| RST38h | konttori: vote for it 10 times? =) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| pwnguin | what's the advantage of optification? | 00:00 |
| konttori | won't help because the opt version is not in testing | 00:00 |
| pwnguin | preservation across reflashing? | 00:00 |
| RST38h | konttori: and vote 10 times for every update to it no matter how minor? | 00:00 |
| VDVsx | konttori, you can ask someone with permissions for do that, like marcell or x-fade | 00:00 |
| konttori | optification helps spare precious rootfs space | 00:00 |
| konttori | hmm... marcell it is then on monday | 00:01 |
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| konttori | we are going to push more and more content to the device, and space is at premium | 00:02 |
| jaem | did Nokia give a reason for the way they structured the flash? | 00:02 |
| VDVsx | konttori, optify that new "content" :D | 00:02 |
| jaem | I think I can see why, but from a user's standpoint, it seems rather pessimal | 00:02 |
| mihu | Hi. On the N900, is there some menu item to show your own number? I have looked for it, but found none. At least it's not under Settings -> Telephone. | 00:02 |
| RST38h | jaem: what would you like this reason to be? | 00:02 |
| evo | andre__: case sensitive issues, I have ten albums of the same artist | 00:02 |
| VDVsx | jaem, windows coufh coufh | 00:03 |
| red | mihu: like u wanna set up ur own info alltogether | 00:03 |
| red | or just check what ur phone number currently is? | 00:03 |
| jaem | RST38h, if I could pick their reason, I would just pick one that would have been shot down ;) I was wondering what *their* reason was | 00:03 |
| evo | andre__: 9 went in the same "folder", one not .. multimedia player sees it as it was all UPPERCASE, but I checked everything | 00:03 |
| red | havent found one to see the number, but there was own info tab somewhere, where you could add contact infos etc | 00:03 |
| mihu | red: Just want to check my own phone number that is associated to this SIM. | 00:03 |
| andre__ | evo, uh | 00:04 |
| jaem | mihu, not sure, as I don't have a SIM in mine, but there should be a way to do it, even if it isn't exposed in the UI | 00:04 |
| konttori | jaem: to be honest, it just ended up structured as it is - multitude of reasons, but none to really say that that's the reason | 00:04 |
| jaem | mihu, oh wait - give me a moment | 00:04 |
| RST38h | jaem: I just do not see what is "wrong" with the layout | 00:04 |
| jaem | konttori, fair enough | 00:04 |
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| evo | andre__: I can send you one of those mp3s, if you want to check | 00:04 |
| jaem | RST38h, nothing's wrong with the layout, per se, but 256MB roofs and thus the need for optification just seems messy | 00:04 |
| konttori | the 2 gig home we just figured is enough. Looks like it is. | 00:04 |
| RST38h | oh that | 00:04 |
| jaem | yeah, it is | 00:04 |
| jaem | but it's messy | 00:05 |
| jaem | -shrug- | 00:05 |
| konttori | and we didn't want to steam more from the normally mountable emmc partitions | 00:05 |
| RST38h | jaem: rootfs is on its own chip, that chip has 256MB of ROM | 00:05 |
| jaem | it works, that's fine | 00:05 |
| konttori | it's messy all right. | 00:05 |
| jaem | RST38h, yes, I know | 00:05 |
| red | having to separately click update for all software installed | 00:05 |
| red | pff | 00:05 |
| jaem | that ws my point | 00:05 |
| RST38h | jaem: so, you want a reason why 256MB chip was used? | 00:05 |
| jaem | red, menu -> update all | 00:05 |
| konttori | red, I'm going to get HAM changed to have multiselect in the updates view. | 00:05 |
| andre__ | evo, oh yeah, feel free to :) | 00:05 |
| jaem | RST38h, I was curious, but it's not terribly important | 00:05 |
| VDVsx | jaem, no need to optification in most of the cases, just build the packages to install everything into /opt | 00:05 |
| |R | pupnik: ok, strange though that SNES is at full speed and NES isnt, i was just wondering, q3 is running too now (forgot the pak :P) | 00:06 |
| |R | :) | 00:06 |
| evo | andre__: dcc send is OK for you? | 00:06 |
| konttori | RST38h: 256 was pretty much the only available at the time of deciding on HW | 00:06 |
| jaem | VDVsx, sorry, wrong terminology - that's what I meant | 00:06 |
| jaem | konttori, ah, okay | 00:06 |
| andre__ | evo, email to aklapper at openismus dot com is better :) | 00:06 |
| RST38h | konttori: Yea, I know, that convinient Samsung combo chip? | 00:06 |
| evo | andre__: agreed :) | 00:06 |
| VDVsx | jaem, maemo-optify is for lazy folks :P | 00:06 |
| konttori | well, HW was decided long time ago. | 00:06 |
| pupnik | |R: when i tested snes i got about 22fps, not full speed. | 00:06 |
| * VDVsx hides | 00:06 | |
| konttori | and not by SW guys | 00:06 |
| |R | pupnik: well, i mean, perceived speed, no laggy sound or play :) | 00:07 |
| jaem | konttori, when you click Update All in HAM, it gives you the disclaimer, but shows the details of the first package, as if that was the only one | 00:07 |
| jaem | was that intended? | 00:07 |
| konttori | maemo-optify is definitely for the lazy | 00:07 |
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| konttori | jaem: that should probably be fixed as well at the same time | 00:07 |
| pupnik | please don't make us click 'ok' for each package jaem :) | 00:07 |
| jaem | pupnik, I didn't mean that | 00:07 |
| |R | pupnik: playing life force on the nes is really awkward ... but on my ex-n810 it was fine i think, that's why i'm surprise, but i'll be patient, i was just wondering if i had missed an option :) | 00:07 |
| VDVsx | pupnik, +1 | 00:07 |
| pupnik | yeah :) | 00:08 |
| jaem | I meant that it should give summary info in that dialog, rather than saying "Update All", and then showing you name/version/whatever for only one | 00:08 |
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| jaem | or remove that bit entirely | 00:08 |
| jaem | it's just confusing as-is | 00:08 |
| pupnik | |R i don't want to start whining about the reasons for it. Just know that they are known reasons, and are being looked at. | 00:08 |
| fnordianslip | is there an easy way to rip out the man pages when being lazy and using optify? | 00:08 |
| VDVsx | fnordianslip, edit your rules file | 00:09 |
| pwnguin | i kinda wish debian had a solution to breaking out manpages & translations | 00:09 |
| |R | pupnik: cool! :) | 00:09 |
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| pwnguin | sometimes i _want_ that manpage | 00:09 |
| pwnguin | or documentation | 00:09 |
| pwnguin | or changelog | 00:09 |
| red | any page that has listed good applications btw? apart from maemo select | 00:09 |
| pupnik | do you want a manpages package for extras? | 00:10 |
| jaem | hmm... libqt4-maemo5-* doesn't come with the qt3support package | 00:10 |
| jaem | I guess I'll have to build that myself? | 00:10 |
| pupnik | for, say, basic busybox and unix commands | 00:10 |
| evo | andre__: meanwhile, a brief question :) ... do you think that bug #5634 could be fixed with new firmware? | 00:10 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5634 Deleted IMAP messages are not expunged | 00:10 |
| pwnguin | heh | 00:10 |
| pwnguin | actually i'd rather have bash | 00:10 |
| jaem | pwnguin, agreed | 00:10 |
| pwnguin | and autocomplete ;) | 00:10 |
| ifreq | please tell me, is there cisco 3000 vpn client for maemo5? | 00:10 |
| pupnik | ctrl-i autocompletes here | 00:10 |
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| pupnik | ifreq: you got an open-source one to port to maemo5? | 00:11 |
| VDVsx | pupnik, a simple GUI app with commands would be useful for some people | 00:11 |
| jaem | mihu, sorry - I forgot my N900 is plugged into the server in the other room - I can't check for you right now | 00:11 |
| pwnguin | tab autocompletes but bash autocompletion has a powerful context engine | 00:11 |
| evo | andre__: email sent, thanks in advance! | 00:11 |
| pupnik | oh yeah, when did that get added. One year bash started knowing what file types my applications played. | 00:11 |
| ifreq | pupnik: well afaik vpnc would do ok., but its not on repos | 00:11 |
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| pwnguin | pupnik: bash autocomplete's been around for ages | 00:12 |
| mihu | jaem: Ok. Will try to find it out or ask later again. | 00:12 |
| jaem | pupnik, it's all scripts, I believe, and where some of them come from depends on your distro | 00:12 |
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| RST38h | A'ok. Page buttons now work | 00:12 |
| jaem | mihu, actually, heck - I can go unplug it ow | 00:12 |
| jaem | give me a moment | 00:12 |
| woglinde | ifreq package it | 00:12 |
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| pwnguin | debian / ubuntu just enabled them by default some time ago | 00:12 |
| wazd | Patent wars at last | 00:12 |
| jaem | hi wazd | 00:12 |
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| woglinde | ifreq just take the debian package and run it on sdk for building | 00:13 |
| pwnguin | pupnik: its' better than that, you can autocomplete options too, like apt-get in<tab> to get install | 00:13 |
| pupnik | http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~massar/vpnc/vpnc-0.5.3.tar.gz ifreq that it? i dont see a list ofdependencies on the hp | 00:13 |
| ifreq | aha ok, wonder why no one hasnt do it then allrdy | 00:13 |
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| wazd | jaem: heya | 00:13 |
| woglinde | ifreq nobody needed | 00:13 |
| woglinde | wpa2 solved a lot of thinks | 00:13 |
| woglinde | things | 00:13 |
| ifreq | thats strange , gotta check it out then | 00:13 |
| RST38h | To ALL: Could someone remind me what loops I have to jump through to make Maemo5 drop coredumps? | 00:13 |
| jaem | wazd, do you still have link to that "TI-84+ Hello Kitty Edition" skin you made as a joke ;) | 00:14 |
| jaem | I wanted to show it to someone | 00:14 |
| mgedmin | hey, was the garage downtime announced somewhere/ | 00:14 |
| pwnguin | RST38h: /etc/limits.conf? | 00:14 |
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| woglinde | mgedmin nope | 00:14 |
| RST38h | hmmm...lemme try | 00:14 |
| wazd | jaem: yeah | 00:14 |
| woglinde | mgedmin thats why the nokia people arent around here | 00:14 |
| mgedmin | RST38h, in older maemos it was mkdir /media/mmc2/core-dumps/ | 00:14 |
| woglinde | because they try to fix it I guess | 00:14 |
| mgedmin | did somebody lob a tactical nuke on their data center? | 00:14 |
| jaem | mgedmin, pfft, get a real data center | 00:15 |
| jaem | bunker! | 00:15 |
| mgedmin | hahahahahahahaha | 00:15 |
| mgedmin | ~ $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern | 00:15 |
| fnordianslip | VDVsx: i tried giving a path like --mandir=/dev/null to configure in the rules file, but dpkg doesn't like that, so wondered if there was an easier way than patching the makefile | 00:15 |
| mgedmin | on a n900 | 00:15 |
| jaem | mgedmin, actually, my uni has a bunker underneath it :P | 00:15 |
| mgedmin | prints "/what/me/worry" | 00:15 |
| mgedmin | RST38h, I'd try echo core |sudo tee /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern; ulimit -c unlimited; run-app-that-crashes | 00:16 |
| mgedmin | or go search in a wiki or something | 00:16 |
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| mgedmin | maybe echo -n core, actually | 00:16 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: I have that dir | 00:16 |
| wazd | jaem: http://i059.radikal.ru/0912/02/5f4baa8fbaf5.jpg | 00:17 |
| jaem | wazd, -grin- thanks | 00:17 |
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| jaem | wazd, I presume I can just swap that out somewhere in /usr/share ? | 00:17 |
| wazd | jaem: ask RST38h :D | 00:17 |
| red | pupnik: how do i run the server so that the cmd window gets hidden on launch? | 00:17 |
| wazd | jaem: I'm not sure that Ti-84 is released though | 00:18 |
| andre__ | wazd, must...! have...! | 00:18 |
| ifreq | mgedmin: ah must be blind. there seems to be vpnc vpnc-gui on dev | 00:18 |
| jaem | wazd, right, I was forgetting that it wouldn't be that easy | 00:18 |
| jaem | heh | 00:18 |
| ifreq | gotta check how good they work | 00:18 |
| jaem | I don't have an 84+ ROM, so no go there | 00:18 |
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| konttori | http://matin.maapallo.org/site.pl/selain/?c=smbc&i=868 | 00:18 |
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| * mgedmin is wondering why ifreq is telling him that | 00:18 | |
| wazd | jaem: yeah. that's why it's not implemented yet :) | 00:19 |
| ifreq | mgedmin: me2 :) ment to woglinde | 00:19 |
| jaem | oh, it's not even implemented | 00:19 |
| mgedmin | ah, you typed an upside-down w! | 00:19 |
| jaem | ah... I thought it was just disabled unless you had your own | 00:19 |
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| * RST38h checks | 00:20 | |
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| jaem | so... I was writing a C++ exam yesterday, on 4.5hrs of sleep, and I went to write an uppercase const, and for a moment got confused about the lack of a CAPSLock key on my pen :S | 00:20 |
| jaem | sigh | 00:21 |
| Dr_Cain | X) | 00:21 |
| Klowner | bahahah | 00:21 |
| Dr_Cain | coding on paper is horrible | 00:21 |
| Klowner | nobody uses a capslock! | 00:21 |
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| Dr_Cain | especially when you want to insert stuff between lines | 00:21 |
| pupnik | red: not sure - that sounds like a windows thing. | 00:21 |
| jaem | Dr_Cain, yes, but have you tried ASM on paper, and then hand-assembling from a reference book, and typing it into a dev board on a hex keypad? | 00:21 |
| jaem | now *that's* painful | 00:21 |
| jaem | my prof kept telling us he'd get the computers up and running, but somehow it never happend | 00:22 |
| * pupnik remembers hours of wire-wrap | 00:22 | |
| jaem | in his defense, that wasn't really his job, but stilll... painful | 00:22 |
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| Dr_Cain | :D | 00:22 |
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| Dr_Cain | now, how to get strace on there | 00:23 |
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| pupnik | Dr_Cain: i used to code on paper in junior high school. Didn't have my own computer, so i had to do my thinking beforehand :) | 00:23 |
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| pupnik | you know, kids stuff... gotos. | 00:23 |
| RST38h | Ahhahahahaha | 00:23 |
| Dr_Cain | you get a slap on the wrist is you use gotos today :D | 00:23 |
| pupnik | but great practice | 00:23 |
| RST38h | FBReader uses...eeek....STL | 00:23 |
| Dr_Cain | :O | 00:23 |
| RST38h | fail. | 00:24 |
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| pupnik | yeah, i found out who wrote the BASIC on our commodore pets in school | 00:24 |
| pupnik | ... Bill | 00:24 |
| jaem | pupnik, real programmers use COME FROM | 00:24 |
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| Dr_Cain | X) | 00:24 |
| pupnik | i seem to recall jz and jnz still being used | 00:24 |
| mgedmin | STL is kinda nice | 00:24 |
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| mgedmin | as much as it's possible for C++ to be nice | 00:24 |
| mgedmin | you have to admire the people who designed and implemented it | 00:24 |
| jaem | mgedmin, meh... C++ isn't pretty, but with something like Qt, it's decent | 00:25 |
| mgedmin | kinda like building a bridge out of toothpicks | 00:25 |
| jaem | in its class, it's my favorite | 00:25 |
| Dr_Cain | it's nice, but the error messages you can get.. whoa | 00:25 |
| mgedmin | the error messages can get truncated after the first 1024 characters | 00:25 |
| jaem | I was somewhat confused though, when a friend told me that he didn't like C++, but did like C... and Java | 00:25 |
| jaem | lol | 00:25 |
| mgedmin | that kind gave me the first indication all's not well with C++ | 00:25 |
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| mgedmin | used to be my favouritest language once | 00:25 |
| pwnguin | Klowner: looks like amazon carries invisibleshield products. but not for n900 =( | 00:26 |
| mgedmin | read lots of books, knew most of the gotchas | 00:26 |
| RST38h | STL is a nest of fail | 00:26 |
| mgedmin | which was the second indication: you have to know all the gotchas, or a land mine will make your code explode | 00:26 |
| inz | I started "real programming" with C++, but when I learned the beauty of C, I went there | 00:26 |
| inz | And rarely look back | 00:27 |
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| * mgedmin went the other direction: to Python | 00:27 | |
| Klowner | pwnguin: ya, you can get em from zagg.com though.. full body ones are $25 though :/ | 00:27 |
| * woglinde makes all | 00:27 | |
| pupnik | inz: can you find words that describe why? | 00:27 |
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| woglinde | even java on n900 | 00:27 |
| pwnguin | Klowner: amazon discounts them, and free shipping | 00:27 |
| mgedmin | hm, do we need #maemo-languages? | 00:27 |
| inz | pupnik, my nick is shortened version of inzane. 'nuff said. | 00:28 |
| jaem | inz, I prefer you don't mean "literal" beauty? Neither C or C++ are terribly pretty languages | 00:28 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: There is a way to use C++ without knowing the gotchas | 00:28 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: You simply have to ignore the hairy stuff | 00:28 |
| woglinde | beer now | 00:28 |
| inz | jaem, ...the eye of the beholder... ;) | 00:28 |
| mgedmin | anybody uses screen on n900? | 00:28 |
| woglinde | than back trying to convert gl app to gles | 00:29 |
| jaem | mgedmin, on-device, no. via ssh, all the time | 00:29 |
| pupnik | mgedmin: i run my screen session on the pc | 00:29 |
| inz | pupnik, with C I know what I'm doing. I guess I'm too stupid for "more advanced" languages | 00:29 |
| mgedmin | the "via ssh" is a bit unclear: you can ssh from the device, or to the device | 00:29 |
| Klowner | mgedmin: return-key issues? | 00:29 |
| jaem | mgedmin, sorry, ssh'ing to a screen session on a remote server | 00:29 |
| mgedmin | nah, wanted to share my fix for the "Cannot make directory '/var/run/screen': Permission denied" issue aka bug 5730 | 00:30 |
| pwnguin | mgedmin: its you europeans. it irssi+screen works for me :P | 00:30 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5730 screen should mkdir /var/run/screen on startup | 00:30 |
| pupnik | inz: that is *exactly* how i felt in 1990 when everyone started going off on C++ vs ObjC | 00:30 |
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| pupnik | or 1991 or smth | 00:30 |
| pupnik | turns out different models are suited to different tasks. | 00:31 |
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| woglinde | pupnik hm oh I always tough objc was later | 00:32 |
| woglinde | args thought | 00:32 |
| RST38h | fuck, I hate STL | 00:32 |
| jaem | hmm... Facebook popped up a message on login telling me they've added more privacy "features"... why does this make me suspect they've made it worse... :S | 00:33 |
| * RST38h looks up the name of the guy who invented STL and makes a special plea to the Tentacled One | 00:33 | |
| VDVsx | RST38h, the c++ template lib ? | 00:33 |
| RST38h | yea | 00:33 |
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| mgedmin | I once read an interview with the guy who invented STL | 00:34 |
| mgedmin | he's a genius | 00:34 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: In FBReader, some super-templated vector destructor is being called, it somehow calls dialogbuilder destructor, which calls an extra free() which crashes | 00:34 |
| mgedmin | sadly, only a genius can use it | 00:34 |
| woglinde | hm | 00:34 |
| woglinde | http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Introduction_to_OpenGL_ES | 00:34 |
| woglinde | its s60 but who cares | 00:34 |
| RST38h | Alexander Stepanov | 00:34 |
| evo | jaem: they did, double check everything ... now they force everyone to share something (ie. profile pic, friends list etc.) with everyone | 00:34 |
| * RST38h asks the Tentacled One to feast on Alexander Stepanov slowly and painfully | 00:35 | |
| jaem | evo, gah... maybe I'll finally kill the account then... as much as they allow | 00:35 |
| mgedmin | RST38h, some implicit compiler-defined copy constructor that shares the pointer inadvertently? | 00:35 |
| jaem | I only keep it for the odd event invite and such | 00:35 |
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| RST38h | To slowly drain him of the remainders of his sanity, converting him into a seventh day adventist or some other equally dull and pointless mania | 00:36 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, can people just use the standard stuff, why use such stuff :P | 00:36 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: I have no idea. | 00:36 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: All I see is that the code almost entirely consists of < and > characters | 00:36 |
| pupnik | In 1988, NeXT licensed Objective-C from StepSton | 00:36 |
| pupnik | e | 00:36 |
| red | pupnik: mm.. cannot access the mediaserver outside of the server pc | 00:36 |
| woglinde | rst wasnt it develop under sgi? | 00:36 |
| red | just says unable to connect, even tried with no firewall up | 00:36 |
| RST38h | woglinde: one of implementations was | 00:37 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: It is psychology | 00:37 |
| red | any suggestions | 00:37 |
| mece | TO my astonishment it turns out the N900 can record clear sound at a rock concert :D | 00:37 |
| pupnik | red - try on local net first. that is only usecase i tried | 00:37 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: People tend to stick to an idea like "This framework will help us write a better code" | 00:37 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, ohhh, C is so scary :P | 00:37 |
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| woglinde | mece you violate dmca | 00:37 |
| woglinde | prepare for punishment | 00:37 |
| * VDVsx actually thinks that C is the boogieman itself :P | 00:38 | |
| mece | woglinde, que? | 00:38 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: And they do not fucking let the idea go, even after it becomes painfully obvious that they spend 75% of time solving the problems caused by the use of that framework | 00:38 |
| red | pupnik: actually i could connect with my netbook | 00:38 |
| red | but not with N900 | 00:38 |
| red | just tested | 00:38 |
| jaem | woglinde, encrypt the audio from the concert speaker! | 00:38 |
| red | ill reboot phone and retry | 00:38 |
| jaem | make people wear special, proprietary, $600 headphones to listen | 00:39 |
| jaem | that'll teach 'em ;) | 00:39 |
| jaem | heh | 00:39 |
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| ext3mount | anyone know how to mount an ext3 on n810? | 00:39 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Seen that many times, with C++ overloaded <</>>, then with templates, STL, Java, XML, etc etc | 00:39 |
| woglinde | ext3mount you put ext3 on sd-card? | 00:39 |
| ext3mount | woglinde: yes | 00:39 |
| woglinde | prepare for failure within 6 months | 00:40 |
| pupnik | red are you using knots2 client on n900 or the webbrowser? | 00:40 |
| ext3mount | woglinde: ok, that doesn't stop the problem of getting ext3 mounted | 00:40 |
| jaem | ext3mount, woglinde has a point, but if you really want to know... | 00:40 |
| jaem | you need to load the modules manually | 00:40 |
| ext3mount | jaem: nooooo, thats what i thought | 00:40 |
| ext3mount | can i put easydebian on a fat16 or fat32? | 00:40 |
| jaem | ext3mount, you could probably put them in modprobe.conf, or whatever Maemo uses | 00:41 |
| red | pupnik: webbrowser | 00:41 |
| jaem | ext3mount, yes, the image is only 1.5GB | 00:41 |
| woglinde | ext3mount use ext3 | 00:41 |
| woglinde | args ext2 | 00:41 |
| red | thought its via that since i didnt see a client in the programs list | 00:41 |
| woglinde | I meant | 00:41 |
| ext3mount | jaem: i need the image to be 3 gb, not 1.5 or 1.2 gb, ext2 failed to make the file larger than 2 GB | 00:41 |
| jaem | ext3mount, hrm... ext2 can be used for larger images | 00:42 |
| jaem | were you building your own image, then? | 00:42 |
| ext3mount | jaem: no, dumping the *root.tar.gz file from qole onto the image after mounting | 00:42 |
| jaem | ext3mount, hmm... odd | 00:42 |
| jaem | and you just made the image the usual way? dd + mkfs ? | 00:42 |
| ext3mount | jaem: yep | 00:43 |
| ext3mount | jaem: but ext2 wouldn't allow an image larger than 2 GB | 00:43 |
| jaem | odd... | 00:43 |
| jaem | unless I'm crazy | 00:43 |
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| ext3mount | jaem: thats what i thought | 00:43 |
| jaem | ext3mount, that I'm crazy? jerk :P | 00:43 |
| jaem | hey, has anyone seen qole around? | 00:44 |
| ext3mount | lol | 00:44 |
| ext3mount | i meant the odd part | 00:44 |
| ifreq | can someone recommend a good disk space widget? | 00:44 |
| jaem | ifreq, wrap some python around df? :P | 00:44 |
| jaem | other than that, no | 00:44 |
| ifreq | heh | 00:44 |
| jaem | ifreq, homediskfree (or whatever it was called) might be portable | 00:45 |
| ifreq | allrighty | 00:45 |
| ifreq | just got work vpnc (cisco3000) working <3 gotta love this | 00:45 |
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| woglinde | ifreq cool | 00:45 |
| ext3mount | jaem: i wonder why qmount doesn't support ext3? | 00:47 |
| jaem | ext3mount, never used it | 00:47 |
| jaem | does normal mount not work? | 00:47 |
| ext3mount | jaem: nope | 00:48 |
| ext3mount | jaem: not with ext3 | 00:48 |
| jaem | ext3mount, why not? | 00:48 |
| jaem | I've done it | 00:48 |
| ext3mount | jaem: i guess the ext3 was removed from maemo on n810 | 00:48 |
| jaem | ext3mount, no, it's there | 00:48 |
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| jaem | but as I said, you have to load the modules | 00:48 |
| jaem | use insmod | 00:48 |
| jaem | you'll need mbcache, jbd (in some order), and then ext3 | 00:49 |
| ext3mount | jaem: what are the commands in terminal to load the modules? | 00:49 |
| jaem | um | 00:49 |
| jaem | one sec | 00:49 |
| * jaem pulls out his N810 | 00:49 | |
| ext3mount | ok, thanx | 00:49 |
| ext3mount | can i get them to start on startup too, that would be a plus | 00:50 |
| jaem | ext3mount, insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/mbcache.ko | 00:50 |
| jaem | and repeat for jbd.ko and ext3.ko, in the same directory | 00:51 |
| jaem | you'll need root | 00:51 |
| jaem | and as for startup, probably, but I'm not sure how Diablo does that | 00:51 |
| jaem | ask around | 00:51 |
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| jaem | maybe modprobe | 00:51 |
| jaem | .conf | 00:51 |
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| ext3mount | jaem: im getting errors on the first | 00:51 |
| ext3mount | jaem: a file exists error | 00:52 |
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| jaem | ext3mount, okay, just continue with the rest | 00:52 |
| jaem | ...I think | 00:52 |
| jaem | haven't done it in a while | 00:52 |
| ext3mount | yeah, on all of them, a cannot insert because file exists error | 00:52 |
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| jaem | huh... sounds like they're already there, then | 00:52 |
| jaem | try mount -t ext3 -o loop /path/to/image /path/to/mountpoint | 00:53 |
| ext3mount | i tried rebooting and it still didn't detect the ext3 | 00:53 |
| ext3mount | let me try that, one sec | 00:53 |
| jaem | you need to manually specify the fstype | 00:53 |
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| ext3mount | jaem: i have to re-write the .img file, right now its just a flat ext3 partition | 00:54 |
| ext3mount | i can do that command without the -o loop | 00:54 |
| RST38h | Ehehehe | 00:54 |
| RST38h | STL vector adds one item but deletes two | 00:54 |
| RST38h | deleting the same item twice | 00:54 |
| jaem | ext3mount, as someone said, though, ext3 really isn't good for flash | 00:55 |
| ext3mount | jaem: i did a mkdir /media/mmc3 (my test) and used gparted to format to ext3 then a mount -t ext3 /dev/mmcblk1 /media/mmc3 yields mount failed | 00:55 |
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| jaem | at least stick the image on your external card - the internal one is not something that is worth the expense to replace | 00:55 |
| jaem | I checked with tech support, and they said it's just the guts of a card soldered to the board, or some such | 00:56 |
| ext3mount | jaem: is it safe to put the image on a fat16 or fat32? | 00:56 |
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| jaem | I was quite impressed, both that they were willing to answer a "I know this will void my warranty, but..." question, and also that they had someone available who knew the hardware at that level | 00:57 |
| jaem | yay Nokia | 00:57 |
| jaem | ext3mount, safe, yes. FAT32 has a low max filesize, though (2GB?) | 00:57 |
| jaem | why not ext2, though? | 00:57 |
| ext3mount | jaem: quick question...the /dev/mmcblk1 is the right device in that command? | 00:57 |
| ext3mount | jaem: ext2 won't allow files sizes larger than 2GB for the image | 00:57 |
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| Vulcanis_ | it should | 00:57 |
| guerby | hi, is it possible to turn the N900 3G connection into a wifi access point? | 00:58 |
| Vulcanis_ | s/should/did, I'm pretty sure/ | 00:58 |
| infobot | Vulcanis_ meant: it did, I'm pretty sure | 00:58 |
| jaem | ext3mount, okay, so why don't you format your external card into FAT32 and EXT2, and use a native partition? | 00:58 |
| flux | jaem, I think you want to avoid running e2fsck as much as you can on a battery-powered device.. | 00:58 |
| mgedmin | guerby, barely, check my emails on that topic on the list | 00:58 |
| jaem | guerby, should be, but not in the GUI | 00:58 |
| flux | thus, use ext3 | 00:58 |
| javispedro | the entire set of gcc support libraries seem like magic. why would g++ invoked as a linker link to libgcc_s when gcc does not? | 00:58 |
| mgedmin | that was with a prerelease firmware, mind: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/internet_connection_sharing/ | 00:58 |
| go1dfish | would it be possible to partition the sd into two sides | 00:58 |
| jaem | flux, well, yeah, but it's not that hard - I've done worse on my N810, and still used it for the rest of the day without issue | 00:58 |
| ext3mount | flux: we are trying to get ext3 working, i have the *.ko files where they should be, but the mount isn't working | 00:59 |
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| flux | I suppose n900 always shuts down cleanly, though. even when its battery runs out? | 00:59 |
| go1dfish | a fat32 side for USB stick booting ubuntu, and file usage under windows | 00:59 |
| go1dfish | and a separate partition for a debian chroot | 00:59 |
| ext3mount | flux: i did a mkdir /media/mmc3 (my test) and used gparted to format to ext3 then a mount -t ext3 /dev/mmcblk1 /media/mmc3 yields mount failed | 00:59 |
| flux | ext3mount, did dmesg list some errors? | 00:59 |
| go1dfish | i.e. if I partition the sd card, will a pc still boot from the device in mass storage mode | 00:59 |
| mgedmin | augh, garage is down, cannot check out https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mobilehotspot | 01:00 |
| ext3mount | flux: not that i can see, but i think the error is the /dev/mmcblk1 part | 01:00 |
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| javispedro | ah, it's actually documented. sorry. | 01:00 |
| go1dfish | mgedmin: is that what it sounds like, i.e. wifi sharing from 3g/edge? | 01:01 |
| mgedmin | ext3mount, what, mounting the whole device, not a single partition? | 01:01 |
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| ext3mount | part | 01:01 |
| go1dfish | been looking for something like that, also has anyone managed to make the n900 function as a bluetooth dun client ( i.e. sharing the connection *from* another device) | 01:01 |
| mgedmin | go1dfish, only in the sense that a bicycle is the same as a train | 01:01 |
| mgedmin | yes, I could browse the web on my laptop using my n900s 3g connection, without a cable between the lappy and the n900 | 01:02 |
| flux | ext3mount, indeed, mmcblk1 is the whoe device, while mmcblk1p1 would be a partition of it.. | 01:02 |
| mgedmin | it was pretty painful (socks5 proxy, swap hell bug 5712) | 01:02 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5712 N900 goes into swap hell with frozen UI, despite free RAM | 01:02 |
| ext3mount | ok, let me try that | 01:02 |
| Mousey | what? mmcblk? not usb based eh | 01:02 |
| go1dfish | ah, so it's not a full ip routing | 01:02 |
| richard42 | flux, clever | 01:02 |
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| go1dfish | has anyone explored trying to get iptables running? | 01:02 |
| flux | ext3mount, what did you format ext3 anyway? | 01:03 |
| RST38h | Oh my god... | 01:03 |
| RST38h | They are combining Boost with STL | 01:03 |
| *** gnuton is now known as GNUton-BNC | 01:03 | |
| mgedmin | go1dfish, I did | 01:03 |
| ext3mount | flux: the image for easydebian would not exceed 2 gb when i had the freespace (using dd) | 01:03 |
| mgedmin | no iptables.ko on pre-production firmware | 01:03 |
| mgedmin | and no kernel sources, so I couldn't build a working version | 01:03 |
| mgedmin | RST38h, Boost was built on top of STL! | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | in the same spirit | 01:04 |
| go1dfish | your still pon pre-pro firmware? | 01:04 |
| RST38h | SOmebody, please, kill them all =( | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | yeah ... | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | too much effort to backup/reflash/restore | 01:04 |
| flux | ext3mount, well, in theory you could workaround that issue with raid0.. | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | planning to do that over this weekend | 01:04 |
| flux | actually not raid0, but concatenation raid | 01:04 |
| go1dfish | if it makes you feel any better, I dont think iptables.ko is present on production either | 01:04 |
| flux | ext3mount, or maybe dmsetup, I think it does that too | 01:04 |
| ext3mount | yeah, neither /dev/mmcblk1p0 or /dev/mmcblk1p1 is working | 01:04 |
| guerby | mgedmin, you mean the topic "internet connection sharing" back in october? | 01:04 |
| ext3mount | dmsetup is installed | 01:05 |
| go1dfish | oh wait... | 01:05 |
| go1dfish | there is an ip_tables.ko | 01:05 |
| go1dfish | and an iptable_filter.ko | 01:05 |
| mgedmin | guerby, yes; I pasted the link here a few seconds later | 01:05 |
| go1dfish | interesting | 01:05 |
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| mgedmin | correction: wasn't iptables.ko, was something else... | 01:05 |
| flux | ext3mount, I don't know how to do it, though, but I do believe it's possible :). so you'd have multiple files, possibly loopback-mount each of those, and compose a linearly combined block device out of those | 01:06 |
| mgedmin | iptable_nat.ko | 01:06 |
| ali1234 | go1dfish: yes i have | 01:06 |
| RST38h | Oh, it is even worse | 01:06 |
| ext3mount | flux: well, i may just go back to the 2 GB image of easydebian | 01:06 |
| ext3mount | flux: until qole has time to review | 01:06 |
| go1dfish | ali1234: any difficulties, I successfully inserted ip_tables.ko | 01:06 |
| go1dfish | no userspace utils seem present though | 01:06 |
| flux | ext3mount, btw, another alternative would be to put different directories of the easydebian image into different images | 01:07 |
| ali1234 | indeed | 01:07 |
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| flux | but it'd be more complicated to manage | 01:07 |
| ali1234 | i tried to compile the missing modules using the kernel source, but i couldn't get it to generate the right symbol versioning | 01:07 |
| flux | whichever solution is chosen, it'd need to be implemented in easydebian, while your ext3-solution would Just Work(TM) | 01:07 |
| ali1234 | i didn't try very hard though | 01:07 |
| ext3mount | im out all, have to go, thanks for the ideas | 01:07 |
| richard42 | Hi, is there a way I can test maemo on my pc? Is there a virtualbox image or something like that? | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | ali1234, production firmware? | 01:07 |
| ali1234 | yes | 01:07 |
| flux | /proc/filesystems says n900 supports ext3, so I think it _should_ work | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | maemo 5.1 sdk? | 01:07 |
| ali1234 | but possibly not the right kernel package or something, i didn't apt-get update | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | or 5.0? | 01:07 |
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| go1dfish | ali1234: I wonder if the userspace from the chroot will work | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | no idea :/ | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | probably 5.0 | 01:08 |
| derf | RST38h: You knew it was going to happen. | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | the right kernel was only released maybe one day ago | 01:08 |
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| guerby | mgedmin, thx! | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | to the SDK | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | ok then that would be why | 01:08 |
| flux | /dev/mmcblk0p2 is /home and it's already ext3, so it must work | 01:08 |
| *** cbrake is now known as cbrake_away | 01:08 | |
| RST38h | derf: Right now, I just want to kill every single "C++ hacker" I can get my hands on | 01:08 |
| woglinde | RST38h *g* | 01:08 |
| derf | RST38h: Let me know when you want to get started. | 01:08 |
| derf | I'm here to help. | 01:08 |
| flux | actually I might also consider switching the p1 partition to ext3, I'd only use it as mass storage memory with a linux pc anyway.. | 01:08 |
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| * VDVsx codes in C++ sometimes, but is a nice guy, please spare him :P | 01:09 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Todays crazy moment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1scwq7DhfI | 01:10 |
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| richard42 | speedevil, funny | 01:11 |
| VDVsx | ahah | 01:12 |
| go1dfish | haven't tried extensively yet but it looks like the userspace utils in a chroot will interact with iptables | 01:12 |
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| fnordianslip | anyone wanna try out my deb for conky while i wait for garage to come back up? no widget or desktop conky yet, just a seperate app window | 01:15 |
| jaem | fnordianslip, for Maemo 5? Sure, why not :) | 01:16 |
| ali1234 | go1dfish: they definitely will cos it's just a kernel interface | 01:16 |
| fnordianslip | jaem: hang on while i upload it somewhere | 01:16 |
| dnaumov | I wonder if you could theoretically reflash a N900 with a completely different setup than what it comes from, say, NetBSD | 01:17 |
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| jaem | dnaumov, theoretically, sure... although it may not be practically possible in some cases | 01:18 |
| jaem | and it would be a lot of work | 01:18 |
| jaem | look up the Mer project | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a way to get the n900 x server accepting external connections for x windows? | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | so I can run stuff on it | 01:18 |
| jaem | non-Linux probably is not practical, since some of the Linux kernel modules are proprietary, and obviously won't work with BSD | 01:19 |
| jaem | SpeedEvil, can you clarify? | 01:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | jaem: so I can run xeyes, or whatever, hosted on my laptop - with the window displaying on the n900 - sorry - not being very clear tonight. | 01:19 |
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| jaem | oh | 01:20 |
| jaem | ssh -X, possibly? | 01:20 |
| go1dfish | ali1234: cool, im gonna go ahead and set up firestarter in my chroot and go from there, where would I go to get the newly released kernel sources? | 01:20 |
| jaem | if you want to initiate it from the laptop, I'm not sure, but that's the usual way to do it | 01:20 |
| fnordianslip | jaem: http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/conky_1.6.1-0maemo5-0.1_armel.deb | 01:20 |
| go1dfish | SpeedEvil: yes, ssh -X will do x11 forwarding over x | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | jaem: hmm, thanks | 01:20 |
| jaem | if you wanted to be fancy, you could write an app to do something somewhat like MS Sideshow, but that's probably overkill | 01:20 |
| go1dfish | SpeedEvil: I've run firefox, etc... off my desktop that way | 01:21 |
| jaem | SpeedEvil, once you use the -X switch (capital X), you can just run X apps in the shell, and they will automatically be remoted | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | jaem: yes - I've never actually yused ssh forwardin gbefore - X that is. | 01:21 |
| jaem | be aware, though, that Maemo's WM will mangle plenty of them, and the odd app won't be happy being remoted | 01:21 |
| go1dfish | it will only really work well over a fastish connection though, VNC would be better solution for slower connections, but wont do one app at a time | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 01:21 |
| jaem | but it generally works | 01:21 |
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| ifreq | can someone be so bored and do xsnow before xmas comes | 01:21 |
| ifreq | =) pretty pls | 01:22 |
| jaem | go1dfish, I'd like a working NX client, as that's what my desktop and my friend's server have installed | 01:22 |
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| go1dfish | I've still never really messed with NX | 01:22 |
| go1dfish | heard good things about it though | 01:22 |
| jaem | and RDP for my uni's terminal server, so I can do my homework without needing to buy Windows apps :P | 01:22 |
| dnaumov | jaem: afaik, the openbsd people got the zaurus port to run pretty well, but I would guess if n900 relies on proprietary non-open kernel modules for supporting things like umts/gsm you wouldnt get very far with having phone functions of N900 working in a BSD :) | 01:22 |
| fnordianslip | jaem: you will need to copy /opt/maemo/usr/share/doc/conky/examples/conky.conf to /etc/conky/conky.conf and run it as "conky -d" from xterm, or put the conf file elsewhere and call "conky -c path/conky.conf -d" | 01:22 |
| * mgedmin needs a better hostname for his n900 than 'mg-n900' | 01:22 | |
| * go1dfish has been meaning to try out openbsd on his C3100 for a while | 01:23 | |
| dnaumov | btw, I am hearing someone already has quake3 running on his/her N900? any screenshots around? | 01:23 |
| ifreq | youtube | 01:23 |
| go1dfish | dnaumov: yeah, openarena is in the repos to, I just installed it today | 01:23 |
| mgedmin | dnaumov, OpenArena is in extras (-devel, probably) | 01:23 |
| go1dfish | has anyone tried running android in a chroot on the n900 yet? | 01:24 |
| go1dfish | that was done on the zaurus's before the g1 was even out iirc | 01:24 |
| jaem | fnordianslip, I'll try it in a bit - I have to get some stuff ready to go out for the weekend | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ifreq: to do it 'right' as I understand it it would basically need to be a port to snow on controls, not just windows. | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | ifreq: as most windows are fullscreen | 01:25 |
| dnaumov | hm, openarena on n900 looks like vertex lighting and seems to run a fair bit slower than the q3 port for n95 | 01:25 |
| fnordianslip | jaem: out? at the weekend? why? :) np | 01:25 |
| jaem | fnordianslip, early Christmas | 01:25 |
| ifreq | SpeedEvil: okay, good point | 01:25 |
| jaem | long story :P | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | jaem: it should auto-set the display variable - when I ssh to laptop with -X from phone? As it's not | 01:26 |
| SpeedEvil | jaem: maybe I've ot the wrong ssh package setup. /me reads his laptop sshd.conf | 01:26 |
| go1dfish | some distros disable x11 forwarding by default in sshd.conf | 01:26 |
| go1dfish | dnaumov: someone on the maemo.org forum was saying that q3 on maemo ran faster than openarena as well | 01:27 |
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| jaem | SpeedEvil, yeah, you'll need to enable X11 Forwarding in the config | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | jaem: yeah - that's it iut was defaulted to no - though it wasn't explicitly set in sshd.conf | 01:28 |
| jaem | wow... FB is worse than I thought... and I knew they were bad when it came to privacy :S | 01:32 |
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| jaem | now they're just outright lying about the stuff they pull | 01:32 |
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| * jaem deletes^Wdeactivates his account | 01:32 | |
| SpeedEvil | Oh well - I was trying xlock -inroot -mode flame - but it's not working. | 01:32 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if the pictures can be transparent. | 01:32 | |
| SpeedEvil | xsnow - it does nothing! (by default at least without any hacking) | 01:34 |
| jaem | apparently if I deactivate my account, none of my friends will be able to keep in touch with me... OH NOEZ! | 01:34 |
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| jaem | it's not like we have phones... or e-mail/IM... or meatspace | 01:34 |
| Arkenoi | for russian users: http://arkanoid.livejournal.com/277655.html (comments welcome, will translate to english if someone is interested) | 01:34 |
| jaem | sigh | 01:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | hmm - 0 blocks free on / | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | But I just deinstalled... | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 01:39 |
| mikhas | remove apt cache | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | optified vs non optified | 01:39 |
| * jaem finds it a bit disturbing that the docs in this XML file have a "causes-havoc" element :S http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/librtcom-telepathy-glib/rtcom-telepathy-glib/Channel_Interface_Skype_GroupChat.xml | 01:39 | |
| SpeedEvil | argh | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | that may help | 01:39 |
| mikhas | it keeps all packages you installed via apt-get methinks | 01:40 |
| mikhas | that is, not via app manager | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | mik: I installed them all through app-manager | 01:40 |
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| mikhas | odd | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm - a fair amount not it seems - when python was being screwy | 01:41 |
| mikhas | well, if your apt cache is full, ... and you never installed via apt-get ... then that's worth a bug report imho | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | blow away /var/cache/apt/archives then? | 01:41 |
| mikhas | only the contents, yes | 01:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | there still seems to be something screwy with reboots gaining large amount of space | 01:42 |
| mikhas | ph | 01:43 |
| mikhas | oh* | 01:43 |
| mikhas | well, I had roughly ~70mb in apt cache | 01:43 |
| mikhas | which is of course pretty tough for / | 01:43 |
| VDVsx | SpeedEvil, true, already experienced that | 01:43 |
| SpeedEvil | I can't see anything significant holding open files | 01:44 |
| pupnik | my n900 has no /etc/apt/cache | 01:44 |
| pupnik | ech | 01:44 |
| arachnist | pupnik: /car/cache/apt | 01:44 |
| arachnist | /var | 01:44 |
| pupnik | i thought those got deleted | 01:44 |
| microlith | yay, it's here | 01:44 |
| mikhas | well, I was also surprised to find it | 01:45 |
| wazd | nini all | 01:45 |
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| pupnik | 20MB here. Maybe those were the packages i installed with apt-get and not application manager | 01:45 |
| mikhas | SpeedEvil says that this is not the case =/ | 01:45 |
| nomis | has anyone tried gmediaserver to make stuff available to the N900? | 01:46 |
| VDVsx | wazd, gnite | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | mikhas: I diddn't quite | 01:46 |
| mikhas | so, we should ask marius right? | 01:46 |
| mgedmin | you rang? | 01:46 |
| mikhas | oh ok | 01:46 |
| woglinde | haha lol | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | mikhas: all packages I saw in that dir were directly installed ones | 01:46 |
| woglinde | -> http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2009/12/09/n900-arrival/ | 01:46 |
| jaem | nomis, is that UPnP based? | 01:47 |
| mikhas | the other one, optify-marius | 01:47 |
| nomis | jaem: apparently. It just started working. Took a while for some reason. | 01:47 |
| jaem | nomis, huh... I've only tried with the N810, and a different app | 01:47 |
| mgedmin | ah ok | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | But. | 01:47 |
| jaem | it was just a UPnP daemon | 01:47 |
| jaem | cli | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Before reboot. 7594 blocks. | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | After reboot - 25000 | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Since the last reboot all packages have been installed only through package manager | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | how do I install a non-broken find on this thing? | 01:48 |
| nomis | jaem: do you recall what you used? | 01:48 |
| jaem | nomis, let me see | 01:48 |
| ifreq | SpeedEvil: logs? | 01:50 |
| lardman|home | is Garage still down? | 01:51 |
| lardman|home | for svn access? | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ifreq: ? | 01:51 |
| jaem | nomis, I think it was ushare | 01:51 |
| ifreq | nvm | 01:51 |
| jaem | it's available for Arch - not sure about other distros | 01:51 |
| nomis | jaem: mhm, seems its not available in debian. | 01:52 |
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| jaem | nomis, apparently it was originally based on GMediaServer anyway | 01:52 |
| jaem | I don't know if it's better, and that probably depends on your preferences | 01:53 |
| jaem | http://ushare.geexbox.org/#Download | 01:53 |
| nomis | mhm. Every time I try to watch a shared movie, the "phono player" interface starts. | 01:53 |
| jaem | what's that? | 01:53 |
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| nomis | jaem: the one with the big icon of a record player. Which is kind of bogus for a movie :) | 01:54 |
| jaem | ahaha | 01:54 |
| jaem | are you just browsing to the file on the share, then? | 01:54 |
| nomis | jaem: I am browsing from within the media player. | 01:54 |
| jaem | oh ,you mean it's trying to play it as an audio file? | 01:55 |
| jaem | or am I misunderstanding yuo | 01:55 |
| nomis | yeah, thats what I suspect. Not sure how the upnp protocol actually works there. | 01:55 |
| jaem | nomis, what type of video is it? | 01:55 |
| jaem | e.g. codec and such. I know that MPlayer will attempt to play the audio track even if it can't play the video, so maybe this player is doing something similar, by accident or design | 01:56 |
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| nomis | some random .wmv. | 01:56 |
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| jaem | okay - have to run. I'll be back in a while | 01:57 |
| jaem | hope you get it working | 01:57 |
| jaem | try a video with a simple/old codec, and see if that works | 01:57 |
| javispedro | does anyone know if there's a way I can send the same source package to multiple maemo-org autobuilders without using the web interface? | 01:58 |
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| Arkenoi | is it true that 10 years old "cubic" nokia chargers may be damaging for modern batteries? | 02:06 |
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| microlith | hmm | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: I doubt it. The batteries have internal protection typically, and if they do not, the phone does. | 02:09 |
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| microlith | is the N900's WPA PSK compatible with WPA2? | 02:09 |
| till- | isn't the charger logic built into the phone and not the charger? | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: Simply as you don't know what shit someones going to connect to it. | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 02:10 |
| mgedmin | microlith, yes | 02:10 |
| microlith | ok | 02:10 |
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| till- | i built a nokia charger for my bike, it just suplies 6v | 02:10 |
| mgedmin | javispedro, are autobuilders even up now? garage is down :( | 02:10 |
| lardman|home | hmm, forgot to give Qalculate! an icon | 02:10 |
| lardman|home | and also needs hildonised menus | 02:11 |
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| lardman|home | ah well | 02:11 |
| till- | and until now the batteries of both my n82 and my n800 are fine | 02:11 |
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| javispedro | mgedmin: ah, thanks for the warning. won't try to wast my time with uploading 30MiBish files | 02:11 |
| mikhas | Qalculate ... for a german this reminds me of Qual ... | 02:11 |
| till- | :) | 02:11 |
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| lardman|home | im Moment ist es warscheinlich so schwierig | 02:13 |
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| mgedmin | javispedro, I was asking, not warning -- maybe I could upload my package with scp or something, since the web page is down | 02:13 |
| lardman|home | quite crowded on the screen | 02:13 |
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| ifreq | till-: good idea thanks | 02:14 |
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| lardman|home | I always like gift myself | 02:14 |
| lardman|home | almost converse meaning in English/German | 02:14 |
| mikhas | no, same. | 02:14 |
| mikhas | most gifts are gift | 02:14 |
| mikhas | >=) | 02:14 |
| lardman|home | I hope not the one from my wife! ;) | 02:15 |
| lardman|home | but you never know! | 02:15 |
| mikhas | in the sense of having to use unwanted gifts | 02:15 |
| mikhas | but that's still a bit far-fetched, oh well | 02:15 |
| lardman|home | :) | 02:15 |
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| microlith | hmm, this thing does not like my access point | 02:17 |
| nomis | jaem: ushare works perfect. seems it was a gmediaserver problem. | 02:19 |
| jaem | nomis, \o/ | 02:19 |
| microlith | hmm | 02:21 |
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| microlith | ...reboot | 02:23 |
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| go1dfish | microlith: have you played with the wifi power saving options? | 02:28 |
| go1dfish | mine doesn't like certain AP's with power saving on | 02:28 |
| lardman|home | night all | 02:28 |
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| microlith | go1dfish: yeah looking at that | 02:28 |
| go1dfish | on the one I had issues with, it wasn't the transmit power that was an issue | 02:29 |
| go1dfish | it was the other power saving option | 02:29 |
| microlith | ohyea | 02:30 |
| microlith | it's much happier now | 02:30 |
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| microlith | time to go geek route and load vim | 02:31 |
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| Nicko | Does anyone know if there is a deborphan ported to Diablo? | 02:40 |
| woglinde | nicko dont believe it | 02:41 |
| woglinde | nicko whats your problem? | 02:41 |
| Nicko | looking for an easy way to clean out un-necessary packages | 02:42 |
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| woglinde | hm? | 02:43 |
| woglinde | how many packages you have installed? | 02:43 |
| Nicko | in addition to tmp emptying commands like apt-get clean/autoclean | 02:43 |
| Nicko | how many? prolly a lot :) | 02:44 |
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| ali1234 | Nicko: get root shell, use apt-get | 02:44 |
| woglinde | sudo gainroot | 02:45 |
| woglinde | dpkg -l | wc -l | 02:45 |
| woglinde | works as user too | 02:45 |
| mgedmin | also be sure not to remove any essential packages that would brick your device | 02:45 |
| ali1234 | deborphan sounds like apt-get autoremove to me | 02:45 |
| woglinde | mgedmin lol | 02:45 |
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| mgedmin | cruder | 02:45 |
| Nicko | is that equivalent to apt-get autoremove? | 02:45 |
| woglinde | mgedmin you cannt do it without | 02:45 |
| woglinde | typing | 02:45 |
| woglinde | I am really dump | 02:45 |
| ali1234 | Nicko: i dunno, i'm just going on the name of it | 02:46 |
| mgedmin | autoremove remembers which packages were explicitly installed, and which ones were pulled in automatically | 02:46 |
| mgedmin | deborphan tries to guess | 02:46 |
| mgedmin | which is why I called it 'cruder' | 02:46 |
| Nicko | so autoremove > deborphan ? | 02:46 |
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| mgedmin | for values of > | 02:49 |
| mgedmin | it's certainly a newer feature of apt's | 02:49 |
| mgedmin | and it can be useful in other ways | 02:49 |
| Nicko | '>' = safer to use | 02:49 |
| mgedmin | e.g. if you explicitly install libfoo-dev in order to build something, autoremove won't remove it | 02:50 |
| mgedmin | but deborphan will tell you that you've got libfoo-dev that no other package depends on | 02:50 |
| Nicko | i ran autoremove right now. quite a lot of libs and apps it wants to clean out | 02:50 |
| mgedmin | I wouldn't blindly remove every package deborphan lists | 02:50 |
| mgedmin | I would blindly apt-get autoremove | 02:50 |
| mgedmin | so, yes | 02:50 |
| ali1234 | i would blindly apt-get autoremove on ubuntu, but not maemo | 02:51 |
| mgedmin | well, not blindly, but unless it looks _very_ wrong, I'd assume it was safe | 02:51 |
| mgedmin | yeah, that | 02:51 |
| ali1234 | call me paranoid but i just don't trust those crazy non-free debs | 02:51 |
| Nicko | its funny though..autoremove wants to remove unrar | 02:51 |
| mgedmin | I know what's what on ubuntu; a lot of maemo pkgs are a bit mysterious | 02:51 |
| Nicko | last n00b question: is there a way for me to check what is using a certain lib? | 02:52 |
| mgedmin | apt-cache rdepends? | 02:54 |
| mgedmin | I don't really remember | 02:54 |
| microlith | good, mic isn't bugged | 02:54 |
| mgedmin | ooh, ought to check that | 02:54 |
| mgedmin | how do I check that? | 02:54 |
| odin_ | Nicko, "ldd /bin/program" also "cat /proc/<pid>/maps" of the running program | 02:54 |
| mgedmin | call skype voice test? | 02:54 |
| Nicko | thanks, no worries, i'll do some searching | 02:55 |
| Nicko | thanks | 02:55 |
| microlith | I just called my parents, works the same | 02:55 |
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| mgedmin | ah, can't call skype before I enter my account info | 02:57 |
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| mgedmin | gah, this data transfer thing is painful | 02:57 |
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| mgedmin | good thing they have two themes, or I couldn't tell my loaner N900 from my personal N900... | 02:59 |
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| mgedmin | time to sleep anyway | 03:00 |
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| microlith | hmm | 03:06 |
| microlith | is there a way to mass delete the entire contents of a folder? | 03:06 |
| arachnist | rm -rf | 03:06 |
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| microlith | I should be more clear | 03:06 |
| microlith | the e-mail client downloaded 250+ spam messages google shuffled off into a folder | 03:07 |
| microlith | is it possible to delete all of them? | 03:07 |
| microlith | at once, that is. | 03:07 |
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| Dantonic | hi, anyone use the maps app? are you able to enter number in the Find feature? | 03:09 |
| Dantonic | on the N900 that is | 03:09 |
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| asidjazz | lemme get this str8 | 03:32 |
| asidjazz | maemo is gtk+ w/ hildon in c++ or c? | 03:32 |
| asidjazz | ah yea c++ | 03:33 |
| asidjazz | when is the php-gtk support gonna occur :) | 03:36 |
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| w00t | asidjazz: whenever you, or someone else interested in it does it, I'd guess | 03:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | just a note of minor importance: N900 messes up DCF77 radio controlled clocks in a radius of up to 1m | 03:49 |
| asidjazz | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=423928#post423928 | 03:50 |
| asidjazz | ^- FYI | 03:50 |
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| siriusnova | is it just me or does the Flash on the N900 suck on everything except youtube? | 04:01 |
| siriusnova | its rediculously choppy on any other video site | 04:01 |
| siriusnova | like hulu | 04:01 |
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| pupnik | siriusnova: Flash sucks yes. | 04:03 |
| pupnik | that is not our fault, now is it | 04:03 |
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| go1dfish | sadly flash on the n900 is the best implementation of flash I've seen on linux sofar | 04:05 |
| go1dfish | not that that says much | 04:05 |
| go1dfish | hulu videos are nearly twice the res of your std youtube video, so not too surprising | 04:06 |
| go1dfish | that *might* become possible with flash10 with gpu video accel | 04:06 |
| asidjazz | are all maemo apps always going to be free? | 04:06 |
| asidjazz | gotta wait for the ovi store to com eout? | 04:06 |
| go1dfish | and of course if hulu (or rather their content providers) finds out that their site does become usable on the n900, they will take steps to prevent it | 04:07 |
| asidjazz | hulu is already done go1dfish | 04:07 |
| go1dfish | ? | 04:07 |
| asidjazz | comcast bought nbc | 04:07 |
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| asidjazz | 40 bil | 04:08 |
| asidjazz | think about that :) | 04:08 |
| asidjazz | whats comcasts' product? | 04:08 |
| go1dfish | have they shut it down yet? | 04:09 |
| asidjazz | no not yet the buy is still going through | 04:09 |
| ShadowJK | I'm beginning to suspect the calendar autostarts at midnight | 04:10 |
| Arkenoi | actually almost all online video players suck except youtube | 04:10 |
| Arkenoi | even youtube sucks after they introduced that stupid mouse-on pop-up thingies | 04:10 |
| Arkenoi | it worked much better on low performance machines before that | 04:11 |
| ShadowJK | some livestream things work on n900, some skins eat humongous amounts of ram and dont work | 04:11 |
| pupnik | ustream also too slow on my n900 | 04:12 |
| pupnik | and there's just no need for that | 04:13 |
| pupnik | man, i remember designing flash to run on p3s | 04:13 |
| siriusnova | also will nokia release ovi suite for the N900 | 04:14 |
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| siriusnova | any ideas? | 04:14 |
| pupnik | @500mhz, scrolling a 800x600 window at 5 fps. | 04:14 |
| pupnik | yes | 04:14 |
| go1dfish | flash is just a bloated pos | 04:14 |
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| pupnik | thing is, there are some cases where you have to use it, as a web dev | 04:15 |
| go1dfish | complain to the relevant sites to switch to/offer HTML5 | 04:15 |
| go1dfish | pupnik: yeah I know :( I work with a music label startup | 04:15 |
| go1dfish | use soundmanager2 for playback, at least that way the UI can still be all DOM/CSS | 04:16 |
| pupnik | hah. is there a music label anywhere that doesnt do a full-flash web presence? | 04:16 |
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| go1dfish | works quite well on the n900 btw :) though a bit slow, more due to a lack of js optimization than the flash applet | 04:16 |
| go1dfish | http://tunetrack.net/ | 04:16 |
| pupnik | well for streaming video i'd like something that is scalable and open | 04:16 |
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| pupnik | i.e. client can ignore some detail if it's not keeping up | 04:16 |
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| go1dfish | heh that wouldn't be necessary if we'd just drop the completely extraneous Flash VM for video playback, I've been through many machines that could handle fluid full screen video, and choke to death on moderate flash vids | 04:17 |
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| pupnik | right | 04:18 |
| pupnik | waitaminute | 04:19 |
| pupnik | goldfish, think browser could be hacked to detect a "normal" flv stream and play that with gstreamer/mplayer? | 04:19 |
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| pupnik | is it really decoding the flv in a vm? | 04:20 |
| pupnik | or just flash apps? | 04:20 |
| timperi | completely extraneous flash vm | 04:20 |
| pupnik | hmmmmm | 04:21 |
| go1dfish | pupnik: it might be possible | 04:23 |
| go1dfish | using the same method as the flv downloaders | 04:24 |
| go1dfish | I don't know for sure how flv encoding works in flash | 04:24 |
| go1dfish | but I can only imagine it happens in the VM with how slow it is | 04:24 |
| go1dfish | err decoding* | 04:25 |
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| pupnik | btw if your device slows down after loading up with files, tweaker the tracker config to taste | 04:27 |
| pupnik | i added a delay to scanning on boot, removed .documents from tree | 04:28 |
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| pupnik | lowered priority also. n900 is zippy again | 04:28 |
| ShadowJK | uh, lack of js optimization? doesn't the browser have tracemonkey.. | 04:30 |
| ShadowJK | go1dfish, decoding isn't in the vm, it'd not be anywhere near fast enough for sure | 04:31 |
| ShadowJK | The decoder in flash isn't that fast though... | 04:31 |
| ali1234 | decoder in actionscript? lol | 04:31 |
| ShadowJK | Plus it's doing alpha compositing on top of the video, which uses shitloads extra | 04:31 |
| ShadowJK | and i think it has to convert the video to RGB? that's extra 30% right there... | 04:31 |
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| ShadowJK | What I'm saying is, even if flash had a video decoder that was as fast as, say, ffmpeg or openmax, they still wouldn't come close to the performance of a dedicated player | 04:35 |
| * Arkenoi has c3/c4 rate with sip and xmpp on 26%/73% , is that normal or can be reduced? | 04:41 | |
| go1dfish | ShadowJK: I meant a lack of optimization in the js of my own site | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 04:42 |
| go1dfish | it is using tracemonkey? | 04:42 |
| go1dfish | I don't think microb is using tracemonkey yet | 04:43 |
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| go1dfish | but I did have a nokia rep say that the browser will be getting JIT compilation for JS soon, I assume he was referring to tracemonkey | 04:44 |
| ShadowJK | I thought it was | 04:44 |
| go1dfish | I could very well be wrong, I haven't looked that deep into it | 04:45 |
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| AakashPatel | This damn screen scratchs like a mofo easily | 04:47 |
| AakashPatel | I've had it for like 2 weeks and i already see a scratch | 04:47 |
| Proteous | stop carrying it in the same pocket as your keys | 04:49 |
| Vratha | mmmm, n900 | 04:49 |
| Vratha | what i want to know is why t-mobile thinks it's a good idea to route all my internet traffic through Kansas when i actually live in NY | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | has anybody checked N900 service manuals? Any Idea what's smallest entity to replace to get a new scratchfree display surface... and how much that will cost? | 04:50 |
| go1dfish | DocScrutinizer51: there is a disassembly video floating around | 04:51 |
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| go1dfish | the bezel/screen cover is removable | 04:51 |
| lcuk | n900 autopsy? | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | go1dfish: any pointer? | 04:51 |
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| go1dfish | http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-news/nokia-n900-disassembly/ | 04:51 |
| w00t | Vratha: i've gotten out of the habit of trying to question ISPs/etc | 04:51 |
| w00t | when I lived in australia, my ISP had a habit of sending my traffic via new zealand.. | 04:52 |
| * w00t never worked that one out | 04:52 | |
| Vratha | w00t: well, when it results in <= 1/3 the speed of AT&T, i care | 04:52 |
| w00t | (I was on dialup, so it really sucked) | 04:52 |
| Vratha | hehe | 04:52 |
| Vratha | luckily my land-based cable provider is awesome | 04:52 |
| w00t | ah, dialup, how I *don't* miss thee | 04:52 |
| Vratha | word on that | 04:52 |
| * w00t hugs ADSL2+ | 04:52 | |
| AakashPatel | Proteous: i dont | 04:53 |
| AakashPatel | i treat this thing like a baby | 04:53 |
| w00t | AakashPatel: you too? | 04:53 |
| w00t | I'm glad I'm not the only one that tries to bottle feed my phone | 04:53 |
| * w00t coos | 04:53 | |
| AakashPatel | Haha yeah | 04:53 |
| w00t | my case arrived today | 04:53 |
| AakashPatel | wait what | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | they have cases? | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | Where | 04:54 |
| go1dfish | im still using the same case as my treo650 | 04:54 |
| w00t | well | 04:54 |
| Vratha | i often throw mine at the wall | 04:54 |
| go1dfish | works quite well | 04:54 |
| Vratha | just to let it know who's boss around here | 04:54 |
| w00t | I bought *A* case for it, yes | 04:54 |
| w00t | and it fits ok | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | erm nvm | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | It already has a micro scratch | 04:54 |
| go1dfish | even the headphone port cutout in the bottom is in the right spot | 04:54 |
| w00t | though the plastic over the keyboard is a bit annoying | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | might as well not use protection | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ooooh sheiit what a scary tool | 04:54 |
| w00t | quote of the day award goes to AakashPatel | 04:54 |
| AakashPatel | Hah | 04:54 |
| Vratha | i wonder if strangers having sex use that excuse | 04:55 |
| Vratha | "well, my penis already has a scratch... what the hell... no protection!" | 04:55 |
| Vratha | 3 weeks later, they learn they have aids | 04:55 |
| Vratha | hiv at least | 04:55 |
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| Vratha | hahaha, that would be funny to us outside observers | 04:56 |
| AakashPatel | Lol | 04:56 |
| AakashPatel | Bur srsly | 04:56 |
| AakashPatel | this tiny scratch | 04:56 |
| AakashPatel | D: | 04:56 |
| w00t | I thank god I bought a screen protector | 04:57 |
| w00t | else I'd have no end of scratches | 04:58 |
| yuizy | which protector do you have? | 04:58 |
| * w00t is a harsh master | 04:59 | |
| w00t | durasec | 04:59 |
| w00t | though I'd not recommend it | 04:59 |
| AakashPatel | ehhh | 04:59 |
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| w00t | it's ok, but a pain in the *ass* to apply, and i'm not confident it's sticking properly | 04:59 |
| AakashPatel | My motto is, why protect something when it'll eventualy break anyways | 04:59 |
| AakashPatel | just show off this damn shiny beast | 05:00 |
| w00t | I'd like it to remain pristine as long as I can, really | 05:00 |
| ShadowJK | w00t, mine stuck.. with lots of bubbles.. and I misaligned it originally | 05:00 |
| AakashPatel | eh theres that point when you first get a little damage on it | 05:00 |
| AakashPatel | and you freak out | 05:00 |
| ShadowJK | most of the bubbles went away after a couple of days | 05:00 |
| w00t | the bubbles ARGH THE BUBBLES | 05:00 |
| yuizy | :D | 05:00 |
| AakashPatel | (i do that with every peice of electronics i have lol) | 05:01 |
| w00t | I still have some on the top end of the screen, small ones | 05:01 |
| ShadowJK | now after like 2 weeks or something... the thing has so many scratches it's unbelievable :_) | 05:01 |
| w00t | yeah | 05:01 |
| w00t | same | 05:01 |
| ShadowJK | Most of them go away when you look at the screen contents, except 3 | 05:01 |
| ShadowJK | that warp light or something | 05:01 |
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| AakashPatel | oh well | 05:02 |
| AakashPatel | first scratch of many to come lol | 05:02 |
| ShadowJK | I have 5 more in the drawer though | 05:02 |
| w00t | ShadowJK: I used up around 3 trying to put the bastard on | 05:03 |
| w00t | I was in too much of a rush | 05:03 |
| w00t | (>_>) | 05:03 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 05:03 |
| ShadowJK | I ordered 3 of the vquiti or something.. | 05:03 |
| yuizy | is the vquiti one any good? | 05:04 |
| yuizy | http://www.protectionfilms24.com/article/vikuiti-dqc-160-screen-protector-nokia-n900-28210.html | 05:04 |
| yuizy | this one | 05:04 |
| ShadowJK | haven't received mine yet | 05:05 |
| yuizy | have you heard any comments? | 05:05 |
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| ShadowJK | seems highly regarded on tmo, I'm told | 05:06 |
| yuizy | cool | 05:08 |
| fnordianslippers | i got a vikuiti. good fit, touch still useable, but i got bubbles and crud under it, so binned it. might get a couple more of them. | 05:14 |
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| * Arkenoi has just one micro scratch after 2 weeks of use, that's almost ok | 05:21 | |
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| Arkenoi | i am afraid screen protector makes touch less responsive and affects the view | 05:21 |
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| AakashPatel | Arkenoi: same here | 05:22 |
| Arkenoi | i think i'd better buy a leather case so i won't accidentally damage the phone after throwing it into the same pocket with the keys while drunk or something ;-) | 05:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Arkenoi: same here | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'd really like to learn how much the touchpanel screen surface costs when ordered via a nokia repair shop | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'd prefer to replace the original rather than any protector | 05:26 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 05:26 |
| jkimball4 | so dell can't RMA by n900 because they don't have it in their db. won't get any until 29th | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if it's some 20 bucks or such... so what, twice a year | 05:27 |
| jkimball4 | so i'm stuck with this one that turns off randomly until early january it looks like | 05:27 |
| Arkenoi | i am afraid it is one module with the screen itself | 05:27 |
| Arkenoi | so it may be more like $150 or so | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Arkenoi: it,s not | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | see video | 05:28 |
| Arkenoi | well, if it is really $20, then there is no reason to bother yourself with protectors | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | exactly my pov | 05:29 |
| AakashPatel | Taking apart your fone o.O | 05:31 |
| * AakashPatel passes out | 05:31 | |
| * DocScrutinizer51 creates task "visit nokia shop. get their prices for replacing front plastic" | 05:31 | |
| Macer | well | 05:31 |
| Macer | i suppose i will turn my n810 running maemo4 and canola2 into something to hook up to some speakers and play mp3s :) | 05:31 |
| Macer | heh | 05:31 |
| Macer | seems to have lost its appeal as of late | 05:32 |
| Macer | wow canola2 is taking forever to install | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Macer: I'm still happy with my 810. Also for MP3 playback (frequently used mode of use) :-D | 05:33 |
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| microlith | wow | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also I'm quite off mainstream as I think N810 kbd is *better* than N900 | 05:35 |
| microlith | I'm more impressed than I thought I would be with the speakers in the N900 | 05:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not bad for such a small volume device | 05:35 |
| microlith | nope | 05:36 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer51: heh | 05:36 |
| Macer | is there a plugin for canola2 to automatically download cover art? | 05:37 |
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| jkimball4 | is there a way to turn on debug logging in maemo ? maybe i can troubleshoot this shut off issue myself | 05:37 |
| jkimball4 | no syslogs or anything that i can see | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dunno. not using canola here. | 05:37 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer51: it's nice :) | 05:38 |
| Macer | it would be perfect if it auto downloaded album art | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | tseem to remember a plugin for that | 05:40 |
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| Macer | yeah | 05:41 |
| Macer | plugin for ogg too ;) | 05:41 |
| Macer | damn. there are a lot of plugins for canola. it's awesome heh. i should have used it a long time ago | 05:41 |
| Macer | too bad n810 lost its fm tuner :) | 05:41 |
| go1dfish | anyone figure out how to get alsa working inside of easy-debian-chroot? | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | anybody a clue which friggin app/update changed my N810 homescreen name to "tana_fi_home tana_fi_home_thumb" lately? Really annoying. And comes with a few other strange special FX | 05:45 |
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| johnx | some app lunched your localization | 05:46 |
| AakashPatel | if you squeeze the phone | 05:46 |
| johnx | uhm, there's a fix...have you searched talk.maemo.org? | 05:46 |
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| AakashPatel | The metal parts aroudn the screen | 05:46 |
| AakashPatel | is that supposed to be a little loose? | 05:46 |
| Macer | er. around an n810 screen? :) | 05:47 |
| AakashPatel | like you can see the metal flex, as if it werent on there tight | 05:47 |
| AakashPatel | n900 | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx: not yet | 05:47 |
| Macer | oh. don't know. not l33t enough to have an n900 haha | 05:47 |
| Macer | my G1 is good enough :) haha | 05:47 |
| AakashPatel | Yeah I think its normal | 05:48 |
| AakashPatel | If not...RMA's ftw | 05:49 |
| Macer | awesome. that plugin worked :) | 05:49 |
| Macer | canola just won my heart haha | 05:49 |
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| mark87 | Random question: Has anyone talked about putting fremantle on the Pandora? | 05:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | check out mer for this | 05:55 |
| Stskeeps | ~mer | 05:59 |
| infobot | i guess mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer | 05:59 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: what the -hell- are you doing awake | 06:01 |
| Macer | pandora? | 06:02 |
| Macer | isn't that like urban legend? | 06:02 |
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| Macer | w00t: did you receive it? | 06:02 |
| w00t | Macer: yes, haven't had much chance to play yet.. waiting on my adapter to arrive, hopefully tomorrow | 06:02 |
| Macer | adapter? | 06:02 |
| w00t | UK = different power socket | 06:02 |
| Macer | oh yeah | 06:02 |
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| Macer | haha. sorry. didn't think about that. would have gotten one from radio shack if i knew you needed it | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | time on weekend? bah | 06:03 |
| w00t | nah, no worries, it's fine | 06:03 |
| w00t | I needed another adapter anyway | 06:03 |
| Macer | do you need a converter? i am not sure if it can handle euro power | 06:03 |
| w00t | it can | 06:03 |
| w00t | (checked that first) | 06:03 |
| Macer | ok :) so you just need a cheap plastic adapter? | 06:03 |
| Macer | no store in the area sells that sort of thing? | 06:04 |
| w00t | yeah | 06:04 |
| w00t | unfortunately not | 06:04 |
| Macer | that sucks. they sell those things all over the place in iraq ;) | 06:04 |
| Macer | then again. i think in iraq i ran into like 4 different types of outlets | 06:04 |
| w00t | hahaha | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | use lab cables and clips ;-P | 06:04 |
| w00t | about the only place I -regularly- see them are electrical stores (a bit too far away from me, I have no car) or airports (which admittedly I am going to, but I'd like to play before) | 06:05 |
| w00t | so just ordered one online like a lazy bastard | 06:05 |
| w00t | :P | 06:05 |
| Macer | w00t: well. i wiped the SD and put the stock aios on it | 06:05 |
| w00t | *nod*, appreciated | 06:05 |
| Macer | i'm sure you'll get mer going on it.. good luck with that thing :) it had me about to run it over with my car | 06:05 |
| w00t | though god it is annoying. | 06:05 |
| w00t | :P | 06:05 |
| Macer | yeah. aios is horrible | 06:06 |
| Macer | they had a pic of some bullshit one in popular mechanics i think it was | 06:06 |
| Macer | a touchbook | 06:06 |
| w00t | *will be happy when it runs a sane environment* | 06:06 |
| Macer | and it was like all space age and shit.. NOTHING like the one i got :) it must be the touchbook5 or something | 06:06 |
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| Macer | w00t: you will have to open the kb and add weights to it | 06:06 |
| Macer | so it doesn't tip heh | 06:06 |
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| w00t | to be honest - the design seems ok, pretty much as i expected | 06:07 |
| w00t | yeah | 06:07 |
| w00t | definitely noticed that | 06:07 |
| Macer | i was going to do it but didn't see the point in the effort since i was going to ebay it after like 2 months of owning it | 06:07 |
| Macer | 1 of which it spent underneath my bed and forgotten | 06:07 |
| Arkenoi | Is Mer going to be useful on 700 or it is just PoC? ;-) | 06:07 |
| w00t | what annoyed you most about it? | 06:07 |
| Arkenoi | 770 even | 06:07 |
| w00t | Arkenoi: useful in what way? | 06:08 |
| Macer | w00t: everything :) | 06:08 |
| Macer | i honestly expected a better n810 heh | 06:08 |
| w00t | Macer: ..ah | 06:08 |
| Macer | with an os capable of performing like maemo4 at the least | 06:08 |
| Macer | with a REAL touch interface | 06:08 |
| Macer | the tipping | 06:08 |
| Macer | the random screen blanking | 06:08 |
| w00t | I suspect if they hadn't used.. what is it.. xfce(?) then they'd be further along | 06:08 |
| w00t | oh yeah | 06:08 |
| Macer | which i'm sure you will notice in aios soon enough :) | 06:08 |
| w00t | i got a screen blank today :P | 06:08 |
| Macer | it is like totally random | 06:08 |
| w00t | (i still play with it minimally on battery) | 06:09 |
| Macer | i tried everything to fix it | 06:09 |
| Macer | oh yeah | 06:09 |
| Arkenoi | w00t: usable replacement for 2007HE | 06:09 |
| Macer | the sensor that only works on 1 battery | 06:09 |
| Macer | uhm.... | 06:09 |
| Macer | the touch screen should have been more sensitive | 06:09 |
| Arkenoi | at least more stable than 2008HE | 06:09 |
| Arkenoi | which is almost unusable there | 06:09 |
| w00t | Arkenoi: forgive me, but I'm rather new to the scene :P | 06:09 |
| Macer | but worst of all. there is no real os for it that makes it suck less | 06:09 |
| w00t | so you'll have to be a bit more specific | 06:09 |
| w00t | Macer: isn't there a TB port already? | 06:10 |
| Macer | calling that aios beta .. is like... a massive overstatement as to where the os is | 06:10 |
| Macer | w00t: yeah. there is a mer port | 06:10 |
| * w00t nods | 06:10 | |
| Macer | but mer was pretty alpha also ;) | 06:10 |
| w00t | right :P | 06:10 |
| Macer | i'd rather stick with the G1 or the n810 with maemo4. i think i've given up on the gadgets for a while | 06:10 |
| w00t | a lot of mer is atm, but I suspect it'll settle down in coming weeks/month or two.. | 06:10 |
| Macer | mer isn't bad. just the ui ;) | 06:10 |
| Macer | the base is great.. like running a portable ubuntu heh | 06:11 |
| * w00t nods | 06:11 | |
| Macer | if you don't use the UI it's nice | 06:11 |
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| w00t | ui is something i hope to work on. | 06:11 |
| w00t | well, am working on | 06:11 |
| Macer | but that kind of defeats the purpose of a tablet ;) | 06:11 |
| w00t | definitely | 06:11 |
| Macer | i wish maemo4 ran on it | 06:11 |
| Macer | then i'd use it heh | 06:11 |
| Macer | so far maemo4 is the best one i've used.. then again i haven't gotten an n900 to try maemo5 out | 06:12 |
| w00t | maemo5 is great. | 06:12 |
| w00t | I say that without having used maemo4 | 06:12 |
| w00t | but I have totally fallen in love | 06:12 |
| Macer | well.. i stil use my n810 with maemo4.. it does a great job for what it is | 06:12 |
| w00t | sure | 06:12 |
| Macer | and believe it or not sometimes you find an update here and there stil :) | 06:12 |
| w00t | like i said a moment ago, i er, came a bit late to the game | 06:12 |
| w00t | much as i regret it now | 06:12 |
| Macer | well maemo is hands down the best touch type OS i have used.. but then again there aren't too many out there | 06:13 |
| w00t | Stskeeps tried to talk me into n800 ages ago, but i looked at it and didn't see the point to yet another gadget, but that was also before i really started to (ab)use portable devices a lot | 06:13 |
| w00t | i use my laptop fulltime at home | 06:13 |
| Macer | well. i guess there are NOW :) but when i got my n800 i think the iphone and the n8x0 were the only ones pulling it off right | 06:13 |
| w00t | there are a lot now, but they still suck. | 06:13 |
| Macer | i haven't tried the new palm stuff but i heard it was ok | 06:14 |
| w00t | i boycott it on the basis of it being palm | 06:14 |
| w00t | *evilgrin* | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | >:-) | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | portrait mode. bah | 06:15 |
| Macer | haha | 06:15 |
| w00t | mm | 06:15 |
| w00t | who needs that. | 06:15 |
| w00t | :P | 06:15 |
| w00t | i actually got the n900 portrait mode bug the other day | 06:16 |
| Macer | ah well. have to do a couple things and get some sleep. glad you received it. international shipping makes me scared sometimes | 06:16 |
| w00t | which would have been great, had i not been demoing the n900 to about 3 people at the time.. | 06:16 |
| Arkenoi | well, back in 90s palm was pure evil and survived surprisingly long being awful shit | 06:16 |
| Arkenoi | but i guess they are not so bad now ;-) | 06:16 |
| Arkenoi | at least there are good ideas to steal | 06:17 |
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| w00t | Macer: yeah, thanks :) cya around | 06:18 |
| w00t | Arkenoi: there was no alternative to them, unfortunately | 06:18 |
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| Arkenoi | woot: there was. the only point of early palm was to make pda that costs $200, not $600 like others, in 1994. Everything since then was pure legacy and gory consequences of approaches chosen to implement that. Shortly afterwards, that makes a religion, mostly alike to modern Apple fags: "if it was not implemented in PalmOS, then it is useless bell or whistle" | 06:22 |
| Arkenoi | and religion survives almost ten years, damn too much for such a crap | 06:22 |
| w00t | oh, of course | 06:23 |
| w00t | but that $200 was a very big selling point | 06:23 |
| Arkenoi | They had at least two chances to redesign the whole OS and missed it completely, preferred to stay with outdated and incapable thing. | 06:24 |
| w00t | :) | 06:24 |
| Arkenoi | even changing CPU architecture did not help | 06:24 |
| w00t | everyone makes mistakes | 06:24 |
| w00t | screwups on that proportion happen often over history | 06:25 |
| w00t | they're just extremely lucky they're still alive | 06:25 |
| Arkenoi | yes, that's a real miracle | 06:25 |
| w00t | a business that stands still isn't winning | 06:26 |
| w00t | it's atrophying | 06:26 |
| Arkenoi | back in 1994 i owned a prolinear pocket PC, it made circles around Palm | 06:26 |
| Arkenoi | though its design was already 5 years old | 06:26 |
| w00t | *nod* | 06:26 |
| Arkenoi | it was almost "Poqet" of 1989, just a bit faster cpu | 06:26 |
| w00t | other thing to consider is the marketing | 06:27 |
| Arkenoi | yep | 06:27 |
| Arkenoi | they proved the fact so-called "geeks" are just as incapable of independant thinking and being inquisitive as "general customers" | 06:27 |
| Arkenoi | just a bit different advertisement methods and everyone knows that "Palm is ultimate geek toy" | 06:28 |
| Arkenoi | though there were dozens of others | 06:28 |
| w00t | no different to what nokia is going for here really | 06:28 |
| Arkenoi | nokia made me wonder with communicator series | 06:28 |
| w00t | (with the possible exception of it probably being the closest thing to truth to have hit the market in a while) | 06:29 |
| w00t | oh god yes | 06:29 |
| w00t | communicator.. E90 was it? | 06:29 |
| Arkenoi | because it *WAS* ultimate geek toy | 06:29 |
| Arkenoi | but they marketed it for managers instead | 06:29 |
| Arkenoi | 9000 | 06:29 |
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| Arkenoi | my first one was 9000i in 1998 | 06:29 |
| w00t | I'm not that old fyi | 06:30 |
| w00t | I was just leaving primary school in 1998 | 06:30 |
| w00t | but the E90, dear god, I strongly considered going for that before being told to wait a while and see whether anything more interesting happened | 06:30 |
| w00t | so I did, nearly going insane in the process | 06:30 |
| w00t | but now I have my precious | 06:30 |
| w00t | my life | 06:30 |
| w00t | my baby | 06:30 |
| * w00t rubs it | 06:30 | |
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| w00t | ahem. | 06:32 |
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| * Arkenoi owned just every model in communicator series except 9300s since 1998. 9000i, 9110, 9110i, 9210, 9210i, 9500, e90 | 06:36 | |
| w00t | jesus :P | 06:37 |
| Arkenoi | but seems that n900 is the first one designed as i expected, despite crappy keyboard | 06:38 |
| w00t | i'm actually really happy to be back with a nokia | 06:38 |
| w00t | i've been in the horrible land of ericsson and winmo for the past 3-4 years | 06:38 |
| Arkenoi | i was going to switch to Android, looking at the Milestone | 06:38 |
| Arkenoi | but just won n900 on maemo meetup and it proved to be really good | 06:39 |
| w00t | that is ..insanely lucky :) | 06:39 |
| Arkenoi | in just a few hours i was sure - no, i won't switch to anything else ;-) | 06:42 |
| w00t | yeah, same | 06:43 |
| w00t | i was evaluating hd2, but, i've had enough of windows mobile. | 06:43 |
| Arkenoi | android is nice, but not *that* nice. i played with Hero a bit, it is a good phone, but n900 is way better | 06:44 |
| w00t | mhm | 06:47 |
| go1dfish | anybody got pulseaudio network working? | 06:48 |
| go1dfish | im trying to use pulseaudio as a way to get sound out of my debian chroot to the device proper | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | winmo AAAAAARG | 06:49 |
| go1dfish | currently getting connection refused after setting my default server to 127.0.0.1 in the chroot | 06:49 |
| w00t | DocScrutinizer51: it's fine provided you don't breathe on it the wrong way | 06:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 coughs and turns blue | 06:49 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | w00t: I had 3 winmoob devices and really disliked each single one of them | 07:00 |
| w00t | more or less the same | 07:00 |
| w00t | :) | 07:00 |
| Foxx | DocScrutinizer, which devices? | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | moto Q9, glofiish M800, OMNIA | 07:02 |
| Foxx | oooof, yeah, those are trainwrecks | 07:02 |
| Foxx | they fight you tooth and nail | 07:02 |
| Foxx | I have had a few, out of the box they were horrible. With some ROM Hacking/cooking they were much better | 07:02 |
| Pavlov | the hd2 is the best winmo device out right now | 07:02 |
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| Pavlov | and it still lacks in many ways | 07:03 |
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| Foxx | Dell Axim X51V PDA, HTC Wizard, HTC Wing, and a few others I cant recall | 07:03 |
| Pavlov | though the hardware is great | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | i'm honestly fed up and thru with anything origin Redmond | 07:03 |
| w00t | I'm annoyed to admit I like windows seven, but yeah, they've completely ballsed up windows mobile | 07:04 |
| Foxx | ive got a G1, I hate the damn thing | 07:04 |
| Pavlov | the g1 is horrible | 07:04 |
| Pavlov | w00t: well, winmo is basically still the same as winmo6 -- if they move to a ce6+ kernel or win7 kernel they're going to be much much better off... along with better apps, of course | 07:05 |
| Foxx | im not even going to start with my laundry list of gripes | 07:05 |
| Pavlov | ce6 runs at least 1.5x faster than winmo6.5 on the same hardware | 07:05 |
| Pavlov | maybe 2x | 07:05 |
| Pavlov | Foxx: the droid is pretty decent, but still needs more polish | 07:06 |
| Foxx | im not a fan of android right now | 07:07 |
| Foxx | great idea, bad implementation | 07:07 |
| Pavlov | have you used the droid? | 07:07 |
| Pavlov | its 10000x better than the g1 | 07:07 |
| Foxx | not yet, im too poor to keep buying new cell phones that dont work well as a cell phone | 07:08 |
| Foxx | im half tempted to go back to my Moto' V635 | 07:08 |
| Pavlov | the good news though really is that people across the board are starting to put out really nice hardware and are making software stacks vastly better | 07:09 |
| Pavlov | a year from now the options should be pretty rediculious (maybe even 6 months from now?) | 07:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Foxx: sounds like OM trauma :-D | 07:11 |
| Foxx | OM? | 07:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Openmoko | 07:12 |
| Foxx | never had/used one | 07:12 |
| Pavlov | ugh, openmoko was just bad | 07:12 |
| Foxx | my main gripe is that out of the box the G1 didnt work very well as a phone. Mostly software crashes, and the updates made it work | 07:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ohh. so there a actually other phones that "don,t work as a phone"? | 07:13 |
| Foxx | Someone called, dialer crashed | 07:13 |
| Foxx | needed to make a call, dialer crashed | 07:13 |
| Foxx | needed to check a number, dialer crashed | 07:13 |
| Foxx | took a pic', camera crashed | 07:13 |
| Foxx | looked at a pic, camera crashed | 07:13 |
| Pavlov | heh yeah | 07:13 |
| Foxx | wanted to change a ring tone, had to install a new app... that crashed | 07:14 |
| Foxx | not to mention most of the apps on the market are designed by people that really dont know WTF they are doing | 07:14 |
| Foxx | adware on my phone now, SCREW THAT! | 07:15 |
| Foxx | when my battery is low, which is a 3A cell, so 15% isnt all that low, and fucked if they let me change when it warns me... | 07:15 |
| Foxx | it makes a popup "You need to change your battery [Ok] [Why?]" | 07:16 |
| Foxx | why? I know why the battery is low, you dont have to tell me | 07:16 |
| Pavlov | the n900 normally warns you right as it turns itself off | 07:16 |
| Pavlov | heh | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | heh. not exactly | 07:17 |
| Pavlov | sometimes it cries for a little while first | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | on my one test done so far the system shut down ~90min after nat at 0 and first warning | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | s/nat/bat | 07:18 |
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| Foxx | when the n900 doesnt cost as much as my rent, ill pick one up | 07:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Foxx: well, if you're not going with a contract and subsidized then you'll quite probably have to wait a while | 07:22 |
| Foxx | yeah, I know, it will be a while | 07:22 |
| Foxx | Plus I am under contract with this G1 until 2011 >:/ | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | oh, too bad | 07:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | though I'm sure the contract doesn't mean you can't use N900 with same SIM | 07:24 |
| * Arkenoi is playing with sms sending service. not only it is cheaper than sending via local operator, i may choose any number to appear as sender. | 07:25 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | heh, for SMS that's new to me. Well kinda. You can do that for SIP calls though | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping | 07:28 |
| infobot | ~pong | 07:28 |
| * Arkenoi tries to think out some funny prank, but i am too sleepy now ;-) | 07:28 | |
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| Arkenoi | send a message appearing as from oneself "your phone is hacked" and watch him searching for malware? ;-) | 07:30 |
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| Arkenoi | was hacked, even | 07:30 |
| Arkenoi | anyways | 07:30 |
| Macer | lol | 07:31 |
| Macer | star trek cracks me up | 07:31 |
| Macer | "That's in the southern part of the Galaxy." | 07:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kabel1? | 07:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, xchat reregister after connection loss much better now. just the nick reclaiming and registration not quite what it should be yet | 07:34 |
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| el_zilcho | yay vnc :) | 08:03 |
| el_zilcho | is there an alt equivalent or do i need to keep using /win to change my selected chan? | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | esc? | 08:06 |
| el_zilcho | esc 2 doesnt work | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | seriously, what morons made ovi maps.. | 08:14 |
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| ShadowJK | Macer, I think they actually talk about north and south, so.. | 08:21 |
| ShadowJK | in real life I mean | 08:21 |
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| microlith | ...reboot | 08:25 |
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| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, with half the features of wayfinder on N810, they manage to be twice as slow as wayfinder on N810, on a device that has ~2X the performance. It's quite impressive really. | 08:26 |
| * luke-jr wonders why he is doing this | 08:27 | |
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| ShadowJK | What are you doing? | 08:27 |
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| luke-jr | designing a keyboard layout optimized for thumb typing <.< | 08:28 |
| ShadowJK | the thumb keyboard in maemo4/maemo5 turns out to be much more usable on n900 than n8x0 | 08:29 |
| ShadowJK | I think it's because the screen isn't inside a pit, and it has decent sensitivity.. | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | what does the screen have to do with it? | 08:29 |
| Klowner | oooh, Nokia wants my feedback regarding their service, muahahah | 08:31 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, hm. a hw keyboard? | 08:32 |
| ShadowJK | Klowner, last time I tried, that questionaire didn't work. I laughed | 08:32 |
| Klowner | ShadowJK: was it a digiumenterprise.com url? | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: yes, one for thumbs | 08:33 |
| ShadowJK | Klowner, hm, not sure | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | curiously, I seem to type 0 and 1 more than all the other digits combined... | 08:33 |
| ShadowJK | Klowner, are those the same clowns that run the online shop website? | 08:33 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, maybe you just need a one-handed dvorak keyboard in your pocket | 08:33 |
| Klowner | ShadowJK: I don't think so, maybe.. I guess this is only in regard to my e-mail communications with them, which was basically absent | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: Dvorak is designed for a full hand at least | 08:33 |
| Klowner | seeing as it took over a week for them to respond to anything via email | 08:34 |
| Klowner | meh, this survey is insufficient for conveying my frustration in regards to their repair/replacement policy | 08:37 |
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| * Klowner reads through the case/pouch/screen protector thread again :/ | 08:44 | |
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| wazd | mornin' all | 09:02 |
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| Stskeeps | morn wazd | 09:09 |
| wazd | meh, we have "almost sunny" day :)\ | 09:10 |
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| wazd | Nokia sues Apple, Apple sues Nokia, TechCrunch sues JooJoo, Sherlock Holmes sues Dr. Watson | 09:12 |
| pwnguin_n900 | i like the patent for packaging that apple trotted out | 09:16 |
| pwnguin_n900 | granted, all patents are unreadable when done "well" | 09:17 |
| dmj7261 | pwnguin_n900: How many hundred thousand software patents have you read and understood? | 09:17 |
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| pwnguin_n900 | none | 09:18 |
| pwnguin_n900 | dmj7261: did you have a point: | 09:19 |
| pwnguin_n900 | ? | 09:19 |
| dmj7261 | just pointing out one of the bigger issues with software patents. | 09:19 |
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| dmj7261 | people can't really determine whether their software does infringe on any. | 09:22 |
| pwnguin_n900 | and if you do read a patent, and are found infringing on it, you're liable for treble damages | 09:23 |
| dmj7261 | yep | 09:23 |
| pwnguin_n900 | anyways, this is the choir | 09:24 |
| dmj7261 | so the incentive is to a) ignore them and b) file patents and sue people and c) don't make software | 09:24 |
| dmj7261 | yeah | 09:24 |
| dmj7261 | I figured. | 09:24 |
| pwnguin_n900 | time to try out telepathy-idle | 09:24 |
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| Gadgetoid | Moaning! | 09:30 |
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| redeeman | go1dfish: did you install the debian chroot on a microsd card? | 09:40 |
| crashanddie_mbp | dmj7261 & pwnguin: you're idiots | 09:41 |
| go1dfish | redeeman: yeah | 09:41 |
| redeeman | go1dfish: lenny or sid? | 09:42 |
| go1dfish | redeeman: used easy-debian-chroot as the base image | 09:42 |
| go1dfish | disabled the sid repos | 09:42 |
| go1dfish | so I think it's primarily squeeze | 09:42 |
| dmj7261 | crashanddie_mbp: how so? | 09:42 |
| crashanddie_mbp | brainlessly bashing patents is just that: brainless | 09:43 |
| crashanddie_mbp | you're not allowed to criticise something (based on the fact others hate it) unless you have a firm grasp of it | 09:43 |
| dmj7261 | I do in fact have a firm grasp of it. | 09:44 |
| redeeman | go1dfish: ah, i was thinking of debootstrapping one | 09:44 |
| Lateralus | crashanddie_mbp: you see to that personally I see... | 09:44 |
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| redeeman | go1dfish: so you use ext3 on the microsd card? | 09:48 |
| go1dfish | yeah | 09:48 |
| go1dfish | considering partitioning it though half fat32, so I can maybe set up a ubuntu boot image on it for windows boxes I encounter | 09:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Sorry but US patent usual practice is so completely fubar and braindamaged. And it spreads all over the world | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | patent the smell of a fart | 09:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | and sw-patents are worst of all | 09:52 |
| dmj7261 | It's possible that patents work/fail to cause harm in some industries, but software patents cause a good deal of harm without any proof of actual benefits from them. | 09:52 |
| crashanddie_mbp | the N900 exists thanks to software patents | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | errrrryep. obviously | 09:53 |
| crashanddie_mbp | ARM anyone? | 09:53 |
| dmj7261 | umm...no it doesn't | 09:54 |
| Lateralus | that's largely a uselessly broad statement | 09:54 |
| dmj7261 | Software patents are not the *cause*, even when they are made in parallel with the software. | 09:54 |
| redeeman | crashanddie_mbp: you obviously have no idea what you're talking about | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ARM is exactly ZERO related to *software* patents | 09:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | redeeman: right | 09:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | oh my bad | 09:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | sleepy head | 09:55 |
| redeeman | but that is to be expected for someone adding _mbp to their nick | 09:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | lol | 09:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | that the best you can do? | 09:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I apologise, I missed the *software* part | 09:55 |
| redeeman | besides, even without patents we'd still have ARM, or if not ARM(if they werent competitive), someone else that's better | 09:56 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I honestly doubt that | 09:56 |
| redeeman | you should look into why patents were created, and how they fail miserably to achieve the goal | 09:57 |
| Xisdibik | I honestly cant understand why this conversation is going on at 11:56pm :P my brain hurts just thinking at this hou | 09:57 |
| Xisdibik | hour* | 09:57 |
| redeeman | most especially software patents | 09:57 |
| crashanddie_mbp | One of the main facts that allows ARM to remain so successful is the fact they don't have to wait for production and product lifetimes | 09:57 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Xisdibik: waiting for the hotel wifi to allow my flick to stop buffering | 09:57 |
| crashanddie_mbp | (again, not talking about software patents) | 09:57 |
| Xisdibik | what flick | 09:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not everybody sharing your TZ, Xisdibik | 09:58 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Xisdibik: inglorious basterds | 09:58 |
| Xisdibik | awesome movie crashanddie_mbp | 09:58 |
| Lateralus | just everyone who matters | 09:58 |
| crashanddie_mbp | is it? | 09:58 |
| Lateralus | :p | 09:58 |
| Xisdibik | DocScrutinizer: lies, everyone uses my time zone ;) | 09:58 |
| Xisdibik | crashanddie_mbp: yes one of the best ones i saw this year | 09:59 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I'm nearly at the end, and it's pretty far from any kind of reality | 09:59 |
| Xisdibik | its not supposed to e | 09:59 |
| Xisdibik | be* | 09:59 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Or maybe I'm missing the point of the movie, but at least it's entertaining | 09:59 |
| Xisdibik | the last word in your sentence is the point :p | 09:59 |
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| pupnik | i love waking up, reaching for tablet, and chatting in comfortable bed | 10:50 |
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| pupnik | but then again, the day is for deeds... | 10:51 |
| ruskie | lol | 10:52 |
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| pupnik | The Other Scott Horton, international human rights lawyer, professor and contributing editor at Harpers Magazine, discusses the astonishing facts of the "suicide" death of guantanamo detainees (called "attacks of asymmetrical warfare" in us media). http://antiwar.com/radio/2009/12/11/scott-horton-25/ | 11:00 |
| pupnik | oops | 11:00 |
| pupnik | wrong chan | 11:00 |
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| wiretapped | anyone know why otr isn't included with pidgin ? | 11:19 |
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| RST38h | MOO | 11:21 |
| luke-jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/hhkeys.html | 11:21 |
| luke-jr | comments/criticism? :p | 11:21 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: around? | 11:21 |
| RST38h | Anyone else willing to screw with the autobuilder around? | 11:21 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, what's that? | 11:27 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: keyboard layout designed for thumb-typing | 11:27 |
| wiretapped | _|Nix|_: what's up with pidgin-otr? | 11:27 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: optimization input is English Perl :p | 11:28 |
| wiretapped | luke-jr: lol | 11:28 |
| luke-jr | wiretapped: ? | 11:28 |
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| luke-jr | wiretapped: in theory, I think it has every symbol you'd need? :P | 11:29 |
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| RST38h | Ok, the bugfixed FBReader is now in Extras-Devel-nonfree | 11:34 |
| RST38h | Going into -free as soon as I find someone who can push it through autobuilder | 11:34 |
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| luke-jr | there, now the only normal keys it's missing are *Lock, Meta, PrintScrn/SysRq, Pause/Break | 11:36 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: i think esc is a nice substitute for Meta most of the time, so it's ok. | 11:37 |
| luke-jr | :o | 11:37 |
| luke-jr | it IS missing Esc... | 11:37 |
| wiretapped | i'm missing some things | 11:38 |
| wiretapped | where do I install less from? | 11:38 |
| luke-jr | actually, probably the biggest problem is that it uses the full 64 key matrix | 11:38 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: (missing esc) how to use vim or anything then? | 11:38 |
| luke-jr | leaving no room for any extra keys like Cancel/OK (Esc/Enter) or such | 11:38 |
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| luke-jr | PaulFertser: think it'd be too hacky to define Esc as a hardware mapped Fn+Q or such? | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wiretapped: good question | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | moin paul | 11:40 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: also while working with bash i find M-. to be mad useful, it's faster than typing $!! | 11:41 |
| PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer51: moin | 11:41 |
| luke-jr | PaulFertser: M-??? | 11:41 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: (dot) | 11:41 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: yank-last-arg (M-., M-_) in any readline app. | 11:41 |
| luke-jr | English? :/ | 11:42 |
| luke-jr | M- short for "Meta + ..."? | 11:42 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: pardon? | 11:42 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: ah, yep, sure, that's emacs-style notation used in all gnu projects, including GNU Readline library used by pretty much any interactive app on a modern GNU/Linux system. | 11:43 |
| luke-jr | I see. | 11:43 |
| luke-jr | Well, might need to map one of the Ctrl/Alt then :p | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | PaulFertser: obviously luke-jr isn,t aware of the benefits of alt-. | 11:43 |
| luke-jr | already short on keys | 11:43 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: Meta is not Alt | 11:43 |
| luke-jr | or at least, when I say Meta i mean the key that has a Windows/Apple/Tux icon on it | 11:44 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: with default PC layout Alt is mapped to Meta, both in X and console. | 11:44 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 11:44 |
| luke-jr | what do you call Win/Apple/Tux then? | 11:44 |
| guaqua | Hyper | 11:44 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: alternatively you press Esc, depress it and press what you want, that is also meta. | 11:44 |
| luke-jr | i c | 11:44 |
| luke-jr | well, there are left and right Alt keys in my layout :p | 11:45 |
| luke-jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/hhkeys.html | 11:45 |
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| PaulFertser | luke-jr: but alt is a bad substitute for Esc ;) | 11:45 |
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| Lantizia | Lo, got my N900 yesterday and I'm compelely clueless how you are supposed to access the SD card to transfer files over BT | 11:46 |
| luke-jr | PaulFertser: hence my question on the practicality of hardware keymapping | 11:46 |
| Lantizia | the file manager is beyond a joke | 11:46 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: (i didn't notice alt in the layout and you said you lack meta, that's why i was confused) | 11:46 |
| pupnik | impressive flash paint app www.sumo.fi/flash/sumopaint | 11:47 |
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| PaulFertser | luke-jr: imho the default (the one nokia thinks is the best obviously) layout both in n810 and n900 is far from ideal for a typical command-line usage, so remapping the keyboard is obviously beneficial. | 11:48 |
| luke-jr | PaulFertser: any idea if, in designing hardware keyboards on handhelds, mapping an Esc/Cancel key to a combination (Fn+] for instance) is practical? | 11:48 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: well, for vim user that would be a disaster, so i think it should be configurable. I think it's acceptable provided you're not heavy vim user and alt/meta is present as a separate key. | 11:49 |
| luke-jr | why would it be a disaster? | 11:49 |
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| luke-jr | it would only mean you couldn't use Fn + ] or Fn + Esc :p | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nota bene esc == ctrl-[ | 11:51 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: well, i might be wrong here. Just try to use vim for everyday tasks pressing two keys instead of one every time you need esc. Probably it'll be ok, i don't know. | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err ] | 11:51 |
| luke-jr | PaulFertser: no, I mean a physical Cancel/Escape key that *sends* Fn + ] | 11:51 |
| PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer51: nope, it's [, and yes, thanks for mentioning it, i've already forgot that stuff :) | 11:51 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: ? | 11:51 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I'm about to move to the other side of the planet | 11:51 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I've been talking about it for weeks, but for some reason, it just dawned on me | 11:52 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: you can press C-[ and it's the same as Esc with default terminal settings. | 11:52 |
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| luke-jr | PaulFertser: ok, C-[ then :p | 11:53 |
| luke-jr | PaulFertser: my question is, would it be practical to have a single physical key that sends that combination when pressed? | 11:53 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: of course there should be a physical key that sends C-[ if you use vim. | 11:53 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: but probably C-[ is about enough too. | 11:53 |
| joppu | Any MacIntosh users around here? | 11:53 |
| PaulFertser | I need to try to avoid using hardware esc key to tell for sure. | 11:53 |
| crashanddie_mbp | joppu: yup | 11:53 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, two thumb typing? | 11:54 |
| luke-jr | PaulFertser: keep in mind with this layout, [ is Shift-{ | 11:54 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: yes | 11:54 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: oh, are you sure that shouldn't be the other way round? | 11:54 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, is this for fitting onto n810 keyboard or what? | 11:54 |
| joppu | crashanddie_mbp: are to build a theme for me? Please? | 11:55 |
| joppu | C | 11:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | eh? | 11:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Just because I have a mac means I have any design skills? | 11:55 |
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| ShadowJK | two ctrl, cool | 11:55 |
| Lantizia | crashanddie_mbp, yes it's genetic | 11:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Lantizia: oic | 11:56 |
| ShadowJK | 2 alt, AND a fn. that's more than on regular keyboards (I have one Alt, one Altgr (think fn) on mine) | 11:56 |
| joppu | crashanddie_mbp: :D I said build, I have the graphics ready, the building phase just doesn't work on Linux/Windows | 11:56 |
| crashanddie_mbp | joppu: care going into more detail? | 11:56 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: well, i've just tried using C-[ instead of hardware esc on my PC. Comfortable enough for me but i'm quite used to emacs-like bindings in general, so pressing C extra time is nothing special for me. | 11:56 |
| luke-jr | PaulFertser: I optimized the layout using Perl sources for key voting. | 11:57 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: for new hardware, but I recognize that many chipsets have a 64-key limit | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: ctrl-[ isn't exactly a combo. after keycode to char translation it,s a single byte char | 11:57 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 11:57 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: N810's physical key matrix is only 11 wide | 11:57 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: ok, but I mean from hardware to kernel :p | 11:58 |
| ShadowJK | hey you can put esc right of s | 11:58 |
| Lantizia | so any tips on N900 accessing the SD card? like how!? | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | from hw to kernel you *never* send combo | 11:58 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: right of S is Enter | 11:58 |
| luke-jr | err | 11:58 |
| luke-jr | space | 11:58 |
| PaulFertser | Lantizia: can't you just open a terminal, type mount. Then if it's not mounted type mount blabla blabla etc? | 11:58 |
| ShadowJK | oh right | 11:58 |
| ShadowJK | that's why it's... empty | 11:58 |
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| ShadowJK | Lantizia, did you close the back cover? | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: hw sends keycodes, plus down o up | 11:59 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: out of key codes | 11:59 |
| Lantizia | PaulFertser, tried that didn't work | 11:59 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: "plus down o up"? | 11:59 |
| PaulFertser | Lantizia: how exactly? Can you pastebin it? | 11:59 |
| Lantizia | ShadowJK, nope.... does it also need restarting | 11:59 |
| joppu | crashanddie_mbp: let's handle it in PM | 11:59 |
| Lantizia | PaulFertser, I'm not allowed access to the only dir in /media - let alone mounting it | 11:59 |
| ShadowJK | restarting not needed... having the cover on is needed | 11:59 |
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| PaulFertser | Lantizia: probably you should get root on _your_ device first? | 12:00 |
| Lantizia | PaulFertser, well I tried sudo su to get in and set via passwd but I don't know the 'users' password | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Lantizia: install rootsh | 12:01 |
| PaulFertser | Lantizia: you need to search the wiki or something... I have no idea why nokia devices do not come with easy root access by default. | 12:01 |
| Lantizia | DocScrutinizer, via apt? | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Lantizia: sudo gainroot | 12:01 |
| Lantizia | sd card shows up in file manager now the back is closed | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Lantizia: via packet manager | 12:01 |
| ShadowJK | Sending files over BT isn't supported by the filemanager. There's an app in Extras called Petrovich that can send files over BT, though. | 12:01 |
| Lantizia | ok | 12:02 |
| ShadowJK | application manager | 12:02 |
| PaulFertser | Petrovich! Davay vipyem! | 12:02 |
| Lantizia | so no apt-get on this? I have to use the gui? | 12:02 |
| ShadowJK | you can use apt-get after you have root | 12:02 |
| Lantizia | ah ok | 12:02 |
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| ShadowJK | to get root, you must install rootsh through application manager. After that, you can type "sudo gainroot" in xterm to get root | 12:02 |
| Lantizia | first thing I'll get is nano lol | 12:02 |
| ShadowJK | And if apt-get ever suggests or says it needs to remove a bunch of stuff in order to do what you asked it to, say no | 12:03 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 12:03 |
| Lantizia | and vorbis support | 12:03 |
| * PaulFertser almost hates nano for its uselessness and clumsinessness. | 12:03 | |
| Lantizia | to each their own | 12:03 |
| ShadowJK | nano is in sdktools repo, vorbis support is in Extras.. you should find it in application manager even | 12:04 |
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| Lantizia | well theres only like 8 things in application manager | 12:04 |
| ShadowJK | oh | 12:04 |
| Lantizia | and their all silly widgetty things | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Lantizia: enable extras | 12:04 |
| ShadowJK | tap the titlebar to bring out the menu, tap application catalogues | 12:04 |
| Lantizia | DocScrutinizer, that the equivalent of enabling contrib? :D | 12:04 |
| ShadowJK | tap maemo extras, tap the tickbox next to disabled, so that the tick is gone | 12:04 |
| ShadowJK | tap save | 12:05 |
| Lantizia | got it :D | 12:05 |
| ShadowJK | "Ogg Support" in app manager | 12:05 |
| Lantizia | 99% of all my music is in vorbis, it's an essential ingredient :) | 12:06 |
| ShadowJK | it even does flac | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: where,s less? | 12:06 |
| ShadowJK | sdk tools, http://repository.maemo.org, fremantle/tools, free non-free | 12:07 |
| ShadowJK | iirc | 12:07 |
| ShadowJK | I disable that repo after installing stuff from it.. | 12:07 |
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| ShadowJK | Lantizia, if you're a commandline type person, you probably want to install "Openssh client and server" from application manager too, then you can ssh into your n900 ;) | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: I have fremantle/tools. No less. No strace... :-/ | 12:10 |
| Lantizia | ShadowJK, already seen it :D | 12:10 |
| Lantizia | ShadowJK, thanks | 12:10 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, hm | 12:10 |
| ShadowJK | where did I get it from then.. | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | got a 3xx permanently moved error some days ago. still no less though works now | 12:11 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, hm, I find it with apt-cache search and I've only got Nokia* and Extras enabled.. | 12:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | darn | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and it's found on search for less? | 12:12 |
| ShadowJK | no that was nano | 12:13 |
| ShadowJK | but less is found too | 12:13 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 going to kick off another repo update | 12:14 | |
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| pupnik | How is the bypassing clutter and pulseaudio going RST38h | 12:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | great. appman totally frozen | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wtf?! | 12:19 |
| ShadowJK | ctrl-backspace and do something else :D | 12:19 |
| ShadowJK | while waiting for it | 12:19 |
| luke-jr | o.o | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not even a close-X in dashboard | 12:19 |
| luke-jr | lm8323 actually has 8x12, not 8x8 | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: ctrl-bs just opens dash | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | weird | 12:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 hugs his shell | 12:22 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | duh. the search dialog was hidden behind the search results o.O | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (enter) fixed it | 12:24 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | still no less | 12:27 |
| ShadowJK | where the hell did I get mine from :) | 12:28 |
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| jebba | morn | 12:33 |
| Lantizia | Is there like a complete list of official and unofficial rtepositories (for apt) that work with maemo 5? | 12:33 |
| Lantizia | maybe one with nano in it? :D | 12:33 |
| Lantizia | i don't just want to add the debian ones in - I have a feel that'd be BAD | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well. no less. no trace. no nano... | 12:35 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 puzzled | 12:35 | |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:41 |
| lardman | morn Jaffa | 12:41 |
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| lardman | I can't seem to find where icons need to be placed, and whether we need multiple sizes, am I missing the obvious> | 12:43 |
| lardman | ? | 12:43 |
| Jaffa | lardman: http://thpinfo.com/2008/02/maemo-icon-sizes.html | 12:48 |
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| lardman | thanks Jaffa, glad it's not just me having troubles finding any docs | 12:49 |
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| ShadowJK | Lantizia, http://repository.maemo.org/ | 12:50 |
| ShadowJK | using the SDK repos on the device is a bit so-so. the tools part of it is mostly safe, but make sure you don't agree to anything apt proposes. | 12:51 |
| ShadowJK | extras-testing and extras-devel information can be found on the wiki | 12:51 |
| ShadowJK | Basically, only stuff in extras has been tested. -testing and -devel can be considered unsafe (and tools), only use them if you're prepared to reflash your n900 and dont mind losing settings/stuff on it, etc.. | 12:52 |
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| lardman | is $(CURDIR) available in Makefile.am? | 12:58 |
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| lardman | I need to install some different sized icons, and not sure how to do it | 12:58 |
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| lardman | whether to rename and install from the same dir, changing the names back as they are copied (somehow) or to install from subdirs | 12:59 |
| lardman | any thougthts? | 12:59 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, two alts/ctrls is too much, imo | 12:59 |
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| slonopotamus | luke-jr, and shifts. | 13:00 |
| Jaffa | lardman: You can use install - but I dunno what's available inside Makefile.am; I've managed to avoid autoconf & friends :) | 13:00 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: ... | 13:00 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, i'd move shift to the very left. | 13:00 |
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| luke-jr | slonopotamus: even N810 has two shifts | 13:00 |
| lardman | Jaffa: yeah, well this is automake-tastic so I thought I'd try | 13:01 |
| luke-jr | heck, 2 and a half, since the right shift is wider | 13:01 |
| lardman | I think I know a way | 13:01 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, so holding it with one finder doesn't block access to letters for second finger | 13:01 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: say what? finder? | 13:01 |
| luke-jr | there are exactly two fingers, both thumbs | 13:01 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, s/finder/finger/ | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Feel like pushing a package through the autobuilder? | 13:02 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: that is why both mod keys are needed :p | 13:02 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: it is impossible for left thumb to reach keys on right side while right thumb holds mod key, and vice-versa | 13:03 |
| slonopotamus | ah, you want to use shift on the opposite side of key being shifted | 13:03 |
| luke-jr | I'm not certain it is possible to make a 1-finger keyboard... | 13:03 |
| luke-jr | though that would be ideal when driving | 13:03 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 13:03 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Conny suggests garage is broken right now; I've got a migraine; Mrs Jaffa's poorly and I'm trying to avoid getting stuck in to applying the various Hermes patches I've received and pushing *that* through the autobuilder... | 13:04 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: So, it's a definite "maybe" ;-) | 13:04 |
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| * Jaffa boggles at "a really good mail experience in those devices". Well, at least Modest on the desktop should attract some more patches :) | 13:04 | |
| RST38h | Jaffa: ok, I will ask someone else | 13:05 |
| range | I still can't use modest, for some reason it kills my imap server. So at the moment it is mutt for me ... | 13:05 |
| * RST38h has made a few fixes to FBReader, uploaded to non-free for now, needs someone to upload to free | 13:05 | |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Can't you push it to free? | 13:05 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: It does not like me | 13:06 |
| Jaffa | (not a sarcastic question) | 13:06 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I.e. I can, but it will take 4-6 hours which I do not have | 13:06 |
| lardman | RST38h: I'm probably going to push one in a minute or two | 13:06 |
| RST38h | So looking for someone who knows the workflow and can do it quickly | 13:06 |
| lardman | Jaffa: what devices are these with good mail experience? | 13:07 |
| RST38h | lardman: Should I give you the tarball? | 13:07 |
| lardman | RST38h: tar.gz + .dsc + .diff? | 13:07 |
| Jaffa | lardman: This is from http://blogs.igalia.com/dape/2009/12/11/whats-going-on-in-modest-new-gnomemoblin-port/ | 13:07 |
| RST38h | lardman: tgz + updated changes file inside | 13:07 |
| lardman | RST38h: does it buld as a debian package? | 13:08 |
| RST38h | lardman: yea | 13:08 |
| lardman | if so yeah, I'll generate the files for you | 13:08 |
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| lardman | go for it | 13:08 |
| RST38h | lardman: A moment then | 13:08 |
| lardman | Jaffa: reading | 13:08 |
| lardman | "Last months, Sergio Villar and me have been working on bringing the Modest user experience to both Gnome and Moblin" | 13:08 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, what fn is for, btw? | 13:08 |
| lardman | lol, is that like wishing for a plague? | 13:09 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: &|^~` | 13:09 |
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| slonopotamus | luke-jr, put some of them on shift+5/* | 13:09 |
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| TomaszD | thp, around? | 13:10 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, dot and ampersand | 13:10 |
| slonopotamus | err | 13:11 |
| slonopotamus | s/dot/tilde/ | 13:11 |
| lardman | *groan* uses glade for the menus | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: I,m somewhat lost. triple checked all my repos in appman. diabled and reenabled each single catalog. no less no trace no gdb no nano. Any hint what else I could do? | 13:12 |
| slonopotamus | capslock = hold shift | 13:12 |
| RST38h | lardman: http://fms.komkon.org/fbreader-0.10.7-fms.tgz | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | noooooes | 13:13 |
| RST38h | lardman: The tarball includes some .o/.so/etc files, so do not upload it as it is :) | 13:13 |
| lardman | downloading now | 13:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | capslock = doubleclick shift | 13:13 |
| lardman | no problem | 13:13 |
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| slonopotamus | luke-jr, what are you gonna use it on?) | 13:13 |
| lardman | this is for Fremantle I take it? | 13:13 |
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| slonopotamus | double shift is ok too | 13:13 |
| spsneo | I want to contribute to Maemo as a dev. How to start? | 13:13 |
| slonopotamus | spsneo, install sdk and choose project :) | 13:14 |
| spsneo | slonopotamus: where to choose project from? | 13:14 |
| lardman | if anyone fancies hacking the menus of Qalculate away, feel free | 13:14 |
| ^kleanchap_ | Is maemo available for Slackware and Fedora? | 13:14 |
| lardman | I don't have time atm | 13:14 |
| spsneo | slonopotamus: I want to contribute to kernel internals | 13:14 |
| lardman | spsneo: what exactly? | 13:14 |
| ^kleanchap_ | Or is this a seperate operating system based on Linux? | 13:15 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: dunno | 13:15 |
| lardman | spsneo: devicisms? | 13:15 |
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| RST38h | lardmanlardman: | 13:15 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: maybe some company will be interested in licensing it or smth | 13:15 |
| slonopotamus | spsneo, ouch :) you have some specific feature in mind? | 13:15 |
| lardman | RST38h: ja? | 13:15 |
| jebba | ^kleanchap_: more or less it's own "operating system" or more accurately a distributino | 13:15 |
| spsneo | lardman: like memory management, process management, filesystems etc | 13:15 |
| RST38h | back | 13:15 |
| RST38h | lardman: yea, maemo5 package | 13:15 |
| lardman | ok | 13:15 |
| RST38h | lardman: will probably work on diablo as well, but no point to use it there | 13:15 |
| RST38h | lardman: check out the Changes | 13:15 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, or someone will give you n900 for free? :) | 13:16 |
| spsneo | no hints ? | 13:16 |
| lardman | spsneo: probably best to work with mainline then | 13:16 |
| lardman | unless it's device specific | 13:16 |
| lardman | in which case mer is a better bet as they will actually accept kernel patches | 13:16 |
| * RST38h wonders if the penguin-bitten are still using "unix fragmentation" as an argument for Linux | 13:16 | |
| lardman | the standard Nokia produced kernels likely won't | 13:17 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: N900 would not work with it | 13:17 |
| slonopotamus | spsneo, n8x0 really wants to be able to run modern kernels. | 13:17 |
| spsneo | slonopotamus: can u give me a link to get started | 13:17 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: only 38 keys on N900, and this design uses 64 | 13:17 |
| ^kleanchap_ | jebba: Can Meamo be installed on a Fedora system? | 13:18 |
| RST38h | lardman: I have uploaded the same packageto non-free, so you may want to up the minor release # | 13:18 |
| lardman | oh right | 13:18 |
| slonopotamus | spsneo, http://elinux.org/N800 | 13:18 |
| lardman | oops | 13:18 |
| RST38h | dunno how it works though | 13:18 |
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| lardman | just started another build | 13:19 |
| lardman | hang on a tick while that ends, then will alter | 13:19 |
| flux | sooo, how is one supposed to exit from OpenArena?-) | 13:19 |
| lcuk | 2 man enter, one man leave | 13:20 |
| flux | it seemed to me there were several men, but indeed, I didn't try that :) | 13:20 |
| lcuk | mornin folks and chaps and ladies and stuff \o | 13:20 |
| RST38h | Going out to buy a new doorbell. The old one fell victim to kids. | 13:20 |
| lardman | RST38h: hmm, autobuilder is still down | 13:21 |
| RST38h | ehlo, lcuk | 13:21 |
| RST38h | lardman: <facepalm> | 13:21 |
| lardman | RST38h: I'll push the package up for you tomorrow when I get back though if you want? | 13:21 |
| lcuk | booo RST38h | 13:21 |
| lcuk | whats up wiv autobuilder? totally offline? | 13:21 |
| lardman | garage maintenance break | 13:21 |
| lardman | right got to go and shower, otherwise the wife will kill me! | 13:22 |
| lcuk | cool | 13:22 |
| jebba | ^kleanchap_: the software development kit can be installed on fedora, but not really maemo itself. But i'm not sure i entirely understand the question | 13:23 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: The only mail I've seen about that is Conny's asking how long it'll last. Did I miss one? | 13:27 |
| lardman | no, I don't think so | 13:27 |
| lardman | I've no idea why it's down | 13:27 |
| lardman | perhaps to install some new servers? | 13:27 |
| Jaffa | I'd guess so. | 13:28 |
| RST38h | lardman: Sounds good | 13:28 |
| RST38h | lardman: Whoever wants to try it will be able to get the binary package from non-free, and whoever wants -free can probably wait. | 13:28 |
| * RST38h laughs demonically | 13:28 | |
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| lardman | RST38h: cool | 13:32 |
| lardman | RST38h: will be back tomorrow, Dad's birthday today so heading over to see the parents | 13:32 |
| jebba | just built burgerspace hhaha | 13:32 |
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| ale-x | hi! | 13:45 |
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| jebba | heya | 13:46 |
| lardman | cu tomorow | 13:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | does anybody know where to find the program 'less'? package name? | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe even which repository? | 13:54 |
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| redeeman | afaik its its own package | 13:57 |
| jebba | less, i have it from somewhere | 13:57 |
| jebba | like -testing or -devel | 13:57 |
| redeeman | you could always just use more until you get it :P | 13:57 |
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| jebba | most! | 13:57 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 13:58 |
| wazd | RST38h: moo :) | 13:58 |
| ale-x | DocScrutinizer: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free | 13:58 |
| ale-x | package name is less | 13:59 |
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| Macer | well. looks like my n810 has tsken the role of glorified mp3 player heh | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ale-x: thanks. strange thing is I see packages from fremantle/tools repository. No less package though :-S | 14:04 |
| ale-x | aha | 14:04 |
| ale-x | apt-cache policy less | 14:05 |
| ale-x | less: | 14:05 |
| ale-x | Installed: (none) | 14:05 |
| ale-x | Candidate: 418-1maemo2+0m5 | 14:05 |
| ale-x | Version table: | 14:05 |
| ale-x | 418-1maemo2+0m5 0 | 14:05 |
| ale-x | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free Packages | 14:05 |
| Macer | heh | 14:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: what icon you were asking me for VE? | 14:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: Anything that makes sense, as far as you care | 14:07 |
| RST38h | wazd: Usual technical specifics (.svg, simple, non photographic), due to the low pixel counts and physical size | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ale-x: is this http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Installation correct setup for the repository? | 14:08 |
| * RST38h seriously considers replacing the iconset in FBeader | 14:08 | |
| wazd | RST38h: oh, you want total replacement? | 14:09 |
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| jebba | DocScrutinizer51: deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free | 14:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: For FBeader? Of course, the current ones suck | 14:09 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, I still use mine.. the screen is better :) | 14:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, VE | 14:09 |
| ale-x | I guess so. DocScrutinizer | 14:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: aaaah | 14:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: damn) | 14:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: you need app icon :) | 14:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: VE only needs one icon :) | 14:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: I thought you need some icon for UI :) | 14:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: stupid me :P | 14:10 |
| RST38h | wazd: FBReader needs a bunch, but unless you feel like designing the whole bunch, I will simply takes the older iconset for it | 14:10 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: than the n900? | 14:10 |
| Macer | you mean bigger right ? ;) | 14:10 |
| ShadowJK | bigger, and I think the picture is better too | 14:10 |
| ShadowJK | n900 touchscreen sensitivity owns n810, of course :) | 14:11 |
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| Jaffa | Autobuilder seems to be back. | 14:11 |
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| RST38h | yahooo | 14:12 |
| wazd | RST38h: 48x48 as I recall? | 14:12 |
| Macer | i think my g1 has a better ts than my n810 | 14:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: 26x26, 40x40, 48x48, 64x64 | 14:12 |
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| RST38h | wazd: In other words, an svg | 14:12 |
| wazd | RST38h: ah, k | 14:12 |
| Macer | ah well. let me do some stuff | 14:12 |
| xorAxAx | Macer: ts? | 14:12 |
| * lcukn900 is at santas grotto! | 14:12 | |
| lcukn900 | i'm very excited! | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ale-x: jebba: I,m using appmanager and there definitely is no package less or Less or anything with name or description *less* | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil1 | DocScrutinizer: apt-get install less | 14:13 |
| ale-x | you could use a trerminal and apt-get install less | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil1 | many of the things are not in app-manager | 14:13 |
| ale-x | lol, SpeedEvil1 has evil speed *g* | 14:14 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: Command-line stuff can best be found using apt-get; since you're going to run it on the command-line anyway. | 14:14 |
| *** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil | 14:14 | |
| Jaffa | Also, less *used* to be in the tools repo; dunno if it's in extras now. | 14:14 |
| jebba | DocScrutinizer51: in appmanager many CLI apps dont show. You have to do something "special" to make apps show up there, i'm not sure what yet. | 14:14 |
| Dr_Cain | hmm, should grab the key too | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil1: yesyes. Always though appman is just a graphical frontend for apt | 14:15 |
| Dr_Cain | so that you dont have to deal with the authentication message | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba: oooh | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | o.o | 14:15 |
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| Jaffa | jebba: It's called "red-pill mode". And it's dangerous, and not worth it. | 14:15 |
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| Jaffa | HAM doesn't scale to enormous package lists; so you're better off with `apt-cache search' and `apt-get install'. | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It doesn't even really scale to -devel, -tools - * enabled really | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Scrolling through the list of all packages is quite ridiculous. | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | As is the lack of a sort by time added | 14:17 |
| pupnik | that's why there are sections? | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ok. point taken | 14:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~lart package manager | 14:20 |
| * infobot blasts package manager to oblivion with a kamehameha wave | 14:20 | |
| * DocScrutinizer51 hugs his shell | 14:20 | |
| Dr_Cain | heh | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | red pill mode pahh!! could have been mentioned somewhere next to repository and app download in wiki | 14:22 |
| Dr_Cain | yeah I'll probably comment them for now, and enable them when I need anything | 14:22 |
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| * Dr_Cain installs dosbox | 14:24 | |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: No, it really shouldn't be. It's a hack, it can cause users to install packages that then break things. If a user is going to use `less' at a commandline, it can be installed via apt-get. It's not like SSH or something | 14:24 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 hates apps telling lies to user. like appman and fileman | 14:24 | |
| derf | So don't use them. | 14:25 |
| derf | I use apt-get and bash. | 14:25 |
| xorAxAx | and install mc :) | 14:25 |
| RST38h | yea | 14:25 |
| RST38h | and remove MicroB | 14:25 |
| arachnist | mc sacks | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Jaffa: if the mere fact appman tells lies was mentioned somewhere I had a few less hair gone gray | 14:26 |
| xorAxAx | yeah, hail ztree! | 14:26 |
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| jebba | "dh_clean: Sorry, but 5 is the highest compatibility level supported by this debhelper." I downgraded debhelper Build-Depends: to version 5. How to unfoo this one? | 14:26 |
| xorAxAx | thats a question for #maemo-dev :) | 14:27 |
| RST38h | ZTree looks like CP/M PIP | 14:27 |
| xorAxAx | well, it looks like xtree gold | 14:28 |
| * jebba answers me: change debian/compat from 7 to 5 | 14:28 | |
| xorAxAx | i dont know PIP | 14:28 |
| RST38h | Of course you do not | 14:28 |
| xorAxAx | but xtree rocks the house | 14:28 |
| xorAxAx | well, i once had a cp/m machine in my house :) | 14:28 |
| xorAxAx | but i didnt have PIP | 14:28 |
| * RST38h facepalms looking at the latest tmo threads: "how to install a deb file" | 14:29 | |
| RST38h | comes with cp/m 2.2 | 14:29 |
| JosefAssad | not being all that familiar with apt; if dpkg -L says a package should have stuff in /usr/share/doc/appname/ but that directory isn't there, is that an apt-get option to skip over doc files or something similar? | 14:29 |
| jebba | JosefAssad: the installer is removing the stuff in /usr/share/doc/foo to save space. | 14:29 |
| jebba | maemo quirk | 14:29 |
| arachnist | RST38h: don't worry. next year it'll be worse | 14:30 |
| JosefAssad | jebba: aha, ok. Thanks! | 14:30 |
| JosefAssad | jebba: might prompt a rethink though since a lot of licenses go in there... | 14:30 |
| derf | There's even a /usr/share/doc/README | 14:30 |
| derf | Although the explanation is terse. | 14:30 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: It doesn't lie. It only shows packages in Section: user/* | 14:30 |
| FIQ | Arachnoid: you mean, when maemo will be nokia's flagship-OS? :p | 14:31 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: This is relatively well documented, but feel free to edit any appropriate wiki page | 14:31 |
| jebba | JosefAssad: yes, and the app manager doesn't list licenses either | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | derf: you bet bash will be next pkg to install. Andfor not using appmgr: every second howto says "appmanager nukes your edits in sources.list, so better use appmngr to setup the repositories" | 14:31 |
| derf | jebba: Just dump all your documentation in / like omweather does. | 14:31 |
| jebba | heh. didnt see that derf ;) | 14:32 |
| kirma | is there a easy way to create a desktop shortcut/application that would start the terminal and directly run something else than just the shell on it? (of course, I want to maintain normal terminal with shell too...) | 14:32 |
| jebba | keep it in /proc ? ;) | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Jaffa: err I don,t get you. section user/* ? | 14:32 |
| derf | Well, not "all" the documentation, I guess. Just the help file. | 14:32 |
| RST38h | oh, they are even giving each other wrong instructions on how to install debs | 14:32 |
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| RST38h | and they do it "to get the emulators that have been removed running" | 14:33 |
| derf | RST38h: Why is any of this surprising? | 14:33 |
| JosefAssad | Solution: desktop widgets with licenses. One widget for each app. | 14:33 |
| RST38h | derf: None of it is, but it seems to be like a perfectly dumb thread | 14:33 |
| moo__ | RST38h: why they made .deb so difficult to install in the first place? | 14:34 |
| moo__ | in ubuntu it is just click and play | 14:34 |
| RST38h | moo: to keep idiots from installing debs | 14:34 |
| RST38h | moo: In response, the Nature created better idiots | 14:34 |
| derf | She always does. | 14:34 |
| JosefAssad | But seriously though, speaking at least for GPL, isn't it a license violation to not distribute the license? | 14:34 |
| derf | JosefAssad: It's in the .deb file. | 14:34 |
| moo__ | RST38h: that's very healthy attidude towards people. I suggest you move to some far and remote place e.g. moon :) | 14:34 |
| JosefAssad | derf: is that legally sufficient? I don't actually know, just asking | 14:35 |
| RST38h | moo: I am already in a place that does not favor idiots. | 14:35 |
| derf | I'm not a lawyer. | 14:35 |
| JosefAssad | alright | 14:35 |
| RST38h | moo: No warning labels, no FDA, etc. | 14:35 |
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| wazd | RST38h: even no "warning, low ceiling" sign? :( | 14:37 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Ever seen that one? I have not. | 14:37 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: If you look at a package, say, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/hermes/0.2.2 - you'll see that it has a "Section". If it starts `user/', Application Manager will show it to the user and categorise it according to the bit following (there are a defined set, anything else ends up in 'Other'). | 14:38 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, but I'm reaching that ceilings with my head from time to time :D | 14:38 |
| RST38h | wazd: see, it makes you smarter =) | 14:38 |
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| RST38h | (more careful, at least :)) | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Jaffa: aaah many thanks :-) | 14:38 |
| wazd | RST38h: I don't think so :D :D | 14:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: How a hit with concrete will make me smarter I wonder? :) | 14:39 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I think situation architect is an idiot actually :) | 14:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: cause it's him who made stairs for freaking hobbits | 14:41 |
| RST38h | wazd: It will weed out all the dumb people =) | 14:41 |
| RST38h | wazd: What is the building? You are not talking about the MSU main dorm by any chance? | 14:41 |
| wazd | RST38h: mostly underground passes | 14:41 |
| RST38h | Oh those | 14:42 |
| RST38h | I am sure there is a GOST for those =) | 14:42 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I have to low my head too much to just enter some of them :) | 14:42 |
| * ShadowJK wishes he had a real camera | 14:42 | |
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| RST38h | wazd: people were shorter in the 50s. =) | 14:43 |
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| RST38h | Ah, cool, Google made a special iPhone Latitude app | 14:45 |
| RST38h | webapp, even, works with Maemo | 14:45 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Yup. lardman, zaheerm and I have been using it to good effect for the last week | 14:48 |
| lcukn900 | wazd thanks for your grass contribution :D | 14:48 |
| jebba | Jaffa: so to make a package available in HAM, i just change "games" to "user/games" done, voila? | 14:48 |
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| wazd | lcukn900: this thread is up for a day and no artist asked if he could help | 14:56 |
| wazd | lcukn900: they are all too busy looking for someone to help I guess :D | 14:57 |
| pupnik | what art is needed? | 14:57 |
| wazd | pupnik: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36698 | 14:57 |
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| VDVsx | grrr garage is down :( :( | 14:58 |
| pupnik | screw that. write the game first using boxes | 14:58 |
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| wazd | pupnik: it's done already :) | 14:59 |
| wazd | pupnik: relax :D | 14:59 |
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| pupnik | i have a game called ' | 15:00 |
| pupnik | Sven' | 15:00 |
| pupnik | about sheep | 15:00 |
| pupnik | holy ... brb | 15:01 |
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| VDVsx | pupnik, ehehe | 15:01 |
| VDVsx | pupnik, it's a shame that only runs on windows, otherwise would be a good maemo port ;) | 15:02 |
| pupnik | i am looking for publisher/author email | 15:02 |
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| jebba | to answer myself again re: HAM, yes. :) | 15:03 |
| jebba | I think you add "XB-Maemo-Display-Name: BurgerSpace" to debian/control to make it appear in the applications list once installed. Now to figure out XB-Maemo-Icon-26: .... | 15:04 |
| VDVsx | jebba, that for the app manager icon | 15:05 |
| jebba | si | 15:05 |
| VDVsx | jebba, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing | 15:06 |
| jebba | i see how o make one | 15:06 |
| jebba | ya. | 15:06 |
| jebba | VDVsx: this has a good explaination too: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging thx btw :) | 15:06 |
| VDVsx | jebba, that for diablo ^ | 15:06 |
| VDVsx | fremantle uses 48*48 icons in the app manager | 15:07 |
| flux | funny, my n900 lost its wlan connectivity, although it thought it was connected (reboot resolved it) | 15:07 |
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| jebba | VDVsx: ah, mejor | 15:09 |
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| arachnist | why is liqflow so addictive? | 15:09 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | if by addictive you mean boring, arachnist, then I don't know! | 15:10 |
| glass_ | arachnist: maybe it's your meds | 15:11 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Anyway, it doesn't work... I poured water into the headphone socket as instructed and just ended up with a blank screen! | 15:11 |
| flux | has someone tried using a (nokia) bt-hf with n900? is mine just broken down, or does the sound quality bad enough to be judged buggy? | 15:11 |
| flux | hm, does -> is | 15:11 |
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| jeanjean | flux, mu bh-905 works nicely | 15:13 |
| jebba | VDVsx: the last two lines contain this of the uu output. Where do I cut? | 15:13 |
| jebba | 3Ge9AgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== | 15:13 |
| jebba | ==== | 15:13 |
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| VDVsx | jebba, remove all == | 15:13 |
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| VDVsx | jebba, be careful with the "heading" spaces in each lines, those are required | 15:14 |
| flux | jeanjean, ok, so perhaps it's time to upgrade :) | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: I used a Sony-BT-HS and worked grea | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | t | 15:14 |
| jebba | VDVsx: not quite sure what you mean by heading. Here's my icon: http://pastebin.ca/1712097 I ran this to make it: uuencode -m src/images/burgerspace.png src/imas/burgerspace.png > /tmp/burgerspace.png.en | 15:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: for decent stereo audio you need A2DP pairing. SCO will give you abyssmal mono noise | 15:16 |
| jebba | ah! a space before each line i see now | 15:16 |
| VDVsx | jebba, http://pastebin.ca/1712100 | 15:17 |
| VDVsx | jebba, yes | 15:17 |
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| jebba | VDVsx: cool thx. package coming up :) | 15:18 |
| lcukn900 | god damned hard to click links in xchat | 15:18 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, any suggestions of one that would let plug in my own headphones, but would have a builtin microphone? | 15:18 |
| flux | I suppose I could as well use it for music listening then, if the quality is good enough | 15:18 |
| lcukn900 | vdvsx how are you this mornin | 15:19 |
| VDVsx | lcukn900, fine thanks :) | 15:20 |
| VDVsx | lcukn900, hope you're well too ::D | 15:21 |
| lcukn900 | how well would the x screensavers work on n900 i have the shoal 3d aquarium on my machine | 15:21 |
| lcukn900 | and want it on n900 | 15:21 |
| lcukn900 | im gr8 i think | 15:21 |
| lcukn900 | just took jake to see santa | 15:21 |
| VDVsx | hehe | 15:21 |
| yumaokao | exit | 15:21 |
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| VDVsx | lcukn900, I never saw a screesaver in the n900, I guess | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: sony HBH-DS220 | 15:22 |
| lcukn900 | heh well i know its a battery killer | 15:22 |
| jebba | my 5 year old son asked yesterday if i would give him (in spanish) the "camera fone computer". Even he knows its not just a phone ;) | 15:22 |
| lcukn900 | but for in home use with a profile "run when charging" it might be cool | 15:22 |
| pupnik | awesome | 15:23 |
| pupnik | jebba, forward to nokia marketing ;) | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | lcukn900: I want one too | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | lcukn900: I want xlock -inroot flame in the background of the desktop | 15:23 |
| pupnik | mame + marble madness + accelerometer | 15:23 |
| pupnik | :) | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | lcukn900: It shouldn't be _that_ bad. | 15:23 |
| lcukn900 | loads of my liq* stuff would work as screensavers | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | lcukn900: as the desktop only shows some of the time, and it only shows for 30s unless the user touches it. | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcukn900: screensavers are saving exactly nothing. They *wase* CPU cycles and thus your battery | 15:24 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, thanks, woudln't have found it as my usual dealer doesn't carry them :) | 15:24 |
| lcukn900 | cool i guess the problem is the desktop ones are geared for full gl | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | waste even | 15:24 |
| lcukn900 | they look pretty tho and when charging are ok | 15:25 |
| lcukn900 | idle distractions | 15:25 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, any experience on how's the battery life when streaming music to it? | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | when charging yes | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | lcukn900: I suspect most of us know this. | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: I haven't managed to deplete the bat | 15:25 |
| florian | good morning | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I think it's quite some hours | 15:26 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, I was thinking the phone battery.. | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 15:26 |
| lcukn900 | heh that would be cool. designate percentage of battery for use with other stuff | 15:26 |
| jebba | "Sorry for the inconvenience. garage has a maintenance break." that's actually really good news :) | 15:26 |
| lcukn900 | once that percentage is gone phone drops back to being basic model | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, haven't done streaming of music to N900 operating from bat | 15:27 |
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| johnx | lcukn900, sounds like a general purpose policy daemon | 15:31 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, some amazon review says it can do 2 hours music streaming, which doesn't sound that high.. | 15:33 |
| lcuk | indeed johnx something of the sort that ccooke is looking to implement :) | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | the phone? | 15:33 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, the HBH-DS220 | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahh | 15:34 |
| flux | also apparently pairing it with both the phone and the laptop is going to be a drag | 15:34 |
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| johnx | lcuk, yup. I woke up thinking about it a couple hours ago | 15:34 |
| lcuk | wtf http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1234430/Mystery-spiral-blue-light-display-hovers-Norway.html | 15:35 |
| TomaszD | a ballistic rocket went out of control, spiralling while spewing fuel, nothing to see here, move along | 15:36 |
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| lcuk | looks kewl tho | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: I just checked manual. Says 8h approx. Pairing of BT-HSs with more than one source isn't a frequently found capability | 15:37 |
| yabo | TomaszD, I'm sure it rather was some sort of alien gravity technology stolen by russians to americans in the zone 51 ! | 15:37 |
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| TomaszD | of course | 15:37 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, 8h of music streaming over bt, or something else? | 15:37 |
| flux | because that'd be enough :) | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: 8h of listening aka using the bt-hs HBH-DS220 | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: that's what I would guess as well, as I for sure used it for >2h and bat indicator wasn't that much at low end | 15:39 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, ok, nice to know | 15:40 |
| flux | I've been wondering if it's more energy-efficient to stream via bt or via FM, though | 15:40 |
| flux | I would need to measure that some day :) | 15:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | flux: FM - by a wide margin | 15:41 |
| johnx | doesn't the bt chip have to be on to use the fm tuner? | 15:42 |
| SpeedEvil | FM is a low-power reciever only - it will use under 10mW or so. And it will presumably simply be connected to the speakers in some analog manner, meaning the CPU doesn't need to get involved at all | 15:42 |
| johnx | though it'd stay in low power mode I guess | 15:42 |
| flux | in that case a builtin FM receiver would be a nice thing to have in that | 15:42 |
| johnx | also, it's not connected to the speakers through analog | 15:42 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 15:42 |
| flux | it's funny btw how FM transmitter works without an external antenna, but receiving requires (?) it | 15:43 |
| pupnik | what range do you get with xmitter | 15:43 |
| Jaffa | jebba: Correct. | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: flux: are we talking N900 or headset now?? | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - sorry - I haven't properly woken up | 15:44 |
| SpeedEvil | I misread that as listening to audio via the n900 | 15:44 |
| flux | I was talking about the energy efficiency of streaming music out of N900 | 15:44 |
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| jebba | this is fine, no? "dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field `Xb-Maemo-Display-Name' in input data in package's section of control info file" | 15:46 |
| wazd | lcuk: that's russian's Bulava failed again :D | 15:46 |
| wazd | lcuk: nothing serious | 15:47 |
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| lcuk | looks good | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | flux: I'd guess there's hardly any noiticeable diff between sending audio via BT vs via FM-TX | 15:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | both short range low power RF | 15:49 |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders getting off arse, and measuring crap. | 15:49 | |
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| * SpeedEvil realises he's lost BT headphones. | 15:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and you need a lot of thewhole system up and active which will eat much more | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | any sort of streaming from compressed media is gonna need 'lots' of power | 15:50 |
| odin_ | DocScrutinizer, BT is digital tho ? FM-TX is analogue ? | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes exactly | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes odin_ | 15:51 |
| * SpeedEvil wants digital audio transmitter. | 15:51 | |
| SpeedEvil | but that' way more complex | 15:51 |
| yabo | cat my_music.wav > /dev/fm | 15:53 |
| yabo | :) | 15:53 |
| thp | TomaszD: pong | 15:53 |
| * odin_ holds nose at thp | 15:53 | |
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| SpeedEvil | having said that - uncompressed audio will only be better if the DAC has a really huge buffer | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | and I don't think it does - so you're going to be waking several times a second - even neglecting pulseaudio | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ouch pa | 15:55 |
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| GAN900 | Ahaha | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't understand why nobody - that I can see - has come up with a leetle DAC with ~1M or so of memory, that you can wake up, jam audio into at the full rate you can, and go to sleep again | 15:56 |
| GAN900 | Pandora delayed again | 15:56 |
| TomaszD | thp, got my email? | 15:56 |
| johnx | GAN900, yeah. thanks for diplomacy | 15:56 |
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| cehteh | SpeedEvil: dont do this things DMA? | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: DMA isn't the point | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: dunno of 34$x companion chip | 15:57 |
| thp | TomaszD: yep. i'm in bug-fixing mode today, but let's see if i can add panucci to transifex ;) | 15:57 |
| cehteh | do the n900 audio apps use the dsp or the cpu? | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: DMA means that the system has to be awake to DMA | 15:57 |
| FIQ | Pandora pwns at been delayed | 15:57 |
| TomaszD | thp, that'd be cool :) | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: you sure it doesn't? | 15:57 |
| TomaszD | thp, and also the plural forms | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I mean wake for ~1s, jam 10s of audio into a buffer, and power down 99% of the system, keeping only the DAC alive | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: no - I need to read more crap. | 15:58 |
| FIQ | At least, there's a "status page" @ openpandora showing the progress | 15:58 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: well if you have to keep the main memory awake for dma or some buffer in the dac it wont be much of a change except for a lot more complexity and cost i assume | 15:58 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yes, there is. | 15:58 |
| cehteh | note that you need an extra memory controler for this 1mb buffer | 15:58 |
| cehteh | well maybe a good idea, but pricy | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: as for the main RAM to be alive, you need the SoC memory controller to be alive and ... I was assuming internal to the DAC/audio chip. | 15:59 |
| Flandry | woohoo my N900 should be delivered before Christmas | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Flandry: Woo! | 15:59 |
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| SinofEnvy | sup dawgs | 15:59 |
| * Flandry tiptoes back out of a deep conversation on DMA | 16:00 | |
| cehteh | Flandry: mine too .. before chrismas 2010 :) | 16:00 |
| SinofEnvy | I installed openssh client+server on my n900, now I want to SSH/SCP into it but it says access denied :( what user should I log in as? I thought "user" but... apparently not | 16:00 |
| Flandry | :/ | 16:00 |
| thp | TomaszD: i'll keep the plural forms for later, i guess. want to push out a release "really soon now" | 16:00 |
| odin_ | woof woof .... more like a farmyard everyday! | 16:00 |
| FIQ | heh, just saw that on nokia's official page | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: you probably also could do DMA while CPU is completely asleep | 16:00 |
| flux | sinofenvy, when you installed the server, it asked for a new root password. so, login as root. | 16:00 |
| TomaszD | thp, really soon = ? | 16:01 |
| cehteh | yes you can do dma while the cpu is asleep | 16:01 |
| SinofEnvy | ah okay flux, cheers | 16:01 |
| flux | sinofenvy, I suppose you could set a password to the user 'user' and login as user also | 16:01 |
| cehteh | isnt that the point of dma? :) | 16:01 |
| thp | TomaszD: today, tomorrow.. hopefully :) | 16:01 |
| TomaszD | thp, ok | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: CPU and memory controller are largely one though. | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: If you can turn the CPU off, stick memory in self-refresh, the savings are quite high. | 16:01 |
| cehteh | yes but the cpu is very good in putting single functional units to sleep | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: don't think so | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: especially compared to waking every .1s to compute another .1s of data. | 16:02 |
| cehteh | i dont know how well that works on arm but i suppose every single thing can be put to sleep down to ALU, single FPU pipelines, Caches ... | 16:03 |
| cehteh | next big thing would be to offload as much audio playing as possible to the dsp ... | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: keep in mind the TI special powersaving hw | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 16:03 |
| TomaszD | thp, btw, I've completed my translation and fixed many issues spotted on the desktop version, also fixed some things for maemo, so it's good to go from my point of view :) | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I've been feeling really horrid this couple of weeks - so haven';t been doing the digging I'd wanted to. Been in bed most of the day | 16:03 |
| flux | btw, another energy-efficiency thing I've been wondering about: which is more efficient, streaming 64kbps AAC+ or 128kbps MP3? | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | feeling a bit better today though | 16:04 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: well such buffering made me once think about if it is possible for the network stack too | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yes. | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: it,s working automatically on a very finegrained subsystem basis | 16:04 |
| TomaszD | thp, having panucci in transifex would be great, also you need the bugtracker field | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: but you need app/kernel support | 16:04 |
| cehteh | certainly | 16:04 |
| flux | streaming off the net over 3G (or wlan), that is | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I was wondering about a _hyper_ hacky thing - something like for example nice level 19 only got scheduled once every 30s, nice level 18 every 10. | 16:05 |
| GAN900 | johnx, see camkeyd yet? | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: which would tend to bunch wifi. you for example nice xchat down to 19 on display going away, and it gets a slice of CPU every 60s | 16:05 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: thats partially possible ... nice 19 gets automatically the SCHED_BATCH scheduling class | 16:05 |
| SinofEnvy | so... can I access the files of the "mass storage mode" over SCP as well? | 16:06 |
| cehteh | well i would rather do that in a irc proxy | 16:06 |
| johnx | GAN900, installed, loving it. I wish two presses sent me to applications rather than (nothing)||(camera) | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yes - that's another good option | 16:06 |
| cehteh | cork alot of messages and batch them out | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I need to finish off my hacks around a web differential proxy, and get something working | 16:06 |
| cehteh | with variable delays, if the user is active then maybe every 250ms otherwise every 2000ms | 16:06 |
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| flux | gan900, my installation opened both the camera and the process view, but it was from a few days back.. has it been improved? | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: ebay.com/auction2 - if you've loaded ebay.com/auction1 in the (250M of cached data) past, it sends not the page, but a diff of auction2 against auction1 | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: it seems to work quite well in some basic sums I did - but I need to do a proper actual working proxy | 16:07 |
| flux | sinofenvy, I haven't tried it [mass storage mode], but that sounds unlikely.. | 16:08 |
| flux | unless perhaps in read only mode | 16:08 |
| flux | (but even then) | 16:08 |
| SinofEnvy | hmm yeah okay | 16:08 |
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| SinofEnvy | I didn't think it'd be possible | 16:08 |
| SinofEnvy | but I had a little hope XP | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: both the proxy, and the remote proxy on a fast network share a cache context. | 16:08 |
| TomaszD | thp, with panucci, when something finishes playing, is there a way to start it up again? I couldn't find a way | 16:09 |
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| thp | TomaszD: no, except for selecting the file again | 16:10 |
| TomaszD | thp, and... this is good design? :) | 16:10 |
| thp | no. feel free to send patches ;) | 16:11 |
| TomaszD | heh | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | this nice19 idea sounds quite odd to me. AIUI a program that's on IO-wait or in another way sleeping won't get any cpu cycle. Not even scheduler itself should be running until some hw or timer IRQ awakes cpu. So absolutely no need to suspend an anyway sleeping task with nice 19 for 30 sec | 16:14 |
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| GAN900 | flux, don't press it all the way down. | 16:17 |
| TomaszD | thp, I could try some concepting for panucci though, would you be interested in some? | 16:17 |
| GAN900 | flux, use the autofocus step. | 16:18 |
| flux | gan900, oh :) | 16:18 |
| flux | gan900, perhaps I should give it another spin then :) | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | any task no in sleep 99.99% of the time is either doing some work that mustn't be delayed by 30sec suspend. or it's fubar | 16:18 |
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| GAN900 | johnx, not so far, would be nice but just this so far is awesome. | 16:20 |
| GAN900 | Hoping to get fullscreen on proximity. | 16:20 |
| johnx | ugh. do not want | 16:20 |
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| TomaszD | thp, I think I have something that would really work well | 16:21 |
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| saltsa_ | noo, is there any fix for the rootfs size -problem? | 16:21 |
| saltsa_ | it seems that it's going to full very easily and I guess it will broke lots of things then... | 16:22 |
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| * evo just uploaded his 13GB music library to his N900 | 16:29 | |
| evo | looks like it doesn't like some of the covers, *sigh* | 16:29 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: however - the point of this isn't directly to save CPU. It's to save activity which is high cost to initiate. Be that spinning up disks, sending a packet over 3G, ... | 16:29 |
| yuizy | evo: so you've bought all that, huh? | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: you'll want to use a sleep 30 inside app | 16:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: in principle, yes. | 16:31 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: this is a hack to avoid doing that for many apps. | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wont fly | 16:32 |
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| evo | yuizy: are you jealous or just trolling? | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: In what way do you mean won't fly? It seems to actually work - with the stupid test of stopping and restarting the process. I agree in its outlined form it would never get upstream approval. | 16:33 |
| yuizy | just kidding :p | 16:33 |
| evo | yuizy: ok, sorry then | 16:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: it was more as a proof of concept test than anything else. | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I don't see any proof in stopping a task for 30sec and then claim it's actually not running. | 16:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | that's quite self evident | 16:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | but as mentioned before there are not tasks that use lots of resources and same time may be stopped for prolonged periods of time | 16:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Not lots of resources. Occasional packets of network activity through expensive to activate interfaces. | 16:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I don,t see any of those heavy activation overhead IO | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | on N900 | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | 3G | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so wha's wrong with 3G? | 16:40 |
| SpeedEvil | When I attempted to measure it, I got a figure indicating that the cost to send one teeny packet is _way_ disproportionate to its size. | 16:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to check properly though | 16:41 |
| johnx | do you let the data interface stay up all the time? | 16:41 |
| guaqua | waking up the radio is expensive | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you think you find a task the sends an occasional packet' and in the meantime some magic is powering down the modem? | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: yes - this is a hack, rather than any logical attempt to avoid waking it in the right way | 16:42 |
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| RST38h | A'ok. I have added the fullscreen icon and the old icons to FBReader | 16:45 |
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| ShadowJK | There is a library for coordinating with other apps when to send packets | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | Once you wake up the 3g modem by sending/receiving packets, you might as well go full blast for 10 seconds or something | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | btw, xchat is quite effective at preventing the CPU from ever reaching C4 sleep state | 16:47 |
| GAN900 | johnx, well, that's why you make it configurable. ;) | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: how do you tell? | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: is there powertop? | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | yes there's powertop | 16:47 |
| derf | 10 seconds is an eternity in networking. | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | where? | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | might've been tools repo? | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: duh. xchat behaves really nice here | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | argh - just when I've powered down my n900 :) | 16:48 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, in powertop too? | 16:48 |
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| ShadowJK | it still does like a day on wlan anyway.. | 16:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | E: Couldn't find package powertop | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I have tools, extras-devel enabled | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | thoughts? | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: which value/dimension is the assumed overhead in "starting" umts xfer? time? cpu usage? current consumption? | 16:50 |
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| ShadowJK | how do i tell wherefrom i got it | 16:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: (a day) that's my point | 16:50 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I measured - preliminarily with an improper setup - a not inconsiderable amount of current for a few seconds around sending a packet. | 16:51 |
| ShadowJK | i think radio must stay transmitting something like 3-5 secs after last packet.. depends on network too | 16:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: that,s quite normal. sending packet means TX | 16:52 |
| TomaszD | thp, tell me what you think, this is just landscape for now http://imgur.com/Cwd2y.jpg | 16:52 |
| ShadowJK | xchat on 3g had similar battery life as shoutcast on 3g :) | 16:52 |
| guaqua | ShadowJK: :D | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: I don't see how you spot a *overhead* though | 16:52 |
| Jaffa | Yay! Pretty: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints/December_09#Activity_log | 16:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: Interested in doing the new icons for FBReader, btw? | 16:52 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, compare mWh per byte in the xchar case and in the shoutcast case, consider the difference as "overhead" | 16:53 |
| xorAxAx | i want my n900 *grr* | 16:53 |
| JosefAssad | what icons does fbreader need? Just the shortcut? | 16:54 |
| xorAxAx | cehteh: any news from your dealer? | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: that's a rather arbitrary equation | 16:54 |
| wazd | RST38h: yes, but not now :) | 16:54 |
| ShadowJK | sure is | 16:54 |
| wazd | RST38h: long list of current projects :) | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: GPRS has to use/transmit one complete timeslot. No matter if it,s filled or not | 16:55 |
| ShadowJK | yeah, but the timeslots are tiny? | 16:56 |
| lcuk | whats the packet size for gprs? | 16:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: depends on what you consider tiny | 16:56 |
| ShadowJK | less than 100kbyte ;) | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 16:57 |
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| ShadowJK | probably less than 10k? | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's more like MTA | 16:57 |
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| ShadowJK | mtu? | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | depending on what u use: gprs or umts or even hspa | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mtu of course | 16:58 |
| Macer | blah | 16:58 |
| ShadowJK | I usually switch it to gprs/edge only when I'm at work with no charger access :) | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Macer: better knowledge? please join in | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | otherwise irc drains the battery in 4 hours on umts/hspa | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | k, noice time for a test... | 17:00 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: connect a DMM | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | 16.00 local time | 17:00 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: observe current | 17:00 |
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| lcuk | i wonder if you could setup a buffered ircd to send over everything from your chans every 30s or 1min | 17:00 |
| lcuk | rather than dribbling | 17:00 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: but I'm trying to setup something that will actually measure | 17:00 |
| lcuk | send it in defined bursts | 17:00 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, modified bnc | 17:01 |
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| lcuk | tho i dont notice irc draining that badly | 17:01 |
| ShadowJK | depends alot on activity | 17:01 |
| lcuk | its irc! | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | yeah but say 30 chans | 17:02 |
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| lcuk | speaking of which, o2 internet died before | 17:02 |
| JosefAssad | RST38h: what icons does fbreader need? Just the shortcut? | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | it's fine on wlan anyways :) | 17:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | Argh. | 17:03 |
| * SpeedEvil has lost his bl-5j | 17:03 | |
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| lcuk | thats not good | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | meh - I can use the spare - I need to discahrge anyway | 17:04 |
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| cehteh | xorAxAx: no | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so let's see what it's actually like with xchat over UMTS | 17:05 |
| thp | TomaszD: thanks :) looks good. btw, the strings in gpodder should be frozen now for the release in case you want to translate the remaining ones | 17:05 |
| RST38h | Josef: No, the whole toolbar, two lists (files and book) and the app icon | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bat at 100, 16:00 local time | 17:06 |
| RST38h | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/12/500x_google-billboard_googlephone.jpg | 17:06 |
| ShadowJK | i wish nep was available for n900. atleast on s60 it tells you about 3g network timers | 17:06 |
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| RST38h | ORLY? | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | how would I prevent an auto fallback to wifi? | 17:07 |
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| TomaszD | thp, I think it's 100% translated atm | 17:07 |
| TomaszD | :) | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | is that enough to select GPRS from the connections applet? | 17:07 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, no | 17:08 |
| ShadowJK | settings - internet - untick prefer wifi - save | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aah tnx | 17:09 |
| ShadowJK | do you have 2g 2.5g 3g 3.5g reception? | 17:10 |
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| * RST38h moos at ShadowJK and TomaszD | 17:10 | |
| TomaszD | oh noes | 17:11 |
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| ShadowJK | I saw cows today. Real cows. A guy called asking for help with this computer saying it's slow. Turns out the computer was the brain of his farmhouse. It controlled cowmilking and cowfeeding robots :-) | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmmm 3G now. Should be 3.5 | 17:13 |
| ShadowJK | that's normal | 17:13 |
| ShadowJK | It upgrades to 3.5g when there's activity. Sometimes. | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 17:14 |
| * SpeedEvil fails to find the battery door interlock switch. | 17:14 | |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone got a clue? | 17:14 |
| ShadowJK | there isn't one | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so this obviously isn't enough activity | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Mine wouldn't start with the battery door off | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | or maybe I'm misremembering | 17:15 |
| ShadowJK | Oh, taht | 17:15 |
| ShadowJK | I thought that was magnetic? | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | oh no it actually *is* :-D | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or another one of those weird IR reflecttive | 17:16 |
| ShadowJK | could be electric too I suppose :) | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | actually magnetic makes sense. reed under camera | 17:17 |
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| ShadowJK | Oh yeah, it has to sense the camera door too :) | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's a IR reflex sensor | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | watch the hlf white half black stripe on door | 17:18 |
| cehteh | maybe all this internal magnets are the reason that it doesnt have a internal compass | 17:19 |
| cehteh | anyone tried if the n900 sticks on a fridge door? :) | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | doesnt | 17:20 |
| cehteh | :) | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there,s a small tiny magnet to hod the stand | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it,s umder the cam. middle of stand bed | 17:21 |
| tigert | SpeedEvil: you need to hold the powerbutton a while to start it | 17:21 |
| cehteh | the keyboard switch is also magnetic | 17:21 |
| tigert | SpeedEvil: but the back cover switch indeed is magnetic | 17:21 |
| TomaszD | wow, bookmarks in panucci are broken | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | is it? | 17:21 |
| tigert | could use the same magnet as the stand door | 17:21 |
| cehteh | yes | 17:22 |
| lcuk | hey tigert \o | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | tigert: thats what I talked about ;-) | 17:22 |
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| tigert | I think it does | 17:23 |
| RST38h | All right, new version of FBReader uploaded with the full-screen button in MicroB style | 17:23 |
| tigert | I'd do that and save an extra magnet if I'd to design something like this :) | 17:23 |
| * RST38h had to make a few changes to qwerty's patch, to make it more C++, but it was good otherwise =) | 17:23 | |
| yabo | Anyone has a good slipcover for the n900 ? | 17:24 |
| cehteh | as soon my device is there i plan to build a hardcase | 17:25 |
| lcuk | i saw an n900 disassembly video | 17:25 |
| lcuk | in it, one of hte first things they removed was a plastic plate/block element | 17:25 |
| lcuk | which didnt appear to have a use | 17:25 |
| lcuk | iwonder if that space could be reporposed | 17:25 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm. It seems to partially boot. | 17:25 |
| SpeedEvil | but I suspect I need more peak current - the impedence of my measurement thingy was probably too high | 17:26 |
| cehteh | lcuk: well maybe the use of that element wasnt just clear to them | 17:26 |
| lcuk | of course | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | maybe it just warped alot on the highspeed camera drop test, and they added that widget for extra stability | 17:26 |
| lcuk | but it looked like a spacer | 17:26 |
| lcuk | rather than a useful element | 17:26 |
| tigert | lcuk: those things could be structural | 17:26 |
| lcuk | indeed | 17:26 |
| lcuk | replace the structure with some silicon | 17:26 |
| tigert | it might be some stuff that takes impact on fall etc | 17:27 |
| tigert | those things are pretty crazy design | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 17:27 |
| lcuk | yeah | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | And not always obvious. | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | 'omg - it breaks -here- when it's dropped 1/10th of the time | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | might be accoustic element | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | 'jam some rubber in there, see if it helps | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or antenna | 17:28 |
| lcuk | flip device over, take back cover off, left hand side | 17:28 |
| tigert | its like car or aircraft design | 17:28 |
| tigert | you take out some bit | 17:28 |
| tigert | and the structural strength can be very dramatically different | 17:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | tigert: which you don't know until you crash it, and your feet fall off. | 17:29 |
| tigert | yeah | 17:29 |
| tigert | or the wings fold in the air :P | 17:29 |
| lcuk | its also equally plausible its just padding | 17:30 |
| tigert | given the amount of punishment the nokia phones can take without breaking... | 17:30 |
| lcuk | without being hw engineers for the platform we dont know | 17:30 |
| tigert | lcuk: that too yeah | 17:30 |
| tigert | its impossible to say without knowing the details | 17:30 |
| lcuk | if it did turn out to be a spacer, it could allow the compas module to be internally fitted | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | FSCKING POP3 setup popup | 17:31 |
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| ShadowJK | They didn't think the F-15 could fly with one wing, then one of them lost a wing, and the pilot had too big an ego to let a missing wing stop him, and landed it instead of bailing out | 17:31 |
| johnx | *(&$%ing POP3 | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's a really *annoying* part of "i'm your app and I'm so smart" | 17:31 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | I'm waiting for claws.. | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | I hope it comes | 17:32 |
| tigert | ShadowJK: actually I think he didnt see the whole amount of damage until when on the ground | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | tigert, yeah that's true | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | probably if he had seen that he only had one wing he wouldn't have believed he could fly ;) | 17:33 |
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| johnx | and we all know what happens in that case :) | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: pictures!!!! | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | video! | 17:33 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_EXtBEaBbs | 17:34 |
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| johnx | yup. that's about one less wing than they usually have | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: Of course - the real win militarily comes if you can convince the pilots they don't actually need planes to fly at mach 1. | 17:40 |
| tigert | :) | 17:40 |
| tigert | SpeedEvil: finns ;) | 17:41 |
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| * tigert looks up an url | 17:41 | |
| SpeedEvil | (and yes, I know about the sr71 bailout) | 17:41 |
| tigert | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HMdioj6kng | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | ☃ | 17:41 |
| tigert | no | 17:41 |
| tigert | this is a finn having small model plane jet engine boots | 17:41 |
| tigert | and a wingsuit | 17:42 |
| tigert | ;) | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: I did the numbers for that when I first heard of wingsuits. | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: it's quite practical | 17:42 |
| tigert | yeah | 17:42 |
| ShadowJK | jetpacks exist, dude :) | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: (before it was tried). (for low levels of practical) | 17:42 |
| tigert | the guy apparently was the first to try that and could maintain level flight | 17:42 |
| tigert | until he ran out of kerosene | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a design for a heli/hoverboard | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ~60Kg, 80cm*80cm, ~3Km altitude celing, stand-on board. | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | it must be nearly impossible to maintain balance with jetboots.. | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | you're not maintaining balance | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | you're flying with the thrust of the boots augmenting the flight | 17:43 |
| mavhk | jetpacks use more fuel per second than a 747 | 17:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | specific fuel consumption sucks | 17:44 |
| lcuk | i liked the water powered jetpack thingy | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ITWM H2O2 | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | H2O2 isn't really water. | 17:44 |
| tigert | lcuk: yeah that looked fun | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | damn that video is incredible | 17:44 |
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| tigert | Visa is at the local parachute club | 17:44 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0snTqLQLpBA | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - that's somewhat cheating. | 17:45 |
| wazd | h2o2 is a chemichal nonsense :D | 17:45 |
| wazd | cal* | 17:46 |
| tigert | SpeedEvil: cheating that looks incredibly fun | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 17:46 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, it gives you something jetpacks dont | 17:46 |
| lcuk | and has the wow factor | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the ability to fight fires near wateR? | 17:46 |
| lcuk | the ability to fly for literally hours and always be over safe ground if you lose power ;) | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - the above hoverboard idea is $60000 or so, and only flys ~5 min or so. | 17:47 |
| lcuk | i like the idea of ski gliding too | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Wingsuit + luge is clearly the next big thing | 17:47 |
| TomaszD | thp, portrait mode concept http://imgur.com/zxnOO.jpg | 17:48 |
| tigert | TomaszD: good thinking | 17:48 |
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| TomaszD | tigert, any thoughts on http://i.imgur.com/Cwd2y.jpg ? | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | guys, that video for sure had more impact while downloading and decoding/displaying, than those 45min of IRC over UMTS | 17:50 |
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| wazd | TomaszD: controls on top? | 17:51 |
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| TomaszD | wazd, nah, it works well with the built-in media player like this, because you have your keyboard open most of the time, so it kind of makes sense | 17:51 |
| wazd | TomaszD: I mean in portrait mode | 17:52 |
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| TomaszD | wazd, yes, did you read the rationale? | 17:52 |
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| TomaszD | or do you honestly use the n900 in portrait mode using two hands? | 17:52 |
| tigert | TomaszD: dont have time to look deeply into that, but looks ok at a quick glance | 17:53 |
| wazd | TomaszD: I dont have n900 | 17:53 |
| johnx | hmm, I think you end up covering part of artist/song/album when pressing previous/next | 17:53 |
| wazd | TomaszD: I'd rather make play/pause button and cover art same big rectangle | 17:54 |
| wazd | TomaszD: and other stuff on the bottom | 17:54 |
| TomaszD | wazd, would that make any sense usability-wise? | 17:54 |
| TomaszD | or would just look good | 17:54 |
| wazd | TomaszD: sure, cause in 90% of cases you need only play/pause button :) | 17:54 |
| TomaszD | johnx, yes I'm thinking about it | 17:55 |
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| TomaszD | wazd, I'm sure you can come up with a concept we can look at, right now I can't visualize what you are saying, that's why paper concepts are useful | 17:55 |
| johnx | also, be reaching across the whole device from one side to the other, I think you're more likely to hit something accidentally | 17:56 |
| TomaszD | johnx, give me a concept without this issue | 17:56 |
| TomaszD | I don't think it's possible unless you keep all the controls on one side | 17:56 |
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| lcuk | voice activated!!!! | 17:56 |
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| lcuk | "computer, earl grey tea, hot" | 17:57 |
| johnx | TomaszD, if you keep the most important buttons on the bottom row you reach more "upwards" with your thumb | 17:57 |
| wazd | nurse! :D | 17:57 |
| johnx | I don't disagree about keeping the less used controls higher up | 17:57 |
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| lcuk | i wonder whether skinnable media player would be useful | 17:58 |
| lcuk | to allow people to supply layouts | 17:58 |
| lcuk | which work for them - like old winamp used to have | 17:58 |
| johnx | QML? | 17:58 |
| TomaszD | I'm holding the n900 right now in portrait mode with the old panucci UI and the buttons on the top in the concept are exactly where my thumb naturally sits | 17:58 |
| lcuk | dunno, but the ui controls can technically be moved around with ease | 17:58 |
| johnx | old winamp skins were just pictures. you're thinking new winamp :P | 17:59 |
| lcuk | i dont use my 900 in portrait mode yet - the biggest limiting factor for me is lack of a dock | 17:59 |
| ShadowJK | damn this youtube, now I'm staring at 3dmasters | 17:59 |
| lcuk | my old pda used to have a neat little dock - i wonder if a replacement backcover could be done to allow it to rest in a dock and be charged | 17:59 |
| lcuk | like the wiimote replacement battery pack things use | 17:59 |
| TomaszD | droid has a nice dock, but it's landscape | 18:00 |
| johnx | hmmm, charge the battery directly? | 18:00 |
| johnx | dunno | 18:00 |
| lcuk | http://wiispot.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/joytechcharger.jpg | 18:01 |
| lcuk | not necessarily johnx | 18:01 |
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| lcuk | but that sort of principle to allow device to just be dropped in dock | 18:01 |
| lcuk | instead of fiddling with usb | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | is it safe to edit etc/hostname? | 18:01 |
| johnx | I think so :) | 18:01 |
| johnx | I did it | 18:01 |
| TomaszD | but the microusb plug goes at the top of the device, not the bottom | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :-) | 18:01 |
| kalikiana | DocScrutinizer51, in the worst case you're offline and you can still fix it | 18:01 |
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| lcuk | TomaszD, hence dock | 18:02 |
| TomaszD | so the dock would have to be really ugly and cumbersome | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | odd | 18:02 |
| johnx | lcuk, but that's the way the wiimote charger thing works. I don't know how you'd get around it with the N900 | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | my 'hosts' is 17 bytes of NUL | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'll throw the exploded N900 at you kalikiana ;-P | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | err hostname | 18:02 |
| lcuk | TomaszD, isnt there internal usb pads physically wired to the same point as the external | 18:02 |
| lcuk | so you could do it all from inside a backcover | 18:03 |
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| SinofEnvy | is there any button or something for the keyboard backlight? it seems to randomly go off sometimes and.. stuff... | 18:03 |
| johnx | that'd be some pretty invasive surgery, lcuk | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | /etc/mce.conf | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: THAT'S odd indeed | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | or something | 18:03 |
| lcuk | johnx, not surgery | 18:03 |
| TomaszD | lcuk, go ahead while I still have my n900 in working condition | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | -:>sin | 18:03 |
| lcuk | im just thinking, i like docks | 18:03 |
| lcuk | and if more and more is going portrait its something users will start to want | 18:04 |
| lcuk | its ugly atm to not have a way to keep it rotated | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | SinofEnvy: /etc/mce/mce.conf | 18:04 |
| johnx | well, you could dock charging and AV | 18:04 |
| TomaszD | not in portrait mode, it doesn't make sense to cover one of the speakers lcuk | 18:04 |
| kalikiana | DocScrutinizer51, I'll take it, reflash it and sell it for lots of money :-P | 18:04 |
| TomaszD | if anything, it's going to be a landscape dock | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: sure it does - in a proper dock | 18:04 |
| johnx | which makes sense to me, and leave transfers over wifi for the most part (also makes sense) | 18:04 |
| lcuk | same principle then | 18:04 |
| lcuk | i dock already in landscape | 18:05 |
| lcuk | but i still dislike the usb | 18:05 |
| TomaszD | SpeedEvil, you mean in something that would also have speakers built-in? | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: yeah | 18:05 |
| johnx | I just want mine for charging+AVout | 18:05 |
| TomaszD | this is getting too complicated and too costly :) | 18:05 |
| lcuk | nice idea johnx | 18:05 |
| lcuk | it also gets over the covered speaker thing | 18:05 |
| lcuk | cos you can have proper hifi speakers | 18:05 |
| lcuk | this is just a single plugin | 18:06 |
| TomaszD | johnx, charging and avout are on different sides of the device, there's a design/engineering task for you guys if you want a dock with those features | 18:06 |
| SinofEnvy | SpeedEvil: Can't open /etc/mce/mce.conf: No such file or directory | 18:06 |
| SinofEnvy | :O | 18:06 |
| johnx | TomaszD, ah, right :) | 18:06 |
| lcuk | replacement back cover and touch contacts | 18:06 |
| johnx | bummer | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | SinofEnvy: ini | 18:07 |
| lcuk | craves1 needs to get active :D | 18:07 |
| wazd | TomaszD: do you need seekbar? | 18:07 |
| TomaszD | and it would be really really ugly having to put it in and out of the dock cradle | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bah, minox type cradle | 18:07 |
| ShadowJK | SinofEnvy, I use ctrl to turn it back on | 18:08 |
| TomaszD | wazd, seekbar is very useful for audiobooks, but we can get rid of it in portrait mode | 18:08 |
| johnx | also, the connectors might not be designed to support much flex/weight | 18:08 |
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| SinofEnvy | ShadowJK. Hmm. Well, I'd think that -any button- would turn it back on after going off because it's "inactive", but it randomly stops even during typing | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | john: the connector for the USB is a bitch to dock. You basically cannoy do it right without a seperate insertion mechanism that puts it in after you slam it in the dock | 18:08 |
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| TomaszD | wazd, I wanted to make it as large as possible in portrait mode so it's actually useful, but I'm thinking about it again... I don't think it makes much sense | 18:09 |
| johnx | yeah. hard enough to get the charger plugged in | 18:09 |
| lcuk | well the wiimote has NO default charging capacity so one was make.. | 18:09 |
| lcuk | made | 18:09 |
| johnx | lcuk, which makes it easier | 18:09 |
| johnx | the wiimote doesn't think about different charging states, etc | 18:09 |
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| lcuk | of course but i mean the charging points | 18:10 |
| ShadowJK | SinofEnvy, my n810 does that :) | 18:10 |
| johnx | yeah. that's exactly what I mean | 18:10 |
| lcuk | if indeed the internal usb pads are electrically connected | 18:10 |
| TomaszD | wazd, it's optional, but it might still be useful for very quick one-handed searching | 18:10 |
| lcuk | it couldbe used | 18:10 |
| ShadowJK | sometimes you can blame it on the light sensor thinking there's enough light... but not always | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: what I said. slide crade (like minox camera) that inserts both jacks when you close it, and same time nicely fixates device with some brackets | 18:10 |
| johnx | which internal usb pads? actually visible with just the back cover off? | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder if someones assuming those are USB | 18:11 |
| lcuk | under the battery actually | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: there are four groups of contacts under the battery. | 18:11 |
| lcuk | yeah SpeedEvil i am | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: in groups of 7,7,2,4 IIRC | 18:11 |
| johnx | oh | 18:11 |
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| ShadowJK | some of them are serial I bet | 18:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: compare schematics of N810 | 18:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | seems they have D+- of USB on pads. also some other weird stuff | 18:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: think fab process | 18:15 |
| SpeedEvil | jtag/power/USB wouldn't be unlikely | 18:15 |
| * johnx gets some breakfast | 18:15 | |
| ShadowJK | the "funny shit" to run that rf calibration stuff | 18:15 |
| * SpeedEvil gets some dinner. | 18:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 18:15 |
| SpeedEvil | JTAG to load first stage bootloader, then USB to flash most firmware | 18:16 |
| johnx | would also make sense to provide everything necessary to do a "cold flash" | 18:16 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 gets some kick in the ass by himself to start some shopping etc | 18:16 | |
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| johnx | so that if they have to do a last-minute firmware update before shipping they just take the back off, set it in the testing rig and press go | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: I guess 1st stage BL is mask rom. like on wikireader | 18:17 |
| Mece | hello maemoites | 18:17 |
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| johnx | sooo, who wants to be first to try supplying some voltage to those pads and see if the N900 turns on? :D | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I'd prefer to suggest using a DVM | 18:18 |
| johnx | somehow, your way sounds less fun :P | 18:18 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: of course - it'll be inside the SoC - which is somewhat irrelevant. | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hehehrrrrrr | 18:19 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: first 'user' programmable bootloader. | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm. | 18:19 |
| johnx | alright, really out of here. have fun :) | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn. server closed port | 18:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | orwell.freenode.net freaky? | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | wow | 18:25 |
| t_s_o | ok, who tripped on the ethernet? | 18:26 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 18:26 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders a chat protocol without splits. | 18:26 | |
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| lcuk2 | SpeedEvil, its ok, but you need connected servers for load balancing | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | 172512 * Your host is farmer.freenode.net | 18:27 |
| lcuk2 | and once you are there, splits will occur | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | better than orwell | 18:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: you're assuming that there are not multiple connected servers. | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: imagine - forex - usenet-like routing. | 18:28 |
| lcuk2 | well irc on a single server doesnt have netsplits | 18:28 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | Splits are fun, they make life exciting | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: multiple multiply connected servers rather | 18:28 |
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| lcuk2 | SpeedEvil, throwing more iron at the problem will nto solve it, it will just make splits more frustrating | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | actually I seen other orwells quiting minutes before I got kicked with "host closed port" | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | so no real split | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: not throwing more iron. | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: altering the protocol so it's 'flood fill' - not point-point. | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this was *no* split | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's been a flaw *inside* orwell | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Where split is a generic term for a server oops. | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | k then | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | still any other floodfill prot won't help | 18:31 |
| lcuk2 | speedevil it will still occur if 100 people are connected to one point and that goes off | 18:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk2: sure. | 18:31 |
| lcuk2 | it wont actually help much | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk2: Assuming the mutliple connection isn't extended out to the leaf nodes/users. | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeek | 18:31 |
| lcuk2 | adding complexity | 18:32 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, you always trade complexity for ohter stuff. | 18:32 |
| lcuk2 | it would simply be better to hide your join/leaves and buffer messages until the person joins ;) | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I got redundant connection here ;-P | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | you may copy for your RFC | 18:32 |
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| lcuk2 | anyway beer time | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and even with good ole IRC prot | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | time for some RL action | 18:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | wave | 18:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw: 90min... 71% | 18:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | decay rate ~1.5% / 5min | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | with allways-on backlight at low brightness | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | and IRC over 3G ;-D | 18:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd say that's decent | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I was getting _much_ worse performance than that. | 18:37 |
| wazd | omg | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | As in ~50%/4 hours, with backlight off, and xchat on. And it wasn't that xchat was taking lots of CPU | 18:38 |
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| wazd | I just saw WoW ad on TV | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | and net over 3g | 18:38 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I've been getting good battery life on Wifi | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Great over wifi. | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | ~80%/245h | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | 24h | 18:38 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Which is kinda handy, because 90% of the time I'm in range of a wifi connection | 18:38 |
| melmoth | anybody here is fluent with gdb in c++ ? I do not find how to set a break point for a c++ method (classname::methodname is not recognized) | 18:38 |
| frals | wazd: theyve been doing WoW ad's on telly here in .se for ages :) | 18:38 |
| yabo | wazd, and you want a WoW client on maemo ? :) | 18:38 |
| wazd | frals: I saw the one with Mr. T | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hh 24 | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not 245 | 18:39 |
| wazd | yabo: never played it actually :D | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | XD | 18:39 |
| frals | hehe, last year they had one with ozzy osbourne :) | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: many inbound packet spamming? | 18:40 |
| yabo | wazd, :) | 18:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: no inbound packets I saw over the period I checked other than as expected from IRC | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: and yes, I need to properly check that. | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: how'd you tell? | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: tcpdump | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | firewall log on N900? | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aah | 18:41 |
| SinofEnvy | can I put my N900 in "flash torch" mode through any stock app? I went through all the camera and flash settings and all but can't find anything :/ | 18:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 ponders about NAK sending | 18:42 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | wow | 18:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SinofEnvy: nope | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SinofEnvy: not yet. seems SpeedEvil is working on a PoV app | 18:43 |
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| killefiz | voice quality using my parrot car hands-free seems to be much better with the n900 than with the e51 and the iphone - can anyone think of a reason? Built in noise reduction? | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 18:44 |
| SinofEnvy | PoV? | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | killefiz: is this bluetooth? | 18:45 |
| killefiz | SpeedEvil: yes | 18:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | SinofEnvy: no | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | killefiz: bluetooth audio has eleven million different options. | 18:45 |
| SinofEnvy | I meant it as in, "what do you mean PoV" | 18:45 |
| SinofEnvy | but okay | 18:45 |
| SinofEnvy | but okay thanks, so right now the torch mode is hardware supported but no app does anything with it? | 18:45 |
| TomaszD | better quality SBC | 18:45 |
| wazd | TomaszD: http://i013.radikal.ru/0912/80/2d35c782d995.png | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | killefiz: it's possible that the n900 supports - or has as default - a better codec | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | SinofEnvy: yes | 18:46 |
| wazd | TomaszD: You can even add some more functions if you'd like to | 18:46 |
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| TomaszD | wazd, looks good, not very intuitive though, is it | 18:47 |
| killefiz | SpeedEvil: that would be an explanation - whatever it is - I like it ;) | 18:48 |
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| TomaszD | I like those big buttons, although I'm not sure about their function, this being an audiobook player | 18:48 |
| TomaszD | you don't often switch between tracks I guess | 18:49 |
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| TomaszD | I don't know really | 18:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'd want a nice way to bookmark your current place very obviously | 18:50 |
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| TomaszD | yeah, and my concept has that scenario covered | 18:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | and I'd lose the track next/track last in favour of a drag gesture | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | as in drag 'back' like the browser | 18:51 |
| SpeedEvil | also volume via spirals | 18:51 |
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| TomaszD | also, a pony | 18:52 |
| TomaszD | :) | 18:52 |
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| killefiz | what is the default lock code on the n900? I tried 0000 and 1234 but neither works. | 18:52 |
| TomaszD | 12345? | 18:53 |
| killefiz | TomaszD: that works - thanks | 18:53 |
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| killefiz | how is one supposed to know that? | 18:53 |
| TomaszD | :) | 18:53 |
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| lcuk2 | theres a lock code? | 18:53 |
| TomaszD | the manual should have it somewhere | 18:53 |
| wazd | TomaszD: http://s44.radikal.ru/i105/0912/79/372c7a3bcfd1.png | 18:53 |
| killefiz | TomaszD: I just skimmed through the manual (the german one that was in the box) and it doesn't mention anything related to the lock code. | 18:54 |
| TomaszD | hmm | 18:54 |
| killefiz | lcuk2: if you push the power button while the device is powered on there is a menu option "secure device" | 18:55 |
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| lcuk2 | that would be why ive never needed a lock code | 18:55 |
| lcuk2 | it asks for a code to lock the device tho | 18:55 |
| lcuk2 | no default? | 18:55 |
| lcuk2 | if i tap outside the dialog it goes away | 18:56 |
| lcuk2 | ie still unlocked | 18:56 |
| lcuk2 | until i enter something | 18:56 |
| killefiz | lcuk2: the default lock code is 12345 as I have just learned | 18:56 |
| lcuk2 | to tell it what to lock | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - I found no obvious way of setting the lock code | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | which is bad | 18:56 |
| lcuk2 | i cannot lock it without entering my own code tho | 18:56 |
| killefiz | SpeedEvil: you can set it under settings | 18:56 |
| killefiz | settings -> Device Lock | 18:57 |
| TomaszD | wazd, any rationale behind this specific design (as a whole and in details)? | 18:57 |
| SpeedEvil | killefiz: 'enter current lock code' | 18:57 |
| killefiz | SpeedEvil: 12345 | 18:57 |
| SpeedEvil | killefiz: and where is that documented? | 18:57 |
| killefiz | SpeedEvil: #maemo in freenode ;) | 18:57 |
| TomaszD | I must have found that somewhere | 18:57 |
| TomaszD | how would I know otherwise | 18:58 |
| TomaszD | I don't think I was guessing | 18:58 |
| TomaszD | maybe the n810 had the same code | 18:58 |
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| killefiz | googling for n900 and lock code also works - according to a thread on talk.maemo.org 12345 is nokia default | 18:58 |
| TomaszD | :) | 18:58 |
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| * lcuk2 still cannot use lock without first entering my own ode | 18:58 | |
| killefiz | argh - it wants a 5 digit code | 18:58 |
| lcuk2 | code | 18:59 |
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| RST38h | moo | 18:59 |
| woglinde | moo | 18:59 |
| lcukn900 | hey rst | 18:59 |
| RST38h | how are things? | 18:59 |
| wazd | RST38h: reheya | 18:59 |
| woglinde | damn why the hell I must have a r8167 with firmware needed | 19:00 |
| woglinde | hi wazd and lcuk | 19:00 |
| wazd | TomaszD: well, it's handy :) | 19:00 |
| lcukn900 | hiya woglinde | 19:00 |
| wazd | woglinde: hey | 19:00 |
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| t_s_o | that garage job is taking its time... | 19:01 |
| woglinde | uh | 19:01 |
| woglinde | garage istn up already? | 19:01 |
| killefiz | wazd: are you one of the panucci developers? | 19:01 |
| wazd | killefiz: no | 19:01 |
| t_s_o | still just shows a single line of text to me | 19:01 |
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| * SpeedEvil adds https://bugs.maemo.org/post_bug.cgi | 19:03 | |
| SpeedEvil | err | 19:03 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6891 | 19:03 |
| povbot | Bug 6891: Device lock setup gives no way to set a lock code for the first time. | 19:03 |
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| nezb | can someone do me a very fast favor? If your N900 does NOT have ssh installed, give me the first line of /etc/passwd | 19:04 |
| w00t | I have ssh, else I would | 19:05 |
| woglinde | nezb?????? | 19:05 |
| woglinde | firstline is root | 19:05 |
| nezb | yes, woglinde? | 19:05 |
| woglinde | did you delete the entry? | 19:05 |
| nezb | there should be root: something :0:0:root/root:/bin/sh | 19:05 |
| nezb | I need the something part | 19:05 |
| woglinde | hm? | 19:06 |
| nezb | when you install ssh it changes the password on the root account | 19:06 |
| woglinde | take the one from your host | 19:06 |
| woglinde | nezb whats the problem? | 19:06 |
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| woglinde | sudo gainroot dont works anymore? | 19:06 |
| nezb | ...I need to disable the root acount | 19:06 |
| woglinde | yeah look at your hostsystem | 19:06 |
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| woglinde | root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash | 19:07 |
| nezb | my host system has a root account with password | 19:07 |
| nezb | thanks.. I needed the "x" | 19:07 |
| woglinde | whahaaaaa | 19:07 |
| woglinde | roots password should be in shadow | 19:07 |
| woglinde | not in passwd | 19:07 |
| nezb | N900 doesn't use shadow | 19:07 |
| woglinde | I consider your system not safe | 19:07 |
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| woglinde | your HOST | 19:07 |
| nezb | my host is running Debian :P | 19:07 |
| nezb | /etc/shadow- of course | 19:07 |
| woglinde | guess what I pasted | 19:08 |
| woglinde | or from | 19:08 |
| nezb | >_> | 19:08 |
| nezb | your host system..? | 19:08 |
| woglinde | wow | 19:08 |
| woglinde | you are smart | 19:08 |
| woglinde | *g* | 19:08 |
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| nezb | I don't have a machine around that I could have got that from | 19:09 |
| woglinde | aeh? | 19:09 |
| nezb | is it okay to change the password on the user account? | 19:10 |
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| woglinde | sure | 19:11 |
| woglinde | its your device | 19:11 |
| johnq | I tried to login to my N900's user account via ssh publickey, it does not work. Any idea? | 19:11 |
| nezb | well, I was worried some applications that expect it not to have a password might stop working | 19:11 |
| johnq | login to root using password works | 19:11 |
| nezb | johnq: that's my problem. you have to set a password to the user account | 19:12 |
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| woglinde | johnq hm configure sshd_config? | 19:12 |
| woglinde | maybee only root user is allowed | 19:12 |
| nezb | johnq: from root login, type passwd user | 19:12 |
| nezb | ssh won't do public key for an accoun with no password for some reason | 19:12 |
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| johnq | nezb: ah, thanks | 19:12 |
| nezb | johnq: you're welcome | 19:13 |
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| Scummer | ouch... phone crashed during a phone call and now it doesn't boot. | 19:13 |
| johnq | I would like to increase the security of my device, but I'm not really sure what is the way to go. | 19:13 |
| nezb | johnq: I changed the port ssh runs on | 19:13 |
| nezb | johnq: disabled root login for ssh, and also forced public key auth (no password auth) | 19:14 |
| nezb | Scummer: at all? | 19:14 |
| johnq | nezb: yeah, that's what I thought of | 19:14 |
| johnq | nezb: but how to you get root access on your device? | 19:14 |
| Scummer | nezb: well.. it does show the Nokia splash, one round of the balls and then it turns off | 19:14 |
| nezb | johnq: I think that's all you can do. the phone has no open ports except for ssh (when it is running, usually I leave it off to save battery) | 19:14 |
| nezb | johnq: sudo gainroot | 19:15 |
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| johnq | nezb: hm, do you need to type in the root password for that? | 19:15 |
| nezb | Scummer: that's not good :\ filesystem corruption maybe? | 19:15 |
| nezb | johnq: nope. you can do it from the user account | 19:16 |
| Scummer | nezb: i wonder... | 19:16 |
| nezb | Scummer: I know on the N800 you could be able to enter recovery mode and reflash | 19:16 |
| Scummer | nezb: the n900 should have it too | 19:17 |
| nezb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 19:17 |
| johnq | nezb: but then it seems quite insecure to me | 19:17 |
| nezb | johnq: read the link I pasted | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ok. 30 minutes with backlight off and idle. just gprs with IRC: 0..1%of bat drain | 19:18 |
| nezb | Scummer: it does, you need windows to run flasher-3.5.txt | 19:18 |
| nezb | *exe | 19:18 |
| Scummer | nezb: i'm using the os x flasher | 19:18 |
| nezb | Scummer: if you don't want to try to figure out what really happened, you can just do this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#N900_.28XP_SP3.29.2FVista_.28SP2.29.2FWindows_7 | 19:19 |
| Scummer | so i'm going to try it | 19:19 |
| nezb | Scummer: the OSX flasher kernel panicks on 10.6 | 19:19 |
| nezb | btw | 19:19 |
| johnq | nezb: I think it's insecure nevertheless. Have I missed something? | 19:19 |
| Scummer | shit | 19:19 |
| nezb | Scummer: 770Flasher does, at least, not sure about the command line version | 19:19 |
| Scummer | nezb: i have 10.6 :( | 19:19 |
| nezb | same. I experienced it firsthand a few days ago | 19:20 |
| johnq | nezb: anybody who gets user access to my device instantly gets root access | 19:20 |
| nezb | johnq: isn't that true for any device? | 19:20 |
| Scummer | during the flash ? | 19:20 |
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| nezb | Scummer: right at the end of it. it does something to the USB module in the Darwin kernel | 19:20 |
| johnq | nezb: of course not? | 19:20 |
| SpeedEvil | johnq: unless you disallow reflashing, that's always the case surely? | 19:20 |
| nezb | johnq: it's just a phone though | 19:20 |
| johnq | nezb: i'm not talking about physical access but network access | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: btw all above from hald readout which is amazingly NONsteppy this time | 19:20 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: odd | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: | 19:21 |
| johnq | nezb: or think of viruses | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I got lots of steps. | 19:21 |
| nezb | johnq: network access means they need a private key to login | 19:21 |
| johnq | nezb: why do you disallow root ssh access if it's the same as user access in the end? | 19:21 |
| nezb | sudo rainroot only works if you are already logged into the device | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | better lots than a few shuge ones | 19:21 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: maybe it gets better over cycles | 19:21 |
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| nezb | because bots will try to login as root usually. | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no idea, honestly | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | rainroot is cool | 19:22 |
| johnq | nezb: ok, I'll think about it | 19:22 |
| johnq | nezb: thanks for your help | 19:23 |
| nezb | johnq: you're welcome | 19:23 |
| zemm | root is definitely the account to be bruteforced, then comes list of some common firstnames (according to my ssh-fail-logs) | 19:26 |
| Scummer | nezb : hmm.. the phone restarted with hooking up the USB | 19:28 |
| nezb | weird | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: last 5 readings: 66 (5min) 66 (5min) 66 (5min, bl on) 61 (5min) 60 | 19:29 |
| Scummer | uahh... the battery was simply empty | 19:29 |
| yabo | zemm, though a root password shouldn't be bruteforceable | 19:30 |
| Arkenoi | how to reach nokia messaging tech support? | 19:30 |
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| thomastp | what is a preferred way of storing username/password info on maemo for gtk apps ? | 19:35 |
| woglinde | thomastp should be same as in other gtk-apps too | 19:36 |
| thomastp | woglinde: well, a lot use gnome-keyring, that's definitely not on maemo atm | 19:36 |
| thomastp | and I'd prefer to avoid packaging that for my needs | 19:36 |
| woglinde | gnome-keyring is a gnome app | 19:37 |
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| thomastp | yes, so does maemo offer anything similar to gnome-keyring ? | 19:38 |
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| OnJen | hey | 19:38 |
| OnJen | where can i find the data folder? | 19:38 |
| nezb | in the home directory, it is hidden (filename start with a dot) | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | /home/user/MyDocs? | 19:38 |
| woglinde | thomastp hm I dont know | 19:38 |
| nezb | you can find it doing ls -a ~ | 19:38 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | the n900 fscking sucks as a phone | 19:38 |
| JosefAssad | what would be the correct term for the menu which drops down when one clicks the title bar of an aplication? | 19:39 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | A call comes in, and it just goes "OHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT A CALL OMG CRASHCRASHFREEZEFREEZE" | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | JosefAssad: Either AppMenu or GtkMenu | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | JosefAssad: Depending on whether it's finger friendly or not | 19:39 |
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| JosefAssad | Jaffa: okie. Ah, great | 19:39 |
| OnJen | so i have to create, when there is no data folder? | 19:39 |
| Scummer | gadget : mine never did that | 19:40 |
| JosefAssad | Jaffa: there's one such in theremin, and it's finger friendly but clearly not the same as the builtins, so probably not hildonised was why I'm asking | 19:40 |
| JosefAssad | Jaffa: appmenu it is then | 19:40 |
| JosefAssad | Jaffa: thanks | 19:40 |
| nezb | /home/user/MyDocs/.documents | 19:40 |
| woglinde | supper | 19:40 |
| Arkenoi | Gadgetoid, never seen such behavior | 19:41 |
| Jaffa | JosefAssad: The builtins are all AppMenus, FWIW | 19:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | I get a SMS, with a number in, that I want to SMS to. I click the number, and it takes me to the phone app, with no visible way to SMS. | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Am I missing somethign/ | 19:41 |
| lcuk2 | when you are on the sms screen dont oyu just start typing to reply | 19:41 |
| Ceron^ | lcuk2: how to install liquidflow :\ | 19:41 |
| Ceron^ | tell me | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't want to reply to the SMS, I want to SMS to a number in the SMS. | 19:42 |
| nezb | tap and hold the number? | 19:42 |
| lcuk2 | goto extras-testing, find liqflow, install ? | 19:42 |
| SpeedEvil | nezb: ah - that works, thanks! | 19:42 |
| TomaszD | thp, you added strings 2 hours before the release? | 19:42 |
| JosefAssad | Jaffa: hm. OK, I just don't want to conuse people with the terms I use. The menu I'm looking at is finger friendly and drops down and all, but the width is the width of the labels not buttons fitting to the screen width. Still "app menu"? | 19:42 |
| Ceron^ | add extras-testing to repo on n900? | 19:42 |
| nezb | SpeedEvil: you're welcome. there's lots of hidden context menus like that in maemo | 19:42 |
| nezb | Ceron^ in app manager open the drop down menu on the top | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | nezb: actually - it seems not to | 19:43 |
| nezb | Ceron^ go to sources and uncheck disabled from extras | 19:43 |
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| nezb | SpeedEvil ? | 19:43 |
| lcuk2 | if you would like to test it yes. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/liqflow/0.1.1/ | 19:43 |
| Ceron^ | i got it enabled :P | 19:43 |
| lcuk2 | once you have tested it, please complete the survey (tick yes or no) :D | 19:43 |
| Ceron^ | oh its liqflow :D | 19:43 |
| johnq | is there a "best practice" to sync the n900 with evolution under linux? | 19:43 |
| nezb | what is liqflow anyway | 19:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | nezb: ah - I suspect it's slightly confused. I get an sms from 48004 - I want to SMS to 48004 - I diddn't realise that was the actual number I wanted to SMS - so it takes me back to the same 'conversation'. | 19:44 |
| Ceron^ | i dont got | 19:44 |
| Ceron^ | Extras-testing in my repo | 19:44 |
| Ceron^ | only got Extras :( | 19:44 |
| nezb | manually add it? | 19:44 |
| Ceron^ | i will! | 19:44 |
| nezb | SpeedEvil, can't you just reply then? | 19:45 |
| lcuk2 | Ceron^, note apps listed for testing are not complete and may conflict | 19:45 |
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| lcuk2 | beware and remove/disable it again after you have what you need | 19:45 |
| Ceron^ | lcuk2: should i delete all liqbase | 19:45 |
| Ceron^ | playground stuff | 19:45 |
| nezb | lcuk2 - can't you just pin it to a lower priority? | 19:45 |
| Ceron^ | before installing liqflow? | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | nezb: yes, I can, it was confusing me that I hadn't realised that the number it came from was the same one it was asking me to SMS | 19:45 |
| lcuk2 | nahh they dont conflict | 19:45 |
| lcuk2 | just upgrades it all | 19:45 |
| nezb | SpeedEvil oh gotcha | 19:45 |
| lcuk2 | nezb, probably | 19:45 |
| lcuk2 | but its not the default mechanism | 19:45 |
| * lcuk2 needs to push new updates for libliqbase this week too | 19:46 | |
| nezb | lcuk2, yeah. I get the feeling lots of people are going to mess stuff up :P | 19:46 |
| lcuk2 | wild wild west | 19:46 |
| lcuk2 | -testing is there for testing specific apps | 19:46 |
| lcuk2 | and for giving the developers the feedback they need | 19:47 |
| lcuk2 | without feedback improvements cannot be made | 19:47 |
| nezb | lcuk2: just saw your video of liqflow on youtube. that's pretty cool! | 19:47 |
| * SpeedEvil turns n900 up to 11, and places mic next to speaker. | 19:47 | |
| lcuk2 | indeed nezb :) | 19:48 |
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| lcuk2 | SpeedEvil, try this in the console | 19:48 |
| lcuk2 | gst-launch pulsesrc ! pulsesink | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 19:49 |
| nezb | what does that do? :P | 19:49 |
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| Ceron^ | installing liqflow! | 19:51 |
| Jaffa | JosefAssad: http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Window_Menu | 19:51 |
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| nezb | is it bad if /etc/passwd and /etc/passwd- are out of sync? I'm guessing yes... | 19:53 |
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| valdyn | nezb: why would it be bad? | 19:55 |
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| nezb | isn't passwd- a backup of passwd? | 19:56 |
| JosefAssad | Jaffa: thank you again | 19:56 |
| johnq | How do I install cython in the SDK to compile .py programs to arm binaries? There is a package named cython (or python2.5-cython) in extras-devel, but what is the correct line to add to /etc/apt/sources.list in the scratchbox? | 19:56 |
| JosefAssad | Does it make sense to have "is it properly hildonised" in the Extras-testing QA checklist? | 19:57 |
| JosefAssad | never mind me, it's encouraged but not a blocker. I RTFA'ed | 19:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | reading, wow | 19:59 |
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| Vratha | ah man | 20:02 |
| Vratha | i must say that sync'ing contacts between the n900 and OS X right now is a lot of painful work | 20:02 |
| Vratha | hope nokia does a good job with their iSync plugin | 20:02 |
| crashanddie_mbp | iSuck | 20:02 |
| nezb | you can sync with OSX!? | 20:02 |
| nezb | how? | 20:02 |
| hcarrega | Vratha salling media:) | 20:03 |
| timeless_mbp | using an Exchange Server + Entourage? :) | 20:03 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nezb: contacts -> gmail -> n900 | 20:03 |
| hcarrega | its free | 20:03 |
| Vratha | crashanddie_mbp: you may, yes, but i don't want to get to know you well enough to figure that out | 20:03 |
| hcarrega | or | 20:03 |
| valdyn | Vratha: try nuevasync.com ? | 20:03 |
| hcarrega | with addressbook | 20:03 |
| hcarrega | export | 20:03 |
| nezb | crashanddie_mbp, oh, that's what I do right now. I thought you meant over USB | 20:03 |
| hcarrega | and then send via bt to n900 | 20:03 |
| Vratha | hcarrega: yeah, i did. it's a lot of painful work | 20:03 |
| hcarrega | lol | 20:03 |
| hcarrega | but for now | 20:03 |
| fnordianslip | you can just export entire address book as a vcf and import it on device | 20:03 |
| hcarrega | :) | 20:03 |
| Vratha | especially when you have to add the country prefix for everything so you can do skype calling | 20:03 |
| Vratha | this is just something basic nokia should've had working in the first place | 20:04 |
| timeless_mbp | Vratha: um, what?! | 20:04 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I don't think some people realise it's not about syncing once -- but more about staying in sync | 20:04 |
| timeless_mbp | 80% of the market does not have a Mac | 20:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | to think that we shouldn't ship a product because we're missing support for that platform is absolutely nuts | 20:04 |
| valdyn | that country code thing works nowhere | 20:04 |
| nezb | well how do you sync it to Linux in that case... since I have a Linux and Mac OS X box | 20:04 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm speaking as a Nokian whose employer purchased a mac book pro | 20:05 |
| Vratha | timeless_mbp: so, last i checked, the rest of the market supports mac sync'ing out of the box. pretty sad nokia doesn't, right? | 20:05 |
| timeless_mbp | Vratha: last i checked Palm was busy losing a lawsuit in that area | 20:05 |
| hcarrega | maybe in future | 20:05 |
| timeless_mbp | all things considered, i'd rather my employer not spend its money losing lawsuits | 20:05 |
| hcarrega | try gmail | 20:05 |
| hcarrega | sync | 20:05 |
| Vratha | timeless_mbp: wow, your straw man argument holds no water | 20:05 |
| valdyn | crashanddie_mbp: nuevasync.com probably works ok for that | 20:05 |
| timeless_mbp | Vratha: go away. | 20:05 |
| valdyn | crashanddie_mbp: but i dont want to adverstise something i dont even really know... | 20:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Vratha: neither does yours | 20:06 |
| Vratha | i don't give gmail my contact info | 20:06 |
| Vratha | SpeedEvil: yeah, because saying that most of the market place is beating nokia in the area of sync'ing is really a straw man... | 20:06 |
| valdyn | timeless_mbp: why offend "customers" | 20:06 |
| Vratha | it's a statement of fact | 20:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | valdyn: i'm not paid to take offense from customers | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | if they want to complain, they should call nokia care | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia care is *paid* to take complaints | 20:06 |
| valdyn | timeless_mbp: oh, i didnt see you being offended | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | this is #maemo, where we work as a *community* to improve the maemo platform | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | we don't go around bashing companies | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | not apple, not microsoft, and not nokia | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | (nor palm for that matter) | 20:07 |
| Vratha | mmmm, actually, maemo is backed by nokia | 20:07 |
| Vratha | they released the n900 | 20:07 |
| valdyn | timeless_mbp: sure, agreed | 20:07 |
| nezb | lol at flamewar... | 20:07 |
| Vratha | the community doesn't have to do anything really | 20:07 |
| lpotter__ | nick ljp | 20:07 |
| *** lpotter__ is now known as ljp | 20:08 | |
| * timeless_mbp passes lpotter a slash (/) :) | 20:08 | |
| sp3000 | what do you say we make apple juice and fax it to each other | 20:08 |
| valdyn | or maybe, "this is not a nokia care channel" should be on the /topic ;) | 20:08 |
| crashanddie_mbp | bloody | 20:08 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | fanbois screaming "I want steve jobs to get cancer" simply because there's a legal battle between nokia and appl | 20:09 |
| crashanddie_mbp | +e | 20:09 |
| Vratha | fine, let's talk about something non-nokia related then. how about them contact books in maemo? imported my contacts via a large vcard, and rather than merging with existing contacts, i had to do that manually | 20:09 |
| nezb | If anyone here is like me, we all bought this phone knowing that it is an open platform that we can expand or modify to fit our needs. There is no need to argue... | 20:09 |
| Vratha | then, it decided to duplicate tons of info | 20:09 |
| Vratha | then, the contacts app locked up | 20:09 |
| valdyn | Vratha: theres no merge feature afaik. | 20:09 |
| lbt | Vratha: you had a lot of contacts in one vcf file? | 20:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | lbt: he was trying to import all of his contacts | 20:09 |
| * lbt too | 20:10 | |
| lbt | N900 | 20:10 |
| lbt | + 3110i | 20:10 |
| Vratha | in the contacts app, if you have a lot of contacts of the same name, you can manually merge the info, but it duplicates distinct data | 20:10 |
| lbt | doesn't mix :( | 20:10 |
| Vratha | lbt: yes, i did, from the mac address book | 20:10 |
| lbt | so I used gnokki or gnokii to get an ldif... | 20:10 |
| lbt | I just didn't realise vcf would hold multiple entries | 20:10 |
| thp | is there an ETA for garage coming back to life? | 20:11 |
| Vratha | lbt: me either, until i learned how to sync from mac to n900 | 20:11 |
| lbt | the pain for me is that I have 100+ vcf files .... and although N900 will export multiple contacts to multiple vcf | 20:11 |
| lbt | it imports 1 by 1 | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, Mac sync support for sony ericson phones seems to come from a third party: http://www.feisar.com/plugins.php | 20:11 |
| Vratha | lbt: yeah, so on your mac, if you export all your contacts into one file, you can import just that one file on your n900 to get all them in | 20:11 |
| * lbt is a linux guy.... Mac is way too closed | 20:11 | |
| lbt | :) | 20:12 |
| Vratha | lbt: ah, i thought you were saying you had a mac | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | Vratha: please read carefully | 20:12 |
| Vratha | but, that was kind of a trolling opinion | 20:12 |
| lbt | no, but I have the multiple contaxt import problem | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | it'll help you avoid annoying people | 20:12 |
| Vratha | timeless_mbp: he didn't say he didn't have a mac | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, so that means he must have one! | 20:12 |
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| Vratha | it doesn't mean he doesn't have one | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | your logic is impeccable | 20:12 |
| Vratha | timeless_mbp: actually, you're kind of annoying me | 20:13 |
| lbt | heh, anyways.... off to actually do something +ve | 20:13 |
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| lbt | cheers for the multiple contacts/vcf tip.... will look at that | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | duh | 20:13 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer-8: does your nick mean you look at Docs? | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | lbt: yes | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: yeah, we support multiple vcards | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | that's been the iriginal meaning | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, don't try sticking >50 fields into a single card | 20:14 |
| lbt | you involved in the docs team? | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | the contacts app will get annoyed | 20:14 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: *nod* ... ta | 20:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: whose docs do you poke? | 20:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | lbt: you jumped to a conclusion back there ^ :) | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | once been openmoko docs | 20:15 |
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| lbt | timeless_mbp: did I? sorry... what? | 20:15 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: the domain of DocScrutinizer 's scrutiny :) | 20:15 |
| lbt | heh - jumping would have been inviting w/o asking.... :) | 20:16 |
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| lbt | Of course he could have a medical fetish... | 20:16 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, the people i've talked to who have done a single vcard have used some perl or whatever to clean up their file before importing | 20:16 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer-8: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=422871 | 20:17 |
| lbt | just in case it appeals :) | 20:17 |
| suihkulokki | hmm... i didn't have trouble importing the vcard that supposedly holds all finnish telemarketers numbers... | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: 50 is per card, not cards per file | 20:17 |
| Vratha | before importing your vcard, use perl to fix it up so it has the country code in front of all the numbers, if you care about making skype calls | 20:18 |
| suihkulokki | it is one big vcard | 20:18 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: it's one big vcard container | 20:18 |
| lbt | I guess I have no time to talk to people at the moment.... so it's low on the list ;) | 20:18 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: actually, avoid 44, not 50 | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone have some time to kill? :) | 20:19 |
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| * lbt declines this time :) | 20:19 | |
| nezb | timeless: maybe | 20:19 |
| ifreq | time is irrevelant | 20:20 |
| kalikiana | You should take the time for a good kill | 20:20 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | Why, timeless_mbp? | 20:22 |
| Vratha | ifreq: that comment seems ironic coming from you, considering your handle | 20:23 |
| ifreq | *g* | 20:24 |
| nezb | wow, transferring a 58MB video file from N900 to my computer over Bluetooth is _slow_ | 20:25 |
| Corsac | bluetooth _is_ slow | 20:26 |
| nezb | 150kB/s! BLAZING FAST! | 20:26 |
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| TomaszD | that's actually really good for Bluetooth | 20:26 |
| slonopotamus | that's 1mbps. how much did you expect? | 20:26 |
| nezb | yeah... In the past I remember to be happy getting 20kB/s | 20:26 |
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| nezb | no it's 0.1mbps | 20:27 |
| slonopotamus | you said kilobytes | 20:27 |
| nezb | err 1megabit, 0.1mBps | 20:27 |
| nezb | my bad | 20:27 |
| slonopotamus | i said megabit | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | lbt: I see. Well I'm not quite much into development yet. But at least I can tell for me the most important part is to understand all the middleware and API stuff. E:G I have no idea what to enter into xchat cfg to make the vibrator bounce in a highlight even | 20:27 |
| nezb | yeah I misread you =) | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | t | 20:27 |
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| slonopotamus | so, just 8 mins | 20:29 |
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| nezb | yep. just finished. | 20:29 |
| nezb | hmm.. screencast file is unplayable.. | 20:30 |
| slonopotamus | you know, ppl used 14kilobites per second modems not so long time ago :) | 20:30 |
| nezb | yeah, but we didn't push 800x480 video though them either | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | err 14kb modems? sounds like plain CSD | 20:31 |
| cehteh | 14kbit? ... hey that was fast! .. somewhere i have a 300baud modem | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | OVER gSM | 20:32 |
| nezb | 300baud modem on an Apple //e | 20:32 |
| nezb | dual floppy drives! | 20:32 |
| slonopotamus | err, kilobits | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | actually I never seen a 300 modem. We called those acousitc couplers | 20:33 |
| slonopotamus | my first one connected @9600 :) | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | modems with a wire to plug to pots started at 1200 iirc | 20:33 |
| cehteh | maybe its 1.2k .. | 20:33 |
| nezb | the first modem I ever used was a 28.8... | 20:34 |
| cehteh | can be | 20:34 |
| derf | I have a 300/1200 baud modem. | 20:34 |
| cehteh | they can all fallback to 300 baud | 20:34 |
| derf | I can actually see the box for it from where I'm sitting. | 20:34 |
| cehteh | iirc the handshake is always made at 300 baud for compatibility reasons | 20:34 |
| cehteh | long ago :) | 20:35 |
| derf | cehteh: Yes, but I enjoy the fact that it's _marketed_ as "300/1200 baud". | 20:35 |
| nezb | check out this video of a 300baud coupler from 1964 being used on a modern computer | 20:35 |
| nezb | http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&oi=video_result&ct=res&cd=8&ved=0CB8QtwIwBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX9dpXHnJXaE&rct=j&q=300+baud+modem&ei=QeIjS7qdDM-vtgeJ9rzZBw&usg=AFQjCNGdz1e6qUpnzXFz6u3NFti14HVZVQ&sig2=yQ4DYl8ws9xSq-Zx9JgEdA | 20:35 |
| nezb | http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&oi=video_result&ct=res&cd=8&ved=0CB8QtwIwBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX9dpXHnJXaE&rct=j&q=300+baud+modem&ei=QeIjS7qdDM-vtgeJ9rzZBw&usg=AFQjCNGdz1e6qUpnzXFz6u3NFti14HVZVQ&sig2=yQ4DYl8ws9xSq-Zx9JgEdA | 20:35 |
| slonopotamus | :/ | 20:35 |
| nezb | wow, google has some horrible URLs.... | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah, wtf? | 20:35 |
| Arkenoi | fuck nokia messaging. what a stupid idea to have support request routed to "general" nokia support. they returned me a call, promised to fix something on their side and nothing still, no fucking ticket number | 20:35 |
| nezb | google users those urls to track what I click on, apparently | 20:36 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 20:36 |
| nezb | *uses :P | 20:36 |
| nezb | well, it's still a cool video | 20:36 |
| Arkenoi | the main difference of "consumer" vs "technical" support services is that "consumer" ones *NEVER* provide a tracking ticked and you *NEVER* know what happens there and if someone really works on it | 20:37 |
| lcuk2 | mmmmmm steak n chips | 20:37 |
| Arkenoi | s/ticked/ticket/ | 20:37 |
| infobot | Arkenoi meant: the main difference of "consumer" vs "technical" support services is that "consumer" ones *NEVER* provide a tracking ticket and you *NEVER* know what happens there and if someone really works on it | 20:37 |
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| Arkenoi | so i really hate it | 20:37 |
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| nezb | =( | 20:38 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: what was your problem? | 20:38 |
| nezb | http://theoatmeal.com/comics/customer_service - Arkenoi | 20:38 |
| timeless_mbp | (not that i can directly help, but i'm curious, and if it's interesting, i might find the other side and ask them to poll to see where it went) | 20:38 |
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| * RST38h does not understand something: it looks like the Fremantle toolbar in FBReader fits 30% fewer icons than the Diablo toolbar | 20:40 | |
| RST38h | What the hell? | 20:40 |
| lcuk2 | spacing? | 20:40 |
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| derf | The new button margins are huge. | 20:40 |
| nezb | I think the icons are bigger | 20:40 |
| Arkenoi | timeless, actually i have two - one is that i cannot set up a pop3 mailbox because stupid AI thinks that mail server should match domain name and simply refuses to register and second one even more annoying is that i have problem with outgoing email via google mailbox, two messages are there with permanent failure, one of those is to ContactCentre.Europe@nokia.com ;-) | 20:40 |
| RST38h | no, same sized icons | 20:40 |
| timeless_mbp | 'AI'? | 20:40 |
| RST38h | margins do seem to be bigger | 20:40 |
| derf | I was able to get rid of the interior margins. | 20:40 |
| Arkenoi | artifical intelligence | 20:41 |
| derf | But I couldn't get rid of the outside ones. | 20:41 |
| RST38h | when I put a spacer explicitely, I almost can't notice it | 20:41 |
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| derf | If you figure out how, let me know. | 20:41 |
| RST38h | Anyways, I had to sacrifice a few icons, folks | 20:41 |
| RST38h | Hope you will not mind | 20:41 |
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| Arkenoi | that's how i call all that smart ass programs who try to overthink the user | 20:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: wait a second | 20:41 |
| derf | RST38h: I didn't have that luxury. | 20:41 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: MS Office? | 20:41 |
| timeless_mbp | are you saying that there's a publicly listed email address that doesn't work? | 20:41 |
| jysky | hey, what's the thing with maemo talk. i can create new threads with my account, but can't reply anyone else's | 20:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: if that's the case, um, let's get that going somewhere | 20:41 |
| RST38h | derf: Well you can always do your own toolbar of course.. | 20:41 |
| derf | RST38h: It's not just the toolbar. | 20:42 |
| Arkenoi | that even, not who. i am starting to antropomorhize it ;-) | 20:42 |
| derf | _All_ of the buttons have larger margins. | 20:42 |
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| * RST38h curses those "finger oriented" UI designers | 20:42 | |
| RST38h | my fingers are not that large | 20:43 |
| derf | I mean, the only place it really mattered to me was the kanji radical lookup table. | 20:44 |
| derf | I can't tell Japanese to use fewer radicals. | 20:44 |
| RST38h | heh | 20:44 |
| lcuk2 | Arkenoi, whats the bug number for the problem you are encountering | 20:44 |
| derf | Much as I might like to sometimes. | 20:44 |
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| lcuk2 | i cannot work out exactly whats happening from your vague description here and like timeless would not like to just leave it hanging | 20:45 |
| Arkenoi | lcuk2, it is not n900-related so there is no bug number, it is service failure :-( | 20:45 |
| Arkenoi | they do not provide me bugzilla interface for Nokia Messaging | 20:45 |
| lcuk2 | who dont? | 20:45 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia doesn't use bugzilla much internally | 20:46 |
| timeless_mbp | Qt uses *something* | 20:46 |
| timeless_mbp | Maemo uses bugzilla | 20:46 |
| * SpeedEvil wants to submit bug on the stupidly rubbery charger cable. | 20:46 | |
| timeless_mbp | most of nokia uses a db you'd never want to touch | 20:46 |
| timeless_mbp | trust me, i looked, i'm scared | 20:46 |
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| Arkenoi | well, if they only had a trouble ticket system you'd probably have the description | 20:47 |
| Arkenoi | better one | 20:47 |
| Arkenoi | but they do not | 20:47 |
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| Arkenoi | i receive anonymous calls, anonymous emails and then i simply cannot find a person who called or a person who emailed me | 20:47 |
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| wazd | Arkenoi: heya' | 20:50 |
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| johnq | is it really true that the garage website is offline since thursday? | 20:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | people shouldn't do work on weekends :) | 20:54 |
| jysky | yeah | 20:55 |
| johnq | is there an alternative download location for esbox? | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | johnq: server move probably | 20:56 |
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| johnq | omg! | 20:58 |
| johnq | the python extension compiled! | 20:59 |
| johnq | the first thing that worked since wednesday! | 20:59 |
| melmoth | grumble...any idea where i can find the sources for libical ? | 20:59 |
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| RST38h | moo Stskeeps | 21:03 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | moo RST38h | 21:03 |
| RST38h | how are things? | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: master's thesis handin in 3 days, gues | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | s | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:04 |
| * w00t whips Stskeeps | 21:05 | |
| w00t | thesis faster! | 21:05 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes Gadgetoid_iMac | 21:05 | |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: <evil cackling> | 21:05 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Wait until you start on a PhD... | 21:05 |
| * Gadgetoid_iMac feels pokered | 21:05 | |
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| nezb | final exam grades are up for me, I just got an 87.5% =) | 21:05 |
| nezb | woo undergrads | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i'm making very sure noone would ever admit me for a phd programme. | 21:06 |
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| Stskeeps | at the moment i just want the degree :P | 21:07 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: defending masters thesis in computer modeling of the australian sheep breeding habits, as function of weather? | 21:08 |
| RST38h | Ok, one more last FBReader build, and I am done for today | 21:08 |
| nezb | ^ sounds interesting, I'd read that paper | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | Hope everyone will like the new default settings though... | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: close enough, rehabilitative exercise recognition via computer vision | 21:08 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Ah, that is kinda applied, as they come | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | i'm really into applied cs.. to an extent | 21:09 |
| RST38h | no shit, with all the embeded systems work you are doing... | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | electric sheep? what you're dreaming of? | 21:11 |
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| * Arkenoi reads livejournal comments on my mini-faq which mostly descibes google sync issues.. seems that it was really major fuckup for nokia to underestimate the importance of google sync before the product release.. people laugh on us | 21:13 | |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: *shrug* | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | hopefully someone will write glue | 21:14 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: that is different | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i think that eventually MfE will support google | 21:14 |
| nezb | i <3 google sync. would use it if it worked. hooray for open source | 21:14 |
| andre__ | well, I get enough bug reports of users that complain that MfE does not work properly with Google | 21:14 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: judging from comments, you are simply being mugged by a bunch of Android zealots | 21:14 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: And looks like the iPhone ones are starting to gather as well ;) | 21:15 |
| melmoth | talking about open source and sync thingy.. anybody know where i can find the source for libical that comes with the n900 ? | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | melmoth: mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ ? | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | if it's open, it should be there | 21:15 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Obviously, Android is supposed to sync perfectly with Google Calendar =) | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/libical/debian/changelog?force=1 | 21:16 |
| Arkenoi | actually google sync is *more* important than whe whole MfE thing for current n900 audience | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | seems like libical (1.43-99.3+0m5) | 21:16 |
| Arkenoi | s/whe/the/ | 21:16 |
| infobot | Arkenoi meant: actually google sync is *more* important than the whole MfE thing for current n900 audience | 21:16 |
| andre__ | melmoth, plus tarballs at http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/libi/libical/ | 21:16 |
| melmoth | ahh, tarball is better. | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: MfE should include contacts.. | 21:16 |
| ratMin | ok, 4.22.8-25-g633d is working for me (y) | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ratMin: what's that? | 21:17 |
| slonopotamus | ~ping | 21:17 |
| infobot | ~pong | 21:17 |
| ratMin | timeless_mbp: sry, wrong channel .. irssis is someteme litle hard to read | 21:18 |
| Arkenoi | timeless_mbp, and it simply cannot be done truly properly as using MfE adds activesync limitations to google ones. and there is major potential issue that we will lose some contat fields that cannot be synced properly | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: you want us to write yet another client | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | in 2 days | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | and test it thoroughly against 1 thousand google accounts | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | with all sorts of random contact sets? | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | sounds great | 21:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | what army do you have available that i can use for this task? | 21:19 |
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| Arkenoi | :-) nope, i just say it is the thing that should be given priority several months before release ;-) | 21:19 |
| Arkenoi | then maybe we already had it today | 21:19 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 21:19 | |
| jiajia | hello does anyone now using n900 nokia | 21:19 |
| jiajia | how is it | 21:19 |
| timeless_mbp | what feature would you have dropped? | 21:19 |
| nezb | it's great | 21:19 |
| timeless_mbp | MfE? | 21:19 |
| lcuk2 | mail for exchange | 21:20 |
| timeless_mbp | Camera support? | 21:20 |
| andre__ | yeah, definitely mail for exchange. | 21:20 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 21:20 |
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| kevloral | hi all | 21:20 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I like to suck boiled sweets | 21:20 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | s/boiled sweets/cock | 21:20 |
| Arkenoi | actually i guess dropping whole MfE in favor of Google sync may be better than vice versa ;-) | 21:20 |
| timeless_mbp | personally, i'd have dropped Nokia Messaging | 21:20 |
| Arkenoi | yes! | 21:20 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | It was worth a try... | 21:20 |
| timeless_mbp | but can you imagine management approving that? | 21:21 |
| Arkenoi | :-) | 21:21 |
| lcuk2 | mmm "nokia messaging" ? thats not the messaging ui i use every day | 21:21 |
| lcuk2 | for sms is it? | 21:21 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 21:21 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | timeless_mbp: just throw Maemo 5 away and release Android firmware | 21:21 |
| timeless_mbp | Gadgetoid_iMac: i'm pretty sure that puts me out of a job | 21:22 |
| lcuk2 | phew! thats a relief | 21:22 |
| ljp | right | 21:22 |
| Arkenoi | and they probably see google being direct competitor to ovi services | 21:22 |
| Arkenoi | btw | 21:22 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk2: http://email.nokia.com/account/home.action | 21:22 |
| andre__ | lcuk2: kind of a push service for email | 21:22 |
| nezb | you can run Android on N900 hardware? | 21:22 |
| jiajia | how to get this firefox for this n900 | 21:22 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: really? wow | 21:22 |
| Arkenoi | having ovi email and nokia messaging totally unrelated is just as insane | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: that's on the point | 21:22 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | timeless_mbp: Also, Maemo >>>>>> Android | 21:22 |
| timeless_mbp | what an incredible idea | 21:22 |
| lcuk2 | oh, like sms but bigger | 21:22 |
| nezb | I know you can run Android 1.5 on N800 but it is really slow... | 21:22 |
| jiajia | haha , have fun man when u get tired sleep well | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: nokia is moving. probably away from cheap phones and towards webservices/content provider | 21:23 |
| jiajia | thanks for advice | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, http://email.nokia.com/account/faq.action | 21:23 |
| Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, and there already is google. | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 21:23 |
| Arkenoi | it is better to make friends with it than to copy it poorly | 21:24 |
| jiajia | Arkenoi: would u tell me how to have this firefox for my nokia n900 | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't tell *me* | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | jiajia: do you have an n900? | 21:24 |
| jiajia | timeless_mbp: yep | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | jiajia: do you want Firefox Mobile (Fennec)? | 21:24 |
| Arkenoi | jiajia, you probably do not want. it lacks microb features. | 21:25 |
| jiajia | yeah sure | 21:25 |
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| jiajia | timeless_mbp: yeah sure | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I personally give a sh*t on ovi, as I do on google, or exchange | 21:25 |
| jiajia | Arkenoi: but i think that is much better than the one "web" | 21:25 |
| jiajia | timeless_mbp: how could i get it ,thanks alot | 21:26 |
| kevloral | jiajia: go to http://firefox.com/m on your n900. But I also prefer microb for now (at least until weave works, that is). | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | If I was a google fanboy I had got me an androidiot | 21:26 |
| timeless_mbp | kevloral: omigosh, the number of redirects i got there was amazing | 21:26 |
| RST38h | Fennec is slow like hell | 21:27 |
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| jiajia | kevloral:where can i get this microb | 21:27 |
| RST38h | And tends to hang the tablet as a whole, too | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | jiajia: he gave you the url | 21:27 |
| kevloral | jiajia: it is the browser that comes with the n900 by default. | 21:27 |
| Arkenoi | anyways, there is no direct profit on ovi services, just expenses. thinking that one will buy things in ovi store just because it is related to ovi mail or ovi sharing services is ridiculous. those are completely unrelated. so why support it and not to provide customers what they really want? | 21:27 |
| jiajia | haha nice thanks | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | oh oops | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, yeah, microb is the included browse | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | r | 21:27 |
| kevloral | RST38h: I agree. It is very resource hungry. | 21:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: so, asking why nokia business management does stuff is imo offtopic | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia has managed to earn money for various years and seems to be run by businessmen | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | they don't do things unless they see some way to make money from doing them | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | but asking/speculating on that isn't topical for this channel | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | and it puts nokia employees in an uncomfortable position | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/HardKernel-Odroid/ - and even before release, pandora is run out of the market? | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:31 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: lol. | 21:31 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Yeah but if you sit around with an Odroid people are just going to laugh at you | 21:31 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Although I wish the Pandora had its HDMI out | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | in contrary to a email with a pandora preorder in it? | 21:31 |
| johnsq | Stskeeps: looks good, but still vapourware | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnsq: yeah.. | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnsq: that said, 320x480 is kinda crap | 21:32 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Stskeeps: probably essential for the HDMI out | 21:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless: hey, I should have known and adopted that PoV some 2 years ago. Whould have eased my life several times | 21:33 |
| johnsq | Stskeeps: I see, thats bad, so still n900 the best device. | 21:34 |
| Ceron^ | so when will i see more 3d games | 21:34 |
| Ceron^ | on my n900 :\ | 21:34 |
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| nezb | does Ovi sync contacts to N900? | 21:34 |
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| Ceron^ | no working version of ovi suite for n900 | 21:34 |
| Ceron^ | yet | 21:34 |
| nezb | Ceron^: any time frame for that? Ovi looks pretty cool but I have no way to try it out | 21:35 |
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| nezb | isn't there Ovi for the N800? | 21:35 |
| Ceron^ | ovi e-store? | 21:35 |
| Ceron^ | or the ovi suite? | 21:35 |
| nezb | suite | 21:35 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: it has "no cellular connection"? | 21:36 |
| nezb | also, is anyone else getting " | 21:36 |
| nezb | We're sorry, Ovi.com is unavailable at the moment." | 21:36 |
| timeless_mbp | so it's basically an overpriced gameboy? | 21:36 |
| nezb | think of it as an internet tablet, timeless_mbp | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: pandora doesn't have celluar either afaik | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:37 |
| kevloral | nezb: nope, ovi.com works fine from here. | 21:37 |
| nezb | I still use my Gameboy Color from time to time | 21:37 |
| timeless_mbp | nezb: i'm pretty sure i can buy a 770 for less :) | 21:37 |
| evo | andre__: ping | 21:37 |
| nezb | timeless_mbp: I spent $400 on my N800 when I first got it. It kills me to know that is is almost worthless now. | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | what, worthless? | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:38 |
| nezb | well, to sell. | 21:38 |
| nezb | I still use it from time to time. | 21:38 |
| nezb | an iPod touch replaced it as an internet tablet, sadly | 21:38 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 21:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | i have an iPod touch | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia bought it for me | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't used it in ages, heck, i don't remember where i put it | 21:39 |
| nezb | why would they do that? | 21:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | the iPod touch has a web browser | 21:39 |
| jiajia | salari | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i work on the browser for the n800/n810/n900 | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | so it's a competitive product | 21:39 |
| jiajia | timeless_mbp:which browser u think it is the best for n900 | 21:40 |
| * Arkenoi will pay $50 to anyone who is willing to sell his n800 ;-) | 21:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | you always need to know your competitors | 21:40 |
| nezb | the Safari for iPhoneOS is amazing. I still prefer it to even the N900, although I must give major props to the N900 MicroB | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | jiajia: would it surprise you to hear me say that i'm biased? | 21:40 |
| nezb | Arkenoi: only 50$? | 21:40 |
| GAN900 | Gawd, did h-a-m get slower in Fremantle or is it just me? | 21:40 |
| ljp | pffftt.. iphone doesnt even have flash | 21:40 |
| GAN900 | jiajia, MicroB. | 21:41 |
| nezb | ljp: meh, flash is overrated | 21:41 |
| andre__ | evo, pong | 21:41 |
| jiajia | GAN900:thanks man | 21:41 |
| ljp | nezb: most websites/ads, I would say ya. but there are good uses for flash as well | 21:41 |
| Arkenoi | nezb, well, and my old n770 as a bonus. that's how i estimate the upgrade value ;-) | 21:41 |
| evo | andre__: sorry to bother you, just wanted to be sure you got my mail yesterday | 21:41 |
| GAN900 | nezb, spoken like a true iPhone user. ;) | 21:41 |
| andre__ | evo, yes, ariived. thanks :) | 21:41 |
| ljp | like online kids games to keep my kids entertained | 21:41 |
| nezb | GAN900: I have an iPhone and an N800, N900... not really biased here | 21:42 |
| jiajia | GAN900: how could i get this microb from my n900 sire: | 21:42 |
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| evo | andre__: thanks to you :) | 21:42 |
| johnsq | ljp: good games didn't need flash :> | 21:42 |
| nezb | Arkenoi: where do you live | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: i'd tell you that the product was actually the "nokia 770" | 21:42 |
| Arkenoi | Russia | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | but it seems are sales team can't get our product names straight | 21:42 |
| Arkenoi | Moscow | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | so i'm not sure i should bother | 21:42 |
| GAN900 | I can't take any browswr that runs at less than VGA seriously. | 21:42 |
| wazd | nezb: Apple is overrated | 21:42 |
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| nezb | Arkenoi: shipping from the U.S. will be more expensive than the device... | 21:42 |
| GAN900 | jiajia, it's the built-in on. | 21:42 |
| evo | andre__: I think I found a new bug, I'll report it (albums with same name but different authors always get same cover even if they're different) | 21:43 |
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| nezb | wazd: in some regards, yes. Mac OS X is their only worthy product. | 21:43 |
| GAN900 | s/on/one/ | 21:43 |
| infobot | GAN900 meant: jiajia, it's the built-in one. | 21:43 |
| Arkenoi | yep :-( unless someone is travelling and willing to take it with him | 21:43 |
| jiajia | aha i did not find it , so u menan the one called "web" | 21:43 |
| GAN900 | Yes | 21:43 |
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| wazd | nezb: Citibank Online has flash password input to prevent keylogging | 21:43 |
| Dantonic-2 | what's the "xorg" logging process i usually see when running top? | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | .. | 21:43 |
| nezb | wazd: LOL | 21:43 |
| wazd | nezb: any phone without minimal flash support is a junk automaticaly | 21:44 |
| * GAN900 wonders idly what the source status of MicroB is these days. | 21:44 | |
| nezb | you can keylog flash... | 21:44 |
| jiajia | GAN900: alright so i don't need to download what ever firefox | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: technically the gecko part is in mxr / repo | 21:44 |
| * nezb just installed fennec on N900 to try it out. looks nice so far. | 21:44 | |
| timeless_mbp | the other part, gah, i suppose i could ask someone | 21:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | but not over the weekend | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | jiajia: you're welcome to try any browser that runs on the n900 | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | we're not stopping you | 21:45 |
| timeless_mbp | if you like a different browser, that's your choice | 21:45 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, last impression I was under was that it would be open for Maemo 5. | 21:45 |
| wazd | Arkenoi: I can pay you 50 bucks for your n900 :D Since you've got it for free :P | 21:45 |
| jiajia | timeless_mbp: haha i just wanna the best one is enough | 21:45 |
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| * Arkenoi paid $80 for 770 1.5 years ago ;-) | 21:47 | |
| RST38h | Arkenoi, wazd: BTW http://abbra.livejournal.com/156578.html?thread=911010#t911010 | 21:47 |
| nezb | any good ideas for cool things to do with my old N800? | 21:47 |
| Markus23 | nezb: installing qt 4.6 | 21:48 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, yep, already seen it | 21:48 |
| solarion | nezb: cool is in the eye of the beholder | 21:48 |
| solarion | nezb: there are plenty of cool aps | 21:48 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nezb: hide it under your kid brother's bed and at night, play your voice with a sound modulator and go "The humans will diiiiiiiiiee, sooooooooon" | 21:48 |
| solarion | or you coul develop software for it | 21:48 |
| Ceron^ | where are all the opengl games for n900 :( | 21:48 |
| Arkenoi | nezb, "toilet rss reader", that's it ;-) | 21:49 |
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| nezb | Arkenoi: my ipod touch already does that :P | 21:49 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nezb: "braaaaaaains" | 21:49 |
| nezb | crashanddie_mbp: that would probably scare the crap out of my kid brother | 21:49 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | nezb: my point exactly | 21:49 |
| nezb | crashanddie_mbp: he would probably smash the N800 after that though :P | 21:49 |
| Arkenoi | n800 is better- bigger screen | 21:49 |
| nezb | Markus23: do you have a guide for that? | 21:49 |
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| nezb | Arkenoi: yeah but I prefer the app I use on the iPod touch | 21:50 |
| nezb | iPhoneOS has some really good apps, to be honest | 21:50 |
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| Markus23 | nezb: are you beginner or programmer? | 21:50 |
| nezb | some of the N900 stuff isn't "finger optimized" enough | 21:50 |
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| nezb | Markus23: I prefer to call it "hacking" rather than "programming" :P | 21:51 |
| Markus23 | nezb: it has gps, or? you could do geo caching :-) | 21:51 |
| nezb | Markus23: no GPS :( | 21:51 |
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| Markus23 | ohh, ok, then the solutions are external, sorry | 21:51 |
| nezb | ooh I got a good idea. I have an LED grid that uses a serial port to program the display. | 21:51 |
| nezb | I can buy a USB-serial adapter and control the display with the N800 over 802.11 wifi | 21:52 |
| Markus23 | nezb: you could hack something where you track what you are trinking at a night and it shows you the promille of alcohol :-) | 21:52 |
| Markus23 | (I hope you are not young) | 21:52 |
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| nezb | maybe stream twitter.com/WeAreMaemo to it or something :P | 21:52 |
| nezb | Markus23: I have a keychain breathalizer that runs on two AAA batteries for that :P | 21:53 |
| Arkenoi | you may plug usb wifi and go wardriving (iirc builtin wifi does not allow packet injection) | 21:53 |
| nezb | hehehe | 21:53 |
| nezb | I went wardriving with a friend a couple of times. We upgraded a lot of router firmwares. | 21:53 |
| Arkenoi | :-) | 21:53 |
| * luke-jr ponders if it's possible to have a handheld with both LCD and OLED displays | 21:54 | |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: i am interested too | 21:54 |
| luke-jr | and the LCD only powered up for video or low-light | 21:54 |
| Markus23 | would be fantastic | 21:54 |
| Markus23 | don't think it exists now | 21:54 |
| nezb | is there MMS for N900? | 21:55 |
| luke-jr | plus an eInk keypad ;) | 21:55 |
| Arkenoi | nezb, no | 21:55 |
| Markus23 | or e-ink with lcd | 21:55 |
| nezb | they should make MMS for the N900 | 21:55 |
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| Markus23 | even better? | 21:55 |
| Arkenoi | but mms seems to be almost dead | 21:55 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: eInk is currently greyscale only | 21:55 |
| nezb | my friends still use it. | 21:55 |
| Markus23 | nezb: nobody needs MMS, or? | 21:55 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: probably not wanted for regular use | 21:55 |
| Arkenoi | i made a poll, about 500 people responded to it | 21:55 |
| nezb | college students + iPhone = lots of MMS usage | 21:55 |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: if you have lcd anyway for fallback? why do you need colors then? | 21:56 |
| nezb | I sold my iPhone to get the N900 | 21:56 |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: for reading eInk is really really great | 21:56 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: it just wouldn't market well | 21:56 |
| Arkenoi | i personally like MMS, it is like SMS on steroids and push email is not widespread enough | 21:56 |
| go1dfish | anyone else have their phone telling you the firmware version is (null) in About Product? | 21:56 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: perhaps eInk+OLED+LCD :p | 21:56 |
| nezb | MS Exchange is a horrible excuse for push email | 21:56 |
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| luke-jr | Markus23: would be even sweeter if it could be overlay-based... | 21:56 |
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| Arkenoi | but it turns out that almost no one uses it and more than half people either have incapable phone or their phones were not set up properly | 21:56 |
| hpbox | hi, I'm having trouble getting on the internet. I'm using the N900 device. Following the directions here: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_Networking | 21:57 |
| Arkenoi | and there are major connectivity problems for different operators | 21:57 |
| hpbox | I can ping the computer from the device, but not the other way around, also the device cannot resolve googe.com | 21:57 |
| Arkenoi | and it is simply not reliable enough | 21:57 |
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| Markus23 | why push email when you can have normal imap? | 21:58 |
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| nezb | because imap does not push, it is polling | 21:58 |
| Arkenoi | so mms is effectively dead, i sent 3-4 messages a month and received 1-2 | 21:58 |
| nezb | it depends on the market. may college students use mms | 21:59 |
| nezb | s/may/many | 21:59 |
| guaqua | is there some generic way of accessing letters that are not printed on the keyboard? | 21:59 |
| Arkenoi | that's the reason too | 21:59 |
| nezb | guaqua - push the blue arrow and then SYM | 21:59 |
| Arkenoi | "mms is for schoolboys" | 21:59 |
| Arkenoi | quite common misconception | 21:59 |
| hpbox | guaqua: you might try the on screen keyboard, or I don't know if you can plug in a keyboard | 21:59 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 22:00 |
| luke-jr | actually, wtf | 22:00 |
| luke-jr | eInk has a colour version since 2005 | 22:00 |
| nezb | N900 doesn't do host USB mode so you can't plug in a keyboard ... | 22:00 |
| luke-jr | nobody uses it? | 22:00 |
| hpbox | nezb: I was wondering about that | 22:00 |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: so color eInk + lcd :-) | 22:00 |
| hpbox | nezb: but I could connect to the internet right? | 22:00 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: sounds nice | 22:01 |
| SpeedEvil | eink has demonstrated a colour eink panel != eink has made commercially available at a reasonable price reliable panels. | 22:01 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: will require some serious X hacking i suspect :x | 22:01 |
| Markus23 | maybe n910 *g* | 22:01 |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: yes, multitouch is more realistic | 22:01 |
| luke-jr | since eInk DPI is not comparable to LCD dpi yet | 22:01 |
| dl9pf | no usb host mode on n900 ? | 22:01 |
| dl9pf | really ? | 22:01 |
| Vratha | goal of the day: bulid and install prboom on the n900 | 22:01 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: tbh, I don't care about touch period | 22:01 |
| nezb | please do not speak of an N910... I don't have any money left lol | 22:01 |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: or you could make it hardware-switchable | 22:01 |
| guaqua | nezb: is there a way to get to another 'page' in the special characters? | 22:02 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: ? | 22:02 |
| hpbox | dl9pf: can you or nezb explain what that means? | 22:02 |
| SpeedEvil | dl9pf: If htere is USB host mode, nobody has gotten it working. | 22:02 |
| Markus23 | nezb: lol, only joking, did not open my n900 box yet | 22:02 |
| hpbox | guaqua: I'd like a return button on the botton of the console onscreen keyboard | 22:03 |
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| guaqua | how do you launch the onscreen keyboard? | 22:03 |
| nezb | guaqua: not sure | 22:03 |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: I mean to switch between eink and lcd not by X but by hardware | 22:03 |
| hpbox | it's under settings | 22:03 |
| hpbox | I like it | 22:03 |
| guaqua | nezb: ahh. got the accents in another way :) | 22:03 |
| nezb | Markus23: Open it!! | 22:03 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: you would need to restart X too | 22:03 |
| nezb | guaqua: how? | 22:03 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: X cannot change DPI on the fly | 22:03 |
| guaqua | hpbox: i enabled it, but it doesn't pop up anywhere | 22:03 |
| guaqua | nezb: dead accent keys for ' and ` | 22:04 |
| hpbox | guaqua: next hit any textbox, or console | 22:04 |
| hpbox | guaqua: I'm talking about the n900, I'm newbie to maemo | 22:04 |
| guaqua | hpbox: the same for me | 22:04 |
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| hpbox | I'm starting to feel the differences between debian and redhat | 22:04 |
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| hpbox | quaqua: what are you trying to do? | 22:05 |
| guaqua | i needed to get some accents, but got it covered | 22:05 |
| hpbox | guaqua: sorry I'm using irssi | 22:05 |
| guaqua | now i'd like to see that onscreen keyboard | 22:05 |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: ok, that is definitiv a problem then, maybe they etink and lcd can have same resolution :-) | 22:05 |
| hpbox | guana: did you figure out how to switch between windows yets? | 22:05 |
| luke-jr | Markus23: eInk afaik can only do 80 dpi or so at most | 22:05 |
| Markus23 | hpbox: debian is great, or :-) | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | you'll never use same video-interface for LCD and eInk. So you'd need separate xserver anyway | 22:05 |
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| hpbox | Markus23: I use F12 | 22:06 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer-8: X support multiple video interfaces... | 22:06 |
| Markus23 | luke-jr: when color ink has reasonable prices it may do much more :-) | 22:06 |
| * luke-jr wonders what the color eink framerate is | 22:07 | |
| nezb | has anyone tried the Skype with video calls (front web cam)? | 22:07 |
| hpbox | hpbox: applications > settings > text input | 22:07 |
| Markus23 | hpbox: what has F12 to do with debian? | 22:07 |
| nezb | luke-jr: probably like 1/2fps | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | aha, so it can do concurrent interfaces but only with same resolution? though completely different modelines? interesting | 22:07 |
| * Arkenoi wonders if my GSM operator will ever let me reroute incoming calls to SIP.. they already do that, but not for my home network | 22:07 | |
| Markus23 | is there a web cam in n900? | 22:07 |
| nezb | Markus23: yes | 22:07 |
| nezb | 640x480 cam in the front | 22:07 |
| nezb | 5MP cam in back | 22:08 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer-8: even with different resolutions. but the DPI is the problem | 22:08 |
| Markus23 | wow, didn't know of that | 22:08 |
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| hpbox | Markus: they are different, my comment is that i can really see the differences I was reffereing to configuration files etc.. | 22:08 |
| hpbox | Markus: web cam yes 2 I think | 22:08 |
| Arkenoi | btw did you try "mirror" application - do you get reasonable picture quality there? I get terrible digital nose all over | 22:09 |
| Arkenoi | noise | 22:09 |
| nezb | I get horrible picture from Mirror app | 22:09 |
| hpbox | Markus: web cam yes, at least one is definatly a web cam the other may be only a camera | 22:09 |
| Arkenoi | so that's not me just having faulty cam | 22:09 |
| nezb | very static-y image with little color on Mirror | 22:09 |
| hpbox | the two cameras have different resolutions | 22:09 |
| nezb | I think the app has bad code or something | 22:09 |
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| hpbox | how can I tell the device that I want it to use usb0 to communicate to the internet? | 22:10 |
| nezb | hpbox: route command? | 22:10 |
| hpbox | I can ping my host computer, bu... | 22:10 |
| hpbox | yeah | 22:10 |
| hpbox | that's what I need to do | 22:10 |
| hpbox | nezb: how? | 22:10 |
| hpbox | on the host or the device? | 22:11 |
| luke-jr | ip route add default via ... | 22:11 |
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| luke-jr | on device | 22:11 |
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| nezb | /sbin/route | 22:11 |
| nezb | or just ifdown the wifi | 22:11 |
| luke-jr | /sbin/route is deprecated :p | 22:12 |
| nezb | luke-jr: really? didn't know that | 22:12 |
| nezb | why? | 22:12 |
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| luke-jr | nezb: iproute2 replaced it | 22:12 |
| nezb | oh | 22:12 |
| nezb | same syntax? | 22:12 |
| luke-jr | no | 22:12 |
| hpbox | ah, thanks.. ifdown wifi says "..not configured" | 22:13 |
| luke-jr | I don't know if /sbin/route supported interface creation and such | 22:13 |
| luke-jr | or routing tables | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: straaange. the bat capacity reading gets kinda stuck during device idle and dim. and just dropped 46->35 when I unlocked it | 22:13 |
| nezb | no I don't think so either. | 22:13 |
| nezb | iptables? | 22:13 |
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| nezb | DocScrutinizer-8: how do you get numberic battery percent? | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: before it was stuck at 46 for 60min | 22:14 |
| hpbox | I typed iproute2 I wish I could pastebin the results | 22:14 |
| luke-jr | nezb: iptables doesn't do routing | 22:14 |
| nezb | reading battery capacity is not an exact science | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | nezb: lshal | 22:14 |
| luke-jr | hpbox: the command is 'ip' | 22:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer; yeah - it seems wiered. | 22:14 |
| nezb | DocScrutinizer-8: erm... what should I grep from that | 22:14 |
| hpbox | luke-jr: ip returned a command not found | 22:14 |
| SpeedEvil | nezb: yes, it actually is pretty muhc. | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | precent | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | or try bat | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | nezb: trying to interpret what the value really is secondhand is annoying though. | 22:15 |
| luke-jr | hpbox: ew | 22:15 |
| luke-jr | oh well | 22:15 |
| nezb | battery.charge_level.percentage = 56 (0x38) (int) | 22:15 |
| luke-jr | perhaps just eInk for keypad then | 22:15 |
| nezb | maybe I should make a widget that displays battery percent on your home screen? | 22:16 |
| hpbox | luke-jr: would it help to know what iproute2 says? | 22:16 |
| crashanddie_mbp | heh, skype call from n900 to n800 -- california to italy -- my mate hasn't been in a house for 3 months, only tents | 22:16 |
| hcarrega | nezb: it would be nice | 22:17 |
| nezb | is making widgets hard? maybe I will do it | 22:17 |
| hpbox | sorry that's /sbin/route, I'm a complete newb | 22:17 |
| SpeedEvil | nezb: annoyingly that 58% does not actually seem to be consistnet | 22:18 |
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| hcarrega | i prefer percentage | 22:18 |
| Arkenoi | predicting lifetime would be even better | 22:18 |
| nezb | it should be that tapping the battery icon tells you this information, but alas that is not the case :\ | 22:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: either: that cell chemistry and percentage is calculated from voltage. voltage drops on current rising due to Z. Or: hald or whatever else is involved in bat capacity readout gets suspended when device goes to 'deepsleep' | 22:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | aah great. And charger plugin wasn't detected on first go yet another time :-\ | 22:25 |
| nezb | that happens to me sometimes. I just re-plug it | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yes. replug fixes it. yet annoying | 22:27 |
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| * luke-jr wonders if OMAP3 has enough processing power to reasonably drive an AR handheld | 22:28 | |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: the 'raw' graph looks like it doesn't update until the backlight is on almost | 22:28 |
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| hcarrega | whats the name of that plugin? | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: if there's a way to draw raw currunt from cell without changing device state we could tell apart if it's caused by current rising or cpu doing some update | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | current | 22:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: or I need to finish up my patch lead set. | 22:30 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: and just measure. | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | what would you patch? | 22:31 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: to the bat leads, to measure bat v - for this | 22:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | yep | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | cool | 22:31 |
| SpeedEvil | I tried something with croc-clips, but it's not wanting to know. | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | could also attach a stunt | 22:32 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I have a friend who just did a bike (push bike) trip from southern egypt to northern italy and his only device was a n800 -- loaded with 32 gb of movies and shows for the chill out nights -- their only piece of electronic equipment | 22:32 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: that too. | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | charger attached. capacity more like drops rather than climbs. weird | 22:33 |
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| johnq_ | has someone got network-usb for the n900 working correctly with ubuntu's NetworkManager? | 22:35 |
| johnq_ | it was quite a pain to get it working for the FreeRunner, but some time it magically worked for me. | 22:35 |
| johnq_ | now the problems begin again with the n900... | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnq_: see? not all OM problems are genuine | 22:36 |
| slonopotamus | johnq_, johnsq? :) got n900? | 22:36 |
| johnq_ | slonopotamus: ? | 22:38 |
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| slonopotamus | johnq_, you aren't johnsq? | 22:39 |
| johnq_ | slonopotamus: not that I know ;-) | 22:39 |
| slonopotamus | argh. please, misters johns.*, would you be so kind to choose more distinguishable nicknames? :) | 22:40 |
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| slonopotamus | o_O | 22:44 |
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| nezb | bye all! | 22:56 |
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| wazd | RST38h: what are the top size of the icon again? :) | 22:59 |
| wazd | is* | 22:59 |
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| RST38h | wazd: 64x64 | 23:00 |
| RST38h | wazd: but do go for svg | 23:00 |
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| RST38h | wazd: if you are not doing svg, 48x48 feels like a sensible base size that can still be kinda resized | 23:01 |
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| ersin | hi all | 23:01 |
| ersin | i was wondering if anyone has had problems with scratchbox and automake | 23:02 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, I'll do svg | 23:02 |
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| ersin | i'm trying to configure the svn trunk of abiword from the sources, but...well, it's just being strange | 23:03 |
| ersin | on the one hand, it's properly detecting the host_os variable as linux-gnu | 23:03 |
| ersin | but on the other hand, it's generating a makefile that has mac osx only features, which are only allowed for if host_os=darwin | 23:04 |
| ersin | i'm almost certain that scratchbox has something to do with it | 23:04 |
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| Markus23 | weather of where you currently are - how cool is that! http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/omweather/ | 23:05 |
| Markus23 | in which frequency do new application occur these days? | 23:05 |
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| luke-jr | http://www.eyetap.org/research/medr/rwm.html | 23:06 |
| GAN900 | Ugh | 23:08 |
| GAN900 | Updated to the FBReader in Extras-devel and no more rocker scrolling. :( | 23:08 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, what version is yours? | 23:09 |
| RST38h | 0.7.10_4 | 23:10 |
| RST38h | I think Garage is so dead that it has not even moved my packages into Extras-Devel yet | 23:10 |
| GAN900 | Ugh | 23:10 |
| RST38h | even the binary packages =( | 23:10 |
| GAN900 | Stupid ISP | 23:10 |
| GAN900 | We need an ISP that doesn't make development and usage impossible. | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | dang that's sick. after almost 1h of charging 32% no change | 23:11 |
| peterq | Has anybody succeeded in compiling a kernel module for maemo? | 23:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | peterq: compiling or compiling + loading? | 23:12 |
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| peterq | timeless_mbp: yeah, loading is the problem ;-) | 23:13 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, did it actually start charging? | 23:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | GAN900: you bet. it gets noticably warm | 23:16 |
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| sp3000 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udlxr8t1nZM | 23:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | BwaaHaHAHAAHA. unplugged charger... -> bumps up from 32 to 79 | 23:17 |
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| * jshupe just purchased an n900 from Amazon.com | 23:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | congrats | 23:19 |
| jshupe | thanks. | 23:20 |
| ruskie | hmm anyone know if there's a specfic pulse audio sink that the mediaplayer uses? | 23:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | why should it be different from what other audioapps use? | 23:22 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: but can it butter the bottom side of my toast? | 23:23 |
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| peterq | somebody mentioned compiling the iptables module yesterday | 23:23 |
| peterq | unfortunately I don't remember who that was | 23:23 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer-8, just curious because I'm trying to use xmms2 on it and it blasts at max volume out so am wondering if there is a separate audio sink for it | 23:24 |
| andre__ | sp3000, that promo video has some typos in their german. quite embarassing | 23:24 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: lol | 23:24 |
| sp3000 | heh | 23:24 |
| andre__ | but as it's fake anyway... | 23:24 |
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| phreck | sup | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ruskie: isn't max volume a good thing first instance? | 23:25 |
| ruskie | no | 23:28 |
| ruskie | it happens also if I do stop and then play | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | ruskie: sorry don't follow. Probably extreme hypoglycemia | 23:31 |
| * Arkenoi wonders - according to user blogs, almost every second n900 newbie says that he "installed IM client". Why? What's wrong with builtin one? The whole n900 concept is about getting rid of such thing as "IM application" and they install it in the first hand anyways? | 23:32 | |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | I for one hate pidgin (purple) | 23:33 |
| ifreq | Arkenoi: yeh but mayb they mean also plugins(i hope) | 23:33 |
| Arkenoi | nope, they usually mean pidgin | 23:34 |
| ifreq | okay. | 23:34 |
| ifreq | wish the IRC plugin would be more usable.. tho xchat is much more fun :) | 23:34 |
| jebba | pidgin has options enabled for video chat with gtalk and it "sees" the camera (in that in the config, you can pick either camera and it lists them), but i havent tried a video conf with it yet. | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | so for IRC I'm just happy I can install xchat | 23:34 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: builtin stuff does not transfer files, does not let you query information about the user | 23:35 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: and does not do IC | 23:35 |
| RST38h | IRC | 23:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | it does | 23:35 |
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| jebba | anyone know what the deal is with java on n900? amigo wants to install a java app. | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | but the way it does... :-S | 23:35 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: not supported out of the box | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Maemo [bad cert] | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | use 'http' instead | 23:36 |
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| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 23:37 | |
| timeless_mbp | what idiot provides a readonly wiki editor? | 23:37 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: i dont see anything in extras or -devel or anywhere. Is it something anyone is working on or? ...not supported out of the box... does that mean it is supported elsewhere? | 23:38 |
| Proteous | heh | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: that url was for you | 23:38 |
| Proteous | in the box only | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | beware, the English is written by a German | 23:38 |
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| Proteous | once you unpack it you no longer have support | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | or at least, i suspect it's a german | 23:38 |
| jebba | ah thx | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | is that not so nice sounding, or what? | 23:39 |
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| yabo | hmmm | 23:40 |
| yabo | is there an unzip app ? | 23:40 |
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| yabo | i'm stuck with a zip file :) | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | yabo: with a gui or without? | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | you can get infozip from the repos | 23:41 |
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| yabo | don't care | 23:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | get mc | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | lol | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | i got unzip from an internal repo | 23:42 |
| timeless_mbp | it seems someone decided it was important to package | 23:42 |
| yabo | i have neither infozip nor mc | 23:42 |
| timeless_mbp | as i said, you can *get* them from repos | 23:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | the package you want is 'unzip', assuming you don't need to be able to zip | 23:42 |
| yabo | what repos ? | 23:42 |
| timeless_mbp | probably extras-devel.. | 23:42 |
| yabo | argh | 23:42 |
| yabo | extras-devel kills your children and eats your kitten :) | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | well, it might be in testing, but i doubt it | 23:43 |
| RST38h | so can I have the remaining kittens? | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | you could get someone to push it to testing | 23:43 |
| yabo | not in testing :( | 23:43 |
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| RST38h | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ | 23:45 |
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| RST38h | Shit, why not just replace maemo.org/packages with ageofikon.info ? | 23:46 |
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| yabo | oups | 23:46 |
| RST38h | yabo: www.ageofikon.info and search for Maemo5 / unzip | 23:47 |
| yabo | so i'll have to say good bye to my kitten :( | 23:47 |
| yabo | thanks ! | 23:47 |
| yabo | "coming soon" | 23:48 |
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| jebba | wtf ageofikon.info ? | 23:54 |
| RST38h | why do you have to ask? | 23:54 |
| jebba | http://ageofikon.info/packrat/ | 23:55 |
| RST38h | and why do you have to ask? | 23:56 |
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| jebba | well, apparently yabo and I did the same thing. anyway. why do you have to ask why do i have to ask? | 23:57 |
| crashanddie_mbp | jesse ventura is such a joke | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: the fsf-gnome thing on /. sounds fun | 23:58 |
| andre__ | yeah, just realized it | 23:59 |
| RST38h | jebba: I am bored and willing to do some psychoanalysis. | 23:59 |
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