IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-06-21

flailingmonkey	I also noticed that I have a microSD card inserted, as does MohammadAG	00:00
*** plq has joined #maemo		00:00
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: did you mkdir /media/root?	00:00
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, <MohammadAG> mkdir /media/root && mound --bind / /media/root	00:00
*** MadViking has quit IRC		00:00
kW_	flailingmonkey: might, but then it would still be a bug in the vfs, somehwere	00:00
MohammadAG	flailingmonkey, he knows :P	00:00
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: I'm not a noob	00:00
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ^^^	00:00
DocScrutinizer	wfm	00:01
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: I was teasing :P	00:01
*** sepultina has quit IRC		00:02
kW_	DocScrutinizer: do you think it is feasible to relocate the mountpoint of the FAT32 partition to "/home/user/MyDocs/RealMyDocs"?	00:03
mece	MohammadAG, is it arabic btw?	00:03
*** type_t has joined #maemo		00:04
MohammadAG	mece, yeah	00:04
DocScrutinizer	kW_: most probably will break almost everything, see http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=mydocs	00:04
MohammadAG	kW_, that would cause more problems than solutions	00:04
kW_	DocScrutinizer: this way, I do not need to re-bind "/home/user/MyDocs/.maps" (which I do not want to store on the FAT32 partition, because FAT32 is inefficient with large directopries), and I can safeily re-bind "/home/user/MyDocs/root" to "/"	00:04
kW_	note that I have 19GB free on my root partition...	00:05
MohammadAG	uhuh	00:05
*** panaggio has joined #maemo		00:05
MohammadAG	<flailingmonkey> I also noticed that I have a microSD card inserted, as does MohammadAG	00:05
MohammadAG	http://i46.tinypic.com/vensbc.jpg	00:05
kW_	so what specifically would break?	00:05
type_t	any project working on .iSCSI .idisk WebDAV googleFS for distributed filesystem or peer-to-peer projects?	00:05
DocScrutinizer	kW_: [2010-06-20 22:55:08] <DocScrutinizer> kW_: try 'MYDOCSDIR=/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM ossofilemanager' ;-)	00:06
kW_	DocScrutinizer: I did	00:06
MohammadAG	if you didn't get an answer the first time it probably means no	00:06
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		00:06
MohammadAG	@ type_t	00:06
mece	MohammadAG, it looks so much nicer on screen than these letters. Handwritten like.	00:06
DocScrutinizer	you noticed HFM seems to use the fs-root of MYDOCSDIR?	00:06
kW_	DocScrutinizer: the result was that the only top-level directory was "MyDocs"	00:06
* lcuk finally kicks visual basic and calls it a wild piece of shite		00:07
kW_	and _not-_ "DCIM"	00:07
lcuk	ive actually found something in it i cant do!	00:07
DocScrutinizer	exactly	00:07
kW_	DocScrutinizer: so, this does not help, does it?	00:07
MohammadAG	<lcuk> ive actually found something in it i cant do!	00:08
MohammadAG	yay, party!	00:08
DocScrutinizer	no, but it strongly suggests your relocation will break more than you'd normally guess	00:08
flailingmonkey	lcuk: congrats	00:08
MohammadAG	mece, lol	00:08
eitama	Meh	00:08
eitama	Hello everyone.	00:08
mece	eitama, hi	00:08
* eitama waves		00:09
lcuk	MohammadAG, its taken 10 years	00:09
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:09
lcuk	but today i think it finally beat me	00:09
flailingmonkey	lcuk: what version of VB?	00:09
*** trem has quit IRC		00:09
lcuk	vb6	00:09
flailingmonkey	ahhh vb6	00:09
*** type_t has quit IRC		00:09
kW_	DocScrutinizer: but you do not know specificall what would break?	00:10
flailingmonkey	i got familiar with when doing maintenance on an app in VB6, then doing a VB6 to .NET migration.	00:10
* mece hasn't touched VB it since the 90's		00:10
MohammadAG	kW_, mate, it will probably render your device unbootable	00:10
DocScrutinizer	first libhildonfm2 will break I guess	00:10
kW_	MohammadAG: well, then I should try it :-)	00:10
flailingmonkey	the USB storage device export scripts probably would break	00:10
lcuk	flailingmonkey, i spent 9 years working with the damned thing, and still have a fucktonne of code in it - i just cant get this one piece working	00:11
MohammadAG	kW_, time the reflash please	00:11
DocScrutinizer	kW_: as your relocation is the same as MYDOCSDIR=/home/user ossofilemanager	00:11
eitama	Someone please tell me you know how to start a skype call from dbus / C++ / Qt code / terminal pelase please please	00:11
lcuk	accessing the live .picture data from the VBIDE addin subsystem whilst generating a c application from the form layouts	00:11
flailingmonkey	lcuk: what I learned what that it has a TON of behavior that typical CS types wouldn't expect, and a lot of those behvaiors changed in .NET too	00:11
MohammadAG	maybe you just can't :)	00:11
mece	MohammadAG, howcome you haven't voted on this: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/arabic-l10n/0.6/	00:12
MohammadAG	eitama, run dbus-monitor, see if there's a path for it	00:12
kW_	MohammadAG: no, I can boot from "rescue" mode and just undo the change	00:12
eitama	dbus monitor	00:12
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		00:12
eitama	hmm	00:12
eitama	i'll search around (:	00:12
eitama	thanks!!!	00:13
MohammadAG	dbus-monitor in terminal	00:13
MohammadAG	kW_, k	00:13
*** zap_ has quit IRC		00:13
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		00:14
kW_	DocScrutinizer: well.. not having rebootet yet, relocating MyDocs to MyDocs/RealMyDocs works so far... but ossofilemanager needs to be started as "MYDOCSDIR=/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM ossofilemanager", not as "MYDOCSDIR=/home/user/MyDocs ossofilemanager"	00:14
*** torchie has joined #maemo		00:14
silbo_____	is usleep in microseconds?	00:14
kW_	so you have to supply a _fake_ MYDOCSDIR to actually make the MYDOCSDIR accessible	00:14
kW_	weird, but works	00:14
DocScrutinizer	kW_: this actually works?	00:15
kW_	so far	00:15
kW_	now I should try to reboot :-)	00:15
DocScrutinizer	great	00:15
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC		00:15
flailingmonkey	kW_: it might prune the last dir even	00:15
MohammadAG	kW_, nah, just try too finish a reboot	00:15
MohammadAG	to*	00:16
DocScrutinizer	kW_: first edit some shellscript where MYDOCSDIR=/home/user/MyDocs is defined	00:16
*** apoirier has left #maemo		00:16
kW_	DocScrutinizer: I just did	00:16
kW_	now I'm rebooting	00:16
kW_	let's see	00:16
* MohammadAG ponders what userdel would do		00:16
DocScrutinizer	kW_: where is it? (MYDOCSDIR=/home/user/MyDocs)	00:16
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: try rm -rf /, it's shorter	00:17
MohammadAG	XD	00:17
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		00:17
*** njsf_1 has joined #maemo		00:17
*** njsf_1 is now known as njsf_		00:18
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		00:18
MohammadAG	someone steal a serial cable from a care center and mass reproduce it, please :)	00:18
DocScrutinizer	kW_: env\|less highly recommeded for lecture	00:18
*** trbs has quit IRC		00:18
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		00:19
Macer	hi	00:19
*** dvoid_ has quit IRC		00:19
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		00:19
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		00:20
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		00:20
* DocScrutinizer ponders where to smash in that "mount --bind / /media/root" line...		00:20
eitama	MohammadAG	00:20
eitama	I ran it	00:20
eitama	and pressed the skype call button right after it	00:20
eitama	10 pages of crap (:	00:21
kW_	well	00:21
DocScrutinizer	just 10?? feel blessed	00:21
eitama	lol	00:21
eitama	Really it's japanese to me	00:21
kW_	/dev/mmcblk0p1 was mounted to /home/user/MyDocs and not to /home/user/MyDocs/RealMyDocs	00:21
kW_	against the wish stated in /etc/fstab	00:21
kW_	I probably need to redefine INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT	00:22
DocScrutinizer	kW_: fstab is dynamically built on boot	00:22
MohammadAG	eitama, idk anything about dbus tbh	00:22
DocScrutinizer	aiui	00:22
MohammadAG	annoying POS ^	00:22
*** fcorrea has joined #maemo		00:22
kW_	DocScrutinizer: not on my system ;-)	00:22
MohammadAG	kW_, actually, it is :)	00:22
kW_	MohammadAG: actually, what is what?	00:23
DocScrutinizer	hmm, just stopping the new build of fstab doesn't mean it's actually used anywhere. You'd need a mount -a for that	00:23
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		00:23
*** njsf_1 has joined #maemo		00:23
*** njsf_1 is now known as njsf_		00:23
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		00:23
*** tg has quit IRC		00:23
MohammadAG	fstab is built on bootup	00:23
*** tg has joined #maemo		00:23
*** silbo_____ has quit IRC		00:23
*** smhar has joined #maemo		00:24
kW_	DocScrutinizer: well, "mount /dev/mmcblk0p1" would help, too	00:24
DocScrutinizer	kW_: I guess no grep will find any 'mount -a' in any /etc/* file	00:24
eitama	MohammadAG, it's never too late to learn?	00:24
DocScrutinizer	so you can as well smole your fstab in a pipe	00:24
kW_	MohammadAG: no, I explicitly changed the scripts to not rebuild /etc/fstab anymore	00:25
DocScrutinizer	smoke	00:25
*** ENTERANICK has joined #maemo		00:25
* ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:]		00:25
MohammadAG	eitama, good luck http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-tutorial.html	00:25
DocScrutinizer	hooray ENTERANICK is back again	00:26
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		00:26
*** njsf_1 has joined #maemo		00:26
*** njsf_1 is now known as njsf_		00:26
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		00:26
kW_	guys, it works :-)	00:26
kW_	I need to leave in 1 minute	00:26
kW_	plugging in the USB cable and making RealMyDocs visible on the computer works, too :-)	00:27
MohammadAG	minute's over	00:27
MohammadAG	Out you go	00:28
MohammadAG	:P	00:28
kW_	so changing MYDOCSDIR, changin INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT to another directory and creating this directory is enough	00:28
kW_	ciao :-)	00:28
*** theDevilDog has joined #maemo		00:28
MohammadAG	lol	00:28
kW_	no fear of unbootability :-)	00:28
*** hannesw has quit IRC		00:28
*** ENTERANICK has quit IRC		00:29
DocScrutinizer	kW_: great! :-)	00:29
kW_	ciao :-)	00:29
*** kW_ has quit IRC		00:29
DocScrutinizer	kW_: though I'd expect major surprise on using HAM next time	00:30
DocScrutinizer	INTERNAL_MMC_SWAP_LOCATION=/home/user/MyDocs	00:30
DocScrutinizer	OSSO_SWAP=/home/user/MyDocs	00:30
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, change settings so that it uses /var/cache/apt/archives	00:31
*** kkb110 has quit IRC		00:31
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: wrong approach	00:32
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, it's only a s/1/0/ :)	00:32
DocScrutinizer	http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=INTERNAL_MMC_SWAP_LOCATION&filter=[Ii]NTERNAL_MMC_SWAP_LOCATION	00:33
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		00:33
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		00:34
*** jasd has quit IRC		00:35
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC		00:36
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		00:36
*** njsf_1 has joined #maemo		00:36
*** njsf_1 is now known as njsf_		00:37
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		00:37
*** rd has quit IRC		00:37
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo		00:38
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		00:38
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		00:39
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		00:39
*** g55 has quit IRC		00:40
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, so just change 134 export INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT='/home/user/MyDocs'	00:41
MohammadAG	and you should be good to go	00:41
MohammadAG	this too if test "x$INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT" = "x"; then	00:41
MohammadAG	154 export MYDOCSDIR=$HOME/MyDocs	00:41
dotblank	MohammadAG, what happens if the phone is in mass storage mode?	00:42
DocScrutinizer	mhm, and what's with http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/ke-recv/src/ke-recv.c#1543	00:42
DocScrutinizer	for example	00:42
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:/media# cat /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh \| grep mmcblk0p1	00:43
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:/media# cat /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh \| grep MyDocs Nokia-N900:/media#	00:43
mece	I'm out. Toodles. And thanks for the help.	00:43
*** mece has quit IRC		00:43
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, nothing that's hardcoded I guess	00:43
DocScrutinizer	your guesses aren't quite assuring	00:44
MohammadAG	I know, they're very worrying :P	00:44
dotblank	MohammadAG, oh I ment if you set the mmc mountpoint in the MyDocs directory whilst the phone is in mass media mode	00:44
dotblank	mass storage*	00:44
dotblank	I would guess bad things	00:44
MohammadAG	dotblank, how would you even do that...	00:44
dotblank	MohammadAG, honestly no idea	00:45
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		00:45
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		00:45
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: or look at that: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=OSSO_SWAP&find=&findi=&filter=OSSO_SWAP&hitlimit=&tree=fremantle :-D	00:45
*** choppa_ has joined #maemo		00:45
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, not hardcoded, again :)	00:45
DocScrutinizer	proove it!	00:46
dotblank	MohammadAG, is there a way to use the g_file_storage kernel module to boot a computer with the usb cable?	00:46
MohammadAG	grep MyDocs in it	00:46
*** choppa has quit IRC		00:46
dotblank	In theory it should work...	00:46
MohammadAG	err, what's this got to do with it	00:46
DocScrutinizer	if (setenv("OSSO_SWAP", mmc->swap_location, 1)) looks damn hardcoded	00:46
*** davyg has quit IRC		00:46
*** g55 has joined #maemo		00:47
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, just change the variable and it's not hardcoded anymore	00:47
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: BS	00:47
MohammadAG	hmm	00:47
MohammadAG	err	00:47
MohammadAG	k, nvm	00:47
*** zaheer_ has joined #maemo		00:49
DocScrutinizer	btw the real problem is it's actually NOT hardcoded, but depends on object mmc	00:49
*** zaheerm has quit IRC		00:50
eitama	Good Night guys	00:51
DocScrutinizer	night	00:51
DocScrutinizer	time for my breakfast I guess	00:51
*** flailingmonkey has quit IRC		00:52
DocScrutinizer	guess it had to wait for me so long, it honestly could catch mold by now	00:53
*** benh has joined #maemo		00:54
crashanddie	I'm so fecking bored it's not even fun anymore	00:55
DocScrutinizer51	kick yourself for the thrill	00:56
SpeedEvil	You have the internet! There is so much fun and exciting stuff you could do! For example - http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/	00:56
crashanddie	yeah, so not going to happen SpeedEvil	00:56
SpeedEvil	Or http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html	00:56
*** dl9pf has quit IRC		00:57
*** Koriami has joined #maemo		00:59
Koriami	./me ha	00:59
* Koriami ha		00:59
*** Koriami has left #maemo		00:59
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo		00:59
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo		00:59
*** rcg has quit IRC		01:01
*** murrayc has quit IRC		01:02
*** angasule has joined #maemo		01:02
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		01:02
sp3000	3.5! a winner is me.	01:04
*** liori has quit IRC		01:05
*** theDevilDog has quit IRC		01:06
*** ZogG has quit IRC		01:09
*** ZogG has joined #maemo		01:10
*** Lullen has quit IRC		01:10
*** Lullen has joined #maemo		01:10
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		01:12
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC		01:14
*** wazd1 has quit IRC		01:16
*** angasule has quit IRC		01:17
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo		01:19
*** mindfaq has quit IRC		01:22
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC		01:23
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		01:25
*** KMFDM has quit IRC		01:25
GAN900	crashanddie, finish mwkn.net, yah bastard.	01:28
crashanddie	GAN900: I'm not working on something where I never get any feedback	01:28
*** panaggio has quit IRC		01:29
crashanddie	GAN900: I'm a challenge driven man, and if the 3 things that challenge me, integration with twitter, jquery and the algorithms for edition management are written, I can't be arsed to finish it up	01:29
crs	Hi guys. Can anyone tell me where are contacts stored on n900?	01:30
crashanddie	crs: on the n900	01:30
crs	Nice. How about path?	01:31
crashanddie	crs: what are you trying to achieve?	01:32
crashanddie	crs: why not simply use the API?	01:32
MohammadAG	ls /home/user/.osso-abook/db	01:32
MohammadAG	you'll find some files that might interest you	01:33
crs	I do have a lot contacts (some step of backing up from other device and importing to n900 caused that) with date of birth 31/01/2001. I would like to clear that field for those contacts.	01:33
*** MacMiller has joined #maemo		01:35
*** MacMiller has quit IRC		01:35
alterego	"In the computer?!?!?!?"	01:35
*** choppa_ has quit IRC		01:36
*** zs has quit IRC		01:37
*** trogdor has joined #maemo		01:38
GAN900	crashanddie, too bad.	01:39
GAN900	crashanddie, what if I dive into the CSS?	01:39
crashanddie	GAN900: hey, I've been asking people start working on it since I started on it	01:40
crashanddie	there is nothing that I hate more than working alone on a project	01:40
crashanddie	Watashi wa anata no keiyaku wa, ketsumatsu wa, to suisoku hiro sa re masu.	01:43
MohammadAG	agreed on that last bit	01:43
*** SunilGhai has quit IRC		01:44
*** luizirber has joined #maemo		01:44
crashanddie	MohammadAG: wa shiri o o okonau koto ga deki masu?	01:44
*** florian has quit IRC		01:44
MohammadAG	crashanddie, no	01:44
pahartik	MohammadAG: Maybe you know whether it causes problem for Maemo if one uses "ext2" instead of "vfat" for "/home/user/MyDocs/"?	01:45
crashanddie	wakara naku nari mashita	01:45
MohammadAG	sure sure, just meet me in france by the eiffel tower	01:46
MohammadAG	pahartik, no idea, sorry	01:46
crashanddie	MohammadAG: shame, you were making sense for a while.	01:47
MohammadAG	LOL	01:48
MohammadAG	crashanddie, what were you saying anyways :P	01:48
MohammadAG	~seen zaheem	01:50
infobot	i haven't seen 'zaheem', MohammadAG	01:50
*** Vanadis has quit IRC		01:51
Ken-Young	When I use gdb in scratchbox to examine a core file, it always seg faults - has anyone else seen that problem, and found a fix?	01:51
*** tekonive` has joined #maemo		01:51
*** tekonivel has quit IRC		01:51
crashanddie	first I was preaching, then you said "agreed on the last bit", then I asked "what? That I can do you up the arse?", to which you replied no. I then said I was confused, and you said we'd meet under the eiffel tower	01:51
crashanddie	~seen zaheerm	01:52
infobot	zaheerm <~zaheer@93-97-43-61.zone5.bethere.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 10h 49m 59s ago, saying: 'timeless_mbp, yep'.	01:52
*** pyther has joined #maemo		01:52
pyther	Hi all	01:52
MohammadAG	That I can do you up the arse?", to which you replied no. <-- LOL	01:53
pyther	I'm gonna buy a N900 and was wondering what accessories I might want to look at. Any suggestions?	01:53
MohammadAG	car battery modded with a USB cable	01:53
crashanddie	pyther: an iphone	01:53
MohammadAG	you might just get one day with it	01:53
pyther	crashanddie: not much interested in an iphone	01:54
crashanddie	actually I'm hitting my 3rd day on one charge	01:54
*** bunk has quit IRC		01:54
MohammadAG	crashanddie, you're special	01:54
MohammadAG	crashanddie, I use 4 batteries each day	01:54
MohammadAG	well, sometimes 3	01:55
crashanddie	MohammadAG: no, I live in a room where the electromagnetic current is so strong that batteries charge themselves	01:55
*** Free_maN has quit IRC		01:55
*** bunk has joined #maemo		01:55
crashanddie	that and I'm being paid by Nokia marketing to put in a good word every now and then	01:55
MohammadAG	<crashanddie> pyther: an iphone <-- uhuh	01:56
crashanddie	well, it's just that, an accessory :P	01:56
MohammadAG	lol	01:56
pyther	Nah I just mean is there anything that I might want to look at grabbing	01:56
crashanddie	pyther: screen protectors off the net	01:57
pyther	I got an Otter Box case/screen protector in my newegg cart	01:57
crashanddie	pyther: they seem pretty hot on the forums, never used/seen one.	01:57
pyther	Does anyone know if the N900 can charge via a simple/normal dc->usb charger?	01:57
crashanddie	pyther: I've lost all my styluses, so you may want to think about that too	01:57
crashanddie	pyther: not a "normal" charger, it requires some kind of "smart" charger IIRC, all these questions are answered by google and the wiki	01:58
pyther	crashanddie: so not with this? http://www.amazon.com/P002-Universal-USB-Charger-Adapter/dp/B000FAQ6S0/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_1	01:58
MohammadAG	soldering irons ftw http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38230	01:59
*** MasseR has joined #maemo		01:59
DocScrutinizer	I'm going to contaminate myself now -> http://www.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de/~hofmann/index_eng.html	02:00
pyther	MohammadAG: thanks for the link	02:00
pyther	Can anyone recommend a good smart-usb car charger?	02:01
MohammadAG	Nokia one I guess	02:01
MohammadAG	or,,,	02:01
MasseR	I've just a few hours ago downloaded scratchbox, and have been trying the examples foudn around the net. All the ui-elements are grey, what could be the cause? (http://imgur.com/13k4D.png)	02:01
MohammadAG	s/,/./	02:01
infobot	MohammadAG meant: or.,,	02:01
MohammadAG	damn bot...	02:01
pyther	:D	02:01
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: +g	02:02
FredrIQ	wouldn't that require s/foo/bar/g	02:02
FredrIQ	anyway?	02:02
FredrIQ	what he said	02:02
MohammadAG	http://i48.tinypic.com/2nh106r.jpg	02:02
DocScrutinizer	xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx	02:03
zash	yes!	02:03
DocScrutinizer	s/x/jkadhkDHJJHgDGHJ.........../G	02:03
DocScrutinizer	s/x/jkadhkDHJJHgDGHJ/G	02:03
DocScrutinizer	s/x/jkadhkDHJJHgDGHJ/G	02:03
DocScrutinizer	s/x/jkadhkDHJJHgDGHJ/g	02:03
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: s/jkadhkDHJJHgDGHJ/jkadhkDHJJHgDGHJ/G	02:03
DocScrutinizer	gnah	02:03
MohammadAG	xD	02:04
zash	what	02:04
DocScrutinizer	xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx	02:04
DocScrutinizer	s/x/jkadhkDHJJHgDGHJ/g	02:04
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: jkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGHJjkadhkDHJJHgDGH...	02:04
zash	foobar	02:04
MohammadAG	oh,,,	02:04
zash	s/oo/\n/	02:04
infobot	zash meant: f\nbar	02:04
MohammadAG	s/,/./g	02:04
infobot	MohammadAG meant: oh...	02:04
DocScrutinizer	damn capslock	02:04
zash	foobar	02:04
MohammadAG	I see	02:04
zash	s/oo/\\n/	02:04
infobot	zash meant: f\\nbar	02:04
MohammadAG	ty DocScrutinizer	02:04
zash	foobar	02:04
zash	s/\n/moo	02:04
zash	meh	02:04
zash	s/\n/moo/	02:05
MohammadAG	stop spamming :P	02:05
zash	whatever	02:05
*** ceyusa has quit IRC		02:05
DocScrutinizer	every 'special' char will make the regex fail	02:05
DocScrutinizer	s//what/	02:06
DocScrutinizer	s/^/what/	02:06
DocScrutinizer	it's a shame how poorly documented is that special feature if infobot	02:08
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie		02:09
*** DocScrutinizer was kicked by crashanddie (you're the poorly documented feature)		02:09
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie		02:09
Ken-Young	Wow, has the Good Doctor ever been absent from this channel before?	02:10
* MohammadAG stabs crashanddie		02:10
*** lopz has quit IRC		02:10
*** lopz has joined #maemo		02:12
pyther	What do you guys use for car chargers?	02:13
*** MasseR has left #maemo		02:13
MohammadAG	pyther, muhahaha <MohammadAG> http://i48.tinypic.com/2nh106r.jpg	02:13
MohammadAG	btw, that way the FMTX works	02:13
pyther	haha	02:13
MohammadAG	oh, and the car does act as a booster	02:13
MohammadAG	thus violating regulations	02:14
MohammadAG	but... I don't give a crap	02:14
*** benh has quit IRC		02:14
pyther	someone said this cable will do the trick http://www.amazon.com/Micro-Adapter-SKN6252-Alltel-Motorola/dp/B000IBLD3E	02:14
MohammadAG	crashanddie, someone's gonna be pissed	02:14
MohammadAG	not sure	02:14
crashanddie	who?	02:15
*** sheepbat has joined #maemo		02:15
GAN900	crashanddie, yeah, sorry.	02:16
GAN900	:(	02:16
crashanddie	wait, wut?	02:16
crashanddie	oh, you offering to work on the CSS?	02:16
crashanddie	Well, I'm on a UX expert. i just try shit until people scream "this is awesome"	02:17
crashanddie	can take a decade or two, before that actually happens	02:17
MohammadAG	crashanddie, DocScrutinizer, who else	02:18
*** puzzled has joined #maemo		02:18
crashanddie	who gives a shit about DocScrutinizer51?	02:18
*** plq has quit IRC		02:18
puzzled	hi	02:18
crashanddie	He's a grumpy old electronics engineer	02:19
*** ljp has joined #maemo		02:19
crashanddie	puzzled: ohayo yoi sa	02:19
puzzled	anyone know a way to make the Modest email client on a N900 with PR1.2 do client certificate authentication?	02:19
puzzled	crashanddie: evening :)	02:19
* MohammadAG hands crashanddie his pills		02:20
crashanddie	arigato	02:20
MohammadAG	you're welcome	02:20
*** dl9pf has quit IRC		02:20
puzzled	Modest doesn't send its client certificate when requested so I wonder if there is some magic gconf setting that I can flip to make it offer its client certificate	02:21
pyther	Anyone have any idea if this cable would work with the N900?	02:21
pyther	http://www.amazon.com/BlackBerry-DataSync-Charging-Cable-Micro/dp/B001UC9NOQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top	02:21
pyther	it states "DataSync and Charging Cable"	02:21
puzzled	pyhimys: looks good. afaik it's a standard usb <-> mini-usb (or was that micro-usb) cable	02:22
crashanddie	MohammadAG: anata wa amarini mo shinsetsu de yujin desu shitashii	02:22
puzzled	pyther: that was for you (sorry pyhimys)	02:22
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo		02:22
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo		02:22
pyther	puzzled: it was a micro, I'm hoping to use it with my cheapo car charger	02:22
crashanddie	pyther: dude, that cable comes with the n900	02:23
MohammadAG	crashanddie, what language is that? Arigato is japanese	02:23
crashanddie	MohammadAG: tashika ni	02:24
* lcuk thinks crashanddie has been playing pokemon today		02:24
MohammadAG	rofl	02:24
puzzled	pyther: cheap enough to try :) Make sure you sand of any "bumps" at the bottom side of the micro-usb connector or you will soon join the ranks of folks who pulled the female micoro-usb connector straight out of the N900 or break it	02:24
lcuk	puzzled, ive never sanded my bumps down o_O	02:25
puzzled	read the massive forum thread about the usb port breaking on the N900	02:25
crashanddie	actually, I had that question during a pubquizz last tuesday, lcuk, "What does Pikachu evolve into?", and secondly "What is the name of the yellow teletubby?"	02:25
lcuk	i know it can happen	02:25
lcuk	but its not guaranteed to	02:25
lcuk	and ive certainly had device for a long time now	02:25
pyther	lcuk: how can I sand them, sandpaper?	02:25
puzzled	my N900 has started to stop charging intermittently so I'm going to bring it to Nokia	02:26
lcuk	and i whack it in and out like nobodies business	02:26
crashanddie	pyther: I think that would be the ustensil used to sand stuff.	02:26
lcuk	pyther, i dont know!	02:26
puzzled	lcuk: then you're on of the lucky ones I guess	02:26
puzzled	one even	02:26
crashanddie	puzzled: never had any issues either	02:26
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie		02:26
lcuk	the only time ive ever broke a usb thing is on a device i dropped cable on and that wasnt a nokia even	02:26
lcuk	puzzled, not at all	02:26
*** crashanddie sets mode: +v infobot		02:26
puzzled	pyther: you can use one of those things women do their nails with	02:27
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie		02:27
crashanddie	puzzled: a file?	02:27
lcuk	theres thousands on thousands of people with perfectly fine devices	02:27
pyther	ah ok	02:27
lcuk	and a handful	02:27
puzzled	crashanddie: that's the word, thanks (not native English speaker)	02:27
crashanddie	puzzled: neither am I :)	02:27
lcuk	puzzled, its always the way	02:27
lcuk	the vocal minority	02:27
lcuk	you dont shout from rooftop "my device usb port works fine"	02:27
MohammadAG	crashanddie, this is racism, and sexism, why does infobot have voice and I don't	02:27
* lcuk does actually		02:28
barisione	is it known that the planet is probabile dead?	02:28
puzzled	if I look at the pictures of how the micro usb connector is attached to the pcb then, without any technical knowledge, tend to agree that it is a design flaw	02:28
crashanddie	MohammadAG: because your voice isn't worth hearing?	02:28
lcuk	barisione, i think its just sleeping for the weekend	02:28
* MohammadAG goes up to his roof and shouts		02:28
lcuk	X-Fade has been missing a bit this weekend	02:28
lcuk	so perhaps theres a blockage	02:28
MohammadAG	My device's USB port works fine!	02:28
lcuk	had a nice weekend barisione ?	02:29
puzzled	MohammadAG: is that you I hear faintly? :)	02:29
MohammadAG	lcuk, actually, the importer's been funny lately	02:29
* lcuk submitted your patch for testers tomorrow		02:29
crashanddie	barisione: this may help answer your question: http://www.hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/	02:29
puzzled	lol	02:29
puzzled	didn't know domains could have that much chars	02:29
MohammadAG	LOL crashanddie	02:29
FauxFaux	63.	02:30
barisione	crashanddie: I meant another planet, the maemo one and not the earth one ;)	02:30
crashanddie	barisione: ah, my bad	02:30
barisione	lcuk: yes, and now it's time to bed	02:30
barisione	night all	02:30
crashanddie	night	02:30
MohammadAG	crashanddie, how would that get updated if it does destroy the world	02:30
lcuk	cya in the morning marco	02:30
MohammadAG	nn barisione	02:30
crashanddie	MohammadAG: well, I think you just answered your own question	02:31
crashanddie	MohammadAG: if the planet is destroyed, serving dynamic pages should be your last problem	02:31
MohammadAG	crashanddie, nope, UFOs have ethernet nowadays so they need to check on this planet's status	02:31
barisione	MohammadAG: you are missing the funny part of the page :)	02:31
MohammadAG	the source code	02:32
MohammadAG	<script type="text/javascript">	02:32
MohammadAG	if (!(typeof worldHasEnded == "undefined")) {	02:32
MohammadAG	document.write("YUP.");	02:32
MohammadAG	} else {	02:32
MohammadAG	document.write("NOPE.");	02:32
MohammadAG	}	02:32
MohammadAG	ROFL <!-- if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated	02:32
MohammadAG	please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund -->	02:32
SpeedEvil	puzzled: What do you mean - design flaw?	02:33
*** DrIDK has quit IRC		02:33
crashanddie	tell that to the W3C, they still have to finalise the IPITP standard (InterPlanetary Internet Transfer Protocol), I mean, seriously, how is wide-fi supposed to work if the specs aren't approved?	02:34
*** dl9pf has quit IRC		02:34
crashanddie	And what, every browser will just implement their own solution, trying to elbow all the others out of the room, just like in the crappy HTML5 days? Man, that was over 3 million years ago!	02:34
* crashanddie wonders if the stuff we're fighting so fiercely for, and are so vocal about will matter in say, 10 years, 100 years, 2000 years...		02:35
MohammadAG	nope, IE will still stuck	02:36
MohammadAG	suck*	02:36
puzzled	SpeedEvil: the way the connector is attached to the board seems rather fragile. combined with the rather sturdy way that the connecter is attached seems (according to folks in the forum thread) to result in pulling the connector straight from the board when removing the cable's connector	02:36
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo		02:36
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo		02:36
crashanddie	What will be remembered? The Open Source communities that were trying to build a better computing world, or the massive oil spill in the gulf of mexico?	02:36
SpeedEvil	puzzled: The attachment is completely standard in the industry	02:36
puzzled	then why are people reporting the complete removal of the board's connector? shouldn't it just stay on?	02:37
puzzled	that just should not happen	02:37
crashanddie	puzzled: how many people are reporting problems?	02:37
crashanddie	10? 50? 100?	02:37
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: I was amused at reading 'time did not begin, as is taught in many programming classes at the dawn of the space age, when man first went to the moon' (in some SF novel)	02:37
crashanddie	how many N900s have been sold?	02:37
SpeedEvil	puzzled: It is a completely standard design - that happens if the connecor is forced. (or there is a manufacturing defect)	02:38
puzzled	crashanddie: I don't know tbh. this was a problem with preproduction models which Nokia said was solved in production models but reports are still coming in	02:38
crashanddie	puzzled: I have a pre-prod model, no issue at all	02:38
crashanddie	maybe fat-fingered lumberjacks need to be more careful with their hardware?	02:38
puzzled	and my N900 stops charging intermittently which from reading that forum thread is also a sign of a failing board connector	02:39
puzzled	agree but I have treated my N900 with the upmost care	02:39
*** benh has joined #maemo		02:39
puzzled	for a phone in that prive range crap like that should just not happen	02:39
puzzled	price even	02:39
SpeedEvil	There is no other standard connector for microUSB.	02:40
crashanddie	shit happens, there's always faults, return it to nokia, the price you paid included a warranty	02:40
SpeedEvil	Nobody makes them.	02:40
lcuk	im thankful the usb cable on my n900 isnt so long	02:40
SpeedEvil	That is - a board secured variant	02:40
lcuk	its fallen off desk a few times to just swing there	02:40
lcuk	bet if it hit the ground it would hurt tho	02:40
crashanddie	lcuk: aye	02:40
puzzled	crashanddie: planning to do that. there were reports that warranty claims were refused. after a piece on Engadget some Nokia guy responded publicly that issues with the usb connector would be honored (within warranty limitations off course)	02:41
crashanddie	puzzled: btw, this is a maemo channel, not a nokia customer service venting outlet	02:42
* puzzled nods		02:42
pyther	How long does it take for the N900 to detect a single?	02:42
SpeedEvil	pyther: a single what?	02:43
SpeedEvil	Beyonce - Crazy in love?	02:43
pyther	*signal	02:43
SpeedEvil	ah	02:43
SpeedEvil	What sort of signal?	02:43
crashanddie	I mean, I feel for you, and all of those who had bad luck with the usb socket, but there really isn't anything we can do on our end	02:43
asj	I suspect it detects a single blow from a hammer pretty quick	02:43
pyther	SpeedEvil: cell signal	02:43
pyther	I'm in an area where coverage is spotty	02:43
SpeedEvil	pyther: a few seconds	02:44
pyther	ahh ok cool	02:44
pyther	had a phone that would take 5 minutes	02:44
crashanddie	asj: apparently, there's a special feature that will make the N900 cry "OK, OK, I'll do multi touch now" if you hit the screen with a sledgehammer	02:44
asj	crashanddie: I look forward to the youtube video	02:44
crashanddie	asj: could make a good follow-up to "will it blend"	02:45
asj	I want to see the N8 on will it blend	02:45
SpeedEvil	I suggested the n900.	02:45
asj	the n900 has a lot of plastic, where as the n8 has a glass screen and alum body (except for the endcaps)	02:46
SpeedEvil	Thin glass shatters immediately when hit at speed	02:47
SpeedEvil	The n900 also has a glass screen	02:47
*** svu has quit IRC		02:47
asj	with plastic bonding it together...might be interesting	02:48
*** millenomi has quit IRC		02:50
*** oilgame has quit IRC		02:51
*** FredrIQ has quit IRC		03:00
*** jonne\|reconnecte has joined #maemo		03:01
*** jonne has quit IRC		03:04
*** HtheB has joined #maemo		03:07
HtheB	anyone is following WC 2010?	03:07
HtheB	does anyone follow the WC2010*	03:08
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		03:08
HtheB	????	03:08
HtheB	lol, everybody is sleeping	03:09
GAN900	Stupid happy hour	03:09
pyther	Just ordered a N900 :D	03:10
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		03:12
mhmh	I want the phone back.. shipped it on service 12days ago :/	03:12
pyther	Now I won't be able to wait to get my hands on mine!	03:13
*** HtheB has quit IRC		03:13
pyther	Probably won't get it till Wed	03:14
*** HtheB has joined #maemo		03:14
Ken-Young	pyther, Glad to hear it - welcome to the club!	03:15
pyther	Ken-Young: thanks!	03:15
SpeedEvil	Is there a nice installable package for powertop?	03:18
*** jerhum has quit IRC		03:19
HtheB	GAN900,	03:21
HtheB	u want happy ending?	03:21
HtheB	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btheeIEDIrE	03:22
HtheB	happy ending!	03:22
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo		03:23
ohwhyme	so ive tried a tracker-processes -r and tracker-processes --hard-reset and the mediaplayer wont index my music files	03:24
ohwhyme	anyone have any ideas on what to do next	03:24
HtheB	idonno	03:25
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, should one be available?	03:27
HtheB	no	03:27
HtheB	two	03:27
GAN900	HtheB, too much wine at the restaurant.	03:27
HtheB	DocScrutinizer51, Happy ending!	03:28
HtheB	:D	03:28
HtheB	did anyone saw England vs USA?	03:28
ohwhyme	yea	03:28
ohwhyme	me	03:28
MohammadAG	HtheB, you really want to get kicked don't you	03:28
HtheB	http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/1003731/d3031775/herstel_keeper_engeland_maakte_geen_blunder.html	03:28
HtheB	thats what happened!	03:29
*** rcampbell has joined #maemo		03:29
asj	SpeedEvil: I thought so...I have (had?) it installed on my phone and didn't do anything special	03:30
HtheB	check the link ohwhyme	03:30
HtheB	:D	03:30
*** lopz has quit IRC		03:31
ohwhyme	denmark vs cameroon was the best game so far	03:32
HtheB	ohwhyme, did u check the link or not? :p	03:33
SpeedEvil	asj: if you'd OTA'd since PR1 - then it'll be there	03:33
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: Ideally, yes	03:33
ohwhyme	yea i did	03:33
HtheB	lol save :p	03:33
pyther	What does 768MB of "virtual" ram mean?	03:33
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/ - someone tried, and failed	03:33
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, k, I'm bored anyways	03:33
SpeedEvil	pyther: swap	03:33
pyther	is it swap that rus from the SSD?	03:33
SpeedEvil	yes	03:33
pyther	so it should be faster than a hard drive based swap, correct?	03:34
SpeedEvil	pyther: In some ways yes, in many ways no.	03:34
MohammadAG	err	03:35
MohammadAG	perf.c: In function 'sys_perf_event_open':	03:35
MohammadAG	perf.c:68: error: '__NR_perf_event_open' undeclared (first use in this function)	03:35
MohammadAG	perf.c:68: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once	03:35
MohammadAG	perf.c:68: error: for each function it appears in.)	03:35
*** fcorrea has quit IRC		03:35
HtheB	ohwhyme, its the vuvuzela	03:35
HtheB	that lets the players sux	03:36
ohwhyme	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B2LPxggvqY&feature=player_embedded	03:36
HtheB	yup	03:36
HtheB	saw it	03:36
HtheB	its on #1 at the moment	03:36
HtheB	on the site i gave u	03:36
HtheB	:p	03:36
asj	SpeedEvil: ah, nm then	03:36
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, any idea what perf is? or if it's even needed	03:36
SpeedEvil	nope	03:37
SpeedEvil	I've never looked at the source of powerotp	03:38
SpeedEvil	I note that powertop is not the lesswats.org one	03:38
ShadowJK	oh is source for nokia powertop available?	03:41
MohammadAG	not on the SDK repos	03:43
SpeedEvil	I have plans to replace nokia powertop	03:44
SpeedEvil	But much of my sourcecode is scrawled on post-it-notes.	03:44
MohammadAG	hey that worked	03:44
MohammadAG	I used the lenny source	03:44
SpeedEvil	is that the one from lesswatts?	03:44
ShadowJK	probably	03:45
SpeedEvil	The non-nokia one doesn't give nearly as much hardware info unfortunately	03:45
ShadowJK	well lesswatts.org is basically intel	03:45
SpeedEvil	yes	03:45
GAN900	I suppose when that Missteps post hits 100 thanks I'm officially a whore?	03:46
SpeedEvil	:)	03:46
MohammadAG	<SpeedEvil> The non-nokia one doesn't give nearly as much hardware info unfortunately	03:46
MohammadAG	and where is the nokia one?	03:46
SpeedEvil	GAN900: As much as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB6ZaWS5x14	03:47
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: nokia!	03:47
* SpeedEvil has no clue.		03:47
SpeedEvil	Maybe ShadowJK might know who to poke	03:47
MohammadAG	ok... so is there a binary?	03:47
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		03:47
MohammadAG	I could make a non-free package	03:47
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo		03:47
MohammadAG	wb DocScrutinizer	03:48
SpeedEvil	http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=634362	03:48
*** z4chh has quit IRC		03:52
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, suggest a section http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging#Sections	03:52
MohammadAG	I'd say user/system	03:53
DocScrutinizer	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333#post491333	03:53
MohammadAG	yeah DocScrutinizer, already got it and making a non-free package	03:53
SpeedEvil	Isn't it more development?	03:55
MohammadAG	development it is	03:56
DocScrutinizer	special	03:57
*** sar3th is now known as sar3th\|away		03:59
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, any ideas if it depends on anything?	03:59
MohammadAG	and should I include an icon for it?	04:00
pyther	How does koffice work with view word documents?	04:00
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: the above is just a binary I think	04:00
MohammadAG	I know	04:01
MohammadAG	I already have a package	04:01
SpeedEvil	ldd /usr/local/bin/powertop	04:01
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC		04:01
SpeedEvil	libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x40030000)	04:01
SpeedEvil	libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40042000)	04:01
SpeedEvil	/lib/ld-linux.so.3 (0x40000000)	04:01
SpeedEvil	I think that means no?	04:01
MohammadAG	I guess those are built in	04:01
MohammadAG	afaik	04:01
SpeedEvil	Or rather - that if your phone dosn't have those, it's not really gonna matter :)	04:01
MohammadAG	heh	04:01
* GAN900 hopes Docs gets fixed before mwkn has to go up.		04:02
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, does it need to be run as root?	04:04
*** th3_4zarado has joined #maemo		04:06
SpeedEvil	yes	04:07
MohammadAG	meh, so I need a sudoers entry	04:08
SpeedEvil	In practice, it's going to be mostly useless run from the UI	04:08
SpeedEvil	It needs to be run over ssh	04:08
MohammadAG	_needs_?	04:09
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo		04:09
SpeedEvil	needs is perhaps strong	04:10
SpeedEvil	But for example running with the screen unblanked reports 4% CPU use, and 70 wakeups/s, vs 0.2% and 20/sec	04:10
SpeedEvil	It's probably sane to have it do that though	04:11
SpeedEvil	startable through the UI - if you can also ssh to it.	04:11
*** luizirber has quit IRC		04:11
SpeedEvil	Or run it in xterm, and blank the screen.	04:11
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/QA_checklist#Testing_software	04:12
SpeedEvil	There is probably a better explanation somewhere that I missed - I just wrote that	04:12
pyther	Is it possible to set a ring schedule where maybe from 9:00am-12:00pm the phone is on vibrate and then the rest of the day it is on ring?	04:13
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/powertop_1.0_armel.deb	04:13
GAN900	pyther, short answer is yes	04:13
*** akeripper has quit IRC		04:13
*** akeripper has joined #maemo		04:14
pyther	GAN900: is there a guide or something on the maemo website? (I don't have the phone up) and a search failed me	04:14
GAN900	pyther, long answer is that I'm not sure of anything available that makes it simple.	04:14
*** angasule has joined #maemo		04:14
MohammadAG	alarmed does	04:15
asj	pyther: ses does it too	04:20
asj	pyther: rather I should say, System Event Scheduler does exactly that and it works fine	04:20
pyther	asj: and that is shipped by default?	04:21
asj	(of course it's in extras-devel)	04:21
*** Ikarus has quit IRC		04:21
asj	pyther: of course not...but not much ships as default, that's what extras is for (and -testing and -devel)	04:21
*** mardi has joined #maemo		04:23
pyther	Is extra-devel as dangerous as the wiki makes it sound?	04:25
FauxFaux	Yes and no.	04:25
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		04:26
*** HtheB has quit IRC		04:27
pyther	Is there a nice easy way to view the extra-devel repo?	04:30
MohammadAG	Xarchiver updated, if anyone gives a crap	04:34
*** fcorrea has joined #maemo		04:37
DocScrutinizer	how would I catch a look to a kernel oops printout?	04:37
DocScrutinizer	is there any way to redirect the kernel console, or otherwise get the kernel log after reboot?	04:38
*** cure` has quit IRC		04:38
MohammadAG	sysklogd	04:38
DocScrutinizer	doesn't install on 'your' kernel. Some weird a needs b needs c needs a	04:39
*** eMHa has quit IRC		04:40
DocScrutinizer	sysklogd: Depends: klogd but it is not going to be installed or	04:42
DocScrutinizer	linux-kernel-log-daemon	04:42
DocScrutinizer	(sic!)	04:42
ohwhyme	how's the usb otg coming along?	04:42
DocScrutinizer	WC holiday	04:42
ohwhyme	:D	04:43
DocScrutinizer	apt-get install klogd	04:44
DocScrutinizer	The following packages have unmet dependencies:	04:44
DocScrutinizer	klogd: Depends: sysklogd but it is not going to be installed or	04:44
DocScrutinizer	system-log-daemon	04:44
MohammadAG	<DocScrutinizer> WC holiday LOL	04:45
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: oopses are in /proc/mtdn	04:45
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, it installs fine here, enable -devel	04:45
*** Snaht10 has joined #maemo		04:46
DocScrutinizer	apt-get install system-log-daemon	04:46
DocScrutinizer	Note, selecting sysklogd instead of system-log-daemon	04:46
DocScrutinizer	sysklogd: Depends: klogd but it is not going to be installed or	04:47
DocScrutinizer	linux-kernel-log-daemon	04:47
MohammadAG	lol	04:47
MohammadAG	apt-get install sysklogd klogd	04:47
ham5	installed fine for me just now	04:48
*** woodong50__ has joined #maemo		04:49
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: seems this time it only dropped the usual unmet deps	04:49
DocScrutinizer	mp-fremantle-generic-pr: Depends: kernel-modules (= 2.6.28-20094803.3+0m5) but 2.6.28-20101501+0m5 is to be installed	04:49
DocScrutinizer	Depends: kernel (= 2.6.28-20094803.3+0m5) but 2.6.28-20101501+0m5 is to be installed	04:49
DocScrutinizer	Depends: kernel-flasher (= 2.6.28-20094803.3+0m5) but 2.6.28-20101501+0m5 is to be installed	04:49
*** Snaht10 has quit IRC		04:49
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, OMG OMG OMG, you broke it!	04:49
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, umm. seriously, PR1.1.1?	04:50
DocScrutinizer	YOUR kernel broke it ;-P	04:50
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		04:50
MohammadAG	MY kernel is for 1.2, YOUR on the older version :P	04:50
MohammadAG	you're*	04:50
DocScrutinizer	nope, that's your kernel and modules running fine on a 1.1.1 environment	04:50
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, and didn't I give you great packages?	04:50
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, yes, but the SSU package is 'braindamaged'	04:51
MohammadAG	err	04:51
DocScrutinizer	I see	04:51
MohammadAG	s/great/updated/	04:51
MohammadAG	idk why I said that...	04:51
DocScrutinizer	anyway lemme check if sysklogd is there now. Ummm how'd I do that, btw? reboot	04:52
DocScrutinizer	?	04:52
MohammadAG	do what?	04:52
DocScrutinizer	start klogd	04:52
MohammadAG	oh	04:52
MohammadAG	I think so, or start sysklogd	04:53
DocScrutinizer	start: Unknown job: sysklogd	04:53
pyther	Any good sites that feature apps for maemo?	04:53
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, did you install it?	04:53
MohammadAG	pyther, yeah, maemo.org	04:54
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: >:-( HOW DO I KNOW?	04:54
*** celesteh has quit IRC		04:57
*** woodong50__ has quit IRC		05:01
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		05:05
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		05:06
MohammadAG	Night peeps	05:08
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		05:10
*** shinkamui has joined #maemo		05:17
DocScrutinizer	<SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: oopses are in /proc/mtdn	05:19
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ??	05:19
DocScrutinizer	klogd failed epically on writing back even the last line that was displayed by a tail -f /var/log/syslog	05:20
DocScrutinizer	prior to the kernel crash	05:20
*** kamui has quit IRC		05:21
*** gaveen has quit IRC		05:23
DocScrutinizer	there's just /proc/mtd and the content of that one is rather sysinfo than any log	05:23
*** lopz has joined #maemo		05:24
DocScrutinizer	oooo k	05:25
*** kenya888 has joined #maemo		05:26
DocScrutinizer	why I'm not surprised? X-P	05:29
DocScrutinizer	[128769.325012] Process hald-addon-bme (pid: 858, stack limit = 0xce3a62e0)	05:29
DocScrutinizer	[128769.325042] Stack: (0xce3a7ea0 to 0xce3a8000)	05:29
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:34
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:35
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:35
*** gaveen has joined #maemo		05:35
*** flailingmonkey has joined #maemo		05:37
*** g55 has quit IRC		05:38
*** g55 has joined #maemo		05:45
*** hcm has joined #maemo		05:52
*** hcm_ has quit IRC		05:55
*** angasule has quit IRC		05:57
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		06:00
*** dockane_ has joined #maemo		06:00
Macer	is it me or after 1.2 does microb seem to work like crap?	06:00
asj	Macer: it's you	06:01
*** z4chh has joined #maemo		06:01
*** th3_4zarado has quit IRC		06:01
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC		06:02
asj	Macer: I beleive it turns off javascript timers after X many seconds by default now, perhaps that's causing you issues?	06:02
*** dockane has quit IRC		06:03
Macer	maybe. seems slow though	06:04
Macer	and randomly crashes when typing in an address in the bookmark startup screen	06:04
*** radic__ has joined #maemo		06:08
asj	Macer: have not seen that	06:08
*** radic_ has quit IRC		06:09
DocScrutinizer	Macer: I hope you're not using a device that had been overclocked formerly (or even now)	06:10
*** kenya888 has quit IRC		06:10
pigeon	weird, now my wifi adhoc stopped working with my n900 :(	06:10
*** zaheer_ has quit IRC		06:11
*** zaheer_ has joined #maemo		06:12
*** kthomas has quit IRC		06:16
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		06:17
*** Sargun has quit IRC		06:18
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		06:20
flailingmonkey	a friend with an N900 seems to think adhoc isn't stable. might have been trying to start a network rather than join one	06:24
pigeon	hmm	06:24
pigeon	the "WEP" on the n900, what is it actually?	06:24
pigeon	like, under network manager on linux, there's 40bit and 128bit WEP.	06:25
pyther	pigeon: it is a type of wireless encryption	06:25
pigeon	hmm, so which one should i choose on the other end?	06:26
pyther	well that would depend what wireless encryption your network is using	06:26
pyther	wpa/wpa2 is probably pretty common these days	06:26
pigeon	so the n900 will work it out?	06:26
pigeon	as in, between 40bit or 128bit key	06:26
pigeon	wpa/wpa2 doesn't work with ah hoc though i thought	06:27
pigeon	or at least not on the n900	06:27
*** rodarvus_ is now known as rodarvus		06:28
*** rodarvus has joined #maemo		06:28
pigeon	or, at least, not from its gui...	06:28
pyther	I'm not very familar with ad-hoc networks, sorry	06:28
*** N900bastard has joined #maemo		06:30
N900bastard	there any programers in this channel?	06:30
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC		06:30
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo		06:30
*** slyfox has joined #maemo		06:30
pigeon	any programmers?	06:32
N900bastard	yeah...maemo programers	06:33
flailingmonkey	yeah, they're all asleep	06:33
Ken-Young	pigeon, I'm sorta a programmer...	06:33
flailingmonkey	many in the european timezones	06:33
N900bastard	just wanted to ask why most n900 apps suck balls compared to android	06:33
pigeon	well, i'm a programmer too, but not (yet) a maemo programmer	06:34
Ken-Young	N900bastard, They don't suck balls, they simply take an IQ greater than 70 0 to appreciate.	06:35
pyther	:D	06:35
N900bastard	Ken-Young: you familiar with android?	06:35
Ken-Young	You betcha - I've got an ANdroid phone.	06:36
Ken-Young	I stopped downloading fart apps after number 600.	06:36
N900bastard	then u know what i'm saying?	06:36
N900bastard	funny how all you nokia lovers always bring up the same "fart app" argument - fucking weak	06:36
*** Erod has quit IRC		06:36
asj	N900bastard: bored yet?	06:38
Ken-Young	Yes, the ANdroid market place has a spectacular selection of fart and celebrity soundboard apps. Countless Sudoku and bejewelled clones. Gosh, I'm weeping with jealousy.	06:38
flailingmonkey	N900bastard: what are your most important android apps? perhaps then we will know what specific deficiences must be addressed	06:38
flailingmonkey	please note, I am not defending current selection. but broad generalities are wasted bytes	06:39
* puzzled pitches support for client certificate authentication in Modest		06:39
N900bastard	i dont have android phone but i was playing with one and man they wipe the floor with maemo	06:39
pyther	N900bastard: you do know you can put Andriod on your N900 if you feel so inclined	06:40
N900bastard	pyther: i know	06:40
Ken-Young	And Apple wipes the floor with Android, if apps are your method of judging.	06:40
N900bastard	i guess it dont really matter since nokia is shutting maemo down	06:40
pigeon	N900bastard: i'm sure there are apps on android that the n900 hasn't got, but what app(s) in particular?	06:40
flailingmonkey	puzzled: indeed, a lot of isses would be better addressed by improving the core apps in maemo 5, rather than a whole new one	06:41
Ken-Young	N900bastard, On that I can agree with you.	06:41
N900bastard	pigeon: i cant really tell you -the selection is just better it seems	06:41
pyther	N900bastard: I ordered a N900 today because it is going to give me control, maemo is 100% open and from what I am able to tell very open to modifications	06:41
pyther	Andriod likely not as much	06:42
pyther	I love that fact I'll be able to ssh into my boxes from my phone	06:42
N900bastard	pyther: i love my n900 - best freaking phone out there	06:42
N900bastard	is there an app for ssh on n900?	06:42
Ken-Young	N900bastard, If you love your N900, write an app for it!	06:42
N900bastard	cause i was fucking around with ssh the other day on my n900 but couldnt get this shit to work, too much geek talk	06:43
asj	N900bastard: an app for ssh? really? you have to ask?	06:43
pyther	N900bastard: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/openssh-client/	06:43
pigeon	on that note, i was extremely disappointed that there isn't a free ssh client on the apple app store.	06:43
*** digitalsurgeon has quit IRC		06:43
N900bastard	pyther: thanks - i tried it just seems like a half assed effort	06:44
pigeon	without jail breaking the device that is...	06:44
flailingmonkey	pigeon: i wonder if it would get accepted	06:44
asj	N900bastard: lol :)	06:44
flailingmonkey	for maemo devices, Ovi store is like a lemonade stand.	06:45
N900bastard	this is what i mean....other os have polished apps.... maemo has half assed shit designed for geeks	06:45
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		06:45
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		06:45
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		06:45
pigeon	flailingmonkey: and i ended up paying one for about $2, and it doesn't support ansi color properly :(	06:45
pyther	noob question but what are maemo apps developed in (language; python, c, c++, etc...)	06:45
pyther	or does that depend on the program?	06:45
flailingmonkey	extras is another distribution path, but it won't draw proprietary apps	06:45
pigeon	actually, s/properly// :)	06:45
puzzled	N900bastard: the phone is aimed at geeks...	06:45
asj	N900bastard: you want to ssh somewhere and you're complaining about opening a terminal and sshing there....? really?</fuel troll>	06:46
N900bastard	geeks talk about this linux shit in their pockets as if it was the second coming of messiah....fuck linux i say	06:46
*** merlin_phone has joined #maemo		06:46
flailingmonkey	pyther: maemo apps have been GTK+ apps written to use the hildon interface, and now the platform is moving to Qt	06:46
pigeon	i bet someone here can write a frontend to ssh in no time...	06:47
flailingmonkey	both in C++, but there are python bindings	06:47
N900bastard	flailingmonkey: and next year the platform will move to something else... thats the problem with nokia	06:47
N900bastard	they not consistent	06:47
Ken-Young	No, they can be counted on to abandon us.	06:48
pyther	flailingmonkey: ahh ok, maybe I'll learn some c++ and write some ssh sync code for conboy (tomboy clone)	06:48
puzzled	Ken-Young: as long as they release a good meego image for N900 it's ok with me	06:49
Ken-Young	puzzled, I agree. I'm not optimistic about that though.	06:50
N900bastard	full of lies they are	06:50
puzzled	neither am I. but if they do they will probably piss of a lot of devs which is not good for their eco system	06:51
asj	why can't the community do a meego image? ;)	06:51
puzzled	asj: sure, if Nokia provides the closed parts in an ongoing effort I don't see why not. It's just another distro	06:52
N900bastard	asj: fuck the community image.....i want official shit for my n900	06:52
asj	puzzled: meego should be tad more open which may help	06:53
N900bastard	i dont want hacked os on my phone	06:53
flailingmonkey	the thing is, they are paying people to get meego (and harmattan) working on N900	06:53
* puzzled watches the clueless meter run straight of the scale		06:54
N900bastard	flailingmonkey: where did u hear that?	06:54
flailingmonkey	they aren't just asking people to put the pieces together. but they aren't committing to having Nokia Care people walk users through the install, etc	06:54
N900bastard	last i heard was nokia killing maemo	06:54
flailingmonkey	directly from the people working on the project	06:54
asj	flailingmonkey: I would like to see it :)	06:55
N900bastard	there's been so many conflicting stories from nokia.... dont know who to trust	06:55
flailingmonkey	it's coming. there is culture clash inside Nokia, which is why they can't talk details in public or they risk getting fired	06:56
flailingmonkey	as for the move to Qt, that was coming a long time. before that it was always GTK+	06:56
flailingmonkey	the major abandonment issue was new OS releases on the previous hardware generation	06:57
puzzled	flailingmonkey: maybe they should have put the effort in a skunkworks project out of sight of "old school" influences and opinion	06:57
N900bastard	and thats what i'm afraid will happen to n900...abandoment...hope i'm wrong	06:57
flailingmonkey	they already have meego running on the N900, which is a looot more than could be said of previous NITs	07:00
*** merlin_phone has quit IRC		07:01
pyther	What is meego? <=== sorry for the noob question	07:01
flailingmonkey	~meego	07:01
pigeon	does anyone know how i can change the incoming server (imap) address for an e-mail account in modest without deleting it first? the fields is grey out in the options for whatever reason...	07:01
puzzled	http://meego.com/	07:01
infobot	it has been said that meego is http://meego.com an opensource distribution for netbooks and mobile devices	07:01
N900bastard	yeah... but it's meant it's just to test shit... not intended for the public	07:01
pigeon	even username is grey out	07:01
asj	pyther: a joint intel nokia probject, that compines maemo with intels work	07:01
puzzled	pigeon: don't think you can change	07:02
pigeon	hmm	07:02
puzzled	indeed	07:02
N900bastard	flailingmonkey: nokia is running meego now on n900 just to test it.... they said n900 is just a testing platform no?	07:02
pigeon	not even changing the config file somewhere?	07:02
pigeon	or maybe in a gconf settings?	07:02
*** digitalsurgeon has joined #maemo		07:02
puzzled	pigeon: that I don't know	07:02
pigeon	hmm alright, thanks.	07:03
flailingmonkey	N900bastard: nope	07:03
N900bastard	no?	07:03
flailingmonkey	in fact they are building the build system so that meego apps can be built for maemo 5 (fremantle) and so that meego images can be built for N900	07:04
flailingmonkey	so all future meego versions will run on N900	07:04
N900bastard	hmm....interesting shit	07:04
puzzled	N900bastard: read this: http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2010/05/it-was-dawn-of-3rd-age.html	07:05
N900bastard	what i dont get is.... why not just come out and say it: "meego will run on n900".... why all this bullshit talk from nokia?	07:05
flailingmonkey	obviously, they should promote this properly, but right now the project managers want a whole big reveal thing (eventually people saying Nokia should be like Apple, and THAT is what they choose to do)	07:05
flailingmonkey	so it all has to be, quiet. until some annoucement	07:06
*** slyfox has quit IRC		07:06
* puzzled hopes for a big announcement on GUADEC		07:06
N900bastard	flailingmonkey: i respect what yer saying man.... i just dont see nokia EVER making an announcement about meego on n900.... i just dont get the vibes reading all the shit	07:07
flailingmonkey	and I don't even know who they got doing their PR.	07:08
flailingmonkey	but at the end of the day, you have to see it as: maemo.org people (paid to develop Maemo, by Nokia, but are contractors), then Maemo (now Meego) Devices group at Nokia, THEN Nokia people that choose what gets announced, and how	07:10
puzzled	that's enough room for a lot of disconnects :)	07:10
asj	you assume nokia knows what it wants	07:13
GAN900	flailingmonkey, maemo.org people are paid to develop maemo.org	07:13
GAN900	Call them Nokia contractors if you're talking about Collabora, Kernel Concepts, Open Ismus, etc.	07:14
flailingmonkey	GAN900: thanks for the clarification :-) maemo.org is the community	07:14
GAN900	N900bastard, define "MeeGo"	07:14
*** tmartins has quit IRC		07:15
N900bastard	meego is maemo and intel stuff now under one new name	07:15
GAN900	N900bastard, as it stands now we have at least two major things: MeeGo-Harmattan and meego.com-MeeGo	07:15
* flailingmonkey mixed up the contractors that work on Maemo, and the wonderful people that work for the maemo.org community		07:15
N900bastard	GAN900: meaning what?	07:16
GAN900	MeeGo-Harmattan will not be officially supported for N900 (because Nokia hates their customers)	07:16
GAN900	meego.com-MeeGo is supporting the N900 as its ARM dev platform.	07:16
digitalsurgeon	do any of you guys use reddit ?	07:16
digitalsurgeon	would the idea of a reddit app appeal you guys ?	07:17
RST38h	EHLO maeblin punks	07:17
GAN900	So, in the end, you get a pill of mostly useless bits and pieces for users unless somebody from the community steps up and makes it work.	07:17
GAN900	So when you talk about Nokia making an announcement about MeeGo and the N900	07:17
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		07:18
GAN900	and when you talk about meego.com providing some sort of support for the N900	07:18
N900bastard	GAN900: right... i get it	07:18
GAN900	you're actually talking about a half dozen things. ;)	07:18
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		07:18
* flailingmonkey goes to bed		07:19
*** flailingmonkey has quit IRC		07:19
GAN900	In summary, it's BYOS (Bring Your Own Support) because Nokia's filled with cheap bastards who couldn't give two shits for the people who have already forked over the cash.	07:19
N900bastard	GAN900: sad	07:21
*** pyther has quit IRC		07:21
*** liori has joined #maemo		07:21
GAN900	Indeed	07:22
*** rcampbell has quit IRC		07:23
asj	that's a pretty imature view	07:25
N900bastard	asj: but its true	07:26
asj	N900bastard: it's true that it's an immature view?	07:27
N900bastard	asj: no... the view is true	07:27
asj	N900bastard: I don't understand why one would expect a device to follow a major os change, nokia has said they won't do it, they've never done it before. Wouldn't you rather have developer resources focused on the next new device to make it better than playing around with a 1.5 year peice of limited hardware?	07:29
N900bastard	asj: no. i hate nokia constantly giving the finger to their customers. and the n900 is not 1.5 years....it's only been on the market for a very short time and nokia is fucking their customers already	07:31
ljp	FUD	07:32
RST38h	It is more like 6 months, indeed	07:32
asj	N900bastard: to get the device to market you can be assured hw designs for it were probably done >6mo before it hit store shelves. You haven't been screwed, if nokia said "we will support blah on the device" then reversed the decision you would have been screwed, they said they wouldn't and you may not have chosen to beleive them...but that's not their fail	07:33
ljp	as far as support for the n900. I wonder what all the work I have been doing bringing mobility to the n900 for the last year is...	07:34
*** DigitalPioneer has joined #maemo		07:34
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC		07:34
N900bastard	asj: a 3 yeard old iphone can run the latest os... 6 month old N900 is being killed off... see the difference?	07:34
asj	N900bastard: nope	07:34
digitalsurgeon	guys this is for the best, for Nokia doesnt do what its doing, there might not be a maemo device in the future ... ever	07:34
N900bastard	asj: really?	07:34
asj	ljp: consitent support accross platforms? :)	07:34
* RST38h has been screwed by the broken Phone application on the n900		07:35
* RST38h has been screwed by the non-working mail client		07:35
ljp	i guess it s for non support of a dying device that nokia has killed off, even though a major update was just released a few weeks ago	07:35
* ljp shurgs		07:35
* RST38h has been screwed by the overally sluggish system		07:35
digitalsurgeon	n900 was for geeks, it was never intended for mass audience.	07:36
ljp	right	07:36
* RST38h has been screwed by the lack of Cyrillics support on physical kbd		07:36
digitalsurgeon	it was for Open Source geeks, ppl like you	07:36
RST38h	Should I continue or are you getting the picture?	07:36
ljp	yep. youve convinced me. nokia is killing off the n900. you might as well send it to me	07:37
asj	RST38h: if I get an iphone and don't get a free ssh client did apple screw me?	07:37
RST38h	asj: no	07:37
asj	RST38h: but I want it!	07:38
N900bastard	asj: thats different.... what da fuck you talking about it?	07:38
RST38h	but if you get an iphone and have problems using it to call people, apple screwed you	07:38
RST38h	asj: check my statements above, do you see ssh there?	07:38
ljp	i don tthink your 3g iphone is going to get updated to ios4	07:38
N900bastard	asj: thats the problem... nokia apologists will continue to buy their products and nokia will never stop fucking their customer	07:38
digitalsurgeon	RST38h I will also happily take the n900 off your hands	07:38
asj	RST38h: just because you don't care about ssh doesn't mean I don't	07:39
RST38h	but ssh has not been included into the base os	07:39
ljp	obviously you havent yet gotten your latest update	07:39
ljp	i could have sworn I got one the other week	07:39
* ljp checks		07:39
RST38h	I have been talking about builtin stuff failing to work	07:39
Arkenoi	well, actually new decent phones come at "one per 2-3 years" rate	07:39
Arkenoi	so n900 has at least 1.5 years to live	07:39
Arkenoi	i doubt situation will change	07:40
ljp	for killing off a device, Nokia sure does heaps of work on it	07:40
asj	RST38h: so am I, I can't add arbitrary applications to the device, I think that's getting screwed	07:40
RST38h	ljp: as evidenced by...?	07:40
RST38h	asj <-- bullshitting	07:40
asj	RST38h: qt 4.6 being released for it	07:40
*** N900bastard has quit IRC		07:40
ljp	ermmm.. what I have been working on the last months	07:40
*** ljsdofuynsdfufuh has joined #maemo		07:40
ljp	what hundreds of developers have been doing	07:41
*** ljsdofuynsdfufuh is now known as shorter		07:41
RST38h	asj: that is calle "working on qt"	07:41
ljp	the latest frickin update	07:41
* RST38h does not have use for qt		07:41
Arkenoi	qt sucks	07:41
ljp	right	07:41
Arkenoi	at least on n900 and at the moment	07:41
asj	RST38h: ah, but without qt 4.6 you would have been stuck with a dieing device	07:41
ljp	thats why gtk is so sindy	07:41
ljp	windy	07:41
asj	ljp: that's just because your pants are low ;)	07:42
ljp	yep. on the ground	07:42
Arkenoi	and if you use qt you have programs that take 3-4s just to start, it is INACCEPTABLE FAIL, it is not WM, guys, so it is NOT TOLERABLE	07:42
ljp	thats because the gtk event loop is slow	07:43
RST38h	asj: I would not.	07:43
*** valdyn has quit IRC		07:44
digitalsurgeon	Arkenoi: if the whole device was Qt, it would be so much faster.	07:44
digitalsurgeon	Loading Qt libs takes time, just like on GNOME loading KDE apps takes time.	07:44
RST38h	Qt is just a UI framework. To the end user, it is no different from Gtk	07:44
ljp	qt is more than ui	07:44
RST38h	So, Qt may be important for Nokia, but it does not make much of a difference for the users	07:44
digitalsurgeon	Qt provides much nicer transitions fw, on the level above or equal to coco touch.	07:44
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		07:44
RST38h	ljp: Yea, it is also an attempt to unseat POSIX with C++	07:45
RST38h	ljp: Which is even less interesting for both users and developers	07:45
digitalsurgeon	RST38h you would see when the next meego device comes from Nokia,	07:45
* RST38h yawns at digitalsurgeon		07:45
*** Andrew7777 has joined #maemo		07:45
asj	RST38h: umm, that would be like saying glib is trying to unseat posix with C	07:45
RST38h	Transitions. Pfft. All you need is transitions, indeed :)	07:45
RST38h	asj: Correct	07:46
RST38h	asj: And also failing miserably.	07:46
ljp	POSIX is so... 1970's	07:46
RST38h	Good.	07:46
digitalsurgeon	well just as an example look at neego netbook ui 1.0 that was release coupld of weeks ago.	07:46
RST38h	It is simple, well supported, and works.	07:46
digitalsurgeon	it kills win 7 on a netbook.	07:47
digitalsurgeon	and it sall Qt	07:47
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: What is a netbook? Why do I need it?	07:47
Arkenoi	win 7 on a netbook is probably not hard to kill	07:47
asj	RST38h: ok, great unseat it, it's not portable on desktops, much less phones. It's time is over.	07:47
*** N900bastard has joined #maemo		07:47
digitalsurgeon	it kills all linux uis on netwbook as well	07:47
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: Why do I need 1) netbooks 2) linux on netbooks ?	07:48
Arkenoi	digitalsurgeon, it is much more interesting. how?	07:48
* RST38h has a subnotebook, running WinXP, weighting less than some netbooks		07:48
digitalsurgeon	ok, just one work, QtQuick	07:48
digitalsurgeon	you tube for QtQuick Demos.	07:48
* RST38h googles for tQuick		07:48
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: So, it is another load of eyecandy. What is your point?	07:49
*** nicu has quit IRC		07:49
puzzled	here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePHFGKwE6mc	07:49
RST38h	Does it allow me to do something I have not been able to do with, let us say, WinXP?	07:49
*** iPeter- has quit IRC		07:49
digitalsurgeon	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NK4zeAe5-Y	07:50
ljp	ermm. yes	07:50
GAN900	asj, your revisionist history is interesting	07:50
RST38h	puzzled: looks like Modest.	07:50
RST38h	And we all know by now that Modest sucks.	07:50
asj	GAN900: I'm not revising any history, but it's also not 1998 anymore	07:50
GAN900	asj, and people expect it because ALL of their competitors in this niche are providing that support.	07:50
puzzled	RST38h: but I bet it does client certificate authentication :)	07:50
ljp	qt quick doesnt look like anything	07:50
*** valdyn has joined #maemo		07:50
RST38h	asj: POSIX works everywhere, phones included.	07:51
GAN900	asj, the N800 received a major update	07:51
RST38h	asj: Why, it is even supported inSymbian	07:51
GAN900	as did the 770	07:51
GAN900	so you're either underinformed or revisionist.	07:51
asj	RST38h: android being java only doesn't do posix, fail.	07:51
* Arkenoi does not see how QtQuick can "kill" anything on a device without a touchscreen		07:51
digitalsurgeon	QtQuick / Declarative UI is where I think Nokia is betting, ,the reason for the delays in devices ...	07:51
RST38h	asj: Android phoens support posix underneath, when you program using native api	07:51
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: declarative UI has been known since Motif	07:52
digitalsurgeon	but tell me which mobile os currently uses declarative uis ?	07:52
GAN900	asj, and they HAVE said they'd support their products better in the future than they did in the past.	07:52
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: Any Flash-based device from Samsung	07:52
asj	RST38h: symbian's posix support is unuseable, and "underneath" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard	07:52
RST38h	asj: It is sufficient for me.	07:52
digitalsurgeon	samsung makes flash based devices ?	07:52
RST38h	asj: Does all the basic things	07:53
GAN900	asj, so kindly stop spewing uninformed nonsense since you clearly aren't very familiar with Maemo's history.	07:53
digitalsurgeon	wow thats new for me :)	07:53
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: I think a lot of thing are new to you	07:53
asj	GAN900: maemo's history is irrelevant	07:53
digitalsurgeon	flash is a performance hog, but qt quick just flies, even on symbian.	07:53
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: So, if I were you, I would be sitting quietly and listening.	07:53
asj	GAN900: unknown trial devices that weren't important 3 years ago and are less no	07:53
asj	w	07:53
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: Wonderful, "just flies" is what we have heard of Clutter based UI	07:54
digitalsurgeon	RSt38h: dude if you are so pissed at N900 then why no go buy something else and stop whining ?	07:54
ljp	except 'just flies' also includes development time	07:54
GAN900	ljp, as for that latest update, well, I got more regression than update.	07:54
RST38h	digitalsurgeon: You probably missed Clutter advocacy phase from Nokia	07:54
digitalsurgeon	i meant the development time, i made the copter game in one day	07:54
GAN900	digitalsurgeon, because we'd like to see the platform succeed.	07:55
GAN900	Despite the fact that Nokia does everything in its power to see it fail.	07:55
*** gaveen has quit IRC		07:55
N900bastard	who is calling 1.2 pr update? they broke more things that fixed	07:55
RST38h	true	07:55
digitalsurgeon	i guess u guys are fan bois for gtk or clutter :)	07:56
GAN900	N900bastard, +1	07:56
GAN900	And "hundreds" of developers is an interesting number.	07:56
asj	digitalsurgeon: just whingers :)	07:56
GAN900	considering the Fremantle team is down to skeleton crew size.	07:56
*** Terje_ has joined #maemo		07:57
GAN900	asj, how cleverly dismissive of people you disagree with.	07:57
*** wazd has joined #maemo		07:57
RST38h	moo wazd	07:57
ljp	because fremantle is in maintainence mode	07:57
*** Pikke has joined #maemo		07:57
RST38h	asj: and not even caring to check who these people are...	07:57
GAN900	ljp, yes, because Nokia doesn't care about their existing customers	07:58
N900bastard	typical of this channel to dismiss people they dont agree with as trolls or noobies	07:58
RST38h	whoch is making the whole thing even funnier	07:58
ljp	GAN900: wrong	07:58
GAN900	So don't trot out your "big" update as some sort of proof that they do.	07:58
RST38h	GAN900 <-- a newbie troll indeed	07:58
* GAN900 tries one more time to get google docs to let him edit mwkn before sleeping.		07:59
asj	GAN900: the only thing you do on irc is complain, and tmo is so full of complaints it's hard to see anything else eh?	07:59
ljp	hmm. so if nokia puts out an update its not supporting customers, and if nokia does not put out an update its not supporting customers, either. gotcha	07:59
GAN900	asj, good for you.	07:59
digitalsurgeon	but you guys are acting as trolls	07:59
digitalsurgeon	any ways what ever makes you guys happy and go to sleep :)	07:59
N900bastard	how can anyone in their right mind call 1.2 update?????	08:00
RST38h	Yes, we are all trolls here	08:00
ljp	i dunno, works for me, and gave me new features	08:00
GAN900	ljp, an "update" that's months delayed and has more regressions than fixes isn't really an update.	08:00
RST38h	trololololo is what we do	08:00
asj	certainly an unhappy bunch	08:01
GAN900	Sorry, Jaffa, thwarted by Docs.	08:01
N900bastard	it's funny how 1.2 fixed a couple of bugs (overshadowed by numerous regressions) but Nokia apologists get a boner in their pants	08:02
frals	more regressions than fixes sounds a tad made up tbh	08:02
GAN900	frals, hyperbole helps keep me sane.	08:02
GAN900	At the end of my patience here, so. . . . ;)	08:03
RST38h	how many nokia apologists do you know?	08:03
RST38h	haven't they been a dying kind lately?	08:03
N900bastard	Is quim and other nokians still posting on maemo.org or have gthe	08:04
RST38h	Ah those...	08:04
N900bastard	or have they run away completely to meego?	08:04
RST38h	no, Quim is still around, making sure he mentions Meego in his every post though	08:05
N900bastard	Nokia have fucked every n900 owner and it's criminal that they're still introducing the N900 in markets, a device they have killed off	08:06
ljp	evidence? or are you just talking out your *ss?	08:06
N900bastard	ljp: you serious?	08:07
ljp	you just contridicted yourself in one sentence	08:07
N900bastard	i did?	08:07
timeless_mbp	RST38h: i don't think symbian supports posix :)	08:07
N900bastard	prey tell how	08:07
ljp	'introducing' and 'killed off'	08:07
Jaffa	GAN900: No probs, let me put it somewhere else and we can publish when ready	08:08
RST38h	symbian supported posix since S60e3 at leat	08:08
N900bastard	yes....thats what nokia did cause they re so fucking greedy	08:08
RST38h	they had to, to make JVM work.	08:08
ljp	N900bastard: again. evidence?	08:08
*** nan has joined #maemo		08:09
ljp	i personally knoq about 50 guys here that would state the contrary	08:09
asj	RST38h: have you ever developped for symbian, really is this your posix argument? really?	08:09
ljp	know	08:09
*** Stskeeps has quit IRC		08:09
RST38h	Yes, I have developed for Symbian. And for Maemo too.	08:09
N900bastard	current fremantle folks is 3 guys pretnding nokia cares about mameo....every other fucker ha now moved on to meego	08:09
RST38h	ljp: And while we are at this topic, have you ever developed for something?	08:10
RST38h	N900bastard: Meego or Harmattan?	08:10
* Arkenoi suffered 3 times as Nokia changed OS in my handhelds without ANY compatibility already (geos->s80->s60->maemo) and at least once compatibility was quite limited (s80v1 to s80v2)		08:10
ljp	RST38h: no, I just been sitting on my butt for the last 10 years picking my nose	08:10
N900bastard	point is: the focus for nokia is meego....not maemo that they lied to us about	08:11
RST38h	ljp: I see.	08:11
Arkenoi	so i did not really expect anything really different from i previous experience	08:11
RST38h	Well, they have not really lied	08:11
Arkenoi	from my even	08:11
RST38h	They are just changing their plans so often that it is impossible to expect support from them	08:11
asj	RST38h: lol, sorry, but that's too funny I just can't get over it. Next thing you'll say is you like Symbian C++ and think everyone should use a cleanup stack. :)	08:12
N900bastard	i say to every developer: fuck meego and abandon this sinking ship....enough of nokia bullshit	08:12
frals	great to have you in this channel N900bastard	08:13
* RST38h does not necessarily likes Symbian but he has programed for it. And not having POSIX there would have made his job way more difficult.		08:13
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		08:13
ljp	N900bastard: you only think its sinking cause you are looking into a morror	08:13
ljp	mirror	08:13
ljp	and seeing oppositeland	08:13
RST38h	the other bank, you mean?	08:14
N900bastard	community support my ass suckers - keep believing nokia bullshit	08:14
RST38h	are we talking about Styx, btw? =)	08:14
asj	N900bastard: bye :)	08:14
N900bastard	asj: truth hurts dont it?	08:14
Surfa	boohoo	08:14
ljp	there's 3 truths. yours, mine and the truth	08:15
Surfa	truth my ass :)	08:15
N900bastard	many long time maemo members abandoning this circus	08:15
timeless_mbp	N900bastard: if you're planning to be a troll, could you please try to spell the name of your target correctly?	08:16
ljp	and many more longimt Qt members have joined	08:16
timeless_mbp	i'm not sure where mameo is	08:16
RST38h	many will probably get back once the next device is released	08:16
*** Ordog_by has joined #maemo		08:16
asj	N900bastard: why are you here?	08:16
RST38h	which does not explain why each device has to be abandoned 6 months before the next one is released	08:16
N900bastard	asj: it's a free society aint it?	08:16
timeless_mbp	N900bastard: no	08:17
timeless_mbp	this is a community channel	08:17
ljp	hmm. .lets see now.. developers working + recent update = abandonded. ok. go tit	08:17
timeless_mbp	not a free society	08:17
timeless_mbp	you're free to rant somewhere else	08:17
timeless_mbp	some of us would like to sleep in peace	08:17
Arkenoi	RST38h, it is easily explained: senior management are "phone" people. and typical "top handset" lifespan is half an year or less	08:17
timeless_mbp	now please, either explain what happened to you in 1.2, or go away	08:17
RST38h	ljp: update that breaks things rather than fixing them, is not a good thing	08:17
N900bastard	i wont reveal my true identity but you should think before calling people trolls. i was doing this long time ago when you were still running in diapers mate.	08:17
Arkenoi	and they simply do not understand the difference	08:17
timeless_mbp	personally while i'm disappointed that 1.2 was incredibly delayed, i did find its additional features useful	08:18
RST38h	Arkenoi: Don't they see other companies operation though?	08:18
timeless_mbp	i do use the Calendar integration in Modest	08:18
RST38h	Arkenoi: Apple? Google?	08:18
RST38h	1.2 has broken Phone application.	08:18
ljp	works for me	08:18
ljp	i call my wife all the time	08:18
timeless_mbp	RST38h: broken how?	08:18
Arkenoi	RST38h, nope, i just think they work for nokia for a long time and they just act as always and do not care until get fucked (and do not care even then)	08:19
RST38h	A moment.	08:19
N900bastard	1.2 has lots broken....not just phone app	08:19
timeless_mbp	N900bastard: please explain what's broken	08:19
asj	N900bastard: why hide behind a mask?	08:19
timeless_mbp	and if you can't point to bugs in bugs.maemo.org, then, please file them	08:19
timeless_mbp	Arkenoi: management will do until it is replaced	08:19
*** stskeepsie has joined #maemo		08:20
timeless_mbp	which is unfortunate, but that's how management works	08:20
N900bastard	and yet because the fucking battery lasts 3 minutes longer after 1.2 the fan boys declare it huge success and get a hard on in their pants	08:20
Surfa	N900bastard, what are you trying to achieve?	08:21
N900bastard	truth	08:21
joga	I'm content with my n900 and don't really care if nokia doesn't support it	08:21
Surfa	by trolling here? :)	08:21
ljp	N900bastard: i think youve mistaken n900 with an iPad	08:21
N900bastard	Surfa: truth	08:21
RST38h	timeless: Set your Phone app to the portrait mode. Put the phone down, locking it. Let someone call it. Watch the screen going through convulsions for 2-5 seconds before you can answer the call.	08:21
Surfa	N900bastard, and how this all whining is giving you the truth?	08:21
joga	there are many shortcomings with the phone app though, compared to features of most previous nokia phones	08:22
Appiah	RST38h: is that in PR1.2 ?	08:22
N900bastard	no but...	08:22
joga	not that I really need any of those myself, though	08:22
RST38h	Arkenoi: Do we already have a bug filed for this thing?	08:22
RST38h	Appiah: Yes.	08:22
Appiah	RST38h: crap...	08:22
N900bastard	meego is doomed	08:22
Surfa	N900bastard, ok so again, what are you trying to achieve with this all? :)	08:22
microlith	N900bastard: shouldn't you be trolling on tmo?	08:22
N900bastard	i want to enlighten people	08:23
Appiah	oh	08:23
digitalsurgeon	guys go watch That 70s Show, that would cool you down	08:23
joga	enlighten about what?	08:23
Appiah	I almost forgot about N900bastard	08:23
N900bastard	microlith: trust me mate i know more about maemo than you can ever hope to learn	08:23
RST38h	N900bastard: Are you sure we need enlightening here?	08:23
Appiah	comes in with different nicks starting with n900	08:23
Surfa	N900bastard, there's nothing you have said that people haven't already heard and most of your enlightment is just your subjective view	08:23
Appiah	and starts ranting about the support for meego	08:23
joga	you'll probably find that on this channel, most know what they've bought	08:23
microlith	N900bastard: Surely you do, because you said so on IRC ;)	08:24
asj	that call went well...I dunno	08:24
Surfa	N900bastard, best way to enlighten people is to file bugs for the problems so they can be fixed	08:24
Arkenoi	RST38h, yep, there was one	08:24
N900bastard	file bugs??? how fucking naive	08:24
Surfa	N900bastard, have you done that?	08:25
microlith	of course not	08:25
Surfa	N900bastard, if not then you really can't say anything about it	08:25
RST38h	Arkenoi: care to find bugid? I am looking through my mailbox but cannot find it	08:25
ljp	he doesnt get paid for filling bugs	08:25
Appiah	ye.. beacuse bugs never gets fixed... right? (me looking at the fix list for PR1.2)	08:25
N900bastard	100000 fucking times i filed a bug	08:25
Appiah	under what name if I might ask N900bastard ?	08:25
joga	are you sure about that number	08:25
microlith	wow, 100000, that's a lot of hyperbole	08:25
Surfa	nice contribution	08:25
RST38h	maybe he was filing the same bug	08:25
Arkenoi	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613	08:26
povbot	Bug 10613: screen glitches on incoming call	08:26
Surfa	it takes awhile to go throught that list of bugs and fix them	08:26
RST38h	or filing it outside of bmo	08:26
N900bastard	i wont tell my identity here - you wouldnt believe me anyways	08:26
RST38h	Arkenoi: thanks, voting for it	08:26
joga	N900bastard: or care	08:26
ljp	he ment 100000 in binary	08:26
microlith	N900bastard: I'd probably be disappointed in your attitude towards people here	08:26
Appiah	dont care	08:26
Appiah	just wanna see how you file your reports	08:26
joga	Appiah: think they really filed any?	08:26
N900bastard	joga: right, not with your nokia blinders on	08:26
joga	N900bastard: I don't have such. I'm no fan of nokia	08:26
timeless_mbp	RST38h: i seem to recall you complaining about this	08:27
joga	I happen to own this phone because of its technical merits alone and because of its usability for me	08:27
Surfa	N900bastard, it's sound you're more like insulting us than giving feedback about n900	08:27
timeless_mbp	i don't seem to recall suffering from it	08:27
*** Stskeeps has joined #maemo		08:27
timeless_mbp	in fact we tried to reproduce it at dinner a week or two or three ago	08:27
N900bastard	you all are so fucking naive but i dont give a shit no more	08:27
RST38h	good for you	08:27
asj	N900bastard: send us a link, show us a bug report you filed, really let's see one	08:27
timeless_mbp	RST38h: did you file a bug?	08:27
Appiah	N900bastard: thats what you say everytime you're here ranting	08:28
Appiah	yet you come back?	08:28
joga	N900bastard: you sound so immature you shouldn't really bother your head with our things anyway	08:28
RST38h	timeless: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613	08:28
povbot	Bug 10613: screen glitches on incoming call	08:28
N900bastard	asj: you think i'm stupid???	08:28
Appiah	With all the time you put in here complaining maybe you could have filed proper bug reports ?	08:28
RST38h	timeless: Notice that the screenshot is included with the bug report, to prevent you from claiming that "you could not reproduce it"	08:28
Surfa	RST38h, it's pretty damn difficult to debug if you can't produce it :)	08:29
N900bastard	Appiah: go ahead, file the fucking bug reports while nokia is laughing	08:29
microlith	N900bastard: why not just gtfo?	08:29
microlith	please	08:29
microlith	you've got nothing useful to say	08:29
RST38h	Surfa: It is reproducible 100% of time	08:29
Appiah	N900bastard: but I was talking about you?	08:29
N900bastard	microlith: oh but you are so useful yourselv right?	08:30
Appiah	sigh	08:30
Appiah	this troll	08:30
microlith	N900bastard: I may not be 100% useful but at least I'm not being rude	08:30
timeless_mbp	RST38h: so...	08:30
timeless_mbp	i think your steps which you provided over irc didn't specify 'start at the home screen'	08:30
asj	N900bastard: so wait, you complain but won't put your money where your mouth is...? How is showing public bugs to the public being stupid?	08:30
timeless_mbp	not certain	08:30
microlith	asj: because he's a troll and likely a liar	08:31
N900bastard	i was once very high up the maemo channel within nokia....trust me....just fucking trust me people	08:31
microlith	why should we?	08:31
Appiah	we dont care	08:31
RST38h	Surfa: Similar effect occurs in other applications as they change orientation, so I guess it is somehow related to the way Nokia does those rotations since PR1.2	08:31
microlith	you've given us no reason whatsoever	08:31
ljp	cant be a trol. i doubt he ever worked for trolltech	08:31
timeless_mbp	your description of the problem doesn't at all match the picture	08:31
Macer	rescue me is making me tear up since i am dying laughing	08:31
Macer	omg	08:32
timeless_mbp	i thought you were complaining that it jumped back and forth between portrait and landscape	08:32
Appiah	I dont see what that has to do with anything really , so what that you worked higher up?	08:32
RST38h	Surfa: In other places it is simply uncomfortable, in the phone app it makes you miss calls	08:32
N900bastard	i could give you inside info here you've never heard before but i cant	08:32
stskeepsie	N900bastard: so, what's the URL for the internal repositories, only accessible within nokia?	08:32
microlith	N900bastard: until you present proof you're just a troll, so hush	08:32
timeless_mbp	N900bastard: you could, but you can't?	08:32
RST38h	timeless: the picture shows the n900 screen at the moment of transition	08:32
timeless_mbp	sure sounds like you can't	08:32
stskeepsie	that's a pretty easy way to verify	08:32
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		08:32
*** tekojo has quit IRC		08:32
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		08:32
Macer	it is the funniest damn show i have seen in a while	08:32
ljp	N900bastard: ahh, that explains it. disgruntled ex nokia employee	08:32
N900bastard	stskeepsie: you surely are joking??? LOL LOL LOL	08:32
asj	ljp: be nice to the janitorial staff ;)	08:33
stskeepsie	N900bastard: nop, i'm not joking :) it's a simple question	08:33
RST38h	timeless: it is a very good picture too, the photographer had a second or two to make it	08:33
timeless_mbp	RST38h: yeah, that photo is pretty cool	08:33
timeless_mbp	we never have any luck using cameras to take photos of the n900	08:33
timeless_mbp	even when its screen isn't moving	08:33
RST38h	At this positive note, I will excuse myself and go to work	08:33
RST38h	meanwhile, you can contact GAN900 and tell him this problem does not exist	08:34
RST38h	He will be absolutely delighted to know that	08:34
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		08:34
Venemo	good morning	08:35
*** sleipnir has joined #maemo		08:35
asj	Venemo: GOOD MORNING!!!!!!	08:36
timeless_mbp	oooh, SFO is getting free wifi	08:36
asj	with so much 3g service is it really that important?	08:37
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo		08:37
timeless_mbp	asj: as a european who gets killed on roaming 3g charges/	08:38
timeless_mbp	yes.	08:38
*** Stskeeps has quit IRC		08:38
stskeepsie	oh that was so the wrong irssi to quit	08:38
asj	timeless_mbp: 3g pay as you go US sim? tmo+sidekick plan?	08:38
timeless_mbp	and i mean the airport	08:38
*** Stskeeps has joined #maemo		08:38
timeless_mbp	asj: sorry, i like being able to receive calls while i travel	08:38
timeless_mbp	it's part of having a mobile phone...	08:38
asj	timeless_mbp: picky picky	08:38
timeless_mbp	i know, it sounds stupid	08:38
*** puzzled has quit IRC		08:39
asj	timeless_mbp: sip :) but who uses a phone for voice anymore?	08:39
timeless_mbp	why would a mobile phone owner want to be able to receive phone calls...	08:39
*** zap_ has joined #maemo		08:39
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Or text messages	08:39
*** stskeepsie has quit IRC		08:39
Jaffa	Roaming charges really limits how useful my N900 is when travelling.	08:39
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: well, i could just stick to a british land line	08:39
timeless_mbp	i hear those support text messages	08:39
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: PPfft, I wouldn't.	08:39
timeless_mbp	but i don't think i can take one of those with me either...	08:39
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Indeed they do. Not sure anyone uses that feature regularly.	08:39
* Jaffa should get ready for work.		08:40
timeless_mbp	does the uk have mobile homes? :)	08:40
asj	txt over sip is missing from most providers, I wonder why	08:40
timeless_mbp	sms interconnect historically sucked	08:40
timeless_mbp	mms interconnect was (is?) much worse	08:40
ljp	hmm.. dang it. looks like I have to get back to working	08:41
timeless_mbp	aww	08:41
* Jaffa remembers the days of intra-network only SMSes, and sharing cross-network centre numbers.		08:41
asj	heh, international mms is well...heh that's why I have an n900, mms doesn't matter ;)	08:42
* timeless_mbp remembers them too		08:42
*** Pikke has quit IRC		08:42
* timeless_mbp didn't bother using SMS but does remember the lack of utility		08:42
*** hardaker has quit IRC		08:44
* ljp remembers when sms's were morse code		08:45
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		08:46
*** digitalsurgeon has quit IRC		08:49
*** andrenarchy has joined #maemo		08:49
*** tackat has joined #maemo		08:50
wazd	meego community firmware should definitely be called "WeeGo" :)	08:55
wazd	hello everyone btw :)	08:56
Stskeeps	or GoMer	08:56
Stskeeps	:P	08:56
microlith	I'll vote for GoMer	08:56
wazd	Stskeeps: :D	08:57
wazd	Stskeeps: nice :)	08:57
timeless_mbp	NeeGo	08:57
timeless_mbp	we are the knights of Nee	08:57
timeless_mbp	Nee Go	08:57
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo		08:57
Venemo	by the way, what happened to Mer?	08:57
Stskeeps	go read mer-project.blogspot.com	08:57
Venemo	Stskeeps, I already read this blog :)	08:59
tybollt	Jaffa: I agree about the limited usefullness due to roaming charges	08:59
tybollt	Jaffa: Lucky me my N900 broke just in time for my vacation	08:59
Venemo	Stskeeps: the last entry mentioning Mer said "Mer as a system will live on in Mer^2"	08:59
tybollt	so I was never faced w/ that problem	09:00
Venemo	Stskeeps: and since then, I haven't heard of it	09:00
Stskeeps	Venemo: yeah.. and plans changed around a bit after we got meego running on n8x0	09:00
*** z4chh has quit IRC		09:01
*** simula has quit IRC		09:02
Venemo	Stskeeps: so, the new plan is porting MeeGo instead of Harmattan?	09:02
Stskeeps	Venemo: Mer^2 was for N8x0	09:02
Venemo	Stskeeps: yes, I know	09:03
Venemo	sorry, I meant "porting MeeGo instead of Fremantle" ?	09:03
Stskeeps	Harmattan on N8x0 is just insane, MeeGo, less so :P	09:03
Venemo	Stskeeps: :)	09:03
Venemo	Stskeeps: so, this is the regular "MeeGo" and not "MeeGo-Harmattan", correct?	09:04
Stskeeps	right	09:04
Venemo	Stskeeps: okay	09:05
Venemo	Stskeeps: thanks for the info	09:06
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo		09:08
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		09:08
*** plastun has joined #maemo		09:08
plastun	hello! how to set style for TouchSelector items like in Phone? large text for the first line and small text for the second line?	09:08
Venemo	plastun: what do you mean by a TouchSelector?	09:11
plastun	I mean scrollable widget with n-columns and m rows	09:11
*** ab[out] is now known as ab		09:11
*** avs has joined #maemo		09:12
Venemo	plastun: Qt or Gtk?	09:12
plastun	PyGtk	09:12
Venemo	plastun: well, then, I haven't a clue	09:13
Venemo	plastun: I mostly develop in Qt	09:13
*** nicu has joined #maemo		09:13
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		09:15
*** wazd has quit IRC		09:16
*** nan has quit IRC		09:16
*** larsivi has quit IRC		09:17
Venemo	plastun: perhaps try #maemo-devel	09:17
plastun	ok	09:17
*** MadViking has quit IRC		09:17
*** mece has joined #maemo		09:20
mece	good morning	09:23
*** vldcnst has joined #maemo		09:23
sandst1	morning	09:23
shorter	hey, I've a 5.1 surround from logitech	09:24
shorter	but it only has those three input for surround cards	09:24
shorter	how do I plug in a stereo (like from an ipod) and have it sound full/good?	09:25
shorter	oh shit	09:25
shorter	wrong channel	09:25
*** zap_ is now known as zap		09:25
shorter	lolz	09:25
Corsac	I find your lack of input disturbing	09:25
shorter	I'm going to blame it on pidgin's cntl+tab functionality	09:26
shorter	me corsac?	09:26
*** frals_ has joined #maemo		09:26
*** stilli has joined #maemo		09:26
*** pyhimys has quit IRC		09:27
mece	shorter, thanks, I didn't know about ctrl-tab. Great and useful feature :)	09:28
shorter	lol	09:28
shorter	ouch	09:28
shorter	try it in a browser	09:28
shorter	dont forget cntl+shift+tab	09:28
shorter	to go in reverse	09:28
mece	nod I figured that one out already :)	09:28
shorter	sub cntl for alt for most WM (in linux) features	09:29
mece	~seen x-fade	09:29
infobot	x-fade is currently on #maemo (3d 21h 29m 55s) #meego (3d 21h 29m 55s), last said: 'Saviq: Only 1.10 as max.'.	09:29
*** dvoid_ has joined #maemo		09:29
mece	howcome AIR feels more like lead?	09:30
tybollt	AIR?	09:30
mece	adobe	09:30
tybollt	is that on N900 now?	09:31
mece	no	09:31
tybollt	ah for PC	09:31
tybollt	yeah sure	09:31
mece	yes	09:31
tybollt	I argee	09:31
mece	it's like the name is sarcasm.	09:31
tybollt	my media centre at home does HD playback fine	09:31
tybollt	w/ AIR I can't even do SD playback w/out lots of choppy chops	09:31
tybollt	so yeah I agree - ironic name indeed	09:32
mece	haha.. I never did any video playback with air, but all air apps I've used are incredibly slow and memory hungry	09:32
tybollt	ugh yeah I bet	09:33
*** msanchez has joined #maemo		09:35
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		09:36
mece	hmpf, I promoted a new version of qlister yesteday (that supports right-to-left languages) and the main package page hasn't been updated, so there's not proper link to the voting page.	09:36
Venemo	I'd like to start my application on startup	09:36
Venemo	could someone tell me what is wrong with this script?	09:36
Venemo	start on started hildon-desktop	09:36
Venemo	script	09:36
Venemo	/usr/local/bin/./EVE-Watcher without-ui	09:36
Venemo	end script	09:36
Venemo	it doesn't start	09:37
mece	the ./	09:37
Appiah	what language is that?	09:37
mece	?	09:37
Stskeeps	upstart	09:37
Stskeeps	:P	09:37
Venemo	the ./ is usually needed to start my app	09:37
Appiah	./usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui	09:37
mece	Venemo, but that only refers to "current dir" if you specify the path you don't need that	09:38
Venemo	mece, okay	09:38
Venemo	okay, will try	09:38
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		09:38
mece	hmm should still work with ./ there though.	09:38
mece	oh wait	09:39
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo		09:39
mece	Appiah, should there really be a . in front there? I'd say /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui	09:39
*** Wikier has joined #maemo		09:39
*** florian_kc is now known as florian		09:40
Venemo	mece: still not working	09:40
*** me1ne has joined #maemo		09:42
Appiah	mece: no idea on what Venemo is doing	09:42
Appiah	i dont understand the "script , end script"	09:42
Appiah	never used that	09:42
frals_	wont it need run-standalone.sh?	09:43
Venemo	Appiah: every script in /etc/event.d/ looks like this	09:43
Appiah	yes but I never used it Venemo	09:43
Appiah	never touched it	09:43
frals_	ie run-standalone.sh /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui	09:43
Venemo	frals_: trying now	09:44
mece	frals_, does the latest fmms need testing? I can confirm it works :)	09:44
Venemo	frals_: not working, either	09:45
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		09:46
Stskeeps	morning andre__	09:47
andre__	morning Stskeeps	09:47
Stskeeps	had a good weekend?	09:47
timeless_mbp	andre__: can you change bugs.maemo.org's default quoting behavior?	09:48
timeless_mbp	iirc it's a param	09:48
frals_	X-Fade: http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/ lists latest version in testing as 1.1.8 while http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fmms/1.1.9/ seems to be in testing :)	09:48
timeless_mbp	bugzilla for insane reasons defaults to full comment quote	09:48
timeless_mbp	(broken out of the box)	09:48
*** eMHa has quit IRC		09:48
*** trupheenix_ has joined #maemo		09:49
andre__	Stskeeps: was okayish... didn't do much. plus studying :-/	09:49
frals_	mece: always need votes ;-)	09:49
frals_	Venemo: then i have no clue, sorry :p	09:49
Stskeeps	andre__: i pretty much didn't do much after returning home saturday, i'm always a bit comatose after trips :P	09:49
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		09:50
andre__	haha	09:50
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		09:50
mece	Venemo,try this: http://pastebin.com/K1rSpky9	09:50
mece	or something.	09:51
Venemo	mece: will do	09:51
mece	Meego release plans. If anyone's interested http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1 (not the right channel, I know)	09:52
andre__	timeless_mbp, I don't think there is any option for that.	09:52
mece	frals_, I have that exact problem with qlister.	09:53
mece	frals_, the testing link	09:53
timeless_mbp	andre__: hrm	09:54
mece	frals_, also, you could vote for your own app too :)	09:54
mece	Venemo, did it work? Or got caught in a reboot loop?	09:55
timeless_mbp	the version of bugzilla we have is so old	09:55
*** tackat has quit IRC		09:55
Venemo	mece: a minute	09:55
timeless_mbp	http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/3.6/en/html/userpreferences.html there's definitely a user pref for it in newer	09:56
timeless_mbp	i had hoped there'd be a site default of "not stupid"	09:56
timeless_mbp	if there isn't, please post a patch ;-)	09:57
*** dvoid_ has quit IRC		09:57
mece	hey, ansel-a is one vote from extras: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/ansela/0.9-5/	10:00
RST38h	back	10:01
timeless_mbp	what is it?	10:02
*** sleipnir has quit IRC		10:03
*** mairas has joined #maemo		10:03
*** jpe has joined #maemo		10:04
mece	timeless_mbp, what is Ansel-A? It's a "Digital Darkroom" and it's a very cool app.	10:04
timeless_mbp	"Adding ansela"	10:04
*** Venemo has quit IRC		10:04
*** mikki-kun\|sleep is now known as mikki-kun		10:05
mece	here's the announce thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55861 definately one of the best apps imo.	10:06
timeless_mbp	kinda slow?	10:07
*** plastun has quit IRC		10:07
timeless_mbp	"Loading Photos...5"	10:07
*** plastun has joined #maemo		10:07
mece	timeless_mbp, hmm yeah. But other than that it's really nice :)	10:07
timeless_mbp	it's really slow	10:08
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		10:08
TriztFromWork	A silly question: but why has the hildon-thumbnail program be run each time you reboot n900?	10:08
Venemo	re	10:09
Venemo	sorry, my machine just froze	10:09
TriztFromWork	or open the gallery	10:09
mece	timeless_mbp, Took about 20 seconds for me	10:09
timeless_mbp	Trizt: it can't know what you've done to the system via usb	10:09
Appiah	Venemo: :)	10:09
Appiah	TriztFromWork: the indexer?	10:09
mece	timeless_mbp, I only have some 100 photos though.	10:09
TriztFromWork	timeless_mbp; it feels like it remakes the thumbnails each time, takes like 2 weeks and the phone is so lagish	10:09
mece	TriztFromWork, how many photos do you have?	10:10
TriztFromWork	Appiah; no clue, it appears as hildon-thumbnail when I do a ps	10:10
*** cure` has joined #maemo		10:10
TriztFromWork	mece; like all I have taken since 2001 and forward, ~800	10:10
mece	oo	10:11
mece	:)	10:11
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		10:11
mece	TriztFromWork, eeh sorry I got confused about what we were talking about..	10:12
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		10:12
TriztFromWork	so I would be happy if I could disable it, so it won't run automatically	10:12
TriztFromWork	mece; hildon-thumbnail	10:12
* timeless_mbp kicks ansela out of devel		10:12
Proteous	"go back to were you came from!!"	10:13
Proteous	were?	10:13
Proteous	s/were/where/	10:13
infobot	Proteous meant: where?	10:13
Venemo	mece: it seems that your solution is not working	10:13
mece	Venemo, hm	10:13
timeless_mbp	Proteous: nah, stop hiding from all the people	10:13
timeless_mbp	tiny caves are no place for a good application to hide	10:13
Venemo	mece: however, I will give it one more try, just let me rebuild my app	10:14
Proteous	heh	10:14
mece	Venemo, can you run it directly from xterm like that?	10:14
Proteous	yeah, I hear you can get eaten by a grue	10:14
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		10:14
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		10:16
mece	Venemo, as in if you go to exterm and type /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui	10:16
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		10:17
Venemo	mece: yes, but the app terminates when I close the terminal	10:17
mece	Venemo, yeah. still that script should work then.	10:17
mece	what is it called?	10:17
Venemo	the script?	10:18
Venemo	it is located in /etc/event.d/ and the filename is eve-watcher (without extension)	10:18
*** polymar has joined #maemo		10:19
Venemo	mece: any ideas?	10:20
mece	Venemo, try doing, as root, initctl list eve-watcher	10:21
Venemo	the output is:	10:21
Venemo	eve-watcher (stop) waiting	10:21
mece	ok, so the script runs, but the app exits	10:21
Venemo	it shouldn't exit	10:22
mece	what happens if you run it as root?	10:22
Venemo	also, it should display a message box when started (just to make sure that it runs)	10:22
Venemo	which does not appear	10:22
Venemo	the app should not run as root, btw	10:22
Venemo	or, at least, no reason to run it as root	10:23
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		10:24
mece	Venemo, I guess it gives some errors if it crashes, so you could pipe the errors to a file..	10:25
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		10:25
Venemo	mece: no, it shouldn't give any errors. at least, it doesn't give any if I simply launch it	10:26
Venemo	perhaps it shouldn't run when hildon-desktop is started, but when hildon-home is started?	10:26
mece	Venemo, but obviously it doesn't work from event.d so maybe it gives errors	10:26
*** bergie has joined #maemo		10:27
Venemo	mece: hm	10:27
Venemo	mece: is it possible to launch it when hildon-home is running?	10:27
mece	Venemo, well, try putting 2> /tmp/eve-watcher-errors.log to the end of the command in the event.d file	10:28
*** zaheer__ has joined #maemo		10:29
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo		10:29
*** ham5 has quit IRC		10:29
mece	and see what it says.	10:30
*** zaheer_ has quit IRC		10:30
Venemo	mece, okay	10:30
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		10:30
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		10:30
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		10:30
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		10:31
*** elstupidos has quit IRC		10:32
Venemo	mece: still nothing	10:33
*** ceyusa has joined #maemo		10:33
Venemo	and there is no such file in /tmp, either	10:33
*** hrw\|gone is now known as hrw		10:33
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC		10:33
*** hrw has left #maemo		10:34
*** ptlo has joined #maemo		10:34
mece	Venemo, but ok. Does the app work if you start it as root?	10:34
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo		10:34
plastun	how to add markupped text to HildonTouchSelector?	10:35
Venemo	mece: I dunno, wait a moment	10:35
*** muelli has joined #maemo		10:36
mece	plastun, I'm not sure you can.	10:37
plastun	I can, but it works incorrectry	10:37
mece	plastun, oh.	10:37
plastun	cell_renderer.set_property('markup', 1)	10:37
mece	plastun, what's the problem then?	10:38
plastun	do not set property 'markup', it add text '1' ot touch selector	10:38
mece	plastun, right cell_renderer.. yeah.	10:38
Venemo	mece: yes, it seems that it runs as root if I launch it from xterm	10:38
mece	plastun, 1 is not a markup.	10:38
Venemo	mece: initctl now says, "No jobs matching 'eve-watcher'"	10:39
plastun	mece, yes, but I set cellrenderertext to column, not for each item. right?	10:39
*** lpotter has quit IRC		10:41
*** tackat has joined #maemo		10:41
*** psycho_oreos has joined #maemo		10:41
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		10:42
*** lpotter has joined #maemo		10:43
*** smaug has joined #maemo		10:45
*** raster has joined #maemo		10:46
*** furunk3l has joined #maemo		10:46
furunk3l	yes hello	10:47
*** sheepbat has quit IRC		10:47
*** fcrozat\|gone is now known as fcrozat		10:49
timeless_mbp	andre__: comment 30 was funny	10:49
timeless_mbp	> I could verify this bug if somebody will give detailed explanations how to open	10:49
timeless_mbp	> http://tinyarro.ws/	10:49
*** ceyusa has quit IRC		10:49
*** ceyusa has joined #maemo		10:49
mece	plastun, markup property sets the markup'ed text to render, so in that case you have to render each element afaict.	10:51
* plastun dazed		10:51
Venemo	mece: any ideas?	10:51
plastun	it there any other methods to set cellrenderer property and add only elements, with no selecting cellrenderer?	10:52
andre__	timeless_mbp, doesn't it say much about testing skills?	10:52
* andre__ sighs		10:52
*** lpotter has quit IRC		10:52
timeless_mbp	i'm surprised you didn't offer detailed instructions as comment 31	10:52
mece	plastun, 'markup' is the same as 'text' but with markup parsed. like instead of cell_renderer.set_property('text', 'An item') you do cell_renderer.set_property('markup', '<b>An item</b>') or something like that.	10:52
*** sx0n has joined #maemo		10:52
frals_	bug #?	10:52
timeless_mbp	frals: just search for 'tinyarro.ws' in bugzilla	10:53
*** inz has quit IRC		10:53
*** rkbm has quit IRC		10:53
*** inz has joined #maemo		10:53
plastun	mece, I understand	10:53
timeless_mbp	andre__: but yeah, i think that one might be worth framing	10:53
*** ceyusa has quit IRC		10:54
*** ceyusa has joined #maemo		10:54
plastun	mece, can you show simple exaple how to add items with different cell renderers?	10:54
mece	plastun, I've never bothered.. lemme see if I can find something.	10:54
*** cure` has quit IRC		10:55
timeless_mbp	andre__: would it be reasonable to note in the public bug what the general fix is so that someone who wants to backport it could know	10:55
andre__	feel free to	10:55
frals_	(lol)	10:58
*** alextreme has quit IRC		10:59
timeless_mbp	frals: as andre__ noted, our testers are impressive	10:59
*** The_Tall1 has joined #maemo		11:01
frals_	hehe	11:02
*** ayanes has joined #maemo		11:02
tybollt	frals	11:03
*** rkbm has joined #maemo		11:03
mece	frals_, got flattr?	11:03
tybollt	frals_: Will you take offence to my calling your update frquency as flooding? >:D	11:04
frals_	negative	11:04
frals_	tybollt: ive pushed one update the last 2 weeks ;p	11:04
mece	frals_, want an invite?	11:04
tybollt	frals_: ? :P	11:04
frals_	mece: no idea what it is, dont think i need it? but thanks! ;)	11:04
tybollt	then my device has cocked up :)	11:04
tybollt	it's asked me to install fmms updates many many times :)	11:05
mece	frals_, it's a micro donation service	11:05
mece	tybollt, you shouldn't have devel enabled...	11:05
mece	tybollt, :P	11:06
frals_	tybollt: i released 1.1.8 like 2 weeks ago and 1.1.9 yesterday or the day before that ;)	11:06
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		11:06
vldcnst	timeless_mpb: do you own tinyarro.ws?	11:06
timeless_mbp	no	11:07
timeless_mbp	why?	11:07
vldcnst	Just wondering.	11:07
mece	timeless_mbp, you linked to it..	11:07
timeless_mbp	vldcnst: i work on the web browser	11:07
timeless_mbp	and we get screwed because the idiots who "own" fonts don't think having decent fonts is important	11:08
timeless_mbp	so i file bugs about various sites in an effort to get them to make the fonts suck less	11:08
mece	:)	11:08
timeless_mbp	tinyarro.ws happens to be a convenient site	11:08
tybollt	timeless_mbp: do you know of a WM called ION?	11:08
timeless_mbp	yes	11:08
timeless_mbp	a colleague uses it	11:08
tybollt	Do you know Tuomo?	11:09
tybollt	(dude who write ION and who is quite the rabid font ranter :)	11:09
timeless_mbp	do i want to know why google suggest for 'tuomo' is 'tuomo ruutu girlfriend'	11:09
*** eocanha has joined #maemo		11:09
tybollt	timeless_mbp: :D	11:09
frals_	lol	11:09
tybollt	Ion (window manager) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - [ Översätt den här sidan ]	11:10
tybollt	It is the successor of PWM and is written by the same author, Tuomo Valkonen. Since the first release of Ion in the summer 2000, similar alternative window ...	11:10
*** amigadave has joined #maemo		11:10
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		11:10
*** davyg has joined #maemo		11:10
timeless_mbp	yeah, clearly, not the right tuomo	11:10
Venemo	hey guys	11:12
Venemo	could anyone please tell me how to run my app on system start on Maemo?	11:12
Venemo	no matter which tip I tried in event.d, it is not working :(	11:12
*** ptlo has quit IRC		11:14
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC		11:14
*** tbf has joined #maemo		11:14
*** ptlo has joined #maemo		11:14
*** lpotter has joined #maemo		11:16
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo		11:16
*** mk8 has quit IRC		11:17
toggles_w	Venemo: you can put it in /etc/rc.local	11:18
Venemo	hm	11:19
Venemo	it seems that I managed to get it to work	11:19
Venemo	although it runs as root, and not as user	11:19
*** nextime has joined #maemo		11:20
Venemo	toggles_w: this is working:	11:21
Venemo	description "starts EVE-Watcher"	11:21
Venemo	start on started hildon-desktop	11:21
Venemo	exec run-standalone.sh /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher	11:21
Venemo	toggles_w: however, I don't know how to pass an argument to the app	11:22
Venemo	toggles_w: nor do I know how to start it as user "user"	11:22
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		11:22
mece	Venemo: exec su - user -c "exec run-standalone.sh /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui"	11:22
*** plastun has quit IRC		11:22
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		11:23
*** me1ne has quit IRC		11:23
*** plastun has joined #maemo		11:23
*** dl9pf has quit IRC		11:25
Venemo	mece, thank you!	11:26
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo		11:27
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo		11:27
*** sergio_ has joined #maemo		11:27
mece	Venemo, did it work?	11:28
Venemo	mece, yes it did	11:28
Venemo	mece: you just saved my day! :)	11:29
Venemo	mece: thank you very much!	11:29
mece	Venemo, np	11:30
*** ag0ny has joined #maemo		11:30
*** raster has quit IRC		11:31
*** pyhimys has joined #maemo		11:32
mece	Qlister 0.2-7 needs some votes btw, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qlister/0.2-7/ so test it if you have time.	11:33
mece	If you have apps that need testing I can be of service btw.	11:33
*** bilboed-pi has joined #maemo		11:35
lcuk	mornin maemo \o	11:36
*** bilboed-pi has left #maemo		11:37
frals_	mornin lcuk	11:37
frals_	hows you?	11:37
*** aboyer_ has joined #maemo		11:38
lcuk	morning frals - im good thanks :) coffee with zero sugars and still alive!	11:39
*** BCMM_ has joined #maemo		11:39
*** dneary has joined #maemo		11:39
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:39
lcuk	morning Jaffa \o	11:39
lcuk	which country are you in today	11:39
* lcuk puts 10p in the maemo planet - it does appear to have stalled		11:40
*** BCMM has quit IRC		11:40
lcuk	barisione, did you mention last night you submitted something that should be on planet?	11:40
* SpeedEvil installs qlister.		11:41
barisione	yes	11:41
barisione	lcuk: the planet didn't update since the 18 it seems	11:41
*** th3hate has joined #maemo		11:42
*** tekojo has quit IRC		11:43
th3hate	can anyone answer my question about power kernel?	11:43
*** Talus_Laptop has quit IRC		11:44
lcuk	X-Fade, morning \o do you know anything about planet being stuck?	11:44
*** edheldil has joined #maemo		11:45
mece	SpeedEvil, hope it works :)	11:45
X-Fade	lcuk: Looking at that. The cron job runs as it should though.	11:45
mece	X-Fade, hello, there seem to be some issue with replacing a package in texting. Do you have time to check it out?	11:46
X-Fade	mece: Can be the same issue as the planet one, let me check that out first.	11:47
mece	X-Fade, ok, thanks.	11:47
*** Ikarus has joined #maemo		11:47
*** BCMM_ has quit IRC		11:48
* lcuk slides a coffee over to X-Fade		11:48
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo		11:48
Myrtti	hello all you beautiful people	11:50
Jaffa	lcuk: UK this week	11:50
lcuk	:D dont sound so downhearted jaffa :p :D	11:51
lcuk	Myrtti, good morning x	11:51
Jaffa	lcuk: Not been a fun morning	11:51
lcuk	:(	11:51
*** tackat has quit IRC		11:51
mece	Hello Myrtti and Jaffa	11:51
mece	any particular reason why less is not promoted to extras?	11:52
*** tackat has joined #maemo		11:54
*** TheNewAndy has joined #maemo		11:54
*** ponyofdeath has quit IRC		11:54
Jaffa	mece: 1) Because the developer hasn't promoted it to Extras-testing; 2) because it's not got an icon (including the standard CLI one); 3) it doesn't specifically state that this is for use on the command line only. However, it is optified :-)	11:56
*** ponyofdeath has joined #maemo		11:58
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: ping	11:58
Jaffa	GAN900: ping	11:58
lcuk	ok, for things like this jaffa, do you think if one of the testing squad could actually make those tiny tweaks and send him a patch	11:58
lcuk	to help him out	11:58
*** marcus has joined #maemo		11:59
marcus	Kinda offtopic, but does anybody know where the binary file of OpenOffice Word is located on Arch Linux?	11:59
lcuk	it may push projects such as that forward - ie he might not add the icone because he doesnt know how	11:59
Jaffa	lcuk: Anyone could send him a patch	11:59
lcuk	yes i know	11:59
joga	marcus: really off-topic	11:59
Jaffa	lcuk: Doesn't have to be the Testing Squad. Could be any interested user (cough mece)	11:59
joga	marcus: but guessing: /usr/bin/oowriter	11:59
mece	Jaffa, :) all true. Where's that icon thing?	12:00
lcuk	Jaffa, yeah was thinking the testing squad because they are reviewing - but yes mece is also reviewing :D	12:00
joga	marcus: you can also find this out by yourself by typing in a terminal 'which oowriter'	12:00
Jaffa	mece: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/QA_Checklist#Command_Line_applications	12:00
marcus	which: no oowriter in (/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin/perlbin/site:/usr/bin/perlbin/vendor:/usr/bin/perlbin/core)	12:00
joga	(I think the binary for the "word" portion of ooo is called oowriter)	12:00
Jaffa	mece: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/Command_line_applications more specifically	12:00
*** Venemo has left #maemo		12:00
marcus	So guess not.	12:00
*** sergio_ has quit IRC		12:00
joga	marcus: is it installed? usable?	12:01
marcus	Indeed.	12:01
joga	marcus: check the shortcut or something then to see what it launches	12:01
lcuk	jaffa - hmm	12:01
*** sergio__ has joined #maemo		12:01
Myrtti	marcus: doesn't archlinux have an irc channel of their own?	12:01
lcuk	perhaps that isnt highlighted in the testing guidelines ..	12:01
joga	lunchie time ->	12:01
marcus	I've got it open, I just want to tell Firefox that it should open .doc files with oowriter.	12:01
lcuk	rather than fail a package - if in a position to offer a simple patch and guidance..	12:02
marcus	Myrtti: They do, but I requires some sort of registration, so I can only "listen".	12:02
timeless_mbp	ooh	12:02
timeless_mbp	firealarm testing this morning	12:02
Myrtti	marcus: the registration isn't rocket science	12:02
timeless_mbp	good thing i don't go in that early :)	12:02
lcuk	timeless_mbp, mind the firedoors!	12:02
timeless_mbp	lcuk: they changed the way some of the emergency door thingies work	12:03
timeless_mbp	i'm trying to decide if the new ones are better	12:03
timeless_mbp	i suspect it takes an instruction manual to operate	12:03
lcuk	lol well when im there ill let someone else open them for me :D	12:03
mece	Jaffa, so adding the words "A cli " to the beginning of the first description line, making it A cli pager program similar to more and adding the icon would be enough?	12:04
timeless_mbp	lcuk: learning from experience?	12:05
timeless_mbp	that's not the nokia way	12:05
mece	it doesn't have a bugtracker. should I link to the official less bugtracker?	12:05
timeless_mbp	if at first you don't succeed, repeat until you do!	12:05
lcuk	timeless_mbp, !! i have to	12:05
lcuk	ive not got mnay fingers left	12:06
timeless_mbp	we didn't let you keep them?	12:06
timeless_mbp	i mean attached, detached, what's the difference?	12:06
lcuk	you did, but according to my typing they are now in the wrong order	12:06
timeless_mbp	heh	12:06
alterego	One of my friends just suggested an app that detects lon preiods of time that the acceleromenter hasn't moved, causes an alarm and tells you to do some excercise :)	12:07
Jaffa	mece: Dunno about the bug tracker, mailto:<triager> would be sufficient. Of course, it's also dependent on the packager being willing to promote it	12:07
timeless_mbp	heh	12:07
lcuk	alterego, lol	12:07
alterego	Not sure how bad polling the accel would cost though :)	12:07
Jaffa	alterego: I want an app which detects no movement between certain times of day; uses the light sensor and then sets my IM status to away.	12:07
alterego	Jaffa, not bad. I could do that :P	12:08
lcuk	alterego, what do you code in? gtk or qt?	12:08
alterego	I've got quite accoustomed to telepathy, auite liking it.	12:08
alterego	lcuk: qt now, but I used to do everything in gtk.	12:08
alterego	Were you one of the devs finding it hard to get to grips with Qt? or was that someone else?	12:09
* lcuk nods cool		12:09
SpeedEvil	Sometimes the export process for planet can get stalled.	12:09
lcuk	no im just wondering what limitations you find - since you are a crossover dev	12:09
SpeedEvil	Historically at least, the bzip occasionally gell over due to various problems.	12:09
lcuk	can youhappily create qt desktop widgets	12:09
X-Fade	Should be going now again, we found the issue.	12:10
SpeedEvil	err - never mind	12:10
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		12:10
lcuk	\o/ X-Fade	12:10
alterego	lcuk: doesn't feel like there are as many widgets for Qt out-of-the-box. but they do promote custom widget creation.	12:10
ScriptFanix	timeless_mbp: reminds me of http://wintermute.legions.org/OUTSIDE/bofh/bofh17jul.html	12:10
lcuk	alterego, is the process simple/as simple as it could be	12:10
lcuk	and do you think theres any tricks missing to allowing qt widgets	12:11
*** xDaReaperx has joined #maemo		12:11
xDaReaperx	Hi	12:11
xDaReaperx	hmm wasn't there a bug when you use Break , the phone switches completly to portait mode ? is this fixed ? cause it dosent seem to work for me	12:11
alterego	lcuk: also, PySide (not sure about PyQt) seems really bad as it doesn't handle reference counting properly and commonly segfaults unless you explicitly keep references to all your widgets. Which isn't always the nicest thing in a flexible interpretted language.	12:11
*** Ikarus has quit IRC		12:11
MohammadAG51	Braek	12:11
xDaReaperx	yeah Braek	12:12
*** marcus has quit IRC		12:12
MohammadAG51	use rotatedaemon, it's more "reliable"	12:12
xDaReaperx	okay	12:12
lcuk	no alterego - would a wrapper class around the hildon widget be required?	12:12
alterego	lcuk: I find it just as simple as gtk tbh, in some cases it feels nicer.	12:12
*** muelli has quit IRC		12:13
Jaffa	alterego: It doesn't even need to poll the accelerometer continually; it can just take a few samples every few minutes and if they're very close; assume the device hasn't moved.	12:13
*** smaug has quit IRC		12:13
alterego	Semantically, they're pretty much identical though, they have their own meta object systems that implement dynamic properties and signals/slots.	12:13
lcuk	alterego, sure it does - but qt shouldnt have the ballache portions, if there was a hildon_widget class (or whatever naming convention was) that neatly wrapped up all the rough edges	12:13
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC		12:14
alterego	Jaffa: sure, that would work, but then, it's not particulalry reliable. You might miss movement.	12:14
* timeless_mbp rotfl		12:14
lcuk	technically guys you dont even need to check accelerometer	12:14
timeless_mbp	ScriptFanix: thank you, i think that made my week	12:14
lcuk	just see if the screen is on	12:14
lcuk	/has been on	12:14
xDaReaperx	MohammadAG51: does it resize the screen ? cause in portait mode the media player's screen is half cut	12:14
alterego	lcuk: Actually, not having any hildon stuff seems better from my perspective, the less customisation required for an app to be mobile the better imo.	12:14
lcuk	alterego, yeah i know	12:15
lcuk	but ive seen the boiler plate in example widgets	12:15
lcuk	that each app has to drag in	12:15
*** smaug has joined #maemo		12:15
MohammadAG51	xDaReaperx, obviously not, the media player is designed for landscape only	12:15
alterego	Yeah, not done any custom widgets yet.	12:15
xDaReaperx	Oh okay thanks	12:15
alterego	But I will be soon enough :)	12:15
alterego	Anyhow, shower time.	12:15
alterego	bbiab	12:15
lcuk	\o	12:15
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: alterego: the accellerometer in hardware can be configured to interrupt if trip points are exceeded	12:16
alterego	SpeedEvil: awesome, I'll note that down, I was thinking something like inotify would help, but what you describe is much cooler, anyholw shower! bbiab :D	12:17
SpeedEvil	alterego: I don't think it's implemented in the kernel driver though	12:17
lcuk	SpeedEvil, docs said similar but did not elaborate could you add notes to the accelerometer page (or a subpage from it)	12:18
SpeedEvil	What would be the correct process to poke for the sourcecode of powertop.	12:18
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: Cool	12:18
SpeedEvil	lcuk: I need to reread the datasheet	12:18
lcuk	cool :) if you manage it it would be good	12:18
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: It also supports hardware 'tap' events, which are unused too.	12:18
Jaffa	lcuk: That doesn't work - if I'm on the train, I want to be contactable but may not be using the device.	12:18
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: Oooh	12:18
lcuk	because that also has things about sensitivity and also calibration	12:18
Jaffa	All manner of shiny	12:18
SpeedEvil	What would be the correct way to poke for the release of the sourcecode of 'powertop' - or to get it into extras-nonfree or somewhere?	12:19
mece	ok, I sent him a pm with a link to a patched control file. Would be nice if he does it.	12:19
*** cyguser has joined #maemo		12:19
pexi	ahh, this htc desire feels like a real phone ;)	12:19
xDaReaperx	MohammadAG51 : hahaha i ran Firefox on N900 using rotatedaemo in portait mode , it turned my phone off xD	12:19
xDaReaperx	too buggy	12:19
xDaReaperx	after all its for testing	12:20
mece	SpeedEvil, is the source not available?	12:20
MohammadAG51	xDaReaperx, that's cause firefox supports portrait mode	12:21
xDaReaperx	yeah i guess :D	12:21
SpeedEvil	mece: As I understnad it, no	12:22
SpeedEvil	err	12:22
SpeedEvil	Why is it possible to thumb up https://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_i386/www2sms/1.0.5/ ?	12:22
timeless_mbp	you mean instead of https://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/www2sms/1.0.5/ ?	12:23
crashanddie	It's an italian and a greek arguing about who made the best civilisation. The Greek goes "We built the Parthenon", the Italian says "Ah, but we built the Colliseum". The Greek says "We invented mathematics", to which the Italian replies "But we built the Roman Empire". The Greek finally says "We invented sex!". "That's true", the Italian replies, "but we thought about having it with women!"	12:24
SpeedEvil	yes	12:24
timeless_mbp	because we're silly, find/file a bug :)	12:24
SpeedEvil	k	12:24
timeless_mbp	i think there should be one	12:24
*** zs has joined #maemo		12:24
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: heh	12:24
*** BCMM has quit IRC		12:26
*** xDaReaperx has quit IRC		12:26
*** xDaReaperx has joined #maemo		12:26
*** MikeK has quit IRC		12:27
*** Ikarus has joined #maemo		12:28
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo		12:28
*** Ikarus has quit IRC		12:28
*** ioeee has joined #maemo		12:29
shorter	how can I tell if the proxies in the internet connection preferences are connecting?	12:29
shorter	any debuging methodologies?	12:29
mece	SpeedEvil, is powertop even in the repos	12:29
*** MikeK has joined #maemo		12:30
lcuk	mece, http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/	12:30
*** Khertan has quit IRC		12:31
MohammadAG51	frals, you get a lot of weird bugs on bugzilla :P	12:31
lcuk	MohammadAG51, be thankful you havent got your own personal bugzilla :P	12:32
SpeedEvil	mece: no	12:32
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/	12:32
*** yerga has joined #maemo		12:33
alterego	shorter: whatismyip.com?	12:33
xDaReaperx	Zen bound is a fun game :D	12:33
SpeedEvil	Oops	12:33
SpeedEvil	It would seem the original packager noticed.	12:33
SpeedEvil	It's in devel now	12:33
shorter	alterego, I'm not connected yet	12:34
*** gomiam has joined #maemo		12:34
alterego	shorter: well, when you are ...	12:34
*** bigbrovar_ has joined #maemo		12:34
mece	ah non-free	12:34
alterego	Is there anything I have to do to my product page for an app to make it recognise my maemo account and apply karma?	12:35
shorter	trying to get connected	12:35
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC		12:35
mece	alterego, no.	12:36
alterego	cool, so it should show up eventually then :)	12:36
mece	alterego, only the talk.maemo.org -> maemo.org needs to be done manually.	12:36
alterego	Right, suspected as much.	12:36
mece	alterego, did your app get to extras?	12:36
alterego	mece: yup	12:37
mece	alterego, nice. which one?	12:37
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		12:37
*** tekojo has quit IRC		12:37
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		12:37
alterego	mece: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/media-im-status-updater/	12:37
mece	alterego, right.. I'm using that one I think.	12:37
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		12:37
mece	at least it's installed.	12:37
mece	I haven't really tested it..	12:37
alterego	:) Well if you've not configured it before you need to enable/configure it first.	12:38
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, your bouncer's been a bit laggy lately	12:38
lcuk	morning tekojo \o	12:38
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		12:38
MohammadAG	said something on :36:52, I'll see when it goes through	12:38
tekojo	morning lcuk!	12:39
*** sezuan has joined #maemo		12:39
BCMM	what's that app called that lets you use wifi without being on GSM?	12:40
BCMM	(i mean, like offline mode but with wlan)	12:40
SpeedEvil	BCMM: you can do that nromally.	12:40
SpeedEvil	there is 'cell modem switcher' or something	12:40
BCMM	SpeedEvil: how do you do that normally?	12:40
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		12:41
mece	alterego, it works :)	12:41
BCMM	offline mode turns off wlan doesn't it?	12:41
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		12:41
alterego	mece: :)	12:41
MohammadAG	grr	12:41
MohammadAG	damn lag	12:41
SpeedEvil	BCMM: You move out of GSM coverage	12:41
mece	alterego, wait actually I did test this on my friends phone.	12:41
mece	anywya	12:41
alterego	Heh,	12:41
mece	MohammadAG, what's lagging?	12:41
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, I uploaded the package	12:41
SpeedEvil	BCMM: Or you run 'stop BME' and run the battery below 3v.	12:41
MohammadAG	mece, freenode...	12:41
BCMM	SpeedEvil: i mean withou leaving the celll...	12:41
BCMM	i'll rephrase...	12:42
alterego	mece, all in all it seems to take about 10 seconds to appear on an MSN account	12:42
BCMM	iirc, there is an app to allow you to intentionally disconnect from gsm; like offline mode, but with wlan enabled	12:42
jacekowski	X-Fade: ping	12:42
lcuk	tekojo, longest day of the year, at least unless you go really far north :) hope sun is shining for you today	12:42
alterego	mece: which is better than I'd orignally expected, (it's actually just five, but I added a 5 second debounce period to ignore fast track skipping)	12:42
X-Fade	jacekowski: pong	12:42
BCMM	can anyone recall the name?	12:42
jacekowski	X-Fade: any chance that you could send me working config files for maemo autobuilder?	12:43
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/view/cell-modem-ui/ BCMM	12:43
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: ?	12:43
X-Fade	jacekowski: the buildme configs?	12:43
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, powertop, I built that package not the original maintainer	12:43
SpeedEvil	ah	12:43
X-Fade	jacekowski: Ehm sbdmock ones?	12:43
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, check the deb's control file, I'll see why it shows him as a maintainer	12:43
BCMM	SpeedEvil: thanks	12:43
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: I was confused, as it still said original maintainer	12:43
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: I mean the one in extras	12:44
jacekowski	X-Fade: yeah, and sbdmock, and wanna-build, and buildd, and sbuild or whatever you are using	12:44
MohammadAG	yeah, I'll have ping X-Fade about it (X-Fade, ping)	12:44
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: extras-devel	12:44
MohammadAG	yeah SpeedEvil, check the control file in http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/p/powertop/powertop_1.0_armel.deb	12:44
BCMM	also, is it technically possible to use 3G data while not being connected for the purpose of recieving calls?	12:44
X-Fade	jacekowski: sbdmock is what does the actual build preparations and builds.	12:44
MohammadAG	I think it's because it's an older version, uploading 1.2	12:44
jacekowski	X-Fade: but something manages the queue	12:45
mece	X-Fade, problem sorted, thanks. :)	12:45
jacekowski	X-Fade: and wanna-build seems to just ignore everything	12:45
X-Fade	mece: Yeah, maintenance node issue.	12:45
X-Fade	jacekowski: buildme is what processes the queue.	12:45
tekojo	lcuk: cloudy, but good enough :)	12:45
jacekowski	X-Fade: so copy of configuration files would be nice	12:45
X-Fade	jacekowski: Buildme: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/buildme/?root=extras-cauldron	12:45
MiXu-	BCMM: At least it's possible for the phone to decide not to react to incoming calls.	12:46
jacekowski	hmmm	12:46
jacekowski	X-Fade: still, any chances for sbdmock config?	12:46
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: ah	12:46
X-Fade	jacekowski: Yes, moment.	12:46
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: /opt/maemo/usr/bin/powertop	12:46
SpeedEvil	Powertop 1.13.3	12:46
SpeedEvil	- seems not to be older	12:46
X-Fade	jacekowski: Has been posted to the lists a few times, but let me dig the most recent on up ;)	12:46
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, older as in package number, my version is 1.0, the uploaded one is 1.13	12:47
SpeedEvil	I see	12:47
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: shouldn't matter - the old one was never actually downloadable	12:47
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, I should've followed the same versioning scheme, but... too late to do that	12:47
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: apt-get install powertop now works.	12:47
*** apoirier has joined #maemo		12:48
MohammadAG	it's non-free, but that's because the "source" is a binary	12:48
mece	Soo, who has an idea why the autobuilder-built wesnoth segfaults while the scratchbox built one works fine?	12:48
MohammadAG	mece, the autobuilder is racist	12:48
mece	MohammadAG, I don't actually think wesnoth has a race, so racism shouldn't affect it..	12:49
MohammadAG	mece, the uploader does	12:49
MohammadAG	X-Fade, do you mind checking out why the maintainer hasn't been replaced here? http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/	12:49
X-Fade	MohammadAG: email not set in account?	12:50
MohammadAG	X-Fade, I'm not that much of a noob :)	12:50
MohammadAG	X-Fade, Maintainer: Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh <mohammad7410@gmail.com>	12:50
*** aboyer_ has quit IRC		12:50
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Did you add that email to your profile?	12:51
SpeedEvil	Also - simply as it was a binary on pr1 fs doesn't mean it's redistributable technically	12:51
MohammadAG	X-Fade, yes, I've uploaded packages before	12:51
SpeedEvil	There is no licence attached to the file	12:51
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, afaik it's licensed under the GPL license	12:51
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Ah, maybe the import hasn't run yet.	12:51
X-Fade	jacekowski: http://maemo.pastebin.com/EGPuVW6G	12:51
MohammadAG	X-Fade, it has, the package was uploaded yesterday :)	12:52
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: lesswats.com's powerttop is licenced under the GPL.	12:52
MohammadAG	well, today	12:52
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, and can someone change the license?	12:52
*** plastun has quit IRC		12:52
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: this is not that - it's a complete reimplementation	12:52
*** cjdavis has quit IRC		12:52
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Yes, but maintenance node was broken-ish. Has been fixed for not that long.	12:52
MohammadAG	oh, ok	12:52
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		12:52
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: Sure - the original author - that we don't know	12:52
*** plastun has joined #maemo		12:52
*** aboyer_ has joined #maemo		12:53
SpeedEvil	~closed	12:53
infobot	[closed] http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages	12:53
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, assume it's under the GPL till someone proves otherwise :)	12:53
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Ah, there already was a maintainer.	12:53
X-Fade	MohammadAG: It won't ever replace that one then. :)	12:53
X-Fade	MohammadAG: You need to request maintainership.	12:53
MohammadAG	X-Fade, weird, I did it once	12:53
*** trupheenix_ has quit IRC		12:53
MohammadAG	S	12:53
MohammadAG	er	12:53
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Only if none is set.	12:53
* timeless_mbp tries to remember how apt works		12:54
MohammadAG	X-Fade, and the package is broken (old one)	12:54
* timeless_mbp considers asking a computer		12:54
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, super cow powers	12:54
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		12:54
MohammadAG	X-Fade, actually, no, I replaced the maintainer for one package	12:54
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: my computer relied on super-copy-on-write powers	12:54
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Well, it isn't nice to steal a package. So that is why you need to request maintainer when there is already one set.	12:54
*** plastun has quit IRC		12:54
*** plastun has joined #maemo		12:54
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Package as in reserved name space.	12:54
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		12:55
MohammadAG	X-Fade, I know, I was going to request maintainership after I uploaded it, but he just got replaced	12:55
*** mardi has left #maemo		12:57
X-Fade	MohammadAG: I seem to be missing the issue, what did you expect and what did actually happen?	12:57
*** felipec has quit IRC		12:57
MohammadAG	X-Fade, I expected it to overwrite the previous fields on the packages page, but that isn't the expected result from what it seems.	12:57
timeless_mbp	3024 i'm stupid	12:58
X-Fade	MohammadAG: No, that would be evil.	12:58
* timeless_mbp likes that commit message		12:58
X-Fade	MohammadAG: That way anybody can hijack your package.	12:58
MohammadAG	X-Fade, hey, the importer did it once :P	12:58
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Only if there was none set in the interface.	12:58
MohammadAG	X-Fade, there was someone	12:58
MohammadAG	not sure which package it was though	12:59
MohammadAG	can someone do an ls -l in /bin/tar please? I removed the original one	12:59
MohammadAG	on*	12:59
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: it's just a symlink to busybox	13:00
*** Termana has joined #maemo		13:01
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, so it's /bin/tar -> /bin/busybox?	13:01
Termana	yello	13:01
MohammadAG	hey Termana	13:02
Arkenoi	wow	13:02
Arkenoi	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7190 <-resolved	13:02
povbot	Bug 7190: music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web	13:02
MohammadAG	wow indeed, This has been fixed in package pulseaudio 0.9.15-1maemo43+0m5	13:03
SpeedEvil	MohammadAGyes	13:03
* Arkenoi wonders if it is possible to get it packaged separately from PR.13 or whatever will it be ;-)		13:04
lcuk	Arkenoi, dont sound so shocked that bugs are fixed :)	13:05
alterego	Apparently MS are following in Apple's footprints by releasing a mobile OS withough copy/paste?!	13:05
SpeedEvil	I assume apt-get remove pulseaudio;apt-get install pulseaudio would do nothing?	13:05
Termana	alterego, did you expect any better?	13:05
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, it would install the same package you removed	13:06
Termana	This is Apple and Microsoft we are talking about here :P	13:06
alterego	Termana: I expect nothing :P	13:06
SpeedEvil	Thought so.	13:06
lcuk	SpeedEvil, its not in a release yet	13:06
BCMM	alterego: don't worry, I'm sure they'll introduce it later with great fanfare	13:06
BCMM	and use the word "innovation"	13:06
SpeedEvil	In principle - is there anything stopping some person compiling pulse, and jamming it in extras?	13:06
MohammadAG	ln -s /usr/bin/gnu/tar /bin/tar <-- postinst. postrm --> ln -s /bin/tar /bin/busybox	13:06
lcuk	alterego, that means they are on new green code then	13:07
MohammadAG	looks right, right?	13:07
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Yes, me ;)	13:07
lcuk	since they have had c&p for donkeys years	13:07
lcuk	it shows something good	13:07
alterego	So, if I wanted to implement a pay for app, and I was going to implement a registation system to do it. Do you think people would get mad if I used their IMEI to do so? :)	13:07
mece	SpeedEvil, same problem as with other bits that break SSU I suppose.	13:07
SpeedEvil	ah	13:07
MohammadAG	alterego, why should they	13:07
mece	SpeedEvil, but I'm sure it could be in devel?	13:07
alterego	:)	13:07
SpeedEvil	alterego: I think they have no real case - as long as you've explained it	13:07
alterego	Yeah,	13:08
SpeedEvil	alterego: What do you mean by 'use the IMEI'	13:08
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, where would we get the source in the first place	13:08
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		13:08
MohammadAG	IMEI tied with registration server	13:08
alterego	SpeedEvil: as in make the package lock to their IMEI	13:08
SpeedEvil	alterego: Sending the IMEI to you I would be hesitant about	13:08
mece	MohammadAG, apt-get source pulseaudio worked...	13:08
SpeedEvil	as you can do various bad things with IMEI	13:08
alterego	It's just a light idea at the moment.	13:09
MohammadAG	alterego, you do know someone could just fake the IMEI if you're going to use the dbus method	13:09
MohammadAG	mece, for the newest source? (the one that was fixed?)	13:09
mece	MohammadAG, I suppose not.	13:09
alterego	MohammadAG: there are many ways to get around it I'm sure, but your average user isn't going to know.	13:09
mece	MohammadAG, what was fixed?	13:09
MohammadAG	This has been fixed in package pulseaudio 0.9.15-1maemo43+0m5 which is part of the internal build version 2010.24-2	13:10
alterego	anyhow gotta move bbiab	13:10
MohammadAG	bug 7190, as Arkenoi said	13:10
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7190 music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web	13:10
jacekowski	X-Fade: python2.6?	13:10
*** shpaq has quit IRC		13:11
X-Fade	jacekowski: what, where, how?	13:11
*** edheldil has left #maemo		13:12
jacekowski	X-Fade: are you using python2.6?	13:12
X-Fade	jacekowski: For?	13:12
jacekowski	buildme	13:12
jacekowski	( on 2.5 it fails on ImportError: No module named json )	13:12
jacekowski	and it looks like it's ok on 2.6	13:13
X-Fade	Yeah, you need json for python.	13:13
X-Fade	But it looks we are using 2.5.	13:13
jacekowski	well, i can't find json package with json that would work	13:15
jacekowski	anyways, 2.6 is working	13:15
X-Fade	jacekowski: ii python-json 3.4-2 a JSON (http://json.org) reader and writer in Python	13:15
mece	MohammadAG, have you checked on gitorious?	13:16
MohammadAG	not really, still looking at the Xarchiver source and the diablo patches	13:17
*** kthomas has quit IRC		13:19
jacekowski	X-Fade: destinations = ('builder1@corsola.dmz:/home/builder1/', 'builder2@corsola.dmz:/home/builder2/', 'builder3@corsola.dmz:/home/builder3')	13:20
*** jukey has joined #maemo		13:20
*** shpaq has joined #maemo		13:21
X-Fade	jacekowski: Those are just ssh accounts to your sbdmock machine.	13:23
shorter	trying to get the proxy to work	13:24
shorter	any ideas?	13:24
SpeedEvil	How would I determine if the tag 0.9.15-1maemo43+0m5 is in http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio/ ?	13:24
shorter	I've tested it on my computer	13:24
* SpeedEvil does not understand git		13:25
shorter	is there something I would need enabled in squid to connect with teh n900?	13:25
shorter	in advanced i just have proxyname and port	13:25
haj	uhm.. anyone tried running Warcraft II on their N900.. via Stratagus I guess... ?	13:25
haj	Wargus..	13:25
mece	SpeedEvil, hmm.. It's not sorted like that. latest is 0.9.19-1maemo3 it appears..	13:26
mece	haj, there's a video of it I think, so someone has.	13:26
SpeedEvil	mece: yes -Ican seethemost recent tagstoo	13:26
SpeedEvil	mece: Ormaybe that's all ofthem-andit's simply not there	13:27
mece	holdon	13:27
frals_	SpeedEvil: in sourceree it should show all tags afaik	13:27
frals_	otherwise, clone the repo and git tags should show you all of them ;o	13:27
*** BCMM has quit IRC		13:28
haj	mece: yah.. I'm just wondering if it works okay to play it... just played through Dune II as House Harkonnen and that worked somewhat okay.. though OpenDune crashes a lot :/	13:28
SpeedEvil	I can clone the repo - but I don't understand what to do from there.	13:28
* SpeedEvil sighs.		13:28
mece	SpeedEvil, well one of those commits has the correct version I suppose.	13:29
SpeedEvil	Assuming it's the same repo	13:29
mece	they didn't tag eaarlier than 0.9.18-1maemo1 it appears	13:29
frals_	SpeedEvil: or just do (assuming you have git installed) mkdir pa-git; git clone http://git.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio.git; git tags	13:29
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		13:30
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo		13:30
MohammadAG	hmm, so how do I make an app show up in the "open with" dialog	13:31
*** achipa has joined #maemo		13:31
alterego	MohammadAG: you need to modify the mimetype registry by adding it into your .desktop I think.	13:31
alterego	There's also an app for that :)	13:31
alterego	Which does it "dynamically" :D	13:31
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		13:31
jacekowski	X-Fade: ChangesException: Error: file chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo4.dsc isn't signed	13:32
MohammadAG	MimeType=application/x-arj;application/arj;application/x-bzip;application/x-bzip-compressed-tar alterego it already is defined	13:32
alterego	Hrm ...	13:33
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		13:33
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		13:33
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		13:33
*** shorter has left #maemo		13:33
*** shorter has joined #maemo		13:33
X-Fade	jacekowski: That explains itself? :)	13:34
jacekowski	well, it's same package i was using for maemo builder	13:35
jacekowski	but hmm	13:36
X-Fade	jacekowski: Yes, you should be able to turn that check off.	13:36
mece	SpeedEvil, the changelog jumps from 0.9.15-1maemo32 to 0.9.19-1maemo1, so that particular version, 0.9.15-1maemo43 does not appear to be there.	13:36
alterego	MohammadAG: you might need to exec update-mime-database and not sure if you need to register with tracker w/ tracker-register-mimetype	13:37
mece	SpeedEvil, why not try 0.9.19?	13:37
X-Fade	mece: Might have been an interim nightly build or so.	13:37
MohammadAG	alterego, where are .service files stored?	13:37
jacekowski	X-Fade: i did	13:37
SpeedEvil	mece: Because that would involve thought	13:37
jacekowski	Error: can't copy '/home/maemo/public_html/builder/fremantle/chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo4/sources/chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo4_source.changes' to '/'	13:37
jacekowski	hmm	13:37
jacekowski	that's more fun	13:37
SpeedEvil	mece: It's a perfectly teasonable question though.	13:37
mece	SpeedEvil, hmm. I'm tempted to build that.	13:38
X-Fade	jacekowski: Hehe, don't specify builder home as /	13:38
alterego	MohammadAG: /usr/share/dbus-1/services I believe	13:38
MohammadAG	found it :)	13:38
mece	SpeedEvil, probly depends on some other stuff though..	13:38
SpeedEvil	mece: Basically - I was not assuming that that was the gir repo that the development was being done on - it might have been forked ealier - so that the fix does not appear on that repo	13:38
SpeedEvil	mece: Hence I was lookinf for the same tag name to confirm that	13:38
jacekowski	hmmmmm	13:38
jacekowski	destinations = ('maemo@jacekowski.org:/home/maemo/builds/')	13:38
jacekowski	Error: unknown destination 'm'	13:38
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: What are you trying to do? Has the OK been given to put chromium up again?	13:39
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: i'm puting it up in my repo	13:39
jacekowski	and because it's in the eu	13:39
jacekowski	i don't have to care	13:39
alterego	:)	13:40
alterego	God bless the EU and their anti-sw-patent ethic :)	13:40
X-Fade	It is a sad story, but we're still working on a solution too btw.	13:40
alterego	Cool	13:40
MohammadAG	Nuke IL -> RESOLVED FIXED	13:41
jaska	\o/	13:41
alterego	Is maemo.org not in the eu? :D	13:41
jacekowski	alterego: nokia is in US as well	13:41
jacekowski	alterego: but i'm only in the eu	13:42
alterego	Oh, right	13:42
alterego	Good point	13:42
jacekowski	raise Error("Error: unknown destination '%s'" % destination)	13:42
* RST38h nukes MohammadAG slowly and painfully, just like if he were debugging him		13:42
shorter	how should i test a 3g proxy on the n900?	13:42
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo		13:42
shorter	can't tell if it is connecting or what	13:42
jacekowski	i shouldn't be getting that error unless something is seriously fucked up in my config file	13:42
SpeedEvil	shorter: A 3g proxy?	13:42
MohammadAG	purge and reinstall	13:42
alterego	SpeedEvil: so, it's not actually possible to do what we discussed earlier with the accelerometer?	13:43
SpeedEvil	shorter: you mean a box that you get from your WSP that you pay for, as they are too cheap to build out a proper net?	13:43
*** ikarus has joined #maemo		13:43
jacekowski	hmmmmm	13:43
shorter	not sure	13:43
shorter	it is a squid proxy	13:43
SpeedEvil	alterego: It's possible - but you would need to first fix the kenrel to get it interrupting	13:43
shorter	because they're blocking port 80 on my 3g service	13:43
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: did you see the crunchpad article?	13:43
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: No.	13:43
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: well - I assume not, as I have no recollection of the name crunchpad.	13:44
timeless_mbp	i think i botched the name :)	13:44
timeless_mbp	techcrunch	13:44
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		13:44
timeless_mbp	http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/15/att-microcell-3g-techcrunch/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29	13:44
SpeedEvil	ah - no	13:45
mece	OT but OMG Cthulhu! http://funnycrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Chthulu-Cake-ab062110.jpg	13:45
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: ah.AtleastintheUK,Idon'tthinktheybotherabout that - thye'll just sell you one	13:46
alterego	I think I've got an abcess	13:47
SpeedEvil	timeless: however - to be fair - many buildings are constructed so they are goo RF shelds, and you'd nver be able to get a signal	13:47
*** plastun has quit IRC		13:47
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		13:48
*** plastun has joined #maemo		13:48
*** bergie has quit IRC		13:49
*** millenomi has joined #maemo		13:53
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		13:53
*** ioeee has quit IRC		13:54
shorter	any idea what I should do in the ip addresses section of the advanced settings in the 3g connection preferences?	13:54
shorter	in order to get a proxy to work?	13:54
*** N900bastard has left #maemo		13:55
shorter	SpeedEvil: and I'm not sure what you mean by the box from my WSP	13:55
SpeedEvil	shorter: I mean a 3G proxy, like the one timeless_mbp linked to	13:56
*** TomaszD has joined #maemo		13:56
shorter	ah, yeah i mean an actual squid server	13:57
achipa	fun-tastic, a FN document is missing and suggest to report the 404 on a page that is... 404 itself	13:57
SpeedEvil	shorter: I'm not sure that'd work	13:57
SpeedEvil	shorter: I've never investigated proxysettings. I know others have had problems.	13:57
*** plastun has quit IRC		13:57
*** plastun has joined #maemo		13:58
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo		13:58
*** bilboed-tp has left #maemo		13:59
*** kthomas has quit IRC		14:00
*** jerhum has joined #maemo		14:01
*** petrux has joined #maemo		14:01
*** FredrIQ has joined #maemo		14:05
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		14:07
jacekowski	hmmmm	14:07
jacekowski	Error occured: Failed to select target maemo5-arm-dba73629df2ffe48249c7bfed488a60535e1a66e, exiting	14:07
jacekowski	in sbdmock	14:07
X-Fade	jacekowski: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/horizontal-call_0.6-1/armel.root.log.OK.txt	14:09
X-Fade	jacekowski: There you can see what steps it should do.	14:09
X-Fade	jacekowski: I guess you created the scratchbox users?	14:10
jacekowski	yes	14:10
jacekowski	what scratchbox version are you using?	14:10
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		14:10
*** furunk3l has left #maemo		14:10
*** X-Fade has quit IRC		14:14
plastun	how to temporary disable search in TouxhSelector when pressing hardware key?	14:14
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		14:15
*** jayne has quit IRC		14:15
*** ikarus is now known as Ikarus		14:15
*** ScriptFanix has quit IRC		14:15
*** wao has quit IRC		14:15
*** wao has joined #maemo		14:16
*** sezuan has quit IRC		14:16
th3hate	Nokia N8: http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7352/47627289.jpg	14:16
th3hate	just for the lulz	14:16
*** jayne has joined #maemo		14:16
*** ScriptFanix has joined #maemo		14:16
jacekowski	i think it's working	14:17
alterego	So what repo is gnu screen in?!?!?!?!?!? :D	14:18
tybollt	)#¤%)#()%(!)(%)"#	14:18
MohammadAG	alterego, gnu screen?	14:19
alterego	It's a UNIX app, really cool :) Like VNC for the command line people usually say.	14:19
Ikarus	th3hate: wouldn't happen on the N900, it would just swap trash like hell :P	14:19
joga	screen is THE most useful single program I think	14:19
tybollt	tmux > screen	14:19
th3hate	another pic for the lulz: http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8840/50142675.jpg	14:20
th3hate	:D	14:20
th3hate	symbian will stay symbian no matter what they did	14:20
joga	tybollt: what does tmux actually do better in practice? I glanced at it briefly (and the other alternative whose name can never be remembered) but didn't see anything worth learning	14:20
joga	(I think it used ctrl-b for the command key? or maybe it was the other one)	14:21
joga	of course you can change that, but well :)	14:21
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		14:21
*** pyther has joined #maemo		14:21
*** Osama has joined #maemo		14:22
joga	oh hey now I remember, it was "byobu". just as ingenius a name for a terminal multiplexer as baobab is for a disk usage analyzer	14:22
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		14:22
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		14:22
joga	though baobab is from little prince, I hear	14:22
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		14:23
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		14:24
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		14:24
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		14:24
tybollt	joga: Tmux is actively maintained - in fact it is so actively maintained most bug fixes are done w/in an hour or two	14:25
joga	tybollt, I've yet to find a bug in screen :)	14:25
tybollt	...	14:25
joga	(seriously, I can't think of a single one)	14:26
*** Zucca has quit IRC		14:26
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo		14:26
joga	maybe I've just so accustomed to it I don't notice anymore, but I dunno	14:26
tybollt	seriously it's a bikeshed	14:26
joga	*I'm	14:26
tybollt	screen is good for you	14:26
joga	can you name some bug or misfeature in it so I could at least tell my users why I installed several multiplexers for them without telling why they're better? ;)	14:27
*** stilli has quit IRC		14:28
tybollt	well it crashed for me at an inconvenient time	14:28
tybollt	that there points bug that made it crash :)	14:28
joga	are you sure it crashed and it wasn't the xon/xoff thing for example?	14:28
joga	ok :)	14:28
alterego	Heh	14:28
tybollt	as I said it's a bikeshed - screen is probably good enough for you	14:29
joga	tybollt, I was just interested in what makes tmux et al superior in practice. I use screen massively and it has never failed me. I don't mean to bash the alternatives. what is screen not good enough for?	14:30
zash	tmux has built in tiling wm?	14:31
zash	wooot	14:31
joga	I trust ion3 to do that for me	14:31
zash	screen just has oneway split afaik	14:32
joga	yeah, that's one. screen does have crappy window tiling	14:32
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC		14:32
joga	I don't need that, though, because I look at one window at a time in a single wm frame anyway	14:32
zash	there's also dtach which does only the detaching/reattaching part	14:33
joga	I tried to use split windows but it just made using screen a bit more error prone, so I don't do that anymore	14:33
* pahartik tries to get "aiccu_20070115-9-maemo1_armel.deb" installed but "dpkg: error processing aiccu (--install): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2"		14:34
tybollt	the biggest thing with tmux is it is free	14:34
joga	this is byobu but when I tried it, to me it just looked like a bunch of confusing candy http://people.canonical.com/~kirkland/Screenshot-ec2-cost.png	14:34
alterego	I'm not into split windows + screen, not why I use it. Screen + emacs ftw though :)	14:34
tybollt	screen still has that ugly GPL thing	14:35
alterego	It's almost like they were built for each other :D	14:35
joga	tybollt, ok...but is there some big difference in actual functionality?	14:35
joga	like, some cool feature you use every day	14:35
tybollt	yes there are	14:35
petteri	screen rules, don't see any reason from moving to alternatives	14:35
korhojoa	i liek screen	14:35
tybollt	liek	14:36
joga	I'd like to know some of the reasons before considering it seriously :)	14:36
joga	I've used screen daily for I dunno...7 years at least	14:36
alterego	Anyhow, this is a wonderful discussion and all, but where the hell is screen for maemo :P	14:36
joga	alterego: oh, it's there, in Extras or -testing	14:36
joga	I've it installed at least, and those repos enabled :)	14:37
alterego	hrm, I get package reference errors.	14:37
joga	I wish someone less lazy than me would write some config for tmux so window handling works identically to ion :)	14:44
alterego	Ah it's in the "maemo tools' repository	14:44
joga	oh	14:45
joga	sorry :)	14:45
*** tekonive` has quit IRC		14:45
*** tekonive` has joined #maemo		14:45
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		14:46
*** achipa has quit IRC		14:48
*** otubo has joined #maemo		14:48
*** janin has quit IRC		14:49
*** trupheenix_ has joined #maemo		14:50
TomaszD	Stskeeps, ping	14:50
*** frals_ has quit IRC		14:51
*** janin has joined #maemo		14:52
*** plastun has quit IRC		14:52
*** plastun has joined #maemo		14:52
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo		14:53
*** merlin_phone has joined #maemo		14:54
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		14:54
*** shorter has left #maemo		14:55
*** trupheenix_ has quit IRC		14:56
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		14:56
Stskeeps	TomaszD: pong	14:57
TomaszD	Stskeeps, hey. What's new in Maemo land?	14:57
*** Osama has quit IRC		14:58
*** luizirber has joined #maemo		14:58
Stskeeps	TomaszD: well, maemo.org is self-destructing itself, handset UX should come out this month of meego and i plan on ignoring the internet for a week starting saturday :)	14:59
tybollt	oh?	14:59
tybollt	the xterm wasn't it then? >:P	14:59
TomaszD	ah, so everything is normal	14:59
lcuk	maemo.org would be less self destructing if people would stop saying such. people are looking at hildon on meego	14:59
pyther	Neweeg dropped the N900 by $10 today	15:00
Stskeeps	tybollt: no, emacs is the new UX	15:00
Stskeeps	lcuk: i actually did port hildon to stock gtk, let's see what people do with it	15:00
tybollt	Stskeeps: Gee, no need to scare us like that ;)	15:00
TomaszD	I still haven't given up on the FR Stskeeps :)	15:00
lcuk	sure Stskeeps its just difficult to get people going on meego because of all the smoke and mirrors	15:01
tybollt	Stskeeps: is hildon to be converted to QT somehow or will the QT GUI be a completely new thing?	15:01
*** msanchez is now known as msanchez_afk		15:01
Stskeeps	tybollt: it's difficult to move a gobject based framework to be using a qt base instead of gtk, i'd say	15:01
lcuk	tybollt, there are similar qildon type packages available but people are aiming to get gtk hildon on the meego base	15:02
tybollt	Stskeeps: '	15:02
tybollt	Stskeeps: 'look 'n feel'	15:02
Stskeeps	tybollt: people are quite good with theming, they'll figure something out	15:02
tybollt	I take that as a no	15:02
*** eocanha2 has joined #maemo		15:02
*** eocanha has quit IRC		15:02
* Stskeeps doesn't do gtk, but others might		15:02
TomaszD	Stskeeps, qtmoko has insanely cool fullscreen handwriting recognition that actually works	15:03
lcuk	plenty of people do :p	15:03
Stskeeps	TomaszD: scary, cellwriter or?	15:03
TomaszD	no, Qt embedded	15:03
Stskeeps	ah	15:03
*** tekonive` has quit IRC		15:04
TomaszD	something they eventually gave up on	15:04
TomaszD	but hey, it works well, the whole shebang on the FR works well	15:04
lcuk	thats ok - the code should be recompilable	15:04
tybollt	Stskeeps: could you be a little less smoke and mirrors, yeah? :)	15:05
Stskeeps	tybollt: i'm not the one making smoke and mirrors	15:05
Stskeeps	:P	15:05
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		15:05
Stskeeps	i will be smoking quite a fair bit in a week though, but no mirrors involved.	15:05
Stskeeps	:P	15:05
* tybollt reckon Stskeeps is fairly well aware of the boundaires of NDA's :)		15:06
lcuk	where you heading to Stskeeps	15:06
tybollt	lala-land? :)	15:06
lcuk	well its either freetown or amsterdam lol	15:06
*** kthomas has quit IRC		15:07
Stskeeps	lcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskilde_Festival	15:07
lcuk	kickass Stskeeps \o/	15:08
mece	Thanks for the bugreport. Much appreciated SpeedEvil	15:08
*** eocanha2 has quit IRC		15:08
*** eocanha2 has joined #maemo		15:08
*** NishanthMenon has joined #maemo		15:09
*** tekonive` has joined #maemo		15:09
*** pupnik has joined #maemo		15:09
*** achipa has joined #maemo		15:10
TomaszD	Stskeeps, Qt Extended, not embedded	15:10
TomaszD	4.4.3, after which it got cancelled	15:11
*** RST38h has quit IRC		15:11
lcuk	Stskeeps, you around for guadec - perhaps we can see about some extra gtk hands :)	15:11
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC		15:11
*** plastun has quit IRC		15:11
*** plastun has joined #maemo		15:11
Stskeeps	lcuk: probably not, but maybe someone can do a BoF on the work	15:12
*** pyther has quit IRC		15:12
*** Gadgetoid_iMac has quit IRC		15:14
*** briglia has joined #maemo		15:14
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo		15:15
*** eitama has quit IRC		15:15
*** pupnik has quit IRC		15:15
*** eitama has joined #maemo		15:15
*** danielwilms has joined #maemo		15:15
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		15:15
MohammadAG	* eitama has quit (Excess Flood) <-- I guess freenode changed the limit	15:15
SpeedEvil	mece: Err?	15:16
SpeedEvil	mece: Oh	15:16
*** polymar has quit IRC		15:16
*** polymar has joined #maemo		15:16
*** DigitalPioneer is now known as DocScrutinizer2		15:17
*** DocScrutinizer2 is now known as DocScrutinizer		15:17
mece	SpeedEvil, did you notice how, if it is checked, then unchecking can be done by clicking on the place where it didn't work to check it?	15:17
*** RST38h has joined #maemo		15:18
SpeedEvil	diddn'tnoticethat,no	15:18
SpeedEvil	I was just running through a list of 10 apps checking for obvious stuff.	15:18
*** dneary has quit IRC		15:19
*** gomiam has quit IRC		15:20
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: My landlord got mail from Helsinki for me	15:22
pupnik_	what about	15:22
DocScrutinizer	no idea, have to pick it up at him	15:23
*** eocanha has joined #maemo		15:23
Ikarus	from HEL, why on earth	15:23
*** eocanha2 has quit IRC		15:24
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		15:24
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: probably a cease and desist ;p	15:25
achipa	DocScrutinizer: did you by any change apply on the maemo developer device queue ?	15:25
*** tmartins has joined #maemo		15:25
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: lol, yeah	15:25
DocScrutinizer	achipa: maybe	15:25
achipa	DocScrutinizer: I'm a bit indecisive today... Or maybe not... :D	15:26
*** X-Fade has joined #maemo		15:26
*** xDaReaperx has quit IRC		15:26
X-Fade	Hmm nice power outage on my irc host.	15:27
*** Ken-Young has quit IRC		15:27
DocScrutinizer	achipa: I thought your question was implying the answer you could easly get from a /whois and a browser click to the related wikipage	15:27
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: ouch	15:28
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog	15:28
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		15:28
DocScrutinizer	:-)	15:28
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Yeah, no problem. Just annoying. Or nice and quiet, depends on how you look at it.	15:28
DocScrutinizer	:-D	15:29
pupnik_	hahahah	15:29
*** smhar has quit IRC		15:29
DocScrutinizer	I enyoied the hour silence yesterday, when crashy kicked me	15:29
*** alehorst has quit IRC		15:29
DocScrutinizer	enjoyed	15:29
achipa	X-Fade: no, the cannot-be-killed-frenzy-packages are annonying. It's definitely nice and quiet	15:29
X-Fade	achipa: Yeah, nice race condition.	15:30
*** angasule has joined #maemo		15:30
achipa	but my net is kooky, too, that's why I don't click around much... took well over a minute to log in to amazon aws...	15:30
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC		15:31
achipa	X-Fade: hey, the soccer part is still there, proud and zombie ! :)	15:31
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	15:31
X-Fade	achipa: Yeah, well actual file is gone now. It is just that the non-free Packages file needs to be re-generated.	15:31
DocScrutinizer	soccer will live on forever	15:31
achipa	X-Fade: ah, so THAT's why appwatch is crashing ;)	15:32
X-Fade	achipa: Which typically happens when someone promotes a non-free app to testing, which is not often ;)	15:32
X-Fade	achipa: So I have 2 options, spend quite some time to fix it. Or shrug and delete again in the interface in a few days ;)	15:33
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, pong?	15:33
* achipa envisions X-Fade doing tick-class shrugging all day long		15:33
*** Gizmokid2005\|AFK is now known as Gizmokid2005		15:34
DocScrutinizer	achipa: so after thinking thoroughly about it why I said "maybe", I came to the conclusion it's been the correct answer as I dunno what's in the package (or maybe it's even a letter)	15:34
*** alehorst has joined #maemo		15:34
DocScrutinizer	so, "yes, maybe it's related to my application for a devel dev"	15:35
DocScrutinizer	mooo GeneralAntilles :-)	15:36
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, howdy.	15:36
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		15:36
DocScrutinizer	fine, seen my ping to GAN900 ?	15:37
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, just now, yes, get it yet?	15:37
DocScrutinizer	have to wait til landlord is back again	15:37
DocScrutinizer	just got an email announcing 'mail from HEL'	15:38
GeneralAntilles	Ah, love it, Moto's beat Nokia to market with the Droid 2 with OMAP3630	15:38
GeneralAntilles	Apple's got a Cortex A9 blowing EVERYBODY away	15:39
GeneralAntilles	and Nokia's still shipping an ARM11 as their flagship. . . .	15:39
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Is that really an A9?	15:39
DocScrutinizer	It's NOT a flagship :-P	15:39
*** hrw has joined #maemo		15:39
*** juliank has joined #maemo		15:39
DocScrutinizer	honestly I don't give a damn shit	15:40
*** mece has left #maemo		15:40
* X-Fade wants more RAM more badly than a faster cpu.		15:40
*** tonikitoo has joined #maemo		15:40
DocScrutinizer	the OMAP3430 is fast enough for all I want to do on a mobile	15:40
sx0n	iirc it's not a9	15:40
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: ack	15:41
* RST38h yawns at the upcoming Apocalypsis for the Nokia		15:41
DocScrutinizer	bah, then we buy it for cheap money	15:41
X-Fade	N900 would be a lot more snappy when it had 512 or more.	15:41
DocScrutinizer	:-P	15:41
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: again ack	15:41
lcuk	werent you all saying the same about 810 -> 900 ?	15:42
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, A4, so, yeah, I believe so.	15:42
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: How are your soldering skills.	15:42
*** setanta has joined #maemo		15:42
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: That is A8?	15:42
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		15:42
* lcuk thinks 810 is enough grunt, the 900 is relaxing		15:42
DocScrutinizer	hmm, not THAT good	15:42
GeneralAntilles	A4 is the same thing as in the iPad.	15:42
* RST38h thinks N900 is slow like hell, but the CPU is not to blame for that		15:42
GeneralAntilles	Wait, is the A4 an A8?	15:43
*** TriztFromWork is now known as TriztAway		15:43
RST38h	yes it is	15:43
achipa	GeneralAntilles: pretty much	15:43
MohammadAG	isn't the iPhone using an A4?	15:43
sx0n	n900 is quite snappy with oc kernel.	15:43
GeneralAntilles	Aha, interesting.	15:43
X-Fade	In the Agenda VR3, people piggybacked additional ram chips on top of each other ;)	15:43
MohammadAG	and 512MB RAM	15:43
* GeneralAntilles has been mislead for a while now.		15:43
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: In the n900 too	15:43
DocScrutinizer	yeah ARM numbering is confusing like hell	15:43
*** TriztAway is now known as TriztFromWork		15:43
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		15:43
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, nah, it's not that. Stupid "journalists" are idiots.	15:43
*** sezuan has joined #maemo		15:44
tybollt	gan: this is the age of the intarwebz - everyone can be a "journalist" now... :-\|	15:44
tybollt	anyone, too	15:44
achipa	GeneralAntilles: http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=225700447	15:44
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: (piggyback) That's how the OMAP SoC is built	15:45
*** Clouseau has joined #maemo		15:45
*** srw has joined #maemo		15:45
*** ioeee has joined #maemo		15:46
sx0n	it stills generates lot of heat though.	15:46
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: that's why the worlbest soldering skills won't suffice to push up the RAM in N900. You can't reach the soldering spots to contact the membus	15:47
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Yeah, I know.	15:47
*** E0x has joined #maemo		15:48
DocScrutinizer	you could swap the SoC for a variant with 512MB RAM piggybacked to the core	15:48
DocScrutinizer	if you find a pincompatible variant	15:49
X-Fade	And are good at bga soldering ;)	15:49
DocScrutinizer	of course	15:49
*** swo has quit IRC		15:49
*** gaveen has joined #maemo		15:49
alterego	How about quicker swap?	15:49
DocScrutinizer	I'd bet for a yield < 1 out of 10	15:49
E0x	good morning	15:50
alterego	It'd be easier to hack some faster storage I would have thought	15:50
*** tekojo has quit IRC		15:50
DocScrutinizer	alterego: would mean swapping the eMMC. Could earn you a few percent I guess. Not more	15:50
X-Fade	Preventing swapping would help more.	15:51
DocScrutinizer	yep	15:51
*** mikki-kun has quit IRC		15:51
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo		15:51
*** Clouseau has quit IRC		15:51
X-Fade	Preloading all these apps doesn't help when you don't use them often.	15:51
* achipa wonders if swapping to a zippy external card would help, like on the N810		15:51
DocScrutinizer	overclocking !!! :-P	15:51
*** pablo2 has joined #maemo		15:52
X-Fade	I've been wanting to test with disabling most preloaded apps.	15:52
X-Fade	Or prestarted rather.	15:52
*** fcorrea has quit IRC		15:52
*** mikki-kun has joined #maemo		15:52
alterego	Can we sort downloads on maemo.org site by download count? would be handy to know the most popular for QA testing ...	15:52
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: really interesting topic. I thought about same	15:52
X-Fade	alterego: /downloads/	15:53
X-Fade	alterego: instead of /updated/ for instance.	15:53
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil elaborated on this several times now	15:53
*** SpComb has joined #maemo		15:54
DocScrutinizer	in ML, and maybe even in tmo. Here even more often then there	15:54
SpComb	is it possible to do i386 builds of packages that use libqtm in extras-devel?	15:55
DocScrutinizer	there's even scripts to do some sum up	15:55
SpComb	the autobuilder seems to trip over on installing libqtm-dev as part of the Build-Depends	15:55
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: url?	15:56
SpComb	i.e. armel build runs fine, but i386 build fails	15:56
X-Fade	SpComb: ^^	15:56
SpComb	e.g. https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/wordpress_0.6.97/	15:56
SpComb	doesn't seem like it's the only package with the same issue either	15:58
X-Fade	SpComb: Checking..	15:58
*** cjdavis has joined #maemo		15:58
SpComb	https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-June/023952.html <-- 0.6.97-2 with only the armel arch built fine	16:00
*** Clouseau has joined #maemo		16:00
*** mikki-kun has quit IRC		16:02
*** mikki-kun has joined #maemo		16:04
jacekowski	X-Fade: going back to my builder	16:04
*** Sargun has quit IRC		16:05
jacekowski	X-Fade: i think my sources.list is little bit incorrect	16:05
*** Clouseau has quit IRC		16:06
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		16:07
jacekowski	well, not sources.list but config_opts['sources.list']	16:08
*** etrunko has quit IRC		16:08
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/how_many_times_each_application_is_downloaded_from_extras-devel/	16:08
X-Fade	jacekowski: Just start with """ and end with """	16:09
*** tonikitoo has quit IRC		16:09
X-Fade	jacekowski: And have your regular sources.list stuff in there.	16:09
MohammadAG	X-Fade, when does the importer run again?	16:09
jacekowski	X-Fade: well, content is incorrect	16:09
X-Fade	jacekowski: We have local repos, but you can just point to repository.m.o?	16:10
jacekowski	i can't pull whole nokia-binaries repository easily unfortunatelly	16:10
jacekowski	so well, i'll have to point it to r.m.o	16:10
X-Fade	jacekowski: You don't need to.	16:10
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		16:10
*** benh has quit IRC		16:11
X-Fade	jacekowski: As you can just add the one from scratchbox with your eula key?	16:11
*** Terje_ has quit IRC		16:11
X-Fade	jacekowski: I just don't add the live one as to not expose the key etc.	16:11
X-Fade	MohammadAG: It is back to normal for a while now.	16:12
*** avs has quit IRC		16:12
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: yes?	16:12
MohammadAG	X-Fade, :05 and :35 right?	16:12
X-Fade	MohammadAG: ish, yes.	16:12
jacekowski	btw. is it fremantle or fremantle1.2 now?	16:13
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: I assumed your query was about DocScrutinizers mention of my posts to the ml - post is at the end of that thread	16:13
*** merlin_phone has quit IRC		16:13
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: I have the separate data for every file in every repo.	16:13
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: basically around the issue that there is only one global downloads counter - or at least ones that are known of - that counts everything	16:14
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: I've said multiple times that the counter adds up all repos ;)	16:14
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		16:14
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: As that is only fair.	16:14
SpeedEvil	Indeed. Is that available seperately?	16:14
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Someone who has the app installed from -devel won't install it from Extras.	16:15
SpeedEvil	Sure. But being able to work out what proportion of users have the app installed from extras-devel/testing/extras has not got no value.	16:15
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: It has anecdotal value, but really..	16:16
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC		16:16
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Was just going to ask if you had any time to flesh out the issue; but it's gone now :)	16:16
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: the raw number of downloads is almost worthless	16:17
GAN900	Jaffa, yeah, I was long abed at that point.	16:18
*** balor has joined #maemo		16:18
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: Indeed - that's a slightly debatable value - the real interesting bit would be it would help to pull apart the number of users with an app installed.	16:18
*** ioeee has quit IRC		16:18
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: But why would you really want to know that? :)	16:18
balor	Is gstreamer-plugins-flac available for OS2008/N810?	16:18
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: Consider an app with 5 releases. The total of downloads is 130000	16:18
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: What would you do with the data.	16:18
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: You want to know the number of users	16:18
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: How do you do this? Other than attempting to integrate the downloads per day graph.	16:19
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: There is no real way of knowing that as we don't know if it is a clean install or an upgrade.	16:19
SpeedEvil	Of course not.	16:19
X-Fade	So everything you do is just useless ;)	16:19
X-Fade	Well there is lies and there are statistics ;)	16:19
SpeedEvil	But 'version x.y was downloaded 1000 times from extras, 800 times from extras-devel' is a pretty close proxy for the number of users.	16:19
DocScrutinizer	o arguably the whole number wanking is useless then	16:20
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: I really think we should put our effort somewhere else.	16:20
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Graph is nice to look at, but really nothing more.	16:20
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: Indeed - I'm not arguing on spending any major effor whatsoever.	16:20
SpeedEvil	I'm wondering if the files would be easy to make accessible - or not.	16:21
*** yerga has quit IRC		16:21
SpeedEvil	If not - then I completely agree it is not worth it	16:21
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Splitting this out and providing proper analysis is a ton of work.	16:21
vldcnst	Coffee anyone?	16:21
DocScrutinizer	here please	16:21
X-Fade	I'd rather get OBS in place in the same amount of time.	16:21
*** e-yes has quit IRC		16:21
X-Fade	Or another usefull feature which benefits most people.	16:21
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: Ok - I was more meaning raw logs for people to parse. If they're not available, I quite agree.	16:22
*** tbf has quit IRC		16:22
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: devent numbers for devels of commercial sw to rely on, that is something every user benefits from in long term	16:22
DocScrutinizer	decent even	16:23
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Yes, but there is not much of a long term.	16:23
DocScrutinizer	hmm	16:23
X-Fade	Our time is limited and in the meego scope everything changes radically.	16:24
RST38h	The Telegraph has today answered those most pressing questions of the age: just what does Kim Jong-Il inspecting a radish look like, and when he inspects a radish, what conclusion can be drawn from the encounter?	16:24
*** fcorrea has joined #maemo		16:24
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo		16:25
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: And besides, I'm pretty sure the way we measure things now is how every store shows their data.	16:25
*** radic_ has joined #maemo		16:26
*** dneary has joined #maemo		16:26
aboyer_	has anyone used the texture streaming module (bc_cat) from TI to perform texture streaming on the N900? I've managed to compile the kernel module but when using it, it crashes the device...	16:26
*** diegohcg has joined #maemo		16:26
eitama	X-Fade, Got 3 minutes for a question about the auto-builder?	16:27
*** radic__ has quit IRC		16:28
toggles_w	anyone have any sort of guess as to what sort of % of people here are running at 900mhz?	16:28
Appiah	900? all the time?	16:28
vldcnst	Under 5%, I'd say.	16:28
toggles_w	thanks.. any failures?	16:29
X-Fade	eitama: sure	16:29
eitama	I ran at 900 for 1 month	16:29
eitama	then i moved to 1000 (:	16:29
eitama	been using 1000 since then	16:29
eitama	flawlessly	16:29
vldcnst	Yet...	16:29
eitama	X-Fade: I just uploaded a package to extras-devel	16:29
*** sezuan has quit IRC		16:29
eitama	it's written in Qt	16:29
eitama	and uses dbus	16:30
timeless_mbp	toggles_w: there have been oil wells operating in the Gulf of Mexico for years	16:30
eitama	to make it build, i had to add /usr/include something	16:30
timeless_mbp	with 0 failures through 2009, [hypothetically]	16:30
toggles_w	lol	16:30
eitama	to the pro file	16:30
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: err - no	16:30
timeless_mbp	toggles_w: thus, it was absolutely safe to run an oil well in 2010	16:30
eitama	I didn't have to do that same for QContacts	16:30
DocScrutinizer	eitama: you just voided any possible ticket about app instabilities or erratic behaviour of the whole OS	16:30
eitama	Hmmm	16:31
SpeedEvil	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I_oil_spill timeless_mbp	16:31
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: the point stands even if the example is inaccurate	16:31
eitama	DocScrutinizer: what exactly do you mean I voided?	16:31
toggles_w	eitama: thanks	16:31
SpeedEvil	ah - missed that	16:31
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo		16:31
eitama	DocScrutinizer: you mean my warrenty?	16:32
jacekowski	X-Fade: you are running buildme from cron?	16:32
SpeedEvil	eitama: I think DocScrutinizer got you mixed up with overclocker guy	16:32
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: we can change my example to say 'BP has operated' :)	16:32
DocScrutinizer	eitama: I mean "don't come here whining about any problem with your apps or OS or device in general" and also I'll add that to any ticket opened by you	16:32
X-Fade	jacekowski: yes	16:32
jacekowski	X-Fade: or some inotify based thingy?	16:32
SpeedEvil	oops	16:32
SpeedEvil	ignore me	16:32
SpeedEvil	(about that)	16:32
vldcnst	brain lag again!	16:32
*** bigbrovar_ has quit IRC		16:32
X-Fade	jacekowski: Cron, was working on inotify but that got delayed by my OBS work.	16:32
lcuk	timeless_mbp, ping	16:33
eitama	DocScrutinizer: do you mean like, don't come asking for help at a nokia service point? or at TMO?	16:33
*** frals_ has joined #maemo		16:33
DocScrutinizer	anywhere	16:33
timeless_mbp	pong	16:33
eitama	DocScrutinizer: What do you mean "i'll add that to any ticket opened by you?"	16:33
DocScrutinizer	your device will start to randomly fail in weird manner	16:33
eitama	almost sounds like a threat	16:33
*** Termana has quit IRC		16:34
eitama	I really don't understand what you want, please be more precise	16:34
timeless_mbp	eitama: if you take a device and give it water damage	16:34
DocScrutinizer	eitama: "comment #2 by joerg: This ticket is based on a device known to be overclocked to 1000 for extended periods. I suggest close as INVALID"	16:34
timeless_mbp	and then come to me and say "i'm having trouble w/ the usb port"	16:34
toggles_w	timeless_mbp: did that, put mine in the washing machine, still runs, tought little bugger	16:34
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		16:34
*** mardi has joined #maemo		16:35
timeless_mbp	toggles_w: i'm pretty sure you'll find that the user guide says not to do that	16:35
eitama	Lets go back to point zero.	16:35
eitama	I opened mirc	16:35
toggles_w	yeah, took three days to dry out and about a month for the notification light to stop glowing	16:35
eitama	saw someone ask how many people are running @ 900	16:35
eitama	and he also asked if there are any flaws	16:35
eitama	is that correct so far?	16:35
toggles_w	yup, was me	16:35
eitama	so i pointed	16:36
eitama	that personnaly	16:36
eitama	I am running at 1000	16:36
eitama	and was running @ 900	16:36
eitama	and i have no problems	16:36
eitama	I'd like to know	16:36
DocScrutinizer	but you WILL have	16:36
eitama	whats wrong with what I did - lol	16:36
timeless_mbp	eitama: our point is that you're probably voiding the warranty	16:36
eitama	I don't have warrenty anyway	16:36
toggles_w	not probably	16:36
timeless_mbp	so when you later come to a bug tracker and report a problem	16:36
DocScrutinizer	eitama: "comment #2 by joerg: This ticket is based on a device known to be overclocked to 1000 for extended periods. I suggest close as INVALID"	16:36
*** tgalal has joined #maemo		16:37
eitama	Oh	16:37
*** zap has quit IRC		16:37
eitama	so you mean that I shouldn't open the bugs.maemo.org anymore cause I overclock my phone?	16:37
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC		16:37
timeless_mbp	you shouldn't complain about anything anywhere	16:37
pupnik_	haha	16:37
eitama	lol	16:37
eitama	you kids	16:38
timeless_mbp	sorry	16:38
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		16:38
DocScrutinizer	you are on your own, as you damaged the device intentionally	16:38
*** fr01b has left #maemo		16:38
X-Fade	eitama: reproducing bugs might be a lot harder when devices are not the same.	16:38
timeless_mbp	i have a hard enough time dealing with normal users	16:38
*** mardi has left #maemo		16:38
tybollt	does my phonecall end faster if I overclock?	16:38
tybollt	:D	16:38
timeless_mbp	people who intentionally damage their device do not have any right to my time	16:38
DocScrutinizer	tybollt: basically yes	16:38
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: :D	16:38
*** haltdef_ has quit IRC		16:38
timeless_mbp	and should do me and the community the courtesy of not trying to spend it	16:38
MohammadAG	tybollt, and the guy on the other side of the phone might implode	16:39
lcuk	eitama, you can open it, you can even file bugs, but when people ask if theres anything special about your phone they may not be as willing to spend time diagnosing the problem because it could be induced by out of spec hardware	16:39
vldcnst	einval: IIRC, the stock 600MHz is already overclocked. Clocking it beyond that will damage it in time more than you'd guess. It's a sensible chip with poor heat disspiation, and it was not designed to run at those frequencies.	16:39
*** eocanha2 has joined #maemo		16:39
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC		16:39
*** eocanha has quit IRC		16:39
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: we need to have dynamic overclocking so you can link it to when mum calls or whatever :)	16:39
MohammadAG	vldcnst, afaik the 600MHz clock speed is default	16:39
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		16:40
vldcnst	MohammadAG: I read that somewhere, I don't know exactly where tho. something about 550mhz, was in a pif.	16:40
vldcnst	pdf*	16:40
MohammadAG	not sure, pings DocScrutinizer	16:40
eitama	DocScrutinizer	16:40
DocScrutinizer	eitama: vldcnst: and the chip literally wears out, so you not having problems now doesn't mean you won't have any tomorrow	16:41
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		16:42
DocScrutinizer	600 is temporary max clock speed which the system tries to keep as short as possible afaik	16:42
vldcnst	einval: I suggest you google 'mtfb'. Your n900 mtfb hours are drastically being reduced by overclocking.	16:42
eitama	DocScrutinizer: While your point is very valid, and may also be true, there is a way of expressing your opinion/thought towards other people. You rude choosing of words bring me to a state of mind that makes me uncomfortable	16:42
DocScrutinizer	it's considered to be reliable operation but will burn out the cpu over time	16:42
timeless_mbp	eitama: he didn't say go to hell	16:42
timeless_mbp	which might be more suitable	16:42
tybollt	vldcnst: Mean Time Failure Between?	16:42
*** fr01b has joined #maemo		16:43
tybollt	vldcnst: how about you get your acronyms right :)	16:43
vldcnst	mtbf*	16:43
vldcnst	tybollt: slap me.	16:43
eitama	I see	16:43
toggles_w	DocScrutinizer: wears out? due to heat?	16:43
eitama	ok	16:43
DocScrutinizer	eitama: that's been the intention, as overclockers make us all here feel same discomfort	16:43
* tybollt slaps vldcnst and calls him suzy		16:43
MohammadAG	~electromigration	16:43
MohammadAG	fu infobot	16:43
DocScrutinizer	toggles_w: due to an effect known as electromigration	16:44
tybollt	~MohammadAG	16:44
infobot	mohammadag is probably special	16:44
tybollt	:D	16:44
toggles_w	DocScrutinizer: thanks, will google	16:44
eitama	1st of all, I am not overclockers. I am an overclocker, so take your hatred and direct it to where ever you want, but not to me.	16:44
DocScrutinizer	toggles_w: wikipedia has a good article	16:44
lcuk	eitama, no hatred	16:44
MohammadAG	~electromigration is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration	16:44
infobot	MohammadAG: okay	16:44
toggles_w	DocScrutinizer: thanks again	16:44
lcuk	just pointing out issues	16:44
DocScrutinizer	toggles_w: yw	16:44
eitama	2nd: It may very well be, that I have never thought about the fact that my results for specific testing might be altered by me overclocking, that doesn't mean I am doing it on purpose, and nor I should suffer you tone.	16:45
toggles_w	so if I OC to 900 do you think my n900 will wear out before the n9 with meego arrives?	16:45
timeless_mbp	eitama: we do not want to suffer your complaints later	16:45
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer and co are trying to protect me, and my fellow engineers	16:45
timeless_mbp	and we appreciate their efforts	16:45
flux	in any case, if the bug has good reproduction instructions, it will likely be verified by non-overclockers as well. if it doesn't, it will likely get ignored anyway.	16:46
MohammadAG	toggles_w, it might wear out in 10 minutes, today, tomorrow, next week/month/year, no one knows	16:46
eitama	timeless_mbp: I understand your request, but there is another manner of requesting that.	16:46
nidO	toggles_w, likelyhood says probably not, but then you might have the shit luck to have the device that packs up tomorrow after clocking to 900.	16:46
*** e-yes has quit IRC		16:46
tybollt	toggles_w: I think the thing is ... "do what the fuck you want with YOUR device - just don't bother the rest of us w/ it"	16:46
toggles_w	dammit, might have to buy another..	16:46
MohammadAG	not sure who posted the lifetimes, but they were 10 years for 500MHz, 5 years for 600	16:46
MohammadAG	or so	16:46
toggles_w	thanks for the input guys, sorry to have turned the channel into t.m.o	16:46
vldcnst	MohammadAG: thats probably what I read.	16:47
MohammadAG	10 years for 550*	16:47
timeless_mbp	toggles_w: apologies appreciated :)	16:47
flux	docscrutinizer, I take it this also means an owner of a second-hand n900 can never submit bug reports, because they cannot be sure the device has never been overclocked.	16:47
E0x	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=500800#post500800 <--- that need a gui	16:47
DocScrutinizer	flux: that's one of the more nasty implications of the whole fsckng OC topic, yes	16:47
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		16:47
MohammadAG	so basically, 2.5 years 650MHz, 1.25 700MHz, 0.524 years 750MHz, 0250 years 800 (rough estimates - no tests to prove them)	16:48
SpeedEvil	E0x: queen beecon	16:48
MohammadAG	0.250*	16:48
X-Fade	SpComb: ok, found the problem.	16:48
X-Fade	SpComb: Somehow the Qt people thought it was a good idea to put the qtm libs in the sdk/tools repo.	16:48
flux	mohammadag, is the time for running the device continuously at that clock rate?	16:48
pupnik_	MohammadAG: but the OC'd device won't be running at 900mhz all the time	16:48
E0x	SpeedEvil: config guy	16:48
MohammadAG	flux, yes	16:49
nidO	flux, yes, so in practical terms your usage should be much much longer	16:49
nidO	or itll die the first time it tries to step up to those clock speeds	16:49
DocScrutinizer	flux: yes	16:49
MohammadAG	same as LCD TVs I guess, 8000h lifetime	16:49
E0x	err s/guy/gui/g	16:49
eitama	DocScrutinizer: I am not saying your point is invalid. I am saying that if you chosen your words more wisely, for example : "eitama: Overcloking your device may produce unpredicted outcomes, if you open bugs or complain about errors, please mention that your device is overclocked, so we can take that into consideration"	16:49
eitama	It could have been a bit more confortable	16:50
eitama	I'd say, good idea	16:50
eitama	Will do	16:50
eitama	or soemthing like that	16:50
achipa	X-Fade: shouldn't that (qtm) be nokia apps ?	16:50
X-Fade	achipa: That is for the device.	16:50
*** plastun has quit IRC		16:50
* MohammadAG still likes infobot's overclocking definition		16:50
X-Fade	achipa: Not sdk.	16:50
MohammadAG	~overclocking	16:50
infobot	"OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?"	16:50
DocScrutinizer	eitama: sorry, but we all are kinda fed up with the whole OC topic by now	16:50
DocScrutinizer	eitama: nothing personal	16:50
*** plastun has joined #maemo		16:50
MohammadAG	and vldcnst didn't get DocScrutinizer his coffee :)	16:50
SpComb	X-Fade: right, and I have the sdk/tools repos on my local build env	16:51
eitama	Well, it's not my fault, i didn't create, not the mod, not the package, and not the idea	16:51
DocScrutinizer	how true	16:51
*** FSCV has joined #maemo		16:51
DocScrutinizer	eitama: I know	16:51
X-Fade	SpComb: Yeah, but obviously the builder hasn't.	16:51
eitama	And overclocking has not stopped me from responding on TMO, helping people out	16:51
eitama	many times	16:51
eitama	is my help also questioned?	16:51
X-Fade	SpComb: As it isn't supposed to.	16:51
eitama	cause I am overcloking?	16:51
SpComb	although hmm, I should probably fix my sbdmock to remove those, the example fremantle config that I found included them for whatever reason	16:51
MohammadAG	eitama, chill m8	16:51
eitama	maybe running apt-get install (&*YIUYIUYIUY is not the right command? cause I am overclocking	16:52
eitama	?	16:52
DocScrutinizer	eitama: and I had quite some debates with the one who did. But he claims he got the right thing, just like Smith&Wesson	16:52
eitama	Well, I didn't	16:52
eitama	I didn't claim anything	16:52
DocScrutinizer	eitama: it's up to the users to understand OC implications	16:52
eitama	so your beef is with him	16:52
SpComb	which kind of spoils the point in sbdmock :)	16:52
eitama	and not with me	16:52
achipa	X-Fade: but... nokia apps should still be there too, right ? is it not part of the nokia-binary-evil-whatnot-repo-group ?	16:52
X-Fade	achipa: no.	16:52
eitama	DocScrutinizer: I understand the implications that my phone may not turn on tomorrow.	16:52
X-Fade	achipa: nokia apps != nokia binaries.	16:52
X-Fade	achipa: Nokia apps is only intended to be used on device.	16:53
*** flo_lap has quit IRC		16:53
DocScrutinizer	eitama: please take my apologies for maybe insulting you or being rude.	16:53
eitama	DocScrutinizer: and now, I also understand that when I report a bug, it might be a side product of overclocking	16:53
* SpComb wonders what the proper sources.list for fremantle sbdmock is		16:53
MohammadAG	can we just put down the OC topic?	16:53
eitama	DocScrutinizer: Thank you.	16:53
MohammadAG	please?	16:53
X-Fade	achipa: So firmware + nokia-apps + ssu = sdk + nokia binaries	16:53
vldcnst	Coffee!	16:53
achipa	X-Fade: sooo THAT's why FN people wanted to push it to extras-devel...	16:53
* MohammadAG gets his shotgun, vldcnst where's mine!		16:53
X-Fade	achipa: Yes.	16:53
jacekowski	nah, whatever i do it fails on dependencies	16:54
X-Fade	achipa: Because they made a mess in the first place.	16:54
X-Fade	achipa: again	16:54
achipa	X-Fade: what else is new :)	16:54
eitama	And just for the record : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9442	16:54
povbot	Bug 9442: Media Player volume briefly spikes up when usb cable is connected	16:54
eitama	reported by me	16:54
eitama	reproduced by other people	16:54
achipa	X-Fade: but fear not, more mess incoming, another team should land qtm-experimental-* stuff (if they havent already)	16:54
eitama	i don't see anyone asking them if they are overclocking or not	16:54
MohammadAG	yes, the USB cable being connected raises the CPU to 500MHz	16:54
X-Fade	achipa: Yeah, it is just annoying that we always have to come up with fixes.	16:55
X-Fade	achipa: My guess is that qtm was not really supported enough to put it in sdk, so they sneaked it in somewhere else.	16:56
*** panaggio has joined #maemo		16:56
*** TheNewAndy has quit IRC		16:57
achipa	X-Fade: I would tend to agree with your guess :)	16:57
achipa	X-Fade: (but I'm not guessing, I know that for a fact ;) )	16:57
* MohammadAG ponders if there is a way to disable the green text at boot up (R&D mode) - or delay the framebuffer console a bit		16:57
jacekowski	http://pastebin.com/Jdyjkdzr	16:58
jacekowski	that's my problem	16:58
jacekowski	ehh	16:58
jacekowski	i just realised that i pasted my key	16:58
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		16:58
jacekowski	well, i don't care	16:58
X-Fade	jacekowski: Just delete the post?	16:59
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo		16:59
jacekowski	i don't think i can	16:59
*** andre__ has quit IRC		16:59
jacekowski	besides, googling for that key	16:59
DocScrutinizer	eitama: please take it now that OC is a major PITA as we for damn sure will see reports about random misbehaviour that are caused by OC damaged devices. And really nobody but TI and maybe Nokia could tell for sure	16:59
MohammadAG	umm	16:59
jacekowski	About 214 results (0.22 seconds)	16:59
* vldcnst yells MohammadAG: don't shoot! it has your name on it, ready to be served. blame it on fedex! http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4151/coffeeb.jpg		16:59
MohammadAG	is the key generator borked?	16:59
jacekowski	i'm not the first one to do it	16:59
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		16:59
DocScrutinizer	eitama: that does not mean all bug reports are void from now on	16:59
jacekowski	MohammadAG: i think everybody has the same one	16:59
MohammadAG	jacekowski, mine's the same...	17:00
jacekowski	MohammadAG: type it into google	17:00
DocScrutinizer	and now please listen to MohammadAG and drop that nasty topic	17:00
jacekowski	MohammadAG: and you will get like 10 pages of results	17:00
* MohammadAG shoots vldcnst's mug, LIES!		17:00
achipa	X-Fade: well, it has good chances for being included in the 'PE1 SDK update', whatever that is	17:00
MohammadAG	jacekowski, thus raising the question, <MohammadAG> is the key generator borked?	17:00
X-Fade	achipa: Yeah, next sdk.	17:00
MohammadAG	I remember it gave me different keys	17:01
lcuk	achipa, what are we including	17:01
achipa	lcuk: qtm	17:01
lcuk	aww vldcnst you made MohammadAG a special cup	17:01
lcuk	achipa, being?	17:02
lcuk	not the open source blogging client	17:02
achipa	lcuk: QtMobility	17:02
* MohammadAG slaps lcuk with a frals		17:02
*** Venemo1 has joined #maemo		17:02
frals_	oi im trying to work over here!	17:02
lcuk	makes sense then	17:02
DocScrutinizer	eitama: and	17:02
DocScrutinizer	[2010-06-21 15:42:54] <timeless_mbp> eitama: he didn't say go to hell	17:02
DocScrutinizer	[2010-06-21 15:42:58] <timeless_mbp> which might be more suitable	17:02
*** N900evil has joined #maemo		17:02
lcuk	can someone in the NRC find frals and drop some extra work on his desk ;)	17:02
X-Fade	Ah, forgot to do that when I was there ;)	17:03
achipa	lcuk: except for the part of people not being able to push qtm stuff now :)	17:03
*** Venemo has quit IRC		17:03
*** murrayc has quit IRC		17:03
eitama	lol	17:03
eitama	i'm done arguing	17:03
MohammadAG	aww	17:03
MohammadAG	I haven't finished my popcorn yet	17:04
eitama	lol	17:04
*** sergio__ has quit IRC		17:04
frals_	lcuk: :D	17:04
frals_	lcuk: none knows where im sitting! cept valerio but hes in sweden i think :D	17:04
SpComb	X-Fade: why do all the fremantle sbdmock config examples I can find out there include sdk/tools in the sources.list, then?	17:05
lcuk	lol frals_	17:05
SpComb	nobody just ever wrote a sane one?	17:05
* MohammadAG traces frals_'s IP		17:05
*** N900evil has joined #maemo		17:05
*** marciom has joined #maemo		17:05
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		17:05
*** plastun has quit IRC		17:05
frals_	oh.. forgot to identify with nickserv before joining, doh!	17:06
*** N900evil has quit IRC		17:06
*** baraujo has joined #maemo		17:06
vldcnst	"Overclocking - make your N900 run like it should". Laugh.	17:08
*** msanchez_afk is now known as msanchez		17:08
*** jayabharath has joined #maemo		17:09
lcuk	vldcnst, my n900 has run like it should from day 1	17:09
vldcnst	Mine too!	17:09
lcuk	from before day1 infact	17:09
lcuk	good!	17:09
MohammadAG	mine ran good - till yesterday	17:10
lcuk	what did you do?	17:10
vldcnst	Shotgun practice?	17:10
eitama	n900 fly	17:10
MohammadAG	not sure, but it's most probably my fault	17:10
MohammadAG	lcuk, load goes up randomly, I saw it was 17.00-ish yesterday	17:11
*** MikeK has quit IRC		17:11
frals_	hmm	17:11
lcuk	its always your fault, hacking is fun tho :D	17:11
MohammadAG	:)	17:12
alterego	Good point, back to hacking ..	17:12
lcuk	now you just have to find out what you did so no1 else has it happen to htem	17:12
MohammadAG	lcuk, I installed Windows 7 in qemu	17:12
lcuk	on device?	17:13
*** frals_ has quit IRC		17:13
MohammadAG	alterego, you do know your app could be of other's benefit, just add an echo %s %t and make it echo the song name + artist to a file	17:13
MohammadAG	lcuk, yeah	17:13
alterego	MohammadAG: don't want to use DBUS? :P	17:14
lcuk	MohammadAG, well that would increase load substantially - has it finished booting up yet>	17:14
alterego	MohammadAG: I think, if I was going to do that, I'd probably use gconf actually ...	17:14
MohammadAG	alterego, your app does, why should other's :P	17:14
* MohammadAG gets his shotgun again		17:14
MohammadAG	alterego, gconf?	17:14
MohammadAG	lcuk, yeah, it's at "Preparing your desktop"	17:14
alterego	Sure, maintain mafw status in gconf is probably better than writing random strings to a file :P	17:15
alterego	And just as easy to poke at with gconftool-2 in scripts.	17:15
* MohammadAG recoils shotgun		17:15
alterego	I'll put it in 0.3 (next version) and document it, good call btw :P	17:15
DocScrutinizer	eitama: there's a lot of warnings and of explanations about OC implications all over the place, some of them quite to the point, others fuzzy and inaccurate. Now that you understood the problem with OC, you could do all fellow users a big favour and think about why you didn't run into them or were ignoring them or whatever, and then maybe fix it in a way you think it should have been so you had known about it before we ran into this little	17:15
DocScrutinizer	dispute here. That's obviously something quite hard to do for dudes like me who already know about all the details and can't figure what's the usual route for a 'noob' (no insult intended) to come to OC	17:16
* MohammadAG fires		17:16
lcuk	lol MohammadAG	17:16
*** radic__ has joined #maemo		17:16
alterego	MohammadAG: okay, okay ,what if I create a fuse filesystem you can mount that has the current status of mafw as files under it, as I'd lay it out in gconf :P	17:17
lcuk	who (in england) is betting all the news reports about rampant foxes running wild biting people will mean fox hunting will make a big come back!	17:17
MohammadAG	alterego, no, write the song's name to /dev/mtd0, who needs a bootloader anyways	17:17
*** kamui__ has joined #maemo		17:17
alterego	Hah	17:17
MohammadAG	lcuk, me	17:18
lcuk	nothing like pitchforks and maining innocent children to allow savage pack of dogs and howling through the countryside on horseback	17:18
* MohammadAG wonders how DocScrutinizer would post 140-letter tweets		17:18
*** radic_ has quit IRC		17:18
DocScrutinizer	no way	17:19
MohammadAG	it probably won't let you sign up anyways	17:19
*** jayabharath has quit IRC		17:20
* MohammadAG sens DocScrutinizer a facebook invitation and runs for his life		17:20
MohammadAG	sends*	17:20
vldcnst	illy = godsent.	17:20
*** polymar has quit IRC		17:20
*** balor has quit IRC		17:20
DocScrutinizer	x.o -> aim and FIRE	17:21
*** fcrozat is now known as fcrozat_		17:21
*** kW_ has joined #maemo		17:21
*** shinkamui has quit IRC		17:21
*** fcrozat_ is now known as fcrozat		17:21
kW_	Hello! How do I make the N900 calendar notify me some defined time before an event?	17:22
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, didnt i see you on twitter :D	17:22
*** fcrozat is now known as fcrozat\|gone		17:22
*** fcrozat\|gone is now known as fcrozat\|lunch		17:22
*** fcrozat\|lunch is now known as fcrozat\|home		17:22
*** fcrozat\|home is now known as fcrozat		17:22
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: nah, the irc-twitter gateway attributed to me as initiator is a hoax	17:23
lcuk	i would really like that tbh	17:23
marmoute	kW_: if you ask him too	17:23
kW_	marmoute: how?	17:23
marmoute	kW_: by setting the Alarm section of the event ?	17:24
DocScrutinizer	kW_: dunno if it can be done. I suggest the incredible alarmed app	17:24
kW_	marmoute: well, there does not seem to be any "Alarm section" of the event	17:25
vldcnst	Look closer.	17:25
*** Xisdibik has quit IRC		17:26
DocScrutinizer	kW_: calendar just has 0, 5, 15min in advance	17:26
vldcnst	DocScrutinizer: +30min, 1h, 3h, 1d	17:26
kW_	DocScrutinizer: that would suffice, but in the "Edit event" dialog, I just get the fields "Title", "Where", "All day", "From", "To", "Calendar", "Description"	17:26
DocScrutinizer	oops, yes. had alarm time set to 25min to the future	17:27
marmoute	kW_: yes there is	17:27
eitama	DocScrutinizer: The dispute was not about me not agreeing with you about the potential problems OC might have about me reporting bugs in bugzilla, or filing a warrenty claim @ nokias. It was ONLY about the way you presented the problem before me. Thats all. Anyway, everyone has bad days, i guess today is yours, and I accept your apology. I'll take a look at the OC wiki, and I'll add a line about reporting bugs/errors.	17:28
vldcnst	kW_: What is between Caledan and Description?	17:28
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo		17:28
DocScrutinizer	kW_: between calendar and description there's the button for alarm	17:28
*** b-man has joined #maemo		17:28
kW_	DocScrutinizer: nothing	17:28
vldcnst	Screenshots!	17:29
DocScrutinizer	eitama: thanks, highly appreciated	17:29
*** liori has quit IRC		17:30
kW_	I'm just trying to produce a screenshot...	17:30
eitama	DocScrutinizer: Np.	17:30
DocScrutinizer	lol - that's funny how xchat rises a mini-dialog "are you sure" when you click the mini-closebutton on the mini-window in taskswitcher	17:30
*** haltdef has joined #maemo		17:31
ZogG	DocScrutinizer what button?	17:32
DocScrutinizer	eitama: just make sure everybody understands the fact of OC permanently damaging the device, even when you haven't noticed it during the time you overclocked	17:32
eitama	DocScrutinizer: I'll make sure it's written :) it's not always the case though.	17:33
ZogG	DocScrutinizer i overclocked and my eggs were never burned too much, as well i like to make coffee with my N900 (to boil water at least)	17:33
DocScrutinizer	ZogG: taskswitcher (ctrl-bs), then click on xchat's [x] upper right	17:33
kW_	how do I actually create a screenshot? Shift+Ctrl+P does not seem to work	17:33
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, i know the drum needs banging, but about 2 hours ago eitama bowed before you and you all made up :P what caused the continuing barrage? :D	17:33
eitama	DocScrutinizer: I had an ATI1950pro that ran at 103 Degrees Celcius Overclocked with just a fan for 2 years before it fried.	17:33
ZogG	kW_ have youc cheked folder for files?	17:33
ZogG	it's screenshot folder	17:33
pupnik_	different chips behave differently	17:33
ZogG	afaik	17:33
kW_	hmm, I think I found it :-)	17:34
ZogG	pupnik_ but Chip and Dale are the best	17:34
marmoute	ZogG: expecialy to kill dragoons	17:34
X-Fade	eitama: TI spec sheets state MTBF goes from years to months.	17:34
*** liori has joined #maemo		17:34
*** tgalal has quit IRC		17:35
X-Fade	Pretty sure TI doesn't want to lie to people buying milions of their cpus :)	17:35
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC		17:36
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: I'm not arguing with eitama any longer. I just asked him to improve the wiki or whatever he sees would need it, so other users don't run into the same	17:36
lcuk	indeed	17:36
kW_	screenshot: http://imagebin.ca/view/ffGEIQD.html	17:36
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		17:36
eitama	X-Fade: MTBF ?	17:37
*** willer_ has joined #maemo		17:37
DocScrutinizer	kW_: ctrl-sh-p works usually great for me. You just need to find the screenshot file	17:37
eitama	Minimum Time Before Fry?	17:37
madduck	is there an ssh-agent for the n900 that i just cannot find?	17:37
eitama	(:	17:37
eitama	madduck: you mean client?	17:37
kW_	DocScrutinizer: well, I found it :-)	17:37
eitama	madduck: open-ssh	17:37
madduck	eitama: no, agent. auth agent.	17:37
madduck	ssh-agent	17:38
eitama	madduck: Can't help ya (:	17:38
vldcnst	kW_: have you tried changing the day of the alarm?	17:38
vldcnst	kW_: or the hour.	17:38
kW_	vldcnst: yes	17:38
DocScrutinizer	kW_: yep, I'm lagging. Busy unpacking a package from HEL :-))	17:38
kW_	vldcnst: well, the day of the event	17:38
vldcnst	kW_: weird.	17:38
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		17:39
kW_	yes, weird	17:39
DocScrutinizer	eitama: OC damage on OMAP isn't due to overtemp (though high temp helps in making the effect worse). You can create partial shortcircuit in a single transistor of the CPU by OC even when you freeze the device and keep the SoC at <0°C. It's called electromigration and it's a nonreversible slowly building up effect	17:40
*** liori has quit IRC		17:40
*** andrenarchy has quit IRC		17:40
*** sar3th\|away is now known as sar3th		17:40
kW_	I think I got it	17:40
*** b-man has left #maemo		17:40
kW_	when changing the day of the event, I just changed the end-date	17:41
DocScrutinizer	and the "big" processors are less prone to it than our OMAP SoC	17:41
kW_	and alarms are only offered when the event is in the future from the phone's POV	17:41
vldcnst	kW_: yup.	17:41
DocScrutinizer	kW_: makes sense :-P	17:41
*** Venemo1 has quit IRC		17:41
eitama	DocScrutinzer: I see. TBH, i bought my N900 from a dude who bought it in NY City, he didn't like that the phone was rebooting every 5 min, so he sold it after 1 week. He bought it in NY, and flew to Israel, so he couldn't have it serviced. Anyways, I updated it to PR1.1.1 reflashed and everything was solved. BUT, therefore, I have no warrenty	17:42
*** juliank has quit IRC		17:42
eitama	DocScrutinizer, So i don't care about warrenty as I don't have it anyway, now :	17:42
*** radic_ has joined #maemo		17:43
eitama	DocScrutinizer: the phone UI for me, when not overclocked is just SLOW, choppy and not fun. I don't enjoy it, at least not when compared to my girlfriends IPhone - But I don't want an Iphone	17:43
vldcnst	ow the I word, run.	17:43
eitama	DocScrutinizer: So, I OC it, when it fries, i'll just buy a new phone. let it be MeeGo, or Maemo	17:43
*** radic__ has quit IRC		17:44
eitama	lol	17:45
eitama	The worst part, is when she plays angrybirds levels that I can't play (;	17:45
SpeedEvil	Keep at it!	17:46
SpeedEvil	oh	17:47
SpeedEvil	I thought you meant due to skill	17:47
SpeedEvil	nvm	17:47
*** liori has joined #maemo		17:48
*** flailingmonkey has joined #maemo		17:49
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		17:49
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		17:50
*** mlfoster has joined #maemo		17:51
*** digitalsurgeon has joined #maemo		17:54
*** danielwilms has left #maemo		17:54
*** flailingmonkey has quit IRC		17:55
*** radic__ has joined #maemo		17:56
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo		17:57
merlin1991	hm and again I'm here with a strange problem, In the media play app I don't have the vhf transmitter option	17:57
eitama	DocScrutinizer: Ping	17:57
DocScrutinizer	yep	17:57
merlin1991	could that have something todo with running 1.2?	17:57
*** radic_ has quit IRC		17:57
eitama	Would you read what I added? fix anything if needed?	17:57
DocScrutinizer	eitama: of course	17:58
DocScrutinizer	URL?	17:58
eitama	DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking#Overclocking.2C_bugzilla_.26_errors	17:58
*** maestro has joined #maemo		17:58
*** Ordog_by has quit IRC		17:58
*** luizirber has quit IRC		17:58
*** maestro is now known as luizirber		17:58
* merlin1991 meant the fm transmitter		17:59
*** Coin_Ope_Boy has joined #maemo		17:59
DocScrutinizer	eitama: sounds perfect to me :-)	18:00
eitama	DocScrutinizer: Goody.	18:00
*** jayabharath has joined #maemo		18:00
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		18:01
*** radic_ has joined #maemo		18:02
*** radic__ has quit IRC		18:04
*** cyguser has quit IRC		18:04
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: fine. devices arrived	18:05
*** ayanes has quit IRC		18:05
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: thanks mate, for taking care about it	18:05
*** Zucca has joined #maemo		18:05
DocScrutinizer	seems now it's time to send in my own N900 to let Nokia repair the power button they broke during last repair	18:05
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, why don't you join twitter	18:05
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, sue	18:06
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, took long enough. ;)	18:07
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, and no problem	18:07
GAN900	Gotta do something to offset the negativity. g	18:07
*** insanefaka has joined #maemo		18:08
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		18:08
insanefaka	so what do people think about meego? seems like a slap to the developes face who invested in n900	18:09
insanefaka	anybody here?	18:10
toggles_w	is it more than just a recompile to go to meego?	18:11
insanefaka	knock knock	18:11
insanefaka	its a pain in the ass to recompile shit	18:11
MiXu-	If you wrote something on Qt for N900 I think it should run on MeeGo without any problems.	18:12
*** hannesw has quit IRC		18:12
*** ag0ny has quit IRC		18:12
MiXu-	I don't know if you even need to recompile	18:12
insanefaka	who knows next year nokia will introduce yet another os	18:12
MiXu-	insanefaka: What's the problem?	18:12
insanefaka	and another and another and another	18:12
alterego	New UI is coming on nicely.	18:12
insanefaka	MiXu: with what mate?	18:12
* frals loves how we are getting new trolls everyday		18:12
lcuk	frals, well nokia DID buy trolltech :p	18:13
frals	lcuk: :D	18:13
MiXu-	insanefaka: Qt stuff runs just as fine on Maemo 5 as it does on Harmattan	18:13
insanefaka	why should i developer like me invest in n900? tell me	18:13
frals	lcuk: im going to sign apartment papers tomorrow most likely \o/	18:13
*** Talus_Laptop has joined #maemo		18:13
MiXu-	...and then next MeeGo	18:13
toggles_w	alterego: link to pics ;-)	18:13
*** zaheer__ is now known as zaheerm		18:13
merlin1991	is thare any other way to enable the fm transmitter besides using the fmtx-faker package?	18:13
lcuk	awesome frals	18:13
alterego	toggles_w: I said it's coming along nicely, didn't say it was finished :P	18:14
*** Talus_Laptop_ has joined #maemo		18:14
toggles_w	lol	18:14
MiXu-	insanefaka: Either your trolling or you don't even try to think for yourself.	18:14
alterego	toggles_w: though, it will probably be done in about 20 minutes or so.	18:14
MiXu-	*you're	18:14
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		18:14
alterego	Just placing my "Donate" button ;)	18:14
insanefaka	i aint trolling	18:14
toggles_w	lol	18:14
toggles_w	alterego: ^-- was for you	18:15
MiXu-	Well then tell me what's the problem? You compile once and the shit runs on N900 and the next armel MeeGo device	18:15
alterego	:)	18:15
insanefaka	what about multitiuch and other shit meego will have?	18:15
insanefaka	yourr	18:15
insanefaka	your recompiling idea is fucked	18:15
frals	err	18:16
MiXu-	insanefaka: I didn't even say anything about recompiling.	18:16
insanefaka	some1 did	18:16
frals	ofc you have to change stuff if you want to add features to your application	18:16
MiXu-	And you gotta recompile anyway every time you make a change	18:16
*** Talus_Laptop has quit IRC		18:16
frals	insanefaka: what kind of developing experience do you have?	18:17
MiXu-	I suppose you were planning on making one perfect release and never have to recompile anything ever again.	18:17
*** Talus_Laptop_ has quit IRC		18:17
insanefaka	frals: very extensive, right now i see maemo as a dead horse	18:17
frals	any examples?	18:18
*** trip0 has joined #maemo		18:18
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		18:18
*** choppa has joined #maemo		18:18
frals	since you seems to have missed that qt is probably what you are looking for in terms of code once deploy everywhere (obviously with exceptions) from what ive gathered	18:19
insanefaka	cant share here	18:19
MiXu-	Maemo is pretty much a dead horse in a way. No new releases. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't develop SW on N900, as it'll work on the next MeeGo Handheld device(s). If you want multitouch then that you'll need to wait. But I don't see the problem in that.	18:20
lcuk	insanefaka thats unusual for people not to be able to share some things they done	18:20
insanefaka	that dont make sense	18:20
*** jpe has quit IRC		18:20
lcuk	especially since maemo is about open source and open projects ;)	18:20
*** ab is now known as ab[out]		18:20
insanefaka	maemo open source? dont make me laugh	18:20
Surfa	you shouldn't be able to add multitouch and new features later on if you implement wisely	18:21
n900-dk	MohammadAG: Shouldn't the LEDs flash all the time the KnightRider music is playing for your KR.py script? (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52239)	18:21
Surfa	so n900 should be good to go as a dev platform for meego	18:21
insanefaka	Xsu	18:21
insanefaka	Surfa: NO !	18:21
trip0	Surfa, so we hear...	18:21
lcuk	insanefaka, there seems to be quite a lot of things here: http://maemo.gitorious.org/	18:22
*** slyfox has joined #maemo		18:22
lcuk	but anyway - you are the one coming here being rather obtuse - frals asked a perfectly valid question	18:22
lcuk	you made a statement and he enquired further to continue the discussion :)	18:23
frals	insanefaka: i suggest you look at qt, seems to be what you are after	18:23
MiXu-	As such, writing programs in Qt doesn't even bind you to N900 or anything else for that matter.	18:24
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		18:24
*** thopiekar has quit IRC		18:24
MiXu-	I've started programming my Qt apps as "windows apps"	18:24
MiXu-	And later tweaked the UI to fit N900	18:25
*** sergio__ has joined #maemo		18:25
alterego	I just ssh into my device and code using gedit on my laptop, saving it to the device and running it from the console :)	18:25
alterego	Unless I use the Nokia SDK, which does a similar thing but with a build phase and pretty good automation.	18:26
lcuk	alterego, i did that for ages :)	18:26
MiXu-	The SDK is nice, but MADDE doesn't support external libraries, and that pretty much kills it for me at this point.	18:26
lcuk	it only gets hairy when you want same code on multi devices at same time	18:26
*** trupheenix_ has joined #maemo		18:26
MiXu-	That better be something that's "coming soon"	18:27
alterego	lcuk: yeah, works really good for Python development, though I think you're talking about C aren't you :P	18:27
alterego	sadist :P	18:27
*** kthomas has quit IRC		18:27
*** trupheenix_ has quit IRC		18:27
lcuk	indeed - same mentality for dev but optimal speed :P	18:27
frals	python über alles! ;)	18:27
*** larsivi has quit IRC		18:28
* lcuk dumps an ocean worth of trout on frals		18:28
frals	:D	18:28
*** gaveen has quit IRC		18:28
achipa	frals: is that German for 'python FTW' ? :P	18:29
*** edisson has joined #maemo		18:29
*** Coin_Ope_Boy has quit IRC		18:29
merlin1991	achipa yes	18:29
* merlin1991 just got his 10th beep battery low message from his fresh replaced n900, lol		18:29
lcuk	my n900 gives up warning me about battery low once i start writing on it	18:29
merlin1991	:D	18:30
* alterego wires up his signals and sluts		18:30
alterego	I mean .. slots ...	18:30
chem\|st	achipa: more like "python to rule the world"	18:30
achipa	MiXu-: there is a tendency to think about Qt on mobiles as a complete environment, I doubt there will ever be serious support for external libs	18:30
merlin1991	I had that with my old n900 too, the first time I did let it run empty I got the battery low msgs way too early, but after that it knew when to spam me :)	18:30
alterego	Stupd bloody python ..	18:31
alterego	I can't believe that their lambda's don't have proper closure properties in a for loop :(	18:31
chem\|st	alterego: right!	18:31
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		18:31
evilrob	python -- whitespace for code block separation... this is not cobol	18:31
alterego	Syntax doesn't bother me, but some things it does are just dumb.	18:32
alterego	Ruby is sooo much nicer :(	18:32
alterego	Well, beggers can't be choosers (he says as he connects his donate button to paypal)	18:32
*** sheepbat has joined #maemo		18:33
MiXu-	achipa: That's too bad. Try writing an app that displays PDFs with Qt without using an external lib. You'll be reinventing the wheel.	18:33
achipa	chem\|st, merlin1991 : I know, I was translating to slang. My German is bad (Tarzan Deutsch am besten), but I do get the grasp (vielen Dank fur Trek auf RTL :) )	18:33
achipa	MiXu-: poppler, eh ?	18:34
chem\|st	achipa: hehe "python FTW" is actually right but historical set its "to rule the world"	18:34
alterego	Well, it was solved by explicitly creating a stack frame inside my for loop, stupid python ..	18:36
*** otubo is now known as otubo[AFK]		18:37
alterego	Now, even though I'm adding support for internet radio, and videos. Well, internet raido is easy, but videos don't have metadata in tracker :/	18:38
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC		18:38
alterego	Just gonna have to use the file name - dirname and extension me thinks.	18:39
pupnik_	"tarzan deutsch" LOL	18:39
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		18:40
*** FredrIQ has quit IRC		18:40
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		18:41
*** gaveen has joined #maemo		18:41
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		18:41
merlin1991	hm my n900 is still running xD	18:41
*** gaveen has quit IRC		18:42
achipa	pupnik_: never did a proper effort to memorize der/die/das and corresponding grammar so my German sentences are just a bunch of words except for a few common phrases (to make things worse, even those are mostly based on Star Trek :D )	18:43
*** gaveen has joined #maemo		18:43
merlin1991	is it possible that with pr 1.2 the fm transmitter is disabled in general?	18:44
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo		18:45
merlin1991	because I don't even have a settings panel that tells me it's disabled	18:45
achipa	merlin1991: which region ? Germany should have it, AFAIK	18:45
merlin1991	austria	18:46
merlin1991	should have it too	18:46
achipa	aye	18:46
merlin1991	well I had to send my original device to nokia since it was broken and got a replacement, who knows what region it thinks it is from	18:47
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo		18:47
*** slackmagic has quit IRC		18:47
*** panaggio has quit IRC		18:48
*** toggles has joined #maemo		18:49
merlin1991	btw it's still running, I had 3 more warning beeps, and it's playing mp3s all the time	18:51
SpeedEvil	merlin:in that case, it probably is disabled for your region.	18:51
microlith	why yes, nokiausa, I will review the device I never got from you	18:51
* microlith chuckles		18:51
*** dvoid_ has joined #maemo		18:51
*** nicu has quit IRC		18:51
merlin1991	well I'll try the fmtx-faker as soon as the battery has died out and I load it again	18:52
timeless_mbp	microlith: details?	18:52
*** cure` has joined #maemo		18:53
microlith	oh they think that my orders with them back in november->december actually went through, instead of being rejected without explanation	18:53
*** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik		18:53
microlith	ended up going with Newegg	18:53
*** toggles has quit IRC		18:55
*** azakai has joined #maemo		18:56
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		18:57
merlin1991	I want to implement another protocol for the conversation and contacts system (like the msn stuff,...) but I would need a slight hint to some documentation about the c&c itself :)	18:58
*** eocanha2 has quit IRC		19:01
*** eocanha has joined #maemo		19:01
*** Wikier has quit IRC		19:03
alterego	merlin1991: you actually need to read up on Telepathy	19:03
alterego	merlin1991: Conversations uses a system called Telepathy for IM accounts.	19:03
alterego	It's clever like that :D	19:04
*** eMHa has quit IRC		19:04
*** calvaris has quit IRC		19:04
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		19:04
merlin1991	well I got so far to know that, but then there was a certain lack of easy to find documaentation about telepathy, at least for me	19:04
n900-dk	How do I make mediaplayer start playing the last played media from commandline? As in pressing play on the mediaplayer-widget	19:04
*** FredrIQ has joined #maemo		19:05
MiXu-	achipa: Yes, poppler is an external library, no? :)	19:06
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		19:06
alterego	n900-dk: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Play_what.27s_currently_selected	19:06
alterego	merlin1991: Do you understand how Telepathy works?	19:06
merlin1991	not yet since I found nothing to read for myself	19:07
dr34m	guys anybody using this pelota thing? stopped working today .. i restart it and get like 2min. the results than it stops and says 'no games today'	19:07
dr34m	:(	19:07
alterego	merlin1991: then check out the Telepathy documentation, on the Telepathy website.	19:07
n900-dk	alterego: great, thx!	19:07
alterego	np	19:07
Robot101	merlin1991: also #telepathy on this network	19:08
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		19:08
merlin1991	thx Robot101	19:08
merlin1991	finally the phone died	19:10
MiXu-	Hmm... I suppose I could just compile poppler along with my app.	19:10
alterego	MiXu-: you'll need to find a way to do that and not screw up the builder if you plan to push to extras :)	19:12
*** amigadave has quit IRC		19:13
*** hrw is now known as hrw\|gone		19:13
DocScrutinizer	hi Robot101 o/ :-)	19:14
*** strcpy has joined #maemo		19:14
*** g55 has quit IRC		19:17
Robot101	merlin1991: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org - http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/	19:18
*** FredrIQ has quit IRC		19:19
DocScrutinizer	hmm, Version:1.2009.42-11 on this fresh device. Seems I should try an OTA upgrade immediately	19:21
*** briglia has quit IRC		19:22
DocScrutinizer	never realyized the firstrun settings wizard was SO fancy	19:22
*** gaveen has quit IRC		19:22
bigon	mmmm did other ppl saw an global issue with application using curl when a host name has both A and AAAA records?	19:22
bigon	I've found this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9943 but not sure if it's using libcurl too	19:23
povbot	Bug 9943: MfE Wizard fails if exchange server hostname has IPv4 and IPv6 addresses	19:23
*** z4chh has joined #maemo		19:24
*** achipa has quit IRC		19:26
*** d1b has quit IRC		19:28
insanefaka	i'm getting bored of n900.... fuck linux	19:28
insanefaka	open source my ass	19:29
DocScrutinizer	insanefaka: that's starting to get a bit too much trolling now	19:29
DocScrutinizer	insanefaka: if you're bored about N900, so why share with us?	19:29
insanefaka	expressing my opinion	19:29
insanefaka	it's a free society aint it?	19:30
pupnik	it isn't	19:30
DocScrutinizer	opinions are like asholes, everybody got one	19:30
insanefaka	pupnik: oh no?	19:30
pupnik	quite	19:31
insanefaka	pupnik: well to me it is	19:31
bigon	well and a irc is not a democracy it's a moderatocracy (like forums)	19:31
pupnik	we're trying to make it freer. thatps part of what motivates open-source	19:32
insanefaka	bigon: please check the definition of "forum" in a dictionary	19:32
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC		19:32
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		19:32
insanefaka	"forum" does not imply a closed conversation between like minded people	19:33
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		19:34
*** Fiq has joined #maemo		19:34
insanefaka	everytime somebody has a different opinion from yours you can't just say "troll"....it's a fucking weak argument, no?	19:35
alterego	troll	19:35
pupnik	^^	19:35
*** zap_ has joined #maemo		19:35
insanefaka	alterego: troll you	19:35
pupnik	plonk	19:35
alterego	Heh	19:35
DocScrutinizer	I just say "BORING, INPRODUCTIVE"	19:35
*** otubo[AFK] is now known as otubo		19:36
E0x	insanefaka: true but say that you are bored of the n900 and linux sux is a weak opinion too and should keep it for ur self	19:36
alterego	Well, you've gone from one rather pointless and uninformed discussion to another.	19:36
DocScrutinizer	ack	19:36
vldcnst	Smells like a troll to me.	19:36
DocScrutinizer	ack	19:36
vldcnst	syn	19:36
insanefaka	you have to listen to other opinions in order to expand your knowledge...spending time in a love fest with other like minded people is called regression, no?	19:36
alterego	insanefaka: right now, being here, what exactly are you trying to acheive? Be honest now ..	19:37
DocScrutinizer	OMFG, my knowledge expanded beyond all limits by learning yu're bored by N900	19:37
RST38h	insanefaka: And, closer to the point, what are you wearing, pretty?	19:37
E0x	insanefaka: opinion without facts are not useful	19:37
insanefaka	alterego: honest? i'm pissed at the liers	19:37
alterego	insanefaka: and you thought you'd air that here? We're not really interested.	19:38
alterego	insanefaka: So, who lied to you?	19:38
insanefaka	I'm trying to open your minds cause your part of the problem	19:38
RST38h	insanefaka: Yet, you refuse to tell what you are wearing	19:38
alterego	insanefaka: that's a rather unkind statement, you don't know us.	19:39
*** Fiq is now known as FIQ		19:39
lcuk	insanefaka, open mind towards what - you wont tell us what you do or why its better	19:39
insanefaka	i do know you	19:39
alterego	insanefaka: you're an idiot, that's all I know about you.	19:39
alterego	insanefaka: now what do you know about me?	19:39
insanefaka	i was a contributing member of this once long ago vibrant community	19:39
* DocScrutinizer is close to decide insanefaka either not passed the turing test or qualified in a plethora of other reasons for a kickban		19:40
vldcnst	What frequency did it vibrate at?	19:40
pupnik	have any of you tried that motorola phone with android and keyboard? keyboard seems nice but the dpad looks annoying	19:40
alterego	insanefaka: well, forgive me if I'm wrong, but your attitude suggest you're not a contributing type.	19:40
*** ZogG has quit IRC		19:40
insanefaka	pupnik: it's miles away ahead of n900	19:40
valdyn	pupnik: milestone keyboard is lame	19:41
alterego	insanefaka: okay, so you're an android fanboy?	19:41
insanefaka	altergo: negative	19:41
insanefaka	alterego: negative boy	19:41
alterego	insanefaka: just anti maemo	19:41
valdyn	pupnik: and theres plenty better android phones, however none with physical keyboard I think	19:41
insanefaka	alterego: anti deceit and lies	19:41
pupnik	interesting ty valdyn	19:42
valdyn	pupnik: so if you wanted android and a physical keyboard its probably not to bad	19:42
insanefaka	android is ahead of the game	19:42
pupnik	it seems the android phone vendors are sucking with updates atm	19:42
alterego	insanefaka: you're not being straight with us, you're just being argumentative, if you actually told us what was wrong, maybe we could help. But you're just trying to pick fights. You've not even used your real nick, that is, if you really were a "contributing" member of our community at one time.	19:42
insanefaka	alterego: i cant reveal	19:43
valdyn	insanefaka: zealotry is off topic, no matter which phone you want to talk about	19:43
insanefaka	valdyn: i'm no zealot	19:43
valdyn	insanefaka: you only talk like one	19:43
insanefaka	valdyn: negative	19:44
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		19:44
insanefaka	1.2 is a regression. period. end of discussion.	19:44
*** d1b has joined #maemo		19:44
bigon	insanefaka: let's try again, what in the 1.2 update made you think that there are regressions?	19:45
insanefaka	bigon: overall lack of responssivness	19:45
DocScrutinizer51	bigon: he said 'end of discussion'. I tend to fulfill his wish	19:45
insanefaka	bigon: broken media player widget	19:46
*** githogori has quit IRC		19:46
insanefaka	bigon: shall i go on?	19:46
bigon	insanefaka: did you opened bugs?	19:46
insanefaka	bigon: worse battery life	19:46
alterego	insanefaka: media widget is working for me, are you sure there's not something else that is wrong?	19:46
valdyn	I find it more responsive	19:46
Venemo	alterego: hi!	19:47
alterego	insanefaka: most people have said the opposite in regards to responsiveness and battery life.	19:47
alterego	Ello Venemo :)	19:47
Venemo	alterego: can I PM you?	19:47
insanefaka	bigon: pardon my language but fuck opening bugs nokia doesnt give a fuck about	19:47
alterego	Venemo: of course	19:47
insanefaka	1.2 is a disaster... n900 being resetted every couple of days	19:48
nidO	its all so clear now, nokia should use their super psycic magic 8-ball to find out about problems you and basically no-one else is having	19:48
alterego	insanefaka: Nokia are a large company, this is not something that is completely un-expected, if you have issue with them, why don't you go and tell them?	19:48
nidO	being as almost everyone reports much better responsiveness and increased battery life after 1.2	19:48
alterego	I have heard that the media widget breaks fora few people, but I use it all the time and it works fine for me ..	19:49
E0x	i have 2 days of uptime	19:49
E0x	in my n900	19:49
E0x	err 3 days	19:49
alterego	Mine just restarted because the battery died.	19:49
insanefaka	EOx: bullshit	19:49
alterego	But it was doing pretty well before then :)	19:49
bigon	alterego: the media widget seems broken here	19:49
E0x	maybe your n900 have some hardware problem	19:49
*** flailingmonkey has joined #maemo		19:49
E0x	manufacture problem	19:50
GAN900	DocScrutinizer51, you and andre__. That's not how you use "tend". :P	19:50
valdyn	theres some actual problem with larger uptime and responsiveness	19:50
alterego	insanefaka: your language doesn't help you sound particularly mature you realise this?	19:50
valdyn	but thats not worse than older firmware	19:50
*** gaveen has joined #maemo		19:50
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		19:50
lcuk	insanefaka, :) its entirely feasible you can run your n900 down in no time - anyone can, i think we worked out at max burn battery can be drained in less than 2 hours	19:50
insanefaka	I'm on my 4th N900, I'm losing patience	19:50
lcuk	what are you getting instead?	19:50
alterego	insanefaka: I don't believe you, but I'll give you the benifit of the doubt.	19:51
lcuk	anything to replace it?	19:51
insanefaka	1st N900 - screen died, 2nd N900 usb broke, 3rd N900 lose slider	19:51
insanefaka	get your shit together n900 lovders !	19:51
valdyn	insanefaka: maybe you should treat a phone more carefully	19:51
*** Venemo has quit IRC		19:52
alterego	insanefaka: so it's our fault you're unlucky? pahahaha	19:52
*** ptlo has quit IRC		19:52
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		19:52
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		19:52
lcuk	insanefaka, come now - you have so far had a laundry list of bitching complaints that started a couple of hours ago	19:52
lcuk	just get yourself a new platform and move on	19:52
insanefaka	paint wearing off keypad... kickstand lose....on and on and fucking on	19:52
pupnik	effective troll there	19:53
alterego	insanefaka: well, that's what you get for requesting a tighter slide :P	19:53
lcuk	sure - dedicated ill give him that	19:53
insanefaka	I'm fucking frustrated	19:53
alterego	insanefaka: have a wank, usually sorts me out.	19:53
lcuk	TMI	19:54
DocScrutinizer	insanefaka: you've been warned, kicked, and banned several times during the last few months about your trolling in here	19:54
insanefaka	alterego: i'm a woman	19:54
DocScrutinizer	absolutely last warning	19:54
*** strcpy has quit IRC		19:54
insanefaka	sorry guys	19:54
alterego	insanefaka: again, I don't believe you.	19:54
insanefaka	I'm fucken confused	19:55
lcuk	insanefaka, you said earlier that you are a software developer who makes lots of stuff - have you made any maemo apps	19:55
alterego	lcuk: he said he was a "contributer" earlier :)	19:57
alterego	Some time ago,	19:57
alterego	Before women were invented	19:57
flailingmonkey	I like the proactive steps being taken about t.m.o	19:58
DocScrutinizer	which are...?	19:58
DocScrutinizer	shut it down? :-P	19:59
flailingmonkey	insanefaka: I'm sorry you have had so much trouble with your N900s. I can only report that I haven't been as unfortunate as you have.	19:59
lcuk	mr bump hasnt been as unfortunate as him	19:59
lcuk	are any of the bluetooth heart monitors also capable of blood alcohol monitoring	20:00
lcuk	like the anklet thing lindsey lohan has	20:01
frals	lol	20:01
lcuk	SCRAM!	20:01
flailingmonkey	I want to see some celebs side-talking with an N900	20:01
*** Free_maN has quit IRC		20:01
crope	insanefaka: usb connector breaks off? thats know hw design big...	20:02
flailingmonkey	have to use speaker phone but should be doable	20:02
crope	bug	20:02
*** juergbi has quit IRC		20:02
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo		20:02
lcuk	flailingmonkey, im seriously more interested in a star trek communicator doofer	20:02
*** Free_maN has quit IRC		20:03
flailingmonkey	doofer?	20:03
alterego	New UI: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/media-im-status-updater/Screenshot-20100621-175951.png	20:03
DocScrutinizer	crope: sorry but no. That's a fabrication bug mostly found on some preseries devices	20:03
DocScrutinizer	crope: no design bug	20:03
lcuk	kickass alterego \o	20:03
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: regarding my t.m.o comment, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56702	20:03
alterego	thanks lcuk :)	20:03
flailingmonkey	alterego: looks sexy	20:04
lcuk	alterego, you shouldnt have donate button though. you need "send appreciation via karaoke	20:04
alterego	Heh	20:04
flailingmonkey	donate button is unfortunate but exists due to lack of better alternative :-p	20:05
lcuk	does that update to twitter?	20:05
alterego	lcuk: no, I could add that if you wanted me to.	20:05
alterego	By writing a Telepathy twitter iface.	20:05
alterego	Which is probably a good idea anyway.	20:05
lcuk	what would i have to sing you to get that? :P	20:06
*** juergbi has joined #maemo		20:06
*** trbs has joined #maemo		20:07
alterego	I'll put it in the road map for 0.4 :P	20:07
alterego	I'd do one for facebook, but that'd just annoy the scht out of people :)	20:09
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		20:09
alterego	0.4 will be a big feature release though, with twitter telepathy plugin (though that'll be a seperate project) and a youtube video finding and facebook posting facility.	20:09
alterego	So, when you hear a song you really like, you can hit a button and it'll get you the youtube video and share it on facebook.	20:10
Arkenoi	pupnik: actually exactly the opposite thing: dpad is great but droid keyboard sucks.	20:11
alterego	Heh	20:12
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: hmmm on that. WTF? no ban me	20:13
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		20:14
E0x	alterego: that is carbon theme ?	20:15
E0x	at the shot	20:15
alterego	E0x: indeed.	20:15
*** radic_ has quit IRC		20:15
E0x	ok	20:16
E0x	thx	20:16
*** insanefaka has quit IRC		20:18
*** apoirier has left #maemo		20:18
*** radic_ has joined #maemo		20:18
*** booiiing has quit IRC		20:18
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC		20:20
*** kthomas has quit IRC		20:20
*** andrei_ has joined #maemo		20:20
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		20:20
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		20:21
alterego	Thank god for that :) I think he got the message :)	20:21
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo		20:22
*** arachnis1 has joined #maemo		20:22
*** wolf^_ has joined #maemo		20:23
*** booiiing has joined #maemo		20:23
*** marcels has joined #maemo		20:23
*** Ian-- has quit IRC		20:24
*** kulve has quit IRC		20:24
*** Bleadof has quit IRC		20:24
*** Ian-- has joined #maemo		20:24
*** wolf^ has quit IRC		20:24
*** adeus has quit IRC		20:24
*** adeus has joined #maemo		20:25
DocScrutinizer	alterego: :-)	20:25
*** arachnist has quit IRC		20:25
*** wolf^_ is now known as wolf^		20:25
*** arachnis1 is now known as arachnist		20:25
*** jkyro has quit IRC		20:25
*** jpe has joined #maemo		20:25
*** carloscesa has joined #maemo		20:25
*** Bleadof has joined #maemo		20:25
*** Chewtoy has quit IRC		20:25
*** kulve has joined #maemo		20:25
*** Chewtoy has joined #maemo		20:25
*** jkyro has joined #maemo		20:26
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: what exactly is your comment? which number in t=56702?	20:26
*** kthomas has quit IRC		20:27
*** polac has joined #maemo		20:27
crope	btw. I tried to connect my old Nokia 770 via bluetooth N900 without success...	20:27
*** GuySoft has quit IRC		20:27
crope	all my other phones connects just fine to internet from 770 bluetooth	20:28
Arkenoi	iirc there was bt tethering package, i guess it adds some profiles	20:29
*** 20QAA9IMK has joined #maemo		20:29
crope	Arkenoi: you mean it was due to missing profile (DUN??)?	20:30
*** ToJa92 has quit IRC		20:30
RST38h	It enabled DUN	20:30
wolf^	alterego, what theme are you using?	20:30
*** mlfoster_ has joined #maemo		20:31
lcuk	crope, surfing on you 770 using n900 as modem? :D	20:31
crope	lcuk: yeah	20:31
RST38h	Oh man, this Flandry guy obviously has not done his required Lord of the Flies reading	20:31
crope	lcuk: since 700 does not have gsm/umts connection...	20:31
lcuk	crope, when you get it working can we have some pictures	20:32
DocScrutinizer	bbl	20:32
RST38h	Or maybe he simply has not understood...	20:32
*** trip0 has quit IRC		20:32
*** zhenhua has quit IRC		20:32
*** mlfoster has quit IRC		20:33
crope	lcuk: have you ever used Nokia 770? There is no SIM-card, only Bluetooth and WLAN are possible	20:33
lcuk	crope, you could feasibly have been using your 770 as a gateway to wifi internet.. just good to see still in action	20:33
*** nicu has joined #maemo		20:34
*** angasule has quit IRC		20:35
crope	lcuk: wifi seems to be broken, I just installed OS2008 hackers edition and I am willing to use that device as OBD diagnistics. Carman...	20:35
*** GuySoft has joined #maemo		20:35
*** mlfoster_ has quit IRC		20:35
crope	oooowww, now wifi is working :D	20:35
*** trip0 has joined #maemo		20:35
lcuk	:D crope	20:35
*** mlfoster has joined #maemo		20:36
crope	and not now anymore. only gprs connection :[ and Nokia 770 is veeeery slow. N900 is much better	20:36
pupnik	browsing web feels painfully slow on n810 now	20:37
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: sorry, my comment was in IRC, that I approve of the changes to policy, and how the decision making is being done in the open	20:37
flailingmonkey	crope: someone was working on getting carman working for N900	20:37
DocScrutinizer	aah, ok.	20:37
*** insanefaka has joined #maemo		20:38
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: I somewhat share RST38h POV though	20:38
flailingmonkey	what is RST38h's POV?	20:39
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		20:39
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		20:39
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		20:39
*** eocanha has quit IRC		20:39
RST38h	flailing: There is a dangerous busybody in that thread, using his moderatorial privileges to boss people around	20:40
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, pictures of the new baby? ?P	20:40
DocScrutinizer	sure. You really want?	20:40
*** FIQ has quit IRC		20:40
RST38h	flailing: Among other things, he is trying to make it look like his proposed "rules" have wide public support	20:41
DocScrutinizer	maybe later. had no brweakfast or other decent meal for 72h	20:41
*** Mousey has joined #maemo		20:42
RST38h	flailing: My suggested remedy would be to feed him shit, collectively, until he bursts. But that is unlikely to happen, due to the current lack of community spirit.	20:42
Mousey	rah rah rah	20:43
flailingmonkey	which one is the busy body	20:43
flailingmonkey	ah, Flandry?	20:43
*** jukey has quit IRC		20:44
*** panaggio has joined #maemo		20:45
*** juliank has joined #maemo		20:46
*** florian has quit IRC		20:47
*** andrei_ has quit IRC		20:47
flailingmonkey	RST38h: why not opposed the proposed rules? so far I see discussion in the thread, but no disagreement	20:49
*** FIQ has joined #maemo		20:49
flailingmonkey	s/opposed/oppose/	20:49
infobot	flailingmonkey meant: RST38h: why not oppose the proposed rules? so far I see discussion in the thread, but no disagreement	20:49
*** fcrozat is now known as fcrozat\|gone		20:49
*** pinheiro has quit IRC		20:49
*** mlfoster has quit IRC		20:50
*** lardman has joined #maemo		20:50
*** mlfoster has joined #maemo		20:51
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: tbh I couldn't care less about tmo	20:51
*** trip0 has quit IRC		20:51
DocScrutinizer	anyway, cya	20:51
*** lardman has quit IRC		20:51
*** lardman has joined #maemo		20:51
lardman	hey chaps	20:51
lardman	bye DocScrutinizer assuming you're off	20:51
flailingmonkey	lardman: ahoy	20:52
lardman	flailingmonkey: there!	20:52
*** pinheiro has joined #maemo		20:52
RST38h	flailing: he has the standard response to opposition	20:53
GAN900	I don't see much to quibble with	20:53
lardman	hey RST38h	20:53
RST38h	flailing: "What part of the rules you do not agree with? You do not agree with the whole thing? This is not constructive criticism, go away."	20:53
RST38h	moo lardman	20:53
lardman	and GAN900, ah good to see all the old faces, where's Jaffa these days?	20:54
alterego	Doc is turning into GAN :P	20:54
*** trip0 has joined #maemo		20:54
*** petrux has quit IRC		20:54
flailingmonkey	maemofication	20:54
lardman	alterego: ah, but what is GAN900 turning into then...?	20:54
flailingmonkey	like mummification	20:54
lardman	brain removed through nose?	20:54
RST38h	OSSification	20:54
lardman	sounds more like tmo-ification ;)	20:55
alterego	GAN900 has always been in a league of his own	20:55
GAN900	lardman, a frog?	20:55
GAN900	Is that the special kind? :P	20:56
lardman	:)	20:56
alterego	Hah	20:56
flailingmonkey	RST38h: saying that you disagree with the "whole thing" might be your opinion, but that doesn't really articulate the reasons for that opinion	20:56
*** GuySoft has quit IRC		20:57
*** ToJa92 has joined #maemo		20:57
*** GuySoft has joined #maemo		20:57
RST38h	flailing: Instituting these rules will let their creator satisfy his petty governance desires, at the expense of the freedom of speech for us all	20:57
*** tackat has quit IRC		20:58
*** MikeK has joined #maemo		20:58
flailingmonkey	for example, a bunch of the policy items are from the current policy	20:58
*** trip0 has quit IRC		20:58
*** mlfoster has quit IRC		20:58
RST38h	flailing: Of course, why not	20:58
*** insanefaka has quit IRC		20:59
flailingmonkey	if you really mean that we should have no policy, and have no restrictions on any postings at all on t.m.o, then thats a position I am sure some also hold	20:59
RST38h	Anyway, I have got some popcorn and expect to see this particular drama to its logical conclusion	20:59
*** d1b has quit IRC		21:00
RST38h	flailing: It is perfectly ok to have a simple technical policy (no ads, no spam, etc)	21:00
*** d1b has joined #maemo		21:01
RST38h	flailing: Elaborate policies with complex rules, allowing for wide interpretation, the system of points and punishments, etc are characteristic for very special forms of governance though	21:01
flailingmonkey	and should that policy define the mechanisms for enforcing that policy?	21:02
lcuk	lardman, jaffa was around this morn	21:02
RST38h	flailing: That is up to you to think over. I have done my best to explain my point.	21:02
lardman	hey lcuk, how's things?	21:02
flailingmonkey	lcuk: there is no morning on IRC :P	21:02
lcuk	on the subject of old timers :P RST38h is turning into a grouch too ;)	21:02
lcuk	flailingmonkey, when we are all in the uk there is	21:03
lardman	flailingmonkey: well there is if you both have the same ugt offset ;)	21:03
*** arachnist has quit IRC		21:03
*** arachnist has joined #maemo		21:03
RST38h	lcuk: Like I have ever been different...	21:03
*** arachnist has quit IRC		21:03
*** arachnist has joined #maemo		21:03
lcuk	RST38h, sure - you used to just be strange guy who posted scp ;)	21:03
*** BCMM has quit IRC		21:03
lcuk	now you are just strange grumpy guy :P	21:03
RST38h	lcuk: Ah, we can always get back to that =)	21:03
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		21:03
lcuk	theres plenty of creepy pasta there	21:04
lardman	what we need is to meet up and drink expensive beer again	21:04
lcuk	yeah lardman we deffo do	21:04
lardman	are people going to go to the meego summit?	21:05
lardman	I can't make it, clashes with a conference	21:05
*** mikki-kun is now known as mikki-kun\|sleep		21:05
flailingmonkey	RST38h: I see what you are gesturing to (verbally), but the current policy is basically that its up to mods to determine how to handle infractions. if that works better for you, it would be work recommending	21:05
DocScrutinizer	~tell flailingmonkey about ugt	21:05
RST38h	...Once the victim has been completely enfolded, thousands of hair-like protrusions extend from the surface of the carpet and dig into the victims skin, quickly draining them of blood over the next ? minutes...	21:05
*** trip0 has joined #maemo		21:06
lcuk	i imagine most should be lardman	21:06
flailingmonkey	i can't make it, becuase I'm on the wrong side of the atlantic	21:06
*** d1b has quit IRC		21:06
lcuk	RST38h, i thought you were meant to be doing scp and not windows update	21:06
dima202	lol you guys read that flash 10 post? one of us has some "connectoins" at the top of the food chain	21:06
lardman	linky?	21:06
lcuk	which conf this time lardman	21:07
RST38h	flailing: you are at the mods' mercy either way. having more rules gives them more reasons to screw you.	21:07
RST38h	(and yes, that has always been the case with humanity)	21:07
lardman	same one, nde stuff, i.e. day job :)	21:07
lardman	but this time it doesn't almost clash, it really does (at least afair)	21:07
lcuk	heh yeah i remember your gallavanting	21:08
lcuk	i beat visual basic to a pulp last night after not being able to do something	21:08
* lcuk can do it now		21:08
* flailingmonkey has been enlightened. and will live a neverending morning...		21:08
lcuk	and it apologised personally for putting me through crap	21:08
flailingmonkey	wrt UGT	21:08
lardman	:)	21:08
dima202	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=721141&postcount=724	21:08
lcuk	flailingmonkey, who says you cant make it	21:09
lardman	dima202: thanks	21:09
RST38h	lcuk: isn't it kinda retro to still program in VB?	21:09
RST38h	At least get yourself some C#...	21:09
lcuk	RST38h, not coding in it - converting some layouts i wrote long ago in it	21:09
flailingmonkey	it makes good money to maintain VB6 :-) its the new cobol	21:09
lcuk	to c	21:09
lardman	nah, most of the code I have only works with vb6	21:09
lardman	i.e. libs for hardware stuff	21:09
Venemo	RST38h: well, VB is equal to C#	21:10
RST38h	lcuk: Ah	21:10
lardman	Venemo: in craptasticness?	21:10
lardman	;)	21:10
lcuk	vb6 is still interoperable in windows despite microsofts best intentions	21:10
lcuk	thanks to activex	21:10
lardman	yeah it is, though it's not pleased to install on Windows 7 I note	21:10
RST38h	Windows still has CALL5, doesn't it?	21:10
flailingmonkey	VB6 isn't going anywhere. the VS6 licences aren't going to be replaced by expensive VS2008 or w/e and are very popular in china	21:10
lcuk	i wouldnt know lol	21:10
*** trip0 has quit IRC		21:10
lcuk	call5?	21:11
DocScrutinizer	I prefer the old COBOL	21:11
lcuk	is that another rst38h typ thing?	21:11
RST38h	lcuk: CP/M services entry point	21:11
RST38h	lcuk: Like INT21	21:11
*** avs has joined #maemo		21:11
lcuk	cool	21:11
*** d1b has joined #maemo		21:12
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, im surprised you arent a valve fan :p	21:12
RST38h	In fact, INT21 should also be operational =)	21:12
DocScrutinizer	lol	21:12
*** githogori has joined #maemo		21:12
lcuk	RST38h, theres lots in the core of windows that is still operational	21:12
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		21:12
jacekowski	as far as i know int21 is gone forever	21:12
lcuk	oh no, net dying	21:13
*** trip0 has joined #maemo		21:13
lcuk	lagometer at max and net deaded	21:13
*** marcels has quit IRC		21:14
*** bilboed has joined #maemo		21:15
*** insanefaka has joined #maemo		21:15
*** timoph\|AFK is now known as timoph		21:16
*** FIQ has quit IRC		21:16
*** njsf_ has joined #maemo		21:16
*** tbf has joined #maemo		21:17
insanefaka	i see tmo is turning into a lovefest	21:18
microlith	as opposed to the usuall troll-and-hatefest?	21:19
*** davyg has quit IRC		21:19
*** dneary has quit IRC		21:20
*** Xisdibik has quit IRC		21:23
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo		21:23
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		21:23
insanefaka	as opposed to constructive criticism	21:23
* SpeedEvil comments on the 'rules' thread.		21:23
*** trem has joined #maemo		21:24
SpeedEvil	(re: blanket ban on buisness advertising isn't always good)	21:24
Stskeeps	Sygic would be banned then, wouldnt they?	21:24
SpeedEvil	yes	21:24
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		21:24
Stskeeps	well that's one counterargument	21:24
SpeedEvil	And mugen	21:24
Stskeeps	cos they were really engaging as part of community	21:24
SpeedEvil	and ...	21:24
*** _berto_ has quit IRC		21:24
SpeedEvil	I totally agree that people spamming screen protectors would be bad.	21:25
*** kW_ has quit IRC		21:27
*** radic_ has quit IRC		21:27
*** kW_ has joined #maemo		21:27
insanefaka	why would you ban the only people (Sygic) whose app is any good on maemo?	21:28
SpeedEvil	Have I missed a 'This is what you should do so that your app does not use lots of battery' on the wiki?	21:28
*** digitalsurgeon has quit IRC		21:28
*** radic_ has joined #maemo		21:28
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		21:29
lcuk	fakes stands are cool, mugens batteries have a purpose, angrybirds and all the commercial things due from ovi let people play - commercial != bad, but blatant spamming is	21:29
* SpeedEvil wonders if the username SteveJobs is vacant on TMO.		21:29
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		21:31
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo		21:32
*** kW_ has quit IRC		21:32
*** slackmagic has joined #maemo		21:33
*** wolf^ has quit IRC		21:34
*** wolf^ has joined #maemo		21:34
*** ljsdofuynsdfufuh has joined #maemo		21:34
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	what is the alarm supposed to play?	21:35
lardman	mmm, pizza, and not a rasher of bacon in sight (though now I type that, I am thinking it might be nice...) :)	21:35
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	the system ringer?	21:35
*** lpotter has quit IRC		21:35
DocScrutinizer	worst thing always is the army of idiots. Wherever you run into them	21:35
*** radic_ has quit IRC		21:35
*** langzeitstudent_ has joined #maemo		21:36
*** rcg has joined #maemo		21:37
lcuk	mmm lardman bacon pizza	21:37
lcuk	20+seconds of lag to get to host+1 after my router :( gnite chaps	21:38
lardman	does sound rather good	21:38
lardman	night lcuk !	21:38
*** lcuk has quit IRC		21:38
*** shpaq` has quit IRC		21:39
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		21:39
* DocScrutinizer feels grumpy due to missing food. Bye now		21:39
*** teilzeitstudent_ has quit IRC		21:40
crashanddie	greetings, earthlings	21:40
*** msanchez has quit IRC		21:40
lardman	hey crashanddie	21:40
Venemo	is there anyone here who is familiar with MADDE?	21:40
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		21:41
Venemo	I would like to create a library with it, but it seems that it doesn't place the header files into the -dev.deb	21:41
*** avs has quit IRC		21:42
*** insanefaka is now known as onepointtworegre		21:44
*** dl9pf_ has joined #maemo		21:45
*** dl9pf has quit IRC		21:46
*** onepointtworegre is now known as madeinkorea		21:46
madeinkorea	wow !	21:47
*** radic_ has joined #maemo		21:47
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	so the alarm clock ringer can't be set separately?	21:50
*** choppa has quit IRC		21:51
SpeedEvil	What do you mean? You can play all the alarm sounds independantly	21:51
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo		21:51
*** clasificado has joined #maemo		21:54
clasificado	hi all	21:54
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	I mean, what setting in the general profile corresponds to what is played as the system alarm?	21:55
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	sorry for the delay SpeedEvil, heh	21:55
SpeedEvil	ah - sorry - don't know that off-hand.	21:55
* lardman heads to sort out a second pizza... :)		21:56
*** lardman is now known as lardman\|afk		21:56
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	I wonder why he is called "lardman"	21:57
*** rd has joined #maemo		21:57
*** briglia has joined #maemo		21:58
*** gaveen has quit IRC		21:58
*** florian has joined #maemo		22:01
DocScrutinizer51	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: clock menu alarm settings	22:03
DocScrutinizer51	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: and obviously it's not supposed to change with profile settings	22:04
n900-dk	how to read the volume value from commandline?	22:08
*** mikki-kun\|sleep has quit IRC		22:08
*** mikki-kun has joined #maemo		22:08
SpeedEvil	alsactl will do it	22:10
SpeedEvil	you probably don't want to do that	22:10
*** radic_ is now known as radic		22:11
n900-dk	if it can be done, I sure will :)	22:11
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: I wonder if it's really alsa	22:11
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		22:11
*** clasificado has quit IRC		22:11
SpeedEvil	It's not	22:12
SpeedEvil	It's pulse	22:12
SpeedEvil	but...	22:12
SpeedEvil	Anyway - does anyone know of a page on the wiki 'this is what you nee to do to maximise battery life'	22:12
*** ZogG has joined #maemo		22:12
SpeedEvil	(for your application)	22:12
*** mikki-kun is now known as mikki-kun\|sleep		22:12
GAN900	SpeedEvil, there's something in one of the Maemo docs somewhere	22:12
*** adna has joined #maemo		22:13
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: not really	22:13
*** shpaq` has joined #maemo		22:13
DocScrutinizer51	yeah, what GAN900 said	22:13
*** ceyusa has quit IRC		22:14
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		22:14
SpeedEvil	GAN900: Pointer would be welcome - I was contemplating writing something	22:14
SpeedEvil	I had a brief look, and couldn't find	22:15
*** chenca1 has joined #maemo		22:15
adna	greetings. anybody here using busybox on an n900?	22:15
Stskeeps	we all are :P	22:15
SpeedEvil	adna: everyone	22:15
Venemo	adna: what else?	22:15
SpeedEvil	well - not lcuk. But he's wierd.	22:15
adna	where is "less" and "nano"	22:15
SpeedEvil	less is in the tools repository	22:15
SpeedEvil	unsure where nano is.	22:16
adna	Thnx!	22:16
adna	Where do I get info on location of .deb repositories?	22:16
SpeedEvil	/etc/sources.d/hildon-application-manager.list	22:17
SpeedEvil	or something	22:17
SpeedEvil	/etc/apt/sou...	22:17
*** lardman\|afk has quit IRC		22:17
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		22:18
ptl	SpeedEvil: were you looking for that? http://62.61.85.167/platform/docs/howtos/coding_style.html#power-saving	22:18
*** gaveen has joined #maemo		22:18
adna	I thought the contents of hildon-application-manager.list was already what apt-get update was using.	22:18
SpeedEvil	http://pastebin.ca/1887946 adna is my current list - you want to carefully consider what you enable	22:18
SpeedEvil	adna: it is	22:18
*** choppa has joined #maemo		22:19
SpeedEvil	adna: ah - sorry - that's what I thought you meant	22:19
adna	So if the tools repo is in hildon, why can't apt-get install find "less"	22:19
SpeedEvil	ptl: Hmm - could maybe do some additions.	22:20
SpeedEvil	adna: It can.	22:20
SpeedEvil	Or at least it can with me.	22:20
SpeedEvil	Maybe it hates you.	22:20
adna	I think so.	22:21
SpeedEvil	what error does atp-get instal l less give?	22:21
adna	apt-get install: "couldn't find package less"	22:21
*** chenca1 has quit IRC		22:22
ptl	less is in the tools and extras-devel repositories	22:22
ptl	add or activate them and you'll be able to install	22:23
adna	Ahh. I see. My (raw) version of hildon doesn't include tools.	22:23
*** croppa has quit IRC		22:23
*** shpaq` has quit IRC		22:23
adna	I'll add those and it should do the trick. Thanks!	22:24
*** croppa has joined #maemo		22:24
*** digitalsurgeon has joined #maemo		22:25
*** wazd has joined #maemo		22:27
*** unixSnob has quit IRC		22:28
*** slyfox has quit IRC		22:29
*** FIQ has joined #maemo		22:29
*** oilgame has joined #maemo		22:30
*** lardman\|afk has joined #maemo		22:30
*** njsf_ has quit IRC		22:31
*** pyther24 has joined #maemo		22:32
adna	SpeedEvil: Thnx! Sweet 'less' and 'nano' are back.	22:34
*** avs has joined #maemo		22:35
SpeedEvil	:)	22:35
SpeedEvil	now update to PR1.2 - if you have not already, install the sdk repo, and apt-get install build-essentials.	22:35
adna	Anybody know why Maemo is using the hildon(...) repo list instead of just /etc/apt/sources.list?	22:36
adna	...and why vi is crippled? ("'q' is not implemented...")	22:36
nextime	adna: it just use the /etc.sources.list.d/name.list schema	22:36
SpeedEvil	busybox vi	22:36
*** diegohcg has quit IRC		22:37
nextime	it is a common way for debian based things	22:37
adna	But then why not bash?	22:37
SpeedEvil	adna: The answer to many of these questions is: 'A wizard at nokia did it for reasons more complex than you could possibly understand.	22:37
adna	ha.	22:37
SpeedEvil	adna: Busybox is a sane choice. Busybox is considerably lighter for scripting than bash and friends.	22:38
nextime	adna : maemo is an embedded linux distro for a limited device, it is not a desktop pc	22:38
nextime	so, it is very common to use busybox for all the base system	22:38
adna	Right (sigh).	22:38
SpeedEvil	With busybox - starting any contained process - most of the process is already in RAM. This dramatically reduces ram use and startup time	22:38
nextime	adna: you CAN anyway install bash if you really need it	22:38
adna	Is there a 'best' webpage on a maemo site listing available repos and what's in them?	22:39
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo		22:39
adna	Maybe with annotations like 'Use at your own risk!"	22:39
*** avs has quit IRC		22:39
SpeedEvil	Practically, I've not had major stability problems with anything I've installed.	22:40
nextime	http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository	22:40
flailingmonkey	there is really just: extras, extras-testing, extras-devel (and I guess tools)	22:40
SpeedEvil	In general - avoid anything that says 'kernel' or 'flasher' and you should be fine	22:40
alterego	Heh	22:40
SpeedEvil	Many of the early problems have been alrgely resolved with new processes on the bildserver to automagically move stuff off the root filesystem.	22:41
flailingmonkey	do be aware that enabling devel (and testing to a lesser degree) results in dealing with a much bigger apt db	22:41
flailingmonkey	and that slows down installs/updates/etc noticably	22:41
SpeedEvil	However - installing everything isn't possible - you run out of space on the 2G software partition soon.	22:41
nextime	is there any overlay fs support in the default kernel?	22:42
*** hurbu has joined #maemo		22:42
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		22:42
adna	Thanks, all. I just got my n900 and you've been incredibly helpful.	22:43
*** tuliobaars has joined #maemo		22:43
SpeedEvil	np.	22:43
SpeedEvil	nextime: no	22:43
adna	I just have one last question (right now). How do you ssh to your phone?	22:43
nextime	adna : you need at least to setup a password	22:44
adna	I just connected via USB in 'PC-Suite' mode but from my PC I get 'no route to host'.	22:44
nextime	and of corse install ssh :)	22:44
adna	I've done both.	22:44
nextime	adna : i ssh over wifi	22:44
*** marciom has quit IRC		22:44
adna	nmap shows ssh is running on port 22. Why would there be no route to host?	22:45
pahartik	adna: I just got my "Nokia N900" about 30 hours ago and have been trying to set things up correctly... Very good so far	22:45
*** choppa has quit IRC		22:45
nextime	adna : maybe you just aren't in the same subnet or something like that on the pc side?	22:45
DocScrutinizer51	flailingmonkey: that's damn true	22:46
*** tbf has quit IRC		22:47
flailingmonkey	adna: connecting by usb does not automagically create usb networking	22:48
DocScrutinizer51	adna: install ssh	22:48
flailingmonkey	there are instructions on the wiki	22:48
adna	flailingmonkey: right.	22:48
SpeedEvil	adna: enable extras. Install ssh server and client (same package) pick a root passowrd	22:48
SpeedEvil	adna: scp id_rsa.pub to phones /root - static IP makes it easy.	22:49
DocScrutinizer51	adna: setting up usb networking is a pita	22:49
*** timoph is now known as timoph\|afk		22:49
adna	I did: ifup usb0 ifconfig usb0 192.168.1.101	22:49
SpeedEvil	adna: move id_rsa.pub into the .ssh directory, rename it authorized_hosts and then chmod it to 600. chmod .ssh to 700	22:49
SpeedEvil	and then you can just do ssh root@Phone	22:50
*** marciom has joined #maemo		22:50
adna	it worked fine for one session, but now it shows no route to host. Never got it to work over wifi.	22:50
*** lpotter has joined #maemo		22:50
*** vallhalla-mobile has joined #maemo		22:50
vallhalla-mobile	hello all	22:51
adna	vallhalla-mobile: hi.	22:51
DocScrutinizer51	adna: check pkg PC connectivity manager. Still you need correct setup on PC side for USB networking	22:52
*** sergio__ has quit IRC		22:52
adna	DocScrutinizer51: thnx!	22:52
*** msanchez has joined #maemo		22:53
DocScrutinizer51	adna: setting up usb networking is a pita	22:54
DocScrutinizer51	adna: check pkg PC connectivity manager. Still you need correct setup on PC side for USB networking	22:54
flailingmonkey	with wifi, you can usually address the hostname Nokia-N900-42-11 and it will work	22:55
*** lpotter_ has joined #maemo		22:55
*** SWFu has joined #maemo		22:55
*** lpotter has quit IRC		22:55
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		22:58
*** andrei_ has joined #maemo		22:58
madeinkorea	why isnt xchat kenetic ?	22:58
vallhalla-mobile	is there a way to use framebuffer on a n900?	22:58
madeinkorea	who uses scrollbars in 21 century ?	22:59
trip0	madeinkorea, because it's a port from the gtk version	22:59
vallhalla-mobile	many did back in the 21st	22:59
madeinkorea	man i hate these half assed ports	23:00
DocScrutinizer51	scrollbars of xchat are a pain	23:00
trip0	madeinkorea, most people hate porting code more.	23:00
adna	DocScrutinizer51: ? on PC (kubuntu) 'ls /dev' doesn't show a usb device. just 'usbmon0' - 'usbmon5'...	23:00
DocScrutinizer51	bur with right keymapping you can use shift-up/down	23:00
madeinkorea	why even bother porting if it blows chunks	23:00
DocScrutinizer51	xchat isn't hildonized	23:01
madeinkorea	i know	23:01
vallhalla-mobile	use irssi i find its better	23:01
trip0	does irssi have kenetic scrolling?	23:01
madeinkorea	but irsi is too damn plain	23:02
*** eitama has quit IRC		23:02
vallhalla-mobile	no just use pgup pgdn simple but ef	23:02
*** diegohcg has joined #maemo		23:02
adna	How does one pipe something to grep on the n900 keypad?	23:02
*** bilboed has quit IRC		23:03
*** kW_ has joined #maemo		23:03
Appiah	symbol adna	23:03
vallhalla-mobile	irssi is very easy to set as non plain i have many colors and themes on it	23:03
DocScrutinizer51	adna: bluefunc + sym	23:03
*** MikeK has quit IRC		23:03
adna	..so the blue arrow key + Sym + ..what for a pipe?	23:04
vallhalla-mobile	is there a way to use framebuffer on a n900? both on startup for messages and in a console	23:04
vallhalla-mobile	adna: yep then select the pipe	23:05
microlith	vallhalla-mobile: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Kernel	23:05
vallhalla-mobile	microlith: thankyou	23:06
vallhalla-mobile	no way to do it without losing defualt kernal?	23:06
microlith	correct, support is not compiled into the default kernel	23:07
vallhalla-mobile	that is a shame	23:07
*** CutMeOwnThroat has joined #maemo		23:07
*** xkr47-DI has quit IRC		23:07
microlith	not really, options like that are unnecessary for most of the populace	23:07
microlith	personally I'd rather have an easy to access UART :)	23:08
vallhalla-mobile	CutMeOwnThroat: is your name a pratchet reference?	23:08
adna	vallhalla-mobile: There's no pipe to select. Is it a three key combo?	23:08
CutMeOwnThroat	vallhalla-mobile, sausage inna bun for you?	23:08
CutMeOwnThroat	they're freshly delivered today!	23:08
vallhalla-mobile	woof?	23:08
CutMeOwnThroat	named animal, too	23:09
vallhalla-mobile	oo how novel	23:09
* CutMeOwnThroat .oO( I think he was called 'spot' )		23:09
vallhalla-mobile	do you hav ne thin ona stik?	23:09
CutMeOwnThroat	no, ran out	23:10
luke-jr	hum	23:10
DocScrutinizer51	adna: should be there on vkbd	23:10
vallhalla-mobile	ah well ta ne way mr dibbler	23:10
luke-jr	so a N900 was just delivered to me o.O	23:10
adna	DocScrutinizer51: Yes, I just found it.	23:10
CutMeOwnThroat	you'll come back when you regret your decision :)	23:10
Stskeeps	luke-jr: scary	23:10
luke-jr	but no letter or conditions or anything... anyone know anything about this? XD	23:10
Stskeeps	luke-jr: did you sign up for the device queue?	23:10
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		23:11
vallhalla-mobile	CutMeOwnThroat: im of ta the mended drum	23:11
luke-jr	Stskeeps: a while ago, yeah; that's my guess, but I was expecting someone to tell me they were sending it and what the terms were and such	23:11
*** wazd has quit IRC		23:11
Stskeeps	more importantly, how'd they get your addy?	23:11
Stskeeps	:P	23:11
*** digitalsurgeon has quit IRC		23:11
luke-jr	someone did ask me for it a few weeks ago-- GAN I think	23:12
Stskeeps	ah	23:12
ecksun	is there some frontend to alarmd?	23:12
Stskeeps	luke-jr: not sure there's any terms if none came along	23:12
luke-jr	basically, I'm wondering if I'm expected to finish N8x0 mainlining in exchange, or write apps for it, or not reveng BME/GPS, or such	23:12
Stskeeps	or port gentoo	23:13
luke-jr	"or such"	23:13
luke-jr	:p	23:13
Stskeeps	or contribute to meego ;)	23:13
luke-jr	the possibilities are endless	23:13
luke-jr	lol	23:13
Stskeeps	well, have fun	23:13
Stskeeps	perhaps you can join DocScrutinizer51's BME project	23:13
luke-jr	?	23:13
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: you applied for devel dev?	23:13
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer51: a what?	23:14
*** kW_ has quit IRC		23:14
Stskeeps	luke-jr: the battery charging on N900 is much safer and DocScrutinizer51 and co seems to know how to do safe open charging	23:14
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: seems there are no terms	23:14
Stskeeps	any 'NOT FOR SALE' label on the box?	23:14
luke-jr	Stskeeps: not that I saw	23:15
luke-jr	btw, my first impression: "I sure hope this isn't what the end users get"	23:15
Stskeeps	heh	23:15
DocScrutinizer51	your contributions are just appreciated so muh ;-D	23:15
luke-jr	intuitiveness is terrible	23:15
Stskeeps	well you use gentoo.	23:15
Stskeeps	:P	23:15
luke-jr	Stskeeps: not yet	23:15
luke-jr	it's got whatever was shipped to me still	23:15
Stskeeps	so your intuitiveness is different than normal people	23:15
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: so welcome to the club now XP	23:15
luke-jr	ah, I see what you mean	23:15
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: got yours too?	23:16
luke-jr	Stskeeps: for example, I had a hard time finding settings	23:16
luke-jr	and when I did, I didn't off-hand guess that I had to disable auto-update on the clock to set a timezone	23:16
luke-jr	(wtf is with that, btw?)	23:16
Stskeeps	luke-jr: ah, yeah, that's a nice wtf	23:16
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		23:16
Stskeeps	you'd want to set Region initially	23:16
luke-jr	regionwas already "English (UK)"	23:17
luke-jr	which is what I want	23:17
Stskeeps	but if you're wanting to contribute, i'd point you in direction of either meego-n900 or DocScrutinizer51's work, either one benefits a more open n900	23:17
luke-jr	anyhow, the shipment I was expecting also arrived, and I need to have that one ready to send out by 4 today :)	23:17
luke-jr	so 45 mins to figure out how to install Kubuntu w/o a CD drive :x	23:17
luke-jr	I'll get back to N900 later	23:18
*** The_Tall1 has quit IRC		23:18
*** lcuk has quit IRC		23:18
*** vallhalla-mobile has quit IRC		23:19
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	23:19
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		23:19
*** trem has quit IRC		23:19
*** kW_ has joined #maemo		23:20
*** pcfe has quit IRC		23:21
*** Tuco111 is now known as Tuco1		23:21
*** Tuco1 has joined #maemo		23:21
DocScrutinizer51	so FINALLY luke-jr got a device. No more hiding away now :-P	23:23
pronto	o=	23:23
pronto	\o/	23:23
*** Venemo has quit IRC		23:24
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		23:24
*** mece has joined #maemo		23:25
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer51: hiding?	23:26
*** msanchez has quit IRC		23:26
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: just kidding :)	23:26
*** kW_ has quit IRC		23:26
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		23:28
*** tbf has joined #maemo		23:28
*** Sargun has quit IRC		23:29
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: your arse is owned by Nokia now :-P. No oher terms involved	23:29
*** fcorrea has quit IRC		23:29
*** th3hate has quit IRC		23:30
*** Nirtal has joined #maemo		23:31
*** lpotter has joined #maemo		23:31
*** lpotter_ has quit IRC		23:32
Nirtal	Wich is the best spotify client for maemo?	23:32
Nirtal	the most stable	23:32
*** mardi has joined #maemo		23:32
*** jpe has left #maemo		23:37
*** muelli has joined #maemo		23:38
*** nicu has quit IRC		23:41
nextime	route -n	23:42
nextime	ops	23:42
*** choppa has joined #maemo		23:45
*** carloscesa has quit IRC		23:50
*** Xisdibik has quit IRC		23:50
*** baraujo has quit IRC		23:50
*** lizardo has quit IRC		23:51
*** kkb110 has quit IRC		23:51
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		23:53
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		23:56
*** b-man has joined #maemo		23:56
*** xkr47-DI has joined #maemo		23:57
*** andrei_ has quit IRC		23:57
*** Venemo has left #maemo		23:59
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!