IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-02-05

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* Arkenoi wonders if bfs may provide any advantage on n900?00:01
timelessare people at the hotel and coordinating? I'm at cdg00:01
iPeter-how to mount nokia n900 on ubuntu on mass storage mode00:01
timelessoops, wrong channel :-)00:01
Stskeepstimeless: what part of the world are you in his time?00:01
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mtdCaesium: 8th "update" of a release?  I smell marketing.00:09
mtdt-tan: ok.  I guess I should re-enable extras-devel.00:09
mtdt-tan: hmm hadn't thought of enabling extras-devel on scratchbox for some reason.00:10
Caesiummtd: yes, not really familiar with Debian's update and versioning system, I assume a security patch doesn't bump the update or it'd be higher than 8 after 2 years one would assume00:10
mtdCaesium: makes sense.00:10
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t-tanmtd: extras-devel is essential if you want to develop00:11
mtdt-tan: yeah I dunno why I didn't think of enabling it in the scratchbox...00:12
hrw-gone-fosdemmtd: my bus to berlin airport is leaving in 2:3000:12
mtdhrw-gone-fosdem: ah00:12
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marmoutezaheerm: What kind a QAd does fremantle have ?00:13
* wazd ponders if he can release Manila weather icons for Maemo...00:13
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* mtd had alread put extras-devel in his scratchbox apt sources, so has gone from feeling stupid to just forgetful.00:17
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iPeter-What format is N900 filesystem00:21
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ShadowJKubifs, ext3, vfat (fat32)00:22
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ShadowJKubifs on / nand, the 32g emmc is divided into a 2gig ext2 partition, 768M swap and the rest vfat00:25
mtdjebba: I think I might pin base-files to maemo repos rather than freemoe-etch :)00:26
iPeter-How does that subtitle plugin for Media Player work, does anyone know?00:26
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jebbamtd: oh for certain. Give me the pin list. ;)   Don't dist-upgrade against etch ;)00:31
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villagermtd: after a debian release has accumulated enough security patches, debian masters a new set of cd images. that's what the 8 etch updates are all about00:33
mtdvillager: ah, thanks for the explanation.00:35
mtdjebba: heh.00:35
villageran update could also include patches for other critical but non-security bugs, though that's rare00:35
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jebba"The page you are trying to access is restricted to members of the Symbian Foundation."   oh well, not worth it.00:36
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mtdjebba: now that that stuff's open source, every mobile phone operator's network will be hacked00:38
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mtdjebba: and then the mobile phone operators will go out of business.00:38
embeddedhi all00:38
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mtdjebba: I don't know whether to wish my idiotic statements true :)00:38
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jebba" then the mobile phone operators will go out of business."    That's the plan.00:41
* mtd thinks it's great, of course. Perhaps the license nazis would've preferred GPL to EPL. <shrug>00:42
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* mtd is disappointed at the lack of swear words in the code (according to google)00:43
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mtdactually, google hasn't indexed much (robots.txt?):
jophishHmm, my n900 isn't keeping it's theme over reboots. anybody else experienced this?00:49
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embeddednever experienced any reboot :)00:50
jebbaRemosi: any luck building by any chance?  :)00:50
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:51
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jophishembedded, wow, what's your uptime?00:54
embeddedmmhh...let me think00:54
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lcukembedded, no need to think, just ask in the console ;)00:55
Damion2has anyone used ovi maps on s60?  I can't get gps lock and it only wants to use gprs for agps, but my sim is in my n90000:55
embeddedjophish: at least a couple of months00:55
jophishvery impressive00:55
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jophishI think my server has a few years on that though00:55
lcukmy 2 active n900s have 4 days each00:56
embeddedi'm replying with N900,this is the reason of the late reply00:56
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lcukmy nana had an uptime of over 80 years.00:57
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lcukshe got rebooted today :)00:57
yuizydoesn't fw update require rebooting?00:57
redeemanlcuk: i had a server with 1400 days uptime00:57
redeemannot quite as long00:57
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redeemanbut still00:57
lcukimpressive for a computer that00:57
redeemanhad to replace it, no more disk space00:57
Damion2we had a sun doing http proxy pac serving which had an uptime of 12 years when I left00:58
redeemanplus, it had already reached 1337 days00:58
Damion2it's still going ttbomk00:58
embeddedyuizy: not necessarily00:58
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crashanddiethe current record for longest uptime is 11 years, 303 days, 20 hours and 57 minutes on a computer running OpenVMS.00:59
* Arkenoi had seen 10+ years uptime once00:59
Arkenoiyep, and it was openVMS too ;-)01:00
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ptlI've seen an uptime of 40 years in a server with AIX 5.2... but of course it was a bug.01:02
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ptl09:59PM   up 14643 days,   2:58,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.0101:04
Damion2crashanddie: netcraft?01:05
crashanddieptl: 40 years, right ;)01:06
crashanddieDamion2: wiki01:06
Damion2ours wasn't online01:06
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embeddedgood night all01:06
Damion2let me find the actual last dated uptime then01:06
crashanddiewho cares, there's no such thing as an accurate uptime copy/paste01:06
ptlcrashanddie: it was a bug, it probably calculated as initial date the epoch time01:06
crashanddiethe bug was in you trying to fake your uptime ;)01:07
jebbanew freemoe kernel available (untested)01:07
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ptlI did not fake it01:08
ptlI did not issue the uptime command now, I took from my log01:08
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Damion2crashanddie: well if the record on wikipedia is 11yrs and is more I'll update it.01:09
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Caesiumthat's funny, the uptime record being pasted on wiki01:14
Caesiumas soon as the page is saved it's wrong, what's the point ;)01:14
Damion2Caesium: ahha!  do you have an uptime output stored from it?  it contains the date so as long as it's not sinced died it's that much longer01:15
Caesiumno, but bb or slimey will probably happily get some current output for you :p01:15
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* Caesium is asking :)01:16
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jebbagar, new kernel doesn't work01:17
wazdVDVsx: around?01:17
VDVsxwazd, yup01:17
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Damion22565 days in 200601:17
ptldo you guys know a good shopping list application that preferrably makes a good monthly expenses report?01:18
wazdVDVsx: I've made a 1.09 build01:18
Damion2Caesium: it's on google01:18
Caesium23:17 <Slimey>  11:17pm  up 3868 day(s), 10:49,  1 user,  load average: 0.02, 0.01, 0.0201:18
ptland can compare supermarkets and such01:18
VDVsxwazd, changelog ? :D01:18
wazdVDVsx: can you please make some shots with it? :)01:18
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wazdVDVsx: well, menu arrow works, agenda view fixed I hope01:18
VDVsxwazd, my device is charging atm, but I can make some later01:19
wazdVDVsx: ah, ok01:19
Damion2so over 10.5 yrs I stand corrected01:19
VDVsxwazd, less than a hour, I guess01:19
wazdVDVsx: n900 can't charge and make screenshots same time? :D Where's all that multitasking magic I heard about? :D01:19
VDVsxwazd, no,lol01:19
Damion2Caesium: wait.  how can slikmey still ssh in?01:19
Caesiumhe got it off bb I think01:20
Damion2crashanddie: okay it's a year behind01:20
ptldon't you guys shop with N900?01:20
ptlOk, let's change the question. Do you have a bar reader application like in Android?01:20
VDVsxwazd, It can, but I used to turn off devices when charging, bad habit :D01:20
wazdVDVsx: if you'll fake some agenda view - that would be cool01:20
Damion2Caesium: you have oldernokias with ovi navigation?01:20
ptlNo again?01:21
VDVsxptl, there's one, but unfinished01:21
Caesiumdon't think so, only have E51 and E9001:21
CaesiumE90 is broken and E51 is for ah-fuck-I-need-a-phone emergencies01:21
ptlThe good point is that there are nice niches to fill then.01:21
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ptlVDVsx: what's the name? Is it available via apt-get?01:21
VDVsxptl, err, mbarcode01:21
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VDVsxits in Extras-devel at least01:22
* Caesium had the misfortune of having to use Ovi Maps on N900 in the wild yesterday and today01:22
wazdVDVsx: also screenshots of menu arrow, e-mail notifications and all that calendar stuff would be great :)01:22
ptlas soon as I finish downloading qtmobiledemo-shoplist I'll apt-cache search it01:22
GeneralAntillesptl, Shopper, but it's not out yet.01:22
Caesiumhow appallingly awful. is it not at all possible to delete/modify the default "points of interest" ?01:22
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ptlGeneralAntilles: is it in beta? is it open source?01:22
GeneralAntillesptl, lbt is just being a slow asshole.01:23
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VDVsxwazd, can't help with mail, I don't use modest, so don't have any account there :D01:23
VDVsxand I don't want to use it :D01:23
ptlthe point being, I was a developer in my last job a few years ago, and I want to get in touch with development again by writing some N900 apps.01:23
Damion2Caesium: tried google maps in the browser with the gps plugin?01:24
ptlso if I don't find some interesting applications that do something, I'll write my own01:24
VDVsxptl, yes shopper is OSS01:24
VDVsxsame for mbarcode01:24
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CaesiumDamion2: yes, but again can't save waypoints so not much better01:24
Caesiumand can't zoom?01:24
Caesiumso it's a bit limited01:24
VDVsxptl, but we need a advanced shooper app :D01:24
Damion2you sure?  it's the same as the desktop01:24
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Damion2ahh you're using the iphone version01:24
lcuktracy needs specialist app for shoe shopping01:25
Caesiumiirc, might have another play sometimes01:25
Caesiumthink I was trying the /m one?01:25
wazdVDVsx: meh :)01:25
lcukit needs to make a whining noise everytime the credit card is pulled out01:25
pwnguinstupid idea of the day01:26
pwnguincellphones have vibration motors and some have accellerometers01:26
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pwnguindata communication line!01:27
iPeter-What program you guys suggest for avi conveter to get good vids to n900 -> to tv01:27
ptldata communication line with vibration motors and accelerometers? how?01:28
lcukpwnguin, in onedotzero i used to send shake and rumble streams over the wifi, its entirely practical01:28
lcukand is being considered for many things01:28
pwnguinlcuk: no no, use the rumble as a communication channel01:29
Damion2ipeter: I was wondering the same.  I have a dvcam which can record from composite also a bttv vid.capure device in a pc01:29
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* ShadowJK suggests avoiding packed bframes01:29
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lcukpwnguin, yes i know exactly what you mean01:30
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iPeter-Hmph, i would need a converter now :I01:30
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lcukiPeter-, i have unforgivably stopped transcoding nowadays01:31
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lcuki had a thought about doing it in the past, but i never have the time when i need to copy things on01:31
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lcuki wanted to find best quality/battery life ratio01:31
lcukso if you do find out, please up it somewhere lol01:32
pwnguinits completely impractical01:32
lcukpwnguin, what is?01:33
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lcuksending a data stream over the wire?01:33
pwnguinusing vibrators and sensors to communicate data01:33
newbie005is there such an application that will record and playback with a delay that I can specify ?01:33
lcuknewbie005, dictaphone style?01:33
* lcuk would also like one of those too01:33
newbie005well a cam-corder01:33
lcukuse camera button to record01:33
ShadowJKpwnguin: 10 bits per sec or so max I'd think :)01:34
lcuknewbie005, yeah, its the generic camera app..01:34
newbie005like if I wanted to see the back of my head, I could turn it on then wait then look01:34
lcukpwnguin, i sent over an accelerometer stream perfectly well01:34
lcuksee onedotzero videos for more01:34
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lcukits not rocket science01:34
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lcukhell, wiimotes do it over bt01:34
Caesiumlcuk: you've missed his point twice now ;)01:34
Caesiumlcuk: he is saying have two phones touching each other, using the vibrator in one, and the acceleremoter in the other, and have one feel what the other is doing01:35
Caesiumthus communicating.01:35
ShadowJKthe other direction01:35
newbie005a speaker/mic communication would be useful01:35
lcukoh, thats different again, but bumping does it01:35
ShadowJKhow about bluetooth01:35
lcukit passes on data01:35
lcukand this does it:
newbie005I could transfere a file without a wire01:35
VDVsxwazd, ok, gonna update :D01:35
lcukdoesnt have to be from another phone tho01:36
lcukits better just having it remote tho and send over shakes from one to the other01:36
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newbie005another thing I'd like is a website, showing new apps coming out of testing01:37
iPeter-Any free program to convert avi's resolutions01:37
* VDVsx hits El Cock with a rock :D01:38
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lcukVDVsx :D01:38
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iPeter-With gui and for windows.01:38
newbie005there is one called smart converter01:39
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newbie005I think,, smart something01:39
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newbie005but ffmpeg is better01:39
jacekowskii've bought n900 today01:39
crashanddieyou're not supposed to say that01:40
crashanddieyou're not welcoming us to your world :P01:40
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jacekowskii have questions01:40
Damion2why not? it's polite01:40
iPeter-newbie005: but ffmpeg doesnt have graphical user interface.01:40
newbie005no, not at all, I found smart on wikipedia01:40
jacekowskiis there a ssh client for it?01:41
newbie005it was drag drop and supported ipod and various other stuff01:41
mtnbkrjacekowski: yep and server01:41
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crashanddiejacekowski: just install openssh-client01:41
Damion2iPeter-: which means it's easier to automate, control remoltely and is more efficient01:41
jacekowskicrashanddie: how?01:41
crashanddiejacekowski: application manager?01:41
ShadowJKenable catalogue :)01:41
mtnbkrcrashanddie: isn't it in testing or one of the non-stadard repos?01:41
crashanddiemtnbkr: no01:42
Damion2it's just in extras01:42
newbie005jacekowski: get gainroot then you can use apt-get01:42
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crashanddiemtnbkr: it's in extras01:42
RichiH_fosdemam i right in assuming that a .deb created for fremantle will not work on a stock n810?01:42
VDVsxpr 1.1 has extras enabled by defaulr01:42
xorAxAxs/b end01:42
Damion2which from 1.1 is default enabled01:42
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RichiH_fosdemalso, should i switch to Mer or is Maemo 4 still the preferred choice for the n810?01:42
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crashanddieRichiH_fosdem: it will work, the deb itself can be forced to install, however dependencies might fail01:43
ShadowJKrichih_fosdem: fremantle debs wont work on chinook/diablo01:43
iPeter-newbie005: So do you have a idea what program should i download01:43
RichiH_fosdemcrashanddie: i have half a dozen dnagling ones, yes :/01:43
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newbie005iPeter-: yeah I forgot, it was completely impossible to find the download link on the website,, just a second... {not being a smart-butt another website I had found had directions...}01:45
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jacekowskiany other things that are worth to know?01:46
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mtnbkrjacekowski: get  Angry Birds   :)01:47
VDVsxjacekowski, are you running the last FW, make sure of that :)01:47
VDVsxyes Angry birds :D01:47
newbie005iPeter: my apologies it's called Super at
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pwnguinpsh angry birds01:47
pwnguinlemme tell you about sgt-puzzles01:47
crashanddieRichiH_fosdem: let me clarify that, the deb itself will probably work, however the glibc or other library versions might be completely out of sync01:48
newbie005iPeter: try this site:
pwnguinit is awesome01:48
jacekowskiVDVsx: i've updated it using app manager01:48
jacekowskiVDVsx: that 90MB update01:48
newbie005iPeter: you have to click a link to download from the first site I gave you, this link brings you to another page, a total of 3 links before you get to the exe01:49
jacekowskiand - how incompatible with vanilia linux is it ( besides of different CPU )01:49
VDVsxcool, so you are running PR 1.1 aka week 5101:49
newbie005iPeter: there is no hint that you are on a different page, or getting closer, ultimately it brings you to the following link which I believe will not work until you go through the hassle
newbie005this program has an ugly gui, but does everything, (including nintendo ds movies)01:50
newbie005also it uses ffmpeg (and mencoder)01:51
VDVsxlet me know if you need more stuff01:51
newbie005jacekowski: how incompatible? it is linux just slightly older. not 2.6.3101:52
jacekowskiwell, X?01:52
jacekowskinormall gnu libc?01:52
VDVsxjacekowski, yes, it runs X,01:52
VDVsxjacekowski, its stock linux01:53
Damion2busybox utils rather than stock fileutils and psutils01:53
Damion2that's coreutils these days now I think01:53
VDVsxbut you can have coreutils01:53
Damion2but you can install these, they just eat up disk01:53
jacekowskiand what's with that 2G avaliable for applications?01:53
VDVsxyou can install windows and MAC, so :D01:53
newbie005iPeter-: did you get it?01:53
wazdVDVsx: cool, ta01:54
Damion2jacekowski: you can repartition01:54
VDVsxwazd, I don't like the arrow color :D01:54
jacekowskithat's good idea - qemu with x86 emulation01:54
ShadowJKit's 256M /, 2gig /home /opt01:54
Damion2however 2GB isn't that bad especially with data on the the larger noexec partition01:54
wazdVDVsx: why? :)01:54
newbie005yeah I'm totally going to install Windows Vista on mine so I can listen to mp3's01:55
Damion2jacekowski: I'm workong on that01:55
Damion2jacekowski: I've not see anyone run qemu in the usermode linuxy style yet01:55
iPeter-newbie005: I got some crappy convert programs, cant think im so tired. Argh :D01:55
VDVsxwazd, dunno very whiteee, probably I used to the blue one :D01:55
Damion2I've gogt the crosscompile env set up today01:56
jacekowskiDamion2: qemu can work in usermode with full software cpu emulation01:56
jacekowskiDamion2: they did it on psp01:56
wazdVDVsx: isn't it supposed to be same color as font? :)01:56
jacekowskiDamion2: and on other platforms01:56
Damion2jacekowski: yeah I just said that :)01:56
wazdVDVsx: and DIIIIIEEEE!!!!111 anyway :D01:56
newbie005iPeter-: that program will work pretty nicely, but good luck finding the download link. I'm not sure what the deal is with that website01:56
Damion2I mean I've not seen anyone compile it for maemo5 yet01:56
jacekowskii'm thinking about iphone compatibility layer01:56
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Damion2I assume it'll just be a ./configure option when I build it01:57
Damion2I want to do dalvik01:57
jacekowskiis there any decent navigation application avaliable?01:57
* VDVsx cancels wazd 's DHL package 01:57
wazdVDVsx: :( (((01:57
Damion2jacekowski: I think a $$$ one is due any day01:57
newbie005javekowski: in my experiance the gps does not work01:57
Damion2newbie005: it's okay for me01:58
ShadowJKthe a-gps doesn't seem to work through tmobile atleast01:58
wazdVDVsx: I'm so rich that I use DHL to send an e-mail :D01:58
VDVsxwazd, no, in the stock theme is blue, is suppose to be the same color as the task switcher and close button01:58
newbie005Damion2: any tips? like leave it outside for 3 hours?01:58
VDVsxI guess01:58
Damion2newbie005: put a sim in01:58
ShadowJKand you need internet connectivity and to be outdoors01:58
newbie005is it t-mobile?01:58
newbie005I have t-mobile01:58
Damion2it's a bug not working without agps01:59
iPeter-I finally found the real link :D01:59
newbie005could it be that I need to tell t-mobile that I use gps?01:59
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Damion2my wireless worked just outside thehuse01:59
newbie005Damion2: if you mean the network location thing, I always had both enabled01:59
ShadowJKthere's a bugreport about it. Not sure if nokia's agps server is at fault, or if tmoile is interfering/blocking some types of internet traffic.01:59
ShadowJKbut apparently it works, atleast for now, if you change to
newbie005I read the bugreport,, I think. It just said to enable that networking thing and wait longer02:00
newbie005it didn't work for me02:00
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wazdVDVsx: what about gray?02:00
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newbie005I might have failed on the waiting02:01
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Damion2there is a h/ware command which might contain gps output02:01
Damion2it shows battery.  let me see if I can find it02:01
VDVsxwazd, yeah, like the close button :D :D02:01
ShadowJKDamion2: so someone was doing tests today and couldn't reproduce the failurw without agps. There's an open bug requesting more detailed information from people experiencing the bug, however so far people only whine and have not followed the instructions for gathering more information. I can only guess that it's not really that important for them ;-)02:02
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Damion2well I have network and it kinda worksfor me and I cba testing sans sim02:03
Damion2oh but ovi on my n97 is broken02:04
Damion2the app installed the new one with free nav02:04
Damion2but it seems to only want gprs for doing agps02:04
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Damion2but my sim is in my n900, I have good wifi around02:05
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Damion2anyone have any idea what's up?02:05
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ShadowJKit's like you say, it wants gprs :)02:06
Caesiumdoes it not use the cells it can see?02:06
ShadowJKWell there are two things, it looks at the CellID of the cell it's talking to, and queries a database over internet if that cell's location would be known02:07
wazdVDVsx: ready for one more update? :D02:07
Damion2ShadowJK: why?  some licencing thing?02:08
wazdVDVsx: cause agenda view is still screwed :)02:08
ShadowJKand then it also downloads satellite data, and from its approximate position it knows what satellites are overhead in the sky02:08
VDVsxwazd, sure02:08
ShadowJKwhy what?02:08
Damion2agps uses a gps and internet connection gprs cellid stuff shouldn't be needed02:08
ShadowJKit uses cellid to estimate your location02:09
ShadowJKwhich is needed for agps02:09
Damion2well google maps simply started to see satellites02:09
ShadowJKon N810 it just assumed you were near where you last used gps02:09
VDVsxwazd, gtg now, but bbl (~40 min)02:09
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ShadowJKask Nokia Care why it wont download over wifi02:10
wazdVDVsx: ok, I'll clean the mess up meanwhile02:10
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jacekowskithat FM radio02:14
jacekowskidoes it have RDS?02:14
Damion20845!  **ckers02:14
Damion2I'll call from work tomorrow02:14
openstandardshi there I've just gotten myself a n900 and having problems with the sip client I believe theres no packets being sent however I can't find tcpdump in any of the repos02:14
Damion2of course the real evil are uk mobile operators for charging a premium on local/cheap 08xx numbers02:15
ShadowJKit's not in sdk tools?02:15
jacekowski08xx don't work at all in some countries02:15
jacekowskion mobiles02:15
Damion2well they'll have their own nokia care numbers presumably02:16
openstandardsDamion2, i disagree i've dealt with worse than british operators... try america and ireland they get charged for recieving and transmitting calls02:16
Xisdibikwazd: you made a mess?02:16
Damion2oh yeah charged for receiving text in usa made me furious02:16
XisdibikDamion2: where are you from?02:17
* Caesium found tcpdump without needing any exotic repos apart from extras/extras-testing, don't think its in sdk or tools02:17
jacekowskiamerican operators are bad02:17
Lumpio-ok, maybe it wasn't a good idea to install those semi-experimental mscim packages afterall02:17
Damion2Xisdibik: uk02:17
jacekowskiand expensive02:17
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openstandardsthanks Caesium02:17
XisdibikDamion2: its pretty normal in the US, to get charged for texting while roaming,   25cents to recieve 35 cents to send,  unless you have a SMS bundle,  which then counts for recieving but still not sending02:17
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Lumpio-It would seem that even removing the packages doesn't restore the original input method02:18
Caesiumopenstandards: I would tell you which repo it was in but dpkg doesn't support that :(02:18
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Damion2oh if i install it it'll say02:19
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microlith:( I almost wonder if people installing directly from.deb files were previously winmo users02:19
Damion2Get:1 fremantle/free tcpdump 4.0.0-1 [394kB]02:19
Damion2that doesn't sound right02:20
microlithLumpio-: the ones from kimitake_idle didn't give me any fits after removal02:20
wazdXisdibik: well, I'm hacking around calendar overwhaul02:20
wazdXisdibik: agenda view is kinda weird02:20
microliththough I don't think they supported anything but JP so that may not be relevant to you :/02:20
CaesiumDamion2: that doesn't tell you enough02:21
Lumpio-Actually that's what I'm looking for02:21
Xisdibikwazd: ah,  i suggest hacking in multiple calender sync support ;)02:21
Lumpio-Infact right now I'd be satisfied to get /any/ virtual keyboard back02:21
Damion2I installed polipo02:21
spectre-goddamnit any calendar sync would do02:21
spectre-other than exchange02:21
* LinuxCode facepalms02:21
jebba2.6.28-omap1-jebba10-g5a58882 works02:21
LinuxCodeI fixed my n810 gps issues02:21
microlithLumpio-: I hvae you rebooted?02:21
Damion2it said the same but needs gnu grep rather than busybox02:21
LinuxCodethe hardware clock wasnt equal to what ntpd was setting02:22
spectre-we need funambol support and opensync02:22
Damion2jebba: you've just got a working 1.1 booting?02:22
Lumpio-microlith: yep02:22
* LinuxCode will now forever stop bitching about the gps in the N81002:22
microlithLumpio-: weird, and all of the packages are gone?02:22
Lumpio-At least the application manage app doesn't see anything mscim* related02:22
microliththat package set interfering with the virtual keyboard was known, and there was some resolution for it02:23
spectre-is there a cups implementation for the 900?02:23
spectre-i want to hook up to network printers02:23
Lumpio-I know it interferes with it. It replaces it.02:23
spectre-and such02:23
Lumpio-However I was pretty sure it was supposed to restore the original one when it's uninstalled02:24
microlithLumpio-: huh02:24
microlithmust've been a different package set then02:24
microlithspectre-: none that I've seen02:24
SWFuno cups no02:24
spectre-anyone know if something like that is in progress?02:25
t-tanjebba: congrats! so it works for you too now? why did you need to change postinst?02:25
Lumpio-oo neat, I can get it to pop up via gconf over SSH >_>02:25
Lumpio-Not very usable though.02:25
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jebbat-tan: they have a new way of flashing the kernel so postinst needed changes02:27
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microlithLumpio-: seems I have the same issue, as the vkbd won't pop up in the notes app with the slide clsosed02:28
wazdXisdibik: have you installed 1.09 btw?02:28
t-tant-tan: I simply replaced rx51_def_config from the PR1.1 original source with my own config02:28
jebbaDamion2: ya, i just got a PR1.1 kernel rebuilt. I followed up in this thread with some info:
Lumpio-I wonder where the input method settings are02:29
jebbat-tan: i needed to bring *my* postinst in line with the new one.02:29
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Lumpio-gconf lets me change the input method, but all that does is pop up whatever you set it to immediately02:29
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t-tanjebba: how does your postinst differ from the original?02:30
jebbaright now i dont think it does  ;)02:31
jebbai just have a separate debian/ dir that I copy over and i didn't update that file02:31
Damion2jebba: did something flash the bootloading firmware of the n900 hardware so that after upgrading nobody could do their own kernels until this prerelease was released?02:31
jebbaDamion2: this explains it
povbotBug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found02:32
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jacekowskiis it possible to make it work in portrait mode?02:33
t-tanjebba: do you know whether optimisation for speed (-O2) works? default is -Os02:33
jacekowskiit works02:34
Damion2jebba: do you know if a 2.6.>30 kernel can work and use the firmware blobs okay?02:34
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qwercan most android apps run on maemo?02:35
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jebbat-tan: haven't tried -O202:36
jebbaDamion2: 2.6.30> won't work because no touchscreen (and probably other issues)02:36
wazdqwer: no02:36
t-tanjebba: ok. I'm just reflashing with -O2. let's see...02:36
jebbacool. Would be interesting to benchmark02:36
qwerwhy, isn't a lot of android stuff already ported to linux?02:36
wazdqwer: you don't beleive me or you have a proper experience to change it? :)02:37
jebbaqwer: android is java, not really "linux". So maemo would need a java interpreter that can use android apps.02:37
Damion2jebba: there are specific drivers in .28 that can't be pushed in to .30+ ?02:37
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t-tanjebba: yes. -O2 works. and it's 10x faster ;-)02:38
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jebbareally? I mean really faster?02:39
Lumpio-This looks promising02:39
t-tanjebba: just kidding02:39
jebbai want 10x faster  ;)02:39
t-tanjebba: but we need some benchmarks02:39
jebbaboot time would be a good one02:39
jebbathough -OS may win that02:39
Damion2okay, and that won't compile ?02:40
t-tanthe lastest version incl source is now in my repository (see
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Damion2jebba: I either try to get older drivers working or backport the wifi infrastructure stuff down02:41
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jebbaDamion2: there was a post in December or November or so of a more recent tsc2005.c02:42
ljsdofuynsdfufuhsorry, X died02:42
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qwermy question was that since more android stuff is being ported to linux, if soon most apps will work on maemo...02:42
jebbaDamion2: perhaps ask on maemo-devel where more recent drivers are. I think they are trying to get them mainlined. It would be nice in the interim if they just made them public.,02:43
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jebbaqwer: android is java, not really "linux". So maemo would need a java interpreter that can use android apps.02:43
qwerokay, and no one has started working on one yet?02:43
jebbaa java interpreter for maemo?  Not that i've heard of qwer02:44
Damion2qwer: I'm in a position to attempt it but lack time and ability02:44
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Lumpio-oo, I got my virtual keyboard back02:44
qwerdamion2, in thoery, should it work just as well as android apps on android?02:44
Damion2qwer: I think I can get a dalvik interpreter02:44
qweror will all the features require lots of crazy work02:44
Lumpio-Now I just need to figure out what keeps overwriting my settings on reboot :I02:45
Damion2display isn't x11 though so dunno how that works02:45
ShadowJKit's dalvik not java02:45
Damion2jebba: and just the older .c file dropped in the newer kernel tree and makefiles doesn't work?02:46
t-tanan openJDK port would be nice, too02:46
jacekowskihow to copy .avi file to phone?02:46
Damion2I looked at that today02:46
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ShadowJKthere's a thread on tmo about n900 running java02:46
qwerscp and wifi, jaacekowski?02:46
Damion2openjdk download page is a tab on my work desktop firefox02:46
jebbaDamion2: you could give it a try, but i doubt it.02:47
jacekowskiwhat about usb?02:47
t-tanShadowJK: yes, SunJDK works, but it's closed and time-limited02:47
Damion2they might havde changes loads of kernel structure around it02:47
openstandardst-tan, what about openjdk?02:48
ShadowJKjacekowski: if nothing on the device is acessing MyDocs at the time, choosing mass storage mode when it asks will make the vfat partition appear as a usb-mass-storage drive on your pc02:48
jacekowskiwell, i'm using windows at the moment02:49
jacekowskiand i connect it02:49
t-tanopenstandards: In theory it should work, too. someone should port the latest lenny/lucid version to get a decent JIT. but it has lots of dependencies...02:49
qwerare android apps bound to run much slower without the android os?02:49
jacekowskiandroid apps are bound to run slow02:50
jacekowskibecuase they are running trough shitty vm02:50
openstandardsi can't actually think of any decent android apps....02:50
qweryou mean on maemo, right?02:50
jacekowskithat's not using jazzele02:50
jacekowskion android as well02:50
ShadowJKjazelle is worthless02:50
qwerwhat about comparing the two02:50
jacekowskiall android apps run in dalvik vm02:50
SWFu64google maps would be good02:50
qwertheyll run about equally fast?02:50
jacekowskiqwer: there should be no difference really02:51
GeneralAntillesSWFu64, you can't run Google Maps.02:51
qwerthat would be awesome02:51
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jacekowskiShadowJK: when i connect it in storage mode i get 2 drives with No Media on them02:51
qwerwhat about all of the hardware features?02:51
jacekowskiShadowJK: jazelle isn't worthless02:52
ShadowJKwell it doesn't really exist on A8 anyway02:52
jacekowskijava vm's using jazelle runs at least 30% faster02:52
ScribbleJAre a lot of you people staying on PR1 'till PR1.2 is out?02:52
ScribbleJHrm... I'm about to try downgrading due to my total inability to get a PR1.1 kernel to boot.02:53
ScribbleJGranted, the problem is likely me.02:53
wazdanyone with OMWeather installed and ready to blow his n900? :)02:53
Lumpio-Anyone know what hildon-input-method-configurator does exactly? (Where does it get its settings from)02:53
Damion2jebba: that bug doesn't explain why a kernel built for 1.0 can be flashed but 1.1 can't.  these are just a cimpiled zImage and the way to flash can be done via flasher yeah?02:54
qwerthe n900 looks awesome, but I'm told 'it doesnt have the support' due to not running android apps...02:54
ScribbleJI'm not jebba!02:54
qweralso, what carriers are you guys with n900s using?02:54
ScribbleJqwer, T-mobile.02:54
Damion2ScribbleJ: and I'm not talking to you :)02:54
ScribbleJDamion2, oh, hah.  My bad.02:54
ShadowJKqwer: saunalahti02:54
ShadowJK(what a silly question)02:55
t-tangood night!02:56
Damion2jebba: unless the upgrade changed the way the kernel exists in the various nand flash block devices and now a phone side fiasco thingy flashes on the device itself ?02:56
VDVsxwazd, re02:56
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VDVsxnew stuff to test?02:56
Damion2qwer: o202:56
jebbaDamion2: i think you could still flash in PR1.1 with the "external" flasher-3.5 flasher02:56
qwerdid nokia successfully prevent tmo from rebranding the n900?02:56
Damion2jebba: but ppl didn't ?02:56
jacekowskiqwer: yes02:57
Damion2 also, what carriers are you guys with n900s using?02:57
jebbaDamion2: in postinst how it is flashed is different too02:57
jacekowskii've got unbranded t-mobile nokia from carphone warehouse02:57
wazdVDVsx: yep02:57
jebbaDamion2:  at&t in USA, Telecom Personal in argentina02:57
jacekowskiwithout simlock02:57
ScribbleJI think someone who isn't retarded could flash in a 1.1 kernel.  That's not me, though.  I can flash it on, boot it a little but the device always ends up powering down instead of reaching X1102:57
wazdVDVsx: still waiting for armel to appear02:57
Damion2jebba: sorry I was pasting qwer his question02:58
jebbaScribbleJ: sounds like it can't find it's modules perhaps02:58
VDVsxwazd, ah ok02:58
ScribbleJjebba - happens even if I compile an -omap1 rx51_config kernel.02:58
ScribbleJThe /only/ kernel that boots for me is if I flash the one out of the Nokia install package.02:58
jebbahow you installing? You sure /lib/modules is ok?02:58
ScribbleJI'm not sure, but it looks OK to me.02:58
Damion2exact same name so modules dir works?  correct crosscomile flags so the kernel is the right arm type?02:59
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jebbamake sure the correct dirs are there and there are actually .kos in the dir02:59
achipaso... are Diablo builds on officially deprecated or are just things FUBAR-d ?02:59
jebbafoobar afaict02:59
Damion2jebba: did you not try flashing via flasher?03:00
Damion2yur fiasco on-phone success is great, but I'm still struggling to work this out03:01
Xisdibikwazd: 1.09 of what?03:01
wazdXisdibik: Marina03:01
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Xisdibikdunno, ive updated it a few times03:02
Xisdibiksec, checking for updates now03:02
jacekowskihow to copy .avi file over usb to phone03:02
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sar3thhow to install perl?03:06
shamuslike a thum drive03:06
jebbaDamion2: i did not try flashing it with the flasher-3.5 before today with PR1.1, no.03:06
Damion2jacekowski: if your pc didn't correctly see a drive then try rebooting03:06
Damion2jebba: okay03:06
ScribbleJYou tried it today, jebba?03:06
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Damion2jacekowski: if you attached via pc suite mode then get a usbnet driver for your os and then scp03:07
sp3000timeless: I wrote a 36-line review of problems in that 36-line function ;)03:07
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Damion2sar3th: mine came with perl I think03:07
sp3000timeless: it's quite impressive really03:07
sp3000(the code, that is)03:08
sar3thDamion2: actually, you're right :O :D03:08
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woglinde someone with garage git here?03:11
wizkoder_when I start scratchbox by clicking on the icon. how do I compile my code? Did this in the konsole with my last installation03:11
wizkoder_ah. the icon starts xephyr.03:12
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woglindedamn I get 405 and 502 errors at pushing03:14
wizkoder_sorry. just trying todo what the development guide says03:14
VDVsxwazd, updating, what shots you want now ?03:14
wazdVDVsx: just agenda view03:15
sar3this openssl preinstalled?03:15
woglindeGit access via SSH is under development. *sigh*03:16
timelesssp3000: thanks for pulling that in, clearly dinner got the better of me :(03:16
Damion2sar3th: just type these things in!03:16
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sp3000timeless: is that dinner is still growing somewhere? ;)03:17
Damion2sar3th: openssl works for me but I may have installed something that pulled it in as a dependancy03:17
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sp3000by now it might be quite formidable :D03:18
* sp3000 &03:18
wazdVDVsx: awesome :)03:20
timelesssp3000: i think that dinner was the pasta plaec03:20
sp3000I ...must admit I don't recall, heh03:21
uhsfthese flimsy screen protectors are trying to drive me insane, so I decided just not to use them03:21
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wazdVDVsx: are you satisfied with the arrow? :)03:21
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VDVsxwazd, yes :D03:22
woglindehms okay fixed03:22
wazdVDVsx: fine :)03:22
timelessit's sad, but i think i do03:22
woglindebut really strange devname@vcs istn working03:22
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xorAxAxcan somebody recommend a unittesting framework for C?03:23
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redeemanxorAxAx: cunit03:27
xorAxAxdid somebody try glib testing?03:28
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zerojayThe greekradio package... is it just basically adding shortcuts to the streams in your media player or what?03:30
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GeneralAntilles"it was not clear what the app did until I saw 200 greek radio stations in the Media-Player. uninstalling the app should have removed them."03:39
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zerojayYeah, it's a python script that runs and inserts the stations. Hmm.03:41
GeneralAntilleszerojay, I've had steak and burgers and can't seem to remember to take out the N900. . . .03:41
zerojayI keep forgetting too.03:42
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Xisdibikwazd: btw, i didnt have 1.09, updating now03:42
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zerojayWould be cool to have a package install the stations.03:44
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* zerojay mexican laugh?03:45
* timeless looks for people w/ too much time on their hands03:45
* GeneralAntilles runs.03:46
wazdXisdibik: there's 1.095 already in testing :) minor fix03:48
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Xisdibikwell i have testing in, so i guess i should have that :P03:48
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wizkoder_Let me ask different. how are xephyr and scratchbox connected. when I start the sdk with the icon I have a totally running system. how can I enter scartchbox then? when I say /scratchbox/login I get: permission denied03:50
wizkoder_Please somebody help a beginner03:51
SpeedEvilI haven't setup the scratchbox.03:51
wazdjust type scratchbox03:51
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SpeedEvilI do know that xephyr is just a special X server designed for displaying small emulated device windows on youtr desktop03:51
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wazdwizkoder_: seriously, even I was able to set up scratchbox, and I'm a brainless designer :D03:52
zerojayHe's not lying. ;)03:52
* zerojay ducks for cover.03:52
wizkoder_Last time I always did newgrp and then /scratchbox/login. But it can't be that I have to do this all the time?03:53
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woglindeslow upload03:53
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wizkoder_start xserver. export display of the scratchbox. and then " start". I want an icon that does everything03:55
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wizkoder_Guess I got it :-)03:58
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daniel_Hey B-man04:04
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daniel_hey dude04:09
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* wazd1 wonders if his poor 450W PB can handle 2nd 9800GT and Phenom X3...04:12
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uhsfi just found a new purpose for my neo freerunner04:24
uhsfmy freerunner will now serve as a step under my n900's kick stand so it's raised at the right angle04:25
Paveluhsf: That's cold.04:28
GeneralAntillesuhsf, I hear you can use it as an external battery pack, too. *g*04:32
uhsfwith a usb cable i guess so, other good idea04:33
uhsfis there a use for the "pc suite" usb mode in linux? or should i always use the usm mode?04:33
Paveluhsf: The question is, is there a "PC Suite" for Linux?04:33
woglindepush is through04:33
woglindegood nite04:33
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GeneralAntillesuhsf, sure, if you want to tether.04:34
GeneralAntilles(and not bottleneck on Bluetooth)04:34
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uhsfif i understand, there is no pc suite for linux, but the pc suite mode is used for usb networking in linux, like i did with my freerunner, which is more useful than usm mode, which i should keep for example to connect other people's pc to download files04:41
GeneralAntillesPC Suite is a bit of a misnomer, unfortunately.04:41
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DocScrutinizerbat-level at 50% after 1h of UMTS and ~10h of WLAN, with irc and SIP and some GPS activity05:00
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uhsfi think that's good enough05:04
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uhsfi didn't experience battery life yet05:05
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DocScrutinizeryeah not exactly great but also not that bad05:17
LinuxCode3g is a battery rapist05:18
ScribbleJIf I build with EXTRAVERSION=omap1-scribble1 then the modules should go in /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1-scribble1....right?05:18
SpeedEvilI wish it was possible to 'hot swap' bats.05:18
SpeedEvilOr at least suspend-disk to work05:18
LinuxCodethere was an external battery pack for the N81005:19
LinuxCodebut the N900 now uses micro-usb to charge or ?05:19
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SpeedEvilLinuxCode: yes05:19
SpeedEvila teeny stepup converter is easy though.05:19
LinuxCodeas its an agreed standard now, ou should see external batteries soon05:20 has many05:20
LinuxCodeif there arent ones already05:20
SpeedEvilThe quality may vary of course.05:20
LinuxCodedoes the N900 die when you put the cable and in and take the battery out ?05:20
SpeedEvilIt does not die - but it turns off05:21
SpeedEvil :)05:22
SpeedEvilI suspect genuine may mean something different in china though05:22
LinuxCodemy n810 also goes off05:22
LinuxCodethey dont know the meaning of genuine05:23
uhsfis the only way to enable rd mode to flash using --enable-rd-mode flag?05:26
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DocScrutinizerpowering via USB isn't optimized for efficiency05:27
DocScrutinizermeans you burn 50% of energy of the external bat05:28
SpeedEvilIt's not a SMPS?05:28
uhsfdo i have to reflash my n900 to enable rd mode?05:28
SpeedEvilWhy do you want to?05:29
uhsfto use usb networking05:30
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uhsfthat's exactly what i was reading05:31
SpeedEvilDon't see where it mentions rd05:31
uhsffirst command in this howto is sudo gainroot, and it gives Enable RD mode if you want to break your device.05:32
infobotwell, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here:, or
uhsfdo you have rd mode enabled?05:32
SpeedEvilyou don't need to05:32
SpeedEvilinstall rooths05:32
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uhsfi'm usually the kind of person that tweaks a lot of things, i hope i won't find that i needed rd mode once my maemo is all configured05:34
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SpeedEvilI'm not aware of anything you actually need it for05:35
SpeedEvilYou can - for example - change the window manager to mwm - without it.05:35
uhsfif i need rootsh to use usb networking but it's not installed by default, that means a wifi network is necessary to start with a n90005:36
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SpeedEvilor gsm05:37
uhsfpeople without a wireless router must be annoyed by this05:37
Dnab55hey guys, do you know is B-man is in here?05:37
Dnab55Bman 17?05:37
SpeedEvilOr you can download the rootsh file, and copy it to mass sotrage05:37
ScribbleJThere are people without a wireless router?05:38
ScribbleJWho knew?05:38
ScribbleJThat those people would have any intersection with the people who will pay $500 for a phone...05:38
ScribbleJamazing, frankly!05:39
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uhsfi just think all these little steps to get usb networking are so lame. of course everyone will need rootsh just install it by default it's ridiculous05:41
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DocScrutinizeractually it's ridiculous USB-networking needs rootsh05:45
GeneralAntillesUSB networking is a waste of time.05:50
uhsfyou only use wifi?05:51
uhsfmy n900 is plugged most of the time anyway05:51
uhsfbetter use usb05:51
* luke-jr only uses wifi, except when playing with kernel stuff05:51
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GeneralAntillesUSB charging from bus power sucks05:52
uhsfwhy is plugging to wall socket better?05:53
GeneralAntillesMore than twice the amperage.05:54
GeneralAntilles500mA can't even charge the N900 under load.05:54
luke-jrN810 has an independent power source anyhow05:54
uhsfsome kind of palm pre touchtone would be nice05:54
luke-jrI hear Google's next phone will have a keyboard <.<05:54
uhsfat home i only use wifi to split my internet bill with my neihbor05:54
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luke-jrthough I'm currently pondering if it might make more sense to find a bluetooth kb I can make into a clamshell case, and put a kb-less phone in that05:55
luke-jruhsf: don't Canadian ISPs prohibit that?05:55
uhsfyes just don't tell them05:56
shamusthere is nothign wrong with barowign the nabers wifi05:58
shamusjust be sure to put it back when your done ;-)05:58
DocScrutinizerwhat are you going to do at your job, when it's policy of your company not to have wifi on their network?05:59
shamushook up wifi outside the network?06:00
DocScrutinizerand for "it's not charging on load with 500mA" - o.O so that load is of a kind that sucks battery to flat in ~2h06:00
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DocScrutinizershamus: err, what?06:00
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shamuserr brain fart06:00
Dnab55hey bman06:01
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b-man17hello Dnab55 :)06:04
b-man17jump on #xceleo xD06:04
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* DocScrutinizer notices quite a policy break from "users shouldn't have to worry about filesystem, so we cheat and show 'drives' and no homedir access' -- to "use rootsh if you need usb-networking"06:04
ArkenoiQuite strange, but i do not see ussdpad in repositories, where is it?06:05
DocScrutinizernah pad isn't in repo06:06
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: and
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: annoying but there's no clean package for a simple install06:08
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uhsfdo you use vnc or just ssh?06:18
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luke-jroh wow06:19
* luke-jr just realized his Zaurus SL-C760 runs a newer kernel than his N810 <.<06:19
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uhsfi'm looking for a convenient way to control my n900 with my keyboard/pointer. i use synergy between my workstation and notebook but there is no official port of synergy for the n90006:20
uhsfvnc seems much heavier on ressources for the same purpose06:21
ScribbleJI use x2x on my desktop and I'm looking to use it on my n900 myself.06:21
ScribbleJI haevn't gotten around to see whether it's somehting to easily port yet though.06:22
DocScrutinizerssh -X foo ?06:22
ScribbleJActually, ssh -X doesn't Just Work06:22
ScribbleJbut I haven't looked to see why yet.06:22
ScribbleJToo busy trying to build a kernel.06:22
shamusssh -x dosent work?06:22
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ScribbleJDoesn't for me... apps started in X display on the phone.06:23
ScribbleJYeah, I didn't say that right.06:23
ScribbleJX apps I start from the ssh session display on the phone.06:24
shamusthats odd06:24
ScribbleJI'm probably doing something retarded... usually am.06:24
ScribbleJI think my big issue with my kernel came down to not running depmod on the new modules (?)06:25
ScribbleJI offer that up as proof of my retardedness.06:25
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DocScrutinizerdon't worry - others try to ping their wallwart charger for 30 minutes XP06:26
DocScrutinizerwell those cables could use different color plastics anyway06:27
ScribbleJOh man,... ..  it's slow so I'll tell you how retarded I am.06:27
ScribbleJ(Mine do have different colored plastics, incidentally, the USB on has a grey part)06:28
ScribbleJI was going to a important conference in another state and had to fly out in the morning, and didn't have a laptop so I ran out and bought one the night before at Fry's.  Cheap.06:28
ScribbleJI went home and spent a couple hours installing linux on it and starting to get it configured...06:28
DocScrutinizercomparing them side by side and grabbing my torch I realize you're right06:28
ScribbleJWhen it just stopped booting.06:29
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ScribbleJWell, I had to fly out, nothing I could do - so I handed it off to one of our sales guys and told him to return it to Fry's, get a new one, and meet me at the conference with it.06:29
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ScribbleJHe calls me from Fry's.  The technician there says it works fine.06:30
ScribbleJTurns out it did work fine.  I had never plugged it in.06:30
ScribbleJThat was about five years ago and the guys at the office /still/ won't let me live it down.06:31
shamusyou mean they dont charg wirelessly ;-)06:31
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ScribbleJhooray!  I'm finally booting my own kernel.  It's so difficult being retarded.06:43
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luke-jrScribbleJ: congrats06:48
ScribbleJNow I just need to find the userspace iptables / ip tools06:49
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uhsfis MyDocs like my ~/ directory?06:50
johnsu01what do I do about the fact that garage doesn't list maemo 5 as an option for tablet OS version?06:51
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kamui__johnsu01, look for freemantle06:55
johnsu01kamui__: only choices are OS200x06:55
johnsu01and they stop at 806:56
kamui__lame sauce06:56
uhsfno wget?06:57
uhsfhow to install wget?06:57
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DocScrutinizerapt-get install wget ?06:58
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DocScrutinizerrootsh apt-get install wget ?06:58
kamui__isn't rootsh depreciated?06:58
kamui__no idea doc06:59
uhsfnot all available packages are shown in app manager?06:59
kamui__thought you had to use either root, or sudo gainroot06:59
kamui__and sudo and rootsh don't work anymore (sudo without modification to sudoers)06:59
DocScrutinizerwell, I always use 'root \r apt-foo doodle bla \r exit'07:00
kamui__looney tunes07:00
kamui__I would never type that on the N900 ;p07:00
DocScrutinizerkamui__: you might be right07:00
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chaoyiHas anyone compiled aptitude or libept on freemantle?07:02
kamui__dude, I just ran fennec full07:02
kamui__its much faster than the last RC07:02
kamui__it turns out all this time I thought I had the newest version07:02
kamui__but I had both the beta repo and the final07:03
kamui__what a botched update07:03
kamui__I blame myself07:03
DocScrutinizeruhsf: I've been tought you need shell to install apps you run in shell07:05
DocScrutinizeruhsf: so wget probably not listed in HAM07:05
DocScrutinizerthough liq* apps install libliq foo, which in turn installs wget07:06
uhsfdo i need libliq?07:07
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DocScrutinizerthus liqtorch needs some tens of MB, to display an empty white screen.  My desktop bookmark to 'about:blank" does the same with maybe 30 bytes :-P  - and it's faster too07:08
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pupnikliqtorch installs a whole framework of stuff iirc07:09
DocScrutinizeruhsf: I don't know if you need libliq. For sure not for wget07:09
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ieatlintyeah, i'm routinely impressed with the size/dependencies of some of the apps07:11
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DocScrutinizerliqtorch tops them all07:12
pupnikwhy mention it07:12
ieatlinthow about the google latitude updater which requires 18.1mb07:12
ieatlintrequires two qt libraries, libqt4-webkit and libqt4-phonon07:13
ieatlintpushes a bloated 6mb app up by 12mb07:13
uhsfNokia-N900-51-1 is a pretty fugly hostname07:13
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uhsfis it easy to change username and hostname?07:14
DocScrutinizerpupnik: just because I was going "wtf where went wget??" when I deinstalled liqtorch07:14
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DocScrutinizerand uhsf was asking about wget07:14
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uhsfwhat white screen does liqtorch do?07:15
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DocScrutinizerso what I probably intended to say was "don't worry if wget is vanishing, that's just libliq"07:15
DocScrutinizerbright white light to guide thru the night ;-P07:16
uhsfi thought the nokia white screen with the two hands during boot is kinda gay07:16
DocScrutinizeryeah I need to replace that one by something more geeky eventually07:19
pupnikusing maps eats a fair amt of battery07:21
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DocScrutinizeresp if you're on UMTS07:23
DocScrutinizerwhich probably is the standard usecase07:23
pupnikgoing to 2G helps eh07:24
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DocScrutinizeryou did tests to actually compare?07:27
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* DocScrutinizer just curious about how much of a difference it actually makes07:28
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pupnik_i really dont like any media player07:31
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pupnik_none pulls up a directory07:31
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uhsfhow to change ssh password?07:33
chaoyiuhsf: passwd07:34
uhsfit's the same as user password?07:34
DocScrutinizerif you log in as user, then yes07:34
uhsf'cause passwd told me user password can't be changed07:34
l7login as root to change it then07:35
uhsfi guess it needs rootsh07:35
shamuswhen you installed the ssh server it shoudl have prompted you for the new password07:35
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shamusor is ssh included by defiult on the n90007:36
uhsfshamus: i know but i think i mistyped with the tiny keyboard and now i can't find what was mistyped07:36
shamusah that not good07:37
chaoyiuhsf: install rootsh \r sudo gainroot \r passwd07:37
uhsfssh install needs a password confirmation like the cli has07:39
shamusyes the lack of a confirmation is anoying07:39
uhsfpasswd seems to change the user password but not the ssh password07:41
pupnik_bah gotta switch batteries07:41
chaoyiuhsf: passwd changed password for 'root', to change password for user, type 'passwd user'07:42
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uhsfah, finally sshd to my n90007:46
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uhsfi guess my error was taking the shift for that other function shift or vice versa07:47
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pupnik_we should be able to ssh over bluetooth pairing07:48
pupnik_who wants to work on that07:48
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uhsfcount me out for working on bluetooth for linux07:48
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kamui__damn it mugen07:49
kamui__its february07:49
kamui__still no extended battery07:49
uhsfunless maybe if you get the sony sisaxis controller working via bluetooth with the n900 i might be interested07:50
kamui__I THOUGHT the 6axis was working07:50
pupnik_i have one in backpack07:50
kamui__same with wiimote07:50
chaoyipupnik_: this might work07:50
DocScrutinizerwtf is .ly ?07:51
pupnik_ty chaoi07:51
pupnik_id really like to get it integrated07:52
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chaoyipupnik_: i haven't tried yet.  I hope so too, like iphone07:52
pupnik_so you just seek and pair, then click "network"07:53
pupnik_was looking into avahi also07:53
uhsflot of crappy dirs in /07:53
chaoyifeel free to remove /floppy07:56
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uhsfdo you change user name and host name or you keep them defaults?07:57
chaoyii think 'user' user name is hard coded in a lot of programs, so i doubt i can change that07:58
uhsfthat sucks07:59
uhsfwhat's MyDocs?07:59
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chaoyiyour vfat partition is mounted there08:00
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uhsfso it's all that's available when using ums usb mode08:01
uhsfso a fat partition makes for 27GB of my 32GB08:02
uhsfnot that great08:03
pupnikif you are geek enough to need a linux partition then you are geek enough to make one?  :)  could be easier tho :)08:04
DocScrutinizeruhsf: hostname isn't a problem to change08:04
ShadowJKthe ext3 partition is mounted on /home, it's pretty impossible to kill all apps that access that, which would be a prerequisite to offering it over usb massstorage08:04
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DocScrutinizernuke mass storage08:06
chaoyiShadowJK: what would be the easiest way? boot alternative os from microsd?08:07
DocScrutinizerchaoyi: for what exactly?08:07
chaoyiDocScrutinizer: like resize / partition08:07
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uhsfthe microsd could be used for ums and they should have left the internal flash linux only08:08
DocScrutinizeryou can't resize / part08:08
DocScrutinizerit's NAND and exactly 256MB (minus bl etc partitions)08:08
chaoyiDocScrutinizer: oh right, it's 256m08:08
chaoyiDocScrutinizer: resize /opt partition maybe?08:09
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uhsfDocScrutinizer: i'm glad hostname isn't a problem to change08:09
DocScrutinizerI wish /opt was a partiton08:09
uhsfbut i wish user name wasn't hard coded and could be changed08:09
chaoyiDocScrutinizer: /opt is symlinked to /home08:10
DocScrutinizerI know08:11
chaoyiDocScrutinizer: to resize /dev/mmcblk0, is it best to use an alternative os from microsd08:11
chaoyiDocScrutinizer: i mean to resize partitions in /dev/mmcblk008:12
* Arkenoi actually never needed mass storage mode as scp is handy enough and it does not lock anything08:13
DocScrutinizeras long as you manage to umount, I think you don't need another rootfs to boot from08:14
DocScrutinizeras I said08:14
DocScrutinizernuke mass storage08:14
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RST38hArkenoi: scp is slow08:15
chaoyimass storage is best to transfer pc game to lab machines08:16
DocScrutinizeryou might want to enter something like sftp://user@ to Konqueror (or any other browser of your preference)08:17
ArkenoiRST38h, well, if i was really concerned about speed, i'd use nfs. but i am not.08:17
chaoyii'm glad to find out bluetooth has 200kB/s08:17
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ArkenoiRST38h, btw have you noticed i've updated my russian n900 faq today? are there things worth mentioning i've missed?08:18
chaoyianyone use ssh reverse tunneling here?08:20
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RST38hyou should mention Maep08:21
chaoyiwhat is Maep?08:22
RST38hArkenoi: 2GB of video will take forever to copy via nfs or ssh08:22
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uhsfCouldn't find package screen?08:23
chaoyiRST38h: i have a microsd reader in my wallet08:23
DocScrutinizerme too08:23
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RST38hand you all open your N900s, take cards out, write to them, put them back in, and close N900s just to weatch a video?08:25
Arkenoirst38h: what is it good for?08:25
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RST38hArkenoi: Maep? It is a better map application08:26
DocScrutinizerRST38h: either I watch a stream08:26
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ...or my videos *are* on uSD already, so I'll have to swap anyway08:26
uhsfdo i only need to edit the line in /etc/hostname to change hostname?08:27
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chaoyiuhsf: add this repo 'deb fremantle/tools free non-free' for screen08:27
Arkenoirst38: exactly what is better with it?08:28
DocScrutinizerThanks for reminding me. Last flashing reset it08:28
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uhsfi shortened hostname to "N900"08:28
RST38hArkenoi: Less bugs. Simpler UI. Works faster.08:28
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Arkenoirst38h: i am still waiting for proper yandex traffic support in maemo-mapper08:30
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uhsfchaoyi: this line goes in /etc/apt/?08:31
chaoyiuhsf: put in a file in '/etc/apt/sources.list.d'08:32
uhsfmy debian years seem a long time ago now08:32
RST38hArkenoi: You can write the author but I doubt it will ever happen. Yandex uses tile format incompatible with Maemo Mapper08:33
RST38hArkenoi: Hence a specially hacked build08:33
RST38hArkenoi: BTW, MTS now offers two unlimited data plans08:33
RST38h(bandwidth capped)08:34
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Arkenoirst38h: not going to change my phone number anyways :-(08:37
RST38hmasochist =)08:37
Arkenoiwell, maep is good map application, but it is just a map. search is basically broken and there is no route planning. but it is fast as hell!08:38
uhsfi kinda hate the hardcoded user name and MyDocs08:39
Arkenoiwill write a line in the faq now08:39
pupniki so need power.  i cannot use n900 in a miserly fashion08:40
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slonopotamuslol? /var/lib/dpkg/info is 21mb.08:41
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Arkenoirst38h: i guess there should be also a mapping application to use scanned raster military maps (here are damn many fans of those in Russia), do you know its name?08:44
chaoyimy laptop's is 7M08:44
slonopotamuschaoyi, that's from n900 :/08:44
RST38hArkenoi: When walking around the place, Maep is priceless08:45
chaoyislonopotamus: i checked too mine is also 21m08:45
RST38hArkenoi: Well, there is none right now. Personally, I would love to have connected to Maep or Maemo Mapper08:45
Arkenoirst38h: yep. if you are not going to search for nearby objects ;-)08:45
Arkenoithat's amazing08:45
RST38hArkenoi: But the Maep guy already refused saying he does not do local stuff08:45
Arkenoirst38h: ask shmuma then08:46
slonopotamuschaoyi, it seems a bit... too much08:46
RST38hArkenoi: Not gonna to, I do not like what shmuma is doing08:46
ArkenoiRST38h, what's wrong with it?08:47
chaoyislonopotamus: 'dpkg -l | wc -l ' is 1744, my laptop only has like 20008:47
DocScrutinizerhmm, sftp over wifi maxes out at 650KiB/s08:48
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RST38hArkenoi: He is hacking some adhoc solution inside Maemo Mapper and does not care to promote those changes into the mainline version08:50
RST38hArkenoi: I prefer to use mainline.08:50
Arkenoirst38h: i was under the impression he has a reason to fork, maybe his changes were not accepted in the mainline? he says he changed *really* much08:51
RST38hArkenoi: The "correct" way would be to make a proxy server that transcodes Yandex maps into whatever format mainline Maemo Mapper understands and then add that server as a map source08:51
RST38hArkenoi: Yes, it is that "changed really much" that I do not like.08:52
Arkenoithis makes us dependant on stability of yet another online service08:52
RST38hwe already are, does not change a thing08:52
RST38hBesides, the guy WORKS for Yandex, so he should be able to do it straight at Yandex server08:52
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* RST38h ==> work08:53
pupnikmaemo mapper has gotten powahful08:54
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cehtehdoes downloading/caching maps work now?08:56
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cehtehhey my new device should be delivered later today ...08:56
chaoyilast week i got mine, enable rd-mode immediately, found out keyboard is flashing , called dell for replacement and now i have two in my hand08:59
chaoyii feel bad, gonna return tomorrow08:59
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uhsfi'm trying to run a program directly in MyDocs but i get permission denied08:59
chaoyiit's mounted with noexec?09:00
cehtehchaoyi: lol09:00
slonopotamuschaoyi, err... they didn't take first one? :)09:00
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uhsfhow to run a binary program i downloaded?09:00
chaoyislonopotamus: i should return in 10 days09:01
cehtehuhsf: chmod +x09:01
slonopotamuscehteh, no. noexec on fat partition.09:01
cehtehchaoyi: the keyboard flashing in r&d mode is intentional09:01
chaoyicehteh: yeah, i know09:01
chaoyicehteh: now09:01
cehtehslonopotamus: ah ok09:02
uhsfi know but chmod but where to place the binary?09:02
cehtehuhsf: them copy it somewhere to /usr or /opt ... /opt/bin or whatever09:02
slonopotamusuhsf, anywhere _except_ /home/user :)09:02
slonopotamuscorrection: except /home/user/MyDocs09:03
cehtehyes just mkdir /home/user/bin   add that tp path and copy it there would work09:03
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chaoyiwhat do you have in your /usr/local/bin directory right now?  i compiled unison, sed, find, grep, gzip, od09:06
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chaoyiod in busybox breaks my autossh09:08
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slonopotamuschaoyi, what's od at all?09:08
slonopotamusor, as timeless says, ever :)09:08
chaoyia utility in coreutils09:09
chaoyitranslate hex maybe?09:09
slonopotamusyou're asking me?09:10
chaoyislonopotamus: autossh complained about that file, so i just grabbed that one from coreutils09:10
inzod seems to stand for octal dump09:11
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chaoyithis line breaks, randport=$( od -x -N2 -An /dev/urandom | tr -d ' ' )09:12
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DocScrutinizer~nuke busybox09:13
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at busybox ... B☢☢M!09:13
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slonopotamusshould't that be KA-BOOM?09:14
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slonopotamusinfobot, no such font on n900, btw.09:15
slonopotamusno symbols, i mean.09:15
DocScrutinizernice radioactivity signs here on desktop PC09:16
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chaoyiDocScrutinizer: me too, Lucida Grnde09:17
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Arkenoiseems that it would be wise to blank a screen "logically" somehow before it is switched off physically. seems that desktop widgets are still running while the screen is dark - if you "park" the phone on, say, xterm, it saves battery power much09:19
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DocScrutinizerduh, really?09:20
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DocScrutinizerthat's quite a bug then09:21
inzHmm, they dropped most of my patches in vte, wonder if they kept the one that disabled the cursor blinking timeout when the cursor is not blinking...09:21
Arkenoijust tried that and my battery is still 38% after 24 hours09:21
Arkenoiif i do not it runs out nearly that time09:21
cehtehArkenoi: this patches are included now?09:22
slonopotamusArkenoi, revolted machine? (just checking)09:22
Arkenoino patches, just "parked" it on maximized xterm09:23
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Arkenoislonopotamus, yep09:23
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cehtehah .. that perhaps turns compositing off09:23
cehtehthat could save some power09:24
cehtehwell and hiding other widgets09:24
Arkenoii guess it is possible to write a daemon that will do that automatically?09:24
johnsu01nethack-console in extras-devel now09:24
cehtehfullscreen xterm?09:25
cehtehimo the powermanagement should be smart enough to do that without some hacks09:25
Arkenoicehteh: invoke a screen blaking application on "screen off" event09:25
CorsacI wondered if parking on an empty workspace would help too :)09:25
DocScrutinizercehteh: ack09:25
cehtehwell the xserver is bit strange there due the propietary opengles09:26
cehtehdoes xset work?09:26
johnsu01cehteh: no not full-screen xterm09:26
cehtehiirc the screen management is completely done by some system stuff .. mce, systemui, clutter whatever09:27
cehtehhope and pray its one of the opensourced parts09:27
DocScrutinizernope isn't09:27
DocScrutinizerthat's power management basically09:28
cehtehhmm but pm events should be go over dbus maybe its possible to write a small daemon09:28
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cehtehsometimes i want to slap nokia in the face..09:28
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, i'd say that's X server screensaving.09:29
johnsu01slap the source out the mouth09:29
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cehtehhaving the most open phone is one nice thing, being not open and flawed in vital parts is annoying09:29
DocScrutinizerbasically power management should treat the app that holds focus same way as hidden apps, as soon as scrren goes black09:29
cehtehor even notify "hey we are sleeping now, maybe you can do even less"09:30
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DocScrutinizerexcept of course when you have a video out hooked up09:30
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cehtehi wont care if the weather widget doesnt update while the screen is off .. just when some update was pending and i turn the screen on it might do a delayed update09:31
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DocScrutinizercehteh: that's exactly what powermanagement does on hidden apps09:31
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cehtehfor my laptop i have such a script, when the lid is closed it SIGSTOP's all interative applications09:31
Corsacis there a concept of XSCB-Original-Uploaders?09:31
cehtehDocScrutinizer: if it does then we have a bug, because it seems not consistent then09:31
DocScrutinizerthat's quite a bug then09:32
cehtehwell maybe i add such a 'SIGSTOP' thing to my n90009:32
DocScrutinizercehteh: it's all there already09:32
cehtehfrom my last impression it was quite good at telling apps to sleep ..09:32
DocScrutinizerjust the part for screen blanking missing obviously09:33
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i mean real sigstop nit just wait on events09:33
DocScrutinizeryou probably don't want to do this09:33
cehtehwith selected apps i have no problem09:34
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cehtehmy script has a list of applications to stop09:34
DocScrutinizerbasically the app should wait anyway. An app that needs sigstop is buggy for a mobile device09:35
cehtehbrowserd could be candidate for example  (stopping flash and javascript while pages are open)09:35
cehtehyes but hey this is not a ideal world09:35
cehtehand how does the webbrowser know that a javascript wich is constantly running might be stopped?09:36
cehtehyou know webdesigners have no real clues about programming09:36
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wazdhello maermo09:37
cehtehif its some ajax which chit-chats with some server even without screen updates you are prolly on your own stopping that09:37
cehtehanyways i have that since years on my laptop and it works quite well09:38
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asj_rm_you: hoo?10:16
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JaffaMorning, all10:47
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RichiH_fosdemis anyone presenting a n900 at fosdem?10:55
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lardmanhmm, this BBC article about new Ovi maps is just taunting me: ""We're averaging a download a second, 24 hours a day," said Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's executive vice president. "10:58
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lardmanDo we have full flash rather than flash-lite?11:04
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andre41RichiH_fosdem, presenting don't know, but there's definitely talks about it, and booths where you can play with one11:05
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RST38hApple has warned developers that they can't use location-based services such as the Core Location framework to deliver ads to iPhone11:08
RST38h(this Register article is nicely adorned with a picture of N900 and a link to its review)11:08
lardmanI don't see any problem with delivering ads, just as long as a user knows the app they are using will do it11:09
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lardmanand can stop using the app and stop the ads11:09
RST38hlardman: You do not but Apple does.11:09
lardmanyeah, well :)11:09
* RST38h wonders if Apple is simply testing how far they can abuse developers before those start leaving11:10
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Corsaclardman: i think the emphasys was on “location-based services”11:22
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ifreqhow do you remove own uploaded package from repos?11:26
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ifreq(from devel)11:27
`0660_which package is it? so i know to download it while it's still there :)11:27
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ifreq`0660_: haha :D11:27
ifreq`0660_: its library, im not sure is it stable enough to survive on repo hell :)11:27
ifreqeven tho it compiles "OK"11:28
zashRST38h: wasn't there a /. article about some dev(s?) jumping ship?11:28
Corsacifreq: if it builds, it works!11:29
ifreqokay fine!11:29
ifreqwhat about builds that do not "build", are they removed from garage after some time?11:30
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RST38hzash: No, just moaning, but still taking it into their backsides.11:37
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RichiH_fosdemandrei1089: kk, cool11:47
lardmanifreq: no, Garage is the repo, doesn't need to build11:47
lardmannot repo, sorry wrong wording11:47
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lardmanlocation for the source is what I meant11:47
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sgbirchAnyone know where source code for telepathy-msn-pecan resides, is it in git?11:47
sgbirchwe really need a single git repo whcih tracks EVERYTHING on the device. Finding source sucks11:49
lardmanis probably upstream11:49
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lardmanso wander to the Telepathy website and see what they have11:49
sgbirchlardman: thx11:50
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* hrw-gone-fosdem is brussels12:20
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hrw-gone-fosdemI mean in Brussels of course12:22
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hrw-gone-fosdemtime to go12:23
* Pavlov doesn't get there until tomorrow :/12:24
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Jaffakonttori_nokia: ping12:27
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CorsacDamion2: with java!!12:31
Corsacit's way better than a real n90012:31
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Corsac and nice UI12:32
mgedminha ha ha12:33
fragmentwow, it even supports ovi store :P12:33
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mgedminbut they reduced the screen resolution to 320x24012:34
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ifreq btw guys :  go test its on repos :)12:41
mgedmina bit retro, isn't it? ;)12:42
ifreqyeah, but i like console tools/utils :)12:42
mgedmin"-1 not hildonized"12:42
Wolfiewell, that's pretty nice (and geeky)
wazdmgedmin: tell this to the guy at t.m.o who hates GUIs12:42
ifreqmgedmin: i dont know the hildonize basics yet12:43
* mgedmin was joking12:43
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ifreqkeybindings could need some rework.. mayb on next version12:45
ifreqmgedmin: it was my 1st package i ever build :)12:45
ifreqso good practice with help of jebba and lcuk12:45
ifreqnow i can contribute!12:45
ifreqto teh community :)12:45
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andrei1089RichiH_fosdem, hi13:09
konttori_nokiaJaffa, pong13:09
RichiH_fosdemandrei1089: hi13:13
RichiH_fosdemoh, i tab completed to the wrong guy13:13
RichiH_fosdemsorry :)13:13
RichiH_fosdemandre41: ok, cool13:14
RichiH_fosdemandre41: any idea about what specific stands to look for?13:14
andre41I think the GNOME stand should have at least a N900 to show13:14
andre41plus there are some talks related to it13:14
andre41really got to go now to catch my flight to Brussels, sorry13:14
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chaoyiis 'ifup' called by icd2?13:16
iridianis there way to set the default dbus timeout with qt/dbus?13:16
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* Stskeeps passed his masters thesis exam13:20
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fralscongrats Stskeeps :)13:21
MyrttiStskeeps: congrats \o/13:21
chaoyicongrats \o/13:22
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Jaffakonttori_nokia: Was wondering if the find-as-you-type list/tree view feature in Hildon was going to be in PR1.2?13:26
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konttori_nokiaJaffa, yes it is there13:28
konttori_nokiaand works really well13:28
Jaffakonttori_nokia: Cool stuff.13:28
konttori_nokiayou can also expect it to be there for most of the apps as well13:28
* Jaffa has marked a request for it as WONTFIX in Hermes, pending its release :)13:28
* Jaffa will still possibly make code changes if it doesn't work OOTB13:28
fralsfingerscrossed it makes it to pyhildon asap ;)13:28
konttori_nokiaif you have multiple columns in the treeview, you need to a) either provide own filter function, or b) select one column as the text search column13:29
Jaffakonttori_nokia: Presumably though it doesn't use the existing GtkTreeView API for it?13:30
konttori_nokiait should use the existing api even (the one where you select the search column)13:30
* smaug___ forgot to complain about N900's email client to meamo people13:32
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IcanCUdoes silverlight work on the n900?13:38
threshif it does, i'd pay someone to break it13:40
MistaEDIcanCU: i think you can get mono to run, and thus moonlight on top, but you won't get that MS proprietary codecs pack to work for wmv playback as i think they're binary blobs for x8613:40
IcanCUi see13:41
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* RST38h moos at konttori, thresh, zap, VDVsx13:42
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VDVsxmorning RST38h :)13:51
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IcanCUso should i wait for the next maemo device?13:55
IcanCUor get one now13:55
IcanCUmaemo seems really interesting13:55
IcanCUbut next upgrade seems to bring a lot new features13:55
koala_manthat'll probably always be the case13:55
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Damion2hmm. it's hard finding docs on building qemu in scratchbox, seeing as scratchbox uses qemu itself13:57
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Damion2do I want armeb or arm ?13:59
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lardmanDamion2: you want ARMEL14:26
lardmancertainly not ARMEB anyway14:26
lardmanL=little-endian, B=big-endian14:26
lardmandefault is L afaik (i.e with no L or B)14:27
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Damion2sb-menu doesn't have armel only arm and armeb14:30
Damion2I'll skim more docs14:30
Damion2I've already built and tested ls :)14:30
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Damion2qemu is proving more awkward14:31
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lardmango for arm then14:32
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lardmanonly a little while to wait for some of ours then chaps ;)14:37
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lardmanam off, have a nice day all14:44
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rom1dephi maemo folk ! I'm trying to understand how filesystems are mounted on the n900... what the hell is this 205M of / ? where are applications stored ? How is it possible that I have to remove some programs to be able to sens sms again ? what would happen if I fill 100% of my root ?14:45
mgedmin/ is ubifs on a 256 MB NAND flash device14:46
mgedminwhere applications are stored depends on packaging: usually either in / or in /opt14:46
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mgedminI *think* SMSes are stored on a different partition -- probably /home?14:47
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mgedmin/opt and /home are the same partition, actually14:47
mgedmin2GB ext214:47
wazdReheya all14:47
mgedminif you fill your root to 100%, it won't be pleasant, but nothing _too_ bad should happen14:47
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mgedminubifs is a log-structured filesystem that delays freeing up space to a background garbage collector14:48
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mgedminactually I'm not sure there is a background gc14:48
mgedminubifs does gc on reboot, so a reboot usually frees up significant chunks of /14:48
mgedminI've heard that 'sync' will also trigger gc, but haven't verified that14:49
rom1depmgedmin: thanks alot for these explainations, so if someone misspackages something, libs and co are going to / , the normal path for external apps is /opt so ?14:49
SpeedEvildf;sync;df = -128k14:50
SpeedEvilrom1dep: it's not quite like that.14:50
SpeedEvilrom1dep: ideally thinks are symlinked from / into /opt14:50
Jaffa*Ideally* things install into /opt; *practically* most things symlink14:51
rom1depchosing /opt is strange... but well, ok... but how is it that simple to fill / ? I mean.. it's more than unfriendly for user reading "well, do some cleanup, there is no more space for speaking with your friends !"14:51
SpeedEvilI just woke up - I was assuming hte lack of /opt in path - but ogf course that's irrelevant14:51
Jaffarom1dep: Eh?14:52
rom1depI had such a message, twice.. I uninstalled a theme and another package to save some space on / I was able to send messages back, after that...14:53
ifreqanyone running conky on n900.. any positive/negative thoughts about it?14:54
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rom1depSo, if I encountered that, I'm guilty because I used missconfigured packages from extras-{testing/devel} ?14:54
Damion2/etc/ doesn't even contain /opt/usr/lib/ or similar14:55
Damion2which would be handy14:55
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Damion2I guess you can use ld options when building14:55
JaffaDamion2: There's a suggestion somewhere about doing that; but it'd've increased the QA on Maemo 5 too much and it wouldn't have made it out the door when it did14:55
Jaffarom1dep: Probably, yes.14:55
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rom1depok, I'm pretty new with deb packaging (my netbook+server runs fedora/mandriva) is there an easy way to list which packages are using / instead of /opt , and in that case reporting bugs on garage ? (something like a for including something to list packages and for each package, listing installed files... + |grep ?)14:59
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Jaffarom1dep: Relatively easy, yes - but be aware of
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* wazd swears stskeeps15:04
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Damion2gah, qemu's configure is saying Unsupported CPU = unknown15:05
Stskeepswazd: mm?15:05
wazdStskeeps: oh, I thought you're at the defence :)15:06
Stskeepswazd: passed, now got a comp.sci masters degree :)15:06
wazdStskeeps: old weird russian student tradition :D15:06
rom1depJaffa: you mean, running pymaemo-optify will help me determining which packages are misspackaged ?15:07
wazdStskeeps: wooo! And you're still not drunk?!15:07
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Stskeepswazd: in about 1-2 hours i will be15:07
Stskeepsstudent bar opening there15:07
wazdStskeeps: you now can go to the masters bar :D with vodka and girls :D15:08
VDVsxdifferent bars like in the army :D15:08
VDVsxStskeeps, congrats ;)15:09
Jaffarom1dep: No. Python packages which have a transitive dependency on pymaemo-optify can install in certain locations in /usr but still be optified.15:09
wazdStskeeps: now you can accept padawans? :D15:09
Stskeepswazd: hehe15:10
rom1depJaffa: ahhhh... Well, I'll ignore python-related packages in that case...15:10
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wazdStskeeps: well, since it's a great holiday today, then I'm gonna go and buy new CPU and SLI video :) 2nd christmas!15:11
Stskeepswhat did you burn out? :P15:11
wazdNothing, but my athlon X2 4200 is too weak for today's things :)15:12
rom1depdefinition of "today's things" is very random ^^15:14
ShadowJKhow about slashdot15:14
ShadowJKthat page feels slow on Q955015:14
rom1depwow, you know, there is a world behind internet explorer xD (yepp, that was a troll ;) )15:16
ShadowJKfirefox actually :)15:16
rom1depjust another question, is is possible to run binaries stored on the 20+Gb-vfat partition ?15:17
* rom1dep waiting for copying the whole jre .. or not15:18
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mgedminwell, yes, but not easily15:18
rom1depsomething like an option somewhere in the fstab ?15:18
* ShadowJK has memory card formatted ext315:18
ShadowJKdoesn't automount tho15:18
* rom1dep thinks doing like ShadowJK in that case..15:19
rom1depmanually mounting ext3 won't be that hard, but too bad that ext3 isn't handled by default :(15:20
rom1depmgedmin: what is -quickly- your workaround to get it work ?15:20
Damion2what's wrong with mounting as ext2?15:20
mgedminrom1dep, what sort of executable?15:20
Damion2they are compatible, you just lose some extra features of the filesystem like journalling15:21
mgedmin/lib/ /path/to/exec might work15:21
rom1depmgedmin: sun's jdk arm port, yepp, shame on me, i like java programming...15:21
Damion2mgedmin: I tried that and was surprised to find that noexec mountpoint actually stopped it working15:21
mgedminwhat, the thing?15:21
andresThat was fixed around 2.6.26 or so I think...15:22
mgedminwhat was fixed?15:22
Damion2mgedmin: yeah, I thought it might be a clever workaround15:22
ShadowJK///usr/sbin/mmc-mount (it's a small script) btw15:22
Damion2I've not tried LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/noexec/place/blah.so15:22
Damion2but I suspect ther kernel magic people have addressed that too15:23
rom1depmgedmin: okay :) I'll try that !15:23
andresmgedmin: using on a noexec mounted fs15:23
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mgedminbut sh /script/on/noexec/fs still works, I assume?15:24
Arif_woo, I'm finally getting the N900 :D15:24
mgedminArif_, congrats!15:24
Arif_thanks :)15:24
Arif_I got tired of waiting so I bought it 2nd hand :P15:24
Arif_are there any more things I should check apart from the dead mic and WD32_TO reboot errors?15:25
andresmgedmin: yes15:26
cehtehpixel errors, cam slider coming loose, usb connector come loose15:26
andresmgedmin: the kernel is not involved there...15:26
cehtehslider mechanism loose15:26
JaffaGeneralAntilles: You have exciting ("do some work") email ;-)15:26
Arif_thanks :)15:26
cehtehis the 'accellerometer appears to be stuck' fixed in pr1.1?15:27
cehtehmhm and my new device should now come any minute *waiting*15:27
cehtehxorAxAx: how is dwimd going?15:27
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xorAxAxits running15:28
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cehtehinstalling doesnt break the device? :)15:29
cehtehwell we should promote it more15:29
* cehteh waits for the postman15:29
xorAxAxthe next step would be an autoaway application15:29
xorAxAxthat uses dwimd15:29
cehtehand a configuration gui15:29
rom1depDo you also have this little magnetig square got peeled off (the one that takes the support leg closed) ?15:29
cehtehrom1dep: urgs .. thats a new one15:30
cehtehbut i guess that easily fixable with some glue15:30
mgedminunless you lose the magnet, I suppose15:31
mgedminouch ouch ouch15:31
rom1depcehteh: yep, known ? too bad, I'll try superglue but that contrasts with the impression of robustness that gave me first :)15:31
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mgedminmy biggest fear is that the flimsy "stand" will break off15:31
rom1depmgedmin: i'm lucky enough to have not lots the magnet :)15:31
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rom1depuntil you don't sit on it it must survive ^^15:32
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rom1depanyway, I don't use it that much, that "stand" is too small I think15:33
cehtehiirc the whole backcover isnt that expensive to replace15:35
cehtehthere where prices somwhere15:35
cehtehbut yes, a solid stand like on the n810 would be better15:36
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mgedminactually, I broke one of those15:37
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mgedmin... by sitting on it15:37
mgedminnah, just kidding15:37
mgedminhooked the charger with my leg and it flew onto the floor15:37
lcukn900anyone built the fosdem schedule app thingy ive seen floating around?15:37
mgedminthe stand bent slightly sideways15:37
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mgedminI bent it back, most of the way15:38
Lumpio-Is it possible to send cookies to the media player with DBus? (
lcukn900mg? a n900 stand bent?15:38
mgedminit rubs a bit on one side when you close it15:38
Lumpio-I'd like to play a video but it requires an authentication cookie to play15:38
lcukn900i thought those were indestructable15:38
mgedminno, this was a n81015:38
mgedminand the stand no longer has intermediate positions after the adventure15:38
mgedminit's either open all the way, or not15:38
rom1depmgedmin: too bad :(15:38
lcukn900heh i dud that15:38
mgedminno convenient reading angle15:38
mgedminthe n900 came out just in time to rescue me15:38
lcukn900take it off and reshape it15:39
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* w00t rests his brain for a bit15:39
* Stskeeps ponders going for booze money15:39
w00tI have been writing far too much code for a friday..15:39
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w00tStskeeps: got people to meet up with for fun and profit?15:40
Stskeepsw00t: old work mates15:40
w00tnobody, not even a new masters graduate, should drink alone ;p15:40
lcukn900hey w00t15:40
* mgedmin never finished his masters...15:41
w00tmorning lcukn900 :)15:41
w00tmgedmin: don't feel lonely, I never went to university at all15:41
* lcukn900 is airporting15:41
* ifreq is master of the universe15:41
lcukn900to fosdem15:41
w00tthough I hope to, one day15:41
w00tlcukn900: damn you you lucky bastard *shake fist*15:41
* ifreq is heading to Post Office.. new cb radio waiting15:41
lcukn900w00t mm its a collabora company meeting almost lol15:41
Arif_anyone have an N900 with KMplayer installed?15:41
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DassuArif_: Many people15:42
DassuArif_: I for one but I haven't used it15:42
lcukn900mg are you at fosdem?15:42
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Arif_anyone willing to test out if my satellite card streams to the N90015:42
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DassuArif_: :) Why can't you test it yoruself ?15:43
w00tlcukn900: I was going to be there, but, decided that given my situation and the fact that I totally forgot about it until last week, that I should probably not :-/15:43
Arif_I don't have an N900 yet15:43
DassuArif_: ok, throw me with the url15:43
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Damion2andres: interesting how recent that is, I was going to patch to not run arguments as it's not a normal use for it15:44
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andresYou can still circumvent it, so...15:45
Damion2does LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/ work ?15:45
mgedminlcukn900, my xchat doesn't highlight 'mg'15:46
mgedminsadly no15:46
* mgedmin wishes he could come to fosdem15:46
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Damion2anyone know what I can do about:15:49
Damion2  LINK  i386-linux-user/qemu-i38615:49
Damion2libqemu.a(tcg.o): In function `flush_icache_range':15:49
Damion2/home/damion/src/qemu-0.12.2/tcg/arm/tcg-target.h:78: undefined reference to `__builtin___clear_cache'15:49
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mgedminthat sounds like a gcc builtin, no?15:51
* mgedmin is threading on very thin ice here15:51
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Damion2yeah, I have an awful workaround15:51
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lcukn900mgedmin fosdem i missed if u answered, are u comin15:52
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I'm excited.15:52
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mgedminlcukn900, sadly I'm not coming15:53
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lcukn900booo hiss15:53
mgedminunless the black helicopters come and kidnap me15:53
* mgedmin a bit short on cash currently to self-finance this15:53
* lcukn900 has to go im onboard15:53
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Goodo :)15:54
GeneralAntillesThose dancing robots creep me out.15:55
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Gadgetoid_mbpHmmm Nokia N900 + SIXAXIS = WIN16:00
threshwait whut16:01
Lumpio-o right, the PS3 controller was Bluetooth16:01
Lumpio-I wish the wiicontrol app would work properly >_>16:01
fralsgreat, my domainhosting service seems to be nuked out of orbit, no dns :(16:01
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Lumpio-I might have to write a better one...16:04
Lumpio-Having an actual app running just for an input device seems a bit excessive anyways16:04
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Lumpio-Maybe a widget or a top-menu-thingie button for connecting to it16:04
chaoyiwhy Method "Connect" with signature "s" on interface "org.bluez.Network" doesn't exist?16:05
chaoyianyone could help me with dbus-send?  thanks16:06
Damion2[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/src/qemu-0.12.2/i386-linux-user] > ./qemu-i38616:07
Damion2mmap: No such device or address16:07
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GeneralAntillesIs switchboard still having issues killing MicroB simply by virtue of being installed?16:11
sinclairhi everone16:11
Damion2hello sinclair16:12
sinclairi'm having really bad issues with touch on my N900... sometimes i have to spend 5-10 seconds just pressing again and again to close programs... i have calibrated and re-calibrated but it's still extremely bad, any suggestions?16:14
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Damion2are you using nail or ball of finger?16:14
sinclairball of finger16:14
JaffaGeneralAntilles: There's a thread on tmo - new version in -testing IIRC16:15
koala_mansinclair: does the button light up, but then nothing happens?16:15
Damion2sinclair: use your nail, even gently the single point helps16:15
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Damion2on an iphone you can almost not touch the screen and it detects it, on the n900 you need actual press, not much but significantly more than the iphone.16:16
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Damion2even a very gentle nail will provide accuracy and will be detected16:17
sinclairsometimes it's lit when i remove my finger but usually no light response just sound16:17
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koala_manduring high cpu usage, some apps can take several seconds to respond to close events. it's not just that, is it?16:19
adeusthen again, try to use the iphone outside with gloves on :)16:21
crashanddiekoala_man: the scheduler can have a hard time sometimes, yes16:23
Damion2adeus: yeah, I didn't bother with the evangalising side of my response16:23
rom1depiPhone's touchscreen sucks :)16:23
Damion2adeus: I'm happy with resistive and miss nails working on an iphone, otoh they really do amaze me with the gentleness that works16:24
crashanddieanyone who goes into the whole iphone sucks debate again gets banned for life16:24
Damion2okay I'm annoyed now, I can't even execute hello world16:24
crashanddieDamion2: paste code16:24
crashanddieDamion2: and compilation line16:24
Damion2crashanddie: okay, hold on.  I can compile and run arm ls, and I've just compiled qemu-i38616:25
Damion2which also runs, but it won't execute x86 ./hello16:25
Damion2despite the fact that it should16:25
crashanddiedon't bother with x8616:25
Damion2this is on the n90016:25
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crashanddiewhy are you trying to run x86 code on n900?16:25
Damion2I should be able to run arbitary x86 linux binaries albeit slowly on the n90016:25
Caesiumyou really are sick :)16:26
crashanddienot natively16:26
Damion2cos I want to run wine, this has been done on PPC16:26
Damion2Caesium: I'm glad you're following16:26
Caesiumrebuild wine for arm? :)16:26
Damion2that's not possible16:26
Caesiumoh it'll want ms libs that are x86?16:26
crashanddieCaesium: indeed16:26
Caesiumyeah didn't think before saying that.16:26
Damion2however qemu-i386 should be able to run it, this has been done before on ppc16:26
crashanddieDamion2: let's go from the beginning, what exactly are you trying to achieve?16:27
Damion2I want to run wine ./notepad.exe (well actually some 1990s games)16:27
Damion2the speed, I feel will be acceptable based on dosbox'es performance16:27
Damion2I found that somebody on PPC arch was able to run x86 wine under qemu16:27
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Damion2so I've tried to compile qemu for arm16:28
Damion2I had to kludge one failing builtin function16:28
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Damion2it could well be my problem16:28
crashanddieso you want to run windows binaries emulated by an emulator on a 600Mhz CPU?16:28
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Damion2crashanddie: these were fast enough on a p9016:28
Damion2qemu in user linux mode is quite fast16:28
crashanddieyou need to get into new games ;)16:28
Damion2I'm not emulating hardware and crap16:28
crashanddieanyway, yes16:28
crashanddieso qemu works?16:28
Damion2well it runs16:28
crashanddiedefine runs16:29
Damion2?:/home/opt/root# ./qemu-i38616:29
Damion2qemu-i386 version 0.12.2, Copyright (c) 2003-2008 Fabrice Bellard16:29
Damion2usage: qemu-i386 [options] program [arguments...]16:29
Damion2Linux CPU emulator (compiled for i386 emulation)16:29
Damion2when I put ./hello as a parameter to it it segv's16:29
crashanddiecan you trace it?16:29
Damion2hello was built with gcc -o hello -static hello.c16:29
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Damion2yeah, that's long16:29
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Damion2any suggested pastebin urls?16:29
crashanddieDamion2: gcc was called from what exactly?16:30
crashanddieDamion2: compiling it as static is a bad idea. Unless you intend on re-writing 3/4 of wine, obviously16:31
cehtehxorAxAx: es ist da :P16:31
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CaesiumDamion2: is hello 32 or 64bit? does qemu play with 64bit binaries if it's 64?16:32
Damion2crashanddie: true, but I've not got to the point where I'll be copying the libs over16:32
Damion2I don't think it's possible to make wine static anymore16:32
Damion2Caesium: 3216:32
Damion2I think it's quite possible this IS my awful kludge16:32
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crashanddie133, actually16:33
GeneralAntillesDOSbox on N8x0 hit about 16MHz at optimal settings. . . .16:33
Damion2somebody compiled dosbox, I probably should try and see how they compiled qemu16:33
Damion2GeneralAntilles: oh :(16:33
Damion2oh wait on n8x016:33
crashanddiewhich line does it segfault at?16:33
GeneralAntillesSo, maybe, 25-40MHz on N90016:34
GeneralAntillesAgain, optimal settings.16:34
Damion2crashanddie: not sure the bottom ?16:34
CaesiumDamion2: there /are/ a lot of calls to cacheflush in there, if you kludged that it seems the best place to start ;)16:34
crashanddieDamion2: ah k16:34
Damion2Caesium: yeah :)16:34
Damion2I just created a void for __builtin___clear_cache and linked the .o in ;)16:34
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crashanddieDamion2: have you asked in qemu?16:35
Damion2no I've only _just_ started to try this16:35
CaesiumDamion2: do you have __clear_cache in libgcc at all?16:36
Damion2not sure, strings it?16:36
Damion2oh yeah16:36
Caesiumif so you could make your .o call that16:36
Damion2not had to use that in years16:36
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Damion200000000 T __clear_cache16:37
Caesiumtakes the same two args that __builtin___clear_cache does, just try passing it through?16:38
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Damion2just call __clear_cache from my __builtin___clear_cache() ?16:39
Caesiumif you don't have it, I have the freebsd assembler arm code for it ;)16:39
Damion2what does 00000000 T __clear_cache mean in the nm output ?16:39
Caesiumoh wait it's C16:39
Damion2what type should this be?16:40
Damion2this is going to exceed my rusty C16:40
Caesiumchar *16:40
Damion2how did yuo know the two args?  you have code in front of you ?16:41
Caesiumpartly from and confirmed by freebsd /usr/src :)16:41
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Caesiumthis is how freebsd does it:
CaesiumI was just looking up if sysarch() which appears to be the magic bit, is on Linux16:42
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Damion2GeneralAntilles: that's pretty slow.  However the win95 I've seen running wasn't THAT bad.  This should be a good %age faster running notepad.exe IMO16:42
mgedminCaesium, it's a syscall, according to the comment16:42
* Caesium nods16:43
mgedminso that code is somewhat useless on Linux...16:43
Caesium     sysarch — architecture‐dependent system call16:43
Caesiumso we just need the equivalent on linux16:43
Caesiumhell, put some embedded asm in if you can't find the C way to do it? :)16:43
Caesiumthe concept is the same16:43
Caesiumanyway hopefully his libgcc will have __clear_cache16:44
CaesiumI was just going a step ahead in case it doesn't16:44
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thesovcan someone help me, i optified my /var/lib/apt/lists aby symlink and now my app manager wont update them but apt-get update will.16:46
Damion2Caesium: you are a star16:46
Damion2?:/home/opt/root# ./qemu-i386-2 ./hello16:46
Damion2Hello World16:46
Caesiumnice :)16:46
Damion2yeah this is kinda sweet :)16:46
Damion2?:/home/opt/root# file hello16:46
Damion2hello: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, statically linked, stripped16:46
Damion2?:/home/opt/root# file `which file`16:46
Damion2/usr/bin/file: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped16:46
Damion2?:/home/opt/root# ./qemu-i386-2 ./hello16:47
Damion2Hello World16:47
Caesiumwe get it ;)16:47
Damion2I wonder if anyone on TMO will get it16:47
Caesiumso wine now? :p16:47
Damion2I'll copy libs over and see if I can run random weird x86 only stuff16:47
Damion2ooh cfdisk :)16:47
Corsacthen you want binfmt so you can have transparency :)16:47
Caesiumperhaps start with something that might not trash your ubifs :P16:47
thesovu actually got qemu to work on maemo? wow im impressed.16:48
Caesiumme too, though I want to see how fast it is at doing something useful ;)16:48
Damion2thesov: well dosbox was done ages ago16:49
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Damion2ooh I'll try google maps16:49
satmdthe wireless chip on n900 doesn't support ap mode, does it?16:50
GeneralAntillessatmd, it does, just a driver issue.16:50
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GeneralAntillesPatches welcome, etc.16:50
satmdoh :D16:50
thesovnow someone quick help me with my apt problem16:50
Damion2satmd: that needs a kernel >.3016:51
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Damion2when they added the AP stuff in to the newer wifi framework16:51
Caesiumthesov: app manager may dislike symlinks, try a bind mount ala pymaemo?16:52
* Caesium dislikes bind mounts though, clutters df16:52
thesovi have no idea what a bind mount is but i will look into it. this is my first linux system16:53
* Caesium aliases df on his n900 to "df / /tmp /home/ /media/mmc1" to keep it a bit cleaner16:53
Damion2Caesium: that's a handy tip16:53
mgedminCaesium, no /home/MyDocs?16:53
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Caesiumoh yes, that too.16:54
Damion2mgedmin: it's Umteen GB how is it going to get full ?16:54
Caesiumthat's not a good reason not to keep an eye on it ;)16:54
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mgedminwhile true; do date >> ~/MyDocs/.silently-fill-up-all-disk-space; sleep 1; done16:54
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satmdthesov: a bind mount makes a directory tree available at another place16:55
thesovif only n900 had an x86 processor16:55
satmdmount -o bind /somepath /someotherpath16:55
SpeedEvilthesov: so it could have a battery life of 3 minutes!16:55
mgedminI once found a Beagle log file that was GIGABYTES of error messages trying to index the same broken file over and over again16:55
mgedminit was a fresh install, so I had maybe 70 gigs of free disk space16:55
mgedminBeagle filled it all up16:55
GeneralAntillestherock, SpeedEvil isn't joking, either. :)16:55
mgedminso why can't Tracker do something similar?16:55
CaesiumNokia-N900-42-11:~# alias16:55
Caesiumdf='df / /tmp /home /home/user/MyDocs /media/mmc1'16:55
Caesiumthats better :)16:55
torindelthesov: just get htc with normal x86 vista installed then :P16:55
thesovdude look at geode uses 1 watt of power at idle16:56
GeneralAntillestherock, OMAP3 uses basically none.16:56
GeneralAntillesthesov, and gets better performance than a Geode.16:57
GeneralAntillesthesov, at absolute full blast, the N900 MIGHT use 2-2.5 watts.16:57
GeneralAntillesWith every possible piece of equipment in the device on full power.16:57
GeneralAntillesPractically speaking that's impossible.16:57
GeneralAntillesNormal usage the OMAP3 uses next to nothing.16:57
GeneralAntillesx86 is in a whole different timezone as far as power consumption is concerned.16:58
GeneralAntillesSo, please, don't pretend like you know something here. There's a damn good reason ARM is, by far, the most common architecture on the planet.16:58
crashanddiethesov: basically, the board on which the n900 runs is able to disable specific parts of its hardware to reflect the needs16:58
torindelthesov: just calc how big battery you will need to have if you want it to live week at idle if it drains 1W16:58
GeneralAntillesand do so several times a second.16:59
thesovlol i guess i want a pc as a phone.16:59
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rom1depgood day !16:59
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I vote troll16:59
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crashanddiethesov: you might want to leave16:59
Damion2what about the transmet... sorry I couldn't keep a straight face16:59
GeneralAntillesthesov, yes, now we're back to 3 minutes of battery life.16:59
thesovyeah. oh well i like my n90017:00
crashanddiethat's the spirit17:00
thesovnow gonna try to fix my apt lists thanks for advice guys17:01
crashanddie"bout 98 percent of the more than one billion mobile phones sold each year use at least one ARM processor."17:01
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: going to get myself a kawa er517:04
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, your organ donor card in order? :P17:04
crashanddieon the back of the driving license17:05
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Damion2ooh, I wonder if I can nfs mount and then chroot in to an x86 linux now17:06
Damion2dynamically linked execution ...17:08
Damion2?:/home/opt/root/lib# ../qemu-i386-2 ./ --library-path `pwd` ../ls17:08
Damion2qemu: Unsupported syscall: 24017:08
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Damion2hmm, :-} qemu: Unsupported syscall: 24017:08
crashanddieDamion2: please use a pastebin17:09
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crashanddieagain, we just went from the cute hoping to the annoying dev17:09
Damion2I thought <10 lines wasn't an issue17:09
GeneralAntillesIt's 517:09
crashanddiemore than 2 lines is an issue17:09
Damion2I type fast17:09
GeneralAntillesDepending on length. :P17:09
GeneralAntillesand channel activity17:09
crashanddiei'm out17:09
Damion2it's deathly quiet atm17:09
crashanddieso it's back to 517:09
crashanddieDamion2: didn't your parents tell you not to talk back? :P17:10
crashanddieanyway, 'ater17:11
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lopzhi :D17:19
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, we have any provisions for images?17:26
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: No17:27
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: I can could look at adding them; what's the use-case?17:27
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I just wanted to provide a small thumbnail off to the side for Marina.17:28
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Ah.17:28
GeneralAntillesCould be useful for applications, too.17:28
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Does the image you'd want to use already exist?17:28
* Jaffa wants it to small and speedy to download/useful to read offline, though.17:28
GeneralAntillesJaffa, maybe.17:29
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GeneralAntillesI was thinking, like, 200px width.17:29
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schaschDocscrutinizer: can I use may freerunner-wallcharger for the N900?17:31
mgedmindoes it implement the microUSB charger spec?17:31
schaschI do not know? it is miniusb, but with an adapter ?17:32
tybolltI use regular usb wallchargers but w/ a USB A -> microusb cable17:33
tybolltworks a treat17:33
tybolltalbeit my b0rked cable lacks the teeth, kinda annoying :)17:33
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shamusthe n900 can charege via usb?17:34
Caesiumthat's all it can charge via17:35
* mgedmin was thinking about this:
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shamusguess i realy should of gone with the n900 insted of a n800 if i had the money17:37
shamusas dam the n800 is getign old17:37
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* Caesium is hoping they'll make some hardware revisions to the N900, but unlikely I suppose17:38
CaesiumI've heard far too many scary stories of the USB plug coming completely detached, so I'm super-careful with mine atm, and it'd be nice if the USB plug was at the bottom so you could actually use a dock with it, and a few other little things17:38
GeneralAntillesBottom? Ugh17:38
Caesiumhave you tried having a phonecall while charging the N900? :)17:39
GeneralAntillesThen it'd be REALLY unusable plugged in.17:39
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Lumpio-Every plug configuration has their downsides17:39
GeneralAntillesIt's better up top than on the bottom.17:39
Lumpio-On the sides, it gets in your hands' way17:39
Lumpio-On the bottom it makes the stand thing unusable17:39
Lumpio-On the top it makes the thing unstable on any kind of dock or stand17:39
Caesiumsorry I mean the "bottom" when held in portrait.17:39
Lumpio-We need wireless power.17:39
Lumpio-And comm17:39
w00ton the back!17:40
* w00t ducks17:40
Damion2I sleep on the right and so the cable has to flop over to the left17:40
Lumpio-w00t: Or the middle of the screen17:40
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Damion2the n97 had its at the bottom and was better on the fingers17:40
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Damion2ooh it could be on the underside17:40
Damion2straight in to the battery, and batteries could be charged themselves17:40
GeneralAntillesCaesium, portrait. Pfft.17:41
shamusbatterys that charg via usb would be to convient fo charging up spairs17:41
GeneralAntillesshamus, then you'd need built-in charging circuitry.17:42
GeneralAntillesCost, bulk, reliability.17:42
shamusfast cheep reliable pick 217:42
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Damion2shamus: I was kidding, nobody will do that :)17:46
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Damion2although you can get:
shamusand there a joke17:46
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Damion2there a joke lies?17:46
Damion2or they're a joke?17:46
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shamusthe usb AA's?17:47
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shamusi have heard hore storyed as to how bad they are17:47
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zap_Anybody knows which call will set up GTK to use maemo skin in 4.x? Calling hildon_program_get_instance() from main() doesn't help, gtk still uses default look-n-feel17:58
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zapdo I need libosso or libhildon is enough for this?18:00
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inzzap, how are you running your program?18:16
inzzap, if you are running it manually from command line, you should use my_program18:17
inzzap, otherwise the theme should "just work" in gtk+ apps18:17
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rm_yousup GeneralAntilles :P18:20
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GeneralAntillesHey, rm_you.18:22
rm_youSo i just got laid off from my job, and decided since i have time now i'd actually work on ABL before i have to send my phone back :P18:23
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rm_youso i upgraded to the new SDK and plugged my phone in to update the firmware18:24
rm_youand the USB jack thing happened T_T18:24
rm_youso i guess i'm off to buy a new phone18:24
mgedminripped it out, did you?18:26
rm_youlol yep18:26
rm_youtotally pulled a HULK on it18:26
rm_yougood thing i didn't pay for this and would be sending it back in a month anyway :P18:27
tybolltso maybe my usb cable being sans the teeth is .. a good thing? :)18:27
rm_youprobably :P18:27
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rm_youi guess in the meantime I can work in the SDK and give beta debs to people to test :P18:28
GAN900I can't believe they used a surface mount.18:28
GAN900rm_you, ping Quim.18:28
GAN900I think he's got some devices about.18:28
tybolltGAN900: as in opposed to ... ?18:28
rm_youlol, what good will that do? they aren't gonna send me a new device when I'd be sending it back in april?18:28
rm_youtybollt: did you read this:  ?18:29
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rm_youor the followup:
GAN900tybollt, a through-board post mount.18:30
rm_youbesides, you know what Quim thinks about ABL :P lol18:30
GAN900rm_you, might be able to get a longer loan.18:30
GAN900rm_you, couldn't hurt to try18:30
rm_youi guess18:30
tybolltGAN900: more expensive, innit? :)18:30
GAN900Besides, April's still a ways away yet.18:30
rm_youwas deciding whether to try to go grab another n90018:31
rm_youor a nexus one for like $300 less18:31
GAN900tybollt, not by much and probably cheaper than the lost sales and repairs caused by having to replace the shit surface mount.18:31
tybolltnexis is EUR 300 less than n900?18:31
uhsfhow to associate my worstation hostname to it's ip so i can just ssh username@hostname instead of username@ip from my n900?18:31
GAN900rm_you, I'll fly up there and kick your ass.18:31
rm_youlol GAN18:31
rm_youyeah i was looking forward to having my n900 at Texas Linux Fest18:32
rm_youwhich would be cutting it close anyway as it's April 10th18:32
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tybolltbtw are the preprod units upgradeable to PR1.118:32
rm_youtybollt: n900 is still ~$500US AFAIK18:32
GAN900They're putting together a community event budget.18:32
rm_younexus one is $179USD18:32
GAN900tybollt, yes.18:32
GAN900rm_you, ++contract18:33
rm_youGAN900: who is>18:33
GAN900rm_you, Texrat, afb and co18:33
rm_youGAN900: so? was gonna do that anyway18:33
rm_youfor TX Linux fest?18:33
GAN900rm_you, so you might want to run a table.18:33
tybolltLeaked Nexus One Documents: $530 Unlocked, $180 With T-Mobile ...18:33
rm_youGAN900: cool i'll have to talk to em18:33
rm_youtybollt: it's shipping...18:33
GAN900rm_you, which gives more justification to have a device. :P18:33
rm_youhow do I get ahold of texrat anyway18:34
rm_youis that his blog?18:34
GAN900Talk PM is reliable18:34
GAN900What's the dbus recipe for setting an alarm on my roommate's N900?18:35
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rm_youGAN900: talkPM says he's blocking PMs18:40
fralsanyone managed to get the "context menu" to be correctly themed using python+gtk?18:41
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uhsfwhy i can't just ssh username@hostname instead of username@ip from my n900?18:44
ifreqyour dns is not working18:44
Lumpio-That sounds more like a DNS problem than an SSH problem18:45
ScribbleJWhat they said.18:45
mikexcrwhat's is hostname? domain.tld ?18:45
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ScribbleJYour DNS is likely wrong.18:45
mikexcr17:47 < ScribbleJ> Your DNS is likely wrong.18:45
mikexcr17:47 < mikexcr> what's18:45
ifreqmikexcr: yes .. in this case18:45
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mikexcrwrrr f*cking touchpad..18:45
Lumpio-Either your phone's in the wrong network, your DNS server is borked or your hostname is wrong.18:45
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mikexcrsee /etc/resolv.conf <:18:45
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mikexcrgoogle dns18:45
ScribbleJGive him some useful advice.18:46
adalaluhsf: wait, is your nokia on a wlan? or on a 3g?18:46
ScribbleJLike using nslookup on the commandline to see what he can resolve.18:46
adalaland are you trying to  connect over the internet? or across the network18:46
uhsfadalal: usb network, direct to the pc i ssh to18:47
ScribbleJIs that PC set up to forward your traffic and act as a firewall -- or else to serve you DNS itself?18:47
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, email, maybe.18:47
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uhsfi didn't set anything special18:48
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ScribbleJObviously, uhsf18:48
ScribbleJYou'd have to set up dns specially in that scenario.18:48
ScribbleJSo... that's why.18:48
adalaluhsf: usb network? doesn't the hostname register with the dhcp to allow that?18:49
uhsfit's just a linux pc with a hostname connected to a router and i connect my n900 to this pc with usb cable18:49
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ScribbleJuhsf, so... why should the names work then? IT sounds like you shoudl expect name resolution to fail.18:49
ScribbleJuhsf, what makes you think it shoudl be working?18:49
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uhsfit works from my notebook to my pc18:50
ScribbleJIs your notebook hooked up to the PC over USB?18:50
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uhsfbut it's through my router18:50
ScribbleJWhat makes you think it should be working?18:50
ScribbleJHow is the n900 supposed to magically get DNS information?18:51
uhsfhostnames only work with the router?18:51
adalaljust a usb connection?!.. that's weird...18:51
ScribbleJuhsf, hostnames only work with DNS.  Now, what DNS server can your n900 talk to?18:51
ScribbleJNone of them.18:51
ScribbleJSo hw is it supposed to resolve names?18:51
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ScribbleJIt's not.18:51
adalaljust a normal usb connection wouldn't make a network connection18:51
ScribbleJGive it a DNS server.  Like, for instance, put dnsmasq on your pc18:51
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ScribbleJNow, can anyone explain to me why the oak tree in my yard doesn't grow golden bricks?18:52
uhsfi wish i had a router with a usb port but none of them seems to support dd-wrt18:52
naxxatoe|mbphi guys, anyone else expierience problems with their mircro sd card & n900? mine is in and gets shown correctly on my mac (vfat format) when i connect the phone using the cable, but when the phone is in regular mode, it doesnt recognise the card18:52
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uhsfso i have to run a dns server on my pc even if i already have one in my router18:53
ScribbleJuhsf, or else configure your pc to forward the traffic apprpriatelyt.18:53
ScribbleJYou're kind of new to computers I take it.18:53
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GeneralAntillesYes, because DNS is Computers 101. . . .18:54
uhsfi'm new with some things, not new with others18:54
ScribbleJGeneralAntilles, I think the basic problem he is having is not understanding that his n900 has to be able to communicate with his router to get dns from it.18:54
ScribbleJThat sort of ... these two things are not connected issue... is below computers 101.18:55
uhsfsecurity and networking is something i don't like so i just set it once and forget about it18:55
GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, you've lost touch with reality.18:55
ScribbleJThat's probably true.18:55
kovI would say it should work out of the box18:55
ScribbleJBut you shoudl see the view from my ivory tower.18:55
ScribbleJIt's /awesome/.18:55
w00tlost problem with reality, hehe.18:55
w00tI keep wondering just how far away from reality I'm getting right now.18:56
kovconnecting an openmoko to my laptop did work out of the box, with network manager having a 'shared' wired connection setup18:56
kovhaven't tried the n900 in such a setup, given it gets along with my wireless router just fine, though18:56
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kovuhsf, are you using network manager in your laptop?18:56
naxxatoe|mbpanyone expierienceing problems with microsd cards on n900?18:56
ScribbleJI am, naxxatoe.18:57
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ScribbleJThe problem I'm having is; the big ones are expensive.18:57
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naxxatoe|mbpi have tried a 4 gig one18:57
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naxxatoe|mbpand it doesnt work -.-18:58
naxxatoe|mbpcool thing is18:58
naxxatoe|mbpwhen i connect my phone using the cable18:58
naxxatoe|mbpthe card shows up on the pc18:58
w00tGeneralAntilles: my 'losing touch of reality' case: connect4 is now 894 lines of code, and nearly multiplayer. it can already cope with variable size boards and variable numbers of players..18:58
naxxatoe|mbpbut its never recognised by the phone18:58
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naxxatoe|mbpany ideas?18:59
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ScribbleJWhat format parititon is on it, naxxatoe ?18:59
ScribbleJI mean... filesystme.18:59
naxxatoe|mbpvfat, but i tried ext2 and ext3 befor18:59
rm_youGeneralAntilles: Aight, I sent him an email via Talk, so we'll see.18:59
naxxatoe|mbpwhat would you recommend?18:59
GeneralAntillesw00t, as long as you have enough perspective to see it. *g*18:59
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w00tGeneralAntilles: I just know that it's totally and utterly spiralling out of control. Though I must admit I do look forward to playing a 10 player game on a 100x100 grid.19:00
ScribbleJWell, I'm pretty sure the N900 builtin tools expect it to be vfat but beyond that I know nothing.19:00
naxxatoe|mbpwell its vfat19:01
ScribbleJI bought a 16gb uSD, put it in, and it worked, didn't do anything else. :)19:01
naxxatoe|mbpScribbleJ: lucker19:01
naxxatoe|mbpmine doesnt bloody work -.-19:01
naxxatoe|mbpat lest not on de device itself19:01
ScribbleJIf I were in your shoesd.19:01
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ScribbleJI guess I would start... what?  dmesg?  You can't put in/out the card while the N900 is running so that's less helpful.  There's no fdisk, on the n900, is there?19:02
ScribbleJI dunno.  I'm going to go shower and let someone who isn't wildly speculating help. :P19:02
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GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, since when can't you hotswap it?19:03
naxxatoe|mbpdriver sd needs updating19:03
GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, the SIM is under the batt.19:03
ScribbleJI'm thinking of my SIM card.  I put them all in there once and forgot about it.19:03
naxxatoe|mbpin case that helps19:03
naxxatoe|mbpfrom dmesg19:04
ScribbleJSo maybe you pulli t out, put it in, see what output of dmesg says, just to get started?19:04
naxxatoe|mbpnothing -.-19:05
naxxatoe|mbpi see mmc0: card 0007 is removed19:06
naxxatoe|mbpwhen i put it bakc in19:06
GAN900naxxatoe|mbp, you didn't partition it with an Apple partition map did you?19:06
naxxatoe|mbpnope i didnt19:06
naxxatoe|mbppartitioned it on windows19:06
naxxatoe|mbpjust to be secure19:06
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uhsfadding <ip> <hostname> in /etc/hosts solved my problem. you could have told me just this instead of going through a huge dns/firewall discussion and i would've understand19:10
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ScribbleJIn retrospect, that's obviously a good solution, uhsf, I didn't think of it because typically using /etc/hosts for dns is a bad idea.19:15
LuciusMareas i heard of these law rambles involving nintendo emulators on n900... porting vba is not illegal, isn't it? has nobody done it before?19:15
ScribbleJBut for you it's a good choice since you're only connecting to your PC anyhow, who cares?19:15
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, no, it's not illegal.19:15
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, VGBA is available in Extras.19:15
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LuciusMarei didnt see it19:17
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* Stskeeps yawns19:19
uhsfi'm trying to set up synergy but synergyc on the n900 gives error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory19:20
th3_4zaradoLucretia lucretia19:20
th3_4zaradomy future girlfriend19:21
* VDVsx sends more drinks to Stskeeps :D19:21
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, defended?19:22
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ShadowJKapt-get install libxinerama, complain to whoever made synergy package for maemo19:22
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: and passed19:24
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, woo.19:24
uhsfShadowJK: i tried apt-get install libxinerama already.  Couldn't find package libxinerama19:24
Dassuhas somebody here ran mythtv on n900 ?19:24
uhsfShadowJK: there is no package it's just a binary19:25
angasuledoes the N900 support 16GB or 32GB on the external card?19:25
ScribbleJDassu, no need; mythtv does dlna/upnp, no?19:25
luke-jrlol, go figure I actually need to do some degree of implementing MMS for pay-work XD19:25
ScribbleJAlthough dlna is busted in pr1.119:26
threshis it?19:26
uhsfmythtv on the n900? what's the use without tv tuner?19:26
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DassuScribbleJ: hmm19:26
fralsssh: connect to host port 22: Connection refused19:26
DassuScribbleJ: I have never used those O_o can you give me an exmaple how they would work?19:26
luke-jruhsf: I imagine he means the client19:26
ScribbleJYes, no video.  Well, it freezes on the first frame.  There's a bug report in, says is fixed is 1.219:27
threshah, alrite. i think i've only listened to music.19:27
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Dassuuhsf: the video is of course streamed through the internet :D19:27
ScribbleJDassu, connect to lan, go to media player, find mythtb listed at bottom magically.19:27
Dassuuhsf: that's the beauty of hte mythtv. It only needs one machine for recording19:27
ScribbleJOver net, mythweb has flash streaming that might work.. have not tried.19:28
ScribbleJUsed to work great on my laptop though.19:28
threshVLC works fine as a streaming flv server too19:28
uhsfmythtv is so huge for the n900. mysql, qt, etc. when mplayer can do the same19:28
Dassueh... not gonna use VLC as I already have darwin that I used for streaming over 3G19:28
Dassubut mythtv on N900 is required for wlan use19:29
ScribbleJuhsf, he'd only put the clioent on, presumably.19:29
luke-jruhsf: clients require MySQL? Qt should be standard on any system.19:29
angasulewhy the limit to 16GB on the external microSD (if it's indeed correct)? or can I use a 32GB microSD?19:29
Caesiumdon't think they exist?19:29
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Dassuuhsf: it doesn't require mysql since that can ran on the server19:29
maromaderhi everyone19:29
Caesiumooh they do19:29
* Caesium will buy one and try it19:30
Dassuuhsf: only thing that is needed is ssh (for tunnels) and then the mythfrontend and qt also19:30
maromaderanyone here tried repartitioning their n900?19:30
Caesiumangasule: ah pre-order :(19:30
ShadowJKuhsf: well, apt-cache search reveals a libxinerama119:30
uhsfi still prefer mplayer. which can do the same19:30
maromaderI have problem with partition and device names19:30
Dassuuhsf: do the same? O_o19:30
threshlike, play files?19:31
threshevery player can do that, i suppose19:31
ShadowJKangasule: it's only tested with 16 becuse no 32g cards existed19:31
DassuI guess it can't really show program guide, list recordings and stream them with rewind support19:31
threshat least that's usually what they're meant for.19:31
Dassuand also the live tv19:31
maromaderwhen I do 'cat /proc/partitions', I get mmcblk0p1, mmcblk1p1, mmcblk1p2, mmcblk1p319:31
ShadowJKmaybe you'll be the first.19:31
DassuMythTV runs on N900 that's for sure. But I haven't manage to do that19:31
maromaderbut when I do 'ls /dev/mmc*', I get: mmcblk0p1, mmcblk0p2, mmcblk0p3, mmcblk1p119:31
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DassuMine segfaults at the startup19:32
ShadowJKmaromader: there's some crazy renaming going om :)19:32
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xorAxAxcehteh: dont you want to join #dwimd?19:32
ShadowJK/dev/mmcblk1p1 is probably microsd19:32
uhsfmplayer -tv will play any streams from my tuner card that has uhf antennas plugged in directly19:32
maromaderShadowJK, yeah, and I can't mount some partitions because of that19:32
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uhsfty ShadowJK i'm relearning debian everyday now19:33
maromaderI've reflashed with vanilla and pr1.1, still the same19:33
ShadowJKyes my device has it too19:34
maromaderhaven't touched the disk partitions yet19:34
maromaderwhen I check with sfdisk, partitions look ok19:34
LuciusMareaw. wiicontrol is not exactly what i wanted, i am more fammiliar with wminput actually - do you think it will take some code editing?19:34
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uhsfahah i got synergy working!19:34
DassuI guess. I dont need mythtv that much although  it would be really cool.19:35
maromaderShadowJK, in /etc/fstab for example, mmcblk0p2 is mounted as /home, and in 'mount' that's correct19:35
maromaderbut according to /proc/partitions mmcblk0p2 does not exist19:35
Dassuso I won't fix that problem :/19:35
uhsfmy cursor and keyboard is now going seemlessly back and forth from my pc, notebook, freerunner, and n900 now!19:35
angasuleI hadn't noticed the N900 has an IR transceiver19:36
ShadowJKI only quickly read through the init process, but I think fstab is mostly ignored19:36
DassuBtw, does the default  media player have a "search for tracks in a playlist" feature?19:37
maromaderok, I'll try repartitioning one more time using Ruskie's method and see what happens19:37
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uhsfthe only annoying thing is that synergy doesn't wake the n900 display19:38
uhsfso i still have to trigger the lock switch to see anything19:39
GeneralAntillesuhsf, set it to not turn off the backlight when connected to power?19:40
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uhsfDisplay stays lit when charging FTW!19:43
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SplasPoodDassu: if I'm not mistaken mythfrontend will require the mysql client libs since it makes a direct connection to the db, but I could be completely wrong...19:46
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maromaderok, I don't know what to do now. there is file /dev/mmcblk0p6, but in /proc/partitions there's mmcblk1p6. When I do 'mount /dev/mmcblk0p6 /mnt' I get: Invalid argument. when i do the same with mmcblk1p6, I get No such file or directory. any suggestions?19:55
maromaderMaybe I'll make symlink...19:55
maromaderno, I get 'Invalid argument'19:56
satmdhehe, symlink won't do19:56
satmdwhat is the output of ls -l /dev/mmcblk0p6?19:56
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maromaderbrw-rw----    1 root     floppy   179,  14 Feb  5 18:49 /dev/mmcblk0p619:56
satmdmmh, now if I remembered the mknod numbers for mmcblk...19:57
satmdbasically you need mknod b MAJOR MINOR /dev/mmcblk1p619:57
satmdbut I don't know MAJOR/MINOR19:57
maromaderMAKEDEV will help?19:58
satmdmight help yeah19:58
maromaderor any tips with udev?19:58
satmdcd /dev ; MAKEDEV mmc19:58
satmdudevadm trigger ... but I don't know yet if that exists19:58
maromaderNokia-N900-51-1:/dev# MAKEDEV mmc19:58
maromader.udevdb presence implies active udev.  Aborting MAKEDEV invocation.19:58
maromaderudevadm trigger shows nothing...19:59
satmdit never does ;)19:59
maromaderso, maybe I'll reboot and see what happens?20:00
satmdit will trigger creation of node files20:00
satmddid it create mmcblk1p6?20:00
satmdthen maybe reboot20:00
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maromaderhere goes nothing...20:00
maromaderyeah, I thought so. already changed fstab, and /usr is empty, so n900 won't boot. time for another reflash20:01
maromaderI'll try repartitioning on vanilla this time20:02
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satmdgood luck20:08
maromaderwell, after reflash with vanilla ssh was already installed... any way to completely wipe the n900 and have it as it came in the package?20:09
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maromaderand when I check without reflashing pr1.1, it still has bug with mmcblk0 in /proc/partitions = mmcblk1 in /dev/mmc*20:09
maromaderI have no idea why it worked the first time i tried repartitioning20:10
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maromaderbut I know how to beat this :>20:10
maromaderI'll remove the microsd and see what happens20:10
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woglindehello from brusel20:12
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maromaderoh, Poland here btw :-)20:12
woglindeI am from germany20:13
woglindebut I will attend fosdem20:13
villemvgermany, poland... this won't end well20:13
maromaderdon't worry, war ended long time ago ;)20:13
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satmdthe vanilla only flashes the emmc, you shall flash the firmware, too20:16
satmd(taken from the wiki)20:16
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maromaderyeah, i flashed with vanilla, then with pr1.120:16
maromadergive me a second20:17
satmdthen there shouldn't be sshd running20:17
satmdrandom guess I take... it is booting from another place?20:18
maromaderI'll know in a minutr20:18
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maromaderso, vanilla only flashes /home?20:19
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mgedminhey, according to powertop FBReader wakes up once per second!20:20
villemvbtw, anyone using scratchbox on Lucid?20:20
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mgedminbut I turned off its clock in the indicator line, which was supposed to fix that!20:20
villemvI have the vdso = 0 problem, as if it didn't work20:20
maromadermgedmin, it checks if you perhaps turned the clock on ;-)20:21
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mgedminanyway ~60% of time is spent in C3 state, only 30% in C420:21
maromadersatmd, good news, now I have only mmcblk0* everywhere, this should work out fine :)20:22
satmdmmcblk1 would be a sd card20:22
satmddunno what happened20:22
maromaderyeah, I know20:22
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maromaderany estimations on how many times I can make reflashes and repartitioning before drives wear out?20:24
woglindehalf year?20:25
villemvup until the warranty runs out20:25
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Kegetys10000-100000 times? If it is some ordinary flash20:25
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maromaderbtw, there were interesting effects when I repartitioned the first time without backing up /home/user - there were no flash or other plugins in microb, images from all the filesystem would show up in gallery, etc.20:27
maromaderlooks like system isn't self contained - when you clean /home/user, it won't re-initialize it with defaults20:27
* satmd wiped the .qf that way20:28
satmdunlucky me20:28
villemvtypically you would flash the mmc image for that20:29
villemvI wonder how publically available it is20:29
maromaderit's the vanilla image20:29
villemvah, so you got it already20:29
maromaderyou can grab it from the official images page20:30
villemvand it doesn't work for you?20:30
maromaderoh, it works now20:30
ShadowJKis google transliteration supposed to work in n900 browser?20:30
maromaderthere was problem with mismathed devices when I had microsd plugged in20:30
maromaderoriginal /home/user has almost 600 MB of data included, sheesh20:32
maromaderunless I accidentally made a synlink loop somewhere :)20:32
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siriusnovaso today i managed to do all my office work ok my N90020:35
siriusnovawithout my laptop20:35
maromadergratz :)20:35
siriusnovayeah i left my laptop at my hotel room by accident20:36
siriusnovai ended up using my N900 as my main computer20:36
maromaderI predict you will do that more often :)20:36
SpeedEvilA slightly better keyboard would be nice generally20:36
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* luke-jr decided last night that he won't get a handheld with under 4" display <.<20:36
siriusnovaif only the battery life would be better20:36
SpeedEvilother than that most stuff is workable if not great20:36
woglindeI tried kinetic dscrolling on my n81020:36
maromaderluke-jr, how big n900 is?20:37
scr4ve3.5 afaik20:37
maromadersiriusnova, try offline mode some time :)20:37
siriusnovathe N900 screams for being online20:37
scr4ve800x480 anyway20:37
siriusnovai dont get why Nokia includes such a gimpy battery20:38
maromaderluke-jr, you can always connect tv or projector ;)20:38
siriusnovafor a web tablet that screams online with skype, instant mesaging and email20:38
luke-jrmaromader: not really20:38
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luke-jrN900 = 3.5" 800x48020:38
luke-jrC760 = 4.1" 640x48020:39
mgedminluke-jr, get a zooming lens20:39
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luke-jrmgedmin: ...20:39
* mgedmin is reminded of the movie Brazil20:39
siriusnovawho is luke-jr20:41
siriusnovawrong irc20:41
siriusnovaanyway i heard someone was making an extended battery pack for the N90020:41
siriusnovamugen i believe20:41
villemvshouldn't that have fremantle too?20:42
villemvjust maemo-sdk bug it appears20:44
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maromaderanyone with massive amount of applications from all repositories?20:50
SpeedEvilI've only got around 3020:50
maromaderI'm interested in your du -sh /*20:51
maromadershow me directories with most used space20:51
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maromaderI think around 5MB for /etc20:52
maromaderhow much for /var?20:52
maromadershould it be on it's own partition?20:52
SpeedEvil /home/user/horseporn 8483843820:52
woglindehave tomy ntbooks updates are through20:52
SpeedEvil62.7M in /var20:52
woglindebu to th beern81020:52
SpeedEvilapt and cache stuff20:53
woglindeI have the way revent now on n81020:53
siriusnovagah /root 60MB20:54
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maromadersiriusnova, always something new, huh? :-)20:54
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SpeedEvilsiriusnova: odd.20:54
maromadersiriusnova, du -sh /root/*20:54
siriusnovawell i meant /20:54
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siriusnovaand im being deliberately cautious and cleaning up after apps20:55
woglindejoin #navit20:55
siriusnovaNokia deserves a kick in the gonads for designing a Linux based device with ~70MB free /20:55
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maromaderand as for repartitioning wthout microsd... mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p6 on /tmp/usr failed: Invalid argument20:56
maromaderW. T. F.20:56
Stskeepsit wasnt that bad an issue in os2008 though20:56
SpeedEvilIt's not quite simple.20:56
DocScrutinizer(<maromader> should it be on it's own partition?)20:56
villemvthe gonad kicking has proceeded for quite a while already20:56
infobothmm... optification is a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR20:56
SpeedEvilThere are good reasons for 256M /20:56
maromaderdockane_, I like FHS20:57
SpeedEvilYou can't partition a 256M root device20:57
maromaders dockane_ / DocScrutinizer20:57
SpeedEvilwell - you can - but only smaller20:57
PaulAnagramaHey, check out my new Toyota keyboaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa20:57
PaulAnagramawhat's the file where power button menu is defined?20:57
DocScrutinizermaromader: I think /var, /usr, /tmp etc should have own partitions20:57
maromaderDocScrutinizer, trying to do exaclty that20:57
maromaderwell, /tmp is by default in RAM, thank god20:58
siriusnovai dont see why in this day and age we need multiple partitions on a consumer device20:58
agihas anyone sync'ed his n900 using msynctool from his pc?? I keep getting a not-googleable "error while connecting: Not a start node"20:58
woglindewith 1 mb20:58
siriusnovaim not going to be swapping out chips with a new rootfs or /usr20:58
DocScrutinizerheh, can anybody tell me where to find powertop please?20:58
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woglindedoc sudo gainroot20:58
villagersiriusnova: because big flashdisks are slow, small flashdisks are fast, so they partition the core stuff on the small one20:58
mgedminDocScrutinizer someone uploaded it to t.m.o20:58
mgedmininfobot, powertop is
infobotokay, mgedmin20:59
infoboti guess powertop is
villagersiriusnova: that's at least the idea behind it... they still messed it up a bit, but anyway20:59
villemvno, I'm pretty sure it's
mgedmininfobot, powertop is can be downloaded from
infobot...but powertop is already something else...20:59
mgedminand also that didn't make grammatical sense21:00
woglindeis can be21:00
mgedmininfobot, powertop is available from
infobot...but powertop is already something else...21:00
maromaderohh, I found the bug, ha! :-)21:00
mgedminthis is where my bot-fu is insufficient21:00
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fluxinfobot, no, powertop is foo21:01
infobotokay, flux21:01
fluxinfobot, no, powertop is available from
infobotokay, flux21:01
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infoboti heard powertop is available from
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ShadowJKwhat, i need user account to use ovi store? :-(21:03
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maromaderShadikka, Nokia is still learning, give them a break :)21:04
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* ShadowJK was scrolling up looking for shadik... and then realized21:05
DocScrutinizerwhich genius suggested to *zip* it??? :-(21:05
onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: hallo21:05
DocScrutinizerhi onen|openBmap21:06
ShadowJKdocscrutinizer: So this is why someone would call it a cesspool21:06
adeuswell miniunzip is available :)21:06
* DocScrutinizer mumbles evil swearwords while figuring how to install friggin uzip21:07
adeusbut that's still better than the "advanced" packaging of emacs21:07
onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: sth came to my mind. I was thinking I could start porting my logger to maemo, using the sdk, even if I don't have the hardware. Do you think it sounds realistic (regarding sdk tools, python support, pythton-glib support, emulator(?) )21:07
DocScrutinizeronen|openBmap: well I think it should be feasible21:07
ShadowJKyour what?21:08
DocScrutinizerthough I dunno how much useful info you actually may gather from modem21:08
onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: ok, good. I will try to see what I can do :-)21:08
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: openbmap21:08
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onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: yes I know. but I wil lbe ready then for the day a real gsm api is available ;-)21:08
DocScrutinizeronen|openBmap: check out pnatd21:09
* ShadowJK suspects ofono is the best you'll get21:09
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onen|openBmapShadowJK: gsm + gps logging, in order to build a free to use database of measures. This can be used for computing the coverage of gsm cells, and then display them on a map, get your latitude/longitude position from gsm signal, etc.21:10
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onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: don't hold your breath though, time is scarce these days :-(21:10
mgedminis there a bug asking for a powertop deb?21:10
onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: but I will try to go ahead regularly21:10
infobotsomebody said powertop was available from
SpeedEvilI havealogger that logs cell info21:11
ShadowJKoh I wrote a CellID+signalstrength+gpslocation logger in python on S60 for fun once :)21:11
SpeedEvilhowever - I can't redistribute21:11
onen|openBmapSpeedEvil: ShadowJK: www.openbmap.org21:11
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DocScrutinizeronen|openBmap: you ever looked at ?21:12
SpeedEvilonen|openBmap: no - nokia survey app21:12
onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: skyhookwireless, IIRC data are not free21:12
onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: so what did you want to point me with them exactly?21:13
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DocScrutinizeronen|openBmap: just to look how it's done elsewhere. Maybe get some new ideas, or whatever21:13
onen|openBmapSpeedEvil: if you want to develop or port existing logging client, I will bring you all the support I can ;-)21:14
SpeedEvilonen|openBmap: naah - I have a binary 'log all system activity and report back to nokia' installed21:15
SpeedEvilI can;t redistribute this21:15
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onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: ah ok. sure. From time to time I look at others. But sometimes it also "orientates" your thinking, and you are stuck because you cannot legally copy the method.21:15
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: what's this crap???21:15
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maromaderok, the bug with mount /dev/mmcblk0p1: Invalid argument was in /etc/fstab - /dev/mmcblk0p1 was already configured there as /usr, and because it wasn't a remount or bind, system threw up an arror21:16
onen|openBmapShadowJK: same proposal to you, if you are interested in developping/porting a logging application for maemo...21:16
maromaderfix is to mount mmcblk0p6 before making changes in /etc/fstab21:16
ShadowJKI don't have the spare time unfortunately :(21:16
onen|openBmapDocScrutinizer: calm down, Doc, he meant report everything to google ;-)21:16
onen|openBmapShadowJK: I know too well this issue :-(21:17
SpeedEvilonen|openBmap: no - nokia21:17
onen|openBmapSpeedEvil: just joking21:17
onen|openBmapok guys I am off. bye21:17
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: it's a risk I accept - and have straced it - it doesn't seem to be doinbg anything too bad. And hte logs are cleartext.21:17
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: any way you could elaborate on this intriguing story?21:17
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mgedminsounds like he was given a debugging tool to debug some bug21:18
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: as on "why, where from, who, w*..."21:18
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I got an email to the address on my order. This invited me to participate in a program to do UI research. I install app, and after several weeks, get 50 quid voucher.21:18
mgedminah, research!21:19
woglindetime for beerevent now21:19
woglindetill later maybee21:19
maromaderSpeedEvil, if it bricks your phone beyond reflashing, will the give you new one?21:19
mgedminSpeedEvil, please use more xterm and vim, I want nokia UI designers to optimize for those use cases21:19
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DocScrutinizertime for weekend dinner event here21:19
mgedmine.g. the current VKB is just horrible for vim21:19
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maromaderanybody thinks alarm indicator should be located in other indicators area rather than near the clock?21:21
SplasPoodAhh the FOSDEM beer event?  I remember it well21:21
SplasPoodor rather, I remember bits and pieces of it, rest is a blur21:21
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: please type in many IP addresses21:22
ShadowJK(this thread of conversation is ludicrous)21:22
SpeedEvil - what it logs21:22
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Stskeeps#!/scratchbox/tools/bin/perl -w21:28
Stskeeps.. what scratchbox do to people21:28
maromaderwhat's scratchbox?21:29
maromadersome kind of chroot system?21:29
Stskeepssomething that keeps me awake at night21:29
moo-_-maromader: maemo development environment21:29
moo-_-chroot, yes21:29
moo-_-I think it supports x86 and qemu21:30
moo-_-but the other of those was not very well functional21:30
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alexj_Hello, there, of late the mouse mode on my n900 browser seems to have disappeared, when i swipe from left to right the whole page moves, any idea what might be wrong21:34
maromaderalexj_, installed any plugins?21:34
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alexj_user the meamo-geolocation21:34
alexj_nothing else21:34
maromaderalexj_, maybe try uninstalling it and see what happens?21:35
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alexj_ok sure21:35
alexj_will give it a try, thanks21:35
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mgedminalexj_, are you swiping in the right place?21:38
mgedminit only works near the bottom of the screen afaiu21:38
alexj_yeah i am swiping at the bottom21:39
alexj_even after uninstall it doesnt work21:39
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alexj_something is weird21:39
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alexj_when on 3G with no usage the battery brains very fast21:40
asj_reflash everything21:42
alexj_ok, planning to do that today21:42
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asj_do the emmc too21:42
tybolltreflashing now helps against batt drainage? :)21:42
asj_tybollt: when you have a runaway process and scewed up rc files sure it does21:43
tybolltrunaway procs21:44
alexj_asj_: really do i have to reflash emmc too21:44
alexj_which order ?21:44
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asj_alexj_: it's either that or drop to the command line and find out what's broken by using some good linux admin skills21:45
asj_alexj_: order shouldn't mater21:45
Matthew-HMMM any way of forwarding specific numbers?21:45
Matthew-or rejecting them ?21:46
alexj_i thought only my home directory contents are on the emmc21:46
alexj_aah my .profile files might be causing something for the battery drain21:47
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mgedminalexj_, have you looked with top whether there are any apps running?21:48
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alexj_yes i have and no apps are running21:48
mgedmine.g. the thumbnailer might have gone amok indexing everything under your home directory21:48
mgedmindid powertop give any hints?21:48
alexj_i even rebooted my phone21:48
alexj_ok i dont have powertop but rather i have htop21:48
SpeedEvilhtop is fine for finding active stuff21:49
Matthew-htop kills ur battery :D21:49
alexj_Matthew-: i just fired it up21:49
Matthew-alexj_: ah ok21:49
Matthew-alexj_: use console -> top21:49
infobotsomebody said powertop was available from
mgedminI just stared at htop's output and it said my n900 was idle21:50
alexj_weird, already starting using swap since memory is full21:50
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mgedminbut powertop told me FBReader did 1 wakeup per second21:50
alexj_and the phone is not running any app21:50
mgedminiirc the n900 starts using swap just after boot21:50
redeemanwell shortly after21:51
mgedminI was pleasantly surprised to find it working snappily with a few hundred megs of swap used21:51
mgedminwell, okay, a couple hundred21:51
redeemanbecause most of the swapped stuff is not the actively in use stuff21:51
redeemani never reach 200mb swap21:51
mgedminthen again if you open a big website and swap most of your core OS out, _then_ the n900 becomes very sluggish21:51
alexj_mgedmin: that figures21:52
mgedminkinda sucks when you open the camera lens cover and then have to wait 10 seconds for the app to start up21:52
maromaderanybody knows how to stop indexing files from /usr? after repartitioning all images and system sounds show up in image browser and media player, instead of the files from /home/user directory21:53
mgedminalthough maybe that was the adhoc wifi memory leak, which killed performance entirely21:53
mgedminlarge websites in normal use result in jaggy UI animations; I don't remember if I tried using camera in that situation21:54
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alexj_maromader: wondering if it uses so much resources indexing , i havent seen any good searching app for the n90021:54
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alexj_any suggestions21:54
mgedminmaromader, look for tracker's config file somewhere in ~/.local, IIRC21:54
maromaderalexj_, yeah, it uses about 33% cpu21:54
yuizywhich repository contains libqt4-maemo5?21:55
alexj_mgedmin: i like the option of sliding the lens protector to boot the app up , it was very fast21:55
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mgedmingood UI choice, that21:56
alexj_any app to read the tracker index ?21:56
maromadermgedmin, thanks for the tip, it's in ~/.config/tracker/21:56
maromaderbtw, you could change this value...21:57
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maromader# Minimizes memory use at the expense of indexing speed21:57
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maromaderok, when you do repartitioning it's good idea to killall trackerd, otherwise it freaks out. any other good services to kill at the time?22:08
SpeedEvilyou can fix trackerd22:09
SpeedEvilthrough its config file22:09
SpeedEvilif you don't want trackerd - you probably want to think about if you want to start the media player - as it pretty much relies on it22:09
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maromaderSpeedEvil, no, I mean only when you do repartitioning22:09
maromaderotherwise it's nice22:10
maromaderand yes, I think I have to fix the config file, otherwise it starts indexing /usr22:10
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maromaderso it will be a 3 stage process - making new partitions, formatting and copying /usr, fixing tracker config22:11
wazdnow we're rocking baby22:11
wazdlet the dual 9800GT kick ass begin!22:11
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satmdmh, the irc plugin to contacts and conversations is hardly useful22:16
satmdthere's no configurable ignore22:16
Myrttiany app that isn't specifically designed for IRC is mostly useless, IMO22:17
satmdsame for pidgin too in that regard22:18
anunakinneed patch pidgin msn chat room support22:18
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Damion2my wifi successfully picks up stuff ia dhcp but then doesn't allow any out bound connection.  tcpdump doesn't show my device even trying22:22
Damion2yet gprs0 works22:22
maromaderDamion2, check the power settings22:22
Damion2maromader: I'm next to the AP22:23
maromaderDamion2, Preferences -> Network connections -> Connections -> your wifi -> advanced -> other22:23
Damion2dhcp works22:23
maromaderno, power settings on your n90022:23
maromaderprobably your wifi card works on the lowest setting22:23
maromaderI had the same problem at the beginning :-)22:23
Damion2it worked up until now22:24
maromaderNokia should switch that to at least medium on the default install22:24
maromaderDamion2, check your power settings22:24
Damion2I suspect a reboot will fix it but I want to debug this22:24
Damion2it's on 100mw22:24
ShadowJKI don't know about debug, but ifconfig wlan0 down, and then rmmod and modprobe the driver (wl112x iirc?) sometimes fixed that issue for me22:25
maromaderand the bottom one?22:25
Damion2ShadowJK: ahha wl1* yeah hold on...22:25
ShadowJKI don't know how to debug it22:25
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Damion2that worked22:26
Damion2thanks.  1st time I've seen that22:27
ShadowJKhappens twice a month for me22:27
Damion2I was pissing around with adhoc yesterday22:28
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Damion2I installed a proxy and was trying to manually sort joikuspot features without anything fancy22:28
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Damion2it was 2am and I kept falling asleep and droppig the phone on my chest22:29
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infobotit has been said that powertop is available from
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DocScrutinizer51~powertop is also
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer5122:37
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newbie005anyone know what's the deal with unzip? It's still in testing or dev?22:45
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jophishAm I correct in thinking that if I put a mount into /etc/fstab it won't be mounted automatically?22:50
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luke-jrjophish: depends on how you enter it of course22:50
maromaderjophish, /etc/fstab is generated at boot time22:50
jophishsorry, in the /etc/events.d/rcS-late22:51
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maromaderluke-jr, cheer up, at least Nokia didn't go the Google way and make Maemo with Java only :-)22:52
luke-jrmaromader: ...22:53
maromaderok, let's test my repartitioning scripts one more time...22:53
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Stskeepsluke-jr: efika still messed up?22:55
luke-jrStskeeps: haven't checked this week yet :)22:55
luke-jrprobably tomorrow22:55
luke-jrStskeeps: N8x0 still messed up? :p22:56
luke-jrStskeeps: booted my Zaurus SL-C760 yesterday and noticed it was running 2.6.23 ;)22:57
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Stskeepsluke-jr: yeah, that's a bit sad22:57
ds3luke-jr: you are using the Angstrom rom?22:57
luke-jrds3: I had a custom-built OE image last time I flashed it22:58
RST38hArkenoi: looks like there may be a laser nanoprojector on the market soon22:58
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luke-jrwhich was quite some time ago22:58
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luke-jryeah, 2006 <.<22:59
ds3did the C760 have a hard drive?22:59
luke-jrds3: no22:59
luke-jrbut it did have a SD slot XD22:59
luke-jrCF slot was of course used for a Wifi card23:00
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luke-jrthough it doesn't seem to work anymore23:00
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ds3really wish they had an internal wireless method..even BT would be nice23:00
luke-jrI was thinking of combining it with a Nexus One or something, but then I realized A) 5 minute battery life still screws me up; B) Zaurus has no Bluetooth23:01
RST38h"Can You Trust Chinese Computer Equipment?" (C)Slashdot23:01
* RST38h laughs satanically23:01
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juhovhI believe the Chinese are asking themselves "Can You Trust American Computer Equipment?" at the same time :P23:05
luke-jrthere's American computer equipment? <.<23:06
Ken-Youngjuhar, And the answer for both is no.23:06
Ken-YoungOoops - sorry to bug juhar .23:06
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Matthew-Hey, is it possible to block a number from calling me and texting me?23:21
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Lumpio-The media player seems to die if you try to play an unsupported file format23:24
DangerMausnot good23:24
Lumpio-Die, as in, it says the format is unsupported and refuses to play any videos before a reboot23:24
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Z4lkneat, ill try that sometime23:26
DangerMaushavent seen that one23:26
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Lumpio-Now I wonder why this file would be unsupported in the first place, hm23:28
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Lumpio-Is h264 not supported?23:31
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maromaderoh, by the way, have you noticed the filesystem used in n900?23:34
Lumpio-Which one of them? :P23:34
maromaderany with ext3?23:35
luke-jrmaromader: hopefully not23:35
luke-jrext3 is not designed for such storage23:35
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Lumpio-.../home is ext323:36
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maromaderLumpio-, really?23:37
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Lumpio-/dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home type ext3 (rw,noatime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback)23:37
Lumpio-Says mount23:37
maromaderawww... one more reason for repartitioning :)23:38
LuciusMarehi, i installed the adblock plus, but it does not seem to work - when i mouseover a flash, no "block" appears, and it does not block anything23:38
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microlithmaromader: what do you plan on replacing the ext3 with?23:40
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maromaderext2 obviously23:40
microlithmm, wouldn't want to have anything important on there, especially if you lose power23:41
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maromadermicrolith, you have battery, I assume ACPI subsystem is working and Linux will shut down the system with critical power status, right?23:42
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maromadermicrolith, besides, you think ext3 is good for SSD drive?23:42
maromaderespecially one you cannot replace easily?23:42
ShadowJKi wouldn't call it ssd :)23:42
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ShadowJKI had one system running ext3 / rootfs... it ran 2 years, then the machine itself died, the SD card still lives :P23:43
ShadowJKthe swap will likely be more of a wear than ext3 anyway...23:44
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Lumpio-Ah, it would seem the video thing is h264 related too23:45
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wazd_n800I've forgot sli bridge at my country!23:53
wazd_n800epic fail23:54
wazd_n800Stskeeps, drank a beer for you recently :D23:56
woglindehe stskeep23:56
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wazd_n800that stupid bridge costs 2 bucks (( It's actually more expensive to go to the country to pick it :D23:58
microlithext3 will not kill a properly wear-levelled drive quickly. The journal incurs extra writes, but extra writes are better than data loss.23:58
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microliththe best solution would be something like LogFS or UBIFS, but eMMC makes those somewhat unnecessary23:59
Stskeepsext2 can really trash a sd fs, heh23:59

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