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| lbt | javispedro: sadly they're not public - the server is by no means 'hardened' | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| lbt | but I'm looking for people to volunteer to help work out the kinks :) | 00:10 |
| javispedro | lbt: ah. wanted to see why virtually none of my apps built ;P. thanks for the effort! | 00:10 |
| javispedro | heh, I imagine. | 00:10 |
| lbt | usually due to problems in a dependency ... there are some libhildon apps that don't install yet | 00:10 |
| lbt | what apps BTW? | 00:11 |
| javispedro | drnoksnes for ex. | 00:11 |
| lbt | nothing provides maemo-version < 5.0 | libsdl-haa1.2-dev, nothing provides libzeemote-dev, nothing provides libzeemote-conf-dev | 00:11 |
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| javispedro | ah, those are in -devel only. | 00:12 |
| lbt | there are some oddities... I only copied "Extras" so if it uses the autobuilder's 'oh I'll take a peek in -devel' algorithm then it won't work :) | 00:12 |
| javispedro | that explains it :P | 00:12 |
| lbt | I'm not judging (yet) ... | 00:13 |
| javispedro | note that it's very common to need -devel deps; as there's virtually no way to promote a -dev package to -testing. | 00:13 |
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| lbt | yes, I'm dubious about that | 00:13 |
| lbt | I proposed 'Surrounds' for MeeGo | 00:13 |
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| lbt | which provides a community shared-lib type place.... but that has regression test issues | 00:14 |
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| lbt | anyhow... up at 4:45am so off to bed now... | 00:14 |
| lbt | I'll be on/off for a few days... back at the tail end of the week | 00:15 |
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| javispedro | see ya | 00:15 |
| javispedro | kinda a "can of worms" topic... | 00:15 |
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| wazd | timeless: around? :) | 00:21 |
| wazd | javispedro: heya :) | 00:22 |
| javispedro | hey wazd | 00:22 |
| timeless_mbp | yah | 00:22 |
| * timeless_mbp is busy losing a couple of rounds against autoconf | 00:22 | |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: the only thing in the browser that pisses me off is "back" button :) | 00:22 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: I understand that eye-candy and stuff, but :) | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 00:23 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: is there any hack to make it work as expected? | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh - a shiny animated list - is cool the first 5 times | 00:23 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: well, it would be useful to launch it on tap'n'hold for example | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 00:24 |
| timeless_mbp | define expected? | 00:25 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: well, go back one page :) | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i think we fixed that for 1.2 | 00:26 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: like in all browsers in the world :) | 00:26 |
| timeless_mbp | but there's "backisback=1" in ~/.browser | 00:26 |
| timeless_mbp | which might do what you want | 00:26 |
| Wolfie | now, all that remains is to get that 1.2 out and into our phones :) | 00:26 |
| wazd | cancer is cured in 1.2 :D | 00:26 |
| javispedro | ah, backisback. reminds of me of old "sanemode" setting in some software | 00:26 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: thanks for the tip, I'll try | 00:26 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: sorry for stupid question, but what's the exact path to this file? :) | 00:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | ~ = /home/user | 00:31 |
| wazd | ah | 00:31 |
| timeless_mbp | but ~ should work in your shell... | 00:31 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: ping | 00:40 |
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| Shapeshifter | what kind of stuff does autobuilder use? I mean, how does it work, roughly? | 00:41 |
| Jaffa | Shapeshifter: sbmock, Scratchbox and some other glue (AFAIK) | 00:41 |
| Shapeshifter | Jaffa: thanks | 00:41 |
| Jaffa | Shapeshifter: There's been some stuff on maemo-developers about recreating the same thing yourself | 00:42 |
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| Cegy | can someone tell me how to restore nokia kernel from enhanced power-user kernel ? | 00:42 |
| timeless_mbp | reflash? :) | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | One wrong way that will work is to get the stock firmware image to reflash, use the flasher to pull it apart - then flash only the kernel part | 00:44 |
| Cegy | its pr 1.2 | 00:44 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: 8 left. I've delayed the publication (06:55 UTC) so I can polish any leftover; but I've got to go to bed now. | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - you must have a flash image somewhere for that | 00:44 |
| t-tan | Cegy: extract zImage from firmware and reflash kernel | 00:45 |
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| Cegy | i did it with a command thats someone told me last time, there was list of kernel and mine was something like 2.6.28-20100903+0m5 | 00:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | How can I poke the tracker to go again? | 00:50 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:57 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, OK, on it. | 01:02 |
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| alterego | So they're using festival in the MeeGo IVI, interesting .. | 01:06 |
| alterego | And navit .. | 01:06 |
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| GAN900 | lol | 01:12 |
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| alterego | Wassup GAN? | 01:13 |
| Macer | blah | 01:13 |
| Macer | ok. time to get gone | 01:14 |
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| BCMM | is it possible to prevent the camera app starting when i open the lens cover? | 01:16 |
| Shapeshifter | BCMM: it's somewhere in gconf. google for "gconf n900 camera prevent" and you should find it | 01:16 |
| BCMM | (since i sometimes open it to use the LED as a flashlight) | 01:16 |
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| BCMM | also, does the camera app have to pause the audio? | 01:17 |
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| BCMM | Shapeshifter: thanks | 01:17 |
| PhonicUK | ive got 4MB free on my rootfs and i dunno where its gone :/ | 01:17 |
| PhonicUK | now i have 29MB, wtf | 01:17 |
| PhonicUK | hmm | 01:18 |
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| Shapeshifter | BCMM: apparently tweakr has an option for it | 01:19 |
| PhonicUK | i want an app that lets me do ctrl+shift+left\right to switch tasks | 01:19 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: the camera app per gov regs is required to make a noise when you take a picture | 01:19 |
| timeless_mbp | so that your unsuspecting victims know when you're sneaking a peak | 01:19 |
| timeless_mbp | since it needs to be able to make a noise, it locks out the audio channel while it's open | 01:20 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 01:20 |
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| Shapeshifter | BCMM: found it http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=495516#post495516 | 01:20 |
| BCMM | timeless_mbp: which gov? | 01:20 |
| timeless_mbp | and yes, anything is possible | 01:20 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: probably euro/us | 01:20 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 01:20 | |
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| BCMM | timeless: and thanks, i assumed it was trying to help in case i was shooting video | 01:21 |
| Shapeshifter | mine doesn't make any noise | 01:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | it makes a very soft "click" though it doesn't seem to come from the speakers | 01:22 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: i'm told it does come from the speakers | 01:22 |
| lcuk | thats the sound of the undercover policeman clicking the handcuffs on you | 01:22 |
| timeless_mbp | you can replace the clip sound | 01:22 |
| timeless_mbp | whether you should is um… questionable | 01:23 |
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| Shapeshifter | it's very soft | 01:23 |
| BCMM | i has a memory of such a feature in tweakr, but there is only an option about unlocking when the cover opens | 01:23 |
| Shapeshifter | BCMM: I've sent you a link above | 01:23 |
| lcuk | of course there are legit times you dont want camera noise - at a wedding for instance | 01:23 |
| lcuk | sometimes you want more noise (kids party) | 01:23 |
| shikamaru | nite all | 01:24 |
| BCMM | Shapeshifter: thanks | 01:24 |
| BCMM | i thought it was japan that had that law | 01:24 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 01:26 | |
| timeless_mbp | companies tend to make products such that they won't get in trouble w/ major governments | 01:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | and such that their customers won't complain about having their products seized at national boarders | 01:27 |
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| * timeless_mbp points to the iPad in Israel | 01:27 | |
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| tybollt | no bad timeless_mbp, no ipad | 01:28 |
| tybollt | no | 01:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.pocketpicks.co.uk/index.php/2009/01/27/us-considers-making-cameraphone-shutter-noise-a-legal-requirement/ | 01:28 |
| Shapeshifter | what a joke | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: south korea too :) | 01:29 |
| yuizy_ | :D | 01:29 |
| BCMM | actually, how do they manage wireless spectrum stuff? in theory, it should be possible to get a japanese phone that uses banned wifi channels in the uk | 01:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | BCMM: It dpends. | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: It varies from customs actually inspecting stuff, to not. | 01:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/israel-s-ipad-ban-sparks-media-circus-among-foreign-press-1.284472 | 01:31 |
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| BCMM | i hope it isn't a legal thing | 01:33 |
| BCMM | i mean, there is still every other program that can take v4l snapshots | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | which "it"? | 01:34 |
| Shapeshifter | it's already unbanned anyway | 01:34 |
| BCMM | the noise when taking photos | 01:34 |
| Shapeshifter | I find the israeli macbook shooting incident much more disturbing | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | the noise is most certainly a legal thing | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | companies don't add stupid features w/o regulatory requirements | 01:34 |
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| BCMM | anyway, i don't care so much about that, i just want to listen to music while composing a photo | 01:35 |
| Shapeshifter | http://lilysussman.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/im-sorry-but-we-blew-up-your-laptop-welcome-to-israel/ seriously | 01:35 |
| Shapeshifter | WTFH | 01:35 |
| timeless_mbp | would you like to be required to surrender your phone when you land in Japan? | 01:35 |
| Shapeshifter | I mean, yay, it was a mac and deserved to be shot, but really.... | 01:35 |
| BCMM | timeless_mbp: it may just be because people expect it | 01:35 |
| BCMM | timeless_mbp: i can take silent photos with mplayer | 01:36 |
| BCMM | from what i've heard, israel makes the TSA look friendly | 01:37 |
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| tybollt | timeless_mbp: camera phone noise is required in .jp right? | 01:39 |
| timeless_mbp | and south korea | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall noises being made about it in the UK | 01:40 |
| timeless_mbp | my article above was a .us proposal | 01:40 |
| BCMM | it's ridiculous | 01:40 |
| BCMM | inevitably eay to defeat | 01:40 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: government regulations + ridiculous ? | 01:41 |
| timeless_mbp | never! | 01:41 |
| BCMM | and no phone makes constant sound when shooting video | 01:41 |
| timeless_mbp | unpossible! | 01:41 |
| tybollt | in .jp it apparently became very popular for young boys to photograph up womens skirts | 01:41 |
| timeless_mbp | BCMM: for videos you're required to have a stupid red indicator | 01:41 |
| BCMM | bluetac | 01:41 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 01:41 |
| BCMM | maybe thats a uk thing - adhesive putty | 01:42 |
| pupnik | remember the dumb kids in school? | 01:42 |
| pupnik | they become lawmakers | 01:42 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 01:42 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: like you can't paint over the led or put a piece of tape? :) | 01:42 |
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| BCMM | my point is that it's normal for governments to ignore the competent, but anyone can defeat photo noises | 01:43 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: you can disconnect the audio path on your phone too | 01:43 |
| BCMM | thats the sort of thing you expect lawmakers not to undeerstand | 01:43 |
| BCMM | but everybody understands stickytape | 01:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | I am guessing that using tape is illegal then | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | There are better things for that - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=961876 - with a cam | 01:44 |
| asjWrk | plus I'm guessing no company wants to be known as the "up skirt phone of choice" | 01:44 |
| Shapeshifter | I mean, law makers also say killing is not allowed. yet I *can* use a knife | 01:44 |
| Shapeshifter | does that make the law makers stupid? | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | asj: I disagree. | 01:44 |
| asjWrk | SpeedEvil: who does? :) | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | asjWrk: If a 'Nokla' maker came up with that feature, it might be popular. | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | High intensity IR flash. | 01:45 |
| asjWrk | SpeedEvil: just think the marketing potential... | 01:45 |
| asjWrk | "Is that a nokia up your skirt or you just happy to see me?" in scotland change that to kilt and you're all set... | 01:46 |
| tybollt | Me? I'd settle for a Working! N900 :'''( | 01:46 |
| * SpeedEvil does not own a kilt. | 01:47 | |
| SpeedEvil | I do own a kiln. | 01:48 |
| pupnik | i | 01:48 |
| pupnik | where's that camera click sound stored | 01:48 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: surely google knows? | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: you can replace it with a silent sound. | 01:49 |
| timeless_mbp | you could probably abuse ld_preload and friends to change how camera works | 01:50 |
| timeless_mbp | so that it doesn't lock the audio device :) | 01:51 |
| * SpeedEvil wants to abuse the camera. | 01:51 | |
| BCMM | is there a way to set a different ringtone according to who's calling? | 01:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | BCMM: not an out of the box feature | 01:52 |
| timeless_mbp | it's all just software | 01:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | someone mentioned on friday that they planned to investigate this weekend | 01:53 |
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| pupnik | ah camera sound 3 is nice and quiet. copying it over sound 1 gives a nice quiet tic | 01:54 |
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| javispedro | N900 USB host mode + DisplayLink = win | 01:57 |
| javispedro | well, if only it was a bit more snappy... | 01:57 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 01:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: We're working on it over in #maemo-hostmode-discussion - need kernel peeps though. | 01:59 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: I'm testing it now | 01:59 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: do you actually have a usb displaylink? | 01:59 |
| javispedro | I have a LG L206WU | 01:59 |
| javispedro | which also from now on acts as my self powered hub :) | 01:59 |
| javispedro | I was right; you don't need kernel patches _at all_ for self powered hubs to work | 02:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: what is your protocol for getting it working? | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I never got that working. | 02:01 |
| javispedro | at what level? | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - what are you doing | 02:01 |
| javispedro | I've tried too approaches for DL | 02:01 |
| javispedro | x11vnc + vnc2dl | 02:01 |
| javispedro | and | 02:01 |
| javispedro | tightvncserver + vnc2dl | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Ah - sorry | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: usb host | 02:02 |
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| javispedro | unmodified kernel, connect n900 to host, select pc suite (this is important for some reason, I think it's caused by g_mass_storage being an idiot), | 02:02 |
| javispedro | while plugged, | 02:02 |
| javispedro | echo host > /sys/..../musb_hdrc/mode | 02:03 |
| javispedro | echo H > /proc/../musb_hdrc | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 02:03 |
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| javispedro | unplug N900, connect to display | 02:03 |
| javispedro | watch dmesg go by | 02:03 |
| javispedro | done. | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | connect to display? | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 02:03 |
| javispedro | s/display/hub | 02:03 |
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| javispedro | the lg i'm using is both a fully self powered hub (don't cares about vbus) and both displaylink and usb mass storage composite device | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | JAve you tried building displaylink stuff? | 02:04 |
| javispedro | It's working! | 02:05 |
| javispedro | I have pics | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | of displaylink? | 02:05 |
| javispedro | yep | 02:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | working as a display? | 02:05 |
| javispedro | yes. | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Completely, utterly awesome. | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:05 |
| javispedro | it's just _horribly slow_ because there's localhost vnc involved in between | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | There is no inherent reason it should be more than quite slow - AIUI? | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume getting it to not go through vnc is going to be messy though | 02:06 |
| javispedro | yeah, there's a kernel fb driver | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ola javispedro | 02:07 |
| javispedro | but I'm using unmodified kernel, so didn't want to try | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | long time no see | 02:07 |
| javispedro | hi DocScrutinizer | 02:07 |
| javispedro | http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/usb/x11vnc2dlusb.jpg | 02:09 |
| javispedro | pardon the mess :) | 02:09 |
| ohwhyme | that is so hardcore | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 02:10 |
| javispedro | a dream | 02:10 |
| ohwhyme | so you guys got usb host working? | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | ohwhyme: sort-of. | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | ohwhyme: At the moment it's unclear why it can be made to work - the drivers are not clean. | 02:11 |
| ohwhyme | ah okay | 02:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | ohwhyme: It basically needs some tidying of the driver infrastructure, so there is a nice clean way to switch it to USB host. | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Then it needs user-side software. | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | are a coupleof the issues | 02:12 |
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| ohwhyme | thanks | 02:12 |
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| Yaco-FKI | Hi! | 02:13 |
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| Yaco-FKI | someone here is the manteiner/developer of maemo.org? I got some questions about the user integration in that platform. Thanks! | 02:14 |
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| javispedro | using Xvnc: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/usb/xvnc2dlusb.jpg | 02:18 |
| javispedro | (that is full screen distorted osso_notes) | 02:18 |
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| javispedro | in 1280x1024 glory | 02:18 |
| Ikarus | javispedro: that is using the USB OTG statemachine in creative ways right ? | 02:19 |
| javispedro | btw to run maemo-launcher in external $DISPLAY use maemo-summoner /path/to/app.launch | 02:19 |
| javispedro | *maemo-launcher apps | 02:19 |
| javispedro | Ikarus: probably | 02:19 |
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| Ikarus | javispedro: heh | 02:23 |
| Ikarus | javispedro: it's atleast promising | 02:23 |
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| Termana | good morning | 02:26 |
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| PhonicUK | hmm | 02:28 |
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| Macer | spammers are heartless | 02:29 |
| Macer | "Save the orphanage.... i have cancer... send me money" | 02:29 |
| Macer | haha | 02:29 |
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| * Arkenoi wonders why while cpu load during video playback is pretty low, GUI responsibility still sucks big time | 02:36 | |
| satmd | inefficient rendering, but I don't know the cause | 02:36 |
| javispedro | Arkenoi: main bottleneck is gpu bus | 02:38 |
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| Ikarus | btw, anyone checked if there is something happening like non-foreground windows having their associated processes reniced ? | 02:44 |
| Ikarus | because I keep getting the feeling that happens | 02:44 |
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| Arkenoi | javispedro, but how does it cause, say, touchscreen to be non-responsive | 02:45 |
| Arkenoi | ? | 02:45 |
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| Yaco-FKI | someone here is the manteiner/developer of maemo.org? I got some questions about the user integration in that platform. Thanks! | 02:48 |
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| LiraNuna | anyone else tried Opera for N900? | 03:23 |
| pronto | nah, but i tried chromium for n900 | 03:24 |
| budfive | yeah. opera's great | 03:24 |
| LiraNuna | budfive, do you know how to disable the mobile viewing? | 03:25 |
| LiraNuna | all sites shows me their 'mobile' version | 03:26 |
| Ikarus | heh | 03:26 |
| Ikarus | I still need to stick the Firefox UA in microB for that | 03:26 |
| budfive | there's some option in the settings | 03:26 |
| Ikarus | some sites give me the mobile version while they work fine at 800x480 | 03:26 |
| LiraNuna | budfive, "Mobile View" ? | 03:27 |
| LiraNuna | it's ff | 03:27 |
| budfive | look around. there are really very few adjustment knobs in the n900 version of opera. If you can't find it, it's probably not there | 03:27 |
| LiraNuna | *off | 03:27 |
| budfive | yeah. probably mobile view. does it not do what you want? | 03:27 |
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| Ikarus | budfive: mobile view means it tells sites it's Opera Mobile Edition | 03:28 |
| Ikarus | which means you get sites optimised for 120x176 and other teensie tiny displays | 03:28 |
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| budfive | aah. many more settings if you visit opera:config | 03:28 |
| LiraNuna | it's turned off, and I want it off, but sites still give me their shitty mobile version | 03:28 |
| budfive | i see | 03:28 |
| budfive | the sites probably base it on the useragent string | 03:29 |
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| budfive | opera:config likely lets you change it | 03:29 |
| budfive | let m e see | 03:29 |
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| pigeon | is there another mail client for the n900 apart from modest and claws? | 03:30 |
| Ikarus | I just run mutt on it, but I am probably more then slightly mad | 03:30 |
| pigeon | :) | 03:31 |
| budfive | I set "spoof useragent id" to 2, and the agent string is now "Mozilla/5.0 (Linux armv7l; U; Maemo; Opera Mobi/1; en; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6 Opera 10.00" | 03:31 |
| budfive | :) Maybe this is sufficient. oh man | 03:31 |
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| LiraNuna | oh, 2 | 03:33 |
| budfive | id 3 is "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Linux armv7l; Maemo; Opera Mobi/1; en) Opera 10.00" | 03:33 |
| LiraNuna | haha MSIE :3 | 03:33 |
| budfive | so yeah. 1 is opera. 2 is mozilla. 3 is MSIE. And I have no idea what the sites you use look for, so these may or may not help you :) | 03:35 |
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| LiraNuna | google.com for once | 03:36 |
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| pigeon | has anyone tried the the gmail mobile java app work on the n900? | 03:59 |
| pigeon | s/work// | 03:59 |
| infobot | pigeon meant: has anyone tried the the gmail mobile java app on the n900? | 03:59 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, trolling for articles now. | 04:01 |
| GAN900 | Lot on Planet. | 04:01 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders if it's possible to file a bug against n900 hardware. | 04:03 | |
| SpeedEvil | I suppose it's largely pointless. | 04:03 |
| LinuxCode | send your device back under guarantee | 04:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | naah - this is pretty trivial | 04:06 |
| pigeon | hmm, every now and then my n900 just auto reboots itself, seems to have something to do with wifi, but anyway, is there a way to find out what the reason is afterwards? log or anything? | 04:09 |
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| ohwhyme | what's opera turbo? | 04:10 |
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| Termana | ohwhyme, that is where you open your n900 and solder on an additional OMAP3430 to the correct pins and it "turbos" your n900 | 04:12 |
| Termana | I keed I keed :P | 04:12 |
| ohwhyme | lol | 04:12 |
| Termana | ohwhyme, really, it sends your data through Opera's data compression servers, making your data smaller and effectively trying to speed up how fast you get the data. | 04:13 |
| Termana | It works on text, images etc. But not stuff like flash | 04:13 |
| ohwhyme | changed the opera:config of the user agent and still cant get the normal view on pages | 04:14 |
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| adalal | how would you sync contacts to google on maemo5? | 04:16 |
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| Termana | ohwhyme, if your using Opera Turbo, its probably whatever Opera has set as their user agent server side that will get displayed to websites. Also if it uses the same protocol as their Opera Mini version, pages can be messed up. | 04:16 |
| Termana | err... assuming they have Opera Turbo built into Opera Mobile for n900/n8x0 | 04:16 |
| ohwhyme | its an option, u can turn it off | 04:17 |
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| GAN900 | Christ, another new damn repo | 04:32 |
| GAN900 | Welcome back to 2008. :/ | 04:32 |
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| Ikarus | Termana: actually interestingly the OMAP3640 seems mostly pin compatible | 04:46 |
| frals | GAN900: which dev is doing it now? | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: opera | 04:46 |
| Ikarus | now I only know one guy who is mad enough to actually perform such surgery on a N900 | 04:47 |
| Ikarus | but still, interesting | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | You need to get a matching POP too | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | which isn't trivial | 04:48 |
| Ikarus | SpeedEvil: he works for Philips, they can get any chip and have insane enough solder monkeys to do it :) | 04:48 |
| Ikarus | (well, just about any chip) | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Or just wire the POP pads to a DIMM socket | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 04:49 |
| Ikarus | SpeedEvil: this was the guy who was willing to get the USB PHY resoldered to hook the ID pin up | 04:49 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders what else besides a 6 instead a 4 the 3640 has | 04:49 | |
| * SpeedEvil almost did that to a laptop. | 04:50 | |
| SpeedEvil | Unsoldered the chipset to get at more CS pins | 04:50 |
| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: 1 Ghz CPU, lower power consumption, newer GPU | 04:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oh, so it is quite different from our 3540 | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | It would make for a really cheap n900+ | 04:50 |
| dotblank | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52857 | 04:51 |
| dotblank | XD | 04:51 |
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| jerkface03 | n900 is the only phone that supports this os? | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer is watching his N900 charge :-) ETA for detonation, errr shutdown of charger now+30min | 04:53 | |
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| slopslaptop | evening fellows and gals | 04:53 |
| jerkface03 | no news of anything newer coming out in the next 6 or 8 months? | 04:53 |
| slopslaptop | how do i patch my kernel | 04:53 |
| slopslaptop | i have a patch file i would like to apply | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | slopslaptop: Setup a toolchain, download the kernel source, patch it, compile. | 04:54 |
| slopslaptop | SpeedEvil, in my maemo vm? | 04:54 |
| slopslaptop | now quite sure what i am doing | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | 03:49 4169 96 96 102 1975 1975 1975 64 65535 32 0 | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | 03:49 4169 100 100 101 2050 2050 2050 0 65535 32 0 | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | http://linuxdocs.org/HOWTOs/Kernel-HOWTO-6.html | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | see that slopslaptop | 04:55 |
| slopslaptop | looking now | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - I think that means you still have rs=30 DocScrutinizer | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup probably | 04:56 |
| slopslaptop | SpeedEvil, thanks i will take a look at the link | 04:57 |
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| slopslaptop | do i need to set up any thing special on my laptop for the env other than the vm? | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I have no idea how it's setup | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | I imagine not | 04:58 |
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| slopslaptop | ok | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | What are you attempting to do? | 04:58 |
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| slopslaptop | i have a wl1251-monitor-mode.diff patch that i would like to apply to my n900 | 04:59 |
| slopslaptop | so that i cna get it in to monitor mode | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | you could also try to convince one of the people putting out custom kernels to jam it in | 04:59 |
| slopslaptop | and not quite sure what i need to do it with | 04:59 |
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| slopslaptop | its in titan's power kernel but again not sure what i need to do to get it to load | 05:00 |
| slopslaptop | SpeedEvil, got the information from here http://david.gnedt.eu/blog/ | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh monitor mode 8-) | 05:01 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, I don't want to do a writeup on Android. :( | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | *working* monitor mode | 05:01 |
| slopslaptop | DocScrutinizer, supposidly | 05:01 |
| slopslaptop | thats why i want to try it | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | finally all 11 chan :-D | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | err 13 | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | 12 | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah | 05:02 |
| SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/416/ | 05:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Now all we need is the user-side software | 05:02 |
| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: I want all 14 and being able to run g on channel 14 | 05:03 |
| Ikarus | fuck laws :) | 05:03 |
| Ikarus | but the firmware locks that sort of stuff out | 05:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ROTFL | 05:03 |
| Ikarus | TI is a bit too careful | 05:04 |
| slopslaptop | so that is what i am trying to do just not sure what steps i need to do | 05:04 |
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| slopslaptop | can anyone point me in the direction that i need to go | 05:04 |
| SpeedEvil | slopslaptop: the above, and the sdk should get you there | 05:05 |
| slopslaptop | ok thanks man | 05:05 |
| slopslaptop | if i have any more questions ill be back | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | (user side sw) and the agents | 05:05 |
| Ikarus | btw, the number of ARM processors inside the N900 is just silly | 05:06 |
| Ikarus | it has something like 6 of the little buggers | 05:07 |
| Ken-Young | Ikarus, Where are the other ARMs, apart from the main SoC? | 05:07 |
| Ikarus | Ken-Young: there are _3_ in the SoC | 05:08 |
| digitalstimulus | does anyone know of a severe weather alert application for maemo? | 05:08 |
| Ikarus | Ken-Young: one in the DSP and one in the GPU aswell | 05:08 |
| Ikarus | Ken-Young: and then the wifi chip, GPS chip and GSM chip contain one aswell | 05:08 |
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| digitalstimulus | or...where to get started for developers new to maemo | 05:08 |
| Ikarus | some are only ARM 7, but some are quite featureful ARM 9's, like in the DSP | 05:09 |
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| Ken-Young | Ikarus, Thanks for the info. | 05:11 |
| Ikarus | Ken-Young: the only one you can access though is the DSP one | 05:11 |
| Ikarus | and only that by changing the DSP bridge driver and loading a custom firmware | 05:12 |
| Ikarus | the others are either with burned in firmware or DRMed ones | 05:12 |
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| ShadowJK | and with no (sensible way to) access main ram | 05:12 |
| Ikarus | the DSP actually can do that | 05:13 |
| Ikarus | the GPU one aswell probably | 05:13 |
| Ikarus | but you can't stuff custom code in it | 05:13 |
| Ikarus | the others, the GSM one runs it's own complete OS essentially with multitasking (though cooperative) | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | bt/wifi | 05:15 |
| Ken-Young | Did Nokia write the code for the GSM one? | 05:15 |
| Ikarus | Ken-Young: from what I understood, no | 05:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's unclear | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably TI | 05:16 |
| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: TI doesn't build GSM chips anymore | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, zehjotkah | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | The chipset for the modem is AIUI TI | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I could be confused | 05:16 |
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| ShadowJK | yes | 05:17 |
| Ikarus | but it's interesting to see how the N900 (like all smartphones actually) is a PDA glued to a GSM phone | 05:17 |
| ShadowJK | It's a nokia modem afaik? | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ikarus, it's a PDA? | 05:17 |
| Ikarus | GeneralAntilles: imo yes :) | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ikarus, I'd say Internet Tablet would be far more accurate. | 05:17 |
| Ikarus | no matter what marketing Nokia uses | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quite frankly, though, it's really a COMPUTER glued to a GSM modem. | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Considering that it's damn near incapable of doing any PDA-like functions | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Describing it as a PDA seems . . . interesting. | 05:18 |
| Ikarus | GeneralAntilles: that just depends on your software | 05:18 |
| Ikarus | mine is pretty PDAish | 05:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | "PDA" is all about software. | 05:18 |
| Ikarus | it succesfully replaced my PDA aswell :) | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really, though, it's a term better left in the 90s. | 05:18 |
| Ikarus | in my naughties it was still a quite apropriate term | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: RAPU YAMA is hard to tell, neven seen that fried chicken logo | 05:20 |
| ShadowJK | I think "rapuyama" is a .fi name for a flintstones character... and "RAPU" means crawfish/crab/lobster or something in finnish, and the logo looks a bit like that.. | 05:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I was going off the TI GPS, which was implied in its datasheet that it connects to a TI baseband | 05:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fred and Barney | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | lobster, yeah! actually... | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | 04:23 4174 100 100 49 2050 2050 2050 0 65535 32 0 | 05:23 |
| ShadowJK | But on meego-dev mailing list in the n900 open-kernel thread the nokia people refer to it as a nokia modem too, so ;p | 05:23 |
| * DocScrutinizer sighs | 05:23 | |
| ShadowJK | (and business analysts criticize nokia for developing their own modems instead of buying them) | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 05:24 |
| Ikarus | ShadowJK: it's quite possibly they still bought most of the IP externally | 05:24 |
| Ikarus | just finalized their own device based on it | 05:24 |
| Ikarus | imo that doesn't make it a Nokia design | 05:24 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.forum.gsmrapid.com/showthread.php?t=4957 | 05:25 |
| Ikarus | it's like calling the OMAP3430 CPU a TI device | 05:25 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if Nokia CS-15 uses the same modem :) | 05:25 |
| Ikarus | sure, they might have integrated it, but no, it's not even close to being from TI | 05:25 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.visualcv.com/fgoeusse | 05:27 |
| SpeedEvil | is interesting wrt modem | 05:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually the modem has everything to build a featurephone with it | 05:28 |
| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: ofcourse | 05:28 |
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| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: probably stuck in a simpeler package though | 05:29 |
| Ikarus | so it's a little more compact | 05:29 |
| Ikarus | but I'd assume even the die is the same | 05:29 |
| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: actually it's what differentiates the two | 05:30 |
| digitalstimulus | Is there a getting started guide of sorts for developing for Diablo in ubuntu 64 bit? | 05:31 |
| Ikarus | the featurephone has the UI and GSM stack in a single processor, the smartphone seperates the two | 05:31 |
| Ikarus | I find it amuzing that the N900 got GSM certified though even though appaerently it doesn't offer the SIM secure channel system | 05:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SIM secure channel? | 05:37 |
| dotblank | Whats that? | 05:38 |
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| Ikarus | it's a way for the SIM card to interact with the user (display and keypad) without the OS or any other app being able to eavesdrop | 05:45 |
| Ikarus | ofcourse nearly impossible to implement on a device like the N900 | 05:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm happy N900 doesn't have SIM application Toolkit | 05:47 |
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| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: it actually does | 05:48 |
| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: but you can't even get near it :) | 05:49 |
| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: I find it slightly annoying | 05:49 |
| Ikarus | you know how crypto smartcards and SIMs actually use the same hardware ? | 05:49 |
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| Ikarus | you can combine both on a single card with some effort and convincing of operators | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | wel maybe the modem actually has, but phonet doesn't support | 05:49 |
| Ikarus | and given that I need a cryptosmartcard for some work applications :( | 05:50 |
| Ikarus | now I am looking at those bluetooth cardreaders | 05:50 |
| Ikarus | and hoping I can get those working on Linux | 05:50 |
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| Macer | ugh | 05:59 |
| Macer | have to type all my contacts in by hand from google to my zimbra server | 05:59 |
| Macer | what a pain | 05:59 |
| Macer | someone needs to make a zimbra connector for mameo :) | 05:59 |
| Macer | maemo | 05:59 |
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| hawai`i | ruskie: your fcron package is old and has the suid bug, kind sir. | 06:09 |
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| Macer | hm. does yahoo use jabber/xmpp? | 06:12 |
| hawai`i | No. | 06:13 |
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| Macer | damn that sucks :0 | 06:16 |
| Macer | :) | 06:16 |
| Macer | i figured by now most of the larger services would have given up on the proprietary im stuff | 06:16 |
| hawai`i | woah | 06:16 |
| Macer | i remember hearing a while back that yahoo was going to try to swap over but i guess i'm wrong | 06:16 |
| Macer | hm | 06:17 |
| Macer | seems like they are using xmpp but not opening s2s | 06:18 |
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| hawai`i | argh | 06:22 |
| Tobarja_N810 | can i have a app shortcut that prompts for a parameter before running? (i want to allow a changeable url to be passed at runtime to a shell script) | 06:22 |
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| hawai`i | what the hell is sgr_misr? | 06:29 |
| hawai`i | ^sgx_misr? | 06:29 |
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| hawai`i | it's auto respawning and chewing through cycles like a bitch | 06:30 |
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| hawai`i | Hm. | 06:37 |
| hawai`i | root can't change profiles through dbus? | 06:37 |
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| hawai`i | Nevermind, ?I am stupid | 06:40 |
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| omar | test | 06:43 |
| omar | lame | 06:43 |
| omar | can't talk in the mysql channel | 06:43 |
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| Macer | there is an irc plugin for telepathy? | 06:50 |
| Macer | :) | 06:50 |
| Macer | i should try that out but i'm sure it's on dev | 06:50 |
| asjWrk | there is, and it is | 06:51 |
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| asjWrk | it can't join channels though | 06:51 |
| Macer | it can't join channels? :) haha | 06:51 |
| Macer | wtf? | 06:51 |
| asjWrk | private chat only | 06:51 |
| Macer | what good is that? :) | 06:51 |
| asjWrk | well it was when I tried it like 6mo ago | 06:51 |
| Macer | oh | 06:51 |
| Macer | well. i might try it out tomorrow | 06:51 |
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| Macer | i'm still getting ioquake and openarena all set up | 06:52 |
| Macer | heh. the controls took me a moment to figure out. i guess it uses the phone as a controller | 06:52 |
| Macer | but it runs rather well for something being on a phone. just need to find someone else with an n900 tomorrow and play against them | 06:52 |
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| Macer | i seriously need to just ban all of hinet.net from my server | 06:54 |
| Macer | hinet.net is fail | 06:54 |
| Macer | tds.net is as well | 06:54 |
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| pigeon | Macer: what's wrong with hinet.net? | 07:24 |
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| Funnyfacemob | has anyone got audio working in easy debian? | 07:41 |
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| opdf2 | anyone in hspa+ territory? | 07:59 |
| dmj726 | hspa+ is 3.5g right? | 07:59 |
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| opdf2 | + is more like 3.75 | 08:04 |
| dmj726 | then I;m not sure | 08:05 |
| opdf2 | are u in 3.5 territory? | 08:05 |
| dmj726 | often, yes | 08:06 |
| dmj726 | ...don't think the device lists 3.75 in the indicator | 08:06 |
| otubo | Any one acquainted with maemo packaging? I am trying to understand how to write the correct rules in order to install my app in the correct path. | 08:07 |
| opdf2 | i know, just wanted to know if hspa+ deployment will improve 3.5 latency | 08:07 |
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| opdf2 | i should just go 4g evo =P | 08:07 |
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| dmj726 | I'm not sur | 08:10 |
| dmj726 | *sure | 08:10 |
| lucent | away afk | 08:11 |
| dmj726 | I did find something very interesting about Maemo extras and the long tail. | 08:11 |
| dmj726 | The tail appears to be *very* fat. | 08:12 |
| dmj726 | In fact calling it a tail would be silly. | 08:12 |
| dmj726 | The games section isn't even particularly exponential. A linear curve fits it better. | 08:13 |
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| pigeon | is it safe to uninstall those preinstalled language package that i don't need on the n900? | 08:14 |
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| desu | pigeon, yep | 08:17 |
| ptl | you can't | 08:17 |
| ptl | it'll try to uninstall base packages | 08:17 |
| desu | o.O base packages depend on language packs? | 08:17 |
| ptl | yeah... don't ask me why | 08:17 |
| desu | it should be the other way round O.o | 08:18 |
| pigeon | hmm, you're right, it's like a meta package i think... | 08:18 |
| pigeon | uninstalling osso-calculator-ui-l10n-svse wants to uninstall osso-calculator, for instance. | 08:18 |
| ptl | [root@n900 /root]% apt-get remove rtcom-messaging-ui-l10n-cscz | 08:18 |
| ptl | (...) | 08:18 |
| ptl | The following packages will be REMOVED: | 08:18 |
| ptl | rtcom-messaging-ui rtcom-messaging-ui-l10n-cscz rtcom-messaging-ui-l10n-mr0 rtcom-notification-ui | 08:18 |
| ptl | see? | 08:18 |
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| ptl | if you try to uninstall some random language pack, it uninstall the whole set | 08:19 |
| ptl | yes | 08:19 |
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| pigeon | dpkg -L osso-calculator shows it has nothing much in it | 08:19 |
| pigeon | same for mp-fremantle-002-pr | 08:19 |
| pigeon | but that does feel scary. | 08:20 |
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| ptl | that probably screws up lots of stuff. | 08:20 |
| ptl | I won't try to see if it does. :) | 08:20 |
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| * RST38h trolls on | 08:33 | |
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| pupnik | dmj726: can you rephrase what you want to say about 'the long tail'? | 08:47 |
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| dmj726 | sure | 08:47 |
| dmj726 | pupnik: are you familiar with the long tail theory? | 08:47 |
| pupnik | no | 08:47 |
| pupnik | maybe you can pretend i am a machine translator not familiar with jargon | 08:48 |
| dmj726 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Tail | 08:48 |
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| dmj726 | take a look at the picture in the corner, and see how there are a few popular items and many items with a small audience? | 08:48 |
| dmj726 | http://blog.appsfire.com/100k-apps-announced-today-only-by-apple-not-a | 08:49 |
| dmj726 | that's what the iphone app store looked like at 100k apps | 08:49 |
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| dmj726 | Maemo's tail is very fat and stubby | 08:50 |
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| pupnik | i haven't seen the distribution | 08:51 |
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| dmj726 | I was just making a couple graphs | 08:51 |
| RST38h | pupnik: "Long tail" is a popular rhetorical device used by open source advocates to justify the business model of free software and services | 08:51 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: And no, apparently it does not work. | 08:51 |
| pupnik | what explains why things like "24" exist and "Firefly" got cancelled. | 08:52 |
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| pupnik | sorry that's offtopic territory | 08:53 |
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| RST38h | Among other things, yes | 08:53 |
| RST38h | Although that was most likely due to investors who knew that the long tail was not gonna work =) | 08:54 |
| dmj726 | I'm not concerned with how it works, more in the distribution of maemo extras being peculiar | 08:55 |
| dmj726 | http://imagebin.org/97155 | 08:55 |
| dmj726 | that's the number of downloads of each game ranked by popularity | 08:56 |
| RST38h | where are games 12 through 20 though? | 08:56 |
| dmj726 | ...laziness | 08:56 |
| RST38h | so you do not really know what is going on in those spaces? | 08:57 |
| dmj726 | you can assume that they were downloaded less than number 11 and more than 21 | 08:57 |
| dmj726 | I know, I just didn't record them | 08:57 |
| pupnik | what is on the X axis? | 08:57 |
| dmj726 | the ranking by number of downloads | 08:58 |
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| pupnik | there must be an app in rank 13,14,15,16 | 08:59 |
| pupnik | i don't understand the holes | 08:59 |
| dmj726 | http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/games/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=1 | 08:59 |
| dmj726 | http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/games/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=2 | 08:59 |
| dmj726 | http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/games/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=3 | 08:59 |
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| dmj726 | I copied the values by hand into open office. | 08:59 |
| dmj726 | then I got lazy. | 08:59 |
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| dmj726 | so the holes aren't really meaningful. | 09:00 |
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| pupnik | well it is kind of interesting to me anyway, thanks | 09:00 |
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| dmj726 | app 15 for instance has 34611 downloads | 09:01 |
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| dmj726 | The distribution between iphone and maemo extras is pretty intense | 09:01 |
| Termana | dmj726, so what, the theory is that people are downloading a lot of one app and not the others? (At least on the Apple chart, Maemo extras looks like it goes steady and then starts crashing down) | 09:02 |
| dmj726 | though I would expect to see more iphone like distribution if we had that many apps | 09:02 |
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| RST38h | We do not have that many (200000+) apps | 09:02 |
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| RST38h | As result, we do not have that many (199000+) fake "apps" | 09:03 |
| RST38h | Hence is the distribution | 09:03 |
| dmj726 | yeah, aside from a few superstar games that get a 20% boost (still pretty small) and a few duds, it's a linear distribution almost. | 09:03 |
| dmj726 | I'd also think that quality plays a factor here, there are very few "me too!" apps that get little attention. | 09:04 |
| RST38h | Remember, no ebooks and websites disguised as "apps", no fart apps, no 1000 varieties of tictactoe | 09:04 |
| dmj726 | In multimedia there is an exponential curve, but it's still a very fat tail, unlike the iphone's razor thin tail | 09:05 |
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| dmj726 | I think that bodes well for the overall utility of the apps in extras given the limited number of apps | 09:06 |
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| RST38h | you are swapping cause and effect here | 09:06 |
| RST38h | the tail is fat BECAUSE of the apps utility, not the vice versa | 09:06 |
| dmj726 | I know | 09:06 |
| RST38h | For iPhone, it has long stopped to be about the apps | 09:07 |
| dmj726 | I'm using the distribution as an indicator of the utility | 09:07 |
| RST38h | It is about visibility | 09:07 |
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| Termana | RST38h, Right, I would argue Apple's App Store encourages people to aim for visibility as well | 09:08 |
| Termana | With their Top Free, Top Paid and Top Grossing sections | 09:08 |
| * RST38h ==> work | 09:08 | |
| RST38h | Termana: "encourages" is not the right term | 09:08 |
| dmj726 | With 200k apps it's hard to get a good app noticed | 09:08 |
| dmj726 | necessitates | 09:09 |
| RST38h | Termana: Imagine a "store" with 10k+ goodies, of which the customers can easily see only 100 (no matter how selected) | 09:09 |
| RST38h | Termana: If you are a developer, this is about the worst place where you can present your application | 09:09 |
| RST38h | Termana: At the prices of $1..$5 (of which Apple takes 30%), this becomes unsustainable | 09:10 |
| dmj726 | All of the apps in extras are highly visible to any user looking for apps | 09:10 |
| RST38h | Termana: So, how do you make it sustainable? A few possibilities | 09:10 |
| Termana | wow, I think my internet just went for a laggy ride - all of that just came in | 09:11 |
| RST38h | Termana: 1) Do not develop apps. Take free content, wrap it into a standard wrapper, upload it to the store as an "app". This way you can saturate the store with your "apps" swaying probability laws in your favor | 09:11 |
| dmj726 | The reason I don't download game number 63 (vectormine) has nothing to do with me not knowing about it. | 09:11 |
| RST38h | Termana: 2) Use the Chinese. A 100 Chinese students will crank "iPhone apps" at a pretty good rate, and you do not have to pay them a lot | 09:11 |
| RST38h | Termana: Of course, those will all be crappy me-too apps, but you are not working on development here, you are working on beating the probabilities | 09:12 |
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| RST38h | Termana: 3) Create wrappers around RSS feeds and websites. Again, one/two standard wrappers will let you crank many, many iPhone apps | 09:12 |
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| RST38h | And at this receipt to iPhone business profitability, I am heading to work :) | 09:13 |
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| dmj726 | 4) Develop one of the very few "must have" apps...the probabilities do not favor this one. | 09:13 |
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| dotblank | How do you post a program to extras? | 09:14 |
| dotblank | or extras devel | 09:14 |
| pupnik | LMAO RST38h Vulture's Eye with 37244 downloads ... | 09:14 |
| pupnik | and how many testers/voters? | 09:15 |
| dmj726 | what's so funny about that? | 09:15 |
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| pupnik | game players must be the lowest form of life on the planet ;) | 09:15 |
| dmj726 | you mean it couldn't get testers? | 09:16 |
| pupnik | yeah | 09:16 |
| dmj726 | dotblank: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 09:16 |
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| dmj726 | I'm always happy to test if I know an app I'm using is in testing | 09:18 |
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| pigeon | hmm... http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/news/wine-running-on-a-nokia-n900.html | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | no, wine goes in the user | 09:41 |
| pigeon | ;) | 09:41 |
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| adeus | that's the worst camera usage I've seen in a while | 09:51 |
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| pigeon | quite | 09:51 |
| Stskeeps | yes, he even beats my camera | 09:51 |
| adeus | he has a future in UFO filming | 09:51 |
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| Kamui | wow, latest power kernel borked sound for a bunch of users | 10:02 |
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| Kamui | luckily i didnt do my updates yet | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 10:02 |
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| biertie | anyone experience with madde & QT-creator on fedora? | 10:10 |
| Corsac | grmbl | 10:10 |
| alterego | biertie: not on Fedora, but what's your problem? | 10:11 |
| biertie | alterego: I get this error when I try to build it: Packaging Error: Command 'dh_make -s -n -p fotozoektocht_0.1' failed. | 10:11 |
| Corsac | media player doesn't seem to understand the “discnumber” tag >< | 10:12 |
| biertie | so, I guess it deploys on my laptop, in stead of my n900 | 10:12 |
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| alterego | biertie: I think it's because you don't have debian development packages. | 10:12 |
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| biertie | so, it is build on my laptop, right? | 10:13 |
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| alterego | biertie: not sure, | 10:14 |
| alterego | biertie: if it's been built the binaries should be in the project directory. | 10:15 |
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| alterego | But I think madde relies on dpkg-buildpackage for building/packaging. | 10:15 |
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| pupnik | http://www.flickr.com/photos/handful/sets/72157615126728508/ you guys remember Marcelo Eduardo (maemo)? Check out these pics from the OpenBossa conference (moon over ocean) http://www.flickr.com/photos/handful/sets/72157615126728508/ | 10:54 |
| pupnik | oop | 10:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | that isn't a render? | 11:01 |
| keesj | Hello | 11:01 |
| pupnik | looks crazy eh | 11:01 |
| pupnik | hi keesjellybeans | 11:01 |
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| tybollt | damn | 11:05 |
| tybollt | I literally walked into a door this morning | 11:05 |
| tybollt | big ass ugly bump in my forehead | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | that sounds like something i do | 11:06 |
| frals | :D | 11:06 |
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| tybollt | frals: :P | 11:06 |
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| pupnik | "Milking cash from the strategically dumbed down ringtone generation" -pycage | 11:08 |
| keesj | I am having a hard time trying to keep up with maemo/meego! | 11:08 |
| tybollt | 7msg pupnik sorry what was your bank account # again? | 11:09 |
| tybollt | keesj: HUH? | 11:09 |
| tybollt | there's nothing to keep up w/ ffs | 11:09 |
| Appiah | O_o | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | keesj: mwkn.net | 11:10 |
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| keesj | I do real mwkn sometimes | 11:11 |
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| Termana | read* | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | other than that, talk.maemo.org/thankedposts.php | 11:11 |
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| tybollt | so what's so hard to keep up w/? The absolutely astonighingly massive flood of firmware updates? | 11:12 |
| pupnik | that always comes up as a blank page here Stskeeps | 11:12 |
| Termana | mwkn.net was obviously a strategic name grab | 11:12 |
| tybollt | Or all those apps waiting to get an update but can't because people updated their SDK which in effect is hampering development rather than furthering it :) | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: WORKSFORME | 11:13 |
| Termana | If they included Maemo's name in the url - they would have been locked out of providing MeeGo news | 11:13 |
| tybollt | s/people/developers/ :) | 11:13 |
| Termana | but just using an m - they can change to MeeGo Weekly News | 11:13 |
| Termana | hey hey, impressive hey, hey | 11:13 |
| Termana | I'm smart *honks nose* | 11:14 |
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| keesj | For example what happend to the developers devices returns. I did not hear any noice about that. | 11:15 |
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| Stskeeps | well you should do what you have in your contract or mail quim and ask if you can keep it, with reasons why you should | 11:16 |
| solrize | from a maemo hacker point of view, is symbian any good? | 11:17 |
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| tybollt | solrize: that's a weird question... Considering Maemo is a full Linux and symbian is symbian - no, you're not likely to like symbian I suppose. However - if you're fine w/ more of "just works" and less of "DIY", then yeah sure. | 11:18 |
| MohammadAG | from a previous symbian user, symbian is crap | 11:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | solrize: i've sent patches to symbian | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | the experience as a hacker there is awful | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | otoh, i believe some of my patches were accepted | 11:21 |
| solrize | thanks, i was just wondering because there's still a lot of symbian phones | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i've also filed bugs against their web team | 11:21 |
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| solrize | heh | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | their web team is friendly | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | and helpful, and is really trying | 11:21 |
| MohammadAG | maemo isn't a mainstream system (yet - according to nokia) | 11:22 |
| solrize | and if i can dare ask, what about android? | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | iow, their infrastructure is young and wants to improve | 11:22 |
| Tuukka | WebOS for N900 would be cool :D http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/16/webos-booted-up-on-a-pc-just-for-kicks/ | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | i've sent patches to android | 11:22 |
| MohammadAG | no idea about that | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | i've sent patches to android, but they're bureaucratic | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and so my patch wasn't accepted because my employer got in our way | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | a similar problem actually exists for symbian | 11:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | w/ symbian, if you work for a symbian entity, you have to validate your account monthly | 11:23 |
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| Termana | MohammadAG, I would suggest that Symbian is no longer mainstream. If only for the fact that it no longer holds general mindshare. | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo/meego do not seem to have this requirement | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | meego has this incredibly annoying "confirm your attachment is CC<whatever>" | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i've filed a bug about that too (w/in the past 24 hours), we'll see how that goes | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | … yes, i like testing waters | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | i've also sent patches to a whole bunch of other random projects :) | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | (some were upstreams of symbian) | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd say that android, symbian and meego seem to be relatively similar | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | they all have a bureaucratic layer | 11:24 |
| pupnik | "Android execution environment on Maemo (or any Linux at all, for that matter) is hard - even if you get the Dalvik VM running you've still got a lot of libraries and frameworks that are pretty tightly bound to Android, all the way down to the bare metal (all the UI rendering stuff depends on the Android framebuffer, compositor, and EGL, which in turn depend on Android-only kernel features - not to mention all of the desktop monitoring features that are | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | they all have some form of module owners | 11:25 |
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| solrize | yeah i wondered how android as an OS compared with linux for embedded hw | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | symbian and meego's owners seem to live in caves | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | and there's no good way to figure out which hill, mountain, range, or continent has those caves | 11:25 |
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| solrize | and i was asking about symbian b/c of the cheap e63's which don't even run the foss version of symbian | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't really cared to poke the android people much | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | my employer prevents significant interaction w/ android | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i do occasionally poke friends @google | 11:26 |
| pupnik | damn google to hell for that design | 11:26 |
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| Termana | timeless_mbp, thats interesting | 11:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | solrize: so… i can also speak about opensolaris | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | of the groups …. opensolaris is the most open imo | 11:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | their module owners appear in public lists and are relatively responsive | 11:27 |
| solrize | ic | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | they do take patches, both large and small | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | they too have a bureaucratic layer | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | but their layer is fairly well documented | 11:27 |
| solrize | but is anyone running it on phone-class hardware? | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | and isn't unreasonable | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | solrize: i'm more of a practice guy | 11:27 |
| Termana | timeless_mbp, Are you restricted BY your employer or BECAUSE OF? | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i hate hardware issues :) | 11:27 |
| solrize | ic | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | Termana: BY | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, about hardware | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | sun recently removed support for hardware which was created around 1990 iirc | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | because it was end of lifed | 11:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | at a certain point, the cost of engineering doing work on ancient hardware | 11:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | for a new os which never promised to support it | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | is expensive | 11:28 |
| solrize | yeah | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | it hurts the ability of the core team to innovate and clean up code | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | and it does various other things | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | you can of course take the deleted code and try to maintain a fork | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | sun doesn't prevent that | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | (i can't speak much for oracle) | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, the reason i'm mentioning sun/opensolaris now | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | is to talk about your e63 | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | basically if the hardware is too old by some metric | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | then it might really not have the features required in order to get a satisfactory experience | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | now, you might have your own opinion about what "satisfactory" means | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | and you might believe that the vendor is interested in vending | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | (since that's how hardware vendors make money) | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | but there is always a cost for supporting old stuff | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | similar problems can be seen when you look at the 770/n800-n810/n900 | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | albeit on a timeline which is much shorter and less comforting | 11:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyway… if a phone costs 600 EUR | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | and you buy a new phone every 2 years | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | then it costs 300 EUR / year | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | and 100 EUR / trimester | 11:32 |
| solrize | i wouldn't buy a 600 eur phone that often | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | and 25 EUR / month | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | how much is your phone plan / month? | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | my phone bill can easily be > 100 EUR / month | 11:32 |
| solrize | mine? about 7 usd/month | 11:32 |
| * zash slaps timeless_mbp with a >9 year old 3310 | 11:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | heck, I don't think I've had a phone bill in the last 4 years that was < 100 EUR / month | 11:32 |
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| solrize | ouch | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | solrize: corporate plan | 11:33 |
| solrize | i thought phone rates in europe were much better than in the us | 11:33 |
| jaska | international calls i bet... they overcharge for those through the nose | 11:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | i've gone over 3000 EUR in a single month | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | jaska: roaming is usually my killer actually | 11:33 |
| solrize | ouch... all data? | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | solrize: typically, yeah | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | that was roaming through Ukraine and points around | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | note that i used 2 cell phones w/ a paired billing | 11:34 |
| jaska | mines roughly 20eur/4mo, new phones around 3-4 years apart | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | so it was more like 2500 EUR + 500 EUR | 11:34 |
| solrize | still seems like a big scam.... a 5gb data plan is about 50 usd/month here, with domestic roaming but not international | 11:34 |
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| Wolfie | solrize: that's... expensive | 11:34 |
| solrize | anyway yeah if you're spending that much on service then a new phone is not expensive | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | solrize: from my perspective, anyone who claims european plans are good is a naive redneck | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | the fact is that your plan lets you travel so much further w/o "roaming" | 11:35 |
| jaska | if you stick in one country they can :) | 11:35 |
| Wolfie | a finnish data plan with unlimited data (but 300kbp-ish connection) is about 10e/mth | 11:35 |
| solrize | i thought the u.s. sucked the most, then europe is better than the us and then asia is better than europe | 11:35 |
| timeless_mbp | jaska: a redneck is someone who doesn't leave their backwater county | 11:35 |
| Wolfie | but no data plan includes data roaming, afaik | 11:35 |
| timeless_mbp | european countries are sometimes the size of counties :) | 11:35 |
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| jaska | yeah, mines roughly a half-texas :) | 11:35 |
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| Wolfie | but texas is a state.. texas has several counties (or their equivalents, don't know the local terminology) | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway… an american can also call 350million people w/o hitting "international" calling | 11:36 |
| jaska | also whats hilarious is that teliasonera charges for roaming when going swe->fin or fin->swe | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | Wolfie: i'm slightly abusing things | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | Wolfie: you wouldn't be a redneck if you traveled to a bunch of states | 11:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | but in my view, someone in europe who doesn't leave their country can easily be qualified as a redneck | 11:37 |
| Wolfie | timeless_mbp: i know what you meant | 11:37 |
| Wolfie | just poking around | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | so i kinda have to compare country to county | 11:37 |
| solrize | most us plans are for conus (48 states not including alaska and hawaii) i think | 11:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | solrize: ok, 320million people instead? :) | 11:37 |
| solrize | nah, nobody lives in those 2 states ;) | 11:38 |
| solrize | i think us population is around 300m ? | 11:38 |
| timeless_mbp | that's still a fairly big delta relative to say 30million people in some european country :) | 11:38 |
| Wolfie | i was just commenting on that... alaska + hawaii hardly adds up to 30mil | 11:38 |
| Wolfie | although, wikipedia would prove me very quickly wrong, i suspect | 11:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | Population, United States307,006,550 - Jul 2009 | 11:38 |
| timeless_mbp | from google | 11:38 |
| solrize | i think .fi has cheap data transfer because population density is lower so spectrum is less valuable | 11:38 |
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| jaska | also im enough off-center in .fi that theres only 2g for my provider... well, atleast that makes the n900 battery last longer | 11:39 |
| timeless_mbp | solrize: fwiw, elisa (one of the two bigger companies) has terrible cell service where i work | 11:39 |
| solrize | and china has cheap voice rates because everybody is poor so they can't scam as much | 11:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i believe it's too many subscribers in one building | 11:39 |
| timeless_mbp | we actually got a semi official note about it recently | 11:39 |
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| * timeless_mbp was really surprised | 11:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | yes, residential population density isn't high | 11:40 |
| solrize | i kinda decided to not buy an n900 b/c the hardware is too slow to keep up with the camera from what i can tell... i had wanted to write photo and video apps for it | 11:40 |
| jaska | its all bunched up in a couple cities | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but commercial density is apparently a bit too high :) | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | from memory 3g coverage in finland isn't nationwide | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | it's centered around the major cities | 11:41 |
| Wolfie | that's true | 11:41 |
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| jaska | back in the 90s i used to get bad service during largeish events in hell-sink-i | 11:41 |
| Wolfie | EDGE is a bit further than the cities, but that's still not 100% | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway... | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | again, the point is that when people say "european plans are great, and cheaper and better" | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | they're missing things | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | sure, i can call 5.2million local subscribers | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | none of whom I'd like to speak to | 11:42 |
| jaska | (haha) | 11:42 |
| solrize | lol | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | otoh, solrize can call 300million people | 11:42 |
| jaska | same goes for the natives | 11:42 |
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| solrize | i think finland has much better home broadband than what we have here | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | the value proposition is thus significantly different | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | solrize: depends | 11:42 |
| jaska | iirc cellphone coverage is somewhat spotty in the usa | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | broadband doesn't tend to go to lake houses | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | unless you wire it yourself | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | or something | 11:42 |
| solrize | well here too, coverage isn't everywhere | 11:42 |
| solrize | but even in the cities except for a few places 6mbps is about the best you can get | 11:43 |
| jaska | also broadband is good only in major cities, im stuck with 8Mbit/1Mbit dsl here | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | solrize: so, there's another misconception | 11:43 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: pffft | 11:43 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: there are copperwires even to lake houses | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | if you get 6mbps to your local akamai | 11:43 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: you can use *DSL too, I promise... | 11:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | tybollt: what if i want cable tv? :) | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | and you get 3mbps to most american companies | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | because the national routing is better | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | then compare that to someone here who can get 24mbps to their local PoP | 11:44 |
| solrize | i thought everyone had 100 mbit fiber there | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but can't get remotely useful connections anywhere | 11:44 |
| tybollt | s/cable/sat/ | 11:44 |
| tybollt | duuuh :) | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: but we were talking about broadband | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone in the US can get sat too :) | 11:45 |
| tybollt | oh | 11:45 |
| tybollt | IPTV? | 11:45 |
| tybollt | ye? | 11:45 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: tssk tssk - such newfangled thingamajigs... | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: so i can watch YLE? | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks, but I want SiFi | 11:45 |
| tybollt | Jo helveti - YLE ftw! We get YLE in .se ffs :) | 11:45 |
| jaska | tv? whats that anyway | 11:45 |
| Stskeeps | ssh to a box in the US and use hulu.. | 11:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | sure and break national laws | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | great plan | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway... | 11:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | the point is that just because i have a good connection (in theory) in my apt | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | doesn't mean it's useful | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i actually checked the numbers, i think i'm supposed to have a 12 or 24 connection | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | but from memory, the numbers i ran yesterday were closer to 6 | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | for useful service | 11:47 |
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| jaska | noisy line? | 11:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | on ADSL? | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | nah | 11:47 |
| * timeless_mbp should have saved the results | 11:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | jaska: besides | 11:48 |
| jaska | overprovisioning? | 11:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | if i complain, i'll be told to buy my own replacement cables | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | and do lots of other random tests | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | in order to avoid a 30EUR fine | 11:48 |
| jaska | oh, my telco gave me a second copper pair when i whined | 11:48 |
| jaska | and redid my house internal wiring for free | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | really? | 11:49 |
| jaska | yup | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | wow | 11:49 |
| Wolfie | wow | 11:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | my experience w/ welho has been that they like to threaten to fine me | 11:49 |
| jaska | i didnt expect them to do the internal wiring but i was \o/ | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | and have no interest in giving useful service | 11:49 |
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| Wolfie | timeless_mbp: thought of switching to something more customer friendly? | 11:49 |
| jaska | isnt welho somekind of cable modem? | 11:50 |
| Wolfie | i guess welho does a bit of everything nowadays | 11:50 |
| pupnik | finally a chinese netbook with trackpoint http://www.liliputing.com/2010/01/malatas-sony-vaio-p-lookalike-at-ces.html | 11:50 |
| jaska | oh, last i used them (1998) it was 10Mbit cable modem with horrible upload (so bad the upstream bandwidth was consumed by acks and limited download speed) | 11:50 |
| timeless_mbp | Wolfie: you mean from .fi to .us? only when i think about things | 11:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i try not to think too hard | 11:51 |
| timeless_mbp | it's frustrating | 11:51 |
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| solrize | never heard of a thinkpad pupnik? :) | 11:51 |
| timeless_mbp | i have elisa adsl and welho cable tv | 11:51 |
| timeless_mbp | elisa is a company thing | 11:51 |
| pupnik | solrize: i'll sell you some organs for an x200s | 11:51 |
| pupnik | (not my own) | 11:51 |
| timeless_mbp | welho is my own personal mistake | 11:51 |
| jaska | doh, i was planning on getting their 200Mbit if i ever end up in hell again | 11:52 |
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| viliny__ | welho isn't good? | 11:52 |
| Wolfie | timeless_mbp: i meant away from welho | 11:52 |
| solrize | pupnik, you can buy those on forum.thinkpads.com | 11:52 |
| solrize | i might buy an x201s if they become available again | 11:52 |
| viliny__ | Anyone have experience with Turku Cable - Cable connections? | 11:52 |
| solrize | the x100e is more netbook-like | 11:52 |
| pupnik | oww nm, malata wants $588 for that | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | Wolfie: i haven't seen anything that indicates anyone is really much better | 11:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'd need someone to actually promise me decent service before i'd bother | 11:53 |
| pupnik | anybody tried an x100? | 11:53 |
| Wolfie | timeless_mbp: nebula seems to boast with their customer service. You could always require compensation if they screw you over with false advertisement :) | 11:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | i wasted a couple hundred EUR to buy a "top of the line" cable box 4 years ago | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | which has broken down two or three times | 11:53 |
| Wolfie | haven't really heard much complaints about them, other than their hosted servers seem to drop off the interwebs from time to time | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | and whose warranty they insist they've expired | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | in the US, I'd have them on a lemon law violation | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | the box is a lemon | 11:54 |
| tybollt | lemon? | 11:54 |
| solrize | pupnik, i haven't tried one myself but i've heard they are pretty nice to use, main complaint is battery life isn't great | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/ | 11:54 |
| tybollt | pupnik: yeah I have the X60 now and used the X200 in the past - I really want to know what people think of the X100 - I need to upgrade as my X60 is literally comming to pieces... most importantly.. how is the keyboard? | 11:55 |
| solrize | i keep hearing the x100e keyboard is ok even though it looks stupid | 11:55 |
| solrize | it's an apple-like chiclet keyboard | 11:56 |
| tybollt | yeah | 11:56 |
| tybollt | it looks stupid | 11:56 |
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| timeless_mbp1 | This disconnect was brought to you by…. Elisa ADSL | 12:02 |
| * timeless_mbp1 thanks it for its timely demo | 12:03 | |
| timeless_mbp1 | there was no DSL connection according to my WLAN basestation | 12:03 |
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| jaska | speak of the devil. | 12:03 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp: you know I always wondered who the hell Elisa is... | 12:03 |
| tybollt | must be some popular chick in .fi since everyone's using her Internet connection... | 12:04 |
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| pupnik | mmm, x60s, x61s down below 400 euro. forget netbooks... | 12:06 |
| fraggeln | I have a T410i :) | 12:06 |
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| pupnik | http://computer.shop.ebay.de/Notebooks-Netbooks-/28837/i.html?_nkw=thinkpad+x61s&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282 <<< X60s, X61s down to ~330 euro | 12:07 |
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| tybollt | still I fancy 16:9 | 12:09 |
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| solrize | get the x61s instead of that | 12:10 |
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| tybollt | timeless_mbp: what's that trick of yours for when the phone (desktop) get's "stuck" in vertical mode? | 12:13 |
| tybollt | I remember you had one :) | 12:13 |
| MohammadAG | killall hildon-desktop? | 12:14 |
| arachnist | i have an x300 | 12:14 |
| tybollt | that does it? | 12:14 |
| MohammadAG | should do it | 12:14 |
| tybollt | MohammadAG: in this case I was looking for sommat more elaborate (like, open browser, turn device, open keyboard close browser ... etc) but simplicity FTW :) | 12:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | i don't think it was me | 12:15 |
| thresh | tybollt: press top button, then lock screen and keys | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | but yeah, open browser or phone would probably be my trick | 12:15 |
| thresh | then, press top button again and move slider to unlock the phone | 12:15 |
| thresh | worksforme | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | phone is probably easier in pr1.1.1- | 12:15 |
| tybollt | thresh: that did it, thank you | 12:16 |
| thresh | yeah I discovered that one day ago :D | 12:16 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 12:16 |
| MohammadAG | i find ctrl shift x + that command faster :p | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, screenlock sometimes works | 12:16 |
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| tybollt | MohammadAG: as it was - I couldn't get at the shell BECAUSE I was in vert mode ;) | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | (not always) | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: ctrl-shift-x should work anyway | 12:17 |
| tybollt | ah | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | although i've had states where it wouldn't | 12:17 |
| * tybollt was not aware | 12:17 | |
| timeless_mbp | i think it requires hildon desktop or something | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | which i've either hung or killed or .. | 12:17 |
| tybollt | mmmh | 12:17 |
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| cityLights | ~seen hrw | 12:49 |
| infobot | hrw is currently on #maemo (2d 16h 22m 22s) #oe (2d 16h 22m 22s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 2h 11m 56s, last said: 'n8 khem '. | 12:49 |
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| cityLights | hrw: hi | 12:50 |
| hrw | ho cityLights | 12:50 |
| cityLights | I have been reading mickey's old blog post about the state of open embedded | 12:50 |
| cityLights | can you please point me to a paper expliaing the difference between what used to be the development tools to the sharp and to the N900 today? | 12:51 |
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| cityLights | I mean: what do you use today to build compared to then. | 12:53 |
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| cityLights | what replaced openembedded? does maemo use a different build mechanism? | 12:54 |
| alterego | cityLights: We've never used Open Embedded | 12:54 |
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| alterego | Yes, we use scratchbox | 12:54 |
| alterego | (currently) | 12:54 |
| cityLights | right, so what is the difference between open embedded and scratchbox? | 12:54 |
| alterego | Erm, quite a lot I'd imagine, though I've never used OE | 12:55 |
| cityLights | hrw must know then | 12:55 |
| alterego | cityLights: what are you actually trying to develop? | 12:55 |
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| alterego | An application? Will it be Qt based? | 12:55 |
| dneary | morning | 12:56 |
| dneary | (well, only just) | 12:56 |
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| alterego | moaning dneary | 12:57 |
| hrw | hi dneary | 12:57 |
| dneary | alterego, As always | 12:57 |
| cityLights | alterego: Can I run maemo on the sharp pda? | 12:57 |
| hrw | cityLights: OE can be used for building maemo4/5 compatible packages. | 12:57 |
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| cityLights | hrw: how is scratchbox diffrent? | 12:57 |
| hrw | cityLights: but they will not be fully compatible due to differences in libs and tools | 12:57 |
| alterego | cityLights: not really. | 12:58 |
| hrw | cityLights: thats totally other tool which works in other way | 12:58 |
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| cityLights | as the mer project was close due to meego coming release, will I be able to run meego on the sharp? | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | well, meego has armv5, so maybe | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | but there's some leg work to e odne | 12:59 |
| cityLights | hrw: please explain what was the change between the openembedded and anstrong and today | 12:59 |
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| cityLights | how did it all evolved? | 13:00 |
| hrw | cityLights: man... too much to tell | 13:00 |
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| hrw | cityLights: angstrom is distribution built with OE | 13:00 |
| cityLights | I mean, I am smart enough not to fall to the ads that promise "this NEW product is so much better then the old version" | 13:01 |
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| hrw | cityLights: and angstrom replaced openzaurus, opensimpad and few other distros. also supported devices which were handled by familiar | 13:01 |
| hrw | etc | 13:01 |
| cityLights | I mean hrw and mickey and a few other ppl - where even smart a few years back | 13:01 |
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| cityLights | hrw: right, I remeber this | 13:02 |
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| cityLights | but happens between then and now? | 13:04 |
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| cityLights | basiclly the N800 and the simpad had an arm cpu - right | 13:04 |
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| cityLights | so aint it just a matter of hardware? | 13:04 |
| cityLights | yes, better hardware, but using the samw linux kernel - right? | 13:05 |
| viliny__ | are you having a conversation with someone? | 13:05 |
| cityLights | I am trying to get hrw to respond | 13:05 |
| viliny__ | oh, i see. | 13:06 |
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| hrw | and I am a bit busy so respond in bursts | 13:09 |
| cityLights | sorry hrw. can I ask later? | 13:09 |
| hrw | cityLights: angstrom supports avr32, arm, powerpc, sh, x86, x86-64 and probably even mips | 13:09 |
| solrize | oh man, sharp, i have an sl-5500d that i haven't used in ages | 13:09 |
| cityLights | ok | 13:09 |
| hrw | cityLights: between cpu in simpad and the one in n800 lot of things got changed | 13:09 |
| solrize | it has a cf slot so in principle i could put in a 128gb cf card... thing has more storage capacity than any of the nokia mids even after all these years | 13:10 |
| hrw | but few months ago (with gcc 4.4.x) we got strongarm cpu to go for eabi | 13:10 |
| hrw | solrize: keep it in drawer still - this is good use for it | 13:10 |
| hrw | solrize: buy new toys instead of that 128GB card | 13:10 |
| cityLights | so, can I run hildon on a simpad? | 13:11 |
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| solrize | lol yeah | 13:11 |
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| hrw | cityLights: if you build then yes | 13:11 |
| solrize | i'm addicted to flash | 13:11 |
| hrw | cityLights: but do not expect that maemo binaries will work | 13:11 |
| cityLights | is hildon open source? | 13:11 |
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| hrw | cityLights: you can get maemo4 desktop on any device | 13:11 |
| solrize | i was just thinking of buying a used n800 b/c it has two sdhc slots | 13:11 |
| solrize | and i have a 32gb card | 13:11 |
| hrw | solrize: n810 has nice keyboard | 13:12 |
| solrize | n810 only has a microsdhc slot | 13:12 |
| cityLights | hrw: did anyone managed to run maemo4 on any of the old devices? | 13:12 |
| solrize | like n900 | 13:12 |
| hrw | solrize: no, mini-sd(hc) | 13:12 |
| tybollt | N800 can take SDHC? | 13:12 |
| hrw | solrize: I would love to have microsd in n810... | 13:12 |
| hrw | tybollt: yes | 13:12 |
| tybollt | wow | 13:13 |
| hrw | cityLights: yes | 13:13 |
| alterego | solrize: you mean a mini ;P | 13:13 |
| solrize | hrw i am pretty sure the n810 has microsdhc... you're thinking of the 770 that has that awful mini | 13:13 |
| tybollt | then all you need is a GSM/UMTS radio in it to be usable ;) | 13:13 |
| alterego | hrw: get an adapter :P | 13:13 |
| hrw | solrize: 770 had rs-mmc | 13:13 |
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| solrize | ok | 13:13 |
| cityLights | hrw: so , using scratchbox I can build maemo4 for a simpad? | 13:13 |
| hrw | solrize: 770 = rs-mmc, n800 = sd, n810 = minisd, n900 = microsd | 13:13 |
| alterego | hrw: that's progress! :D | 13:13 |
| hrw | cityLights: I did not said that. | 13:13 |
| hrw | alterego: n910 will get picosd | 13:13 |
| alterego | I still facepalm at Nokia's choice to use RS-MMC in the 770, eh?! | 13:14 |
| alterego | Oooo, sweet! | 13:14 |
| hrw | especially made for nokia | 13:14 |
| solrize | well 810 can use micro w/adapter | 13:14 |
| alterego | hrw: when do we get Blueray? :D | 13:14 |
| hrw | solrize: so does n800 | 13:14 |
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| solrize | n800 has two FULL SIZE sdhc slots so you can put in 64gb | 13:14 |
| hrw | alterego: I heard that omap24 based n142400 will get pinkray even | 13:14 |
| hrw | solrize: oh ah! | 13:15 |
| solrize | i guess there is 32gb microsdhc now but it is dog slow and costs a lot | 13:15 |
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| alterego | schweet | 13:15 |
| hrw | solrize: I really wonder what for people need such amount of space | 13:15 |
| alterego | Music! :D | 13:15 |
| pupnik | if you have knots2 installed you can watch teh blueray on n8x0, n900 | 13:15 |
| alterego | Just buy more cards is what I say .. | 13:15 |
| solrize | swapping cards around is a hassle and microsdhc cards are ridiculously easy to lose | 13:15 |
| cityLights | hrw: the storage issue is another story - I also want to discuss | 13:15 |
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| cityLights | hrw: so what modern OS can I run on a simpad ? only anstrong? | 13:16 |
| hrw | alterego: if you reallly need 64GB just for music then you should consider better media player ;D | 13:16 |
| hrw | cityLights: run angstrom on it - its best solution today for it | 13:16 |
| alterego | hrw: like iPod? :D | 13:17 |
| * alterego shudders,m | 13:17 | |
| hrw | cityLights: other nice solution is to donate simpad for someone who still tries to develop something for it | 13:17 |
| * alterego wonders what the playtime for the N900 is whilst in flight mode. | 13:17 | |
| hrw | alterego: never used ipod | 13:17 |
| alterego | The N900 isn't a particularly good music player tbh. | 13:17 |
| cityLights | hrw: I remember you donated some of your pda | 13:18 |
| alterego | Battery life aside, | 13:18 |
| hrw | alterego: it is awful player | 13:18 |
| cityLights | your sharp if I remember right | 13:18 |
| hrw | alterego: and music got scratched if system is busy with something | 13:18 |
| hrw | cityLights: sl5500 | 13:18 |
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| cityLights | yet If anyone knows of a place I can read about the diffrence between open embedded and scratchbox - I will be glad to hear | 13:19 |
| alterego | I'd like to see MeeGo on my T|T2, it's got an Intel in it.. (chuckles) | 13:19 |
| hrw | alterego: and 320x320 screen... | 13:19 |
| alterego | It's portrait. | 13:19 |
| cityLights | I mean all then tools finnaly use gcc - right? | 13:20 |
| alterego | 320x320 when the slide is up. | 13:20 |
| hrw | cityLights: so does symbian | 13:20 |
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| hrw | alterego: t1/t2 have graffiti area always as grafitti area | 13:20 |
| hrw | alterego: t3 got it collapsable | 13:20 |
| cityLights | hrw: what would it take to run maemo4 on a simpad? | 13:21 |
| alterego | Maybe I've got a t3 then ... | 13:21 |
| cityLights | can't openembedded be used to build maemo4 ? why? | 13:21 |
| alterego | Yeah, it's a T3 :D | 13:21 |
| hrw | cityLights: maemo is closed mostly etc | 13:22 |
| cityLights | o | 13:22 |
| hrw | cityLights: pay me €€€€€ and I will work for month to get you maemo4 as much as possible in OE | 13:22 |
| cityLights | last question: can android run on a simpad? | 13:22 |
| cityLights | is android open sources? | 13:23 |
| pupnik | android is evil, so please shush | 13:23 |
| hrw | no it cannot be run on simpad | 13:23 |
| cityLights | thnaks | 13:23 |
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| hrw | cityLights: throw simpad from 11th floor and watch how it flies | 13:24 |
| cityLights | so all in all the diffrence between then and now, is that we now got a closed source OS | 13:24 |
| cityLights | hrw, I want to use it as GPS for my dad | 13:24 |
| hrw | cityLights: maemo never was open | 13:24 |
| * hrw -> off of that talk | 13:25 | |
| cityLights | right, thanks | 13:25 |
| hrw | cityLights: I do not see a use for simpad or other devices from that era | 13:26 |
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| cityLights | I disagree | 13:26 |
| cityLights | I think it has a bigger screen | 13:26 |
| cityLights | which is good for older ppl | 13:26 |
| hrw | and is terrible slow compared to other devices | 13:26 |
| cityLights | also some applications dont need much cpu power | 13:27 |
| cityLights | ok I am going to eat now | 13:28 |
| hrw | bon appetit | 13:28 |
| cityLights | I think I managed to get a good answer | 13:28 |
| cityLights | back then all was open and we had diffrent devices to run one open OS. | 13:29 |
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| cityLights | these days we got several faster propriety devices | 13:29 |
| hrw | today angstrom supports lot of devices with open OS | 13:29 |
| hrw | and some which can use open OS but in not quite usable way (770, n8x0) | 13:30 |
| cityLights | which device that came out the last theree years can run anstrong? | 13:30 |
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| solrize | anyone got any good post-n900 rumors? | 13:30 |
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| hrw | all depends on definition of device | 13:30 |
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| cityLights | can N800 run anstrong? | 13:31 |
| hrw | solrize: it will use 1366x768px screen and run intel moorestown | 13:31 |
| hrw | yes, it can | 13:31 |
| cityLights | I know iphone/google phones can't | 13:31 |
| solrize | lol | 13:31 |
| cityLights | hrw: can the N900 run anstrong? | 13:31 |
| hrw | cityLights: htc-dream can and many other htc phones | 13:31 |
| cityLights | wow | 13:31 |
| hrw | cityLights: what for? | 13:31 |
| cityLights | hrw: did anyone posted a htc current phone running anstrong? | 13:32 |
| hrw | solrize: and 'I want to be a harmattan developer' program will require signind 3 nda and paying 1500€ just to get device which can be used only with 5kg charger connected all-the-time to device | 13:33 |
| hrw | solrize: to prevent devs from using it for non-development | 13:33 |
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| solrize | hee | 13:34 |
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| cityLights | last: this was the link that got me all worked up | 13:34 |
| cityLights | http://www.google.co.il/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=8&ved=0CD4QFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fmaemo-community%40maemo.org%2Fmsg01849.html&ei=phvxS_rTM52JONPrvNcH&usg=AFQjCNFAbJj10wn7vcm0Gx0TFLZ6WCvQQQ&sig2=eti6EguP-De0Nvgaa3Z1MA | 13:34 |
| hrw | solrize: cause today many people which got their n900 as development device use it not for development | 13:35 |
| hrw | solrize: and do not write apps etc | 13:35 |
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| PhonicUK | Hey all | 13:36 |
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| solrize | at least with that 5kg charger no one will leave it in a bar like the iphone ;) | 13:37 |
| PhonicUK | anyone else find their N900 gets a little groggy after the uptime passes around 5 days? | 13:37 |
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| pupnik | many, PhonicUK | 13:37 |
| X-Fade | PhonicUK: Does closing all your browsers help? | 13:38 |
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| PhonicUK | ive got no apps running :P | 13:38 |
| Termana | cityLights, the Nexus One can run Debian natively, stuff Angstrom! :P | 13:38 |
| PhonicUK | my uptime is 7d 1h 29m | 13:38 |
| Termana | cityLights> hrw: did anyone posted a htc current phone running anstrong? <--- replying to this btw | 13:38 |
| PhonicUK | hmm it seems okay now | 13:39 |
| PhonicUK | i wonder what the uptime record for an N900 is | 13:39 |
| zomg | PhonicUK: mine was prob two+ weeks until I had to restart as the browser got stuck | 13:39 |
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| zomg | no idea what was up with it but it just refused to load any pages | 13:39 |
| PhonicUK | weird | 13:39 |
| PhonicUK | did you Ctrl+Backspace to try and close it? | 13:40 |
| hrw | Termana: if device can run debian then it can run also angstrom and bunch of other distros | 13:40 |
| hrw | Termana: and vice-versa | 13:40 |
| PhonicUK | i wanna run android on my N900 | 13:40 |
| zomg | PhonicUK: yeah it worked fine but no page would ever open :) It'd just display the loading indicator forever | 13:40 |
| PhonicUK | that would be fun | 13:40 |
| PhonicUK | weird | 13:40 |
| SpeedEvil | had that too | 13:40 |
| PhonicUK | i tried Bos Wars last night, nearly killed my device while loading | 13:40 |
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| dneary | andre__, Hi there! | 13:41 |
| Termana | PhonicUK, NITdroid is in the process of getting Android for the n900 to work | 13:41 |
| dneary | andre__, Any chance you might be able to create the Documentation product for me today, please? | 13:41 |
| PhonicUK | i saw someone had done it already, just not released it | 13:41 |
| PhonicUK | I need to get an 8GB MicroSD | 13:41 |
| dneary | I'm working on relaunching the wiki gardeners and I'd like to use Bugzilla to track our TODO list | 13:41 |
| Termana | PhonicUK, well, that depends on your definition of done it | 13:41 |
| Termana | Done it as in it runs - sure | 13:41 |
| Termana | Done it as in everything works - not yet | 13:42 |
| PhonicUK | i just wanna play around with that :P | 13:42 |
| PhonicUK | last I saw the touchscreen and wifi worked | 13:42 |
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| Termana | PhonicUK, I think DJ_Steve released his n900 rootfs and kernel in the thread - I might be wrong though | 13:42 |
| PhonicUK | ooh | 13:42 |
| PhonicUK | maybe ill go get that if he has | 13:42 |
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| andre__ | dneary, I'm on it right now (planning). now that I've finally found the last proposal :) | 13:43 |
| dneary | great | 13:43 |
| dneary | thanks | 13:43 |
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| Termana | PhonicUK, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=661119&postcount=296 | 13:44 |
| PhonicUK | aah it stops maemo booting xD | 13:45 |
| PhonicUK | no dual boot, i'll wait for now then ^_^ | 13:45 |
| PhonicUK | ty anyways though | 13:45 |
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| PhonicUK | i wanna make a little app | 13:50 |
| PhonicUK | that switches task when you press CTRL+SHIFT+Left/Right arrow | 13:50 |
| ptl | Make a little app that randomly complains about PR1.2 | 13:50 |
| ptl | hmm | 13:50 |
| PhonicUK | ptl, xchat? | 13:50 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:50 |
| ptl | that would be nice | 13:50 |
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| PhonicUK | you like the idea of that? | 13:50 |
| ptl | yes, it seems very useful. | 13:50 |
| PhonicUK | awesome | 13:51 |
| PhonicUK | ill get a dev environment set up this evening :) | 13:51 |
| ptl | I'll have to be a daemon of some kind. Do you plan to make an interface for starting/shutting it down or it will be always on since the moment you install it? | 13:52 |
| ptl | s/I'll/It'll/ | 13:52 |
| infobot | ptl meant: It'll have to be a daemon of some kind. Do you plan to make an interface for starting/shutting it down or it will be always on since the moment you install it? | 13:52 |
| hrw | btw - any new rumours about pr1.2? | 13:52 |
| ptl | I guess not | 13:53 |
| PhonicUK | I'd probably make always on initially, maybe a status applet to turn it on/off | 13:53 |
| ptl | PhonicUK: sounds great. | 13:53 |
| PhonicUK | i was thinking while using it last night how nice it would be to have a kind of alt+tab | 13:53 |
| PhonicUK | instead of having to navigate through the menu | 13:54 |
| PhonicUK | or doing ctrl+backspace+click | 13:54 |
| alterego | PhonicUK: something wrong with the dashboard? | 13:54 |
| PhonicUK | not really, its just a little inconvenient | 13:54 |
| PhonicUK | esp for things like switching between browser windows | 13:55 |
| PhonicUK | keyboard shortcut for previous/next window would be nice | 13:55 |
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| PhonicUK | the net splat | 13:55 |
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| alterego | PhonicUK: how is it inconvenient? | 13:56 |
| pigeon | PhonicUK: i'll like that too | 13:56 |
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| PhonicUK | In the case of multiple pages, I have to: | 13:57 |
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| PhonicUK | Unmaximize the page, Select the task switcher, pick the page i want to view, put it back into full-screen mode | 13:57 |
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| PhonicUK | instead, i could do an alt+tab behave-alike and just switch quickly between windows | 13:57 |
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| alterego | Well, I use the camera button half-press to dashboard app | 13:58 |
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| PhonicUK | also good for anything where you have a full screen app that mostly uses the keyboard | 13:58 |
| alterego | So you just half-press the camera button and it takes you to the dashboard | 13:58 |
| PhonicUK | a keyboard shortcut is still more convenient IMO | 13:58 |
| alterego | I find that suitable enough. | 13:58 |
| alterego | Well, I don't think so, | 13:58 |
| PhonicUK | fine, don't use my app when I make it then :P | 13:59 |
| alterego | PRessing CTRL+SHIFT+Arrow is going to be a big pain in the ass. | 13:59 |
| PhonicUK | those that do think so can | 13:59 |
| PhonicUK | no its not | 13:59 |
| alterego | Where as, pressing the camera button is piss easy. | 13:59 |
| PhonicUK | but doesn't do the same thing :P | 13:59 |
| alterego | So? | 13:59 |
| alterego | I bet it's quicker. | 13:59 |
| PhonicUK | so it wouldn't do what i want it to do...? | 13:59 |
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| alterego | Well, your real goal is switching applications, so I argue it would do exactly what you want it to do, and faster :P | 14:00 |
| alterego | Maybe it doesn't do it in the same way as your desktop, but then, your desktop probably doesn't have a touch screen :P | 14:00 |
| PhonicUK | how can multiple screen touches be faster than a single keyboard shortcut? | 14:00 |
| PhonicUK | ctrl+shift can be pressed at the same time with your left thumb | 14:00 |
| alterego | It's a single screen touch. | 14:00 |
| PhonicUK | and a button press | 14:00 |
| alterego | press camera, press application thumb | 14:01 |
| PhonicUK | it seems like a half-way point to what i want to do | 14:01 |
| chem|st | PhonicUK: ctrl+shift is one of the dumbest key-mods on n900! | 14:01 |
| PhonicUK | lol | 14:01 |
| PhonicUK | why? | 14:01 |
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| chem|st | PhonicUK: you press it with one thumb? must be a special thumb though | 14:02 |
| * PhonicUK waves at pigeon and ptl, back me up here xD | 14:02 | |
| PhonicUK | Ctrl and shift are right next to eachother :\ | 14:02 |
| alterego | They're separated by the meta key. | 14:02 |
| chem|st | nope there is Fn in between | 14:02 |
| PhonicUK | aah wait | 14:02 |
| PhonicUK | i meant ctrl+fn | 14:02 |
| PhonicUK | not ctrl+shift | 14:02 |
| alterego | Okay, | 14:02 |
| alterego | That's better, | 14:02 |
| tybollt | timeless: seen the tab system in fennecfox 1.1? ME WANTEY! when do we get this backported to Microb? | 14:02 |
| alterego | I still think the half-press-camera-button and then press thumb is better. | 14:03 |
| ptl | I think using the camera button or maybe the volume button would be better than ctrl+shift+arrow | 14:03 |
| ptl | you'd have to use both hands for ctrl+shift+arrow, it's awkward | 14:03 |
| chem|st | PhonicUK: anything with fn is ok but those standard setup combos with ctrl+shift are nuts | 14:03 |
| PhonicUK | yah thats my bad, I meant Ctrl+Fn+Arrow | 14:03 |
| tybollt | alterego: to do .. .what? | 14:03 |
| alterego | tybollt: task switching :) | 14:04 |
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| Wolfie | PhonicUK: fn+arrow doesn't work for finnish layouts. up and down are fn-left and fn-right | 14:04 |
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| Wolfie | which is ass, but can't help it | 14:04 |
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| PhonicUK | No reason why I couldn't make such a thing customizable | 14:04 |
| chem|st | not realy?! ctrl+bksp is without 2nd modifier... | 14:04 |
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| PhonicUK | maybe I could make a generalized hotkey daemon with support for task switching | 14:04 |
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| chem|st | PhonicUK: but you need to remember to make it as a global version so no std mods for arrows apart of shift+[left,right] | 14:06 |
| pupnik | maybe n910 could have ... more keys :) | 14:06 |
| PhonicUK | lol | 14:06 |
| PhonicUK | if they release an N910 within 2010 I'll be so pissed | 14:07 |
| pupnik | how bout 4 rows with 15 columns! | 14:07 |
| pigeon | is it possible to customize the main launcher menu? | 14:07 |
| chem|st | PhonicUK: there will be a N9xx in 2010 but it wont have a resistive screen I guess | 14:07 |
| PhonicUK | I wonder how much it will cost / how much it would cost to trade up | 14:07 |
| chem|st | pigeon: dont know about the mymenu thingi | 14:08 |
| Appiah | what | 14:08 |
| Appiah | they cant do that! no n9xx release for 2-3 years please | 14:08 |
| Appiah | :D | 14:08 |
| jaska | is it just me or does the n900 touchscreen require more force than n810? | 14:08 |
| PhonicUK | I don't want there to be an N9xx untill my contract runs out in 2012 | 14:08 |
| chem|st | PhonicUK: thats not up to you! | 14:09 |
| jaska | contract? whats that :D | 14:09 |
| PhonicUK | I could always sabotage the project :P | 14:09 |
| PhonicUK | I dunno if I can contact the Nokia engineers from my Nokia Siemens Networks mailbox though :\ | 14:09 |
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| chem|st | PhonicUK: Appiah the goal is to release the first meego device this fall, isnt it? | 14:09 |
| PhonicUK | they won't make it:P | 14:10 |
| Appiah | chem|st No idea, I haven't followed the meego project | 14:10 |
| PhonicUK | they'll drop it and do something with moorestown | 14:10 |
| * PhonicUK looks at corporate phone book | 14:10 | |
| smoku | if the next device is a next generation device, it should be named Na00 | 14:11 |
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| jaska | and itll burn if you drop it in water? | 14:11 |
| PhonicUK | lol I can call the meeting room in Nokia House, Espoo if i want xD | 14:11 |
| chem|st | I guess it wont be that different from n900/n97 so if the hardware designers are on it it will be out for black friday | 14:11 |
| PhonicUK | what is Black Friday? | 14:12 |
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| PhonicUK | all i know is taht stuff is really cheap for 1 day | 14:12 |
| pupnik | do all these android/htc customers wear skirts or what? don't they know the powah of two-thumb keyboard? | 14:12 |
| tybollt | PhonicUK: Right - there's only the ONE meetingroom in the entire of Espoo. | 14:12 |
| PhonicUK | haw haw :P | 14:12 |
| PhonicUK | thats just the first one i saw in the list of meeting rooms | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt: and it's a sauna | 14:13 |
| chem|st | PhonicUK: thats the main shopping day in US, called "black" because any company returns to black numbers on their registries | 14:13 |
| jaska | where foreigners are tortured into submission? | 14:13 |
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| tybollt | Stskeeps: :) | 14:13 |
| tybollt | hmmmm | 14:14 |
| tybollt | acer delivers more computers in europe than hp... | 14:15 |
| hrw | tybollt: iirc acer got to top3 of computer vendors | 14:15 |
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| pigeon | does anyone use stellarium on the n900? i wonder why i get this semi transparent rectangle on top of big part of the screen... | 14:17 |
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| Ken-Young | pigeon, Have you tried "orrery" ? | 14:23 |
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| * pigeon tries. | 14:24 | |
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| pigeon | cool | 14:26 |
| Ken-Young | pigeon, I've got an improved version that I will upload once pr1.2 is out. | 14:27 |
| Ken-Young | Bigger, prettier fonts, among other things. | 14:28 |
| hrw | Ken-Young: what is orrery? | 14:28 |
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| asj | Ken-Young: so when hell freezes over? ;) | 14:29 |
| Ken-Young | hrw, It's my little "show the night sky" app. | 14:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's like reality, but better! | 14:29 |
| hrw | ah | 14:29 |
| Ken-Young | asj, Yeah, it's looking that way. | 14:29 |
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| rmrfchik | i wonder is there headphones with media player control? | 14:32 |
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| rmrfchik | play/pause/volume on headphones | 14:32 |
| asj | rmrfchik: not afaik | 14:32 |
| rmrfchik | sad | 14:32 |
| tekojo | rmrfchik bluetooth headsets | 14:34 |
| rmrfchik | tekojo: what's with music quality in bluetooth? never tried it | 14:34 |
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| asj | ah yeah, that works well | 14:34 |
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| tekojo | Have tried Nokia BH-214 and it was good | 14:34 |
| tekojo | the limit to my ears is the earbud | 14:35 |
| * X-Fade likes his BH-214 too. | 14:35 | |
| asj | there can be drop outs though, battery life with bt playing can take a bit of a hit | 14:35 |
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| rmrfchik | tekojo: and there is play/pause? | 14:35 |
| tekojo | actually I daily use the older BH-500 model (because it is black and maches the n900) | 14:35 |
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| rmrfchik | asj: ah, anyway charge it every day | 14:35 |
| tekojo | play pause, volume, backl and foward | 14:36 |
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| mikki-kun | hm, can anybody tell me how i can tweak the output of ussd-widget? would love to have it shorter and smaller than "dear very valued customer whom we truly epicly love and still rip off due to out high call rates[...]" | 14:36 |
| asj | rmrfchik: with pr1.1 I'm guessing it's about 4 hours on bt | 14:36 |
| X-Fade | rmrfchik: and stop | 14:36 |
| rmrfchik | asj: hmm.. no so good | 14:37 |
| X-Fade | asj: I can easily do 8 hours of bt audio listening. | 14:37 |
| X-Fade | And my bt headset battery is empty before my N900. | 14:37 |
| asj | rmrfchik: ok, 4-8 hours, | 14:37 |
| Arkenoi | mikki-kun, there is python regexp | 14:37 |
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| rmrfchik | asj: ;) | 14:37 |
| Arkenoi | to filter the output value | 14:37 |
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| tybollt | asl? | 14:38 |
| mikki-kun | Arkenoi: hm... as i have no clue and idea of python, would you be willing to assist a lil? | 14:38 |
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| rmrfchik | hmm, nokia bh-905 | 14:39 |
| rmrfchik | seems like what I need. BT+wire connection | 14:39 |
| rmrfchik | noise reduction, music control | 14:39 |
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| rmrfchik | mmm... sweeeet | 14:39 |
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| Arkenoi | mikki-kun, i am not very familliar with python either, but many people on the channel are, so i think if you post something like "i want to cut off everything except second line from word ... to word ..." someone might help | 14:41 |
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| Arkenoi | at least it worked for me ;-) | 14:41 |
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| mikki-kun | well,first i gotta figure out how to get even read my thai-characters.... | 14:42 |
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| mikki-kun | ahhhh, ok, found a way to get the USSD-response as well in english... wuhu, that'll help ^^ | 14:51 |
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| pupnik | maemo weekly news gets more important | 14:59 |
| tybollt | wiehso? | 15:00 |
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| pupnik | because browsing maemo gets more useless | 15:01 |
| pupnik | t.m.o rather | 15:01 |
| * pupnik looks at the time | 15:01 | |
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| andemoni | is there any way to alleviate the screen tearing you get in portrait mode? | 15:03 |
| andemoni | this is with n900 | 15:03 |
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| Stskeeps | i guess part of the issue is that well, vsync goes .. vertically | 15:05 |
| andemoni | with fast y-axis motion and steep colors portrait mode is pretty much unusable | 15:05 |
| andemoni | as far as i know n900 doesn't have vsync | 15:05 |
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| chronim | i hope nokia sued the n900 speaker supplier/mfgr | 15:14 |
| ptl | why? | 15:14 |
| ptl | is it that bad? | 15:14 |
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| asj | you want to sue random chinese company in china? | 15:15 |
| andemoni | i hope they kicked the guy's ass who didn't implement vsync in maemo5 | 15:15 |
| chronim | you mean for games or media playback? | 15:16 |
| * Cabletwitch wonders whats wrong with the speakers? | 15:16 | |
| Cabletwitch | Or do you mean the earpiece one? | 15:16 |
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| chronim | no on device speakers are easily damaged | 15:16 |
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| Cabletwitch | Only if you play crap music at high volumes ;O) | 15:16 |
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| chronim | perhaps that was funny but it is not correct | 15:17 |
| Arkenoi | unless you mess with alsamixer to increase volume beyond the limit UI lets you to do i think speakers are quite reliable | 15:18 |
| Cabletwitch | I've had things at full volume on the speakers, and they've been fine. Maybe you're unfortunate to have a damaged pair from factory? | 15:18 |
| tybollt | andemoni: not vsync? | 15:20 |
| tybollt | huh? | 15:20 |
| tybollt | only hsync? :) | 15:20 |
| Cabletwitch | Better than N'syc | 15:21 |
| Cabletwitch | N'sync even. Broke that pun a bit, bah. | 15:21 |
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| tybollt | your pun is no fun | 15:24 |
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| Cabletwitch | My jokes bring all the groans to the yard, and they're like, what a retard. Damn right, that jokes just 'tard. I'd teach you, but I'm... out of things to rhyme. Damnit. | 15:27 |
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| tybollt | you need more (MOAR!) busta rhymes and less 50 cent :) | 15:28 |
| Cabletwitch | Eh, I'm about 50%, morelike. | 15:29 |
| tybollt | MOAR | 15:29 |
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| * Cabletwitch needs to hire ghostbuters. | 15:31 | |
| Cabletwitch | Again with the crappy spelling. | 15:31 |
| * Cabletwitch needs to hire Ghostbusters, this time. | 15:31 | |
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| Cabletwitch | I'm stumped. I honestly cannot find whats causing tracker to spazz out and tell me these bastard files still exist. | 15:32 |
| Cabletwitch | They dont exist in any file-management utility, they dont exist outside of the media library. | 15:32 |
| Cabletwitch | Yet if I try and delete them, or reset the dam tracker, they kjust reappear. Like filesystem zombies, no less. | 15:33 |
| Cabletwitch | Only less moaning (except mine) and eating of brains | 15:33 |
| tybollt | ghostbustah rhymes? | 15:33 |
| tybollt | o_O | 15:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Reminder that the maemo.org "sprint and beyond" meeting will be taking place in #maemo-meeting at 1300 UTC (approximately 25 minutes). | 15:35 |
| Cabletwitch | I guess thats to do with Sprint as a carrier, and as such of no use to anyone outside the US ;O) | 15:36 |
| Cabletwitch | Man, my spelling today is going downhill. Cold fingers... and I need to eat. | 15:37 |
| mikki-kun | hm, can anybody lend me a hand in getting my Ussd-widget's output a lil more customized? i don't understand how it should be done with the python regexp (the part confuses me the most -.-) | 15:38 |
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| ZogG | wtf? µtorrent opens app store | 15:42 |
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| Jaffa | REMINDER: maemo.org future meeting in #maemo-meeting in 14 minutes | 15:46 |
| tybollt | do tell whom are invited :) | 15:46 |
| dneary | tybollt, Everyone is invited | 15:47 |
| lcuk | tybollt, any and all respectable people | 15:47 |
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| dneary | tybollt, There was a mailing list discussion, a Talk thread and warning on IRC | 15:48 |
| tybollt | lcuk: damn, you had to rule ME out, didn't you? ;-) | 15:48 |
| lcuk | ;) | 15:48 |
| mikki-kun | uhm, *confused* is this meeting for open or just for certain people? | 15:49 |
| tybollt | dneary: fair enough - is lurking ok or are attendants expected to be active? | 15:49 |
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| tybollt | (guess I'll find out) | 15:49 |
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| dneary | tybollt, Lurk if you'd like | 15:50 |
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| Khertan | Hi ! | 15:57 |
| lcuk | hi Khertan i see you are on the #maemo-meeting | 15:58 |
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| * MohammadAG lurks | 16:00 | |
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| Cabletwitch | So, whats actually happening in the meeting? | 16:01 |
| mikki-kun | so uhm, before i do something "stupid"... is #maemo-meeting open for everyone who wants to join? | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 16:01 |
| Khertan | right lcuk ... i'm also on maemo-meeting :) | 16:01 |
| javispedro | morning | 16:01 |
| Surfa | well, if it's in your reach, then you can't be stupid to join :) | 16:01 |
| Surfa | closed forum discussions need to be really closed.. also in technical manner | 16:02 |
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| Khertan | lcuk: maybe nothing to talk about ... but hum ... it s a meeting :) | 16:02 |
| * tybollt signs surfa's NDA | 16:02 | |
| Surfa | tybollt, which one this time? :) | 16:02 |
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| MohammadAG | ~ping | 16:03 |
| infobot | ~pong | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | cool, switched to offline mode and i wasn't disconnected | 16:03 |
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| mikki-kun | i think i'll join then in a short while :) gotta first get something thougj | 16:05 |
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| massoud | Hey there,on my N900 I want to stop the daemon putting the wifi up so I can put my wireless card in monitor mode | 16:08 |
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| massoud | I think wifi-switcher package is doing that but dont access to the source | 16:09 |
| MohammadAG | ifdown wlan0, shouldn't that be enough? | 16:09 |
| massoud | MohammadAG: salaam, I am trying :) | 16:10 |
| tybollt | inshallah | 16:10 |
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| MohammadAG | lol tybollt | 16:11 |
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| massoud | kifalek tybollt ? :) | 16:11 |
| tybollt | :) | 16:11 |
| MohammadAG | english, 574 users who understand only that here :) | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG | we don't want to piss off the bot do we | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG | ~botsnack | 16:12 |
| infobot | MohammadAG: aw, gee | 16:12 |
| massoud | MohammadAG: of course, I dont even think about that, just one word sorry | 16:13 |
| MohammadAG | lol no worries :p | 16:13 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG shalom =) | 16:15 |
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| massoud | MohammadAG: do you know which daemon is maintaining the wifi up ? | 16:15 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, poka | 16:15 |
| ZogG | haha =) | 16:15 |
| MohammadAG | massoud, no idea, but again ifdown should bring it down | 16:16 |
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| ZogG | massoud, isn't it net.DEVICE_NAME ? | 16:16 |
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| massoud | ZogG: net.DEVICE_NAME ? | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, oops, it was priviet :P | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG | supposed to be* | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG | bah w/e | 16:17 |
| ZogG | massoud /etc/init.d/net.eth0 for example | 16:18 |
| ZogG | /etc/init.d/net.eth0 restart — would restart Lan connection | 16:18 |
| ZogG | in gentoo anyway =) | 16:19 |
| ZogG | but i think it's most distros | 16:19 |
| * ZogG have to try other distros | 16:19 | |
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| MohammadAG | Like windows | 16:19 |
| massoud | ZogG: there is no such script in the debian for n900 | 16:19 |
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| massoud | but ifdown seems to do the work | 16:20 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG i want plan9 and haiku | 16:20 |
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| MohammadAG | uhuh | 16:20 |
| tybollt | ZogG: indeed - I'm going to install Gentoo on my N900 tonight | 16:20 |
| tybollt | I mean portage on N900 FTW | 16:21 |
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| MohammadAG | tybollt, sounds like you already ported it lol | 16:21 |
| massoud | tybollt: debian works well and gentoo needs to "emerge" each package | 16:21 |
| ZogG | tybollt are you srs? | 16:22 |
| MohammadAG | I want a minimal system with only a shell | 16:22 |
| MohammadAG | like ubuntu-server, without the server packages | 16:22 |
| massoud | so packaged-based distro fits better the embedded devices | 16:22 |
| ZogG | massoud, there is /etc/init.d/networking and wlancond and other stuff - some of them are those you need | 16:22 |
| tybollt | no folks | 16:22 |
| MohammadAG | mainly for backup and de-f'ing up the system | 16:22 |
| tybollt | I'm not serious | 16:22 |
| ZogG | massoud, i think source one is better | 16:22 |
| massoud | ZogG: well for embedded ? | 16:23 |
| ZogG | yeah | 16:23 |
| massoud | how do you make your package on the device ? | 16:23 |
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| ZogG | massoud, first of all gentoo supports rpm and others | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | not so easily | 16:23 |
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| ZogG | and also you can compile | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | what's the smallest OS? | 16:24 |
| MohammadAG | wanted to try DSL on the N900 | 16:24 |
| ZogG | googleos /troll_mode | 16:24 |
| MohammadAG | no idea how to actually install it | 16:24 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, LFS is the smallest actually | 16:24 |
| ZogG | as you have exactly what you want | 16:25 |
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| MohammadAG | including coreutils? | 16:25 |
| MohammadAG | don't want busybox | 16:25 |
| * SpeedEvil remembers X+linux+networking+browser on a 1.44 floppy. | 16:25 | |
| SpeedEvil | Ok, the browser was lynx - and I had to rip out code to do printing - but still. | 16:26 |
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| ptl | btw | 16:26 |
| ptl | is the n900 capable of bluetooth printing easily? | 16:26 |
| ZogG | fml | 16:26 |
| ZogG | ptl the was brainstorm about it | 16:27 |
| ZogG | i don't think so | 16:27 |
| ptl | even if you install cups on easy debian? | 16:27 |
| ZogG | maybe | 16:27 |
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| ZogG | maybe you can manage it - but it's not called easy | 16:27 |
| MohammadAG | i think it already works using easy debian | 16:27 |
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| tybollt | MohammadAG: you using easy-debian lots? | 16:28 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, isthe maemo meeting is closed? | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | no | 16:28 |
| ZogG | they are talking about terrible things =) | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG | tybollt, not a lot | 16:29 |
| tybollt | ZogG: no, /join #maemo-meeting | 16:29 |
| ZogG | i'm there | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, no, lurk all you want | 16:29 |
| ZogG | i'm logging it | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG | they could've set +i | 16:29 |
| ZogG | actually my client autologging everything | 16:29 |
| tybollt | MohammadAG: is OOo and Gimp actually usable (granted the screen realestate)? | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG | they need minutes | 16:29 |
| MohammadAG | tybollt, i used gimp to add an alpha channel to an icon | 16:30 |
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| MohammadAG | took about 3 minutes from start to finish | 16:30 |
| MohammadAG | so yeah, it's usable | 16:30 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG what do you mean minutes? | 16:30 |
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| ZogG | masaki, welcome back | 16:30 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, apparently it means summaries | 16:30 |
| tybollt | MohammadAG: sweet | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG | my client logs to the millisecond | 16:31 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG ьшту ещ ыусщтвы | 16:31 |
| ZogG | ooops | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | uhuh | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 16:32 |
| ZogG | mine to seconds, but you can configurate it | 16:32 |
| tybollt | oi | 16:32 |
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| ZogG | just too many chans are open =( | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | tybollt, he forgot to switch layouts | 16:32 |
| ZogG | tybollt je ne parle fraince | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | i'm sure that's gibberish | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | but in russian | 16:32 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG it is =) | 16:32 |
| ptl | shtu esch yusschtvy | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 16:32 |
| tybollt | ZogG: Non, sacre bleu! | 16:33 |
| ptl | according to translate.google.com | 16:33 |
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| MohammadAG | lol | 16:33 |
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| tybollt | in russian it's "chuju glasnost pizda na z'darovje" | 16:34 |
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| Cabletwitch | Anyone considered trying to get Maemo on the iPad yet? Same CPU, from what I can make out :O) | 16:35 |
| MohammadAG | isn't it an A4? | 16:35 |
| tybollt | ehr? | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | Cabletwitch: ipad isn't exactly hackable to run other os'es afaik | 16:36 |
| Cabletwitch | the A4 is an A8 | 16:36 |
| tybollt | ipad's got a next gen Arm 8 cortex | 16:36 |
| Cabletwitch | Uses the same v7-A architecture, so essentially it should be almost identical. | 16:36 |
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| tybollt | if you could jailbreak and get qemu on there - praps | 16:36 |
| Cabletwitch | Mind you, less functionality on the iPad, so why bother XD | 16:37 |
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| MohammadAG | i wonder how bme would handle charging | 16:38 |
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| MohammadAG | without a usb port | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 16:38 |
| Cabletwitch | That could be interesting, to say the least. | 16:38 |
| tybollt | it's be cool to have inductive charging for N900 yes | 16:38 |
| Cabletwitch | "The One-Shot Maemo iPad" | 16:38 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: it would crash and reboot your device until the dawn of time | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, any idea where i could get any BH-214s | 16:38 |
| Cabletwitch | tybollt: Isnt there a company that does back covers for phones that includes that feature? | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, nice, i've always wanted an iApocalypse | 16:39 |
| javispedro | Cabletwitch: a shitload of devices use the Cortex-A8, that does not mean they use the "same CPU" | 16:39 |
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| Cabletwitch | Javis: Ahh, wishfull thinking then. | 16:39 |
| javispedro | Cabletwitch: see Beagleboard. It has nearly 100% the same configuration. | 16:39 |
| Cabletwitch | Although I do wonder what the differences are, exactly. | 16:39 |
| javispedro | Cabletwitch: basically, _everything_ save for the instruction set. | 16:39 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, tried zap? | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | .co.il? yeah | 16:40 |
| Cabletwitch | Which would be how hard to work around, exactly? | 16:40 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, ebay? | 16:40 |
| MohammadAG | not going that far lol | 16:40 |
| MohammadAG | i wanted a local shop | 16:40 |
| MohammadAG | cba with shipping time | 16:40 |
| MohammadAG | ordered a F-F usb adapter on 2/5, and it's still not here | 16:40 |
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| tybollt | MohammadAG: one that'll allow for OTG? | 16:41 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG what about BH-214 | 16:42 |
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| ZogG | is it that different? | 16:42 |
| Torne | javispedro: er, if they have a Cortex-A8 then that *is* the same CPU, yes.. not the same SoC, no.. :) | 16:43 |
| Cabletwitch | Ahh, the A4 has a slightly different GPU too | 16:43 |
| RST38h | heya javispedro | 16:43 |
| Cabletwitch | The resulting core, codenamed "Hummingbird", was able to run at far higher clock rates than other implementations while remaining fully compatible with the Cortex-A8 design provided by ARM.[10] Other performance improvements include additional L2 cache and a doubling of the RAM bus width. | 16:43 |
| javispedro | Torne: it's not the same CPU. Apple has modified it. Most vendors edit it to suit its need. | 16:43 |
| javispedro | Torne: ARM sells designs | 16:43 |
| Cabletwitch | If its fully compatible... then? | 16:43 |
| Torne | javispedro: i think you are overestimating the degree to which people make modifications ot the macrocell | 16:44 |
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| Torne | All Cortex-A8s out there are compatible.. | 16:44 |
| javispedro | Torne: no -- you're overestimating the degree of modifications between what people usually consider different x86 processors :) | 16:44 |
| RST38h | compatible with what? and on which level? | 16:44 |
| Torne | javispedro: i'm an embedded ARM kernel developer | 16:44 |
| MohammadAG | tybollt, host mode | 16:45 |
| javispedro | and I'm javispedro, thank you. hello RST38h, btw. | 16:45 |
| RST38h | Torne: so you are looking ath the programming interface? and it is the same, right? | 16:45 |
| Torne | javispedro: srsly, the macrocells are all functionally the same, except for actual cache config and other boring stuff | 16:45 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, I'm not the most patient guy in here | 16:45 |
| Torne | RST38h: The CPU itself, yes, it will be identical except for trivial parameterisable stuff like cache size and geometry | 16:45 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, what? | 16:46 |
| Torne | but all the peripherals are going to be different | 16:46 |
| ZogG | google showed me cache from yad2 about BH-214 | 16:46 |
| RST38h | Torne: So, you do not get to deal with thermal dissipation, currents, and other such stuff? | 16:46 |
| RST38h | memory interfaces? | 16:46 |
| RST38h | memory types and timing configuration? | 16:47 |
| Torne | RST38h: memory interfaces are not part of the CPU on ARM | 16:47 |
| RST38h | Torne: No wonder all those A8s look the same to you... | 16:47 |
| Torne | The CPU is a specific macrocell.. | 16:47 |
| Torne | the entire chip is a SoC made of dozens of cells | 16:47 |
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| MohammadAG | ZogG, don't want to wait for the crappy shipping times to israel | 16:48 |
| MohammadAG | bought a desktop charger and it took a month and 3 days | 16:48 |
| Torne | RST38h: fabrication details like heat/current/etc are not relevant to software, so that doesn't make it a different CPU from a porter's POV | 16:48 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG it takes about 1-2 weeks for me from US | 16:48 |
| RST38h | Torne: makes it way different if you are designign a SoC though | 16:49 |
| javispedro | Torne: it also makes it a different chip, even if it's ISA compatible. | 16:49 |
| Torne | RST38h: but that wasn't the subject | 16:49 |
| Torne | javispedro: it's a different *chip*, sure. it's the same CPU. | 16:49 |
| RST38h | mmm, maybe | 16:49 |
| ptl | we just got to post #5555 on the stupidest tmo threafd | 16:49 |
| ptl | *thread | 16:49 |
| RST38h | ptl: You mean, at post #555, it is still the stupidest? | 16:49 |
| RST38h | 5555 I mean | 16:49 |
| RST38h | No worthy contenders? | 16:50 |
| DarkAvenger | A4 is magical | 16:50 |
| tybollt | MohammadAG: wasn't there a software update needed too? :S | 16:50 |
| DarkAvenger | Cortex-A8 is not | 16:50 |
| DarkAvenger | major difference there | 16:50 |
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| Torne | see above: cpu is hte macrocell with MPU/L1 cache/AMBA buses/NEON unit | 16:50 |
| Torne | everything else on the chip is not the CPU | 16:50 |
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| Torne | that's the usual breakdown for ARM | 16:50 |
| ptl | RST38h: the fact that it got to post 5555 proves it's the stupidest :P | 16:50 |
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| jaska | a threadnaught | 16:50 |
| * RST38h also remembers reading that the macrocell in A8 is tweakable for each manufacturer, individually | 16:50 | |
| javispedro | Torne: so VFP is not on the CPU? :) | 16:50 |
| RST38h | and yes, VFP is currently in the CPU | 16:51 |
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| Torne | RST38h: yes, but none of those changes are software-visible apart from gross things like NEON register count | 16:51 |
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| javispedro | also, i'm sure it will be a _similar_ design at whatever level you're working on. It will be a completely different physical CPU. | 16:51 |
| Torne | which are the same on every A8 shipped so far | 16:51 |
| Torne | javispedro: the VFP is uninteresting on A8, it's retarded and broken :) | 16:51 |
| MohammadAG | tybollt, for what? | 16:51 |
| Torne | it's in the cell, yes, i just didn't mention it because it's boring :) | 16:52 |
| javispedro | Torne: there's A8s out there with the non-mini version afaiu | 16:52 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, i want it in less than a week lol | 16:52 |
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| Torne | javispedro: not that I am aware of, and I'm reasonably sure I know them all :) | 16:52 |
| Torne | javispedro: As far as I understand ARM have not even *written* a non-lite version of vfpv3 | 16:52 |
| Torne | i.e. the silicon IP is nonexistant | 16:52 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG you have 2 options, or get it in month or not to get it at all | 16:53 |
| Torne | likewise, the vfpv3 arch spec allows for subarchitectures other than the null subarch, but those other optoins don't exist afaik | 16:53 |
| Torne | they are just theoretical possibilities from the spec. | 16:53 |
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| ZogG | would i be killed to say something on maemo-meeting =) | 16:55 |
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| Torne | javispedro: but anyway. it was a software questoin, i'm a software guy, i define CPU in that context as the useful definition from a software POV: code compatibility. and so far all A8s that exist in products or that I am aware of in development are 100% code compatible with each other | 16:55 |
| ZogG | dneary, you can always see people complaining at talks.maemo.org =) | 16:55 |
| Torne | the rest is just peripherals :) | 16:55 |
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| dneary | ZogG, I didn't say I want to hear people complaining | 16:57 |
| dneary | I said I want to hear people asking for stuff to be done | 16:57 |
| ZogG | that is right | 16:57 |
| ZogG | but there are a lot of ideas in there too | 16:57 |
| javispedro | Torne: they share the same ISA, so of course. | 16:57 |
| ZogG | i'm tired myself of people complaining, cause you can't really filter it for good ideas | 16:58 |
| Torne | javispedro: er, not of course.. | 16:58 |
| Torne | javispedro: ARMv7 has loads of optional bits | 16:58 |
| Torne | it's perfectly possible for different ARMv7-A procs to be incompatible.. | 16:58 |
| Torne | but so far the A8s are all the same wrt. which options they have | 16:58 |
| Torne | some of the A9s are different, though.. | 16:59 |
| javispedro | I don't think we're using the same definition of ISA, but it doesn't matter, as I get the point. | 17:00 |
| Torne | (some of the A9MPs aren't even symmetric :) | 17:00 |
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| jcrawford | so is the store working with N900 or are there just 0 apps for it? | 17:13 |
| jcrawford | is there any current way to tether your laptop to the N900's 3G connection? | 17:13 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: os? | 17:14 |
| tybollt | and uhm yes there is | 17:14 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: get joikuspot for n900 | 17:14 |
| jcrawford | tybollt, what do you mean? The OS on my computer or the N900? | 17:14 |
| jcrawford | oh nice i have that for my E72 was not sure it was out for the N900 :) | 17:15 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: whatever - install joikuspot on N900 and then ad-hoc via wifi your laptop and n900 | 17:15 |
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| flashn | I use more standard apps for my n900 than mobile apps | 17:15 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: Japp, kör på joikuspot - finns en beta för linux/n900 | 17:16 |
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| ZogG | tybollt say what? | 17:17 |
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| ZogG | was it Finnish or Swedish ? | 17:18 |
| jaska | looks like swedish.. "yes, goes by(?) joikuspot - there is a beta for linux/n900" | 17:18 |
| jcrawford | nice thanks | 17:18 |
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| jaska | (my swedish is a "bit" rusty) | 17:18 |
| jcrawford | still waiting for my N900 to arrive but cannot wait for it to get here :) | 17:18 |
| ZogG | tybollt, can you send me some swedish girls, i'm paing for shipping | 17:18 |
| jcrawford | are there a lot of apps out there? | 17:18 |
| jcrawford | i have not looked into the N900 much yet but heard there were a lot of issues surrounding the ovi store | 17:19 |
| MohammadAG | not the iPhone definition of a "lot" | 17:19 |
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| tybollt | jcrawford: =) | 17:20 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: no, basically there's not a lot of apps. | 17:20 |
| jcrawford | :( | 17:20 |
| jcrawford | are you guys happy with your devices or no? | 17:20 |
| SpeedEvil | jcrawford: Absolutely! | 17:20 |
| jcrawford | I have a palm pre and E72 now, the N900 will replace the E72 | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - absolutely may be strong. | 17:21 |
| jcrawford | love the Pre's OS but hate the hardware it's real shitty | 17:21 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: mainly because "apps" is typically webpages that can't be browsed on other devices HOWEVER on your N900 you can view 99% of all webpages just fine right in your device. | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I do wish that they had included more than one stylys | 17:21 |
| jcrawford | ut oh SpeedEvil lost his lol | 17:21 |
| rcg-work | jcrawford: you don't need many applications if you get the right applications ;) | 17:21 |
| muelli | I don't use the stylus at all. It's not very tempting anyway | 17:21 |
| jcrawford | rcg-work, very true | 17:21 |
| jcrawford | can you root the N900 through SSH? | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | you get root | 17:22 |
| jcrawford | that's what i meant :) | 17:22 |
| javispedro | are you really suggesting the n900 as alternative for e72? | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | You can connect over ssh and login as route - yes. | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | root | 17:22 |
| jcrawford | javispedro, nope it's a replacement | 17:22 |
| jcrawford | cool | 17:22 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: One BIG CAVEAT | 17:22 |
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| jcrawford | ... | 17:22 |
| javispedro | jcrawford: REALLY ensure ANY feature you need on the e72 is present on the n900 | 17:23 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: if you use any of ovi.com, ovi suite or MMS you will be unpleasantly surprised by your N900 | 17:23 |
| jcrawford | lol | 17:23 |
| jcrawford | javispedro, i don't use the E72 at all cept for joiku and about 5 mins/month in calls | 17:23 |
| javispedro | no calendar, no nothing, then n900 is fine unless you also have weird contact book demands | 17:24 |
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| jcrawford | tybollt, MMS has issues? So you cannot IM photos etc? | 17:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | MMS is third party. | 17:24 |
| jcrawford | ah | 17:24 |
| * SpeedEvil high-fives frals. | 17:24 | |
| jcrawford | ok scrum time, be back after the meeting :) | 17:24 |
| tybollt | jcrawford: actually MMS is getting there - not thanks to Nokia though. | 17:24 |
| jcrawford | tybollt, lol | 17:24 |
| * tybollt high-fives frals | 17:24 | |
| jcrawford | sshhhhh don't flame Nokia :) | 17:24 |
| jcrawford | bbiab | 17:24 |
| tybollt | we're not flaming nokia | 17:24 |
| tybollt | we're issuing constructive criticism | 17:24 |
| SpeedEvil | It's like host-mode. | 17:25 |
| jcrawford | lol :D | 17:25 |
| * tybollt HACEDESK | 17:25 | |
| SpeedEvil | It's not working - the hardware is capable. | 17:25 |
| tybollt | s/H/F/ | 17:25 |
| jcrawford | ok bbiaf :) | 17:25 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: that is ... irritating :-| | 17:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 17:26 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: Did you see javispedro's awesome demo last night? | 17:26 |
| tybollt | so will all the fuzz as of late spawn interest in Nokla? | 17:26 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: I did not :( url? | 17:26 |
| javispedro | n900 driving a displaylink monitor -- http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/usb/x11vnc2dlusb.jpg | 17:26 |
| SpeedEvil | http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/usb/xvnc2dlusb.jpg | 17:26 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - that | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 17:27 |
| jaska | viva le kludge :D | 17:27 |
| tybollt | hey | 17:27 |
| tybollt | I have one of those! | 17:27 |
| tybollt | the male A-A bit :) | 17:27 |
| javispedro | jaska: and it requires another PC to work! | 17:27 |
| supertramp | what's 'displaylink monitor'? | 17:27 |
| javispedro | tybollt: it's female femae | 17:27 |
| tybollt | javispedro: ehr yeah that's what I meant | 17:27 |
| tybollt | female female | 17:28 |
| Corsac | hot | 17:28 |
| tybollt | meh | 17:28 |
| Khertan | someone have successfully use mad-developer on n900 and usb networking with this stupid OS nammed Windows ? | 17:28 |
| javispedro | supertramp: www.displaylink.com | 17:28 |
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| Arkenoi | it is something like running x11 over ip over usb? ;-) | 17:28 |
| javispedro | no, it's like vnc over raw usb | 17:28 |
| Arkenoi | or s/x11/vnc/ | 17:28 |
| Arkenoi | ah | 17:28 |
| tybollt | javispedro: Looking at this I'm amazed it's working... it ought to be inssuficient powere or is there a HUB somewhere in that chain? | 17:28 |
| SpeedEvil | A displaylink USB adaptor plugs into a normal monitor and acts like a USB display card | 17:28 |
| javispedro | tybollt: monitor is plugged to AC | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - there is 200mA of boost power available. | 17:29 |
| Arkenoi | does it provide major advantage over x11 or vnc over ip? | 17:29 |
| tybollt | ah the monitor has a powere hub builtin | 17:29 |
| tybollt | fair enough | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is enough for many items | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Neglecting the above | 17:29 |
| Arkenoi | ah, so it is hardware thingie? | 17:29 |
| Arkenoi | nice | 17:29 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: btw I noticed that I had lied about unmodified kernel -- my twl3040 is in different state after removing battery | 17:29 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: seemingly vbus pump setting can survive a reboot | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | odd | 17:30 |
| tybollt | javispedro: also how do you make yout telly (I know it's OT :) not expand the picture? | 17:30 |
| javispedro | "yout telly"? | 17:30 |
| tybollt | javispedro: I've done displayout via the TV-cord and it expands the picture something ridiculous :-/ | 17:30 |
| tybollt | your telly (the screen) | 17:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=660799&postcount=5 | 17:31 |
| SpeedEvil | on composite out resolution | 17:31 |
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| javispedro | the stretching done for fitting the 800x480 fb into tv out can be customized, though | 17:32 |
| javispedro | albeit not easily. | 17:32 |
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| tybollt | SpeedEvil: sorry - lost me at "NTSC" ;-D | 17:32 |
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| javispedro | Arkenoi: it's slow so far, as afaiu free libdlo doesn't implement all of the "patented" displaylink compression algorithms | 17:33 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: Briefly - NTSC - somewhere around 420*480 pixels is achievable resolution in b+w, with colour more like 150*480 | 17:34 |
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| tybollt | SpeedEvil: Talk PAL to me mate, I'm in Europe =) | 17:34 |
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| glued | maemo sucks! | 17:36 |
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| javispedro | it's the first time I see that. laugh. | 17:36 |
| tybollt | I'd rather people said "Maemo's got potnetial" rather than being all FANBOI!111 though. | 17:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | tybollt: It's broadly the same | 17:38 |
| tybollt | fair enough | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not quite sure how much the composite out otuput can actually do if you set it to wierd modes. | 17:39 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: since you have the knowhow... why choose something analogue like that when they could've gone ... hdmi or such? | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | In some ways this is irrelevant, as thogh you might be able to do 1024*768@80Hz on a sync-on-green monitor, ... | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | More expensive | 17:39 |
| tybollt | why? | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not sure there is actually a hdmi out on the CPU | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | neglecting that. | 17:40 |
| tybollt | shouldn't converting to analogue mean more HW/cost than when all digital? | 17:40 |
| Terje_ | tybollt, no need to add another connector. | 17:40 |
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| tybollt | uhuh | 17:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | To bring out HDMI needs a comparatively large connector. A large hole in the case, with reliability and cost problems. | 17:40 |
| tybollt | so the phys layer is the costly part? | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 17:40 |
| * tybollt nods | 17:40 | |
| SpeedEvil | The BOM for the composite out is ... | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe a dollar. | 17:40 |
| tybollt | oi | 17:41 |
| ShadowJK | iirc beagleboard has dvi-out through a hdmi connector | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | And I could believe half that. | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | easily | 17:41 |
| tybollt | that sjk! | 17:41 |
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| tybollt | dvi via hdmi++ | 17:41 |
| Terje_ | ShadowJK, I'm sure that if N900 would've been in the size of a BeagleBoard, it would've had a DVI connector. :-) | 17:41 |
| tybollt | but olrite | 17:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | The composite out hardware is basically already in the SoC | 17:42 |
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| tybollt | displaylink then, IIRC it has those really tiny nano connectors on mac's | 17:42 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: that's what I find interesting... | 17:42 |
| Terje_ | tybollt, so add a connector that nobody supports? Not very useful. | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | I think it can do a 1024x768 that some monitors display and some reject | 17:43 |
| Terje_ | Anyway, N900 is old hardware. Did DisplayLink even exist then? | 17:43 |
| RST38h | yes | 17:43 |
| javispedro | DisplayLink is NOT a propietary connector | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Displaylink is USB | 17:43 |
| javispedro | you're talking about DisplayPort | 17:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | and if you'd been paying attention a few minutes ago, you'd have found that javispedro had it working yesterday. | 17:44 |
| RST38h | but, in N900's case, the connector is not the main problem with the video | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 17:44 |
| Terje_ | Oh, displayport. :-) | 17:44 |
| RST38h | The main problem is the lag, IMHO | 17:44 |
| javispedro | which is (DisplayPort) most known as a cheap, royalty-free port that every manufacturer is dying to implement to replace the more expensive ones | 17:44 |
| RST38h | And some unfortunate visual artefacts that show up on digital TVs | 17:44 |
| ShadowJK | lag on video-out? | 17:44 |
| tybollt | Terje_: I've seen mac's w/ this displaylink connector that predates the N900 by what - two years? :) | 17:45 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Have you noticed that the TV picture is somewhat desynced from the LCD one? | 17:45 |
| tybollt | Terje_: sorry, yes, displayport :):) | 17:45 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, no not really | 17:45 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Like the system is constantly copying it from one buffer to another using CPU | 17:45 |
| ShadowJK | but I've only used it with CRTs | 17:45 |
| Terje_ | tybollt, ok. | 17:45 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: especially noticeable in games | 17:45 |
| tybollt | RST38h: lag? cpu/DSP is not fast enough - can't keep up? | 17:45 |
| Terje_ | "First version was approved in May 2006" | 17:46 |
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| tybollt | Terje_: Huh? that's some TTM right there... :-S | 17:46 |
| Terje_ | tybollt, from Wikipedia | 17:46 |
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| Terje_ | tybollt, still an extra connector. | 17:47 |
| tybollt | ok ok | 17:47 |
| javispedro | put in whatever Intel is fabbing right | 17:47 |
| javispedro | now | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: Extra connectors cost money in many ways. | 17:47 |
| javispedro | is it usb 3? usb 3 superspeed? usb 3 superspeed fiber? lightpeak? | 17:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | tybollt: You've got the straightforward cost. They cost money. You've got the reliability cost of adding an extra hole in the case, and the manufacturability issues. Then add the cost of extra returns through users breaking it. And users needing support with it. | 17:48 |
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| javispedro | They didn't even put the irda diode in there even though they have the window, so ... :) | 17:49 |
| Torne | HDMI/DVI/DisplayPort out would have been difficult.. | 17:49 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: I was thinking actually to hell w/ the jap plug and put a dislayport connector right there - do sound out via usb :) | 17:49 |
| Torne | The OMAP only has one analogue video out and one digital video out | 17:49 |
| Torne | the analogue one drives the composite video, the digital one drives the LCD | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | composite, or s-video | 17:50 |
| Torne | Beagle has an external DVI framing chip fed by the OMAP's digital out | 17:50 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if anyone has ever implemented the s-video. | 17:50 | |
| Torne | as does overo | 17:50 |
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| Torne | You can't have the DVI framer *and* the LCD, at least, not at once | 17:50 |
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| Torne | you'd have to have an external switching mechanism for htem ) | 17:50 |
| tybollt | javispedro: ? there is surely an irda diode in there? | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: not a reciever | 17:50 |
| javispedro | yes, the led. | 17:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | tybollt: only transmitter. | 17:51 |
| Torne | tybollt: it's not IRDA, it's an IR transmitter | 17:51 |
| javispedro | but I am asking for a receiver | 17:51 |
| tybollt | ya | 17:51 |
| Torne | it's only usable for lirc :) | 17:51 |
| tybollt | I gather as much | 17:51 |
| tybollt | yes | 17:51 |
| tybollt | I know | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | And it's wackily connected to a random pin. Not the nice hardware CIR poty | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | port | 17:51 |
| javispedro | curse that. | 17:51 |
| tybollt | curse! | 17:51 |
| Torne | but yeah, you nede more than an extra connector to have digital tv out | 17:51 |
| Torne | you need an actual framer chip | 17:51 |
| hrw | notes from #maemo-meeting someone? I had to go | 17:51 |
| Torne | and you nede a spare output from your display controller :) | 17:52 |
| javispedro | hrw: dneary will write minutes; I hope logs will be published to m.o (povbot was there) | 17:52 |
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| Torne | gah, i can't type need today | 17:52 |
| javispedro | I also have x-chat recorded ones | 17:52 |
| hrw | thx | 17:52 |
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| dneary | They're on their way out | 17:52 |
| javispedro | thanks dneary | 17:52 |
| dneary | (5 mins) | 17:53 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 17:53 |
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| javispedro | it's been nice to have a direction meeting, let's see if the next one is another direction one or a results one :) | 17:54 |
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| javispedro | hrw: logs http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2010-05-17.html | 17:59 |
| hrw | thx | 17:59 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Btw, I'm not to sure if we should keep the symbol file for Qt. | 17:59 |
| javispedro | yes, I am aware of the problems. | 18:00 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: It seems to give very messy results. | 18:00 |
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| javispedro | basically Qt doesn't have any ABI at all between 4.x releases | 18:01 |
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| javispedro | *ABI compatibility | 18:01 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: And this just doesn't look pretty ;) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/qt-mobility-examples/1.0.0-beta1-maemo6/ | 18:01 |
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| X-Fade | While it migh be true based on the symbols used. | 18:02 |
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| javispedro | hm.. didn't see that one. | 18:02 |
| javispedro | what's going on there? do they really use _all_ of the libraries? | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | example app, so I guess yes. | 18:03 |
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| javispedro | this is actually a good example actually then? cause it's giving < 4.6 deps for most save for multimedia | 18:04 |
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| tybollt | this just in: Biggest study thus far shows mobiles do not give you brain cancer. | 18:05 |
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| * pupnik dances the retardo dance. "haay de buttons wurk" .... javispedro does FN+Letter generate the right keycodes for SDL now or not? | 18:06 | |
| javispedro | pupnik: that will never happen with the core SDL, as it's not really suited for that | 18:06 |
| javispedro | pupnik: if you're interested in text input you have to use my sdl_him project | 18:07 |
| javispedro | but "right keycodes" -- can't do for all fn+letter combinations | 18:07 |
| pupnik | so i have to detect the numbers my... ahha sdl_him... there's a wiki or t.m.o for it? | 18:07 |
| pupnik | ty | 18:07 |
| smoku | pupnik, Fn is SDLK_MODE - you need to handle chords in app | 18:07 |
| pupnik | ok will do | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: This is a side effect of the new devkit too: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10180 | 18:08 |
| povbot | Bug 10180: Some changes on autobuilder caused config.guess to determine chost wrong | 18:08 |
| smoku | which I find usefull - I want to treat Fn like any other key | 18:08 |
| pupnik | yeah i can see there's no one-size-fits-all here | 18:08 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: so, what's exactly wrong on the qt mobility deps? | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Well, it is including qt4.5.3 and 4.6 etc. | 18:10 |
| javispedro | and apt doesn't handle that well? | 18:10 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: While that might be valid, I don't think it desirable. | 18:11 |
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| smoku | pupnik, but MODE is reported as a modifier, so decoding chords is really easy - http://github.com/smokku/uae4all/blob/master/src/maemo/keyboard.cpp | 18:11 |
| javispedro | i mean, 4.5 should conflict with everything 4.6 | 18:11 |
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| * pupnik hugs smoku | 18:11 | |
| javispedro | thus a single package requiring 4.6 means the only satisfiable set is "4.6" | 18:11 |
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| javispedro | argh, triplet. | 18:13 |
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| javispedro | the worst part is that the correct one is the gnueabi triplet | 18:13 |
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| javispedro | pupnik: I have no docs for sdl_him at the moment, sorry; header is http://git.maemo.org/git/sdlhildon/?p=sdlhildon;a=blob;f=sdlhim/src/SDL_him.h | 18:16 |
| javispedro | works on n8x0, n900, any layout, sticky keys, and you can even use the n800 virtual keyboard with it | 18:16 |
| tybollt | btw was it decided when to release 1.2 on the meeting guys? | 18:16 |
| * tybollt ducks | 18:16 | |
| javispedro | but it's also a bit less SDL1.2 and more SDL1.3.. | 18:17 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: I wonder where marat gets that -gnu dependency from. | 18:20 |
| chem|st | tybollt: yep, decided to keep it back at least a week longer than scheduled | 18:20 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: looking at the package atm | 18:20 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: for some reason, there are two autoconf scripts in the package; one gets the -gnu triplet and the other one gets the -gnueabi one | 18:21 |
| javispedro | prolly different autoconf versions in the same src package :) | 18:21 |
| X-Fade | Can be, there are alot of different file dates in that root. | 18:21 |
| javispedro | can be caused because one is regenerated, the other isn't | 18:22 |
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| pupnik | present for smoku and javispedro and x-fade This guy makes music just like mine! "When not writing music for chamber ensembles, theater, dance, or film, Daniel Corral likes to relax a bit by making little electronic pieces." http://www.archive.org/details/DieLaughing | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: dnl SFLPhone - configure.ac for automake 1.9 and autoconf 2.59 | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | # Generated by GNU Autoconf 2.61 for sflphone 0.9.7~beta. | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | configure.ac vs configure | 18:23 |
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| * javispedro hates autoconf | 18:25 | |
| * lcuk passes javispedro a knife | 18:26 | |
| jaska | autocombustion | 18:26 |
| javispedro | oh god, I can assure you, one wouldn't like to try to build all extras packages in obs =) | 18:27 |
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| X-Fade | Hehe, well that is already going on ;) | 18:27 |
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| javispedro | yes, and all of my packages failed to build =) | 18:28 |
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| * javispedro is ashamed that really _all_ of them failed to build. I should set up a private obs soon.. | 18:29 | |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Want a log? | 18:30 |
| javispedro | yes, for example sdlgles | 18:30 |
| MohammadAG_ | X-Fade, lcuk suggested I ask you about the man-db package | 18:31 |
| javispedro | the other day I could look at the drnoksnes one -- external -devel dependencies | 18:31 |
| javispedro | but sdlgles shouldn't have any non-core repository deps! | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | the man-db package in -devel is an altered version of the one in the sdk repo | 18:31 |
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| javispedro | ah, maybe noka binaries :( | 18:31 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG_: You should not use man on device ;) | 18:31 |
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| MohammadAG_ | the sdk will try to upgrade to the newer package, but that would break it | 18:31 |
| lkthomas | guys | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | X-Fade, it's working a-ok :) | 18:31 |
| lkthomas | does anyone know if I maemo could keep alert me for event in calendar ? | 18:32 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG_: how did you break docpurge? | 18:32 |
| MohammadAG_ | I moved the config path to /opt/man | 18:32 |
| lkthomas | or just beep once and miss ? | 18:32 |
| javispedro | ah. | 18:32 |
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| MohammadAG_ | :) | 18:32 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: opengles-sgx-img-common-dev | 18:32 |
| javispedro | binaries, dang it. | 18:32 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: what about sdlhaa? :) | 18:32 |
| javispedro | is it easy for you to check? wouldn't want to bother -- I really should setup obs and start experiencing this instead of fearing it. | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG_ | X-Fade, so, would it interfere with the SDK? | 18:33 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: It is a web interface, so I can just click around ;) | 18:33 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: http://maemo.pastebin.com/zntMES98 | 18:35 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: gcc param issue? | 18:35 |
| javispedro | should check up on libtool docs | 18:36 |
| javispedro | hum | 18:36 |
| javispedro | where's libtool? | 18:36 |
| javispedro | ok, scratchboxism | 18:36 |
| kamui_ | was there ever an answer about why the latest power kernels caused the loss in sound? | 18:36 |
| javispedro | seemingly sbox defines LIBTOOL env var | 18:36 |
| kamui_ | Im holding my packages back until I find out what happened | 18:37 |
| X-Fade | Ok, so we need to add that in fake-scratchbox ;) | 18:37 |
| javispedro | and I should fix that her.. | 18:37 |
| javispedro | *here | 18:38 |
| javispedro | here comes the weird part sflphone-common just built on my local squeeze sdk | 18:39 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: Did you run autogen.sh? | 18:39 |
| javispedro | well, failed to build, but much latter on the build process (dh_installman: /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: man: command not found) | 18:39 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: nope, just dpkg-buildpackage | 18:39 |
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| javispedro | this runs autoreconf on the root dir for some reason | 18:40 |
| javispedro | can see that on the logs | 18:40 |
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| jack_ | hello | 18:44 |
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| jack_ | i need some help guys | 18:45 |
| rcg-work | jack_: just ask your question and someone in here might help you | 18:45 |
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| jack_ | well on my list of apps for my n810 i have one called "epiphany web browser" and i think its uninstalled because it does not run and is not on the list of installed applications, all I want to do is remove it from the list | 18:47 |
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| jcrawford | back | 18:50 |
| jack_ | anybody got any help? | 18:50 |
| pupnik | jack_: the list of apps? where? | 18:51 |
| johnsq | man apt-get, get root console and try to play with it. | 18:51 |
| jack_ | under the internet section | 18:52 |
| Mberez | hi i'm new | 18:52 |
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| Mberez | so if it type pr1.2 i get kicked . . lol | 18:53 |
| SWFu64 | Ask | 18:54 |
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| jack_ | any way to remove the listing? | 18:55 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: file that determines whetever to say gnu or gnueabi is /usr/share/misc/config.guess ; on my system it comes from autotools-dev fremantle/sdk/free, and is archaic version | 18:57 |
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| jeward | Hi, I'm copying a movie to my home directory on my N900 via scp. Where does it need to be for the media player to find it? | 18:57 |
| twoboxen | jeward: I think anywhere in MyDocs will work fine. | 18:57 |
| jeward | Danke. | 18:58 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: that file alone CAN't say gnueabi at all :( | 18:58 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: the issue seems to be that while the root autoconf package ships its own config.guess file (thus getting consistent -gnu results), the other autoconf in /libs/pjproject one decides instead to use host's /usr/share/misc/config.guess | 19:02 |
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| javispedro | for some reason this file must have been updated in sbdmock? | 19:02 |
| javispedro | line 6 of that file has a timestamp, here it is timestamp='2005-04-22' | 19:02 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: let me check. | 19:03 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: not there in the host. | 19:03 |
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| javispedro | well, it has to source a more recent file from somewhere | 19:04 |
| javispedro | heh | 19:04 |
| javispedro | scratchbox is fun. | 19:04 |
| X-Fade | [sbox-: ~] > cat /usr/share/misc/config.guess | 19:04 |
| X-Fade | cat: /usr/share/misc/config.guess: No such file or directory | 19:04 |
| javispedro | that's _inside_ it? | 19:04 |
| javispedro | isnide the target? | 19:04 |
| javispedro | O.o | 19:04 |
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| X-Fade | Ah, config.guess is supplied by the compiler package. | 19:05 |
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| kpoman | guys I am installing and configuring scratchbox right now, it is asking me for which devkits to select ... which one do I select ? | 19:07 |
| javispedro | it has to be in /usr/share/misc/config.guess -- else it won't symlink it | 19:07 |
| X-Fade | ah.. | 19:08 |
| X-Fade | /scratchbox/devkits/debian-squeeze/share/misc/config.guess | 19:08 |
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| kpoman | I got apt-https, cputransp, debian-etch, debian-lenny, debian-sarge, doctools, maemo3-debian, maemo3-tools, perl | 19:08 |
| Timbo | don't suppose anyone has used their n900 in conjuction with the bluesoleil bluetooth driver | 19:08 |
| Timbo | in order to get audio playback from the n900 on the pc | 19:08 |
| kpoman | Which one do I select to compile new stuff for an n810 diablo ? | 19:08 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: ok, nice one | 19:08 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: timestamp='2009-06-10' | 19:08 |
| Timbo | it works fine, but the sound quality isn't 100% :| | 19:08 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: interesting. so I guess that one overwrites the rootstrap one somehow. | 19:10 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: aha, sb-conf install -d does it | 19:11 |
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| javispedro | possible solutions: tell him to upgrade and use 100% recent autoconf versions, | 19:12 |
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| javispedro | or downgrade autobuilder by for ex reinstalling original fremantle autotools-dev package beforehand | 19:13 |
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| javispedro | will post on bmo | 19:13 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: It has not been a problem before. | 19:13 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: So I suggest we help marat fix his package? | 19:14 |
| javispedro | I too like to move on; the pre gnueabi triplet is so old I am impressed maemo still uses it. | 19:14 |
| javispedro | s/on/forward | 19:14 |
| X-Fade | hehe | 19:15 |
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| kpoman | please guys what do I need to select there ? | 19:20 |
| kpoman | cputransp ? | 19:20 |
| javispedro | arm or x86? | 19:20 |
| kpoman | javispedro: my host ? | 19:21 |
| kpoman | is a gentoo box x86 | 19:21 |
| javispedro | no, your build target | 19:21 |
| X-Fade | kpoman: Your build target | 19:21 |
| kpoman | javispedro: target is n810 | 19:21 |
| kpoman | maemo diablo | 19:21 |
| javispedro | are you building for device or for running on the pc? | 19:21 |
| kpoman | running on the device | 19:21 |
| javispedro | device | 19:21 |
| javispedro | Compiler: cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm | 19:21 |
| javispedro | Devkits: debian-etch deborphan cputransp maemo3-tools perl | 19:21 |
| javispedro | CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2 | 19:21 |
| kpoman | already chosen, now what about devkits | 19:21 |
| javispedro | ignore deborphan devkit | 19:21 |
| kpoman | javispedro: why maemo3 ? | 19:22 |
| kpoman | debian-etch deborphan cputransp maemo3-tools perl | 19:22 |
| javispedro | kpoman: there's no maemo4 devkit if that's what you're asking | 19:22 |
| kpoman | javispedro: and what if I also want stuff for a chrooted "easydebian" thing ? | 19:22 |
| javispedro | kpoman: building stuff for the chroot? a bit harder if you want to do it well | 19:23 |
| javispedro | kpoman: since it's a chroot you could build stuff on device itself | 19:23 |
| kpoman | javispedro: ok, for now Ill stick to maemo | 19:23 |
| javispedro | installing gcc and all that. | 19:23 |
| kpoman | javispedro: I need toi shrink the ext2 fs ? | 19:23 |
| javispedro | kpoman: you can build the shrinker for maemo and run it from maemo | 19:23 |
| kpoman | javispedro: any clue on how to do that and still use distcc or whatever to speed things up ? | 19:23 |
| frals | why users shouldnt be allowed near devs... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=662667#post662667 | 19:24 |
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| javispedro | kpoman: never used them myself, but I'm sure there will be some guides on the www | 19:24 |
| kpoman | javispedro: any way to do that with parted ? | 19:24 |
| kpoman | oh | 19:24 |
| javispedro | dunno | 19:24 |
| kpoman | it is not partitions, it is fs :( | 19:24 |
| javispedro | I always partition nits from pc | 19:24 |
| javispedro | via usb | 19:24 |
| kpoman | ok I will try that way .. but on a running image ? I mean I already did the apt-get upgrade thing etc... | 19:25 |
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| javispedro | too many variable stuff to give meaningful answer :) | 19:26 |
| kpoman | javispedro: is there a simple tutorial on what to chose here ? I mean now I am asked which transparency method (qemu etc...) where is this documented so I dont have to bother you ? | 19:26 |
| javispedro | kpoman: everything you need about that is on my above quote | 19:27 |
| kpoman | javispedro: not all =D now I am asked about File or Download for the root thing | 19:28 |
| kpoman | :) | 19:28 |
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| javispedro | kpoman: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.1/INSTALL.txt | 19:28 |
| kpoman | javispedro: sorry for mi ignorance :( I am noob | 19:28 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: oh ok on 2.2 Installing Maemo 4.1 SDK manually setting up the targets | 19:29 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: Debian policy here seems to be "If those two files are not auto-updated in the package even with autotools-dev installed, copy them manually from "/usr/share/misc/config.*" and report this to the BTS." | 19:30 |
| javispedro | so it's a packaging bug | 19:30 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: ok. | 19:31 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: btw, build of sdlgles now done with nokia-binaries, fails with same env var issue. | 19:32 |
| javispedro | yes, both share the same makefile | 19:32 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: Ok. | 19:32 |
| javispedro | (or nearly the same makefile) :) | 19:32 |
| X-Fade | Ok, time for dinner. BBL. | 19:33 |
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| javispedro | see you | 19:33 |
| kpoman | javispedro: ok downloading the rootstrap now ! | 19:34 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: do you know a bit about usb host on n810 ? how can I disable os from putting into standby or whatever ? | 19:37 |
| kpoman | I am using a powered hub to plug some stuff there ... it just puts into standby | 19:37 |
| javispedro | into shutting the screen off? | 19:37 |
| kpoman | javispedro: no, the hub .. | 19:37 |
| javispedro | dunno about the hub | 19:37 |
| kpoman | javispedro: I mean I do lsusb I see my devices then they disappear and seems like they are set to sleep or something | 19:38 |
| javispedro | check dmesg | 19:38 |
| kpoman | javispedro: I'll try to be more specific ... | 19:38 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: check here: http://pastebin.com/vuC0bTUe | 19:39 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: as you may see it detects hardware .. then it fails | 19:40 |
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| kpoman | auto-suspend or something similar causes the error I think | 19:40 |
| kpoman | javispedro: do you know if this is something sysctl related or some echo to some sys/ thingie ? | 19:40 |
| javispedro | dunno | 19:40 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: do you have any links or whatever to experimenting with this ? libusb etc... | 19:41 |
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| javispedro | nope, I doubt you can fix it with libusb | 19:41 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: I want to program with libusb... seems like the device is not recognized then the kernel decides to suspend it or something .. I want to disable that | 19:43 |
| Khertan | Hi all ! To pyqt developer : i ve installed pyqt 4.7 and qt4 lib 4.6 on my n900 but the autorotate feature still didn t seems to work : i use self.setAttribute(QtCore.Qt.WA_Maemo5AutoOrientationn | 19:43 |
| Khertan | ) | 19:43 |
| Khertan | is it normal ? | 19:43 |
| javispedro | Khertan: yes, you need pr1.2 hildon-desktop | 19:43 |
| Khertan | ok thx | 19:44 |
| Khertan | so next step remove auto capitalization :) | 19:45 |
| javispedro | kpoman: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20070929053553.GA12796%40foursquare.net&forum_name=barry-devel | 19:45 |
| Khertan | and fix FingerScrollable on QTextEdit which didn t work anymore on qt4.6 | 19:45 |
| kpoman | let me see | 19:45 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: I have read that link :) | 19:46 |
| PhonicUK | hey all | 19:46 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: let me see (obviously one cannot recompile the kernel right?) | 19:47 |
| PhonicUK | anyone know how to view alt text in the browser? | 19:47 |
| javispedro | you surely can | 19:47 |
| PhonicUK | xkcd isn't the same without it. | 19:47 |
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| PhonicUK | you can recompile the kernel if you are so inclined. | 19:48 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: what about the closed source drivers ? | 19:50 |
| lcuk | PhonicUK, "I'm looking to virally monetize your eyeballs by selling them for transplants." | 19:50 |
| javispedro | kpoman: they're modules in /lib/modules/.. | 19:50 |
| PhonicUK | they are seperate modules and not part of the kernel | 19:51 |
| lcuk | how can we get infobot or something triggering xkcd | 19:51 |
| kpoman | javispedro: oh I only need to not break the dependencies and just copy them to my new kernel ? | 19:51 |
| lcuk | like it does for bug numbers | 19:51 |
| PhonicUK | lcuk, sounds painful | 19:51 |
| lcuk | bug 1234 | 19:51 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234 close-buttons on home menu are too small | 19:51 |
| lcuk | same for | 19:51 |
| lcuk | xkcd 400 | 19:51 |
| lcuk | ? | 19:51 |
| javispedro | kpoman: search tmo before doing that =) | 19:51 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: ok ... now for the rootstrap .. why dont I have lsusb for example if it is present on my default nit 810 ? | 19:52 |
| javispedro | check which package contains it and install it on the sdk. | 19:52 |
| PhonicUK | lcuk, remember that i cant usually see the topic :p | 19:52 |
| kpoman | javispedro: I thought the sdk was a copy of what I have on my tablet via that rootstrap | 19:53 |
| PhonicUK | im on the bus at the moment | 19:53 |
| kpoman | javispedro: at least for basic tools such as lsusb | 19:53 |
| kpoman | javispedro: can I just do an apt-get update on my chroot ? | 19:55 |
| kpoman | javispedro: sorry for spamming you dude :) you are helping me a lot ! | 19:55 |
| javispedro | why not | 19:55 |
| jack_ | hey I was wondering if anybody could help me setup autoscan network? | 19:55 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: ok so apt-get update then apt-get install libusb should put me to my nit level ? | 19:56 |
| javispedro | try it | 19:56 |
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| jack_ | dont worry ill come bac later | 19:56 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: is there a way to get the chroot equivalent to the device ? I mean I dont want to compile something then copy to the device and I had a different lib version on it :( | 19:57 |
| kpoman | javispedro: I mean how this is managed ? manually ? | 19:57 |
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| javispedro | the SDK is designed so that does not happen | 19:57 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: ok by mean of having same repo for the device and the sdk ? | 19:58 |
| javispedro | nope, but compatible. | 19:58 |
| kpoman | ok | 19:58 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: i didnt find anything about tmo (modules and kernel compilation) ... what did you mean by that ? | 19:59 |
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| javispedro | that building the kernel is not going to be easy so please search talk.maemo.org and the mailing lists; it must be documented somewher | 20:00 |
| kpoman | javispedro: ok I will take a look there for example what about grub or whatever | 20:00 |
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| kpoman | javispedro: you told me about a shrinker app for the ext2 easy debian thing ... I cant find it on the package manager :( | 20:02 |
| javispedro | no, I couldn't tell you of a such an app cause I said I use my computer to do it | 20:02 |
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| javispedro | gotta go, bye | 20:04 |
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| GAN900 | N900--make IRC meetings on the job | 20:04 |
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| MiXu- | could someone tell me what's the kernel version in pr1.1.1? | 20:29 |
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| GAN900 | MiXu-, .28 | 20:29 |
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| MiXu- | 2.6.28-omap1 ? | 20:30 |
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| SmokeyD | Hey everyone, is it possible to use the front cam to make pictures with my N900? | 20:32 |
| Arkenoi | you don't want to ;-) | 20:32 |
| SmokeyD | :) | 20:33 |
| SmokeyD | ok, is it so bad? | 20:33 |
| SmokeyD | The thing is, I want to see myself when I take a picture of myself for a profile on a website somewhere | 20:33 |
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| GAN900 | SmokeyD, just use the rear cam | 20:34 |
| Arkenoi | it really sucks. well, in a bright daylight it sucks a little bit less. | 20:34 |
| GAN900 | and get a helper, a mirror, or eyeball it. | 20:34 |
| SmokeyD | GAN900: with a little trial and error, that works fine indeed | 20:35 |
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| rookie2010 | hi | 20:48 |
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| * achipa loves when the autobuilder fails on him with no error message | 21:23 | |
| lcuk | achipa, worse things happen at sea | 21:24 |
| achipa | indeed | 21:24 |
| lcuk | wheres the cauldron build folder? | 21:24 |
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| achipa | I just got https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/python-qt4-experimental_4.7.3-maemo3/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt and it won't budge | 21:25 |
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| achipa | (in case we're talking about the same thing) | 21:26 |
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| achipa | I just *know* it's something trivial, it's just my eyes preventing me from seeing the problem as a part of a heinous conspiracy to get me to drink coffee this late | 21:27 |
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| javispedro | achipa: wow. | 21:29 |
| lcuk | is this potentially something wrong with the man-db? | 21:30 |
| lcuk | or am i barking way up the wrong alley | 21:30 |
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| Khertan | Hi again ! | 21:31 |
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| achipa | but... that's even before my stuff get extracted ? | 21:31 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG pushed it in | 21:31 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/man-db/2.5.1-3maemo3/ | 21:31 |
| javispedro | happens when your stuff is being extracting | 21:31 |
| javispedro | lcuk: might be related indeed..... hmpf. | 21:31 |
| lcuk | it replaces the one from the sdk and i mentioned it might cause conflicts | 21:31 |
| * javispedro downloads source package and tries at home | 21:31 | |
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| MohammadAG | right, did I get a reply? | 21:31 |
| MohammadAG | from X-Fade? | 21:32 |
| Khertan | I didn't understand well something from the meeting ... did you want to remove maemo.org/download for maemo.org/packages ? | 21:32 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: here be dragons. | 21:32 |
| javispedro | Khertan: make the first use the former | 21:32 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 21:32 |
| javispedro | s/former/latter | 21:32 |
| Khertan | javispedro did you will take care of third parties repositories ? | 21:32 |
| achipa | here's a good one: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/python-qt4_4.7.3-maemo2/armel.root.log.OK.txt | 21:32 |
| GAN900 | I really prefer the idea of monthly blog summaries of activity. | 21:33 |
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| achipa | pretty much the same with except for the man warning | 21:33 |
| GAN900 | I wonder if it's not something the council should try out. | 21:33 |
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| lcuk | achipa, wlel the package for man-db comes up hundreds of times using the version that worked | 21:33 |
| lcuk | and once using the version that failed | 21:33 |
| javispedro | achipa: found the problem | 21:34 |
| MohammadAG | that F-F adapter better arrive soon | 21:34 |
| javispedro | dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in debian/control at line 181: duplicate field Replaces found | 21:34 |
| achipa | DUH | 21:34 |
| achipa | but... wait... | 21:34 |
| wazd | guys, any css gurus in here maybe? | 21:34 |
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| Khertan | javispedro did you will take care of third parties repositories ? or did you want to wipe them from maemo.org/downloads ? | 21:35 |
| javispedro | vim syntax highligthing barfs at the file so I'm at a loss. | 21:35 |
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| achipa | javispedro: but how is it possible that in my scratchbox it works ? | 21:35 |
| javispedro | achipa: older debian tooling is less picky :( | 21:35 |
| achipa | (just tried checkbuilddeps and it said no foul play) | 21:35 |
| achipa | I see :( | 21:35 |
| lcuk | javispedro, why isnt the problem highlighted then? | 21:36 |
| achipa | would not be a problem if the error went to log, tho | 21:36 |
| javispedro | Khertan: at this point dunno | 21:36 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder how trivial it would be to port cups | 21:37 |
| javispedro | achipa: yes, this also rings a bell | 21:37 |
| MohammadAG | apparently it isn't trivial at all | 21:38 |
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| MohammadAG | scratch that, it's p**s easy :P | 21:38 |
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| javispedro | probably sbdmock needs quite a bit more logic when calling checkbuilddeps | 21:39 |
| achipa | javispedro: yes, but... for dumping things to stderr ? | 21:39 |
| MohammadAG | /home/mohammad/cups/cups-1.4.3/cgi-bin/libcupscgi.so: file not recognized: File format not recognized <- grr | 21:39 |
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| javispedro | maybe; didn't read sbdmock source :) | 21:41 |
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| * javispedro 's autobuilder-tests dir is already 2GiB | 21:43 | |
| javispedro | time to clean it up | 21:43 |
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| achipa | whoa busy autobilder times are back again :) | 21:51 |
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| * achipa wonders how many people will not heed the *experimental* moniker on his package and install regardless | 21:53 | |
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| javispedro | achipa: EXPERIMENTAL moniker??? It will draw users to it! | 21:55 |
| * javispedro loves all those stupid discussions about extras-devel not being stable enough | 21:55 | |
| achipa | forbidden fruit syndrome, eh ? | 21:55 |
| javispedro | here in #maemo we should call it the "red pill syndrome" | 21:56 |
| achipa | javispedro: well, it's stable but this one is a borker. As in, it's for people who actually know how to resolve dependency issues with apt | 21:56 |
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| GAN900 | Hehe | 21:56 |
| GAN900 | Call it the boring version | 21:57 |
| GAN900 | That might keep people away | 21:57 |
| * Khertan hate that everythings is done to avoid third party repository | 21:57 | |
| achipa | :) | 21:57 |
| GAN900 | achipa, did you check mwkn yet today? | 21:57 |
| GAN900 | (stable) | 21:57 |
| achipa | eerm... just a fleeting glance... | 21:57 |
| GAN900 | achipa, just wondering if the flash launcher summary was acceptable. | 21:58 |
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| ToJa92 | how do I backup application data? I need to reflash :( | 21:59 |
| achipa | GAN900: yeah, perfect. Though the -experimental is slightly misleading there. I used it only to keep in line with the Qt nomenclature we agreed on (the two packages are identical, the difference is just what Qt they link to) | 22:00 |
| wall[e] | tar up home user? | 22:00 |
| ToJa92 | (and in case that wasn't obivous, I have never reflashed before) | 22:00 |
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| achipa | javispedro: muchas gracias for the pointer, that control nudge did the trick (it still dies, but now at least I see what the issue is :) ) | 22:01 |
| javispedro | achipa: if you want to reproduce this you should install the -squeeze devkit | 22:02 |
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| achipa | ambivalent feelings about that, don't know how much poking/tweaking Niels did to it... | 22:03 |
| javispedro | well, I do... | 22:04 |
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| wall[e] | anyone silc on n900? | 22:06 |
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| achipa | javispedro: in that case, as no good deed goes unpunished, can you tell me if "arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lgconf-2 " is also the result of the squeeze devkit ? | 22:08 |
| mikki-ku1 | can anybody lend me a hand in spawning a new terminal via the xterm-icon when there already is an instance running? | 22:08 |
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| achipa | (as it is another thing that works on my EC2 build machine and not on the autobuilder) | 22:08 |
| javispedro | achipa: well, might, but I've not seen it happen so far. | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-ku1, tap the title bar ans hit new | 22:09 |
| javispedro | lol | 22:09 |
| javispedro | " yadda yadda The 64-bit support is now more or less complete yadda so it's time to think about the next stable release." | 22:10 |
| achipa | javispedro: libqt4-network triggers it, for example | 22:10 |
| javispedro | answer: "What 64-bit support?" | 22:10 |
| mikki-ku1 | MohammadAG: is there also a way in tweaking the icon though? i did it via the titlebar maybe once a month ago and sometimes it's fullscreen... | 22:10 |
| mikki-ku1 | so no titlebar visible and the same amount of "clicks" is needed | 22:10 |
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| MohammadAG | oh, no idea about that | 22:11 |
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| javispedro | achipa: you mean libqt4-network build? | 22:11 |
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| javispedro | achipa: I cannot build heavy qt packages on this poor workstation, do you have a simpler testcase? | 22:11 |
| mikki-kun | ok, still thanks for this idea :) | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: so, how do we go forward with the 3d driver? | 22:11 |
| achipa | javispedro: uhhhm... will try to dig up one... | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, get a faster workstation? :P | 22:12 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: filling it with printks is all I have for a plan =) | 22:12 |
| achipa | javispedro: the one I can repeatably demonstrate is if you link to libqt4-network, you will have a missing gconf-2 lib, which then you have to include manually in build-depends | 22:12 |
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| javispedro | "manually?" | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: i wonder if we can hook into 'request to have transfer done from fb to lcd' and 'completed transfer' | 22:13 |
| achipa | as in from an editor | 22:13 |
| E0x | when you delete some picture of video in the n900 is not easy way to get i back ? | 22:14 |
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| E0x | the n900 dont have any .trash folder or something ? | 22:14 |
| achipa | javispedro: I would expect the -dev package to bring in any other -dev packages required for the given apckage | 22:14 |
| mikki-kun | E0x: afaik you could use some tools which read the vfat sys and recover it from there | 22:14 |
| mikki-kun | or ext2 should also have some tools which allow that... *searching for vfat-based ones* | 22:15 |
| E0x | mikki-kun: yes i know , i was hoping for something more easy | 22:15 |
| E0x | i am lazy right now | 22:15 |
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| E0x | and is not that important | 22:15 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: I quite liked fanoush' approach of using fb1 or fb2 much like xv. of course this is all easier from user space and the reason I was trying to guess what's libomaplcd.so doing... | 22:15 |
| mikki-kun | E0x: ohhh, well, data-recovery isn't easy =p ^^ | 22:15 |
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| E0x | thx | 22:15 |
| achipa | as in, the -lgconf-2 dependency/error appears from the dark since the squeeze update | 22:16 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: btw, does the n8x0 updated kernel use omap dss2 or same as stock kernel? | 22:16 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: stock, i think | 22:17 |
| mikki-kun | hm... maybe that is an old question and i am sure some are fed up, but would you recommend in shortly overclocking the n900 if the cpu-power is needed? | 22:17 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: got time for 30 mins worth of ping-ponging regarding the driver? | 22:23 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: not at the moment, but will probably have in an hour | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 22:24 |
| javispedro | I should test your version in stock diablo btw | 22:24 |
| javispedro | well not stock | 22:24 |
| javispedro | but .21 | 22:24 |
| javispedro | will do after dinner :) | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 22:25 |
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| BCMM | is it possible to play music through the phone speaker? | 22:43 |
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| BCMM | (i mean the one on the left that you hold to your ear) | 22:44 |
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| MohammadAG | BCMM, not officially | 22:47 |
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| MohammadAG | or unofficially (yet) | 22:48 |
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| mece | hello | 22:51 |
| E0x | http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/17/zte-packs-3g-maemo-into-its-v7-mid/ | 22:51 |
| petteri | it is running PR1.2 ;) | 22:52 |
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| tybollt | boo | 22:53 |
| tybollt | no pr1.2 jokes :( | 22:53 |
| RST38h | it is out, no joke | 22:54 |
| RST38h | coming tomorrow morning | 22:54 |
| wall[e] | i dont believe you | 22:54 |
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| E0x | hehe | 22:54 |
| RST38h | don't forget to hang a stocking at your bedside and place your n900 there, for upgrade | 22:54 |
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| mikhas | RST38h, now you're just being cruel ... | 22:55 |
| RST38h | not now, always | 22:55 |
| wall[e] | pr1.2dnf | 22:55 |
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| mikhas | well, sometimes you are cruel but helpful | 22:55 |
| wall[e] | i dont care anymore anyway now i decide i should wait for meego instead | 22:56 |
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| mikhas | but what are you going to wait for once meego pr1.2 is announced? | 22:57 |
| Shapeshifter | "wait for meego" lol... | 22:57 |
| wall[e] | and wont notice updating to 1.2 | 22:57 |
| Shapeshifter | I'll wait for mambooza in 2123 | 22:57 |
| Shapeshifter | it's supposed to play green ray | 22:57 |
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| wall[e] | will do my own os | 22:58 |
| Shapeshifter | oh and it can microwave you're leftovers | 22:58 |
| wall[e] | and wait for that | 22:58 |
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| wall[e] | how do i set volume from cmdline? | 23:00 |
| wall[e] | alsamixer didnt | 23:00 |
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| MohammadAG | alsamixer -c 0 should | 23:01 |
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| wall[e] | been tryig to find my n900 today so decide to ssh into it and use mplayer to play mp3 | 23:01 |
| MohammadAG | ~seen noobmonk3y | 23:01 |
| infobot | noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-181-7-164.range86-181.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6d 1h 23m 6s ago, saying: 'ie it wasnt working, but randomly fixed to get it working ;)'. | 23:01 |
| wall[e] | but the volume was too quiet | 23:02 |
| MohammadAG | alsamixer -c 0, raise the first bar to 100, check the output is through speakers and not headsets | 23:02 |
| wall[e] | half an hour later i found it's much easier just to ring it | 23:03 |
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| wall[e] | mo, thanks a lot | 23:03 |
| wall[e] | sorry ircing from n900 and dont know how to tab | 23:04 |
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| wall[e] | virtual key should be translucent | 23:05 |
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| MohammadAG | wall[e], lol np | 23:05 |
| wall[e] | so i can spell people name under it | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | isn't it shift + right? | 23:05 |
| wall[e] | doesn't work for irc nick | 23:06 |
| wall[e] | xchat here | 23:06 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, maybe shift space? | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | Settings > Advanced > Keyboard shortcuts | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | i changed the default combo | 23:08 |
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| E0x | irssi 4ever | 23:09 |
| wall[e] | MohammadAG, thanks! | 23:09 |
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| wall[e] | want bx | 23:10 |
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| * MohammadAG downloads irssi, to see what it's about | 23:11 | |
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| Stskeeps | the n8x0 3d driver has a sane of unholiness over it | 23:13 |
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| Stskeeps | sense | 23:14 |
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| korhojoa | MohammadAG_: it's about awesome | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | don't see much off a difference :P | 23:15 |
| trumee | anybody tried calling a gtalk (on fring) user. doesnt work :( | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | except that it's all terminal-y | 23:15 |
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| MohammadAG_ | which I like | 23:15 |
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| trumee | dont know whether it is maemo fault or fring fault | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | how do I check queries and the such | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | trumee: I can't call fring users from skype | 23:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | It shows that they're busy | 23:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | one client is enough | 23:16 |
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| trumee | N900 simply shows connecting and drops the call | 23:16 |
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| MohammadAG | I think that's fring' fault | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | fring's* | 23:17 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: fring on N95 and gtalk on N900 is what i tried | 23:17 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: u got me wrong | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | yes, fring rejects calls, I tried calling an E66 | 23:18 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: i tried calling to a fring user using N95 from N900 | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | (though I was using skype) | 23:18 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: gtalk fails but skype worked for me | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | I got that | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | weird | 23:18 |
| MohammadAG | skype doesn't work for me | 23:19 |
| MohammadAG | it drops the call and says busy lol | 23:19 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: is it frings fault you think? | 23:19 |
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| trumee | for gtalk, N900 says connectioning and later drops the call | 23:20 |
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| trumee | not to happy about that. all my friends use fring on symbian! | 23:20 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, yeah, it might be fring's fault | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG | never tried gtalk | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG | Nimbuzz ftw | 23:21 |
| trumee | Nimbuzz works? | 23:21 |
| trumee | going to give Nimbuzz on N95 a go then | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | not sure, but I always used nimbuzz for chat | 23:23 |
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| MohammadAG | I found it better than fring | 23:23 |
| MohammadAG | but it does put some load on RAM | 23:23 |
| mikki-kun | hm... does fring support video-calls on the n900? | 23:23 |
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| MohammadAG | not sure, but PR1.2 will have video call support (internet calls only) | 23:24 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: so via skype finally the frontal cam is used? | 23:25 |
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| ToJa92 | if you don't flash eMMC then /home/user wont be touched right? or is it just /home/user/MyDocs/ ? | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, yes, qole confirmed it | 23:25 |
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| mikki-kun | YAY \o/ | 23:25 |
| mikki-kun | hurray \o/ finally some use for that ^^ | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | ToJa92, flashing the fiasco doesn't touch the whole eMMC | 23:25 |
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| MohammadAG | /home/user, /opt and MyDocs should be preserved | 23:26 |
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| MohammadAG | /opt will be cleared when PR1.2 is released | 23:26 |
| ToJa92 | great | 23:26 |
| mikki-kun | i hope PR1.2 won't be delayed too much... i am used to some instability | 23:26 |
| ToJa92 | I don't want to loose my images ;) | 23:26 |
| mikki-kun | but not instant crashing from which i cannot retrieve anything... | 23:26 |
| ToJa92 | but I get annyoing messages about "calendar" crashing unexpectadly, so time for my first re-flash | 23:27 |
| MohammadAG | first? *shrugs* | 23:27 |
| MohammadAG | I lost count after the 27th one | 23:27 |
| lcuk | ToJa92, no images are not touched unless you flash the emmc, but as matter of course with all digital devices they should be backed up offline somewhere anyway :p | 23:27 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: yeah, some people had only one ^^ like me | 23:27 |
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| Tomaterr | hi guys | 23:28 |
| ToJa92 | [lcuk]: Yeah, I'll do it soon.. I have not taken that many pictures yet though | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | lol mikki-kun :p | 23:28 |
| ToJa92 | no flasher for 64-bit? :( | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, did you get yesterday's problem fixed? | 23:28 |
| ToJa92 | oh well | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | or are you still out? :P | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | ToJa92, which OS? | 23:28 |
| ToJa92 | Win 7 | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | why do I ask | 23:28 |
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| MohammadAG | -ToJa92- VERSION mIRC v6.35 Khaled Mardam-Bey | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | :) | 23:29 |
| lcuk | how do i count images on my machine? | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | not sure about windows, but on Ubuntu I can force the installation | 23:29 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: no developer or anything and i am not playing around too much with apps and especially not the kernel... (though i have testing enabled) | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | where are the images? | 23:29 |
| ToJa92 | yeah, I've got a mirc script with a customized .exe | 23:29 |
| ToJa92 | modified* | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | I enabled -devel from day 1 | 23:29 |
| * MohammadAG waits for a witty comment from lcuk | 23:29 | |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, different places, is there a tracker info tool? | 23:29 |
| ToJa92 | I think I can respond with custom replies if I want though :P | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, not sure about tracker, but you could try ls *.png | wc -l | 23:30 |
| mikki-kun | i had it on as soon as i saw "damn, close to no apps -.- i'll give devel a shot"... that was after 13 hours afair ^^ | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | or .jpg | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | whatever you use | 23:30 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: i would add "-l" to ls... | 23:31 |
| mikki-kun | otherwise on short filenames it'll show them also in columns | 23:31 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, recursive? | 23:31 |
| lcuk | i put pictures into folders to group them | 23:31 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm, that's tricky | 23:32 |
| mikki-kun | ls -lR but that'll give some extralines | 23:32 |
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| MohammadAG | I hate it with ssh gets swapped | 23:32 |
| mikki-kun | so you gotta take the output of one ls -lR and then remove the number of those lines manually | 23:32 |
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| lcuk | ill try with find | 23:32 |
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| MohammadAG | MohammadAG-N900:/home/user/MyDocs/.images# ls -lR *png *jpg | wc -l | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | 161 | 23:33 |
| lcuk | 1144 | 23:33 |
| lcuk | oh sorry | 23:33 |
| lcuk | that was my find one | 23:33 |
| lcuk | "find . -name "*.jpg" | wc -l | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | trying a weirder command | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | ls -lR * | grep *png *jpg | wc -l | 23:34 |
| lcuk | yeah the *png tries to expand | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | it's still counting lol | 23:34 |
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| lcuk | those fail | 23:35 |
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| lcuk | the find one works | 23:35 |
| lcuk | but only includes jpgs | 23:35 |
| lcuk | +388 for .png | 23:35 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, http://maemo.org/profile/view/benson/ :P | 23:35 |
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| lcuk | 1532 photos/images on /home/user | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | MohammadAG-N900:/home/user/MyDocs/.images# ls -lR * | grep *png *jpg | wc -l | 23:36 |
| lcuk | 1790 sketches | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | 0 | 23:36 |
| lcuk | since onedotzero | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | and it took 3 minutes | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:36 |
| lcuk | that grep should fail | 23:36 |
| lcuk | yeah it does | 23:36 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: somehow you can't use two parameters | 23:36 |
| mikki-kun | for grep | 23:36 |
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| lcuk | find /home/user -name "*.jpg" | wc -l | 23:37 |
| mikki-kun | mine showed it fails | 23:37 |
| lcuk | works for jpgs | 23:37 |
| lcuk | then repeat for pngs | 23:37 |
| lcuk | then add together | 23:37 |
| lcuk | nice that my graffiti wall can now list cleanly all of them :) | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | let's dump Qt and switch to liq* :P | 23:38 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: try changing *png/*jpg into .jpg... | 23:39 |
| mikki-kun | that will at least give you some results | 23:39 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: and for the sake of UPPER/lowercase i'd tweak grep with "-i" ;) | 23:40 |
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| MohammadAG | lol | 23:41 |
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| ToJa92 | is the command line for flasher in the wiki correct? I recall reading something about it being wrong, but Im not sure.... | 23:43 |
| mikki-kun | well, grep actually has a -c feature i see which means "count the lines as far as i understood it in a hurry" | 23:45 |
| mikki-kun | damn, who really came up with the idea of removing man-pages -.- | 23:45 |
| mikki-kun | ToJa92: it should... at least ir worked for me when i flashed my device to factory | 23:46 |
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| ToJa92 | hmm... I get "flasher-3.5.exe: option requires an argument -- r" | 23:50 |
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| ToJa92 | also, windows never found any drivers when I held u and connected the cable | 23:51 |
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| korhojoa | ToJa92: ? did you mean to type -R ? | 23:51 |
| ToJa92 | yeah | 23:52 |
| ToJa92 | that's the error in the wiki :P | 23:52 |
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| ToJa92 | now its working | 23:52 |
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| MohammadAG | ~flashing | 23:59 |
| infobot | from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 23:59 |
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