IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-04-02

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PhonicUKhmm, the n900 emulator has no xterm :/00:08
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lcukthe meego one has one!00:09
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Arif_Moogo is ONLY XTerm \o/00:09
javispedroosso-xterm was shipped with previous sdks..00:09
PhonicUKwhat does it output for uname -a ?00:09
javispedrobut I guess it was on extras by then :P00:09
lcukhey javispedro \o00:10
javispedroevening lcuk00:10
javispedrothanks :)00:10
Jaffajavispedro: *poke* about "Council business" thread00:11
JaffaGAN900: *poke* about "Council business" thread ;-)00:11
javispedroJaffa: I know, I was just waiting to have more to say other than "+1" :)00:11
GAN900Jaffa, being stuck in traffic is as good a time as any to look at email, I guess. . . .00:11
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Jaffajavispedro: bandwidth's cheap ;-)00:12
javispedroI find that "other" thread more interesting..00:12
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GAN900Jaffa, sent. . . .00:13
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PhonicUKi wanna port my prototype AR app :)00:15
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PhonicUKthis ought to be fun00:15
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* MohammadAG__ is kind of pissed off00:25
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MohammadAG__reflashed for the third time, and some **** app keeps crashing the volume keys00:26
Arif_stop installing apps after the reflash00:27
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MohammadAG__Arif_, my menu feels small if i do that00:27
Arif_stop installing stuff from devel, then00:28
MohammadAG__uninstalled an app, restarting to see if it fixed it00:28
* lupine_85 wonders if the MeeGo kernel would run the N900 + maemo 5 competently00:28
MohammadAG__@ Arif_00:28
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* PhonicUK wonders how well meego will run on the n90000:29
MohammadAG__i like dangerous stuff00:29
* b-man17 is trying to get meego booting atm00:29
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MohammadAG__PhonicUK, it will change architecture to x86 and download Windows 700:29
PhonicUKon an n900?00:29
Arif_PhonicUK, it will not?00:29
b-man17the stupid .tar.gz rootfs image i downloaded is corrupted >:(00:30
MohammadAG__rebooting (love doing it from xchat lol)00:30
MohammadAG__/exec sudo reboot00:30
Arif_Windows Phone 7 with no copy paste \o/00:30
b-man17PhonicUK: yup00:30
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* Arkenoi got impression that newer n900 are somehow physically different from old ones. I purchased replacement one and noticed that keyboard slide is more tight, screen feels a bit different when touched and keyboard surface is more rough. and it *always* starts charging immediately when plugged in00:35
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woglinde_nice blog article from harald again00:35
woglinde_about changes in qt00:35
woglinde_kinetic stuff00:35
lcukhey woglinde_ post links :p00:36
woglinde_as always00:36
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PhonicUKwindows 7 phone is a joke00:37
woglinde_PhonicUK sure?00:38
PhonicUKits all the worst things of the iphail + the worst things of winmo00:38
woglinde_did you play with it?00:39
PhonicUKnot yet00:39
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PhonicUKnot interested in any device that forces a single app store00:39
javispedrowe really, really, really need an "important announcements" blog, mailing list.00:39
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PhonicUKwhere the manufacturer says what they will and won't allow00:40
MohammadAGugh still not working00:40
PhonicUKwhich is bs for devs and users00:40
javispedromaybe even categorized -- extras uploaders list, general developer list, general user list.00:40
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ea_suterHi, can anyone tell me when vdvsx is usually around?01:08
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woglinde_10 a.m. to 6 p.m.01:09
ea_suterthanks :)01:09
woglinde_central europe time01:09
woglinde_I seldom saw him in the late evening01:10
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balazsbelahey all01:13
balazsbelaI'm using the maemo sdk on xephyr, and I've been trying the qt devel examples01:14
balazsbelaas soon as I start them they turn sidewise01:14
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balazsbelalike you would turn your phone01:14
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balazsbelathis is a bit irritating on a laptop01:14
balazsbelais there a way to make it turn back ?01:14
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* balazsbela goes to read the manual01:16
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MohammadAGhow do I check what's run at startup?01:21
MohammadAGthis issue is really annoying me01:21
javispedroGOOD LORD.01:21
javispedroit can't be.01:22
javispedrolardman.. is NOT on the frontpage!01:23
derfIs the front page 404?01:24
derfThat's the only explanation I could think of.01:24
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javispedrono no, 200!01:24
javispedrothis must be the hidden april fools.01:24
Pforceapril fools is over, at least in finland :)01:25
SpeedEvilslashdot is fail today01:25
* b-man17 loves what google did for April fool's day01:26
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SpeedEvilcoolest announce today was freeing of much ordnance survey data.01:26
SpeedEvilmaps and stuff of the uk01:26
Arif_Nokia should have announced PR 2.0 for N90001:27
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b-man17Arif_: rofl01:29
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SpeedEvilArif_, PR1.2 for 331001:33
Arif_S40 ported to the N90001:33
Arif_with snake multiplayer over IR \o/01:34
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* MohammadAG solved his volume key problem01:43
MohammadAGseems to be either modified-hildon-desktop or keyboard-shortcuts01:43
MohammadAGuninstalled both, purged them, then reinstall the media player after purging it01:44
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Arif_now you can change the volume !01:45
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firestorm_is there any mms software out there01:47
MohammadAGArif_, ain't that something :P01:47
lcukSpeedEvil, :) cool stuff01:48
* Arif_ wonders why people use MMS01:49
ShadowJKmostly because other people use mms01:49
Arif_I don't like people that can afford 0,50 EUR/mms :P01:50
lcukArif_, there are more mms compatible mobile devices out there than there are email capable *and* configured01:50
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lcukof course Arif_ what might be a cool feature of fmms would be to store a checkbox on the contact - "send mms by email"01:51
lcukto specific recipients :)01:51
Arif_noone ever sent me an MMS *sob*01:52
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javispedroArif_: lucky you. I only get spam MMS :'(01:52
Arif_I never got spam on my phone in .nl01:52
firestorm_mms is the way forward01:52
Arif_in Turkey they abuse USSD to send spam :D01:52
tripzeroArif_, what's you number.  i'll forward you osme01:53
Arif_I wake up and get "DO YOU WANT TO ENABLE <insert lame service here>"01:53
firestorm_e.g if i take a picture of something and want to send to a friend while out and about who doesn't have email on the phone01:53
tripzeromms is old tech01:53
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Arif_tripzero, N900 doesn't support MMS !01:53
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lcuktripzero, so are many things01:53
lcukjust because its old doesnt mean its useless01:54
MaMaGoodyif i want more than 4 desktops i should use modified-hildon-desktop? I noticed that the package's status is removed, what does that mean?01:54
tripzeroand all those things should die01:54
firestorm_it's fooking annoying, ok yer i like to send via email or upload to facebook but some cases not ideal01:54
tripzeroMMS - that thing you used to do before your phone had the internet01:54
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tripzeroor MMS - that thing you do because your buddy doesn't have a phone with the internet01:54
firestorm_so is there a app as it isn't ideal01:55
firestorm_i wil be foced to use the g1 :(01:55
firestorm_ty :)01:55
firestorm_and is it in app manager?01:55
Arif_MohammadAG mentioned it up there somewhere01:55
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firestorm_sorry i'm on the good old xbox didn't notice it01:55
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Arif_I don't know what repo its in01:56
MohammadAGdevel i think01:56
Arif_the DS has some weird games...01:57
firestorm_hmm see i got devel added and can't see it in app manmager01:57
MohammadAGnot sure but app manager could be case sensitive01:57
MohammadAGthough I highly doubt it01:58
MohammadAGfirestorm_, do you have rootsh installed?01:58
Arif_no its not01:58
firestorm_yer i do01:58
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MohammadAGclose app manager and open terminal01:59
MohammadAGtype root, enter01:59
MohammadAGthen apt-get install fmms01:59
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SpeedEvilewok bondage02:02
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firestorm_couldnt find package02:02
Arif_try apt-get update02:02
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Arif_or add the repo properly02:03
firestorm_nope no update02:04
firestorm_i thought i did add the repo properly.... followed wiki02:04
Arif_add both devel and testing to be sure then02:04
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firestorm_added still nowt :(02:12
Arif_download>install the deb manually02:15
firestorm_juat did apt-get update and we update02:15
firestorm_did install and nothing02:15
firestorm_how do i do that Arif_  sorry bit dumb on linux02:17
Arif_so you installed fmms?02:17
Arif_or not?02:17
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firestorm_no i ain't02:18
firestorm_it  package fails when o do apt-get install gmms02:18
* Arif_ has no idea where fmms is located and is too lazy to find it02:18
MohammadAGfirestorm_, cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list02:19
MohammadAGpastebin the output02:19
Arif_I'm trying to find a DSi XL in white02:19
MohammadAGget any colour then spray it02:19
Arif_can't be bothered unscrew it to fix the speakers :p02:20
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firestorm_how can i pastbin from my phone.02:20
MohammadAGcover them before spraying02:20
MohammadAGfirestorm_, use the browser?02:20
firestorm_lol suppose :p02:21
MohammadAGor install pastebinit02:21
firestorm_epic!!!!! pastebin on phone didn't know that02:21
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Arif_MohammadAG, yeah great idea to suggest an app to someone who hasn't managed to install an app :P02:21
MohammadAGArif_, thanks02:21
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firestorm_he has got a good point lol02:22
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firestorm_this phone is wank lol can't install fook all from terminal :(02:24
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Arif_yeah blame the phone :(02:24
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firestorm_it probs is a user error though02:24
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firestorm_surley if i dont apt-get update should have all the latest packages02:25
firestorm_i need to ssh into phone it's easier02:26
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MohammadAGArif_, do you use zoutube?02:28
Arif_me not like02:28
Arif_needs a sort by date feature02:28
MohammadAGthinking that the new youtube broke it02:28
Arif_I have it installed though02:28
* Arif_ tries02:28
Arif_the circle at the top keeps spinning....02:30
Arif_and nothing happens02:31
MohammadAGyep, it's broken02:31
firestorm_getting ip address ifconfig?02:31
MohammadAG~curse youtube02:31
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, youtube !02:31
MohammadAGfirestorm_, yeah02:31
Arif_use the browser02:31
Arif_which has a very old version of flash!02:32
MohammadAGArif_, i want to download a vid02:32
Arif_I use the PC for that02:32
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MohammadAGArif_, cba to reach for my laptop :P02:35
* firestorm_ thinks trying to read x term at 1am in the morning is hard work on his poor little eyes02:36
Arif_set the font size to 3602:37
firestorm_thats cheating :p02:38
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firestorm_did they ever make open ssh for windows02:42
corecodehonestly, all this nokia software development is probably close to as shitty as apple's02:44
Arif_true, why?02:44
firestorm_deb ./02:44
firestorm_the G1 software isn't to bad tbh02:45
corecodethey don't seem to know how to do open source software development02:45
Arif_no wonder you can't find fMMS :D02:45
firestorm_deb ./02:45
corecodenow modest uses some hildon2 features that don't exist02:45
firestorm_deb ./02:46
corecodewhat's that supposed to be?02:46
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Arif_corecode, they should release bugs when they're fixed?02:46
corecodethey should develop software either in one big synchronized repo system02:47
corecodeor so that it is compatible with other versions02:47
Arif_maybe its their first try ={02:48
corecodecould ask somebody who knows how to deal with it?02:48
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Arif_and get off their comfy chairs?02:48
corecodeit's not really their first try, is it02:49
corecodemaemo exists for several years now02:49
Arif_the earlier versions were only owned by a handful of people, so they didn't exactly bother I guess02:50
firestorm_what annoys me the most is lack of pc suite support or even ovi suite02:50
corecodeoh well02:51
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corecodewhat is hildon202:51
corecodeand am i using it already?02:52
fabioslwhere can I find Maemo's template for GSoC 2010?02:52
fabiosloh... just found it02:52
Arif_what are you planning to make? :D02:53
Arif_you're entering too?02:54
viraptor_does anyone know how hard is it to get into extra-devel / extra? a lot of work or just following the main rules?02:54
corecodei just want to get modest to compile02:54
Arif_well, have fun with that02:55
* Arif_ goes to sleep02:55
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ds3hmmm... is there a way short of iptables to get the default apps to not go connecting out w/o asking first?03:00
ds3this is on the N90003:01
corecodedisable automatic network selection?03:01
ds3no, the network part... the apps part03:02
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ds3like the app mgr (or is proxy) would go probe for updates and looks like media player will insist on doing CDDB or equiv queries03:02
ds3found something for gconf to disable it for the updates03:03
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* MohammadAG seems to have installed gcc on the N90003:12
MohammadAGwow, only 70% used on /, not much since it was about 67 before the install03:12
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JakubS_does n900 media player create any log? i am trying to play http source (via dlna) and i get 'unsupported' error. however on command line gst-launch playbin2 uri=<http uri> works ok03:28
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MohammadAGJakubS_, try launching the mediaplayer from terminal03:39
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JakubS_hm, 'mediaplayer' just hangs (does not show a window), mediaplayer.launch immediately segfaults. how do i launch it?03:53
MohammadAGJakubS_, lemme check, I turned off the N900 a while ago03:55
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MohammadAGnot working here too...03:57
JakubS_strange thing is, that user-agent shows that gstreamer is used as http source. gstreamer renderer uses playbin2 and my source definitely works with gst-launch and playbin2 :-(03:59
JakubS_this is supposed to be streamed from dlna server03:59
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JakubS_after restarting renderer in command line it actually started working. I guess it just needed restart to notice my messing with gstreamer plugins04:13
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johnxIs everyone here done with the April 1st madness?04:24
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JakubS_almost morning... good night everybody04:31
jaem_n900@JakubS_, that is04:32
jaem_n900hmm... has anyone made a build of checkinstall for Maemo yet?04:32
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jaem_n900it occurred to me that that would be nicer for test builds than tar'ing everything04:32
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* RST38h yawns widely07:45
* derf inserts a cat into the void.07:46
RST38hmoo derf07:46
RST38hGizmodo seems to have gone absolute bonkers about iPad. Not sure if it is still worth keeping in the rss feed =)07:47
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Ken-YoungI've yet to see a bad review of the iPad by someone who actually used it.07:48
RST38hThose get shot by Apple's ninja commandos07:49
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*** ceolin has quit IRC07:53 related news, Saudis are beheading a popular Lebanese TV figure, for *sorcery*.07:56
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Ken-YoungRST38h, Yeah, I saw that.   Apparently he made predictions about the future on TV.07:58
Ken-YoungHe said pr1.2 would be out tomorrow.07:58
RST38hWell he is a shitty fortune teller if he has gone to Saudi Arabia...07:59
Ken-YoungHe was on a religious pilgrimage.07:59
Ken-YoungSOme sort of demi-haaj.07:59
RST38hOh, he has sacrificed himself to the Allah!08:00
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crashanddieKen-Young: I have to say I wouldn't mind having one in the living room08:24
crashanddieKen-Young: it is quite a social device in the end08:24
Ken-Youngcrashanddie, You mean an iPad?08:24
crashanddienot a beheaded saudi tv figure08:25
Ken-YoungYes, I'm planning on getting one for my mother.08:25
Ken-Young(iPad, not beheaded TV journalist)08:25
crashanddie"Happy Birthday mom" <drop corpse>08:25
crashanddieI mean, it's not expensive, I don't care about 3G or tons of storage -- everything is on the wifi anyway08:26
RST38hone gadget too many08:26
crashanddieit's just a device to easily access contextual information08:26
RST38hit is a devic for consuming iTunes content08:26
Ken-YoungRST38h, Only if you don't drop a gadget.08:26
crashanddieno need to turn on the whole projector/soundsystem, no need to go to the computer room, and a screen large enough to share with friends08:27
RST38hnot interested in iTunes.08:27
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Ken-YoungThose of us on IRC are not the intended market.08:27
Surfai can' figure out a single thing that could be done conveniently with ipad08:27
Surfasimply energonomic apple junk.. again08:28
ptl_wants_PR12me too08:28
ptl_wants_PR12the worst part is knowing that all this  buzz is just because it's apple08:28
Ken-YoungSurfa, I'm sure it offers a nicer web browsing experience than any phone, including our beloved Nokias.08:28
ptl_wants_PR12if it were another company, no one would pay that amount of lip service08:28
Surfai can browse with other devices if i want to08:28
ptl_wants_PR12nobody would care actually08:28
Ken-Youngptl_wants_PR12, No argument there.08:28
Surfaipad i by no means mobile device08:29
Surfatoo big and too uncomfy08:29
Ken-YoungSurfa, It is if you carry a pocket book, like many women do.08:29
Surfathere's limit in them too08:30
Ken-YoungIt'll fit in my mom's pocket book, which borders on gym-bag size.08:30
Surfaeven that they appear to have infinite storage amount, they don't08:30
crashanddieSurfa: pictures is one08:31
crashanddieSurfa: browsing through pictures -- that is08:31
Ken-YoungSurfa, Apparently the battery life is quite long.   It would be a fun thing to have on a plane.08:31
Ken-YoungLaptops are miserable if you don't fly first class.08:31
crashanddieKen-Young: depends what kind of laptop :P08:31
Surfai prefer reading a book on a plane08:32
Surfamuch easier than electronic devices08:32
crashanddieKen-Young: I've yet to find a long haul where the stewardess didn't allow me to charge my laptop (even if it means giving it away for an hour or two)08:32
crashanddieSurfa: I really imagine having an iPad on my coffee table in the living room08:32
crashanddieI know a lot of you don't spend time with human beings in the living room, but still08:32
Surfahey, there is a reason why tablets didn't make break through last time08:33
Surfahave you forgot it already?08:33
crashanddieyou're in a channel that promotes tablets08:33
Ken-YoungIt's not just the battery life.   On a US domestic flight, there just isn't enough room to use a laptop in coach comfortable.   Not even a netbook.08:33
crashanddieKen-Young: really?08:34
Ken-Youngcrashanddie, Gosh yes.   US domestic flying has become torture.08:34
crashanddieI don't remember that last time I was flying from LAX to TFW08:34
RST38hiPad is bigger than a pocket book08:34
Surfai can't see how ipad fans are related to meego :)08:34
RST38hIt restricts the kind of content you can watch08:34
crashanddieSurfa: wrong channel08:34
crashanddieSurfa: #meego, this is #maemo08:34
crashanddieSurfa: but yes, the N8x0 were tablets, the N900 is essentially a tablet08:35
Surfabut anyway, i've seen better tablets too.. ipad is something with wonder steves wonderpowder08:35
crashanddiethey're portable, self contained units08:35
RST38hThe battery life is like in a subnotebook, but less than in N90008:35
crashanddieRST38h: you don't know that08:35
crashanddieRST38h: most people don't even know what the battery life of the N900 is08:35
RST38hcrashanddie: Gizmodo fanatics report 8.5 hours08:36
RST38hcrashanddie: I do.08:36
crashanddieof continuous usage?08:36
Ken-YoungSurfa, Yes, but the hype-magic is real.   I don't think you can deny that both the iPod and iPhone revolutionized their niches.08:36
Surfan900 is not comparable to ipad imo08:36
MiXu-battery life@depends on a million things08:36
RST38hcrashanddie: 10 hours of reading books and playing a few games08:36
Surfait has keypad that makes the ux much better08:36
crashanddieSurfa: and I don't think anyone said such a thing08:36
MiXu-widgets on desktop have a huge effect08:36
RST38hcrashanddie: 15 hours in normal daily usage08:36
RST38hcrashanddi: something like 24-30 hours with all networking off08:37
crashanddieRST38h: seems reasonable to me -- again, I don't believe it would be used for continuous usage08:37
Surfacrashhandie,so it's better keep those devices out of this discussion :P08:37
MiXu-I get about 30 hours in my use08:38
Surfaif you want to be constantly staring your n900 of course it drains battery08:38
MiXu-email checking and weather widget are the ones that use network08:38
Surfai've seeen many people that have more than 48h battery lifetime in their typical use08:39
Surfait's just how much you want too see what's happening around you08:39
Surfabut for the ipad still.. I still don't see it anything else than oversized ipod touch08:41
RST38ha movie will drain n900 battery in 3.5-5 hours08:41
Ken-YoungIs it possible for an app on the N900 to specify to the OS that it domped up even if the app goes CPU bound?es not want the CPU speed to be bu08:41
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Ken-YoungIs it possible for an app on the N900 to specify to the OS that it does not want the  CPU speed to be bumped up even if the app goes CPU bound?es not want the CPU speed to be bu08:42
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Ken-YoungSorry about my poor typing.   I'm on an unfamiliar keyboard.08:43
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crashanddieSurfa: please don't tell me what to keep or not keep in a discussion08:47
crashanddieFYI, I'm the abusive operator here08:47
Stskeepsuhm, a bit of power tripping there crashanddie?08:48
crashanddienot power tripping, just saying things as they08:48
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Stskeepsstatements like that don't really cause a sane discussion environment.08:48
crashanddie(that wasn't a dramatic pause, just forgot a word)08:48
crashanddieI don't think IRC ever was sane08:49
MiXu-Ken-Young: afaik what you're asking is not possible. It's possible to force cpu freq upwards, but not down.08:49
Stskeepsoperator powers should be for removing abusive users, not be an abusive operator.08:49
Ken-YoungMiXu-, I was hoping it was possible to tell the OS not to change the CPU speed at all.08:49
crashanddieStskeeps: and abusive have I been?08:49
crashanddielike, immediately?08:50
crashanddieI know I've been abusive previously, which is why I told the guy not to tell me what to do08:50
Ken-YoungMiXu-, But thanks for the info.08:50
Stskeepscrashanddie: it seemed more like a threat.08:50
Stskeepswell then.08:51
MiXu-Ken-Young: the last time I tried the setting was not respected. Eg. I was able to set cpu to 125MHz but when load increased, it goues up.08:51
crashanddiemore like a sign "Rocks may fall off cliff"08:51
Ken-YoungMiXu-, OK, that's what I needed to know.08:51
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rmrfchikhey ya08:55
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Surfacrashanddie, ok? should i be worried or what now?09:09
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Surfai just can't see how it's reasonable to talk about cheese and sausages at the same time if you want to keep the conversation in hands09:10
timelessanyone here have time to install a web server on :80 on their n900?09:12
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crashanddietimeless: what does the port have to do with the installation time?09:13
crashanddieSurfa: my point was only that the discussions in #maemo are seriously broad, I don't recall anyone being removed for being off-topic to be honest. Saying that "tablets didn't work last time" is a narrow-minded and stupid statement, especially considering that you're in #maemo, which is a channel that has been promoting tablets for the past 5 years09:15
timelesscrashanddie: there shoudl be a hard coded hack which is aware of only well, the default portd09:15
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timelesscrashanddie: tmee is that i'm in  ahurry to leave for a while09:17
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timelessand won't be back until sunday and then only for a bit09:17
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SpeedEvilwhy MiXu- IIRC setting max_cpu_goverfnor_speed or something in /sys worked09:17
SpeedEviltimeless, wave.09:17
timeless? hi?09:18
SpeedEvilerrordeveloper, you said you were leaving.09:18
SpeedEvil err,09:19
stuffworkguys anyone tried that extra decoder application, it still doesnt play flv after installation in mplayer.09:19
crashanddietimeless: just opened a socket on 80 in python09:19
crashanddietimeless: no problems09:19
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timelesscrashanddie: go offline, disable autoconnect (change to prompt)09:20
timelessclose the web browser. open it and try to load http://localhost/09:20
Surfacrashanddie, ok, so you just have missed the whole point of my line :)09:20
timeless(probally best to have your python script print: 200 OK\r\n\\rnhi or somethingo09:21
* timeless is typing on a high latency link09:21
timelessbasically: does the web browser actually prompt you for a network? or does it just load the page?09:21
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stuffworkand i tried to install grease monkey webaddon that didnt work either.09:23
stuffworkit didnt appear in browser addon at all09:23
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stuffworkeven though it clearly shows installed in application manager09:24
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timelessfile a bug against the greasemonkey packager09:27
stuffworkwhat about extra decoders then09:27
timelessit's 9:30am for some people, and it's the middle of the night for others?09:28
timelessit's 8:30am here09:28
timelessand i want to go be a tourist09:28
crashanddietimeless: yup, got the GET / HTTP 1.109:28
crashanddietimeless: with wifi and 3g disconnected09:28
crashanddietimeless: it's 16:40 here09:29
crashanddieerr, 16:3009:30
crashanddiewant me to pastebin it?09:30
timelessnah, if you want to comment in 1767 indicating that it works that's ok09:30
timelessqgil is slightly confused and could be straightened out (w/ effort)09:31
crashanddiebug #176709:31
povbotBug Not able to connect to "localhost" while offline/disconnected09:31
stuffworkthis sucks n900 is awesome but it lacks features, cant even video call using skype or gtlk and there is no msn messnger either officialy from nokia wtf!!!!09:31
stuffworkno news about next fw or its features.09:31
Surfathat's why we have open source09:32
Surfayou're free and encouraged to contribute09:32
stuffworki know no jack about programmin09:32
crashanddiestuffwork: MSN messenger is proprietary protocol09:33
crashanddiestuffwork: the reason Skype works is because Skype provided the implementation on the N900/n8x009:33
crashanddieand the reason GTalk works is because it's an open protocol (jabber)09:33
crashanddieget MSN to publish their protocol specifications, and you'll have your client09:34
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timelessvideo call is coming in 1.209:34
timelesswhich is being tested /now/09:34
Surfa..or just use plugins that are in repos..09:34
Surfaor amsn or whatever09:34
Tobarjatimeless: i just stepped in so i might have missed it, but 1.2 of what?09:35
stuffworknow that is a good news, ain it ..... finally something to look forward to.09:35
SurfaTobarja, pr1.2 for n90009:35
timelessdid you miss the part where i said i want to play tourist?09:35
timeless*my n900 is alarming now)09:35
Stskeepshave fun09:35
Surfatimeless, it's time to be offline as it happens09:36
Surfathere must be switch that turns off your network connection :P09:36
openstandardsstuffwork, msn = evil protocol and theres 3 different ways of handling msn on the n90009:37
stuffworkthe reason im not using repo sw cuz what if they got some stupid command hidden to copy all yr info and send to creators email address or keylogger stuff such as for msn and next thing u know yr effed.09:37
Stskeeps.. :P09:38
openstandardsits now the 2nd not the 1st may i point that out09:38
Stskeeps1st april, too09:38
Surfastuffwork, :D perhaps n900 is totally wrong device for you then?09:38
pgasmaybe his n900 shows him the wrong date too09:39
openstandardssounds like he'd be better off with a windows mobile device09:39
Stskeepsstuffwork: same kind of problem with any software, at some point you just have to trust it09:40
openstandardsif he wants msn that badly then a microsoft product would be better09:40
Surfabut you can run 3rd party programs on winmo devices too?09:40
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openstandardsSurfa, clearly doesn't care about running other stuff...09:40
Surfasure, but i thought that some rich feature phone would be better :)09:41
Surfawith no practical possibilities to run anything outside the box09:41
openstandardsSurfa, why not i'm sure winmo has some sort of sdk to it09:42
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Surfamm yes, but i thought that opposite was desired?09:43
openstandardswhat do you mean?09:43
crashanddietimeless: updated bug #176709:43
povbotBug Not able to connect to "localhost" while offline/disconnected09:43
Surfanever mind09:44
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bullet`this web base client seems nice09:44
crashanddiestuffwork: you do realise that there is a QA process, and that most software is open source, right?09:45
stuffworknope i didnt know that, but qa panel consist of nokia officially appointed members or just community fellas.09:47
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crashanddiecommunity "members"09:47
stuffworkthats sucks hard then .... doent it09:48
crashanddiestuffwork: put your N900 on eBay, you'll get a decent price for it. Next time, do some research before buying something. Stop moaning, too09:48
Surfastuffwork, you do understand that people doing that on their personal time do actually better work there than overburdened engineers from a global company?09:49
Surfait's just do you get someone there to do it without paying09:49
Surfamost of the time :)09:50
SpeedEvilother times you get cod explosions.09:50
SpeedEvilcode explosions.09:50
crashanddieSurfa: hardly, really09:50
Surfathat's rare, but do you think that company engineers would have spotted it any better?09:50
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crashanddieSurfa: it's more common in OS projects to have very loosely defined guidelines and absolutely no general architecture documents, meaning that QA's role is very hard to complete, and sloppy programming gets more and more common as devs have to interpret their own views/ideas.09:51
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crashanddiesure, it can happen that other developers go back and fix it, but that's more of an exception than a rule09:52
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Surfayou don't quality with documents and guidelines, it's about experienced people doing the work with enough time available09:52
crashanddieactually, you do.09:53
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Surfaactually you don't09:53
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Surfaof course you do get better quality if people aren't qualified to do what they are supposed to09:54
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Surfathen checkbox type of qa is better than nothing09:54
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crashanddiefunny that the most vocal contenders of proper engineering are those who can only reply by a != b, and not actually articulate their ideas in anything more than a 5 word sentence ;)09:56
crashanddiebonus points for those who got the movie reference.09:56
Surfaand other side is those people writing 30+ words lines with personal insults, but it's only kind of pathetic09:56
SpeedEvil_proper software engineering - of large projects - requires that anyone can be hit by a bus without destroyhing the project.09:57
SpeedEvil_this brings in commenting, code standards, ... requirements09:57
Surfalengths of the lines don't give any more information, typically just make senteces too complicated and typically they are used to hide something09:57
SurfaSpeedEvil_, qa of course includes a lot of other things than coding practices :)09:58
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Surfaor at least it should09:58
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crashanddieSurfa: definitely, QA isn't anything about coding practices10:07
crashanddieSurfa: in my mind, QA shouldn't even be looking at the code, realistically10:07
crashanddieQA should be looking at the specifications, and test the software at hand to make sure it matches those specifications10:08
cehtehwell a secondary look what ill workarounds make the tests pass would be nice sometimes :P10:08
cehtehbesides well written and documented code is a cornerstone for maintainable and thus quality code10:09
crashanddieSaid specifications come in different flavours, shapes and forms, but in Maemo's case, they would be making sure that a specific piece of software doesn't drain the battery, prevent base features to work, or do anything that may violate privacy, UI controls etc. That is what I call the "base contract". In addition to this, there should also be what the program aims to achieve.10:10
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SpeedEvilthe camera violates this! It sometimes shows my shadow. Fix pls.10:13
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marmouteSpeedEvil: and it drain the battery10:15
* SpeedEvil sighs.10:16
SpeedEvilI should code some shit. I need to get up the energy though.10:17
SpeedEvilI want to split the flashlight led out into the LED driver too.10:17
Surfaqa should use all possible methods to improve quality10:18
SpeedEvilso flashlight does not need v4l open.10:18
Surfaqa should be process throughout the dev from design to testing10:18
SpeedEvilSurfa: shooting bad coders?10:18
Surfafor example :)10:19
Surfaand test engineers too10:19
Surfathey are equally important10:19
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Surfai think qa is often misinterpreted and used as a synonym to testing10:20
SpeedEvilSpecifying what processes must be can also kill a project.10:20
Surfaand make them inefficient10:20
SpeedEvilIf it puts off enough coder that you don't have a viable commjunity.10:20
Surfawhat is nowadays perhaps biggest problem in sw programs10:21
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SpeedEvilIs there a hack to open youtube urls in zoutube?10:22
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pupnikSpeedEvil: try just the yourube code in search10:24
SpeedEvilI'd say the biggest problem is overabstraction.10:24
SpeedEvilcode reuse is great!!!!!!!!!10:24
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pupniknot the full url10:24
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SpeedEvilSo I'll just add this 18megabyte library nothing else on the system uses, rather than write 20 lines.10:25
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SpeedEviland of course that lib drags in 14 others and blender.10:25
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talmaiHello maemo people! Any news on that homedir issue? Is it already possible to commit packages to extras repository?10:29
Stskeepswhat homedir issue?10:29
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pupnikthat was a funny user up there10:33
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Arkenoiis there a way to switch theme fast via command line? say, i have high contrast theme and i want to activate it if there is enough light via script10:35
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JaffaMorning, all10:54
Stskeepsmorn jaffa10:55
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X-Fadetalmai: Can you try if it is working for you now? The issue should have been fixed yesterday.10:58
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crashanddieyo Jaffa11:09
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madduckis there really no proper open-source syncml server for linux?11:13
madducki am not talking about this 170M funambol binary blob with source11:13
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MiXu-SpeedEvil: Oh, ok. They must have changed it then at some point. (max_cpu_governor_speed)11:28
SpeedEvildon't recall exact name11:28
pupnikStskeeps: any interest in doing a quick talk at debconf, berlin on mer, maemo, meego and your overview of the portable oses?11:28
MiXu-I know the one you mean :)11:29
MiXu-But it's still a bad idea for an app to change that. :)11:29
Stskeepspupnik: 'berlin'? it's in US this time11:29
pupnikminidebconf at end of linuxtag11:31
Veggenmmm...can you find a cleartext wpa2 key  somewhere?11:31
Veggenmy n900 supported wps, my ubuntu laptop didn't, at least not in a simple way.11:32
pupniki know some debianisti who were asking about it Stskeeps11:32
Veggenso I thought just to dig out the key.11:32
Stskeepspupnik: i'm a little worried about rotten tomatoes when i say that the rpm tools actually help11:32
Jaffacrashanddie: thanks for the git repo11:33
pupnikStskeeps: well i know one of the linuxtag muftis and i think the topic of #mer should be part of it.  if i can help lemme know11:35
Stskeepspupnik: Mer's a bit of a dead end in terms of mobile platforms at the moment.11:35
pupnika good time to get ppl thinking and talking perhaps11:36
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Stskeepsi'll keep it in mind, berlin is just a train trip from warsaw, so11:37
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pupnik"this project is inactive and heres why"11:37
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cehtehMerGo :)11:44
cehtehWell it would be great when Mer dies for a reason .. that is MeeGo will be really free and make it not necessary to have an alternative .. but prolly hell freezes over before we see that11:45
talmaiX-Fade: no, it's not working, i still get the "Permission denied (publickey)." error11:46
Stskeepscehteh: for all purposes, MeeGo is exactly same goals11:47
cehtehlets see if it hits the target :)11:48
DocScrutinizer(<SpeedEvil> code reuse is great!!!!!!!!!)  libboost11:49
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X-Fadetalmai: ok, let me try one thing. Just a moment.11:52
X-Fadetalmai: Ok, can you try now?11:53
rmrfchikI wonder, why LED didn't show me that battery is charging?11:54
talmaiX-Fade: same error11:55
X-Fadetalmai: and now?11:57
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talmaidoes not work11:58
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X-Fadetalmai: I do not see a connection now, did see your last 2 attempts.11:59
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talmaiIt just wont work, and I'm 100% sure that the key in account settings is identical to I use12:06
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X-Fadetalmai: I found the issue, key export script sets incorrect rights.12:09
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crashanddiermrfchik: sometimes it doesn't work, unplug and plug-in again12:17
crashanddietalmai: what files do you have in ~/.ssh?12:18
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crashanddietalmai: make sure you didn't copy rather than id_rsa.pub12:19
talmaiid_rsa  known_hosts12:19
X-Fadetalmai: The issue is at our end.12:20
X-Fadetalmai: Don't mess up your config at your end while trying to debug ;)12:20
talmaiok, i'm not touching it until said otherwise :)12:21
crashanddietalmai: echo 0 > ~/.ssh/id_rsa12:21
* X-Fade slaps crashanddie 12:21
crashanddie(don't do that)12:21
* crashanddie throws Lachende Paus at X-Fade 12:21
talmaihaha, reminds me of old times on IRC, giving bad advices with rm command to n00bs :D12:22
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crashanddieit's even funnier when you do it on #ubuntu12:24
crashanddiebut you actually help them, then give them completely wrong commands12:24
kynkythe whole /join #2,000 was funny years ago too12:24
crashanddiethere's still the DCC SEND one12:24
SpeedEvilrunning ff remotely over x is good12:24
crashanddieSpeedEvil: it is?12:25
SpeedEvilbut it doesn't half drain baw12:25
kynkyrun ff over xvfb ?12:25
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: yes.12:25
SpeedEvilssh -X lily firefox -no-remote12:26
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kynkyi use nx for all my remote X needs12:26
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crashanddieJesus is amongst a crowd, and the crowd is stoning a poor woman12:28
crashanddieJesus stops the angry mob, and tries to calm them down by yelling: "That those who have never sinned throw the first stone"12:28
crashanddieAnd a bunch of stones come flying12:28
crashanddieJesus turns around to see who's throwing the stones, and says: "Mum, you're really starting piss me off..."12:29
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X-Fadetalmai: Can you try again?12:36
talmaistill not working12:40
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bigonhi, is there any doc on the values returned by Phone.Net.get_registration_status dbus call?12:40
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crashanddieX-Fade: what's the issue?12:50
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sECuREsay, if i want to compile for an n900, i need to use an old version of a lot of packages (i use fremantle/sdk). is there an easy way to add a pinning to apt for the versions necessary for the n900 of *all* packages?13:00
sECuREat the moment i pinned the necessary packages for my application manually, but there should be a better way, right?13:00
* DocScrutinizer sighs13:01
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crashanddiesECuRE: "pinning"13:04
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sECuREcrashanddie: as i said, i pinned them. but i did not have a nice way to pin them, other than by their specific version13:05
sECuREcrashanddie: what i would like is something like release=n90013:06
crashanddiepinning? wtf is pinning?13:06
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sECuREpinning means to tell apt to use a specific version of the available debian packages13:07
infoboti heard pinning is 'man apt_preferences', or add testing and unstable lines to sources.list, create /etc/apt/preferences containing "Package: *\nPin: release a=testing\nPin-Priority: 900\n\nPackage: *\nPin: release o=Debian\nPin-Priority: -10\n", then apt-get install foo/unstable, or at, or read
sECuREbut instead of using it for testing/unstable/…, i would like to pin the n900 versions of all packages13:07
DocScrutinizerrelease=N900 won't work though, as the new pkgs in conflict are for N900 as well ;-P13:08
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* DocScrutinizer is begging Nokia not to break API ever again, without proper new repos13:09
sECuREso it is a known unsolved problem?13:09
DocScrutinizerit's called 1.213:10
sECuRE1.2 of what exactly?13:10
Arkenoiso p1.2 was said to be out within q1 and now it is already behind the date?13:10
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noobmonk3yArkenklo, who said q1?13:10
noobmonk3ydamn auto tabbing13:11
* DocScrutinizer suggests intelligent autocompletion tabbing, by sorting priority of used completions on a most recently used base13:12
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DocScrutinizerof course in whole channel text13:13
DocScrutinizerand of course excluding own nick13:14
sECuREsorry to ask again, but version 1.2 of what did you mean?13:14
DocScrutinizerof N900 "firmware"13:15
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noobmonk3ysECuRE, PR 1.2 - version 1.2 of the maemo OS13:15
sECuREisn’t the n900 firmware called maemo 5 or do you mean something different?13:15
noobmonk3yie n900 frimware ;) as DocScrutinizer  said ;)13:15
DocScrutinizerit's in SDK but not on the devices yet, and it breaks the whole thing for prety much everybody13:15
noobmonk3yyup but it still has versions :D13:16
sECuREah, i get it, thanks13:16
MohammadAGI installed gcc-4.2 yesterday, optified and all, but it's either 1. not working or 2. not in my $PATH13:17
DocScrutinizerthough the real bugger isn't the SDK, you have control over that in the end. It's the autobuilder on buildhost that doesn't know how to build pkgs for 1.1.1 aiui13:18
sECuREurghs, ok13:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I'd not so much surprised optification failed for gcc13:19
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DocScrutinizersECuRE: so if you bother to upload a new version of your pkg * to buildhost, you'd damn sure better rename it to *-1.2 otherwise kill your 'old' pkg for all users13:21
sECuREyep, thanks for the hint13:21
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sECuREdifferent question: in the emulator, which key do i need to use to get a 'return' in the x terminal?13:21
sECuREit worked using ctrl+return before, but it doesn’t work now (cursor just blinks once)13:22
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sECuREah, if i press the ctrl button using the mouse, it works13:23
sECuREstrange though13:23
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pupnikin vmware sECuRE ?13:24
lbtany reson <nowiki> doesn't work on the maemo wik ?13:24
sECuREpupnik: yes13:24
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, expected you'd say that13:27
bigonmmm is GPS_DEVICE_STATUS_NO_FIX supposed to work with location python binding?13:27
MohammadAGmy current workaround for compiling something when i'm not home is ssh13:27
MohammadAGslow, but it works13:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: :-P13:27
bigonbecause it seems it's not set even if it has not the fix yet (it returns the last known location and used sat is 0)13:27
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pupniksECuRE: vmplayer gives me all  kinds of problems with usb keyboard.  for e.g. numblock is a.ways active,  cannot type in vmware window - need to ssh-in to sdk13:29
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DocScrutinizerbigon: I heard it's not13:29
pupnikeither that or i run the vmware player in vnc13:29
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DocScrutinizerbigon: (dunno about the 'supposed' bit though) use horizontal precision to determine if the location is 'good enough'13:30
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sECuREpupnik: i’m not using an usb keyboard. and inside the vm it works normal, just not in the xephyr running the emulator inside the vm13:31
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bigonDocScrutinizer: well the documentation talk about GPS_DEVICE_STATUS_NO_FIX (which is not working) but GPS_DEVICE_STATUS_FIX seems to work...13:32
bigonnot sure why both exists13:32
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DocScrutinizerbigon: I'd guess it is related to the 5 some different types of location reporting modes you can select liblocation use (cell, gps, any, assisted-*)13:34
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DocScrutinizerbigon: the behaviour to report last known good location is described there13:35
bigonyeah I know but I want the real position13:35
bigonso I'm not sure what's correct13:35
sECuREhm, how comes i get the message from gobject: 'invalid cast from econtact to OssoABookContact' but OssoABookContact inherits from EContact?13:35
DocScrutinizer(mompls, still searching the wikipage)13:36
DocScrutinizerLOCATION_METHOD_AGNSS - Assisted Global Navigation Satellite System13:37
DocScrutinizeror LOCATION_METHOD_GNSS - Global Navigation Satellite System | LOCATION_METHOD_AGNSS - Assisted Global Navigation Satellite System13:37
bigonDocScrutinizer: horizontal precision should be bad if it's not the real position?13:38
DocScrutinizerI'd guess yes, unless it's totally broken13:38
bigonany idea who's working on py-location so I can ask13:39
DocScrutinizerMethod CWP  Typ Accuracy 1km-1000km13:39
bigonthe accuracy will be for the last position13:40
bigonI guess?13:41
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DocScrutinizerAn application receiving a fix cannot know if the fix is a result from location method it requested. Therefore application should study whether fix is accurate enough to satisfy application's needs.13:41
bigonyep and bellow13:42
bigonLiblocation sends a "changed" signal also after locationing is started or stopped, in which case a last known fix is sent if such exists. Application can differentiate these fixes from real ones by inspecting device->status field which equals LOCATION_GPS_DEVICE_STATUS_NO_FIX if the fix is not real.13:42
DocScrutinizeryou say this doesn't work?13:43
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bigonright, my real question was if it's was a bug in the documentation or in the code (or the python binding)13:44
DocScrutinizeranyway, file a ticket13:45
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bigonI will see if the accuracy can gives me the information I want13:45
DocScrutinizerbigon: please don't forget to open a bugtracker ticket so the issue gets sorted eventually :-)13:47
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SpeedEvilor find out, and fix the docs13:48
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pupnikso is qt reasonably fast versus hildon/gtk?14:00
pupnikcool ty14:01
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MohammadAG~curse NVidia closed drivers14:15
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, NVidia closed drivers !14:15
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sylarpowahi, I want to join the GSOC with a project on the n900, so what I have to do to make my proposal?14:19
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Arif_why isn't pr1.2 out yet14:25
MohammadAGArif_, to make you suffer14:25
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povbotBug 9824: GPS_DEVICE_STATUS_NO_FIX is never set14:26
Arif_today's a holiday anyway14:26
Arif_can't be released14:26
Arif_wormux got an updat14:27
haltdefI don't need pr1.2, already been blown away14:27
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Arif_you're easily pleased :P14:27
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haltdefwhat's wrong with 1.1 exactly?14:28
threshphone being unusable after 6 days of uptime?14:29
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Arif_the user experience sucks?14:29
haltdefonly had it 4 days, and as a user I've had a good experience14:29
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MohammadAGArif_, UI sucks?14:29
Arif_that too14:29
MohammadAGArif_, :/14:29
haltdefwill 1.2 fix all of that?14:30
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Arif_no ;(14:30
MohammadAGcause it doesn't suck14:30
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MohammadAGif it's not broken don't fix it14:30
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DocScrutinizerArif_: (why isn't pr1.2 out yet) because each time you ask aout 1.2 they postpone it another 3 days to make you angry14:35
Arif_I only get angry whent he media player decides to not work again :(14:35
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ea_suterhi folks14:35
DocScrutinizerthresh: not here14:36
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threshDocScrutinizer: it starts to swap out a lot14:40
threshsuppose something is leaking.. like desktop?14:40
DocScrutinizerthresh: that seems to be caused by other processes, not exactly phone-related ones. Seen browser to cause that, esp when using flash14:41
threshDocScrutinizer: i'm not running browser all the time14:41
DocScrutinizeralso desktop widget unknown comes to mind14:42
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uhsfhow to type a | vertical bar on a n900?14:42
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uhsfthat means the onscreen virtual keyboard?14:44
pupniki pray the next nokia linux phone has competitive battery life14:45
DocScrutinizerunless you remap the hw-keys14:45
DocScrutinizerpupnik: sure, they simply prohibit multitasking :-P14:46
uhsfusb networking works with my notebook but not with my workstation. what configuration files should i try to edit so it works?14:46
ShadowJKmy battery is at 50% and bq27200 says I'd get 2400 minutes standby if I closed xchat and internets :p14:47
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DocScrutinizerthat's fair enough, no?14:48
ShadowJKand 54 minutes at maximum load :D14:48
lcukn900shadow, with screen on?14:48
ShadowJKno standby is screen off14:49
lcukn900what are you running to drop battery that fast?14:49
* lcukn900 kicks virgins ass14:50
ShadowJKThe battery gas gauge chip has some preprogrammed info for maximum load, and it also has some heuristics to adapt in case user finds way to use more power than nokia engineers anticipated14:51
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DocScrutinizerlcukn900: the 27200 reports calculated time-to-empty for max-load it seen. So this might be a transient caused by e.g massive UMTS-data traffic14:51
ShadowJKa 5.12 second long transient14:52
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DocScrutinizeraverage over a window of that length, to be exact14:53
ShadowJKit's such a round number I suspect I've never managed to use that much14:53
lcukn900ahh doc so ive seen something like that in the past.  getting the battery dying death rolls, then still being able to continue for hours after changing use profile14:53
ShadowJKmaybe I need screen at full brightness, bluetpoth wlan and hspa all active and transmitting, fm tx and rx all active, etc14:53
lcukn900bluetooth too and a big disk copy as well14:54
DocScrutinizerfm rx/tx won't cost much, as does BT. CPU load cost a lot though14:54
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DocScrutinizerCPU, screen backlight, and Modem TX being worst powerhogs14:55
DocScrutinizerand speakers on high volume14:55
* lcukn900 is saddened by lack of internet again14:55
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ShadowJKI've seen bt at 150mA on n81014:56
DocScrutinizerduh, hefty14:57
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ShadowJKbut that's a "bug" condition that fixed itself with bt on/off cycle14:57
ShadowJK(then the nokia phone i tethered to ate that much extra instead)14:58
ShadowJKgotta love bt14:58
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ShadowJKlcukn900, n900 tethers nicely ;)15:02
* SpeedEvil is very glad of screen protector.15:02
SpeedEvilputting seccateurs in wrong pocket + hour of digging, bending down and up.15:02
* ShadowJK has the 3M vikuiti one now15:02
SpeedEvilthing  is damn near opaque.15:02
SpeedEvilProdigy - invaders must die - is a bad album to do manual labour to, unless you want to end up wrecked.15:02
lcukn900shadowjk only to my linux box.  not to my gateway machine with all my irc and secure stuff15:03
ShadowJKgateway machine: route del default; route add default gw linuxbox15:04
ShadowJKlinuxbox: echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward15:04
SpeedEvilShadowJK: are you putting results of this in wiki somewhere?15:04
ShadowJKiptables -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE15:04
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, not really15:04
ShadowJKThere was someone else on tmo's N900 forum that was talking to bq27200 through the kernel driver15:05
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SpeedEvilpower peaks I think may be over 5w15:05
ShadowJKI posted my intial impressions there15:05
SpeedEvilwith it all going15:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: easily15:06
bigonis liblocation opensource?15:06
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game_overcan somebody help me with the ssh key for uploading ? do i need to copy everything from the  ?15:06
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: modems usually rated at 2A@3.5V15:07
DocScrutinizerthat's peak though15:08
DocScrutinizerbut GPRS should create a quite sustained power consumption like that, on highest bandwidth15:08
ShadowJKhspa seems to create more sustained power consumption15:09
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DocScrutinizerI'm subsumming all cellphone data transfer under GPRS here15:10
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ShadowJKper byte edge uses more of course ;p15:10
SpeedEvilalso - turning powersave off on wlan wants huge amounts.15:10
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SpeedEvilnot-of-course huge compared...,  but quite large15:10
DocScrutinizerI heard of a guy literally melting his motorola phone by doing filesharing all during the night15:10
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, all my nokias have survived that :)15:11
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: decent modem chips reduce datarate by dropping slots, on overtemp15:12
marmouteDocScrutinizer: I spend a night rsync my music directory over 3G no issue15:12
ShadowJKdownloading at ~20kbyte/s on edge: 250-30015:12
* ShadowJK switches to 3g15:13
DocScrutinizeralso I'm not sure if that's a true story, though the guy swore it happened to him15:13
pupnikcheap home tablet for 50pounds
DocScrutinizerbtw that was a WCDMA phone15:13
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ShadowJK~450mA downloading on hspa... 3Mbit/s or so15:14
pupniktotal drain ShadowJK ?15:15
ShadowJKoh now it has updated max load to 685mA ;p15:15
* lcukx200 chceks virgin status15:15
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lcukx200checks too15:15
* Arif_ yawns15:15
pupnikhow do you monitor current battery drain?15:16
Arif_I want a 3Mb connection too...15:16
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ShadowJKhm... gpodder seems to have downloaded a bunch of html instead of videos :/15:18
Arif_ascii videos? =P15:18
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: upload will suck considerably more power than download15:19
SpeedEvil'show me your "o" face'15:19
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ShadowJKoh right, youtube has broken all third party youtube apps15:22
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styleIs there somewhere tutorials for maemo developement (written in python)15:23
iksaifdo you think a python gpx library and a pyqt gpx viewer would be an acceptable gsoc for meego/maemo (I know, there is eCoach, but a python gpx library would be great)15:24
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Backtrackhi all.15:29
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Backtrackone question people... i need to extract the image from maemo firmware file (vanilla etc.bin) can you help  me???15:30
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Backtrackpeople i need some help15:31
Backtrackone question people... i need to extract the image from maemo firmware file (vanilla etc.bin) can you help  me???15:31
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DocScrutinizerBacktrack: please try to study netiquette first15:34
Backtrackdoc i did... :)15:35
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DocScrutinizerso, was there written "enter irc chan and repost your question every 60 seconds" ?15:35
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Backtrackdocs i dont care what u think goodbye and have a nice day15:37
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Arif_why don't you all just use /cs kick15:39
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Arif_it's faster :D15:39
nidOguess he didnt notice15:39
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DocScrutinizerabuse? he said goodbye ;-P15:39
crashanddie22:39 <crashanddie> kick #maemo Arif_15:39
crashanddie22:39 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- Invalid command. Use /msg ChanServ help for a command listing.15:39
crashanddiethat's why15:40
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crashanddiethis isn't efnet15:40
Arif_efnet doesn't have services15:40
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crashanddiequakenet then15:40
nidOefnet has no chanserv15:40
crashanddieor undernet15:40
nidOyou mean quakenet15:40
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Arif_efnet has chanfix though \o/15:41
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crashanddiedon't be a smartass unless you're right15:42
Arif_don't blame me for features not working here :(15:43
DocScrutinizersmartass implies to be right XP15:44
DocScrutinizerotherwise != smart15:44
crashanddieArif_: it's not a feature, it caused more abuse than anything15:44
bigonis liblocation opensource? I can't find where to download the sources15:44
Stskeepsbigon: no15:44
DocScrutinizerbigon: that's why the ticket was double important15:45
JaffaGAN900: ping15:45
JaffaOr, anyone else, what's the MediaWiki syntax for a link which goes below a title and says "Main article: ..."?15:45
bigonDocScrutinizer: I open it for the pymaemo component15:47
bigonas A15:47
bigonas I did'nt try with the C version15:47
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DocScrutinizerbigon: so odds are the python bindings are introducing the problem15:48
jatthi I'm running emacs on the n900 but only one thing is not working, gnus requires starttls to send mail, does anybody know where can I find a starttls package?15:50
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kynkydebian repo ?15:53
lcukmorning dneary15:53
dnearylcuk: You in the states?15:53
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lcukno dneary :) you just arrived and its holidays :p15:54
lcukx200which damn machine am i using :*15:54
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crashanddielcuk: where you at?15:57
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lcukbut virgin have been shit this morning15:57
lcukso i connected from 3g and stuff all my machines started binging once it came back15:58
nidOvirgin were having lots of problems yesterday too15:58
dnearylcuk, Not holidays here15:58
lcukahhh dneary15:58
dnearyI just rebooted & hadn't restarted IRC15:58
crashanddiedneary: easter is fucked up in france15:58
dnearycrashanddie, Nah. Easter is a sucky holiday anyway15:58
crashanddiehey, 4 day weekend, doesn't suck from where I'm standing15:59
nidOstill only a 2 day weekend for me :(16:00
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bullet`hi all16:07
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bullet`its 2nd april now 1!16:08
bullet`how much more wait for 1.2 ?16:08
haltdef3 years16:08
dnearycrashanddie, Celebrating some guy faking his death?16:08
crashanddieIf religion did anything, it was give us excuses to give each other gifts and provide us with opportunities to get drunk and chill out16:10
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user`how do i enable the facebook widget?16:11
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viraptorbullet': it wil be right after perl6 and a bit before duke nukem forever16:13
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lcukhiya _bella_16:17
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V13hello... I want to add a screenshot in a program in maemo/Downloads but the "Edit" option is inactive. I'm the one who created/uploaded the program, I'm already logged in and I believe that I'm doing exactly the same thing I did with another program (where it worked).16:24
V13any ideas/hints ?16:24
msthokay. is there a sane way to flash just the root partition?16:24
mstI appear to have Upset the OS install but if I can hang onto /home/user it would make me happy16:25
V13yes... flasher16:25
mstwill that flatten the OS without touching address books etc.?16:25
V13when flashing you flash either the 256M rootfs or the internal mmc16:25
V13most of your options are under /homt16:25
V13 /home16:25
V13but you should also backup16:26
mstI have an old-ish backup. I've screwed it over enough I don't think I can manage to make another one.16:26
mstthis is, as they say, my own stupid fault.16:26
V13well... most probably it work16:27
V13...will work16:27
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V13why can't you make a backup ?16:27
jacekowski[Slashdot]  Intel and Nokia Provide First MeeGo Release (linux) -
Arif_is that the fancy cli version?16:28
mstV13: because I've upset it sufficiently I can't manage to get it into PC Suite mode16:28
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mstV13: X doesn't appear to be coming up properly16:29
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RurouniJoneshmmm, they mention N900 in the slashdot article16:29
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V13well.. you could enable r&d mode before flashing16:29
V13just to be able to get a shell16:29
V13(haven't done this myself)16:29
mstwhat am I googling to try that?16:30
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jacekowskiRurouniJones: there is n900 image avaliable16:31
RurouniJonesso anyone brave enough to install meegoin their n900?16:31
mstV13: hmm. I think I already put mine into that mode16:31
jacekowskimst: that kills power managment16:31
jacekowskimst: a lot of it16:32
V13mst: I guess it should give you a shell when it starts16:32
mstI'm not that lucky.16:32
crashanddiejacekowski: shame bunch of those comments are misinformed16:32
crashanddieRurouniJones: you can install meego on the n90016:32
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mstjacekowski: I dunno, it's blue pill'ed16:32
jacekowskicrashanddie: that was info from wiki16:32
mstmostly I just need to flatten the / partition16:33
crashanddiejacekowski: what was?16:33
mstsince I attempted to update the system, it ran out of space on /, and everything went downhill from there16:33
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jacekowskicrashanddie: thatone of r&d options breaks power management16:33
crashanddiejacekowski: so? why are you telling me that?16:34
jacekowskiNote: As R&D mode has other side effects beyond simply enabling root access (including several that may negatively impact battery life), it is not the recommended method for gaining root access. Use rootsh instead.16:34
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V13hey guys.. he can't boot.16:34
crashanddiejacekowski: I was just saying that it's a shame a lot of the comments on the slashdot story are misinformed16:34
crashanddiesorry, should have specified16:35
jacekowskicrashanddie: any specific one16:36
crashanddiejacekowski: rpm vs deb16:36
jacekowskimsi ftw16:36
crashanddielol, aye16:36
crashanddielet's dump this linux crap16:37
crashanddieI want WinCE on my N90016:37
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jacekowskii would really like to get serial port on n90016:37
jacekowskilike i had on iphone16:37
jacekowskiit was very usefull for testing modbus devices16:38
V13so, any ideas on how to add a screenshot to a project ?16:41
msthrm. image list is showing a 1.2009 and a 3.201016:41
V133.2010 ?16:41
V13ah.. yes.. 1.1.116:42
mstRX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8.203.1_PR_COMBINED_203_ARM.bin 171136705 PR 1.1.1 version 3.2010.02-816:42
mstI guess I'm safer getting the 2009 one and upgrading once it's happy again?16:42
V13i'd go for 1.1.116:42
V13if it fails, rollback to 1.016:42
nidOyou're better still getting the global variant16:42
nidOnot uk16:42
V13or 1.116:42
Treibholzhas anyone tried to write something like a CalDAV-Connector for the calendar?16:42
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V13be sure to use the rootfs image only16:43
V13btw, if you plug n900 with usb when it is turned off, you may be able to see your files16:43
V13just in case.16:43
mstthese all appear to be "combined"16:43
ShadowJKOh fuckers16:43
ShadowJKMugen put a thermistor on BSI instead of a resistor16:43
mstV13: I've already backed up the stuff in MyDocs that way, but thanks16:43
nidOthey wat.16:44
mstV13: I guess "combined" means I have to tell the flasher to only flash / ?16:44
nidOwhy the hell did they do that16:44
ShadowJKso battery design capacity as reported by bme will vary depending on the battery temperature at boot :)16:44
V13mst: dunno16:44
ShadowJKnidO, fuck knows :)16:44
mstnidO: why global rather than UK?16:44
nidObecause nokia struggle to remember the uk exists16:45
nidOand generally gets updates anytime between ages after the rest of the world, and never16:45
ShadowJKbecause the UK variant is made by a team that doesn't exist, since they don't exist they can be pretty slow at updating it16:45
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* mst grabs the global release16:47
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mstflasher can unpack a fiasco image and then install bits separately16:49
mstso ... if I unpack the kernel and rootfs16:49
mstthen splat those over onto the device16:49
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mstthat should, in theory, give me an unf*cked n90016:49
V13it is possible to only flash the rootfs... I did it the 2nd day i got n900 because I bricked it :)16:49
V13don't remember how exactly but it is the first thing you'll do so you can't miss it16:50
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mstV13: right, but my phone is presumably a 1.0 UK so a 1.1.1 global image I probably want to do the kernel as well, no?16:50
V13i believe it does it altogether.16:50
V13don't remember16:50
mstI do like the fact that nokia have clearly expected people like us to do stupid things to our phones and brick them :)16:51
nidOit does16:51
nidOyou just need the firmware image16:51
nidOthat unbricks the device and reflashes it entirely16:51
nidOwithout touching the emmc16:51
mstright. I'm trying to keep /home/user intact as well though16:51
nidOhome/user or /home/user/MyDocs?16:51
mstMyDocs I have backed up; there's a few files of notes in /home/user/ I'd like to keep16:52
nidOi didnt really see the start of this, is your phone bricked atm then to prevent you just moving them?16:52
mstnidO: it somewhat boots but not sufficiently for me to get an xterm16:53
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pupnikdont mean to be a pest but can someone tell me what to search for to get current battery consumption on n900?16:53
mstI attempted to apt some stuff onto it, filled /, tried to clean up after myself, screwed up somewhere16:54
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MohammadAG_/home/user, /home/user/MyDocs, and /opt are only cleared by flashing the eMMC16:54
nidOthe firmware flash keeps /home/user as well?16:54
MohammadAG_(or till the next firmware is released, should start clearing /home and /opt when a reflash is done)16:54
MohammadAG_nidO, yes, config files and the like are kept16:55
MohammadAG_My XChat settings stay, as well as logs16:55
nidOyeah does it just internally backup and restore config files it knows are there though, or will it keep the entire folder?16:55
MohammadAG_do a backup to be sure, but I reflashed three times yesterday16:55
MohammadAG_nidO, it won't touch it if you don't reflash the vanilla eMMC image16:56
mstah, the homedir is on the memory card?16:56
mstI can see that making total sense actually16:56
JaffaX-Fade: Are you following up with achipa's email failure; or do you want me to?16:56
mstthen MyDocs is just a FAT chunk of homedir?16:56
nidOI thought /home/user was on the rootfs and would get wiped16:56
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V13mst: the emmc has two partitions: A 2GB partition that holds /home and a 30GB partition that holds MyDocs16:57
ShadowJKand a third partition for swap16:58
nidOah yeah course it is16:58
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V13and the 30G is in fact 28G16:58
nidO/dev/mmcblk0p2            2.0G    239.2M      1.6G  13% /home16:58
V13it's 2G ext3, 28G vfat and 768M swap16:58
mgedmin28.3 GB or 27.0 GiB16:59
V13Jaffa: ping16:59
mgedminthe whole eMMC is 31.2 GB or 29.8 GiB16:59
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mstV13: RAH17:00
mstok. I like this design.17:00
mstit accomodates nicely for me being a complete idiot.17:00
mgedminI suppose the remaining 2.1 GiB are used for write leveling?17:00
mstI approve of this :)17:00
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mgedmindo flash memory chips come in powers of two?17:00
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* V13 thinks for a number of jokes for mgedmin's expression17:01
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* noobmonk3y waves17:03
nidOjust got up?17:03
V13so.. any help on uploading a screenshot for a project in maemo extras ?17:03
mgedminV13, log in17:03
MohammadAG_<mst> ah, the homedir is on the memory card?17:04
mgedminthen at the top of the page you'll see a floating midgard menu17:04
mgedminit's under Page -> Edit, I think17:04
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V13mgedmin: Yes... that's what I'm trying to do. By "Edit" is grayed17:04
MohammadAG_/home is on a 2GB partition on the eMMC, /opt is in home (/home/opt) and symlinked back to /opt17:04
noobmonk3ylol been out all day :D17:04
noobmonk3ycar cleaning17:04
V13mgedmin: And another project where I already did this and already has a screenshot, it doesn't work too.17:04
V13mgedmin: That's why i pinged Jaffa17:05
V13mgedmin: Or I'm doing something really stupid that I'm not aware of.17:05
mgedminit doesn't work for me either17:05
mgedminisn't it X-Fade's job to oversee the website?17:06
* MohammadAG_ hits noobmonk3y with a proximity mine17:06
V13mgedmin: Dunno :)17:06
nidOall day to clean a car?17:06
* noobmonk3y blinks17:06
V13X-Fade: ping17:06
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mgedmin --> "I'm the webmaster"17:07
b-man17 /ping  X-Fade17:07
V13b-man17: I'm betting on him using x-chat or another client that blinks when his nickname is mentioned :)17:07
MohammadAG_member since 1970?17:08
* noobmonk3y farts17:08
nidOgood old epoch timing17:09
* MohammadAG_ sees how noobmonk3y fills up the IRC logs with some weird stuff :P17:09
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noobmonk3yyup ;)17:09
mgedminah, attention-seekers17:09
* mgedmin hides17:09
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* noobmonk3y is gonna update another version of healthcheck into dev ..... nothing else to do17:10
* lcuk waves @ mgedmin 17:10
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nidOstart pushing to testing as well tbh17:11
* b-man17 listens to some music17:12
JaffaV13: Not tried it recently17:12
V13Jaffa: I thought you're the right one to contact for this. sorry.. it's X-Fade as mgedmin mentioned.17:13
MohammadAG_noobmonk3y, proximity included17:13
noobmonk3ynaaaa not yet - still focusing on menu bar and apps area17:13
* MohammadAG_ readies a quad barrel shotgun17:13
noobmonk3yits in my todo's :D17:13
* MohammadAG_ fires17:13
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MohammadAGFrozen bubble's good, why didn't I install it when I saw it in the repos17:15
noobmonk3yw000p uploaded17:15
JaffaV13: That's OK; glad to be thought of :-)17:15
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mstMohammadAG: ftw17:17
mstand there's active development on it again17:17
johnsu01oh, does it install now? it's been missing libraries every time I've tried17:18
mstof course, as soon as this works again17:18
mstI'm going to break it with apt again, most likely17:18
MohammadAGjohnsu01, got the libraries and optified perl-modules17:19
MohammadAGthey're still not in the repos, not sure if I should up them17:19
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MohammadAGplus I don't have the source (and don't want to rebuild them for maemo from scratch) so if I up them I'll put them in non-free17:20
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mstMohammadAG: if you talk to the guys17:22
mstMohammadAG: I think they'd really love to help17:22
mstMohammadAG: building packages for FB in general17:23
MohammadAGthey're already built17:23
MohammadAGbut they're not optified17:23
MohammadAGI was able to optify the perl-modules package17:23
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MohammadAGdoes anyone know of a good hosting service?17:27
MohammadAGUsing ucoz for free at the moment, but it doesn't allow +15MB files17:27
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talmaiwhen you put package to extras non-free repository, do you get any feedback on email or something.. how do you track what's happening with the package17:34
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mgedminthe N900 camera is too damn slow17:40
prontonot really o.O17:41
SpeedEvilyou mean shitter lag?17:41
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user_hey guys17:45
user_how are u doing17:46
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user_hi ganopp17:46
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* mst tries to work out what account-plugin-haze does that telephay-haze doesn't17:48
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user_is anyone here17:48
user_i got a problem17:49
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mstthis is IRC. nobody's going to reply unless you say something useful.17:49
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lcukmst, you broke the rules then17:50
user_ok, can u copy your /etc/apt/source.list for my referenece?17:51
lcuk/etc/apt/source.list is blank on device17:52
lcuk/etc/apt/sources.d folder has a list of repos updated17:52
MohammadAGit's /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list17:52
mgedminSpeedEvil, I mean "see cat sitting on laptop, pull n900 from pocket, open lens shutter, wait for camera app to start ... damn, the cat ran away"17:52
MohammadAGlcuk, beat me to it17:52
mgedminit takes 2-3 seconds for the camera app to start up17:53
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MohammadAGhow long does it take a normal camera to work from a pocket17:53
lcukmgedmin, downgrade your cat17:53
user_i meant this, you know it17:53
user_end wit .d17:53
lcuki would like to open shutter and take instant pics also17:54
SpeedEvillock camera-ui in RAM17:54
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, it's already in RAM I think17:54
SpeedEvilnot all of it17:55
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user_i just need a repository address that have ettercap17:55
user_can u help me17:55
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, oh I see17:57
MohammadAGShadowJK, ping17:57
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lcukis ettercap  in the maemo repository?17:59
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MohammadAGShadowJK, hi17:59
MohammadAGjust need to ask about the Mugen battery17:59
user_in what repo, then17:59
MohammadAGdoes it get rid of the blue haze problem in images?18:00
ShadowJKMohammadAG, the entire cover is more or less the same black matte finish as the N900 cover.. so there's no blue and no chrome parts near the camera18:00
ShadowJKit doesn't have a camera lens cover18:00
MohammadAGdid you find a workaround for the SD card problem?18:01
ShadowJKI haven't really looked at it18:01
ShadowJKbut I imagine you could glue a magnet to the inside of the cover18:01
MohammadAGI meant a software workaround :)18:02
MohammadAGanyways, thanks mate :)18:02
SpeedEvilisn't the case switvch IR18:02
SpeedEvilso a white thingy18:03
MohammadAGthat's for the camera18:03
MohammadAGI'm assuming flashlight won't work, as well as shortcutd/camkeyd18:03
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MohammadAGcamkeyd might actually go into the dashboard if the camera key is pressed, it does that without the cover18:04
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ShadowJKYeah the mugen cover works the same as N900 without any cover at all18:04
mstnidO: cheers for the advice, all good now.18:05
mstV13: cheers to you as well, mate.18:05
* mst vanishes into the aether18:05
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ech0Asusmeego is out for n900?18:17
ech0Asusaww man i just got meamo configured how i want :(18:18
ech0Asusisn't it a replacement os?18:18
nidOthis is the first meego code drop18:18
ech0Asusah ok so just for dev18:19
nidOits like a version18:19
nidOno ui, no working user features, nothing18:19
nidOits just a shell18:19
ech0Asuswell at least a shell now lol18:19
iksaifdo anyone tried localepurge on n900 ?18:20
iksaifI wonder how much space it could free ..18:20
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ech0Asusbbl guys need to study some :(18:22
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MohammadAG any ideas?18:34
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iksaiflocalepurge not working due to busybox :/18:50
iksaifbut deborphan is :)18:50
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corecodeMohammadAG: on?18:55
MohammadAGcorecode, compiling wol in scratchbox, autogen doesn't seem to making the file18:55
MohammadAGor the init directory18:55
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* noobmonk3y waves18:59
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Arif_soupmonk3y \o18:59
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noobmonk3ysoupmonkey? lol19:03
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* SpeedEvil wants to see a monkey on a segway with a bowl of soup.19:07
b-man17that was completely random xD19:07
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* lcuk returns with beer19:11
* MohammadAG sees a flashing !, expects PR1.2, finds out it's healthcheck19:12
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JaffaX-Fade: ping19:17
Jaffalcuk: good plan19:17
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* lcuk is going to kfc instead actually, beer will wait19:17
* SpeedEvil ponders fried beer.19:18
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* noobmonk3y should be packing, grrrrrrrrr19:19
nidOregular expressions are srsly the worst things ever /wrists19:20
dmj726_n900Arif: have you tried any n900 themes?19:21
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dmj726_n900Arif_: actually19:23
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Arif_I'm using dark sky19:31
stylecould you tell me fun g-sensor games19:32
Arif_quake 319:33
RST38hDoes g-sensor have anything to do with g-spots?19:33
MohammadAGG-sensor, haven't heard that in some time19:33
Arif_RST38h, you need to hold the phone in a specific spot for a while19:33
MohammadAGRST38h, LOL I was gonna say that but thought it might not be appropriate19:33
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SpeedEvilalso, it's not waterproof.19:34
RST38hMohammadAG: You mean, it did not mention PR1.2? =)19:35
Arif_a new !19:35
Arif_and it's wormux19:36
dmj726_n900does dark sky make it easier to read for you?19:37
Arif_I set all font sizes below 18 to 1819:37
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threshevery time someone mentions PR1.2, god kills a kitteh19:38
Arif_I do find it hard to read those yellow bars, though...={19:38
* RST38h kills a hampster, preemptively19:39
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DrGrovGood evening, Happy Easter to all =)19:39
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Arif_happy rabbit/egg day19:40
DrGrovthanks Arif_19:41
Arif_as that's the only thing left of it ;(19:41
* MohammadAG wonders why no one came up with a PS3 controller attachment for the N90019:42
Arif_everyone loves the zeemote19:43
Arif_or they got hte pandora :)19:43
MohammadAGno attachments for that either19:43
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MohammadAGRST38h, any idea where the icon for the task bar notification of xchat should be?19:47
dmj726_n900I think I may have to make a theme since gray buttons probably suck for a11y.19:48
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ShadowJKarithmetic is so fun in sh script :D20:04
Seiyai want to update psx4all 0.3.7 but i need 2 packets (libhildon1, libhildonmime0), where i can do this?20:04
RST38hSeiya: /msg X-Fade Please, fix autobuilder to build for the OS version everyone has20:05
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slonopotamusRST38h: does that help? :)20:09
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uhsfi tried everything from the wiki to set up usb networking but it still doesn't work. what is wrong with usb networking on the n900?20:16
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uhsfit may not be a problem with the n900, i suspect a problem with my linux workstation, what could be preventing usb network from connecting?20:28
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MohammadAG<Seiya> i want to update psx4all 0.3.7 but i need 2 packets (libhildon1, libhildonmime0), where i can do this?20:31
MohammadAGI have the old file that works20:32
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Seiya0.3.8 sry20:32
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MohammadAGSeiya, I have the old one20:33
Seiyacan you say me the version number20:34
MohammadAG<Seiya> i want to update psx4all 0.3.7 but i need 2 packets (libhildon1, libhildonmime0), where i can do this?20:34
MohammadAGyou can try
Seiyai have 0.3.7 and it runs to but i hope the update brings better performence20:35
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MohammadAGSeiya, then wait for PR1.2 :)20:35
itdockwhen is 1.220:35
itdockbeen waiiting forever20:36
* itdock runs around in circles20:37
Seiyagive it a release date?20:38
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b-man17no, 211020:41
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Arif_which one looks less crappy?
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itdockyou shopping DX too?20:43
Arif_yes :D20:43
Arif_maybe they have PR1.2 for sale20:43
itdockim buying more flashlights20:44
* noobmonk3y needs beer20:44
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Arif_those Chinese flashlights are awesome20:44
itdocki have one already, this one has the latest R5 emitter20:45
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itdocki got this too20:52
itdockfor no particular reason lol20:52
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jacekowskihave anybody tried meego?21:03
Stskeepsyes, shiny xterm21:03
jacekowskiin meego?21:03
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Stskeepsit's supposed to be like that21:03
Stskeepsit's an xterm21:04
Stskeepsi am not kidding21:04
itdockand thats all you get21:04
itdockno other interface21:04
jacekowskino way?21:04
itdockjust imagine a black part of the screen that is 2/3 of the screen with some text on it21:04
itdockthats it21:05
jacekowski1st april was yesterday21:05
nidOwhy would you expect more?21:05
nidOits what was announced would be there a while ago21:05
itdockmeego is released21:05
Stskeepsit is not a release21:05
Stskeepsit's a codedrop21:05
itdockfor developers only21:05
itdockit is not usable as a phone OS21:05
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nidOmeego day1 code drop = UX for netbooks, and none for anything else, with them being added over time between day1 and the May 1.0 intended release21:05
StskeepsnidO: intel images boot into a console21:06
nidOwhered the netbook ux go then21:06
Stskeepsthink the ux isn't entirely settled yet21:06
SpeedEvilI had ux.21:06
SpeedEvilBut I eated it.21:06
RST38hgo extract it, quick21:07
RST38hbefore it finishes transformation into symbian ux21:07
* itdock gives heimlich maneuver21:07
KMFDMuse of rpm's is a bit disappointing21:08
Stskeepssigh, we had this discussion21:08
itdockya, i want my super cow powers21:08
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* SpeedEvil fails to understand why people get all excited over packace formats.21:09
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RST38hgives them something to fight over21:09
lcukbecause many people use one format or another21:09
nidObecause puritan geeks who've made their choice on what they prefer become irrational in believing their way is best.21:09
lcuki have same format on laptop and on device at the moment21:10
ds3bah packaging21:10
RST38hbecause fighting over the right to keep your shoes on in the airport is hard.21:10
nidOrather than understanding that for something like a package format, it doesnt make the slightest bit of damn difference21:10
lcukbah indeed21:10
* lcuk still strongly advocates installshield21:10
* RST38h sticks lcuk with the Microsoft Clippy21:10
V13nid0 or perhaps because most of all who used deb (plus all extra tools like the builder, apt, repositories, plus all the nice things like common arch packages, multi-arch, etc) liked them very much :P21:11
* lcuk installs Norton AntiVirus on RST38h's computer21:11
lcukgor is it called something else now21:11
* V13 flamed21:11
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itdocki want this under my desk21:12
nidOyes, they do like them, just like lots of people that use rpm like that, yet when all is said and done, which ultimately gets used doesnt matter in the least21:12
nidOI prefer nano over vi or emacs, but at the end of the day whichever I use, the file still gets edited.21:12
RST38hitdock: would you prefer a woman instead, though?21:12
V13lets summarize to this: Will it be possible to do SSUs with RPM?21:13
Stskeepsof course21:13
lcuk+1 RST38h21:13
Stskeepsit might even be saner21:13
V13Stskeeps: The whole system?21:13
StskeepsV13: yes, why not21:13
Stskeepsyum or zypper vs apt-get21:13
Stskeepsnot rpm vs apt-get21:13
V13dunno.. last time i checked rpm (some years ago) couldn't do that21:13
V13wait.. that's not all..21:13
StskeepsV13: of course, rpm is comparable to dpkg21:13
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nidOyeah and thats the problem V1321:13
V13i didn't ask for an automated package download tool.21:14
Stskeepsapt-get's one21:14
nidOa lot of people bemoaning rpm are comparing what deb can do now with what rpm could do a decade ago21:14
V13I'm not talking about apt but about deb21:14
nidObecause thats the last time they used it21:14
V13will it be possible to upgrade the system with rpm, without a reflash?21:14
V13i.e. handle all package upgrades21:14
V13then it's ok21:15
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itdockRST38h: already have one, need machine now21:20
RST38hget the second one, forget about that machine21:21
Chiku|dcPR 1.2 is not relaesed yet? :(21:21
V13it did21:21
* V13 runs21:21
threshevery time someone mentions PR1.2, god kills a kitteh21:22
Arif_PR1.3 is due next week21:22
Arif_who needs PR1.221:22
Chiku|dcneed to reflash my n90021:23
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* SpeedEvil is waiting for PRsqrt(2)21:23
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nidOim sure we'll get to 1.4.1 sooner or later21:23
V13the real question is: Is pr1.2 released for testing yet?21:24
Arif_or Moogo21:24
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marcusHeya guys21:35
marcusDocScrutinizer: Appearently that trouble I had with accelerometer yesterday, was fixed by a simple reboot. (: Works perfect now.21:36
lcukyo! marcus21:36
V13marcus: it was reporting nonsense?21:36
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marcusV13: Nah, but acting annoying. When I was in Bounce Evolution (the game) it went straight to the right. And the flip to start phone app didnt work21:37
marcusBut after reboot it did.21:37
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V13there is an open bug report for something similar. It becomes unusable and gets fixed when you turn-off and on21:38
V13a reboot did not fix it for me. I had to turn n900 off21:38
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marcusV13: Sounds like the problem I had. (I just said reboot instead of turn off -> Start)21:39
lcukwheres the bug for accelerometer21:39
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povbotBug 6996: Accelerometer uncalibrated after reboot21:40
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marcusand I finally got it updated using my GFs network... lawl21:42
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marcusIf I install extras-devel, do I then see the apps like normal via program manager? Or do I need to use apt-get21:45
lcukthanks V1321:45
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marcusDo you guys use built-in browser or firefox? and why?21:48
nidOmicrob's better21:48
DrGrovwtf? PR 1.2 out for download?21:49
threshevery time someone mentions PR1.2, god kills a kitteh21:49
threshi should probably put that in auto-reply21:49
* RST38h mentions PR1.2 in vain, again and again, just to watch poor kitten ghosts rise to the skies from all around21:50
DrGrovthresh: sounds like a challenge. i wonder if there is enough kittens around for me to keep mentioning PR 1.221:51
* lcuk hopes the poor kittens get brought back to life as lions and tigers21:52
RST38hlcuk: The dirty little secret is, everyone gets brought back to life as an insect, to conserve space.21:54
lcukwhat about insects themselves?21:54
lcukand you cannot discount leprechauns21:55
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Arif_since Monday is a holiday too21:56
Arif_don't expect it then either :D21:56
RST38hlcuk: insects just die, sorry21:56
nidOno holiday here :(21:57
Stskeepsevery time someone mentions PR1.2, it gets delayed a day21:57
Arif_/timer 0 1 msg #maemo pr1.221:57
SpeedEvilmicrob is doing odd shit for me21:58
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Arif_its working? :O21:58
SpeedEvilafgter using it heavily, it will start not loading pages21:58
MohammadAGhappened on the SDK (PR1.2) too21:58
Arif_oh yeas21:58
Arif_I have that too21:58
MohammadAGhad to restart the SDK21:58
Arif_the blue bar fills21:59
Arif_but the page stays blank21:59
SpeedEvilreboot fixes21:59
Arif_you're not alone :>21:59
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marcusAnyone know how to make python set the screen brightness on maemo 5?22:01
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SpeedEvilhow do I record the screen?22:04
SpeedEvilI want to add a video of bugs in blocks22:05
lcukSpeedEvil, theres x11vnc afaik, and you can then do the recording off device22:05
marcusdunno if RecordMyDesktop works for n900, works for ubuntu though :P22:05
lcukbut simplest and the thing most people do is just record using camera22:05
jogausing a camera has the benefit of documenting also how you use the device ;)22:06
SpeedEvilmy other camera broke, and I need to jigsaw 3 other cams to get it working again22:06
nidOhm, there is a really easy obvious way to record whats onscreen22:06
nidOI just cant remember what it is22:06
jogaI remember some prog in the repos22:06
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marcusdo an endless loop of screenshots and then make a gif :322:06
SpeedEvilit's an action sxhot22:07
jogaor, hmm, maybe it was just xnee22:07
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SpeedEvilblocks does collision detection wrong22:07
SpeedEviltake a zigzag block22:07
SpeedEviland a zigzag shaped hole, constrained on both sides22:08
Arif_report a bug!22:08
SpeedEvilyou can slide the block into the hole22:08
jogaSpeedEvil: that's awesome!22:08
SpeedEvilif you go fast22:08
SpeedEvilblocks is strangely addictive.22:09
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SpeedEvil10100 top.22:09
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nidOah, is it load-applet that has an option to record screencasts?22:10
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marcusanyone know if urllib is on the n900 python?22:13
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johnsu01marcus: yes, at least in the python that's on mine :)22:15
marcusjohnsu01: Perfect! (:22:15
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* microlith wonders what process is killing his N900's responsiveness22:29
Stskeepsbrowser, probably22:30
microlithneed something that logs processes when they exceed 50% usage for more than a few seconds22:30
lcukwhat happens when the logging process takes up >50% cpu?22:31
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MaikBThe phone implodes :P22:31
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MohammadAG<SpeedEvil> how do I record the screen?22:34
MohammadAGvery late reply, but the load-applet should have a screencast function22:34
MohammadAGit will also use the microphone to record your audio, so be sure you don't have anything that you don't want heard :)22:34
_llll_a load applet that records things?22:35
lcuk_llll_, feature creep22:35
MohammadAGweird, don't you think?22:35
SpeedEvilI get 99% of the way through the bug - and the banner from xchat killed the entry somehow22:35
* SpeedEvil sighs22:35
* MohammadAG hits himself22:35
MohammadAGsorry :(22:36
* lcuk opens a beer and maliciously pours it down his own throat22:36
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microlithlcuk: what did you liver ever do to you?22:36
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, sorry22:36
SpeedEvilsomdehow it instantly skipped back a page22:36
lcukmicrolith, its having a party22:36
SpeedEvilforward worked22:36
MohammadAGRST38h, when are you removing the banner?22:36
* Arif_ yawns22:38
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* MohammadAG repartitions his microSD22:39
* SpeedEvil wonders if bug 9826 is the silliest.22:39
povbotBug Blocks collision detection bug22:39
Arif_fixed in harnmattan!22:40
_llll_someone should make uptimed available22:40
SpeedEvilRST38h: the banner is fine. I would like to be able to click urls in banners tho22:41
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, there is a built in one, but it's like the SMS ones rather than a banner22:41
MohammadAGthe banner seems to "kill" multitasking (it blurs the button)22:42
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SpeedEvilwhat button22:44
MohammadAGthe dashboard button22:44
SpeedEvilI like the banners - on balance22:44
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, go to settings and enable the task bar notification, when you do I'll highlight you22:44
MohammadAG(if you want to see if that's better)22:44
SpeedEvilwhere in settings22:47
MohammadAGSettings > Preferences > Alerts22:47
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TheOnehi @all22:47
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, "Show tray balloons on"22:48
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MohammadAGhi TheOne22:48
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TheOnei have installed rootsh, so i can type root and get root priviliges22:48
styletell me some fun apps for n900 :P22:48
TheOnecan i set a root pw too?22:48
SpeedEvilI like the modality22:48
TheOnemaybe with passwd ?22:49
_llll_why not, TheOne ?22:49
TheOneor does it only work with root22:49
TheOnewhat would be the behaviour if i set a root pw and type root?22:49
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MohammadAGTheOne, you can set the pass by using passwd22:49
TheOnewould he ask me first?22:49
MohammadAGfor both root and user22:49
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LynoureWhee, my little package, all optified and in the hands of the first tester :)22:56
TheOneis it possible to use the n900 umts inet connectino via usb as a network device for my laptop?22:57
TheOneif yes, can someone paste a howto link?22:58
_llll_i googled for that the other day and found a link22:58
TheOnei searched the wiki but i found only the bluetooth way22:58
_llll_it wasnt very well written, but someone with time probably could have followed it22:58
_llll_link was on maemo wiki iirc, but google worked quickly22:59
MohammadAGTheOne, joikuspot22:59
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MohammadAGor MobileHotspot22:59
Tuxprobehiya, anyone knows about XMLTV grabbers for Maemo Fremantle??23:00
ptl_wants_PR12gwibber is being ported to the N90023:01
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TheOneMohammadAG: the 2 apps work only via wifi23:08
TheOnei want to use my mobile inet connection via usb23:08
TheOnethe n900 as a usb modem23:08
TheOneso that i only have to enable 2G/3G and turn off bluetooth and wifi23:09
TheOneto save a little more battery23:09
MohammadAGTheOne, not sure but maybe you might be able to use Nokia PC suite23:09
MohammadAGit should work as a modem23:09
MohammadAGbe wary that your operator might make you pay more to tether via Bluetooth or USB23:10
TheOnei found that
TheOnebut thats excat the other direction23:11
TheOneto connect to the n900 and use the laptop inet23:11
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MohammadAGyou want to use your laptop's internet on the N900?23:12
TheOneno, i want my n900 internet at my laptop23:13
Arif_its 10 USD23:13
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TheOneexactly like Joikuspot, but not via wifi - i want it via usb23:14
Arif_Nokia PC Suite23:14
TheOneunder linux?23:14
TheOnei can not imagine i am the first one who ask for something like that23:15
TheOneokay i think i have to figure it out otherwise, thx ;)23:16
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* Arif_ shrugs23:17
* ptl_wants_PR12 facepalms23:22
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ShadowJKunder linux I just changed /dev/rfcomm0 to /dev/ttyUSB0 or something like that iirc ;p23:23
ShadowJKand intarwebs worked23:23
ShadowJKwith usb23:23
Arif_ptl_wants_PR12, stop wanting stuff you know you'll never get23:24
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ShadowJKmy silly is up to 120 lines now :D23:25
ptl_wants_PR12Arif_ :(23:25
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ptl_wants_PR12Arif_: not even if I fight for it?23:26
Arif_be happy with what you have now!23:26
ptl_wants_PR12ShadowJK: is that the script for getting status/info from the battery?23:26
ptl_wants_PR12cool. Will you make some app out of it?23:26
ptl_wants_PR12Arif_: that would be conformism!23:26
ptl_wants_PR12ok, what about that: instead of fighting for it, I'll troll for it23:27
ShadowJKptl_wants_PR12, I want to make a script in the style of vmstat/sysstat/iostat for my own use23:27
Arif_I'm already trolling enough for the whole channel23:27
styletell me some fun apps for n900 :P23:27
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ptl_wants_PR12ShadowJK: please share when you are done, that would be very interesting to me too, I use vmstat and iostat all the time at my job and would sure have some use for such a utility that queries the battery23:28
Arif_style, define "fun"23:28
styleArif_: well, something useful/games (maybe from extras-devel)23:29
Arif_you're in the wrong place for that23:29
Arif_#iphone is over there23:29
ptl_wants_PR12style: gnumeric, abiword, quickpanorama (maemo select), AppWatch, burgerface, Duke Nukem 3D CD Edition, Numpty Physics23:29
style... :D23:29
evilrobShadowJK: where are you getting the battery info from?  I notice there isn't /proc/acpi/*23:30
styleptl_wants_PR12: jeh tjanks23:30
ShadowJKevilrob, straight from the battery chip23:30
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ShadowJKIt will no doubt brick my N900 one day since bme also talks over i2c to the same script23:30
ShadowJKto the same chip.-23:30
ptl_wants_PR12ShadowJK: how's that? /dev/bme0 or something similar?23:31
ShadowJKno through /dev/i2c-223:32
ShadowJKI'm using i2cget from i2c-tools to request arbitrary data from arbitrary addresses on i2c bus23:32
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ShadowJKthis the data I currently dump and parse:
MohammadAGdoes the N900 support multiple partitions on the microSD?23:34
ptl_wants_PR12you stop bme, read it then restart, ShadowJK?23:34
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ShadowJKptl_wants_PR12, -STOP signal to bme, read data, -CONT signal to bme23:34
ShadowJKI don't want bme to access the chip at the same time23:34
ptl_wants_PR12have you ever tried doing that to see what happens?23:35
ptl_wants_PR12maybe there is no race condition, it's just a read, isn't it?23:35
ShadowJKyeah dunno23:35
ShadowJKbme only does a read every 10-30 secs or something anyway23:35
ptl_wants_PR12MohammadAG: yes, it does, I've seen some reports of people making it work23:35
ShadowJKso actually reading at the same time is a small probability to begin with23:35
MohammadAGptl_wants_PR12, not out the box then eh?23:36
ptl_wants_PR12ShadowJK: might be but it would be very interesting to see what happens!23:36
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ptl_wants_PR12MohammadAG: I think it does out of the box, why wouldn't it? You'd just have to format it with a suitable FS then maybe changing some of the init scripts like mmc-mount and mmc-umount23:37
MrGoosemaemo 4 used to be semi-free (as in speech). Is maemo 5 too? Also are there any closed source components on the n900?23:37
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evilrobShadowJK: I don't see how you could cause any problems since you're not writing back to the file (even dev entries are just files in unix)23:37
ptl_wants_PR12MrGoose: yep, some thing.23:37
MrGooselike what?23:37
MohammadAGptl_wants_PR12, I said multiple partitions :)23:37
ptl_wants_PR12MrGoose: like the battery (bme)23:37
MohammadAGnot one ext3 partition23:37
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ShadowJKevilrob, some registers are 16bit and they have special behaviour23:37
MrGooseand the wireless driver?23:37
MohammadAGthere doesn't seem to be a /dev/mmcblk1p223:37
ShadowJKIf I read the first half of the register, and BME reads something else, and I try read second half, the chip might throw an error23:38
ptl_wants_PR12MrGoose: I think the wireless driver is free23:38
ptl_wants_PR12as in free speech23:38
MohammadAGptl_wants_PR12, umm AFAIK it's closed, since installing Mer requires that you copy the bin file from /lib/firmware23:39
evilrobthe i2c tools should handle that error.  spew the proper return code, fail your read perhaps, but not cause any hardware issues23:39
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evilrob <-- old unix geek23:39
evilrobconcurrent read-only access shouldn't be a problem.23:39
ShadowJKevilrob, I think "recovery" would be to read the failed register pair again, but if it was bme that did it and failed, I wouldn't know which one...23:40
ptl_wants_PR12MohammadAG: then I am wrong, thanks for correcting me. :)23:40
ShadowJKI just think it's safer this way :)23:40
MohammadAGptl_wants_PR12, np :p23:40
* MohammadAG goes back to search for multiple partitions in fremantle23:40
ptl_wants_PR12I thought it was free because it works so well in Mer and easy-debian23:40
ptl_wants_PR12forgot that it could be because they use the binary drivers.23:41
evilrobShadowJK: fix the perms on /dev/i2c* to be 664 instead of 660, then run the program as non-root user, can't possibly write back to it then23:41
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ShadowJKevilrob, no no, what I'm saying is: reads have side-effects23:41
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evilroba read should never cause a side-effect.  if it does, the i2c tools are broken.  it's possible that a read could fail if it's not atomic, and something changed the data being read, but there should be no side-effects of a pure read23:43
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evilrobI can fopen() with the read only flags and cruise through /dev/kmem all day and while I might get some read errors, not effect any running processes23:43
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ShadowJKevilrob, it's a common issue with i2c stuff23:44
evilrobwow...  that's broken then23:44
ptl_wants_PR12you guys are getting me curious23:44
ptl_wants_PR12try it23:44
ptl_wants_PR12try to read in a closed loop, ShadowJK23:44
ptl_wants_PR12see if it gets some error or something23:45
ptl_wants_PR12without stopping bme23:45
ShadowJKLike, on the PC side, there are some hw monitoring chips that interpret reads as commands, and you actually give commands by reading addresses in certain order ;p23:45
ptl_wants_PR12that seems lame, why they didn't do that with writes?23:46
* ShadowJK shrugs23:46
evilrobmonitoring stuff usually sits between the bus and the chip.  I have a friend that writes mem testers23:46
ptl_wants_PR12it's like using an input device for doing output, e.g. using your eyes to shoot laser beams.23:46
SpeedEvilevilrob: the hardware - the I2C chips are not built to work that way always23:46
SpeedEvilevilrob: A read can - and often does - change the state of the device.23:47
evilrobso you can't write to the tester or read from it, but it will monitor certain ranges for read commands.  he explained that to me over beer long time ago....23:47
ShadowJKAs far as I can tell, reading the first part of a 16 bit register means "return lo byte, copy hi byte into comm buffer for transmission on next read"23:48
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ShadowJKthe other 8 bits are copied from ram into comm buffer, so that the value isn't modified in between reads23:48
SpeedEvilevilrob: fine - that at least requires writing a shim i2c driver23:49
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evilrobwell the unix geek in me feels that's broken implementation.  but in any case, I'm going home.  everyone else has already left the office23:49
SpeedEvilevilrob: the hardware - the I2C chips are not built to work that way always23:49
SpeedEvilthe designers don't care what you think.23:49
evilrobSpeedEvil: yes.  I read that the last time you wrote it23:49
evilrobwow.. arrogant much?23:49
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ShadowJKevilrob, it's not something that can be fixed in software without a driver that sits as arbitrator enforcing the hardware's limitations on software :)23:50
MrGooseptl_wants_PR12: right thanks23:50
SpeedEvila per-device driver that knows all devices quirks.23:50
evilrobthere's no magic in writing device drivers23:51
ShadowJKi2c-tools is just a way to send arbitrary read or write requests onto i2c bus23:51
SpeedEvilas some have no public docs23:51
ShadowJKbq27200 has public docs23:51
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ShadowJKAnd a kernel driver, that's not used in mameo23:53
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SpeedEvildoes bme use the bq?23:55
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, we know of two chips on i2c-2 that do not have a /sys node. bme has opened /dev/i2c-2 twice. I do not consider this a coincidence :)23:58
SpeedEvilbq* and gaia?23:58
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ShadowJKno gaia has many sysfs nodes :)23:59

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