IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-12-06

crashanddielolcat: once that the 21 million bitcoins have been generated, the only incentive people will have to use it will be to demand fees on block generation00:00
SpeedEvilIsn't 21 million way too few?00:00
crashanddiethat is my initial feeling as well00:01
crashanddieeven though I've worked on a lot of crypto projects, bitcoin is one of those that I always looked at with a coy smile00:01
lolcatcrashanddie: Or to hide money, launder money, and such...00:01
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lolcatThe N900 is arm?00:02
crashanddielolcat: and how far do you think 21 million coins will stretch?00:02
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crashanddielolcat: say the US government accepts tax payments in bitcoins. I expect they would only need 10 years before they've gathered 90% of the coins in circulation00:02
SpeedEvilTechnically, a Bitcoin can be divided down to 8 decimals, so 0.00000001  BTC is the smallest possible amount. For convenience, the program  currently accepts only 2 decimal places.00:03
lolcatcrashanddie: How can you tax it if you cant identify the owner?00:03
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lolcatSpeedEvil: I know, loads of room for deflation :D00:04
lolcatWhat CPU does the N900 use?00:04
crashanddielolcat: I'm not saying taxing the payments themselves, I'm saying if they accept it as a form of payment00:04
SpeedEvillolcat: They can tax 'real' cash just fine.00:04
SpeedEvillolcat: ARM00:05
lolcatSpeedEvil: Real cash they can find, the money in bitcoin is hidden, no bank or anything to tell you have them00:05
crashanddieI haven't seen the practical use of bitcoins at the moment00:06
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crashanddieit's a nice idea, without a proper and fundamental idealogy behind it00:06
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infobotcrashanddie meant: it's a nice idea, without a proper and fundamental ideology behind it00:07
lolcatcrashanddie: Money laundering00:11
MohammadAGlcuk, k, libhildon package i posted makes scrolling smoother, more cpu-intensive00:12
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* alterego implements some weird QML item that allows setting child elements properties.00:17
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ShadowJK_lolcat, Omap3 SOC with Cortex A8 CPU core00:23
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jacekowskii recently looked into new compaq pc00:28
jacekowskiand there was nothing inside00:28
jacekowskimotherboard with 2 chips on it00:28
jacekowski+ cpu00:28
jacekowski+ some passives00:28
lolcatShadowJK_: What?00:28
jacekowskiit's more integrated than other stuff that is called SoC00:29
jacekowskilolcat: google00:29
trumeeanybody expert on xchat colors in N900. Currently, xchat lights up the channel tab in red on message. can it be changed so that it only displays red when my nick is mentioned?00:29
ShadowJK_lolcat, you asked about the CPU00:29
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trumee*red on any message.00:30
lolcatShadowJK_: Oh, I got that answered with simply: ARM xD00:30
trumeeRed color is what konversation shows on my desktop.00:30
lcuk_ideatrumee, settings/interface/colors00:31
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DocScrutinizertrumee: looked into color presets of xchat?00:33
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DocScrutinizertrumee: settings -> preferences -> [Colors]: Interface Colors: New message:; Highlight:;00:35
trumeelcuk, DocScrutinizer: that did it00:36
trumeeswapped the two colors.00:36
* DocScrutinizer ponders to change his settings while he's there00:36
DocScrutinizernah, got used to it00:37
trumeeKonversation shows red color, so got used to it.00:37
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DocScrutinizeron Konversation, yes :-D00:38
trumeeRed is more distracting than yellow. wanted to keep it to minimum.00:38
jacekowskiyellow is barely visible on n900 screen00:39
luke-jrI'm about to buy Atom instead of ARM …00:39
trumeeyes. new message was sort of yellowish for new message.00:39
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DocScrutinizerumm, I have no yellow used here for anything00:40
trumeeI have fire or flame dark theme for xchat.00:40
chxkonversation is ported to N900?????00:40
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luke-jrchx: it's just a recompile00:40
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: if we omit the implied "Maemo" … :D00:41
luke-jrshow me an ARM system that compares :/00:41
DocScrutinizerthat's why I say barely and not "absolutely not"00:41
jacekowskilolcat: n90000:41
trumeeis there any way to scroll through word-completion choices?00:41
lolcatjacekowski: What are we talking about?00:42
luke-jrlolcat: n81000:42
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jacekowskinot you00:42
jacekowskiluke-jr: n900 is better00:42
luke-jrjacekowski: no, it isn't.00:42
jacekowskiyes it is00:42
DocScrutinizertrumee: word completion is a piece of malware00:42
DocScrutinizertrumee: you should get rid of it00:43
trumeeDocScrutinizer, why?00:43
luke-jrjacekowski: N900 has much slower CPU, less RAM, less USB, no SATA, no Ethernet, etc00:43
darkschneidertrumee: if you discover let me know :D00:43
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jacekowskiluke-jr: you have no idea how slow atom is00:43
trumeeDocScrutinizer, sometimes it is useful.00:43
lolcatluke-jr: N810 has sata? And ethernet?00:43
DocScrutinizertrumee: rarely00:43
luke-jrlolcat: no00:43
jacekowskilolcat: 600MHz omap3 is comparable with 1.6GHz atom00:43
DocScrutinizertrumee: usually it's mindboggling and annoying00:43
luke-jrjacekowski: 2 GHz Atom > 1.6 GHz Atom00:43
* trumee wonders how iphone uses it.00:44
lolcatI dont understand why someone wanted to drag me into this discussion in the first place00:44
jacekowskithen you can go for apple tv00:44
luke-jrjacekowski: I'm looking for a router+PBX+torrent box00:44
jacekowski1GHz ARM00:44
jacekowski512M of ram00:44
jacekowskifor £9900:44
trumeeios without hw keyboard probably use it a lot.00:44
luke-jrjacekowski: Ethernet? USB? Open?00:45
jacekowskiethernet yes00:45
jacekowskiusb yes00:45
jacekowskiopen - kinda sort of ish00:45
jacekowskiyou can jailbreak it00:45
luke-jrso not at all00:45
luke-jropen means I can run a 100% GPL system on it00:45
lolcatdarkschneider: Why are you telling me this? I haven't disagred, I don't really care, and I don't want to discuss this.00:46
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darkschneiderlolcat: eheh sorry then, i should have missread :)00:46
jacekowskilolcat: but it's 4x cheaper00:47
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* DocScrutinizer laughs at jacekowski's ETAB and the confusion arising of it00:48
jacekowski~dict ETAB00:48
infobotcould not find definition for ETAB00:48
luke-jrlolcat: I think fit-PC2i still wins00:48
luke-jrjacekowski: error codes tend to be E<something> you mis-tabbed00:49
luke-jrso, ETAB00:49
lolcatluke-jr: Over what?00:49
luke-jrlolcat: anything comparable?00:49
lolcatHave I claimed something else?00:49
luke-jr*Plug, OpenRD*, PandaBoard, Fuulong, Excito, RouterBoard00:49
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ETAB := [2010-12-05 23:41:54] <jacekowski> lolcat: n90000:49
luke-jrlolcat: shrug00:49
DocScrutinizerwhy are you pestering lolcat ??00:51
lolcatI am deeply confused as to what made me a part of this discussion. I dont even understand haf of it. I bougth my N900 only because insurance was paying and it was expencive. I know the harware isnt superior, but it isn't really a issue for me. I like it because it is cool and expencive and I can rant about how free it is. End of discussion. I dont care about the hardware!00:51
jacekowskibecause he's confusing my irssi00:51
DocScrutinizerlolcat: jacekowski did a faulty tab expansion to lolcat instead of luke-jr00:52
lolcatDocScrutinizer: And now it never ends? :S00:52
DocScrutinizerthen everybody thought - for unknown reason - you ware the initiator of this weird discussion00:52
lolcatHow weird00:52
lolcatIt confused me00:53
DocScrutinizers/ ware / were /00:53
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: then everybody thought - for unknown reason - you were the initiator of this weird discussion00:53
lolcatSuddenly everyone was convincing me about benifits of diffrent types of hardware00:53
jacekowskiand you just admited to insurance fraud00:53
DocScrutinizerlolcat: should I kick them, for highlight spamming you? :-D00:53
lolcatDocScrutinizer: Nah, just forcepart me and I'll come back later xD00:54
lolcatjacekowski: No, they said my old N97 was worth 5500NOK, the N900 was only 5000NOK, so they saved 500NOK00:54
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jacekowskiN900 is worth more than n9700:58
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jacekowskiwhere was that dsme file that had information about latest restart reason00:59
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kerio900 > 9701:01
GAN900I'm so tired of broken Telepathy plugins.01:03
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Scaldshould i get n900 for christmas?01:05
johnxScald, no01:06
Scaldn900 it is!01:06
Scaldi passed the test01:07
johnxyup. I guess you want it enough that you've already convinced yourself01:07
trumeeGAN900, what plugin broke?01:08
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trumeeGAN900, i am having some weird issues with gtalk. It shows contact as offline few minutes into the chat.01:09
Scaldjohnx: yea i guess.. i'd just like to hear some "user experiences"01:09
johnxScald, being specific will get you a long way :)01:10
luke-jrScald: it's a dead platform01:10
johnxluke-jr, alternatives besides "wait for something else"?01:11
Scaldluke-jr: no more active community?01:11
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luke-jrjohnx: dunno ☹01:11
johnxScald, Nokia's putting all the future effort behind meego, which won't be "officially" supported on the N90001:11
Scaldyea i dont really care for waiting for some unknown awesome future phone01:11
luke-jrScald: I wouldn't say no more, but not as much01:11
johnxthat's why I said "no"01:11
luke-jrScald: N900 isn't a phone01:12
Scaldluke-jr: i know01:12
Scaldtell me is the community still somewhat active?01:12
johnxseems like it01:12
johnxcheck out talk.maemo.org01:12
thpno, don't check out the SNR will scare you away ;)01:13
luke-jrjohnx: counts as community?01:13
johnxbut the writing is already on the wall. Meego will be out sometime in 2011 I guess. first half of the year if I had to guess01:13
darkschneiderScald: apart the techincal things  i find myself well with N900, i use mainly it's phone and agenda and as alarm clock, with occasional ssh connections to server for administration and occasional gps navigation. Considering the proce drop, it's not a bad product at all01:13
Scalddarkschneider: yup.. i need a new geek toy :D01:13
johnxluke-jr, meh01:13
thpScald: if you are looking for a geek toy, look no further. future meego devices are most likely not as hackable as the n90001:14
luke-jrScald: N900 made a lot of the community leave and/or declare they will never buy Nokia again01:14
johnxluke-jr, and this is different from other vendors in what way?01:14
darkschneiderScald: i admit i personally do not understand why people lament about the phone... it worked for me. It is heavy, true, but as much as an Icrap. Navigation og interent works pretty well if you are reasonable that you are on a such small device01:14
Scaldwell the n900 seems to be a very potential device (even though its getting older)01:14
luke-jrjohnx: I'm not making a comparison.01:15
luke-jrScald: it would have potential if it were open01:15
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johnxdepending on what you want to do with it, it may or may not be open enough. if you want to be hacking at a level very close to the hardware, it's not quite open enough01:15
darkschneiderScald: nonetheless i used it as a mobile hotspot on occasion and as a playing platform or usb key... let's say it does LOT of stuff in one device, maybe not all the things at the best. but still you can carry just ONE device around01:15
GAN900johnx, wouldn't bother with the double quotes.01:15
GAN900johnx, N900 isn't getting MeeGo in a useful way at all unless a big direction shift takes place with the existing efforts or a lot of people start pushing that way.01:16
Scaldyea im no hacker.. i do some occasional ssh tasks etc01:16
luke-jrdarkschneider: do note that the mobile hotspot function doesn't quite work01:16
darkschneiderluke-jr: it worked before upgrade01:17
luke-jrdarkschneider: intermittantly01:17
darkschneiderluke-jr: but true that it's 3-4 weeks it's broken, but i think it's goign to be fixed, i'm sure :)01:17
GAN900trumee, AIM01:17
johnxGAN900, what makes you say that? did Stskeeps, etc get pulled off the project or something?01:17
Scaldbut does, say, firefox still get updates for the n900?01:18
darkschneiderluke-jr: do not missunderstand me, i'mnto saying it's the best device around. just that it does pretty much stuff in a decent way, not perfect, but still most of the stuff i could not do it it wasn't for it01:18
GAN900johnx, it's fairly clear THAT effort is only to get an ARM development platform.01:18
luke-jrScald: Firefox doesn't run on N900/Maemo…01:18
ShadowJK_Well, vanilla MeeGo in itself seems a bit useless :)01:18
GAN900There's no interest there in providing day-to-day functionality.01:18
johnxScald, the firefox for maemo is a bit slowish. probably won't ever be fast ...01:19
Scaldluke-jr: doesn't it? :O01:19
Scaldjohnx: yea that was just an example01:19
darkschneiderluke-jr: ??? has firefox stopped working???01:19
nox-luke-jr, fennec does01:19
nox-(tho it still seems to `eat ram like candy' :)01:19
luke-jrdarkschneider: never did?01:20
Scaldwhat i meant was since nokia isn't interested in the device anymore, are any of the software developers still interested?01:20
johnxGAN900, I don't see you on meego-arm ...01:20
GAN900It's Mer all over again.01:20
darkschneiderluke-jr: i admit i use it rarely cause the reduced one works best, and i'm too lazy to go to the phone just now and try it, but last time firefox was fine :D01:20
GAN900Except with more corporate money.01:20
GAN900johnx, what am I gonna bring to the table there?01:20
luke-jrFirefox barely runs on my desktop, I can't imagine it runnign on N90001:20
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darkschneiderluke-jr: works01:20
SpeedEvilluke-jr: It runs OK01:20
darkschneiderluke-jr: last time i used it on the mofo it was working. do you havet he phone actually?01:20
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johnxGAN900, you're not following status updates, but you're still telling me that there's no progress01:21
johnxso pardon me if I don't really care about your PoV in this case01:21
nox-its called fennec tho not firefox01:21
GAN900johnx, I didn't say there wasn't any progress.01:21
nox-its the mobile `branch'01:21
johnxnox-, says firefox under the icon for me ;)01:21
luke-jrdarkschneider: I have a N900, which isn't a phone, yes.01:21
luke-jrFennec != Firefox01:21
GAN900The point was made pretty firmly in Dublin that the goal is only to provide a dev platform.01:21
johnxGAN900, whatever. this conversation isn't going anywhere productive01:21
GAN900johnx, evidently not.01:22
GAN900Which point?01:23
johnxGAN900, aaah, I thought you were disagreeing with me, saying that conversation *is* going somewhere productive :)01:23
darkschneiderluke-jr: mmm, somehow my character does not suit with your way of expressing :) I feel like you want to have some of your sentences "fall from above" and are "granted" :) but it's only a feeling, so correct me if it's a wrong feeling :)01:24
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GAN900johnx, not looking like something that's going to help people who actually want to use their devices.01:25
johnxGAN900, I think you might be misreading the situation a bit. At v1.1, MeeGo isn't really day-to-day usable on *any* hardware01:26
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johnxso there's two projects in progress 1) MeeGo development 2) specific N900 hardware support01:27
GAN900And I'm not particularly optimistic about that situation improving.01:27
johnxDo you consider the N900 day-to-day usable with Maemo 5?01:27
GAN900Frustrating at times, but very usable.01:27
johnxDo you think Nokia suddenly forgot how to make a usable phone OS?01:28
BugBlueno, they never learned what smartphones are01:28
GAN900Harmattan HE is a different can of worms.01:28
BugBluethe whole symbian crap on smartphones was a real dissaster01:28
GAN900Which I'm not particularly optimistic about, either.01:28
johnxGAN900, yeah. that's the more "Mer-like" one in my mind01:28
BugBluemore hidden features under buttons than a linux kernel has /proc entries01:29
johnxHermattan HE seems like "hey, let's try and backport a half-proprietary distro that was specifically designed for a single piece of hardware back to an old device"01:29
johnxvery mer-like, or 2008HE-like or 2007HE-like01:30
alteregoI disagree, Symbian was the first smart phone os, no one knew what they were doing. And series 60 has and always has had more features out of the box than any other product.01:30
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ShadowJK_alterego, I'd say that Nokia missed "Smartphone 2.0" :-)01:30
ShadowJK_Whereas they practically invented Smartphone 1.001:30
alteregoHarmatten has a lot in common with meego, same touch framework01:30
ShadowJK_(and US entirely skipped Smartphone 1.0 too)01:31
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alteregoIf we can get a good set of community core apps for meego we should be set for a Harmatten like system.01:31
FIQwhat is harmattan nowdays?01:31
FIQwill it actually be released and used?01:31
johnxFIQ, with the N9, yes01:31
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FIQWasn't it supposed to have MeeGo 1.x? D:01:32
alteregoJudging by Nokias input in the arm meego work, I'd say Harmatten is definitely their next target01:32
FIQor maybe harmattan IS some release of MeeGo01:32
johnxFIQ, in a lot of ways, harmattan should be kinda similar to meego 1.201:32
johnxbut they'd started it before meego existed01:32
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DocScrutinizermeeGo HE always been Hybrid Edition for me, and actually is 80% harmattan plus 20% meego native look-alike01:34
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DocScrutinizerand it definitely id a futile effort, as it implements enough new stuff to be both of inferior quality and usability, as well as beeing too far away from real meego to ever see any bugfix effort. Nobody will be happy with it01:37
johnx(keep in mind how often DocScrutinizer and I agree ... )01:38
johnxnot following upstream is basically a death sentence for a small project01:38
alteregoI think that there will be a better upgrade path for the N901:38
johnxalterego, I think I'll wait and see :)01:39
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GAN900alterego, I doubt it.01:40
GAN900Nokia still doesn't get it.01:40
mavhkcan you hit a moving target of every other smartphone OS if you don't commit the whole company to it?01:40
GAN900Best not to get your hopes up.01:40
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johnxbuying a device based on what you think a company might do in the future is always a wager with long odds01:43
johnxI know people who *still* think Apple will allow free-for-all 3rd part development at some point :D01:43
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DocScrutinizerI'm afraid of Nokia rolling out N9 with "meego" HE, and thus both killing the N9 as it will receive devastating surveys,as well as meego at large01:44
DocScrutinizerwhile the irony is it's actually not any kinf of meego really01:45
johnxyeah, that worries me a bit01:46
DocScrutinizerNokia would be better off rolling out N9 with maemo PR1.0.1-revised01:46
DocScrutinizerand clearly labeled as "PRELIMINARY"01:46
johnxand then do a major API-break?01:46
johnxnot sure that's a terribly great idea either01:47
DocScrutinizerinstead of burning both meego brand and N9 model reputation01:47
johnxNokia's killed developer momentum over and over again01:47
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mavhkthey have no clue about software01:47
DocScrutinizerso either they roll out N9 soon, with *maemo*, or they wait until meego native is at productive state01:48
johnxmavhk, I think they're in the middle of figuring out the hard way that software needs to lead, not hardware01:48
GAN900Big ships turn slow01:48
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GAN900I doubt Nokia will ever really get that, though.01:48
mavhkapparently the hw people pick what sw they want01:48
johnxDocScrutinizer, or they'll split the difference and deliver harmattan, and we can just hope it'll be API compatible with meego01:48
GAN900Maybe with the new managers. . . .01:48
* Jay_BEE looks around and reads the scroll01:49
DocScrutinizerjohnx: (compatible) that's been the promise since ages01:49
johnxDocScrutinizer, if they can do that, I think it might actually work out ok01:49
mavhkmy n810 broke, I bought a droid01:50
DocScrutinizernot for meego-maemo-hybrid bastard01:50
DocScrutinizerit will be compatible to exactly NOTHING01:50
DocScrutinizerneither maemo, nor meego, nor even the wiki or manuals01:50
GAN900Droids have such cheap hw01:50
DocScrutinizernot to talk about SDK01:50
* johnx still has nightmares about the OS2007 and OS2008 "SDKs"01:51
mavhkn810 was more expensive than droid 1 on ebay, and only lasted 2 years01:52
rm_youoh hey john01:52
rm_you*oh hey johnx01:52
johnxhey rm_you01:52
rm_youGAN900: there's this guy here that i swear to god looks EXACTLY like you T_T01:53
rm_youevery time i go to lunch and he's there, i feel the urge to talk to him about Maemo01:53
rm_youand he stares at me blankly01:53
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rm_youanywho, do you think it'd be worth it to dust off ABL at this point and actually bother porting it to like... meego?01:54
rm_youor do they finally support good backlight levels :P01:54
rm_youi don't understand how this concept is so difficult for them T_T01:54
johnxworking on some hardware abstraction might be worth it01:55
DocScrutinizerrm_you: LCD backlight management is FUBAR01:55
GAN900Netbook UX is useless01:55
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johnxI wonder about the tablet UX01:59
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GAN900What Tablet UX?02:00
chem|stGAN900: netbook ux is more tablet ux than entbook ux...02:00
johnxgoogle seems to have references to it, but ... I guess maybe it disappeared or got renamed or something?02:01
johnxor merged into netbook?02:01
chem|stjohnx: merged? no way02:01
chem|stnetbook ux was that crap from the start on02:01
johnxsooo, there is or isn't a tablet ux?02:02
GAN900johnx, isn't a thing yet02:02
GAN900No working group, no code.02:02
GAN900Just a plan for it to be a supported hardware type.02:03
chem|stjohnx: ???02:03
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chem|stjohnx: as I just said netbook ux feels more like a tablet ux atm02:03
johnxis it actually comfortable to use on a 7" - 10" tablet?02:04
GAN900Can't get to the toolbar with the touchscreen.02:04
chem|stit is not even comfortable on an 11" netbook...02:05
chem|stor 10" or 9"02:05
johnxso, maybe I'll hold off on a tablet purchase then ...02:06
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chem|stjohnx: the more you talk the more I think you will find yourself a better place...02:07
GAN900johnx, only get something if it's got a decent screen.02:07
GAN900Poor viewing angles are really killer with tablets.02:07
johnxchem|st, hmm?02:07
johnxGAN900, I need to get some hands-on time with the nook color, but that's what I was thinking about02:07
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chem|stjohnx: there is no good hardware out yet and there is no good ux out yet closest to usable are galaxy and iPad and both are way of my path02:08
johnxmine too02:08
johnxI have no interest in android or iOS (either the apple one or the cisco one ;) )02:09
chem|stjohnx: get yourself a netbook and a $80 touchscreen, much more use02:09
johnxsadly, netbook hardware doesn't interest me much either for tablet uses02:10
johnxI'm happy to hack on unfinished stuff, but I have no interest in doing the project by myself02:10
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johnxso I'll just poke at meego/pandora for now :)02:11
* GAN900 bookseller.02:11
chem|stwrong channel btw...02:13
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johnxmore on-topic than a lot of the other stuff on here02:15
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GAN900johnx, oh, and you and rm_you both suck for not making Dublin.02:19
rm_youI WANTED TO02:19
rm_youcould not get time off02:19
rm_youI asked if I could take unpaid time off02:19
johnxGAN900, haven't been in maemo-land for the last year, so I didn't want to ask for sponsorship02:19
rm_youtheir response was "Sure, but only if it's for the next 80 years"02:19
johnxand couldn't make it without sponsorship02:19
rm_youyeah, same, except i could afford the trip02:19
rm_yousince i have a job and could afford the trip, i have a job and couldn't leave T_T02:20
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GAN900Plan for SF in April.02:22
johnxwhat's happening there?02:23
GAN900Next conference.02:23
GAN900Industry oriented, but still MeeGo02:24
johnxmaybe I can get work to send me02:24
johnxbut international meego summit is in june?02:25
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johnxI'm looking at . Should I be looking somewhere else?02:26
GAN900Funny that they call the SF one industry oriented given the number of OEMs and commercial devs in Dublin.02:27
GAN900Was definitely not a Maemo event.02:28
johnxhaving more than one company with their ass on the line is probably for the best02:28
SpeedEvilEspecially from the point of view of dilution of effort.02:29
GAN900They spent SO much money02:29
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GAN900Paid for exactlyone drink the whole trip.02:29
johnxsoo, on the events list I see the april event in SF and i see "international meego summit" for may 30 - april 1 in Finland.02:31
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GAN900I was really surprised by the AMD announcement.02:31
GAN900unofficial thing.02:31
johnxit's awesome, cause it's essentially a vote of "no confidence" in microsoft from both x86 vendors02:32
GAN900Well, for WP7 anyway.02:32
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GAN900(can't believe we're still stuck with the x86 duopoly)02:33
johnxI just hope intel doesn't crush ARM02:33
johnxthat would be bad I think02:34
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GAN900I find it unlikely.02:34
SpeedEvilIntel used to sell arm02:34
GAN900Really not ultimately in their best interests.02:34
johnxSpeedEvil, yup. they also used to say that itanium was the future02:35
SpeedEvilia432 looked interesting02:35
ieatlinti wouldn't go and buy plane tickets for the sf event until it's confirmed :P02:35
SpeedEvilI wonder what'd have happened if it came off.02:35
ieatlinti've heard may dates, yet the events page lists april02:35
GAN900Be nice to ditch x8602:35
johnxieatlint, If all goes well, I won't be buying my own plane tickets for it02:36
corecodescummvm \o/02:36
SpeedEvil(though I was more interested in crayons at the time)02:36
ieatlintjohnx: hah, good luck then :)02:36
GAN900It's incredible the technical and economic damage MS has done.02:36
SpeedEvilThe 32 bit processor for the 1980s02:36
SpeedEvilWith all sorts of stuff that still hasn't come to mainstream.02:36
corecodei wonder how to stretch the scummvm video size to cover the whole screen area02:36
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rm_youyeah i have more vacation time next year02:49
rm_youso I will go to SF :)02:49
rm_youalso I love SF02:49
johnxrm_you, yeah. I need to get back to SF as well02:49
rm_youthough I also really would have liked to visit dublin02:49
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johnxyeah. just wasn't in the cards for this year02:50
* ieatlint is from sf... i can offer peoples advice02:50
rm_youI've visited SF, it's awesome02:50
rm_youspent a day in japantown02:50
ieatlintlike where to eat, where to avoid to get mugged (or conversely, where to go to mug), or buy drugs02:51
rm_youneed to find a better ramen place next time tho02:51
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johnxieatlint, I'm from san  mateo, but that was 20 years ago :)02:51
ieatlintthe good ramen is in the richmond and sunset districts... a 45min+ trek from downtown by public transit02:52
ieatlinthehe, where are you now then?02:52
johnxhalf of me wants to drive down from seattle ...02:52
ieatlintyeah, seattle > san mateo02:52
johnxwell, when I say seattle, I mean bellevue02:52
johnxand bellevue vs san mateo ... hmm02:53
ieatlintnot the worst drive, but if it's just you, the cost of gas will rival airfare02:53
johnxyeah, which is why I need to con someone else into coming along02:53
johnxwhere are you now, ieatlint?02:53
ieatlintin sf02:54
rm_youheh, too bad i'm not in seattle :P02:54
johnxyeah, I might just end up flying02:54
ieatlintpresidio on the edge of the richmond02:54
johnxplanning to stop by the embedded linux / meego thing in april?02:55
ieatlintinterested, but haven't looked into it02:55
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ieatlintthe website seems rather bare02:56
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ieatlintand doesn't list an upcoming event02:56
johnxthe public wiki on ce linux returns a 40302:56
johnxvery fitting02:56
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dotblankI'm trying to think what library I should use for mp3 decoding04:12
dotblankI'm thinking about using libavcodec04:12
dotblankI'm trying to not use libphonon04:13
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dotblankI was thinking about that but i'm really going for performance04:15
dotblankalso does gstreamer allow you to apply ladspa effects04:15
SpeedEvilsee that - arm optimised04:15
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mahermedia player is not finding the songs on my sdhc card - is there any way to persuade it to?04:44
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johnxmaher, what format is your sd card?04:44
maherjohnsu01: ext304:44
johnxdunno if that makes a difference or not (and yes, I know it *shouldn't* make a difference)04:45
johnxdoes it find one if you copy it to the music folder on the device itself?04:45
maherjohnsu01: it used to in the past, but i switched sims temporarily and now it doesn't find them (sims should be irrelevent one would hope...)04:45
maherjohnsu01: it finds the music in the main fs04:46
johnxcareful with the tab :)04:46
johnxremove and reinsert card? just for fun04:47
* GAN900 re-reads AnandTech's N900 review.04:47
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maherjohnx: ok - i'm lying - its only finding the .mp3's - nearly everything is in oggs....04:50
johnxheh. well that's different :) do you have ogg-support or whatever it's called?04:50
maherjohnx: ok - its finding the mp3s on the card - let me check to see if i lost the ogg support stuff somehow...04:51
maherjohnx: ogg-support is installed04:52
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maheri have tracker-extractor-vorbis04:55
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maherapt-get remove ogg-support touches every ogg file in the main fs05:03
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maherok - that seems to have fixed it...05:11
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bef0rduhm my camera stopped working suddenly. /me checks tmo threads05:50
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johnxbef0rd, reboot05:57
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Termanagood morning06:08
rm_youbef0rd: yeah, i've had that, reboot always fixed it for me06:11
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bef0rdthanks. gonna try that after finnish scanning the internal MMC for filesystem errors06:20
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dotblankalmost got groove on to a pulse backend06:29
dotblankinstead of phonon06:30
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bef0rdstill operation failed, it seems like MyDocs is mounted as rodir06:40
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chxmmmm good ramen and i am about to have dinner06:49
chxwe have really, really good ramen just an easy 10-15 min walk away06:49
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MohammadAGwhat's 0x1212121212 in binary?07:48
MohammadAGneed it for my school's WIP07:49
MohammadAGWEP even07:49
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MoL0ToVhi to all08:56
MoL0ToVsomeone know if is planned to develore maemo for nokia N-97 N97mini and so on?08:57
MoL0ToVsymbian is very slow and not secure08:57
MoL0ToVexist a toolchain to develope on N97-mini ?08:57
MoL0ToVsdk or other things to help?08:58
ieatlintmaemo has already reached end of life, and won't be supported on any new devices...09:01
ieatlinti'd doubt there will be any community effort to bring it to the n97, or likely any symbian phone...09:02
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DocScrutinizer51how would I make mediaplayer open an URL like mmsh://  except by editing an existing video bookmark? Is there *any* way for direct URL entry?09:38
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jacekowskiuse non stock media player09:39
DocScrutinizer51for instance?09:40
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Jay_BEEgn (ugt)09:41
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lardmanHmm, very quiet in here....09:46
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ebzzryHi! Where does microb store its cache?09:52
lardmanunder ~/.mozilla I guess09:53
lardmanor perhaps ~/.browser09:54
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RobbieThe1stLinux question:  have three SATA disks, all 640GB identical models. They are /dev/sda, b, and c respectively. One is connected via USB - How can I tell which it is?10:03
lardmanlsusb give anything?10:04
lardmanoh, they are identical, hmm10:04
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lardmanunplug the usb one and see which one vanishes ;)10:05
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RobbieThe1stlsusb doesn't seem to show any. And I'd like -not- to do that, because they are all part of a raid which my boot drive is on10:05
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lardmandmesg might give you a clue, if it's still fresh10:08
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nidOpulling the disk out is gonna be the most straightforward way, presumably theyre raid5?10:14
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lardmananyone know how the word suggestion stuff is implemented and if it's possible to copy that in e.g. a Python program?10:19
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DocScrutinizer51lardman: afaik it's in the textinput box. At least xchat has it too, so why shouldn't it work in a python prog?10:26
DocScrutinizer51I guess the relevant bindings will be available10:27
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Maceranybody know a good osx vnc client that can do scaling?10:30
johnxMacer, the built-in one ...10:31
Macerthere's a built in one? :)10:32
Macerin leopard?10:32
Maceri got the one from darwin ports but meh10:32
Maceri can't seem to figure out how to scale it if it even does and scrolling is a pain and it's for an xp home computer which doesn't do rdp :/10:33
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johnxMacer, in finder: cmd+k, then: vnc://hostname.local10:36
Macerno way10:36
johnxalso, xp home can be registry hacked to support rdp I think10:37
Maceromg johnx .. i never knew that10:38
Macerthat's so awesome10:38
johnxit's not a great vnc client, but it's not *bad*10:38
Macerit scales10:38
Macerthat's all i care about ;)10:38
johnxthe coolest thing is it actually supports multi-monitors pretty well too10:39
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RST38hWell. Moorning all. Heya johnx, Macer10:42
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johnxhallo RST38h. played with git much?10:42
RST38hnah, not orgasmic about version control systems10:43
Macerjohnx: crap i'm just happy it works lol10:43
crashanddiejohnx, need help?10:43
Macerthat is way better than the tightvnc from the macports tree10:43
johnxcrashanddie, any good way to find the first revision a pattern appeared in (in this case a specific function)?10:43
Macerjohnx: what's full screen?10:43
Macercmd+f ?10:43
Macerto get it to go full screen? :)10:44
crashanddiejohnx, bisect can help10:44
johnxMacer, no key bindings I think ...10:44
johnxsince otherwise you couldn't send those to the host ;)10:44
crashanddiejohnx, or you can do the pickaxe search10:46
crashanddiejohnx, git log -S'line that was added'10:46
crashanddieand it will show you the logs10:46
MoL0ToV<ieatlint> maemo has already reached end of life, and won't be supported on any new devices...10:47
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MoL0ToVthe symbian source code is available to comunity?10:47
MoL0ToValso gsm drivers, protocols, and so?10:47
MoL0ToVif nokia refuses to switch to linux, i trow my n97 and buy a china phone.10:48
MoL0ToVn97 firmware is so bad10:49
MoL0ToVslow and unstable10:49
MoL0ToVthe comunity want linux kernel running on nokia cpus10:49
crashanddieMoL0ToV, and #maemo really isn't the channel to talk about Symbian10:49
RST38hNoL0ToV: Thank you for your data input. Where do you want to go today?10:50
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Macernew freddy kreuger sucks10:52
Macerjust not the same without robert england10:52
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RST38hMacer: Wasn't very scary to begin with10:53
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Maceryeah. it was more humor than horror ;)10:54
Venemo_N900MoL0ToV: check the code for yourself10:54
Macerbut still. this new guy just simply can't pull it off10:54
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Macerhm. i need to reg hack this box so i can rdp to it10:54
Macerstupid xp home :)10:54
Macerbut xp is the most compatible with what i need it for10:55
Maceri'm remuxing my dts mkvs into ac3 so i don't run into dts decoder problems10:55
Macermy popcornhour doesn't have a built in dts decoder and i need a better tv center because the cables are so ugly when i have the receiver hooked up10:55
lardmanDocScrutinizer: cheers10:56
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lardmanhmm, confusing, I'm using PyObject_CallMethod() to get a PyObject* yet it seems to go out of scope immediately, I need to block and let the Python code run somehow10:58
lardmanme does some googling10:59
Maceri hope meego gets going for my n900.. would be nice to get a fully functional os that won't be outdated heh11:00
Maceror nitdroid.. nitdroid would be nice too :)11:00
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* lardman thinks that perhaps providing a window created in C++ would solve this issue, then just wait for it to be destroyed, assuming events will work in the Python code11:02
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Venemo_N900Macer: you'll have to be patient for MeeGo11:09
Venemo_N900lardman: what's the problem?11:09
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lardmantrying to get mbarcode python plugins to do something useful11:09
MacerVenemo_N900: yeah :(11:10
Venemo_N900lardman: ouch.11:11
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Venemo_N900Macer: MeeGo is nowhere near usable (yet)11:11
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MacerVenemo_N900: yeah i heard ;)11:13
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Macernitdroid is for the most part11:13
RST38hmorning lardman11:14
Macerat the very least it has the modem working :)11:14
Macerthat was a pretty huge step. nice to see that going11:14
RST38hlardman: impossible happened yesterday: mbarcode has done somethign useful!11:14
haltdefcan't wait to get meego 1.2 on my n90011:14
lardmanhi RST38h11:14
haltdefportrait please11:14
lardmanRST38h: what was the useful thing then? :)11:14
JaffaMorning, all11:14
lardmanmorning Jaffa11:14
RST38hlardman: scanned a pack of cookies, did google search, brought up some online store offering to buy the same cookies11:14
RST38hlardman: [note: scanned it casually, while in the kitchen]11:15
crashanddiewell that wasn't useful, you already had said cookies11:15
MacerRST38h: hahha!11:15
RST38hlardman: BTW, for some reason mbarcode goes to sleep on startup and needs some coercing to wake up (usually by flicking camera cover)11:16
MacerRST38h: did you buy them?11:16
RST38hMacer: No, I have another 2 unopened packs hoarded =)11:16
Macerbarcode scanners in android worked rather well11:17
Maceralthough it took quite a while to get a good scan with the cam with my G1 back in teh day11:17
lardmanmBarcode needs to startup faster11:18
lardmanand I also need to find some time to write some more useful/cool plugins11:18
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lardmanshould be reasonably quiet now that I'm back from India, I hope11:18
crashanddiehow was it?11:18
Macerlardman: last time i was in india it was horrible11:19
Macerworse than iraq :)11:19
lardmanwarmer than here, long week though11:19
lardmanlots of work to do, etc11:19
Macerworst place i saw on the planet actually11:19
Macersingapore was probably one of the best11:19
crashanddieMacer, I guess that highly depends on where you go, and what you do11:19
Macerwell. we were in mumbai11:19
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Macerthere was probably like 3 blocks of non-ghetto11:20
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Macerthe rest was a cesspool11:20
lardmanIt's certainly dirty and you have to watch what you eat/drink/etc, also difficult getting round as there are no pavements and mad drivers11:20
Macercrashanddie: ghetto is being kind11:20
Macerbecause the worst ghettoes here in chicago do not even come close in compairson to the disgust i walked through in india11:21
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Macereven iraq was better :)11:21
crashanddiefigures, only a narrowminded american could say stupid shit like that11:22
Macercrashanddie: hey. i could only say what i saw ;)11:22
Macerand i've seen the worst ghettoes here... and comparing it to india.. india has chicago beat by a landslide11:22
Macerit isn't really being narrowminded when you have women walking up asking to buy their newborns then just throwing them into the street when you don't11:23
Macerobviously the quality of life is much lower in the area of india i was touring :)11:23
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Macermaybe i was just in a very bad area.. but compared to what i had to fall back on in life... i found india to be one place that i would not mind never going to ever again :)11:24
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crashanddieMacer, only an idiot would blacklist a one billion-strong country on the basis he visited some whorestreet. There are areas in Paris where you can lose your life (if just that) for looking the wrong person in the eye, but it would be foolish to discount the whole of France as a bad destination on that basis, no?11:27
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Macercrashanddie: possibly :)11:31
Macerfair enough11:31
Macerjust had a bad experience and although there were a few nice areas the majority of the area was horrid11:31
crashanddieI'm pretty sure every country has some worse/better places, but in my experience, India is a very enjoyable and pleasant destination. Let's compare Cass corridor in Detroit with Santana Row in SJ.11:31
Macerif i find a cockroach in a bic mac it would probably take me a while to eat at mcdonalds again as well11:32
lardmanRST38h: lol, a revolution, think of all the useful things one could use integration for :)11:32
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RST38hlardman: And the guy isn't even Steve Jobs!11:34
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* RST38h has a rule of avoiding places with hot climates, lots of people, and no sanitation11:35
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lardmanI wish Ovi would stop taunting me by sending me emails about what I could do with me phone (if it were a symbian phone and had uptodate Ovi Maps)#11:37
RST38hfilters, they rule11:37
X-Fadelardman: unsubscribe link? :)11:38
lardmanwell it's nice to see what it's like to live on the other side still ;)11:38
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marmoutehaha loosing you life in paris.11:38
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marmouteI don't know what you do for a living crashanddie, but it looks dangerous11:39
X-Fademarmoute: Easy, just cross a street the wrong way.11:39
lardmanhmm, crossing the street in India is an experience11:39
lardmanbasically just walk, they don't tend to hit people too often11:40
lardmanbloody scary though11:40
crashanddieso statistically speaking, you're safe?11:40
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lardmanyes, and I reckon I'm taller and heavier than the average Indian car too, so they will try to avoid hitting me ;)11:41
crashanddiemarmoute, convoyeur de fonds autour d'aubervilliers...11:41
RST38hThey will get you with a Tata truck instead11:41
lardmanyeah, one with no working brakes, that is a minor worry11:42
RST38hlardman: Seen any Ganges dolphins?11:45
lardmanno, saw some tombs and monuments but other than that was a busy week working11:46
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crashanddielardman, hang on... did you and your wife get a private visit of the Taj Mahal?11:50
lardmanyeah they moved some French chap back a bit to fit us in ;)11:50
crashanddiethought as much :P11:50
lardmannah Holly didn't go11:51
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cos^please give thumbs up for this, it's a nice app
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Venemo_N900cos^: what app is it?12:30
cos^it's a gliding navigation app12:31
Venemo_N900cos^: elaborate pls :)12:31
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cos^i've used (and a little bit developed) it for long time12:31
cos^a bit like mappero but for aviation use :-)12:32
cos^shows moving map and some information12:32
alteregoSounds a bit to much like columbus for my liking.12:32
alteregoHave you announced it in the forums?12:32
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cos^nope, but it's known in the gliding community12:33
alteregoGet them to vote :P12:34
alteregoI don't glide, so I can't test to vote it :P12:34
Venemo_N900cos^: it looks great, but unfortunately I've never glided12:35
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lcukalterego, this isn't your app? (yours is columbus yes?)12:35
alteregolcuk: exactly :P12:35
lcukcos^, thanks for the hint, i will see if I can get an attachment on my dads glider12:35
alteregolcuk: I thought, cumulus sounded a bit like columbus :P12:35
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lcukthe screenshot shows an n810 with car holder12:35
* lcuk hasnt seen one for n90012:36
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pigeonwhere can i change which device/partition the will mount automaticaly for /media/mmc1?12:36
alteregoYou can get various misc phone holders, but getting one to work in portrait may be the tricky part.12:36
alteregoThough maybe it's easy, I don't know :)12:36
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cos^lcuk: the author prefers using n810 as it has larger display and easier support for usb serial converter12:37
lcukcos^, thats handy then, i have a spare n810 that has always been happy for mapping12:37
cos^alterego: it can be tested on the ground. it can even download the maps12:37
cos^i've been developing more finger friendly ui for cumulus, but it's not yet in the official versions12:38
alteregoWell, I'd like to test it, but I'm  very deep in my own stuff at the moment :P12:38
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lcukcos^, if you have an n90012:38
lcukhave a look at cloudgps12:38
lcuk:) extremely slick ui12:38
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cos^looks nice12:41
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cos^btw has erminig extras-dev version broken completely?12:43
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alterego*cough* mine will be better *cough*12:43
lcukcos^, how does cumulus download maps12:43
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alteregoYou could write cumulus as a plugin for columbus12:43
lcukdoes it need to be done at home12:43
cos^lcuk: it has them somewhere on server and pre-downloads them when started for first time12:43
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alteregoI wanted to implement an aeronautical profile ..12:43
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lcukalterego, columbus is a swish looking compass isnt it?12:44
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lcukat least thats all I get from the photos12:44
alteregoIt's more than just a bearing indicator :P12:44
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lcukperhaps you should release so people can see :P12:44
cos^is there any info about columbus somewhere? i can't find on google12:45
Venemo_N900alterego: yeah, release it!12:45
Venemo_N900cos^: alterego hasn't released it yet. noone's seen it yet12:45
Venemo_N900I'm starting to believe it's vapourware12:46
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alteregoIt is vapour ware! :P12:46
cos^lcuk: yep you should pre-download the maps, as usually during flight there is no internet connection12:46
lcukcos^, sure, that was my thought12:46
cos^that's why google or os maps can't be used easily12:47
lcukmy dad goes hang gliding12:47
lcukand paragliding too12:48
* lcuk still waiting for him to do ski gliding tho12:48
Venemo_N900alterego: is there also a map view or it's just the compass12:48
alteregoThere's a trackview12:48
alteregoI'm undecided whether I'll implement maps.12:48
alteregoThere's already a crap tonne of mapping apps and that's not really the "purpose" of Columbus12:49
cos^lcuk: you could show cumulus to him then.. it should give him all navigation stuff needed12:49
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lcukindeed, I will cos^, thanks for highlighting it :)12:49
Venemo_N900alterego: it'd be a nicer experience if I could see my track on a map12:50
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alteregoI know, I have been tempted to implement it I must say.12:51
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Venemo_N900alterego: and I like the background image of the app12:51
lcukalterego, you have the most awesome looking compass12:51
Venemo_N900alterego: where did you get it?12:51
alteregolcuk: :)12:51
alteregoI made it in The GIMMP12:51
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Venemo_N900alterego: port it to symbian and sell it on ovi12:52
alteregoI don't have an N812:52
Venemo_N900borrow one12:53
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alteregoI wonder how people would react to a free maemo edition and a paid for Symbian one :D12:53
Venemo_N900well 99% of Symbian users don't know what Maemo is12:54
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Venemo_N900also you could make it a paid yet OSS app12:54
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HRH_H_Crabhow do you guys cope with the terminal "losing" enter and arrow key functionality?13:03
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RobbieThe1stNever had it happen to me...13:03
HRH_H_Crabi keep hitting reset but it doesnt always work with nested screens13:03
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HRH_H_Crabor it will fix entee but not arrows13:04
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chem|stMohammadAG: DocScrutinizer51 is there anything to know about powerkernel46?13:05
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HRH_H_CrabRobbieThe1st: yeah its the nested screens that cause it.13:09
HRH_H_Crabvery annoying problem.13:09
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DocScrutinizer51chem|st: it has issues13:13
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DocScrutinizer51what can I say?13:13
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MohammadAG<RST38h> 0001001000010010000100100001001000010010 <-- can't be a WEP can it?13:30
alteregosure it can13:32
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alteregoconvert it to ascii13:33
alteregoWell, hex13:33
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MohammadAGit was in hex13:34
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> what's 0x1212121212 in binary?13:34
alteregohex pairs13:36
alteregorepresenting an ascii string of 5 or more characters13:37
MohammadAG.toString() didn't work :P (jk)13:38
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MohammadAG <-- I wonder what this is o_O13:39
alteregoform feed13:39
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: issues?13:39
alteregoI think that is what 0x12 is13:39
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MoL0ToVexist a chan about maemo/symbian comunity developement for N-series nokia?13:41
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: absolutely correct. I've never seen any WEP UI where you enter keys in BINARY(!)13:42
chem|stMoL0ToV: QT?13:42
DocScrutinizerchem|st: issues13:43
DocScrutinizeror, if you like that better, it's annoying buggy13:43
MoL0ToVchem|st, you mean qt library of kde project?13:43
chem|stMoL0ToV: I mean the platform Qt13:44
MohammadAGmeh, cba to know what the pass was anymore13:44
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MohammadAGchanged the network to open13:44
MohammadAGon that note, who the fuck links a secure router to an open one and makes the open one's pass admin/admin?13:44
MohammadAGother than my school of course13:44
DocScrutinizerchem|st: at very least it has that LP5523 ""patch"" that meakes indicator and kbd LEDs go bonkers13:44
chem|stMohammadAG: nice13:44
chem|stDocScrutinizer: indicator?13:45
DocScrutinizerindicator LED?13:45
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chem|stwhat does it do?13:45
DocScrutinizerYou should have seen it13:45
chem|stDocScrutinizer: mine behaves normal13:45
chem|stDocScrutinizer: at least for now13:46
DocScrutinizermine too13:46
MohammadAGreinstall kernel-power and reboot13:46
chem|stMohammadAG: is it on first boot?13:46
DocScrutinizerI'm on pr1.2 kernel :-P13:46
MohammadAGsometimes you get the bug, others times, not really13:46
MohammadAGchem|st, it's only affected by kernel-power, and last I checked, that doesn't ship with the stock image13:46
MohammadAGit's totally random, and when it happens, you need to remove the battery13:47
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chem|stMohammadAG: ok so some time my device goes nuts and I have to remove the battery? what is the difference to pr1.3 stock?13:47
MohammadAGI really hope Nokia doesn't solder the battery in the N913:47
MohammadAGyour device, not your LEDs13:48
MohammadAG<MohammadAG_> FUCKING KERNEL-POWER13:48
MohammadAG<MohammadAG_> Nokia-N900:~# ls /sys/class/leds/13:48
MohammadAG<MohammadAG_> twl4030:vibrator13:48
MohammadAG<MohammadAG_> Nokia-N900:~#13:48
chem|stehrm ouch13:48
DocScrutinizerchem|st: if that's a correct characterization of PR1.3 kernel, then it will have a hard time to make its way onto my device13:48
kerioMohammadAG: what?13:48
MoL0ToVchem|st, QT is a sdk? exist something open-source operating system to load and run on a N-series nokia phone?13:48
MohammadAGthe sysnode doesn't get regged13:49
DocScrutinizerkerio: what?13:49
chem|stMoL0ToV: Qt is a crossplatform environment used in kde/windows/meego/maemo/symbian...13:50
DocScrutinizerkerio: chem|st: matan ""patch" to lp5523.ko13:50
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DocScrutinizerinstead of properly fixing that kinky driver, he fubar'd it13:51
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chem|stMoL0ToV: you are asking for a devel channel for maemo/symbian there might be a qt channel out there13:51
DocScrutinizerfor absolutely obscure reasons and purpose13:51
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: it is not a kernel characterization but a PR1.3 one13:52
MohammadAGremind me why the fuck I need to have rtcom-call-ui and rtcom-call-ui.launch13:52
chem|stseems since 1.1.1 it is getting worse13:52
MohammadAGno, it's kernel-power specific13:52
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: why *.launch?13:52
MohammadAGyes, why do I have them13:53
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: *.launch does some lib preload and sharing13:53
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MohammadAGso when I need to sed the call UI, which one do I edit?13:54
DocScrutinizernot the *.launch13:54
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DocScrutinizercheck them, they all point to same executable iirc13:54
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DocScrutinizerit's kind of a universal lib-preloader wrapper13:55
jaskawhatd call-ui do now?13:55
jaskawhat are you replacing there?:D13:55
MohammadAG.launch has the functions13:56
MohammadAGthe binary points to the .launch file13:56
DocScrutinizeroops you're right13:58
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DocScrutinizerlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 2010-06-23 05:10 /usr/bin/osso-addressbook -> maemo-invoker13:58
DocScrutinizerof course, as you call the without-.launch file to start an app13:59
DocScrutinizerso what you call has to be the wrapper13:59
MohammadAGoh nice14:05
MohammadAGbreaking rtcom-call-ui -> phone doesn't ring14:06
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MohammadAGnice call blocker, I'll keep it in mind14:06
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jaskahmm.. i guess maemo-xinput-sounds is an useless process15:01
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MohammadAGit's for screen feedback15:02
jaskayeah as much i figured from strings and google15:02
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jaskahaving one of those must-remove-everything-unnecessary -binges15:03
RST38h !15:04
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FIQ|n900For some reason, my Python install seems to be borked15:07
FIQ|n900Any python application i try to start just give an error about (insertmodulehere) not found15:07
FIQ|n900for example, mobilehotspot: ImportError: No module named dbus15:08
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FIQ|n900or ipython: ImportError: No module named IPython.Shell15:08
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chem|stFIQ|n900: sounds fun!15:09
FIQ|n900Isn't it any possibility to revert, like reinstalling python?15:09
chem|stpython has grown to a problem... yeah try reinstalling it15:09
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* DocScrutinizer glares at python-optify15:13
FIQ|n900bah, isn't there any "reinstall" command? As removing python also removes many applications that depend on it15:13
baraujoFIQ|n900, apt-get install --reinstall15:13
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: check your mounts. Are there some python bindmounts?15:13
FIQ|n900ah, ok15:13
FIQ|n900@ baraujo15:13
FIQ|n900hm, i can check15:13
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FIQ|n900seems so15:14
DocScrutinizer/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5 on /usr/lib/python2.5 type bind (bind)15:14
DocScrutinizer/opt/pymaemo/usr/share/pyshared on /usr/share/pyshared type bind (bind)15:14
DocScrutinizer/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/pyshared on /usr/lib/pyshared type bind (bind)15:14
DocScrutinizer/opt/pymaemo/usr/share/python-support on /usr/share/python-support type bind (bind)15:14
DocScrutinizer/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python-support on /usr/lib/python-support type bind (bind)15:14
DocScrutinizerk, no clue then15:14
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FIQ|n900Didn't help, should i reinstall every package?15:16
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FIQ|n900(just reinstalled python)15:16
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FIQ|n900every package as in every related to python15:17
DocScrutinizerI'd try an uninstall purge the python packages, to discard any config files as well. Then force-reinstall the apps that use python, this should pull the dependencies automatically. But I'm talking outa my a.. here, as I have no idea of packaging and/or apt / deb-pkgs15:18
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DocScrutinizermaybe you make your system go up in smoke by following this advice15:19
DocScrutinizererr ""advice""15:19
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DocScrutinizerheard of some nasty concept recently which creates c and then binaries out of python libs and programs. I'd not be surprised to find such an 'optimizer' fsck up your system15:22
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FIQ|n900gah, i hate when HAM feels like locking apt randomly to do it's update check D:15:26
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chem|stFIQ|n900: havent set the update check grace period to forever?15:31
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FIQ|n900<chem|st> FIQ|n900: havent set the update check grace period to forever?15:35
FIQ|n900is that even doable? o.o15:35
FIQ|n900never used HAM since installation of rootsh lol15:35
* FIQ|n900 checks15:35
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kerioFIQ|n900: you can set it to ~one year15:36
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DocScrutinizeronly the auto-updates-check15:43
DocScrutinizeraiui FIQ|n900's problem is a bit different though15:44
DocScrutinizerwell, on re-reading it- maybe not15:45
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DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: ^^^15:45
FIQGah, i don't like hidden settings like that. :P15:46
FIQbut works for me15:46
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crashanddieMohammadAG, gonna get the playstation phone?15:47
MohammadAGcrashanddie, pic?15:48
MohammadAGtell me it runs maemo 6, please!15:49
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MohammadAGfuck it15:50
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: is that exabytes?15:51
timeless_mbpeta ? whatever15:51
crashanddiewtf you talking about?15:52
timeless_mbpthe daily wtf15:52
crashanddieyeah, looks like 2 exabytes per second15:53
DocScrutinizerwell, that's all rather lame and not very unusual or exciting. Seen such things like 75% of cases where a dl-speed or copy-bandwidth is calculated15:54
MohammadAGnot excited about it15:55
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DocScrutinizerbandwith idling at 0 for several seconds, then going thru the roof on update of bytes-copied15:55
MohammadAGthough the titles it'll get are probably good, knowing how song works15:55
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DocScrutinizerI read that as steampunk on first glance. Made my smile for a second15:58
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MohammadAGIs trolling documented somewhere?16:37
timeless_mbpmaemo in wikipedia?16:37
infobottimeless_mbp meant: maybe in wikipedia?16:37
timeless_mbp(not my best day)16:37
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RST38hMohammadAG: encyclopediadramatica?16:39
MohammadAGno .h file? damn16:40
MohammadAGRST38h, need a library :P16:40
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RST38hMohammadAG: No, no, trolling is documented there, I mean16:44
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chocolat_it is possible to send sms from command-line ?17:13
chocolat_(using terminal)17:14
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linglinghi, can anyone connect to the webpage ""? if I connect there only stands "Laden...". (it's a browsergame but thats no advertisement)17:17
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linglingwith you n900*17:17
chocolat_Corsac: thx, in fact I have ever seen this page and I was wondering about "pdu_array" variable. I don't where it come from17:18
timeless_mbplingling: ?17:18
SpeedEvil A n900 Christmas card.17:19
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Corsacchocolat_: no idea, I didn't even read it17:22
chocolat_Corsac: ;)17:22
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lingling@timeless_mbp its just for me down -.-. it works on my computer but not with my mobile devise ... :(17:24
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pitufioHello, world!17:31
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pitufioDoes anyone knows how to remove all that's related to IR, GPS, FM receiver and BT?17:32
chocolat_pitufio: hello, can you do an "hello world" using cli ? :)17:32
pitufiochocolat_: echo "Hello, world!"17:33
chocolat_well done :) I forgot to precise "sending by sms" :)17:33
SpeedEvilpitufio: Do you have a hot-air reflow station, a good soldering iron, a magnifying viewer, and steady hands?17:34
Neccdamn he's too smart! kill him! KILL HIM!17:34
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pitufioSpeedEvil: hem... :) I mean, the device drivers, the related software and the init-script.17:35
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SpeedEvilYou can't remove all related to GPS, as there is code to handle it inside the modem.17:36
pitufioSpeedEvil: because I don't want that :) Any other question?17:36
SpeedEvilWhich is not open.17:36
SpeedEvilIR is emission only17:36
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SpeedEvilWhat's your aim?17:36
pitufioSpeedEvil: thanks for the interesting info17:36
pitufioSpeedEvil: using the device as 3G modem only and enforcing the non-usage of the listed devices17:37
SpeedEvilpitufio: What do you mean by enforcing.17:37
pitufioSpeedEvil: (and as a side effect, increasing battery life)17:37
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SpeedEvilSomeone can re-flash it.17:37
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SpeedEvilAnd you don't do that.17:37
SpeedEvilJust don't use the listed things, and you get the same battery benefits.17:38
pitufioSpeedEvil: a lot of processes related to that are running by default...17:38
SpeedEvilThey would be no more off if you 'disable' them in some manner versus not using them17:38
SpeedEvilDoesn't matter.17:38
SpeedEvilThey are not active.17:38
SpeedEvilWith the device otherwise idle, and connected to wifi, I get 5-6 days battery life.17:39
SpeedEvil3G modem will - if used at all - reduce battery life to 5-6 hours at most17:39
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pitufioSpeedEvil: eh... thanks for your explanation. My requirement is to remove all that or enforce the non-usage of all that17:40
SpeedEvilWhat do you mean by enforce.17:40
SpeedEvilYou cannot remove GPS.17:40
pitufioSpeedEvil: I mean 'I want to be sure these devices are not used and will never be even by mistake'17:41
SpeedEvilMistake or intention?17:41
SpeedEvilThen it's impossible, as the device can be reflashed.17:41
MohammadAGremove the kernel module, if one exists17:41
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SpeedEvilIf you hack on the init scripts, you can stop stuff being started.17:41
Neccpitufio: buy a chineese edition Nokia, they ban GPS by default17:42
Necc... and wlan too17:42
SpeedEvilBut this may go away on over-the-air upgrades17:42
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pitufioNecc: which means it's possible to do that :)17:42
SpeedEvilpitufio: Reflashing 'fixes' it17:42
pitufioSpeedEvil: of course17:43
Neccor tell me you are not paranoid thay the "big gowernment" will track you down and that's (or by similar reasons) you want to deactivate the gps?17:43
pitufioNecc: hehe... No I'm not.17:43
Neccgood... because opensource means: someone who dig into the code will figure this out in no-time17:44
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Neccthen why not choosing to simply not use GPS? it is a free service anyway17:45
pitufioNecc: yes, sure. I just don't want to be able to use by mistake17:45
pitufioNecc: I'm trying to have 'communication ways' that I can trust17:46
Neccthen: settings - location - uncheck "GPS and "network positioning"17:46
pitufioNecc: My idea is to use the 3G modem w/ VoIP over IPSEC/SSL VPN on trusted servers17:47
SpeedEvilYou can still use it by mistake.17:47
Neccvoila you has no GPS until you "accidently" re-enable it again here17:47
SpeedEviluninstall maps, and all of the related.17:47
pitufioNecc: and to be coherent, disable all devices that I don't want to use17:47
Neccbetter to build a custom kernel then17:48
pitufioNecc: and through which some 'leaks' could occurs17:48
pitufioNecc: If it's the better solution, I'll :)17:48
Neccbuild a custom kernel, thats's 10017:48
Necci hope GPS is loaded by kernel <.<17:48
SpeedEvilIt's not.17:49
SpeedEvilGPS is an integral part of the modem.17:49
Necccool... so disabling GPS drivers mean no data packet too?17:49
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SpeedEvilNecc: The only way to keep GPS 100% disabled is to keep the cellmo off.17:52
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Neccor if the components are open source, then re-compile and load a GPS-free version?17:53
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SpeedEvilThey aren't.17:53
Neccor it is not possible again or too much work to do?17:53
SpeedEvilThe cellmo code is closed-source and signed - as I understand it.17:53
Neccwell then it is screwed17:54
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Neccor... install another OS witch do not has GPS?17:55
SpeedEvilYou cannot install any other code on the cellmo if it's not signed.17:57
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Neccthen... it is indeed screwed18:00
pitufiook... reasoning again: gelocalisation is made via GPS but also via the cellular network18:00
pitufioAs I need the cellular network18:00
pitufio, I cannot say "I don't want gps"18:00
pitufiowhich resolve one problem :D18:01
SpeedEvilYou can do several things - recompile a kernel which does not include requisite modules.18:01
SpeedEvilEdit the init scripts so those services are not started.18:01
pitufioyup. That's what I'll do18:01
SpeedEvilAttempt to take down the services18:02
Neccor format C:18:02
Neccoh no sorry that's windows...18:02
jaskanot that the cell network couldnt locate you anyway, albeit not at the same accuracy18:02
pitufiosure, but it leaks your geographic position, anyway18:02
pitufioand as I need the cell network, I have to cope with that18:03
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Necci still don't get why this "your loc is known" a problem18:03
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pitufioNecc: I have to consider it as not a problem, as I have to use the cellular network, which leaks my position.18:05
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pitufioNecc: but you can think of several real-life examples where it could be a problem18:05
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Neccdon't use facecrap and google and never upload personal informations to the net. solved.18:07
kerio>don't use the net18:07
pitufioNecc: you're missing some points there... :D18:08
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Neccok then tell me an exact example.18:09
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pitufioNecc: of what? positionning?18:13
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pitufioNecc: let's think of a guy that want to communicate some information to wikileaks18:13
pitufioCan you trust Tor?18:14
pitufioAnswer: no18:14
pitufio(large number of nodes are not maintained by nice people)18:14
pitufioBut well, this is quite OT...18:14
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pitufioBye guys, has to eat. See you and thanks for your support18:16
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Neccuse public netcaffe then... sigh18:16
Neccanyway i'm off18:17
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MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, any ideas why I see my settings in the URL bar? (e.g use_full_screen_by_default=true)18:23
timeless_mbpafaik we never really figured out the cause18:24
timeless_mbpbut basically there are two settings files18:25
timeless_mbpand we merged them in your browser instance18:25
timeless_mbp(typed history, settings)18:25
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timeless_mbpwhat do you mean18:32
timeless_mbpwhy did we never figure out why it happened?18:32
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corecodewhich micro-usb cables work for the n900?18:33
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timeless_mbpcorecode: eh?18:34
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SpeedEvilany cable with a micro-b on the end18:34
timeless_mbppresumably any micro-usb cable...18:34
corecodei bought some from ebay18:34
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corecodeand they don't work for charging18:35
MohammadAGshort D+/-18:35
MohammadAGwon't work for data though18:35
SpeedEvilwhat do you mean they don't work for charging18:35
corecodeit first says "Charging"18:35
corecodeand some seconds later "Not charging"18:35
timeless_mbpwhat is it plugged into?18:36
SpeedEvilwhen you plug it into a host?18:36
timeless_mbptap on the item and select pc suite18:36
timeless_mbpand which version of the system software are you using?18:36
corecodenow it appears to be chargin18:37
corecodeah no18:37
timeless_mbpwhat did you do?18:37
corecodethen it says "Not charging: Insufficient power"18:37
timeless_mbpremember, we aren't spying on you18:37
corecodeand immediatelly after that "Charging"18:37
timeless_mbpyou have to *tell* us when you do things18:37
corecodenow it stopped18:37
corecodei tapped pc suite18:37
corecodethat was off a dell monitor18:37
corecodefrom the dell itself18:38
corecodeit just says not charging18:38
timeless_mbpwhat os is the host running?18:38
MohammadAGprobably won't provide enough power18:38
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corecodeit works if i use the nokia cable18:39
SpeedEvilIs this an unusually long, skinny, or cheap cable?18:39
timeless_mbp(why would someone buy cables on ebay?)18:40
* SpeedEvil buys lots of stuff on ebay.18:41
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corecodeSpeedEvil: no, it looks exactly like the nokia cable18:47
corecodeeven has a fake nokia sticker18:47
SpeedEvilDo you own a DMM?18:48
corecodei'm not sure how i could hook up to the pins tho18:49
corecodei don't have a micro usb receptacle18:49
corecodebut i actually only want to buy a new cable18:50
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MohammadAGhas anyone ever attempted to port thunderbird19:10
RST38hThere was a thunderbird port that was, expectdly, too slow19:11
corecodei'm still stuck with my micro-usb cable problem19:11
MohammadAGRST38h, since you're here, which file of xchat's source is the channel view?19:12
hue_why port something so big and resource-hungry as thunderbird when we have claws-mail?19:12
RST38hMohammadAG: Bad, bad answer to this good question19:13
RST38hMohammadAG: there is no single file. the whole thing is one huge custom gtk+ widget19:14
corecodelast time i used claws was in 2002 or so19:15
corecodehow does it work on maemo?19:15
slonopotamuscorecode: in most terrible way it could19:15
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timeless_mbphue_: thunderbird has plugins19:16
timeless_mbpand probably a better set of backends19:16
timeless_mbpand probably better support19:16
timeless_mbpand probably a bigger userbase19:16
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MohammadAGthere must be some GtkScrolledView in there19:16
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timeless_mbpbut i use modest :)19:16
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RST38hMohammad: afaik no19:17
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corecodemodest doesn't save sent mail to imap :/19:17
corecodei'd like to add some sync job to it19:17
corecodebut it is a callback jungle19:17
hue_timeless_mbp: claws-mail does so.. bigger userbase is useless for me like a user, support is only for official and not ports..19:17
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timeless_mbplarger communities can support ports too19:18
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timeless_mbpsince usually problems aren't port specific19:18
timeless_mbpbut if you want to be idiotic and assume all problems are port specific19:18
timeless_mbpbe my guest19:18
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timeless_mbpno idea what "claws-mail does so" means btw19:19
timeless_mbpit's quite likely it has some extensions19:19
MohammadAGRST38h, i kinda doubt he recreated scrolling19:19
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: why not?19:20
timeless_mbpQt does19:20
timeless_mbpevery toolkit does :)19:20
hue_claws-mail does so was reply for 1st message about plugins.. i'm not trying to be idiotic btw19:20
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RST38hMohammadAG: the thing is custom drawn afaik19:21
RST38hMohammadAG: where he gets the position for the scrolling is a different question though19:22
RST38hHehe, the Hypnotoad is leading the tournament for the best Sochi 2014 mascot19:22
DHermitdoes anyone know if it's possible to pay with vodafone callya prepaid cards in ovi store?19:22
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DHermiti've asked nokia but they didn't answer my question19:25
* slonopotamus happily compiles on n90019:25
RST38hslono: but slowly?19:26
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slonopotamusRST38h: nope, why? 1.1ghz rocks19:31
slonopotamusRST38h: battery is a problem though :)19:31
RST38hslono: Swap would be the problem, I guess19:34
RST38hno matter what the cpu speed is19:34
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slonopotamusRST38h: it doesn't touch it :/19:34
slonopotamuscompiling C19:35
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slonopotamusRST38h: had to hack around with symlinks to avoid running out of space in rootfs :)19:36
RST38hslono: ehhehehe19:36
RST38hslono: /usr/include and/usr/lib on opt?19:36
slonopotamusnot whole /usr/lib (i'm not sure maemo will survive that), just biggies from /usr/lib, /usr/share and whole /usr/include19:38
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RST38hHmm, ok, CepiPerez has got pissed off as well, at the end19:38
frank__what's the difference between the ovi store and the ovi repository in application manager?19:38
timeless_mbpfrank__: one's a ui which in theory unlocks stuff for the other?19:38
RST38hStore is what sells you stuff19:38
RST38hRepository is where the stuff is stored19:38
slonopotamusfrank__: you need to pay in former one :)19:39
frank__there seems to be free applications in the store that aren't present in app manager though?19:39
RST38hAnd the Instinctiv people are pissed off as well.19:40
RST38hAre there any developers who are NOT pissed off at Nokia and Maemo by now???19:40
timeless_mbpfrank__: have you "bought" them?19:41
timeless_mbpbuy one19:41
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timeless_mbpin theory it'd "appear"19:41
MohammadAGfrank__, you need to enable red pill mode19:41
RST38hThe app manager will artifically block browsing of theovi repository19:41
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RST38hSo, no, none of Ovi apps will appear there19:41
timeless_mbpRST38h: oh, we're that stupid?19:42
timeless_mbpRST38h: nokia has a number of contractors who were paid to work on maemo19:42
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timeless_mbpi'd imagine that to some extent the contractors were quite happy to take money from nokia for maemo :)19:43
frank__so one purchases or downloads from the ovi store, and app manager uses the repository to keep them updated?19:43
RST38htimeless: Yes, you are THAT stupid,sorry19:43
RST38htimeless: And don't forget that you are basicvally going to let Harmattan device hang in vacuum19:43
RST38h(unless your marketing and devrelations make some incredible samersault between now and Harmattan release date)19:43
RST38htimeless: Harmattan is technically *not* Meego. It is basically Maemo, *but* Nokia does its best to discourage development for Maemo.19:44
timeless_mbpin theory we're going to actually _spend_ money on marketing this time around19:44
RST38hWill have to spend it on hiring snakes and pole dancers to work for your developers relations19:45
timeless_mbpRST38h: there was a guy whose writeup of meego conf sounds roughly like that :)19:45
RST38hJust to flex your way out of the current clusterfuck19:45
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timeless_mbpnah, we're scheduling a new one of those19:49
timeless_mbpthe current one isn't too important19:49
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wmaroneis there any indications that Harmattan will even see the light of day?19:51
RST38hScheduling a new clusterfuck?19:51
RST38hOk, cool19:51
* RST38h gets some popcorn19:51
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timeless_mbpbe sure to order long lasting :)19:51
RST38hRenaming Harmattan to AmigaOS5 may do the trick19:52
timeless_mbpiirc AmigaOS5 is already taken19:52
timeless_mbpwe might try 6 :)19:52
RST38hOk. AmigaOS6.19:52
timeless_mbpRST38h: have you had time to watch all *6* episodes of Meego (TV show)19:53
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timeless_mbp(a regular season of american tv programming has 13 episodes)19:55
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MohammadAGRST38h, I added kinetic scrolling to the userlist19:57
MohammadAGwas piss easy :P19:57
RST38htimeless: I prefer this interpretation:
RST38hMohammad: Oh really????19:57
* RST38h tried that for weeks, lazily though19:57
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timeless_mbpRST38h: is pretty awful20:02
timeless_mbpi like it as an explanation20:02
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* timeless_mbp sighs20:02
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timeless_mbpthe userlist is a disaster20:02
RST38hMohammad: get rid of the scrollbar,who cares, once you have proper scrolling =)20:04
RST38hdefault settings do not have the userlist, so no problem20:04
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timeless_mbpMeego Pilot Episode part 1 of 3 v. Viva Rock Vegas20:07
timeless_mbpMeego loses20:07
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RST38hMohammad: Wait. It is only for the *userlist*20:08
Ro9u3oRIm looking into updates my N900 with the pr1.2 update and was wondering whats the easiest way of doing so20:08
RST38hMohammad: Userlist is trivial, but kinda useless. How about adding it to the main view? =)20:08
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MohammadAGRST38h, working on it :P20:10
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chxRST38h: Oh another Z80 fanatic. C920:11
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corecodeso how do i know whether a cable is original nokia or not20:14
corecodeon amazon or ebay20:14
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MohammadAGjust buy it from Nokia20:15
RST38hdoes it matter?20:16
corecodeRST38h: i just want one that works20:16
corecodeMohammadAG: how?20:16
RST38h99% of them do20:16
corecodewell, then i got 2 which are in the 1%20:17
corecodeand if you read reviews on amazon, plenty of them say that the cable doesn't charge20:17
RST38hYou want a generic USB-to-micro-USB cable.20:17
corecodeyes, yes20:17
RST38hRadioShack sells them.20:17
corecodeone that works20:17
RST38hRadioShack sells ones that work20:17
corecodei'm not in the US20:17
RST38hWhere are you>20:18
corecodeand honestly, i don't want to shell out $20 for a non-original cable20:18
corecodeif i can even find one20:18
RST38hThat depends on where you are.20:18
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corecodei searched for one several months ago, and the stores didn't have them20:18
corecodethat was in germany tho20:18
RST38hAny generic photography kiosk around these parts of the world will sell you one for $5..$1020:19
Macerze germans dont have such a thing?20:19
corecodeMacer: i was surprised as well20:19
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RST38h(if you can stand garish purple colors)20:19
corecodeback then the mediamarkt didn't have it :/20:20
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corecodeoh well20:20
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RST38hOk. Have you got any cell phone places?20:20
* timeless_mbp likes viva rock vegas20:20
corecodeyea, i'm telling you: they want $20 for a cable20:20
RST38hLike...well... Tele2 or TMobile, or some generic shack selling phone accessories?20:21
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RST38hcorecode: Ok, the real cable will be in Nokia plastic packaging (with paper back), the microUSB side will be thick multi-part plug with "Nokia" engraved on one side20:22
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corecodeRST38h: yea, i know20:22
corecodesame for the fake ones i received :/20:22
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RST38hOk. Have you ever considered that the problem is NOT the cable???20:22
corecodei just wonder why this cable doesn't charge20:23
corecodeyes, i considered that20:23
RST38hGood. Start from this thought.20:23
corecodebut everything being the same, the nokia cable will charge20:23
corecodebut the fake one won't20:23
RST38hYour cables, do they allow your N900 communicate with the computer?20:23
RST38hGood. When N900 asks you to establish connection and you *cancel* the dialog (by clicking outside) does the phone begin showing charging status?20:24
corecodeyes, for maybe 1-10 seconds20:24
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corecodethen shows "Not charging"20:24
corecodeor "Not charging. Insufficient power"20:24
corecodedepending on the port i hook it up to20:24
corecodefun, i know.20:25
RST38hGood. Are you able to charge any other USB device by plugging it into the same USB port?20:25
SpeedEvilI bet on a nice simple answer.20:26
SpeedEvilA shitty high-resistance cable.20:26
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: cute20:26
corecodeRST38h: i don't have other micro-usb cables20:26
RST38hNah, cables are probably the last to blame for this crap20:26
corecodeSpeedEvil: that's my guess too20:26
SpeedEvilWhich is borderline between not charging, and charging.20:26
RST38hcorecode: Ok. Could you do this experiment20:26
SpeedEvilAnd theadditional resistance from the front cables does different stuff20:26
RST38hcorecode: Find some *other* computer with USB ports, preferably one which is *known* to charge USB devices successfully20:27
MohammadAGRST38h, I see what you mean, it's an asshole (chanlist)20:27
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RST38hcorecode: Try connecting N900 to that computer, see if it charges20:27
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: xchat's ui is a disaster :)20:27
corecodeRST38h: i have the same problem with two machines20:27
corecodeRST38h: and 2 more hubs20:27
alteregoCool, pyside-1.0 beta ..20:27
RST38hMohammad: chanlist is actually going to be easy, it is the main text view that is a freaking disaster20:27
timeless_mbpcorecode: hubs will generally *not* work20:27
corecodeRST38h: nokia cable = works, fake cable = doesn't20:27
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timeless_mbpunless they're powered20:28
RST38hcorecode: Hmm, ok20:28
corecodetimeless_mbp: self-powered hubs won't work?20:28
timeless_mbpand your average hub isn't20:28
corecodemine are20:28
RST38hcorecode: weird shit.20:29
corecodeSpeedEvil: you think the charge controller on the n900 checks the voltage levels and then stops drawing power when it detects that the drop is too large?20:29
RST38hcorecode: Got any friends or relatives with Nokia 5800 or similar phones? They all come with the same cables20:29
corecodeah i could ask my office mate20:30
corecodehe got an htc or so20:30
* RST38h hardly believes one can screw up usb cable to the point of having too much resistance (!) to charge stuff20:30
RST38hcorecode: try them, see if your friends are willing to part with them20:30
RST38hotherwise, you have only got a choice between cell phone outlet, digitsl photography store, and a trip to neighboring east-european country20:31
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trumeeNokia discouraging app developers to develop for maemo, what a shame!!,
timeless_mbpwow :(20:33
wmaronethat's.... no big surprise20:33
RST38has I said20:33
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petteriso whats the deal with free apps in the ovi store anyway. Is Nokia paying the development?20:35
timeless_mbpsome apps have non free versions20:37
timeless_mbpiirc angry birds has a free base and a $ expansion20:38
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luke-jrafaik everything in Ovi is non-free20:48
kerioluke-jr: what about fennec20:49
luke-jrthat's not in the normal app mgr?20:50
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MohammadAGwhat the fuck is nokia smoking exactly? it seems to be working nice21:06
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wmaronesomething laced, apparently21:08
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: ?21:09
aquatixhm, i notice mixed results with people synchronising their n900 with google through google exchange sync21:09
aquatixanyone has experience with it?21:10
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aquatixwe used to use nuevasync21:10
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GAN900MohammadAG, makes sense for commercial devs to not invest time in a dead platform.21:13
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GAN900It's just too bad Nokia never gives their existing customers a reasonable migration path.21:14
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RST38hHmm, Instinctiv's Peter does notappearto be very excitedabout Meego either =(21:18
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timeless_mbpRST38h: initially most vendors only give big connections to a small set of groups21:19
timeless_mbplower tiers tend to get smaller connections21:19
RST38hbut it is supposed to be "open"! :)21:19
timeless_mbpignoring nokia's special skills, its activity wrt future hardware platforms isn't unusual21:20
corecodewill meego support some scripting?21:20
timeless_mbpRST38h: nokia has never claimed to produce open hardware21:20
timeless_mbpcorecode: python or javascript via webkit...21:20
* timeless_mbp suspects21:20
corecodei'm always appaled by having to write C code/plugins for maemo stuff21:20
timeless_mbpnote that 'support' is a strange word21:20
RST38hBut it [Meego] is cross-platform!21:20
corecodefor example:  libsharing21:20
corecodei'd like to post to imgur21:21
corecodebut writing everything in C...21:21
RST38hI.e. once Instinctiv writes it for Meego,it is supposed to work on every Meego!21:21
timeless_mbpcorecode: most os's don't actually have scripts as tierd 121:21
infobottimeless_mbp meant: corecode: most os's don't actually have scripts as tier 121:21
corecodeinfobot: really?21:21
corecodeinfobot: ok.21:21
timeless_mbpRST38h: one platform has a 2x2 display21:21
timeless_mbpand another has a 10000000x100000 display21:21
timeless_mbpand instinctiv doesn't support displays smaller than 500000x50000021:22
timeless_mbpthen it won't work on the 2x2 display21:22
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* RST38h claims his stuff will work on both displays21:22
timeless_mbpcross platform doesn't negate the need for testing21:22
timeless_mbpRST38h: i take it none of your stuff is graphical? :)21:22
RST38h10000000x100000 will be kinda slow, indeed21:22
RST38hAll my stuff is graphical21:22
* timeless_mbp can't imagine anything working on a 2x2 display :)21:23
MohammadAG"Last week we spoke with Nokia. We were actively discouraged from developing for Maemo any further"21:23
RST38hThis works on Windows, Linux, Symbian, Maemo, andMSDOS:
timeless_mbpRST38h: until a product is launched, technical specs for it are generally considered secrets21:23
RST38hIt *will* work on2x2 display, although not guaranteed to be usable21:23
MohammadAGGAN900, it's not dead as long as 1) MeeGo is shit, 2) there is no alternative21:24
* RST38h can guess Meego device's tech specs like a freaking oracle21:24
wmaroneMohammadAG: qgil is on, you can pester him ;)21:24
RST38h800x480 display, either 16bpp or 24bpp21:24
timeless_mbpRST38h: fwiw the specs have actually changed w/in the last couple of weeks21:25
RST38h*possibly* 842x480 or 1024x768 display (will be tablet then)21:25
RST38hThese specs will not.21:25
timeless_mbpRST38h: seriously21:25
RST38hThere are both common-sense and technicalreasons for that21:25
timeless_mbpRST38h: this is nokia we're talking about21:25
timeless_mbpwhere does common-sense come in?21:25
RST38h1) There is a limited number of sources for these displays, nokia or not21:25
timeless_mbpRST38h: again, we try to be stupid21:26
timeless_mbpwe had a great plan to be stupid21:26
RST38h2) 2weeks before release, mechanics are already fixed, cannot change display all that much21:26
timeless_mbpRST38h: we've also changed mechanics21:26
timeless_mbpso please don't play oracle21:26
RST38hBut not to accomodate so much bigger display21:26
timeless_mbpyou're family quite impressively21:26
timeless_mbpoh, you got me, we won't ship a 100000000x100000000 display21:27
RST38hWon't even ship 1600x1200, I am sure21:27
* timeless_mbp thinks 2x2 is still on the table21:27
RST38hWon'tship 320x240 either21:27
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timeless_mbpit'd be fun to run on older symbian style hardware :)21:27
timeless_mbpmaemo was running on the n95...21:28
RST38hBy the way, your hardware follies aside, there is an example of a platform where you cannot expect *any* fixed display size at *any* particular device. Guess which one.21:28
timeless_mbpwhich was 320x24021:28
RST38hOriginal Symbian was 176x208.21:28
RST38hOr the double of that (352x416)21:28
RST38h320x240 is a WinMo size, not hardcore oldskool Symbian21:29
timeless_mbpbut realistically we aren't going to run on oldskool21:29
timeless_mbpbut hypothetically outdated....21:29
RST38hBut anyways, willing to guess that really bad, evil platform?No fixed screen size?21:30
jacekowskiany desktop platform21:30
jacekowskijava ME21:30
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RST38hAnd yes, my apps can handle that too, to a certain degree.21:31
jacekowskiif somebody ties app to specific resolution he's braindead21:32
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timeless_mbpjacekowski: have you ever met nokia before?21:32
jacekowskiapp should scale to whatever resolution is avaliable21:32
timeless_mbpcan i interest you in Ovi Suite?21:32
jacekowskiovi suite is braindead21:32
timeless_mbpwell, yes, there is that21:33
timeless_mbpbut it's also fixed resolution21:33
timeless_mbpand doesn't really fit on my Ideapad w/ taskbar on right :)21:33
jacekowskibecause it's an example of poor design21:33
* RST38h suggests a dead horse instead, those tend to be more interesting than Ovi Suite21:33
jacekowskion desktop you should work on 640x48021:34
jacekowskias minimum resolution you can get21:34
timeless_mbpjacekowski: actually21:34
RST38hAnyway, it does not matter how broken Nokia UIs are. Third parties do not have to repeat the same mistakes21:34
timeless_mbpdesktops in portrait are shorter :)21:34
timeless_mbpc.f. ideapad21:34
jacekowskiportrait is braindead21:34
jacekowskiand you can rotate it21:34
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MohammadAGwmarone, I'd rather not21:35
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RST38hMeanwhile, Google opens up its eBook shop/reader site21:38
RST38hAnyone knows the mobile URL for that?21:38
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linglinghi, a question: when i try to delete flashblock with "apt-get remove flashblock" it says "E. Couldn't find package flashblock"... what do I wrong?21:40
timeless_mbplingling: dpkg -l *flashblock* ?21:40
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timeless_mbp(since your screen will probably trigger truncation...)21:41
linglingno packages found matching...21:41
timeless_mbphow did you install it?21:41
erstazidpkg -l | grep flashblock21:41
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erstazilingling: ^21:42
timeless_mbpwas this into fennec?21:42
timeless_mbpif so, you probably just use its addons manager...21:42
corecodeis there an easy way to type "|"?21:42
timeless_mbpon my keyboard it's blue-GBP21:42
timeless_mbpsince someone helpfully remapped GBP as PIPE :)21:42
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timeless_mbpanyway, the hard way is blue-SYM21:44
timeless_mbpiirc it's there21:44
timeless_mbpor you can collapse the keyboard and use the vkb21:44
corecodethat's not as easy21:44
corecodehow did you remap?21:44
timeless_mbpi have the hebrew key layout installd21:44
timeless_mbpand afaiu that's what's changing my layout21:44
timeless_mbp(but i'm not really certain)21:44
timeless_mbpyou lose blue-SYM (only downside)21:45
timeless_mbptry it21:45
corecodeeh what?21:45
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timeless_mbpthe layout?21:49
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erstaziHas anyone tried Sygic?22:16
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jacekowskiit's crap22:21
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jacekowskibut it's only option22:21
timeless_mbpwasn't there an opened source mapping app?22:21
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erstazitimeless_mbp: there are but they are not standalone22:22
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erstaziIf Data plans in the US were not so horrible,… it would make sense to use a non-standalone application22:23
timeless_mbpwayfinder is the one i'm thinking of22:23
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erstazitimeless_mbp: sygic gives you all the maps,… so you only have to use GPS and no net connection22:23
erstazitimeless_mbp: that is the definition of "standalone" in this case22:24
timeless_mbpwayfinder doesn't let you do that?22:24
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RST38hany gps-using app on the n900 will have ot access the networkto get positioning assistance and hence cannot be called fully standalone22:26
erstaziRST38h: sygic doesn't need network access.22:26
RST38hit does, to get the position22:27
javispedromoo RST38h22:27
RST38hreHI javispedro22:27
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javispedroa sane N900 can cold start without any connectivity, or at least my N900 can :)22:27
ShadowJKYou can deny internet access and wait a bit longer :-)22:27
erstaziRST38h: << then this is wrong?22:28
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RST38hRobert X. Cringley warns WikiLeaks could launch Web War III!22:30
* javispedro builds home facebook bunker22:31
erstaziwhat if the world governments take down wikileaks and the key to the encrypted file was wrong?22:32
ShadowJKGPS Fix, without network access, in 2 minutes 15 seconds, indoors :-)22:33
javispedroShadowJK: I concur (reproduced on ireland, where data was a nogo)22:33
RST38h*or* the Pentagon is keeping way more GPS sats than necessary above .FI22:33
RST38hShadowJK: I am sure they are doing it to track *you*!!! =)22:33
nox-RST38h, gps sats arent geostationary... :)22:34
RST38h5-10 minutes to a fix here22:34
ShadowJKit's seeing: 15%, 80%, 70%, 15%, 100%, 48%22:34
erstaziI mean, if I had constant "3G" connection where ever I travelled and an unlimited plan only cost 15€ here in the US, then I wouldn't mind having network always on when needing the GPS.22:35
RST38hwe have got that22:35
ShadowJKTheir new constellation 2010 or was it constellation 2011 is going to reduce coverage over .fi22:35
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erstaziin the US? there is not consistent reliable network connection here22:35
erstazi3g across the country is a joke.22:36
RST38hwe all know that by now22:36
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RST38hwill you now complain about greedy telcos and their 2-year indenture plans?22:36
erstaziRST38h: no 2 year plan here (:22:37
kasansweatNew USA n900 owner here: I d/led the Ovi Mobile Maps 10, and have seen all kinds of conflicting info about downloading the actual maps? What's the most current info?22:37
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javispedro"Ovi Maps 10"? Prepare to be disappointed.22:38
erstazitimeless_mbp: thanks for the note about wayfinder.22:38
RST38hhe probably means Sygic22:38
javispedrohope so.22:39
Macerovimaps sucks in general... google maps was far superior imo22:39
kasansweatyep, Sygic -- whats the deal on that?22:39
ShadowJKWhen I bought sygic they gave me the map download link too22:39
Macergoogle nav is the best i've used so far minus an actual gps22:39
ShadowJKgoogle's maps are a bit incomplete around here :/22:40
timeless_mbpShadowJK: where are you?22:40
ShadowJKand ovi maps is overcomplete, it once suggested I should walk across the river on a tree that had fallen over the river :D22:40
merlin_1991last week google maps routing suggested a street for me that doesn't exist at all22:40
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, .fi..22:40
kasansweathaha, ah well, I own a separate GPS, was just curious. I'd still like to try it out tho.22:40
timeless_mbpShadowJK: um, you've got "forest", and "lake"22:41
timeless_mbpstay off both22:41
kasansweatso you have to pay for Sygic? I didn't do that22:41
kasansweat(and perhaps I won't)22:41
ShadowJKkasansweat, you probably don't get the maps then?22:41
kasansweatCorrect, app and no maps22:41
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ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, hm, I wonder if ovi maps knows about the part of the local river that's rockbed and shallow enough certain times of year to cross by vehicle :-)22:43
* javispedro notes that trying to use a epson printer with cups BEFORE installing gutenprint results in silent failure. No error message on logs even with verbose log level.22:43
ShadowJK(and roads leading up to both sides)22:43
kasansweatSo, as I understand it -- you *do* have to pay for Sygic maps -- and they're not that good?22:43
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: grr22:43
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ShadowJKI don't remember which of the two dataproviders sygic uses for maemo SMM10..22:44
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javispedrothey shop both providers? wow22:45
erstazitoo bad there isn't Ovi Suite for linux ): I mean, yeah one can use virtualization but it isn't native.22:45
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ShadowJKjavispedro, iirc they use the one for everything except maemo smm, and the other for every other version22:46
* javispedro lols at the "special customer treatment" for maemo users, as evidenced by
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javispedrosearch for the n900 foot note22:47
erstazihaha javispedro22:47
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javispedrohum... €50 for europe? doesn't sound awful.22:48
ShadowJKYeah, tomtom wanted €50 just for Scandinavia, iirc :/22:49
* javispedro paid more for navicore.... in time to get 2008 upgrade and witness the slow death of wayfinder22:49
jacekowskii paid £100 for tomtom with full eu map22:49
ke^im trying to get this running under my n900. well my software wont accept the path of it22:49
jacekowskiNow Playing: Katy Perry - Teenage Dream22:49
erstazijavispedro: 20€ for north america22:50
ke^but tries to add default "components" and "distribution values which are missing22:50
erstazike^: ./ should work22:50
ke^lets see22:50
ke^distribution value ./ ?22:50
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ke^yep it worked. ty22:51
javispedroerstazi: at least in .es I'm already used to being ripped off by expensive cartography22:52
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kasansweatha, the n900 foot note says contact them? what do you think they tell people? weird22:52
* javispedro remembers the first metroguide... it did not even have 100% of major roads, but that did not stop garmin from applying their usual prohibitive price (+$100)22:53
ShadowJKThey brought out a new version, and emailed upgrade instructions to everyone. However, people seem to not be able to read emails, and where whining they didn't get upgrade instructions. I suspect it has something to do with that22:54
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ShadowJKThe Ovi Store version is more castrated, Ovi didn't allow fullscreen and many other features :-)22:56
javispedroah, Nokia applying their usual suicidal marketing strategies22:56
ShadowJKLike multitasking :D22:56
RST38hjavispedro: looks like freaking sabotage22:57
ShadowJKSygic Maps + FMTX is pretty awesome. The music from media player pauses and sygic's voice guide tells you to make a turn, and then the music resumes :)22:58
javispedroinsanely long approval times -- check. stupid policies -- check.22:58
javispedroShadowJK: thank libplayback ;)22:58
ShadowJKWell, people don't know about ctrl-backspace, and then there's probably a policy forbidding apps from using the gps in the background22:59
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ShadowJKUnfortunately there's no policy against that shake-and-surf thing that eats batteries for lunch22:59
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alteregoI doubt that has anything to do with fmtx23:01
alteregoThat's sygic playing nice with mafw I'd imagine.23:01
javispedroor libplayback23:01
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javispedromaemo - navteq; rest - teleatlas23:03
javispedroconsidering Navteq is the Nokia-owned one, I wonder if this means they get their source data at a reduced rate23:04
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javispedro... some kind of discount for being the only routing app for maemo.23:04
ShadowJKWell.. Nokia itself said it itself gets no preferrential treatment from navteq (yeah right lol)23:04
javispedromight explain the €50 price.23:05
javispedroor not, as iphone is $75 which is pretty similar23:05
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javispedrobtw, their server ( is clearly missing mod_rewrite... fugly urls.23:06
chxif you own sygic, does it have public transit planning?23:06
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javispedrochx: additional €19 per country, seemingly23:07
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chxjavispedro: where do you see that23:08
javispedro, search for "Real-Time Traffic"23:08
chxjavispedro: I emailed sygic and they have answered the most useless way23:08
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chxreal time traffic is for cars23:08
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chxthat's not public transit23:08
javispedrosorry misread your question23:08
chxi am perfectly willing to shell out , if necessary, hundreds of dollars for any gizmo that gives me offline public transit planning23:09
javispedroyou tried Métro under garnetVM?23:09
chxgizmo or software23:09
chxjavispedro: url?23:09
chx this?23:09
javispedroit is actually the 2th reason I keep Garnet around...23:09
javispedroit does not integrate with a gps at all, though23:10
chxthe way it reads, you need to enter stations?23:11
chxand yeah no gps23:11
chxwhat i would die for is to be able to click " I am here. I want to go address X. Tell me how. "23:12
chxthat's what i call a public transit route planner :)23:12
javispedroit's a hybrid one then23:12
javispedrowith Métro you're able t say "I'm on station X; I'd like to go station Y.". It will use whichever line is shortest.23:13
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javispedroit also has POIs (attached to stations) so it works well for tourism23:13
chxhrm, been a time since i researched it, apparently this feature is now available on a few garmin devices23:14
* chx dials santa23:14
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javispedro€10 PER CITY??23:16
javispedrogarmin indeed.23:16
chxhm and this series is usb powered23:16
chxi have a 10000 mah battery for that already23:17
chxfor sure it powers the device for a "few" extra hours.23:17
chxwait, 10 EUR per city?????23:17
chxholy batman23:17
chx'cos the 1200 is a mere $90 new23:18
MohammadAGXChat for Windows looks like shit23:18
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kasansweatSo the sygic maps still must be paid for in the US?23:21
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ke^littlebit too expensive23:23
ke^some price down and id buy23:24
javispedro€20 expensive?23:24
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ke^reads 40 €23:24
kasansweatWell, yeah, probably not gonna happen since I have a tomtom already.23:24
ke^oh nordics is 2023:24
kasansweatthanks for the info23:24
ke^whole europe is 4023:24
ke^i think about it23:24
javispedrosingle country (or US) is €2023:24
ke^cause the interface allready seems very fast.23:25
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MohammadAGis it me, or is the Nexus S a bit underpowered?23:28
javispedroisn't it just a repackaged galaxy s (at least according to slashdot)?23:28
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alteregoS sounds like a budget model anyway23:29
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dominikbis it possible to prevent a connection pop up when trying to open a connection? i tried setting the ConnectInBackground property on QtNetworkSession but it failed. any ideas?23:30
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GAN900MohammadAG, especially since Qualcomm's 1GHz is a little weak.23:43
MohammadAGthought it was a cortex A8, at least that's what enagadget said23:44
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GAN900Yeah, but only sort of.23:44
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