| TomaszD | noise | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| TomaszD | even with a local station | 00:00 |
| TomaszD | unbearable | 00:00 |
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| VDVsx | TomaszD, perfect here | 00:02 |
| VDVsx | I'm using last FM radio version | 00:02 |
| TomaszD | me too | 00:03 |
| VDVsx | can be a HW issue, remember that you've a pre-pre production device | 00:03 |
| TomaszD | that, or someone is spying on me, because the mic is on :P | 00:03 |
| ifreq | TomaszD: prob goverment | 00:04 |
| TomaszD | I recall reading a post about an identical issue | 00:04 |
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| VDVsx | TomaszD, did you tried to restart it ? can be a hanged process that keeps the mic on | 00:05 |
| TomaszD | ...let me check... brb... | 00:05 |
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| TomaszD | alright, so the mic isn't that big of a problem | 00:09 |
| TomaszD | there isn't any noise, it's more like the lower tones are nonexistant | 00:10 |
| TomaszD | it's as if you cranked up the volume on full on a poor quality bass speaker | 00:11 |
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| TomaszD | prolly hw issue | 00:11 |
| lcuk | TomaszD, i thought ALL local radio stations sounded just like that | 00:12 |
| TomaszD | no, I can tell the difference, my nokia e51 fm radio sounds brilliant in comparison, clean and clear sound | 00:12 |
| Firebird | has anyone figured out how to do portrait mode with QT? | 00:13 |
| TomaszD | anyway, can't complain about anything else so it's ok | 00:13 |
| ali1234 | TomaszD: i reported the n900 radio thing earlier, it is caused by the mic it seems | 00:14 |
| TomaszD | ali1234 ahh so it was you | 00:14 |
| TomaszD | ali1234 did you report this on bugzilla? | 00:14 |
| ali1234 | with regular headphones it sounds fine | 00:14 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 00:14 |
| TomaszD | oh boy oh boy | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | it seems like the hardware detects what is plugged in, mic/tv out etc - they all have different quirks | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | For the irish amongst us: https://forum.vodafone.ie/index.php?/topic/1140-nokia-n900/ | 00:17 |
| TomaszD | confirmed, superb sound with normal headphones | 00:17 |
| TomaszD | thanks ali1234 | 00:18 |
| VDVsx | Firebird, Quicktime supports portrait mode ? :P | 00:18 |
| Firebird | :o | 00:18 |
| VDVsx | Firebird, better ask in qt-maemo | 00:18 |
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| wazd | I think there's 2 Gb for apps | 00:23 |
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| VDVsx | wazd, yes, for optified apps | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, 2 gigabits? :P | 00:26 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: 2 green badgers :) | 00:26 |
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| VDVsx | wazd, never saw one :) | 00:28 |
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| Analias | Q: I'm trying to track down where the function hildon_get_user_named_dir() is implemented. Is this part of the public code or is it part of the Nokia non-free code? | 00:39 |
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| javispedro | Analias: glib? | 00:41 |
| Analias | javispedro: That's where it suppose to be, but the linked copy used by Freemantle doesn't include an implementation in the tarball - making me wonder if it it's public code or not | 00:42 |
| javispedro | Analias: glib/debian/patches/80-hildon-user-named-dir.patch ? | 00:42 |
| Macer | hm | 00:42 |
| Macer | installed a cyanogen rom on my g1 | 00:42 |
| Macer | and have been waiting 5 minutes for it to boot :) | 00:42 |
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| Analias | javispedro: I haven't been able to find that file - it's missing from the 2.20.3 source code I'm looking at :( | 00:43 |
| Analias | javispedro: found it - thanks! | 00:44 |
| javispedro | :) | 00:44 |
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| javispedro | Macer: "population dalvik cache" or something like that. | 00:45 |
| javispedro | s/population/populating | 00:45 |
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| Macer | javispedro: yeah probably | 01:19 |
| Macer | but i am having a ton of problems getting the damn thing going | 01:19 |
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| ali1234 | yeah first boot has to compile all the java - um dalvik into byte code. and it takes ages | 01:22 |
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| pupnik | hi | 01:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Damnable DST | 01:36 |
| pupnik | ? | 01:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I hate it when it gets dark out at 6PM. | 01:41 |
| tekonivel | GeneralAntilles: it get dark at 3 pm here | 01:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | tekonivel, yeah, well, I don't live in hell. :P | 01:41 |
| tekonivel | GeneralAntilles: lol | 01:42 |
| tekonivel | GeneralAntilles: the rent is cheap | 01:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | subtropical climates actually have daylight. | 01:42 |
| tekonivel | (that was a lie) | 01:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'd die with less than 7 hours of daylight a day. | 01:42 |
| tekonivel | GeneralAntilles: many people do; finland is the suicide-capital after japan | 01:42 |
| tekonivel | or something | 01:43 |
| ifreq | tekonivel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate | 01:43 |
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| tekonivel | oh, the eastern europe has catched up | 01:50 |
| derf | They actually report suicide numbers now. | 01:51 |
| tekonivel | japan has it's own article | 01:52 |
| tekonivel | great | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Reporting will vary. | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | How willing are the police to write down 'suicide', vs 'accidental death' | 01:53 |
| tekonivel | depending if the ppl working in the ministy of statisics decidedd to jump out the window or not | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | e.g. taking too many ... | 01:53 |
| tekonivel | SpeedEvil: depending on the culture | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/190/ | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Statistics! | 01:53 |
| tekonivel | i would imagine religion plays a role in places where ppl actally are religious | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | tekonivel: yeah - it's gonna vastly skew the results though. | 01:54 |
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| practisevoodoo | is there a g++ for n810? | 02:13 |
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| pupnik | the more i compare n810 to things, the more awesome it feels. esp that metal case and godly speakers | 03:33 |
| ShadowJK | if only it had fullsize SD | 03:33 |
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| pupnik | i've seen some wacky sd cards. one transmits data stored over wifi to a SMB share. | 03:37 |
| pupnik | anything else nifty that they do? | 03:37 |
| ShadowJK | SDIO is a generic bus | 03:38 |
| ShadowJK | there's not much limit to what you can have on it | 03:39 |
| ShadowJK | well, space if you want to fit it into SD sized card | 03:39 |
| pupnik | mhm | 03:41 |
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| zakkm | does maemo 5 final work on beagleboard? | 04:07 |
| zakkm | or would it, considering purchasing one | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | no. | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, there's a thread on -developers. | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, yes, in fact. | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | maemo 5 is a partially closed source thingy | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 04:07 |
| qole | Cool! Fremantle version of the echowb theme! | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean legally | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically the same CPU | 04:07 |
| qole | http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/4066959248/ | 04:07 |
| zakkm | i remember the sdk did, but wasnt sure about final / would it be good | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | you can't I assume legally put the binaries on it - even if it'd work. | 04:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, well, Nokia's relicensed a lot of their stuff to allow redistribution | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 04:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Only thing you'd really have issue with is Flash. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | neat. | 04:08 |
| zakkm | ah you guys are so lucky you got a n900 | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | I do? | 04:08 |
| * SpeedEvil looks. | 04:08 | |
| SpeedEvil | Can you give me a hint? | 04:08 |
| zakkm | to be honest, i was looking at really legal | 04:09 |
| zakkm | dont use PC as much as i used to, so im considering selling my desktop and buying a beagle board | 04:09 |
| zakkm | but maemo on it would be sick im thinking, as opposed to android | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | IMO, having more than several working 'normal' computers is a bad plan. | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | What if you have two failures. | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | You might be left without internet. | 04:10 |
| ShadowJK | it'd be a pretty painful excercise | 04:10 |
| zakkm | its a home pc, and its for my room | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | heving less than several | 04:10 |
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| zakkm | theres family pcs in basement for anything | 04:10 |
| zakkm | and im a teenager, not a developer | 04:10 |
| zakkm | i have friends house too | 04:11 |
| zakkm | a failure wouldnt do anything | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd keep the PC. | 04:11 |
| ali1234 | just put ubuntu on it -> win | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Beagle isn't going to do high quality YouTube videos competently, etc. | 04:11 |
| zakkm | i need the cash for beagle board though | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo's probably not a good choice for a desktop setup, either. | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | What are you hoping to do with the beagle board? | 04:12 |
| zakkm | for now anyways , and with beagle board i wouldnt need ppc | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Better off with Moblin or plain Ubuntu. | 04:12 |
| zakkm | i dont want it to be a desktop anymore | 04:12 |
| zakkm | should i add that my monitor is wallmounteede aganist my wall | 04:12 |
| ShadowJK | i'd definitely keep the pc. you'd need it to make use out of the beagleboard. it doesn't come in a very useable state | 04:12 |
| zakkm | eventually i wll plan to buy a touchscreen , and wallmount that | 04:12 |
| zakkm | i have debian on my zipit z2 , and i have windows computers downstairs | 04:13 |
| zakkm | i could use for setup | 04:13 |
| zakkm | or friends house | 04:13 |
| zakkm | want beagle board mostly cause its silent, small helps too | 04:13 |
| zakkm | and power usage , keep electricity costs low | 04:13 |
| ShadowJK | there is definitely no easy way to install the full maemo os on beagleboard. even getting the SDK on it is probably 'challenging' for a non-developer/poweruser | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | you can use a broken-screen laptop in the same way. | 04:13 |
| zakkm | i dont use my pc like i used to, i dont need such power at all, and with the DSP, i can play my videos | 04:13 |
| zakkm | broken screen laptop? | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | A laptop with a broken screen. | 04:14 |
| zakkm | would be more expensive pretty much | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | They are quite cheap on ebay. | 04:14 |
| zakkm | and not worth it | 04:14 |
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| zakkm | i have a highly overclocked machine currently | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | And much more functional than a beagle board. | 04:14 |
| zakkm | running osx 10.6.1 | 04:14 |
| zakkm | i want low powered, and i want something small | 04:15 |
| zakkm | like maemo or android | 04:15 |
| ali1234 | seems like you want to buy a beagleboard :) | 04:15 |
| ShadowJK | if you want low power you probably shouldn't overclock :) | 04:15 |
| zakkm | it would just be like download, and video watch , bit chatting | 04:15 |
| zakkm | yeah that too | 04:15 |
| zakkm | like i have a geforce 8500gt in my PC, that alone takes like 140w | 04:15 |
| SpeedEvil | My laptop is currently drawing about 15W | 04:15 |
| SpeedEvil | and 5 of that is the screen | 04:15 |
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| zakkm | yeah | 04:16 |
| ShadowJK | 140W when running 3D games... | 04:16 |
| zakkm | my monitor takes like 65W lol | 04:16 |
| zakkm | i kno | 04:16 |
| zakkm | well in load, which mostly only happens in games | 04:16 |
| zakkm | but yeah | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | So a laptop will give you most of the power savings. | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | And still be lots more functional than the beagleboard 'normally' | 04:16 |
| ali1234 | my PC uses like 1.21 gigawatts and can't even play HD video... probably isn't much faster than a beagleboard. only thing it has going for it is it can run windows. which i don't use. | 04:16 |
| zakkm | gigawatts? isnt it kilowatts? | 04:17 |
| zakkm | heh i cant afford laptop though | 04:17 |
| zakkm | i want one :P | 04:17 |
| zakkm | i was just thinking of selling my pc tower, buying a beagle board.. and installing maemo and just use it for like web + downloading + viewing | 04:18 |
| zakkm | thats all i do these days , which maemo can do fine | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, I'd wait for the new Atoms, personally. | 04:19 |
| ali1234 | beagleboard looks cheap until you realise you don't get a case | 04:19 |
| zakkm | i dont need a case | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Beagle is just a touch underpowered. | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ASUS-EEE-PC-904HD-SPARES-REPAIR-LAPTOP-NBVA20_W0QQitemZ290338693817QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_Laptops_EH?hash=item439988e2b9 - i have one like this acting as a server | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | works just fine | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | After I sat on it | 04:20 |
| pupnik | nice | 04:20 |
| zakkm | GeneralAntilles: even thats too overpowered for me, and i used to have a d945gclf | 04:20 |
| ShadowJK | i'd get a cheap netbook instead... mostly because I dont' have 2 weeks spare time to build a OS for beagleboard | 04:20 |
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| zakkm | heh | 04:21 |
| zakkm | i was just hoping to sell my PC tower, run maemo 5 off beagle board, using my 23.3" , mouse and keyboard and then just use it for its used | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | d945gclf would be nicer if it had a proper cihpset | 04:22 |
| zakkm | like id really like maemo | 04:22 |
| zakkm | it would suit me a beagle board, i think | 04:22 |
| * b-man17 could get an os running on the beagleboard in less than a day xD | 04:22 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Beagle's output is limited | 04:22 |
| zakkm | yeah i heard that | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | 1280x720 is highly optimistic. | 04:23 |
| zakkm | 1280x1024? i got a 2048x1152 screen lol | 04:23 |
| zakkm | weird eh? | 04:23 |
| zakkm | i thoguht that was weird. .2048x1152 .. but it is | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles: what's the most it can do through DVI? 1024x768? | 04:23 |
| zakkm | 1280x1024 according to beagleboard site | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, it depends, I think. | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | When you go higher that 1024x768 the pixel clock is sometimes out of range for some displays. | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, I have two. | 04:24 |
| zakkm | heh | 04:24 |
| zakkm | sell me one :) | 04:24 |
| zakkm | or lend me one, i give u a collateral :P | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love these Samsungs | 04:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's a great resolution. | 04:25 |
| zakkm | Samsung 2343BWX 23.3" 2048x1152 | 04:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yup | 04:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Great monitor. | 04:25 |
| zakkm | was 189.99 | 04:25 |
| zakkm | have it wallmounted :) | 04:26 |
| zakkm | got wallmount kit off ebay for $10 | 04:26 |
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| zakkm | imagine maemo on it :D | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo kinda sucks without a touchscreen. | 04:26 |
| zakkm | yeah ill buy one eventually :P | 04:26 |
| zakkm | beagle board touchscreens :P | 04:27 |
| zakkm | and then wallmount it | 04:27 |
| zakkm | but that will come much later | 04:27 |
| zakkm | and moblin wont boot on my desktop , it sucks :( | 04:27 |
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| jaem | evening, folks | 04:28 |
| jaem | I noticed the latest Maemo SDK VMs have both the Diablo and Fremantle SDKs installed... | 04:28 |
| jaem | ...is that a straightforward process to set up manually? | 04:29 |
| zakkm | GeneralAntilles: you think beagle board is bad for my purpose? | 04:30 |
| zakkm | is there any other good ones? | 04:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Atom board | 04:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Once the new ones are out. | 04:30 |
| ShadowJK | he had one, or has one | 04:31 |
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| ShadowJK | there are atom boards with less powerhungry chipsets though | 04:31 |
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| zakkm | i gave it to a friend, it made a good hackintosh board for him | 04:31 |
| zakkm | i dont even need atom power tohugh to be honest | 04:32 |
| zakkm | thats why i thought arm would be better | 04:32 |
| jaem | zakkm, what's the project? | 04:32 |
| zakkm | home use :P | 04:32 |
| ShadowJK | web/video/torrent terminal | 04:32 |
| zakkm | no torrents | 04:32 |
| zakkm | http wget's | 04:32 |
| zakkm | i dont use torrents | 04:32 |
| * jaem nods | 04:32 | |
| zakkm | i have my 23.3" wallmounted | 04:33 |
| jaem | nice | 04:33 |
| zakkm | and i want to replace my super power hungry overclocked pc tower, with a beagle board | 04:33 |
| jaem | hmm | 04:33 |
| zakkm | because i dont use my pc like i used to | 04:33 |
| jaem | one of my LCDs just died on me :( | 04:33 |
| zakkm | :( | 04:33 |
| zakkm | that sucks | 04:33 |
| zakkm | warranty? | 04:33 |
| pupnik | nice plan yak | 04:33 |
| pupnik | zakkm: | 04:33 |
| jaem | it was a freebie - an old XGA Acer | 04:33 |
| jaem | so no | 04:33 |
| jaem | but now my second desktop is headless | 04:33 |
| jaem | -shrug- | 04:33 |
| SpeedEvil | zakkm: a 'normal' laptop of some form would work lots better. You don't care much about powersaving, as the LCD is going to dominate. | 04:33 |
| zakkm | thinking its best to replace with beagle board | 04:34 |
| zakkm | yes i do | 04:34 |
| zakkm | thats the reason for the switch, also to go fanless :P | 04:34 |
| zakkm | my monitor is worthwhile though | 04:34 |
| zakkm | and i cant afford a laptop | 04:34 |
| pupnik | maybe you could find space in monitor for beagle | 04:34 |
| jaem | zakkm, why is power a concern? | 04:34 |
| zakkm | beagle board at $150 is expensive enough | 04:34 |
| pupnik | or glotch it on the back | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil | A broken-screen laptop is about as much as the beagleboard | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil | and comes with a heap more stuff | 04:34 |
| zakkm | pupnik: its wallmounted.. so no :P | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | those cm900 netbooks used to cost about 200 | 04:35 |
| zakkm | i dont need the power though | 04:35 |
| zakkm | like cpu power | 04:35 |
| zakkm | i need 480p playback, which it can obviously do | 04:35 |
| pupnik | i like the idea | 04:35 |
| zakkm | even the old omap2430 w.e nokia n800 played them | 04:35 |
| zakkm | and just simple web which is nothing | 04:35 |
| pupnik | no | 04:35 |
| zakkm | okay not 480p i dont know what my videos are | 04:35 |
| pupnik | not 480 vid | 04:35 |
| zakkm | the "legit" 175mb/350mb xvids | 04:35 |
| jaem | millibits? | 04:36 |
| pupnik | mhm - lÃower res | 04:36 |
| zakkm | i just mean the beagle board is moree than enough performance | 04:36 |
| jaem | ;) | 04:36 |
| pupnik | yeah should be ok | 04:36 |
| zakkm | also low powered is a good reason, and its fanless | 04:36 |
| jaem | did the second revision Beagleboard go up in price at all? | 04:36 |
| jaem | relative to the original one, that is | 04:36 |
| zakkm | also being arm i could run like maemo or android or something | 04:36 |
| ShadowJK | i think it did, more ram | 04:36 |
| zakkm | prerably maemo 5 if it would work | 04:37 |
| zakkm | this is like uhh for early january probably | 04:37 |
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| zakkm | i would buy a laptop but thats even more, and i have battery life to consider | 04:38 |
| jaem | zakkm: I just remembered something that might work, but not enough to remember if it will - I'll look it up | 04:38 |
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| zakkm | jaem: please remember :) | 04:38 |
| ShadowJK | you're going to run your massive screen and beagleboard on battery? | 04:38 |
| zakkm | no | 04:38 |
| zakkm | if i get a laptop, i would have to think about battery life which i dont like | 04:39 |
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| zakkm | everything i do is rss / instnat message / mplayer playback | 04:39 |
| ShadowJK | put the battery in a drawer | 04:39 |
| ShadowJK | and dont use it | 04:39 |
| zakkm | i would run massive screen and beagle board together | 04:40 |
| ShadowJK | im only suggesting a cheap laptop instead, because it's wonderful to have a device that actually shows something on screen the first time you turn it on | 04:41 |
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| ShadowJK | a device which actually shows something on screen when you download a linux distro and put it on a usb key | 04:41 |
| zakkm | ah i dont mind that, also as just a web + video thing.. i wouldnt reformat or anything | 04:41 |
| zakkm | linux on a laptop? your kidding right ;p | 04:42 |
| zakkm | idk i might | 04:42 |
| zakkm | linux battery life is awful | 04:42 |
| zakkm | actually maybe linux | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | Well I mean if you're not a poweruser/expert, setting up the beagleboard seems like a lot of effort | 04:42 |
| jaem | zakkm: still looking... | 04:43 |
| zakkm | i am a poweruser | 04:43 |
| zakkm | also once i set it up | 04:44 |
| zakkm | i wont change it] | 04:44 |
| zakkm | if i do maemo, iguess maemo updates, but how often is that? | 04:44 |
| zakkm | and that wouldnt even change much | 04:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably pretty often with Maemo 5. | 04:45 |
| zakkm | yeah true, but i mean once its setup, thats it | 04:45 |
| zakkm | also i wont use it enough, that i would have to update it right away | 04:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | You should just get an N900. | 04:46 |
| zakkm | i cant afford it | 04:46 |
| zakkm | i would if i could | 04:46 |
| zakkm | im getting a ipod touch ... | 04:46 |
| zakkm | for portable use | 04:46 |
| jaem | zakkm: found it, but it probably isn't what you're looking for... | 04:46 |
| zakkm | this is for media center at home, use | 04:46 |
| jaem | http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/artigo/a1000/index.jsp | 04:46 |
| jaem | it's VIA | 04:46 |
| jaem | but it looks interesting, even though it isn't quite what you're looking for | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Via's too expensive. | 04:47 |
| ShadowJK | some of the non-via boards with via cpus are reasonably priiced | 04:47 |
| zakkm | that also sounds like a x86 architecture | 04:48 |
| zakkm | very power hungry too | 04:48 |
| jaem | zakkm, yeah, as I said, it wasn't quite what I remembered | 04:48 |
| jaem | sorry | 04:48 |
| ShadowJK | done any math on how much 10W costs per year? | 04:48 |
| zakkm | oui | 04:49 |
| zakkm | i came here after calculations | 04:49 |
| zakkm | beagle is 2W on full load isnt it? | 04:49 |
| zakkm | thats what site said | 04:49 |
| zakkm | pay 9 cents a kWh here | 04:49 |
| zakkm | 10watts = a year.. is $7.89 | 04:50 |
| zakkm | GeneralAntilles: it would be for watching use , just like wget download + watching on 23" | 04:52 |
| zakkm | id have ipod touch for my portable use, like when im out and such | 04:52 |
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| dark | i forgot how i configure my maemo | 04:55 |
| zakkm | ? | 04:55 |
| dark | i had the sudo root | 04:55 |
| zakkm | maemo 4? | 04:56 |
| dark | i install rootsh | 04:56 |
| dark | yes | 04:56 |
| zakkm | can just type root, no sudo if i remember right | 04:56 |
| dark | yes | 04:56 |
| zakkm | what did you want to configure? | 04:56 |
| dark | bash2 | 04:56 |
| zakkm | root && apt-get install bash2 ? | 04:56 |
| pupnik | does that give me real find and other utils? | 04:57 |
| pupnik | i was scared to break busybox | 04:57 |
| pupnik | added own vi tho | 04:58 |
| * pupnik knocks on heads with a mallet | 04:58 | |
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| dark | i perform a hard reset | 04:59 |
| dark | before to do that | 04:59 |
| dark | when i was in terminal y type root and inmediatly have the bash2 and load my own alias | 04:59 |
| dark | now how i can configure these settings | 05:00 |
| dark | anyone can help | 05:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, the resolution issue is a big one. | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Atom is really the way to go. | 05:03 |
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| zakkm | GeneralAntilles: so power hungry though though , and thoes things have fans which annoy me so much | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wait for next gen. | 05:05 |
| zakkm | cause i have my pc in my room, currently about 10cm from my bed | 05:05 |
| zakkm | i wouldnt care about res so much | 05:05 |
| zakkm | even as i have it now its 1280x720 | 05:05 |
| zakkm | videos i watch dont go higher than that at all | 05:05 |
| ShadowJK | some of zotac's atom boards are passive, iirc | 05:05 |
| zakkm | my old one could be, powersupply took fan though | 05:06 |
| zakkm | right now i have a huge vendetta 2 fan :P | 05:06 |
| pupnik | can we please bury that zombie architecture | 05:06 |
| zakkm | http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/cooling/Best_CPU_Coolers_Q1-2008/OCZ_Vendetta_2_Front_Angle.jpg | 05:06 |
| zakkm | pupnik: atom? | 05:06 |
| ShadowJK | well you say you dont need much power yetyou overclock your PC with some monstrous cooler... | 05:07 |
| pupnik | x86 | 05:07 |
| zakkm | yeahh cause i did | 05:07 |
| zakkm | now i dont, so im looking at less power hungry options | 05:07 |
| zakkm | i used to need the cpu very high, not anymore | 05:07 |
| pupnik | now you get high, and a slow cpu seems fast? | 05:08 |
| zakkm | used to encode, use blender and maya, adobe after effects etc | 05:08 |
| pupnik | ahh ;) | 05:08 |
| zakkm | i needed the cpu high | 05:08 |
| zakkm | but now , i change my plans.. i just turning it into videowatching + some web | 05:08 |
| zakkm | and my pc is now way too power hungry ( ill be underclocking it tomorrow pretty much ) | 05:09 |
| zakkm | so im looking at less power hungry, and then i remmebered about beagle board and then im like omg i remember maemo 5 working on it a bit :P the oldd sdk | 05:09 |
| zakkm | so i came here | 05:09 |
| zakkm | would i be able to get maemo 5 working on the thing? | 05:10 |
| zakkm | lets say january/february | 05:10 |
| zakkm | with usb mouse and keyboard | 05:11 |
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| * timeless arrives @SFO | 05:19 | |
| timeless | zakkm: look into Mer | 05:19 |
| zakkm | no | 05:20 |
| zakkm | i wouldnt use Mer on a desktop | 05:20 |
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| ShadowJK | why not.. | 05:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless, welcome back. ;) | 05:20 |
| zakkm | no offense to Mer project, but i set my sights alot higher | 05:20 |
| zakkm | its not about OS | 05:20 |
| zakkm | and Mer is a OS | 05:20 |
| zakkm | i want a handheld device UI | 05:20 |
| zakkm | like android or maemo 5 | 05:20 |
| timeless | err | 05:20 |
| timeless | Mer is basically Mamo 5 ported to multiple devices | 05:21 |
| timeless | you're confusing Mer with Ubuntu | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, er, what? | 05:21 |
| ShadowJK | attempting to get maemo5 on beagleboard and you'll end up reinventing/recreating Mer anyway.. | 05:21 |
| zakkm | timeless: no im not, i used Mer | 05:21 |
| timeless | please excuse my typing, I'm watching a carousel in search of my luggage | 05:21 |
| zakkm | i used every single version of mer | 05:22 |
| zakkm | i used to have a nokia tablet | 05:22 |
| zakkm | i want the maemo 5 UI and everything.. the whole OS ... not just the packages and kernel and such | 05:22 |
| zakkm | im talking window manager and everything | 05:22 |
| timeless | Mer will have the maemo5 launcher and switchrr stuff if it doesn't already | 05:22 |
| ShadowJK | think that's in 17 | 05:23 |
| zakkm | 17 is fvwm isnt it? | 05:23 |
| timeless | iirc i'm running 15 | 05:23 |
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| zakkm | i want maemo 5 though, not Mer | 05:23 |
| timeless | so buy it from nokia | 05:24 |
| timeless | but you'll ave to wait in line like everyone else | 05:24 |
| zakkm | i dont want a n900 | 05:24 |
| lcuk | maemo 5 sdk + vnc + n810 == as good as possible today | 05:24 |
| zakkm | i dont want a n900, i couldnt even afford one | 05:25 |
| lcuk | maemo 5 sdk + vnc + laptop == as good as possible today | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, Mer aims to be as close to Maemo 5 as possible. | 05:25 |
| ShadowJK | and he wants it on his 1152p monitor :) | 05:25 |
| zakkm | im talking january too, not now | 05:25 |
| timeless | zakkm: then you have a problem | 05:25 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, he knows | 05:25 |
| zakkm | my 1152p monitor.. not at 1152p though | 05:25 |
| timeless | you're being unrealistic | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, apparently not. | 05:25 |
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| timeless | and somehow expecting better answers by asking repeatedly | 05:25 |
| zakkm | i know it does, but unless something changed from when i had my nokia, it went for a different approach | 05:25 |
| timeless | it doesn't work that way | 05:25 |
| zakkm | like v17 was for going for fvwm was it not? | 05:26 |
| ShadowJK | no it's going for the fremantle desktop | 05:26 |
| lcuk | zakkm, mer is seeking out the most optimal and straight forward open components to obtain the best experience possible | 05:26 |
| zakkm | its going for 100% maemo 5 look? | 05:26 |
| lcuk | its been patently clear to many people the ui has lagged, but its catching up :) | 05:26 |
| lcuk | afaik its aim is to use the themes | 05:27 |
| lcuk | which then sit on the same apps | 05:27 |
| ShadowJK | you can't get 100% without buying the n900 :) | 05:27 |
| timeless | presumably not nseries | 05:27 |
| zakkm | even before maemo 5, it left diablos ui and moved on to taskbar at top and such | 05:27 |
| zakkm | while i want 100% pure maemo 5 | 05:27 |
| lcuk | which is where m5 is | 05:27 |
| timeless | not that anyone in their right mind would use that theme | 05:27 |
| lcuk | mer was therefore ahead of maemo5 | 05:27 |
| * timeless uses digital nature | 05:27 | |
| lcuk | i use whatever the default was | 05:28 |
| lcuk | gah im not here tho | 05:28 |
| timeless | an sdk guy had one of the silver/chrome themes running | 05:28 |
| lcuk | ive got stuffs to do | 05:28 |
| zakkm | i cant afford a n900 | 05:28 |
| zakkm | i just want maemo 5 on a desktop coming out of my monitor , is that really that hard ? | 05:28 |
| zakkm | even with the beagle board running omap chip and such | 05:29 |
| lcuk | the paradign doesnt exactly work on a desktop | 05:29 |
| lcuk | panning with the mouse is silly when a wheel exists | 05:29 |
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| timeless | since no one can buy an n900 today | 05:29 |
| timeless | you need patience | 05:29 |
| timeless | asking repeatedly is already annoying us | 05:29 |
| zakkm | i know i need patience | 05:29 |
| zakkm | im also not asking now | 05:29 |
| zakkm | im asking like 4 months from now | 05:30 |
| zakkm | im future planning | 05:30 |
| timeless | we're collectively rather confident that Mer in January will fit your requuirements | 05:30 |
| ShadowJK | i dont think you can get your hands on all of the components that make up full maemo anyway, legally that is | 05:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo 5 UI on a desktop is inane. | 05:30 |
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| lcuk | it would look smart tbh | 05:30 |
| lcuk | it just wouldnt act well without a more desktop oriented wm | 05:30 |
| zakkm | i just want to get away from operating systems | 05:30 |
| ShadowJK | what | 05:31 |
| lcuk | take up gardening then | 05:31 |
| zakkm | lcuk: wall mounted desktop, i just want it for web + some video playback | 05:31 |
| zakkm | no i mean like i want just it working | 05:31 |
| zakkm | i want app manager, not apt-get'ing | 05:31 |
| lcuk | a wall mounted desktop would be a bit funny | 05:31 |
| ShadowJK | what. | 05:31 |
| lcuk | your pen would keep rolling off | 05:31 |
| timeless | bag snagged, time to use bart | 05:31 |
| timeless | bye | 05:32 |
| lcuk | cya timeless | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, Maemo is an OS. . . . | 05:32 |
| zakkm | i know | 05:32 |
| zakkm | but i mean | 05:32 |
| zakkm | i dont want a taskbar or anything | 05:32 |
| zakkm | like mer as it is now, its a OS in my opinion window manager and all | 05:32 |
| lcuk | zakkm, the touchbook is capable of being afixed to a fridge or wall | 05:32 |
| zakkm | maemo 5 as i see in videos, is different | 05:32 |
| lcuk | the maemo 5 videos you see are hand sized | 05:33 |
| zakkm | lcuk: already have my desktop wallmounted. | 05:33 |
| lcuk | and i agree, if that os existed i would like it | 05:33 |
| zakkm | yeah | 05:33 |
| ShadowJK | well, take any other desktop environment, remove the panel/taskbar, and only use alt-tab.. same thing | 05:33 |
| zakkm | but also dpi and such | 05:33 |
| lcuk | the groovy video track and full hand gestures would be cool | 05:33 |
| zakkm | every app is fullscrren, fits a certain amount | 05:33 |
| zakkm | theres no messing with apt-get or login or anything | 05:33 |
| lcuk | thats just a front end | 05:34 |
| zakkm | thats what i mean though | 05:34 |
| lcuk | the console is your entry point to another world | 05:34 |
| lcuk | and if a user wants it they can | 05:34 |
| lcuk | dont deny its existance tho | 05:34 |
| zakkm | i just trying to like uhh | 05:34 |
| lcuk | cos without that you wouldnt have pretty front end | 05:34 |
| zakkm | want a pc that just works, i just click web and goto facebook or something | 05:34 |
| zakkm | or click email and click inbox and it goes | 05:35 |
| zakkm | without worrying about updates or different programs or something | 05:35 |
| lcuk | apple | 05:35 |
| lcuk | updates you cant get away from | 05:35 |
| lcuk | but if you want an all in one nurtured experience go there | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, never used a Mac, have you? | 05:35 |
| ShadowJK | the email is handled by a program called modest, the browser is called microb,based on mozilla's gecko engine | 05:35 |
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| ShadowJK | they are different programs :) | 05:36 |
| lcuk | lol gen | 05:36 |
| lcuk | that obvious | 05:36 |
| zakkm | ShadowJK: yes but i will never know that, or need to know that | 05:36 |
| zakkm | im just trying to turn from a techy, to a casual user in a way | 05:36 |
| ShadowJK | the soulution is to get a PC and not fuck with it | 05:36 |
| lcuk | zakkm, what do you do | 05:36 |
| ShadowJK | or mac | 05:36 |
| zakkm | nothing? | 05:36 |
| lcuk | job | 05:36 |
| zakkm | web + IM | 05:36 |
| ShadowJK | just because you can break it doesn't mean you should try | 05:37 |
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| zakkm | cashier at a grocery store | 05:37 |
| zakkm | im not in the tech field | 05:37 |
| zakkm | nor do i plan to | 05:37 |
| * lcuk nods | 05:37 | |
| zakkm | was just a hobby | 05:37 |
| lcuk | then stick with the baseline windows mac systems and keep it clean | 05:38 |
| zakkm | i just think that if i could run pure maemo 5, okay maybe i cant but imaging it... i could just click web nad click mail and just do it, and leave | 05:38 |
| zakkm | thats why i installed mac in the first place | 05:38 |
| zakkm | it helped i swear, but i want more | 05:38 |
| zakkm | leaving linux/windows helped alot, but i want more | 05:38 |
| zakkm | and theres no point of mac, when all you do is surf a bit, and do Instant messenger | 05:38 |
| lcuk | hold on, you installed mac? | 05:39 |
| ShadowJK | hackintosh I guess | 05:39 |
| zakkm | yeah | 05:39 |
| lcuk | 90% of owning a mac is the buying experience | 05:39 |
| zakkm | i cant afford it | 05:39 |
| lcuk | and getting to dress up to go to the store | 05:39 |
| zakkm | i did build my pc though? | 05:39 |
| zakkm | gigabyte ep45-ud3l | 05:39 |
| lcuk | theres no going back for you im afraid | 05:39 |
| zakkm | haha | 05:40 |
| lcuk | you have built your own machine, have you ever compiled a kernel per chance? | 05:40 |
| zakkm | i cant overclock a real mac machine :P | 05:40 |
| zakkm | its a retail snow leopard disc, if that helps my case? | 05:40 |
| lcuk | no, when you know how to assemble a pc, you are lost | 05:40 |
| ShadowJK | get one of those multimedia keyboard with web and email buttons... | 05:41 |
| zakkm | heh | 05:41 |
| lcuk | and one of those humping dog usb drives! | 05:41 |
| zakkm | lcuk: my friend has two of those | 05:41 |
| ShadowJK | it's very likely it'd launch a more functional email program than modest | 05:41 |
| lcuk | why doesnt that surprise me | 05:41 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, i hate those keyboards | 05:42 |
| zakkm | he buys the weirdest stuff | 05:42 |
| lcuk | i physically remove the button from them | 05:42 |
| zakkm | and i have one of those keyboards already | 05:42 |
| lcuk | remove the shutdown/sleep buttons | 05:42 |
| zakkm | paid 5.99 for it | 05:42 |
| zakkm | i use it for volume, but thats all | 05:42 |
| lcuk | ive caught them and shutdown os once too often | 05:42 |
| ShadowJK | only gripe with mine is that it rearranged the pageup/pagedown key cluster.. rotated it 90 degrees and removed the insert key, making the delete key twice as big. | 05:42 |
| ShadowJK | I wired up the media keys to contro mplayer, and I find I'm using it alot :/ | 05:43 |
| lcuk | arghh | 05:43 |
| lcuk | the remaining keys gather dust | 05:43 |
| zakkm | heh | 05:43 |
| ShadowJK | it doesn't have any shutdown keys though | 05:43 |
| ShadowJK | and I haven't wired up the volume key or the app launcher keys to do anything | 05:43 |
| zakkm | what ever happened to good ole typewriters :D | 05:43 |
| lcuk | there was one keyboard that had a shutdown near the numlck | 05:43 |
| lcuk | ahhh ShadowJK thats not enough tho | 05:44 |
| lcuk | some oses configure them automagically | 05:44 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah I had one of those, it was a row above numlock iirc | 05:44 |
| zakkm | why dont you guys use wiimotes/ ps3 remotes ( both bluetooth ) | 05:44 |
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| lcuk | cos ive got an n900 | 05:44 |
| zakkm | see lucky | 05:44 |
| zakkm | i should of been invited hah | 05:44 |
| lcuk | and what would i use em for | 05:44 |
| zakkm | remote control | 05:44 |
| lcuk | even before i had this | 05:45 |
| lcuk | the wii mote was used perfectly | 05:45 |
| lcuk | for remote control for years i had an IR one that sat inline with my real keyboard | 05:45 |
| zakkm | as mouse? | 05:45 |
| lcuk | when that died, i wrote one (my first maemo app) in python | 05:45 |
| lcuk | no, i use a mouse for a mouse | 05:45 |
| zakkm | i use wiimote to control Boxee Media center on my mac | 05:45 |
| lcuk | it connected to a tiny little vb daemon on my desktop | 05:45 |
| lcuk | which does SendKeys to the media player | 05:46 |
| zakkm | wiimotes are bluetooth | 05:46 |
| lcuk | and works exactly as it should | 05:46 |
| lcuk | mines wifi | 05:46 |
| lcuk | i can control the tv from other countries | 05:46 |
| zakkm | oh wow | 05:46 |
| zakkm | heh | 05:46 |
| lcuk | very cool for pissing tracy off | 05:46 |
| zakkm | from other countries, howso? | 05:46 |
| lcuk | links to liquid.zapto.org ...port | 05:46 |
| zakkm | but how do you do tv part? | 05:47 |
| lcuk | mplayer | 05:47 |
| zakkm | you call mplayer tv? :P | 05:47 |
| lcuk | she watches tv and movies | 05:47 |
| lcuk | yeah why not | 05:47 |
| zakkm | i thought you meant like a real 27" CRT tv :P | 05:47 |
| lcuk | its a big screen | 05:47 |
| zakkm | thats why im like what the | 05:47 |
| ShadowJK | maybe his mplayer is playing up DVB-T streams.. | 05:47 |
| lcuk | same size as the tv downstairs | 05:47 |
| lcuk | lie in bed watching :) | 05:47 |
| zakkm | i know but it would of been more impressive if it was a TV, not a PC ;p | 05:48 |
| lcuk | tis good enough | 05:48 |
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| zakkm | thats why im like what the | 05:48 |
| lcuk | we used to output to the other screen | 05:48 |
| lcuk | all machines have tv out now | 05:48 |
| zakkm | most tvs have vga/dvi now ;p | 05:48 |
| lcuk | and theres dv in cards | 05:48 |
| ShadowJK | I recently encountered some "normal" people that had bought a computere buut no monitor. They linked it up to their big flatscreen TV, and used it and its DVB tuner instead of getting a regulat set-top box | 05:49 |
| lcuk | anyway, it works as is :) | 05:49 |
| ShadowJK | a cheap computer with decent sized harddrive is about same cost as a recording settop box apparently | 05:49 |
| lcuk | yeah tis | 05:49 |
| lcuk | no dual tuners tho | 05:49 |
| ShadowJK | sh | 05:49 |
| lcuk | everyone wants dual(triple) tuners now | 05:49 |
| ShadowJK | ah, didn't think of that | 05:49 |
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| zakkm | you install two tuners in the pc ;p | 05:50 |
| dark | anyone have the .bashrc file | 05:50 |
| lcuk | i wanna record simpsons whilst im watching futurama, the world might end | 05:50 |
| ShadowJK | I think last time I had my TV plugged in was January.. | 05:50 |
| zakkm | lcuk: yup :) | 05:50 |
| lcuk | anyway, i only got up for a glass of water | 05:50 |
| lcuk | back tomorrow sometime, off on a little mission | 05:50 |
| zakkm | as usual got sucked in by irc :D | 05:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5993 | 06:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's our old friend the application race bug again! | 06:19 |
| pupnik | hehe | 06:23 |
| pupnik | so that is the cause of frozen 2nd icons screen GeneralAntilles ? | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 06:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is another bug. | 06:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia's QA testers are the worst. | 06:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I doubt they could test their way out of a paper bag. | 06:24 |
| pupnik | you have a similar team under similar circumstances to compare them to? | 06:25 |
| pupnik | nevermind, rhetorical question | 06:26 |
| pupnik | what does that bug have to do with nokia's testers? is it not in their internal tracker? | 06:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apple. | 06:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, no, the amount of stuff they miss because the only "testing" they do seems to be on perfectly clean devices. | 06:27 |
| pupnik | ah | 06:34 |
| pupnik | so you mean they arent fixing bugs in our 3rd party apps? | 06:36 |
| pupnik | ir are 3rd party apps revealing bugs in system software | 06:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 06:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean that they never expose any edge cases. | 06:37 |
| pupnik | ah k | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | So they never experience a nearly full or full rootfs | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | they never push the envelope | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | So when real people use real devices | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | things fall to pieces | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because they didn't discover any of these bugs in their nice little cleanroom environment. | 06:38 |
| pupnik | perhaps they find as many bugs as they can deal with given the current methods | 06:39 |
| pupnik | the stuff you speak of is harder to find/id | 06:39 |
| pupnik | testing is experimenting | 06:39 |
| pupnik | i havent seen their internal bugtracker | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | It ridiculous the number of bugs we find in the public tracker that they never even imagined. | 06:42 |
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| pupnik | it's great! | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unfortunately because of how broken the process is it means that the bugs often take forever (or never) get fixed. | 06:43 |
| pupnik | i thought the delayed release was a testament to how productive this stage of testing has been | 06:43 |
| pupnik | but u know more i think | 06:44 |
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| pupnik | i thought it worked well but i installed too many things to try out | 06:46 |
| pupnik | then it got ugly :) | 06:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, we're better off than we were previously. | 06:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least we had an opportunity to get in there and help | 06:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's hardly a testament to the process | 06:47 |
| derf | GeneralAntilles: Developers can _never_ match the imagination of users. | 06:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ideally there would be no delay. :) | 06:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, hopefully the process will be open enough in the future for us to bring the imagination. ;) | 06:48 |
| pupnik | i just figured out that mesh networking is possible in devices with only one radio | 06:50 |
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| pupnik | sorta | 06:50 |
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| derf | GeneralAntilles: Given typical development schedules, you're lucky you got this much of a chance. | 06:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, sure, but one can always be optimistic. | 06:51 |
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| derf | I mean, in an ideal world, you would also have the ability to _fix_ the problems you discover now. | 06:52 |
| derf | Because, honestly, that's the only way something like this scales. | 06:53 |
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| qole | I thought someone would comment on my wide scrollbar hack... | 07:22 |
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| qole | maybe I should have posted it when there was no other conversation going on... | 07:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qole, maybe. | 07:26 |
| qole | The frustration of being on the west coast... I'm busy with family when everyone else is online, and when I'm free to chat, everyone else is in bed... | 07:26 |
| qole | http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/4066959248/ | 07:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Your tabs are still in the wrong spot. | 07:27 |
| qole | well there it is again... | 07:27 |
| qole | why are they in the wrong spot? | 07:27 |
| qole | I thought about moving them and decided to leave them like that, peeking out on the left side... | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4053628588/ | 07:28 |
| qole | there's just so little vert | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: that only works for about 5 channels | 07:29 |
| qole | vertical space on the Maemo screen... | 07:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't monitor many channels in my mobile personality. | 07:29 |
| qole | I only belong to one channel... | 07:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | /join #mer | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: I would eventually be using the same IRC session as my desktop. | 07:29 |
| zakkm | GeneralAntilles: you think i wouldnt be able to get maemo 5 going? in like 5 months from now or so? | 07:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Beagle should be running it mostly OK right now. | 07:30 |
| qole | I only use my desktop for processor and gpu intensive stuff these days... fps games, editing video... | 07:31 |
| zakkm | the main reason i want to buy it, dont want to buy it and then not work | 07:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then give it until January. | 07:31 |
| zakkm | kk :) | 07:31 |
| zakkm | thanks :D | 07:31 |
| qole | According to my gaming buddies, the N900's sound quality in Skype is not very good... | 07:32 |
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| qole | Skype on (Windows) PC sounds like you're all in the same room, N900 sounds like a cell phone. | 07:33 |
| pupnik | gizmo client can work with standard telco SIP? | 07:35 |
| pupnik | wheres a german who knows telcos | 07:35 |
| dmj7261 | how about skype linux pc? | 07:35 |
| pupnik | i think there are hardware sip / skype phones | 07:36 |
| qole | I can only comment on Windows PC because that's what we use when gaming... | 07:36 |
| pupnik | k | 07:36 |
| pupnik | so that yuv was really faster rendering for you too? | 07:36 |
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| qole | Gizmo is standard SIP... Gizmo client might have settings hardcoded... | 07:37 |
| pupnik | would be a bit of a pain | 07:37 |
| pupnik | ah | 07:37 |
| Macer | hm | 07:38 |
| Macer | cyanogen is better | 07:38 |
| Macer | but android still sucks heh | 07:38 |
| qole | Gizmo info for standard SIP client: 1747???????@proxy01.sipphone.com | 07:39 |
| qole | the ??????? is your Gizmo phone number | 07:40 |
| Macer | heh | 07:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, yes. | 07:41 |
| * ShadowJK has the same chats on his S60 phone and on his N810 as on PC.. almost.. about 5 of 35 that are only on PC | 07:46 | |
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| ShadowJK | 27 'tabs' in xchat to be precise.. using the tree view instead of tabs, and on the left. fits 26 before I have to scroll | 07:49 |
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| ShadowJK | (on N810) | 07:49 |
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| luke-jr | I'm in 38 channels atm | 07:52 |
| Davide | hi | 07:53 |
| cleary | I use quassel - 20 something channels, but it lets you configure "buffer view" | 07:53 |
| cleary | *views | 07:53 |
| cleary | so I have a buffer view for highlights | 07:53 |
| cleary | and a buffer view for all channels | 07:54 |
| cleary | I would love to see it on maemo 6 :) | 07:54 |
| Davide | does anyone know how a youtube client works? do they play a different file than the embedded one on the website? | 07:54 |
| ShadowJK | nope | 07:54 |
| Davide | Why do they look so much better in an N8X0 when played in the client as opposed to on the website? | 07:54 |
| ShadowJK | mplayer is better than adobe flash player | 07:55 |
| cleary | Davide: maybe the client defaults to HQ | 07:55 |
| Davide | cleary I mean in regards to choppyness | 07:55 |
| Davide | it's choppy in website it's perfectly smooth in client | 07:55 |
| dmj7261 | I would surmise a client is similar to how download helper finds the actual video file embedded in the flash | 07:55 |
| Davide | I guess ShadowJK gave the answer | 07:55 |
| ShadowJK | Yes, the HQ version doesn't play on N8x0 even with mplayer | 07:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Davide, MPlayer is more efficient at decoding flv than the Flash plugin. | 07:56 |
| dmj7261 | so it can ignore renderign the flash and just play the video file | 07:56 |
| dmj7261 | ...allows for more efficient rendering. | 07:56 |
| Davide | <-------- Dantonic, maybe on of you can answer that question in this thread :P http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=363476#post363476 | 07:57 |
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| Davide | some people mentioning how bad the "embedded" quality of youtube is on the N900 as compared to other phones | 07:57 |
| Davide | I guess that's because the other phones are playing from a client as opposed to embedded flash | 07:58 |
| ShadowJK | I imagine it'll be extremely slow if any zoomign in or out is used | 07:59 |
| Davide | <GeneralAntilles> Davide, MPlayer is more efficient at decoding flv than the Flash plugin. But don't those clients download an mp4 version of the file? Isn't that what gets saved if you "save" those videos to disk for example if using Mtube or Digia @scene | 08:04 |
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| ShadowJK | atleast mytube seems to use the standard quality file | 08:05 |
| RST38h | No they do not | 08:06 |
| RST38h | Also, I have no idea what those people meant: the quality is as shitty as on the desktop, no worse no better | 08:06 |
| ShadowJK | the framerate and jitter I imagine | 08:07 |
| RST38h | Have not noticed it | 08:07 |
| Davide | well yeah on linux youtube videos are a little choppy as well... on Ubuntu that is... | 08:07 |
| RST38h | But Youtube looks like shit no matter where you watch it | 08:07 |
| qole | n900 flash-embedded video is noticably choppier than a downloaded local file... | 08:07 |
| Davide | hi qole | 08:08 |
| RST38h | hmm | 08:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan's qolin'. . . . | 08:08 |
| ShadowJK | on N9x0 the flash player's memory usage grows linearly as the video plays, the device starts to swap, and frames start to drop... | 08:08 |
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| ShadowJK | n8x0 I mean | 08:08 |
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| Dantonic-2 | but isnt the video that gets downloaded an mp4 version? | 08:08 |
| ShadowJK | no | 08:09 |
| ShadowJK | what's this obsession with mp4 | 08:09 |
| Dantonic-2 | so it is just because the local player (in this case mplayer) is better at playing the file by itself | 08:09 |
| Dantonic-2 | no ShadowJK no obsession, just trying to understand how it works... | 08:09 |
| Dantonic-2 | I think maybe I read something about that somehwere | 08:09 |
| Dantonic-2 | that's why iwas suggesting it | 08:09 |
| qole | There must be little to no optimisation for video playback in N900's Adobe Flash plugin | 08:10 |
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| qole | It is ju | 08:10 |
| ShadowJK | MPlayer is better at playing it, plus MPlayer doesn't have to run an UI written in an interpreted language rendering vector graphics | 08:10 |
| qole | It is just the same as the N8x0 for quality... | 08:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, waiting patiently for Flash 10. . . . | 08:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did you guys see how smooth it was in the demo? | 08:11 |
| RST38h | that was a demo version =) | 08:11 |
| ShadowJK | it's always smooth in demos | 08:11 |
| * RST38h remembers the joke about the demo version of Hell | 08:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure, it's not gonna be that good. | 08:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | But just TRY going to http://nbc.com now. ;) | 08:12 |
| ShadowJK | heck, even on N8x0 it becomes smooth if you first ensure that there's more RAM free than the size of the video you are playing, and that everything you need is always in RAM also. | 08:12 |
| RST38h | General: I am somewhat afraid to go there from the desktop browser either | 08:12 |
| ShadowJK | this obviously puts a limit on the length of theh video, but that's fine for a demo :-) | 08:12 |
| RST38h | Even with AdBlock+ eating most of the visual crap | 08:12 |
| * qole is no good at patiently waiting for *anything* | 08:12 | |
| Dantonic-2 | ShadowJK, mind if I quote you in the forums? | 08:14 |
| RST38h | Oh. Downloads removes all screenshots every time a new version is promoted. | 08:15 |
| * RST38h sighs | 08:15 | |
| ShadowJK | dantonic: I don't think there's anything to add that hasn't already been mentioned in that thread | 08:18 |
| qole | Talking about youtube videos... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6DKLmjlzqA ;-) | 08:18 |
| ShadowJK | if you're tlaking about "Does the N900 playback video and Flash well or not?" | 08:18 |
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| qole | that was $30 worth of fireworks... $6 a minute? | 08:21 |
| Dantonic-2 | ShadowJK, what I wanted to clear up is the fact that the N900s embedded flash playing capability is being compared to other devices without flash playing youtube videos through a client. I wanted to make that distinction in defense of the N900. | 08:23 |
| Dantonic-2 | sicne the other devices like the G1 don't play embedded flash at all in the first place | 08:24 |
| Dantonic-2 | and the N900 can obviously play regular youtube videos through a client perfectly | 08:24 |
| dmj7261 | qole: was that recorded on an n900? | 08:24 |
| Dantonic-2 | just like my N800 can... | 08:24 |
| ShadowJK | yes that's an important distinction | 08:24 |
| Dantonic-2 | ShadowJK, would you care to comment in that thread? | 08:24 |
| ShadowJK | you've got all the info, why don't you do it | 08:25 |
| qole | Dantonic-2, that's a fair thing to do. The N8x0 did a great job with youtube videosx downloaded in mytube... | 08:25 |
| qole | dmj7261, no... | 08:25 |
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| Dantonic-2 | sure ShadowJK I was just asking if you mind that I quote you or just use that info... | 08:26 |
| Dantonic-2 | <qole> dmj7261, no... aw :( | 08:26 |
| qole | dmj7261, but this was recorded on an N900... http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole/4061851723/ | 08:26 |
| qole | I needed a very good video camera for the fireworks... Better than any cameraphone... | 08:27 |
| Dantonic-2 | what camera where you using for that? | 08:28 |
| qole | anyway, almost time for bed for me... | 08:28 |
| qole | for which? | 08:29 |
| Dantonic-2 | for the fireworks | 08:29 |
| Dantonic-2 | here's another N900 video sample not sure if you've seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK65dmo0es&feature=email | 08:29 |
| qole | I have a great little Sony handicam that has optical image stabilisation and really nice 30p recording | 08:30 |
| dmj7261 | that looks like acceptable quality. | 08:30 |
| dmj7261 | ...now I just need focus control and exposure control. | 08:31 |
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| qole | that one with the pumpkin shows all the problems of the N900's video recording... occasional pauses, bluish tinge to everything, slight flicker in bright areas... | 08:32 |
| Dantonic-2 | qole does it record on memory sticks? | 08:32 |
| qole | My handicam is primarily DV tape. | 08:32 |
| dmj7261 | the lighting wasn't blue? | 08:32 |
| qole | twilight outside | 08:33 |
| RST38h | bluish tinge is present in photos as well, if your lighting is not very bright | 08:33 |
| RST38h | yea, twilight leads to it | 08:33 |
| dmj7261 | ah...any way to fix that in the device? | 08:34 |
| RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33834 <=== Hehe, join date: Nov 2009 | 08:34 |
| qole | I find the best white balance on N900 for all outdoor situations is "cloudy" | 08:34 |
| RST38h | it gets bluish even when set to cloudy | 08:35 |
| qole | yeah but warmer than "sunny" | 08:35 |
| RST38h | true | 08:35 |
| qole | this one was so colourful and vibrant in "real life" ... bright sunny day, dazzling yellow leaves... http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole/4061728151/ | 08:37 |
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| RST38h | umgh. | 08:38 |
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| RST38h | funny, I have got a few exactly like that | 08:39 |
| RST38h | park, golden leaves, kids | 08:39 |
| RST38h | all of them came out in similar bluish color | 08:39 |
| dmj7261 | So the video quality leaves something to be desired? | 08:43 |
| dmj7261 | Does the video capture stutter or is it just flash being evil? | 08:44 |
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| dmj7261 | I'm also a little concerned about the capture rate. | 08:45 |
| qole | the video capture stutters. Big disappointment. Hopefully the final firmware fixes this. The Maemo guys were aware of the problem... | 08:45 |
| dmj7261 | It would be nice if I could capture 30fps at 480 | 08:45 |
| ShadowJK | does it stutter any less at lower resolutions? | 08:45 |
| dmj7261 | so there's no way to capture smooth video? | 08:45 |
| ShadowJK | like 640x480 instead of 808 or whatever x 480 | 08:45 |
| RST38h | qole: tried raising process priority? | 08:46 |
| qole | The Maemo camera guys said that only the phone was allowed "officially" to take the top spot on the process pile, but they hoped that would change soon and video recording would be allowed to renice everything too. | 08:47 |
| ShadowJK | is it really a CPU issue? | 08:47 |
| qole | I haven't tried manually renicing, no, but it is better if all other apps are closed. Still not perfect tho. | 08:48 |
| qole | I won't slag it any more until sales start and I get final firmware. If it still sucks, I will be complaining the loudest. | 08:49 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 08:49 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, what res video capture was/is possible on N8x0 I wonder | 08:49 |
| qole | anyway goodnight all. | 08:50 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 08:55 | |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: nothing worth saving | 09:19 |
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| johnx | mornin' | 09:21 |
| Stskeeps | morn john | 09:21 |
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| johnx | I'm beginning to think that I actually can't use my speakers/soundcard and my wireless card at the same time | 09:24 |
| johnx | this is so very 1999 | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | lol | 09:24 |
| timeless | half duplex :) | 09:25 |
| johnx | luke-jr, you'll love this part. they both have totally free drivers, but the closed source wifi drivers don't seem to exhibit the problem (or at least deal with it better) | 09:25 |
| luke-jr | johnx: sounds like Atheros | 09:26 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, wow. good call :) | 09:26 |
| johnx | it's probably some hardware problem in all reality | 09:26 |
| johnx | think I'll go and pick up a usb wifi dongle and hang it about 12' away from the actual computer | 09:27 |
| luke-jr | lol | 09:27 |
| johnx | luke-jr, did you have an atheros too at some point? | 09:28 |
| luke-jr | old old work laptop | 09:29 |
| luke-jr | athNk was JUST written when I got rid of it | 09:29 |
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| johnx | it got better...but I think there is some hardware problem at play that didn't get taken into account in the open HAL or something | 09:32 |
| johnx | bleh. and again my ping goes through the roof | 09:32 |
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| Captain_Picard | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YhiZ7LpqPE In Russia even river can be a road | 09:39 |
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| Dantonic-2 | Captain_Picard, LOL | 09:49 |
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| Captain_Picard | http://englishrussia.com/?p=5750 top counter-strike players are put to a challenge :p *nsfw* | 09:53 |
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| JoeBrain | ? | 09:54 |
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| tigert | morning | 10:05 |
| thux | morning | 10:05 |
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| dmj7261 | tigert: I've been hearing that the n900 has video stuttering. This worries me a bit. | 10:09 |
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| dmj7261 | (in the camera) | 10:09 |
| thux | irc instructions gives parameter -min for list command but irssi doesn't reconize -min parameter, any way to reduce /list output in maemo irssi? | 10:09 |
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| tigert | dmj7261: the software is not final | 10:15 |
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| dmj7261 | yeah, I hope that it can do smooth full resolution video at 30fps when it's released. | 10:16 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:21 |
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| elysion | anyone here tried to build qt 4.6 fremantle branch? | 10:27 |
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| RST38h | reMOO | 10:32 |
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| mtnman | hello | 10:54 |
| mtnman | anybody home? | 10:54 |
| johnx | I'm home | 10:54 |
| johnx | are you? | 10:54 |
| * mtnman is at ~ | 10:54 | |
| johnx | wow! me too | 10:55 |
| johnx | crazy | 10:55 |
| mtnman | heheh | 10:55 |
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| mtnman | johnx on which device do you run maemo? | 10:55 |
| johnx | n800, a borrowed n810 and a pre-production n900 | 10:55 |
| mtnman | nice how is the 900? | 10:55 |
| johnx | it's pretty rockin' | 10:56 |
| mtnman | how about the 810? | 10:57 |
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| johnx | (the n900's) biggest weakness is battery life. gets through a day of medium to high usage with a little extra power, but it wouldn't go two days the way i use it | 10:57 |
| johnx | the n810...meh. I like my n800 better than the n810 | 10:57 |
| KMFDM | yeah i charge my n900 daily | 10:57 |
| KMFDM | otherwise it is dead | 10:57 |
| mtnman | why is that? i have been looking pretty hard at the 810 | 10:57 |
| * RST38h plugs it in when he gets to work | 10:58 | |
| johnx | I like the sd slots. I like the d-pad on the face | 10:58 |
| mtnman | d-pad? | 10:58 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah the usb charger is handy | 10:58 |
| johnx | directional pad (aka arrow keys) | 10:58 |
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| mtnman | ah | 10:58 |
| KMFDM | i just charge mine every evening after work | 10:58 |
| johnx | and I've gotten fast enough at the onscreen soft keyboard that the n810's keyboard isn't a huge improvement | 10:59 |
| johnx | the n900's keyboard is a lot better than the n810's | 10:59 |
| mtnman | is the d-pad on the 800 that much better than the one on the 810? | 11:00 |
| timeless_mbp | the n810's isn't available by default | 11:00 |
| johnx | not much, but the placement is better in my opinion | 11:00 |
| timeless_mbp | you have to slide out the keyboard | 11:00 |
| johnx | the d-pads are both pretty bad | 11:00 |
| * mtnman wonders how importand a d-pad is on a device with a touch screen | 11:00 | |
| johnx | (again, the n900's arrow keys are a step up) | 11:01 |
| johnx | mtnman, do you ever plan to use it without looking at the screen? | 11:01 |
| mtnman | johnx not following you | 11:01 |
| johnx | playing music maybe? | 11:01 |
| mtnman | ah ok i see what you mean | 11:02 |
| johnx | :) | 11:02 |
| johnx | you never think about it until you suddenly don't have hardware buttons | 11:02 |
| mtnman | i was reading that the latest maemo will only run on the 900 | 11:02 |
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| johnx | that's the only platform nokia will support | 11:02 |
| johnx | and fore sure it needs an omap3 or better to really shine | 11:02 |
| mtnman | and what about mer? | 11:02 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia doesn't sell mer | 11:03 |
| SpeedEvil | mer runs on anything. | 11:03 |
| johnx | well, a maemo5 equivalent version of mer is on the 800/810 already, but we're waiting on 3d drivers | 11:03 |
| SpeedEvil | (that you can convince it to run on) | 11:03 |
| johnx | "mer runs where ubuntu runs" is probably the right way to look at it | 11:04 |
| mtnman | have you been runnning mer on the 810? | 11:04 |
| mtnman | how does it perform? | 11:04 |
| RST38h | johnx: I would prefer a standard 3.5mm plug | 11:04 |
| RST38h | absolutely no interest in USB charging | 11:05 |
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| johnx | RST38h, I work in iphone land. plenty of usb chargers lying around to hijack :) | 11:05 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:05 |
| johnx | mtnman, performs? pretty well. is it finished and polished and ready for non-hackers to use? not yet | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: sadly the EU demanded a standard charger plug | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | thankfully it's basically the usb plug | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | so nokia was oddly ahead of that curve | 11:06 |
| SpeedEvil | sadly, in some ways. | 11:06 |
| * SpeedEvil wants a proper connector. | 11:06 | |
| johnx | will mer ever perform on the n8x0 the way maemo5 does on the n900? no. | 11:06 |
| mtnman | johnx what problems have you run into? i'm seriously considering an 810 | 11:06 |
| SpeedEvil | (though it could have been worse) | 11:06 |
| johnx | mtnman, I'm a mer hacker, sooo...kind of a biased source :) | 11:07 |
| mtnman | johnx tell me the problems people are encountering with mer on the 810 please (i know its difficult to discuss shortcomings! :D) | 11:08 |
| johnx | if you think you're going to be a "user" of mer on the n810, you might want to wait a bit. if you think you want to help us hack, we'd love to have you. if you really want maemo5 on something that just works ASAP, order yourself an n900 | 11:08 |
| mtnman | johnx i am not a code hacker, but i could be a good tester/bug reporter | 11:08 |
| TomaszD | I had a lightning talk about mer from a user perspective, slides are available | 11:09 |
| johnx | mtnman, problems right now? no 3D driver (coming), no sound (waiting on the guy hacking on pulse-dsp), power savings is not there yet, all the maemo4/5 apps aren't there yet, no gps yet | 11:09 |
| TomaszD | you might want to check that | 11:09 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: no phone. :) | 11:09 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: how badly is power saving not there? | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: elmarco actually showed up the other day (pulse dsp) | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: are you using an en??1 package? :) | 11:10 |
| mtnman | johnx no sound is a deal-breaker. the two top apps i am interested in are a browser and voip (gizmo?) | 11:10 |
| mtnman | and music playing... | 11:10 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, first time I've sat at my comp all weekend...sooo, not yet. how's it looking? | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | people seem relatively happy w/ it | 11:10 |
| johnx | mtnman, how do you feel about maemo4? | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | i have to fix chess | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and i need to get whatever strings have been added | 11:11 |
| mtnman | johnx will i really don't know anything about it | 11:11 |
| timeless_mbp | please install and collect your thoughts while i sleep | 11:11 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I think I saw him, now that you mention it | 11:11 |
| mtnman | i would imagine for browser/voip/music/etc maemo4 is the ticket for the 810. | 11:12 |
| johnx | SpeedEvil, we don't test all the time, but my gut feeling is that we need to find some way to get powertop or similar running to see what's actually keeping it awake | 11:12 |
| johnx | it definitely gets warmer idling than in maemo4 (in my case at least) | 11:12 |
| johnx | mtnman, for now: yes | 11:12 |
| mtnman | is maemo4 lacking in any major departments? | 11:13 |
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| johnx | if you're happy using maemo4 and helping to test (or maybe do a little hacking) on mer, you'll feel right at home | 11:13 |
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| johnx | mtnman, maemo4 lacks nice cross sdk or the ability to build most apps natively | 11:13 |
| johnx | some people build simple apps natively, but nothing that links against gtk would build on device | 11:13 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: or jam a shim into the battery case, and a multimeter. | 11:13 |
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| mtnman | is it reasonable to set up an 810 for dual boot? (mamemo4/mer) | 11:14 |
| johnx | mtnman, very painless | 11:14 |
| johnx | dual boot from sd is the way to go for mer testing | 11:14 |
| mtnman | seperate sd card for mer? | 11:14 |
| johnx | that's easiest | 11:14 |
| johnx | you can partition it out | 11:14 |
| johnx | I go maemo4 on the internal flash and mer on sd | 11:14 |
| mtnman | how big an sd card can the 810 recognize? | 11:15 |
| johnx | biggest microSDHC you can find | 11:15 |
| mtnman | nice, i had read somewhere that is was limited to 8gb | 11:15 |
| johnx | that's the biggest size available when it was launched | 11:15 |
| johnx | so that's what Nokia put on the package, since they hadn't tested with 16GB/32GB cards | 11:16 |
| mtnman | and that above a certain size it has to be a particular model/brand of card | 11:16 |
| johnx | I haven't heard that | 11:16 |
| mtnman | oh good | 11:16 |
| johnx | (not saying it isn't true) | 11:16 |
| mtnman | tell me why you prefer the 800 over the 810. | 11:16 |
| johnx | d-pad on front, slightly better d-pad in general, 2 full size sd slots, mini-b usb, solid chunk of indestructable plastic | 11:17 |
| mtnman | if its not too much trouble | 11:17 |
| mtnman | i would imagine less expensive to purchase as well | 11:17 |
| johnx | to be fair, I've spent a lot more time with the n800 than the n810, and thus am more used to it | 11:18 |
| mtnman | perhaps also a bit lighter | 11:18 |
| johnx | meh. not a big deal to me (or very noticeable) | 11:18 |
| johnx | though the n900 totally outclasses both of them... | 11:19 |
| mtnman | the 900 looks sweet, but its beyond my budgetary constraints | 11:19 |
| johnx | if it's not even in your price range, I can totally understand :) | 11:19 |
| johnx | yeah, been there | 11:19 |
| johnx | do you have a phone with data plan to pair the n8x0 to? or planning to use wifi? | 11:20 |
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| mtnman | i don't think it would be wise to spend ~$600 on something that will live in my pocket while skiing all winter | 11:20 |
| mtnman | i was planning on wifi | 11:20 |
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| johnx | plan to do much IM/IRC with it? | 11:20 |
| mtnman | yes | 11:21 |
| johnx | yeah, that's where the keyboard becomes useful | 11:21 |
| mtnman | yeah and ssh | 11:21 |
| johnx | the onscreen is good for everything except IM/term usage | 11:21 |
| mtnman | xterm is my most used app on my linux boxen | 11:21 |
| johnx | yeah, nice to have ssh in your pocket, but maemo doesn't have quite the selection of CLI apps that a desktop distro does | 11:22 |
| mtnman | mutt? sirc? | 11:22 |
| johnx | I think yes and ... i dunno | 11:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | ssh + screen + ircii/epic/whatever | 11:23 |
| johnx | google: maemo <appname> | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't want those things running on your cellular device | 11:23 |
| johnx | yeah, a cheap shell account is a wonderful thing | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | $0 is my friend | 11:23 |
| mtnman | which things? | 11:23 |
| * timeless_mbp has um... 4 or 5? | 11:23 | |
| johnx | mtnman, things that hold open connections and keep the CPU awake | 11:24 |
| mtnman | well the 810 isn't a cellular device | 11:24 |
| mtnman | so no problem there | 11:24 |
| johnx | mtnman, even running them over wifi for extended periods while the device idles will hurt battery life | 11:24 |
| mtnman | i suppose that is true. | 11:25 |
| johnx | it'll prevent the device from being able to go to the lowest power modes for the CPU and wifi chipset | 11:25 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, for my $8/month I get a nice xen slice with fan-freakin-tastic connectivity | 11:25 |
| johnx | and it's not tied to work, so no conflict of interest/IP stupidity | 11:25 |
| mtnman | are there any killer features in mameo5 that i will miss if i'm using maemo4? | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | well, i have shells from a college friend, a guy who helped me do mozilla work, mozilla itself, and a mozilla admin who wants my non mozilla stuff off the mozilla box :) | 11:26 |
| johnx | a neat-o 3D desktop, future app development, better PIM, better IM, better email, better browsing | 11:26 |
| johnx | it's evolutionary, but it's a *big* evolution | 11:27 |
| johnx | and the hardware is there too | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | better pim? | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | the n8x0 didn't have a pim! | 11:27 |
| johnx | any PIM? | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | integrated skype | 11:28 |
| johnx | well, there was GPE/pimlico/other stuff...but the n900's is very nicely integrated in a way that maemo4's wasn't | 11:28 |
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| lbt | mtnman: so what do you want to use it for? | 11:28 |
| mtnman | how compatible will data be between maemo4/mer? | 11:28 |
| johnx | data? | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | mtnman: data? | 11:28 |
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| * timeless_mbp pokes johnx | 11:29 | |
| timeless_mbp | install my packages already ;-) | 11:29 |
| mtnman | well i was thinking about the pim for example | 11:29 |
| lbt | not so much | 11:29 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, working on mer h-i-m. you have enough testers | 11:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | mtnman: so, that's an unfair question | 11:29 |
| johnx | mtnman, if you use 3rd-party PIM on maemo4, then use the same one on maemo5, then yess | 11:29 |
| mtnman | lbt i plan to use it for browsing, email, music/video | 11:30 |
| mtnman | also ssh | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | how compatible do products which technically compete in a space but don't care about eachother have to me? | 11:30 |
| johnx | the n900 is better in all of those areas except replacement cost | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | typed browser urls from the n8x0 should be retained in the n900 | 11:30 |
| mtnman | johnx also intitial cost | 11:30 |
| lbt | Mer is aiming to be maemo5 compatible | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | but most people don't try to restore backups across device models | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | we do try to support such things at times | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | but it isn't a high priority | 11:31 |
| lbt | so mer/diablo interchange using maemo apps is less likely in dual boot | 11:31 |
| mtnman | how does the 810 do on music/video? | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine hypothetically that there were 10 n800s sold and 10 n810s | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | and imagine we hoped to sell 100 n900s | 11:31 |
| johnx | mtnman, it does music fine, and it does video ok if you re-encode it | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | is supporting migrating data from those 20 n8x0's a critical task? | 11:32 |
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| mtnman | johnx: re-encode to what standard? | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | in general you don't have that much data that you couldn't recreate or reimport | 11:32 |
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| johnx | 400x240, xvid <800kb/s, mp3 audio, 44100kHz | 11:32 |
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| mtnman | well i'm leaning towards the 810. any other suggestions for something in the same price range? | 11:33 |
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| johnx | an android phone maybe, just for a fun comparison? | 11:34 |
| johnx | that's about the only thing I can think of with the same polish | 11:34 |
| * mtnman is staying the hell away from android | 11:34 | |
| lbt | if you want ssh then 810 is a good idea | 11:34 |
| johnx | if you can convince yourself to spring for an n900 and a hard case of some sort, I think you might be happier 6 months from now | 11:35 |
| lbt | also we hope the 810 will have life with Mer (as you know) | 11:35 |
| johnx | if you're thinking of your n810 as disposable, then you'll probably be perfectly happy | 11:35 |
| lbt | 900 fits in my ski jacket pocket | 11:35 |
| mtnman | johnx yeah i'm sure i would be happier right off the bat, but the price is just too high for me right now | 11:36 |
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| johnx | lbt, I think he's worried about using his $650 phone to cushion his fall :> | 11:36 |
| lbt | plus it acts like an airbag... | 11:36 |
| lbt | the "spike in the steering wheel" approach... | 11:36 |
| mtnman | lbt i'm not worried about it fitting in my jacket, i'm worried about what it will look like when i take it out | 11:36 |
| johnx | mtnman, walk up the mountain instead of paying for the lift ticket? :D | 11:36 |
| lbt | you sure ain't falling with that in your pocket!!!! | 11:36 |
| mtnman | johnx i work for the ski hill so i don't pay for my pass | 11:37 |
| lbt | groomers never looked so good | 11:37 |
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| lbt | mtnman: which hill? | 11:37 |
| mtnman | jackson hole mtn resort | 11:37 |
| lbt | heh | 11:37 |
| lbt | N810 | 11:38 |
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| lbt | do you hang out on Epic? | 11:38 |
| mtnman | maybe i can get an 810 to last long enough for the price on the 900 to come down | 11:38 |
| mtnman | epic? | 11:38 |
| johnx | aaah, then work more days and put the n900 on credit for now ;) Really though, you'll probably like the n810 a lot for what it is, and there really will be more life in it yet | 11:38 |
| lbt | no then | 11:38 |
| lbt | similar nick is all http://www.epicski.com/ | 11:39 |
| johnx | yeah, I have a feeling the price on the n900 will be more reasonable by the time you're done skiing this season | 11:39 |
| mtnman | johnx well all of my harware is pretty old | 11:39 |
| johnx | mtnman, my desktop is too, but the hardware in the embedded space is moving like desktop hardware was in the late 90's/early 00's | 11:40 |
| * mtnman squeezes life out of hardware that others discard | 11:40 | |
| mtnman | i have read that mer also runs on non-nokia handhelds. any experience there? | 11:41 |
| lbt | Q5/Q7 | 11:41 |
| lbt | but they are a *lot* less robust | 11:41 |
| johnx | yup. the experience is that it works best on devices with at least 128MB of RAM | 11:41 |
| samad | hello all | 11:41 |
| mtnman | johnx the 810 has 128 correct? | 11:42 |
| lbt | we have some android phone devs but nothing definite yet | 11:42 |
| johnx | ...and if you're expecting to get the cool 3D goodies from the maemo5-style desktop, you need 3D hardware | 11:42 |
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| johnx | mtnman, correct. n800 has the same mainboard (minus the GPS) | 11:42 |
| mtnman | eye candy isn't a big concern here as much as functionality | 11:42 |
| samad | could anybody help me what is the argument name gst_pipeline_new( ? ); | 11:42 |
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| johnx | mtnman, it's more than just candy...i was actually surprised that they balanced the fancy effects vs actual improved usability | 11:44 |
| mtnman | johnx does the 810 not have 3d hardware? | 11:44 |
| johnx | it has 3D hardware a generation older than the N900's | 11:44 |
| johnx | and we're *hoping* it'll be enough for the maemo5 style desktop with toned down effects (read: no effects) | 11:44 |
| johnx | but ... we have no idea | 11:45 |
| mtnman | its hard tellin, not knowin... | 11:45 |
| johnx | the 3D drivers were held up for years, and they're finally "two weeks away" | 11:45 |
| mtnman | hahah | 11:45 |
| johnx | well the answer was "no" for the first year and a half | 11:45 |
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| johnx | so it's a huge improvement, and quite the gesture of goodwill as Nokia is just about ready to EOL the N810 | 11:46 |
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| mtnman | so the drivers are coming from nokia or from the mer devs? | 11:46 |
| mtnman | eol=affordable | 11:47 |
| johnx | from the providers of the 3D chipset (TI) and the holders of the 3D chipset IP (silicon image?), by virtue of being poked by Nokia and also because the TI/SI guys are pretty cool too | 11:47 |
| mtnman | maybe the engineers are, but i just read something recently about TI (iirc) suing calculator modders or something like that | 11:48 |
| johnx | yeah, and on desktop hardware, EOL=great time to buy, but development will quickly swing to maemo5, and there will be a period where maemo4 is a little lonely I think until mer comes up to speed | 11:48 |
| johnx | mtnman, always remember that companies are collections of people. I had a big problem understanding Nokia until I realized that | 11:49 |
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| mtnman | johnx i guess if i don't need bells/whistles, just browser/email/music/video i think maemo4 will be ok for me | 11:50 |
| mtnman | oh and ssh... | 11:50 |
| johnx | yeah. you'll probably love it to bits. :) especially now that I've set your expectations properly :> | 11:50 |
| mtnman | at least until mer is up to speed | 11:50 |
| lbt | heh | 11:50 |
| lbt | I started the Karmic stream at the weekend | 11:51 |
| mtnman | which voip apps seem to work well? any sip clients? | 11:51 |
| johnx | lbt, thank you! \o/ | 11:51 |
| johnx | mtnman, gizmo/skype available and sip built in | 11:52 |
| lbt | johnx: doesn't build anything yet... working on it | 11:52 |
| johnx | gizmo has video support. I think sip does too? | 11:52 |
| lbt | Karmic won't build i586 "less" yet | 11:52 |
| mtnman | gizmo available for mameo4? | 11:52 |
| johnx | mtnman, it sure is :) | 11:53 |
| mtnman | gizmo _is_ a sip client afaik | 11:53 |
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| johnx | yeah, but just saying there's one built-in as well | 11:53 |
| * lbt thinks twinkle may be worth a look | 11:53 | |
| mtnman | ah | 11:53 |
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| mtnman | well for $230 it seems like i'll get a fair bit of utility from an 810 | 11:54 |
| johnx | hmm...wonder how it'll cope with the weather up there... | 11:55 |
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| mtnman | well my cheapo nokia phone never had a problem | 11:55 |
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| mtnman | any comments on the 810's camera? | 11:56 |
| samad | gst_pipeline_new (const gchar *name); plz suggest me what is the parameter name | 11:56 |
| johnx | mtnman, it's crap. in a well lit room it's barely passable for video chat | 11:57 |
| timeless_mbp | samad: ask mxr.maemo.org ? | 11:57 |
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| mtnman | how about for outdoor photography/videography? | 11:57 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/ident?i=gst_pipeline_new | 11:57 |
| johnx | the GPS is pretty lame too, but the side of a mountain would probably be perfect conditions for it :) | 11:57 |
| samad | thanks | 11:57 |
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| johnx | mtnman, forget the camera exists | 11:58 |
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| mtnman | ok then. i'm not super concerned about gps, i have a garmin for when i really need gps. | 11:58 |
| johnx | good plan | 11:58 |
| johnx | do not stake your life on the n810's GPS or your photography career on its camera. | 11:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | indeed | 11:59 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i wouldn't recommend staking your life on the n900's GPS either | 11:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | johnx: did you see my geotagged photo from the n900? | 11:59 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, where did it place you? | 12:00 |
| mtnman | i wouldn't stake my life on any gps. i never seem to get a good signal when i really need it. | 12:00 |
| timeless_mbp | 104 deg North latitude roughly | 12:00 |
| johnx | actually, I think I was on when you were mumbling about :) | 12:00 |
| timeless_mbp | use picasa 3.5 to see it on a map :) | 12:00 |
| johnx | mtnman, if you have trouble getting a fix on a dedicated garmin outdoors gps, then I can say with relative confidence that you will never see the n810 lock during the entire time you own it | 12:01 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/20090927_017.jpg | 12:01 |
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| mtnman | ok thanks for all the info. seems like the 810 will fit the bill for my modest needs | 12:02 |
| tbf | mnurmi: johnx: http://gpsinformation.net/main/slowlock.htm | 12:03 |
| johnx | yup. glad you asked about the camera/gps. lots of people get carried away by false hope and really get brought down when they go to use those features | 12:03 |
| tbf | seems the n900 has only one (or few) receivers... | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 12:03 |
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| mtnman | i never expect much from a camera or gps from an integrated device | 12:04 |
| tbf | ...so you probably have to give it at least 30 seconds without much movement to give a lock... | 12:04 |
| johnx | mtnman, well, in this case, forget they're even there | 12:04 |
| mtnman | tbf i'm looking at the 810 not the 900 | 12:04 |
| tbf | mtnman: same thing applies there i guess | 12:05 |
| mtnman | tbf well if they have the same gps, i would guess so. | 12:05 |
| johnx | tbf, the n810's GPS has serious issues | 12:05 |
| tbf | mtnman: unless your device didn't get a full GPS message from for satellites you won't get a lock | 12:05 |
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| mtrlt | a-gps helps a lot | 12:05 |
| tbf | mtnman: problem is that for whatever reason a full message takes at least 30 seconds to be received | 12:05 |
| tbf | mtnman: seems GPS was not really designed for real world | 12:06 |
| johnx | for some reason I thought I heard that the N810's GPS antenna ended up with a shield over it due to FCC/CE regulations or something silly like that | 12:06 |
| RST38h | johnx: just rumors afaik | 12:06 |
| RST38h | johnx: it is at the top left, no shielding there | 12:06 |
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| johnx | FWIW, the N900's ability to get a lock is almost magical compared to the N810 | 12:07 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Try getting a lock without network connection | 12:07 |
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| johnx | RST38h, I will at some point | 12:07 |
| RST38h | johnx: Then you will ask for your n810 back | 12:07 |
| vesa | atleast the n900 with ecoach works very well. fire it up inside, tuck in pocket, go run. it gets the fix after a very short time of being outdoors and records from there. | 12:07 |
| johnx | RST38h, ah, really? that's too bad | 12:07 |
| RST38h | johnx: And there is a bug for that =) | 12:08 |
| * johnx sighs | 12:08 | |
| tbf | hmm. crap. now i really start to wonder how many GPS receivers the N810 and N900 have | 12:08 |
| * mtnman yawns | 12:08 | |
| RST38h | One each. Next question? | 12:08 |
| mtnman | tbf: *antennae | 12:08 |
| tbf | if it really would be only one, you'd need not only 30 seconds, but full 2 minutes without any movement to get a lock | 12:08 |
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| tbf | no idea. | 12:09 |
| mtnman | tbf even my garmin takes a while to lock | 12:09 |
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| RST38h | N810 GPS chip: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4663&navigationId=12607&templateId=6123 | 12:09 |
| johnx | mtnman, a while as in seconds, minutes, hours or days? | 12:09 |
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| tbf | mtnman: well, see above. freaking 30 seconds per message | 12:09 |
| mtnman | i would guess at least a minute or two | 12:09 |
| ccooke | Morning, all | 12:09 |
| tbf | mtnman: and now imagine a car passes you or something else disorts your initial GPS message | 12:09 |
| johnx | mtnman, yeah, that's why I told you not to get too excited about the N810's GPS :) think hours or longer in some situations, even outdoors with little movement | 12:10 |
| samad | gst_pipeline_new (char *name); , name = "pipeline" , "app" , "pipe" , NULL which is valid for camera implementation | 12:10 |
| RST38h | Don't scare him, it does not take hours | 12:10 |
| RST38h | 5 minutes it may take | 12:10 |
| mtnman | yeah well, as i said, gps is not what i need a pocket computer for. | 12:11 |
| johnx | RST38h, you're right. if it takes longer than 30 minutes it won't lock at all in that location | 12:11 |
| tbf | i wonder if the internal GPS and a bluetooth GPS could be asked to cooperate for getting a lock | 12:12 |
| johnx | tbf, my feeling is, if you get a bt GPS you'd just disable the internal GPS and be perfectly happy | 12:12 |
| tbf | johnx: could be. | 12:13 |
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| * mtnman thinks johnx is on the mark regarding bt gps | 12:13 | |
| lardman | morning | 12:13 |
| johnx | it'd be a neat hack for sure, but I don't think you gain much by having both on, and I don't think you can even feed the internal GPS any info that would help it significantly, except for almanac data (AFAIK), which is already done | 12:13 |
| johnx | hey lardman. were you looking at emerillon map viewer? | 12:14 |
| mtnman | is it possible to turn off the internal gps to save power? | 12:14 |
| petur | I find that the n810 gps does take quite some time to get a lock, but is good at holding on to it afterwards. I just put it in my pocket and it keeps tracking... | 12:14 |
| johnx | mtnman, yup | 12:14 |
| johnx | petur, generally my experience too. but a dedicated BT GPS is worlds better in both categories, from experience using both | 12:15 |
| petur | sure, the BT gps was build to be a reliable source for navigation purposes.... | 12:15 |
| mtnman | any dedicated device will usually work better than a combo device | 12:15 |
| petur | the n810 gps is just a toy | 12:15 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, gst_pipeline_new (char *name); , name = "pipeline" , "app" , "pipe" , NULL which is valid for camera implementation | 12:16 |
| johnx | petur, my feeling too. some people didn't understand that going in though | 12:16 |
| johnx | mtnman, yup. but some combo devices work better than others ;) | 12:16 |
| mtnman | i wouldn't trust gps from any phone or phone-like device | 12:16 |
| petur | but what lacks most on n810 is a good mapping and routing app | 12:16 |
| tank-man | I have an external bt gps (mtk chipset)I use with my n800. takes 30s to get a lock | 12:16 |
| Macer | hello | 12:17 |
| mtnman | petur i'm surprised there is no 3rd party app to fill that need | 12:17 |
| wazd | hello everyone :) | 12:17 |
| * RST38h moos evilly at wazd | 12:17 | |
| petur | I even wrote tomtom to please sell a version for n810... | 12:17 |
| Macer | mtnman: my g1 isnt too abbad | 12:17 |
| johnx | there's maemo-mapper, which was pretty nice for the time. now there's a new gtk app called emerillon, which looks pretty slick | 12:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: I surrender! :) | 12:18 |
| Macer | i cant seem to get the compass rotating to work | 12:18 |
| Macer | maybe i need an htc dream gs | 12:18 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Still no passport? =) | 12:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'm on this quest now :) | 12:18 |
| Macer | johnx: gtk ugh | 12:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: collecting documents for passport :) | 12:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: Oh, goood =) | 12:19 |
| Macer | documents? | 12:19 |
| johnx | Macer, huh? | 12:19 |
| wazd | Macer:well, photo, claim form and so on | 12:19 |
| Macer | claim form? | 12:19 |
| Macer | i remember it being one form | 12:19 |
| Macer | with the hardest thing to get being the perfect sized photo | 12:20 |
| johnx | Macer, you live in russia too? | 12:20 |
| Macer | oh | 12:20 |
| Macer | no :) | 12:20 |
| Macer | in communist russia passports stay secret | 12:20 |
| wazd | soviet* :) | 12:20 |
| Macer | haha | 12:20 |
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| Macer | i really like the themes you can use in android using cyanogen | 12:21 |
| johnx | wazd: 1, Macer: 0 | 12:21 |
| Macer | too bad still no built in hidd | 12:21 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: did you get out of army? | 12:22 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: yeah :) | 12:23 |
| ccooke | wazd: ah, well done :-) | 12:23 |
| johnx | w00! | 12:23 |
| johnx | wazd, next summit then? | 12:23 |
| Macer | was soviet russia really a republic? | 12:23 |
| ccooke | Macer: effectively, IIRC | 12:24 |
| wazd | Macer: yeah :) | 12:24 |
| wazd | johnx: hope so :) | 12:24 |
| Macer | so you had votes for local representation? | 12:24 |
| mtnman | i read that maemo is built on debian. if i'm used to debian, how similar will i find the maemo environment? | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: so when are you moving out of the country? :P | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | mtnman: vaguely similar and you want to rip out your hair at times | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | so similar to the debian experience. | 12:24 |
| Macer | haha | 12:25 |
| * mtnman does _not_ want to rip out his hair | 12:25 | |
| ccooke | mtnman: On the console it's very similar. GUI-land is very different. | 12:25 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: make a better mer ui | 12:25 |
| Macer | so i can use it on my tb | 12:25 |
| Macer | :) | 12:25 |
| johnx | mtnman, similar in that maemo diverged from debian circa 2005 and got cut down to fit in 100MB of flash | 12:25 |
| wazd | Macer: I was like 3-yo when Soviet Union existed so I hadn't got anything there :D | 12:26 |
| mtnman | so, busybox utilities, for example? | 12:26 |
| Macer | ccooke: not really... still uses X | 12:26 |
| johnx | then never really remerged. maemo4 has totally different package versions. names. has busybox instead of coreutils | 12:26 |
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| Macer | wazd: ah ok | 12:26 |
| johnx | but not really a complete busybox either | 12:26 |
| Macer | wikipedia to the rescur | 12:26 |
| Macer | they call it a republic.. so now i am curious | 12:26 |
| Macer | rescue | 12:27 |
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| wazd | russia was called RSFSR I remember | 12:27 |
| Macer | you know us americans. we always pictured russia as being under an iron fist with a harsh dictator murdering people in basements | 12:27 |
| wazd | ask RST38h for details :D | 12:28 |
| Macer | so like here except we have economic classes | 12:28 |
| mtnman | how is maemo4's browser? | 12:29 |
| johnx | mtnman, a little slow, but fairly compatible | 12:29 |
| Macer | mtnman: wait for maemo5 | 12:29 |
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| Macer | and buy an n900 | 12:29 |
| johnx | but the "Tear" browser is available and it's very nice for 95% of browsing | 12:30 |
| mtnman | Macer i guess you missed the part of the conversation where i said the 900 is too expensive for my needs | 12:30 |
| Macer | haha | 12:30 |
| Macer | save up | 12:30 |
| mtnman | Macer you are not being helpful | 12:30 |
| johnx | Macer, coat pocket while skiing isn't the most friendly place for a $550 device :P | 12:31 |
| Macer | better to take 2 years to get a corvette than to take 2 months to get a pinto | 12:31 |
| RST38h | punto | 12:31 |
| johnx | Macer, and walk to work every day? wait...what? | 12:31 |
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| mtnman | Macer unless you need to drive to work today | 12:31 |
| Macer | mtnman: fair point | 12:31 |
| johnx | mtnman, Macer's not that helpful in general. :D :P it's not like he's singling you out... | 12:31 |
| Macer | hahaha | 12:32 |
| petur | mtnman: the n810 browser works for general use, not too fast but it works. Don't try sites that are heavy on scripting (/. is slow and google wave is a total fail) | 12:32 |
| Macer | not true. i put ubuntu for arm on my web site for the touchbook | 12:32 |
| johnx | BTW Macer. seen zombieland? | 12:32 |
| Macer | ;) | 12:32 |
| mtnman | well i should congratulate myself for recognizing that from the get-go | 12:32 |
| Macer | johnx: sure havent. i will download it in a little bit | 12:32 |
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| Macer | and when i get the chance i will put the mer stuff there | 12:33 |
| johnx | petur, I think Tear gets detected the same as the iphone browser on /. and it proceeds to disable the most useless parts of the js and works nicely | 12:33 |
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| mtnman | what is Tear? | 12:33 |
| petur | a browser | 12:33 |
| johnx | a webkit based browser with kinetic scrolling | 12:33 |
| mtnman | is it the browser that ships with maemo or 3rd party or what? | 12:34 |
| petur | is Tear available for maemo4 or only on mer? | 12:34 |
| johnx | it's pretty much the best thing going on maemo4 IMHO | 12:34 |
| johnx | 3rd party, available on maemo4/5 and mer | 12:34 |
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| johnx | also, the "iphone" version of google reader works great in tear | 12:34 |
| ccooke | It ought to :-) | 12:34 |
| johnx | (and microb maemo5 version for that matter) | 12:35 |
| ccooke | (Has anyone heard of an offline google reader app? Or does Tear support gears?) | 12:35 |
| johnx | ccooke, eh. sometimes iphone sites do stupid things with fixed width/height | 12:35 |
| ccooke | johnx: true | 12:35 |
| johnx | no gears for tear, but I thought webkit was going to have offline storage built in eventually | 12:35 |
| johnx | it's an HTML5 thing, right? | 12:36 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: dunno, hope to make it to Barcelona (if anything happens) | 12:36 |
| mtnman | ok thanks for the info everybody | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hope for you too :) | 12:37 |
| * mtnman considers the concept of sleep | 12:37 | |
| vasily_pupkin | anybody familar with GTK here? | 12:37 |
| johnx | mtnman, I've heard some people like it, but I only dabble in it myself | 12:37 |
| Macer | mtnman: maemo is pretty awesome | 12:37 |
| johnx | tell me if it's any good | 12:37 |
| Macer | just make sure you get an n810 | 12:38 |
| vasily_pupkin | :] | 12:38 |
| Macer | the n800 without the qwerty is a pain | 12:38 |
| mtnman | Macer i guess you missed that i've been talking about the 810 since i joined the channel | 12:39 |
| johnx | vasily_pupkin, what are you trying to do? | 12:39 |
| mtnman | johnx: dabbling is ok, but the best benefits accrue when you get deep into it. | 12:39 |
| Macer | mtnman: i did | 12:39 |
| vasily_pupkin | generally i want use native maemo vkbd with emacs | 12:39 |
| vasily_pupkin | :] | 12:39 |
| Macer | personally i like microb more than tear | 12:40 |
| vasily_pupkin | to do so, i must uderstand conditions, when GTK IM activated | 12:40 |
| Macer | seems more page friendly | 12:40 |
| Macer | but tear is quicker | 12:40 |
| johnx | vasily_pupkin, weeell, I think gtk im != hildon im | 12:41 |
| RST38h | both microb and tear have severe performance problems on N8x0 | 12:41 |
| mtnman | is hildon the ui for maemo4 and 5? | 12:41 |
| RST38h | so at the end it does not matter much | 12:41 |
| johnx | mtnman, it's...complicated | 12:41 |
| Macer | RST38h: i thought tear was a bit quicker | 12:41 |
| Macer | RST38h: was | 12:41 |
| vasily_pupkin | johnx: but native GTK applications can use virtual keyboad in input fields | 12:41 |
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| mtnman | johnx does it exist for both maemo4 and 5 or is it just a 5 thing? | 12:41 |
| * petur tries to find out what repository to add to get Tear into the installable apps section | 12:42 | |
| johnx | hildon is kind of GUI lib that goes with gtk | 12:42 |
| Macer | wazd said to ask you about soviet russia | 12:42 |
| johnx | different versions in 4 and 5 | 12:42 |
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| mtnman | that computes | 12:42 |
| johnx | petur, qole.org repository | 12:42 |
| petur | thnx | 12:42 |
| Macer | RST38h: it is called a republic. did you guys vote at all back in the soviet days? | 12:42 |
| johnx | vasily_pupkin, ah, true I guess | 12:42 |
| mtnman | the us is also a republic. a democratic one. | 12:43 |
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| ccooke | I am amused that there are no actual democracies in the world | 12:43 |
| Macer | ccooke: so true | 12:43 |
| johnx | ccooke, it doesn't scale | 12:44 |
| vasily_pupkin | johnx: the problem is: emacs/gtk use just canvas or something in that way. and i have to invoke vkbd manually.. | 12:44 |
| ccooke | (and if they were, it's highly unlikely that they'd work or be a sensible idea) | 12:44 |
| mtnman | ccooke i think there are democracies, but on a smaller scale than a country | 12:44 |
| Macer | i am a big fan of popular vote over the electoral college method | 12:44 |
| ccooke | mtnman: oh, sure. But that's not what people actually think of as a democracy :-) | 12:44 |
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| * ccooke imagines vote by twitter hashtag prevalence | 12:45 | |
| mtnman | ccooke for example, iirc, debian is run democratically | 12:45 |
| Macer | hahaha | 12:45 |
| johnx | Macer, and I'm a big fan of just about anything except for the current "single-vote" system | 12:45 |
| Macer | the duopoly system? | 12:45 |
| johnx | ccooke, ooooh, or google zeitegist (sp?) | 12:45 |
| Macer | right vs left with the same results? | 12:45 |
| mtnman | Macer the two parties are flip sides of the same coin | 12:45 |
| ccooke | johnx: that would look far too respectable :-) | 12:46 |
| Macer | mtnman: just different rhetoric | 12:46 |
| johnx | ccooke, imagine the money that would go into SEO :D | 12:46 |
| ccooke | oh god, yes | 12:46 |
| mtnman | the dems and repubs are different teams, but they play in the same league | 12:46 |
| Macer | mtnman: i would say they play with the same players too | 12:47 |
| johnx | mtnman, then there's the parties where we're not even sure they're playing the same sport :D | 12:47 |
| mtnman | Macer that doesn't parse | 12:47 |
| * ccooke misses the Monster Raving Loony party | 12:47 | |
| Macer | seriously with the computer metaphors? | 12:48 |
| Macer | :) | 12:48 |
| Macer | bbl | 12:48 |
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| mtnman | ok bye all. thanks again for all of the info | 12:52 |
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| johnx | 'night mtnman | 12:52 |
| lbt | o/ | 12:52 |
| * mtnman runs off to buy an n810 | 12:52 | |
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| zaheer_ | pvanhoof, can i use tracker on fremantle to index my own app's text content that are in data files and then query it from inside my app? | 12:54 |
| pvanhoof | Should be possible, yes. However, I don't follow Tracker 0.6 as closely as I do with 0.7/master nowadays. You should join #tracker on GimpNET and ask martyn and garnacho on how to do this. | 12:55 |
| pvanhoof | Don't forget to mention Tracker 0.6, because they are focused on 0.7 too already :) | 12:56 |
| Macer | after reading about soviet russia. it was an interesting idea | 12:56 |
| zaheer_ | pvanhoof, thx | 12:56 |
| pvanhoof | np | 12:56 |
| Macer | like having the united states except each state had the right to secede | 12:56 |
| Macer | interesting concept | 12:57 |
| pvanhoof | In 0.7 of course, you don't have to put stuff in files. You put stuff, using sparql-update, into tracker yourself (if possible) | 12:57 |
| johnx | Macer, wow...that'd turn ugly real quick-like | 12:57 |
| Macer | it reminds me of the eu | 12:57 |
| Macer | johnx: yeah. there too | 12:57 |
| Macer | which is why most didnt secede | 12:57 |
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| johnx | I think the thing with the EU is that they voted to be there in the first place no too long ago | 12:58 |
| johnx | might be a different picture 200 years down the line | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | heh, discussions of seceding from EU has been occouring once in a while | 13:01 |
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| johnx | give it long enough that no one who voted to be there in the first place is alive anymore ;) | 13:01 |
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| lardman | johnx: sorry for the delay, re emerillon, tyes | 13:10 |
| lardman | yes | 13:11 |
| wazd | surprisingly, FM radio UI will work just fine in portrait mode :) | 13:11 |
| lardman | johnx: I've pushed all the deps to extras-devel, and just need to test emerillon itself | 13:11 |
| johnx | lardman, very cool. just wanted to jump on board and say that I'm really looking forward to it, and hopefully I'll be able to cut my teeth on some easier plugins | 13:11 |
| lardman | I think it got it to compile, can't remember now | 13:11 |
| lardman | johnx: cool | 13:12 |
| johnx | (or at least make rm_you do it for me :> ) | 13:12 |
| samad | gst_element_factory_make(VIDEO_SRC, "camera_src"); could anybody help me what is actual code replaced of "camera_src" | 13:12 |
| lardman | Well I was planning on writing a stand-alone contact location app, but making a plugin for emerillon might be a better bet | 13:12 |
| * fatal^ is also interested in emerillon and might write some plugins if he gets time over.... | 13:12 | |
| lardman | so I thought I'd get it working and see from there | 13:12 |
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| johnx | lardman, woo! we're thinking about the same thing. rm_you would be interested as well | 13:13 |
| johnx | too bad the google lattitude API is closed (AFAIK) | 13:13 |
| Robot101 | lardman: did you see that Telepathy supports contact locations via XMPP? | 13:13 |
| Robot101 | lardman: Empathy (in GNOME) exposes it on a map using the same (libchamplain) widget at Emerillon | 13:13 |
| Robot101 | lardman: we'd like to move that to an Emerillon plugin, that'd work on Maemo too then | 13:13 |
| lardman | unfortunately most servers don't enable it afaiu | 13:14 |
| johnx | what about gtalk? | 13:14 |
| Robot101 | gtalk delightfully non-standard | 13:14 |
| Robot101 | so there's only latitude | 13:14 |
| johnx | blah | 13:15 |
| johnx | google hasn't been winning any points with me lately ... | 13:15 |
| Robot101 | but, you could write a telepathy backend for that, or make emerillon query it too | 13:15 |
| zash | srsly, did google do a microsoft with gtalk/xmpp? | 13:15 |
| Robot101 | librest should make it pretty easy | 13:15 |
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| lardman | I'll have a look at the code at lunchtime and let you know where I got to - I replaced the geoclue stuff with liblocation, no idea if it will work, and also had to remove a bit of GTK+ 2.16 stuff | 13:16 |
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| * lardman tries to remember, was a long weekend of moving furniture and driving a van around | 13:16 | |
| johnx | ouch. is liblocation open or closed? or is it open but relies on closed libraries? | 13:16 |
| lardman | closed probably | 13:17 |
| lcuk | mornin lard john | 13:17 |
| lardman | but don't quote me | 13:17 |
| lardman | hi lcuk | 13:17 |
| johnx | no quoting :) | 13:17 |
| johnx | hey lcuk | 13:17 |
| lardman | if we do get a nice plugin working, will have to try to persuade Nokia to use xmpp or to add the lat/long to the comment field as they do atm | 13:18 |
| lardman | as they do with the location text anyway | 13:18 |
| * johnx feels his dreams of something that works on mer *and* maemo slipping away every so quietly | 13:20 | |
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| lardman | no, I don't see why that should happen | 13:20 |
| lardman | we just make sure it will work on both | 13:20 |
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| lcuk | how do i make vnc viewer scale | 13:21 |
| lardman | scale what? | 13:21 |
| lcuk | on n900 im sure i used to be able to | 13:21 |
| lcuk | screen | 13:21 |
| lardman | zoom you mean? | 13:21 |
| lcuk | im panning around like billyo | 13:21 |
| lcuk | no, scale display to fit | 13:21 |
| lardman | ah | 13:22 |
| lcuk | 12801024 into 800480 | 13:22 |
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| Stskeeps | Mapping fremantle openness: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=363579 | 13:22 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, open alternatives column | 13:27 |
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| Stskeeps | write it as a comment ta | 13:27 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, its hard enough writing here im on vnc on train | 13:27 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:28 |
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| lardman | ah, http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemo-geolocation/ | 13:31 |
| johnx | free! | 13:31 |
| johnx | that's a start | 13:31 |
| lardman | but I'd still prefer a stand-alone app rather than a webservice | 13:32 |
| lardman | not least because then you can cache the map data | 13:32 |
| lardman | and libchamplain looks very pretty :) | 13:32 |
| lardman | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30887&page=4 might be of interest too though | 13:33 |
| lcuk | is the nokia maps data format documented? | 13:33 |
| zaheer_ | lcuk, that'd be useful if it was, not sure if the ovi maps sdk gives access to stuff inside it | 13:33 |
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| lardman | lcuk: I don't think so, but someone was saying the runtime is just javascript...? | 13:35 |
| lcuk | interesting | 13:36 |
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| lcuk | gotta go, bbl | 13:39 |
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| matmo | hi guys, quick question for the lucky people with N900's, does it come with a stylus? | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 13:39 |
| matmo | Stskeeps: thanks for confirming | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | at least the preprods we have | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | it says nothing of final product though | 13:41 |
| ccooke | Stskeeps: I thought there was confirmation the preprods were final hardware? | 13:41 |
| * Stskeeps dunno | 13:41 | |
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| matmo | Stskeeps: oh, was your N900 supplied in retail packaging? | 13:42 |
| Stskeeps | it says 'NOT FOR SALE', so I doubt it. | 13:43 |
| johnx | matmo, in my case the box looked like retrail but it had a "not for sale" sticker as well | 13:43 |
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| johnx | if I had to bet, I'd bet that nothing is changing on the device hardware, and little is changing in the packaging | 13:43 |
| matmo | just wondering if the box or any leaflet mentioned "contents". I understand that details may change in the final product. | 13:43 |
| johnx | 1 or 2 months is pretty short notice to fix anything | 13:43 |
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| johnx | unless the hardware we were given was from a much earlier period, then I think it's fairly safe to guess the final retail device will ship with a stylus | 13:45 |
| matmo | It would seem wise given the that the physical screen has shrunk | 13:46 |
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| johnx | but the GUI is more finger oriented | 13:46 |
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| matmo | except app's may not be | 13:46 |
| johnx | I haven't found a stylus helpful except in some web situations | 13:46 |
| johnx | most notably, google maps | 13:46 |
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| lardman | all the more reason to replace that with a finger friendly app then ;) | 13:47 |
| johnx | yes. for the love of god, yes | 13:47 |
| * Stskeeps waits for maemo mapper. | 13:47 | |
| matmo | what about the the stylus being mentioned on box/leaflet and where is the stylus store? The N97 has a receptacle on the case. | 13:48 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, dunno. got emerillon up and running on ubuntu and I'm pretty sold | 13:48 |
| johnx | matmo, the n900 has a stylus 'silo' as well in the bottom of the case | 13:48 |
| johnx | that's the biggest reason I think they'll ship with one ;) | 13:48 |
| matmo | In an ideal world I would agree that app's should adapt but some don't lend themselves to that task without become unusable in other ways | 13:49 |
| matmo | johnx: thanks for confirming. I would now bet it ships with one, any takers :-) JK | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: if it supports caching.. | 13:50 |
| johnx | it does | 13:50 |
| johnx | supports plugins too, in different languages | 13:50 |
| hrw | speaking of n900... | 13:50 |
| johnx | and the operation is single-button too | 13:51 |
| johnx | just dragging and clicking | 13:51 |
| hrw | I know that so far officially it does not support AD-54 (music control headphone remote) - but is it just software or also hardware reason? | 13:51 |
| johnx | hrw, this is on the 3.5mm jack right? not talking about bt? | 13:52 |
| lardman | hmm, I think I have one of those somewhere at home | 13:52 |
| hrw | johnx: 3.5mm one | 13:52 |
| johnx | no clue | 13:52 |
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| hrw | I use AD-44 (2.5mm) with my nokia E66 and love it | 13:53 |
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| frals | anyone seen or heard anything about the telepathy sms/phone docs? (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=319365&postcount=15) | 13:58 |
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| lardman | hmm, so what can use the maemo-geolocation plugin? | 14:01 |
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| wjt | i wish talk.maemo.org would load faster | 14:08 |
| wjt | frals: SMS and phone calls are handled as regular Telepathy text and streamedmedia channels | 14:09 |
| wjt | frals: there are a few extension interfaces in rtcom-telepathy-glib (which is in the SDK i think, it's LGPLed these days) | 14:09 |
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| wjt | frals: the Telepathy Book at <http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/> is probably a good place to look if you're interested :) | 14:10 |
| frals | thanks! :) | 14:10 |
| wjt | rtcom-tp-glib's on git.collabora.co.uk (but is a bit out of sync.; I should update it) | 14:11 |
| wjt | (and put it on gitorious i guess) | 14:11 |
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| fatal^ | does anyone here know how to hook up an application to the zoom buttons on n900? Would like to fix maemo-mapper to zoom rather then lower/raise volume when pressing the buttons.... | 14:18 |
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| fatal^ | hmm... _HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM | 14:32 |
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| lardman | so, what should I pass to configure to get it to #define something in config.h? | 14:56 |
| hrw | bye | 14:57 |
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| lardman | cu hrw|gone | 14:57 |
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| * lardman twiddles CFLAGS | 15:01 | |
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| lardman | ok, I need some debianisation help bow | 15:06 |
| lardman | now | 15:06 |
| lardman | let me produce some source packages for emerillon and I'll set you all loose on it | 15:06 |
| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/temp/emerillon* | 15:09 |
| lardman | it's complaining about some rules problem | 15:09 |
| lardman | touch build-stamp | 15:09 |
| lardman | fakeroot debian/rules binary | 15:09 |
| lardman | make: *** No rule to make target `binary'. Stop. | 15:09 |
| lardman | the deps are in extras-devel btw | 15:09 |
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| pupnik | hm | 15:12 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: ping | 15:14 |
| pupnik | emerillon is totally new to me. | 15:15 |
| pupnik | what is its focus .. looks like a map viewer | 15:15 |
| lardman | it's a map app, yep | 15:16 |
| lardman | people can write plugins for it | 15:16 |
| lardman | and it uses libchamplain as the viewing widget, which is a clutter widget | 15:16 |
| lardman | so should be pretty | 15:16 |
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| * lardman adds some random stuff to rules and tries for another build | 15:19 | |
| lardman | argh dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source | 15:19 |
| lardman | any ideas how to fix that? | 15:19 |
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| lardman | hmm, looks like my make clean is broken | 15:25 |
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| * RST38h moos at larman and pupnik | 15:26 | |
| lardman | hi RST38h | 15:27 |
| RST38h | "Coders have confirmed that the developer build of OS X 10.6.2 kills support for netbook Atom processors." | 15:27 |
| lardman | ooo, it compiled and packaged :) | 15:28 |
| mihu | Hi. I don't know what to think about the wifi performance of the N900. I have experimented with transferring files back and forth via wifi. Does the wifi adapter support 802.11g? I have connected it to my home wifi network, no other wifi users attached. And no other wifi network is present in the neighbourhood. What kind of datarate should I be able to get? | 15:29 |
| Macer | 2 Nov 07:30:39 ntpdate[2183]: step time server 198.123.30.132 offset 1257168088.163919 sec | 15:31 |
| Macer | haha | 15:31 |
| Robot101 | Macer: aaalmost :) | 15:31 |
| aquatix | Macer: ouch :) | 15:31 |
| Macer | the touchbook doesn't keep time | 15:31 |
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| Macer | so everytime you turn it off.. it starts off in 1970 | 15:31 |
| derf | My N810 does that now. | 15:31 |
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| aquatix | Macer: sounds about right indeed | 15:32 |
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| aquatix | does it have some kind of bios? | 15:32 |
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| Macer | no | 15:32 |
| Macer | sure doesn't. the actual os that comes with it uses a startup time sync script | 15:33 |
| Macer | which i am sure just runs ntpdate | 15:33 |
| Macer | i'm trying to find out if there is a way ffor me to get android on it | 15:33 |
| Macer | kde is slow as shit :) | 15:33 |
| Macer | android seems like the only fully developed touch based os that would be good on it | 15:34 |
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| Macer | and considering all it is, is an oe omap in a touch tablet.. seems like it should be pretty straightforward | 15:35 |
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| lardman | hmm, still something wrong there, no binary in the deb | 15:40 |
| RST38h | Macer: got your touchbook? how is it? | 15:40 |
| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/emerillon/ debianisation help appreciated for emerillon itself | 15:41 |
| Macer | RST38h: it sucks | 15:41 |
| Macer | :) | 15:41 |
| Macer | well... the hardware is pretty good. the software was a bigger letdown than android 1.0 | 15:41 |
| Macer | there really isn't anything good to run on it | 15:42 |
| Macer | i'm in ubuntu with kde on it now.. omap3 really isn't as fast as i thought it would be | 15:42 |
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| Corsac | Macer: mine runs pretty fine | 15:42 |
| Macer | but i am sure it is more of a ram constriction than cpu speed | 15:42 |
| Corsac | though I kept the OE and upgraded to xfce 4.6 | 15:42 |
| Macer | Corsac: i am comparing it to my atom aspire one with the same software on it | 15:43 |
| Macer | lasts just as long and is 3x faster ;) | 15:43 |
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| Macer | i think android would run fairly well on it though if i can figure out how to get it going | 15:43 |
| RST38h | Macer: Ditch KDE for starters | 15:44 |
| RST38h | Macer: It should be fine with cut down Gnome or XFCE | 15:44 |
| matmo | bye! | 15:44 |
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| Macer | RST38h: runs just as slow with lxde :) | 15:44 |
| RST38h | Hmmm | 15:44 |
| Macer | it just isn't as zippy as i thought it would be | 15:45 |
| RST38h | well, it is no Atom for sure | 15:45 |
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| RST38h | memory bus is probably 2-3 times slower | 15:45 |
| Macer | i wouldn't mind that if it lasted the 10+ hours advertised ;) | 15:45 |
| Macer | but the power management and cpufreq isn't implemented yet | 15:45 |
| Macer | so it runs full speed and can't go into lower power modes | 15:45 |
| Macer | so it lasts about the same as my aspire one which i wanted to replace solely for more time on a battery charge | 15:46 |
| Macer | and taxes 2x to recharge :) | 15:46 |
| Macer | taxes/takes | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | np: Missy Elliot - Get Your Freq on. | 15:47 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: Congrats on SuperTux entering Extras =) | 15:49 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, lol | 15:49 |
| * AndrewFBlack prepares to get flamed for next comment | 15:49 | |
| RST38h | VDVsx: javis committed OpenTTD to -Devel yesterday, must make him promote it to -Testing tonight =) | 15:49 |
| AndrewFBlack | I miss some of my iPhone apps | 15:49 |
| Jaffa | AndrewFBlack: Which ones? | 15:50 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, had a hard time to upload the screenshots, lol | 15:50 |
| RST38h | AFBlack: iFart? | 15:50 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: @#%P@%# | 15:50 |
| AndrewFBlack | Pandora for one | 15:50 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: I can't upload any :( | 15:50 |
| Jaffa | AndrewFBlack: Email the developer and ask 'em to port it? ;-) | 15:50 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, use my tactic, it works ;) | 15:50 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, wait a bit then open the page in a new tab and check ;) | 15:51 |
| AndrewFBlack | Jaffa, I'll try but I think it might be done my pandora themselfs | 15:51 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Hmm...last time when I kinda managed to do it, I did exactly that | 15:51 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, hermes need to be promoted as well, works fine here ;) | 15:51 |
| AndrewFBlack | I was kinda hopping we would atleast get rhapsady on n900 | 15:51 |
| Jaffa | AndrewFBlack: Yeah, so? | 15:51 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: 0.2.2 is in -testing, is about 3 days old and had 4 votes last time I checked. | 15:52 |
| RST38h | AFBlack: Will LastFM be sufficient? | 15:52 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: AlmostTI needs a screenshot | 15:52 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: All of them do =( | 15:52 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I cannot upload any screenshots | 15:52 |
| lcuk | hey guys, please retest moobox, the guy made some changes and we worked together to try to solve the background busy problem | 15:52 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, yeah, the other version had +8 votes :( | 15:53 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Oh. Well, see my thread about bug fixing disincentives. | 15:53 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, what's the propose of that app | 15:53 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, I know ;) | 15:53 |
| AndrewFBlack | RST38h, yeah but I didn't see LastFM client for n900 yet | 15:53 |
| Jaffa | Quim's attitude still seemed to be (on the QA marathon thread) that "lots of testers will make it better" | 15:53 |
| RST38h | AFBlack: Well you know whom to nudge | 15:53 |
| Jaffa | I think we can say we've stress tested this process and it needs some fixes. | 15:53 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, run it, turn n900 over, it moos. the end. | 15:53 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: He is wrong, most likely | 15:53 |
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| qwerty12 | VDVsx: To show a static image of a cow in a box that moos when you shake he N900.. That's it, | 15:54 |
| VDVsx | nice | 15:54 |
| lcuk | jaffa and his son likes it tho | 15:54 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You probably know my argument based on the Maemo4 Download voting activity | 15:54 |
| lcuk | and jake loves it | 15:54 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Vaguely | 15:54 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Add to that the Maemo5 voting/promotion UI being completely unusable | 15:54 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I'm planning on doing some quick app testing this evening. | 15:54 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, I argued that most end users are lazy bums who will happily download your stuff but will never bother to vote | 15:54 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So every single power user will end up with -Testing enabled, while Extras will stay deserted | 15:55 |
| lcuk | jaffa/everyone, we want apps to be in extras so please dont worry about upgrades in your deliberations | 15:55 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, same thought here | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: To verify that you only need to check how many people vote using the current Downloads interface | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: For Maemo4 Extras | 15:56 |
| lcuk | its included functionality thats tested | 15:56 |
| lcuk | not whats missing | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: My email was based on personal experience and my own motivation. It is concrete & empirical (although subjective) | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, appinstaller exists for debian .debs.. why not make a extras-testing app? | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I suggest you read it, if you haven't. | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | which enforces a workflow | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I was pondering that - a quick overview of the QA queue, checklist reminder and a quick way to vote/comment. | 15:57 |
| lcuk | i meant the comments on apps. its not just you, ppl are using testing to give suggestions for new functionality and upgrades | 15:57 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Oh, yeah, I've not suffered that too much. And it is an obvious place to *suggest* new functionality, but it shouldn't act as a blocker to promotion. | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: i would really just integrate it with notifications and such | 15:58 |
| lcuk | if it works, ship it! | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | noticing an app closed/etc | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Hmm, interesting. | 15:58 |
| AndrewFBlack | anyone know if vagalume is in the process of being ported to maemo5 | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | tracking core dumps of the apps if that happens | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Yes, but my problem comes FSVO "works" and having to start again. | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | basically crash reporter on steroids :) | 15:59 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: :) | 15:59 |
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| Stskeeps | (which btw is oss i think) | 16:00 |
| lcuk | gah @ vnc jaffa and we only worked out that was wrong by testing it | 16:01 |
| lcuk | good for this wkend for us to see it in action | 16:01 |
| lcuk | now we have concrete data 2 streamline | 16:02 |
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| VDVsx | and the other issue are the CLI apps @ AM, seems that we've a lot of disagreement on that | 16:07 |
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| AndrewFBlack | 25 | 16:08 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: We do. A lot of negativity, not much constructive suggestion | 16:08 |
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| * VDVsx is against these apps in the AM, at least by default for the regular user | 16:10 | |
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| qwerty12 | PING 1257171141 | 16:12 |
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| qwerty12 | Apologies, this client is fucked. | 16:13 |
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| * VDVsx disables qwerty12's cloak :P | 16:14 | |
| fiferboy | Hi, everybody! | 16:14 |
| * qwerty12 reports VDVsx for trying to promote his library :p | 16:15 | |
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| qwerty12 | Hiya, fiferboy. The loss of Wind Mobile still hittin' you hard? | 16:15 |
| fiferboy | Nah, I was never going to go with them anyway... | 16:15 |
| * fiferboy wipes away a tear | 16:15 | |
| fiferboy | Besides, there are lots of good, expensive options for getting EDGE connectivity in Canada | 16:16 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, well, you can always enjoy your lovely 2.5G | 16:16 |
| fiferboy | What more could I want? | 16:16 |
| ensi | how the hell can i get @ character inside scartchbox hildon session? | 16:21 |
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| VDVsx | fiferboy, 3g for example, lol | 16:23 |
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| fiferboy | VDVsx: I am currently enjoying 0G, so even 2.5G would be a step up | 16:25 |
| VDVsx | fiferboy, :( | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | fiferboy, gprs ? :P | 16:26 |
| fiferboy | VDVsx: It is just because I haven't bought a SIM and my current cell is CDMA | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | ah | 16:26 |
| fiferboy | Yeah, it might be ironic that I wrote the GPRS monitor widget and am probably the only person without a SIM in his N900... | 16:27 |
| qwerty12 | fiferboy: Just make "Personal SIM Emulator" | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | fiferboy: :) | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | fiferboy: you can't find a sanely priced one? | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - you're in the US. | 16:27 |
| fiferboy | qwerty12: I was hoping your connection name changer would allow me to show a 3.5G connection as well... | 16:27 |
| * VDVsx area only supports 3.6Mb over 3G atm | 16:27 | |
| fiferboy | SpeedEvil: No, In Canada. It is worse. | 16:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | fiferboy: ah - sorry - misremembered. | 16:28 |
| SpeedEvil | fiferboy: The UK could suck a lot more in terms of 3G. | 16:28 |
| fiferboy | SpeedEvil: No problem. You just know that I am not in Fife (despite my name) | 16:28 |
| qwerty12 | fiferboy: Ah. Well, you have fun reversing that particular applet... | 16:28 |
| SpeedEvil | fiferboy: :) | 16:29 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12, what's the max in the UK for 3G/3.5G ? | 16:29 |
| fiferboy | qwerty12: Yeah, I would think that would be a lost cause | 16:29 |
| qwerty12 | I find the concept of buying SIMs odd, considering that every network in the UK offers to send them free to your house,., | 16:29 |
| qwerty12 | VDVsx, not sure, sorry | 16:29 |
| SpeedEvil | qwerty12: it varies with location. | 16:30 |
| fiferboy | qwerty12: I'll create a wallpaper that has a little "3.5G" right under my "no-SIM" icon... | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | qwerty12: in large metropolitan areas it goes up to 7.5mbps | 16:30 |
| VDVsx | oh it's seems that we've 21,6Mb in some areas, WTF | 16:30 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, nice. I was getting quite bad speeds on 3G but that may have just been T-Mobile... | 16:30 |
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| qwerty12 | And I better GTFO. Lessons. | 16:31 |
| qwerty12 | Bye | 16:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | I get 512kilobits about on t-mobile in the UK | 16:31 |
| SpeedEvil | but I do have the 3g dongle on a 6m pole to get any signal at all. | 16:31 |
| ccooke | hmm. I seem to be getting very good 3.5G connections in most places. | 16:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | Anyone on '3' in the UK? | 16:32 |
| * SpeedEvil is trying to work out APNs and stuff. | 16:32 | |
| VDVsx | seems that HSPA+ 64QAM supports up to 21Mb o_0 | 16:34 |
| * evo just started N900 SDK ... wow | 16:35 | |
| AndrewFBlack | 19 | 16:36 |
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| lardman | re | 16:45 |
| lardman | anyone know which channel the chap who was offering cloaks lives in so I can contact him? | 16:46 |
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| fiferboy | lardman: The guy who offered mine is showing offline right now... | 16:47 |
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| lardman | fiferboy: which cannel? | 16:48 |
| lardman | or channel even :) | 16:48 |
| lardman | jeremiah: ping | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: Here? | 16:53 |
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| lardman | do we have a Vala runtime for Fremantle? | 16:55 |
| lardman | must add that for emerillon so some of the 3rd party plugins will work | 16:57 |
| RST38h | Well, Bundyo uses *something* for tear on Fremantle | 16:57 |
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| fatal^ | lardman: vala is available in extras-devel | 17:03 |
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| lardman | cool, thanks | 17:04 |
| juergbi | lardman: vala applications don't need a special runtime library besides glib | 17:04 |
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| lardman | anyone had a chance to look at the emerillon debian stuff? | 17:05 |
| lardman | juergbi: oh right | 17:05 |
| juergbi | (they may use any number of other libraries, of course, but there is nothing like a libvala runtime) | 17:05 |
| lardman | juergbi: they need a compiler though - valac | 17:05 |
| juergbi | yes, sure for building | 17:05 |
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| lardman | juergbi: iirc I need that to build the bindings | 17:06 |
| VDVsx | lardman, for cloaks contact GAN900 :) | 17:06 |
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| lardman | GAN900: ping | 17:06 |
| lardman | VDVsx: thanks | 17:06 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, X-Fade in on holidays, it seems | 17:07 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, do you've some problem ? | 17:07 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: every time a package is promoted to Extras, it destroys all the screenshots :( | 17:07 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, bug report ;) | 17:07 |
| RST38h | VDvsx: Given what it takes to upload a screenshots (15-20 minutes of randomly clicking SUBMIT button_ | 17:07 |
| VDVsx | ehhe | 17:08 |
| RST38h | I hoped he would quickly fixed that | 17:08 |
| wazd | where's that dirty liar qwerty12 :) | 17:08 |
| fiferboy | wazd: Class | 17:08 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: I really hoped it could be resolved *without* filing abug tracker though | 17:08 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, you can try to contact ferenc, is substituting X-Fade | 17:09 |
| VDVsx | *he is | 17:09 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: What is his nick? | 17:09 |
| VDVsx | err | 17:09 |
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| Jaffa | sopi, feri, ferenc. Any of them, I think | 17:13 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, RST38h, feri | 17:14 |
| VDVsx | and ferenc lol | 17:14 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, try this: http://n2.nabble.com/Substituting-Niels-in-November-td3930903.html#a3930903 | 17:14 |
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| Anidel | hi | 17:28 |
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| lardman | hi Anidel | 17:30 |
| RST38h | IE6 seems to work better with maemo.org | 17:31 |
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| Anidel | hey lardman | 17:33 |
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| RST38h | Can't upload any screenshots at all =( | 17:44 |
| Anidel | where? | 17:45 |
| RST38h | Extras | 17:46 |
| Anidel | nice.. | 17:46 |
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| Anidel | hey qwerty12 | 17:55 |
| qwerty12 | Hiya, Anidel | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | wb qwerty12 | 17:55 |
| qwerty12 | Thank you, Stskeeps | 17:55 |
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| orbarron | morning all | 17:58 |
| Jaffa | Eh? Someone's just ranked and commented on Hermes 0.2.0, despite 0.2.2 being in -testing! | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | people can't keep up with the upgrades | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | what changed in 0.2.2 btw? | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | I upgraded this morning and was wondering | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | morning orbarron | 17:59 |
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| VDVsx | Jaffa, is this possible ? lol | 18:00 |
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| luke-jr | Jaffa: not everyone runs testing | 18:00 |
| VDVsx | I've noticed that the feedhandler package randomly appear in the user list, although the package section is just network | 18:01 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, someone found a link you left | 18:01 |
| lcuk | the web is not linked to the app they installed | 18:02 |
| ali1234 | awesome, dpkg-scanpackages in the SDK is broken | 18:02 |
| lcuk | and how does a user know or care which version they are running | 18:02 |
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| Jaffa | mgedmin: Facebook have introduced long (rather than int) UIDs; also doesn't use the default Twitter placeholder icon | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Where did I leave a link? I'm not sure I've advertised it (although ICBW) | 18:06 |
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| mgedmin | scary N900 experience today: plug in USB data cable, nothing happens -- no charging, no prompts | 18:07 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: You sound like you're defending a UI which is sub-optimal. | 18:07 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Happened to me a few times. | 18:07 |
| mgedmin | reboot fixed it and my N900 started charging | 18:07 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, i think the only proper way to get testers is with on device rating and notifications after apps are installed from -testing | 18:08 |
| lcuk | i think this whole web ui sucks for getting feedback | 18:08 |
| lcuk | because of the disjointedness | 18:08 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: or big warnings and no further comments/rating on apps which have been superceded in the same repository | 18:08 |
| lcuk | normal users or testers dont know or care about versions | 18:08 |
| lcuk | ive been looking at packagerate software | 18:09 |
| lcuk | to see if it can be tweaked | 18:09 |
| lcuk | but i think it needs proper integration with the updates available notifier | 18:09 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: This sounds like brainstorm. Lots of ideas, no implementation ;-) | 18:10 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, thats a minor issue and wont increase participation unfortunately | 18:10 |
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| lcuk | someone still had to find their way to the old one | 18:10 |
| ceda | Hi! I'm trying add extras-devel to APT so I can get hold of python-hildon bindings, but I've failed to find the "deb http://..." line to add :P | 18:11 |
| qwerty12 | ceda: http://repository.maemo.org/#extras-devel | 18:12 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, for people interested in testing packages generically, giving them the list and asking them to install and check packages is a reasonable thing | 18:12 |
| lcuk | ie http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ list | 18:12 |
| ceda | qwerty12: thanks | 18:13 |
| lcuk | but for you to get testers you have to currently give them the specific link to your package | 18:13 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I don't disagree. | 18:13 |
| lcuk | or let them do it, maybe what would be better for testers (and WOULD be simple to implement) would be a specific testing url | 18:13 |
| lcuk | just a mo | 18:13 |
| lcuk | instead of : | 18:14 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/hermes/0.2.2/ | 18:14 |
| lcuk | have | 18:14 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/hermes/latest | 18:14 |
| lcuk | which is just a symlink which always takes to latest | 18:14 |
| * Jaffa nods | 18:14 | |
| Jaffa | But now X-Fade's on holiday, AIUI. | 18:14 |
| lcuk | thats the most minimal change i can think | 18:14 |
| lcuk | yeah i know | 18:14 |
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| lcuk | so you will have to be careful who you ask to rate your package | 18:15 |
| lcuk | and warn them about this problem | 18:15 |
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| lcuk | btw jaffa the completely standalone flow is in testing http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/liqflow/0.1.1/ | 18:18 |
| ceda | hmm, DNS is not really up to it in scratchbox | 18:19 |
| ceda | updated resolv.conf to reflect the network I'm on now | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | you could install dnsmasq in the host system and change resolv.conf to 127.0.0.1 in scratchbox | 18:21 |
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| ceda | mgedmin: exactly what I started doing :) | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: needs an XB-Maemo-Icon-26 ;-p | 18:23 |
| ceda | except using bind9 instead | 18:23 |
| lcuk | in the .desktop? | 18:23 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: in the debian/control | 18:24 |
| ceda | mgedmin: but changing /etc/resolv.conf doesn't seem to change anything :P | 18:24 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: 48x48 icon, otherwise it looks shit online | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | ceda, also change /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf | 18:24 |
| ceda | I logged out and in of the scratchbox session | 18:24 |
| * lcuk puts hand up | 18:24 | |
| mgedmin | logout is not needed | 18:25 |
| lcuk | did the size increase, but the name didnt change? | 18:25 |
| ceda | mgedmin: aha, I thought the login changed the root (chroot) :P | 18:25 |
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| qwerty12 | lcuk: Bingo. | 18:26 |
| mgedmin | ceda, yes, but there are still two! | 18:26 |
| * lcuk laffs | 18:26 | |
| ceda | mgedmin: I need to read up on that, clearly. :) Thanks anyway | 18:26 |
| mgedmin | from outside chroot, there's /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf and /scratchbox/users/yourusername/targets/whatever/etc/resolv.conf | 18:26 |
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| mgedmin | from inside scratchbox, they're /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf and /etc/resolv.conf | 18:27 |
| mgedmin | (since /scratchbox is bind-mounted inside your current scratchbox target) | 18:27 |
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| mgedmin | I'm guessing that emulated apps use one of the two resolv.confs, and redirected apps use the other one | 18:28 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, see Jaffa has the same opinion that I've about the 'optification' of liqbase ;) | 18:28 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: lcuk: That's because we're *right*. | 18:30 |
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| VDVsx | :) | 18:31 |
| Anidel | mgedmin regarding your charging issue.. | 18:31 |
| * VDVsx kicks maemo-optify in the nuts :p | 18:32 | |
| Anidel | mgedmin: did you try unplug and re-plug it in? often I find out it doesn't start charging first time I plug the charge in.. | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | Anidel, tried it | 18:32 |
| Anidel | mgedmin: ok, so it was something stuck... | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | apparently | 18:33 |
| * mgedmin goes prowling on bugs.maemo.org | 18:33 | |
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| mgedmin | nice how searching for "usb" matches "statusbar" | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | I wish I'd thought to copy dmesg to a file before rebooting | 18:36 |
| * Anidel nods just for fun (actually because wants to nods more than lcuk.. hard!) | 18:38 | |
| zash | mgedmin: egrep -i '\busb\b' | 18:38 |
| * lcuk nods @ Anidel | 18:39 | |
| evo | umm, I don't know if I can ask here about it, but I try anyway; I just started to use the N900 SDK, but I'm not able to start the root shell; I have the Extras repository enabled, but when I click on update nothing happens | 18:39 |
| * Anidel nods back | 18:39 | |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, i was hoping to not have to change all the packages | 18:39 |
| * zash nods at the neck pain | 18:39 | |
| Anidel | (/s/nods/nod in the previous one) | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | evo, you can most certainly ask here | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | I don't use the GUI bits of the SDK, so can't help you there | 18:40 |
| evo | mgedmin: ok, this means that I can play with it even without the GUI, right? | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | if by "play" you mean "compile stuff on the command line", then yes | 18:41 |
| Anidel | evo: what do you mean by root shell? you want to run a root shell inside the Terminal inside the started up virtual "tablet"? | 18:42 |
| Anidel | evo; or simply root inside scratchbox? | 18:42 |
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| evo | Anidel: root shell inside the Terminal | 18:43 |
| Anidel | evo: did you try sudo gainroot? not sure if it works straight away from the Terminal in the emulator window | 18:45 |
| Anidel | evo: but why you'd want that? | 18:45 |
| mgedmin | in the SDK there's no working sudo | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | in the SDK use fakeroot | 18:46 |
| evo | Anidel: I'm probably confused, I just wanted to explore the system without using the GUI, to see which packages are installed, what I can do and so, the first steps to know better the tablet | 18:46 |
| Anidel | well so you can do all of this as soon as you run "scratchbox" and you're in it | 18:47 |
| evo | Anidel: and I thought that using sudo gainroot was the only way possible | 18:47 |
| mgedmin | the SDK is not the system | 18:47 |
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| mgedmin | I don't think you can learn about the tablet by exploring the SDK | 18:47 |
| Anidel | it depends what he wants to play with... scratchbox is essentially a chroot system, you can check packages from there via apt-get/ apt-cache | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | packages installed in the SDK are quite different from packages installed in the real tablet | 18:50 |
| evo | I thought that scratchbox was the chroot with a lot of packages used to run the SDK, but that I needed to launch the "root shell" inside the GUI to see only the real ones used by the tablet | 18:50 |
| Anidel | true, but he wants to learn about the SDK :) moreover.. without a tablet at hand.. it's hard to check what's on it :P :) | 18:51 |
| Anidel | eheh | 18:51 |
| Anidel | evo: yes.. but (I am not sure about this) I think the packages "overlap" in the sense that the ones you install from scratchbox (FREMANTLE_X86) are the ones in the Emulator | 18:52 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: You've got a choice: you can be optified and have easy application development within your framework; or you don't. | 18:52 |
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| evo | Anidel: ok ... so what should I do to "learn" the system? I'd like to try to develop some apps in the future (or maybe to port them to maemo), going thru the scratchbox is what I need? no need to run the GUI? | 18:54 |
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| evo | Anidel: reading a lot of docs is the real first step, of course :P | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | you can test your apps with the SDK GUI, if you don't have a real tablet | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | some system libraries aren't available there, I think | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | e.g. all the GSM stuff ;-) | 18:55 |
| Anidel | evo: indeed:) | 18:55 |
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| pupnik | 8# â¬97 *!< 43!@ 5\8" 5\3< "!â¬, 8 !> ! 5!+)35 %33( | 19:00 |
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| pupnik | i an read that (slowly) | 19:01 |
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| RST38h | back | 19:07 |
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| RST38h | wazd: You are now listed as author on both Diablo and Fremantle versions of ATI85 | 19:07 |
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| * AndrewFBlack doesn't understand why default battery applet doesn't tell you anything about battery like time remaining | 19:08 | |
| RST38h | AFBlack: It is all to make things simpler! The goal of Maemo5 is to make things simpler! | 19:09 |
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| AndrewFBlack | RST38h, I guess that makes some since | 19:10 |
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| RST38h | to some people, anyway | 19:10 |
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| hrw | bye | 19:13 |
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| RST38h | Hmmm... | 19:14 |
| RST38h | VGBA screenshot is back | 19:14 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: It's a power-saving feature | 19:14 |
| lardman | re | 19:14 |
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| RST38h | wait, it shows VGB screenshot when the page is selected | 19:14 |
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| * RST38h cries into the emptiness: SOMEONE! PLEASE! FIX THE DAMN WEBSITE! | 19:15 | |
| RST38h | Is it THAT difficult? | 19:15 |
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| Anidel | the emptiness laughs evily | 19:15 |
| lardman | how does one generate a menu entry for an application? | 19:15 |
| RST38h | hehe | 19:15 |
| RST38h | lardman: via .desktop file? | 19:16 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Put the desktop file in /usr/share/applications/hildon | 19:16 |
| lardman | is there an automated way of doing it, or do I need to provide a desktop file? | 19:16 |
| Anidel | lardman: HildonAppMenu ? | 19:16 |
| Anidel | ah | 19:16 |
| RST38h | lardman: You want help with packaging still? | 19:16 |
| Anidel | sorry.. :) | 19:16 |
| lardman | RST38h: not so much, fiferboy has already sorted the main issue | 19:16 |
| RST38h | ok | 19:16 |
| RST38h | just need a desktop file then | 19:17 |
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| lardman | hmm, I was hoping for a wonderful debianisation method to automatically create it for me | 19:17 |
| fiferboy | lardman: It should already have a desktop file, it is just being installed to the wrong place | 19:17 |
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| lardman | ah, I see | 19:17 |
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| fiferboy | lardman: emerillon-0.1.0/data | 19:18 |
| lardman | yep | 19:18 |
| RST38h | lardman,fiferboy: Folks, do not forget to optify ;) | 19:18 |
| ali1234 | how do i optify a library? | 19:18 |
| RST38h | place it into /opt/maemo/usr/lib | 19:18 |
| lardman | RST38h: not sure it needs it, no data files | 19:18 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Alter emerillon-0.1.0/data/Makefile.am | 19:19 |
| lardman | ah, but the cache... | 19:19 |
| RST38h | lardman: How large is your whole package? | 19:19 |
| ali1234 | how do programs find optified libraries? | 19:19 |
| RST38h | with all the libs? | 19:19 |
| RST38h | ali1234: automagically. | 19:19 |
| ali1234 | in what order? | 19:19 |
| fiferboy | lardman: line 28 becomes $(datadir)/applications/hildon | 19:19 |
| * lardman wonders why hildon has to be different? | 19:20 | |
| lardman | why not just use the standard path for example? | 19:20 |
| RST38h | because it is special, system app, loved by the gods | 19:20 |
| * RST38h notices that maemo.org definitely needs a good manager, one that would not take "it does not work this way" for an answer | 19:21 | |
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| RST38h | (preferably before it gets hit by the wave of unsuspecting n900 buyers) | 19:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: It's just the time for that too! | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | np: Away in a manager. | 19:23 |
| * lardman curses that Automake isn't run | 19:23 | |
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| Anidel | see you guys.. time to leave and head home :) | 19:31 |
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| lardman | well that's pretty shocking, my liblocation changes seem to work out of the box | 19:35 |
| qwerty12 | Screenshot :) | 19:36 |
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| lardman | give me a couple of minutes and I'll push it to extas-devel and you can try for yourselves | 19:36 |
| lardman | hmm, so I seem to be missing a dep on libethos-ui-1.0-0 | 19:37 |
| lardman | but libethos-ui-dev is in the build deps | 19:38 |
| lardman | how do these get passed across? What do ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} do? | 19:38 |
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| fiferboy | qwerty12 knows what they do | 19:42 |
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| dark | hi everybody how i can insert my own alias in maemo | 19:43 |
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| fiferboy | lardman: Add libethos-ui in your configure.ac | 19:44 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Hmm, actually it is already there... | 19:44 |
| RST38h | Ah here he is | 19:44 |
| RST38h | feri: ping? | 19:44 |
| feri | RST38h: pong | 19:45 |
| RST38h | feri: is there any way to fix the image upload process to Downloads, at least for 15-20 minutes? | 19:45 |
| feri | do you mean thumbnails? | 19:46 |
| RST38h | feri: I have been trying to upload screenshots for a few days now | 19:46 |
| RST38h | feri: application screenshots | 19:46 |
| feri | hmm. not in 15-20 mins. | 19:46 |
| RST38h | btw, they also seem to get deleted every time a new app version is promoted | 19:46 |
| RST38h | would you be able to quickly disable this feature? it takes several days to upload a screenshot, removing it means several more days of trying | 19:47 |
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| feri | RST38h: disabling the 'screenshot upload' feature would affect hundreds of projects. | 19:48 |
| feri | i don't think we want to do it. | 19:49 |
| feri | if the whole things is related to the servers being overloaded then we have two options: | 19:49 |
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| feri | a) wait until we move to new ISP | 19:49 |
| feri | b) abandon the whole project | 19:49 |
| feri | it may sound harsh, but that's a fact. | 19:50 |
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| RST38h | feri: No this is not what I asked for | 19:50 |
| feri | you asked for disabling the 'screenshot upload' feature. am i right? | 19:51 |
| RST38h | feri: I asked to disable the feature where promoting a new version of the package to extras deletes all screenshots for this package | 19:51 |
| RST38h | feri: I also asked to *fix* the screenshot upload feature which leads to unpredictable results at the moment | 19:51 |
| feri | ah... ok. that's even a different piece of code :) | 19:51 |
| RST38h | I understand that the site is overloaded at the moment, but why does not it accept screenshot uploads? | 19:52 |
| feri | ok, now i got your question. | 19:53 |
| feri | it has probably nothing to do with load. | 19:53 |
| RST38h | Sorry to bother you with this, X-Fade is out unfortunately | 19:53 |
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| RST38h | Can it be fixed? | 19:53 |
| feri | it is software -> can be fixed | 19:53 |
| feri | frankly: tonight i was going to open a bottle of wine and have some good time with family | 19:54 |
| RST38h | can it be fixed in time that is comparable to the time needed to open a bottle of wine? =) | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | sounds like a plan, feri :) | 19:55 |
| * Stskeeps has same plan | 19:55 | |
| feri | RST38h: no, definitely not. reason: i do not know the code. | 19:55 |
| RST38h | feri: Is there a person who knows this code? Does this person have contact information? | 19:56 |
| feri | RST38h: i know where to find it, i know how to make my changes "live". but.... | 19:56 |
| feri | sure there is... the guy is on his way to Oz | 19:56 |
| * RST38h sighs | 19:56 | |
| feri | but you also have access to the code. | 19:56 |
| RST38h | How can I access the code? I am willing to look at it and try fixing it | 19:57 |
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| feri | RST38h: ok, just a sec. i will give you an url | 20:00 |
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| feri | RST38h: the component handling "packages" is here: https://svn.midgard-project.org/midgard/branches/ragnaroek/midcom/org.maemo.packages | 20:01 |
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| Stskeeps | cool, didn't know it was actually oss | 20:04 |
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| * timeless_mbp arrives at civilization: tpac | 20:05 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, pong? | 20:06 |
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| RST38h | feri: thanks! | 20:07 |
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| feri | RST38h: no probs. setting up a test environment for Midgard components might be hard, but if you give me a patch we can apply it quickly. | 20:10 |
| RST38h | feri: I doubt I will be able to do this without knowing the code and ability to test it | 20:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I like all the people who still haven't updated their avatars after the Talk changeover. | 20:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can only see their left eyes. | 20:14 |
| wazd | qwerty12: liar! | 20:14 |
| RST38h | avatars? who needs an avatar? | 20:14 |
| wazd | qwerty12: :D | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | i kinda like the switchover way of trimming my avatar. | 20:15 |
| qwerty12 | wazd: "Hi" to you, too :p | 20:15 |
| wazd | qwerty12: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5956 | 20:15 |
| wazd | qwerty12: dirty lies! :D | 20:15 |
| qwerty12 | I did have it once :\ | 20:16 |
| qwerty12 | Having my device in Spanish probably did not help matters :) | 20:16 |
| wazd | qwerty12: that's what she said :D | 20:16 |
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| RST38h | feri: Ok, the files at the URL you have given appear to deal with package promotions and queues | 20:17 |
| qwerty12 | wazd: Although I think I was using an older version (*tries to redeem himself*) | 20:17 |
| RST38h | feri: There is nothing about editing product info there, except maybe style/package*edit.php | 20:18 |
| RST38h | which are mostly empty and refer to some external form data | 20:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I love all of the underclocked Android phones. | 20:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Goes to show you exactly how well Android performs. | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | underclocked? | 20:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sholes is at 550MHz | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 20:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Snapdragon one is at 768MHz | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | wow. | 20:24 |
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| pupnik | how do i run android apps on n900 | 20:28 |
| RST38h | General: They will probably go JIT in a few generations and then it becomes faster | 20:28 |
| pupnik | should be possible | 20:28 |
| RST38h | BTW, anyone is doing Android "port" to N900? | 20:28 |
| pupnik | no? | 20:28 |
| pupnik | :) | 20:28 |
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| pupnik | if maemo = maemo + linux_apps + android | 20:30 |
| pupnik | then maemo > android | 20:30 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: from your equation it follows that linux_apps+android=0 | 20:31 |
| RST38h | so linux_apps=-android | 20:31 |
| pupnik | lol | 20:31 |
| RST38h | There are two solutions to that | 20:31 |
| RST38h | 1. linux_apps are actually anti-android | 20:31 |
| RST38h | 2. both linux_apps and android are absolute zeros | 20:31 |
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| RST38h | If we switch from plan math to physics and assume that your "=" is actually "~=", then there is a third solution | 20:32 |
| RST38h | linux_apps+android=epsilon where epsilon is insignificant when compared to android, i.e. "we do not give a shit" about it | 20:33 |
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| RST38h | compared to android/compared to maemo/ sorry | 20:34 |
| pupnik | i (maemo_apps == native_maemo_apps + linux_apps + android_apps) then (aemo_apps > androidÃ_apps | 20:35 |
| pupnik | smth | 20:35 |
| pupnik | term error | 20:36 |
| RST38h | you can scratch linux_apps off, they are not available any more except for command line ones | 20:38 |
| RST38h | Fremantle strayed too far from the normal Unix/X11 model | 20:38 |
| ali1234 | "command line ones" is most of them | 20:38 |
| pupnik | should be able to wrap even tcl/tk stuff into n900 RST38h | 20:40 |
| pupnik | but... let us rather not | 20:40 |
| RST38h | yea... | 20:40 |
| RST38h | google widgets may work too | 20:41 |
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| pupnik | i just wanted to hilÃight the usefulness of being able to run other people's stuff. | 20:42 |
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| VDVsx | ehehe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTtEeTuc1Hw | 20:43 |
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| beford|n810 | pupnik http://www.maemoapps.com/2009/02/26/android-vm-running-on-the-n800/ | 20:44 |
| RST38h | pupnik: only useful when this stuff remains useful =) | 20:44 |
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| pupnik | wooo | 20:45 |
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| pupnik | borg mode... asssssimilate assssssimilate | 20:45 |
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| RST38h | You will be asss... asss... joined with us! | 20:46 |
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| RST38h | ok, two more screenshots left to upload | 20:47 |
| ali1234 | so, it turns out optifying a library isn't quite as simple as moving it to /opt/maemo/usr/lib | 20:47 |
| RST38h | why? | 20:47 |
| ali1234 | because the debian/rules file of this library chokes if prefix=anything other than /usr | 20:47 |
| RST38h | umgh | 20:48 |
| ali1234 | because it builds four packages, two of which are -dev | 20:48 |
| aquat1x | pupnik: exterminate *exterminate* ? | 20:48 |
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| RST38h | aquatix: ROB! MURDER! HUMP THE GEESE! | 20:49 |
| ali1234 | so i have two choices: set prefix=/opt/maemo/usr, fix all the hardcoded paths, and then do a workaround to make the -dev packages not optified (because the SDK doesn;t have it) | 20:49 |
| Xisdibik | RST38h, Nice thing for me to see first thing coming into the channel :P | 20:50 |
| lardman | fiferboy: yeah | 20:50 |
| ali1234 | or leave the prefix as it is, and do a hack to make the libs get moved after dh_install | 20:50 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: You had me at "HUMP THE GEESE!" | 20:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, pong! | 20:50 |
| lardman | fiferboy: but it's a control file issue not a build-time issue | 20:50 |
| RST38h | Xisdibik: Working dily to keep you happy =) | 20:50 |
| toggles_w | beford|n810: wow, that's pretty damn awesome, wish it was "real" | 20:50 |
| pupnik | aquat1x: yes, my mixed sci-fi tv metaphor-seeing friend | 20:50 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: sorry, getting there | 20:50 |
| RST38h | daily | 20:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, faster! | 20:50 |
| ali1234 | but when i tried the later i got a package with libs in both /usr *and* /opt | 20:50 |
| pupnik | pussycat, | 20:50 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: someone contacted me about a cloak, I was away, whom should I talk to? | 20:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, are they still online? | 20:51 |
| RST38h | qwerty: The original started with "The end of the world is near" | 20:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | If so, contact them. | 20:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | If not, either memoserv them or ask in #freenode. | 20:51 |
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| ali1234 | i hope maemo6 doesn't have this opt mess | 20:53 |
| ali1234 | it's not like there isn't 101 better ways to handle it | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody should get crackin' on an aufs solution. | 20:54 |
| RST38h | ali1234: May it have something to do with having to compile -dev stuff? It does not get installed to the device normally, does it? | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Heck, there's even a slim chance it could be integrated into Maemo 5 if done correctly. | 20:54 |
| ali1234 | RST38h: -dev gets installed in the sdk normally | 20:54 |
| ali1234 | RST38h: you need -dev if you want to actually be able to link against the library | 20:54 |
| RST38h | General: there was an idea to just do unionfs of / and /opt | 20:54 |
| qwerty12_N900 | maemo-optify is a half-assed tool. | 20:55 |
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| RST38h | ali1234: Yes, but maybe you can install -dev into /usr/lib and install the actual library into /opt? | 20:55 |
| RST38h | And don't use maemo-optify as it is evil? | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | RST38h: yes, that's the idea | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | in practice it is hard | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | because the way the debs are built consists of: configure, make, make install, cherry pick required parts into individual trees, build debs | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | so the same prefix has to be used for all four resulting debs | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | so then you have to add hacks after the cherry picking is done | 20:56 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: problem with aufs is making sure it's unmounted before applying MU (although it already goes offline n' stuff | 20:58 |
| Jaffa | m-vo was pitching whole rootfs on eMMC | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | well, i think i've done it | 20:58 |
| fiferboy | lardman: I /msg'd you with a better solution | 20:58 |
| RST38h | that would be slow | 20:58 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: indeed | 20:59 |
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| ali1234 | anybody want to look at the results, and tell me if i'm doing it right? | 20:59 |
| kami | hi all | 20:59 |
| RST38h | Maybe two eMMC in a RAID0 configuration? :) | 20:59 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: heh | 20:59 |
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| ali1234 | why didn't they put /usr onto mmc? | 20:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, somebody still needs to do that on the N800. | 21:00 |
| RST38h | ali: too slow | 21:00 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, can LVM make two separate partitions look like one contiguous FS? | 21:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | ali1234, because it's freaking slow | 21:00 |
| RST38h | 16bit interface, 48MHz or so | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | RST38h: anything that actually needs speed (ie nokia stuff) can go on / | 21:00 |
| RST38h | maybe even less | 21:00 |
| Jaffa | ali1234: and they'd need to change the flashing tools | 21:00 |
| RST38h | ali1234: and so it does :) | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | but it doesn't need to go in /usr | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | they should have put all the nokia stuff into /opt | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | and then all the extra packages can go in /usr | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | you know, like how it's supposed to be | 21:01 |
| zaheer_ | then your phone will run slowly :) | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | that way, only nokia built in packages would need to be specially modified for maemo | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | zaheer_: it would be *exactly* the same as it is now | 21:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | As a user, I'd rather have the speed. | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | except everything currently in /opt would be in /usr and everything currently in /usr would be in /opt, and /opt would be on / and /usr would be on mmc | 21:02 |
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| ali1234 | you're not listening | 21:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Urg | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | it wouldn't affect speed at all | 21:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | That sounds . . . unpleasant. | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | not at all | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | it would be a win for everyone concerned | 21:02 |
| zaheer_ | probably as unpleasant as now | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | because instead of having to modify every single package ever except the nokia stuff which nobody else even uses | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | only the nokia stuff would have to be modded, and everything else could be installed with prefix=/usr | 21:03 |
| ali1234 | ie without having to hack the existing package scripts | 21:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | ali1234, well, ideally, we're going to be able to do it at the autobuilder in a month or two. | 21:03 |
| ali1234 | to the user, this would be 100% invisible | 21:03 |
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| dark | anyone knows where i can insert my own alias in n810 | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | there's just no way you can automate optification with 100% success, if only because of buggy programs with hardcoded paths | 21:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | How is it that the 770 managed to get far and away the best buttons of any Maemo device? | 21:15 |
| dark | i need help with maemo | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | ok, why doesn't app manager see my updated deb? | 21:16 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: The slider lock on the N900 is pretty good... | 21:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, it's OK, I prefer the one on my 5800, honestly. | 21:17 |
| ali1234 | apt-get upgrade sees it... | 21:17 |
| * qwerty12_N900 misses the fullscreen button | 21:17 | |
| * GeneralAntilles chuckles at qole's response on -community. | 21:18 | |
| fiferboy | ali1234: Is it in user/* for a package section? | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | fiferboy: no. what section should i put libs in? | 21:18 |
| * fiferboy doesn't care for the camera button | 21:18 | |
| fiferboy | ali1234: libs don't go in user/*, so you are correct | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | ali1234, libs don't show up in h-a-m. | 21:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ali1234, they're pulled in as dependencies. | 21:18 |
| fiferboy | But the app manager doesn't update libs (unless they are required for a user/* package) | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | the app that uses my lib is installed, as is an old (not optified) version of the lib | 21:19 |
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| ali1234 | so how do i install the new optified lib package? | 21:19 |
| fiferboy | ali1234: I think the proper method is to update the app that requires the lib, and have it require the newest version of the lib | 21:19 |
| ali1234 | rather, how do people who don't know to use apt-get install it? | 21:19 |
| fiferboy | ali1234: Then HAM will detect the new version of the application and pull the new version of the library with it | 21:20 |
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| ali1234 | that's a horrible solution | 21:20 |
| fiferboy | Why is that? | 21:21 |
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| ali1234 | what if i am the maintainer of some lib, and somebody else is maintaining the app that uses it, and i find a security bug in the lib | 21:21 |
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| ali1234 | then i have to get the other guy to do a version bump | 21:21 |
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| fiferboy | Right, it is not a good solution in that scenario | 21:22 |
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| ali1234 | not to mention that the lib might be 100k and the app that uses it is 100mb | 21:22 |
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| fiferboy | So your solution would be to silently update libraries as they become available? | 21:23 |
| VDVsx | well, that least this way your apps don't stop working automagically, as happens when you updated libs randomly. | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | no, my solution would be to show library updates along side all the others | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | the same way any other distro ever made does it | 21:24 |
| ali1234 | VDVsx: that's why libs have version numbers | 21:24 |
| VDVsx | ali1234, do you think that might be a bit confusion for regular users ? | 21:25 |
| ali1234 | no | 21:25 |
| VDVsx | lol,ok | 21:25 |
| ali1234 | updates are updates | 21:25 |
| VDVsx | no further discussion than ;) | 21:25 |
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| dark | anyone can help im having problems with my xterm | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have you tried hitting it with a stick? | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | dark: you want to change the prompt? | 21:32 |
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| dark | yes | 21:32 |
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| dark | when i open xterm you ll see a prompt on the left side it like this ~ $ | 21:33 |
| Captain_Picard | what did i say about | 21:33 |
| Captain_Picard | n900 getting delayd to january! | 21:33 |
| Captain_Picard | no body belived me | 21:34 |
| Captain_Picard | december | 21:34 |
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| Captain_Picard | now its delayd to december already ;) | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, erm, it's shipping this month. :) | 21:34 |
| Captain_Picard | its not :) | 21:34 |
| dark | when type root i cant see my prompt change only appear /home/user # and i want to show like this Nokia-N810-43-7:~# | 21:34 |
| kami | what ? no kidding ? it just moved to november :( | 21:34 |
| dmj7261 | what!?! | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is. :) | 21:35 |
| Captain_Picard | its delayd to december! | 21:35 |
| Captain_Picard | show me proof GeneralAntilles | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, source, please, before you start a riot. :) | 21:35 |
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| dmj7261 | source please! | 21:35 |
| Captain_Picard | you first! | 21:35 |
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| dmj7261 | I don't think this cruel joke is funny | 21:35 |
| zaheer_ | Captain_Picard, source: i have one already :) | 21:35 |
| dark | anyone can help | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=355093#post355093 | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, you're on thin ice here. | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Warning #1. | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | dark: looks like it's hardcoded in busybox | 21:37 |
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| ali1234 | normally you would set PS1 variable but that doesn't work | 21:37 |
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| dark | before i could that | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | oh my bad | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | it does work | 21:38 |
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| ali1234 | you need to do this: export PS1='\h:\w\$ ' | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | now as to how to make it do that every time you launch xterm... i don't know | 21:39 |
| RST38h | General: Judging how many public bugzilla trackers have got internal IDs, Peter is telling the truth | 21:40 |
| dark | all these setting can store in bashrc | 21:40 |
| dark | or i need to create a bash_profile | 21:40 |
| RST38h | General: The *are* working on the community reported bugs | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, internal just means Andre forwarded them. | 21:41 |
| ali1234 | dark: probably ~/.bashrc or ~/.profile | 21:41 |
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| RST38h | General: Some public bugs also had priority bumped up | 21:42 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, Quim also said today that regular users will start using the device this month (-community, spring thread) | 21:42 |
| VDVsx | *sprint thread | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, yes, that's another source I had at hand. | 21:42 |
| dark | for example in this part when i open xterm you ll see a prompt on the left side it like this ~ $ i installed the bash-setup here | 21:42 |
| dark | now change the prompt with colors | 21:43 |
| dark | where is located the PS1 settings | 21:43 |
| Captain_Picard | 22.10 GeneralAntilles that is very old | 21:43 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, and you'll got a Fixed in Fremantle shirt ;) eheh | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, 11/02/09, however, is not. | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, I'll ask you to provide your source or kindly shut up. :) | 21:44 |
| Captain_Picard | i will provide it dont worry | 21:44 |
| VDVsx | not that it will be released only in selected markets | 21:44 |
| VDVsx | some countries will only get it in Dec/Jan | 21:44 |
| VDVsx | at least is what the Nokia stores say around here | 21:45 |
| Captain_Picard | Saunalahti-operaattori on myös tarjonnut tuoretta tietoa N900:n saatavuudesta. Saunalahden Palstalla-keskusteluosiossa operaattorin edustaja on kertonut Nokian arvioineen Suomen toimitusten alkavan joulukuun alussa. | 21:45 |
| Captain_Picard | http://www.puhelinvertailu.com/uutiset.cfm/2009/11/02/nokia_n900_n_odotus_jatkuu_toimitukset_jalleen_parilla_viikolla_eteenpain | 21:45 |
| * VDVsx opens google translator | 21:45 | |
| Captain_Picard | Nokia says they are planning to start shipping last week in november but it wont be before december | 21:46 |
| Captain_Picard | and phone operator says that nokia will provide phones in december | 21:46 |
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| Captain_Picard | and finland will be first | 21:46 |
| Captain_Picard | on the shipping list | 21:46 |
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| Captain_Picard | this news came today | 21:47 |
| Captain_Picard | D: | 21:47 |
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| dmj7261 | perhaps unlocked ones will come first? | 21:48 |
| Captain_Picard | all the devices are unlocked here | 21:48 |
| Captain_Picard | finland | 21:48 |
| VDVsx | eheheh -> "Nokia has previously estimated may have underestimated the N900's future success" | 21:48 |
| dmj7261 | I mean not through carriers. | 21:48 |
| VDVsx | crap translation, but still | 21:48 |
| dmj7261 | In the USA, Tmobile won't carry it right away. | 21:49 |
| Captain_Picard | well Tmobile is alot bigger | 21:49 |
| Captain_Picard | and its slow getting new products for everyone | 21:49 |
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| * RST38h politely asks if we can bury the topic of N900 delays | 21:52 | |
| DantonicN800 | damn it! why does my n800 keep losing my email info? cannot find the inbox, then the account disappears. | 21:53 |
| RST38h | Or at least simplify it to before/after Christmas | 21:53 |
| RST38h | Dantonic: Modest? | 21:53 |
| DantonicN800 | yes, let's talk about my n800 instead | 21:53 |
| DantonicN800 | yes | 21:53 |
| RST38h | When it tells you to edit your account details, it does not mean your account has been lost | 21:54 |
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| RST38h | It simply means Modest failed connecting to your account for some reason and THINKS you need to enter credentials anew | 21:54 |
| DantonicN800 | unable to select server inbox, restart application and try again | 21:54 |
| RST38h | Simpler thing you can do is quickly delete and type back a single letter in your login name in those account details, then OK the dialog | 21:55 |
| RST38h | A better thing is to stop using Modest and switch to Claws. Modest is broken. | 21:55 |
| DantonicN800 | but my account doesnt even exist anymore in modest. cant edit it under accounts. it just disappears | 21:55 |
| DantonicN800 | i see | 21:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | killall modest is effective for me. | 21:55 |
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| NeoStrider770 | “Operation failed” upon installing xchat. What to do ? | 21:55 |
| RST38h | yea that works | 21:56 |
| DantonicN800 | i kinda like the way modest arranges thimgs, just wish it would work. i'll check out claws | 21:56 |
| RST38h | NeoStrider: Is it installed though? | 21:56 |
| RST38h | Dantonic: It will not. Not in Diablo anyway | 21:56 |
| NeoStrider770 | Yeah .using it right now | 21:56 |
| RST38h | NeoStrider: then disregard | 21:57 |
| RST38h | Something in the postinst script may have failed | 21:57 |
| dark | i install rootsh and i cant insert my own alias in bashrc what can i do | 21:57 |
| DantonicN800 | i really hope they don't abandon naemo5 like they did with diablo | 21:57 |
| NeoStrider770 | (Thats why it takes me forever to answer) | 21:57 |
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| NeoStrider770 | But preenting me to do anything else apt-related | 21:58 |
| gnuton | hi | 21:58 |
| * wazd 's working on maemo.org package assistant :) | 21:58 | |
| wazd | or download client | 21:58 |
| wazd | whatever :D | 21:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: Alternative App manager? | 21:58 |
| DantonicN800 | hey irc question, how do i link this username to my 'Dantonic' one? does this one have to be registered separately first? | 21:58 |
| gnuton | do anyone of you know where i can found a working version of QMake? | 21:59 |
| gnuton | sorry CMake | 21:59 |
| wazd | RST38h: sort of | 21:59 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://danielwilms.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/download-client-for-applications-in-extras/ | 21:59 |
| RST38h | wazd: Oh just what I always wanted =) | 22:00 |
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| wazd | RST38h: yeah, idea is really nice, that's why I've decided to help with visuals :) | 22:01 |
| RST38h | wazd: it does not have to be maemo.org themed by the way =) | 22:02 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, I'll try to keep the theme with some improvements :) | 22:03 |
| RST38h | like...massive improvements? | 22:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'll try to make it adorable :) | 22:04 |
| lcuk | make it functional. its a kickass idea thats been requested for a long time, i hope daniel gets all the help needed with it | 22:05 |
| lcuk | wazd, thanks for gettin involved! | 22:05 |
| ali1234 | yeah.... so putting optifying the lib hasn't worked | 22:05 |
| ali1234 | now my app can;t find the lib | 22:05 |
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| Anwarboy11 | Anyone here orderd the n900 from mobilephonesdirect | 22:09 |
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| Anwarboy11 | Anyone here orderd the n900 from mobilephonesdirect | 22:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Anwarboy11: I almost did, but I diddn't. | 22:11 |
| Anwarboy11 | hmm kk | 22:12 |
| Anwarboy11 | where u orderd from now | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | nokia | 22:12 |
| Anwarboy11 | oh kk | 22:12 |
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| Anwarboy11 | they gonna ship a coupleof days early | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | There was some offer codes. | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 22:13 |
| Anwarboy11 | do you know if the handsets that mpd will ship r unlocked? | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | they said so to me | 22:13 |
| Anwarboy11 | all of n900 | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | mpd | 22:13 |
| Anwarboy11 | kk | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | when I contacted them about this. | 22:13 |
| Anwarboy11 | n900 is unlocked : confirmed | 22:14 |
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| RST38h | "Treasure Island, a free, public domain book, is available for purchase as a standalone app from over a dozen different developers, in all kinds of containers, at all kinds of prices." | 22:15 |
| RST38h | Ah, the wonders of iPhone app development... | 22:15 |
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| * RST38h is gonna do this to the whole Gutenberg library | 22:16 | |
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| ali1234 | so, optifying libraries is currently impossible, because /etc/ld.so.conf does not reference any directories on /opt | 22:16 |
| javispedro | RST38h: lemme guess, they're counting iphone apps by the billions now? | 22:16 |
| ali1234 | so the libs will never be found | 22:16 |
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| RST38h | javis: Still have not reached a million, but give 'em time | 22:17 |
| RST38h | ali1234: Make a symbolic link from /usr/lib | 22:17 |
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| ali1234 | great, more workarounds | 22:17 |
| RST38h | javis: Thanks for the OpenTTD btw, promote it to testing and I will vote for it | 22:17 |
| javispedro | RST38h: did you test yestarday's -devel one? | 22:18 |
| Anwarboy11 | im really worried that these new android phones will be better than n900 | 22:18 |
| javispedro | (current one) | 22:18 |
| Anwarboy11 | like the motorola droid ---- looks good | 22:18 |
| RST38h | javis: Yep | 22:18 |
| Anwarboy11 | people say its better than n900 | 22:18 |
| * javispedro jumps crazily, full of joy | 22:18 | |
| dmj7261 | still android | 22:18 |
| RST38h | javis: it has got some problems (parts of dialogs still do not show up especially in windowed pixeldoubled mode) but works like a charm otherwise | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | RST38h: what happened to "automagically"? | 22:19 |
| RST38h | ali1234: nokia ate it | 22:19 |
| GuySoft | hey, is there a way to upgrade from os2006 to os2008? is there a link for that anywhere? | 22:19 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: btw, purge the package (specially openttd-data) and reinstall to get it optified | 22:20 |
| javispedro | or else just symlink /usr/share/games/openttd to your pleasure | 22:20 |
| javispedro | (binary, debug packages, data, everything is now there) | 22:20 |
| Dantonic | GuySoft, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 22:21 |
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| * javispedro promotes | 22:22 | |
| javispedro | and goes to back to hacking xorg... | 22:22 |
| GuySoft | Dasajev, nothing on 770 in there | 22:22 |
| GuySoft | sorry | 22:22 |
| GuySoft | Dantonic, ^ | 22:22 |
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| Dantonic | GuySoft, oh sorry idk if you can put os2008 on the 770 | 22:24 |
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| Khertan | Hello ! | 22:28 |
| Khertan | just a quick question : does there is a way to show extension in a hildon chooser dialog ? | 22:28 |
| Khertan | i didn t find anything in the python api | 22:29 |
| fiferboy | Khertan: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/hildonfm/HildonFileChooserDialog.html#hildon-file-chooser-dialog-add-extensions-combo | 22:30 |
| fiferboy | Obviously not Python, but hopefully helpful | 22:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dantonic, it wont work if it's registered separately first. | 22:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which used not to be the case. | 22:30 |
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| RST38h | javis: checking | 22:33 |
| johnsq | Hi | 22:33 |
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| Dantonic | GeneralAntilles, so Dantonic is registered... but DantonicN800 is not... will that work? | 22:33 |
| Dantonic | cause I cant make it work :P | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | /msg nickserv help group | 22:34 |
| Dantonic | !whoami | 22:34 |
| Dantonic | err | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Identify as Dantonic on DantonicN800 then group them. | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, it's obnoxious | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, it was easier before the last services upgrade. :( | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | But Freenode likes to keep you on your toes. ;) | 22:34 |
| Dantonic | ok thought I was doing something wrong | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, something makes me think qole has some rather nicer public schools in his area than we do around here. ;) | 22:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ah, murrayc snagged #6000. | 22:38 |
| * GeneralAntilles goes VERIFY/CONFIRMing | 22:39 | |
| dark | where i can configure PS1 setting to be permanent in n810 | 22:41 |
| RST38h | javis: purged reinstalled, still creates /usr/share/games/openttd | 22:41 |
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| SmilybOrg | \o | 22:42 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: You're talking to a wall :) | 22:42 |
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| RST38h | ah who cares, as long as it makes me feel better... | 22:43 |
| * qwerty12_N900 throws RST38h a stress ball | 22:43 | |
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| RST38h | javis: it always installs into /usr/share/games/openttd | 22:49 |
| javispedro | RST38h: thats the idea, but with the preinst script creating /usr/share/games/openttd -> /opt/openttd symlink | 22:49 |
| javispedro | if it does not exist already. | 22:49 |
| RST38h | javis: does not happen | 22:50 |
| RST38h | no link | 22:50 |
| javispedro | did you purge the package? | 22:50 |
| javispedro | if it's upgrading it won't create the link. | 22:50 |
| RST38h | yes I did purge and deleted directory manually afterwards | 22:50 |
| RST38h | and it said that it was installing previously deselected package | 22:51 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: did it print anything in stdout while installing? | 22:53 |
| javispedro | it prints "Installing to /opt/openttd/..." here. | 22:53 |
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| RST38h | nope | 22:54 |
| RST38h | ok full purge again | 22:54 |
| jeremiah | lardman: pong | 22:54 |
| RST38h | removing openttd, openttd-data and openttd-opengfx seems to have made a difference | 22:56 |
| RST38h | installing to /opt/openttd now | 22:56 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: openttd-data is the "important one" actually. every other package depends on it. | 22:56 |
| javispedro | (it is "owner" of /usr/share/games/openttd folder) | 22:56 |
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| RST38h | ah | 23:00 |
| Smily | guys, if in esbox at the machine validation stage i get the SMB Mount credentials user/pass dialog, is it able to connect already? i tried various user/pass combinations and nothing seems to work :| | 23:00 |
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| RST38h | worked now | 23:00 |
| javispedro | ta! | 23:00 |
| Smily | or should i be using the shared folders functionality that's already in virtualbox? | 23:00 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I thought about a one word response, "Meh" but thought it better to let the sub-thread die. | 23:05 |
| Khertan | thx fiferboy i m looking | 23:06 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: ping | 23:06 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: I believe he's on a plane | 23:07 |
| javispedro | ouch. | 23:07 |
| fiferboy | Khertan: I haven't used it, but I came across it the other day | 23:07 |
| jeremiah | ferenc is X-Fade | 23:07 |
| jeremiah | For the month of November | 23:07 |
| jeremiah | javispedro: Can I help you? | 23:07 |
| sp3000 | romaxa: so hm, the geoloc deb from extras-devel seems to go only halfway in gmaps -- it asks and gives me the blue dot but I don't seem to get anything on the map | 23:08 |
| javispedro | Well. When a package has both Pre-Depends and Depends, the autobuilder only considers Pre-Depends packages for autopromotion. | 23:08 |
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| jeremiah | okya. | 23:09 |
| jeremiah | or okay rather. | 23:09 |
| javispedro | :) | 23:09 |
| jeremiah | We made need to discuss that on maemo-dev. | 23:09 |
| romaxa | sp3000: does it work on http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/geolocation/ ? | 23:10 |
| sp3000 | romaxa: that page seems to have disappeared | 23:10 |
| Khertan | fiferboy at least you help me on the other question which i didn t ask yet : autonaming | 23:10 |
| Khertan | :) | 23:10 |
| RST38h | moo, romaxa | 23:10 |
| fiferboy | Khertan: :D | 23:10 |
| javispedro | what would happen if I promote to testing the depending non user/* packages "manually"? | 23:10 |
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| javispedro | I guess another QA voting paging will be created, thus causing havoc. | 23:11 |
| jeremiah | javispedro: I thought things like libs did not show up in the testing interface? | 23:11 |
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| jeremiah | javispedro: So you could not be sure you got all dependencies. | 23:11 |
| javispedro | jeremiah: that's the idea AFAIU. but since it didn't got the deps right, -testing has now a broken package | 23:12 |
| jeremiah | javispedro: Does it? Which one? | 23:12 |
| jeremiah | I can try to fix it. | 23:12 |
| javispedro | jeremiah: openttd, depending on openttd-opengfx . | 23:12 |
| sp3000 | romaxa: oh, they've broken it for .fi | 23:12 |
| javispedro | (which is missing) | 23:12 |
| sp3000 | http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/geolocation/ works :) | 23:12 |
| javispedro | (from testing :) ) | 23:12 |
| javispedro | jeremiah: btw, noticed that http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/openttd/0.7.3-1maemo1 does not show the full deps either. only Pre-Depends . | 23:13 |
| sp3000 | er, loads, rather, didn't get to the other flavor of working | 23:13 |
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| jeremiah | javispedro: Yeah - I think that might be a bug. | 23:13 |
| jeremiah | Good catch. | 23:13 |
| jeremiah | I will try and fix the openttd-opengfx manually | 23:14 |
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| javispedro | jeremiah: thanks! :) | 23:14 |
| sp3000 | romaxa: yeah geoloc does appear towork on the fx test page | 23:14 |
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| jeremiah | But I think we'll have to wait until X-Fade returns since he is the one who has hacked togther the extras-testing interface. | 23:14 |
| romaxa | sp3000: btw, how to get geolocation works on google maps? is there are any option or button? | 23:15 |
| jeremiah | I will take this up with ferenc too, in case he is familiar with the code | 23:15 |
| sp3000 | romaxa: heh I only found out today | 23:15 |
| romaxa | sp3000: I found on flickr/map "find my location" and it works | 23:15 |
| sp3000 | it's the small circular thing in the zoom streetview etc controls stack | 23:15 |
| javispedro | jeremiah: don't worry, hope he enjoys his trip :) | 23:15 |
| jeremiah | heh, I think he will. :) | 23:15 |
| sp3000 | so under the arrows, above the streetview dude | 23:16 |
| romaxa | sp3000: yep I see it | 23:17 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, I think you can promote libs without problems, I did it a few weeks ago, dunno if there's some changes now | 23:18 |
| VDVsx | the libs will appear here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/all/fremantle_extras-testing/ | 23:18 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: would they get a separate voting page? | 23:18 |
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| javispedro | I see. | 23:18 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, that one^ | 23:18 |
| javispedro | that means I'd need everyone voting for openttd to vote there, otherwise the package would be non installable | 23:19 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, no | 23:19 |
| VDVsx | they will be auto-promote with the packages | 23:19 |
| VDVsx | like happens from -devel to -testing | 23:20 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx: that's the issue here. For weird reasons it's not considering all dependencies for promotion. | 23:20 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, the missing ones are in the depends field ? | 23:21 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx: yep. seems like if the interface was only considering Pre-Depends for autopromotion. | 23:21 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, strange, it have worked for me so far | 23:23 |
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| javispedro | did you use Pre-Depends in any of them? | 23:24 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Simple: Move everything from Depends to Pre-Depends, then! | 23:25 |
| * qwerty12_N900 hides | 23:25 | |
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| * javispedro 's use of Pre-Depends is probably unjustified though... | 23:25 | |
| javispedro | but hey, I do want the -data package to be unpacked before unpacking the binaries one. | 23:26 |
| javispedro | else here be dragons when installing to card in diablo. | 23:26 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, nop, only depends :( | 23:26 |
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| dmj7261 | Anyone know why the camera does not have autofocus while recording video? | 23:29 |
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| * ShadowJK suspects the spec | 23:30 | |
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| ShadowJK | refocus on half-press would be pretty nice though | 23:31 |
| dmj7261 | I would like some manual control of the zoom if possible too. | 23:32 |
| dmj7261 | Perhaps a swirling motion on the screen? | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | the volume keys do nothing? | 23:33 |
| pupnik | the volume keys! | 23:33 |
| dmj7261 | I mean focus | 23:33 |
| dmj7261 | not zoom | 23:33 |
| RST38h | Man-Eating Lions Exaggerate Body Count | 23:33 |
| Khertan | sniff i try to install pluthon and connectivity ... pc host connectivity not availaible on linux 64bits .... and deb corrupted for maemo :( | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK | i'd try the bugzilla lottery with videofocus first | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | I imagine continous autofocus might hunt in and out of focus all the time though | 23:34 |
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| dmj7261 | I'm not asking for autofocus all the time. | 23:34 |
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| ShadowJK | on my s60 e-series video is fixed-focus to infinity or something stupid :-( | 23:35 |
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| dmj7261 | how do you do macro shots on it? | 23:36 |
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| ShadowJK | macro video shots? you don't | 23:38 |
| dmj7261 | heh | 23:38 |
| dmj7261 | I bet close-ups get a bit blurry? | 23:38 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 23:38 |
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| ShadowJK | text on a document can not be made readable | 23:39 |
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| dmj7261 | That's awful. | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | quite | 23:39 |
| dmj7261 | do you have an n900 yet? | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | the camera seems capable though, since when taking photos it can focus quite near, something like 5-10cm | 23:40 |
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| ShadowJK | no :-( | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | they still aren't shipping, grrr :) | 23:40 |
| dmj7261 | "the camera seems capable though, since when taking photos it can focus quite near, something like 5-10cm" ->for n900? | 23:41 |
| Xisdibik | Off to class, later all | 23:41 |
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| ShadowJK | No I wasn't talking about n900 ther | 23:41 |
| ShadowJK | e | 23:41 |
| ali1234 | dmj7261: n900 has a macro mode for stills but not video | 23:41 |
| wazd | http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/0911/b7/29a123e14e5b.png <- some very rough mockup :) | 23:41 |
| lardman | ~lart broken washing machines | 23:43 |
| * infobot raises middle finger to broken washing machines | 23:43 | |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I'd have the screenshot size. | 23:43 |
| RST38h | wazd: think of some frame around search field and button | 23:43 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if the always-out-of-focus-in-video-mode thing can be fixed in sofware or if it's hardwired | 23:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/have/halve/ | 23:43 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: wazd, I'd halve the screenshot size. | 23:43 |
| lardman | anyone know how to do GTK version #ifdefs? | 23:43 |
| dmj7261 | is the camera source open? | 23:43 |
| lardman | dmj7261: yes | 23:43 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: not sure that it will show anything distinguishable then | 23:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think there should be at least 4 items onscreen. | 23:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or at least another list view option. | 23:45 |
| dmj7261 | is that GDigicam? | 23:46 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: maybe, some "no shots" mode | 23:46 |
| lardman | dmj7261: no, the src itself is in one of the GStreamer elements | 23:46 |
| dmj7261 | camerabin? | 23:47 |
| lardman | yep | 23:47 |
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| VDVsx | wazd, like it :) but agree with RST38h | 23:51 |
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| VDVsx | oh, hot discussions in the ML | 23:53 |
| * VDVsx grabs some popcorns | 23:53 | |
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| dmj7261 | this appears to handle the focus: http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-gdigicam/gdigicam/blobs/master/src/gdigicam-manager.c | 23:54 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx: -users? -devels? -COMMUNITY???? | 23:54 |
| RST38h | -suckers | 23:54 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, -devs | 23:54 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, lol | 23:54 |
| RST38h | it is one ml we are still missing | 23:55 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, basically is another round of TMO vs ML | 23:55 |
| * VDVsx takes ML side :P | 23:55 | |
| javispedro | hum. gmane is outdated :( | 23:55 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: definitely belongs to the above list then | 23:56 |
| VDVsx | lol | 23:56 |
| javispedro | lcuk: btw, reading your liqbase /opt issue, I just have openttd-data package which creates /usr/share/openttd -> /opt/openttd, then rest of packages install to /usr/share/openttd like usual. | 23:56 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, use nabble | 23:56 |
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| lcuk | yeah | 23:56 |
| lcuk | thats what i wanted to do | 23:56 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, http://n2.nabble.com/maemo-community-mailing-lists-f2589537.html | 23:56 |
| lcuk | i dont want to change however many source files | 23:57 |
| clmntch | has anyone successfully used gtkembedmoz on the maemo5 sdK? | 23:57 |
| javispedro | lcuk: this is the best approach for that. I only c hanged 7 lines. | 23:57 |
| clmntch | or is that the wrong widget to use? | 23:57 |
| lcuk | javispedro, my thoughts exactly | 23:57 |
| javispedro | and only in the -data package. | 23:57 |
| lcuk | but people would rather i changed all code | 23:57 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 23:57 |
| javispedro | also there's a benefit the way I'm doing it. if you symlink /usr/share/openttd, apt-get updating will respect your choice. | 23:58 |
| * lcuk nods | 23:58 | |
| javispedro | (for example, I will symlink it to mmc card since I want to be able to access it through USB mass storage) | 23:58 |
| * VDVsx ROFL | 23:58 | |
| lcuk | that was why i wanted to just time it right and do a switcharoo | 23:58 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: which topic? | 23:59 |
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| javispedro | I see gmane was not outdated, only not showing proper message counts. | 23:59 |
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