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| DocScrutinizer | err, what's the syntax for the "else" aka catch-all case in a c switch(){...}? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ieatlint | default: | 00:01 |
| ieatlint | switch( test ) { case N: ;; break; default: ;; } | 00:01 |
| hardaker | and it works in C++ too ;-) | 00:01 |
| javispedro | GAN900: but I would wish he was right. That's one thing I wanted to avoid on my term... | 00:02 |
| javispedro | *i'd | 00:02 |
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| javispedro | seriously, are TV networks on other countries also so incompetent when it comes to DVB-T's EPG? | 00:06 |
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| javispedro | it's a damn XML file. How can it be so hard to NOT mess it up. | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thanks for default :-) was puzzled with "*" and else: | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw s/;; break;/; break;;/ | 00:09 |
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| javispedro | too much bash. | 00:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, even a single ; is more than enough | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 00:10 |
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| gomiam | oisblAcHs5Y.BvVsyD.virtual | 00:14 |
| pronto | i agree | 00:14 |
| mcunix | I can recover a damaged microSD? | 00:15 |
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| pronto | that all depends: how damaged is it, are you willing to spend money?if so how much? | 00:15 |
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| mcunix | pronto: not what I was wondering if you could do it and I thought it was a pc formatting problem .. that only tells me that the cell is damaged, so I wonder if | 00:18 |
| mcunix | Ascolta | 00:18 |
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| lardman | urgh, the wonders of pyqt docs | 00:19 |
| lardman | and add to that the wonders of dbus docs | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | mcunix: basically not. If it's actually got media errors, and not just filesystem problems. | 00:19 |
| mcunix | SpeedEvil: ok, then is better buy a new microSD:-( | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | mcunix: have you tried reformatting it? | 00:21 |
| mcunix | SpeedEvil: more and more but i don't know..i tried fat and ntfs but anything..what you think?I need to try another type of extension? | 00:22 |
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| orospakr | The search facility of the Application Manager in Maemo 5 appears to only search descriptions, not package names. | 00:24 |
| orospakr | that's a bit of a problem. | 00:24 |
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| orospakr | ah well. sshed in and ran apt-get manually. :) | 00:25 |
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| ptl | Hello all | 00:26 |
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| ptl | I'd like some help. My N900 stopped booting, I tried flashing it and most times it stops at "Programming CMT...", then some random percentage, then it fails. Sometime the flashing works. But it doesn't pass that first white Nokia Logo screen, it never gets anywhere. Is there a way for me to backup MyDocs before I flash with eMMC? | 00:27 |
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| ZogG | Khertan, hey, aren't you at honey moon? | 00:31 |
| ptl | hey SpeedEvil, I'm sure you can answer that :P I've tried the wiki first, of course | 00:31 |
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| wmarone | damnit | 00:34 |
| * wmarone doesn't enjoy 30s waits between songs | 00:34 | |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: what did it do when booting | 00:34 |
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| ptl | SpeedEvil: it hangs at the Nokia white logo screen for almost one minute, then it turns off for a few minutes, then it turns on again, then it hangs at the Nokia white logo again. | 00:37 |
| ptl | I'd like at least some way to access the contents of my eMMC before I try erasing it. :( | 00:37 |
| ptl | even though I don't think it's the eMMC that's preventing the N900 from booting, because the reboot loop when it happens is quite different from that. | 00:38 |
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| * lardman cries | 00:40 | |
| * derf moos. | 00:41 | |
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| VladNistor | ptl, does it mount when you connect it to the pc whil off? | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: yeah - as I understadn it if EMMC dies totally, you get a partially up desktop | 00:42 |
| VladNistor | you could use http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd to access your eMMC | 00:42 |
| VladNistor | there may eb otehr ways | 00:42 |
| lardman | hey derf | 00:42 |
| derf | Hiya lardman. | 00:42 |
| derf | Still keeping busy? | 00:42 |
| lardman | yeah day job is very busy | 00:42 |
| derf | Same here. | 00:43 |
| lardman | new job still going well? | 00:43 |
| lardman | not so new now I guess :) | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: could you check h-e-n ML please? review my "patches" | 00:44 |
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| ptl | VladNistor: it doesn't, is there a way for me to force that? | 00:44 |
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| ptl | VladNistor: I use Ubuntu. | 00:45 |
| ptl | lemme try plug it in. | 00:45 |
| ptl | plugged it in but there isn't even a notice of USB device plugged in dmesg | 00:46 |
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| ptl | VladNistor: I use Ubuntu. | 00:46 |
| ptl | I just plugged it in but there isn't even a notice of USB device plugged in dmesg | 00:46 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: quite bold | 00:47 |
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| javispedro | I do not have the equipment to test right now | 00:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: sorry, not my plan to be bold. Just asking for formal (and maybe semantic) critic on the suggested patches | 00:48 |
| ptl | how do I force the PC to mount the N900 when I connect with the device off? I've never done that, even when it worked. | 00:48 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I do not mean you are bold, but the patches. I worry they will cause breakage everywhere | 00:49 |
| VladNistor-mob | I don't know about the microsd, but that way you can acces your onboard memory | 00:49 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: tap the power button for a very hort time to get it to wake up into act_dead I think | 00:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh, Nokia introduced breakage with line51,52 in musb-core.h - not me ;-) | 00:49 |
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| ptl | SpeedEvil: ok, thanks! where should I read more about this? | 00:50 |
| ptl | VladNistor-mob: thanks for the rescue initrd tip, I'll try it if this fails | 00:50 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: definitely, but wrong+wrong=good enough ;) | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: yes, my big worries | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe you can do a git-grep or whatever you devels usually do, to spot the places where ISP1704_FUNC_CTRL_XCVRSELECT(_SHIFT) is used | 00:51 |
| VladNistor-mob | Ptl, no problem. It just writes a rescue kernel and initrd to ram so there is no change to your data. | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: I'm unure - I haven't really done much research into this, as it doesn't much interst me - I've never used UMS - and my system boots. | 00:52 |
| ptl | I've tapped my power boot whilst the N900 is off but I don't get anything in dmesg yet. :( | 00:53 |
| ptl | *power button | 00:53 |
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| lardman | anyone know about DBus service method signatures? | 00:55 |
| lardman | e.g. does 'ss' mean two arguments of type string? | 00:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'd be more than willing to have a look at it and fix it, if you spot any problematic or questionable occurances | 00:56 |
| derf | lardman: Yes, it's going very well. | 00:57 |
| lardman | cool :) | 00:57 |
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| derf | It is a lot of hours, though. Fortunately, I don't have a life. | 00:57 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I understand -- but I'd need to start it up first, and it's been a while since I last booted a h-e-n kernel | 00:58 |
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| lardman | derf: as long as you're enjoying it that's the thing | 00:58 |
| javispedro | lardman: ss is two strings, yes | 00:58 |
| lardman | javispedro: thanks :) | 00:59 |
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| derf | lardman: Yeah. Wouldn't have it any other way. | 00:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw (hostmode) [2010-10-18 23:34:45] <DocScrutinizer> the bug in line 191 will always set ISP1704_FUNC_CTRL_FULL_SPEED in void musb_force_term(void __iomem *addr, enum musb_term term) | 01:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so quite probably the hostmode POC as published now will not work with non-USB2.0 devices AIUI | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tbh I'm amazed it works with any device/peripheral | 01:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | On an unrelated matter - do 1.5M devices always negotiate art 1.5, and 12 at 12? | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.analog.com/en/interface/digital-isolators/adum3160/products/product.html - off-topic | 01:10 |
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| javispedro | SpeedEvil: supposedly 12 devices can negotiate 1.5 | 01:12 |
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| javispedro | but I doubt nobody cares about it. | 01:12 |
| javispedro | *anybody | 01:12 |
| oshin | I do | 01:13 |
| oshin | what was it? | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen MohammadAG | 01:13 |
| infobot | mohammadag <~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1h 34m 50s ago, saying: 'he died'. | 01:13 |
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| javispedro | rest in peace. | 01:14 |
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| oshin | i wish they fix conversations | 01:15 |
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| * oshin keep refreshing tablets-dev for no reason. | 01:16 | |
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| VladNistor-mob | I wish conversations would stop scrolling back down every time someone says something, can' read back when there's chattin' | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | seen this annoying effect elsewhere | 01:18 |
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| oshin | text messed up badly in it. | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably an inherent property of some type of text representation widget | 01:19 |
| oshin | can't be used in my language. | 01:19 |
| oshin | migrated to pidgin.. | 01:19 |
| * javispedro checks his client | 01:20 | |
| oshin | some devs just have no clue how unicode works. | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, xchat ftw :-) | 01:20 |
| * javispedro nope, no unwanted scrolling down. | 01:20 | |
| VladNistor-mob | I dislike that effect, i like conversation for everything else | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc both HAM logs and location test NMEA raw show this annoying jump-to-bottom | 01:21 |
| * oshin should apply for a maemo job when he still have chance. | 01:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | I'm doubting there are new maemo jobs. | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe I'm wrong. | 01:21 |
| oshin | long time ago.. | 01:22 |
| javispedro | yes there are. they're unpaid, though. | 01:22 |
| oshin | like years | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | muhaha | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | tell me | 01:22 |
| oshin | nokia lab in argentina i think. | 01:22 |
| javispedro | someone has to keep hildon alive! | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | someone has to keep *ME* alive | 01:22 |
| oshin | but can't bare gtk+'s suckiness and refuse a friend's suggestion. | 01:22 |
| oshin | he moved to oracle though. | 01:23 |
| oshin | now i wish they fixed conversation, that stupid app should just have source. | 01:23 |
| * oshin stopped whining it's 5am pardon me | 01:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | oshin: nooooo, Nokia wants to *differentiate* | 01:24 |
| wmarone | heh | 01:24 |
| wmarone | differentiate | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | you MUST NOT fix things like these :-P | 01:24 |
| oshin | heh | 01:24 |
| javispedro | heh, at least they do not want to *integrate* themselves | 01:24 |
| wmarone | yeah, their media player is the only on the market that will dump its entire song library at random! | 01:24 |
| VladNistor-mob | /me would like a fixed conversations :P | 01:25 |
| wmarone | and not refresh it until you reboot | 01:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | don't get me started - that's tracker, my fav foe | 01:25 |
| wmarone | heh | 01:25 |
| javispedro | well, Pr1.3 is going to fix all those problems and cure world hunger, cancer, idiotism, and also prevent the next asteroid impact! | 01:25 |
| wmarone | I remember people bitching constantly about apple's database on the iPod, but I'll be damned if tracker isn't 100% worse and less efficient | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 01:26 |
| oshin | or just release necessary sources so we can fix them ourselves... | 01:26 |
| wmarone | sure | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | wmarone: you just don't get it: "users" _want_ it that way, at least that's what Nokia found out about users | 01:27 |
| VladNistor-mob | Source is allways best if one understands it :) ) | 01:27 |
| wmarone | users want it to be terrible? | 01:27 |
| javispedro | yes! | 01:27 |
| VladNistor-mob | They shuld have asked me... | 01:27 |
| wmarone | I had no idea1 | 01:27 |
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| oshin | after my current proj i'll build a new gui layer with gnustep.. | 01:28 |
| oshin | on meego well.. i guess i will never do it.. | 01:28 |
| oshin | but if i win some lotto i'll start a company for that. | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | is gnustep somewhat related to nextstep? | 01:29 |
| javispedro | in what sense? they do not reuse code. | 01:29 |
| oshin | DocScrutinizer, yes, a clone. | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 01:29 |
| oshin | like cocoa for iphone w/o uikit | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 01:29 |
| oshin | they are working on uikit clone.. but i'd just use appkit... well | 01:30 |
| oshin | uikit sucks. | 01:30 |
| oshin | most things apple did to nextstep were worthless. | 01:30 |
| oshin | lately.. | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, I used nextstep before it was owned by apple | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 01:31 |
| oshin | yeh, it was good at the time. | 01:31 |
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| wmarone | oh and if anyone here happens to have the misfortune of working with Orange Business Services, you have my sympathy | 01:35 |
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| chx | ok so xchat does not have a hildon UI and as such is either too big a font or too small? | 01:45 |
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| kerio | chx: Nokia Sans Semibold 12 | 01:46 |
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| lardman | night chaps | 01:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://qkwv.com/xchat.png | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | my xchat looks like | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | which works for me | 01:49 |
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| chx | what i would love ... is zooming. if it would increase the font size when my nick is mentioned that'd be superb. | 01:51 |
| oshin | i have a few duplicated photos, is that normal? | 01:53 |
| oshin | i wonder if i have bad symlinks somewhere so all new taken photos are dupped | 01:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | chx: yes. That would be nice - but the window only supports one text style | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | chx: It does highlight the nick in a different colour | 02:14 |
| pupnik | well | 02:14 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: what do you care about? | 02:15 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders. | 02:16 | |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Cheese. | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Also good banannas. | 02:16 |
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| pupnik | let's try to do something in life | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Feed-in-tarrifs exclusionary policy on DIY solar cells. | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Solar panels. | 02:17 |
| pupnik | maybe you just spew stupid into irc | 02:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | If I could get feed-in-tarrif rates on my self-constructed solar panels, then they would pay back in around 9 months. | 02:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | And lead to me putting up maybe 4Kwp of panels. | 02:19 |
| ieatlint | heh, apparently if an update for qtcreator fails, it just self destructs | 02:22 |
| ieatlint | the update tool downloaded it, said there was a hash error... i hit retry, same deal, and then pressing cancel appears to have removed qtcreator from my system | 02:22 |
| ieatlint | but qtdesigner and qtlinguist are still there, as is the sdk maintenance tool... | 02:23 |
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| oshin | i suck at math and so i installed calculus and uh | 02:29 |
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| sdfsdfs | hey guys, anyone use evopedia? | 02:30 |
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| sdfsdfs | It doesn't recognize the dump I downloaded, and I don't understand why | 02:30 |
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| sdfsdfs | helooooooo | 02:31 |
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| chx | SpeedEvil: the 'window' ? | 02:32 |
| sdfsdfs | can I not be heard via this? | 02:34 |
| sdfsdfs | webchat.freenode.net | 02:34 |
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| oshin | sdfsdfs, well... i can't read your name though. | 02:36 |
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| oshin | sound more like soda now | 02:36 |
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| oshin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVI-P3f2RPI | 02:37 |
| ninethree1 | so | 02:37 |
| ninethree1 | oshin, is that better | 02:37 |
| ninethree1 | evopedia.... | 02:37 |
| ninethree1 | why can't it read my dump? | 02:37 |
| ninethree1 | says no metadata | 02:37 |
| ninethree1 | but I have everything there... all 11gb, and a metadata.txt file | 02:37 |
| oshin | no idea :/ | 02:38 |
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| ninethree1 | how could I find out? | 02:39 |
| ninethree1 | I mean i open the folder and evopedia shows no files in it | 02:39 |
| ninethree1 | it is on a 16gb microsd | 02:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | chx: The textfield widget does not as I understand it support more than one font. | 02:41 |
| * wmarone chuckles as microb dies again | 02:43 | |
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| infobot | Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) | 02:54 |
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| javispedro | ~botsnack | 02:54 |
| infobot | :), javispedro | 02:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | wtf? | 02:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~status | 02:59 |
| infobot | Since Thu Sep 16 09:58:38 2010, there have been 242 modifications, 3051 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 1543 commands. I have been awake for 32d 14h 29s this session, and currently reference 117360 factoids. I'm using about 38392 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 10926.53/264.58 child 0/0 | 02:59 |
| pupnik | 700 people registered for meego conference | 03:01 |
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| javispedro | pupnik: you? | 03:02 |
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| pupnik | javispedro: i give you the best shit in your life | 03:02 |
| javispedro | I was asking whether you're coming | 03:03 |
| pupnik | stop by and hear my speakers | 03:03 |
| pupnik | why | 03:03 |
| javispedro | curiosity. also, I do plan to come. | 03:03 |
| pupnik | i'm in paradise, with little money | 03:03 |
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| javispedro | sdd: detected capacity change from 8168931328 to 0 | 03:28 |
| javispedro | this can't be good. | 03:28 |
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| pupnik | javispedro | 03:32 |
| pupnik | when real life intrudes on yhour world | 03:32 |
| pupnik | i will laff | 03:32 |
| pupnik | nn | 03:32 |
| javispedro | oh, it will. | 03:33 |
| ieatlint | javispedro: haha | 03:34 |
| ieatlint | hopefully that's a system disk | 03:34 |
| javispedro | it was the n900 sd card, connected via usb :S | 03:34 |
| javispedro | (mass storage) | 03:34 |
| ieatlint | ah, hah, well you can be reasonably sure the data is all there | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ass rage mode? | 03:35 |
| javispedro | I assume some misconnection in a peculiarly bad timing. | 03:36 |
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| pupnik | javispedro: I GOT GOOD MUSIC | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: dmesg | 03:36 |
| ieatlint | i've been staring at a progress bar for over an hour :( | 03:36 |
| javispedro | n900 one says nothing | 03:36 |
| javispedro | don't want to kill connection atm since I'm copying some stuff to emmc and will take a while | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 03:37 |
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| ieatlint | download speed where i am right now is restricted to 50KBps, and i apparently need to redownload the nokia sdk to fix the fucked update :( | 03:37 |
| javispedro | # file -s /dev/sdd | 03:37 |
| javispedro | /dev/sdd: writable, no read permission | 03:37 |
| javispedro | lol | 03:37 |
| ieatlint | lol | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | muhaha | 03:37 |
| ieatlint | WOM | 03:37 |
| ieatlint | unless your user doesn't have permission to read sdd? | 03:38 |
| javispedro | root shell | 03:38 |
| pupnik | DON'T FOLLOW NAVIGATION IN YOUR HEAD | 03:38 |
| ieatlint | nice then | 03:38 |
| javispedro | kernel has killed all partitions also (sdd1, sdd2, ...) | 03:38 |
| javispedro | I wonder why such a thing is even implemented? | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | IO error? umount (magnet)? | 03:39 |
| javispedro | are there are disks out there that "change capacity" without "media removal" events? =) | 03:39 |
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| ieatlint | maybe there was a media removal event | 03:40 |
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| ieatlint | the sd card is considered a removable media type | 03:41 |
| javispedro | full host dmesg: http://maemo.pastebin.com/9Fh0FQRB | 03:42 |
| javispedro | btrfs fs is meego (on SD) | 03:42 |
| javispedro | (don't waste your time on this though, I'm sure it's just one of those "randomly flipped bits triggered weirdo behaviour") | 03:43 |
| ieatlint | yeah, just a curiosity | 03:44 |
| pupnik | i have one of the best stereos in germany | 03:48 |
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| ninethree1 | pupnik, which stereo? | 04:08 |
| pupnik | VMPS RM2 | 04:09 |
| pupnik | mitsutaka: so good | 04:09 |
| pupnik | if you love hi-fi, i have one of the best in germany | 04:10 |
| ninethree1 | what like thousands of dollars? | 04:10 |
| ninethree1 | audiophile stuffz | 04:10 |
| pupnik | yes | 04:10 |
| ninethree1 | might as well get speaker monitors | 04:10 |
| ninethree1 | 300$ each - 5 for surround | 04:10 |
| ninethree1 | and dual subs | 04:10 |
| ninethree1 | m-audio's | 04:10 |
| ninethree1 | any pics of your rig? | 04:11 |
| pupnik | vmps | 04:11 |
| ninethree1 | and waht do you listen to on there? | 04:11 |
| pupnik | ninethree1: i am a music producer with a lot of credits | 04:11 |
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| ninethree1 | credits? | 04:12 |
| ninethree1 | what kind of music? | 04:12 |
| ninethree1 | I make electronic | 04:12 |
| ninethree1 | using NI and ableton live... you've any cool libraries? | 04:12 |
| pupnik | i am on 6 million cds | 04:12 |
| ninethree1 | I'm trying to get some better ones | 04:12 |
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| ninethree1 | wow, maybe you could help me out then, with some libraries | 04:13 |
| pupnik | j | 04:13 |
| pupnik | i never made mone | 04:13 |
| pupnik | y | 04:13 |
| ninethree1 | ? | 04:13 |
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| ninethree1 | well, you produce electronically or what? | 04:13 |
| ninethree1 | if you do, then you surely have some great libs | 04:14 |
| pupnik | you can hear my 1992-1994 stuff | 04:14 |
| ninethree1 | I mostly use the ones from battery3 | 04:14 |
| pupnik | i'm just an old guy | 04:14 |
| ninethree1 | I don't follow | 04:15 |
| ninethree1 | I'm trying to talk production | 04:15 |
| pupnik | don't do that here | 04:15 |
| ninethree1 | since I'm not on any cds, and you're on 6mil | 04:15 |
| ninethree1 | where | 04:15 |
| ninethree1 | you've aim or msn | 04:15 |
| pupnik | lol | 04:15 |
| pupnik | i just got lucky once in 1993 | 04:15 |
| ninethree1 | well, I'm on cds I've burned myself | 04:15 |
| pupnik | well you go do shit.. and be nice to me | 04:16 |
| pupnik | me old folks | 04:16 |
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| pupnik | you go kick ass | 04:16 |
| ninethree1 | I don't seem nice enough? | 04:17 |
| pupnik | do you have talent? | 04:17 |
| pupnik | did you kick ass in piano competitions? | 04:17 |
| ninethree1 | that's how it works | 04:17 |
| ninethree1 | old folks gotta teach young folks | 04:17 |
| ninethree1 | talent? | 04:17 |
| pupnik | can you play anything on a keyboard? | 04:17 |
| ninethree1 | lol is that the definition of talent; always wondered | 04:17 |
| ninethree1 | I can play well tempered claviar prelude 2 | 04:17 |
| pupnik | here, go drink whiskey | 04:17 |
| pupnik | oh | 04:18 |
| ninethree1 | and half of chopin's revolutionary etude | 04:18 |
| ninethree1 | and a quarter of chopin's ocean etude | 04:18 |
| ninethree1 | but I haven't really touched a piano in 5 years | 04:18 |
| ninethree1 | I used to be in a satriani cover band on guitar, but I haven't touched a guitar in 3.5years | 04:18 |
| ninethree1 | electronic music makes me quit physical instruments! | 04:19 |
| ninethree1 | heh | 04:19 |
| orospakr | What do you guys do for syncing with Thunderbird (or similar things)? I've looked into SyncEvolution, but Funambol (are there other stable free software SyncML servers that work well?) seems like a bit of a beast that I wouldn't mind avoiding if possible. | 04:20 |
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| b-man` | ~lart MohammadAG51 | 04:22 |
| * infobot burns MohammadAG51 to a crisp with a laser | 04:22 | |
| b-man` | LOL | 04:22 |
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| javispedro | ARGHH Gmail is DOWWWN I CAN DO ANY WORK! WORLD IS GOING TO END! well... *looks clock* maybe I could pay my bed a visit instead.. | 04:27 |
| javispedro | ah, Gmail is back up. | 04:27 |
| * javispedro keeps reading useless mails. | 04:27 | |
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| javispedro | aha, someone packaged sdl_net for chinook, diablo, & fremantle. thank him when just-building maemo dosbox 0.74 comes with fake modem & ipx tunneling support | 04:31 |
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| Termana | good morning | 05:20 |
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| vdv | n900 alarm is very useless :( | 07:22 |
| vdv | alarm clock | 07:22 |
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| TermanaN900 | vdv, WORKSFORME | 07:23 |
| vdv | yes, it works, but it lasts too short | 07:28 |
| vdv | if i don't wake up and press snooze then it just stops to alarm | 07:28 |
| TermanaN900 | Mine just sat there and wouldn't shut up until i pressed snooze or ok. Only time I've used it (a couple of days ago) | 07:29 |
| asj | worksforme every morning | 07:30 |
| asj | the buzz from the vibrator is enough to wake me up.... | 07:31 |
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| TermanaN900 | asj, I'm a heavy sleeper :p and I go to bed late so when I need to be awake real early I need more than a vibration :p | 07:34 |
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| asj | TermanaN900: that's what she said ;) | 07:34 |
| asj | err wait | 07:35 |
| TermanaN900 | heh | 07:35 |
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| chx | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HSPA_mobile_phones the N900 is not listed. I/IV/VIII ? | 07:44 |
| asj | that would seem like a silly big list | 07:45 |
| chx | same radio as (one kind of) the Nexus One? | 07:45 |
| chx | it's often most useful | 07:45 |
| chx | 'cos .. see AWS is using 1700 for UL and 2100 for DL | 07:45 |
| chx | therefore if a manufacturer just lists 1700/2100 then it's anyone's guess whether it means I / IV or just the two frequencies of IV is listed. | 07:46 |
| TermanaN900 | chx, same radio? HELL NO. Same frequencies? yes | 07:47 |
| chx | heh | 07:47 |
| chx | why "hell no" ? | 07:47 |
| chx | most importantly, there is no separate N900 for Europe and T-Mobile/Wind? Because then I can sell my E51 as I have a smartphone for Europe too. | 07:48 |
| TermanaN900 | chx, the N900's and Nexus One's radio/modem is completely different | 07:48 |
| chx | I see. | 07:48 |
| TermanaN900 | They just operate on the same frequencies. Except the AT&T Nexus One which is different frequencies | 07:49 |
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| chx | OK, adding the N900 | 07:49 |
| asj | the N900 does 2100mhz umts, the 1700/2100 aws is in addition | 07:49 |
| TermanaN900 | asj, I think you mean 900/1700 | 07:50 |
| asj | TermanaN900: I was not clear. AWS uses frequencies in both 1700 and 2100, but not the same frequencies as plain old 2100mhz umts | 07:51 |
| chx | whoever came up with this should be shot :P | 07:52 |
| ds3 | 7 | 07:52 |
| TermanaN900 | ds3 - ate 9 | 07:54 |
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| ds3 | *BuRP* | 07:56 |
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| beford | Hey, I am trying qtirreco but it does not seem to work with my receiver and when I try to see the ir light using a camera and pressing a button nothing seems to appear :/ | 07:58 |
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| slonopotamus | Kathy is _he_? | 08:09 |
| DangerMaus_ | ? | 08:10 |
| DangerMaus_ | damn i grew a tail again | 08:10 |
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| slonopotamus | http://maemo.org/community/council/state_of_maemo-q32010-1/ search for "He reads the community mailing lists" | 08:11 |
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| slonopotamus | okay, next sentence says "she" | 08:12 |
| beford | maybe is both | 08:12 |
| DangerMaus | lol haha | 08:12 |
| beford | :| | 08:12 |
| DangerMaus | he/she | 08:12 |
| slonopotamus | can someone ban Roger Sperberg from planet maemo, btw? | 08:13 |
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| * MohammadAG51 broke his busybox haha | 08:37 | |
| MohammadAG51 | <3 xchat | 08:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | i couldn't start terminal but... | 08:38 |
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| MohammadAG51 | /exec echo "apt-get install busybox" | root | 08:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | worked xD | 08:38 |
| pronto | o_o | 08:39 |
| pronto | i should take note of that one | 08:39 |
| pronto | ...how did you break busy box to begin with | 08:39 |
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| MohammadAG51 | replaced it with a different build | 08:40 |
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| Khertan | Hi all ! | 08:40 |
| Khertan | ZogG, it was just a 3 days honeymoon, not the real one, the real longer honeymoon moon will be in few months :) | 08:41 |
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| Corsac | Khertan: congrats! | 08:45 |
| Khertan | thx | 08:45 |
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| * RST38h chuckles at the Stellarium thread | 08:55 | |
| RST38h | If you want to make money from your work, don't fucking GPL it. | 08:56 |
| RST38h | If you already GPLed, don't act silly trying to make money from it. | 08:56 |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: but... it's ok to try to make money from it. It's usually not too successful, but doesn't hurt to try... | 09:11 |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: also, URL or it didn't happen | 09:11 |
| summel | :S so much spam on the maemo planet | 09:12 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hi all | 09:25 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/55192-stellarium/page__view__findpost__p__918622 | 10:22 |
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| johnx | summel, yeah, but it's basically that one guy | 10:35 |
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| RST38h | hello johnx | 10:36 |
| johnx | RST38h, alternatively: if you're going to walk the thin line between the GPL and selling it commercially, then you need to figure that out ahead of time, not after the fact | 10:36 |
| summel | johnx: still i find it kind of annoying reading bad posts with no real content and just the message "buy more N900s they are great" | 10:36 |
| johnx | evenin' RST38h | 10:36 |
| summel | especially on planet maemo where most readers already have an N900 i guess | 10:37 |
| johnx | summel, once they lock this guy out it should all stop, thankfully | 10:37 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Basically, do not GPL your work unless you are absolutely sure it has no commercial value | 10:37 |
| RST38h | BTW, is this planet maemo guy ill or something? | 10:37 |
| RST38h | Or is it a really sophisticated form of trolling? =) | 10:38 |
| johnx | the mysql guys seemed to manage ok | 10:38 |
| RST38h | johnx: afaik, no | 10:38 |
| RobbieThe1st | RST38h: Just out of curiosity, couldn't you post your GPL product for sale... Remembering that you A, have to provide code, and B, that anyone can take your code and provide it free themselves? | 10:38 |
| johnx | I mean, it's not impossible to dual license *if you plan it from the start very carefully* | 10:38 |
| RST38h | Robbie: You can | 10:38 |
| johnx | but it's very hard | 10:38 |
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| RST38h | Robbie: Does not mean anyone will buy it, with free version being available | 10:39 |
| johnx | hmm, actually I wonder about the sales stats for 'xchat for windows' | 10:39 |
| RST38h | Robbie: But I am sure you can simply google for the topic and get all the opinion and information you need | 10:39 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Yea, I was just checking | 10:39 |
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| Myrtti | I kinda like the way X-chat people have done things | 10:40 |
| Myrtti | of course there is a free version of Windows X-chat available, but on the official site the Windows binary is something you have to pay for | 10:40 |
| * RST38h has done that before | 10:41 | |
| RST38h | Usually lasts until the first Chinese guy takes your source code and compiles a free binary | 10:41 |
| RobbieThe1st | I don't know - I think you'd get some takers, provided the "official" version's in a better repo, and support is provided. Sure, you can compile it from source yourself, but a number of people will just pay the fee to get a "safe", bug-free product | 10:41 |
| Myrtti | *sigh* my wallet feels like a slot machine today | 10:42 |
| RST38h | Then, independently on how half-baked that binary is, you get a fecal bombardment from the lemmings reporting how BAD your (pirated) product is in comparison with the free version | 10:42 |
| RobbieThe1st | But, doesn't that sort of happen with all products, no matter what you do? | 10:43 |
| RST38h | Well, it does not happen with the products for which the source code is not publicly available. | 10:43 |
| RobbieThe1st | Like the guys who pirate some commertial software, then complain when it doesn't work right, and or ask for support | 10:43 |
| RST38h | Once again, every product can get pirated, but you should not make it uber easy by publishing yoru source code for free :) | 10:44 |
| RST38h | And if you do publish your source code for free, do not expect to make money on the product. | 10:44 |
| kerio | huh? why not? | 10:45 |
| RobbieThe1st | Either that, or try and hope some percentage of people are willing to donate money to help you out | 10:45 |
| kerio | just look at redhat | 10:45 |
| RST38h | Don't | 10:45 |
| RST38h | Because none will. | 10:45 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, look at all the other commercial linux distros that failed | 10:46 |
| RobbieThe1st | I'd offer Spore by EA as a better example. It's got the best copy-protection on the market at the time. It was available (cracked), before it reached the market legally. No source code was availaible. | 10:46 |
| * RST38h isn't sure what Robbie is talking about | 10:47 | |
| johnx | RST38h, I think he's talking about people pirating mold :) | 10:47 |
| RST38h | A Spore has been a closed-source project to begin with, it is outside of the scope for this particular discussion | 10:47 |
| RST38h | johnx: Are they using mold to get high or what? =) | 10:48 |
| RobbieThe1st | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_(2008_video_game)#Controversy | 10:48 |
| johnx | RST38h, EA? nah, I think it's some substance the execs naturally produce ... | 10:48 |
| johnx | though I have heard that you'd have to be high to work there ... | 10:48 |
| RobbieThe1st | What I'm saying is that, even putting your code under the strictest license available, with the best DRM to protect it... you are -still- going to have a huge amount of piracy. | 10:49 |
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| johnx | uhm, but RobbieThe1st does have a point: Your stuff will get pirated whether there is source code or not | 10:49 |
| RST38h | johnx: Oh! What orifice is it coming out of? | 10:49 |
| johnx | but if it's open source, it's not being pirated, it's just someone providing a better build, and if their website is half as good as yours, their build will be more popular | 10:50 |
| RST38h | johnx: Of course. But then, nobody (but lawyers) is trying for 100% protection any more. It just has to be good enough. | 10:50 |
| RST38h | johnx: Usually a worse build, but free | 10:50 |
| RobbieThe1st | And what I'm saying is that -nothing- on the market is "good enough", unless it's essentially a cloud-interactive bit of software. | 10:50 |
| RST38h | johnx: Sometimes a better one, eventually, but at that point they usually change the name of the software | 10:51 |
| johnx | RST38h, if your build system is worth anything, I'd hope 'your build' should be reproducible by just about anyone, but I suppose that makes an assumption ;) | 10:51 |
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| RST38h | Robbie: Of course there are things on the market that provide good enough protection | 10:51 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Like? | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Robbie: Do you want me to give you some examples? | 10:51 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, and have you noticed that's the way things are going? | 10:51 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yes, I would | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Robbie: Sony PSP starting with firmware 5.04 | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Robbie: And yes, I would appreciate if you googled for information before blurting things out =) | 10:52 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Oh, there are several different ways to do it | 10:52 |
| RobbieThe1st | ... Sony PSP is an inherently closed device, and not at all relevent to what we are talking about. I'm talking a PC, or Maemo device, which is what we are developing for | 10:52 |
| RST38h | johnx: A popular one is "here is the linux source code, but the windows port is prorpietary" | 10:52 |
| RST38h | johnx: And this approach does not work either, in case you wonder :) | 10:53 |
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| johnx | RST38h, yeah ;) turns out there are windows programmers too :P | 10:53 |
| RST38h | Robbie: Any contemporary PC game that requires online registration. | 10:53 |
| johnx | for example: haven't heard whether steam has been 'hacked' or not | 10:53 |
| RST38h | Robbie: And I do have to warn you that I have had this pro/anti piracy chat many times over the past years, so there is nothing you can surprise me with :) | 10:53 |
| johnx | but that's the other part of the spectrum: 'providing good enough protection and a genuinely worthwhile distribution system' | 10:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: Well, maybe not very good windows programmers, but "free" beats "good" most of the time | 10:54 |
| RobbieThe1st | johnx: I think that HL2 etc probably are available cracked, but a program like TF2, which is online... you wouldn't gain anything by cracking it. | 10:54 |
| johnx | RST38h, more so in some demographics than others, but yeah | 10:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: Exactly ;) | 10:54 |
| johnx | IRCers and people who like emulators: hard market | 10:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: More generally: kids. | 10:55 |
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| johnx | professional graphics artists who are actually making a living: not quite as hard | 10:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: It is determined by age way more than by a certain genre | 10:55 |
| johnx | RST38h, age and whether the program can be expensed ;) | 10:56 |
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| RST38h | johnx: People who are already making money have both the disposable income and understanding of what it takes to earn it | 10:56 |
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| RobbieThe1st | My point is that, if there's enough demand for something, it'll be cracked if your userbase is acceptable to such things. Adding protection won't help; the best - only- way of "solving the problem" is to get a userbase who believes in paying the author. | 10:56 |
| johnx | RST38h, and the fear of being sued and losing their means of production | 10:56 |
| RST38h | johnx: I doubt that plays a ig enough role :) | 10:57 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:57 |
| RST38h | johnx: We probably both know that the anti-piracy laws are largely unenforceable | 10:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | And yes, someone who has money to actually purchase such things and doesn't have the hours on hand to pirate/build it themselves will probably spend the money. | 10:57 |
| RST38h | johnx: I.e. you probably CAN enforce them, at the cost of turning the whole society into a surveillance state | 10:57 |
| RST38h | johnx: Which, I am sure, we will all end up with, but not right away :) | 10:58 |
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| johnx | RobbieThe1st, so effectively you're saying "There are whole classes of software that you shouldn't even try to make money on" | 10:58 |
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| johnx | RST38h, I'm liking Greenland more and more these days :) | 10:59 |
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| RobbieThe1st | What I'm saying is that you should expect "piracy", whether you A, release your source, B, just release a binary, or C, add drm to it for "protection". | 10:59 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Either that, or produce a product that can't be effectively pirated. Say, sell the data-source, give away the software. Sell the online multiplayer subscription, give away the game. | 11:00 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, great. we're at the same conclusion. the question is: can you reduce piracy by N while only spending M on DRM (where M < N) | 11:00 |
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| RST38h | Robbie: Should I simply summarize what you are trying to say? | 11:01 |
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| johnx | and the answer seems to be "yes, if you don't totally cock it up" | 11:01 |
| RST38h | I mean, to save traffic? | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | OOo | 11:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vs StarOffice | 11:01 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, OpenOffice.org? | 11:01 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, LibreOffice | 11:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's no problem in having a commercial plus a GPL version of *YOUR* code concurrently | 11:02 |
| RobbieThe1st | That too | 11:02 |
| RST38h | Doc: There is | 11:02 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, not from a legal sense. just from an economic sense | 11:03 |
| RST38h | Doc: BTW, GPL does not say you cannot SELL the source code, it just says you have to make it available | 11:03 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, anyways, does that sound about fair? | 11:03 |
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| RobbieThe1st | johnx: Yes, I agree. I'm also saying though - based on my readings of /., which are biased I suppose - that DRM usually costs more than it protects. | 11:04 |
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| RST38h | It does not | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: no, doesn't apply for Original Author. He always holds the full copyright and can develop further on a changed licence model | 11:04 |
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| RST38h | Slashdotters are a very special bunch, not all they would like to believe is true | 11:04 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, err... i actually I believe it does say you have to provide the source for the binary for free or for a fair price for the distrubution | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | he must not include other original authors' work though | 11:04 |
| RST38h | Termana: For the fair price, yes | 11:04 |
| RobbieThe1st | And, it can often force legit, paying customers to piracy if the restrictions are too severe. | 11:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | in the n900 I have a contact with 2 numbers. When I get an SMS I can't tell which number the used, but the reply goes automatically to the right number, but then if I want to send it to the other number I can not identify it from the menu selections as it is not shown :( Any clues anyone? | 11:04 |
| RST38h | Robbie: Ok, to summarize and save you some typing | 11:05 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, example: xbox 360 and PS3. I would say their DRM was largely successful over a long period of time | 11:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | They are closed platforms though | 11:05 |
| TermanaN900 | RobbieThe1st, that means nothing | 11:05 |
| RST38h | Robbie: You are suggesting that, as the piracy happens anyway, it makes no sense to protect software from it, and the best protection is to release the software for free | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | GPL applies for *other author's code* - not for your own generic code | 11:05 |
| RST38h | Robbie: Have I summarized your point of view correctly and fully? | 11:05 |
| johnx | anyways, you guys have fun. 'night all | 11:05 |
| RST38h | g'night johnx | 11:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | I'm saying that selling your code is fine. Releasing your source is better, IMHO. Adding DRM just causes issues, most of the time. | 11:06 |
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| RST38h | Ok | 11:06 |
| RST38h | Robbie: May I ask your age? (sorry) | 11:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | 19, why? | 11:07 |
| RST38h | Robbie: We should have this same conversation in 10 years. | 11:07 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Also, note that I do not pirate any software, and haven't ever. | 11:07 |
| RST38h | Robbie: Yes, I know | 11:07 |
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| RST38h | Robbie: Still, 10 years, and then (if we are both still alive of course) we talk again | 11:08 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yes, I suppose, though I'm not sure my view will change, not being a professional developer. | 11:08 |
| RobbieThe1st | But I get your point | 11:09 |
| RST38h | Prolly will, usually does. | 11:09 |
| TermanaN900 | Here's the real kicker, finding how to sell something that has numerous copyright holders and is GPL (eg. the linux kernel or a linux distro). | 11:09 |
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| RST38h | Not that you will start advocating DRM but you will see why copyright protection is needed | 11:09 |
| TermanaN900 | Without providing proprietart extentions | 11:09 |
| RST38h | Termana: You can't. | 11:10 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Oh, I understand copyright protection, and am OK with it(some of the limits, however...). I really -appreciate- it when people release their code however, even if I have to purchase the product to get the code. | 11:10 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, and here i was thinking you would unveal some master business plan and we could split profits 50/50 | 11:11 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, now I just have spoiled fun. Thanks | 11:11 |
| TermanaN900 | :p | 11:11 |
| RST38h | Hehe | 11:11 |
| RobbieThe1st | TermanaN900: Can't you sell disks, physical media, and or high-speed downloads? That is, in addition to support? | 11:11 |
| derf | I have this great plan. Let's sell all of the things that aren't the code. | 11:11 |
| derf | We can call our business "RedHat". | 11:12 |
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| derf | If it's not already taken. | 11:12 |
| RST38h | derf: Redhat sells liability | 11:12 |
| RST38h | Not software | 11:12 |
| TermanaN900 | RobbieThe1st, yeah, Canonical is being real profitible with that. | 11:12 |
| TermanaN900 | Not. | 11:12 |
| derf | RST38h: That is one of "the things that aren't the code". | 11:12 |
| RST38h | yeah | 11:12 |
| Myrtti | well atleast this week the conversation seems to be somewhat Maemo related | 11:12 |
| RobbieThe1st | True, it depends on the size of your organization, obviously | 11:12 |
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| Myrtti | bonus points to you guys | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: sure you can sell linux distro CD | 11:13 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: What? No talk about PR1.3 for >2 hours? | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | for any price people are willing to pay | 11:13 |
| RobbieThe1st | ~pr1.3 | 11:13 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 11:13 |
| RST38h | Doc: Only if someone buys it :) | 11:13 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, so, are you a BSD-license advocate then? | 11:13 |
| TermanaN900 | Over GPL | 11:13 |
| TermanaN900 | :p | 11:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SuSE did this for years | 11:14 |
| jpinx-eeepc | ok - I'll ask a different question ;) What's the methodolgy for getting the phone apps to work over ssh to a laptop? | 11:14 |
| RobbieThe1st | For example, as a one person or "family buisness", I bet you could make some money providing cheap/free copies of Ubuntu, and good support to go with it. If you could find some people willing to use it over Windows. | 11:14 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, they're not doing so hot now, are they? | 11:14 |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: no talking about communist hamburgers and royalist French | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, things changed nowadays | 11:14 |
| johnx | crap. said I was going to sleep ... | 11:15 |
| johnx | we've seen a lot of commercial linux distros tank | 11:15 |
| johnx | waaay more than succeeded | 11:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | johnx: nowadays they sell SLES for 700bucks, incl service | 11:15 |
| juhjokel | RobbieThe1st: Well the thing is, you have to (as default) provide windows support for free for your family anyway, so providing free support for OS you actually know and use is always a "step up" :) | 11:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 11:16 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Come one, you know you like it | 11:16 |
| johnx | Myrtti, open to other topics. suggestions? | 11:16 |
| RobbieThe1st | As my last point, I have to say that market is everything. Trying to market an app to tweens and teens who have a lot of time on their hands and not much money, probably won't do too well. Marketing it to professionals and buisnesses... Probably will do better. | 11:16 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, you didn't answer my license question? | 11:16 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | RobbieThe1st: marketing to the business and prefessionals kids will do even better ;) | 11:17 |
| Myrtti | johnx: I'm fine with the software related discussion | 11:17 |
| RobbieThe1st | jpinx-eeepc: Not sure what you mean, exactly | 11:18 |
| johnx | Myrtti, even though it's the same old 'commercial vs open source'? | 11:18 |
| Myrtti | johnx: last week was a trip to Absurdistan in relation to discussion topics | 11:18 |
| Myrtti | johnx: even that's better than me wondering is everyone on acid | 11:18 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | RobbieThe1st: the way to market a gizmo to a professional family is to hit the kids with it | 11:18 |
| johnx | Myrtti, you worry about us when we're not around? | 11:18 |
| Myrtti | johnx: of course :-) | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~nuke Myrtti | 11:19 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Myrtti ... B☢☢M! | 11:19 | |
| Myrtti | aw. | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | you stole my acid! | 11:19 |
| jacekowski | Myrtti: what is wrong with acid? | 11:19 |
| RobbieThe1st | jpinx-eeepc: Yea, you mean, like Photoshop? | 11:19 |
| TermanaN900 | johnx - I think, strangely, we have some commercial supporters here | 11:19 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Yes, we are all on acid | 11:19 |
| RST38h | Permanently. Anything wrong with that? =) | 11:20 |
| johnx | TermanaN900, I'm a pragmatist | 11:20 |
| jpinx-eeepc | RobbieThe1st: software of any kind | 11:20 |
| RST38h | Termana: Which one? | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, my acid is 01 + coffeine | 11:20 |
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| RST38h | In fact, some of us produce it internally, as part of metabolism | 11:20 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, I asked weather you have a preference for the bsd license model vs the gpl one | 11:20 |
| RST38h | Termana: Ah... I prefer BSD | 11:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a permanent damage from watching Mr Spok at the age of 7 | 11:21 |
| RST38h | Termana: If you are making your software free, make it free | 11:21 |
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| johnx | what I find most interesting is the cultures that grow up around different OSes and how much momentum they have | 11:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, that's for sure. | 11:22 |
| johnx | BeOS had a very pleasant userbase, with kind of a cultural mix of MacOS and Linux users | 11:23 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, shouldn't you be flowering with the android people and their apache licensed OS. Or are you sitting with us GPL folk because BSD land hasn't produced anything for mobile devices like the n900? :p | 11:23 |
| RST38h | ...and died | 11:23 |
| alterego | I used to like the RISC OS community | 11:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | Heh | 11:24 |
| RST38h | Termana: I do not choose people I talk to by the software license they like | 11:24 |
| johnx | RST38h, true. selling a secondary OS is a good way to kill your company (other examples include a dozen commercial linux vendors) | 11:24 |
| RST38h | Termana: Or by the OS they run, for that matter | 11:24 |
| RST38h | johnx: Linux is special, as you cannot effectively sell Linux | 11:25 |
| derf | RST38h loves us for our excellent taste in music. | 11:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, hmm, BeOS and commercial Linux distros had a lot in common I think | 11:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: But BeOS was a good attempt, they even produced hardware at first, offering it to Amiga users | 11:25 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, that's not exactly what i meant | 11:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: BeOS was closed source though | 11:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, I *dearly* wanted a BeBox | 11:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: And initially targeted to their own hardware | 11:26 |
| johnx | but that's a hard market | 11:26 |
| * RST38h has been past platform preference at the time BeBox appeared | 11:26 | |
| johnx | even apple nearly died at more than one point | 11:26 |
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| TermanaN900 | RST38h, i just meant, shouldn't you be supporting something more with that license style over Maemo/MeeGo which is using GPL platforms | 11:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: Their hardware died, they are Intel now | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Termana: I am not supporting anything | 11:27 |
| johnx | RST38h, but their profits didn't. anyways, their previous hardware was just motorola or ibm | 11:27 |
| RST38h | Termana: Except for myself and my family | 11:27 |
| TermanaN900 | heh | 11:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: Motorola made PowerPC | 11:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: Not IBM made, afaik | 11:27 |
| johnx | RST38h, IBM produced it for a while though, IIRC | 11:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: Actually, this is not entirely correct about the profits | 11:28 |
| johnx | apple isn't profitable? do tell :> | 11:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: PowerPC is a continuation of IBM's Power5 arch (used in PC RT afaik) | 11:28 |
| TermanaN900 | RST38h, seriously though, if BSD was available on a hackable mobile device, i would use it :p | 11:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: IBM and Motorola had joint rights to PowerPC arch | 11:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: But, back to Apple's profits | 11:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: They went up when Steve Jobs came back to the company. Apple continued making PowerPC hardware for a while after that, actually making profit | 11:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: So, there wasn't direct correlation between architecture change and profits in that case, at least as far as I know | 11:30 |
| dreamer | is there some tool for managing wireless networks (keys and such) | 11:30 |
| dreamer | like 'network-manager' | 11:30 |
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| johnx | RST38h, I'd to see the graph of profits compared to their architecture switch. I bet the intel switch correlates nicely with a decrease in R&D and a rise in marketshare at the same time | 11:31 |
| johnx | s/I'd to see/I'd love to see | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | hooray for BSD with messybox :-P | 11:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: A moment, let us ask google :) | 11:32 |
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| RST38h | johnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.#Financial_history | 11:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, nice. I found this, let's see if they line up: http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/charts_graphs.html | 11:34 |
| johnx | you can either say that it took time to turn things around, or that switching to intel was a great move | 11:34 |
| RST38h | johnx: the same wiki page has products timeline at the bottom | 11:35 |
| RST38h | johnx: it shows that Apple's profits skyrocketed a year before Intel switch (2005 vs 2006) | 11:35 |
| johnx | then in recent years, the iphone shows up and that muddies the waters | 11:35 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Funny thing is, 2005 timeline does not show anything special, so it must be the iPod popularty epxloding | 11:36 |
| johnx | or marketing | 11:36 |
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| RST38h | Same shit | 11:36 |
| johnx | heh | 11:36 |
| johnx | so the lesson is: don't sell software at all. sell locked down cell phones | 11:37 |
| derf | The iPod was, in fact, what saved Apple. | 11:37 |
| RST38h | Sell the image | 11:37 |
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| RST38h | Image is everything :) | 11:37 |
| derf | Specifically, the iTunes store. | 11:37 |
| johnx | RST38h, sell pictures of cell phones? nah. had to get a new ebay account after that ... | 11:37 |
| RST38h | derf: Seems so, based on the data | 11:37 |
| derf | At least, that's how I remember it. | 11:38 |
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| RST38h | johnx: No, I mean the actual shape/shininess of an item :) | 11:39 |
| johnx | RST38h, forgot the sarcasm tags :P | 11:39 |
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| johnx | remember when sony was doing that whole 'memory stick' thing and trying to convince people to buy all sony stuff so it would all magically work so well together | 11:41 |
| dneary | hey hey | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | morn dneary | 11:42 |
| johnx | hallo dneary | 11:42 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Sony had the image part done right, but they failed on interoperability :) | 11:43 |
| dneary | got some sweet glue gun action going last night | 11:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: Probably hoped for the 3.5" floppy disk miracle to happen again, it did not | 11:43 |
| dneary | The problem with the glue guns I got is they have US plugs | 11:43 |
| johnx | remember how that was in like 2002 or so, when apple was still recovering, and apple just basically took their playbook and ran the same thing 5 years later except did it right? I find that whole situation hilarious | 11:43 |
| dneary | So I'll need people to bring adaptors for Saturday evening's festivities... | 11:43 |
| RST38h | Apple did its own thing, not Sony's | 11:43 |
| RobbieThe1st | Quick question: whats's the locale code for english / USA on the N900? Like, which directory in /opt/maemo/usr/share/locale | 11:44 |
| RST38h | In fact, Jobs has done the same thing he did with Apple before 1985 and at NeXT | 11:44 |
| johnx | RST38h, but sony were kinda trying. they just couldn't get the different parts of their company to actually make things that interoperated | 11:44 |
| dneary | RobbieThe1st, en-US | 11:44 |
| RST38h | Robbie: en-US? | 11:44 |
| dneary | Sorry - en_US | 11:44 |
| RobbieThe1st | Not seeing it... | 11:44 |
| dneary | RobbieThe1st, But all too often, it's left to C | 11:44 |
| RobbieThe1st | On the N900? | 11:45 |
| RST38h | johnx: Too big, too many lawyers, huge media division inside the ocmpany, ready to eat the consumer electronics division alive for producing mp3 players | 11:45 |
| raster | mmmmm big companies | 11:45 |
| RST38h | johnx: Hence all the funny restrictions and quirks (AAC, non standard media, DRM, etc) | 11:45 |
| raster | left hand doesnt know what right hand is doing | 11:45 |
| derf | /usr/share/locale has en_US | 11:45 |
| raster | and middle hand just slaps them all around for shits and giggles | 11:46 |
| raster | :) | 11:46 |
| johnx | RST38h, uhm, that last line just described apple ... | 11:46 |
| dreamer | so, anyone know a network-manager type app? | 11:46 |
| RobbieThe1st | So /opt/maemo/usr/share/local is just extras then? | 11:46 |
| raster | RST38h: hey - they all agreed that memorystick was an awesome bit of technology :) | 11:46 |
| johnx | dreamer, for N900? | 11:46 |
| RST38h | johnx: sony had way more | 11:46 |
| dreamer | or how can I delete the saved user/pw for a wireless network? | 11:46 |
| dreamer | johnx: uhuh | 11:46 |
| johnx | RST38h, more stick, less carrot :) | 11:46 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: It was, compared to CF. If only they'd made it open. | 11:46 |
| johnx | dreamer, what's wrong with the normal network setup stuff? | 11:46 |
| RST38h | raster: should have just found the right use for it by inserting it anally. | 11:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Memory stick came before mmc, or am I confused. | 11:47 |
| dreamer | johnx: I can't edit user/pw | 11:47 |
| dreamer | for default-connections for instance | 11:47 |
| dneary | SpeedEvil, The first one I saw was CF | 11:47 |
| raster | they dont knwo when to give up on ms | 11:47 |
| SpeedEvil | dneary' after CF | 11:47 |
| dneary | But didn't they all arrive more or less at the same time? | 11:47 |
| raster | mmc/sd has long since beaten its pants off | 11:47 |
| johnx | dreamer, settings -> internet connections -> connections | 11:47 |
| dreamer | (first time I logged on here at the uni I used the wrong username, now it's permanently stored as faulty and I can't autoconnect) | 11:47 |
| johnx | or am I confused | 11:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | dneary: no | 11:48 |
| * dneary is no history professor | 11:48 | |
| dreamer | johnx: let me check | 11:48 |
| RST38h | dneary: mmc weas before ms afaik | 11:48 |
| johnx | CF was awesome and anyone who says otherwise is just wrong | 11:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | CF was awesome, but had some issues. | 11:48 |
| SpeedEvil | The connector was hellafragile. | 11:48 |
| dreamer | johnx: ok, check .. sometimes things don't seem straightforward hehe | 11:49 |
| raster | at least cf has big storage and was cheap | 11:49 |
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| johnx | dreamer, no worries :) | 11:49 |
| johnx | raster, and it still has the biggest storage :) | 11:49 |
| RST38h | enjoy: http://news.techdna.co.uk/2010/01/memory-cards-uncovered/ | 11:49 |
| johnx | or is at least tied | 11:49 |
| raster | and u could easily get other cf devices | 11:49 |
| dreamer | johnx: hmmm, no | 11:49 |
| raster | like wifi etc. | 11:49 |
| dreamer | johnx: can only edit the network-name | 11:49 |
| raster | its also much harder to lose cf cards | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: you get some SDIO cards. | 11:49 |
| johnx | dreamer, hit next | 11:49 |
| raster | man i have lost a few sd cards before | 11:49 |
| raster | and micro-sd's just go magically missing all the time | 11:50 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: i know- but much later | 11:50 |
| dreamer | johnx: gah, sorry, not awake yet -_- | 11:50 |
| SpeedEvil | True. | 11:50 |
| RST38h | raster: you are not supposed to remove them :) | 11:50 |
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| johnx | dreamer, it's a *really* weird interface :) | 11:50 |
| raster | RST38h: say that when u have 2 dozen gadgets all of which take them in some form | 11:50 |
| raster | and u are swizzlingthem about | 11:51 |
| raster | with different os images | 11:51 |
| johnx | ahaha. there's a CF-to-SDXC adapter. awesome | 11:51 |
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| raster | in differing states of repair | 11:51 |
| raster | :) | 11:51 |
| johnx | so CF is good up to 2TB I guess :) | 11:51 |
| RST38h | raster: Get one for each gadget! | 11:52 |
| raster | RST38h: i often have more than 1 per gadget | 11:52 |
| raster | thus the problem | 11:52 |
| * RST38h uses this occassion to glare at Stskeeps and wonder if Meego will ever boot without having you to swap the memory card | 11:52 | |
| RST38h | raster: The throw some away! | 11:53 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: Lone Android dev 'almost brought down T-Mobile' | 11:53 |
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| raster | RST38h: losing them did that for me :) | 11:54 |
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| RST38h | raster: Nature took its course at the end! | 11:55 |
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| * raster mourns his lost micro-sd cards | 11:56 | |
| sivang | hehe | 11:58 |
| kerio | it's easy to lose one | 11:58 |
| kerio | try losing a 1gb hd from the 80s | 11:58 |
| sivang | I almost did, when one of my N97 minis got stolen | 11:58 |
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| sivang | well, not mine :) they were on loan | 11:58 |
| sivang | but still- I was lucky to take the sd out | 11:59 |
| * jpinx-eeepc is looking for a good make 16GB micro for the n900 | 11:59 | |
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| RobbieThe1st | And this is why I don't deal with tech support: http://www.xkcd.com/806/ That's what you guys are for! :P | 12:03 |
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| RST38h | raster: At least, you did not have to watch them suffer and search for a place to bury their corpses | 12:04 |
| RST38h | raster: In other words, they died free! =) | 12:05 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: Just do this. http://xkcd.com/627/ | 12:05 |
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| RST38h | [Myrtti: please insert another acid remark here =)] | 12:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | That's what I do first, though it doesn't work quite like that on Linux-based systems. (Believe me, at first, I got -so- frustrated... <_<) | 12:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | Generally, its a matter of Google first, look for buttons/commands later. Then, read the man page(provided it -HAS- a man page - Darn N900).. | 12:07 |
| raster | RST38h: hahahahah | 12:07 |
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| VladNistor-mob | /me says hello | 12:20 |
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| VladNistor-mob | I've checked the kernel power wiki and there is no mention of btrfs. Has anyone used it with maemo? | 12:22 |
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| alterego | Anyone here use BT OpenZone? | 12:30 |
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| VladNistor-mob | /me would like to know why autodisconnect disconnects while irc is on... | 12:33 |
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| Almehdi | is it healthy to "rm /etc/init.d/rcS"? | 12:34 |
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| piotr | I'm not able to execute qmake under debian ia32 inside the scratchbox 2, anyone with the same problem? | 12:34 |
| Almehdi | lol!.. i accidentally did that | 12:34 |
| VladNistor-mob | How can you acidentally do that, lol? :) ) | 12:35 |
| Almehdi | where testing something | 12:35 |
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| Almehdi | got a backup so.. ssh it back :) | 12:36 |
| VladNistor-mob | So, anyone uses btrfs with maemo? | 12:36 |
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| Almehdi | does btrfs work on 2.6.28? | 12:40 |
| VladNistor-mob | That's a good point :-? | 12:40 |
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| Almehdi | i think you need a later kernel for that | 12:41 |
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| Almehdi | like 2.6.35 or something | 12:41 |
| Almehdi | i am no pro at this so someone more knowledgable should answer | 12:42 |
| VladNistor-mob | I'll have to check when i get back in the office, but it got mainline sometime arround .33 methinks | 12:42 |
| Almehdi | ok | 12:42 |
| VladNistor-mob | I never thought about kernel version, thanks for that | 12:42 |
| Almehdi | no problems | 12:42 |
| VladNistor-mob | I'll probably use it in meego :) ) | 12:42 |
| Almehdi | but i am not sure.. so look it up | 12:43 |
| VladNistor-mob | Will do :P | 12:43 |
| Almehdi | :) | 12:43 |
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| VladNistor-mob | Btrfs made it into the kernel in 2.6.29 :( | 12:59 |
| VladNistor-mob | So no joy... | 12:59 |
| Almehdi | ohh.. | 12:59 |
| Almehdi | close | 12:59 |
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| Almehdi | but i think it is still little unstable | 12:59 |
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| VladNistor-mob | And i would probably need something more recent with all the changes... | 12:59 |
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| VladNistor-mob | It's awesome though methinks | 13:00 |
| Almehdi | yeah.. it's the future | 13:01 |
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| Almehdi | so it should work on Meego | 13:01 |
| Almehdi | it still in testing on Ubuntu which is the dist i use | 13:02 |
| VladNistor-mob | It's default if i remember correctly, i read that somewhere | 13:02 |
| Almehdi | it's on 2.6.35 now | 13:02 |
| Almehdi | huh? | 13:02 |
| VladNistor-mob | Yeah, ubuntu doesn't use it, i was referring to maemo | 13:02 |
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| VladNistor-mob | Meego | 13:02 |
| Almehdi | i wanted to try it on an 10.10 alpha | 13:02 |
| Almehdi | It was a no go.. not fully | 13:03 |
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| Almehdi | ahhh | 13:03 |
| Almehdi | hahahaha | 13:03 |
| Almehdi | ok | 13:03 |
| VladNistor-mob | I'm going to try it on my ubuntu if it works | 13:03 |
| Almehdi | it will | 13:03 |
| VladNistor-mob | It should | 13:04 |
| Almehdi | but you need to have a boot partition on ext3 | 13:04 |
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| VladNistor-mob | You need the dvd to install it with the alphas | 13:04 |
| Almehdi | did it for my brothers install | 13:04 |
| VladNistor-mob | I see, didn't know about the need for ext3. Ext4 should also work. | 13:05 |
| Almehdi | i just used a normal livecd.. alpha2 i think | 13:05 |
| Almehdi | maybe.. don't remember | 13:05 |
| VladNistor-mob | I just upgraded through testing alpha1-final, no real issues | 13:06 |
| Almehdi | cool ;) | 13:06 |
| VladNistor-mob | Looking forward to the next alpha for 11.4 | 13:07 |
| Almehdi | yeah.. me too | 13:07 |
| Almehdi | love the 6 month release cycle | 13:07 |
| VladNistor-mob | Yeah, it's appropriate | 13:07 |
| kerio | DEBIAN FTFW | 13:08 |
| VladNistor-mob | I also have a debian sid which stopped working abou 6 months ago, should chroot and upgrade | 13:08 |
| kerio | heh | 13:08 |
| kerio | sid is dangerous | 13:09 |
| Almehdi | i don't remember if it was grub2 or plymouth didn't do btrfs | 13:09 |
| * kerio still uses ext3 | 13:09 | |
| kerio | :< | 13:09 |
| VladNistor-mob | Games worked better than on ubuntu with my intel onboard | 13:09 |
| Almehdi | hehe :) | 13:10 |
| VladNistor-mob | I use ext4 for home | 13:10 |
| Almehdi | saw that drirectx11 might come to wine soon | 13:10 |
| VladNistor-mob | That would be something | 13:11 |
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| Almehdi | especially for those folks who dualboot | 13:12 |
| Almehdi | i am not gaming so much nowadays.. so i am cool with whatever :) | 13:12 |
| VladNistor-mob | Why dualboot if u have dx11? Why dualboot at all lol? | 13:12 |
| Almehdi | yep | 13:12 |
| Almehdi | so it could make some go all the way :) | 13:13 |
| VladNistor-mob | Yeah, i don' either | 13:13 |
| Almehdi | :) | 13:13 |
| VladNistor-mob | Yes, linux needs the desktop, maybe it can get it after it (already) rules mobile :) | 13:15 |
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| Almehdi | hehe yeah | 13:16 |
| Almehdi | the problem is the windows power users | 13:17 |
| Almehdi | i got both my brother and father to change | 13:17 |
| Almehdi | it is working great... | 13:17 |
| VladNistor-mob | There is no such thing :) )) | 13:17 |
| Almehdi | lol! | 13:18 |
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| Almehdi | would like to have some reliable data on how many are using Linux | 13:19 |
| Almehdi | i am sure it is more than 1% | 13:19 |
| VladNistor-mob | Ubuntu had like 30 mil downloads, but that is not reliable | 13:19 |
| Almehdi | yeah | 13:19 |
| VladNistor-mob | We should make a campaign to install smth that phones home | 13:19 |
| VladNistor-mob | Then we could know | 13:20 |
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| Almehdi | yeah... but then you would need to install it manually.. so it would depend on how may who does that :/ | 13:20 |
| Almehdi | i just know... before i was pretty lonely using linux. | 13:21 |
| Almehdi | now i even have a couple in my work doing it | 13:21 |
| VladNistor-mob | You can implement it during update as an option. Or at install. | 13:22 |
| Almehdi | hmm.. maybe there is a way to se how many using updates? | 13:23 |
| Almehdi | that would maybe be more reliable | 13:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | VladNistor-mob: They already have that option as part of the ubuntu install, IIRC | 13:23 |
| Almehdi | they removed it in the 10.10 install.. and it was for packages | 13:24 |
| Almehdi | or did you mean something else? | 13:24 |
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| VladNistor-mob | I dunno, i would have heard if they did phone home | 13:25 |
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| * VladNistor is here now | 13:28 | |
| RobbieThe1st | Problem is, Linux users get really upset about phone-home anything | 13:31 |
| VladNistor | yup, some do. I wouldn't mind as long as my personal info was kept back | 13:32 |
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| Khertan | dpatch is now available in #extras-devel | 13:32 |
| Almehdi | but most ppl do updates.. which is little the same thing | 13:32 |
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| Khertan | Almehdi, the easy way to know is to log the apt-get update request made automatically on the ubuntu server | 13:35 |
| Khertan | even if users didn't made update ... aptitude often update automatically his database | 13:35 |
| Khertan | filter this by ip | 13:35 |
| Khertan | it will exclude of course all users behind proxy | 13:36 |
| Khertan | but it ll be good start | 13:36 |
| Almehdi | yeah.. something like that | 13:36 |
| RobbieThe1st | What about NAT &ip-pools? | 13:36 |
| Almehdi | well..let's hope they do somthing like that ;) | 13:37 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan: ping? | 14:00 |
| Khertan | ong | 14:00 |
| Khertan | (a truncated pong) | 14:01 |
| Khertan | X-Fade, Hi ! | 14:01 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan: You're messing with sdk packages. | 14:01 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: You should not do that ;) | 14:01 |
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| Khertan | X-Fade, oh ? | 14:02 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: dpatch is in sdk. | 14:02 |
| Khertan | arg | 14:02 |
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| Khertan | sorry | 14:02 |
| Khertan | i didn't see it in the sdk | 14:02 |
| Khertan | could you remove it ? | 14:02 |
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| X-Fade | I'll wipe it. | 14:02 |
| Khertan | oh thanks | 14:02 |
| Khertan | i ll try to see why my scripts didn't see it | 14:03 |
| Khertan | (and my build seems to not works : /usr/bin/dpatch: line 8: set: pipefail: invalid option name) | 14:04 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan: Squeeze devkit? | 14:05 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/d/dpatch/dpatch_2.0.21_all.deb | 14:06 |
| Khertan | oh i got some errors during the download | 14:07 |
| Khertan | so this explain the fact that dpatch wasn't found by my script | 14:07 |
| Khertan | thx | 14:08 |
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| Almehdi | RobbieThe1st: still here? | 14:18 |
| RobbieThe1st | Now I am | 14:18 |
| RobbieThe1st | But not for long | 14:18 |
| RobbieThe1st | why? | 14:18 |
| Almehdi | did you only need to run kernel-config or do you want to change in its file? | 14:19 |
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| Wizzup | I just flashed my N900. (FIASCO and eMMC) because I had errors with my /dev/mmcblk0p2 | 14:34 |
| Wizzup | After the full flash the error is still there | 14:34 |
| jacekowski | warranty | 14:35 |
| Wizzup | "EXT3-fs error (devince mmcblk0p2): ext3_journal_start_sb: Detected abort journal" | 14:35 |
| jacekowski | it's time to use your warranty | 14:36 |
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| jacekowski | eMMC seems to be failing quite often | 14:36 |
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| Wizzup | I can't really do anything no either since I obviously can't install rootsh. Well, I guess warranty is indeed the last thing I can do | 14:37 |
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| Wizzup | It's so silly. I've been wanting to do fsck for awhile now, but never could since it wasn't read-only. Now it's read only but I don't have root | 14:47 |
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| * Noobmonk3y W0000TS | 14:51 | |
| * frals trouts Noobmonk3y | 14:52 | |
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| Noobmonk3y | W000P W000P! and i'll turn caps of now lol | 14:52 |
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| Noobmonk3y | just finally figured out autorotate in qtcreator! yay - healthcheck is on it's way! | 14:53 |
| summel | Noobmonk3y: :O | 14:53 |
| Noobmonk3y | ignoring the fact i need to learn QT/C++ and do it all again, the fact i can now design it, and it autorotates - is a good start, oh and it works on my device lol | 14:53 |
| summel | Noobmonk3y: you dont coincidentally have a few minutes time (later)? :D | 14:54 |
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| Noobmonk3y | will do this evening :0 - on my lunch break atm | 14:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | will have 3/4 hours free this evening :) | 14:54 |
| summel | no i need some instructions | 14:54 |
| summel | i guess im too stupid | 14:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol instructions? | 14:54 |
| summel | also i need someone who uses qt creator on a mac | 14:54 |
| summel | because the simulator thingy does not seem to work :S | 14:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | ahhhh not me :( - doing it on windows 7 | 14:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | and i dont use the simulator lol | 14:54 |
| summel | :S ok | 14:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | happy enough the build and run on device works :P | 14:55 |
| summel | :D | 14:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | not the easiest thing to set up - and i haven't even got to the packaging for maemo part yet lol | 14:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | oh well, will hit that bridge when i come to it, V happy qtcreator works, and well'ish though! | 14:55 |
| summel | :D | 14:56 |
| summel | oh | 14:56 |
| summel | packaing | 14:56 |
| summel | i only distribute the binary and a .desktop file | 14:56 |
| summel | :D | 14:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehe i'm used to the python way, so this ones gonna take a little while :P | 14:56 |
| summel | <3 python | 14:56 |
| * lcuk frals a trout harshly using only Noobmonk3y as support | 14:57 | |
| Noobmonk3y | i blame frals and his enourmous........... trout collection | 14:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, if i send you a deb file (if i can find it) will it just load up n work? | 14:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | interested to know what ya think of the possible new design :) | 14:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | actually qtcreator allows me to easily use git now, so may do that tonight | 14:58 |
| lcuk | Noobmonk3y, if you just send me an unsolicited deb I will delete it :P | 14:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol lcuk ;) | 14:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | the trust in maemo has gone :p lol | 14:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG51: is always up for ruining his n900 ;) | 14:59 |
| lcuk | indeed, now if you point towards a git repo I am sure people will look (and some may like to try the deb too) | 14:59 |
| lcuk | its not the trust Noobmonk3y - its reproducability | 14:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | haha good point :p | 14:59 |
| lcuk | random debs for cool programs are one thing | 14:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | anyway tis literally just a menu that auto rotates atm :) | 14:59 |
| lcuk | then show 2 screenshots :D | 15:00 |
| * lcuk will fill in the blanks | 15:01 | |
| frals | for the record di.fm vocal trance is awesome music while working | 15:01 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol frals ;) | 15:01 |
| flux | grishnav, agreed! | 15:01 |
| Noobmonk3y | dont tell me they actually got you working over there! | 15:01 |
| flux | frals even | 15:01 |
| frals | Noobmonk3y: them bastards keep giving me fun stuff to do :( | 15:02 |
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| Noobmonk3y | awwwwwwwwwww tough life ;) | 15:02 |
| frals | Noobmonk3y: worst nightmare eh, enjoing work? ;) | 15:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | now all i need is a job like that ;) | 15:02 |
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| Noobmonk3y | right, back to work, ciao alls | 15:15 |
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| ebzzry_ | Hi! How can I run the built-in image viewer from the command line? | 15:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | I think there is a dbus invocation, burt do not recall it. | 15:40 |
| ebzzry_ | Hmm | 15:40 |
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| ebzzry_ | Does anybody have it? | 15:42 |
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| MohammadAG51 | gpe-filemanager opens images in the default image-viewer | 15:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | i'm assuming it's a dbus command | 15:43 |
| ebzzry | I'll check. | 15:43 |
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| Scelt | frals: I'd like to be able to send MMS to multiple recipients at once. Sending one by one to ten people is pretty frustrating | 15:44 |
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| ebzzry | Does anybody know the actual command to view files using the built-in image viewer? | 15:54 |
| ebzzry | What alternative image viewers, to be run from the command line, would one suggest? | 15:55 |
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| frals | ebzzry: builtin imageviewer can be launched via dbus, fmms is using that iirc :p | 15:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh! calendar alarm going off while screen locked. Click "dismiss" or whatever it's called (stop?). Screen reverts to blanked, but touchscreen clicks are not disabled... BUG! | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ciao | 16:02 |
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| ebzzry | frals: Do you know the command on how to invoke it? | 16:04 |
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| MohammadAG51 | ret = rpc.rpc_run("com.nokia.image_viewer", "/com/nokia/image_viewer", "com.nokia.image_viewer", "mime_open", (str, path)) | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | read fmms_viewer.py :P | 16:05 |
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| ebzzry | OK :) | 16:07 |
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| Khertan | roh they did it again with pr1.3 a leaked firmware ... hope no users will install it | 16:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | already did | 16:09 |
| frals | leaked where? | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: alarm goes off, audio player is muted, but not paused. | 16:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | frals, interwebz | 16:09 |
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| Khertan | i see it on a private forum | 16:12 |
| Khertan | so if it s on it s available somewhere on the net :) | 16:12 |
| pupnik | good ol' Khertan | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | read channel logs for yesterday, meh | 16:13 |
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| Khertan | but as i didn't try it or download it could be a fake :) | 16:14 |
| * MohammadAG51 checked that it wasn't by unpacking the image | 16:16 | |
| MohammadAG51 | and it's not anything new | 16:16 |
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| MohammadAG51 | the kernel is from august | 16:16 |
| Khertan | ouch ... the logs look like there was yesterday on the chan a pokemon battle ! | 16:17 |
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| Almehdi | MohammadAG51: Did you succeede to get mouse to 10.10? | 16:18 |
| Khertan | from what i see on t.m.o there is no link , and no help to download or install it | 16:18 |
| Khertan | it s a good thing | 16:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | Almehdi, haven't tried, lost all configs since i reflashed | 16:18 |
| Almehdi | ouch! | 16:18 |
| vdv | is PR 1.2 release already available? | 16:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 16:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, pr1.2 | 16:19 |
| infobot | somebody said pr1.2 was available since early Tuesday morning. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ -- see ~flashing for how to update | 16:19 |
| Almehdi | :) | 16:19 |
| Khertan | * DocScrutinizer51 is pondering an autokicker with trigger regex 'pr*1*3' | 16:19 |
| Khertan | i vote : +1 | 16:19 |
| vdv | *for n900 | 16:19 |
| * MohammadAG51 calls leaked image pr1.2.5 | 16:19 | |
| Khertan | hum ... 1.2.5 should be reserved to you : an pr1.2 image with your packaged new version of hildondesktop, pulseaudio, and modest | 16:20 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | pulseaudio isn't completely fixed in my package | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | it seems to be fixed in this leaked image | 16:20 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders fixes he'd like. | 16:21 | |
| pupnik | fixed? | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, eMMC? | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 | 16:21 |
| povbot | Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | wanted to test that | 16:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | That's clearly the worst bug. | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | pupnik, no more stuttering | 16:21 |
| pupnik | nice | 16:21 |
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| MohammadAG51 | that's the only thing interesting really :P | 16:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, would dd be a good way to test the eMMC? | 16:22 |
| Khertan | lol funny bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 | 16:23 |
| povbot | Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG51: for what? | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG51: The emmc is a simple block device which is error-free. | 16:24 |
| vdv | interesting, i have flashed my n900 with PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1, but there's no qt there | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG51: Any errors are hardware irrecoverable errors. | 16:24 |
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| vdv | MohammadAG51, bot says that PR1.2 is available from today morning? | 16:25 |
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| ebzzry | MohammadAG51: I ran: 'dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.image_viewer /com/nokia/image_viewer com.nokia.image_viewer.mime_open string:somefile.jpg' but I got: 'Unable to open. File format not supported.' Any hints? | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | full path? | 16:31 |
| yacc | Any idea how to enter a lowcase letter into an entry box that tries to upcase the first letter by default? | 16:32 |
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| yacc | The only way I've found is enter 2 letters, and delete the first one, then the second one stay lowcase, ... | 16:32 |
| ebzzry | yacc: disable it in Text Input under Settings | 16:32 |
| ilius | where is cache files for maep? | 16:32 |
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| ebzzry | MohammadAG51: Giving it a full path, does work. Thanks. | 16:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | :D | 16:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | yw | 16:35 |
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| dolp | sweet my desktop widget finally works :p | 16:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | yacc, bug in 1.2 | 16:35 |
| yacc | Another question, if I have word completion, is there a way to click through different completions? | 16:36 |
| yacc | It tends to choose always the wrong completion, and the one I need shows up when I've almost completely typed the word. | 16:36 |
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| yacc | Any idea how to get alternative word completions? | 16:51 |
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| zybba | hey all, quick question - i installed fmms, and it installed a 3g carrier data connection profile called 'MMS', i want to get rid of this cause my n900 automatically tries to use that for the internet and it isn't internet capable | 16:54 |
| zybba | ove tried removing fmms, doesnt help | 16:54 |
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| zybba | tried deleting connection profile, and it wont let me | 16:54 |
| lardman | settings > internet connections > connections | 16:54 |
| zybba | any suggestion? | 16:54 |
| zybba | lardman: thanks, but wont allow me to delete it | 16:55 |
| lardman | oh, you've tried that already then | 16:55 |
| lardman | dunno, sorry | 16:55 |
| zybba | thanks anyway | 16:55 |
| VladNistor-mob | I just noticed my conky rotates :) ) | 16:56 |
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| pupnik | http://www.movie-moron.com/wp-content/gallery/various/I-See-Stupid-People.jpg | 16:56 |
| frals | zybba: fAPN can remove it for you | 16:57 |
| zybba | is that an app? | 16:57 |
| zybba | guess so, downloading now | 16:58 |
| VladNistor-mob | Lol, pupnik | 16:58 |
| zybba | thanls :) | 16:58 |
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| zybba | frals: thanks so much :) | 16:59 |
| zybba | worked great :D | 16:59 |
| zybba | worked great :D | 16:59 |
| frals | np | 16:59 |
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| orospakr | Hey, I'm using the msn-pecan connection manager, but I've disabled it because it continually attempts to reconnect if it's punted off because another client has connected to MSN (pidgin is smart and notices this and stops reattempting). However, something is still restarting the connection manager in the background. | 17:12 |
| orospakr | I think I may need to use Pidgin instead of Conversations. :( | 17:12 |
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| orospakr | I guess mission-control is to blame for restarting telepathy-pecan, but why would it be doing this if I disabled the account in Accounts? | 17:13 |
| GAN900 | Poor Pre 2 | 17:13 |
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| GAN900 | Would've been interesting minus the useless display. | 17:13 |
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| dRbiG | okey, is there a way to make tracker rescan the dirs without removing the current database? | 17:19 |
| dRbiG | and yes, i agree the tracker and stuff sucks big | 17:19 |
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| Khertan | ouch trying to build new git package is a pain | 17:28 |
| Khertan | there is so many depandancies ! | 17:28 |
| Khertan | libdbd-sqlite3-perl | 17:28 |
| RST38h | ...Sculley talks openly about Jobs and Apple, admits it was a mistake to hire him to run the company and that he knows little about computers... | 17:28 |
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| pupnik | heh | 17:29 |
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| RST38h | http://www.cultofmac.com/john-sculley-on-steve-jobs-the-full-interview-transcript/63295?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+cultofmac/bFow+%28Cult+of+Mac%29 | 17:30 |
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| RST38h | Kinda fascinating really | 17:30 |
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| dneary | Hi | 17:35 |
| dneary | Anyone here every implemented a custom URI handler? | 17:35 |
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| lcuk | dneary, hrm, not sure but I think xchat adds irc: support (I know it does on different platforms) | 17:36 |
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| lcuk | and afaik doesn't transmission add support for torrents | 17:36 |
| peb_ | dneary, where? N900? | 17:36 |
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| dneary | I want to know which OS versions are covered by the different revisions, and it's not clear from the source | 17:39 |
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| dneary | peb_, Yup | 17:39 |
| dneary | lcuk, I'm looking to tidy up http://wiki.maemo.org/URL_Handler | 17:40 |
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| Khertan | X-Fade, does there is a reason for garage maemo extra assistant to not see debian.tar.gz in this changes file http://pastebin.com/k37n1jmU as i didn't let me upload it :) | 17:42 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: Not supported. | 17:43 |
| Khertan | ? | 17:43 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: debian.tar.gz should be diff.tar.gz | 17:43 |
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| Khertan | this is just due to the "debian" term in the name ? | 17:44 |
| Khertan | as it s works with other package i ve upload :) | 17:44 |
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| Khertan | (without debian in there name) | 17:44 |
| Khertan | hum ... this is generated by dpkg ... | 17:45 |
| Khertan | hum ... when i see the debian/rules its typically in the perl style : http://pastebin.com/dcvecL2t | 17:46 |
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| intelinsider | yeah | 18:03 |
| intelinsider | DocScrutinizer you're available? ;) | 18:04 |
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| Khertan | grrrr | 18:10 |
| pupnik | 'people used to call Apple “a vertically-integrated advertising agency,” ' - Scully | 18:11 |
| Khertan | i was trying to package a new version of git ... but it s seems this 1.7 branch depends on many perl things which aren't available on maemo | 18:11 |
| * Khertan didn't wan't to package entirely perl ! | 18:12 | |
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| crashanddie | Crowdsourcing: Anyone have an idea what I could get my gf for her bday? | 18:12 |
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| intelinsider | okay, a brand new n900 but no access to wlan networks? | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | for bday? | 18:15 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer51, birthday | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | intelinsider: or was that a real question? | 18:15 |
| intelinsider | birthday? | 18:16 |
| intelinsider | no i had no idea why i can't access my wlan | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | btw handover 3G->2G works flawlessly here (germany O2) now | 18:17 |
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| crashanddie | "now?" | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | seems there've been oissues 1..2 y ago | 18:18 |
| intelinsider | t-mobile germany | 18:18 |
| lcuk | Khertan, but what do you need from newest git thats missing from existing | 18:19 |
| intelinsider | at the moment without radio | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | intelinsider: are you the 3rd in 4 days, or have you reported before? | 18:20 |
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| intelinsider | ? | 18:20 |
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| summel | intelinsider: works fine here | 18:21 |
| summel | also tmobile | 18:21 |
| summel | but i rarely use 3G | 18:21 |
| Khertan | lcuk: git clone didn't work | 18:21 |
| lcuk | Khertan, to which kind of server? | 18:22 |
| Khertan | lcuk, every | 18:22 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 18:22 |
| Khertan | command doesn't seems to be packaged | 18:22 |
| intelinsider | no my n900 delivered today and now the wifi will not work :D | 18:22 |
| lcuk | and afaik, its not gits problem entirely, its the fact that git was built without https support or something | 18:22 |
| intelinsider | a damage? | 18:23 |
| summel | intelinsider: do you see any wifis? | 18:23 |
| lcuk | i used the maemo4 and maemo5 packaged versions of git happily | 18:23 |
| intelinsider | no | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | <crashanddie> Crowdsourcing: Anyone have an idea what I could get my gf for her bday? | 18:23 |
| summel | and you see wifis with another device? | 18:23 |
| intelinsider | but here is only my own wifi | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | would be a good idea to suggest what she likes | 18:23 |
| summel | hm | 18:23 |
| summel | channel 13? | 18:23 |
| intelinsider | summel: yes my Notebook works | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | git doesn't work properly in scratchbox | 18:23 |
| Khertan | and it s still good to use newer version | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | at least with https links | 18:23 |
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| * MohammadAG needs help with Qt | 18:23 | |
| intelinsider | summel: yes channel 13 | 18:23 |
| summel | try setting your wifi to channel 9 or something to be sure :D | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG | how do I display 5 images with kinetic scrolling between them? | 18:24 |
| summel | iirc the n900 had problems with channel 13 wifis | 18:24 |
| summel | but its not as bad as meego | 18:24 |
| summel | which doesnt even support wpa2 networks :S | 18:24 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, To be honest, I have no fucking clue | 18:24 |
| oscillik | LOL | 18:24 |
| VladNistor-mob | Sweet; if i have my #maemo chat open in conversations and connect the account it shows all 487 people joining one by one... And all the chat for the 2 minutes it takes afterwards.... | 18:24 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, you have nfc about your gf? xD | 18:24 |
| intelinsider | i use WPA2-PSK/TKIP+AES :| | 18:24 |
| summel | intelinsider: this works on maemo | 18:24 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, not for a gift, no | 18:25 |
| summel | but i think channel 13 is the problem | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, hmm | 18:25 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, I've given her plenty of crap already, I'm out of ideas | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, what does she like in general? | 18:25 |
| * MohammadAG suggests a car, if you're feeling rich :P | 18:25 | |
| summel | crashanddie: a bunny | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | crashanddie: wellness spa | 18:25 |
| summel | or better 2 bunnies | 18:25 |
| summel | and 2 cups | 18:25 |
| crashanddie | books, boots, fluffy things (not living) and things that go BOP in the night. | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG | summel, RWJ too much? | 18:25 |
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| summel | MohammadAG: RWJ? | 18:26 |
| summel | crashanddie: 2 dead bunnies in a cup? :O | 18:26 |
| crashanddie | summel, do you really want to get banned before I leave work? | 18:26 |
| MohammadAG | summel, nvm (raywilliamjohnson) | 18:26 |
| summel | crashanddie: you wanted something fluffy (not living) :S | 18:27 |
| intelinsider | ah okay summel thanks | 18:27 |
| summel | crashanddie: what about an ipad? :D | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | I'm out of ideas then | 18:27 |
| intelinsider | i switched the wlan channel on 2 | 18:27 |
| summel | although thats not fluffy | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer51> crashanddie: wellness spa | 18:27 |
| intelinsider | now i see my network | 18:27 |
| crashanddie | summel, thought about that, she sucks at using computers though | 18:27 |
| summel | intelinsider: yay please write a bug report | 18:27 |
| summel | :D | 18:27 |
| crashanddie | summel, so it would be more for me than anything else | 18:27 |
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| crashanddie | actually, that's double win | 18:27 |
| summel | crashanddie: then the ipad is perfect :D | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, tbh, the iPad would be good | 18:27 |
| MohammadAG | no offense | 18:27 |
| crashanddie | hmm | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG | I've seen kids use it | 18:28 |
| crashanddie | are there a lot of free apps? | 18:28 |
| summel | ipad is perfect for people who are to... erm.... to use a computer | 18:28 |
| summel | :o | 18:28 |
| summel | yes | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG | apple does a very good job at easing the use of things | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, free or "free"? | 18:28 |
| summel | and the non-free apps arent that expensive | 18:28 |
| crashanddie | free as in no credit card required. | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG | cause the majority of iPhone/iPad users refer to apps as "free" | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG | catch my drift? | 18:28 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 18:28 |
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| summel | crashanddie: when is her birthday? | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | hmm, I'll do what I do every time | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | check out the toy stores, and the general stores | 18:29 |
| summel | :D | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | find something | 18:29 |
| intelinsider | summel: i'm new in this n900 area | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | summel, I dunno | 18:29 |
| summel | intelinsider: https://bugs.maemo.org/ ^^ | 18:29 |
| intelinsider | i get a few days to feel the n900 =) | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | summel, saturday | 18:29 |
| summel | crashanddie: :O ok | 18:29 |
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| crashanddie | nha, I knew the date, not the day :P | 18:30 |
| summel | i thought more like "in 2 months" or something :D | 18:30 |
| crashanddie | (of the week) | 18:30 |
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| summel | because there probably will be a new ipad in Q1 of 2011 | 18:30 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, how long have you known her for? | 18:30 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, 'bout a year | 18:30 |
| crashanddie | well, I would've completely forgotten about her birthday were it not for the blackberry reminding me | 18:30 |
| intelinsider | but the option to deactivate the vibriation on 'touch'... where is it? | 18:30 |
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| summel | :D | 18:30 |
| crashanddie | intelinsider, settings, display | 18:30 |
| lcuk | intelinsider, control panel, screen | 18:31 |
| intelinsider | hrhr | 18:31 |
| intelinsider | okay | 18:31 |
| intelinsider | thanks :D | 18:31 |
| crashanddie | actually, buckyballs would be a cool gift | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, I don't forget others' birthdays, even if we're not in a relationship | 18:31 |
| summel | i do | 18:32 |
| summel | :D | 18:32 |
| summel | i cant remember such things | 18:32 |
| summel | also names | 18:32 |
| summel | :S | 18:32 |
| MohammadAG | can't forget those | 18:32 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, birthdays are an artificial economic drive which serves absolutely no purpose other than making people poor | 18:32 |
| * lcuk has trouble remembering his own birthday some years | 18:32 | |
| summel | :D | 18:32 |
| Termana | lcuk, selective memory. You don't WANT to remember your own birthday | 18:33 |
| * summel hates hp | 18:33 | |
| summel | :S | 18:33 |
| summel | 12.5 days for a 364MB download... wtf? :S | 18:33 |
| crashanddie | people would be as happy with a nice breakfast, or a massage and nice dinner, with a few quality-time moments, but nooooooooooooo, you need to spend MONIES | 18:33 |
| summel | i thought hp had enough money to buy a decent ftp server :O | 18:33 |
| crashanddie | it's not the server | 18:33 |
| crashanddie | it's the bandwidth | 18:33 |
| summel | crashanddie: idk... its both crappy :S | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, iPhone 4 then? | 18:34 |
| lcuk | Termana, lol - or senility! | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | it's faster than the iPad :P | 18:34 |
| summel | i have a 10Gbit connection... :( | 18:34 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG, nha, requires recurring payment, sucks if we break up | 18:34 |
| summel | crashanddie: you can cook a nice dinner for her? :D | 18:34 |
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| crashanddie | and frankly, how is tying her to a multinational telco company for 2 years a gift? | 18:35 |
| crashanddie | summel, sure, but that's planned anyway | 18:35 |
| summel | crashanddie: http://lifehacker.com/search/recipe/ :D | 18:35 |
| MohammadAG | unlocked | 18:35 |
| Termana | crashanddie, anyway, don't listen to any of these fools. They sit in a channel 24/7 and sob into their beer of sorrows. | 18:35 |
| summel | :O ok | 18:35 |
| summel | Termana: i dont drink beer :O | 18:35 |
| Termana | crashanddie, buy her a promise ring and take her out to a fancy restaurant. | 18:35 |
| crashanddie | Termana, she already has the ring | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, speaking out of experience? nice :P | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, or a purity ring :P | 18:36 |
| * MohammadAG is an ass | 18:36 | |
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| summel | :D | 18:36 |
| Khertan | Termana, ouch and suffer during one year for the preparation of the wedding ! | 18:36 |
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| Termana | MohammadAG, heh | 18:36 |
| crashanddie | and we did fancy restaurant last weekend | 18:36 |
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| MohammadAG | crashanddie, so what's she into? | 18:36 |
| Termana | crashanddie, well your suppose to wait and give her gifts on her birthday. | 18:36 |
| Termana | you're* | 18:36 |
| crashanddie | WELL I WOULD HAVE | 18:37 |
| summel | MohammadAG: leather and bdsm? :O *hide* | 18:37 |
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| crashanddie | If only the blackberry had reminded me of the birthday last week | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | she doesn't seem to be geeky :P | 18:37 |
| crashanddie | and not today | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | effing blackberry, my N900 does that 3 weeks before a bday | 18:37 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, totally not | 18:37 |
| Termana | crashanddie, That's what you get for relying on a crackberry | 18:37 |
| crashanddie | well | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> crashanddie, so what's she into? | 18:37 |
| crashanddie | honestly, I selected 5 adys | 18:37 |
| crashanddie | days** | 18:37 |
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| MohammadAG | effing blackberry, it allows to select the number of days | 18:38 |
| MohammadAG | I think the N900 has it hardcoded to 3 weeks | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | (<summel> intelinsider: yay please write a bug report) about what? US wlan policy enforcement not allowing chan 13? | 18:38 |
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| summel | DocScrutinizer: we are in germany | 18:38 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, she's studying english lit, uses her computer (that i bought) to watch the tv shows I give her, and doesn't even have internet at her place | 18:38 |
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| summel | channel 13 gets used often here :S | 18:38 |
| intelinsider | us? i'm here in germany | 18:38 |
| crashanddie | summel, same in France, just change the router settings | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | summel: that's rather irrelevant if CAL has REGION=US | 18:39 |
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| summel | crashanddie: its not my router | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | osso-product-info|grep -i region | 18:39 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 18:39 |
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| crashanddie | going to hunt for something | 18:39 |
| crashanddie | wml | 18:39 |
| crashanddie | later | 18:39 |
| summel | i wish nokia was the company it was a few years ago :( | 18:39 |
| Termana | crashanddie, you could make a booklet with coupons of things you'll do for her | 18:40 |
| Termana | Cost you nothing (you tight arse) and is easy to get | 18:40 |
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| intelinsider | oh a new maemo version :) | 18:42 |
| jacekowski | pr1.3? | 18:42 |
| Termana | /kick jacekowski | 18:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels | 18:47 |
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| summel | DocScrutinizer: yes i know.. the US dont give a damn about "Most of world" | 18:47 |
| summel | :D | 18:47 |
| summel | also: "In the USA, 802.11 operation in the channels 12 and 13 is actually allowed under low powered conditions." | 18:48 |
| summel | :O | 18:48 |
| summel | so it should support those channels... | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, you'd not want a sidewinder to blow up your house :-P | 18:48 |
| summel | low powered.... i dont think thats possible :O | 18:48 |
| summel | anyways i go home now... laters :) | 18:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what's up? | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | trying to figure out how to finish this final piece of code | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | I've hit a brick wall | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch that must have hurt | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | final piece of code == my patches to hh-kernel as of h-e-n ML? | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | no | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | PSFreedom's help window | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | PR1.3 breaks QTextBrowser btw | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | if anyone's interested | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | it sets a black background, and the text is black | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | there is no pr1.3 | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | k, WK36 | 18:55 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: there is | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ooh? always thought PR means Production Release | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | PreRelease | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | but well | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | it may be production release as well | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, that's commonly attributed as beta | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | or Pretty Retarded | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | so B1.3 is released | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | leaked* | 18:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | define 'released' | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 | 18:59 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 18:59 |
| * DocScrutinizer curses the autokicker not working properly | 19:00 | |
| * Noobmonk3y curses grumpy old men... doc, go eat some sugar ;) | 19:00 | |
| * Noobmonk3y waves, lo alls :) | 19:00 | |
| * jacekowski goes home | 19:00 | |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 19:00 |
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| * Khertan just hope he will not got full of complain from user using this app and a broken firmware like when a broken pr1.2 was released | 19:01 | |
| Khertan | s/this/his | 19:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Khertan: that's why | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 | 19:01 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 19:01 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol khertan, just wait till they change autobuilder again lol | 19:02 |
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| Khertan | http://www.carbu.fr/stationsvides.html | 19:02 |
| Khertan | oups sorry | 19:02 |
| Khertan | wrong window | 19:03 |
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| * VladNistor-mob can't find a way to make XChat fullscreen | 19:04 | |
| Khertan | (for information of those which go to the link and didn't read french this his a google map with gaz station which are out of gaz stock) | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with your gas over there? | 19:05 |
| Khertan | rah ... the good old french tradition ! | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, strike | 19:05 |
| Khertan | strike | 19:05 |
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| Khertan | hum from what i see from the map ... some are missing as i ve try four which are also out of stock and not on the map | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, google | 19:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though the URL... hmmm | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | French are striking faster than internets | 19:08 |
| marmoute | Khertan: didn't you looked at the new ? There is no gaz issue in France. | 19:08 |
| lcuk | Khertan, from what I hear, it would be easier having a map showing the 2 or 3 stations that still have petrol | 19:09 |
| lcuk | instead of locking up my browser shoing hundreds of thousands without | 19:09 |
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| Khertan | marmoute yep i heard the first minister saying that sunday when i was hand pushing car because i didn't found any gaz during my back travel on 500Km | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | aww, once I got stuck in northern France as there were no *open* gas stations on new years eve, at 21:00 | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems they don't bother too much | 19:11 |
| Khertan | it s amazing how french politician can lie and think that all french are dumb | 19:11 |
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| Khertan | it wasn't funny to push the car while listenning them saying there is no problem | 19:12 |
| Khertan | on the autoradio | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they aren't thinking everybody is dumb, they just think they are the smartest | 19:12 |
| Khertan | the smartest dumb ? | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | (well, in the end that's the same) | 19:13 |
| Khertan | 3.5 million demonstrators according to union labor, according to police 50 000 ... hmm .. they are people who know how to count | 19:14 |
| Khertan | maybe they paid the same guy to count out of stock gaz station ? | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | they just didn't count the "chaots" and "anarchists" as demonstrators | 19:15 |
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| Khertan | it s still 3.5 with them ;) | 19:16 |
| Khertan | anyway just a question from people outside france, did you hear about strike in our country ? | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | police: "there were 50.000 demonstrators and 3 mio anarchists" | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, it's in TV news here in D | 19:17 |
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| Khertan | because here we have more and more problem but tv news relate than there is less and less demonstrators | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, if people here were as strike-happy as you are | 19:18 |
| Khertan | and from what i see with my own eye there is more and more people and less and less public transport | 19:19 |
| Khertan | our president have the worst percent of bad popular opignion since the creation of our republic :) | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tbh I couldn't bother less about rent 65->67 | 19:22 |
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| * Noobmonk3y waves at lcuk! | 19:39 | |
| * Noobmonk3y has finally got git working, and just dloaded mo's program into qt, and got it running lol! - graphical interfaces are so much easier for us noobs :) | 19:40 | |
| Noobmonk3y | ahhh tis an html file :P | 19:41 |
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| aSIMULAtor | o hai | 19:41 |
| aSIMULAtor | ltns | 19:41 |
| aSIMULAtor | etc | 19:41 |
| oshin | anyone know if window manager did cache the launching result and store it somewhere? | 19:42 |
| oshin | maemo5 | 19:42 |
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| oshin | so it makes it looks like the app is popping up faster. | 19:42 |
| andre__ | "yes." | 19:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | ooo MohammadAG didnt you tell me something about the window loading stuff? | 19:43 |
| oshin | and the reason why i can't eliminate some appearances of removed icons from settings. | 19:43 |
| oshin | can I removed it? | 19:43 |
| andre__ | a screenshot is shown initially until it's fully loaded | 19:43 |
| andre__ | maybe, if the code is open | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | /home/user/.cache/launch | 19:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | yeah i managed to remove it on healthcheck code, MohammadAG told me how to do it (Something in the packaging) | 19:44 |
| Noobmonk3y | there ya go, the clever one speaketh | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | rm the file you need to recreate | 19:44 |
| oshin | MohammadAG, thanks! | 19:44 |
| jacekowski | whole idea of showing screenshot is evil | 19:44 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol jace | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | if you want to add the screenshot to an app that's closed, take a screenshot, trim the top window bar, then use my pvrcreator app | 19:44 |
| * slonopotamus yawns | 19:44 | |
| oshin | i did waste time grepping for no reason | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, i like it | 19:44 |
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| oshin | looking for pixelized text | 19:45 |
| oshin | but i am happy now, thanks again | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, I use an "Application loading" image in my PSFreedom app | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | so it's not entirely evil when used properly | 19:45 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: it makes application startup _slower_ | 19:45 |
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| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: because some time spent loading image. | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | :) | 19:46 |
| jacekowski | slonopotamus: that's insignificant | 19:46 |
| javispedro | it's on the hw native format | 19:46 |
| javispedro | it's nearly sent as is to pvr | 19:46 |
| javispedro | which uncompresses it | 19:46 |
| jacekowski | but it just makes you think that app is loaded | 19:46 |
| jacekowski | and it isn't | 19:46 |
| slonopotamus | jacekowski: that's mmc access. | 19:46 |
| slonopotamus | (which is likely to be a disk cache miss) | 19:47 |
| jacekowski | slonopotamus: it takes like 0.1s to load | 19:47 |
| oshin | it's just a pvr image? | 19:47 |
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| oshin | so technically you can have your own startup image? | 19:47 |
| jacekowski | yes | 19:47 |
| * oshin replaces all with some pr0n | 19:47 | |
| CutMeOwnThroat | jpinx-eeepc, so how much space did your debian chroot need? | 19:47 |
| Noobmonk3y | bacon porn... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMmmmm | 19:47 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | oh no, not rule 34 again | 19:47 |
| slonopotamus | om nom nom nom | 19:48 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 19:48 |
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| oshin | can you just block it from writing the folder | 19:48 |
| oshin | chmod whatever. | 19:49 |
| MohammadAG | oshin, as I said, I made a simple GUI to make PVRs | 19:49 |
| oshin | MohammadAG, i saw the package.. | 19:49 |
| oshin | cool | 19:49 |
| MohammadAG | sure, chmod it | 19:49 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=837973#post837973 | 19:49 |
| MohammadAG | or remove the code in hildon-desktop | 19:49 |
| * javispedro ponders whether he should add such a feature into sdlhildon | 19:49 | |
| oshin | thanks! | 19:50 |
| oshin | now controlpanel starts right | 19:50 |
| * oshin is so happy | 19:50 | |
| CutMeOwnThroat | jacekowski, actually I like the idea... read the story of some guy who didn't figure that after switching on the device immediately a screenshot was shown for a year or so... | 19:50 |
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| lcuk | Noobmonk3y, pics or it didnt happen | 19:51 |
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| kerio | lcuk: google for bacon rule 34 | 19:51 |
| kerio | duh | 19:51 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | so obviously, after you see the app, your brain needs some time to think what button to press (or at least that's how I explain it for myself)... and so you don't start using stuff immediately | 19:52 |
| lcuk | kerio, why do that | 19:52 |
| * lcuk goes and visits the bacon museum instead :P | 19:52 | |
| kerio | lcuk: dunno, to emotionally scar yourself for life | 19:52 |
| kerio | CutMeOwnThroat: unless you already know exactly what to do | 19:52 |
| kerio | in which case you just swear at the damn image | 19:52 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | naked pig products... *shudder* | 19:52 |
| ShadowJK | yesh :) | 19:52 |
| kerio | or you wait for the disappearence of jpg artifacts | 19:52 |
| oshin | i want a live wallaper that look like galaxy one | 19:53 |
| javispedro | kerio: which then disappears in utter surprise until your brain remembers the entire trickery | 19:53 |
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| kerio | the settings menu is especially guilty of this | 19:53 |
| oshin | changing desktop would slide the nearer stars faster then the back sprite a bit | 19:53 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | kerio, sure... I've never tried it myself, but if there is an inherent pause because of brain-lag, using the same time for loading something on the device and loading something in your brain would be multitasking and improve efficiency :) | 19:53 |
| oshin | or tilting the phone could fake some perspective | 19:53 |
| oshin | hmm probably cant' tell the direction you are looking at it. | 19:54 |
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| kerio | CutMeOwnThroat: my main complaint is the lack of information regarding the completeness of loading | 19:54 |
| oshin | hmm should work.. | 19:54 |
| oshin | n/m | 19:54 |
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| oshin | thanks again | 19:54 |
| kerio | i don't mind if you show me a screenshot of what i'll got if you make it clear it's still loading | 19:54 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | this is assuming that only at the moment you see the loaded image something is triggered in your brain and the pause starts at the time | 19:54 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | I wonder if that would deceive the purpose of simulating a working app == creating the trigger, though | 19:55 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | as long as the person seeing it never figures it's just a screenshot, I would say something is going right there... | 19:55 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | and if he starts swearing at it, something is going wrong :) | 19:56 |
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| javispedro | kerio: there's this title bar throbber thingie... | 19:57 |
| kerio | not good enuff | 19:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk: omfg double woot | 19:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | now have a combobox selecting different stackable windows! | 19:59 |
| * Noobmonk3y is starting to think this aint half bad... its gonna kick me where it hurts soon! | 19:59 | |
| javispedro | kerio: thank god they don't do this for the clock app, thus showing you the wrong time while the app is loading =) (like it already does while unfocused) | 20:00 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hehe | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: it doesn't? I guess that's true for just one clock app, I heard people complaining about exactly that for some clocks | 20:02 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: considering it's a opt-in feature that would be pretty bad. | 20:02 |
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| orospakr | slightly offtopic, but what cases do people like for the N900? The Noreve one looks quite nice. | 20:25 |
| Noobmonk3y | i have a nice £2 slip in one, lasted a year, almost time for a replacement :) | 20:26 |
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| trumee | orospakr: otterbox works well for me | 20:27 |
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| orospakr | trumee, hm, that's also a strong contender. | 20:30 |
| toggles | no case, zagg, held up a year so far | 20:31 |
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| trumee | orospakr: only issue with otterbox is that i havent a car mount for it, since it is thick | 20:33 |
| Goliath23 | whats the current n900's target repo? fremantle, diablo, chinook? | 20:33 |
| muelli | how could I subscribe to calendar in iCalendar (or vCalendar for that matter) format which is served via https? | 20:33 |
| ShadowJK | fremantle | 20:33 |
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| ShadowJK | chinook = maemo 4.0 | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | diablo = maemo 4.1 | 20:34 |
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| Goliath23 | and n900 = maemo5? | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | fremantle | 20:38 |
| Goliath23 | ah okay | 20:39 |
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| ShadowJK | yes, N900 = maemo 5 = fremantle | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | Symbian Foundation has just announced that executive directory Lee Williams has left the company | 20:45 |
| Scelt | surprise surprise | 20:45 |
| javispedro | ... for HP? | 20:45 |
| RST38h | He's been replaced by the reigning CFO, Tim Holbrow, and it appears that the appointment is permanent | 20:45 |
| RST38h | javispedro: For HELL! | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: couldn't take more of the lsd, obviously | 20:46 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: YOu mean it is not only their web site designers? | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | anyone approving of that has to be on drugs | 20:47 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol javispedro i misread that as "for .........BP" | 20:47 |
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| Noobmonk3y | frals: v quiet tonight? :p | 20:48 |
| lardman|home | Anyone know how I invalidate a given QModelIndex in a QTableView? | 20:49 |
| frals | ? :P | 20:49 |
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| lardman|home | argh, I hate model-view crap, especially when the docs are somewhat lacking | 20:52 |
| intelinsider | hmmm | 20:53 |
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| Noobmonk3y | can i borrow someone's qt/C++ brain please? - hopefully an easy question about slots / signals | 20:54 |
| lardman|home | mine's partially swapped out thinking about delegates, but I might manage an easy one | 20:55 |
| RST38h | MVC does tend to suck | 20:55 |
| RST38h | lardman: but can't you do without MVC? | 20:55 |
| lardman|home | The sheer complexity of the Qt setup plus the lack of examples is painful | 20:55 |
| lardman|home | This will be rather longwinded..... | 20:55 |
| lardman|home | mBarcode, parse the plugins and display a list of plugins that can handle the barcode type and content | 20:56 |
| lardman|home | this is implemented as a QListView with custom delegates to render an icon returned by the plugin + some descriptive text | 20:56 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol lardman ! | 20:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | toggles has pm'd me and telling me i'm a fool brb while he assists the weak and feeble like me :) | 20:57 |
| lardman|home | unfortunately this does not react when you press an item, though the code callback works, but if the plugin is a bit slow the user has no idea anything has happened | 20:57 |
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| lardman|home | so I'm uming and aring about whether to just insert a custom widget (qpushbutton with icon and text) or somehow invalidating the item rect and then rendering a pushed down button using QStyle*crap | 20:58 |
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| javispedro | I'm currently on two channels and on both on them someone is bashing qt =) | 20:58 |
| lardman|home | so I'll probably just leave it alone and work on something that's not UI related. I hate UIs ;) | 20:58 |
| RST38h | lardman: Ok. First mistake: using custom delegates | 20:58 |
| javispedro | (note: not on this server) | 20:59 |
| lardman|home | javispedro: not bashing Qt, just the docs/examples | 20:59 |
| RST38h | lardman: Avoid custom-draw stuff as much as possible | 20:59 |
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| KotCzarny | hi | 20:59 |
| RST38h | Heya, KotCzarny. You moved? | 20:59 |
| KotCzarny | anyone played with XShmPutImage on maemo? | 20:59 |
| RST38h | I did, it works. | 20:59 |
| KotCzarny | rst: yeah, i do it from time to time | 20:59 |
| lardman|home | RST38h: use insertWidget instead? | 20:59 |
| KotCzarny | rst: mine doesn't want to. although the same code works on x86 | 21:00 |
| RST38h | lardman: Good idea, although I think Qt offers a few different default list item styles. One may work | 21:00 |
| KotCzarny | one thing is that i create 32bit pixmap | 21:00 |
| RST38h | KotCzarny: You cannot | 21:00 |
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| KotCzarny | rst: xdpyinfo says i can | 21:00 |
| RST38h | KotCzarny: Always create native pixmap, i.e. 16bpp on N900 | 21:00 |
| KotCzarny | x server should do the conversion | 21:00 |
| RST38h | xdpyinfo says all kinds of silliness, but only 16bpp will work | 21:00 |
| oshin | end up using sock as case | 21:00 |
| RST38h | It does not. | 21:01 |
| KotCzarny | at least in theory | 21:01 |
| lardman|home | While we're thinking about Qt, what does one use in pyqt to differentiate between a windows and a linux platform? | 21:01 |
| RST38h | Once more time: X will not do the conversion. ANd this covers both Xfree and Xorg | 21:01 |
| RST38h | Sun's X11 *may* but you are not on a Sun | 21:01 |
| KotCzarny | rst: stupid xfree and xorg | 21:01 |
| Noobmonk3y | nope sorry lard, was hard enough getting it to work on maemo lol | 21:01 |
| KotCzarny | ok, i'll check 16bit one. bbl | 21:01 |
| RST38h | KotCzarny: You want a code sample? | 21:02 |
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| KotCzarny | oh, and in case anyone wants to check out my new visualizer: mrrrrau.dyndns.org:21380/osc6 | 21:02 |
| KotCzarny | x86 code though | 21:02 |
| javispedro | 32bpp stuff does work, at least when the compositor is on | 21:02 |
| lardman|home | Noobmonk3y: there are #defines in C++, so I was wondering if one could use a similar method in the Python code | 21:02 |
| RST38h | with a compositor, maybe | 21:02 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ooo good question hold on, have a little repo of python/qt code, will wander throughit and see it it has been done in there | 21:03 |
| KotCzarny | rst: if it doesn't have any maemo specific bits (apart from 16bit) then not yet | 21:03 |
| RST38h | KotCzarny: EMULib source here: http://fms.komkon.org/EMUL8/ | 21:03 |
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| RST38h | KotCzarny: Check out the LibUnix.cpp part. YOu do not need any maemo specific bits for it to work | 21:03 |
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| KotCzarny | oh, god.. <blink> | 21:04 |
| RST38h | do need to go through some pain with SysV IPC API | 21:04 |
| javispedro | hehe | 21:04 |
| KotCzarny | why not <marquee> ? | 21:04 |
| * KotCzarny grins | 21:04 | |
| Noobmonk3y | lardman: something as simple as calling os.environ ? | 21:04 |
| orospakr | hey, how do I query the current battery status from the command line? | 21:05 |
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| KotCzarny | hehe, use kcbatt | 21:05 |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 21:05 |
| KotCzarny | anyway, gotta test that 16bit | 21:06 |
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| Noobmonk3y | was just thinking the environ should handle it - so maybe - print os.environ.get() ? not used that in a while though | 21:07 |
| javispedro | either way, both compositor and x11 are 16bpp only, so 32bpp is useless save for the 8bpp alpha channel | 21:07 |
| javispedro | bah, too late. | 21:07 |
| javispedro | *safe. | 21:07 |
| javispedro | forget that. | 21:07 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: moo btw | 21:09 |
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| javispedro | hi RST38h | 21:13 |
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| * Noobmonk3y has decided assumption is the mother of all.................BACON | 21:21 | |
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| Noobmonk3y | wow kerio didnt blink, lcuk didnt slurp and frals didnt throw a trout, freaky | 21:22 |
| kerio | meh | 21:23 |
| kerio | just ate pizza | 21:23 |
| kerio | i usually wait about 10 minutes before craving bacon again | 21:23 |
| javispedro | Noobmonk3y: this channel is clearly not as cool as it used to be =) | 21:23 |
| Noobmonk3y | awwwww true true....... | 21:24 |
| Noobmonk3y | and talking of cool, where is qwerty? (Watches the hushed silence and tumbleweed) | 21:24 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ooooo talking of pizza, i'm hungry | 21:24 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | what's the problem with the espeak packages on the N900? Don't get any output from the gui-thingy or the commandline... no error message on the terminal or in dmesg either, though | 21:29 |
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| hardaker | sigh... is there anyway to force a Qt *view class to change the background color on an n900? | 21:32 |
| hardaker | it seems to be locked to to theme without any way of modifying it? | 21:32 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hm, seems to work for other people on the net without problems | 21:34 |
| hardaker | CutMeOwnThroat: I tried to get it working way back when and it failed for me too, if it makes you feel better. But thas was near PR1.0.1 or something. | 21:35 |
| hardaker | (having completely forgotten the version numbers of the PR series from back then too) | 21:35 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | hm | 21:37 |
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| MohammadAG | hardaker, styleSheet? | 21:40 |
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| Khertan | hardaker, if stylesheet didn't fix it, it s come from the maemo qt style | 21:43 |
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| hardaker | stylsheet didn't work. | 21:43 |
| hardaker | m_answerView->setStyleSheet("QTreeView { background-color: #ff9696; }"); | 21:43 |
| hardaker | that works on everything *but* the n900 | 21:43 |
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| Khertan | On a treeview | 21:43 |
| Khertan | arg | 21:43 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | oh... I had it set on silent... I thought that's only for the phone - media player and others totally ignored that setting, but espeak honored it | 21:43 |
| Khertan | i ve made many attempts too | 21:44 |
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| Khertan | hardaker, it s hard coded :) | 21:44 |
| hardaker | it's really annoying when you want to color code the responses! | 21:44 |
| hardaker | ugh. | 21:44 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | I actually thought that setting only affecte the phone functionality | 21:44 |
| Khertan | not really hard coded but define by the maemo theme | 21:44 |
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| MohammadAG | hardaker, styleSheets work on my N900 :/ | 21:44 |
| Khertan | for khweeteur i use a delegate :) | 21:44 |
| toggles | anyone know what the ding means when the phone shuts off some times? | 21:44 |
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| Khertan | MohammadAG, depends on which widget | 21:45 |
| Khertan | MohammadAG, background will not work on a QTreeView | 21:45 |
| hardaker | yeah... I realize the goal and understand it untli you need more flexibility for something. | 21:45 |
| hardaker | MohammadAG: really.... hmm.... | 21:45 |
| MohammadAG | Khertan, oh, I use it on QMainWindow | 21:45 |
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| Khertan | MohammadAG, on a QMainWindow it s works | 21:45 |
| Khertan | :) | 21:45 |
| hardaker | MohammadAG: I'd happily give you a package to try if you want to see if it works on a tree view. But I'm sure it doesn't. | 21:46 |
| hardaker | (what's annoying even more is that the stylesheet *does* affect the space to the left of the view; ie, the indented space as you go into the tree) | 21:46 |
| Khertan | hardaker, i use a custom delegate | 21:46 |
| Khertan | example : http://gitorious.org/khweeteur/khweeteur/blobs/master/khweeteur/__init__.py line 899 | 21:47 |
| Khertan | QTreeView.setItemDelegate | 21:47 |
| Khertan | : | 21:47 |
| Khertan | :) | 21:47 |
| hardaker | I haven't ever tried a delegate yet. | 21:48 |
| hardaker | I need to learn about them though | 21:48 |
| hardaker | although i've never met anyone that liked playing with them yet! | 21:48 |
| hardaker | BTW, thanks for the twitter client. It's still the best one out there for the N900. | 21:49 |
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| hardaker | guess I'll have to ! | 21:49 |
| alterego | deedeedee | 21:50 |
| intelinsider | hm, what is with multimedia messages? | 21:51 |
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| Khertan | hardaker, thx | 21:52 |
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| Khertan | hardaker, personnally i ve liked to play with them :) | 21:53 |
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| hardaker | good to hear! | 21:53 |
| hardaker | It's time for me to dive in... | 21:53 |
| Khertan | really better than playing with Gtk.DrawingArea :) | 21:53 |
| hardaker | heh. | 21:54 |
| javispedro | so two non-free apps won callingallinnovators, and one of them is not being released due to copyright owner(s) not agreeing to forget about GPL and make it proprietary. smells nice. | 21:54 |
| hardaker | I've done things with QPainters before so you'd think I would have at least tried merging the two... but I haven't. | 21:54 |
| Khertan | javispedro, this contest was a shame from the start | 21:55 |
| Khertan | one of the reason that i didn't particip | 21:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | javispedro: tis pants :( | 21:55 |
| javispedro | Khertan: seems so. | 21:55 |
| javispedro | I have to wonder how many devs participated. cause I didn't, either. | 21:56 |
| Khertan | i think they didn't have many choice, and from the choice they made ... i ll said : two dev :) | 21:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | i didnt :p | 21:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | couldnt really enter with healthcheck :p | 21:57 |
| Khertan | couldn't really enter with KhtEditor :) | 21:57 |
| Khertan | and didn't plan to submit Khweeteur | 21:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | Khertan: you've made more than that! anyway, until yesterday i used most of em lol | 21:57 |
| * MohammadAG should've applied with a dd gui that wipes your rootfs | 21:58 | |
| mece | I guess I could'v entered with comic widget, if it wasn't so shitty | 21:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: i shoulda submitted PR1.4 ;) | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | "Oooh what does this app do, nice UI... huh... WTF" | 21:58 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: it would have probably won | 21:58 |
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| Khertan | MohammadAG, hum ... nice idea for next context :) | 21:58 |
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| mece | LOL | 21:58 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: and you would be 25,000 richer by now. happy? | 21:59 |
| Khertan | probably a Meego Call For Innovator contest | 21:59 |
| javispedro | =) | 21:59 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, yeah, it would've been a killer app | 21:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol khertan :P | 21:59 |
| Khertan | i suggest doing a fractal representation of the data destruction | 21:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | first person to make meego look like windows 3.11 wins 25k ;) | 21:59 |
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| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, isn't it already non functional? | 22:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | talking of meego, wish i could go to dublin :) - just no money and no time :( | 22:00 |
| MohammadAG | jk | 22:00 |
| Khertan | it ll be not too difficult to do ... | 22:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol mo! | 22:00 |
| Khertan | like win it didn't work well currently | 22:00 |
| * MohammadAG still ponders if he should go | 22:00 | |
| MohammadAG | or save the money for something else | 22:00 |
| jpinx-ee1pc | CutMeOwnThroat: 2 GBs | 22:01 |
| * Khertan will not go to dublin | 22:01 | |
| MohammadAG | how come | 22:01 |
| MohammadAG | then who's going :( | 22:01 |
| javispedro | me | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | you're going? | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 22:01 |
| Khertan | the nothing to see ... and global attitude make me feeling that i wasn't welcome | 22:01 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 22:01 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, not really sure | 22:01 |
| * Noobmonk3y welcomes khertan with added bacon | 22:02 | |
| kerio | BACON | 22:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | i'm only 300 miles way! | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: we have a killer app development program, but ok.. | 22:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | but seriously have zerrrrrrrrro cash! | 22:02 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, see above :P | 22:02 |
| jpinx-ee1pc | CutMeOwnThroat: next time I will make it the whole of a micro sd card tht will be able to be mounted as a chroot *or* just as data | 22:02 |
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| Noobmonk3y | kerio, have i mentioned i love you? lol :P | 22:02 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, * MohammadAG should've applied with a dd gui that wipes your rootfs <-- NOW THAT'S A KILLER APP! | 22:02 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, we have a killer app idea :) | 22:02 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 22:02 |
| MohammadAG | wait | 22:02 |
| MohammadAG | dd is dangerous | 22:02 |
| MohammadAG | ok, mtd-utils's flash_clean | 22:03 |
| MohammadAG | it destroys your rootfs, but doesn't damage your hardware ;) | 22:03 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, really didn't hear of any | 22:03 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol | 22:03 |
| MohammadAG | Khertan, there weren't any, muhahaha | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: did you see the program? :P | 22:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Whenever the phone is unused, flash the CMT over and over. | 22:04 |
| MohammadAG | the killer app program killed the guy who planned it | 22:04 |
| SpeedEvil | After 100K flashes - around a week - ... | 22:04 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, on the same time ... i m still hoping some day there will be a community obs ... and a community repository for meego | 22:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: you trout killer you! | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: i'm with you on that one | 22:04 |
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| Noobmonk3y | Khertan: would be good ) | 22:04 |
| ieatlint | why don't bars serve bacon? | 22:04 |
| * MohammadAG wants debs for MeeGo | 22:04 | |
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| javispedro | pft. | 22:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | Stskeeps: aren't you the person to ask to make that so? | 22:05 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, don't try to convince me RPMs > Debs, you won't succeed :P | 22:05 |
| * Noobmonk3y lols at MohammadAG | 22:05 | |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: Bacon > trouts | 22:05 |
| * javispedro has some days the uncanny feeling that he wants to throw everything and reinvent the wheel. | 22:05 | |
| * MohammadAG pokes frals | 22:05 | |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, blasphemy! | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/schedule - quite a lot of app development + design talks, hands-on workshops and tutorials on getting started with meego sdk :P | 22:05 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, i m still waiting an update on current meego target on the community obs to build pyside for current meego target :) | 22:05 |
| ieatlint | MohammadAG: if you succeed in convincing them to switch to deb, i'll buy you a keg of beer | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: ah.. | 22:05 |
| Noobmonk3y | i wonder if the NHS would sponsor me to go to the conference lol | 22:05 |
| MohammadAG | ieatlint, I don't drink, so I'll donate it to... | 22:06 |
| * MohammadAG looks at channel list | 22:06 | |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, i didn't need meego sdk ... not interested by this c++ everywhere spirit :) | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: fair enough | 22:06 |
| ieatlint | ok, then i'll buy you something you do drink/eat | 22:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol Khertan started c++ yesterday! | 22:06 |
| MohammadAG | ChanServ! that dude never leaves this channel | 22:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: dont start me on nickserv | 22:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | or bloody infobot | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: sdk is still useful for running pyqt stuff | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | or pyside | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:06 |
| * MohammadAG starts Noobmonk3y on nickserv | 22:06 | |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, infobot quit once | 22:06 |
| * Noobmonk3y farts | 22:06 | |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, a device is better ... | 22:06 |
| MohammadAG | I think it rage quit | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: that too | 22:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: that was armageddon preparations | 22:07 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, it's the apocalypse!!!11!!!!!!!!!11 | 22:07 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, i ll like too be able to code on my netbook ... and make things cross working on the n900 too | 22:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | preparations, not the actual things... apocalypse takes time! | 22:07 |
| MohammadAG | do I receive signal 11 when I die? | 22:07 |
| Khertan | Noobmonk3y, i know c++ but didn't like using it | 22:07 |
| Mousey | minecraft on maemo yet? | 22:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | Khertan: just like c++ :p hehehe | 22:07 |
| Khertan | also | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, well, when nuclear batteries are out, no, it doesn't | 22:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | Khertan: i might not be too far away from coming back to pyqt - if only we had the same tools + functionality! | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 22:08 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: no, you get a WM_QUIT event when you die | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: i'd like to bet with you that after trying out yaml+spec for a week you'll never want to go back to debs :P | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:08 |
| Khertan | Noobmonk3y, which tool are missing ? | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | if Apple used nuclear batteries... | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | and some idiot decided to see if it will blend or not | 22:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | well, qt creator, one click, running on device, wysiwyg designer etc.... | 22:08 |
| * Khertan hate spec | 22:08 | |
| MohammadAG | or just shoved it in a microwave | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | would be cool | 22:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | (although thats a recent development for me) | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, then it's a bet | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | if I like RPMs, you switch to debs, if not, you can keep RPMs | 22:09 |
| Khertan | Noobmonk3y, lol qt creator one click, look messy everywhere except on your pc | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | see what I did there? | 22:09 |
| Khertan | but on the other side i like the suse obs | 22:09 |
| Khertan | :) | 22:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | Khertan: true :P - but tis running quicker on the device at present then old Healthcheck | 22:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | and with mobility etc i have a few more gadgets to use | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | Qt/C++ > PyQt | 22:10 |
| Khertan | this is because you didn't use the right py libs | 22:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol MohammadAG | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | Python is just slow | 22:10 |
| * MohammadAG will brb, after this short announcement | 22:10 | |
| MohammadAG | nah seriously, bbl | 22:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | Khertan: you mean that is because there is no documentation to teach me lol :P | 22:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | well, less | 22:10 |
| Khertan | MohammadAG, py is slow when used by bad coders | 22:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | Khertan: i'll be a good test.... | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | Khertan, thou dare call me a bad coder? | 22:10 |
| dRbiG | like everything | 22:10 |
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| Khertan | MohammadAG, a bad py coder :) | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | Khertan, :P | 22:10 |
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| Noobmonk3y | Khertan: 2 weeks to code a pyqt app to get it into maemo downloads, (including waiting period) dont think i'll beat that in c++ lol | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | Khertan, so true | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | brb | 22:11 |
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| Noobmonk3y | but i spent alot of time afterwards wondering how to do things and couldnt find any documentation anywhere.... so trying a different approach :) | 22:11 |
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| Noobmonk3y | + i miss the VB style screen layout, drag n drop lol | 22:12 |
| javispedro | ~VB | 22:12 |
| infobot | it has been said that vb is something stupid | 22:12 |
| mece | Noobmonk3y, QML!!!! | 22:12 |
| Khertan | Noobmonk3y, optimizing is difficult | 22:12 |
| Khertan | Noobmonk3y, in python there is few rule | 22:12 |
| Khertan | s | 22:12 |
| Khertan | use the most often py module (as they are already optimized and writted in c) | 22:13 |
| Khertan | as possible | 22:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol and lol | 22:13 |
| Khertan | 2/ profile | 22:13 |
| Khertan | 3/ profile | 22:13 |
| Khertan | 4 / profile | 22:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | true :P | 22:13 |
| Khertan | 5/ profile again :) | 22:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | actually not disagreeing as i much much prefer python :) | 22:13 |
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| Noobmonk3y | but in 2 hours of QT designer and 4 lines of code i have a more usable app layout ... (mainly cos i had no idea on pyqt) | 22:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | coding is muich harder, guis and layout seems easier, anyway, will see if it is better or not in a few weeks :P | 22:14 |
| Khertan | and in the worst case rewrite things to slow to compute in python c compiled module :) | 22:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | literally recoding the whole of healthcheck :| | 22:14 |
| Khertan | Noobmonk3y, lol funny , maybe i didn't understand the phylosophy under qtcreator ... but i spent 2 days to trying to do an gui for khweeteur | 22:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehehe :) | 22:15 |
| Khertan | and i finally write it manually in one hour :) | 22:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | thats fair enough though :p | 22:15 |
| Khertan | but having choice is still better :) | 22:16 |
| Noobmonk3y | but thats maybe because you understood pyqt? - it was my first try with healthcheck | 22:16 |
| Noobmonk3y | and yes i definitley agree | 22:16 |
| Noobmonk3y | if it doesnt work for me i'll move on :P hehe, although still playing with pyqt at the mo | 22:16 |
| Khertan | i didn't understood it ... just trying to learn :) | 22:16 |
| Noobmonk3y | theres no doubt i prefer python as a language :) | 22:16 |
| Noobmonk3y | i meant python, ie, you knew pyqt more then you knew c++/qt | 22:16 |
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| Goliath23 | alright, I uploaded a package top extras. the build failed | 22:18 |
| Goliath23 | how do I know why it failed? ;) | 22:18 |
| Goliath23 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/buliscores/ | 22:18 |
| Noobmonk3y | Goliath23: Warning: This package does not have a proper description | 22:19 |
| Goliath23 | ah, thought that was only a warning | 22:19 |
| Goliath23 | its the reason the build failes? | 22:19 |
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| Goliath23 | http://pastebin.com/fMcRhSV8 | 22:21 |
| Noobmonk3y | erm there is a build log somewhere | 22:21 |
| Goliath23 | this is the control file. | 22:21 |
| Goliath23 | Noobmonk3y: that's what i'm searching for! | 22:22 |
| Noobmonk3y | you normally get an email, albeit delayed :0 | 22:22 |
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| Noobmonk3y | i'm assuming best thing to do is email Andre (is he still bugs master?) as he will let you know exactley why | 22:25 |
| Noobmonk3y | bugsmaster :) | 22:25 |
| andre__ | or ask him here | 22:25 |
| * andre__ too lazy to read backlog | 22:25 | |
| Noobmonk3y | Goliath23: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/buliscores_0.0.2-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 22:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | andre__: lol! | 22:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | i was trying to remember how to find build logs :) | 22:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | and andre__ thank you :) | 22:27 |
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| andre__ | och, I'm not involved in the builder. I'm just the monkey reading your bug reports. :-P | 22:27 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol andre__ compared to me you are bugs god :P lol - anyway, you will understand em more :P | 22:28 |
| Goliath23 | ah, thanks! | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | maybe we should s/master/monkey/g on all the staff titles | 22:28 |
| Goliath23 | lets see. it doesn't find the .pro file... | 22:28 |
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| Noobmonk3y | and you are here, and said hello, so by that, you know more than me lol | 22:28 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol keeps | 22:28 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, I'm in. | 22:28 |
| * Noobmonk3y too | 22:28 | |
| Stskeeps | andre__: how would bug monkey as a title work on immigration papers? | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | +work | 22:29 |
| Noobmonk3y | Stskeeps: better then /united kingdom/ on most | 22:29 |
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| andre__ | Don't tell me about migration. I'm not even registered in this country ;-) | 22:30 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol!!!!!!!! | 22:30 |
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| * Noobmonk3y is half aussie and never been to australia, but it pisses people off knowing i can get an aussie passport and just move there... yet i hadnt even though about that! | 22:30 | |
| Goliath23 | is builddir a variable in the rules file? | 22:31 |
| Noobmonk3y | yet to go to america i need to piss in the wind on a blue moon when the pigs fly over the right side of the never seen apocalyptic clud with a trout in one pocket and a rasher of bacon stamped on my forehead! | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: i'm still unsure what i signed when i requested a 5 year residence permit here in poland | 22:31 |
| Goliath23 | or am I supposed to change it? (I copied it from a tutoial) | 22:31 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, The fine I have to pay for not registering is less than the money I'd lose by not working one day and lining up at the foreigner's police to wait for hours... | 22:31 |
| kerio | MOAR BACON | 22:31 |
| andre__ | is that permanent or temporary residence? | 22:32 |
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| Noobmonk3y | andre__: sounds like you are next in line for immigration to the UK lol - thats the fine ;) | 22:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | Stskeeps: even | 22:32 |
| andre__ | Noobmonk3y, everything but UK. Too much CCTV. | 22:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol - theres none near me, what do people whine about? | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: 3 month residence first, then 5 years based on marriage to a polish citizen and my polish company | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | permanent is after that.. | 22:32 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Noobmonk3y must have done something very bad for the USA-ians to not let a paddy in | 22:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | anyway, they cant afford people to monitor the cctv :P | 22:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | paddy?! | 22:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | paddy!!!!!!! | 22:32 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, oh true, you are married. I should consider that too :-P | 22:32 |
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| Noobmonk3y | dont you paddywhack me! lol | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: yes, it scares me too | 22:33 |
| Wizzup | jacekowski: Sorry for the highlight. I just wanted to say I got it to work again. I flashed both FIASCO and eMMC, then enabled R&D mode, ran fsck since it was mounted as r/o; installed rootsh; then disabled r&d mode and ran another fsck | 22:33 |
| Wizzup | It seems to work now | 22:33 |
| andre__ | If they kick me out here, France or Istanbul are on my wishlist. Because I can. | 22:33 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehehe :P | 22:33 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, I can only get permanent residence after three years of being here | 22:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | maybe not france now, at least if you have a car ;) | 22:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | petrol is more expensive than caviar, or at least non existent ;) | 22:34 |
| andre__ | yeah, "greve" is an important french word... | 22:34 |
| andre__ | (on strike) | 22:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol :P | 22:35 |
| jpinx-eeepc | fwiw - it's cheaper and easier for me to be here as a tourist and just renew the visa | 22:35 |
| jpinx-eeepc | same in Peru - getting anything approaching residence is just too difficult | 22:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | really? | 22:36 |
| Noobmonk3y | The UK needs to learn lol | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: i'm personally happy to have escaped danish tax.. | 22:36 |
| Noobmonk3y | our bloody fault for colinising the damn world | 22:37 |
| jpinx-eeepc | the Ukis vastly over-rated ;) | 22:37 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, haha, do you think I had a different reason to move? :-P | 22:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol jpinx-eeepc :P | 22:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | its a nice place if you can ignore the papers and politics, let alone the foreign view of it :) | 22:38 |
| andre__ | (Plus I got out of the state's pension system. I wouldn't get anything anyway later, so why pay?) | 22:38 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it's not until you have left the UK for a while that you realise how crapp it is | 22:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | hahaha | 22:38 |
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| Noobmonk3y | i've lived in quite a few places, but would always want to live where i did as a child :) | 22:39 |
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| Noobmonk3y | although sitting on a beach somewhere is tempting :) | 22:39 |
| jpinx-eeepc | That's just sentiment - not reality | 22:39 |
| andre__ | yeah, beach is missing in this country. that's the small downside. :-/ | 22:40 |
| jpinx-eeepc | give me a sunny beach, cheap living and sexy girls anyday :p | 22:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | jpinx-eeepc: well, seintiment is reality? i liked it :) | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: i would pay ~50% tax in .dk while 19% here.. | 22:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | :| | 22:41 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Are you planing to become a .PL citizen? | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no | 22:41 |
| * jpinx-eeepc pays 0% | 22:41 | |
| RST38h | ufff | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i live here, registered here and paying tax here, but i wouldn't trade my .dk passport | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:41 |
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| andre__ | Stskeeps, uh, nice. 42% vs 23% here. | 22:41 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I almost though you went nuts =) | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: that too | 22:42 |
| RST38h | andre: 13%, if you disregard other stuff | 22:42 |
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| andre__ | flattax? | 22:43 |
| RST38h | yes | 22:43 |
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| RST38h | and the residence status (for tax purposes) is 6 months out of a year | 22:43 |
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| MohammadAG | holmes.freenode.net, you suck | 22:44 |
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| * andre__ changes "bugmaster" to "bugmonkey" in his meegoconf presentation slides | 22:44 | |
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| andre__ | RST38h, same here with the 6months rule | 22:44 |
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| Noobmonk3y | w000000000000p | 22:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | andre__: you can't be a bug monkey without my say so :P lol | 22:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | monkeymaster rules, ;) | 22:46 |
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| andre__ | Noobmonk3y: Ah, sorry. (one of my personal rules for work is "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission") | 22:49 |
| yacc | andre_: as long you don't get fired :) | 22:49 |
| Noobmonk3y | ahhh good point :) :) :) | 22:49 |
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| andre__ | yacc: errrm, another rule is "Come to work each day willing to be fired". This is stuff I do believe in ("10 Commandments" by Pinchot) | 22:50 |
| andre__ | (not that I came up with it myself) | 22:50 |
| RevdKathy | I rather like "Never apologise, never explain" | 22:51 |
| andre__ | RevdKathy, oh, you also work for Nokia then? :-P | 22:51 |
| RevdKathy | No, I work for the NHS - just as bad! | 22:52 |
| andre__ | :-) | 22:52 |
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| yacc | RevdKathy: Well, the NHS seems not that bad, it's relatively (compared to other national health systems) cheap, ... | 22:53 |
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| RevdKathy | It's pretty decent if you're a patient with an emergency as a healthcare service. As an employer.... | 22:56 |
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| RST38h | Heh,Gizmodo lays an egg: http://gizmodo.com/5667723/why-were-not-reviewing-the-nokia-n8 | 22:58 |
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| * Noobmonk3y blinks | 22:59 | |
| Noobmonk3y | RevdKathy: Eveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeening! | 22:59 |
| RevdKathy | Evenin Noob - how's trick? | 22:59 |
| * Noobmonk3y needs a new job, the nhs is dragging me down slowly :p | 22:59 | |
| Noobmonk3y | two bottles of wine, evening tis good :) | 23:00 |
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| Noobmonk3y | healthcheck is being c++'d :) | 23:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | slowly! | 23:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | hard learning new things :P | 23:01 |
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| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, nice to see you considered my suggestion :P | 23:01 |
| RevdKathy | Hey, Noobmonk3y - fancy running away from the NHS? I am wondering wether I could retrain for anything else. | 23:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | Noobmonk3y: ? eat more bacon, drink more alcohol and find loose ladies? | 23:02 |
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| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: even , omfg | 23:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | damn i'm slow | 23:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol RevdKathy !!!! | 23:02 |
| MohammadAG | <Noobmonk3y> Noobmonk3y: ? eat more bacon, drink more alcohol and find loose ladies? | 23:02 |
| * MohammadAG sleeps Noobmonk3y | 23:02 | |
| Noobmonk3y | its more a proferssional thing, i do get training, but get very little in job experience lol :P | 23:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | professional* | 23:03 |
| MohammadAG | C++ is easy, till kerio tries to help :P | 23:03 |
| Noobmonk3y | haha | 23:03 |
| Noobmonk3y | just feed him bacon ;) | 23:03 |
| kerio | my experience with c++ is a hour of lesson at the uni while somebody who is *not* proficient by any means told us how to write a program that multiplied 5 by 3 and added 7 | 23:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | RevdKathy: Mandy(gf) is out learning sign language, so i'm learning c++ twas only fair ;) | 23:04 |
| kerio | and outputted the result | 23:04 |
| kerio | with printf | 23:04 |
| kerio | so i guess it was a C lesson | 23:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol kerio | 23:04 |
| RevdKathy | Sounds good. I fear I am a little too old to retrain | 23:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh, i said that, two weeks ago i went over the hill so to speak :P | 23:05 |
| kerio | Noobmonk3y: i shit you not | 23:05 |
| Noobmonk3y | dont shit on me, please, no really, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease | 23:05 |
| kerio | i said i'm not shitting you | 23:05 |
| kerio | relax | 23:05 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehehe | 23:05 |
| Noobmonk3y | RevdKathy: after your course this year, doing any more? | 23:05 |
| Scelt | oh, I didn't know that Nokia is changing symbian to meego on all N-devices | 23:06 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, uni? | 23:06 |
| MohammadAG | I thought you were 10 :P | 23:06 |
| Scelt | I thought that Meego's gonna be a maemo type little side project | 23:06 |
| RevdKathy | Taking a year out and debating a D Proff starting next year | 23:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | Scelt: neither did i :p | 23:06 |
| Scelt | http://gizmodo.com/5571633/nokia-ditching-symbian-for-n+series-phones | 23:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | wow!!!! | 23:06 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: yeah, it's scary that i'm considered a responsible adult | 23:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: just realised when i was in turkey... i was getting even closer to you :P lol - was probably only 1 hours ish flight away :P | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, turkey is 1.5h from the local airport | 23:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | :P :) :) | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | by local, I mean a 30 minute drive @ 120kph | 23:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh, | 23:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | legal in some countries | 23:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | no idea what 120kph is in mph though | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | hah, speed limit is 90 | 23:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | 80? | 23:08 |
| kerio | 80 is 150km/h | 23:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | oh | 23:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | 60? | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | though you could easily find police cars driving over the speed limit | 23:08 |
| kerio | no, wait | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | so. meh | 23:08 |
| kerio | 88mph is 141km/h | 23:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | 120 kph = 74.5645431 mph | 23:08 |
| kerio | my dad routinely drives at about 170km/h on the highway :> | 23:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | i had a hyundai atos in lesvos, was genius, think i hit 80kph at one point :P | 23:08 |
| * MohammadAG has not witnessed that yet | 23:09 | |
| MohammadAG | kerio, timelapse pics or it didn't happen! | 23:09 |
| kerio | peak was about 240km/h | 23:09 |
| * Stskeeps is just happy to have a n900 compatible car, with usb plug charging it and a2dp working with it.. | 23:09 | |
| MohammadAG | school trip on thrusday, I need 3 more BL-5J batteries | 23:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | in germany i was driving a vectra gsi (about 10 years ago) at a speed that will not be mentioned, when a mini ... yes a mini overtook me... goin at least 185mph.... ok it was done up to the buggery | 23:09 |
| MohammadAG | a2dp is awesome | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG | in a car | 23:10 |
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| Stskeeps | also, it meant i could mark the car as a 'development device' for my work.. | 23:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | l9ol keeps | 23:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol* | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:10 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, mine too. fm transmitter is *awesome* | 23:10 |
| * MohammadAG types why in google | 23:11 | |
| MohammadAG | first hit, why did I get married LOL | 23:11 |
| Noobmonk3y | :P | 23:13 |
| jpinx-eeepc | try "how much" ;) | 23:13 |
| kerio | MohammadAG, why don't you buy a solar panel charger? | 23:14 |
| Goliath23 | what is that supposed to tell me? :) https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/buliscores_0.0.2-1/summary.log | 23:15 |
| RevdKathy | So? Why DID you get married? | 23:16 |
| oshin | MohammadAG, btw, thanks for the pvr app it's perfect. | 23:16 |
| * oshin is much psychologically satisfied. | 23:17 | |
| MohammadAG | oshin, you're welcome :) | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, are those enough to get the N900 past X? | 23:17 |
| kerio | past x? | 23:17 |
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| MohammadAG | Xorg | 23:17 |
| Noobmonk3y | Goliath23: a problem on File "/usr/lib/python2.5/shutil.py", line 51, in copyfile | 23:17 |
| Noobmonk3y | fdst.close() | 23:17 |
| Noobmonk3y | ? | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | the N900 needs a huge amount of power to boot up | 23:18 |
| kerio | you're not hotswitching? | 23:18 |
| kerio | :o | 23:18 |
| Goliath23 | Noobmonk3y: I don't use python in my package | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, how would I hotswitch, while OTG | 23:18 |
| kerio | oh, that's why you carry 25 batteries with you | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | doesn't have to use with USB OTG btw, I just used it as an acronym | 23:18 |
| kerio | you can't charge | 23:18 |
| Noobmonk3y | no python libs? -> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/buildlib/app.py is starting the call! | 23:19 |
| kerio | oh, nvm | 23:19 |
| kerio | well, with the said solar charger for instance :) | 23:19 |
| Goliath23 | Noobmonk3y: its not in my package, though. its c++ and qt only | 23:19 |
| kerio | offline mode, stop bme, suspend to ram, switch batteries, start bme, ntp | 23:19 |
| Noobmonk3y | and there is definitley no python system libs being called? | 23:19 |
| Noobmonk3y | andre__: :) | 23:20 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, no StR support afaik | 23:20 |
| * Noobmonk3y looks at andre__ the brainy one :P | 23:20 | |
| kerio | MohammadAG: huh? | 23:20 |
| kerio | echo mem > /sys/power/state | 23:20 |
| Noobmonk3y | brb | 23:21 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh back tomorrow, gf home | 23:21 |
| Noobmonk3y | need to de-wine! | 23:21 |
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| MohammadAG | kerio, and how would it load that? | 23:22 |
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| MohammadAG | actually | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | how would I swap batteries without a power source | 23:22 |
| kerio | as i said, buy a solar charger :) | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | suspend to disk | 23:23 |
| * MohammadAG bangs head on disk | 23:23 | |
| MohammadAG | desk even | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | 256M is only ~10s suspend/restore times | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | using both sd and mmc | 23:23 |
| kerio | it was a design choice by nokia, yeah! | 23:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | even neglecting compression. | 23:23 |
| RevdKathy | Right: G'night all | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, I thought suspend to disk wasn't possible | 23:24 |
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| MohammadAG | night ... | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: anything is possible. | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: There is nothing in the hardware that precludes it. | 23:26 |
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| trumee | hmm. so is N8 i/o better than N900 since it has wifi n? | 23:27 |
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| MohammadAG | o_O what? | 23:27 |
| MohammadAG | IO doesn't have to do with wifi | 23:27 |
| trumee | N8 seems to have wifi n support. so can it handle high writing rate to flash memory. | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | how is that related? | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:28 |
| trumee | well i would have thought it will be useful to do big downloads with wifi n | 23:28 |
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| MohammadAG | symbian's browser is shit | 23:28 |
| trumee | plus some people will want to run torrents with that high speed. | 23:28 |
| crashanddie | I managed to get every song a national radio has aired over the past 2 years | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | torrents on a flash are meh | 23:29 |
| trumee | yes, wholly agree my N95 browser is horrible. | 23:29 |
| wmarone | 123456 | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | the N95 is 2xxMHz, give it a break :P | 23:29 |
| wmarone | wrong window | 23:29 |
| trumee | what about serial download, single thread writing to a file (ie ftp/http download)? | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | and 64MB ram | 23:29 |
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| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: it's omap2420 afaik | 23:30 |
| crashanddie | wmarone: we know your password now :) | 23:30 |
| kerio | the n95's cpu sucks | 23:30 |
| trumee | so wifi n is only useful for streaming videos i guess? | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, yeah | 23:30 |
| kerio | ram was bumped to 128 with the us and the rev3 | 23:30 |
| nox- | moin | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, true | 23:31 |
| RST38h | 208MHz | 23:31 |
| trumee | if writing to the flash is a bottleneck, there is not much advantage of wifi n. | 23:31 |
| crashanddie | trumee: unless you're not writing to flash | 23:31 |
| kerio | trumee: more throughput = more speed if quality is degraded | 23:32 |
| trumee | crashanddie: so streaming videos is the only usecase for wifi n? | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | ... | 23:32 |
| trumee | gmail regular ajax webpage sucks on N900. is it any better on N8? | 23:33 |
| kerio | hah, i'd doubt it | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | this isn't ##symbian | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | who has an N8 in here anyways? | 23:34 |
| trumee | anybody compared gmail ajax page between microb/firefox/opera on N900? | 23:34 |
| * RST38h has touched N8 with his appendage | 23:34 | |
| RST38h | Is this relevant? =) | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | no :P | 23:34 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: is cpu the bottleneck for gmail ajax? | 23:35 |
| RST38h | Poor N8 isn't getting any love from bloggers, let us say something good about it here, at least | 23:35 |
| RST38h | trumee: memory, not cpu | 23:35 |
| MohammadAG | I really don't know what gmail ajax is | 23:36 |
| trumee | RST38h: ah, this is interesting. so ajax needs a lot of memory. more swap could be useful i guess | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, hardware is k, symbian is... | 23:36 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: regular webpage on www.gmail.com, not the html version | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | though the hardware is really similar to the N900's | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | never used it | 23:36 |
| RST38h | trumee: No. | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | modest is enough for me | 23:36 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: you need to have a gmail account to understand the lingo :p | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | I have a gmail account... | 23:37 |
| RST38h | trumee: It is not swap size that is a limiting factor. It is swap performance. | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | it's tied to my maemo.org account | 23:37 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: i use NM with gmail, but webpage is useful to carry out search on email. | 23:37 |
| RST38h | trumee: And yes, it has been discussed ad nauseam, and you can google it up | 23:37 |
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| * MohammadAG never searches his email | 23:38 | |
| Cheaziz | greetings everyone | 23:38 |
| trumee | RST38h: right, so guess we are stuck with slow performaing gmail webpage | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | if an email gets lost, I don't look for it | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 23:38 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: you use imap for gmail or NM? | 23:38 |
| RST38h | trumee: Yes, continue suffering, there is no way out. | 23:38 |
| Cheaziz | i need some help with a nokia phone. is this the right place? | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | NM | 23:38 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: i think NM holds only a few days email. | 23:38 |
| wmarone | Cheaziz: is it the N900 or some other Maemo-based device? | 23:39 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: plus gmail webpage has other interesting stuff as well like gtalk logs | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | I read my email every morning | 23:39 |
| Cheaziz | It's a N71x | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | and I never use gtalk outside the N900 :P | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | Cheaziz, afraid not | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | ~maemo | 23:39 |
| infobot | [maemo] http://maemo.nokia.com/ http://maemo.org/ http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml | 23:39 |
| Cheaziz | Does anyone know where I can get its User Manual? I googled a lot before I came here. | 23:40 |
| Cheaziz | What IS maemo, if I may ask? | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | links above :) | 23:40 |
| Cheaziz | lol | 23:40 |
| Cheaziz | Does N71x use it? | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 23:41 |
| Cheaziz | LOL | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | only the 770, N800, N810, and N900 use it | 23:41 |
| Cheaziz | Why cant I find the user manual for N71x? | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | europe.nokia.com | 23:41 |
| Cheaziz | Lemme see. | 23:41 |
| yacc | Ok, wondering, is it possible to use randr on the x11 server to increase the virtual desktop size? | 23:42 |
| yacc | *scratch-head* | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | xrandr works on the N900 I think | 23:43 |
| Cheaziz | MohammadAG: What is the website for Nokia US? | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG | nokia.com afaik, but I hate it | 23:43 |
| yacc | MohammadAG: The question is can it be used to increase the virtual screen size, ... | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG | sigh @ wikipedia | 23:43 |
| Cheaziz | Apparently the N71x is the E71, only called so by AT&T. | 23:44 |
| MohammadAG | 2x.2010.xx-xx Coming Soon (End of October or November 2010) PR1.3, Qt mobile, Updated Kernel to support Multiboot with MeeGO, bugs fix N900 | 23:44 |
| Cheaziz | Lemme see about E71. | 23:44 |
| MohammadAG | Qt mobile? multiboot? | 23:44 |
| MohammadAG | wtf | 23:44 |
| wmarone | 123456 | 23:45 |
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| wmarone | #$%^$^*@! | 23:45 |
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| yacc | Mohammed: only issue is that there seems no x11-server-utils in Extras/Testing. | 23:45 |
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| MohammadAG | Package x11-server-utils can not be found in packages. Lookup in Provides failed too. | 23:46 |
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| Cheaziz | Got it. Thanks MohammadAG. europe.nokia.com did it for me. I agree with you. NOKIA.COM sucks! | 23:47 |
| Cheaziz | bye all | 23:47 |
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| yacc | MohammadAG: well that's what provides xrandr on my Ubuntu box. | 23:47 |
| yacc | Anyone got an idea what access control the X11 server on the n900 uses? | 23:48 |
| javispedro | "everyone's invited?" | 23:48 |
| Corsac | yacc: no X11 at all | 23:49 |
| yacc | Corsac: ??? | 23:49 |
| yacc | Corsac: the N900 clearly uses X11 | 23:49 |
| asj_ | yacc: from the top of my head it uses -notcp (or what it's called) and then since it's effectivly user and root, there's not more access control needed | 23:51 |
| yacc | asj_: feared that. | 23:51 |
| yacc | asj_: so no way to run remote X11 clients, so no cheap way to experiment with xrandr :( | 23:52 |
| asj_ | yacc: ssh | 23:52 |
| javispedro | ssh redirection | 23:52 |
| yacc | asj_: no xauth binary either so, no working ssh -X | 23:52 |
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| javispedro | what you'd need -X for, just use -Y | 23:53 |
| yacc | asj_: and notcp means there is no port 6000 open to connect to either, so ssh does not work at all. | 23:53 |
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| javispedro | yacc: that's not true, modern versions of sshd redirect to socket | 23:53 |
| yacc | javispedro: notcp implies that the X11 server is only available via unix domain sockets, .. | 23:53 |
| javispedro | *unix socket | 23:53 |
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| javispedro | yacc: try it; use -Y or install xauth and use -X | 23:54 |
| yacc | javispedro: no such feature is mentioned in my host ssh manpage. | 23:54 |
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| asj_ | -Y is "new" in the last 5 years I think ;) | 23:55 |
| javispedro | yacc: I'm for some reason predicting your questions, would you mind trying it? =) | 23:55 |
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| yacc | Wow, that must have been a rather sick thing to do, showing an xterm from my host on the N900 while my host shows a copy of the N900 via vnc. | 23:59 |
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