IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-05-29

jcrawfordzChris, haha dong go gangsta in here :)00:00
Macerit wipes the 2G system part00:00
zChris? :P00:00
Macermake a bckup to get it up and running back to where you were00:00
Dantonicok I'm updating without backup00:00
Dantonicya I did that00:00
DocScrutinizer51Macer: WHAT?????00:00
Dantonicbut I didn't back up the other 25 gigs of crap I have00:00
SpeedEvilGoogle has gone up quite a lot of the really little roads in the UK.00:02
DocScrutinizer51Macer: either you're mad, or Nokia wants to die00:02
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MacerDocScrutinizer51: then nokia is mad00:02
Maceri did it early yesterday00:02
Macerit wipes and backup restores everything00:02
Macerhad to re-download all apps and install00:03
oioioioicheck bug 1039900:03
povbot`Bug Media player randomly stops playing music via BT headset00:03
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Macerit was a one step deal but still took a while00:03
oioioioiCan anybody read it and think?00:03
DocScrutinizer51Macer: if it whipes my homedir, then I whipe Nokia00:03
SpeedEviloioioioi: I might have had that with the wired headset today00:03
Macerbackup restores it00:04
DocScrutinizer51Macer: definitely NOT00:04
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* MohammadAG_ votes for /home not being wiped00:04
Dantonichmm now that I think about it... I should have backed up some other things...00:04
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* lcuk votes for /home being saved00:05
lcukhowever most of the data there is useless after a reflash00:05
lcukuntil the apps using the data come back00:05
MohammadAG_lcuk, for prime minister00:05
lcukor if you transfer the backup to a new machine00:05
SpeedEvilIMO - really - it should store all of the downloaded apps onto /opt/archive or something00:05
Dantonicdoes the backup save the .desktop files?00:05
SpeedEvilSo it can then just rapidly unpack them00:06
lcukDantonic, ? what do you mean00:06
MohammadAG_and no00:06
Dantonicthe files that create an icon on your desktop... I had created a few to call some remote ssh commands and WOL my desktops00:06
DantonicI guess I'll have to recreate them?00:06
DocScrutinizer51lcuk: call my scripts useless just once more :-P00:06
MohammadAG_SpeedEvil, the backup app? I just use apt-get now00:06
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yeah00:07
Dantonicalthough I don't remember exactly how I wrote them... should have saved a copy00:07
lcukDocScrutinizer51, call my scripts useless just once more and i'll hardwrite an explicit DocScrutinizer51 patch to it :P00:07
MohammadAG_SpeedEvil, and I have the debs on my card, so restoring takes about 20-30 minutes with hildon-desktop off00:07
Dantonicupdating software, please wait...00:07
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DantonicI'm scared00:07
lcukMohammadAG_, you backup?00:07
lcuki just say stuff to #maemo and hope for scrollback00:08
Dantonicso 10.2010.19.1 is PR1.2 right?00:08
MohammadAG_lcuk, yeah, my debs have been carried over since March00:08
MohammadAG_lcuk, I think I have at least 30 healthcheck versions in there00:08
mc_teoim all ready to flash my n90000:09
mc_teodo i need to flash eMMC on it too?00:09
lcuknot usually no00:09
MohammadAG_not unless you want to00:09
lcukbut if you want to wipe out EVERYTHING that ever existed on your device, yes00:09
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* Macer orders an ipad00:09
* MohammadAG_ orders a kickban00:10
* lcuk orders a bacon00:10
* MohammadAG_ gives it to lcuk 00:10
Dantonicupdate over00:10
Macerjust kidding00:10
Macerjusr saw a commercial for it00:10
* MohammadAG_ demands a refund!00:10
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lcukMacer, i thought you liked new toys?00:11
* DocScrutinizer51 orders a ~nuke nokia 00:11
DocScrutinizer51if that scary story is true00:11
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, how many nukes?00:11
Macerlcuk: no. learned that lesson with the touchbook00:11
mc_teowhy would someone want to wipe out all things on their n900?00:11
DocScrutinizer51she will know00:11
SpeedEvilmc_teo: To remove the horse porn before sending it in for service.00:11
lcukmc_teo,why do you wash your pants00:12
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Macerhorse porn00:12
lcukSpeedEvil, !!00:12
lcukservice techs probably have the strangest collection of random media00:12
mc_teohow did you kno...00:12
MohammadAG_lcuk, he can't help it, he typo'd zoutube once and was scarred for life00:12
mc_teoshould i see any output on the n900 screen when its beening flashed?00:13
lcukmy life is enriched knowing there is such a website.  thank you so much MohammadAG_ i shall send the hospital bill to your house00:13
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* MohammadAG_ pays lcuk's bill00:14
lcukmc_teo, i dunno o_O i'm always looking at its rear end when im flashing it00:14
mc_teoand when i try put the n900 in flash mode, it just stays a faded out Nokia screen, and i cant see any usb symbol00:14
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lcukmc_teo, just take out battery00:14
lcukput flash cable in00:14
SpeedEvilmc_teo: Your battery is possibly quite flat00:14
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lcukstart flasher, and when it says "device not detected" put the battery in00:15
lcuk(all assuming a full battery00:15
MohammadAG_then make a wish :)00:15
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DocScrutinizer51sacrifice a virgin00:15
mc_teoim updating to pr1.2, so are you sure i dont need to flash eMMC too?00:16
lcukdid you manage to lose yours this year DocScrutinizer5100:16
DocScrutinizer51or visit nokia with a SADDAM00:16
SpeedEvilmc_teo: No, you don't.00:16
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DocScrutinizer51it allegedly whipes the most important data on eMMC anyway, so don't bother00:18
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MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, blue_led replied, I think he doesn't care about fixing the driver...00:18
mc_teolcuk: im using maemo_flasher-3.5, does this apply also to your instructions?00:18
w00t_anyone know how to beat scratchbox dns into submission?00:18
w00t_dns resolution is a no-go, despite my resolv.conf being OK00:19
lcukmc_teo, yes00:19
MohammadAG_mc_teo, yes...00:19
mc_teoor rather, does your instructions apply to this situation00:19
lcuki use those steps regularly00:19
mc_teowell wheni start flasher, it gives no outout00:19
lcuki did a LOT of testing with people about reflashing the device to 1.2 :$00:19
lcukhow do you start it00:19
infobotflashing is probably
zChrisWhats this00:20
zChrisMeeGO for N900 avaiable for download?00:20
fralsquite handy how almost all the strings i needed for fmms is shipped with device \o/00:20
lcuk:D how bizarre00:20
DocScrutinizer51honestly now, dudes. has anybody experienced ~user being nuked on upgrade? I feel scared :-/00:21
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mc_teolcuk: do i need to do that whole "u" thing to put it in flash mode?00:21
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, i still have my logs00:21
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: wfm00:21
MohammadAG_mc_teo, no00:21
SpeedEvilmc_teo: no00:21
SpeedEvilmc_teo: not if you pulled the battery00:21
DocScrutinizer51macer scared the shit out of me00:22
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, ~ will be nuked (jk :))00:22
w00t_nsswitch.conf is fine too00:23
* w00t_ wonders what he's missing00:23
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, the whole bug fix only applies to reflashing00:23
MohammadAG_w00t_, a connection? :)00:23
w00t_MohammadAG_: if I didn't have that, I wouldn't be talking to you :-)00:23
MohammadAG_w00t_, I thought it was interactive lag00:24
DocScrutinizer51w00t_: syslog-ngggggggggggg.h ?00:24
lcukon finnish n900 keymap, where is .00:24
fralsleft arrow00:24
fralsor, where left arrow is on yours00:24
lcuksure, thanks00:25
MohammadAG_next to the space bar?00:25
fralsie to the right of space00:25
lcukMohammadAG_, i have a folder .mo00:25
lcukon a device i flashed a few minutes00:25
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lcukfrom a discussion we made about ~ being cleared a while ago00:25
lcukits been flashed at least 10 times since that discussion00:25
MohammadAG_it doesn't get cleared from what I see00:25
MohammadAG_i reflashed to 1.200:26
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG_: damn I told ya to hide that stuff better00:26
lcuk~/.mo actually00:26
lcukim just confirming :)00:26
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, uhh?00:26
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lcukto help DocScrutinizer5100:26
MohammadAG_lcuk, +1 bacon00:26
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* MohammadAG_ tests lcuk's eyes00:26
MohammadAG_you didn't see that did you :P00:26
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG_: it's fine to call the virus mo, but HIDE THE SHIT00:26
lcukmy eyes are fine00:26
lcukthey even autofocus now00:27
* MohammadAG_ is confused :S00:27
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thunderfestwhat does this virus do?00:27
MohammadAG_lcuk, cool, do they have AF?00:27
mc_teooh yeah, Im in Ireland, does this count as being in UK?00:27
MohammadAG_err, red light00:27
FredrIQwhat virus?00:27
mc_teosome silly people still think ireland is part of UK :(00:27
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DocScrutinizer51ask MohammadAG_ , he coded the thing00:27
MohammadAG_lcuk, and a Xenon flash?00:28
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MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, grr, I was gonna distribute it on the store!00:28
lcukxenon? this thing has magnesium grenades00:28
MohammadAG_grenades are ftw00:28
lcukthey really help add backlight in a dim room00:28
SpeedEvilmc_teo: Some is.00:29
lcukbrings out the contrast00:29
thunderfestI put in my request for permission to upload to extras-devel a few hours long does it usually take to hear back?00:29
MohammadAG_lcuk, flashbangs work better for that00:29
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG_: rename it to bacon, I always thought that's a better name00:29
lcukthunderfest, 24-48 hours, but you hit at the start of a weekend00:29
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, done00:29
lcukso its potentially going to be sometime monday00:29
lcukMohammadAG_, flashbangs are magnesium grenades afaik00:29
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, shall I package it with i2cset?00:30
MohammadAG_lcuk, grrr00:30
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thunderfestthats fine I probably  wont really be ready to upload until late next week or the week after00:30
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MohammadAG_lcuk, is that a bah, or a baaaah (in which case I'll just moo back)00:30
lcukit was a bah because wikipedia didnt say same thing00:31
lcukbut then relented within when it told of composition of flashbangs00:31
lcukThe filler consists of about 4.5 grams of a pyrotechnic metal-oxidant mix of magnesium  or aluminium  and an oxidizer such as ammonium perchlorate or potassium perchlorate.00:31
* MohammadAG_ 1 : 0 lcuk00:31
lcukahem ^00:31
Macercatching up on fringe00:31
lcuklcuk 2 : -1 MohammadAG_00:32
redis there any place to tweak the volume levela00:32
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Macerolivia is kind of that.. not hot hot00:32
MohammadAG_lcuk, i was referring to the aluminum one00:32
Macerlike hilary swank00:32
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redits like having to keep vol near minimum for earplugs00:32
redannoying :p00:32
lcuknear minimum is good00:32
lcuksaves your ears00:32
MohammadAG_just max it out, no warranty for your ears00:32
redid like to be able to tone down the global max volume00:33
MohammadAG_red use alsamixer00:33
redthe volume slider goes way too high :00:33
MohammadAG_alsamixer -c 000:33
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MohammadAG_I wonder if MeeGo will have a multitouch alsamixer00:33
lcukcan never win, "music is too quiet"   "ok we made it go to 11"     "ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"00:34
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lcukthe nokia provided headphones are wickedly effective00:34
lcukare you meant to force them right into ears00:34
lcukor sit on outer edge00:35
MohammadAG_especially when you're surrounded by annoying people00:35
MohammadAG_lcuk, force, like a plug00:35
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lcukcos i cant hear a thing from outside world with em in00:35
lcuklike proper ear plugs then ok00:35
MohammadAG_lcuk, noise cancellation00:35
MohammadAG_lcuk, you should try the BH-905 :)00:35
lcukhence needing only a very tiny volume to drive them00:35
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MohammadAG_lcuk, actually remove the plugs and try them00:35
MohammadAG_the volume is pretty low without the bugs00:36
lcukyeah sure i understand00:36
lcukits only a tiny resonator00:36
lcukbut inside ear canal only and with no background thats plenty00:36
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MohammadAG_lcuk, the BH-905 uses a different method though00:36
lcukdirect neural implant?00:37
MohammadAG_8 microphones are used to 'hear' outside sounds00:37
Macerportrait contacts would be nice00:37
redexactly what i was looking for, splendid! ty MohammadAG_00:37
MohammadAG_Macer, ctrl shift R00:37
rednow i dare touch canola2 vol slider with earphones on :000:38
mc_teolcuk: would being on windows change your instructions?00:38
Macerwhoa.. seriously?00:38
MohammadAG_Macer, it's a debug feature, don't expect miracles00:38
svanheulenportrait on screen keyboard is what i want :/ no use having portrait apps if you can't type00:38
lcukmc_teo, because windows is "special"00:39
arachnistopera mobile has portrait mode00:39
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redid just want the contact popup gui to work in portrait00:39
arachnistand has an on-screen keyboard available00:39
svanheulenarachnist: because it uses it's own on screen keyboard00:39
mc_teolcuk: no because it sucks00:39
svanheulenred: it does if you open it in the phone app00:40
reda lot of time i have to rddial and click on buttons sideways since im holding phone in portrait after a call00:40
redsvanheulen: ye but not when one clicks from desktop00:40
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redwhich id prefer00:40
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redwhoa lol00:41
svanheulenred: yeah but if you open the contact list from the phone app you also have the bonus of it only showing contacts with a phone number00:41
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redterminal goes in portrait @ifi close keyb slider :D00:41
mc_teolcuk: and because your instructions dont seem to work on ti00:41
redsvanheulen: i call a lot via skype00:41
redu cant even see skype contacts with phone app..00:42
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MohammadAG_you can00:42
MohammadAG_well.. i can00:42
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svanheuleni see skype contacts in the phone app00:43
redi only see skype contacts who have actual phone number visible00:44
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rednot skype-only contacts00:44
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redvia phone app ->@+3:3£5@£9"5*£500:44
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MohammadAG_nope, got skype only contacts here00:44
redselect contact i ment to type :)00:44
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redmh, wonder why i dont00:45
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SpeedEvilAnyone not upgraded to 1.2, can they comment on as they do?00:45
povbot`Bug 10261: Terms and conditions of use displayed on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect.00:45
Macerit rotates everything?00:45
SpeedEvilI recall you could view the terms and conditions on first boot after flash, there was a link before a dialog 'done'00:45
Macerwhat about the desktop? :)00:45
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dotblankCan I submit multiple applications for the programming contest?00:45
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redn900 is a horrible, horrible phone, but not halfbad as a mini tablet pc00:46
microlithwhat is it people expect out of a phone00:46
microlithparticularly, what makes the N900 bad at it00:46
Macerguess not00:46
SpeedEvilNo hardware call accept buttons.00:46
dotblankbecause im going to win it.. and I wan't to maximize my odds00:46
Macermicrolith: portrait mode :-P00:47
dotblankjus letting ya'll know00:47
* Macer hides00:47
n900-dkWould it be hard to make pushing the camera button accepting a call?00:47
Macerwhy is that easier than touching the screen?00:48
Macerjust curious00:48
SpeedEvilBecuase you can't see the screen00:48
n900-dkbecause I often hit the wrong button00:48
SpeedEvilwhen you pick it up from a bag.00:48
SpeedEvilOr a pocket00:48
redmicrolith: per user ringtones, swipe to answer, horrid start of call lags at times, timed profiles, multiple profiles and ways to set certain groups calls to alarm while others dont (aka important calls mode).00:48
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redmicrolith: to mention some basics that older models handled fine00:49
microlithwell, all the older models in the N900's lineage lacked call support completely00:49
microlitheverything else is symbian00:49
MacerSpeedEvil: fair enough00:49
rednewer fancier model -> lose base functionality :p00:49
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redwas a shock to realize that all was really not there00:50
ShapeshifterMh. So, it seems like automatic rotation doesn't work here. Neither in microb nor opera, which apparently are both supposed to do something when physically rotating the device. I installed attitude to see if stuff works and it does.00:50
redconsidering price range :)00:50
MacerShapeshifter: rotation works in microb00:50
arachnistShapeshifter: have you see settings?00:50
Shapeshifteryeah it's enabled00:50
Macerin 1.2 it has an option00:51
ShapeshifterMacer: I just said it doesn't for me xD00:51
redmicrob ctrl shidt something to activate00:51
redisnt it00:51
Macerit is an option in settings00:51
redoh its an option now? :p00:51
ShapeshifterThe option is enabled.00:51
Macerexit microb and start it again and try00:51
ShapeshifterI rebooted and everything00:51
redinstalled 1,2 few hours ago so00:51
Macerweird. maybe you have a lemon :)00:51
Macerworked fine here.. but the browsing is better in landscape for me.. i turned it off00:52
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Maceri want a rotating portrait desktop and media player more than anything :)00:52
ShapeshifterI don't really care either I'm just wondering why it's broken.00:53
* microlith frowns as glxgears renders an empty window at 18FPS00:53
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kpomanguys how do one scroll a window if it is bigger than the screen ?00:59
kpomanor drag up ?00:59
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kpomanI mean I have the accept button not visible :( how do I move the window so I can click on the button ? this is easy on gnome/kde by using ctrl + left click + drag01:00
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SpeedEvilon what software?01:01
kpomann810 diablo01:01
Dantonicdoes PR 1.2 support ogg playback standard?01:01
SpeedEvilkpoman: sorry - no idea.01:01
kpomanSpeedEvil: in general01:01
kpomanis ther ea shortcut to drag ?01:01
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SpeedEvilkpoman: In n900, only in browser mode.01:01
Dantonicor do I still need the ogg support package?01:01
Shapeshifterkpoman: that is a task of the window manager in charge and might vary from WM to WM.01:01
kpomanShapeshifter: matchbox right ?01:02
kpomanShapeshifter: for n810 i mean01:02
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koala_manso how much free space do I need for 1.2?01:04
SpeedEvilkoala_man: ~50M01:05
koala_manI have 51.6, but it's still asking me to connect via usb01:05
SpeedEvilSee 'details'01:05
SpeedEvilhave you dopnloaded stuff from extras-devel/testing?01:06
koala_manhow do I determine what was installed from extras-devel so I can uninstall it?01:06
SpeedEvilIt's likely that you've downloaded a conflicting package01:07
SpeedEvilgenerally - anything beginning with 'q' is a fair bet01:07
koala_manit doesn't say anything under "Problems", the tab is blank01:07
SpeedEvilI've never hit an issue - so I'm not sure where to go.01:07
SpeedEvilI'd try removing some apps01:08
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SpeedEvilDantonic: - will not play on standard media player01:11
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SpeedEvilWhile upgrading to 1.2 - if it works koala_man - can you check out where the terms and condiions are?
povbot`Bug 10261: Terms and conditions of use displayed on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect.01:12
Shapeshifterso it seems like the whole of gtk is picking up my .Xdefaults. Funny side effect really01:13
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SpeedEvilAnd doing what?01:14
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ShapeshifterI used the one from my desktop and it contained Xft*dpi: 120. That makes all the fonts too big ;)01:15
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Shapeshifter(uhm so yeah, nothing to do with gtk really)01:17
w00t_any facebrick users, see:
mc_teocan someone help me01:19
mc_teomy n900 wont get past the PIN screen01:19
mc_teobecause some symlinking didnt work01:20
mc_teoso now it cant be turned fully on01:20
mc_teosince i am using windows, i cant flash it either01:20
mc_teowhat do?01:20
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n900-dkI would cry01:21
CLabelyou can flash in windows?01:21
Dantonicthanks SpeedEvil01:23
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mc_teoCLabel: i love you01:27
mc_teoits official01:27
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mc_teolcuk told me not to bother doing putting it in to flashing mode, but now that i did, it worked first time01:28
mc_teowoo!, its rebooting!01:28
SpeedEvilYes - lcuk spouts almost as much bad advice as me at times. :)01:28
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SpeedEvilWorking out exactly which of the very many states it's in during flashing can be a bit tricky.01:28
mc_teothis is supposed to be a rather long reboot, since its opt-something it all01:28
SpeedEvilIt takes a few mins01:29
SpeedEvilCan you check out the above bug?01:29
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mc_teowhich is?01:29
povbot`Bug 10261: Terms and conditions of use displayed on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect.01:29
SpeedEvilon first boot - there should be a dialog asking you to accept terms and conditions of use.01:29
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SpeedEvilI think it's in a box with 'done' - and there's a link to read the T&Cs01:30
SpeedEvilCan you check this is where it is?01:30
mc_teoim on that screen now01:30
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mc_teoit displayed time + region details first01:30
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SpeedEvilDo you have an account on bugzilla?01:31
SpeedEvilerr - bugs.maemo.org01:31
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mc_teojust a message from OVI, saying you agree to Nokia's terms by continuing01:31
SpeedEvilis there a link there letting you read the terms?01:32
SpeedEvilor a button?01:32
mc_teoyes, ill try it01:32
mc_teowell a button01:32
mc_teoof similar style to the "done" button01:32
SpeedEvilah - ok.01:32
mc_teoand from that bug report, it looks like he's arguing its purpose, rather than its functionality01:34
SpeedEvil I think he just diddn't see it.01:34
SpeedEvilAnd so can't confirm.01:34
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SpeedEvilDo you want to comment - or should I comment on it on your behalf?01:35
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mc_teocomment on my behalf please01:36
mc_teoi am too lazy to make an account01:36
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mc_teoand i dont know if its counted as a bug, but when i started it, the theme and widgets were all mixed up01:36
SpeedEvilThat's as I understand normal01:37
SpeedEvilIt corrects in a few seconds?01:37
Dantonicare we ever gonna get portrait mode for the N900?  full portrait?01:38
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* lcuk slaps SpeedEvil 01:39
ShapeshifterMh, so what exactly is the WM on maemo5? "hildon"? hildon-desktop?01:39
lcukShapeshifter, libmatchbox01:40
Shapeshifterlcuk: ah01:40
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Shapeshifterlcuk: thanks01:41
lcukSpeedEvil, which bad advice to you spout01:41
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SpeedEvilI'm sure there must be some.01:42
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mc_teoSpeedEvil: i didnt wait to find out, i just changed the theme to my usual one01:44
SpeedEviloh - I recalled some immedaite visial disturbance which went away fast01:45
SpeedEvilthat sounds different.01:45
lipewhere can i get wpa_suplicant for n900? i need to connect into cisco leap autentication wlan01:45
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lipeis wpa_suplicant best way?01:46
SpeedEvilHehe. Nokia survey site.01:46
SpeedEvilEnglish. (Android)01:47
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cehtehIs there a result from the n900 survey yet?01:49
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Shapeshifterdoes someone know what package contains diff?01:50
Shapeshifterit's not in coreutils-gnu apparently. or at least not in PATH01:50
hardaker2apt-cache search diff | grep gnu01:50
hardaker2diffutils-gnu - File comparison utilities01:50
Shapeshifterhardaker2: thanks01:51
hardaker2I wish backup would remember apt-get iinstalled packages :-(01:51
SpeedEvilcehteh: I'm unsure they will be published.01:52
SpeedEvilcehteh: The first part recently concluded.01:52
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unnamedherohi, how to change mac on (official) PR 1.2 ?02:07
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unnamedheroecho newname > etc/hostname doen't work..(((02:08
unnamedheroplz help02:08
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SpeedEvilWhy MAC?02:12
SpeedEvilhostname is not MAC02:12
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satmdifconfig DEV hw ether MAC02:13
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satmdmay differ for non-ethernet devices02:14
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mc_teoit is done!02:17
mc_teoi am on my n900 as i speak02:17
mc_teoaloud as i type02:17
mc_teopretending to be morgan freemans voice02:17
pigeonis the new ovi out yet?02:19
arachnistmc_teo: at least you're not gordon freeman02:19
lopzlcuk, I can not do what I want, but it is about, could you help me? :((02:20
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cure`the n900 is so smooth after a full flash :)02:23
cure`guess it was loaded02:23
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prontoi need to find my damn usb cable02:24
pigeoncure`: as opposed to ota?02:24
prontoota means going though that application manager?02:24
Dassu:) Damn, Didn't know that Java and mobile hotspot (including custom kernel) could be installed through app manager. Freaking awsome02:25
pigeonyeah, Over The Air02:25
prontoyeah that dosent work for  me >.<02:25
pigeoni upgraded to 1.2 ota, i wonder if i should reflash it instead.02:25
* Dassu had problems with OTA 1.2. Didn't install02:26
cure`my phone was just loaded with all kinds of apps i've tried since i got it02:26
cure`i had 1.1 before today02:26
prontogoes to that back up thing and just stops -.-02:26
derfOh no! is down.02:27
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n900-dkDassu: What java and hotspot?02:28
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Dassun900-dk: Java is included in the microemulator and the Hotspot is called mobilehotspot02:30
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cure`oh i reflashed it under fedora, no probs02:35
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RandorHi, does anyone here speak portuguese? How do I say:  "Peak Download Rate"02:42
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RandorWell... "Peak" does not translate very well.02:44
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wazd~seen andrewfblack02:51
infobotandrewfblack <~927e3333@gateway/web/freenode/x-cwsfwsnrxdwxikmc> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 29m 29s ago, saying: 'was their any change to Maemo supporting WPA2-Enterprise in Pr 1.2?'.02:51
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Proteousholy 1.2 battery life jump batman02:56
Proteousseem to be getting double the battery life now02:57
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prontohow'd you update?02:58
haltdefseems the same to me02:59
asj_Proteous: I would agroo02:59
SpeedEvilWell - ...02:59
SpeedEvilIf you haven't reinstalled some things - then that may explain it02:59
SpeedEvilI've found several apps on testing to use ratehr a large amount of battery.03:00
asj_SpeedEvil: no03:00
SpeedEvilAs a first cut - when idle and connected to ssh - I got >140 hours of battery life.03:00
lcuklopz, doing arrays and collections and dictionaries in c is not trivial.  especially so for dynamic ones.  you have to learn about c string handling and memory allocation and stuff first03:00
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asj_SpeedEvil: there's been an improvement in how either IM or sip, or 3g or wifi useage that's made a dramatic increase in battery life03:01
asj_SpeedEvil: I had an idle n900 sitting on my desk at work running nothing at all and battery life is amazing, but no one uses an n900 like that03:02
corecodeno radios = n900 runs for days03:02
corecodewifi on = runs 3 days or so03:03
corecode3g on = barely one day03:03
corecodefor me, with 1.1.103:03
derfMy N900 dies in less than a day with nothing on.03:03
corecodedunno about 1.2 yet03:03
asj_corecode: after 3 or 4 days it was still > 80% so I would say with no radios would be week(s)03:03
corecodeasj_: that was with wifi?03:03
asj_corecode: wifi is a radio so no03:04
asj_derf: install BatteryGraph and see what's wrong03:04
corecodeyes, i think battery drain is ~ 5%/day in offline mode03:05
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corecodemaybe 703:05
corecodeprobably also changes when the battery drains more03:05
asj_corecode: sounds about right, sadly I think my informal test will get cut short next week03:05
lopzlcuk, look, I'm missing that part, that the pass & axiom [i] then return key, that is where the problem is, how I can do to get returns a char * but only the first character .. ? because here I print from & axiom [i] until '\ 0'03:06
asj_corecode: EUSEQT ;)03:07
ProteousI updated via the nokia software updater03:08
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ProteousI'm on edge with a ssh session always03:08
EbzzryHi! Does a darcs binary exist for Maemo 5?03:09
asj_Proteous: edge uses much less power03:09
SpeedEvilasj: this was connected to wifi, running a shell script to log battery life every 5s, connectable to over ssh - but yes - quite idle03:09
asj_SpeedEvil: idle accroding to powertop?03:10
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SpeedEvilasj: fairly also.03:10
SpeedEvilasj: I was meaning idle as in not doing mich03:10
asj_SpeedEvil: heh, ok03:10
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asj_SpeedEvil: keep in mind though, wifi does use a good bit of power as well.  That's really improved over the years, I remember 2 years ago an n78 type device on sip (so effectively idle) would kill it's own bat in a few hours03:12
asj_now we're up to days on wifi, that's pretty huge improvement03:12
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Termanagood morning03:16
SpeedEvilasj: it's on the order of .1%/hour - with powersave at max03:16
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asj_that's pretty amaing really, 10mW xmit? wonder how much that changes things03:16
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SpeedEvilalmost none03:17
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SpeedEvilif it's active - you've got the ~1W power of it being active.03:17
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SpeedEvilIn idle mode - it very rarely transmits too03:18
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asj_well that's the power of 802.11 powersaving, you just wake up for beacons every so often03:19
lcuklopz, this gets more and more convoluted :p your result string needs space allocating to it03:19
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lcukand returning the thing you passed into it wont be returning just a single character as you indicated03:20
lcuklike i said earlier, c memory and bytes need learning03:20
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lcukits not something that me poking with your function could do unless you understood why i did the things i did03:21
SpeedEvilasj: exaclty. I'm not sure exactly when you transmit - but it's not really often03:21
lcuki could *write* a function which does what you want, but thats not the point here :P03:21
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lopzlcuk, in python it's very easy    hehe03:22
asj_SpeedEvil: it's something like this.  Beacon has a bit mask of stations with waiting data, station then sends a power save request (or someting like that), the ap then pumps out the packets.  xmit is very short, of course apps might then generate traffic.  But if it's only doing keep alives every few mins then that's a huge win, especially since you can sleep through many beacons so rx section is powered down most the time.03:24
SpeedEvilasj: I wish I could find a nice explanation of al of this.03:25
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SpeedEvilasj: I tried reading the standard, and my head exploded.03:25
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SpeedEvilI was trying to find out where the max data per station, and max hold time was set03:26
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asj_SpeedEvil: heh, 6 years ago I worked for a company making ap software, it should be in the standard if there is a max hold time or data, not sure if there is.  Can't remember the details.03:28
lcuklopz, a moment03:28
SpeedEvilAnd yes 'it should be in the standard' - doesn't much help if first you have to digest it :) And it's quite self-referential and crosslinked.03:28
asj_SpeedEvil: helps you get to sleep... ;)03:29
SpeedEvilFor that I have the whirr of the n900 as it does make -j4  bzImage. :)03:29
asj_802.11e-200 seems to have some improved power savings, not sure if that's in active use atm03:30
SpeedEvilI plan on some easy entry-level hacking of the bq27x00 driver03:30
SpeedEvilNot here.03:30
SpeedEvilMy AP was gotten a couple of years ago on ebay.03:30
SpeedEvilAnd diddn't come with a GPL offer.03:31
asj_there's a lot of 802.11 that's not in use sadly (mainly because it's hard to do)03:31
* SpeedEvil stabs dynamode.03:31
lcuklopz, its very easy in c as well, if you know what you are doing with the bytes of memory03:31
SpeedEvilHard to do technically, or requires a lot of reading of the standard?03:31
lcukif all you want is to output to a stream you can just push out either a string or a char03:32
lcuknice and simple03:32
lcukbut storing them and reallocating space etc to get the whole string is more tricky03:32
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* SpeedEvil really wants a nice embeddable wifi chip.03:33
SpeedEvilBut meh.03:33
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asj_SpeedEvil: technically hard to do right when you incorperate it into a full system.  Like having multiple hardware queues for qos.  You can do it in the driver, but the OS has to do QOS right (which is hard) and deliver it to you in the right queues.  Since the OS can barely do it, and most drivers don't do it so no one improves the OS, then there's no point to doing it in the driver.  Chicken/egg issue.03:34
lopzlcuk, ok, thanks :)03:34
asj_SpeedEvil: now add millions of APs that may or may not do cool feature and it gets worse03:35
SpeedEvilasj: and as it's not used by peripherals, and customers are not clamouring for it, ...03:35
jatti updated to the last maemo version without issues why so much fuss about installations go wrong?03:35
SpeedEvilAbout the only 'cool thing' that would be a requirement for a new AP would be supporting powersaving well.03:35
asj_SpeedEvil: well they would clamor for it if their SIP calls could work perfectly (since 802.11 is probably the weekest link in SIP), oh but wait customers don't care about sip, and the AP doesn't do it anyways03:35
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SpeedEvilasj: and their IP backhaul doesn't do QOS anyway03:37
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SpeedEvilIn some ways things would be oh-so-much better if you could rewind back several protocols and start over.03:37
SpeedEvilIP, SMTP, HTTP for example.03:38
SpeedEviltrying to jam in poorly supported reterofits rarely works well.03:38
asj_SpeedEvil: well those tend to be really "big" these days compared to 128kbit audio stream and worse case jitter is probably 100ms probably much much less.  Were as 802.11g running without QOS frequently has 500ms+ jitter issues03:38
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asj_SpeedEvil: sadly it would probably fail, there was better than IP available but it was too complicated, too control, or too much of a pain. IP was "simple" you just plug and set a few things and voila.03:40
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SpeedEvilSMTP for example - if there was a way to ask a host 'can mail from this user originate from you?'03:41
asj_SpeedEvil: "of course!"03:41
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SpeedEvilBut that's getting somewhat off-topic :)03:42
SpeedEvilI meant - some way of asking the users MX server, not the spammer03:42
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asj_SpeedEvil: there's too much money in spam for it to be acutally fixed.  Yahoo, etc made tons of money from spam03:42
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asj_well, not from the spammers, but from selling access to whitelists to companies that want to send "legitimate" emails03:43
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asj_where legit is "New products at" vs non ledit "B3y v1agara!"03:44
SpeedEvilFixed now - yes.03:44
SpeedEvilI once got up to 8% of my ISPs inbound mail.03:44
SpeedEvilI was quite active on usenet.03:44
SpeedEvilShortly after Canter and Siegal - I decided to post with each post being a unique message-ID.03:45
asj_SpeedEvil: heh03:45
SpeedEvilThis worked quite well for some time, and I was able to work out which groups attracted most spam, metrics like mean time to spam, ...03:45
SpeedEvilIt kind of fell over when I had 20000 of these addresses, and they were all being used to send 500 each mortgage spams.03:46
swc|666postfix rules ftw03:46
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asj_heh, it's a pita, I used to run my own mailserver, greylisting was great but I finally gave up and use google apps for domains03:46
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swc|666asj_, i dont even greylist and i get 0 spam03:46
swc|666just a good postconf and amavis03:47
asj_swc|666: OMG you're John C Devorak?03:47
swc|666not even using spamassassin03:47
SpeedEvilswc|666: Postfix rules don't really help when you're at the end of a 64kbit line trying to recieve 300 messages a second by smtp.03:47
ZogG_N900so sup03:47
ZogG_N900watched wolfman03:47
swc|666SpeedEvil, thats where rate limiting and/or an IPS helps03:48
swc|666oh 64kbit03:48
SpeedEvilswc|666: Yes - however - this was ~200003:48
* swc|666 just got 2 38/19 lines today03:48
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ZogG_N900i never got surprise party03:50
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* ZogG_N900 watching breaking bad03:50
asj_ZogG_N900: ugh I couldn't take too much of that show, just wait till the bathtub scene03:51
asj_(and I did like Deadwood, if that's saying anything)03:51
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ZogG_N900asj_ watched flashforward03:52
ZogG_N900great show03:52
ZogG_N900closed it. damn america )03:52
prontoflashforward ftw \o/03:53
ZogG_N900wow. she is jerking him off )03:53
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ZogG_N900pronto closed with not a single answer03:54
prontoanswers are overrated03:54
asj_huh, any one found a bug on the n900 where is reverse balance on audio output?03:54
prontogive us more questions!03:54
asj_as in left becomes right, and it alternates?03:54
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ZogG_N900not a bug03:55
KilrooI'm trying to figure out whether I can tether my new n900 to my AT&T-connected n85 via bluetooth so that the n900 can make use of the AT&T connection. I keep finding things that seem to imply this is possible but that dismiss it without saying how (and usually go on to explain how to tether a laptop to the n900, which isn't the direction I need to go). Any help would be appreciated.03:55
cehtehi didnt even found where to set balance yet03:55
asj_cehteh: alsamixer -c0 all the settings you could ever want03:56
cehtehah i was thinking about media player gui03:56
asj_cehteh: I wish03:56
ZogG_N900you can make gui for that03:57
cehtehi dont really need it03:57
asj_well it would be easier just to port kmix03:57
cehtehan eq for the internal speakers and maybe when one uses external speaker might be somewhat useful03:58
ZogG_N900no k* programs03:58
ZogG_N900no kdelibs03:58
cehtehbut since i am most often use headphones i dont need a eq03:58
asj_ZogG_N900: kmix is so simple, just bring it back to qt only03:58
ZogG_N900it prob depence on kde03:58
ZogG_N900alsagui ftw03:59
asj_ZogG_N900: I couldn't imagin for what, I wonder if Qt Mobility multimedia has audio controls like balance/mix/etc with easy acccess03:59
ZogG_N900don't think so04:00
ZogG_N900anyway we don't get any of it )04:00
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ZogG_N900nokia made me negative thinker04:00
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KilrooYay for connection bouncing04:01
ZogG_N900kilroo why don't you sleep?04:01
KilrooI beg your pardon?04:01
ZogG_N900i excuse u04:02
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budfiveKilroo: tethering like that is similar to laptop tethering. do you have all the network interfaces up?04:03
SpeedEvilGetting the network interfaces up can be problematic04:03
Kilroobudfive: That's a darn good question. If it can be problematic, as SpeedEvil says, then probably not, because I haven't done anything problematic yet.04:04
SpeedEvilHowever - it should be possible similar to pairing any other linux device using bluez with the att mobile04:04
KilrooI've never paired anything before at all. Bluez was mentioned in at least one place I was reading; sounds like that might be a less abortive place to start than the tutorials on pairing in the other direction.04:06
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SpeedEvilI'd start out at a 'pairing my slackware laptop with a phone' tutorial - or something basic04:06
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SpeedEvilthat goes through the commandline - rather than a shiny wizard.04:07
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KilrooThat sounds like a good idea. <3 commandline.04:08
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microlithI can use max powersave with my AP04:26
Dassulol, I can run azsmrc on n900 :D04:33
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maherhow do i tell which firmware i have?04:34
Dassugo to settings and "information about the product" (Or similar)04:35
maher3.2010.02-8.002 <-- i assume this is not the latest one04:37
infoboti guess flashing is
infobotsomebody said changelog was dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile whatever.deb | tar xOf - '*changelog.Debian.gz' | gzip -d | less04:40
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infobotit has been said that pr1.2 is available since early Tuesday morning. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update04:40
SpeedEvil26). Version 1.2 (V10.2010.19-1)04:40
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maherdoes updating the firmware erase all mtsettings?04:41
maherdoes updating the firmware erase all my settings?04:41
DocScrutinizerthinking about all the unused GPIO of N900 SoC and GAIA etc, and then figuring the ID pin of 1707 hardwired to a fixed level, I really really would love to be more involved in next NIT's HW development =(04:42
mahermicrolith: the wiki says: Flashing a new rootfs image on your device will reset the device back to factory defaults and remove all data except those on the (internal and uSD) memory card: preferences, bookmarks, installed applications,04:43
microlithcorrect, if you flash the rootfs the contents of the internal memory card are preserved04:43
microlithwhich is where all of your settings are04:43
DocScrutinizerwhich is a pretty fsckng ambiguous wording04:45
mahermicrolith: so eMMC is the rootfs and RX-51 is the firmware? I'm confused...04:45
microliththere's a 256MB device that stores the rootfs04:45
microlithRX-51 is the Nokia model number for the device04:45
DocScrutinizerSo basically flashing a rootfs fiasco image will keep your /home/user and MyDocs data (first boot will wipe /home/opt though). Flashing a EMMC fiasco image will wipe your complete eMMC internal memory card, thus resetting /home and MyDocs to whatever is in the image04:47
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, no.04:47
DocScrutinizerNo? did my c&p fail?04:48
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, I haven't heard from qgil.04:48
mahercan i just flash with the RX and not the eMMC?04:49
DocScrutinizerbut you can not flash the eMMC without flashing a new rootfs04:49
maherso i lose everything in / but not /home - what about /urs?04:50
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: ahh, ok. Thanks for the info04:50
maheri mean /usr04:50
maherso i gave to manually restore the stupid hoops i jumped through to get some version of cron to work?04:51
maherpropriety sw is shit04:51
DocScrutinizerthough I'd recommed to forget cron and settle for alarmed app04:51
maherDocScrutinizer: yeah - if i could have ever got it run my scripts...04:52
DocScrutinizerwill run your scripts just like cron, I'd say04:52
DocScrutinizerjust better ;-D04:52
maheri can't even remmeber what i did04:52
DocScrutinizerif it doesn't then that's a bug which will be fixed by Shapeshifter in a minute :)04:53
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maheri installed fcron....04:54
maherDocScrutinizer: ok - how do I get alarmed to run a script on say a daily basis?04:54
zChrisman fcron? :)04:55
DocScrutinizeropen the gui, set the alarm time, a repeat of 'daily', and select 'execute command' or what it's called, and enter the full path to your script or execuable04:55
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DocScrutinizeror, on cli, do a "alarmed --help"04:56
DocScrutinizercli interface even supports a crond alike syntax for recurring events04:57
maherDocScrutinizer: i don't see an execute script option - is this on the new firmware?04:58
DocScrutinizerplus full power of 'date' abstract time definitions, like "fri in 2 weeks"04:58
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DocScrutinizeruhh, I thought it should be there04:58
DocScrutinizerleft button: "command execution"04:59
DocScrutinizerbotton text field: "enter command"05:00
DocScrutinizerwhat else do you need?05:00
maherDocScrutinizer: ?05:00
DocScrutinizermaher: ??05:00
maherDocScrutinizer: what is left button and which screen should i press it on?05:01
DocScrutinizermaher: start alarmed by clicking the icon05:01
DocScrutinizermaher: click "new event"05:01
DocScrutinizermaher: click the leftmost of the four buttons saying "alarm", a menu pops up, select "command execution"05:02
maherDocScrutinizer: do you mean "Clock"?05:02
DocScrutinizerALARMED APP05:02
maherDocScrutinizer: where is it?05:02
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maherDocScrutinizer: hmmm... I have that in sources.d... - ok - I'm going to update the firmware so that will nuke everything anyway...05:06
maherDo-m-pie: oh - alarmed is different from alrmd05:06
maherDocScrutinizer:  oh - alarmed is different from alarmd05:07
DocScrutinizeryou bet it is05:07
DocScrutinizerand it's even powering up your device, in case a scheduled event arrives while the N900 is switched off05:08
prontooh wow, the made the smilay icons super ugly in pr1.2 o_o05:09
Kilroowow, bluetooth tethering in general is starting to look more complicated than I'd anticipated.05:09
DocScrutinizermaher: probably alarmed won't install flawlessly on PR1.105:09
ShadowJKpronto, smiley icons are ugly per definition ;-)05:10
maherso RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin <--- this is just / not anything else?05:10
prontoShadowJK: well yeah, but they've made them worse , still no way to disable them?05:10
DocScrutinizer(plus /home/opt)05:10
ShadowJKdunno :(05:10
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maheroh well - i have backups05:11
DocScrutinizermaher: well, actually it's kernel, plus /, plus a script that will optify some things and erase /home/opt/* during the process05:13
DocScrutinizermaher: that's why it's called "COMBINED" I guess05:13
maherDocScrutinizer: one day debian will run natively on these things...05:13
DocScrutinizerthough I guess you could install a debian as well, even natively. You just will lose phone, wlan?, GFX-accel, and charging05:15
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Proteouswho needs charging05:15
Proteouswlan? for losers05:15
DocScrutinizeryeah, especially since I could toss you a one-liner to make it charge ;-P05:16
ProteousI don't get it05:17
DocScrutinizerand chances are it will charge for 32minutes and up to 3.7V even without that oneliner05:17
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maherDocScrutinizer: no - it has to be debian, because no else cares about upgrade in place05:17
KilrooArch linux on a phone05:18
DocScrutinizerwhatever you say, honey :-)05:18
maherok - what do you do when your device is bricked?05:18
* DocScrutinizer back to TV05:18
infobotflashing is, like,
DocScrutinizeris the method of choice for 'bricked' devices05:19
maherok - it did something05:21
maheri lost both terminal and ssh - gordon bennet05:23
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maherdoes the maemo dpkg support --set-selections?05:34
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CabletwitchYo yo.06:12
CabletwitchNow that its out, is the new patch all its cracked up to be?06:13
CabletwitchBuggered if I can tell much difference.06:13
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GeneralAntillesBrowser zooming isn't broken as shit.06:14
Proteousalthough the cueing up of browsers scrolls with the dpad is sort of (very) annoying06:15
Proteousfor us arrow key scrollers06:15
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tgalalwhy oh why TWO successful communication backup before upgrade to 1.2 result in TWO corrupted db files !!??06:24
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CabletwitchAnyone else not liking the 'new' menu?06:27
arachnistbetter than the old one06:28
CabletwitchI kinda liked the 2 stage setup. I keep going into the settings out of habit now. Any way it can be reverted?06:29
GeneralAntillesProteous, yeah, filled a bug.06:32
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GeneralAntillesCabletwitch, install Catorise.06:45
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maherwhere does modest keep its settings?06:47
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jscinozI'm wondering if its possible to change the default command executed by osso-xterm?06:51
GeneralAntillesmaher, gconf06:52
maherGeneralAntilles: what's wrong with a text file i can edit by hand...06:52
mahercan i copy my old email settings over to the new firmware somehow?06:53
prontoneat, they got rid of search on the applicatoin manager...06:53
GeneralAntillesmaher, it's centralized and standardized.06:54
ShadowJKYou can start typing things and it searches the list06:54
GeneralAntillespronto, just start typing. . . .06:54
ShadowJKnot same thing of course :(06:54
GeneralAntillesmaher, you don't have a bunch of arbitrarily formatted text files hanging around.06:54
prontooh? before they acutaly had a seach button xD06:54
GeneralAntillesmaher, it also doesn't require reloading the config file everytime a setting changes.06:55
GeneralAntillespronto, lists have live search now.06:55
maherGeneralAntilles: why did the email settings disappear when i upgraded to 1.2? was that meant to happen or did something go wrong?06:56
GeneralAntillesmaher, how did you upgrade?06:56
prontoanyone know a program that will share directly to your own ftp server, not to that pixelpipe?06:57
maherGeneralAntilles: flasher06:57
GeneralAntillesmaher, why didn't you install OTA?06:57
GeneralAntillesmaher, flasher is like formatting your hard drive and reinstalling.06:57
GeneralAntillesSo if you didn't create and restore a backup, of course it's not going to retain your settings.06:57
maherGeneralAntilles: what is ota?06:58
GeneralAntillesmaher, Over the Air06:58
GeneralAntillesInstalling the system update through the application manager.06:58
maherGeneralAntilles: i didn't realise you could do that - otherwise i would of course have done that06:59
GeneralAntillesmaher, well, The More You Know.06:59
maherGeneralAntilles: for future reference how do i do that?07:00
GeneralAntillesmaher, you know how it flashes update notifications at you from the statusbar?07:00
maherGeneralAntilles: yes07:01
GeneralAntillesmaher, same as that, except it says Maemo Update instead of 3rd party.07:01
maherGeneralAntilles: i don't think it did that07:01
GeneralAntillesmaher, what region are you in?07:02
GeneralAntillesNot all regions get the OTA update pushed at the same time.07:02
maherGeneralAntilles: i'm in the us07:02
GeneralAntillesmaher, yeah, I think we got it yesterday.07:02
GeneralAntillesNot sure, though.07:02
CabletwitchGeneral: I tried catorise, but I prefer the old 2-tier system of menus, tbh.07:02
GeneralAntillesCabletwitch, Catorise is two-tier. :P07:03
GeneralAntillesCabletwitch, well, feel free to futz with the .desktop files.07:03
GeneralAntillesThey're reasonably easy to organize.07:03
maherGeneralAntilles: i fact last couple of times i tried to update it was stuck because of conflicts due to lack of availability of the firmware - i didn't realise if i just waited it would eventually find it...07:03
CabletwitchHmm, something else to mess with, whee :O)07:03
GeneralAntillesCabletwitch, actually, I think it's configurable in PR1.207:03
GeneralAntillesCabletwitch, tap'n'hold.07:03
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GeneralAntillesmaher, Nokia does staggered releases like it's 2004 for some reason.07:04
CabletwitchI can move them about, sure. But I want the old 'More' icon back :O)07:04
maherwell that justed wasted an hour of my life for no reason07:05
jscinozthe wireless on the n900 is somewhat screwy :(07:06
GeneralAntillesmaher, any experience is worth having, no? ;)07:06
GeneralAntillesjscinoz, how so?07:06
jscinozGeneralAntilles: it associates fine, and gets an IP address, but i cant actually do anything, cant ping the router or any other hosts on the network07:06
jscinozand its not just my own wlan, but any network i've tried it on07:06
GeneralAntillesjscinoz, mmm, powersaving may be being weird.07:07
jscinozGeneralAntilles: any suggestions?07:07
GeneralAntillesYou can try reducing it a bit in settings.07:07
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CabletwitchNo problems with wifi so far here.07:07
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jscinozill try that07:07
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jscinozi had to reflash it because the thing spontaneously decided it didnt want to boot... and  i dont want to reinstall all the packages i had over hsdpa07:08
jscinozGeneralAntilles: where are the wireless power saving settings located?07:08
maheri am now unbelievably bitter07:08
GeneralAntillesjscinoz, under the networking/connectivity/whatever settings in the control panel.07:09
jscinozGeneralAntilles: only relevent thing there is internet connections, and it has no mention of powersaving07:09
jscinozGeneralAntilles: perhaps a config file i can edit? or a gconf key i can set manually?07:09
CabletwitchBitter? Whyfor, maher?07:10
ShadowJKhe used nsu without realizing it's a reformat07:10
jscinozgood thing the command line flasher doesnt touch the other stuff unless you ask it to07:10
jscinozn900 likes to spontaneously brick (at least mine does) and thankfully i dont lose contacts or calendar when i reflash it07:11
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maherShadowJK: i new it nuked / - i didn't realise if i just waited there was another way07:11
CabletwitchFingers crossed, not bricked thnis one yet. But I dont play with unstabke stuff, so thats a good reason why.07:12
ShadowJKAlso there's a backup/restore app on every n900 ;-)07:12
* ShadowJK has never had to flash his n90007:12
* TheVirtualVortex flashed once to install PR1.2 because OTA didn't work07:12
* ShadowJK hasnt tried to upgrade to 1.2 yet07:13
* TheVirtualVortex wonders what ShadowJK is waiting for07:13
ShadowJKreports on what's broken07:14
TheVirtualVortexI didn't have any particular issues so far07:14
ShadowJKit'd suck to lose something I use07:14
TheVirtualVortexfor example ?07:14
ShadowJKespecially as downgrading could be hard07:14
TheVirtualVortexyes, that's true07:14
ShadowJKor lose performance from the optification07:15
* ShadowJK just last week figured out how to make gpodder not be uberslow D:07:15
CabletwitchOptification? You making up words now? XD07:15
TheVirtualVortexI see07:15
jscinozIs there a way to re-enable support for Imap-idle in modest on the n900?07:16
ShadowJKthe moving of stuff from the 256meg nand to the 32gig emmc07:16
jscinozother than recompiling it07:16
Dima202This morning I woke up because the shortcut to media player started running a music stream07:16
Dima202I noticed there was a missed call too but why did it start playign radio i have no idea07:16
Dima202maybe the ghost in my room learned how to use touch screen?07:17
ShadowJKthe media player widget is known to unpause after calls..07:17
TheVirtualVortexlol. interesting07:17
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Proteousmy connection drops after a about 10 seconds of inactivity when tethering using 3g but stays up fine when using GSM07:19
Proteousthis is using wvdial on linux07:19
ShadowJKmine doesn't drop, but there's a large delay before data starts moving after a period of inactivity07:21
ShadowJKso I keep a ping running07:21
Proteousmine actualy stops working07:21
Proteousif I keep ping or something running it stays up07:21
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Proteouswonder if I can change some of the timeouts in the ppp config files07:21
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maheris there some way i can increase the smtp timeout in modest?07:23
jscinozGeneralAntilles: turning powersaving off does not help07:24
jscinozGeneralAntilles: I still get an IP, but i cant actually connect to any hosts on my local network07:24
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ear_waxhas anyone else had issues with sudo in pr1.2?07:27
jscinozwhee i have absolutely no wireless connectivity07:28
jscinozso i have to fuck around with usbnet if i want to do an update and not get charged over $9000 by my carrier for using hsdpa too much.07:28
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ear_waxfun fun. u07:29
ear_waxyou have no radios at all?? bt/wifi/etc07:30
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ear_waxmy sudoers file is blank, idk if thats correct in meamo07:31
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jscinozwhat is the default dhcp client in pr1.2, i thought it was dhcpcd as it was before, but thats apparently not there anymore07:33
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CabletwitchOoh, thats nifty...07:35
* Cabletwitch figures out the volume rocker switches channels in xchat07:36
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CabletwitchThe things you find out by accident, eh?07:36
prontothats new07:36
prontoyou on pr1.2?07:36
prontothat didnt use to happen07:36
CabletwitchBut it did it before that, I think.07:36
prontooh well, either way \o/07:37
CabletwitchI'm pretty sure.07:37
prontothat makes things better \o/07:37
CabletwitchI only found out by accident, when I hit the rocker.07:37
Proteousjust wait till you are in xchat and the porn site you have open in the browser starts playing loud sounds right when your GF walks by07:37
jscinozWhat Is The DHCP Client On The N900.07:37
Proteousand all you can do is fastly switch windows07:37
jscinozits probably you know, like what? 10 characters to answer? Wouldn't be that difficult. considering the collossal fuckup PR1.2 is there is little information.07:38
prontoif you're watching porn on a phone. ... :s07:38
CabletwitchBuddy, porn makes you squint enough as is. On the N900, you'd go blind for sure XD07:38
ear0waxoh crap it does07:38
Proteousjscinoz, maybe we dont' know07:38
Proteousgo look07:38
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jscinoznevermind i found it07:38
jscinozudhcpc if anyone else if interested07:38
jscinozsee kids sharing information is not that hard.07:38
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Proteouscya, don't let the door hit you07:39
CabletwitchSomeone is having their period...07:39
ear0waxlol ass07:39
prontotheres jsut one last thing i want, a way to share images directly via scp/ftp with out going though pixelpipe x.x07:39
Proteousopen terminal client > send picture via scp using "scp name@server:path/to/picture" > profit07:40
prontoeasier to just do it via the gui on a phone07:40
ear0waxanyone know how i can get my sudo working for user? root (and sudo gainroot) work fine07:40
Proteousnot sure07:41
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prontobecause with the gui, i can add a name to the photo, so my script will rename it on my server07:41
ear0waxI think its broken because I went pr1.1.1>leaked1.2>offical 1.2  all without a mmc flash07:42
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Termanamorning RST38h07:56
Proteoustiver me shimbers07:59
undrwatersavoy mare latey!08:00
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prontoi wonder if it'll save battery by using 3 desktops rather then four08:07
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ear0waxI noticed the twitter widget completely kills battery08:55
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Proteousit's weird, the tethered 3g connection doesn't die. I am still connected to the "modem" but it just doesn't let me out to the interwebs.09:16
Proteousalthough if i load a webpage on the phone the tethered 3g connection starts working again once the page is finished loading09:16
pupnikwell now.  pr1.2 installed via apt-get upgrade  and it reboots too.  nice09:16
Proteousmy hacked solution is to start a ssh connection with a serveraliveinterval of 5 seconds09:17
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pupnikProteous: ping works also09:25
Proteoussure, but who wants to be pinged every 5 seconds09:27
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pupnikdoesnt bother me09:29
pigeonis the new ovi store supposed to be out already?09:30
luke-jrProteous: uh, ping is going to be less than your serveraliveinterval09:30
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MacDrunki thow that maemo and ibm were merge in a new os system09:31
luke-jryou mean Nokia and Intel09:31
Proteousluke-jr: well, my ssh is usefull09:31
MacDrunkyea yea09:31
luke-jrand that's in #MeeGo09:31
Proteousfor doing sshy things09:31
luke-jrand half this room hates MeeGo09:31
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luke-jrand the other half loves it09:31
luke-jrI'm not sure the haters have a consensus on reason why09:32
MacDrunkmeego sucks or what???09:32
arachnistmeego uses rpm09:32
gst-kapsany idea how can we test a maemo app without N900 ?09:32
Termanaarachnist, bingo - number one reason that people hate it for some reason09:32
Termanabut to hell with it09:32
TermanaHaters gonna hate09:32
arachnisti actually hate dpkg/deb more than rpm09:33
arachnist(mainly due to the fact, that rpm spec files are easier to write)09:33
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CLabeltar would have been best. ;)09:40
CLabelno added complexity09:41
gst-kapshow to test maemo without N90009:42
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BilawHallo all!10:07
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Bilaw’have installed Easy Debian on N900: works fine, only there are three submenus to Synaptic, and… I don’t know the default root password, can anyone…?10:08
MohammadAGBilaw, open the menu, then click Debian chroot10:10
MohammadAGthen change the password using passwd10:10
Bilawcheers, MohammadAG — I realise I can’t do it right now (have updated the firmware, and of course all programs erased), but I’ll do it soon10:12
MohammadAGBilaw, the image should still be there, unless you flashed the eMMC10:13
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pupnikwhich part of pr1.2 is supposed to fix duplicate MyDocs folders bug?  I still have dupes10:16
pupnikahh that is the fault of catorise nm10:17
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BilawMohammadAG: so all I need to do is to launch the image, no need to type some command specific in the terminal??10:17
MohammadAGBilaw, there's a shortcut for everything10:18
MohammadAGjust install easy debian and easy chroot10:18
MohammadAGand you're done, no need to redownload10:18
BilawOk, so were agreed.10:18
Bilawcheers, mate!10:18
MohammadAGyw :)10:19
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Bilawanother question: If I want to install an alternative OS on my tablet, which d’you think is best for me, who have no knowlegde in computing?10:24
Bilaw— there is a page on maemo,10:24
Bilawbut it doesn’t state the level of completion of the works…10:25
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ear0waxi would just stick with easy deb10:25
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TermanaDon't try that at home folks!10:25
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TermanaMy monitor plug was half way out, I tried pushing it in, and got some nice blue sparks10:26
pupnikfunny question Bilaw - i would suggest "none"10:26
ear0waxi say that because of the driver issue10:26
BilawHumpfle, ear0wax & pupnik…10:27
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mc_teodoes any fremantle browser have socks support?10:27
Bilaw(humpfle meaning that I feel bad hearing that)10:27
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pupnikBilaw: other oses are for hacking and development. Maemo is stable10:30
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mc_teodoes any fremantle browser have socks support?10:34
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Termanamc_teo, does any fremantle browser have feet? NO - so no use for socks10:40
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Termanamc_teo, :P in all seriousness try this -
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Chikudoes microb support mozilla weave ?10:47
Chikuor you need fennex?10:47
pupnik"The 1mhz 6809 can do 4000 ADD cycles in one frame (1/60 second) of Robotron."10:50
pupnikthat was game programming :)10:50
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rcgpupnik: your talking of the old robotron from german democratic republic?10:51
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pupnikno williams Robotron 208410:51
rcgheh ic10:52
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pupnikpossibly runnable on some robotron system.  did any have bit-addrressable graphics?10:52
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rcgwell am no expert there .. i was just wondering if you meant the same .. they produced quite robust technology .. meaning robust in the mechanical sense ;)10:53
rcglike printers made the ground shake when operated robust10:54
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pupnik#  Adam made up a "NOP NOP" joke. "Who's there?" "NOBODY".10:57
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mc_teodoes any fremantle browser have socks support?11:07
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* MohammadAG pokes frals 11:16
MohammadAGyou got MMS working, when's 3G video calling coming? :)11:16
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SwedeMikeI've tried to make skype video calls and my local camera picture goes live, but other end doesn't see that I have a webcam, and I can't receive their webcam, anyone successfully got that working?11:27
ear0waxi video call with gtalk on edge. EDGE11:27
ear0waxno one can recive skype video atm11:27
SwedeMikeear0wax: hm, so I should try gtalk as well... interesting.11:28
* frals slaps MohammadAG around a bit with a large trout11:29
SwedeMikehm, but google talk client for linux seems to be lacking.11:30
fralsMohammadAG: ill let someone else tackle that one, i can't have all the fun... ;)11:30
ear0waxuse gmails built in gtalk11:30
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misc--hi all, I'm trying to install the mobilehotspot according to instructions at but the link to hotspot-kernel-flasher is dead11:31
misc--also, if I do apt-get install mobilehotspot (dry run) then it exists and will download required packages - Can I just do it that way or should I follow instructions on the mobilehotspot garage page? (which I need hotspot-kernel-flasher)11:32
pupnikmisc--: i just installed it and it worked11:33
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misc--pupnik: which method did you use? Just install mobilehotspot via apt-get ?11:34
misc--cool will give it a shot. Thanks11:36
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misc--did you install hotspot-kernel-modules and hotspot-kernel by any chance?11:39
pupnikdidnt touch kernel11:39
misc--ah ok11:39
pupnikam running titan's atm11:39
pupnikmaybe it includes all the fun you need11:40
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misc--yeah maybe...I'm just running stock one11:40
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mc_teosocks5 proxy support anyone?11:48
Stskeepsuse the internet settins11:49
Stskeepsthere's proxy stuff in there11:49
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LuciusMareHi, the skype client on fremantle does not support conference calls?11:51
mc_teoand ive been using the pecain msn protocol plugin, but now they contacts dont appear in new im?11:53
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mc_teoand maemo seriously needs a porn button11:55
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MohammadAG<LuciusMare> Hi, the skype client on fremantle does not support conference calls? it does12:07
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LuciusMareMohammadAG: oh? When I tried to add another call, the previous one got held...12:10
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MohammadAGtap the title menu and merge calls12:10
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LuciusMareThere is no such thing as "merge calls", only "end held call"12:13
mc_teon900-dk: well more a hide porn button12:13
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MohammadAGLuciusMare, there is one here12:15
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MohammadAGLuciusMare, make a call, make another call, then merge them12:16
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LuciusMareThere is no "merge" button12:16
MohammadAGmind you if it's a voip call you can't merge a landline call with it12:16
mc_teoand why the hell does app manager have a search anymore?12:16
LuciusMareDo I need to make a screenshot?12:17
fralsmc_teo: start typing, its live filter12:17
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mc_teoi dont want to use pidgin :(12:24
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TomaszDzaheerm, ping12:47
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Stskeepslo BaTmAn13:03
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Triztmc_teo: it has a search, just start typing13:04
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mc_teoi know?13:05
TriztI don't know if you know13:05
mc_teoi know!13:05
mc_teoi know if i know, and i definately know that i know!13:06
Triztgood :)13:06
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mc_teon900 doesnt have an Alt key, how would i switch tabs in irssi?13:07
mc_teon900 doesnt have an Alt key, how would i switch tabs in irssi?13:09
infobotmc_teo meant: n900 doesnt have an Alt key, how would i switch windows in irssi?13:09
jacekowski /window next13:09
SpeedEvilIt does too have an alt key13:09
pupnikctrl n ctrl p13:09
jacekowskior ctrl+n13:09
mc_teoand why is nokia suite associated with .jars13:10
SpeedEvilIn xchat, I have shift-numbers (shift-blue-toprow-letters) bound to switch cannels13:10
mc_teothats pretty retarded13:10
mc_teoSpeedEvil: not you, btw13:10
SpeedEvilRegrettably, much of the nokia sw is.13:11
jacekowskimc_teo: because it can install jars on some phones13:11
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Trewasmc_teo: esc+number also changes tabs in irssi13:15
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pupnikone more column of keys, or another row.  bring back the "Esc" key!13:18
pupnikWhoever is anti-esc at nokia, yer wrong! :)13:19
* pupnik stamps foot like 4 year old13:19
SpeedEvilI want shift-blue to be configurable13:19
SpeedEvilAs with shift-z and blue-a13:20
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SpeedEvilSo you can setup blue-a to be alt13:20
SpeedEvilor tab13:20
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ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: blue-a?13:42
RST38hHo ho ho, "I am so angry/sad/disappointed" party is in the full swing at tmo!13:42
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: you can bind alt to blue-a.13:43
SpeedEvilyou can?13:43
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: well yes. Edit /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 and your keyboard layout, put in something like key <AC01>{ \[a,A,Alt_L,Alt_L] };13:45
ShapeshifterI am guessing it should work. I mean, why shouldn't it.13:45
Shapeshifterit works with other keys, so why not with Alt_L13:45
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SpeedEvilactually - you may get chording issues - I don't recall the key layout well13:46
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ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: meh, well it doesn't seem to work just yet. but I'm certain it's a matter of configuration13:51
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TheGermangood morning13:53
TheGermanafter upgrade, my conversation history is 'broken', so new calls or messages wouldn't be stored... any ideas to fix it?13:54
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ShapeshifterI don't undestand what an eight level layout is, anyway ._.13:56
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ali1234hello. just stopping by to complain that the nokia update yet again wants me to wipe and reflash. what's the point of having a poackage manager if you're not going to use it?13:57
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chadiGo to your led pattern editor. set the color of missed call notofication to purple, click test, it appears in nice purple. now apply it, and miss call the phone, the notification appears as pink. Any idea what's wrong here?13:58
TheGermanchadi  reboot?13:58
chadieven if I apply it manually, ie color rb, same result13:58
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chadiTheGerman I indeed did reboot13:59
TheGermanrenamed the fgenerated file?13:59
chadiif you want, assume I don't have led pattern editor. I edit the file manually, changing the color to rb. Now I run led pattern editor, I test, it apears as purple, but when i miss call myself, it appears pinkish14:00
ShapeshifterI'm also what business /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 has on the n900.14:00
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TheGermanhmh no idea14:00
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SpeedEvilShapeshifter: There may be 8 'rows' on the keyboard - split into columns14:01
chadiTheAppleMan: do you have LED pattern editor? can you try it yourself?14:01
TheGermanbut whats with my database problem? ^^14:01
chadiTheGerman* sorry14:01
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ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: but with a 4 level layout you have nothing+button, shift+button, blue+button, blue+shift+button. that way you get 4 ways. But with 8 levels? How'd you ever reach them?14:02
TheGermani cant try it because my calling database is broken14:02
Shapeshifteryou'd need an additional modkey,14:02
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Shapeshifterlike: nothing+button, shift+button, blue+button, green+button, shift+blue+button, green+blue+button, shift+green+button14:03
Shapeshifterwhich is only 714:03
ShapeshifterI don't understand how they get to 814:04
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: I mean 8 electrical14:04
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: huh?14:04
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, is it possible for the device to record in 720p?14:05
Shapeshifterthe russian and norsk layout use these 8-level things. but they don't have electrically different n900s14:05
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Unsure14:05
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, with the size of the lens14:05
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: The lens can easily resolve 720p14:05
Shapeshifterah, you can of course switch modes.14:05
Shapeshifterthat gives you 2*414:05
SpeedEvilI'm unsure if the video recorder will do it14:05
TheGermanno ideas?14:06
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, so it's a software limitation?14:06
SpeedEviloh - right Shapeshifter. I was being confused.14:06
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: I'm unsure if the hardware has the capacity to take 720p video.14:06
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: At full rate that is14:06
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Nitialsamsung omnia hd has the very same cortex a8 and it records 720p video at 24fps so I guess it is just a software issue14:16
ShapeshifterThere are several problems to this: 1) maximum cpu encoding speed, 2) transfer rate to emmc for caching unencoded data and or saving encoded data.14:18
Shapeshiftercaching is probably impossible because it's just too slow14:18
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* Arkenoi has strange feeling that pr1.2 is much less "stable" than 1.1.1. I see too many minor glitches.14:20
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chadiArkenoi: 1.2.114:22
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: it's not the CPU which does the encoding14:23
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SpeedEvilcortex a8 is not a CPU14:23
SpeedEvilIt's a CPU core.14:23
SpeedEvilThe peripherals can vary.14:24
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SpeedEvilIncluding - for example - video encoder units and scalers.14:24
SpeedEvilOr rather - it's not a SoC - it's a CPU core14:25
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pupnikGBA remakes, ROMs and source:
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pupnikcould use a vsync-driven game loop demo14:41
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pupnik1) give pupnik vsync signal 2) pupnik swaps framebuffer 3) lcd controller updates screen14:44
pupnikhow hard is that :(14:44
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MohammadAGhas anyone had problems booting up from a damn ubuntu disc?14:49
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Stskeepsit's mr butcher!14:54
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fralsim an expert at uploading my package ~3minutes after the autobuilder starts importing15:13
SpeedEvilYou should be by now.15:14
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chem|stcan anybody confirm bug 10304 ?15:17
povbot`Bug Contacts not being recognised in Phone or SMS Conversations15:17
chem|stor has an idea how to fix this15:17
pupnikworks here. open contacts, send sms15:18
fralsi think revdkathy got that bug as well, but not seen her on irc lately15:18
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: Maybe they use grub and not isolinux with your mobo not being able to boot from cd-grub15:18
MohammadAGShapeshifter, it can boot from both15:19
MohammadAGand they use ISOlinux15:19
MohammadAGIt seems to stop @ run level 515:20
tybolltchem|st: that sounds like what I had - it was due to one nnmber being in multiple contacts15:21
tybolltchem|st: I merged the two contacts - presto no more problems15:22
crashanddieanyone who gets me jeff bertolucci's email address gets a cookie.15:22
tybolltpresto? prästost? :S15:22
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ShapeshifterMohammadAG: maybe this is a good moment to try another distro? :>15:28
MohammadAGShapeshifter, my experience with Debian hasn't been that great, it couldn't detect any of my drives15:29
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: depending on what kind of user you are: www.archlinux.org15:30
MohammadAGShapeshifter, hell no!15:30
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mc_teowow, pr1.2 sucks my battery15:32
GeneralAntillesMine improved by a noticeable amount.15:33
* n900-dk dont understand why I have to confirm installation of every update, after I pressed "update all"..15:33
MohammadAG(as GAN)15:33
MohammadAGn900-dk, cause if you don't some smartass might sue15:33
cure`my phone is so responsive now having done a full reflash15:33
cure`had tons of garbage on it tho15:33
GeneralAntilles"MeeGo phone will be capacitive, more stylish and more beautiful with simpler UI that average users will find as equally compelling as tech leaders."15:34
GeneralAntillesNokia can go die in a fire.15:34
tybolltGeneralAntilles: where you at reading this?15:35
GeneralAntillesNokia marketing is a hateful operation.15:35
GeneralAntillesBusiness moreso.15:35
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chem|sttybollt: I got not a single contact with number dupplets, well maybe gran'pa but thats about it15:37
chem|sttybollt: I got that for some of the call-history and I dont have cell douplets15:38
chem|stsome entries show up with the name but if I tap on them they show like a unknown number15:39
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chem|stGeneralAntilles: I think this is my last nxxx then! well maybe I buy a new N900 in 3 years...15:41
chem|stpupnik: its not about that I am not able to call or text, its just that after a reflash it looks like something of the pattern engine messed up15:42
chem|stI need a way to trigger it by hand or something15:43
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pupnikaah newer sgx drivers in harmattan to fix memory corruption and perhaps give vsync
povbot`Bug 9320: opengl-es2 rendering bugs15:49
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ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: heh.15:50
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vanadismobilehai thar15:58
vanadismobilemy accu isn't loading15:59
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vanadismobilewat to do? reboot doesn't work15:59
Stskeepsyour what?16:00
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chem|stvanadismobile: USB or wall charger16:02
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vanadismobilei tried the wall charger and the old nokia charger with adapter16:02
chem|sthave you tried to charge it after removing the battery with the wall charger (not boot)16:03
vanadismobilebrb testing this16:03
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chem|stremove the bat put it back in and dont power up16:04
wazdjoppu: ping :)16:05
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wazdhello people btw16:05
Stskeepslo wazd16:05
GAN900chem|st, hoping they'll still do a loaner program16:05
Corsacyurgh, tinymail embeds a camel-lite library which provides the same symbols as libcamel from evolution-data-server16:06
GAN900I can't ever see myself paying for a capacitive device.16:06
ZogGwazd hola16:06
GAN900"N900+1 -- More closed, less useful"16:06
* Stskeeps just hopes it can run meego 1.1 and have it's own keys vault 16:07
ZogGGAN900 what is N900+116:07
wazdStskeeps: I can make a community meego theme btw if you're interested :P16:07
Stskeepswazd: hmm, i might be for the harmattan on n900 project, but i'll poke you later..16:07
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* wazd 's totally confused now :)16:08
ZogGwazd, there is no UX anyway =)16:08
ZogGwazd, or you want to make for maemo5 ?16:08
wazdZogG: *yet* :)16:08
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ZogGwazd, maybe it wouldn't be out, maybe WW3 will strike =)16:09
wazdZogG: no, for Community Meego release16:09
ZogGwazd it's far from there anyway16:09
wazdStskeeps: so harmattan is not meego 1.0 in the end? :)16:09
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chem|stGAN900: same here, capa sucks16:09
ZogGwazd, there is no handset UX till 1.1 as i understand16:09
Stskeepsactually, that's not entirely true16:10
Stskeepsthey say 1.1 trunk, not 1.116:10
chem|stZogG: just install xfce16:10
ZogGStskeeps when trunk is out?16:10
ZogGchem|st wouldn't have phone functions anyway =)16:10
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StskeepsZogG: i don't know what the plans are.16:10
chem|stZogG: sure not but what you need phone functions for?16:11
Stskeepsknowing things well, before summer, and everyone goes on holiday16:11
vanadismobiledoesn't work properly16:11
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chem|stvanadismobile: means doesn't charge?16:11
vanadismobilegot this yellow blinking for about two sec16:11
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vanadismobilebut then it stopped16:11
ZogGStskeeps, - something like that16:12
chem|stdoes it start again with light pressure on the cable?16:12
ZogGchem|st, i want to communicate with people at least on phone =(((16:12
vanadismobiletried that, but doesn't work16:12
chem|stvanadismobile: then its not a broken plug though16:12
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n900-dkIs it possible to set the background just to a colour?16:13
ZogGStskeeps, what holidays, it's school holidays =)16:13
chem|stZogG: well you got sound and internet make yourself at home!16:13
vanadismobilei'm trying to connect it to pc right now16:13
ZogGchem|st, i want real life and want to take phone numbers from chicks =(16:13
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chem|stZogG: you wont ever get phone numbers from chicks16:14
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chem|styou are a geek, geeks dont have a RL16:14
ZogGchem|st that's the problem, i don't have life and i'm not geek =( makes me loser16:15
ZogGchem|st actually i just don't take numbers - cause not gonna call - i give my number =)16:15
n900-dkZogG: Cheer up - you always have your N900 ;)16:15
* chem|st holds his hand in "L" shape at his forehead16:15
ZogGn900-dk, it's buggy, there is no meaning in life16:16
vanadismobileconnecting by usb doesn't work16:16
ZogGchem|st, how dare you to laugh at me16:16
n900-dkZogG: Sooo sad16:16
vanadismobilewill reflashing do something?16:16
* chem|st starts pointing fingers!16:16
* ZogG cries16:16
chem|stvanadismobile: not if it cannot connect...16:16
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Xenon|XZvandis does it charge?16:17
* ZogG throws wazd at chem|st 16:17
n900-dkZogG: Remember, beer can fix any thing :)16:17
ZogGn900-dk, yeah, that's why i don't have money as well =)16:17
wazdZogG: why me? :( :)16:17
chem|st~rocket ZogG16:17
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ZogG~punch chem|st16:18
* infobot lets fly with a wild haymaker which catches chem|st right on the nose16:18
mikki-kunn900-dk: since when does beer fix everything?16:18
vanadismobileXenon|XZ, no16:18
chem|st~blow ZogG16:18
* infobot blows ZogG16:18
ZogGmikki-kun, you are right, absent does16:18
Corsacmikki-kun: since the beer invention?16:18
chem|st~blowjob ZogG16:18
chem|stok that doesnt work16:18
ZogGchem|st, ~blowjob ZogG*16:18
mikki-kuni thought wd-40 and ductape would fix everything...16:18
chem|stmikki-kun: thats for mechanical stuff16:19
ZogGit's wierd i went to sleep with full batt and in 5 hours it was over, no program running =\16:19
mikki-kunas well as for software... never heard of /dev/ductape and /sys/dev/wd-40 ?16:19
chem|stZogG: had that with PR1 back in february16:20
ZogGMohammadAG, haha, say it to ovi16:20
vanadismobilebattery is loading now16:20
Xenon|XZvandis - what was it?16:20
ZogGchem|st first time happened16:20
chem|stZogG: I had that day after day16:21
ZogGchem|st, i heard of different bugs i didn't have till pr1.2 =)16:21
vanadismobileloose connection16:21
vanadismobileit stopped now...16:21
ZogGMohammadAG, are you going again to get whores and drugs from PT?16:21
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ZogGvanadismobile, you don't need connection, internet is not real16:21
MohammadAGZogG, they don't have those afiak, IL is for those ;)16:21
ZogGMohammadAG, yeah, that's why you need to bring them here =)16:22
ZogGMohammadAG, you know you don't have to suffer at board everytime16:22
MohammadAGZogG, I don't lol16:23
ZogGyou just can dig up tunnel from your house :D16:23
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ZogGhave i blown your secret? =(16:23
ZogGstylo is a good song16:24
* ZogG xmms2> Gorillaz - Stylo (feat. Bobby Womack and Mos Def) ["Plastic Beach" 2010]16:24
ZogGwazd, have you done any maemo5 theme?16:24
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wazdZogG: yes16:24
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ZogGnot bad16:25
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ZogGanyway i wonder why the speaker icon in statusbar's popup is not used as mute?16:26
ZogGit's anyway there16:26
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ZogGsmall things — that's what makes me happy16:26
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ZogGso i watched wolfmnan yesterday, what was gorlum doing there?16:27
b-man17wazd: excellent work :)16:27
wazdb-man17: thanks, I'm trying to update it for 1.216:27
ZogGand did Mark Benard from FlashForward died or not?16:27
wazdb-man17: but I can't find proper template16:27
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Xenon|XZhas anyone noticed that the Personal Dataplan monitor (v0.5-5) doesnt work in PR1.2 ?16:29
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Xenon|XZdoes launch but ignores data count16:30
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ShapeshifterDoes someone know where I can get tput from? is it in some gnu package or something?16:30 - HAHAHA16:30
* DocScrutinizer mooes at the sun16:32
ZogGDocScrutinizer, sup16:33
vanad1swhen connected by usb -> the device starts, then the yellow led ist lighting for ~2 secs, then gets green and shuts off16:33
ZogGfu internet, i don't have any life cause of you16:33
Shapeshifterwithout tput, I could run this highly entertaining cellular automata script16:33
DocScrutinizerZogG: welcome to the club16:34
ZogGvanad1s bad karma16:34
ZogGDocScrutinizer is it party today? \o/16:34
DocScrutinizerinternet party :-S16:34
vanad1sZogG, gonna reflash the device now16:34
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Termanahey DocScrutinizer16:35
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ZogGvanad1s do it16:35
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MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> internet party :-S16:35
MohammadAGdrinks are on me16:36
ZogG|~_ ← kinda nike symbol =)16:36
* MohammadAG passes lcuk's 99 bottles of beer16:36
* Termana tips his drink on MohammadAG16:36
TermanaON him16:36
DocScrutinizervanad1s: (green off) that's really strange16:36
vanad1ssuitable device not found -.-16:36
DocScrutinizervanad1s: or what do you mean by "shuts off"?16:36 - best adv ever16:36
madduckhas anyone seen the n900 boot to the SIM card PIN entry, then the top part above the dialog turns white and the phone reboots16:36
MohammadAGnot me16:37
DocScrutinizervanad1s: the green light -> black off?16:37
vanad1sDocScrutinizer, yes16:37
DocScrutinizervanad1s: or green stays on and screen goes black?16:37
satmddoes 1.2 have a way to set the default call type on the dialpad?16:38
vanad1s1. i put the usb in16:38
vanad1s2. the device vibrates and the yellow leds starts blinking two times16:38
vanad1s3. the led changes to green16:38
lipeAnyone unable to connect to a network with cisco wpa-leap auth?16:38
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ZogGvanad1s green is ok, red is pregnant (would do you expect of putting you *usb* plug in? )16:38
apolis there any way so that when I try to uninstall something it doesn't try to upgrade my system?16:39
DocScrutinizer~trout ZogG16:39
* infobot slaps ZogG around a bit with a large trout!16:39
MohammadAGvanad1s, then the display goes off16:39
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madduckany idea how i can regain control of the phone?16:39
MohammadAGthat's soft power off16:39
MohammadAGthe device is just charging16:40
ZogGmadduck sudo :D16:40
MohammadAGhold the power button and it powers on16:40
vanad1sno it's not, that's the problem16:40
MohammadAG~nuke Nouveau native support in Ubuntu16:40
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Nouveau native support in Ubuntu ... B☢☢M!16:40
madduckZogG: if it won't boot?16:40
ZogGvanad1s hold for a long time till the led is white16:40
ZogGmadduck sudo boot16:40
ZogGmadduck have you upgraded or what?16:40
ZogGMohammadAG use nvidia, Luke16:41
DocScrutinizervanad1s: well, my N900 has a broken power switch16:41
DocScrutinizervanad1s: somewhat similar problem16:41
madduckno, there was some application upgrades last night, and the personal dataplan monitor could not be upgraded due to a conflict with hildon-something16:41
vanad1sDocScrutinizer, okay, and what did you do?16:41
madduckand then suddenly, there were internal errors and e.g. the Phone application wouldn't start anymore16:41
madduckso i rebooted16:41
madduckand now it's power-cycling endlessly16:41
ZogGmadduck flash it16:42
MohammadAGtheer's always R&... no16:42
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DocScrutinizerfor now it works occasionally. but I could et a parameter in flasher r&d mode so it stays on when plugging in to usb16:42
ZogGMohammadAG shhh, don't you see grownups are talking16:42
madduckit starts, vibrates, shows Nokia on white, then the little busy dots, then black, then again the busy dots, then white led and nokia on white, then black, then restart.16:42
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madduckZogG: the OS, eh?16:42
MohammadAGmadduck, a video could help :)16:43
ZogGmadduck yes, prob hildon or X is brokne =)16:43
MohammadAGoh nvm16:43
madduckMohammadAG: really?16:43
MohammadAGsorry I thought vanad1s said that16:43
ZogGMohammadAG phone can't log in into X prob =)16:43
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madduckZogG: okay, so i will flash16:43
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MohammadAGNOLO should have a framebuffer option16:44
MohammadAGthat doesn't need a kernel reflash16:44
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MohammadAGideally fbcon would be toggled by holding the F button16:44
DocScrutinizervanad1s: you should test with just battery in, if you can power it up or at least make led shine by pressing powerbutton16:44
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vanad1sDocScrutinizer, that works properly16:45
vanad1sthe device is normaly booting16:45
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ZogGmadduck have a backup?16:45
madduckZogG: of the data?16:45
DocScrutinizervanad1s: sorry then I'm out of ideas16:45
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madducknot a recent one, but it doesn't matter much16:46
madducki thought flashing didn't erase the data16:46
DocScrutinizervanad1s: what happens when you plug in the charger on a working system?16:46
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ZogGmadduck apps and contacts and calendar16:46
vanad1sthe charger is working16:46
DocScrutinizervanad1s: then lock the screen with the sliding switch16:47
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madduckZogG: i have the contacts elsewhere, the apps i'll just reinstall, and i don't use the calendar, so…16:47
DocScrutinizershould show green led and black screen16:47
Shapeshifterlol hildon-desktop is such a fail app.16:47
madducki assume my conversations (SMS) will be gone too16:47
vanad1sDocScrutinizer, no it's not showing the green led16:47
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MohammadAGShapeshifter, dpkg -r it (seriously, don't do that)16:48
ZogGmadduck so you are good. do know how to flash?16:48
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ShapeshifterMohammadAG: btw, do you know a way of restarting it in PR1.2? since I updated, a pkill hildon-desktop reboots the n900.16:49
Shapeshifterbefore, it just restarted hildon-desktop16:49
madduckonly problem is that I am on amd64, and the flasher tool seems to be i386 only16:49
MohammadAGShapeshifter, pkill?16:50
ZogGmadduck yeap16:50
MohammadAGShapeshifter, killall hildon-desktop works for me16:50
Shapeshifterah nevermind, I found dsmetool -k16:50
pupnikhow bout "reboot"16:50
ZogGmadduck windows?16:50
madduckZogG: no, debian.16:51
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ZogGmadduck it works under 6416:51
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ZogGMohammadAG, do you use fmms?16:51
madduckit does?16:52
madduck% sudo flasher-3.5                                                                                                                        #1008816:52
madduckflasher-3.5: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory16:52
MohammadAGZogG, yeah16:52
ZogGmadduck i dunno i used it under gentoo 6416:52
madducki have libusb installed, but 64bit.16:52
ZogGMohammadAG any special options?16:52
madduckoh, i have chroots! ;)16:52
MohammadAGZogG, ?16:52
ZogGmadduck i use multilib but anyway it's not the problem imo16:52
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ZogGMohammadAG can it screw up configs of internet or something? you just run it and that's all?16:53
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MohammadAGZogG, yep, it works perfectly after installation16:53
madducknow it works in the chroot16:53
MohammadAG(except the part where IL Oragne f'd it, but that's not frals's fault)16:53
ZogGMohammadAG il orange what16:54
MohammadAGf'd, short for fsck'd16:54
ZogGMohammadAG yeah i understand that part16:54
ZogGin which way i mean?16:55
MohammadAGZogG, I can't receive MMS16:55
MohammadAGZogG, it goes into some obox album crap16:55
ZogGMohammadAG haha16:55
ZogGdo you use polite hovac or third option?16:55
* lcuk kicks python for its date handling16:55
MohammadAGHavoc, which is the third option afaik16:56
madduckZogG: it's flashing. thanks16:56
* MohammadAG kicks lcuk for kicking python16:56
ZogGMohammadAG does it screw the internet connection? last time it did16:56
* ZogG kicks MohammadAG for joy16:56
lcukValueError: time data 'Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:18:34' does not match format '%a, %d %m %Y %H:%M:%S'16:56
MohammadAGNope, no problems here16:56
ZogGMohammadAG do you use fapn or else?16:56
MohammadAGWhat's %a?16:57
MohammadAGZogG, nope, it autocreates the apn now16:57
lcukday of the week16:57
lcukabbreviated or full name16:57
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ZogGMohammadAG and it switches every x minuts?16:57
MohammadAGlcuk, it obviously hates you16:58
DocScrutinizerlcuk: %m != feb ?16:58
madduckZogG: it's booting again. but it really just put it back to factory default.16:58
madduckoh no!16:58
MohammadAGZogG, MMS is a push service16:58
madduckit even kept my background!16:58
madduckand calendar!16:58
lcukDocScrutinizer, that would be it :) ta16:58
* lcuk is goin blind with python16:58
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lcuki have had a function which just does this for years16:58
madduckand all conversations16:58
ZogGmadduck told ya16:59
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BCMMhow does one get started programming for maemo?16:59
ZogG<MohammadAG> ZogG, MMS is a push service ?17:00
BCMM(if one already knows C)17:00
ZogGBCMM you get QT creator SDK and here you goes17:00
* lcuk changes it to %b and fixes up the other things17:01
BCMMi thought there was a maemo-specific SDK?#17:01
fralslcuk: strptime!17:01
pigeonanyone uses the java (icedtea6/microemulator) on the n900?17:01
lcukfrals ill strangeptime17:02
MohammadAGZogG, it doesn't need to check at set intervals - that's what frals told me17:02
fralsyes mms is a push service (mostly)17:02
lcukall because i want to format a list of items by frikkin date17:02
fralsthere is a protocol for checking mmbox but its ... bah17:02
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ZogGMohammadAG haha got new fmms, now don't have 3G connection at all17:03
fralslcuk: yeah, ive tried inserting everything in the same format in my db in fmms.. i gave up :p17:03
fralsnow im doing ~2 strptime each time i need to show a date :/17:03
lcukthats actually bad frals :P17:03
vanad1sokay, gonna bring the device to the vendor, fuck this shit17:03
BCMMiirc MMS does something a bit weird like send an SMS with the URL of the message17:03
BCMMthen the phone downloads the actual message17:03
fralslcuk: i know17:04
fralslcuk: but if you get every operator to agree on one time format ill fix my code ;)17:04
* lcuk looks to the sky and says GIVE ME VISUAL BASIC BACK17:04
DocScrutinizermms is a sms with a URL inside17:04
ZogGfrals so the notification release still is not in devel?17:04
* MohammadAG drops a visual basic crate at lcuk 17:05
lcuk:D supply drop17:05
ZogGMohammadAG send me mms17:05
Wolfiefrals: why did you decide to center-align the mms message input?17:05
ZogGMohammadAG NOW!!! =)17:05
fralsWolfie: because nokia ux experts suggested it ;)17:05
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MohammadAGlcuk, enemy care package actually :P17:05
Wolfiefrals: wtf... that makes no sense17:05
MohammadAGZogG, yeah... sure17:05
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fralsZogG: its been in devel for a while17:05
DocScrutinizer~lart lcuk for mentioning VB17:05
* infobot throws lcuk's poor little doggy off a cliff for mentioning VB17:05
Wolfiedid they also suggest to cut words in the middle when the line changes?17:06
MohammadAGwhat kernel parameter allows me to boot into runlevel 3?17:06
ZogGfrals don't see it in statusarea popup as in your screenies17:06
DocScrutinizerthough actually, it *kinda* worked17:06
ZogGMohammadAG srs, can you send me mms?17:06
DocScrutinizerback in 2000 when I touched it last time17:06
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lcukDocScrutinizer, :(17:07
MohammadAGZogG, I'm missing something, your damn number17:07
fralsZogG: anything in the log?17:07
* lcuk installs visual basic on DocScrutinizer's computer17:07
* DocScrutinizer starts fsck to remove the 'bad blocks'17:08
fralsWolfie: does it do that?17:08
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: appending 3 should be enough17:08
ZogGfrals log? does fmms has a log, didn't know17:08
MohammadAGShapeshifter, should I just put that in the kernel line?17:08
lcukfrals, using amazing gitorious line numbers where abouts is your str formatting code17:08
lcukso i can see how a pro does it :P17:09
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: yeah. just "3"17:09
ZogGMohammadAG orange17:09
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ZogGfrals where i check the log?17:09
TomaszDzaheerm, ping17:09
ZogGfrals btw i started fmms and than upgraded, do i need to kill the process to restart it?17:10
fralsZogG: restart fmms is probably good after upgrading17:10
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fralsZogG: /tmp/fmms.log17:10
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ZogGfrals process name?17:10
juve3ciao a tutti17:10
fralslcuk: disclaimer: its ugly as hell ;D17:10
ZogGfrals the gui is killed17:10
fralslcuk: and probably doesnt handle all cases, add try/except as suitable... ;D17:11
lcukfrals, perfect thanks17:11
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* RST38h wonders if he should haunt tmo tonight17:11
RST38hFind some vulnerable soul and help it on the way to the asylum17:11
Juozapashi, all maemo programs is free ?17:11
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Stskeepsbut many17:12
ZogGMohammadAG, got sms =)17:12
ZogGto see the pict go blahblah site17:12
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MohammadAGZogG, told ya17:13
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MohammadAGZogG, give them a call, if it works I'll do it :P17:13
Wolfiefrals: i think it does... don't have my phone with me, but i think the line wrap doesn't take word boundaries into account17:13
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fralsops, youre right, ive set it to wrap_char instead of word17:14
JuozapasStskeeps: what happens if i try to download one of them ? maybe the cost can be counted as my  phone operator bill?17:14
MohammadAGShapeshifter, it still tries to run X17:14
ZogGMohammadAG your number?17:14
ZogGPM me17:14
StskeepsJuozapas: some things come through ovi store, not sure if it goes over your phone bill.17:15
Stskeepsbut data transfer might cost17:15
MohammadAGZogG, umm, shouldn't you have got it?17:15
Juozapasok one more question17:15
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ShapeshifterMohammadAG: you could also try "single". do you know if the cd uses grub 1 or 2? because if it's grub 2 you can't "e" (edit), "esc" and then "b". you have to "e", append whatever to the kernel line, and then ctrl-x to boot17:15
Shapeshifteras opposed to the e, esc, b in grub117:15
madduckooooh, PR 1.2 is out17:15
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MohammadAGShapeshifter, using ISOLinux17:16
madduckbut basically, I should be able to install 1.1.1 and upgrade, right?17:16
madduckthis *is* debian after all ;)17:16
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: oh right xD17:16
Juozapashow to keep off my operator interner (it's very expensive). I want to use only wifi and if there isn't wifi spot just dont connect to web or something17:16
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: then it doesn't matter I guess. in any case, try "single" and I thought there was an ubuntu cli installer17:16
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WolfieJuozapas: isn't there a setting that makes the phone always ask you for connection before it does that17:16
Shapeshifter"simple installer" or something17:16
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MohammadAGShapeshifter, I cba to download another image17:17
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: also, I'm guessing you're having a driver problem? ATI card by chance?17:17
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ZogGfrals, it's ok.17:17
JuozapasWolfie: yeah, it ask for password be i even know that password but it still connect if i type some rando pass17:17
ZogGit there is icon and all the stuf when i send, i thought it works always as i run it17:18
Juozapasmaybe there'is some more powerful option ?17:18
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MohammadAGShapeshifter, nope, they added kernel support for nouveau, it shouldn't cause any problems with intel cards yet my laptop doesn't boot up17:18
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: what now, intel or nvidia?17:19
ZogGMohammadAG got it?17:19
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: what I'm trying to say is that you could try disabling KMS.17:19
MohammadAGZogG, nothing yet17:20
Juozapasby the way, make a video call with skype it's still impossible ?17:20
ZogGMohammadAG hmm17:20
DocScrutinizerJuozapas: remove the connection in internet in setup17:20
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MohammadAGShapeshifter, my lappy's chipset is intel17:20
CorsacI read “lady” …17:20
MohammadAGShapeshifter, I uninstalled xserver-xorg-video-nouveau17:20
MohammadAGwonder if that will actually work...17:20
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: I still don't understand what you'r trying to do where. Aren't you trying to boot an install CD?17:20
DocScrutinizerJuozapas: honestly I can't see how it works without you configuring it first instance17:21
Shapeshifterand what are you doing with nouveau on an intel chipset?17:21
MohammadAGShapeshifter, yeah, it boots up properly but when GDM loads up the laptop just hangs17:21
JuozapasDocScrutinizer: cant delete operator's connection17:21
MohammadAGShapeshifter, it's built into the stock Ubuntu kernel now17:21
Juozapasit blanks delete' button17:21
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DocScrutinizerJuozapas: you always need to set up AP name for GPRS connection17:21
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: ...17:21
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DocScrutinizerJuozapas: then change AP name to random crap17:22
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: uhm, still, nouveau has nothing to do with intel cards. if you have an intel card, you can foget about nouveau17:22
MohammadAGZogG, same SMS crap17:22
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: you can use i915.modeset=0 on the kernel line to disable KMS17:22
Shapeshifterif you have intel17:22
MohammadAGShapeshifter, I added nomodeset17:22
Shapeshifterif you have nvidia, as you're talking about nouveau all the time, it would be modeset=017:22
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ZogGMohammadAG, btw do they work at shabes?17:23
MohammadAGZogG, who?17:23
MohammadAGoh, orange?17:23
MohammadAGthey should17:23
JuozapasDocScrutinizer: ok, it helped thx ;)17:23
sobczykhi, I've downloaded opera mini and it's great, one of the features stands out, the virtual keyboard that is visible when the physical is not. I wonder whether something similar could be done with the default maemo keyboard? I would want to use korean keyboard, not some romanization input17:24
MohammadAGfailsafe x worked \o/17:24
DocScrutinizerWTF is 'delete' not enabled for GPRS interent connection???17:24
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no, you have to use WAIT FOR IT... GCONF!17:25
Juozapashey what about skype video calling ?17:25
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: wut?17:25
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, gconf17:26
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, ask frals, he knows about this stuff more than I do (fAPN)17:26
DocScrutinizerge ce oh en ef17:26
DocScrutinizeryeah what?17:26
MohammadAGfrals, how can DocScrutinizer delete an APN?17:27
MohammadAGdefault one17:27
MohammadAGfAPN allows deletion of new ones only afaik17:27
fralsgconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/17:27
ZogGfrals there is port number in setting? is it for proxy?17:27
ZogGor it's for connection?17:27
fralsand then gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/<id>17:27
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, there you go, go have some gconf love :P17:27
fralsZogG: for proxy17:27
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DocScrutinizerwhy can't I delete the default GPRS connection in settings-internetconnections ?17:28
fralsbecause then a normal user would do it, and then thered be chaos ;)17:29
DocScrutinizerthat's mean17:29
ZogGfrals i found android configuration for mms, they have MMC and MNC as well, any idea what is that/17:29
fralsno need for those, they are related to operator and not needed17:29
fralsits identifiers for oprator pretty much afaik17:29
ZogGfrals jsut we got sms that we have mms instead mms =)17:30
lcukfrals, DocScrutinizer thanks :)17:30
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fralsnp (?)17:30
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DocScrutinizerI did nothing! ( (c) bart simpson)17:31
ZogGfrals portrait mode looks okay btw =)17:31
lcukDocScrutinizer, you spotted the bug in default format i was using and frals showed me about exception handling :P17:31
ZogGfrals nope only when writting not at the mms list =)17:31
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fralsonce i get the energy im going to make the qwerty keyboard i made for vertsms into a proper module and try to get portrait mode mms composing17:31
lcukwithout even realising it :)17:31
ZogGfrals the ctrl+shift+r is ok =)17:31
fralsthe mainview shouldnt be as the widths are hardcoded there ;)17:32
Macermicrob seems broken after updating17:32
* wazd curses nokia for no portrait media player once again17:32
Macerlike.. some pages seem to hang17:33
ZogGMohammadAG remindme tomorrow to call them17:33
MohammadAGZogG, call them, NOW17:33
Juozapassomehow pixelpipe authorize always fail, any ideas ?17:33
ZogGwazd make the voodoo dance17:33
Juozapasim using mastory17:33
ZogGMohammadAG meh17:33
Macerwazd: i agree17:33
MohammadAGWindows has the partition locked cause of an unclean shutdown17:33
Macerthe no portrait media player is lame17:33
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MohammadAGdamn bastards17:33
wazdZogG: it doesn't work properly even with ctrl+shift+r17:33
lcuki made n900 reboot instantly and reproducably last night o_O17:34
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: frals: now ponder that - I got an APN/GPRS connection that 'expires' some certain date in month and I want to change the APN at that very moment *automatically* as otherwise each MB costs me 14.99$17:34
wazdZogG: height is hardcoded17:34
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, make a daemon for it :)17:34
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, on a more serious note, use alarmed and run that command17:34
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: "normal user will get confused"17:35
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wazdMacer: it's just too tricky to switch tracks on the go in landscape17:35
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, use root :)17:35
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DocScrutinizergot no root to use. No plants here :-P17:36
DocScrutinizer[2010-05-29 16:29:08] <frals> because then a normal user would do it, and then thered be chaos ;)17:36
Macerwazi know17:36
Macerit sucks17:36
ZogGwazd i know17:36
pupnikWant government management of network services?  What are the negative consequences?
ZogGMohammadAG tring to play with configs now17:37
DocScrutinizerquite honestly, for everything but a single standard usecase (= customer has a dataplan incl flatrate) the internet connection settings seem quite retarded17:39
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DocScrutinizerI'd not recommend to get a N900 anyway, if you're not willing to get a decent dataplan. But nevertheless this feels totally fubar17:41
madduckoh if only i could select multiple applications to download and install, rather than going through them one by one…17:42
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DocScrutinizerno way to define precedence of particular connections over others, no way to disable particular connections, no way to delete GPRS packet connection AT ALL - W*T*F?!17:43
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: gprs connection name changes name with SIM as well, that's fun.17:44
GAN900DocScrutinizer, yeah, Nokia people get tunnel vision17:45
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GAN900What with their company-paid dataplans and whatnot.17:46
DocScrutinizerusecase: I have a private wifi AP with low range, a GPRS flatrate with a faraway basestation so I get flaky connect, and a local hotspot with rather high fee. how the hell am I supposed to config that like prio1:local wifi, prio2:GPRS, prio3:hotspot ?17:46
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DocScrutinizerSwedeMike: yep17:48
DocScrutinizerSwedeMike: not to think about roaming  <looking scared>17:48
madduckis there really no way to install multiple apps at once?17:49
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: quite fine the whole connectivity management is totally FOS then - nah wait, is it? :-o17:49
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: well, I actually don't think it's a major problem, only time it annoyed me was when I wanted to look at the maps in "offline mode" which doesn't seem to exist.17:51
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DocScrutinizerSwedeMike: It becomes a problem for me once a month, as the above described situation isn't fictive (dataplan expires, MB costs $$$ over same APN then)17:53
DocScrutinizerSwedeMike: I'd like to switch to a different GPRS paccket connection (APN) then, by simply changing something in "conections" like I do when I select a wifi AP17:54
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: what are you solving by changing APN? that it won't connect at all?17:55
ShapeshifterI *really* don't get wth hildon-desktop thinks it is doing. Why it will *almost* always launch an application only once. I tried adding X-Multiple=true and X-Multiple-Instances=true and same with false and combinations of it, and for some inane reason, it *seemingly* works with 'X-Multiple=true', if done in exactly this sequence: have an open window (no matter what app), edit .desktop file to add this line, run application from menu or ...17:55
Shapeshifter... desktop shortcut - several times. It opens fine. but as soon as you close all of them, and rerun the same shortcut again and again, it yet again only opens it once!17:55
Shapeshifterit's insane. it just doesn't work. It's broken.17:55
DocScrutinizerbut I can not create a 2nd packet connection, I can NOT disable the single one default one, only thing I can do is step thru the settings and enter the whole crap from top of my head17:55
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satmdI was about to mention that too17:56
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SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: I have turned off that mine autoconnects to GPRS, isn't that what you want to accomplish?17:56
DocScrutinizerSwedeMike: I change my bill, as the other APN only charges $/MB instead of $$$/MB17:56
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: wow, your mobile provider really tries to screw you.17:57
DocScrutinizerSwedeMike: no, I want to have 2 or more preconfigured APN to choose from17:57
ShadowJKhm, my n900 has deadlocked itself :/17:57
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: security feature :-P17:57
DocScrutinizerit heard about APN madness17:58
SpeedEvilFiling a bug is probably a good idea.17:58
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yes17:58
SpeedEvilExplain your telcos data services, and why you want to do this17:58
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SwedeMikeI'd imagine that is not a bug, it's a feature request. In most countries/companies it doesn't really make sense to have multiple APNs.17:59
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: anyway, the setup and functionality as is, it's quite braindamaged, isn't it?18:00
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SwedeMikespeaking of which, I'd like to reset my "dataplan monitor" counters every month, I haven't been able to find a way to do that?18:00
ZogGdoes ps3 supports ext2?18:00
MohammadAGI LOL'd ZogG18:01
DocScrutinizerI can't even get precedence of GPRS connection over WLAN18:01
ZogGMohammadAG whaT?18:01
SpeedEvilI sometimes want that too.18:01
SpeedEvilI normally want to roam onto wifi if I can.18:02
IkarusSwedeMike: I do it with a crontab entry18:02
MohammadAGZogG, no, but then again what OS other than linux/unix supports ext218:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: otoh that's a 1000% sure WONTFIX for maemo until PR17.418:02
MohammadAGZogG, got a PS3?18:02
IkarusSwedeMike: But I might be able to hack a little UI around it and package it18:02
ZogGMohammadAG yes18:02
DocScrutinizerso what's the use in filing a bug?18:02
MohammadAGZogG, PSN ID?18:02
ZogGMohammadAG, got a deal18:02
SpeedEvilUnless I've expicitly disconnected from wifi as it's broken, and I want to connect to GPRS.18:02
ZogGMohammadAG TheZogG i think - but didn't upgraded it to last fw i think =18:02
ZogGMohammadAG i use my flashusb on winxp at work with ext2 =)18:03
MohammadAGZogG, if you're waiting for the Geohot stuff don't hold your breath :)18:03
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ZogGMohammadAG i know he has no interest in it. just connection in israel crappy anyway18:03
TriztIkarus; would be nice if you could add a history too to the UI, so you can compare months18:04
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IkarusTrizt: hrm, should be doable18:04
ZogGMohammadAG i bought NEW ps3 with 2 new joypads with cabel and 2 games from yad2 and it has garantee and it was 1900 or somethink like that, maybe even less18:04
IkarusTrizt: I'll see18:04
IkarusI didn't quite need that detail myself18:05
SwedeMikeIkarus: that would be nice, lot's of people at seems to want it, but then again, that might be a different one from the one I'm using, because that reset method there doesn't seem to work18:05
ZogGMohammadAG your ID is MohammadAG as i assume18:05
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Ikarusmy data plan just involves after blowing 2GB through I get demoted in speed18:05
* Trizt nods18:05
ShapeshifterEven if I do Exec=/bin/ash -c urxvt , which is of course insane, it only launches it once18:05
MohammadAGZogG, how'd you guess? :P18:05
ShapeshifterAnd also if I use urxvtd + urxvtc18:06
Shapeshifter... It's black magic, bad magic.18:06
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: the sad thing is, I have a nice requirements spec and architecture design inside my head for this, but it's a waste of time writing it down as it will get binned for "too complex, don't need that"18:07
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* madduck dies of boredom installing dozens of apps ONE AFTER THE OTHER18:09
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slonopotamusmadduck: apt-get install x y z18:10
SwedeMikemy major complaint about n900 is standby time, sometimes it seems to gobble juice like there is no tomorrow.18:10
madduckslonopotamus: i was told one should not use apt-get directly because the app manager does extra magic.18:10
slonopotamusoh my... /me deinstall all aps he installed with apt-get on maemo during last three years18:11
AranelIs it possible to use Facebook,MSN,Ovi or anything else without merging contacts with Contacts app? It's frustrating to see lots of contacts on list when I don't even need them on my mobile.18:13
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: "type=wlan; name=athome; baseprio=5; on signal <50 prio-=50; on exec="if ping -c 1; then false; else true; fi" prio-=50; on flightmode prio-=5018:18
pupnikhey interesting18:19
pupnikdoes thatm help keep your connection up?18:19
DocScrutinizerthat would help keep my mood towards N900 connection handling up18:19
ShapeshifterAranel: afaik no and I find it quite annoying as well18:19
Shapeshifterbut hey, pretty much all the nokia made apps suck big time.18:20
ali1234Aranel: well designed services allow you to select which contacts are actually visible18:21
ali1234Aranel: for example you can do it in google (and the contacts list in the phone updates in real time as you edit your contacts on the google website)18:22
ali1234i have not yet figured out how you do it with facebook18:22
Shapeshifterlol @  /tmp/hildon-welcome-is-finished18:23
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Aranelali1234: I think Groups would do it, It's possible to show a group (for ex, Facebook) but It's not possible to hide a group, which we need to do.18:24
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ali1234it's possible to show/hide grounds in the facebook web chat thingy, it just doesn't carry over to the maemo plugin unfortunately18:25
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ali1234i was trying to do this about half an hour ago18:25
ali1234playing with the video calling atm18:25
ali1234its quite good18:25
ali1234although the camera seems to stop adapting to light conditions once you start making a call18:25
ali1234which will suck if you start out in the sun and then go indoors during a call18:26
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ali1234other person will only see black18:26
TomaszDit does adapt, but it takes too long, is what I found out18:26
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pupnikvideo call over irc yet? :P18:27
ali1234doubt it18:27
ali1234is there a plugin like bonjour which supports video? ie lan only?18:27
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pupnikdunno lets search18:27
ali1234i had a search, didn't help much18:28
ali1234i think bonjour might support video using a mac-only protocol18:28
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DocScrutinizereeeek, bonjour18:29
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DocScrutinizer~lart avahi18:32
* infobot gives avahi a good seeing to18:32
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ZogG~poke DocScrutinizer18:33
* infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind DocScrutinizer, pokes DocScrutinizer repeatedly, hilarity ensues.18:33
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mc_teoi just flashed windows onto my n90018:33
mc_teo!18:33  game port candidate18:35
mc_teoi joke, i joke!18:35
mc_teono windows for me18:35
BCMMno X Windows? what went wrong?18:36
ZogGmc_teo win is rulez18:36
mc_teowhy is you here?18:37
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ZogGmc_teo why not?18:37
DocScrutinizerI wonder if there's *anything* to sync contacts, maybe even calendar, to ovi or webdav or my local vcard fatabes, which works ootb now on pr1.2, without going thru install&config hell18:37
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: export?18:38
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infobotDocScrutinizer meant: I wonder if there's *anything* to sync contacts, maybe even calendar, to ovi or webdav or my local vcard database, which works ootb now on pr1.2, without going thru install&config hell18:38
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mc_teoscp, then import18:38
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DocScrutinizerthat's not exactly what I call sync18:38
mc_teoBCMM: x windows is ok, i was speaking about ms windows18:38
BCMMmc_teo: what's MS windows?18:39
mc_teoZogG: actually windows fails quite spectacularly18:39
pupnikWindows are for people stuck behind walls.18:39
mc_teoyou could always just use some Gates?18:40
DocScrutinizerI hate the gates way18:40
Shapeshifteroh god. hildon-desktop *really* keeps a list of apps launched using it >.<18:44
Shapeshifterincredibly daft18:44
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Shapeshifterhardcoded in C18:44
ZogGmc_teo it's not. windows is cool. linux is not working out of box18:46
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pupnikwhy is that bad Shapeshifter18:46
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Shapeshifterpupnik: because you can't launch multiple instances of the same app using the menu or the desktop shortcuts?18:47
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pupniki made a terminal app shortcut that gives multiple xterms18:47
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pupnikwould that help?18:48
Shapeshifterpupnik: can you share that?18:48
Shapeshifterpupnik: yes.18:48
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lardmanhey chaps18:48
pupnikwhere to share.. t.m.o?18:48
lardmanhi pupnik18:48
Shapeshifterpupnik: pastie.org18:49
jaskai wonder what keeps launching intellisyncd with the -a parameter, like in osso-backup restore scripts18:49
jaskanormally intellisyncd shouldnt start if its disabled in /home/user/.intellisyncd/disabled18:50
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DocScrutinizer51Shapeshifter: shift-ctrl-x starts a new xterm?18:51
Shapeshifterthe hildon launcher is designed as if it was some sort of iphone/android concept where you just have one instance of every app and wake it, and put it to hibernate etc.18:52
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer51: I want to launch multiple urxvt18:52
DocScrutinizer51Shapeshifter: well, there's quite obviously an option missing in .desktop files spec. like sameinstance=no18:54
pupnikvery slow Shapeshifter
DocScrutinizer51think Imve seen such parameter in enlightenment .desktop files18:54
pupnikit only bothers me with xerm18:55
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer51: there should be X-Multiple-Instances=true, there supposedly is the wrong X-Multiple=true, but none of this works18:55
Shapeshifterpupnik: thanks18:55
* pupnik is happy to be useful18:56
DocScrutinizer51Shapeshifter: that's what I meant, yes18:56
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* lardman looks at Dell Streak and thinks it's an ideal size, but needs a kb and maemego18:56
DocScrutinizer51Shapeshifter: fil a ticket :-)18:57
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer51: hopeless18:57
DocScrutinizer51so patch the hildon launcher and attach the patch18:58
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Shapeshifterpupnik: heh. doesn't work. it works exactly as you pasted it, but if I replace osso-xterm by /usr/bin/urxvt, it only opens one of them.18:59
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Shapeshifterpupnik: you know I even made some silly detour script like temp=$(cat /tmp/foobar); urxvt -name $temp &; temp=$((temp+1)); echo $temp > /tmp/foobar  which launches every subsequent term with a differen X name (0, 1, 2, 3...)19:00
Shapeshiftereven that launches only once.19:00
* Shapeshifter goes for beers.19:01
DocScrutinizer51Shapeshifter: btw for xterm and especially things like mc that's a total pita. mc won't start on clicking the icon, if there's a xtern instance running already19:01
ali1234what's the deal with the nmap package creating an icon for itself?19:01
DocScrutinizer51probably same as for mc19:02
ali1234all it does is run nmap with no arguments and then dump you at a shell19:02
DocScrutinizer51exec='xterm nmap'19:02
ali1234i expect that the package only creates an icon because of some braindead QA rules19:02
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DocScrutinizer51maybe they messed it up? should call nmap-fe?19:03
Shapeshifterthe whole architecture is flawed. It wants to be somewhat androidish while actually there is no sandboxing and task handling like on android19:03
Shapeshifterit's fake android19:04
DocScrutinizer51let beat up the UX guys ;-)19:04
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ali1234nmap-fe isn't installed19:05
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BCMMthe nmap launcher is weird19:07
BCMMplenty of other CLI apps just don't have a link on the menu19:07
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DocScrutinizermc has19:08
DocScrutinizerequally useless, as mentioned above19:09
ali1234mc does at least keep on running until you quit it19:09
ali1234that makes slightly more sense19:09
ali1234when you click the nmap icon you get the last few lines of the short usage, and a shell prompt19:10
ali1234what i mean is mc is interactive19:10
ali1234nmap is not19:10
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DocScrutinizernow that's really silly, for nmap19:11
ali1234im reporting a bug now19:12
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DocScrutinizer"launcher MUST support X-Multiple-Instances=true"19:14
ali1234the nmap launcher seems to support that, in that it works even if there is already an terminal open19:14
ali1234bug 583919:15
povbot`Bug Modest gets stuck updating POP3 mailboxes19:15
ali1234no, this 5839:
DocScrutinizerali1234: now that's weird19:16
DocScrutinizer(the "nmap launcher seems to support that" part)19:17
DocScrutinizerali1234: mind pastbin the .desktop?19:18
ali1234maybe you can only run one "nmap" xterm19:18
ali1234sure hang on19:18
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ali1234no, seems you can run as many as you want from the icon19:18
mc_teowhats the deal with ovi chat?19:20
mc_teodoes it work?19:20
ali1234heh, the script it runs instead of nmap directly just does: nmap; echo Use \'sudo nmap\' to run nmap with root privileges. ; sh19:20
ali1234i can't believe someone actually went to the trouble of making that19:21
mc_teoZogG: ubuntu is free, they will even send you a free cd, it takes minutes to install, and works perfectly out of the bo19:21
Xenon|XZdont like ubuntu :(19:22
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DocScrutinizer51ok works for mc as well. probably fixed in pr1.0.119:22
DocScrutinizer51mc_teo: yes19:23
ZogGmc_teo no it's not19:23
ali1234ubuntu used to work perfectly out of the box, then they filled it up with mono crap and vendor moneysinks19:23
ali1234luckily it's trivial to remove that stuff19:24
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ZogGmc_teo, ubuntu sucks19:24
ZogGubuntu is shitimacos =)19:24
ZogG shitty*19:24
Xenon|XZGentoo ;-)19:24
mc_teoZogG: i installed 10.04 a fews days ago, and it was fully working out of the box19:24
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ZogGmc_teo, windows works out of box too19:25
ZogGmac os too19:25
mc_teono it doesnt19:25
ZogGyes it is19:25
mc_teomac os is closed source linux btw19:25
ZogGmc_teo, what distro do you use?19:25
mc_teovista normally19:25
ZogGmc_teo, do i care about close or not =)19:25
mc_teoxp on my desktop19:25
ZogGmc_teo, and you advertising me linux?19:26
GAN900mc_teo, it's not Linux19:26
jaskaits eyecandyized openstep19:26
ZogGmc_teo, are you trying to troll me?19:26
mc_teoim just saying that for out of the box compatability, ubuntu owns19:26
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ZogGmc_teo, noooope =)19:26
nikki93I have an iPhone. Jailbroke it. It's still not fun enough. :(19:26
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SpeedEvilOut of the box compatibility - linux-from-scratch owns.19:27
ZogGnikki93, get android on it =)19:27
SpeedEvilIt just takes longer to open the box.19:27
ZogGSpeedEvil, \o/19:27
ZogGmc_teo, you don19:27
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nikki93I made an LFS once.19:27
ZogGyou don't know to convince peoplel man19:27
nikki93Great fun.19:27
* ZogG sys Linux 2.6.33-gentoo [965P-S3; x86_64 Desktop]19:28
ZogGmc_teo, ^19:28
nikki93Is n900 kewl?19:28
Xenon|XZdistro[Gentoo Linux (stable)]19:28
ZogGXenon|XZ, meh, stable is not fun anymore19:28
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: so you looked into what's happening with xterm.desktop, and mc.desktop ?19:28
nikki93I heard n900 is very hack-friendly.19:28
ZogGnikki93 yesm yu take hammer and you hack it19:29
crashanddieOK guys, we get it, you and the A-team are awesome. Now how about we stop talking about each and everyone's super awesome OS?19:29
ZogGnikki93, you can build wals or even bridge with n900s19:29
nikki93ZogG: zomg19:29
crashanddieWe know you built it yourself, you compiled your own kernel and everything, woohoo, big deal, get over it.19:29
lcukcrashanddie, whats your favorite OS?19:29
nikki93ZogG: But what about wals then? D:19:29
DocScrutinizermc_teo: ubuntu ->
crashanddielcuk: Maemo, obviously.19:30
nikki93Damn I envy you guys  with your n900s19:30
lcukrandom RT @lcuk19:30
lcuk@wonderhelm if you combine the 2 sports, the goalie can score points for doing somersaults whilst diving for the ball!19:30
ZogGcrashanddie, let's talk about iphoneos19:30
DocScrutinizermaemo isn't an OS, maemo is a flavour of linux19:31
crashanddieZogG: let's not, unless you want to be removed from the channel.19:31
ZogGcrashanddie, why would i?19:31
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nikki93DocScrutinizer: Linux is a kernel19:31
ZogGnikki93, okay GNu/Linux19:31
crashanddiebecause an op just asked you to remain on-topic, and iphone discussions tend to lead to flame wars19:31
DocScrutinizerso GNU linux if you prefer19:31
lcukDocScrutinizer, a yummy chocolate and banana flavour with 100s and 1000s ontop19:31
nikki93DocScrutinizer: Better. :P19:31
ZogGcrashanddie, if you would follow discussions here for last weeks you would stay alone on chan19:32
ZogGand there is no such thing as flame wars =)19:32
ZogGholywars maybe =)19:32
ZogGanyway it's all jokes, you should relax, i know how hard is life nowdays =(19:33
nikki93So most Qt apps would work outofthebox?19:33
crashanddie"Flamewar redirects here"19:33
nikki93In Maemo?19:33
ZogGcrashanddie so?19:33
crashanddieZogG: don't correct my nerd terms.19:33
ZogGcrashanddie there is flame and wars, you can combine these words - but doesn't sound right19:34
ZogGyou can say maemo wars and make a wiki page =)19:34
* DocScrutinizer envisions crashanddie and timeless sitting in pub arguing about nerd terms19:34
jaskaontological debate19:34
crashanddieZogG: just shut the hell up, I know I am.19:35
ZogGcrashanddie love you too19:35
ZogG~kiss crashanddie19:35
* infobot forces crashanddie to give sr71 a big kiss on the lips19:35
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: actually, we just discuss the differences between English and the bastardised version he speaks.19:35
ZogGcrashanddie, i'm the internetz =)19:36
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: the yank actually demanded that I tag my blog as "en-GB"19:36
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ZogGi heard people who have small penis can kick on chans =)))19:36
crashanddieindeed, we even have special meetings each year19:37
* DocScrutinizer gasps19:37
crashanddieZogG: just let it go now, please.19:37
ZogGcan i check in?19:37
mc_teoban him19:37
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mc_teoi dont like him19:37
crashanddiemc_teo: stfu, you're the troll around here, he's just being daft because he's bored.19:37
ZogGcrashanddie, man, as i said before i'm joking. you just take it too srs and it makes fun =)19:37
mc_teocrashanddie: how am i troll19:37
ZogGmc_teo, haha19:37
* Arkenoi -> switching my primary desktop os19:37
crashanddieZogG: see reply to mc_teo19:37
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DocScrutinizersecondary lang nd-IE19:37
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mc_teoi use windows 97% of the time19:38
BCMMi <3 IRC19:38
mc_teobut i enjoy that 3% that i use ubuntu more than the rest19:38
ZogGcrashanddie, i think i can sacrifice myself for the best of the maemo future and you can ban me ) |i'm stopping, just really was bored =(19:38
Arkenoinever really used windows, tried a bit and found out that it sucks19:39
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ZogGmc_teo, srsly, if you like linux - go for it, what stopping you?19:39
crashanddieZogG: work?19:39
DocScrutinizer<3 crashanddie's foul moods19:39
Arkenoii had 98 on libretto in pre-netbook era as it was too weak for any other os19:39
Xenon|XZWindows sucks, but thats good because otherwise I wouldnt have a job19:39
ZogGcrashanddie, dual boot as he has but primary is linux, vmbox or wine19:40
* Arkenoi is switching from hp-ux to solaris actually ;-)19:40
mc_teohis primary os is wine?19:40
Arkenoi(and it is solaris/sparc)19:40
ZogGnow gonna study at school C and don't know how can i do it with no windows at home =(19:40
crashanddieZogG: nha, actually, if you work in specific corp environments, you don't even have the password to the bios, can't install to boot sector, whatev' (plus, it's not your laptop so you're not allowed to)19:40
DocScrutinizerZogG: err what?19:41
crashanddieZogG: I got my ass kicked for installing a newer version of Office on my laptop, imagine if I changed the OS...19:41
ZogGcrashanddie i was talking about home desktop, as well if you work at IT where i want to work - i hope i get personal laptop or they all use linux19:41
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DocScrutinizerwhat's the problem in staying away from redmond crap for studying C ? o.O19:41
ZogGcrashanddie where do you work - if it's not a secret?19:42
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: visual C, obviously :)19:42
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ShadowJKI don't think redmond has a C99 compiler yet19:42
crashanddieZogG: I don't work there anymore, but it was for a security company, mainly on-site in what basically amounts to bunkers.19:42
ZogGDocScrutinizerbecaue teachers would prob have everything in windows19:42
mc_teoZogG: would you descibe yourself as a winfag?19:42
ZogGand homework would be for windows19:42
DocScrutinizerfriggin ODD19:42
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ZogGmc_teo lol =) when you have nothing to say - just stfu =)19:43
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DocScrutinizerI'd beat them to using OS neutral formats19:43
ZogGcrashanddie i can understand them anyway19:43
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crashanddieZogG: for everything there's a usage. When you're at work, you don't need to mess with the OS, you just need to use the apps. Which is email (outlook), firefox, putty, filezilla, and putty. If you're good with documents and writing crap, you'll have to deal with Visio and Word too.19:43
Tootoot222liveUSB ftw?19:44
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crashanddieZogG: honestly, it's too much of a bother to try and fight the system in that way. You can spend 2 years flaming everyone in the company, trying to convince the company that they could be running Linux, or you just get on with your job, and do what you're being asked. Guess which one will earn you a promotion.19:44
ZogGcrashanddie, if you can manage to upgrade office a lot of people don't , so adminisstrators have to fix all these shit people are doing when they think they are hackers(not about you). at my work some peopl think they know computer and got all apps with viruses. i'm tierd of fighting with them19:44
DocScrutinizerTootoot222: depending on company policy, the sysop may beat the shit out of you19:45
crashanddieThe loud obnoxious ass doesn't get a promotion, he gets put in the closet where noone can hear him.19:45
jaskaif the company forces linux devs to use windows on work machines then im in the wrong company :)19:45
lcukor sent off to australia ;)19:46
crashanddiejaska: obviously19:46
crashanddielcuk: shush19:46
ZogGcrashanddie that's why i agree, but back to the question. if mc_teo enjoys linux and i assume he has comp at home, he can set linux there and use it not 3% but 24/719:46
mc_teoi would of thought more people here would of used linux, considering maemo is19:46
ZogGlcuk canada =)19:46
crashanddieZogG: there is already crapware for Linux, and spyware too. It's only a matter of time before corporations start using $DISTRO, and the same assholes you have to deal with will be running botnets and spyware on their Linux installs.19:46
crashanddiemc_teo: "would have"19:47
ZogGmc_teo here maybe, but most people who buy n900 don't as most people don't understadn the difference, they use what they got and don't mind to ask what is it =)19:47
mc_teocrashanddie: doesnt change the msg19:47
Xenon|XZi bought an N900 because I heard it ran Linux19:47
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DocScrutinizerjaska: well it's like if Nokia hands balckberrys to their employees19:47
SpeedEvilI bought a N900 because I herd it liked mudkipz.19:48
Tootoot222crashanddie: that's exactly why you only install programs that are maintained by your distro, and open source19:48
Tootoot222so you know what is a botnet and what is not19:48
ZogGcrashanddie it's not about secure, it's about policy, though i use flash and closed drivers, i prefer free software when you have choice.19:48
crashanddieTootoot222: and you think half the windows installs are infected because people downloaded shit religiously from
crashanddieTootoot222: people want titties, spyware gives them titties19:48
ZogGSpeedEvil, i bought it because pr1.2 chuck norris thread was awesome19:49
Tootoot222crashanddie: if you only downloaded from you end up with nothing19:49
crashanddieTootoot222: people want happy bunnies, spyware gives them happy bunnies19:49
lcukZogG, +1019:49
nikki93crashanddie: Are you trolling?19:49
lcuki believe he is19:49
ZogGlcuk, Norris or choise?19:49
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nikki93Then lets ignore him and get on with life.19:49
DocScrutinizer(blackberry) btw I know of a company that was in building phones and didi exactly that19:49
ZogGnikki93, haha. welcome to the IRC19:50
lcukZogG, with chuck norris on your side, you have all the choices you want19:50
Tootoot222crashanddie: even if you downloaded an infected video that uses a buffer overflow of some sort, those bugs get fixed very fast (if they're even present at all)19:50
nikki93ZogG: I've been here a long time, thank you. ;)19:50
crashanddieit just astonishes me that people think Linux will be the be-all end-all solution to spyware and botnets19:50
nikki93ZogG: Just learnt enough to not waste time with trolls.19:50
ZogGlcuk, yeah, you know if chuck has n900 and you have n900, chuck norris has better phone19:50
lcuknahhh the honour virus shows that19:50
nikki93crashanddie: Linux is a kernel.19:50
Xenon|XZspyware will not infect a linux system unless you run everything as root19:50
ZogGnikki93, you are stubborn19:51
crashanddieyou can run things in the user environment without being root19:51
crashanddiethat's enough for a botnet19:51
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lcukXenon|XZ, but to install anything normally dont most distros sudo the process?19:51
nikki93ZogG: I just tell the truth D:19:51
noidea`so many people19:51
ZogGnikki93, the thing is that lang is changing and igff everyone name GNU/Linux is Linux it's linux19:51
Xenon|XZyes, but unless ur a troll u will be fine19:51
ZogGnikki93 and no crashanddie is not trolling, he is discussing with little sarcasm maybe sometimes |truth19:51
nikki93ZogG: Still, I don't see how a distro could be 'the final solution'. It's all a matter of people using it you know.19:52
crashanddieTootoot222: mate, have you looked at spyware or a botnet system lately? They don't require any hacks or exploits. They ask the user "Do you want to see boobies? If so, click on "Install"", and guess what, people click on "install"19:52
nikki93ZogG: mkay19:52
lcukdo .install files exist for other distros, or is it a maemoism?19:52
* satmd confirms crashanddie19:52
lcukie browse to random website and do a one click install of random file from untrusted repo19:52
satmdsad but true19:52
ZogGnikki93, what do you mean by final solution?19:52
nikki93crashanddie: I've been using Linux for a while, haven't had such problems.19:52
ZogGlcuk, i think buntu19:52
nikki93ZogG: Solution to botnet and spyware in this context.19:52
* DocScrutinizer /kicks nikki93 to ##RMS19:52
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lcuknikki93, but you could use windows for same duration and not have problems19:53
nikki93DocScrutinizer: root mean square? D:19:53
crashanddielcuk: .deb auto installs (pretty much), .bin files usually run and get user access19:53
Arkenoicrashanddie, well, on my previous job out it department sabotaged providing and magaging linux machine for me with any possible effort, so it ended up with them giving me passwords to access corporate resources and setting the system up by myself19:53
nikki93lcuk: Yup. Never said otherwise really.19:53
DassuAnybody else having gprs problems with enhanced power-user linux kernel?19:53
ZogGnikki93, oh, as i said i discuss linux not as global solution but the choise f my use. and if person is stupid he got viruses even at calculator =)19:53
DocScrutinizernikki93: well, dunno if he's mean, but for sure he's square19:53
SwedeMikeI'm curious regarding standby time people have on their N900, so I created a survey. It's just a single question, if you feel like participating, please go to <>19:53
Arkenoithough we had rhel desktop as officially supported workstation system19:53
* Dassu can't seem to get a connection across19:53
crashanddielcuk: if you sugarcoat it enough, I'm pretty sure you could get people to chmod +x filename and sudo ./filename it anyway19:53
lcuknikki93, the operator of the computer usually has their own level of concern about their system and wont do things if they smell wrong19:53
ZogGlcuk, nope, until you don't check pr0n sites19:54
nikki93I have to study for a chemistry test. D:19:54
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IkarusSwedeMike: it depends and most strongly depends on having packet on/off and how bad the reception o it is :)19:54
ZogGcrashanddie, actually it's not install files do the thing but app manager knows to run them?19:54
SwedeMikeIkarus: well, that's the kind of feedback I would like as well, because I've done quite a lot of testing and for me it's inconclusive.19:54
crashanddieZogG: aye19:54
IkarusSwedeMike: I can confirm this pretty well19:55
ZogGas example if i write program that would open .ebuild and emerge automagicly =)19:55
lcukSwedeMike, i rarely use my devices "lightly"19:55
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IkarusSwedeMike: given I do alot of train travel with good maps on HSDPA reception along the routes19:55
SwedeMikeIkarus: for instance, in my testing it seems that just the fact of having my headset plugged in uses a heap of juice, don't know if it's the app that detectsthat and supposed to turn off the volume when I take it out that uses the juice.19:55
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crashanddieZogG: except that there are some permission foo going on, allowing the app manager to use dpkg, without root status or something. You'd need to find a workaround that19:55
Xenon|XZdyou think that ovi maps will get voice guided navigation someday?19:55
SwedeMikeIkarus: but yes, running 2G without packet up and running on a freshly rebooted unit makes the standby time much better.19:56
ZogGSwedeMike, headphone deamon on extra rep?19:56
SwedeMikeZogG: yes.19:56
IkarusSwedeMike: also running wifi or a solid 3G packet connection works alot better19:56
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Ikaruswifi beating 3G19:56
lcukSwedeMike, why isnt there an option for "over 9000 hours"?19:57
mc_teoSwedeMike: my juice is being drank19:57
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ZogGcrashanddie you can do it, or with dirty hack or with udev rules(or what thing can give you permission) as for example it gives user permission to reboot19:57
ZogGSwedeMike and it doesn't work?19:57
mc_teoSwedeMike: since i installed pr1.2 my battery last half as long19:57
lcuki can make n900 shutdown in a fraction of a second by calling xrandr something19:58
SwedeMikeZogG: it does work, but it seems I double the power consumption with my headset plugged in.19:58
Ikaruswifi with xchat (on a dozen or so channels) and jabber on lasts around 10 hours, on packet with a stable connection between 6 and 8 hours and with a dodgy 3G connection which requires alot of reconnects I can blow through it in 3 hours19:58
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ZogGSwedeMike hm, you mean even if you don't use them and they are in battery dies faster?19:58
lcukmc_teo, thats odd, most things have better battery consumption due to numerous combinational tweaks19:58
SwedeMikewhat is the easiest way of saving screenshots, I can show you some interesting differences in batterygraph19:58
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ZogGlcuk [pr1.2 is a pie, i mean a lie =)19:59
lcukSwedeMike, CTRL+p i think19:59
SwedeMikeZogG: yes, just having the plugged in.19:59
ZogGSwedeMike ctrl+shift+p19:59
Ikaruspr1.2 hasn't influenced battery life at all for me19:59
lcukmaybe shift too19:59
ZogGSwedeMike that's wierd19:59
SpeedEvil2G is lots better than 3G if you can use it.19:59
IkarusSpeedEvil: not the case for me19:59
IkarusSpeedEvil: 2G and 3G where about equal19:59
ZogGSpeedEvil, i go for 1G19:59
lcukwith people doing xchat on n900 and noticing power draining faster19:59
SwedeMikehm, cltr-shift-p doesn't say anything, but it saves it somewhere silently?19:59
lcukperhaps its because the channels are busier19:59
lcukthis week maemo and meego have been buzzing20:00
ZogGSwedeMike, yes20:00
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SwedeMikeactually sending packet on 3G take a lot of power.20:00
ZogGSwedeMike, images → screenshots20:00
mc_teolcuk: ive noticed that yes20:00
lcuksure SwedeMike but if the channel is busier, its doing a lot of the same20:00
lcukwell mc_teo both had released this week20:00
mc_teolurking on #maemo drains your battery faster20:01
Ikarusmc_teo: heh20:01
Ikarusmc_teo: mine lasts 6 - 8 hours doing that20:01
Ikarusor 10 if I am on wifi20:01
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lcukmc_teo, thats obvious, try lurking on ##c or #ubnutu or something too20:01
mc_teoi am always on wifi20:01
lcukyour battery will drain even faster20:01
ZogGlet's make test: 2 N900 with xchat one on meego and one on maemo chans, which one die faster20:01
lcukmaemo - we gossip more20:01
DocScrutinizerlcuk: questionable20:02
ZogGi think meego20:02
lcukmeego goes practically silent outside "office hours"20:02
DocScrutinizerlcuk: there's a 'saturation' level reached quite quickly20:02
ZogGas N900 jealous and hates meego20:02
lcukapart from occasional20:02
lcuk* tumbleweed rolled through channel20:02
ZogGlet's go to meego now20:02
ZogGand continue there20:03
lcukDocScrutinizer, ?20:03
lcukbut if theres 10k lines being processed by xchat20:03
lcukthats nothing to do with the wireless level20:03
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DocScrutinizer3G stays 'online' for some (10s) seconds after each packet20:03
DocScrutinizerso additional packets come "for free" during that period20:03
lcukapart from the work done to add the data to the channel object20:04
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SpeedEvilIkarus: Yeah - I should have qualified that with 'in my case'20:05
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: actually there are two modes, and full idle is 30 seconds without any packets.20:06
SpeedEvilIn my measurements, 2G - flat out - was about the same as 3G sending a packet every few seconds.20:06
* lcuk grabs popcorn20:06
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: first you have HS, which timeouts quite quickly (around a second), then you get your 64kilobit/s channel, that timeouts after 30 seconds.20:06
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DocScrutinizer51SwedeMike: :-)20:07
frals~curse MMS20:07
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, MMS !20:07
odin_what was the rationale for bumping on Maemo5 ?20:07
SpeedEvilSwedeMike: What is the transition between 3 and 3.5g?20:07
SwedeMikehm, I really can't find my screenshots... I mounted my N900 as mass storage device from my linux, can't find anything, also looking in xterm on the n900, ... any hints?20:07
DocScrutinizer51says the author of fmms20:07
SpeedEvilSwedeMike: Or is 3.5G - HS cnannel active?20:08
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SwedeMikeSpeedEvil: 3.5G is HS resource allocated, yes.20:08
fralsDocScrutinizer: not my fault operators are stupid when implementing it :(20:08
SwedeMikeSpeedEvil: it can take 1-2 seconds to get that up and running.20:08
SpeedEvilSwedeMike: Hmm - I need to check 60s pings and 90s I guess too.20:08
SpeedEvil - as well as make that page better.20:09
mc_teodoes ovi chat account thingy use your account?20:09
SpeedEvilSwedeMike: Thanks.20:09
DocScrutinizer51SwedeMike: check for hidden folders20:09
SwedeMikeI work for a mobile phone operator, did some tests regarding that... you can try it yourself by checking the time it takes to get packets in/out after those intervals, it takes the longest after 30s of idle (it's settable by the mobile operator though, but I think 30s is default)20:10
SpeedEvilSwedeMike: Hmm - yeah - that's an easy thing to test.20:10
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SwedeMikeah, .images of course20:10
* SpeedEvil needs to setup a reverse SSH tunnel.20:10
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DocScrutinizer51SwedeMike: you know about 3G-2G handover?20:11
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer51: a little.20:11
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mc_teoSpeedEvil: what do mean reverse?20:11
PhonicUKhey all20:11
SpeedEvilSwedeMike: Does the 3G network inform the 2G side of the available 2G towers?20:11
mc_teowouldnt it just be the same?20:11
mc_teojust in the opposite direction20:12
SpeedEvilmc_teo: No - you can't typically take inbound connections on mobile internet20:12
PhonicUKanyone know if there is a PSX emu for the N900 with decent performance?20:12
SpeedEvilmc_teo: So you need a ssh session tunneled by the phone to a server which lets you push in that direction20:12
Macerwtf is ovi? only time i even thought about ovi was when i tried the crappy maps20:12
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: you need to swap ome 2 with e in there20:12
mc_teowell maybe not where your from20:12
ali1234PhonicUK: noooooo20:12
mc_teobut im using mobile broadband all the time20:13
ali1234PhonicUK: you won't be playing any games full speed, unless they are really simple20:13
mc_teoi have a usb mobile modem, plugged in to my router20:13
SpeedEvilmc_teo: you can connect from outside to your phones IP?20:13
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: you need to swap one 2 with 3 in there20:13
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I don't think so.20:13
PhonicUKI know, its a shame because there is a PSX emu for the Pandora (same CPU, etc) which gets full speed emulation20:13
mc_teoSpeedEvil: i use hspda or w/e as my fixed line broadband20:13
arachnist~curse flash20:14
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, flash !20:14
ali1234PhonicUK: you can get to about 80-90% of real PSX speed if you disable compositing and pulseaudio20:14
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I was meaning - does the 2G modem need to search for them - or is itnformed if it has an active 3G connection20:14
PhonicUKi know :P20:14
ali1234PhonicUK: pandora uses neither of those (actually it uses raw framebuffer, even faster)20:14
SpeedEvilmc_teo: But does it accept inbound connections.20:14
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DocScrutinizer<SpeedEvil> SwedeMike: Does the 3G network inform the 2G side of the available THREE- G towers?20:14
mc_teoi used to run a webserver20:14
PhonicUKit doesn't use the framebuffer anymore actually :P20:14
SwedeMikeSpeedEvil: yes, both 2G and 3G network advertises "neighbours" that should be considered for handover.20:14
SpeedEvilmc_teo: Many don't.20:14
ali1234but even then it can't do full speed in all games20:14
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PhonicUKthey got decent speed under X20:14
ali1234psx4all does on pandora port20:14
SpeedEvilmc_teo: Which is a good thing for moile battery case.20:15
mc_teoSpeedEvil: and i use for ssh tunnelling when im in school20:15
SwedeMikeoki, so some of my batterygraph screenshots are available at , this one is very agressive for instance:
PhonicUKI don't think psx4all for maemo has been kept up to date with the other versions though20:15
MohammadAG<ali1234> psx4all does on pandora port20:15
MohammadAGit has a GPU plugin20:15
mc_teoSpeedEvil: but its not really a mobile20:15
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: even more interesting: Does the 2G network inform the 3G side of the available 2G towers?20:15
MohammadAGthere's a huge thread about it on tmo20:15
ali1234psx4all for maemo is up to date with psx4all public source release20:15
ali1234no idea what the original developer is cooking up internally20:15
MohammadAGali1234, the pandora plugin isn't open source - yet20:15
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MohammadAGGPU plugin20:16
ali1234MohammadAG: you mean the "new" pandora plugin20:16
PhonicUKmaybe we'll get something better eventually20:16
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PhonicUKmaybe we'll get Ari64 :)20:16
ali1234because there is one in the public source, but it uses FB20:16
mc_teoi can not recieve dsl or adsl or anything through land line20:16
mc_teoso i have a Three data modem20:16
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: SwedeMike: and are here clearly specified criteria when to "roam" 2G<->3G?20:16
ali1234anyway i dont think the cpu is fast enough personally, despite what pandora appears to do20:17
mc_teouses hspda, with edge, and gprs as fallbacks20:17
SpeedEvilmc_teo: I know.20:17
SpeedEvilmc_teo: I'm just saying that having an open connection onto the internet for most phones is bad.20:17
mc_teoi get upto 7.4Mb/s20:17
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: SwedeMike: are carriers usually setting up their services to handover the DHCP lease?20:17
SpeedEvilmc_teo: As it will keep the modem much of the time active recieving probes from botnets20:18
PhonicUKali1234, if the pandora can do it, theres no reason for the N900 not to20:18
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: I'm sure a mobile phone engineer would call it clear, I don't understand it well enough to do it :)20:18
PhonicUKexactly the same SoC20:18
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: normally you move the IP, yes. Usually DHCP isn't used, it's PPP.20:18
Stskeepsif people used iphb we'd probably be having more 3g efficient applications20:18
ali1234PhonicUK: i don't believe the pandora can do it well enough to be worth it20:18
DocScrutinizeraaah yes20:18
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: it's called a GTP carrier, and it's media independant.20:19
PhonicUKthe pandora gets full speed :\20:19
PhonicUKeven at 500MHz instead of 600MHz20:19
ali1234also, i don't believe the SoC can do it and still be in a mode where you can receive incoming calls20:19
DocScrutinizerSwedeMike: thanks a lot :-)20:19
MohammadAGPhonicUK, (cc ali1234)20:19
MohammadAGit's not about the CPU20:19
SpeedEvilali1234: The CPU and the modem are completely independant20:19
MohammadAGthe pandora uses the DSP/GPU20:19
SpeedEvilali1234: I have woken the n900 from suspend-RAM with calls20:19
ali1234SpeedEvil: oh really? so i can make a phone call while pulseaudio is not running?20:19
ali1234SpeedEvil: and answer a call while hildon-desktop is not running?20:20
SpeedEvilali1234: That's not quite what I said.20:20
ali1234i think not20:20
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SpeedEvilali1234: Since when was hildon-desktop and pulseaudio part of the SoC?20:20
ali1234i don't believe that N900 can run a PSX emulator full speed while compositing and pulse are running20:20
ali1234so i choose between being able to receive calls, and playing a PSX emulator20:20
MohammadAGWhat you believe =! What will happen20:21
ali1234that's no choice at all20:21
Stskeepsor pause the psx emu while calling? ..20:21
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ali1234Stskeeps: you mean: pause the psx-emulator, restart hildon, restart pulse... 30 seconds later, the person ringing you has hung up, and the "answer" button has only just finished repainting20:21
MohammadAGBut.. why?20:21
MohammadAGhildon shouldn't interfere with an emulator20:22
MohammadAGor pulseaudio20:22
ali1234but they do20:22
MohammadAGhow'd you check/prove that20:22
ali1234try running any emulator with them enabled. pulse will use 25% CPU, hildon will use 25% CPU20:22
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MohammadAGand the DSP will be @ 0 load20:22
ali1234emulators by nature update the whole screen at a high rate, and send lots of small audio packets20:23
MohammadAG(well not 0, but you get the point)20:23
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ali1234both worst case for compositing/sound server20:23
DocScrutinizerali1234: 25% of which cpuclock freq?20:23
ali1234DocScrutinizeri assume max since it was 25% -> pulse, 25% -> hildon, 50% -> psx4all20:23
DocScrutinizerali1234: not arguing in favour of PA - I hate it. But those figures are quite meaningless20:23
ali1234i rather like PA on desktop20:24
MohammadAGpulseaudio isn't tied to hildon-desktop20:24
ali1234i never said it was20:24
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DocScrutinizeranyway, got to go - there's RL needs to obey. cya #maemo20:24
ali1234i said you need both pulse and hildon running if you want to be able to answer an incoming call before the person hangs up20:24
DassuFuck yeah20:25
Dassufixed my gprs0 not working problemo20:25
Dassunow back to the serious business: Getting mobilehotspot to work while breaking gprs again20:25
SpeedEvilali1234: - claims that since 1.1 - any fullscreen app bypasses the compositor20:27
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ali1234it's been possible to "bypass the compositor" by setting WM hints since forever, but it doesn't actually improve the speed in any way20:27
MohammadAG<ali1234> i said you need both pulse and hildon running if you want to be able to answer an incoming call before the person hangs up20:27
MohammadAGnot quite20:27
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MohammadAGjust tested it20:27
ali1234the only way to get an actual speedup is to killall hildon-desktop20:27
MohammadAGhildon desktop is not needed to answer a call20:27
MohammadAGor reject it20:28
ali1234how do you press the answer button with no wm running?20:28
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MohammadAGyou look at the device and click answer20:28
ali1234buttons dont respond to input if no wm in running20:28
SwedeMikeAndroid has this nice program that'll estimate every application power consumption, wish there was a similar one for the N900.20:28
MohammadAGthey do20:28
ali1234they didn't on the old firmware20:28
MohammadAGthey did20:28
MohammadAGdon't spread BS facts20:28
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ali1234some buttons work, many dialogs do not20:30
MohammadAGall call buttons work20:30
Proteousterminal history works for user and not just root now. I am so happy20:30
MohammadAGkilling HD or PA would not necessary if PSX4ALL had the GPU plugin20:31
ali1234dont forget that without PA you cannot mix the sound from that incoming call even if you can answer it20:32
ali1234GPU plugin is not going to help you with that20:32
MohammadAGWell duh20:32
MohammadAGit is20:32
ali1234you either use PA, or the emulator locks the sound device and no other app can make sound until you quit20:33
MohammadAGI don't think I need the person calling me to hear my PSX games, when a call comes the phone apps gets priority20:34
ponyofdeathhi, anyone else having issues with the orientation of the phone screen? seems its mostly in landscape20:34
SpeedEvilali1234: Also - I notice that media player playing fullscreen turns compositor off totally - no CPU usage20:34
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SpeedEvilali1234: mplayer - fullscreen - CPU usage of hildon desktop is in the 3% range.20:34
ali1234anyway i'm not going to argue about this any more, if you think i am wrong, then prove it. make an emulator that runs full speed20:34
MohammadAGWait for ZodTTD...20:35
ali1234even the snes emulator cannot manage 50fps last time i tried it20:35
MohammadAGI don't see why the pandora can do it20:35
ali1234(unless you kill hildon and pulse)20:35
MohammadAGthe picodrive emu runs at 60fps locked20:35
MohammadAGwith no frame drops20:35
ali1234the pandora can do it because 1. it does not use hildon, 2. it does not use pulse20:35
* pupnik_ laughs20:35
ali1234and 3. because zod wrote some better plugins for the hw20:35
pupnik_ty ali123420:35
MohammadAG1. hildon is switched off in fullscreen mode 2. uh...20:36
SpeedEvilOops - my bad.20:36
MohammadAG3. which is what we're waiting for...20:36
ali1234see the thing is that 1. gives a 25% speed increase, 2. gives 25%, and 3. gives about 5%20:36
ali1234without 1 and 2, 3 won't make much difference, you'll still be stuck at about 70% full speed20:37
SpeedEvilali1234: Hildon desktop - with mplayer fullscreen - and xterm in the background not scrolling furiously - uses 0.2% of CPU20:37
MohammadAGhow did you actually check with 320:37
ali1234but what do i know. prove me wrong, i would love to have a good emulator20:37
SpeedEvilali1234: So I'm pretty sure your point about hildon desktop is bogus.20:37
TomaszDzaheerm, ping20:37
MohammadAGand about the plugin part20:37
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SpeedEvilIt may not have been bogus in the past - but now.20:37
zaheermTomaszD, pong20:37
ali1234SpeedEvil: mplayer just is not a good test because it can buffer the audio/video streams20:38
ali1234SpeedEvil: a good test is an emulator of some ooooooold machine running fullscreen20:39
SpeedEvilali1234: I don't care.20:39
SpeedEvilali1234: I am looking at top20:39
ali1234an emulator that by rights really should run at fullspeed with ease20:39
SpeedEvilali1234: hildon-desktop is using ~0.2% CPU with mplayer fullscreen20:39
MohammadAG<ali1234> SpeedEvil: mplayer just is not a good test because it can buffer the audio/video streams20:39
ali1234and that proves what?20:40
MohammadAGit's not "good" because it loads the CPU20:40
MohammadAGit proves you wrong :)20:40
ali1234mplayer loads the CPU not the graphics hardware20:40
SpeedEvilali1234: you were earlier claiming that hildon-desktop was eating lots of CPU.20:40
SpeedEvilali1234: Due to compositing windows that were high-motion.20:40
ali1234because it is compositing, and the graphics hardware is not fast enough20:40
SpeedEvilYou don't get much more high-motion than the video I was using to benchmark with -benchmark20:40
ali1234the bottleneck is not CPU20:41
MohammadAG<ali1234> mplayer loads the CPU not the graphics hardware <-- so does PSX4ALL20:41
ali1234you do if that video is only 25fps20:41
ali1234what frame rate is your video? hmm?20:41
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SpeedEvilali1234: 84.20:41
SpeedEvilali1234: -benchmark20:41
ali1234MohammadAG: no, psx4all loads the graphics hardware20:41
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ali1234because it uses it in an extremely inefficient way20:42
MohammadAGali1234, last I checked it only used the CPU20:42
MohammadAGwhich is why they need the GPU plugin20:42
ali1234oh? you didn't notice it drawing things on the screen?20:42
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ali1234how do you think that stuff gets there?20:42
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MohammadAGIt doesn't use it to emulate the PSX games20:43
MohammadAGanyways, this discussion is boring since it was based on wrong facts to begin with20:43
MohammadAGyou were proven wrong twice - which says quite a lot20:43
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ali1234i must have missed the point where you produced a psx emulator that runs at full speed on n900 - twice20:44
SpeedEvilHildon-desktop is using no CPU in the case of fullscreen high-motion video. Are you claiming it's using some other resource?20:44
SpeedEvil(with mplayer)20:44
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GAN900T R O L L20:45
mc_teohow do i use ovi chat?20:45
MohammadAGAdd an account in settings and use the Contacts app20:46
Proteousyou have to have collected at least 2 magical unicorns first20:46
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ali1234SpeedEvil: what mplayer version are you using?20:49
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ali1234because when i use mplayer -benchmark Nokia_N900.avi i see mplayer 50% CPU, Xorg 32% CPU, and pulseaudio 20% CPU20:50
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SpeedEvilali1234: and where is hildon-desktop in that list?20:51
ali1234SpeedEvil: xorg cpu usage drops down to ~2% if you stop hildondesktop20:51
ali1234the overhead of compositing shows under xorg cpu usage20:51
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MohammadAGali1234, which version of mplayer are YOU using20:54
ali1234i'm using the one from extras (command line)20:54
SpeedEvilali1234: mplayer -fs/20:54
pupnik_45, 31, 920:54
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MohammadAG  864   720 root     S <  13060  5.3 17.2 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log <-- hildon-desktop off20:56
MohammadAGso again, wrong20:56
ali1234-benchmark does not affect the framerate, i stil have idle time in both cases20:56
ali1234so, neither the CPU nor the graphics are loaded by this test20:57
pupnik_wonder why your PA is twice as high as mine running that mplayer -benchmark20:57
MohammadAG 864   720 root     S <  16472  6.6 17.1 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log <-- hildon-desktop running20:57
SpeedEvilOk - hildon-desktop dead.20:57
MohammadAGassuming I'm not an idiot, 17.1 < 17.220:57
SpeedEvilX is still using the same amount of CPU in either case.20:58
ali1234ah -nosound too20:58
MohammadAGthird time proven wrong20:58
TomaszDholy crap, the next iphone is going to have a 960x640 screen20:58
MohammadAGwhat does nosound have to do with X!20:58
SpeedEvilnohup mplayer -nosound -benchmark -fs20:58
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: it means that it goes as fast as it can decode frames20:58
odin_killing its control process did it, bash is already working again :)  it may have hung because I did a restore and forcaweather config files already exit (well that what I am telling myself)20:59
MohammadAGsame load with hildon-desktop dead20:59
SpeedEvil /etc/rc0.d/K20hildon-desktop stop21:00
SpeedEvilto stop it safely21:00
MohammadAGI just used dsmetool21:00
SpeedEvilwithout the dog barking21:00
SpeedEvilor that21:00
MohammadAGMy dog's dead21:00
MohammadAGI killed it last week21:00
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MohammadAGali1234, how did you stop hd?21:02
SpeedEvilThat's not exactly a very huge result.21:02
ali1234/etc/init.d/hildon-desktop stop21:02
ali1234SpeedEvil: yes it is smaller than on previous firmwares21:02
MohammadAGali1234, and you restarted mplayer after that?21:02
ali1234SpeedEvil: and when running windowed the difference is much bigger21:02
ali1234MohammadAG: yes21:03
MohammadAGali1234, well, those figures look BS, mplayer has the same PID for both jobs21:03
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ali1234no it doesn't21:03
ali12341805 vs 181921:03
ali1234um so what?21:04
ali1234i ran it from the same shell each time21:04
SpeedEvilAlso - how are you getting those numbers21:04
ali1234from top21:04
SpeedEvilthey bounce around considerably21:04
SpeedEvilyou have to average - you can't do it like that21:04
ali1234this is true21:04
ali1234ok, so what should i do? just time it maybe?21:05
MohammadAGI take the mean of ten values21:05
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ali1234this is with and without benchmark output from mplayer:
ali1234first is with, second is without21:06
ali1234i don't know what it means but it looks like it was almost exactly the same21:06
MohammadAGabout 21 with hildon-desktop running21:06
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ali1234this should give a speed boost then21:07
ali1234but bare in mind that you're still give ~20% CPU to Xorg even with hildon disabled21:08
SpeedEvil15.87s without hildon-desktop to 18.0 without isn't exactly a huge boost21:08
SpeedEvilIt's not useless, no.21:08
ali1234where'd you get those nmbers from?21:08
ali1234OK, so whatever they didto fullscreen rendering, it is certainly an improvement over the previous firmware21:09
SpeedEviltime mplayer -quiet -nosound -benchmark  Babylon\ 5\ -\ 1x06\ Mind\ War21:09
pupnik_it is ali123421:09
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MohammadAGI would flash to PR1.1.1 to show that it's actually similar, but it's not worth the argument since I know it's true21:10
MohammadAGhaven't checked PR1.1, but this states it's been there since then <SpeedEvil> ali1234: - claims that since 1.1 - any fullscreen app bypasses the compositor21:10
SpeedEvilActually - I ran it when hildon was booting21:10
SpeedEvilWhen it's warm - it's 16.1s with hildon, 15.8 without21:10
ali1234now let's do a real test21:11
pupnik_an emu?21:12
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SpeedEvilOk - I repeated the test, with an emu (and Rod Hull) - and the results are the same.21:13
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TomaszDfrals, how are you handling contributing translations to fmms?21:15
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TomaszDI can't find your project21:15
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ali1234got to enable extras-*21:17
SpeedEvilhmm -vo fbdev is a bit faster than going through X.21:17
SpeedEvilIt does have issues though.21:17
* SpeedEvil reboots.21:17
fralsnot at all yet, still not figured out how to dit 'right' yet21:17
ali1234yeah like the X display flickering through at 50hz21:17
pupnikwhat is the screen refresh rate really?21:18
mintux1is it possible to access to yahoo rooms in coneresation or anywhere ?21:18
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fralsTomaszD: the strings used so far all are shipped with the device, but ill try to get some system up for the remaining strings (ie error messages)21:18
TomaszDall shipped? nice21:18
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TomaszDfrals, but packaging translation is also needed (debian/control)21:19
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fralsill have a look at how others do it unless you have any idea21:19
fralseither way i have to run now, bbl o/21:19
* MohammadAG wishes for a trout message in MMS21:20
* b-man updates his on-device sdk and gets swamped in packages - didn't upgrade in 3 months lol21:20
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MohammadAGb-man, bootstrap didn't work :)21:20
trumeedouble tapping telephone button on BT headset doesnt redial the sip number. anybody aware of the bug report for this?21:20
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MohammadAGb-man, I also find ssh + scratchbox + scp to transfer builds quite faster :)21:20
trumeeit only dials the last mobile number.21:21
b-manMohammadAG: i'm guessing you tried building lucid? lol21:21
mintux1how to select text from pdf? swipe is enable for pdf reader too?21:21
* frals chucks a whale at MohammadAG21:21
MohammadAGb-man, yeah lol21:21
b-manlucid fails to bootstrap21:21
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trumeei will file a bug if no bug report exists.21:21
b-mantry karmic ;)21:21
* MohammadAG throws a white whale at frals 21:21
MohammadAGb-man, does it matter?21:21
trumeeanybody using BT headset?21:22
b-manvery much so xD21:22
johnxhey b-man :D21:22
LiraNunathat keyboard looks almost like the N900's21:23
b-manMohammadAG: they did some funky things to their arm distro that causes it to fail on the N90021:23
b-manwith lucid21:23
MohammadAGb-man, actually it doesn't chroot lol21:23
b-mani know lol21:23
LiraNunab-man, lucid doesn't run on N900?21:23
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ali1234copying playstation iso...21:23
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SwedeMikestill no pipe-character :P21:24
b-manLiraNuna: it really should - it's built for OMAP3 - but they did something to vfp21:24
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johnxshift+<space> is pretty good for pipe21:24
johnxusually it's available and doesn't conflict21:24
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b-manwhich causes some stuff to crash randomly21:25
b-man(hence the chroot issue)21:25
GAN900LiraNuna, yeah, that was my thought when I saw it.21:25
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SwedeMikeI'd rather have the | etc than $£EUR21:25
b-manit works fine on BeagleBoard and Pandora21:26
johnxare you kidding? how would I type variables in sh without a $?21:26
MohammadAGHTML5 claims I moved
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b-mani think it's because they use OMAP3530, not OMAP3430 - which has some differences with vfp21:27
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SwedeMikejohnx: I don't really do shell scripting on my N900, so I'm fine without it... but £EUR could go away anyway.21:28
trumeecrap it is a WONTFiX,
povbot`Bug 8299: Can't control the VoIP call (skype, sip) from bluetooth accessory (heatdest, etc.)21:28
b-manjohnx: still planning on getting a pandora? :)21:28
johnxI'm happy to type EUR or UKP or whatever21:28
johnxb-man, mine shipped :>21:29
luke-jrb-man: N900 is more than OMAP321:29
DocScrutinizerSwedeMike: ack. but what about just remapping keys?21:29
b-manluke-jr: yeah21:29
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johnxmine shipped before had the news item they were starting to ship :D might have something to do with ordering as soon as I heard the word on IRC and not waiting for the emailed announcement :>21:29
MohammadAGb-man, W: Failure trying to run: chroot /media/mmc1/ubuntu-chroot/. mount -t proc proc /proc21:30
trumeeis it possible to open microb pages in the background?21:30
b-manMohammadAG: karmic?21:30
SwedeMikeDocScrutinizer: sure, it's not a huge problem, I'm just questioning why a nerd phone like this would have EUR£ on the physical keyboard, but not |21:31
* b-man is a bit jelous of johnx21:31
MohammadAGb-man, no, lucid, but I missed your earlier message xD21:31
b-manLOL k21:31
b-manI'll probably get a 2nd batch pandora ;)21:32
johnxb-man, heh. only had to wait a couple years :) I forgot, did you order in the first batch?21:32
b-manjohnx: i was, but then the N900 came xD21:32
ali1234yep, psx4all now runs faster in fullscreen too21:32
ali1234it's still nowhere near full speed though21:33
johnxaaah. the N900 is awesome, but I'm really looking forward to absolutely hacking up my pandora without worrying about missing calls21:33
trumeenot possible?21:33
johnxtrumee, I don't know of a way21:33
johnxbut that doesn't really mean much :)21:34
Stskeepsjohnx: so, meego or mer on the pandora? ;p21:34
johnxdebian and windowmaker21:34
johnx(at least half serious there)21:34
b-manjohnx: the best part about the pandora is about it being 100% open - no legal issues with firmware/drivers :)21:34
ali1234pulse cpu usage is down too21:35
johnxand that it should have a more "normal" init sequence21:35
ali1234only hovering around 10%21:35
Stskeepsb-man: except that's bullshit when it comes to 3d drivers..21:35
johnxand that it's not my phone :)21:35
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b-manjohnx: and that it uses u-boot xDD21:35
b-manStskeeps: very true21:35
ali1234i'm getting 80/10/10 for psx/xorg/pulse21:35
ali1234that's a huge improvement21:36
b-manStskeeps: but i don't thing you can get arount that 100% unless imagination technologys thinks otherwise21:36
johnxheh. even my desktop uses closed source video drives (nvidia)21:36
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b-manlol, damn kb xDD21:38
johnxvideo drives? WTH is that? some kind of holographic storage?21:38
MohammadAG<johnx> heh. even my desktop uses closed source video drives (nvidia)21:40
MohammadAGmy desktop doesn't use drivers xD21:40
MohammadAG(uninstalled nouveau)21:40
* johnx tries to think about how that would work21:40
johnxsooo, you sit there and flip little switches to deliver perfectly timed electrical pulses to the video chip?21:41
johnxI think even in that case it would (de facto) make *you* the driver21:41
b-manat the speed of light? :)21:41
LiraNuna<MohammadAG> my desktop doesn't use drivers xD21:42
LiraNuna^ hardcore21:42
pupnikali1234: looking better here too21:42
MohammadAG<LiraNuna> YAY FRAMEBUFFER <-- indeed21:42
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MohammadAGthe main reason is because the card is f'd21:42
MohammadAGit said something like GPU lockup, switching to FBcon21:42
johnxfill in the blanks: to display pictures on the framebuffer uses the fbdev ______ :)21:42
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ali1234how do i see the current CPU clock frwquency?21:43
b-manwell, even framebuffer console needs a driver (fbcon)21:43
LiraNunaVESA - Because letting the CPU work extra is a good thing21:43
MohammadAGthat isn't for the GPU is it21:43
ali1234im sure this should be running faster than it is when using 80% CPU21:44
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pupnik/proc/cpuinfo indicates it sorrta21:44
pupnik249 bogomips at 250mhz afaik21:45
ali1234i guess thats full speed21:45
MohammadAGwell.. ctrl C doesn't work for CHKDSK21:46
ali1234hmm i see a problem.. the settings gui of psx4all doesn't actually affect anything21:46
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Wizzupsince 1.2 is lost the search ability in the package manager21:50
WizzupI lost*21:50
nidOselect a catalogue21:51
nidOstart typing21:51
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MohammadAGb-man, W: Failure trying to run: chroot /home/mohammad/chroot/. mount -t proc proc /proc21:53
MohammadAG lol21:53
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Xenon|XZshunt it be mount -t proc none /proc ?21:56
luke-jr'none' is lame21:56
ali1234ok, so i confirm that hildon no longer eats CPU when doing fast graphics. it seems faster even in windowed mode/compositing enabled21:56
luke-jrcd /;mount proc{,,}21:57
Xenon|XZnone is lame? - fair enough :(21:57
luke-jrmount -t {,,/}proc21:57
odin_so then, who is voting for what country tonight, in the euro-vision ?   who do you represent ?21:57
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odin_me UK as well21:58
Dassuanobody here using mobilehotspot?21:58
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ali1234it's still not enough to get psx emulator even close to playable though21:58
luke-jrodin_: wtf?21:58
odin_look like the UK is gonna win then !22:00
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Xenon|XZif they win i will eat my own sh*t22:01
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n900-dkDenmark should win :)22:01
crashanddiedon't tell me you're watching eurovision22:03
crashanddieI want to watch the bloody roland garros22:03
* ShadowJK us watching the ota upgrade's progress bar on n900...22:03
crashanddiescratch that, I'm watching that22:04
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* crashanddie love VLC22:04
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# uptime22:05
MohammadAG 22:04:49 up 12:05, load average: 10.36, 7.62, 5.2222:05
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budfiveMohammadAG: whoa!22:06
budfiveMohammadAG: what have you been doing?22:06
MohammadAGdebootstrap's unpacking packages lol22:06
Stskeepsah, silly people22:07
Stskeepsdidn't you learn to do it cross yet? :P22:07
GAN900crashanddie, sucker.22:07
MohammadAGStskeeps, scratchbox is borked by design to be able to chroot :)22:07
crashanddieGAN900: why?22:07
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ShadowJK22:07:13 up 41 days, 22:31, load average: 1.86, 0.70, 0.3022:07
GAN900crashanddie, because22:07
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ShadowJKmy N81022:08
crashanddieGAN900: that's not enough of a reason22:08
GAN900crashanddie, my buddy bought a Panasonic GH122:08
GAN900The HD video looks like film.22:08
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MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/chroot] > chroot ./22:08
MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/chroot] > fakeroot chroot ./22:08
MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/chroot] > sudo chroot ./22:08
MohammadAGsudo: must be setuid root22:08
MohammadAG/scratchbox/tools/bin/chroot.bin: cannot change root directory to ./: Operation not permitted <-- for the first two22:08
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StskeepsMohammadAG: no, not that22:08
MohammadAGStskeeps, then what? :)22:09
StskeepsMohammadAG: ask me between 7.30 and 13.30 polish time monday-friday :P22:09
* Stskeeps goes back to hacking on his joggler22:09
wazdmeh, 960 x 640 3.5" is an absolute overkill22:09
MohammadAGStskeeps, screw you :)22:10
crashanddieGAN900: yeah, GH1 and LX3 are seriously good cameras22:10
StskeepsMohammadAG: run it in a qemu instance22:10
crashanddieGAN900: I have a TC-80N3 remote control now for the 40D22:10
MohammadAGStskeeps, bah, I hate that crap :P22:10
LiraNunawhy do I need both account AND forum account?22:11
Stskeepscos someone has taken ass long time to get SSO working22:11
ali1234you don't *need* a forum account22:12
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LiraNunaali1234, yes I do, it asked me to register and told me my garage username/pass is invalid22:13
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StskeepsMohammadAG: that, or look into how rootstock works22:14
crashanddieLiraNuna: no, he meant you don't need to be on the forum22:14
LiraNunaI just wanted to thank someone22:14
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crashanddiesee, you "want", not "need"22:14
LiraNunaoh, so we're getting *that* picky are we22:15
ali1234i think they should allow anonymous thanks22:15
crashanddieali1234: queue every post with 2000000000+ thanks in 5... 4... 3... 2... 122:15
lcuki think anonymous posting should be acceptable too22:15
johnxcrashanddie, worried about inflation in the thanks-oconomy22:16
lcukbut the moderation and thread viewing tools arent upto sniff22:16
ali1234i wouldn;t go as far as anon posting22:16
lcuksnuff even22:16
MohammadAGlcuk, actually they can be done, but the mods would have to start approving a lot of threads22:16
ali1234but the whole point of thanks button is so people don't have to reply with a one word post22:16
crashanddieLMAO, someone just got on stage at Eurovision, and security took him down22:16
lcukMohammadAG, sure, hence my comment22:17
jaskacrashanddie: considering how bad most of the participants that should happen more often, being taken out by security :)22:17
MohammadAGlcuk, just restating what was said ~ Captain Obvious22:17
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crashanddiejaska: haha22:18
SpeedEvilWhat's omap-previewer?22:18
ShadowJKdid OTA upgrade throw themes on emmc22:19
ShadowJKbecause the sim prompt is themeless and fontless..22:19
ShadowJKpin code22:19
LiraNunasome themes are broken22:20
LiraNunalike Carbon22:20
LiraNunathere's a lot of junk on some parts of it22:20
ShadowJKI had digital nature22:20
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crashanddieok, anyone got eurosport or something22:20
Xenon|XZi have22:21
crashanddiethe local channel just stopped showing the match between henin and some russian chick, Sharapova22:21
ShadowJKeverything is broken :(22:21
crashanddielast I saw, it was 6-2 3-622:21
lcukShadowJK, did you just reflash?22:22
ShadowJKnow it crashed and died22:22
ShadowJKand reset22:23
crashanddiehmm... the ibm website says "play suspended"22:23
lcukthe pin dialog is up whilst you locked during update?22:23
lcukor the update had completed22:23
lcukand had rebooted afterwards22:23
ShadowJKit completed afaik22:23
ShadowJKrebooted, progress bar at reboot, then normal boot22:24
* SpeedEvil likes tennis.22:24
SpeedEvilI don't really pay attention to the scores though.22:24
crashanddieman, that's how bad the coverage is22:25
* ShadowJK sighs.22:25
crashanddieI had to check twitter to find out what happened22:25
crashanddie"Sharapova v Henin tied at 1-set all (1st set Henin 6-2, 2nd set Sharapova 6-3) when play halted due to bad light. #frenchopen"22:25
lcukShadowJK, what happens when it gets to desktop22:26
lcukis the theme totally dead22:26
lcukor cant you even get to desktop22:26
ShadowJKthere's a purple rectangle instead of task switcher22:26
ShadowJKno icons22:26
ShadowJKno fonts22:26
ShadowJKdefault gtk theme22:26
SpeedEvilIIRC a couple of people hitting that22:27
SpeedEvilone last night22:27
ShadowJKit's popping up dialogs and wanting me to answer stuff but I dont know the question22:27
ShadowJKand don't know what the buttons are22:27
ShadowJKif I touch stuff it crashes..22:28
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lcukShadowJK, looks like you will have to reflash :(22:29
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ensihello anyone know whats the deal with MSN on N900? the port is defaulted to 0 after setting to 1863 the login still doesnt happen but the signing in dialog closes immediately.22:34
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crashanddieensi: I don't believe MSN is supported out-of-the-box, so you may want to contact the maintainer for that application you're talking about.22:36
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ensicrashanddie: i have the telepathy plugin installed22:37
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crashanddiejaska: serbia deserved to get their asses kicked in the war considering what they've sent to eurovision22:39
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DaReaperim on my n90022:39
DaReaperusing xchat22:39
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jaskawell, im skipping eurovision till the year 22000 or so, doubt .fi will win for a few millennia after lordi :)22:39
ensin900 is so buggy :/22:40
DaReaperit is ?22:40
DaReaperwhat kind of bugs22:40
GAN900Depends heavily on you usecas22:41
ensiwlan dropping stuff jams up22:41
ensibad usability in a lot of cases22:41
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DaReaperi dont face wlan problems22:41
Stskeepsi have some odd PSM problems atm22:41
ensigood for you22:41
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ensimy n900 drops wlan every so often22:42
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DaReaperif you mess with system files a lot22:42
GAN900ensi, weird router?22:42
lcukensi, its not good you feel that, if these are long term problems for you, have you checked the bug lists (and if capable potentially reproduce/diagnose/even repair) them because we are mostly a community distribution with many components on your machine coming direct from oss22:42
ensiGAN900: no22:43
GAN900lcuk, minus networking. :)22:43
ensilcuk: nokia outsourced the testing to users?22:43
tom_ilsinszkihi all22:43
lcukensi, can any entity test every combination of the entire system?22:44
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ensilcuk: do i care? for something i pay 500€ i expect it to work22:45
lcukbugs happen, but without people doing something about them (minus moaning) the developers dont know theres a problem22:45
crashanddieensi: please be helpful, this is a community channel,and we're not here to take any heat on Nokia's part22:45
lcukso have you been onto nokia care about your issue?22:46
brendansensi, I think it's more a matter of how early features are released; Nokia wanted to make a developer friendly device, and it does/did have a lot of features before other similar devices. The cost is sometimes stability22:46
ShadowJKmy n900 drops wlan about twice a year at this rate :D22:46
johnxensi, did you come here to complain or to get help troubleshooting?22:46
johnx(honest question)22:46
DaReaperis it possible to manage your SIM22:46
* crashanddie waves at johnx 22:47
jaskamine hasnt dropped wlan yet, and seems to work with the old wrt-54gl + tomato ok22:47
jaskaso it stays psm most of the time22:47
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Dima202I tried doing ping and playing a stream using 3g but it still stops playing after a few minutes of idel22:47
johnxallo crashanddie :)22:47
ensiyeah true its not the maemo communitys fault per se that the end product is rubbish22:47
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DocScrutinizer(<lcuk> i think anonymous posting should be acceptable too) And I think deleting post/threads should be enabled for all registered users22:48
johnxensi, by and large we're in the same boat as you. there have been cases of even normal routers interacting poorly with the N900s wifi power savings mode22:48
johnxand there are workarounds/ways to test22:48
johnxand if you can reproduce the test case with a certain router, it's possible Nokia can code around it for the next release22:49
DaReaperis it possible to manage your SIM like we can on the N97 , there is no option on n900 to manage the SIM22:49
SpeedEvilHowever - that's simply due to the fact that some routers are broken with powersave.22:49
lcukDocScrutinizer, ill defend your anonymous right to say what you like.  i will gladly give you a threshhold however because you should not be forced to read them22:49
DocScrutinizerlcuk: at very least get a 'blame' button in addition to the 'thanks'22:49
crashanddieDaReaper: NO22:49
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SpeedEvilMy laptop is broken the same way with one of my routers22:49
crashanddieDaReaper: explain the features you want, we don't know the N9722:49
lcuklook @ slashdot, everyone can comment but the default reading of articles only shows the upvoted items22:49
lcuka user has to change settings to see/read all comments22:50
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ensibtw is the maemo communit going to transition to a lego community now?22:50
b-manone of the very reasons i don't post on anymore is because of the overflow of complaint posts/threads and little effort in improving the whole issue - too many people are relying on noka than doing it their sefl, lol22:50
DaReapercrashanddie : like the ability to get information from you network provider like news , weather etc22:51
lcukensi, :D22:51
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crashanddieDaReaper: as far as I'm aware, no22:51
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DaReaperwill this be available in future releases22:51
lcukDaReaper, does the net provider send this information?22:52
lcukfirst ive heard about it22:52
jaskacould be wap stuff22:52
DaReaperyes it does as an sms22:52
crashanddielcuk: yeah, it's quite popular22:52
lcukwell thats data not just stored on the sim?22:52
GAN900lcuk, no, but Nokia, unfortunately, doesn't manage to provide enough to test a reasonable minimum.22:52
lcukahh right, if its an sms does it come in list?22:52
ShadowJKit's software on the SIM probably22:53
lcukGAN900, ?22:53
GAN900lcuk, PR1.2, like nearly every Maemo update before it, is regression city.22:53
ShadowJKand N900 doesn't run that22:53
DaReaperand also all gprs and access point information is sent by them that way22:53
lcukwell GAN900 give list of regressions, i only know of 1 to date (please give MB#)22:53
lcukShadowJK, ? the sim has a cpu22:54
ShadowJKMy N900 is able to receive configuration data from my operator... but the correct option is to reject it anyway, as my operator's system sends incorrect configs trying to sabotage me :)22:54
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ShadowJKlcuk, there's software stored on it atleast, and I the phone is supposed to execute it inside a virtual machine or something22:55
DaReaperwell i need to receive info from my oper5or22:55
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GAN900lcuk, two of my latest are.22:55
GAN900lcuk, I have others that I haven't gotten around to filing yet.22:55
lcukno good without numbers gan you know that22:55
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johnx"This bug is uselss without #s" is the new "This thread is useless without pics" :) (see also: "bug #s or it's not reproducible")22:56
DaReaperhow will i receive the access point configurations now from my network provider ?22:56
ensii wish i could run another terminal...22:56
ShadowJKdo I have to flash both rootfs and emmc..22:56
crashanddieDaReaper: how do you request the information if it comes through an SMS?22:57
johnxensi, menu -> new terminal22:57
lcukensi, ?on the terminal menu open a new one22:57
GAN900lcuk, have been filed.22:57
GAN900lcuk, and sp3000 has already looked at it.22:57
GAN900lcuk, please don't accuse me of laziness.22:57
ensijohnx: omg heh thanks!22:57
* Stskeeps headdesks22:57
crashanddieensi: also shift + arrow + x22:58
lcukim not GAN90022:58
DaReaperwell there is an option when i was using my n73 to get info from my network provider , they send us sms.s  as a setting to save and restart the phone and then the access points get saved22:58
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lcukGAN900, do you know of any typing speed tests you could run on n900 - i am interested to see how fast you actually burn through messages22:59
lcukyou have girl thumbs :P22:59
GAN900lcuk, 60 wpm or so on the Flash one I tried a few weeks ago.22:59
johnxensi, for the wifi dropping, go into settings -> internet connections -> connections -> <your wifi network> -> Edit -> Next -> Next -> Next -> Advanced -> Other -> Power saving: On (intermediate) || Off -> Save -> Finish22:59
lcukheh cool22:59
GAN900lcuk, pianist's fingers. :)23:00
johnxI'd try Off first IIWU23:00
lcukGAN900, thats a reasonable analogy :)23:00
GAN900lcuk, the rest of them are slightly less consistently reproducible.23:00
bennypr0faneHas anyone encountered this before? I did this: apt-get remove libqt4-phonon to free up rootspace (it was recommended here:, of course I tried all the other things first), but something went wrong there: now my N900 won't boot. It seems to be stuck in a loop, it only gets to the dialog for entering the PIN and then it keeps starting again and again. Hope this can23:00
bennypr0fanesomehow? :-(23:00
DaReapercrashanddie did u read my above meaaage ?23:01
lcuksure, copying prewritten tests isnt the same23:01
GAN900Like the weird SGX/HD bug I encountered after I first flashed where the dashboard got stuck halfway between each transition.23:01
crashanddieDaReaper: I did23:01
lcukperhaps a live WPM meter for your normal x11 input would be cool23:01
DaReaperso did you get an idea of what i was saying ?23:01
johnxbennypr0fane, do you have a linux box to hook the N900 into?23:01
ensii think the reason why msn is not working has something to do with the configuration errors23:01
johnxtry turning off lifequard reset and see if you can get in far enough to reinstall the package23:01
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StskeepsGAN900: do you see any logic in me doing good for n8x0's using meego, and not making sure the posts and forum stuff is done in the right place, ie, in meego?23:02
crashanddieDaReaper: I do, however this is not supported by the N900 as said before. There is no word on whether such features will be supported in the future.23:02
fralsGAN900: i had that too with SGX reseting on each touchscreen click after flash23:02
DaReaperoh okay ty anyways23:02
StskeepsGAN900: instead of being ass backwards and posting it on talk, where it literally disappears23:02
bennypr0fanejohnx no, win xp23:02
johnxbennypr0fane, actually, there's a CLI flasher for WinXP as well now that I think of it23:03
bennypr0fanewhat is a cli flasher?23:03
crashanddieDaReaper: this being said, provided enough user demand for it, this may be a feature pushed forward, or some community member may pick up the task (however, considering it's manipulating the SIM, this may be difficult as that part isn't open source). Please check the brainstorm and bugtracker to find some information regarding it23:03
johnxit's a "CommandLine Interface" version of the firmware updater, but it can change other settings23:03
johnxYou can use it to disable a feature that causes the N900 to automatically reboot if a core program dies23:04
lcukGAN900, frals hmmmf23:04
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: More than that. The SIM is connected to a completely different CPU, running a closed-source signed blob.23:04
bennypr0fanejohnx i already downloaded Maemo flasher 3.523:04
fralsGAN900: not been able to reproduce after rebooting though23:04
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: So if it does not support it, your only option is to convince the devs of that module to supply a patch23:04
johnxright, you should use flasher 3.5 with the no lifeguard reset option23:04
johnxlook through the help for the program23:04
crashanddieSpeedEvil: so highly unlikely23:04
trip0anyone having video playback issues?23:05
fralsbtw, after a 'real' reboot dmesg counterthing resets doesnt it?23:05
bennypr0fanejohnx just not sure how to use it. help contains a few terms i'm not familiar with23:05
crashanddiewhat the hell is happening tonight, is it a n900 support sprint?23:05
Stskeepscrashanddie: eurovision and n900 support sprint in one23:05
fralsbecause after ota update to pr1.2 dmesg counter/timestamp thingy was still way high for a fresh boot23:05
lcukhas been all week crashanddie :)23:05
Stskeepscrashanddie: serbia is obviously a iphone user ;p23:05
crashanddieStskeeps: turkey is a total muse ripoff23:05
lcuklots of people examining parts of the system they dont normally23:05
DaReaperokay crashanddie ill check it over there23:06
fralsrofl Stskeeps23:06
bennypr0fanecrashhanddie is this channel not where to do that?23:06
johnxbennypr0fane, one sec, I'll find you a reference23:06
DaReaperthanks for the support23:06
crashanddieDaReaper: np23:06
jaskai put my nose everywhere on the system, but i used to do embedded linux for a living so its not unexpected23:06
fralsswedish commentators called turkeys band "the turkish linkin park"23:06
Nomamore like turkish system of a down23:06
nikki93I'm considering selling my iPhone 'cuz it ain't fun enough.23:07
nikki93What's the best thing to get?23:07
nikki93'droid or n900?23:07
nikki93(cost doesn't matter)23:07
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johnxnikki93, do you like hacking around in linux?23:07
nikki93johnx: I <3 it.23:07
nikki93johnx: I've heard bad things about n900 touchscreen though. Is it taht bad?23:08
johnxit's different than the capacitive screens23:08
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johnxrequires a bit firmer push23:08
johnxbut it's just about the best resistive screen I've ever used23:08
nikki93How's it with a stylus?23:08
nikki93Good to hear.23:08
bennypr0fanestill not reaaly a push tho23:08
johnxit's also fine with a finger nail23:08
crashanddiebut it allows using your nails, fingers, pens, stylus23:08
bennypr0faneit's still defintiely "touch"23:08
pupniki tap everything with fingernail now and have become very accurate23:09
lcuki believe some people can use it with other body parts too23:09
brendansnot to mention, you can put it in a protective cover (e.g. for using in the rain)23:09
nikki93lcuk: lawl23:09
nikki93brendans: Aha nice idea.23:09
nikki93Hmm, so name some ultrageekykewl stuff to do with N900.23:09
crashanddielcuk: we know your penis is as fine as a stylus, but please, keep the channel PG23:09
johnxbennypr0fane, flasher-3.5 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset23:09
GAN900Stskeeps, sounds reasonable.23:09
brendansyeah, we use it to time jogs23:09
brendansziplock FTW23:09
johnxI think that's your best shot unless someone has a better idea23:09
* GAN900 is at work.23:09
nikki93crashanddie: Dude, he never mentioned it. you brought it up first.23:09
lcukcrashanddie, i meant ears actually23:09
GAN900So excuse the long ping times. ;)23:10
crashanddienikki93: actually, for his sake I hope he didn't bring anything "up"23:10
nikki93Lets say you were stuck in a room for a month.23:10
lcukhas anyone modded a bottle opener onto n900 yet23:10
nikki93With n900 with infinite battery.23:10
nikki93And lotsa food.23:10
nikki93What would you do?23:10
nikki93(wifi is available)23:10
pupniki like to share my 3g connection over the easyHotSpot app23:10
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fluxnikki93, is the battery charged?23:10
crashanddienikki93: google maps and put clues as to where I am23:10
nikki93flux: Yep. :D23:11
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crashanddienikki93: "cold" "cold" "cold" "warmer"23:11
lcukn900 buffy edition should be released - replace the stylus with a wooden stake23:11
johnxnikki93, I've been thinking about tapping into dbus for a whole bunch of stuff, but I keep putting it off23:11
fluxnikki93, well, I'd solve the world energy problems and make buttloads of money while doing it!23:11
fralslcuk: cant you just use the bezel? ;D23:11
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lcukfrals im just trying now with the back cover23:11
brendansnikki93: Probably continue per usual; I do most things on my N900 anyway23:11
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fluxactually, I wonder if it mattered if there was actually such a battery.. because you cannot draw infinite wattage from it without it breaking down23:11
bennypr0fanejohnx could you give me just the command to enter into the flasher? do i leave the N900 power off?23:12
johnxhonestly, most of the hacks you could do on the N900 can be done on a droid, but the N900 has a more comfortable Linux environment, I beleive23:12
lcukflux, is your last name capacitor?23:12
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nikki93Is it possible to get a normal gnome ui running if you wanna23:12
johnxbennypr0fane, I did. and just follow whatever normal instructions you'd use for flashing the N900, except instead of flashing an image do the no-lifeguard-reset thing23:12
johnxsearch up in your scrollback for the exact line23:13
ensiso you guys have any idea about this problem23:13
lcukis it just me or have there been less on device OS ports since the n900?23:13
johnxnikki93, people are playing around chrooting into "normal" linux distros23:13
lcukis it because of the rootfs/emmc layout?23:13
johnxdunno if anyone has put much effort into getting something "normal" booting on the N90023:13
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lcukor just because years of 770/8x0 gained the experience necessary23:13
lcuksmall fragments over time etc23:14
bennypr0fanejohnx thanks. but doesn't the n900 have to be on in order to do it?23:14
lcukie: has anyone managed to get fremantle booting from mmc?23:14
johnxlcuk, well, if the N900 is your phone, it gives you more incentive to actually having it in a state where it can accept calls :)23:14
crashanddiejohnx: calls, from whom?23:14
lcuksure johnx thats potentially something23:14
crashanddiejohnx: you're not seriously saying that GSM thingy you speak of will take off one day?23:15
johnxbennypr0fane, basically, you start the flasher running, turn the N900 off, then hold u and plug it into usb23:15
lcukStskeeps, did you try fremantle on mmc or mer23:15
lcuki know meego does23:15
DaReaperis the N900 safe from viruses ?23:15
Stskeepslcuk: some people did23:15
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brendansnikki93, there's a project in the standard "extras" repository that lets you install a chroot of Debian in the MyDocs space23:15
johnxDaReaper, which viruses?23:15
lcuksome people being?  any blogs posts sources we can track down23:15
lcukfor guidelines23:15
DaReaperwell any kind of malware seen on the internet23:16
johnxDaReaper, two questions there: 1) is it safe from any virus out there now? 2) Is it safe from all future viruses automatically?23:16
lcukDaReaper, it runs linux on a different cpu arch23:16
DaReaperor rootkits23:16
brendansnikki93, i.e. full Debian Linux running in parallel on the same system23:16
johnx1) yes 2) no23:16
lcukuntil viruses start specifically targeting it23:16
crashanddiebabe alert, ukraine chick Stskeeps23:16
DaReaperhmmm ok so there r no viruses yet that can target the phone23:16
MohammadAGZogG, ?23:16
crashanddienot yet, anyhoo23:16
brendansplus, technically it's probably slower on baseutils updates than a desktop distro23:17
DaReaperbut still malwares are poaaible to target23:17
lcukDaReaper, we did have an outbreak of thehonour virus after someone left it on their sig23:17
nikki93n900 has a dedicated gfx chip right23:17
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ZogGMohammadAG where have you got all those games?23:17
brendansso old exploits are probably still live23:17
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lcuktook us months to clear it off23:17
ZogGMohammadAG, btw can you share with me paradise city?23:17
crashanddiebrendans: baseutils?23:17
crashanddiebrendans: or do you mean busybox?23:17
DaReaperoh was the virus fixed23:17
lcukno it lies dormant23:17
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lcukill find a link, make sure your virus checker is enabled23:18
brendanscrashanddie: well, I said baseutils, but I suppose I just mean the common GNU/Linux components... I misspoke23:18
lcukit can pass via irc23:18
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lcukPlease delete all the files on your hard disk,23:18
lcukthen forward this message to everyone you know.23:18
lcukThank you for your cooperation.23:18
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pupniksend to iPad owner23:18
midas_ZogG: gnr version, slash vs fergie or axl rose version? :)23:19
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brendanscrashanddie: Still, things like X are going to tend to lag behind the desktop versions, since it takes so long to push things through to the tablets23:19
ZogGmidas_ say what23:19
bennypr0faneok, I got the n900 plugged into the usb powered off, Flasher runnning. Now i'll enter this command into the flasher: --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset          Is that it?23:19
midas_paradise city ;)23:19
brendanscrashanddie: and other misc system services, etc.23:19
ZogGmidas_ burnout?23:19
johnxbennypr0fane, looks good23:19
midas_old song?23:20
johnxbennypr0fane, sorry, usb *unplugged* n900 off, run flasher, plug n900 in23:20
johnxflasher will wait for the N90023:20
midas_you know, axl rose, guns n roses?23:20
GAN900Stskeeps, only problem is that you're going to start pulling THAT crowd to :P23:20
crashanddiebrendans: I'm pretty sure that critical fixes can be backported and pushed through quickly.23:20
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DaReaperhas nokia worked to design an anti virus ? just incase23:22
brendanscrashanddie: fair enough, I guess I'm just thinking in general terms as a response to the vulnerability question23:22
johnxDaReaper, nope23:22
bennypr0faneis the flasher supposed to react when i plug in? it's not doing anything23:23
DaReaperwell they better do23:23
johnxDaReaper, Are you going to create a virus?23:23
Dima202Hey fellas, I'm trying to stream some music via mplayer I get AO OSS audio_setup: Can't open audio device /dev/dsp: No such file of directory23:23
DaReaperlol no23:23
crashanddieDaReaper: why would Nokia do such a thing?23:23
johnxDaReaper, so, how do you think an anti-virus program works typically?23:23
DaReaperi am worried of internet malwares23:23
pupnikno oss Dima20223:24
b-man|n900DaReaper: don't worrie - maemo isn't that popular yet ;P23:24
Dima202And I keep getting Write ERROR: Broken Pipe23:24
crashanddieDaReaper: there are anti viral solutions for Linux, it would just be a matter of porting it23:24
DaReaperoh okay23:24
johnxDima202, try with pulse output?23:24
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johnxcrashanddie, and all those do right now is scan for files infected with windows viruses :)23:24
brendansDaReaper: As it stands though, it's not even the same architecture as most desktops; it'd have to be a virus written for phones or wireless routers, etc.23:24
johnx(though a large number of linux routers are MIPS, not ARM)23:25
DaReaperhmmm okay so maemo is still untouched23:25
bennypr0faneflasher says the command wasn't found23:25
DaReaperfor now23:25
b-man|n900and there has been few viruses for linux in general thus far23:25
brendansThat doesn't mean it couldn't be done, but virus writers these days are typically worried about making money, and it's not a very big market23:26
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johnxbennypr0fane, pastebin an exact copy of what you typed and the output23:26
brendansNot like the bad old days of the '90s when people would open an attachment and have their motherboard voltage adjusted23:26
b-man|n900but that may change in the future if linux gets as mainstream as linux23:26
* b-man|n900 needs coffee23:26
* johnx hands b-man some (coldish) coffee23:27
pupnikwith creamed trout on top23:27
bennypr0fanehow do i pastebin?23:27
Dima202I see that mplayer is generally slow for most stuff on n900 :( default media player does a better job23:27 (or
johnxthen drop the link here23:27
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bennypr0fanebennypr0fane never uses commandlines...23:27
Dima202is it just me?23:28
johnxDima202, mplayer could be better optimized for ARM23:28
johnxthe default Nokia player is23:28
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bennypr0fanesorry, i have no idea how to use this.23:29
bennypr0fanei typed exactly the command you gave, double-checked it23:30
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johnxsince you're on windows, make sure you have a .exe on the end of flasher23:30
johnxit might need to say flasher-3.5.exe --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset23:31
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* GAN900 needs to remember to remember to do mwkn tomorrow.23:32
* Stskeeps needs to remember to ban from his weekends23:32
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pupnikall these mysterious quiet .fi chatters...23:33
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johnxhallo spectre-23:34
spectre-<in rwanda23:34
spectre-xchattin on mah n90023:34
brendansbeagleboard channel is like a ghost town...23:35
jaskapupnik: sshhh!23:35
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bennypr0fanejonhx it's not working23:36
pupnikspectre, that is an unusual location.  working for cellphone co?23:37
johnxbennypr0fane, I can't tell what's happening unless you give me more of a clue than that...23:37
midas_so. anyone got videocalling working with skype?23:37
johnxmidas_, yeah. works good here23:38
midas_i cant get it to work :P23:38
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midas_ill just reflash it with the emmc23:41
midas_so it's completely clean23:41
johnxI did that and the person I was testing with (rm_you) had done the OTA upgrade23:42
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midas_i couldnt update ota23:42
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LiraNunaanyone else gets reversed application list on application manager?23:42
midas_too many unsupported software :p23:42
LiraNunawhen I show 'all', the list starts with a z23:43
midas_you might want to change the sorting23:43
LiraNunaI can't23:43
LiraNunathere's no such option anymore23:43
bennypr0fanei also tried with .exe, same result23:44
johnxbennypr0fane, ah. thank you. that makes more sense.23:44
spectre-internet here is worse than uganda23:44
pupnikLiraNuna: i use catorise and have no probs with sort23:44
LiraNunaapplication manager23:44
johnxbennypr0fane, type exactly this:23:44
johnxflasher-3.5.exe --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset23:44
LiraNunai.e add/remoe23:44
pupnikcongrats on your connection spectre-23:45
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lcukLiraNuna, o_O23:45
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LiraNunawhen I go to Download -> All23:46
LiraNunaI get the list from Z to A23:46
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bennypr0fanejohnx see any typos?23:47
bennypr0fanestill nothing...23:48
johnxneed a space23:48
bennypr0faneargh, overlooked that23:49
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bennypr0faneit says "suitable usb device not found, waiting"23:51
johnxnow plug in the usb23:51
johnxwhile holding u23:51
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thunderfestbennypr0fane  good now make sure the device is powered off then hold u and plug in the usb23:52
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bennypr0fanedone. windows says errror while installing new hardware23:53
MohammadAG64 bit?23:53
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bennypr0faneno, 3223:53
Macera tabbed term would be nice23:54
ShadowJKthere's enough wasted vertical space already :)23:55
johnxtabs on the right (or left)23:56
ShadowJKor in the menu23:57
johnxactually, would be cool to switch tabs by moving your finger in from the left or right23:57
bennypr0faneI'm stumped. now what?23:57
johnxme too. I don't know how to use windows :/23:58
thunderfestI agree gesture based terminal tabbing would be an improvement23:58
thunderfestbennypr0fane: yeah I'm a linux user as well23:58
brendansLiraNuna, I'm looking at some of the hildon-application-manager options, and there's a program called hildon-application-manager-config that allows you to dump the configuration information to terminal23:58
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johnxmmmm...or just make the "swipe in from the left send a ctrl-a ctrl-space23:58
brendansLiraNuna, might be worth taking a look... there are some sort options in the XML that I haven't had a good look at yet23:59
LiraNunait gives an XML23:59
ZogGso is nokia sdk qt is only for c++ devs or i can use pyqt?23:59
thunderfestbennypr0fane: you could download and burn a linux live cd and then use it to flash...I23:59
LiraNunanothing related to sorting, brendans23:59

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