| timeless_mbp | i'd settle for its ui not sucking :) | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| timeless_mbp | of course, i don't intend to use it | 00:01 |
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| phreck | whaddap | 00:07 |
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| Arkenoi | garage still down? | 00:12 |
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| pupnik | !lart patent-lawyers | 00:13 |
| Jaffa | Arkenoi: NAFAIK | 00:14 |
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| woglinde | Arkenoi seems up | 00:15 |
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| woglinde | but slow | 00:15 |
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| wazd_n800 | Arkenoi, are you developing something already?) | 00:17 |
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| Arkenoi | not yet, but i think i will | 00:18 |
| thresh | anyone know how to fix that? aclocal: macro `gl_FUNC_ARGZ' required but not defined | 00:19 |
| thresh | trying to compile liboil | 00:19 |
| wazd_n800 | Arkenoi, cool) | 00:19 |
| wazd_n800 | Arkenoi, something useful?) | 00:19 |
| woglinde | thresh install GLES libs | 00:19 |
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| thresh | woglinde: i have libgles1-sgx-img-dev libgles2-sgx-img-dev and opengles-sgx-img-common-dev installed. | 00:21 |
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| phreck | anyone tested any of the n800 pentesting apps on the "900? | 00:21 |
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| jebba | hmm, in "sbox-MaemoKernel" chroot, the packages are foo as set up, there's no libncurses-dev, and you can't `fakeroot apt-get -f install`. It bombs with "dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege" even though run as fakeroot. Hmm. | 00:23 |
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| wazd_n800 | Arkenoi, well, if you'll need any help with UI - gimme a call :) | 00:26 |
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| thresh | wazd_n800: we need help with UI ;-) | 00:26 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ok, I tested 48x48 icons | 00:26 |
| wazd_n800 | thresh, mm? | 00:26 |
| thresh | wazd_n800: we as in 'vlc media player' | 00:27 |
| RST38h | wazd: they barely fit, with search-next/search-prev 32x32 | 00:27 |
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| wazd_n800 | thresh, hello there) | 00:27 |
| RST38h | wazd: fortunately, that is the only resolution I could find these icons inHildon, so all is good :) | 00:27 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if thresh is keen. | 00:27 | |
| woglinde | thresh???? | 00:27 |
| woglinde | thresh just compile the qt plugin | 00:28 |
| thresh | woglinde: imagine how would it look like on n900 screen | 00:28 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Do not, DO NOT install SB1. Install SB2. | 00:28 |
| wazd_n800 | thresh, well, I'm the right person to ask) | 00:28 |
| woglinde | thresh I didnt look what you did with your .ui file | 00:28 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Unless you want to partake in a sexual intercourse with NFS | 00:29 |
| woglinde | design a new one | 00:29 |
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| woglinde | thresh if you dont use .ui file at vlc yet switch to it | 00:29 |
| wazd_n800 | RST38h, you can fit 10 (8+1wide) icons by removing margins | 00:29 |
| wazd_n800 | RST38h, dunno if it's possible | 00:30 |
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| RST38h | wazd: not possible | 00:30 |
| RST38h | wazd: all I am doing is changing a few xml files for icons | 00:30 |
| RST38h | and even fbreader itself apparently just asks gtk+ to create a toolbar for it | 00:30 |
| wazd_n800 | RST38h, then remove that stupid rotate button and make proper accelerometer support)) | 00:31 |
| Arkenoi | which conditions trigger the famous wifi battery drain bug? i use wifi all the day and then take phone out of home without reboot for sure and never seen fast drain | 00:32 |
| wazd_n800 | so I guess I should make 32x32 icons | 00:32 |
| RST38h | wazd: I am kinda too lazy and busy for it | 00:32 |
| RST38h | wazd: Looking at how hildon icons work, I think you should just make an app icon and maybe the tree/book list icons | 00:33 |
| RST38h | because the toolbar is currently just fine | 00:33 |
| woglinde | thresh hm git vlc is on ui, so fire up qt-designer and make one suitable for n900 | 00:33 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: problems with power management on your router | 00:33 |
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| wazd_n800 | RST38h, oh, that's cool | 00:34 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h, they say it happens while the phone is disconnected from wifi | 00:34 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: says who? | 00:34 |
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| wazd_n800 | thrash: what exactly do you want to be helped with? | 00:35 |
| Arkenoi | many people both on tmo and fmr | 00:35 |
| woglinde | intressting that vlc still has a ui for opie in repos | 00:36 |
| thresh | woglinde: vlc doesnt use .ui for main window | 00:36 |
| Arkenoi | btw they recommend fixing network mode as GSM if you have no 3G coverage; seems that it does not improve battery life at all or the gain is too insignificant | 00:36 |
| woglinde | thresh why? | 00:36 |
| thresh | no idea, i'm not the one who wrote that plugin | 00:37 |
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| ppriyank | hi...i need help with my n900? | 00:37 |
| ppriyank | can anyone help me out....i was reffered here by www.maemo.org thread | 00:38 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, no you don't | 00:38 |
| ppriyank | i don't wat? | 00:38 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, need help :) | 00:38 |
| ppriyank | oh, lol, i did not mean to put that question mark at the end of it...I DO NEED HELP | 00:39 |
| woglinde | thresh hm only propblem can be with gl stuff for audio visualaization | 00:39 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, :) | 00:39 |
| ppriyank | i was going to return my n900 that i bought from nokia usa tomorrow | 00:39 |
| woglinde | but the qtgl widget should abstract this | 00:39 |
| ppriyank | so i wanted to delete everything from the phone...and i opened x-terminal and typed in rm -R $home/* | 00:39 |
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| ppriyank | and now my phone is screwed up, it does not turn on...just shows the NOKIA logo :( | 00:40 |
| ManuelSE | slow hand clap | 00:40 |
| Mika_i | heh | 00:40 |
| woglinde | ppriyank hm reflashing image should work | 00:40 |
| jkimball4 | is there a way to turn on logging/core dumps or some other form of information that would be useful for debugging? i'd like to try to debug these random turn offs | 00:40 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, reflash it? | 00:41 |
| ppriyank | now i read a wiki about flashing it with flasher | 00:41 |
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| mikhas | why? | 00:41 |
| mikhas | you return it anyway | 00:41 |
| ppriyank | but the command prompt does not recognize my device | 00:41 |
| ppriyank | i'm returning it because i bought it for 620 from nokia, but now i got my pre-order from newegg for 560, so i figured i'll return the nokia one, so i can keep the cheaper newegg one (nokia sales person said i have 14 days to return it) | 00:42 |
| luke-jr | so 2.6.32 does not boot at all :x | 00:42 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: :( | 00:42 |
| ppriyank | wazd_n800, i'm using windows 7 64-bit | 00:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: does 2.6.28? | 00:42 |
| SpeedEvil | or whatever the 'stock' version is? | 00:42 |
| ppriyank | any advice would be greatly helpful! | 00:42 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: uh, obviously the stock 2.6.21 works... | 00:43 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: but not Gentoo anymore | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I mean - if you recompile | 00:43 |
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| luke-jr | no clue, don't really care | 00:43 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 00:43 |
| Mika_i | ppriyank: 64 doesn't support flash program | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: To restate - have you ever had a kernel you compiled work I mean | 00:43 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: yes, though not with this cross-compiler now that you mention it | 00:43 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, sorry, I can only help you in theory, I don't have the device | 00:43 |
| RST38h | a'ok, now I am asleep for real | 00:44 |
| wazd_n800 | RST38h, cya | 00:44 |
| ppriyank | mika_i, so if i use my friends' computer...which is an XP...would i recognize my phone? | 00:44 |
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| ppriyank | or would i have to download the flash drivers on it? | 00:44 |
| RST38h | Ah, somebody built Hatari for N900. Cool. | 00:44 |
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| luke-jr | ppriyank: what does Flash have to do with it? | 00:44 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, you can install vm probably | 00:44 |
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| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, not sure if it will work | 00:45 |
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| ppriyank | what's "VM?" | 00:45 |
| luke-jr | fail | 00:45 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, virtual machine | 00:45 |
| ppriyank | luke-jr, i don't understand? i'm trying to flash my phone | 00:45 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: so what's the problem? | 00:46 |
| ppriyank | so i figured in order for the computer to recognize my phone, it probably needs a flash drivers | 00:46 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, VMWare, VirtualBox | 00:46 |
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| luke-jr | just run the stupid flasher app w/ the right args | 00:46 |
| luke-jr | no, it doesn't need any drivers to flash | 00:46 |
| Mika_i | use this http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Windows but as i said flash program doesnt work in 64bit system | 00:46 |
| ppriyank | what do i do with virtual box? (as u can tell i'm not all that good with computers) | 00:46 |
| w00t | the flasher doesn't work on windows 7 at all | 00:46 |
| w00t | let alone 64bit | 00:46 |
| luke-jr | Mika_i: it does if you download the 64-bit version | 00:47 |
| luke-jr | oh, windows | 00:47 |
| ppriyank | Mika_i, yes that's the wiki i was using | 00:47 |
| luke-jr | who uses Windows? | 00:47 |
| w00t | he does, and I do | 00:47 |
| w00t | (which is why I know this) | 00:47 |
| ppriyank | lol | 00:47 |
| ppriyank | luke-jr: there is a 64-bit available for flasher? | 00:47 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: for Linux, yes | 00:47 |
| ppriyank | oh, nvm | 00:48 |
| ppriyank | i've neva used linux before (seems too complicated, and yet I bought this device) | 00:48 |
| luke-jr | less complicated than Windows | 00:48 |
| luke-jr | Windows has got to be the most difficult OS to use | 00:48 |
| ppriyank | i'm lovin it dho, and it was workin perfectly fine, until my smart@$$ decided to rm -R $home/* | 00:48 |
| wazd_n800 | oh my, not again... | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: lol? | 00:49 |
| jkimball4 | if only it had zfs ... | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: why would you do that? | 00:49 |
| * Arkenoi wonders what's wrong with all that n900 users who complain about phone lasts no more than 7-9 hours standby *without* persistent internet connection. Are there just so many broken devices or..? | 00:49 | |
| wazd_n800 | luke-jr, cause it's SOOO easy in llinux :D | 00:50 |
| ppriyank | umm, that "lol" was referring to your question "who uses windows" | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | wazd_n800: yes? | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: nobody in my home uses Windows | 00:50 |
| ppriyank | luke-jr: i did "rm -R $home/*" because i was tryin to erase everything on my n900, in order to return it back to NOKIA US | 00:50 |
| wazd_n800 | luke-jr, much easier than in windows) | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: well if you're going to return it anyway, why bother? | 00:51 |
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| Jaffa | ppriyank: There's a "Clear device" in Settings' app menu; FWIW. | 00:51 |
| ppriyank | cuz i'm afraid they wont take it | 00:51 |
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| ppriyank | Jaffa: my phone does not turn on, when i power it on, it shows the NOKIA logo, and goes dark, it does not turn on though! :( | 00:51 |
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| Arkenoi | my gf does, she is an artist and she needs some software to paint (and she hates mac versions for some reason) | 00:51 |
| wazd_n800 | luke-jr, windows is so complicated that you can't even ruin your system with a single row)) | 00:52 |
| Jaffa | ppriyank: Reflash, incluing the eMMC image. It should fix the boot issue and also ensure all your data is gone. | 00:52 |
| luke-jr | wazd_n800: sure you can | 00:52 |
| Jaffa | wazd_n800: del /r c:\windows | 00:52 |
| wazd_n800 | Jaffa, it won't allow you | 00:53 |
| ppriyank | Jaffa: that's what i'm trying to do, but when i run the command prompt, it does not recognize my phone. (i downloaded the firmware, and am using the flasher 3.5) | 00:53 |
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| wazd_n800 | Jaffa, I've already tried in vm6 | 00:53 |
| ppriyank | Jaffa: this is the wiki i was following https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware | 00:53 |
| wazd_n800 | vm* | 00:53 |
| Jaffa | wazd_n800: Even as admin? With /f? | 00:53 |
| wazd_n800 | Jaffa, yep | 00:53 |
| ppriyank | apparently it seems like since i'm using windows 7 64-bit, that might be the problem. | 00:54 |
| wazd_n800 | Jaffa, files are in use | 00:54 |
| Jaffa | wazd_n800: On some machines removing boot.ini will render the machine unbootable | 00:54 |
| Jaffa | wazd_n800: Ha! A system so inept it can't delete a file which is open. Causes me no end of pain every day | 00:54 |
| Jaffa | (for a non-expert user, anyway) | 00:54 |
| ppriyank | apparently this guy had a same problem, and he even tried with xp with no results so far...i'm reading the thread right now... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34983&page=3 | 00:54 |
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| Jaffa | ppriyank: Boot an Ubuntu live CD and use the Linux flasher, perhaps? | 00:55 |
| wazd_n800 | Jaffa, well, at least it can't shoot itself)) | 00:55 |
| Jaffa | wazd_n800: Well, it can - there are files which aren't in use which are necessary for booting | 00:55 |
| ppriyank | Jaffa: I've neva used linux before, so if i do chose to go on that route...i'd have no idea what to do | 00:55 |
| Jaffa | But I'm not going to attack Windows; nor overly defend Linux; on such a pointless argument when I could be asleep ;-) | 00:56 |
| wazd_n800 | ok, let's stop that snseless flamewar) | 00:56 |
| Jaffa | ppriyank: Most of the instructions are on that wiki page. There are other threads on tmo from the N8x0 days which should help too. | 00:56 |
| wazd_n800 | Jaffa: yeah, me too) | 00:56 |
| ManuelSE | i poured acid in my n900 and now it is corroded | 00:56 |
| ManuelSE | i sending it back | 00:57 |
| * Jaffa poured coke over a Psion Series 5 once. Sticky keys. | 00:57 | |
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| wazd_n800 | Jaffa, howw dare you! | 00:57 |
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| ppriyank | Jaffa: i'm willing to give it a shot, now where exactly do i get the ubuntu live cd? and do i save it on my computer, or do i need a usb drive for it (i don't have one) | 00:57 |
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| wazd_n800 | Jaffa, you're a monster! :D | 00:57 |
| ManuelSE | phosphoric acid plus psion | 00:58 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, burn it | 00:58 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: you need a CD burner | 00:58 |
| ml-N900 | mmm, I loves me a real keyboard | 00:58 |
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| luke-jr | ppriyank: alternately, they will ship you a printed CD | 00:58 |
| ppriyank | thanks, will google it and burn it on a dvd (hopefully that'll work because i dont have cd-rws) | 00:59 |
| ManuelSE | where is synergy deb | 00:59 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu | 00:59 |
| ManuelSE | burn dao at slow speed | 00:59 |
| wazd_n800 | I wonder if there will ever be resurrected psion with e--ink display ) | 00:59 |
| nezb | request an ubuntu cd at https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ | 00:59 |
| luke-jr | nezb: you're missing the K | 00:59 |
| wazd_n800 | and, like, 1 year of work time from 2 AA batteries) | 01:00 |
| ppriyank | luke-jr: there are two of them there, kubuntu/ubuntu, does it matter which one i pick? | 01:00 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: get the K one | 01:00 |
| nezb | why Kubuntu? | 01:00 |
| luke-jr | it sucks les | 01:00 |
| nezb | if you want a good KDE distro try Mandriva Linux | 01:00 |
| wazd_n800 | oh noes | 01:00 |
| ppriyank | luke-jr: oh i thought this would be free :( | 01:01 |
| nezb | Ubuntu is better as a gnome distro | 01:01 |
| wazd_n800 | ppriyank, pick anything | 01:01 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: did you actually read the page? gratis download, buy a CD, or gratis CD | 01:01 |
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| xorAxAx | is there an rss feed or email feed on new packages? | 01:02 |
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| ppriyank | luke-jr: nvn, thankx, downloadin it on my desktop and will put it on a dvd after that. | 01:04 |
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| ppriyank | hopefully this'll work | 01:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if I've found asked this before - I can't seem to find it on the wiki. Is there a nice guide to debian/slackware/ubuntu/whatever in a chroot on the n900 | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | ppriyank: you are aware how to burn ISO files, correct | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | ? | 01:07 |
| ppriyank | luke-jr: yes...i have a free iso burner (to dvd) | 01:08 |
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| ppriyank | luke-jr: i guess i do not need to do this...just got off the phone with nokia, and they said if it hasn't been 14 days, i can return it to them :) | 01:09 |
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| luke-jr | ppriyank: k | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | my bootmenu is showing "TEST" in large green latters under "Press and hold MENU key for advanced boot menu" | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | just hanging | 01:15 |
| ppriyank | luke-jr: ok i just burnt the kubuntu on a dvd, i'm willing to try it, and flash it | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | do I really need to pull the battery to reboot it to normal? | 01:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: ssh in and reboot | 01:16 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: there's ssh at bootmenu? | 01:17 |
| b-man17 | http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fremantle/desmume-mario64.png :) | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: oh - opps, please ignore | 01:17 |
| jaem | b-man17, is that real? if so, nice work | 01:18 |
| b-man17 | yup - and thanks :) | 01:18 |
| jaem | :O | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | b-man17: now get it rotated and scaled <.< | 01:18 |
| jaem | how is it coming? | 01:18 |
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| * b-man17 is planing to optimize it to use OpenGL ES | 01:18 | |
| jaem | which emulator is that? | 01:19 |
| jaem | s/emulator/emul****/ | 01:19 |
| infobot | jaem meant: which emul**** is that? | 01:19 |
| jaem | :P | 01:19 |
| b-man17 | desmume | 01:19 |
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| jaem | ah, haven't heard of it | 01:19 |
| luke-jr | ... | 01:19 |
| jaem | luke-jr, kidding | 01:19 |
| jaem | it's called sarcasm | 01:19 |
| luke-jr | isn't desmume the *only* Linux DS emu? | 01:19 |
| b-man17 | it's a nintendo ds emulator | 01:19 |
| b-man17 | lol | 01:19 |
| jaem | b-man17, is it ported to the DS under Linux? | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | ...... | 01:20 |
| jaem | not that that would be in any way useful, but just wonderijng... | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | jaem: it'd be useful for ROMs... | 01:20 |
| b-man17 | what do you mean? xD | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | and multitasking | 01:20 |
| b-man17 | nvm xD | 01:20 |
| jaem | b-man17, well, you can run Linux on the DS, no? | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | b-man17: DS in Linux in DS | 01:20 |
| jaem | yep | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | can desmume run Linux? | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 01:21 |
| b-man17 | jeam: yes, dslinux | 01:21 |
| jaem | it's a "just because you can" sort of thing | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | then you can test it | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | >.> | 01:21 |
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| luke-jr | desmume on dslinux on desmume | 01:21 |
| b-man17 | i could | 01:21 |
| b-man17 | it's capable of running homebrew stuff | 01:22 |
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| jaem | which reminds me, I was at a concert, and at one point, everyone broke out their cellphones to start waving in the dark, and I just grinned and pulled out a dumbphone, N810, and N900 from under my coat | 01:22 |
| jaem | heh | 01:22 |
| jaem | Because I Can | 01:22 |
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| woglinde | jaem pfff | 01:22 |
| pupnik | javi[tab] : | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | just booted 2.6.30-rc8 cross-compiled | 01:24 |
| luke-jr | so cross-compiler is not at fault at least | 01:24 |
| pupnik | no good news on pulse audio yet? | 01:24 |
| pupnik | see 2:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1HldpVYbwI | 01:24 |
| luke-jr | screw pulse audio | 01:24 |
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| pupnik | how? :) | 01:24 |
| b-man17 | pupnik, btw what i'm running is 0.9.5, not 0.7.3 ;) | 01:25 |
| pupnik | b-man17: of what? | 01:25 |
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| b-man17 | desmume | 01:25 |
| pupnik | ah standard pc version? | 01:25 |
| b-man17 | i believe so | 01:26 |
| * pupnik guesses 8 fps | 01:26 | |
| b-man17 | mm - 16-20 :)))) | 01:26 |
| pupnik | close? | 01:26 |
| pupnik | nice | 01:26 |
| luke-jr | 16-20 = -4 | 01:26 |
| b-man17 | it will run faster once i get it to use OpenGLES ;) | 01:27 |
| luke-jr | wtf? | 01:27 |
| luke-jr | how do you get -4 fps? | 01:27 |
| b-man17 | no, 16 to 20 fps | 01:27 |
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| phreck | anyone tested any of the n800 pentesting apps on the n900? | 01:29 |
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| b-man17 | pupnic, btw http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fremantle/desmume-mario64.png if you haven't seen xD | 01:29 |
| b-man17 | *pupnik | 01:30 |
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| pupnik | ty cool stuff b-man17 | 01:30 |
| pupnik | do you remember what it gets on n800? | 01:31 |
| jaem | random question: does anyone know of any good diagrams/tables comparing FOSS licenses arranged by permissiveness? | 01:32 |
| jaem | a friend's looking for one, and I can think of anything off the top of my head | 01:32 |
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| b-man17 | pupnik: i'm not too sure, i haven't used it on an n800 | 01:36 |
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| pupnik | looking back i see 3-5 fps for desume back in spring 2008 | 01:37 |
| pupnik | on n8x0 | 01:37 |
| pupnik | you are using gp2x source b-man17 ? | 01:38 |
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| woglinde | he pupnik | 01:40 |
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| woglinde | pupnik sorry for qtnx and nx stuff little more work is need | 01:40 |
| woglinde | maybee I will make it over christmas holidays | 01:40 |
| b-man17 | pupnik: i used the source code straight from the desmume site | 01:40 |
| pupnik | what is unsatisfactory for you? | 01:40 |
| pupnik | ah ty b-man17 maybe they improved speed last year? | 01:41 |
| b-man17 | the transition from 0.8 to 0.9 is HUGE | 01:41 |
| b-man17 | even the code has changed | 01:42 |
| b-man17 | c > c++ | 01:42 |
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| b-man17 | and a re-written 3d rendering engine, witch could explain speed | 01:42 |
| woglinde | luke-jr whats the problem with pulse? | 01:42 |
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| jaem | woglinde, is that you who's working on qtnx? | 01:43 |
| jaem | on the N810 as well? | 01:43 |
| woglinde | jaem jupp | 01:43 |
| woglinde | was a contrator worked | 01:43 |
| luke-jr | woglinde: ALSA works fine | 01:43 |
| woglinde | but the contractor wanted it as opensource ;) | 01:43 |
| jaem | woglinde, woo | 01:44 |
| jaem | woglinde, any idea why the nxssh command called by the GUI (on the N810) truncates the domain? | 01:44 |
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| jaem | e.g. the connection process hangs because it's trying to connect to, say "foo.bar." instead of "foo.bar.com" | 01:44 |
| woglinde | jaem hm oh | 01:44 |
| woglinde | never saw this problem | 01:44 |
| jaem | I purged the config and forced a reinstall, and it kept doing it | 01:44 |
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| b-man17 | pupnik: i'd have to say 3 to 5x faster ;) | 01:45 |
| jaem | do you want me to duplicate it now and check anything for you? | 01:45 |
| woglinde | jaem its just the plain nxssh from no machine | 01:45 |
| jaem | rdesktop is nice for doing class work without going to the CS lab, but my friend and I use NX for our personal machines and servers | 01:45 |
| woglinde | the contractor needed the proxy-stuff | 01:45 |
| jaem | woglinde, yes, but it's the nxssh command line that's wrong, not the nxssh comand itself | 01:45 |
| woglinde | which normal ssh dont have | 01:45 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 01:45 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://computers-and-internet-blog.blogspot.com/2009/12/microb.html | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone figure out what that is? | 01:45 |
| woglinde | jaem hm okay than maybee a problem with libnxcl | 01:46 |
| jaem | qtnx is calling it with truncated command line arguments | 01:46 |
| woglinde | or qtnx it self | 01:46 |
| jaem | woglinde, I meant to take a poke at it, but I wasn't familiar with Qt then | 01:46 |
| woglinde | jaem thanks for reporting | 01:46 |
| jaem | woglinde, anything I can check for you? | 01:47 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: looks liek a review of MicroB | 01:47 |
| jaem | I would note that it happens with IP addresses and domains | 01:47 |
| woglinde | I will dive in it over christmas too | 01:47 |
| jaem | thanks! | 01:47 |
| woglinde | with ip too? | 01:47 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: with no mention of the n900? | 01:47 |
| jaem | yeah, give me a sec | 01:47 |
| woglinde | what the hell | 01:47 |
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| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: correct | 01:48 |
| jaem | woglinde, it didn't use to do that, but I had it uninstalled for a while, so I don't know if an update was released that broke it, or if it something else causing it somehow | 01:48 |
| timeless_mbp | and this makes sense? | 01:48 |
| jaem | let me just try it again now | 01:48 |
| woglinde | jaem hm pupnik didnt report this error | 01:48 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: dunno, send me a N900 and I'll see if it has MicroB | 01:49 |
| timeless_mbp | take my word for it? | 01:49 |
| jaem | woglinde, it's been happening for months now, but I kept forgetting to figure out who the maintainer was | 01:49 |
| AakashPatel | What was the quetsion? lol | 01:49 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: ;) | 01:49 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: I seem to recall some N900 reviews saying it had a new browser...? | 01:50 |
| timeless_mbp | microb2? :) | 01:50 |
| jaem | luke-jr, yeah, links :) | 01:50 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, counting microb versions is hard | 01:51 |
| timeless_mbp | microb3? :) | 01:51 |
| timeless_mbp | microb1 being gecko in process | 01:51 |
| timeless_mbp | microb2 being gecko out of process | 01:51 |
| luke-jr | which version is on Diablo? | 01:51 |
| timeless_mbp | microb3 being gecko with a new tile based painting api | 01:51 |
| luke-jr | that one sucks terribly | 01:51 |
| timeless_mbp | by this numbering, that'd be 2 | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 01:52 |
| timeless_mbp | (this isn't an official numbering) | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | speaking of which | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | I let it boot Diablo cuz Gentoo no longer works | 01:52 |
| woglinde | jaem /usr/share/doc/changelog.Debian.gz next time for maintainer | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | didn't do anything, just let it boot and run | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | for a few days | 01:52 |
| jaem | woglinde, yeah, stupidly forgot about that | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | ssh'd in, the -launcher thing was eating 100% CPU constant | 01:52 |
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| jaem | I'll be back shortly, and I'll test it out again | 01:52 |
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| pupnik | disabling sound gets 52-60 fps, enabling it, 24-44 | 01:55 |
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| woglinde | pupnik lol | 01:57 |
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| woglinde | good nite | 01:59 |
| moo__ | luke-jr: wait for fennec | 02:00 |
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| moo__ | it is already in beta | 02:00 |
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| pupnik | cu woglinde | 02:02 |
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| woglinde | jaem tomorrow | 02:02 |
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| saltsa_ | why maemo is based on deb-packages instead of rpm? :( | 02:03 |
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| kynky | i like rpm less than deb | 02:06 |
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| kynky | moo__, which version of fennec you use ? b5 isnt optified , im using the optified nightlies (b6) | 02:07 |
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| moo__ | kynky: not yet any version | 02:08 |
| moo__ | I have found microB sufficient for my needs | 02:08 |
| Lanti | has anyone got a cifs.ko that works on the n900 | 02:08 |
| Lanti | need to be able to mount my shares | 02:08 |
| kynky | filezilla for windows supports ssh shares (sftp) | 02:09 |
| saltsa_ | kynky, rpm just have some nice features, like package signatures, packages verify, rollback and so on | 02:09 |
| Lanti | kynky you talking to me? | 02:10 |
| moo__ | kynky: I have used winscp | 02:10 |
| kynky | Lanti, yep | 02:10 |
| saltsa_ | especially the signatures are nice feature... | 02:10 |
| Lanti | why? im on about smb shares | 02:10 |
| kynky | saltsa_, i use gentoo, nothing is comparable in package management :) | 02:11 |
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| jaem | kynky, you're right - Arch is better ;) | 02:19 |
| kynky | i used to use arch, its a nice binary distro | 02:20 |
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| kynky | prob best binary distro i used | 02:20 |
| kynky | but portage is amazing , far more complex than arch, for instance use flag dependencies and version dependencies | 02:22 |
| kynky | than pacman i mean | 02:22 |
| pupnik | b-man17: can you blit to opengl at native DS resolution and have clutter stretch that to screen? | 02:22 |
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| luke-jr | moo__: um, no. I don't use Maemo period :p | 02:34 |
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| jebba | he's just a troll in this channel. Who knows why he's here all the time if he doesn't even use it, but he blows his life here. | 02:41 |
| b-man17 | pupnik: i think i could | 02:41 |
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| jaem | kynky, I can appreciate that (from a safe distance :P), but I don't have a good enough primary machine to want to compile most things | 02:49 |
| jaem | the friend who got me into Arch described it as "Gentoo with the Gentoo", which suits me quite well | 02:50 |
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| jaem | I kind of wish I could run Arch on the N900, but that would be far too much work for the few geeks who would use it :P | 02:50 |
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| kynky | well there ppl trying to get gentoo working on n900 | 02:51 |
| jaem | kynky, ha... I heard they did that for the N810, too | 02:51 |
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| jaem | I suspect one of the issues (aside from the obvious unsuitability of a source-based distro on a phone), is all the proprietary bits that can't be distributed directly (and are only available in DEB format) | 02:52 |
| kynky | so arch should be possible, its biggest benefit is its kiss nature, so not much todo for basic install, compared to say other distros | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 02:52 |
| jaem | yeah | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | can someone try downloading a ~100M file from the browser? | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | It seemed to die shortly after I tried to do that. | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Claiming 'no memory' | 02:52 |
| kynky | jaem, you can use binaries in gentoo :) | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Currently having netowrk problems | 02:53 |
| jaem | well, along the lines of what I was just saying, one of thing nice things about Arch is that the AUR makes builds (usually) painless, and nicely circumvents anti-redistribution clauses by simple automagically repackaging the vendor's files to work in Arch | 02:53 |
| jaem | kynky, I've heard that, but is it done much? | 02:53 |
| jaem | and is it through Portage, or something else? | 02:53 |
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| jaem | sigh... HAM locked up when dismissing a application-modal dialog | 02:54 |
| kynky | jaem, for stuff without sources or huge packages , or for binhosts etc, sabayon is basically a custom version of gentoo and that a binary distro | 02:54 |
| kynky | yeah its through portage | 02:54 |
| jaem | which means that I can't exit it from within the app, and because of the dialog, I can't close it from the switcher | 02:54 |
| jaem | have to do it manually | 02:54 |
| kynky | aur is nice and simple | 02:55 |
| jaem | kynky, ah, yes - I tried Sabayon quite a while back, but I was then new to Linux, and I don't think Sabayan was terribly stable at that point | 02:55 |
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| jaem | kynky, yes, and since Arch's package format follows KISS as well (at some expense, yes, but I find DEB/RPM to be horribly pedantic), it's trivial enough to write and submit PKGBUILDs that I always do | 02:56 |
| kynky | jaem, completely agree | 02:56 |
| jaem | so once one person builds an app, everyone else can do it automagically | 02:56 |
| jaem | heck, if you don't bother about conforming to their (minimal) standards, you can properly package some random source tarball in a matter of minutes | 02:57 |
| jaem | installing sbox on arch is painful, though | 02:58 |
| kynky | arch is only trouble for me was lack of version specific apps, and when system things changed in testing, lots of things got broke until was recompiled/repackaged against new stuff | 02:58 |
| jaem | even in the necessary chroot | 02:58 |
| jaem | kynky, well, that's what you get when you run from [testing] :P | 02:58 |
| jaem | but yeah, if you don't read the news feed, you can sometimes get hit with some issues, as sometimes they have to make a break with major components | 02:58 |
| jaem | it annoys my friend a bit with his server, because when he first installed it, they didn't say "RTFNews" very clearly | 02:59 |
| jaem | but I'd rather that than have big changes done by a postinstall script | 02:59 |
| kynky | jaem, not really such an issue with gentoo though, any system stuff changes than just revdep-rebuild and rebuilds all reverse dependencies of the system stuff that had changed | 02:59 |
| jaem | it still bugs me that Ubuntu fires up and takes daemons on install without confirmation, but that's just a matter of philosophy | 03:00 |
| jaem | nice | 03:00 |
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| kynky | ubuntu is like the opposite of arch | 03:00 |
| kynky | both are good for the goals they set to achieve | 03:00 |
| jaem | yeah, and it's kind of odd that there was a huge rush of new Arch users who were ex-Ubuntu users a while back | 03:00 |
| jaem | yes, I agree | 03:00 |
| jaem | although sometimes I get frustrated with both, and wish I had the time and knowledge to spin my own mashup distro | 03:01 |
| kynky | and a lot of ex gentooers too :) | 03:01 |
| jaem | heh | 03:01 |
| jaem | I really like pacman because it's simple, and almost entirely self-contatined | 03:01 |
| jaem | apt is fine, except for the Evil that is dpkg-query | 03:02 |
| crashanddie_mbp | why would you want to create your own distro? | 03:02 |
| crashanddie_mbp | And how are you "frustrated" with either arch or ubuntu? | 03:02 |
| jaem | crashanddie_mbp, little things - not nearly enough to think about making my own seriously... | 03:02 |
| jaem | ...just that every distro has a strong philosophy, and none of them are exactly what I'd like in an ideal world | 03:02 |
| kynky | there are alot of distros to choose from :) | 03:03 |
| cpscotti | *lot* | 03:03 |
| cpscotti | (totally got it midway...... but yeah.. seems like that) | 03:03 |
| jaem | e.g. with Arch you get power, simplicity, and speed, but with some trade-offs, most of which are well worth it, but some of which are mildly annoying | 03:03 |
| ManuelSE | i hope you all know #mer | 03:04 |
| jaem | and with Ubuntu, you get the out-of-the-box experience, and ease of use, but at the expense of personal control | 03:04 |
| kynky | they rely on cli rather than gui for configuration ? | 03:04 |
| jaem | ManuelSE, yes | 03:04 |
| crashanddie_mbp | lol at speed | 03:04 |
| crashanddie_mbp | gentoo and arch have never been about speed, and anyone who thinks that is just wikipedia-fueled fanboy | 03:05 |
| jaem | crashanddie_mbp, well, Arch makes Ubuntu look fat, even though it really isn't | 03:05 |
| jaem | that's all I meant | 03:05 |
| kynky | arch install with x can be done in minutes from fresh, is i686 optimized for 32bit | 03:05 |
| jaem | I wasn't referring to "magic build flags" or anything - I just meant that it's a relative lightweight, even with a full desktop | 03:05 |
| kynky | gentoo is about choice | 03:05 |
| jaem | so I guess "speed" wasn't the best word | 03:06 |
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| jaem | although when your primary desktop is a dual-core Atom, it comes to about the same thing | 03:06 |
| jaem | kynky, for me it's mostly an issue of the trade-off between control and ease of use | 03:06 |
| jaem | I want to be *able* to mess with things if I care to, but there are some things I don't *want* to mess with if I don't have to | 03:07 |
| * AakashPatel wants updated haze | 03:07 | |
| jaem | Arch almost exactly hits the spot there | 03:07 |
| kynky | arch basically comes with nothing and you have to add what you want, ubuntu has lots and you have to uninstall what you dont want | 03:07 |
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| kynky | jaem, waht you want is exactly what arch tries to solve though | 03:07 |
| jaem | kynky, yes, and they do a good job | 03:08 |
| crashanddie_mbp | just get debian and be done with it | 03:08 |
| jaem | I wasn't criticizing them, just saying that nothing is perfect for everyone | 03:08 |
| jaem | crashanddie_mbp, lol | 03:08 |
| jaem | and Arch is the closest for me | 03:08 |
| jaem | I run Kubuntu on my other desktop right now | 03:09 |
| kynky | debian is also good they got one of the best, if not the best, linux arm distro | 03:09 |
| crashanddie_mbp | maemo is the best :P | 03:09 |
| jaem | I've never tried actual Debian - I meant to, but I never got around to it | 03:09 |
| kynky | i thought ubuntu + kde was better than kubuntu :) | 03:09 |
| jaem | crashanddie_mbp, maemo is awesome, but I just wish I could take Busybox out and shoot it :P | 03:09 |
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| jaem | kynky, well, if you install the metapackage, it comes to much the same thing | 03:10 |
| kynky | jaem, what would you replace busybox with ? | 03:10 |
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| Anpr | heya, guys :) | 03:10 |
| jaem | I never used to like Kubuntu, but this release is pretty solid, and they have plans in the works to make it much better | 03:10 |
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| jaem | kynky, full Unix utils. I know it's a space issue, for one thing, but once they get bootmenu working, that's less of an issue | 03:10 |
| kynky | jaem, i haerd ubuntu with kde was better than kubuntu, becuase kubuntu was a traversty, and needs much love, which it will soon be getting | 03:11 |
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| jaem | some of the crazier things I've tried to do on it and the N810 bailed because of grep not supporting a certain switch, or things like that | 03:11 |
| kynky | man busybox | 03:11 |
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| Anpr | guys who of you are not so bussy ? | 03:12 |
| kynky | obviously that only works as a search term on the browser though, not in xterm (by default) | 03:12 |
| jaem | kynky, with all due respect to the Kubuntu devs (and not blaming them), it did use to stink a bit, but as I said, it's gotten to the point where I can recommend it, and according to their blogs, they're addressing the remaining issues | 03:12 |
| jaem | kynky, yes, I know what busybox is and how to use it, but a lot of the tools are too slim for my liking | 03:12 |
| jaem | Anpr, go ahead :) | 03:12 |
| crashanddie_mbp | ubuntu has been in a recommendable state since v6 or something | 03:12 |
| jaem | crashanddie_mbp, I meant Kubuntu | 03:13 |
| jaem | Ubuntu's great | 03:13 |
| jaem | but Kubuntu needed some love for a while | 03:13 |
| crashanddie_mbp | kubuntu is crap, always has, always will be | 03:13 |
| crashanddie_mbp | probably because it uses KDE :P | 03:13 |
| kynky | lol | 03:13 |
| jaem | crashanddie_mbp, let's not get into that | 03:13 |
| jaem | lol | 03:13 |
| Anpr | jaem is it possible to run java sript on n900 ? | 03:13 |
| jaem | Anpr, javascript? | 03:13 |
| jaem | do you mean with a standalone interpreter, outside of the browser? | 03:14 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Anpr: yes, the browser supports javascript | 03:14 |
| jaem | like one would with QtScript, Windows Scripting engine, etc, or in the browser? | 03:14 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Anpr: if you're talking about Java (as in Sun's Java), then no, it is not supported | 03:14 |
| Anpr | crashanddie_mbp yeah i was talking about sun probably | 03:15 |
| kynky | as opposed to netscapes javascript or microsofts ecmascript or jscript | 03:15 |
| Anpr | i just have one game | 03:15 |
| Anpr | as i know it's based on java | 03:15 |
| crashanddie_mbp | just java then, not javascript | 03:15 |
| jaem | Anpr, what do you need Java for? | 03:15 |
| jaem | ah | 03:15 |
| Anpr | i tried to run it, but it says install java | 03:15 |
| jaem | yeah, that's a no-go, at least for now | 03:15 |
| jaem | sorry | 03:15 |
| jaem | wait, what? | 03:15 |
| jaem | how did you try to run it on the N900? | 03:15 |
| jaem | and what type of file is it? | 03:15 |
| Anpr | from the browser | 03:15 |
| kynky | applet ? | 03:15 |
| jaem | ahh | 03:15 |
| jaem | okay | 03:15 |
| Anpr | it's just a browser game | 03:16 |
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| jaem | yeah, sorry. There was a partially-functional JVM for Maemo 4, but I don't think anyone has one for Maemo 5 ata ll | 03:16 |
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| Anpr | i wonder will it be the thing, which devel | 03:17 |
| crashanddie_mbp | what? | 03:18 |
| *** Macer_ is now known as Macer | 03:18 | |
| Macer | omg. obama is in dollhouse! | 03:19 |
| Anpr | which could attract to developers? | 03:19 |
| jaem | if you mean support attracting them, I doubt it | 03:19 |
| jaem | IMO one of Maemo's advantages is that it supports other languages | 03:19 |
| jaem | but I can see the use-case for a browser plugin | 03:20 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Maemo's support of a multitude of languages is also its greatest weakness | 03:20 |
| Anpr | and one more question, just had different answers on the forum | 03:21 |
| jaem | Anpr, shoot | 03:21 |
| Anpr | does n900 support video conversations on skype ? | 03:21 |
| jaem | crashanddie_mbp, isn't that always the way of things :P | 03:21 |
| jaem | Anpr, not at the moment | 03:21 |
| kynky | not as far as know | 03:21 |
| jaem | that reminds me | 03:21 |
| crashanddie_mbp | that being said, Java would probably not be an ideal candidate -- It took Java 6 versions to become seriously fast on desktop and server environments, how long before it's fast on a tablet? | 03:21 |
| jaem | with the news of Skype open-sourcing their UI for Linux, I wonder if the method Nokia used to hook it into Telepathy is at all related | 03:22 |
| Anpr | but if there were some tries, as jaem said, on maemo 4 | 03:22 |
| kynky | crashanddie_mbp, depends , but java always been fast, swing was slow until 1.4/1.5 | 03:22 |
| jaem | I thought that was kind of the point... that you could use Skype communication in whatever way fit your platform | 03:22 |
| ShadowJK | replacement touch window assembly: 55€ | 03:22 |
| * jaem ponders | 03:23 | |
| crashanddie_mbp | kynky: are you on drugs? | 03:23 |
| Anpr | this game is on for maye 7 years, and it was possible to play it even with pentium 1 or 2 | 03:23 |
| crashanddie_mbp | kynky: java was dog slow in java 3 and 4 | 03:23 |
| Anpr | so i just wonder.. | 03:23 |
| kynky | crashanddie_mbp, you mean for gui ? | 03:23 |
| crashanddie_mbp | no | 03:23 |
| crashanddie_mbp | for everything! | 03:23 |
| moo__ | it was not slow, it was just resource hungry | 03:24 |
| moo__ | lots of memory, slow start up time | 03:24 |
| kynky | well it was used a lot in enterprise for network communications handling many thousands of requests and connections a second | 03:24 |
| kynky | lots of memory used, agreed | 03:24 |
| moo__ | kynky: the end user does not usually handle thousands of network communications :) | 03:24 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie_mbp, copycat. :P | 03:24 |
| kynky | i was just giving an example of why it wwasnt slow | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmmm. my first trac reply. couldn,t postpone any longer :-P | 03:25 |
| crashanddie_mbp | GAN900: ? | 03:25 |
| jaem | moo__, depends on your user :P | 03:25 |
| Anpr | any of you guys from UK ? | 03:25 |
| kynky | m | 03:25 |
| kynky | me | 03:25 |
| Anpr | have particular question connected with UK providers | 03:25 |
| crashanddie_mbp | kynky: considering 40% of my job over the last year was developing J2EE applications, you're not teaching me anything ;) | 03:25 |
| GAN900 | _mbp | 03:25 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Anpr: I'm based in London but am in california atm | 03:26 |
| kynky | crashanddie_mbp, thats what i do for 100% of my job :) | 03:26 |
| Anpr | kynky if you make skype call is it charges even if you have unlimited web ? | 03:26 |
| Anpr | charged* | 03:26 |
| crashanddie_mbp | kynky: so you're bored out of your ass? | 03:26 |
| kynky | anpr what provider you with ? | 03:26 |
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| jaem | kynky, depends on what your carrier means. Probably yes | 03:26 |
| kynky | crashanddie_mbp, i do alot of spring now | 03:26 |
| Anpr | i have heard some people saying that it is data transfer and they will charge u | 03:26 |
| Anpr | voda | 03:26 |
| GAN900 | It is data transfer. | 03:27 |
| jaem | if they say "unlimited on-device browsing", or something similar, then I have no idea how you got that plan | 03:27 |
| crashanddie_mbp | GAN900: had that in the nickname since I installed colloquy | 03:27 |
| crashanddie_mbp | GAN900: when at work IRC is firewalled, so I have to use webchat | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: Personally, I recommend t-mobile PAYG 6-month-internet booster | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: 30 quid gets you 60 month internet | 03:27 |
| jaem | Anpr, it does count, but normally carriers wouldn't allow you to get any sort of pseudo-unlimited plan for the N900 for the simple reason that they can't control what you do with it (which is a good trade-off, IMO) | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: 1G/mo use | 03:28 |
| kynky | voda dont officially support skype, they should block unless you get the max deal at an additional cost of 25pounds/month , the only uk carrier tto support skype properly (as in reasonable cost) is three mobile | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: 6 month | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | not 60 | 03:28 |
| jaem | kynky, tunnel it through ssh :P? | 03:28 |
| luke-jr | anyone here messed with the serial port? :x | 03:28 |
| jaem | that didn't work all that well on the N810 | 03:28 |
| Anpr | SpeedEvil, yeah but i bought my n900 with voda.. so i am kind of stuck on voda for 12months | 03:28 |
| jaem | luke-jr, on Maemo? yes | 03:28 |
| Anpr | so just wondered | 03:28 |
| Anpr | but i had like a better idea | 03:28 |
| luke-jr | I taped wires to it, but now my N810 won't boot at all | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 03:28 |
| jaem | luke-jr, what do you need? | 03:28 |
| Anpr | if voda charge u anyway | 03:28 |
| jaem | luke-jr, *facepalm* | 03:28 |
| Anpr | so for example if i got wifi connection | 03:28 |
| jaem | oh, *that* serial port | 03:28 |
| luke-jr | jaem: there's two? | 03:29 |
| kynky | Anpr, they wont charge, they will just block, they can only charge if you go over your 500mb/month limit | 03:29 |
| Anpr | and am making skype call through a wifi connection, so they cant charge me, can they ? | 03:29 |
| jaem | luke-jr, I thought you meant in software, not the actual hardware port | 03:29 |
| jaem | I've messed with rfcomm recently | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: no | 03:29 |
| moo__ | Anpr: they cannot | 03:29 |
| luke-jr | o | 03:29 |
| jaem | oh snap - right, I need to file a bug about that | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: as it's not going through their nets. | 03:29 |
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| kynky | Anpr, im ith vodafone now, but didnt get n900 on contract, i bought it halfprice from nokia store | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: they have not modified the n900 at all | 03:29 |
| kynky | if you go through wifi, voda wont know | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: so it's the completely stock software stack | 03:30 |
| Anpr | so it allows me to make free skype calls, i just have to make it through wifi? | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | or USB-net | 03:30 |
| luke-jr | Anpr: use SIP, not Skpye -.- | 03:30 |
| moo__ | Anpr: think it as a computer | 03:30 |
| kynky | Anpr, you can *try* to make then over 3g | 03:30 |
| Anpr | cheers, i got it now =] | 03:30 |
| jaem | Anpr, as I said, you own the N900, and they can't control what you do with it (at least in terms of the hardware and OS itself), so that means they won't give you any breaks | 03:30 |
| Anpr | but it seems to me unfair to block those kind of transfers | 03:31 |
| jaem | in fact, they might even be nastier in some cases | 03:31 |
| Anpr | it could be open, but still 500mb/month | 03:31 |
| moo__ | jaem: in France, they modify HTTP headeres | 03:31 |
| kynky | they say they block the sype ports (doesnt mean they do), you can go through a proxy or vpnto bypass it, set up a free vpn on your home computer, or pay a small fee to use one | 03:31 |
| jaem | Anpr, it's a cell carrier - they've lobbied the government to remove the word "fair" from the English language | 03:31 |
| jaem | moo__, blech | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Anpr: you also can use a new SIM with a different plan. I don't think voda has simlocked the N900 | 03:31 |
| jaem | moo__, VPN? | 03:31 |
| moo__ | Anpr: you can complain to some consumer advocacy in your country. I think all UK operators are evil bastards which should get bombed out of the business. | 03:32 |
| Anpr | DocScrutinizer nope they havent | 03:32 |
| jaem | oh wait, you can buy the N900 through the carrier unlocked? | 03:32 |
| Anpr | its sim free | 03:32 |
| jaem | huh | 03:32 |
| kynky | Anpr, in there eyes its completelyfair, their primary buisness is about sending telecommunications data , using their network | 03:32 |
| jaem | we don't have it in Canada, so I wasn't even aware the carriers were selling them | 03:32 |
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| kynky | all n900 are unlocked afaik | 03:32 |
| moo__ | kynky: if you buy data traffic then its your traffic - why carrier should know what you are doing with it the traffic | 03:33 |
| Anpr | moo__ true, but it just an unnecessary headache | 03:33 |
| jaem | moo__, agreed, but cell carriers are all about squeezing money out of you | 03:33 |
| crashanddie_mbp | is that an excuse? | 03:33 |
| Anpr | i feel sad.. i do not know many things about proxies and this kind of stuff.. was sleeping at my time... | 03:34 |
| moo__ | jaem: for example in Finland it is forbidden for the carrier to poke the traffic any way | 03:34 |
| jaem | moo__, and good for Finland | 03:34 |
| moo__ | otherwise they are messing with private communication | 03:34 |
| kynky | moo__, well the contract with vodafone expliticly excludes skype/sip on their free unlimited dataplan which has a 500mb limit /per month , they can legally do it, although morally i guess your arguing against it | 03:34 |
| Anpr | somebody suggested me trying SIP | 03:34 |
| Anpr | oh.. so they exclude and sip.. | 03:34 |
| moo__ | kynky: what's the legal basis? they mention in the contract "we can block any traffic we wish?" | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what??? 500MB/month? lol | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | moo__: pretty much | 03:35 |
| kynky | Anpr, they say they do, doesnt mean they enforce it, try it, if it works fine | 03:35 |
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| kynky | moo__, what SpeedEvil said | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: 'and any breach of these conditions means you pay at the stanard rate of 0.73p/MB' | 03:35 |
| Anpr | yeah, will have to | 03:35 |
| kynky | i read contract | 03:35 |
| kynky | Anpr, if it is bocked create a free vpn on your home omputer | 03:36 |
| kynky | they cant bloc the vpn | 03:36 |
| ShadowJK | lol, n900 cellmo antenna assembly costs half of what the battery cover costs | 03:36 |
| kynky | and use skype through that | 03:36 |
| Anpr | kynky *sad face* i wish i knew that's vpn... | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Is there a publically available store of parts? | 03:36 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, oh I just found it on one of the phone acessories sites | 03:36 |
| jaem | Anpr, "Virtual Private Network" | 03:37 |
| Anpr | hmm, i see now :) | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: linky? | 03:37 |
| kynky | vpn = virtual private network, essentially your phone logs into your compuer and your computer does the skype call, but its all invisible, its like you doing it from phone | 03:37 |
| jaem | the effect of connecting to a VPN is that your device appears to be on the LAN where the VPN server is running (e.g. your office or homw) | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: how much's the touchpanel ? | 03:37 |
| jaem | and it's encrypted | 03:37 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, 55€ | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmmm | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thanks | 03:37 |
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| jaem | so all the carrier will see is a bunch of encrypted data going out, and thus they can't tell what it is | 03:37 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 | 03:38 |
| jaem | and can't block it based on content | 03:38 |
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| ShadowJK | not much help outside of .fi I guess | 03:38 |
| kynky | if they did, you can do them for it :) | 03:38 |
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| jaem | Anpr, useful any time you're on an untrusted connection | 03:38 |
| Anpr | one day i will have to try it :) | 03:38 |
| jaem | all your traffic gets routed through a connection you do trust | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh no, it's encrypted, all the letters are jumbled :) | 03:39 |
| kynky | if you didd internet shopping, you would use the vpn | 03:39 |
| jaem | there are simpler ways to tunnel your traffic, although a VPN is the best for many cases | 03:39 |
| jaem | SpeedEvil, aslfsdhfsduofishnweoulnvosi uwe? | 03:39 |
| jaem | oh, sorry | 03:39 |
| jaem | ;) | 03:39 |
| jaem | I said, "is that so?" | 03:39 |
| jaem | it's a bit more than jumbled, technically | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | The stylus is 7 euro! | 03:39 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 03:40 | |
| kynky | three mobile payg do 2gb/month for 5pounds with no restriction on skype/sip btw | 03:40 |
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| * jaem sighs | 03:40 | |
| jaem | one more exam | 03:40 |
| jaem | no textbook | 03:40 |
| cpscotti | 7€ the stylus!! I knew it! lol! | 03:40 |
| jaem | which means I'll be studying from wikipedia | 03:40 |
| jaem | woo | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wtf?? 7bucks for that plastic ttothpick | 03:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | kynky: t-mobile is awesome ATM - if you can live with 1G/mo - 6 months for 20 quid | 03:40 |
| * kynky note to self - edit wikipedia | 03:41 | |
| Anpr | cool | 03:41 |
| jaem | why they offer a course with a textbook that half the class can't afford, and that isn't available in a library in the whole darn province, I really don't know | 03:41 |
| Anpr | i like this t-mobile plan | 03:41 |
| jaem | not to mention the prof doesn't even have a copy | 03:41 |
| jaem | kynky, aw, then I'll have to download it again | 03:41 |
| cpscotti | That website totally proves how technology doesn't relate AT all to the product! | 03:41 |
| cpscotti | *price | 03:42 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, tmobile uk is good for the fact if you go over data limit, they dont charge you, like every1 else does, but they block skype/sip unless you get the expensive package , well contract says that | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | more | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | like that | 03:42 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: seriously? Link | 03:42 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: the plan I'm on has no detailed TOS oddly | 03:42 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, it takes ages ofdrilling down to gt tos | 03:42 |
| kynky | i went through , orange/o2/tmobile/vodafone | 03:43 |
| luke-jr | ToS have no legal force anyhow | 03:43 |
| luke-jr | unless they make you read it before getting service | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/payg/boosters/ | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | click 'internet boosters' | 03:43 |
| kynky | after my vodafone contract runs out in march will prob get three mobile, if not then orange | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | type of service?? o.O | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | 6-month internet Plus Booster | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Terms Of Service | 03:44 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: oh, UK only? :( | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: oops - sorry | 03:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I thought you were in the UK for some reason | 03:45 |
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| kynky | contract details will be same as for normal payg internet stuff | 03:45 |
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| Anpr | kynky so in your point of view there is just "3" who does not block skype/sip ? | 03:45 |
| kynky | Anpr, for normal internet data plans three are the only ones who publicly say they dont block, the others say they do, but doesnt mean they actually do | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | declaring it's not allowed doesn't mean the block | 03:47 |
| kynky | DocScrutinizer, exactly | 03:47 |
| jaem | Anpr, isn't 3 the carrier that was proxying images through a GIF converter so they could claim their internet was faster? | 03:47 |
| jaem | or was that someone else? | 03:47 |
| Anpr | jaem no idea actually | 03:48 |
| SpeedEvil | jaem: voda was doing something like that | 03:48 |
| jaem | hmm... whoever it was, that's evil | 03:48 |
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| Anpr | 5 quid for 2gb/mo | 03:48 |
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| kynky | anpr yep | 03:48 |
| Anpr | it's not so bad, actually | 03:48 |
| jaem | the example I saw showed a low-palette comic strip side-by-side comparison, and even for an image like that the compression was disgusting | 03:48 |
| Anpr | if it's free and open to make skype calls, fair enough for me | 03:49 |
| kynky | but if you go over limit, its expensive | 03:49 |
| kynky | but same for every1 else except tmobile | 03:49 |
| jaem | Anpr, may I ask why you need to make Skype calls over 3G? Do you need to make lots of long-distance/international calls on the go? | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jaem: afaik you always can disable that | 03:49 |
| Anpr | but it is payg, isn't it ? so if you do not have any balance i think they can not charge you, you just should won't be able to use connection | 03:49 |
| jaem | if not, I don't see why you can't use wifi | 03:49 |
| Anpr | or am i wrong ? | 03:49 |
| kynky | Anpr, think so | 03:50 |
| jaem | Anpr, I think you're right, but pay-as-you-go data is probably a rip-off | 03:50 |
| jaem | hmm | 03:50 |
| Anpr | jaem i can, ofcause | 03:50 |
| kynky | 2gb/month on payg for 5pounds is cheap, its cheaper than any contract deal | 03:50 |
| kynky | if not show me cheaper in uk | 03:51 |
| jaem | Anpr, just wondering, because I can't see Skype local minutes over a data connection being cheaper than air time | 03:51 |
| jaem | maybe I'm wrong | 03:51 |
| ShadowJK | I think one of the UK carriers have different APNs for internet, one that modifies content and makes it smaller and one that doesn't | 03:51 |
| Anpr | i just wonder how does it feel e.g walk in the city and talk through skype | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jaem: I got payg 5GB for 25€ | 03:51 |
| * ShadowJK doesn't remember which one | 03:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | De | 03:51 |
| kynky | skype to skype is free | 03:51 |
| jaem | Anpr, yeah, looking at the dialer for the first time and seeing a "call from" button was a bit of a Wow moment for me | 03:52 |
| jaem | it looks seamless, and that's how I like it | 03:52 |
| jaem | is there any way you can disable 3G data completely while still using the N900 as a phone? | 03:52 |
| kynky | google voice seems nice | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jaem: alas that button's missing when calling a contact | 03:52 |
| kynky | jaem, yep | 03:53 |
| jaem | DocScrutinizer, how are you initiating the call? | 03:53 |
| jaem | kynky, how? | 03:53 |
| Anpr | i'll have to go 3 shop | 03:53 |
| Anpr | and ask them | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jaem: hit the number in contacts? | 03:53 |
| jaem | it may be a moot point given that I can't actually afford one any time soon, but my student budget won't cover cell data, and I wouldn't want to get overages | 03:53 |
| kynky | click on connections and disconnect 3g, and make sure in settings it not automatically connect via 3g | 03:53 |
| jaem | DocScrutinizer, oh, yeah, but in the contacts you can just hit the SkypeOut button instead | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bah | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | skype | 03:54 |
| Anpr | jaem i am about skype to skype | 03:54 |
| Anpr | they are free :) | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'm talking bout SIP | 03:54 |
| jaem | kynky, ah, okay. That should work, although I was kind of hoping there was method that couldn't accidentally turned on | 03:54 |
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| jaem | Anpr, I see, that makes sense | 03:55 |
| microlith | hmm | 03:55 |
| kynky | well you only need to disconnect 3g if it already connected | 03:55 |
| microlith | device was fine up until 10 minutes ago, rebooted twice since :/ | 03:55 |
| jaem | personally, I wish Rogers had a data option in between the legacy 3MB plan and the current 500MB plan | 03:55 |
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| Anpr | so the best way, if i can't get connected to wifi | 03:55 |
| jaem | because I can't afford to use the N900 as an internet tablet, but having just a bit of data for SSH would be killer for me | 03:56 |
| Anpr | is get a three payg | 03:56 |
| Anpr | as i can see, for now.. | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | microlith: filled / ? | 03:56 |
| jaem | but 3MB is obviously far too small, and 500MB is more than I need, or can afford | 03:56 |
| * jaem will be back later | 03:56 | |
| microlith | DocScrutinizer51: 66.7MB free | 03:57 |
| kynky | Anpr, well assuming vodafone def doesnot work with skype (you wil have to try) | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | microlith: *after* reboot yeah | 03:58 |
| microlith | does something empty it on reboot? | 03:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | microlith: reboot freeing up amazing amounts of / | 03:58 |
| microlith | what's using it? | 03:58 |
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| kynky | yep it does | 03:58 |
| microlith | logs? | 03:58 |
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| kynky | logs are in ram | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | microlith: nobody found out yet. ask SpeedEvil | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: any comments? | 04:00 |
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| Klowner | should be gettin' my second n900 tomorrow, unless fedex acts like drunken hobos again | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Klowner: gettin greedy? ;-P | 04:11 |
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| b-man17 | ~stab Klowner | 04:13 |
| * infobot runs at Klowner with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. | 04:13 | |
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| GAN900 | Klowner, hey, same here! | 04:20 |
| GAN900 | Though from DHL | 04:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | darn. guys what,s wrong with you? do you need a device for each hand? XD | 04:22 |
| GAN900 | Loaner + DDP | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aah | 04:23 |
| jaem | DocScrutinizer, yes, don't you? | 04:23 |
| jaem | dual-wielding Linux power | 04:23 |
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| jaem | heh | 04:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | nah, I'm fine with a zoo of different devices ;-P | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and don't get me started or I'll activate my army of freerunners XD | 04:26 |
| b-man17 | lol | 04:26 |
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| * Klowner slowlys bleeds to death from the papercut | 04:32 | |
| luke-jr | I want an AR headset that "materializes" handhelds on demand | 04:32 |
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| Klowner | fingers crossed this second one has a functional microphone | 04:32 |
| luke-jr | including full 21" displays <.< | 04:32 |
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| Klowner | handhelds and wimminfolk | 04:33 |
| AakashPatel | wtf | 04:33 |
| AakashPatel | when i plug my phone into my Samsung TV | 04:34 |
| AakashPatel | its black and white | 04:34 |
| AakashPatel | and doesnt stretch across the screen | 04:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | AakashPatel: adjust pal/ntsc setting | 04:35 |
| AakashPatel | I did | 04:35 |
| AakashPatel | its on NTSC | 04:35 |
| AakashPatel | and im in the US | 04:35 |
| AakashPatel | soo... | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 04:36 |
| Klowner | sure it's a composite port? | 04:36 |
| AakashPatel | And i *think* this tv is NTSC (havent ever plugged anything into the av ports | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | never twice same color | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep. works great here on PAL | 04:36 |
| AakashPatel | http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/tv-video/televisions/led-tv/UN55B8500XFXZA/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=features | 04:37 |
| AakashPatel | erm feck | 04:37 |
| AakashPatel | wrong window | 04:37 |
| Klowner | AakashPatel: you're not plugging it into component video plugs or anything? | 04:37 |
| AakashPatel | hm lemme check again | 04:37 |
| Klowner | the plug should likely be yellow | 04:37 |
| Klowner | I think.. | 04:38 |
| AakashPatel | lolwtf | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MUHAHA | 04:38 |
| AakashPatel | all the ports that look like the right ports | 04:38 |
| AakashPatel | say COMPONENT | 04:38 |
| AakashPatel | Composite (AV) | 04:39 |
| AakashPatel | 1 (back shared with component) | 04:39 |
| AakashPatel | Oh | 04:39 |
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| AakashPatel | wtf? | 04:39 |
| AakashPatel | shared with component, yeah i used that one | 04:39 |
| Klowner | eeh? | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | set up TV correctly | 04:39 |
| AakashPatel | OH | 04:39 |
| Klowner | should be Composite | 04:39 |
| AakashPatel | I think when i selected input i did component | 04:39 |
| AakashPatel | lemme try now haha | 04:40 |
| Klowner | yellow=video, red=right audio, white=left audio | 04:40 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 04:41 |
| AakashPatel | yeah it worked | 04:41 |
| AakashPatel | Klowner: on my tv the component and composite are the same ports | 04:41 |
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| AakashPatel | i selected Component intstead of AV last time by accident | 04:42 |
| Klowner | ohHhhhh | 04:43 |
| AakashPatel | Samsung ftw :| | 04:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | don't ask abbout LG's extraordinarily firmware | 04:44 |
| AakashPatel | But i do have to say, this tv is the best picture evar | 04:44 |
| AakashPatel | Even cnet says :0 | 04:44 |
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| AakashPatel | DocScrutinizer51: haha | 04:44 |
| AakashPatel | whats the normal contrast ratio on HDTV's? | 04:45 |
| AakashPatel | 150000:1 o.O | 04:46 |
| GAN900 | Contrast ratio is a meaningless number. | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | who cares? as long as the picture is goodlookin | 04:46 |
| AakashPatel | oh man | 04:46 |
| GAN900 | Pure marketing. | 04:46 |
| AakashPatel | no really | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | GAN900: exactly | 04:46 |
| AakashPatel | this tv says 7MIllion:1 | 04:46 |
| AakashPatel | The blacks are truely solid black | 04:47 |
| ifreq | led tv's are great. need to buy one @future too | 04:47 |
| AakashPatel | the led backlights turn off | 04:47 |
| GAN900 | There's nothing governing how the contrast ratio is measured. | 04:47 |
| GAN900 | Often it's dynamic. | 04:47 |
| ifreq | yeh contrast ratio is one value you dont read from tv tech specs *g* | 04:47 |
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| AakashPatel | eh, all i can tell you is this is truly the blackest black you can have ;) | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | inter picture contrast. one with backlit off. MUHAHA | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | only thing that counts is dynamic intrapict contrast | 04:48 |
| AakashPatel | shh and just get that LED TV i accidently posted | 04:48 |
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| AakashPatel | thats intrapictasthtk for ya | 04:49 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 04:49 |
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| ifreq | mayb when prices drop down a bit. or not the 55" version. | 04:51 |
| ifreq | does any else manufacturer than samsung do led tv's yet? | 04:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | there's lots of them. white LED side backlight. white full area backlight. RGB both flavours. full araea with dynamic controlled brightness in sub sections | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | wtf | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | Is anybody elese phone complaining about ovi not logging in | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | its getting annoying | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | the warning lol | 04:54 |
| oilinki | is it possible to sync n810/n900 data with ovi nowdays? | 04:55 |
| AakashPatel | NETWERK ERRAR | 04:56 |
| AakashPatel | okay maemo, i know there is one, thanks for warning me 10 times | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | eeeek the gremlins | 04:57 |
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| AakashPatel | Hm whats the point of having the Ovi Account in the accounts thing? | 04:58 |
| AakashPatel | I dont think there is one :| | 04:58 |
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| * AakashPatel deletes it | 04:59 | |
| AakashPatel | ooo nice "enable" checkbox | 04:59 |
| * AakashPatel unmarks it | 04:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ooooh. no more sharing pics on ovishare | 05:00 |
| ifreq | hmm is ovi account useful to have? | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not really (yet) _ mho | 05:00 |
| ifreq | k | 05:01 |
| ifreq | then i wont waste time on register | 05:01 |
| ifreq | :) | 05:01 |
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| AakashPatel | yeah lol dont do it yet | 05:02 |
| AakashPatel | Someone get a date from nokia on when the ovi store is gonna be live | 05:03 |
| AakashPatel | I cant submit this 50 dolla rebate till then D: | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | actually I did but can't see a particular attractivity in it | 05:03 |
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| AakashPatel | huh? | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (register with ovi) | 05:04 |
| AakashPatel | oh | 05:04 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, xchat on desktop (fedora) does far less wakeups than xchat on n900 :/ | 05:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: wakeups? | 05:36 |
| AakashPatel | ShadowJK: Xchat on the n900 blows | 05:36 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | AakashPatel: ??? | 05:36 |
| AakashPatel | Integration | 05:36 |
| AakashPatel | it could be way better | 05:37 |
| AakashPatel | and if you save a setting it always crashes lol | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | known issue | 05:37 |
| AakashPatel | I wish it would blink the light if you got pinged | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | edit ~/.xchat2/* | 05:37 |
| ShadowJK | instead of doing select/poll and waiting for something to happen, it's calling it with a small timeout, looping | 05:38 |
| jebba | finally hacked up a way to include a custom kernel config in debian/ dir and have it propigate... The debian/rules file in the kernel isn't set up for a patches/ directory or anything... | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: what's a 'wakeup'? | 05:38 |
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| jebba | ShadowJK: same versions on f12 and n900 fwiw | 05:39 |
| jebba | it's saying "go do something and stop sleeping you lazy cpu" | 05:39 |
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| ShadowJK | doc: when app goes from sleep to run | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm it's probably sending pings or sth. Or polls user states | 05:41 |
| ShadowJK | lagmeter and away tracking switched off | 05:41 |
| ShadowJK | those wouldn't need multiple wakeups per second anyway | 05:41 |
| ShadowJK | and on fedora I have lagmeter on, and it's not doing the periodical wakeup | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what? multiple per second? wtf? | 05:42 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 05:42 |
| jebba | ShadowJK: i just looked at F12 patches and i dont really see anything that would have to do with wakeups, so i dont think the difference is in xchat itself (?). It did have a patchlet for the config file though, so maybe that would keep it from crashing (just a guess there) | 05:43 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba: source patch? | 05:44 |
| ShadowJK | 12 per sec | 05:44 |
| jebba | ya, source patch | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what's it tackling? | 05:44 |
| ShadowJK | wanna look at how much fremantle xchat is patched? | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | another u/l case issue? ;-P | 05:45 |
| jebba | http://pastebin.ca/1713964 DocScrutinizer51 patch | 05:45 |
| pwnguin | huh. the media player supports upnp? | 05:45 |
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| KahnAu | o/ | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | YES | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | I DID IT | 05:46 |
| redeeman | ? | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | I booted Maemo on my N810 with the battery connected only via paperclips held in place by gravity | 05:46 |
| jaem | >_< | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | hopefully now I can get at that serial port | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 05:46 |
| jaem | this will not end well | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | lol | 05:46 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 05:47 |
| luke-jr | ARGH | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | make that past tense | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | :( | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba: looks sensible. Also I noticed a few non printable chars in default cxchat.cfg | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | Wifi died, so I lifted it to peek... and a paperclip shifted :( | 05:48 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 05:48 |
| KahnAu | any aussies floating around? | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | how the heck do other people use the serial header thing? :/ | 05:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | nobody does :-P | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | meh | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | excpt fab | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | fab? | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and they have a jigmount | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: any recommendations on how to debug Linux boot then? | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | factory | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | can kernel messages get sent over USB or something? :/ | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dunno | 05:51 |
| KahnAu | doubt it | 05:52 |
| ShadowJK | there's a netconsole thing, but it's not much use if kernel dies before userspace | 05:52 |
| ifreq | syslog | 05:53 |
| ifreq | hmm truu | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe a professionell version of paperclips would help a lot ;-P | 05:54 |
| ShadowJK | need more ducttaoe | 05:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah. and hotglue | 05:56 |
| Macer | so. anybody get android running on the n900 yet? | 05:56 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 coughs | 05:57 | |
| KahnAu | http://www.bu3sch.de/joomla/index.php/nokia-n810-serial-console | 05:57 |
| KahnAu | looks kinda handy :P | 05:57 |
| AakashPatel | is there open office or maemo? | 05:59 |
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| Macer | lol | 05:59 |
| Macer | of course there isn't going ot be openoffice. :P | 05:59 |
| AakashPatel | Why not :P | 05:59 |
| Macer | it's too much of a java memory whore | 06:00 |
| AakashPatel | hah | 06:00 |
| AakashPatel | Abiword | 06:00 |
| AakashPatel | where is taht | 06:00 |
| * AakashPatel wants | 06:00 | |
| Sho_ | AakashPatel: There's an office viewer app from Nokia based on KOffice. | 06:00 |
| Macer | the question should be "is there anything that can use odts" | 06:00 |
| Macer | :) | 06:00 |
| Termana | lies. openoffice works without java | 06:00 |
| Macer | Termana: well. last i saw it required java. never saw a ver with native bins unless they decided to take that route | 06:00 |
| Macer | Termana: either way it is a mem whore | 06:00 |
| Macer | :) | 06:00 |
| derf | If they can get OOo on OLPC, they can get it on the N900. | 06:01 |
| jaem | "I would not otherwise even know where to begin to hack that thing. I’m not the geek around here I mainly just hurt people." | 06:01 |
| Macer | one lap per child? | 06:01 |
| jaem | O_o | 06:01 |
| Termana | Macer - i agree its a memory whore however ubuntu doesn't come with java by default but it does come with openoffice | 06:01 |
| jaem | ^ comment on Hack a Day | 06:01 |
| Macer | Termana: hm. | 06:01 |
| Macer | Termana: i always figured ubuntu came with blackdown or something | 06:01 |
| AakashPatel | Sho_: i want to edit ;) | 06:02 |
| Sho_ | AakashPatel: That's probably coming, too | 06:03 |
| AakashPatel | So is a 20GHz phone | 06:03 |
| Sho_ | Nokia is working together with the KOffice team. | 06:03 |
| AakashPatel | >.< | 06:03 |
| AakashPatel | Sho_: What's it called? | 06:03 |
| AakashPatel | That Docs to Go shit? | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | just use HTML, n00bs | 06:04 |
| AakashPatel | Thats proprietary o.O | 06:04 |
| luke-jr | ....... | 06:04 |
| AakashPatel | o | 06:04 |
| AakashPatel | No* | 06:04 |
| AakashPatel | luke-jr: docs to go | 06:04 |
| Sho_ | Documents to Go is by DataViz, that's something else | 06:04 |
| AakashPatel | :P | 06:04 |
| Sho_ | Seems right now it's just called "Office Viewer" | 06:04 |
| AakashPatel | in the extras repo | 06:05 |
| Termana | Macer - you could be right, however in my default install i couldn't use java applets, but that might not be implemented in icedtea or blackdown | 06:05 |
| AakashPatel | ?* | 06:05 |
| Sho_ | not sure, sorry (I don't have a device yet myself) | 06:05 |
| AakashPatel | Ah | 06:05 |
| AakashPatel | Well, im out for the night | 06:05 |
| AakashPatel | Sho_: thanks for the info | 06:05 |
| AakashPatel | night all | 06:06 |
| Sho_ | you're welcome, sleep tight | 06:06 |
| AakashPatel | Sho_: oh and btw its not in extras ;) | 06:06 |
| Termana | good night AakashPatel | 06:06 |
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| Macer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org#Use_of_Java | 06:08 |
| Macer | Termana: i'm just saying. sun "owns" openoffice | 06:08 |
| Macer | :) | 06:08 |
| Macer | they still try to promote java | 06:08 |
| Macer | although as a cross platform universal development tool.. i think it has failed | 06:09 |
| Macer | but don't quote me on that :) | 06:09 |
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| Termana | either way its probably not great for our devices. which is i guess why everyone is waiting for koffice | 06:10 |
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| jebba | cool 0xFFFF free software flasher has new code in it for n900 :)= | 06:11 |
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| luke-jr | Macer: Sun no longer exists | 06:18 |
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| Termana | luke-jr: Sun and Oracle haven't merged yet have they? | 06:23 |
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| luke-jr | Termana: no? wasn't that announced months ago? | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | if not a year by now | 06:26 |
| jebba | Termana: is troll /ignor | 06:27 |
| Termana | yeah earlier this year, but i thought there was some trouble with the merger | 06:27 |
| Termana | jebba: how am i a troll? :P | 06:27 |
| jebba | Termana: haha not you, luke-jr sry ;) | 06:27 |
| jebba | allllllllllllll the time | 06:27 |
| Termana | oh ok :P lol | 06:28 |
| luke-jr | jebba: if anyone is trolling right now, it's you | 06:28 |
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| jebba | on another note, the garage buildserver is up and running again :) | 06:29 |
| jaem | where'd the find a new 770 to host it on? | 06:31 |
| jaem | s/the/they/ | 06:31 |
| infobot | jaem meant: where'd they find a new 770 to host it on? | 06:31 |
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| jebba | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/claws-mail_3.7.3-1maemo2/summary.log built claws in around 20-25 minutes each, so not so bad | 06:31 |
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| Vratha | luke-jr: that wasn't announced anywhere near a year ago. i think you're thinking more like 5 mos. maybe | 06:34 |
| Vratha | Termana: yeah, the EU didn't approve the merger | 06:35 |
| Vratha | don't know what happened after that | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | why would the EU need to approve anything? O.o | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | are either Sun or Oracle actually in the EU at all? | 06:35 |
| Vratha | because if you're an international company and plan to do business in a very large area of your clientele, you need to obey local regulations | 06:35 |
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| pwnguin | random question: audio/x-ms-wma support? | 06:38 |
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| Macer | luke-jr: was oracle allowed to purchase? | 06:52 |
| Macer | heh. sun will always exist :) just how linksys still does with a cisco stamp on it to make it look like their crappy made in china wifi routers are of higher quality | 06:52 |
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| Termana | racist | 06:54 |
| Termana | :P | 06:54 |
| * KahnAu hugs his linksys/cisco gear | 06:55 | |
| KahnAu | i've only had one device actually fail in hardware | 06:55 |
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| Termana | KahnAu, its against the rules to talk below the belt | 06:56 |
| Termana | :P | 06:57 |
| KahnAu | lol | 07:03 |
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| pwnguin | http://gist.github.com/255790 | 07:09 |
| pwnguin | ^ any suggestions for improvement? | 07:09 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 stares at bait. yawns | 07:11 | |
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| pwnguin | i cant seem to get banshee to recognize the files it copied; not sure to blame HAL, banshee or the phone | 07:12 |
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| jebba | ahhahahhah. I have the kernel booting up and displaying the standard kernel loading foo on the console on boot :) | 07:14 |
| nezb | how? | 07:14 |
| jebba | FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y | 07:14 |
| nezb | nvram? | 07:14 |
| jebba | rebuilt kernel.debs | 07:14 |
| ShadowJK | n900? | 07:15 |
| nezb | meh, I don't feel like compiling anything right now it's 12am | 07:15 |
| jebba | Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28-jebba4 #1 PREEMPT Sun Dec 13 22:33:13 MST 2009 armv7l unknown | 07:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba: you never sleep? | 07:15 |
| jebba | hahha | 07:15 |
| ShadowJK | Ah | 07:15 |
| jebba | i'll put them in my repo in a minute. | 07:15 |
| jebba | fuck ya. | 07:15 |
| jebba | http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/dists/unstable/main/binary-armel/ | 07:18 |
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| ifreq | wasnt there fb_update_mode in past maemo devices instead of recompiling whole kernel for fb? | 07:22 |
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| pwnguin | voice_mode:Viking | 07:26 |
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| nezb | *sigh* | 07:26 |
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| nezb | anyone want google wave invites? | 07:30 |
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| pwnguin | where all does canola look for playlists? | 07:32 |
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| jebba | ifreq: no idea about past | 07:35 |
| pwnguin | actually, lets start with something more basic: what's the name of the media player that comes with the n900? | 07:37 |
| nezb | Media Player | 07:37 |
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| nezb | ;p | 07:37 |
| jebba | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Installing_my_custom_kernel | 07:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hehe' so now *that* is what 8 expect from xchat on relogin :-)) | 07:41 |
| jebba | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Installing_my_custom_kernel :) | 07:41 |
| nezb | what does your custom kernel do>? | 07:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | load -e <fqn-of-scriptie> really is a useful thing | 07:42 |
| ifreq | nezb: installs backdoor ofcoors | 07:43 |
| ifreq | for worldwide 1st n900 botnet | 07:43 |
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| nezb | I mean besides the rootkit | 07:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | too late ;-P | 07:43 |
| ifreq | :D | 07:43 |
| nezb | is the botnet code open source? | 07:43 |
| ifreq | nezb: ofcourse | 07:43 |
| ifreq | nezb: jebbas kernel enables framebuffer | 07:44 |
| nezb | that's it? | 07:44 |
| ifreq | FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y | 07:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | bluepill is hidden in the closed blobs of maemo | 07:45 |
| nezb | isn't Blue Pill mode a good thing? | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nezb: no source, sorry ;-P | 07:46 |
| nezb | damn proprietary botnets... I need an open source one before I donate | 07:46 |
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| jebba | nezb: ifreq, source code all there too. ;) not too much different... | 07:49 |
| jebba | nezb: ya, pretty much just it for now. But i had to get a whole procedure down for modifying the .config and getting it to build a proper .deb etc. | 07:50 |
| jebba | now that that's done, it's easy to enable/disable whatever or make modules for people or whatever... | 07:50 |
| nezb | that's good. was it difficult? | 07:50 |
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| jebba | yes, PITA, cuz the rules that come with it don't have any patching stuff in it. Like you can't just put in debian/patches/ and have it go, for instance. I also had to ramp myself up on making .debs, cuz i've only made a few before. This is quite clean though. :) I'll write up more how it was all done. Plus the different kernel scratchbox (with now ncurses-dev etc) makes it a bit of a headache. | 07:52 |
| jebba | But now it's easy. In the end i only had to change a few lines ;) | 07:52 |
| nezb | that's nice | 07:52 |
| jebba | i have a script so i can just copy over any .config, run the script, have new kernel .debs. Done. | 07:53 |
| jebba | probably going to try 2.6.32-omap1 tomorrow. | 07:53 |
| jebba | is quite cool to see the fone boot too ;) | 07:54 |
| nezb | does it say anything cool? | 07:54 |
| nezb | like "Starting secret Nokia spy utility.... [done]"? | 07:54 |
| jebba | hah. havent even paid much attention yet! to what it says. will check it out some more. | 07:55 |
| Vratha | when connecting your n900 to your Mac and going into "PC Suite Mode", do you find it generally tries to create new network interfaces? | 07:56 |
| nezb | yes | 07:56 |
| Vratha | i don't understand why it doesn't just reuse one it already used | 07:56 |
| nezb | every freaking time | 07:56 |
| nezb | I think its a mac os x problem? | 07:56 |
| Vratha | nezb: okay, i'm glad i'm not the only one experiencing that frustration | 07:56 |
| Vratha | nezb: could be | 07:56 |
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| Vratha | i was hoping someone here knew how to either tell the mac to reuse an old interface or how to configure the n900 to use an existing interface | 07:57 |
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| jebba | so in the builder if you submit a package that is a dep of your next package, how long does it take before it knows that first dep is there? | 07:59 |
| Vratha | jebba: it just has to search the dpkg database to know | 07:59 |
| Vratha | so however long that takes, which isn't too long | 07:59 |
| jebba | ok. for some reason it showed my flatzebra_0.1.3-2, being built, but then built the other one first. | 08:00 |
| jebba | perhaps they were on different boxes and the second one just got put on a faster box. | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | probably an issue with arandomly generated MAC address | 08:01 |
| jebba | how do I trigger it again, just uplaod the .dsc again? Vratha | 08:01 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: yes, check the mac address of the new interface matches the mac of the old one | 08:01 |
| nezb | the MAC addy is different each time? | 08:02 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 seems to remeber same issue for freerunner cdc_ether | 08:02 | |
| nezb | it doesn't happen with the modem iface, only the usbnet iface | 08:02 |
| nezb | afaict | 08:02 |
| ali1234 | you can specify the mac to be used in a module param (n900 side) and if maemo isn't doing that it should be | 08:03 |
| ali1234 | the modem interface doesn't have a mac | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ali1234: exactly | 08:03 |
| nezb | well that explains the situation | 08:03 |
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| ali1234 | exactly what? | 08:03 |
| * jebba just uploading the whole thing again since dep is there. | 08:04 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | if no addr specified it will guess a unique one | 08:04 |
| Vratha | ali1234: oh, good info. do you know which module that would be? | 08:04 |
| jebba | so should i upload my kernel to extras-devel? hhaha | 08:04 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: g_ether | 08:04 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: and it has *two* macs, one for the n900 and one given to whatever you connect it to | 08:04 |
| Vratha | ali1234: thanks; i'll try doing some googlign on it | 08:05 |
| ali1234 | DocScrutinizer51: serial ports (cdc_acm) don't have mac addresses | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ali1234: ack | 08:06 |
| ali1234 | what it could be is they use the n900 mac for the local side of g_ether and the remote side then gets a random mac | 08:06 |
| jebba | so how long after they are built before they are live in extras-devel repo itself? ready for apt-gettedness? | 08:06 |
| jebba | hmm, actually the dependency built and is there in https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/flatzebra_0.1.3-2/results/ but the next program i uploaded didn't install it for a dep. So there's some lag somewhere. | 08:08 |
| RST38h | reMoo | 08:09 |
| johnsu01 | anyone know offhand if there is a way to make the toolbar at the bottom of the fremantle xterm disappear? | 08:09 |
| johnsu01 | it's covering up one of my nethack status lines :) | 08:10 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: ok had a look, it uses g_nokia not g_ether (presumably so it can do serial and eth at the same time) and the dev_addr and host_addr params are null | 08:11 |
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| ali1234 | which means if it is based on g_ether it will pick random addresses, although it doesn't actually seem to do that on a simple unplug/replug | 08:11 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: Around? | 08:12 |
| ali1234 | but that could be because the module isn't getting unloaded | 08:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnsu01: seems that's the only thing that needs to stay. Ther's obviously no way you would get it back once it vanished | 08:12 |
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| johnsu01 | DocScrutinizer51: personally I don't need it back :) | 08:13 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: if i switch to mass storage and back i do indeed get a new random mac | 08:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ali1234: what I said | 08:15 |
| jaem | what would be the best category to file a low-level rfcomm (BlueZ) bug in? | 08:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnsu01: you never need ESC? or switching fullscreen mode? | 08:16 |
| jaem | specifically, it's relating to the serial connection dropping during read | 08:16 |
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| Vratha | ali1234: yeah, i had figured out it was g_nokia on some web page. i still haven't found a config file or the params i can send to the module though | 08:17 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: in /etc/modprobe.d make a file called "g_nokia" with contents "options host_addr=<some mac address>" | 08:17 |
| johnsu01 | DocScrutinizer51: well, not for many uses of a terminal. If I need those things I can...open a new terminal. | 08:17 |
| johnsu01 | but really I'm just asking if there is a keyboard toggle for it | 08:18 |
| johnsu01 | because I would often like to have that space for display | 08:18 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: (testing that now) | 08:18 |
| Vratha | ali1234: thanks. i'll test it out. | 08:18 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: should be: options g_nokia host_addr=00:11:22:33:44:55 | 08:19 |
| ali1234 | it *might* be possible to use reuse the wifi mac for this purpose - there's certainly a lot of other linux devices that do that. but it might not sit well with fremantle | 08:19 |
| Vratha | ali1234: how did you know it supports host_addr? just by looking in a kernel config one time or something? | 08:19 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: in /sys/modules/g_nokia/parameter | 08:20 |
| ali1234 | s | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnsu01: actually you can't (except via cmdline or tricky fingeracrobatics). your dashboard icon vanished when you set fullscreen mode. and to end fullscreen you miss the icon in the toolbar | 08:20 |
| Vratha | whoa... that must be new since the last time i seriously used linux since my move to OS X | 08:20 |
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| johnsu01 | DocScrutinizer51: I understand, I'm asking if there is a keyboard shortcut to toggle it | 08:21 |
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| Vratha | wow, sweet. i didn't realize a /sys directory was even mounted | 08:21 |
| Vratha | freaking nice | 08:21 |
| ali1234 | Vratha: if you think that's cool look at the usb debug interface in /sys/kernel/debug - you can see all usb traffic, and wireshark has a gui. very useful when combined with virtualbox for reversing windows usb drivers | 08:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnsu01: ther's no such things like shortcuts in a shell | 08:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | except the shell defined ones | 08:22 |
| johnsu01 | DocScrutinizer51: it's not a shell shortcut, it would be a window manager shortcut... | 08:22 |
| johnsu01 | or the xterm's shortcut | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nonexist | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | see ctrl-c for copy | 08:22 |
| johnsu01 | why are you acting like this is crazy? urxvt, gnome-terminal, etc, all have keyboard shortcuts | 08:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | shell takes full control over console input | 08:23 |
| Vratha | ali1234: i might check that out some day i'm screwing around with something on usb that doesn't work :) | 08:23 |
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| RST38h | Ah, here! | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnsu01: actually xterm could intercept I guess | 08:26 |
| RST38h | tekojo: Good morning! Can you catch someone who has control over extras-devel and ask him to figure out why the new fbreader package is not there yet? =) | 08:26 |
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| tekojo | RST38h I can take a look X-Fade will be here at some point, he will know | 08:27 |
| RST38h | [2009-12-13 23:18:31] fbreader 0.10.7-4 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository | 08:27 |
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| RST38h | This is the last I have got from the autobuilder | 08:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnsu01: anyway shell *expects* to get all unfiltered keypress events | 08:27 |
| RST38h | Whole log here: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/fbreader_0.10.7-4/summary.log | 08:27 |
| jaem | ali1234 (re usb snooping), any links to info about that off the top of your head (don't bother Googling it - I can do that) | 08:27 |
| ali1234 | jaem: what exactly are you trying to do? | 08:28 |
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| ali1234 | jaem: not related to snooping exactly but a very good guide to how usb works is: http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.htm | 08:29 |
| jaem | nothing in particular now, but I'd been vaguely curious about how that worked | 08:29 |
| jaem | (comp. eng student, you see) | 08:29 |
| jaem | awesome, thanks! | 08:29 |
| ali1234 | if you read that ^ you'll see usb is all about packets | 08:29 |
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| Vratha | ali1234: your info was fantastic. i just reused the eth_addr that the device randomly used last time. figured that was a fairly safe bet | 08:29 |
| jaem | mmmm... packets :) | 08:29 |
| ali1234 | and the usbmon debug thingy just dumps the packets in hex :) | 08:29 |
| ali1234 | then you can look at the packet types and decode it | 08:30 |
| jaem | nice | 08:30 |
| * jaem will take a look at it later | 08:30 | |
| ali1234 | Vratha: i just tried it and it works here, but now i get eth3 instead of usb0 - but that could be due to it "recognising" the 00:11:... mac, which i've probably used like this before | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Vratha: maybe you find Nokia declared a macaddr range they like to see for their devices | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Vratha: in the end it most likely doesn't matter | 08:32 |
| ali1234 | jaem: also lsusb -vv will show you a *lot* of info about endpoints and stuff (which are also explained in that guide) | 08:32 |
| tekojo | RST38h sorry, I don't have enough rights to look deeper, ping X-Fade | 08:32 |
| jaem | yes, I think I've done that before | 08:32 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 isn't even aware of -w... just seems to remeber -a | 08:33 | |
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| RST38h | tekojo: both he and jeremiah are pretty dead at the moment. ok, will try later | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well as long as I know --help and it's not friggin crappybox ;-D | 08:35 |
| tekojo | RST38h, reeeally early morning for them right now :-) | 08:35 |
| Proteous | never, never do -vvv though, the flood protection of your console will change the root password on you | 08:35 |
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| RST38h | guess so... | 08:36 |
| * plr_ is at qt dev days, awesome to see so many n900's :) | 08:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aah' -v -v | 08:36 |
| jaem | LOL... the Bluetooth SIG's official HFP spec document uses MS Office '97 clipart >_< | 08:37 |
| jaem | fail! | 08:37 |
| jaem | that's actually kind of terrible | 08:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ouuuch | 08:38 |
| RST38h | why isn't this surprising? | 08:38 |
| jaem | I remember using that red car in elementary school for an assignment | 08:38 |
| jaem | :) | 08:38 |
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| jshupe | Hey, I have a quick question for someone on AT&T. | 08:39 |
| RST38h | jaem: you are young then =) | 08:39 |
| RST38h | we had to draw our own cars on paper =) | 08:39 |
| jshupe | I understand that the N900 will not be able to use AT&T's 3G network- but will it be able to use their EDGE network? | 08:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 ponders watching his 7€ toothpick | 08:39 | |
| jaem | RST38h, well, I'm a few yeas into university, but relatively, yes | 08:39 |
| RST38h | ok, so libraries go into libs... | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ponders *while | 08:40 |
| jaem | RST38h, what is this "paper" you speak of? Is it like e-Ink? ;) | 08:40 |
| johnx | jshupe, yes | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ridiculous | 08:40 |
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| jshupe | johnx: thanks, that was my understanding/ assumption but I just wanted to verify | 08:40 |
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| jshupe | i ordered one yesterday and am waiting on it to come in to replace my [broken] iphone | 08:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | jshupe: iPhone makes for a nice cigarette box | 08:42 |
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| jshupe | DocScrutinizer51: not when it's in the trash. | 08:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | lol. you stopped smoking? | 08:43 |
| jshupe | yep, and celebrated by throwing my iPhone into the concrete. | 08:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | XD | 08:44 |
| jshupe | work in the morning; g'night room. | 08:44 |
| jaem | night | 08:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | o/ | 08:45 |
| tigert | morning | 08:45 |
| tigert | houston, we have winter | 08:45 |
| jaem | tigert, we had winter here first XP | 08:46 |
| tigert | EFHF 140620Z 05005KT 340V110 9999 SCT029 BKN045 M12/M15 Q1028 | 08:46 |
| tigert | -12C aint much here but it still feels cold after months of zero | 08:46 |
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| * ShadowJK should get a fire going | 08:55 | |
| Vratha | it's 46F here | 08:55 |
| Vratha | and i'm happy about that, because it was recently 20F | 08:55 |
| Vratha | and i'm a pansy in really cold weather | 08:56 |
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| adeus | mmmm | 09:08 |
| adeus | sure was a nice bike ride to work | 09:08 |
| PolarFox | bike? | 09:11 |
| PolarFox | That would have been madness... | 09:11 |
| adeus | as in bicycle | 09:12 |
| PolarFox | Yeah, as in madness.. It's like -14C out there.. | 09:13 |
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| adeus | -16 | 09:13 |
| adeus | was when I left home | 09:13 |
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| wazd | mornin' maemo | 09:16 |
| Xisdibik | evening wazd | 09:16 |
| Xisdibik | :) | 09:16 |
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| KahnAu | you guys are insane | 09:18 |
| * KahnAu only rides in 24c rain | 09:18 | |
| KahnAu | :P | 09:18 |
| tekojo | It's never too cold, you only have the wrong clothes on. | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | the scandinavian attitude | 09:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:19 |
| Xisdibik | tekojo: i agree, its much easier to add another layer if your cold, much harder to remove layers in hot weather ;) | 09:19 |
| KahnAu | maximum clothing = nicks and jersey anything more is asking for heat stroke :P | 09:19 |
| johnx | heh, I wore a t-shirt and shorts to work all summer here. The thermostat in our office is worse than useless | 09:20 |
| wazd | wow, looks like Eldar didn't expect that I will find out his dirty lie :D | 09:20 |
| Xisdibik | I occasionally wear a sweatshirt when i go out, if im coming at night, when it deeps down towards like 3-5C | 09:20 |
| Xisdibik | deeps = dips | 09:21 |
| Xisdibik | like = to like | 09:21 |
| * Xisdibik is sleepy | 09:21 | |
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| johnx | wazd, alright, I'll bite. What's the lie? | 09:22 |
| * Xisdibik screen shots johnx biting | 09:22 | |
| johnx | om nom nom | 09:23 |
| * Xisdibik adds that to the screenshot | 09:23 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Xisdibik: you have to be Canadian | 09:26 |
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| wazd | johnx: he mentioned in twitter that he was never talking bout multiple maemo devices in 2010 | 09:26 |
| wazd | johnx: but in summer he was talking right in my face bout whooping 16 devices )) | 09:26 |
| johnx | heh | 09:27 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: could have had been the original plan but then economic crisis really struck? | 09:27 |
| wazd | johnx: and when I told him bout it - he said that I'm a liar and waited for an hour for me to reply :D | 09:27 |
| * Stskeeps speculates | 09:27 | |
| Xisdibik | DocScrutinizer: nope | 09:28 |
| Xisdibik | erm | 09:28 |
| Xisdibik | DocScrutinizer51: | 09:28 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: maybe, but he said that anyway | 09:28 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: probably | 09:28 |
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| ali1234 | luke-jr: "kernel low-level debugging" = serial headers (reply to ml post) | 09:30 |
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| luke-jr | ali1234: meh, serial headers don't work | 09:30 |
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| ali1234 | luke-jr: they should do if you enable DEBUG_LL | 09:30 |
| luke-jr | ali1234: how did you access it? | 09:30 |
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| ali1234 | luke-jr: i didn't, i'm not that guy | 09:30 |
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| luke-jr | ali1234: I mean they physically are not usable | 09:31 |
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| luke-jr | also, can you confirm: under Maemo4 I should be able to put getty on or echo to /dev/ptyS1 ? | 09:31 |
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| ali1234 | can't confirm it, no | 09:32 |
| ali1234 | it's tty not pty - pty is something different. if that wasn't a typo | 09:32 |
| luke-jr | yeah, it was a typo | 09:32 |
| luke-jr | knew something looked wrong, but couldn't figure out what ;) | 09:32 |
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| ali1234 | the hardware i use has serial port shared with the usb port so it's a lot easier for me. just hack a usb cable and set some mux lines | 09:32 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | ~ping | 09:33 |
| infobot | ~pong | 09:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | waaaah muxes | 09:33 |
| ali1234 | i've never had a serial port on any NIT | 09:33 |
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| luke-jr | "just"... | 09:34 |
| tigert | jahas | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | muxing console is a *really* *bad* idea | 09:34 |
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| ali1234 | DocScrutinizer51: SoC pin multiplexing | 09:35 |
| ali1234 | on omap850 the usb "pins" can also be serial or standard gpio, or some other things i forget | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no matter how. we at OM seen lots of despair coming from muxing console tty in neo1973 | 09:36 |
| ali1234 | so it's just a matter of cutting the end off a usb cable and connecting to the usual max232 level shifter | 09:36 |
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| ali1234 | DocScrutinizer this is something completely different. in fact, no matter how you mux the pins, the serial port still works. it just isn't connected to the outside world. | 09:37 |
| luke-jr | ali1234: is it? Neo1973 is OMAP 850 | 09:37 |
| ali1234 | wat | 09:38 |
| ali1234 | no it isn't | 09:38 |
| luke-jr | or at least close to that | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | neo1973 is based on samsung s3c2410 | 09:39 |
| luke-jr | it is? O.o | 09:39 |
| * luke-jr wonders what it was he saw based on OMAP 850 | 09:39 | |
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| luke-jr | oh | 09:39 |
| luke-jr | 770 | 09:40 |
| ali1234 | lots of HTC phones that arn't based on MSM | 09:40 |
| luke-jr | my bad | 09:40 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: btw, are you OpenMoko "proper" or just OpenMoko dev community? ;p | 09:40 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: if the former, will there be a new phone now that the lame wikireader is done? | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ali1234: ok. you're actually *not* muxing the 7*45 registers then I suppose | 09:41 |
| ali1234 | 7*45? | 09:41 |
| ShadowJK | i thought "proper" was sacked | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: 1) and No | 09:42 |
| luke-jr | :( | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: and ack | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mostly | 09:42 |
| ali1234 | DocScrutinizer it isn't really real multiplexing in the correct sense of the word, cos the pins only do 1 function at a time. just thatthe function is selectable through some registers | 09:42 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm not sure they'll get far with a lcd wikireader in this age of epaper, which is a shame really :/ | 09:43 |
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| ali1234 | same as you see on something like avr where a pin can be either i2c, or a gpio, depending on some reg | 09:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ali1234: on OM we had kernel deadlocks as the UART was blocked by another tty claiming same registers | 09:44 |
| ali1234 | i dunno why they call it multiplexing, but there you go | 09:44 |
| ali1234 | DocScrutinizer yeah that is MUCH higher level | 09:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ali1234: aiui you don't share UART between USB and tty function | 09:44 |
| ali1234 | no, not at all | 09:44 |
| ali1234 | they're totally different hardware blocks, and the reg just selects which one is connected to the physical pins of the SoC | 09:45 |
| suihkulokki | not all serials are tty tho | 09:45 |
| ali1234 | right, i'm just talking about omap850 :) | 09:45 |
| ali1234 | and how it can do serial on the usb lines, thus making it easy to get DEBUG_LL from a production device | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | k. so scratch my comments | 09:46 |
| ali1234 | comparitively easy anyway | 09:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | -tell luke-jr about DocScrutinizer | 09:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: and seems OM is completely out of phone business | 09:58 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: :( | 09:59 |
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| woglinde | jo | 10:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hi woglinde | 10:02 |
| woglinde | jo doc | 10:03 |
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| RST38h | Moo all | 10:27 |
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| johnx | m00f RST38h | 10:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: heya | 10:28 |
| Arkenoi | moo | 10:28 |
| RST38h | how are things? | 10:28 |
| johnx | pretty good | 10:28 |
| woglinde | moo rst | 10:28 |
| johnx | looks like I locked myself out of my remote server, while playing with LDAP PAM | 10:28 |
| woglinde | hi johnx | 10:28 |
| RST38h | woglinde: ehlo | 10:28 |
| johnx | allo woglinde | 10:28 |
| woglinde | johnx hahah | 10:28 |
| woglinde | always have a backup plan | 10:28 |
| johnx | anyone remember talk/talkd? | 10:28 |
| woglinde | when playing with auth-stuff | 10:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: Is it behind a drywall, cemented into a wall 15 years ago (I HOPE =)) | 10:29 |
| johnx | woglinde, I do. I can get a serial console | 10:29 |
| woglinde | ah okay | 10:29 |
| johnx | so I can reboot with init=/bin/sh if necessary | 10:29 |
| woglinde | yeah talk is so outdated with irc and xmpp | 10:29 |
| johnx | in this case I just left a root shell open on an ssh accessible serial console | 10:29 |
| johnx | the thing I like about talk is the realtime nature | 10:30 |
| woglinde | ???? | 10:30 |
| johnx | doesn't work for a whole group, but for two people it's fine | 10:30 |
| woglinde | irc is pretty realtime too | 10:30 |
| woglinde | xmpp too | 10:30 |
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| johnx | errr, the part where you can see what the other person is typing, as they type | 10:30 |
| woglinde | bah | 10:30 |
| woglinde | with all the corrections | 10:31 |
| johnx | yup | 10:31 |
| woglinde | no thanks | 10:31 |
| johnx | works for me | 10:31 |
| johnx | I don't make mistakes ever :) | 10:31 |
| luke-jr | johnx: XMPP can do that, I think | 10:32 |
| luke-jr | though I'm not sure any clients support it | 10:32 |
| johnx | it's ok | 10:32 |
| zash | what | 10:32 |
| johnx | I'm installing a talkd on my server :) | 10:32 |
| luke-jr | zash: see what the other person is typing as they type it | 10:33 |
| woglinde | johnx and you dont have encryption | 10:33 |
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| zash | and that's useful and not distracting .. how? | 10:33 |
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| johnx | it's a personal preference thing I guess | 10:34 |
| johnx | with two people (to me at least) it feels more like a conversation | 10:34 |
| johnx | woglinde, so? ssh seems good enough to me... | 10:34 |
| woglinde | hms maemo-sdk+ suckz sometimes | 10:35 |
| woglinde | libstdc++-dev: libstdc++-dev can not be used from tools (installed, but not allowed) | 10:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | btw while talking about editing input away from real input line... | 10:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | is this a bug or a feature the virtual kbd doesn't take a CR as a CR. Rather it just paste the edited line to input field and you need to open it again to send the real CR | 10:38 |
| johnx | depends on the app it seems | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kinda odd. So od it has to be a feature | 10:39 |
| johnx | I would describe it as a "weirdness" | 10:39 |
| johnx | that's a technical term up ^there^ | 10:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | test on xchat with vkbd | 10:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | damn. here it works | 10:41 |
| johnx | works in the browser too | 10:41 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: google wave :) | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx: so ack. depends on app | 10:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and yes i remember talk | 10:41 |
| * zash smacks timeless_mbp with a waveformed stick | 10:42 | |
| johnx | waiting for them to open up the beta of wave a bit. even if I got in, it's worthless without getting a good chunk of my normal contacts in there as well | 10:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | in friggin shell (err xterm) it fails | 10:42 |
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| johnx | yeah. I think the situation is that osso-xterm is doing something "clever" | 10:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | -lart osso-xterm | 10:43 |
| johnx | ~lart osso-xterm | 10:43 |
| * infobot hereby declares osso-xterm a troll | 10:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bah | 10:43 |
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| johnx | ahaha. you got trolled my osso-xterm :) | 10:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | johnx: *nod* | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | my dad applied for the beta :) | 10:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | (i got an invite months ago) | 10:46 |
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| johnx | I wonder how quick an open ssh connection to my server with talk running would eat up the battery on my N900... | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd assume it wouldn't be expensive unless there was a clock in the window or someone typing | 10:48 |
| johnx | I'll find out tomorrow | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx: actually not much | 10:48 |
| johnx | I'll much with my ssh keepalive and push it up to maybe a minute or so | 10:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx: should suffice | 10:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx: I need a keepalive=300 otherwise the ssh connect stalls eventually | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not on N900 | 10:51 |
| johnx | yeah, same here | 10:52 |
| johnx | still not clear on where that's happening | 10:52 |
| johnx | maybe at my router? | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I guess | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | NAT session timeout | 10:52 |
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| woglinde | hm do we have a field in control for original maintainer? | 11:01 |
| ManuelSE | mv /bin/pulseaudio /home/user fixes N900 performance problems | 11:01 |
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| ManuelSE | wish i knew wog | 11:01 |
| woglinde | ManuelSE lol | 11:01 |
| Vratha | i just have to say that i'm using twm in my debian VM, and i like it, dammit | 11:01 |
| woglinde | ManuelSE didnt this disable pulseaudio? | 11:02 |
| woglinde | because you move the binary | 11:02 |
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| ManuelSE | yes :( | 11:02 |
| ManuelSE | i want to bypass | 11:02 |
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| Myrtti | ... good luck | 11:03 |
| woglinde | hm why not dpkg --purge | 11:03 |
| ManuelSE | i have maker pentagram in /home/user. then i move pulseaudio bin and kill the process, then i can use n900 | 11:03 |
| Myrtti | I thought pulseaudio comes by default in N900? | 11:03 |
| ManuelSE | then i move it back to /bin when i finish | 11:04 |
| ManuelSE | yes but it must be killed | 11:04 |
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| ManuelSE | temporarily | 11:04 |
| woglinde | ManuelSE hm I see | 11:04 |
| ManuelSE | i wven turn autospawn off in .config but this did not help | 11:05 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:09 |
| woglinde | hi jaffa | 11:09 |
| redeeman | ManuelSE: wait, so if i move pulseaudio, it will revert to alsa or something? | 11:10 |
| Myrtti | I'd say if you need to do something to pulseaudio, you're doing something wrong | 11:10 |
| redeeman | Myrtti: elaborate on that? | 11:10 |
| Myrtti | redeeman: it's a phone, meant for talking and listening to other people | 11:11 |
| redeeman | yes | 11:11 |
| johnx | it's a linux device: it's meant to do whatever root wants it to do | 11:11 |
| redeeman | well in this case, I would prefer it not to use pulseaudio :) | 11:12 |
| Myrtti | I'd assume poking pulseaudio might have some Really Bad Effects on the phone part | 11:12 |
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| Myrtti | but of course, my opinion is worth about the snot of an elephant, because I'm just speculating based on my feelings. | 11:12 |
| Myrtti | and it's your device, so you're allowed to fuck it up too. | 11:13 |
| Myrtti | good luck :-) | 11:13 |
| johnx | redeeman, then ManuelSE's method should work fine :) If you want !pulseaudio && "any sound at all" ... well that's different :) | 11:14 |
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| redeeman | i obviously want it to revert to alsa directly :) | 11:14 |
| johnx | Myrtti, exactly. The best part about UNIX/Linux is that it comes with enough rope to hang yourself :D | 11:14 |
| redeeman | which i suspect is not gonna happen | 11:14 |
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| johnx | well, sure, it might "revert" to alsa just fine, but the question is: Do any of the default apps know how to speak to ALSA directly? | 11:15 |
| ManuelSE | individual app can hit hardware like /bin/pulseaudio | 11:15 |
| ManuelSE | just need source | 11:15 |
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| redeeman | ManuelSE: but does the individual applications support this? | 11:15 |
| redeeman | yes well | 11:15 |
| ManuelSE | mine would | 11:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | johnx: afaiu we use pulse | 11:15 |
| timeless_mbp | (we=maemo) | 11:16 |
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| Myrtti | johnx: stupidity has unfortunately not been criminalized | 11:16 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, yes. you do. | 11:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | (the browser for the most part doesn't use anything, but when it does, it should use sydney which would use pulse) | 11:16 |
| ManuelSE | timeless_mbp is nokia pulseaudio source available? | 11:16 |
| woglinde | but it seems to have some performance stuff | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ManuelSE: mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ | 11:16 |
| woglinde | aeh hits | 11:16 |
| johnx | Myrtti, "Now I'm not saying we put a death penalty on stupidity. I'm just saying we take the warning labels off of everything and let things work themselves out." | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ManuelSE: oddly enough, mxr is in the channel topic.. | 11:17 |
| ManuelSE | stupid would be using pulseaudio johnx | 11:17 |
| Myrtti | johnx: that would explain why USA still exi... nvm. | 11:17 |
| * Myrtti goes to hang up some laundry | 11:17 | |
| johnx | ManuelSE, so, build alsa with dmix, and start migrating your apps to use alsa. In this case, I think nothing is actually stopping you | 11:18 |
| Vratha | man | 11:18 |
| Vratha | it looks like newegg can't keep the n900 in stock | 11:18 |
| Vratha | i wonder how many they're ordering at a time | 11:18 |
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| johnx | 3 | 11:18 |
| ManuelSE | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1HldpVYbwI even arm optimized drnoksnes cannot run fullspeed. see 2:42 | 11:18 |
| Vratha | i'm going with "bs" on that one :) | 11:18 |
| johnx | bs: NaN | 11:19 |
| ManuelSE | johnx, i think alsa is on top of pulse | 11:19 |
| ruskie | erm | 11:19 |
| Vratha | johnx: you may want to use one of your lifelines | 11:19 |
| Vratha | :) | 11:19 |
| johnx | it can be done of course, but how is pulseaudio accessing the hardware? | 11:19 |
| redeeman | ManuelSE: that might be for some of the applications | 11:19 |
| ManuelSE | yes for compat layer | 11:19 |
| redeeman | i would guess they set it up so that alsa has an alsa -> pulse for compat | 11:20 |
| ManuelSE | it is in wiki | 11:20 |
| redeeman | and some apps hit that | 11:20 |
| redeeman | some apps hit pulse directly | 11:20 |
| johnx | ManuelSE, ls /dev/snd | 11:20 |
| redeeman | and pulse goes to the alsa hw device | 11:20 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: here? | 11:20 |
| Vratha | when are they opening the Ovi store for the n900? | 11:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | seems there is no other hw-audio-card drivers than ALSA | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | Vratha: sometime before the year 2971 | 11:22 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer51, well, there are different ways to get audio from a linux app to speakers/headphones. Just look at the N8x0/Maemo4 ;) | 11:23 |
| Vratha | timeless_mbp: thanks; i take it you're clueless then | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | Vratha: more like it isn't announced information | 11:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | and most likely if it was announced, it'd be wrong | 11:23 |
| Vratha | ah | 11:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | so stop asking stupid questions | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | we can't read tea leaves very well here | 11:23 |
| Vratha | yeah, it was such a stupid question | 11:23 |
| Vratha | next time i'll make sure i know all of the internets | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | this is #maemo, not #ovi | 11:24 |
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| ruskie | there aren't any stupid questions, only stupid answers | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | ovi is a nokia entity totally apart from maemo | 11:24 |
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| Vratha | it sure is, but since maemo is used on nokia devices and financially backed bythem | 11:24 |
| johnx | Vratha, I'm thinking he took offense to you calling him "clueless" | 11:24 |
| lcuk | i have a part in ovi! | 11:24 |
| Vratha | it kinda makes sense to think someone might know | 11:24 |
| Vratha | johnx: yeah | 11:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so a usual setup would look like app->alsa2PA->PAserver->PA2alsa-hwdriver | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | Vratha: it also makes sense that no one would know | 11:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | your logic is awful | 11:24 |
| johnx | so, you two make up and be friends now :) | 11:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | the odds are that lcuk knows more about their schedule than i an employee | 11:25 |
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| lcuk | i know nothing about their schedule | 11:25 |
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| lcuk | i just felt around the internal mechanics of the ovi | 11:25 |
| Vratha | timeless_mbp: actually, my logic is built on empirical evidence | 11:25 |
| Vratha | so... | 11:25 |
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| johnx | c'mon. better things to argue about: like why my LDAP setup is being a PITA | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | what evidence do you have that anyone in nokia talks to anyone in nokia? | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd love to hear it | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | because i've been with nokia for >3 1/2 years, and i have yet to see it | 11:27 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, LOL | 11:27 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, I have recorded video from the summit! though, maybe that was two Nokia guys overhearing each other talking to other attendees | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: what's to argue? it's LDAP | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: correct | 11:27 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, so, what should i use in place of LDAP? (open to suggestions) | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | that's not us talking to nokians, that's nokians talking to other people with nokians eavesdropping :) | 11:28 |
| johnx | and don't say NIS :P | 11:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | johnx: heh | 11:28 |
| Vratha | ah, you would like to call for an appeal to expertise | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | no, sorry | 11:28 |
| Vratha | i'll get right on with that logical fallacy | 11:28 |
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| Vratha | i actually need sleep now; night | 11:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | Vratha: asking for scheduling information is inappropriate | 11:29 |
| red | wow, my phone is really hot | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | if there's an announced schedule, it'll be announced somewhere else | 11:29 |
| red | think ill go for a smoke with it :p | 11:29 |
| Vratha | in one internet "guy's" opinion | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | either on press.nokia.com, ovi.com, or maemo.nokia.com | 11:29 |
| johnx | or on engadget, or mobile-review :) | 11:29 |
| red | 24h tethered with utorrent running on the main pc - dont think ill leave it on another night like that :P | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | or peter@maemo on talk ... | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | red: if it survived one night, then it most likely can stand it arbitrary timespans | 11:31 |
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| johnx | though lots of heat will have adverse effects on battery life in the long run | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | s/one night/24h | 11:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx: ack | 11:32 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if ther's a hidden receptacle for ext. GSM ant somewhere on N900 | 11:34 | |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 11:36 |
| johnx | I bet it's hidden behind where the GSM antenna is plugged in :> | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lol | 11:36 |
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| johnx | *&$% you LDAP! I will bend you to my will! | 11:39 |
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| ManuelSE | johnx can mplayer -ao alsa talk to hw pcm? | 11:40 |
| ManuelSE | you know verymmuch, about this | 11:41 |
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| johnx | no idea | 11:41 |
| johnx | never tried it | 11:41 |
| johnx | in my case, I'm perfectly happy with pulseaudio :) | 11:41 |
| ManuelSE | but it consume so much cpu | 11:41 |
| johnx | yeah. it's a crime. mp3s only play for like 20 hours <_< | 11:41 |
| ManuelSE | see the video for proof | 11:41 |
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| ManuelSE | that is too much for high performance applications | 11:42 |
| ManuelSE | yes, a software crime | 11:42 |
| johnx | ok. good luck with your work | 11:42 |
| ManuelSE | made by a manager | 11:42 |
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| johnx | I'm pretty sure there are some reasonable technical reasons why pulseaudio was used *and* I bet there's a good way to make it take less CPU time | 11:43 |
| ManuelSE | ok, faster sound coming | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | friggin calendar doesn't know to simply do "next/prev week/whatever" by simple swipe like desktops :-( | 11:43 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer51, tried that a couple times. are you starting from offscreen (which has a known problem)? | 11:44 |
| johnx | ManuelSE, you know why pulseaudio takes up so much CPU time, right? | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm. didn't check | 11:44 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: come on, what does PA bring to a portable device that is not available in plain ALSA? | 11:44 |
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| johnx | PaulFertser, compatibility with gnome apps. | 11:45 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: what exactly do you mean? | 11:45 |
| redeeman | hmm, hmm.. why does one need to install rootsh to get root? it seems that package doesn't provide the gainroot thing, so that obviously is there to begin with, so why install rootsh instead of using just gainroot? | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | k. nevermind | 11:45 |
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| johnx | PaulFertser, I mean, some gnome apps use pulseaudio, so having pulse makes them easier to port | 11:46 |
| johnx | redeeman, try using gainroot without rootsh installed | 11:46 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, anyways. I won't defend Nokia's decisions for them. Find their sound guy if you want to debate the merits of alsa vs pulse | 11:46 |
| Termana | pulseaudio takes up a heap of cpu cycles because they hired microsoft programmers | 11:47 |
| Termana | zing! | 11:47 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: (find their sound guy) sounds like an easy task, right? | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: roughly, pulse is the solution that's winning | 11:47 |
| PaulFertser | (irony) | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | so trying to demand everyone use alsa is a waste of breath | 11:47 |
| redeeman | johnx: well reading the script, it doesn't use either the root or rootsh binary provided by rootsh, so why wouldn't it work? | 11:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you want to waste your breath, be my guest, but please, not here | 11:47 |
| redeeman | but lol, using pulse also uses alsa | 11:48 |
| johnx | redeeman, part of the rootsh installation flips a bit in gainroots config, I believe | 11:48 |
| redeeman | so pulse is hardly winning | 11:48 |
| redeeman | johnx: oh | 11:48 |
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| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: you say pulse is winning but it's not exactly correct. It's winning only on desktop GNU/Linux distros. And it uses alsa driver to output any actual sound. | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: so erm | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | you want us to actively diverge from the desktop distros | 11:48 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: it has particular advantages and cool architecture etc but it doesn't make it immediately the most suitable thing to use on a portable device. | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | where all real dev work is done | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | and where the real interesting potential apps come from | 11:49 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: it's wining on mobile platforms too. you know android doesn't use alsa right? | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | and where the people who understand how to write audio apps live | 11:49 |
| ali1234 | so that's basically pulse 1 alsa 0 | 11:49 |
| redeeman | ali1234: what does it use then? | 11:49 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: not really, can you tell me about any app you use that doesn't have ALSA output capability and is PA-only? | 11:49 |
| ali1234 | redeeman: it uses binary blobs | 11:49 |
| redeeman | i see | 11:49 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: i doubt android uses PA. | 11:49 |
| redeeman | well that's even worse than pulse -> alsa | 11:49 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: also android is POS, so it doesn't prove anything at all ever. | 11:50 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: where are all these mobile phones that use only alsa, and not pulse? | 11:50 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: where're those apps that use only PA and not alsa? | 11:50 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: pulseaudio is not a driver api | 11:51 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: you bet i know | 11:51 |
| johnx | ManuelSE, so anyways, pulseaudio takes up so much time because apparently it does some weird digital amplification to make sound coming out of the speakers sound louder without being totally distorted | 11:51 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: but since you ask, any sound app that is running on anything other than linux | 11:51 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: neither alsalib is a driver api. | 11:51 |
| ali1234 | and using pulse | 11:51 |
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| PaulFertser | ali1234: give me an example of any widely deployed app that can use pulse but can't use alsa directly. Please. | 11:52 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, do you just lurk in wait for these topics to come up? | 11:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ali1234++ | 11:52 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: SDL on N900 | 11:52 |
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| redeeman | sdl could just have been compiled with alsa enabled | 11:53 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: SDL does support alsa directly, so any SDL app can use alsa directly. | 11:53 |
| ali1234 | just try disabling pulse, and notice how SDL fails to fall back to using alsa | 11:53 |
| w00t | johnx: I was starting to wonder whether he comes here exclusively to complain | 11:53 |
| red | So is it pulseaudios fault that N900 media player has this weird sounds Compression? | 11:53 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: means sdl is compiled without alsa output plugin, just that... | 11:53 |
| ali1234 | yeah, so? | 11:53 |
| Termana | johnx - shh its fun to watch people argue over pointless shit | 11:53 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: you proved nothing by this example, i'm afraid. | 11:53 |
| red | I can hear on silent parts that the sound goes up and down and its driving me mad since I compose music and that kinda master compression is just plain wrong | 11:53 |
| redeeman | ali1234: " any sound app that is running on anything other than linux" <-- not true, they support multiple apis then | 11:53 |
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| redeeman | red: erhm, pulseaudio definitely does something aswell, as its eating lots of cpu | 11:54 |
| johnx | Termana, eh. I was hoping to get ManuelSE to do some work for me, in terms of reducing CPU usage of pulseaudio :P | 11:54 |
| red | redeeman: thats what I was afraid of. However I don't understand those things that deeply (apis etc) | 11:54 |
| johnx | red, interesting. I wonder if we can find a way to tweak that setting somewhere in PA... | 11:54 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: w00t but PA is not pointless shit. It's really interesting to see some sane examples of using it. Also when we tried PA on openmoko we were quite disappointed by numerous bugs, including arm-specific. It's not pointless talk! | 11:54 |
| Termana | johnx - yeah, and then all THIS started | 11:54 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: you proved nothing other than that pulseaudio is not a driver | 11:54 |
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| redeeman | red: well either its some processing, or a huge bug, probably its some form of resampling | 11:55 |
| red | johnx: I went through all sound settings and media player settings without finding a way to disable the compression | 11:55 |
| red | resampling wont compress the audio | 11:55 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, not pointless to talk about its technical merits, which was not the discussion happening | 11:55 |
| redeeman | i don't know about its media player though, i don't use it | 11:55 |
| w00t | PaulFertser: yes, but you do this with *everything*, and you never have anything positive to contribute other than "you're doing everything wrong", which doesn't really work in a community setting | 11:55 |
| johnx | red, as in you dug around in /etc? | 11:55 |
| red | like a limiter/compressor does (amplify sounds until a spike would distort, then reduce the sound and slowly gain it upwards) | 11:55 |
| florian | good moring | 11:55 |
| florian | hrm | 11:55 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: i was not intending to prove. I just asked why do you guys thought using PA is better than using plain alsa. You told there're some apps that can't use alsa but can use pa. But you failed to provide an example. | 11:55 |
| red | johnx: thats out of my expertise I'm afraid | 11:56 |
| redeeman | red: that sounds insane | 11:56 |
| woglinde | hm | 11:56 |
| johnx | red, great. I'll look there and see if I can find anything | 11:56 |
| woglinde | I am to lazy to send my pulse-patches in | 11:56 |
| w00t | PaulFertser: if it wasn't pointless, you'd be finding ways to do something about it if at least bringing it up somewhere where change might occur or you might get an explanation, but all you seem to do is vocalise, constantly | 11:56 |
| woglinde | but they are only for a minority | 11:56 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: because using plain alsa is not an option without a software mixer such as pulseaudio | 11:56 |
| PaulFertser | w00t: give me n900 schematics and i'll contribute an answer to the n900 usb host mode questions. | 11:56 |
| woglinde | like using uClinc | 11:56 |
| w00t | see? | 11:56 |
| woglinde | args uClibc | 11:56 |
| w00t | you're doing it again | 11:56 |
| red | johnx: it might be called compression or limiting | 11:56 |
| ali1234 | you basically have a choice between esound, arts, dmix, and pulseaudio. only one of those isn't total garbage | 11:57 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: fyi alsa includes software mixer that is not any worse than PA's given possible usecases. | 11:57 |
| redeeman | ali1234: not so, explain how my desktop does fine with pure alsa then? | 11:57 |
| johnx | red, would it be similar to what happens with too much "pre-amp"? (is that the right word?) | 11:57 |
| red | Audio level compression - in which the dynamic range (difference between loud and quiet) of an audio waveform is reduced. | 11:57 |
| ali1234 | redeeman: you're using dmix and don't know it because you happen to be one of the 1% of people for whom it actually works | 11:57 |
| red | and/or amplified using gain in the end | 11:57 |
| PaulFertser | w00t: also i did some little stuff to help compile mer on debian stable thus giving an ability to run it on armv4 targets. | 11:58 |
| redeeman | ali1234: i know exactly what im using, and i happen to not be using dmix, and furthermore, dmix works for everyone that doesn't use a distribution that has deliberately fucked it up | 11:58 |
| red | johnx: I'm unsure if I can explain it in better terms in english :( | 11:58 |
| PaulFertser | w00t: i'm not constantly complaining. I just asked about PA. Just asked. Why do you want to mistreat my questions? | 11:58 |
| w00t | PaulFertser: yes, and that's great, but that's one contribution out of hours of discussions which go around and around in circles and never seem to get anywhere remotely close to productive | 11:58 |
| red | I'll try to give an example | 11:58 |
| ManuelSE | johnx sorry -was away - yes pulseaudio load is lower with head,hones | 11:58 |
| ali1234 | redeeman: oh so you're one of that other 1% of people who has a soundcard with hardware mixing and a working alsa driver? | 11:58 |
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| ManuelSE | heh ali | 11:59 |
| redeeman | ali1234: i do not have hardware mixing | 11:59 |
| PaulFertser | w00t: wanna see an example of using per-application softvol controls in pure alsa? Is it pointless? | 11:59 |
| redeeman | either way, dmix does work | 11:59 |
| ManuelSE | all we need is for a couple games/emus to bypass pulse | 11:59 |
| ali1234 | redeeman: heh, then i guess your definition of "working" is only playing sound in one app at a time? | 11:59 |
| w00t | PaulFertser: donotcare | 11:59 |
| w00t | PaulFertser: harping on about it here constantly isn't going to do anything | 11:59 |
| redeeman | ali1234: yes, that is what i wish to happen 99% of the time, when i want something else, i use dmix | 11:59 |
| * timeless_mbp resolves redeeman as broken | 12:00 | |
| redeeman | and dmix does work | 12:00 |
| red | take a trance song and you know they have these silent parts when the song is starting to go to a uplift -- that silent part is far away from "peak volume" so the compression kicks in and brings the volume higher, until some sound would peak to digital distortion, during when it pumps the volume down fast, again letting it be louder until some other sound would go to distort.. It's good for getting oldies play louder, but it's an awful thing to make "always on" | 12:00 |
| redeeman | but im guessing your testing of dmix involves installing ubuntu | 12:00 |
| ManuelSE | redeeman, most people want multi sound playback from OS | 12:00 |
| redeeman | and concluding it doesn't work | 12:00 |
| redeeman | ManuelSE: which alsa can do aswell | 12:00 |
| ManuelSE | yeah i use dmix | 12:00 |
| PaulFertser | w00t: i asked about PA but got a rough and pointless argument instead. That's what happened. I'm not doing what you're accusing me of :| | 12:00 |
| ManuelSE | i have to read all this discussion now | 12:01 |
| woglinde | if pulse has this performance problems it should be not used or fixed | 12:01 |
| red | just wondering if its due PA or what :P | 12:01 |
| PaulFertser | You people are too used to holy wars, can't even discuss issues based on the technical merits :| | 12:01 |
| redeeman | red: i would not expect your issue to be because of pulseaudio, but its just a guess | 12:01 |
| ali1234 | redeeman: actually it involves using various distros over the past 10 years and ubuntu being the first one to actually have working sound that doesn't mysteriously stop working when some random app blocks the sound card | 12:01 |
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| Myrtti | and all this time could've been used productively, like washing laundry, or making brunch. | 12:01 |
| red | alright | 12:01 |
| red | heres for hoping someone will discover what causes it and how to disable it | 12:02 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: there are no holy wars | 12:02 |
| timeless_mbp | only wastes of effort | 12:02 |
| woglinde | Myrtti or fix pa | 12:02 |
| red | I do notice it affecting alot less on lower volume thought | 12:02 |
| timeless_mbp | this is a community | 12:02 |
| johnx | red, looking at the config right now, but it'll take a while before I can figure out what's "safe" to change :) | 12:02 |
| woglinde | hm nxcomp is in | 12:02 |
| woglinde | now nxssh and nxproxy | 12:02 |
| w00t | Myrtti: hey, my productivity for the day is going fine, two bugs fixed, mail dealt with, and it's only 10am | 12:02 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia happens to have picked the same solution that various other desktop vendors have picked | 12:02 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, you didn't give a single technical merit, either. Also: You're discussing things with people who have no control over Nokia's direction in this regard | 12:02 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: i asked the community why they use PA and got only bashing in response, thanks | 12:02 |
| Myrtti | w00t: great! | 12:02 |
| timeless_mbp | you've acknowledged that | 12:02 |
| red | johnx: thats fine. I'm not expecting anyone to fix this for me just because I whine on IRC :D | 12:02 |
| w00t | johnx: summarised perfectly, thanks | 12:02 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: um, no | 12:02 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia chose pulse | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | asking the community will get you precisely what you got | 12:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | it wasn't a community decision | 12:03 |
| redeeman | the community might still know though | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | but from the looks of it, this community would have chosen pulse anyway | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | and the reasons they would have are roughly above | 12:03 |
| woglinde | timeless_mbp how much lennart payed? | 12:03 |
| ali1234 | pulse is the only sane choice | 12:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | woglinde: we don't discuss salaries | 12:04 |
| johnx | red, no worries. If I figure anything out, I'll need you to test :) | 12:04 |
| woglinde | *g* | 12:04 |
| timeless_mbp | woglinde: any other stupid questions? :) | 12:04 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: (single technical merit) i didn't because it's obvious: PA is/was known to cause problems every now and then, it's an additional resource hog and indirection layer anywhere. It's obviously a complication comparing to plain alsa setup. That's pro-alsa argument, and it's obvious. I wanted to hear any pro-PA argument. | 12:04 |
| yabo | hi all | 12:04 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: $5 if you switch to OSS | 12:04 |
| * w00t dons flameproof underwear | 12:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: my group switched to sydney :) | 12:04 |
| w00t | to what? never heard of that | 12:04 |
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| yabo | I extensively tried the GPS & navigation stuff of the N900 this week-end and I'm very disappointed :( Anyone got problems with it too ? | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/foms-lca-recap.html | 12:05 |
| redeeman | hmm pulseaudio appears to be set for 48khz | 12:05 |
| redeeman | that will obviously require it to resample on most audio | 12:05 |
| red | 48khz is fine | 12:05 |
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| Laiska | Hey guys, a silly question.. where are e.g. the pictures locted on the n900 filesystem? I was thinking that I could just scp them to my laptop hazzle-free.. | 12:05 |
| pupnik | MyDocs | 12:05 |
| Laiska | s/locted/located | 12:06 |
| Laiska | Hmm | 12:06 |
| redeeman | Laiska: ~/MyDocs/.something probably | 12:06 |
| woglinde | Laiska depends on the apps | 12:06 |
| johnx | Laiska, /home/user/MyDocs/.images | 12:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | Laiska: which 'pictures' | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | photos are ~/MyDocs/DCIM | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | which is labeled "Camera" or "Photos" or {your ****py localized string here} | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | pictures are typically ~/MyDocs/.images | 12:06 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: hmm, interesting, thanks | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | screenshots are ~/MyDocs/.images/Screenshots/ | 12:07 |
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| Laiska | DCIM was the answer I was looking for, thanks timeless_mbp | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | and image viewer will roughly speaking show any image anywhere in ~/MyDocs | 12:07 |
| woglinde | hm oh it has its screenshot funktion now | 12:07 |
| pupnik | PaulFertser, maybe they just wanted to be forward-looking with sound arch. | 12:07 |
| ShadowJK | the speakerprotection thingy probably uses more cpu than any resampling.. :) | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | woglinde: ctrl-shift-p | 12:07 |
| PaulFertser | redeeman: quite possibly you and me know much more about alsa and PA than ali1234 and yet "the community" makes me look wrong and pointless, what a day... | 12:07 |
| woglinde | timeless_mbp was this on diablo too? | 12:07 |
| Laiska | Other answers good2know stuff also :) | 12:07 |
| woglinde | I awlays installed gpe-scap | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | woglinde: no | 12:07 |
| woglinde | ah | 12:07 |
| woglinde | good | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | 'good'? :) | 12:07 |
| ali1234 | PaulFertser: next will you ask what QT offers a mobile platform over ncurses? | 12:07 |
| pupnik | shadowjk, how about an alternate pulse speaker sink with volume limiter | 12:08 |
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| woglinde | hoi pupnik | 12:08 |
| pupnik | hi | 12:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: so, get hired by nokia and get them to change their mind | 12:08 |
| pupnik | instead of eq | 12:08 |
| red | ShadowJK: what speaker protection | 12:08 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: do you have any PA or ALSA patch accepted upstream? | 12:08 |
| redeeman | red, johnx: just read through the pulseaudio config files, there appears to be nothing that suggests any filtering like what you experience | 12:08 |
| ShadowJK | red, does that compression happen through headphones too? | 12:08 |
| red | ShadowJK: like a master limiter? | 12:08 |
| pupnik | redeeman -hidden | 12:08 |
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| ali1234 | PaulFertser: what does that have to do with anything? | 12:09 |
| red | ShadowJK: not that I've noticed. I havent listened with headphones much yet | 12:09 |
| redeeman | pupnik: ? | 12:09 |
| red | only videos | 12:09 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: well, that would probably tell something about your depth of understanding the issues... | 12:09 |
| pupnik | i also liiked in config - they did not expose speaker protection there -aict | 12:09 |
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| ShadowJK | red, i don't know the full story, but apparently you can kill the speakers or make then sound like crap, and there's this pulseaudio module running when you listen through speakers | 12:09 |
| pupnik | yes | 12:10 |
| ShadowJK | so there's less CPU use when listening through headphones, too | 12:10 |
| pupnik | yes | 12:10 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: you sound like questioning _any_ nokia decision here is asking for trouble :( | 12:10 |
| red | ah yes, well I could care less about using the phones built in speakers :) | 12:10 |
| pupnik | nokia can not tell us how to break the speakers | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: roughly it's a waste of time | 12:10 |
| ShadowJK | red, so this compression you described, was that through headphones? | 12:10 |
| pupnik | we must find this ourselves :) | 12:10 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, asking people to defend decisions made by other people generally is a waste of time, yes | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | provide a patch or a demo | 12:11 |
| red | but ShadowJK I guess it counts as speaker when using a 3,5mm plug to drive audio to car stereo :p | 12:11 |
| red | just big headphones ;) | 12:11 |
| Laiska | Aah scp worked like a dream, this is excellent as I hate connecting cables/BT pairing etc.. + easy to make scripts for automated upload | 12:11 |
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| johnx | Laiska, if you like scp, you'll love rsync :) | 12:11 |
| ShadowJK | red, nah that's using the headphone output and that bypasses that speakerprotection thing. Now to find out whether it's the n900 or your car stereo doing compression | 12:11 |
| red | my car stereo is definetly not compressing | 12:12 |
| woglinde | johnx dont see much effort there | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx: paul wasn't asking for defence. He was asking why PA is used | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | ali1234: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/bz/archives/016571.html comes to mind | 12:12 |
| red | been using it 3 years, via sony walkman, iphone, usb mass storage and cd's | 12:12 |
| red | none of which have the same symptom | 12:12 |
| Laiska | Oh yeah, rsync.. | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: "because someone at nokia picked it" | 12:12 |
| ShadowJK | hm :( | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | but roughly "because it's the solution people are comfortable with and which is used on the desktop" | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | it's also "the one with active development/support" | 12:13 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, s/defend/explain/ | 12:13 |
| ShadowJK | when pa was announced to be used in maemo5 how many years ago, everybody was like "yay \o/, go nokia!" heh | 12:13 |
| flux | paulfertser, while I indeed have problems with PA on my desktop setup, I have no problem having it on my n900.. for example it looks like its application-specific mixer setting capabilities have been taken into good use. | 12:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | and nokia likes to support the standard open source projects, because it makes us look like good guys | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | next question: 'do we (the community) think that's a wise decision?' | 12:13 |
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| johnx | ShadowJK, because it replaced esound outputting to the DSP :P | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: i think that's an unwise question | 12:13 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: (defending others' decisions) it's an interesting conception, i thought that defending others' opinions is an opportunity to learn and to find important technical points. | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | but the community of #maemo has already above stated "yes" | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: no, it's an opportunity to annoy people | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | please stop doing it. | 12:14 |
| woglinde | PaulFertser you have your answer | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | when i go to a class and ask questions of my teacher | 12:14 |
| * w00t agrees | 12:14 | |
| timeless_mbp | my teacher is paid to answer my questions | 12:14 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, great. Pretend you're Nokia and chose pulse. Why did you do it? | 12:14 |
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| woglinde | even if you dont like it | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | no matter how stupid | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | but my teacher is paid to do this | 12:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | if i were a researcher and these people were filling in a survey for me | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd have to pay them too | 12:15 |
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| ShadowJK | instead of arguing about PA today and now, it'd be smarter to go look at the roadmap of maemo6/7 because it's too late for changes in m5 | 12:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | either with movie tickets, or dinner, or real cash | 12:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | so, stop abusing the community | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want to do this survey, offer people some compensation | 12:15 |
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| pupnik | i am sure pa will be fine | 12:15 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Why? To torture me of course | 12:15 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: i see you're quite important member of the community, shaping its opinions in a fast and perfect style. | 12:15 |
| * timeless_mbp would suggest looking at m7 since m6 is probably close to frozen on feature set | 12:15 | |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: you're learning. | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | good. | 12:16 |
| * RST38h does not see the point of this discussion: whatever audio framework nokia would choose, it would still be crap | 12:16 | |
| johnx | heh. so how much overhead would there be to add dmix to alsa? | 12:16 |
| RST38h | The last working audio framework in Unix was /dev/dsp | 12:16 |
| woglinde | johnx someone has to do it | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: heh | 12:16 |
| ShadowJK | there's a reason why other desktop distros abandoned dmix... it's broken | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bah | 12:17 |
| johnx | woglinde, yeah. but the source is there, and it shouldn't be *too* hard. I mean, if it wouldn't add a ton of overhead, maybe I could even do it *shrugs* | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: surely you have better things to do? | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | i know i do | 12:17 |
| w00t | *g* | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | (like streaming a live broadcast to two groups in <6hrs | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | ) | 12:18 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: looking at n810 i see nokia didn't implement proper alsa support at all, most probably due to not perfect correspondence of alsa architecture with hardware. So they decided to go the easy route providing a simple kernel driver and a custom userspace solution (esd plugin). | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | (groups = distinct streaming servers, including akamai) | 12:18 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: given they didn't face any obstacles with that probably they decided to do the same on n900, just using more sane PA instead of the shitty esd. | 12:18 |
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| ShadowJK | there's alsa on n900 | 12:19 |
| jvs | good monring | 12:19 |
| * ShadowJK uses mplayer with it | 12:19 | |
| timeless_mbp | "didn't face any obstacles" | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | oh sure | 12:19 |
| jvs | *morning (too early) | 12:19 |
| PaulFertser | ShadowJK: there's alsa on n810 but it doesn't work fast/properly. | 12:19 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK *g* read the discussion from beginning | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | from RPM "PA is a repleacement for esd" | 12:19 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, you don't know the half of it. :) Sound output comes from the DSP on the N8x0, so the kernel doesn't even get the final say on it | 12:19 |
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| PaulFertser | johnx: i know about that. | 12:19 |
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| * RST38h has never seen fully working alsa | 12:20 | |
| woglinde | rst fully? | 12:20 |
| redeeman | well then you should look at mine | 12:20 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: doesn't mean that there can't be proper alsa driver (and additional interfaces) implemented to do it more standard (in Linux world) way. | 12:20 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, I am somewhat curious if cutting out pulseaudio would actually reduce battery load | 12:20 |
| RST38h | redeeman: just means you have not digged deep enough | 12:20 |
| ShadowJK | pulse is the standard linux desktop these days.. | 12:20 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, there were, eventually. (at least for the N810, but not the N800) | 12:20 |
| ShadowJK | fedora doesn't even have dmix anymore, atleast not out of the box | 12:20 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK not here | 12:20 |
| woglinde | here it dont works | 12:20 |
| PaulFertser | woglinde: (compiling alsa with dmix) should be trivial, probably it's even done this way in maemo. | 12:21 |
| RST38h | Shadow: s/these days/of the hour/ | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: roughly, i'm sure it would | 12:21 |
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| woglinde | PaulFertser hm I didnt complain about it | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | because pulse is usually eating 80% of the cpu :) | 12:21 |
| jvs | does anybody know how to make the n900 to pull all the contacts from the various IM accounts? | 12:21 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: are you sure n810 alsa driver works "ok"? Because in my experience it doesn't, the sound skips or breaks. | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: but, the question is could one easily replace it with something else and not lose features | 12:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | from hearing it discussed as a culprit internally | 12:22 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, I never claimed it worked "ok." I only claimed that it existed ;) | 12:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's clear that no one internally has ever suggested that | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | which implies they don't consider it feasible | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and the guys who work on sound/multimedia are smart | 12:22 |
| RST38h | probably dogmatic too | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | if they're not even considering it, i have faith that they have good reasons not to | 12:23 |
| johnx | Right. Lots of stuff probably depends on it, on Maemo at least | 12:23 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: i never denied it. But you see, i gave a possible reasonably sounding explanation to why nokia choosed PA, didn't i? | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: actually | 12:23 |
| redeeman | i would have no problem with PA on the N900 if it didn't eat so much cpu | 12:23 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, ah. Right. That you did :) | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i think lots of things use canberra (?) or sydney | 12:23 |
| zaheerm | dmix doesn't even come close to handlign what the n900 needs | 12:23 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: people are fallible, too, it is possible that it simply has been overlooked, but I wonder how it could be brought to their attention | 12:23 |
| zaheerm | think bluetooth headsets for example | 12:23 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: i was hoping to hear that from "the community" so i would have an opporutinity to present an alternative pov. | 12:23 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, so what I'm thinking is pulseaudio -> alsa-dmix -> alsa-hw | 12:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | w00t: one person is fallible, a team of 4-8 would only rule something out if there's a good reason | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | like "not enough time" | 12:24 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: (of course, I'm probably wrong, but it'd perhaps be good to get an official viewpoint on whether it's possible.. or what the pitfalls are) | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | given that they had at times not more than a month | 12:24 |
| PaulFertser | zaheerm: are you sure you need real-time rerounting between A2DP and wired output? I'd choose more performance over this minor feature. | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm willing to accept your idea as "theoretically possible, but not implementable within the time alloted" | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | note that maemo 5 is roughly speaking api frozen | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | even if they wanted to replace pulse, they couldn't | 12:25 |
| w00t | yeah, talking for future here, obviously | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | the final sdk shipped, the sales product shipped | 12:25 |
| zaheerm | PaulFertser, yes, when i am on a phone call and my car's bluetooth connects i want it real-time not 2 seconds gap of no sound | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but given that alsa does not seem to be the way of the future | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, libcanberra is the other one | 12:26 |
| PaulFertser | zaheerm: well, that would be a reasonable usecase, too bad i got bashed by "the community" before hearing about it. | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | zaheerm: what, you want a working piece of consumer electronics? | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | free open source, high latency linux isn't good enough for you? | 12:26 |
| tbf | i wonder that lennart didn't investigate PA's high cpu load on n900 yet, as he got a n900 on the summit | 12:26 |
| woglinde | timeless_mbp aeh so what will be in kernel? | 12:26 |
| zaheerm | timeless_mbp, yes hence the ened for pulseaudio | 12:26 |
| tbf | have to poke him on occasion | 12:26 |
| zaheerm | tbf, there are pulseaudio hackers inside nokia too | 12:26 |
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| zaheerm | timeless_mbp, libcanberra is for naming and theming of audio event sounds | 12:27 |
| woglinde | tbf lennart has no unit tests so what you expect | 12:27 |
| tbf | zaheerm: still i wonder that lennart didn't look yet | 12:27 |
| zaheerm | tbf, he probably has looked, sure | 12:27 |
| woglinde | tbf he even dont test then other libc's | 12:27 |
| * timeless_mbp remembers having lunch w/ lennart @nokia .hel | 12:27 | |
| timeless_mbp | (and also meeting him elsewhere) | 12:27 |
| zaheerm | i don't have any issues with PA on my n900, it mostly works fine | 12:27 |
| * RST38h wonders if it is worth mentioning that PA hangs your application when there is media player running | 12:28 | |
| tbf | zaheerm: and PA really is the stuff needed for a device like the n900 | 12:28 |
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| RST38h | And that it required a reboot, at least until 42.11 | 12:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: roughly speaking audio is supposed to be a high priority task | 12:28 |
| tbf | zaheerm: just the amount of CPU time it spends on audio playback is confusing | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | iiuc | 12:28 |
| zaheerm | tbf, that or some proprietary crap that nokia internally wopuld have created, i'd rather pulseaudio | 12:28 |
| RST38h | Oh, it has nothing to do with priority | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: besides 42.11 is sales | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | nothing before that matters | 12:29 |
| woglinde | tbf maybee someone should point lennart to oprofile | 12:29 |
| RST38h | Has everything to do with PA being a pile of crap that has never been debugged properly | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: so go debug it | 12:29 |
| tbf | zaheerm: knowing how doing nokia internal crap works, i am pretty happy that they choose PA | 12:29 |
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| zaheerm | woglinde, he knows a lot about oprofile, he also wriote a profiler for lock contention to improve performance in pa | 12:29 |
| tbf | woglinde: i am pretty sure he knows | 12:29 |
| RST38h | Well, all my apps have been recompiled to work around this problem, so I can't test | 12:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | tbf++ | 12:29 |
| RST38h | timeless: no, you debug it folks | 12:29 |
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| * RST38h has stuff to debug | 12:30 | |
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| PaulFertser | RST38h: be careful, you're talking against "the community" now, wasting everyone's time. | 12:30 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes avs | 12:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | we need to talk; lunch? | 12:30 |
| woglinde | zaheerm, tbf was only joke | 12:30 |
| johnx | so, all the PA modules are open source, right? | 12:30 |
| woglinde | johny jo | 12:31 |
| woglinde | args johnx | 12:31 |
| woglinde | if there isnt a hidden dsp | 12:31 |
| woglinde | modul | 12:31 |
| RST38h | Ok, the PA bug is still very much present in 42.11 | 12:31 |
| pupnik | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/pulseaudio/ | 12:31 |
| RST38h | So, yes, your sales N900 device can hang any moment | 12:31 |
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| * RST38h just hung his | 12:32 | |
| johnx | pupnik, thanks. was being lazy :) | 12:32 |
| RST38h | johnx: I actually traced down the problem to PA thread hanging waiting for some resource | 12:32 |
| RST38h | jahnx: It never proceeds so when you shut PA down and wait for the thread to finish, you hang | 12:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, your "hang" bug? or the "high CPU usage" bug? | 12:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: the hang one | 12:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: I suspect high cpu usage is not a bug :) | 12:33 |
| johnx | intended to keep your hands warm in a Finnish winter? :P | 12:33 |
| ShadowJK | I remember mentioning last year pulseaudio chewing through 15% CPU on my 2.83GHz quad-core, and everyone ignored me :-) | 12:33 |
| tbf | johnx: RST38h: i wonder what happens if you "just" install PA from upstream | 12:33 |
| johnx | tbf, horrible breakage | 12:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: Intended to keep lennart's megalomania satisfied :) | 12:34 |
| johnx | tbf, http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/pulseaudio/debian/patches/ | 12:34 |
| RST38h | tbf: It breaks. Why? | 12:34 |
| xorAxAx | red: hi, are you experiencing the compression when using headphones? | 12:34 |
| tbf | johnx: RST38h: because of the big amount of patches | 12:34 |
| tbf | johnx: RST38h: wonder if one of the pack ports is not proper.... | 12:34 |
| johnx | tbf, the big amount of patches and the modules labeled "nokia-" | 12:34 |
| ShadowJK | xorAxAx, he was using headphone -> carstereo. He mentioned many other devices with which the same setup didn't result in compression | 12:35 |
| tbf | ...or if lennart fixed those issues upstream already and a backport is missing | 12:35 |
| RST38h | tbf: Nokia's hw is so different from the basic PC hw, that I doubt it matters | 12:35 |
| xorAxAx | ShadowJK: well, it might be a misadaptation of the output | 12:35 |
| RST38h | tbf: Although the hangup bug does look pretty generic | 12:35 |
| xorAxAx | red: you should try with headphones only | 12:35 |
| tbf | RST38h: so if you know the place where it happens you might want to compare with upstream | 12:36 |
| RST38h | tbf: I just want it to work. | 12:36 |
| ShadowJK | there's also another known bug in pulseaudio (was upstream for ages and still plagues distros) where pausing causes hangs :-) | 12:36 |
| pupnik | rst38h ali1234 what do you guys say to do if my game needs more cpu while streaming sound | 12:36 |
| RST38h | tbf: Have done some investigation, as a courtesy, and to satisfy academic curiosity | 12:36 |
| RST38h | tbf: But I am definitely NOT the right guy to fix this | 12:36 |
| pupnik | no resampling, no eq, and maybe no mixing | 12:37 |
| tbf | RST38h: did you report your findings at bugs.maemo.org at least? | 12:37 |
| RST38h | pupnik: I would start by using the native sampling rate | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm I see. dmix *is* broken. And PA is super | 12:37 |
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| pupnik | sure | 12:37 |
| ShadowJK | there's eq? | 12:37 |
| tbf | (to give some PA hackers a chance to fix it?) | 12:38 |
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| ShadowJK | eq probably uses loads of CPU :) | 12:38 |
| pupnik | yes | 12:38 |
| RST38h | tbf; Of course | 12:38 |
| pupnik | yes | 12:38 |
| tbf | ok | 12:38 |
| ShadowJK | I remember that was like 10-20% on a P3-733MHz, which is way faster than n900 cpu | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | quite a smart bunch of people | 12:38 |
| red | xorAxAx: I use a 3,5mm jack to connect the phone to different audio devices and experience it that way. I do not use the phones own speakers to play back anything really. I'll test around how using just headphones in the 3,5mm jack when i get to home | 12:38 |
| red | and 100% sure the devices I plug it in are not responsible for the compression | 12:39 |
| go1dfish | anyone figure out TCP streams on pulseaudio on n900 yet? | 12:39 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Basically, you want to spare this feeble attempt at audio framework as much work as you can | 12:39 |
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| xorAxAx | red: ah, ok | 12:39 |
| RST38h | pupnik: I.e. native sampling rate, native sample format, etc | 12:39 |
| xorAxAx | red: sounds like a real bugger, file a bug! | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: if you have stack traces + a rough set of steps to reproduce | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | you can file a bug | 12:40 |
| RST38h | 1. I filed the bug already | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | url? | 12:40 |
| RST38h | 2. I do not have stack traces (do not be silly) | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | why don't you have stack traces? | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | getting a core file is not hard | 12:40 |
| RST38h | 3. There is no crash, just a hangup | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | sure, you can create a core file from a running process | 12:41 |
| * RST38h sighs | 12:41 | |
| timeless_mbp | cores are a convenient format for transmitting data about a process | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | they don't have to be from when the process *dies* | 12:41 |
| red | xorAxAx: I guess I will, but I think I'll try to get "hard" evidence about it. Record the fluctuations in dynamic range via some software and show comparison of audio graph | 12:41 |
| RST38h | Behold bug #5524 | 12:41 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524 program hangs on exit when media player is playing music | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | (gdb) help gcore | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Save a core file with the current state of the debugged process. | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Argument is optional filename. Default filename is 'core.<process_id>'. | 12:41 |
| johnx | red, that would be totally awesome | 12:41 |
| xorAxAx | red: good idea ... probably calculate modulation and modulate white noise with it | 12:42 |
| johnx | I'd really be interested. For now I'll catch some sleep though | 12:42 |
| xorAxAx | calculate compression | 12:42 |
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| xorAxAx | then you can listen to the compression directly | 12:42 |
| red | that goes out of my area of expertise again :P | 12:42 |
| pupnik | cdu johnx | 12:42 |
| xorAxAx | i could do it if you give me the source and the target file | 12:42 |
| xorAxAx | (or i could try :)) | 12:42 |
| red | I was merely thinking of screenshotting the clean signal graph in goldwave and overlapping it on the played back signal same way | 12:43 |
| RST38h | Actually, the beef is here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524#c16 | 12:43 |
| povbot | Bug 5524: program hangs on exit when media player is playing music | 12:43 |
| pupnik | ty | 12:43 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 12:43 | |
| timeless_mbp | that bug got lost internally a month ago (roughly) | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | and it was never going anywhere usefully | 12:44 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 12:44 | |
| RST38h | Well, as I said, losing bugs and not fixing them is not my problem | 12:44 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 12:44 | |
| timeless_mbp | indeed | 12:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | that sucks | 12:44 |
| RST38h | I am not making money selling Maemo devices, your employer is | 12:44 |
| woglinde | rst *g* | 12:44 |
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| woglinde | jo hrw | 12:45 |
| hrw | morning | 12:45 |
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| RST38h | If you REALLY want me to fix it for you, I am available for consulting and yes, you will have to show the complete source code, under NDA if required | 12:46 |
| hrw | did someone here sent back DDP device for replacement? | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: i certainly haven't heard anyone mention doing that | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | (you asked yesterday) | 12:48 |
| hrw | ok | 12:48 |
| pupnik | [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Connection refused | 12:48 |
| woglinde | *g* | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: so eero remembers the bug, he thinks there's some bug internally that's fixed | 12:48 |
| pupnik | so alsa is using pulse as hw backend? | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly the bug you referenced is tied to an internal bug that got lost, he'll poke that bug hopefully today | 12:49 |
| pupnik | not other way around? | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: i think it's kinda alsa-lib uses pulse uses alsa-hw | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'm not certain | 12:49 |
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| woglinde | I hate this linker bug | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | linux audio is um... a mess | 12:49 |
| pupnik | ok that makes sense | 12:49 |
| pupnik | that s what i see | 12:50 |
| pupnik | ty | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a nice graphic of linux audio | 12:50 |
| RST38h | timeless: Do check if it has been fixed before or after 42.11 | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png | 12:50 |
| redeeman | which is ofcourse all irelelvant and useless | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so a usual setup would look like app->alsa2PA->PAserver->PA2alsa-hwdriver | 12:51 |
| redeeman | timeless_mbp: that graph is made by a moron | 12:51 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: no, the internal bug was asking about the first update post sales | 12:51 |
| pupnik | ty DocScrutinizer51 | 12:51 |
| RST38h | Or, to make things easier, simply start playing music in the player, then run some game (fMSX or Speccy will do too) and try exiting it | 12:51 |
| RST38h | If it hangs, the bug is still there | 12:51 |
| timeless_mbp | redeeman: now now, insulting people is never polite | 12:51 |
| redeeman | timeless_mbp: i could create 10 different pieces of software for osx, or windows, and make a graph that looks the same | 12:51 |
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| ShadowJK | the default alsa device is probably set to the alsa pulse plugin.. it's like that on fedora | 12:52 |
| redeeman | that specific graph is made by adobes linux guy to try and get noobs to think its not their fault adobes software suck | 12:52 |
| * timeless_mbp can't remember where the bigger map is | 12:53 | |
| redeeman | we are literally talking about a guy that openly admitted he spent a year trying to fix a problem in flash where it tried to dlopen libasound.so which is a symlink that only exists on some distributions | 12:53 |
| redeeman | the fact that he would admit such a thing on his blog tells EVERYTHING | 12:53 |
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| andre__ | well, that graph is misleading, as the arrows have several meanings | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: they don't mean "sends data to" ? | 12:54 |
| redeeman | they mean CAN send data to | 12:54 |
| ShadowJK | "can talk to" | 12:54 |
| redeeman | if someone chooses to configure it like done there, he/she is obviously retarded | 12:54 |
| andre__ | yeah, "can". exactly | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | redeeman: the graph was never a "a user will do this" | 12:55 |
| ali1234 | the only way you could end up with that mess is if you compiled gentoo with all possible use flags :) | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | it was "these paths independently exist" | 12:55 |
| redeeman | timeless_mbp: the graph is "this is why we're having difficulties making audio work in flash!! its not our fault!!!oneoneone" | 12:55 |
| suihkulokki | redeeman: regardless of who made the graph, anyone claiming linux audio stack is innocent to flash audio problems is a delusion fanboy | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | redeeman: it is not | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | the graph is "we at flash were recommended to use at various times each of the boxes in the picture" | 12:56 |
| timeless_mbp | "not all boxes exist on all computers" | 12:56 |
| redeeman | suihkulokki: yeah right, it only works for everyone else, surely adobe is having some magical requirements, all they had to do was support alsa | 12:56 |
| ShadowJK | did they move audio to libflashsupport eventually? | 12:56 |
| redeeman | yes | 12:56 |
| timeless_mbp | redeeman: from the graph, it sounds like you can't get to Firewire Audio from Alsa :) | 12:56 |
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| ShadowJK | because it seems to use pulseaudio perfectly on my fedora box | 12:57 |
| redeeman | timeless_mbp: that is true, fortunately that is irellevant | 12:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | because no one would ever want to use firewire audio w/ a flash player? | 12:57 |
| redeeman | that is so | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | while watching a streaming video on a projection screen? | 12:57 |
| redeeman | i even use firewire audio myself | 12:57 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, the reality is worse, alsa in reality consists of 2-3 boxes there.. | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: i know | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't find the better map | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | google hates me | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ouch | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | my search found a graphic i published | 12:59 |
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| redeeman | the graph is also made by someone that doesn't know what they're doing | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | that sucks | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | redeeman: no | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | he states very clearly what he was doing in the document | 12:59 |
| redeeman | because they appear to be talking about individual libraries | 12:59 |
| redeeman | which is completely irellevant | 12:59 |
| redeeman | who cares if some specific daemon uses some library | 12:59 |
| * timeless_mbp sigh | 12:59 | |
| redeeman | for instance jack/ffado | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | go read the text | 12:59 |
| redeeman | the graph says it all | 12:59 |
| redeeman | and his earlier blog posts even more | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | the graph doesn't say "your linux system is configured like this" | 13:00 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 13:00 | |
| ali1234 | the really funny thing about the graph is all that shit will happily coexist together, that is until flash opens the sound card directly with alsa, and blocks everything else | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 13:00 |
| redeeman | so at some point, someone asked adobe to try and poke ffado directly? | 13:00 |
| * joerg_42 sighs as well | 13:01 | |
| ShadowJK | it was posted by mike, he was/is an ffmpeg developer too :-) | 13:01 |
| _berto_ | what's up with fremantle extras-devel? I uploaded vagalume yesterday but I can't see it there | 13:03 |
| _berto_ | and jrocha is having the same problem with seriesfinale | 13:03 |
| ShadowJK | I think people complained all weekend that stuff wasn't moving from autobuilder to repos? | 13:03 |
| jrocha | and I uploaded mine a few days ago now | 13:03 |
| ShadowJK | It's clearly a conspiracy against opensource developers who cannot stand working on weekdays when the daystar is up ;) | 13:04 |
| jrocha | ShadowJK, lol | 13:04 |
| _berto_ | lol | 13:04 |
| ShadowJK | You know what the best invention wrt flash is? nspluginviewer. It's awesome, when flash crashes, it doesn't take firefox with it. | 13:05 |
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| redeeman | ShadowJK: no, the best part is not having flash | 13:05 |
| redeeman | its truly great | 13:05 |
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| ShadowJK | but what if I want to wach live streaming starcrafts from korea | 13:07 |
| ruskie | redeeman, agreed ;) | 13:07 |
| pupnik | i am looking at possibility to write to /dev/snd/ device from an application. has anyone done this yet? | 13:11 |
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| ShadowJK | pupnik, it's not sensible | 13:12 |
| pupnik | possibly statically compiling-in alsa so it can see the hwdevice instead of just pulse | 13:12 |
| pupnik | can you tell me why? | 13:12 |
| pupnik | i dont want to waste my time | 13:12 |
| ShadowJK | basically you have to copy the code from alsa-lib that knows how to talk to the kernel part of alsa? | 13:12 |
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| ShadowJK | Have you tried asking alsa for hw:0.0 or whatever the syntax was... | 13:13 |
| ShadowJK | instead of default device, which is probably some pulse plugin | 13:13 |
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| pupnik | wow, /dev/.udev/.db | 13:17 |
| johnx | it's *really* hidden | 13:17 |
| pupnik | i don't see a asound.conf? | 13:18 |
| johnx | pupnik, I think pulseaudio has alsa open in blocking mode, so you'd need to kill it first (which will cause it to try and respawn) | 13:18 |
| ShadowJK | mplayer seems to open hw:0,0 though I hear no sound.. possibly mixer settings need adjusting (alsamixer -c 0) | 13:18 |
| pupnik | yes i can't get pulseaudio to not respawn even if i tell it not to in config | 13:18 |
| ShadowJK | (mplayer opens 'default' by default) | 13:18 |
| pupnik | alsamixer only knows pulse mixer device | 13:19 |
| pupnik | ok | 13:19 |
| ShadowJK | oh, if I plug in headphones I hear it :-) | 13:19 |
| ShadowJK | and pulseaudio isn't showing up in top, at all | 13:19 |
| redeeman | strange | 13:20 |
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| pupnik | mplayer -ao alsa:device=hw=0,0 is not complaining | 13:20 |
| jiajia | hello mastrer | 13:20 |
| jiajia | how is ur food | 13:20 |
| jiajia | haha | 13:20 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik, -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0 | 13:21 |
| pupnik | oops ta | 13:21 |
| ShadowJK | mplayer uses , for itself | 13:21 |
| ShadowJK | MPlayer playing 2 channel 44.1kHz FLAC straight to alsa hw:0,0 mplayer is using 4188 kbytes of ram, about 4-5% of CPU. | 13:22 |
| ShadowJK | total cpu usage hovering around 9% USR 2% SYS | 13:23 |
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| pupnik | awesome ShadowJK | 13:24 |
| pupnik | working here too | 13:24 |
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| pupnik | playing from speaker too | 13:25 |
| ShadowJK | MPlayer playing the same file, through alsa default device. mplayer is using 4520 kbytes of ram, 5-6% CPU. pulseaudio at 4660 kbytes of ram, 10% CPU. Total cpu use 18% USR, 4% SYS | 13:25 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: you see ^^^ probably community sometimes should think about reasoning for some technical decisions to be able to provide their users with a choice. Not everyone needs seamless sound rerouting between the internal "soundcard" and the BT headset. | 13:25 |
| PaulFertser | But many people would like to lower the power consumption a bit along with having a few more cpu cycles for something useful. | 13:25 |
| _berto_ | ShadowJK: the thing is that the diablo/chinook autobuilder works fine | 13:26 |
| pupnik | look at this, PaulFertser - we have the awesome ability to do exactly what i wanted - oops reboot | 13:26 |
| _berto_ | all my packages are in extras except the one for fremantle, which hasn't even reached extras-devel | 13:26 |
| pupnik | lol | 13:26 |
| ShadowJK | pulseaudio on my 2830 MHz quad-core computer is using 3% CPU. Even if you just scale down the clockspeed, the n900 pulseaudio becomes relatively lean on cpu. | 13:26 |
| ruskie | why can't pulse be fixed to reduce the cycles? | 13:26 |
| pupnik | ir is a cadillac system | 13:27 |
| pupnik | it | 13:27 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, no argument. I mentioned the same thing more than an hour ago, but honestly I don't care enough to actually go anywhere with it | 13:27 |
| ShadowJK | ruskie, apparently it's doing useful work | 13:27 |
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| pupnik | right | 13:27 |
| ruskie | define usefull? | 13:27 |
| pupnik | routing audio to different deevices with different needs | 13:27 |
| zaheerm | echo cancellation | 13:27 |
| ali1234 | software mixing and eq | 13:28 |
| ShadowJK | when playing with mplayer direct to hw:0.0 incoming calls would be completely silent, no other sounds can play | 13:28 |
| zaheerm | per-app volume control | 13:28 |
| pupnik | this is a wonderful happy day :) thank you ShadowJK | 13:28 |
| woglinde | *g* | 13:29 |
| woglinde | pupnik I started qtnx stuff | 13:29 |
| ShadowJK | I wouldn't put direct alsa access in anything in extras, it's likely to break the phone app for sure :) | 13:29 |
| johnx | so how much overhead would dmix add to things? | 13:29 |
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| woglinde | but its hard because of the borken linkers in sdk | 13:29 |
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| PaulFertser | johnx: i just wanted to highlight i was treated unfairly by "the community" this time. My question was valid and had enough meaning :| | 13:29 |
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| ShadowJK | johnx, about the same iirc, but it's less visible because it gets added to mplayer's (and other programs') cpu use | 13:29 |
| woglinde | PaulFertser clam down | 13:30 |
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| woglinde | you dont get anything from it | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | guys. NO app should access hw:0.0 directly | 13:30 |
| woglinde | and I agree with you | 13:30 |
| pupnik | i am getting speaker playback with no /usr/bin/pulseaudio present at all :)) | 13:30 |
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| zaheerm | pupnik, forget phone calls then | 13:31 |
| pupnik | woglinde: i will buy you a nice dinner or equivalent | 13:31 |
| pupnik | zaheerm: yeah i might need to mention that the game will shutdown some other things | 13:31 |
| RST38h | How do you get treated by the community btw? | 13:32 |
| RST38h | Is it like getting your finger caught in a door? =) | 13:32 |
| pupnik | but i am so impressed now with nokia at the freedom to hit alsa. thanks nokia. | 13:32 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik, maybe make it an option | 13:32 |
| pupnik | yep | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: getting a finger stuck in a nokian door is called community commitment | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | even using OSS /dev/dsp is preferrable to hw:0.0 | 13:32 |
| RST38h | Sts: Oh | 13:32 |
| RST38h | Using /dev/dsp is preferable to pretty much everything else | 13:33 |
| RST38h | Except maybe for /dev/audio | 13:33 |
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| siriusnova | hello | 13:33 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, it blocks just as good as /dev/dsp | 13:33 |
| siriusnova | whats new to maemo world | 13:33 |
| siriusnova | apps wise :D | 13:33 |
| pupnik | 25% more performance in emulators just now | 13:34 |
| woglinde | pupnik without pulse? | 13:34 |
| pupnik | yep | 13:34 |
| woglinde | cool | 13:34 |
| siriusnova | what | 13:34 |
| siriusnova | whats this? | 13:34 |
| siriusnova | :) | 13:34 |
| valdyn | is maemo pulse using the dsp for mixing or the arm cpu? | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: exactly :-P Even better than /dev/dsp if you got alsa OSS compatibiöity layer configured correctly | 13:35 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik, what happens if you call? :-) | 13:35 |
| ali1234 | pupnik: did you get psx4all yet? | 13:35 |
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| pupnik | had it for a year or so, never got it built ali1234 | 13:35 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, the oss compatibility layer doesn't always work properly... | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: I know | 13:35 |
| pupnik | ali1234: where can i follow your work? | 13:35 |
| ShadowJK | f.ex mplayer directly accessing hw:0,0 is often better than through oss /dev/dsp alsa emu | 13:36 |
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| ShadowJK | It's still better than alsa-pulse-alsa chain though | 13:36 |
| ali1234 | pupnik: git://ali1234.homelinux.net/psx4all.git | 13:36 |
| ShadowJK | in terms of performance and information lost | 13:36 |
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| valdyn | ShadowJK: hmm? mplayer isnt using the pulse output? | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I suggest dmix:'plughw:0.0' nevertheless | 13:37 |
| ShadowJK | dunno about mplayer in extras-devel | 13:37 |
| ShadowJK | I built mine with diablo sdk, so no pulse support | 13:37 |
| ShadowJK | the default mplayer config prioritizes alsa over pulse too | 13:38 |
| pupnik | i am using mplayer from -devel | 13:38 |
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| valdyn | looking at the pulse config in the scratchbox pulse is configured to use a lot of cpu | 13:39 |
| valdyn | where i doubt that even giving audible benefit, but what do i know | 13:39 |
| valdyn | maybe its different on the n900 though, i dont have one | 13:40 |
| ShadowJK | need oprofile to figure out where the cpu is spent :) | 13:40 |
| * pupnik gets out the acme magnet and points it at spain | 13:40 | |
| valdyn | resample-method = speex-fixed-2 | 13:41 |
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| pupnik | no, not brazil | 13:42 |
| ali1234 | i recently tried with 48khz vs 44.1khz in SDL, and there was no difference in CPU usage (around 10% for both) | 13:42 |
| valdyn | ali1234: try a cheaper mixer, and less realtime | 13:43 |
| ali1234 | the point is using native sample rate is supposed to use less CPU | 13:43 |
| ali1234 | but in my case it didn't | 13:43 |
| ali1234 | but i suspect a bug a psx4all tbh | 13:43 |
| ali1234 | talk about spaghetti code. i wouldn't be surprised if the sample rate variable i changed never actually gets used | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aiui PA *always* resamples | 13:45 |
| ali1234 | well if that's true, it sucks | 13:46 |
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| woglinde | hm so the dsp isnt used in n900 for sound? | 13:46 |
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| ruskie | hmm so couldn't pa modules be optimised to do all that but at a fraction of the cpu time they need now? | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | woglinde: for sure not for mixing | 13:48 |
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| woglinde | time for oprofile | 13:49 |
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| woglinde | hm and let me guess on beagleboard its the same problem too | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well. Maybe they implemented a hw-muxer D/A via the DSP | 13:51 |
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| woglinde | who? | 13:51 |
| hrw | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/files/2009/12/IMG_4459.JPG | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nokia | 13:51 |
| dl9pf | wasn't that only for 2-3 codecs | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or whoever coded the "card" driver | 13:52 |
| hrw | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/files/2009/12/IMG_4459.JPG shows bad pixels group on my n900 | 13:52 |
| pupnik | Wing Commander is now totally playable. | 13:53 |
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| woglinde | pupnik cool | 13:53 |
| ali1234 | pupnik: on what emulator? | 13:53 |
| pupnik | dosbox | 13:53 |
| ali1234 | i see | 13:53 |
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| ali1234 | port UAE, it has better games :P | 13:53 |
| pupnik | double the framerate at least | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | hrw: http://www.klc.fi/en/products.php?p=44466a | 13:54 |
| pupnik | pulse was killing the cpu cache | 13:54 |
| nomis | hrw: huh, these look weird. Shouldn't defective pixels be permanently on (or permanently off) 100%? | 13:54 |
| ali1234 | orly? | 13:54 |
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| pupnik | i am guessing | 13:54 |
| ali1234 | psx4all likes to kill the cpu cache too, as part of the dynarec | 13:54 |
| pupnik | hehe | 13:54 |
| ali1234 | it actually manually clears it regularly | 13:54 |
| pupnik | that might be something to test, brb | 13:54 |
| hrw | nomis: or pernament lit or subcolored etc | 13:55 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Have you simply turned the sound off? | 13:55 |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: one week did not finished - I am sending it to DDP | 13:55 |
| hrw | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/14/sending-n900-back-to-nokia/ | 13:56 |
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| ali1234 | RST38h: no he's using alsa directly now (and blocking all other apps from making sound in the process) | 13:56 |
| RST38h | ah | 13:57 |
| RST38h | ali: sounds good to me | 13:57 |
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| * RST38h failed to use alsa on fremantle though | 13:57 | |
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| ali1234 | i tried disabling sound completely, it did not give any magical 25% speed up for me :) | 13:57 |
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| pupnik | different emu, different results | 13:57 |
| pupnik | i should not have spoken so carelessly | 13:57 |
| ali1234 | true | 13:58 |
| pupnik | this is like a weight off shoulders. i feel 5 pounds lighter. | 13:58 |
| * SpeedEvil feels 20 pounds lighter. | 13:59 | |
| SpeedEvil | diet++ | 13:59 |
| * RST38h should try it as well | 13:59 | |
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| woglinde | hms | 14:07 |
| woglinde | autobuilder please copy faster my libs | 14:07 |
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| derf | woglinde: It's still broken, AFAICT. | 14:09 |
| derf | I've been waiting two days. | 14:10 |
| kwek | hey.. im trying to connect sip over openvpn but it seems that an old bug is still active on maemo 5 where the sip program binds itself on the wlan ip. | 14:10 |
| kwek | On the n800 there is workaround setting local-ip-address using mc-account but that program doesnt exist on the n900.. Any ideas? bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1860 | 14:10 |
| povbot | Bug 1860: Won't pass through VPN | 14:10 |
| jl_gene | ~log | 14:10 |
| infobot | somebody said log was http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/ for #openmoko-cdevel only. Maybe you meant "~logs" ? | 14:10 |
| _berto_ | derf: but it works for maemo <= 4 | 14:10 |
| derf | _berto_: That's... less than helpful. | 14:10 |
| woglinde | ~seen x-fade | 14:11 |
| infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo (2d 14h 16m 57s), last said: 'irssi is in extras-testing'. | 14:11 |
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| jl_gene | ~logs | 14:18 |
| infobot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. | 14:18 |
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| redeeman | http://www.strandreports.com/sw4031.asp | 14:24 |
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| wazd_n800 | re-heya | 14:29 |
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| t_s_o | ugh, kinda worriesome that the thing i do most on my tablet lately is freecell... | 14:32 |
| adeus | like most on the pc | 14:32 |
| t_s_o | :P | 14:32 |
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| * VDVsx yawns | 14:35 | |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, mooning :) | 14:36 |
| VDVsx | wazd_n800, morning :) | 14:36 |
| Jaffa | lo VDVsx | 14:36 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, hey | 14:37 |
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| mece | Can someone point me to some information on icons in maemo5? I thought i might make an icon for a program. | 14:38 |
| wazd_n800 | mece, well, they are .pngs) | 14:39 |
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| Ceron | is it safe to install quake3 from | 14:40 |
| Ceron | devel-extras :\ | 14:40 |
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| mece | any particular sizes? | 14:41 |
| Ceron | im afraid il brick the phone :O | 14:41 |
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| mece | Ceron didn't brick mine. You need the data files. Open arena works straight away. | 14:41 |
| Ceron | could someone tell me if installing quake3 on the phone is safe? | 14:41 |
| ruskie | Ceron, you can always reflash :) | 14:41 |
| Ceron | mece: got any instructions | 14:41 |
| wazd_n800 | mece, 64x64, 48x48 | 14:41 |
| Ceron | ruskie: i dont want to reflash it >:( | 14:41 |
| Ceron | i got work stuff on it | 14:41 |
| mece | wazd_n800, thanks | 14:41 |
| ruskie | wazd_n800, probably 32x32 as well ? | 14:41 |
| SinofEnvy | [13:24:50] <redeeman> http://www.strandreports.com/sw4031.asp | 14:41 |
| SinofEnvy | I think that's a great post | 14:42 |
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| mece | Ceron, well as I said I've had no problems with q3 or open arena. | 14:42 |
| Ceron | mece: tell me what i need :P | 14:42 |
| Ceron | to do | 14:42 |
| mece | Ceron, you need Quake 3 | 14:42 |
| wazd_n800 | ruskie, don't thiink that maemo 5 uses it | 14:42 |
| mece | for open arena you need nothing besides an N900 | 14:42 |
| SinofEnvy | I had an iphone (I wasn't as fanatic as described in the post, I quickly saw the shortcomings, hence when the N900 came out and it was all opensource and linux-y and all that I nerdgasmed) but it all sounds very familiar. when I got my N900, I spoke to a friend who has an iphone and he kept going on about how the iphone was superior, had a "sharper screen" etc etc | 14:43 |
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| Ceron | mece: aint it freeware all | 14:43 |
| Ceron | can i get it all from the repos? | 14:43 |
| Ceron | install quake3 from repository | 14:43 |
| ruskie | SinofEnvy, lol... did he actually look at the N900? | 14:44 |
| wazd_n800 | ceron, q3 data-files aren't free | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | iPhone sharper screen ... muhahahahaaaa | 14:45 |
| derf | They have fewer pixels so you can see the nice, sharp edges between each one. | 14:45 |
| mece | Ceron, you can get the demo version data files here: http://www.idsoftware.com/games/quake/quake3-arena/index.php?game_section=demo | 14:45 |
| SinofEnvy | ruskie, yes... but besides the fact that he's a pretty big asshat in general and isn't that technologically inclined, he was completely relucant to reason | 14:46 |
| SinofEnvy | reluctant* | 14:46 |
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| wazd_n800 | HTC Nexus 1 approved by FCC | 14:47 |
| SinofEnvy | yeah, I said, "you do realize the N900's resolution is higher?" "yeah, but the iphone still has a sharper screen" "uh, do you know what resolution ENTAILS?" "yeah, but the iphone still has a better screen" | 14:47 |
| siriusnov | So any new apps out for the N900? | 14:47 |
| SinofEnvy | ...what | 14:47 |
| wazd_n800 | Eldar fails twice a day | 14:47 |
| mece | Ceron, install quake from repository, copy the pak0.pk3 from the demoq3 directory where you put the demo, to your /home/user/baseq3/ directory on the phone. | 14:48 |
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| wazd_n800 | siriusnov, have you made any recently? | 14:48 |
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| siriusnov | well | 14:48 |
| siriusnov | i ported an app | 14:48 |
| siriusnov | :p | 14:48 |
| siriusnov | ircII | 14:48 |
| siriusnov | heh | 14:48 |
| siriusnov | more like recompiled :> | 14:48 |
| mece | siriusnov, l33t you is. | 14:48 |
| siriusnov | i know im amazing | 14:48 |
| siriusnov | ;) | 14:48 |
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| wazd_n800 | siriusnov, most developers are putting a bit more effort in porting, that's why the process is not so fast | 14:49 |
| siriusnov | i know | 14:50 |
| siriusnov | anyone tried any N800 apps | 14:50 |
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| Ceron | mece: is it safe | 14:50 |
| mece | Ceron, Open Arena is a free game using the Q3 engine. You can download that complete game from the repository. It's 300Mb. | 14:50 |
| Ceron | to put it in home user? | 14:50 |
| mece | Ceron, well it worked for me without problems. | 14:50 |
| Ceron | someone said it should be in /opt/ | 14:50 |
| Ceron | everything :O | 14:50 |
| Ceron | its not optified! | 14:51 |
| derf | /home and /opt are on the same partition. | 14:51 |
| mece | Ceron, /home/user is the same partition as /opt, since /opt is actually /home/opt | 14:51 |
| derf | It's a mess, but it's not unsafe. | 14:51 |
| derf | Half the N900 packages seem to be a mess, so this is no different. | 14:51 |
| mece | Ceron, Open Arena is Optified. | 14:51 |
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| flux | heh, open arena takes 300M or so, it wouldn't fit to the root partition in any case :) | 14:52 |
| Ceron | does open arena support multiplayer with pc gamers? | 14:52 |
| Ceron | :D | 14:52 |
| * cehteh wonders if that would be one reason to reject packages from apples app-store "No we dont sell your crap" :P | 14:52 | |
| redeeman | hmm maemo.org is still damn slow | 14:52 |
| Ceron | are there serverlists on open arena | 14:53 |
| Ceron | so i wont hafto play against bots | 14:53 |
| pupnik | you probably dont want to play vs pc users | 14:53 |
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| PolarFox | They would be so pwnd | 14:54 |
| jeremiah | ping RST38h | 14:54 |
| VDVsx | lardman|gone, ping | 14:54 |
| wazd_n800 | qwerty12, ping | 14:56 |
| wazd_n800 | let's ping each other :D | 14:57 |
| ruskie | maybe someone will setup a n900-users only server ;) | 14:57 |
| wazd_n800 | ruskie, yeah, so I can burn you all easily :D | 14:57 |
| RST38h | jaremiah | 14:58 |
| RST38h | here you are | 14:59 |
| jeremiah | hi | 14:59 |
| jeremiah | I have been away | 14:59 |
| hrw | ~curse quim for way how he handle brainstorm related bugzilla bugs | 14:59 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, quim for way how he handle brainstorm related bugzilla bugs ! | 14:59 |
| wazd_n800 | RST38h, heya | 14:59 |
| jeremiah | Finally back where there is internet | 14:59 |
| hrw | bug 6852 | 14:59 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6852 No way to get notifications about changes in brainstorm | 14:59 |
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| hrw | quim responce: to track changes in brainstorm use brainstorm. | 14:59 |
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| VDVsx | hrw, there's a brainstorm for that :P | 15:00 |
| hrw | but there is no fucking way to track changes in brainstorm | 15:00 |
| hrw | VDVsx: I just wonder when I will end reporting bugs in maemo just because it becomes more and more waste of my time | 15:00 |
| VDVsx | hrw, that's not a bug,IMO | 15:01 |
| hrw | brainstorm now looks like product of teenager which got one day for coding and then moved to other stuff | 15:01 |
| VDVsx | hehe | 15:01 |
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| cosmo | they should implement flashing over bluetooth.. i've lost my cable somewhere | 15:02 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, Ii'll try to send you keynote and ps3 profiles today btw | 15:02 |
| VDVsx | hrw, you can suggest changes, there's threads at the ML and TMO about brainstorm | 15:02 |
| VDVsx | wazd_n800, thanks | 15:02 |
| wazd_n800 | cosmo, over ether :) | 15:02 |
| VDVsx | hrw, note that in part I agree with you | 15:03 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, anything else? want some icecream? :P | 15:03 |
| VDVsx | hrw, but we can try to improve things, at least | 15:03 |
| VDVsx | wazd_n800, ins't a bit cold for icecream ? | 15:03 |
| VDVsx | :P | 15:03 |
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| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, yeah, whooping -16C | 15:04 |
| hrw | VDVsx: anyway for some time I will be off from maemo tracking | 15:04 |
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| PaulFertser | wazd_n800: oh yeah, finally there's some normal winter weather here. | 15:06 |
| wazd_n800 | PaulFertser, kind of) | 15:07 |
| VDVsx | wazd_n800, bruuuu, that's a lot of cold, I'll died in the first second I put my feet in the street | 15:07 |
| VDVsx | lunch time, bbl | 15:07 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, hehe, welcome to mother russia :D | 15:07 |
| PaulFertser | VDVsx: and bring your bicycle along, let's have a ride. | 15:08 |
| wazd_n800 | PaulFertser, I'm gonna try to cycle tomorrow) | 15:09 |
| * ruskie is happy to have some normal winter weather here as well | 15:10 | |
| AndrewBlack | anyone been getting alot of unable to open file /usr/share/icons/hicolor/.icon-theme.cacheL file exists errors on like 30 things I´ve installed? | 15:12 |
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| woglinde | ~seen pupnik | 15:13 |
| infobot | pupnik is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 103 messages. Is idling for 20m 12s, last said: 'you probably dont want to play vs pc users'. | 15:13 |
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| wazd_n800 | ~seen qwerty12 | 15:14 |
| infobot | qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10d 18h 50m 44s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'. | 15:14 |
| ruskie | hmm anyone tried getting pavucontrol or some other volume control app onto the n900 yet? | 15:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ruskie: pshhhh, that's audio domain ;-) | 15:21 |
| ruskie | ??? | 15:21 |
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| pupnik | hows the fight woglinde | 15:26 |
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| Disconnect | oyd | 15:34 |
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| Disconnect | grr stupid colloquy grabbed focus :( | 15:35 |
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| pupnik | Jaffa: yo got a nice 480p mencoder line? | 15:45 |
| Jaffa | pupnik: tablet-encode -p n900 foo out.avi ;-) | 15:47 |
| woglinde | pupnik I have debs ready | 15:48 |
| woglinde | but not in fremantle, because aubuilder dont copies | 15:48 |
| jebba | pupnik: check the second script here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Encoding_Video | 15:48 |
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| pupnik | ahh ty | 15:49 |
| pupnik | woglinde: can i test? :) | 15:49 |
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| pupnik | ty jebba Jaffa | 15:50 |
| woglinde | pupnik yeah let me upload them | 15:50 |
| pupnik | wow, you prefer low bitrates jebba :) | 15:51 |
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| Jaffa | pupnik: There's also a '-hq' mode in tablet-encode now. That, two-pass and the `n900' preset look fantastic at 800x480 on an N900 from a 720p source. | 15:53 |
| pupnik | tjat | 15:53 |
| pupnik | wat i was hopin for ty | 15:53 |
| jebba | pupnik: i have only used that thing twice now. This morning I was like WTF am I using h264 and not theora? So probably going to re-do it too ;) | 15:54 |
| jebba | ya +2 pass... | 15:54 |
| woglinde | pupnik -> http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/heinold/nx/ | 15:54 |
| woglinde | I am off for half an hour | 15:54 |
| jebba | woglinde: are those all free? | 15:54 |
| jebba | free software? | 15:54 |
| woglinde | jebba jupp | 15:54 |
| jebba | you rule | 15:54 |
| pupnik | woglinde is St. Niklaus :) | 15:54 |
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| jebba | woglinde: http://jebba.blagblagblag.org/?p=191 :) | 15:55 |
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| woglinde | unfornatly neatx is much behind in features than x2go | 15:56 |
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| woglinde | and x2go breaks the protocol and only supports own client | 15:56 |
| woglinde | and the sourcecode of x2go client-qt is ugly | 15:56 |
| woglinde | okay till later | 15:56 |
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| redeeman | so.. should icons be copied to /usr/share/pixmaps/usr/share/icons/blabla or was there some place in /opt i can copy them? or does it respect the X-Icon-Path in the .desktop files? | 15:57 |
| jebba | redeeman: http://pastebin.ca/1714370 | 15:58 |
| woglinde | redeeman hm dont know if maemo-optify works with icons too | 15:58 |
| woglinde | so now I am really off | 15:59 |
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| jebba | that worked for me. Basically it puts them in /opt, but symlinks them under usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ | 15:59 |
| jebba | yes it doe. | 15:59 |
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| redeeman | erhm | 15:59 |
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| redeeman | jebba: what do you mean with "yes it does" ? | 15:59 |
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| jebba | maemo-optify works with icons | 16:00 |
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| jebba | check that pastebin for a working example of icons and .desktop file. I think you need them at those sizes too. | 16:01 |
| redeeman | so then i don't need to symlink them? | 16:01 |
| redeeman | the pastebin had some makefile stuff? | 16:01 |
| jebba | that is from debian/rules | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | /usr and /var should move to mmcblk0 eventually nevertheless | 16:01 |
| jebba | redeeman: i can put up the whole file if you want | 16:02 |
| redeeman | well if you symlink it then you cant really say that its optification | 16:02 |
| jebba | redeeman: that's what maemo-optify does for many things, such as /usr/bin. | 16:02 |
| jebba | just the symlinks are under /usr, but the files themselves are under /opt. Note, i based most of how i did it on VDVsx's supertux and i think he knows WTF he is doing. | 16:03 |
| AndrewBlack | I wish I could remember what computer I´m online with AndrewFBlack login lol | 16:04 |
| VDVsx | jebba, fyi supertux doesn't use symlinks, everthing is installed directly under /opt | 16:04 |
| VDVsx | and I recommend that for any app :P | 16:04 |
| VDVsx | maemo-optify is for lazy people ;) | 16:04 |
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| jebba | VDVsx: ah, thx for correction, sry. | 16:05 |
| VDVsx | jebba, If IIRC your rules files this is very easy to change there | 16:06 |
| jebba | see, i told you he knows wtf he's doing ;) | 16:06 |
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| jebba | i just put maemo-optify in the rules ;) probably just a PATH=/opt i imagine. | 16:06 |
| VDVsx | jebba, most cases yes | 16:07 |
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| jebba | by the way, now that you're here, uh, what's the run fast key in supertux? haah | 16:07 |
| VDVsx | jebba, easy and not need to call maemo-optify | 16:07 |
| jebba | ok, will do it that way now | 16:07 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: well if i only touch /opt, how do i get it to pick up my icons etc? | 16:07 |
| jebba | just ramping myself up on the correct ways and i thought it was maemo-optify, which is superfkn easy | 16:07 |
| VDVsx | jebba, depends in your kb setup, you can check that inside the game | 16:07 |
| VDVsx | jebba, by default is x | 16:08 |
| jebba | ya, it just said some keycode. "standard" keyboard here. | 16:08 |
| jebba | ok thx | 16:08 |
| jebba | will let my son know ;) | 16:08 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, well, the icons/symlinks to the icons must be in the rootfs | 16:08 |
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| VDVsx | redeeman, the menu icon only, of course | 16:09 |
| VDVsx | same for the desktop file | 16:09 |
| redeeman | they really should have included an additional search path | 16:10 |
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| VDVsx | redeeman, those are very small files, not a problem at all | 16:10 |
| redeeman | its more the annoyance :) | 16:10 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: can you also tell me the bare minimum i can get away with with icons? i've made a 64x64, should that just be placed directly in /usr/share/icons? its in png format | 16:11 |
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| VDVsx | redeeman, IMO that's not hard to do, and you only need to do this one time | 16:11 |
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| VDVsx | redeeman, maemo5 right ? | 16:12 |
| redeeman | yup on N900 | 16:12 |
| konttori_work_no | lizardo, can you verify that where is an optified version of python? What is the version number that should be optified? | 16:12 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, 64x64 -> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ | 16:12 |
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| xorAxAx | Jaffa: where can i get tablet-encode? | 16:12 |
| lizardo | konttori_work_no: the version in testing is already optified | 16:12 |
| lizardo | extras-testing, I mean | 16:12 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: where do the different sizes gets used? | 16:12 |
| VDVsx | red, 48x48 ->/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon/ | 16:12 |
| redeeman | 64 is desktop, so where else? | 16:12 |
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| konttori_work_no | lizardo, but not in the extras proper | 16:13 |
| Jaffa | xorAxAx: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html | 16:13 |
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| lizardo | konttori_work_no: yes... partially because there is some know bugs with it, see MB#6686 and M#6886 | 16:14 |
| lizardo | konttori_work_no: so I would suggest waiting for these bugs to be sorted out before pushing it to extras proper | 16:15 |
| konttori_work_no | so, are those blocker bugs? | 16:15 |
| konttori_work_no | When can we have those fixed? | 16:15 |
| xorAxAx | bug 6886 | 16:15 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6886 pymaemo-optify should not attempt to migrate files on upgrade | 16:15 |
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| konttori_work_no | I'm mainly interested, as python takes awfully lot of precious rootfs space | 16:15 |
| xorAxAx | bug 6686 | 16:16 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6686 pymaemo-optify breaks after install-uninstall cycle | 16:16 |
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| lizardo | konttori_work_no: sure , we are already taking a look on both, but I can't say yet the exact timeline, but it will be for sure ASAP due to the priority of the bug | 16:16 |
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| xorAxAx | Jaffa: is there a repo with it in it? | 16:17 |
| konttori_work_no | lizardo, 6686 is fixed, (but not released?) | 16:17 |
| konttori_work_no | so, you have only one to fix? | 16:17 |
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| redeeman | VDVsx: do i need 48x48? im only really interrested in having icon on the "desktop" | 16:17 |
| lizardo | konttori_work_no: yes, but the other bug is quite important and needs to be fixed before packages hit extras (IMHO) | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | VDVsx: which time in system init /home gets mounted? | 16:17 |
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| Jaffa | xorAxAx: It runs on the desktop. There is a Debian package: http://www.debian-multimedia.org/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/package/tablet-encode.php | 16:18 |
| lopz | hi :I | 16:18 |
| Jaffa | xorAxAx: Alternatively, just unpack the tarball & run it. | 16:18 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: i want the repo on my desktop | 16:18 |
| xorAxAx | for automatical upgrade | 16:19 |
| xorAxAx | s | 16:19 |
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| konttori_work_no | lizardo, thanks! And good luck with it! | 16:19 |
| jebba | VDVsx: thx, that was pretty painless. just as easy as maemo-optify. I suppose the maemo-optify would just be good for apps that don't cooperate with $DESTDIRs or something. | 16:20 |
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| GAN900 | Ugh, missed DHL by all of 5 seconds. | 16:20 |
| X-Fade | lol ;) | 16:20 |
| GAN900 | Those guys don't wait around. | 16:21 |
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| VDVsx | redeeman, actually I can remember any other place where these icons are used, probably is legacy stuff from maemo4, better check the docs, I'm not a encyclopedia of maemo, that's qwerty12 :P | 16:21 |
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| Ceron | offtopic question, anyone know of a cheap ddwrt capable wlan router | 16:23 |
| hrw | question: where I can find out which exactly GCC/Glibc/binutils combo is used for maemo5? | 16:23 |
| woglinde | re | 16:23 |
| woglinde | x-fade!!!!!!!!!! | 16:23 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: ok, got it from the multimedia repo | 16:23 |
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| X-Fade | woglinde: hi | 16:23 |
| woglinde | x-fade did you already fix the autobuilder for fremantle? | 16:23 |
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| woglinde | it dont copies the packages in place | 16:24 |
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| X-Fade | woglinde: looking at it. Which packages exactly? | 16:24 |
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| woglinde | x-fade all since friday | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | btw, this always happens when I'm traveling. Don't know why :) | 16:24 |
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| woglinde | maybe a problem with the garage failure | 16:25 |
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| X-Fade | woglinde: I see that a lot of packages now show up in the packages interface. Which means they are in the repo. | 16:26 |
| jebba | flatzebra_0.1.3-2/ is an example of one that isn't making it over for about 7 hours now. X-Fade. Build times are reasonable now though :) | 16:26 |
| jebba | X-Fade: well, i'm trying to build burgerspace and it needs the dev libs from flatzebra, and it ain't finding them. | 16:27 |
| woglinde | hm lets see for nxcomp | 16:27 |
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| jebba | cool CONFIG_LOGO_LINUX_CLUT224=y works too ;) | 16:29 |
| woglinde | hm nope nxcomp dont shows up | 16:30 |
| GAN900 | X-Fade, it's those timebomb scripts you keep setting up to keep yourself emplpyeed. :P | 16:30 |
| woglinde | *g* | 16:30 |
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| X-Fade | Ok I found the issue. | 16:32 |
| woglinde | ah | 16:32 |
| X-Fade | Due to the garage issue over the weekend the sign process was stuck. | 16:32 |
| woglinde | hm as I thought | 16:32 |
| woglinde | without known it was sign process | 16:32 |
| X-Fade | Syncing -devel now., | 16:32 |
| woglinde | thanks | 16:32 |
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| GAN900 | Nokia should really have saved on the Internationsl Overnight shipping and spent that money on a freaking warranty. | 16:35 |
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| * GAN900 wonders which idiot decided the 1 week warranty was a good idea. | 16:36 | |
| SinofEnvy | there's only a 1wk warranty on the N900? | 16:36 |
| SinofEnvy | damn, gotta throw it out of my window earlier than I thought then :( ONLY LITTLE TIME LEFT | 16:36 |
| GAN900 | For DDP devices. | 16:36 |
| jeremiah | Why bother with a warranty when you're just gonna break it anyway? | 16:38 |
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| woglinde | remoo | 16:38 |
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| SinofEnvy | You... don't actually think I was gonna break it, do you? | 16:38 |
| RST38h | moo indeed | 16:38 |
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| _berto_ | the maemo autobuilder is working | 16:40 |
| _berto_ | guys, what's the best way to clone an N900 ? backup + restore ? | 16:40 |
| X-Fade | extras-devel has been synched/signed now. Everything should be available now. | 16:40 |
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| _berto_ | X-Fade: yes it is | 16:42 |
| _berto_ | :) | 16:42 |
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| X-Fade | _berto_: Good ;) | 16:43 |
| mgedmin | what are the known hardware issues we should check during the 1 week DDP warranty period? | 16:44 |
| mgedmin | mic, wifi? | 16:44 |
| jebba | X-Fade: thx :) | 16:45 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: mic was not an issue. Was fmradio doing something wrong. | 16:45 |
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| _berto_ | mgedmin: I'm going to clone my N900 asap and test it during this week | 16:46 |
| jebba | new burgerspace, coming up! ;) | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | _berto_: rsync -aHx / /sdcard is what i use .. and copying /dev | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | Stskeeps, that won't work as well when the two N900s have different firmware versions, I suppose | 16:47 |
| _berto_ | Stskeeps: :D | 16:47 |
| _berto_ | Stskeeps: I'd do that on a destkop computer | 16:47 |
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| _berto_ | ok, vagalume is working fine in extras-devel | 16:48 |
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| _berto_ | so ... | 16:48 |
| _berto_ | http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/12/14/vagalume-0-8-released-now-with-support-for-libre-fm/ | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | mgedmin: and making a ubifs of it | 16:49 |
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| hrw | mgedmin: all | 16:50 |
| VDVsx | _berto_, great, but you need some new shiny icons :D | 16:50 |
| _berto_ | VDVsx: yes es :D | 16:50 |
| _berto_ | we have a new logo, that's something | 16:50 |
| VDVsx | _berto_, if you need some help, ask in the design forum at talk, there's some folks there willing to help :) | 16:51 |
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| hrw | mgedmin: check screen for bad pixels, check does tv-out works, does fm radio receiver/transmitter works | 16:52 |
| hrw | mgedmin: does it makes/receives gsm calls/messages, does both cameras works | 16:53 |
| _berto_ | I guess liqtorch is the easiest way to check for dead pixels ? | 16:53 |
| jebba | _berto_: installing it now. Looks cool. One small note, N900 isn't mentioned in description, just previous models, fwiw | 16:53 |
| _berto_ | jebba: ah, you're probably right | 16:53 |
| woglinde | jebba did you test the nx packages? | 16:54 |
| jebba | woglinde: not yet, will do | 16:54 |
| woglinde | okay | 16:54 |
| woglinde | thanks | 16:54 |
| jebba | i'm not even sure what I have for NX in fedora 12 | 16:54 |
| jebba | been years since i played with NX | 16:54 |
| woglinde | jebba hm okay | 16:54 |
| woglinde | I will wait for pupnik | 16:54 |
| woglinde | dont make your self some stress | 16:55 |
| jebba | heh. i'll see what i can figure out ;) | 16:55 |
| jebba | i just remember setting it up before (using *primarily* free software) was about as much fun as sendmail.cf. Has it gotten better? | 16:55 |
| GAN900 | X-Fade, nope, there's also a hardware failure. | 16:56 |
| GAN900 | mgedmin, mic, WiFi, dead/stuck pixels. | 16:57 |
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| jebba | woglinde: should I use the ones here? http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/heinold/nx/ | 16:57 |
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| woglinde | jebba with ubuntu packages yes | 16:58 |
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| woglinde | jebba yes you could take these | 16:58 |
| woglinde | I am right now feeding the builder | 16:58 |
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| jukey | _berto_: great news! :-) | 16:59 |
| jebba | woglinde: fyi, those are not optified. | 16:59 |
| jukey | i still use libre.fm since it's launch | 16:59 |
| jukey | <- no. 45 *hrhr* | 17:00 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | GAN900: I don't know if I could *see* a stuck/dead pixel on the N900 screen | 17:00 |
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| _berto_ | jukey: :) | 17:01 |
| jebba | _berto_: by default, no last.fm service is there in preferences, just libre.fm. Also to import the servers list file, I dont see one (didnt hunt around, but it wasnt in the directory it opened by default) | 17:02 |
| GAN900 | Gadgetoid_iMac, how about several? | 17:02 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | GAN900: That I might notice | 17:03 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Took me too long to notice the one on my N810 though | 17:03 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, can you downgrade the package and app icons to the old ones? | 17:03 |
| jebba | woglinde: missing something? http://pastebin.ca/1714432 | 17:04 |
| GAN900 | New toolbar icons are so much better. | 17:04 |
| woglinde | oh no | 17:04 |
| woglinde | ping x-fade | 17:04 |
| woglinde | ~ping x-fade | 17:04 |
| infobot | pong x-fade | 17:04 |
| _berto_ | jebba: you have to write your own servers file | 17:04 |
| RST38h | GAN: Not getting it, explain | 17:05 |
| woglinde | jebba grap the libxmuu manually from sdk | 17:05 |
| _berto_ | jebba: is the question "how can I listen to last.fm in the n900?" | 17:05 |
| _berto_ | ? | 17:05 |
| woglinde | I have to beg x-fade to put them into extras as for diablo | 17:05 |
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| arachnist | is there a way to make the media indexer read tags from .flac files? | 17:06 |
| jebba | _berto_: no | 17:06 |
| _berto_ | jebba: you only need to import a servers file if you want to add a new server | 17:07 |
| RST38h | GAN: Which icons do you like better: the new ones (from the previous build), the old ones (from the old Chinook build) or the Hildon ones (in the current build I uploaded)? | 17:07 |
| jebba | _berto_: "only" | 17:07 |
| jebba | i suggest having it there by default, no? | 17:08 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, the blue books icon. | 17:08 |
| _berto_ | having what ? libre.fm is already there by default | 17:08 |
| _berto_ | you don't need to import it | 17:08 |
| jebba | well, then change your summary: | 17:08 |
| jebba | "Client for Last.fm and compatible radio serv" | 17:08 |
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| RST38h | GAN: That will be the Chinook icon set | 17:08 |
| GAN900 | Just for the application and package icon, though. | 17:09 |
| _berto_ | jebba: well, for the N900 you are probably right | 17:09 |
| GAN900 | and for a while in Diablo, too. | 17:09 |
| RST38h | GAN: Ah! The app icon! | 17:09 |
| * RST38h gets it now | 17:09 | |
| woglinde | jebba I put xmuu now into the dir | 17:09 |
| _berto_ | I have the same summary in all versions | 17:09 |
| RST38h | GAN: wazd agreed to do a decent app icon for the fbreader | 17:09 |
| jebba | basically, people have last.fm accounts. They see that app based on summary, the download it, go to preferences, can't enter account (and/or dont even know WTF is the difference between last.fm and libre.fm) = they think it's broken | 17:09 |
| RST38h | GAN: Check with him on the progress | 17:09 |
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| GAN900 | The old one was plenty decent imho. | 17:10 |
| jebba | _berto_: PITA to add things like that tap tap tap. Plus no clue where to get them. How would a user know? | 17:10 |
| RST38h | GAN: It was ok but too amateurish IMHO | 17:10 |
| GAN900 | Hrm, hildon-home bug. | 17:10 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, very spottable, though. | 17:10 |
| GAN900 | OK, can somebody test a bug for me? | 17:11 |
| GAN900 | 1. Choose a 3rd party applications. | 17:11 |
| RST38h | GAN: Anyways, check with wazd: I am sure he can do something very similar but way more professional | 17:11 |
| _berto_ | jebba: you're probably right, I can change the package description for the N900 version | 17:11 |
| jebba | woglinde: installed OK now :) | 17:11 |
| jebba | _berto_: woo hoo! thx :) | 17:11 |
| woglinde | jebba jupp | 17:11 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: ping | 17:11 |
| GAN900 | 2. Add a shortcut for the application to the desktop. | 17:12 |
| jebba | oh, well, actually, i woo hoo'd too early. Why not add last.fm in there too? heh. | 17:12 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, pong | 17:12 |
| _berto_ | that's in the FAQ | 17:12 |
| GAN900 | 3. Remove the application with h-a-m or apt-get. | 17:12 |
| GAN900 | 4. Note that the shortcut is now gone. | 17:12 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: i made the symlinks, but it does not show the icons, do i need anything more than a 64x64 in scalable? also, should i put them as subdir of apps or hildon inside scalable? | 17:12 |
| _berto_ | I expect many people to use last.fm too, but without permission from last.fm I prefer not to ship the config file | 17:12 |
| GAN900 | 5. Reinstall said application. | 17:12 |
| GAN900 | 6. Try to readd the shortcut. | 17:13 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, you've a .desktop file right ? | 17:13 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: i do | 17:13 |
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| jebba | woglinde: fyi, in fedora 12 repo I see nx qtnx nxcl | 17:13 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, for your next trick, can you make zlib not suck? *g* | 17:14 |
| jebba | ya, make them read the FAQ, lazy users! | 17:14 |
| jebba | clicking on your URL in the ABOUT box doesn't work, FYI _berto_ | 17:14 |
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| VDVsx | redeeman, you're talking about the app link ?, there's a bug in hildon desktop, kill hildon-dektop or reboot and check if the problem is in your package | 17:14 |
| _berto_ | jebba: I know, that's to be fixed | 17:14 |
| jebba | nor is there a way to copy it | 17:14 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, it happens a lot of times when installing apps | 17:15 |
| jebba | _berto_: if it's just a matter of including 1 file why not ease the pain? | 17:15 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: well yes, i wish to have my icon displayed on my shortcut on the "desktop", i made a .desktop entry and put symlink to in /usr/share/applications/hildon, and made an icon, which i symlinked into /usr/share/icons/hicolor/apps | 17:16 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: only 64x64 though | 17:16 |
| redeeman | png format | 17:16 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, btw , did you updated the icon cache ? | 17:16 |
| redeeman | i tyhink it does automagically | 17:16 |
| VDVsx | in your postinstall script | 17:16 |
| redeeman | because after updating the directories, it loads the application menu very slow | 17:16 |
| redeeman | btw, i have no postinst script, im doing this manually | 17:17 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, so better restart and check if isn't the bug striking again | 17:17 |
| redeeman | just kill hildon-desktop? | 17:17 |
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| redeeman | i think that reset it, lol :) | 17:18 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, yes you can do it, but I recommend a restart | 17:18 |
| VDVsx | *reboot | 17:18 |
| redeeman | it rebooted by killing hildon-desktop | 17:18 |
| _berto_ | jebba: so what do you suggest? | 17:19 |
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| redeeman | but icons are still not there | 17:19 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, check if you've the correct name in the .desktop file | 17:20 |
| redeeman | i do | 17:21 |
| hrw | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/14/things-to-check-with-nokia-n900/ | 17:21 |
| RST38h | GAN: what zlib? | 17:21 |
| redeeman | i assume its just the filename without .png? | 17:21 |
| redeeman | which it seems to be for other packages | 17:21 |
| hrw | mgedmin (and others with DDP): read that | 17:21 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, yes | 17:21 |
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| VDVsx | redeeman, where did you put the symlink ? | 17:23 |
| redeeman | /usr/share/icons/hicolor/apps and /usr/share/applications/hildon | 17:23 |
| redeeman | erhm | 17:23 |
| redeeman | scalable aswell | 17:23 |
| redeeman | (hicolor/scalable/apps/) | 17:23 |
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| VDVsx | correct path is: usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ | 17:24 |
| redeeman | yes that's right | 17:24 |
| redeeman | oh | 17:24 |
| redeeman | hildon | 17:24 |
| redeeman | i thought that didn't matter | 17:24 |
| redeeman | okay, thanks, will try | 17:24 |
| * RST38h received the DDP device but cannot test it =( | 17:25 | |
| hrw | RST38h: missed with courier? | 17:25 |
| RST38h | hrw: no, it came to my US address | 17:25 |
| RST38h | hrw: Will only get it around Jan 7 | 17:25 |
| hrw | so after 1st week | 17:26 |
| RST38h | yes | 17:27 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, libzlibrary. | 17:27 |
| RST38h | ah that | 17:27 |
| RST38h | what do you want fixed there? | 17:27 |
| jebba | woglinde: isn't a nxclient binary needed? trying to get it running with nxproxy | 17:27 |
| woglinde | jebba qtnx is the nxclient | 17:28 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, make it not ridiculously slow. ;) | 17:28 |
| woglinde | free software | 17:28 |
| RST38h | GAN: Feels ok to me | 17:28 |
| jebba | _berto_: my suggestion is to include the last.fm serverlist or whatever it is too. So in the dropdown menu you can select whichever client you want. | 17:28 |
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| * RST38h fixed a crash in libzlibrary and integrated patches from qwerty | 17:28 | |
| GAN900 | It's slow to render. | 17:28 |
| GAN900 | Look at it switching to fullscreen. | 17:29 |
| jebba | woglinde: got a 1 line HOWTO? I'm doing it based on fedora docs, but there appear to be different binaries (e.g. no nxclient on n900= | 17:29 |
| woglinde | rst hm which bug in zlib? | 17:29 |
| GAN900 | Or scrolling pages. | 17:29 |
| RST38h | yea, but it is ok | 17:29 |
| woglinde | jebba openconsole and type qtnx | 17:29 |
| RST38h | scrolling is no problem to me, switching to full screen takes a short moment, but it is not a showstopper | 17:29 |
| _berto_ | jebba: I don't want Last.fm to block the Vagalume API key if they find out that I'm providing it for an unauthorized mobile phone client | 17:29 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Did you change the pressure settings when enabling tap pager on your device? | 17:30 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: not the default ones | 17:30 |
| woglinde | hi fiferboy | 17:30 |
| RST38h | Oh, for myself? Yes, I had to change them a bit | 17:30 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, yeah, I agree. Was mostly elbowing you about spending a bunch of time rewriting the whole lin "while you're at it". ;) | 17:30 |
| RST38h | it still does not well differentiate between paging and list selection though | 17:30 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Do you recall what they are to work for you? | 17:30 |
| fiferboy | hi woglinde | 17:30 |
| RST38h | GAN: No chance, unfortunately. | 17:30 |
| woglinde | ~curse slowness of garage | 17:31 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, slowness of garage ! | 17:31 |
| woglinde | haha | 17:31 |
| GAN900 | s/lin/lib/ | 17:31 |
| infobot | GAN900 meant: RST38h, yeah, I agree. Was mostly elbowing you about spending a bunch of time rewriting the whole lib "while you're at it". ;) | 17:31 |
| RST38h | GAN: And if there is any chance, I would rather redo the dialogs in Maemo version to use scrollable list | 17:31 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, yeah, that was the main thrust of the joke. ;) | 17:31 |
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| woglinde | okay ist child pickup time | 17:34 |
| woglinde | till later | 17:34 |
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| hrw | bye all | 17:35 |
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| achipa | anyone used an apt proxy with their NIT ? Like approx or apt-proxy ? | 17:36 |
| jebba | woglinde: ya, but that's just for the client, not the server, no? I'm thinking ala: run nxproxy or somesuch on the n900, qtnx on laptop to connect to n900. But its been years since I've nx'd ;) | 17:36 |
| jebba | ah ciao woglinde | 17:36 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: I can't remember right away | 17:36 |
| achipa | extras(-*) work fine but the nokia ones do some weird funk, spitting out 403 forbiddens | 17:37 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Ah, okay | 17:37 |
| fiferboy | I remember I had to make some changes for diablo to get it to work | 17:37 |
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| clmntch | hello | 17:37 |
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| * RST38h does not see the Maemo config tab in 0.10.7_5 | 17:38 | |
| RST38h | Weird.... | 17:38 |
| RST38h | Have I missed something? | 17:38 |
| MaceG1 | hm | 17:38 |
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| fiferboy | RST38h: I see the maemo tab | 17:39 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: between which tabs? | 17:39 |
| fiferboy | At the very end | 17:39 |
| RST38h | after what tab? | 17:39 |
| fiferboy | I just updated from qwerty's version to yours, but I think there is an option missing that you added? | 17:39 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: After Web | 17:40 |
| RST38h | I do not see it here. | 17:40 |
| fiferboy | I think something may have not updated cleanly for me, though | 17:40 |
| fiferboy | I will uninstall and reinstall clean and let you know | 17:40 |
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| redeeman | VDVsx: how do i update the icon cache? | 17:42 |
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| GAN900 | fiferboy, libzlib didn't update from h-a-m here. | 17:42 |
| MaceG1 | maybe some day there will be mer for G1 | 17:42 |
| MaceG1 | heh | 17:42 |
| redeeman | because it still doesn't work | 17:42 |
| GAN900 | apt-get upgrade | 17:42 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: Looks like that was my problem too | 17:42 |
| RST38h | GAN: is it a problem with packaging? | 17:42 |
| RST38h | jeremiah, are you around? Could you explain? | 17:43 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, /usr/bin/gtk-update-icon-cache | 17:43 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, likely. | 17:44 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Did you take libzlibrary out of user/* ? | 17:44 |
| RST38h | yes | 17:44 |
| RST38h | it is libs now | 17:44 |
| RST38h | is that wrong? | 17:44 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, is the libzlib version high enough in the depends? | 17:44 |
| fiferboy | If I uninstall and reinstall, it pulls the correct version of libzlibrary | 17:44 |
| RST38h | weird like hell | 17:44 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, no, that's correct. | 17:44 |
| GAN900 | Hrm | 17:44 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Well, that is where it *should* be, but it was a user package before | 17:44 |
| RST38h | I know | 17:45 |
| RST38h | and it was wrong | 17:45 |
| fiferboy | Maybe HAM doesn't want to update a user/* package witha non-user/* ? | 17:45 |
| GAN900 | The depends in the FBReader package should handle everything. | 17:45 |
| GAN900 | fiferboy, ah! | 17:45 |
| GAN900 | Yes, I think that's it. | 17:45 |
| RST38h | X-Fade, jeremiah, what will you say? | 17:45 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Hi | 17:46 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: do you still see the Maemo tab in config? | 17:46 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: we have got two packages | 17:46 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: one is in user/utilities, another one in libs | 17:46 |
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| jeremiah | for fbreader? | 17:46 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: No | 17:46 |
| LuciusMare | hello,has anybody ported any clone of liero on maemo (5) already? | 17:46 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: looks like updating the user/utilities package does not lead to updating libs one | 17:46 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: somethign is broken then. will have to check at home tonight | 17:47 |
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| RST38h | jeremiah; ALTHOUGH, the previous version of the libs package was marked user/libs | 17:47 |
| redeeman | VDVsx: it still doesn't work, are you sure it only requires 64x64 and that symlinks work? | 17:47 |
| jeremiah | What package are we referring to? | 17:47 |
| jeremiah | libzlibrary? | 17:48 |
| RST38h | fbreader / libzlibrary | 17:48 |
| jeremiah | ah, okay. | 17:48 |
| jebba | woglinde: fedora 12 also includes freenx-client freenx-server packages fyi | 17:48 |
| jeremiah | So, fbreader is visable and downloadable? | 17:48 |
| RST38h | yes | 17:48 |
| RST38h | except for that little update problem | 17:48 |
| jeremiah | But libzlibrary is not getting updated? | 17:48 |
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| jeremiah | What version should libzlibrary be? | 17:49 |
| RST38h | 0.10.7_5 | 17:49 |
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| RST38h | same as fbreader | 17:49 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, fiferboy got itl | 17:50 |
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| VDVsx | redeeman, I told you, better check the docs, I never said that it only requires the 64x64, I also use a 48x48, not sure if is needed in maemo5 | 17:50 |
| GAN900 | Also: who can we con into fixing the dialogs and menu so we can push this to Extras? | 17:50 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Well if this is indeed a problem, it has to be fixed somehow | 17:50 |
| RST38h | GAN: If qwerty does it, I will gladly review and package the code | 17:50 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: The developer of fbreader said he will be porting version 12 to maemo5 | 17:51 |
| fiferboy | He just got an N900 | 17:51 |
| RST38h | In fact I suggest pushing it to extras as it is, it is way too useful to keep out of Extras | 17:51 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, about the symlink it must work, but IMO is pure none sense making a symlink from a path in rootfs to another one in rootfs, I can't see the reason for that | 17:51 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: Geometer or MishaS? | 17:51 |
| fiferboy | geometer | 17:51 |
| RST38h | have ot email him | 17:51 |
| RST38h | a moment | 17:51 |
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| redeeman | VDVsx: what? i make a symlink into /opt | 17:51 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, you said "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/apps" above ^ | 17:52 |
| redeeman | which points into /opt | 17:52 |
| VDVsx | oh my, ok | 17:53 |
| fiferboy | GAN900, RST38h: http://groups.google.com/group/fbreader/browse_thread/thread/bb40b2ab24a5a4ca?hl=en# | 17:53 |
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| mgedmin | so, remember me complaining about volume keys controlling volume and not going to the app, *sometimes*? | 17:54 |
| VDVsx | redeeman, if you've a deb I can try to help, otherwise only guessing is a bit hard :p | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | I thought it happened when I got the ubiquitous "unable to connect to one or more accounts" message on top | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | well, I was wrong | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | it just happens randomly every now and then | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | only in fbreader (which I force to listen to volume keys by calling xprop manually from xterm) | 17:55 |
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| henningms | Getting my N900 tomorrow! :D | 17:57 |
| LuciusMare | henningms: congratulations | 17:57 |
| henningms | Thanks, really looking forward to this device | 17:57 |
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| LuciusMare | wait | 17:58 |
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| LuciusMare | where are you from? | 17:58 |
| henningms | Norway | 17:58 |
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| LuciusMare | hm | 17:58 |
| LuciusMare | where did you buy it from? | 17:58 |
| henningms | I ordered online from komplett.no | 17:58 |
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| LuciusMare | hm | 17:58 |
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| henningms | hm?? | 17:58 |
| GAN900 | fiferboy, well, let's be sure he gets our patches. | 17:59 |
| LuciusMare | sad, in "central" europe, its all sold out or still "preorder" | 17:59 |
| LuciusMare | i want it for xmas | 17:59 |
| henningms | Yeah, it's my christmas gift to myself (that's nice right ;) | 17:59 |
| LuciusMare | ho ho ho | 18:00 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: There is a new version for Linux/Windows released today, I want to check and see if the dialogs are any better | 18:00 |
| henningms | It's almost sold out here aswell | 18:00 |
| LuciusMare | henningms: *almost* | 18:00 |
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| henningms | edit; it actually is sold out | 18:00 |
| LuciusMare | you lucky... | 18:00 |
| henningms | the store I bought it from says confirmed 1 unit 15 december | 18:00 |
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| henningms | So it sold out pretty quickly I suppose | 18:01 |
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| melmoth | Any one knows how can i apply the patches included in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/libi/libical/libical_1.43-99.3+0m5.tar.gz ? The goal being to read the patched sources ? | 18:06 |
| melmoth | something like rpmbuild -bp, but with dpkg | 18:07 |
| jeremiah | That is a tarball melmoth | 18:07 |
| melmoth | yep, i know. | 18:07 |
| melmoth | the debian directory contain a set of patches that will be applyed when the package is built | 18:07 |
| melmoth | i would like to see how the source looks like after the set of patch have been applyed | 18:08 |
| jeremiah | So you can use dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot | 18:08 |
| RST38h | Gan,fiferboy: I sent Geometer an email | 18:08 |
| melmoth | jeremiah: this will build the package. | 18:08 |
| jeremiah | melmoth: Yes. | 18:08 |
| melmoth | but then, where do i read the sources ? i mean the one that include the patch defines in the debian/patch directory ? | 18:09 |
| jeremiah | You already have the source | 18:09 |
| jeremiah | Or you should | 18:09 |
| jeremiah | If not, you can use 'apt-get source <package>' | 18:09 |
| RST38h | ok home | 18:09 |
| jeremiah | So, if you want the source of a particular package, it looks like in this case you want the source for libical | 18:10 |
| melmoth | this package is not in the src repo, but that s not the problem as the source pakage is actually available in the above url | 18:10 |
| melmoth | i want to have the maemo specifc patch applyed to the sources so i can read the patched version | 18:10 |
| jeremiah | that should be in a dir called 'patch' | 18:10 |
| jeremiah | or something similar. | 18:11 |
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| melmoth | if i understand correclty, something like "debian/rules apply-patches" should do it, but , then if i diff the directory with an old copy, there are no changes. | 18:11 |
| jeremiah | In the deb itself usually. | 18:11 |
| jeremiah | melmoth: Are you certain there were patches applied? | 18:11 |
| melmoth | yes, the patches are in debian/patches, my problem is how to actually apply them all in the right order to see the sources as they will be compiled by dpkhg | 18:11 |
| jeremiah | ah | 18:12 |
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| jeremiah | okay | 18:12 |
| jebba | melmoth: in the case there, they are numbered. | 18:12 |
| melmoth | yes they are | 18:12 |
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| melmoth | http://pastebin.com/m242fbd22 | 18:12 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, I think you can use quilt to look at them before they are applied too | 18:12 |
| jeremiah | quilt is a widely used tool to apply and manage patches in debian | 18:12 |
| melmoth | ok. I ll read a bit about quilt. | 18:13 |
| jebba | melmoth: so i think they are being applied in numerical order. In some packages there is a debian/patches/series file, which lists patches to be applied and in which order. | 18:13 |
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| Myrtti | COOKIES OMNOMNOMNOM | 18:14 |
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| achipa | does anyone have an idea if the Nokia repositories are supposed to be (really) public ? I have the sinking feeling I'm poking something I'm not supposed to... | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | which ones? | 18:14 |
| * GAN900 finished the Key Lime pie last night. :( | 18:15 | |
| jeremiah | achipa: In what sense? | 18:15 |
| jeremiah | Are you logged into the repo server? | 18:15 |
| jeremiah | I can check anyway. :) | 18:15 |
| achipa | https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/apps/ and friends | 18:15 |
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| achipa | I'm trying to proxy them for my N900 and something is fishy...as in can't wget files that apt-get update can get... | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: welcome to apt authenticating your tablet | 18:16 |
| jeremiah | heh | 18:16 |
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| Stskeeps | similar sys as to n8x0s | 18:16 |
| achipa | ah... | 18:17 |
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| range | act | 18:20 |
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| vesa | anyone tried ovi sharing with n900? i can't even get it to validate my account | 18:26 |
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| vesa | tried creating a fresh account but doesn't help | 18:27 |
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| Myrtti | there might be some service outages today with some ovi services | 18:27 |
| vesa | it's been like that since last week, but i'll try again another day | 18:28 |
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| w00t | vesa: check your time on your n900 | 18:28 |
| w00t | and date | 18:28 |
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| w00t | I've had problems in the past where the date was incorrectr | 18:28 |
| w00t | -r | 18:28 |
| vesa | date/time are correct. logging in via the webbrowser works fine | 18:28 |
| w00t | mmk | 18:28 |
| w00t | no idea then.. I'll check later on this evening when I get a chance | 18:29 |
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| Gadgetoid_mbp | Anyone know any good UK rolling 1 month SIMs that include data and actually WORK with the N900? | 18:48 |
| zash | "rolling 1 month" ? | 18:49 |
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| Gadgetoid_mbp | Yes, IE you're not locked into a 12, 18 or 24 month contract | 18:50 |
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| zash | but not a prepaid? | 18:51 |
| zaheerm | Gadgetoid, o2 | 18:51 |
| pupnik | I just tried a 1 month sim from o2/tschibo - phone works, internet broken atm. | 18:53 |
| pupnik | No idea why | 18:53 |
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| zash | anyone tried zbarcam | 18:53 |
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| achipa | and just wondering... these apt user/passwords happen to be a per device thing, right ? | 18:57 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 18:57 |
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| achipa | are they retained after reflash or generated while flashing/firstbooting ? | 18:58 |
| GAN900 | achipa, check the apt sources. ;) | 18:58 |
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| GAN900 | There was a patch for it in the source tree for Diablo. | 18:58 |
| GAN900 | http://mxr.maemo.org | 18:59 |
| xorAxAx | http://www.strandreports.com/sw3896.asp -- stockholm syndrome, hah! | 18:59 |
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| lardman|home | afternoon | 18:59 |
| achipa | GAN900: thx, I'm not THAT curious :) | 19:00 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | I currently have a Three SIM, har har | 19:00 |
| GAN900 | achipa, shouldn't take more than a couple minutes to pull up. | 19:00 |
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| lardman|home | achipa: where's shepherd? :) | 19:01 |
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| achipa | lardman|home: yikes. totally forgot about sending that to you, sorry, will pack something up ASAP | 19:02 |
| lardman|home | np, was just curious actually, had forgotten you were sending it to me! :) | 19:02 |
| lardman|home | busy this week so don't rush too much | 19:02 |
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| * lardman|home wonders if it would be worth the application manager listing free space when it displays the space a package will consume when installed (during the installation process) | 19:03 | |
| jebba | _berto_: ok, deleted my last.fm account. bastards. Got libre.fm now. :) though i can't seem to add any tracks via vagalume (e.g. does it have a way to listen to *local* tracks?) | 19:03 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, did you built fftw for maemo yet ? | 19:04 |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: not yet | 19:04 |
| lardman|home | will try it in a minute if you want | 19:04 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, err, I can do it, not a problem :) | 19:04 |
| lardman|home | been a bit busy as am teaching this week so had to sort out course updates, etc | 19:04 |
| VDVsx | I really need it :P | 19:04 |
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| lardman|home | VDVsx: np, I was going to do so anyway | 19:05 |
| lardman|home | yay, Qalculate! now works from the icon, though the menus need hildonising | 19:05 |
| * Stskeeps yawns | 19:05 | |
| lardman|home | so if anyone fancies having a go please do | 19:05 |
| achipa | VDVsx: wait a tic, I uploaded fftw a while back | 19:05 |
| achipa | or was that just for diablo... | 19:06 |
| * achipa needs coffee | 19:06 | |
| lardman|home | achipa: did you upload fort77? | 19:06 |
| VDVsx | achipa, oh, I did found it | 19:06 |
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| VDVsx | achipa, was a long ago or just some few hours ? | 19:06 |
| achipa | err, no. I believe I mercilessly butchered most of the fortran stuff | 19:07 |
| achipa | long ago | 19:07 |
| VDVsx | achipa, so perhaps only for diablo | 19:07 |
| _berto_ | jebba: no, you can't listen to local tracks | 19:07 |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: looks ok, let me try a build | 19:08 |
| achipa | lardman|home: if the fort77 stuff bogs you down, just reupload my diablo sources | 19:08 |
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| achipa | it should pass through fremantle just as easy... | 19:09 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, I doing a local build atm, without fortran, but feel free to do a proper package | 19:09 |
| lardman|home | achipa: no, I've pushed fort77 + libf2c to Fremantle, but was stopped for Diablo | 19:09 |
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| lardman|home | as fort77 already exists | 19:10 |
| lardman|home | though libf2c doesn't, curiously | 19:10 |
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| _berto_ | Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '<' in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/helper/_styleloader.php(637) : eval()'d code on line 171 | 19:10 |
| _berto_ | that's in maemo.org | 19:10 |
| _berto_ | https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mplayer/ | 19:10 |
| VDVsx | _berto_, new servers setup, perhaps | 19:11 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, ok, took some time, but it's easy to build :) | 19:12 |
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| lardman|home | do you already have an ARM build then? | 19:13 |
| Hydroxide | Stskeeps: hey, we were talking previously about n900 gps and location-test-gui - I was unable to get a fix except for that one time, even with a SIM and t-mobile USA 3G/3.5G UMTS/HSDPA service, with any of the settings in LTG | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | Hydroxide: odd | 19:14 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, yup, gonna install it now on the device, without it I can test my last work on the device :( | 19:14 |
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| Hydroxide | Stskeeps: even with much view of the sky | 19:15 |
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| lardman|home | VDVsx: have you pushed it to the repo? | 19:15 |
| Hydroxide | Stskeeps: one person in the tmo n900 gps problem thread mentioned that it might be specific to t-mobile usa | 19:15 |
| AbstractW | grr. N900 is *STILL* out of stock. | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | maybe it filters supl port, Hydroxide? | 19:15 |
| AbstractW | Do I just wait for the google phone, and sell my soul to the other evil overlords? :P | 19:15 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, no, I build it locally after talk to you, lol | 19:15 |
| lardman|home | ok :) | 19:15 |
| VDVsx | I'm not that fast, lol | 19:16 |
| woglinde | hoi lardman | 19:16 |
| lardman|home | hi woglinde | 19:16 |
| woglinde | ~seen x-fade | 19:16 |
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| infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo (2d 19h 22m 12s). Has said a total of 11 messages. Is idling for 2h 30m 58s, last said: 'mgedmin: mic was not an issue. Was fmradio doing something wrong.'. | 19:16 |
| Hydroxide | Stskeeps: which one is that? I can test to a personal server of mine | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | supl.nokia.com cant recall port | 19:16 |
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| Hydroxide | heh, yeah. I was just going to set up a netcat listening on the right port | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 19:17 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Hmm, wiicontrol sucks a bit at the moment | 19:17 |
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| Stskeeps | google it, Hydroxide | 19:17 |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: did you apply any ARM optimisations? | 19:17 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, gonna test if everything is working well, if you want I can upload it to the repos, let me know | 19:17 |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: because I think they might well be needed to make it quick enough | 19:17 |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: feel free, will stop my bui;d | 19:18 |
| GAN900 | AbstractW, Android is no Maemo. | 19:18 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, not at all | 19:18 |
| Hydroxide | Stskeeps: I've been... I might have found it | 19:18 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, apart from the ones already in the upstream debian rules | 19:18 |
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| lardman|home | nothing ARM related in there afaict | 19:19 |
| lardman|home | :( | 19:19 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, nop | 19:19 |
| lardman|home | well, something to look at for the futyre | 19:20 |
| lardman|home | I guess it will be pretty important for you | 19:20 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, so I'll use this one, and wait for your with this optimizations :P | 19:20 |
| lardman|home | lol | 19:20 |
| lardman|home | well I'll get there in the end, I guess there must be some simd patches about for ARM | 19:20 |
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| AbstractW | GAN900: This is true, but I can't seem to find me an N900! :P | 19:21 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, my stuff is not too heavy, is a simple DFT calculate from a array of 60 to 256 elements | 19:21 |
| * mgedmin feels a bit guilty for having two ... | 19:21 | |
| * VDVsx steals booth mgedmin's n900s | 19:22 | |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: ok | 19:22 |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: single frequency component? | 19:22 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, yes, there's more than one, but I want to do everything separated | 19:23 |
| lardman|home | I wonder if it uses Goertzel? | 19:24 |
| lardman|home | never having actually used fftw directly | 19:24 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, humm, dunno | 19:24 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, but everything is explained in their website | 19:25 |
| lardman|home | np | 19:25 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, ok, gonna upload that version(without fortran), seems to work fine | 19:34 |
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| lardman|home | hmm | 19:34 |
| lardman|home | hang on 5 min and I'll upload one with FORTRAN | 19:34 |
| lardman|home | just waiting for the tests to be performed | 19:34 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, oki, do you've a gfortran packages ? | 19:35 |
| lardman|home | no, use fort77 | 19:35 |
| VDVsx | I need that for other stuff as well | 19:35 |
| lardman|home | straight swap of gfortran for fort77 | 19:35 |
| lardman|home | in the deps | 19:35 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Bah, I have failed editing the wiicontrol python script | 19:35 |
| lardman|home | then a possibly addition of libf2c in the libs section | 19:35 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Or it's just decided to cease working | 19:35 |
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| MaceG1 | dollhouse isnt that good | 19:36 |
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| MaceG1 | they should have gotten a better actress for the lead role | 19:36 |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: what else have you built that needs FORTRAN? | 19:36 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, stupid apt-get didn't found that when I search for fortran | 19:36 |
| MaceG1 | summer glau would have been able to pull it off way better | 19:36 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, IIRC some games | 19:37 |
| lardman|home | wow, with FORTRAN! :) | 19:37 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, stupid thinks there, I didn't dig that much | 19:37 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, there's also other requiring pascal and I've also find some requiring haskell ;) | 19:38 |
| lardman|home | Pascal would be interesting to have, but I don't have anything specific for it | 19:38 |
| lardman|home | Am currently building Octave deps | 19:38 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, I think is already there, because is one of the frozen.bubble deps IIRC | 19:39 |
| VDVsx | anyway I don't have time for ports atm : | 19:39 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, btw, you're building the one of the last version of fftw right ? | 19:41 |
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| VDVsx | version 2.x has some performance problems, according to the authors | 19:41 |
| VDVsx | 3.x is fine | 19:41 |
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| lardman|home | my goodness, these fftw tests take an age! | 19:43 |
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| lardman_ | hmm, that Inventec N18 looks perfectly sized | 19:44 |
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| pupnik | anybody have a good way to rip dvd and convert to playable 720x480 | 19:52 |
| woglinde | pupnik try hadnbrake | 19:52 |
| woglinde | http://handbrake.fr/ | 19:52 |
| pupnik | Jaffa crops, which i dont want. I want scaling to 600x480, then stretch to 720x280 | 19:53 |
| pupnik | using it | 19:53 |
| pupnik | it gives me .mkv, which n900 ignores | 19:53 |
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| pupnik | or .m4v which is still too slow | 19:53 |
| pupnik | if i find good settings i will submit to handbrake | 19:54 |
| pupnik | 720x480 | 19:54 |
| Vulcanis_ | pupnik: Have you tried SUPER? | 19:55 |
| Vulcanis_ | you would need to do dvddecrypter and autogk first | 19:55 |
| pupnik | what is that | 19:55 |
| pupnik | k | 19:56 |
| MaceG1 | pupnik. in handbrake use ffmpeg and aac | 19:56 |
| MaceG1 | and scale it down to 480x320 | 19:56 |
| pupnik | ahh my ffmpeg is not showing | 19:56 |
| Vulcanis_ | might need to reinstall it | 19:56 |
| Jaffa | pupnik: Pass the -o option to tablet-encode to maintain original aspect ratio | 19:56 |
| pupnik | yeah your 480p runs nicely | 19:57 |
| Jaffa | pupnik: Then you get the benefit of tablet-encode's episode detection, language selection and main feature detection that handrbake doesn't | 19:57 |
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| MaceG1 | pupnik, i use ffmpeg | 19:57 |
| MaceG1 | in handbrake | 19:57 |
| pupnik | k good to know ty! | 19:57 |
| MaceG1 | have to choose mp4 | 19:58 |
| pupnik | what audio codec? | 19:58 |
| MaceG1 | as the type of file | 19:58 |
| MaceG1 | aac | 19:58 |
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| MaceG1 | 128k aac should work | 19:58 |
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| MaceG1 | stereo | 19:58 |
| MaceG1 | ok. gotta go | 19:58 |
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| lardman_ | VDVsx: still building...... | 20:06 |
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| VDVsx | lardman_, what machine do you've ? lol | 20:06 |
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| lardman_ | dual core 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM | 20:07 |
| VDVsx | lardman_, not a rush for me | 20:07 |
| lardman_ | something like that anyway | 20:07 |
| VDVsx | lardman, strange took around 10 min here | 20:07 |
| lardman_ | ah, is performing the tests too here | 20:07 |
| VDVsx | with the tests, but I think you can disable the tests | 20:07 |
| lardman_ | it also seems to build ~4 sets of fftw for different things - double, singles, etc., etc. | 20:08 |
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| cehteh | http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/connecting-on-the-surface-an-n900-risk/ ... uhm is the phone jack also surface monted? | 20:09 |
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| VDVsx | lardman_, yup, different arithmetics, thats good :) | 20:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | cehteh: as I understand, no | 20:11 |
| pupnik | reducing stretch from 720x480 to 700x480 helps performance | 20:11 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: it's pressed on, and is a push-connector | 20:11 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: it can be easily and cheaply replaced | 20:11 |
| cehteh | i hope so phone jacks very easily wear out | 20:11 |
| cehteh | well the usb thing sux too... | 20:12 |
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| cehteh | ah yes .. looking at the pcb pics .. its not directly mointed on the board | 20:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - http://www.klc.fi/en/products.php?p=36c0b1 | 20:15 |
| cehteh | the idea with a back with contacts for a charge cradle looks good | 20:16 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah, it's complex though | 20:16 |
| SpeedEvil | to do it right, you want to tie in to the existing charger, and have a USB port too | 20:17 |
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| cehteh | not that much, self adhesive metal foil (copper, gold coated) .. few thin wires connect to the usb port, maybe a protection diode .. | 20:17 |
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| pupnik | this scans everything though i only added one video... | 20:18 |
| pupnik | PID PPID USER STAT RSS %MEM %CPU COMMAND | 20:18 |
| pupnik | 1664 1 user S 21104 8.5 88.3 /usr/libexec/gst-video-thumbnailerd | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | i want to disable video thumbnailing | 20:18 |
| lardman_ | hmm, failed while building docs after all that time | 20:18 |
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| * ifreq makes note: dont _ever_ plug machine into usbport when it has mediaplayer running | 20:19 | |
| pupnik | Stskeeps, it shouldnt have to re-thumbnail everything, should it? | 20:19 |
| pupnik | ty ifreq | 20:19 |
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| ifreq | freezes a bit when it tryes to mount usb storage same time when its reserved with media player *sigh* | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: check the source? | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-video-thumbnailer/ | 20:21 |
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| VDVsx | lardman, I removed the docs, they useless for maemo, and they're big (PDF, PS, ...) | 20:27 |
| VDVsx | *they are | 20:27 |
| lardman_ | yep, just done that now, need to re-build | 20:28 |
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| VDVsx | lardman, also there's some deps that the docs require that aren't in available in the repos | 20:30 |
| wazd_n800 | re-heya | 20:30 |
| * Stskeeps throws wazd_n800 a cookie | 20:30 | |
| * wazd_n800 barks | 20:31 | |
| lardman_ | yeah, noticed that before the build, hoped it would just not bother with those, but was wrong | 20:31 |
| wazd_n800 | :) | 20:31 |
| * VDVsx throws wazd_n800 a stick | 20:31 | |
| VDVsx | lol | 20:31 |
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| RST38h | moooo all | 20:32 |
| RST38h | lardman, wazd, VDVsx: heya | 20:32 |
| VDVsx | hey RST38h | 20:33 |
| wazd_n800 | RST38h, moo | 20:33 |
| RST38h | So, to make sure: "libs" or "user/libs" for the library dependencies? | 20:33 |
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| Stskeeps | libs | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_n800: had a good day? | 20:35 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: people have trouble updating | 20:35 |
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| lardman_ | hi RST38h | 20:35 |
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| * VDVsx goes to TMO, ugh | 20:35 | |
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| GAN900 | VDVsx, fail. | 20:36 |
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| wazd_n800 | Stskeeps, as always) | 20:36 |
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| VDVsx | GAN900, why ? I can't help people anymore ? :P | 20:36 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: to HUNT, I assume? | 20:36 |
| korpios | Is there any way to remove my Maemo.org account? I don't want "community voting" emails anymore, I don't do anything with Maemo anymore, but I see no option to kill my account, and no contact email to write for help. I even wrote Nokia and they brushed me off. | 20:37 |
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| VDVsx | lol | 20:37 |
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| VDVsx | X-Fade, ^ | 20:37 |
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| * AndrewBlack can´t believe no Last.fm support in Valgume anymore | 20:37 | |
| RST38h | Vagalume no longer supports Last.fm? | 20:37 |
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| RST38h | Heh | 20:37 |
| RST38h | AndrewBlack: hi-5 :) | 20:38 |
| AndrewBlack | RST38h, lol | 20:38 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, nah, just to see what's happening there | 20:38 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: Same | 20:38 |
| AndrewBlack | RST38h, Last.fm has blocked Mobile phone apps but I say n900 isn´t a mobile phone its a computer :) | 20:38 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: I still hope there is some subforum where I can go and read intelligeble stuff | 20:38 |
| RST38h | Andrew: weird | 20:39 |
| Mousey | its a mobilephone | 20:39 |
| Mousey | =P | 20:39 |
| VDVsx | korpios, send a email with your request to niels at maemo dot org | 20:39 |
| pupnik | any of you get autoconf 2.62 into scratchbox? | 20:39 |
| korpios | VDVsx: thanks | 20:39 |
| pupnik | required for pulseaudio | 20:39 |
| AndrewBlack | korpios, xfade in this channel is who you need to talk to | 20:39 |
| VDVsx | korpios, if that doesn't solve your problem, feel free to ping me here | 20:39 |
| javispedro | mooo | 20:39 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, hey | 20:40 |
| AndrewBlack | Mousey, Without simcard n900 is just a Tablet like n810 | 20:40 |
| javispedro | heya VDVsx :) | 20:40 |
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| Mousey | s/simcard/cell radio/. | 20:40 |
| javispedro | no, | 20:40 |
| javispedro | without simcard a n900 is like an expensive Tablet :) | 20:40 |
| javispedro | without cellradio a n900 is more like an usual Tablet ;) | 20:41 |
| VDVsx | AndrewBlack, RST38h according to last.fm you still can use it in the n8x0, since isn't a phone :) | 20:41 |
| * Mousey wishes they still made the n810 | 20:41 | |
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| Mousey | there, see? | 20:41 |
| pupnik | ah, just edit the configure.ac and downgrade requirement | 20:41 |
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| Mousey | cell phone | 20:41 |
| luke-jr | Mousey: want to buy mine? | 20:41 |
| * Mousey crie | 20:41 | |
| Mousey | luke-jr: is it NIB? | 20:41 |
| luke-jr | NIB? | 20:41 |
| Mousey | new, in box | 20:41 |
| luke-jr | of course not | 20:41 |
| Mousey | oh, then no. ^_^ | 20:42 |
| AndrewBlack | VDVsx, yeah I know doesn´t me I don´t want it still, or even a pandora radio application | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | libre.fm appears to suck royally | 20:42 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 20:42 |
| javispedro | isn't the "YouTube sharing plugin" a glaring omission in the default firmware? | 20:42 |
| VDVsx | AndrewBlack, same here :) | 20:42 |
| AndrewBlack | I was trying to find a linux pandora client I could talk to some people into hildonizing but I cant find on | 20:43 |
| RST38h | meh. uninstalling vagalume =( | 20:43 |
| luke-jr | Mousey: I can include a MicroSD adapter... | 20:44 |
| Mousey | got one. =/ | 20:44 |
| luke-jr | :| | 20:44 |
| javispedro | btw. | 20:44 |
| AndrewBlack | Vagalume is going to lose just about all its users | 20:45 |
| javispedro | the RSS app is not refreshing for me. where would I start debugging that? :) | 20:45 |
| Mousey | well, not the n810 users ^_^ | 20:45 |
| luke-jr | wtf is Vagalume? | 20:45 |
| javispedro | s/refreshing/autodownloading | 20:45 |
| Myrtti | er, herm. | 20:46 |
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| Myrtti | http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/12/14/vagalume-0-8-released-now-with-support-for-libre-fm/#comment-20580 | 20:47 |
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| Myrtti | *shrug* | 20:48 |
| lardman|home | VDVsx: looking at the tests, how did you disable them? Edit the Makefile? | 20:48 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, I didn't disabled the test, but you can disable them in the rules file | 20:48 |
| lardman|home | ah, indeed you can | 20:49 |
| VDVsx | lardman|home, these lines: ( cd tests ; $(MAKE) smallcheck ) | 20:49 |
| lardman|home | yep, got it, thanks | 20:50 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, , now I noticed "smallcheck", glad they didn't implemented the extensive/long check :D will take ages :D | 20:52 |
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| lardman|home | :) | 20:53 |
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| lardman|home | just commented out all the checks | 20:53 |
| lardman|home | will build and upload, with the FORTRAN wrappers | 20:53 |
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| crashanddie | yo lardman|home | 20:54 |
| lardman|home | hey crashanddie | 20:54 |
| VDVsx | hey crashanddie, already in the far far way land ? :D | 20:55 |
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| hrw | re | 20:57 |
| MaceG1 | ugh | 20:58 |
| _berto_ | guys | 20:58 |
| _berto_ | I tried to talk to the last.fm guys several times | 20:58 |
| _berto_ | but I got no reply at all | 20:58 |
| AndrewBlack | wonder if http://projects.gnome.org/rhythmbox/ could be ported to n900 to make use of the last.fm player in it | 21:00 |
| _berto_ | in theory that doesn't make a difference, they say that you cannot use last.fm on a phone | 21:00 |
| _berto_ | no matter the app you use | 21:00 |
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| _berto_ | you _can_ use vagalume with last.fm on a n900 for that matter | 21:01 |
| _berto_ | it's just that it's not enabled by default | 21:01 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx: no, still in California | 21:01 |
| pupnik | do you guys have to copy headers from your host system into your scratchbox target like I do? | 21:01 |
| AndrewBlack | _berto_ they said you can´t use it on mobile but if Iḿ using it on wifi tehy can tell its coming from a mobile | 21:01 |
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| _berto_ | they cannot tell the difference | 21:02 |
| pupnik | root@maemo-desktop:/scratchbox/users/maemo/home/maemo# cp -r /usr/include/gdbm* /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/include/ | 21:02 |
| Myrtti | _berto_: when this discussion was hot with mobbler, the response from lastfm was that they'll co-operate with software developers to make sure their apps work | 21:02 |
| AndrewBlack | _berto_, thas why I meant | 21:02 |
| Myrtti | so I'm a bit sceptic on "cannot use last.fm on a phone" | 21:03 |
| _berto_ | Myrtti: I'm a bit too, but I tried to get confirmation from them and I didn't get any | 21:03 |
| AndrewBlack | _berto_ from the looks of it last.fm is removed not just disabled by default | 21:03 |
| AndrewBlack | on valgaume | 21:03 |
| _berto_ | AndrewBlack: well, enabling it is a matter of downloading a file and importing it into vagalume | 21:04 |
| luke-jr | just remind them N900 is not a phone | 21:04 |
| luke-jr | :p | 21:04 |
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| hrw | _berto_: well.. would be also good to generate own API key too | 21:05 |
| AndrewBlack | _berto_ what file is that? | 21:05 |
| Myrtti | they're not impossible people to discuss with. And perhaps as mobbler people too about their discussion with last.fm | 21:05 |
| _berto_ | AndrewBlack: http://vagalume.igalia.com/faq.html | 21:05 |
| hrw | pupnik: you do ugly think | 21:05 |
| AndrewBlack | extras-devel is not wanting to paly nice with me today | 21:05 |
| hrw | pupnik: apt-get install libgdbm-dev instead | 21:05 |
| _berto_ | AndrewBlack: something like this one: http://gitorious.org/vagalume/vagalume/blobs/raw/vagalume-0.8/data/servers.xml.in | 21:06 |
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| pupnik | hrw apt-get install from *within* the armel target? i cant remember : | 21:07 |
| AndrewBlack | _berto_, thanks | 21:07 |
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| pupnik | libgdbm-dev is already on host system | 21:07 |
| hrw | pupnik: exactly | 21:07 |
| pupnik | ta | 21:07 |
| hrw | pupnik: host != target | 21:07 |
| Myrtti | _berto_: that's not a solution for endusers though. | 21:07 |
| pupnik | things like autoconf it finds from host system, but not includes. quite sensible, now that i think. | 21:07 |
| _berto_ | if someone manages to get a reply from last.fm wrt this I'll be happy to release a new version for the n900 | 21:07 |
| hrw | pupnik: always keep your system clean by using packages - otherwise you will loose track what you broke inside | 21:07 |
| _berto_ | Myrtti: yes, I know | 21:07 |
| Lynoure | How does one get those pretty top-part-of-the-screen menus in maemo when making an app with qt? | 21:08 |
| hrw | pupnik: if it finds it in host then it is broken | 21:08 |
| hrw | Lynoure: use QActions | 21:08 |
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| hrw | Lynoure: create QMenuBar with toplevel QActions | 21:08 |
| hrw | Lynoure: no menus, no submenus, just toplevel entries | 21:08 |
| Lynoure | hrw: Ah, toplevel. Thanks | 21:09 |
| hrw | I think that I will write 'how to Qt on maemo5' blog post | 21:09 |
| Myrtti | _berto_: surely it should be you who should be getting a response? A random member of the audience doesn't really make any effect on the last.fm people, I somehow have the recollection that the staff had a vagalume user too | 21:09 |
| hrw | but not today | 21:09 |
| pupnik | why does target ship with broken networking still | 21:09 |
| _berto_ | Myrtti: yes, I know they used it in the N800 at least | 21:09 |
| Lynoure | I was amused how an QAction with text Exit or Close gets heaved out of the File menu to be on the same level as the menus | 21:10 |
| hrw | pupnik: thats scratchbox and maemosdk is beyond my knowledge | 21:10 |
| Lynoure | But if I use Sulje instead, it stays =) | 21:10 |
| hrw | Lynoure: my app had File/Open and File/Exit buttons | 21:10 |
| Lynoure | Funny little workaround they have. | 21:10 |
| hrw | Lynoure: you can also get Qt 4.6 from extras-devel instead of Qt 4.5 ones. | 21:11 |
| Lynoure | hrw: I only had File->Exit and Help->About and was left wondering about the difference in behaviour before a bit of experimentation | 21:11 |
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| Lynoure | hrw: I think I'm not ready for tech previews, yet | 21:11 |
| Myrtti | omnomnom curry | 21:12 |
| AndrewBlack | _berto_, is that api the same as default one or did you change it? | 21:12 |
| hrw | Lynoure: UI is better hildonized but yes, thats TP still | 21:12 |
| _berto_ | AndrewBlack: i'm using the new api now | 21:12 |
| GAN900 | Myrtti, now you've gone and made me hungry. | 21:12 |
| _berto_ | but you can still use the old one, there's a setting in the config file | 21:12 |
| Lynoure | hrw: still have problems with the stable version, like QApplication::beep() not beeping | 21:13 |
| hrw | Lynoure: #qt-maemo | 21:13 |
| Lynoure | (not on my laptop, not in scratchbox) | 21:13 |
| Lynoure | hrw: thanks :) | 21:13 |
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| hrw | Lynoure: maybe also #maemo-devel | 21:13 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 21:14 | |
| * timeless_mbp needs to write another control panel | 21:14 | |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: which now? | 21:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrw: "Give your Presence Account a name" | 21:15 |
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| Lynoure | hrw: I think I'll start with #qt-maemo and consider than scarier place later =) | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | if you create a SIP account, its name is "SIP" | 21:15 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: lovely! | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | (actually, its name is "") | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | (but it defaults to showing "SIP") | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | if you have 2 SIP accounts, then they're both shown as "SIP" | 21:15 |
| pupnik | ok to fix maemo VMware sdk networking, cp /etc/resolv.conf to /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf | 21:15 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: finally I will be able to name my Jabber/SIP accounts | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | which is of course... very helpful | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: ayup | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | so i take it, you'd use it | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: can you find an icon for me? | 21:16 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: add option to temporary disable accounts too - please, please | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | "temporarily" ==? | 21:16 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: what kind of icon? | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | well, each control panel item needs an icon | 21:16 |
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| hrw | timeless_mbp: "do not connect to this Jabber now because it is work account and I am on holidays" | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: you can add a status for that | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a soccer icon which is "Test Ekiga" | 21:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | (actually, the name of the status is "Test", but all it enables is Ekiga, so functionally it's Test Ekiga) | 21:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | and if the fact that you can do this with the 'status' feature isn't discoverable, well, .... | 21:18 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: thx - did not noticed it before | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't say i'm shocked | 21:18 |
| hrw | hard to find a bit | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | well... the sad thing is, it's roughly where it belongs | 21:19 |
| timeless_mbp | just poorly advertised | 21:19 |
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| hrw | right | 21:20 |
| timeless_mbp | got a better word than 'status'? | 21:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's roughly a configuration | 21:21 |
| timeless_mbp | but that doesn't fit | 21:21 |
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| hrw | timeless_mbp: but why you write separate control panel for it? | 21:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | for which? | 21:22 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: should not name be part of 'IM & Chat accounts' (or how it is in English)? | 21:22 |
| timeless_mbp | to let people rename accounts? | 21:22 |
| hrw | yep | 21:22 |
| timeless_mbp | because the ui designer omitted it | 21:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm not going to spend a year trying to convince the ui designer that he or she is ... | 21:22 |
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| hrw | timeless_mbp: and thats why we will get official control panel to rename things definied in other official control panel? | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i work on the browser | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd get it from extras | 21:23 |
| hrw | ok | 21:23 |
| hrw | insane anyway | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | just like my localization would come from extras | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | (just like a decent clock database will be in extras, i need to push that this weekend) | 21:24 |
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| hrw | timeless_mbp: and you cannot even request it to be added by reporting bug in bugtracker because 'it is enhancement which was not designed so deserve to get lost in brainstorm only' | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | that's better than internally | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | internally we don't even have a brainstorm | 21:24 |
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| hrw | timeless_mbp: I would prefer to not have BS anyway | 21:25 |
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| w00t | timeless_mbp: that sounds like a rather bad system then | 21:25 |
| hrw | but thats me - outsider which do not track any of maemo ML or forums | 21:25 |
| AndrewBlack | anyone getting network connection error with vagalume? | 21:25 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: you think i like BS? | 21:26 |
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| hrw | timeless_mbp: nope, I do not think so | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | oh good | 21:27 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: I think that you are sane person | 21:27 |
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| Myrtti | I wouldn't mind brainstorm if you could make comments like in ubuntu brainstorm | 21:28 |
| javispedro | you *could* make comments | 21:28 |
| javispedro | it's been removed. | 21:28 |
| javispedro | (in the maemo.org BS) | 21:29 |
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| javispedro | s/in/from | 21:29 |
| Myrtti | oh well... | 21:29 |
| w00t | there's a bs forum though | 21:29 |
| w00t | (on tmo) | 21:29 |
| hrw | w00t: show me developers which likes forums | 21:29 |
| Myrtti | forums are SHITE | 21:29 |
| w00t | hrw: I am one | 21:29 |
| hrw | w00t: I am one who do not and knew few more | 21:30 |
| Myrtti | after having moderated several forums for several years, I will not use any new ones even if my life would depend on it | 21:30 |
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| w00t | hrw: sure, I can give you examples both ways, but you asked for an example and I gave you one | 21:30 |
| hrw | sure | 21:30 |
| w00t | hrw: it's irrelevant anyway: he asked to make comments, I pointed him in the direction to do so | 21:30 |
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| Myrtti | who? | 21:30 |
| Myrtti | me? | 21:31 |
| hrw | sure | 21:31 |
| Myrtti | a-ha. | 21:31 |
| Myrtti | stupid English language and gender specific pronomins | 21:31 |
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| w00t | i'm preparing to eat dinner after starving, so i'm not as clear as i could bre | 21:31 |
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| hrw | Myrtti: which lang is your native? | 21:32 |
| Myrtti | hrw: Finnish, ofc ;-) | 21:32 |
| ifreq | Finnish ftw | 21:32 |
| * konttori was just reading http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=374 and was impressed. Very nice. | 21:32 | |
| Myrtti | w00t: no, it's not you, it's the pronoun | 21:32 |
| hrw | Myrtti: my native is Polish and we have more complicated grammar then English has | 21:32 |
| jeremiah | Myrtti: I thought it was pink | 21:32 |
| ifreq | Myrtti: btw theres #n900 on ircnet if youre bored someday :P | 21:33 |
| ifreq | (and ircnet user) | 21:33 |
| Myrtti | ifreq: I gave up on that shit hole some years ago. I'm still online there but don't bother with any channels | 21:33 |
| ifreq | ok | 21:33 |
| ruskie | hmm anyone have an iptables package for fremantle? and a nat module? | 21:33 |
| ifreq | dont give up for your life yet. | 21:33 |
| Myrtti | ifreq: I'm cutting down my channels in freenode too... | 21:34 |
| VDVsx | konttori, look at the code and you'll be even more impressed :P | 21:34 |
| konttori | I have been digging a bit onto the recent qt code announcements and I'm wildly impressed | 21:35 |
| ifreq | Myrtti: nice pages btw :) layout is very nice | 21:36 |
| konttori | like the openbossa code for showing the weather demo | 21:36 |
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| VDVsx | QML is very impressive, with a few lines of code you can do a game, for e.g the samegame is around 300 lines IIRC | 21:36 |
| hrw | VDVsx: my C++ coded moduleplayer is 347 loc | 21:37 |
| VDVsx | hrw, what's that ? :) | 21:37 |
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| VDVsx | who wants to give the final thumb up to supertux: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/supertux-stable/0.1.3-1.1maemo12/ | 21:37 |
| arachnist | VDVsx: well, it's QT. you can get a lot stuff done in short time | 21:38 |
| hrw | VDVsx: check my blog - I posted about it | 21:38 |
| VDVsx | our friend with Scandinavian keyboards will appreciate ;) | 21:38 |
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| * hrw -> out. my daughter just came to grab me | 21:38 | |
| VDVsx | arachnist, QML is more javascript, but still | 21:38 |
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| VDVsx | hrw|gone, your blog, lol, url ? | 21:39 |
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| Myrtti | ifreq: I can't take credit, the design is not mine | 21:39 |
| javispedro | argh, javascript! | 21:39 |
| woglinde | hi javis | 21:39 |
| GAN900 | VDVsx, see Planet. | 21:39 |
| javispedro | hi woglinde | 21:40 |
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| BabelO__ | evening | 21:40 |
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| * VDVsx hits javispedro with the javascript black bible | 21:40 | |
| VDVsx | GAN900, thanks for the hint | 21:40 |
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| VDVsx | GAN900, humm, can find anything about hrw|gone 's game | 21:42 |
| VDVsx | *can't | 21:43 |
| VDVsx | ah ok | 21:43 |
| VDVsx | player, lol | 21:43 |
| * javispedro thinks that for javascripty GUIs webOS is the only one that gets it right. fortunately, he hates javascripty guis. | 21:44 | |
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| wazd_n800 | ok, now I can't even order DDP | 21:46 |
| wazd_n800 | nothing happens | 21:46 |
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| javispedro | konttori: btw, so in PR1.1 fullscreened apps are non composited by default? (no need for special window properties?) | 21:48 |
| konttori | yeah, unless you request e.g. the composited zooming | 21:48 |
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| konttori | of you have any window on the stack that needs composition | 21:48 |
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| konttori | it's nice and automatic | 21:48 |
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| konttori | in pr1.2 you can also just set a window to autorotate mode, so you don't need to care about the rotation anymore. | 21:49 |
| javispedro | it works fine on current release with the _HILDON_NON_COMPOSITED property | 21:49 |
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| javispedro | the speed bump is impressive :) | 21:49 |
| VDVsx | konttori, what about the input focus problem, still the same or was fixed ? | 21:50 |
| javispedro | though I'm still trying to get animation_actor stuff working with SDL. | 21:50 |
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| VDVsx | wazd_n800, no N900 for you, maybe the next one, we'l see | 21:51 |
| VDVsx | :D | 21:51 |
| konttori | VDVsx: what input focus prob? | 21:52 |
| konttori | javispedro: yeah, you can use the non-composited even now. It will just also be automatic for fullscreen windows in the future (which is convenient imho) | 21:52 |
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| javispedro | konttori: agreed (I think compiz does something similar) | 21:53 |
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| VDVsx | konttori, in maemo5 all windows need an explicit XSetInputFocus() call, that a bit against the specs | 21:53 |
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| v2px | hi. how can i change the bg/fg colors in osso-xterm? | 21:53 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: that's not true, see my posts | 21:53 |
| konttori | and also the rotation change is there as a convenience | 21:53 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, where ? | 21:54 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36952 | 21:54 |
| javispedro | and SDL apps don't have the call. (neither do Gtk+ apps, fwiw) | 21:54 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, I'm not sure :D | 21:55 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, because GTK+ implemented that, same for Qt | 21:55 |
| javispedro | Qt actually does the call | 21:55 |
| javispedro | Gtk does not | 21:55 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, one more t-shirt maybe) | 21:55 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-maemo-developers/qt/qt-maemo/commit/fbf22e64599b220cf95ca90d27d0eb6cdeaa91fe | 21:55 |
| javispedro | (and according to Kimmo that's because they didn't talk to him or something like that ;) ) | 21:55 |
| RST38h | Ok, I have fixed the Maemo config tab in FBreader | 21:56 |
| RST38h | Anything else you people want me to do? Enable tap scrolling by default? | 21:56 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, so there's a solution for that ? | 21:56 |
| RST38h | mooo javis | 21:56 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, we can disable that call under Qt for example and it will work ? | 21:57 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: the solution is to ensure proper window flags | 21:57 |
| javispedro | hiyo RST | 21:57 |
| RST38h | new app icon! | 21:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: so, how about a new fbreader app icon? =) | 21:58 |
| GAN900 | VDVsx, we need maemo.org shirts. Make it happen. :P | 21:58 |
| konttori | RST38h: please enable tap to turn the page by default! | 21:58 |
| konttori | would be great! | 21:58 |
| RST38h | konttori: there are differing opinions on this one | 21:58 |
| * RST38h is kinda at loss | 21:58 | |
| VDVsx | javispedro, so seems that 99 % of the X linux apps aren't using proper flags, that's a bit funny | 21:58 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, hmm | 21:59 |
| woglinde | hm which flags are needed for virtual keyboard? | 21:59 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, I would love to have the library redone in native widgets. *g* | 21:59 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: it wouldn't surprise me the least, considering the horrors I've recently seen wandering through th SDL windowing code... | 21:59 |
| konttori | RST38h: there can't be. Mine is the only one that matters ... kidding. But seriously, what are the other opinions? | 21:59 |
| wazd_n800 | RST38h, maybe | 22:00 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, I really dislike tap turning, but as far as new users discovering scrolling methods. . . . | 22:00 |
| RST38h | konttori: tap scrolling tends to accidentally scroll pages when you open menus etc | 22:00 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, a bit strange for me, but I'll try to convince the EFL guys to fix that a well, because seems that nokia will not change that | 22:00 |
| VDVsx | actually they've a good point on that | 22:00 |
| RST38h | konttori: also it is kinda difficult to get working with NITs, you have to get parameters exactly right | 22:01 |
| RST38h | konttori: 150ms delay, no-thumb-only, 10-100 pressure does it for me though | 22:01 |
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| RST38h | and also tap scrolling tends to override list selection which is bad | 22:01 |
| VDVsx | wazd_n800, already have a maemo.org t-shirt ? | 22:01 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, set the defaults properly, anyway. | 22:01 |
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| RST38h | GAN: I am not even sure the above mumbo jumbo can be called proper :) | 22:02 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx: sawfish is a wm that follows h-d's behaviour | 22:02 |
| javispedro | from some debian bugreports about "x apps that don't set the inputfocus hint" | 22:02 |
| konttori | RST38h: interesting. Perhaps you can just diable the tap turn page while any setting window is visible and re-enable after | 22:02 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, no, that's a good candidate) | 22:03 |
| RST38h | konttori: oh, that is not the problem | 22:03 |
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| RST38h | konttori: the problem for example is tap turning being triggered by out-of-full-screen taps, menu selections, etc | 22:03 |
| VDVsx | wazd_n800, you said above "one more t-shirt" | 22:03 |
| javispedro | so if Debian considers apps not setting the InputFocus hint "faulty", why wouldn't Maemo ? ;) | 22:03 |
| GAN900 | Quim really needs to send me my FiF shirt. | 22:03 |
| RST38h | He will send ou FiH | 22:03 |
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| ruskie | hmm am I the only one having problems with extras-testing? | 22:04 |
| ruskie | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/l/lzo2/liblzo2-2_2.03-1maemo3_armel.deb Size mismatch | 22:04 |
| ruskie | W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG E40DC434616730BD maemo.org Extras repositories (Fremantle Extras) <repositories@maemo.org> | 22:04 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, I have maemo penguin t-shirt | 22:04 |
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| VDVsx | GAN900, Quim really needs to send something to wazd_n800 | 22:04 |
| VDVsx | at least some chocolates :P | 22:04 |
| konttori | RST38h: ah, I see. Well, filter out when in non-fullscreen mode, the taps that have click location of the menu area? | 22:04 |
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| rdorsch | Does anybody know where maemo 5 stores contacts information? If yes, is it a regular vcf format and could I simply copy from kaddressbook? | 22:04 |
| ruskie | rdorsch, iirc it's evolution data server | 22:05 |
| inz | That was at least the case for 4 | 22:05 |
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| inz | And seems to be for 5 too | 22:06 |
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| inz | Which, at least on ubuntu, seems to store contacts in a Berkeley DB file | 22:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | inz: you in town? | 22:07 |
| GAN900 | wazd, can't you use a proxy or summuch? | 22:08 |
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| inz | timeless, if, by town, you mean Orivesi, then yes. =) | 22:08 |
| wazd_n800 | GAN900, I've registered proper Helsinki address | 22:08 |
| GAN900 | Hrm, RST38h, how much work would a 12-hour mode for the progressbar clock require? | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | inz: i'm pretty sure there are only a few places in .FI that i'd consider 'towns', and in town is limited to the one i'm in :) | 22:09 |
| AbstractW | Well, in other news, I got a vnc server working on my iphone. | 22:09 |
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| inz | timeless, well, then I'm in a village, and the anwer would be no. | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 22:09 |
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| rdorsch | ruskie: correct, I found evolution-data-server-addressbook | 22:10 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, by the way the fullscreen button seems a bit buggy. | 22:11 |
| ifreq | was someone running conky allready on the n900? | 22:12 |
| RST38h | GAN: ? | 22:12 |
| rdorsch | does anybody know, where evolution-data-server-addressbook stores its vcf files? | 22:12 |
| ifreq | ah seems so.. cool.. | 22:12 |
| GAN900 | I've had it appear a couple times in windowed and it sticks around in the dashboard when you switch. | 22:12 |
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| zash | rdorsch: in /dev/null | 22:12 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, tapping the search button in the toolbar makes the fullscreen fullscreen button appear here. | 22:13 |
| zash | rdorsch: evolution-addressbook-export | 22:13 |
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| hrw|gone | VDVsx: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/ | 22:13 |
| GAN900 | Then switching to the dashboard with ctrl-backspace or camkeyd doesn't make it go away. | 22:13 |
| RST38h | GAN: A moment | 22:13 |
| RST38h | GAN: I do not see it appear when I cick search | 22:14 |
| zash | rdorsch: and theres a db in ~/.evolution/addressbook/... | 22:14 |
| RST38h | GAN: A moment | 22:14 |
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| VDVsx | hrw|gone, yeah, I miss read your sentence above and thought it was a game :) | 22:15 |
| hrw|gone | ;D | 22:15 |
| RST38h | GAN: Ok, I see the task switcher behaviour | 22:15 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, I've also toggled fullscreen using a bound key. | 22:15 |
| VDVsx | hrw|gone, I saw your post in the planet some time ago | 22:15 |
| RST38h | GAN: Using bound key here works fine | 22:16 |
| RST38h | The out-of-fullscreen button goes away | 22:16 |
| GAN900 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4185834134/ | 22:16 |
| GAN900 | Wonder how I got it in a inconsistent state. . . . | 22:16 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, restarting FBReader fixes the search dialog. | 22:17 |
| hrw|gone | v2px: tap menu, select 'Font' and on a bottom you have two colours | 22:17 |
| GAN900 | Not sure how I broke it. | 22:17 |
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| v2px | hrw|gone: already found it. thx | 22:17 |
| RST38h | GAN: This one I can repeat (with task switcher) | 22:18 |
| RST38h | GAN: Not much I can do about it, have to talk to the guy who made the widget | 22:18 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, ah, it's camkeyd. | 22:18 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, breaks when I switch with the camera key while the widget is showing. | 22:18 |
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| RST38h | oh. I am not fixing this one for sure :) | 22:19 |
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| GAN900 | Fair enough. ;) | 22:20 |
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| RST38h | Next one is probably xchat | 22:21 |
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| GAN900 | For? | 22:27 |
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| pupnik | amiga modules hrw woot :) | 22:33 |
| woglinde | pupnik | 22:33 |
| pupnik | evening! | 22:33 |
| woglinde | pupnik hm x-fade has to promote libxmuu from sdk to somewhere | 22:34 |
| woglinde | so apt-get install qtnx will work | 22:34 |
| woglinde | but whole stuff is now extras-devel | 22:34 |
| pupnik | ok will test | 22:35 |
| hrw | pupnik: ;D | 22:35 |
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| timperi | amiga modules hrw? | 22:38 |
| hrw | timperi: any played with modplug | 22:39 |
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| hrw | but app is centered on Protracker ones only | 22:39 |
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| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, ping? | 22:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | pong | 22:40 |
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| hrw | timperi: but I use Phonon (so GStreamer) so in theory it can play anything. but option to load other files was killed already | 22:41 |
| GAN900 | Is there a way to make the browsing history per-session/clear-on-quit? | 22:41 |
| GAN900 | Since long histories tend to cause buginess and slowdowns. | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | doubtful | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | ie private browsing | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | you could probably make a tiny app that ate the typed_urls file | 22:43 |
| GAN900 | Or just limit the history? | 22:43 |
| timeless_mbp | but that's just the thing that's used for the urlbar | 22:43 |
| timeless_mbp | you should be able to ask gecko for a 1day history | 22:44 |
| GAN900 | That'd work. | 22:45 |
| pupnik | this one woglinde ? /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/var/cache/apt/archives/libxmuu1_2%3a1.0.4-1_armel.deb | 22:46 |
| timperi | hrw: i don't know what you're talking about, the phrase amiga modules just catched my curiosity :D phonon has something to do with qt right? are you doing an app to play amiga modules? | 22:46 |
| woglinde | pupnik jo | 22:46 |
| hrw | timperi: yes | 22:47 |
| timperi | hrw: nice :D | 22:47 |
| hrw | timperi: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/11/30/i-wrote-module-player-in-qt/ | 22:47 |
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| pupnik | video quality is really stunning. display color stays true from various angles. | 22:54 |
| woglinde | pupnik nx works? | 22:54 |
| pupnik | ehm testing sorryr\ | 22:55 |
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| Milo- | I finally got my N900 and now the downloads section is down :P | 22:57 |
| Milo- | bad luck :( | 22:57 |
| woglinde | Milo-???? | 22:58 |
| Milo- | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/ecoach/ for example | 22:58 |
| Milo- | I get Server Error | 22:58 |
| Milo- | Error 500 | 22:58 |
| wiretapped | is it just me or is the n900 call history lacking some key features? | 22:58 |
| wiretapped | I can only see which contact called, not which number they called from | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | Milo-: use extras | 22:58 |
| wiretapped | and i can't see call durations | 22:58 |
| wiretapped | wtf | 22:58 |
| Milo- | timeless_mbp huh where? | 22:59 |
| hrw | wiretapped: its not only you | 22:59 |
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| wiretapped | and where is OTR?! | 23:00 |
| wiretapped | the missing OTR is my #1 complaint so far | 23:00 |
| wiretapped | which is pretty good, i guess | 23:00 |
| hrw | wiretapped: that app just sucks | 23:00 |
| wiretapped | overall I am liking the n900 very much :) | 23:00 |
| hrw | otr? | 23:00 |
| Milo- | wiretapped OTR? | 23:00 |
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| wiretapped | http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/ | 23:00 |
| wiretapped | used to be included in pidgin | 23:00 |
| Milo- | btw, accessing SMS was rather hard :o | 23:01 |
| wiretapped | but was dropped in diablo for unknown reason | 23:01 |
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| wiretapped | the chinook otr worked with the diablo pidgin | 23:01 |
| wiretapped | but the fremantle pidgin is newer | 23:01 |
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| * hrw -> sleep | 23:01 | |
| hrw | bye | 23:01 |
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| lardman|home | urgh, have to do some work, reboot time, bbiab | 23:01 |
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| * wiretapped doesn't log in to jabber without otr, too irritating | 23:02 | |
| wiretapped | since adium on osx and pidgin on ubuntu both support it, nearly everyone i talk to uses otr | 23:02 |
| wiretapped | so i have no jabber on my n900 currently :( | 23:02 |
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| Milo- | timeless_mbp where is this 'extras' section? | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | ~maemo-extras | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | ~extras | 23:03 |
| infobot | rumour has it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 23:03 |
| wiretapped | _|Nix|_: why isn't OTR in your pidgin packages anymore? | 23:03 |
| wiretapped | _|Nix|_: thanks for providing it for so long btw, i've been using your port of it since the 770 :) | 23:03 |
| Milo- | that does not tell me how to access extras | 23:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | it doesn't? | 23:05 |
| woglinde | hi felipec | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly you follow the instructions under "Using Extras" | 23:05 |
| RST38h | GAN: Ok, I have found a standard GNOME icon for the dictionary. It does the job of an app icon | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | once you've enabled extras in application manager, you use Application Manager to install software | 23:05 |
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| Milo- | timeless_mbp see, now that is the kind of information you should have mentioned in the first place | 23:06 |
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| Milo- | mentioned there is a page somewhere that tells you how to use extras | 23:07 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 23:07 | |
| Scummer | milo: i think your attitude is a little off | 23:07 |
| * timeless_mbp isn't wearing a customer support hat | 23:07 | |
| felipec | woglinde: hi :) | 23:07 |
| Milo- | I had no idea about extras existing | 23:08 |
| mece | Hello, could someone explain what "Ignoring version from wrong domain: ..." means in the app manager log on the N900? | 23:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | mece: roughly ham pins packages by domain | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | if you get a package from the 'nokia' domain | 23:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | then upgrades should come from the 'nokia' domain | 23:08 |
| mece | ah I see. | 23:08 |
| Milo- | sorry if my attitude is little off, but if my original complaint was that all the download pages are currently not working | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | if you get packages from domain 'foo', then generally, updates should come from domain 'foo' | 23:08 |
| mece | but.. | 23:09 |
| mece | extras vs testing vs devel | 23:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | mece: the goal is to prevent a package from e.g. extras-devel from hosing the system by replacing a package from the core | 23:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | mece: repositories by name are not actually 'domains' | 23:09 |
| mece | ok good stuff actually thanks :) | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | that detail is um... well, a detail | 23:09 |
| * Jaffa unfoods. | 23:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: the right way or the wrong way? | 23:10 |
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| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: The "mmm, omelette & chips" way. | 23:10 |
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| * timeless_mbp fails to parse that train of thought | 23:11 | |
| * timeless_mbp moves along | 23:11 | |
| wiretapped | so... the first few days i had my n900 i was really disappointed with the battery life. | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: As in, food complete; omelette & chips good; beer good | 23:11 |
| wiretapped | turns out it was just skype | 23:11 |
| wiretapped | after logging out of skype, suddenly it can last more than three hours | 23:11 |
| mece | ? | 23:11 |
| mece | I get 11-12 with skype and 2 xmpp accounts constantly on. | 23:12 |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 23:12 |
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| wiretapped | i noticed it was transferring 100KB/sec over my wifi | 23:12 |
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| wiretapped | mece: is skype logged in over wifi or 3G? | 23:12 |
| mece | wiretapped, well that' doesn't sound right.. | 23:12 |
| mece | either, depending on where I am | 23:13 |
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| wiretapped | me too | 23:13 |
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| mece | timeless_mbp, I have one little problem here. I'd like to use the devel version of witter, and the app manager doesn't feel like letting me do that, even after I uninstalled the -testing version. | 23:14 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 23:14 |
| timeless_mbp | well um | 23:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | maybe i'm wrong? :) | 23:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure i know where that metadata lives | 23:14 |
| timeless_mbp | but mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ would have it | 23:15 |
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| crashanddie | so what's the deal with the moderator topic? Why is there no feedback? | 23:16 |
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| Myrtti | mnah mnah mnah | 23:17 |
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| mece | Myrtti, no no, it's Mahnah mahnah. | 23:18 |
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| melmoth | ping Macer | 23:18 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Which moderator topic? | 23:18 |
| lardman|home | bloody Garage, I waited an age to try to upload the .dsc for fftw and it wouldn't go anywhere | 23:18 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: in community | 23:20 |
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| pupnik | well handbrake is gimped. can't specify target resolution optimal to n900 | 23:21 |
| pupnik | snrk | 23:21 |
| crashanddie | lardman|home: friggin fuck the world? | 23:22 |
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| woglinde | pupnik hms | 23:22 |
| jiajia | hei guys someone said iphone 3gs is better than nokia n900 i was so mad , can u tell me something n900 is much better then the iphon | 23:24 |
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| inz | jiajia, it has xterm by default!-) | 23:24 |
| w00t | not needing to jailbreak it to do whatever I want is a good start | 23:24 |
| ljp | can play flash from the web browser | 23:24 |
| w00t | I don't like feeling like a criminal with a device that I purchased.. | 23:24 |
| jiajia | yeah that is right | 23:24 |
| melmoth | jiajia: you can have several app open at the same time ? | 23:24 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: tmo? | 23:24 |
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| ljp | indeed, multitasking is one big shortcomming of the iphone | 23:25 |
| jiajia | melmoth: i will show him now that kick his iphone ass haha | 23:25 |
| tank-man | <-- long time palm os user, I don't need no stinking multitasking | 23:25 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: aye | 23:27 |
| w00t | tank-man: you don't, until you can | 23:27 |
| w00t | and then you realise just how annoying it was before | 23:27 |
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| melmoth | you dont need it, you can have one pam to listen to music, one palm to send email, one palm to play chess and so on :) | 23:27 |
| lardman|home | crashanddie: indeed | 23:27 |
| ljp | n900's camera blows the iphones out of the water | 23:27 |
| lardman|home | crashanddie: but especially when I have other things to do | 23:28 |
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| * Myrtti smells a musky, foresty smell | 23:28 | |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: I'm minimising myself to one newposts check of tmo per day. Started again yesterday | 23:28 |
| ljp | and you dont have the man telling you want you can install on your device | 23:28 |
| pupnik | can't find nx server for 64 bit debian woglinde | 23:28 |
| woglinde | pupnik use ppa/freenx | 23:29 |
| woglinde | mom | 23:29 |
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| woglinde | pupnik -> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/freenx-team/ppa/ubuntu VERSION main | 23:29 |
| woglinde | args | 23:29 |
| woglinde | pupnik -> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/freenx-team/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main | 23:29 |
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| woglinde | apt-get install freenx-server | 23:30 |
| gilead | hi | 23:30 |
| woglinde | pupnik -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX | 23:30 |
| pupnik | ty! | 23:30 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=421858&postcount=72 | 23:30 |
| woglinde | pupnik if the offical of the a testproject decides its worth | 23:30 |
| woglinde | I will be envolved in a project with most nx users since ever | 23:31 |
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| woglinde | will be 5k potential users | 23:31 |
| pupnik | very cool. lots of commercial possibilities. | 23:31 |
| gilead | I am looking for some help with ESBox / CDT / Autotools: The symbol parser does not recognize my include paths I added using PKG_CHECK_MODULES and INCLUDES=$(MOD_CFLAGS). | 23:32 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: Ah, didn't it take Quim ages - Reggie's very handsoff | 23:32 |
| woglinde | pupnik I hacked qtnx and freenx and libpam-ldap so its making single sign on for windows | 23:32 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, can you tell me your e-mail please? | 23:32 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: but why? It's not like he's got heaps of work or anything <sarcasm> | 23:33 |
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| woglinde | gilead aeh? | 23:33 |
| woglinde | gilead do you have the source somewhere available and the error message too? | 23:34 |
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| gilead | woglinde: In configure.ac I use PKG_CHECK_MODULES(MOD, [x11 xtst dbus-1]) | 23:34 |
| gilead | woglinde: In Makefile.am I use INCLUDES = $(MOD_CFLAGS) | 23:35 |
| lardman|home | hmm, /me sees loads of stuff in the Fremantle builder queue | 23:35 |
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| lardman|home | VDVsx: have finally managed to push fftw | 23:36 |
| woglinde | gilead and whats in Makefile? | 23:36 |
| gilead | This compiles fine but Texteditor does not find #include <dbus/dbus.h> on symbol, parsing. ("Unresolved inclusion") So I cannot follow symbols using F3 | 23:36 |
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| woglinde | gilead I am using | 23:36 |
| gilead | woglinde: Makefile is fine. | 23:36 |
| Milo- | yay | 23:36 |
| Milo- | the phone crashed for the first time :D | 23:36 |
| woglinde | AC_SUBST([X11_LIBS]) AC_SUBST([X11_CFLAGS]) | 23:37 |
| woglinde | and in Makefile.am | 23:37 |
| Milo- | no it didn't | 23:37 |
| gilead | woglinde: It defines MOD_CFLAGS as MOD_CFLAGS = -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0 -I/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/include | 23:37 |
| gilead | woglinde: yeah, I am also using those AC_SUBST statements to have MOD_CFLAGS and MOD_LIBS available in my Makefile.am | 23:38 |
| woglinde | AM_CPPFLAGS = @X11_CFLAGS@ | 23:38 |
| * lardman|home grumbles and tries to write a 2 page abstract | 23:38 | |
| woglinde | and foo_la_LIBADD = @X11_LIBS@ | 23:38 |
| woglinde | for libs | 23:38 |
| gilead | Ok, I just tried AM_CPPFLAGS = @MOD_CFLAGS@ but this doesn't help. Include file is still unresolved. | 23:39 |
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| woglinde | gilead binpaste the error | 23:39 |
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| woglinde | maybe you are missing some more includes | 23:39 |
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| gilead | wolinde: I don't think so because make works fine. It is just the indexer which does not recognize the include paths. | 23:40 |
| woglinde | ????? | 23:40 |
| woglinde | ~pastebin | 23:41 |
| infobot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste | 23:41 |
| gilead | wogline: What shall I pastebin? Complete project sources? | 23:41 |
| woglinde | the error | 23:41 |
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| asidjazz | what the shit is this http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/nokia-messaging-for-social-networks | 23:42 |
| asidjazz | why isnt it in maemo | 23:42 |
| gilead | woglinde: There is no error. Only that yellow question mark in the text editor and a hover help that says "Unresolved inclusion: dbus/dbus.h" | 23:43 |
| gilead | woglinde: No error message on any console or problems view. At least nothing that I could find... | 23:43 |
| woglinde | aeh | 23:44 |
| woglinde | stupid editr | 23:44 |
| woglinde | ignore it | 23:44 |
| Guest72893 | when is the maemo.org downloads stuff going to start working again? | 23:44 |
| woglinde | guest? | 23:44 |
| woglinde | apt-get update works | 23:44 |
| woglinde | and install too | 23:44 |
| gilead | woglinde: Hm, of course I could. But it is my first time working with DBus, so it would be a help to navigate to include files and declarations from it... | 23:44 |
| Guest72893 | no, the website | 23:45 |
| jeremiah | Guest72893: What sort of downloads are you thinking of? | 23:45 |
| Guest72893 | maemo.org/downloads | 23:45 |
| Milo- | as always, nokia's multimedia player is a failure, is there a better one? | 23:45 |
| woglinde | http://maemo.org works here | 23:45 |
| Guest72893 | when I click on any item I get a 500 | 23:45 |
| jeremiah | Works for me. | 23:45 |
| woglinde | Guest72893 paste the url | 23:46 |
| orbarron | all: anyone knows how I can get internet connections options under settings-->connectivity menu? | 23:46 |
| woglinde | so washing dishes now | 23:46 |
| woglinde | till later | 23:46 |
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| Guest72893 | for example: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/adblock-plus-1.0/ | 23:47 |
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| Guest72893 | " | 23:47 |
| Guest72893 | Server Error | 23:47 |
| Guest72893 | Failed to parse style element 'product_view', content was loaded from '64/product_view', see above for PHP errors." | 23:47 |
| Guest72893 | on every single one :'-( | 23:47 |
| jeremiah | Hmm | 23:47 |
| Milo- | Guest72893 I complained about the same thing and timeless recommended that you should use 'extras' | 23:47 |
| jeremiah | That is in fact an error. | 23:47 |
| jeremiah | But that should not happen. | 23:48 |
| Milo- | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 23:48 |
| jeremiah | I will file a bug and contact those who maintain that code. | 23:48 |
| Milo- | you probably should read that first | 23:48 |
| GAN900 | Milo-, Downloads IS Extras. | 23:48 |
| Milo- | heh | 23:48 |
| GAN900 | It's just a web frontend for the repository. | 23:48 |
| Milo- | well, the web frontend is broken | 23:48 |
| Milo- | so use your phone's application catalog :) | 23:48 |
| GAN900 | Guest72893, just browse with the Application Manager. | 23:49 |
| Milo- | anyways, is there a multimedia player that actually works? | 23:49 |
| GAN900 | Define "works" | 23:49 |
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| GAN900 | the built-in one "works" fine here. | 23:49 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, the thing is with those links, they are really designed to be used in when you are on your device | 23:49 |
| jeremiah | Guest72893: Are you using a Maemo device to view those pages? | 23:50 |
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| Guest72893 | jeremiah, yes, my n900 and both my pcs get the same error | 23:50 |
| Milo- | GAN900 I can't figure out how to create playlists with it | 23:50 |
| jeremiah | Guest72893: Yeah, that shouldn't happen. | 23:50 |
| Milo- | and how to browse files according to a folder, rather than just all of them in a bunch | 23:50 |
| jeremiah | I will file a bug and have an email almost ready to go. | 23:50 |
| Guest72893 | GAN900, ahh, so you need to enable extras in order to see the goodies? :-D | 23:51 |
| Milo- | 23:48:13 Milo- >> http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 23:51 |
| Guest72893 | thanks for your help jeremiah and GAN900 and Milo- | 23:51 |
| GAN900 | Milo-, tap'n'hold. | 23:51 |
| Guest72893 | and veeryone else ;) | 23:52 |
| Guest72893 | *everyone | 23:52 |
| jeremiah | Sure thing - sorry things are working, hopefully they will be shortly. | 23:52 |
| GAN900 | Milo-, they're called ID3 tags. | 23:52 |
| wazd_n800 | VDVsx, PS3 profile is in your inbox) | 23:52 |
| Guest72893 | the link to maemo.org was the first thing I saw but the app manager is really nice (once you enable extras) | 23:52 |
| Milo- | GAN900 ah, thank you :D | 23:52 |
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| GAN900 | As usual, Nokia's out-of-box arrangement inconveniences users in favor of appeasing lawyers and making Ovi managers happy. | 23:53 |
| Mousey | don't forget shareholders | 23:54 |
| jebba900 | i hope nokias strategy doesnt bank too much on ovi.... | 23:54 |
| Guest72893 | :P | 23:54 |
| eitreach | I was just re-flashing my device, and all seems to have gone well. However, I forgot to hold the "u"-key before plugging in the usb cable into my N900 - could that have broken something that I can't see? | 23:55 |
| jeremiah | Is the device smoking? | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | eitreach, no. | 23:55 |
| crashanddie | jebba900: Nokia's strategy is going to rely nearly entirely on Ovi | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | The u key just locks the device in flashing mode so it waits for the flasher. | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | Rather than waiting in flashing mode for a second or two. | 23:56 |
| eitreach | Alright. Thank you. :) | 23:56 |
| eitreach | Just wanted to make sure. | 23:57 |
| Guest72893 | first thing I did was install ogg support :-D | 23:57 |
| GAN900 | Guest72893, /nick <yournick> | 23:58 |
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| richard_12345 | ahh so the n900 doesnt come with a podcasting client | 23:58 |
| richard_12345 | which explains why gpodder is so popular | 23:59 |
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