IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-05-19

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tuliobaarsfuser what?00:00
tuliobaarsfuser -k ?00:00
adeusthat dev00:00
tuliobaarsdoesn't worked00:00
adeushow about lsof|grep mmc200:01
tuliobaarspls, say it again, i'm a noob in xterm!00:01
tuliobaarsi'm su00:01
adeuslsof|grep mmc200:02
luke-jrDantonic: -norepeat00:02
tuliobaarscannot umount: device or resource busy! Again!00:03
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tuliobaarsagain the same problem00:04
adeuswell that command fixes nothing00:05
adeusshows what app is using files on the card00:06
adeusif any00:06
adeusmight need the dev name instead of mmc200:06
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Dantonictried -norepeat... still does it00:07
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tuliobaarsis it tome?00:08
Dantonicluke-jr, I just entered -norepeat in the line when I started the server00:08
bobbydvery recently I've been seeing very high CPU usage in modest on my n900 that is causing the phone to lock up. It's also been getting into a state where it won't turn the screen on00:08
tuliobaarsMohammadAG! do you remenber me?00:08
bobbydhas anyone seen anything like this, or have any advice? I've been googling, but haven't found anything useful00:08
tuliobaarscannot umount again!00:09
MohammadAGmy memory is a but rusty at times00:09
MohammadAG14 yo?00:09
tuliobaarsi cannot umount my sd yet! do u belive it?00:11
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MohammadAGi'll try not to00:11
MohammadAGumount -l /dev/mmcblk0p100:11
MohammadAGif i got that node right00:11
tybollt_MohammadAG: is your but rusty?00:12
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tuliobaarsoh man, yoo made my day, dude!!!00:12
tuliobaarsthanks, mohammad!00:12
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MohammadAGnp (*wonders what the force damaged*)00:13
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MohammadAGtybollt_, my what, lol00:13
tybollt_your buttocks00:13
BCMMbobbyd: is it completely locked up? can you open a terminal?00:13
MohammadAGno, it's new and closed source :P00:13
tuliobaarsdo you want to write this to disk? [ynq]00:14
tuliobaarsI try "y" ??? what's ynq ???00:15
bobbydBCMM: I can open a terminal, when i run top I see modest at the top of the list. If I kill it, it's fine again. I tried to run modest from the command line to see if there was any debug output, but  there doesn't seem to be00:16
BCMMbobbyd: i don't know exactly what modest does00:17
BCMMbut that is useful information00:17
BCMMis there anything that seems to trigger the problem?00:17
bobbydmodest is the email clinet00:17
BCMMah yeah, i remember00:17
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MohammadAGthe proximity sensor is always on right?00:19
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tripzeroon the n900, sure00:22
tripzerounless you are holding the phone upside down00:22
tripzeroor in portrait mode00:23
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MohammadAGwhy isn't hermes working...00:26
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MohammadAGstops @ contact 4500:26
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tripzerosays we'll get Greg Monroe00:31
tripzero2.2% chance00:31
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tuliobaarsalguem fala portugues?00:36
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crashanddietuliobaars: only english in here00:46
tuliobaarsok, sorry00:46
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tuliobaarshow can i delete a file on xterm?00:48
* Arkenoi returned from shooting range, great, it is the first time i had *enough* shells00:48
tuliobaarsand see the free left space in it?00:48
johnsqdepends how good the command line support is. df -h for free space00:51
johnsqrm my_file00:51
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:56
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ManoftheSeaArkenoi: you were shooting shotgun?00:59
ManoftheSeathen you weren't shooting shells01:00
Arkenoitechnically they are called that too? english is not my native language, but my impression was that.01:01
ManoftheSealike calling a magazine a "clip" is also recognized, but wrong.01:02
Arkenoior it is misnaming widespreed enough01:02
GAN900Arkenoi, shells are only for shotguns01:02
GAN900Well, in the unexpended sense.01:02
ManoftheSeaI didn't know english wasn't your primary.  I'll put the grammar nazi back in the box.01:03
BCMMperhaps he was clay pidgeon shooting01:03
BCMMbut with clams01:03
ArkenoiOk, thanks for clarification anyways01:03
Arkenoibut shooting was fun01:04
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ManoftheSeaDoes yours do auto?01:05
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ManoftheSeathree round burst or full-auto?01:05
MohammadAGFull auto ftw01:05
Arkenoifull auto01:05
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ManoftheSeaawesome.  Then I can see how you'd run out.01:06
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mikki-kunis anybody using gftp here?01:09
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mikki-kunthe scrooling is horrible on that one >.<01:11
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MohammadAGmikki-kun, actually it's broken01:14
MohammadAGit doesn't scroll up01:14
mikki-kunohhh, neither does it scrool down01:14
mikki-kunso i can kick gftp from my sys?01:14
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MohammadAGapt-get autoremove gftp-common01:15
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mikki-kundoes that solve my problem with the scrooling or does it completely kill gftp? :D01:15
MohammadAGit removes it :P01:16
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MohammadAGI so want to port nautilus01:16
MohammadAGgonna start on it tom01:16
MohammadAGor tonight01:16
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javispedrohah, drnoksnes builds on google's native client =)01:17
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mikki-kunnautilus? hm, what about gftp? =p01:21
MohammadAGScrew it?01:22
MohammadAGnautilus has better support imo01:22
MohammadAGSSH, SFTP, FTP etc...01:22
MohammadAGand it's a file browser01:22
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mikki-kunhm... if it has better support then i have nothing against it ;)01:23
MohammadAGmake it start as root by default, and you just killed a couple N900s01:23
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fralsPackage has been promoted. \o/01:23
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* MohammadAG reports a bug in the package and demotes frals' app01:24
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mikki-kuni think i'll remake my n900 again...01:25
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Go for it!01:27
SpeedEvil(the nautilus - not the frals-bashing.01:27
MohammadAGI want to do both01:27
MohammadAGfrals, it's only another 10 days, no hard feelings eh?01:28
javispedroit's deadly slow on a 333Mhz01:28
SpeedEvilBut we have 600MHz!01:29
MohammadAGoverclock it to 80001:30
* MohammadAG hides01:30
javispedroon a X86 333Mhz01:30
javispedrorefreshing a view takes 2-3 seconds01:30
* SpeedEvil ponders.01:30
MohammadAGjavispedro, well you said man-db wouldn't work :P01:31
SpeedEvilThere are lots of functional file managers out there.01:31
SpeedEvilThey aren't generally pretty though.01:31
javispedrolike Thunar01:31
javispedroMohammadAG: and didn't you had to move mandir?01:31
MohammadAGKonqueror :P01:31
MohammadAGjavispedro, I did, but you killed off the whole idea :)01:31
javispedrobecause now it's useless01:32
javispedroas either you repack every other package's man page01:32
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MohammadAGor I provide a huge man pages package01:32
javispedroI was actually expecting you to kill docpurge =)01:32
MohammadAGwhich I did :)01:32
javispedroman-db is not huge01:32
MohammadAGthe pages are 14MBs01:33
javispedrodocpurge is just a dpkg trigger, should be easy enough to kill01:33
MohammadAGBasic ones01:33
MohammadAGbut / will still be a pita01:33
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javispedrounless you plan to fill it with < 10 KiB manpages, auto optifier will do its job01:33
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MohammadAG# Real hackers don't read docs.01:35
MohammadAGthat's kind of stupid01:35
MohammadAGI can edit the /usr/sbin/docpurge script01:35
b-man17correction: # Real BAD hackers don't read docs.01:35
MohammadAGand just disable purging01:35
MohammadAG# Copyright (C) 2006 Nokia Corporation.01:36
* javispedro throws some code over the wall01:36
MohammadAGsays a lot ^01:36
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MohammadAGmikki-kun, Nautilus supports browsing local filesystems as well as filesystems available through the GVFS system, including FTP sites, Windows SMB shares, OBEX protocol often implemented on cellphones, Files transferred over shell protocol, HTTP and WebDAV servers and SFTP servers.01:39
javispedrothis reminds that previous hildon-fm had core for gnome vfs mount points01:40
javispedroyou could browse samba shares with it01:41
javispedro(and obexftp)01:41
mikki-kunMohammadAG: what about SSH?01:42
javispedroyou mean SFTP01:42
mikki-kunuhm... i have no FTP-server running, but i was able to connect via SSH2 from gftp and browse my filedirectory that way... at least as far as i could see the goddamn list01:43
javispedroyou're thinking FTP or FTPS01:44
javispedroSFTP is an entirely different protocol01:44
javispedro(which uses ssh as transport901:44
mikki-kunahhh, ok... thanks01:44
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javispedromikki-kun: so in a sense, you do have a "sftp" server running, check for sftp-server binary (will not be running right now as sshd spawns it as needed)01:45
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SpeedEvilI think it's rolled into sshd IIRC01:45
javispedromight be in dropbear01:45
javispedrobut not for opensshd01:45
javispedro(at least not for the last version I built for my N900 :P)01:45
MohammadAGsftp works on the N90001:46
MohammadAGfrom another pc that is01:46
SpeedEvilSo it is01:46
mikki-kunwell, learnd something new... again ^^01:46
SpeedEvil(sftp binary)01:46
javispedroah, sorry, though you were referring to the INSIDE the sshd binary01:46
SpeedEvilI was01:46
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javispedrothen not, it's not inside sshd binary, but a separate sftp-server binary01:47
javispedroshould be in $libexec01:47
SpeedEvilI seem to have no sftp-server - there is a sftp01:48
javispedrono, that's the client01:48
* javispedro grabs n90001:48
SpeedEvilIs sftp and scp different?01:48
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SpeedEvilAh - indeed01:49
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pexiwhy can't I listen tcp or udp sockets with PyQt4 QtNetwork bindings? I can connect to another device using tcp or broadcast udp. doesn't really show any error though01:55
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pexiI'm running python as a root01:55
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pexiand ofc I can connect to n900 through ssh01:56
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peximy laptop captures udp broadcast but n900 doesn't (same code/interface/network)01:58
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ZogGpexi loser =P02:02
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pexithanks for the tip! :)02:04
pexibut it really doesn't help :)02:05
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PhonicUKhey all, whats new?02:18
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PhonicUKis it me or is the kernel package being updated almost every other day?02:20
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ohwhymeit is being updated almost every day02:21
PhonicUKwhy so often?02:23
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MohammadAGask t-tan02:24
MohammadAGwhen he comes online02:25
MohammadAGbattery low grrr02:25
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DocScrutinizersftp://user@   is even a bookmark in my Konqueror02:25
MohammadAGsame on nautilus02:26
MohammadAGbut it's a bookmark to /02:26
PhonicUKyour internal IP is the same as mine DocScrutinizer xD02:26
PhonicUKfor my N90002:26
DocScrutinizeraka Atcor 20002:27
DocScrutinizerZyxel P660 modem-router02:27
PhonicUKBT home hub v202:28
DocScrutinizerSold by the million by Arcor as Wlan-Modem20002:28
PhonicUKjust coincidence that our n900s are both 1.3102:28
DocScrutinizerjust coincides our DHCP on router is similarly configured02:29
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PhonicUKi usually reference mine by hostname though02:30
DocScrutinizerNot yet bothered to care02:30
DocScrutinizershould... eventually02:30
PhonicUKwhy sftp instead of scp?02:30
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: whoah, big thx with the browser-thing ö.ö didn't know it could be that "cool" :D02:30
mikki-kunsftp gives way more than scp02:31
DocScrutinizermy browser doesn't know how to display directory content via SCP02:31
mikki-kunscp can just copy files02:31
mikki-kunsftp offers more features as also "browsing" the tree and also deleting files on the server you sftp to and the likes02:31
PhonicUKwinscp lets me do that02:32
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PhonicUKspose it uses plain ssh for most of it though02:32
mikki-kunwinscp is also as it says a "free sftp and ftp client for windows"02:32
mikki-kunat least that is what says about itself (first hit via google for winscp)02:33
PhonicUKi like winscp a lot02:33
tripzerowinscp is okay02:34
DocScrutinizerthe first 3 letters cause nausea here02:34
PhonicUKits how i usually get files to/from my device02:34
tripzerounixscp is better02:34
mikki-kunLOL :D02:34
PhonicUKand puTTy to ssh into it02:34
* DocScrutinizer suggests to rename to losescp02:35
tripzerosshfs ftw02:35
PhonicUKi like to game so windows it is xD02:36
PhonicUKlinux for everything else02:36
tripzeroi like to game so ps3 it is.  linux for everything else ;)02:36
mikki-kuntripzero: sshfs is only something clientside, right? so my n900 doesn't need any software for sshfs02:36
mikki-kunwhen i want to "mount" some of the n900's dirs to my netbook02:37
tripzeromikki-kun, if you are running sshfs to mount your n900, all your n900 needs is ssh02:37
PhonicUKi have a ps3 too, but i prefer gaming on my rig02:37
mikki-kunssh is a must-have on my n90002:37
PhonicUKnvidia 3d vision == awesome02:37
mikki-kungoddamit, that device changed the way i think about networking and how cool SSH can be02:37
mikki-kunwithout the n900 i wouldn't know what SSH even does Ö.ö02:38
MohammadAGPhonicUK, psn id? :)02:38
PhonicUKn900 is the god of smartphones02:38
PhonicUKmohammed, guess :p02:38
mikki-kunPhonicUK: i'd say MIDs with phone-function02:38
PhonicUKi concur02:38
MohammadAGPhonicUK, hmm, chris? :P02:39
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PhonicUKits the same as my nick02:39
MohammadAG(no idea why i chose that :P)02:39
MohammadAGI know xD02:39
PhonicUKsame for Steam02:39
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MohammadAGPhonicUK, I just came up with the chris part, no idea why :P02:42
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PhonicUKlol my name is Mike :)02:42
MohammadAGreal name is john here02:43
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MohammadAGjk, Night all02:44
MohammadAGnautlius is a pain to port02:44
MohammadAGwill try again tom.02:44
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Jzarectahi anyone know how to make sure that my album covers show on the N900 player?02:46
JzarectaI havent been able to find out how come some albums show them and some don't02:46
Jzarectais it pathed on the m3u, svf or nfo?02:46
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* mikki-kun goes now as well... good night02:52
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javispedroJzarecta: not on m3u, svf, or nfo02:54
Jzarectajavispedro: where is it then, how can I fix this02:54
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javispedroalbumart can be inside id3tag, cover.jpg or folder.jpg02:54
Jzarectajavispedro: so if I just rename any jpg file to cover it will automatically work?02:55
javispedroyou might need to run tracker-processes -r02:55
javispedrothere's a few threads on about this02:56
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Jzarectajavispedro: I did that and shows now "no songs"02:57
javispedroyou should have read more before doing it02:58
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: highest time for my 101-post to hostmode thread02:58
javispedroat least the part on restarting media player and letting it run for a while..02:58
javispedroDocScrutinizer: which I'm not sure about02:58
DocScrutinizerwhy? :-)02:58
javispedroof course getting basic host mode would be desirable02:58
javispedrobut the N8x0 driver (and all the working host/peripheral switchable drivers I know) as is is uses that entire piece of otg state machine02:59
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DocScrutinizertricking OTG into a semi-working hostmode, by cable jockeying and kernel patches for sure isn't leading anywhere02:59
DocScrutinizersure we need otg_host()03:00
odin_has anyone been able to get higher read performance from OneNAND than from EMMC, supposedly OneNAND can do over 108Mb/sec (according to blog entry, citing Samsung OneNAND specs)03:00
DocScrutinizerbut we don't want to trick the statemachine03:00
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DocScrutinizerthat's insane03:00
javispedronot using stupid tricks03:00
javispedrobut we DO want to trick it03:00
javispedro -- the official way :)03:01
DocScrutinizerno, we want 'echo host >mode" to work03:01
DocScrutinizerthat's not 'tricking'03:01
javispedrowell :)03:02
DocScrutinizerof course the switch-to-plain-vanilla-hostmode method uses functions from OTG, as you don't need two separate functions to configure pulldowns onPHY03:02
odin_also is "maemo-version=5.0update5+0m5" the PR1.2 SDK preview ?  maybe you can "dpkg -l | grep maemo" if you have PR1.2 SDK installed from sbox03:02
DocScrutinizerand of course the whole host protocol is similar in plain vanilla and in OTG03:03
javispedroyes, I think I misunderstood your intentions :)03:03
DocScrutinizerbut to care about musb->xceiv->state = OTG_STATE_A_WAIT_VRISE;  is nuts, as that's clearly OTG only statemachine crap we shouldn't bother about at all03:04
javispedroand also a state machine that _works.03:04
javispedroas proved by n8x003:04
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javispedroah, someone on tmo is already rebuffing the evidence03:05
DocScrutinizererr, what? please rephrase03:06
javispedro(switching topics) that some poster on tmo is conveniently ignoring the evidence he doesn't like to formulate his theories03:07
DocScrutinizerohh, sorry03:07
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crashanddiejavispedro: link?03:24 > Talk > Software > Design > REQUEST: Maroon 5 wallpapers03:24
ZogGare people really that stupid?03:24
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: hope the edit is clear enough now (hostmode)03:37
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: thanks!03:38
SpeedEvilZogG: Few bands are suitable.03:38
odin_btfs for root!03:38
SpeedEvilZogG: I suggest Polyphonic Spree wallpapers.03:38
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: thank you for pointing me at it03:38
javispedroodin_: hey, meego uses btrfs doesn'it ? our local slashdot clone fell for that ;P03:39
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odin_Im still not able to get this supa-dupa read performance from OneNAND, does anyone have a test sequence I can perform to observe this so called faster performance03:39
ZogGSpeedEvil it's not me who was asking lol.03:39
SpeedEvilZogG: yes, I gathered.03:40
SpeedEvilZogG: I was contemplating bands with lineups that wide.03:40
odin_Im not sure what meego uses, but I can see the concept of copy-on-write being useful to move rootfs to eMMC but have the OneNAND as a kind of swap-cache / cache and rootfs journal03:40
ZogGi would recomend him some Emo music i think03:40
odin_I am using tests like "dd if=/dev/mtd5 of=/dev/null" and getting 11.3 MB/s from OneNAND, I get mtd5 from "cat /proc/mtd"03:41
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SpeedEvilodin_: I got 30 meg total ish from onenand and mmc together03:43
odin_I can understand the OneNAND properties of higher write/erase cycles, but right now I am getting comparable performance with both read and write between OneNAND and eMMC03:43
SpeedEvilI got about 13M/s from both03:43
SpeedEvilodin_: It may be small block write performance.03:43
odin_yes sure I can agree multi-pathing (accessing both at same time) can achieve 30MB/sec03:43
odin_ah ok, let me try bigger block sizes03:43
SpeedEvilno - write03:44
SpeedEviltry random writing 2k blocks say03:44
javispedroI wouldn't ignore the filesystem layet03:44
SpeedEvilyes - filesystem layer will screw you up in this case03:44
odin_why wouldn't you?  I want the fastest possible performance I can get out of it, to observe the properties of each03:44
SpeedEvilno, you don't.03:45
javispedrospecially for writing03:45
SpeedEvilYou want to work out the fundamental limits on the read/write speed.03:45
odin_I just want to prove the documentation, and do some tests that show up the different performance characterstics03:45
SpeedEvilthis is really hard with the fs in the way on ubifs03:45
odin_yes for all cases, so happy to setup 100 tests of there are 100 cases03:45
SpeedEviland the controller in the way on emmc03:45
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odin_how can I access the eMMC without controller ?03:46
odin_I'm not after some "lab theoretical" I am after some software/hardware implementation theoretical (i.e. the N900 with best drivers)03:46
AEnima1577gthopiekar, I was able to get that stream to work on my slackware desktop using an mplayer plugin to firefox03:46
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SpeedEvilThis is really easy for the bare onenand. You can easily instrument the kernel, and observe the erase times.03:47
SpeedEvilodin_: you fundamentally can't.03:47
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SpeedEvilodin_: You have to work out test cases that extract the measurements despite it.03:47
odin_maybe I should reboot it, its uptime is 31days03:47
SpeedEvilodin_: Try for giggles small random block write on the emmc. It's not pretty03:48
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odin_yes Im sure on that, which is why rootfs can be on eMMC but the OneNAND hold its journal file, the writes from the journal to eMMC can be done in background, also optimized so the OneNAND takes the re-write hit on a single sector across the journal but only one write occurs by the time the journal is commited03:50
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odin_there is no reason the rootfs (on eMMC) needs to have its journal replayed as often as a desktop machine, unless there is memory pressure, so an N900 sitting idle for a day might only commit journal a few times a day03:51
Termanagood morning03:51
javispedrohey, not for the average user though =)03:52
SpeedEvilodin_: My n900 will occasionally shut off when dropped03:52
odin_ok I am getting 18Mb/sec reliable with bs=2k just over 19Mb/sec (seq-read) with bigger03:53
odin_yes that is find since the joornal is committed to immediately03:53
SpeedEvils/dropped/slightly banged as it might in a pocket/03:53
infobotSpeedEvil meant: odin_: My n900 will occasionally shut off when slightly banged as it might in a pocket03:53
odin_your data is safe on OneNAND when it reboots the mounting will replay it to eMMC03:53
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SpeedEvilah - misread.03:53
SpeedEvilYou really need to do linear swap for the full benefit.03:54
SpeedEvilWhich I don't think anyones written yet.03:54
odin_I also see OneNAND being able to read-cache data from rootfs and can act as 1st level swap space03:54
odin_what do you mean by linear swap?03:54
SpeedEvilWhy read cache?03:54
odin_well that is the claim, bootup speeds and such, the reason rootfs is on OneNAND is performance (which includes read speed)03:55
SpeedEvilKernel decides it wants to swap out a block. Linear swap means it always goes in the next contiguous block.03:55
odin_so glibc and X11 server and stuff can also read-cache the rotofs03:55
odin_s/rotofs/rootfs/ pages, but it will be like zero maintenance, i.e. when you modify the data it will resync itself03:55
javispedroah, again the onenand discussion....03:55
javispedrobtw, pr1.2 moves half of the applications to the emmc03:56
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SpeedEvilThe left or the right?03:56
odin_well thats good but I want the 2Gb root please03:56
javispedroso in a sense it's already using the onenand for system libs only.03:56
* SpeedEvil goes to sleep.03:57
SpeedEvilNight all.03:57
odin_well Im thinking more along the lines of some kind of kernel OneNAND storage manage, which still uses UBIFS for partition management but might disable compression and such03:57
odin_so all the page write counters are compatible 100%, its just put to a different kind of use03:57
odin_then you tweak in kernel the bias between usage, rootfs journal, swap space, rootfs cache to remaining area, you then have a tool to preload specific blocks from rootfs (for such things as "rootfs cache")03:59
odin_boot the kernel up in some audit mode and audit which pages in which libs really do get faulted a lot to tune04:00
odin_yes it does seem to top out at just over 19Mb/s the OneNAND at 4Kb block sizes04:01
SpeedEvilAlso - mergemem.04:02
SpeedEvilOr maybe even ksm04:02
SpeedEvilAlso - kill the fuckers at the patent office with a blunt spoon.04:02
SpeedEvil(WRT vmware getting a patent on that code - which was out the best part of a decade before)04:03
* SpeedEvil really goes to sleep now.04:03
odin_thanks for the link, looking...  anything but a bloody 200Mb rootfs!  no way I'm going to optify user-space when thats really the wrong way to deal with it04:03
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pigeonis it true that on the n900 openvpn only works over wlan, but not 3g?04:26
SpeedEvilyou cannot usually make inbound connections to a phone.04:26
odin_I can't see way that is, isn't OpenVPN based on regular UDP/TCP for encaps ?04:27
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odin_s/way/why/  but I presume the phone wants to be the road-warrior end, connecting to a static IP hub04:27
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kduboiswhat is the name of the hildon widget that causes a panel to slide up from the bottom? (like in the settings)04:30
luke-jrSpeedEvil: what??04:30
luke-jrSpeedEvil: they ripoff that much and then they filter it?04:30
odin_if they could have "their way" you would have "their internet" in "their walled garden" ha ha04:31
* odin_ bludgeons network operators (with a blunt spoon)04:31
odin_oh my E72 can't be updated because is subsidised, as well, last time I make that mistake now04:32
luke-jrodin_: that's what it is04:33
crashanddieodin_: erhm, because most phones are nat'd to hell?04:34
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odin_I don't think mine if with UK Vodafone, but then maybe I should whip up a STUN client application (to test what I really do get)
Robot101you can make openvpn go over tcp04:37
odin_you might be correct on connections coming back, but I think all outgoing connections UDP/TCP are at least stateful inspection04:37
luke-jrcrashanddie: really??04:37
crashanddieodin_: really depends how the operator implements it04:37
luke-jrgosh, I'm glad 4G requires IPv604:37
odin_crashanddie, yes hence why whipping up a STUN test client tool might actually be useful for Maemo :)04:38
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Robot101odin_: telepathy has at least two STUN implementations in it04:38
Robot101odin_: just fire up a SIP connection and watch the debug log04:38
crashanddieI've seen implementations (MTS, Ukraine), where the clients don't actually ever talk to the remote host (some weird DNS foo + https cheating)04:39
Robot101and if that's not enough, you could also place a call on XMPP and watch the debug log there :D04:39
Robot101there are sites like too04:39
crashanddiethey say it allows for "greater cache speed", I wouldn't be surprised if it also allowed for deep packed inspection, nice logging and MITM04:39
odin_just yes there is a network protocol (over UDP/TCP) for performing NAT tests to see what type for connectivity you get from where you are04:40
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: you really want your phone exposed to the wider internet - so that a portscan will keep your connection awake?04:40
SpeedEviland kill battery life?04:40
crashanddieSpeedEvil: I'd hope not, I don't understand why people want their phones directly exposed to the web04:40
* GAN900 is so tired of British people in US advertising.04:40
crashanddieGAN900: trust me, we're tired of 'em in british ads too04:41
luke-jrSpeedEvil: I really want a proper firewall ISP side that I can control :p04:41
crashanddieGAN900: heck, even the aussies are tired of brits in their ads04:41
GAN900Aussies, too.04:41
odin_less than 2 years on IPv4 about time on v6, might help deal with spam too04:41
GAN900Stupid Outback commercials.04:41
luke-jrSpeedEvil: NAT is not a firewall, and firewall is not NAT04:41
GAN900They make the poor Aussie pitcher on the Rays do Aussie slang quizes for Outback promotions.04:42
crashanddieluke-jr: no, but with NAT's not tunneling anything back to anyone it really comes down to a single IP only spawning connections, and not accepting any04:42
luke-jrcrashanddie: that's the problem04:42
luke-jrIPv6 with a proper customer-controlled firewall is the solution04:43
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odin_yes allowing the end device control the nature of the firewall it has upstream, would be really good, what does uPNP does in this regard ?04:43
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crashanddieGAN900: for what it's worth, ads from my birthmonth:
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odin_are they black and white ?  or just radio audio ?04:45
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luke-jrodin_: uPNP does exactly that, yes04:50
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crashanddieuPNP is a danger04:51
odin_luke-jr, I think it does more than that and I'm not sure it can have a "pass-all" mode, or "tcpdump filter" mode, its more like "setup a temporary DNAT port-mapping for inbound packets", which might not be feature full enough04:52
crashanddieAllowing arbitrary devices to set up arbitrary routing rules04:52
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javispedroUPNP can be whatever you want it to be04:52
odin_well I presume a uPNP client may only allow you to setup mappings to your client IP (providing the mapping isn't taken) and I presume it allows for arbitration/negotiation of the port numbers that can be used04:53
odin_maybe some bad implementations of uPNP allow you to do silly insecure things04:53
javispedrowhile what I'm going to say it's not entirely true, you can see upnp as a plain rpc protocol04:54
javispedroms (iirc) standarized a common home router device interface (yes, as in OO) for use by windows04:54
javispedrowhich only has defined methods for port mappings and simple statistics04:55
javispedro(like the packet counter on xp's network status dialog)04:55
odin_sound useful!  maybe the filterd out packet/data count would be more useful!04:56
javispedrobut -- you want to add methods for "self_destroy()" you can do, ofc you'll have to design a custom client for it04:56
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crashanddieodin_: after seeing how prius managed to screw up simple functions like .accelerate(), you're telling me you trust toshiba with your router?04:56
odin_he no, must router is linux, but maybe a toshiba one will go faster !  :)04:57
crashanddieodin_: "bad implementations" are what manufacturers do to save costs. If it works, it's a sell. If it works before anyone else's, it's a million unit sold04:57
infobotcrashanddie meant: odin_: "bad implementations" are what manufacturers do to save costs. If it works, it's a sell. If it works before anyone else's, it's a million unit sale04:57
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javispedroyes, toshiba's router will have a 128 MiB rootfs only =)04:59
GAN900Somebody needs to vote down the d-iilvil themes for putting install instructions in the short description.05:00
* crashanddie taps fingers like mister burns, while murmuring "Excellent", and waiting for the next DCC SEND bug05:00
odin_what is the law on distributing an application but when the user installs it, the application goes an downloads directly other publicly available data (but not redistributable) ?05:00
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crashanddieodin_: pretty much the same as distributing p2p software05:01
crashanddieodin_: basically, don't distribute the links with the software, make the user type in the URL05:01
javispedroaka noone knows. shoot the lawyers first then ask questions.05:01
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crashanddieodin_: if the URL points to copyrighted material, and you hardcoded the URL into the app, and had control of the URL's content, you are liable05:02
odin_well the user installing will not see a URL but they will have to acknowldge the action a "robot" goes and does on their behalf, with them taking 1st person responsibility for data usage, I can't see how making them type anything in makes a difference05:03
crashanddieodin_: if however the URL points to an excellent Google ranking for the words "pittipot damiclou", well, fair game really05:03
crashanddieodin_: because you providing specific software doesn't link it with specific material when the user has to find it separately, and type it in manually?05:04
crashanddie(or by clicking on a .torrent file)05:04
crashanddiewhereas, if it automatically downloads a file (in other words: the only possible outcome of downloading and installing the software and then running it will result in the user ending up with illegal/copyrighted material), then you are liable for spreading a means to acquire illegal content.05:05
odin_this is nothing to do with torrents or P2P, the data is actually on a website (and is already publicly available data), I see the torrent being used in the process of distributing copyrighted material that neither the holder, sender, network or receiver have rights to05:05
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odin_think more like a new aggregation, information comes from news site, thats is much closer analogy05:05
crashanddiethen explain your stuff properly in the first place?05:06
infobotodin_ meant: think more like a news aggregation, information comes from news site, thats is much closer analogy05:06
crashanddiethough, if it's not redistributable, it probably means they need to accept some kind of ToS or UL05:06
crashanddiewho is hosting the info?05:07
crashanddieyou or the owners?05:07
odin_you install a program and during the install a robot goes and obtains information that is publicly available (and having dubious copyright/fair-use rights to view/use it)05:07
crashanddieyou are trying to undust the stick to get yourself beaten mate05:07
odin_the owners of the info, no redistribution is going on, a robot goes and gets it direct every time05:07
crashanddiestop talking about a robot05:07
crashanddiethe computer doesn't do it out of its own mind, you instruct it to05:08
crashanddie(or the user)05:08
odin_a robot is a computerized thing that the owner of the computer commands05:08
crashanddieodin_: if it has dubious copyright, stay well clear of it05:08
odin_that is why I use the term "robot"05:08
crashanddielink to material?05:08
odin_its not dubious copyright in that way!05:08
odin_say a companys logo on their homepage05:09
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crashanddiethat is publicly available (and having dubious copyright/fair-use rights to view/use it)05:09
odin_it is dubious what copyright they have to it, since its public information05:09
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crashanddieerhm, no, it's not05:09
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odin_so any claim to copyright is dubious, since it is being used in the way the website intended, i.e. to be downlaoded05:09
crashanddiejust because it's publicly accessible doesn't mean you're entitled to use it freely as you wish05:09
odin_Im not using it05:09
odin_the user the robot is05:10
crashanddieoh ffs, stfu05:10
crashanddietry to make that distinction in court, I'm telling you what's what, now stop playing dumbass05:10
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crashanddieeither you need to start listening, or you don't ask a question you want no answer to05:10
crashanddiefucking troll05:11
odin_not are not telling my anything, since you are not understanding it in the same terms, you are citing terms that don't seem related to what I'm explaining05:11
odin_fair enough05:11
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luke-jrcrashanddie: I think I get odin_, as bad as he is expressing his idea05:52
luke-jrcrashanddie: basically, he's talking about software that automatically downloads copyrighted material from the copyright holder's legitimate distribution site05:53
* DocScrutinizer points to google maps and other web services, as an example for owner of copyright has the right to define what he thinks is fair use05:53
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luke-jrfor example, the Gentoo N8x0 overlay's ability to automatically download Nokia copyrighted material from Nokia's server05:53
crashanddieluke-jr: just because it's *accessible* doesn't make it *free of use*05:53
luke-jrcrashanddie: because Nokia is doing the distribution, there is no copyright infringement05:54
crashanddieand more specifically, I can have a picture on my website, and say anyone who hotlinks, or copies that, or makes it being displayed through anything else than my full website is copyright infringment05:54
luke-jrcopyright only restricts very specific uses-- namely, distribution05:54
odin_I wasn't trying to cause anyone any ago, but it seems to be an issue in the "mobile application" area05:54
infobotodin_ meant: I wasn't trying to cause anyone any agro, but it seems to be an issue in the "mobile application" area05:55
luke-jronce you legally obtain a copy, it's up to you how you want to use it, unless you've signed/agreed to a contract restricting your usage in the meantime05:55
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luke-jrcrashanddie: that is utter nonsense05:55
crashanddieluke-jr: erhm, no, it's not05:55
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: that's bullshit05:55
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: then why does Nokia require agreeing to a contract *before* they distribute the data?05:56
crashanddiebecause that's their policy05:56
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crashanddiedoesn't mean everyone's policy is the same05:56
luke-jrbecause it's necessary to control usage05:56
DocScrutinizerbecause they decide to do so05:56
crashanddieluke-jr: reading an article on a blog doesn't allow you to repost it somewhere else05:56
luke-jrcrashanddie: I didn't say it does05:56
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: exactly05:56
crashanddieluke-jr: even though you had the legal right to "obtain a copy"05:56
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: you did05:56
luke-jrcrashanddie: that's not the same thing at all05:56
luke-jrthis is like putting an <iframe> on your site referring to that blog05:57
odin_mobile application writer (and copyright holder of that app) writes an app, that acts as a robot for the user of the app, which goes and use re-uses information freely available from the internet.  the copyright breacher (if there is one) is the app user, since the app writer did not command the robot to perform the breach (the user explicitly was told and consented to an action)05:57
DocScrutinizerwhich also is a copyright infringement05:57
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: nope, an iframe doesn't copy anything05:57
DocScrutinizertell that to the lawyers05:58
crashanddieluke-jr: actually, it displays copyrighted content under your copyrighted page, which is a pretty grey area05:58
luke-jrthe viewer's browser makes a request to YOUR server, and YOUR server gives a response05:58
luke-jrall the copying of YOUR content is done by YOUR server which is YOUR responsibility05:58
crashanddieluke-jr: it's seriously not clear cut, there are many cases going on about hotlinking05:58
SpeedEvilAnd it's gone different ways in different jurisdictions05:58
luke-jrif someone doesn't like it, they can refuse requests with unknown Referer headers05:59
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: here in Germany you may go to jail for keeping a href link to a site with incriminate material on your site05:59
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: not for copyright infringemnet05:59
odin_the court my hear, that at all times the copyright owner had control to manage distribution of their material (but failed to do so), however disk caching the object maybe grey area too05:59
luke-jrcopyright infringement is a civil matter, not criminal05:59
luke-jrodin_: there are HTTP headers to control caching as well06:00
odin_unless it relates to DCMA (and you are in the USA) :)06:00
luke-jrodin_: none of this is DMCA-related06:00
luke-jrunless you spoof User-Agent or Referer maybe06:00
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luke-jrthat could arguably be breaking a copy protection measure...06:00
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: no, but for copyright infringement every day 5k noobs pay k$$$ of royalties to those holding copyright of the iframed pictures06:00
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crashanddieodin_: you're talking crap, and really just trolling06:00
odin_luke-jr, I understand that too, re Cache-Control/Pragma headers, yes none of this is DMCA related06:00
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luke-jrcrashanddie: if your position were valid, Gentoo is illegal ;)06:01
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crashanddieluke-jr: eh?06:01
crashanddiehow so?06:01
luke-jrcrashanddie: Gentoo's Portage tree links and automatically downloads non-redistributable files06:01
luke-jrsuch as nVidia's blob06:01
crashanddienope, it is redistributable06:01
luke-jris it now?06:01
luke-jrwasn't last time I checked06:02
crashanddieconsidering you need to accept the ToS when installing it06:02
crashanddieor whatever their licence is called06:02
luke-jrthere's no legal basis for EULAs in most places including the USA :)06:02
crashanddieluke-jr: it is freely redistributable06:02
crashanddieluke-jr: and again, nvidia allows direct wget'ing of their tar, that's their issue, but doesn't make it a global acceptance for everyone06:02
DocScrutinizerIANL, and this is a really SILLY discussion06:02
luke-jrcrashanddie: in all cases we're discussing, the copyright holder allowed the copy06:03
odin_what if robots auto-click EULAs (and all that)06:03
crashanddieluke-jr: if my website says "None of this material is to be used outside this website's boundaries", then it is your duty to respect it06:03
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luke-jrcrashanddie: only if I copy it06:04
odin_it wgets, boots up Xnest, runs installer with GUI into Xnext, clicks the OK button and exits (more grey area)06:04
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: even worse, that's considered default policy06:04
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Fair use in copyright law may trounce that.06:04
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crashanddieluke-jr: no, he didn't, odin_ *never* said the website accepted it. He said it had "dubious copyright/fair-use rights to view/use it"06:04
luke-jrcrashanddie: you can't force me to comply with your demands; if I don't make a copy, you have nothing to barter with06:04
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crashanddieluke-jr: in which case, he should get written approval, which in most cases will be 200 times easier to get than speculating on this without a lawyer familiar with your jurisdiction's laws and regulations06:05
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: bs, copyright isn't about ""COPY"06:05
luke-jrat least in the USA, distribution online is "done" by the uploader-- in this case, YOU, the copyright holder06:05
odin_yes the usage I am thinking through would by many be seen are fair use, my use of "dubious copyright/fair-use" was in relation to the copyright holders dubious claim over the material, in light of fair-usage of it (just to clarify that again, at not time was I referring to any already illegal content)06:06
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luke-jrI don't need to agree to any terms to view your website, unless you present those terms to me up front and decline to copy the site to me until I've agreed to them06:06
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crashanddieSpeedEvil: fair use, yes, but not integral copy of artwork. odin_ has been obtusely arguing about having a robot "copying copyrighted material", which doesn't seem fair use at all06:06
luke-jrcrashanddie: storing data to disk that the copyright holder's server sends you is undeniably fair use, especially if there's no header saying "don't cache this"06:07
odin_well its thats true, the software-robot is downloading a potentially copyrights object from a webserver for display purposes, so yes in effect it must copy it to do that06:07
crashanddieodin_: how about you just clearly state what the fuck you're talking about instead of remaining with such opake and unclear terms?06:07
crashanddie~sp opake06:07
crashanddie~dict opake06:07
infobotDictionary 'opake' \O*pake"\, a. See {Opaque}. [1913 Webster]06:07
infobotcrashanddie: no problem06:07
odin_but the real grey area comes into what happens if you attempt to "store it", as I think that of that as being the real breach, but then HTTP caches store it  in say Firefox06:08
SpeedEvilMachines cannot enter contracts.06:08
SpeedEvilNeither can chimps.06:08
SpeedEvilOnly humans can direct those machines to enter contracts or licences.06:08
* DocScrutinizer throws a remark into discussion about missing concept of "fair use" in Europe (at least Germany), then wanders off to ##hobby-lawyers06:08
luke-jrSpeedEvil: neither can humans, unless given an opportunity to deliberate and back out, and in many jurisdictions, both parties need to gain something06:08
odin_of course they can't and that was never the point, the "user of the software" enters the contact, not the creator of the software, this is the contract between the copyright holder and the "user of the software"06:08
SpeedEvilluke-jr: yes - that's a seperate issue.06:09
crashanddiemay I suggest this discussion be taken elsewhere?06:09
SpeedEvilodin_: you seem to be arguing that ...06:09
crashanddieconsidering we've grossly overstepped the bounds of #maemo?06:09
luke-jrSpeedEvil: hotlinking never makes a copy, so there is no opportunity for the target's copyright holder to demand any terms06:09
odin_the term robot is used throuhgout to emphasis the relationship between the "action" and the "control of the action"06:09
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odin_sure thing06:10
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: bs, copyright isn't about ""COPY"06:10
luke-jrthe reason I checked this tab...06:10
luke-jranyone get GPIO in 2.6.33?06:11
crashanddieodin_: PM06:11
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DocScrutinizergerman word for copyright is Urheberrecht, which doesn't contain the notion of copy anything, instead it is about the creator of IP has the right to define what he wants to be done with the IP and what not06:12
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DocScrutinizerand a lot of people pay lots of royalties for iframing logos or pictures they have not been granted to use06:16
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DocScrutinizerno matter if that's "a copy" or whatelse06:16
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DocScrutinizerit's a weaker form of a patent06:18
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TermanaWouldn't bypassing the EULA acceptance by directly downloading it be breaking a copy protection measure? (eg. the EULA acceptance protects copying). Maybe not in the strictest sense, but if you broaden the meanings a bit06:19
TermanaI doubt it would be under any such laws either06:21
* DocScrutinizer sighs06:22
DocScrutinizerdo you think a cover version of a song is a 'COPY'?06:22
DocScrutinizerdo you think you're free to do cover versions as you like?06:22
Termanayou have to have the appropriate licenses06:23
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: she ain't arguing that06:23
crashanddieTermana = she?06:23
DocScrutinizerbecause the original songwriter holds the COPYRIGHT06:23
crashanddieah, my bad06:23
TermanaAt least not last time I checked06:23
crashanddieTermana: sounds pretty girly, apologies06:23
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TermanaDocScrutinizer, I wasn't saying anything about the debate, I was merely saying, in the broad sense of the words copy protection measure, couldn't that include a EULA being used06:25
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DocScrutinizeruntil now an EULA wasn't considered a copy protection in any trial I heard of. Would be rather silly06:34
DocScrutinizeras an EULA is to *grant* usage of some IP under certain conditions, not to stop a copying process06:36
DocScrutinizerbu I bet tomorrow some evil lawyer will try to make a point based on that notion, in some trial somewhere06:37
odin_also the EULA is not re-asserted for every "session of access with the works", since part of DMCA is about "access control to copyrighted works", the holder must demonstrate they took measure to control/restrict access, but it is before the initial copy/installation process, all very grey06:38
DocScrutinizerand I give a shit on DMCA, as we got no such thing here in Europe, and bye06:39
* DocScrutinizer off for breakfast06:39
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thunderfesthello all07:13
thunderfestI just bought a n900 it should be here tomorrow I'm pretty excited07:14
thunderfesthow can there be 511 people in a channel and no one to talk too?07:17
thunderfesthey how is going?07:19
thunderfestis it*07:19
thunderfestyeah I'm really excited I cannot wait for my N900 to get here07:20
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jaemGood evening :)07:24
thunderfestgood evening07:24
thunderfestI just bought a n900 it should come tomorrow I'm quite excited07:26
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jaemthunderfest, \o/07:30
jaemJoin the party. :)07:30
jaemI just walked into my room and found my computer speakers playing the radio.07:30
jaemEM noise is fun!07:30
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thunderfestdo you guys do much development?07:31
jaemIt had me a bit confused for a moment, though. :P07:31
jaemthunderfest, I do a bit, personally.  I'm currently employed at my university for the summer, coding for the N900, though. :)07:32
jaemWhat about you?07:32
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thunderfestsame also currently employed for my university for the summer07:32
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thunderfestdoing multi-touch stuff though not n900 stuff07:33
jaemthunderfest, Awesome - which university?07:33
thunderfestEast Carolina07:33
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jaemSimon Fraser (Burnaby, British Columbia)07:34
thunderfestECU is in north Carolina in the states07:34
thunderfestthe CS department here is not that great07:35
* ljp works all day on development07:35
jaemAh.  What sort of tech are you working with?07:35
thunderfestwhat do you mean07:35
DocScrutinizerljp: heh, I guess almost everybody should know :-)07:36
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jaemthunderfest, is it laptops? touch-tables? mobile?07:36
ljpDocScrutinizer: I'm also developing kids in my spare time :)07:36
thunderfestwell we have a table I built a could years ago and I'm about to start build a lcd wall07:37
DocScrutinizerlcd wall, hmmm yummy07:37
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ljphandball lcd wall!!07:38
DocScrutinizersome 20 years ago I was involved in monitor wall development07:38
ljpor skateboard lcd wall07:38
thunderfestthis is not really a LCD wall its just one big LCD screen that is multi-touch  just wall mounted and not table top07:39
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jaemWhat type of multitouch are you using?07:40
* jaem is a bit frustrated07:41
thunderfestits ok I don't really care for doing all the hardware stuff I'm much more into building software07:41
* DocScrutinizer googles for FTIR07:42
jaemI forgot to snapshot my SDK VM before updating it to [that thing we don't talk about]07:42
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jaemLuckily, my current code is not dependent on anything that makes a difference, so it still builds for the device fine right now.07:42
thunderfestI have been developing some gesture recognition algorithms they are coming quite nicely07:43
thunderfestI've ported some of then to my n81007:43
jaemthunderfest, is the N810 code public (or able to be published?)07:43
thunderfestnot yet07:43
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thunderfestmy university will let me open the code after we finish publishing some papers07:44
jaemIs the porting part of a larger project, or just for platform/reference purposes?07:45
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thunderfestjust for fun really07:45
jaemThat's nice of them.  The bulk of what we're working on won't be, and I can understand, but we have published one component already under LGPL.07:45
jaemHmm... just out of curiousity, does anyone know how Maemo exposes/stores its call log info?07:46
thunderfestit took alot of convincing on my part I don't understand why academics are so afraid of open source sometimes07:47
thunderfestfor the n900?07:47
jaemIt's not actually relevant to me, given the circumstances, but I know some carriers offer plans with, say, 5 "friends" numbers as unlimited, and a friend was asking if there was a way to display call timers with calls to those numbers deducted, so you could see how much of your general airtime was left.07:48
jaemthunderfest, Yes.07:48
thunderfestI think I saw a thread about it on  but I don't have a link07:48
thunderfestsome folks were complaining about the built in call history app and some others went on to explain the the logger actuality logs alot more information then is shown07:50
jaemthunderfest, Hmm, it is a bit odd, I'd agree.  In my situation, they're receptive to it, but the core of the project is a bunch of fancy math that they hope to license out commercially at some point.07:50
jaemIn that case, I can see why, even though my penguin-hugging side wishes it wasn't so. ;)07:50
jaemYeah, I think I saw that at some point.07:50
jaemAs I was saying, it's kind of moot for me, as the only carrier in Canada that properly supports the N900 doesn't offer that sort of plan.07:51
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thunderfestare you a student or faculty?07:51
jaemI'm an undergraduate student.07:51
thunderfestah I'm a masters student I have two undergrad degrees in math and comp sci07:52
jaemI'm actually pretty stoked right now, because my evil dumphone contract is up at the end of the summer, and I'll be able to start using my N900 (which I get free as part of the research deal)07:52
thunderfestthats pretty sweet07:52
jaemConveniently enough, the new carrier that supports the phone is just rolling into town around the same time.07:53
jaemTake a look-see:
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thunderfestI cannot wait for my n900 to get here tomorrow07:53
jaemThe only catch appears to be that since the carrier is brand new, anything much outside the city areas they're building out from is actually roaming on a competitor's network.07:54
thunderfestis roaming extra07:54
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thunderfestI have not had a GSM phone in years07:55
jaemthunderfest, yes, that's the thing.  When the page refers to a "WIND Zone", they mean their own network.  So, if you go somewhere they don't have coverage, you'll get billed over-and-above the plan cost.07:55
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jaemAs they expand, though, that becomes less of a problem07:55
thunderfestI've been using sip over wifi for quite some time07:55
jaemGah!  I forgot to turn off the haunted speakers, and just realized that the annoying noise I kept hearing was them.07:56
jaemI really need to check into that properly... I hope that's not coming over the power lines.07:56
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thunderfesthas anyone tried the clarivue mirror finish screen protector ... I've hear some good things about the ultra clear but what about the mirror?07:59
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opdf2i haven't, but I love the Vikuiti DQC-160 I got on08:00
thunderfestI have heard alot of good things about that one too08:00
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thunderfestbut it seems to be a bit harder to get here in the states08:01
thunderfestdo you know of a reseller?08:02
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opdf2Not in the states. I am from the states and ordered from protectionfilms24.com08:02
opdf2Ships from Germany I think?08:03
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jacekowskiprobably china08:03
opdf2I can't remember how long it took to ship because of the volcano ash08:03
thunderfestshipping still free even over sees08:03
jacekowski4 weeks from EU to AU08:04
jacekowskion ship08:04
RST38hhey Arkenoi08:05
opdf2Yes shipping is free.08:05
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* RST38h automatically assumed astronomical unit when he saw "AU".08:07
jaemRST38h, how many attoParsecs is it between those areas? :P08:07
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RST38hWho knows... This problem is still awaiting its scientific genius08:09
RST38hSomebody who has tmo moderation privileges, do take a look at the Vietnamese bozo08:10
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jaemRST38h, oh, what now?08:10
jaemSpam, or trolling?08:10
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RST38hSpam, selling stolen credit card data08:10
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RST38hAnd the f2hak guy too08:11
jaemThat rings a bell... context?08:11
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RST38hSorry, no, the name is HARDE, the title is "Buy Apple iPhone 3GS 32GB $180 Nokia N8 $250USD"08:12
jaemOh, that.08:12
jaemThe name you mentioned was one I recognized, that's all.  Probably from previous incidents08:12
* RST38h amusedly notices that the trolls now started whining about N900 shortcomings in Chinese08:12
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mintuxMohammadAG: hey how are you . I bought n900 yesterday but I don't find arabic or perian language . I need it for keyboard only for search in google or sms or chat08:22
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* DocScrutinizer thought there's arabic keyboard layout08:23
DocScrutinizernot in the default image ootb though08:23
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mintuxwhat do you mean by image ?08:24
DocScrutinizererr, the firmware, the set of software packages, whatever08:24
mintuxDocScrutinizer: means I can append that language as a package ?08:25
DocScrutinizerI'd guess yes08:25
jaemmintux, I heard some rumblings about arabic keyboard something-or-other recently, but I didn't read the thread(s).08:25
DocScrutinizersomebody built a keyborad layout for arabic iirc08:25
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DocScrutinizeranyway the keycap prints probably are hard to change ;-P08:26
DocScrutinizernot a problem if you're good at blind typing08:27
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jaemSo, question for you all.08:27
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mintuxI installed pygtkeditor also but it doesn't highlight source and everything was black . also auto close bracket doesn't work . what are  facilities of that editor ?08:28
jaemFor the research we're doing, someone contacts us and asks to see a demo video.  As part of this, I've been asked to put together some sort of semi-automated system that will allow us to quickly generate screenvids of our demo app simulating real-world functionality.08:29
jaemThe app (in the simulation mode) will run on a desktop/laptop as-is.08:29
jaemHowever, I'm wondering if you folks have any suggestions about how best to create the video.08:29
jaemI assume I'd have to be running it in SBox/Xephyr in order for it to look like a native Maemo app, right?08:30
jaemOr can I fudge it in a native build on my desktop with themes and such?08:30
DocScrutinizerrun it on N900? ;-P08:30
jaemDocScrutinizer, last I checked, the screenvid applet had problems.08:31
DocScrutinizerdunno why08:31
jaemAlso, ideally we'd want to do it off-device; ideally, I'd hand a data file to a script and go grab a snack. Heh.08:31
jaemThat would be harder to do reliably on-device, for me.08:31
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DocScrutinizerjaem: but N900 has a CVBS video out you can record on any standard video grabber08:32
jaemDocScrutinizer, there's a bug on it - I don't have the link handy.08:32
jaemDocScrutinizer, True, although I don't have one.08:33
jaemThe CS lab has some machines with video input, but that's more messy than I'd like.08:34
jaemI was just looking for suggestions/advice/opinions on the viability of recording from SBox vs doing it on a desktop build.08:34
DocScrutinizerI don't want to think about how messy recording xephyr might get08:34
jaemDocScrutinizer, That's why I was asking - I've never tried, but I kind of had a feeling... :P08:35
Macerhm. someone needs to make maemo for wii :-P08:35
DocScrutinizerprobably nobody ever did before :-P08:35
jaemMacer, it's called MeeGo?08:35
Macerjaem: nobody knows!08:35
jaemRST38h, Please, no! *hides*08:36
Macerif pr 1.2 comes out with a meego banner then i'll be satisfied :)08:36
jaemMacer, *gasp* you said the forbidden word!08:36
jaemBanhammer, quick! ;)08:36
* DocScrutinizer burrrps08:36
* Macer hides under a rock08:37
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DocScrutinizerlife of Brian - "he said the word!!"08:37
Maceri was software modding my wii.. well.. it already was.. i was just updating it08:38
Macerit's amazing the sorts of things that start to work when you put off updating for like 9 months08:38
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jaemHmm... well, does Maemo 5 do any voodoo with the Qt theming, or is it something I could theoretically shoehorn onto a desktop machine?08:38
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DocScrutinizerhmm, should work, no?08:39
Macerbatterygraph is qt :)08:39
jaem-shrug- I've never looked into it.  For that matter, is it even a native theme, or using the GTK+ themer through a wrapper, as on KDE SC, for example?08:40
* jaem checks08:40
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mintuxI put deb diablo free non-free in source list but when I update lt's return error some index failds to download ... is it correct address ?08:54
jaemmintux, where did you enter that?08:55
jaemOr that... heh08:55
jacekowskijaem: he said sources.list08:55
jaemmintux, which device is this on?08:55
jaemjacekowski, yes, but there are two.08:55
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jacekowskimintux: it should be fremantle08:55
jaemmintux, well, then diablo should be fremantle, to start.08:55
jacekowskiand you should do it via app manager btw.08:55
jaemmintux, if you must do it via command line, be aware that the normal sources.list will get overwritten by the App Manager, which keeps its own.  I'm not sure why they do that.08:56
mintuxjaem: im in app manager distribution field has fremantle and in componentes are free and non-free is that correct?08:58
jaemmintux, should be.08:59
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jaemDo you want me to check (I'll be a second)08:59
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DocScrutinizerincredible, my extras catalog is gone :-o09:01
DocScrutinizeraah, ssems that's now09:02
jaemmintux, That's correct.09:02
DocScrutinizerfree non-free09:03
jaem-testing and -devel should be the same, except with the suffix on the "extras" bit09:03
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mintuxI did update list. but I don't see any extra package in softeare lists09:04
jaemmintux, Did you not have extras in the list at all before?09:04
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DocScrutinizermintux: btw aka extras isn't editable/deletable here09:05
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jaemDocScrutinizer, sorry?09:05
mintuxI don't have extra icon09:05
mintuxjaem: ^09:05
DocScrutinizermintux: extras is called '' here in HAM, and I neither can edit nor delete it09:06
jaemmintux, yes, but I missed the beginning of all of this, I guess.  Did you get the Extras repo deleted from the list originally, or something?09:06
DocScrutinizermintux: so I'd guess you should have that as well09:07
DocScrutinizeras it seems to be 'hardcoded' to HAM09:07
mintuxextras in my catalog list and I did update nothing add in my list09:07
DocScrutinizermintux: nobody ever cares about catalog list text file09:08
jaemmintux, very roughly, how many program entries would you say you are seeing in HAM?09:08
mintuxso where should I looking for09:08
jaemoff the top of your head.09:08
DocScrutinizermintux: look in application manager for "" catalog09:09
DocScrutinizermintux: menu -> catalogs09:09
mintuxim there09:09
mintuxfree non-free09:10
jaemmintux, that's Extras09:10
jaemthey changed the name09:10
DocScrutinizerso that's extras, no?09:10
mintuxbut suppose I would like to install unzip09:10
mintuxwhere can I find it09:11
mintuxit's not in my package09:11
DocScrutinizerthat's probably in extras-devel, or even tools09:11
jaemmintux, oh... the actual command line "unzip" package wouldn't be09:11
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jaemI think it is in extras, but you'll have to install it with apt-get.09:11
DocScrutinizermaybe that09:11
jaemThe unzip file manager addon is in -testing or -devel, I think.09:11
mintuxI try with apt-get but it didn't find09:11
jaem...if that's what you're looking for.09:11
jaemmintux, Check the packages search?09:12
mintuxso should I add extras-devel?09:12
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jaemmintux, check -testing first.09:12
DocScrutinizeranyway rule of thumb is you need apt-get install for non-GUI packages09:12
mintuxmeans add -testing where?09:12
jaemDocScrutinizer, You mean I need to use the console to get console apps?! Madness!09:13
DocScrutinizermintux: yep, if you want to dare, then add extras-devel to application manager catalogs09:13
mintuxin components?09:13
DocScrutinizerjaem: yes, nuts, isn't it?09:13
jaemmintux, sorry, copy the "" repo info into a new cataloge, but in the URL, change "extras" to "extras-testing" or "extras-devel"09:13
* jaem shakes his head09:13
mintuxgot it09:13
mintuxtesting is safe than devel?09:15
DocScrutinizer51a little09:15
jaemmintux, yes.  -testing is the "beta" repo, and -devel is the repo that kills cute animals.09:15
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JaffaMorning, all09:20
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JaffaGAN900: ping09:20
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Corsachmhm, nice, it seems I can make the desktop crash when pressing the top button09:21
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jaemCorsac, yay?09:21
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Corsacrebooting just in case09:24
Corsac(and I hate when some widgets aren't restarted when desktop crashes)09:25
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dotblankare we there yet?09:25
Corsacseems fixed after reboot09:25
jaemdotblank, I'd say "no", because that's the stereotypical answer, however, if you elaborate, maybe I can be more helpful. :P09:26
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mintuxsomething typed in my phone and send to me. what's that ?????? see these typed in conversation yahoo on my n90009:29
mintuxit's hack or something like that ?09:29
Stskeepssomeone trying to, probably09:29
mintuxwho? how ?09:30
Stskeepsbut that output is from where? :P09:30
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mintuxwhat shall I do now ?09:31
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mintuxwhen I installed extra plugin for converesation and add IRc this happened09:31
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Corsacwhen connected to an irc chan?09:33
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mintuxand i'v got it from extra-testing repository09:34
mintuxplease check that if someone write a trojan or something like that09:34
mintuxbut it send from yahoo09:34
mintux1 id is enable on my phone09:35
mintuxand 1 id is enable on my pc09:35
mintuxwith the id from phone that texts sent to me from yahoo messenger09:35
mintuxit seems windows command09:36
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pupnikmintux: quite a mystery :)09:43
pupnikwhat sort of client would execute that in a dos shell?  (or some other execution environment?)09:43
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viliny__eh... :P09:46
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* mintux loves linux mint09:46
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jaemmintux, the package isn't malicious - you can be pretty sure of that.09:48
jacekowskiwell, probably somebody on irc sent you that09:48
jaemProbably just IM spam09:48
jacekowskithat's what happens when you install packages that you don't know how to use09:48
jacekowskior don't rtfm09:48
jacekowskibefore using them09:48
infobotjacekowski meant: befande using them09:48
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jaemjacekowski, fail09:48
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mintuxnooo I have 2 yahoo id => mrglinux (it log on my phone) and hesedigar is login on my pc . the window was open. I don't touch phone but from phone that texts send to me and I see the phone .it look like somebody type it in my phone in yahoo id and press send and I got it in my pc from second id09:50
mintuxwhat is the spam here?09:51
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viliny__So you managed the get a maemo phone infected with something that spams your contact lists with potentially dangerous lins/commands ?09:52
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jacekowskiviliny__: doubt that09:53
mintuxI just install some softwrae09:53
jacekowskii think he doesn't know what happened09:54
mintuxI bought it yesterday09:54
* mintux thinks take photo from phone and put it here09:54
jacekowskii hate people doing that09:54
jacekowskithere is screenshot app avaliable09:54
jacekowskiuse it09:54
mintuxI didn't know09:55
mintuxI installed now09:55
jacekowskii have to go now09:55
mintuxwhat is the pacakge name ? for take screenshot?09:56
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Nitialyou don't even need app for it. ctrl+shift+p does the job09:56
jacekowskiNitial: and 3rd hand would be usefull as well09:57
pupnik~Fruity Oaty Bars, make a man out of a mouse...~09:58
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mikki-kunjacekowski: naw, three hands on the n900's keyboard? are you kidding? i'd say i have a lil smaller hands than average and with two hands the keyboard is already full ^^10:02
mintux jacekowski: screenshot of my phone and my computer  I know what happened10:03
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jaemNitial, screencap is built in?  Really?10:03
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mintuxit send from my pc to phone10:05
mintuxnot phon to pc10:05
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jaemmorning, hrw10:05
mintuxbut here is pidgin and there is no spam or something like that for pidgin . what does it mean10:06
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mikki-kunmintux: hu? no spam in pidgin? you know it depends more on the protocol you are using not on the messenger itself whether spam arrives you or not...10:08
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jaemmintux, that's true.  Unless you have a client that has a built-in spam filter (I don't know of any with that by default), then the client isn't going to have an effect10:09
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mintuxI didn't see it before10:10
mintuxyahoo messenger maybe be damaged with virus or hacked because on windows and ... but pidgin and linux is very hard to break10:11
mikki-kunmintux: trust me, i got at some point a hell lot of spam... don't know who sold my UIN out but i get several times a day some goddamn "friend requests" in ICQ from some russians10:11
mikki-kunnothing against russians, just the spam is hell a lot of annoying10:11
mintuxwhen cable of power connected the display doesn't turn off?10:12
mikki-kunmintux: trust me, linux is not unbreakable... in fact every day at least there is an exploit found in damaging your system badly... most harmful case is the user himself ^^10:12
viliny__so russia pretty much owned finland in ice hockey yesterday. I swear, every time i muster the intrest to watch that crap it follows the same formula: Start off exciting and end with a brutal letdown - done with hockey for a couple more years :P10:14
viliny__Goddamn russians ^^10:14
fralswhy does the 'downloads' page for an application reset itself randomly?10:14
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jaemmintux, I think mikki-kun may be exaggerating a bit, but the point is still valid. Linux is generally quite secure, but User Error is still by far the leading cause of problems on any OS.10:14
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mikki-kunviliny__: but finland played really bad yesterday... what the hell were they doing? no attacks just some "here, your puck, try doing something"10:14
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jaem...also, spam happens.  If your computer were infected, ads/spam would probably *not* be being piped into your IM client - there are many better ways to present ads when you've already infected a computer.10:15
mikki-kunjaem: can just report of my first linux-experiences ^^ tried suse 4 years ago.... damn, i killed gdm and i didn't know anymore what to do :D in th aftermath something really funny ^^10:16
mintuxwhen my phone connected to the cable of power somebody call on my phone but I didn't answer but display didn't turn off after 30 seconds . ( I unplugged cable ) but display was still light until I press lock screen and keyboard. why  ? now I doesn't worl with my phone but display is on too ( cable is connected now )10:16
DocScrutinizer51blarrgh, modem stuck at 2.5 for 5h. Had to swith to 3G-only and back to dual to fix it10:16
viliny__mikki-kun: started off promising and ended with blue balls - standard procedure :P10:16
mikki-kunviliny__: but hey, at least next opponent is not canada10:17
mikki-kunthat's now the winners problem :D10:17
jaemmikki-kun, hehe... one of my earliest serious mess-ups was a typo that moved the contents of /usr to a subdirectory of itself. >_<10:17
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mikki-kunö.ö now that is also bad :D10:17
jaemLuckily, the one app that didn't quickly bail on me was an IDE with a console embedded in it, and I was able to repair the damage without rebooting.10:17
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mikki-kunbut the thing could have been easily repaired with a live-usb10:19
jaemYes, but at the time, I didn't know if rebooting would have done more damage.10:19
jaemGah... I'm an idiot.  I just tar'd a symlink and transferred it across machines, only to realize that I didn't have any of the files in the *actual* folder10:20
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mikki-kunjaem: yeah, with compressing files i had also my share...10:22
mikki-kunit's way easier doing that via command line than with a GUI i think10:22
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mintuxhow can I play the flv movie from youtube ( I grab it form /tmp ) it doesn't play even I renamed to .flv but it doesn't play10:27
kPb_inhello all.. how can i install qemu on n900?? do i need to add another repo?10:27
jaemkPb_in, QEmu ... *on* ... the N900?10:27
jaemI doubt you can.10:27
jaemAt least, you can't right now.10:27
jaemWhat are you trying to do?10:27
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jaemmintux, the stock media player won't play FLV10:27
jaemMPlayer or one of its graphical frontends will.10:28
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jaemTry KMplayer if aren't comfortable with the command line - I think it's available somewhere.10:28
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kPb_injaem, bochs is available.. just wanted to play around10:28
jaemkPb_in, Ah... to my knowledge, there is no QEmu port.10:28
kPb_injaem, ok10:29
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mikki-kunjaem: i find SIB way easier to use than KMplayer... KMplayer gave me sometimes crashes...10:29
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jaem...and yeah, I'm not a fan of KMPlayer - it's just all I could think of off the top of my head.10:29
mikki-kunyeah, it's as well a front-end to mplayer, just more touchfriendly10:30
jaemHuh... is it in the repos?10:30
mikki-kunyeah, but i think in -devel10:30
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n9user1hi everyone  ... i'm having a little problem installing maemo5 sdk on the fedora core 1210:31
mikki-kunWTF?! i getting all the time "operation failed' messages now after the remake of my n900, but the operations still complete successfully10:31
n9user1it says "you must manually run 'dpkg -- configure -a'10:32
n9user1dont know how to do that ..10:32
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mikki-kundoes fedora even use dpkg?10:32
n9user1no it doesnt. Thats what i'm thinking, maybe the py installation file of m5 needs some fix?10:33
n9user1I googled, and a blog mentioned installing it on fedora, but its talking about some old sdk installation file10:33
n9user1btw mikki-kun, the operation failed msgs, used to come in some older fw afair10:34
mikki-kunlet's see if PR1.1.1 changes that10:35
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n9user1yea it'll10:35
mikki-kuni won't "upgrade" to PR1.210:35
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n9user1pr1.2 is not out yet.10:35
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mikki-kunn9user1: there is the "offical leaked version" ^^10:36
mikki-kunbut that i won't touch10:36
mikki-kunwuhu "Operating system successfully updated"... reminds me of windows somehow atm where it tells you everything you don't need to know...10:36
n9user1yea i know about that, but we dont exactly know what level of stability it has, some says it slows down things and they experience delays at various places, for some its pretty fast.10:36
n9user1but u can wait, and pr1.1 is pretty nice. And wont give you the operation failed msgs.10:37
mikki-kuni will wait for the official pr1.210:37
mikki-kunit's smarter... who knows where the pr1.2 now available even came from10:37
DocScrutinizerand it eats your modem10:38
mikki-kunhu? my poor modem :(10:38
n9user1well its has everything that we know will be in pr1.2 :)10:38
jaemn9user1, If you're getting dpkg errors on a non-debian system, that's the first sign that your install is not going to succeed without hacks. :P10:38
mikki-kungood that i didn't use it10:38
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n9user1modem, it does, but only if you go 1.2, than come back to 1.110:38
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pupnikit is not right to leak your company's stuff10:38
jaemn9user1, if you're able to run the SDK in a VM, or on a Debian/*buntu box, that would be your best bet10:38
n9user1yes, jaem, but what are those hacks :)10:39
Sceltwell, maybe Nokia should release the PR1.2 someday before christmas so people won't get anxious to update to leaked and unofficial version10:39
mikki-kunnokia really takes his time tbh10:39
jaemn9user1, Well, you might get away with a chroot, but the only sane way to do that from scratch is to get debootstrap installed, and on Fedora... I don't know10:39
jaemYou could do it, but there probably isn't a package.10:39
Sceltdon't understand why they publisheed the SDK so long ago10:39
DocScrutinizerit's such an epic fail we don't even want to hear about it here in this channel :-P10:40
pupnikin the case of maemo it might be good for them to have a -devel or -testing repo for the internal updates as well10:40
jaemArch has it, because it's Arch, but normally Debian stuff is hard to find packaged for other distros10:40
pupniklet us geeks help find bugs10:40
mikki-kuni am more of the "when something is available it should be released, even if there could be some bugs. but just give a goddamn warning out that it may hurt your system"10:40
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jaemn9user1, look up debootstrap chroot if you're interested in trying.  It's not ideal, but it might work10:40
jaemmikki-kun, yes, but that unfortunately doesn't fly in this sort of case.10:40
pupnikmikki-kun: yeah - make it require some command-line typing.  keep the pointy-clicky-crowd away10:41
jaemDisclaimers or no, all it takes is a few whiners on the forums, and the tech press rips you apart.10:41
n9user1jaem, i think if some developer who has python knowledge and knows linux's installer stuff, maybe be able to tweak that m5 installation py file10:41
pupnikthe tech-press is full of idiots10:41
mikki-kunjaem: well, depends how it's presented and if the warning comes trice10:41
pupnikjaem is right10:42
jaempupnik, yes, I agree, but they still have some clout in that people read their idiocy, and enough believe them to make a difference10:42
n9user1found this10:42
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jaemmikki-kun, I fully agree with you in the principle of it, but as I said, it doesn't work so well for large corporations in reality10:42
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mikki-kunhm.. but what about gentoo then e.g.? i mean, gentoo can't even be installed without command line (at least not maintained) and thatis definitly not "point-n-click" friendly... i'd say if the users want to really control their system they have to read books otherwise they just scratch the surface and that isn't what "customizing" is about imo10:44
jaemBut Gentoo isn't being sold to the general public on phones.10:45
mikki-kuni bought a goddamn linux-device and not something "iphone'isch"10:45
jaemIf it was, then it would either die, or quickly become something very different.10:45
jaemmikki-kun, yeah, and they aren't hiding all of that from you, but QA/RTFM issues aren't the same thing at all.10:45
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mikki-kuni was thinking in maybe buying myself in the future another n900 and try building gentoo on it10:45
dotblankWhats the best performing video codec for the n900?10:46
jaemmikki-kun, it's been done on the N81010:46
dotblankI heard some divx/xvid plays slowly10:46
dotblankmp4? h264?10:46
viliny__divx xvid played fine on my n95 and runs great on the n90010:46
dotblankbut I also want max quality...10:47
pupnikthe answer is 4210:47
n9user1i think this may be the solution
dotblankAlmost raw... but I want it to perform smoothly10:47
mikki-kunjaem: gentoo was successfully ported to the n810? whoah, gotta see that then :)10:47
dotblankLike If I wanted High-bitrate but low CPU that works on the n90010:47
jaemmikki-kun, for some value of "successfully" :P  Google it - it was quite a while back.10:48
viliny__dotblank: max quality on the n900 screen?10:48
mikki-kunwill do when i try porting gentoo to the wonderful n900 ^^10:48
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jaemmikki-kun, meh, scrap Gentoo - get Plan9 working on it :)10:49
tybollt_jaem: Does it works with The Windews 7?!11110:49
achipadotblank: those are diametrally opposed - higer-bitrate = higher CPU usage. Stick with hardware accelerated profiles and you will be OK10:49
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viliny__dotblank: what does that even mean? You take a high quality but obviously a little less resolution video file and play it... in most cases it will look perfect because of the physical size of the screen. Even TV-out has such shitty quality that any divx compression pales there10:49
mikki-kunwell, first gentoo, then after some years i'll make my own linux via LFS ^^10:50
viliny__i don't get the max quality part10:50
jaemtybollt_, Plan9 works great with Windows 7 - it formats it beautifully, and works without issue!10:50
dotblankachipa, not necessarily it can be high bitrate low cpu at the cost of space10:50
dotblankits the compressin that costs cpu10:51
achipadotblank: you can't cross-compare across different codecs10:51
jaem"Error: An unknown error has occurred"  Woo!  The best kind of error!10:51
dotblankwhat im asking what are the most optimized video codecs for the n90010:51
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mikki-kunjaem: take a look at /var/log/messages ;) ^^10:51
dotblanklike If I play h.264 the decoder might be buggy or slow10:52
achipadotblank: those that are HW accelerated10:52
jaemmikki-kun, naw, this was from makepkg - not something that gets logged10:52
dotblankachipa, on the n900.. Is it hardware accelerated.. if so then that would be much more ideal10:52
achipadotblank: the problem is that h264 has several profiles. If you try one that IS supported, cool. If not, it will suck.10:52
dotblankachipa, ah.. Which profiles?10:53
achipaso 'h264' alone means little10:53
mikki-kunhm.. well, logging everything would also be a lil cpu and io heavy ^^10:53
achipai think there is a thread on tmo where people experimented with this...10:53
achipain any case, baseline h264 with <=800x480 resolution should work10:55
jaemmikki-kun, was that directed at me?10:55
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mikki-kunjaem: yeah10:56
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mikki-kunhm... slowly my n900 will reach again it's former strength  and goes even beyond that ^^10:57
mikki-kun*currently reinstalling every packet*10:57
mikki-kunmade a blank install10:58
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achipadotblank: btw the 'demo' video that comes with the N900 is over 3000kbps (mp4), so bitrate is not really an issue if the format is okay for the DSP.10:59
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dotblankachipa, Thanks for your input10:59
mikki-kunjaem: just one thing... why is there then extras-devel available for the everyday user? i mean, some of the apps there are a lil "untouchy"11:00
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jaemmikki-kun, because hiding or restricting access to it would be entirely against the spirit of the project.11:02
mikki-kunbut just a lil contradicting with hiding pr1.2 ;)11:02
mikki-kunmy thinking at least11:02
jaemYes, it causes issues, but since everyone adds disclaimers to anything they say about -devel, and Nokia never says anything about it at all, and it's not added/enabled by default, Nokia doesn't take the fall if people are stupid.11:02
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jaemmikki-kun, I wish the update was developed in the Open too, but they are different issues.11:03
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jaemNokia making an official release with a "yeah, we know there are bugs - deal with them", is a heck of a lot different than allowing users easy access to third-party unstable software.11:03
DocScrutinizer51mikki-kun: there is no -devel available for everyday user11:03
jaemEspecially since the latter is merely a consequence of the system design, and not a purposeful action.11:04
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer51: i found the "how to add it" in less than 60 secs after powering up my browser11:04
DocScrutinizer51you need to add the catalog by yourself11:04
DocScrutinizer51so what??11:04
jaemanyhow, hold that though - I'll be right back after I restart the session and see how much I broke things ;)11:04
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fralsGAH WHY THE FUCK DOES THE /downloads/ PAGE RESET JEAOfgiwjhuiseh11:05
fralswhats the point of being able to edit if its reset whenever the package importer is run11:05
pupnikjaem continues to be right11:06
DocScrutinizer51mikki-kun: if you found the wiki page about extras-devel, then I assue you were able to readc the fat old warning there11:06
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DocScrutinizer51assume* and Bold11:07
mikki-kunwhich warning? :D somehow they always blank out in my brain ^^11:07
DocScrutinizer51so STFU11:07
mikki-kunnaw, just kidding... i know that devel can make my sys a lil problematic but i take the risk for bleeding-edge stuff11:08
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* Jaffa is dead.11:11
JaffaCompletely and utterly wiped out.11:11
tybollt_Oh, what happened?11:11
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* tybollt_ hands frals a big cup of CHILL THE FUCK OUT :)11:12
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jaemwell, if anyone ever woke up one morning and thought to themselves, "I wonder how well the Maemo Alpha theme would apply to Qt apps on a desktop machine?", fear not, for I have your answer!11:12
achipa~raise Jaffa11:12
* infobot raises Jaffa from the dead11:12
jaem..."Pretty badly"11:12
jaem*sigh* Well, that was a waste of time.11:13
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Jaffatybollt_: On day 9 of working week; working until 23:00 last night; and every night's been at least 20:00 the rest of the time.11:15
Jaffatybollt_: And then getting up for work at 06:00 the next day.11:15
tybollt_Jaffa: I hear you...11:16
* tybollt_ been through those weeks11:16
tybollt_spiced w/ on call callouts in the mid night11:16
achipawe here call that 'workwalking' (not sure how that translates to English... as in from moonwalking)11:16
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ccookeMorning, all11:23
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PhonicUKhey all11:36
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RST38hPR1.2 for Christmas 2010!11:36
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* RST38h hides11:37
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zaheermRST38h, you're very optimistic ;)11:37
RST38hOk. PR1.2 for Christmas 2011!11:37
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summel :)11:43
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tybollt_ja richtig - est intresiert NIEMAND11:44
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mintuxmy gprs connection doesn't list on my phone11:46
pupniki can't click on anything in that url summel  :(11:47
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summelpupnik: its just a screenshot :o11:48
* pupnik laughs11:48
pupnikwas someone making a google lattitude plugin for n900 btw?11:48
summelthe latitude webapp works afaik11:48
summelhavent tried it yet though11:48
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summel lol11:49
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mintuxwhere is gprs connection?11:49
aquatixsummel: great alt text too ;)11:50
summelyes :D11:50
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mintuxapn doesn't show in list of my connections  .how can I ensure grps is active?11:53
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* jhh123 new maemo user here ;p11:56
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hatake_kakashimintux, I'm presuming there's no APN setup for it, check under settings11:57
wutrjhh123: new too! just got my phone today11:58
wutrcharging right now to flash it later on11:58
summelwutr: why flash it? oO11:58
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summelit comes preinstalled oO11:59
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wutrI know, but it's a second hand device from someone who kinda screwed it over11:59
wutrbut no worries, if I flash it + emmc it's brand new again ;)12:00
wutrat least, I hope12:00
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summelwhats emmc?12:00
wutrlearned that myself yesterday: embedded MMC12:00
wutrit's where the device stores your data12:01
hatake_kakashipretty much that big 32GB12:01
wutrhome directory etc. sits in there12:01
wutrwow I'm making myself useful :D12:01
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wutrallright, rebooting now for "unsigned driver support" @ 7 64bit12:02
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jhh123wow, wutr was quick at messing around.12:12
meceaaaaahahaha this one made me lol:
viliny__This isn't a OC questions per-se so don't lynch me please ---> Anyone else notice the calibration tool to terminate abruptly after pressing first calibration point with the titan kernel? I can't think of anything else that has changed since i last ran it successfully.12:18
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pupniktitan kernel does not work with calibration.12:19
RST38hAnswer: Do not use Titan kernel12:19
RST38hUse the kernel your N900 has come with.12:19
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pupnikyes, only way to calibrate is boot to stock kernel, calibrate, then if you want, go back to the titan kernel12:20
wutrhow long for flasher to wait before a "suitable usb device" is found on windows 7 64bit?12:21
wutr(n900 is in flashing mode with the usb symbol showing)12:21
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pupnik  <<<< :) sfw12:25
mecepupnik, heee12:25
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fralsX-Fade: word on the street is you are working on something so maintainers can change package description through the packages interface, if you need a beta tester let me know ;)12:30
X-Fadefrals: That is in the works yes, needs some changes to the importer though.12:30
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pupnikit would be good if users could see what has changed in a new version12:31
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wutrhas anyone here flashed a N900 with win7, 64bit?12:34
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plastunhello! Can anybody help me with PannableArea and TextView?12:38
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pupnikgo ahead and ask your question plastun12:41
plastunok. When I trying to put TextView to PannableARea using add_with_viewport function, I just see top corner of TextView and no more12:42
plastunI want create About dialog like System->About product dialog12:42
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fralstheres a requestSize or something similar on pannablearea12:43
fralsif you set it to children_max or soemthing similar it should do the trick12:44
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fralscant remember exact names, but it should be in api docs12:44
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pupnikSIZE_REQUEST_MINIMUM The minimum size the widget could use to paint itself  ?12:44
plastunok, I'll try. thanks12:45
fralstis what i used at least :)12:45
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plastunhaha! works!!!12:48
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dnearyamigadave, Ping?12:58
amigadavedneary: pong12:58
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wutrCan I use any usb > microUSB cable to connect with my N900 btw?12:58
dnearyamigadave, Have a read of this:
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amigadavedneary: i agree :)12:59
dnearyAnd this:
* murrayc_ is tempted to ask what a help vampire is.12:59
dnearyWe need to be teaching Pallavi to help himself :)12:59
dnearymurrayc_, A person who's first reaction on seeing any kind of error is to ask "why am I getting this?" on a mailing list12:59
amigadavei guess next time i will provide more links12:59
ruskiehmm a hilight13:00
murrayc_dneary: I was joking. I am capable of clicking the links.13:00
dnearymurrayc_, Oh how droll.13:00
dnearymurrayc_, You should take up comedy. Everyone would go13:00
dnearyBut only once, they'd all die laughing.13:00
dnearyWay to go, killing off your audience13:00
murrayc_They would all chuckle knowingly and smugly.13:01
murrayc_Then there would be some jazz.13:01
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dnearymurrayc_, Nothing too accessible mind - you wouldn't want the dirty masses coming in13:02
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TomaszDgood news for PR1.2 "waiters"
povbotBug 9150: Device doesn't respond via UI. syslog reports HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered, sgx_misr eating all CPU13:09
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Wolfiebut that might be just another "it really should come now", which we have heard about for a good while now13:10
mikki-kunboah, goddamit, i freaking hate the file-explorer which comes with the n900 -.- *waiting for the nautilus-port*13:10
TomaszDWolfie, yeah but this is a fresh "it really should come now"13:11
`0660"It should really come soon now (within weeks, not month(s)), it's been13:11
`0660post-poned too much already.13:11
TomaszDthis subtly suggest 2-3 weeks13:12
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`0660i though that has been the estimate for a couple of months now :)13:12
achipa2 weeks is the PR1.2 pandora clock offset13:12
TomaszDyeah, but *this* time it's true13:12
Stskeeps"we have sent PR1.2 code in a binary stream to the past. Please be at the execution of some random guy around year 33 to receive it"13:12
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Trewasif it's not released before mid of june, then it will have to wait until august anyway as entirety of finland is on vacation after midsummer :)13:13
`0660good point13:13
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achipayeah, well, I got a handful of "just around the corner"s from Nokia people yesterday on the NMDF13:14
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* achipa wonders if he should have asked for that particular corner to be shown to him13:14
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MohammadAGUSB F-F adapter arrived \o/13:24
Corsacayanes: it's “around the corner” by “really informed people” since way too much time to give any more credit13:24
Corsacit'll be released when it's released, no time indication is trustable now13:24
ayanesCorsac what are you talking about ?13:25
Corsacayanes: I just mis-tabbed achipa :)13:26
ayanesOki ;)13:26
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achipaCorsac: that what I was referring to in my second 'wondering' line, I might have been too subtle :)13:29
Corsacyeah, well, I just didn't read it :)13:30
achipaCorsac: on a side note Nokia already broke their own global roadmap timeline with it, so...13:30
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: f-f. Hawt.13:34
SpeedEvil(if you enable PSUs on both sides)13:34
murrayc_I really don't care. But the karma #1 is amusing right now:
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murrayc_Due to thousands of ltt thanks.13:36
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murrayc_Probably automated.13:36
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achipaThanked 1,936 Times in 1,161 Posts  ?13:38
adeuswhat is that13:38
achipahell, I have more than that :)13:38
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SpeedEvilIsn't there a sqrt() in there somewhere?13:38
SpeedEvilThat looks more like a bug13:39
lcukmurrayc_, do you know why?13:39
lcukif not, explanation here:
murrayc_Oh, I thought it was him thanking other people. YOu mean he's _been_ thanked that many times? Wow13:41
X-FadeI guess there was a glitch in the calculation, as ot is ok now.13:42
murrayc_oh yeah13:42
murrayc_500000 or so did seem unlikely.13:43
lcukX-Fade, you mean the could of extra thanks rolled round the longint back into positive values ;)13:43
lcukthe couple13:43
murrayc_Unthanked to <0?13:43
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lcukmurrayc_, yeah that looks like the bug, somehow the thanks calculation was thrown off13:49
lcukits the only real time you see 4,294 million ;)13:49
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MohammadAGumm, suggestion for tmo13:55
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MohammadAGchinese forum :p13:57
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RST38hMohammad: I have a better suggestion14:02
RST38hMohammad: Let us autotranslate every "N900 sucks" thread into Chinese, then delete English original14:03
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tybollt_RST38h: silly - lots of people know chinese these days... go for Thai... noone outside Thailand understands/speaks/writes thai ;P14:04
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RST38htybollt: Judging from some "N900 sucks" posts, I have doubts the posters even know English14:05
RST38h(and no, I do not mean ESL people)14:05
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tybollt_RST38h: :-D14:06
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Stskeepsheh, i just took my n900 of a serial jig and the yellow led is still on (usb cable connected)14:15
SpeedEvilStskeeps: do you happen to have the pinout of this? Does it have all of the gold pads connected?14:16
Stskeepsnfi, it's a box14:16
SpeedEvilI mean - how many probes does it have that stick onto the board14:17
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viliny__pupnik: okay that answered my question about calibration pretty well - anyone know _why_ it doesn't work though?14:19
viliny__Out of morbid curiosity14:19
pupnikit is in some t.m.o thread - i am guessing the kernel module for screen calibration isnt opensourced14:20
Stskeepsentire kernel plus modules is oss14:20
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TermanaPlus, theres no kernel module that participates in the calibration. Theres the touchscreen driver, but calibration isn't in it - its in userspace14:23
Termanaviliny__, open source software14:23
viliny__Termana: thanks, thought that but got 1 s to maany14:23
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viliny__hmm, so wonder what the problem is again14:26
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Arkenoiis titan's 32 kernel considered stable?14:34
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hrwArkenoi: I removed his kernels yesterday14:40
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hrwas one of latest ones killed sound14:40
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Arkenoi27 was rock solid14:41
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hrwI would rather go for own kernels instead14:42
MohammadAGthe 28 non-bme one killed my N90014:43
MohammadAGhad to reflash the stock kernel14:43
Stskeeps.. non-bme?14:43
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MohammadAGbad wording14:45
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MohammadAGis there any way to unpack a zImage14:52
mgedminunpack in what sense?14:53
mgedminare you sure you don't mean "unpack initrd.img"?14:54
StskeepsMohammadAG: run the uncompression code in the start of it ;p14:55
MohammadAGmgedmin, no, as in decompile it14:56
MohammadAGStskeeps, lolwut14:56
Stskeepswikipedia: Traditionally, when creating a bootable kernel image, the kernel is also compressed using the zlib algorithm, or since Linux 2.6.30[1], using LZMA or BZIP2, which requires a very small decompression stub to be included in the resulting image. The stub decompresses the kernel code, on some systems printing dots to the console to indicate progress, and then continues the boot process.14:57
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TuukkaJust got a new dataplan. Ack, 3g surfing is eating my battery alive15:00
andemoniin qt, if i've got a top-level QScrollArea that contains a somewhat complex layout and then a QTextBrowser inside of it, what is the correct way to make the text browser report its document's full size to the layout?15:02
SpeedEvilWhat are the prerequisites for getting video out on. I plugged in the composite out cable, and ... ?15:02
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lcukSpeedEvil, it should just work15:03
SpeedEvilhmm - maybe it requires a load - I was trying to hook up a scope15:03
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tybollt_SpeedEvil: ? just w/ the normal cable, nothing fancy like over usb?15:04
tybollt_SpeedEvil: then just _plug it in_15:04
tybollt_what I did15:04
SpeedEvilyeah - I did that - no video out on any pins15:04
SpeedEvilon any connector15:04
SpeedEvilI need to find my SCART->phono adaptor - it's been a while15:05
tybollt_that sounds awfully much like either of cable or plug is KAPUT15:05
tybollt_sorry :-/15:05
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mintuxI have media mount in /media but in file manager I don't have access to it . what should I do ?15:16
Surfaadd yourself to correct group?15:16
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mintuxI should do that with command line ?15:17
mintuxno I do nothing15:18
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ManoftheSeadoesn't file manager only look in MyDocs?15:19
MohammadAGMyDocs and /media/mmc115:19
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mintuxMohammadAG: yes I have both of them but in file manger just a icon nokia n900 and the contents of it /home/user/MyDocs15:21
odin_mintux, what kind of media is it ?  MMC card ?  so /media/mmc1 is the mount point ?15:21
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ShapeshifterSo, is there no way of having a scrollable widget on the desktop?15:21
mintuxjust /media/mmc115:21
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ShapeshifterI don't understand that design decision at all. horizontal sliding changes desktops, why not allow vertical scrolling...15:22
mintuxthat show a icon when open filemanger called nokia n900 and the contents of that is /home/user/MyDocs15:22
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mintuxodin_:  ^15:22
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odin_Shapeshifter, you can vertically slide within your widget, but not the desktops15:22
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E0xsome python ppl here ?15:23
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odin_mintux, I have 2 icons "Nokia N900" which is /home/user/MyDocs and "Memory card" which is /media/mmc115:24
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mintuxI don't have memory card15:24
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odin_well there you go then!15:24
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Shapeshifterodin_: it is possible? oh :O15:25
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mintuxwhat shall I do?15:25
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Shapeshifterodin_: any widgets that use this?15:25
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odin_Shapeshifter, the RSS viewer has buttons to scroll page up and down, Ive not seen anything with "scroll bars" which is what I think you mean, but I cant see why you cant have them15:25
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odin_mintux, how did you mount your memory card, maybe if you start at the beggining and explain how you "customized your own N900 to mount a media not at the default location /media/mmc1"15:26
Shapeshifterodin_: nah I mean a vertical kinetic scrolling15:26
odin_Shapeshifter, kinetic scrolling only works for full page stuff, it is not something that works for a sub-window or sub-part of a page15:27
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mintuxodin_: it mounted . I didn't nothing for mount . I have access with shell15:27
odin_Shapeshifter, i.e. it only works like that since it would be bad design otherwise!15:27
Stskeeps /g w00t15:27
Shapeshifterodin_: what do you mean by that? all the dialogs have it. any scrollable area has it, except the pdf viewer basically15:27
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odin_mintux, so where is the mount point ? and did it mount it with the options "uid=29999" so the default user owns all the files15:27
w00t_/smack Stskeeps15:28
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mintuxw8 check it15:28
Stskeeps /molest w00t_15:28
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odin_Shapeshifter, what dialogs ?  oh you mean the _FULL_PAGE_ modal dialogs yeah sure they do, but remember the full page part of my info above15:28
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Shapeshifterodin_: and why would it be a bad design?15:29
odin_mintux, you can type "mount -v" to see options or "cat /proc/mounts"15:29
AEnima1577gthopiekar, you around?15:29
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odin_Shapeshifter, well who wants part of the screen to be "kinnnetically scrolling" and how do I change focus as to what kinnetically scrolls, when I want another part/window to scroll instead, there is just no UI precedent for it15:29
odin_Shapeshifter, which is why I say its a facet of gesture driven UI for full-screen UI compomenets, be it a browser or a full-page modal dialog or a full page something else15:30
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Shapeshifterodin_: mh? do you know the mpc client for example? mmpc15:31
odin_Shapeshifter, no I don't think I do15:31
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SpeedEvilodin_: scroll buttons are a sane precedent15:31
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mintuxodin_: it's output of cat /proc... also I didn't see any device mount in /media/mcc1 in fstab15:31
SpeedEvilodin_: up/down on the keyboard wil scroll the currently selected window element in most cases.15:32
odin_Shapeshifter, Im sure its "progrmatically possible" but does it work well within the context of use ?  you are claiming that you want kinetic scrolling for one widgets on the main desktop, I'm not sure I agree thats a good idea, but happy to have a try if someone implements it15:32
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Shapeshifterodin_: mh. well, anyway, why shouldn't any scrollable area have kinetic scrolling? as in, imagine some buttons on the left, and a list widget on the right. why shouldn't it be possible to scroll the list widget?15:32
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SpeedEvilThe desktop is also conceptually different to other things.15:32
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Shapeshifterodin_: well imo it would make perfect sense. just imagine the rss widget not have these buttons but instead a scrollable area. up/down gesture inside the widget scrolls it, left/right widget inside or outside the widget changes desktops.15:33
odin_Shapeshifter, because its the desktop/home screen and it already has a superceeding kinetic action, the switch desktop function, if your widget hijacks it, how does the user flips nicely between the two (intuitively?)15:33
Shapeshifterodin_: up/down, left/right15:33
odin_mintux, your /media/mmc1 is not mounted, so there is your problem, what filesystem is the card?  is it formatted?15:34
Shapeshifterodin_: up/down isn't needed on the desktop at all as the desktops are ligned up horizontally15:34
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odin_Shapeshifter, up/down/left/right what ? huh...  left/right is taken15:34
Shapeshifterso why not use it for widget interaction15:34
mintuxodin_:no I didn't touch it15:34
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Shapeshifterodin_: left/right finger swiping. yes. it's taken to change desktops. but up/down swiping is wasted.15:34
odin_Shapeshifter, what happens when my home screen has 3 of these widgets on it, how do I flip focus and then unfocus to get desktop focus to flip desktops, these are all UI issues15:35
mintuxodin_: how can I find out system file of that ?15:35
SpeedEvilodin_: widgets scroll vertically only15:35
odin_mintux, have you rebooted the phone to see if it comes back ?  can you manually mount it ?  "mount /media/mmc1"15:35
SpeedEvilodin_: Or you have to pick an area of the desktop without a widget - like you do already in some menus to scroll tehm15:35
SpeedEvilmintux: You do have the back cover on?15:35
Shapeshifterodin_: you don't need to "switch" focus at all. if you swipe vertically, the desktop ignores this (i.e. the event gets passed down to the widget), if you swipe horizontally, the event gets consumed by the desktop for changing desktops.15:36
odin_mintux, you do have an extra MMC card installed yet ?  you opened the back, too the battery out and installed a supplemental MMC card right ?  what size?15:36
Shapeshifterodin_: I mean, just go to your n900 desktop right now, and swipe the finger up and down. what happens? Nothing. - well, it wobbles a bit to the left and right maybe but you see that this gesture is wasted.15:36
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mintuxodin_: no I didn't input any card. im talking about 32 GB15:37
mintuxI have access with terminal in /media/mmc115:37
mintuxand I can create file on it15:37
odin_Shapeshifter, I still fail to see how it can be used well with a widget, sure I can understand having 9 desktops with more on up/down (if the user wants that) but not having it relate to something else, as in left/right = desktop, up/down = widget (this is not intuative, if you ask me)15:37
mintuxno it said premssion denied when I want to mkdir on it15:38
mintuxbut with shell only15:38
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mintuxI can write on it15:38
ManoftheSeawhy isn't it intuitive?15:38
odin_mintux, LOLs!  the EMMC the 32Gb is /home/user/MyDocs and that is the icon "Nokia N900"15:38
ManoftheSeaIf I had an RSS reader, I'd want to scroll up and down to see additional items15:38
Shapeshifterodin_: why on earth?? if you have an android mobile at hand, try the rss widget. same thing there. left/right changes desktops, up/down scrolls inside the rss widget. it's so obvious15:38
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mintuxso why I can't see the contents of /media/mcc1 in filemanager?15:39
ManoftheSeaIf anything, the up/down at the bottom are nonintuitive15:39
odin_mintux, your /proc/mount already has it mounted, type "df" to see the storage space and mount points (from shell), around 28Gb is /home/user/MyDocs since /home and swapspace also exist out of the 32Gb15:39
ManoftheSeaup/down are next to each other.15:39
Shapeshifterodin_: totally intuitive if you ask me. and what about the 9 desktops? How is this related? I'm not talking about stacking desktops vertically (as in having a 3x3 desktop or something) but vertical scrolling *inside* widgets on the desktop.15:39
ManoftheSeammc1 is the added card.15:39
odin_mintux, because you don't have a /media/mmc1 (in order to have one of those, you need to buy and additionao MMC card and take the battery out and install it in the free/empty slot) for example my N900 has 32Gb+16Gb+256Mb of total storage15:40
viliny__mintux, you are using /media/mmc1 and you don't have a physical card inserted into the phone?15:40
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ManoftheSeammc0, maybe?15:40
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mintuxviliny__: no just 32gb itself15:40
ManoftheSeaodin_: the mmc slot isn't behind the battery15:41
odin_no the EMMC the 32Gb you get by default is /dev/mmcblkXpX check "df" and "df -h" (if you want pretty numbers)15:41
GAN900dneary, ping?15:41
ManoftheSeaIt's inside the back, but you don't have to turn off to get access15:41
viliny__mintux: as far i understand it the /media/mmc1 is just a folder - when you mount a memory card then that becomes it's entry point15:41
viliny__at other times i guess it's just the internal memory...15:41
mintuxviliny__: so why it doesn't show in file manager?15:41
ManoftheSeathat's silly15:42
odin_ManoftheSea, maybe you right its been 6 months since I installed mine and might be confused with E7215:42
ManoftheSeathe SIM is behind the batt15:42
ManoftheSeaFile Manager doesn't access at /15:42
viliny__mintux, are you asking why a card that you didn't not insert into the phone doesn't show up in the file manager?15:42
ManoftheSeait accesses at MyDocs15:42
dnearyGAN900, Pong15:42
viliny__didn't/did not15:42
ManoftheSeawhich is /home/user/MyDocs15:42
odin_viliny__, yes, that appears to be what he is asking, lols!15:42
dnearyGAN900, What can I do you for?15:42
mintuxI just video clips or documents that is /home/user/MyDocs/.documents15:42
viliny__mintux: where are you from?15:43
odin_along the same lines, can someone tell me why PR1.3 features are not working on my N900?  please help me !!  no wait....15:43
MohammadAG~seen t-tan15:43
ManoftheSeamintux is cool and doesn't afraid of anything15:43
infobott-tan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 19h 7m ago, saying: 'has anybody already tried this ?'.15:43
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hrw-laptopodin_: still have problems with 1.3?15:44
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mintuxI can't understand MyDocs is 32 Gb but when I put some file's on it I can see it in file manager15:44
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ShapeshifterAny clues what happened to qt4-maemo5-homescreen-example from -devel?15:44
ManoftheSeaMyDocs isn't 32G15:44
Shapeshifterit's gone.15:44
viliny__mintux: you can see what in file manager exactly?15:45
ManoftheSea /home is ~28Gigs15:45
odin_mintux, the folder /home/user/MyDocs/.documents is where the USB Mass Storage mounts isn't it ?15:45
ManoftheSeaand MyDocs is under it.15:45
viliny__mintux: why are you messing around with stuff like that without understand the basics?15:45
viliny__goddamnit, UNDERSTANDING - my spelling is atrocious today15:45
odin_well strictly speaking /home is an EXT3 filesystem of around 2Gb, and /home/user/MyDocs is a 28.25Gb file system which is VFAT the remaining 768Mb is swap15:46
mintuxodin_: viliny__: every thing is in filemanger are .<folder name> in /home/user/Mydocs15:46
odin_this makes 32Gb as in 32GB not 32GiB15:46
mintuxbut when I get ls from /media/mcc1 nothing there15:46
ManoftheSeaodin_: oh.  Good to know in a pedantic sense15:46
ManoftheSeamintux: that's because there is NOTHING THERE15:47
ManoftheSeayou said you haven't put in a mmc115:47
odin_mintux, go to a shop and buy a 16Gb MMC card, then insert it inside the back covert, then try to use /media/mmc115:47
viliny__mintux: /media/mcc1 is the mounting point for the memory card - you don't have a card hence it is in fact EMPTY15:47
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ManoftheSeahold on, someone help me a sec.  is it mmc1 or mcc1?15:47
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odin_dont do accidentally filling up /media/mmc1 since you will fill your root-fs and then you will be in trouble15:48
odin_maybe linux should put a quota in place on that one!15:48
viliny__oh heh, it uses rootfs... yeah don't fill that15:48
viliny__thanks for the details of the filesystem structure odin_ , that made some stuff clearer to me15:49
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ManoftheSeawell, that's just normal linux, right?15:49
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ManoftheSeaIt's a folder on the mount until something else mounts over it.15:50
viliny__mintux: so basicly, mydocs IS NOT /media/mmc115:50
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viliny__and if you're trolling then bravo15:50
ManoftheSeayeah, I had that thought too.15:50
MohammadAGumm, how do I use USB networking?15:50
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dnearyGAN900, Ping?15:51
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odin_ManoftheSea, its /media/mmc1 which is device file /dev/mmcblk1p115:51
dnearyNot sure you've been getting my /msges15:51
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MohammadAG<mintux> but when I get ls from /media/mcc1 nothing there15:51
ManoftheSeaodin_: ok.  We've been playing a little loose with the misspellings, and I wanted to confirm.15:52
odin_MohammadAG, USB networking ?  as in hook it upto a PC to be able to use the PC hosts internet ?15:52
ManoftheSeaTo be able to make IP connections on a network of two15:52
odin_doesn't the whole Nokia PC Suite use PPP over USB ?  then IP over that ?15:52
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ManoftheSeaI thought it was PC Suite too15:53
MohammadAGodin_, no, SSH over USB15:53
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odin_MohammadAG, SSH ?  one stream or multiple (as in port forwarding/tunnelling) ?  also why does USB need "security" ?15:54
viliny__can the phone piggyback on host connection via usb?15:54
ShapeshifterI can't git clone on my n900. It doesn't download anything, here's the output: The error is "git: 'index-pack' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'." Any clues?15:54
ManoftheSeassh over usb?15:54
ManoftheSeaThat's ssh over ip over ppp over usb15:54
mgedminwhy ppp?15:55
odin_ok so there is still the PPP so any IP based services can be setup to work15:55
odin_to multiplex I guess15:56
odin_PPP is a good basis to achieve that15:56
viliny__thanks a bunch MohammadAG15:56
mgedminwell, ppp is used for 3g connectivity, I suppose15:56
mgedminbut pure USB networking between host and N900 doesn't use it15:56
odin_yes a single device can have multiple PPP links up, one over USB, one over 3G, one for IPSEC, etc...15:57
ManoftheSeaalright, I thought it was PPP.15:57
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ManoftheSeaDon't base anything on me, then.15:57
MohammadAGviliny__, I pasted that for odin_15:57
MohammadAGnp anyways :P15:57
viliny__MohammadAG: and thanks regardless :)15:58
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odin_which reminds me, now that MMS is stable to re look at the issues with multiple PPPs being up, at the moment the WLAN link has to come down when the 3G is up, this is uneccessary!15:58
hrw-laptopodin_: tell it to nokia15:59
hrw-laptopodin_: they will reply: will be fixed in harmattan and you will have same situation as you have15:59
odin_and very undesirable for doing MMS, Linux fully supports "IP policy routing" which allows the MMS channel to have a lower priority routing and private network independently of the main default route for IP15:59
ManoftheSeasame situation?15:59
hrw-laptopManoftheSea: yes - software will be same16:00
odin_however when it comes to WLAN + 3G at the same time, the user has to pick which is their default route, I think a global option should do the trick16:00
ManoftheSeadefault route?16:00
odin_linux supports 2 default routes or 3 (WLAN/3G/USB)16:00
odin_yes the default route is the network interface regarded by the system as being its link to the internet16:01
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ManoftheSeaoh.  I guess... why would you not want to use the WLAN as the default, assuming you've already chosen to connect ot it.16:01
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odin_maybe WLAN doesn't have internet connectivity, but does have a printer ?16:01
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ManoftheSeahmm, yes, I begin to see the complexity16:02
odin_or file server or business application service16:02
hrw-laptopor internal network16:02
ManoftheSeaBut similarly, if you have a VPN over your WLAN, the WLAN doesn't have inet but VPN does...16:02
odin_it is not acctuallty "a complex problem" nor is the solution "complex"16:02
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ManoftheSeathen your default route has to be over the tunnel16:02
ManoftheSeanot terribly complex.  But you're not going to try to explain to your grandma, are you?16:03
MohammadAGviliny__, if you get it to work do you mind helping out? :)16:03
odin_just a couple of new global user settings and a patch to the internet daemon service and the necessary infrastrcture changes ( to the routing setup/teardown scripting)16:03
MohammadAGI can't seem to be able to ssh16:03
MohammadAGand ifup fails16:03
odin_yes I can make it simple and that is the key16:03
viliny__MohammadAG: i don't think i'm going to tackle this right now - at work at the moment :)16:04
odin_make MMC and standard (non-routable) PC Suite have lower priority route (so they always work independalty of anything else)16:04
MohammadAGoh ok :)16:04
odin_then you are left with 3 choices of default route selection: WLAN/3G/PC-Suite(USB)  you just set a priority order as to which you want16:05
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ManoftheSeahmm.  I see it, that seems reasonable.16:05
odin_then you make everything work independently of everything else around all that, as I say the only contention is the "default route" selection16:05
ManoftheSeaThen if you do the VPN, you rely on the VPN scripts.16:05
odin_opps.. I said "MMC" I meant "MMS" because MMS and WAP over GPRS/3G is a special case of a "walled garden" which usually doesn't have or need a default route to work16:06
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odin_well VPN is another matter altogether, bus you just make them select whichever default route exists and it setup in global preferences, make sure they also don't interfere with the "system" networking (except though defined interfaces/methods)16:07
Stskeepsmorn javispedro16:07
plastunis it possible to show html-content in hildon.TextView widget?16:07
ManoftheSeayeah, I don't see a reason you'd want to VPN default routes.16:08
ManoftheSeaUsually, you VPN in, rather than out.16:08
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odin_well I am happy that kernel 20100903 is building how long did they fix that fraico-gen dependancy ?16:08
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javispedroand you could build the kernel fine previously,16:09
hrw-laptopunless you wlan to corp internal network which has router with vpn server and out-of-corp link is only for vpn users16:09
javispedroonly you couldn't create the on-device flashing package16:09
odin_yeah with work arounds / kludges but it was one of them things, "Hey Nokia, do your job!"16:09
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satmdcall me stupid... but how can I reset the missed calls counter?16:09
hrw-laptopManoftheSea: what do you think about such combo?16:09
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javispedroStskeeps: btw, how do you think mbxdaemon gets access to dispc registers? it only mmaps stuff from /dev/mbxaccess16:10
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odin_ManoftheSea, I would think for a mobile device you are the Road Warrior end, connecting back to base, so you definitely need a working default route (but VPN software should be calling on other services like internet-connection-daemon to provide it)16:10
javispedro(also, I couldn't break into Flip :( mbxdaemon doesn't like being interrupted)16:11
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ManoftheSeaI missed some of that.16:11
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Stskeepsjavispedro: mmapping them in, it says pretty directly in the functions it has16:12
ManoftheSeahrw-laptop: yeah, I could imagine a case for VPN to get out.  But you probably aren't on 3G at the same time, and can add the default route as part of the VPN scripts16:12
Stskeepsthere's on called "mmapfbregs"16:12
Stskeepsor something16:12
ManoftheSeaodin_: then the default route is on your first connection, not over the VPN.  You don't need to adjust the default route16:12
fralsassumption is the mother of all fuck ups16:13
Stskeepsjavispedro: at this point i'm pondering if we should just disassemble the libs, modify flip, reassemble16:14
odin_ManoftheSea, huh?  a VPN does not usually provide the default route (I really don't get why WinXP by default has an option "Use default route on remote gateway" when the majority of users don't want that!)16:14
ManoftheSeasure.  It's nice to not break the border cases.16:14
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javispedroStskeeps: I personally think that we'd be better by replacing them. That lib is doing way too much stuff, as fanoush said, we shouldn't even be touching dispc registers at all. we want a pure memory solution.16:14
ManoftheSeaodin_: I agree.16:14
javispedroStskeeps: maybe even girish could give us a pure binary memory-only solution?16:15
odin_ManoftheSea, a VPN usually provides a point-to-point or sub-net route over an existing network (usually that network is the Internet and therefore requires a "default route" to work)16:15
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Stskeepsjavispedro: i wonder if we can actually replace it with ease..16:15
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javispedroStskeeps: well you've at least enlightened me with the fact that it's similar in structure to the kernel omaplcd16:15
Stskeepsit looks like the non-ripped out parts, yes16:16
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Stskeepsand the ripped out parts16:16
crashanddieodin_: depends on the implementation16:17
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crashanddieodin_: Juniper's implementation just needs an initial tunnel, which gives you a virtual network adapter to the endpoint network (typically a 192.168/24 network) and you can change the default routes onces it's up16:18
* javispedro ponders if mbxaccess ' mmap allows mmaping of any memory area16:18
infobotcrashanddie meant: odin_: Juniper's implementation just needs an initial tunnel, which gives you a virtual network adapter to the endpoint network (typically a 192.168/24 network) and you can change the default routes once it's up16:18
ManoftheSeacrashanddie: but when would you want to do that?16:19
odin_hmm... how do you get routing to the "initial tunnel" if that is on another network ?16:19
Stskeepsjavispedro: knowing imtec, it would not surprise me.16:19
ManoftheSeaif you're on the inside of the network, generally you don't VPN out.16:19
crashanddieManoftheSea: when you want to route all of your data to that VPN16:19
MohammadAGjavispedro, o/16:19
odin_all VPNs work that way, they just require the IP address of the other endpoint, factors such an method, encryption type, authentication are all optional16:19
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javispedromorning MohammadAG16:20
odin_but you must have a default route (for the majority of cases where road warriors use the Internet to get to the VPN endpoint, the mother-ship)16:20
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ManoftheSeacrashanddie: I'm not understanding the use case where all the data needs to go that way.16:21
odin_very few folks hook upto a private/limited network (that has a single or handful) of accessible subnets on it, witht he VPN endpoint being within that, who then require a default route our of that environment (provided by the VPN) to use the internet16:21
ManoftheSeaSure, it's possible.16:21
ManoftheSeaBut as a 90% solution, just don't break the edge cases.16:22
crashanddieManoftheSea: say I'm on a big network, my ip address on that network is 10.0.0.x, but the routing table also allows to find 192.168.x. I VPN to my company which gives me a 192.168.144.x address, and my company's network is all on the 192.168.x range. If I don't change the default route, most of my request to internal networks (over the VPN), will go to the local network I'm connected to. I thus need to switch the default route16:22
ManoftheSeacrashanddie: if the table allows you to go from one non-routable to another... isn't that already wrong?16:22
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crashanddieno, not at all16:23
crashanddienot routable just means not publicly routable, how you do it behind your switches is your problem16:24
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ManoftheSeabut you don't want to change the default route, in your case.16:24
ManoftheSeaYou want to create a route for 192.168.x16:24
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crashanddieno, I need to change the default route16:24
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ManoftheSeawhy the default?16:25
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crashanddiebecause I didn't want any of my traffic to go to the local network16:25
crashanddieanyway, gotta run to the bank16:26
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ManoftheSeaOk, I guess if you're on a hostile network, and you want to go to your home net to protect your traffic...16:27
ManoftheSeaThat sorta makes sense.16:27
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satmdand/or which sip header does asterisk check for callerid?16:28
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odin_Stskeeps, what is the state of play with bootloading ?  i.e. kexec, still broken ?16:32
Stskeepsmeego-dev has my latest status on that16:32
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odin_found a May 17 post, when youi talk of "meego" are you using some kind of meego base platform ?  or is it still maemo ?16:35
RurouniJonesMeego is the Nokia/Intel combined linux16:35
RurouniJoneswhich isn't out yet on the N90016:36
odin_I want to keep eMMC as-is (maemo) but can do anything with 16Gb MMC (like put meego root on it)16:36
RurouniJonesThe N900 is currently Maemo and *might* have a version of meego as far as I know16:36
odin_RurouniJones, yes thanks for that but not what Im asking, I'm interested to know what those working towards "meego" are currently using as environment16:36
javispedropupnik: wow, impressive plot.16:36
Stskeepsodin_: may 17 is most recent status16:37
Stskeepsodin_: the MMC problem may be because of a bad sd card though16:37
RurouniJonesodin_: You mean what meego is based off of/16:37
* javispedro wonders why the weird interaction with cycles16:37
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odin_Stskeeps, so if I member correctly you have an N900 ? (just one or mode?) but no ARM prototype board (as too poor / no funding)16:37
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pupnikheh fast u are, javispedro16:38
pupniknothing weird - need explanation?16:38
javispedrodoom is not very CPU exigent?16:38
Stskeepsodin_: i have a N900, a zoom2 and a bunch of arm systems16:38
javispedro(rephrase) doom does not really that much CPU?16:38
ManoftheSeaMan, I'd have said intensive.16:39
ManoftheSeaOn the other hand, I learned a word today16:39
ManoftheSeanot that I can pronounce it, so I'll look silly in conversation.16:39
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pupnikthere is a mix of fixed-time stuff that needs to be done, and variable-time stuff that needs to be done, per-frame16:39
pupnikthat yields such a graph - i forgot my maths to explain16:40
Stskeepsodin_: you're welcome to show up at the meego-n900 meeting tomorrow and ask some questions, or hang out in #meego-arm16:40
pupnikyou know realtiks and doom right16:40
pupnikanyway now i have the batch file to compare performance between various gcc flags - javispedro when i use your debian/rules, it compiles for arm1136j - i don't think that's what we want16:40
ManoftheSeahigher frame rate gives faster movement speed, right?16:40
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odin_s/mode/more/  so those working on a meego (or with kernel and rootfs changes) are doing that how ?   I have N900 but am itching to get a prototype board (there was a better one than beagle I found somewhere for ok money), my N900 is not my primary phone so can reflashable (but not brickable!)16:41
javispedropupnik: yes but I was expecting a certain number of cycles upon which reducing cycles it goes progressively slower16:41
javispedromaybe that magic number is << 100016:41
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Stskeepsodin_: beagle is about as close you get, or a zoom216:41
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pupnikoh realtiks = frame time -- that is getting faster as the graph gets lower16:41
pupnikmaybe i should invert it (1/realtiks)16:41
Stskeepsodin_: i work on meego with my n900 and to some extent, my n81016:41
Stskeeps(i have xfce4 and meego runing on it)16:42
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odin_N900 is my first device, since until they put at GSM module in it, it was never a device I wanted (waited ~4 years for them to "get it")16:42
tybollt_Stskeeps: o_O 81016:42
javispedropupnik: it should build to armv7-a+neon if you build it under fremantle sbox with "vfp" not in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS16:42
Stskeepstybollt_: yes, i am not kidding with the n8x0 hardware adaptation thread16:43
javispedroa bit weird but this is true in the autobuilder16:43
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tybollt_Stskeeps: not read it, url?16:43
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javispedropupnik: I'd be more interesting in getting the ARM "full" (not Thumb) JIT cpu working16:43
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javispedropupnik: as Thumb seems to be deadly slow on the N900 seems16:43
pupnikah ok16:44
Stskeepsjavispedro: thumb is not recommended on n90016:44
Stskeepsie, it should be disabled16:44
javispedroyes, that's what I heard :)16:44
odin_I just hope Nokia get the next phase which is not so much "meego" but more, lets have 3 handsets based on whatever, a budget one, a mono-block one and a flagship one16:44
tybollt_Stskeeps: Molto grazie16:44
pupnikwell i want one such graph for different build options and cpu speeds16:44
pupnikbut time... is up for 2day\16:44
javispedro0.74 released!16:45
javispedroI wonder if they improved the arm jit..16:45
javispedrodoesn't seem to be as per changelog...16:45
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pupnikif you want, i will run these tests with other build cflags or cpu speeds - at least a handful16:46
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Stskeepstybollt_: that said, we have to wait for 1.0 to really start the work16:46
pupnikjust PM me whatever line you want, i overrode RULES cflags on that16:47
odin_as like Blackberry/E6x/E7x/E72 style16:47
javispedropupnik: i've never get any tangible performance increase from most gcc cflags I've ever seen...16:47
ManoftheSeaa bar phone?16:47
javispedromaybe -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions helps with code size..16:48
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tybollt_Stskeeps: why is that?16:48
Stskeepstybollt_: i can build images with ARM extras cos of team membership atm and it isn't exported publically :/16:49
Stskeeps(silly silly)16:49
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* javispedro really worries about moving bug reports for propietary nokia components16:53
Stskeepsto where?16:53
javispedroqgil suggested nokia pilots16:53
Stskeepswell, better than /dev/null, like, brainstorm16:53
javispedronever used nokia pilots, so :)16:54
andre__I have no clue what that is.16:54
Stskeepstexrat mentioned it at some point16:54
andre__having,, nokia's internal bugtracker, an upstream qt bugtracker, and nokia pilots makes me feel kind of.... "lost"?16:54
* javispedro thinks this would be much easier if we kept the maemo brand and meego acted as maemo upstream16:55
Stskeepsthe harmattan rebrand is a bit of a oddity, yes16:55
tybollt_it IS being rebranded?16:56
tybollt_Stskeeps: do spill, sir16:56
Stskeepsit's called meego, isn't it?16:56
Stskeepswithout being true meego, just a meego instance16:56
tybollt_I thought they'd run in paralell (Or so I was told ~month ago)16:56
tybollt_aaah olrite16:57
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ShapeshifterHow do I get root rights inside a shell in easy-debian?16:57
tybollt_Stskeeps: so a maemo w/ a meego sticker on it, in reality?16:57
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Shapeshifternvm sudo su16:59
onefishis there any way to access fm transmitter with cli?16:59
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tybollt_to what question? :)17:00
javispedroonefish's :)17:00
onefishjavispedro, care to explain how? :)17:01
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ShapeshifterHas someone tried a full-upgrade in easy-debian? :>17:01
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javispedroor if you want to bypass nokia's propietary middleware, use v4l directly (but no binaries on device can do that, you'll have to build/port one)17:02
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onefishjavispedro, thanks!17:05
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* pupnik plays with ipod touch and is amazed how people spend money for "no buttons"17:13
javispedrocapacitive screen -- eeek17:14
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javispedrothis reminds me of the joggler17:14
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ManoftheSeawhat's wrong with "no buttons"?17:14
hrwpupnik: do s/ipod touch/ipad mini/ and you will get xtra chicks17:14
ManoftheSeaas long as you're only trying to do a few things...17:14
GAN900What are we going to do when the N900+1 comes out? :(17:14
pupnikhope for many buttons17:15
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hrwGAN900: same as usual - complain and then lot of users will switch17:15
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GAN900hrw, that doesn't help ME, though.17:16
X-FadeAnybody perhaps know what causes this?17:16
X-Fadeaclocal: 43: macro `AM_PROG_CC_C_O' not found in library17:16
X-Fade4 versions of automake installed, but still no luck ;)17:17
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mintuxwe can not install meboo)new version of maemo) on n900?17:17
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hrwmintux: first they have to release something17:18
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dnearyJaffa, Ping?17:19
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ManoftheSeamintux: meego?17:19
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javispedroGAN900: start a black market of n90017:19
ManoftheSeaman, I wish the phone/tablet were cheaper.17:20
pupnikGAN900: cut our fingernails17:21
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GAN900pupnik, already done17:22
GAN900somehow that doesn't make me hate capacitive any less.17:22
Termana*I* have a solution17:24
TermanaYou COULD17:25
TermanaBuild a bridge and get over it :P Just kidding17:25
TermanaShall I open the flood gates?17:26
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auenfsurely the horrible inaccuracy of capcitive is all thats needed to mention how bad it is?17:27
auenfi have trouble hitting what i want, and i have tiny fingers17:27
amigadaveX-Fade: which automake version is being used? that macro was new in 1.8 i think17:27
auenfand i also tend to try to use fingernails anyway17:27
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crashanddieauenf: you're on this channel, you saying you have tiny fingers probably means you're a massive overweight adult with fingers the size of kid's legs17:27
Termanaauenf, pfft I have more trouble with accuracy on resistive17:28
auenfwell, i'm 50kg soaking wet, your call ;)17:28
leinohi all, trying to get the ssh server started on my n90017:28
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leinowhat is the name of the ssh daemon?17:28
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leinoI suspect it's not running17:28
SpeedEvilinstall 'openssh+server' from extras17:29
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leinoI installed "openssh server+client"17:29
X-Fadeamigadave: Trying to find out.17:29
leinothe client works17:29
amigadaveX-Fade: if you are using autoreconf, a --verbose should tell you, i think17:30
javispedroautoconf -- urgh :)17:30
X-Fadeamigadave: Is inside an OBS, so need to find out what is going on ;)17:30
amigadaveX-Fade: ah, i see :)17:30
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dnearyamigadave, I'm just wondering if there was any page in the wiki we could have pointed Pallavi to which he could have used to solve his problem17:31
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leinoalso, everyone.. are you supposed to be able to ping your n900?17:31
dnearyamigadave, Packaging is pretty good... also the autoconf & automake tutorial you just updated17:32
amigadavedneary: the autotools section of the packaging article nicely covered it17:32
dnearyI thought so too17:32
amigadavebut yeah, i should find a place to add those autotools tutorial links17:32
dnearyI would love to know where he was getting his code samples from17:32
amigadavewell, the wiki pages for osso-abook (and the API reference) gave no indication of the pkg-config file to use, which is not great17:33
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auenfleino, ping from where?17:33
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leinoI try to ping it over internet, from my home pc17:34
leinoI got the ip associated with the gprs0 device17:34
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auenfyou might be behind a NAT thru your provider17:35
leinoI can ping other stuff17:35
auenfi have a full static ip with my mobile sim17:35
leinoalso I can ping my home pc from my n90017:35
auenfthats fine, you'd have an ip to yourself at home17:36
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auenfbut your phone plan is most likely a shared ip with lots of other phones17:36
auenfusing NAT17:36
leinosorry, what?17:37
dnearyamigadave, I have been meaning to ask you17:37
leinoyou mean a bunch of other phones have the same ip at the same time?17:37
auenfleino, who is your mobile provider?17:37
dnearyamigadave, Why did you add the superfluous []s to arguments in
pupniktongue did not work on iPod17:37
SpeedEvilleino: yes17:37
leinothey're called telenor17:37
SpeedEvilleino: that's how NAT works17:37
SpeedEvilpupnik: I use my nose quite a lot on the n90017:37
amigadavedneary: m4 quoting is a black art, easiest to play it safe and quote every argument17:37
pupniknose works on iPod17:38
amigadaveplus, some people get really confused that arguments are seperated by commas and not spaces17:38
auenfleino, and you have a normal mobile plan with data?17:38
dnearyThat at least has the merit of being consistent :)17:38
ManoftheSea"imma dial wif mah face"17:38
dnearyAnyway - gotta blog...17:38
leinoauenf: I don't really know what you mean by "normal" or "with data"17:38
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auenfas opposed to a 'mobile broadband' plan (which is really meant to be used in a usb modem)17:38
BCMMpupnik: is that an app, or do you mean you actually can't work an ipod touchscreen by licking it?17:39
leinoauenf: the plan is called "telenor surf", and is meant for cellphones17:40
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pupnikBCMM: it did not respond to my tongue, at least.  YMMV17:40
auenfthe 'ip' your phone is getting, its 10. ?17:40
leinoauenf: would a dynamic dns service solve this problem?17:41
BCMManybody know what sort of touchscreen the ipod touch has?17:41
auenfdynamic dns is meant for connections where your ip changes, eg, every time you connect17:41
BCMMdynamic DNS is useful17:41
leinoso what is the punchline17:41
auenfyour problem is that you dont have an ip to yourself, it shared by other users also, and in order to forward ports thru it, like internet connection sharing17:42
leinosshing into your n900 cant be done if you have the NAT thing?17:42
BCMMbut wouldn't help with not having a globally unique ip address17:42
auenfleino, whats the start of the ip? 10. ?17:42
leinonope, 178.17:42
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BCMMif you absolutely cannot have an "external" open port, "reverse SSH" is the answer17:43
leinooh, I just saw it changed17:43
leinofrom what it was before17:43
leinostill starts the same tho17:43
BCMMi.e. SSH connection from the phone to your computer, that forwards another SSH connection that goes the other way17:43
leinoauenf: (I restarted it)17:43
auenfhmm, might be dynamic dns17:43
auenfaltho you may have lots of ports restricted also17:43
auenfof course its more likely to be NAT17:44
auenf178 is the ip that shows up in ifconfig?17:44
auenfor ?17:44
BCMM(using SSH's port forwarding abilities)17:44
leinoauenf: yeah17:44
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auenftry that site also, see if its a different ip17:44 gave the same answer17:45
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leinowhat is the easiest way to figure out which ports are open?17:46
auenfnot enough results in english for me to see much about telenor surf17:47
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leinoauenf: that's ok, anything special I should look for?17:47
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BCMMleino: from the point of view of a machine on the internet, or actually open on the phone?17:48
auenfBCMM, he's trying to ssh to his phone over the internet17:48
leinoBCMM: I want to know all three I guess17:48
SpeedEvilleino: what's your IP - first17:49
BCMMauenf: and so far it doesn't work?17:49
leinoBCMM: I can ssh to my pc over the internet, from my n90017:49
leinobut not the other way around17:49
leinoI get connection timeout17:49
auenfi think so, and he cant ping his phone via the ip either17:49
BCMMleino: have a look at sshd logs on both machines17:49
BCMMleino: that way, you get another source for the IP address of the phone, and you find out if the phone detected anything when you SSH'ed it17:50
BCMMof course, it is possible that the network gives real IP addresses, but messes with incoming connections as a braindead security measure17:50
leinomy /var/log is empty17:51
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BCMMactually, i dunno if the n900 has sshd logs17:51
auenfmost phone plans have restrictive access, pretty much blocking lots ;)17:51
BCMMleino: are you sure the ssh server is running? can you do "ssh localhost" on the phone?17:52
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leinossh localhost did indeed work!17:53
leinoImma try sshing to my own external ip (from the n900 to the n900)17:54
leinoomg, works!17:54
tybollt_Imma firin mah lasah!17:54
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leinostill can't do it from my home pc though17:55
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sulxleino: isp blocking17:55
mgedminleino, most likely your ISP blocks incoming connections on port 2217:55
BCMMor on all ports17:56
BCMMbut yeah, try some weird port numbers17:56
auenfnot isp, mobile network provider17:56
leinobut then why could I do "ssh [myip]" on my n900, wouldnt that go via port 2217:56
mgedminI'd say the mobile provider _is_ the ISP in this case17:56
sulxtrue, but not through network17:56
mgedminleino, it doesn't go through the firewall17:56
Disconnectleino: n900 doesn't send packets to/from itself via the network.17:56
BCMMleino: that didn't really go over the network17:57
auenfbut my mobile provider is a true ISP, not a mobile provider ;)17:57
Disconnectnetwork would reject them17:57
mgedminyour n900 has that IP, all the packets are internally handled by the kernel and never even appear on the air17:57
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auenfi have a mobile broadband plan with voice support17:57
leinoeveryone: ok that explains it17:57
BCMMIP networks are damn clever, and it will've worked out that the quickest route is straight back to the network stack17:57
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DisconnectBCMM: also, a packet with teh same source/dest is prolly spoofed anyway. :)17:58
mgedminyou could set up ssh port forwarding from the n900, and then tunnel back...17:58
BCMMthat is a pretty evil quit message17:58
Disconnectjust like mail that says its from and to you..17:58
leinoso what do I do... set my sshd to listen on a different port and then try sshing in on that port number?17:58
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sulxor use ssh tunnel17:58
BCMMleino: what mgedmin said17:58
BCMMSSH can forward ports for you, in either direction17:58
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leinook, a little more explicitly please :)17:59
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BCMMso ssh to the PC from the phone, and use that connection to forward a connection in the other direction17:59
BCMMman ssh, look at -L17:59
sulxyou connect ssh tunnel from n900 to home17:59
mgedmin-R, I think, in this case17:59
mgedminuser@n900: ssh your.home.pc -R 2222:localhost:2217:59
BCMMsorry, not -L, that's for going the other way17:59
BCMMlisten to mgedmin17:59
mgedminthen yourusername@your.home.pc can do ssh -p 2222 localhost and end up logging into your n90018:00
mgedminI'm not sure what the point of that would be18:00
Shapeshiftermhh... I'm getting this problem again. I think I need to kill something, can't remember how the command went: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > sb-conf select FREMANTLE_X8618:00
Shapeshiftersb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first18:00
mgedminwell, you could then use scp I suppose18:00
mgedminor mount your n900's filesystem with sshfs18:00
leinomgedmin: that would setup a ssh connection from my n900 to my home pc, would it not?18:00
leinoI want to do the reverse18:00
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mgedminleino, two commands, one setting up n900 -> pc (with tunnel), the other one traversing that tunnel to establish pc -> n90018:01
leinook sorry18:01
BCMMif you are a KDE user, you can use the fish:// protocol in konqueror18:01
leinoshould have read it all :)18:01
BCMM(to see the files on the n900)18:01
leinook, gonna try that18:01
mgedminwhy not do it over wifi?18:01
mgedminwhy use 3g?18:01
leinoI dont have a wifi router atm18:02
crashanddieleino: usb?18:02
crashanddiedon't tell me you don't have a usb port open18:02
leinocrashanddie: of course18:02
crashanddieyou can have networking over USB18:02
mgedmincables suck, but having to manually establish a tunnel before you can ssh in also sucks18:02
crashanddieworks very well, faster than any wireless you'll get18:02
mgedminthat's true18:02
crashanddieTomaszD: chinese, therefore not newsworthy18:03
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crashanddieTomaszD: the chinese scientists are under so much pressure they'll bollocks their way through papers18:03
crashanddieTomaszD: unless it's reviewed and approved by a correctly funded and established university, I'm not reading it18:04
BCMMusb networking with the n900 is pretty good18:04
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BCMMcan't remember what i did, but there is some config file you can edit to enable it automatically whenever you choose pc suite mode18:04
crashanddieindeed, but that's even too much hassle18:04
mgedminconfig file?18:04
crashanddieusually I just connect in mass storage, and then ifup usb018:04
mgedminwhat config file?18:04
TomaszDcrashanddie, I'm still biking, 45km today, haven't... crashed and died yet ;)18:05
BCMMcombined with a static ip for usb0 on my desktop, and i now just plug it in, choose pc-suite mode, and run ssh/konqueror18:05
crashanddieTomaszD: good on ya18:05
BCMMfish:// over USB is still quite a lot slower than mass storage18:05
TomaszDit's addictive18:05
crashanddieTomaszD: yeah, it is, just stay on the right path of the addiction: cycling, not buying18:05
SpeedEvilTomaszD: Biking + openstreetmap18:06
mgedminon the plus side you get access to more and you can access it all simultaneously from both computers (pc and n900)18:06
javispedrousb networking with n900 = install libicd-network-usb,, plug into pc, select pc suite, click on netwrok connections, tap usb.18:06
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TomaszDSpeedEvil, yeah well I need a working SHR install first, a microsd card for offline maps and a bike holder...18:06
* mgedmin has a script to modprobe g_nokia, ifconfig usb0, and start a DHCP server on usb0 from the n900 -- then when I plug in a cable, Network Manager on my laptop autoconnects18:06
crashanddieSpeedEvil: no offense, but the N900 doesn't have what it takes to be a proper biking tool yet18:07
mgedminwhat's this "libicd-network-usb" thing?18:07
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TomaszDI got gps working, but wifi doesn't want to cooperate :/18:07
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: No, it's not good for navigation, if that's what you mean. It also doesn't have a spoke tensioning tool.18:07
mgedminyou can use it as a small hammer, though18:08
crashanddieSpeedEvil: it needs to be able to run with GPS on for 10 hours without the battery dying, and it needs an app that measures steepness, speed, tracks your movements, and then export it to something usable on a laptop (or well, something viewable on the n900 as well)18:08
pupnikNokia Stylus SU-36 works with capacitive18:08
TomaszDcrashanddie, I use the gps track logger widget on the n900 for now, but I want to move to the freerunner with tangogps18:08
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: It can run with gps for 10 hours. And gnuplot.18:08
Disconnectcrashanddie: get one of the tracker-tags (forget the name off the top of my head) with bluetooth.18:08
tybollt_ten hours Crash? You one of them "ironman" nutties? :)18:09
ShapeshifterFor some reason I cannot run the qt4-maemo5-homescreen-example in scratchbox (while I can on my n900). After installing it, I get these errors: hildon-home[6361]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Unknown Plugin Loader type: qt18:09
Shapeshifterhildon-home[6361]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Error loading plugin: /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/qt-homescreen-example.desktop18:09
Shapeshifterqt4-maemo5-homescreen-loader was installed successfully though.18:09
leinook, the "user@n900: ssh your.home.pc -R 2222:localhost:22" thing gave me a password prompt for root on my home machine18:09
leinois that what you expected?18:09
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mgedminleino, um, no18:10
mgedminI expected it to give you a password prompt for 'user'18:10
BCMMthe n900 would be perfect if it had host-side USB, an infrared receiver, and a spoke tensioning tool18:10
mgedminyou probably want 'ssh yourusername@your.home.pc -R ...'18:10
crashanddietybollt_: well, leave the house around 8, 1.5 hours cycling to meet up with people, then about 6 hours of cycling (on and off, breaks every hour or two) then cycling back home, 10 really is a minimum for a full day out18:10
leinoI dont have a user named 'user' on my home pc18:10
mgedminBCMM, a digital thermometer and compass18:10
BCMMactually, the compass might be kinda useful18:10
BCMMthe GPS things that work out your heading from your motion are a bit hackish18:11
SpeedEvilmgedmin: Naah - thermometer is pointless.18:11
Shapeshifternvm an apt-get upgrade fixed it.18:11
SpeedEvilmgedmin: The main camera should also work as a FLIR.18:11
BCMMand fail when you do the sensible things of *stopping* to find out where you are18:11
mgedminI'm often curious about the indoor temperature18:11
mgedminalthough the n900 gets hot rather often, which would throw off readings18:11
BCMMit would basically read teh temperature of your pocket18:11
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crashanddieBCMM: indeed, on a bike, I'd rather have something that accurately and immediately tells me where I've been, rather than guess for 20 seconds where I'm going18:12
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BCMMcrashanddie: not sure i understand18:12
leinook I tried "user@n900: ssh leino@your.home.pc -R 2222:localhost:22", and it gave me "Warning: remote port forwarding failed for listen port 2222"18:13
BCMManyway, i personally find maep is very nice for cycling18:13
BCMMa GPS device with opencyclemap!18:13
tybollt_crashanddie: I'm flat out impressed. I'd croak after half an hour ;P18:13
BCMM(and the track is nice)18:13
crashanddieI'm on a bike, I kinda know where I'm going, I just need to know my general location to adjust the bearing of my general direction. I don't need something to tell me "turn left now"18:13
tybollt_crashanddie: x-country?18:13
smokudigital compass for orienting the map is nice. but the real application is augmented reality18:13
crashanddietybollt_: mostly yeah18:14
BCMMcrashanddie: doesn't maep basically do that?18:14
BCMMoh, doesn't really do direction18:14
tybollt_besides - anyone engineered a bike mount for a N900 yet?18:14
BCMMtybollt_: do want.18:14
* mgedmin tries18:14
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BCMMit would have to be pretty trustworthy18:15
tybollt_should be possible to alter a current mount of some kind - no?18:15
crashanddietybollt_: cycling is easy. If you're on your own, you can go at the speed you want and keep going for days, even with the crappiest fitness level. If you're with other people and need to keep up with them, it's usually better if you're fit enough to have it the other way around: they need to keep up with you18:15
mgedminleino, Works For Me (TM)18:15
tybollt_crashanddie: well that's the point kinda innit? To have the others trigger you to go faster?18:15
BCMMi've found it pretty easy to increase cycling speed and stamina - easier by far than same for running, for me18:16
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leinomgedmin: ok.. well I want to try the usb thing now18:16
mgedminleino, is anything already listening on port 2222 on your desktop?  you can try a different port if you want18:16
fralstybollt_: duct tape should be able to do the trick ;)18:16
mgedminjust pick something over 1024 so you won't need to ssh into the root account18:16
BCMMnokia makes a "universal" car mount that is supposed to work with the n90018:16
BCMMperhaps it can be hacked up18:17
leinomgedmin: ok.. I dont know how to find out if anything is listening on 2222 on my desktop18:17
mgedminnetstat -tl18:17
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BCMMi find it hard to believe it gives access to top buttons and ports though18:17
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lcukisnt the universal mount rebranded ducttape?18:18
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leinomgedmin: maybe I should mention that although I got that warning, I still got a ssh connection from my n900 to my home pc18:19
leinowhich seems to work18:19
mgedminmakes sense18:19
BCMMcan't tell if it would hold the longs sides of short sides18:19
crashanddietybollt_: not really, fast isn't really better18:19
BCMMalso, doesn't look obviously hackable18:19
crashanddietybollt_: it's better to go further than faster, though if your natural speed is faster than others, you'll be a lot more comfortable a lot longer18:20
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TomaszDthere's the BRODIT 511099 passive holder, with a bike mount it could work18:22
TomaszDbut I'd add some additional protection just in case...18:22
BCMMdo they offer a bike mount?18:23
TomaszDa universal HR mount18:23
TomaszDso you can have a bike mount or a car mount with the same backplate18:23
BCMMcan't quite see in the photo - camera button is exposed, right?18:24
TomaszDit looks as though they though this one through, you can even open the keyboard in this18:24
BCMMhow? doesn't look possible in photos18:25
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TomaszDthe mount doesn't block the slider18:25
BCMMTomaszD: what holds it on?18:26
BCMMdoes it just sorta "click"?18:26
TomaszDfairy dust, which is why I'd use some rubber bands on the sides18:26
TomaszDespecially for bike use18:26
Trewas <- I have that one for bicycle mount, it worked quite well with my previous phone but I have not yet tested with n90018:26
BCMM(i can't think of a sane use for the front camera while cycling)18:26
TomaszDTrewas, testes, won't work18:27
TrewasTomaszD: damn :( what's the problem?18:27
TomaszDif you clasp the n900 in this, it will shut down, as you push the power button with the sides :)18:27
lcukBCMM, main camer?18:27
TrewasTomaszD: groan :)18:27
BCMMlcuk: ?18:27
lcukfront camera == main camera18:27
* lcuk keeps getting mixed up18:27
BCMMlcuk: i meant the camera facing the user18:27
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BCMMit's crap compared to the other camera, so i consider the other camera the main camera18:28
lcukcheck how out of breath you are18:28
lcuktake photos every mile18:28
lcuk"this is BCMM after 2 miles"18:28
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BCMMi was envisioning very dangerous teleconferencing18:28
lcukalso, for your clip:
lcuknot a problem, especially if its c2c18:29
lcukcyclist to cyclist :D18:29
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BCMMlcuk: i mean the looking at the screen18:29
lcukpeople have starteddoing bike trips down bolivias death road18:29
BCMMperhaps one could have a small mirror behind the main camera18:29
tripzerotrips? someone called me?18:29
BCMMand have a corner of the screen show you what is ahead18:29
TomaszDTrewas, I've tried holding it in landscape mode, but it *will* fall out, it's just not sturdy enough, on a bike it will break as the n900 is too heavy for it18:30
lcukid rather just look ahead than that :P18:30
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jaskaalso there is probably more shaking and quick shocks while biking if going anywhere with damaged pavement18:31
lcukjust try it offroad18:31
lcukif you can find a clamp that holds for MTB then a crumbling pavement will be childsplay18:31
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TomaszDso a word of warning, don't buy the bike holder from DX if you have the n900...18:32
TomaszDit worked fine for an e51 in a rally car, during a rally though :) mounted on an internal handrail18:32
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lcukwhat would be useful would be one of the external LCD bluetooth displays18:32
barisionedo you know how to prevent the hildon-desktop from showing the fake empty window when launching my application?18:33
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lcukmmm barisione dunno, i thought it just came up by default for gtk i can dig and see where it was initiated holdon18:34
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barisioneon gnome you have a .desktop key to say that you don't want it18:34
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lcukbarisione, claudio will know for certain18:35
barisioneok, I will ask him18:35
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TomaszDheh, so the SDK doesn't work on amd64, it failed to install and didn't even attempt to clean up18:37
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MohammadAGTomaszD, use -F18:44
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crashanddielcuk & GAN900: ^19:10
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DocScrutinizer~rape scratchbox maemo SDK19:14
* infobot takes scratchbox maemo SDK behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams19:14
DocScrutinizerabandon all hope who enters here19:14
DocScrutinizerSCIZZZZOOOOIIIIIIID >:-(((19:14
pupnikmmm fruity oaty bars!
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E0xDocScrutinizer: hehe why ?19:15
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DocScrutinizerit's an alien on my PC, none of the tools I'm used to works inside that crap chroot environment. And WHY THE F*CK do I need such scizoid mess, just to compile a hello world or a kernel? My genuine gcc should work like a charm, when given the right directives wrt wher to fetch libs and which target arch to build - well I guess that's MADDE then19:17
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pupnikyou sound almost qualified to describe a fix19:18
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E0xbut MADDE is just a preview right now19:20
E0xnot ?19:20
GAN900DocScrutinizer, we want to keep the lusers out. :P19:20
DocScrutinizerI goddamn did some cross platform development in my life, that's never been as clumsy as scratchbox19:20
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DocScrutinizeredit *on your system*, compile *on your system*, either run in an emulator environment or simply download to target. remote debug *from your system*. iterate (aka start over from beginning)19:22
DocScrutinizersimple as that19:22
user_i want to install software but it said you dont have enough memory what shall i do?19:22
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infobotit has been said that optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs19:23
spturtleDocScrutinizer: so how would you run tests that want to run a cross-compiled app?19:23
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DocScrutinizerspturtle: please rephrase19:23
* spturtle hasn't even gotten scratchbox to work ):19:23
spturtleDocScrutinizer: many applications and libs have a "make check" target that might run the apps you just built, but that doesn't work in a cross compilation env19:24
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DocScrutinizerhmm, I don't think I need that19:25
DocScrutinizerfor now at least19:25
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Mece_hey is there any way of getting a touchselector with single selection to have nothing selected initially?19:25
DocScrutinizerbtw your question sounds like "and how would you fill gasoline into a elctro car?"19:26
Mece_have unselect_all(0) and set_active(0, -1) and the bastard still selects the first item. grr argh!19:26
DocScrutinizerspturtle: I guess those "make test" scripts had to be rewritten to use a parameter "target=emu" / "target=real_hw" and then download the sw_under_test to the selected target and run it there19:28
javispedroDocScrutinizer: it's way easier to do a convoluted build system that to fix every other package in existence19:28
mintuxwhat the hell should I do ? 257mb of root is full I can not get sms and install software19:28
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wazdhello people :)19:28
Mece_mintux, disable repos from ham19:28
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GAN900Jaffa, hopefully I can finish it at lunch in a half hour.19:28
GAN900Yello, wazd.19:29
mintuxMece_:in file manager?19:29
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: no, it's way easier for NOKIA to give us a matrix where we can play using the toys NOKIA is willing to give to us19:29
Mece_minntux, in the app manager19:29
wazd~seen vdvsx19:29
infobotvdvsx <~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 21h 44m 30s ago, saying: 'its true almost 22h and still a lot of light :D'.19:29
Mece_mintux, in the app manager19:30
mintuxMece_:after that update?19:30
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you can use whatever tool you want -- it's just that you'll find that it is horribly easier to build your average debian package under scratchbox than under a cross compiler.19:30
Mece_mintux, what update?19:30
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wazdtimeless: btw, that row that you told me douesn't work :(19:30
mintuxMece_:why root partition is too low ?19:30
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mintuxis there any way to increase that ?19:31
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wazdtimeless: maybe I was doing something wrong cause there were no "backisback = 0" at all19:31
mintuxand why it depends on sms inbox ?19:31
Mece_mintux, then either find and remove the offending (as in not optified) software, or try some of the methods in wiki.19:31
DocScrutinizer51javispedro: to BUILD I agree - to DEVELOP I dare to disagree completely19:31
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DocScrutinizer51SB is a mere *building* environment19:32
mintuxMece_: im in linux . it's very bad I limited to install softwares (in unlimited world )19:32
Mece_mintux, well the fast chip is 256Mb. it's a physical limitation.19:32
Mece_mintux, install them to /opt19:33
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mintuxMece_: where did they install? I install from app manager not handly19:33
crashanddieoh, another stupid "free as in beer" zealot?19:33
Mece_mintux, well the applications in extras install to opt. the stuff in testing and devel install wherever they please, although often to opt.19:34
* wazd looks at "Nokia Windows Phone?!" thread19:34
wazdaaah. god'ol t.m.o.19:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yes :)19:34
crashanddiemintux: you have a room of a specific size, you can not put more things than the size will allow in that room. End of discussion.19:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: note that I'm a sbox fan. :)19:35
mintuxcrashanddie: can we create another partition and mount some dir like share or var to it ?19:35
infoboti heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs19:36
infoboti guess rootfs is mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw19:36
DocScrutinizer51javispedro: so augment your beloved SB with a decent interface t the host system. Shouldn,t be hard at all19:36
javispedroDocScrutinizer: it's called bind mounts19:36
wazdI wonder who needs ZodTTD if we have javispedro19:36
DocScrutinizer51something along that line19:36
javispedrowazd: well, if he made a opengles plugin and it's not releasing it...19:37
wazdand RST38h :)19:37
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javispedro(also, I never owned any psx)19:37
Mece_hey could you make ~rootfs include a link to the wiki entry on freeing up space in rootfs19:37
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wazdjavispedro: you can buy it for like 10 bucks :D19:37
javispedroDocScrutinizer: my personal setup is a bind mounted $HOME/Projects to $HOME/Projects/Maemo; works very well. Also I usually export that folder via NFS to N900 too.19:38
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javispedro(one of the mount points _inside_ sbox)19:38
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you can do all of this from /etc/fstab and /etc/exports19:38
DocScrutinizer51javispedro: script or it never happened19:39
javispedrono script, just a line on /etc/fstab19:39
Mece_good one19:39
wazdJaffa: btw, I've found the sense in your weekly reviews when I got out of touch with community for a while :) thanks for your great work :)19:39
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crashanddiewtf is going on with sticky crap in community on tmo?19:41
GAN900crashanddie, 100 Days: Part Deuce19:42
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javispedrosounds like a bad film name :)19:42
GAN900Conclusion from the sprint meeting yesterday19:42
GAN900javispedro, it was a bad film name.19:42
crashanddieGAN900: part deuce?19:42
javispedroI think it's nice either way.19:42
GAN900crashanddie, recall the 100 Days from 2008?19:43
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crashanddieI do19:43
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crashanddiejust don't remember tmo becoming 5 clicks long19:44
cityOfLightshi all19:44
cityOfLightscan any one here help me with a shell loop?19:44
* MohammadAG plays wedding music19:45
crashanddiecityOfLights: for i in *.ext; do; echo $i; cat $i | grep $1; done;19:45
javispedrolet's hope we get useful feedback out of the threads instead of suggestions about the n900+1 keyboard =)19:45
cityOfLightsMohammadAG: congrats19:45
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MohammadAGcityOfLights, not me, <crashanddie> I do19:47
Mece_tmo is hilarious. this one made coffee come out of my nose:
Mece_(from laughing)19:48
javispedrohilarious, and crazy.19:49
javispedroah, abill_uk.19:49
SpeedEvil'PLEASE be tactical'19:49
* SpeedEvil readies his tactical nukes.19:49
DocScrutinizer51Mece_: damn, I still need a kitchen to prepare me some19:50
crashanddieX-Fade: can I ask you a favour, bru?19:50
crashanddieX-Fade: give weed to Reggie so he bans geneven19:50
javispedrogeneven, abill, that other guy whose name I forgot..19:50
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ShapeshifterI wonder why they disabled the sequential icon loading for the launch menu by default. it looks beautiful :>19:51
cityOfLightshere is the for loop I need help with19:52
ShapeshiftercityOfLights: what's the problem?19:53
Shapeshifterthe args() function?19:53
cityOfLightscrashanddie:  how to have the for at line 32 use each on the strings in HOME_ID?19:53
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cityOfLightsShapeshifter: I couldnt get the args function to work, but I am reffering to line 32 now19:54
crashanddiecityOfLights: what is the format of $HOME_ID?19:55
cityOfLightsline 1819:55
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crashanddiecityOfLights: remove the quotes around $HOME_ID19:58
* DocScrutinizer attaches hose to Mece_'s nose19:58
cityOfLightscrashanddie: ok19:58
cityOfLightsline 18?20:00
crashanddiecityOfLights: no, line 3220:00
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Treibholzhmm, my adblock isn't working anymore20:01
Treibholzhow could I have broken it?20:01
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ZuccaIs there a cli command for maemo notifications? I'm planning a small script that would look for a file from my server (using scp), then notify me if it existed.20:02
cityOfLightscrashanddie: sweet. ok , now how can I have the args function work?20:02
cityOfLightsline 1920:02
crashanddiecityOfLights: that'll be $20 by paypal20:03
cityOfLightsbut but20:03
cityOfLightsI am realising it under GL20:03
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* crashanddie goes back to watching dr house20:04
cityOfLightsthanks crashanddie20:04
ShapeshiftercityOfLights: you might wanna ask #bash. there's an army of wizards over there.20:05
cityOfLightsI am working on adding this to openvpn applet20:05
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: DrHouse?? damn, yesterday there was no DrHouse here, felt pissed20:07
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: been catching up, hadn't seen any episodes since black hole20:07
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: watching the one where the crane fell down and all20:07
DocScrutinizerhmm... I guess I need to do a little p2p leeching20:08
crashanddieno you don't20:08
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TrewasTomaszD: (re: the dx bicycle phone holder) it was quite trivial to "mod" it to not hit the n900's power button in portrait mode (just cut out small part of the foam), but overall it feels a bit flimsy to hold n900's weight20:11
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Shapeshifterdoes cutempc work for anyone? mpc works and all, but cutempc can't connect and instead hangs and gives "connection closed" errors and then freezes20:22
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Jaffawazd: Glad you find them helpful :-)20:26
wazdVDVsx: boo :)20:26
VDVsxwazd, hey :)20:26
wazdVDVsx: how's it going? :)20:27
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VDVsxwazd, fine and you ? :D20:28
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wazdVDVsx: I've tested BlueMaemo recently, loaded it up, then saw "waiting for connection" dialog and then i died :D20:28
TomaszDTrewas, I thought of that, a trivial mod, but still flimsy, yes20:28
lcukwazd, thats not a good thing did the doctor give you some tablets?20:29
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VDVsxwazd, well, I requested a new design for that, your fault :P20:29
wazdVDVsx: oh20:29
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wazdlcuk: Doctor said that i can't conquer the universe. Pathetic slave. :D20:30
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VDVsxwazd, not spare time these days :( but I've plans to improve the app a bit :D20:30
thunderfestso my n900 should arrive any minute am I going to have trouble installing the maemo 5 sdk sine I already have my scratch set up for n810?20:31
wazdVDVsx: it also resets connection with my PC but that's the problem of my BT dongle I guess, it's really shitty20:31
wutrHello all20:31
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wutrquestion: is it possible to set the default location for a N900 so it will automatically select the right language after a reflash?20:32
wazdVDVsx: other than that it looks uber-sexy :)20:32
VDVsxwazd, finally got a device ? or was from someone20:32
wazdVDVsx: well, I will have it for a while until someone will come and take it from me to Belarus :)20:32
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VDVsxthat's bad20:33
* VDVsx wonders what happened to the returned devices from the summit20:33
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wazdVDVsx: well, that won't happen very soon so I'm trying to do as much as possible :)20:34
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wazdVDVsx: the only complains I have bout it is its thickness and no portrait mode for media player :) Otherwise it's a really awesome device20:36
VDVsxwazd, I've a spare one now, but can't give it :(20:36
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wazdVDVsx: well, andrewFBlack was asking Quim to give his DDP device to me20:36
RST38hwazd: You finally got an N900?20:37
VDVsxwazd, with a data plan is the best device in the market for my needs :D20:37
wazdVDVsx: but I guess the result looks like all the other attempts :D20:37
wazdRST38h: well, sort of :)20:37
VDVsxyeah, I asked the same20:37
RST38hwazd: I will give you my proto, if Quim approves20:37
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RST38hwazd: Will save both of us trouble of mailing it around20:37
PhonicUKhey all20:37
PhonicUKanyone drawing mohammed tomorrow?20:37
wazdRST38h: I'm "carring" it around until Vlad come and get it :)20:38
wazdVDVsx: yeah, that sucks that Russia has such an awful data plans20:38
RST38hwazd: When he comes, let us meet somewhere20:39
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RST38hwazd: Awful? Really? :)20:39
RST38hwazd <== spoiled20:39
wazdVDVsx: no unlim, about $0.25/Mb20:39
VDVsxwow, much worst in .pt20:39
RST38hwazd: $0.14/MB20:39
RST38hwazd: And there is unlim20:39
wazdRST38h: for like 200 bucks? nothanks :D20:40
RST38hwazd: Unless you are using Megafon of course, but then you are your own enemy20:40
RST38hwazd: around $3020:40
RST38hA moment20:40
wazdRST38h: I am :(20:40
RST38hwazd: Then do not complain20:40
VDVsxI think here in .fi is cheap, not sure20:40
VDVsxin .pt is also around 30€20:40
VDVsxunlim20:40 is pretty chip cell-wise20:40
RST38hcheap (mhm)20:40
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wazdVDVsx: in .fi you can have 400kb/s unlim for e15 I recall20:41
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VDVsxI think I've 1mb unlimited, dunno how much it costs :D20:43
RST38hwazd: Carefully check the options.20:43
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wazdVDVsx: yeah, nokia pays :D20:43
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wazdRST38h: I don't understand it actually20:45
wazdRST38h: messages like these clearly shows to me that I'm gonna be raped20:46
RST38hwazd: google for it20:46
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RST38hwazd: afaik, the catch is the speed limitation20:47
wazdRST38h: and QoS20:47
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RST38hwazd: 128kbaud20:47
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RST38hwazd: I doubt you can talk of "QoS" applied to cellular data connections :)20:48
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wazdRST38h: not sure if you'll ever get even 128kb20:48
RST38hwazd: Same shitty QoS for everyone. But they basically limit the speed to eGPRS20:48
SpeedEvilRST38h: GPRS has a QoS - it's guaranteed at no worse than 2s rtt :)20:48
thunderfestreally though does any one have both maemo 4 and 5 sdks installed on one machine without problem?20:49
wazdRST38h: well, at least they can guarantee that you won't be kicked if the tower is overloaded20:49
wazdRST38h: cause I usually can't get a connection from my country for hours20:49
RST38hwazd: Surprisingly, I am having more problems with misconfigured 3G towers than with the plain old 2.5G20:49
wazdRST38h: and my country is like in 12km from moscow20:49
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RST38hwazd: Well, it mainly depends how far you are from the nearest big road20:50
wazdRST38h: I'm in 5km from Zheleznodorozhny :)20:51
wazdRST38h: that's not a megapolis of course, but still :)20:51
wazdRST38h: I used Beeline 3.5G connection in SPB btw and it worked pretty fast20:52
RST38hwazd: Do people get decent reception with Beeline/MTS there?20:53
E0xwhat i need know ( lib, lenguage ) for do some workspace indicator ( something that popup tell you the name/number of the current workspace ) anyidea ?20:53
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RST38hwazd: (because there is no way I am gonna trust Megafon)20:53
wazdRST38h: phone works well, gprs traffic gets kicked20:53
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mikki-kunhm... is easydeb a package which emulates a running debian on the n900?20:53
RST38hwazd: weird shit...never had that happen20:54
RST38hwazd: MTS worked the whole way to the .BY border, also works 100+km from MSK, in the middle of nowhere (just barely though)20:54
wazdRST38h: well, I guess I'll need to switch the carreer one day20:55
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BCMMit says "Unable to receive or send new messages. Device storage full. Remove data to free memory." on my n90021:00
BCMM(in a popup)21:00
BCMMi don't know which memory it means21:00
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PhonicUKBCMM, probably the root file system21:01
PhonicUKdo you have conky installed?21:01
BCMMPhonicUK: 2.2M free, according to df -h21:02
BCMMPhonicUK: no, what is conky?21:02
PhonicUKyah thats too low21:02
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BCMMPhonicUK: ah21:02
PhonicUKsystem monitor tool21:02
BCMMPhonicUK: which app causes those popups? what kind of message is it talking about?21:02
PhonicUKdo you have gainroot?21:02
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PhonicUKdo this as root:21:02
PhonicUKrm /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb21:03
PhonicUKthat should gain you some more space21:03
Disconnectapt-get clean does the same thing21:03
BCMMPhonicUK: what is kept there? downloaded .debs, in case of reinstall?21:03
Disconnectand you can sudo that w/o having to gainroot21:03
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PhonicUKand install conky, its really useful21:03
PhonicUKah ok, disconnect21:04
BCMMi'll have a look at conky21:04
PhonicUKBCMM, the files there is stuff the package manager has downloaded21:04
DisconnectBCMM: debs that are downloaded and currently installed - if you upgrade, the old one is deleted. if you uninstall, it gets deleted. (not live, but when autoclean runs. istr it gets run on boot and some other stuff)21:04
Disconnecter, some other times i mean21:04
PhonicUKBCMM, conky is in the app manager21:04
BCMMwhy does it keep them around then?21:04
DisconnectBCMM: on a desktop, .. um. i dunno. i never saw the point. i so rarely do reinstalls..21:05
Disconnectits a standard apt thing21:05
thunderfestmikki-kun: sorry I space out while typing that last sentence...basically easy-deb turns executable python files into installable deb files21:05
BCMM26.9M now21:06
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BCMMPhonicUK, Disconnect: thanks21:06
PhonicUKim tired, ran for my bus :s21:06
BCMMnow, any idea which application caused that error, and what sort of message is waiting for me?21:06
mikki-kunno problem ;) hm... i'll giver it a deeper look then21:06
BCMMi mean, it can't be a 2.5MB SMS21:06
PhonicUKit was pulling away from one stop, so i beat it to the next21:06
PhonicUKBCMM, probably a cache in some app21:07
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PhonicUKtheres a set of scripts somewhere that shows you how much space on the rootfs each package is using21:07
BCMMi feel like such a newbie21:08
BCMMi mean, i've used linux for years, but never really got familiar with *debian*21:08
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PhonicUKi was always a gentoo man myself21:09
BCMMand i know that from a normal perspective, it probably makes more sense than gentoo21:09
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BCMMbut i just had to ask how to delete distfiles...21:09
PhonicUKi read your mind21:10
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BCMMi should get more familar with debian; always seeing broken ubuntu boxen21:10
mintuxmy root was full I remove some application but only 2.3mb released and made free. why ? how can install my software on opt ?it's automatically installed on root21:11
mintuxI removed themes21:11
mintuxthat it said is 27mb but only 2.3 mb released21:12
PhonicUKmintux, run the command i told BCMM to run21:12
PhonicUKrm /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb21:13
PhonicUKas root21:13
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BCMMi'd actually noticed that that directory was huge, but assumed it was necessary21:13
BCMMalso, they should really have that automatically clean itself21:13
DisconnectBCMM: it does, old uninstalled packages are removed. live packages aren't. for reasons that, as i said, escape me..21:14
thunderfestthats what apt-get clean does21:14
DisconnectPhonicUK: srsly its safe to just use apt-get clean. and no need for gainroot or anything, since user can sudo apt-get21:14
Disconnectrather safer i mean21:15
mintuxPhonicUK: there is no package on that path21:15
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mintuxdisconnect I did apt-get auto remove auto-clean delete themes some softwares and cache not any change I only 2.3 mb free21:17
Disconnecttry apt-get clean. not auto-clean.21:18
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Disconnectthats why i said "apt-get clean" and didn't say "apt-get auto-clean"21:18
Disconnect"Like clean, autoclean clears out the local repository of retrieved package files. The difference is that it only removes package files that can no longer be downloaded, and are largely useless. This allows a cache to be maintained over a long period without it growing out of control."21:19
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* pupnik worries when to buy a spare n900 just in case the world goes all to hell21:21
thunderfestha my wife and I were talking about that just a few hours ago21:22
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thunderfestbut I still don't have a first n90021:22
thunderfestbut it gets delivered today should be here any minute21:23
thunderfestI'm quite excited21:23
pupniki've almost worn through one21:24
pupnikclean your fingers before using.  and don't blast the speakers all day.21:24
mikki-kunthunderfest: gratz then and happy configuring :) the n900 is one hell of a monster :D21:24
thunderfestso after an apocalypse do you think the fm transmitter would prove useful?21:25
mintuxthunderfest: I bought yesterday21:25
thunderfestI've been using the n810 for a few years now21:25
thunderfestI'm happy to finally upgrade21:25
SpeedEvilthunderfest: the range is 4-5m, so probably not.21:26
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mintuxthunderfest: are you linux user?21:26
thunderfestminutx: of course21:26
* RST38h cackles while cleaning N900 with the ultimate cleaning agent21:26
thunderfestand quite a good programmer my wife and I are hoping to crank out some games for you guys21:27
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wutrI can't edit the "phonenumber" labels in the contact list, right?21:29
MohammadAGNot on the N90021:31
thunderfestwutr: I saw some folks on talk whining about that so maybe not21:31
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thunderfestHas anyone had any luck installing both the maemo 4 and 5 SDK scratchbox setups on one development machine21:33
wutrwell, I just synced my e65 with the N900 and I noticed the nice label titles I made are gone, so yeah, I miss it21:34
wutrbut I'll figure something out :)!21:34
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thunderfestI want to get started deving for the n900 as soon as it comes ... but I'm wondering if I might need to removed the scratchbox I have already setup for my n810  I have a feeling they are going to conflict21:36
thunderfestI'm sorry to keep spaming this question here but no one has responded to it yet21:36
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thunderfestI guess I'll have to make a forum post and wait around for a response...or just try it and the hope that I can fix things and that they will not get to tangled21:37
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wutryou could try it on a virtual machine first?21:38
thunderfestexcellent suggestion!21:39
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thunderfestbut that will sort of take a little while21:40
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thunderfestI was really hoping some had already tried and could just give me a heads up about where there might be issues21:41
thunderfestbut I guess not21:41
wutrtrue, but if it's likely to get tangled it would take way longer to fix it again or to set it up all over21:41
wutrhaha maybe.. without noticing21:41
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thunderfestdid all the n810 devs just give up on the device once they got n900s21:42
neotest 12321:42
johnsqthey didn't get a n900, its a step backward21:42
thunderfestwhy do you say that?21:42
thunderfestbecause of all the plastic?21:43
johnsqi see it so. i have a n810 and didn't get a n900.21:43
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wutrthunderfest, you say you are quite a good developer. can you maybe give me some advice on where to start? I have some basic (visual) c# skills and I decided to switch to c++ (the standard (ansi?), not visual for now)21:44
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mintuxukeyboard doesn't install it siad hildon-im-fkb >= 3.9.61-1 needs21:44
thunderfestwell if you don't have a n900 how can you be sure it really is a step back..perhaps it would grow on you if you had it?21:44
thunderfestwhat sort of advice are you looking for?21:45
thunderfestc++ is IMHO definitely the way to go21:45
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thunderfestthe c++ programming language by bjarne stroustrup  is kinda the standard reference for the language21:46
thunderfestbut it can be pretty dense at times21:46
thunderfestwutr are you wanting to dev for the n900 or just in general?21:47
wutrI figured... Well, as you might expect from someone who comes from C# and windows forms + visual studio, I'd like to create visual applications (also for N900)21:47
thunderfestwell in that case I would recommend trying your hand at python first before jumping into c++21:49
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wutrallright.. why exactly?21:50
thunderfestpython is pretty nice as it lets you think about problems instead of memory management.21:50
thunderfestgui's are pretty micky mouse to get going21:50
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mintuxI need hildon-im-fkb (>= 3.9.61-1)  does any body know how can I find it21:51
mintuxMohammadAG: do you now anything about ^21:51
wutryay! I thought about that too, but I think I might have done that part already with C#21:51
thunderfestand it runs fast enough as long as the libraries your calling are fast21:52
b0unc3hey guys, is there any way (with dbus?) to get the current phone mode (2G,3G...) ?21:52
MohammadAGmintux, ukeyboard? PR1.221:53
mintuxMohammadAG: yes I need it21:53
mintuxbut it said it need that package21:53
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thunderfestif you really want to start with c++ I'd suggest ignoring gtk at first and instead using something like SDL21:53
mintuxbut the previous version installed21:53
MohammadAGwait for PR1.2 :)21:55
wutrbig difference in difficulty?21:55
mintuxMohammadAG: until when ?21:55
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thunderfestSDL make it pretty dead simple to create a window...but past that there is no widgets or anything...but you can pretty quickly the lazy foo tutorials21:55
mintuxMohammadAG: so after that do I have persian layout for my keyboard?21:55
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MohammadAGor install
wutrbut widgets is kind of what modern smartphones are about in daily use21:57
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wutris / are / whatever21:57
MohammadAGI suppose21:57
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thunderfestSDL is pretty game dev oriented so it's more fun to play with than GTK21:58
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johnsqthe advantage of SDL is, that is very lowlevel = fast, and cross platform.21:58
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thunderfestand it is pretty easy to use plus quite portable...say for instance you want to turn your program into an iphone app21:59
wutrwell I'd love to do gamedeveloping at some point, but for now that's a whole different world21:59
wutrgo on...21:59
thunderfeststart with a game like simon21:59
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thunderfestfour buttons four sounds and thats pretty much it22:00
mintuxhow to clean my tmp ?22:00
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mintuxI want to download something but it said you don't have enough room22:00
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wutrI like that advice :)22:01
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wutrbut, gtk or qt for widgets right?22:01
thunderfestthe best advice is just to code and then keep coding, practice its the only way to get better22:02
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wutror actually some sort of window / desktop like development22:02
johnsqwutr: depends if you need menus and so on. if you need only something in a rectangle displayed, gtk or qt or overkill, if you need menus than sdl is a pain.22:02
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wutrbut it's hard to continue when you keep on googling stuff that seems so simple22:02
thunderfestyeah fro lots of gadgets gkt or qt and really you should pry pick qt since it is own by nokia22:03
thunderfestwell thats the thing just googling and reading through simple things isn't going to make you any better you just have to code yourself22:04
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wutrthat actually makes a lot of sense22:06
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wutr69mIRC beta...22:06
wutr69wow it even messed up my nickname22:07
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wutr69thunderfest: can you repeat the last you said?22:09
thunderfestwell thats the thing just googling and reading through simple things isn't going to make you any better you just have to code yourself22:09
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wutr69ok didn't miss that, maybe something else then..22:12
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kimitakehi, I have tried OBS for fremantl, but requires account, how can I create it?22:18
thunderfest oh I can see the UPS man pulling down my block its time to get my n900 yeah!22:18
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Stskeepsups wagon catches fire, you loose22:19
lcukawwww crap22:20
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lcuki got rachel stevens pregnant22:20
thunderfestoh he passed my house I hope he's coming back!22:20
lpotterhe's delivering it to some old lady down the street22:21
thunderfesthahaha so she can get it to work and can flame the fourms22:21
lpotternope. she wont be home, so they leave it on the doorstep. and which the mailman will take it22:22
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thunderfestoh shit here he comes22:27
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lpotterhis GPS device just ran him into a ditch22:28
trumeeis it possible to display the N900 screen on computer22:28
lcukall the packages smashed on the floor22:28
lcukout of the corner of your eye, you see a glint of sunlight22:29
trumeei dont have big TV. want to use sixaxis controller to play on computer monitor22:29
lcukmoving the long grass out of the way you find the n90022:29
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lcuktrumee, use n90022:29
johnsqtrumee: then n900 has tv-out22:29
trumeejohnsq: dont have a TV :(22:30
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trumeelcuk: N900 screen is a bit small22:30
Kegetysmy "computer monitor" has a composite input so it works as long as you have that ;)22:30
trumeealso sixaxis needs  a kernel flash. does that void the warranty22:31
lcuktrumee, mm?22:31
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lcukyou can plug into big screen22:31
lcukor just use n900 as remote22:31
lcukwith odx :D22:31
trumeeKegetys: i have only analog and dvi input22:31
lcukodz even22:31
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trumeelcuk, there is nothing like video over usb?22:32
Kegetyswhy not just use the computer if you have one (I assume you do if you have a monitor as well)22:33
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Kegetysits not like maemo has alot of exclusive games ;)22:33
lcuktrumee, no, but if you tape your n900 to glasses you get an uber VR display (and some minor headaches)22:33
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trumeelcuk: crazy!!22:34
trumeeKegetys: thats a thought22:35
thunderfestunboxing is so much fun!22:35
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trumeethunderfest: what are you unboxing?22:36
thunderfestI just got a n90022:36
kduboiswhat is the widget called where the dialog pops up from the bottom?22:36
trumeeis there any way to record drnoksnes video22:36
lcuk:D thunderfest22:37
Shapeshifterkdubois: you mean a dialog. it's just called a dialog. e.g. a QDialog if it's Qt.22:37
kduboisthanks Shapeshifter22:37
trumeesomething like recordmydesktop22:37
Shapeshifterkdubois: some other things also pop up from the bottom. e.g. comboboxes22:37
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DisconnectShapeshifter: there's a yo-momma joke in there somewhere ;)22:38
kduboisright, i just want the 'base' pop up from the bottom thing. i tried a selector, didnt do what i needed though22:38
dmj726google just opened vp822:38
ShapeshifterDisconnect: :P22:39
dmj726thunderfest: cool22:39
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thunderfestis there a trick to getting the back cover off?22:42
Disconnectthunderfest: couple drinks, maybe a movie22:42
Kegetysbrute force22:42
Disconnectoh wait i'm still thinking of Shapeshifter's mom ;)22:42
Disconnectjust stick your thumbnail in the slot and pry. like shapeshifter's dad ;)22:43
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SpeedEvil - sort of on-topic (NOT WORKSAFE)22:50
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mikhasthunderfest, in case you didnt break it yet: use a credit card22:58
mikhasand congrats on your new n900, have fun =)22:58
lcukthunderfest, easiest of all - stylus, extract from device, pop into fingernail slot and twist a tiny bit :)22:58
lcukcomes right off22:58
* lcuk has no fingernails so has never tried22:59
lcukany other way22:59
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lcukabout 2inches in :D22:59
* Arkenoi just upgraded to -32 kernel, no issues with "stuck at high frequency" so far22:59
SpeedEvillcuk: You lost them in a horrific bear attack?22:59
lcukif bears live in helsinki then perhaps23:00
lcukbut no, i bite my nails23:00
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trumeedamn lost my vkbd.23:05
* trumee going for a reboo23:06
* trumee *t23:06
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trumeenope rebooting didnt help, still no vkbd :(23:12
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t_s_ointeresting, not much traffic on the forum about webm.23:17
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johnsqStskeeps: vp8 opensource released23:18
Stskeepswell start a thread..23:18
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jannegeven with ARM and TI support, without intel or nokia though23:22
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tripzerotrumee, try adding the devel-extra's repo, removing and reinstalling the vkbd extra languages package23:22
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jannegtheir library has even arm/neon optimized assembler23:22
tripzerotrumee, also try disabling/reenabling the vkbd in settings23:23
tripzeroi had to mess around with a bunch of stuff to get mine to work again23:23
jannegotoh the decoder is slower than ffmpeg h264 decoder on x86_64 and the visiul quality is somewhere between xvid and vc123:24
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summelsomebody has the link ready for the maemo ui psd thingy? :o23:25
tripzerojanneg, but maybe it's existance will scare h264 into being completely royalty free23:25
jannegwishful thinking23:25
jannegthere's probably a significant number of h264 patents which applies to vp823:26
summel:o found it :)23:26
tripzeroand possibly vice-versa23:26
trumeetripzero: enabling/disabling vkbd didn't help.23:26
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tripzerotrumee: try installing/reinstalling the extra languages pack for the keyboard23:26
tripzeroi forget the package name23:26
trumeetripzero: ok23:27
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trumeetripzero: ukeyboard?23:27
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tripzerosounds close23:27
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Stskeepsjavispedro: saw my comment on the thread?23:28
javispedrowe'll see what gets out of this23:29
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LuciusMarethere are several mmcblk files in /dev, which one is the card?23:31
MohammadAGp1 for partition 123:33
LuciusMareand what are the others? Is there a specification for this?23:33
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thunderfest_where can I set it to stop clicking everytime I touch the screen23:34
SpeedEvilthunderfest_: settings -> input I think23:34
ManoftheSeayep.  It's the motor, isn't it?23:36
thunderfest_I only have settings -> text input  ... no input23:36
thunderfest_what the latest firmware version23:37
javispedrothe one you have23:37
javispedrosettings -> display23:37
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LuciusMarei put my card in, mounted, /media/mmc1/ empty, i fscked it, and put the card out, and then, the fs acts like the card is in, all the files are there23:39
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LuciusMaremy MyDocs looks suspiciously simmiliar to my card, okay?23:40
thunderfest_alright I went to settings-> display and turned off "touch screen vibration"  but I'm still hearing a small click sound I touch the screen23:41
SpeedEvilthunderfest_: I think there is a seperate click setting23:42
javispedronow go to settings -> profile23:42
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LuciusMareMohammadAG: that seems to be mydocs for me23:42
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thunderfest_ok I see thank javispedro23:42
MohammadAG/dev/mmcblk0p1 is MyDocs, blk1p1 is the MMC23:43
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LuciusMare*sigh*, I *am* stupid. Thank you23:44
jacekowskiwe know23:45
jacekowskibut at least you know as well23:45
mintuxMohammadAG: I could not success to install that package . each time it needs a package and some packages installed and some not . I leave it23:45
AppiahIf I want to port a gtk application but it requries a much recent version of gtk+ then thats in extra-devel. What would be the best approach?23:45
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AppiahSomeone said something about hildon patches but didnt explain23:46
jacekowskiAppiah: well, see if it compiles23:46
lcukAppiah, find out what it needs and why23:46
MohammadAGmintux, disable -devel and install it, then enable -devel if you really want it23:46
Appiahit does not , says i require 2.16 and maemo got 2.1423:46
jacekowskiAppiah: and if it doesn't fix it23:46
lcukthere is usually some hildonisation required anyway23:46
jacekowskiAppiah: well, that's 1st thing to fix23:46
mintuxMohammadAG: hmm so I triy again23:46
lcukjust change it to 14 and see if it builds23:46
jacekowskiAppiah: change requred version to 2.1423:46
lcukit *might* be using some function new to the build23:47
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Appiahbut whats with the hildonpatches? i did not get that23:47
lcukbut oftentimes apps dont bother23:47
jacekowskithat's not important at the moment23:47
pupnikjavispedro: erm, those doom timedemos time-out exactly the same at 600mhz :/ -- i had to compile time command and make a test loop23:47
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lcukhildon is a set of functions and extra widgets that sit in better with tablet UX.  just try native gtk first and get that working23:47
pupniki was sure doom used system time to get the realtks23:48
lcukthen afterwards you can decide to change and alter it to be hildonised23:48
javispedropupnik: this is dos we're talking about...23:48
Appiahthanks , I'll see what I can do23:48
pupnikwell i was wrong.  now i am getting real numbers, i hope.  need to repeat the test a few times23:48
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lcukpupnik, doom time demos :D23:49
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pupnikit took me a couple of hours just to write this script23:50
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* javispedro ponders what are they exactly bothering zodttd for23:54
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ZogGDocScrutinizer, do you know german?23:58
DocScrutinizera little ;-D23:58
RST38h"A young mother died after doctors repeatedly failed to spot a six-inch long toilet brush handle embedded in her buttock"23:59
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