
alteregoIts' been there for ages apparently.19:50
* javispedro always though the entire mt stack is fscked up19:50
javispedro*thought19:50
javispedros/mt/multitouch19:50
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RST38hRX71 hasmultitouch! yeaaaa! :)19:51
RST38hWait. Where is RX71? =)19:51
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MohammadAGwasn't the RX71 in the N8x0 kernel source too?19:53
RST38hMaemo5 kernel sources, with RX5119:54
* RST38h seems to have heard that it is some kind of a development board, nothing ofparticular interest19:54
RST38hMay be wrong though.19:54
MohammadAGyeah, I know it was there, was just asking if it was in the N8x0's kernel too19:54
MohammadAGcause if it was, it's a myth19:54
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RST38hYoohoo, more riots!19:56
javispedrowhere, tmo or real world? :)19:56
RST38hIRL19:57
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DocScrutinizermeh, RX71 is oooooold19:59
DocScrutinizerthe string19:59
DocScrutinizerit appeared in kbd mapping quite some time ago19:59
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DocScrutinizerand it probably was a development board at that time20:00
DocScrutinizerI'm quite sure it's N9 nowadays20:01
* javispedro reads "/* Including math.h is not bad. It may become useful somehow */" and spits coffee out20:01
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DocScrutinizerROTFL20:02
DocScrutinizerWTF?20:03
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DocScrutinizer#include *20:04
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DocScrutinizerlinker will sort out XP20:04
javispedrothe worst part is that I'm now 95% certain he's an actual professional coder20:05
DocScrutinizernokia?20:05
javispedrono, a new friend I'm making in the preenv thread on tmo20:05
DocScrutinizerhehehe20:06
RST38hjavis: really? may be useful?20:06
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javispedroRST38h: math.h or the coder? =)20:06
ShadowJKBad: someone posted a question with this level of language. Worse: Someone replied with helpful info in equally eloquent language. So bad it becomes almost awesome: it became a thread full of people talking like that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=89724520:06
RST38hjavis: math.h, I am decided about the coder20:07
* javispedro laughs20:07
RST38hShadowJK: Not the first lemming party on tmo, and they have become a norm lately20:07
javispedro"mp4 vedio formats" -- is that some kind of hard core porn?20:08
RST38hShadowJK: But, look at it this way: they are having fun? -- check, they are helping each other? -- check20:08
RST38hWhat else do you want?20:08
ShadowJK:)20:08
derfI want a pony.20:08
derfMade of cake.20:08
RST38hhere, have a pony20:09
RST38hmade of a real pony cake20:09
Venemohi guys20:09
derfNote that this is distinctly different from a cake made of pony. I don't want that at all.20:10
lcukRST38h, agreed about your checklist20:10
lcukthats important20:10
lcuktry reading comments on http://icanhascheezburger.com/20:11
lcukbut note people enjoy it all the same20:11
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Venemohi lcuk o/ :)20:11
Venemolcuk: how are you?20:11
lcuki am better than yesterday, but not as good as tomorrow.20:12
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Venemoyeah, me too20:13
Venemolcuk: I wish you a speedy recovery :)20:13
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* DocScrutinizer throws cakes made by ponies at channel20:18
* javispedro yawns20:18
javispedrodiscuss something, dammit.20:18
javispedrohm20:19
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I ultimately request Nokia to open up NOLO and CAL20:19
DocScrutinizerhow's about that - for discussion?20:20
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: I'm sure we can accurately predict time until WONTFIX with a nine nine's accuracy.20:20
DocScrutinizeryep20:20
RST38hjavis: suggest a topic20:21
DocScrutinizermeh, short discussion20:21
* javispedro ponders rescuing yesterday's pulseaudio bashing but thinks better of it20:21
DocScrutinizer*burp*20:21
RST38hsuggest a POSITIVE topic20:22
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pupnik2010 saw more apps for maemo than 200920:22
DocScrutinizernew project: hostmode-addon-kernel-drivers20:23
RST38h2009 saw  more maemo5 apps than 2008!20:23
DocScrutinizerplus support20:23
javispedro2009+2010 probably saw more maemo apps combined than the 200[0-8]20:23
RST38h1900 saw no maemo apps20:23
DocScrutinizer2010 seen more maemo apps than 2012 will20:24
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RST38hthere will still be symbian apps in 201220:24
* DocScrutinizer yawns20:24
MohammadAGRST38h, I wonder if there be people in 201220:24
RST38hyes. some.20:25
DocScrutinizereeeew20:25
VenemoMohammadAG: why not?20:25
DocScrutinizerwhat a letdown20:25
javispedrodamn spoilers20:25
MohammadAGoh right, china has ships to help us escape the apocalypse20:25
RST38hDon't expect it to be fast and painless.20:25
MohammadAGthat movie made me chuckle20:25
MohammadAGVenemo, ever watched 2012?20:26
VenemoMohammadAG: no, but I wanted to20:26
* javispedro notes everyone is skipping 2011, where predictions would be more interesting20:26
javispedrowill it be the year where fremantle dies?20:26
VenemoMohammadAG: I heard about the "we'll die in 2010" theory, I find it ridiculous20:26
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MohammadAGVenemo, name one sane person who doesn't :P20:26
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: how's something to die that's born dead?20:26
javispedrotouché.20:27
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DocScrutinizerthough that even more applies to harmattan20:27
javispedroso, it will be the year harmattan dies.20:27
VenemoMohammadAG: hehe20:27
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DocScrutinizerwe can bet on the month it does20:28
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DocScrutinizerI'd but my chips on May20:28
DocScrutinizerput*20:28
* MohammadAG wanted an N91020:28
lardmanso you reckon it will be released before May then?20:29
MohammadAGwith 6GB RAM and an 8GHz CPU20:29
* DocScrutinizer arms his marker and writes a fat bold 910 on MohammadAG's N90020:29
Venemonah20:29
MohammadAGYAY, 8GHz!!!!1!20:29
MohammadAGhmm, it's a bit slow20:29
DocScrutinizerlardman: I never said it will be released20:29
* MohammadAG overclocks to 24GHz20:29
VenemoI want an N970... N900 hw in N97's body20:30
javispedroMohammadAG: remove the stylus. remove the stylus silo. overclock. upgrade to n9 complete!20:30
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Venemojavispedro: plus, remove the keyboard :P20:30
javispedrothat's yet to be seen.20:30
* MohammadAG replaces plastic screen with glass20:30
MohammadAGjavispedro, why isn't my screen working anymore?20:30
lardmanI'd just like something with a bigger screen, decent gps and e-compass20:31
* javispedro pointfully notes that there are resistive glass screens20:31
* MohammadAG stabs a gorilla20:31
javispedrothey just have a the small resistive layer ontop.20:31
MohammadAG... screen20:31
DocScrutinizerheh, that Dell phone I've seen yesterday in TV, that had a lovely formfactor20:31
lardmanStreak?20:31
RST38hDell Streak?20:31
MohammadAGstreak?20:31
javispedrostrike?20:31
* MohammadAG wants a steak20:32
javispedro(that was intentional :) )20:32
DocScrutinizerno idea, just looked like 7" screen20:32
* lardman is waiting for Doc to run down the street20:32
RST38h5"20:32
luke-jrjavispedro: there is no upstream Qt for Nokia -.-20:32
RST38hpocketable20:32
* DocScrutinizer runs down the street, to get some food from butcher20:33
javispedroluke-jr: touché. I thought such horrible hacks would be kept to the qt-maemo5 branch.20:33
DocScrutinizero/20:33
* javispedro has been lately pondering getting a palm pre 2.20:34
lardmanLinuxy?20:34
javispedronot to be a spammer, but I've realized that the fact they use js for system apps makes them from a pragmatic point of view more hackable.20:35
MohammadAGjavispedro, spammer!20:35
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javispedroI've already done stupid changes to the palm's music player (put the song title here, merge same title different artist albums into one) that would probably require me to disassemble the n900 media player.20:36
* ptl learning git20:36
lardmanjavispedro: small screen on that thing20:36
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javispedrolardman: and lores..20:37
RST38hpre sucks20:37
* lardman is tempted by a Dell Streak, but slightly worried about lack of kb and lack of opengl drivers for Meego20:37
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RST38htiny screen, sluggish, unusable keyboard20:38
lardman1GHz + 512MB?!20:38
javispedroRST38h: same thoughs (save for keyboard), albeit I feel the beefier cpu on the pre2 would help20:38
* RST38h will use N900 for now, will see next year20:38
RST38hIf Nokia does not deliver anything promising, Android it is20:38
lardmanindeed, is a real shame20:39
VenemoRST38h: android is crap20:39
RST38hI know20:39
lardmanthe Android offerings are pretty good hw-wise though, don;t really fancy having to write Java code though20:39
* javispedro also thinks Android is crap20:39
javispedroRST38h: on the pre you got PulseAudio, the devil you know! ;)20:39
lardmanlooks pretty and has good services20:39
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Venemolardman: believe me, android development sux20:39
javispedroRST38h: probably half of the reason it is sluggish =)20:40
lardmanVenemo: hence my desire to buy something that is Meego-able eventually20:40
Venemolardman: android = non-standard java with non-standard bytecode etc20:40
* lcuk pleased to see Nokia Booklet trying to get meego capable20:40
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lcukmanaging it for that one device opens up a whole suit of similar ones too :)20:41
javispedrolcuk: it was just missing gma500 drivers aiui?20:41
lcukyes, it is20:41
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lcukcommunity devs are involved and we are trying to get him some test hardware over20:41
javispedrogma500 driver done by community devs? O.o20:42
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lcukjavispedro, no20:42
lcukforwarded and ported and advanced20:42
javispedroah...20:42
lcuktheres videos of meego on joggler for instance (old 1.0 ones)20:42
lcukif we can get the drivers lined up correctly they should become normally available20:43
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Venemois there something like #ifdef in a debian control file?20:45
lcukVenemo, you can do conditionals20:45
MohammadAGnot that I know of20:45
lcukand afaik, you could base it on things, hold on I use it for something20:45
* javispedro uses m4 for that task20:46
MohammadAGeven for build depends:?20:46
lardmanVenemo: what do you need to do?20:46
lardmanunix {}20:46
javispedroMohammadAG: nope20:46
MohammadAGthought so20:46
* MohammadAG uses shlibs20:46
lcukhttps://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/master/src/Makefile#L1220:46
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lcukMohammadAG, build depends have their own pre categorisation available20:47
Venemoif I wanna package the same app for Maemo and for Debian/Ubuntu, I would want the Maemo one to use some Maemo-specific libs, this is why I'm asking20:47
Venemolcuk: not makefile, control file20:47
Venemolcuk: makefile is autogenerated by qmake, so I wouldn't touch it20:47
javispedroVenemo: they are the same20:47
MohammadAGoh, libqtm-sensors?20:47
lcukVenemo, ah20:47
javispedroep20:48
javispedroVenemo: disregard that20:48
Venemojavispedro: no. debian/control is not the same as a makefile.20:48
VenemoMohammadAG: yeah, that would be one20:48
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* MohammadAG has no idea20:50
MohammadAGwhy not use two control files?20:50
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Venemothen how do I tell dpkg-buildpackage which one to use? does it even have such an option?20:51
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lcukVenemo, are you wanting qtm-sensors to only be on arm?20:51
MohammadAGno, I meant like, why not have two different source directories for ubuntu and meego?20:52
MohammadAGerr, maemo20:52
* lcuk has "libosso-dev [!i386]" for such a thing20:52
javispedrothat would not work for debian vs maemo though20:53
javispedrothere's just no reasonable fully-automated way20:53
lcukwhich combined with the other part in the makefile ensures that osso is only imported and used on maemo20:53
MohammadAGindeed, since ubuntu might be running on an arm device20:53
lcuknope javispedro20:53
Venemolcuk: yes20:53
MohammadAGVenemo's app should run on a pandaboard, or a beagleboard20:54
MohammadAGso setting libqtm-sensors [armel] isn't the best way20:54
VenemoI would rather distinguish by OS and not architecture... although the latter is better than nothing20:54
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javispedrothere's just no automated way20:55
Venemojavispedro: :(20:55
javispedroiirc you should be able to partially do it with the "source" rule in a 3.0 debian package,20:56
javispedrobut ofc that is a nogo in maemo... so far.20:56
MohammadAG3.0?20:57
javispedrothe m4 or cpp suggestion is still valid, but you will need to issue a regeneration of it before making the source package20:57
javispedroMohammadAG: http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.020:57
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javispedroautobuilder has partial support for them because of the squeeze toolchain stuff, but probably not the entire stack20:58
lardmanVenemo: use Boolean operators in the depends field20:59
Venemolardman: could you show me an example?21:00
lardmanVenemo: you can use | certainly: libebook-dev | maemo-version (<5.0)21:01
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lardmanBuild-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libzbar-dev, libdmtx-dev, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-dev | maemo-version (<5.0), libconic0-dev,21:02
lardman                libgstreamer0.10-dev, libosso-dev, libgtk2.0-dev,21:02
lardman                libgconf2-dev, libglib2.0-dev, libebook-dev | maemo-version (<5.0), libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev,21:02
lardman                libcurl3-dev, mce-dev | maemo-version (<5.0), libmodest-dbus-client-dev, libhildonfm2-dev,21:02
lardman                libqt4-dev, mbarcode-dev, libgq-gconf-dev, libconic0-dev21:02
NooBmonk3ySpaaaaaaaaaaaaam lols21:02
lardmanoops, didn't come out so well21:02
NooBmonk3yevening alls :)21:02
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lcukheya NooBmonk3y21:04
Venemolardman: thx21:04
Venemohi NooBmonk3y21:04
lcuki wanted you for something, but I can't recall what21:04
lcukperhaps it was about my memory loss21:04
lcukbut I can't remember21:05
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Venemohm21:07
* Jaffa sighs. Long day.21:07
lardmanVenemo: whether you can do: some-maemo-only-package & maemo-version, I don't know21:07
Venemook, thanks lardman21:07
lardmanhi Jaffa21:07
Venemoother question: what's the point of there being so many versions of GPL and LGPL, many of which are incompatible21:07
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lardmanVenemo: i.e. (and you probably realised it already) that depends line is adding libs that are for maemo-version>=5.021:08
Venemoit is ridiculous that a free software license can be incompatible with another free software license that basically says the same things21:08
Venemolardman: yeah, I thought so21:08
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* lardman gives up on the idea of switching camera res on the fly21:09
lardmanfor the time being anyay21:10
* lardman moves onto (dis|en)abling plugins21:14
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lardmanI've got to say I'm displeased with the implementation of MECARD encoding into QR codes one finds on the interweb21:19
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MohammadAGhmm, how do I add auto line breaks to thunderbird?21:19
lardmanRewrap?21:19
MohammadAGty21:21
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RST38hlardman: tried reading DHL routing stamp, mbardcode could not handle it21:24
RST38hlardman: weird construct, looks like qrcode, but not spatial markers, uses vertical/horizontal axis lines instead21:24
MohammadAGlardman, actually, it doesn't work :P21:25
lardmanMohammadAG: sorry21:25
lardmanRST38h: just looking to see what that might be21:25
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lardmanRST38h: can you post a pic?21:27
lardmanI can't work out what it might be21:27
RST38hlardman: it is at work21:27
RST38hlardman: is a business mail piece too, so I better mail you the pic21:27
NooBmonk3yhey Venemo , hey lcuk  :)21:27
lcukhow much info is in the barcode21:27
RST38hdepends21:27
lcukis it just delivery number?21:27
RST38hthe DHL code?21:28
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RST38hit is not a barcode to begin with, more like 2D qrcode21:28
lcukmind you, yeah even after delivery its still got all info on it21:28
lcuk(using dhl tracker on a package from last week21:28
* lcuk has waybill stuff for it21:28
lardmanRST38h: cool, mail away21:30
lardmanI will have a look at the pdf417 stacked 1D barcode stuff in ZBar next week, he says21:30
lardman:)21:30
MohammadAGlardman, it kinda ruined the email's format too :P21:31
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lardmanMohammadAG: another one of those occasions I wish I'd just kept quiet then ;)21:32
MohammadAGlardman, hmm, the mailing list formatted it correctly, no worries I guess ;)21:33
MohammadAGMohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh <!--3 01292339083/20101214150443.7D2407BA39C@c-in3ws--02-09.sv2.lotuslive.com- -->  <-- wtf?21:33
RST38hthat is going to be your email address from now on21:34
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MohammadAGRST38h, looks so cool, I wonder what uni forms will think of it21:36
RST38hwill mistype it, most likely21:36
lardmannah it'll get automatically spam filtered I imagine21:37
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RST38h"...a weapons check is advised, followed by donning of riot gear and gas masks treated to resist type-14 neurotoxin. Civilians are to be told the riot gear is part of a theme night, and issued nonfunctional decorative goggles if they wish to participate."21:39
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ioanhi. so is that flash 10.1 from ti.com useable on N900?22:17
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Juozapashi22:20
Juozapasthere is any pc suite for using n900 call / sms writing functions from linux computer via bluetooth ?22:20
DocScrutinizerioan: yes22:21
ioanDocScrutinizer: can I have it too? :-)22:22
DocScrutinizerJuozapas: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control22:22
DocScrutinizerioan: dunno - if you got it, would you please share to me?22:23
Juozapasyeah but im looking for some program to control my phone22:23
ioanDocScrutinizer: I made the request, but no answer yet.22:23
DocScrutinizerso what do you think it is I pointed you at?22:24
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I think he wants a GUI ;)22:24
DocScrutinizerMEH22:25
MohammadAGioan, it's for board developers only, not sure how TI pick those, apparently, it's random22:25
DocScrutinizerit IS a GUI, with a lot of nice Icons called characters22:25
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DocScrutinizeryou need a wrapper app called errr... PuTTY22:26
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Juozapasyeah i want some gui :)22:26
ioanMohammadAG: well, I got from them some ICs samples before, maybe that qualifies me as a board developer ;-)22:26
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DocScrutinizerioan: depends. If you used a Company address before and now, it sure will22:28
`Ika_Musumehumm question, befor i install it , nitdroid can use any android app right ?22:28
ioanDocScrutinizer: yeah, I used the same account for both requests... and the account uses my company's infos22:29
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* RST38h has seen a E7 today23:09
RST38hWell, an E7 mockup at the Nokia store.23:09
DocScrutinizermeh, where's javispedro?23:10
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pupnikspain23:24
DocScrutinizeryeap23:25
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DocScrutinizerwhatever, wherever...23:25
DocScrutinizerwe could teach uBoot to store envs at arbitrary location23:26
DocScrutinizere.g marking some blocks as bad at a fixed location in eMMC23:26
meceRST38h, e7 is shiny.23:27
DocScrutinizeror simply write back to boot.scr23:27
jacekowskiit's all about atags as somebody said23:27
jacekowskiand making it all fit23:27
RST38hhas got a bigger screen and smaller body than n900, which is more important to me23:27
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DocScrutinizer*IF* we really are too stupid to figure how CAL is structured23:28
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jacekowskii made a spec23:28
jacekowskisomebody even started writing opencal library23:28
mecespec of dust?23:28
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: uBoot deals with atag just fine it seems23:28
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: uboot just passes them23:29
mecemeh nvrmind. I'm out. tata.23:29
jacekowskiatags are prepared by nolo23:29
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DocScrutinizeryeah, but completely unrelated to setenv / storeenv23:29
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DocScrutinizeror was it saveenv23:29
DocScrutinizerhell, uBoot could even store envs back to very own program text location23:30
DocScrutinizer*IF* we really are too stupid to figure how CAL is structured23:30
jacekowskiwe know how cal is structured23:31
DocScrutinizerso what's wrong with uBoot using it then, to store envs?23:31
jacekowskisomebody would have to write code23:31
jacekowskimake udev even bigger23:31
DocScrutinizereeeeew OMFG23:31
jacekowskiand teach udev how to read/write to nand23:32
DocScrutinizerudev???23:32
jacekowskiuboot*23:32
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DocScrutinizertzz I'd happily throw out some shit of uBoot, to get those 50k free to teach it to store env in a sane way, rather than have a precompiled set built in23:33
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MohammadAG-rw-rw-r--  1 mohammad 1000 2054848 Dec 15 19:55 combined.bin <-- keep this in mind ;)23:35
RST38hMohammadAG: Have you got a fixed hildon-desktop for PR.13 that I can install without breakingPR1.3 package?23:35
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: +#define CONFIG_CMD_ONENAND/* NAND support*/23:36
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's not working apparently23:36
DocScrutinizer<jacekowski> and teach udev how to read/write to nand  <--moot23:36
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MohammadAGRST38h, hmm, define fixed :P23:38
DocScrutinizerhell it's working on OM uBoot, why do you think it doesn't on N900?23:38
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DocScrutinizerquite obviously uBoot *can* boot from NAND /23:39
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DocScrutinizerand given we accept the pathological case where a block can't be written back due to coincidental breakage as a dead end that needs new flashing, it should be a nobrainer to read a block from NAND rootfs or anywhere (possibly from uBoot's own program text, const chunk), modify it in RAM, and then write it back23:42
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RST38hMohammad: "fixed" as the "damn phone rotation bug is nolonger present"23:44
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DocScrutinizerthat's unbearable you have to compile a new custom version of uBoot and plumb it up to kernel and flash it, JUST to change the boot sequence23:45
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: OM uBoot stores persistent env to a dedicated env partition. This partition content pretty much looks to me like all I heard about how CAL is structured23:47
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jacekowskibut om was a disaster23:48
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: <jacekowski> somebody would have to write code <--moot23:48
jacekowskinobody bought it23:48
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DocScrutinizerso WHAT now? And N900 isn't available in white?23:48
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DocScrutinizerWTF that got to do with uBoot env / CAL?23:49
MohammadAGRST38h, latest package of hildon-desktop from me is here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6658623:49
_trinecan the N900 send audio via bluetooth to 2 different headphones at the same time ?23:49
DocScrutinizer_trine: probably not23:50
_trineah ok23:50
DocScrutinizerA2DP isn't a multicast protocol for all I know23:50
_trinepity because it woul dhav23:50
_trinepity because it would have been good for 2 of us watching the same film at the same time23:51
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DocScrutinizer(CAL==env) <--exactly! we could even change CAL values via uBoot console then23:52
DocScrutinizeryup23:53
asj_well you could pair with both headsets, duplicate the audio stream and stream to both headsets...but you'd have to code that up23:53
DocScrutinizerasj_: not sure if that's supported by the BT chipset/fw23:53
asj_DocScrutinizer: hmmm23:54
DocScrutinizerNB A2DP can also accept raw PCM audio via dedicated pins on some BT chipsets23:56
DocScrutinizerso the "wrapping up" is done inside BT chip, not in sw23:56
DocScrutinizerit's probably not like raw packet injection that also doesn't work ootb for WLAN chipset :-D23:56
asj_DocScrutinizer: that's just more code, implement a2dp in software ;)23:57
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DocScrutinizeryeah, but then you need packet injection mode for BT23:57
DocScrutinizerwhere :::<DocScrutinizer> asj_: not sure if that's supported by the BT chipset/fw23:57
asj_DocScrutinizer: really? it's just l2cap I assume, so can't you just open the socket and stream?23:58
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DocScrutinizertbh I'm talking outa my ass, so all that is an educated guess at best23:59

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