IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-12-10

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Venemo_N900is it NP-complete to determine whether a graph is planar00:13
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GAN900lcuk, you evidently haven't interacted with enough priests.00:17
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* luke-jr glares at GAN90000:41
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GAN900luke-jr, what? :P00:44
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luke-jrGAN900: slandering clergy00:45
BCMMwho hasn't?00:50
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GAN900luke-jr, not as a whole, just they're no less prone to scumbaggery than anybody else.01:07
GAN900luke-jr, let me talk to use about the tax exempt codes they just redid because of all the minister's using it for personal purchases. ;)01:09
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crashanddie_GAN900: got the dough?01:10
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GAN900crashanddie_, indeed I did, thanks!01:13
crashanddie_thank you01:14
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MohammadAG<MohammadAG> crashanddie, crashanddie_ ping01:17
MohammadAGfucking freenode01:17
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PaulyN900hi i think my usb port is broke on n90001:17
crashanddie_MohammadAG: I don't get highlighted if my nickname isn't the first thing on a sentence01:17
crashanddie_MohammadAG: so "hey crashanddie_" wouldn't HL me01:18
PaulyN900any1 using n900 on tmobile01:18
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, working portrait mode and list numbering, sorta01:18
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MohammadAGcrashanddie_, first of all, I thought about button positions01:20
MohammadAGbottom was awkward, top was too retarded, so I opted for middle01:20
MohammadAGI left the labels at the bottom, since you won't be clicking those01:20
crashanddie_so are the buttons horizontal or vertical?01:21
MohammadAGmaking the two widgets for portrait and landscape mode wasn't easy, had to use a 37" HDTV01:21
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crashanddie_how does the volume bar show?01:21
crashanddie_horizontal or vertical?01:21
MohammadAGthere's a built in one in maemo, so I removed it01:22
MohammadAGI was planning for it to be vertical01:22
MohammadAG(sorta like Symbian^3)01:22
crashanddie_nha, we need it01:22
crashanddie_I hate having to go to the system menu to lower volume01:22
MohammadAGyou have HW buttons01:22
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MohammadAGI'll see about it then, but it's going to be vertical in portrait01:23
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crashanddie_yeah that's fine01:23
crashanddie_so you've got the CD picture on top, information on the bottom, and controls in the middle?01:23
crashanddie_and when you hit the vol control button, the slider appears, in vertical mode01:23
MohammadAGsec, firefox crashed01:24
crashanddie_possibly covering a bit of the image / labels01:24
MohammadAGwell, I could add the bar to the layout, so the image actually moves/resizes instead of being covered01:24
MohammadAGpixelpipe's being retarded, as always01:25
MohammadAGcouncil thread become a troll fair01:26
MohammadAGfare eve01:26
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GAN900One of many reasons why we love achipa:
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javispedroMohammadAG: I still don't know what happened on that thread that forced me to basically defend qgil01:29
MohammadAGI thought he'd be pissed about the Qt implementation using the same UI, but he actually thanked the post with screenshots01:31
MohammadAG76/516 is populated from the list FYI01:31
javispedroMohammadAG: I doubt he will react badly to you cloning the Nokia UI.01:31
javispedrowould be a new low.01:32
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javispedroah, an answer!01:32
* javispedro prepares the troll machine01:32
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, song list:
crashanddie_MohammadAG: put the labels about 80px higher, and 30 px more centre01:32
smoophDocScrutinizer remember me and my flashing problem because of low battery status?01:33
MohammadAGand of course, what cannot be a clone, the main page in portrait mode,
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smoophI flashed my device but I still get Installing Software Update Please do not interrupt.01:35
MohammadAGmy N900's kinda snappy01:36
smoophcan somebody help me01:36
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MohammadAGcould be because I replaced /usr/libexec/apt-worker with a script echoing crap01:36
smoophI want to completely set it back to shipping condition01:36
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MohammadAGSettings > clear device01:37
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smooph1is it not the correct flashing command?01:37
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, :P
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timeless_mbpanyone here familiar w/ QDateTime? :)01:40
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: wouldn't call myself familiar, but I dated the bitch a couple times01:43
timeless_mbpi'll take that01:43
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_: sources + mods; - locals01:44
crashanddie_ask thy question, brethren.01:44
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timeless_mbpwhat would 49710 days be, and where would it come from?01:45
javispedroGAN900: (re atilla's post) you gotta love google's hatred of the affero gpl01:45
MohammadAGthe more code I add to Qt, the more the binary size decreases01:45
MohammadAGwtf is with that ^01:45
MohammadAGI started at 2.5MBs, then 2.0, then 1.5, now it's 1.1MBs01:46
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: 49710 days = 4,294,944,000 seconds01:47
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: 32bit int maximum: 4,294,967,29501:47
crashanddie_just a thought01:48
timeless_mbpyeah, i'll buy that01:48
timeless_mbpok, so...01:48
timeless_mbpany idea where that would come from?01:48
crashanddie_i dunno, what's your code do?01:48
timeless_mbpit shows a progress meter and tells me time remaining01:49
javispedrowhat are you trying to do there?01:49
javispedroI mean01:49
javispedrorefTime.setTime_t(0) does ... ?01:50
timeless_mbpthe old code would show 1s, ... 55s01:50
timeless_mbpafter 55s, it'd show 0 mins01:50
timeless_mbpwhich is um.. unfortunate01:50
timeless_mbp(0) sets the date to 197001:50
javispedroso you're setting that to the unix epoch01:50
timeless_mbpnote: this isn't my code01:50
javispedroand then counting days until god knows when?01:50
timeless_mbpthe delta is mine, but it isn't working01:51
lcuktimeless_mbp, simple answer, wait the 136 years or so for your download to finish :P01:51
timeless_mbpnote: not a download01:52
timeless_mbptechnically it's an upload01:52
timeless_mbpabout 1gb from local disk to ram01:52
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javispedromaybe GetTimeRemaining() returns time in nanoseconds in a uint64_t =)01:53
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: what's the value of newTime?01:53
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_: dunno?01:54
timeless_mbpinfo locals doesn't show it (you have that)01:54
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crashanddie_but it's a local var, why doesn't it show up?01:54
javispedroit does show time, though01:54
javispedro"time", I mean.01:54
javispedroand the value makes no sense01:55
javispedrotimeless_mbp: hey, I was joking, but the value seems to be a uint64_t for some reason01:56
javispedroso that could be even right01:56
crashanddie_methinks it's your days value that's f'd up01:56
crashanddie_int days = refTime.daysTo(time);01:56
crashanddie_int hours = time.addDays(-days).time().hour();01:56
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crashanddie_QString strDays = VBoxGlobal::daysToString(days);01:56
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* timeless_mbp wonders where CProgress comes from01:57
lcuktimeless_mbp, which language is this and can that return -ve "m_progress.GetTimeRemaining();" which is kinda what you are seeing01:57
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timeless_mbpcall m_progress.GetTimeRemaining()01:57
timeless_mbp$10 = -101:57
javispedroplay the sad violins no01:58
* timeless_mbp gives lcuk a prize01:58
timeless_mbpok, so clearly the code shouldn't do anything for that case01:58
lcuknotice it takes a uint01:58
lcukin the function you use it for later01:58
javispedrooh, taking an int is stupid on Qt's part.01:58
crashanddie_hey, I found the 32bit overflow thing on first look01:59
crashanddie_and I'm not getting a prize? :(01:59
lcukignoring the warning on build time ;)01:59
javispedrohaven't they read about the year2038 effect? ;)01:59
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lcukcrashanddie_, yeah you correctly highlighted that the daycount was close enough to 32b02:00
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timeless_mbpok, new locals02:02
timeless_mbpso, now it thinks it's going to take a day02:03
timeless_mbpwhich is also not really the right expected result02:03
timeless_mbp(it should take 2-4 minutes, but initially the estimate is lame and closer to 5s slowly trending up until it gets less stupid)02:03
timeless_mbp has the other defines...02:04
javispedrotbh I would not use QDateTime for the task...02:05
javispedrobecause from looking at the description it looks like it does implement TZ stuff02:05
javispedroand plain /3600 would be faster...02:05
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* timeless_mbp ponders02:06
timeless_mbpi'm not sure why this code does any of the stuff it's doing02:06
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timeless_mbpi wrote code which does something like this for mercurial02:06
timeless_mbpbut i did all the math by hand02:06
timeless_mbpbecause it didn't make any sense to do fancy stuff like this02:06
timeless_mbp(my math worked, this stuff is wonky)02:06
timeless_mbpthe fact that it calls time.addDays(-days) repeatedly is hardly an endorsement02:07
lcukhow often is this refreshed?  once every ~second?02:08
* timeless_mbp hasn't looked at the event call02:08
javispedrolcuk: it's not only a performance issue, but complexity one02:09
javispedroEVEN if there were no weird interactions with that code and timezones,02:09
timeless_mbpyeah, there's both02:09
javispedroit wouldn't allow me to sleep :)02:09
lcukits just general code02:09
* timeless_mbp is writing out the standard math flavor now02:09
* lcuk has implemented similar in past02:09
timeless_mbpmy progress code for mercurial which does stuff like this should land today/tomorrow02:10
lcuk\o thanks.02:10
timeless_mbpso i've done stuff like this...02:10
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timeless_mbpkinda amusing to touch the same sort of progress code in two projects coincidentally at the same time02:10
lcukyou think about them and notice them more02:11
javispedrotime.... :)02:11
lcuk :P02:13
lcuk21/November/2005!02:13 is incredibly slow02:13
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* javispedro hits lcuk with standard VB.NET bible02:15
timeless_mbpis what i tend to do02:15
lcukjavispedro,  nay this was classic vb02:15
timeless_mbpi know you can use %02:15
javispedrolcuk: exactly =)02:15
timeless_mbpbut i don't like repeating division02:16
lcukplease ensure all -ve numbers are account for.02:16
timeless_mbpinstead of just -1?02:17
* javispedro prefer's lcuk version. easier to read. (but then this is trivial so not a problem)02:17
lcuksince you are using signed variables, your math will mess up if you get something else.02:17
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* timeless_mbp nods02:18
timeless_mbpooh, 4 hours, 30 minutes remianing02:18
timeless_mbp3 hours, 31 minutes02:18
* timeless_mbp wonders if the estimate will get under 1 hour02:18
javispedrooh, I wrote "prefer's" :(02:19
timeless_mbp2 hours, 0 minutes remaining02:20
timeless_mbpok, so, something's wrong :(02:20
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crashanddie_night all02:20
javispedrognite crashanddie_02:21
timeless_mbpok, that's just a branch of the code that's missing02:21
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javispedrotime to add some music albums to my N900. 4 new ones. I'm using stock Tracker. Anyone wants to bet how many album art will be recognized? =)02:22
javispedroI bet 1 out of 4.02:22
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luke-jrGAN900: scumbaggery is for non-Christians02:23
* timeless_mbp complains about a missing something in <many album art>02:23
timeless_mbpjavispedro: s/art/covers/ ?02:23
javispedrotimeless_mbp: yep02:24
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DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: yu just need to optify your mp3 files02:25
javispedroI think you meant javispedro ;)02:25
timeless_mbpok, now the code actually works02:26
* timeless_mbp likes02:26
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timeless_mbpok, thanks guys02:28
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nszeekAny chance for me to get some help with my nokia n900 and wifi here ?02:36
SpeedEvilYour chances might rise if you specified your actual problem.02:37
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nszeekSpeedEvil: Was just making sure I was in the right place. Here's what's happening: I am able to connect to WEP networks but not WPA-PSK ones. It just tries to connect, fails and ask for me to input the pre-shared key again and again.02:38
nszeekI tryed to update the system (using WPE for the downloads) and it didn't work after that.02:38
SpeedEvilUmm - works here.02:39
SpeedEvilI've not investigated it furtuer for that reason02:39
SpeedEvilAnyone else have a clue/02:39
nszeekAre you using TKIP or AES ?02:39
nszeekalso ... WPA or WPA2 ?02:39
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DocScrutinizercompletely deleting the connection and then configuring it new - might help02:43
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nszeekDocScrutinizer: Did that several times already. Also configured it using the "wizard" (search for a connection) and by hand (inputing all the data).02:44
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DocScrutinizermake absolutely sure you're using the correct key (No passphrase)02:45
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DocScrutinizerkey must not contain quite a number of weird ascii chars02:46
nszeekDocScrutinizer: I am using the pre-shared key for sure. I checked it within the router and on my notebook's configuration. They check out.02:46
nszeekDocScrutinizer: Yes, it's a plain alpha-numeric password.02:46
SpeedEvilnszeek: pairwise_cipher=TKIP group_cipher=TKIP key_mgmt=WPA-PSK02:51
nszeekSpeedEvil: yeah, I have the same configuration here.02:51
SpeedEvilI did nothing special02:51
SpeedEviljust added the key02:51
SpeedEvilwell - the unusual bit would be that I have a static IP02:52
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nszeekSpeedEvil: I tryed that as well. Setting a static IP for the phone and adding the pair MAC-IP to the router didn't work either.02:52
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johnxmornin' all03:46
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nomisfun bugs with IR: This command blocks until interrupted (IR-LED switched on): echo -ne "\x01\x00\x00\x00" > /dev/lirc004:09
SpeedEvilIs the power kernel deinstallation instructions in the wiki still valid, or does the app-manager work now?04:09
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DangerMausdose anyone know if there are any irc clients that have SASL by default meaning not have to add a script for the n900?04:18
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b-man`johnx: hello :)04:34
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johnxhallo b-man`04:39
johnxhow's your world?04:39
b-man`heh, I've been fine :)04:41
b-man`I've had two arduinos arrive today for some mesh-networking prototyping :)04:41
* luke-jr needs a power-router…04:42
luke-jrany ideas?04:42
luke-jrideally something like fit-PC2i, but cheaper04:42
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SpeedEvilA power-router?04:54
* SpeedEvil has a 1200W 12mm spindle one.04:54
SpeedEvilThat's quite powerful.04:54
luke-jrSpeedEvil: yeah, like more than 8 MB RAM04:55
luke-jr512 would be ok04:55
luke-jr1 GB+ ideal04:55
luke-jruses too much power04:55
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Termanagood morning04:55
luke-jrSpeedEvil: 20w04:56
luke-jror is pogoplug some stripped down version?04:56
SpeedEvilPogoplug is not a PC04:56
luke-jrI'm assuming it's like GuruPlug and uses a (relative) ton of power04:56
SpeedEvilIt's about 4W04:57
SpeedEvilIf you add a HD, it's more of course04:57
SpeedEvilA router to do what?04:58
luke-jrI can't find specs04:58
SpeedEvilThe NICs may also want juice04:58
luke-jrto route 2 independent networks with a single WAN interface, plus phones04:58
luke-jrpossibly plus torrents04:58
SpeedEvilwhat sort of networks?04:59
SpeedEvil I meant05:00
luke-jrSpeedEvil: … it doesn't say05:00
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luke-jrin fact, it looks like the company is intentionally hiding it05:00
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Paulyhi hello anyone have n900 on t-mobile usa?05:02
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Paulymy usb socket came out of my n900 today05:03
Paulyso sad05:03
luke-jrPauly: I do.05:03
luke-jrSpeedEvil: Sheeva uses liek 20W05:04
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Where are you getting that number?05:04
luke-jrSpeedEvil: dunno05:04
SpeedEvilluke-jr: That sounds unlikely - from the architecture, and the more likely numbers of 2.3W idle on wikipedia and 7W 100% CPU05:04
SpeedEvil20W is likely if you plug a desktop drive in05:05
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luke-jrPower input: 100-240VAC/50-60Hz Max. 20W05:06
luke-jrfrom GuruPlug specs05:07
luke-jrSheeva is just low-end GuruPlug05:07
SpeedEvilright. That's a power supply spec, which is never real05:07
Paulywow thats awesome never seen anything like that05:08
luke-jrthey also don't have any stock :05:08
SpeedEvilAlso - that will be with the hard drive plugged in05:08
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SpeedEvilafter the sheevaplug fried the internal PSU i hooked up an external supply and measured consumption on the secondary (5V) side. idle with SD Card: 0.35A + connected ethernet: 0.4A05:13
luke-jrI don't see why buy Sheeva… Guru is only $30 more for much better…05:15
SpeedEvilI'm not saying du05:16
SpeedEvilIt's just identical hardware pretty much - with different peripherals, so power consumption figures are going to be near-identical05:17
luke-jrwonder if I can power the HD on/off from the system05:18
luke-jrhdparm only worked with /dev/hdX05:27
luke-jrwhich are obsolete with SATA05:27
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ShadowJKit works with sata for me05:35
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ShadowJKand with usb, sometimes05:35
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comawhiteanyone know if the n900 works on the virgin mobile in the us?06:16
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Termanacomawhite, it doesn't, Virgin Mobile USA is owned by Sprint and operates on their CDMA-based network06:19
TermanaT-Mobile is your best bet for compatibility in the US06:20
comawhitethey want $99.99 for unlimited everything06:20
comawhiteSimpleMobile wants $60 unlimited everything06:20
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comawhiteI hope the next version after the N900 it supports a lot more providers06:21
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comawhiteI need to see if I can get $250 to buy this N90006:23
comawhiteI just really want it for the internet and applications, I have no one to call06:24
comawhiteooo Germany $0.02 a minute06:25
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Gh0styanyone around? :)06:43
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comawhiteif I get my n900, can I do the development without the sdk or do I have to have the sdk? Because I heard both ways06:53
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Gh0stycomawhite: you can work on the device itself (through a shell)06:55
Gh0styor with the SDK you can run a sorta virtual n900 on your linux or windows pc06:55
luke-jrcomawhite: be aware that the preinstalled OS, Maemo, is dead06:55
Gh0styah you already consider it dead now luke-jr ?06:56
luke-jrit's been dead for a while06:56
comawhitewhat you mean?06:57
luke-jrcomawhite: Nokia has decided to abandon the platform06:57
luke-jrand if a company asks them about writing software for it, Nokia tells them not to bother06:57
Gh0stythat is official? or your interpretation? :)06:58
luke-jrGh0sty: it's happened06:58
ieatlintwell, to be more clear, maemo has reached end of life as they move onto meego, which will contain parts of maemo06:58
ieatlintif someone asks nokia about writing apps for maemo, they'll be told to write qt apps, which should work on maemo and meego06:58
luke-jrieatlint: and won't support N900 really06:58
ieatlintcorrect, there will never be a supported meego release for the n90006:58
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Gh0styif you guys tell it that way i'm kinda sorry i bought the device in the end :(06:59
ieatlintand with pedantic exceptions, no, you cannot develop for maemo on the phone itself -- the phone does not include the sdk06:59
Gh0styi love the openness of it06:59
ieatlintor any toolchain in which to build apps06:59
Gh0stybut now we're stuck in the twilight zone06:59
ieatlint(exceptions being things like perl, or python based applications, which require no build toolchain)06:59
luke-jrGh0sty: what openness?06:59
luke-jrMaemo is 'open' like Windows/Mac are 'open'07:00
ieatlintheh, hardly... there are large parts of maemo that is open07:00
ieatlintand several parts that aren't07:00
luke-jrless than 50%07:00
ieatlintdunno about that, but i don't have any specific figures to quote07:01
luke-jrand there are crucial parts that are closed07:01
ieatlintanyway, the community isn't dead, the phone is functional, and if you want to do development for meego handsets in the future, it's the best device to have right now07:02
luke-jrthe platform is dead.07:03
luke-jrwithout a platform, there's nothing to run apps on07:03
Gh0styactually funny ... DocScrutinizer and you were I tought mostly on the same line in the past07:03
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Gh0stynow DocScrutinizer is still preaching the maemo platform and you are completely calling it dead07:04
luke-jrstill preaching it how?07:04
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luke-jrit can't go anywhere without Nokia because it's closed07:04
merlincoreythere's no reason you won't be able to continue to run applications on the n900 including new applications; things will just go through different channels and methods07:04
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merlincoreyit's going to be harder, for sure07:05
luke-jrmerlincorey: you can't run apps without a platform.07:05
merlincoreybut it's not like you have a bum device if you have an n90007:05
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* luke-jr ponders07:05
ieatlintluke-jr: you're being melodramatic :P07:05
luke-jrI suppose if you forego 3D, you can still use N900 without Nokia07:05
luke-jrso not as bad as N8x0 :p07:05
ieatlintthe phone has been out over a year... it's pretty standard for support to wane after a year07:06
luke-jrieatlint: N900 isn't supposed to be a phone ;)07:06
ieatlintbut what makes maemo great is not patches from nokia to the base system, but the community and its applications07:06
ieatlintyou're arguing an extremely pedantic point there :P07:06
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luke-jrit's pretty standard to cease using any OS once there's no maintenance07:07
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luke-jrotherwise you're open to known exploits07:07
Gh0styisnt there a chance they would be willing to open up more? :/07:07
ieatlintare you trying to argue that people shouldn't use maemo because security holes could potentially crop up at some unknown point?07:08
luke-jrcomawhite: if you can get N900 for $250, it might still be worth it07:08
ieatlintGh0sty: there's been rumour, but nothing more...07:08
luke-jrieatlint: I'd be surprised if there aren't already known holes unpatched in Maemo07:08
luke-jrGh0sty: no07:08
Gh0styperhaps we could organise ourselves with a sortof official request?07:08
luke-jrGh0sty: what do they care? they already have our money07:09
luke-jror your money07:09
Gh0stynot yours? :p07:09
luke-jrGh0sty: anyhow, it isn't Nokia you need to pester on N90007:09
ieatlintluke-jr: well, i can't say i track it that well, but i personally am not aware of any remote exploits on the phone07:09
luke-jrno, I didn't buy N90007:09
Gh0styah you still have an 8x ?07:09
luke-jrGh0sty: AFAIK, the biggest remaining problem for N900 is ImgTec's SGX07:09
merlincoreyalso, it looks like the n900 will support meego in some way shape or form07:09
luke-jrGh0sty: yes07:09
luke-jrNokia *does* have my money for N810 :/07:09
luke-jrbut N900 made up for it i guess07:10
Gh0styluke-jr: the graphics chip or what is that?07:10
luke-jrGh0sty: yes, graphics07:10
luke-jrmerlincorey: not *really*07:10
Gh0stywhy because the hardware isnt capable?07:10
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ieatlintyeah, well, nokia's hands are tied on the graphics chip i bet07:10
luke-jrGh0sty: ?07:10
Gh0styor because of the manufacturer wants it closed?07:10
luke-jrieatlint: hence why I said he needs to bug ImgTec :p07:10
ieatlintno way is the manufacturer going to let them open up their driver07:10
luke-jrGh0sty: what's the question?07:10
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ieatlinteven openmoko never had an open source graphics accelerated driver07:11
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Gh0stythe problem is the graphics you say07:11
Gh0stybut is the problem that the graphics driver is not open07:11
luke-jrieatlint: I think it does, as of very recently.07:11
Gh0styor that the grahics is not capable of rendering whatever they want for meego?07:11
luke-jrGh0sty: it's not open07:12
ieatlinthaha, really?07:12
luke-jrieatlint: I recall reading something like that07:12
ieatlintthat's pretty funny07:12
luke-jrtbh, I haven't had much time lately to mess w/ it07:12
luke-jrswamped w/ paying work07:12
ieatlinti remember raster gettings the docs for it under nda, and insisting that it was such a crappy chip it wouldn't be worth him trying to do anything07:12
Gh0styok but the hardware is capable of doing 3D if the software was there?07:12
luke-jrGh0sty: obviously, Maemo uses it for 3D07:13
ieatlintGh0sty: yes, the phone can do some 3d rendering...07:13
ieatlint2d acceleration is just as important though07:13
ieatlintmore important, really07:13
* luke-jr wonders if omapfb accelerates N90007:13
luke-jrcomawhite: so what exactly do you need a handheld for?07:15
comawhitewell so I can land a better job since a lot more jobs require maemo knowledge, etc07:18
comawhitebut apparently I can get the $250 to buy one07:18
Gh0stytoo bad I paid $500 for it :(07:18
Gh0stybut the device is pretty sturdy and nevertheless I kinda like it ... :)07:19
comawhitei wish i could get my hands on one07:19
Gh0styjust buy it07:20
luke-jrcomawhite: never heard of any job asking for Maemo experience…07:20
comawhiteQt jobs07:20
luke-jrQt, yes. Maemo, no.07:20
luke-jrMaemo isn't even Qt-based.07:20
Gh0sty$250 is pretty cheap for what you get07:20
comawhiteI know it's based on crappy gtk07:20
luke-jr$250 is a pretty good deal for N900.07:20
comawhitei know07:20
Gh0styand anyway despite the software perhaps being eol ... afterwards I still see me using the device as a pocket PC07:21
comawhitebut I can't get the $250 for it07:21
luke-jr$250 isn't much07:21
comawhitewell im broke07:21
luke-jrso work an extra hour each day for a week or maybe 2?07:21
Gh0styget from behind your screen and go to your local mall and earn em!07:21
Gh0styluke-jr: you're assuming he has a job :p07:22
comawhiteluke-jr, if i had a job07:22
luke-jrGh0sty: that was implied by lookign for a *better* job07:22
comawhitetrying to land one right now, waiting for them to call me07:22
luke-jrcomawhite: just write Qt on your desktop then07:22
luke-jrexcept pretend your screen is tiny07:22
Gh0stycomawhite: if you want to play with it07:22
Gh0styjust install the SDK07:22
Gh0styand play with it07:23
comawhiteluke-jr, well, i could get a job if i want to work at mickies, by better job i mean a programming job07:23
luke-jrcomawhite: KDE doesn't pay well?07:23
Gh0styand while you're at it write some docu around the SDK cause last time I tried to install it ... it felt messy07:23
* luke-jr ducks07:23
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comawhiteluke-jr, isn't commercial07:24
luke-jractually, while I'm utterly annoyed at the poor quality of KDE lately, I bet HR reps would see it as a good thing on a resume07:24
Gh0styI always figured programmers got taken out on sight07:24
Gh0stysystem engineering jobs like mine however tool longer to find one ...07:24
Gh0styyeah a lot of MS engineers but I don't even want to get started at such a thing :p07:24
comawhitei have my app on kde, would love to make a maemo port07:25
Gh0styeven looking at win* makes the machine go crazy07:25
Gh0styinstall the SDK then!07:25
luke-jrcomawhite: I hope you're not responsible for that Nepomuk or Akonadi crap >:P07:25
comawhiteI am07:25
Gh0styand you have a virtual n90007:25
comawhitei have*07:25
comawhiteluke-jr, naw I never touched it :P07:25
Gh0stycomawhite: how are your programming skills?07:25
comawhitequite good07:25
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Gh0stylook if you wanna earn some money07:25
luke-jrGh0sty: /whois comawhite07:25
comawhitedo freelance?07:26
luke-jrGh0sty: he's a KDE dev, plenty of good experience there07:26
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Gh0stylol :P07:26
Gh0styhow the hell can he be without job then :x07:26
luke-jrand he hasn't even touched the parts of KDE that suck terribly07:26
comawhitelack of commercial experience07:26
comawhiteand lack of uni degree07:27
luke-jrcomawhite: do they seriously ask you whether you get paid for work on your resume?07:27
Gh0styI'd like an app for a long time ...07:27
comawhiteluke-jr, eh?07:27
luke-jrcomawhite: just list all your real experience on your resume, commercial or not07:27
Gh0styand I'm even prepared as to pay lets say ... 30 eur to get it? :)07:27
luke-jrGh0sty: LOL07:27
luke-jr30 eur is like an hour07:28
Gh0styI know its not much ... :/07:28
Gh0stybut since he says he does not even have the money for an n900 ...07:28
Gh0styall bits can help? :p07:28
luke-jr30 eur won't get a N900 :p07:28
comawhiteprojects, commercial work, languages (speaking), and references07:28
Gh0stya dollar a day gets you a millionaire07:28
comawhitein a million days07:28
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Gh0stywhat I am looking for however is not that easy07:29
luke-jrwhen you're 2737 years old, if you never spend it07:29
Gh0styor nobody tought of it yet07:29
Gh0stynot sure07:29
Gh0styon my symbian I had an application07:29
Gh0stywhere you could "save" cell towers07:29
Gh0stythen you could define action when you entered that cell07:30
luke-jrGh0sty: was going to say… pretty sure Maemo is too closed for that.07:30
Gh0styfor example: I saved the couple of cells near our cinema in town07:30
luke-jrbut I think that might just barely be within the realm of possibility07:30
Gh0stywhen I came near the cinema my cellphone went from general to meeting profile07:30
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Gh0stythis combined with the current functionality of alarmed ...07:31
luke-jractually, if cellmo was a little more open, we might be able to do vague triangulation from cell towers :/07:31
Gh0stywould make hell of an application:07:31
Gh0styI would like to do things like:07:31
luke-jrGh0sty: just use GPS07:31
luke-jrcuz I don't think you can find the cell tower id without GPS :/07:32
Gh0stywhen I am currently at home and the time is 22h shut down the cell modem07:32
Gh0stywhen I am however not yet home leave it on until I get home ...07:32
Gh0styluke-jr: my E65 does not have gps07:32
Gh0styit just saved the cell tower ID I guess it gets over the cell network?07:33
luke-jrGh0sty: btw, if you leave GPS enabled on N900 it will lock up pretty often ;)07:33
luke-jrN900 doesn't tell you the cell tower ID unless you turn GPS on07:33
Gh0styyes thats why anyway gps is not what I ask :P07:33
Gh0styhow is that possible? :/07:33
luke-jrGh0sty: N900 has 2 CPUs07:33
Gh0styan E65 without gps can do more then an n900? :p07:33
luke-jrone of them controls the phone/GPS stuff07:34
Gh0styyour cell radio needs to know which cell it's connected?07:34
luke-jrit's 100% closed07:34
Gh0styor there comes in the ugly closed parts?07:34
luke-jrnot only closed, but also DRM07:34
Gh0stydoesnt the n900 already have apps which can give cell tower information ...07:35
Gh0sty(not that I checked them)07:35
luke-jrsure, so long as the GPS is on07:35
luke-jrbut then you might as well use the GPS07:35
luke-jrwhich drains the battery, and crashes the graphics driver07:36
Gh0styluke-jr: so negative ... :P07:36
luke-jrjust saying the reality of it :P07:36
Gh0styyeah ok but a bit more constructive way would be appreciated07:36
* luke-jr wonders if you can get teh cell info by just turning it on for a split-second07:36
Gh0styyou made your point ok maemo is dead and so on but ... :p07:36
luke-jrand just turn it on-then-off every 5 min07:37
Gh0stythats what I was also thinking ...07:37
Gh0stydespite the fact its not that good if a split second would give this information07:37
Gh0styand a 5 min interval is ok07:38
luke-jryes, you can07:38
Gh0styits not like it's critical on the minute07:38
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Gh0stybut anyway here comes my problem ...07:38
Gh0styI am a systems guy :p07:38
Gh0stynot a developer :)07:38
Gh0styso unless somebody is willing to write something it will never exist :P07:38
luke-jrhow about a small bin that just prints the cell info?07:39
luke-jrthen you can have a shell script do the compare, and make that a cronjob07:39
Gh0styyeah something like that07:39
Gh0styofcourse the problem is I need to first capture which towers are there ...07:39
Gh0styso I need to be able to put that bin in listening mode07:40
Gh0styand just write out all the cells it receives at that point in a txt file or something ...07:40
Gh0stycomawhite: interested? :P07:41
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Gh0stycomawhite: read the above ideas for an application :P07:45
luke-jr# ./whatcelltower07:45
luke-jrside effect: if you actually have the GPS active, this kills it07:45
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Gh0styI don't use the gps actually07:46
Gh0stythe few times I actually used was when I was at Boston ... while I am from europe :P07:46
Gh0styjust to find my way around there :)07:46
Gh0styin my car I have better stuff07:46
Gh0styand walking I never need gps normally07:47
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Gh0styand I am actually surprised ...07:49
Gh0stynowadays they reverse engineer cpu's07:49
Gh0styand all kinds of hard and software07:49
Gh0stynobody who even tried to hack the whole phone part of the n90007:50
Gh0stythe -open- source but than in the black hat version :P07:50
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luke-jrGh0sty: ;)07:53
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luke-jrGh0sty: I had to reverse engineer the GPS, btw; it was closed on all levels07:53
Gh0stywhat? :p07:54
Gh0styyou dont have the device ... :p07:54
Gh0styhow can you ...07:54
Neccthe firmware is accidently not free for all? :P07:55
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Gh0styluke-jr: when I execute it ... it comes asking to make a connection first interactively (since I don't allow gprs or wifi connections on the fly ...)08:14
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: for doing any 'triangulation' from celltowers, the celmo needs to be a lot more open than it is. See my elaborations on this in
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: btw I think you'll  burn in FOSS hell for linking to blobs here (whatcelltower)09:51
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cos^is erminig dev on this channel?10:38
cos^it crashes when editing account settings10:38
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DocScrutinizerlo RST38h10:51
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crashanddiemorning maemo11:08
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crashanddiepupnik_, what's new in AssangeCountry?11:14
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pupnikpretty rich11:15
crashanddiedid I just get text-rickroll'd?11:15
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pupniker, pretty Rick, rather11:17
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sezuanWhat's the 'best' python qt binding for the n900? It seems that many application use the python-qt4-* libs, on the other side, the pyside libs seem to be the nokia supported libraries.11:19
alteregoI use PySide11:21
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alteregoThere was a new release recently which is quite cool.11:21
alteregoThey're pretty much functionally identical.11:22
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crashanddieMohammadAG, ping11:24
sezuanalterego: Ok, so technically there's not a big difference, except the license.11:25
crashanddiealterego, you have experience with MAFW, don't you?11:25
alteregocrashanddie: some what yeah11:25
crashanddiealterego, ever used it from a C++ Qt App?11:25
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alteregosezuan: pretty much, the license was the reason Nokia pushed PySide11:25
alteregocrashanddie: no, but then Qt DBus is quite cool :)11:25
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crashanddieQt Dbus?11:26
MohammadAGalterego, it's not dbus only11:26
alteregoWhat else would you use?11:26
alteregoI've only ever used the dbus api ..11:26
alteregoAnd that's what MAFW is, it's a DBus API for media playback ..11:27
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alteregoOh wait, does it have a native C API aswell?11:27
lardmanmorning chaps11:28
lardmandiscussing the new Media Player?11:28
MohammadAGyeah, see libmafw11:28
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lardmanGObject in a Qt app?11:30
alteregoThere are a few resources on using GObject based APIs in Qt11:30
alteregoI've not done it personally.11:30
alteregoI dunno, I'd try and use the DBus API personally :)11:31
lardmanQt DBus is nice and easy11:31
MohammadAGalterego, even for a replacement media player?11:32
alteregoWhy not?11:32
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crashanddieMohammadAG, doesn't really matter, as long as the same operations are supported through either interface11:33
lardmanAre there docs on the DBus interface?11:33
crashanddieand whether we go through a GObject translation layer or DBus, well...11:33
lardmanThere's only a mention in here:
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lardmanMohammadAG: what was the git repo again?11:40
* lardman wonders who wrote Nautilus and why they neglected to add an "Open Terminal here" menu item11:41
alteregoIntegrating Qt with gobject is quite easy, the hardest part is getting your GMainLoop into Qt, luckily Qt has a nice way of doing that, though I don't know off hand what it is. I'm sure there are countless examples.11:41
MohammadAGlardman, http?//
MohammadAGffs maemo11:42
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alteregoWell, columbus builds in scratchbox fine11:44
lardmanfatal: not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?11:44
* lardman has not used git before, so could be my fault11:44
alteregoNeeded a bit of tweaking though :/11:44
X-Fadelardman: git clone
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lardmanthanks X-Fade11:45
lardman~lart xinerama not passing focus across screens correctly11:45
* infobot executes killall -HUP xinerama not passing focus across screens correctly11:45
lardmanhad to change to git://11:46
MohammadAGalterego, cat * | wc -l11:46
X-Fadelardman: Well there are 2 options, as gitorious shows you at the top ;)11:47
lardmanyours didn't work for some reason11:47
lardmanbut thanks anyway ;)11:47
X-Fadelardman: Don't blame me, I just pasted what gitorious said :)11:47
alteregoMohammadAG: find . -name '*.cpp' -or -name '*.h' | xargs wc -l11:47
lardmanwhat do they say about trusing things you read on the internet...? :)11:48
alteregoMohammadAG: 8977 currently11:48
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MohammadAGalterego, why xargs?11:54
alteregobecause of command line argument maximum length limitations.11:54
lardmanMohammadAG: do we want to share the gst pipeline between music and videos?11:55
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MohammadAGlardman, won't that cause playing videos to forget song timeline?11:56
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RST38hMohammad, lardman, heya12:00
lardmanyeah, but that's what happens atm12:00
lardmanhi RST38h12:00
lardmanMohammadAG: I'm also not sure if we can have two playbin2 objects at one time12:00
RST38hFolks, are you rewriting the Media Player???12:01
MohammadAGlardman, then make them use the same pipe12:01
RST38hCould you please fix the UI while doing that?12:01
lardmanwell I'll see if I can create two of them12:01
MohammadAGRST38h, already done12:01
lardmangst docs really are crap12:01
RST38hMohammad: Screenshots!!!12:02
DocScrutinizeralterego: cmd line maximum? I always thought piping by | would redirect stdin, not cmdline parameter12:02
MohammadAGRST38h, see tinypic links in yesterdays logs :P12:02
alteregoxargs turns stdin into arguments for a command.12:02
alteregowc -l doesn't accepts filenames on stdin afair12:03
DocScrutinizeralterego: that's a completely different explanation, and I don't get it yet12:03
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* MohammadAG wonders how to process QModalIndex-es12:04
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DocScrutinizercat foo | wc -l;  : count the lines in foo.  cat foo | xargs wc -l; : count the lines of every file listed in foo by full pathname12:06
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DocScrutinizer       find /tmp -name core -type f -print | xargs /bin/rm -f12:11
DocScrutinizer       Find files named core in or below the directory /tmp and delete them.  Note that this  will  work  incorrectly  if there are any filenames containing newlines or spaces.12:11
DocScrutinizerman wc:12:11
DocScrutinizerPrint  newline, word, and byte counts for each FILE, and a total line if more than one FILE is specified.  With no FILE, or when FILE is -, read standard input.12:11
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pupnikif you don't type 'wc' every day you're probably not a *nix guy12:12
DocScrutinizeralterego: so your cmdline will count the number of sourcecode lines in all *.cpp, while without xarg it counts the number of *.cpp files12:13
alteregoDocScrutinizer: exactly12:13
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* MohammadAG is thinking of rewriting the FMTX dialog12:18
crashanddieDocScrutinizer, find /tmp -name core -type f -exec /bin/rm -f {}12:19
crashanddiea lot better than using xargs.12:19
timeless_mbpdoes anyone here remember my last exercise in shell scripts?12:21
timeless_mbpthe case of the always exiting exit?12:21
timeless_mbpit was nov 2512:21
timeless_mbplast night we encountered the case of the always running service12:22
timeless_mbpthe code does something like:12:22
timeless_mbpSHOULD_START=`gconf-tool-2 ...blah...get...setting...value`12:22
timeless_mbpif [ $SHOULD_START=="true" ]; then12:22 /usr/bin/superdaemon12:23
timeless_mbptechnically there's a way to stop the service... in Settings you can uncheck the service thing12:23
crashanddieso gconf-tool-2 outputs the string "true" ?12:23
timeless_mbptypically it outputs the string 'false' :)12:23
timeless_mbpand it stops... for the session. but it's back12:23
timeless_mbpwhen you reboot12:23
timeless_mbpwell, i don't like the daemon so i uncheck the thing in settings12:24
crashanddiealso, don't use capital variable names -- they collide with environment variables12:24
timeless_mbpbut yeah, in theory if someone actually wanted the superdaemon to start the value would be true12:24
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timeless_mbpsp3000: should we tell $HAPPY_CODER not to use caps?12:25
crashanddieif [ "$should_start" == "true" ]; then12:25
crashanddieuse quotes :)12:25
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: but .. you're getting ahead of things12:25
timeless_mbpthe question to ask is "why does it always start"12:25
timeless_mbpnot "how would i write this code" :)12:25
timeless_mbp(bug w/ suggested fixes is already filed fwiw, as was the case in the zfs bug..)12:26
infobottimeless_mbp meant: (bug w/ suggested fixes is already filed fwiw, as was the case in the mac-zfs bug..)12:26
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crashanddieif [ "$should_start" == "true" ]; then /usr/bin/superdaemon; else echo "Value of \$should_start is '$should_start'"; fi12:28
timeless_mbpyeah yeah, but you're fixing the code w/o explaining to $HAPPY_CODER what was wrong w/ the old code12:28
crashanddieor just print $should_start after gathering the idea12:28
timeless_mbpthis is an script12:28
crashanddieyou ask "why does it always start"? Without checking the value of your test12:28
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timeless_mbpoh, it always starts, and a command line test yields:12:29
timeless_mbpecho $SHOULD_START12:29
ieatlintcome now, documenting code is just needless additional dev time12:29
crashanddiethen it is being tested somewhere else12:29
alteregocrashanddie: "==" is numerical equality you want "="12:29
RST38hFor knowledge brings sadness and a lot of knowledge brings a lot of sadness. Moo.12:29
infobotcrashanddie meant: then it is being started somewhere else12:30
timeless_mbpagain, you've written code which isn't broken, but you haven't explained what was wrong w/ the original code12:30
crashanddiealterego, piss off, = is assignment12:30
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: not in shell []12:30
alteregoNo in test it isn't ..12:30
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infobotalterego meant: Not in test it isn't ..12:30
timeless_mbpw/o explaining to $HAPPY_CODER what was wrong w/ the  original code, $HAPPY_CODER is likely to repeat the mistake in the future12:30
* alterego pisses off.12:30
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timeless_mbpalterego: so have you identified the mistake $HAPPY_CODER made?12:31
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crashanddietimeless_mbp, there isn't anything wrong, given the current parameters, it's somewhere else12:31
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: nope, replacing my code with your code would fix the bug12:31
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timeless_mbps/my code/code pasted above as written by $HAPPY_CODER/12:31
crashanddieeh? Really?12:31
infobottimeless_mbp meant: crashanddie: nope, replacing code pasted above as written by $HAPPY_CODER with your code would fix the bug12:31
timeless_mbpremember, this is adventures in shell coding gotchas 10212:32
timeless_mbp(101 was already taken)12:32
alteregotimeless_mpb,  don't even know what you're talking about :P12:32
crashanddietimeless_mbp, sorry, don't see it.12:33
timeless_mbp<timeless_mbp> last night we encountered the case of the always running service12:33
timeless_mbp<timeless_mbp> the code does something like:12:33
timeless_mbp<timeless_mbp> SHOULD_START=`gconf-tool-2 ...blah...get...setting...value`12:33
timeless_mbp<timeless_mbp> if [ $SHOULD_START=="true" ]; then12:33
timeless_mbp<timeless_mbp> /usr/bin/superdaemon12:33
timeless_mbp<timeless_mbp> fi12:33
timeless_mbpusing a normal shell:12:34
timeless_mbpSHOULD_START=`gconf-tool-2 ...blah...get...setting...value`12:34
timeless_mbpecho $SHOULD_START12:34
crashanddietimeless_mbp, bash vs sh?12:34
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: n900 default shell12:34
crashanddieno idea what that is12:34
timeless_mbpbut any shell will do this12:34
timeless_mbpthe code is wrong everywhere :)12:34
timeless_mbpso, we know that the user is asking for superdaemon not to start, and the code above is starting it anyway12:35
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crashanddiebut this fixes it: if [ "$should_start" == "true" ]; then /usr/bin/superdaemon; else echo "Value of \$should_start is '$should_start'"; fi12:35
crashanddiethe quotes?12:35
timeless_mbpthose are good for other reasons, but not the actual bug12:35
crashanddiethen just tell us, you obviously have the answer12:36
timeless_mbpit's the spaces around the equals12:36
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timeless_mbpwithout them, the test is not an equality, it's "is the thing inside [] not empty "12:36
crashanddieit parses it as a full string12:37
ieatlintthe parser deliminates by white space12:37
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timeless_mbppoor $HAPPY_CODER12:37
timeless_mbpto be fair, i looked at it and didn't get it12:37
timeless_mbpi had to pass my n900 over the table at dinner for help12:37
crashanddieyeah, debugging shell code is a bitch12:37
crashanddiewhich is why you really need good practices to start writing it12:37
timeless_mbpand it wasn't spotted immediately, sp3000 almost missed it12:37
timeless_mbpbut he got it...12:38
crashanddieI wrote a 2000-line script, would never have been able to get it working was it not for a few simple rules12:38
timeless_mbpand then superdaemon at future boots didn't start, and i was super happy12:38
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timeless_mbpremember: users are happiest when things don't start :)12:38
crashanddiethat's not what she said12:38
timeless_mbpshe's happy when you don't start an argument!12:39
timeless_mbpand you're happy when she doesn't say you started an argument :)12:39
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alteregoCool, got columbus working in scratchbox now :)12:41
alteregoWell, "working" ..12:41
alteregoNo GPS means no data :D12:41
chem|stwe should be more than happy, I can tell stories of friends with android and iphones... with stuff we say WORKSFORME12:41
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* timeless_mbp is reading
crashanddiechem|st, appstore?12:43
crashanddiechem|st, games? media player?12:43
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crashanddieand now the N900 users are going:
chem|stcrashanddie: yeah like "fsck which of those skype apps does actualy work properly?"12:45
timeless_mbpalterego: shiny12:45
chem|stcrashanddie: scrolling 10k fart apps in market doesnt help you find anything12:46
timeless_mbpalterego: can i ask you to not use centering for Options, Tools, and Network Server?12:46
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timeless_mbpmixing centering and left align is bad12:46
alteregoI'm not mixing12:46
alteregoAnd M5 UI guidelines say centering.12:46
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: *I* know12:46
timeless_mbpalterego: really?12:47
alteregoOh, I guess I am with the toggles and such.12:47
timeless_mbpopen MfE options12:47
timeless_mbpit uses left align12:47
DocScrutinizerthugh doesn't work with messybox' fsckdup ""find""12:47
alteregotimeless_mbp: yes, M5 ui guidelines say pick selectors should be centered.12:47
timeless_mbpalterego: hrm, tell that to the people who made M5?12:47
timeless_mbpopen Settings>Phone12:47
alteregoI'm not changing it :P12:48
timeless_mbpthe only things which are centered are buttons12:48
timeless_mbpalterego: please change it12:48
timeless_mbpand can you hit me w/ a url for this m5 guideline?12:48
alteregoNope, and nope :P12:49
alteregoIt was some PDF on the site, I'm a bit busy to dig it up :P12:49
alteregoGoogle it :D12:49
timeless_mbpyou do know that nokia and maemo are hard to google, right? ;-)12:49
alteregoI've never had problems.12:49
alteregolrn2goog :P12:49
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timeless_mbp says "This article is legacy documentation, and is superseded by Forum Nokia documentation."12:50
timeless_mbpas i said, nokia is hard to google12:50
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* timeless_mbp wonders how nokia manages this12:50
timeless_mbpfwiw, qt is hard to google too12:50
timeless_mbpremember QDateTime from yesterday?12:51
timeless_mbpQt3 docs come up higher than Qt-current docs12:51
timeless_mbp(you can see evidence of that in the log, someone pointed to the Qt3 doc *after* I had linked to the current doc)12:51
alteregoYeah, I get that a lot.12:51
alteregoThen I just replace qt3 with latest :)12:51
* timeless_mbp grumbles12:52
timeless_mbpWTF is with FN?12:52
timeless_mbpit doesn't *link* to PDFs12:52
timeless_mbpit forces me to *Download* them12:52
timeless_mbpso i can't use my safe Google Chrome PDF reader12:52
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timeless_mbpinstead I have to use my unsafe default os pdf reader12:52
* timeless_mbp kicks FN for being stupid12:52
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* ptl gets away from timeless_mbp... He doesn't want to get kicked too12:53
timeless_mbpptl: i'm a nice guy12:54
timeless_mbpif people are responsive to feedback, i politely give feedback12:54
timeless_mbpif people act like brick walls, i kick them12:54
ptlbut you kick people when they are being stupid :P12:54
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timeless_mbpbut trust me, they deserve to be kicked and it hurts me more than them12:54
timeless_mbpptl: you'd rather i kicked people when they were smart? :)12:55
timeless_mbpalterego: 13.1.2 Implementation12:55
timeless_mbppage 4812:55
timeless_mbp13.2Aligning and theming complex button text12:55
timeless_mbpThe views and dialogues can have buttons with two text strings. This is particularly used in Pickers (the picker button), but it is used in normal buttons; for example, when an application-specific, custom picker-like UI is created.12:55
timeless_mbpFigure 26: Complex button text with single line and two columns12:56
timeless_mbpFigure 27: Complex button text with two lines12:56
timeless_mbpThere are two main cases for aligning, of which the single-line case is the most common: •Two text strings are in a single line on two "columns", both left aligned to the edge of its column •Two text strings are in two rows, both left aligned to its row12:56
timeless_mbpthat url looks "better"12:57
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timeless_mbpoh cute, there's a full screen icon12:57
timeless_mbptoo bad it isn't used consistently by nokia apps12:57
timeless_mbpalterego: so, since i've done your homework for you, would you please left align? thanks12:58
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alteregotimeless_mbp: like I said, I'm not changing it.13:01
alteregoI like it how it is.13:01
timeless_mbpalright, but don't hide behind the specs :)13:01
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alteregotimeless_mbp: I could have sworn it said that :P13:02
timeless_mbpgood thing you didn't13:02
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timeless_mbpalterego: please remember i'm probably the only guy dumb enough to have actually read this crap13:02
timeless_mbpbut i read it before we shipped13:02
timeless_mbpso it was >>1 year ago13:02
alteregoI read it, I just must have been mistaken.13:03
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alteregoWell, I may change them.13:05
alteregoI'll look into it later when I can be bothered. If I think it looks okay I'll do it :P13:05
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timeless_mbpcool :)13:05
timeless_mbpptl: see, alterego's a reasonable guy13:05
alteregoIt is a bit of hassle having to set each button to centre align ;)13:06
ptltimeless_mbp: lol13:06
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alteregoIt'll reduce my code by 1 line per button13:06
alteregoWhich is a shame, I'll have to implement something else to cover the deficit :P13:06
timeless_mbpptl: no kicking required... a bit of screaming and some dragging, but hey13:06
alteregoAnyhow, battery is about to die on laptop and I've done some good progress so I'll bbl.13:06
timeless_mbpalterego: if you want help adding LoC, i'm sure i can find a way13:07
timeless_mbphave a good weekend and thanks for listening13:07
alteregoNo doubt.13:07
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MohammadAG~seen lardman13:59
infobotlardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1h 57m 30s ago, saying: 'gst docs really are crap'.13:59
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MohammadAGmissed his PM :/14:00
DocScrutinizer51heh, is this NOLO or (my guess) bootmenu which makes indicator LED explode in bright white on boot, only if cam door open and cam trigger pushed during boot?14:03
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MohammadAGprolly preinit14:04
MohammadAGnever seen that14:04
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DocScrutinizer51can you reproduce that?14:07
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MohammadAGR&D mode, my LED never goes on at boot time14:07
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RST38hMine does it intermittently14:09
RST38hSometimes it does14:09
RST38hSometimes it feels like you are supposed to hold the power button until the LED reaches full brightness, or the device will not start14:10
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: that's not what I'm talking about14:13
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: the effect I see is a *very* bright white LED *after* the usual ramp-up of brightness plus a few seconds darkness, late on NOLO screen14:15
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MohammadAGNOLO is only there for less than 1s before a kernel is loaded14:18
MohammadAGby kernel, I mean uboot/preinit14:19
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trxone more or less unrelated question, while creating a deb package, how do i create a link in one folder to a file in another?14:27
MohammadAGbetter done in postinst with ln -s14:28
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trxthat would make sense14:30
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MohammadAGlardman, missed your PM14:44
lardmanI've added a QWidget which will handle audio and video playback14:45
lardmancurrently using the same pipeline, but we could choose to retain the state of each type of file14:45
MohammadAGlardman, got a gitorious account?14:45
MohammadAGfor commit access14:45
lardmanI'll have to apply for one14:46
MohammadAGsigning up there is really quick14:46
lardmancode's not finished yet anyway, I was wondering how the player should handle playlists - whether to keep an internal list so that we might be able to try things like gapless playback14:46
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derflardman: What are you coding now?14:47
lardmanmedia player14:47
derfTo me, gapless playback is an _essential_ feature.14:47
lardmanderf: only because what I had meant to do, learning about shiboken, looked harder14:47
derfThat only shows that you don't know anything about media players :).14:48
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lardmanwell I was only going to do the gst bit14:48
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lardmanI'm not even sure if gst can handle gapless playback for that matter14:48
derfOn my desktop, I am still literally using the original xmms.14:48
derfBecause everything else I've ever used has sucked in comparison.14:49
derfAnd xmms is pretty bad.14:49
lardmanhmm, apparently it should work14:50
MohammadAGwhat about crossfade?14:50
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derfI have no use for crossfade, personally.14:51
* lardman has a look14:51
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lardmanhmm, apparently playbi2 supports gapless but not crossfade14:53
lardmanplaybin2 even14:53
thopiekarhi.. is there a howto install Canola on N900 on the web?14:53
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lardmanrealistically I guess the playback widget can always ask the outside world for the uri of the next file once it receives the about-to-finish signal14:54
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lardmananyone tested whether this has been fixed:
povbotBug 6694: libplayback missing -doc package15:00
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lardmanas it will affect a new media player15:00
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lardmanhmm, well the description is not as important as the effect they were trying to overcome15:00
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DocScrutinizerlardman: gapless is essential. And full editing capabilities on playlists are essential (I.E. append, cut, insert, stop-after, with optional fade-out)15:21
MohammadAGlardman, we're still using mafw right?15:21
lardmangapless is fine as that's fully supported by playbin215:21
lardmanMohammadAG: yep, I'm just looking at the gstreamer stuff15:22
DocScrutinizerMy personal favourite would be playback of iso9660.bin img with cuesheet15:22
MohammadAGI see, thought mafw also provided those (never read the docs fully)15:22
lardmandocscrutinizer: I don;t know whether mafw will support adding attributes to the songs in the playlist15:22
lardmandocscrutinizer: well that could theoretically be achieved, I'm not volunteering though15:23
DocScrutinizerlardman: it's a Nokia invention? And the feature isn't needed by stock mediaplayer? Then I bet it's not supported by mafw15:24
lardmanyeah probably not15:24
DocScrutinizercompare arbitrary other Nokia inventions - all crippled to the bare minimum15:24
DocScrutinizeras far as we're talking about maemo libs etc15:24
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DocScrutinizerwhich btw scares me a lot when thinking about bme kernel support in harmattan. I bet it will break hostmode15:26
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BCMMheh, FCam is awesome15:26
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SpeedEvilfcam would be more awesome for me if it wouldn't insist on opening the sound device15:27
DocScrutinizerFCam is no genuine Nokia baby though15:27
lardmanMohammadAG: remind me again why we're using MAFW?15:27
SpeedEvilI want to listen to mp3 and take pics15:28
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: heh! and the lp552315:28
MohammadAGlardman, so we don't break APIs15:28
lardmanbut if it's only used internally anyway...15:28
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i wasn't commenting on the nokia-breakage convo...15:28
DocScrutinizerBCMM: oh, nevertheless it fits15:29
BCMMit's just that someone with nice digital bridge camera was just envious of teh manual controlls15:29
MohammadAGlardman, home widgets, applets, status updaters15:29
lardmanah ok15:29
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MohammadAGthey all base on libmafw15:30
BCMMwhich is pretty good for a cameraphone, really15:30
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* lardman wonders whether we need to use mafw renderers in that case15:31
lolloowhy pidgin doesnt show avatar of my MSN contacts?15:32
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DocScrutinizerlardman: MohammadAG: (iso9660, volunteer) as long as your mediaplayer app is planning for a generic way to plug in that function seamlessly, I guess that's just good enough15:33
lardmanDocScrutinizer: all you need to do is write a gstreamer element that can read from that file15:33
BCMMSpeedEvil: that's odd, playback doesn't stop for me when using fcamera15:33
MohammadAGlardman, that's why I was thinking really15:33
lardmanthen it should be automatically recognised by playbin215:34
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BCMM(although IIRC the FCam API is supposed to have a built-in way to make sounds)15:34
DocScrutinizerlardman: so playbin2 is also handling playlists?15:34
DocScrutinizerhmm :-/15:34
lardmanbut I guess anything can be added to a playlist15:34
DocScrutinizerso what about the cuesheet?15:34
lardmanah, i see15:34
lardmanwell apparently mafw is extensible ;)15:34
DocScrutinizermake sure about that, as it may flaw your basic architecture, if you use it for a basic building block and then it turns out it can't handle things like e.g cuesheets15:36
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jo-erlendwill there be any further updates to maemo, or is everything about meego now? I've found some bugs, but I don't know if there is any use reporting them?15:38
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DocScrutinizerjo-erlend: notions about that differ wildly15:39
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DocScrutinizerjo-erlend: a somewhat common sense seems to be it's useful to have tickets for bugs in tracker, so community can focus on alternative ways to patch if Nokia doesn't care15:40
BCMMSpeedEvil: which fcam app do you find disables audio?15:41
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SpeedEvilI may be wrong15:43
SpeedEvilIt happened once in 1783.15:43
BCMMi know the default camera app does that15:43
BCMMthe year 1783?15:43
MohammadAGlardman, shouldn't the UI handle playlists?15:44
DocScrutinizerlardman: for a bad example about how Nokia apps and libs spoil proper integration of nice plugins, see "mafw-grilo-source plugins for Fremantle Media Player"15:44
MohammadAGor MAFW Playlists15:44
lardmanMohammadAG: well I suppose the UI should present the playlist state that MAFW handles15:44
RST38hBTW Grilo stuff needs a bugfix15:44
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RST38hAnyonewilling to fix+commit?15:44
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DocScrutinizerlardman: (grilo plugin ugly) I guess you want avoid your app is duplicating this15:47
lardmanso I guess we'll need to make some modification to the mafw-gst-renderer to enable gapless playback:
lardmanDocScrutinizer: not my app! :)15:48
X-FadeNo, not really. The guy who volunteered for the rules, has access now.15:49
X-FadeHmm ok, -EWINDOW :)15:49
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DocScrutinizerlogger -t X-Fade -EWINDOW15:49
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Yeah, quite a lot ;)15:50
mazdokI'm trying to download opencv but I don't find it in the repositories. I tried to add:15:51
mazdok*  deb fremantle free non-free15:51
mazdok    * deb-src fremantle free15:51
mazdokto sources.list but I get: couldn't access keyring: no such file or directory15:52
mazdokany idea?15:53
DocScrutinizermazdok: you're supposed to manage catalogs via HAM15:53
mazdokuhm what do you mean?15:53
DocScrutinizerI mean you should open Hildon Application Manager, and there add your repository URLs15:54
DocScrutinizerin menu -> catalogs15:54
DocScrutinizerafaik direct editing of sources.list is deprecated15:55
gregoaworks fine for me15:55
mazdokuhm but I'm speaking about scratchbox15:55
DocScrutinizermaybe to avoid the issue you're facing15:55
DocScrutinizerok, scratch my coment15:55
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gregoamazdok: opencv seems to be in extras-devel --> "deb fremantle free non-free" (and deb-src)15:56
mazdokI tried to compile opencv also from the source but I get a strange error15:56
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mazdokso should I have to add this line:15:56
mazdokdeb fremantle free non-free15:57
mazdokin sources.list right?15:57
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gregoalooks like what I've pasted above :)15:57
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mazdokgregoa: yep :P15:57
mazdokdamn it15:58
mazdokI get the same error..15:58
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mazdokGPG error: blablabla freemantle release: could't access keyring. no such file or directory15:59
gregoahm. strange. could you paste the complete command/output somewhere?16:00
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mazdokuhm ok16:00
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mazdokI am using a virtualbox machine so I may need time16:01
lardmanhmm, ok well we could support gapless by changing the mafw sources so that they contain some metadata about whether we want a gap or not, and changing the gst renderer to look for that info and either wait for the track to finish or push the next one when it's signalled16:01
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lardmanshould be possible to add support for cue by creating a new mafw source and a gst src element to read the correct data16:02
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gregoamazdok: ah, that. I think I've seen that before, but IIRC it's only a warning and installing packages still works16:06
gregoamazdok: I never was motivated to find out about the keyrings for the maemo repositories yet16:07
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gregoamazdok: "apt-key adv --keyserver --recv-keys 616730BD" imports the key for extras-devel16:08
mazdokwhere do you find it?16:08
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DocScrutinizer51FSCK that lis302dl driver!!!16:10
gregoamazdok: in the back of my brain :) (the keyid with "apt-key list" on the N900)16:10
DocScrutinizer51had there been any patches to it for pr1.3?16:10
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mazdokthank you very much I m going to try it now16:10
gregoamazdok: np. hope it works16:10
DocScrutinizer51my acceleromeer frequently locks up and needs REMOVAL OF BATTERY to reset16:11
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mazdokgregoa: IT WORKED!!! thank you very much!16:12
gregoamazdok: cool!16:12
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DocScrutinizer(accel) I honestly wonder why it doesn't reset on powerdown at very least, as it's powered by 1V8 and 2V8 only, and both rails are supposed to be powered down on shutdown of system16:14
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DocScrutinizeranyway the driver *obviously* is missing a decent chip reset & init on module load16:15
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infobothmm... pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update16:16
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lollooprobably last?16:16
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mazdokgregoa: I'm trying to do it for the arm target but it doesn't work. gpg: keyserver receive failed: keyserver error16:19
mazdoknothing now it works.. maybe it was a timeout16:19
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gregoamazdok: yeah probably a timeout or a network problem. is not the most reliable keyserver (it was just the first that came to my mind)16:20
DocScrutinizerhmm, * Fixes: NB#152523 - Accelerometer uncalibrated after reboot16:20
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mazdokah ok16:20
DocScrutinizermight also fix the lockup16:20
mazdokthank you again16:20
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chem|stis there an easy way to get a command to powerbutton klicks?16:29
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MohammadAGchem|st, ?16:30
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chem|stor any hardware key16:33
chem|stMohammadAG: you lock screen and kbd by double press, how may I replace that with say security lock16:33
MohammadAGchem|st, can you merge into ?16:34
chem|stMohammadAG: usbstick into problems with hostmode?16:35
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MohammadAGproblems with getting hostmode16:35
MohammadAGsignal sender=:1.8 -> dest=(null destination) serial=1187 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer_logicaldev_input; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition16:35
MohammadAG   string "ButtonPressed"16:35
MohammadAG   string "power"16:35
MohammadAGyou could detect if that was sent twice with a daemon/dbus-scripts16:36
chem|stMohammadAG: done...16:36
MohammadAGI would've thought the power button sent a signal for a double click...16:37
chem|stMohammadAG: the action is already taken for screenlock but the config has only options written for [off,menu,lock,stby]16:37
MohammadAGapparently, it's just mce processing whether it was sent once or twice16:37
DocScrutinizerheh, the bits Zen, Yen, and Xen, in LIS302, are really lovely named :-D16:37
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chem|stand I want to change the action taken on lock from "lock scr & kbd" to "security lock"16:38
MohammadAGyou need to set it to off and detect two presses with a daemon16:39
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MohammadAGa different one16:39
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alteregothere's a system dbus message when screen locks16:41
alteregoJust do a device lock on that16:41
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chem|stalterego: I do not want to device lock on screen lock!16:43
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: I ponder about tweaking events.d/* to handle e.g. soft-poweroff action for powerbutton_action_doubleclick in a different manner16:45
chem|stwhat is the home key?16:46
DocScrutinizernobody knows :-P16:46
DocScrutinizerprolly heritage of N8x016:46
chem|stwhat is soft power off?16:47
chem|stlmg noone knows..16:47
chem|stread about it somewhere... also heritage of n8x016:48
DocScrutinizerNo, it's same as act_dead aka charging16:48
DocScrutinizeraccording to comments in mce.ini16:48
DocScrutinizerwhatever that's worth for16:49
MohammadAGindeed, it's act_dead16:49
MohammadAGit activates offline mode and turns on the charging led16:49
DocScrutinizerit does more than that: it basically changes runlevel16:49
DocScrutinizerand you can configure if it's entering offline mode or not, during act_dead16:50
chem|stactivates charging led is weird...16:50
chem|stwhere is the config for that?16:51
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chem|stuh ok need to look closer16:51
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javispedrosoft poweroff should not activate power led16:52
javispedroit is n8x0 heritage indeed16:52
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chem|stmy I set devlock instead of tklock for the double press? mce must know what is meant dont it?16:52
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MohammadAGworst case scenario if you try is that your device goes into a boot loop, till you kill the watchdog with R&D mode16:53
chem|stI try ;)16:54
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DocScrutinizer\o/ cheers for the heroes16:54
DocScrutinizerI bet on "mce ignores as it doesn't know"16:55
chem|streboot on sight ;)16:55
chem|stone mce restart...16:55
DocScrutinizermce another example of Nokia not implementing much beyond what they thought might be enough to meet *their* requirements16:55
chem|stnot bootlooping yet16:56
chem|stweird it behaves just the same as before...16:57
DocScrutinizerI vote for another useless ticket to request disclosing mce source16:57
DocScrutinizersure, you changed a setting for an event that's never happening, so to say16:58
chem|stther must be some kind of fallback as it just ignores the devlock and does a tklock16:58
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: cmon, you know those don't go anywhere16:58
luke-jrNokia probably pays a PR person to deal with trying to satisfy us without actually releasing code16:59
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: # Double press [power] behaviour    # tklock - enable the touchscreen/keypad lock <default>16:59
DocScrutinizer[2010-12-10 15:55:05] <DocScrutinizer> I bet on "mce ignores as it doesn't know"17:00
chem|stDocScrutinizer: yes and setting it to something else than available makes a fallback to default17:00
chem|stat least it doesnt bootloop17:00
DocScrutinizerwon another bet :-)17:00
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chem|stbut it actualy knows devlock as it got settings for it...17:01
DocScrutinizerbut not as an option for PowerKeyDoubleAction=17:01
chem|stI want an open mce!17:01
DocScrutinizerthat's where my rant about opening useless tickets comes in17:02
DocScrutinizerheh :-D17:02
chem|stit is no magic they are doing there17:02
DocScrutinizerabsolutely not17:02
chem|stwe should replace it with acpi17:02
chem|stwhere do I need to solder the chip supporting acpi then?17:03
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javispedroimo the nearest thing to mce is gnome-power-manager, and, being a gnome program, it actually has less configurability :)17:04
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chem|stjavispedro: true17:04
DocScrutinizerand starts with g*17:04
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javispedromce is one such thing I was thinkign that could be helpful in a nonmaemo environment17:05
chem|stmost stuff starting K or G will end up in a apt-get remove --purge k$something && apt-get autoremove17:05
DocScrutinizersomething that does what mce does, ok17:05
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javispedrowhat would you use if you were designing a embedded linux thingie and needed what mce provides (screen & extra leds dimming with possibility, hotkeys, locking, etc.)17:06
chem|stsome nokian should torrent the source...17:06
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yes, I mean if it was opensource17:06
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javispedrowith posibility to override the dimming from applications.17:06
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: me, personally? odeviced of fso17:06
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javispedroaha, a custom daemon!17:07
DocScrutinizerwell, what's custom?17:07
javispedrothat fso had to design its own daemon17:07
chem|stat least the possibility to make use of mce would be nice so you don't need to start all over again17:07
infoboti heard fso is the mobile devices middleware.17:08
javispedroI've read nothing about odeviced but I'm sure it's more customizable than mce so the need for mce goes down17:08
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DocScrutinizerdon't quote me on that though, maybe it's oeventsd17:09
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chem|stfscked up brats!17:10
DocScrutinizerI never wrapped my head around the border line between the domains of those two17:10
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: kids annoying you?!17:11
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chem|stfscking with mce makes me wanna UHHHM17:14
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chem|stdoes anyone know a good obexfilebrowser gui or ncurses, as simple as possible and just enough to browse folders and transfer files?17:15
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javispedrosomething using fuse?17:17
javispedrowell, there's two fuse<->obexftp layers17:17
javispedrodunno if someone packaged them on maemo though17:17
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flexxxvHy! Any way to find out how some contacts were deleted on my phone? Some important people are suddenly missing after my phone was stolen by my brother :(17:18
chem|stwhat I never understood is why do languagefiles need to be installed for any language17:20
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chem|stfor country version there should be the native + english + spanish and thats it, everything else could be addon17:22
javispedrowell, the preloaded system is common for most territories afaik17:23
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javispedroso all you could do is erase unneeded locales after first boot17:23
javispedrobut then people would complain you cannot switch them..17:23
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DocScrutinizerstill it's probably a nice idea to have a small script doing exactly that17:26
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* DocScrutinizer ponders to torture lis302dl chip with I2Ctools :-P17:28
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javispedrowriting a better driver?17:29
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DocScrutinizerlong term project: yes17:31
DocScrutinizershort term project: reset chip by a script, to fix lockups17:31
DocScrutinizer...without rebooting device, or even removing battery17:32
DocScrutinizerrange: OK17:32
rangeGrrr. Why do I *always* mistype in this channel >:)17:32
chem|stno more maps for n900 regarding NOS and maploader in current stae17:34
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javispedrothat is reset?17:39
javispedro(never read lis302 spec)17:39
javispedrobtw, if I were to rewrite that driver, I'd convert it to a input driver and show most of the hw options (high pass filter?) via sysfs17:40
DocScrutinizerit resets the calibration register in lis302 to factory trimming17:40
javispedrodid you pinpoint the problem you had?17:41
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: exactly17:41
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: the problem of lis302 lockup? looks like massive decalibration17:41
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javispedroyep, that one17:41
DocScrutinizerso restoring factory calibration should fix it. Could be done by a cron job17:42
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javispedrohappens often to you? hmm17:42
DocScrutinizerI always notice it when call-ui autorotate doesn't work anymore17:43
DocScrutinizeras I rarely ever use the phone it goes unnoticed for several days17:43
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, on that note, sometimes when hildon-desktop is improperly restarted, it stops rotating till the next reboot17:44
DocScrutinizerans as I even more rarely reboot, it stays like that for maybe a month. So I encountered the issue like 4 times during last 4 months17:45
MohammadAGopening a stacked window kicks rotation back into place17:45
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: my problem is clearly related to lis302 though17:45
DocScrutinizerliqacceltest shows weird results17:45
MohammadAGI just felt like mentioning it :P17:45
chem|stok see maps again... installed all Europe... now listed with new version... iceland only :(17:46
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: the definitely weird thing about lis302 decalib is: I did a powerdown this noon, and 3h later (1h ago) the autorotation was borked, so I felt like removing battery is the only thing that fixes it. Might be there's something messing it up rather short time after reboot though17:50
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* MohammadAG wonders if the song list in the stock media player is a custom widget17:50
MohammadAGI see no widget that provides the gray text areas and the track length17:50
* alterego sighs17:50
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javispedroMohammadAG: it probably is a custom gtk cell renderer, like modest ones.17:51
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alteregoYeah, it's a list view.17:51
alteregoEasy to replicate in Qt17:51
alteregogood learning experience too, have fun :D17:51
MohammadAGI have a list view, but I want the gray text and tracks :P17:51
alteregoYes, you need to implement a nice delegate to do it.17:52
lardmanurgh, delegates17:53
Maceranybody know how to right click from the maemo vnc client?17:53
* DocScrutinizer cackles17:53
MohammadAGMacer, use a mouse and hostmode17:54
* DocScrutinizer cackles even more17:54
Macerno easier way to do it? like hold alt and tap? :)17:54
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javispedroMacer: have you tried the volume -/+ buttons? that is how it used to work on the n8x0...17:54
DocScrutinizerhold shift - is the mac method :-P17:54
MacerDocScrutinizer: tried that17:55
Macermac is ctrl17:55
javispedroblargh. bad system.17:55
DocScrutinizerumm, I got no mac, so maybe you're right :-D17:55
javispedroso if I try to do it the proper way and request for permission to play music, the system tells me I'm allowed, but then mutes my stream.17:56
javispedroof course, If I say nothing, it does not mute my stream.17:56
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* javispedro goes back to reading the terse documentation17:56
DocScrutinizererrr wut?17:56
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Macerah. nm17:57
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Macerjust needed to get task manager to run and there is ctrl alt del in the vnc menu17:57
DocScrutinizerMacer: no, nm won't work17:57
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lardman|homecrap talktalk connection17:58
DocScrutinizeranybody joining for a doener?17:58
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DocScrutinizerok, cya then17:58
alteregoa what?17:59
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Macerall funned out with ssh tunneled vnc heh18:02
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Maceri need to get rdp going on that box18:02
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GAN900MohammadAG, how's UPnP looking?18:08
alteregougly plug n play?18:09
lardmanDocScrutinizer: hmm, it looks like playback from a CD image should already be supported by gstreamer18:09
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DocScrutinizerlardman: I'd guess as much, but the question is how it handles playback of a single song out of a CD immage, defined by cuesheet18:10
lardmanwell gst should do that apparently, but mafw probably won't be interested18:10
lardmanyou'd need cdiocddasrc though which is iin plugins-ugly18:12
lardmanhey Dave18:12
dnearylardman, Hell of a name there18:13
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dnearyWho came up with that one?18:13
lardmanno clue :)18:13
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dnearyI guess it's "CD I/O CDDA source"18:13
alteregoCan you not "mount" audio cds?18:13
dnearyalterego, You have to buy them dinner first.18:14
lardmanalterego: yes, that would probably be easier, but then again we're thinking of an all singing all dancing media player here ;)18:14
alteregobecause out of the box gstreamer will handle the audio format.18:14
dneary(seriously though, no, you can't mount audio CDs, there's no filesystem)18:14
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dnearyAlthough I've heard of someone hacking a pseudo filesystem that mounted a CD as raw audio files18:15
alteregodneary: well that's rubbish :P18:15
DocScrutinizeryep, CDDA != ISO966018:15
alteregoYes, that's what I mean.18:15
DocScrutinizerthough I used it incorrectly18:15
dnearyalterego, What's rubbish?18:15
alteregoI've known a few OS' that do it.18:15
alteregodneary: it is a filesystem18:15
dnearyalterego, Really?18:16
alteregoit has a toc and it has audio files :P18:16
alteregoWhat else would you call it?18:16
dnearyuh, s'pose18:16
alteregoAdmittedly the line might seem grey and fuzzy, but essentially it is :)18:16
alteregoRISC OS used to handle audio CDs like that18:17
alteregoAnd I swear even windows does .. or did ..18:17
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lardmanalterego: yep18:17
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DocScrutinizernope, CDDA that's a pcm stream, with a cuesheet (=directory) unrelated. the img file usually only has the PCM stream data18:17
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dnearyalterego, You scared me away18:18
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alteregoI didn't mean to sound harsh :D18:18
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: what do you mean by image?18:19
alteregoI thought we were talking about, say, a dev entry?18:19
DocScrutinizerthe data file used by e.g xcdroast to burn a CD from18:19
alteregoOooo. you're talking about that crap18:20
DocScrutinizerno, we're not talking about playback of /dev/cdrom18:20
alteregoI usually just use ".iso" plain images.18:20
DocScrutinizerI asked for playback of images18:20
DocScrutinizeriso is for data CDs18:21
alteregoSo you want this media player to plau .bin files with a .cue?18:21
alteregoDocScrutinizer: iso is a common extension for an image file of an optical disk18:21
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alteregoI know it sounds like it should be related to iso9660 but it really isn't18:21
valdyniso is a common extension for the image of the data track on an optical disk18:22
valdynnot of the whole disk18:22
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alteregoIt's not like you use .udf for dvds is it.18:22
DocScrutinizertoc != data18:22
alteregoOh yes, good oint ..18:22
alterego-point ..18:22
alteregoHave you tried renaming the .bin file .wav :)18:23
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valdynmplayer will probably play it straight18:23
lardmanyeah it can I think18:23
DocScrutinizerthat, though it *might* work, wouldn't allow playback of a single song of a CD img18:23
lardmancan if you know the offset times18:24
alteregoDocScrutinizer: no, but seek and reading the .cue would.18:24
DocScrutinizerthat's what the cuesheet is for18:24
alteregoO cddb ..18:24
alteregoor cddb ...18:24
alteregotbh, I've not used CDs in bloody ages :)18:25
javispedroalterego: windows does "mount" cddas as kind of a filesystem, but it makes as much sense as mounting a dvd video where chapters = files18:25
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DocScrutinizeralterego: tbh I never felt happy with crappy mp318:25
javispedroand in fact virtually no application uses windows' cddafs abstraction and just plays cddas directly18:25
alteregoDocScrutinizer: meh :P18:25
alteregojavispedro: so?18:25
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javispedroit makes no sense; a cdda should be considered as large pcm stream.18:26
alteregoI'm not disagreeing with you, but I still think it depends how you look at it.18:27
DocScrutinizerI want to hear CD album without gaps between the songs that are meant to fade one into the next18:27
alteregoSingle file concatenated files, bluergh18:27
valdynDocScrutinizer: amarok cant do that?18:27
DocScrutinizernot sure about amarok18:28
DocScrutinizerit might know how to handle cuesheets18:28
alteregoStill, without the cue you wont be able to infur a cddb entry either.18:28
DocScrutinizeror really play seamless gapless18:28
alteregoDocScrutinizer: how do you invisage this working?18:29
alteregoideally ..18:29
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lardmanhmm, mafw renderer destroys the pipeline and rebuilds it between each playlist entry18:30
DocScrutinizerideally... the player reads in a cuesheet and converts it to song objects that have start & end pointers into a .bin18:30
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alteregoWell, we could add .cue support to tracker18:31
lardmanwell the mafw source parses the cue file and allows these objects to be added to the mafw playlist, then they are passed to the renderer which will call a gst source element which can extract the audio18:31
alteregoand .cue support to mafw18:31
DocScrutinizerif you got a playlist that has consecutive songs from same img, then the player pipeline should get fed with a single consecutive file to playback, I guess18:31
valdynI dont see the point, flac is fine18:31
alteregovaldyn: for you, DocScrutinizer is special :P18:32
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lardmandocscrutinizer: won't work like that with the way the renderer is setup18:32
lardmanbut it will appear to work like that if we can get gapless to work with the gst renderer18:32
DocScrutinizerlardman: that's why I suggested you check carefully your architecture18:33
alteregolardman: does mafw reconstruct the pipline every track?18:33
alteregoI guess it must do ..18:33
lardmanwell i see no reason why it can't work, assuming the renderer can be made to not destroy if the next file is the same type18:33
lardmanalterego: yes18:33
lardmanlol @ this comment in the source:18:34
lardman * Constructs gst pipeline18:34
lardman *18:34
lardman * FIXME: Could the same pipeline be used for playing all media instead of18:34
lardman *  constantly deleting and reconstructing it again?18:34
lardman */18:34
alteregoHas anyone looked at grillo?18:35
DocScrutinizererrm, I'm using it18:35
DocScrutinizerif that counts18:35
lardmanalterego: no, MohammadAG was wanting to stick with mafw so we remain compatiable with other stuff atm18:35
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DocScrutinizerlardman: ??18:36
alteregolardman: I understand, I did push him that way myself.18:36
GAN900I kinda want to thank that post18:37
DocScrutinizerlardman: is grilo breaking mafw?18:37
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alteregoStill, ...18:37
lardmanDocScrutinizer: not sure, I thought grilo was a replacement for mafw18:37
javispedroDocScrutinizer: grilo is api incompatible18:37
DocScrutinizerhmm, so I dunno what grilo is then18:38
javispedrothere's afaik a plugin for mafw to be able to use grilo sources iirc18:38
alteregoJust making another media player seems pointless for an OS that (at least in my mind) will be a minority on N900s in 6 months18:38
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javispedroalterego: sure! (goes check Fremantle on his N810)18:38
lardmanalterego: indeed, but that depends on how fast Meego matures18:38
DocScrutinizerthere's a plugin for mediaplayer to use grilo select dialogs, for files, radios, youtube?18:38
MohammadAGalterego, mafw for now, Qt's APIs can be used in 6 months18:39
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yes18:39
lardmanis it worth trying to implement gapless and various extra sources then?18:39
DocScrutinizeraiui via menu->plugins(grilo)->files you can select media that isn't shown by mediaplayer tracker-based selections18:40
DocScrutinizerand add them to playlist as usual18:40
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alteregoMohammadAG: but you're mimmicking the ux, which isn't _that_ great :P18:41
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DocScrutinizerlardman: if it's not worth to implement it to maemo-mohmediaplayer, then this app is not worth being written at all18:41
alteregomohammediaplayer? :D18:42
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* alterego chuckles18:42
DocScrutinizergood one18:42
javispedrodoes anyone know from head which process implements org.maemo.Playback.Manager?18:42
lardmanquite, well I reckon we chip in and get Meego working well enough18:42
* MohammadAG slaps alterego 18:42
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alteregoI was just thinking why not replace mafw with grillo18:43
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: too late, that's a name too good to ever vanish18:44
alteregoThough, if mafw can use grillo, that's even better.18:44
MohammadAGalterego, why replace mafw and break tons (k, I'm exaggerating) of apps18:44
lardmanBasically it should be quite simple to add the existing mafw stuff, but I'm unsure whether it's worth extending mafw assuming it's not going to be used in the future18:45
alteregoI think my app is the only one you'd break18:45
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: what the F* would break when one app is using a different lib?18:45, your status updater which you're rewriting in C++, qwerty12's status applet and message-like notifications18:45
javispedrothe entire reason for mohammediaplayer to exist is not wanting to replace maemo =)18:45
alteregoWell, that and the headphoned18:45
javispedronot yet, at least.18:45
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, cause it's being replaced18:45
MohammadAG(the stock app)18:45
alteregoThis, is why I'm not getting heavily involved :P18:45
lardmanjavispedro: I don't subscribe to that though18:45
MohammadAGalterego, you hate maemo?18:46
MohammadAGalterego, hey, you could still use #ifdef!18:46
alteregoNo, I love it, but I do think working in alignment wth meego s better.18:46
luke-jrI reckon we write ebuilds for all the few useful MeeGo components and run Gentoo.18:46
lardmanbloody Gentoo18:46
wmaronehold on, can't take phonecalls my phone is compiling18:47
lardmanwell Meego will be finished by the time it's all built ;)18:47
luke-jrwmarone: N900 isn't a phone18:47
javispedroluke-jr: willing to host a N900 binhost? I'd use it :)18:47
luke-jrlardman: but MeeGo isn't a phone18:47
luke-jrjavispedro: I already do18:47
wmaroneluke-jr: partially ;)18:47
luke-jrbut MeeGo isn't Gentoo*18:47
alteregoI see any rather large effort on solely maemo as kind of pointless, bug fixes and stuff fine. But an entire media player?18:47
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DocScrutinizeralterego: writing an app that's not easily portable between both worlds definitely is a dead end path18:47
luke-jralterego: Gentoo!18:48
lardmanalterego: actually a media player should be quite simple using mafw, but yes I agree with your sentiment18:48
alteregoWhich, again I wouldn't have issue with, except you're mimmicking the maemo stock player, which is rubbish :P18:48
javispedroluke-jr: url binhost?18:48
luke-jrjavispedro: um, small problem w/ that actually18:49
luke-jrI don't have the resources to comply w/ GPLs18:49
javispedroI'm not interested in booting it, so no problem for me18:49
luke-jrso I'll share it on the condition you agree that it is for non-GPL'd bins only ;)18:49
alteregoAnyhow, I'll stop ranting and try to port meegodiaplayer to maemo for you :P18:49
alterego(the movie player is quite sweet)18:50
luke-jrjavispedro: see also
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luke-jrjavispedro: haven't updated in a couple of months tho, doing that now18:50
javispedroluke-jr: no hurries, I don't know when I'll find time to build it18:51
luke-jrbuild what? :P18:51
javispedroand thanks :)18:52
luke-jrthe big downside of the GPL is the burden it puts on people who just want to share binaries of publicly available code :/18:52
lardmanif someone asks you for the code, you can download it and send it to them can't you?18:53
luke-jrlardman: I suppose…18:53
luke-jrbut what if they ask for the complete code of everything?18:53
luke-jrI have to spend hours tracking it down18:53
lardmanyeah, but equally your build scripts must grab the code too, so I'm sure it can't be that hard18:54
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luke-jrbut then, I suppose I could chalk that up to cost of getting them the copy…18:54
luke-jrlardman: they do, but I wipe that dir regularly18:54
luke-jrdon't have that much free space x.x18:54
javispedrothere's also some interesting problems -- there are some ways you can build firefox that make it unredistributable18:54
javispedro(the binary)18:54
javispedrobecause of trademark issues18:54
WizzupOnly if you compile with firefox branding18:55
lardmanMohammadAG: so what's your take on the whole thing then?18:55
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lardmanMohammadAG: will you want to stick with Maemo, or do you think it will be some significant time before Meego is day-to-day usable, or do you want to do this to prove a point18:56
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lardmanall of which are acceptable explanations18:56
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FauxFauxMmm, remvoing an Exchange account doesn't remove all the appointments for said account; is there a way to do that?18:58
DocScrutinizeror do you want to implement it in a way it's easily ported to meego18:58
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MohammadAGlardman, I just don't think MeeGo will be usable on the N900, so on the N900, I'm sticking to M518:59
DocScrutinizerI'm on the same page here18:59
JartzaI'm on a chair19:00
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DocScrutinizerI'm on the run, for  doener...19:00
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javispedroI'm on some universe.19:00
javispedrocan anyone point me for directions?19:00
alteregofor whgat?19:00
luke-jrjavispedro: please read
MohammadAGalterego, been looking at the code you gave me once, .call("GetProperty", "button.state.value"), where did you get button.state.value from?19:02
alteregoThe interface is more interesting mohammad19:03
luke-jrjavispedro: I already have rules in place to give a 403 Forbidden to any attempts to download the binpkgs for Nokia closed stuff ;)19:03
javispedroluke-jr: "I agree" *click-wrap*19:04
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MohammadAGalterego, I'm just trying to do dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer string:volume19:06
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javispedrodoesn't mafw have qt bindings?19:07
javispedrothis reminds me. MAFW appeared on the harmattan sw stack.19:07
javispedroI wonder if that's still the case.19:07
alteregojavispedro: probably, or its' been replaced by grillo19:08
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luke-jr2a01? that's a new /1619:08
alteregoHarmattan will, I imagine be a lot like what we have now, just with meego-touch on top ^.^19:08
alteregoAKA DUI19:08
MohammadAGalterego, grillo is planned for Maemo 819:08
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MohammadAGMaemo will follow Windows's path19:09
MohammadAGMaemo 6 will suck, 7 will rock, 8 will be DOA19:09
luke-jrare you complimenting Windows 7?19:09
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* Arkenoi got strange impression that nokia is discouraging using "linux" APIs (gstreamer/evolution/pulseaudio/whatever) in meego software and is trying to push everyone to writing in Qt and Qt-related APIs (similaro to ones ported to symbian. This means we basically get "yet another mobile platform" which definitely sucks.19:12
ke^windows 7 is from the deepest shit.19:12
luke-jrArkenoi: wtf?19:12
luke-jrArkenoi: gstreamer/evolution/pulseaudio/whatever are GNOME APIs, not Linux19:12
luke-jrand GOOD. GNOME needs to die19:12
javispedroArkenoi: it is not an impression.19:12
javispedroArkenoi: it's what they're doing. They want to sell to you the fact that "you'd be able to run your app under Symbian".19:13
MohammadAGSymbian is dead19:13
luke-jrjavispedro: or Windows. or Mac. or KDE>19:13
luke-jror Android.19:13
MohammadAGAndroid has Qt?19:13
luke-jrit has a port in works at least19:13
javispedrovirtually any platform has Qt. Doesn't matter until it has half of Mobility ported.19:13
ke^Only reason nokia should keep symbian alive is low end mobile phones. Only place symbian suits.19:14
luke-jrno ofc not19:14
ke^else where no need.19:14
luke-jrke^: phones are dumb19:14
Arkenoijavispedro, luke-jr gnome apis are now integral part of linux desktop, like it or not. Dumping it means the raising development costs. It would be similar to yet another IOS or Android, self-contained environment.19:14
blackthornecan you read/send SMS with n900 threw your computer?19:14
luke-jrArkenoi: NO19:14
javispedroArkenoi: note that I agree with you.19:14
luke-jrArkenoi: GNOME APIs are NOT integral to anything19:14
* alterego continues porting mtf19:14
* MohammadAG sighs19:15
* luke-jr has glib/gtk blocked on his PCs19:15
javispedroArkenoi: but we discussed this many times around =)19:15
alteregoand I'm going to try and port meego video player19:15
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alteregoThen you wont have to worry about video support MohammadAG :)19:15
javispedroalterego: mtf is already ported. at least older versions of it (for 4.6)19:15
MohammadAGalterego, I'm not dumping the project19:15
alteregojavispedro: didn't compile for PR1.3 it seems it's no longer in the repo19:15
alteregoBeside the latest git should be better ..19:16
MohammadAGalterego, MeeGo on the N900 is a concept, nothing usable19:16
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alteregos/MeeGo/Mohammedia-player/ :P19:17
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MohammadAGalterego, sigh19:17
alteregoMeeGo works, it might not be prime time ready, but it works19:17
ArkenoiI found maemo to be so attractive because it is not "mobile" or "embedded". It is slightly (maybe not enough) optimized for touch UI and low power consumption, but you basically may compile any desktop program changing ONLY UI (and even not changing anything if you need it running right now)19:17
Arkenoilosing this feature would be a disaster19:17
MohammadAGalterego, riiight...19:17
alteregoMaking it better should be on our priority list, not plugging holes in a sinking ship :P19:17
MohammadAGit's a lost cause on the N900's hardware alterego19:18
alteregoThat is complete rubbish19:18
MohammadAGnot really19:18
blackthorneArkenoi: low power comsumption? how long does each charge last?19:18
alteregoThe N900 is more than capable of running MeeGo19:18
luke-jrArkenoi: that's how it always is19:18
MohammadAGalterego, you've been sounding like a Nokian recently :P19:18
luke-jralterego: not really19:18
alteregoHell, with the correct optimizations MeeGo should run quite well on an N8x0 ..19:18
alteregoluke-jr: yes, really.19:19
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luke-jralterego: 3D-less MeeGo maybe19:19
alteregoWhy 3Dless?19:19
MohammadAGs/correct\ optimizations/stripping\ down/19:19
alteregoMohammadAG: rubbish19:19
luke-jralterego: because SGX is closed19:19
alteregoDoesn't need to be stripped.19:19
MohammadAGthen why push the N9?19:19
Arkenoiblackthorne, much longer than any android running connected :-)19:19
alteregoluke-jr: m'hmm, aaaand ..19:19
luke-jrand MBX even more closed19:19
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MohammadAGluke-jr, that's kinda invalid, MeeGo will get a new driver for the SGX19:20
javispedrothat might or might not work on the N900.19:20
luke-jrMohammadAG: why?19:20
blackthorneArkenoi: I just want to know if everything is normal with my recently acquired n900. How long does it handle?19:20
MohammadAGluke-jr, vsync19:20
luke-jrblackthorne: should last a week or so without SIM/WiFi19:20
alteregoMohammadAG: "stripped down" is bullshit, do you think your laptop runs any slower when your system is 2G or when it's 250G?19:20
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luke-jrMohammadAG: why would ImgTec provide such a driver?19:20
blackthorneare many people using n900 without SIM?19:21
alteregoIt's about optimizing the system for the hardware. And MeeGo is pretty much the same as Maemo.19:21
MohammadAGalterego, I wasn't referring to storage19:21
alteregoYou said stripped.19:21
javispedroalterego: the same, they only changed the distro and the toolkit!19:21
MohammadAGdoes your laptop run slower with 256MB RAM?19:21
alteregoWhy else woud you "strip" ..19:21
Arkenoiblackthorne, 1-2 days depending on cpu load online (given you have wifi coverage most of the time), 3-4 days if internet connection is disabled (but there is no good reason to abuse it like that)19:21
alteregojavispedro: marginal overhead difference ..19:21
luke-jrMohammadAG: GTK uses more memory than Qt19:21
luke-jrand is slower19:21
alteregoAnd no one will know ..19:22
luke-jrjust moving to Qt should provide a performance boost19:22
blackthorneArkenoi: with internet connection disabled most of the time, I can't go over 2 days19:22
alteregoAnd with the hardware floating point support ala neon extensions we'll get a pretty hefty performance boost.19:22
luke-jrblackthorne: I've seen N900 battery level go *up* when in Offline Mode, idle :p19:22
luke-jrblackthorne: your N900 is new?19:22
luke-jror used?19:22
alteregoluke-jr: I've seen it do that when not in offline mode :P19:22
blackthornenew, it hasn't more than a week19:22
blackthorne200 euros19:23
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MohammadAGalterego, anyways, I'm not making the switch on the N90019:23
ArkenoiActually Maemo is quite well-balanced. I was afraid it would be something like Zaurus , "pocked desktop" with extremely questionable PDA usability, but it turned out to be just fine.19:23
MohammadAGso, I'd rather be the captain that goes down with the sinking ship19:23
infobotArkenoi meant: Actually Maemo is quite well-balanced. I was afraid it would be something like Zaurus , "pocket desktop" with extremely questionable PDA usability, but it turned out to be just fine.19:23
alteregoMohI'm not telling you to switch, I'm telling you to align :P19:23
MohammadAGhelp with what?19:23
luke-jrArkenoi: actually, Maemo and Zaurus aren't so different19:24
alteregoI know it's not ready yet, but the more we push the quicker it will become a viable, and better maemo replacement.19:24
MohammadAGI tried getting the SDK installed, it keeps telling me the URL can't be resolved or whatever, so I was like meh, and left it19:24
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alteregoMohammadAG: there is a lot of things that need doing :P19:24
Arkenoiluke-jr, but i refused to buy Zaurus because it sucked as PDA big time.19:24
MohammadAGalterego, FYI, while I had no knowledge in programming a year ago, I had the Maemo 5 SDK installed since September 200919:24
Arkenoii had "pocket desktop PCs" sine 1994 and i know it sucks :-)19:25
alteregoooOOOOoo :P19:25
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Arkenoiwell, it ruled until "real" PDAs came to the scene19:25
yacc_Any way to "share" a webpage?19:25
blackthorneI'm considering this gadget as n900 emergency charger19:25
Arkenoi(palm does not qualify, though)19:25
alteregoMohammadAG: my point is, I'm not going to be around much longer, in #maemo, so if you want me I'll be there :P19:25
MohammadAGalterego, and while the instructions weren't noob friendly, they worked, unlike
MohammadAGalterego, I'm on #meego, have been for about two months I think19:26
MohammadAG#meego-meeting too, forgot to part19:26
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luke-jrArkenoi: PDAs suck. get over it.19:27
luke-jrArkenoi: I was always quite happy with my Zaurus19:27
MohammadAGmeh, it's downloading now19:27
Arkenoiwell, i was relatively happy with Prolinear pocket PC and HP 200lx19:28
Arkenoiearly WinCE sucked and so Palm did19:28
alteregoWell, mtf is buiklding quite nicely for me in scratchbox19:28
alteregoIf I get it working I'll upload the new version to -devel19:28
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luke-jrArkenoi: Windows always sucks19:28
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luke-jrPalm was only a PDA19:28
alteregoThen I'll see about porting meego-core apps19:28
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luke-jrZaurus/Maemo = handheld laptops19:29
luke-jrnot PDAs/phones19:29
MohammadAG...framework, got it19:29
alteregoAlready got a bug report for meego from this ;)19:29
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Arkenoibut since i got Nokia 9000 i did not ever consider to return to a "pocket desktop".19:29
alteregoseveral files wont compile because newlines are missing from the end :D19:29
MohammadAG9000? there's a new one, already?!19:29
alterego5 and counting19:29
luke-jralterego: um, C/C++/Qt don't require newlines at all19:29
ArkenoiMohammadAG, nope, that was the oldest one :-)19:29
javispedroluke-jr: wild guess -Wall -Werror19:30
luke-jrArkenoi: I'm fine with KDE on a C760-sized device19:30
Arkenoi1998, actually 9000i19:30
alteregoluke-jr: they do under some circumstances.19:30
alteregoExactly ;)19:30
alteregoAnd with certain options19:30
luke-jrstrip the \s :P19:30
alteregoIt's a mixture of both.19:30
luke-jrhm, still #ifdefs and such19:31
luke-jrArkenoi: or were you using the crappy tall Zaurii?19:31
alteregoThe point is, if it doesn't compile with the default compiler flags and settings, it's broken.19:31
alteregoHere's another one.19:31
luke-jralterego: if the default compiler flags include -Werror, THAT is broken19:31
alteregoOh, this is a real error.19:32
alteregodebug build I guess.19:32
alteregounused variable19:32
alteregoBut obviously with these flags ..19:32
luke-jralterego: if the default compiler flags include -Werror, THAT is broken19:32
* MohammadAG stabs 1:40 download time19:32
alteregoluke-jr: pfft, why?19:32
luke-jrI'm not aware of the C spec saying it is mandatory to have a newline at EOF19:32
luke-jrnor that unused variables are forbidden19:33
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alteregoIt doesn't really matter that some good practices aren't in the specs.19:33
luke-jrso it's valid C code19:33
alteregoThe spec doesn't tell you how to code well.19:33
alteregogive a scht :P19:33
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* MohammadAG ponders getting an Aava19:35
javispedrocan you?19:35
alteregoHrm, interesting ..19:35
* MohammadAG wonders why19:35
MohammadAGisn't it available for sale?19:36
javispedrothey do not sell it yet afaik19:36
MohammadAGoh :/19:36
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Kaadlajkyou dont want aava anyway :P19:38
MohammadAGcause I cba to backup my SD card, dd an image to it, restore the backup I made each time I need to update MeeGo19:38
alteregoUSB HOST MohammadAG :P19:39
alteregoWhat are you doing using old micro sd cards :P19:39
alteregoUSB host is the futuuuuuure :D19:39
MohammadAGalterego, compile 2.6.35 with the patches, kthxbye19:39
alteregoYes, I spent 5 quid on a 4G Micro SD19:40
alteregoMohammadAG: I mean't why aren't you using external USB devices for your user storage.19:40
* MohammadAG had a 4GB microSD card, it shows -110 now19:40
alteregoLeaving the SD free for MEeGo19:40
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MohammadAGerror -110, unable to initialize or something19:40
MohammadAGalterego, I have 3 batteries, and I barely get a day's use19:40
alteregoYou must be some user :P19:41
MohammadAGmight get another battery tbh19:41
alteregoOr learn to charge :P19:42
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MohammadAGalterego, I charge all 3 daily19:42
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MohammadAGone in the N900, one in an external charger, and the last in the N95 (muhahaha)19:42
Arkenoiluke, none of it appeared to be usable in zaurus "golden era". I found semi-reasonable UI to be written somewhere circa 200719:43
Gh0styhello luke-jr19:43
Gh0styyou awake again? :P19:43
Gh0styor still ...19:43
alteregoYou see, this is why, when I'm using a computer, my N900 is always plugged into it.19:43
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RoksteadyLame question probably, but I got my N900 today... I already have a corporate Exchange account, so I can't use it for Google Contacts, Calendar and Mail.. what to do?19:43
FauxFauxYou can use both Google and Exchange accounts at the same time on your n900..19:44
javispedrothe source for ohm-plugins-misc has been released!19:44
RoksteadyFauxFaux: Yeah but I want the Contacts sync, as far as I understand it you need MfE for that?19:44
javispedroweren't you complaining about maemo policy stuff being closed??19:45
MohammadAGalterego, funny, I just got the Battery Full notification19:45
MohammadAGit's connected to my PC when I'm using Qt Creator19:45
Arkenoibtw do we have sdio? i want to use this thing:
alteregoGood for you, you're getting it right then ;)19:45
luke-jrArkenoi: more like 200419:45
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FauxFauxRoksteady: So synch with the corporate Exhcange..?19:45
alteregoMohammadAG: stop using it to watch porn whilst its' connected then? :P19:45
MohammadAGalterego, still, I don't get a day's use since I'm not near my PC when I'm out19:45
RoksteadyFauxFaux: I want to synch with my Gmail account.19:45
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MohammadAGalterego, who uses a 3" screen for porn when it's connected to a 15" laptop?19:46
MohammadAGwith HDMI output19:46
luke-jrporn should be criminal >:O19:46
FauxFauxRoksteady: 10/17:44:24 < FauxFaux> You can use both Google and Exchange accounts at the same time on your n900..19:46
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* FauxFaux slaps luke-jr.19:46
Shapeshifterluke-jr: wat19:46
FauxFauxHetrosexual consensual porn should be illegal, perhaps. ¬_¬19:46
MohammadAGalterego, I do have xVST compiled for it though19:47
luke-jrFauxFaux: you can't consent to abuse19:47
Shapeshifterluke-jr: are you sersious?19:47
Shapeshifteroh dear.19:47
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FauxFauxShapeshifter: <319:48
MohammadAGdoes MeeGo support multitouch atm?19:48
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FauxFauxluke-jr: So I shouldn't be allowed to send you a picture of my pen^Wtits?19:48
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alteregowhat's the short cut for installing builddeps?19:48
wmaroneFauxFaux: please don't get him started19:49
luke-jrFauxFaux: not if it's porn19:49
MohammadAGapt-get build-dep19:49
alteregoHrm, what if the package isn't in the repo ..19:49
alteregoOh well, nevermind.19:50
MohammadAGxargs :P19:50
Shapeshifterluke-jr: "let's make it illegal. that will fix all our problems" - oh wait... prostitution is already illegal in many states, and we're seeing how well that is working out. women can't even go to the police if something happens19:50
Shapeshifterluke-jr: also, what business do *you* have with what other people do with their bodies.19:50
wmaroneShapeshifter: please, not you too19:50
luke-jrShapeshifter: I'm not the government.19:50
* javispedro finally gets to know the insane logic behind playback policies in maemo.... *drums*19:50
luke-jrand criminals shouldn't expect legal protection19:50
Shapeshifterwmarone: okay, okay. I'll be quiet.19:50
Shapeshifterluke-jr: have a nice day living in your dream bubble.19:51
Gh0styluke-jr: the small programm you created for me this morning does work but it pops up a "select connection" window :x19:52
luke-jrGh0sty: wtf O.o19:52
Gh0stynot sure why it tries to make a connection to wifi or 3G for gps ? :/19:52
luke-jrit doesn't.19:52
luke-jrit opens a phonet socket to talk to GPS19:52
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Gh0stybut you have to run it as root right?19:53
luke-jrsomeone could probably do it in Python from a user19:53
luke-jrusing the Qt APIs19:53
Gh0styas user i get an main: assertion 'ack >=0' failed on line 6119:54
Gh0styand when I go at it as root ...19:54
Gh0styit gives "no connections available" -> select connection dialog19:54
Gh0stywhen i dismiss that one I get the cell number in the shell19:54
Gh0stybut ... after a while that select connection dialog comes back even ...19:55
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ke^wrong place20:04
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luke-jrGh0sty: maybe it's unrelated20:06
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Gh0stynono i restarted my phone ...20:11
Gh0stythen its gone20:11
Gh0styand its reproducible :p20:11
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Gh0styhold on a sec20:14
Gh0stylet me check that against a ps aux ...20:14
Gh0stywhats going on exactly ...20:14
Gh0styjust gonna connect it to my pc so I have a descent screen to compare :)20:15
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javispedromy n900 suddently died =)20:50
javispedron900 battery20:50
Arkenoitoresbe, wow, you have *several* pdp-11s? I have just one, one VAX and one pdp-11 russian clone20:50
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javispedroaccording to bme it was at 50%, shutted down, and now it's been emergency charging for ~30 minutes (so it stopped)20:51
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javispedroremoved battery, inserted again, boots instantely, 50% again20:52
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: shit20:56
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: clean the contacts20:56
DocScrutinizeror has cell been too cold/warm?20:57
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SpeedEviljavispedro: Migy you have joggled it?20:57
javispedroit was on a table ,but I think DocScrutinizer nailed it with warm->cold20:57
SpeedEviljavispedro: If so - take the batery out, clean the contacts, and perhaps use a pin or something to bend them ever so slightly harder20:58
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RST38hwell. moo.20:59
RST38hheya javispedro20:59
javispedrowas using SGX so it was quite hot (after the surprise shutdown it had already gotten to room temperature though)20:59
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javispedrohey RST38h, I have some free time so I'll fix preenv git20:59
luke-jrbe careful20:59
luke-jrmy N810 battery fried ☹20:59
javispedroluke-jr: well, if it was the battery one ... :P21:01
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you by any lucky incidence got the syslog of this event?21:06
javispedroDocScrutinizer: nah, don't run syslog and even if I do I usually log to tmpfs21:06
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DocScrutinizersyslog and load applet should come with stock system config21:10
javispedronot worried about nand wear?21:11
javispedrospecially with all the traffic in syslog due to overly verbose gnome debug messages21:11
DocScrutinizernot really. For MP though, yes. Should have init.d/s99syslog-late:21:12
javispedroSorry, MP here means?21:13
DocScrutinizercat /var/log/syslog >>~user/syslog && syslogd -c && rm /var/log/syslog; (MassProduct)21:13
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DocScrutinizeralso needs logrotate then, for the noobs21:17
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DocScrutinizerand cleanup21:17
johnsq2gb syslog21:17
DocScrutinizeruhm, what?21:17
DocScrutinizerwho? where?21:18
johnsqDocScrutinizer: when ~/user/syslog isn't cleaned21:18
DocScrutinizer[2010-12-10 20:17:36] <DocScrutinizer> and cleanup21:18
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* DocScrutinizer wonders how to heat up his dev device :-P21:21
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DocScrutinizersince Nokia still refuses to give hints about how to handle such a situation, when replacing bme, I guess we're on our own for testing limits and reaction tactics21:22
DocScrutinizers/testing/finding out about/21:23
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: since Nokia still refuses to give hints about how to handle such a situation, when replacing bme, I guess we're on our own for finding out about limits and reaction tactics21:23
javispedroDocScrutinizer: run a fullscreen game all while downloading from 3g :)21:24
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: be sure to make a loud stink and blame Nokia if you make it explode21:24
SpeedEvilMy device is coincidentally in the oven.21:25
DocScrutinizerblame? blame???? I'll sue them from EU to USA and back!21:25
SpeedEvil~60C for a couple of days - it got a little damp.21:26
javispedroand then sue it again!21:26
SpeedEvilAnd was doing wierd things.21:26
SpeedEvilSo, just in case21:26
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, is your power button broken as in doesn't click? Or doesn't get detected?21:27
DocScrutinizersee, Nokia says they can't release info about battery management as that's legally questionable. Regarding liability and responsibility. I however say I asked them several times, and they knew I'm already messing around with charging, and I asked them how to do it safe way. They refused to help. MAybe that's also some kind of responsibility the had21:28
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: both21:29
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, open the device and move the motherboard a bit21:29
MohammadAGapparently, the buttons are just a rubber piece that clicks a button under it21:29
DocScrutinizeraah, no. it clicks fine21:30
DocScrutinizerbut needs a very special touch to actually work sometimes21:31
MohammadAGspecial device I guess ;P21:31
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DocScrutinizeryeah, special nokia treatment21:31
DocScrutinizertoo much for a small switch21:31
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DocScrutinizerweren't the vikings from Finland? Or Norway? umm21:33
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trxim trying to create a .deb22:04
trxwhen i try dpgk-buildpackage inside the scratchbox it gives an error22:04
trx: Scratchbox has unsatisfying version: debhelper 5.0.4222:04
trxwhat the hell?22:04
FauxFauxIt's unsatisfying.22:05
trxi figured that much, thank you.22:06
jukhi, i don't see pictures in evopedia, using this Wikipedia en (2010-06-22) (10.5 GB, via BitTorrent)22:08
* DocScrutinizer hums the notorious Roling Stones song22:08
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javispedro"unsatisfying" version?22:12
javispedrois this a non C locale translated message, or is it the original one?22:13
* DocScrutinizer starts to sing loud "I can get no!!! Sa Tis Fac Tion!!"22:13
RST38hUS prosecutors plan to file spying charges against Julian Assange soon in connection with the publishing of secret diplomatic memos on the WikiLeaks website.22:15
RST38h"Serious, active investigation"22:15
* RST38h snickers22:15
NooBmonk3yooo i like this, my football team finally get a match shown on tv, and i watch, they score... yay good timing22:16
erstazijuk: probably the images were not included22:16
RST38hnot morons, no22:16
jukerstazi: ah22:16
erstazijuk: I used the tarball from the earlier date (2010-01-??) as it is a "complete dump"22:17
RST38hjust setting goals alien to common sense22:17
alteregoWhat kind of a world do we live in when a film as crap as Twilight gets so much acknowledgement  :(22:17
alteregoI'm getting so sick of the adverts22:17
alteregoIT'S SO GAY!22:18
erstazialterego: no joke22:18
* DocScrutinizer picks up Homeland Security CEO on his way home, and beats him up for all the bad things CIA and FBI and NSA ever did22:18
RST38hWhy don'tyou turn the television off then?22:18
jukerstazi: thanks, getting one22:18
alteregoBecause I'm watching Star Trek 4!22:18
NooBmonk3yi lie, 2 goals!!!22:18
alteregoA real film :D22:18
RST38halterego: Get it off torrent and watch it on a computer22:18
RST38hOr plug computer into your tv22:18
alteregopfft, but its' on now :P22:19
alteregoWaste of bandwidth, especially going through my phone ^.^22:19
RST38h30 minutes and it will be "on" your computer22:19
alteregoIn 30 minutes Hitman is on!22:19
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* GAN900 slaps alterego.22:49
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MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, does QtMultimedia work on maemo?23:02
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  thats like asking how long is a piece of sting!23:03
NooBmonk3ypartially ;)23:03
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NooBmonk3ythe depths of it don't but the playing, recording etc does23:03
MohammadAGI need to get volume levels23:03
lcukNooBmonk3y, how long is a piece of sting?23:03
NooBmonk3ythe hardware part, selecting viewing etc no23:03
NooBmonk3ylcuk, its as long as my empty bottle of wine ;)23:03
MohammadAGthen I need to find out why I'm getting "volume" instead of the actual level23:04
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  i've not succeeded to get that yet, as far as i'm aware its something to do with QT detecting pulse, and pulse not liking qt lol23:05
trxum, did anyone had trouble while packaging with libcairo?23:05
trxspecificaly, dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for
MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, so pulseaudio's just farting in the face23:06
lcukNooBmonk3y, THANKS!23:06
lcukadded to christmas list23:06
NooBmonk3yi agree!!! :023:06
NooBmonk3ywant my address to send it? hehehe23:06
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lcukother way round :P23:06
lcukasking santa for it for myself23:06
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  farting is the polite terminology23:06
NooBmonk3ysupposedly new qt version may sort it, not holding my breath23:07
MohammadAG#include <gasmask.h> fixes it!23:07
NooBmonk3yOMG! Lcuk!!! i've found the holy grail!!
* NooBmonk3y needs to become a life long member23:08
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lcukNooBmonk3y, swine n guinness23:09
NooBmonk3ylcuk, that actually sounds quite dangerous, a bit like absynth and bacon... sits at the bottom of the stomach, and explodes lol23:09
* lcuk raises an eyebrow23:09
lcukpersonal experience?23:10
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lcukthe green elixor that oinks.23:10
lcuklardman_, heh did you smell the conversation?23:10
lcuk<NooBmonk3y> OMG! Lcuk!!! i've found the holy grail!!
*** lbt_away is now known as lbt23:10
lcukooh lbt too :P23:10
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lbtyu said b'con ?23:11
MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, not as dangerous as !23:11
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MohammadAG(might be fake, but it looks fun *laughs*)23:11
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npmis the source code available for the nokia youtube uploader app ( ) ??23:13
NooBmonk3ythat slowmo has made my day!23:13
MohammadAGnpm, probably - not23:13
npmhmmm... but i thought this was linux ... :-/23:14
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MohammadAGLinux doesn't have to be FOSS :P23:14
MohammadAGhey nicolai :)23:14
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NooBmonk3yevening Aranel23:15
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AranelNooBmonk3y: good evening to you too =)23:19
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DocScrutinizerWHEN??? is this blue highlight on missed calls in calls list supposed to vanish?23:23
MohammadAGwhen you click it23:24
DocScrutinizerseems never23:24
DocScrutinizernope, doesn't do anything23:24
jacekowskitry bleach23:24
MohammadAGcorrupt /home?23:24
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DocScrutinizerthis "phone" is such a crap23:26
MohammadAGlet's rewrite it!23:28
DocScrutinizerI'm all in23:28
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DocScrutinizercall-ui, call-history, contacts, ... ~nuke!23:29
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jacekowskihow big is call-ui23:29
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MohammadAGthe binary?23:31
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DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ll /usr/bin/rtcom-call-ui.launch23:32
DocScrutinizer-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 102752 2010-04-16 16:11 /usr/bin/rtcom-call-ui.launch23:32
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jacekowskiquite small23:44
jacekowskiconsidering that part of it is ui code23:44
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MohammadAGUI is easy to recode, but nobody's coding for maemo anymore23:48
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You`vegot mail, type /server 1 to read it.23:52
* lcuk slaps troll :P23:53
* You`ve failed.23:53
* lcuk tries again23:53
* You`ve failed. Again.23:54
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cos^if there are any x-plane pilots here, this might be of interest
alteregoyou know the 3d effect on the home screen, does anyone else think it's odd how you drag the background and not the foreground?23:57
MohammadAGalterego, install live-wallpaper, you'll lose the feeling23:58
alteregoMohammadAG: I like it, I'd just prefer it if I was dragging the foreground and the background moved in perspective.23:59
MohammadAGalterego, hildon-desktop and hildon-home are open ;)23:59
MohammadAGbut indeed I like it, it's mindfuck :P23:59
MohammadAGs/it/it\ too/23:59
infobotMohammadAG meant: but indeed I like it\ too, it's mindfuck :P23:59
MohammadAGfuck you infobot23:59

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