| MohammadAG | ze fuck? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| korhojoa | probably under /media | 00:00 |
| NooBmonk3y | ahaaaaaaaa | 00:00 |
| korhojoa | or something | 00:00 |
| NooBmonk3y | gottit | 00:00 |
| thp | NooBmonk3y: no / at the beginning | 00:00 |
| MohammadAG | yep | 00:00 |
| korhojoa | not / | 00:00 |
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| NooBmonk3y | hmmmmmmm | 00:01 |
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| NooBmonk3y | greg@zingelspc:/media/FreeAgent Drive/QTHealthcheck/Healthcheck$ git push origin master | 00:03 |
| NooBmonk3y | Permission denied (publickey). | 00:03 |
| NooBmonk3y | fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly | 00:03 |
| NooBmonk3y | this is why i dont like git :p | 00:03 |
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| MohammadAG | did you do git init and all that stuff? | 00:04 |
| NooBmonk3y | nope | 00:04 |
| MohammadAG | and put your ssh key on gitorious.org | 00:04 |
| NooBmonk3y | the instructions didnt say that lol | 00:04 |
| MohammadAG | ... | 00:04 |
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| jacekowski | i just don't understand why people like git so much | 00:04 |
| NooBmonk3y | erm nope lol | 00:04 |
| jacekowski | svn is so much better | 00:04 |
| NooBmonk3y | lol | 00:04 |
| jacekowski | and so much easier to use | 00:04 |
| NooBmonk3y | gui? :) | 00:04 |
| MohammadAG | cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub | 00:05 |
| MohammadAG | post that on gitorious.org | 00:05 |
| MohammadAG | in add ssh keys | 00:05 |
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| MohammadAG | then git init; git add .; (instructions from repo on gitorious.org); git commit; git push origin master; | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | you only have to repeat the last two steps each time you change files | 00:06 |
| * MohammadAG goes to bed, gnite :) | 00:06 | |
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| NooBmonk3y | meh | 00:07 |
| NooBmonk3y | MohammadAG, | 00:07 |
| NooBmonk3y | noooooooooo | 00:07 |
| NooBmonk3y | i'm almost there! | 00:07 |
| NooBmonk3y | added keys | 00:08 |
| pupnik | http://babycage.net/babycage.php BabyCage.net, Infant Confinement Specialists since 2001 | 00:08 |
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| thp | NooBmonk3y: so i assume you're not interested in improvement suggestions to the "old" healthcheck code anymore? | 00:09 |
| NooBmonk3y | erm, well, kinda ... but realistically, i'm so close to the new one, and it looks better, best to stick with one :) | 00:09 |
| NooBmonk3y | as i'm aiming this one to be a bit more multi-platform | 00:09 |
| NooBmonk3y | (eventually) | 00:10 |
| thp | does the new one already have all the features of the old one? | 00:10 |
| NooBmonk3y | allthough always interested where i went wrong ;) | 00:10 |
| NooBmonk3y | almost all + some new | 00:10 |
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| NooBmonk3y | it's about 70% of old + more :) | 00:10 |
| NooBmonk3y | so i'm just going through and adding sensor checks and camera checks atm | 00:11 |
| thp | not "wrong" per se, but i can understand why things are slow | 00:11 |
| NooBmonk3y | ahhhhhh :P | 00:12 |
| NooBmonk3y | dare i ask, i went for the "it works approach" over the correct approach? | 00:12 |
| thp | just wanted to clarify that python isn't slow :p | 00:13 |
| NooBmonk3y | lol i'm not disagreeing :) | 00:13 |
| NooBmonk3y | i actually like python, but stuggled for a while :) | 00:13 |
| NooBmonk3y | my version may have been slow, though :p | 00:14 |
| NooBmonk3y | probably due to lack of knowledge :) | 00:14 |
| Funnyface | meh for some reason my phone won't pick up HSDPA these days, only UMTS | 00:14 |
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| NooBmonk3y | aghhhhhhhhhhhh | 00:15 |
| Funnyface | if I use the 3g/2g/dual applet to switch it to GSM only, then back to auto, it normally picks up a HSDPA connection for a while, but then sooner or later it falls back to 3G :> | 00:15 |
| NooBmonk3y | missus on her way back and 15 mins to wash, clean tidy n sober lol | 00:15 |
| thp | NooBmonk3y: there's just a lot of os.popen with pipes and awk/sed/... in there where you could either open files directly for reading or do the text processing (grep/sed/awk) more efficiently in python | 00:15 |
| alterego | Just spent an hour doing a configuration dialog .. | 00:15 |
| NooBmonk3y | ahhhhhh | 00:15 |
| alterego | Think I'm losing it .. | 00:15 |
| alterego | It's only 5 widgets .. | 00:15 |
| NooBmonk3y | thp, os.popen i thought opened the file? | 00:16 |
| NooBmonk3y | although i understand awk etc reads them and plays with them to get the bits i need | 00:16 |
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| NooBmonk3y | lol alterego | 00:16 |
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| thp | NooBmonk3y: it opens a process ("p"open) | 00:16 |
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| thp | and if you have a pipe, you open a new process for every part of the pipe (cat ... | grep ... | awk ...) | 00:17 |
| thp | erm.. actually, the "p" in popen stands for pipe according to the docs.. | 00:18 |
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| thp | but yeah, it still opens a process, which is slow | 00:19 |
| alterego | python startup times on maemo are horrible as soon as you start using hildon/gtk or Qt bindings. | 00:20 |
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| alterego | python actually starts up pretty quickly if you're not importing any of that .. | 00:21 |
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| mikhas | so python import is actually slow? | 00:21 |
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| thp | yes, it loads the libraries | 00:22 |
| alterego | No, python importing gtk is slow | 00:22 |
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| alterego | It's more likely in the gtk/hildon bindings than it is python import | 00:22 |
| thp | ..which loads the gtk libraries | 00:22 |
| alterego | Some crazy crap in their initialization. | 00:22 |
| alterego | thp indeed. | 00:23 |
| mikhas | well yes, sure loads the libs ;-) but other apps have to do that, too | 00:23 |
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| mikhas | alterego, you easily verify that by trying to import different libs/different parts of GTK (doesnt python have this "import foo from blah"?), and measure it | 00:24 |
| mikhas | *you could easily verify that | 00:24 |
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| thp | "import foo from blah" still needs to load the whole library - it only affects what gets imported into the local namespace | 00:24 |
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| thp | and you should run a profiler if you really want to know where the loading time is going, i don't know :p | 00:25 |
| mikhas | well, I kinda doubt it's the lib loading per se ... | 00:25 |
| thp | loading + initialization | 00:26 |
| alterego | mikhas: that's just handling namespace. | 00:27 |
| alterego | That and gtk is one module .. | 00:27 |
| pexi | http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=2481&c=zte_v7 | 00:27 |
| alterego | Well, and gdk | 00:27 |
| mikhas | oh, you can use import inside functions ... | 00:27 |
| mikhas | python is funky | 00:27 |
| alterego | Sure, you could do it asynchronously ^.^ | 00:27 |
| mikhas | http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/PerformanceTips#ImportStatementOverhead | 00:28 |
| alterego | It'll bever be as good as native code though. | 00:28 |
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| alterego | And C++ is easy enough to become dangerous in with little effort. | 00:28 |
| mikhas | err | 00:29 |
| mikhas | good for you if you feel that C++ is easy | 00:29 |
| mikhas | you must be a natural talent ;-) | 00:29 |
| alterego | I don't think it's easy, | 00:29 |
| alterego | I think it's easy to learn and become dangerous in ;) | 00:30 |
| alterego | To learn it fully, well, that's something else. | 00:30 |
| mikhas | I dont think I get your point | 00:30 |
| alterego | Well, nevermind. | 00:31 |
| alterego | I have one more dialog to refactor. | 00:31 |
| alterego | Waypoints and POI | 00:31 |
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| alterego | In Qt Mobility we can inhibit screen lock, which is good for my app because you want it to stay on, but I was thinking, I'd like to be able to explicitly lock the device and not have it unlock it next time it polls the screensaver inhibit procedure. | 00:43 |
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| alterego | "org.freedesktop.Gypsy.Device" | 00:44 |
| alterego | neat | 00:44 |
| alterego | So something sends out events through dbus when the GPS is on :D | 00:45 |
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| alterego | For position information, satellite status etc, that's cool. | 00:45 |
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| pupnik | javispedro not around eh | 01:13 |
| pupnik | hi SpeedEvil1 | 01:14 |
| * SpeedEvil1 sighs. | 01:14 | |
| pupnik | what's the news | 01:14 |
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| jacekowski | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t32VQ2HeELA | 01:24 |
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| BCMM | will maemo mind if i edit /etc/hostname? | 01:28 |
| BCMM | also, will it stay edited? | 01:28 |
| jacekowski | no, yes | 01:28 |
| jacekowski | what's the point | 01:28 |
| jacekowski | most of stuff there is based on bluetooth name anyways | 01:29 |
| BCMM | the stuff where? | 01:29 |
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| BCMM | well, for a start it would distinguish mine on router config screens | 01:30 |
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| jacekowski | on phone | 01:31 |
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| BCMM | i mean, what stuff? you mean things like the filemanager? | 01:31 |
| jacekowski | yds | 01:31 |
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| dolp | lasipalatsi.. mmm :D | 02:17 |
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| pupnik | very nice, the meego conferences are playable without flash - just view page source ans search for .flv | 02:31 |
| pupnik | mplayer http://meego_conference2010.s3.amazonaws.com/meego_conference2010_357.flv | 02:31 |
| pupnik | for example | 02:31 |
| pupnik | http://conference2010.meego.com/program/schedule | 02:32 |
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| alterego | cool | 02:33 |
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| lolcat | No luck with fmms | 04:57 |
| lolcat | :( | 04:57 |
| lolcat | WAP-gateway: 010.010.010.011 | 04:59 |
| lolcat | Where do I put this in? | 04:59 |
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| lolcat | I got fMMS to work! | 05:05 |
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| djszapi | Could someone manage a working doc viewer on N900 ?? | 06:01 |
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| doc|home | djszapi: I haven't tried but abiword worked on the n800. I don't know if there's an n900 specific port. | 06:04 |
| djszapi | I did not see, just freoffice which causes a segfault during the startup... | 06:05 |
| djszapi | to be honest, I would have a bit distinct expectation about an 'official' package... | 06:06 |
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| pupnik | djszapi: if you mean a document viewer, there are many. If you mean the microsoft .doc file format, what would you be willing to pay for one? | 06:49 |
| pupnik | you could also do a good thing for humanity and bounce back .doc files as unreadable | 06:50 |
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| Choom | the spec is available, so it's pretty readable -- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc313118.aspx | 06:59 |
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| erstazi | or could run OpenOffice | 07:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or ask "his boss" why there's no such reader | 07:06 |
| pupnik | .doc isn't a document format. at least not as long as whatever is supposed to parse it must handle 5+ different formats. | 07:09 |
| pupnik | maybe you could call it a family of formats | 07:09 |
| pupnik | and microsoft chose - as a strategic ploy - to do this, in order that a free document viewer would be prohibitely expensive to implement | 07:11 |
| pupnik | not to mention competitor word processors | 07:11 |
| pupnik | the economic harm of this jackassery is difficult to estimate, but if you think to your document-formatting headaches throughout your life, much of that could have been avoided | 07:12 |
| * erstazi misses this channel (used to come here when the 770 first came out). Still waiting on his free t-shirt from one of the Nokia guys | 07:12 | |
| pupnik | it was nice when we were the only game in town, erstazi | 07:13 |
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| erstazi | yep | 07:13 |
| pupnik | maybe a little too sleepy | 07:13 |
| erstazi | talking about my free t-shirt | 07:13 |
| erstazi | haha | 07:13 |
| erstazi | anyhow, recently,… I bought a n900 and I am excited as my 770 was white-screened about a year ago by a step-child. << never let children touch your tech equipment | 07:14 |
| pupnik | i vaguely remember your nick | 07:15 |
| pupnik | congrats erstazi :) like it so far? | 07:16 |
| erstazi | pupnik: this was 5~ years ago,… so I don't expect you to remember | 07:16 |
| pupnik | for me, it's the _only_ cool device on the market | 07:16 |
| erstazi | pupnik: haven't received it yet. it is in the mail. I think I got a steal on it since I only paid 220€ | 07:17 |
| erstazi | brand new | 07:17 |
| pupnik | can I order one from you? | 07:17 |
| erstazi | haha | 07:17 |
| erstazi | pupnik: have you tried MeeGo yet? (I do not like RPM-based distros much, even though I run one on main server) | 07:18 |
| pupnik | yes i have. | 07:19 |
| erstazi | sad to see maemo go, honestly. but what are your thoughts on it? | 07:19 |
| pupnik | in some ways it's better than maemo. it's a foundation. it's open. it's supported by two major vendors not one | 07:20 |
| erstazi | right | 07:20 |
| pupnik | i'm sort of sad to see gtk stuff go away | 07:21 |
| erstazi | exactly | 07:21 |
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| erstazi | but, then again, I was shocked they went with GTK in ITOS 2005 | 07:21 |
| erstazi | since it is Nokia, that is. | 07:21 |
| pupnik | what did you think they would do? | 07:21 |
| pupnik | qt? | 07:22 |
| erstazi | Qt | 07:22 |
| pupnik | i think gtk was do-able at that time | 07:22 |
| erstazi | right | 07:22 |
| erstazi | I agree | 07:22 |
| erstazi | nevermind, Nokia acquired Trolltech in 2008 | 07:22 |
| erstazi | either way, I might dual boot, not sure yet. | 07:26 |
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| pupnik | erstazi: how about running a changeroot on n900 with two x-servers - one maemo and one meego? | 07:38 |
| pupnik | wonder if it's possible | 07:38 |
| erstazi | pupnik: hmmm, I am up for the challenge (: | 07:41 |
| ieatlint | i don't think it's realistic to run more than one x server on a system | 07:42 |
| pupnik | maybe X can arbitrate between two OS's but the rest of the devices wouldn't support that out of the box | 07:42 |
| pupnik | ieatlint: i do it on my PC fairly frequently | 07:42 |
| ieatlint | i recall being given some very in depth reasoning why... | 07:42 |
| ieatlint | there's no reason to run two x servers though, it's fully possible to just run 1 server for both methinks | 07:43 |
| erstazi | maybe it is similar to our mothers telling us not to double-dip? | 07:43 |
| pupnik | http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/multiple-x.html | 07:43 |
| ieatlint | heh, alright then | 07:44 |
| ieatlint | would still be unadvisable on the n900 if you look at how much ram x uses | 07:45 |
| pupnik | agree | 07:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how would you share other resources? battery charging, accelerometers, notification LEDs, audio... all not designed to run with two concurrently active systems | 07:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | wlan, mass storage mode, BT... | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 07:49 |
| ieatlint | some awesome race conditions is how | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | a chroot might be fine to runn meego userland apps, but for sure you'll not run a whole system this way | 07:51 |
| ieatlint | just saw a presentation from the guys who did fcam | 07:53 |
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| khertan_ | Morning | 07:54 |
| ieatlint | they did some weird stuff to get fcam working, heh | 07:54 |
| ieatlint | but they seem to have some interesting stuff still coming | 07:55 |
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| thp | khertan_: did you manage to implement the hildon notification stuff? forgot to mention that you have to kill hildon-desktop after the config file change (or reboot) | 08:02 |
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| khertan_ | thp, i ve carrefully note it in my todo list and will do it this morning in the train ;) | 08:03 |
| khertan_ | thanks for the tips | 08:03 |
| khertan_ | i must go on ... going to office. Bye | 08:03 |
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| lolcat | do n900 support videocalls? | 08:20 |
| wmarone | over skype yes | 08:21 |
| lolcat | dammit | 08:22 |
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| kerio | why? | 10:18 |
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| jase21 | Hi, I have a doubt. When I connect to internet, I get a notification on maemo update. Should I do that? If so will I get PR 1.3? Or should I connect to pc and flash it using flasher? | 10:42 |
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| jacekowski | try to update on phone | 10:43 |
| jacekowski | but make a backup | 10:43 |
| jacekowski | as it may fail | 10:43 |
| jase21 | oh | 10:43 |
| jacekowski | or just will happen at all | 10:43 |
| jase21 | ok | 10:43 |
| jacekowski | and if it fails, then you can flash it with pc | 10:43 |
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| jacekowski | or you can play with it to make it work | 10:43 |
| jacekowski | but just flashing it is faster | 10:44 |
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| jase21 | jacekowski I'll try update via phone first :) Will the inbuit backup utility suffice? | 10:44 |
| jacekowski | yes | 10:44 |
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| jacekowski | just backup to sd card | 10:45 |
| jase21 | jacekowski: ok. | 10:45 |
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| jase21 | I don't have skype in N900 at present. How will I know whether I'm running global version? | 10:46 |
| RobbieThe1st | It really doesn't matter what version you had before flashing | 10:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | It'll flash no matter what | 10:47 |
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| jase21 | okay. Is global version the superset of all the versions? | 10:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | I think so. Or, at least, there's nothing disabled in it | 10:48 |
| jase21 | okay | 10:48 |
| jase21 | Thanks. | 10:48 |
| RobbieThe1st | Compared to the USA version, I'm not sure what real difference there is. Others may have some features disabled | 10:48 |
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| jase21 | alright. | 10:48 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:56 |
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| zeev | Hi! Please help! how can I undelete files that I've removed from my N900 with rm -rf | 11:20 |
| ieatlint | heh | 11:21 |
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| zeev | is it possible to recover it somehow? | 11:23 |
| Appiah | testdisk | 11:24 |
| Appiah | can recover files | 11:24 |
| Appiah | goodluck | 11:24 |
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| ieatlint | that would only work on the sd card | 11:24 |
| RobbieThe1st | Wait... why? | 11:25 |
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| ieatlint | the mmc is ubifs if i recall right, which isn't a supported fs | 11:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | Actually, provided the files are on the MyDocs, wouldn't any Windows/fat32 undelete utility work? | 11:25 |
| ieatlint | ah, right, i always forget that mydocs is fat32 :P | 11:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | ieatlint: Actually, it's the rootfs that's ubifs. Optfs is ext2 also. | 11:26 |
| ieatlint | ok, it'd work on the sd card or mydocs | 11:26 |
| zeev | so I can use fat32 undelete? | 11:26 |
| zeev | or testdisk? | 11:26 |
| Appiah | both | 11:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | Try fat32 undelete first | 11:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | if it doesn't work... | 11:26 |
| zeev | is there such thing in linux? | 11:27 |
| zeev | in mtools? | 11:27 |
| ieatlint | zeev: oh, and don't write *anything* to the disk | 11:27 |
| ieatlint | so for instance, say it's in mydocs, don't write anything into mydocs (or run an application that will write something there) | 11:28 |
| zeev | should I connect it via usb to my computer or do it on n900 itself? | 11:28 |
| RobbieThe1st | Connect to computer | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | grr | 11:28 |
| lcuk | zeev, how did you accidentally manage to do that? did you fall on your phone, open a console window, somehow manage to randomly type a command and enter it? | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: i got nokia'd? | 11:29 |
| RobbieThe1st | You can easily have it unmounted, and have more tools available | 11:29 |
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| zeev | ok I'll try it right now... | 11:29 |
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| zeev | does anybody know an equivalent of dos's undelete for linux? | 11:34 |
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| phellarv | zeev: http://freshmeat.net/projects/unrm/ | 11:35 |
| phellarv | ;-P | 11:35 |
| zeev | is it for fat32? | 11:36 |
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| kerio | so... metamaterials can boost antennas just by existing | 11:39 |
| kerio | shweet | 11:39 |
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| zeev | how can I create an image of disk and work with it for recovery? | 11:43 |
| zeev | (in order not to damage the phone) | 11:43 |
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| Appiah | dd | 11:44 |
| jacekowski | RobbieThe1st: i think usa version has some limitation on fmtx | 11:44 |
| RobbieThe1st | Huh; perhaps so. The fmtx addon fixes that, though | 11:45 |
| zeev | Appiah: could you, please, provide the full command (I'm not so advanced and a bit nervous :) ) | 11:45 |
| Appiah | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix) check the examples | 11:46 |
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| zeev | does it look ok: dd if=/dev/sdb of=/home/user/diskimage ? | 11:48 |
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| edheldil | zeev: almost. I would add bs=65536 or st. like that | 11:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea. I'd add a "bs=4096" at the end though | 11:49 |
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| zeev | which one :) ? | 11:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | 4096 - 4kb, which is the block size of flash blocks | 11:49 |
| zeev | thanks | 11:49 |
| zeev | let's go... | 11:50 |
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| edheldil | zeev: noooooooooo! | 11:50 |
| edheldil | ;-) | 11:50 |
| RobbieThe1st | 65536 = 16k, or 4 blocks at once. it won't hurt eithher way, but I'm not sure which is faster | 11:51 |
| edheldil | 645536 is actually 64kB | 11:51 |
| zeev | while its working - what should be the next step? | 11:51 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Yea, that sounds right. so what..16 blocks at once. Same diff | 11:52 |
| edheldil | zeev: mount it w/ "sudo mount -o loop file /some/dir" | 11:53 |
| edheldil | replace "file" and "somedir" | 11:53 |
| edheldil | with st. sensible | 11:53 |
| zeev | ok... and testdisk? | 11:53 |
| edheldil | hmmm. maybe do not mount it, actually | 11:53 |
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| zeev | edheldil: so, what's better for testdisk? (its what I have on my distro) | 11:55 |
| edheldil | I do not have testdisk. Look into man how it works | 11:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | "man testdisk" | 11:56 |
| edheldil | either it needs mounted fs (then use the mount above), or a block? device, (then use losetup to create it from a file) | 11:57 |
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| mece | alterego, ping | 11:58 |
| zeev | how long should dd take? | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | depends | 11:59 |
| mece | zee, how big and on what device? | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | on nand, seconds | 11:59 |
| zeev | n900 | 11:59 |
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| zeev | mydocs | 11:59 |
| RobbieThe1st | If it's the 28GB Fat32 disk... you're talking 10mb/sec or so... | 11:59 |
| mece | zeev, 2Gig takes 45 minutes in mydocs. | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | what is and exact command you are using? | 11:59 |
| jacekowski | ehh | 12:00 |
| zeev | dd if=/dev/sdb of=/home/zeev/diskimage bs=4096 | 12:00 |
| jacekowski | what command exactly are you using? | 12:00 |
| mece | zeev, well that's what it took when I did it. | 12:00 |
| mece | how big is sdb? | 12:00 |
| zeev | I don't know - its N900's partition | 12:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | It's the MyDocs partition(right?) so 28GB or so | 12:01 |
| zeev | rigth | 12:01 |
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| zeev | the problem is - when I click on the diskimage file in gnome it shows the same filesize | 12:02 |
| zeev | for a while already | 12:02 |
| zeev | like its not growing | 12:02 |
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| RobbieThe1st | try CDing there and typing "ls -l ./filename" | 12:02 |
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| RobbieThe1st | You can then keep tabs on it with "watch -n 5 ls -l ./filename" - It'll auto update the current size every 5 seconds | 12:03 |
| jacekowski | well, 10-15M/s | 12:03 |
| jacekowski | and you have 28G | 12:03 |
| jacekowski | do the meth | 12:03 |
| jacekowski | math* | 12:03 |
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| zeev | so I can see it growing | 12:03 |
| zeev | thank you! | 12:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | NP | 12:03 |
| jacekowski | you can do killall -USR1 dd | 12:04 |
| jacekowski | and it will make dd print current status | 12:04 |
| zeev | enough time to learn how testdisk works | 12:04 |
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| zeev | just one more question: if I did wrote to the partition after the deletion - how bad is it? is only files that got overwritten are lost - or everything can be lost? | 12:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | I'd do "killall -USR1 `pidof dd`" which -does- work if only one DD instance is running. | 12:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | Only things overwritten | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | zeev: it's hard to know | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | you basically want to stop writing ASAP | 12:05 |
| jacekowski | nope | 12:06 |
| jacekowski | it's not going to work with pidof | 12:06 |
| zeev | I do not write - but the phone is on | 12:06 |
| zeev | I hope it doesn't writes there on its own | 12:06 |
| jacekowski | if you give it pid then you have to use kill | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | zeev: it will do some writes | 12:06 |
| zeev | anyway I can't switch it off - I dd it | 12:07 |
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| RobbieThe1st | jacekowski: Erm... try it yourself. It -does- work | 12:07 |
| zeev | I think I made 2 photos after the deletion which are saved in mydocs... | 12:07 |
| zeev | right? | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | timeless 69041 0.0 0.0 2434896 568 s006 T 12:07PM 0:00.01 man killall | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | timeless-mbp:~ timeless$ killall 69041 | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | No matching processes belonging to you were found | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | it's possible that busybox killall is nice | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | but it certainly isn't a cross platform promise on killall | 12:08 |
| RobbieThe1st | Oh, wait... | 12:08 |
| RobbieThe1st | I meant "kill -USR1 `pidof dd`" | 12:09 |
| timeless_mbp | KILLALL(1) BSD General Commands Manual KILLALL(1) | 12:09 |
| timeless_mbp | killall [-delmsvz] [-help] [-u user] [-t tty] [-c procname] [-SIGNAL] | 12:09 |
| timeless_mbp | [procname ...] | 12:09 |
| jacekowski | RobbieThe1st: it's same thing | 12:09 |
| jacekowski | RobbieThe1st: i mean killall -USR1 dd or kill -USR1 `pidof dd` | 12:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | Oh, ok. | 12:10 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I just tried the latter, and it's working. Which was my point | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: on your busybox system i hope? | 12:11 |
| * timeless_mbp wouldn't trust behaviors from a standard gnu or bsd app to apply on busybox | 12:11 | |
| RobbieThe1st | Nope; on my bash-based Debian desktop | 12:11 |
| RobbieThe1st | He was using a computer too, so it's a fair thing | 12:11 |
| RobbieThe1st | *desktop/laptop, not n900 | 12:11 |
| zeev | is dd's output called raw disk image? (testdisk image.dd to carve a raw disk image) | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | is he using it or is he using his n900? | 12:12 |
| zeev | me? | 12:12 |
| zeev | computer | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | zeev: dd's output is roughly equivalent to dd's input | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | if your input device is a disk, then the output is an image of a disk | 12:12 |
| RobbieThe1st | So, yes, I suppose it would be a raw disk image | 12:12 |
| RobbieThe1st | In the case we are talking about | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | if the input is a file, the output is a file | 12:12 |
| zeev | I mean how is it called (I'm reading the testdisk manual) | 12:12 |
| zeev | http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk:_undelete_file_for_FAT | 12:13 |
| RobbieThe1st | Give me a minute; I've got to install it. | 12:13 |
| zeev | its in debian repo | 12:13 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea. | 12:14 |
| RobbieThe1st | "sudo apt-get install testdisk"... It does take a minute though. | 12:14 |
| RobbieThe1st | Anyway, I'd try "testdisk /home/zeev/diskimage" | 12:14 |
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| mece | Since there are not enough twitter clients I'm thinking on making one for maemo, meego and symbian. Goal being to have it flexible enough to be nice on both handset and netbook. | 12:41 |
| kerio | mece: you mean, like, a browser? | 12:41 |
| RobbieThe1st | Make it with Python, so it's usable like just about everywhere? | 12:41 |
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| mece | kerio, no. | 12:41 |
| mece | RobbieThe1st, qml+qt | 12:42 |
| RobbieThe1st | That could work, I suppose... but running it stock on a Linux desktop would be harder I think. | 12:42 |
| RobbieThe1st | And, I dunno about compiling it for Windows/OSX... | 12:43 |
| mece | RobbieThe1st, well I meant meego netbook. | 12:43 |
| RobbieThe1st | Why limit yourself to that, though? | 12:43 |
| mece | RobbieThe1st, well I wont, but I want to use qml. | 12:43 |
| RobbieThe1st | I mean, if you right true cross-platform code, it'll run on -everything- | 12:43 |
| mece | RobbieThe1st, possibly. We'll see :) | 12:43 |
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| RobbieThe1st | <_< After looking at the language on Wikipedia, I think XML | 12:46 |
| RobbieThe1st | *XUL's better | 12:47 |
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| edheldil | I regret that there's no way to mark some packages as crap on tmo such that it would display when installing the packages on n900 ;-) | 12:49 |
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| lolloo | كيفك | 12:59 |
| lolloo | ايش اخبارك | 12:59 |
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| zeev | RobbieThe1st, and others: thank you very much!!!! I got most (if not all) of my stuff recovered - fotos of my small children from period of several years... Thanks God!... now my wife will not kill me! | 13:06 |
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| thp | zeev: do backups now so that she won't kill you in the future :p | 13:08 |
| zeev | yea... now I will | 13:08 |
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| Firzen | greetings :-) | 13:16 |
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| Firzen | is there anyone who can help me with my problem? (here is the link: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=871939#post871939) | 13:17 |
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| lolloo | does Maemo SDK work on windows? | 13:19 |
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| thp | lolloo: you can use the Nokia Qt SDK, afaik it has madde, so you can build Qt-based maemo apps on windows | 13:21 |
| plr_ | what thp said | 13:21 |
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| lolloo | wow nice, is it newer than the original nokia SDK? | 13:23 |
| thp | lolloo: what do you mean by "original nokia sdk"? scratchbox-based maemo sdk? | 13:23 |
| lolloo | Qt-based is better than Nokia SDK? | 13:24 |
| thp | "better" depends on what you want to do | 13:24 |
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| crashanddie | ~better | 13:25 |
| infobot | i heard better is not always the best route. | 13:25 |
| lolloo | oh man that's a relief, I was struggling to install nokia sdk on ubuntu virtual machine | 13:25 |
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| thp | lolloo: yes, for third party apps that you might want to port to meego/symbian later, Nokia Qt SDK is the way to go. it also comes with a nice IDE :p | 13:26 |
| lolloo | awesome, you saved me alot of time! | 13:26 |
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| Coke | I'm trying to install a certificate in my browser, reading the post it refers to two applications that I do not have "file manager" and "certificate manager". Can do this from a terminal and avoid having to install loads of extra apps just to get the cert into the browser? | 13:34 |
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| Coke | Well, the cert manager is in the settings I guess. | 13:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | correct | 13:37 |
| alterego | yes | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | file manager would be in utilities if you use catorize | 13:37 |
| alterego | and File Manager is installed by default | 13:37 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 13:38 | |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think you can *uninstall* either of them | 13:38 |
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| Coke | It says the cert is expired, check the dates, and I check the dates and im OK with that, but cant continue to install it | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | so | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | certman is kinda annoying | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | check your n900's clock | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | it's generally broken | 13:40 |
| Coke | it IS expired | 13:40 |
| Coke | I don't care. | 13:40 |
| Coke | it works in firefox on the desktop | 13:41 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a commandline you can use to install it | 13:41 |
| timeless_mbp | i complained to the guy who did this a few weeks ago | 13:41 |
| timeless_mbp | this may be fixed in harmattan | 13:41 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a MfE wiki page which talks about how to install a cert from the commandline | 13:41 |
| timeless_mbp | one of the flags (-i? -a?) iirc will let you install it anyway | 13:41 |
| timeless_mbp | (maybe) | 13:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | personally, i wrote a script to move the clock around | 13:41 |
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| Coke | flags to what command? | 13:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/jabber-ssl-fix.deb has the code i was using | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | don't install the deb, but look at how it does work | 13:42 |
| * timeless_mbp has to go to work | 13:42 | |
| timeless_mbp | i /think/ i filed a bug in bugs.maemo.org for this | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | search reporter contains timeless + changed in 2m | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | (don't limit by status/resolution) | 13:43 |
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| Coke | "search reported contains timeless" ? | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | bugs.maemo.org | 13:44 |
| Coke | What is "search reporter" and "timeless" ? | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want to see if i filed a bug | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | go away | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | die | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | die | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | die | 13:45 |
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| Coke | I guess I could generate new certificates that aren't expired. | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | that'd be the smart plan.. | 13:46 |
| Coke | I explicitly told the ssh tools to use 7300 days, but that shit ignored it and just made a year | 13:46 |
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| Termana | good morning | 13:48 |
| Coke | Good afternoon | 13:49 |
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| lolloo | good afternoon | 13:50 |
| Coke | Oh, how does one make a tilde with the N900 keyboard? Can I configure the default terminal to have more keys in the bottom menu? | 13:50 |
| psycho_oreos | 1) shift sym/ctrl 2) maybe with keyboard mod app | 13:51 |
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| thp | Coke: http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard | 13:51 |
| Coke | psycho_oreos: shift + sym + 2 does not produce a tilde | 13:52 |
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| Coke | thp: not really what I want... | 13:52 |
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| Coke | The terminal has ctrl, tab, esc, pgup and pgdown. Can I add my own there? | 13:52 |
| Coke | It's basically only in the terminal I need tilde | 13:52 |
| psycho_oreos | Coke, shift + sym and it'll come up with more keyboard keys on the screen, you just choose the one you want | 13:52 |
| Coke | No. | 13:53 |
| Coke | Maybe I need to install something | 13:53 |
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| thp | Coke: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=660761&postcount=34 | 13:54 |
| Coke | thp: thanks! | 13:55 |
| Coke | But psycho_oreos suggestion sounds even nicer | 13:55 |
| Coke | I always wondered why there's no virtual keyboard in maemo | 13:55 |
| Coke | sometimes I want chars that are not available, would be nice to get that shift + sym thing working | 13:56 |
| thp | Coke: it's [bluekey]+sym if you want that "special char palette" | 13:57 |
| thp | then touch the tilde and press space and it's there | 13:58 |
| thp | (you need the space, because tilde is a dead key that you could theoretically combine with e.g. "a") | 13:58 |
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| Coke | no special char palette | 14:02 |
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| Coke | the char palette comes up in about 1/20 presses on sym+blue arrow to the right | 14:03 |
| Coke | Oh I see. I have to press blue arrow FIRST, then add SYM and finally release | 14:03 |
| Coke | quite akward | 14:03 |
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| alterego | Weird, just restarted my N900 and MyDocs came up read only | 14:07 |
| * alterego restarts again | 14:08 | |
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| BCMM | has anyone else had a problem in which the n900 will not play any audio? | 14:16 |
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| BCMM | no media player, no mplayer, no calls, and not even little interface noises like the window close sound | 14:16 |
| BCMM | also, the volume buttons don't bring up an OSD | 14:16 |
| BCMM | oddly, restarting doesn't fix it; i have to take the battery out | 14:16 |
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| Coke | How come the terminal doesn't save history when I quit it? | 14:18 |
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| Coke | I dont even have a .bash_history any more, yet there are some commands stored in the history I can access, but they are old | 14:19 |
| Coke | It's starting to get annoying having to write the same stuff over and over again now. | 14:19 |
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| andre__ | Coke: "how come"? Software has boogs I have heard :-) | 14:21 |
| Coke | andre__: I think bash has been working for as long as I can remember | 14:22 |
| andre__ | Coke, ? how do you mean? | 14:22 |
| Coke | There's no bug in bash | 14:22 |
| Coke | unless there's a custom patch on it or something weird | 14:23 |
| BCMM | Coke: are you using bash? | 14:23 |
| Coke | good question | 14:23 |
| andre__ | Coke: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5317 | 14:23 |
| povbot | Bug 5317: Shell does not save command history / Busybox doesn't handle SIGHUP properly | 14:23 |
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| Coke | bleh, /bin/sh | 14:23 |
| andre__ | not fixed in Maemo5, fixed in Harmattan, no "me too!" comments please | 14:23 |
| Coke | What a sucky bug | 14:23 |
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| andre__ | plus https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7014 is also annoying | 14:24 |
| povbot | Bug 7014: ash saves only 15 lines of history | 14:24 |
| Coke | The terminal is the only tool I use. | 14:24 |
| Coke | I forgot this shit uses buggybox | 14:24 |
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| edheldil | are these bugs at all? | 14:25 |
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| Coke | Ok, well, my MAIN problem is this: I have a certificate that expires 2019, yet maemo cert manager insist it expires in june 2010. Can I 1) ignore the bug in cert manager or 2) convince it to read the date properly ? | 14:25 |
| timeless_mbp | Coke: file a bug and attach the cert | 14:25 |
| Coke | timeless_mbp: so there's no way of telling the application that I, as a user, don't really care what it thinks? | 14:25 |
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| Coke | The cert expires Nov 21 12:05:26 2020 GMT | 14:27 |
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| Coke | somehow cert manager reads that as june 9 2019 | 14:27 |
| Coke | (for the issuer) | 14:27 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp: useless instruction, please don't tell people to waste time | 14:27 |
| Coke | and june 20 2010 for the client | 14:27 |
| andre__ | filing a bug for platform stuff: as long as it's not something major Nokia won't fix it for Maemo5 | 14:27 |
| alterego | You don't think its' major? | 14:28 |
| edheldil | even if Nokia does not bother to fix it, it's still better to document it, no? | 14:29 |
| Coke | Actually, something is really broken with the cert manager | 14:29 |
| Coke | I dont' know where it looks when I browse N900 | 14:29 |
| Coke | how do I just access my homedir ? | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~messybox | 14:29 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 14:29 |
| Coke | I have 31G free | 14:30 |
| Coke | perhaps they could have used some of that space for some decent utils | 14:30 |
| edheldil | You are lucky to have shell at all, though | 14:31 |
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| Coke | Oh well, guess I have to put it under MyDocs for any apps to use it | 14:32 |
| Coke | So what now? Everybody waiting for the Intel MeeGo to be ported to ARM? | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: I don't think it's a good strategy to quiet people with the rationale "Nokia won't fix it anyway" | 14:33 |
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| Coke | Also, does Nokia have to fix it? Isn't it community driven? | 14:33 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer: I don't want to quiet people at all. I don't want people to waste their time. | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: shut down bugtracker if you don't like to see new tickets | 14:33 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, sounds like a plan. | 14:34 |
| andre__ | I want to see important ones though | 14:34 |
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| andre__ | so not a good plan ;-) | 14:34 |
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| CableTwitch | So, I've had my 2nd phone die on me now XD | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | aha, and who decides about which ones are important? you?? | 14:34 |
| CableTwitch | If you want me to, I can? | 14:35 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, https://bugs.maemo.org/page.cgi?id=fields.html#importance | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 14:35 |
| * CableTwitch declares the red ones to be of the utmost importance. | 14:35 | |
| Coke | Isn't the whole point of open source projects that you don't need Nokia's blessing? | 14:35 |
| andre__ | (though that's the default fields.html. Hmm, a bug.) | 14:36 |
| CableTwitch | This may or may not be a good thing to ask, but I'm getting dribbly results from the official source... is there a community torrent of the PR1.3 firmware? | 14:36 |
| Coke | In any case, is it confirmed that meego will be the next thing? If not, Maemo will need more support. | 14:36 |
| CableTwitch | Also, what does it mean when the LED does sod all when you power up, the device sits on the Nokia logo for about 30 seconds, then the screen powers down ever-so-slowly? | 14:37 |
| CableTwitch | I seem to have a knack for making things not work no more. | 14:37 |
| Coke | sounds like your phone is broken | 14:38 |
| Coke | Never had that happen to me | 14:38 |
| CableTwitch | Its possible, as its a wonderful refurb. | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | charge battery? | 14:38 |
| CableTwitch | I broke the USB connector out of the first one, and Vodafone gave me a lovely replacement, and said mine couldnt be fixed. | 14:38 |
| CableTwitch | Funny, they sent it to Nokia too. | 14:38 |
| CableTwitch | Doc: Battery is fully charged. | 14:38 |
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| Coke | Ive had my for, hm, almost a year, been on the last 86 days without restart so I would have to test. | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | CableTwitch: actually looks like hw problem. Can you take a video and post | 14:39 |
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| CableTwitch | The funny thing is this... I was using it on wifi only while in the states, when, after reading an email, it decided to freeze up on me. Nothing out of the ordinary, as the firmware wasnt even PR1.2 at this point. So I restarted it... and it never woke up beyond the above description. | 14:39 |
| CableTwitch | I can do, doc. | 14:40 |
| Coke | andre__: so what's gonna happen? No more updates? | 14:40 |
| andre__ | Coke: Huh? I didn't say that | 14:40 |
| Coke | No, I'm asking | 14:40 |
| andre__ | Well, ask Nokia... | 14:40 |
| CableTwitch | the only downside is that I'm not linux expert (not even technically a user), so probing the internals from a linux desktop is A) Beyond me, and B) I dont run linux anyway. | 14:40 |
| Coke | andre__: I thought they didn't run that show | 14:40 |
| CableTwitch | I DID manage to update it to PR1.3, it would appear, but no joy. | 14:41 |
| Coke | CableTwitch: it's a joyless world | 14:41 |
| CableTwitch | Going to try one last go with the eMMC as well, and if that doesnt work, another trip to the Voda store... | 14:41 |
| CableTwitch | Heres another funny thing... | 14:41 |
| andre__ | Coke: official Maemo5 releases? Yes, that's Nokia's area. | 14:41 |
| CableTwitch | Plug it into the power, or the USB lead without activating the upload mode, and the device powers on, and tries to boot. | 14:42 |
| Coke | andre__: don't really care if they are official. i run the extra and dev repos as well | 14:42 |
| CableTwitch | It has gotten as far as the flashing dots a few times, but no further. | 14:42 |
| andre__ | Coke, that's a completely different topic | 14:42 |
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| CableTwitch | So, now I'm DLing the 1.3 release again, in order to do the flash+emmc. | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | CableTwitch: sounds like weak battery | 14:42 |
| MohammadAG | CableTwitch, backup your mmc and flash it | 14:42 |
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| CableTwitch | Downloading at 18k/s... :O( | 14:43 |
| CableTwitch | Doc: Does it from the mains as well. | 14:43 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, or a broken eMMC, thus opitfication fails and therefore, bootup goes into an infinite loop | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | CableTwitch: there's no "from mains" | 14:43 |
| CableTwitch | Now... does anyone know of a faster location to get the 1.3 release, bar nokias pitifully slow site? | 14:43 |
| CableTwitch | Doc: Oh goody. | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: as well possible | 14:44 |
| Coke | thanks | 14:44 |
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| MohammadAG | CableTwitch, their site gives me good speeds | 14:44 |
| CableTwitch | Ahh, yes. One more thing... I did have it showing a solid yellow LED at points, which I belive is when the battery is below 3.7v? | 14:44 |
| MohammadAG | and no, at least not legally | 14:44 |
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| MohammadAG | or when bme fails to start and battery is low | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: or wrong flashing sequence, with a boot in between | 14:45 |
| CableTwitch | Hmm. You'd think maemo.org might host a torrent of it, for easy access. Or do nokia not like the idea of that? | 14:45 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yep | 14:45 |
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| CableTwitch | The battery appeared to charge fine after a while, and ened the charge cycle on a green LED, but still no joy. | 14:45 |
| MohammadAG | CableTwitch, only nokia can host the image | 14:45 |
| MohammadAG | torrents mean others will be uploading | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | CableTwitch: odd. reflash | 14:46 |
| CableTwitch | Bum. I'd better go shout at VM then | 14:46 |
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| CableTwitch | Doc: The unit died BEFORE I flashed it, which was odd. It just seemed to kill itself. | 14:46 |
| CableTwitch | Crashed, restarted, and went into alzheimers boot-loop | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, that's a clear "perster seller" | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | pester even | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | CableTwitch: unless you unstalled power kernel, or mobile hotspot | 14:47 |
| CableTwitch | Yaya, 15.4MB done so far, only 2 hours 46 to go... | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | installed (damn I miss my coffee) | 14:48 |
| CableTwitch | Doc: The unit was untouched, apart from installing previous software that I had on it before. | 14:48 |
| CableTwitch | Some software didnt install, due to it being the wrong PR | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | CableTwitch: unless you unstalled power kernel, or mobile hotspot | 14:48 |
| CableTwitch | And waaaaaaait a minute.... | 14:48 |
| CableTwitch | I dont use power kernel or mobile hotspot. | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, k | 14:49 |
| CableTwitch | I DID manage to get WifiEye installed, although it wouldnt run. I wonder if that threw something into the works? | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway try reflashing | 14:49 |
| CableTwitch | I shall. | 14:49 |
| CableTwitch | I hope to hell its not hardware related. I really dont want to wait for another unit again XD | 14:49 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I doubt it; probably a dumb eMMC/optfs issue. | 14:50 |
| CableTwitch | The sad thing about the first one is that shortly after sending it off, I realised my local hackspace has an SMC hot-air rework station. I could have replaced the bloody USB port myself... *cries* | 14:50 |
| * MohammadAG hates hardware problems | 14:50 | |
| CableTwitch | Does the eMMC have moments where it corrupts itself then? | 14:51 |
| CableTwitch | Or something else might cause it to go a bit loopy? | 14:51 |
| RobbieThe1st | It did on me, once. Still not sure why | 14:51 |
| CableTwitch | For all I know, it might have been cosmic radiation. | 14:51 |
| CableTwitch | Which would figure, oddly. I WAS pretty much on the equator... direct hit, mental firmware ahoy! | 14:52 |
| RobbieThe1st | Literally out of the blue, the Optfs corrupted and it wouldn't boot. After diagnosing the problem, I restored an optfs backup image(thanks to my own software) and that solved the problem | 14:52 |
| CableTwitch | Something else... it wouldnt pick up GPS that day either. Nothing above me, I had the relevant map installed, and it wouldnt find anything. | 14:52 |
| RobbieThe1st | Who knows. | 14:52 |
| CableTwitch | Robbie: I've seen your posts, and I might be tempted to see how you did that. | 14:52 |
| CableTwitch | IF this attempt fails miserably. But like I said earlier, if it involves a linux desktop, I'm a bit fubar. | 14:53 |
| CableTwitch | however, its going to take me a good 3 hours or so to get to that point, courtesy of something playing silly buggers with my net speed. | 14:53 |
| RobbieThe1st | It's all GPL licensed shell-script. And, the benefit of my setup is it -doesn't- require a PC for -most- stuff. | 14:53 |
| CableTwitch | How does it work then? | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | CableTwitch: there've been bootloops because of SIM with odd contact or SMS data on it | 14:54 |
| CableTwitch | Mr Device doesnt boot, so it needs something external to cause it to play nice. | 14:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | try booting without SIM and without uSD | 14:54 |
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| CableTwitch | Doc: No SMS or contacts added after I arrived in the US. I was there for 3 weeks, it dies on the 2nd to last day. | 14:55 |
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| CableTwitch | Oh, and I've tried removing everything, no dice. | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 14:55 |
| CableTwitch | At this point, I might place it in a pyramid and sacrafice a black lamb to the gods in order to make it better. | 14:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | Bootmenu-n900 starts a script right at the beginning of the boot process if the keyboard is open. My script runs right there, makes a ramdisk, and chroots into it - From there, backing up or restoring stuff to the rootfs/optfs/whatever is easy, because it's not being accessed | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't help :-P | 14:56 |
| CableTwitch | Which, my method or his script? | 14:56 |
| CableTwitch | Robbie: I take it you place that on the SD card? | 14:56 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, it won't help -this- problem currently. I mean... you've got to install it first. | 14:56 |
| MohammadAG | both :P | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: chroot or pivotroot | 14:57 |
| CableTwitch | Ahhh, its a pre-disaster recovery doohicky. | 14:57 |
| CableTwitch | Oh, you son of a bitch... one second | 14:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | Actually, I keep all I need(around ~100kb) on the rootfs. I generate the ramdisk on-the-fly from maemo files. And I use chroot. | 14:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | Why? | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | chroot isn't the right thing for leaving real root alone | 14:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you'll need pivotroot for this | 14:58 |
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| RobbieThe1st | What happens? I mean... I was able to umount the ubifs, so I -assume- things work OK...? | 14:58 |
| CableTwitch | Goddamnit, stupid bloody switch went mental, which would account for the crappy download speeds. | 14:59 |
| CableTwitch | There we go... 1.9MB/s... better now | 14:59 |
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| CableTwitch | 10 seconds till its done XD | 15:00 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 15:00 |
| CableTwitch | Its many, many years old, and it sometimes loses the plot. You can tell when its gone mental because the traffic lights flash constantly. | 15:01 |
| CableTwitch | Its old, but its mostly reliable, and it was only a tenner. | 15:01 |
| CableTwitch | Soooo. thats the eMMC and the PR1.3 done | 15:01 |
| CableTwitch | Time to flash... | 15:01 |
| CableTwitch | A question... better to go for the global PR1.3, or whack the UK PR1.2 on it? | 15:02 |
| RobbieThe1st | 1.3 | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | global | 15:02 |
| CableTwitch | Right | 15:02 |
| BCMM | i'm still not sure what hte point of UK releases is | 15:03 |
| BCMM | they all support UK english | 15:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm; near as I can figure, chroot will work in my case due to it being the init thread I'm running on; and the fact that it -can- unmount the old rootfs, so it's working right anyway. I'll look at pivotroot later, though. | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | pivot_root used to switch e.g. from initrd to real rootfs | 15:04 |
| CableTwitch | Right, lets flash this bastard... | 15:04 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, be that as it may, it still -works-, for whatever reason. So, no reason to panic, I don't think. | 15:05 |
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| RobbieThe1st | And if it didn't work right(not able to umount rootfs), it would give an error, so that should be good enough until I can figure out pivot_root. | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: yes, usually you backup systems in init S state, not even in chroot. I guess it's ok | 15:05 |
| kerio | http://www.linux.fm/ O.o | 15:06 |
| kerio | that's brilliant | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | just saying chroot isn't the right tool | 15:06 |
| CableTwitch | At least it flashes. | 15:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm, I'm curious - is there a page detailing the n900's boot sequence compared to a "desktop" distro's boot sequence? | 15:07 |
| RobbieThe1st | I know there are some difference | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, alas not | 15:07 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I'm going to have to look into that at some point... Anyway, I'm off now. | 15:08 |
| CableTwitch | Oh hell no.... | 15:08 |
| CableTwitch | The stupid thing tried to reboot. | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | omit -R !! | 15:08 |
| RobbieThe1st | remove the "-R". | 15:08 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 15:08 |
| CableTwitch | I DID | 15:08 |
| RobbieThe1st | Oh, and for anyone who cares: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 15:08 |
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| CableTwitch | Its stalled on the Nokai screen again... | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait | 15:09 |
| CableTwitch | I wonder... if I power it down, and reattach it to the PC in install mode... can we recover this... | 15:09 |
| alterego | Anyone know a good program for Linux that allows you to view NMEA logs? | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | first boot can take minutes | 15:09 |
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| CableTwitch | I'm waiting, but its just sitting at the dim nokia logo, like its in upload mode. But no USB symbol. | 15:10 |
| CableTwitch | I havent done the eMMC though | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | CableTwitch: we recover everything, we are linux :-P | 15:10 |
| CableTwitch | Oh, dots? | 15:10 |
| CableTwitch | Aaaand it freezes on the 2nd dot. Again. | 15:10 |
| CableTwitch | I shall wait, however. | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | LED? | 15:11 |
| CableTwitch | Uh, huh | 15:11 |
| CableTwitch | Bright Nokia screen... | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | was it amber solid while dim NOKIA? | 15:11 |
| CableTwitch | Oh, and its now in its reboot loop. Great. | 15:11 |
| CableTwitch | No, no LED. | 15:11 |
| CableTwitch | At this point, I'm no further forward or back than the last time. | 15:12 |
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| CableTwitch | I can TRY and do the eMMC now, if thats likely to make any difference? | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | you flashed COMBINED? | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1.3? | 15:12 |
| CableTwitch | I flashed PR1.3 global. | 15:12 |
| CableTwitch | Combined, yes | 15:12 |
| CableTwitch | Using the latest release, both the PR and the eMMC | 15:13 |
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| CableTwitch | Well, I would be using the latest eMMC, but it never quite got that far | 15:13 |
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| CableTwitch | The hell? | 15:13 |
| CableTwitch | Oh, thats gotta be bad. | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | so now try flash VANILLA first, without -R. remove battery when flashing finished. then flash COMBINED again, by sequence "flasher; plug; hold u; insert bat" | 15:13 |
| CableTwitch | Well, it appears during one of its boot cycles, it decided to update the eMMC. I forgot it was still waiting to do so. | 15:14 |
| CableTwitch | Ok, I'll wait for it to power down. | 15:14 |
| CableTwitch | The boot cycle keeps repeating when its plugged into power/USB, but when disconnected, it just loses all interest and fades out. | 15:15 |
| CableTwitch | I have no control over when it decides to restart, however. | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds quite like fried hw | 15:16 |
| CableTwitch | right, update mode enabled, its sitting happily. | 15:16 |
| CableTwitch | Updating the eMMC without the -R | 15:16 |
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| CableTwitch | Aaaand no suitable device found. | 15:16 |
| CableTwitch | Aaand now its in reboot loop hell again. | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | make *sure* you don't accidentally boot after that | 15:16 |
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| CableTwitch | At this point, I'm going to have to make sure I dont throw it out of the window. | 15:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no, you have to make sure battery is completely charged. Alas that's impossible with only a bootlooping deice | 15:17 |
| CableTwitch | It DOES eventually charge the battery | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | no it DOES NOT | 15:18 |
| CableTwitch | It goes solid yellow for a while, then pulsing in charge mode, then solid green when its done. | 15:18 |
| CableTwitch | So basically, I have a device that cannot charge its battery? | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | so this is a "completely booted" system that does this | 15:18 |
| CableTwitch | I think it gives up after a while. | 15:19 |
| CableTwitch | I know I'm getting that way | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | green LED means bme is running, means linux proper is running | 15:19 |
| CableTwitch | Huh, so eventually it MUST boot. | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | the state is called acting_dead | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and is similar to a init 2 | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | on a usual system - well kinda | 15:20 |
| CableTwitch | Battery voltage reads 3.98, so it must be charging. | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's ok | 15:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and eMMC flahing inadvertedly rebooted? | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | even without -R? | 15:21 |
| CableTwitch | Thats the odd thing. If I try to do the eMMC, it cant find the device, even though its in upload mode. | 15:21 |
| CableTwitch | However, the device apparently got flashed with it during one of its reboots. | 15:22 |
| CableTwitch | Hmm. | 15:22 |
| CableTwitch | I get a brief yellow LED if I plug the data cable in with no battery | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevermind | 15:22 |
| CableTwitch | And as soon as I put the battery in with the cable attached, the device powers up and tried to boot. Only, with no backlight. | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Some people have experienced emmc hardware failures. | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | you hold 'u' while it does that | 15:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | start flasher, hold 'u', plug in, hold 'u', insert battery, still hold 'u' | 15:24 |
| CableTwitch | Ok, it connects to the PC fine when I hold U, and I can flash the FIASCO fine. But if I try and do the eMMC, it cant find the device. | 15:24 |
| CableTwitch | start flasher, as in get it waiting? | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's incorrect | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 15:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | finding device is unrelated to what you want to flash | 15:25 |
| CableTwitch | Its updating, excellent | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | when it's finished, remove battery, unplug | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | repeat with COMBINED | 15:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as in | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | start flasher, hold 'u', plug in, hold 'u', insert battery, still hold 'u' | 15:27 |
| CableTwitch | With or without -R? | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's irrelevant for second flashing | 15:27 |
| CableTwitch | Ok | 15:27 |
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| CableTwitch | Its flashing | 15:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | with -R it shall try to boot your new system after flashing of COMBINED finished | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | without, you have to do that | 15:28 |
| CableTwitch | Well, fingers crossed | 15:28 |
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| CableTwitch | Ok, done. Pull battery now? | 15:29 |
| CableTwitch | Need to restart it. | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you had no -R then yes | 15:29 |
| CableTwitch | Still no power-on LED... thats not good. | 15:30 |
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| CableTwitch | No-go. I think we're looking at dead hardware. | 15:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes. sorry for you | 15:31 |
| CableTwitch | The Nokia logo comes on, bright screen... hangs for about 15 seconds, then the backlight goes out, the logo fades to nothing, wiuth a few stripes... | 15:31 |
| CableTwitch | Oh well. Off to the voda store I go! (Again) | 15:31 |
| CableTwitch | Luckily, nothing of value apart from some random notes were lost. | 15:31 |
| CableTwitch | I shall return anon! | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the first boot takes quite some time. it's dark screen during some 10 seconds | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't power device down then | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but fading screen quite looks like borked hw | 15:33 |
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| Kaadlajk | can fremantle flasher flash fiasco and emmc image at the same time (flasher -F fiasco.bin -F emmc.bin -f)? | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | not afaik | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | but would be both reasonable and cool | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe nobody ever tried | 15:34 |
| Kaadlajk | that works with harmattan flasher | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | harmattan flasher o.O | 15:35 |
| Kaadlajk | atleast flasher help states that -f should "load and flash all supplied images" | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you flash harmattan on a fremantle device - will you need fremantle or harmattan flasher for that? | 15:36 |
| Kaadlajk | no comment | 15:37 |
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| Kaadlajk | fremantle flasher does not have the nice howto feature that tells you how to do stuff | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | it comes with README though | 15:39 |
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| Kaadlajk | too bad i dont have device to test flashing fiasco and emmc at the same time, dont wanna flash my own n900 :P | 15:42 |
| RST38h | Moo all | 15:42 |
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| RST38h | Doc: What is this harmattan talk about? | 15:42 |
| RST38h | Is it what I think it is? | 15:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: good question | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: just read last 4 posts of Kaadlajk | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't know more than that either | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | 5 actually | 15:44 |
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| RST38h | Doc: There are probably black helicopters heading for his location right now | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 15:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Kaadlajk: (dont wanna flash my own n900 :P) sissi :-P | 15:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jr@halley:~> /home/jr/Documents/N900/maemo5.0-flashing/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.4.5.3_beta/flasher-3.5 -F /home/jr/Documents/N900/maemo5.0-flashing/images/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -F /home/jr/Documents/N900/maemo5.0-flashing/images/RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | flasher v2.4.5 (Jun 25 2009) | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Image 'mmc', size 262089728 bytes | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Version RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Specify only one FIASCO image. | 15:50 |
| Kaadlajk | :-( | 15:51 |
| phellarv | for-loop then ;-P | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't work as flasher doesn't know how to resume after a flashing without -R | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems NOLO needs a new connect and bootup to start another flashing session | 15:52 |
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| plr_ | does anyone know what needs to be restarted if the messaging stops working? every once in a while when looking at the SMS conversations, the conversation is not shown and if a new message is sent, the status is not updated (although it seems that the message is sent in the background) | 15:54 |
| plr_ | restart repairs it, but I was wondering if there is a service that could just be restarted from the xterm.. | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably there is but that's rather obscure (at least to me) | 15:55 |
| alterego | I need something to validate my NMEA data :/ | 15:56 |
| alterego | Can't be bothered to write my own :( | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: I bet there are official tools for that, probably written in pearl | 15:58 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders if wlan roaming is supposed to work if you just set two APs to same ssid | 16:00 | |
| ShadowJK | It 'kinda' works already when they have different ssid, except that browser and stuff iss told by maemo to disconnect | 16:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yes, afaik thats how multi-AP wlan handover is supposed to be configured and work. Probably the APs need to support that, by sharing credentials/dhcp etc | 16:06 |
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| * crashanddie just made Product Manager | 16:18 | |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 16:18 |
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| Venemo_N900 | khertan_: ping | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: Promotion or ... ? :) | 16:25 |
| crashanddie | looks like it | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | Congrats, so no coder anymore? | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | after just 3-4 months in the company. i think this is my fastest promotion yet. not official yet though, have to work out what'll happen in the next 10 days | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | well, i'm guessing i'll be wearing a dual hat. PM at some times, dev at others | 16:27 |
| X-Fade | Now we only need to find out if that says something about you or about the company :D | 16:27 |
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| crashanddie | maybe they're really desperate and I'm a really good poser? | 16:28 |
| X-Fade | From your POV that doesn't matter. | 16:28 |
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| Venemo_N900 | hm... installing stuff from SDK repo takes lots of rootfs space :( | 16:31 |
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| crashanddie | "A small but significant slip of the tongue had Canada's industry minister pleading for "more Canadian sex stories" on Monday, although he quickly insisted he was actually talking about success." | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: it does, a lil bit. As when they are desparate they are likely to expect the impossible | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 16:35 |
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| crashanddie | "Teased by reporters about the slip, Clement insisted he had not been thinking about sex. "The male brain is a very strange organ at times, isn't it? I have no explanation," he said." | 16:35 |
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| crashanddie | interesting choice of words... "organ" | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, what else? | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole statement "strange organ" is bewildering. I'd more put it like "the male brain sometimes works in strange obscure ways" | 16:37 |
| pupnik_ | he was distancing himself from responsibility | 16:38 |
| pupnik_ | "it wasn't me, it was my organ" | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 16:39 |
| Venemo_N900 | is there actually no way to select text in microb? | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | look, this is me, and that over there is my brain XP | 16:39 |
| alterego | Venemo_N900: swipe from left to right at the left side of the screen and press the button that appears | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I usually tend to claim me==my-brain, and maybe would s/brain/body" in above sentence | 16:40 |
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| Venemo_N900 | alterego: oh, crap... I meant modest | 16:41 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:41 |
| Venemo_N900 | ~seen khertan_ | 16:41 |
| infobot | khertan_ is currently on #maemo (7h 32m 18s) #meego (7h 32m 18s), last said: 'i must go on ... going to office. Bye'. | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | in modest, seems no | 16:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | that's what I thought | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | modest is so... modest | 16:42 |
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| Venemo_N900 | ~seen Khertan | 16:42 |
| infobot | khertan <~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-95-72.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15d 6h 29m 54s ago, saying: 'oups wrong windows'. | 16:42 |
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| crashanddie | Venemo_N900, twitter him | 16:50 |
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| Venemo_N900 | I don't use twitter | 16:52 |
| Venemo_N900 | I have an account, but have not used it ever and dnno how to :D | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with khertan_ ? | 16:53 |
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| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: he is not here. | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 16:53 |
| Venemo_N900 | or he just refuses to answer | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | last said: 'i must go on ... going to office. Bye'. | 16:54 |
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| Venemo_N900 | oh, yeah | 16:54 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, "shit" is the word you're looking for. | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dict modest | 16:55 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'modest' (2 of 10): free from pomp or affectation; "comfortable but modest cottages"; "a simple rectangular brick building"; "a simple man with simple tastes" ;; not large but sufficient in size or amount; "a modest salary"; "modest inflation"; "helped in my own small way" . | 16:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~modest is now known as shit | 16:57 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: please, watch your language. | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeek | 16:57 |
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| nidO | busted | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | *modest is now known as shit | 16:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~modest | 16:57 |
| nidO | pupnik: your stuff arrive yet? | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 16:57 |
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| GAN900 | ~modest is shit | 16:58 |
| infobot | GAN900: please, watch your language. | 16:58 |
| alterego | Well, at least one program seems to understand my NMEA stuff. | 16:58 |
| GAN900 | ~modest is s h i t | 16:58 |
| infobot | okay, GAN900 | 16:58 |
| Venemo_N900 | hehe | 16:58 |
| alterego | But everything accepts serial and I'm streaming over TCP :/ | 16:58 |
| Venemo_N900 | I'll disconnect from the uni's wifi | 16:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | socat FTW | 16:58 |
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| Venemo_N900 | so goodbye guys | 16:58 |
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| lolloo | where is he going? | 16:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: though honestly a program that expects NMEA via /dev/tty* is thoroughly fubar and needs some patching | 17:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: socat + pty should do the trick, no? | 17:02 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: trying now | 17:03 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: looks like it works :D | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 17:03 |
| * DocScrutinizer puts on hanibal hat: "I love it when a plan works" | 17:04 | |
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| pupnik | nidO: when was it sent? | 17:05 |
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| alterego | Anyone got any reocmmendations for a desktop GPS ui that displays most info? | 17:05 |
| nidO | pupnik: havent spoken to my sis in law since she got back but she flew back thursday, would assume she prolly got to the post office at the weekend | 17:05 |
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| lcuk | alterego, its rare that desktops focus on gps apps :P | 17:06 |
| lcuk | since you know where they are and the machines are usually indoors anyway | 17:06 |
| edheldil | alterego: gpsd? :) | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: more and more laptops cme with GPS built in | 17:06 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I know this ;) | 17:07 |
| CableTwitch | Well, I convinced the guy at the Voda store it was FUBAR. | 17:07 |
| lcuk | he asked about desktops tho :P | 17:07 |
| edheldil | I used to have gps connected with bluetooth | 17:07 |
| CableTwitch | Powered it up, showed him the process, explained politely that no, he didnt actually need to get the laptop to update the software as I'd already tried it, and voila... I'll get a new one in a few days time. | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, why not let him try update? | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | then go "thanks for confirming my findings" | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | is it possible to desolder the N900's RAM and solder 512MBs? | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you find a proper matching POP lice | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | slicew | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | without size issues? | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | well, Beagleboard? | 17:10 |
| CableTwitch | Depends on how much memory the controller in the A8 can handle. | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | you may swap the whole SoC | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | it can handle 512, sure of that | 17:10 |
| CableTwitch | Go for it. Then take pictures of the incinerated motherboard as a warning for others not to try it. | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;.P | 17:11 |
| CableTwitch | You'd ideally need a hot-air rework station, unless they're BGA? | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure BGA | 17:11 |
| edheldil | alterego: are you trying to find out whether those contrail at nevada coast were indeed Chinese rocket? ;-) GPS signal supposedly carries information on detected ballistic missile launches ... | 17:11 |
| CableTwitch | I never really looked at the RAM when I was poking the internals. | 17:11 |
| alterego | Hahah | 17:11 |
| alterego | gpsman seems to be happy .. | 17:11 |
| alterego | This makes me want to port Columbus to the desktop though | 17:12 |
| alterego | And I've already made provisions to do so. | 17:12 |
| pupnik | nidO: thanks i'll check the mailbox for a note | 17:12 |
| alterego | I wanted to have the app running on my laptop and my N900 and them both showing the same data from my N900s GPS :D | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell! whenever I hear/read *man, I think 'fap*' | 17:13 |
| edheldil | alterego: do you know QLandkarte (GT/M/...) | 17:13 |
| alterego | Nope | 17:13 |
| chem|st | alterego: that has a brainstrom item | 17:13 |
| edheldil | it's similar to garmin's mapsource. Not gps debugging tool, though | 17:13 |
| chem|st | alterego: or kind of | 17:13 |
| alterego | chem|st: what does? | 17:13 |
| timeless_mbp | hey, anyone here familiar w/ using ms office communicator from an n900? | 17:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | i have the butterfly msn protocol installed | 17:14 |
| chem|st | alterego: exporting the GPS-data to a client | 17:14 |
| timeless_mbp | but i can't figure out if that's what i'm supposed to use | 17:14 |
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| alterego | chem|st: my app does it :) Via UDP unicast or TCP client or server configurations, as well as bluetooth | 17:14 |
| chem|st | alterego: people were like "oh that's so simple to do" but noone ever put a hand on it | 17:15 |
| juhjokel | timeless_mbp: Windows Mobile 7, if you ask Microsoft :-) | 17:15 |
| alterego | chem|st: live streaming of NMEA telemetry that is. | 17:15 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks | 17:15 |
| chem|st | alterego: exactly | 17:15 |
| timeless_mbp | does it install on n900s? | 17:15 |
| * timeless_mbp would try it | 17:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: soldering SoC in proper machinery on a prototype number of board gave us 60% yield | 17:15 |
| alterego | timeless_mbp: yes, it's written for N900, but I'm going to sell it sorry :( | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: so have fun with doing that by hand | 17:15 |
| chem|st | alterego: does it bundle as GPS-mouse via bt or so? | 17:15 |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: how much? | 17:15 |
| alterego | chem|st: yeah | 17:15 |
| alterego | timeless_mbp: not decided yet, probably 3 or 4 euro | 17:16 |
| chem|st | alterego: so it does not nead a special program but any gps-aware program?! | 17:16 |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: do you take paypal? | 17:16 |
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| * timeless_mbp wants it w/in the next 30mins | 17:16 | |
| alterego | timeless_mbp: that will be the prefered payment method yes, wait for my 1.0 release, should be within the next week. | 17:16 |
| alterego | Hahah | 17:16 |
| * jacekowski makes a phone call to inland revenue | 17:16 | |
| alterego | bluetooth is a bit glitchy at the moment. | 17:17 |
| timeless_mbp | Bluetooth? | 17:17 |
| alterego | I'm ironing out the creases. | 17:17 |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: all i want is ms office communicator support | 17:17 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't need bluetooth .. i think | 17:17 |
| alterego | timeless_mbp: it exports a bluetooth serial port too, so you can use it as a bluetooth GPS | 17:17 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: what is it? | 17:17 |
| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Lync i guess? | 17:17 |
| jacekowski | hmm, microsoft IM? | 17:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: please tell me how your OVI enterprise will turn out, once it's settled | 17:18 |
| alterego | chem|st: that's the idea. It has a UI similar to handheld GPS' and added logging/streaming capabilities. | 17:19 |
| alterego | trip statistics and so on. | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: also I'd happily discuss IMEI lock schemes with you | 17:19 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer: yeah, I'll be wanting to work on that once this is done. | 17:20 |
| jacekowski | and i'll happily create keygens/cracks for them | 17:20 |
| alterego | jacekowski: wont work like that, it's a device lock. | 17:20 |
| alterego | So I'll distribute a unique package for a specific N900 | 17:20 |
| chem|st | alterego: do you mind to strap down to a streamer-only for extras some day? | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: exactly | 17:21 |
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| jacekowski | alterego: there is always way around it | 17:21 |
| jacekowski | alterego: like global LD_PRELOAD | 17:21 |
| jacekowski | alterego: and lib faking imei | 17:21 |
| alterego | jacekowski: no dount, nothing is 100% foolproof. | 17:21 |
| alterego | But that's not the point. | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: there's concepts to sour the milk for jacekowski | 17:21 |
| alterego | ~doubt | 17:21 |
| infobot | well, doubt is When in doubt, cafuego is always right. | 17:21 |
| chem|st | alterego: that will piss off all people who get a replacement device | 17:22 |
| GAN900 | alterego, why bother with the lock? | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: not more than with paid mp3 downloads | 17:22 |
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| alterego | chem|st: obviously I'm happy to distribute new versions for people that have replacements etc. | 17:23 |
| GAN900 | Seems like it'd be less obnoxious to take to small piracy hit and just rely on most people's good nature. | 17:23 |
| chem|st | alterego: sure | 17:23 |
| GAN900 | Through Ovi? | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: because there's jacekowski threating it | 17:23 |
| CableTwitch | Nothing is 100% foolproof. I'm the fool that manages to break it regardless. | 17:23 |
| alterego | GAN900: because I'm jobless and need the money :P | 17:23 |
| alterego | And Ovi takes 40% | 17:23 |
| gn00b | i'm beginning to think that this phone (n900) is beyond me | 17:23 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, so, what about the people who now wont buy it because of the protection scheme? | 17:24 |
| crashanddie | alterego, then get a job you useless bum | 17:24 |
| alterego | GAN900: Like you? | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: who cares about those? | 17:24 |
| GAN900 | Frankly, I think that impact really ind of negates the likelihood of pirates largely affecting sales. | 17:24 |
| * GAN900 shrugs | 17:24 | |
| chem|st | alterego: so columbus will be released soon, but it is the garminGPS like only yet? what about the offline-navigation solution you talked about? | 17:24 |
| GAN900 | Other things aside, DRM-type stuff generally turns me off of software. | 17:25 |
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| alterego | chem|st: I am working on a playback feature, which allows you to run through logged data, is that what you mean? | 17:26 |
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| alterego | chem|st: it only uses the internet if you tell it to stream over it, and AGPS | 17:26 |
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| chem|st | alterego: wasn't you then asking few days ago for a offline-routing software source | 17:26 |
| alterego | No, that was someone else :P | 17:26 |
| Venemo_N900 | guys, I'm a noob | 17:26 |
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| Venemo_N900 | I made a c hello world | 17:27 |
| kerio | awsum | 17:27 |
| CableTwitch | Now make a C Spot Run. | 17:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | I did 'gcc first.c -o myfirst' | 17:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | then 'chmod +x myfirst' | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: there's always a huge number of hobby pirates, so if you want to earn money from a relatively expensive lower target user base app, you need proper protection | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | of any kind | 17:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | then './myfirst' said permision denied | 17:27 |
| kerio | Venemo_N900: mydocs? | 17:28 |
| Venemo_N900 | all this on the N900 | 17:28 |
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| Venemo_N900 | kerio: yeah | 17:28 |
| kerio | vfat sucks | 17:28 |
| Venemo_N900 | oh crap | 17:28 |
| GAN900 | I'm not sure most of those people are likely to pay if you do. | 17:28 |
| kerio | it's also mounted noexec, afaik | 17:28 |
| Venemo_N900 | you are right kerio | 17:28 |
| kerio | yes, i am | 17:28 |
| Venemo_N900 | kerute: thx | 17:28 |
| Venemo_N900 | kerio: thx | 17:28 |
| chem|st | alterego: but thats then a $1 item?! or how much will it be? | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: who gives a fuck about people that won't pay either way? | 17:28 |
| alterego | chem|st: like I said, 3 or 4 euros most likely. | 17:29 |
| chem|st | alterego: ah over read that | 17:29 |
| alterego | Normal mobile rip off prices. | 17:29 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, point being, I don't think the protection is likely to increase the number of paying people very much. | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: my experience is different | 17:30 |
| chem|st | alterego: well I know about a few guys who funded a startup with a realy good 1eur app, have now 4 employees... | 17:30 |
| alterego | GAN900: probably not, we'll see :P | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: a lot of peple won't pay if there's a pirated version on torrent, that has same functionality | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: you can't stop the pirated version, see jacekowski - but there are methods to make it less attractive to users | 17:32 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: you will get more money out of it if open-source and a donation drive or high-level protection compared to torrented | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: tell me about one donation driven FOSS project | 17:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | my reposts vary from "nothing in years" to "$80.50 after 6 months" | 17:34 |
| alterego | chem|st: donations don't work tbh .. | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | reports | 17:34 |
| chem|st | alterego: no they don't | 17:34 |
| alterego | I've had 0 donations for my crappy app in extras :) | 17:34 |
| crashanddie | alterego, purchases does, however | 17:34 |
| crashanddie | alterego, without the need for DRM | 17:35 |
| alterego | crashanddie: exactly :) | 17:35 |
| alterego | I'm not using DRM | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's a simple activation scheme | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | which will need additional unrelated measures to take full effect | 17:35 |
| crashanddie | alterego, in my previous company, all the products, most of whom were sold for an average contract price of 800k USD didn't have any license keys or rights management | 17:35 |
| alterego | Seriously though, it's not like I'm going to be unreasonible, I'm not saying 1 copy per N900. | 17:35 |
| alterego | I'll give a user as many copies as they have N900s | 17:36 |
| alterego | It's just an insurance policy. | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: that's business grade contracts - a completely different domain | 17:36 |
| crashanddie | Then just give it the ability to activate from demo to full | 17:36 |
| alterego | crashanddie: when you're selling for that amount you don't need to. | 17:36 |
| crashanddie | without the ability to "cancel" a key | 17:36 |
| alterego | That'd be even easier for javispeado to crack :P | 17:37 |
| crashanddie | in other words, it only dials out upon activation, never afterwards | 17:37 |
| alterego | I'm not having any dial home in my apps. | 17:37 |
| crashanddie | ok, i'll admit, I have no idea what you're doing | 17:37 |
| alterego | That's the point of signing the package with a phones' IMEI | 17:37 |
| crashanddie | please explain? | 17:37 |
| alterego | Basically, someone orders, they give me their IMEI, I create a custom package for them and distribute it. | 17:38 |
| alterego | That package has in it a mechanism that stops it running when on a device that doesn't have a matching IMEI | 17:38 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: there are people that pirate for fun | 17:38 |
| chem|st | alterego: I'm not doing fancy giving anyone my IMEI | 17:38 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and there are people that just crack protections for fun | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know, jacekowski | 17:38 |
| crashanddie | alterego, you really believe people are going to give you their IMEI? | 17:38 |
| alterego | crashanddie: I don't know, we'll see :P | 17:38 |
| crashanddie | alterego, people are scared of giving their IP address on the web | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | let alone an IMEA | 17:39 |
| chem|st | alterego: IMEI's are on the hunt for china as they produce their jacker devices with stolen IMEIs | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | "OMG, HE'S GOING TO COPY MY SIMCARD" | 17:39 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: well, there are other option | 17:39 |
| erstazi | yeah, IMEI is a tad tough to give out for most people | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: and your best bet to beat those is to be 2 weeks ahead of them, with free upgrades etc | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | s | 17:39 |
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| alterego | Well, there are other options, IMEI seemed the most sensible. | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | it's definitely not | 17:39 |
| alterego | WLAN MAC or BT BDADDr | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | alterego: activation will be a lot better ida | 17:39 |
| jacekowski | idea | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | well, WLAN MAC is dangerous, cuz it's easily changeable | 17:39 |
| chem|st | alterego: much better | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: nobody with a clear understanding of IMEI will give a fuck | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | about stolen IMEI | 17:40 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, which makes it even more dangerous | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3597261994747725 | 17:40 |
| alterego | Heh, probably. | 17:40 |
| jacekowski | alterego: with good vm you can have it really secure | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ^^see I stole somebodies IMEI | 17:40 |
| Choom | but does that belong to an N900? | 17:40 |
| RST38h | YOu evildoer! | 17:40 |
| alterego | jacekowski: you mean an activation that locks itself to an IMEI? :) | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | who cares? | 17:41 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: well, as long as no terrorist used it in a plane hijack mood | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | pffft | 17:41 |
| RST38h | May the German TSA molest you for the rest of your life! | 17:41 |
| RST38h | =) | 17:41 |
| alterego | I suppose I could come up with an activation strategy. | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | what if I buy your app once | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | then ask for 200 keys? | 17:41 |
| jacekowski | alterego: yes, running in VM like themida | 17:41 |
| alterego | crashanddie: I'll tell you to piss off :P | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | what if I buy your app, and ask you for a key | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | and you're in the hospital? | 17:41 |
| RST38h | crash: You will be told to fuck off after first 3, 1 if you do not ask nicely | 17:41 |
| alterego | crashanddie: gutted :P | 17:42 |
| jacekowski | alterego: randomly generated vm with random instruction set running most important parts of protection | 17:42 |
| alterego | crashanddie: I was going to automate it :P | 17:42 |
| jacekowski | alterego: + self debugging | 17:42 |
| RST38h | crash: Basically, when you buy an app, you buy it for a certain device | 17:42 |
| jacekowski | alterego: + nanomites | 17:42 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:42 |
| RST38h | crash: He is not obliged to give you any more keys | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, no, he said it was for any device I owned | 17:42 |
| RST38h | crash: Then he is fucked. | 17:42 |
| RST38h | crash:Really bad promise to make. | 17:42 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: IMEA would be GeoCoord ;-b | 17:43 |
| alterego | crashanddie: I haven't decided :P | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | [16:36:16] <alterego> Seriously though, it's not like I'm going to be unreasonible, I'm not saying 1 copy per N900. | 17:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: nobody will mind if you crack last months version, even torrent it | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp, i know, typo... too used to typing "EMEA" rather than "IMEI" | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | users wnat new clean stuff | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | alterego, if your app is worth it | 17:43 |
| jacekowski | thing is that with only imei lock you can torrent it in minutes | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | alterego, it won't matter how good or bad the copy protection is | 17:43 |
| jacekowski | and have generic LD_PRELOAD based stuff | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | the few users willing to settle with an old cracked version are negligable | 17:44 |
| crashanddie | alterego, those who'll want to crack it will, and those who want to pay for it will | 17:44 |
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| crashanddie | alterego, it's your job to make it so that people are more inclined into paying than cracking | 17:44 |
| crashanddie | alterego, and the wrong answer to that problem is "let's make the cracking harder" | 17:44 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:44 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: it is part of answer | 17:44 |
| chem|st | alterego: the harder it is to crack more freaks are after it | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: exactly | 17:45 |
| * alterego sighs | 17:45 | |
| chem|st | or the more freaky are the freaks | 17:45 |
| erstazi | chem|st: exactly | 17:45 |
| alterego | I just want to make a bit of money for Christmas :( | 17:45 |
| jacekowski | do you know that most people will give up as soon as they see r0 stuff | 17:45 |
| erstazi | alterego: lift your pant leg on the street corner then | 17:45 |
| crashanddie | alterego, just add online route computation and tie it to an account :P Problem solved. | 17:45 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:45 |
| alterego | I'm not selling another tom tom style sat nav solution. | 17:46 |
| chem|st | alterego: most people will pay for a 1eur app but will think twice for 4eur | 17:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: it's not about hard to crack stuff, it's all about users are interested in least hassle to use things they want | 17:46 |
| erstazi | DocScrutinizer: agreed | 17:46 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: yeah, but you have couple factors | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually you don't use cracked stuff because you don't want to pay, you simply use it because it's such a hassle to pay | 17:46 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: how much it costs, how old is torrent version, how much they want features from later version, how much hassle is it | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 17:47 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: if you sell something for 1eur most will buy it | 17:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | al things easy to handle | 17:47 |
| jacekowski | if you sell it for 100eur | 17:47 |
| jacekowski | then more people will think about pirating it | 17:47 |
| crashanddie | chem|st, actually, I did a simulation for the company with random people in the street about how much they'd spend on random apps. I was pretty sure that more people would pay 1euro * 30 for different apps rather than 25euros * 1 for 30 different apps, turns out I was wrong. It's about perceived value, not actual spending. The iTunes numbers reflect this. | 17:47 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: that's about right | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | hey... | 17:48 |
| jacekowski | i personally don't have problem with spending 5 quid on something | 17:48 |
| erstazi | hey timeless_mbp | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a pidgin=>presence bridge? | 17:48 |
| * timeless_mbp installs | 17:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: once again about hassle of paying | 17:48 |
| jacekowski | but as soon as it gets more expensive more thought goes into it | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: only *if* you have *no* problems | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have problems paying 5 ct when only paying method is paypal or credit card | 17:49 |
| jacekowski | why you have problem with paypal | 17:50 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: because? | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ergo I look for a cracked version | 17:50 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, that's because you're a cheap german bastard :P | 17:50 |
| jacekowski | it's one of easiest and fastest ways of paying | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: because: I don't have either of them | 17:50 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: ??? | 17:50 |
| nidO | you dont need a paypal account to pay a business using paypal | 17:50 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't have a credit card? | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: paypal is one of the most ass raping ripoffs | 17:51 |
| nidO | you can pay it via credit or debit card through them | 17:51 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: do you know that most places where it says credit card you can use debit card as well | 17:51 |
| alterego | Yeah .. | 17:51 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: i used paypal for my downpayment on my Apt | 17:51 |
| alterego | I've only got a debit card/ | 17:51 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, rarely for you honestly | 17:51 |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: credit cards include debit cards | 17:51 |
| timeless_mbp | paypal + co don't care | 17:51 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, you can send money into paypal using IBAN | 17:52 |
| alterego | timeless_mbp: I know, I've never had a problem ordering stuff through paypal. | 17:52 |
| timeless_mbp | but no, i don't think PayPal accepts money mule, sorry :) | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, you can get your paypal account locked for no reason, and just piss off | 17:52 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, for the regular company using paypal, their costs for paypal are roughly equivalent to those they have for using credit card whatever, so the final cost to consumer is really the same (you wouldn't see a price difference in the products if they're using one or the other) | 17:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: lots of strange things can happen | 17:52 |
| timeless_mbp | that doesn't mean they happen often | 17:52 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp, only in specific countries | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp with paypal, yes | 17:53 |
| timeless_mbp | you *can* get hit by lightning bolts twice | 17:53 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: well, not if you are doing only debit cards | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 17:53 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: where it's free for everybody | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | paypal? fuckoff | 17:53 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, it ain't | 17:53 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, I just sent money to GAN, using a debit card, I had to pay | 17:53 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, about 2% of total amount | 17:53 |
| jacekowski | yeah, paypal | 17:53 |
| alterego | I could do a tmo vote thread | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that's me and shouldn't bother you | 17:53 |
| jacekowski | but if you buy something in a shop | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know most users have paypal | 17:53 |
| alterego | Stick up some screenshots and feature list and ask people to vote on how much they'd pay for it ;) | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | they don't pay anything for you using debit card | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, erhm, no, it really depends on the country and card type | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | but with credit cards they pay like 2-5% | 17:54 |
| nidO | in the UK most merchants have a fixed fee for accepting a debit card payment | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, in France, there's nearly only debit card, and most companies will rack up 8-12% of costs in card transactions | 17:54 |
| nidO | and a % for a credit card | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: here in uk companies get card terminal for free with business account | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | yeah, but that's because in the UK, a cheque is nearly impossible to find | 17:55 |
| jacekowski | not really | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | in France, cheques are free and everyone uses them | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | absolute nightmare | 17:55 |
| jacekowski | cheques are quite popular | 17:55 |
| jacekowski | and free | 17:55 |
| jacekowski | i mean not very popular | 17:56 |
| alterego | This conversation is getting deperessing. | 17:56 |
| crashanddie | in the UK? I had to pay 4 quid per cheque | 17:56 |
| crashanddie | with HSBC | 17:56 |
| jacekowski | i have it free | 17:56 |
| jacekowski | with lloyds | 17:56 |
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| crashanddie | I've never seen anyone pay by cheque in tesco's or sainsburry's | 17:56 |
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| nidO | thats because it's an obscene amount of hassle compared to plugging a debit card into a machine | 17:56 |
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| jacekowski | crashanddie: yeah, cards are easier to use | 17:57 |
| nidO | cheques are perfectly common other places though, my girlfriend's a solicitor and the large majority of the money they get in is via cheque | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: go for OVI or paypal or whatever you like, and make a simple activation sheme locking app to IMEI (or any other device unique property, I have another few for you) | 17:57 |
| crashanddie | A day doesn't pass in France without seeing an old lady or someone paying by cheque, at least once a day. Then give their ID, then sign, then validate the amount that was written to the cheque, etc... | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: no need to feel depressed by this debate | 17:57 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: yeah, cards are easier to use | 17:57 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, defo :P | 17:57 |
| jacekowski | stick it into terminal | 17:57 |
| jacekowski | type pin | 17:57 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, Ovi is shit | 17:58 |
| nidO | have pin seen by 15 people | 17:58 |
| jacekowski | find out that you are over limit | 17:58 |
| MohammadAG | utter bullshit | 17:58 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: I don't think Ovi allows activation schemes. | 17:58 |
| jacekowski | nidO: so | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 17:58 |
| jacekowski | nidO: not your problem | 17:58 |
| alterego | And only 60% of sale goes to me :) | 17:58 |
| jacekowski | nidO: when somebody uses your card with your pin then only bank looses | 17:58 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, open your own store, make your own IMEI checking code, profit | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: HAHAHA | 17:59 |
| jacekowski | nidO: because legally bank was not supposed to accept that transaction because it wasn't you doing it | 17:59 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: that's kind of where I'm heading at the moment ;) | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: HAHAHA | 17:59 |
| jacekowski | and they are required by law to return it | 17:59 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, actually, if the bank can prove that you disclosed the PIN to a third party, you're responsible for the loss | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: maybe that's UK jusrisdiction | 17:59 |
| jacekowski | only if you did it on purpose | 17:59 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, nope | 17:59 |
| jacekowski | not here | 17:59 |
| nidO | crashanddie having the pin seen without your knowledge isnt your problem though | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I get 70% for giving you the idea | 18:00 |
| jacekowski | they still have to return that money | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | nidO: sure, if you can *prove* it :-P | 18:00 |
| jacekowski | and then they can take you to court for fraud | 18:00 |
| jacekowski | but only after they returned everything | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | not here | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, I was a witness for CFS in a civil case against one of their customers, the customer lost. | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | And that was in Manchester | 18:01 |
| jacekowski | hmm, bad luck | 18:01 |
| kerio | Completely Fair Scheduler? | 18:01 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:01 |
| jacekowski | but going back to pin being seen by lot of people | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | what does it give you | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | i mean | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | if you see somebody elses pin | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | you still need a card | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | and there is loads of people there | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: some years ago customer was even in pinch when he was able to prove he wasn't in spain but in letland the time his card copy was abused in spain | 18:02 |
| edheldil | that can be stolen or skimmed | 18:02 |
| nidO | still, it defeats the entire purpose of pins existing | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | you just need to copy the magnetic strip, copy it on a chipless card | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: nope | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | then you can use it in any cash point or sale point | 18:02 |
| nidO | the whole point of replacing signiatures with pins was because a sig is easy to duplicate, but that still relied on having the card in the first place | 18:03 |
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| jacekowski | crashanddie: if strip says that it's chip&pin card | 18:03 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: terminal will try to talk to chip and fail | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, nope | 18:03 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: and will just reject card | 18:03 |
| alterego | nidO: that and clerks barely check signature. | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: nope | 18:03 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: so why when i slide magnetic strip it request to insert chip | 18:03 |
| alterego | I've regularly signed for stuff after getting my card back | 18:03 |
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| crashanddie | jacekowski, that's an EMV standard, go to italy, india, china, EMV isn't the most common standard | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | we had issues with chip here last new year: hot fix: scotch tape patch over chip | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, they'll read the strip, ask for PIN, validate transaction | 18:04 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i tried that | 18:04 |
| edheldil | alterego: they showed on TV here that you could get away with signing as different sex as well | 18:04 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: all i got was an error | 18:04 |
| nidO | UK merchants can still manually take payments from chip cards with a signiature though | 18:04 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, even the fecking expensive cash points in corner shops will let you get money from it | 18:04 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: do you know that pin is stored in magnetic strip? | 18:04 |
| alterego | I did an awful signature the other day, because my hads were freezing :D | 18:05 |
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| crashanddie | jacekowski, again, depends on the technology | 18:05 |
| jacekowski | it's "encrypted" but algo is well known | 18:05 |
| jacekowski | and there is only 10k possible options | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: again nope | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, french visa/mastercard doesn't, there is no "one card" | 18:05 |
| jacekowski | there is one standard for magnetic strip content | 18:05 |
| jacekowski | otherwise it wouldn't work abroad | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | right | 18:06 |
| crashanddie | which is why some readers only understand mastercard, others only amex? | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | like there's one standard for XML | 18:06 |
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| jacekowski | crashanddie: because of agreements between you and bank and card issuer | 18:06 |
| jacekowski | it's like with roaming | 18:07 |
| jacekowski | in country | 18:07 |
| jacekowski | it's all gsm | 18:07 |
| jacekowski | but you can only use your own carrier network | 18:07 |
| jacekowski | not because of incompatibilities | 18:07 |
| jacekowski | just because of business model | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | well, that's authentication, not technology | 18:07 |
| jacekowski | EMV | 18:08 |
| nidO | bad analogy though, as gsm has different frequencies so relies on your phone having the right modem for the right frequencies of the area | 18:08 |
| jacekowski | it stands for common format agreed between all card issuers | 18:08 |
| nidO | or you might be somewhere douchebaggy that uses cdma instead of gsm | 18:08 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, nope | 18:08 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, france has CB (Carte Bleue), which is a heckuvalot older than EMV | 18:08 |
| jacekowski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_stripe_card#Financial_cards | 18:08 |
| edheldil | nid0: but that different problem. With a gsm phone you won't have problems in most of the europe | 18:08 |
| jacekowski | There are up to three tracks on magnetic cards used for financial transactions, known as tracks 1, 2, and 3. Track 3 is virtually unused by the major worldwide networks such as VISA, and often isn't even physically present on the card by virtue of a narrower magnetic stripe. Point-of-sale card readers almost always read track 1, or track 2, and sometimes both, in case one track is unreadable. | 18:09 |
| jacekowski | Track 1 is written with code known as DEC SIXBIT plus odd parity. The information on track 1 on financial cards is contained in several formats: A, which is reserved for proprietary use of the card issuer, B, which is described below, C-M, which are reserved for use by ANSI Subcommittee X3B10 and N-Z, which are available for use by individual card issuers: | 18:09 |
| jacekowski | all well known common formats | 18:09 |
| jacekowski | anyways | 18:09 |
| jacekowski | i have stuff to do | 18:09 |
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| GAN900 | There MUST be some sort of reasonable open source PoS/Inventory Control system. . . . | 18:10 |
| crashanddie | germany has Geldkarte, or whatever the name is, DocScrutinizer ? Belgium has Bankcontact, and even further than that, EMV is just a standard, and itself has vastly different and even INCOMPATIBLE implementations | 18:11 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski, for example, IIRC (and it's been a while, so this may have changed), but I remember having to hack through a smartcard's firmware because we had to do a demo at the US DoD, and we only had Visa cards that wouldn't work on the Amex readers (VSCC vs AEPS or something) | 18:11 |
| crashanddie | Thank you wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV#Application_selection <-- if the terminal is only aware of the amex application, it won't be able to query the right app ID from the card. | 18:13 |
| tybollt | GAN: isat "Piece of Shit" or "Point of Sales" ;-D | 18:13 |
| crashanddie | GAN900, not that I'm aware of, but I could write one | 18:15 |
| crashanddie | GAN900, give me a 50k a year salary, and I'll do just that. About 9 months of work should be enough to get the first PoC | 18:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: 50k seems low, do you require benefits? | 18:18 |
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| crashanddie | nha, my first job coverse that | 18:18 |
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| crashanddie | s/rse/rs/ | 18:18 |
| timeless_mbp | or will you moonlight for the ... | 18:18 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: nha, my first job covers that | 18:18 |
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| crashanddie | timeless_mbp, oh, and not dollars, either ;) | 18:20 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 18:20 |
| crashanddie | I'm off, need to go buy presents for xmas | 18:20 |
| crashanddie | later all | 18:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cya | 18:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: what I'm talking about is MAESTRO and MASTERCARD | 18:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Geldkarte is another weird concept for micropayment off the chip, with a hidden/shadow account running in parallel at your bank | 18:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you store an amount of up to a few hundered bucks to Geldkarte, and it can take debits from any seller machine without PIN or any checkback at online | 18:24 |
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| timeless_ | crashanddie: hey | 18:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | the EUR is falling against the dollar | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | you sure you don't want to hedge your bets and take dollars assuming the EUR will fall below? :) | 18:27 |
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| Choom | considering how cheap the dollar is I'd say that's intended | 18:28 |
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| Choom | GBP is also quite cheap in EUR right now | 18:28 |
| Choom | I had never seen the USD touch .70 EUR before like it did not long ago | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | US fed printing $$$ and blaming EU for not printing €€€ - haha | 18:31 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, no. | 18:31 |
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| ieatlint | more like us fed printing money and eu asking "wtf?" :P | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hello? USA? it's not our fault if nobody want to buy your export anymore | 18:33 |
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| * ieatlint cries | 18:33 | |
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| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: hrm, people aren't buying iPhone's or Android's anymore? | 18:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll tell management | 18:33 |
| ieatlint | heh, without us making the hardware, it doesn't bring in nearly as much | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, see "made in..." X-P | 18:34 |
| ieatlint | at least not when it comes to the trade deficit | 18:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: that's your problem | 18:34 |
| timeless_mbp | whichi? | 18:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | management? | 18:34 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 18:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | i know | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | you think you're producing great stuff, but in fact you import it | 18:35 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 18:35 |
| timeless_mbp | no, we at Nokia have a strong NIH policy | 18:35 |
| GAN900 | Cars and microprocessors! | 18:35 |
| ieatlint | it's ok, we still embarrassed france with wine | 18:35 |
| GAN900 | Hehehe | 18:35 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: i'm not in .us, i'm in .fi/.eu | 18:35 |
| GAN900 | Hooray for the New World taste. | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, so s/your/USA's/ | 18:36 |
| njsf | so did my country :D | 18:36 |
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| njsf | I'm in the .us, but I meant .pt :D | 18:36 |
| njsf | this years contest had a cheap .pt wine win over very expensive .fr wines :D | 18:37 |
| timeless_mbp | njsf: nice | 18:37 |
| ieatlint | we've had that before too... it's mostly a joke | 18:37 |
| ieatlint | $2 wine wins competition, etc | 18:37 |
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| ieatlint | oh, here's something we exported: crap food | 18:39 |
| ieatlint | go enjoy a big mac and order a budweiser.. thanks to us, you can | 18:39 |
| ieatlint | you're welcome | 18:39 |
| pupnik | i don't think america exports much beer | 18:40 |
| nidO | or burgers, maccy d in the uk makes them here | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: USA export? A weird notion about freedom and democracy, that's 'exported' to other countries | 18:40 |
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| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: you live in germany, right? :P | 18:41 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: and unix :) | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, the only country where that export ever actually worked | 18:41 |
| kerio | "Sim card registration failed" | 18:41 |
| kerio | yay | 18:41 |
| kerio | :( | 18:41 |
| kerio | i really hope it's the sim itself | 18:41 |
| pupnik | the 'good enough' operating system | 18:41 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: essentially, yes | 18:42 |
| ieatlint | but then, our own democracy doesn't work | 18:42 |
| ieatlint | so what did you expect | 18:42 |
| pupnik | was supposed to be a republic not a democracy ;) | 18:42 |
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| pupnik | but the world ain't perfect | 18:43 |
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| kerio | so... it's not the sim | 18:46 |
| kerio | what could've gone wrong in my n900? | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | d-bus, phonet, libisi | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | Does the sim card work in any other phones? | 18:47 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: yeah | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | or you configured to store the PIN and don't ask for it, then changed it on the card | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | I had something similar, turned out to be hw fault in n90p | 18:48 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: not that | 18:48 |
| ieatlint | i also seem to recall some people having issues with the pins making good contact with the card | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 18:48 |
| ieatlint | with suggestions of adding a piece of paper to the back of the sim card to push it against the pins | 18:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | suggested fix: carefully pull out and bend the contact springs a bit | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | paper usually is BS | 18:49 |
| ShadowJK | didn't work for me. I think the board itself is broken, because there's a very specific point on my n900 I can press and cellmo crashes within 10 secs | 18:50 |
| alterego | Just added a nice little feature, that when you lock the screen, it disables my apps screen keepalive routine. | 18:50 |
| alterego | Then when you unlock it, it re-enables keep-alive :) | 18:50 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, South Korea, Japan. | 18:50 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: so don't press it! | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 18:51 |
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| kerio | :P | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | though both are really fsck up | 18:51 |
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| kkal | funny how there are more people in #maemo than in #android | 18:52 |
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| kkal | even though there are substantially more android users than maemo users | 18:52 |
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| ieatlint | it's too cold here right now | 18:53 |
| nidO | freezing here too :( | 18:53 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, well it happens randomly when it pocket | 18:54 |
| nidO | wts case? | 18:54 |
| GAN900 | kkal, contribution levels. | 18:54 |
| GAN900 | kkal, most people who don't work for Google don't get to be involved in Android. | 18:54 |
| kerio | >solid, innovative hardware and open, versatile software | 18:54 |
| GAN900 | kkal, also, this channel is official. | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: in korea they got nazi blockwarts I heard which hunt down shop owners not charging for platic bags and people spitting floor, and japan never got the whole point of hire&fire at all, among other madness | 18:55 |
| kerio | tried raising the contact pins a bit | 18:55 |
| kerio | still failed | 18:55 |
| kerio | GODDAMMIT | 18:56 |
| BCMM | if i have a sound problem which doesn't go away on reboot but does go away if i remove the battery, is there any possibility that it isn't a hardware problem? | 18:56 |
| kerio | so... i guess it's time for nokia care huh | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: some codec using DSP lock up and occupying the audio | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe | 18:57 |
| ShadowJK | BCMM, sounds unlikely. But, if it's a hw problem, nokia care is wiping your data/install anyways, so you might as well try reflash | 18:57 |
| ShadowJK | and dont reinstall every app | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: there's a similar problem known for breakage of video playback | 18:57 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: would breaking the DSP prevent *any* audio playing? | 18:58 |
| ShadowJK | dsp isn't used for audio | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: I dunno | 18:58 |
| BCMM | even things like flash, mplayer, aplay | 18:58 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: we can also add the philippines to the list of "democracies" we set up | 18:58 |
| BCMM | ShadowJK: they don't accellerate mp3 playback? | 18:58 |
| ShadowJK | no | 18:58 |
| BCMM | no sound at all, not even in calls | 18:58 |
| ShadowJK | mplayer doesn't use dsp, at all | 18:59 |
| BCMM | i've had the DSP get in a stupid state before, and it isn't like that | 18:59 |
| BCMM | ShadowJK: i know | 18:59 |
| BCMM | also, pressing the volume keys doesn't make the OSD appear | 18:59 |
| BCMM | taht's the odd bit for me | 18:59 |
| BCMM | that only reason i still wonder if it's a software thing | 18:59 |
| ShadowJK | yeah.. | 18:59 |
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| ShadowJK | anything in dmesg? | 18:59 |
| BCMM | that's odd, i have a feeling there wasn't, but now i think about it i don't actually remember checking | 19:00 |
| BCMM | that's stupid | 19:00 |
| BCMM | i'll check next time, thanks | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/ | 19:00 |
| ShadowJK | How often does it happen? | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | for some bits bout codec usage and DSP | 19:00 |
| BCMM | so the DSP only does video? | 19:01 |
| BCMM | why? | 19:01 |
| BCMM | ShadowJK: seems to have happened about every day for the past few days | 19:01 |
| BCMM | before that, never happened before | 19:02 |
| ShadowJK | So that it's free for video | 19:02 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, there's stuff about the dsp in there? | 19:02 |
| BCMM | it seemed to start when i installed live-wallpapers, but i don't think uninstalling it fixed that | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc yes | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | on a side note at least, or a comment | 19:03 |
| BCMM | in teh comments | 19:03 |
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| pupnik | ok guys back in 1988 a company released glasses that would laserbeam a monochrome display into your eyeball | 19:04 |
| tugrik | i can't find the x11vnc for Maemo 5 in the extras repository, anyone know what happened to it? | 19:04 |
| pupnik | where are my irc sunglasses | 19:04 |
| BCMM | pupnik: hah, you're still using a computer to go on irc? | 19:04 |
| ShadowJK | A nokia default mp3 decoder vs ffvorbis would be interesting :) | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, someone needs to remind me how to use package promotion | 19:05 |
| pupnik | BCMM: everyone does. | 19:05 |
| ShadowJK | BCMM, n900 has tvout, remember | 19:05 |
| ShadowJK | you could connect videoglasses to your n900 | 19:05 |
| BCMM | ShadowJK: what makes you think laser sunglasses take video-in? | 19:05 |
| pupnik | i'm wondering about the technology | 19:06 |
| pupnik | it doesn't use a 'screen' | 19:06 |
| BCMM | tugrik: i don't think anything happened to it, are you looking for it in HAM or apt-cache search? | 19:06 |
| BCMM | pupnik: projection onto the retina with a moving laser beam | 19:06 |
| BCMM | iirc | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: get ten votes | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | then there's a button "promote" | 19:06 |
| pupnik | BCMM: wondering why it's 22 years later and these are not commodity products | 19:06 |
| BCMM | persistence of vision makes it into a picture | 19:06 |
| tugrik | the application manager - HAM? | 19:06 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: not my package | 19:07 |
| pupnik | bluetooth text glasses | 19:07 |
| timeless_mbp | turns out i want to vote against | 19:07 |
| BCMM | tugrik: Hildon Application Manager, yes | 19:07 |
| tugrik | that's it :) | 19:07 |
| BCMM | tugrik: try "apt-get install x11vnc" | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: huh? | 19:07 |
| tugrik | can't see it on downloads.maemo.org either | 19:07 |
| BCMM | i don't actually know what controls what appears in HAM; something about catagories | 19:07 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.org/packages/view/active-desktop-sp/ | 19:07 |
| timeless_mbp | initially i wanted to vote for it | 19:07 |
| BCMM | and i don't know how debian package categories work | 19:07 |
| pupnik | sivang: timeless_mbp thanks for that meego presentation - it really was educational. So far the only lecture I saw that was nuts-n-bolts about the UX | 19:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | but it's buggy, so i want to vote against | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: thanks | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: did you try the slides? | 19:08 |
| BCMM | timeless_mbp: what is that actually for? | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: buggy isn't a proper criterion for a downvote | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: see bug 11615 | 19:08 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11615 Activate views should indicate current view and deactivating a view shouldn't delete its content | 19:08 |
| pupnik | timeless_mbp: i wish the camera were on the slides and not the presenter | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: it works around stupidity in core :) | 19:08 |
| BCMM | how many bots are in here? | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: yeah | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | that really annoyed me | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: 2 or 3 | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | prolly more | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't like seeing my floating head w/ redish tail | 19:09 |
| BCMM | i wholeheartedly agree with that bug | 19:09 |
| BCMM | also, you should be able to name desktops | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: naming desktops is um... painful | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | it's unclear whether it's a particularly useful feature | 19:09 |
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| BCMM | well, i use it on KDE | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so um | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: the question is does the average person | 19:09 |
| BCMM | of course, the concept of desktop is a bit different if windows belong to a desktop | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | the followup questions are | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | if we have to spend resources on supporting the feature | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | how likely are we to screw it up | 19:10 |
| BCMM | no, that's why the default names should be 1, 2, 3 and 4 | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and what else suffer | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | s | 19:10 |
| tugrik | no sigh of it from "apt-cache search x11vnc" bcmm, only if I go into EasyDebian... and then I *presume* installing it using apt-get from there will give me remote access to the EasyDebian LXDE rather than the N900 screen | 19:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | tugrik: do you want vnc viewer or vnc server? | 19:10 |
| tugrik | the article I'm looking at regarding this is less than a year old... http://www.gali.co.uk/2010/02/n900-tricks-remote-control-with-vnc-x11vnc/ | 19:10 |
| BCMM | tugrik: huh, odd. apt-get update? | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you want vnc server, why? | 19:11 |
| tugrik | vnc server | 19:11 |
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| BCMM | tugrik: also, doesn't easydebian use the regular X server? | 19:11 |
| tugrik | so I can look at my phone screen on my desktop's screen | 19:11 |
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| BCMM | timeless_mbp: maybe his computer has a bigger monitor? | 19:11 |
| tugrik | I think easydebian uses its on Xserver | 19:11 |
| BCMM | i use a vnc server on teh phone on occasion | 19:11 |
| BCMM | ah | 19:11 |
| tugrik | heh BCMM | 19:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | tugrik: you enabled extras-devel? | 19:12 |
| timeless_mbp | s/enabled/added/ | 19:12 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: tugrik: you added extras-devel? | 19:12 |
| BCMM | i once plugged my n900 into a sound system then used someone else's to change tracks remotely over VNC | 19:12 |
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| BCMM | so there. | 19:12 |
| tugrik | no timeless_mbp - trying to avoid the more experimental stuff, especially as x11vnc appears to be in Extras according to that blog port | 19:12 |
| tugrik | *post | 19:12 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?name=X11vnc&fldAuto=864&faq=37 | 19:12 |
| BCMM | tugrik: if you did use easydeb's one, you could presumably just change the value of DISPLAY for it | 19:12 |
| Macer | haha | 19:12 |
| timeless_mbp | claims it's in extras and extras-testing in addition to extras-devel | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache search vnc | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | presencevnc - A touchscreen friendly VNC client | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | x11vnc - VNC server to allow remote access to an existing X session | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | vncviewer - A VNC viewer for maemo | 19:13 |
| Macer | the rock is so funny. you can so obviously see the stunt drivers | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache policy x11vnc | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0.9.3-maemo7 0 | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 19:15 |
| * DocScrutinizer away | 19:15 | |
| pupnik | New invention for germany: Not openstreetmap. Openairmap. Every participant runs a client that surveils the sky with a client that identifies moving objects. Based on camera orientation and location, a live map of the sky is created. | 19:15 |
| pupnik | Invented by pupnik, today | 19:16 |
| tugrik | ah, I'm got my distribution set to "fremantle-1.3" | 19:16 |
| chem|st | pupnik: already available, live streams of air controll radio too | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | tugrik: that might be correct for a PR1.3 system | 19:17 |
| pupnik | chem|st: not available at all | 19:18 |
| pupnik | i'm talking about a decentralized network | 19:18 |
| chem|st | pupnik: it is called radar... and you got lots of radar stations all over the place | 19:18 |
| pupnik | please think. this is revolutionary. | 19:18 |
| pupnik | nope | 19:18 |
| chem|st | pupnik: cloudy sky atm but I can tell by sound if Ramstein Airbase has incomings and where they are... | 19:19 |
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| pupnik | chem|st: the whole point of arpanet/internet was robustness from attack | 19:19 |
| pupnik | there is no robust air defense now | 19:20 |
| pupnik | it is tied to a few radar points | 19:20 |
| pupnik | under central control | 19:20 |
| pupnik | which can pretty easily be hijacked | 19:20 |
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| pupnik | as a product, the client can be sold as a UFO searching app | 19:21 |
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| pupnik | for free of course | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: in fact astronomers might consider that a useful app | 19:22 |
| chem|st | pupnik: traffic is controlled but the bare radar date comes from all over the place | 19:22 |
| pupnik | just needs a cheap ip camera set on the roof | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they already have similar thing | 19:22 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: what is that? | 19:22 |
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| pupnik | surveying airspace is purely defensive. nobody can object to it. | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | locate meteorites | 19:23 |
| pupnik | ahh | 19:23 |
| chem|st | pupnik: it is opensource btw | 19:23 |
| chem|st | not the data but the server is | 19:23 |
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| chem|st | can be used to control scopes, auto align and so on | 19:24 |
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| chem|st | pupnik: and it is webserver based | 19:26 |
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| pupnik | chem|st: what is the name of it? | 19:28 |
| chem|st | pupnik: maybe you can use that for some good, the web-based planetarium server stuff is here http://ciclope.fi.upm.es/tools/planetario/index_en.shtml | 19:28 |
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| BCMM | pupnik: some (government) nutter in the US managed to argue that that iphone app that identifies commercial flights was a terrorist tool | 19:29 |
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| chem|st | pupnik: as example you compare the web-based planetarium with the current live view to find objects in the night-sky | 19:30 |
| BCMM | also, a cheap IP camera won't show aircraft unless they're pretty low | 19:30 |
| pupnik | a town running about 100 clients could identify position and vector of even low-flying cruise missiles | 19:31 |
| chem|st | pupnik: I would not rely my air defense on that... | 19:31 |
| chem|st | <- away | 19:32 |
| BCMM | pupnik: a low-flying cruise missile would cross a cheap camera's field of view *between* frames | 19:32 |
| alterego | Well, when screen locked, and streaming over TCP/IP and logging, columbus uses ~1% CPU | 19:33 |
| BCMM | basically, i reckon cheap cameras have insufficient resolution for high things, and insufficient frame-rates for low things | 19:33 |
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| alterego | Think I'm gonna do some power usage stats when I've finished. | 19:34 |
| BCMM | also, you won't be able to combine the images to get a vector for an (angularly) fast thing unless you can correct for latency | 19:34 |
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| BCMM | that said, ntp is basically very good | 19:34 |
| BCMM | but cheap IP cameras don't run it | 19:34 |
| pupnik | BCMM: they travel about 10 meters every 1/30 second | 19:35 |
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| pupnik | yes you won't see one fly right over you, but you would if you pointed the camera low | 19:35 |
| BCMM | that's about fast subsonic, right? | 19:35 |
| pupnik | yes | 19:35 |
| pupnik | but your point is valid | 19:35 |
| pupnik | there is a resolution problem with the idea | 19:36 |
| BCMM | also, you are correct that it is possible to bomb radar stations | 19:36 |
| BCMM | but it is also possible to bomb power stations | 19:36 |
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| pupnik | actually i was thinking of inner sabotage | 19:37 |
| BCMM | well, same | 19:37 |
| pupnik | not so much | 19:37 |
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| pupnik | if your awareness of the airspace is sabotage proof | 19:37 |
| pupnik | then you can use your best tech to defend your power stations | 19:38 |
| alterego | So the conversations has gone from processing credit payments to terrorism? :) | 19:38 |
| BCMM | terrorism typically implies a situation too asymmetric for the enemy to have aircraft | 19:39 |
| pupnik | no alterego | 19:39 |
| pupnik | war | 19:39 |
| alterego | waaaaaar | 19:39 |
| alterego | What has Nokia done now for you to want to blow up power plants in Finland? | 19:39 |
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| kerio | alterego: my n900 has stopped working :( | 19:40 |
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| kerio | they deserve the worst | 19:41 |
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| Venemo_N900 | hi guys | 19:41 |
| BCMM | also, i'm sure that very low flying aircraft already intentionally avoid populated places | 19:41 |
| BCMM | Venemo_N900: g'day | 19:41 |
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| korhojoa | anyone using mumble on the n900? | 19:41 |
| pupnik | BCMM: sure, any attacker would probably have access to the map of cameras and be able to plot an optimal route between them | 19:41 |
| Venemo_N900 | the phone application started to say "no recent calls", even though there _are_ recent calls. after I make a call, the list is still empty and it still says "no recent calls" | 19:42 |
| BCMM | pupnik: well, if they are based on roofs of houses, they would be easy to avoid | 19:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | could anyone help me please? | 19:42 |
| BCMM | Venemo_N900: is your date set wrong? | 19:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | BCMM: nope | 19:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | BCMM: this started after the phone app crashed earlier today | 19:43 |
| BCMM | ook | 19:43 |
| BCMM | i guess it crashed with a broken config or something | 19:43 |
| korhojoa | well. anyone know if to use pulseaudio or alsa to get audio in and out in a program? | 19:43 |
| pupnik | Venemo_N900: are the 'recent calls' supposed to show only incoming calls? | 19:43 |
| Venemo_N900 | pupnik: nope. | 19:43 |
| Venemo_N900 | pupnik: I had incoming calls too, and they don't appear either. nor do missed calls | 19:44 |
| alterego | Freakin' hell it's cold outside. | 19:44 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: yeah... | 19:44 |
| korhojoa | alterego, how cold? | 19:44 |
| pupnik | Venemo_N900: well it looks like phone app crashed and left bad data somewhere that's breaking it | 19:45 |
| alterego | 1deg I think | 19:45 |
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| korhojoa | alterego, 1 degree what? C or F | 19:45 |
| Venemo_N900 | pupnik: that's good thinking | 19:45 |
| alterego | c | 19:45 |
| korhojoa | that's not cold | 19:45 |
| Venemo_N900 | pupnik: but I have no idea what to do about it | 19:45 |
| alterego | bloody is :P | 19:45 |
| alterego | can't feel my toes | 19:46 |
| merlin1991 | 1c is evil | 19:46 |
| korhojoa | not really. it's -5 here, i can feel my toes just fine | 19:46 |
| merlin1991 | if you have no shoes on ;) | 19:46 |
| Venemo_N900 | lol | 19:46 |
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| korhojoa | darn. no-one knows about sound stuff on the n900? | 19:46 |
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| alterego | GPS data logging and streaming over tcp/ip at 1% cpu is quite reasonible I think. | 19:47 |
| Venemo_N900 | korhojoa: sound stuff? | 19:47 |
| BCMM | korhojoa: i'm just finding the wiki page | 19:47 |
| korhojoa | okay | 19:47 |
| Venemo_N900 | korhojoa: what's the problem | 19:48 |
| ShadowJK | alterego, remember it's the wakeups (of both radio and cpu) that cost power :-) | 19:48 |
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| alterego | Still, want to monitor bandwidth usage and battery usage, before I start using it dat-to-day. | 19:48 |
| BCMM | korhojoa: what sort of sound output are you looking for? do you want it to go "ding" when you press a button for some feedback, or are you trying to play music or something? | 19:48 |
| korhojoa | i'm trying to get mumble to work (mumble is a voip chat client) | 19:48 |
| alterego | ShadowJK: yeah | 19:48 |
| trumee | korhojoa, is that a sip client? | 19:48 |
| korhojoa | no | 19:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | korhojoa: umm... I no nothing about it, sorry | 19:48 |
| ShadowJK | One tcp/ip packet every 5 seconds on 3g eats about as much power as streaming mp3 continously.. | 19:49 |
| alterego | ShadowJK: this is continuous | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | 1% CPU is a lie. | 19:49 |
| alterego | It's logging to file that I expect to do anyway. | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | In that it is not a meaningful measure of power consumption. | 19:50 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan_: ping | 19:50 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: ping | 19:50 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: I understand that :P | 19:50 |
| BCMM | korhojoa: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components | 19:50 |
| alterego | This is why I want to do a power usage test tomorrow. | 19:50 |
| alterego | Just need to finish some configuration backend issues and I'm pretty much done. | 19:51 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: 1% cpu is good, but the cpu is not gonna be the biggest power hog in this situation anyway | 19:52 |
| alterego | Yes, I know ... | 19:53 |
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| alterego | Oh, also need to stop ui updates when backgrounded. | 19:53 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: do you have a clue about the weird behaviour of the phone app? | 19:53 |
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| Venemo_N900 | alterego: that's a good idea yes. | 19:54 |
| alterego | Venemo_N900: nope no idea, I lost a couple of sms' and a phone call last week when my N900 ground to a halt and I had to restart. | 19:54 |
| Venemo_N900 | ouch | 19:55 |
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| Venemo_N900 | I have not lost a call in such manner yet | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | weird behavior of the phone? | 19:56 |
| alterego | At least I got to see who sent/phoned me. | 19:56 |
| Venemo_N900 | timeless_mbp: yes | 19:57 |
| Venemo_N900 | timeless_mbp: the phone app crashed once. now it doesn't display any calls | 19:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | joy | 19:57 |
| timeless_mbp | sounds like icd | 19:57 |
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| Venemo_N900 | timeless_mbp: it just says "no recent calls" and the list remains empty | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | which when it does,... you can't connect to networks until you reboot | 19:58 |
| alterego | Venemo_N900: and you've restarted? | 19:58 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: not yet | 19:59 |
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| Venemo_N900 | should I? | 20:00 |
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| pupnik | "If you don't like chicken or watermelon, there's SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU" - Chappelle | 20:00 |
| alterego | Probably, depends if you're planing to investigate the issue further. | 20:00 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 drools over new xchat cursor-up/down mapping | 20:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | easy convenient scrolling | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | was a matter of removing two checkmarks and add them on the next two keybindings instead | 20:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: now add fontsize 'zooming' for me and I'm a happy panda | 20:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh wow | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, nm | 20:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/11/new_orleans_still_working_to_f.html | 20:11 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer51: what xchat mapping is that? | 20:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | trumee: page scroll or sth | 20:13 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer51: Page Up and Down ? | 20:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | scroll page +1 / -1, 3rd and 4th entry of my key shortcuts | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | remove the checkmark for "Shift" | 20:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | add them to next command / last command | 20:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here heard of www.elisa.fi/viihde ? | 20:19 |
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| GuySoft | hi all, i seem to be getting all the time modest threads in my memo device that eat up memory , what might be causing this?? | 20:21 |
| timeless_mbp | are you using pop, imap, mfe, other? | 20:21 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer51: i only have Ctrl checkmarked in 1 (Page Up and Page Down) keys | 20:23 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer51: First row reads C, Page_Down, Change Page, -1 Relative | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes, those | 20:25 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer51: So i Enable shift? | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | oh | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not change page. SCROLL page | 20:26 |
| timeless_mbp | right, so... um | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | looks like S up page-scroll -1 | 20:27 |
| timeless_mbp | someone said there was some reasonable electronic tv solution for finland | 20:27 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone remember it? | 20:27 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer51: hmm. and i should be able to scroll using Shift + Up arrow? | 20:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | if you got that mapping like I see here | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | then yes, and I switched that to scrolling without shift now | 20:30 |
| trumee | yes, i have. But Shift + Up gives me single line scrolling and Not Page scrolling | 20:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yes | 20:31 |
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| trumee | ah ok. I was hoping to do Page Up, rather than a single Up. | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | trumee: key repeat works fine here. If you want 'faster' scrolling thenmchange -1 to e.g. -10 | 20:32 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer51: cool | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mere guess | 20:33 |
| trumee | :) | 20:33 |
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| trumee | yes, not a good guess though. doesnt work! | 20:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | :-S | 20:37 |
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| Funnyface | hmm this annoys me, my N900 keeps dropping back to "3G" all the time, tried my SIM in my old winmo device, it's keeping a steady HSDPA connection.. | 20:41 |
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| X-Fade | Funnyface: Lol, that is actually what it is supposed to do. | 20:55 |
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| X-Fade | Funnyface: Idle on 3G, transfer data on 3.5. | 20:55 |
| Funnyface | it does it on transfer as well | 20:56 |
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| X-Fade | Funnyface: But most other devices don't show that. | 20:56 |
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| tugrik | DocScrutinizer51 so... if I set up freemantle-1.2 repository... am I asked for trouble? Or just enable it temporarily to install x11vnc? | 20:58 |
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| Funnyface2 | X-Fade: my connection died :\ well it sits there on 3G even with an active connection | 21:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tugrik: no idea | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | active connection != data transfer. 3.5G is just another word for "wow that's really fast 3G". So no way to tell it's 3.5 unless you actually transfer data | 21:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | other phones might store up a previous 3.5G state and display that all the time, but that's not quite correct | 21:10 |
| korhojoa | hmm. guys, anyone know how to get kernel power back in to multiboot, since it isn't showing right now? i've got nitdroid installed, and i just installed that from a fresh pr1.3 | 21:10 |
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| fil | I note that my n900's camera seems not to want to run recently -- am I right in thinking that the thing that's being run would be camera-ui.launch, and if so, I'm guessing that the fact that segfaults when run from the command line might be related | 21:10 |
| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RQlikX4vvw Finland is a Rising Power - "This Christmas Everyone Will Believe in Santa Claus. | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | fil: uninstall fcam | 21:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | korhojoa: the multiboot FAQ doesn't cover that? | 21:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 21:13 |
| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer, well. it does, but installing fails since 'there is no install candidate' | 21:15 |
| korhojoa | also, when you get the file from maemo.org and install it with dpkg, it fails with some guru meditation, "can't flash kernel, file not found" | 21:16 |
| tugrik | DocScrutinizer: installed it from extras-testing, now time to wrap some security around it - thanks for your help | 21:16 |
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| Funnyface | DocScrutinizer: I understand, but.. when it says 3.5G anywhere between 80-200KB/s when looking at the bandwidth graph, then suddenly it might drop to 3G and I get a steady 40KB/s instead. and it seems to freeze at that speed, the latency on ping times gets higher | 21:19 |
| johnsq | Hi | 21:19 |
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| Venemo | hey guys | 21:19 |
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| Venemo | a restart indeed solved the stupidity of the phone app | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | funthat's BTS controlled | 21:19 |
| Venemo | so thanks for the idea alterego | 21:19 |
| alterego | Fixes a lot of this :) | 21:20 |
| alterego | things ... | 21:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | neh | 21:20 |
| Funnyface | now I remember why I hated my winmo phone :P | 21:21 |
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| kerio | so... it was a network problem | 21:32 |
| kerio | apparently every linux-based phone has the same problem as of now, with my carrier | 21:32 |
| kerio | how does that even make sense | 21:32 |
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| nidO | it doesnt | 21:33 |
| fil | DocScrutinizer: that did the trick -- thanks :-) | 21:35 |
| kerio | nidO: i shit you not | 21:36 |
| kerio | in 2g, i get roaming working fine | 21:36 |
| kerio | (my carrier is 3g-only) | 21:37 |
| kerio | every android (and maemo apparently) phone on h3g italy can't connect | 21:38 |
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| nidO | cant see what possible difference the device could make | 21:38 |
| kerio | imei? | 21:39 |
| ieatlint | was about to suggest... they might filter imeis for some unknown reason | 21:39 |
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| kerio | a model-wide imei block? | 21:41 |
| nidO | an imei on its own doesnt identify a device platform though, theyd need to be specifically collecting imei ranges from handset manufactures and blocking them purposefully | 21:41 |
| kerio | yay italy :| | 21:41 |
| * toggles slaps kerio with a wet trout | 21:42 | |
| X-Fade | Or you apn setup is just not correct ;) | 21:42 |
| toggles | not yay | 21:42 |
| X-Fade | *your | 21:42 |
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| kerio | X-Fade: or it's a widespread problem that happened to a lot of people? | 21:42 |
| ieatlint | nidO, definitely possible | 21:42 |
| ieatlint | but weird that they'd want to | 21:43 |
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| ieatlint | and apn setup would only affect your data access... it'd still register with the network for voice/sms | 21:43 |
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| X-Fade | kerio: Well, if the default setting is just not ok. | 21:45 |
| MohammadAG | so, i've noticed others have been having problems with pulseaudio auto starting | 21:46 |
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| MohammadAG | what the fuck is wrong with tmo?! | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG | users asking for torrentleach invites without getting their threads closed | 21:55 |
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| GAN900 | MohammadAG, did you report the post? | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | no | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | it's 6 months old, you'd think a mod would've seen it... | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | (was bumped today) | 21:59 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: well then report it | 22:04 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, pong :P | 22:04 |
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| tugrik | another question - I don't appear to have a /usr/share/applications/hildon/ directory - has thischanged in later releases? | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | no, check again | 22:08 |
| alterego | Heh | 22:09 |
| alterego | It's there :P | 22:09 |
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| pupnik | so what is the story behind the 8088 | 22:09 |
| pupnik | intel had something kind of usable with 8086 | 22:10 |
| pupnik | but something happened | 22:10 |
| pupnik | why did that bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, cpu dominate | 22:10 |
| pupnik | baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad | 22:10 |
| pupnik | why did something so bad | 22:11 |
| pupnik | get sold | 22:11 |
| pupnik | think about that, kids | 22:11 |
| pupnik | and engineer kids | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | shouldn't that be in #intel (if that channel exists) :P | 22:11 |
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| tugrik | [root@deb-m5v3d: /usr/share/applications]pwd | 22:11 |
| tugrik | /usr/share/applications | 22:11 |
| tugrik | [root@deb-m5v3d: /usr/share/applications]id | 22:11 |
| tugrik | uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root),20(dialout),29(audio),44(video),670(pulse-access) | 22:11 |
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| tugrik | [root@deb-m5v3d: /usr/share/applications]ls h* | 22:11 |
| tugrik | ls: cannot access h*: No such file or directory | 22:11 |
| tugrik | [root@deb-m5v3d: /usr/share/applications] | 22:11 |
| tugrik | it's not there :) | 22:11 |
| pupnik | ignore tugrik | 22:12 |
| pupnik | MohammadAG: because the 8088 was a bastard designed in Israel on a bulldozed palestinian town. | 22:12 |
| pupnik | that's why 8088 was satanic | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG | is that your N900? | 22:12 |
| lcuk | band is it running maemo or debian | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG | ~pastebin | 22:12 |
| infobot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude. | 22:12 |
| lcuk | -b | 22:12 |
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| tugrik | ah, do you have a pastebin policy? | 22:13 |
| tugrik | any guidelines on numbers of lines? | 22:13 |
| tugrik | 3 lines, gotcha - cheers lcuk | 22:13 |
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| pupnik | now as long as future maemo/meego devices don't have INTELLIGENCE AGENCY INSIDE | 22:14 |
| pupnik | we'll be ok | 22:14 |
| pupnik | and any fucking indication of that is to be released IMMEDIATELY | 22:15 |
| pupnik | to wikileaks | 22:15 |
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| pupnik | NO RESPECT | 22:15 |
| pupnik | for the DUMB PEOPLE IN YOUR JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL | 22:15 |
| pupnik | those people are IDIOTS | 22:16 |
| alterego | tugrik: 3 medium lengthed lines :P | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | pupnik, ok? | 22:16 |
| tugrik | yeah, fair enough alterego, i'm used to smaller channels than this :) | 22:16 |
| * GAN900 hands pupnik some chocolate. | 22:17 | |
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| pupnik | GAN900: knife throwing is a great hobby | 22:18 |
| pupnik | poison tip and you're good to go | 22:18 |
| GAN900 | pupnik, I go to the range at least once a month. | 22:18 |
| * pupnik nods ok.. .sorry for my tone | 22:19 | |
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| Arkenoi | http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/hostmode.jpg <- got a nice adapter for just $3 on the local market | 22:28 |
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| Arkenoi | http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/hostmode.jpg | 22:29 |
| Arkenoi | oops | 22:29 |
| Arkenoi | accidentally pasted again | 22:29 |
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| MohammadAG | :) | 22:29 |
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| MohammadAG | I like those, but I'm not sure if the stress is a lot on the port | 22:30 |
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| Choom | what's with all the clones? | 22:30 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: thx for the pong :) | 22:37 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: the problem for which I pinged you has been solved :P | 22:37 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: btw I found a few bugs in Qt myself :( | 22:37 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: have you reported your bug yet? | 22:38 |
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| pupnik | ____ | 22:46 |
| pupnik | (. \ | 22:46 |
| pupnik | \ | | 22:46 |
| pupnik | \ |___(\--/) | 22:46 |
| pupnik | __/ ( . . ) | 22:46 |
| pupnik | "'._. '-.O.' | 22:46 |
| pupnik | '-. \ "|\ | 22:46 |
| pupnik | '.,,/'.,, | 22:47 |
| pupnik | imagine programming an AI that would recognize that as a 'cat' | 22:47 |
| derf | Looks more like a cross between a squirrel, a pig, and a bear. | 22:47 |
| Appiah | I was gonna say squirrel | 22:48 |
| pupnik | imagine programming an AI that would recognize that as an animal | 22:48 |
| pupnik | you can't | 22:48 |
| pupnik | you're too stupid | 22:49 |
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| jotta | anyone knows an applicatio for change the voice? for symbian s60 3r | 22:49 |
| Appiah | Program a AI to recognize ACSII art | 22:49 |
| kerio | jotta: #symbian | 22:49 |
| Gh0sty | lol that looked more like a squirrel indeed Appiah :p | 22:50 |
| kerio | that's a squirrel | 22:50 |
| Appiah | ASCII* | 22:50 |
| Gh0sty | the AI shouldnt be that good that it is better then humans :p | 22:50 |
| pupnik | pretty sad.... | 22:50 |
| pupnik | no progress | 22:50 |
| lcuk | if humans cannot confir on a recognition of what is clearly a racoon then what hope do computers have :P | 22:50 |
| pupnik | and the smartest people only can say how difficult it is | 22:50 |
| pupnik | _,'| _.-''``-...___..--';) | 22:51 |
| pupnik | /_ \'. __..-' , ,--...--''' | 22:51 |
| pupnik | <\ .`--''' ` /' | 22:51 |
| pupnik | `-';' ; ; ; | 22:51 |
| pupnik | __...--'' ___...--_..' .;.' | 22:51 |
| pupnik | (,__....----''' (,..--'' Felix Lee | 22:51 |
| pupnik | happy | 22:51 |
| Appiah | cat! | 22:51 |
| Gh0sty | as long as my n900 does not try to kill me ... I'm alright with that | 22:51 |
| kerio | that's some kind of feline with a beak | 22:51 |
| * Gh0sty saw too much terminator | 22:51 | |
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| lcuk | kerio, it also managed to poop out words | 22:52 |
| pupnik | Appiah: a smart computer would recognize that form in a sea of noise | 22:52 |
| Appiah | well , we got stuff to recongize faces | 22:53 |
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| Appiah | maybe we are not that far from taking pictures of things and have it say "that's a cat" | 22:53 |
| jacekowski | (__) | 22:53 |
| jacekowski | (oo) | 22:53 |
| jacekowski | /------\/ | 22:53 |
| jacekowski | / | || | 22:53 |
| jacekowski | * /\---/\ | 22:53 |
| jacekowski | ~~ ~~ | 22:53 |
| jacekowski | ...."Have you mooed today?"... | 22:54 |
| Appiah | goat! | 22:54 |
| pupnik | Janet Reno! | 22:54 |
| pupnik | now if you squint your eyes, you see a bunch of noise text, and two or three animals | 22:55 |
| pupnik | how would you program a computer to see the animals? | 22:55 |
| johnsq | the poor people with proportional font | 22:55 |
| pupnik | not my fault they are stupid | 22:56 |
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| pupnik | there is a kind of 'energy' created by the animal shapes | 22:57 |
| pupnik | directed - linear | 22:57 |
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| merlin1991 | hm the n900 is a pretty good bookmark to put into the book when you have to google some crazy thing you just read | 23:03 |
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| wmarone | bit thick for a bookmark | 23:04 |
| merlin1991 | well I don't close the book, I just use the n900 to keep the page open :D | 23:04 |
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| thp | yay! new maemo.org bugzilla design :) | 23:07 |
| johnsq | thats make not less bugs | 23:07 |
| merlin1991 | was wo? | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik: fuckoff ascii gfx on proportional fontset. please don't spam chan | 23:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | jacekowski: same applies | 23:08 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer51: overall Signal to noise is at a relatively comfortable level | 23:08 |
| pupnik | my post was to encourage AI research | 23:09 |
| thp | johnsq: but it makes browsing and fixing bugs more fun ;) | 23:09 |
| pupnik | i'm sorry you aren't smart enough to solve the puzzle | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik: I givema fuck | 23:10 |
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| pupnik | right, you can't be interested in everything on the planet | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | beware, I'm grumpy | 23:10 |
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| pupnik | i didn't want to make a habit of it | 23:11 |
| pupnik | just to illustrate something | 23:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | k, me off again | 23:12 |
| pupnik | cheers | 23:12 |
| pupnik | all this talk of 'next generation' ... blah is useless | 23:13 |
| pupnik | if 'meego' is "click" "swipe" | 23:13 |
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| Venemo | bye guys | 23:14 |
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| Venemo | have a nice evening | 23:14 |
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| alterego | Heh | 23:15 |
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| MohammadAG | why all the hatred on the channel? | 23:16 |
| Afteris | Hello people! i have question how to make front camera work normaly? (without every time calling video police chat) | 23:16 |
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| Afteris | no geek's here? :) | 23:19 |
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| thp | http://thp.io/2010/maemo/funkytown.png | 23:20 |
| Afteris | Hello people! i have question how to make front camera work normaly? (without every time calling video chat) | 23:20 |
| thp | (we can use pango markup in window titles.. whoohoo!) -> http://thp.io/2010/maemo/funkytown.py | 23:20 |
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| fck | any help amigos? | 23:22 |
| fck | tovarishchi, koledzy, draugai, froinde | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | fck: stop talking elbish | 23:24 |
| fck | sorry, front camera working on nervs | 23:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | also repeating posts after 4min won't help | 23:25 |
| fck | and im working on yours :) don't blame me ;) any help? | 23:25 |
| fck | maybe hint where i should look? | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | afteris, er fck define 'front' | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | define normal | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what's the problem | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ? | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~question | 23:28 |
| infobot | from memory, question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | 23:28 |
| fck | front camera | 23:29 |
| fck | i post before | 23:30 |
| fck | Afteris> Hello people! i have question how to make front camera work normaly? (without every time calling video police chat) | 23:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | front camera worked normally ever since | 23:31 |
| fck | very dark :/ | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | AHAAAA | 23:31 |
| fck | i try with mirror app, also then console? mplayer tv:// device/dev/video1 | 23:32 |
| fck | it shows back camera | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmmm | 23:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | video1 and video0 are mutually exclusive. There are magic incantations using gstreamer to get amazing results. Ask SpeedEvil | 23:36 |
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| fck | thanks! i try | 23:37 |
| alterego | amazing results? | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes | 23:38 |
| alterego | Elaborate? | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil was first to come up with nightmode video | 23:39 |
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| alterego | Oh cool | 23:39 |
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| * MohammadAG heads to bed | 23:40 | |
| MohammadAG | night :) | 23:40 |
| alterego | Messing with gstreamer was the first thing I did when I got the N900, had it streaming video to my laptop and stuff | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | night MohammadAG | 23:40 |
| alterego | g'night MohammadAG | 23:40 |
| alterego | What's the better battery usage recording app? | 23:41 |
| alterego | Wanna test the power consumption of my app. | 23:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | bq27200.sh | 23:41 |
| alterego | Heh, Does it lo | 23:42 |
| alterego | log to file? | 23:42 |
| alterego | Can't remember | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bq27200.sh >logfile | 23:45 |
| alterego | Cool | 23:45 |
| alterego | I just remember using it in console with the live update | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | google for jrbme, sorry I don't have the proper links here | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also: | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~batteryfaq | 23:49 |
| infobot | methinks batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers | 23:49 |
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| pupnik | this is the greatest collection of people on the net | 23:51 |
| pupnik | right here | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | haha | 23:51 |
| pupnik | you're included in that | 23:52 |
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| pupnik | don't insult yourself | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | smells like sarcasm | 23:52 |
| pupnik | it's kind of interesting to watch your skin turn into an old person's | 23:53 |
| pupnik | and kind of depressing we give half our money to parasites who kill people | 23:53 |
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| pupnik | buy some knives, and sharpen them on both sides | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik: getting metaphoric? | 23:54 |
| pupnik | best encoding there is | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | blah | 23:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I prefer XXX speech | 23:55 |
| pupnik | meh | 23:55 |
| pupnik | i think 'badness' is a great negative marketing campaign for 2011 | 23:55 |
| pupnik | we can make this TSA thing spread | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | more clear | 23:56 |
| pupnik | proudly advertise software freedom | 23:56 |
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| pupnik | these 7th grade rejects do not determine what we may transmit | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | rebusrebusrebus | 23:57 |
| pupnik | they are literally the stupid people | 23:57 |
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| pupnik | the high-school bully model is all you need for human society DocScrutinizer51 | 23:57 |
| Choom | people don't care about "badness" | 23:58 |
| Choom | they admit and excuse themselves with "weakness" | 23:58 |
| Choom | see apple's example | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fsck whomcares human society? | 23:59 |
| pupnik | Choom: ok lets get concrete | 23:59 |
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| Choom | now mtter how crappy or limited their products are, the fanboys will continue to buy them | 23:59 |
| Choom | no* | 23:59 |
| Choom | matter* | 23:59 |
| pupnik | Choom: yes, the fanbboys bought the lie that IRAW had WMDs and was a DANGER to USA | 23:59 |
| pupnik | i got banned from a lot of places for showing how that was a lie | 23:59 |
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