IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-08-26

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tobis87	New voice message on UVB-76: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76#Voice_messages http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42r3kywogT8	00:19
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alterego	Made some really nice progress on my GPS app :)	00:20
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FIQ	o hai	00:35
FIQ	how did i turn on autorepeat?	00:35
FIQ	(i.e. turn off the automatic char2fn-char on hold)	00:36
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jaem	FIQ: There is a status applet and a home screen widget to do that. I'm not sure what it actually does to make the change, so it may be trivial to do manually.	00:39
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm you did? acidentally?	00:41
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DocScrutinizer51	seems it's been some gconf curse	00:42
FIQ	ugh, chsh didn't let me change default shell to bash. :(	00:43
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FIQ	Login Shell [/bin/sh]: /bin/bash	00:43
DocScrutinizer51	I'd love to have a simple way to switch of that BS without googling for the magic cmdline	00:43
FIQ	has worked before	00:43
kerio	FIQ: add /bin/bash to /etc/shells	00:43
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DocScrutinizer51	enjoy bootloop	00:44
FIQ	DocScrutinizer, but it has worked before? : <	00:44
FIQ	and i've already reflashed the device today	00:44
FIQ	i hope i don't have to do it again the coming weeks. :P	00:45
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FIQ	uh, where did nano go	00:45
* FIQ installs it again		00:46
DocScrutinizer51	for obvious reasons never tested it myself, but there have been multiple reports claiming the changing of user default shell away from messybox renders system messedup	00:46
FIQ	hm	00:46
kerio	changing it for the user is fine here	00:46
FIQ	i did change it before, but then i did it manually	00:47
FIQ	(aka "nano /etc/passwd")	00:47
FIQ	/etc/shells didn't exist	00:48
FIQ	dunno the syntax used in it	00:48
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DocScrutinizer	without etc/shells the new default shell should have no effect, as aiui only shells listed in etc/shells are really allowed	00:49
nox-	moin	00:49
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Noma	which one works better, meego in n900 or android in n900?	00:49
DocScrutinizer	so that's a commonly used explanation why for some users changing login shell didn't break things	00:49
DocScrutinizer	you might be interested in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools , regarding "where is nano? I reflashed today and now it's gone"	00:50
FIQ	hmm	00:51
FIQ	changing it manually didn't break things. :d	00:51
DocScrutinizer	the file ~root/installed-aps.sh comes in handy should I ever again face that situation	00:51
DocScrutinizer	wtf :d	00:52
FIQ	Well, i don't mind	00:52
FIQ	as i reflashed only 10 mins after use	00:52
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FIQ	installed 3 apps	00:52
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FIQ	(new N900, my old get it's charger port breaked)	00:53
FIQ	the nice thing with getting a new is that now, i have double of everything. :P	00:53
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DocScrutinizer	mhm, 3 apps in 10min, wait lemme do the math what you need to redo if you have to reflash in 5 weeks :-P	00:53
FIQ	2 batteries, 2 charger, etc	00:53
FIQ	meh	00:54
FIQ	rootsh, notmynokia, nano	00:54
andax	handy for the situation that apt-get sticks? (i still ahve such problem...)	00:54
FIQ	hm	00:54
FIQ	86400/60, times 3.5	00:55
FIQ	times 3	00:55
FIQ	iirc	00:55
FIQ	but i'm tired	00:55
andax	FIQ: charger port is a fault in construction	00:56
andax	IMHO	00:56
FIQ	well, i didn't pay anything. :D	00:57
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FIQ	so i'm just happy about getting 2x of things	00:57
andax	oh,great ;-)	00:58
FIQ	(anything for the reparation i mean)	00:58
FIQ	now i actually can use the device normally after 1.5years when the battery is unusable	00:58
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andax	lucky you. my connector had some spontaneous dropouts too, after approx. 9 months of use and i handled with great care	01:01
andax	but i made a contract including 2 years warranty, so i dont mind	01:02
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SpeedEvil	On UI fails.	01:06
SpeedEvil	'After extensive testing, a particular scenario was found which could explain what had happened.	01:06
SpeedEvil	The pilot, being of a certain height and in that aircraft at that particular time of day and year, adjusted his seat and visor for the glare of the low sun. To do so, he had to move a map reading light which was on a stalk. The light fell out of its clip, and dropped down against the seat where it somehow fouled the ejector system. Operating the seat adjuster then fired the ejection system, and the poor guy was shot out into the slipstream withou	01:06
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nox-	o_O	01:08
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FIQ	wtf	01:35
FIQ	how many files are it in ,thumbnails/cropped? o_o	01:35
FIQ	and what is that anyway	01:35
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Aranel	I wonder why MyDocs doesnt show up on Mass Storage Mode if I insert an MMC card. (It shows partitions on MMC btw)	01:35
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DocScrutinizer	omg, *#-ena has more dl than coreutils-gnu	01:37
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FIQ	i did just download coreutils. :p	01:38
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kerio	coreutils <£	01:38
kerio	er	01:39
kerio	<3	01:39
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Aranel	hmm. can someone with a MMC card try and confirm this: On Mass Storage Mode, MyDocs doesn't mount/show up if an MMC card inserted. I'm thinking of filing a report if its a bug. :)	01:41
DocScrutinizer	eh?	01:42
DocScrutinizer	on mass storage mode both MyDocs and card should be unmounted	01:42
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kerio	Aranel: does that for me	01:43
cehteh	MMC card?	01:43
kerio	a µSD	01:44
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cehteh	thats the question .. are the MMC cards in µSD form factor or only SD cards?	01:44
cehteh	are there MMC exist in the wild anymore?	01:44
Aranel	DocScrutinizer: no, i mean the desktop pc, not the device itself. MyDocs doesn't show up on PC if MMC inserted.	01:45
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DocScrutinizer	here it does	01:45
cehteh	Windows PC?	01:45
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Aranel	hmm. so It's not reproducible :\| Maybe it's because of NITdroid? Do you have it on your card?	01:46
* nox- suspects it didnt umount probably bc some process still had something open on there?		01:46
cehteh	the device exports 2 cards .. some people reported that not every computer (usb driver, hub, whatever) can handle that more than on storage device is on a single port	01:46
Aranel	nox-: but it works now perfectly, after I removed the card.	01:47
cehteh	Aranel: what OS?	01:47
Aranel	cehteh: Ubuntu GNU/Linux	01:47
cehteh	mhm strange then .. what does 'lsusb' say?	01:48
Aranel	cehteh: It adds two new devices after plugging my device on it; sdd1 (MMC - Android), sdd2 (MMC) and sde which I can't mount.	01:49
Aranel	cehteh: wait a minute	01:49
Aranel	cehteh: inserting my card again =)	01:49
cehteh	reminds me that i turned this storage thing and unmounting completely off :P	01:50
Aranel	wut	01:53
Aranel	now It mounts everything perfect.	01:53
Aranel	to make me shy. :\|	01:53
Aranel	:p	01:53
Aranel	now I'm starting to believe there's some magic on this device :) thanks anyway, I'll file a report if it doesn't work again.	01:54
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DocScrutinizer51	an open file might stop unmounting, so it can't get exported	01:57
Aranel	DocScrutinizer: maybe umount --force can do the trick on that case?	01:57
lcuk	FIQ, the thumbnails/cropped contains thumbnails of all detected images, the filename is derived from the md5'ed string of the path	02:01
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FIQ	ok	02:01
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FIQ	how big could it be	02:01
lcuk	depends how many images you have	02:02
FIQ	yeah, of course	02:02
lcuk	and potentially also from album art, I can't remember if that is also stored in the same manner	02:02
FIQ	but let's say i've 1k	02:02
lcuk	well I have 2310	02:03
FIQ	and size of the dir is?	02:04
lcuk	7.5MB	02:04
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FIQ	oh, not a big deal then	02:07
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luke-jr	I think I'm going to regret teaching my 4 year old how to use a phone…	02:12
lcuk	luke-jr, tablet mode	02:12
luke-jr	⁇?	02:12
luke-jr	not the N900	02:12
luke-jr	just a regular hard-phone	02:12
luke-jr	but she keeps calling me	02:12
lcuk	:D	02:13
luke-jr	literally every other minute	02:13
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MNZ	Hi guys, I just cloned the hildon-desktop repo and built a packge (after forging the package version....) and installed to my N900... now by my best guess when the next SSU rolls around nothing should go wrong and I would be updated normally and this package will be replaced, is there anything I'm missing?	02:16
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lcuk	mnz talk tomorrow in #maemo-ssu, the ramifications of such an action are being discussed and stuff	02:17
lcuk	and having the input from people actively building their own branches and hacking is important :)	02:17
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lcuk	MNZ, did you build it to want to make further modifications, or as a challenge!	02:18
MNZ	lcuk, as I imagine it, the 'SSU' is just basic package management right? So I went with the what could possibly go wrong(TM) approach	02:18
MNZ	no I needed to fix the annoying battery drain bug triggered by catorise decreasing the menu to one page	02:19
lcuk	mnz, that is what we are considering at the moment	02:19
lcuk	the biggest potential thing is not knowing which version of community altered packages will end up in the ssu	02:19
lcuk	MNZ, do you have a bug number and is your clone public?	02:20
MNZ	oh no someone got to it before I could figure it out myself :D	02:20
MNZ	it's already committed by adam	02:20
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lcuk	:) yes, madam is very skilled	02:21
lcuk	in general if you are talking about fixes, try to use the bug numbers, it helps to add context - ok so you just wanted a jump on the official ssu	02:21
MNZ	yeah, it was a pretty annoying bug :@	02:22
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lcuk	MohammadAG51 has been doing some patching and examination of a few of the hildon libraries	02:22
lcuk	and has setup a repository to keep the latest tip of a few community apps together	02:22
lcuk	I believe since you are talking about something madam already patched it should be available from there for future reference	02:23
MNZ	slightly off topic, is the community going to seize development of maemo or what is going to happen?	02:23
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lcuk	MNZ, no - maemo as a whole is a large complete operating system	02:24
lcuk	the hildon stuff being examined at the moment is only a small fragment of that	02:24
lcuk	but its also the most beneficial from OSS perspective - because as you have seen, its open :)	02:25
MNZ	yeah, so that commit msg on the lines of 'you are free, go forth and fork' is only specific to hildon or what? What I mean is, is nokia still going to be involved with maemo?	02:26
lcuk	mnz, IDK	02:27
lcuk	but since pretty much everywhere in the source are @nokia.com addresses of passionate linux supporters	02:27
MNZ	meh, they should make some public announcement explaining themselves	02:27
lcuk	maybe theres no announce yet	02:28
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lcuk	incidentally, debian addresses pop up a lot as do igalia and lanedo and imendio and a tonne of others :P	02:29
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lcuk	(I have occupied myself browsing the package maintainers lists recently :))	02:30
MNZ	well, what I gather is the community is pretty strong :D always a good thing	02:31
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* lcuk nods		02:31
lcuk	theres lots of support and enthusiasm to follow up on this	02:31
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lcuk	it also flows nicely into meego since there are some interested parties there trying to get the hildon libs working on the handset image	02:32
MNZ	I still don't like meego for some reason :@ I guess it's just my debian bias :/	02:33
lcuk	well, I like the look of some of the apps, I think they have potential	02:34
lcuk	but I would like to see them with debian packages and available here ;)	02:34
lcuk	community could then help to make them into the world beaters they should be	02:35
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* raster eyes Qt in Meego suspiciously		02:37
lcuk	isn't that known as rasterizing?	02:38
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raster	hahahahha	02:39
raster	nah	02:39
raster	thats the bit when i fix Qt	02:39
raster	:)	02:39
raster	"fix"	02:39
raster	:)	02:40
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MNZ	lcuk, when's this talk tomorrow?	02:43
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lcuk	mnz, just more daytimey, i meant more thats when most folks are active	02:44
lcuk	its midnightish now	02:44
MNZ	it's midnightish depending on where you are :D	02:44
MNZ	(though it IS midnightish where I am)	02:45
asj	is midday here	02:46
FIQ	1:47 here	02:47
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FIQ	Formatting /dev/mmcblk1p1 (vfat) ...FAILURE. Bailing out.	02:49
FIQ	hmm...	02:49
FIQ	could this have to do	02:49
FIQ	with the fact that it's formatted as ext3 atm?	02:50
FIQ	(trying to install NITDroid	02:50
FIQ	)	02:50
FIQ	trying to do it manually results in this:	02:51
FIQ	mkfs.vfat: Too few blocks for viable file system	02:52
vltR	you made sth wrong with sfdisk imo	02:53
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FIQ	ehm	02:54
FIQ	i've never used sfdisk on my memcard	02:54
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FIQ	hm	02:55
FIQ	uh	02:55
FIQ	why this	02:55
FIQ	/dev/mmcblk1 14.8G 8.0k 14.8G 0% /media/mmc1	02:55
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FIQ	isn't it supposed to end with "p1"?	02:55
FIQ	as in partition 1	02:55
oneil	hello, i followed the link from the wiki. hoping to get some help	02:56
vltR	mmcblk1 is ur memcard which is divided to p1 and p2	02:56
vltR	partition1 , partition2	02:56
FIQ	yeah	02:57
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FIQ	but, why is the whole memcard mounted instead of a partition of it?	02:57
lcuk	oneil, hi, just ask your question as clearly as possible and we will happily continue to ignore you (unless someone knows the answer \o)	02:58
oneil	i am trying to make my google talk work on my n900 but its having a GV data code 20 erro. any pointer on how to solve this considering an in the uk	02:59
FIQ	I guess i screwed smth up, but how to remove the partition on "mmcblk1" (so i can do a partition at "mmcblk1p1")?	02:59
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* FIQ man mkfs.vfat		03:00
lcuk	not very clear, where are you seeing the error and give the specific error message, not shortened or abreviated	03:00
FIQ	oh, no man atm...	03:00
lcuk	oneil, ^	03:00
MNZ	FIQ, did you use mkvfat on /dev/mmcblk1 ?	03:00
FIQ	Don't remember, could happen	03:00
MNZ	don't worry about the filesystem, just use sfdisk again (properly this time) and next time run mkvfat on the p1/p2 devices	03:00
andax	SpeedEvil: still flying? xD xD xD	03:03
FIQ	but i've never used sfdisk before. :) - so how to just wipe out the partition?	03:03
MNZ	FIQ, if by wipe out you mean remove the current filesystem you have on it... then you don't really need to wipe it out, just repartition the device and create new filesystems. I haven't used sfdisk myself before, I'm used to fdisk, but you should get it on your desktop and read the man page	03:04
oneil	there was a probl!m with GV('data':('code':20) 'ok' false)	03:05
lcuk	oneil, which application window or log did you read that from	03:06
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SkyscraperN900	mohammadag51 whats up with ubuntu??	03:06
MNZ	FIQ, http://linux.die.net/man/8/sfdisk	03:06
oneil	dail central	03:07
FIQ	ty	03:07
lcuk	oneil, did it used to work?	03:07
oneil	no i just installed it. but the google talk works on my pc	03:08
lcuk	then look on the dialcentral bug trcker	03:08
MNZ	oneil, have you tried the built in google talk integration in maemo? Maybe that'll do?	03:09
SkyscraperN900	hm... have to sleep. good night!	03:10
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oneil	i tried the one that comes with the phone but it keeps on dailing with no tone	03:10
andax	good night SkyscraperN900	03:11
oneil	but my skpe works fine	03:12
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PolarFox	Wow... I like the old kinetik scroll :)	03:21
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oneil	mzn, i got the erro message from dail central	03:31
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MNZ	oneil, sorry can't help. I'd say give the built in one another shot and see what happens. Look for the dial central's bug tracker and see if this is already reported	03:35
oneil	thanks. where do i find the bug tracker? on maemo?	03:39
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GAN900	http://bugs.maemo.org	03:46
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lainwir3d	hi	03:51
lainwir3d	i'm trying to import a client pkcs12 certificate for website authentification	03:52
lainwir3d	however it doesn't seems to work	03:52
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lainwir3d	when i try to import it it ask for a "purpose" and i get these choice: server / wifi / email	03:53
lainwir3d	whatever i choose even if i check all of those it doesn't seems to work in maemo's browser	03:54
lainwir3d	oh... N900 with PR1.2 btw	03:54
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lainwir3d	does someone have an idea please? i think that my certificate has something wrong with it because i read somewhere that there should be another option	03:55
lainwir3d	like "web browsing" or similar	03:55
GAN900	I'd tend to blame Maemo	03:58
GAN900	but I don't deal with certs, so I have no suggestions.	03:59
lainwir3d	well thanks anyway for answering :)	04:01
lainwir3d	oh	04:02
lainwir3d	found something in apt	04:02
lainwir3d	"microb-engine-common-ext - Cert and password manager for microb"	04:02
lainwir3d	i'm going to try that	04:02
oneil	x	04:02
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lainwir3d	ok i got it to work by cheating	04:12
lainwir3d	if someone is interested:	04:13
lainwir3d	i typed "chrome://pippki/content/certManager.xul" into microb address bar and "firefox" certificate manager appeared. From there i just added my certificate	04:13
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lainwir3d	well then	04:16
lainwir3d	good night	04:16
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pupnik	DocScrutinizer: The TAS5631 is a high-performance PWM input class-D amplifier with integrated closed-loop feedback technology (known as PurePath HD technology) with the ability to drive up to 300 W (1) stereo into 4- to 8- speakers from a single 50-V suppl	04:30
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pupnik	http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tas5631.html	04:31
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pupnik	oh i found a direct-digital amplifier NAD M2 ($5999)	04:46
Dhraakellian	recommendation for a mail client with threading?	04:47
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pupnik	mutt supports threading Dhraakellian	04:56
pupnik	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients half way down you can see which support threads :)	04:57
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DocScrutinizer51	heh, that cert manager URL of lainwir3d is amazing. Quite worth the bookmark, even with google icon :-P	05:04
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pyther	Hi	05:37
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pyther	Is there any place to save busybox aliases?	05:37
pupnik	you mean shell aliases like ll='ls -al'	05:39
pupnik	?	05:39
pupnik	@ pyther	05:40
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pyther	pupnik: yes	05:40
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DocScrutinizer	I usually have them in a special file ~/aliases and this file gets sourced in one of the init scripts	05:41
pyther	DocScrutinizer: ok that is good to know I found out that I can put them in .profile to	05:44
DocScrutinizer	SURE YOU CAN, BUT IT'S AWKWARD	05:44
DocScrutinizer	oops sorry capslock	05:44
DocScrutinizer	I have `alias -p >$HOME/bash-aliases` in my .bash_logout	05:47
pyther	how is it awkward?	05:48
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DocScrutinizer	and in .bashrc I have `. $HOME/bash-aliases`	05:48
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* luke-jr notes Maemo doesn't use bash		05:49
DocScrutinizer	what sed + awk cruft would you suggest do implemet same thing for holding alies defs in .bashrc directly?	05:49
pupnik	interesting, never thought of adding aliases automatically	05:49
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: maemo doesn't use aliases either	05:50
luke-jr	pupnik: me either, if I add them, I always go straight for the bash_profile	05:50
DocScrutinizer	but I do :-P	05:50
pyther	DocScrutinizer: busybox support aliases	05:50
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: I think pyther was asking about Maemo	05:50
pyther	I was	05:50
DocScrutinizer	so what?	05:50
DocScrutinizer	Nokia-N900-42-11:~# which bash	05:51
DocScrutinizer	/bin/bash	05:51
luke-jr	which one	05:51
pyther	and alias ihr="/home/user/iheartradioN900.py' works if and stays if I toss it into .profile	05:51
luke-jr	one: not found	05:51
DocScrutinizer	~nuke messybox	05:51
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... B☢☢M!		05:51
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pyther	Well I better go to bed, I got class in the morning my iheartradio script works	05:52
DocScrutinizer	pyther: happy messing around with nano for each silly alias	05:52
pyther	DocScrutinizer: I only need a few right now	05:52
DocScrutinizer	alias as=alias	05:53
pyther	haha	05:53
DocScrutinizer	as lp=lart pyther	05:53
pyther	later all	05:53
DocScrutinizer	oops that's not bash	05:53
kerio	~lart \| nuke DocScrutinizer	05:56
* infobot whips \| nuke DocScrutinizer with a wet and grimy noodle just because		05:56
kerio	infobot: learn to piping commands	05:56
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ghostnik11	hi, I am not a nokia or maemo user but i am interested in becoming one but before i can i must find out if nokia/maemo phones can do my call setup	06:41
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ghostnik11	so wanted to know if there is a callback mechanism application for nokia/maemo phones using google voic	06:42
ghostnik11	google voice	06:42
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SpeedEvil	As far as I'm aware nobodies done anything google voice related yet.	06:51
SpeedEvil	Not looked at it - as voice hasn't worked in the UK	06:52
ghostnik11	speedevil: thanks for the comment, and i am sorry i thought that n900 users where using dialcentral app to make callback calls with google voice	06:53
ghostnik11	the thing is i use google voice and a sip client on my android powered phone to make free calls over data eliminating my cellular min usage and now that i have the set up configured perfectly on a htc magic low end android smart phone i wanted to get a power nokia smart phone as it would more than likely give me better call quality through data connection on mobile cellular network	06:55
DocScrutinizer51	aiui google voice has been gizmo(5) has been gizmo project has always been SIP	06:56
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DocScrutinizer51	and - if this might not have been clear - maemo has a working quite nicely integrated SIP client	06:58
ghostnik11	docscrutinizer51: I found out about how to do it through gizmo to late as gizmo doesn't let new users register as I think google saw what people were doing and getting free calls without using cellular minutes and had to stop that process	06:58
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DocScrutinizer51	doesn't sound like a reasonable story to me	06:59
ghostnik11	docscrutinizer51: i figured out a way without sipsocerey and gizmo and it works, its just that i need a more powerful phone	06:59
Muelli	ghostnik11: how did you set up your callback thing?	06:59
ghostnik11	muelli: well on the android market someone a developer created google voice callback application that simulates you actually going into google voice web page and picking the contact number and pressing call	07:00
DocScrutinizer51	yuck	07:01
Muelli	hm. okay. I don't know how Google voice actually works.	07:01
ghostnik11	okay	07:01
ghostnik11	can i talk just like this without putting peoples names in front	07:02
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ghostnik11	or do i have to do that as a rule of the channel	07:02
MohammadAG	morning #maemo	07:02
Muelli	But how is that a callback mechanism? I mean, is that any different from how you'd regularly use Google Voice?	07:02
DocScrutinizer51	depends	07:02
Muelli	And writing a thing that scrapes a google page should be relatively easy. Hence, shuold be quickly done for Maemo.	07:03
ghostnik11	muelli well what it does is it interupts your outgoing call and calls your google voice number and then you hear your cell phone ring and when you accept, it then lets the outgoing call continue	07:03
* DocScrutinizer51 wonders what for you'd need such incredible crap		07:03
Muelli	hm ghostnik11. So you use your dialing/phonebook UI normally? How would be able to not use Google Voice then?	07:05
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ghostnik11	yeah i use my dial/phonebook ui normally	07:05
shinkamui	lol	07:05
shinkamui	I haven't been around for a while	07:06
DocScrutinizer51	well, I do same when doing SIP calls fron N900	07:06
shinkamui	and this is what I come back to	07:06
shinkamui	:-D	07:06
shinkamui	nonsense	07:06
ghostnik11	and what happens with this google voice callback app is that you tell it to take over as your main dialer so it basically overides the built in dialer so	07:06
DocScrutinizer51	just I don't need any special google voice BS for that	07:06
shinkamui	sounds like you found the worst possible way to use google voice and are trying to shoehorn it onto a community that doesn't like bullshit	07:07
shinkamui	bullstuffs	07:07
asj	can the n900 dial out via google talk now?	07:07
ghostnik11	when i make a call you see the google voice callback app come up and say logging in to google voice, then registering call back then it rings my phone	07:07
* shinkamui fliches		07:07
DocScrutinizer51	ghostnik11: N900 dialer HASmsip!!! no fsckng need to override	07:07
ghostnik11	shinkamui: i am not trying to blow any bullshit, and i would never do that to disrespect your channel, thats not what i am about, i am about trying to learn a new way to do this on a nokia phone when i can get my hands on one and leave my android phone	07:08
shinkamui	lol!	07:09
shinkamui	please proceed. Forgive my rudeness	07:09
ghostnik11	docscrutinizer51: excuse my stupidness as you are probably a super developer and i am not, i am just an end user who tries to apply developers work to make my life easier but what is n900 dialer hasmsip	07:10
DocScrutinizer51	is ia 'HAS sip' with anm erratic m in place of ' '	07:11
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SpeedEvil	SIP is integrated into the normal dialer.	07:11
SpeedEvil	You can place a call via SIP as easily as a normal call	07:11
ghostnik11	speedevil: but my sip address i only have it as an incoming call setup and don't have it as a outgoing call setup	07:12
ghostnik11	my sip account is with iptel.org	07:12
MohammadAG	need PR1.2 firmware packages for 002 and 003 firmware variants	07:12
pigeon	does anyone know or can find out the install size of instinctive (the app)?	07:12
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pigeon	i keep getting not enough space when installing it...	07:13
doc\|home	ghostnik11: then you need to set up with another provider. I use diamondcard.us	07:13
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: go dl them then	07:14
ghostnik11	doc\|home: well i don't use another provider because I can cut that cost by making the outgoing call with google voice as it is free to call the states and Canada	07:14
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, they're on the SSU repo and each country variant has a different one	07:14
MohammadAG	apparently you can't add one for the other	07:15
doc\|home	ghostnik11: then what's the problem?	07:15
MohammadAG	mp-fremantle-002-pr	07:15
MohammadAG	mp-fremantle-003-pr	07:15
MohammadAG	got -generic-pr	07:15
ghostnik11	doc\|home: the problem is i need an app that will do the process for me, instead of me going into a web browser every time and selecting a contact and pressing call on the google voice web page	07:16
doc\|home	ghostnik11: looks like you found a new project	07:16
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ghostnik11	doc\|home: basically i am asking for something similar to a dial plan in a sense but is intergrated with my contacts from the phone	07:17
DocScrutinizer51	excuse me... (runs for bathroom, puking)	07:17
pigeon	sorry, should be "instinctiv "	07:18
doc\|home	ghostnik11: if none exists then it looks like you've found a new itch to scratch for yourself.	07:18
DocScrutinizer51	there's roundabout 6 dozen SIP providers allowing free calls to US	07:19
DocScrutinizer51	and, as mentioned err elaborated above, google voice was gizmo and so should also be usual SIP	07:21
ghostnik11	docscrutinizer51: i know i have tested some of them like voipdiscount and others but the thing with those is that	07:21
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ghostnik11	docscrutinizer51: in the fine small print they say you get this much free calling per month based on an ip address but don't tell you that there are others with the same ip address so you end up going over your actually minutes allowed even if you personally didn't	07:22
doc\|home	the enter key: not substitution for commas	07:22
doc\|home	ghostnik11: then those providers are idiots	07:23
doc\|home	look for others	07:23
DocScrutinizer51	never seen such silly fineprint. Maybe you just should reread	07:24
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MohammadAG	need - packages - now	07:24
MohammadAG	community ssu depends on it :P	07:24
SpeedEvil	ghostnik11: http://maemo.org/packages/view/dialcentral/ ?	07:26
ghostnik11	speedevil: yeah i was looking at that and was interested in it but wanted to know how it worked and as i don't own an n900 wanted to ask if someone here has used dialcentral and how was it	07:27
SpeedEvil	Don't have google voic	07:28
SpeedEvil	e	07:28
ghostnik11	speedevil: for example if dialcentral has the google voice callback feature then it will work perfectly and i wanted to know if it only worked with gizmo users	07:28
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pigeon	hmm...	07:28
pigeon	apt-worker: free space (/home/) = 110739456, apt-worker: You don't have enough free space in /home, required disk space: 3709960, result code = 7	07:29
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DocScrutinizer51	~trout apt	07:34
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SpeedEvil	ghostnik11: check for a tmo thread on dialcentral or a homepage	07:35
* infobot slaps apt around a bit with a large trout!		07:35
pigeon	wow, some lag there...	07:35
SpeedEvil	http://gc-dialer.garage.maemo.org/	07:35
SpeedEvil	or just read that	07:35
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ghostnik11	speedevil: read it and it doesn't say anything about a callback mechanism included, for example i am google voice app on my android phone and when you place a call through it, it usually connects you to a google number or a number that routes the call through your cellular minutes this way the carriers still earn there money,	07:39
DocScrutinizer	free minutes based on IP addr - tzz. I'd guess that applies for anonymous usage, as it really doesn't make any sense if you register with the SIP provider and properly authenticate	07:40
ghostnik11	docscrutinizer: have you heard about the betamax user and the FUP policy	07:40
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ghostnik11	users	07:40
DocScrutinizer	no	07:41
ghostnik11	can i put a link to the page about it	07:41
DocScrutinizer	and I bet I'm not interested in it	07:41
ghostnik11	okay cool	07:41
pigeon	i cleaned up about 300MB off /home and it's finally installing... :\	07:41
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DocScrutinizer	pigeon: you really should kick out that greedy game eating up >1GB of your /opt	07:43
pigeon	well, that's close to what i did... i moved away openarena's data ;)	07:43
TermanaN900	nom nom nom - data!	07:43
DocScrutinizer	pigeon: probably send it back to maintainer/devel, together with an angry hornet hive	07:44
TermanaN900	DocScrutinizer isn't from the ghetto. He ain't no (game) player	07:44
SpeedEvil	Well - mail the autrhor. Or find some thread of discussion on it , or ...	07:44
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TermanaN900	or do nothing	07:45
DocScrutinizer	pigeon: I toldya bout `du /opt\|sort -n`, didn't I?	07:45
pigeon	well i did du --max-depth=1 -x /home/opt \| sort -n	07:46
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pigeon	apart from /opt/maemo, the biggest i've got is icedtea6 and sygic	07:47
ghostnik11	speedevil: i am thinking of just asking a question to the users who use this app in the maemo forums	07:47
pigeon	still waiting for australia sygic map :(	07:48
pigeon	glad that i'm not the only one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59066	07:49
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm, sygic being greedy? I guess they didn't read about 'installing in opt and mydocs' in maemo wiki	08:02
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DocScrutinizer51	I'd call that a bug, and pester them to deliver decent software for my money	08:02
Stskeeps	mydocs makes sense considering their data load	08:02
Stskeeps	wouldn't fit in /opt	08:03
Stskeeps	and their installation method of maps	08:03
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johnx	morning humans	08:05
Stskeeps	morn	08:05
johnx	I looked at contextkit	08:06
johnx	It looks like everything I had in mind, except more	08:06
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johnx	I still like the idea of hooking up something like dbus-scripts to it, for apps that don't use it natively, but do except commands over dbus	08:09
Stskeeps	:nod:	08:09
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johnx	which means I should get some distro running that includes contextkit :)	08:09
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DocScrutinizer51	pigeon: opt/maemo was large? that's something that needs further investigations	08:14
pigeon	DocScrutinizer51: well i think a lot of packages have things installed there.	08:15
DocScrutinizer51	yep	08:15
pigeon	that's why it's quite big.	08:15
pigeon	my whole /opt/maemo is 375MB	08:15
DocScrutinizer51	mine 70	08:16
pigeon	wormux-data is 107MB	08:16
pwnguin	hrm. now that google talk is basically live for everyone in canada / us, has anyone figured out if there's SIP settings one can use for it?	08:16
johnx	yup. was just about to say, tends to get used by games rather heavily	08:17
pigeon	a lot of them for me are installed, tried, and left it there, never really played them again :)	08:17
pigeon	sometimes it's handy when i need to show people.	08:18
DocScrutinizer51	pigeon: for such purpose I usually fire up HAM and install something that will impress them. The 5min to load I use to explain to them it's just because there's such a lot of nice apps and it needs to download the descriptions of all of them now :-P	08:22
pigeon	;)	08:23
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DocScrutinizer51	if the people to entertain are of the tech savy kind, you also can explain about apt-get is lightning fast, compared to HAM, But you want to show the nice GUI of App Manager, incl the pkg descriptions :-)	08:28
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slonopotamus_	slonopotamus: err...	08:41
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slonopotamus	!	08:41
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DocScrutinizer51	mhm	08:47
DocScrutinizer51	slonopotamus: do you need IRC to talk to yourself? :-P	08:47
ruskie	lol	08:49
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slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer, and endles rivers of coffee	08:52
slonopotamus	s#les#less#	08:53
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ebzzry	On Fremantle, is there a way to make the system notify me of 'Conversations' messages, even if the window to which the message comes from is in focus?	09:38
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johnx	you mean like flash the LED?	09:43
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ebzzry	johnx: Sorry for being ambiguous. I'm looking for audible notifications.	10:03
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pigeon	i thought it already has that	10:05
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ebzzry	pigeon: It doesn't ding when the window is in focus.	10:07
pigeon	iirc, it still makes a sound, but different sound.	10:08
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pigeon	like a knock knock sound, much softer one.	10:08
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pigeon	i could be wrong though... and i couldn't test it right now.	10:11
johnx	ah, you're right	10:12
pigeon	so i was wrong then?	10:12
johnx	I think you're right	10:12
johnx	but I can't find the setting	10:12
johnx	maybe it gets set as part of the that 'system sounds' 'level 1' thing?	10:13
pigeon	probably, i always find that mysterious...	10:13
pigeon	it's like an "everything else" sound setting :)	10:13
mece_	im's knock, emails ding and messages dingding.	10:14
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ebzzry	level 1 and level 2 is too narrow to be defined as a decent setting for things like that	10:16
johnx	I don't even know WTF level 1 means?	10:17
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pigeon	i believe it's volume level.	10:17
johnx	Like do I get the sounds from the first level of super mario bros? or ... ?	10:17
johnx	aaah,	10:17
johnx	but doesn't it have a volume slider next to it?	10:18
* johnx checks		10:18
pigeon	no	10:18
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ebzzry	no	10:20
ebzzry	Sometimes I miss messages because of this behavior.	10:21
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crashanddie	I just had the CEO come in my office and apologise that they won't be able to purchase an iMac for me	10:35
jacekowski	oO	10:35
Stskeeps	cos they're firing you?	10:35
Stskeeps	:P	10:35
kerio	omg	10:35
kerio	no iMac... :(	10:35
kerio	ask for a macbook	10:36
crashanddie	I never asked for one -- they just assumed I wanted Apple hardware because I'm temporarily using my macbookpro considering I don't have anything from the company yet	10:36
jacekowski	i already have to many computers	10:36
SpeedEvil	They have a corporate deal with Gillette?	10:36
crashanddie	I'm starting to love this gig :D	10:37
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crashanddie	hot or not? http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/cars-amp-girls-blonde-flanks-lamborghini-lp560-tt/cg_05.jpg	10:37
kerio	crashanddie: you're using your own laptop	10:37
kerio	you're lucky	10:37
crashanddie	I guess?	10:38
crashanddie	I'm just lacking a nice big screen and a couple gigabytes of RAM, but yeah, otherwise I'm lucky	10:38
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jacekowski	i wouldn't ever use my own tools for work	10:38
johnx	crashanddie, lambos are kinda meh to me	10:38
crashanddie	johnx: you're more the kind of guy who'll buy the bugatti watch for $260k?	10:39
kerio	i'd hit that	10:39
johnx	kerio, better have good insurance ...	10:39
Circassian	better to have	10:39
kerio	no, the blonde chick	10:39
johnx	crashanddie, I wouldn't mind a pagani	10:40
kerio	why are you focusing on the car, you faggots	10:40
crashanddie	johnx: or the Lexus LFA?	10:40
crashanddie	(don't mind the name)	10:40
johnx	crashanddie, GT-R over the Lexus, even though the Lexus is darn neat	10:40
crashanddie	eh? GT-R over the LFA?	10:40
crashanddie	HAVE YOU SEEN THE FIGHTER JET COCKPIT???	10:40
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jacekowski	if i would buy car to drive around i would go for subaru impreza	10:41
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mece_	the lfa is wicked.	10:41
johnx	jacekowski, as in the WRX or STi or just an impreza? :P	10:41
jacekowski	if i would buy car to show off it would be either ferrari or maybe lamborghini	10:41
jacekowski	johnx: as in WRX	10:41
jacekowski	but juz impreza would do	10:41
crashanddie	johnx: http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/parmigiani_fleurier_bugatti_super_sport/parmigiani_fleurier_bugatti_super_sport_001.jpg	10:41
johnx	jacekowski, ah, cause if you want a 96 impreza, I've got one to sell you :)	10:42
crashanddie	johnx: going for just $259000	10:42
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johnx	crashanddie, didn't top gear test both the LFA and GT-R?	10:42
crashanddie	jacekowski: I'd recommend the STi	10:42
jacekowski	johnx: i wouldn't be able to afford to insure it yet	10:42
jacekowski	johnx: i'm 21 and no no claims discount	10:43
jacekowski	johnx: and already done one claim of my insurance	10:43
johnx	jacekowski, bummer. I pay my parents and stay on their plan. ssssshhhh :)	10:43
jacekowski	johnx: which was clearly my fault	10:43
crashanddie	johnx: yeah, last season Top Gear played with the LFA, and a couple seasons ago they did a challenge across Japan in the GT-R	10:43
jacekowski	i pay £1200/year for small 1.3l	10:43
crashanddie	jacekowski: lmao	10:43
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crashanddie	I pay 200eur for my motorbike :D	10:44
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crashanddie	which is only a 0.1L engine	10:44
crashanddie	but still	10:44
johnx	crashanddie, but they had power lap times for both :) GT-R had 1:19 to the LFA's 1:22 ... but the LFA lap was wet so it doesn't mean anything	10:44
jacekowski	well, 0.6l motorbike would cost me about 15k to insure	10:44
jacekowski	per year	10:44
crashanddie	because you don't have the licence?	10:44
crashanddie	:P	10:44
jacekowski	i do	10:44
crashanddie	you have your full bike licence?	10:45
jacekowski	no	10:45
jacekowski	ehh	10:45
jacekowski	i have just car license	10:45
jacekowski	but i when i checked prices i said that i have license	10:45
crashanddie	ah yes, but they check records mate	10:45
jacekowski	no	10:45
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crashanddie	erhm, yeah, they do.	10:45
crashanddie	well, depends on the company	10:45
jacekowski	so why they ask if i have license	10:45
jacekowski	and stuff	10:46
jacekowski	like how many accidents i had	10:46
jacekowski	besides, they can't check my records	10:46
crashanddie	did you give your car licence date and the supposed bike licence date?	10:46
jacekowski	they don't have access to dvla database	10:46
crashanddie	then they do a cross reference on that, and if they can't find anything, they put max prices, because they assume you've never been insured	10:46
johnx	for 1.3 or 1.4L? a Fiat 500 Abarth EsseEsse might not be bad ...	10:47
jacekowski	they can't check that here	10:47
crashanddie	johnx: it also depends on the kind of car, not really the displacement	10:47
johnx	bummer	10:47
crashanddie	jacekowski: that's how gocompare does it	10:47
crashanddie	jacekowski: and most probably confused.com as well	10:47
johnx	you know that's one of the things that fueled the power/displacement engineering in Japan?	10:47
johnx	It really was based on displacement (for a while at least. not sure about now)	10:48
jacekowski	comparethemeerkat.com	10:48
crashanddie	johnx: basically, in mainland europe, the main factor is the "fiscal power"	10:48
crashanddie	johnx: which is an arbitrary number decided by the government, depending on size, weight, power, acceleration and safety	10:48
jacekowski	what's funny	10:48
kerio	your man card is automatically revoked btw	10:48
jacekowski	is that it would cost me only £600 to insure lamborghini	10:48
johnx	crashanddie, what's awesome here, is that the individual insurance companies just pull a # out of their butts	10:49
jacekowski	3rd party only	10:49
crashanddie	johnx: yeah, it's way too regulated here... Companies interchange records, bla bla bla... But in the US, the insurrance fluctuates based the tickets you get, no?	10:50
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crashanddie	based on**	10:50
johnx	crashanddie, ohohohoh. nonono. It's based on gender and grades, and whatever statistics they want	10:51
jacekowski	well, points on license change costs here as well	10:51
crashanddie	oh, maybe I'm confused with the UK then	10:51
jacekowski	and it would even make it cheaper for me if i would be married	10:51
crashanddie	the whole points system is ridiculous though	10:51
jacekowski	or own a house	10:51
johnx	no regulation means that they pull no punches when figuring out exactly how likely you are to make a claim	10:52
crashanddie	jacekowski: well yeah, because statistically speaking, you're less likely to drive as an idiot when you've engaged "for life", rather than dry humping a girl in sussex	10:52
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jacekowski	why sussex?	10:52
jacekowski	that's really interesting	10:52
crashanddie	well, you're polish, you either live in sussex or Bromley/Lewisham	10:53
jacekowski	you missed	10:54
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crashanddie	ouch, only 50 megs available RAM on your server?	10:56
crashanddie	and swap maxed out aswell	10:56
crashanddie	!	10:56
Circassian	?!	10:56
jacekowski	well, take a look clouser	10:56
jacekowski	closer*	10:56
jacekowski	29% used	10:56
jacekowski	rest are buffers and caches	10:56
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crashanddie	your swap shouldn't be showing as 100% used though	10:57
crashanddie	unless the script is misinterpreting things?	10:57
jacekowski	it is 100%	10:57
jacekowski	i have leaking java app runing	10:57
jacekowski	and it's just getting swapped out	10:58
jacekowski	Swap: 1998 1995 3	10:58
ShadowJK	3 megs free, that's still ok :)	10:58
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ShadowJK	it's at 0 you worry	10:58
ShadowJK	oom is nasty	10:59
johnx	I've had really great experiences with it :)	10:59
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akiniemi	how do you open a new window in a stack with the right orientation?	11:00
akiniemi	I'm using Qt, and it seems windows are always forst in landscape mode...	11:01
akiniemi	s/forst/first	11:01
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Zucca	I don't know much about apt package manager, but I'd like to know how to see a list of files a package has installed. I guess it can be done in cli?	11:03
steinex	Zucca: dpkg -L package	11:04
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Zucca	steinex: Thanks. :)	11:04
jacekowski	steinex: it's only swap	11:04
jacekowski	ShadowJK: *	11:04
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jacekowski	total used free shared buffers cached	11:05
jacekowski	Mem: 7988 7937 51 0 53 5515	11:05
jacekowski	-/+ buffers/cache: 2368 5620	11:05
jacekowski	Swap: 1998 1996 2	11:05
jacekowski	crashanddie: i'm in colchester	11:05
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Funnyface	grrr fucking n900 froze during the night and now I've overslept	11:07
thresh	I use excuses like that too for my boss	11:07
nid0	i learned the hard way years ago to always use 2 alarms :)	11:07
jacekowski	why you disabled watchdog?	11:07
jacekowski	nid0: i use 6 alarms and it's sometimes not enough	11:08
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Funnyface	it was the alarm app itself, not the N900 actually	11:08
Funnyface	the stop/snooze (is that what it's called in english) stuff was stuck on the screen and I had to kill it	11:08
johnx	Funnyface, I see that sometimes too	11:09
nid0	i sometimes have the button take 2-3 seconds to go away after stopping the alarm, but never had it freeze/fail on me	11:10
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Funnyface	the funny thing is that I have used 2 alarm clocks every day for the last 2 weeks when I had to use an alarm, but today when I only used one was the only time it didn't work	11:11
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johnx	it can tell. it knows.	11:14
koala_man	Funnyface: miss anything important?	11:15
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yannux	I've submitted my package to extra devels repository, but I dont understand the building error. someone can help me ?	11:17
yannux	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/vlc-remote_0.5-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt	11:17
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X-Fade	yannux: Do you have build-depends for libqt4-dev ?	11:18
yannux	ah shxxxttttt x) forgot it	11:18
yannux	shame on me	11:18
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yannux	X-Fade: is there a way to have complete it automaticly ?	11:23
X-Fade	yannux: Complete what?	11:24
yannux	Build-Depends:	11:24
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X-Fade	yannux: Complete -> Generate?	11:24
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yannux	yes	11:25
Stskeeps	X-Fade: saw my post re closed blobs on community obs?	11:25
X-Fade	yannux: dpkg-checkbuilddeps	11:25
X-Fade	Stskeeps: No, haven't gotten to the lists yet.	11:25
Stskeeps	k	11:25
yannux	ok thanks X-Fade	11:26
Stskeeps	X-Fade: wrote some technical opinion on how to deal with quim's proposal of only building for meego api (but on m5,m6)	11:26
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yannux	X-Fade: same error :s	11:30
X-Fade	Stskeeps: I think the problem with this is that you have to rely on Qt-mobility to provide all platform/hardware specific features.	11:31
Stskeeps	X-Fade: :nod:	11:31
X-Fade	Stskeeps: So only high level stuff will be available.	11:31
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Stskeeps	X-Fade: otoh qt mobility is getting developed for m5	11:31
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Sure, but if you want to use the light sensor for example, you are out of luck.	11:32
Funnyface	koala_man: yes I did	11:32
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Funnyface	my visit to the doctor + 4-5 classes worth of school	11:32
X-Fade	Well, pure kernel things can be allowed too.	11:32
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yannux	X-Fade: I've replace debian/rules by those here : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39962 and now it's compiling on my scratchbox armel target , before he wasn't	11:35
yannux	X-Fade: files uploaded to extra devels, must be build from armel or x86 target on the scratchbox ?	11:36
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X-Fade	yannux: Doesn't matter as you build a souce package.	11:41
yannux	ok	11:42
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yannux	X-Fade: thanks, build is OK now :D	11:50
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X-Fade	yannux: Good ;)	11:52
yannux	X-Fade: once it's build, it's available on the n900 application manager, (with extra-devels of course)	11:52
yannux	?*	11:52
X-Fade	yannux: Takes a while for it to be imported/mirrored.	11:53
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yannux	some hours ? days?	11:53
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Khertan_	Morning everyone !	11:54
X-Fade	yannux: up to an hour, most of the time less than 30 minutes.	11:54
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Khertan_	~seen achipa	11:54
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infobot	achipa <~bear@Maemo/community/council/achipa> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6d 17h 23m 10s ago, saying: 'Jaffa: hm, right, though if you go that route you can say it's already that way - I don't think there are other clients leaving python urllib agent strings :)'.	11:55
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Khertan_	X-Fade: hi	12:02
Khertan_	X-Fade: someone say me ... ask to X-Fade ... this is guy ...	12:02
Stskeeps	Khertan_: out of curiousity, did you switch to qt yet?	12:02
Khertan_	X-Fade: got a question about maemo news ... the content of the news didn't appear in the planet : http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:a5799af9ac17abc99d28d8047c32e427/	12:03
Khertan_	X-Fade: does there is a reason ? (i use the wrong format for example)	12:03
Khertan_	Stskeeps: yep :)	12:03
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Khertan_	Stskeeps: khteditor and khweeteur are in pyqt	12:03
Stskeeps	cool	12:03
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bilboed-pi	moin all. Anybody knows if there are lensfun/ufraw lens profiles for FCamera/n900 ?	12:04
Khertan_	and khteditor is far away faster than pygtkeditor to highlight python code	12:04
X-Fade	Khertan_: That is just because it is more than 1000 words.	12:04
Khertan_	X-Fade: ah ... ok :) thx ... i ll try to do shorter next time ... as i didn't like when we just see the link in the planet :)	12:04
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X-Fade	Khertan_: Yeah, the article shortening algo can be smarter. Patches welcome ;)	12:05
Khertan_	X-Fade: is it python code ?	12:06
X-Fade	Khertan_: no, php	12:06
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Khertan_	hum ... i'm not a specialist :)	12:07
Khertan_	anyway where is source ... i could try :)	12:07
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lma	X-Fade: Hi, I'm available for testing for the next hour or so if you need me	12:07
X-Fade	lma: Did you upload the final part?	12:07
lma	Yup, but there's something wrong with the PGP signature, I just emailed you as well	12:08
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Stskeeps	when was it approximately, time wise, that quim announced no more gtk?	12:10
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Stskeeps	ah, over a year ago	12:10
X-Fade	lma: Ok, it didn't sign it automatically.	12:11
Khertan_	Stskeeps: at least ... qt is really useable since a few time (pr1.2)	12:11
X-Fade	lma: Let me check why.	12:11
lma	X-Fade: ah, true, I just noticed that Release.gpg is a couple of days old	12:11
Stskeeps	Khertan_: did you have any luck with pyside/pyqt on meego yet?	12:12
mece_	heh. What douchebaggery is this? http://i.imgur.com/opkj8.jpg	12:12
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Khertan_	Stskeeps: nope :) it s not available yet ... and wasn't able to build it ...	12:12
Stskeeps	Khertan_: ok	12:12
Khertan_	but once it s available i ll try it ...	12:13
Khertan_	:)	12:13
Khertan_	my sd card is ready with meego on it :)	12:13
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Khertan_	but i khteditor and khweeteur will need some modification to work with pyside ... as it s not really api compatible with pyqt :)	12:14
X-Fade	lma: Ok, found the issue.	12:14
Khertan_	as pyside isn't ready ... there is still some strange behavior	12:14
X-Fade	lma: Do you have another package you can upload by chance?	12:14
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lma	No, that's it for now	12:15
lma	Would re-uploading an existing one work?	12:15
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X-Fade	lma: Nah, I'll just run the sign part myself for now. Should be ok for the next run.	12:16
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Khertan_	re	12:21
X-Fade	lma: Update shows up for me now.	12:22
Stskeeps	Khertan_: did you ask the old pymaemo people if they're doing anything for meego?	12:22
Stskeeps	like, for pyqt/pyside	12:22
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Khertan_	nope i didn't ask ... but i think the work is in progress	12:23
Stskeeps	k	12:23
lma	X-Fade: same here, thanks!	12:24
Khertan_	i think i ll try this new QtMobility in khweeteur instead of playing with dbus :)	12:24
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Khertan_	QNETWORKSESSION seeems a really good idea ... simplify a lot many things !	12:25
Khertan_	but binding is for pyside and not pyqt :(	12:25
Khertan_	so this meens a switch to pyside	12:26
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mece_	well, at least pyside is getting some attention..	12:28
X-Fade	lma: SSU completed fine on my device.	12:28
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mece_	Khertan_, khteditor is awesome!	12:33
Jaffa	dneary: ping	12:34
dneary	Jaffa, Pung	12:34
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Jaffa	dneary: Nominations should be open now, have you got the list of eligible candidates and an announcement to publish?	12:35
dneary	Jaffa, Will do it ASAP.	12:35
Jaffa	dneary: Thanks	12:35
dneary	Assuming that karma counts are up to date...	12:36
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Jaffa	A question for bergie and/or X-Fade, I guess	12:38
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X-Fade	lcuk: ping?	12:47
Khertan_	mece_: thks !!!	12:51
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Khertan_	mece_: the pylint plugin need fix :)	12:52
Khertan_	mece_: but it s in progress	12:52
Khertan_	mece_: and i need some help to implement more native hilighter for other language	12:52
Khertan_	as the python one is native	12:53
Khertan_	but the other use pygment	12:53
Khertan_	so other can be slow :)	12:53
Khertan_	mece_: and i need to add some preferences for tabulation too and a comment/uncomment support for other language	12:54
Khertan_	autoindent plugin is for python only	12:54
Khertan_	there is many things to do :)	12:55
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crashanddie	there are	13:04
* crashanddie waves at Khertan_		13:04
crashanddie	como vach?	13:04
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Jaffa	Oh, that's classy. Just got an email asking if I'd like to interviewed for Sky Radio's series "The Innovators" because of my work with Maemo. It's a great way to promote my business, apparently, so it'll only cost me $3,995 to be interviewed!	13:05
crashanddie	lmao	13:06
jaska	:D	13:06
crashanddie	"your business"	13:06
crashanddie	Well, for reporters, they're sure doing a bad job	13:06
jaska	their business	13:06
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crashanddie	Jaffa: I'd forgotten that you own maemo.com and are seriously considering conquering the UK market	13:07
timeless	ooh, you own maemo.com?	13:07
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X-Fade	Nah, that is Nokia itself too.	13:08
crashanddie	timeless: sorry, I forget </sarcasm?	13:08
crashanddie	X-Fade: yeah, btw the DNS should point to something a bit more interesting that "NORECORDS"	13:08
timeless	some tags aren't optional ;-)	13:09
ieatlint	the word "conquer" doesn't really belong anywhere near the word maemo	13:09
crashanddie	it does if you're trying to place a phone call	13:09
ieatlint	lol	13:09
jaska	emphasis on trying?:)	13:10
ieatlint	maemo should just be subtitled "good intentions"	13:10
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crashanddie	haha, excellent	13:10
crashanddie	"Good intentions does not a successfull OS make"?	13:11
timeless	-l	13:11
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Khertan_	crashanddie: there are ... yep :)	13:12
ieatlint	how about just "better than wimo, at least"	13:12
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crashanddie	ieatlint: well, not really	13:14
ieatlint	hrm, how about "Sold more than the Microsoft Kin phone"	13:15
crashanddie	I mean, if you look at it, ieatlint, there is one more thing we need to consider when judging Maemo as a whole. Y'all remember Chewbacca? Chewbacca is a Wookie from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!	13:15
X-Fade	crashanddie: Just Nokia domain squatting ;)	13:16
ieatlint	i vaguely recall chewbacca, yes	13:16
ShadowJK	he was the one who hadn't shaved that morning	13:17
crashanddie	Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with Maemo? Nothing. It has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I am an IRC troll idling in #maemo, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? I am not making any sense! None of this	13:18
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ShadowJK	and you're using an irc client unaware of 512 byte limit	13:18
crashanddie	just irssi :)	13:19
ieatlint	crashanddie, i'd guess he was compensating for something	13:19
ieatlint	you know, like how to a midget you seem really big	13:19
crashanddie	ieatlint: maybe I'm a person of low height?	13:19
crashanddie	ieatlint: midget is a very insulting word, you know.	13:19
crashanddie	maybe you'll use gnome or monkey next?	13:19
ieatlint	i wouldn't have used it otherwise	13:19
ieatlint	"vertically challenged"	13:20
Duckboot	I'm an oversized gnome	13:20
crashanddie	Duckboot: those are called trolls :D	13:20
Duckboot	crashanddie: Haha	13:20
Duckboot	crashanddie: Perhaps monkey is a more suiting word for me....	13:20
* timeless arrives @HEL		13:21
Khertan_	hum ... there is many small differences between pyside and pyqt4	13:21
ieatlint	i was once tempted to write a utility called midget that would get things midway through a file	13:21
Khertan_	and i like their doc : http://www.pyside.org/docs/pyside-dev/PySide/QtCore/Qt.html	13:22
DocScrutinizer	dman, it's THURSDAY, not friday :-P	13:23
Duckboot	DocScrutinizer: NSS	13:23
DocScrutinizer	New zSealand Zsouth?	13:23
DocScrutinizer	~wtf nss	13:24
infobot	Gee... I don't know what nss means...	13:24
DocScrutinizer	look, not even ibot knows	13:24
Duckboot	My son had a suggestion to a perfect week: saturday, sunday, friday, saturday, friday, saturday, friday	13:25
Scelt	no fridays, you gotta work those days	13:25
DocScrutinizer	I'd miss one sunday	13:25
ShadowJK	as long as there are no mondays	13:25
DocScrutinizer	... and I'd need to dl Dr.House from the internets, due to missing tuesday	13:26
Duckboot	Scelt: Fridays are always nice	13:26
Duckboot	DocScrutinizer: NSS = No Shit Sherlock	13:27
DocScrutinizer	OMFG the TV program :-/	13:27
DocScrutinizer	seems like they change saturday program every 6 months or so	13:27
* Duckboot does not watch TV.		13:28
DocScrutinizer	I need to, not to forget what spoken German sounds like	13:28
Duckboot	DocScrutinizer: I have a german sister-in-law, so I'm covered.	13:28
DocScrutinizer	well, I have the lady at the supermarket cashier, a "hello!.... Nice evening" every 4 days should suffice	13:30
Duckboot	;-P	13:30
DocScrutinizer	that's about as much as I speak, or hear of directly spoken words. ~0.5 words / day	13:31
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ShadowJK	You could start pretending you're deaf mute	13:32
ShadowJK	and write hallo in Sketch on n900	13:32
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DocScrutinizer	I adopted the habit of occasionally mumbling the English I type in here :-D	13:34
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Duckboot	DocScrutinizer: I have 3 kids - Believe me - I would prefer silence.	13:34
* DocScrutinizer does		13:34
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DocScrutinizer	just noticed a double click on BT headset hold button will repeat last outbound call. Anybody knew about that, and if yes then where from?	13:36
DocScrutinizer	s/peat/dial/	13:37
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: just noticed a double click on BT headset hold button will redial last outbound call. Anybody knew about that, and if yes then where from?	13:37
DocScrutinizer	meh, on wired headset it doesn't work	13:40
Surfa	it should have been from the beginning	13:40
Surfa	it's bt feature if I recall correctly	13:40
Surfa	all nokia devices should behave the same way for the bt headset button clicks	13:41
DocScrutinizer	bt for sure has absolutely no idea about redialing	13:41
DocScrutinizer	at least for SCP or whatever profile is used for phone headset	13:42
Surfa	yes, but nokia bt sw does some logic for the buttons	13:42
DocScrutinizer	Surfa: I'm quite sure they don't, as some offer voice dialing on pressing button when no call established	13:43
Surfa	if you feel so :)	13:43
DocScrutinizer	there is no Nokia bt sw afaik	13:43
Surfa	i don't remember details and don't really feel like looking for them right now	13:44
DocScrutinizer	it's all plain bluez	13:44
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Surfa	to some point yes, but bluez must forward some information to phone components too?	13:45
timeless	nokia wired has a special proprietary protocol	13:46
DocScrutinizer	I think it creates input events	13:46
timeless	which the n900 doesn't support	13:46
timeless	so for wired you get a fairly minimal set	13:46
DocScrutinizer	timeless: I'm talking bout the plain simple headset button	13:46
timeless	bt is more standardized w/ better magic	13:47
timeless	heh	13:47
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timeless	capt jere nokia welcomes me aboad	13:47
* timeless is flying HEL to OSL to LHR		13:47
DocScrutinizer	timeless: I know about the protocol, or to be exact I do not know despite I tried to find out	13:47
timeless	so i can wave to the trolls for a minute	13:47
timeless	anyway, we're off	13:47
timeless	i'll see people some time next week. have a good weekend	13:48
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DocScrutinizer	Surfa:	13:52
DocScrutinizer	[127233.459381] hci_h4p hci_h4p: firmware: requesting bcmfw.bin	13:52
DocScrutinizer	[127244.121490] input: 00:1C:A4:30:7A:A8 as /class/input/input4	13:52
DocScrutinizer	[129020.923797] headphone (GPIO 177) is now connected	13:52
DocScrutinizer	[129022.041503] input: headset button as /class/input/input5	13:52
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DocScrutinizer	if anybody has any pointer to / or generic info about the Nokia wired headset multimedia control protocol... Really appreciated! :-)	13:56
Duckboot	DocScrutinizer: There is a package somewhere which enables the volume-buttons on the headset.	13:56
DocScrutinizer	or maybe schematics of any such headset, or schematics of a Nokia phone compatible to such multibutton wired headset	13:56
Duckboot	extras-dev og -test	13:56
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: ping?	13:57
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DocScrutinizer	Duckboot: duh?! volume buttons of wired headset?	13:57
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Duckboot	DocScrutinizer: Jepp	13:57
DocScrutinizer	o.O	13:57
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Duckboot	DocScrutinizer: headset-control	13:58
Duckboot	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=21182	13:58
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DocScrutinizer	Duckboot: I can't find any mentioning of volume control via multibutton headset in that thread	14:08
dotblank34	Anyone noticed they added voip calling from gmail?	14:08
dotblank34	perhaps its implemented with google talk and maybe you can use xmpp to make land line calls	14:08
DocScrutinizer	from???	14:08
dotblank34	http://www.google.com/chat/voice/	14:09
DocScrutinizer	dotblank34: We had that topic some hours ago. AIUI google voice is SIP	14:09
PerfDave	Google uses an XMPP extension to do SIP initiation over Jabber, yes.	14:09
DocScrutinizer	ouch	14:09
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dotblank34	anyone to connect with the n900 sip client?	14:09
DocScrutinizer	fsck google	14:10
dotblank34	anywhere*	14:10
PerfDave	DocScrutinizer: AFAIK it's an open standard, and implemented by other clients.	14:10
DocScrutinizer	open: maybe. Stnadard: dooooubts	14:10
dotblank34	PerfDave: if thats the case then its entirely possible to program your own client	14:10
dotblank34	to sue gmails xmpp google voice dialer extension	14:11
dotblank34	use*	14:11
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DocScrutinizer	well, I read some page months ago, about google inherited gizmo5, and gizmo is plain SIP afaik	14:12
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DocScrutinizer	so google should offer that interface as well	14:12
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dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: yes but this seems to be implemented over xmpp now	14:12
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DocScrutinizer	then none of the gizmo users could continue to use his plain simple SIP	14:13
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DocScrutinizer	and there was some advice how they could do that	14:13
DocScrutinizer	iirc	14:13
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dotblank34	when I get it to work with my gmail account im going to test it with wireshark and see what its really doing	14:13
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DocScrutinizer	dotblank34: that's irrelevant	14:14
dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: How so?	14:14
DocScrutinizer	as elaborated above this will be SIP over XMPP	14:14
dotblank34	if I see the traffic is running over xmpp/jingle	14:14
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dotblank34	ok so it is over xmpp then	14:14
* DocScrutinizer shakes head and wants to shout "READ!"		14:15
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DocScrutinizer	<DocScrutinizer> well, I read some page months ago, about google inherited gizmo5, and gizmo is plain SIP afaik [2010-08-26 13:12:30] <DocScrutinizer> so google should offer that interface as well [2010-08-26 13:13:10] <DocScrutinizer> then none of the gizmo users could continue to use his plain simple SIP	14:16
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DocScrutinizer	it's possible the plain SIP interface is restricted to gizmo users	14:18
DocScrutinizer	though I'd not exactly see why they would want to do this	14:18
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DocScrutinizer	meh, nuke google with all its BS	14:20
dotblank34	The question is how does the gmail client interfaces with with google voice	14:20
dotblank34	can you even tunnel SIP through xmpp?	14:21
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PerfDave	It doesn't tunnel SIP through XMPP, as I understand it. It just uses XMPP to do the handshaking.	14:21
DocScrutinizer	please stop spreading nonsense. a mail client can not connect to a voice service	14:21
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crashanddie	PerfDave: eh?	14:21
crashanddie	PerfDave: SIP is the handshaking protocol	14:21
crashanddie	that's what SIP is all about	14:22
zash	jingle is also a handshaking protocol	14:22
dotblank34	ok right... but the voice and video addon for gmail wich as I understand it contains a xmpp client	14:22
dotblank34	so we are talking about that	14:22
zash	google talk is xmpp	14:22
dotblank34	So is it now also a sip client too?	14:22
crashanddie	not necessarily	14:23
crashanddie	they could still be using the xmpp frontend	14:23
crashanddie	connect to a google server, which then does the SIP networking	14:23
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DocScrutinizer	B2B UA	14:23
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dotblank34	I think the only way to really find out is use wireshark	14:24
DocScrutinizer	find out about what?	14:24
crashanddie	you most probably won't see a lot	14:24
crashanddie	everything is https with gmail	14:24
DocScrutinizer	how to emulate shit we don't really want to use?	14:25
crashanddie	dotblank34: for the record, SIP uses RTP and RTCP to transfer the voice component. Basically SIP just says "Hey, I've got someone who wants to call you, send your voice data on this address at this port, I can use these codecs, but would prefer this one"	14:26
DocScrutinizer	http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/voice/thread?tid=16817c950860c1fb&hl=en	14:27
crashanddie	then the other party replies "OK, you can send your voice data on this address at this port, and I'd like to use this codec, I'll let you know when my guy answered the phone"	14:27
PerfDave	crashanddie: Have they fixed that then? They used to do https for most things, but some http which allowed cookie-stealing. It was talked about on the Tor mailing list a lot.	14:27
crashanddie	gmail never allowed the https attack	14:27
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dotblank34	Does the addon for google talk int he web browser use https?	14:27
crashanddie	well, it did, like any other service, but then they moved on to always-on https	14:27
dotblank34	cause thats a seperate addon	14:27
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: nope, SIP usually uses RTP, but basically SIP is agnostic about the transport protocol	14:28
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crashanddie	yeah, I just wanted to explain that SIP itself doesn't do voice or video or anything transfer	14:28
DocScrutinizer	correct	14:28
dotblank34	crashanddie: right	14:28
crashanddie	I also wanted to point out that it's going to be a real pain to implement properly, honestly	14:29
dotblank34	What if google implemented a xmpp to sip gateway that you could make calls with jingle?	14:29
PerfDave	Fair enough, I just see "SIP client" when I look at VOIP software.	14:29
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dotblank34	wouldn't that make more sense?	14:30
dotblank34	then having the gmail voice client use sip	14:30
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dotblank34	google would then have to implement a dialing extension to xmpp and thats it really	14:31
dotblank34	maybe it doesn't perform well	14:31
crashanddie	sip -> jingle -> xmpp -> sip?	14:32
dotblank34	jingle is an extension of xmpp	14:32
crashanddie	link?	14:33
dotblank34	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle_(protocol)	14:33
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crashanddie	ta	14:33
zash	http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0166.html	14:33
dotblank34	it would basically be a sip to jingle/xmpp bridge	14:34
dotblank34	in fact asterisk boxes can already do that	14:34
mece_	Stskeeps, are there changelogs for the meego releases somewhere?	14:35
* mece_ is talking about the n900 weeky releases		14:35
crashanddie	erhm	14:35
crashanddie	dotblank34: I don't see the point, really	14:36
Stskeeps	mece_: yes, they come out with the normal release announcements on meego-dev	14:36
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crashanddie	dotblank34: you're talking about a p2p session control protocol	14:36
crashanddie	dotblank34: for phone calls to server entities?	14:36
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DocScrutinizer	FSCK google voice :-/	14:36
dotblank34	crashanddie: yes	14:37
domrep666	hi	14:37
crashanddie	dotblank34: why?	14:37
domrep666	Hallo mein Schatz.Ich bin soo schlecht im bett, kannst du mir nachhilfe geben ?:) C2C, T6, Realtreff, 3 D Livecams 5 Minuten Gratis Testen. www.hottangacam.com	14:37
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MohammadAG51	too late	14:37
crashanddie	damn	14:37
dotblank34	crashanddie: its not perfect but it means it would work with existing xmpp/jingle clients	14:37
dotblank34	liek the n900 :)	14:37
MohammadAG51	muhahaha	14:37
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DocScrutinizer	there's a zillion nice SIP providers offering great service for free, now google jumps in and cooks it in sulfuric acid and offers it as the invention of sliced bread, and all the ***** are jumping on the train	14:38
dotblank34	well us calling is free	14:38
dotblank34	thats why	14:38
DocScrutinizer	domrep - web interface?	14:38
crashanddie	dotblank34: I'm calling the whole world for free	14:38
dotblank34	crashanddie: with?	14:39
* PerfDave stills wants nice free cross-platform voice+video		14:39
crashanddie	dotblank34: free.fr	14:39
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dotblank34	but you had to buy the box right? I can't read the website so I can't really tell the details	14:40
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dotblank34	seems like its 15/month or 20/month	14:40
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crashanddie	dotblank34: 30euros a month, 100mbit down, 50mbit up, unlimited data (no fair use), unlimited phone calls to 3/4 of the world, 300 hd tv channels through TV over IP, etc, etc	14:41
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crashanddie	sip service, unlimited web space, unlimited ftp space, etc	14:42
dotblank34	Im guessing its not available in america	14:42
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: now that's the way to think about it :-) fsck google 'free calls'	14:42
dotblank34	:(	14:42
crashanddie	nope, only France, and selected countries	14:42
crashanddie	err	14:42
crashanddie	selected cities, rather	14:43
dotblank34	Im stuck with vertizon	14:43
dotblank34	verizon*	14:43
crashanddie	I'm laughing my ass off when I see bloggers wondering how long Google will be able to keep up with the free calls to the US	14:43
dotblank34	I pay about 500$ a month for cellular, tv and internet	14:43
crashanddie	the US has some of the lowest termination fees in the bloody world	14:43
dotblank34	its insaine	14:43
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: that's why they can offer outbound for free	14:44
crashanddie	heck, your mobile termination fees is the same as your landline, that is unheard of in other countries	14:44
crashanddie	US/Canada is the only place I can call mobiles at the same rate as landline (free)	14:44
DocScrutinizer	and then your mobile carrier charges you for inbound minutes? LOL	14:45
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dotblank34	crashanddie: um im not too sure what you mean.. termination fees in the US on 2 year contracts are about $170 + cost of phone	14:45
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: yeah well, their problem, not ours :P	14:45
DocScrutinizer	yep X-P	14:45
crashanddie	dotblank34: call termation fee, not contract.	14:45
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: you can call the us for free with skype as well	14:45
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: well, some numbers	14:45
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crashanddie	though, Skype deliberately deteriorates the quality of calls to free numbers	14:46
DocScrutinizer	FWD is offering free US calls?	14:46
crashanddie	front wheel drive?	14:46
DocScrutinizer	free world dialup	14:46
dotblank34	crashanddie: my god that ticks me off so much.. it is nearly unbearable and I bought my own number+subscription	14:46
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DocScrutinizer	well USA==third_world_of_telecommunication	14:47
dotblank34	Voice and telephones makes me want to rage	14:48
dotblank34	and internet in the US	14:48
MohammadAG51	EU ftw	14:48
DocScrutinizer	only in USA you can buy 512 cheap mobile phones, mount them into a rack, with a server connected to all of them via data cables, and open your own carrier service	14:48
dotblank34	I get 30/5 for about $100 a month	14:48
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DocScrutinizer	honestly, harald welte told me he seen such gateways between GSM carriers. "forward to AT+T? sorry all our 512 AT+T cellphones are currently occupied. please call again later, or tell you friend to use our service instead of AT+T"	14:51
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dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: wait what?	14:52
DocScrutinizer	carrier A using cellphones reistered to carrier B's network to forward your call originated in A to destination in B	14:53
dotblank34	um can't you just use something like flowroute	14:53
kerio	DocScrutinizer: that's illegal here :\|	14:53
ieatlint	google just bought two phone services to get this, they don't have a stack of gsm phones on a rack somewhere for it :P	14:55
kerio	and yeah, i still don't get how they can get away with charging you for the SMSes you receive	14:55
ieatlint	those lucky enough to have gizmo accounts have sip for this, etc	14:55
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dotblank34	you can sms bomb people	14:55
dotblank34	wich is insaine	14:55
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ieatlint	i can sms bomb people on maemo using a bash script	14:56
ieatlint	meh	14:56
dotblank34	lol	14:56
lcuk	dont you get the dialog saying how much credit is left?	14:56
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dotblank34	most people I know have unlimted text so... doesn't really matter	14:56
lcuk	after every message sent	14:57
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: on reception of inbound SMS? :-P	14:57
ieatlint	nah, it matters... it may not cost them anything to get the sms, but if you really hammer their phone, they can't do anything with a new sms notification every 2 seconds	14:57
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, I meant on outbound	14:57
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ieatlint	or, they can't do as much at least.. :P	14:57
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dotblank34	I don't think it would hammer then900 as much	14:57
lcuk	i remember pr1.0 I could send sms messages one word at a time, using [ENTER] as punctuation	14:57
lcuk	drove luke batty	14:57
frals	lcuk: :D	14:58
lcuk	but that fun ended :)	14:58
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: LOOOL rotfl	14:58
frals	lcuk: and then theres congestion and they end up in the wrong order on her phone	14:58
frals	:D	14:58
lcuk	and now theres a dialog that pops up after each message is sent	14:58
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frals	dialog? O_o	14:58
DocScrutinizer	?? not here	14:58
frals	teh wat	14:58
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* frals thinks lcuk has done something to his phone		14:59
lcuk	if user=='lcuk' stop_him_from_sending_sms();	14:59
lcuk	??	14:59
* DocScrutinizer thinks lcuk has configured reception notification for his SMS		14:59
frals	grep -iR "workaround to stop lcuk spamming" *.. yepp, seems about right lcuk	15:00
lcuk	it tells me my balance after sending	15:00
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frals	lcuk: dont have that here	15:00
DocScrutinizer	ooh	15:00
frals	lcuk: how did you get that? :D	15:00
DocScrutinizer	that's a feature of your carrier	15:00
DocScrutinizer	N900 has no notion of your balance neither a way to query it	15:00
lcuk	prolly more related to PAYG	15:00
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DocScrutinizer	carrier is sending a SMS type "notification" to you, on every sent SMS	15:01
* lcuk gotten used to it		15:02
ieatlint	i seem to recall that being an optional feature that you can turn on/off	15:02
DocScrutinizer	there's a friggin lot of different SMS types: config SMS, plain SMS, UTF SMS, invisiible SMS, blinking SMS	15:02
DocScrutinizer	...	15:02
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: reception notification is	15:03
dotblank34	can't you send an sms to change the settings of the phone?	15:03
DocScrutinizer	"SMS delivered to destination"	15:03
ieatlint	there's also a maemo widget for doing ussd queries that may be used to tell you any balance and such	15:03
dotblank34	ussd works on my phone now	15:03
DocScrutinizer	dotblank34: ... config SMS,...	15:03
dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: so thats what its called!	15:04
crashanddie	yeah, nothing like having a command prompt through SMS	15:04
MohammadAG51	who's on EU firmware?	15:04
ieatlint	yeah, but i mean instead of manually typing it, it does the query and formats the data it receives as you specify	15:04
dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: can yous end your own config sms to other phoens?	15:04
crashanddie	sudo gainroot; rm -rf /*	15:04
MohammadAG51	xD	15:04
DocScrutinizer	dotblank34: If you know how, then yes	15:04
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dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: lol really.. that really really insecure	15:04
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DocScrutinizer	well, you usually can't fake the sender info	15:05
RST38h	moo all	15:05
DocScrutinizer	and config SMS are madatory to ask user for OK	15:05
dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: usually?	15:05
MohammadAG51	moo RST38h	15:05
dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: well im sure 90% of the people I know would say ok	15:06
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DocScrutinizer	dotblank34: if you got no special 'wire' to the network exchange	15:06
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dotblank34	DocScrutinizer: sounds illegal	15:06
carp3	Hi, is it possible to install Symbian on N900 ?	15:06
DocScrutinizer	sure	15:07
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DocScrutinizer	even a cray emu	15:07
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DocScrutinizer	meh	15:09
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: well, it is definetely possible	15:11
kerio	with no restrictions about speed, of course	15:11
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		15:12
* DocScrutinizer wonders what chroot is called under symbian		15:12
kerio	write emulator, run emulator, ???, C&D!	15:12
DocScrutinizer	though you'd probably need something more brute force than just a chroot, to make maemo blobs work under symb	15:13
crashanddie	kerio: yes?	15:13
kerio	not you ._.	15:13
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SpeedEvil	It would be shiny though.	15:14
kerio	c&d as in cease and desist	15:14
SpeedEvil	s60-wine	15:14
kerio	wins60e	15:15
kerio	Wine Is Not a S60 Emulator	15:15
* SpeedEvil imagines the response to that turning up in extras-devel.		15:15
jaska	why? isnt symbian opensores?	15:17
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DocScrutinizer	jaska: is maemo oss	15:18
DocScrutinizer	?	15:19
jaska	some of it	15:19
kerio	so you see	15:19
DocScrutinizer	and why isn't al of it oss yet?	15:19
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jaska	you mean symbian is opensores but s60 isnt, rendering it useless?	15:19
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DocScrutinizer	no, I mean you'll have same hard time as mer had, to get it running on N900 natively	15:20
jaska	well, one would just emulate the userland interfaces, not the hw stuff	15:21
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, which firmware variant are you on	15:21
DocScrutinizer	international?	15:21
MohammadAG	damn	15:21
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DocScrutinizer	what else?	15:22
MohammadAG	dpkg -l mp-fremantle*	15:22
DocScrutinizer	UK?	15:22
MohammadAG	nah, EU	15:22
DocScrutinizer	there's no such thing afaik	15:22
MohammadAG	there's US/EU/MEA and global	15:22
DocScrutinizer	hmm, no idea	15:23
kerio	what's the difference?	15:23
DocScrutinizer	maybe I've chosen "western decadence"	15:23
kerio	i think i'm on EU, or global	15:23
DocScrutinizer	though the "A" not exactly meets this description	15:24
Jaffa	X-Fade: Did dneary ask you if the karma count is known & up-to-date? Nominations should have been announced as available from midnight UTC and... they're not.	15:24
MohammadAG	dpkg -l mp-fremantle*	15:24
MohammadAG	if it's mp-fremantle-generic-pr, it's global	15:24
MohammadAG	002 is US	15:24
MohammadAG	003 is EU	15:24
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Lies	15:25
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RST38h	Mohammad: solving that no-spanish-translations problem?	15:25
X-Fade	MohammadAG: 003 == Middle East and North Africa	15:25
MohammadAG	ah	15:25
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Check the list at: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	15:25
DocScrutinizer	ii mp-fremantle-generic-pr 10.2010.19-1	15:25
crashanddie	GAN900: have you tried quake live lately?	15:25
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zash	there is no EU calling code	15:28
zash	since EU isn't a country	15:28
zash	orwhat	15:28
ieatlint	i'm pretty sure it is	15:28
* zash has no clue of what is talked about		15:28
ieatlint	just like africa	15:29
kerio	tsamina mina eh eh	15:29
kerio	waka waka eh eh	15:29
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X-Fade	Jaffa: I'll check, but I haven't seen any issues.	15:33
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dneary	Stskeeps, Ping?	15:58
Jaffa	X-Fade: Ah, dneary's back now	15:58
Stskeeps	dneary: pong	15:58
Jaffa	Indeed, there ^^^	15:58
dneary	Jaffa, Yup?	15:59
Jaffa	dneary: Was asking X-Fade about karma status. His response "fine AFAIK"	16:00
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dneary	a. k	16:00
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RST38h	Nokia Care now on Twitter - @NokiaHelps	16:16
RST38h	Nokia also has a US specific Nokia Care account, @NokiaCareUS, which provides support for the US market. The @NokiaHelps account provides global coverage and is run by Juha-Matti Heikkinen (@JuhisH), Social Media Editor at Nokia Care.	16:17
RST38h	Stskeeps: Which one?	16:17
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Stskeeps	what?	16:17
RST38h	sorry wromg channel	16:19
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RST38h	Ok, short question:	16:25
RST38h	Standard Qt (not mobility thing). I need to implement a configuration settings page that only gets shown when (guess!) editing settings.	16:26
RST38h	What is the best/simplest way to implement it?	16:26
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RST38h	Anyone knows where I can get help on MADDE?	16:34
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RST38h	Shit, this MADDE thing is even more useless than SB =(	16:43
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andre__	Hmm, does nobody of the maemo.org crew use qaiku anymore, or has just everybody moved on to meego already except for me? :-P	16:49
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Stskeeps	xfade used it 8 days ago :P	16:51
andre__	I feel lonely! :-P	16:51
parser_	Does anyone know of any bluejacking tool for the N900 running maemo 5 ?	16:52
sx0n	RST38h, :)	16:52
X-Fade	andre__: Yeah, I should report more.	16:52
X-Fade	andre__: Just doing so many things at the same time that I forget to do that.	16:52
parser_	Noone?	16:53
andre__	X-Fade, hehe. well, wasn't meant as criticism, was just wondering :)	16:54
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pupnik_	amplifier tests - what to look for etc http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=855865	17:21
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disse	heyho	17:25
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disse	I've started the scratchbox environment, I could grab the mouse and keyboard with ctrl+shift. But I can't see my mouse cursor. I've followed this tutorial: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation	17:26
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disse	but I've forgot to -u $USER	17:26
disse	how can I fix this problems?	17:27
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disse	or how can I reinstall?	17:27
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tobis87	hi! since omap-aes does not work yet with aes-256, i searched a bit around and then i found this: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/another_new_aes.html	17:29
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disse	my problem is solved, XD	17:29
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tobis87	aes-128 is securer than aes-256 : "In the case of AES-128, there is no known attack which is faster than the 2^128 complexity of exhaustive search." "an attack against 11-round AES-256 that requires 2^70 time (is) almost practical."	17:29
disse	but only the mouse is not visible	17:30
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tobis87	The main problem seems to be the key schedule of AES-256, which is not of industrial strength" (..) Ironically, the new attacks work best against AES-256 (which was supposed to be the strongest member of the AES family), and do not currently seem to work against AES-128.	17:34
tobis87	The most disturbing aspect of the new attacks is that AES can no longer be considered as a safe black box construction, which can be dropped into any security application with little thought about how it is used.	17:34
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tobis87	but what could be done about it? schneier suggests to increase the number of rounds. maybe we will see double aes in the future (2AES) ?!	17:36
crashanddie	pardon the offence, but tobis87, are you another bruce bitch?	17:36
crashanddie	over the past few days, you haven't come in here without quoting bruce at least once	17:37
crashanddie	quite frankly, I don't care about aes 128 or 256 being compromised, and I doubt many in here do, it's a mobile operating system, one that gives you root access nearly out of the box	17:37
tobis87	crashanddie: sorry? no i haven't the first time that i write about bruce. or did i, i have to check.	17:38
Stskeeps	crashanddie: be nice, he's a contributing developer with interest in hw acceleration of crypto on n900.	17:38
crashanddie	if anything, a hammer or torn finger will give an attacker all the passwords he needs	17:38
Stskeeps	:P	17:38
crashanddie	Stskeeps: I know, I know, but I'm just trying to figure out what the point is	17:38
tobis87	crashanddie: for me it is knowledge, not use.	17:38
crashanddie	fair enough	17:39
RST38h	The po	17:39
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tobis87	crashanddie: no, i did not mention anything from him before, but i write to much about crypto stuff. i would be willing to help about host mode, but i don't know how i could, maybe i could bugtest the kernel if it becomes available.	17:44
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crashanddie	tobis87: truth is, when it comes to security, experts like schneier were predicting the end of DES and 3DES by the end of 2002, but it's still around -- and in very security-conscious industries	17:47
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crashanddie	rather than trying to get the best encryption possible, it's usually a lot cheaper and easier to implement security measures which don't really rely on technology to be strong	17:47
crashanddie	Why are we still using 3DES in the banking industry for online operation when we know it can be broken in a matter of hours (20 last I read, so probably 15 by now)?	17:48
crashanddie	Well, simply because the validity of the data can be numbered in seconds.	17:48
PerfDave	Uhm, it's more like the fact that the crypto is rarely the weak point in the security chain :)	17:48
tobis87	crashanddie: some banks even still use os/2 (or now ecomstation)	17:48
crashanddie	tobis87: well, depends what you're talking about, but a lot of ATMs still run windows 3.1	17:49
crashanddie	Heck, there's an ATM in London that had the fake antivirus "You need to purchase a subscription" banner splashed in the middle of the screen	17:49
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crashanddie	That malware didn't get there through credit cards, is was put on there by a techie with too much porn on his USB drive	17:50
tobis87	crashanddie: but why? the backward compatibility of windows is not that bad... win 3.x -> no memory protection	17:50
tobis87	and only cooperative multitasking	17:51
crashanddie	because ATMs are usually (if not always) third party, and it's the company that is supposed to do the maintenance	17:51
crashanddie	well, ATMs don't really require multitasking :P	17:51
crashanddie	you can't even display the balance and withdraw cash at the same time :D	17:51
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PerfDave	Hey, there's nothing wrong with having porn on a USB drive :p	17:52
tobis87	crashanddie: i even see some siemens nixdorf's are still in use	17:53
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tobis87	PerfDave: Nah, I'm old enough that I don't need to hide my collection. :-D , it's more about swap and the stuff you do on it.	17:54
MohammadAG51	ugh, i hate it when microb can't scroll with the mouse/ts	17:55
crashanddie	tobis87: considering how old the display server is, ssh and how buggy busybox is, I'm sure there are plenty of attack vectors other than a coldboot or swap dump	17:55
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MohammadAG51	how do i restart browserd after stopping it	17:57
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MNZ	MohammadAG51, a quick grep yeilds /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon.init	17:58
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tobis87	crashanddie: if you can do it, why shouldn't you do it... nmap n900_outside_ip gives "All 1000 scanned ports are closed", you will always find a way to exploit a device locally. i just say firewire dma :)	18:02
crashanddie	and a mobile phone is inherently local	18:03
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crashanddie	I come by your desk, have access to your phone, sit next to you on the bus, have access to your phone, heck, if we take bluetooth hacks into account, even taking a piss in the same bathroom as you is local	18:04
kerio	the ultimate hack would be to piss on it	18:05
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kerio	explain that to nokia care	18:05
crashanddie	heck, I'm almost willing to bet that as we speak, there's an app going easily through the QA process that is about to send each and everyone's keypresses wide into the internet	18:05
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MohammadAG51	MNZ, hmm, ty, browser still doesn't open pages	18:06
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tobis87	crashanddie: it always depends on how much you trust a program, there is a lot of crap, but people still think they need it. i do run tshark, from time to time to check, well except there also could be a rootkit in the background.	18:09
crashanddie	tobis87: well, if you install any new apps in the next month or two, there definitely will be.	18:09
DocScrutinizer51	uh?	18:10
tobis87	crashanddie: ?, nokiasiemens enhanced update? :-D	18:11
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Duckboot	crashanddie: http://www.rootkit.nl/projects/rootkit_hunter.html	18:12
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tobis87	http://www.security-projects.com/?Unhide	18:13
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kerio	monolithic kernel ftw	18:14
crashanddie	Duckboot: I don't see Maemo in there ;)	18:15
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crashanddie	"The first operators employed by the Bell Telephone Company were young boys who worked standing up. Only after several years did it occur to anybody to provide them with chairs."	18:18
crashanddie	In other news, the first choirboys singing in catholic churches had to study their text being bent over. Only after several hundred years did it occur to anybody that there may be something wrong with this.	18:19
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* RST38h #meego vaguely remembers comparing flahs memory prices in .PL vs .RU and they were the same		18:21
Duckboot	crashanddie: I might package that one for Maemo.	18:23
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kerio	crashanddie: lol	18:25
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hrw	http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/08/26/switched-from-catorise-to-apmefo/	18:27
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* VladNistor says hello		18:44
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VladNistor	i seem to have an issue with my N900, my clock is not showing up and it freezez when I try to open anything from the menu	18:46
VladNistor	even after flashing it	18:46
VladNistor	and I still have my contacts after flashing, which shouldn't happen if I read the wiki correctly	18:47
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VladNistor	and what I mean bu clock is anything to the right of my menu button until the app title, basically the notification area	18:47
crashanddie	the contacts shouldn't be deleted	18:48
crashanddie	unless you flash the rootfs as well	18:48
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VladNistor	I see, i did a firware update basically, thought it would get rid of the problem	18:49
VladNistor	but it's unasble as a phone now	18:49
VladNistor	and I can't mount it as a drive to back up my back-ups	18:50
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tobis87	Could you do df -h in xterm? Maybe the partitions are somehow messed up.	18:51
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VladNistor	i just don't get the option on the phone to select mass storage	18:52
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VladNistor	i have xterm access, yes	18:52
tobis87	You mean, if you connect it with usb, it doesn't give you the option?	18:52
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VladNistor	nope, some of the stuff doesn't work	18:53
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VladNistor	for example if I get a call, I can answer it, but after the call ends i can't use the device anymore, need to do a hard restart for it to work again	18:54
VladNistor	it just hangs	18:54
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VladNistor	and because i just flashed the firmware i don't know if i have ssh	18:54
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tobis87	you should try to flash it completly, root and emmc.	18:55
VladNistor	yeah, but i'd need my backup off my emmc first :(	18:55
tobis87	maybe something is messed up in /home/user	18:56
* VladNistor wonders why he didn't back up the backup		18:56
VladNistor	probably so, some settings somewhere	18:56
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tobis87	yeah, that is why i asked you about the option on usb. what os do you use on your pc? you could mount a network share and copy important stuff over.	18:57
churl	so you	18:57
churl	sorry	18:57
churl	so you guys hear about making calls from gmail?	18:58
VladNistor	the output of df -h seems ok	18:58
VladNistor	ubuntu maverick	18:58
tobis87	have you set up a nfs server on ubuntu?	18:59
VladNistor	lemme check	18:59
VladNistor	nope, i can install it though	19:00
VladNistor	tobis87, you're suggesting mounting the share and copying what I need. interesting	19:01
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tobis87	after you got nfs working on ubuntu, on n900, sudo gainroot, add extra-devel. apt-get install nfs-common, /etc/init.d/portmapper start, /etc/init.d/nfs-common start. mount ip-adress:/share /media/folder	19:02
tobis87	cp -r important_stuff /media/folder	19:02
VladNistor	yeah, small problem :)) i don't have root on the n900 as i just flashed it	19:03
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tobis87	apt-get install rootsh	19:03
PerfDave	Hmm, do you need to run portmapper and nfs-common on the N900 to mount a remote NFS share?	19:04
VladNistor	i'm not permitted :))	19:05
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tobis87	i'm not sure about nfs-common, but portmapper, yes...	19:05
VladNistor	i'm user, not root, so can't command line such stuff	19:05
VladNistor	yeah, i installed what I need :)	19:06
VladNistor	on the ubuntu i mean	19:06
VladNistor	do you know the command for the app-manager in maemo?	19:06
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tobis87	you have to install it from the application manager then, but you said that it always crashes, right? no, don't know the name	19:07
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VladNistor	yeah, i just tried through the menu, now the phone just stalls	19:08
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tobis87	VladNistor: Did you recently tried some hacks, for hildon or oc your device? My n900 also reboots if I open a folder with many pictures to fast. it the modified hildonfm from mece_, but i know how to avoid it, just need to wait a litlle bit after opening a folder.	19:10
DocScrutinizer	hildon-application-manager or hildon-application-manager.launch	19:10
VladNistor	yeah	19:10
VladNistor	it was Oc'd amd I tried M's hildon stuff	19:10
VladNistor	but i reinstalled hildon and the kernel after i got the issue	19:11
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DocScrutinizer	and the modules?	19:11
VladNistor	it doesn't reboot, mine just hangs there	19:11
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VladNistor	yes, i had some kernel modules installed	19:12
VladNistor	i did have some sort of kernel crash a few days ago	19:12
DocScrutinizer	well, have fun...	19:12
tobis87	mmh, i think it was not a good idea to allow precompiled kernel modules. some are for the old kernel before pr1.2.	19:12
tobis87	and are not updated	19:13
VladNistor	but the phone worked well until yesterday	19:13
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VladNistor	i would have expected stuff to go wrong after an update or smth	19:13
DocScrutinizer	~omap-oc	19:13
infobot	omap-oc is, like, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!	19:13
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tobis87	open xterm, and do find . -mtime -X (X are the number of dates ago it worked), you could also do this in /lib/modules or /etc	19:14
VladNistor	i had the oc installed but haven't actually run above 600 vor a few days	19:15
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VladNistor	what am I looking for exactly?	19:17
tobis87	VladNistor: It's not a good idea, but it also shouldn't fry your device instancly. Check the modules in /lib/modules, if they are the right ones. But your problem is that you can't install rootsh, which you need in order to backup your data, before you do a full reflash	19:18
VladNistor	yeah, it is. lemme see if i can run the hildon-app*	19:18
VladNistor	wow, options no longer have names, they're like ai_li_uninstall	19:19
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VladNistor	let's see if it can update the app lists	19:20
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tobis87	could you try fsck.ext3? but i think you need to remount the home partion ro first, if this is even possible.	19:21
VladNistor	is it normal for stuff to no longer have the display name... like it's saying wdgtbstop instead of Stop	19:21
VladNistor	yeah, ext3 needs to be offline methinks	19:21
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VladNistor	oh, and the phone gets quite warm, which didn't happen before :-?	19:22
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tobis87	as i said, probably the home partion is messed up. taking the battery out to restart is not very healthy, if the phone stalles.	19:23
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VladNistor	i keep the power button pressed and it dies	19:23
VladNistor	yeah, so I managed to install rootsh, but now i got a notification and it stalled, this is fun	19:24
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VladNistor	i'm restarting now... thanks for the help btw :)	19:25
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tobis87	has the same effect. the n900 should really have a sysrq key. so you could restart it if it's stalled.	19:26
tobis87	no problem	19:26
VladNistor	i bet they weren't expecting it to stall, lol	19:26
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tobis87	I had to work with on a server recently, and only a mac keyboard was availible. these also don't have a sysrq key.	19:28
VladNistor	heh, they thinks osx doesn't breal	19:28
VladNistor	break	19:29
tobis87	the grub entry was wrong, and there was no way to reboot the machine than pushing the power button. no reboot, init, halt worked.	19:29
tobis87	after fixing it.	19:30
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VladNistor	heh	19:31
VladNistor	alright, i need to setup a ntfs share in ubuntu now, brb	19:31
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tobis87	no the server runs debian, but they are all apple fan boys...	19:32
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ToeiRei	Hi	19:33
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tobis87	cat "/sharename ip_broadcast_adress (e.g. 192.168.0.0/24) (rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)" > /etc/exports	19:33
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tobis87	"/etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server restart"	19:34
ToeiRei	Is there a difference from the users point of view regarding flashing a rootfs and just 'updating' via Software updater app?	19:34
mgedmin	ToeiRei, yes	19:35
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mgedmin	flashing removes all 3rd party apps you had installed	19:35
ToeiRei	mgedmin: disregarding 3rd party apps and resetting anything to 'factory'	19:36
tobis87	ToeiRei: It depends, how much stuff you have installed, how much space you have and dist-upgrades mess much more stuff up.	19:36
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ToeiRei	I see... I just got a new N900	19:36
mgedmin	flashing is more reliable; upgrading is usually more convenient (no need to back up/restore stuff)	19:36
tobis87	ToeiRei: Do a flash.	19:36
zash	Do a barrel roll!	19:36
ToeiRei	okay. Now this will get interesting.	19:37
VladNistor	thanks tobis87, i was folloing a guid, just did that :))	19:37
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ToeiRei	okay... I found a howto on flashing and the device is at the charger... but regarding the images, what's the fiasco image?	19:38
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ToeiRei	well... the fiasco is that I can't find a proper one..	19:39
tobis87	ToeiRei: It depends, how much you have already done on your n900. You don't need to flash emmc. Do however open xterm first, and enter touch .cherry_state	19:39
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ToeiRei	terminal? uhm... that sounds scary.	19:40
tobis87	or was the file called	19:40
ToeiRei	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php gives me a number of images.	19:40
ToeiRei	eMMC and PR Versions	19:40
tobis87	yes, after you update to pr1.2 it sends a sms to nokia with your data... if you create that file, the sms is skipped.	19:40
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tobis87	well, there is also a package for this. mom	19:41
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ToeiRei	tobis87: I don't want to brick the N900...	19:41
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ToeiRei	I'm familiar to the bash regarding linux	19:41
VladNistor	tobis87, on my N900 i used mount address:/where-on/my/pc /home/user/MyDocs/remote but it's not giving any feedback	19:41
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tobis87	ToeiRei: you will, sometime in the future...	19:42
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ToeiRei	tobis87: I am working with linux already... I helped developing the btrfs at the kernel :P	19:42
VladNistor	don't I need to install smth with nfs on maemo?	19:43
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tobis87	ToeiRei: open xterm and do "> .cherry_state" this will prevend the n900 from sending a sms after flashing	19:45
tobis87	ToeiRei: http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription	19:45
ToeiRei	ah... in /home/user.	19:46
tobis87	VladNistor: This will not work, MyDocs is vfat, this does not support mounting.	19:46
ToeiRei	file created.	19:46
VladNistor	i see, so should i do it on the 2gb one?	19:46
VladNistor	*one=partition	19:46
tobis87	ToeiRei: yes, now you can flash.	19:46
ToeiRei	okay... so I can use RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ?	19:47
tobis87	VladNistor: Is the 2gb one the home? The home is ext3, so yes	19:47
VladNistor	tobis87, alright, so i don't need to install anything else then?	19:48
tobis87	ToeiRei: Yes, that is the right one...	19:48
ToeiRei	okay. so this is the fiasco image they're talking about in the howto?	19:48
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tobis87	VladNistor: No, you shouln't. I hope you don't have any firewall active. Maybe you have to check etc/hosts.allow as well on Ubuntu	19:49
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tobis87	ToeiRei: Just check the filesize the fiasco is smaller, since it doesn't need to restore emmc.	19:50
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ToeiRei	tobis87: it is smaller.	19:51
ToeiRei	I'll give it a shot	19:51
VladNistor	alright, so i did mount 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote	19:53
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VladNistor	the hosts.allow is empty, should I enter something there you think?	19:54
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tobis87	VladNistor: You also have to check for the permission of the folder you export. And if it is mounted, I think you can only copy as non-root because of root_squash	19:54
tobis87	VladNistor: No, this is only needed if you can't mount it	19:54
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VladNistor	yeah, i think i'm not connected to the network with the n900, sucks having no notification area...	19:55
VladNistor	application manager should connect fine :))	19:55
tobis87	but how could you mount it, if you are not connected?	19:55
ToeiRei	okay - it is flashing	19:56
ToeiRei	yay :)	19:56
* lbt wonders how many maemo devs are interested in the movement towards MeeGo...		19:56
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Stskeeps	lbt: i was wondering about a poll earlier	19:56
tobis87	ToeiRei: Make sure you flash kernel and root without restart.	19:56
Stskeeps	"gtk, wanting to move to meego" "gtk, want to stay in maemo", "qt, want to move to meego", "qt, want to stay in meego" or "qt, want to go to symbian"..	19:57
ToeiRei	I used the command from the wiki	19:57
Stskeeps	:P	19:57
lbt	Stskeeps: I nearly suggested it....	19:57
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lbt	but I wanted qualitative...	19:57
ToeiRei	kernel flashed, CMT flashed	19:57
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VladNistor	yeah, i know :(	20:02
ToeiRei	thanks	20:02
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VladNistor	tobis97, it just sits there, no feedback on what it's doing at the mount command	20:08
VladNistor	and i'm sure i'm online now :))	20:08
VladNistor	oh, it says it failed: Input/output error	20:09
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tobis87	try mount -o nolock 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote	20:14
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VladNistor	yeah, i got a call, rebooting :\|	20:17
VladNistor	it said permission denied when i used mount -t nfs	20:18
VladNistor	i'll try with the -o nolock :)	20:18
tobis87	your export should be: /home/nistor/N900 /home/remote 192.168.0.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)	20:19
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tobis87	argh no, /home/nistor/N900 192.168.0.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)	20:19
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tobis87	no /home/nistor/N900 /home/remote 192.168.1.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)	20:19
tobis87	i'd not have enough coffee today /home/nistor/N900 192.168.1.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)	20:20
tobis87	hosts.deny: ALL : ALL	20:21
tobis87	hosts.allow: ALL : localhost : ALLOW	20:21
tobis87	portmap : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW	20:21
tobis87	nfsd : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW	20:21
tobis87	mountd : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW	20:21
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tobis87	and you need to restart nfs-kernel-server and portmapper	20:23
VladNistor	nolock works mate, thanks a bunch	20:25
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tobis87	try to copy the files first, before you thank me. there could still be some permisson problems.	20:26
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VladNistor	yeah, just issued the command, nothing going on yet, let's see :))	20:31
VladNistor	i could make a dir in /home/remote, so i dunno	20:32
VladNistor	it wrote a couple of files so i guess it's working	20:34
tobis87	it does not show, what it is doing, if you use cp -vr it should be verbose.	20:34
tobis87	That was hard work, I hope you really need these files. I would always save important stuff on the sd card.	20:35
VladNistor	it's quite slow, only wrote 700k so far :))	20:35
VladNistor	i don't have an sd card :(	20:36
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tobis87	yes, i have seen this as well, i thought it was only a problem with openvpn. i tried using nfs over openvpn. so nfs is already slow, but why? power saving?	20:37
VladNistor	i have no clue, reduced the size of the transfer, not taking everything i wanted, it would take days :))	20:38
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tobis87	is net.ipv4.tcp_window_scaling enabled? check "cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_window_scaling", if it returns 0, do as root echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_window_scaling	20:41
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VladNistor	on N900 or Ubuntu?	20:42
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tobis87	both, mmh, but this can't be really the issue.	20:42
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VladNistor	they both have 1 :)	20:43
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tobis87	I don't now than. But I would also like to know why nfs is so slow on the n900.	20:44
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VladNistor	yeah, me too	20:46
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tobis87	let's test some stuff... do echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max; echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_max	20:48
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tobis87	echo "4096 87380 16777216" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rmem; echo "4096 65536 16777216" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_wmem	20:50
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tobis87	echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_timestamps; echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_sack	20:51
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VladNistor	sorry, i was fixing something to eat while i wait	20:52
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VladNistor	tobis87, on both, right?	20:52
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tobis87	on both machines and try it again. i hope it helps, disabling sack, and timestamps should reduce the cpu load and the other stuff increases the max buffer for tcp.	20:53
tobis87	yes	20:53
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VladNistor	it says permission denied on the ubuntu	20:54
VladNistor	with sudo also	20:54
tobis87	which command	20:54
VladNistor	first	20:54
VladNistor	echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max; echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_max	20:54
tobis87	you have to be root, not sudo. sudo su and than the command again	20:55
zash	VladNistor: sudo echo foo > somefile isn't opening the file with sudo permissions	20:55
zash	VladNistor: try echo ... \| sudo tee /proc/sys...	20:55
VladNistor	oh, i see	20:55
VladNistor	thanks	20:55
zash	since > redirection is done by the shell	20:56
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VladNistor	it's not copying anything :\|	21:00
VladNistor	i gave it the copy -r source destination but nothing is written on my hard drive	21:00
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tobis87	you should also try to mount the nfs share with mount -o nolock,hard,intr,rsize=8192,wsize=8192 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote	21:01
VladNistor	alright, i'll try that :)	21:02
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VladNistor	in a minute though	21:02
tobis87	mmh, and do cp -rv	21:02
tobis87	and make sure there is async in exports	21:03
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VladNistor	there is async	21:09
VladNistor	and i got a call and had to restart :\|	21:10
tobis87	forget the /proc/sys stuff, I'm sure rsize and wsize will improve it.	21:11
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VladNistor	thanks, the -rv option doesn't work, it seems to have a problem with the v	21:15
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VladNistor	doesn't seem to like that :))	21:17
tobis87	do you have coreutils installed? it would be gcp then	21:17
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VladNistor	man, thanks, it's 10000000 times faster :D	21:17
tobis87	warp speed!	21:17
VladNistor	40 mb so far :))	21:18
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VladNistor	yeah, it slowed a bit, but it's good :)	21:19
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tobis87	when will anything ever work on the n900, without hours of work. At least we have again learned something from it.	21:20
tobis87	up until the next call :-D	21:20
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VladNistor	yup, seems to have stopped though, nothing added in a minute :-?	21:22
tobis87	don't know maybe it swaps out to disk.	21:24
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tobis87	have you changed the default swapiness? it uses the unused memory, as a buffer.	21:26
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VladNistor	hasn't done anything in like 5 minutes	21:28
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VladNistor	then again i don't know how big the file is...	21:28
tobis87	how?	21:28
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tobis87	gls -Fho	21:28
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johnsq	Hi	21:30
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tobis87	or ls -h for busybox I think	21:30
th3hate	how to make busybox support bash commands?	21:31
johnsq	use bash	21:31
MohammadAG51	install bash and don't use busybox	21:31
th3hate	the package is called bash?	21:31
johnsq	MohammadAG51: ^5 :)	21:31
VladNistor	doesn't work	21:32
MohammadAG51	bash or bash3, not sure	21:32
VladNistor	the Fho, but there are 6 files and i only have 2	21:32
tobis87	apt-get install coreutils-gnu bash	21:32
MohammadAG51	johnsq, ^C	21:32
tobis87	echo "source /etc/bash.bashrc" >> /etc/profile	21:33
tobis87	and reopen xterm	21:33
VladNistor	hmmm, i doubt it's normal for the transfer to not do anything, and i'm sure i'm online	21:33
tobis87	you can also edit /sbin/gainroot and change sh to bash	21:34
tobis87	VladNistor: I don't know, but your n900 is serious borked. How important is this file for you? Is it an encrypted container, or why is that file so big?	21:35
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VladNistor	it's the backed up contacts and settings	21:36
VladNistor	and app list :))	21:36
VladNistor	oh, i'm gonna try something else, i think i have the contacts exported somewhere	21:37
MohammadAG51	how big is it?	21:38
tobis87	Do you really need the settings and the apps? Every day there are new versions in extra and -devel, you won't be able to restore all apps without work anyway. You could write down your contacts on paper.	21:38
VladNistor	total is 87 mb	21:39
MohammadAG51	heh, mine are around 65 or so	21:39
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VladNistor	all 260 of them? =))	21:39
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tobis87	So, you got 40mb, before it stoped. Why don't you try to split the file or compress it?	21:40
VladNistor	i did a ctr+c on the cp -r command and it doesn't stop :(	21:40
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VladNistor	they're 5 zips and a metadata	21:41
tobis87	open another xterm, sudo gainroot; ps ax \| grep cp; kill -9 (pid of cp)	21:41
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VladNistor	i have a udhcpc, would that be it?	21:43
VladNistor	it stopped, yay	21:43
tobis87	yes, tar the stuff. and split it.	21:43
VladNistor	what are the options for tar again? i can	21:45
VladNistor	i can't remember them	21:45
MohammadAG51	j for tar.bz2	21:47
MohammadAG51	z for tar.gz	21:47
tobis87	tar cvf name.tar file file file ....	21:47
MohammadAG51	x to extract, v for verbose	21:47
MohammadAG51	c to create	21:47
VladNistor	yeah, i googled it :))	21:47
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tobis87	but you should really use gtar, apt-get install gnu-tar, gtar czvf name.tar.gz file file file ....	21:48
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VladNistor	yeah, i should, but i don't have stuff installed on it	21:49
merlin1991	tar vs gtar what exactly is the difference?	21:49
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tobis87	merlin1991: i think gnu-tar supports more options. the default stuff on the n900 is busybox which is crap, if you are used to work with the gnu utils.	21:50
johnsq	merlin1991: the one does a good job in 10k the other need 100 mb for nothing more	21:51
johnsq	this is called the gnu syndrom	21:52
tobis87	but you now really need to install coreutils, for gsplit.	21:52
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tobis87	johnsq: it depends, i have if [ "$TERM" != "dumb" ]; then eval "`gdircolors -b`" alias gls='gls -Fho --color=auto --group-directories-first' alias ggrep='ggrep --color=auto' in /etc/bash.bashrc... working in xterm is much nicer with this.	21:55
frals	hmm	21:55
frals	what the requirements of being picked to maemo select?	21:55
frals	s/what/what's/	21:55
infobot	frals meant: what's the requirements of being picked to maemo select?	21:55
mece	big boobs	21:55
johnsq	tobis87: iiiih colors....	21:56
tobis87	yes, grep is much nicer with color. search terms in red.	21:56
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rtyler	halp! would it be possible to change the default browser used when clicking on links and such to use Opera Mobile instead of the builtin Mozilla-based browser?	22:20
* rtyler is using an n900 FWIW		22:20
MohammadAG	* Loaded log from Tue Jun 22 14:25:34 2010 <-- ~ sweet ~	22:20
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satmd	rtyler: Browser Switchboard is in one of the repositories	22:22
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Khertan	mece, if you use the gitorious version the pylint plugin is now fully working	22:24
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VladNistor	thanks tobis87, i've now flashed the emmc and it works like a charm :P	22:36
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MohammadAG	SDK installation fail	22:37
MohammadAG	Installing from Debian packages.	22:37
MohammadAG	dpkg: status database area is locked by another process	22:37
MohammadAG	Installation was successful!	22:37
rtyler	satmd: thanks for the tip :)	22:37
tobis87	VladNistor: That was hard work, but why does it fail after 40MB?	22:39
VladNistor	i have no clue mate, maybe the connection droped :-?	22:39
VladNistor	i had no notification area so couldn't confirm visually	22:40
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tobis87	VladNistor: But tcp has a timeout of 2h. I think it's this power saving stuff. Can't this get disabled in the driver wl1252?	22:41
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tobis87	or have at least an option in /proc/sys	22:41
VladNistor	it's happened to me quite often before i installed autodisconnect to get a wifi connection dropped	22:41
VladNistor	not as open as we'de like, is it?	22:42
tobis87	VladNistor: autodisconnect, why? the driver already does this. depends, there is source for wl1252, but i think it requires a binary blob.	22:42
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Stskeeps	wl1251	22:43
Stskeeps	:P	22:43
VladNistor	i don't know, but i'd be surfing the web, reading a long page for example and 3-4 minutes later when i was done the connection was gone	22:43
VladNistor	wifi that is	22:43
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tobis87	Stskeeps: wl1251, yes i didn't wanted to start the n900. again, i had enough to fumble today already. did you test nfs? i mean the n900 already brings the nfs kernel module with it.	22:46
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tobis87	Stskeeps: can this be caused by the autodisconector? i also had slow speed with nfs over openvp.	22:48
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tobis87	Stskeep: Mounting with rsize=8192,wsize=8192 really does improve the speed, but how can it break after some time?	22:49
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* ShadowJK wonders if skype on N810 is still "working"		22:58
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homeasvs	anyone know how I can further debug an /etc/init.d service that is not starting up for some reason ?	23:09
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tobis87	homeasvs: the files in /etc/init.d/ are scripts. you can open them in vim, if you know what it does, e. g. foo bar, you can run gdb foo and then enter start bar in gdb	23:12
homeasvs	tobis87, the script runs fine when I run it as root by hand, but I'm wondering how I can debug why it doesn't start at boot time	23:13
homeasvs	the headers look the same as some other scripts that do startup, the dependencies exist, ...	23:13
homeasvs	afaict there is no system log being written, so don't know where any startup errors would end up either...	23:14
ShadowJK	oh wow, I enabled Skype on N900, and enabled "Show my location", it's eating so much power now :)	23:14
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jacktheripper	apt-get dist-upgrade is spitting out this:	23:16
jacktheripper	upstart: PreDepends: sysvinit-utils (>= 2.86.ds1-23) or	23:16
mgedmin	homeasvs, n900?	23:16
jacktheripper	busybox (>= 3:1.6.1.legal-1osso8) but it is not going to be installed	23:16
tobis87	homeasvs: the n900 does not use init.d, it uses upstart	23:16
mgedmin	homeasvs, it doesn't use /etc/init.d	23:16
jacktheripper	I have a newer busybox. Where's the problem ?	23:16
mgedmin	homeasvs, you need to write an (old-style) upstrart script in /etc/init/	23:16
mgedmin	wait, or was it /etc/event.d/?	23:17
GAN900	ShadowJK, seems to be OK for me with rtcom location showing once it gets a fix.	23:17
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mgedmin	one is old-style upstart, one is new-style upstart	23:17
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homeasvs	mgedmin, really ? ok, I'll check, I had no idea!	23:18
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tobis87	you even have to add an entry to event.d in order to load modules on boot	23:18
kerio	jacktheripper: dist-upgrade is not meant to be used	23:18
kerio	by anyone	23:19
kerio	ever	23:19
kerio	it's there for...	23:19
kerio	why is dist-upgrade there?	23:19
jacktheripper	but how can I upgrade hildon-desktop ?	23:19
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ShadowJK	Everybody is supposed to use the GUI :)	23:19
kerio	apt-get update	23:19
kerio	apt-get upgrade	23:19
kerio	duh	23:19
jacktheripper	it's listed with the 'kept back' packages	23:19
mgedmin	jacktheripper, I'd say you have some repositories enabled that don't work properly for maemo	23:20
jacktheripper	could it be the community SSU's repo ?	23:20
mgedmin	can't say; I've never tried that one	23:21
mgedmin	I could try it	23:21
mgedmin	can you paste the relevant deb line from /etc/apt-sources.d/?	23:21
jacktheripper	the link is in #maemo-ssu	23:21
jacktheripper	there's a .install file if you prefer it	23:21
jacktheripper	I'll paste the line now, sec	23:21
jacktheripper	deb http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/repo fremantle-1.2.1 free	23:22
mgedmin	hm, maybe I should upgrade my n900 first	23:22
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MohammadAG	jacktheripper, you know... if I wanted to paste the line here in #maemo I wouldn't have made a channel for it	23:27
jacktheripper	uhh, he asked for it.	23:28
MohammadAG	:/	23:28
jacktheripper	and I don't know if the problem is coming from your repo. So I just asked here.	23:29
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MohammadAG	the repo is not ready for the general public, how'd you get the link anyways?	23:29
jacktheripper	#maemo-ssu	23:30
kerio	LOL GUYS I'M TOTALLY ADDING THAT REPO WHAT COULD GO WRONG	23:30
MohammadAG	nothing	23:30
MohammadAG	the only thing missing is a proper SSU package	23:30
kerio	so... it does nothing?	23:30
kerio	no, wait, what does it upgrade?	23:30
kerio	will stuff be newer?	23:31
MohammadAG	which I'm working on atm, I just need the EU mp-fremantle-203-pr package	23:31
MohammadAG	uh, I thought you weren't a noob	23:31
MohammadAG	need to rsync list of channels bah	23:31
jacktheripper	oh so I would better remove the repo until you're done with it ?	23:31
MohammadAG	If I was done with it you'd see an announce thread...	23:32
jacktheripper	okay then. Sorry for all the noise.	23:32
kerio	omg new modest and new hildon-* stuff SQUEEEEEEEEEE~	23:33
MohammadAG	well, since no one here cba to post the damn 203 package, I'll rip it out of the firmware package	23:33
MohammadAG	lazy arses :P	23:33
MohammadAG	or... I could drop support for EU users	23:34
MohammadAG	who cares about those anyways :P	23:34
kerio	MohammadAG: i think anyone who's not using the generic one deserves it	23:34
MohammadAG	generic support is already there, you can upgrade	23:34
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MohammadAG	16 mins to download a damn file for a 16kb package	23:35
MohammadAG	hmm	23:35
MohammadAG	kerio, before you upgrade	23:36
MohammadAG	what version of modest does PR1.2 have?	23:36
kerio	cba to check, playing transformice	23:36
MohammadAG	o_o	23:36
kerio	it's not like i use modest anyway	23:36
* MohammadAG disables repo		23:36
kerio	lol	23:36
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kerio	MohammadAG: not to be insulting, but i have no way to reflash as of now	23:38
kerio	and i like my n900 working	23:38
kerio	:3	23:38
mgedmin	MohammadAG, modest 3.2.13-3+0m5	23:38
kerio	it's not that i don't trust you or anything	23:38
MohammadAG	I don't get a word you're saying, repo disabled for now	23:38
MohammadAG	mgedmin, ty	23:38
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kerio	MohammadAG: not using your repo now, probably will do that once the usb is fixed	23:39
MohammadAG	it's disabled	23:40
MohammadAG	http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/repo	23:40
kerio	i read that as mohammadawg, not sure hwy	23:40
kerio	*why	23:40
jacktheripper	usb is fixed ? is it broken ?	23:40
kerio	my microusb port is brok	23:41
kerio	:(	23:41
jacktheripper	heh, thought it's in the software	23:41
jacktheripper	good luck with that	23:41
kerio	it's not about luck	23:41
kerio	it's about bugging the nokia care enough to get an instant replacement	23:41
kerio	:D	23:41
kerio	no downtime is the best downtime	23:41
jacktheripper	lol	23:41
kerio	getting it fixed is... meh	23:42
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kerio	the screen has minor problems, the internal battery sucks, the screen cover is all scratched, the red camera led is MIA	23:43
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kerio	it's only fair for nokia to provide me with a full replacement, right? :P	23:43
tripzero	do we know what harmattan's package management format is?	23:44
jacktheripper	of course!	23:44
mgedmin	I'm confused	23:44
kerio	tripzero: it should be dpkg	23:44
kerio	last i heard	23:44
tripzero	will still use autobuilder then?	23:44
mgedmin	if I have bzr 2.0.2-0ubuntu1maemo0, and extras-devel has bzr 2.0.2-0ubuntu1maemo0 (same version!), why does apt-get want to upgrade bzr?	23:44
* tripzero wonders how community packages will work		23:44
Jaffa	tripzero: That's what's currently being discussed on meego-*	23:45
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tripzero	hopefully, some resources will be put around the meego public obs	23:46
MohammadAG	mgedmin, probably because you installed the one you have using dpkg, instead of the repos	23:46
Jaffa	tripzero: See achipa & qgil's sub-thread on meego-community in the "Building apps which require proprietary code on the MeeGo OBS"	23:46
mgedmin	MohammadAG, you're probably right -- I tested the deb before uploading it to extras	23:47
mgedmin	I didn't know apt remembered such details	23:47
kerio	repo has priority over local	23:48
mgedmin	apt is incredibly slow on the n900	23:49
tripzero	flash is slow	23:50
mgedmin	I wonder if rpm will be an improvement in this aspect	23:50
tripzero	doubtful	23:50
kerio	apt is pretty fast here :\|	23:50
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MNZ	* confirmed apt is fast, marking as wontfix	23:51
kerio	NOTABUG	23:51
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tripzero	hehe	23:51
MNZ	/sarcasm	23:51
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GAN900	mgedmin, probably hardware more than software.	23:52
MohammadAG	<mgedmin> I wonder if rpm will be an improvement in this aspect	23:52
MohammadAG	download fedora, chroot into it, try it	23:53
MohammadAG	you'll facepalm immediately	23:53
MNZ	we should use yum	23:53
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MNZ	I like making a sandwich before my packages start installing.	23:53
MNZ	It lets you relax you know? yummmm	23:53
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tripzero	zypper ftw	23:54
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tobis87	don't remember me on this rpm stuff, i had a hell of time using rpm with yum ~8 years ago.	23:54
tripzero	i hear it's improved a bit in the last 8 years	23:55
tripzero	but speed has only improved as computers have gotten faster during that time	23:55
MNZ	I used yum sometimes last year, marking as NOTFUN	23:55
tobis87	yeah, but software improves in general. why should i try to use a tool which i did not liked some years ago. if there are valid alternatives.	23:56
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tobis87	i like arch with pacman as well as deb of corse. But arch breaks too much stuff if you update.	23:57
tobis87	I think it Frugalware with LXDE is quiete nice, seen it a week ago on Distrowatch... Might give it a try, there will also be a new release this month.	23:58
* mgedmin used red hat 5.4 a long time ago, before switching to Debian		23:58
mgedmin	I had the impression rpm was faster than apt back then	23:58
MNZ	my fav package management was slackware's....	23:58
mgedmin	because it tried to do less?	23:58
mgedmin	because it had binary databases (that kept being corrupted) instead of plain text files that take ages to load?	23:59
tobis87	MNZ: I'm too young for slackware, never used it.	23:59
MNZ	mgedmin, I'm not speaking of rpm itself, but yum....	23:59

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