IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-05-05

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* noobmonk3y prods lcuk - still got all your teeth? :P 00:07
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* noobmonk3y prods frals - hows the trout farm? :P00:07
noobmonk3ymeh .... must be time for bed :P00:07
noobmonk3ybah bah ? bah humbug?00:08
fralswas suppose to package 1.0.0 today and write a post about it00:08
fralsmissus had other plans00:08
noobmonk3ynot allways a bad thing :P00:08
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fralsmhm :)00:08
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wirelessdreameri'm trying to dump a listing of the indexed music on my n900, I'm assuming I need to use one of the tracker-* command line tools, but i'm having trouble figuring out which one should be used, and with what args. anyone familiar with trackerd?00:26
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pupnikwirelessdreamer: tracker-files -m audio/mpeg   gives me all .mp3 files00:29
pupnikmaybe that can point you in right way00:29
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wirelessdreamerpupnik: thanks, any idea if id3 info can also be returned?00:31
wirelessdreamermainly artist and track title00:31
MAK_hi all iam now on pr1.2 and iam back to pr1.1 so the celluar data nt work so what ican do ?00:31
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:36
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pupnikno idea wirelessdreamer - i just hit tracker-[tab] and read the info00:36
tripzerowirelessdreamer, yes, you can get metadata from tracker00:37
tripzerohow... i have no idea00:37
tripzerobut it is possible00:37
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* SpeedEvil ponders the ultimate cheap-food app. 01:01
SpeedEvilTrack what you've got in your cupboards.01:01
SpeedEvilWatch supermarket sites for special offers.01:01
* DocScrutinizer rotfls at MAK01:01
SpeedEvilLook at online recipie sites, and work out the highest rated recipies you can make with stuff you've got.01:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: still following you diet plan?01:02
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SpeedEvil90% of the way there.01:04
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opdf2n900 on newegg front page. plz buy me lol01:13
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MohammadAGVertSMS in -devel01:23
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fralsfMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/01:25
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lcukRT: <frals> fMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/01:26
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MohammadAGRT: <lcuk> RT: <frals> fMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/01:26
MohammadAGfrals, heading to extras? :D01:27
MohammadAGJust checked twitter, guess so :)01:27
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PhonicUKis it possible for a script to pick up when the active profile has changed?01:30
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PhonicUKi want a way of setting my IMs to AFK when on silent.01:31
MohammadAGwouldn't it be better as a daemon?01:31
PhonicUKmaybe, depends if a script is already run on a profile switch01:32
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fralsdbusinterface at /com/nokia/profiled seems to be active during profile switch01:33
fralsintrospecting that might give you an idea of what to do01:33
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PhonicUKcool, cheers :)01:34
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opdf2frals:  ty01:53
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fralshit the promote button 5mins ago, wonder when its gonna stop loading the page02:20
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fralsPackage has been promoted. Go back to the package instance page.  \o/02:21
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* SpeedEvil is somewhat excited.02:22
* SpeedEvil would be more excited if he'd ever had occasion to send a mms. :)02:22
SpeedEvilSo - what's next? fvideocall?02:22
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SpeedEvilCan it break down, and tell you how many total downloads you've had?02:23
summelpupnik: ?02:23
fralslast count i did which was 2 days ago i think i had 170k downloads from -devel02:24
SpeedEvilSo - divide by 83 versions, and ?02:24
SpeedEvilor are those seperate?02:24
fralsits total over all versions02:25
SpeedEvilStill awesome :)02:26
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MohammadAG_<SpeedEvil> So - what's next? fvideocall?02:26
SpeedEvilI imagine that most people don't update that regularly :)02:26
MohammadAG_Yay thanks frals !02:26
fralsim happy, seems there are a few people benefiting from the application at least :)02:26
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SpeedEvilfrals: Indeed, and if all of them bought you a beer, you'd drown!02:26
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fralsid be dead but it be a good way to go out!02:27
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MohammadAG_frals, you did promote both archs right? :)02:27
MohammadAG_then do it02:28
fralsdo i need to do that?02:28
MohammadAG_well I had to02:28
fralsmight as well then02:28
fralsneed to repackage sharing-fmms and make it lib/ or whatever instead of user/ tomorrow ;(02:29
MohammadAG_why tomorrow?02:30
fralsbecause its 0130 and i need to be at uni tomorrow :p02:30
MohammadAG_The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:02:30
MohammadAG_  rootsh02:30
MohammadAG_ huh02:30
MohammadAG_frals, lib/what?02:31
Nomahow complicated would it be to make a widget for customizable internet searches (consisting of a textbox and a drop-down selector for the search engine)?02:31
SpeedEvilNoma: Isn't there one?02:31
fralslib/whatever, dunno what section it should be but anything but under user ;P02:31
SpeedEvilNoma: I've got one on my desk02:31
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SpeedEvilNoma: oh02:31
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SpeedEvilNoma: it's not selectable is it - it just is configurable to oen02:31
Nomamaybe i need to contact the developer if he could add that feature, i have like ten different search engines i'd like to use02:32
SpeedEvilI haven't relaly investigated if it can do what you want02:33
Nomai'll try02:33
Nomaactually it does just what i needed02:35
Nomaty :)02:35
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Nomaall it needs now is automatic import from my desktop pc's google chrome...:p02:36
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SpeedEvilOooh - shiny. Bootchart in busybox02:45
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IkarusSpeedEvil: oooh02:57
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fralsbah i should really go to bed now03:02
fralsbut out of 8 replies 4 are because they refuse to actually read the first fucking post in my new thread03:02
SpeedEvilniht all03:03
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fralsnn SpeedEvil03:03
MohammadAG_night SpeedEvil03:03
GAN900frals, sucker03:03
MohammadAG_frals, request that your old thread gets closed :)03:04
GAN900frals, why would anybody read anything on Talk? :P03:04
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Nomaslightly offtopic, but does anyone know if it's possible to make a web form send its information forward as iso-8859-1, even though its input is utf-8 from the user?03:04
MohammadAG_GAN900, cause there's still hope with users like frals on it :P03:04
timeless_mbpNoma:  "yes"03:05
timeless_mbpnote that your question is poorly phrased03:05
timeless_mbpinput is unicode03:05
timeless_mbputf-8 is merely the default encoding provided at submission time03:05
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timeless_mbpdom is typically utf1603:05
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Nomahow do i do it then? is it like some simple javascript thing or?03:06
timeless_mbpit's 3am03:06
timeless_mbpask google, or offer a consulting fee03:06
* timeless_mbp goes back to fighting apt03:07
Nomai thought somebody could've helped me for free if it was really simple thing to do :p03:07
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MohammadAG_<timeless_mbp> ask google, or offer a consulting fee LOL03:07
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fralsMohammadAG_: yeah i reported it when i posted the new one03:08
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luke-jrNoma: that's under "ask google"03:09
DocScrutinizer~seen javispedro03:09
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7h 41m 56s ago, saying: 'oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it.'.03:09
Nomai've been asking google for a moment now but haven't come up with a solution03:10
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DocScrutinizerjeeeez, tmo (the server) sucks03:15
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DocScrutinizer2 out of 3 HTTP requests get dropped or timeout03:15
* DocScrutinizer suspects DoS03:16
DocScrutinizerDDoS by massive multiple biological entities03:16
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DocScrutinizers/entities/stupid entities/03:17
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: DDoS by massive multiple biological stupid entities03:17
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timeless_mbpcan someone tell me what /proc/sys/kernel/version is in pr1.1.103:25
tripzero#1 PEREMPT Tue Apr 12 10:48:47 EEST 201003:27
tripzerooops, that's Apr 13*03:27
timeless_mbpin 1.1.1?03:27
timeless_mbpis it really 2010?03:27
timeless_mbpthat seems highly suspicious03:27
tripzeroidk, is 1.1.1 the latest?03:27
MohammadAG_or he uses bootmenu?03:28
timeless_mbpok, scratch using the kernel as a determinant03:28
timeless_mbphow do i recognize pr1.1.1?03:28
MohammadAG_use tablet-browser-ui :P03:28
timeless_mbpi think i'll go back to using libhildon103:28
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MohammadAG_timeless_mbp, dpkg -l mp-fremantle-*03:29
timeless_mbppeople delete that03:29
MohammadAG_their problem03:29
timeless_mbpand it various regionally and operatorwise03:29
DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-02-8:~# cat /proc/sys/kernel/version03:29
DocScrutinizer#1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 200903:29
tripzeroyour's is old03:29
MohammadAG_hmm indeed03:29
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: thanks, but tripzero has proven i can't use it03:30
MohammadAG_tripzero, any chance your device is a UK one?03:30
tripzeroi do have the extras-devel repo added though03:30
MohammadAG_timeless_mbp, it's 3.2010* for all devices03:30
MohammadAG_and all variants03:30
tripzeroand i'm not sure if this is a default kernel03:30
* tripzero installed kernel-flasher-maemo and doesn't know if it really does anything03:30
tripzeroand is too lazy to check03:30
MohammadAG_timeless_mbp, what does the package change anyways?03:30
MohammadAG_the one you're making03:31
timeless_mbpmine replaces all localization strings for a locale03:31
timeless_mbpand it needs to know if you have pr1.1.1- or pr1.2_03:31
MohammadAG_why replaces?03:31
timeless_mbpbecause some idiots broke the abi03:31
timeless_mbpMohammadAG_: because the alternatives are disasters03:31
DocScrutinizerdarn, yeah. Dec 17 2009? WTF?03:31
MohammadAG_timeless_mbp, just add_remove_language03:31
timeless_mbpMohammadAG_: printf(FOO, 5)03:31
timeless_mbpMohammadAG_: i'm replacing enus or engb03:31
timeless_mbpnot adding a language03:31
MohammadAG_but.. why03:32
timeless_mbpthe language exists, it just hapens to suck03:32
timeless_mbpbecause it happens to suck *a lot*03:32
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timeless_mbpcan we not discuss this?03:33
timeless_mbpi've spent >3 years dealing w/ that part03:33
MohammadAG_was gonna say echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION03:33
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MohammadAG_but I think that depends on mp-fremantle-generic-pr03:33
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Termanagood morning03:33
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG_: can you verify that?03:35
DocScrutinizer51FFS, now that would explain A LOT, if they replaced the rootfs/kernel by a  new rootfs but fsckng old kernel03:35
tripzerobtrfs ftw03:35
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MohammadAG_Nokia-N900:~# dpkg -r mp-fremantle-generic-pr03:35
MohammadAG_(Reading database ... 47856 files and directories currently installed.)03:35
MohammadAG_Removing mp-fremantle-generic-pr ...03:35
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* timeless_mbp busy-waits03:36
TermanaWhat is the theory being tested? :P03:36
MohammadAG_<timeless_mbp> how do i recognize pr1.1.1?03:37
timeless_mbpthat's the problem statement03:37
timeless_mbpMohammadAG_'s theory is that mp-fremantle-*-* controls $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION03:37
MohammadAG_I think my theory sucks03:37
timeless_mbpdefine sucks? :)03:37
MohammadAG_it showed the version after removing it03:38
MohammadAG_sec, removed /tmp/*03:38
MohammadAG_Nokia-N900:~# rm /tmp/.opi.tmp  <--- that03:38
timeless_mbpfind / -xdev|xargs -n 10 grep -l $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION03:39
timeless_mbp? :)03:39
MohammadAG_huh? lol03:39
MohammadAG_just echo it03:39
timeless_mbpi'm not trying to echo it03:39
timeless_mbpi'm trying to find which files have it :)03:39
MohammadAG_No route to host <-- hate it when it takes ages to initialize ssh and connect to a network03:40
Gh0stysome native english people here ? :)03:40
timeless_mbpwell, native speakers03:40
MohammadAG_timeless_mbp, it seems to be working, remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr on your device and clear /tmp to check03:40
Gh0styis it: project follow-up for the building of a new room03:40
Gh0styor: project follow-up for the build of a new room03:41
MohammadAG_Nokia-N900:~# echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION03:41
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: uname -a ?03:42
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MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, doesn't show version03:42
DocScrutinizerI know what it doesn't show03:42
timeless_mbpuname -a is unreliable03:42
MohammadAG_(mind you I did break mp-fremantle-generic-pr by installing 1.2 packages a long time ago)03:42
timeless_mbpas someone else already showed03:42
DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-02-8:~# uname -a03:43
DocScrutinizerLinux Nokia-N900-02-8 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 armv7l unknown03:43
Gh0stytimeless_mbp: an idea? :)03:43
MohammadAG_timeless_mbp, just break mp-fremantle to check, you can reinstall it later03:43
timeless_mbpsorry, watching tv :)03:43
MohammadAG_(yes it can be reinstalled_03:43
timeless_mbpthe latter makes no sense03:43
DocScrutinizercan somebody explain to me why I get that incredibly old kernel build date?03:44
timeless_mbpGh0sty: the first sentence isn't great03:44
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, when was your last reflash?03:45
DocScrutinizersupposedly 2 weeks ago03:45
MohammadAG_(though it really shouldn't matter)03:45
MohammadAG_so timeless_mbp did you break it?03:45
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, maybe it's not old?03:45
MohammadAG_I have a custom kernel so I can't check03:45
timeless_mbpGh0sty: what are you trying to say?03:45
DocScrutinizerDec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009  that actually sounds old to me03:46
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: consider when pr1.1 and pr1.1.1 were shipped03:46
DocScrutinizerso that kernel build date is ok for 3.2010.02-8 ?03:47
timeless_mbpit seems reasonable03:47
DocScrutinizerok, nm. thanks03:47
DocScrutinizerjust was baffled03:47
MohammadAG_timeless_mbp, did you check or not lol03:48
DHRhas any third-party built a Maemo image for a Nokia 770 or n800?  Is that possible?  Useful?03:49
timeless_mbpMohammadAG_: nah03:49
timeless_mbpnot worth it03:49
MohammadAG_worth what?03:49
timeless_mbpi have to decide if that variable is useful03:49
MohammadAG_it is03:49
MohammadAG_when you uninstall mp-fremantle-*-pr you only uninstall the metapackage03:50
MohammadAG_an apt-get install mp-fremantle-*-pr should bring it back in 4 seconds03:50
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timeless_mbpnot for me03:51
timeless_mbpi'm not running 1.1.103:51
timeless_mbpand only 1.1.1 is available03:51
timeless_mbpso you're suggesting i tell my device to commit suicide03:51
timeless_mbpif i was running 1.1.1, i could test this stuff myself ;-)03:53
timeless_mbpwhat's the shell script friendly form of apt?03:54
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Gh0stytimeless_mbp: updating my CV :)03:55
MohammadAG_<timeless_mbp> i'm not running 1.1.103:55
Gh0stytimeless_mbp: trying to say that i was doing the project follow-up while they were building a new dataroom in our building ...03:55
timeless_mbpGh0sty: are the two related?03:56
Gh0styI am project-lead facilities03:57
Gh0stylet me put it that way :p03:57
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luke-jrBLAME Stskeeps :D03:59
* satmd blames luke-jr for not being superior ;P04:00
luke-jrbut I *am* superior...04:00
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luke-jreven bought a dirt cheap Samsung phone from Cricket for $30...04:00
ljpoh, goodness. but what about the children?!04:05
luke-jrljp: what's that have to do with them?04:05
satmdif you didn't buy it, eventuelly it'll end up in trash04:06
satmdwith children getting paid for collecting spare parts from it :o04:06
satmdexposing them to dangerous material04:06
ljpthose poor children starving because you did not buy a nokia04:07
luke-jrif Nokia wants me to buy, they need to make a phone that meets my requirements :P04:07
Termanaluke-jr, I thought you were planning to upgrade to the n900? :P04:08
luke-jrTermana: nope, never was04:08
luke-jrprobably never will04:08
luke-jrhonestly, it looks like N900 would be a downgrade04:08
luke-jrexcept for RAM04:08
microlithdowngrade from what?04:08
luke-jrand even then N900 doesn't really have enough04:08
Termanabut... but.............................................. PR1.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!oneoneone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111two04:08
microlithluke-jr: aside from the outright better processor?04:09
luke-jrmicrolith: only slightly better04:09
luke-jr600 MHz vs 400 isn't much04:09
microlitheven though the architecture is different?04:09
luke-jrnow if it was one of those dual core Snapdragons, maybe...04:09
arachnistluke-jr: yeah, n900 has only better cpu, more ram, better battery life and an included 3g modem04:09
arachnist(than the n800)04:09
luke-jrmicrolith: shrug. never waiting on CPU for N810 AFAIK04:09
luke-jrarachnist: useless 3G modem04:10
ShadowJKthe 600MHz in n900 is more like 1200 n810-MHz ;)04:10
arachnistluke-jr: why useless?04:10
Termanaluke-jr, The difference between OMAP2 and OMAP3 is more than just clock speed04:10
microlith"useless" he says, as he wanders away from the access point and loses internet access04:10
luke-jrarachnist: 3G service in the USA is crazy expensive04:10
luke-jrin any case, the display size change is a big difference04:10
ShadowJKyes, that's the biggest downside to n90004:11
ShadowJKit's too small04:11
luke-jrN900 vs N810, I'd list size as #1 problem; then price maybe04:11
haltdef_enough small phones, give me a htc universal sized beast04:11
ShadowJKIf you can make do with the slower cpu and smaller ram, and don't want cellular, stick with n81004:11
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: o/04:12
luke-jrShadowJK: I'd love cellular... but CDMA04:12
microlithmm, vendor-lock04:12
luke-jractually, my ideal would be a device with a software-defined radio capable of CDMA/GSM/3G/iDEN/etc04:12
Termanaluke-jr, no love for Android devices I suspect? :P04:12
ljphaltdef_: then get an iPad 3g. thats a huge iPhone04:12
luke-jrTermana: heck no :P04:12
Termanaluke-jr, You could put Gentoo on them though! :P04:13
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luke-jrTermana: could I? maybe then04:13
microlithiPad 3g doesn't support voice calls (yet, I suspect someone will hack it eventually.)04:13
arachnistnothing like usa, where each carrier has his own standards...04:13
luke-jranyhow, where I am, I can only see myself using CDMA right now04:13
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ShadowJKchina also has one standard per carrier, to stifle competition04:14
luke-jrthe rest of my family uses Sprint (CDMA), and Cricket (CDMA) is cheapest here04:14
ShadowJKcommunism at its best ;)04:14
luke-jrand there's about as many CDMA carriers as 3G carriers, so... 3G is just as much vendor lockin :p04:14
microlithwell, no04:14
arachnistluke-jr: 3g is more wideworld spread04:15
microlithCDMA you can't buy a phone from the vnedor and use it04:15
microlithyou have to buy it from the carrier04:15
arachnist(ie: it's available here in europe)04:15
Termanaluke-jr, definitely you could put Gentoo on most Android phones. Nexus One already has Debian and Gentoo running on it, then there will be my MeeGo port. Nexus One is unsuitable for you though, because of a) GSM and b) no keyboard - but you could do the same I'm sure with the Droid04:16
luke-jrarachnist: well, that hardly matters when I'm locked to one State04:17
luke-jrmicrolith: do you? pretty sure if it's unlocked you can just call carrier to activate it04:17
luke-jrTermana: Droid also has problems for me :)04:18
luke-jrTermana: does Android's kernel actually work with standard *nix userland, though?04:18
microlithluke-jr: a) good luck finding unlocked CDMA phones and b) good luck getting Sprint/Verizon to OK it.04:18
Termanaluke-jr, yes04:18
luke-jrmicrolith: you forget /Cricket :p04:18
microlithassuming they even run their own network04:19
luke-jrmicrolith: Cricket has shops around town that will reflash another carrier's phone. ;P04:19
* microlith questions that04:19
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luke-jrfine, I'll get their site...04:20
arachnistTermana: is it possible to get glibc (not replacing their bastardized libc that doesn't even support .so's) + normal ELF executables on android?04:22
luke-jr"Come to The Spot today to have your old Sprint, Alltel, or even Verizon phone flashed over to the Cricket Network."04:22
microliththat's not /Cricket/04:22
luke-jrarachnist: IIRC you can chroot to a normal Debian filesystem from Android at least04:22
luke-jrmicrolith: it's a Cricket Authorized Dealer04:22
microlithsure, that means they can sell service04:23
microlithand activate phones on the network04:23
luke-jrit also means Cricket accepts the phones they flash :P04:23
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Termanaarachnist, not directly in Android no. But things like busybox have been compiled for Android, so yes I assume normal executables can be made.04:23
microlithbut still you're left with the fact that you have to pay or beg the carrier to let your device on04:23
luke-jrmicrolith: uh, no04:24
microlithand hope you have the option to pay at all04:24
luke-jryou just activate it on Cricket's network04:24
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Termanaarachnist, and then as luke-jr says you can chroot into Debian, or if you don't want to use Android at all, just boot up into Debian and forget about Android04:24
luke-jrthe flashing is obviously undoing a carrier lock04:24
microlithit's still not as clean as buying an unlocked GSM phone and putting your SIM in it04:25
luke-jryeah, the hotpluggability of SIM cards is nice, but a different issue entirely04:26
asjWrkluke-jr: not really, you can't easily register that phone with another carrier04:26
luke-jrand SIM cards are not necessarily 3G or even GSM04:26
luke-jriDEN uses SIM cards too04:26
luke-jrand China has a SIM-card-like thing for CDMA04:26
microlithiDEN is also a minority technology04:26
microlithand china is, well, china04:27
luke-jrmicrolith: it is still cheaper than GSM :)04:27
luke-jrif I wanted data on my new plan, I'd have gone with Boost Mobile (iDEN)04:27
TermanaIt should be mentioned technically 3G is CDMA04:28
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luke-jryou mean the term "3G" or the actual 3G tech?04:28
Termanaluke-jr, the tech behind 3G04:28
Termanalook up UMTS and WCDMA04:29
asjWrkTermana: umts and wcmda aren't the only 3g techs04:29
timeless_mbpfwiw, i was looking for dpkg-query :)04:29
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: yeah, that's what I told you..04:30
TermanaasjWrk, right, but I think its the most used one. I might be wrong on that though04:30
asjWrkTermana: verizon and what ever it's called in the US would disagree ;)04:31
timeless_mbpluke-jr: oops, sorry, i must have missed that04:31
TermanaasjWrk, right they are EV-DO (?), but AT&T and T-Mobile would be UMTS/WCDMA (?)04:32
* MohammadAG_ smacks forehead so heard it redefines a facepalm
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asjWrkTermana: sadly TMO isnt umts, it's something special, which the n900 supports, AWS or what ever it's called04:33
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njsf_Termana: AT&T is UMTS/HSDPA on 850/1900 T-Mobile on rest of the world normality freqs04:34
asjWrknjsf_: no :)04:34
TermanaRight, different frequencies, but its still UMTS isn't it04:34
Termanaplus, Telstra in Australia are 850 :P04:34
asjWrkTermana: there's a lot of 850 popping up, 3 or 4 countries now we last counted here04:35
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Termana"3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+) service by T-Mobile exclusively uses the AWS 1700/2100 MHz frequency-band" - from wikipedia04:35
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TermanaWhich confirms my statement, T-Mobile is still UMTS04:35
asjWrkTermana: ah ok. anyone else in the world doing 1700/2100? (it's not the same 2100 as the rest of the world)04:36
timeless_mbpcan someone do this for me:04:36
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njsf_well except for crappy reception caused by my workplace (there is some RF shielding as it is an old IBM building) I am happy with T-Mobile service in the Westchester, NY area04:36
timeless_mbpdpkg-query -f '${Version}\n' -W libhildon104:36
TermanaI don't know about 1700, but we have a heap of carriers in Australia doing 900/210004:36
njsf_I quite frequently get HSDPA+ "3.5G" connectivity04:37
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TermanaHSDPA is technically still WCDMA/UMTS underneath as well AFAIK, its just an added layer04:38
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asjWrkTermana: should use the HSPA these days to include HSUPA04:40
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* njsf_ *shighs* as he just wished everywhere carriers/governments would just agree on a cell standard 04:46
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timeless_mbpnjsf: about 9' by 12'04:48
microlithtimeless_mbp: 2.2.3-1+0m504:48
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njsf_timeless_mbp:  ?!04:51
njsf_timeless_mbp: ohhhh got the joke04:51
njsf_I really would not know about cell dimensions really04:51
njsf_9'x12' is not bad by NYC standards either :D04:52
DocScrutinizer51Termana: HSPA is to UMTS what EDGE is to GPRS04:53
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TermanaDocScrutinizer51, right, so just an extension of the standard, correct?04:58
DocScrutinizer51basically yes04:58
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MohammadAGGnite #maemo05:08
* njsf_ wants to hide and not have to understand acronyms :D05:09
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DocScrutinizernjsf_: there's ~wtf05:17
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DocScrutinizercomes really handy sometimes05:17
njsf_DocScrutinizer: ohh now you are talking about home :D05:18
DocScrutinizeryeah, you'll find wtf on your shell as well :-P05:18
njsf_well bash is my friend, busybox not so much05:19
DocScrutinizersee 'man wtf'05:19
DocScrutinizernah, not on friggin messybox05:20
DocScrutinizeron a *real* linux ;-P05:20
DocScrutinizer~wtf wtf05:20
infobotWTF: {what,where,who,why} the fuck05:20
njsf_DocScrutinizer: there is no real linux, kernel has no man page05:20
DocScrutinizer~wtf tla05:21
infobotTLA: three letter acronym05:22
DocScrutinizer~wtf etla05:22
infobotETLA: extended three letter acronym05:22
satmdi am too tired to go on05:23
DocScrutinizer~wtf IATTTGO05:23
infobotGee...  I don't know what IATTTGO means...05:23
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* njsf_ has had too much red wine tonight to carry an intelligent conversation :)05:23
satmdI just made that one up05:24
satmd~wtf satmd05:24
infobotGee...  I don't know what satmd means...05:24
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njsf_I like Satellite Doctors!05:27
satmdI see what you did there, hacking the satellite :p05:27
* Trizt thinks it's time to go and sleep, just two hours until time to get up05:27
satmdsame for me05:28
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DocScrutinizer~wtf eeprom05:28
infobotGee...  I don't know what eeprom means...05:28
DocScrutinizer~wtf -t comp eeprom05:28
infobotusage: wtf <foo>.05:28
njsf_hehe I am just drunk eventually I will fall asleep :D05:28
Triztlucky you05:28
njsf_Trizt: tell it to my liver in 10 yrs time :D05:29
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DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~/Documents/N900/i2c-tools-3.0.2> wtf -t comp eeprom05:29
DocScrutinizerEEPROM: electrically erasable programmable read only memory05:29
Triztnjsf_; in ten years time they will make you a new one05:29
satmda wild satmd disappears05:30
Triztoff to bed with me05:30
satmdnight folks05:30
njsf_Trizt: from your mouth to (God's hear|HMO approval office)05:30
njsf_night n8 all05:30
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* DocScrutinizer is tempted to stay awake, as 1h after falling asleep the tooth starts to kill. And today no more painkillers05:34
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njsf_DocScrutinizer: call the police to arrest the tooth and have a nice restful night ! :D05:42
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DocScrutinizer51I'm sure it would take me less than 20sec to make them joyfully help me by extracting a number of teeth. I'm just not convinced they'll get the right one05:45
njsf_DocScrutinizer51: Well the health plan insurance company will extract the right amount of copay and premium :D05:46
* njsf_ is in a cynical mood and apologizes to anyone offended05:46
wall[e]i am offended05:47
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* wall[e] doesn't like missing parameter.05:47
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njsf_wall[e]: 42 is your missing parameter05:50
wall[e]and life and universe and girlfriend.05:50
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njsf_or wife :O)05:53
njsf_but hey... I was not drunk sleeping covered by a news paper in a public park05:54
* njsf_ wonders how many H2G2 fans will get that :D05:55
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wall[e]not me!05:55
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njsf_ wall[e]: you need to read the H2G2 ultimate foreword by the author then :D06:01
wall[e]Thanks! :)06:02
njsf_basically D.A. states that was when the idea of H2G2 came to hime06:02
njsf_when the Europe on $5 a day was too expensive for him06:02
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njsf_and he found himself drunk on a public park (can't remember where) and the local hobo stole the newspapers covering him for the night without any cerimony06:03
wall[e]interesting, will look for time06:04
wall[e]didn't get a life since i got n90006:04
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asjWrkwall[e]: you had one before? ;)06:04
wall[e]lol sure06:05
* njsf_ lusts for a don't panic animation on boot 06:05
wall[e]was an artist, now hacking stuffs06:05
wall[e]and now creativetone will make me get back to my carrier06:06
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wall[e]install mypaint woohoo06:06
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njsf_wall[e]: I am shure Thailand has plenty of life to offer ;)06:12
wall[e]give us a visit!06:13
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njsf_wall[e]: maybe sometime. I'd love to, but I can't see the wheels of fortune aligning that way06:14
wall[e]waiting for pr1.2 is like wondering if my gf will let me get laid tonight or not06:15
TermanaNot likely to happen?06:16
wall[e]better go working on graphics magick06:16
asjWrkwall[e]: who does she normally let you get laid with?06:16
wall[e]i want to write a uis for assembling tool chain06:16
wall[e]over gm06:17
wall[e]and may be anything else06:17
njsf_wall[e]: better not make that kind of correlation.06:17
wall[e]asjWrk, herself!06:17
wall[e]i wish gnustep is ported :S06:18
wall[e]so i don't need to port it myself06:18
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* njsf_ is so pissed at Apple antics that is getting antagonistic at anything Objective-C or *Step ;)06:20
wall[e]better bring it out of their control then!06:21
njsf_why bother about it ? just make a decent alternative, hence much of the "though love" towards maemo/meego06:23
wall[e]consider working on opengl es for gnustep06:23
njsf_wall[e]: basics first06:23
wall[e]well, i can't live without dynamic desig pattern06:23
njsf_flawless audio, and good comms06:23
njsf__then_ eye candy06:24
wall[e]fast application dev ftw06:24
* wall[e] checks if anyone port squeak06:24
wall[e]yes cool06:25
wall[e]njsf, I don't have much experience in those fields06:25
njsf_wall[e]: as much I love smalltalk, ARM embedded devices are not ready yet to handle it06:25
wall[e]too bad :/06:25
wall[e]well, the same reason when i picked objc06:26
njsf_wall[e]: indeed obj-c dispatch resembles a lot smalltalk06:26
wall[e]also perfect fit to use existing c based frameowrk06:27
njsf_it is a nice system, but as I stated I am antagonistic on political reasons not technical06:27
wall[e]nah, apple didn't invent objective-c06:27
wall[e]neither step06:27
njsf_it is almost like the mono debate for me with gnustep06:27
wall[e]but the evil one invented it06:27
wall[e]at nextstep06:27
njsf_wall[e]: NextStep engineers did, and Jobs took it to apple06:28
wall[e](objc isn't, just step)06:28
njsf_well the _base class_ is NS_Object for a reason :P06:28
wall[e]there used to be time I didn't use foundataion framework just objc06:28
wall[e]I thought it stands for NameSpace06:28
* wall[e] is innocent06:28
njsf_nope, it stands for NextStep06:29
wall[e]yeh, just kidding06:29
wall[e]it was NX though06:29
wall[e]then NS06:29
njsf_no, but I could check with a college friend that had early access06:30
njsf_I am 99.9999% sure :D06:30
wall[e]NS = Nextstep yes06:30
wall[e]just once, before foundation and appkit, there were NSClasses06:31
wall[e]er NXClasses06:31
wall[e]look for NXConstantString06:31
njsf_hmmm where should I look :D ?06:32
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wall[e]I've heard that NS = NeXT + Sun though, but I don't think that's right.06:33
wall[e]njsf, google! :)06:33
wall[e]before NeXT and Sun made openstep, it was NX06:33
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wall[e]so somebody tends to think that NS = NX + Sun06:33
wall[e]but i think they want to mean it for NameSpace06:34
arachnistmaybe they ment "NovellSucks"? ;)06:34
njsf_wall[e]: Somehow I don't think NS = NeXT + Sun06:34
wall[e]neither do i06:35
wall[e]but they renamed it from NX at some point06:35
njsf_Sun was heavy into PostScript display06:35
njsf_kinda like Apple is into PDF based display06:35
wall[e]ah that was gosling06:35
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wall[e]yeh DPS06:35
wall[e]was hacking that for a while06:35
wall[e]then goes cairo06:35
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njsf_woahhh there06:36
arachnistcairo is slow :/06:36
njsf_that is like a decade jump06:36
wall[e]can wait06:36
wall[e]may be some e folks can help but they don't tesselate beziers06:36
wall[e]or that was old fact?06:37
wall[e]didn't follow e dev for quite some times06:37
* njsf_ is starting to feel the effect of 1.5L of red wine :D06:37
wall[e]at least raster's here.06:37
wall[e]sorry if i gave you a bell06:37
wall[e]too bad i didn't drink06:38
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wall[e]nothing left for me beside strip teasing girls in the heaven.06:38
njsf_wall[e]: let me know when you can send some :D06:38
genewitch1do you guys still help with my ancient n800 tablet? the rss feed reader decided it didn't want to read 8 out of 11 feeds, restarting, clearing image cache didn't do anything. it says "unable to refresh selected/some feeds, try again later"06:38
njsf_genewitch1: I know some on the Maemo community use the 8x0 series06:39
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njsf_I personally only have n900, sorry06:39
genewitch1yeah, I was being tongue in cheek :-)  all I use the n800 for is rss feeds and grand central dialing, and the occasional website. but it still uses a full battery charge each day.06:40
genewitch1losing half the functionality is kind of a pain :-p06:40
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ShadowJKstill on original battery?06:40
genewitch1I have an original and one I bought06:41
genewitch1if the radio is off I can use it for hours and hours06:41
genewitch1but it goes about 12 with with radio on and light use06:41
genewitch1I'm also booting from the internal SD slot rather than flash, if that matters at all06:42
ShadowJKmine goes about 2 days with wifi on and an hour web browsing a day06:42
njsf_genewitch1: what wifi class are we talking ? b or g?06:42
genewitch1njsf_: g06:42
njsf_same access point(s) all the time ?06:43
genewitch1If I tell it to turn off the radio after X minutes I don't have to charge it often at all, but I like being able to touch the screen and have google voice place a call for me, or text without having to wait for the wifi to come up.06:43
genewitch1njsf_: yes06:43
genewitch1well, 99% of the time06:43
genewitch1sometimes I take it out to SMS from a restaurant.06:44
njsf_genewitch1: not knowledgeable enough, hopefully someone else can chime in06:45
genewitch1the radio is on 10mW maximum power saving. I doubt any of this has to do with the feed reader. I guess I'll start searching the website for how to fix it. one thing I can do is restart on flash and see if the stock system is failing on RSS feeds as well.06:47
genewitch1nope, the one on flash is not working either06:50
genewitch1Evidently my router is being stupid. Oh well, thanks anyhow!06:50
ShadowJK10mW vs 100mW isn't a powersaving seting06:50
ShadowJKthe radiated power is marginal compared to total wifi usage06:51
genewitch1ShadowJK: there's two dropdown menus06:51
genewitch1one says maximum power saving the other says 10mW06:51
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genewitch1I get really good reception anywhere in my apartment so I think that's why I set it to 10mW06:52
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wall[e]need memory06:57
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Termanaraster, ping07:19
* raster has been summoned07:21
* raster appears in a puff of magic purple smoke07:21
Termanaraster, I know you've done some work regarding OpenGL ES libs, so I was wondering if I could ask you a question about them07:22
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Termanaraster, I'm looking to do a port of MeeGo to the Nexus One, and I assume that the Handset UX will be Open GL ES 2 based. Are GLES libs ( and in this case) normally generic, or are they X11 or Android specific?07:24
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raster:-P android07:25
rasteri would say they will be useless to you07:25
rasterandroid specific07:25
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rasterfor meego u will need x1107:26
Termanahmm thats a pain in the arse :P07:26
rasterand that means dir/drm07:26
rasterand x11 support07:26
rasteryes it is07:26
rasterandroid is a pain in the arse07:26
Termanaraster, Since the n900 and the Droid/Milestone use the same PowerVR, can the Droid PowerVR libs and driver be used on the n900? (This question is for NITdroid :P)07:27
rasteranroid is nothing like linux - it's a google world (well more specifically its an os started by a bunch of guys who left danger who did the sidekick and they got bought by google - they dont come form the linux world. they simply re-used a linux kernel because it saved them writing their own)07:27
rastermy guess is that you'd be able to use the same kernel drivers for 90% of things07:28
rasterof course baseband, wifi, etc. will vary - ie peripherals07:28
rasterbut 3d is on-chip07:28
Termanaso 3D driver and libs would probably be interoperable between the n900 and Droid?07:28
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Termanaraster, ^^07:30
rasterwith the same xserver, same kernel - yes07:30
rastersame pretty much everything07:30
raster3d driver is dependant on kernel module parts07:30
rasterrememebr that07:30
rasterand for it to work with x11 - same07:30
rasterdependant on server bits07:31
rasterand vice-versa07:31
Termanaraster, right, but this time we are going the other way, Droid driver/lib onto the n900 for the NITdroid guys, so everything would be the same Android-wise07:31
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Termanaraster, so theoretically as long as the NITdroid people use the same kernel module for the PowerVR they could use the Droid's libs to have working 3D?07:33
rasterooh sorry07:33
rasterother way07:33
rasterummm - i guess so.07:33
rasteri have no interest in helping android out :)07:33
Termanaraster, heh :P no problem, I just thought I'd ask for DJ_Steve's sake since he is doing the n900 Android port.07:34
Termanaraster, thanks as well :)07:34
rasterthey can look after themselves07:35
rasterthey have more devices out here now with android than linux07:35
rasteri dont see the point of porting to the n90007:35
rasterthey have a droid07:35
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luke-jrTermana: Droid 3D libs are most likely non-redistributable08:15
luke-jrso unless someone owns both N900 and Droid... :p08:15
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* RST38h yawns08:23
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lcukmornin RST38h08:26
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Termanaluke-jr, Yes, but you also can't use Google's apps without Google's approval. Do you think thats going to stop him? :P08:28
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luke-jrTermana: it should08:31
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Termanaluke-jr, I'm not debating the merits of weather he should or should not do anything. I'm merely stating I don't think he is going to not allow the Google apps not to work. Lets face it, Android is bad as it is, take away Google's apps and what do you really have left?08:33
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Termanaerr, I think I make that sentence a bit confusing with the nots and don'ts etc. but you get the point of it :P08:34
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swc|666wtf is with my new n900 .. cant skype call and potr is broken in pidgin 0o08:37
infobotswc|666 meant: wtf is with my new n900 .. cant skype call and otr is broken in pidgin 0o08:37
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viliny_swc|666: leaked firmware?08:40
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luke-jrswc|666: Skype sucks; so does Pidgin08:42
pupnik_n900 browser is so damn useful...08:43
lcukpupnik_, indeed it is08:44
lcukits answered many bedtime discussions without having to leave the bed08:44
lcuk"the internet will know"08:44
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swc|666viliny_ not leaked.. official08:48
swc|666luke-jr, pidgin isnt too bad for me .. when otr worked08:48
swc|666no other viable client for my jabber server other than mcabber in a debian chroot08:49
luke-jrMaemo5 doesn't have builtin XMPP?08:49
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petteriyes it has08:50
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swc|666yeah but no OTR plugin afaik08:51
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swc|666k i'm a fsckin tard on the skype issue .. .enable calling phones != checked :/08:57
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pupnik!seen puphome09:01
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ColdFyreso i moved /usr/share to /home/usr/share, and symlinked /usr/share to it, and noy my n900 is stuck in a reboot loop09:20
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BusterBwhats the fastest method to reboot the n900? power button?09:22
BusterBor can i type reboot in xterm?09:22
ColdFyremine is currently stuck in a reboot loop atm09:22
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KhertanHello All !09:29
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mecehmm getting some depressing news on twitter :/09:31
mece@qole: Flash 10 NOT coming for the Nokia N900! We have to "wait for the next device". (From an inside source) #N900 #maemo #meego #flash09:34
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ColdFyreis there some possible way i cna fix with reboot loop w/o reflashing?09:34
BusterBmece: can u link to twitter?09:35
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meceBusterB, uuh? :)09:35
meceBusterB, or did you mean
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BusterBnm found it09:37
BusterByeah thats it09:37
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BusterBmece: u just made me sad lol09:38
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pupnikless devices supporting flash makes pupnik a happy cow09:39
Khertanhum ... firefox is still leaking on ubuntu 10.0409:39
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RST38hWas there time when FireFox DID NOT leak?09:47
TreibholzRST38h: in the early eighties.09:48
RST38hit's a freaking dynamic allocation nightmare09:48
ccookemorning, all09:48
zashTreibholz: you mean that netscape did't leak?09:48
RST38hwell, they had no DOM model then...09:48
Treibholzzash: in the early eighties?09:48
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KhertanRST38h, yes there was a time on the rc1.009:49
Khertani think it s due to a plugin to be honest09:49
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Khertanas if you remove all firefox plugin and extension09:50
Khertanin 24 hours i didn't see any leak09:50
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* Treibholz has reduced his plugins to the 3 most important09:53
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timeless_mbpis this maemo or windows or linux-desktop?09:53
Treibholzadblock, vimperator and FireGestures (and firebug on some)09:53
* Treibholz has no windows09:54
timeless_mbpnetscape 0.93 beta is © 1994 Netscape Communications Corporation09:54
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furunk3ly helo thar!09:58
RST38hKhertan: So what plugin was it?09:59
* RST38h personally sees leaks when browsing Google Analytics site10:00
KhertanRST38h, i desactive them one by one10:00
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KhertanRST38h, i desactivate them one by one10:00
TreibholzRST38h: adblock or fix your local DNS :-)10:00
RST38hTreib: ?10:00
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KhertanTreibholz, maybe he want to see his google analytics stats :)10:01
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pupniknice find alterego10:11
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alteregoYeah, I thought it was an interesting read. I wonder if it has anything to do with google's JVM, I bet MS have patented .NET CLR running on mobile hardware as a sandbox of somekind and they fear mongered HTC into royalty arrangements.10:12
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alteregoI find that quite disturbing really,10:12
Khertanhat MeeGo is safe from any and all patent claims because of the size and breadth of the companies' patent portfolios10:12
mecegreat quote ftfa: "they will use patents to protect those who adopt MeeGo against  opportunistic trolls and companies like Microsoft"10:12
RST38hGiven the poisonous IP climate in the States, it can be *anything*10:12
alteregoKhertan: yeah, that's what the article implies, that and meego is based on common GNU/Linux desktop technologies, they lost with SCO, they're not going to come after the mainstream again I doubt.10:13
alteregohnologies, they  lost with SCO, they're not going to come after the mainstream  again I doubt.10:13
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alteregomece: "theregister" is good like that ;)10:13
alteregochnologies, they  lost with SCO, they're not going to come after the mainstream  again I doubt.10:14
alteregoSorry for the paste, twice, my mouse went spaccy.10:14
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Khertan <<< someone have comment except the unsecure flyspray report ?10:16
alteregoKhertan: nice idea :)10:16
RST38hKehertan: "It is simple, really" and then 100+ lines of code? :)10:17
KhertanRST38h, of course ... for the interface10:17
Khertanthere is always too much line of code due to interface10:17
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Khertanbut the trapping exception is only 10 or 15 line10:17
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alteregoKhertan: I like how you've called it a "class" :P10:18
RST38hmoo, ab10:18
Khertanalterego, ?10:18
abRST38h, meeh10:18
alteregoLooks more like a module to me :P10:18
Khertanhum ... true10:18
Khertanit s not a class10:18
Khertanoups !10:19
Khertanand it s not really a module10:19
Khertantoo badly written10:19
* RST38h feels inclined to ask johnkzin if they search employees rectal cavities at Apple10:20
alteregoIs the qt4 (4.6.2) in extras-devel the version that will be shipped with the next firmware release (PR1.2)?10:20
RST38hI mean, that may be the only chance to find out...10:20
alteregoI'm thinking of installing it on the device for testing my Qt apps.10:20
meceAaaahaha RevdKathy "Don't worry, I have a set of 'get out of hell free' cards as  absolutants. Available in return for a small indulgence..." <310:20
Khertanalterego, i was interested by 4.6.2 too and found this10:21
fralsKhertan: isnt using %s faster than using + str + str btw?10:21
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Khertanfrals, it s10:22
alteregochnologies, they  lost with SCO, they're not going to come after the mainstream  again I doubt.10:22
Khertanfrals, it s faster yes10:22
Khertanbut just for %s10:22
Khertanand in fact it s not always the case10:22
Khertandepends on python10:22
Khertanbut it s doesn't follow pep8 ... this is sure10:23
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alteregoI generally always use interpolation over concatenation, mainly because I think it looks cleaner :)10:23
alteregoKhertan: thanks for the link, I guess others' are doing the same then.10:23
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Khertanalterego, i most of the time use concatenation, as the other language i mainly use for job is slower on interpolation10:24
Khertanand switching between them is sometime confusing :)10:24
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meceHey I need someone to test my mini app.. or particularly the dependencies for it.10:31
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meceI have installed pretty much everything there is in experimental libraries, so I need someone that has not got every version of qt and pyside on their device10:32
pupniki have some time mece10:33
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mecepupnik, ok, I'll send a deb to garage in a bit.10:34
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alteregotmo down again?10:35
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pupnikI dunno if Nokia should really give a rat's ass about the US market.  the USA is BROKE.10:36
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* ptl is stalled until the real PR1.2 comes out.10:37
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alteregoI think they should care, but I think they should concentrate more on the product, the customers will follow :)10:41
mecepupnik, ok tested on my own device, and at least it didn't implode. so upping deb to garage.10:42
Khertanit s pretty silent on talk currently ... it s just the calm before the tempest ?10:42
ptlI think people are just giving up silently.10:43
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meceperhaps abill_uk finally killed tmo!10:44
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Khertanhum ... for me it s not kill ... it s useable currently ;)10:46
KhertanfMMS 1.0.0 aka “time to sleep i think…” <-- nice name10:46
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Treibholzlistenig to a podcast AND browsing the web is a real pain...10:50
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X-FadeTreibholz: Yeah, you mean audio interruptions?10:53
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TreibholzX-Fade: yes.10:54
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Treibholzinterruptions would be tollerable, but it's just calm, so I miss words.10:55
X-FadeTreibholz: Noticed that too, but it is not the actual rendering in the browser it seems.10:55
TreibholzX-Fade: no, it's just anything, that seems to use CPU10:55
X-FadeTreibholz: It seems more IO/swaprelated10:55
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TreibholzI already turned swappiness down to 5010:56
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X-FadeTreibholz: Yeah, I'm playing with that too.10:56
X-FadeCan't put my finger on it though.10:56
Treibholzwell, maemo and the n900 are an expensive public beta :-)10:57
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ptlHi, X-Fade, you work at Nokia? Why is Nokia making us, its customers, endure so many frustrations with an update that should have been released long ago? Hack, the leaked PR1.2 is much better than the present software we are using and HK got its part.10:58
meceX-Fade, did you try using mplayer and bypass pulse?10:58
X-Fadeptl: No, I'm not.10:58
meceptl, not X-Fade's problem. He's not nokia.10:58
X-Fadeptl: Nokia will release when it is ready, if it is not out, it is clearly not ready yet.10:58
X-Fadeptl: Believe me, don't leave it sitting on a shelf just to piss you off.10:59
X-Fade*they don't.10:59
ptlOh, I got tired of this answer already. The big question is why it's "not ready", if it was released for HK and even the leaked PR1.2 is way better than the software I am currently running in my N900.10:59
pupnikbecause there are bugs10:59
ptleverything has bugs.10:59
ptlmost importantly, PR1.2 has bugfixes.11:00
KhertanTreibholz, try disabling flash in the browser11:00
Khertandisabling it i got less interruptions in audio player ... (do not ask me why :) )11:00
X-FadeGenerally when there are blocker bugs/regressions, they need to be fixed first.11:00
povbot`Bug 38528: was not found.11:00
pupnikptl, i also would prefer a more incremental fix-it strategy, but we are not running the company11:00
ptlAgreed but this was reasonable to be said about two months ago.11:00
ptlnot anymore.11:01
Anss|should webkit/webGL work in n900?11:01
ptlI am not currently participating in any of the brazilian forums I was in every day. Because if I do, I will tell everybody to sell their N900s.11:01
TreibholzKhertan: even on sites that definitively have NO flash.11:01
mecepupnik, I have a feeling they are moving towards incremental upgrades..11:02
KhertanTreibholz, even on sites without flash11:02
Stskeepsptl: i think we should be happy they're doing proper testing and process11:02
Stskeepsinstead of pushing out obviously broken crap.11:02
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X-FadeIncremental upgrades are hard because of certification.11:02
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pupniksee, there are good reasons why things are as they are.11:03
Treibholzflash is a disease anyway... ( This is a historic event! I agree with Steve Jobs! )11:03
X-FadeWhich takes quite a lot of time and is expensive.11:03
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KhertanTreibholz, flash is a pandemic11:04
Khertanbut steve jobs choice isn't better11:04
Treibholzflash isn't only used for video!!!!111oneoneeleven11:04
meceis there a useful open format for streaming video in browsers btw?11:05
Treibholzmece: theora.11:05
meceTreibholz, righty.11:05
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RST38hX-Fade: You do not need to certify most of the system11:05
RST38hX-Fade: Just the stuff that deals with cellular11:06
mecepupnik, did you test? What happened?11:06
StskeepsRST38h: and bluetooth..11:06
X-FadeRST38h: There are multiple things that need to be certified, not only cellular.11:06
Stskeepsand usb..11:06
jpewatch out, jobs is after theora as well...11:06
RST38hX-Fade: This does not prevent Nokia from releasing an update to Modest, for example11:06
RST38hX-Fade: Or MicroB11:06
StskeepsRST38h: modest is publically developed11:07
X-FadeRST38h: Microb is a bad example.11:07
RST38hX-Fade: So, no, certification does not apply 100% here =)11:07
X-FadeAs flash needs cert too ;)11:07
Stskeepsno, but it does delay the whole thing11:07
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RST38hX-Fade: As long as you keep plugin the same, it should not afaik11:07
Treibholzcerts for what?11:07
RST38hStskeeps: then why not release Modest updates every month or so?11:07
Stskeepsie 'usb compliant' etc11:07
Treibholzcertified by whom?11:07
JaffaMorning, all11:08
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StskeepsRST38h: there's updates in the source tree, feel free to pick them up - the infra just doesn't exist :P11:08
RST38hTreib: USB Consortium, etc11:08
* mece tips his hat to Jaffa11:08
StskeepsRST38h: sardine was an attempt i think11:08
X-FadeI've been thinking of doing a Sardine like release based on open components.11:08
RST38hStskeeps: by the infra you mean the mechanism for building those and committing them to extras-devel?11:08
X-FadeIf/when we have an obs working.11:08
RST38hX-Fade: wOULD BE VERY, very NICE11:09
RST38h(sorry for involuntary capslock :))11:09
X-FadeRST38h: No, separate repo. Otherewise everybody can break your device ;)11:09
StskeepsRST38h: there's a bit of issue with ham domains but besides that..11:09
RST38hX-Fade: true11:09
X-FadeBut this comes at the expense of breaking regular SSU.11:09
JaffaX-Fade: hrw did such a repo for modest. Had some nice patches in which are in but might not be shipped by Nokia (i.e. making it's quoting sane for plain text emails)11:09
X-FadeSo if you want to have a new official release, you need to reflash probably.11:09
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X-FadeOr you need to be really creative with domain priorities ;)11:10
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X-FadeJaffa: Yes, I know. We could do it for a lot more components though.11:10
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X-Fadegitorious has a lot of improvemens, which could be packaged.11:12
JaffaX-Fade: Indeed.11:12
RST38hX-Fade: Why not simply reinstall that SSU package that forces other packages versions?11:13
X-FadeRST38h: Because the original SSU package then is not considered trusted again.11:13
hrw|goneRST38h: modest follows other libraries... modest used by pr1.2 require livesearch from libhildon11:13
X-FadeSo you need to change trust priorities back first.11:13
KhertanX-Fade, there is turn around to break device !11:14
hrw|goneso you need newer libtinymail, newer modest, patch them to compile with pr1.1.1 etc11:14
* hrw|gone -> out11:14
X-FadeRST38h: So switching is possible, but requires quite some work to get right.11:14
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X-FadeAnyway, what lma did with the diablo community ssu for, proves that it can work.11:15
X-FadeMy N810 now runs 5.2010.16-1 diablo ;)11:16
X-FadeAnother thing to consider is that with this Sardine like SSUs you will get incompatibility with current Extras.11:17
X-FadeSo you would need an extra Extras instance linked against the SSU libs.11:17
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X-FadeWhich is why I think we really need an obs setup for that before we try this ;)11:18
meceIs there a way to make a deb depend on a particular version of a package. Namely pyside, since the newest is not installable with pr1.1.111:18
X-Fadeapt-get install pyside=versionhere11:19
X-FadeBut get the one from extras-testing, that one should work.11:19
X-FadeJust disable -devel before installing pyside.11:19
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meceX-Fade, does the extras-testing one use qt4.6.2?11:20
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X-Fademece: afaik, yes/11:20
meceX-Fade, but it's rather particular, since the qt packages are in devel...11:20
X-FadeQt is a mess, no doubt about that.11:21
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X-FadeAfter PR1.2 release, it should get better. We had a meeting to make sure this doesn't happen again.11:21
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meceX-Fade, ok but back to the question. I want my package in extras-devel, and I want it to be installable now, without having to manually do pyside-qt4-core=0.2.3-1 pyside-qt4-gui=0.2.3-111:23
X-Fademece: forget about it ;)11:23
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meceX-Fade, so I can't make it try to use a particular version of pyside  by adding some magical version numbers and such in my control file?11:24
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X-Fademece: You can, but dependencies between repositories is just a really bad thing.11:27
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meceX-Fade, there is no pyside in extras-testing that I can see...11:29
X-FadeAh, pyside. duh.11:30
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X-FadeI was thinking about pyqt.11:30
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mecehmm so would it work with Depends: pyside-qt4-core (= 0.2.3-1) or something like that? I don't know the correct syntax11:34
alteregomece: yeah, that looks fine.11:34
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crashanddieEHLO y'all11:57
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Shapeshifterso, where do I put my stuff now that omploader is in a coma?12:01
Shapeshifteras in, I need a pastebin that takes any sort of files.12:01
Shapeshifterand nothing stupid like mediafire12:01
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chem|stI think we should split TMO in half12:02
mecechem|st, where would we split it?12:03
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chem|stmece: right in the middle and cut through all these dumb users12:03
mecechem|st :D hahaha12:03
pupnikyour definition of who is dumb is personal12:03
mecepupnik, yeah. you should use my definitions.12:04
chem|stmece: no for sure the more I am doing mod job here I think we should split userbase from develbase12:04
mecechem|st, that's true.12:04
chem|stpupnik: no I go for educated guess by valid vote12:04
pupnikthere has always been a seperate place for dev discussion12:04
mecepupnik, the mailinglists?12:05
pupnikindeed, you html-clickey-person12:05
mecepupnik, I'm on those. but I don't really like them though. the forums are much more convenient for me.12:06
pupnikthen deal with others who value convenience over cognition ;)12:06
chem|stpupnik: then developers should stop to post there devel and testing announcements12:08
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tybolltnew ovi out yet?12:09
chem|streading one post after another from people whining about being not able to do this and that because of filled /12:10
chem|sttybollt: what do you mean?12:10
tybolltI-s t-h-e n-e-w v-e-r-s-i-o-n o-f o-v-i s-u-i-t-e r-e-l-e-a-s-e-d y-e-t?12:11
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Treibholzwhat is OVI-Suite?12:12
fcrozatbeta test didn't even started for it12:12
fcrozatsince inscription are until May 11 IIRC12:12
* tybollt FACEPALM12:12
Treibholzand for what would I need it?12:12
* tybollt FACEDESK12:13
tybollt(getting sore here)12:13
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chem|sttybollt: the beta started12:13
chem|stTreibholz: at some point it is just useless without wine12:14
tybollthmm whom to believe chemist or fcrozat12:14
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Treibholzchem|st: ahh, a windows-software?12:14
chem|stTreibholz: btw thats an idea, installing it via wine may give sparkling glitters all over the place12:14
chem|stTreibholz: cant tell12:14
Treibholzchem|st: what is it for?12:14
Shapeshifter so, what was that about deb packaging being awesome again?12:15
Shapeshifterbasically I can't uninstall pyside-qt4-core12:15
Shapeshifterand it's not giving me a reason. just "error processing".12:15
pupniknever saw "Package is in a very bad inconsistent state" before12:16
pupnikcongrats, Shapeshifter12:16
chem|stovi-suite is like pc-suite but more connected to ovi (remember Club Nokia? thats going to be ovi)12:16
tybolltovi suite is next gen pc suite12:16
Treibholzchem|st: Club Nokia... I remember getting a member-card for my 5110...12:16
* timeless_mbp sighs12:16
timeless_mbplibhildon != libhildon112:17
timeless_mbplibhidlon1, libhidon1 != libhildon112:17
Shapeshifterdeb packaging is rubbish. period.12:17
chem|sttybollt: I am tester and if you have a look at tmo I had to close/delete boost all over the place because ppl not reading what they sign (NDA)12:17
timeless_mbppupnik: i used to get that all the time12:17
tybolltchem|st: timeless_mbp_ Having fun - eh?12:18
timeless_mbptybollt: typing is hard12:19
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chem|sttmo gives me timeouts12:19
chem|st~blame Reggie12:19
* infobot blames Reggie (and Canada) for all the evil in the world12:19
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Shapeshifterwell this is broken. it suggests reinstalling the package which of course also doesn't work12:21
ptl~blame PR1.212:22
* infobot blames PR1.2 (and Canada) for all the evil in the world12:22
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chem|st~trout ptl12:26
* infobot slaps ptl around a bit with a large trout!12:26
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ShapeshifterBut really, if people think apt is great and rpm is bad, how horrible must rpm be...12:28
nid0rpm's fine12:29
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timeless_mbpShapeshifter: rpm isn't bad12:30
tybolltthis is maemo, not meepoo12:30
timeless_mbpi'm sure someone's run rpm on maemo :)12:30
ShapeshifterIn any case, how do I possibly fix this. I went through a hole catalogue of things to do "when apt fails" but none of them worked.12:31
pgasrpm is more like dpkg than like apt12:31
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tybolltyum is to rpm what apt is to dpkg12:31
ShapeshifterI can't do anything anymore, really, because whatever I do it tells me pyside-qt4-core is in a very serious bad state and needs antibiotics immediately12:33
Shapeshifterand I cant reinstall it, I cant uninstall it12:33
Shapeshifterbecause it depends on stuff which is missing in the repo.12:33
timeless_mbpShapeshifter:  does dpkg -L pyside-qt4-core list stuff?12:34
timeless_mbpwhat i'd do is:12:34
RST38hOMG: Microsoft releases Symbian Communicator12:34
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timeless_mbp1. tarball backup all_files_from_that_dpkg_L12:34
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timeless_mbp2. delete all_files_from_that_dpkg_L12:35
timeless_mbp3. edit /var/lib/dpkg/status12:35
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: yes, it lists the tree to /usr/lib/pyshared/python2.5/PySide/ and to some stuff in /usr/share/12:35
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alteregoRST38h: ?12:35
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Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: thanks, I'll try that12:35
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: no warranty :)12:35
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Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: mhh, I fixed the problem by unpacking an old bunch of pyside debs I got from MohammedAG12:38
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ShapeshifterSo now stuff is okay again but I guess next time I do something with libshiboken packages or similar, breakage will be back12:39
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rmrfchikahh. troll12:56
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adeususing multiple exclamation marks is a sure sign of a diseased mind12:57
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chem|stppl now start using the report this function... now I need someone to hack it to have the report this change into a has been reported to have posts not reported 6 times12:58
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DocScrutinizer51adeus: mixing exlamation with question mark is a sign of a poorly coded bot. Authenticate to turingtest NOW!12:58
DocScrutinizeradeus: no bots allowed here. So show your're human, or get banned13:00
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: =)13:00
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DocScrutinizeradeus: waiting13:00
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer13:00
*** adeus was kicked by DocScrutinizer (User terminated!)13:00
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer13:01
Stskeepsa bot with a finnish name?13:01
DocScrutinizerno idea13:01
Stskeepsbest way to do it is by verifying it instead13:01
Stskeepsie doing "foo???"13:01
DocScrutinizerI gave him enough chance and reasoning to answer13:01
* Stskeeps passes DocScrutinizer some coffee13:02
tybolltnow now you gals...13:02
rmrfchikwhy HHGTTG cames to my mind now/13:02
* tybollt calls slartibartfast on rmrfchick13:04
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: thanks, much needed13:04
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tybolltStskeeps: I don't get any? :(13:06
tybollt(uh that came out way WAY wrong ;)13:06
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adeushey go blame Terry Pratchett :)13:07
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ccookeadeus: I do. Every day :-)13:07
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DocScrutinizer~seen javispedro13:08
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 17h 40m 20s ago, saying: 'oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it.'.13:08
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furunk3ly helo thar!13:09
pupnik_Internet Censorship Is Now “Substantially Justified” — Mises Economics Blog   "It is the speaker who must prove he has a right to speak"13:09
DocScrutinizerthat's no change :-P13:09
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phellarvHmmm - packaging ruby 1.9 for Maemo takes time13:22
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lcukfrals, resize image width "Original" isnt liked when I try to send a photo taken with camera on my provider13:24
lcukbut i didnt set it - i seem to recall filling in 320 on last test13:25
MaikBAs you all know the attitude on is very whiny.  This is annoying but acceptable, IMO.  What is not acceptable is the 4chan style wording (adult swear words and very personal attacks) that pops up all over the place.13:25
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JaffaMaikB: Agreed. Email Reggie, or maybe raise a bug ;-)13:26
MaikBThis is real problem which requires more intensive moderation13:26
lcukMaikB, i noticed this just a minute ago and was waiting until i spotted a moderator plodding around, descending from light hearted ribbing to one or two specific people out and out profanity and rudeness13:26
adeusphellarv: are you doing it or waiting someone else to do it?13:26
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fralslcuk: the fact your operator isnt liking enormous mmses is normal i guess, you sure havent fiddled with the image resize at some point to set it to original?13:27
RST38hApple-obsessed geeks launch fanboi dating site13:27
lcukfrals, after i configured it once and we went over the ux a coupe of weeks ago i had not updated package13:27
SpeedEviloriginal would be silly anyway. 2MP is the functional max of the camera13:28
Surfafrals, also many devices aren't able to receive "oversized" mms-messages13:29
fralsSurfa: yeah, either operator hates them or the receiving handset :)13:29
Surfabut ok, i don't know what's definition of original is not liked :)13:29
frals(fMMS does no such thing, it eats everything ;-))13:30
Surfawell, all modern handsets should eat too :)13:30
phellarvadeus: I'm doing it13:30
MaikBJaffa, lcuk, I started using "Report This", but I would like to know what's the position of the moderators on this issue.  Maybe a key word for this kind of posts can be established, so that the moderators can save time13:30
Surfait's more a historical problem13:30
fralslcuk: when we went over the ux it was still a numeric field, you might have put 0 there.. ill do some testing once i get home either way, cheers :)13:30
fralsSurfa: they should, but they dont seem to ;)13:30
phellarvHrmf - ruby 1.9 failed - Now trying ruby 1.813:31
lcukfrals ok - i had it set to something because ive got mmseds back and forth between missus13:31
Surfabad devices.. any nokia devices included in this?13:31
fralslcuk: oh, if its anything but 240/320/640 its gonna show up as original i think13:31
JaffaMaikB: Most of the moderators aren't here13:32
fralscan check what its set to with gconftool-2 -R /apps/fmms13:32
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lcukahhh frals13:32
lcuki reset it now, but that might be it13:32
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lcuksuppose i mightv done 512 or something13:32
MaikBJaffa, one of them is would be enough to spread the word :)13:33
JaffaMaikB: I don't think they're that interconnected13:33
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MaikBTo make my position clear: I don't think this kind of language is ill minded, it is fun (most of the time). But is just not the place for it13:34
fralslcuk: that be why then :) ill try to reproduce anyway13:34
timeless_mbpJaffa: so… i think i have a package set that will work w/ pr1.1.1 and pr1.2 :)13:34
timeless_mbpit only took a week or two13:34
* timeless_mbp can't wait to see what breaks13:35
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Of translations?13:36
lcukfrals, based on what you said, perhaps a tweak would be if(value<=240){Small}elseif(value<=320){Medium}elseif(value<=640){large}else{Original}13:36
timeless_mbpmy solution is to side by side install both sets13:36
timeless_mbpand dynamically pick the right set13:36
timeless_mbpwhich of course requires some magic to figure out which set is right13:36
lcukor similar13:37
fralslcuk: yeah.. good idea13:37
RST38hHmmm...Eero has made an interesting observation13:38
RST38hLooks like the troubles with Media Player applet may be due to OMWeather or some other applet13:38
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lcukMaikB, most seem to be from "-maemoGUY-"13:39
MaikBlcuk, yepp13:39
* RST38h only has OMWeather and the little calendar thing, so it must be one of two13:39
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* timeless_mbp still manages to screw this up13:39
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MaikBI would be surprised if a big number of ppl had be banned in order to get this issue sorted13:40
tybolltRST38h: I would not be surprised if it is that (clusterfuck) Omweather. :-)13:40
tybollt(yes I am using omweather myself :)13:40
RST38hOMWeather is pretty coool13:41
tybolltupdated it recently?13:41
tybollt-> reboot device...13:41
Arkenoirst38h: i prefer foreca, it seems more accurate and the widget is smaller13:42
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RST38hArkenoi: OMWeather has configurable widget shape, I made it vertical so that it does not take much space13:43
RST38hCan't do the same with foreca13:43
tybolltalso the scrolling omweather does when placing the weather icons... awww so cuuute :)13:44
lcuktybollt, then dont use it.  you have choices.13:44
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lcukjust dont moan about the hard work the devs do in the open community13:45
lcukinfact, better is find out why and try fix it and offer patch13:45
tybolltlcuk: That's the pi13:45
tybolltpoint :)13:45
lcukim sure vlad and wazd will be happy for the help13:45
tybolltyes lcuk, I understand that you want me to be a happy li'll fanboi, but, sorry. :-)13:46
timeless_mbpTrizt: try using .113:46
RST38hlcuk: you are overreacting13:46
timeless_mbpi think it should install13:46
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RST38hBut yes, just because an app *may* *possibly* have a problem with dbus does not mean it is garbage13:47
RST38hDiagnose, report, wait for Vlad to fix it13:48
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tybolltRST38h: Fine, I may have exagerated a little bit13:48
RST38hquick question: Where is the IMEI?13:48
meceRST38h, under the battery13:49
RST38hlooking for a location that is closer to shell13:49
tybollt*#06* <-- will show you your IMEI13:49
RST38hnot anywhere in the file system?13:49
RST38hthe damn thing is on the charger in the next room, and I am too lazy =)13:50
tybollt /proc/imei? :P13:50
meceok right err.. so.. I'm still working on this dependency issue..13:50
* Arkenoi wonders why people keep whining about java13:51
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timelesshrm, didn't kwork13:52
meceI put Depends: pyside-qt4-core (= 0.2.3-1maemo3), but it didn't work. however if I do apt-get install pyside-qt4-core=0.2.3-1maemo3 it works. So, how should the Depends line look like to get apt-get -f install to install that version?13:52
RST38hArkenoi: two groups13:52
Arkenoiit is that trivial to add, so no one made it really user friendly could simply mean just one thing: no one really cares enough13:52
tybollttimeless: kworkian?13:52
DocScrutinizeradeus: sorry mate13:52
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RST38hArkenoi: 1) java fanatics, never use java apps, just program hello world stuff with buttons13:52
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RST38hArkenoi: 2) people who want MIDP games13:53
RST38hArkenoi: Neither group has enough expertise to install or package Java13:53
adeusDocScrutinizer: servers me right for working instead of ircing!13:53
vanadismobiledoes the n900 allow to priorise an application, i.e. media player?13:53
Arkenoirst38: well, if they do care that much, why not make emulator usable? people do run opera mini successfully atm13:53
RST38hArkenoi: Because that requires skills13:53
RST38hArkenoi: While whining does not13:54
alteregovanadismobile: messing with prioritisation is a bad idea.13:54
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Arkenoivanadismobile: media player jerks because it is io bound, so tweaking cpu priority won't really help13:54
Arkenoialterego: well, until i reniced as-daemon and intellisyncd, it sucked.13:55
Arkenoiit still sucks, just less13:55
vanadismobileArkenoi, thx13:56
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: pnatd at+cgsn14:01
DocScrutinizerRST38h: = IMEI14:02
tybolltDocScrutinizer: I14:02
DocScrutinizertybollt: ?14:03
tybolltDocScrutinizer: I'm guessing about a litre of coffee or a bunch of amphetamine would work better ;)14:03
achipamece: don't do it. hard-depending on exact package versions in such cases is the wrong solution14:03
DocScrutinizertybollt: why you're insulting me?14:03
Arkenoivertsms and its phone keyboard emulator for typing SMS with 12 keys is just sick ;-)14:04
tybolltDocScrutinizer: Ehr no I was poking fun of the fact that RST wouldn't want to get out of his chair to go grab the phone :)14:04
* RST38h found it14:05
RST38hBut thanks Doc14:05
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iPeter-Hi, is it possible to flash n900 with ubuntu?14:08
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meceachipa, well it's that or nothing right now. I can upgrade once things work again.14:08
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iPeter-and if i take backup of my n900, where it does save, because id like to get that backup to my pc14:08
DocScrutinizerbtw anybody got an idea how to quit pnatd, except 'killall pnatd' or tear down the ssh?14:09
achipamece: oooor, you could save yourself a ton of trouble and just install PyQt but I guess you have some sort of grudge with it :)14:09
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Dima_Sharihinhi2all. I tried to install maemo sdk, but installer returns error. When I entered in browser i saw 404 error14:12
X-FadeDima_Sharihin: That can't be a correct url.14:13
Dima_SharihinX-Fade, oh, really? Maybe installer incorrect too?14:13
X-FadeI doubt it :)14:13
Dima_SharihinHuh. But why it can't download binary packages with wizard...14:14
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achipaX-Fade: any optification epiphanies ?14:14
X-Fadeachipa: Mailed Ed and Marius to ask if they see the problem.14:14
achipaX-Fade: thx14:14
DocScrutinizer(pnatd) is that a bug or am I too stupid to see the obvious alternative to ^C, ^D, .<CR>14:15
* RST38h has now confirmed what he always suspected: DISk ACTIVITY HANGS N90014:15
DocScrutinizereverybody sane knows14:15
iPeter-Hey. i have never flashed my n900, and now i would want to. Is it possible with ubuntu?14:15
RST38hCopying a huge file from SD card to internal card. CPU usage 0%.14:15
DocScrutinizerRST38h: nice you got a prrof though14:15
achipaDISK ACTIVITY HANGS [insert any computing platform here]14:15
DocScrutinizerproof even14:16
RST38hachipa: not really14:16
RST38hachipa: Go copy 1GB of MP3 files from one drive to another on your PC. See if the OS is responsive in the process14:16
achipaokay, LINUX based computing platform for starters ;)14:16
DocScrutinizers/DISK/SWAP and you're a winner14:16
RST38hachipa: A'ok do it in Ubuntu14:16
RST38hDoc: Well, *any* disk activity will do it seems14:16
RST38hDoc: Swap included of course14:17
achipaRST38h: kills me every time, especially on notebooks14:17
DocScrutinizerRST38h: kernel spinlocks? NO_PREEMPTIVE?? oO14:17
RST38hachipa: works for me14:17
RST38hDoc: Not sure, I am afraid this has to be addressed to Urho or someone else from Nokia14:17
RST38hwith swap I understand though14:17
meceachipa,  I couldn't get pyqt4 to work at all with qt4.6.214:18
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achipaRST38h: works as in 'doesn't influence UI responsiveness' or ?14:18
achipamece: did you try my PR1.1.1 package from the talk thread ?14:18
DocScrutinizerRST38h: we got a ionice on maemo?14:18
meceachipa, url plz?14:18
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achipaWe are currently upgrading server software. We will be back soon...14:19
meceachipa, I'm trying to get the program installable from extras-devel without having to manually install stuff, so external stuff would not really  help though.14:19
Dima_Sharihinachipa, tnx, do you know, when they will have done upgrading?14:19
achipamece: the thing is, whatever you try before PR1.2 will end up being a frankenpackage14:19
meceachipa, that's ok. one can upgrade to something proper once pr1.2 is out. All i want is for it to work right fn now ;)14:20
meceand installing pyside-qt4-core 0.2.3-1maemo3 works, so that's what I want my package to do.14:21
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: maybe you find a ionice(1) for maemo, could be handy14:21
RST38hDoc: Arkenoi was also looking for it14:22
DocScrutinizerdepending on io-scheduler it might turn out to be vastly useless though14:23
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: renicing the copying process doesn't help?14:24
achipamece: you realize that package is deprecated and the repository cleaner script can remove it any day now ?14:24
DocScrutinizerfrankenpackage - heh lovely14:25
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RST38hDoc: Well I am looking for a general solution that will cure swap lockup problems too14:25
RST38hThis particular copying thing was just a test14:25
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DocScrutinizerswap lockups are *very* hard to cure, probably impossible14:26
RST38hdecrease swappiness? decrease overal system memory footprint by killing unnecessary daemons?14:26
DocScrutinizerdepending on what's swapped out and needs a swap-in14:26
meceachipa, is it?14:27
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: sure, you can try to avoid swapping14:27
DocScrutinizerRST38h: but a swapped-out process will block for quite some time inevitably14:27
meceon a side note, Microsoft Kin One has to be the dumbest looking phone ever made!14:27
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* DocScrutinizer mumbles 'stop playing cpt, obvious, doc!"14:28
RST38hDoc: I am mostly pissed off at the overal system lockup14:28
achipamece: it is, everybody went for PR1.2 stuff and effectively deprecated their old packages14:28
RST38hDoc: Due to some process (Fennec!) hogging swap14:28
DocScrutinizerhmm, swapper daemon is kernel prio14:29
DocScrutinizerprolly that's why14:29
meceachipa, but where is the newer package then?14:29
achipamece: it's the 0.3.1-1maemo1 one14:29
DocScrutinizeractually a sane design should drop prio of swapper daemon temporaraily according to the prio of the process triggering the swap14:30
achipamece: and yes, it's broken, hello Qt package naming madness14:30
meceachipa, ah yes.. there it is.14:30
DocScrutinizerbtw that's exactly how even phone/dialer app comes to a grinding halt/freeze14:31
DocScrutinizeranybody to confirm my thoughts or stop me from telling BS, please?14:32
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andrewfblackBest thing I've seen on t.m.o in a while
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: I notice swapping issues too.14:34
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: I wonder if killing all these pre-started apps will help.14:34
X-FadeDon't mind if my clock or image viewer takes longer to start ;)14:35
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: it will no doubt free up some ram14:35
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: so swapping occurs 'later'14:35
X-FadeYeah, maybe it is enough though.14:36
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: but as soon as it starts swapping, you're running into same trouble14:36
Dima_SharihinAnd... Can we turn off swap or move it to SD flash card?14:36
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: it's never enough ram ;-)14:36
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X-FadeNo RAM is limited.14:36
DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: sure we can, at the expense of certain immanent averse effects14:37
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DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: e.g. RST38h's fennec would abort then due to ENOSPACE, rather than freezing the system by swapping14:38
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Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, oh, what is ENOSPACE?14:38
RST38hDoc: I think the sane way to approach this would be to discuss it with a few nokians14:39
DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: btw swap partition is on eMMC already14:39
RST38hDoc: konttori and ab, for example14:39
RST38hDoc: See what their take is and whether they can hint on some directions for experimentation14:39
DocScrutinizerRST38h: well, I'm a *total* noob when it comes to kernel hacking. So that's probably up to somebody else to do that14:39
Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, can we try to archieve application memory? ;)14:40
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meceachipa, ok fine I give up. So it's the same with pyqt I guess. Meaning there is no way of making a package work that depend on qt4.6.2 and a python wrapper?14:40
DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: err, WHAT?14:40
Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, try to using .Tar with applications... use less memory by archiving14:41
DocScrutinizerlol, ram-doubler14:41
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RST38hDima: Quick check: Do you have any idea what you are talking about?14:41
DocScrutinizernever seen a proper implementation14:41
Dima_SharihinRST38h, hm, do you think, that nokia n900 so slow device?14:42
Dima_SharihinMe too =)14:42
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I used mergemem back when I had a 4M laptop - worked well14:42
achipamece: no non-hacky way until the dreaded pr14:42
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I'm astounded that nobodies pushed similar into the kernel14:42
SpeedEvil(merge identical pages - copy-on-write)14:43
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DocScrutinizerthat's in recent kernel!14:43
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RST38hQuick check failed.14:43
DocScrutinizerit's called, err......14:43
SpeedEvilIIRC it's only for vms though14:43
SpeedEvilit cannot be turned on for the whole system14:43
DocScrutinizersee above ^^14:44
Dima_SharihinRST38h, naturally. I'm programmer... or student14:44
DocScrutinizer well, I'm a *total* noob when it comes to kernel hacking. So that's probably up to somebody else to do that14:44
RST38hWait you mean Maemo kernel does not have copy-on-write14:44
SpeedEvilRST38h: no14:44
SpeedEvilRST38h: mergemem did something different14:44
SpeedEvilRST38h: Start two copies of bash.14:44
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DocScrutinizerprogram text will share same mempage14:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: A sizeable fraction of the pages bash creates are identical - in the newly created copies. - though these have not been loaded from any device.14:45
DocScrutinizerthough it's virtually distinct memory14:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: If you merge these blocks into one block, you get an often sizable memory saving.14:45
RST38hof course14:46
DocScrutinizertargeted to servers running zillions of identical processes14:46
Dima_SharihinSpeedEvil, I think, in N900 programs a very few common pages =)14:47
RST38hbut afaik Unix kernels do not do merging, but they do do copy-on-write where forked process starts with the same pages as its parent14:47
DocScrutinizer(like CERN?)14:47
RST38hand only makes copies of these pages when they are written14:47
RST38hso, does Maemo do the same?14:47
SpeedEvilRST38h: yes14:47
* RST38h was kinda scared14:47
SpeedEvilRST38h: that's standard unix, and works as expected with hardware with MMU14:47
RST38hmergemem probably won't do much good in Maemo though. Too few duplicated processes.14:48
DocScrutinizer(grr, MMU. Was the reasin I wasn't able to port minix to my amiga1000 back when)14:48
DocScrutinizerreason even14:48
SpeedEvilIt's not only processes - also loaded library per-process data14:48
RST38hMaybe killing off some browserds and Modest processes would do a better job14:48
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RST38hMinix did not require MMU14:49
Dima_SharihinCan we compile own kernel using swap optimising... or it's problem of storage controller?14:49
RST38hIn fact, things like Uzix do not require MMU14:49
DocScrutinizerwe're quite off topic wrt sanitizing swapping freezes14:49
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: not quite14:49
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Merging pages can reduce memory usage - and hence swapping14:49
RST38hDoc,Speed: Well, for that you need at least two components: someone who knows how kernel works and someone from Nokia who can describe the current setup14:50
DocScrutinizerreduce - yeah. but not sanitize14:50
RST38hDoc,Speed: And I do not see either of the two present14:50
Dima_SharihinRST38h, the latter seems to be difficult14:50
Dima_Sharihin...and the first too14:50
RST38hDima: not really.14:51
SpeedEvilSome sane swap-on-flash algorithm that did linear writes only would be good14:51
RST38hSpeed: You will probably have better luck changing current kernel policies than implementing new algorithms14:51
DocScrutinizersystem freeze on swapping is a nasty effect seen on virtually all machines (at least that's my experience)14:51
SpeedEvilerr - no. Current swap algorithm doesn't know that there is a horrible penalty to writing out-of-order on flash.14:52
SpeedEvilAs in it can go down to tens of K/second when writing small blocks14:52
Dima_SharihinRST38h, and what about some kind of "laptop-mode"? Is there anything like?14:52
DocScrutinizeraiui the problem is swapper-daemon is running at high priority14:53
BCMMwhat is the approximate maemo equivalent of kteatime, i.e. a way to tell my phone to beep in three minute time?14:53
BCMM(well, N minutes)14:53
Dima_SharihinBCMM, did you try to use built-in reminder in calendat? =))14:54
SpeedEvilBCMM: sleep 180;play-sound  /usr/share/sounds/ui-wake_up_tune.wav14:54
DocScrutinizerotherwise processes that aren't blocked by cache-miss (aka swap in some mem) should run flawlessly during one nasty app causing severe swapping14:54
RST38hDoc: Ok, lowering its priority should not be difficult, right?14:54
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RST38hDoc: nice-something?14:54
BCMMDima_Sharihin: i presume that interface is more geared towards setting reminders at an absolute time14:54
DocScrutinizerBCMM: alarmed app14:55
DocScrutinizerBCMM: courtesy Shapeshifter14:55
BCMMSpeedEvil: i like the idea, but i was wondering about something a bit faster (maybe doesn't need keyboard)14:55
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i'll have a look14:55
SpeedEvilBCMM: there are a couple of stopwatch apps too14:55
Dima_SharihinBCMM, write your own bash script14:55
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BCMMDima_Sharihin: easy, but needs the keyboard to operate14:56
SpeedEvilBCMM: if you just want a set 3 minute beep - you could hook the above script to a 'queen beecon' widget14:56
SpeedEvilBCMM: press the button, and it fires the script14:56
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RST38h"Obama may get personal V-22 Osprey tiltrotor" <=== what a delightfull way to murder the acting president!14:56
BCMMok, looks like there is are a million and one such systems14:56
DocScrutinizersure, but alarmed does the job quite nicely14:56
BCMMSpeedEvil: what is queen beecon? a desktop widget to run arbitrary commands?14:56
SpeedEvil BCMM: yes14:56
SpeedEvilwith a silly name14:56
BCMMSpeedEvil: oh, i am so going to abuse SSH keys to give me desktop buttons that make various computers around the country go "beep"14:57
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DocScrutinizeralarmed alarmed alarmed alarmed alarmed alarmed alarmed14:57
BCMMthere are so very many14:58
DocScrutinizermaemo's crond14:58
Dima_SharihinBeeep! maemo programers so severe14:58
BCMMi think i will install the smallest one, then the next smallest if i don't like the interface14:58
DocScrutinizerBCMM: test alarmed!!!!14:58
Dima_SharihinBCMM, of course. On Windows you do other way?14:59
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: overkill for what i'm trying to do14:59
BCMMDima_Sharihin: what's windows?14:59
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Dima_SharihinBCMM, Microsoft© Windows®15:00
BCMMthat still exists?15:00
Dima_Sharihin=) i don't know. I'm using ubuntu 10.0415:00
BCMM(the only reason i'm having difficulty is that i really need 'eix' on my n900)15:00
achipaFatal error: Xcache not installed in [path]/includes/class_datastore.php on line 50615:01
BCMMeggtimer: 22k, crash on startup15:01
BCMMDocScrutinizer: alarmed won't install, needs newer Qt15:02
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Dima_SharihinBCMM, huh...  it happens15:02
BCMMwhen that happens, it means they've been developing it for pr1.2, right?15:02
* BCMM fights the trollish urge to ask15:03
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: please edit above posting!15:03
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: was that meant for me?15:03
DocScrutinizerBCMM: Shapeshifter: it needs a --force-all15:03
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BCMMi do not know what you are talking about15:04
DocScrutinizerBCMM: otherwise I woldn't highlight you, no?15:04
Dima_SharihinBCMM, what is PR1.2? I want why Maemo SDK can't install itself on my laptop... damn nokia =)15:04
BCMMDocScrutinizer: is that supposed to be a page of PHP errors?15:04
* BCMM fights the trollish urge to try and get Dima to ask15:04
BCMMDocScrutinizer: is a page of PHP errors for me15:04
StskeepsBCMM: they're upgradig15:04
DocScrutinizertoo bad15:04
Surfafrals, "General error, please contact the author." :)15:05
Surfaquite informative15:05
Dima_SharihinSurfa, any contacts of this "author"?15:05
Surfai think frals in the beginning of the line could clear up15:06
Surfaspeaking of fmms in this case15:06
DocScrutinizerBCMM: apt-get update; apt-get install unzip; cd /home/user/MyDocs; wget; unzip; dpkg -i pyside*.deb; apt-get -f --force-all install15:06
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: should fix the needs>=4.6.2 error for alarmed15:07
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: that link is broken btw, omploader died15:08
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ShapeshifterBCMM, DocScrutinizer : use
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: edit you post15:08
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: I already did15:09
DocScrutinizeraah, PHP-error15:09
* DocScrutinizer yawns, then sighs15:09
* DocScrutinizer then curses pr1.2 crap messup15:09
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BCMMlooks like countdown timer is about what i want - makes noises, and allows customised presets like kteatime15:09
tybolltDocScrutinizer: what messup? SDK vs fw not being released yet?15:10
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DocScrutinizertybollt: I guess yes15:10
tybolltI understand how developers must get real frustrated about that :-|15:10
andrewfblackdoesn't look like t.m.o update is going very well for Reggie instead of Update Info Page site is just down now15:11
DocScrutinizerask Shapeshifter15:11
Dima_SharihinBCMM, you made it less than an hour. Tea has colded already?15:11
Jaffaandrewfblack: And too15:11
ShapeshifterBCMM: what do you need?15:11
andrewfblackJaffa: Maybe he is rebooting Server15:11
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BCMMShapeshifter: approximately kteatime - counts down then beeps, and you can select some custom preset times15:12
BCMMi use it for cooking15:12
DocScrutinizerDeprecated: Assigning the return value of new by reference is deprecated in /home/tabtalk/public_html/forums/includes/init.php on line 10515:12
humehi.... I'm using a N900 and am not very satisfied with the media player, for playing music. Anyone got good advice about a better music player (music on device, not jamedo or other streaming stuff)?15:12
BCMMwhere are ringtones stored?15:12
BCMMcan one even access it from the open file dialog?15:12
ShapeshifterBCMM: ah. okay. well alarmed *can* do that, but much more. For a simple countdown I personally would probably use sleep ;)15:12
Dima_Sharihinhume, download mplayer15:13
DocScrutinizerBCMM: depends what you mean by 'ringtones'15:13
BCMMShapeshifter: me too, but it would be convient to have something that can be operated by fingers if one just wants to use a preset time15:13
BCMMDocScrutinizer: for example, the default sound that happens when you get a phone call15:13
ShapeshifterBCMM: wasn't there a tea timer in the repos...15:13
BCMMoh found it15:14
Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, ringtone - is a small mp3 playing on ring or alarm =) Capitan Obvious15:14
DocScrutinizerthe file actually used is in some ~user/.local/ringtones15:14
DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: :x15:14
DocScrutinizerBCMM: it's copied there and transcoded when you select a ringtone15:15
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: then there's the default for searching ringtones: ~/MyDocs/.sounds/Ringtones15:16
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BCMMi'll certainly have a look at alarmed when 1.2 comes out, but it seems that countdown timer does exactly what i wanted and nothing else15:17
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: and of course you can select any arbitrary file for new ringtone, as long as it's a wellknown audio format and somewhere in MyDocs or /media/card15:17
Veggenhmm. Anyone know of a location-based alarm?15:18
DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: any further questions/remarks??15:18
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Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, no, thanks15:18
Veggen<----would like to be woke up 500 meter before bus arrives at my home/work-stop. I'm rather good at falling asleep, especially if there's a traffic jam so the bus is slow.15:18
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fralsScelt: what does the log say?15:19
fralsScelt: it's a catch-all error handler when sending fails15:19
SceltScelt: what? where? when?15:20
Sceltfrals: what? where? when?15:20
fralsops sorry, wrong nick completion :D15:20
fralsSurfa: what does the log say?15:20
fralsSurfa: it's a catch-all error handler when sending fails15:20
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DocScrutinizerVeggen: no, but it surely is a highly needed app15:20
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X-Fadeachipa: I think I have found the issue.15:21
PerfDaveVeggen: That seems like an easy hack. Input co-ordinates of bus stops, use GPS to track whether you're moving towards it, and whehter you've just got within 500m.15:21
achipaX-Fade: tell me doctor, what are it's chances ?15:21
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VeggenDocScrutinizer: I have numerous times woke up 20 meters beyond my bus stop on my way home. Which is, sort of, a disaster, because I then enter a tunnel and end up at bus-distance instead of walking-distance from home. *grmf*15:22
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X-Fadeachipa: Marius seems to have hacked dpkg-buildpackage in the debian-etch devkit to run optify.15:22
X-Fadeachipa: Which is obviously not in the squeeze devkit.15:22
X-Fadeachipa: So I'll try to extract the dpkg-buildpackage changes from etch and put them in the squeeze one.15:23
achipaaha... had this hunch the devkit change might be involved somehow15:23
achipaX-Fade: will we need a rebuild of select packages ? or ?15:23
X-Fadeachipa: Annoyed :)15:24
Sceltfrals: :]15:24
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achipaX-Fade: can you scan quickly how many packages are affected ? (I guess every package that used debian/optify and has been uploaded after the change)15:25
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X-Fadeachipa: No not easily.15:25
X-FadeAnyway, will cost yet another work day.15:26
Surfafrals, i didn't check the logfile yet (as i couldn't quickly enough find it) but it was somehow related that fmms wasn't able to open connection in rude mode once earlier enabled wlan connection didn't get up after first sending15:26
Surfafrals, after reconnecting wlan manually it works again15:26
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Surfafrals, ..and i can't get it reproduced anymore.. :)15:26
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fralsSurfa: unless you rebooted device or sent/recv quite a few messages the error should still be in the log at /tmp/fmms.log :)15:27
Surfaok, let me check it15:27
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: any chances tmo will recover soonish?15:28
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Ask reggie15:28
achipaX-Fade: when exactly did the squeeze devkit start ?15:28
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: how?15:28
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X-Fadeachipa: Around April 16th or so?15:28
Surfafrals, any catch to look for in the logfile?15:28
fralsuh, which section should i specify if i dont want my app to be visible in HAM?15:28
fralsSurfa: err, sec15:29
achipaX-Fade: and if I give you a list of packages, can you feed them quickly through the autobuilder ? I think I can filter the affected packages quickly via appwatch15:29
Stskeepsfrals: if going by how stupid ovi store does it, user/hidden15:29
fralsshould say "Failed to send message." somewhere15:29
achipaX-Fade: (quickly=without wasting a day on it)15:29
X-Fadeachipa: It is not that, replacing is a pain in debian repos.15:29
X-Fadeachipa: Basically not supported.15:29
fralsStskeeps: >_<15:29
achipaX-Fade: I see... okay, so I come up with a list and send a notify to affected package maintainers ?15:30
X-FadeLet me see if I can fix it first.15:30
DocScrutinizerhah, IT'S FIXED :-D15:30
achipaX-Fade: ok15:30
DocScrutinizer(tmo that is)15:30
achipaDocScrutinizer: the world is back to normal ! :D15:30
TermanaSince when was tmo NORMAL? :P15:31
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Surfafrals, last failure that popped to me was "IAP doesn't exist anymore" which sound related..15:32
fralsSurfa: could you mail me the log to so i can take a look?15:33
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Surfaof course15:33
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X-FadeOh crap.15:35
X-Fadedpkg-buildpackage was a shell script in debian-etch and is a perl script in debian-squeeze.15:35
TermanaX-Fade, and you removed perl? :P15:36
X-Fadenot really :)15:36
fralssounds like someone got a fun evening coming up15:36
X-FadeNow i need to awake my rusty perl skills, ugh.15:36
achipacall upon Jeremiah, he's the perl monk in the team, right ? :)15:37
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X-Fadeachipa: Are you able to submit a test app?15:51
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achipaX-Fade: sure am, just a sec...15:54
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X-Fadeachipa: I hope my foo was good enough ;)15:54
achipahang on, just to wait for my EC2 noe to boot up15:55
infobotachipa meant: hang on, just to wait for my EC2 node to boot up15:55
meceerr.. architecture.. is it any or all?15:56
X-Fademece: depends on what you want.15:56
X-Fademece: if it is a script, like python, then all.15:56
meceok good.15:56
X-FadeIf you want to build it for every arch, then any.15:56
X-FadeBut that is for real binaries.15:57
Khertanbe carreful of any and all ... as if you are using the dh_supportpython wich do a bitecode compilation you ll got some problem if python aren't the same on all arch15:59
X-Fadeachipa: Seems to be called tere again.15:59
Khertanthe same / the same version15:59
achipaX-Fade: aye. EC2 is acting up, so it will be a couple more minutes until I submit abiword et al16:00
MohammadAGFacebook widget updated, hints at something imo16:03
DocScrutinizeris it normal to have >350 pics loaded on a tmo-thread page, or is there something fishy with somehow recursively opening a subframe that points back to an upper frame, while loading the last few pictures?16:03
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Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, try reloading the page16:04
DocScrutinizeranyway tmo is thoroughly borked since at least 18h16:04
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jacekowski1800 GMT?16:05
DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: each time I do (and sometimes I have to do often as it stalls eventually), I get even more pictures loaded and then it stalls again on the allegedly last 1..316:05
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: since eighteen hours != since 18:00 GMT16:06
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Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, Maybe you have very "special" css?16:07
DocScrutinizerno, for sure not16:07
Dima_Sharihinjacekowski, 1800 - GMT+5 ?16:07
Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, I have not touched a n900 =)16:08
DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: huh? so what?16:09
DocScrutinizerthis isn't N900 related16:09
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Khertanjacekowski, 18th day of the year :)16:14
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achipaX-Fade: sending the packages, but is s-l-o-w... doing just about 15K/s16:22
X-Fadeachipa: Weird.16:23
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achipaI'm uploading from EC2, so it's as fat a pipe on my side as it gets16:23
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jacekowskiachipa: well, i was uploading from my server in france16:25
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jacekowskiachipa: and i had no problems sending full 100Mbits16:25
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achipajacekowski: it's the same speed from my home ADSL and EC2, so it seems like being bw-limited somewhere16:26
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DocScrutinizertmo is laggy like geotectonics, so if is same server domain...16:27
DocScrutinizeror on same backbone, or whatever16:28
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Not even the same continent.16:28
mgedminso it must be volcanic ash that's interfering with internet connectivity?16:28
auenftheres still a chance that my PR1.2 pre-installed device comes before the upgrade is released?16:29
DocScrutinizerbad internet weather16:29
DocScrutinizerauenf: you bought in HK?16:29
DocScrutinizerso why you'd assume it comes with 1.2 preinstalled?16:30
auenfcause of bug 705416:30
povbot`Bug Cannot set "Regional Settings" to "English (Australia)" or "English (New Zealand)"16:30
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X-Fadeachipa: Sorry, was just changing something :(16:32
achipaX-Fade: do you need me to re-upload ?16:33
X-FadeI can resubmit.16:33
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pupnikif i ever go to greece, i am STEALING whatever i can16:34
X-FadeI know I don't have to pay for a meal in the greek restaurant anymore ;)16:35
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tybolltand here I thought Italy was the moraly corrupt country... apparently 1/3 of the entire greek economy is black labour :):)16:37
X-Fadeachipa: Crap, missing semi colon ;)16:37
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achipatybollt: 1/3 ? You optimist !16:38
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fralsbah, paint on my ctrl/sym key has started to come off :((16:39
achipaX-Fade: \o/16:39
X-Fadeachipa: Seems to have done it.16:39
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achipaX-Fade: resumbitted abiword, too16:40
barisioneandre__: does 6859 happen on pr1.1 or what to you using icq?16:41
achipabtw speed just returned to normal, this upload went through with 20+Mb/s16:41
andre__barisione, had that on a recent pr1.2 build16:41
barisioneandre__: I think that the underlying issue for the ICQ case and the jabber case could be different16:42
andre__I think the same16:42
barisioneI will test later (or tomorrow?)16:42
tybolltfrals: If you're shoping for spares - let me know (I need a new screen :-| )16:42
andre__barisione, cool. very welcome16:42
fralstybollt: >_<16:42
X-Fadeachipa: Here is the ugly dpkg-buildpackage patch:
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achipaX-Fade: you call that ugly ? You have clearly not seen enough perl code XD16:46
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MohammadAG_tmo down?16:50
meceMohammadAG, as usual...16:50
MohammadAG_nvm, it's down16:50
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DocScrutinizerfrals: (paint) WTF? :-016:54
fralserr, paint/plastic/whatever is on they keys :P16:55
infobotfrals meant: err, paint/plastic/whatever is on the keys :P16:55
DocScrutinizerwhatever, nasty16:55
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fralsyes :)16:55
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DocScrutinizerfrals: is that the black parts coming off, the white, or just the blue?16:56
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fralsthe black came off in a dot in the middle16:56
fralsgonna take a picture in a minute once i fixed this bug16:56
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DocScrutinizeranyway opens an opportunity to relabel kbd for e.g hebrew etc16:57
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DocScrutinizerhot fix: black edding, then seal with a scotchtape patch16:59
DocScrutinizerno idea what's uded outside EU16:59
DocScrutinizerused even16:59
tybolltfrals: ouch17:00
tybollthow'd that happen?17:00
fralstybollt: no idea... using the keyboard? :\17:01
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tybolltthe keyboard coating comes off after less than half a year of wear n tear?17:01
tybolltthat's incredibly poor quality :(17:01
frals~nuke talk.maemo.org17:02
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at ... B☢☢M!17:02
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tybolltfrals: if you go on TMO... I mean... you know what you gonna get - why do you go there? ;)17:03
* Dima_Sharihin not sure, that infobot is bot =)17:03
fralstybollt: im clicking links :(17:04
alteregofrals: was that inflicted damage by some object or wear-and-tear?17:04
fralsalterego: wear and tear afaik, not used any object on my keyboard17:04
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fralsi just noticed it so not sure when it happend17:04
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alteregofrals: I would have thought it would have been pretty obvious, so it must have been recent :(17:05
DocScrutinizerfrals: compare
alteregoI dropped mine at the train station, has a nice graze on the top-left corner.17:05
fralsyeah its really obvious so cant have had it for long17:05
alteregoThough, it kind of makes it look more rugged ;)17:05
fralsDocScrutinizer: hehe17:06
alteregoIt looks suspiciously like it's from the slide though :(17:06
kamuiwhats up with the Ogles dep in pr 1.217:06
Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, how old this keyboard?17:06
kamuianyone fixed that yet17:06
kamuiI really want descent :-D17:06
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DocScrutinizerheavy use for ~one year17:06
DocScrutinizerwhen that pic was taken17:06
alteregokamui: PR1.2 isn't out yet, how do you know there's an issue with ogles dep?17:07
alteregoDocScrutinizer: my N810 has comparable wear :)17:07
alteregoYou should see my laptop keyboard ..17:07
X-FadeYes, there is an ogles dep issue. Will be fixed once PR1.2 is released as it lives in the nokia-apps repo.17:08
rangeThere are only two Lapdogs where I haven't worn out the "n" key from reading usenet and mails: My T40 and my MacBook. :)17:08
X-FadeAnd that repo will be updated at the same time as the release of course.17:08
rangeAnd with the MacBook it is beginning.17:08
kamuiX-Fade, so Im just SOL on ogles depending games for the time being?17:08
Dima_Sharihinalterego, we don't want to see  nightmares =)17:08
kamuiI have a lot of trouble with packaging17:09
kamuiso there isn't shit I can do to fill the dep17:09
X-Fadekamui: I have had that issue for months now ;)17:09
kamuiI just got that issue, and its ironic, as I JUST decided to try the opengl descent port17:09
DocScrutinizerfrals: anyway, replacing the keycaps mat is rather easy17:09
kamuiafter months of having but no playing other opengles games17:09
kamuioh well, I can wait, 1.2 is pretty damn suite otherwise.  Much much faster than 1.1.1 was for me17:10
alteregoThe most worn on mine is the 's' key17:10
alteregoWhich stands to reason as it is the most common letter in the English language :)17:11
E0xi dont see the big deals with 1.2 , almost all thing that 1.1 have wrong the comunity have a workaround17:11
E0xto it17:11
Dima_Sharihinalterego, in russian "Ы"(S in qwerty) too =))))17:11
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alteregoE0x: the big deal about PR1.2 is Qt 4.6, out-of-the-box. But no, I don't understand the histeria people are having about it. It's rather non-sensical.17:11
kamuiE0x, certainly don't see that as a good or bad thing17:11
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DocScrutinizeralterego: mine as well only seen english input all the time... still 'e' is most worn17:12
kamuibut having a workaround for a busted car doesn't make having a properly working car any less exciting17:12
alteregoEspecially as the big things that people want, portrait mode, will not arrive with PR1.2, it's not the second coming of Jesus ffs.17:12
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DocScrutinizeralterego: plus space and enter17:12
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alteregoMy alt key is more warn than my enter key ;)17:12
E0xalterego: hehe exaclty17:12
Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, Shift! but not Caps Lock =)17:13
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alteregoI think a lot of people expect more from PR1.2 in the way of it being a sign that Nokia aren't dropping the N900 already.17:13
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alteregoWhich I wouldn't even care about. The N900, right now, is amazing.17:14
E0xjust need more dev for do more "cool" things17:14
E0xbut for me is already fine17:14
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alteregoI have more issue with the bugs on my ubuntu 9.10 system than on my maemo 1.1.1 system :)17:15
alteregoI just want Qt 4.6! :D17:15
E0xi am waiting for the qt thing too17:16
E0xi will try do my first app in qt/python17:16
alteregoI'm gonna manually install Qt tonight anyway from the devel repo.17:16
alteregoAs now I'm at the stage when Ireally need to work on the N900 interface code of my application.17:16
alteregoAs all the back end stuff is pretty much complete.17:16
E0xi want do a offline buxfer app that can sync with your account when is online17:16
E0xfor save money of my 3g data plan17:17
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (scary FPC B2Bconnector on N900) see there: ff - no issue back when17:18
DocScrutinizerprobably I really got a lemmon that just incidentally failed when I disassembled it17:19
Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, is it LVDS connector from notebooks?17:19
DocScrutinizerthat's N81017:19
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Dima_SharihinOh, right. Sorry =)17:20
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X-Fadeachipa: I don't see abiword, did you submit it yet?17:20
DocScrutinizerprobably you'd like that link better
achipaX-Fade: yep...17:20
fabinaderDoes anybody knows how to open two instances of X Terminal on N900?17:20
achipaa good while ago...17:20
fabinaderIt seems N900 disables me doing that...17:21
DocScrutinizerfabinader: menu of xtern ->new17:21
alteregoDocScrutinizer: is the ovi photo sharing service good?17:21
fabinaderOps :p17:21
alteregoAt the moment I use facebook ...17:21
DocScrutinizeralterego: PITA17:21
X-Fadeachipa: Tarball size doesn't match .dsc17:21
achipaX-Fade: no mail from the autobuilder yet, though17:21
alteregoI'd like one that I can upload things to and share them with friends privately, or make them publically available.17:22
achipaX-Fade: 2maemo2 ?17:22
X-Fadeachipa: 8758975 vs 852274817:22
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lcukalterego, privacy on the internet?17:23
alteregolcuk: is it that ridiculous? :D17:23
X-Fadeachipa: ah no, missing abiword_2.8.1-2maemo2.dsc17:23
achipaX-Fade: duh, wrong dsc file17:23
lcukalterego, sure it is17:24
achipaX-Fade: yep, resubmitted17:24
X-Fadeachipa: Ok, that will help ;)17:24
alteregoSorry, wrong channel :P17:24
Dima_Sharihinhm, facebook... =)17:25
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fragmentalterego: have you tried flickr?17:25
Dima_Sharihinalterego, or google picasa17:26
DocScrutinizeralterego: ovi supports that17:26
alteregoI'm kind of against google services at the moment ;)17:26
tybolltam I the only nerd that did not get FACEPALMbook?17:26
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Dima_Sharihintybollt, no, i'm not registered on facebook too =)17:27
BCMMi hate facebook :(17:27
Dima_Sharihinlol =) i'm using =(((17:28
DocScrutinizeralterego: you can have several albums and set visibility/perms for each of them. And you can select which album to upload pictures to from N90017:28
BCMMsadly, i know people that organise things that are fun, who can't seem to understand email17:28
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DocScrutinizerstill it's a pita as creating a *new* album need 30min twiddling via html17:29
DocScrutinizeronce that's accomplished, you can upload photos directly, via share button in cam-app / image viewer17:30
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DocScrutinizerthen you only need to find out about the correct URL to share the album :-P17:32
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Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, how fast your internet connection? can уou upload photos direct from camera for a few seconds?17:32
* Dima_Sharihin crying. 384kbps ADSL is slow...very slow17:33
alteregoThe facebook share service plugin is pretty good.17:34
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alteregoThough you can't create new categories using the share service plugins which is a pain.17:34
DocScrutinizerDima_Sharihin: see
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Dima_SharihinDocScrutinizer, it's your webcam?17:37
DocScrutinizeryou're kidding? my N900 :
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Dima_Sharihin=] huh... Where I can get 1000$ to buy N900 too? :D17:39
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tybolltnice little dance there timeless_mbp...17:40
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timeless_mbptybollt: dance which way?17:46
tybolltjoin quit join :)17:47
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Mecedo a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight!17:49
MohammadAG__TypeError: parent should be a GtkWindow or None <--- grr17:49
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Mecewhat's with the joining spree?17:51
nid0netsplits happen17:52
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d14christmas \o/17:52
frals~bomb talk.maemo.org17:52
* infobot drops a humongous exploding nuke on talk.maemo.org17:52
fralsfuckin hell its slow17:52
X-Fadeachipa: abiword: optified 112 entries, saving about 12942 kB.17:52
achipaX-Fade: yeah, seen it, seems to work !17:53
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X-Fadeachipa: ok, so now what to do :)17:53
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achipaX-Fade: sooo... how's that next-gen package promotion/demotion/removal interface going ? :)17:54
X-Fadeachipa: Things like this kill progress.17:55
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achipaX-Fade: I know :(17:56
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achipaX-Fade: BTW Do you want to post a note to maemo-dev about this being fixed or should I do it ?17:57
achipaX-Fade: so we avoid people inadvertently promoting unoptified packages to testing...17:57
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n900-dkfrals: wee, we got 'reply via SMS' now - thumbs up! :)17:58
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dymaxionhey there... is there anyway to use my N900 as a bluetooth headset/mic    my laptop mic doesn't work with Fedora, and I left my normal bluetooth headset back home (away for 2 weeks)18:00
dymaxionthis is the closest I found on the forums but no solution
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BCMMattache an FM radio to your laptop's line in18:03
* BCMM ducks18:03
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SpeedEvilcan someone paste the output of grep -r dsme.*mce /etc/event.d/mce18:04
SpeedEvilI think I may have screwed with mine - and I want to edit the wiki based on reality.18:04
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markinfoi am new to nokia n810. Where are files that are shown in File Manager - Audio Clips, Documents etc.   they are not at /home/user.18:05
BCMMmarkinfo: /home/user/MyDocs18:05
BCMMbut the directories have different names from the ones shown18:06
BCMMlike .sounds for Audio18:06
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BCMM^Audio Clips rather18:06
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markinfohm - these are hidden directories - like .documents - why?18:07
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BCMM_i have no idea, actually18:09
markinfoI have flashed last os2008 to n810 - but there is in Application only few programms - Do i need some repositories?   For example there is no Pidgin.18:09
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markinfoto add some repositories18:09
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SpeedEvilBCMM_: thanks18:10
BCMM_windows bloody xp...18:10
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markinfohow can be decompressed zip file? There is no unzip.18:12
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BCMM_"not charging. insufficient power"18:13
BCMM_works fine on same usb port of same computer when running linux18:13
BCMM_you can install unzip18:13
nid0get the nokia connectivity driver installed18:14
BCMM_well, you can on n900 and i guess they work the same18:14
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BCMM_nid0 or just MSC mode18:14
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nid0one or the other18:14
markinfoHow can be installed e.g this :   it is not able to find it from "Application Manager"18:15
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markinfomaybe just oer browser  i will try it.18:16
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BCMM_markinfo: it is in extras-devel18:18
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markinfoBCMM_,  is it necessary to add repositories?18:19
markinfo"extras-devel"  - in application Manager?   nothing like this here.18:20
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markinfoech - I tried it from web - an it says "Catalogue already installed but disabled. Enable Now? maemo extras"18:23
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markinfonow i Have many Programs for choose.18:26
Shapeshiftermarkinfo: unzip is not listed in ham. just do apt-get install unzip as root to install it18:27
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cowbotanybody have a mlocate/slocate built for n900?18:27
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Shapeshiftercowbot: afaik youd need to rebuild the kernel for those18:29
markinfoShapeshifter, "su" applet requires root privileges, "sudo apt-get"  ask for password. What is the password?18:29
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cowbotShapeshifter: can you give me a hint why?18:30
Dima_Sharihinmarkinfo, password of sudoer18:30
Shapeshiftermarkinfo: install rootsh, use sudo gainroot to gain root, then continue as above18:30
Dima_Sharihinby the default, it is you =)18:31
Shapeshiftercowbot: mlocate, iirc, uses a kernel module to monitor file changes or something18:31
sECuREShapeshifter: no18:33
sECuREShapeshifter: mlocate uses the mtime of folders to determine what needs to be scanned18:33
sECuREwhich makes it skip large parts of your filesystem tree18:33
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Shapeshifterthen it was slocate18:34
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sECuREno, i don’t think so either18:34
sECuREslocate also seems to be deprecated18:34
sECuREcan’t find it in debian >= etch18:34
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luke-jrsECuRE: slocate is deprecated by what?18:36
sECuREluke-jr: mlocate18:37
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markinfoI am trying to connect to the Wlan with WPA2 - EAP type:TTLS, EAP MSCHAPv2. Authentizations fails always. Could it be caused due to missing certificate?  There is option "Select Certificate" but inside is "None" an there is nothing more to choose.18:42
markinfonokia n810, os200818:42
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TreibholzKhertan: mtodos depends on python-sqlite, is that really necessary? Do you really use sqlite2?18:46
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Khertandepends ...18:47
Khertanwhich version ?18:47
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TreibholzKhertan: Version: 0.2.2-118:47
Khertanhum ... diablo18:47
Khertanso yes18:47
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Khertanwhy ?18:47
Khertanhum ... from what i remember the fremantle version didn't use sqlite18:48
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KhertanTreibholz, yep surely a mistake18:50
Khertanlet me look at the source :)18:50
frals11 thumbs up... 9 days left on quarantine :(18:50
Treibholzfrals: ?18:51
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fralsextras QA18:51
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KhertanTreibholz, it s a mistake ... mtodos 0.2.2 didn't use sqlite18:52
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mtnbkrfrals: Hi frals... I just installed the fMMS and when attempting to send an image, after "resizing" I get an error  "Sending Failed: General error, please contact the author"   where do I begin troubleshooting to get you some useful info to go on ?18:54
fralsmtnbkr: /tmp/fmms.log is the log, email it to me at or put it somewhere i can dl it :)18:54
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mtnbkrfrals: OK...Will do.  Going through this right now to make sure I did things correctly:
Treibholzhmm, how do I force apt to install it anyway?18:56
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Dima_SharihinTreibholz, --force-all ?18:58
TreibholzDima_Sharihin: then I have to download the deb manually...19:00
phellarvDima_Sharihin: That's not very smart19:01
Dima_Sharihinphellarv, but how do it other way?19:01
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phellarvDima_Sharihin: Don't19:01
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phellarvDo it19:01
Dima_Sharihinyes, of course =)19:02
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KhertanTreibholz, it s a soft available in extras devel19:02
Khertanit s not finished19:02
Khertanand currently not in active developpment19:02
achipais it just me or is this Atom Z6xx announcement ridiculous ?19:02
Khertanachipa, a new atom ?19:03
achipaKhertan: yeah, Moorestown19:03
ccookeachipa: How so? (not seen the announcement itself, yet)19:03
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achipathis is like the washing poweder commercials on TV19:04
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achipathe 'other' or 'conventional' washing powder always sucks19:05
achipabut they never say which one exactly is that19:05
SpeedEvilalso - the unlabelled axes19:06
Khertandrain 10x less battery than atom19:06
Khertanyep ... but which atom :)19:06
Khertanthe first one :)19:06
Khertana 2ghz19:06
SpeedEvilIt would have been moderately simple to - for example - pick platforms with poor JIT implemenations19:06
achipaalso, says 5 hours of browsing time... but at what battery capacity, screen size ?19:06
Khertancomparing webkit and ie :)19:07
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achipaI mean, my desktop can browse for 5 hours on batteries... if they're big enough19:07
Khertanmine can do it during 6 hours19:07
SpeedEvilI can browse for 5 hours on the n900 right now19:07
Khertanusing wifi19:07
SpeedEvilmaybe more like 1019:07
SpeedEviladmittedly - using lynx, with the screen almost off19:07
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Khertanand i think i can more ... but never try :)19:08
Khertanand it s a samsung n130 with ubuntu using firefox without flash19:08
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Khertanso a small atom :)19:08
TreibholzKhertan: I was just looking for a todo-list and found your name there :-)19:09
Khertananyway it ll works19:09
Khertanjust the search19:09
Khertandidn't work19:09
achipaplus, they conveniently treat MeeGo as a Moblin variant19:09
Khertanand the sync not ready yet19:09
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markinfowhat is with Mer Project? is it worth to test it on n810? Or it will be replaced with Meego?19:10
Khertanachipa, this is what meego is19:10
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TreibholzKhertan: I didn't expect a sync :-)19:10
KhertanTreibholz, i think you download the deb and do dpkg -i on it19:10
KhertanTreibholz, i think you can download the deb and do dpkg -i on it19:10
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TreibholzKhertan: yes, I just did19:10
fralsw t f19:10
Khertanbut at the time i ve uploaded it ... the python-sqlite was available19:11
fralsso when im logged in and browse
achipaKhertan: what is surprising how quickly the Maemo brand was ditched, and yet here we are, Intel still calling stuff Moblin19:11
fralsi dont see "package imported", however if i logout i see it19:11
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Khertanfrals, haha yes ... it s full of bugs19:11
fralslogging in again i see latest action "Build succeeded"19:12
* microlith boggles as his 2.5G connection musters up 14K/s19:12
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, !19:12
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Treibholzdamn, I could need cron....19:16
achipawow. cool. You go on talking how you are cooler than ARM as you can decode 30fps 1080p... but in the end it turns out your video card only output 1366x76819:16
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achipamax camera limit = 5 mpix, cool, that one's obsolete right out the door...19:17
* Treibholz would have bought his n900 without camera, if possible (and smaller)19:18
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* kamui wants a bigger screened n90019:18
* kamui can't fathom why this wasn't a 4.5" device19:18
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PerfDavekamui: Like an iPad with a real OS?19:18
nid0because then it'd be a brick that would snap people's legs off19:19
Treibholzwell, the n900 is an expensive beta test...19:19
achipaPerfDave: 4.5" iPad ?19:19
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achipaokay, so this Moorestown thing is a disaster... the only ones who will be hapy with this is the UMPC crowd... all others, wait for Medfield19:20
tripzeroachipa ?19:21
humehi...I'm having problems with syncing my N900 with Google cal - it used to work but does not any more. Anyone around that can give advice on what to check or try?19:21
Treibholzwhy would anyone want an x86-CPU?19:21
achipaTreibholz: that's what I said, too19:21
PerfDaveTreibholz: Because most software is written for i386 or amd64 CPUs?19:21
RST38hDisaster? What disaster?19:21
tripzerocuz their fast?19:21
TreibholzPerfDave: just recompile it!19:21
achipaPerfDave: and you couldn't run that software on asuch a small screen anyway19:21
SpeedEvilx86 are not fast per watt19:22
Treibholzif it doesn't compile: fix the code.19:22
PerfDaveTreibholz: Not all software is free, sadly ;)19:22
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tripzerox86 is getting there (performance/watt).19:22
TreibholzPerfDave: which non-free software would you like?19:23
evilrobso has anyone found a time-based or location based profile manager for maemo?19:23
evilrobI'm contemplating putting one together19:23
PerfDaveTreibholz: Personally? Not much. For mobile computing devices like the N900, getting Flash seems like big argument in favour of going x86 for a manufacturer.19:23
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TreibholzPerfDave: a) flash is a disease b) there is flash on the n900...19:24
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achipatripzero: where ? this just-announced SoC is already inferior power-wise to almost any high-end next-gen ARM SoCs which are not announced, but almost shipping19:24
PerfDaveTreibholz: I'll agree with (a), didn't know about (b) - I thought Adobe only made it for i386 and amd64.19:24
SpeedEvilAt best a mobile CPU will be a tenth of the speed of a desktop CPU19:24
Dima_SharihinTreibholz, c) There is a pair of white LEDs. Nothing more ;)19:24
SpeedEvilThis makes flash rather slower than you might see on the desktop19:25
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PerfDaveAnd given that Flash on the desktop is already dog-slow... ;)19:25
luke-jrSpeedEvil: not so19:25
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tripzerothat atom z5xx is 5w19:25
tripzeroanyone know what the n900 tdp is?19:25
SpeedEvilluke-jr: I'm not talking about cock speed alone.  But slower memory, lack of multicores, ...19:25
luke-jrSpeedEvil: some of the Snapdragons are faster than my desktop speed19:26
Treibholzcock speed?19:26
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Ok. A modern desktop19:26
luke-jr1. not all desktops have multicores19:26
SpeedEvilclock peed.19:26
luke-jr2. some embedded SoCs have multicores19:26
SpeedEvilclock speed19:26
fralsmission karmawhore successful, 2:1 thanks:posts ratio \o/19:26
SpeedEvilluke-jr: By multicore, I mean in general - huge branch predictors, ...19:26
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RST38htripzero: 3.5 hours at 1320mAh at 3.7V19:27
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: massive l1/l2 caches, ...19:27
RST38htripzero: that is TOP figure, mind you19:27
tripzeroRST38h, need TDP19:27
tripzeroi bet it's around 3-5W at full force19:27
* MohammadAG__ removes his thanks from frals's posts19:27
luke-jrSpeedEvil: I bet the Snapdragon 8X72 line can outperform my desktop CPU19:27
* frals slaps MohammadAG__ around a bit with a large trout19:27
RST38htripzero: TDP is an Intel invention afaik19:28
RST38hMakes no sense for OMAP19:28
tripzeroluke-jr, you must have a slow desktop19:28
SpeedEvilRST38h: sure it does.19:28
luke-jrtripzero: Athlon64 3200+19:28
luke-jrworks fine19:28
ml-mobileooh, 5 years old19:28
SpeedEvilRST38h: You still need a thermal design power to design your heatsinking solution with19:28
RST38hwell, can you run OMAP hard enough that it starts overheating?19:28
luke-jrsystem only gets slow when I swap like mad :)19:28
tripzeroluke-jr, which snapdragon are you comparing it to?19:28
Treibholzflash is a pain on my netbook, too19:28
* ml-mobile retired his A64 3200 a year ago19:28
luke-jrtripzero: 8X7219:28
luke-jrtripzero: dual-core 1.5 GHz19:29
Treibholzyoutube is impossible to watch in HTML419:29
achipaRST38h: TDP doesn't make sense for Intel chips either19:29
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tripzeroluke-jr, i'm willing to bet that while it may "feel" faster in some things, you'll find benchmarks showing otherwise19:29
SpeedEvilTDP - as a user-exposed measurement probably does not make sense19:29
Arkenoiseems that youtube assholes are degrading player performance every a few months19:29
Arkenoidon't know why the hell they do that19:30
TreibholzArkenoi: use HTML519:30
tripzerohow many watts does it consume.19:30
luke-jrtripzero: 2x 1.5 GHz ARM compared to 1x 2.2 GHz x86_64?19:30
achipaSpeedEvil: I mean, people use it compare CPU power draw - and it says nothing about that, really19:30
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luke-jrtripzero: why *wouldn't* the Snapdragon win?19:30
tripzeroluke-jr, slower clock, not as many instructions, etc19:30
luke-jrtripzero: you're assuming a single thread19:31
SpeedEvilachipa: yes. I agree - as a user you shouldn't generally need to care about TDP - but some sort of application benchmark19:31
Arkenoithe first generation youtube player ran quite happily on 350MHz pIII19:31
luke-jralso, last I checked, 1 GHz *anything* was faster than 1 GHz x8619:31
tripzerothe actual frequency of cpu's means little19:31
SpeedEvilluke-jr: memory and cache size is _IMORTANT_19:31
achipatripzero: are you aware that clock has no real connection to number of instructions, plus that ARM instructions are not the same as X86 instructions ?19:32
Dima_SharihinSpeedEvil, also architecture is important too... x86 is a.....19:32
SpeedEvilluke-jr: mobile CPUs typically have significantly constrained memory bus and tiny caches19:32
tripzeroachipa, i think that's exactly what I'm saying19:32
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PerfDaveYou can find benchmarks to say just about anything you want to say ;)19:33
SpeedEvilDima_Sharihin: Sure. But x86 often have stupidly long predictors, which can mitigate that19:34
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RST38hachipa: TDP makes perfect sense for Intel chips19:38
RST38hachipa: Shows ou how far you can overclock them =)19:38
tripzero"[ARM  offer similar performance to the low end Atom chipsets[dubious – discuss] but at roughly one quarter the power consumption..."19:38
achipaRST38h: hehe :) the point is TDP talks about dissipating the generated heat, not about how that heat gets generated19:39
Arkenoibtw is the flash player faster/newer in the leakware?19:39
Treibholzdoes someone have a /usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/_bsddb.so19:41
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achipatripzero: the point is Moorestown sucks a breakthrough 21mW when idle. Now look up how much an ARM draws when idle19:42
tripzeroachipa, agreed19:42
povbot`Bug 9865: Python missing bsddb module19:42
tripzeroachipa, i was just curious on what you actual complaint with it was19:42
Treibholzfrals: yeah...19:43
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Treibholzfrals: this is so stupid....19:43
achipatripzero: I don't have a complaint - just saying it still has not addressed the issues that prevented it from entering the smartphone arena19:43
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achipatripzero: UMPC people will be happy, as it gains a lot where they were suffering, but others... not really19:44
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achipaArkenoi: yes, but not significantly (mostly security fixes)19:44
tripzeroachipa, okay. that makes sense19:44
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Arkenoiachipa: still v9?19:44
achipaArkenoi: yes, 9.0.260 iirc19:45
Treibholzfrals: is there another way to access the addressbook with python?19:45
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* Arkenoi thinks UMPCs sucked big time until finger-friendly systems came out19:45
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fralsTreibholz: im using it as well;
humein the calendar in maemo5, the one shipped with the N900 - how do I clear it fully? Delete it, or does that mess things up?19:46
Treibholzhume: delete * from Components;19:47
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humeTrizt, thx19:47
RST38hArkenoi: ...and the finger friendly systems continue sucking!19:47
Arkenoiachipa: so i guess PR1.2 will be that one too. That's sad, i was hoping to get flash 10 (even it was said it was ported to maemo for a long time, i've seen a mention on TMO that adobe demonstrated 10.1 beta half an year ago on n900 *prototype*)19:47
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Treibholzhume: it's an sqlitedb in ~/.calendar/calendardb19:47
Arkenoirst38h: well, it sucks less than to have destop os on a tablet19:47
RST38hOf all people, Arkenoi, why YOU would need Flash 10?19:48
achipaArkenoi: well, if what is being spread on twitter is true, we'll be happy to get 10.1 AT ALL19:48
humeTreibholz, ok... now I get it19:48
wall[e]anyone know a test app that can measure pressure sensitivity ?19:48
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RST38hMeanwhile: sharky7619:48
RST38hoh wait, no19:48
frals~curse tmo-posters19:48
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, tmo-posters !19:48
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Arkenoirst38h: it is faster and stupid rutube wants it19:48
Arkenoiand i am afraid others will follow19:49
fralswhy the hell dont people even bother to read the first fucking post in a thread :[19:49
RST38hArkenoi: rutube is useless19:49
Arkenoiyes, but some people send me links to videos hosted there19:50
RST38hMeanwhile: Airlines to enforce more vigorous 'no fly' checks19:50
wall[e]can you measure pressure sensitivity with stylus?19:50
wall[e]i could check19:50
Arkenoino fly is stupid idea at all19:50
Arkenoihow can you imagine a person so dangerous to be not allowed to fly, yet innocent enough so you cannot arrest him?19:51
Arkenoiachipa: yes, that sucks19:51
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Arkenoiachipa: as those rumors are almost certainly true -- i've read the interview they are originating from19:53
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SpeedEvilThe icelandic people have recently been enforcing a no-fly zone over europe. So anything's possible.20:04
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GAN900frals, welcome to Talk. :P20:11
GAN900Gotta love Adobe promises.20:11
achipaX-Fade: if you're still around... abiword did not quite show up in extras-devel (still)20:14
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MohammadAGthe importer seems borked btw20:15
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MohammadAGit's not the only package20:15
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achipaMohammadAG: on the bright side, at least the packages are getting optified now :)20:16
MohammadAGheh, sent the optified mc into -devel last week :)20:17
slonopotamusjohnsq: hai20:17
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MeceMohammadAG, what's mc?20:18
MohammadAGMidnight Commander20:19
slonopotamusMece: midnight commander?20:19
Meceright I figured it out actually. haven't tried it.20:19
Mecei put my epically advanced shopping list app qlister in devel.20:20
Mecefrals would understand the cleverness of the name. coming upp with that was the most demanding task.20:21
MohammadAGI don't use mc20:22
MohammadAGsomeone requested that it gets optified20:22
Meceoh. nice.20:22
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MohammadAGsame goes for
MohammadAGI know it runs at 1 fps, since I compiled it before I got the N90020:22
MohammadAGbut it's in -devel now20:23
achipaMohammadAG: did you take over maintainership ?20:23
achipaMohammadAG: of MC ?20:23
MohammadAGchanged the maintainer in the control file, yeah20:23
MeceMohammadAG is the echo "auto" > debian/maemo-optify  enough to optify an app properly? (perhaps wrong filename, but anyway)20:23
MohammadAGdepends on the app, for MC no20:24
achipaMohammadAG: the original dude said to me he's nominating you as maintainer20:24
Meceright, I forgot about wesnoth. I think I got maintainer status on that package.20:24
fralsGAN900: im still hopeful one day, someone will read before posting ;P20:24
fralsMece: lol20:24
Mecesee*, made frals lol :)20:25
Mecetotally worth the 4 extra manhours.20:25
SpeedEvilMece: hopping list app?20:25
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Mecespeedevil, well yeah.20:25
Meceportrait, tick off stuff you've put in cart. that kind of list.20:26
SpeedEvilno barcode support then? :)20:26
Mecespeedevil, unfortunately you cant install it directly due to qt fuckups.20:27
Mecespeedevil, no.20:27
Mecespeedevil, this was just something I needed so I made it. learned some qt in the process.20:27
SpeedEvilI see.20:27
* SpeedEvil has people to do his shopping for him.20:28
Mecegonna rewrite it in c++ now that I have a semi working version.20:28
SpeedEvil(admittedly, these are the supermarkets delivery people)20:28
* Mece has 4 small kids, so he has pretty long shoppinglists.20:29
SpeedEvilCurrently shopping ~monthly - which is fun.20:29
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Mecespeedevil, weekly here.20:31
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adalaljus a question, is it voiding your warranty if you undervolt or underclock your device?20:35
SpeedEviladalal: fundamentally, that question can only be gotten from nokia.20:35
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adalalsigh... thanks20:35
SpeedEvil\Underclocking and undervolting devices is not always safe. The hardware is not always stable under those conditions, and failures can occur.20:36
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SpeedEvilThey are much rarer than the normal overheating/overvolting problems - but they aren't zero20:36
RST38hare they non-reversible failures though?20:37
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SpeedEvilRST38h: some yes20:40
ShadowJKanyone running leaked 1.2 rc want to cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness?20:40
SpeedEvilRST38h: I saw one psu that really diddn't like running at low voltage - and died20:40
SpeedEvilRST38h: I would be surprised if this hits the n900 - but...20:41
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ShadowJKSilent data corruption would probably be the most annoying I'd think?20:41
Meceshadowjk, noobmonk3y is the most helpful leakywearing foo :)20:42
Mece~seen noobmonk3y20:42
infobotnoobmonk3y <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20h 34m 29s ago, saying: 'not allways a bad thing :P'.20:43
ShadowJKand crashes from that might not go away by restoring default clock and voltage20:43
SpeedEvilShadowJK: that too20:43
Treibholzhmm,listening to a podcast with pannucci AND browsing the web hangs often20:43
Treibholzwhile the integrated player works fine20:43
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: I have too much crap going on. :/ I want to get n900 setup booting from sd - so I can properly play with undervolting and measurements20:44
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RST38hShadowJK: Actually, I think that the silent data corruption danger is overrated20:44
RST38hShadowJK: When CPU fails, you usually start getting coredumps20:45
Treibholzisn't pannucci using pulsadio, too?20:45
DocScrutinizerI want a beagleboard musb_hdrc X-P20:45
ShadowJKRST38h, one byte here and there..20:45
RST38hShadowJK: Any persistent storage that is in the system is so distanced from the CPU and written using so many different protocols, that you do not get data corruption there20:45
RST38hShadowJK: I mean, not *commonly*, even if your CPU fails20:46
ShadowJKI'm thinking of that area between working and failing :P20:46
DocScrutinizerRST38h: don't forget SmartReflex - it might decide to flood the core with excessive current to compensate for the undervoltage, so gates are ticking within parameters. This might cause havoc20:47
RST38hThat "area" is usually characterized by random coredumps when running apps20:47
ShadowJKand ubi data passing through cpu during gc :)20:47
RST38hDoc: Smartreflex is off20:47
Arkenoibtw still not a single overclocking-toasted nokia? ;-)20:47
DocScrutinizerRST38h: no it's not20:47
SpeedEvilArkenoi: Given that people have been doing nasty things to them, and then returning for warranty, they may not come clean.20:47
DocScrutinizerRST38h: SmartReflex is a bunch of independent functions both in hw and sw20:47
SpeedEvilI'd love some slightly mangled n900 motherboards to play with - overclokcing statistics would be nice20:48
* Arkenoi yet to see just a single case of cpu failure that *may* be attributed to OC20:48
RST38hDoc: As I said, Smartreflex is off in N900s and there are hw reasons why it is off20:48
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: what you call "off" is just the automatics to regulate core voltage20:48
RST38hDoc: oh ok20:48
ShadowJKisn't just vdd1_comp and vdd2_comp off?20:48
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: so basically "SmartReflex" is off BECAUSE undervolting caused issues20:49
n900-dkhmm, guess my N900 i broken - can't seem to get Swipe-from-left select-text gesture to work20:49
n900-dkhow hard do you have to press outside the screen?20:50
DocScrutinizernot more han inside20:50
lcukn900-dk, about 2/3 of the way down is the sweet spot20:50
lcukjust same motino you pan desktop with20:50
lcukbut start from offscreen20:51
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* lcuk hates hidden gestures on principle tho20:51
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* frals steals lcuks bacon20:51
sECuREwhat’s this motion about?20:51
DocScrutinizerwhat's a hidden gesture?20:51
n900-dkthe mouse newer shows up :/20:51
ShadowJKI usually press harder actually...20:51
* Arkenoi thinks of that gesture as usability fail20:51
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: here, I'll show you:          See?20:52
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ShadowJKand I had problems after touching the screen calibration app.. it's broken :)20:52
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Arkenoiactually a hardware button would be much much better20:52
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lcuki wouldnt mind if there was a way to activate the mode from menu or something20:52
DocScrutinizerI *never* touched screen calib on N90020:52
* n900-dk has stupid fingers20:53
sECuREah, got it working, thanks for the hint20:53
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Arkenoibtw is screen calibration fixed in recent titan kernels?20:53
lcukDocScrutinizer, in future when we have embedded touchable computers in regular equipment, like the microsoft barroom thing20:53
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lcukpeople are going to look more stupid than now because they will randomly click and press inanimate objects20:53
RST38hlcuk: Embedded into what?20:53
sECuREbut it only works in the browser, it seems?20:53
* RST38h can think of a few... places20:54
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lcukwalls and desks20:54
tripzeroi want one embedded in my wife20:54
DocScrutinizerlcuk: mehehe20:54
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DocScrutinizersECuRE: only browser20:54
Arkenoisecure: conversations as well20:54
lcuktripzero, your wife probably has technology embedded inside her20:55
Arkenoibut not email (and that's stupid)20:55
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ShadowJKI guess you can use Sketch, extend to canvas so that it's wider than screen, pick finest brush, then draw finger from outside screen inwards, if line on screen doesn't start right at the left/right edge of screen, gestures will fail20:55
tripzerolcuk, yes, but it's currently "unstable"20:55
sECuREin xterm, it would be useful20:55
lcukchange the batteries20:55
tripzeroneeds a firmware update20:55
DocScrutinizersECuRE: in xterm there's a button20:56
ShadowJKscreen calib isn't a kernel issue afaik, there's a fixed screen calib .deb in the screencalib-is+broken thread on tmo :P20:56
tripzeroin fact, probably needs a complete kernel rewrite20:56
tripzerothe scheduler is all messed up20:56
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lcukconsumption society, just throw out the old one and get a newer model20:56
sECuREDocScrutinizer: i know the paste button, but i am looking for copy20:56
ShadowJKneed to paint something first, then copy button will be next to paste button20:57
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DocScrutinizerthere's the cursor with red bar20:57
n900-dkShadowJK: it doesn't start sketching at the edge, but a little inside, both on the left and right side..20:57
sECuREthat’s what it is for, thanks20:58
ShadowJKn900-dk, when I do it the same way I do it to trigger gestures, it starts sketching at the edge20:58
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ShadowJKnote that default canvas is smaller than sceenwidth so you have to extend it first for this test20:58
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n900-dkI really cant sketch to the edge, not even with the stylus21:02
Arkenoii guess we need a) different io scheduler b) explicit memory cache for media player21:03
Arkenoiand c) working ionice21:03
Arkenoiwith all that sync and indexer crap running at lowest possible priority -- really21:04
ShadowJKand dedicated swap device21:04
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DocScrutinizerhow hard is it to get a tmo thread title changed?21:04
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DocScrutinizer  N900 will not allow USB OTG  -> N900 will now allow USB hostmode  :-D21:05
ShadowJKgot it working or just everyone agreeing it can be done? :p21:06
DocScrutinizer#2 for now :-D21:06
wall[e]what does host mode mean?21:07
wall[e]sorry, I am from '0021:07
ShadowJKwall[e], that you can connect stuff like usb memory sticks to n900 usb port21:07
wall[e]like you can plug a usb keyboard?21:07
n900-dkShadowJK: now it works! I tried to recalibrate the screen, and now the mouse marker show up, thx! :)21:07
DocScrutinizerjust a thread with 75+ pages and THAT title like it's now is hardly attracting anybody21:07
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wall[e]ShadowJK, cool.21:08
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RST38hDoc: Eh?21:08
wall[e]ok, done with this. no more mypaint!21:08
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: why eh?21:08
wall[e]ShadowJK, will a keyboard work?21:09
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DocScrutinizerwall[e]: it will21:09
wall[e]I just bought bluetooth kb for no reason!21:09
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* wall[e] sobs on DocScrutinizer's shoulder.21:09
DocScrutinizernah, you'll need it for a short while, until the kernel driver is fixed21:10
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Arkenoiwall[e]: dealextreme?21:11
wall[e]Arkenoi, mx550021:11
wall[e]but the mouse rocks, well, thinking about it i feel much better.21:11
Arkenoidamn it is expensive one ;-)21:12
wall[e]the mouse has freaking gear!21:12
MohammadAGI wonder if there are USB controlled Javelins21:12
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yes21:12
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: LOOOOOL21:12
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* MohammadAG reads a how to write kernel drivers from scratch, need to get this asap! :P21:12
* MohammadAG closes the how to21:13
* ioeee saluda pero poquito que me canso o/21:13
wall[e]Arkenoi, a quarter of my month salary :S21:13
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, would that rotate around the globe twice? :P21:13
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: If you launch it really high up - sure21:13
Arkenoiwall[e]: too much for me to buy with "no reason". it seems nice, though. i prefer cheap BTCs, anyways.21:15
wall[e]finished, sorry keep posting wip21:15
wall[e]Arkenoi, i got it for the mouse21:15
wall[e]it has special gear that allow free spinning like for 10 seconds21:15
wall[e]so you can scroll large page with ease21:15
wall[e]and i need extra buttons for 3d work21:16
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DocScrutinizerhmm, a real fun with N900 and hostmode21:16
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: is it working?21:17
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, how high? :)21:17
wall[e]i still have a camera for the hole21:17
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: almost ;-P21:17
jacekowskishame that i can only do some real hacking on saturday21:17
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: we are 100% sure how we put it to work (well, except the bme part)21:18
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DocScrutinizeraah, btw... who's got a beagleboard?21:18
DocScrutinizer~seen javispedro21:19
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Around 200000km21:19
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 1h 51m 46s ago, saying: 'oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it.'.21:19
MohammadAGI'll tell you when I know what a beagleboard is21:19
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: #edev21:20
jacekowskiMohammadAG: arm development board21:20
jacekowskimarcels: with same soc as n90021:20
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jacekowskiMohammadAG: ^21:20
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you know the community?21:20
jacekowskiMohammadAG: and very similiar peripherials21:20
MohammadAGbasically, an N900 with official OTG21:20
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, send him a PM21:20
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: actually - I recall vaguely there may be a #beagle21:21
SpeedEvilor something21:21
MohammadAGhe's online21:21
DocScrutinizerI'd guess some 2..5 ppl here in should have both N810 and beagleboard21:21
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: pong21:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: heh :-D21:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: what happened?21:35
DocScrutinizerjust wondered how much you could help with hostmode21:35
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javispedroso far, not at all, I'm just trying to follow.21:36
DocScrutinizerdo you know anybody with a beagleboard?21:36
javispedrothere MUST be somebody here with one.21:36
DocScrutinizerI bet21:36
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lcukkeesj has one agaik21:37
DocScrutinizeralas he didn't rise his hand when I asked 10 min ago21:37
javispedroI've been diffing nokia kernel to both upstream and linux omap21:37
javispedroupstream generates an insane 300k diff21:37
javispedrolinux omap is also insane but I see some files have been renamed and moved around mostly21:38
javispedrofor example twl3040 stuff from /drivers/i2c/chips to its current positions in n900 kernel21:38
DocScrutinizer300k LINES??21:38
DocScrutinizerduh bro21:38
javispedroI want to prove my point, which is that modifications in the usb subsystem vs beagleboard kernel are minimal21:39
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'd be really curious about the diffs in /source/kernel/drivers/usb/* from maemo to whatever beagleboard runs21:40
DocScrutinizerlol, yea21:40
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javispedroseems that they merged some stuff from a more recent linux-omap kernel than 2.6.28, since some TI copyrights are newer.21:41
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: Stskeeps: we should start an initiative to open up bme now, concurrently. We need it for hostmode now21:41
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javispedroand quite a lot of differences are cleaning and refactoring stuff which I really doubt Nokia did for a n900-only branch :D21:42
* wall[e] wonders if he could sell mx5500 w/o the mouse21:42
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: who's 'they' 2 lines above?21:42
DocScrutinizeraah k21:43
javispedrothere's mostly a single person behind the changes, seems.21:43
javispedro(as listed in )21:43
DocScrutinizerI *wonder* if beagleboard would go to hostmode on 'echo host >mode'21:44
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DocScrutinizeror maybe echo b_host..." or whatever21:44
javispedroaccording to that linked irc conversation from above, NOT. it needs a reboot.21:44
javispedro( )21:44
javispedro<sakoman> "Inserting an OTG cable does not trigger a switch to host mode" (and this is around 2 months old...)21:45
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DocScrutinizererr really? 2009-02-17#T14:58:3321:47
javispedroep, touché, sorry.21:47
javispedrowonder if situation improved, cause the driver didn't...21:48
DocScrutinizerhmm :-S21:48
DocScrutinizerno changes in beagleboard usb driver since >1 year then?21:48
javispedrothe ti+nokia copyrighted one got merged in 2.6.3321:49
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javispedroI didn't diff extensively, but from a quick look, it has better error handling and that's about it.21:49
javispedroalso btw note there's something interesting there21:50
javispedroI would forget about the a_idle b_idle stuff21:50
DocScrutinizerI friggin wonder how they can publish a twl4030 driver, while N900 is using bq24150 and bme instead of 4030 chargepump, and 1707 instead of 4030 phy21:50
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javispedrosince it comes from the linkstat function21:50
javispedroand that function just reads STS_HARDWARE_CONDITIONS twl3040 reg21:50
javispedroand will only say a_idle if ID pin bit is asserted.21:51
javispedrowhich is something we cannot do.21:51
DocScrutinizerbasically twl4030 isn't involved at all on N900 usb XP21:51
Stskeepssts hardware?21:51
javispedrosts_hw_conditions :)21:51
Stskeepsi never fail21:51
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (a_idle) that's OTG21:52
DocScrutinizerwe don't want OTG21:52
DocScrutinizerwe want forced host_ONLY mode21:52
javispedroyeah, but it means we'll never see anyother than "b_idle" in that procfs file21:53
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javispedroEVEN if for some magical reason host mode worked.21:53
javispedroI am talking about this one21:54
DocScrutinizerif (sysfs_streq(buf, "host"))   ... else if (sysfs_streq(buf, "peripheral")) ... else if (sysfs_streq(buf, "otg"))21:55
javispedroyes, you're talking about WRITING it, I'm talking about what we read from it :)21:55
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DocScrutinizerheh :-D21:56
javispedrowe're to assume that the twl4030 is incomplete.21:57
javispedro*twl3040 driver.21:57
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: anyway there's quite obviously something fishy about that. We should just echo host >mode and here we go21:57
javispedro(unless definite proof from a beagleboard owner..)21:57
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tybolltfrade: way to go!21:58
DocScrutinizerand I bet there has to be a somewhat more complete version somewhere21:58
javispedrowhich I cannot find :821:58
DocScrutinizerI hoped for beagleboard21:58
SpeedEvilI wonder if it's worthwhile ailing the people mentioned in the copyright strings21:59
javispedroI wondered that too.21:59
javispedroSpecially the Nokian?21:59
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: that's your job though, I'd say. Best chances to get something out of it (or Stskeeps )22:00
javispedrofor example the isp1301 driver logic is much more complex, not as easy as twl3040-usb's "is pin bit asserted => a_idle else b_idle."22:00
DocScrutinizeryes, I looked nto that22:00
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DocScrutinizerthat's exactly the ID pin initial thing22:01
DocScrutinizerfor OTG22:01
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DocScrutinizerwe schould be able to grab that and rewrite for 4030/170722:01
javispedroseems like a plan :P22:02
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DocScrutinizerI mean the basic USB protocols and foo are same for 1707 and 130322:03
DocScrutinizererr 130122:03
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RST38hHas it been confirmed that USB host is hw-wise possible on the N900 though?22:03
RST38hwhen? =)22:03
DocScrutinizerthere's not the slightest doubt in that22:03
DocScrutinizerduring the last 7 days22:03
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javispedroin my limited experience I'm starting to agree with that prediction. only possible bummer is that isp1707a needs id pin for anything, and that doesn't seem to be the case from reading similar datasheets..22:05
DocScrutinizerthe SoC (the musb if in soc) can evidently do hostmode, see beagleboard. the 1707 has no restrictions why it couldn't work in hostmode as well, as actually it's mostly agnostic of any mode22:05
javispedro*would be that...22:05
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DocScrutinizerexcept for switching pullup/pulldown resistors, and those are configurable via already spotted bits in a register22:06
DocScrutinizerinside 170722:07
DocScrutinizernot related to ID pin22:07
SpeedEvilthe only wrinkle would be if enough is in hardware that the USB MAC requires the ID pin before doing the turnaround in firmware. But that seems not to be the case - see the forced host mode22:07
SpeedEvilI can't see any reason why - apart from unnoticed erratas - that it shouldn't work.22:07
DocScrutinizerexactly, please let's forget about the ID pin. It's absolutely strictly for detecting A/B-end of a USB-OTG cable *only*22:08
wall[e]how do I check which package spent most disk space in / ?22:08
wall[e]in certain partition22:08
wall[e]now my root is full22:08
DocScrutinizerwall[e]: du / | sort -n22:09
SpeedEvilwall[e]: The wrong way (that I use is to install gnu-find) then find / -mount -ctime -20 -size +100k22:09
wall[e]shouldn't it be something to do with dpkg?22:09
SpeedEvilwall[e]: this finds all files newer than 20 days that are on the root and >100k22:09
* javispedro remembers the PXA usb controller... it was much easier.22:09
wall[e]ah good idea22:09
SpeedEviland yes - it would be nice if dpkg can output it - I don't think what's on the phone can output that22:09
wall[e]dpkg -l pipe to du some how?22:10
wall[e]tracing individual packages22:10
wall[e]may be it's good for an app?22:10
DocScrutinizerdudes, I need breakfast err dinner22:10
javispedrome too, seeya22:10
* DocScrutinizer waves22:10
* wall[e] waves22:10
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wall[e]good luck home mode!22:10
wall[e]make me waste my bt kb! if that make you feel happy!22:11
SpeedEvilwall[e]: geenerally find works well - it's usually pretty clear where the packages are coming from.22:11
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SpeedEvilthe files22:11
wall[e]ok, thanks22:11
wall[e]let me try22:11
* wall[e] installs gnu-find22:12
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dhqis there any map software update22:17
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SpeedEvilyou mean to ovi maps?22:20
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MohammadAGpython is a pain in the ass22:23
MohammadAGo/ crashanddie22:23
dhqSpeedEvil: yes22:23
dhqbut this one doesnt even get connected it take long timr to lock on22:23
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SpeedEvilyou have an internet connection?22:24
dhqno internet on my mobile22:24
dhqi spent my 2 months salary on this phone and was upset when i got it and the mas dint work :(22:25
SpeedEvilGetting a lock in a place with a clear view of the sky and no stored data may take several minutes the first time.22:25
dhqit take like 10 mins everytime22:26
SpeedEvilIt shouldn't take that amount of time nearly if you use it regularly after that though22:26
povbot`Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view22:26
SpeedEvilcommenting on that bug with your experiences may be helpful.22:26
SpeedEvilsorry - adk22:26
E0xcrazy thing spent 2 months salaray in a phone22:26
dhqE0x: what to do i had an old phone and wanted a really good phone22:27
jacekowskistill, 2 months salary on a phone22:27
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E0xdhq: that don't justified spend that amount of money22:28
Arkenoieven 9000 did not cost me that much ;-)22:28
jacekowskiif i could save 2 months salary22:28
Arkenoibut one month it was22:28
jacekowskii would be a rich man22:28
E0xjacekowski: me too22:28
dhqwell i know but, had to get this phone cauz it was the best linux phone22:29
dhqwhen will the new ovimaps come to this phone22:30
jacekowskibesides, n900 is like £50022:30
E0xyou have plan of do some developepment on it ?22:30
E0xbecause i don't see the point then22:30
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dhqwell its just a personal thing i guess ......22:31
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SpeedEvilIt's a valid bug - can we try to focus on helping?22:31
Arkenoi9000 was $3k here when launched, though it was about twice its price in finland, i surely did not pay that much22:32
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dhqso no new ovimaps or anyother map software there22:34
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dhqok will try that22:36
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dhqok am of to bed see you guys tommoro .... Goodnight all22:39
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dhqand when i connect to a wifi network my phone restarts at various intervals22:40
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E0xrestart ?22:41
dhqyes the phone just reboots22:41
jacekowskilooks like wd rebooting it22:42
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dhqso what do i do22:43
E0xdo you have the laste maemo update ?22:43
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E0xmenu->settings->about: Version: ..22:44
E0xwhat say ?22:44
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E0x003 ?22:45
dhqthis is what is there22:45
E0xi have 002 and not show more update available22:45
dhqi use the middleeast firmware22:45
lcukafaik 003 is the HW variant and not relating to a newer version22:46
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MohammadAGis there any way to send key strokes using terminal?22:56
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sECuREnot sure if it works on the n900, but on X you have xtest22:57
_llll_send them where? echo?22:57
sECuREyou can use it to generate keyboard/mouse events22:57
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wall[e]send keystroke to where?23:02
wall[e]ah to any window?23:02
wall[e]yes but need the window id23:02
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CabletwitchOh knowledgable people, I come to thee with a problem of the most basic nature... but I'm a numpty, and cant seem to find the bloody answer.23:04
CabletwitchI want to remove that plugin which seems to come bundled with xchat, but apparently need root to be able to actually do anything to it.23:05
microlithbundled plugin?23:06
CabletwitchDespite trying various things, I dont seem to be successful when trying to gain it.23:06
microlithfirst, what plugin might you be referring to?23:06
CabletwitchYeah, some annoying notification plugin. Lets you know when someone talks to you when you're not focussed on xchat.23:06
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microlithoh, I don't think that's a plugin :)23:07
PhonicUKhey all23:07
CabletwitchI unload it manually at startup, but I'd much rather is was gone for good.23:08
CabletwitchI can unload it on the plugin menu?23:08
TriztN900timeless_mbp: today I got another update of gb localization and it seems to be for pr1.2 which gives estetical faults on 1.1.123:08
jacekowskipr 1.2?23:09
jacekowskiis it released?23:09
Arkenoibtw what does "minimize to tray" xchat option do?23:09
microlithCabletwitch: yeah, it's in there. didn't realize it23:09
microlithArkenoi: nothing on maemo23:09
CabletwitchMicrolith: I located it eventually, but cant do anything with it without root.23:10
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TriztN900jacekowski: only for those in Uganda23:10
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microlithCabletwitch: I just unloaded it on mine without issue23:10
jacekowskiwhy niggers get it sooner23:10
CabletwitchIdeally, the plugins folder should be user accessible without requiring admin access.23:10
TriztN900jacekowski: for they dont nag about it being late23:10
CabletwitchMicrolith: Oh, I can unload it. I just want to remove it permenantly23:10
microlithCabletwitch: plugins are system wide, let me check something real quick23:11
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CabletwitchI'm still very new to messing with the device in this capacity, so while it might be a trivial thing, its still over my head right now :O)23:11
microlithCabletwitch: no problem, it's worth it :)23:12
microliththe plugin is part of the xchat package, so I recommend against removing it for fear of breaking the package23:12
microlithhowever, to get root you should install the "rootsh"package23:13
CabletwitchI'm never going to make a programmer, I've not got the head for it. But knowing how to break/unbreak it on a more technical level could be useful.23:13
CabletwitchI belive I have the rootsh package.23:13
microlithopen up the terminal23:13
microlithand type "root"23:13
Cabletwitchone sec...23:13
CabletwitchYou're joking me? That easy?23:14
microliththa teasy23:14
CabletwitchWhats with the whole sudo gainroot crap then? XD23:14
microlithwas used on previous internet tablets, iirc23:14
CabletwitchI think the wiki needs updating23:14
CabletwitchDamn, dont I feel like a twat now XD23:15
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CabletwitchNow, how long does root access last, until I close the terminal, or reboot?23:15
microlithtype "exit"23:15
microlithor close the terminal23:16
CabletwitchAnd, can I use the graphical GPE file manager to do the business?23:16
PhonicUKCabletwitch, CuteExplorer is more finger friendly23:16
CabletwitchI presume that would have the same privs, no?23:16
JaffaCabletwitch: 'root' is (roughly) a asynonym to "sudo gainroot" provided by rootsh23:16
Jaffas/a asy/a sy/23:17
infobotJaffa meant: Cabletwitch: 'root' is (roughly) a synonym to "sudo gainroot" provided by rootsh23:17
CabletwitchCuteExplorer wasnt there when I grabbed the GPE one.23:17
CabletwitchCheers Jaffa23:17
PhonicUKapt-get install cuteexplorer23:17
PhonicUKas root23:17
PhonicUKi like it a lot :)23:17
CabletwitchI'll do that when I'm on the wifi, using gprs currently.23:18
PhonicUKits pretty small23:18
PhonicUKyou'd be fine getting it over 2G23:18
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CabletwitchBut cheers chaps, you've sorted my conundrum out :O)23:18
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PhonicUKanyone know if theres a Q2 port that uses OpenGL ES?23:24
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tybolltlovely greece - you folks are fucked :)23:26
PhonicUKor Q1 for that matter23:26
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JaffaPhonicUK: Does the Q2 port for Maemo 5 use s/w rendering?23:27
MohammadAG<Arkenoi> btw what does "minimize to tray" xchat option do?23:29
MohammadAGit minimizes to the tray23:30
MohammadAG(get the notification tray app for that)23:30
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PhonicUKWinSCP = awesome23:30
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PhonicUKI wish Windows could natively mount a location over SSH23:30
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mikki-kunPhonicUK: windows doesn't even know what ssh is23:31
PhonicUKi know :\23:31
PhonicUKdoes anybody else use SSH/SCP to move files to/from their device?23:31
mikki-kunit's kind of funy that my n900 is more powerful than a windows machine running with an i7 :D23:32
mikki-kunPhonicUK: i do... all the time23:32
PhonicUKhow do you figure that?23:32
PhonicUKI like SSHing into it and treating it like any other unix box23:32
mikki-kunwell, at least if it comes in regards of connectivity23:32
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mikki-kunyou ssh to a windows machine?23:32
PhonicUKno into my N90023:33
PhonicUKfrom my windows desktop23:33
mikki-kunahhhh, yeah, that i do if i need some console-work done23:33
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mikki-kunthe keyboard is a lil too small for that on the n90023:33
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mikki-kunPhonicUK: you use uhm... puTTY right?23:33
PhonicUKI have a icon on my desktop that just connects to it automagically :)23:33
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PhonicUKauthenticates with a DSA key23:33
mikki-kunok... kind of reminds me now "hey, that sounds familiar ... oh yeah, 'there is an app for that'" :D23:34
PhonicUKdo you ever VNC into your device?23:34
mikki-kuni didn't try vnc up until now23:34
lcuki vnc from it often23:35
PhonicUKits pretty cool, if a bit slow23:35
mikki-kunfirst i gotta get my homework done with secure shell23:35
lcukits rare i need to see/interact with a remote n90023:35
PhonicUKive RDP'ed from it a few times23:35
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PhonicUKlcuk, mines only remote in so far as its sat on my desk connected to my WiFI23:35
mikki-kunuhm... RPD?23:35
PhonicUKRDP = Remote Desktop Protocol23:35
PhonicUKto connect to windows machines23:35
mikki-kunahhh, the windows stuff23:35
lcuktho the first time i touched fremantle was on my n810 using vnc from qwertys home xepyhr23:35
PhonicUKits much faster than VNC23:35
mikki-kunPhonicUK: but only from windows to windows23:36
lcukPhonicUK, and depends on what you need23:36
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PhonicUKnope, you can connect to a windows machine from a linux box23:36
PhonicUKrdesktop :)23:36
PhonicUKI wish we had something like VNC that used MPEG / MJPEG so i could stream video23:36
mikki-kunahhh, ok...23:36
mikki-kunevery day new bits of information reaching /dev/brain :D23:36
lcukPhonicUK, nahh simple compression is best23:37
lcukits still hard work compressing all the bits even for a bigger computer23:37
PhonicUKlcuk, not at 800x480 for a 3.2GHz quad core23:37
lcukinfact harder - because big high spec machines also seem to have big high res screens23:37
mikki-kunPhonicUK: you could try with SSH "ssh -CY $USER@$HOST"23:37
PhonicUKlcuk, downscale the screen first before encoding :P23:37
lcukPhonicUK, scaling your 3200*1200 dual desktop is still hard23:37
lcukand you wouldnt see anything23:37
PhonicUKtheres a really good app for the PSP that does it extremely well23:38
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PhonicUK30fps with maybe 50ms latency23:38
PhonicUKover Wifi23:38
PhonicUK480x272, MJPEG23:38
PhonicUKI played TF2 with it, was awesome23:38
mikki-kunPhonicUK: PSP? hell, what did happen there with it?! Ö.Ö23:38
mikki-kunluckily i still have my old PSP-1000 with CFW :D23:38
lcukPhonicUK, then why arent those patches in the public vnc..23:38
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PhonicUKlcuk, it doesn't use VNC23:39
PhonicUKits a custom protocol23:39
PhonicUKbut its open source :)23:39
PhonicUKmaybe ill make a Linux port23:39
PhonicUKits really simple23:39
lcukintegrate into vnc and get best of all worlds..23:39
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mikki-kunPhonicUK: uhm, did you try running that from the outside world?23:39
PhonicUKmikki, nope - but mainly because my internet is shite23:39
mikki-kunok, that explains stuff23:40
lcuktho the extra work to do fullscreen compression is ott and just overdoiing stuff23:40
mikki-kuni know what you mean23:40
PhonicUK3Mbit down, 256KBit up23:40
PhonicUKfecking BT23:40
lcuki use vnc anywhere over 3g23:40
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mikki-kunok, the up sucks... i should have 8/51223:40
PhonicUKIf i had my old connection (40/4) I would :)23:40
lcukorks over dialup too :)23:40
mikki-kunbut out of thailand i have like mail-pidgeon to nothing23:41
PhonicUKits annoying, my old house that had 40/4 is walking distance away23:41
* lcuk did remote tech support to windows users many times that way23:41
PhonicUKRDP is much more bandwidth efficient than VNC for 'applications'23:41
PhonicUKfor anything else (random bitmaps etc) its less23:41
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lcukPhonicUK, does rdp interact with the current session or is it using terminal services?23:42
lcukor whatever its called23:42
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* lcuk still knows people with win9x who have vnc23:43
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PhonicUKlcuk, it can do either23:44
lcukdoes vista/w7 still do the cute thing of blocking the interactive user when a remote session starts?23:45
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MohammadAGlcuk, adorable isn't it?23:45
lcukmakes you want to pat it on the head23:45
lcukwith a hammer23:45
PhonicUKlcuk, yeah when using terminal service mode (default)23:46
PhonicUKif you use 'remote assistance' mode, it doesn't behave like that23:46
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PhonicUKtheres also a hack to let you have multiple terminal sessions23:46
PhonicUKbut its only 1 per user so you need to ahve an extra user account23:46
lcukthere are so many gotchas with RA mode and failure points we standardised and got instructions down which worked always23:47
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MohammadAGbut of course remote assistance is f'd up enough to allow someone from here to control your PC23:47
ZogGi got the most wierd msg on maemo tal23:47
ZogGhello! Im so noob that i dont know how to enter on a IRC. And i sucefully instaled android on my n810. Now i'm trying to install ubuntu.23:48
ZogGwhat does he want from me?23:48
lcukZogG, of course23:48
jacekowskiMohammadAG: RA is quite secure23:48
ZogGlcuk of course what?23:48
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lcukpeople find it easier installing entire operating systems on their devices than opening a webpage23:49
MohammadAGjacekowski, so secure someone on freenode was downloading a .bat file to my PC23:49
lcuk \o/23:49
jacekowskiand it wasn't RA23:50
jacekowskiit was remote desktop23:50
ZogGlcuk, you missed something - that was letter i got23:50
jacekowskiand that's disabled by default23:50
ZogGit's not me =)23:50
lcukyeah ZogG you are here23:50
lcukthey arent23:50
MohammadAGno idea, but I narrowed everything down till I found it was RA23:50
ZogGperhaps next time i should use quotes23:50
MohammadAGthink I enabled it once23:50
jacekowskiremote assistance is disabled by default23:50
ZogGlcuk and it's good for us =)23:50
jacekowskiand remote assistance != remote desktop23:50
ZogGMohammadAG go to sleep23:51
jacekowskiand most likely you had remote desktop enabled with some easy password23:51
lcukwe used to configure vnc with reverse connections and disable regular nbound stuff23:51
MohammadAGNope, I use VNC for that23:51
lcukso they had to pop up box and connect to us23:51
PhonicUKanyone know how to batch-rename everything to lower case?23:51
lcukgot round all router problems23:51
jacekowskiPhonicUK: google23:51
ZogGgn8 everyone23:51
mikki-kunmeh... why the heck did again forget my freaking password?!23:51
jacekowskiPhonicUK: quite easy to find23:51
jacekowskilcuk: teamviewer is quite nice23:52
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lcuksure jacekowski but even solutions like that had problems23:52
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PhonicUKthe scripts don't work under busybox's flavor of SH23:53
lcukslower on average23:53
lcukdidnt work under all conditions and having to know and understand peoples broser support23:53
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lcukand god forbid they had firefox or something that doesnt use activex23:53
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PhonicUKhas anyone got quake2 to play nice?23:54
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lcukmeanwhile with a small app included in software package for support purposes we were able to reliably and smoothly get on any system we needed to (with the customer driving the connection)23:55
PhonicUKError: Couldn't load pics/colormap.pcx23:56
PhonicUKbut I have pak0 etc etc23:56
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