IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-02-06

ShadowJKthe journal is probably not that bad00:00
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wazd_n800stskeeps, how was the bar?)00:00
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SpeedEvilthe ideal solution would be something that supported trim00:01
Stskeepswas good00:01
microlithSpeedEvil: nah, were it usable by ubifs or logfs, TRIM wouldn't be necssary00:01
wazd_n800Stskeeps, it was bad if you can type now :D00:01
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: you're asking for catalytic converter and we haven't even got an internal combustion engine yet!00:01
ShadowJKI thought logfs was able to run on block devices?00:02
woglindeisnt trim in 2.6.33ß00:02
microlithShadowJK: it is, but it's not stable (enough) yet00:02
SpeedEvilmicrolith: yes. Either a 'get out of my way, I know about NAND and will wear level myself' mode - or TRIM00:03
SpeedEvilwoglinde: trim may be in the kernel - however - SDs don't support it00:03
ShadowJKyes but the hardware isn't ssd, and its internal structure doesn't lend itself to doing anything meaningful with trim anyway00:03
Stskeepswazd_n800: have to travel tomorrow so can't be too drunk :P00:03
SpeedEvilShadowJK: do you ahve any actual documentation on wear leveling on SDs?00:04
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microlithregular SD cards don't do any wear levelling, iirc00:04
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ShadowJKthe LogFS author posted to LKML about it00:04
ShadowJKmicrolith: they do00:04
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ShadowJKbut it all operates with 256k blocks00:04
SpeedEvilShadowJK: do you happen to recall keywords - or did you happen to bookmark it?00:04
maromaderso, should I stick with ext3 then for /home ?00:05
microlithmaromader: for the sake of your data, yes00:05
ShadowJKSpeedevil: joern engel smartmedia00:05
SpeedEvilThe physical erase block size of the flash involved is 128-256k00:05
SpeedEvilsmartmedia isn't SD though00:05
SpeedEvilunless that's just a comment00:05
microlithsmartmedia was almost a raw NAND interface00:05
maromaderok then00:05
maromaderext3 it will be00:05
ShadowJKsmartmedia is also a FTL format00:06
maromaderhow about /usr? /opt?00:06
ShadowJKand what he found was that basically all usb keys and memory cards implement smartmedia00:06
microlithmaromader: /usr is on the / partition, /opt is a symlink to /home/opt00:06
ds3was? smartmedia is a raw NAND interface00:07
microlithds3: find me a smartmedia card :P00:07
ds3people have used them on a raw NAND controller (if there is such a thing)00:07
SpeedEvilsmartmedia is not what you mean00:07
ds3microlith: want to buy one?00:07
maromadermicrolith, I so, so if I move /usr to the smartmedia, then I should set it up as ext300:07
microlithnot particularly, I haven't see any devices that use the formfactor since 200300:07
ds3they reduced the size and called them xD cards00:08
microlithmaromader: you will likely have trouble booting if you move /usr00:08
SpeedEvil2003 is pretty late00:08
ds3same stuff, different package00:08
microlithds3: oh, those evil things00:08
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maromadermicrolith, no, already done that a few times :)00:08
microlitha whole two companies backing them00:08
ds3there are still 2? ;)00:08
maromadern900 boots fine00:08
microlithds3: only ones I knew of were Olympus and Fuji00:08
microlitheveryone else went SD except (lol) sony00:09
Damion2faster than light?00:09
ds3microlith: were?00:09
microlithDamion2: flash transition layer00:09
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SpeedEvilThe above claims that 'all' USB sticks implment a wear leveling algorithm similar to the one in the smartmedia standard00:10
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microlithds3: right right, it's not dead yet00:10
Damion2yeah well obviously I didn't really think it was ftl ;)00:10
ds3microlith: I seem to recall Fuji was phasing it out00:10
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microlithds3: wouldn't surprise me00:11
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ShadowJKSo anyway, second generation SSD's map 4k logical block writes sequentially into the 256k physical, and keeps a map of where each 4k block is located physically, this is why they have enormous 64M RAM ("cache")... SD and such map 256k block to a 256k physical...00:12
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:12
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woglindenite trem00:12
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SpeedEvilThere are relatively simple and resource unintensive ways of doing wear leveling.00:13
ShadowJKtrim helps those second-gen SSD's to do something sensible once everything is rewritten in a new random order00:13
SpeedEvilBut I have mislaid where I put my bookmarks on this.00:13
ShadowJKWell it's not just wear leveling :)00:13
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SpeedEvilwear leveling - pretending it's a defect free4 device and defragmenting, and ...00:14
ShadowJKlogfs author replied "i dont" after presenting logfs and one in the audience asking how he does wear leveling00:14
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ShadowJKbasically it shuffles around all active data anyway00:14
microlithShadowJK: he doesn't?00:14
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woglinde~seen javispedro00:15
infobotjavispedro <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 4h 28m 5s ago, saying: 'well I'm going to take it to a nokia care point and see what Phoenix has to say'.00:15
wazd_n800nokia care captured javis!00:16
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maromaderhow to initialize tracker index?00:16
* microlith facepalms at all the spam posts on tmo00:16
ShadowJKnilfs2 vs ext3 on a OCZ Rally2 Turbo (dual channel usb flash key, 30ish meg write speed sequential) is kinda funny00:16
dracflamlocgot my n900!00:16
woglindewazd do you know if javis holds a talk at fosem?00:17
dracflamlocits updating00:17
maromaderdracflamloc, congratulations :-)00:17
wazd_n800dracflamloc, congrats00:17
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maromaderdracflamloc, don't brick it the same day :)00:17
ShadowJKmy benchmark of copying 2 gig squid cache yields about 500kbyte/s with ext3, and 5 megabytes/sec with nilfs200:17
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dracflamloci'll try not to00:17
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dracflamlocbut ive got all nigth without my wife...00:17
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ShadowJKunfortunately nilfs2 blows up on arm after a few minutes :)00:17
ShadowJK(well the vm blows up, the fs and data is intact)00:18
microlithversioning and continouous snapshotting... doesn't that eat up space after a while?00:18
woglindehm so nilfs2 is really coole for flash devices?00:18
ShadowJKit throws away old versions unless you ask them to be kept00:18
microlithoh ok00:18
microlithoh cool, sponsored by NTT00:19
ShadowJKany log structured fs should be awesome on flash and cheap ssd00:19
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ShadowJKbtrfs is (or was) kinda halfway there with a cheap-ssd mode that just made the disk layout algorithm consider write seeks very expensive and read seeks cheap00:20
ShadowJKbut I heard it was removed? not sure00:21
ShadowJKbtrfs is kinda unfinished :)00:21
microliththat sounds more like compensating for a bad controller00:21
ShadowJKYou wont get a "good" controller with anything except second gen ssd00:21
ds3why are people using SSD's instead of a board with a NAND controller + NAND?00:22
microlithds3: because they can plug them into their existing SATA interfaces and boot off them00:22
ShadowJKThose things are basically Arm CPUs running LogFS-type things.00:22
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ds3microlith: so people are lazy and stupid, in order words?00:22
ScribbleJAnyone here tried playing with artoolkit on the N900?00:23
ds3a NAND controller is cheaper and better00:23
ScribbleJThere's packages for it in extras-devel but they appear to contain nothing!00:23
ShadowJKds3: just look at the confusion and complaining about the N900 NAND :)00:23
microlithds3: I dunno, I don't think I'd want to mess around too much with my work laptop just to get some additional responsiveness00:23
ds3ShadowJK: I suppose... a direct NAND interface seems natural and proper to me00:23
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ds3but then I make an effort to avoid x86 ;)00:24
ShadowJKSo basically stuff that simulates block devices is used for consumers, because then it just works when it's connected to their PC00:25
microlithds3: I -think- the fusionio devices effectively do something similar, but have no means of proving it00:25
ShadowJKmass production makes this cheaper than raw nand, amusingly :-)00:25
ds3I donno about that00:25
ds3you can't do X + Y < Y.... X + Y <= Y maybe00:26
ds3I guess this all those into the cloud known as the mystery of x8600:26
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recalcati_hi all, I'm trying to install fosdem application on N90000:27
ShadowJKthere's enterprise stuff with tons of SLC nand on PCIe... but it's bloody expensive :-)00:27
ds3yes, but that's because there is the abomination known as PCIe00:27
recalcati_I've downloaded fosdem-schedule_0.4_fremantle . Now its possible to install it ?00:28
ShadowJKds3: don't forget, if they suspect you aren't a consumer, price goes up by 10x ;-)00:28
ds3ShadowJK: Indeed... but I am hoping the coming SoC Atoms might fix some of this00:28
recalcati_If I click on it the N900 asks me to choose an application, so I choose application manager, but nothing happens00:28
recalcati_I'm wrong ?00:29
ShadowJKUser's aren't supposed to download random .deb files from internet00:29
ShadowJKdpkg -i from x-terminal after sudo gainroot (rootsh in extras)00:30
recalcati_rootsh how to install ?00:30
ShadowJKenable extras ( in app manager (menu->application catalogues), download, all, scroll to rootsh00:31
ShadowJK(approximately, from my poor memory)00:32
recalcati_i have enabled maemo . now its verifying  new applications00:33
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ShadowJKds3: i guess one can always hope thet wont be crippled00:34
* ShadowJK 'd wanr a m-itx or m-atx atom dualcore board with 4gigs ram and 4-8 sata ports00:34
ShadowJKat sub-phenom price00:35
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recalcati_ShadowJK: rootsh installed.00:36
recalcati_now I try00:36
jebbat-tan: you notice any real differences with -O2 now that you've had it awhile?00:36
ds3ShadowJK: why go atom if you want all that?00:36
ShadowJKhey I'd take that with an arm cpu too...00:37
ShadowJKlow power storage server being the goal00:37
ds3what do you need that is not in the slug already?00:38
recalcati_there is tab completion using x terminal ?00:38
ShadowJKslug died, and it's sluggish ;p00:38
ShadowJKatom 330 can push at half gigabit speed00:39
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ShadowJKslug at, uh, 40mbit?00:40
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* ShadowJK has a sheeva, but no sata there :(00:40
fralsrecalcati_: ctrl+i00:41
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recalcati_frals: beautifull !00:41
ShadowJKalso on the statuss bar thing at the bottom00:42
* ShadowJK sleeps00:42
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Lumpio-Man I need snap to grid for desktop widgets00:43
recalcati_perfect. application installed and working . thank you very much00:43
redeemanLumpio-: so enable00:43
Lumpio-I just spent 15 minutes OCDing with positioning00:43
Lumpio-I... must have missed that option :o00:43
redeemanits on by default in PR1.1, just with a very small snap setting00:44
jophish mentions etch. Would it be best to use lenny, or perhaps squeeze?00:44
redeemani cant remember the config file, search the bugtracker for the bug about it, and its there00:44
Lumpio-oo ok00:45
recalcati_fosdem scheduling application on N900 is really interesting.00:50
SpeedEvilLumpio-: you can enable it00:51
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SpeedEvilLumpio-: I think it's enabled at 4 pixel res00:51
Matthew-Hey, is it possible to block a number from calling me and texting me?00:52
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SpeedEvil /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transistions.ini - at the end - Lumpio-00:55
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Lumpio-I did notice there's some snapping, but not enough for my purposes00:55
Lumpio-I'll check that file out00:55
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ptlwhere is scummvm? I can't find it on the repositories01:00
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Z4lki think its in the devel repo01:03
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t-tanjebba: I didn't notice any slowdowns so far :) it's hard to tell - the N900 is already quite fast01:06
* luke-jr wants Qualcomm's dual-core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon <.<01:07
t-tanjebba: I'd need to N900 with different kernels to tell the difference01:07
infobott-tan meant: jebba: I'd need two N900 with different kernels to tell the difference01:07
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uhsfi can ssh with wifi, but why usb network connection gives ssh: connect to host N900 port 22: No route to host?01:08
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ptlZ4lk: I have extras and extras-devel activated and still nothing01:11
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scr4veuhsh: pc-connectivity installed?01:11
scr4vecorrect ip?01:12
Z4lkthen i dont know thats where i got it from01:12
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jebbat-tan: mine has been rebooting a bit, like 4-5 times in 12 hours....01:15
jebbai didnt really see that before.01:15
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t-tanjebba: no reboots so far. when did it happen? with certain apps? or just randomly?01:17
xorAxAxmoin cehteh01:17
* SpeedEvil wonders why vim is 21M01:17
xorAxAxceh900: --> #dwimd01:17
uhsfscr4ve: can't find package pc-connectivity01:17
t-tanSpeedEvil: to compete with Emacs01:18
scr4veuhsf: maemo5-pc-connectivity afaik01:18
SpeedEvilt-tan: naah - busybox tools tend to be somewhat limited. And it's not really reasonable to expect a phone to ship with full vi.01:18
scr4vejust google it01:18
SpeedEvilt-tan: thread clash - yeah.01:19
t-tanSpeedEvil: it is reasonable to expect any phone to ship with vi??01:19
SpeedEvilnevermind - I was commenting on something said in another channel - and forgot it wasn't this one. I need to go to sleep or something.01:20
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t-tanSpeedEvil: if busybox is to limited for you - try the new *utils-gnu packages01:20
t-tanSpeedEvil: no problem01:21
SpeedEvilwhere is this wonderous package?01:21
SpeedEvilIt'd be quicker to list the busybox tools that haven't annoyed me.01:21
t-tanSpeedEvil: I just uploaded fresh versions: coreutils-gnu, findutils-gnu, grep-gnu, sed-gnu, tar-gnu01:21
t-tanI wonder why Nokia shipped busybox at all. the real tools are not much larger and is still some space left on NAND...01:22
SpeedEvilThe busybox tools have a much lower RAM use when they are in RAM as I understand it.01:23
SpeedEvilIf you have - say - busybox shell running - then to run also awk, or ps at the same time adds very little RAM use01:23
jebbat-tan: it rebooted on a couple fone calls and other times just random.01:23
t-tanSpeedEvil: compared to Qt? :)01:23
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SpeedEvilt-tan: now you're just being silly, and bringing rationality into the argument.01:24
uhsfscr4ve: are you sure maemo5-pc-connectivity is needed? because it's not mentionned in the howto01:24
t-tanjebba: ok, we'll see. maybe I had just too much luck today.01:24
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jebbai have quite a lot of stuff compiled into my kernel, but lots of those modules aren't loaded so it shouldn't matter (e.g. i'm not using NAT IPv6 etc)01:25
jebbawould be nice to just lower the senstitivity of the watchdog or something. I need to track down what is actually resetting the device...01:25
SpeedEviljebba: look in /etc/*/*/* for dsmetool01:26
t-tanjebba: I noticed that IPv6 is loaded by default, BTW01:26
SpeedEviljebba: mentions of - that is01:26
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t-tanjebba: could you try my kernel to check whether it's possibly only a minor difference that causes the reboots?01:28
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SpeedEvildsmetool launches most stuff - and will reboot if some things die01:29
SpeedEvilor if some things die often01:29
SpeedEvilforex the browser dying 3 times will casue a reboot01:29
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ptlt-tan: do you know if there's an easier way to do enter in the emulated 'terminal' from the scratchbox emulator than clicking on the "ctrl" button, pressing enter and then unclicking it? Also, do you know if there's any way to simulate accelerometer, GPS etc. within scratchbox?01:30
t-tanSpeedEvil: you mean, if the device is on for two weeks and the browser crashes 3 times...?01:30
SpeedEvilt-tan: no - I think it's within 6 mins01:31
SpeedEvilt-tan: awk-gnu?01:32
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t-tanptl: I don't think so - for advanced stuff you need the real device. why would you use the graphical X-Terminal in scratchbox?01:32
maromaderwhen I do "tar -c -f - /home/user/MyDocs | ssh user@host cat > MyDocs.tar", tar (from busybox) creates a file MyDocs.tar in current directory and stops at some point because disk is full. any way to avoid that?01:32
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t-tanSpeedEvil: not yet ready - it's an awkward package :)01:33
SpeedEvilt-tan: :)01:33
SpeedEvilnot optified I guess.01:33
ScribbleJtar -cf - | ssh user@host "dd of=Mydocs.tar"01:33
maromaderlet's see...01:33
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ScribbleJtar -cf - /home/user/MyDocs | ssh user@host "dd of=Mydocs.tar"01:34
ScribbleJI left out the directory to tar.01:34
ScribbleJI'd compress it too if I were you.01:34
ScribbleJtar -czf - /home/user/MyDocs | ssh user@host "dd of=Mydocs.tgz"01:34
SpeedEvilt-tan: thannks - I have find that's not broken01:34
maromaderScribbleJ, thanks, I forgot about " " in ssh :-)01:35
ptlt-tan: for testing and such01:35
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maromaderdo you know if /home/user/* is the same in all regions (US, Europe, Asia, etc.), or there are multiple versions of user directory? perhaps I could create "standard packages" with /home/user/ contents to download for people who are doing repartitioning?01:36
t-tanptl: why don't you just use the scratchbox shell?01:36
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t-tanmaromader: you mean packages of the MyDocs folder contents?01:38
ptlt-tan: well, it might be an issue that affects other applications, isn't it? I don't want to find out just when i need it01:38
SpeedEvilt-tan: oops - yes - it is optified - I misread df01:38
maromaderso instead of making backups yourself you could grab the contents from the net and put them on N900 after repartitioning01:38
ptland about GPS, accelerometer and such - it's dangerous experimenting on the device01:38
ptlit might mess up your phone01:38
ptlso it's best to test on the emulator first01:38
ptlwhen your program is stable, you do the device tests01:38
ptlthis is the rationale for the emulator in the first place, isn't it?01:39
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t-tanptl: I haven't played with GPS stuff (liblocation?) yet but if you could come up with some "replay GPS/accel from file" solution that could be useful01:40
SpeedEvilptl: practically - with a sane program - that doesn't touch contacts or phone or ... - there is little prospect of screwing stuff up if you're remotely sane01:40
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t-tanptl: if it doesn't exist already...01:40
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odin_hi folks01:41
t-tanptl: if you're only reading data (GPS etc) there's not much that can go wrong01:41
odin_just about to install debian etch/lenny/sarge i386 into VMWare Player01:42
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t-tanmaromader: but there are only a few demo movies and nothing relevant on MyDocs, isn't it?01:42
maromadert-tan, true, but after simple copy those directories aren't indexed by tracker anymore01:43
t-tanodin_: how do install three versions simultaneously??01:43
maromaderand I want to have N900 after repartitioning as close to the original as possible01:43
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odin_into 3 different container files (or partitions etc..)01:43
t-tanmaromader: you might run into some license problems with the defaullt contents01:45
maromadert-tan, yeah, you're right... then just a guide how to make those backups yourself01:45
t-tanmaromader: I have a backup on my HD - and I only repartitioned once...01:46
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maromadert-tan, I want to make a set of scripts which will do almost all work for you01:47
embeddedhi all01:47
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t-tanmaromader: if you want to make reparitioning easier you could start with compiling typical partioning scenarios so that we know how could make ke-recv and rcS-late more flexible01:49
t-tanmaromader: I think everybody maintains his own scripts for partitioning and we're all reinventing the wheel...01:50
ptlt-tan: ok...01:51
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uhsfdoes someone here use usb to connect a n900 to a pc? how to do this? the howto doesn't work for me01:54
maromadert-tan, will do when I finish this "basic" version :)01:54
odin_uhsf,  is the PC Windows or Linux ?01:55
odin_what desktop environment ?  when you hookup the N900 you select Mass Storage Controller ?01:55
t-tanmaromader: ok, cool. what is your "basic" version?01:55
uhsfodin_: i select pc suite, i want to ssh to and from my pc01:56
maromadert-tan, method wrapped in 3 scripts01:56
odin_uhsf, I use WLAN for SSH myself, no idea about PC Suite Mode and Linux PC host01:56
maromaderpc suite is useful if you don't want MyDocs and SD card remounted on linux box01:57
t-tanmaromader: I don't think more than one ext2 parition makes sense01:57
uhsfmaromader: what exactly is the use of pc suite mode if i can't ssh?01:58
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maromadert-tan, so, put all of / on mmc?01:58
t-tanmaromader: you'd have to repartition whenever one partition is full01:58
odin_uhsf, I guess to talk to the PC Suite Tooling ?01:58
maromaderuhsf, you can ssh over the air :)01:58
odin_uhsf, what is the point of built in WLAN if you can't SSH !01:58
uhsfi can ssh with wifi01:59
maromadert-tan, then I will have to modify the bootloader to boot system from mmc, right?01:59
uhsfit's the usb connection that is useless01:59
t-tanmaromader: not necessarly, only the stuff that is frequently accessed.01:59
ph1lwhat are the programs witch mounts /home? doesn't have to be within /etc/event.d? i'm so confused...01:59
uhsfi should plug it in the wall socket i would be as much useful01:59
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t-tanmaromader: for now, I'd keep usr on / and opt for full optications01:59
maromadert-tan, you mean on that small 256 MB cripple of system partition? :-)02:00
odin_is PC Suite Mode just a PPP connection over USB ?02:00
maromadert-tan, I like FHS, I'm not a fan of optification02:00
t-tanmaromader: yes, if all addon sw goes to /opt there's no problem02:01
DocScrutinizerthere's still /usr & /var problem02:01
maromaderyeah, /usr is big02:01
maromaderI don't know about /var though02:01
odin_t-tan, thans not ture... dpkg/apt do not scale02:01
uhsfodin_: how a ppp connection over usb could be used?02:01
t-tanmaromader: FHS doesn't conflict with "real" optification, ie. no symlinks in /02:01
ph1lah, and anybody knows the source of the SIM-pin entry dialog while startup?02:02
odin_t-tan, rootfs has major problem is software repos for Maemo5 start to spring up and devel/testing packages get promoted02:02
t-tanyes, /var should be moved to eMMC, too02:02
odin_I hope N900 is a success and I hope the number of packages in stable increase 10 fold02:03
odin_then what is Nokia going to do02:03
maromaderright now I'm using Ruskie's partition setup, I was planning to change it when scripts will be stable to include /var on MMC02:03
uhsfplease someone explain the purpose of this page if it's impossible to ping anything else than the n900 itself02:03
maromaderuhsf, it is possible, I've done it02:03
maromaderusing the guide02:04
* DocScrutinizer suggests to grab a book about arbitrary distro config and (esp) partitioning - *from 1999!!*02:04
maromaderbesides, why do you need usb networking of you have wifi?02:04
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t-tanodin_: I think the next FW update should move /var to /home/var on the first boot02:04
DocScrutinizerback then hackers knew how to partition a system02:04
odin_t-tan, great idea, I hope Nokia do it and support it02:05
uhsfi always prefer wired when i'm home02:05
TonzasAnyone got any clue, that when ovi maps 3.03 will be available on the n900? :o02:05
maromaderuhsf, it's a *portable* device :-)02:05
maromaderwhy would you want to tether it to a wall?02:05
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uhsfmaromader: are you sure you pinged outside the n900 over usb and it was not the wifi that went on automatically cause that's what it always keeps doing02:06
t-tanodin_: we could file a bug report like: I have installed 100 packages from extras* and now my /var/ is too large to fit on NAND02:06
DocScrutinizermaybe because of anti-wlan policy of the location/company you're at?02:06
maromaderuhsf, yes, I'm sure02:06
uhsfi did the exact same thing as in the guide at least 10 times02:07
maromaderDocScrutinizer, he's talking about his home02:07
odin_t-tan, file a bug, I've tested the prospect that extras-testing and extra-devel packages all get promoted to extras and the number of packages double (over the expected lifetime of the N900) and now my rootfs is full02:07
odin_t-tan, also I did not install any of these extras package, I merely added the repo02:08
odin_t-tan, urgent scalability concern within the expected lifetime of the N90002:08
t-tanodin_: please a go ahead, if you already have data. I'd vote for the bug02:08
odin_t-tan, I don't have the data02:09
t-tanodin_: the App manager also doesn't scale well (unlike dpkg/apt) - it's already too slow for me02:09
odin_t-tan, well dpkg/apt reallt isn't that fast either, try, time dpkg -l02:10
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t-tanodin_: already started. I'll let you know when it finishes ;-)02:11
t-tanodin_: another design flaw are the dependencies of all the language packages02:12
odin_t-tan, what you mean there should be a mechnism to say, "XXX-en is optional if MASTER-en is not installed, but mandatory is MASTER-en is installed"02:13
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odin_t-tan, so the virtual package MASTER-en is installed, it will automatically cause all EN language related stuff to be dragged in for the packages you have installed02:14
odin_t-tan, where you application is just "XXX"02:14
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t-tanodin_:  the PR package should not depend on all language packs. there should be metapackages for every luanguage and maybe en could be required as default. you'd get updates if the package is installed, but you could remove all languages you don't need02:16
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uhsfmaromader: the guide says to install usb-network-modules but the package can't be found02:19
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maromaderuhsf, what system do you use on the pc?02:20
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DocScrutinizerg_ether, cdc_ether02:23
maromaderuhsf, well, ubuntu worked for me... maybe your kernel lacks usb networking support?02:23
t-tangood night. bye!02:24
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uhsfDocScrutinizer: i already have cdc_ether because i use usb networking with my neo freerunner02:25
uhsfbut g_ether gives FATAL: Error inserting g_ether (/lib/modules/2.6.32-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/gadget/g_ether.ko): No such device02:25
DocScrutinizeruhsf: so I'd say for N900 it's quite the same02:25
maromaderuhsf, fellow FreeRunner owner, hi there :)02:25
maromaderuhsf, ah, I remember02:26
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maromaderuhsf, on n900:02:26
maromaderifconfig usb0 down02:26
maromaderedit /etc/network/interface02:26
uhsfi found a new purpose for my neo freerunner yesterday02:26
maromaderadd network and gateway
maromaderifup usb002:26
maromaderuhsf, tell me02:27
uhsfmy freerunner now serves as a step under my n900's kick stand so it's raised at the right angle02:27
maromaderhehe, nice one :)02:27
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maromaderanybody knows how to ask tracker nicely to reindex it's files?02:28
DocScrutinizermaromader: check how init does it02:29
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maromaderwell, right now I have no idea, but something is changing even when I save the files from /home/user/MyDocs using tar. for example, autorun.inf is visible in the file manager (wasn't before repartitioning). any idea what changed?02:38
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maromaderall video files, music, images are where they're expected in the file manager02:39
maromaderbut media player or image viewer don't pickup them (that means tracker doesn't)02:39
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odin_where can I get Debian i386 ETCH from ?02:45
maromadertracker picks up new files... so maybe that's the timestamp issue? hmmm02:46
odin_thanks but can't see Etch or Debian-4.0 in (also I'm after ISOs or the netinstall ISO anyhow)02:47
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maromaderthen perhaps it's still in oldstable02:48
odin_thanks looking02:48
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maromaderI'm going to sleep, good night02:50
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jacekowskidoes n900 have option to disable data in roaming?02:58
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jebbaodin_: whatcha want etch for?03:05
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odin_jebba,  to install into VMWare player03:16
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yes. there's an applet to show a button on powerbuuton menu for that03:24
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: and of course you have flightmode button there ootb03:26
odin_found a mirror at
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jacekowskihow long does it take to unpack easydebian?03:39
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uhsfwhy n900 can only ping and nothing else with usb cable?04:26
uhsfi followed the guide carefully but it fails to ping the outside world04:27
uhsfifconfing usb0 gives the same output as in the guide except RX bytes:0 TX bytes:0 at the end04:28
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uhsfusb networking with neo freerunner works fine so why the n900 fails04:28
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uhsfi would be at the step: If you can not ping the outside world (for example: local network works but Google does not), check your routing tables.04:33
uhsfbut it doesn't give indications about how to change routing tables04:33
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uhsfwhy the stupid wifi keeps connecting after i configured it not to do so04:37
ds3is this an N800?04:38
Ken-Younguhsf, Well, USB networking on the Freerunner is the *only* form of networking on that platform which works reliably.04:39
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luke-jruhsf: routing is unrelated to the device04:41
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luke-jruhsf: nobody can tell you why your desktop PC's routing works with one device but not the other04:41
luke-jrat least not with so little information04:41
ds3N800 + static IP shows the same symptoms for me with the at one point latest upgrade04:42
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uhsfnobody here ever connected a n900 via usb networking and could post his configuration?04:45
uhsfwhy is it so hard to connect a n900 via usb, i have everything to defaults my n900 is brand new04:46
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uhsfmy freerunner works fine so obviously all networking modules are set in my workstation04:47
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luke-jruhsf: USB networking works just like Ethernet or Wifi networking04:48
luke-jruhsf: it connects System A to System B04:48
uhsfi couldn't follow the guide more carefully04:48
luke-jrif you want System B to bridge System A's link to another interface, you need to configure System B to do that04:48
uhsfi simply want to ssh to my n900 from my pc via usb04:50
luke-jrthat should work fine04:50
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uhsfifup usb0 on my n900 doesn't give any ouput04:51
uhsfso it should be fine04:51
uhsfthen ifconfig usb0 gives the same output as in the guide04:51
uhsfi can ping from my n90004:52
uhsfbut that's useless to self ping the n900 i don't know why the guide says to do this04:52
uhsfthe problem is i can't ping the n900 from my pc04:52
uhsfor ping anything else from my n90004:53
luke-jruhsf: did you configure the interface on your PC?04:53
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uhsfthe interface is in /etc/rc.conf04:54
uhsfwhere else should it be configured?04:54
luke-jrtotally OS dependent04:55
luke-jruhsf: ping6 FF02:0:0:0:0:0:0:1%usb004:56
luke-jruhsf: pastebin the output04:56
uhsffrom my pc or n900?04:57
luke-jrI imagine it's easier to type on PC04:57
uhsfsocket: Address family not supported by protocol04:58
luke-jruhsf: computer fail :p04:59
luke-jrmodprobe ipv604:59
uhsfwhy ipv6?05:00
luke-jrbecause it works sanely? :p05:01
uhsfi don't need ipv6 yet05:01
luke-jrassuming N900 has it setup >.>05:01
luke-jruhsf: everyone needs IPv605:01
luke-jrand it's the easiest way to do a p2p link like you want05:01
uhsfi don't want to mess my whole system networking just to solve this problem05:02
uhsfi'll switch to ipv6 when my isp does05:02
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luke-jrit won't mess anything05:04
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uhsfok i think i got it05:19
uhsfty, luke-jr for leading me in the right direction05:19
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acidjazzsup guise07:33
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dracflamlocjust gt my n900, so just been playing with it for the past 6 hours =p07:52
prontodracflamloc: becareful, the micro usb port on it is very weak07:53
dracflamlocyea i know.07:53
dracflamlockinda scares me07:53
prontomine broke07:53
pronto  <<07:53
prontotreat that port like a newborn baby , born only hours ago07:54
dracflamloclol, yea im trying07:54
prontoand if you wnat to file down the hooks of doom on the charger07:54
prontoor get a diffent one wiht out hooks of doom x.x07:55
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jebbamine broke too08:09
microlithman, people must be seriously harsh on their micro-usb ports08:09
jebbait was a new unit08:09
prontomicrolith: not really08:10
microliththat sounds like there's an issue when soldering down the connector08:10
prontothe n900 port is very weak08:10
villagermy micro-usb port hasn't broken yet...08:16
villagerand I haven't been that careful08:16
prontowell mabye you should08:16
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rm_youyeah mine broke yesterday08:31
rm_youno indication of problem at all, then yesterday intermittant charging, looking at the port it looked a bit angled, then this morning it popped out08:32
* luke-jr is glad he didn't buy a N90008:33
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rm_youyeah gonna wait on buying one until i know they fixed the problem08:33
rm_youdon't want another to break within 6 months08:34
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rm_youor even less08:34
rm_youthat or a nexus one, but GA says he'll come kick my ass if i buy one of those :P08:34
RST38hgoogle will protect you from him08:36
RST38hthey will sense ninjas in black helicopters etc08:36
luke-jrrm_you: get a Nexus Two then?08:37
rm_youi wish the nexus had a keyboard08:37
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luke-jrI hear N2 will08:37
rm_youlol, just gotta hold out then, eh?08:37
rm_youwhat about n910? :P08:37
luke-jrI'm holding out for the LG Apollo or something similar08:37
luke-jr1 GB *real* RAM08:38
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luke-jr1.3 GHz08:38
rm_yougah, gotta run T_T08:38
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luke-jror maybe I'll build something custom if I can get ahold of a board with that dual 1.5 GHz Snapdragon <.<08:38
microlithhave fun with that (and the case you'll be hauling it around in)08:39
luke-jrmicrolith: who needs a case? :P08:39
microlithI know, I like hauling around bare PCBs too08:39
luke-jrI'd probably just sew some fabric around it or something08:39
RST38h"National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair told representatives that American citizens can be assassinated by the US government when they are oveseas"08:39
luke-jrthe hard part will be finding a keyboard I like08:40
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luke-jrmaybe I can dissect my C760 for parts08:40
luke-jrnot sure it's useful for anything else now08:40
RST38hjust buy a phone.08:41
microlithundocumented hardware is a riot to dissect08:41
luke-jrmicrolith: even keyboards?08:41
luke-jrRST38h: I would if I could find one I was happy with :/08:41
luke-jrbut once I get past 2 requirements, nobody makes it -.-08:42
luke-jrusually RAM is a big limiting factor08:42
microliththe real world is just now catching up with luke-jr's requirements08:43
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microlithhell samsung's still in sample phase on all of its 1GByte OneNAND devices08:45
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RST38hluke: HD2-like HTC phone with Android is apparently coming08:47
RST38hIt should do the trick08:47
RST38hOr buy an N900 already08:47
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luke-jrRST38h: minus the keyboard :P09:10
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RST38hluke: N900 then09:15
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luke-jrRST38h: my requirements for RAM are up to 500 MB now :P09:30
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luke-jrand why would I get a N900 now after I've been hearing all these complaints in here? XD09:30
MistaEDit works for me *shrugs*09:33
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lpotterworks for me too09:35
RST38hluke: what do you do with RAM? =)09:35
luke-jrRST38h: run KDE 409:36
* RST38h facepalms09:36
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RST38hwell, people always complain, that is natural09:36
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zetherooI have an N800 and the screen is flickering ... do I need to replace the screen?09:42
luke-jrzetheroo: too little data09:44
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luke-jrI know that my N810's screen will always flicker with my experimental 2.6.32 kernel09:44
zetheroothe screen starts jittering after being on for an hour or so .. sometimes it does it as soon as its powered on09:44
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zetheroojust wondering if its a hardware of software issue ..09:46
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ShadowJKother people with n800 have reported jitter/scrolling too09:51
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RST38hIt happens at the end.10:02
RST38h  Before your N800 dies.10:02
RST38h      Start funeral preparations now.10:02
* Stskeeps cries over his n80010:04
zetheroopretty short lifetime10:05
zetheroopaid just over 300 bucks for this thing and about a year into its life it's already "at the end"!?10:07
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shamuswekk yah have to rember even if you baughit it "new" it's still old10:22
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luke-jrzetheroo: what?10:26
luke-jrI bought my N810 a year ago and it was only $20010:26
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luke-jrwhy on earth would you have paid $300 for a N800??10:27
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zetherooI bought my N800 about 18 months ago ... but its been doing this for the past 5-6 months ...10:28
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Xisdibikluke-jr: have you tested out the freeciv on the n900 at all?10:35
luke-jrXisdibik: will do so as soon as someone buys me a N90010:36
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XisdibikI sent you one months ago!10:36
Xisdibikmusta got lost in the mail :/10:36
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Xisdibikhas anyone tried out the freeciv game on the n900?10:37
tank-manwhy do you ask?10:38
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zetherooshould I switch it back to the original version of Maemo?10:39
zetheroowould that make any diff?10:39
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Xisdibiktank-man: wondering how it looks on such a small screen and how nice it runs10:40
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zetherooI really liked the N800 ... possibly as much as the N810 ... or a bit more10:41
zetheroohas anyone here been using their Nokia tablet without a screen protector?10:42
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zetherooI am just wondering if the screen will get all scratched up without one!?10:43
ifreqzetheroo: it may.. or not.10:43
XisdibikI am using my n900 without a screen protector10:43
Xisdibikand its been fine sofar10:43
zetherooI tried replacing the original screen protector but its not nice as there are bits of dust etc under it10:43
ifreqit really handles how you handle em.. do you keep your phone in same pocket as keys etc..10:44
zetherooifreq: oh no ... never .. I am talking about using the stylus mainly10:44
zetheroowill the stylus scratch the screen?10:44
Stskeepsdepends if you sharpen it10:45
Xisdibikdoubt it, unless you were trying to scratch it10:45
ifreqzetheroo: it wont, its not sharp.10:45
zetheroowell i just noticed that the screen protectors get all scratched from the stylus10:45
zetheroowith lines all over the place etc..10:45
Stskeepsbut i enjoyed having a scrprotector on my older tablets10:46
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luke-jrnow even Facebook is trying to sell me a N90010:46
Xisdibikjust buy it luke-jr10:47
luke-jrtoo small, not enough RAM, etc etc10:47
ifreqso you dont have money to buy it?10:47
* Xisdibik erases luke-jr's memory10:47
Xisdibikgo buy a n90010:47
zetheroowhats the n900 have over the n810?10:47
fluxgaah, now even irc is trying to sell you n900 ;)10:47
Xisdibikit fits in your pocket without girls thinkin ur a perv10:48
luke-jrifreq: I spent $800 on my first handheld. I'd do it again if something could compare on a modern level. ;P10:48
luke-jrzetheroo: GSM?10:48
shamusn900 is like two years newere has a 3d chip and gsm10:48
luke-jrshamus: the N900's 3D is builtin to the main chip just like the N8x0's was :P10:48
zetheroogsm ... meaning I can make/receive mobile phone calls10:49
luke-jrzetheroo: also, N8x0 had even LESS RAM10:49
luke-jrzetheroo: yes10:49
Xisdibikluke-jr: im a pretty picky phone user, and the n900 literally is the best phone ive ever had10:49
zetheroowhat the best price out there for one of them?10:49
luke-jrXisdibik: no doubt. N900 can make a pretty nice phone. But I don't want a phone.10:49
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XisdibikUS or europe?10:49
Xisdibikluke-jr: yes you do, i know what you want :), you dont10:50
luke-jrXisdibik: I want a handheld computer. if it can bridge my bluetooth headset to phone calls, that's an added bonus.10:50
Xisdibikanyone without a n900 clearly doesnt know what they want, or doesnt have their priorities straight :P10:50
shamusthen again the reasion i would not get a n900 is it lacks the one gms 3g band i need to get 3g speeds on that one network10:50
luke-jrXisdibik: anyhow, under 4" screen is a no-go  :P10:50
Xisdibikget a 7" LCD, and use TVout? :p10:51
luke-jrthat's too big to be a handheld10:51
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Xisdibik4.5" then :P10:51
ifreqbuy some legos10:51
luke-jrif that were the only requirement of mine N900 didn't meet, I might consider that10:52
luke-jrbut it isn't :P10:52
Xisdibikget an ipad? :p10:52
Xisdibiklol jokin10:52
ifreqbuy zaurus10:53
luke-jrrather N900 than an iPad10:53
luke-jrifreq: have one, that's what I'm looking to replace10:53
luke-jr64 MB RAM doesn't cut it anymore :p10:53
Xisdibikipad looks fail10:53
luke-jrZaurus = 64 MB RAM10:53
luke-jralso, its battery is fail10:53
Xisdibikipads 16GB - 64GB of space is fail10:53
luke-jrno literally10:54
luke-jrmy Z's battery lasts about 5 minutes now10:54
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zetheroothe n900 seems very similar to the n9710:56
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zetherooluke-jr, there are SO many things i would rather have than an iPad :P10:57
luke-jrexcept the N97 is designed to be a phone10:57
luke-jrand the N900 is (supposedly) designed to be a handheld10:57
ifreqluke-jr: what about this:
ifreqbeen lookin it myself for a while10:58
tank-manim waiting for ipad knock offs for $100 :)10:58
zetherooluke-jr: but even the N97 has a slide out keyboard and 32GB storage ...10:58
zetherootank-man; i am waiting for the Lenovo U1 Hybrid :)10:58
luke-jrtank-man: they're $300 at the moment, and 2 years old10:59
tank-manwhat is it a hybrid of?10:59
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luke-jrifreq: looks just a little too big11:00
zetherootank-man: tablet/notebook11:00
zetherootank-man: tablet runs Linux and the notebook runs Windows 7 ...11:00
zetheroowell i would definitely have a N900 over an iPad ... no question about that11:01
tank-mansounds expensive11:01
ifreqluke-jr: then youre out of options11:01
zetherootank-man: actually its going to be available for under $100011:02
luke-jrifreq: for the moment, perhaps :)11:02
luke-jrifreq: I'm somewhat patient.11:02
zetherooI hope my N810 screen last a bit longer than the N800 did ... :(11:03
zetherooseems like a great many people have been having this issue with the N800 ... strangely no word from Nokia on the subject ...11:04
zetherooI am using maemo OS2008 on my N810 ... is that the latest and greatetst?11:05
zetheroogreatest ...11:05
shamushow is mer progressing?11:06
Nitialhmm, trying to install mad-developer package to tryout madde, but it says the install file is corrupted..11:07
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shamusdilblo(os2008)  is the last os for the n8X0 that nokia released11:07
zetherooand what is Maemo 5? can i put that on my N810?11:08
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shamusmaemo 5 is n900 only :-(11:09
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zetherooso there are no more worlds to conquer .. :P11:10
luke-jrzetheroo: Nokia stopped supporting N8x0 in 200811:10
zetherooahh .. I see11:11
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vanadismobilehai thar11:12
luke-jrMer is trying to put the pieces together to update N8x0 a little longer, but most probably it won't ever get on par11:12
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FlyserCan I somehow "let the n900 believe" that it has internet connection? I set up USB networking, but the app manager wont even try to download an application, but asks me to connect to some wifi ...11:13
crashanddielol at people showing off how they've spent on technology11:14
crashanddies/how/how much/11:14
infobotcrashanddie meant: lol at people show muching off how they've spent on technology11:14
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zetheroohmmm ... is there a flasher for 64bit Linux? (Ubuntu)11:16
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woglindezethero it should run with ia32-libs11:16
zetheroothat in the repos ... ?11:17
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MOUDhey all11:18
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FlyserDifferent question: Is there a workaround to connect to 802.1x wifi networks? (WPA-EAP, TKIP, TTLS)11:18
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zetheroowoglinde: checked and have that installed already11:19
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MOUDwhen i try to run a .flv file i get an error about media format not supported. the problem is that after i get this error, no audio or video works so i have to restart my phone. How can i fix it?11:20
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shamushave you checked the bug report page?11:26
RurouniJonesAnyone tried to run Mnemosyne on their N900 yet?11:27
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MOUDnot really11:27
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zetherooanyone here play Vultures Eye?11:33
zetheroois it any good?11:33
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zetherooI am using OMWeather applet but for some reason its not showing any weather info on the screen ... everything is n/a ... but when i go into the settings i can see the info11:40
johnqI'd like to improve . Can someone tell me the exact description of the "Version" entry in the .desktop file?11:40
Corsachmhm, will the Elena talk on maemo security be streamed?11:40
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woglindecorsac dont know11:42
johnqok, it seems that it is already specified by the freeedesktop standard, thank you nevertheless ;-)11:44
johnqok, it's not absolutely clear11:45
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johnqThe freedesktop description ( ) says that this value is supposed to denote the version of the .desktop file specification used, i.e. "1.0". Nevertheless many applications on my file use "0.1". Is this a maemo speciality or simply wrong?11:47
Dantonichey anyone know anything about aotuv?11:52
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fralswow, 802.11n at helsinki airport :>13:00
fragmentwhat did you expect then..?;)13:01
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kuriirifrals: what, it also works? :)13:02
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kuriirifirst time for everything :D13:03
SpeedEvilthey put the n in helsinki for a reason!13:03
fragmentyes. otherwise it would be helsib/gki or even helsiki13:03
kuriirior helsicki13:04
fralscoming from arlanda airport in stockholm where i pretty much had to use my 3g it was a bit of a surprise13:04
fralsjust need to find a power outlet now :P13:04
`0660frals, is it free? :o13:05
fralsim curious about the "N900testi" network i find as well... :P13:05
kuriirifrals: are you leaving?13:05
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kuriirior coming :D13:05
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kuriirifrals: there should be some right to the big windows near gates 28-2913:06
kuriiribehind the shops =)13:06
fragmentI set up a repo and .install file for my demo(s).. could someone try it out?
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fralskuriiri: cheers, ill have a look there, stsill 50%  to go on the laptop so should be good for another 2 hrs :)13:09
wazdheya all13:09
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kuriirifrals: at what time is your flight?13:10
frals1655 :D13:11
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fralschecked out of the hotel at 12 and well, helsinki in the winter isnt too exciting ;)13:12
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fragmentfrals: are you at the oak barrel?;)13:15
kuriirihaha.. if not, you should!13:15
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fralslol the oak barrel is actually right behind me13:18
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orodent?DCC SEND "diaper_jesus" 0 0 013:45
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tremcrashanddie: I've found a solution to my dns problem13:46
crashanddietrem: oh?13:46
tremcrashanddie: instead of using my box as DNS, I've used orange dns13:46
bleeterfor those who ain't seen it, duke nukem 3d on n900 with wiimote :)13:48
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crashanddietrem: interesting13:52
crashanddiebleeter: the word you were looking for was "haven't"13:52
tremcrashanddie: but I don't understand why ....13:52
bleetercrashanddie: you say tomato, I say tomato :P13:52
crashanddiebleeter: pronouncing a word differently is quite a long way from using a non-existent word altogether13:53
bleetercrashanddie: quite happily take you around the local suburbs here and let you listen to the use of this 'non-existent' word13:54
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crashanddiebleeter: you're not in the burbs here, dawg13:55
felipecbleeter? I didn't know you were a maemo user13:56
bleetercrashanddie: I believe the word you were looking for was 'bloke'13:56
bleeterfelipec: waiting local release sometime next month, just idling atm13:56
crashanddiebleeter: I've never used the word bloke, and neither has anyone in the UK in the past 40 years13:57
bleeterfelipec: getting my head 'round some of the ... quaintness that's the nokia distribution channels13:57
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bleetercrashanddie: luckily for you, I'm not in the UK otherwise I'd be inclined to respect your dialect13:58
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DENZEL_FOXX?DCC SEND "ff???f?" 0 0 013:58
DENZEL_FOXX?DCC SEND "ff???f?" 0 0 013:58
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Caesiumsome new exploit doing the rounds/13:58
bleeterhave they moved to their new IRC yet?13:59
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Corsac  python-all-dev: Depends: python-all (= 2.5.2-3maemo1) but 2.5.2-3maemo3 is to be installed13:59
Corsacdid someone experienced this in sdk?13:59
Corsac(it's an old sdk install upgraded through apt-get)14:00
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crashanddieplease do highlight me if there's another issue as with DENZEL_FOXX14:01
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crashanddiealso, if someone is unable to talk because of the ban on unregistered users, same thing, I'll take it down14:01
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bleeterstaff member told me it just happened in #freenode, too hehe14:02
jaskathat dcc exploit is pretty old14:02
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bleeteryar someone's saying old mirc, or old router tricks14:04
jaskawell, also some old windows av, if you add the start.keylogger part (minus the .)14:04
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TRCany good download manger for maemo 5 ?14:05
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TRCor some port of axel ?14:05
SpeedEvilI suppose suggesting wget isn't helpful14:06
jaskaaxel is somewhat like a parallel wget so14:06
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MOUDHey again14:07
TRCjaska : well yes, but like 10 times faster. :)14:07
MOUDis it possible to use VLC by compiling the source code? If so, how can I do it?14:07
jaskadepends on the connection and the server :)14:07
bleeterfelipec: btw, OHAI ;) happy new year :)14:08
TRCjaska : correct, and the route to that server. yet having more than one connection to that server makes your download a lot faster14:08
TRCim sure you know that jaska :)14:08
TRCso, there isnt any dowload manger for n900 ?14:09
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felipecbleeter: happy new year :)14:09
bleeterI rate limit people who have more than one connection to the same file on my machines14:09
felipecany interesting projects for the N900?14:09
TRCwait, can transmission handle http ?14:10
jaskatrc: when i said connection i meant all the way :)14:10
simoneb_how do i launch an application from the command line (or from another app)? dbus-launch?14:10
bleeterfelipec: none that I could tell you about without having to kill you later ;)14:10
felipecbleeter: eww, closed source?14:11
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simoneb_or is <application here> enough?14:12
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sky-gscrew closed source n900 projects  :)14:12
sky-gunless youre making something really unique...14:13
sky-gI dont get all the people doing tiny bad implementations on maemo and not inviting others to improve14:15
TRCbtw, i just noticed that /var/www is called wwwPHP14:15
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bleetergiven n900's a leapfrog device to maemo6, yes I'd agree by and large closed source projects for a small team would be fairly fruitless14:16
TRCis the because the lighttpd package comes with php support?14:16
sky-gif youre doing a big commercial grade app thats fine but a lot of times people realase closed stuff thats nothing special imho14:16
Corsacare there some specific lintian test for maemo?14:18
bleetersky-g: I'd argue there's still no killer mobile app been created yet, either closed or open14:18
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sky-gwould be better to invite others to improve but everyone's trying to appear cool and unique or something. specially true for tiny hacks...  why closed14:18
sky-gbleeter I agree14:19
SpeedEvilbleeter: angry birds!14:20
bleetersky-g: 4sq *might* be it, dunno14:20
bleeterSpeedEvil: ?14:20
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sky-g:) haven't tried yet. everyone's buzzing about it14:20
SpeedEvilbleeter: angry birds is a very simple game.14:21
Corsac./scratchbox/tools/bin/ wtf14:21
sky-gangry birds i mean.14:21
TRCguys, does the lighttpd package come with php support ?14:21
SpeedEvilDepends what the closed source project is.14:21
StskeepsCorsac: yes wtf14:21
Corsachey Stskeeps14:22
SpeedEvilFor example - I'd be quite happy to buy a nice closed-source OCR package.14:22
CorsacStskeeps: that stuff looks familiar?14:22
TRCand one more thing, did anyone manage to get libgarmin working with navit ?14:22
SpeedEvilWhere nice = ~what came with my scanner as a freebie in 199614:22
CorsacI just tried to build a package inside scratchbox14:22
StskeepsCorsac: sadly14:22
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Corsachow do I fix that? :)14:22
bleeterSpeedEvil, sky-g: Not available for N97 :(14:22
StskeepsCorsac: what about it?14:22
CorsacI just tried to build a python package using dpkg-buildpackage inside scratchbox14:23
SpeedEvilOr a closed source speech recognition package14:23
Corsac(source package taken from debian)14:23
Stskeepsneed to divert python then prolly14:23
sky-gn97 whats that?  ;) ;)14:23
SpeedEvilWhat would you pay for a nice package that voice-recognised and indexed all your inbound and outbound calls and enabled you to search on text for example.14:24
Corsacto divert python??14:24
Corsacit's just a python application14:24
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bleetersky-g: it's what Aussies own whilst waiting for the March release of n900 'coz they want local warranty support ;)14:24
Stskeepsfull context please14:24
CorsacStskeeps: I took a python package (python-scapy) from debian, and tried to build it inside scratchbox to then upload it to extras14:24
bleeterSpeedEvil: depends if the voice recognition replaced cursing with #### like Google does ;)14:24
sky-gSpeedEvil: whats the usecase? googling stuff you talk about on the phone?  never occurred to me...14:25
StskeepsCorsac: ok, pastebin of error?14:26
sky-gG voice search is useful though14:26
CorsacI don't think there's any error in the build, it's just that stuff are installed to /scratchbox/tools instead of /usr/bin14:26
ShadowJKwhy the hell would google censor like that14:26
sky-gworks wonders on the iphone14:27
StskeepsCorsac: it is :/14:27
StskeepsCorsac: point to native python using PATH.. there should be info somewhere on this14:27
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sky-guh logging off xchat now. gotta14:29
sky-goops. gotta go work on setting up new build machine and do something useful insteadof coomplaining14:30
StskeepsCorsac: need to adjust PATH in packaging14:30
Stskeepsto look in /usr/bin first14:30
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SpeedEvilsky-g: Finding when someone spoke about x to you.14:32
SpeedEvilOr who you spoke to about x14:32
CorsacStskeeps: ok, yet another broken stuff then14:32
SpeedEvilOr for voicemail - the incoming voicemail showing up as a banner of text on screen14:32
StskeepsCorsac: scratchbox joy14:32
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Corsachow comes that many tools and process end up being crippled when touching maemo stuff?14:34
Corsacoptify, scratchbox, etc.14:35
Corsacit puzzles me a little14:35
Stskeepsmobile devices vs big servers14:35
SpeedEvilFor a server - number of libs resident in RAM matters not at all14:35
CorsacI don't buy it14:36
SpeedEvilFor a mobile device - an extra percent of RAM use is not unimportant14:36
SpeedEvilAs it probably doesn't have 80% free after boot14:36
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Corsacwhat ram has to do with scratchbox or optification?14:36
SpeedEvilHowever s/RAM/root disk/ for opt14:37
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SpeedEviland s/RAM/ARM cpu/ for the other14:37
Corsacstill, opt is just a bad workaround14:37
Corsacpeople at emdebian work on that sort of stuff too, but it seems their experience has not really be used :)14:38
SpeedEvilThe right solution is not completely trivial.14:38
SpeedEvilIn that you want flashing to get the device to a sane state always - with a relatively small flash image.14:38
SpeedEvilWithout wiping all the users stuff.14:39
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SpeedEvilWell - come up with a nice simple solution - and patches to common tools to implement it - and you will be hailed as a hero!14:44
SpeedEvilOr ignored.14:44
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TRCif theres an arm package of a cli application at would they work ?14:50
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TRClets say the package is standalone, no deps.14:51
SpeedEvilthere are different architectures of arm14:51
SpeedEvilbut in principle - maybe14:51
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TRCi just read something about easy debian14:52
TRCthis would allowe me to use such an application for sure correct?14:52
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TRCi mean , if it can run something like openoffice , why couldnt it run a light application like axel.14:52
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TRCSpeedEvil : so can easy debian, run such cli applications from the package by debian?14:55
TRCnot installing them using apt onto maemo directly, but using easy debian.14:56
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RevdKathyhi all14:58
RevdKathyneed some help!14:58
crashanddie_TRC: nobody ever said openoffice was supported14:58
crashanddie_hey RevdKathy, how's it going?14:58
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SpeedEvilTRC: not tried it14:58
RevdKathyBig sister's pc has a nasty case of Windows Protection suite14:59
RevdKathyHi Seb14:59
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SpeedEvilIn principle - in a chroot - anything should be able to run that can run on the architecture and doesn't have conflicting requirements14:59
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RevdKathyanyone any experience wv hat?14:59
SpeedEvilOr too large a RAM footprint14:59
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RevdKathymy day went west till I can fix it15:00
crashanddieRevdKathy: how do you know my name?15:01
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RevdKathysorry - is it not appopriate to use it? am on n900 and your username is long to type!15:01
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crashanddienot the question, just asking how you know it15:01
crashanddieanyway, what's the issue with Windows Protection?15:02
RevdKathyyou have been addressed as such on tmo15:02
RevdKathyyou have been addressed as such on tmo15:02
crashanddiedamn you lcuk15:02
RevdKathyit's malware and it screws the drivers folder15:02
RevdKathyis lcuk here?15:02
crashanddiewell, he's online, if he's here is another story15:02
RevdKathythough he was at FOSDEM15:02
infobotcrashanddie meant: well, he's online, whether he's here is another story15:03
crashanddieRevdKathy: I guess you've gone through the usuals, spybot s&d etc?15:03
RevdKathyyeah - was hoping one of them would fix15:03
RevdKathyspybot is beaten - can't make the nec changes15:04
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: big master of xchat mods, how about less crome to shrink the input textfield (almost 2 lines hight now), removing the dangerous chantab close [X}, and ##make scrollbutton hotarea MUUUCH LARGER## ? Earn further eternal merits :-)15:07
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: I don't need round corners in input textfield ;-). And a separate fontsize for nick selector/display also came in handy15:15
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TRCplease have a look at the reply to this post
TRCthis guy is talking about something called scratchbox, what is it exactly -- where can i get it ?15:32
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fralsloving how the free wlan at helsinki airport is kinda in the centre, and i found a power outlet by my gate, but only wlan up there was some shit that was 5€ per hr15:34
TRCthis is what he's talking about ?15:35
Stskeepsmaemo sdk, trc15:36
Corsacis there some kind of ACK when uploading a package to extras-devel?15:37
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TRCStskeeps : is it really as simple as this guys puts it ? i compile stuff using my desktop using the maemo sdk and then copy the binaries to the device ?15:37
StskeepsCorsac: extras-cauldron15:39
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ndnihil? linux15:42
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pupnikmissed most of the council talk15:45
crashanddieTRC: answer: yes15:48
tremcrashanddie: you're a maemo contributor ?15:51
TRCthe damn virtual machine is 2gb!15:52
TRCand my connection is of a damn 256kbps speed!15:52
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Corsacis someone at Elena's talk?15:54
TRCcrashanddie : i got axel from and extracted the deb file and tried to run the binary file - it keeps telling me no permission15:55
TRCany idea why this is happening ?15:55
crashanddieTRC: where did you unzip it?15:55
SpeedEvilon mydocs?15:55
TRCi did chmod +x but it keeps giving the same error15:55
crashanddieyeah, the fat partition has noexec as mount flag15:55
TRCcrashanddie : /home/user/MyDocs/Downloads15:56
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TRCbtw should i get the arml packages or the arm ones ?15:57
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TRCcrashanddie : and how is that fixed ?15:58
crashanddieTRC: move the directory to /usr ?15:58
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TRCwill do, brb15:58
zerojayAd2p works with the N900, right?15:59
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crashanddiezerojay: as far as I'm aware, ya16:00
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pupnikwifi range is average16:00
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zerojayThinking about picking up the Motorola S9 for bluetooth headphones.16:02
vanadismobilehow do i copypaste on n900?16:02
* Stskeeps tries to come up with a proper related abstract16:03
crashanddiectrl c, ctrl v16:03
vanadismobileah okay16:03
crashanddievanadismobile: who would've thought, eh?16:03
crashanddiepupnik: that statement was random16:04
TRCcrashanddie: that didnt work! :D16:05
TRCmoved the config file to etc and axel to /user/bin16:06
TRCcrashanddie : yes, go on..16:06
realitygapsmy usb port just fell out :(16:07
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TRCcrashanddie : isnt this what you told me to do ?16:08
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crashanddieTRC: did you chmod +x?16:08
TRCyes i did16:08
TRCits telling me not found!16:08
TRCbut i moved it to /usr/bin16:09
crashanddiecan someone else takeover?16:09
crashanddieI'm not in noob-mood tonight16:09
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: do your job16:09
TRCcrashanddie : seems like your out of solutions to me.16:10
TRCdid as you said, it just didnt work! :D16:10
crashanddieno, you're an idiot16:10
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crashanddieif it says "not found", it means you messed up in the directories, or copies16:10
crashanddienow, a normal person would be smart enough to realise that16:11
crashanddieinstead of blaming the one who's helping him16:11
crashanddiehence, all proving my initial point: you're an idiot16:11
TRCfirst, respect yourself.16:11
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TRC2nd ls shows the damn file16:11
Stskeepswhat is the first line of the file?16:12
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TRCits not a config file, stskeeps its binary.16:13
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crashanddieTRC: not necessarily, it can be text file, and the first line indicates what parser should be used16:14
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jacekowskidoes N900 support BT keyboards?16:14
crashanddieTRC: for example, #!/bin/bash could be the first line, and if /bin/bash doesn't exist, you could get a "file not found" error message16:14
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Stskeepscheck its a armel binary using 'file'.16:15
jacekowskithats called shebang16:15
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jacekowskiand you can get file not found if its using different runtime linker16:16
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jacekowskiwhich is very likely because maemo iirc uses uclibc16:16
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GAN900crashanddie, sorry, bad weekend for me.16:19
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* VDVsx yawns16:22
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lopzhi ;)16:39
pupnikwats nu16:39
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alteregoCan we not browse bluetooth devices in the file browser anymore? :(16:46
andre900alterego: is "we" you? ;-)16:48
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JaffaMorning, all17:17
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VDVsxmorning Jaffa :)17:18
uhsfbon matin, canal maemo17:19
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VDVsxItalian ? :D17:20
uhsffrench (quebec)17:20
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* lcukn900 waves from fosdem17:23
VDVsxlcukn900, beer event was good ? :D17:24
lcukn900mmm i had beer somewhere and paid for it with a headache this morning, so yeah it was good17:25
VDVsxthey've a lot of different beers there17:25
lcukn900i didnt get to the mega beer thing tho17:26
VDVsxlast year they had free beers as well, sponsored by google17:26
VDVsxyou just missed the best part of Fosdem ;)17:26
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libbenif i wanna send images to the phone. the place should be .images right?17:27
libbenbut there is alot of files in that folder17:27
libbencan i delete all those files?17:27
lcukn900thats ok, after the week ive had im just happy roaming the halls listening to hundreds of conversations17:27
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lcukn900theres so many n900s here!17:28
VDVsxthat's a good sign17:28
lcukn900i missed dnearys council talk too cos i was throwing up in bushes :S17:29
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VDVsxlcukn900, you must participate in the fosdem dance on Sunday :D17:29
crashanddielcukn900: having fun?17:30
sheepbata fosdance, maybe?17:30
lcukn900ok lol17:30
lcukn900yeah crash, now my head is clear17:30
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VDVsxlcukn900, two year ago one of my friends throw up in his gift bag inside the main auditorium, no one noticed :D17:31
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StskeepsVDVsx: cos open source developers can smell of dead cheese which is > smell of puke? :P17:33
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uhsfthe guide for usb networking says to install libicd-network-dummy from Fremantle Nokia-binaries repository or better libicd-network-null from extras-testing but apt-get can't find either package17:34
lcukn900stskeeps i agree17:35
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VDVsxStskeeps, the room is big and he closed the bag and dropped after a while :D17:35
uhsfhow to make maemo specific apps use usb networking instead of trying to connect wifi?17:35
VDVsxlcukn900, Maemo dinner tomorrow ?17:37
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crashanddieI'm out, later17:38
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Damion2uhsf: I just do it manually with ifconfig and route17:39
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GAN900Interesting, the local children's hospital appears to be using Linux for their entertainment software.17:42
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VDVsxLinux FTW :D17:44
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alteregoHrm, anyone know how to sync SMS messages from a symbian nseries phone to Linux? I'd quite like to back them up to my N900 :/17:54
uhsfDamion2: what commands with ifconfig and route?17:56
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pupnikbarebox presentation was very interesting18:00
pupnikany maemo folks see it?18:00
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MohammadAGhow do i kill the keyboard backlight?18:01
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lcukn900w00t im always surprised18:07
w00ttrue enough18:08
lcukn900where are all the maemoers hanging out here18:08
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: that's kinda protective measure. Kinds are all too used to messing around with windoof ;-P18:13
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DocScrutinizers/Kinds /Kids/18:13
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: GAN900: that's kinda protective measure. Kidsare all too used to messing around with windoof ;-P18:13
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lcukn900i left my lanyard at home and cant see any in the swag18:14
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user__hello all18:15
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: permanently? no way I guess. MCE domain18:16
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DocScrutinizeralterego: you might want to give gnokii a try18:17
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DocScrutinizerthough I dunno how to use gnokii over BT18:18
DocScrutinizerprobably you'll send all the SMS via BT obex18:19
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, well how about temporarly?18:19
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DocScrutinizerfor n in `find /sys -name "*led_kbd*"`; do echo 0 >$n; done18:20
DocScrutinizerfor n in `find /sys -name "*led*kb*"`; do echo 0 >$n; done18:23
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* DocScrutinizer curses MCE for hardcoded braindamaged handling of kbd-leds and engine318:27
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DocScrutinizerengine3 especially18:28
DocScrutinizerwasting a whole engine for a stupid one shot ramp of kbd leds that could be done in mere software quite easily, if not even - more clever - by temporaray allocation of engine3 and afterwards restoring engine state to previous18:30
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DocScrutinizeralso there's obviously no sane way to tell mce to keep fingers off the kbd leds, so e.g. MohammadAG could enforce proprietary policy for kbd backlight18:33
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uhsfDamion2: i succesfully installed libicd-network-null from extras-devel, and not extras-testing as mentioned in the wiki, and now maemo specific apps can use usb networking without trying to connect wifi or having to set it manually with ifconfig and route18:35
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, thanks mate :)18:38
MohammadAG<Bash> i have a yellow exclamation mark icon (a friend of mine)18:38
* DocScrutinizer ponders about a nasty hack including tweaking engine3 sysfs node name or permisions18:38
MohammadAGwhat's the yellow ! mark?18:38
MohammadAG<Bash> where the wireless normally is18:39
MohammadAGhis wifi connections keeps getting dropped18:39
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: file a bug against MCE for not providing a sane way to permanently tweak the kbd led policy please18:39
MohammadAGnvm, he thought the icons were placed in a static position, maemo updates18:40
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MohammadAGvibrator's dying again18:42
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: maybe we can convince Nokia to open mce sources18:43
MohammadAGi'll do it in a bit mate18:43
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tremhow I can synchronize my N900 and my thunderbird (or sunbird) with bluetooth ?18:47
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you should have fixed that friggin vib by now18:48
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MohammadAGit's vibrating now18:49
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: hope you at least sent a memo to seller to claim it's a waranty case?18:49
MohammadAGand yes i should've, but i've been very busy18:49
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MohammadAGseller is amazon.com18:50
MohammadAGi'm in israel18:50
MohammadAGit's out of warranty18:50
DocScrutinizerduh, no waranty??18:50
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DocScrutinizerit's been DOA18:51
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MohammadAGit worked on the first day18:51
DocScrutinizernah, you must never say this ;-)18:52
MohammadAGnope no warranty18:52
MohammadAGnokia's warranty isn't international18:52
MohammadAGlol it's the truth18:53
MohammadAGi can send it to the US18:53
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MohammadAGbut paying customs again means it's cheaper to fix it out of warranty18:53
DocScrutinizerthe deffect (debris or wanky motor or contacts) was a zeroday fault though18:53
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MohammadAGwhen held in portrait mode the vibration sound changes18:54
MohammadAGtrue, amazon would replace it, and the government would make me pay customs18:54
MohammadAGluckily the n900 doesn't have a localized version for IL or Jordan18:55
DocScrutinizerthere should be procedures for tax excempt for RMA devices18:55
MohammadAGso a firmware change might do the trick ;p18:55
DocScrutinizerafter all you receive the device from repair for free18:55
DocScrutinizerrepair devices18:56
MohammadAGnot the case four years ago18:56
MohammadAGsomeone sent their palm for free repair and they had to pay tax at the post office18:56
fluxtax of what?18:57
fluxfor importing a device worth xxx?18:57
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DocScrutinizerthat's insane18:58
MohammadAGIL is insane :P18:58
fluxwell, basically if one is to send something for repairs here, it'd be a good idea to file in paper with the customs to say that you do so18:58
fluxso when it comes back, you can use that paper to avoid those fees18:59
MohammadAG34 percent for tax isn't cheap too18:59
DocScrutinizerstill you would think any authorized Nokia shop at .il would do such a simple "repair" (clean out debris)18:59
fluxbut hey, that system sounds nice, if my package is caught by the customs, I need to go to the local customs station, and there is only one in this area. post office won't do.18:59
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, u have no idea what IL is like19:00
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MohammadAGmy ps3's lens died, and it was 3 months out of warranty19:00
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: Ind I'm sure I don't want to19:00
MohammadAGthey said I had to pay $400 to get it fixed19:00
MohammadAGbought the lens off ebay for $40 and fixed it myself19:01
DocScrutinizercome with a AK47 on your back next time ;-)19:01
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MohammadAGi prefer M4s, more accurate firing :P19:02
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DocScrutinizerthough for the mere optics I'd recommend a XM21419:04
* MohammadAG can't wait till he turns 17 and gets his own driver's license19:04
MohammadAGgoing to tel aviv w/o being able to drive yourself there isn't a good thing :p19:04
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DocScrutinizeror even M13419:04
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DocScrutinizerif you're really strong to carry it ;-P19:05
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MohammadAGhaven't played cod for some time, so lemme google that :p19:07
MohammadAGoh that light gun :P19:07
DocScrutinizerwhich is all but a minigun, it's a fsckng monster gun19:08
MohammadAGlol I noticed haha19:09
MohammadAGthough i like these more :p19:09
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MohammadAGi wonder if my internet connection's monitored and they think i'm a terrorist :P19:15
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ifreqanyone remember who made the LCARS theme on n770?19:18
ifreqwould be nice to have such theme on n900 too :P its just uber cool19:18
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andre900ifreq: looking for bugs triggered by lcars in bugs.maemo.or g will give you a hint19:25
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GAN900ifreq, hard to do for Fremantle19:31
GAN900ifreq, no sidebar and such19:31
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GAN900Talk to wiretapped or ian_r, though.19:32
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MohammadAGtrying to increase my ts vibration feedback in mce19:33
ifreqGAN900: yeh i understand that :(19:34
MohammadAGwhat the... start: mce respawning too fast, stopped19:35
Stskeepsairports.. the reason n900 is so good, it keeps you entertained19:37
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: MCE seems not that professionally coded, eh?19:47
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RST38hStskeeps: at least until the great powers prohibit Li batteries on the planes19:47
ShadowJKthe closed source nokia components tend to die/abort/quit on invalid input :)19:47
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, tell me about it19:48
RST38hShadowJK: But haven't they passed extensive testing we are so often told about?19:48
MohammadAGbug report on its way19:48
RST38hShadowJK: (especially when suggesting a fix)19:48
MohammadAGi might unload the keypad module19:48
JaffaAnyone know anything about the "OCS" feeds exposed from (allegedly)19:48
MohammadAGthat didn't do anything o.o19:49
MohammadAGactually it did19:49
MohammadAGthe backlight is always on now x.x19:49
ShadowJKrst38h: sure, testeed extensively to make sure nothing feeds it invalid inputs ;)19:49
DocScrutinizerif any stupid syntax or parameter value error in mce.ini can make mce die, that's for sure worth a bug report19:50
DocScrutinizeranotehr point to disclose the source so we may fix that crap19:51
GAN900DocScrutinizer, I was trying to talk them into moving to gconf a while ago.19:53
DocScrutinizertbh I hate the concept of gconf19:53
GAN900DocScrutinizer, Nokia differentiates on the mce stuff, so. :/19:53
GAN900We got a neutered dsme opened instead. :rolleyes:19:54
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, Dan Winehall should still be the guy to talk to.19:57
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DocScrutinizerthe guy that stole my job? ;-P19:57
DocScrutinizerseems I missed to bookmark the pointer you passed me on that some weeks ago :-S19:58
DocScrutinizerI also forgot to forward an application to konttori_nokia (/me lazy asshole :-S )20:00
andre900gconf is dead anyway, on a related note20:00
DocScrutinizerooh, nice to hear that. On my deskto though it resurrects ocationaly, eating up my CPU :-P20:01
Stskeepsreplaced with?20:02
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w00tStskeeps: hconf, of course20:02
DocScrutinizerreplacement of IBM800020:03
RST38hHey Myrtti how are things?20:03
SpeedEvilShouldn't that be HAL9111 ?20:03
MyrttiRST38h: shite20:03
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MyrttiI'd get drunk to forget some problems, but the logical fallacy is that these problems were caused by people because they were drunk.20:05
adeusalcohol, the cause and solution for all lifes problemts20:05
shdthank alcohol20:06
* adeus is drinking old engine oil20:06
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MyrttiI think it's time to put some Radiohead on AND PUMP UP THE VOLUME20:09
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dirsalany fosdemmers here?20:10
DocScrutinizertimeless: I noticed microb recently showing a new effect of introducing a short (<1s) black screen when switching from fullscreen back to bottom-bar-mode (no better word for it)20:10
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simoneb_how do i start an application (es. leafpad) from within my application?20:14
DocScrutinizersystem() ?20:14
simoneb_tried that... doesn't start20:14
RST38hMyrtti: Reading stuff that is perpendicular to reality also helps20:15
simoneb_DocScrutinizer: uhm, i tried execv() ... should system() make a difference?20:15
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DocScrutinizersimoneb_: system(" myapp") maybe20:16
MyrttiRST38h: are you telling me my fascination for audiobooks of David Eddings is healthy?20:16
DocScrutinizersimoneb_: sorry really pue guessing here20:16
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simoneb_turns out system() works, execv() does not20:20
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simoneb_or maybe I fumbled something with the execv() args20:20
chun1Is there any way to get a dedicated flash player on my n900 - i.e. outside of the browser?20:21
Caesiumsimoneb_: are you remembering to pass the executable name as the first passed argument? so the new process sees it in argv[0]20:22
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Caesiumwhich leads to the strange calling convention of needing to write your new binary name into exec() twice, usually.20:22
simoneb_Caesium: good point20:22
simoneb_anyway it seems that launching an application from within a button in a desktop widget locks the entire desktop... not funny :/20:23
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, i think my vib motor is working again20:25
MohammadAGfor real this time20:25
DocScrutinizergrinded the debris to dust? :-P20:25
* ShadowJK is starting to suspects the battery meter in n900 is some sort of voltage based instead of colomb counter....20:25
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you bet it is20:26
MohammadAGa dbus signal with an incoming call pattern for 40 minutes seems to have done the trick20:26
ShadowJKdocsxrutinizer: N8x0 had (buggy) colomb counter :(20:26
DocScrutinizerfrom the patterns I seen on lshal capacity reports I thought it has to be voltage based20:27
DocScrutinizern900 that is20:27
RST38hMyrtti: Dunno, no idea who the guy is =)20:27
* RST38h googles20:27
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer: lshal output can be a bit hard to interpret because it's only lazily updated :/20:28
DocScrutinizerspeedevil also seen those large jumps of capacity that are not expected to be seen on CC based meter20:28
RST38hMyrtti: Naah, I do not think the guy has sufficiently advanced on the road to insanity =)20:29
ShadowJKbut the claimed charge state increasing after charger disconnected would indicate some ghey voltage profiling20:29
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I vaguely recall that tehre is no sort of thing20:29
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: A quick scrityngy of the bme kernel module revealed lots of dodgy code.20:29
ShadowJKI didn't realize there was a bme kernel module20:30
SpeedEvilHowever - I'm not 1000% sure it's actually used - I haven't traced from hal through to that side20:30
SpeedEvilwell - maybe not module20:30
StskeepsShadowJK: there isnt20:30
Stskeepsretu and tahvo maybe20:31
ShadowJKI only straced bme - hald-addon-bme communication and concluded the protocol has changed from maemo420:31
hcarreganeed some help20:31
hcarregamy n900 today20:31
hcarregaacts a little bit strange20:31
ShadowJKYeah on maemo4 bme seems to do i2c on retutahvo from userspace :P20:31
hcarregai get sim failure20:31
ShadowJKor some other protocol slow enough to do bruteforce in userspace20:32
DocScrutinizerretutahvo??? o.O20:32
hcarregai disconnect ,remove the baterry the sim put all again and no network20:32
SpeedEviltwl4030_bci_batteryt.c maybe20:32
hcarregai use another sim and gets network20:32
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Stskeepson n900 its different20:32
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, some nokia chips named after (I think) finnish names of flintstones characters...20:32
ShadowJKoh twl4030 yeah...20:33
SpeedEvilBAM BAM!20:33
ShadowJKn8x0 reused lots of hardware from other nokia phones :-)20:34
ShadowJKthere's more unused hw features than used :D20:34
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DocScrutinizerDocScrutinizer's paradise20:34
ShadowJKthere's sim interface, not connected to anything, and no radio for it :)20:34
* SpeedEvil ponders bluetooth SIM profile20:35
ShadowJKI think there's like all the hw from a nokia dumbphone in there, mostly unused :P20:35
ShadowJKjust used for power management20:36
ShadowJKI think N900 is using TI chips for that now...20:36
RST38hbaseband should be from the s40 phone20:36
* DocScrutinizer makes notice to scrutinize the N810 schematics another time20:37
RST38hoh wait you mean n8x0... there is no reason it should have any phone-specific hw20:37
RST38hOMAP2 is an application processor, phone stuff is separate20:37
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DocScrutinizerbut now for something completely different:  dinnnnnneeeer20:41
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ShadowJKsmartq is much better as porn, you can google the chips and datasheets and reference manuals appear20:46
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ShadowJKthose chinese are too cheap to use custom components :)20:46
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, when you get back, I've been thinking about sth for the xchat notifications, why can't we define a new pattern for xchat in mce.ini?20:48
DocScrutinizer51of course we can20:48
DocScrutinizer51both for vib and led20:49
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DocScrutinizer51you could even exploit mce madness and use engine3 for led pattern (by manually programming it) which would reset the pattern as soon as you hit any key on kbd20:51
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DocScrutinizer51quite a hack though20:52
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DocScrutinizer51and mce also occasionally resets patterns out of no aparent reason20:52
DocScrutinizer51probably related to battery management20:53
DocScrutinizer51dunno if that applies to engine3 as well20:53
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, well I added a pattern, and a dbus to test it didn't work20:54
MohammadAGsec lemme retry it20:55
DocScrutinizer51you took care to add the pattern name to the list of patterns a few lines up in mce.ini?20:55
MohammadAGdidn't notice that part lol20:56
MohammadAGwhy are there non RX51 patterns?20:56
MohammadAGi'm assuming they're safe to delete20:56
DocScrutinizer51no idea. heritage20:56
MohammadAGso they're safe to delete20:59
DocScrutinizer51I'd not hesitate a second to delete them21:00
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chun1Is there any way to get a dedicated flash player on my n900 - i.e. outside of the browser?21:01
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timelesschun1: technically, kinda21:12
timelessthe get started wizard is a flash app with minimal hosting21:12
timelessthere's no proper standalone flash player, but you can do what they did which is be your own eal client and provide a tiny html file which just loads your .swf file21:13
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SpeedEvilmplayer works for some simple flash files21:18
* RST38h wonders why anyone would want to watch flash video so hard21:18
SpeedEvilSo it goes soft?21:19
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: me too21:19
DocScrutinizer51even outside of browser21:20
SpeedEvilIt would be easy way to make 'standalone' games21:20
RST38hquality sucks, the length is limited, and it stalls all the time21:20
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DocScrutinizer51and aiui you could embed the flash shit in a local html page to display in a standard browser21:21
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DocScrutinizer51so why a standalone flash player?21:22
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SpeedEvilHopefully faster?21:23
DocScrutinizer51duh, why should it?21:23
SpeedEvilI think people hope it might be21:23
DocScrutinizer51it's flash that sucks. Not the browser21:23
SpeedEvilWithout understandign that21:23
MohammadAGa standalone player with GPU support/acceleration would be faster21:24
MohammadAGflash always puts the load on the CPU21:24
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MohammadAG(but i'm assuming you already knew that SpeedEvil) :)21:24
SpeedEvilyes. My working assumption these days is to blame adobe for everything.21:25
SpeedEvilIncluding possibly global warming and WWII21:25
infobotSpeedEvil meant: Including possibly global warming and WWIII21:25
DocScrutinizer51I'd guess it's completely irrelevant for flashplayer(-plugin) on which canvas it's running - browser or any other X window21:26
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MohammadAGso should i send adobe a message concerning my n900 motor?21:26
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derfPersonally, I thought this was hilarious:
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, yeah, it always puts load on the cpu, though there is a device that has a standalone gpu accelerated flash player21:27
SpeedEvilI'm unsure but I suppose most workloads for flash would benefit from browser not being running21:27
derf(in re: things being Adobe's fault)21:27
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: which aiui N900 actually does21:28
derf"Perhaps a quarter of our developer time last year was spent trying to hack around bugs in the Adobe Flash player product, for example."21:28
MohammadAGdidn't know that, as my loads rocket up when playing youube21:28
DocScrutinizer51not sure about that21:28
DocScrutinizer51probably timeless could tell21:29
MohammadAGmight be pulseaudio though21:29
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, one more thing, unloading the keypad module worked :)21:30
MohammadAGbacklight is off now21:31
ShadowJKpulseaudio has its own set of bugs to work around :-)21:31
MohammadAGyou said the only way was to do the echo command in /sys21:31
SpeedEvil'zootube' makes for _much_ better, smoother viweing, and faster framerate than flash21:31
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ShadowJKzoutube uses mafw :)21:32
DocScrutinizer51you would think keypad module has more than just BL mgmt, some of which you don't want to break21:32
SpeedEvilerr - zou - yes21:32
SpeedEvildo not google zootube21:32
ShadowJKand mafw doesn't need to pull back the video into the system, convert it to rgb, alphablend the interface ontop, and blit the rgb to screen (lots of bw), or convert back to yuv...21:33
SpeedEvilTo be fair - that is a performance killer too21:33
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ShadowJKflash player is awlays at a disadvantage because of that :/21:34
MohammadAG<SpeedEvil> do not google zootube // why does the human mind interpret such things as the opposite :/21:35
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* ShadowJK likes mytube better21:36
ShadowJKbut I haven't tried it on n90021:36
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DocScrutinizer51anybody tried what's happening when you rename the cam ELF (as called by *.desktop) and replace it by another app?21:40
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SpeedEvil /me has been playing with zoutube - lol21:42
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RST38hSpeed: You think that was funny? Try this one:
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MohammadAGis there a theme maker for maemo?22:12
MohammadAG<Bash> MohammadAG,  are there any templates to make themes etc?22:12
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Bash1hi guys. just got the n900 MohammadAG has been helping me set it u :D22:19
Bash1pretty cool phone22:20
MohammadAGiphone convert right there :)22:20
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V13hello. Is there a way to distinguish system packages from packages that are installed later ?22:22
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V13By "system packages" I mean packages that should be the rootfs.22:22
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chun1Anyone know how I can play flash games that require me to drag? seem to just scroll the browser when I try22:27
V13you can use the cursor22:27
V13do you know how to enable the cursor ?22:28
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chun1V13: no, how do I?22:28
DocScrutinizer51sweep left to right22:29
V13drag your finger (or stylus or nail) from outside the left side of the screen to the center22:29
MohammadAGdrag from bottom left side on the browser22:29
DocScrutinizer51from outside screen22:29
V13it will display a box with a cursor22:29
V13then click it22:29
V13after that you control a cursor22:29
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chun1ah, awesome! cheers22:29
V13the same way you can drag google maps22:29
MohammadAGchun1, do it from the other (right) side to display your history22:30
V13so, any ideas on how i can determine system packages ?22:30
V13it would be nice if someone had the "dpkg -l" of a "virgin" system with PR1.122:31
DocScrutinizer51hit it22:31
* V13 hits22:31
* V13 hits again22:31
ShadowJKapt-cache rdepends maemo-pr22:32
V13I want a list of packages that are supposed to be installed in the rootfs22:32
ShadowJKbut it doesn't show all system packages :/22:32
V13I don't have maemo-pr22:32
V13W: Unable to locate package maemo-pr22:33
ShadowJKhm, I have forgotten the exact name then :P22:33
MohammadAGii  mp-fremantle-0 2.2009.51-1.00 ?22:34
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V13I've mp-fremantle-generic-pr22:35
V13and it's depends22:35
V13but it works :))22:35
V13sweet :)22:36
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MohammadAG~ $ sudo dpkg -l mp-fremantle*22:36
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V13It seems that it lists everything!22:36
V13let's see :)22:36
DocScrutinizer51maybe upgrade to Pr1.1 recommended?22:37
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railyhi all22:38
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uhsfhi raily22:39
railyi would like to add sth to brainstorm regarding skype. should i open a new topic or find one where my request fits in?22:40
Bash1anyone tried to sync their contacts with google contacts on the n900?22:40
railybtw, totally cool i am writing from my N900 right now :) love it22:40
railyyyeah bash1 i did22:41
raily oh no sorry i synced calendar only22:41
Bash1oh ok22:41
railygoogle never gets my contacts22:41
Bash1i cant connect to the server says my username, password or domain are incorrect22:42
railywell domain is, right?22:42
Bash1i tried that22:43
Bash1port: 43322:43
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railymmh i think you should leave domain blank22:44
Bash1ive tried that also lol22:44
railyill look into my mfe config, brb22:44
V13ok... googlelatitude and wikihow depend on libqt4-webkit which installs 52MB in /22:44
V13or i counted something wrong22:45
railydomain is blank and secure connection is on22:46
railylogin is your googlemail22:46
railyand dont sync mails as it wont work22:46
ShadowJKI hope it goes to /opt22:46
V13nope.. it's 17MB22:48
Bash1man i really needed this to work....all my contacts are on google contacts none on sim :(22:48
Bash1dont wanna type in 300 contacts lol22:48
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V13openssh-client installs 1MB in /, wget installs 1.3MB in /, libpoppler2: 1.48MB, libqt4-webkit: 17.4MB22:49
ShadowJKwhich repo is wget from?22:50
V13apt-cache showpkg gives: 1.10.2-2osso3 (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-testing_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status)22:50
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V13so it's from extras or extras-testing22:50
ShadowJKI hope it isn't extras if it uses so much on /22:51
V13it's because of /usr/share/locales/22:51
satmdany "slim and neat" theme recommendations?22:51
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ShadowJKThe locale files aren't optified?22:51
woglindenetbook has small keys22:52
ShadowJKMaybe they're individually too small to trigger the auto-optification :(22:52
* ShadowJK sighs22:52
V13-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        39689 Aug 23 15:51 /usr/share/locale/vi/LC_MESSAGES/wget.mo22:52
V13not *that* small22:52
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V13there are 35 of them22:52
jebbaif they are part of the base install, they don't get optified22:52
V13and /usr/bin/wget is 213Kb22:53
ioeeehola, existe canal de soporte en español?22:53
jebbasi! aca. ;)22:53
ShadowJKwget isn't part of base install though?22:53
ioeeea si?22:53
woglindehi jebba22:53
ioeeeque bien22:53
jebbahey woglinde  :)22:54
DocScrutinizer51Shadikka: nope22:54
V13Inst wget [1.10.2-2osso3] (1.10.2-2osso3 Extras:2.0/fremantle, Extras-testing:2.0/fremantle)22:54
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V13it's from extras22:54
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: ^22:54
ioeeequeria saber si hay mas reposirorios aparte de los del topic22:54
DocScrutinizer51V13: extras-testing even22:55
timelesssi.pero nosotros hablamos Ingles22:55
V13I believe it's extras22:55
DocScrutinizer51ioeee: this is an Engllish channel22:55
V13it shows extras-testing because it has the same version. No?22:55
jebbaioeee: si hay unos:    que queres?22:56
jebbaioeee: no importa que dice. Podemos hablar como queremos....22:56
ioeeejebba gracias, busco aplicaciones de los  repos de debian22:57
jebbaah ioeee yo hico todo de debian etch, pero no es "optificado"  (no usa /opt por ahora)22:57
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ioeeejebba ok pero añadiste los repos manualmente al source.lst o descargas los .deb?22:58
DocScrutinizer51woglinde: hi, und wie isses auf ther fosdem?22:59
jebbapuedes instalar con eso:
V13can't find wget in garage or bugtracker22:59
jebbao manualmente ...22:59
ShadowJKI can't remember URL of the packages interface23:00
ShadowJKand mainpage seems to be unresponsive, as it always is on weekends.. sigh :-)23:00
V13Here is the deb:
DocScrutinizer51V13: apt-get install wget23:01
V13I've it installed already23:01
V13I want to fill a bugreport23:01
ioeeejebba ok gracias, cierro para mirar tu wiki con calma, gracias de nuevo23:01
V13can't find it anywhere23:01
V13it's like a ghost :)23:02
jebbade nada ioeee23:02
ioeeebye o/23:02
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DocScrutinizer51V13: it,s not a special maemo app23:02
V13Maintainer: maemo integration <>23:02
V13doc: i agree23:02
V13ok.. who's maemo integration ?23:02
ShadowJKI thought things in extras had to have a bugtracker or similar..23:03
DocScrutinizer51probably a bunch of guys23:03
V13ShadowJK: it doesn't show anywhere !23:03
jebbaa bunch of guys or a dead address ,)23:04
V13ok.. question: is it ok to give googlelatitude a fingers-down because it depends on libqt4-webkit ?23:04
V13it installs 17MB in /23:04
ShadowJKSo, entering extras-testing in the search field, and redoing the search with wiki set as search area23:05
ShadowJKstill yields 0 results23:05
V13see? :)23:05
jebbaV13: libqt4-webkit is a part of "core" or whatever it's called :(23:05
V13are you sure ?23:05
jebbaShadowJK: just search the site with google....23:05
V13only googlelatitude and wikihow depend on this23:05
timelessmost things are fake23:06
jebbaV13: it's not in extras*23:06
Stskeepsback in warsaw23:06
timelessv13: what's wrong w/ wget?23:06
uhsfyesterday i configured a visible cursor for my n900 but today it's gone. how to get a permanent visible cursor?23:07
jebbanice. congrats on getting thesis defended etc (and surviving the night)23:07
V13it installs 1.3MB in /23:07
V13jebba: indeed... you're right.. sorry for the trouble23:07
Stskeepsjebba, ta23:08
V13shadowjk: well done. still not bugtracker... right ?23:08
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ShadowJKV13: nope :/23:09
ShadowJKand the wget in extras-testing has 0 karma23:09
ShadowJKhow is it in extras23:09
V13last one is 27/1/201023:10
V13wrong.. 26/12/200923:10
timelessjust file it in bugs.maemo.org23:10
ShadowJKMaybe post to maemo-developers mailing list asking wtf?23:10
ShadowJKor bugs :)23:10
V13timless: against which package ?23:10
V13I'll send to maemo-dev23:11
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timelessdistmaster or the sdk23:11
woglindegood nite23:11
timelessjust make jeremiah deal w/ it23:11
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timelessprobably sdk if i were to place a guess23:11
* V13 lost23:12
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timelessgiven that the extension is osso instead of maemo23:12
V13there is a package named "sdk" and another one named "distmasteR" ?23:12
dovDoes someone know why 'ssh -X' doesn't work to the N900? DISPLAY is always set to :0. I wanted to test remote streaming of the video through gstreamer over X11.23:12
uhsfno one here uses a cursor in maemo?23:12
V13uhsg: you mean the browser?23:12
uhsfit's very annoying to try to click without seeing a cursor23:12
uhsfV13: i mean everywhere on maemo interface23:13
* satmd has a nice idea for post-n900: a switch placed where the pen is stored, to lock/unlock (possibly) when removed/inserted23:14
timelessufsf: koffice does23:14
timelessno one in their right mind doe23:14
timelessuhsf: people can't tpically see a cursor tht's underneath their thumb23:14
timelessand the presence of a cursor on the screen is incredibly annoying23:14
timelessif you want to try it, use koffice viewer23:14
timelessv13: sdk is a product or component23:14
timelessdunno about dist, i think
timelessand if you can't figure out how to file this bug, you're wasting people's time23:14
* timeless is sick (litterally)23:14
satmdand either you or me just had a lot of lag23:15
DocScrutinizer51satmd: the switch idea is old23:15
* timeless 23:15
ShadowJKHm, is there a wget in SDK TOOLS repository too?23:15
satmdDocScrutinizer: still nice :p23:15
* timeless is using a lame IAP23:15
timelessshadowjk: i'd bet there is23:16
timelesskinda hard to do work in an sdk w/o one :)23:16
V13timeless: chill-out.'s bugtracker is somehow messed. You have to find out which category a package is in. And this is #maemo. Not even #maemo-devel.23:16
timelessbesides, that's the only valid reason to find in the maintainer field23:16
timelessv13: get me some saltines for my unsettled stomach23:16
V13oh.. stomach problem.. bad bad..23:17
uhsftimeless: at home it's much more convenient to use a real pointing device than the touchscreen. the lack of cursor is a bug, not a feature23:17 address is in the extras package though.. the question is whether some random dude just uploaded package from sdk tools to extras :)23:17
* timeless went to the hospital around 6am today23:17
timelessshadowjk: money is on it, yes23:17
timelesswouldn't you?23:17
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timeless> And though the Postal Service creed may be "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds," the agency suspended service across the Washington region on Saturday, surrendering to one of the largest snowfalls in the region's history.23:19
ShadowJKNo I'd worry about leaving or not leaving the email fields as they are. On one hand removing credit, on the other hand adding noise emails23:19
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V13libpoppler2 is not a core component. Right ?23:21
* ShadowJK wonders how to find out who put wget in extas-devel, and how it went through -testing and into extras23:22
jebbaV13: maemo-list-user-packages23:22
timelessv13: roughly speaking, just file the bug /somewhere/, someone will move the bug somewhere better23:22
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V13timeless.. yes.. thanks! I did that against sdk23:22
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dovI figured it out. There is no xauth for the N900. Nor is there a an xauth available in any of the standard repositories. :-(23:22
V13jebba: i found it in testing's queue23:23
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* ShadowJK wonders if bugmenot has any * passwords23:24
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QuibusHi all23:25
V13Perhaps a package in testing should get negative karma from the packages that it depends on.23:25
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QuibusIs there a common way to disable window composition for SDL apps?23:25
Quibus(To gain performance)23:25
fluxquibus, there is, but I don't know it. you will likely find it from messages dealing with qt fullscreen apps and disabling composition.23:26
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Quibusflux: you reckon SDL isn't different than Qt?23:27
Quibus(regarding this)23:27
timelessthere's a keystroke for it..23:27
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fluxquibus, I'm guessing the solution talks directly with hildon or something23:27
V13I wrote a small python-prog that how much each non-system package consumes in rootfs. Are you interested in that?23:27
V13s/that how/that show how/23:28
infobotV13 meant: I wrote a small python-prog that show how much each non-system package consumes in rootfs. Are you interested in that?23:28
V13lol :)23:28
V13yes :)23:28
Quibusthat's a cool bot feature :-)23:28
* V13 must learn to type23:28
* V13 msut lrn ot ytpe23:29
timelessi think i'd rather one that just listed high scorers23:29
N900evilimp.lement autolcolrrectedd keybolard23:29
timelessanyone under 100k isn't interesting23:29
N900evilfix everyholnes typ.nbg23:29
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zashdo someone know of a media server system thingy like subsonic, but another23:30
ShadowJKWell, 100k is interesting for those people who install everything :-)23:31
* dov managed to install xauth and stream video through ssh!23:31
ShadowJKThen we have stuff that consists essentially of two dozen 90k packages or something :-)23:32
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Bash1does anyone have the 3g settings for O2?23:33
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* N900evil sighs at angrybirds 21. last without ***23:33
V13another Q: is it ok to make a package of a wallpaper? Are wallpapers distributed in another way?23:35
ShadowJKhere's atleast one wallpaper as a package...23:36
* V13 missed that23:36
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DocScrutinizer51Bash1: mompl23:42
ifreqevening guys and gurls23:42
rdorschDoes anybody know how I reset the network traffic counter for packet data (GPRS/UMTS)?23:42
* Trizt wonders why there aren't a group for themes in the installer, but themes are placed a little bit here and there sometimes as system, other times utils or desktop...23:42
ShadowJKthere's a reset button next to the counte thing...23:43
DocScrutinizer51Bash1: for loop prepaid (INTERNET S/M/L) it's APN: pinternet.interkom.de23:43
DocScrutinizer51Bash1: no user/pw23:43
Bash1ive have the settings now DocScrutinizer51 :D23:44
rdorschShadowJK: Is personal-gprs-mon the counter thing?23:44
Bash1sent a text msg to them and got them ty23:44
rdorschI do not see a reset button there...23:44
ShadowJKno I mean setup -> phone -> data counter23:44
ShadowJKI dont have personal-gprs-mon23:44
rdorschMany thanks, I found it :-)23:45
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MohammadAGwhat's the enter code for unlocking sim card for?23:48
MohammadAGit's in the title bar of settings23:48
DocScrutinizer51anybody a short few buzzwords how ntp et idem is handled on maemo5?23:50
DocScrutinizer51ntpdate/netdate, date over GSM/GPS - any clue?23:51
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ShadowJKdate over gsm is supported atleast23:52
ShadowJKthen there's minigpsd in the repos that supports time over gps, if it actually works on maemo523:53
ShadowJKand ntpdate is probably in repos too23:53
ShadowJKbut the default maemo5 is date over gsm I believe23:53
DocScrutinizer51hmm, makes sense to what I observe23:53
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ShadowJKopenntpd and such use more power :-)23:54
ShadowJKand gps23:54
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DocScrutinizer51apt-get i ntpdate  ->not found :-/23:56
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ShadowJKopenntpd or s omething in -devel?23:58

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