IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-08-26

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tobis87New voice message on UVB-76: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76#Voice_messages http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42r3kywogT800:19
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alteregoMade some really nice progress on my GPS app :)00:20
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FIQo hai00:35
FIQhow did i turn on autorepeat?00:35
FIQ(i.e. turn off the automatic char2fn-char on hold)00:36
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jaemFIQ: There is a status applet and a home screen widget to do that.  I'm not sure what it actually does to make the change, so it may be trivial to do manually.00:39
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DocScrutinizer51hmm you did? acidentally?00:41
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DocScrutinizer51seems it's been some gconf curse00:42
FIQugh, chsh didn't let me change default shell to bash. :(00:43
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FIQLogin Shell [/bin/sh]: /bin/bash00:43
DocScrutinizer51I'd love to have a simple way to switch of that BS without googling for the magic cmdline00:43
FIQhas worked before00:43
kerioFIQ: add /bin/bash to /etc/shells00:43
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DocScrutinizer51enjoy bootloop00:44
FIQDocScrutinizer, but it has worked before? : <00:44
FIQand i've already reflashed the device today00:44
FIQi hope i don't have to do it again the coming weeks. :P00:45
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FIQuh, where did nano go00:45
* FIQ installs it again00:46
DocScrutinizer51for obvious reasons never tested it myself, but there have been multiple reports claiming the changing of user default shell away from messybox renders system messedup00:46
FIQhm00:46
keriochanging it for the user is fine here00:46
FIQi did change it before, but then i did it manually00:47
FIQ(aka "nano /etc/passwd")00:47
FIQ/etc/shells didn't exist00:48
FIQdunno the syntax used in it00:48
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DocScrutinizerwithout etc/shells the new default shell should have no effect, as aiui only shells listed in etc/shells are really allowed00:49
nox-moin00:49
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Nomawhich one works better, meego in n900 or android in n900?00:49
DocScrutinizerso that's a commonly used explanation why for some users changing login shell didn't break things00:49
DocScrutinizeryou might be interested in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools , regarding "where is nano? I reflashed today and now it's gone"00:50
FIQhmm00:51
FIQchanging it manually didn't break things. :d00:51
DocScrutinizerthe file ~root/installed-aps.sh comes in handy should I ever again face that situation00:51
DocScrutinizerwtf :d00:52
FIQWell, i don't mind00:52
FIQas i reflashed only 10 mins after use00:52
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FIQinstalled 3 apps00:52
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FIQ(new N900, my old get it's charger port breaked)00:53
FIQthe nice thing with getting a new is that now, i have double of everything. :P00:53
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DocScrutinizermhm, 3 apps in 10min, wait lemme do the math what you need to redo if you have to reflash in 5 weeks :-P00:53
FIQ2 batteries, 2 charger, etc00:53
FIQmeh00:54
FIQrootsh, notmynokia, nano00:54
andaxhandy for the situation that apt-get sticks? (i still ahve such problem...)00:54
FIQhm00:54
FIQ86400/60, times 3.500:55
FIQtimes 300:55
FIQiirc00:55
FIQbut i'm tired00:55
andaxFIQ: charger port is a fault in construction00:56
andaxIMHO00:56
FIQwell, i didn't pay anything. :D00:57
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FIQso i'm just happy about getting 2x of things00:57
andaxoh,great ;-)00:58
FIQ(anything for the reparation i mean)00:58
FIQnow i actually can use the device normally after 1.5years when the battery is unusable00:58
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andaxlucky you. my connector had some spontaneous dropouts too, after approx. 9 months of use and i handled with great care01:01
andaxbut i made a contract including 2 years warranty, so i dont mind01:02
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SpeedEvilOn UI fails.01:06
SpeedEvil'After extensive testing, a particular scenario was found which could  explain what had happened.01:06
SpeedEvilThe pilot, being of a certain height and in that aircraft at that  particular time of day and year, adjusted his seat and visor for the  glare of the low sun. To do so, he had to move a map reading light which  was on a stalk. The light fell out of its clip, and dropped down  against the seat where it somehow fouled the ejector system. Operating  the seat adjuster then fired the ejection system, and the poor guy was  shot out into the slipstream withou01:06
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nox-o_O01:08
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FIQwtf01:35
FIQhow many files are it in ,thumbnails/cropped? o_o01:35
FIQand what is that anyway01:35
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AranelI wonder why MyDocs doesnt show up on Mass Storage Mode if I insert an MMC card. (It shows partitions on MMC btw)01:35
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DocScrutinizeromg, *#-ena has more dl than coreutils-gnu01:37
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FIQi did just download coreutils. :p01:38
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keriocoreutils <£01:38
kerioer01:39
kerio<301:39
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Aranelhmm. can someone with a MMC card try and confirm this: On Mass Storage Mode, MyDocs doesn't mount/show up if an MMC card inserted. I'm thinking of filing a report if its a bug. :)01:41
DocScrutinizereh?01:42
DocScrutinizeron mass storage mode both MyDocs and card should be unmounted01:42
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kerioAranel: does that for me01:43
cehtehMMC card?01:43
kerioa µSD01:44
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cehtehthats the question .. are the MMC cards in µSD form factor or only SD cards?01:44
cehtehare there MMC exist in the wild anymore?01:44
AranelDocScrutinizer: no, i mean the desktop pc, not the device itself. MyDocs doesn't show up on PC if MMC inserted.01:45
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DocScrutinizerhere it does01:45
cehtehWindows PC?01:45
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Aranelhmm. so It's not reproducible :| Maybe it's because of NITdroid? Do you have it on your card?01:46
* nox- suspects it didnt umount probably bc some process still had something open on there?01:46
cehtehthe device exports 2 cards .. some people reported that not every computer (usb driver, hub, whatever) can handle that more than on storage device is on a single port01:46
Aranelnox-: but it works now perfectly, after I removed the card.01:47
cehtehAranel: what OS?01:47
Aranelcehteh: Ubuntu GNU/Linux01:47
cehtehmhm strange then .. what does 'lsusb' say?01:48
Aranelcehteh: It adds two new devices after plugging my device on it; sdd1 (MMC - Android), sdd2 (MMC) and sde which I can't mount.01:49
Aranelcehteh: wait a minute01:49
Aranelcehteh: inserting my card again =)01:49
cehtehreminds me that i turned this storage thing and unmounting completely off :P01:50
Aranelwut01:53
Aranelnow It mounts everything perfect.01:53
Aranelto make me shy. :|01:53
Aranel:p01:53
Aranelnow I'm starting to believe there's some magic on this device :) thanks anyway, I'll file a report if it doesn't work again.01:54
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DocScrutinizer51an open file might stop unmounting, so it can't get exported01:57
AranelDocScrutinizer: maybe umount --force can do the trick on that case?01:57
lcukFIQ, the thumbnails/cropped contains thumbnails of all detected images, the filename is derived from the md5'ed string of the path02:01
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FIQok02:01
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FIQhow big could it be02:01
lcukdepends how many images you have02:02
FIQyeah, of course02:02
lcukand potentially also from album art, I can't remember if that is also stored in the same manner02:02
FIQbut let's say i've 1k02:02
lcukwell I have 231002:03
FIQand size of the dir is?02:04
lcuk7.5MB02:04
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FIQoh, not a big deal then02:07
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luke-jrI think I'm going to regret teaching my 4 year old how to use a phone…02:12
lcukluke-jr, tablet mode02:12
luke-jr⁇?02:12
luke-jrnot the N90002:12
luke-jrjust a regular hard-phone02:12
luke-jrbut she keeps calling me02:12
lcuk:D02:13
luke-jrliterally every other minute02:13
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MNZHi guys, I just cloned the hildon-desktop repo and built a packge (after forging the package version....) and installed to my N900... now by my best guess when the next SSU rolls around nothing should go wrong  and I would be updated normally and this package will be replaced, is there anything I'm missing?02:16
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lcukmnz talk tomorrow in #maemo-ssu, the ramifications of such an action are being discussed and stuff02:17
lcukand having the input from people actively building their own branches and hacking is important :)02:17
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lcukMNZ, did you build it to want to make further modifications, or as a challenge!02:18
MNZlcuk, as I imagine it, the 'SSU' is just basic package management right? So I went with the what could possibly go wrong(TM) approach02:18
MNZno I needed to fix the annoying battery drain bug triggered by catorise decreasing the menu to one page02:19
lcukmnz, that is what we are considering at the moment02:19
lcukthe biggest potential thing is not knowing which version of community altered packages will end up in the ssu02:19
lcukMNZ, do you have a bug number and is your clone public?02:20
MNZoh no someone got to it before I could figure it out myself :D02:20
MNZit's already committed by adam02:20
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lcuk:) yes, madam is very skilled02:21
lcukin general if you are talking about fixes, try to use the bug numbers, it helps to add context - ok so you just wanted a jump on the official ssu02:21
MNZyeah, it was a pretty annoying bug :@02:22
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lcukMohammadAG51 has been doing some patching and examination of a few of the hildon libraries02:22
lcukand has setup a repository to keep the latest tip of a few community apps together02:22
lcukI believe since you are talking about something madam already patched it should be available from there for future reference02:23
MNZslightly off topic, is the community going to seize development of maemo or what is going to happen?02:23
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lcukMNZ, no - maemo as a whole is a large complete operating system02:24
lcukthe hildon stuff being examined at the moment is only a small fragment of that02:24
lcukbut its also the most beneficial from OSS perspective - because as you have seen, its open :)02:25
MNZyeah, so that commit msg on the lines of 'you are free, go forth and fork' is only specific to hildon or what? What I mean is, is nokia still going to be involved with maemo?02:26
lcukmnz, IDK02:27
lcukbut since pretty much everywhere in the source are @nokia.com addresses of passionate linux supporters02:27
MNZmeh, they should make some public announcement explaining themselves02:27
lcukmaybe theres no announce yet02:28
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lcukincidentally, debian addresses pop up a lot as do igalia and lanedo and imendio and a tonne of others :P02:29
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lcuk(I have occupied myself browsing the package maintainers lists recently :))02:30
MNZwell, what I gather is the community is pretty strong :D always a good thing02:31
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* lcuk nods02:31
lcuktheres lots of support and enthusiasm to follow up on this02:31
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lcukit also flows nicely into meego since there are some interested parties there trying to get the hildon libs working on the handset image02:32
MNZI still don't like meego for some reason :@ I guess it's just my debian bias :/02:33
lcukwell, I like the look of some of the apps, I think they have potential02:34
lcukbut I would like to see them with debian packages and available here ;)02:34
lcukcommunity could then help to make them into the world beaters they should be02:35
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* raster eyes Qt in Meego suspiciously02:37
lcukisn't that known as rasterizing?02:38
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rasterhahahahha02:39
rasternah02:39
rasterthats the bit when i fix Qt02:39
raster:)02:39
raster"fix"02:39
raster:)02:40
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MNZlcuk, when's this talk tomorrow?02:43
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lcukmnz, just more daytimey, i meant more thats when most folks are active02:44
lcukits midnightish now02:44
MNZit's midnightish depending on where you are :D02:44
MNZ(though it IS midnightish where I am)02:45
asjis midday here02:46
FIQ1:47 here02:47
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FIQFormatting /dev/mmcblk1p1 (vfat) ...FAILURE. Bailing out.02:49
FIQhmm...02:49
FIQcould this have  to do02:49
FIQwith the fact that it's formatted as ext3 atm?02:50
FIQ(trying to install NITDroid02:50
FIQ)02:50
FIQtrying to do it manually results in this:02:51
FIQmkfs.vfat: Too few blocks for viable file system02:52
vltRyou made sth wrong with sfdisk imo02:53
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FIQehm02:54
FIQi've never used sfdisk on my memcard02:54
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FIQhm02:55
FIQuh02:55
FIQwhy this02:55
FIQ/dev/mmcblk1             14.8G      8.0k     14.8G   0% /media/mmc102:55
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FIQisn't it supposed to end with "p1"?02:55
FIQas in partition 102:55
oneilhello, i followed the link from the wiki. hoping to get some help02:56
vltRmmcblk1 is ur memcard which is divided to p1 and p202:56
vltRpartition1 , partition202:56
FIQyeah02:57
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FIQbut, why is the whole memcard mounted instead of a partition of it?02:57
lcukoneil, hi, just ask your question as clearly as possible and we will happily continue to ignore you (unless someone knows the answer \o)02:58
oneili am trying to make my google talk work on my n900 but its having a GV data code 20 erro. any pointer on how to solve this considering an in the uk02:59
FIQI guess i screwed smth up, but how to remove the partition on "mmcblk1" (so i can do a partition at "mmcblk1p1")?02:59
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* FIQ man mkfs.vfat03:00
lcuknot very clear, where are you seeing the error and give the specific error message, not shortened or abreviated03:00
FIQoh, no man atm...03:00
lcukoneil, ^03:00
MNZFIQ, did you use mkvfat on /dev/mmcblk1 ?03:00
FIQDon't remember, could happen03:00
MNZdon't worry about the filesystem, just use sfdisk again (properly this time) and next time run mkvfat on the p1/p2 devices03:00
andaxSpeedEvil: still flying? xD xD xD03:03
FIQbut i've never used sfdisk before. :) - so how to just wipe out the partition?03:03
MNZFIQ, if by wipe out you mean remove the current filesystem you have on it... then you don't really need to wipe it out, just repartition the device and create new filesystems. I haven't used sfdisk myself before, I'm used to fdisk, but you should get it on your desktop and read the man page03:04
oneilthere was a probl!m with GV('data':('code':20) 'ok' false)03:05
lcukoneil, which application window or log did you read that from03:06
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SkyscraperN900mohammadag51 whats up with ubuntu??03:06
MNZFIQ, http://linux.die.net/man/8/sfdisk03:06
oneildail central03:07
FIQty03:07
lcukoneil, did it used to work?03:07
oneilno i just installed it. but the google talk works on my pc03:08
lcukthen look on the dialcentral bug trcker03:08
MNZoneil, have you tried the built in google talk integration in maemo? Maybe that'll do?03:09
SkyscraperN900hm... have to sleep. good night!03:10
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oneili tried the one that comes with the phone but it keeps on dailing with no tone03:10
andaxgood night SkyscraperN90003:11
oneilbut my skpe works fine03:12
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PolarFoxWow... I like the old kinetik scroll :)03:21
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oneilmzn, i got the erro message from dail central03:31
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MNZoneil, sorry can't help. I'd say give the built in one another shot and see what happens. Look for the dial central's bug tracker and see if this is already reported03:35
oneilthanks. where do i find the bug tracker? on maemo?03:39
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GAN900http://bugs.maemo.org03:46
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lainwir3dhi03:51
lainwir3di'm trying to import a client pkcs12 certificate for website authentification03:52
lainwir3dhowever it doesn't seems to work03:52
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lainwir3dwhen i try to import it it ask for a "purpose" and i get these choice: server / wifi / email03:53
lainwir3dwhatever i choose even if i check all of those it doesn't seems to work in maemo's browser03:54
lainwir3doh... N900 with PR1.2 btw03:54
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lainwir3ddoes someone have an idea please? i think that my certificate has something wrong with it because i read somewhere that there should be another option03:55
lainwir3dlike "web browsing" or similar03:55
GAN900I'd tend to blame Maemo03:58
GAN900but I don't deal with certs, so I have no suggestions.03:59
lainwir3dwell thanks anyway for answering :)04:01
lainwir3doh04:02
lainwir3dfound something in apt04:02
lainwir3d"microb-engine-common-ext - Cert and password manager for microb"04:02
lainwir3di'm going to try that04:02
oneilx04:02
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lainwir3dok i got it to work by cheating04:12
lainwir3dif someone is interested:04:13
lainwir3di typed "chrome://pippki/content/certManager.xul" into microb address bar and "firefox" certificate manager appeared. From there i just added my certificate04:13
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lainwir3dwell then04:16
lainwir3dgood night04:16
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: The TAS5631 is a high-performance PWM input class-D amplifier with integrated closed-loop feedback technology (known as PurePath HD technology) with the ability to drive up to 300 W (1) stereo into 4- to 8- speakers from a single 50-V suppl04:30
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pupnikhttp://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tas5631.html04:31
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pupnikoh i found a direct-digital amplifier NAD M2 ($5999)04:46
Dhraakellianrecommendation for a mail client with threading?04:47
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pupnikmutt supports threading Dhraakellian04:56
pupnikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients  half way down you can see which support threads :)04:57
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DocScrutinizer51heh, that cert manager URL of lainwir3d is amazing. Quite worth the bookmark, even with google icon :-P05:04
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pytherHi05:37
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pytherIs there any place to save busybox aliases?05:37
pupnikyou mean shell aliases like ll='ls -al'05:39
pupnik?05:39
pupnik@ pyther05:40
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pytherpupnik: yes05:40
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DocScrutinizerI usually have them in a special file ~/aliases and this file gets sourced in one of the init scripts05:41
pytherDocScrutinizer: ok that is good to know I found out that I can put them in .profile to05:44
DocScrutinizerSURE YOU CAN, BUT IT'S AWKWARD05:44
DocScrutinizeroops sorry capslock05:44
DocScrutinizerI have `alias -p >$HOME/bash-aliases` in my .bash_logout05:47
pytherhow is it awkward?05:48
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DocScrutinizerand in .bashrc I have `. $HOME/bash-aliases`05:48
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* luke-jr notes Maemo doesn't use bash05:49
DocScrutinizerwhat sed + awk cruft would you suggest do implemet same thing for holding alies defs in .bashrc directly?05:49
pupnikinteresting, never thought of adding aliases automatically05:49
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: maemo doesn't use aliases either05:50
luke-jrpupnik: me either, if I add them, I always go straight for the bash_profile05:50
DocScrutinizerbut *I* do :-P05:50
pytherDocScrutinizer: busybox support aliases05:50
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I think pyther was asking about Maemo05:50
pytherI was05:50
DocScrutinizerso what?05:50
DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-42-11:~# which bash05:51
DocScrutinizer/bin/bash05:51
luke-jrwhich one05:51
pytherand alias ihr="/home/user/iheartradioN900.py' works if and stays if I toss it into .profile05:51
luke-jrone: not found05:51
DocScrutinizer~nuke messybox05:51
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... B☢☢M!05:51
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pytherWell I better go to bed, I got class in the morning my iheartradio script works05:52
DocScrutinizerpyther: happy messing around with nano for each silly alias05:52
pytherDocScrutinizer: I only need a few right now05:52
DocScrutinizeralias as=alias05:53
pytherhaha05:53
DocScrutinizeras lp=lart pyther05:53
pytherlater all05:53
DocScrutinizeroops that's not bash05:53
kerio~lart | nuke DocScrutinizer05:56
* infobot whips | nuke DocScrutinizer with a wet and grimy noodle just because05:56
kerioinfobot: learn to piping commands05:56
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ghostnik11hi, I am not a nokia or maemo user but i am interested in becoming one but before i can i must find out if nokia/maemo phones can do my call setup06:41
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ghostnik11so wanted to know if there is a callback mechanism application for nokia/maemo phones using google voic06:42
ghostnik11google voice06:42
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SpeedEvilAs far as I'm aware nobodies done anything google voice related yet.06:51
SpeedEvilNot looked at it - as voice hasn't worked in the UK06:52
ghostnik11speedevil: thanks for the comment, and i am sorry i thought that n900 users where using dialcentral app to make callback calls with google voice06:53
ghostnik11the thing is i use google voice and a sip client on my android powered phone to make free calls over data eliminating my cellular min usage and now that i have the set up configured perfectly on a htc magic low end android smart phone i wanted to get a power nokia smart phone as it would more than likely give me better call quality through data connection on mobile cellular network06:55
DocScrutinizer51aiui google voice has been gizmo(5) has been gizmo project has always been SIP06:56
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DocScrutinizer51and - if this might not have been clear - maemo has a working quite nicely integrated SIP client06:58
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: I found out about how to do it through gizmo to late as gizmo doesn't let new users register as I think google saw what people were doing and getting free calls without using cellular minutes and had to stop that process06:58
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DocScrutinizer51doesn't sound like a reasonable story to me06:59
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: i figured out a way without sipsocerey and gizmo and it works, its just that i need a more powerful phone06:59
Muellighostnik11: how did you set up your callback thing?06:59
ghostnik11muelli: well on the android market someone a developer created google voice callback application that simulates you actually going into google voice web page and picking the contact number and pressing call07:00
DocScrutinizer51yuck07:01
Muellihm. okay. I don't know how Google voice actually works.07:01
ghostnik11okay07:01
ghostnik11can i talk just like this without putting peoples names in front07:02
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ghostnik11or do i have to do that as a rule of the channel07:02
MohammadAGmorning #maemo07:02
MuelliBut how is that a callback mechanism? I mean, is that any different from how you'd regularly use Google Voice?07:02
DocScrutinizer51depends07:02
MuelliAnd writing a thing that scrapes a google page should be relatively easy. Hence, shuold be quickly done for Maemo.07:03
ghostnik11muelli well what it does is it interupts your outgoing call and calls your google voice number and then you hear your cell phone ring and when you accept, it then lets the outgoing call continue07:03
* DocScrutinizer51 wonders what for you'd need such incredible crap07:03
Muellihm ghostnik11. So you use your dialing/phonebook UI normally? How would be able to not use Google Voice then?07:05
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ghostnik11yeah i use my dial/phonebook ui normally07:05
shinkamuilol07:05
shinkamuiI haven't been around for a while07:06
DocScrutinizer51well, I do same when doing SIP calls fron N90007:06
shinkamuiand this is what I come back to07:06
shinkamui:-D07:06
shinkamuinonsense07:06
ghostnik11and what happens with this google voice callback app is that you tell it to take over as your main dialer so it basically overides the built in dialer so07:06
DocScrutinizer51just I don't need any special google voice BS for that07:06
shinkamuisounds like you found the worst possible way to use google voice and are trying to shoehorn it onto a community that doesn't like bullshit07:07
shinkamuibullstuffs07:07
asjcan the n900 dial out via google talk now?07:07
ghostnik11when i make a call you see the google voice callback app come up and say logging in to google voice, then registering call back then it rings my phone07:07
* shinkamui fliches07:07
DocScrutinizer51ghostnik11: N900 dialer HASmsip!!! no fsckng need to override07:07
ghostnik11shinkamui: i am not trying to blow any bullshit, and i would never do that to disrespect your channel, thats not what i am about, i am about trying to learn a new way to do this on a nokia phone when i can get my hands on one and leave my android phone07:08
shinkamuilol!07:09
shinkamuiplease proceed.  Forgive my rudeness07:09
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: excuse my stupidness as you are probably a super developer and i am not, i am just an end user who tries to apply developers work to make my life easier but what is n900 dialer hasmsip07:10
DocScrutinizer51is ia 'HAS sip' with anm erratic m in place of ' '07:11
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SpeedEvilSIP is integrated into the normal dialer.07:11
SpeedEvilYou can place a call via SIP as easily as a normal call07:11
ghostnik11speedevil: but my sip address i only have it as an incoming call setup and don't have it as a outgoing call setup07:12
ghostnik11my sip account is with iptel.org07:12
MohammadAGneed PR1.2 firmware packages for 002 and 003 firmware variants07:12
pigeondoes anyone know or can find out the install size of instinctive (the app)?07:12
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pigeoni keep getting not enough space when installing it...07:13
doc|homeghostnik11: then you need to set up with another provider. I use diamondcard.us07:13
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: go dl them then07:14
ghostnik11doc|home: well i don't use another provider because I can cut that cost by making the outgoing call with google voice as it is free to call the states and Canada07:14
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, they're on the SSU repo and each country variant has a different one07:14
MohammadAGapparently you can't add one for the other07:15
doc|homeghostnik11: then what's the problem?07:15
MohammadAGmp-fremantle-002-pr07:15
MohammadAGmp-fremantle-003-pr07:15
MohammadAGgot -generic-pr07:15
ghostnik11doc|home: the problem is i need an app that will do the process for me, instead of me going into a web browser every time and selecting a contact and pressing call on the google voice web page07:16
doc|homeghostnik11: looks like you found a new project07:16
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ghostnik11doc|home: basically i am asking for something similar to a dial plan in a sense but is intergrated with my contacts from the phone07:17
DocScrutinizer51excuse me... (runs for bathroom, puking)07:17
pigeonsorry, should be "instinctiv "07:18
doc|homeghostnik11: if none exists then it looks like you've found a new itch to scratch for yourself.07:18
DocScrutinizer51there's roundabout 6 dozen SIP providers allowing free calls to US07:19
DocScrutinizer51and, as mentioned err elaborated above, google voice was gizmo and so should also be usual SIP07:21
ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: i know i have tested some of them like voipdiscount and others but the thing with those is that07:21
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ghostnik11docscrutinizer51: in the fine small print they say you get this much free calling per month based on an ip address but don't tell you that there are others with the same ip address so you end up going over your actually minutes allowed even if you personally didn't07:22
doc|homethe enter key: not substitution for commas07:22
doc|homeghostnik11: then those providers are idiots07:23
doc|homelook for others07:23
DocScrutinizer51never seen such silly fineprint. Maybe you just should reread07:24
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MohammadAGneed - packages - now07:24
MohammadAGcommunity ssu depends on it :P07:24
SpeedEvilghostnik11: http://maemo.org/packages/view/dialcentral/ ?07:26
ghostnik11speedevil: yeah i was looking at that and was interested in it but wanted to know how it worked and as i don't own an n900 wanted to ask if someone here has used dialcentral and how was it07:27
SpeedEvilDon't have google voic07:28
SpeedEvile07:28
ghostnik11speedevil: for example if dialcentral has the google voice callback feature then it will work perfectly and i wanted to know if it only worked with gizmo users07:28
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pigeonhmm...07:28
pigeonapt-worker: free space (/home/) = 110739456, apt-worker: You don't have enough free space in /home, required disk space: 3709960, result code = 707:29
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DocScrutinizer51~trout apt07:34
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SpeedEvilghostnik11: check for a tmo thread on dialcentral or a homepage07:35
* infobot slaps apt around a bit with a large trout!07:35
pigeonwow, some lag there...07:35
SpeedEvilhttp://gc-dialer.garage.maemo.org/07:35
SpeedEvilor just read that07:35
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ghostnik11speedevil: read it and it doesn't say anything about a callback mechanism included, for example i am google voice app on my android phone and when you place a call through it, it usually connects you to a google number or a number that routes the call through your cellular minutes this way the carriers still earn there money,07:39
DocScrutinizerfree minutes based on IP addr - tzz. I'd guess that applies for anonymous usage, as it really doesn't make *any* sense if you register with the SIP provider and properly authenticate07:40
ghostnik11docscrutinizer: have you heard about the betamax user and the FUP policy07:40
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ghostnik11users07:40
DocScrutinizerno07:41
ghostnik11can i put a link to the page about it07:41
DocScrutinizerand I bet I'm not interested in it07:41
ghostnik11okay cool07:41
pigeoni cleaned up about 300MB off /home and it's finally installing... :\07:41
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DocScrutinizerpigeon: you really should kick out that greedy game eating up >1GB of your /opt07:43
pigeonwell, that's close to what i did... i moved away openarena's data ;)07:43
TermanaN900nom nom nom - data!07:43
DocScrutinizerpigeon: probably send it back to maintainer/devel, together with an angry hornet hive07:44
TermanaN900DocScrutinizer isn't from the ghetto. He ain't no (game) player07:44
SpeedEvilWell - mail the autrhor. Or find some thread of discussion on it , or ...07:44
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TermanaN900or do nothing07:45
DocScrutinizerpigeon: I toldya bout `du /opt|sort -n`, didn't I?07:45
pigeonwell i did du --max-depth=1 -x /home/opt | sort -n07:46
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pigeonapart from /opt/maemo, the biggest i've got is icedtea6 and sygic07:47
ghostnik11speedevil: i am thinking of just asking a question to the users who use this app in the maemo forums07:47
pigeonstill waiting for australia sygic map :(07:48
pigeonglad that i'm not the only one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5906607:49
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DocScrutinizer51hmm, sygic being greedy? I guess they didn't read about 'installing in opt and mydocs' in maemo wiki08:02
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DocScrutinizer51I'd call that a bug, and pester them to deliver decent software for my money08:02
Stskeepsmydocs makes sense considering their data load08:02
Stskeepswouldn't fit in /opt08:03
Stskeepsand their installation method of maps08:03
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johnxmorning humans08:05
Stskeepsmorn08:05
johnxI looked at contextkit08:06
johnxIt looks like everything I had in mind, except more08:06
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johnxI still like the idea of hooking up something like dbus-scripts to it, for apps that don't use it natively, but do except commands over dbus08:09
Stskeeps:nod:08:09
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johnxwhich means I should get some distro running that includes contextkit :)08:09
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DocScrutinizer51pigeon: opt/maemo was large? that's something that needs further investigations08:14
pigeonDocScrutinizer51: well i think a lot of packages have things installed there.08:15
DocScrutinizer51yep08:15
pigeonthat's why it's quite big.08:15
pigeonmy whole /opt/maemo is 375MB08:15
DocScrutinizer51mine 7008:16
pigeonwormux-data is 107MB08:16
pwnguinhrm. now that google talk is basically live for everyone in canada / us, has anyone figured out if there's SIP settings one can use for it?08:16
johnxyup. was just about to say, tends to get used by games rather heavily08:17
pigeona lot of them for me are installed, tried, and left it there, never really played them again :)08:17
pigeonsometimes it's handy when i need to show people.08:18
DocScrutinizer51pigeon: for such purpose I usually fire up HAM and install something that will impress them. The 5min to load I use to explain to them it's just because there's such a lot of nice apps and it needs to download the descriptions of all of them now :-P08:22
pigeon;)08:23
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DocScrutinizer51if the people to entertain are of the tech savy kind, you also can explain about apt-get is lightning fast, compared to HAM, But you want to show the nice GUI of App Manager, incl the pkg descriptions :-)08:28
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slonopotamus_slonopotamus: err...08:41
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slonopotamus!08:41
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DocScrutinizer51mhm08:47
DocScrutinizer51slonopotamus: do you need IRC to talk to yourself? :-P08:47
ruskielol08:49
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, and endles rivers of coffee08:52
slonopotamuss#les#less#08:53
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ebzzryOn Fremantle, is there a way to make the system notify me of 'Conversations' messages, even if the window to which the message comes from is in focus?09:38
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johnxyou mean like flash the LED?09:43
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ebzzryjohnx: Sorry for being ambiguous. I'm looking for audible notifications.10:03
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pigeoni thought it already has that10:05
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ebzzrypigeon: It doesn't ding when the window is in focus.10:07
pigeoniirc, it still makes a sound, but different sound.10:08
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pigeonlike a knock knock sound, much softer one.10:08
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pigeoni could be wrong though... and i couldn't test it right now.10:11
johnxah, you're right10:12
pigeonso i was wrong then?10:12
johnxI think you're right10:12
johnxbut I can't find the setting10:12
johnxmaybe it gets set as part of the that 'system sounds' 'level 1' thing?10:13
pigeonprobably, i always find that mysterious...10:13
pigeonit's like an "everything else" sound setting :)10:13
mece_im's knock, emails ding and messages dingding.10:14
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ebzzrylevel 1 and level 2 is too narrow to be defined as a decent setting for things like that10:16
johnxI don't even know WTF level 1 means?10:17
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pigeoni believe it's volume level.10:17
johnxLike do I get the sounds from the first level of super mario bros? or ... ?10:17
johnxaaah,10:17
johnxbut doesn't it have a volume slider next to it?10:18
* johnx checks10:18
pigeonno10:18
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ebzzryno10:20
ebzzrySometimes I miss messages because of this behavior.10:21
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crashanddieI just had the CEO come in my office and apologise that they won't be able to purchase an iMac for me10:35
jacekowskioO10:35
Stskeepscos they're firing you?10:35
Stskeeps:P10:35
kerioomg10:35
keriono iMac... :(10:35
kerioask for a macbook10:36
crashanddieI never asked for one -- they just assumed I wanted Apple hardware because I'm temporarily using my macbookpro considering I don't have anything from the company yet10:36
jacekowskii already have to many computers10:36
SpeedEvilThey have a corporate deal with Gillette?10:36
crashanddieI'm starting to love this gig :D10:37
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crashanddiehot or not? http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/cars-amp-girls-blonde-flanks-lamborghini-lp560-tt/cg_05.jpg10:37
keriocrashanddie: you're using your own laptop10:37
kerioyou're lucky10:37
crashanddieI guess?10:38
crashanddieI'm just lacking a nice big screen and a couple gigabytes of RAM, but yeah, otherwise I'm lucky10:38
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jacekowskii wouldn't ever use my own tools for work10:38
johnxcrashanddie, lambos are kinda meh to me10:38
crashanddiejohnx: you're more the kind of guy who'll buy the bugatti watch for $260k?10:39
kerioi'd hit that10:39
johnxkerio, better have good insurance ...10:39
Circassianbetter to have10:39
keriono, the blonde chick10:39
johnxcrashanddie, I wouldn't mind a pagani10:40
keriowhy are you focusing on the car, you faggots10:40
crashanddiejohnx: or the Lexus LFA?10:40
crashanddie(don't mind the name)10:40
johnxcrashanddie, GT-R over the Lexus, even though the Lexus is darn neat10:40
crashanddieeh? GT-R over the LFA?10:40
crashanddieHAVE YOU SEEN THE FIGHTER JET COCKPIT???10:40
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jacekowskiif i would buy car to drive around i would go for subaru impreza10:41
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mece_the lfa is wicked.10:41
johnxjacekowski, as in the WRX or STi or just an impreza? :P10:41
jacekowskiif i would buy car to show off it would be either ferrari or maybe lamborghini10:41
jacekowskijohnx: as in WRX10:41
jacekowskibut juz impreza would do10:41
crashanddiejohnx: http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/parmigiani_fleurier_bugatti_super_sport/parmigiani_fleurier_bugatti_super_sport_001.jpg10:41
johnxjacekowski, ah, cause if you want a 96 impreza, I've got one to sell you :)10:42
crashanddiejohnx: going for just $25900010:42
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johnxcrashanddie, didn't top gear test both the LFA and GT-R?10:42
crashanddiejacekowski: I'd recommend the STi10:42
jacekowskijohnx: i wouldn't be able to afford to insure it yet10:42
jacekowskijohnx: i'm 21 and no no claims discount10:43
jacekowskijohnx: and already done one claim of my insurance10:43
johnxjacekowski, bummer. I pay my parents and stay on their plan. ssssshhhh :)10:43
jacekowskijohnx: which was clearly my fault10:43
crashanddiejohnx: yeah, last season Top Gear played with the LFA, and a couple seasons ago they did a challenge across Japan in the GT-R10:43
jacekowskii pay £1200/year for small 1.3l10:43
crashanddiejacekowski: lmao10:43
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crashanddieI pay 200eur for my motorbike :D10:44
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crashanddiewhich is only a 0.1L engine10:44
crashanddiebut still10:44
johnxcrashanddie, but they had power lap times for both :) GT-R had 1:19 to the LFA's 1:22 ... but the LFA lap was wet so it doesn't mean anything10:44
jacekowskiwell, 0.6l motorbike would cost me about 15k to insure10:44
jacekowskiper year10:44
crashanddiebecause you don't have the licence?10:44
crashanddie:P10:44
jacekowskii do10:44
crashanddieyou have your full bike licence?10:45
jacekowskino10:45
jacekowskiehh10:45
jacekowskii have just car license10:45
jacekowskibut i when i checked prices i said that i have license10:45
crashanddieah yes, but they check records mate10:45
jacekowskino10:45
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crashanddieerhm, yeah, they do.10:45
crashanddiewell, depends on the company10:45
jacekowskiso why they ask if i have license10:45
jacekowskiand stuff10:46
jacekowskilike how many accidents i had10:46
jacekowskibesides, they can't check my records10:46
crashanddiedid you give your car licence date and the supposed bike licence date?10:46
jacekowskithey don't have access to dvla database10:46
crashanddiethen they do a cross reference on that, and if they can't find anything, they put max prices, because they assume you've never been insured10:46
johnxfor 1.3 or 1.4L? a Fiat 500 Abarth EsseEsse might not be bad ...10:47
jacekowskithey can't check that here10:47
crashanddiejohnx: it also depends on the kind of car, not really the displacement10:47
johnxbummer10:47
crashanddiejacekowski: that's how gocompare does it10:47
crashanddiejacekowski: and most probably confused.com as well10:47
johnxyou know that's one of the things that fueled the power/displacement engineering in Japan?10:47
johnxIt really was based on displacement (for a while at least. not sure about now)10:48
jacekowskicomparethemeerkat.com10:48
crashanddiejohnx: basically, in mainland europe, the main factor is the "fiscal power"10:48
crashanddiejohnx: which is an arbitrary number decided by the government, depending on size, weight, power, acceleration and safety10:48
jacekowskiwhat's funny10:48
kerioyour man card is automatically revoked btw10:48
jacekowskiis that it would cost me only £600 to insure lamborghini10:48
johnxcrashanddie, what's awesome here, is that the individual insurance companies just pull a # out of their butts10:49
jacekowski3rd party only10:49
crashanddiejohnx: yeah, it's way too regulated here... Companies interchange records, bla bla bla... But in the US, the insurrance fluctuates based the tickets you get, no?10:50
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crashanddiebased on**10:50
johnxcrashanddie, ohohohoh. nonono. It's based on gender and grades, and whatever statistics they want10:51
jacekowskiwell, points on license change costs here as well10:51
crashanddieoh, maybe I'm confused with the UK then10:51
jacekowskiand it would even make it cheaper for me if i would be married10:51
crashanddiethe whole points system is ridiculous though10:51
jacekowskior own a house10:51
johnxno regulation means that they pull *no* punches when figuring out exactly how likely you are to make a claim10:52
crashanddiejacekowski: well yeah, because statistically speaking, you're less likely to drive as an idiot when you've engaged "for life", rather than dry humping a girl in sussex10:52
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jacekowskiwhy sussex?10:52
jacekowskithat's really interesting10:52
crashanddiewell, you're polish, you either live in sussex or Bromley/Lewisham10:53
jacekowskiyou missed10:54
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crashanddieouch, only 50 megs available RAM on your server?10:56
crashanddieand swap maxed out aswell10:56
crashanddie!10:56
Circassian?!10:56
jacekowskiwell, take a look clouser10:56
jacekowskicloser*10:56
jacekowski29% used10:56
jacekowskirest are buffers and caches10:56
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crashanddieyour swap shouldn't be showing as 100% used though10:57
crashanddieunless the script is misinterpreting things?10:57
jacekowskiit is 100%10:57
jacekowskii have leaking java app runing10:57
jacekowskiand it's just getting swapped out10:58
jacekowskiSwap:         1998       1995          310:58
ShadowJK3 megs free, that's still ok :)10:58
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ShadowJKit's at 0 you worry10:58
ShadowJKoom is nasty10:59
johnxI've had really great experiences with it :)10:59
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akiniemihow do you open a new window in a stack with the right orientation?11:00
akiniemiI'm using Qt, and it seems windows are always forst in landscape mode...11:01
akiniemis/forst/first11:01
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ZuccaI don't know much about apt package manager, but I'd like to know how to see a list of files a package has installed. I guess it can be done in cli?11:03
steinexZucca: dpkg -L package11:04
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Zuccasteinex: Thanks. :)11:04
jacekowskisteinex: it's only swap11:04
jacekowskiShadowJK: *11:04
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jacekowski             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached11:05
jacekowskiMem:          7988       7937         51          0         53       551511:05
jacekowski-/+ buffers/cache:       2368       562011:05
jacekowskiSwap:         1998       1996          211:05
jacekowskicrashanddie: i'm in colchester11:05
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Funnyfacegrrr fucking n900 froze during the night and now I've overslept11:07
threshI use excuses like that too for my boss11:07
nid0i learned the hard way years ago to always use 2 alarms :)11:07
jacekowskiwhy you disabled watchdog?11:07
jacekowskinid0: i use 6 alarms and it's sometimes not enough11:08
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Funnyfaceit was the alarm app itself, not the N900 actually11:08
Funnyfacethe stop/snooze (is that what it's called in english) stuff was stuck on the screen and I had to kill it11:08
johnxFunnyface, I see that sometimes too11:09
nid0i sometimes have the button take 2-3 seconds to go away after stopping the alarm, but never had it freeze/fail on me11:10
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Funnyfacethe funny thing is that I have used 2 alarm clocks every day for the last 2 weeks when I had to use an alarm, but today when I only used one was the only time it didn't work11:11
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johnxit can tell. it knows.11:14
koala_manFunnyface: miss anything important?11:15
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yannuxI've submitted my package to extra devels repository, but I dont understand the building error. someone can help me ?11:17
yannuxhttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/vlc-remote_0.5-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt11:17
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X-Fadeyannux: Do you have build-depends for libqt4-dev ?11:18
yannuxah shxxxttttt x) forgot it11:18
yannuxshame on me11:18
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yannuxX-Fade: is there a  way to have complete it automaticly ?11:23
X-Fadeyannux: Complete what?11:24
yannuxBuild-Depends:11:24
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X-Fadeyannux: Complete -> Generate?11:24
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yannuxyes11:25
StskeepsX-Fade: saw my post re closed blobs on community obs?11:25
X-Fadeyannux: dpkg-checkbuilddeps11:25
X-FadeStskeeps: No, haven't gotten to the lists yet.11:25
Stskeepsk11:25
yannuxok thanks X-Fade11:26
StskeepsX-Fade: wrote some technical opinion on how to deal with quim's proposal of only building for meego api (but on m5,m6)11:26
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yannuxX-Fade:  same error :s11:30
X-FadeStskeeps: I think the problem with this is that you have to rely on Qt-mobility to provide all platform/hardware specific features.11:31
StskeepsX-Fade: :nod:11:31
X-FadeStskeeps: So only high level stuff will be available.11:31
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StskeepsX-Fade: otoh qt mobility is getting developed for m511:31
X-FadeStskeeps: Sure, but if you want to use the light sensor for example, you are out of luck.11:32
Funnyfacekoala_man: yes I did11:32
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Funnyfacemy visit to the doctor + 4-5 classes worth of school11:32
X-FadeWell, pure kernel things can be allowed too.11:32
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yannuxX-Fade: I've replace debian/rules by those here : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39962   and now it's compiling on my scratchbox armel target , before  he wasn't11:35
yannuxX-Fade: files uploaded to extra devels, must be build from armel or x86 target on the scratchbox ?11:36
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X-Fadeyannux: Doesn't matter as you build a souce package.11:41
yannuxok11:42
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yannuxX-Fade:  thanks, build is OK now :D11:50
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X-Fadeyannux: Good ;)11:52
yannuxX-Fade:  once it's build, it's available on the n900 application manager, (with extra-devels of course)11:52
yannux?*11:52
X-Fadeyannux: Takes a while for it to be imported/mirrored.11:53
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yannuxsome hours ? days?11:53
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Khertan_Morning everyone !11:54
X-Fadeyannux: up to an hour, most of the time less than 30 minutes.11:54
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Khertan_~seen achipa11:54
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infobotachipa <~bear@Maemo/community/council/achipa> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6d 17h 23m 10s ago, saying: 'Jaffa: hm, right, though if you go that route you can say it's already that way - I don't think there are other clients leaving python urllib agent strings :)'.11:55
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Khertan_X-Fade: hi12:02
Khertan_X-Fade: someone say me ... ask to X-Fade ... this is guy ...12:02
StskeepsKhertan_: out of curiousity, did you switch to qt yet?12:02
Khertan_X-Fade: got a question about maemo news ... the content of the news didn't appear in the planet : http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:a5799af9ac17abc99d28d8047c32e427/12:03
Khertan_X-Fade: does there is a reason ? (i use the wrong format for example)12:03
Khertan_Stskeeps: yep :)12:03
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Khertan_Stskeeps: khteditor and khweeteur are in pyqt12:03
Stskeepscool12:03
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bilboed-pimoin all. Anybody knows if there are lensfun/ufraw lens profiles for FCamera/n900 ?12:04
Khertan_and khteditor is far away faster than pygtkeditor to highlight python code12:04
X-FadeKhertan_: That is just because it is more than 1000 words.12:04
Khertan_X-Fade: ah ... ok :) thx ... i ll try to do shorter next time ... as i didn't like when we just see the link in the planet :)12:04
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X-FadeKhertan_: Yeah, the article shortening algo can be smarter. Patches welcome ;)12:05
Khertan_X-Fade: is it python code ?12:06
X-FadeKhertan_: no, php12:06
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Khertan_hum ... i'm not a specialist :)12:07
Khertan_anyway where is source ... i could try :)12:07
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lmaX-Fade: Hi, I'm available for testing for the next hour or so if you need me12:07
X-Fadelma: Did you upload the final part?12:07
lmaYup, but there's something wrong with the PGP signature, I just emailed you as well12:08
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Stskeepswhen was it approximately, time wise, that quim announced no more gtk?12:10
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Stskeepsah, over a year ago12:10
X-Fadelma: Ok, it didn't sign it automatically.12:11
Khertan_Stskeeps: at least ... qt is really useable since a few time (pr1.2)12:11
X-Fadelma: Let me check why.12:11
lmaX-Fade: ah, true, I just noticed that Release.gpg is a couple of days old12:11
StskeepsKhertan_: did you have any luck with pyside/pyqt on meego yet?12:12
mece_heh. What douchebaggery is this? http://i.imgur.com/opkj8.jpg12:12
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Khertan_Stskeeps: nope :) it s not available yet ... and wasn't able to build it ...12:12
StskeepsKhertan_: ok12:12
Khertan_but once it s available i ll try it ...12:13
Khertan_:)12:13
Khertan_my sd card is ready with meego on it :)12:13
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Khertan_but i khteditor and khweeteur will need some modification to work with pyside ... as it s not really api compatible with pyqt :)12:14
X-Fadelma: Ok, found the issue.12:14
Khertan_as pyside isn't ready ... there is still some strange behavior12:14
X-Fadelma: Do you have another package you can upload by chance?12:14
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lmaNo, that's it for now12:15
lmaWould re-uploading an existing one work?12:15
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X-Fadelma: Nah, I'll just run the sign part myself for now. Should be ok for the next run.12:16
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Khertan_re12:21
X-Fadelma: Update shows up for me now.12:22
StskeepsKhertan_: did you ask the old pymaemo people if they're doing anything for meego?12:22
Stskeepslike, for pyqt/pyside12:22
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Khertan_nope i didn't ask ... but i think the work is in progress12:23
Stskeepsk12:23
lmaX-Fade: same here, thanks!12:24
Khertan_i think i ll try this new QtMobility in khweeteur instead of playing with dbus :)12:24
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Khertan_QNETWORKSESSION seeems a really good idea ... simplify a lot many things !12:25
Khertan_but binding is for pyside and not pyqt :(12:25
Khertan_so this meens a switch to pyside12:26
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mece_well, at least pyside is getting some attention..12:28
X-Fadelma: SSU completed fine on my device.12:28
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mece_Khertan_, khteditor is awesome!12:33
Jaffadneary: ping12:34
dnearyJaffa, Pung12:34
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Jaffadneary: Nominations should be open now, have you got the list of eligible candidates and an announcement to publish?12:35
dnearyJaffa, Will do it ASAP.12:35
Jaffadneary: Thanks12:35
dnearyAssuming that karma counts are up to date...12:36
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JaffaA question for bergie and/or X-Fade, I guess12:38
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X-Fadelcuk: ping?12:47
Khertan_mece_: thks !!!12:51
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Khertan_mece_: the pylint plugin need fix :)12:52
Khertan_mece_: but it s in progress12:52
Khertan_mece_: and i need some help to implement more native hilighter for other language12:52
Khertan_as the python one is native12:53
Khertan_but the other use pygment12:53
Khertan_so other can be slow :)12:53
Khertan_mece_: and i need to add some preferences for tabulation too and a comment/uncomment support for other language12:54
Khertan_autoindent plugin is for python only12:54
Khertan_there is many things to do :)12:55
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crashanddiethere are13:04
* crashanddie waves at Khertan_ 13:04
crashanddiecomo vach?13:04
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JaffaOh, that's classy. Just got an email asking if I'd like to interviewed for Sky Radio's series "The Innovators" because of my work with Maemo. It's a great way to promote my business, apparently, so it'll only cost me $3,995 to be interviewed!13:05
crashanddielmao13:06
jaska:D13:06
crashanddie"your business"13:06
crashanddieWell, for reporters, they're sure doing a bad job13:06
jaskatheir business13:06
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crashanddieJaffa: I'd forgotten that you own maemo.com and are seriously considering conquering the UK market13:07
timelessooh, you own maemo.com?13:07
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X-FadeNah, that is Nokia itself too.13:08
crashanddietimeless: sorry, I forget </sarcasm?13:08
crashanddieX-Fade: yeah, btw the DNS should point to something a bit more interesting that "NORECORDS"13:08
timelesssome tags aren't optional ;-)13:09
ieatlintthe word "conquer" doesn't really belong anywhere near the word maemo13:09
crashanddieit does if you're trying to place a phone call13:09
ieatlintlol13:09
jaskaemphasis on trying?:)13:10
ieatlintmaemo should just be subtitled "good intentions"13:10
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crashanddiehaha, excellent13:10
crashanddie"Good intentions does not a successfull OS make"?13:11
timeless-l13:11
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Khertan_crashanddie: there are ... yep :)13:12
ieatlinthow about just "better than wimo, at least"13:12
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crashanddieieatlint: well, not really13:14
ieatlinthrm, how about "Sold more than the Microsoft Kin phone"13:15
crashanddieI mean, if you look at it, ieatlint, there is one more thing we need to consider when judging Maemo as a whole. Y'all remember Chewbacca? Chewbacca is a Wookie from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!13:15
X-Fadecrashanddie: Just Nokia domain squatting ;)13:16
ieatlinti vaguely recall chewbacca, yes13:16
ShadowJKhe was the one who hadn't shaved that morning13:17
crashanddieWhy would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with Maemo? Nothing. It has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I am an IRC troll idling in #maemo, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? I am not making any sense! None of this13:18
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ShadowJKand you're using an irc client unaware of 512 byte limit13:18
crashanddiejust irssi :)13:19
ieatlintcrashanddie, i'd guess he was compensating for something13:19
ieatlintyou know, like how to a midget you seem really big13:19
crashanddieieatlint: maybe I'm a person of low height?13:19
crashanddieieatlint: midget is a very insulting word, you know.13:19
crashanddiemaybe you'll use gnome or monkey next?13:19
ieatlinti wouldn't have used it otherwise13:19
ieatlint"vertically challenged"13:20
DuckbootI'm an oversized gnome13:20
crashanddieDuckboot: those are called trolls :D13:20
Duckbootcrashanddie: Haha13:20
Duckbootcrashanddie: Perhaps monkey is a more suiting word for me....13:20
* timeless arrives @HEL13:21
Khertan_hum ... there is many small differences between pyside and pyqt413:21
ieatlinti was once tempted to write a utility called midget that would get things midway through a file13:21
Khertan_and i like their doc : http://www.pyside.org/docs/pyside-dev/PySide/QtCore/Qt.html13:22
DocScrutinizerdman, it's THURSDAY, not friday :-P13:23
DuckbootDocScrutinizer: NSS13:23
DocScrutinizerNew zSealand Zsouth?13:23
DocScrutinizer~wtf nss13:24
infobotGee...  I don't know what nss means...13:24
DocScrutinizerlook, not even ibot knows13:24
DuckbootMy son had a suggestion to a perfect week: saturday, sunday, friday, saturday, friday, saturday, friday13:25
Sceltno fridays, you gotta work those days13:25
DocScrutinizerI'd miss one sunday13:25
ShadowJKas long as there are no mondays13:25
DocScrutinizer... and I'd need to dl Dr.House from the internets, due to missing tuesday13:26
DuckbootScelt: Fridays are always nice13:26
DuckbootDocScrutinizer: NSS = No Shit Sherlock13:27
DocScrutinizerOMFG the TV program :-/13:27
DocScrutinizerseems like they change saturday program every 6 months or so13:27
* Duckboot does not watch TV.13:28
DocScrutinizerI need to, not to forget what spoken German sounds like13:28
DuckbootDocScrutinizer: I have a german sister-in-law, so I'm covered.13:28
DocScrutinizerwell, I have the lady at the supermarket cashier, a "hello!.... Nice evening" every 4 days should suffice13:30
Duckboot;-P13:30
DocScrutinizerthat's about as much as I speak, or hear of directly spoken words. ~0.5 words / day13:31
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ShadowJKYou could start pretending you're deaf mute13:32
ShadowJKand write hallo in Sketch on n90013:32
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DocScrutinizerI adopted the habit of occasionally mumbling the English I type in here :-D13:34
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DuckbootDocScrutinizer: I have 3 kids - Believe me - I would prefer silence.13:34
* DocScrutinizer does13:34
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DocScrutinizerjust noticed a double click on BT headset hold button will repeat last outbound call. Anybody knew about that, and if yes then where from?13:36
DocScrutinizers/peat/dial/13:37
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: just noticed a double click on BT headset hold button will redial last outbound call. Anybody knew about that, and if yes then where from?13:37
DocScrutinizermeh, on wired headset it doesn't work13:40
Surfait should have been from the beginning13:40
Surfait's bt feature if I recall correctly13:40
Surfaall nokia devices should behave the same way for the bt headset button clicks13:41
DocScrutinizerbt for sure has absolutely no idea about redialing13:41
DocScrutinizerat least for SCP or whatever profile is used for phone headset13:42
Surfayes, but nokia bt sw does some logic for the buttons13:42
DocScrutinizerSurfa: I'm quite sure they don't, as some offer voice dialing on pressing button when no call established13:43
Surfaif you feel so :)13:43
DocScrutinizerthere is no Nokia bt sw afaik13:43
Surfai don't remember details and don't really feel like looking for them right now13:44
DocScrutinizerit's all plain bluez13:44
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Surfato some point yes, but bluez must forward some information to phone components too?13:45
timelessnokia wired has a special proprietary protocol13:46
DocScrutinizerI think it creates input events13:46
timelesswhich the n900 doesn't support13:46
timelessso for wired you get a fairly minimal set13:46
DocScrutinizertimeless: I'm talking bout the plain simple headset button13:46
timelessbt is more standardized w/ better magic13:47
timelessheh13:47
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timelesscapt jere nokia welcomes me aboad13:47
* timeless is flying HEL to OSL to LHR13:47
DocScrutinizertimeless: I know about the protocol, or to be exact I do *not* know despite I tried to find out13:47
timelessso i can wave to the trolls for a minute13:47
timelessanyway, we're off13:47
timelessi'll see people some time next week. have a good weekend13:48
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DocScrutinizerSurfa:13:52
DocScrutinizer[127233.459381] hci_h4p hci_h4p: firmware: requesting bcmfw.bin13:52
DocScrutinizer[127244.121490] input: 00:1C:A4:30:7A:A8 as /class/input/input413:52
DocScrutinizer[129020.923797] headphone (GPIO 177) is now connected13:52
DocScrutinizer[129022.041503] input: headset button as /class/input/input513:52
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DocScrutinizerif anybody has *any* pointer to / or generic info about the Nokia wired headset multimedia control protocol... Really appreciated! :-)13:56
DuckbootDocScrutinizer: There is a package somewhere which enables the volume-buttons on the headset.13:56
DocScrutinizeror maybe schematics of any such headset, or schematics of a Nokia phone compatible to such multibutton wired headset13:56
Duckbootextras-dev og -test13:56
X-FadeMohammadAG51: ping?13:57
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DocScrutinizerDuckboot: duh?! volume buttons of wired headset?13:57
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DuckbootDocScrutinizer: Jepp13:57
DocScrutinizero.O13:57
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DuckbootDocScrutinizer: headset-control13:58
Duckboothttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=2118213:58
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DocScrutinizerDuckboot: I can't find any mentioning of volume control via multibutton headset in that thread14:08
dotblank34Anyone noticed they added voip calling from gmail?14:08
dotblank34perhaps its implemented with google talk and maybe you can use xmpp to make land line calls14:08
DocScrutinizerfrom???14:08
dotblank34http://www.google.com/chat/voice/14:09
DocScrutinizerdotblank34: We had that topic some hours ago. AIUI google voice is SIP14:09
PerfDaveGoogle uses an XMPP extension to do SIP initiation over Jabber, yes.14:09
DocScrutinizerouch14:09
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dotblank34anyone to connect with the n900 sip client?14:09
DocScrutinizerfsck google14:10
dotblank34anywhere*14:10
PerfDaveDocScrutinizer: AFAIK it's an open standard, and implemented by other clients.14:10
DocScrutinizeropen: maybe. Stnadard: dooooubts14:10
dotblank34PerfDave: if thats the case then its entirely possible to program your own client14:10
dotblank34to sue gmails xmpp google voice dialer extension14:11
dotblank34use*14:11
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DocScrutinizerwell, I read some page months ago, about google inherited gizmo5, and gizmo is plain SIP afaik14:12
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DocScrutinizerso google should offer that interface as well14:12
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dotblank34DocScrutinizer: yes but this seems to be implemented over xmpp now14:12
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DocScrutinizerthen none of the gizmo users could continue to use his plain simple SIP14:13
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DocScrutinizerand there was some advice how they could do that14:13
DocScrutinizeriirc14:13
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dotblank34when I get it to work with my gmail account im going to test it with wireshark and see what its really doing14:13
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DocScrutinizerdotblank34: that's irrelevant14:14
dotblank34DocScrutinizer: How so?14:14
DocScrutinizeras elaborated above this will be SIP over XMPP14:14
dotblank34if I see the traffic is running over xmpp/jingle14:14
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dotblank34ok so it is over xmpp then14:14
* DocScrutinizer shakes head and wants to shout "READ!"14:15
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DocScrutinizer<DocScrutinizer> well, I read some page months ago, about google inherited gizmo5, and gizmo is plain SIP afaik  [2010-08-26 13:12:30] <DocScrutinizer> so google should offer that interface as well  [2010-08-26 13:13:10] <DocScrutinizer> then none of the gizmo users could continue to use his plain simple SIP14:16
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DocScrutinizerit's possible the plain SIP interface is restricted to gizmo users14:18
DocScrutinizerthough I'd not exactly see why they would want to do this14:18
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DocScrutinizermeh, nuke google with all its BS14:20
dotblank34The question is how does the gmail client interfaces with with google voice14:20
dotblank34can you even tunnel SIP through xmpp?14:21
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PerfDaveIt doesn't tunnel SIP through XMPP, as I understand it. It just uses XMPP to do the handshaking.14:21
DocScrutinizerplease stop spreading nonsense. a mail client can not connect to a voice service14:21
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crashanddiePerfDave: eh?14:21
crashanddiePerfDave: SIP is the handshaking protocol14:21
crashanddiethat's what SIP is all about14:22
zashjingle is also a handshaking protocol14:22
dotblank34ok right... but the voice and video addon for gmail wich as I understand it contains a xmpp client14:22
dotblank34so we are talking about that14:22
zashgoogle talk is xmpp14:22
dotblank34So is it now also a sip client too?14:22
crashanddienot necessarily14:23
crashanddiethey could still be using the xmpp frontend14:23
crashanddieconnect to a google server, which then does the SIP networking14:23
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DocScrutinizerB2B UA14:23
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dotblank34I think the only way to really find out is use wireshark14:24
DocScrutinizerfind out about what?14:24
crashanddieyou most probably won't see a lot14:24
crashanddieeverything is https with gmail14:24
DocScrutinizerhow to emulate shit we don't really want to use?14:25
crashanddiedotblank34: for the record, SIP uses RTP and RTCP to transfer the voice component. Basically SIP just says "Hey, I've got someone who wants to call you, send your voice data on this address at this port, I can use these codecs, but would prefer this one"14:26
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.google.com/support/forum/p/voice/thread?tid=16817c950860c1fb&hl=en14:27
crashanddiethen the other party replies "OK, you can send your voice data on this address at this port, and I'd like to use this codec, I'll let you know when my guy answered the phone"14:27
PerfDavecrashanddie: Have they fixed that then? They used to do https for most things, but some http which allowed cookie-stealing. It was talked about on the Tor mailing list a lot.14:27
crashanddiegmail never allowed the https attack14:27
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dotblank34Does the addon for google talk int he web browser use https?14:27
crashanddiewell, it did, like any other service, but then they moved on to always-on https14:27
dotblank34cause thats a seperate addon14:27
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: nope, SIP *usually* uses RTP, but basically SIP is agnostic about the transport protocol14:28
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crashanddieyeah, I just wanted to explain that SIP itself doesn't do voice or video or anything transfer14:28
DocScrutinizercorrect14:28
dotblank34crashanddie: right14:28
crashanddieI also wanted to point out that it's going to be a real pain to implement properly, honestly14:29
dotblank34What if google implemented a xmpp to sip gateway that you could make calls with jingle?14:29
PerfDaveFair enough, I just see "SIP client" when I look at VOIP software.14:29
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dotblank34wouldn't that make more sense?14:30
dotblank34then having the gmail voice client use sip14:30
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dotblank34google would then have to implement a dialing extension to xmpp and thats it really14:31
dotblank34maybe it doesn't perform well14:31
crashanddiesip -> jingle -> xmpp -> sip?14:32
dotblank34jingle is an extension of xmpp14:32
crashanddielink?14:33
dotblank34http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle_(protocol)14:33
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crashanddieta14:33
zashhttp://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0166.html14:33
dotblank34it would basically be a sip to jingle/xmpp bridge14:34
dotblank34in fact asterisk boxes can already do that14:34
mece_Stskeeps, are there changelogs for the meego releases somewhere?14:35
* mece_ is talking about the n900 weeky releases14:35
crashanddieerhm14:35
crashanddiedotblank34: I don't see the point, really14:36
Stskeepsmece_: yes, they come out with the normal release announcements on meego-dev14:36
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crashanddiedotblank34: you're talking about a p2p session control protocol14:36
crashanddiedotblank34: for phone calls to server entities?14:36
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DocScrutinizerFSCK google voice :-/14:36
dotblank34crashanddie: yes14:37
domrep666hi14:37
crashanddiedotblank34: why?14:37
domrep666Hallo mein Schatz.Ich bin soo schlecht im bett, kannst du mir nachhilfe geben ?:) C2C, T6, Realtreff, 3 D Livecams 5 Minuten Gratis Testen.  www.hottangacam.com14:37
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MohammadAG51too late14:37
crashanddiedamn14:37
dotblank34crashanddie: its not perfect but it means it would work with existing xmpp/jingle clients14:37
dotblank34liek the n900 :)14:37
MohammadAG51muhahaha14:37
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DocScrutinizerthere's a zillion nice SIP providers offering great service for free, now google jumps in and cooks it in sulfuric acid and offers it as the invention of sliced bread, and all the ***** are jumping on the train14:38
dotblank34well us calling is free14:38
dotblank34thats why14:38
DocScrutinizerdomrep - web interface?14:38
crashanddiedotblank34: I'm calling the whole world for free14:38
dotblank34crashanddie: with?14:39
* PerfDave stills wants nice free cross-platform voice+video14:39
crashanddiedotblank34: free.fr14:39
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dotblank34but you had to buy the box right? I can't read the website so I can't really tell the details14:40
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dotblank34seems like its 15/month or 20/month14:40
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crashanddiedotblank34: 30euros a month, 100mbit down, 50mbit up, unlimited data (no fair use), unlimited phone calls to 3/4 of the world, 300 hd tv channels through TV over IP, etc, etc14:41
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crashanddiesip service, unlimited web space, unlimited ftp space, etc14:42
dotblank34Im guessing its not available in america14:42
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: now that's the way to think about it :-) fsck google 'free calls'14:42
dotblank34:(14:42
crashanddienope, only France, and selected countries14:42
crashanddieerr14:42
crashanddieselected cities, rather14:43
dotblank34Im stuck with vertizon14:43
dotblank34verizon*14:43
crashanddieI'm laughing my ass off when I see bloggers wondering how long Google will be able to keep up with the free calls to the US14:43
dotblank34I pay about 500$ a month for cellular, tv and internet14:43
crashanddiethe US has some of the lowest termination fees in the bloody world14:43
dotblank34its insaine14:43
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: that's why they can offer outbound for free14:44
crashanddieheck, your mobile termination fees is the same as your landline, that is *unheard of* in other countries14:44
crashanddieUS/Canada is the only place I can call mobiles at the same rate as landline (free)14:44
DocScrutinizerand then your mobile carrier charges you for inbound minutes? LOL14:45
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dotblank34crashanddie: um im not too sure what you mean.. termination fees in the US on 2 year contracts are about $170 + cost of phone14:45
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: yeah well, their problem, not ours :P14:45
DocScrutinizeryep X-P14:45
crashanddiedotblank34: call termation fee, not contract.14:45
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: you can call the us for free with skype as well14:45
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: well, some numbers14:45
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crashanddiethough, Skype deliberately deteriorates the quality of calls to free numbers14:46
DocScrutinizerFWD is offering free US calls?14:46
crashanddiefront wheel drive?14:46
DocScrutinizerfree world dialup14:46
dotblank34crashanddie: my god that ticks me off so much.. it is nearly unbearable and I bought my own number+subscription14:46
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DocScrutinizerwell USA==third_world_of_telecommunication14:47
dotblank34Voice and telephones makes me want to rage14:48
dotblank34and internet in the US14:48
MohammadAG51EU ftw14:48
DocScrutinizeronly in USA you can buy 512 cheap mobile phones, mount them into a rack, with a server connected to all of them via data cables, and open your own carrier service14:48
dotblank34I get 30/5 for about $100 a month14:48
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DocScrutinizerhonestly, harald welte told me he seen such gateways between GSM carriers. "forward to AT+T? sorry all our 512 AT+T cellphones are currently occupied. please call again later, or tell you friend to use our service instead of AT+T"14:51
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dotblank34DocScrutinizer: wait what?14:52
DocScrutinizercarrier A using cellphones reistered to carrier B's network to forward your call originated in A to destination in B14:53
dotblank34um can't you just use something like flowroute14:53
kerioDocScrutinizer: that's illegal here :|14:53
ieatlintgoogle just bought two phone services to get this, they don't have a stack of gsm phones on a rack somewhere for it :P14:55
kerioand yeah, i still don't get how they can get away with charging you for the SMSes you receive14:55
ieatlintthose lucky enough to have gizmo accounts have sip for this, etc14:55
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dotblank34you can sms bomb people14:55
dotblank34wich is insaine14:55
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ieatlinti can sms bomb people on maemo using a bash script14:56
ieatlintmeh14:56
dotblank34lol14:56
lcukdont you get the dialog saying how much credit is left?14:56
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dotblank34most people I know have unlimted text so... doesn't really matter14:56
lcukafter every message sent14:57
DocScrutinizerlcuk: on reception of inbound SMS? :-P14:57
ieatlintnah, it matters... it may not cost them anything to get the sms, but if you really hammer their phone, they can't do anything with a new sms notification every 2 seconds14:57
lcukDocScrutinizer, I meant on outbound14:57
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ieatlintor, they can't do as much at least.. :P14:57
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dotblank34I don't think it would hammer then900 as much14:57
lcuki remember pr1.0 I could send sms messages one word at a time, using [ENTER] as punctuation14:57
lcukdrove luke batty14:57
fralslcuk: :D14:58
lcukbut that fun ended :)14:58
DocScrutinizerlcuk: LOOOL rotfl14:58
fralslcuk: and then theres congestion and they end up in the wrong order on her phone14:58
frals:D14:58
lcukand now theres a dialog that pops up after each message is sent14:58
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fralsdialog? O_o14:58
DocScrutinizer?? not here14:58
fralsteh wat14:58
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* frals thinks lcuk has done something to his phone14:59
lcukif user=='lcuk' stop_him_from_sending_sms();14:59
lcuk??14:59
* DocScrutinizer thinks lcuk has configured reception notification for his SMS14:59
fralsgrep -iR "workaround to stop lcuk spamming" *.. yepp, seems about right lcuk15:00
lcukit tells me my balance after sending15:00
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fralslcuk: dont have that here15:00
DocScrutinizerooh15:00
fralslcuk: how did you get that? :D15:00
DocScrutinizerthat's a feature of your carrier15:00
DocScrutinizerN900 has no notion of your balance neither a way to query it15:00
lcukprolly more related to PAYG15:00
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DocScrutinizercarrier is sending a SMS type "notification" to you, on every sent SMS15:01
* lcuk gotten used to it15:02
ieatlinti seem to recall that being an optional feature that you can turn on/off15:02
DocScrutinizerthere's a friggin lot of different SMS types: config SMS, plain SMS, UTF SMS, invisiible SMS, blinking SMS15:02
DocScrutinizer...15:02
DocScrutinizerieatlint: reception notification is15:03
dotblank34can't you send an sms to change the settings of the phone?15:03
DocScrutinizer"SMS delivered to destination"15:03
ieatlintthere's also a maemo widget for doing ussd queries that may be used to tell you any balance and such15:03
dotblank34ussd works on my phone now15:03
DocScrutinizerdotblank34: ... config SMS,...15:03
dotblank34DocScrutinizer: so thats what its called!15:04
crashanddieyeah, nothing like having a command prompt through SMS15:04
MohammadAG51who's on EU firmware?15:04
ieatlintyeah, but i mean instead of manually typing it, it does the query and formats the data it receives as you specify15:04
dotblank34DocScrutinizer: can yous end your own config sms to other phoens?15:04
crashanddiesudo gainroot; rm -rf /*15:04
MohammadAG51xD15:04
DocScrutinizerdotblank34: If you know how, then yes15:04
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dotblank34DocScrutinizer: lol really.. that really really insecure15:04
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DocScrutinizerwell, you usually can't fake the sender info15:05
RST38hmoo all15:05
DocScrutinizerand config SMS are madatory to ask user for OK15:05
dotblank34DocScrutinizer: usually?15:05
MohammadAG51moo RST38h15:05
dotblank34DocScrutinizer: well im sure 90% of the people I know would say ok15:06
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DocScrutinizerdotblank34: if you got no special 'wire' to the network exchange15:06
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dotblank34DocScrutinizer: sounds illegal15:06
carp3Hi, is it possible to install Symbian on N900 ?15:06
DocScrutinizersure15:07
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DocScrutinizereven a cray emu15:07
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DocScrutinizermeh15:09
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kerioDocScrutinizer: well, it is definetely *possible*15:11
keriowith no restrictions about speed, of course15:11
* DocScrutinizer shrugs15:12
* DocScrutinizer wonders what chroot is called under symbian15:12
keriowrite emulator, run emulator, ???, C&D!15:12
DocScrutinizerthough you'd probably need something more brute force than just a chroot, to make maemo blobs work under symb15:13
crashanddiekerio: yes?15:13
kerionot you ._.15:13
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SpeedEvilIt would be shiny though.15:14
kerioc&d as in cease and desist15:14
SpeedEvils60-wine15:14
keriowins60e15:15
kerioWine Is Not a S60 Emulator15:15
* SpeedEvil imagines the response to that turning up in extras-devel.15:15
jaskawhy? isnt symbian opensores?15:17
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DocScrutinizerjaska: is maemo oss15:18
DocScrutinizer?15:19
jaskasome of it15:19
kerioso you see15:19
DocScrutinizerand why isn't al of it oss yet?15:19
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jaskayou mean symbian is opensores but s60 isnt, rendering it useless?15:19
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DocScrutinizerno, I mean you'll have same hard time as mer had, to get it running on N900 natively15:20
jaskawell, one would just emulate the userland interfaces, not the hw stuff15:21
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, which firmware variant are you on15:21
DocScrutinizerinternational?15:21
MohammadAGdamn15:21
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DocScrutinizerwhat else?15:22
MohammadAGdpkg -l mp-fremantle*15:22
DocScrutinizerUK?15:22
MohammadAGnah, EU15:22
DocScrutinizerthere's no such thing afaik15:22
MohammadAGthere's US/EU/MEA and global15:22
DocScrutinizerhmm, no idea15:23
keriowhat's the difference?15:23
DocScrutinizermaybe I've chosen "western decadence"15:23
kerioi think i'm on EU, or global15:23
DocScrutinizerthough the "A" not exactly meets this description15:24
JaffaX-Fade: Did dneary ask you if the karma count is known & up-to-date? Nominations should have been announced as available from midnight UTC and... they're not.15:24
MohammadAGdpkg -l mp-fremantle*15:24
MohammadAGif it's mp-fremantle-generic-pr, it's global15:24
MohammadAG002 is US15:24
MohammadAG003 is EU15:24
X-FadeMohammadAG: Lies15:25
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RST38hMohammad: solving that no-spanish-translations problem?15:25
X-FadeMohammadAG: 003 == Middle East and North Africa15:25
MohammadAGah15:25
X-FadeMohammadAG: Check the list at: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php15:25
DocScrutinizerii  mp-fremantle-generic-pr   10.2010.19-115:25
crashanddieGAN900: have you tried quake live lately?15:25
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zashthere is no EU calling code15:28
zashsince EU isn't a country15:28
zashorwhat15:28
ieatlinti'm pretty sure it is15:28
* zash has no clue of what is talked about15:28
ieatlintjust like africa15:29
keriotsamina mina eh eh15:29
keriowaka waka eh eh15:29
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X-FadeJaffa: I'll check, but I haven't seen any issues.15:33
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dnearyStskeeps, Ping?15:58
JaffaX-Fade: Ah, dneary's back now15:58
Stskeepsdneary: pong15:58
JaffaIndeed, there ^^^15:58
dnearyJaffa, Yup?15:59
Jaffadneary: Was asking X-Fade about karma status. His response "fine AFAIK"16:00
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dnearya. k16:00
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RST38hNokia Care now on Twitter - @NokiaHelps16:16
RST38hNokia also has a US specific Nokia Care account, @NokiaCareUS, which provides support for the US market. The @NokiaHelps account provides global coverage and is run by Juha-Matti Heikkinen (@JuhisH), Social Media Editor at Nokia Care.16:17
RST38hStskeeps: Which one?16:17
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Stskeepswhat?16:17
RST38hsorry wromg channel16:19
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RST38hOk, short question:16:25
RST38hStandard Qt (not mobility thing). I need to implement a configuration settings page that only gets shown when (guess!) editing settings.16:26
RST38hWhat is the best/simplest way to implement it?16:26
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RST38hAnyone knows where I can get help on MADDE?16:34
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RST38hShit, this MADDE thing is even more useless than SB =(16:43
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andre__Hmm, does nobody of the maemo.org crew use qaiku anymore, or has just everybody moved on to meego already except for me? :-P16:49
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Stskeepsxfade used it 8 days ago :P16:51
andre__I feel lonely! :-P16:51
parser_Does anyone know of any bluejacking tool for the N900 running maemo 5 ?16:52
sx0nRST38h, :)16:52
X-Fadeandre__: Yeah, I should report more.16:52
X-Fadeandre__: Just doing so many things at the same time that I forget to do that.16:52
parser_Noone?16:53
andre__X-Fade, hehe. well, wasn't meant as criticism, was just wondering :)16:54
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pupnik_amplifier tests - what to look for etc http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=85586517:21
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disseheyho17:25
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disseI've started the scratchbox environment, I could grab the mouse and keyboard with ctrl+shift. But I can't see my mouse cursor. I've followed this tutorial: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation17:26
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dissebut I've forgot to -u $USER17:26
dissehow can I fix this problems?17:27
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disseor how can I reinstall?17:27
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tobis87hi! since omap-aes does not work yet with aes-256, i searched a bit around and then i found this: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/another_new_aes.html17:29
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dissemy problem is solved, XD17:29
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tobis87aes-128 is securer than aes-256 : "In the case of AES-128, there is no known attack which is faster than the 2^128 complexity of exhaustive search." "an attack against 11-round AES-256 that requires 2^70 time (is) almost practical."17:29
dissebut only the mouse is not visible17:30
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tobis87The main problem seems to be the key schedule of AES-256, which is not of industrial strength" (..) Ironically, the new attacks work best against AES-256 (which was supposed to be the strongest member of the AES family), and do not currently seem to work against AES-128.17:34
tobis87The most disturbing aspect of the new attacks is that AES can no longer be considered as a safe black box construction, which can be dropped into any security application with little thought about how it is used.17:34
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tobis87but what could be done about it? schneier suggests to increase the number of rounds. maybe we will see double aes in the future (2AES) ?!17:36
crashanddiepardon the offence, but tobis87, are you another bruce bitch?17:36
crashanddieover the past few days, you haven't come in here without quoting bruce at least once17:37
crashanddiequite frankly, I don't care about aes 128 or 256 being compromised, and I doubt many in here do, it's a mobile operating system, one that gives you root access nearly out of the box17:37
tobis87crashanddie: sorry? no i haven't the first time that i write about bruce. or did i, i have to check.17:38
Stskeepscrashanddie: be nice, he's a contributing developer with interest in hw acceleration of crypto on n900.17:38
crashanddieif anything, a hammer or torn finger will give an attacker all the passwords he needs17:38
Stskeeps:P17:38
crashanddieStskeeps: I know, I know, but I'm just trying to figure out what the point is17:38
tobis87crashanddie: for me it is knowledge, not use.17:38
crashanddiefair enough17:39
RST38hThe po17:39
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tobis87crashanddie: no, i did not mention anything from him before, but i write to much about crypto stuff. i would be willing to help about host mode, but i don't know how i could, maybe i could bugtest the kernel if it becomes available.17:44
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crashanddietobis87: truth is, when it comes to security, experts like schneier were predicting the end of DES and 3DES by the end of 2002, but it's still around -- and in very security-conscious industries17:47
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crashanddierather than trying to get the best encryption possible, it's usually a lot cheaper and easier to implement security measures which don't really rely on technology to be strong17:47
crashanddieWhy are we still using 3DES in the banking industry for online operation when we know it can be broken in a matter of hours (20 last I read, so probably 15 by now)?17:48
crashanddieWell, simply because the validity of the data can be numbered in seconds.17:48
PerfDaveUhm, it's more like the fact that the crypto is rarely the weak point in the security chain :)17:48
tobis87crashanddie: some banks even still use os/2 (or now ecomstation)17:48
crashanddietobis87: well, depends what you're talking about, but a lot of ATMs still run windows 3.117:49
crashanddieHeck, there's an ATM in London that had the fake antivirus "You need to purchase a subscription" banner splashed in the middle of the screen17:49
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crashanddieThat malware didn't get there through credit cards, is was put on there by a techie with too much porn on his USB drive17:50
tobis87crashanddie: but why? the backward compatibility of windows is not that bad... win 3.x -> no memory protection17:50
tobis87and only cooperative multitasking17:51
crashanddiebecause ATMs are usually (if not always) third party, and it's the company that is supposed to do the maintenance17:51
crashanddiewell, ATMs don't really require multitasking :P17:51
crashanddieyou can't even display the balance and withdraw cash at the same time :D17:51
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PerfDaveHey, there's nothing wrong with having porn on a USB drive :p17:52
tobis87crashanddie: i even see some siemens nixdorf's are still in use17:53
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tobis87PerfDave: Nah, I'm old enough that I don't need to hide my collection. :-D , it's more about swap and the stuff you do on it.17:54
MohammadAG51ugh, i hate it when microb can't scroll with the mouse/ts17:55
crashanddietobis87: considering how old the display server is, ssh and how buggy busybox is, I'm sure there are plenty of attack vectors other than a coldboot or swap dump17:55
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MohammadAG51how do i restart browserd after stopping it17:57
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MNZMohammadAG51, a quick grep yeilds /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon.init17:58
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tobis87crashanddie: if you can do it, why shouldn't you do it... nmap n900_outside_ip gives "All 1000 scanned ports are closed", you will always find a way to exploit a device locally. i just say firewire dma :)18:02
crashanddieand a mobile phone is inherently local18:03
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crashanddieI come by your desk, have access to your phone, sit next to you on the bus, have access to your phone, heck, if we take bluetooth hacks into account, even taking a piss in the same bathroom as you is local18:04
keriothe ultimate hack would be to piss on it18:05
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kerioexplain *that* to nokia care18:05
crashanddieheck, I'm almost willing to bet that as we speak, there's an app going easily through the QA process that is about to send each and everyone's keypresses wide into the internet18:05
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MohammadAG51MNZ, hmm, ty, browser still doesn't open pages18:06
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tobis87crashanddie: it always depends on how much you trust a program, there is a lot of crap, but people still think they need it. i do run tshark, from time to time to check, well except there also could be a rootkit in the background.18:09
crashanddietobis87: well, if you install any new apps in the next month or two, there definitely will be.18:09
DocScrutinizer51uh?18:10
tobis87crashanddie: ?, nokiasiemens enhanced update? :-D18:11
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Duckbootcrashanddie: http://www.rootkit.nl/projects/rootkit_hunter.html18:12
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tobis87http://www.security-projects.com/?Unhide18:13
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keriomonolithic kernel ftw18:14
crashanddieDuckboot: I don't see Maemo in there ;)18:15
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crashanddie"The first operators employed by the Bell Telephone Company were young boys who worked standing up. Only after several years did it occur to anybody to provide them with chairs."18:18
crashanddieIn other news, the first choirboys singing in catholic churches had to study their text being bent over. Only after several hundred years did it occur to anybody that there may be something wrong with this.18:19
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* RST38h #meego vaguely remembers comparing flahs memory prices in .PL vs .RU and they were the same18:21
Duckbootcrashanddie: I might package that one for Maemo.18:23
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keriocrashanddie: lol18:25
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hrwhttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/08/26/switched-from-catorise-to-apmefo/18:27
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* VladNistor says hello18:44
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VladNistori seem to have an issue with my N900, my clock is not showing up and it freezez when I try to open anything from the menu18:46
VladNistoreven after flashing it18:46
VladNistorand I still have my contacts after flashing, which shouldn't happen if I read the wiki correctly18:47
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VladNistorand what I mean bu clock is anything to the right of my menu button until the app title, basically the notification area18:47
crashanddiethe contacts shouldn't be deleted18:48
crashanddieunless you flash the rootfs as well18:48
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VladNistorI see, i did a firware update basically, thought it would get rid of the problem18:49
VladNistorbut it's unasble as a phone now18:49
VladNistorand I can't mount it as a drive to back up my back-ups18:50
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tobis87Could you do df -h in xterm? Maybe the partitions are somehow messed up.18:51
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VladNistori just don't get the option on the phone to select mass storage18:52
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VladNistori have xterm access, yes18:52
tobis87You mean, if you connect it with usb, it doesn't give you the option?18:52
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VladNistornope, some of the stuff doesn't work18:53
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VladNistorfor example if I get a call, I can answer it, but after the call ends i can't use the device anymore, need to do a hard restart for it to work again18:54
VladNistorit just hangs18:54
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VladNistorand because i just flashed the firmware i don't know if i have ssh18:54
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tobis87you should try to flash it completly, root and emmc.18:55
VladNistoryeah, but i'd need my backup off my emmc first :(18:55
tobis87maybe something is messed up in /home/user18:56
* VladNistor wonders why he didn't back up the backup18:56
VladNistorprobably so, some settings somewhere18:56
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tobis87yeah, that is why i asked you about the option on usb. what os do you use on your pc? you could mount a network share and copy important stuff over.18:57
churlso you18:57
churlsorry18:57
churlso you guys hear about making calls from gmail?18:58
VladNistorthe output of df -h seems ok18:58
VladNistorubuntu maverick18:58
tobis87have you set up a nfs server on ubuntu?18:59
VladNistorlemme check18:59
VladNistornope, i can install it though19:00
VladNistortobis87, you're suggesting mounting the share and copying what I need. interesting19:01
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tobis87after you got nfs working on ubuntu, on n900, sudo gainroot, add extra-devel. apt-get install nfs-common, /etc/init.d/portmapper start, /etc/init.d/nfs-common start. mount ip-adress:/share /media/folder19:02
tobis87cp -r important_stuff /media/folder19:02
VladNistoryeah, small problem :)) i don't have root on the n900 as i just flashed it19:03
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tobis87apt-get install rootsh19:03
PerfDaveHmm, do you need to run portmapper and nfs-common on the N900 to mount a remote NFS share?19:04
VladNistori'm not permitted :))19:05
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tobis87i'm not sure about nfs-common, but portmapper, yes...19:05
VladNistori'm user, not root, so can't command line such stuff19:05
VladNistoryeah, i installed what I need :)19:06
VladNistoron the ubuntu i mean19:06
VladNistordo you know the command for the app-manager in maemo?19:06
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tobis87you have to install it from the application manager then, but you said that it always crashes, right? no, don't know the name19:07
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VladNistoryeah, i just tried through the menu, now the phone just stalls19:08
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tobis87VladNistor: Did you recently tried some hacks, for hildon or oc your device? My n900 also reboots if I open a folder with many pictures to fast. it the modified hildonfm from mece_, but i know how to avoid it, just need to wait a litlle bit after opening a folder.19:10
DocScrutinizerhildon-application-manager or hildon-application-manager.launch19:10
VladNistoryeah19:10
VladNistorit was Oc'd amd I tried M's hildon stuff19:10
VladNistorbut i reinstalled hildon and the kernel after i got the issue19:11
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DocScrutinizerand the modules?19:11
VladNistorit doesn't reboot, mine just hangs there19:11
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VladNistoryes, i had some kernel modules installed19:12
VladNistori did have some sort of kernel crash a few days ago19:12
DocScrutinizerwell, have fun...19:12
tobis87mmh, i think it was not a good idea to allow precompiled kernel modules. some are for the old kernel before pr1.2.19:12
tobis87and are not updated19:13
VladNistorbut the phone worked well until yesterday19:13
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VladNistori would have expected stuff to go wrong after an update or smth19:13
DocScrutinizer~omap-oc19:13
infobotomap-oc is, like, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05  read that!19:13
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tobis87open xterm, and do find . -mtime -X (X are the number of dates ago it worked), you could also do this in /lib/modules or /etc19:14
VladNistori had the oc installed but haven't actually run above 600 vor a few days19:15
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VladNistorwhat am I looking for exactly?19:17
tobis87VladNistor: It's not a good idea, but it also shouldn't fry your device instancly. Check the modules in /lib/modules, if they are the right ones. But your problem is that you can't install rootsh, which you need in order to backup your data, before you do a full reflash19:18
VladNistoryeah, it is. lemme see if i can run the hildon-app*19:18
VladNistorwow, options no longer have names, they're like ai_li_uninstall19:19
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VladNistorlet's see if it can update the app lists19:20
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tobis87could you try fsck.ext3? but i think you need to remount the home partion ro first, if this is even possible.19:21
VladNistoris it normal for stuff to no longer have the display name... like it's saying wdgtbstop instead of Stop19:21
VladNistoryeah, ext3 needs to be offline methinks19:21
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VladNistoroh, and the phone gets quite warm, which didn't happen before :-?19:22
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tobis87as i said, probably the home partion is messed up. taking the battery out to restart is not very healthy, if the phone stalles.19:23
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VladNistori keep the power button pressed and it dies19:23
VladNistoryeah, so I managed to install rootsh, but now i got a notification and it stalled, this is fun19:24
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VladNistori'm restarting now... thanks for the help btw :)19:25
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tobis87has the same effect. the n900 should really have a sysrq key. so you could restart it if it's stalled.19:26
tobis87no problem19:26
VladNistori bet they weren't expecting it to stall, lol19:26
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tobis87I had to work with on a server recently, and only a mac keyboard was availible. these also don't have a sysrq key.19:28
VladNistorheh, they thinks osx doesn't breal19:28
VladNistorbreak19:29
tobis87the grub entry was wrong, and there was no way to reboot the machine than pushing the power button. no reboot, init, halt worked.19:29
tobis87after fixing it.19:30
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VladNistorheh19:31
VladNistoralright, i need to setup a ntfs share in ubuntu now, brb19:31
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tobis87no the server runs debian, but they are all apple fan boys...19:32
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ToeiReiHi19:33
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tobis87cat "/sharename ip_broadcast_adress (e.g. 192.168.0.0/24) (rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)" > /etc/exports19:33
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tobis87"/etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server restart"19:34
ToeiReiIs there a difference from the users point of view regarding flashing a rootfs and just 'updating' via Software updater app?19:34
mgedminToeiRei, yes19:35
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mgedminflashing removes all 3rd party apps you had installed19:35
ToeiReimgedmin: disregarding 3rd party apps and resetting anything to 'factory'19:36
tobis87ToeiRei: It depends, how much stuff you have installed, how much space you have and dist-upgrades mess much more stuff up.19:36
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ToeiReiI see... I just got a new N90019:36
mgedminflashing is more reliable; upgrading is usually more convenient (no need to back up/restore stuff)19:36
tobis87ToeiRei: Do a flash.19:36
zashDo a barrel roll!19:36
ToeiReiokay. Now this will get interesting.19:37
VladNistorthanks tobis87, i was folloing a guid, just did that :))19:37
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ToeiReiokay... I found a howto on flashing and the device is at the charger... but regarding the images, what's the fiasco image?19:38
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ToeiReiwell... the fiasco is that I can't find a proper one..19:39
tobis87ToeiRei: It depends, how much you have already done on your n900. You don't need to flash emmc. Do however open xterm first, and enter touch .cherry_state19:39
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ToeiReiterminal? uhm... that sounds scary.19:40
tobis87or was the file called19:40
ToeiReihttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php gives me a number of images.19:40
ToeiReieMMC and PR Versions19:40
tobis87yes, after you update to pr1.2 it sends a sms to nokia with your data... if you create that file, the sms is skipped.19:40
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tobis87well, there is also a package for this. mom19:41
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ToeiReitobis87: I don't want to brick the N900...19:41
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ToeiReiI'm familiar to the bash regarding linux19:41
VladNistortobis87, on my N900 i used mount address:/where-on/my/pc /home/user/MyDocs/remote but it's not giving any feedback19:41
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tobis87ToeiRei: you will, sometime in the future...19:42
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ToeiReitobis87: I am working with linux already... I helped developing the btrfs at the kernel :P19:42
VladNistordon't I need to install smth with nfs on maemo?19:43
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tobis87ToeiRei: open xterm and do "> .cherry_state" this will prevend the n900 from sending a sms after flashing19:45
tobis87ToeiRei: http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription19:45
ToeiReiah... in /home/user.19:46
tobis87 VladNistor: This will not work, MyDocs is vfat, this does not support mounting.19:46
ToeiReifile created.19:46
VladNistori see, so should i do it on the 2gb one?19:46
VladNistor*one=partition19:46
tobis87ToeiRei: yes, now you can flash.19:46
ToeiReiokay... so I can use RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ?19:47
tobis87VladNistor: Is the 2gb one the home? The home is ext3, so yes19:47
VladNistortobis87, alright, so i don't need to install anything else then?19:48
tobis87ToeiRei: Yes, that is the right one...19:48
ToeiReiokay. so this is the fiasco image they're talking about in the howto?19:48
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tobis87VladNistor: No, you shouln't. I hope you don't have any firewall active. Maybe you have to check etc/hosts.allow as well on Ubuntu19:49
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tobis87ToeiRei: Just check the filesize the fiasco is smaller, since it doesn't need to restore emmc.19:50
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ToeiReitobis87: it is smaller.19:51
ToeiReiI'll give it a shot19:51
VladNistoralright, so i did mount 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote19:53
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VladNistorthe hosts.allow is empty, should I enter something there you think?19:54
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tobis87VladNistor: You also have to check for the permission of the folder you export. And if it is mounted, I think you can only copy as non-root because of root_squash19:54
tobis87VladNistor: No, this is only needed if you can't mount it19:54
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VladNistoryeah, i think i'm not connected to the network with the n900, sucks having no notification area...19:55
VladNistorapplication manager should connect fine :))19:55
tobis87but how could you mount it, if you are not connected?19:55
ToeiReiokay - it is flashing19:56
ToeiReiyay :)19:56
* lbt wonders how many maemo devs are interested in the movement towards MeeGo...19:56
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Stskeepslbt: i was wondering about a poll earlier19:56
tobis87ToeiRei: Make sure you flash kernel and root without restart.19:56
Stskeeps"gtk, wanting to move to meego" "gtk, want to stay in maemo", "qt, want to move to meego", "qt, want to stay in meego" or "qt, want to go to symbian"..19:57
ToeiReiI used the command from the wiki19:57
Stskeeps:P19:57
lbtStskeeps: I *nearly* suggested it....19:57
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lbtbut I wanted qualitative...19:57
ToeiReikernel flashed, CMT flashed19:57
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VladNistoryeah, i know :(20:02
ToeiReithanks20:02
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VladNistortobis97, it just sits there, no feedback on what it's doing at the mount command20:08
VladNistorand i'm sure i'm online now :))20:08
VladNistoroh, it says it failed: Input/output error20:09
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tobis87try mount -o nolock 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote20:14
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VladNistoryeah, i got a call, rebooting :|20:17
VladNistorit said permission denied when i used mount -t nfs20:18
VladNistori'll try with the -o nolock :)20:18
tobis87your export should be: /home/nistor/N900 /home/remote 192.168.0.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)20:19
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tobis87argh no, /home/nistor/N900 192.168.0.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)20:19
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tobis87no /home/nistor/N900 /home/remote 192.168.1.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)20:19
tobis87i'd not have enough coffee today /home/nistor/N900 192.168.1.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)20:20
tobis87hosts.deny: ALL : ALL20:21
tobis87hosts.allow: ALL     : localhost : ALLOW20:21
tobis87portmap : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW20:21
tobis87nfsd    : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW20:21
tobis87mountd  : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW20:21
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tobis87and you need to restart nfs-kernel-server and portmapper20:23
VladNistornolock works mate, thanks a bunch20:25
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tobis87try to copy the files first, before you thank me. there could still be some permisson problems.20:26
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VladNistoryeah, just issued the command, nothing going on yet, let's see :))20:31
VladNistori could make a dir in /home/remote, so i dunno20:32
VladNistorit wrote a couple of files so i guess it's working20:34
tobis87it does not show, what it is doing, if you use cp -vr it should be verbose.20:34
tobis87That was hard work, I hope you really need these files. I would always save important stuff on the sd card.20:35
VladNistorit's quite slow, only wrote 700k so far :))20:35
VladNistori don't have an sd card :(20:36
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tobis87yes, i have seen this as well, i thought it was only a problem with openvpn. i tried using nfs over openvpn. so nfs is already slow, but why? power saving?20:37
VladNistori have no clue, reduced the size of the transfer, not taking everything i wanted, it would take days :))20:38
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tobis87is net.ipv4.tcp_window_scaling enabled? check "cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_window_scaling", if it returns 0, do as root echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_window_scaling20:41
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VladNistoron N900 or Ubuntu?20:42
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tobis87both, mmh, but this can't be really the issue.20:42
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VladNistorthey both have 1 :)20:43
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tobis87I don't now than. But I would also like to know why nfs is so slow on the n900.20:44
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VladNistoryeah, me too20:46
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tobis87let's test some stuff... do echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max; echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_max20:48
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tobis87echo "4096 87380 16777216" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rmem; echo "4096 65536 16777216" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_wmem20:50
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tobis87echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_timestamps; echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_sack20:51
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VladNistorsorry, i was fixing something to eat while i wait20:52
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VladNistortobis87, on both, right?20:52
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tobis87on both machines and try it again. i hope it helps, disabling sack, and timestamps should reduce the cpu load and the other stuff increases the max buffer for tcp.20:53
tobis87yes20:53
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VladNistorit says permission denied on the ubuntu20:54
VladNistorwith sudo also20:54
tobis87which command20:54
VladNistorfirst20:54
VladNistorecho 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max; echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_max20:54
tobis87you have to be root, not sudo. sudo su and than the command again20:55
zashVladNistor: sudo echo foo > somefile isn't opening the file with sudo permissions20:55
zashVladNistor: try echo ... | sudo tee /proc/sys...20:55
VladNistoroh, i see20:55
VladNistorthanks20:55
zashsince > redirection is done by the shell20:56
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VladNistorit's not copying anything :|21:00
VladNistori gave it the copy -r source destination but nothing is written on my hard drive21:00
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tobis87you should also try to mount the nfs share with mount -o nolock,hard,intr,rsize=8192,wsize=8192 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote21:01
VladNistoralright, i'll try that :)21:02
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VladNistorin a minute though21:02
tobis87mmh, and do cp -rv21:02
tobis87and make sure there is async in exports21:03
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VladNistorthere is async21:09
VladNistorand i got a call and had to restart :|21:10
tobis87forget the /proc/sys stuff, I'm sure rsize and wsize will improve it.21:11
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VladNistorthanks, the -rv option doesn't work, it seems to have a problem with the v21:15
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VladNistordoesn't seem to like that :))21:17
tobis87do you have coreutils installed? it would be gcp then21:17
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VladNistorman, thanks, it's 10000000 times faster :D21:17
tobis87warp speed!21:17
VladNistor40 mb so far :))21:18
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VladNistoryeah, it slowed a bit, but it's good :)21:19
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tobis87when will anything ever work on the n900, without hours of work. At least we have again learned something from it.21:20
tobis87up until the next call :-D21:20
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VladNistoryup, seems to have stopped though, nothing added in a minute :-?21:22
tobis87don't know maybe it swaps out to disk.21:24
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tobis87have you changed the default swapiness? it uses the unused memory, as a buffer.21:26
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VladNistorhasn't done anything in like 5 minutes21:28
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VladNistorthen again i don't know how big the file is...21:28
tobis87how?21:28
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tobis87gls -Fho21:28
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johnsqHi21:30
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tobis87or ls -h for busybox I think21:30
th3hatehow to make busybox support bash commands?21:31
johnsquse bash21:31
MohammadAG51install bash and don't use busybox21:31
th3hatethe package is called bash?21:31
johnsqMohammadAG51: ^5 :)21:31
VladNistordoesn't work21:32
MohammadAG51bash or bash3, not sure21:32
VladNistorthe Fho, but there are 6 files and i only have 221:32
tobis87apt-get install coreutils-gnu bash21:32
MohammadAG51johnsq, ^C21:32
tobis87echo "source /etc/bash.bashrc" >> /etc/profile21:33
tobis87and reopen xterm21:33
VladNistorhmmm, i doubt it's normal for the transfer to not do anything, and i'm sure i'm online21:33
tobis87you can also edit /sbin/gainroot and change sh to bash21:34
tobis87VladNistor: I don't know, but your n900 is serious borked. How important is this file for you? Is it an encrypted container, or why is that file so big?21:35
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VladNistorit's the backed up contacts and settings21:36
VladNistorand app list :))21:36
VladNistoroh, i'm gonna try something else, i think i have the contacts exported somewhere21:37
MohammadAG51how big is it?21:38
tobis87Do you really need the settings and the apps? Every day there are new versions in extra and -devel, you won't be able to restore all apps without work anyway. You could write down your contacts on paper.21:38
VladNistortotal is 87 mb21:39
MohammadAG51heh, mine are around 65 or so21:39
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VladNistorall 260 of them? =))21:39
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tobis87So, you got 40mb, before it stoped. Why don't you try to split the file or compress it?21:40
VladNistori did a ctr+c on the cp -r command and it doesn't stop :(21:40
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VladNistorthey're 5 zips and a metadata21:41
tobis87open another xterm, sudo gainroot; ps ax | grep cp; kill -9 (pid of cp)21:41
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VladNistori have a udhcpc, would that be it?21:43
VladNistorit stopped, yay21:43
tobis87yes, tar the stuff. and split it.21:43
VladNistorwhat are the options for tar again? i can21:45
VladNistori can't remember them21:45
MohammadAG51j for tar.bz221:47
MohammadAG51z for tar.gz21:47
tobis87tar cvf name.tar file file file ....21:47
MohammadAG51x to extract, v for verbose21:47
MohammadAG51c to create21:47
VladNistoryeah, i googled it :))21:47
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tobis87but you should really use gtar, apt-get install gnu-tar, gtar czvf name.tar.gz file file file ....21:48
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VladNistoryeah, i should, but i don't have stuff installed on it21:49
merlin1991tar vs gtar what exactly is the difference?21:49
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tobis87merlin1991: i think gnu-tar supports more options. the default stuff on the n900 is busybox which is crap, if you are used to work with the gnu utils.21:50
johnsqmerlin1991: the one does a good job in 10k the other need 100 mb for nothing more21:51
johnsqthis is called the gnu syndrom21:52
tobis87but you now really need to install coreutils, for gsplit.21:52
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tobis87johnsq: it depends, i have if [ "$TERM" != "dumb" ]; then eval "`gdircolors -b`" alias gls='gls -Fho --color=auto --group-directories-first' alias ggrep='ggrep --color=auto' in /etc/bash.bashrc... working in xterm is much nicer with this.21:55
fralshmm21:55
fralswhat the requirements of being picked to maemo select?21:55
fralss/what/what's/21:55
infobotfrals meant: what's the requirements of being picked to maemo select?21:55
mecebig boobs21:55
johnsqtobis87: iiiih colors....21:56
tobis87yes, grep is much nicer with color. search terms in red.21:56
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rtylerhalp! would it be possible to change the default browser used when clicking on links and such to use Opera Mobile instead of the builtin Mozilla-based browser?22:20
* rtyler is using an n900 FWIW22:20
MohammadAG* Loaded log from Tue Jun 22 14:25:34 2010 <-- ~ sweet ~22:20
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satmdrtyler: Browser Switchboard is in one of the repositories22:22
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Khertanmece, if you use the gitorious version the pylint plugin is now fully working22:24
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VladNistorthanks tobis87, i've now flashed the emmc and it works like a charm :P22:36
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MohammadAGSDK installation fail22:37
MohammadAGInstalling from Debian packages.22:37
MohammadAGdpkg: status database area is locked by another process22:37
MohammadAGInstallation was successful!22:37
rtylersatmd: thanks for the tip :)22:37
tobis87VladNistor: That was hard work, but why does it fail after 40MB?22:39
VladNistori have no clue mate, maybe the connection droped :-?22:39
VladNistori had no notification area so couldn't confirm visually22:40
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tobis87VladNistor: But tcp has a timeout of 2h. I think it's this power saving stuff. Can't this get disabled in the driver wl1252?22:41
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tobis87or have at least an option in /proc/sys22:41
VladNistorit's happened to me quite often before i installed autodisconnect to get a wifi connection dropped22:41
VladNistornot as open as we'de like, is it?22:42
tobis87VladNistor: autodisconnect, why? the driver already does this. depends, there is source for wl1252, but i think it requires a binary blob.22:42
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Stskeepswl125122:43
Stskeeps:P22:43
VladNistori don't know, but i'd be surfing the web, reading a long page for example and 3-4 minutes later when i was done the connection was gone22:43
VladNistorwifi that is22:43
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tobis87Stskeeps: wl1251, yes i didn't wanted to start the n900. again, i had enough to fumble today already. did you test nfs? i mean the n900 already brings the nfs kernel module with it.22:46
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tobis87Stskeeps: can this be caused by the autodisconector? i also had slow speed with nfs over openvp.22:48
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tobis87Stskeep: Mounting with rsize=8192,wsize=8192 really does improve the speed, but how can it break after some time?22:49
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* ShadowJK wonders if skype on N810 is still "working"22:58
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homeasvsanyone know how I can further debug an /etc/init.d service that is not starting up for some reason ?23:09
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tobis87homeasvs: the files in /etc/init.d/ are scripts. you can open them in vim, if you know what it does, e. g. foo bar, you can run gdb foo and then enter start bar in gdb23:12
homeasvstobis87, the script runs fine when I run it as root by hand, but I'm wondering how I can debug why it doesn't start at boot time23:13
homeasvsthe headers look the same as some other scripts that do startup, the dependencies exist, ...23:13
homeasvsafaict there is no system log being written, so don't know where any startup errors would end up either...23:14
ShadowJKoh wow, I enabled Skype on N900, and enabled "Show my location", it's eating so much power now :)23:14
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jacktheripperapt-get dist-upgrade is spitting out this:23:16
jacktheripper  upstart: PreDepends: sysvinit-utils (>= 2.86.ds1-23) or23:16
mgedminhomeasvs, n900?23:16
jacktheripper                       busybox (>= 3:1.6.1.legal-1osso8) but it is not going to be installed23:16
tobis87homeasvs: the n900 does not use init.d, it uses upstart23:16
mgedminhomeasvs, it doesn't use /etc/init.d23:16
jacktheripperI have a newer busybox. Where's the problem ?23:16
mgedminhomeasvs, you need to write an (old-style) upstrart script in /etc/init/23:16
mgedminwait, or was it /etc/event.d/?23:17
GAN900ShadowJK, seems to be OK for me with rtcom location showing once it gets a fix.23:17
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mgedminone is old-style upstart, one is new-style upstart23:17
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homeasvsmgedmin, really ? ok, I'll check, I had no idea!23:18
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tobis87you even have to add an entry to event.d in order to load modules on boot23:18
keriojacktheripper: dist-upgrade is not meant to be used23:18
kerioby anyone23:19
kerioever23:19
kerioit's there for...23:19
keriowhy is dist-upgrade there?23:19
jacktheripperbut how can I upgrade hildon-desktop ?23:19
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ShadowJKEverybody is supposed to use the GUI :)23:19
kerioapt-get update23:19
kerioapt-get upgrade23:19
kerioduh23:19
jacktheripperit's listed with the 'kept back' packages23:19
mgedminjacktheripper, I'd say you have some repositories enabled that don't work properly for maemo23:20
jacktherippercould it be the community SSU's repo ?23:20
mgedmincan't say; I've never tried that one23:21
mgedminI could try it23:21
mgedmincan you paste the relevant deb line from /etc/apt-sources.d/?23:21
jacktheripperthe link is in #maemo-ssu23:21
jacktheripperthere's a .install file if you prefer it23:21
jacktheripperI'll paste the line now, sec23:21
jacktheripperdeb http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/repo  fremantle-1.2.1 free23:22
mgedminhm, maybe I should upgrade my n900 first23:22
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MohammadAGjacktheripper, you know... if I wanted to paste the line here in #maemo I wouldn't have made a channel for it23:27
jacktheripperuhh, he asked for it.23:28
MohammadAG:/23:28
jacktheripperand I don't know if the problem is coming from your repo. So I just asked here.23:29
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MohammadAGthe repo is not ready for the general public, how'd you get the link anyways?23:29
jacktheripper#maemo-ssu23:30
kerioLOL GUYS I'M TOTALLY ADDING THAT REPO WHAT COULD GO WRONG23:30
MohammadAGnothing23:30
MohammadAGthe only thing missing is a proper SSU package23:30
kerioso... it does nothing?23:30
keriono, wait, what does it upgrade?23:30
keriowill stuff be newer?23:31
MohammadAGwhich I'm working on atm, I just need the EU mp-fremantle-203-pr package23:31
MohammadAGuh, I thought you weren't a noob23:31
MohammadAGneed to rsync list of channels bah23:31
jacktheripperoh so I would better remove the repo until you're done with it ?23:31
MohammadAGIf I was done with it you'd see an announce thread...23:32
jacktheripperokay then. Sorry for all the noise.23:32
kerioomg new modest and new hildon-* stuff SQUEEEEEEEEEE~23:33
MohammadAGwell, since no one here cba to post the damn 203 package, I'll rip it out of the firmware package23:33
MohammadAGlazy arses :P23:33
MohammadAGor... I could drop support for EU users23:34
MohammadAGwho cares about those anyways :P23:34
kerioMohammadAG: i think anyone who's not using the generic one deserves it23:34
MohammadAGgeneric support is already there, you can upgrade23:34
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MohammadAG16 mins to download a damn file for a 16kb package23:35
MohammadAGhmm23:35
MohammadAGkerio, before you upgrade23:36
MohammadAGwhat version of modest does PR1.2 have?23:36
keriocba to check, playing transformice23:36
MohammadAGo_o23:36
kerioit's not like i use modest anyway23:36
* MohammadAG disables repo23:36
keriolol23:36
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kerioMohammadAG: not to be insulting, but i have no way to reflash as of now23:38
kerioand i like my n900 working23:38
kerio:323:38
mgedminMohammadAG, modest 3.2.13-3+0m523:38
kerioit's not that i don't trust you or anything23:38
MohammadAGI don't get a word you're saying, repo disabled for now23:38
MohammadAGmgedmin, ty23:38
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kerioMohammadAG: not using your repo now, probably will do that once the usb is fixed23:39
MohammadAGit's disabled23:40
MohammadAGhttp://mohammadag.xceleo.org/repo23:40
kerioi read that as mohammadawg, not sure hwy23:40
kerio*why23:40
jacktheripperusb is fixed ? is it broken ?23:40
keriomy microusb port is brok23:41
kerio:(23:41
jacktheripperheh, thought it's in the software23:41
jacktherippergood luck with that23:41
kerioit's not about luck23:41
kerioit's about bugging the nokia care enough to get an instant replacement23:41
kerio:D23:41
keriono downtime is the best downtime23:41
jacktheripperlol23:41
keriogetting it fixed is... meh23:42
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keriothe screen has minor problems, the internal battery sucks, the screen cover is all scratched, the red camera led is MIA23:43
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kerioit's only fair for nokia to provide me with a full replacement, right? :P23:43
tripzerodo we know what harmattan's package management format is?23:44
jacktheripperof course!23:44
mgedminI'm confused23:44
keriotripzero: it should be dpkg23:44
keriolast i heard23:44
tripzerowill still use autobuilder then?23:44
mgedminif I have bzr 2.0.2-0ubuntu1maemo0, and extras-devel has bzr 2.0.2-0ubuntu1maemo0 (same version!), why does apt-get want to upgrade bzr?23:44
* tripzero wonders how community packages will work23:44
Jaffatripzero: That's what's currently being discussed on meego-*23:45
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tripzerohopefully, some resources will be put around the meego public obs23:46
MohammadAGmgedmin, probably because you installed the one you have using dpkg, instead of the repos23:46
Jaffatripzero: See achipa & qgil's sub-thread on meego-community in the "Building apps which require proprietary code on the MeeGo OBS"23:46
mgedminMohammadAG, you're probably right -- I tested the deb before uploading it to extras23:47
mgedminI didn't know apt remembered such details23:47
keriorepo has priority over local23:48
mgedminapt is incredibly slow on the n90023:49
tripzeroflash is slow23:50
mgedminI wonder if rpm will be an improvement in this aspect23:50
tripzerodoubtful23:50
kerioapt is pretty fast here :|23:50
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MNZ* confirmed apt is fast, marking as wontfix23:51
kerioNOTABUG23:51
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tripzerohehe23:51
MNZ /sarcasm23:51
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GAN900mgedmin, probably hardware more than software.23:52
MohammadAG<mgedmin> I wonder if rpm will be an improvement in this aspect23:52
MohammadAGdownload fedora, chroot into it, try it23:53
MohammadAGyou'll facepalm immediately23:53
MNZwe should use yum23:53
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MNZI like making a sandwich before my packages start installing.23:53
MNZIt lets you relax you know? yummmm23:53
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tripzerozypper ftw23:54
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tobis87don't remember me on this rpm stuff, i had a hell of time using rpm with yum ~8 years ago.23:54
tripzeroi hear it's improved a bit in the last 8 years23:55
tripzerobut speed has only improved as computers have gotten faster during that time23:55
MNZI used yum sometimes last year, marking as NOTFUN23:55
tobis87yeah, but software improves  in general. why should i try to use a tool which i did not liked some years ago. if there are valid alternatives.23:56
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tobis87i like arch with pacman as well as deb of corse. But arch breaks too much stuff if you update.23:57
tobis87I think it Frugalware with LXDE is quiete nice, seen it a week ago on Distrowatch... Might give it a try, there will also be a new release this month.23:58
* mgedmin used red hat 5.4 a long time ago, before switching to Debian23:58
mgedminI had the impression rpm was faster than apt back then23:58
MNZmy fav package management was slackware's....23:58
mgedminbecause it tried to do less?23:58
mgedminbecause it had binary databases (that kept being corrupted) instead of plain text files that take ages to load?23:59
tobis87MNZ: I'm too young for slackware, never used it.23:59
MNZmgedmin, I'm not speaking of rpm itself, but yum....23:59

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