| crashanddie | andre__: you're a student? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| andre__ | crashanddie, yes | 00:01 |
| crashanddie | damn | 00:01 |
| andre__ | nah, it's not that bad actually :-P | 00:02 |
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| andre__ | Because when I grow up, I want to become $something. | 00:02 |
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| tlir | guys, anyone tried android yet on the n810? | 00:02 |
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| crashanddie | I thought you were like a 30yo dude or summing | 00:02 |
| crashanddie | why are the same bloody questions coming up 24/7? | 00:03 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 00:03 | |
| *** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. | Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid" | 00:03 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 00:03 | |
| lcuk | crashanddie, how is your search tool getting on? or have you not had time? | 00:04 |
| crashanddie | not working on it at all | 00:04 |
| andre__ | crashanddie: nope, still not 30... but that wouldn't exclude student status either... :) | 00:04 |
| lcuk | could you push what you did do? | 00:04 |
| crashanddie | I could | 00:04 |
| alterego | I really like how the N900 maintains seperate internet connections for the phone and a tethered computer. | 00:05 |
| crashanddie | But anyone who understands Qt and can do a select in SQL is at the same point as I | 00:05 |
| alterego | It's funky :) | 00:05 |
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| RST38bis | lcuk: nah, I did not | 00:05 |
| alterego | And bluetooth | 00:05 |
| crashanddie | except I don't understand Qt | 00:05 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: I'll release a search lib end of next week, how's that? | 00:06 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, just put your knowledge in a post, if nothing happens, so what, but someone might use it to learn from | 00:06 |
| lcuk | thats cool | 00:06 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: then you just convince khertan to make a UI for it | 00:06 |
| lcuk | RST38bis, what was your first? | 00:06 |
| lcuk | no crashanddie | 00:06 |
| lcuk | we convince khertan and others to read the thread | 00:06 |
| lcuk | theres more in the community than just him! | 00:07 |
| RST38bis | lcuk: n810 | 00:07 |
| lcuk | RST38bis, was that because you just found out about them, or did you want a keyboard? | 00:07 |
| alterego | A UI For what? I've got some spare time and Qt skillz ;) | 00:08 |
| RST38bis | lcuk: nokia had a developer discount, I applied, ported my stuff to it | 00:08 |
| * lcuk nods | 00:09 | |
| crashanddie | alterego: we want to use the conversation UI to display search results | 00:09 |
| crashanddie | alterego: search would work on conversations mainly (sms and IM) | 00:09 |
| alterego | Hrm | 00:09 |
| crashanddie | alterego: conversation UI framework is there, and callable, just not documented | 00:09 |
| alterego | Hrm, cool. | 00:09 |
| alterego | So you have the ability to open a chat window with a specific message in view? | 00:10 |
| crashanddie | pretty much | 00:10 |
| alterego | Nice | 00:10 |
| alterego | Well, do a UI mockup and I'll have a go | 00:10 |
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| crashanddie | I want to get this injection driver out first | 00:11 |
| crashanddie | so that'll be tomorrow | 00:11 |
| crashanddie | as I said, I'll work on it next week | 00:11 |
| alterego | Okay, well, you know where to find me ;) | 00:11 |
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| crashanddie | Khertan_: ping | 00:12 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: what's pypackager? | 00:12 |
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| ieatlint | heh, i've spent the last two days listening to intel talk about meego | 00:20 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, pypackager is khertans package to package python apps | 00:21 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/pypackager/ | 00:21 |
| crashanddie | hmm | 00:21 |
| CreamyG | hey crashanddie, are you working on that mobile backtrack thing? | 00:22 |
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| crashanddie | CreamyG: not directly | 00:32 |
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| crashanddie | CreamyG: I got hold of the drivers, and have been working with some people to see how they worked exactly | 00:32 |
| crashanddie | working on packaging a single .deb which will load the injection drivers into the kernel when needed | 00:33 |
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| CreamyG | cool, that will be fun to play with. i hope they release a public beta or at least lower the donation requirement... | 00:34 |
| CreamyG | or are you saying the drivers will be for the standard os/kernel when you're done? | 00:35 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 00:35 |
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| crashanddie | well, you'll just need to install a modified power kernel | 00:36 |
| CreamyG | oooh even better then. dual booting is cool and all, but its nice to be able to receive calls :) | 00:36 |
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| crashanddie | there's no dual booting with neopwn | 00:36 |
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| crashanddie | it's a chroot, meaning you just click on an icon and it launches the app | 00:37 |
| crashanddie | you just eat plenty of RAM | 00:37 |
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| CreamyG | oh okay, i assumed it was a whole OS. | 00:38 |
| crashanddie | well, it's just an OS that runs on top of Maemo | 00:38 |
| crashanddie | just like easydebian, for example | 00:38 |
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| crashanddie | (neopwn is based on easydebian, AFAICT) | 00:38 |
| CreamyG | well i should just try it some time, but last i saw they wanted $20 | 00:39 |
| crashanddie | thing is | 00:39 |
| crashanddie | asking money for someone to be included in a beta isn't a donation | 00:40 |
| crashanddie | it's a fee. A purchase. | 00:40 |
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| CreamyG | yeah. well i dunno if that's good or bad, but i just don't wanna pay more than $5 for something in beta | 00:42 |
| crashanddie | It's bad | 00:42 |
| crashanddie | which is why I'm releasing the driver | 00:42 |
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| CreamyG | i'd be okay with it if it was $5, but more than that i worry that the coder may just quit and keep the money. anyways i should probalby get back to work, or i can't really judge people if i'm getting paid to do nothing all day lol | 00:47 |
| * CreamyG goes to make coffee | 00:48 | |
| crashanddie | You should work for the french government | 00:48 |
| crashanddie | now there's people who have graduated into getting paychecks for doing utterly nothing | 00:48 |
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| CreamyG | haha dude if this chan wasn't logged, i'd say which i work for lol... | 00:49 |
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| crashanddie | CreamyG: from what I can tell, you work for the Edmonton, Canada mayor's office. | 00:50 |
| CreamyG | of course i won't have found this chan if every google search for some build error didn't lead here | 00:50 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, i hate to break it to you, but how do you know that the binary you are about to distribute is based on the open code? (devils advocate here, you could be committing just as much a sin as you say this guy is doing) | 00:50 |
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| CreamyG | haha no, well i'm connected via my home computer so it won't show exactly thank god :P | 00:51 |
| crashanddie | CreamyG: good call. | 00:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, the kernel is licensed under the GPL | 00:51 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, so when somebody asks crashanddie for the source? | 00:51 |
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| MohammadAG51 | why should they? when he got a GPL licensed blob? | 00:52 |
| lcuk | you do not play games with licensing | 00:52 |
| lcuk | the same rules would apply to crashanddie as he says should apply | 00:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | tell it to the guy who's distributing a sourceless blob which is "maintained" by the stock kernel nokia guy | 00:52 |
| lcuk | the proper right thing to do now you have a binary is officially request the source | 00:52 |
| crashanddie | hey, I didn't say anything about his licence | 00:52 |
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| lcuk | and follow through that way | 00:52 |
| lcuk | no crashanddie but MohammadAG51 is right, if you are distributing a binary blob of the GPL kernel | 00:53 |
| lcuk | and modules etc | 00:53 |
| lcuk | you have to also follow the gpl | 00:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | he's not the guy at fault here | 00:53 |
| lcuk | and since you cannot supply the source yourself | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: sure I can | 00:53 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, he will be if he distributes the binary | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: if you want, I'll send it to you tomorrow morning | 00:53 |
| lcuk | i dont want it | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: it will compile no problem, into the .ko | 00:53 |
| lcuk | i am not interested | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | Just be prepared to read ASM | 00:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | GPL code can be legally disassembled I guess... | 00:54 |
| lcuk | contact the FSF | 00:54 |
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| lcuk | r whoever you have to do | 00:54 |
| crashanddie | I don't give a shit | 00:55 |
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| lcuk | but don't compound it by re-distributing something you know if GPL as binary | 00:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, and if the person distributing the blob doesn't push the source? | 00:55 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: and I'm not the author, I have no necessity to publish the source code | 00:55 |
| lcuk | http://gpl-violations.org/ | 00:55 |
| crashanddie | I haven't modified it, I'm not bound to publish anything | 00:55 |
| lcuk | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html | 00:56 |
| kerio | crashanddie: did you release neopwn? | 00:56 |
| lcuk | read the license carefully | 00:56 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, you have what you believe is offending binary code | 00:57 |
| nox- | moin | 00:57 |
| lcuk | follow due process | 00:57 |
| lcuk | and request source officially | 00:57 |
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| crashanddie | No | 00:57 |
| crashanddie | It won't change squat shit | 00:57 |
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| crashanddie | give me two weeks, and you'll have the source code, written by me. | 00:57 |
| lcuk | then report the violation back to the original copyright owner | 00:57 |
| crashanddie | in the meantime, I'm releasing what I have. | 00:58 |
| lcuk | and let them deal with it | 00:58 |
| crashanddie | I don't care whether you like it or not | 00:58 |
| crashanddie | If I remember, you're the one who didn't start liqbase as GPL in the first place | 00:58 |
| lcuk | no | 00:58 |
| crashanddie | if I remember, you're the one who didn't release source code | 00:58 |
| lcuk | i started it as closed source | 00:58 |
| lcuk | you are right | 00:58 |
| lcuk | and I learnt about it | 00:58 |
| lcuk | and I spent time finding out | 00:59 |
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| crashanddie | so don't come busting my nuts because I'm just pushing people over the edge rather than killing myself asking nicely for it | 00:59 |
| lcuk | and it was a carefully considered decision | 00:59 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, but this is already GPL code | 00:59 |
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| crashanddie | no, it's not. | 00:59 |
| lcuk | me coming from a closed source world changes nothing | 00:59 |
| crashanddie | for all we know, it isn't | 00:59 |
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| lcuk | then who has the copyright? | 00:59 |
| crashanddie | actually, I know, but you don't | 00:59 |
| lcuk | because its not your binary | 00:59 |
| crashanddie | there isn't any copyright provided with the binaries | 00:59 |
| kerio | can i have the binaries? | 01:00 |
| crashanddie | sure, email? | 01:00 |
| crashanddie | pm it | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, use strings on the .ko | 01:00 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: I suspect it is GPL due to a transcript I've read, of swc|666 ranting in another channel | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | license=GPL | 01:01 |
| crashanddie | aww crap | 01:01 |
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| MohammadAG51 | so, swc|666 should provide the sources of the blobs | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | otherwise he's violating the GPL | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Licence=GPL does not mean that it is GPL licence. | 01:02 |
| crashanddie | well, it is, actually | 01:02 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: hard to think of something else | 01:02 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: the driver is based off the wl1251 driver | 01:02 |
| crashanddie | which is GPL | 01:02 |
| crashanddie | and has been modified | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | there have - for example - been cases when COPYING was distributed on DVDs that were not GPL | 01:02 |
| crashanddie | so the changes should be released | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - k | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | indeed, so it's not crashanddie violating the GPL here | 01:03 |
| crashanddie | well, I understand lcuk's point | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It is if he's further redistributing. | 01:03 |
| crashanddie | I'm helping in the distribution of code that violates the GPL | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It's _everyones_ fault that redistributes without source. | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | And they all have the obligation to provide source. | 01:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | then swc|666 has to do that, not crashanddie | 01:03 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: does C code with the function list but ASM inside count as code? | 01:03 |
| crashanddie | cuz I have that | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course - if they don't have it - that's tricky - but it's no different than a router maker that ships the router without GPL source as they weren't given it. | 01:04 |
| crashanddie | and it compiles (kinda) | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | well, can't crashanddie just change licenses? | 01:04 |
| crashanddie | nope | 01:04 |
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| crashanddie | Well, I could just include a GPL licence with swc|666's details as the author, so he gets the problems, not me :P | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Because someone is violating GPL does not give you the right to that code. | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | If I take mplayer, patch it and release it, I'm violating GPL. | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | however, you do not have the right to take that code, and slap a GPL on it - even if you have the actual code. | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | swc|666, mind pitching in? | 01:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | Me violating the license does not give you the licence to code I wrote. | 01:06 |
| crashanddie | ok, and if I reverse engineer the ASM and re-implement it myself, am I still violating? | 01:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | That's beyond my knowledge. | 01:07 |
| wmarone | crashanddie: probably, but it could be argued that the code is "contaminted" | 01:07 |
| wmarone | contaminated* | 01:07 |
| crashanddie | do you mean "tainted"? | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Consider though that you can do the same for windows. | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | And I'm sure Microsoft would be very unhappy. | 01:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | (though it would take a couple of weeks more than doing the wl* drivers) | 01:08 |
| wmarone | crashanddie: iirc, that's the phrasing they used when reverse engineering the BIOS decades ago | 01:08 |
| crashanddie | except that Microsoft would attack me on other things | 01:08 |
| crashanddie | patents, trademarks | 01:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | My latest fun licence related realisation has been that if you have a TPM system - or one where the user can't access running binaries - you can get round GPL entirely by shipping the user the (encrypted) source, and compiling on device. | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | When it gets to the user. | 01:10 |
| GAN900 | Seems like way too much work. | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | The nasty licence conditions - requiring release of source code - are not triggered - as you're not distribting object, and you just have to say it's GPL. | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | (2 only) | 01:11 |
| crashanddie | there is no notice saying I'm not allowed to reverse engineer/decompile. There is just a string that says "GPL". Microsoft's licence however says I'm not allowed to do such things. | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | i'm off | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | night | 01:14 |
| crashanddie | night MohammadAG51 | 01:15 |
| crashanddie | I would've loved swc|666's input though. | 01:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | Without the licence, the only - sanely legal - interpretation is that you have no licence to do anything other than the author implied | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | but ... | 01:17 |
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| crashanddie | Well, sue me. | 01:21 |
| crashanddie | If you manage to find out my home address, anyway. | 01:21 |
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| alterego | Heh, there's two actors from BSG so far. | 01:29 |
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| * luke-jr got banned from swc|666's channel for calling them out on it | 01:31 | |
| wmarone | heh | 01:32 |
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| crashanddie | their channel? | 01:32 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: ASM doesn't qualify as source unless it really is source. read the GPL | 01:33 |
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| crashanddie | and reverse engineering? | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | [16:55:57] <crashanddie> I haven't modified it, I'm not bound to publish anything | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | not true, GPL requires you to publish it regardless | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | or rather, include it | 01:33 |
| crashanddie | no I have to provide a way to get it | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: reverse engineering is a fair use right | 01:33 |
| crashanddie | I can even ask for money for the "making available of the sources" | 01:33 |
| kerio | luke-jr: what if my asm really looks like something outputted by gcc? | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: you have to include the source, or make it available to anyoen who asks (and include a notice saying so) | 01:34 |
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| luke-jr | kerio: GCC output isn't source | 01:34 |
| crashanddie | and GCC input? | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: they have some channel… I don't know what it is anymore | 01:34 |
| kerio | but asm can be | 01:34 |
| crashanddie | As I said, I have C code that compiles and produces the .ko | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: source code is defined by the GPL as the preferred form of making modifications | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: so it has to be the real source | 01:34 |
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| luke-jr | with comments and everything | 01:35 |
| crashanddie | so if I reverse engineer it and re-implement it in the wl1251 code, I'm good | 01:35 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: should be, but I think not on a technicality | 01:35 |
| luke-jr | there's 2 ways to violate the GPL ;) | 01:35 |
| luke-jr | 1. contract infringement | 01:35 |
| luke-jr | 2. copyright infringement | 01:35 |
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| luke-jr | in both cases, though, swc|666 still owns the modifications | 01:36 |
| crashanddie | actually, he owns fuck all | 01:36 |
| luke-jr | on the other hand, Copyright Law does protect your right to reverse engineer it by default | 01:36 |
| crashanddie | the guy who wrote the modified driver owns everything | 01:36 |
| luke-jr | so unless he forced you to sign to not doing so… | 01:36 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: at least in the USA, if you're paid to do something, the person who paid you holds copyright | 01:36 |
| crashanddie | not true | 01:37 |
| crashanddie | depends on the contract | 01:37 |
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| luke-jr | contract can spell out other terms, but the default is the employer owns it | 01:37 |
| crashanddie | employer being the keyword here | 01:38 |
| crashanddie | and unless there's an employer/employee relationship, there is no transfer of copyright | 01:38 |
| crashanddie | not defacto, anyway | 01:38 |
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| luke-jr | well then, who wrote it? :P | 01:38 |
| luke-jr | tho presumably they provided swc|666 with the source up front | 01:39 |
| luke-jr | which means they have no obligation to send it | 01:39 |
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| crashanddie | no | 01:40 |
| crashanddie | he never had the source if I understand it correctly | 01:40 |
| crashanddie | and won't until he finishes paying the dude | 01:40 |
| luke-jr | … | 01:40 |
| luke-jr | he told me he paid for it out of pocket up front | 01:41 |
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| crashanddie | again, this is my memory from an IRC transcript, but "the dude" said he'd release the source under GPL 6 months down the line anyway | 01:41 |
| luke-jr | ew | 01:41 |
| luke-jr | I'm not sure the GPL has a time limit on fulfillign the request | 01:41 |
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| crashanddie | well, my understanding is that he has creditors who, it's like a whole fucking mafia film | 01:42 |
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| luke-jr | yeah, I don't see a time limit in the GPL | 01:42 |
| luke-jr | at least not GPL-2 | 01:43 |
| luke-jr | which means he could just take 6 months to fill any requests for source :/ | 01:43 |
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| luke-jr | wow, that's a pretty gaping loophole… | 01:44 |
| crashanddie | well, there you go. If anyone asks for the source, I'll just say "Due to high demand, we are expecting up to 12 months handling time. Please provide payment for postal services of delivery of the source code in advance" | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, if you modify a GPL'd code, you have the obligation to deliver the code with the binary, but you're not obliged to publish the binary to anybody. So original author has a problem at max with neopwn dude | 01:44 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: you need to offer it up front. you can't wait for someone to ask | 01:44 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: not quite | 01:44 |
| luke-jr | the code need not be delivered with the binary as long as you include an offer | 01:45 |
| luke-jr | and that offer has no time limit on filling it | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | even that | 01:45 |
| luke-jr | just on cost | 01:45 |
| crashanddie | well, then my offer is as such: "Should you wish to access the source code, feel free to mail your request to <insert PO box here>" | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | but the point is, no binary, no code. and binary ships to anybody on *your* discretion | 01:45 |
| luke-jr | "Expected handling time is 2 years. Your request can be expediated to a week for a fee of $2000" | 01:46 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: except that swc|666 is shipping the binary to anyone who pays a fee | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | original author just shiped to neopwn, so also the source code will be shipped to neopwn | 01:46 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: if you go with the 'offer' option, you're obliged to honour a request from anyone, not just who you send the binary to. | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: so that's his problem then, not original authors' | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Only if they can find you. | 01:47 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: which in this case, is near impossible | 01:47 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: you're obliged regardless. but obviously you can't request w/o finding them :p | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: If you go and live as a hermit, they can't require you! | 01:47 |
| crashanddie | and if the offer to provide source code says swc|666 as the contact to obtain source code? | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui the requirement to offer source code is implicitly bound to the continuous act of shipping the binary. And also implicitly is limited to those receiving the binary, either directly or by third party, as long as you are still involved in the shipping | 01:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GPL is tailored against commerce, not primarily against somebody uploading a modified binary to rapidshare | 01:55 |
| crashanddie | so as soon as I upload it, and say I'm done, I'm no longer bound to provide source code? | 01:55 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: uh, no | 01:55 |
| crashanddie | Considering I'm | 01:56 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: FSF encourages commerce | 01:56 |
| crashanddie | Considering I'm "no longer involved in the shipping" | 01:56 |
| crashanddie | http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/lxr/source/drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx/wl1251_main.c | 01:56 |
| crashanddie | I've got the initial code | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: why do you think you ever were ? you got the binary under any contract mentioning GPL? | 01:56 |
| crashanddie | nope | 01:56 |
| luke-jr | then you can't upload it period | 01:56 |
| luke-jr | that's copyright infringement | 01:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: so why do you bother about GPL then? | 01:57 |
| crashanddie | I'll just diff the initial branch code with the one that works for injection | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe the code has nothing to do with GPL at all | 01:57 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: "b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give *any third party*, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange;" | 01:57 |
| crashanddie | and reimplement the features that are missing | 01:57 |
| crashanddie | "machine-readable copy" | 01:57 |
| crashanddie | OK, I know how i'll do this | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: third party is anybody *involved* in the issue, so I can't ask for source of which I never got a binary | 01:58 |
| luke-jr | "The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable." | 01:58 |
| crashanddie | dunno if tomorrow will be enough | 01:58 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: yeah yeah, it's all good | 01:58 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: I'll provide all that | 01:59 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: no, "You" means anybody receiving the binary. | 01:59 |
| luke-jr | wait, not quite in this context | 01:59 |
| luke-jr | I suppose it can be argued to be ambiguous. | 02:00 |
| luke-jr | but "any third party" certainly seems to be more vauge than "any recipient" | 02:00 |
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| vanadismobile | is there a local logfile for mail for exchange? | 02:02 |
| vanadismobile | i just got an exchange server error and it's not synchronising | 02:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: you're perfectly safe to publish in whatever form you like. You received a binary, maybe repackaged it, and distribute a binary. You never signed or accepted any contract. So if anybody comes and tries to prove your binary being a copy of his copyrighted work, you can shoot back and prove it's a derived work from a GPL'd source and you're free to distribute this work, as original author of the original binary you copied can't | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | explain how he can legally violate GPL on his binary but otoh request you to obey a copyright he obviously doesn't hold | 02:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and you got no liabilities to anybody but the 'copyright holder' of that binary | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: you can't just redistribute/publish any binary you receive | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure you can, see crashanddie - he does | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | and you wouldn't be infringing just on swc's copyright, but all the copyright holders to the wl12xx driver | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: illegally | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | you just have to prepare to get sued for it | 02:10 |
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| luke-jr | so much for 'perfectly safe' | 02:10 |
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| luke-jr | where did he publish it, anyhow? | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | ;) | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you're not aware of any other copyright holders | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: irrelevant. | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | BS | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | you don't need to be aware of the copyright holders to infringe on it | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | by default, you cannot publish any software unless you made it yourself from scratch | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ofc any of the original (C) holders (the real ones) can sue you | 02:12 |
| luke-jr | even if there's no copyright declared on it | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you'll happily add his GPL and (C) notice, and the parts of code he claims is his | 02:12 |
| luke-jr | I would venture to guess that no original copyright holder of wl12xx would sue crashanddie, since it's not really his fault | 02:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and if that'S not enough you have to stop publishing, as you don't have any better source | 02:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: the term 'you can not' is largely inadequate in this stage of discussion | 02:14 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's what I figured for some time now | 02:14 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: I'm going to release the binary form, and then work on re-implementing it myself if neopwn doesn't want to release | 02:14 |
| * luke-jr ponders if hex editing a binary arguably makes it the 'source code' if you have nothing more readable | 02:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | even that | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: if I were you, I'd just check with the original copyright holders first | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: get their blessing | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: DAMN, who are they??? | 02:15 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: the link I showed earlier are the original copyright holders | 02:15 |
| crashanddie | http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/lxr/source/drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx/wl1251_main.c | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: oh you were serious? | 02:15 |
| crashanddie | I'm going to use that code, and will be able to fill in the gaps easily | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you can'tknow who they are | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: why not? | 02:16 |
| crashanddie | How hard can it be? | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | it's part of mainline | 02:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | uhuh, says who? | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | … | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | you compared the binary to some original mainline module? | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie did, as I underrstand it | 02:17 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: I decompiled the binary, and am cutting through it as we speak | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, he's going to do that, and as soon as he gets to know I'm sure he'll let the authors know what's going on | 02:17 |
| crashanddie | pasting the GPL code that is available and noticing the mismatches between the GPL code and the ASM code | 02:17 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: did their binary happen to have a string identifying the exact compiler used? | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | yes | 02:18 |
| luke-jr | you could conceivably do a binary diff on it ;) | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | until then he's free to distribute the binary and wait to get sued by swc, what never will happen | 02:18 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: or any other copyright holder | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: how would that help? | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: oh, in noticing where the changes are? | 02:18 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: exactly | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: just for not including GPL | 02:19 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: for not including the source code | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | fuck, that's BS, he has no src | 02:19 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: GPL says in that case, you cannot distribute at all | 02:19 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: except I don't have the GPL at all with the binaries | 02:19 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: so how am I supposed to enforce it? | 02:19 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: anyhow, like I said, I'd suggest emailing the wl12xx original authors, summarizing the violation, and asking for them to release you from the GPL in this instance | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | tell me where that's written please. And then prove to me how GPL is to apply to a unknown binary | 02:20 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: you can't enforce it. | 02:20 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: legally, you can't distribute the binary at all | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | says who? | 02:20 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: Copyright Law and GPL | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | I was given the binary, with the mention "Do with it as you please, I'm washing my hands off it" | 02:20 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: again, if you assume it's not GPL, then you can't distribute it period under any conditions | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | who cares about GPL | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ????? | 02:20 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: f u | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: I can whole day long | 02:21 |
| crashanddie | chill guys | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | who's going to stop me? | 02:21 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: with that attitude, I'd sue you if I held the copyright. | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: for sure NOT you | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't | 02:22 |
| lcuk | holy shit | 02:22 |
| crashanddie | ok, no need to get personal | 02:22 |
| lcuk | liqflow on livewp single view is awesome | 02:22 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: yeah, you launched a hairy topic, it's still going strong | 02:22 |
| lcuk | i didn't launch it | 02:22 |
| luke-jr | GPL: "If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence *you may not distribute the Program at all*." | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: stop quoting irrelevant nonsense | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | the binary isn't under GPL, that's the whole point | 02:23 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: pretty sure you did guv :P 23:50 < lcuk> crashanddie, i hate to break it to you, but how do you know that the binary you are about to distribute is based on the open code? (devils advocate here, you could be committing just as much a sin as you say this guy is doing) | 02:23 |
| luke-jr | fine then | 02:23 |
| luke-jr | Copyright Law: """" You may not distribute the program at all, period, unless you have permission from the copyright holder." | 02:23 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, oh, that yeah. | 02:23 |
| luke-jr | """" = paraphrased | 02:23 |
| lcuk | and DocScrutinizer - there is reasonable doubt since everyone was bitching that its exactly what happened | 02:24 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: again, that depends on the country | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: and who's going to sue me? | 02:24 |
| lcuk | i merely observed that crashanddie would be in the same situation | 02:24 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: every country I know of defaults to "you cannot distribute" | 02:24 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: aye | 02:24 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: any copyright holder | 02:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 02:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | we've been there twice before | 02:25 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: Kazakhstan copyright law doesn't. | 02:25 |
| luke-jr | so move to Kazakhstan | 02:25 |
| lcuk | seriously though crashanddie - liqflow is behind everything on the desktop, its awesome | 02:25 |
| crashanddie | didn't you know? I live there. | 02:25 |
| crashanddie | I mean here. | 02:25 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: how so? | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you don't know who's copyright holder, you don't know which copyright the binary is under. So you can't assume anything in advance... | 02:26 |
| lcuk | vasvlad has added live wallpapers, and he spent time adding support for any application, liqbase ones as well | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | but honestly, seeya peeps | 02:26 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: in that case, you can't distribute it period | 02:26 |
| lcuk | so it lives behind all the icons and stuff | 02:26 |
| lcuk | and runs at its full speed :) | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | period yourself. I can | 02:26 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: oooh, shiny | 02:26 |
| lcuk | indeed! | 02:27 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, it includes all the x11screensavers too! | 02:28 |
| lcuk | about 100 of them :D | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Oook! | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I want xlock -inroot -mode flame... | 02:28 |
| lcuk | xflame Yes Continuous High http://wiki.maemo.org/Xscreensaver | 02:32 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, ^ | 02:32 |
| lcuk | theres the list of the xscreensavers with notes about cpu use etc | 02:32 |
| lcuk | of course, theres also gas balls in ovi store as well | 02:33 |
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| lcuk | which is opengl based | 02:33 |
| alterego | I like gas balls | 02:33 |
| alterego | I might work on something similar once I've plowed through my projects. | 02:33 |
| lcuk | sure | 02:33 |
| lcuk | technically you can take any standard app | 02:33 |
| lcuk | and add a config file | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 02:34 |
| lcuk | and it will be runnable in the livewp | 02:34 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders. | 02:34 | |
| SpeedEvil | mplayer? | 02:35 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, its got movie support anyway | 02:36 |
| lcuk | thats another feature lol | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 02:36 |
| lcuk | he just added the "one wallpaper for all desktops tweak | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | A 'live' virtual sky background would be awesome. | 02:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | But for that, I'd need to install the compass. | 02:37 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, i think someone already did a video for that | 02:37 |
| lcuk | hah | 02:37 |
| lcuk | it doesnt have to be that real :P | 02:37 |
| lcuk | nice thing | 02:37 |
| lcuk | it supports up/down strokes | 02:37 |
| lcuk | so i might put calendar on there or something | 02:38 |
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| lcuk | as it stands now whilst swiping the desktop, i am loving liqflow flowing :D | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:39 |
| lcuk | i should make the strokes erode with time | 02:39 |
| lcuk | so that the flow slows back down | 02:39 |
| alterego | I wrote a nice little QWidget that allows horziontal or vertical view swiping. | 02:41 |
| alterego | Been using it in my apps. | 02:41 |
| lcuk | alterego, cool beans | 02:41 |
| alterego | It is a really cool UX design pattern | 02:42 |
| alterego | I feel quite cool doing it :) | 02:42 |
| lcuk | does it move to next "tile" like the desktop does | 02:42 |
| lcuk | or swipe continuous | 02:42 |
| alterego | It slides to the next tile. | 02:42 |
| lcuk | wow, the YUV overlay even shows through transparency on widgets | 02:43 |
| alterego | Yeah, | 02:43 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, whats the simplest way to flash the led light (any colour?) | 02:50 |
| alterego | All done via dbus | 02:51 |
| alterego | I thought | 02:51 |
| alterego | You can get it to execute any of the patterns in the mce config file. | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: echo > file | 02:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | Or yes - dbus if you just want it to flash and any pattern is OK | 02:55 |
| lcuk | i just want to make it flash for a quick test in the frame renderer | 02:55 |
| lcuk | to make sure when screensaver comes on | 02:55 |
| lcuk | it actually stops | 02:55 |
| lcuk | errr screen dims | 02:56 |
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| alterego | Check out fcam | 02:57 |
| alterego | See how they do it. | 02:57 |
| lcuk | its ok | 02:57 |
| lcuk | i just running top over ssh | 02:57 |
| lcuk | was thinking overly complex | 02:57 |
| lcuk | :) | 02:57 |
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| alterego | lcuk: easy: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/fcamera/trunk/src/LEDBlinker.cpp?root=fcam&view=markup | 03:00 |
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| lcuk | cool, thanks | 03:02 |
| lcuk | alterego, :D am done though, cpu drops at the expected times (ie whenever desktop obscured, or screen is off) | 03:02 |
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| alterego | fair nuff | 03:03 |
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| ShadSEC | Anyone has a tree of full untouched PR1.2 rootfs with md5sums of each file? | 03:47 |
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| ShadSEC | whats the right way to ship some app for n900? To have it all on a /opt/ subdir and then create symlinks on /usr/bin, etc ? | 04:00 |
| lcuk | yes thats a reasonable mechanism, to get the pr1.2 files, you could extract the image by the way | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | that's annoying, as it's a UBIFS image | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | and you've got to do a stupid dance. | 04:02 |
| ShadSEC | thx, i thought about maybe doing that but perhaps someone already had a lists of checksums | 04:03 |
| lcuk | yeah someone mightv, but not seen it myself | 04:03 |
| lcuk | anyway, gnite | 04:03 |
| ShadSEC | night lcuk | 04:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | meant to generate one when I flashed - but I forgort. | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 04:04 |
| ShadSEC | Would be useful to have an script search for and tell all differences from time to time | 04:04 |
| ShadSEC | to check for apps not doing its job.... | 04:05 |
| ShadSEC | I only have 23MB free on rotfs | 04:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | gfind / -mount -ctime -20 | 04:07 |
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| ShadSEC | mmmm, right! | 04:08 |
| ShadSEC | what the difference between gfind and find btw? | 04:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | gfind is the gnu find | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | find is the broken busybox one | 04:11 |
| ShadSEC | thx | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-get install findutils | 04:11 |
| ShadSEC | yep, i had it installed, I thought it was just replacing the symlinks for busybox with the real tools | 04:14 |
| ShadSEC | didn't know about the g prefix | 04:14 |
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| ShadSEC | ugh, there are lots of offenders :S | 04:28 |
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| ShadSEC | gezz, whats wrong with the people, it isnt that hard to place the files in the right place | 04:54 |
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| air | is there a way to show what packages have been installed from each repository? | 05:12 |
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| fredrin | n900 ftw | 06:00 |
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| fredrin | DocScrutinizer, ping | 06:00 |
| fredrin | DocScrutinizer, what's your swappiness? | 06:01 |
| fredrin | and /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster? | 06:02 |
| fredrin | and /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster | 06:02 |
| fredrin | double | 06:03 |
| fredrin | wups | 06:03 |
| fredrin | hehe | 06:03 |
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| fredrin | any way, hope all is good DocScrutinizer | 06:08 |
| fredrin | :) | 06:08 |
| fredrin | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48966&page=2 | 06:08 |
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| ShadowJK | 5 page-cluster 100 sw0piness is default on n900 | 06:10 |
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| ShadowJK | 0 page-cluseter sounds, well, very stupid | 06:12 |
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| fredrin | ShadowJK, know | 06:14 |
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| PsyCl0ne | Hi all could someone direct me to where I could get help with my E71 please. | 06:15 |
| fredrin | only bad thing it got too sensitive in my pocket | 06:15 |
| *** g55 has quit IRC | 06:15 | |
| fredrin | nokia care | 06:15 |
| PsyCl0ne | Thank you | 06:16 |
| fredrin | np | 06:16 |
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| CiNc018 | can i get some help please | 06:16 |
| fredrin | sure | 06:17 |
| fredrin | that will be 100¤ | 06:17 |
| CiNc018 | :-() | 06:18 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 06:18 |
| CiNc018 | ;-( | 06:18 |
| fredrin | heh | 06:18 |
| fredrin | what problem is? | 06:18 |
| CiNc018 | im trying to rebirth my n800 | 06:18 |
| johnx | that sounds painful, and may involve medical complications | 06:19 |
| CiNc018 | my n800 is stuck on a constant reboot | 06:19 |
| CiNc018 | lol@johnx | 06:19 |
| fredrin | /etc/hostname? | 06:19 |
| PsyCl0ne | Execuse me fredrin nothing comes up for nokia care | 06:19 |
| CiNc018 | i dont understand fredrin | 06:20 |
| ShadowJK | CiNc018, it starts rebooting when you plug in charger? | 06:20 |
| fredrin | PsyCl0ne, insurans then | 06:20 |
| johnx | CiNc018: is it backed up? do you just want to reflash it? | 06:20 |
| CiNc018 | nah it starts reboot when i turn it on | 06:20 |
| fredrin | beer in keyboard? | 06:20 |
| johnx | PsyCl0ne: he means: nokia customer service | 06:20 |
| CiNc018 | i want to reeflash it. nothing important on there | 06:20 |
| PsyCl0ne | *facepalm* ok thank you | 06:20 |
| CiNc018 | lol | 06:21 |
| CiNc018 | ju velcome | 06:21 |
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| CiNc018 | now i have it on update mode.... and i have maemo flasher 3.5 open already | 06:21 |
| johnx | PsyCl0ne: there may also be a symbian channel. they might be able to help there | 06:21 |
| fredrin | gl | 06:22 |
| CiNc018 | so u dont know about reflashing it? | 06:23 |
| PsyCl0ne | johnx: ah thanks | 06:23 |
| fredrin | only done reflash on Openmoko freerunner | 06:23 |
| fredrin | takes time | 06:23 |
| fredrin | boring | 06:23 |
| CiNc018 | i have time... | 06:24 |
| bef0rd | !firmware | 06:24 |
| fredrin | time is good | 06:24 |
| CiNc018 | since im watchign dragon ball z | 06:24 |
| bef0rd | uhm it was something like that | 06:24 |
| bef0rd | !flasher | 06:24 |
| fredrin | humkay | 06:24 |
| bef0rd | :( bad bot infobot | 06:24 |
| fredrin | flash or gtfo | 06:24 |
| fredrin | lol | 06:24 |
| ShadowJK | iirc I started flashed, connected usb cable, started N8x0, to flash them.. | 06:25 |
| fredrin | wow | 06:25 |
| ShadowJK | or maybe it wasn't u, it was something else on n8x0 | 06:25 |
| fredrin | wT N8X0 | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: does NOLO work? | 06:26 |
| CiNc018 | im having trouble understanding the how to on maemo.org | 06:26 |
| CiNc018 | wats nolo? | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | ……. | 06:26 |
| fredrin | err | 06:26 |
| fredrin | late | 06:26 |
| CiNc018 | im newe to all this sorry | 06:26 |
| fredrin | 05:27 | 06:26 |
| nox- | ~firmware | 06:26 |
| infobot | firmware is probably hardware that is beginning to melt Firmware for GrandStream phones is at http://www.hellofone.com/files/ | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | fail | 06:27 |
| * fredrin drunk :D | 06:27 | |
| luke-jr | wtf do GrandStream phones have to do with N900? | 06:27 |
| nox- | hah | 06:27 |
| fredrin | no se | 06:27 |
| bef0rd | ~flashing | 06:27 |
| infobot | i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 06:27 |
| fredrin | wat | 06:27 |
| nox- | i think that bot is in like 500 #s so maybe some factoids got mixed up :) | 06:28 |
| CiNc018 | yes thats what im reading now... | 06:28 |
| ShadowJK | every channel infobot sits in thinks infobot doesn't sit in any other channel | 06:28 |
| CiNc018 | thats the site im on right now. | 06:28 |
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| fredrin | infobot is a nerd | 06:28 |
| fredrin | jeje | 06:29 |
| fredrin | nait | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | [22:29:20] [Whois] infobot is a user on channels: #asterisk | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | [22:29:20] [Whois] infobot has voice on channels: #maemo | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | guess ~firmware is for #asterisk | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 06:29 |
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| fredrin | *charging* | 06:29 |
| CiNc018 | i have my n800 on update mode and connected to usb | 06:29 |
| fredrin | gl | 06:30 |
| CiNc018 | so how do i start flashing this device? | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | …….. | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | READ IT | 06:30 |
| bef0rd | CiNc018, you must start flasher-3.5 first, and when it says waiting for usb device, you plug the n800 | 06:30 |
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| CiNc018 | ohhhh | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | err | 06:31 |
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| luke-jr | just leave it plugged in the whole time | 06:31 |
| CiNc018 | okay ... let me do it like u said | 06:31 |
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| luke-jr | run flasher and it should catch the next reboot | 06:31 |
| CiNc018 | so i shouldnt put my n800 in update mode? | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: how would you do that? | 06:32 |
| bef0rd | I had to press the swap button for my n810 when turning it on, not sure about the n800 | 06:33 |
| CiNc018 | well first devise is off and usb is unplugged | 06:33 |
| CiNc018 | wats a swap button? | 06:33 |
| air | app switcher | 06:34 |
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| luke-jr | bef0rd: there is no swap button… | 06:35 |
| CiNc018 | wat does this mean? <arg> | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | oh | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | that key | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | never had to press it.. | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: nevermind, just plug the USB in, run flasher, and turn it on | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: note that plugging power in = turn on | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | also be aware your battery is probably useless by now | 06:37 |
| CiNc018 | useless? | 06:37 |
| luke-jr | yes | 06:37 |
| luke-jr | as in, it will probably be dead within 5 minutes from a full charge | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | at least mine is | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | and I jsut got it spring 2009 (N810) | 06:38 |
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| air | my first n810 battery lasted 1.5 years and then it doubled in size and only lasted 30 minutes | 06:39 |
| luke-jr | doubled in size? | 06:40 |
| CiNc018 | okay i did wat u said, and flasher said flashing compl;ete | 06:40 |
| CiNc018 | now what | 06:40 |
| air | the battery thickness doubled | 06:40 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: now reboot it | 06:40 |
| luke-jr | air: wtf | 06:40 |
| CiNc018 | disconnect usb? | 06:40 |
| luke-jr | and power | 06:41 |
| air | it didn't explode so all was good :) | 06:41 |
| luke-jr | also, unplug your computer, and lights | 06:41 |
| luke-jr | turn everything else off, then go to sleep | 06:41 |
| luke-jr | and forget the N800 ever existed | 06:41 |
| luke-jr | when you wake up in the morning, it will be as good as new | 06:41 |
| CreamyG | haha wow i would have thrown that battery out | 06:41 |
| CiNc018 | rofl lmfao | 06:42 |
| luke-jr | don't forget to brush your teeth and stuff | 06:42 |
| CiNc018 | the stuff is brushed i guess i did it backwards | 06:42 |
| air | CreamyG: only after the battery cover was bulged and would no longer stay shut :) | 06:42 |
| CreamyG | yeah i would have thought it would do that right before it explodes... | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | or leaks acid all over you | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | so you have to go to the ER | 06:43 |
| CreamyG | but i guess that's the kind of quality you get with a genuine nokia battery | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | and get your hand amputated | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | then you need speech recognition because you can't type | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | which Maemo doesn't have | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | so you need to go spend money on Android | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | etc | 06:43 |
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| CreamyG | li-po is a lot safer, the e71 BP-4L is like that | 06:44 |
| CiNc018 | i think ill sell my n800 and get an archos tablet | 06:44 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: don't expect more than $100 or so | 06:44 |
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| luke-jr | if that much | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | CiNc018, be warned the Archos isn't at all hacker friendly. | 06:45 |
| CiNc018 | im doing it for 200 | 06:45 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: nobody will buy | 06:45 |
| PsyCl0ne | ill give you S=H | 06:45 |
| CiNc018 | grrr. then i hate archos... so what is hacker friendly :-) | 06:45 |
| PsyCl0ne | s+h | 06:45 |
| CreamyG | haha it's not a phone man | 06:45 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: Freerunner | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | CiNc018, N900 is reasonably hacker friendly, although not the same sort of device. | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Freerunner is the most of the group | 06:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | but it's really old hardware. | 06:46 |
| luke-jr | Freerunner is a phone though | 06:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Might wait to see where the N9 goes. | 06:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | As it'll drop prices at the very least. | 06:46 |
| luke-jr | N9 is supposed to be more open? | 06:46 |
| CiNc018 | hey i wonder if i can install android on my n800?> | 06:46 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: hahaha | 06:46 |
| CiNc018 | wa? lol | 06:46 |
| * luke-jr never understood why one would want Android on a N8x0 | 06:47 | |
| CreamyG | there's an old nitdroid for n800 but i'd not want that either | 06:47 |
| luke-jr | it's not like it will grow cellular capability | 06:47 |
| CiNc018 | i just like to hack my gadgets... | 06:47 |
| luke-jr | CiNc018: Freerunner has some interesting new developments if you want a phone | 06:48 |
| CiNc018 | i do it for the amazement lol | 06:48 |
| CiNc018 | let me youtube freerunner | 06:48 |
| CreamyG | yeah i bought stuff for my n800 to make it into a web based power relay switch so i can turn my desktop computer on and off with it | 06:48 |
| luke-jr | they're getting the cellular modem firmware replaced with an open one | 06:48 |
| CiNc018 | i hope its not a person who is running freely | 06:48 |
| CiNc018 | openmoko neo freerunner? thats the full name of it | 06:49 |
| CiNc018 | ? | 06:49 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 06:49 |
| CiNc018 | awww it looks like a tablet gave birth to it | 06:50 |
| luke-jr | lol | 06:51 |
| CiNc018 | i had an hp tc 1000 and traded it for my n800 i have now | 06:52 |
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| luke-jr | I wouldn't trade my SL-C760 for any other device so far | 06:53 |
| luke-jr | unfortunately, its battery is useless too | 06:53 |
| CiNc018 | oooo wat it is? | 06:54 |
| luke-jr | maybe 8-10 years old now | 06:54 |
| luke-jr | handheld computer | 06:54 |
| luke-jr | cost me like $800-$900 back in the day | 06:54 |
| CiNc018 | oooo | 06:55 |
| luke-jr | but had the best keyboard ever | 06:55 |
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| CiNc018 | and now its worth a bag of special pretzels? | 06:56 |
| luke-jr | lol | 06:56 |
| Xisdibik | luke whose the person who made the marina theme, i forgot :/ | 06:56 |
| luke-jr | I'd still use it if the battery wasn't dead… and it had more RAM :/ | 06:56 |
| luke-jr | Xisdibik: wtf is that | 06:57 |
| Xisdibik | a theme for the N900 | 06:57 |
| luke-jr | how would I know | 06:57 |
| luke-jr | I use defaults | 06:57 |
| luke-jr | like always | 06:57 |
| Xisdibik | because your here all the tim :P | 06:57 |
| Xisdibik | time* | 06:57 |
| luke-jr | you're* | 06:57 |
| luke-jr | pwnt | 06:57 |
| Xisdibik | :p | 06:57 |
| luke-jr | and I would have accepted 'tim' | 06:57 |
| Xisdibik | and u pay attention to detail ^ | 06:57 |
| CiNc018 | lol | 06:57 |
| luke-jr | cuz Tonal time is in units of 'tim's | 06:57 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 06:58 |
| * Xisdibik pokes luke-jr with some sigh | 06:58 | |
| luke-jr | anyhow | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | if I'm here all the time | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | that means I'm here too much | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | so I better go | 06:58 |
| Xisdibik | nope | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | do something productive | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | :P | 06:58 |
| Xisdibik | we love you being here | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | haha yeah right | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | except when everyone wants my head on a platter | 06:59 |
| Xisdibik | which is never......(always?) | 06:59 |
| CiNc018 | hey luke. do u know if there was ever a solution for the hardware bug the n800 has when the screen starts scrolling? | 07:00 |
| Xisdibik | if it wasnt you luke i think it was probably lcuk or else ive totally forgot | 07:00 |
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| luke-jr | CiNc018: nhoi | 07:02 |
| air | http://qzx.com/n8x0-app/ -- someone give me a name for this app i'm writing | 07:07 |
| CiNc018 | u dont know | 07:07 |
| air | i need a name for it | 07:07 |
| Xisdibik | systemair | 07:08 |
| CreamyG | thats not really a hardware bug, it's the key repeating problem, a wontfix for diablo :| | 07:08 |
| air | Xisdibik: that name sucks but it gave me a good idea :) | 07:13 |
| Xisdibik | air: that was my goal :) | 07:13 |
| Xisdibik | If I gave you a GOOD name, then id require royalties and such ;) | 07:14 |
| air | will do, please send me you bank account info for the deposits ;) | 07:15 |
| Xisdibik | :P | 07:16 |
| Xisdibik | I didnt give you a good name, just helped you get your own good idea, so no royalties needed ;) | 07:16 |
| air | thats good, free software never produces any royalties | 07:17 |
| Xisdibik | mmmhmmm ;) | 07:17 |
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| Macer | ok. you know. i know i've been bashing my n900 and maemo for a while now.. but i just did something that made it like when i installed cyanogen on my G1 and turned the G1 into a whole new ballgame | 08:01 |
| Macer | i installed the google voice plugin LOL | 08:01 |
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| Macer | and the gv txt msging.. with its conversations integration made my n900 worthwhile all over again LOL | 08:02 |
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| Macer | i seriously wish nokia would reconsider its stance on maemo :) | 08:05 |
| luke-jr | what stance is that? death? | 08:05 |
| Macer | yeah | 08:06 |
| * MohammadAG51 seriously wishes nokia would take its hands off maemo | 08:06 | |
| ljp | my n900 still works | 08:06 |
| luke-jr | ljp: how? | 08:07 |
| ljp | fairly sure the rest of the n900's out there wont stop working either | 08:07 |
| luke-jr | cellmo had a time bomb that disabled it at midnight local time today | 08:07 |
| RST38h | moo all | 08:08 |
| SwedeMike | now that the HTC Desire Z has been announced, there at least is a qwerty Android phone, that'd be a nice backup in case Nokia doesn't come thru. | 08:08 |
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| ljp | come through with what? | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | SwedeMike: as if there haven't been QWERTY Android phones before? | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | SwedeMike: also, qwerty = crap | 08:11 |
| SwedeMike | luke-jr: not good ones . | 08:11 |
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| luke-jr | SwedeMike: are you implying Nokia has had any good ones? | 08:12 |
| SwedeMike | ljp: come thru with a decent phone. I don't like what I'm seeing from meego so far. | 08:12 |
| SwedeMike | luke-jr: well, there are bad and worse. | 08:12 |
| luke-jr | I want to try a handheld with DEIS keyboard :P | 08:13 |
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| luke-jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/hhkeys.html | 08:13 |
| SwedeMike | what is a DEIS keyboard? | 08:13 |
| luke-jr | optimized for thumb typing | 08:14 |
| SwedeMike | oh. | 08:14 |
| SwedeMike | that looks like a lot of keys... one needs small thumbs :P | 08:14 |
| luke-jr | not really | 08:15 |
| luke-jr | http://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjournal/articles/071/7162/7162f2.jpg | 08:15 |
| luke-jr | plenty of keyboard space | 08:15 |
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| SwedeMike | well, I just counted that the N900 has 13 keys, so I guess without the numeric keys it'll be ok | 08:16 |
| SwedeMike | that one only has 10 keys on the qwerty row | 08:16 |
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| luke-jr | N900 has the worst keyboard ever | 08:18 |
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| luke-jr | it makes N810's keyboard look good | 08:18 |
| luke-jr | and N810's kb was pretty bad already | 08:18 |
| dr34m | hm repository.maemo.org down ? | 08:18 |
| SwedeMike | N900 is my only qwerty phone, I don't have anything to compare to. I think it's decent... | 08:18 |
| luke-jr | N900 isn't even a phone | 08:18 |
| dr34m | aptget is giving me unable to resolve .. tho connected via wifi | 08:19 |
| luke-jr | see the jpg I just linked for C760 | 08:19 |
| * jpinx-eeepc is happy withthe n900 asa phone | 08:19 | |
| frals | SwedeMike: you have to remember who you are talking to, there a few here who have nothing but bad stuff to say about nokia ;) | 08:19 |
| frals | SwedeMike: but for some reason they stick around anyway | 08:19 |
| SwedeMike | frals: m. | 08:19 |
| derf | The keys on the N900 keyboard are easier to press than the N810's. | 08:19 |
| derf | That is its ownly advantage. | 08:19 |
| jpinx-eeepc | derf: use the virtual kbd? | 08:22 |
| pigeon | interesting, on my n900 now running vlc will simply crashes hildon-desktop and itself... | 08:23 |
| pigeon | s/crashes/crash/ | 08:24 |
| infobot | pigeon meant: interesting, on my n900 now running vlc will simply crash hildon-desktop and itself... | 08:24 |
| jpinx-eeepc | pigeon: I run vlc in a chroot without issues | 08:26 |
| pigeon | ha, it only crashes if i start vlc from the launcher icon. | 08:26 |
| pigeon | command line is fine. | 08:27 |
| pigeon | i wodner if it's related to the fact that the launcher isn't displaying the icon for vlc properly. | 08:28 |
| * jpinx-eeepc has not explored the launchers methods | 08:28 | |
| air | http://qzx.com/tmp/advanced-systemui/ -- anyone with an n8x0 and _no_ rotation support wanna test that and tell me if it works? | 08:29 |
| Termana | I had to reflash my N900 today, completely. For some reason it completely screwed itself :P | 08:30 |
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| ruskie | Shapeshifter, I think I had problems when I tried it last time | 08:30 |
| Termana | luke-jr, I thought you were strongly opposed to using anything closed source? Why are there Windows files scattered around your directory | 08:32 |
| Termana | ? :P | 08:32 |
| Termana | I've discovered his secret double-life. | 08:33 |
| Termana | :P | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | Termana: ⁇? | 08:35 |
| Termana | luke-jr, I thought I'd do some stalking^W^W^W looking around on http://luke.dashjr.org and I found a heap of windows stuff | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | where at? | 08:35 |
| Termana | like /tmp/win32 is one place | 08:36 |
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| * luke-jr wonders what those exes are | 08:36 | |
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| luke-jr | careful, there's at least a good chance they're viruses | 08:37 |
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| Termana | luke-jr, I don't run Windows (nor use Wine) anyway, so I can't try and run them :P | 08:37 |
| * luke-jr has been known to collect viruses from time to time | 08:37 | |
| luke-jr | sometimes even raise them in a sandbox | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | :p | 08:37 |
| Termana | luke-jr, you know that would seem like an effective way to spread a virus. Infect yourself and then let it automatically seek out its next victim. As soon as you know it's spammed enough people or whatever to get someone, just kill it. Better then trying to do legwork yourself to get someone infected :P | 08:39 |
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| Termana | lcuk, it's nice to see some sort of POSITIVE thread on tmo for once | 08:45 |
| Termana | :P | 08:45 |
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| loft306 | 08:57 | |
| ShadSEC | is there any liblocation -> gpsd emulation program? | 08:59 |
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| rmrfchik | Termana: what thread? | 09:13 |
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| Termana | rmrfchik, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=817191 responses have been positive as well | 09:14 |
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| rmrfchik | Termana: it's just because this thread is about maemo, not nokia ;) | 09:19 |
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| sejo | hmm is it possible to have the n90 sync it's time with the cell operator? | 09:30 |
| asj | pref->date&time->update automatically | 09:31 |
| sejo | asj and how do i force it? | 09:34 |
| sejo | I've set it to update but still way not correct | 09:34 |
| sejo | I'll switch off and restart once | 09:34 |
| asj | try going offline/online | 09:35 |
| asj | you've checked your timezeon? | 09:35 |
| sejo | yes | 09:35 |
| sejo | that is correct | 09:35 |
| sejo | let's see what a reboot does | 09:36 |
| sejo | nothing | 09:37 |
| asj | of course your network maybe wrong or may not support it | 09:37 |
| sejo | hmm | 09:39 |
| asj | (which means you can always install openntpd from extras) | 09:39 |
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| sejo | I'm trying to change the regional settings and reverting back | 09:40 |
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| rmrfchik | asj: hmm, i thought this is about ntp, not gsm | 09:44 |
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| asj | rmrfchik: if your gsm network doesn't provide time (which I think I've run into) nothing you do will make time from gsm work...so you have to look at alternatives. | 09:46 |
| rmrfchik | asj: so, "date&time->update automatically" has no relation with NTP? | 09:46 |
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| asj | rmrfchik: afaik, no | 09:47 |
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| lindi- | how does getting time from gsm network actually work? I always assumed it just synced the time based on headers of an incoming SMS | 09:48 |
| asj | lindi-: I tried googling it..it's not an easy topic to turn up info on | 09:48 |
| lindi- | asj: I've been trying to find out for the last two years :) | 09:49 |
| rmrfchik | lindi-: there is special GSM service for this | 09:50 |
| asj | lindi-: I'm sure you can be the standard... ;) there's an open gsm portion out there now, was used at burning man...not sure the right term or bits, but maybe it's there in code | 09:51 |
| rmrfchik | when I go out of russia with my (old) mobile phone, it usual ask me "wow, I can sync time with mobile operator!" | 09:51 |
| rmrfchik | no such service on russia is provided ;( | 09:51 |
| lindi- | asj: I did try searching the standards I got from 3gpp, at least I have not found an AT command for this | 09:52 |
| lindi- | asj: and yes, I tried looking at it in openbts too | 09:52 |
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| lindi- | rmrfchik: do you know if there are an AT commands for that? | 09:53 |
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| asj | http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/74834-1.php is the only thing I could find, and it's useless | 09:53 |
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| rmrfchik | lindi-: no | 09:54 |
| rmrfchik | lindi-: i mean "don't know" | 09:54 |
| rmrfchik | lindi-: i suppose this is not on AT level, but on GSM level | 09:54 |
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| lindi- | rmrfchik: hmm | 09:54 |
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| lindi- | asj: yeah AT+CCLK starts from zero on ti calypso (as included in openmoko freerunner) and I have never seen it update time from network | 09:56 |
| asj | lindi-: pfft, no clue...bet the n900 bit isn't open either, which is too bad | 09:57 |
| lindi- | rmrfchik: ok. do you know if n900 can do this? if yes, how does it set the system time? | 09:57 |
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| rmrfchik | lindi-: don't know | 10:02 |
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| Stskeeps | morn achipa | 10:12 |
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| achipa | morn stskeeps | 10:18 |
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| Stskeeps | morn andre__ | 10:24 |
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| andre__ | heja | 10:26 |
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| Milo- | dang that updater application is slow these days | 10:48 |
| Milo- | takes gazillion years to update the manifest. | 10:48 |
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| dneary | X-Fade, Ping? | 10:59 |
| Khertan | Morning all | 11:00 |
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| crashanddie | morning | 11:01 |
| sejo | does the nitdroid autoinstaller install on the extra microSD or on the internal one? | 11:05 |
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| Milo- | woah | 11:06 |
| Milo- | someone talking about that heree | 11:06 |
| Milo- | I was just reading upon that | 11:06 |
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| sejo | Milo I test everything :p | 11:06 |
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| Milo- | btw, why does the maemo5 alarm clock suck so much? I mean, my phone is supposed to be a smartphone, but if I don't react to the alarm in 1 minute, it goes silent, and never beeps again | 11:07 |
| Milo- | which is why I am constantly 'late' from work. | 11:07 |
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| Milo- | is there a better alarm clock application, which doesn't stop beeping until I tell it to stop beeping? | 11:07 |
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| air | sure, blame it on your phone :) | 11:07 |
| Termana | lol | 11:08 |
| Termana | "Maemo 5 is so bad, it makes me late for work!" | 11:08 |
| sejo | LOL | 11:08 |
| Milo- | My clock is supposed to ring at 6:00 AM, when I finally wake up, my alarm clock's 'snooze / stop' option is still active, but no sound is coming from the phone | 11:08 |
| Milo- | and it still shows the time as "6:00" | 11:08 |
| Milo- | proves I haven't touched the damn thing. | 11:08 |
| Milo- | and yet the time is actually something like 8:00 AM when I wake up | 11:08 |
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| Milo- | so yeah, I have very little faith in my phone's alarm clock at the moment | 11:09 |
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| X-Fade | Hehe "Click to read 18414 more words" :) | 11:09 |
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| Milo- | but noone knows a better alarm clock for n900? | 11:11 |
| air | flipclock? | 11:11 |
| Milo- | repo? | 11:11 |
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| air | might be for diablo if its not in your default repo | 11:12 |
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| crashanddie | voted | 11:15 |
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| rmrfchik | "as you are eligible to vote". | 11:20 |
| rmrfchik | hmm, how voters are choosen? | 11:20 |
| crashanddie | lol http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=4920 | 11:21 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: karma | 11:21 |
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| merlin1991 | hm what's the difference between the opengl superbible and the red book? | 11:45 |
| Milo- | the red book could be 'the red dragon book', which is a book about compilers and compiler designs :) | 11:46 |
| Milo- | and the bible probably has something to do with religion | 11:46 |
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| Milo- | compilers are real, bible is fictional | 11:46 |
| merlin1991 | lol | 11:46 |
| merlin1991 | srly, reading the descriptions for both books they seem to be mostly identical | 11:47 |
| merlin1991 | (content wise) | 11:47 |
| valdyn | the red book should be the official book from the khronos group | 11:47 |
| valdyn | ...which is the opengl standard group | 11:47 |
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| valdyn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL#Books | 11:51 |
| merlin1991 | there you have both books again :D | 11:53 |
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| Shapeshifter | I see. :( | 11:59 |
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| Shapeshifter | ruskie: I see :( | 11:59 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:19 |
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| kerio | SpeedEvil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geqip_0Vjec :O | 12:21 |
| kerio | THROWN HOOPS | 12:22 |
| kerio | THE FUCK | 12:22 |
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| ShadSEC | Mmmmm, neopwn store is closed now: "Please check back for the public release of the project." | 12:47 |
| ShadSEC | Maybe this means he will be releasing the source code soon? | 12:47 |
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| seif | hey guys | 12:48 |
| seif | is there an easy reliable way to make screencasts for my mameo device | 12:48 |
| seif | vnc is too slow | 12:48 |
| seif | and load-applet kinda messes up the recording (video is quiker then audio) | 12:48 |
| lcuk | Shift+ctrl+p | 12:50 |
| lcuk | ahhh screencasts :$ | 12:50 |
| lcuk | morning Jaffa \o | 12:51 |
| lcuk | did you manage to find yourself an N8 then? | 12:51 |
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| psycho_oreos | ew | 12:52 |
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| visz | does recordmydesktop work? | 12:54 |
| visz | i use that on my desktop debian | 12:56 |
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| lcuk | visz, it might well work if you try and build it, but I dont think it has been done to date | 12:57 |
| lcuk | and doesn't that use vnc under the hood? | 12:57 |
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| visz | don't think so | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 12:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ping | 12:59 |
| infobot | ~pong | 12:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~chaninfo | 13:00 |
| infobot | I'm on 12 channels: #debian/701, #maemo/497, #/25, ##essy/16, ##guleague/14, ##pxe/7, ##bz-inc/4, ##bspress/3, ##icf/3, ##ols/3, ##t42/2 | 13:00 |
| infobot | i've cached 1275 users, 1215 unique users, distributed over 12 channels. | 13:00 |
| Khertan | Hum still not vote token in my email inbox :( | 13:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~chaninfo | 13:02 |
| infobot | I'm on 41 channels: #debian/703, #maemo/497, #kde/369, #asterisk/226, #htc-linux/128, #bzflag/57, #asterisk-dev/53, #elinux/31, #/25, #asterisk-bugs/24, ##kierra/23, #brlcad/21, #buglabs/17, #bzflag-chat/16, ##essy/16, #hawkboard/15, ##guleague/14, #asterisk-doc/11, ##ducleague/10, #debianppc/10, #infobot/10, #debian-france/9, #arl/9, #elive/8, #debian-bots/8, #flyspray/7, ##pxe/7, #botpark/6, #fredlug/5, #arm-netbook/4, ##bz-inc/4, ##ols/3, ##icf/3, ... | 13:02 |
| infobot | i've cached 2363 users, 2000 unique users, distributed over 41 channels. | 13:02 |
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| rmrfchik | ~seen rmrfchik | 13:02 |
| infobot | rmrfchik is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen rmrfchik'. | 13:02 |
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| defragger | is it possible, that chmod doesnt work under n900? | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | is it possible you tried chmod to a VFAT based file? | 13:12 |
| defragger | uh lemme check :D | 13:12 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Yeah. Still Symbian, but I'm planning on trying some Qt Mobility cross-platform dev | 13:12 |
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| defragger | uhm MyDocs is vfat... | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | known factoid | 13:15 |
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| Khertan | Jaffa, when you said "pushing for more Qt-based development and integration which can give us cross-platform applications." are you thinking of c++/qt only or all languages and using qt framework ? | 13:16 |
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| Jaffa | Khertan: All. I'm all for developer flexibility | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: Certainly I prefer Python over C++ (but I'm going to give the SDK with C++ a good test before finally deciding my own personal language of choice) | 13:17 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: And that expands to allowing things like having inter-package dependencies in "MeeGo compliant" packages. See the discussion on meego-dev about this recently. | 13:18 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, good to hear :) I have been playing with qt mobility myself recently :) | 13:19 |
| lcuk | what colour did you get? | 13:19 |
| Khertan | i ask because finally some details make some differences as we got a long list of good Candidates :) | 13:19 |
| Khertan | :) | 13:20 |
| Khertan | thx for the answer :) (i like it) | 13:20 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, havign a simplified standard C style library API fronting qt code would be ideal for many qt things | 13:21 |
| lcuk | it would allow interop between many more languages (since its easy to add bindings between X and Y using normal libraries) | 13:21 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Only dark grey was the choice | 13:22 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, matches the suits of course :) | 13:22 |
| lcuk | a nice Nokia blue one would be cool | 13:22 |
| lcuk | :) | 13:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~moo | 13:32 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 13:32 | |
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| merlin1991 | hey Doc | 13:32 |
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| flexxxv | Hy, where can I find Maemo Diablo Ubuntu Intrepid _Desktop_ virtual SDK image | 13:36 |
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| flexxxv | i can only find the server version here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php | 13:36 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, and any other longtime members, would you care to add a note onto this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62347 | 13:38 |
| lcuk | "Maemo highlights over the years" | 13:38 |
| lcuk | described as epic :D | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation | 13:38 |
| Jaffa | Anyone know what the "enable Extras out-of-the-box" bug # is? | 13:38 |
| lcuk | hi merlin1991 \o | 13:38 |
| merlin1991 | hey lcuk "\o" ? | 13:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: exactly what it says? | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah #, sorry | 13:39 |
| frals | heh, inline replies in richtext mails are kinda annoying when sender doesnt show whats a quote and whats added reply | 13:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals: discard | 13:40 |
| frals | morning all btw o/ | 13:41 |
| flexxxv | DocScrutinizer: I only can find the server image | 13:41 |
| flexxxv | but I know I download the desktop image some time ago :( | 13:42 |
| chadi | Jaffa: can I PM you? | 13:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv: sorry, 3 out of 4 buzzwords weren't my domain exactly | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv: anyway you should rephrase your question, it's been not very clear | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | or maybe clear but not very eyecatchy | 13:44 |
| flexxxv | ok: I'm looking for the download advertised on this page: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/installation.html . If I follow the link I cant find the image of: Maemo Diablo/Fremantle Ubuntu Karmic Desktop virtual SDK image | 13:44 |
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| merlin1991 | flexxxv, I had that problem too some time ago, that vm image tends to dissappear when a new one is about to come out | 13:46 |
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| merlin1991 | all you can do is wait untill the next version is there | 13:46 |
| flexxxv | merlin1991: really? this is strange :-/ | 13:47 |
| lcuk | merlin1991, flexxxv - ok has there been a bug filed against this? | 13:47 |
| flexxxv | somone has a mirror of it? | 13:47 |
| lcuk | is it possible to actually take the older VMware image | 13:47 |
| lcuk | and update it to fremantle | 13:47 |
| lcuk | and then repush it? | 13:47 |
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| lcuk | I know a few people have looked for this now | 13:47 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, i cant find that bug # either | 13:48 |
| merlin1991 | I did some time ago, then there was a link there and I got a dl :D | 13:48 |
| merlin1991 | now it's gone again | 13:48 |
| merlin1991 | last time there was a notice somewhere on the forums though | 13:48 |
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| flexxxv | merlin1991: could you mirror it? | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Server_SDK_Virtual_Image.zip seems all that's offered there | 13:50 |
| merlin1991 | flexxxv, sure, but not atm, don't wanna kill my data plan on the n900 :P | 13:50 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I've got an updated PR1.2 image for VMware somewhere, ready for the London Open Source Jumpstart event. But a) I'm not really allowed to redistribute it since it contains nokia-apps, and b) it's quite big and may not be perfect. | 13:50 |
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| Jaffa | It's really a question for danielwilms | 13:50 |
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| flexxxv | Jaffa: who made this image? | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.torrentz.com/fbc202c3c7d832e0b947dff4e861d374f441e631 Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z Torrent | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | HTH | 13:52 |
| Jaffa | flexxxv: I did. I took the PR1.1 one and updated it. | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&source=hp&q=Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid | 13:53 |
| merlin1991 | btw how do you update the sdk actually? | 13:54 |
| Jaffa | merlin1991: It's in the release notes of each SDK. Basically apt-get dist-upgrade (isH) | 13:54 |
| flexxxv | DocScrutinizer: nice but this is outdated :-/ | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | then find a better one | 13:54 |
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| flexxxv | DocScrutinizer: I can't. thx anyway | 13:55 |
| flexxxv | Jaffe: would you mind to share? | 13:55 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, great, if danielwilms could clarify and we can contact the owners of the "official" one then perhaps your image could be uploaded/sent_on_dvd for uploading | 13:56 |
| lcuk | as we know, its not about perfect, but having a vm image that is usable is important | 13:57 |
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| flexxxv | just found the orig 7z files on my pc :D | 14:01 |
| flexxxv | so I have the karmic desktop image | 14:01 |
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| flexxxv | so lucky that i havn't deleted it | 14:01 |
| lcuk | holy crap! | 14:01 |
| flexxxv | I'm not allowed to mirror it right? | 14:01 |
| lcuk | it took 6000 views for someone to work out how this works | 14:02 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM | 14:02 |
| lcuk | flexxxv, idk | 14:02 |
| lcuk | what an awesome comment from lma: | 14:03 |
| lcuk | and especially | 14:03 |
| lcuk | * the 1e6+1 things people made (and keep making) these devices do that their designers never even thought of or intended. | 14:03 |
| Jaffa | flexxxv: Ah, I may have "tidied" them up | 14:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | gnhnhnhn http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2 ABANDONED PROJECT - Scratchbox 2 | 14:04 |
| Jaffa | flexxxv: Ah, no: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z (1.4GB) - in conjunction with http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jaffa/Jumpstart | 14:05 |
| flexxxv | DocScrutinizer:thx for info | 14:06 |
| flexxxv | Jaffa: ithink I'll use the karmic image | 14:07 |
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| hrw | Icons in /usr/share/icons/hildon/scalable/hildon should have which size? 64x64 or just svg? | 14:15 |
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| Jaffa | hrw: 64x64 | 14:15 |
| hrw | thx | 14:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: watching all those liqbase vids' topics just gave me an idea you may implement easily (if you haven't done yet): You know the game "memory" with all the cards placed on desk face down, and you have to find pairs with same picture? with invar you can pick two virtual cards and look what's their pictures. | 14:16 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, the a4 page that the video shows, i use that to make notes on | 14:17 |
| lcuk | and take photos of it, using invar, i can put my n900 on a blank piece of paper | 14:17 |
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| lcuk | and then have the n900 move around andshow where the original stuff was | 14:17 |
| lcuk | :) | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, for memory game you just need to hide the real pictures and show them on buttonclick | 14:18 |
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| lcuk | yeah DocScrutinizer | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you minf the cards are placed on desk, face down, on a desk in random order, and there's always (iirc) 4 of each picture, and you may take away a pair if you opened 2 identical pictures | 14:21 |
| merlin1991 | I wonder if http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/examples.html got proofread, dbus and embedded have title and description swapped | 14:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfXEMW0jm3U | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.ravensburger-memory.de/?gclid=CJz-5q7si6QCFUkrDgodhXOkHQ | 14:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: ping | 14:50 |
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| hrw | pyqt4 and strings == argh | 14:53 |
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| dneary | Maemo meeting on now - please consider joinng #maemo-meeting to let people know what you want to happen on maemo.org in coming months | 15:03 |
| alterego | Thanks dneary | 15:04 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, how do these weekly builds work? if a build doesn't succeed, will the next one come on next wednesday, or any day of the week when it's ready? | 15:06 |
| mece | Stskeeps, of Meego I mean. | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | next wednesday | 15:06 |
| mece | Stskeeps, k, thanks. | 15:06 |
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| hrw | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=817817#post817817 - only for brave ApMeFo users ;D | 15:09 |
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| hrw | DocScrutinizer: have a look at my version in free time | 15:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hrw: I considered adding a note about that annoying maemo desktop scroller bug eating your CPU & battery, but I noticed I don't even have a bug# | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/maemo desktop/hildon desktop | 15:17 |
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| hrw | DocScrutinizer: but what it has to do with apmefo? | 15:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it doesn't show with 'normal' applauncher menu, as it needs a screen less the size of the display. This is only happening with apmefo/catorise etc | 15:22 |
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| ghostcube | hmm, guys litle question, using power kernel and cups is working for anybody? | 15:24 |
| ghostcube | my cups isnt starting anymore -.- | 15:24 |
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| timeless_roaming | anyone know if seat zones 301, 302, 315 and 316 | 15:26 |
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| timeless_roaming | are | 15:26 |
| timeless_roaming | are any good? | 15:26 |
| Khertan | hum .... my of tea see ... | 15:30 |
| Khertan | i see .... | 15:30 |
| Khertan | the seat 315 is near to the seat 316 | 15:30 |
| Khertan | and 301 should be one just behing the 300 | 15:31 |
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| merlin1991 | wtf are you guys talking about? :P | 15:34 |
| Termana | That's strange. First time that happened. My N900 went flat when the only thing it was doing was sitting idle, on charge in PC Suite Mode. | 15:35 |
| Termana | I think it's jealous of my HTC Desire :P | 15:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | Termana: were you doing tethering? | 15:43 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, yeah (with pc suite mode, not wifi tethering), but its never been a problem before. It would normally charge it before. | 15:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | Termana: If you're heavily using tethering, it can eat more power that way than it gets charging | 15:50 |
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| lardman | afternoon chaps | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo lardman | 16:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (lo SpeedEvil ) | 16:13 |
| lardman | hi docscrutinizer | 16:14 |
| lcuk | \o lardman | 16:14 |
| lardman | hey lcuk, how's things? | 16:14 |
| lcuk | andre__, good point! | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ECHan | 16:16 |
| andre__ | aight! | 16:17 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, not really, cant talk in -meeting! | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: lcuk is busy in a chan that just made me learn a lesson: massive c&P spamming can sometimes just make users "touch that dial" | 16:18 |
| lcuk | lardman, good | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: seems there's no chanlogs of #maemo-meeting :-/ | 16:19 |
| lardman | shall I mention how rubbish the maps app is, as I happened to need to use it today while leaving Cardiff | 16:19 |
| lcuk | yes DocScrutinizer there is | 16:20 |
| lcuk | :( lardman | 16:20 |
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| sobczyk | is there a howto for using the maemo virtualbox sdk? | 16:29 |
| sobczyk | I tried an app but xephyr is constanty segfaulting | 16:30 |
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| Khertan | seems i miss the maemo meeting again | 16:32 |
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| rsuplido | Khertan, it's still going on | 16:34 |
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| Khertan | yep but miss the start ... as usual :) | 16:35 |
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| Khertan | i should stop playing with alarmd | 16:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Khertan: lcuk claims there's chanlogs. Maybe he tels you where to find | 16:44 |
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| Khertan | everyone got their council vote token ? | 16:45 |
| Khertan | i still didn't received mine | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | none here | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea if I'm entitled for one | 16:45 |
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| h4xordood | heyo :) | 16:54 |
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| Tott3[AEX] | Heyo | 16:58 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: SpeedEvil: luke-jr: DocScrutinizer51: For what it's worth, I think I managed to convince the neopwn guy to open source the project | 17:03 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot | 17:04 | |
| lcuk | thats worth an awful lot crashanddie :) and 1000x better than the past, I don't think people will have a problem with donations etc either! | 17:05 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: congrats | 17:05 |
| crashanddie | I'm still releasing the driver in repackaged format, which doesn't require the chroot | 17:06 |
| crashanddie | and then working on getting a GPL-valid version (either by writing it myself or decompiling) | 17:06 |
| Tott3[AEX] | Anyone know what kind of VNC server to use for the VNCviewer app? RealVNC/TightVNC/UltraVNC? Does it matter? | 17:06 |
| jacekowski | Tott3[AEX]: it's same crap | 17:07 |
| crashanddie | From what the neopwn guy explained, it's the developer withholding the source code (which is what we suspected all along) | 17:07 |
| Tott3[AEX] | ah okay | 17:07 |
| Tott3[AEX] | cheers | 17:07 |
| jacekowski | Tott3[AEX]: use nx | 17:07 |
| jacekowski | Tott3[AEX]: it's much better | 17:07 |
| Tott3[AEX] | homepage? | 17:07 |
| jacekowski | lmgtfy.com/?q=nx | 17:08 |
| Tott3[AEX] | Theres like a million hits;> And lots of diffrent shit:P | 17:08 |
| Tott3[AEX] | Is it nomachine? | 17:09 |
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| jacekowski | yep | 17:10 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 17:10 |
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| Tott3[AEX] | Only has Linux or Solaris servers, i'm running Windows Q_Q | 17:11 |
| RST38h | ehlo javispedro | 17:12 |
| javispedro | helo (I do not speak ESMTP) | 17:12 |
| jacekowski | ah | 17:12 |
| jacekowski | then use rdesktop | 17:12 |
| jacekowski | don't use vnc | 17:12 |
| javispedro | missed the meeting :( *checks logs* | 17:13 |
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| joppu | ok, I think I finally managed the brick the N900 for real D: | 17:14 |
| joppu | it's in a reboot loop | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | that's not brick | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | you can flash it | 17:14 |
| joppu | it doesn't go into the USB mode | 17:14 |
| RST38h | The Final Reboot (horror) | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | joppu: you're doing it wrong | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | joppu: switch it off | 17:14 |
| jacekowski | joppu: press u | 17:15 |
| jacekowski | connect usb cable | 17:15 |
| Termana | jacekowski, that's what she said | 17:15 |
| joppu | trust me, I have flashed this like 4 or so times before this happened | 17:15 |
| joppu | the litte USB icon is nowhere to be found | 17:15 |
| joppu | and the phone just reboots itself | 17:16 |
| CiNc018 | i think i have a bricked n800 lol right after i flashed it. to an older .bin | 17:16 |
| javispedro | logs of the recent meeting at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/latest.log.html , btw. | 17:16 |
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| jacekowski | joppu: you're doing it wrong | 17:17 |
| jacekowski | joppu: unless your usb port is broken | 17:18 |
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| jacekowski | do a cold flash | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | joppu: trust us, we've heard that 100 times, and it always was possible to reflash | 17:18 |
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| CiNc018 | doc so if my n800 doesnt turn on, or if i connect the charger, the light doesnt turn on, i can reflash it? | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | CiNc018: I have no access to a N800, so sorry but no definitive answer from me | 17:20 |
| CiNc018 | oh ok | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | CiNc018: check your battery | 17:21 |
| dneary | bergie, ping? | 17:21 |
| bergie | dneary: pong | 17:21 |
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| CiNc018 | i do remember noticing that when it went to shut down, after reflashing an old .bin, the screen faded totally different.. | 17:22 |
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| dneary | bergie, Looking at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4491 | 17:23 |
| povbot | Bug 4491: s/Itt/Talk/g on profile pages | 17:23 |
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| ShadowJK | Did it fade to white while simultaneously losing brightness and thus become black? | 17:24 |
| CiNc018 | doc if i plug in the charger without the batt, would it turn on? | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 17:24 |
| dneary | bergie, in midgard-data/style/maemo2009/profile/show-full-account.php, we have: | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | not afaik | 17:24 |
| dneary | bergie, http://pastebin.ca/1942117 | 17:24 |
| CiNc018 | shad, it was like fading lines straight up n down, and it had the nokia on the screen. | 17:25 |
| ShadowJK | N8x0 charge subsystem scares me. It wouldn't surprise me if plugging in charger with no battery would do harm :) | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 17:25 |
| dneary | bergie, karma_modules gets initialised like this: http://pastebin.ca/1942119 | 17:26 |
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| dneary | So if it's using net_nehmer_account_karma_dba, can I guess that the "itt_thanks" and "itt"posts" strings are coming from a database field? | 17:26 |
| dneary | If so, would it be possible to change the field to "talk_thanks" and "talk_posts"? | 17:27 |
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| dneary | I don't have access to the midgard database | 17:27 |
| dneary | (at least, I don't think I do) | 17:27 |
| ShadowJK | I'd go with "check your battery" though. Those Polymer batteries wear out fast | 17:27 |
| dneary | And I suspect that would also break stuff in the karma plug-ins which would need fixing (in midgard-data/snippets/karma_plugins) | 17:28 |
| bergie | dneary: we can also just rename it on the template level | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | dneary: wouldn't it be better to change the code displaying the webpage, to include a proper label rather than a generic database field name? | 17:29 |
| dneary | bergie, You mean "if name='itt_thanks' then print 'Thank thanks'? | 17:29 |
| bergie | something like that, yes | 17:30 |
| dneary | Sorry - "print 'Talk thanks'" | 17:30 |
| dneary | seems kind of hackish doesn't it? Especially when the labels are auto-generated otherwise | 17:30 |
| dneary | And it was kind of designed like that | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | dneary: changing field names in a database looks dangerous to me | 17:30 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: Not field names | 17:31 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: Object attribute's value | 17:31 |
| bergie | dneary: the whole karma plugin is still "itt". We could of course rename it and trigger karma recount, but that takes a while | 17:31 |
| bergie | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/midgard-data/snippets/karma_plugins/itt.php?root=maemo2midgard&view=markup | 17:31 |
| dneary | bergie, Seems like the best way to do it, though | 17:31 |
| dneary | I don't mind variable names called $itt | 17:32 |
| alterego | I wonder how much of my development of making this look and work nicely on Maemo will actually go across to MeeGo in the end. | 17:32 |
| joppu | jacekowski: yeah, I think it *might* be the USB connector since it's got very flimsy | 17:32 |
| dneary | But if we could change the constraionts (line 72, 123) to talk_thanks & talk_posts, I think that would fix the bug, no? | 17:32 |
| alterego | Especially with all that M* stuff :/ | 17:33 |
| joppu | I'm not sure if it's feeding power correctly | 17:33 |
| dneary | Although how would that affect the contents of the itt_thanks & _posts fields? | 17:33 |
| ShadowJK | joppu: I heard it doesn't go into flashing mode with insufficient battery power, and it doesn't charge when in reboot loop... oh and I guess intact usb connector is a must :) | 17:33 |
| joppu | currently recharging the battery in another N900 unit | 17:33 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: At least, from what I understand of Midgard there's no risk involved (bergie, perhaps you can confirm or refute?) | 17:33 |
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| bergie | dneary: gotta go, ping me about this tomorrow and I'll fix it | 17:34 |
| alterego | ShadowJK: not if you've got certain other Nokia models | 17:34 |
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| bergie | dneary: changing karma module names is not a problem, though then we need to either rename or remove karma stored with old module name | 17:34 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, In my opinion this is the worst thing about the N900 - it's software charging bullshit. | 17:34 |
| alterego | You can use the N810 to charge the N900's battery as you can with the 5800 and the E70 can do it I think,. | 17:34 |
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| ShadowJK | Termana, oh the other nokias have software charging too, it's just harder to shoot yourself in the foot since you can't modify the os easily :) | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: huh? | 17:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | N900 actually has NO sw charging | 17:37 |
| Termana | Android smartphones will charge even if you fscked it. The iPhone does the same sort of emergency charging scenario as the N900 (charge until you have enough power to try and boot), but I don't know weather software is necessary after that. | 17:37 |
| ShadowJK | well, N900 has hw charging, the hw boots nolo when battery power is sufficient, nolo keeps charger on until it thinks it can boot os, it boots os, os crashes, no more charging | 17:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yo | 17:38 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, it is still crap, no matter the exact specifics. It was oversight to not allow it to charge while off, imo. | 17:38 |
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| ShadowJK | well, os crash itself doesn't stop charging, but if nolo tells hw to stop charging in preparation for handover to os.. and os crash causes reset :) | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless it's hw charging with a watchdog | 17:39 |
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| ShadowJK | see I did say it might not be a good idea to leave out initfs when I first heard n900 wouldn't have one :) | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's simply the watchdog that kicks in when OS is crashing, nothing else | 17:40 |
| ghostcube | hmm, the people asking for pr1.3 will be kicked is missing in topic lulz | 17:40 |
| ghostcube | :D | 17:40 |
| lcuk | question from #maemo-devel | 17:40 |
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| lcuk | <tet> Hi ! I'am conceiving an Hildon interface for a maemo python app. Even it looks extremly ridiculous, i'am having trouble finding a list of the stock icons available on Maemo and how to include these in my app. Can anyone help me finding the right place where this is documented ? I just want to put icons on some hildon.buttons :/ . Anyway thanks for your help :) | 17:40 |
| lcuk | now I found this for him http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/gtk-stock-items.html | 17:41 |
| ShadowJK | I'm pretty damn sure a 5800 wont charge either if you go and fuck up the OS | 17:41 |
| lcuk | but thye arent working, any pygtk devs around Khertan hint hint :P | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: actually most "phones" have sw charging | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | as OS isn't supposed to crash | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a separate "cpu" controlling the charger hw is expensive | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so N900 charging is way better than what you'll usually find | 17:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh, you already said most of that :-) | 17:44 |
| ShadowJK | bring back initfs! | 17:44 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, Android handsets seem to do fine. | 17:44 |
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| joppu | after some charging, it's now working! :D | 17:45 |
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| ShadowJK | see, this is what happens when Nokia listens, thet listened to the people not wanting initfs and killed it :( | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | we have initrd still | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, yeah but act dead thing is outside initrd | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | always been in rootfs i think | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | >:-( | 17:47 |
| alterego | initrd has been replaced with initramfs | 17:47 |
| ShadowJK | so when people fuck up shit on rootfs you kill charging too | 17:48 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, if you have a phone that is able to charge right up without booting would that suggest it has this 'expensive extra cpu'? | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | otoh when somebody mamaged to fsck up rootfs, why assume he was gentle to initrd? | 17:48 |
| sobczyk | are there any simple instructions on how to run the sdk? I can't run the demo qt2ddrawing app | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | Termana, it's a question putting the charging code somewhere where the user can't go and kill it | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | question of* | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: you are not in a position to tell if it booted at all | 17:49 |
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| tet | Hi ! I'am conceiving an Hildon interface for a maemo python app. Even it looks extremly ridiculous, i'am having trouble finding a list of the stock icons available on Maemo and how to include these in my app. Can anyone help me finding the right place where this is documented ? I just want to put icons on some hildon.buttons :/ . Anyway thanks for your help :) | 17:49 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, ShadowJK, no I'm not I guess. Is it possible that it would power on the radio cpu and use that? | 17:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually all featurephones I know of have no real power down mode (off/shutdown). They simply enter another operation mode, and system 'boots' as soon as you insert battery | 17:50 |
| ShadowJK | Termana, it's possible it's done in the bootloader even | 17:50 |
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| ShadowJK | I suspect nokia wanted to push it as far ahead as possible, so that charging->poweron became lots faster than off>poweron.. | 17:52 |
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| Termana | ShadowJK, they failed at that too. Trying to turn my N900 on while its on the charger makes it go spastic, rebooting several times and occasionally going back to idle charging or occasionally deciding then to boot | 17:53 |
| ShadowJK | my s60 devices switch on frighteningly fast from "charging" too | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you're aware you can even configure to run SSU updates during act_dead ? | 17:53 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: well, on s60 i had alternative menu | 17:53 |
| ShadowJK | makes sense to run it in the most minimal state :) | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: and i could use phone normally when charging | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: i mean, switched off phone | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: when it normally would ask me for pin | 17:54 |
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| jacekowski | but because of alternative launcher i could use it normally | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | but it would shut down as soon as charger was removed | 17:54 |
| ShadowJK | it just goes instantly to pin query for me iirc :) | 17:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the main 'issue' just is the missing parameter flash on bq24150. If you could flash a prom to set power-on defaults to - say - 4.1V instead of 3.7V everything would be much nicer | 17:57 |
| ShadowJK | well, Gaia would still boot nolo once voltage is high enough, and nolo would boot user-messed os :) | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | extend recovery charge timeout from 32 minutes to say 180 min, and fine you are | 17:58 |
| jacekowski | well, nolo can be stopped | 17:59 |
| jacekowski | if you press u | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yes, but then you basically could leave bq24150 completely unattended, no more need for a friggin bme basically | 17:59 |
| jacekowski | and nolo will keep charging | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I should actually go and confirm this, right now | 18:00 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, do it with a 36xx mV battery too :) | 18:00 |
| ShadowJK | or lower | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | got no such battery :-P | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you got any numbers for NOLO setting bq charging to? | 18:01 |
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| ShadowJK | well it takes less than 60 minutes at max load to get such a battery ;) | 18:01 |
| ShadowJK | joppu: did you hold in u the first time you tried flash? | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | too long for me right now | 18:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: you seem to have a thoroughly messed up system | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: I admit screen and LED action on boot is rather puzzling, but if you don't mess with power button assuming you have to redo power-on, it will start up correctly for me every time | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | just don't press power button a second time when screen goes all black for several seconds | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not dead, it's booting X-P | 18:06 |
| ShadowJK | guess what happens when you hold it in :D | 18:06 |
| Termana | :P | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh what? holding power button for 60s or what? | 18:07 |
| Termana | Are you suppose to just tap it while its idle charging? :P Cause I DO hold it, as if I was about to start from cold boot | 18:07 |
| jacekowski | you have to hold it for couple seconds | 18:07 |
| jacekowski | that's all | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to be precise you have to hold it until ramping up white power-up light finished | 18:08 |
| Termana | Hmm, well I guess I might be holding it a little too long and that might explain the erratic behaviour. | 18:08 |
| ShadowJK | i thought holding it forced shutdown | 18:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if it's acting_dead then it might | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | acting_dead though is clearly indicated by flashing-yellow or constant-green LED | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | i thought nolo also did flashing yellow | 18:10 |
| pupnik | what's the max drying temperature of a n900 | 18:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Drying? | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I think whenever I "power up" from act_dead state, there's no confusion about how long to hold the button, when looking at indicator LED | 18:10 |
| pupnik | max environmntal temperature while turned off, SpeedEvil | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: 60°c | 18:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Battery out it can probably take a bit more | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's what I was pondering | 18:12 |
| pupnik | what components are the most heat sensitive | 18:12 |
| Termana | Re: hiding charging code on devices - where is this to on the N900 for emergency charging? Since I haven't needed to do emergency charging yet, I'm not sure weather it starts up the white NOLO screen or not | 18:12 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: LCD probably, and case. | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | LCD and backup cell | 18:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Bacup cell really? | 18:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | i thought they are grenerally good to 120 or so | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and case of course, though that shouldn't suffer even from 100° | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno about touchpanel, and speakers | 18:13 |
| pupnik | 60 must be well within safety margin considering how full-sunlight affects the case | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | generally speaking, you don't want nor need >60° | 18:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Sun in a hot car | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...can kill the LiPo :-P | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | can even kill vinyl records | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, got things to do... o/ | 18:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | I've had it working at 331K | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | 57C | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | in greenhouse logging GPS | 18:16 |
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| ShadowJK | Termana, hw charging is solid bright yellow. The software switches that off and activates the flashing/pulsing | 18:18 |
| joppu | currently recharging the battery in another N900 unit so I know the drill | 18:18 |
| joppu | it was the battery that was the issu | 18:18 |
| ShadowJK | joppu: so did you hold u first time? | 18:18 |
| Termana | ShadowJK, so what your saying is that the N900 IS able to charge without any software at all? | 18:18 |
| pupnik | casette tapes warp in sun | 18:18 |
| joppu | it couldn't charge in the reboot loop and therefore refured to flash | 18:19 |
| ShadowJK | Termana, yes | 18:19 |
| joppu | ShadowJK: Oh, yeah, I fucked up with the irssi's backlog, but I tried to say that I did hold U | 18:19 |
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| ShadowJK | Termana, though the hw charger's eeprom is programmed eith parameters that don't result in a 100% charge, and I think it stops after 32 minutes | 18:20 |
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| Termana | ShadowJK, what about smartphones that allow full charging without booting into userspace - do they most likely use hidden code to charge? | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: would be nice if it *were* an EEPROM | 18:21 |
| rmrfchik | dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /opt/NokiaQtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-10.2010.19-1-slim/lib/libm.so.6 | 18:21 |
| rmrfchik | :(( | 18:21 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, oops yeah for sure | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: please read backscroll, all has been elaborated some 30min back | 18:22 |
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| ShadowJK | Termana, I'd suspect the bootloader does it, or they actually boot into userpace with no UI or network services activated.. | 18:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: usually #2 | 18:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Or have slightly smarter 'hardware'. | 18:23 |
| SpeedEvil | For example, an embedded controller. | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | Termana, what phones? | 18:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | all Symbian phones boot up without loading the UI when charging | 18:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | there's even a hack that allows you to start extra apps while charging | 18:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | domainsrv.exe afaik | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | which also was stated clearly by me some 30min ago | 18:24 |
| Termana | MohammadAG51, I'm specifically looking at the Nexus One/HTC Desire which has an TPS65023 integrated Power Management IC | 18:24 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, sorry, wasn't there | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: so RTFM of TPS65023 | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | Termana, never seen those | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | ~debian Termana | 18:25 |
| * infobot tells Termana to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! | 18:25 | |
| MohammadAG51 | :P | 18:25 |
| ShadowJK | Termana, DocScrutinizer's battery hotswap hack actually relies on shutting down bme (the charge software) and waiting for the hw charger to notice software control went away, at which point it reverts back to independent operation and will supply power to system when you swap batteries :-) | 18:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: Read the datasheet. | 18:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tps65023.html | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly | 18:26 |
| ShadowJK | bme otherwise shuts down n900 if it notices you removed battery ;p | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | which btw is the reason hotswap works only for relatively depleted batteries | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | as otherwise bq24150 won't even start charging | 18:27 |
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| MohammadAG51 | a professional bme replacement should be made | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | what for??? | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK implied ages back that it was possible to write the capacity register in some manner. | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, jrbme is a script, not automatic, plus it'd help on alternative OSs | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Perhaps the voltage threshold registers can also be written - though tehy would normally be initialised - wrongly - from flash. | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yeah I remember, though this isn't related here | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | eventually we'll need those | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, the capacity register of bq27200 can be modified through some hoops | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: rewriting threshold registers is exactly what is done and starts watchdog host controlled mode (I2C mode) | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: what's wrong with a script? and what stops you from starting a script in system-init? | 18:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | idk, I prefer C daemons over sh ones | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's your cup of thea | 18:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tea even | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I prefer strawberry over vanilla icecream | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 18:31 |
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| ShadowJK | but anyway, for hotswap you probably want to do: disable charger, set 1250 mA charge current, set no limit input current, set disable termination, set regulation voltage to higher than current battery voltage, enable charging, tell user to swap battery | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: good plan | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | a bit complex and some dangerous dark corners, but smart | 18:32 |
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| ShadowJK | yeah it's a bit unproper if user wants to swap away full batt :) | 18:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | other issues: USB host VBUS overload, abort of script in between (user changed his mind, doesn't swap) | 18:37 |
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| * DocScrutinizer waves | 18:37 | |
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| alterego | Urgh, just got called by carphonewarehouse inquiring about an upgrade. | 18:55 |
| toggles_w | alterego: n901? | 18:55 |
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| th3hate | could someone tell me why do i get the following error while trying to flash n900? | 18:56 |
| th3hate | unable to execute /usr/bin/flasher-3.5 : No such file or directory | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | you need to install the flasher | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:56 |
| th3hate | it's installed | 18:56 |
| wmarone | not there, obviously :P | 18:56 |
| th3hate | installed it with sudo dpkg -i --force-architecture maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb | 18:57 |
| alterego | th3hate: are you running 64bit OS? | 18:57 |
| th3hate | yep | 18:57 |
| alterego | Do you have 32bit support installed? | 18:57 |
| alterego | Because the flasher binary is 32bit | 18:57 |
| th3hate | running live cde | 18:57 |
| th3hate | cd* | 18:57 |
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| alterego | Well, maybe you should try with a 32bit live cd | 18:57 |
| th3hate | it worked last time i tried.. used ubuntu x64 live cd | 18:59 |
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| merlin1991 | th3hate, apt-get install ia32-libs and retry | 19:00 |
| alterego | ubuntu probably has ia32-libs installed. | 19:00 |
| th3hate | merlin1991, thanks | 19:00 |
| th3hate | alterego, using the same live cd i used last time | 19:00 |
| merlin1991 | alterego, it didn't some time ago when I tried to install enemy territory :) | 19:00 |
| th3hate | merlin1991, E: Package ia32-libs has no installation candidate | 19:01 |
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| alterego | th3hate: I don't think you can do that with a live cd .. | 19:02 |
| alterego | Install packages that is. | 19:02 |
| th3hate | However the following packages replace it: | 19:02 |
| th3hate | lib32z1 lib32ncurses5 lib32bz2-1.0 lib32asound2 | 19:02 |
| th3hate | should i try? | 19:02 |
| alterego | No | 19:02 |
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| alterego | The package does exist. | 19:03 |
| merlin1991 | yeah http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/ia32-libs | 19:03 |
| th3hate | so it's a waste of time to try flashing on a 64bit laptop with a live cd? | 19:05 |
| merlin1991 | just use a 32bit live cd? :D | 19:05 |
| th3hate | ehh.. too lazy to download 800Mb again :( | 19:06 |
| th3hate | looks like there's no workaround though | 19:06 |
| merlin1991 | why do you need the live cd in the first case? | 19:07 |
| alterego | That reminds me, I really need to download this Windows 7 DVD at some point. | 19:07 |
| th3hate | don't want to partition harddisk for native install | 19:07 |
| merlin1991 | can't you use the installed os? | 19:08 |
| th3hate | win7 64 bit | 19:08 |
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| merlin1991 | :/ | 19:08 |
| th3hate | i'll try to run mint distop via VMware | 19:09 |
| th3hate | distro* | 19:09 |
| th3hate | may work | 19:09 |
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| alterego | th3hate: if you can VM, you can even install the 64 bit ubuntu, you just have to install ia32-libs once it's installed. | 19:19 |
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| th3hate | alterego, flash via vmware worked well with a 64bit image | 19:26 |
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| th3hate | alterego, but live cd's are not reliable :P | 19:28 |
| alterego | It would have been fine if it was a 32 bit one :P | 19:28 |
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| Khertan | a reason to hate emacs : https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/khweeteur_0.0.32-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 19:31 |
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| th3hate | Khertan, you're the developer of khweeteur (spelling?) :P? | 19:39 |
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| alterego | Interesting, only 20 episodes in the late 24 .. | 19:45 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: ah well, I was going to go ask if donating $10-$20 would help, but I'm still banned (#Pentoo ) | 20:08 |
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| lcuk | holy shit! | 20:11 |
| lcuk | frals, they build this for you: | 20:11 |
| lcuk | http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/11767 | 20:11 |
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| frals | lol | 20:12 |
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| lardman | Quick question, pyside of pyqt? | 20:28 |
| lardman | s/of/or | 20:28 |
| Khertan | th3hate, yep :) | 20:28 |
| Khertan | lardman, depends on what you want to do | 20:29 |
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| th3hate | Khertan, great work so far. i suggest adding a fullscreen option because i hate the look of the taskbar | 20:29 |
| lardman | Python with a Qt ui | 20:29 |
| Khertan | for user ready app PyQt | 20:30 |
| Khertan | for user full of bugs app PySide :) | 20:30 |
| * Khertan is away | 20:30 | |
| Khertan | good evening | 20:30 |
| lardman | thanks Khertan :) | 20:30 |
| Khertan | th3hate, why not, easy to do :) | 20:30 |
| th3hate | Khertan, would be nice | 20:31 |
| th3hate | Khertan, i also like the gray theme | 20:31 |
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| fredrin | how's life DocScrutinizer and you n900 and FR? | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | fredrin: thanks, fine | 20:52 |
| fredrin | good | 20:52 |
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| pog | I installed syncevolutin on my N900. As I don't understand the calendar-Sync, I have to ask - can I now sync my ubuntu-Evolution Calendar with my N900? | 20:53 |
| pog | or do I have to install syncevolution on the ubuntu too? | 20:54 |
| pog | syncevolution *is* SyncML-Server, but I don't know, wether evolutin can commuicate with such one. | 20:56 |
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| mc_teo | hey | 21:03 |
| ioan | hi. is there a way to make fcamera to take a picture after x seconds? | 21:04 |
| mc_teo | can i use the autobuilder for my own stuff? | 21:06 |
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| mc_teo | i am never at my desktop when i want to compile things myself | 21:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | ioan: I aslowant itto take pics over dbus | 21:07 |
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| zbii | Is it possible for the UMTS/phone part of N900 to interfere with wifi? | 21:19 |
| SpeedEvil | It's on a very different wavelength. | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Probably not dignificantly. | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | sig | 21:20 |
| zbii | Strange. I have serious problems with my wifi router and only my. With all the others around the world it usually works. | 21:23 |
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| zbii | Are there any special settings needed for N900? Band maybe? | 21:24 |
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| mgedmin | zbii, depending on the regional settings of the n900 it may not support wifi channels over 11 | 21:33 |
| zbii | That would be channel number on the wifi? | 21:35 |
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| MNZ | evening #maemo! | 21:37 |
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| lcuk | hey MNZ \o how goes it | 21:41 |
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| MNZ | long long day. But it's finally time for hackery B-) | 21:43 |
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| RST38h | "Up to 30 minutes of free WiFi a month coming to NYC parks" | 21:50 |
| RST38h | OMG how generous!!! | 21:51 |
| luke-jr | lol | 21:52 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:52 |
| lcuk | RST38h, is that per park or combined? | 21:53 |
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| zbii | 30 min? That is a joke! | 21:54 |
| lcuk | yeah zbii it should be at least an hour | 21:55 |
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| zbii | Where I live, well in the citiy close by there is free wifi no restrictions. | 21:56 |
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| thp | kkjkkkkkkkk1 | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | thp: qt got your tongue? ;) | 22:00 |
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| * RST38h is installing 728MB of Maemo apps | 22:01 | |
| MNZ | RST38h, rootfs flash? | 22:01 |
| thp | Stskeeps: windowfocus fail. sorry about that :) | 22:01 |
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| churl1 | How does one remove a repository? | 22:04 |
| churl1 | application manager > tools > application catalog? cause there's, um, nothing there. :/ | 22:05 |
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| lcuk | churl1, hmm | 22:09 |
| lcuk | reboot | 22:09 |
| churl1 | oh yeah :) | 22:09 |
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| mece | achipa, ping | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: is there some binary that allows me to shoot raw hex values to biquad via sysfs, so I could load certain predefined EQ settings from e.g. a script? I'm eager to test that | 22:45 |
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| RST38h | Hmm, GAN is no longer trying for the council seat | 22:46 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, yup there is | 22:46 |
| MNZ | mompls | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: when are you returning to Mosow? | 22:46 |
| RST38h | Doc: Already have. Currently transferring data and apps to my new n900 | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd appreciate paul to get his device soonish, so he can start hacking hostmode | 22:47 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Yes, I will pass him the device in a couple of days | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | fine :-) | 22:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: as you might have noticed DHL failed epically to ship to .ru | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | package got stopped and sent back halfway | 22:49 |
| Jaffa | meego-dev's "spec" thread and the discussion about external dependencies is, quite literally, boggling. | 22:51 |
| RST38h | Doc: This does not surprise me. | 22:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: go figure: it took them 4 days to clear the shipment in HEL, then when Henrietta supplied them with some tax number they were no earlier to mention, they finally set status to cleared, only to return package to sender at Leipzig/Germany DHL hub | 22:54 |
| johnsq | Hi | 22:54 |
| mece | What the hell is this now: "RuntimeError: the sip module implements API v8.0 but the PyQt4.QtCore module requires API 7.1" | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's actually master fail when DHL HEL doesn't know what DHL Leipzig needs to proceed a in-out pkg | 22:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mece: :-/ | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | THE sip module, the notorious magic one | 22:57 |
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| AirBender | Hellos | 22:59 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, but what does it mean and wtf am I to do about it? | 22:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mece: I have no F.ing clue | 23:00 |
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| mece | ..and is the problem in PyQt, Qt or the sip module (whateverthefuck that is) | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | if no obvious candidate or in doubt, go blame telepathy :-P | 23:00 |
| mece | hmm | 23:01 |
| mece | ok well the problem is not on my phone actually. | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | err where then? | 23:01 |
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| mece | DocScrutinizer, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=817937&postcount=18 | 23:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mece: so you meant the problem isn't a unique issue of your device? Well that's quite obvious | 23:04 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, well I don't have that problem at all actually. | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 23:05 |
| mece | Actually this guy installed qlister, couldn't get it to work, so he made the exact same application and put it in extras :D | 23:05 |
| alterego | mece: yeah, I saw that. | 23:05 |
| mece | alterego, it's fine, but I still wonder about that error. | 23:06 |
| alterego | Though he said it was to learn Qt | 23:06 |
| alterego | Well, I've been using qlister for ages .. | 23:06 |
| mece | alterego, i made qlister because I wanted to test some qt stuff. | 23:06 |
| alterego | Heh | 23:07 |
| alterego | tbh, I thought about writing a similar app when I was first getting into Qt. | 23:07 |
| alterego | But then you released yours so I didn't bother gettings started ^.^ | 23:07 |
| mece | alterego, well, it's a very good way to start. Simple. | 23:07 |
| mece | alterego, I've been meaning to talk to you. You've dabbled in qml I understand? | 23:08 |
| alterego | Indeed | 23:08 |
| alterego | What do you need? :) | 23:08 |
| mece | well, I was wondering. qml is only for ui? or can you do stuff like reading files and network stuff with it? Or how do you go about that? | 23:09 |
| alterego | QML has facilities for database access and networking | 23:09 |
| alterego | But not really accessing files :/ | 23:09 |
| mece | database is fine. | 23:09 |
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| mece | alterego, I'm planning a server-client turn based strategy game, with the game logic on server side. Was thinking I'd do the client in qml. | 23:10 |
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| mece | alterego, very simple game I might add. | 23:10 |
| alterego | Neat | 23:10 |
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| alterego | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qtquick.html | 23:11 |
| alterego | That's basically the root source for everything Qt based. | 23:11 |
| alterego | QML based sorry .. | 23:11 |
| * lcuk throws a bouncy ball around | 23:12 | |
| mece | righty. | 23:12 |
| [DrkGUNMAN-N900] | *boing | 23:12 |
| mece | I did the first qml tutorial and was just amazed by the simplicity | 23:12 |
| mece | and smoothness. | 23:12 |
| lcuk | mece, works well doesn't it | 23:12 |
| mece | lcuk, crazy good. | 23:13 |
| lcuk | alterego has been playing before | 23:13 |
| mece | lcuk, yeah. | 23:13 |
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| alterego | Yeah, my only issue with QML is not having access to all the scriptable objects. | 23:13 |
| mece | alterego, what have you made? | 23:13 |
| lcuk | alterego, did you ever get your compass working in it ? | 23:13 |
| alterego | OR at least, that's not documented. | 23:13 |
| alterego | lcuk: I've ported my custom widgets used in my GPS app to work with it, but I have to wait for a Qt 4.7 madde sysroot | 23:14 |
| alterego | Or build one myself. | 23:14 |
| lcuk | ahh | 23:14 |
| lcuk | mece, have you seen what alterego has been hacking on | 23:14 |
| lcuk | the ui looks sweet! | 23:14 |
| pupnik | show us | 23:15 |
| alterego | Really? It's just a wireframe. | 23:15 |
| alterego | Though the QML image viewer I've been playing with is quite pretty. | 23:15 |
| alterego | http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/ | 23:15 |
| alterego | That's my GPS stuff, the last two are closer to what I have now. | 23:15 |
| lcuk | alterego, :) i happen to think you made a really good start on what looks like a cool app | 23:16 |
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| lcuk | and you have a style that is rare :P | 23:16 |
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| alterego | :) Thank you | 23:16 |
| mece | what I want is a firstly a rendered hex of hexes which is fingerscrollable and smooth zoom in some manner. Haven't really decided how to do it yet. Did something in PyQt, but now feel that QML is cooler :) | 23:17 |
| alterego | This was something I was doing in QML: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/imaging/Screenshot-20100815-101449.png | 23:17 |
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| mece | does the compass work? | 23:17 |
| lcuk | mece, pan and zoom at same time in finger interface is a bit odd | 23:18 |
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| lcuk | as you know - at least for single touch | 23:18 |
| alterego | mece: of course, it's my GPS app. | 23:18 |
| lcuk | look @ browser as expand workaround | 23:18 |
| mece | lcuk, well I could use a slider to zoom. | 23:18 |
| lcuk | sure | 23:18 |
| lcuk | thats common solution | 23:18 |
| mece | lcuk, actually I want that. | 23:18 |
| * lcuk has that on map | 23:18 | |
| alterego | I should probably update the screenshots. | 23:18 |
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| alterego | And release a version ^.^ | 23:18 |
| lcuk | yes alterego you were going to align those labels :P | 23:18 |
| mece | does the bin run directly on n900? | 23:18 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 23:18 |
| alterego | lcuk: actually, those labels are aligned .. | 23:19 |
| Corsac | needs libqtlocation | 23:19 |
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| mece | Corsac, thanks | 23:19 |
| lcuk | http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/Screenshot-20100715-145415.png | 23:19 |
| alterego | mece: yes, though you need Qt mobility api's installed. | 23:19 |
| lcuk | alterego, ^^ | 23:19 |
| mece | alterego, how is it written? I mean is it only qml code? | 23:19 |
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| alterego | mece: those screenshots for the GPS app are pure Qt, but I've ported my custom widgets, i.e. the compass dial and slider to Qt Quick. | 23:20 |
| alterego | So I can write a QML app and pull in those widgets. | 23:20 |
| mece | alterego, I see. | 23:21 |
| alterego | tbh, the app probably wont be ported to Qt Quick, as it's fine in pure Qt | 23:21 |
| alterego | and works well. | 23:21 |
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| mece | alterego, any particular reason why it isn't in extras? Or is it? | 23:22 |
| alterego | Anyhow, you need the Qt maemo5 stuff and Qt mobility geolocation apis installed to run that binary. | 23:22 |
| alterego | mece: yeah, it's not ready yet :) | 23:22 |
| Corsac | is there a metapackage for qt mobility? | 23:23 |
| mece | alterego, still, if it does something, just put it in devel. | 23:23 |
| alterego | Corsac: I'm not sure, apt-get install libqtm-* ? ^.^ | 23:23 |
| Corsac | (why oh why HAM takes so much time after downloading fresh sources.list) | 23:23 |
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| lcuk | Corsac, I think I heard something about that, but IDK exactly where it is | 23:23 |
| alterego | mece: I'm working on it, it'll be thrown into extras very soon. | 23:23 |
| lcuk | alterego, please throw it through -testing first :P | 23:24 |
| alterego | In its' current state, with certain features still not implemented but greyed out. I just want to complete the new configuration management stuff I've been working on today. | 23:24 |
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| alterego | lcuk: obviousy, I meant devel :P | 23:24 |
| lcuk | alterego, good idea :) | 23:24 |
| lcuk | that way you dont expose the incomplete stuff until its ready | 23:24 |
| lcuk | and people wont moan :P | 23:25 |
| lcuk | that xyz doesnt work | 23:25 |
| alterego | Yeah :) | 23:25 |
| * lcuk looks forward to it | 23:25 | |
| * mece too | 23:25 | |
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| * Corsac moos | 23:26 | |
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| alterego | Actually, I've got a good set of new screenshots I did a week or so ago. | 23:26 |
| hardaker | Umm... so when you're packaging something how do you avoid this issue: | 23:26 |
| hardaker | libval-threads: Depends: libc but it is not installable | 23:26 |
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| hardaker | cause, um, it certainly does exist and is installed! | 23:27 |
| Corsac | no it's not, it's libc6 | 23:27 |
| hardaker | huh. | 23:27 |
| hardaker | wonder why scratchbox found libc as the dependency | 23:28 |
| hardaker | because scratchbox has a /usr/lib/libc.so file (from libc6), but the n900 doesn't. | 23:30 |
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| Corsac | libc in /usr? | 23:30 |
| hardaker | there is one on my scratchbox, yes. not on the device. | 23:31 |
| Corsac | funny | 23:31 |
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| hardaker | dpkg -S /usr/lib/libc.so | 23:31 |
| hardaker | libc6-dev: /usr/lib/libc.so | 23:31 |
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| alterego | lcuk: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/image2868.png | 23:36 |
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| joga | uses only gps? | 23:37 |
| alterego | What else would you have me use? :P | 23:37 |
| joga | heh, just checking ;) | 23:37 |
| joga | (didn't read buffer) ;) | 23:37 |
| dotblank | how accurate would the accelerometer be to derive position? | 23:37 |
| alterego | I was contemplating using accel telemetry for something, but not sure what. | 23:37 |
| joga | dotblank, not accurate enough for that | 23:37 |
| lcuk | dotblank, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z51-vCa0_Q | 23:38 |
| dotblank | joga, seems to give a lot of data points | 23:38 |
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| joga | yeah it gives data but I wouldn't trust a compass heading from the accelerometer | 23:38 |
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| alterego | accel is only useful for orientation discovery and movement gestures. | 23:39 |
| alterego | lcuk: that's cool :) | 23:39 |
| dotblank | well you can take the device and move it in the direction of the measured plane | 23:39 |
| dotblank | then once calibrated you can find the distance | 23:39 |
| dotblank | its possible.. Dunno how accurate it would be | 23:39 |
| lcuk | alterego, :) thought you had seen that | 23:39 |
| alterego | Not really accurate enough and it will only measure gforce | 23:40 |
| alterego | So only acceleration. | 23:40 |
| alterego | lcuk: no, not that one :) | 23:40 |
| dotblank | alterego, yea but you can still find position from that data | 23:40 |
| dotblank | just not that accurate also ignore initial velocity | 23:40 |
| lcuk | alterego, its nice and simple | 23:40 |
| alterego | Erm, how do you measure distance if you don't even know you're moving? | 23:40 |
| dotblank | alterego, well you can say.. im at a stand still | 23:41 |
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| dotblank | then move and it records time untill acceleration in the opposit direction | 23:41 |
| dotblank | integrate and solve | 23:41 |
| lcuk | alterego, hm? | 23:41 |
| alterego | Yeah, was just thinking that might be possible. | 23:42 |
| alterego | I was thinking of using accel to help normalize the gps data. | 23:42 |
| alterego | That might help toward that. | 23:42 |
| dotblank | alterego, yea I think it would | 23:42 |
| dotblank | I should get working on a proof of concept | 23:43 |
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| lcuk | alterego, dotblank : http://www.youtube.com/v/sjSrwpbxyAM?fs=1&hl=en_GB | 23:43 |
| alterego | lcuk: seen that one ;) | 23:43 |
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| lcuk | you might have done | 23:44 |
| dotblank | lcuk, saw that.. isn't that using the camera to find change in position? | 23:44 |
| lcuk | but its related to the positioning stuff | 23:44 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:44 |
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| dotblank | I can't belive none has bother to make a distance calc based on accelerometer | 23:44 |
| dotblank | no one* | 23:45 |
| Shapeshifter | dotblank: GPS? | 23:45 |
| dotblank | Shapeshifter, well thats gps.. | 23:45 |
| dotblank | Shapeshifter, also won't work indoors | 23:45 |
| Corsac | well, GPS would be useful for large distances | 23:45 |
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| Shapeshifter | dotblank: measuring tape? | 23:45 |
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| Corsac | since precision is like 20 or 25m? | 23:45 |
| dotblank | I have some access to some kinematics testing equipment | 23:45 |
| dotblank | so I can see if I can get it refined and calibrated to do so | 23:46 |
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| dotblank | is there a way to increase the rate the n900 polls the accelerometer? | 23:47 |
| dotblank | also for human movement what power should I limit it to | 23:48 |
| dotblank | 3? | 23:48 |
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| ShadowJK | there's a rate filr in the sys dir for it | 23:48 |
| MNZ | dotblank, the accelerometer is largely useless for measuring distances AFAIK. There was this nice explanation of why, and SpeedEvil can link you. | 23:48 |
| ShadowJK | you can echo 400 to it to increase it from 100h to 400hz | 23:48 |
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| dotblank | in theory at 400hz you could get it to work very very nicely | 23:49 |
| dotblank | prividing the data itself is accurate | 23:49 |
| lcuk | interesting | 23:50 |
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| lcuk | realworld interface navigation aids for the blind | 23:50 |
| lcuk | http://www.visionaustralia.org.au/info.aspx?page=773 | 23:50 |
| mece | ok.. so would using an image for each hex be really slow compared to drawing the hexes in some manner with qml? | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | dotblank: 400Hz is max sample rate, and no it's not as precise as you'd need for decent distance estimations | 23:51 |
| ShadowJK | it'll be pretty damn inaccurate because you wont know the exact orientation of the n900 | 23:51 |
| lcuk | orientation wont drift really | 23:51 |
| lcuk | location estimate will | 23:51 |
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| Shapeshifter | I think measuring tape is what would do the trick indoors. | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 23:52 |
| dotblank | well you could define a plane and say measure component forces in this direction | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yep | 23:52 |
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| lcuk | did you see the indoor navigation at nokia world? | 23:52 |
| dotblank | you could also do it in 2d or even 3d space | 23:52 |
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| ShadowJK | you get acceleration scalars from gthe accelerometer, you need to know your orientation to turn it into vectors | 23:52 |
| * lcuk finds link | 23:52 | |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, i suspect that was rigged wifi basestations? :) | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | dotblank: this is a cheap chip and not a $$$$$ inertial system | 23:53 |
| dotblank | ShadowJK, you can do that because gravity would be streight down.. for example z your x and y will very | 23:53 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWMJ_6rQFGY | 23:53 |
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| jacekowski | well, you always have 1G downwards | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | dotblank: errors accumulate | 23:53 |
| jacekowski | that you can use | 23:53 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, have a look | 23:53 |
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| dotblank | DocScrutinizer, aww.. I still think it would be cool to try even if it doesn't work | 23:53 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, there are workarounds for that | 23:53 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: for example assuming that somebody can't go into wall and stuff | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | after a single quick move over 50cm you'll not get the device to an exact non moving calibration | 23:54 |
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| lcuk | theres other videos showing it | 23:54 |
| lcuk | dotblank, of course it would be feasible to try | 23:54 |
| lcuk | you could even recalibrate occasionally | 23:54 |
| lcuk | if you had something nearby to identify | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mompls | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK | dotblank, so put my n900 in a car back seat and drive aroud in circles, can you distinguish acceleration due to gravity from acceleration due to car movement :P | 23:55 |
| dotblank | I worried my accelerometer is already off | 23:55 |
| * DocScrutinizer is fetching a link once again | 23:55 | |
| Shapeshifter | dotblank: why not try it them | 23:55 |
| Shapeshifter | *then | 23:55 |
| dotblank | ShadowJK, no you can't but you have to start the app while not moving | 23:55 |
| dotblank | Shapeshifter, I think I will | 23:55 |
| ShadowJK | even then? | 23:55 |
| dotblank | be a cool little project | 23:55 |
| dotblank | doomed to fail | 23:55 |
| * dotblank shrugs | 23:55 | |
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| dotblank | I want to get it to work in 3d space then ride a roler coaster | 23:57 |
| dotblank | and providing its not a complete failure you could map out or trace your path on the ride | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals for your convenience | 23:57 |
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| lcuk | dotblank, rollercoaster could happily be done with agps? | 23:57 |
| timeless_pidgin | Help? How do i make pidgin fit on my n900's screen? | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | After 1s, if you happen to hit an average noise peak in each accelerometer at the opposite point - something that'll happen once every 5-10 seconds or so, (absolute peaks are much worse) what happens to the pointing? Well - the velocity reads out as 6cm/s^2 wrong, which means that the position is now out by 3cm, or 10 degrees. | 23:58 |
| dotblank | lcuk, maybe use both according to the link it will only last for a couple of seconds | 23:58 |
| dotblank | the gps is too inaccurate thoug.. | 23:58 |
| dotblank | though | 23:58 |
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| timeless_pidgin | It has room for 4 rows of foreign text if they have six or fewer words... As long as i don't get any tabs... | 23:59 |
| dotblank | DocScrutinizer, could it be possible to filter out that data? | 23:59 |
| dotblank | or limit the power? | 23:59 |
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