| lcuk | i actually need a little tint box for them - like old floppy disk cases | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lcuk | tiny | 00:00 |
| pupnik_ | my cards stay in the device | 00:01 |
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| ShadowJK | I just discovered that I have misplaced all the cards I didn't have in a device | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | except for the broken 1gig SD and a sandisk 1 gig SD | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | ... and a nokia 32meg MMC | 00:03 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I'd make finding the 32MB MMC a top priority | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | oh that was list of cards NOT lost | 00:04 |
| ShadowJK | the lost cards include a bunch of 4 gig | 00:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ouch :/ | 00:04 |
| * ShadowJK finds one 2 gig miniSD in SD adapter, an empty miniSD->SD adapter, a 2 gig microSDHC, a 4 gig microSDHC in miniSD adapter, a USB -> microUSB cable, and 4 eneloops in his travel bag | 00:05 | |
| ShadowJK | so that's where they were :-) | 00:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Damn! That's a lot of porn to take with you | 00:06 |
| ShadowJK | I like to be prepared for any kind of flacidity during my travels | 00:06 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, dont you find it difficult stopping errrr midflow to change the memory card? | 00:09 |
| woglinde | hi | 00:10 |
| ShadowJK | I'm sure 10 years from now we'll look back and wonder how we ever managed with such primitive technology | 00:10 |
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| lcuk | hi woglinde | 00:10 |
| *** qwerty12_N810 has joined #maemo | 00:10 | |
| lcuk | wb qwerty12_N810 | 00:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Thank you, lcuk | 00:11 |
| * qwerty12_N810 blames his sister for his router restarting | 00:11 | |
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| lcuk | you blame your sister for many tihngs | 00:14 |
| lcuk | "muuuuum, tell ~~~~~~, she got me kicked out of #maemo" | 00:15 |
| mavhc | she was named after wikipedia comment signing? | 00:15 |
| crashanddie_ | hang on, qwerty12_N810 supposedly has a sister who comes on IRC? | 00:15 |
| crashanddie_ | mavhc, or the other way around | 00:16 |
| lcuk | lol mavhc | 00:16 |
| pupnik_ | hi woglinde how you doing | 00:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie_: Eh? No, I have a sister that, somehow, makes the router restart | 00:16 |
| mavhc | alien | 00:16 |
| woglinde | pupnik I am pissed | 00:16 |
| woglinde | because of the election | 00:16 |
| lcuk | o_O annoyed or drunk? | 00:16 |
| mavhc | or annoyed and drunk? | 00:17 |
| lcuk | boooooooooo | 00:17 |
| javispedro | ah yes. one day more for the candidates to eliminate themselves before the election day | 00:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | woglinde: Yeah, I felt the same after seeing lcuk's name there | 00:17 |
| woglinde | qwerty lol | 00:17 |
| pupnik_ | german election or maemo election? | 00:17 |
| woglinde | german | 00:18 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, I know you're missing one, but with us humans, it's called an opposable thumb. It allows people to manipulate small things easily, such as, but not limited to, wires, buttons, etc | 00:18 |
| * javispedro sighs http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=334868#post334868 | 00:18 | |
| woglinde | wonder why I didnt get this time an invation | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | woglinde: so now it's 97% of wrong decisions, instead of 95% with the result you would prefer | 00:18 |
| woglinde | ach joerg | 00:18 |
| pupnik_ | if you want to talk about it, ##Economics would be a nice place | 00:18 |
| mavhc | please show your economics degree to the guy at the door to get in | 00:19 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie_: I see. This is why you have one. After all, you do need it to manipulate your small thing (thing being knob) | 00:20 |
| crashanddie_ | I'm tired talking to you qwerty12_N810, we're talking about your sister, and immediately the conversation veers off to sex, you're twisted man | 00:20 |
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| crashanddie_ | :D | 00:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | cunt :p | 00:21 |
| javispedro | why is the eldar thread still open? | 00:21 |
| crashanddie_ | hahaha :D | 00:21 |
| lcuk | javispedro, must be if you are mentioning it | 00:21 |
| pupnik_ | why do i always picture 'Eldar' in a wizard robe | 00:21 |
| lcuk | dont feed the troll | 00:21 |
| RST38h | javis: in hopes that he will come back and create some more hilarity | 00:21 |
| javispedro | other than pure fear and nobody volunteering to be the "public head". | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: and hat? | 00:21 |
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| lcuk | mmm javispedro "public head" | 00:22 |
| javispedro | I don't want to lose my head thank you ;) | 00:22 |
| lcuk | in what battleground? | 00:22 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, when are you arriving in dam? | 00:22 |
| lcuk | dont know yet | 00:23 |
| lcuk | probably about 10 minutes before the start | 00:23 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman, Jaffa same question as the above (when are you arriving in amsterdam?) | 00:23 |
| pupnik_ | you should arrive first day | 00:23 |
| javispedro | lcuk: whoever closes that thread is going to attract quite a bit of criticism | 00:23 |
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| lcuk | you dont have to close the thread to kill it | 00:23 |
| lbt | rkirti: this isn't bad... http://quanta.kdewebdev.org/ | 00:23 |
| lcuk | just change the subject enough to make it unfashionable | 00:23 |
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| crashanddie_ | javispedro, what, more criticism from the highly respected russian who couldn't tell grammar from cabbage but is still allowed to bash everyone because he has "expert knowledge", and an ego that couldn't fit in the world trade center? | 00:24 |
| lcuk | or actualyl answer some of the questions loud enough and with enough unity that the dull roar of 'tards is sataited | 00:24 |
| javispedro | crashanddie_, he and his fan club. | 00:24 |
| crashanddie_ | javispedro, if eldar's ego was inside of the WTC, it would never have collapsed, without bending the rules of physics | 00:24 |
| pupnik_ | nice analogy | 00:25 |
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| crashanddie_ | couldn't find one with a car | 00:25 |
| RST38h | Eldar is an overweight tartar guy, who talks a lot | 00:25 |
| lcuk | one GOOD thing will come of the eldar stuff - if there are infact issues he is raising which are problems, you can be damned certain as much as possible would be done to cure them | 00:25 |
| lcuk | and since its linux those things would continue | 00:26 |
| * SpeedEvil loves their sauce. | 00:26 | |
| javispedro | if that means nokia is going to devote a single maemo devices person to java ME, I hope you're wrong ;) | 00:26 |
| lcuk | no | 00:26 |
| RST38h | And you folks are becoming uselessly obsessed with the guy. He is a hack. He does not decide on this or that gadget success. | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie_: I thought along same path ;-) | 00:26 |
| lcuk | but if an open source java person from within the company showed an interest - why would they be blocked from trying | 00:26 |
| * frals coughs something and MMS and points to brainstorm and the talk thread about it... </shamless promote> | 00:26 | |
| * lbt read tmo earlier and is wondering about the rotation support too now... the arguments are persuasive ... "I want it" | 00:27 | |
| lcuk | nokia have thousands of thousands of employees in different fields | 00:27 |
| crashanddie_ | very important question | 00:27 |
| crashanddie_ | stupid TV show or PS3 game? | 00:27 |
| javispedro | {{sodoityourselfdammit} | 00:27 |
| javispedro | } | 00:27 |
| javispedro | lol | 00:27 |
| lbt | javispedro: you talking to me? | 00:27 |
| javispedro | not until now: | 00:28 |
| javispedro | lbt: tv show. | 00:28 |
| RST38h | javis: Why don't YOU just port a MIDP JVM and JNI to Maemo? | 00:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | I want it is not a futile argument in the case of a device people are going to plop money down for | 00:28 |
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| RST38h | javis: I mean, it is somewhat tedious but no rocket science | 00:28 |
| lcuk | lbt, of course its desired - i want it too and am thinking how - the 3 OS areas which need it are menus, desktops, alttab preview thingy | 00:28 |
| liqpb-away | instead of just removing the "eldar" thread, can we just remove the "well respected" from the thread title, surely that title no longer fits? | 00:28 |
| javispedro | RST38h: totally agreed. In fact, I still have a .txt here documenting the steps. | 00:28 |
| RST38h | javis: Make it a single executable, make it auto-execute .jar and .jad files | 00:28 |
| lcuk | the alt-tab preview thingy would appear to be the simplest | 00:28 |
| lcuk | followed by menu | 00:28 |
| lcuk | then the desktop | 00:29 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, JNI is a bitch to implement | 00:29 |
| RST38h | javis: I have done it before, wasn't too bad, except that you have to get hold of SSL sources | 00:29 |
| * lbt wanted it on his N800.... and he wrote it :) | 00:29 | |
| RST38h | crashanddie: you do not need to implement it, has been done for you | 00:29 |
| RST38h | In MIDP that is | 00:29 |
| lbt | people shouldn't be allowed an N900 if they don't grok xrandr | 00:29 |
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| crashanddie_ | well, there's a JVM compatible with 1.6 that takes .jar files and converts them to .dll for use in C# | 00:29 |
| RST38h | crash: Not needed. | 00:30 |
| lcuk | lbt, what if xrandr was broken | 00:30 |
| lcuk | and things could not be rotated so easily | 00:30 |
| crashanddie_ | surely we can write something that runs Java decently on Maemo, right, if something like that exists | 00:30 |
| lcuk | and what if the rotation was wanted lower than the app level | 00:30 |
| crashanddie_ | How hard can it be? | 00:30 |
| lcuk | then do it | 00:30 |
| RST38h | crash: One more time, for teary eyed Java fanatics: your language sucks, it is unpractical, it fixes non existent problems at the cost of creating more serious problems | 00:30 |
| RST38h | crash: BUT! | 00:30 |
| javispedro | dead easy. but nobody wants it that much. | 00:30 |
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| * crashanddie_ loves buts | 00:30 | |
| rkirti | lbt: thanks | 00:31 |
| RST38h | crash: There is a huge bunch of MIDP apps for mobile devices, so it makes sense to implement MIDP on tablets. | 00:31 |
| woglinde | rst it already is | 00:31 |
| RST38h | crash: As a single executable. No libraries, no dlls, no c#, no classpathes | 00:31 |
| woglinde | http://midpath.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/midpath/ | 00:31 |
| RST38h | woglinde: I have not seen it run. Evet. | 00:31 |
| javispedro | RST38h: before that I would make sure GarnetVM still works. | 00:31 |
| RST38h | Ever | 00:31 |
| woglinde | available in jalimo and oe | 00:31 |
| woglinde | qt/gtk/awt backend | 00:32 |
| woglinde | as you like | 00:32 |
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| RST38h | woglinde: Except that it's packaged in such a way that you have to be a jalimo developer to use it | 00:32 |
| woglinde | nope | 00:32 |
| woglinde | choose chinook-compat as machine | 00:33 |
| woglinde | and you will get deb's out of it | 00:33 |
| * RST38h does not understand | 00:33 | |
| ShadowJK | huh | 00:33 |
| woglinde | rst you need to compile it with oe | 00:33 |
| RST38h | wogline: To me, properly packaged means I go to App Manager, install a single (small) package, and all my jar/jad files suddenly start running from file manager | 00:33 |
| lbt | mmmm oe | 00:34 |
| lbt | crispy | 00:34 |
| woglinde | because of the problem with java in sratchbox | 00:34 |
| RST38h | woglinde: Once you start telling me to get oe, compile something, get something else, compile, etc, it is not packaged | 00:34 |
| rkirti | woglinde: doesnt this sound like we should have a .deb builder like koen's narcissus for oe's .debs ? | 00:35 |
| woglinde | RST38h as I said fix jvm/scratchbox problem and you will get the deb's in extra-devel | 00:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lbt: lol | 00:35 |
| javispedro | what's the problem with java in sbox? | 00:35 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: arriving evening on the wed before the first day iirc | 00:36 |
| woglinde | javis qemu crash | 00:36 |
| lardman | oh no, what is the first day? Friday? In which case evening of the Thursday | 00:36 |
| javispedro | woglinde: ah, so a java devkit is needed. | 00:37 |
| lardman | night all | 00:37 |
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| woglinde | javis we could workaround with native java in scratchbox but I believe the builder dont support it | 00:38 |
| RST38h | woglinde: will sb2 work? | 00:38 |
| woglinde | rst nope | 00:38 |
| RST38h | oh :( | 00:38 |
| woglinde | did try | 00:38 |
| woglinde | but you have the builder problem again | 00:39 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman|gone, first day is friday, lol | 00:39 |
| woglinde | rst and its not fast with cacao | 00:40 |
| woglinde | and openjdk takes 80mb | 00:40 |
| Corsac | hhm, can an n810 do like a radio clock? | 00:42 |
| ccooke | Corsac: not as standard | 00:43 |
| Corsac | and do you know an application which would do that? :) | 00:44 |
| Corsac | (it's just a random idea before going to bed, so I'm not gonna script it tonight ;p) | 00:44 |
| ccooke | I was playing with a way to make iwork myself a while back, but work ate my life | 00:44 |
| ccooke | you can easily do it without an interface, mind | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | A radio clock? | 00:44 |
| ccooke | from the console | 00:45 |
| Corsac | yeah, not sure the english word is correct :) | 00:45 |
| ccooke | Fremantle is supposed to have it | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - you mean a cock radio. | 00:45 |
| Corsac | but, you know, an alarm which wakes you up in the morning | 00:45 |
| ccooke | I remember that bug being fixed in fremantle, anyway | 00:45 |
| Corsac | SpeedEvil: a *cock* radio? | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | meh | 00:45 |
| Corsac | now, that's a good one | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | for some reason english always says 'clock radio' not radio clock | 00:46 |
| ccooke | Corsac: as long as you're comfortable in the terminal, I can give you the script I've used. it's not at all pretty, but it does work. | 00:46 |
| Corsac | could you mail it at corsac@debian.org ? | 00:46 |
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| ccooke | better, I can pastebin it | 00:47 |
| ccooke | once I find it! | 00:47 |
| Corsac | aha :) | 00:47 |
| Corsac | but I'll be gone :( | 00:48 |
| lcuk | ccooke, will this small shell script replace the important job my children have | 00:48 |
| ccooke | oh, hell. | 00:48 |
| lcuk | and will it actually bring me a brew with them | 00:48 |
| ccooke | lcuk: apparently not, since I've just arrived back into London | 00:48 |
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| ccooke | which means it's at least an hour or two before I'll be able to do it. | 00:49 |
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| ccooke | Corsac: Assuming I can find it when I get home, I'll email you. You'll need to find the URL of an internet radio station you want to use, though | 00:49 |
| ccooke | and install mplayer on your tablet | 00:49 |
| ccooke | (I *did* say it's ugly) | 00:49 |
| ccooke | time to pack up. | 00:50 |
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| johnx | if you haven't voted for community council: do it now! | 01:28 |
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| bobbyd | javispedro: hi, are you around? | 01:33 |
| javispedro | bobbyd: yes | 01:34 |
| bobbyd | hi | 01:34 |
| javispedro | hiya | 01:34 |
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| bobbyd | I was trying to get your OGLES sample working, but I can't find the libraries under the x86 target, just the arm one, and I can't seem to run the graphical interface under the arm target | 01:35 |
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| bobbyd | am I just missing something obvious? | 01:35 |
| javispedro | check for libgles2-dev pkg in x86 | 01:36 |
| bobbyd | ok | 01:36 |
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| bobbyd | it doesn't exist apparently | 01:38 |
| bobbyd | maybe I'm missing an apt source? | 01:39 |
| bobbyd | E: Couldn't find package libgles2-dev | 01:39 |
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| bobbyd | ahh | 01:40 |
| bobbyd | thought I'd found it as libglesv2-dev, but no | 01:41 |
| bobbyd | http://maemo.org/packages/view/libgles2-dev/ | 01:41 |
| javispedro | well, get it from there if your sources.list is wrong :P | 01:42 |
| woglinde | gles stuff is closed | 01:42 |
| bobbyd | yep :) | 01:42 |
| bobbyd | (to javispedro ) | 01:42 |
| javispedro | woglinde: closed source, yes. | 01:42 |
| javispedro | (for some weird reason it is in both free and non-free repos) | 01:42 |
| johnx | is there actually GLES for x86? | 01:42 |
| woglinde | johnx only emulation | 01:42 |
| javispedro | more like "simulation": it uses host ogl. | 01:43 |
| bobbyd | woglinde: I only want to write apps, not change the source of the driver | 01:43 |
| woglinde | bobbyd ah | 01:43 |
| woglinde | javis hm isn't there the security token anymore? | 01:43 |
| woglinde | looked half an year ago the last time | 01:44 |
| johnx | the maemo.org/packages thing claims libgles2-dev is available from x86 from extras-devel | 01:44 |
| johnx | dunno if you already found it | 01:44 |
| bobbyd | johnx: yes, just looking for the repository line for extras-devel | 01:45 |
| * lcuk sighs | 01:46 | |
| johnx | deb http://repository.maemo.org extras-devel free | 01:46 |
| bobbyd | ta | 01:46 |
| johnx | (or at least I think that's it based on my deconstruction of the URL) | 01:46 |
| bobbyd | just pasting that before you gave me it :) | 01:46 |
| pupnik_ | no | 01:47 |
| lcuk | if i had a fruitbowl full of vibrating devices | 01:47 |
| lcuk | which responded to light and vibration stimuli | 01:47 |
| lcuk | by vibrating and illuminating | 01:47 |
| lcuk | (delayed reaction to things flow) | 01:47 |
| javispedro | woglinde: yes, that token thing still exists, but this is outside nokia-binaries. | 01:48 |
| lcuk | would it just look like nothing or would the whole unit shimmer and shake | 01:48 |
| bobbyd | lcuk: can't you build that with n900's? | 01:48 |
| javispedro | probably because you can get mostly the same from imagination by just registering with them (free) | 01:48 |
| johnx | bobbyd, pupnik_ is right. let me figure out the right URL | 01:48 |
| lcuk | well thats what im thinking of filling the bowls with | 01:48 |
| bobbyd | johnx: I think I've got it | 01:48 |
| lcuk | the devices are shiney pebbles lol | 01:48 |
| johnx | ah, good deal | 01:48 |
| javispedro | http://repository.maemo.org | 01:48 |
| javispedro | ^^^ check that for repo urls | 01:48 |
| johnx | javispedro++ | 01:49 |
| * johnx must need more coffee | 01:49 | |
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| lcuk | its always time for more coffee | 01:51 |
| lcuk | but i have no milk | 01:51 |
| lcuk | so its orange juice | 01:51 |
| johnx | took to drinking black coffee at work cause all they have is that synthetic creamer | 01:51 |
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| woglinde | good nite | 01:51 |
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| lcuk | johnx, good idea | 01:53 |
| lcuk | arghhh i wondered why ssh dropped off before | 01:54 |
| lcuk | something is up with my thing | 01:54 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: you're evil. | 01:57 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: I hope the pop r15 at the end wasn't intentional. | 01:58 |
| lcuk | javispedro, you are only just finding that out | 01:58 |
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| pupnik | http://images.google.com/images?q=pupnik | 01:59 |
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| javispedro | you're such a videogame collector ;) | 02:00 |
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| lcuk | http://images.google.com/images?q=lcuk bah, only 2 are mine | 02:00 |
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| johnx | augh! I am not the only johnx! the goggles; they do nothink! | 02:01 |
| luke-jr | ... | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I share a name with a canadian polar bear researcher. | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I once got an email offering me a place on a polar expedition. | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I did actually look a bit like him. | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I considered trying to blag it, but decided on balance it was probably a bad idea. | 02:03 |
| luke-jr | http://images.google.com/images?q="luke+dashjr" | 02:03 |
| luke-jr | ... | 02:03 |
| javispedro | wow while doing an egosearch i found | 02:03 |
| javispedro | http://fkwjcw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p27A0pF0A3D-tY-TyYSVGeiEiYwz7rJQwyHuK2J7maIj8Lblr4afkyEaamixjMAXfrT6-RietVZK6FNnr1P_iAw/tiemu.png | 02:03 |
| javispedro | i want this | 02:03 |
| mavhc | on the pro side: free trip to canada to find polar bears | 02:04 |
| mavhc | on the con side: trip to canada to find polar bears | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | mavhc: yeah - and they can be quite dangerous if you get between them and their natural prey of apples frozen inside a block of ice. | 02:05 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, push that pic to rst | 02:07 |
| javispedro | what? why? | 02:07 |
| javispedro | well, have to go to bed, now that I got his scaler to work | 02:07 |
| Firebird | did garage explode or something? I can't commit or access the site | 02:08 |
| javispedro | after removing his EVIL pop r15 which made me waste half an hour. | 02:08 |
| johnx | RST38h, have you seen this: http://fkwjcw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p27A0pF0A3D-tY-TyYSVGeiEiYwz7rJQwyHuK2J7maIj8Lblr4afkyEaamixjMAXfrT6-RietVZK6FNnr1P_iAw/tiemu.png ? | 02:08 |
| lcuk | javispedro, RST38h is the person who does calculators | 02:08 |
| lcuk | lol | 02:08 |
| javispedro | oh | 02:09 |
| lcuk | why did i tihnk he wanst in the chan | 02:09 |
| javispedro | will bother him tomorrow for that | 02:09 |
| javispedro | i want that calc. | 02:09 |
| javispedro | well, gnite all. | 02:09 |
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| Firebird | well, since we're discussing tiemu skins, I made this one yesterday: http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4241/ti89.jpg | 02:11 |
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| lcuk | that looks liqbaseish in its simplicity and skinning lol | 02:11 |
| Firebird | heh | 02:11 |
| Firebird | was going for gigantic buttons | 02:11 |
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| lcuk | too busy | 02:12 |
| lcuk | i like dual mode calculators | 02:12 |
| lcuk | most of the time you only need base math func | 02:12 |
| lcuk | but then occasionally you wish it would roll out an ide and whiteboard and actually let you present your entire thesis | 02:12 |
| lcuk | those times are much rarer tho lol | 02:13 |
| * lcuk tosses a coin | 02:13 | |
| lcuk | heads i have a curry | 02:13 |
| Firebird | eh, made it so I didn't have to rotate the screen when I needed an 89 | 02:13 |
| lcuk | tails i go to bed | 02:14 |
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| lcuk | Firebird, nothing against yours - i know what you mean | 02:14 |
| lcuk | im saying that most of the time the extra buttons are useless | 02:14 |
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| Firebird | aww, can't commit to garage.maemo.org still :o | 02:30 |
| fernand0 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoI8JIsrC0k&feature=player_profilepage :P got it fullscreen now heh | 02:34 |
| johnx | fernand0, how's the performance feel? | 02:34 |
| johnx | cause it looks really smooth | 02:35 |
| fernand0 | johnx, its pretty fast | 02:35 |
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| ccooke | Corsac: still around? | 03:34 |
| johnx | hey GeneralAntilles \o | 03:34 |
| ccooke | If so, the script I've used is at http://pastebin.com/m1c7e91fd | 03:34 |
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| pupnik | still love the 770. it is so.. solid. | 04:07 |
| lcuk | hah | 04:11 |
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| comhack | I have a n810 and I hace noticed something. When running Xchat I have noticed my battery lasts about half as long. Any ideals why this is happening? | 04:16 |
| comhack | I seen nothing in the forums describing this | 04:16 |
| microlith | if it keeps the wifi active constantly it'll shorten battery life | 04:16 |
| comhack | makes sense thanks | 04:17 |
| comhack | Not even chatting on it just being connected does it but that makes sense since the chats scrolling by are using the wifi | 04:18 |
| microlith | right | 04:18 |
| comhack | thanks microlith | 04:18 |
| microlith | np | 04:18 |
| lcuk | comhack, file a bug | 04:18 |
| lcuk | ask people not to talk when you arent paying attention | 04:19 |
| comhack | yeah right | 04:19 |
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| lcuk | it might work :D | 04:19 |
| comhack | hehehe | 04:19 |
| comhack | also I am connected to 5 channels so 5x the wifi | 04:20 |
| comhack | well not really all freenode | 04:20 |
| lcuk | not really | 04:20 |
| lcuk | how long is your battery lasting then | 04:21 |
| comhack | on xchat? | 04:21 |
| comhack | about 5 or 6 hours | 04:21 |
| lcuk | yeah - you said it was lasting about half as long | 04:21 |
| comhack | yeah | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | If you have a modernish router, it should support powersaving mode | 04:21 |
| comhack | I can get about 8 or nine hours without it | 04:21 |
| comhack | yeah its newer | 04:21 |
| lcuk | mmm not that new then | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | this lets the radio in your device sleep for a substantial portion of the time, and the router to queue packets for it. | 04:22 |
| lcuk | 8-9 hours with screen on? | 04:22 |
| lcuk | or idle | 04:22 |
| lcuk | cos mine lasts days | 04:22 |
| comhack | idle | 04:22 |
| lcuk | still connected | 04:22 |
| lcuk | and pingable and sshable | 04:22 |
| comhack | well I use it | 04:22 |
| comhack | alot | 04:22 |
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| comhack | belkin G+mimo | 04:22 |
| lcuk | what other network apps do you have running? | 04:23 |
| comhack | 5 days idle and about 6 hours in use | 04:23 |
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| comhack | nothing really | 04:23 |
| lcuk | yeah sounds about right | 04:23 |
| lcuk | screen takes most | 04:23 |
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| comhack | weather sometimes pidgin and tear | 04:24 |
| comhack | #weather-applet | 04:24 |
| * lcuk nods | 04:24 | |
| comhack | I just notice if xchat is connected I sometimes run out of battery while sleeping | 04:24 |
| comhack | not always but sometimes | 04:25 |
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| comhack | should connect when sleeping but I forget to plug up sometimes | 04:25 |
| lcuk | right guys | 04:25 |
| comhack | no biggie though I have 6 computers anyway | 04:25 |
| *** lcuk changes topic to "- please be quiet whilst comhack is sleeping. he wants his n810 awake in the morning" | 04:26 | |
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| comhack | best $220 I have spent in a while though | 04:26 |
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| *** lcuk changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ http://maemo.nokia.com | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo Community council election -> http://tinyurl.com/n9j9pa | Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0, use Mer instead" | 04:26 | |
| comhack | comhack: Cant wait for mer to become stable | 04:27 |
| lcuk | comhack, i tend to leave my charger nearby | 04:27 |
| lcuk | when its idle | 04:27 |
| comhack | yeah I do too | 04:27 |
| comhack | on my desk but you know forget sometimes | 04:27 |
| lcuk | lol | 04:27 |
| lcuk | yeah | 04:27 |
| lcuk | comhack, the way to do actions is type /me asdasdadasd | 04:29 |
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| * lcuk sadasdasdasd | 04:29 | |
| comhack | ahh | 04:29 |
| comhack | I knew that but forgot thanks for reminding me | 04:30 |
| lcuk | penguinbait, how are we gonna cope waiting for an extra day | 04:30 |
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| derf | I wonder if there is something wrong with my N810. | 04:34 |
| penguinbait | Revolution is put off for 24hours, is their a coup? | 04:34 |
| derf | It seems to get really, really hot when either low on battery, or re-charging from being low on battery. | 04:34 |
| comhack | how high does it go? | 04:35 |
| derf | I mean, it's not so hot that I can't pick it up. | 04:35 |
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| derf | But it didn't used to do this. | 04:35 |
| comhack | ohh thats not good | 04:35 |
| comhack | mine rarely goes to 90F usually stays at 85F | 04:35 |
| derf | I mean, it's charging. I don't have a temperature reading. | 04:36 |
| derf | It's not even really turned "on". | 04:36 |
| comhack | hometools provides the temp | 04:36 |
| comhack | oops mean the weather-applet does | 04:36 |
| comhack | OMWeather | 04:36 |
| comhack | but hot to the touch is not good at all | 04:37 |
| comhack | still under waranty? | 04:37 |
| lcuk | depends how cold your house is | 04:37 |
| derf | I doubt it. | 04:37 |
| comhack | lcuk: true | 04:37 |
| derf | It's like 2 years old now. | 04:37 |
| comhack | derf: probably not then | 04:37 |
| comhack | is your house hot? | 04:37 |
| lcuk | the only time my device has run hot has been when i left it in the crate and had a book ontop and it was charging | 04:38 |
| derf | Not really ,no. | 04:38 |
| lcuk | derf - sounds like the battery itself might be fading | 04:38 |
| derf | How do you get the temperature from omweather? | 04:38 |
| lcuk | after 2 years of hard service - if as you say its at end of charge | 04:38 |
| derf | lcuk: Yeah, I just hope it's not one of those that explodes. | 04:39 |
| comhack | derf: under the last tab sensor | 04:39 |
| derf | Tab? | 04:39 |
| comhack | check yes when config | 04:39 |
| comhack | its shows tabs | 04:39 |
| comhack | last tab called Sensor | 04:39 |
| derf | I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. | 04:40 |
| comhack | check "Use device temperature monitor" | 04:40 |
| comhack | click the desktop applet | 04:40 |
| comhack | then click the icon to the left that looks like a wrench | 04:40 |
| lcuk | does omweather have a little nuclear reactor icon | 04:40 |
| derf | I don't have one of those. | 04:40 |
| comhack | you will see tabs at the top then | 04:40 |
| lcuk | "the temp today is scorchio!" | 04:41 |
| comhack | the last one to the right is Sensor | 04:41 |
| derf | I have a settings button. It does not have a Sensor tab. | 04:41 |
| comhack | hmmm OMWeather?> | 04:41 |
| derf | I also wonder why it thinks it's Feb 22 1970. | 04:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | ugh | 04:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | man i feel like crap | 04:42 |
| comhack | go to control then change the time/date | 04:42 |
| lcuk | omg | 04:42 |
| lcuk | its gotten so hot its gone back in time | 04:42 |
| comhack | hehehe | 04:42 |
| comhack | something is defintely wrong with your n810 | 04:43 |
| comhack | never had an issue with the time/date myself | 04:44 |
| comhack | course mine is only 4 months old | 04:44 |
| comhack | have you updated to the newest diablo? | 04:44 |
| derf | Of course not. | 04:45 |
| * lcuk must reflash tomorrow | 04:45 | |
| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 04:45 |
| lcuk | derf, kot still runs chinook :) | 04:46 |
| MaceN8x0 | ugh | 04:46 |
| lcuk | rock solid stable tho :) | 04:46 |
| MaceN8x0 | nothing wrong with chinook | 04:46 |
| comhack | Might be your problem | 04:47 |
| comhack | dunno | 04:47 |
| comhack | MaceN8x0: n810? | 04:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | omfg this cold or flu | 04:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | i run diablo | 04:47 |
| comhack | MaceN8x0: sorry to hear that | 04:47 |
| comhack | sorry | 04:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 04:47 |
| comhack | meant derf | 04:47 |
| lcuk | derf, it might be symptoms of upgraditis | 04:48 |
| comhack | lcuk: that what I thin ktoo | 04:48 |
| comhack | damn little keyboard | 04:48 |
| lcuk | ;) i make worse mistakes with a big keyboard | 04:49 |
| derf | I'll believe you when you can point me to a closed bug report. | 04:49 |
| lcuk | which bug you waiting to be "fixed in fremantle"? | 04:49 |
| derf | Whatever bug makes my device really warm when it charges. | 04:49 |
| lcuk | try it with a different battery if possible | 04:50 |
| lcuk | or have you perhaps changed the charger itself | 04:50 |
| derf | Nope. | 04:50 |
| derf | Only one battery, and I sold the N800 last year, so I've even been using the proper charger. | 04:51 |
| comhack | derf: does it get hot plugged in? | 04:51 |
| derf | comhack: Yes. | 04:51 |
| derf | How do you think it was charging? | 04:51 |
| comhack | hmm not the battery then dont think anyway | 04:51 |
| lcuk | ari jaaksi reality distortion field ;) | 04:51 |
| derf | I mean, it was also really hot while in my pocket unplugged last week, running low on battery. | 04:51 |
| pupnik | devices not trickle charging from USB is evil | 04:51 |
| comhack | no I meant does it get hot when chargin or just when using battery | 04:51 |
| pupnik | is it expensive to implement? | 04:51 |
| derf | comhack: Both. | 04:51 |
| comhack | hmm | 04:52 |
| lcuk | derf do some monitoring with top etc | 04:52 |
| derf | It's cooled off substantially now. | 04:52 |
| lcuk | see if anything is sitting draining | 04:52 |
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| derf | #1 CPU user is top. | 04:53 |
| comhack | If I am not mistaken I think I read the advanced-backlight caused heating issues | 04:53 |
| comhack | running it?/ | 04:53 |
| derf | Good thing I don't have that installed. | 04:53 |
| comhack | well it was an ideal | 04:54 |
| comhack | well lets hope it is not a hardware problem hopefully it is software related | 04:55 |
| derf | Yes, let's. | 04:56 |
| comhack | what do you run software-wise all the time | 04:56 |
| comhack | that may cause this | 04:56 |
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| derf | Not much. | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | a crontabbed ps may be a plan | 04:57 |
| comhack | what then? to figure out what is causing it | 04:57 |
| derf | I've got the clock, Google bar, and omweather as my only desktop applets. | 04:57 |
| comhack | well thats not much | 04:57 |
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| derf | I'd say ntpd, but that isn't started by default. | 04:57 |
| comhack | I have those running | 04:57 |
| comhack | besides ntpd | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ps -aux run every ten minutes or so | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | see if anything comes up as using lots of cpu | 04:58 |
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| derf | Ah, found the temperature sensor. | 05:02 |
| comhack | derf: cool | 05:02 |
| derf | /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.1/i2c-1/1-0048/temp1_input | 05:02 |
| derf | It's apparently down to 41.4°C now. | 05:02 |
| comhack | thats still way high | 05:03 |
| comhack | 106 F | 05:03 |
| comhack | I⇧have never got over 92F with tons of stuff running | 05:03 |
| comhack | On that note, why do they say that the n900 can multiatsk n810 can too wtf | 05:04 |
| derf | temp1_crit is 96°C. | 05:04 |
| derf | Because the N900 has enough RAM to load 2 programs. | 05:04 |
| comhack | still for normal use that is way hihg | 05:04 |
| comhack | #high | 05:04 |
| comhack | I have 4 or 5 running sometimes with no lag | 05:05 |
| derf | Depends what they are. | 05:05 |
| derf | Sometimes I can't even open a second browser window. | 05:05 |
| comhack | well I have maemo on sd card and use 128 virtual | 05:05 |
| derf | In my experience, if you're actually using VM in any real fashion, it becomes faster to reboot the device and start over than to wait for it to actually page things back in. | 05:06 |
| comhack | 128+ 128 virtual | 05:06 |
| derf | It's okay for an occasional escape valve, but that's about it. | 05:06 |
| comhack | multitask all the time I use the n810 I figure it is just a selling point since the n810 can multitask | 05:07 |
| derf | Fortunately, heavy swapping often lags the device so badly the watchdog will helpfully reboot it for you. | 05:07 |
| comhack | never had a problem running multiple apps well a tiny bit but nothing major | 05:08 |
| derf | I said, it depends on what programs. | 05:09 |
| derf | I can do that with one program. | 05:09 |
| comhack | Hmm well usually pidgin, xchat, and tear | 05:09 |
| comhack | all stays running | 05:09 |
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| comhack | and vagalume | 05:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.theonion.com/content/news/cat_congress_mired_in_sunbeam | 05:22 |
| comhack | I voted for the cat congress | 05:23 |
| comhack | heheheh nice link | 05:23 |
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| MoaBird | At this point, I'd see the cat Congress doing a better job than the buffoons currently in office. | 05:27 |
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| comhack | thats the truth | 05:28 |
| comhack | change my ass | 05:28 |
| comhack | more of the same | 05:29 |
| MoaBird | The best approach to government is to keep as much of what you own far away from it, and scam it for all it's dumb enough to give you, in my opinion. | 05:29 |
| comhack | I was at trhe g2 summit I live 40 miles away | 05:29 |
| comhack | I heard the sound weapon screetching | 05:29 |
| comhack | got a headache from it | 05:30 |
| comhack | mild | 05:30 |
| MoaBird | I wonder if it ended up killing anyone? (as a side effect, that is... it's supposedly nonlethal) | 05:30 |
| comhack | I left right away myself | 05:30 |
| comhack | dunno first time uses on us citizens | 05:31 |
| MoaBird | Not the last, though. | 05:31 |
| comhack | I know | 05:31 |
| comhack | locked and loaded here | 05:31 |
| comhack | welcome to 1984 | 05:32 |
| comhack | almost anyway | 05:32 |
| comhack | more like animal farm | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oink | 05:32 |
| comhack | I concur | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | We'd be OK if they'd just prosecute for treason. ;) | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | n900 is doubleplusgood! | 05:33 |
| comhack | kind of hard to do that when congress are traitors | 05:33 |
| comhack | SpeedEvil: looks nice but not for the proice | 05:33 |
| comhack | #price | 05:34 |
| comhack | and I already have a phone | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | price is doubleplusungood. | 05:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Didn't you say something about 'supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States'? Didn't work out, I guess?" | 05:34 |
| MoaBird | Meh, the n900 is overrated. A nice gadget, to be sure, but the price is too high for something of that... what comhack said. | 05:34 |
| comhack | was fine with the internet tablet but a phone no thanks | 05:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | comhack, give it 6 months. | 05:34 |
| comhack | true | 05:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's an internet tablet with phone functionality. | 05:34 |
| comhack | a gimmick for now IMHO | 05:35 |
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| MoaBird | Exactly, I don't want a phone, which in the US means a ridiculous contract. I can afford it with no trouble, but I'll be damned if I'm ripped off by some greedy telecom. | 05:35 |
| comhack | besides maemo 5 | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a revolution. | 05:35 |
| comhack | no doubr | 05:35 |
| comhack | #doubt | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the first real open source cellular communications devices. | 05:35 |
| comhack | hmmm g1? | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | comhack, can you easily load Debian on a G1? | 05:36 |
| comhack | not for sure | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | comhack, can you run desktop Linux applications on a G1? | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Will Google let you participate in the architecting and coding of the platform? | 05:36 |
| MoaBird | GeneralAntilles: Actually, yes. | 05:37 |
| comhack | dont have one | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | MoaBird, to which of the above? :) | 05:37 |
| pupnik | google is testing the idea of 'waves' on the interent... | 05:37 |
| pupnik | like when a url link passes around chat | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Android isn't open source like Maemo is open source. | 05:38 |
| MoaBird | Your last comment about the coding of the platform. No idea about Debian, although I can't see why not if someone would bother to port it. | 05:38 |
| pupnik | i think it's just branding of existing phenomena, like twit-ter | 05:38 |
| comhack | GeneralAntilles: didnt know that | 05:38 |
| MoaBird | No, and Maemo isn't half as useful as Android at the moment, nor has it ever been in the past. | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | MoaBird, have you ever used Maemo? | 05:38 |
| comhack | me: waitng on mer to become stable | 05:38 |
| MoaBird | If it can get a critical mass of devs behind it, that may change... until then.... | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | I find Maemo a lot more fulfilling and _useful_ than Android day-to-day. | 05:39 |
| MoaBird | GeneralAntilles: I have, I own an n810 with Maemo 4 on it, and Mer on an external card. | 05:39 |
| comhack | MoaBird: I had mer on my n810 but too much stuff not working yet | 05:39 |
| MoaBird | To each his own, then. I just find that the apps aren't there. | 05:39 |
| comhack | cannot wait till stable | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Qualifications about "usefulness" are about as personal and anecdotal as it can get, anyway. | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it's hardly a useful metric to try to use on a larger scale. | 05:40 |
| zerojay | Android's terrible. | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Android is fake open source. | 05:40 |
| MoaBird | True enough, but I wasn't making claims to an objective statement. | 05:40 |
| comhack | zerojay: yup ran it in virtualbox and it sux | 05:40 |
| zerojay | Was so close to getting an HTC Magic when the N900 started showing up. | 05:40 |
| zerojay | Glad I saved myself the trouble. | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stuff life Anrdoid and LiMo are going to do major harm to open source in the long run if things keep moving as they have. | 05:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | comhack, the final Fremantle SDK is apparently coming out soon. | 05:41 |
| zerojay | Next week. | 05:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | comhack, so it should be a lot better once that code is integrated. | 05:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, didn't want to quote exact dates. ;) | 05:41 |
| comhack | GeneralAntilles: cool thanks alot | 05:41 |
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| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: That's what I heard from kon... konto... whatever his name is. :) | 05:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | MoaBird, Android is yet-another-phone-os. Maemo is the desktop computing experience in your pocket. | 05:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Worlds of difference there. | 05:42 |
| zerojay | *HUUUUGE* difference. | 05:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, canttory, I think. | 05:42 |
| comhack | GeneralAntilles: I agree so far | 05:42 |
| zerojay | Get it in your hands and you'll understand. | 05:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | lol | 05:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | it is kind of funny when they get a jew to play a christian reverend | 05:43 |
| MaceN8x0 | irony at its best :) | 05:43 |
| zerojay | mmkay. | 05:43 |
| comhack | MaceN8x0: lol | 05:43 |
| MaceN8x0 | best one was the movir conspiracy | 05:43 |
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| MaceN8x0 | where a jew was playing one of the final solution nazis | 05:44 |
| MoaBird | GeneralAntilles: Maybe so, but what advantages do you feel the desktop computing experience offers? | 05:44 |
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| comhack | pupnik: I agree but I think it is over hyped | 05:51 |
| zerojay | MoaBird: They can run straight without an overhaul.. but it works a lot better when you do spend the time to port the UI over to Maemo standards. | 05:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | MoaBird, depends entirely on the application. | 05:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the point is, you have the option not to do the overhaul if you just need the application. | 05:52 |
| zerojay | Right. | 05:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're not required to spend months porting it to Davlik or a web runtime. | 05:52 |
| microlith | or hope apple approves it :) | 05:53 |
| pupnik | comhack: really depends on your perspective. if you're asking 'what can it do *today*?' you have a good point | 05:53 |
| zerojay | microlith: As an iPhone developer, don't even get me started. | 05:53 |
| pupnik | just send some weed to the store interns | 05:53 |
| zerojay | pupnik: And *today*, it's still in beta... so that makes sense. | 05:54 |
| comhack | pupnik: true I know as mer becomes stable it will be able to do alot more | 05:54 |
| pupnik | i use linux on my desktop so these are the only devices for me | 05:54 |
| pupnik | i can't begin to guess what 'normal' people want | 05:54 |
| comhack | me too on 6 machines | 05:54 |
| microlith | 'normal' people go for the iphone I suppose | 05:55 |
| comhack | screw normal I want geeky only | 05:55 |
| microlith | since before that they had basic flip-phones and candybars | 05:55 |
| pupnik | or maybe the n900.. it does pack a punch. | 05:55 |
| zerojay | I've been on Linux at home since 2000... but I still have to use Windows at work. | 05:55 |
| microlith | pupnik: n900 has kind of a narrow audience, imo | 05:55 |
| comhack | I wish linux was stil geeky instead of for "normal peopl" | 05:56 |
| pupnik | microlith: if i didn't know linux, i'd be attracted to screen and keyboard | 05:56 |
| zerojay | comhack: Stay away from Ubuntu and you're fine. :) | 05:56 |
| comhack | thats why I use archlinux and openbox | 05:56 |
| microlith | hey now | 05:56 |
| comhack | I like building my machines from ground up | 05:56 |
| zerojay | ArchLinux is pretty good. Been using it for a few months after years on Gentoo. | 05:56 |
| microlith | ubuntu is good stuf | 05:56 |
| comhack | err not for me though | 05:57 |
| comhack | too mainstream | 05:57 |
| comhack | for me | 05:57 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 05:57 |
| zerojay | I gotta disagree. Ubuntu does all sorts of shit that just pisses me off. | 05:57 |
| LinuxCode | any gnu linux system can be both | 05:57 |
| comhack | next LFS | 05:57 |
| LinuxCode | not everybody needs to know internals | 05:57 |
| comhack | linux from scratch | 05:57 |
| comhack | yeah I know | 05:57 |
| LinuxCode | and if you do you can | 05:57 |
| comhack | but more users more problems | 05:57 |
| comhack | imho | 05:57 |
| LinuxCode | nothing wrong with making it more accessible | 05:57 |
| LinuxCode | wrong | 05:58 |
| comhack | I know | 05:58 |
| zerojay | Turning off the root account? GTFO. | 05:58 |
| LinuxCode | more users more debugging output | 05:58 |
| comhack | just like the geekiness | 05:58 |
| microlith | zerojay: it's not -off- | 05:58 |
| LinuxCode | and more willingness by manufacturers to create drivers | 05:58 |
| comhack | I like to compile my own | 05:58 |
| zerojay | microlith: It might as well be. | 05:58 |
| comhack | but yes | 05:58 |
| comhack | better support because of more users | 05:58 |
| microlith | zerojay: c'mon, if you're even halfway used to Linux it's trivial to get a root console | 05:58 |
| comhack | its a oxymoron | 05:58 |
| MoaBird | I for one wish that more non Windows OSes had survived the 90s. | 05:59 |
| zerojay | microlith: I'm not a fan of needing to sudo everything, sorry. | 05:59 |
| microlith | heh | 05:59 |
| microlith | so | 05:59 |
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| microlith | sudo su | 05:59 |
| microlith | passwd | 05:59 |
| microlith | done | 05:59 |
| pupnik | speaking of moron, does anybody want to push a couple of sdl projects into fremantle? | 05:59 |
| zerojay | microlith: See, why should I even have to jump through that loop? | 05:59 |
| pupnik | i can help jumpstart any project on my page | 05:59 |
| microlith | so don't use ubuntu if that's such a horrible thing | 06:00 |
| zerojay | And that's but one example of the crap you have to deal with when you use Ubuntu. | 06:00 |
| microlith | certainly not a point against it | 06:00 |
| zerojay | Exactly why I don't. | 06:00 |
| zerojay | DEFINTELY a point against it. | 06:00 |
| microlith | HA ! A point of contention! | 06:00 |
| pupnik | the only thing i saw so far in ubuntu that i want in debian is that program that tells you the package(s) containing a command you typed that is not installed | 06:01 |
| pupnik | that is awesome | 06:01 |
| comhack | I liked it when LInux was hard | 06:01 |
| zerojay | The good thing about Ubuntu is because it has a large user base so shit moves fast and gets fixed fast. | 06:01 |
| zerojay | And chances are that if you want to try something, someone else already has. | 06:01 |
| zerojay | pupnik: Agreed. | 06:01 |
| comhack | not too fast 6 momnth release cycle | 06:01 |
| comhack | better to use a rolling distro | 06:02 |
| zerojay | Not talking about release cycle. | 06:02 |
| comhack | well fixes | 06:02 |
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| comhack | most programs do not get upgraded till new release | 06:02 |
| LinuxCode | comhack, you sound like you ahvent been using linux that long | 06:02 |
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| comhack | since 2001 | 06:02 |
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| pupnik | i'm a little pissed at intel with moblin | 06:03 |
| zerojay | I don't want to say "I liked it when Linux was hard"... I just don't like it when some distros decide to break things that should be standard with Linux distros. | 06:03 |
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| pupnik | weren't they on-board with maemo? | 06:03 |
| microlith | I thought they were, at least, that was the impression I got at the ELC back in April... | 06:05 |
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| pupnik | zerojay: yeah the ubuntu guys just lie awake dreaming of ways to piss people like me off | 06:25 |
| pupnik | or some of them seem to | 06:25 |
| pupnik | i maek bettur! now you put number 2 in number 4 instead of number 3! | 06:25 |
| pupnik | 'Jesus, *why* you myopic codemonkey...' | 06:26 |
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| zerojay | pupnik: It really feels like that, honestly. | 07:01 |
| pupnik | :) | 07:02 |
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| pupnik | now we can understand grandparents better eh, zerojay | 07:03 |
| pupnik | 'in my day, we didn't *need* to have a telephone everywhere' | 07:04 |
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| zerojay | Pidgin 2.6.2 out now. | 07:04 |
| milos_ | zerojay: I am running it currently... | 07:05 |
| zerojay | Cool. | 07:06 |
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| * milos_ likes to run development ver. of Ubuntu, everything so fresh... | 07:08 | |
| zerojay | I'm talking about the Maemo version. | 07:08 |
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| zerojay | anyone suggest a jabber server that supports most of the main IM gateways? | 07:09 |
| zerojay | (Ironically enough.) | 07:09 |
| luke-jr | gateways ftl | 07:09 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Thanks, helpful as usual. | 07:10 |
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| slonopotamus | 'main IM gateways'? | 07:11 |
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| zerojay | Yes, gateways for the most used IM services.. aka AIM, MSN and Yahoo. | 07:12 |
| slonopotamus | jabber doesn't require gateways to run on the same server as your account | 07:13 |
| zerojay | Yes, I know. | 07:13 |
| slonopotamus | then why do you want them on one server? | 07:14 |
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| zerojay | Ugh. | 07:14 |
| zerojay | Forget I asked. | 07:14 |
| * slonopotamus just setup his own one | 07:15 | |
| zerojay | I used to run a public Jabber server for TMO back in the day before RTCOMM killed the need. | 07:15 |
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| zerojay | When it was still ITT. | 07:15 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: addy? | 07:16 |
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| slonopotamus | luke-jr, no u | 07:17 |
| zerojay | slonopotamus: What jabberd are you using? | 07:17 |
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| slonopotamus | zerojay, ejabberd | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: -.- | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus@slonopotamus.org ? | 07:18 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, haha :D | 07:18 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, that was too long for me | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | me@slonopotamus.org ? | 07:18 |
| zerojay | Kind of amazing seeing how far XMPP has gone... and yet... hasn't gone. | 07:18 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, almost. marat@... | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: hasn't? | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | who uses something other than XMPP these days? | 07:20 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Only 90% of the entire world. | 07:21 |
| zerojay | 10 or 11 years now... | 07:22 |
| luke-jr | ... | 07:22 |
| luke-jr | everyone I know uses XMPP if any IM | 07:23 |
| slonopotamus | who needs them anyway | 07:23 |
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| luke-jr | lol | 07:23 |
| zerojay | I used to be a regular in the Jabber chatroom at jabber.org ages ago... 1999 or so with stpeter and the gang. | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | lol | 07:24 |
| zerojay | Back when presence barely worked and there were maybe three or four public jabber servers... before the AIM scare. | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | AIM scare? | 07:25 |
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| zerojay | Back when jabber.org hosted all the IM gateways themselves.. until AIM started blocking and cutting them off. | 07:26 |
| luke-jr | oh that | 07:26 |
| luke-jr | yeah, I think I did actually use gateways back then | 07:26 |
| slonopotamus | does icq still send password in plain text? | 07:27 |
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| luke-jr | slonopotamus: ICQ is AIM now | 07:27 |
| zerojay | I haven't a clue. I still sit on ICQ, but I don't know why. All I ever get is Russian spam on it. | 07:27 |
| luke-jr | has been for quite some time | 07:27 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: probably nostalga | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | I have my (no longer used) ICQ number memorized | 07:28 |
| zerojay | Habit too. | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | 11653284 | 07:28 |
| zerojay | 9282836 | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | first time I recollected it in like 5 years | 07:28 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, the program itself is still called icq, though | 07:28 |
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| luke-jr | zerojay: did you use Excite! PAL too? | 07:29 |
| zerojay | A friend of mine had one in the 4 digit range and still refuses to drop it for that reason... as if anyone cares about ICQ anymore anyways. | 07:29 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Nope. | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | lol | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: do you at least know it existed? | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | nobody else in the world seems to even remember it :/ | 07:29 |
| zerojay | I don't remember it, to be honest. | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | not even Wikipedia | 07:29 |
| zerojay | Back then, almost all my communication was ICQ and IRC. | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: I think it predated ICQ | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | IIRC, it was strictly online-only and you used your email as an identifier | 07:30 |
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| slonopotamus | numeric login is the ugliest thing they could do | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: no wai, it's useful for elitists to brag about | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | :p | 07:30 |
| slonopotamus | and encourages account theft/sales, yep | 07:32 |
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| zerojay | I don't really remember any particular competing IM programs from back in the day.. I just remember ICQ did it better. | 07:39 |
| zerojay | Before it got all bloated and shit. | 07:39 |
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| * RST38h moos | 07:44 | |
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| jauaor | hello | 08:11 |
| johnx | hi | 08:12 |
| RST38h | "I Fell In Love At The Apple Store" Is Destined to Become A Fanboy Classic | 08:16 |
| * RST38h sighs | 08:16 | |
| jauaor | anyone knows if there is a way toge the sdk working in mac osx? | 08:16 |
| RST38h | no. | 08:16 |
| johnx | jauaor, use a linux VM | 08:16 |
| RST38h | Go fall in love at the apple store. | 08:16 |
| jauaor | RST38h: i already did | 08:17 |
| jauaor | :P | 08:17 |
| RST38h | johnx: that is cheating =) | 08:17 |
| jauaor | johnx: i see | 08:17 |
| johnx | RST38h, then I cheat every freaking day at work | 08:17 |
| jauaor | haha | 08:17 |
| RST38h | cheater! | 08:17 |
| johnx | though I think my definition of "cheat" and yours are pretty similar | 08:18 |
| johnx | I often accuse people of cheating for finding simpler ways to do things :) | 08:18 |
| RST38h | using vm is not a simpler way to do things | 08:19 |
| johnx | RST38h, there's simple from a "user" perspective and simple from a "machine" perspective | 08:21 |
| johnx | both are valid viewpoints | 08:21 |
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| cmug | I just flashed my n810 while holding down the swap button, now the tablet is just displaying the Nokia logo, what gives? | 08:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: from user perspective it slows computer down to a crawl | 08:22 |
| johnx | cmug, from windows or linux? | 08:22 |
| cmug | johnx, linux | 08:22 |
| cmug | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_on_Linux I followed this | 08:22 |
| RST38h | cmug: turn off, remove battery, reinsert battery, turn on | 08:22 |
| johnx | cmug, do you have the output from the flasher program? did it give any errors? what command line did you run *exactly*? | 08:22 |
| RST38h | cmug: if it still does not boot, you bricked it, flash again | 08:22 |
| johnx | RST38h, make qemu elf binary executor work on mac and then tell me it was simple | 08:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: I would not use mac at the first place, really =) | 08:23 |
| johnx | RST38h, my point stands though :P | 08:23 |
| cmug | 100% (122496 of 122496 kB, avg. 7351 kB/s) | 08:23 |
| cmug | Finishing flashing... done | 08:23 |
| cmug | johnx, ./flasher-3.0.amd64 -F RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R | 08:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: yea, agree, but again, if you want to do development, Mac is the last platform you should consider | 08:23 |
| johnx | RST38h, for a lot of people, you use what you have | 08:24 |
| RST38h | ALTHOUGH, maybe you can create a separate partition and place Ubuntu there? | 08:24 |
| johnx | and really, linux under vmware on the mac isn't all that slow | 08:24 |
| cmug | hey it booted now | 08:24 |
| cmug | after I removed the usb cable | 08:24 |
| johnx | RST38h, you could, but ... | 08:24 |
| jauaor | i have decent ram | 08:24 |
| cmug | I guess it is ok? | 08:24 |
| johnx | cmug, ah, yeah. I bet it was still in flashing mode | 08:25 |
| johnx | in the future look to see if it shows the "usb" icon in the corner of the screen | 08:25 |
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| cmug | johnx, it did | 08:25 |
| johnx | "Now you know, and knowledge is power!" | 08:26 |
| cmug | indeed, just got the device so first experiences here | 08:26 |
| johnx | good to have you on board :) | 08:27 |
| cmug | yea I used to idle here before | 08:27 |
| cmug | I got the n810 to run carman on it | 08:27 |
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| cmug | let's see what else productive I can do with it | 08:28 |
| cmug | I like the big screen compared to the n900 | 08:29 |
| Stskeeps | moo | 08:29 |
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| rkirti | morning Sts | 08:45 |
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| johnx | man, the N810 is certainly the right price right now | 08:48 |
| luke-jr | ? | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | did I wait too long to sell mine? | 08:50 |
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| johnx | nah. google says it goes for $220 new, but $250 used | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | so I could make a nice profit, eh? | 08:51 |
| johnx | as long as people are actually stupid enough to buy used :) | 08:51 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: hey, I bought used... | 08:52 |
| johnx | was buying new cheaper at the time? | 08:53 |
| luke-jr | heck, I even bought mine across multiple sources for parts | 08:53 |
| luke-jr | ah, true | 08:53 |
| luke-jr | johnx: I'll include a MiniSD adapter ;) | 08:53 |
| fernand0 | synergy rules | 08:54 |
| johnx | fernand0, yup, so does x2x | 08:54 |
| johnx | and teleport if you're mac only | 08:54 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 08:57 |
| luke-jr | isn't teleport a GTK app? | 08:57 |
| fernand0 | this teleport http://abyssoft.com/software/teleport/ | 08:57 |
| johnx | luke-jr, different teleport. what fernand0 said :) | 08:57 |
| fernand0 | x2x looks nice too, though it wont let me use it with my windows desktop heh, that's why I like cross platform stuff :P | 08:58 |
| cmug | my N810 was certainly the right price, $0 | 08:58 |
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| johnx | x2vnc ;) | 08:58 |
| johnx | and X11 is plenty cross platform :P | 08:58 |
| fernand0 | yea hehe, windows is the guilty one :p | 08:59 |
| luke-jr | cmug: yeah, I concur. that's about what it's actually worth. | 09:00 |
| fernand0 | too bad maemo 5 won't run on it :/ I hope they release a 'hacker edition' at least | 09:00 |
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| luke-jr | fernand0: Gentoo will | 09:01 |
| johnx | fernand0, nokia won't. the community is working on something | 09:01 |
| johnx | luke-jr, you're claiming that gentoo will support packages made for maemo5/n900? | 09:01 |
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| slonopotamus | 'on something'. hehe :) | 09:02 |
| johnx | to be specific, Mer :) | 09:03 |
| fernand0 | oh I know about Mer but, will it include the 'cool' stuff that maemo 5 got? like dashboard desktop, thumbnailed apps on desktop, etc, is that already opensourced? | 09:04 |
| johnx | fernand0, well time will tell about whether it'll be opened or not, but I doubt the n8x0 really has the power to do that anyways (while maintaing decent performance, let alone battery life) | 09:05 |
| luke-jr | johnx: no. | 09:06 |
| luke-jr | johnx: as seems fairly clear, I am claiming Gentoo works on N810 | 09:06 |
| johnx | I misread that | 09:07 |
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| fernand0 | Gentoo is hackers edition wherever it runs | 09:07 |
| luke-jr | mwahaha | 09:08 |
| johnx | the gentoo guys seem to like it that way | 09:08 |
| luke-jr | or just don't have the time nor interest in changing it | 09:08 |
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| cmug | is there a list of "things to do to get started with n810" anywhere? | 09:13 |
| johnx | well it depends on what you mean by "get started." | 09:13 |
| johnx | start developing? start using it? | 09:13 |
| johnx | what apps are good? | 09:13 |
| cmug | start using it | 09:13 |
| johnx | talk.maemo.org and downloads.maemo.org | 09:13 |
| cmug | like, should I select the "Extend virtual memory" option? | 09:14 |
| johnx | only if you're planning to run a lot of apps at the same time | 09:14 |
| johnx | but it probably won't hurt anything to leave it on most of the time | 09:14 |
| cmug | ok, any clue on the max memcard size? | 09:14 |
| Corsac | ccooke: ok received your script | 09:15 |
| Corsac | will have to try that | 09:15 |
| cmug | (I can google too but since we have a dialog going) | 09:15 |
| johnx | cmug, biggest sdhc card you can find | 09:15 |
| Corsac | sad part is that I'll have to let it plugged during the night because my wifi won't allow it to sleep | 09:15 |
| cmug | johnx, very nice | 09:15 |
| fernand0 | :( damn, was trying to compile a more recent version of pidgin but it fails | 09:16 |
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| fernand0 | woo it compiled now. | 09:28 |
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| * frals is waiting for all the MMS junkies/implementers and see the talk thread about MMS support | 09:41 | |
| * frals is preparing for a long wait | 09:41 | |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 09:44 |
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| RST38h | back | 10:09 |
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| cmug | who needs mms | 10:13 |
| mavhc | people with too many sms credits | 10:13 |
| johnx | people who feel the need to send stupid pictures of their cat to their friends | 10:13 |
| mavhc | that's what email's for | 10:13 |
| Myrtti | people who do not get the idea of mobile internet and are not willing to pay extra for it | 10:14 |
| mavhc | cheaper than mms if you pay full rate | 10:14 |
| Myrtti | hhehhehe. | 10:14 |
| RST38h | Whoever they are, they constitute 2.5% of all messages | 10:14 |
| mavhc | only reason iphone people wanted mms was to shut up people who said iphone sucks, doesn't have mms | 10:15 |
| vesa | aww come on. i use mms all the time. much easier than using email (most people don't have 24/7 email on their phones) | 10:15 |
| RST38h | so, this is why we are going to want MMS now? | 10:15 |
| vesa | they're not that expensive anyway | 10:15 |
| frals | or people with friends who doesnt have push email to their phones yet :p | 10:15 |
| kirma | ubiquity of MMS is nice... the technical details are not. | 10:15 |
| mavhc | get new friends | 10:15 |
| frals | :( | 10:16 |
| mavhc | it's the only way to improve society | 10:16 |
| Myrtti | MMS is about .39€ a pop here | 10:16 |
| Myrtti | or less | 10:16 |
| vesa | hf with your push email friends =) | 10:16 |
| RST38h | that's a lot | 10:16 |
| Myrtti | Sonera isn't well known for competetive prices | 10:16 |
| johnx | I guess I just don't have many pictures I need people to see immediately... | 10:16 |
| kirma | ubiquity comes from the fact that most platforms have successfully implemented the functionality back in the day when internet technologies just were not an alternative in the competition | 10:16 |
| frals | MMS is like 0.25€ a pop here, but most packages comes with free mms within the same provider or x free sms/mms / month afaik | 10:16 |
| RST38h | e0.39*45=r17.55=4.1MB of fdata | 10:16 |
| kirma | competition for consumer mass market | 10:17 |
| RST38h | That is like my daily mobile data usage | 10:17 |
| mavhc | sending sms is more expensive than getting data from hubble | 10:17 |
| kirma | I thought MMSes were the same cost as SMSes in .fi, but then again, haven't sent one in years | 10:17 |
| mavhc | they are, but you need 3 | 10:18 |
| Myrtti | and for internet you pay .9€ for an hour | 10:18 |
| Myrtti | so if my sister would send an email from her phone that contains a picture, one every two weeks | 10:18 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: This means you have got too expensive internet | 10:18 |
| frals | hm, they are more like 0.16€ here appearently, and SMSes are like 0.06€.. ;o | 10:18 |
| Myrtti | which is cheaper, sending that picture as an mms or as an email...? | 10:18 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: she doesn't *need* internet in her phone for anything | 10:19 |
| kirma | the signalling logic of SMS is certainly attractive, too bad it isn't trivially implementable for phones with IP | 10:19 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Still, e0.90/hr for internet is robbery | 10:19 |
| frals | without a dataplan the cost per MB here is 1.5€ | 10:19 |
| RST38h | e0.09/MB here | 10:19 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: having a fixed rate package is too expensive to justify the usage of it for two emails | 10:19 |
| Myrtti | or whatever | 10:19 |
| RST38h | rounded to 100kB every hour | 10:19 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: the e0.09/MB number is prepay, no fixed rate ;) | 10:20 |
| frals | on the other hand my 200MB package is 2.9€ pr mnth and every MB past 200 is like 0.16€/mb | 10:20 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: what I meant there's no use for her to buy a package of 9.80€ or like for month | 10:20 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically at poor tyranized europeans =) | 10:20 | |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: which would allow her to do unlimited amount of data transfer at fixed speed | 10:21 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: This sounds like a good deal though | 10:21 |
| kirma | there's pretty obvious cartel on bulk mobile internet prices in .fi. 1 Mbps costs 20 euros from every operator, 2 Mbps 30 euros, and even lower speed classes are the same to ten cents or so | 10:21 |
| Myrtti | it is a good deal, I have it | 10:21 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Maybe you should just teach her how to make use of all this data? | 10:21 |
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| kirma | couple years back all of them dropped the prices from earlier, equivalent levels to the current ones | 10:21 |
| Myrtti | She's a coffee shop worker - where the bloody hell would she need that package? | 10:22 |
| wazd | Heya all | 10:22 |
| Myrtti | that's the point I've tried to make | 10:22 |
| Myrtti | not everyone has mobile internet in their phone | 10:22 |
| Myrtti | because not everyone needs it | 10:22 |
| frals | yeah | 10:22 |
| Myrtti | they don't have use for it, and they don't want to pay for it | 10:22 |
| frals | which is why MMS is good from an end user pov. im quite positive it sucks donkey balls from a dev pov :p | 10:23 |
| RST38h | but they want pictures? | 10:23 |
| Myrtti | if they want to send a picture of their cat to a friend maybe once a month, mms is far more affordable with even the ridiculously expensive price of .39€ a pop | 10:23 |
| RST38h | at e0.35 a pop? | 10:23 |
| RST38h | Sorry, 0.39 | 10:23 |
| * kirma thinks he should actually downgrade his 1 Mbps deal to some pay-as-you-go one, as I think I haven't used more than couple ten megabytes per month lately (although that's going to change with next phone again...) | 10:23 | |
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| * RST38h uses something like 100MB a month | 10:24 | |
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| * kirma used to use maybe half a gigabyte per month at best | 10:24 | |
| Myrtti | my sister doesn't understand facebook status updates. Only thing she does there is play bloody bejeweled blitz. You can't play it with your mobile phone from facebook | 10:24 |
| RST38h | That would be difficult over egprs =) | 10:24 |
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| Myrtti | she doesn't have the urgent need to read her email every hour | 10:25 |
| Myrtti | or check the news | 10:25 |
| kirma | and then again, at home... well over hundred gigabytes per month. still, the fixed line and the mobile data deal are the same cost :I | 10:25 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: I am sure you CAN find some way to addict her to mobile internet =) | 10:25 |
| frals | i used 10mb last month appearently.. disabling images while surfing on the phone saves quite a bit appearently :P | 10:25 |
| Myrtti | she uses her phone for sms, phone calls, taking a few pictures of her children, and maybe sending a picture or two to a friend with mms | 10:25 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Maybe not right now, but eventially, putting your mind to it... =) | 10:25 |
| frals | and irc doesnt take too much data either | 10:25 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: why would I? she doesn't need mobile internet, and certainly can live without the extra 10€ in her phonebill | 10:26 |
| Myrtti | she still owes me 150€ from June | 10:26 |
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| Myrtti | I don't mind that n900 doesn't have mms | 10:26 |
| kirma | I think the cheapest non-unreasonably priced mobile internet deals are something like 2-5 euros per month for modest amount of traffic | 10:26 |
| Myrtti | clearly it's not made for people like my sister | 10:26 |
| Myrtti | I have no use for mms | 10:27 |
| Myrtti | I | 10:27 |
| johnx | the data costs in the US are quite strange | 10:27 |
| Myrtti | I'll buy n900 without the mms | 10:27 |
| Myrtti | but in *general*, since we've let people to be accustomed to phones having mms, it's a feature we just can't pull from the phones | 10:28 |
| kirma | I'd hope devices like N900 would put pressure on "mobile broadband" prices once again. although lowering them too much would cause network congestion trouble, which couldn't be solved without network hardware upgrades... | 10:28 |
| johnx | voice+$30 for (not really) unlimited and $10 for this weird "unlimited mobile-web only" that only is valid for non-smartphones | 10:28 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Oh. | 10:28 |
| Myrtti | and by we I mean the "us techies who develop these things called phones" | 10:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: do they firewall ssh? | 10:28 |
| * frals agrees with Myrtti, except for not having use of MMS :D | 10:28 | |
| RST38h | Myrtti: I know plenty of non-techies around here who use mobile internet | 10:28 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: good for you. I hope they can afford it. My sister can't | 10:29 |
| kirma | I wonder how much or how the .fi operators actually enforce their rules which, at least some that I remember, state that running P2P on mobile broadband "isn't allowed" | 10:29 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: it is cheaper here | 10:29 |
| johnx | RST38h, nope, it's some kind of transparent proxy | 10:29 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: on the other hand, lower salaries | 10:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: useless then =( | 10:29 |
| kirma | which is sort of understandable limit, although it's certainly a trivialization of what they're trying to accomplish | 10:30 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: it's really cheap here, but it's still too expensive in her use | 10:30 |
| johnx | RST38h, useless that they don't firewall ssh? | 10:30 |
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| johnx | ssh goes through just fine... | 10:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: ah, you men they do not firewall | 10:30 |
| johnx | correct. and the transparent proxy is ... actually transparent | 10:30 |
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| johnx | but if my usage gets high enough to gather attention I'll probably be dropped off that plan | 10:31 |
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| RST38h | johnx: it actually sounds decent although I cannot understand how they can drop you | 10:32 |
| RST38h | If you sign for a year, let us say, won't that be a breach of contract? | 10:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's a plan for "dumbphones" only, and forbids tethering | 10:33 |
| johnx | and they "block" tethering with their custom firmware, but not very well | 10:33 |
| RST38h | Eh. | 10:33 |
| johnx | s/firmware/phone firmware/ | 10:33 |
| infobot | johnx meant: and they "block" tethering with their custom phone firmware, but not very well | 10:33 |
| johnx | also, the data part is actually month-to-month for me | 10:34 |
| kirma | johnx: god forbid if they tried to enforce such contract models in europe, or at least in .fi | 10:34 |
| johnx | it'd suck though, cause I like them as a carrier well enough | 10:34 |
| frals | seems like data plans differs a lot between different countries :p | 10:35 |
| kirma | I've got the impression that they enforce the contract pricing by observing phone IMEI | 10:35 |
| kirma | in US, I mean. | 10:35 |
| johnx | yup | 10:35 |
| johnx | so the smart phones they subsidize aren't eligibile for the cheap data plans | 10:36 |
| johnx | almost no one just orders a sim | 10:36 |
| kirma | although from some perspective these things make sense, it still seems that competition on the mobile market just doesn't exist across the pond | 10:36 |
| kirma | and it seems absurd when the operators lobby their stuff, obviously trusting on the chance that decision-makers don't know jack about the situation on other continents | 10:37 |
| RST38h | johnx: You can't use any phone on a contract?!? | 10:37 |
| RST38h | johnx: have to use the one they give you? | 10:37 |
| frals | btw until i read t.m.o. i had no idea some operators actually blocked tethering for 3g access | 10:38 |
| johnx | RST38h, oh, you *can.* no one does | 10:38 |
| RST38h | kirma: Dropping all this crap and charging reasonable price per MB makes way more sense | 10:38 |
| RST38h | johnx: Gooood =) | 10:38 |
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| RST38h | kirma: Then you can play with these traffic prices, like lower them at night, let users buy some amount at lower price, etc | 10:39 |
| johnx | kirma, I don't see that many people *moving* to get better cell service :) | 10:39 |
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| johnx | people here just want simple and aren't smart enough to figure out that subsidized is more expensive in the long run | 10:39 |
| Myrtti | johnx: what we need is Finnish telecoms buying the other companies ;-) | 10:39 |
| Myrtti | *cough* like Sonera bought air from Germany | 10:40 |
| Myrtti | *cough* *cough* | 10:40 |
| johnx | we have t-mobile here. :) | 10:40 |
| johnx | they play by US rules in the US | 10:40 |
| kirma | even varying prices depending on time of day would be ok, as long as the service wouldn't be taken away or restricted for arbitary reasons, like las vegas casinos. after all, that kind of service has been applied on calls quite successfully... | 10:40 |
| Myrtti | johnx: *all* the other companies | 10:40 |
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| johnx | kirma, people here would never go for it. people love their "unlimited" plans, even if a limited plan would be cheaper | 10:41 |
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| tigert | wow | 10:42 |
| tigert | 2.8GB incoming data on my N900 :-O | 10:42 |
| kirma | and "unlimited" as long as you don't figure out a way to actually gain reasonable benefit from the plan | 10:43 |
| johnx | crap. they're definitely gonna notice if I start using data like that O_o; | 10:43 |
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| johnx | kirma, people are fine with it because it doesn't affect them for the most part | 10:43 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810 you git! | 10:43 |
| johnx | the iphone is changing that slowly I think, but it comes with a real "unlimited" plan, except it's destroying AT&T's service quality with everyone online all the time without caring about how much data they use | 10:44 |
| johnx | quite a funny situation actually :) | 10:44 |
| kirma | I still consider it funny that iPhone MMS was so strongly advertised as AT&T network meltdown event | 10:44 |
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| johnx | really. I didn't know they had a specific MMS meltdown | 10:46 |
| johnx | I just thought they were just in a state of partial meltdown all the time | 10:46 |
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| kirma | I wonder how much network congestion there is in .fi networks in practice. I suspect considerably less... | 10:46 |
| cmug | mavhc, johnx, thats why you have the Ovi share account and you put the picture there | 10:46 |
| johnx | people pay attention to their data usage instead of hitting youtube on the bus, so yes, probably :) | 10:46 |
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| lcuk | putting pictures on public accounts is not always wanted | 10:47 |
| kirma | sounds like they rob the money from consumers and actively avoid proper capacity planning and upgrades, because that would give the customers better service than what keeps them on the network | 10:47 |
| lcuk | i want to sometimes send a picture to a specific user with the expectation of privacy and "for your eyes only" | 10:47 |
| kirma | and of course when most customers are on several-year plan, it's not very hard to keep them | 10:47 |
| cmug | lcuk, or you can send it to them on email | 10:47 |
| RST38h | kirma: Well, set the MB price so that 1GB of data costs the user $50, and you have solved most of the network problems while keeping users happy | 10:47 |
| johnx | kirma, better than that: carriers aren't compatible with each other :D | 10:47 |
| lcuk | cmug, only a few people have email on their phones | 10:48 |
| lcuk | even if capable, most dont configure it | 10:48 |
| johnx | you can't take the iphone (unlocked or not) to a different US carrier and use the 3G | 10:48 |
| RST38h | kirma: No need to disconnect people, sue them, firewall them, etc | 10:48 |
| cmug | lcuk, when they buy the n900 (or two) they will | 10:48 |
| RST38h | kirma: Then, as your network grows, lower the price | 10:48 |
| lcuk | why would they | 10:48 |
| cmug | because the will create a ovi email account | 10:48 |
| lcuk | i dont see the point in email on my mobile device | 10:48 |
| RST38h | cmug: Sure about it? | 10:48 |
| lcuk | its something i leave for big pc still | 10:49 |
| cmug | RST38h, lets see :) | 10:49 |
| johnx | conversely, in the US, the N900 will be t-mobile only (in terms of 3G access) | 10:49 |
| cmug | s/will/should/ | 10:49 |
| * lcuk has never configured an email account on any mobile device | 10:49 | |
| * RST38h used Modest today. What is this world coming to? | 10:50 | |
| kirma | the problem with email on the phone is that I get way too much of if to funnel it all to the phone, and a more dedicated filter for the stuff is going to drop lots of stuff that I want to read eventually anyway | 10:50 |
| lcuk | cmug, my email account gets so much traffic | 10:50 |
| RST38h | kirma: Headers-Only save the day | 10:50 |
| cmug | so do mine | 10:50 |
| RST38h | kirma: And IMAP too | 10:50 |
| Myrtti | why the bloody hell would I want my work email on my phone? | 10:50 |
| lcuk | cos your collegue might want to send you a picture! | 10:51 |
| Myrtti | or get "You've been invited to an event" emails from facebook? | 10:51 |
| johnx | Myrtti, spoken like someone who isn't permanently "on call" | 10:51 |
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| lcuk | difference johnx | 10:51 |
| Myrtti | johnx: most of us aren't | 10:51 |
| kirma | rst38h: well, still, hundreds of emails per day are unbearable to even look at on a phone | 10:51 |
| lcuk | if you are oncall | 10:51 |
| lcuk | you get your work people to setup your work device | 10:51 |
| RST38h | kirma: it is fine if they are threaded | 10:51 |
| johnx | lcuk, crap, I knew I was doing something wrong... | 10:51 |
| Myrtti | if I'm not by my computer, I'm not working | 10:52 |
| Myrtti | if I am, I most likely am | 10:52 |
| lcuk | johnx, why are you using your personal device as a work tool - i hope you are compensated accordingly | 10:52 |
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| * kirma is in many ways stuck into early nineties unix world technology-wise, and doesn't want to change very easily... although many things would get simplified if he did | 10:52 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: I prefer to use a single device for everything, so no need for compensation | 10:52 |
| johnx | lcuk, I'm working on making them define when I'm "on call" at least | 10:53 |
| johnx | one step at a time | 10:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Now, if somebody insists on giving me a second device, there is a big chance it will be left at the desk | 10:53 |
| lcuk | RST38h, your personal preference is not the same thing | 10:53 |
| lcuk | i understand you can use the same device | 10:53 |
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| cmug | filtering is the key to success | 10:55 |
| lcuk | is the filtering documented clearly currently | 10:55 |
| lcuk | and could [random_person] set it up easily | 10:56 |
| lcuk | so they dont miss their work mails | 10:56 |
| cmug | i don't filter on the phones, i filter on thunderbird or server directly | 10:56 |
| cmug | erm | 10:56 |
| cmug | i am a technically oriented person, so i find it difficult to think that somebody who would use filtering would need help setting it up | 10:56 |
| cmug | i understand that my mother in law would not be able to setup filtering rules, but she receives one email per week | 10:57 |
| lcuk | i am a technical person also - i think and write in c at a very low level | 10:57 |
| johnx | lots of people at my office receive huge amounts of email but are some of the least "technical" in the company | 10:57 |
| lcuk | email filtering is something i have rarely stepped into and is outside my field of knowledge | 10:57 |
| johnx | think: customer service, marketing, etc | 10:57 |
| lcuk | why should i spend a week setting up something like that | 10:57 |
| cmug | ok i give up | 10:58 |
| cmug | you win, lets moan about lack of mms together | 10:58 |
| lcuk | lets find a solution rather | 10:58 |
| lcuk | i see there are people digging and seeign libraries and mechanisms | 10:58 |
| lcuk | and of course, someone at nokia itself has to know! | 10:58 |
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| cmug | sure if it can be implemented it should be | 11:01 |
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| lcuk | nod, im sure some of the maemo guys have beers with some other guys from different departments. we might be a different OS but get the right people together and they might be able to find a solution | 11:03 |
| kirma | I wonder if MMS implementations might have patent mines on trivial issues | 11:04 |
| kirma | like, there's a bunch of patents related to text input methods (like T9, even if it's not exactly T9), and SMS | 11:05 |
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| lcuk | sms is there | 11:05 |
| kirma | patentability of those "inventions" is questionable at the best, but what can you do now | 11:05 |
| lcuk | and i have to say, works better than any other implementation ive ever used :$ | 11:05 |
| kirma | I suppose N900 specifically chooses not to implement T9? | 11:06 |
| lcuk | it has a qwerty keyboard | 11:06 |
| kirma | yep | 11:06 |
| kirma | but so has E90... | 11:06 |
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| lcuk | kirma, thats because it has a phone keypad too | 11:08 |
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| X-Fade | kirma: But you get T9 for free with Nokia's Symbian ;) | 11:11 |
| AStorm | s/free/included in price/ | 11:12 |
| AStorm | you don't get it in the free version | 11:13 |
| *** ab[out] is now known as ab | 11:13 | |
| AStorm | T9 is propietary | 11:13 |
| X-Fade | AStorm: Sure, but for Nokia it is no work to add it for E90 as they have it in every other phone. | 11:13 |
| AStorm | (while I could make a better, more accurate system w/o infringing on that fairly broad patent, it wouldn't be easy) | 11:13 |
| kirma | of course, it's licensed. but even trying to implement reasonably equivalent functionality would, stupidly enough, be a patent breach | 11:14 |
| AStorm | true | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | And those firmwares are just the basic components added together ;) | 11:14 |
| AStorm | kirma: that's why you have to read the patent and circumvent it | 11:14 |
| AStorm | :> | 11:14 |
| AStorm | should be possible | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | I really see no use for T9 on N900 or N810. | 11:14 |
| AStorm | yes, there is none | 11:15 |
| AStorm | we have a full keyboard there | 11:15 |
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| johnx | AStorm, though if you read the pattent and they find you infringing you might suffer a larger fine then someone who claims they never heard of it ;) | 11:15 |
| AStorm | no. | 11:15 |
| kirma | X-Fade: I can understand, but the patent issue spaghetti is probably one more reason pushing it away from the device... | 11:15 |
| AStorm | johnx: that doesn't work that way | 11:15 |
| AStorm | I just get a cease and desist | 11:16 |
| AStorm | and then I do that. | 11:16 |
| X-Fade | kirma: Nah, how about not spending time on useless components ;) | 11:16 |
| AStorm | or I can take it to the court | 11:16 |
| ab | MMS is not so easy. I've been told there are technical requirements to have two separate IPv4 namespaces when dealing with MMS and GPRS/EDGE/3G at the same time, as gateways might have same IP networks provided and then you'd have collisions | 11:16 |
| AStorm | hehe | 11:16 |
| AStorm | simple - fix the gateway | 11:17 |
| kirma | on every operator separately... | 11:17 |
| ab | the gateway is something that belongs to an operator | 11:17 |
| RST38h | ab: No way??? | 11:17 |
| AStorm | MMS gateway doesn't have to provide any networks | 11:17 |
| AStorm | only MMS. | 11:17 |
| RST38h | So THAT may be the reason for "kernel MMS support" | 11:17 |
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| AStorm | the real fix is: add a correct route | 11:18 |
| X-Fade | So it needs some kind of tunnel? | 11:18 |
| ab | RST38h, there are ways, of course, but someone needs to investigate them. My current metaphor is that an issue similar to have correct implementation of something like VLAN tagging over the same ethernet port | 11:18 |
| AStorm | so MMS gateway only gets one route | 11:18 |
| AStorm | exactly to its IP | 11:18 |
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| AStorm | and nothing else | 11:18 |
| AStorm | hmm, although... | 11:19 |
| AStorm | the dumb ISP might be using a subnet to provide MMS | 11:19 |
| ab | AStorm, fun is in the case when both IPs are the same from both gateways | 11:19 |
| kirma | I suppose MMS is run over separate ATM/ISDN virtual connection or whatever it should be called, which itself isn't bad, but overlapping routes sure make it more problematic | 11:19 |
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| ab | so at least from my ISP-related past I know it is possible to solve on a stock 2.4/2.6 kernel but for what price and control over networking setup? | 11:20 |
| kirma | I can imagine how it can be implemented without kernel modifications, but it's certainly more complicated than the benefit of having MMS for average N900 users would warrant straight away | 11:20 |
| AStorm | ab: then you add a multipath route? | 11:20 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 11:20 |
| AStorm | or rather, why then the other ASN won't accept MMS? | 11:21 |
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| johnx | kinda seems like the thing you put in, say a 5.1 release :) | 11:21 |
| ab | AStorm, I was thinking along the line of having packets tagged with iptables and then routed to a separate routing table within ip rule | 11:21 |
| AStorm | ab: yes yes, nice idea | 11:21 |
| AStorm | or instead, just routed via a device | 11:21 |
| AStorm | so you have ppp0 and ppp1 | 11:21 |
| AStorm | one for MMS, the other for internet | 11:22 |
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| AStorm | both via different ASNs | 11:22 |
| AStorm | but that needs some kernel support, yes | 11:22 |
| ab | sure, but you need to have the packets tagged first because those interfaces might still have same IP subnets and you would need to help a routing a bit with proper tagging | 11:22 |
| AStorm | naah | 11:23 |
| ab | with such approach no kernel changes are needed but some user space work on tunnel setup and rules for firewall/ip rule | 11:23 |
| AStorm | you could rename the routes | 11:23 |
| AStorm | e.g. 123.123.123.0 -> MMS route | 11:23 |
| AStorm | via a hard iproute2 NAT | 11:23 |
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| AStorm | ab: you still need kernel support | 11:24 |
| AStorm | note different ASNs | 11:24 |
| AStorm | so you need 2 ppp devices | 11:24 |
| AStorm | otherwise it will go through the wrong ASN | 11:24 |
| AStorm | and might get rejected | 11:24 |
| ab | if you have two interfaces, say ppp0, ppp1, both span the same IP subnet (GPRS gateway and MMS gateway gave you overlapping networks), you need to set routes quite carefully for that | 11:25 |
| AStorm | not carefully | 11:25 |
| AStorm | it's very simple really | 11:25 |
| AStorm | different metric (= priority) | 11:25 |
| AStorm | internet route gets higher priority | 11:25 |
| ab | yep, and then you'd need to tag packets based on a content, not only destination | 11:25 |
| AStorm | and then you add a hard dumb NAT (using some local IPs) to access that other route | 11:25 |
| AStorm | no. | 11:26 |
| AStorm | you do a trick | 11:26 |
| AStorm | ip renaming. | 11:26 |
| AStorm | far easier | 11:26 |
| ab | yep, that is what I was suggesting as well | 11:26 |
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| AStorm | no, you were suggesting an owner match in iptables | 11:26 |
| AStorm | which is... ugh. | 11:26 |
| ab | no | 11:26 |
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| AStorm | ab: or l7 match, even more ugly | 11:26 |
| ab | this is one of approaches, another was exactly what you have said | 11:26 |
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| AStorm | ab | AStorm, I was thinking along the line of having packets tagged with iptables and then routed to a separate routing table within ip rule | 11:27 |
| AStorm | no. | 11:27 |
| ab | AStorm, care to write it up on wiki.maemo.org? | 11:27 |
| AStorm | ip rule would need some protocol match | 11:27 |
| AStorm | while NAT would need only a tiny bit of knowledge in the MMS app | 11:27 |
| ab | ip rule needs a mark from firewall, it is enough there | 11:28 |
| AStorm | (it must know about IP rename) | 11:28 |
| AStorm | mark from firewall based on what? | 11:28 |
| AStorm | ;p | 11:28 |
| AStorm | owner? protocol? both are ugly | 11:28 |
| AStorm | instead, I'd rather have MMS mapped to some constant ip subnet | 11:28 |
| ab | make sure you also cover a case when hosts A and B which belong to MMS and GPRS networks have the same IP and you need to send to A for MMS and access B on a GPRS network for everything else | 11:29 |
| AStorm | maybe even ipv6 to not clobber anything | 11:29 |
| AStorm | ;p | 11:29 |
| ab | this is something that guys internally were showing as evidence from some of operators | 11:29 |
| AStorm | sure it does, metric takes care of this case | 11:29 |
| AStorm | while the nat rule takes care of the rename and routes to the correct ppp device | 11:29 |
| ab | AStorm, please write your proposal on wiki.maemo.org | 11:30 |
| AStorm | and the routing table *doesn't* look at the metric then. | 11:30 |
| AStorm | (since the device is specified) | 11:30 |
| AStorm | ab: hmmh, I don't even have an account | 11:30 |
| AStorm | but I will write it down | 11:30 |
| ab | time to create :) | 11:30 |
| AStorm | after I implement a test setup here | 11:30 |
| ab | good | 11:30 |
| AStorm | or, you can add the routing info for MMS to another routing table | 11:31 |
| AStorm | but that may require a patch for ppp | 11:31 |
| ab | again, as I was saying :) <ab> AStorm, I was thinking along the line of having packets tagged with iptables and then routed to a separate routing table within ip rule | 11:32 |
| AStorm | tagged with iptables = fallible | 11:32 |
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| AStorm | since any tagging done there will be either on owner (one process? please...) | 11:32 |
| AStorm | or content (slow and... meh) | 11:33 |
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| AStorm | others will infringe on internet access | 11:33 |
| AStorm | although you could do a NAT in iptables | 11:34 |
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| ab | ip rule can work with nat (it has nat option) | 11:35 |
| ab | it also has incoming interface to match, that would be an easiest thing if we could make it a sort of a tunnel where applications always send to a locally maintained address (on some tun/tap interface) | 11:36 |
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| ab | and we re-write routing based on a packet that comes from that interface | 11:36 |
| ab | pure NAT | 11:36 |
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| AStorm | incoming interface? ugh. | 11:37 |
| AStorm | worse than having some constant local ip range | 11:37 |
| AStorm | which is far easier to adapt apps to. | 11:37 |
| AStorm | e.g. you could have MMS on 127.0.127.x | 11:37 |
| AStorm | or such. | 11:37 |
| ab | just as what I was going to right | 11:38 |
| ab | write | 11:38 |
| AStorm | incoming on MMS is routed fine already | 11:38 |
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| AStorm | (since ip rule will catch it) | 11:38 |
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| ab | yes, it is more or less clear | 11:42 |
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| ab | would be good to have a write up so that I can further point internal guys to this proposal | 11:42 |
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| asd123123 | http://17fc5c36.linkbucks.com | 11:44 |
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| frals | awesome, i see talk about mms! :D *jumping around with joy* ;) | 12:19 |
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| * RST38h throws a stack of MMS standards documentation at frals | 12:20 | |
| Sargun | MMS? | 12:20 |
| frals | way to bring me down fast, RST38h ;) | 12:20 |
| Sargun | would this be the appropriate place to ask about the N900? | 12:21 |
| * RST38h calls the asylum in advance, to arrange for a recovery team | 12:21 | |
| frals | hehe | 12:21 |
| frals | Sargun: probably, thats mostly what i do in here, when im not trying to get people insane by talking about mms ;) | 12:21 |
| Sargun | If I ordered the N900 right now (pre-order) when would I get it? (I'm in the US) | 12:22 |
| Sargun | Also, is the N900 locked to T-Mobile? | 12:22 |
| frals | none knows about shipping date, lots of speculation going on about the coming 2 weeks from some .eu nokia stores thou | 12:23 |
| frals | Afaik none is locking it, but it only supports T-Mobile 3G frequency in the US, so any other provider would give you EDGE at best | 12:23 |
| lcuk | astorm, ab, anyone interested in mms - i have posted the conversation. it is not a proposal though, wikieditors and people skilled can have a go and discuss how to clean up the details http://wiki.maemo.org/Mms_implemention_conversation | 12:26 |
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| lcuk | feel free to add to it and post anything related :) | 12:26 |
| AStorm | :) | 12:27 |
| frals | cool | 12:27 |
| * AStorm is fucking overtime | 12:27 | |
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| lcuk | AStorm, are you at the summit this year? | 12:29 |
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| AStorm | no, it's in the hottest part of the semester | 12:30 |
| AStorm | the beginning | 12:30 |
| AStorm | I MIGHT go there. | 12:30 |
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| AStorm | not sure if I'll be able to | 12:30 |
| X-Fade | AStorm: If you haven't registered, you are out of luck anyway. | 12:31 |
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| AStorm | sure I haven't | 12:33 |
| AStorm | so, I'm out of luck ;p | 12:33 |
| AStorm | I might try to go there and bash at the gates ;p | 12:33 |
| X-Fade | There will be a strict door policy at some events at least. | 12:33 |
| Sargun | haha | 12:35 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:52 |
| johnx | mornin' Jaffa | 12:52 |
| frals | lo o/ | 12:52 |
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| lcuk | morning jaffa \o is there a guidebook for council stuff btw | 13:06 |
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| yigal | anyone using native maemo, not chroot app., eboard for chess on n8x0 and get around it crashing? | 13:08 |
| yigal | I can't finish a ten minute game on FICS without it crashing | 13:09 |
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| rmrfchik | i wonder, do n900 support j2me? | 13:16 |
| kirma | as far as I've understood, not without extra software at least... | 13:18 |
| johnx | rmrfchik, might be able to use jalimo and microemulator, but it'd be slow | 13:19 |
| range | Java is there for ARM now (well, still seems to be a prerelease). | 13:19 |
| johnx | range, that's just j2se, not j2me, right? or is j2me out as well now? | 13:21 |
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| glass_ | theres solutions that run on j2se that run j2me. but i'd be intrested if anyones really tried that stuff on maemo lately | 13:22 |
| johnx | that's microemulator. I think it's supposed to be ungodly slow | 13:22 |
| range | johnx: j2se, yeah. | 13:22 |
| glass | hmm. well. it's not really slow, no reason anyhow | 13:22 |
| range | No idea how slow me on top of that is. | 13:23 |
| glass | basically just implementing the supporting classes is what they do | 13:23 |
| johnx | glass, well, the guy who tried it said it was slow. that's all I'm going by | 13:23 |
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| infobot | I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power | 13:34 |
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| RichiH | i have been abroad for the last 4-ish weeks so forgive me my ignorance if this has been covered in the past.. are there any plans for reduced-price community sale of the n900? | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | not announced | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | where are you in the world? | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | In some parts subsidised phones through the secondary markert of mobile shops are becoming available | 13:37 |
| RichiH | .de | 13:37 |
| range | Out of luck then :) | 13:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't know about .de - uk certainly | 13:37 |
| range | I haven't found it subsidized anywhere in .de yet. | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it, you could purchase it with a contract cancellable in a month for 392 pounds - not 499 from nokia | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | in the UK | 13:39 |
| range | cyberport.de has it for EUR 519 instead of EUR 599, but I wouldn't call that subsidized. | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't know if they ship to .de | 13:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | RichiH: are SIM-only data plans reasonably priced in germany | 13:40 |
| range | What is a "SIM-only" data plan? | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | In the UK, a data/voice plan without a phone costs approximately the same as one with a phone worth 100 quid (120 euro) | 13:43 |
| SpeedEvil | This makes it not that great value. | 13:43 |
| SpeedEvil | The secondary market - independant mobile phone shops can sign you up for a 12 month contract with a phone company, and get a kickback, some of which they can spend on reducing the cost of your phone. One of these is offering the n900, which makes it significantly cheaper than it would otherwise be. | 13:45 |
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| Myrtti | I'm not too sure if I understood that with my limited brain power I seem to have today | 13:49 |
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| lcuk | apt-get upgrade Myrttis_brain | 13:50 |
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| range | SpeedEvil: I know of no "data plans only" which come with a phone. There are some coming with a USB device or with netbooks. | 13:51 |
| frals | E: Couldn't find package Myrttis_brain ;-) | 13:51 |
| lcuk | o_O yikes | 13:51 |
| lcuk | must have wrong repositories | 13:51 |
| range | Or did I completely misunderstand that? | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | range: i mean data/voice | 13:51 |
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| range | Ummm. Isn't that "just" a subsidized phone then? >:) | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | range: yes - I'm trying to point out - and failing - that you cannot purchase a contract with SIM-only for the price of a contract with a phone - minus the price of the phone. | 13:54 |
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| lardman | drat, battery on my iRiver is really dead this time | 13:56 |
| range | SpeedEvil: Which doesn't change the fact that I'm not seeing the n900 subsidized anywhere here in .de - not yet at least :) | 13:56 |
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| lcuk | lardman, bleugh iriver | 14:03 |
| lcuk | replace it with an n900 | 14:03 |
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| lardman | yeah, but need to keep swapping mmc | 14:04 |
| lcuk | mmm how much music do you need! | 14:05 |
| lardman | well I have 20Gb on my iRiver | 14:05 |
| lcuk | im having trouble filling 1gb, let along however much there is | 14:05 |
| lcuk | isnt it 32gb? | 14:05 |
| lardman | yeah | 14:05 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 14:06 |
| * lcuk fills it with the most impressive collection of bacon photographs ever | 14:06 | |
| cmug | 32+16 on an mmc | 14:06 |
| lcuk | mmmm 48gb of bacon | 14:07 |
| lardman | ok, will have to go get myself an N900 then | 14:07 |
| lcuk | that should keep me going till lunch | 14:07 |
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| lardman | ~lart GTK treeviews | 14:10 |
| * infobot whips out a shotgun, trudges over to GTK treeviews, and goes postal | 14:10 | |
| lardman | and segfaults for that matter | 14:10 |
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| range | I wonder if christexaport will get it at some time that maemo doesn't rotate around him (Ha! I made a play on words!) | 14:14 |
| lopz | gm ;) | 14:14 |
| Sho_ | a few weeks/months back there was a big piece on gtk+ theming problems in connection to maemo somewhere | 14:15 |
| Sho_ | anybody got a link to that? | 14:15 |
| ShadowJK | 32+32 | 14:17 |
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| zerojay | WTFJASODJA | 14:23 |
| zerojay | My wireless data provider charged me $1 per minute for voice calls made over Skype. | 14:24 |
| ShadowJK | What were you using for skype? | 14:24 |
| lcuk | omg zerojay | 14:24 |
| lcuk | charges specifically for skype? or data usage over your budget? | 14:25 |
| lcuk | if its specifically skype, what are the bastards doing sniffing your stream | 14:25 |
| zerojay | My data use is on a flex plan so if i go over a set limit, I'll be bumped up to the next highest tier without overage fees. | 14:26 |
| zerojay | So yes... they caught the fact that I was using skype and decided to make me pay for it. wtf. | 14:26 |
| ShadowJK | Did you use skype on N810? | 14:26 |
| zerojay | No. | 14:26 |
| lardman | Yeah, Vodafone said they charge for VoIP | 14:26 |
| lardman | and p2p | 14:26 |
| zerojay | It's the same fucking data though. | 14:26 |
| florian | My provider just decided not to charge for VoIP any more. | 14:26 |
| ShadowJK | zerojay, skype on a laptop? | 14:27 |
| range | zerojay: Yeah, but you don't place calls with your phone company then :) | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | 'three' - in the UK have decided to offer skype calls free | 14:27 |
| zerojay | range: Yeah, easy to say that. | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | no need to even buy internet data for them | 14:27 |
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| zerojay | ShadowJK: No. | 14:27 |
| Ciroip | g sysinternal | 14:27 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, you know skype on cellphones is crippled. It uses voice calls not VoIP | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: not as I understand it | 14:28 |
| zerojay | ShadowJK: Not true. | 14:28 |
| range | zerojay: My provider here says that it is okay to VOIP via their data plan (well, you need a non-data plan anyway) ... | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.three.co.uk/Internet_Services/Call_chat/Call_chat_service?content_aid=1220455597804 | 14:29 |
| ShadowJK | zerojay, so what skype client on what device did you use? :-) | 14:29 |
| zerojay | range: All providers should say it's okay. It's all the same fucking data! | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | (on three/skype) | 14:29 |
| zerojay | ShadowJK: It doesn't matter. | 14:29 |
| range | zerojay: Yeah, but they'll tell you that it cuts into their "business model". | 14:29 |
| ShadowJK | zerojay, yes it does, because some of them don't do VoIP | 14:30 |
| zerojay | Like I give a flying fuck about maintaining their high prices. | 14:30 |
| zerojay | ShadowJK: What I'm using does voip. | 14:30 |
| ShadowJK | So what is it? | 14:30 |
| range | Skype?= | 14:30 |
| ShadowJK | range, there are like half a dozen different ones atleast.. | 14:31 |
| zerojay | Again, it doesn't matter. | 14:31 |
| range | zerojay: They care. They're the phone company. :) | 14:31 |
| range | And so you don't need to care, because they already do. | 14:32 |
| range | zerojay: What would happen if you did that from your computer? | 14:32 |
| ShadowJK | The skype page seems to indicate you get free skype-skype with iphone when you have wifi coverage, presumably same deal with windows mobile. On other devices they recommend "Skype Lite" and say "Make a local call on your mobile or use your inclusive minutes to reach your contacts Skype-to-Skype" | 14:32 |
| ShadowJK | "inclusive minutes" implies it doesn't use VoIP :-) | 14:33 |
| zerojay | range: Absolultely nothing. | 14:33 |
| andre__ | hi Stskeeps, can bug 3858 be closed? | 14:33 |
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| * RST38h moos | 14:35 | |
| * lardman heads off for lunch | 14:35 | |
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| ShadowJK | If you use Fring, then it goes via fring's proprietary protocol to fring's server, and onwards from there to skype's system :-) | 14:36 |
| ShadowJK | afaiu | 14:36 |
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| ShadowJK | http://www.skype.com/download/skype/skypelite/ check the "what does it cost" section | 14:39 |
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| ShadowJK | I sure hope we get a proper Skype client on N900 | 14:40 |
| ShadowJK | Not a wifi-only like on iphone or data-only-for-IM like in skype lite :/ | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | proper skype can have very high bandwidth charges | 14:41 |
| cmug | is there no public info about that? | 14:42 |
| SpeedEvil | the skype people would have to release a client | 14:42 |
| SpeedEvil | it's not under the control of nokia | 14:42 |
| dneary_ | Hi all | 14:42 |
| Robot101 | http://www.mobile-ent.biz/news/34208/Nokia-World-09-Nokia-N900-offers-voice-calls-Skype-and-Google-Talk | 14:42 |
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| Robot101 | ^^ skype is built in | 14:42 |
| dneary_ | I am thinking of getting some RESO FIXED "Fixed in Fremantle" t-shirts made. | 14:43 |
| dneary_ | Who would want one? | 14:43 |
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| tigert | http://maemo.nokia.com/features/phone/ | 14:44 |
| tigert | skype is mentioned there too | 14:44 |
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| ab | dneary_, can we have "WONTFIX Harmattan"? :) | 14:47 |
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| dneary | ab: I'm only making the one | 14:47 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, gotcha | 14:48 |
| lcuk | god javispedro you scare everyone when you do that | 14:48 |
| javispedro | did you check the last line of the asm routines you sent me? | 14:49 |
| lcuk | dneary, i would have a tshirt only if as part of it, the sleeve was still stitched up! | 14:49 |
| javispedro | you evil! | 14:49 |
| dneary | lcuk: That's an idea, but I don't know if Zazzle would approve ;) | 14:49 |
| lcuk | heh | 14:49 |
| lcuk | ab, you can create your own community variation on the shirt after dave ships it to you | 14:50 |
| lcuk | are we having proper maemoorg t's as well dave | 14:51 |
| ab | lcuk, hopefully when Harmattan will be released, I'll make a "Withstood a Harmattan" | 14:52 |
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| javispedro | bah, missed him again. no way I can scold him properly if he's missing. | 14:53 |
| ab | "The effect caused by the dust and sand stirred by these winds is known as the Harmattan haze, and costs airlines millions of dollars in cancelled and diverted flights each year." (Wikipedia) | 14:53 |
| lcuk | where abouts on the beaufort scale is a harmattan? is it higher up than a fremantle? | 14:53 |
| lcuk | javispedro, regular folks use email for that lol | 14:54 |
| javispedro | harmattan is more qute. | 14:54 |
| lcuk | calming relaxing? | 14:54 |
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| lcuk | harmattan haze - it sounds like something that occurs after the maemo team goes out for curry | 14:55 |
| javispedro | well, going back to work. see you in the night shift. | 14:55 |
| lcuk | cya later javispedro \o | 14:55 |
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| ab | for the Harmattan, here is a good narration: http://therandymon.com/content/view/157/59/ | 15:00 |
| lcuk | such a vivid description | 15:02 |
| lcuk | "As the rains taper off in late October a momentary pause ensues, as though the land is taking one last gasp of breath before passing underneath the wave, and then the Harmattan pours out of the north." | 15:02 |
| lcuk | thanks again ab :) | 15:03 |
| lcuk | why arent you active more often :P | 15:04 |
| ab | lcuk, you want to delay Harmattan then? :) | 15:04 |
| lcuk | lol | 15:04 |
| lcuk | actually im getting further down the page | 15:04 |
| lcuk | and it isnt quite so poetic | 15:04 |
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| ab | "Blood rains were widely reported in Portugal and Spain in 1901." yep | 15:06 |
| lcuk | nahhh not that bit | 15:06 |
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| lcuk | The harmattan brings illness as well, for the dust carries traces of everything humankind burns, dried fecal matter, and microbes of all sorts. On every side our friends suffer from respiratory infections, pink eye, and dry coughs. | 15:06 |
| lcuk | hi jeremiah \o | 15:07 |
| lcuk | lol @ i bet you are wondering what you walked into! | 15:07 |
| jeremiah | heh | 15:08 |
| ab | see, why I was withstanding a Harmattan? :) | 15:08 |
| jeremiah | :) | 15:08 |
| lcuk | ab - fair point, we need healthy coating of protection | 15:08 |
| lcuk | it started so nicely too :$ | 15:09 |
| pupnik_ | The idea of codenaming with winds is a good one | 15:10 |
| pupnik_ | as it is like a wind | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Using the names of the Devil is better though | 15:11 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well, we already had one ;) | 15:11 |
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| RST38h | Actually, yes =) | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Elephanta would be a nice name, but the poor thing has been aborted before birth =( | 15:13 |
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| RST38h | Re-enable reset and/or reset-and-clear in osso-xterm: Status=>RESOLVED, Resolution=>FIXED | 15:15 |
| * RST38h celebrates a small victory | 15:16 | |
| * lcuk | 15:16 | |
| ShadowJK | What's reset-and-clear? | 15:17 |
| RST38h | Reset terminal and clear history | 15:17 |
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| lcuk | what music are folks listening to atm | 15:29 |
| range | http://www.on3-radio.de/#/ <- the radio studio is to the right of my desk :) | 15:30 |
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| suihkulokki | nokia tune from someones phone nearby | 15:30 |
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| vesa | radio helsinki - playing kings of leon atm | 15:30 |
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| armijn | hi, I'm looking for someone from the maemo summit organisation, for a press related inquiry | 15:31 |
| lcuk | dneary, VDVsx Jaffa - question about the summit | 15:32 |
| lcuk | theres also nokia directly who you can contact | 15:32 |
| lcuk | armijn, is it something specific you *need* the very busy organisers for, or something perhaps the rest of the community could answer | 15:33 |
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| dneary | lcuk: Yes? | 15:33 |
| lcuk | armijn, not i | 15:33 |
| armijn | I want to do a report for techworld.nl (part of IDG) | 15:34 |
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| armijn | so I was wondering what the possiblities are for attending as press (I know that the summit is fully booked) | 15:34 |
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| armijn | the summit wiki was not clear on that point | 15:36 |
| tekojo | armijn might be worth asking Quim from Nokia | 15:36 |
| lcuk | dneary you know more than us though - does this sort of request have to come through you guys or nokia | 15:36 |
| tekojo | Or dneary, who so easily was summoned by lcuk :-) | 15:37 |
| lcuk | lol | 15:37 |
| dneary | armijn: Which publication? | 15:37 |
| Jaffa | qgil and Peter have a VIP list for including press, AIUI | 15:37 |
| armijn | dneary: techworld.nl, online | 15:37 |
| dneary | lcuk: Quim (more generally Nokia) are managing everything to do with the location | 15:38 |
| dneary | So qgil & Peter are indeed the people to talk to | 15:38 |
| dneary | Also, Peter's handling the marketing, so is the guy to talk to about a press pass | 15:38 |
| pupnik_ | anybody offering money for a summit slot? :) | 15:39 |
| lcuk | yea, if people give me some money, ill sell your slot | 15:40 |
| Corsac | mpf, expansys has again postponed n900, to oct 22 :( | 15:40 |
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| * lcuk giggles | 15:40 | |
| * pupnik_ ponders this | 15:40 | |
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| lcuk | i have to vanish - ta guys - armijn you have your answer | 15:41 |
| kirma | well, nokia shop representatives here have spoken about "week 44", which would bestarting oct 26 | 15:41 |
| pupnik | cu lcuk | 15:41 |
| armijn | lcuk: thanks, much appreciated | 15:42 |
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| penguinbait | WAKE UP!!! | 16:06 |
| penguinbait | now go back to sleep | 16:06 |
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| till- | done | 16:06 |
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| * RST38h wakes up, smacks penguinbait with still bloody MMS documentation stack, then goes back to sleep | 16:07 | |
| RST38h | (or should I use iA32 Architecture Software Developer's Manual?) | 16:08 |
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| lcuk | mornin qwerty12, you are such a scamp | 16:15 |
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| qwerty12 | Hi lcuk. Well, I'm not lying now, am I? :p | 16:16 |
| lcuk | lol no | 16:16 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: yes | 16:21 |
| andre__ | thanks | 16:24 |
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| LoCusF | hey, is N810 friendly towards running debconf stanzas during package postinst script? | 16:45 |
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| LoCusF | I would like to display a list from which a user can select his device (770,N8x0,N900) :) | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | you can get that info from /proc ? | 16:47 |
| qwerty12 | LoCusF: The N8x0 has "fakedebconf" so, no, debconf isn't an option :) | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | atleast as long as user is runnign standard kernel.. | 16:47 |
| LoCusF | oh crap | 16:47 |
| LoCusF | well gotta ditch that option | 16:47 |
| pupnik | things you need to know when moving code to gcc 4.3+! http://www.cyrius.com/journal/2007/05/10#gcc-4.3-include | 16:47 |
| qwerty12 | LoCusF: ShadowJK is right though: just read /proc/component_version | 16:47 |
| LoCusF | qwerty12: ok | 16:48 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: you mean a non-standard kernel | 16:48 |
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| LoCusF | whats the RX code for 770? | 16:49 |
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| qwerty12 | LoCusF: SU-18 IIRC | 16:50 |
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| LoCusF | damn, there's no awk on N810 :) | 16:51 |
| luke-jr | there is on mine | 16:51 |
| LoCusF | tried cat /proc/component_versio | grep product | awk '{print $2}' | 16:51 |
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| luke-jr | that's a bad excuse for awk | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | awk '/product/{print $2}' | 16:53 |
| luke-jr | RX-44 | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | awk '/product/{print $2}' /proc/comp... even | 16:53 |
| Corsac | Disponibilité: Date de sortie prévue pour le 29 oct. 09 | 16:54 |
| * Corsac cries | 16:55 | |
| LoCusF | cat /proc/component_version | grep product | cut -d" " -f 6 | 16:55 |
| LoCusF | that should do it :) | 16:55 |
| luke-jr | cat /proc/component_version | perl -nle 'next unless /product/; print [split /\s+/]->[1]; last' | 16:55 |
| luke-jr | wait | 16:56 |
| luke-jr | I can do better | 16:56 |
| luke-jr | perl -nle 'next unless /product/; print [split /\s+/]->[1]; last' </proc/component_version | 16:56 |
| luke-jr | only one process ftw | 16:56 |
| LoCusF | lol | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Do you know if drnoksnes uses frameskip? | 17:05 |
| pupnik | yes, manual or auto | 17:05 |
| qwerty12 | It has an option for doing so | 17:05 |
| RST38h | what is the default value? | 17:06 |
| pupnik | auto | 17:06 |
| RST38h | thanks =) | 17:06 |
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| LoCusF | can I use my current scratchbox for gregale development, I have the one with instruction for Maemo 4.1? | 17:07 |
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| lardman | hmm, start of U2's Zoo Station doesn't sound too hot with a2dp | 17:08 |
| qwerty12 | Lethal Bizzle sounds better than that on anything | 17:08 |
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| lardman | no. | 17:09 |
| lardman | :) | 17:10 |
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| qwerty12 | Sure? :p | 17:10 |
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| lardman | yeah pretty sure, I think that "file" was deleted by accident | 17:11 |
| lardman | andre__: ping | 17:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | According to Wendy Northcutt, author of the Darwin Award books: "The Awards honor people who ensure the long-term survival of the human race by removing themselves from the gene pool in a sublimely idiotic fashion." | 17:12 |
| RST38h | Macer; Of course, but you missed the fine print | 17:12 |
| lardman | have we just had the new awards? | 17:12 |
| RST38h | Macer: You can only become the FULL laureate if you remove yourself from the gene pool without killing yourself in the process | 17:13 |
| andre__ | lardman, pong | 17:13 |
| * qwerty12 placed his bet on lardman | 17:13 | |
| lardman | andre__: re bug #3417, no, the DSP kernel is completely different in Fremantle | 17:13 |
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| lardman | so give it a WONTFIX | 17:14 |
| andre__ | ah. thanks a lot! | 17:14 |
| lardman | np | 17:14 |
| * andre__ cleaning up some older tickets today | 17:14 | |
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| * lardman throws a mop | 17:14 | |
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| lardman | hmm, N900 on Expansys for £499 with £30 worth of vouchers | 17:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | really? | 17:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | One 'Honorable Mention' (a man who attempted suicide by swallowing nitroglycerine pills, and then tried to detonate them by running into a wall) is noted to be in this category, despite being intentional and self-inflicted, which would normally disqualify the inductee.[7] | 17:16 |
| frals | lol | 17:16 |
| lardman | nice | 17:16 |
| lardman | surprising he didn't bleed out then, isn't nitroglycerine used for blood thinning? | 17:17 |
| lardman | something heart related | 17:17 |
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| MaceN8x0 | heh | 17:17 |
| lardman | wow, I've never even heard the background track on this song until today | 17:18 |
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| MaceN8x0 | Using a lighter to illuminate a fuel tank to make sure it contains nothing flammable (Brazil, 2003),[12] | 17:19 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahahhaa | 17:19 |
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| lardman | one way to know it's empty anyway ;) | 17:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | Crashing through a window and falling to one's death in trying to demonstrate that the window is unbreakable.[15] | 17:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | i remember that one | 17:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | the dude jumped into his highrise window because the window was supposed to be unbreakable | 17:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | and he wanted to show off to his friends | 17:21 |
| lardman | remember the honourable mention of the chap who took off in a lawn chair w/ helium baloons attached? | 17:21 |
| qwerty12 | "In 2007, the winner was "The Enema Within", in which a man died of alcohol poisoning after having two 1.5 litre bottles (over 100 fluid ounces) of sherry inserted anally" | 17:21 |
| MoaBird | Wasn't that a priest? | 17:21 |
| lardman | nah that's walking on water | 17:21 |
| lardman | ;) | 17:21 |
| lardman | http://www.darwinawards.com/stupid/stupid1998-11.html | 17:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | One example is Lawnchair Larry, who attached helium filled weather balloons to a lawn chair and floated far above Long Beach, California, in July 1982. He reached an altitude of 16,000 feet and was later fined for crossing controlled airspace. | 17:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 17:22 |
| MoaBird | Speaking of Darwin awards, apparently the majority of both Windows and Mac users support a closed app store ala the iPhone on their home machines. | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | There was that priest that actually managed that | 17:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | i could only imagine what the jets were thinking | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | (to kill themselves with balloons) | 17:23 |
| MaceN8x0 | when they were scrambled to stop that guy | 17:23 |
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| MaceN8x0 | well | 17:23 |
| MaceN8x0 | you get sick if you bain altitude too quickly | 17:23 |
| MaceN8x0 | gain | 17:23 |
| MaceN8x0 | even if you are walking | 17:24 |
| lardman | he wasn;t doing much though | 17:24 |
| lardman | so altitude sickness ought to have less effect | 17:24 |
| derf | Walking at 16,000 feet is hard work. | 17:24 |
| derf | Or at least it is at 14,000. I don't think I've ever done it at 16,000. | 17:24 |
| MaceN8x0 | yeah | 17:24 |
| MaceN8x0 | In 2007, the winner was "The Enema Within", in which a man died of alcohol poisoning after having two 1.5 litre bottles (over 100 fluid ounces) of sherry inserted anally.[17][18] | 17:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | omg the shit people do | 17:25 |
| lardman | well very alcoholic for him I imagine | 17:25 |
| MoaBird | Meh, people are weird. | 17:25 |
| qwerty12 | Talking of which: | 17:26 |
| * qwerty12 makes a note to watch Jackass: The movie | 17:26 | |
| RST38h | [6~ | 17:26 |
| MaceN8x0 | those movies are stupid | 17:26 |
| MaceN8x0 | i just don't get them | 17:26 |
| MoaBird | Most movies are stupid. | 17:26 |
| qwerty12 | What? People launching fireworks from their ass isn't stupid | 17:27 |
| swc|666 | lol | 17:28 |
| swc|666 | cky > jackass | 17:29 |
| MoaBird | cky? | 17:29 |
| swc|666 | cky is what sparked jackass | 17:29 |
| swc|666 | camp kill yourself... bam margera, chris raab, etc etc | 17:29 |
| MoaBird | Never heard of it. I'm saddened that such a show could ever last past 3 or so episodes, actually. | 17:30 |
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| pupnik | it's pretty much what we used to do as teenagers with the first consumer cameras | 17:31 |
| pupnik | video | 17:31 |
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| MaceN8x0 | i never shot fireworks out my ass as a teenager | 17:35 |
| MaceN8x0 | that was something yokel teens do because there is nothing better to do in population: 100 | 17:36 |
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| glass | my friends did plenty of jackass style shit(even before it..). boring papermill town with lots of problems | 17:37 |
| glass | once they just went to the woods and cut down a random tree | 17:37 |
| MaceN8x0 | uhm | 17:38 |
| glass | decided afterwards that getting drunk is more fun than that | 17:38 |
| penguinbait | some kids in my town hung a dummy from an highway overpass, driver ran off the road and was killed, how stupid can you be? | 17:38 |
| MaceN8x0 | thats why meth use is higher in small places | 17:38 |
| RST38h | glass: Have their tried ritually killing, then eating goths? =) | 17:38 |
| glass | RST38h: nah. that shit is only for st petersburg | 17:39 |
| RST38h | glass: And crucifying a hamster on an upside down cross? | 17:39 |
| glass | MaceN8x0: we stayed clear out of the meth circles | 17:39 |
| MaceN8x0 | penguinbait, hahaha | 17:39 |
| MaceN8x0 | if someone tried that here it would be chaos | 17:39 |
| MaceN8x0 | some girl was going to jump from a highway bridge downtown | 17:39 |
| MaceN8x0 | a while back and all traffic in chicago was 20x worse | 17:40 |
| MaceN8x0 | because like 5 major highways merge downtown and they closed them | 17:40 |
| MaceN8x0 | as ruthless as the people here are, if she jumped they would have found her 20 hrs later with 10,000 different tire marks on her body | 17:41 |
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| lardman | hmm, I need to launch some rockets, and not out of my ass | 17:42 |
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| qwerty12 | MaceN8x0: Why stop at 10,000? +) | 17:42 |
| lardman | not had enough sunny weather to get round to it though | 17:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | qwerty12, conservative estimate ;) | 17:42 |
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| MaceN8x0 | the highway was a parking lot | 17:43 |
| MaceN8x0 | i'm suprised someone just didn't shoot her so they could go | 17:43 |
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| lcuk | lardman, thinking of novel travel arrangements to the summit? | 17:54 |
| lardman | well certainly novel immigration procedures if I bring some rockets in my hand luggage ;) | 17:55 |
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| Mek | with rockets in your hand luggage I don't think you'll even reach immigration... | 17:56 |
| qwerty12 | Be careful, you may find those rockets used against you by people who want to see *their* face on maemo.org | 17:56 |
| lcuk | i was thinking more of sitting ON the rocket | 17:56 |
| lardman | lol, no chance, only 5 places remaining | 17:56 |
| lardman | I am still there aren't I, :) | 17:57 |
| frals|m | Hmm, nice feature. Built in browser on my n95 crashes when i select the password box on talk.m.o | 17:57 |
| lcuk | careful aim and you could land nicely on the WesterGasFabriek roof | 17:57 |
| lardman | lol | 17:57 |
| lardman | yeah, but I'm in Berlin in the days beforehand | 17:58 |
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| lcuk | bigger rocket pack! | 17:58 |
| lardman | I could probably find something in a museum ;) | 17:58 |
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| lcuk | two stage reusable rocket | 17:59 |
| Myrtti | nerf guns | 17:59 |
| lardman | potato cannon | 17:59 |
| ShadowJK | frals|m, try swithc off javascript... it works better that way for me | 18:00 |
| lcuk | are they the foam ones or emp ? | 18:00 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk's finger | 18:00 |
| lcuk | o_O | 18:00 |
| lcuk | keep my finger out of this discussion tyvm | 18:00 |
| lcuk | and anything else | 18:00 |
| frals|m | ShadowJK: i'll try that, thanks | 18:00 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: Wow. You're obviously still sore about that | 18:00 |
| lcuk | scarred for life. i will never stick my fingers anywhere where they might get bitted off again | 18:01 |
| *** penguinbait has joined #maemo | 18:01 | |
| lcuk | bitten | 18:01 |
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| penguinbait | this time around the revolution will not be televised... | 18:02 |
| frals|m | ShadowJK: thanks, worked fine now :) | 18:02 |
| ShadowJK | jabascript is evil :) | 18:02 |
| ShadowJK | the editbox doesnt scroll anymore though ;) | 18:03 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: is that Javascript's evil fat relative? | 18:04 |
| lardman | with a sarlac underneath | 18:04 |
| lcuk | haha @ jabascript | 18:04 |
| lardman | ah no wrong one | 18:04 |
| frals|m | The password box didn't star out my password either | 18:04 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: In that case, what relation is "javascript" to you? | 18:04 |
| lardman | indeed :) | 18:05 |
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| ShadowJK | the "normal" tmo page is heavy enough to be noticeable on core2, but the minimal theme has gigantic fonts making it unusable | 18:07 |
| ShadowJK | so i use normal without javascript | 18:07 |
| frals|m | Awesome, busdriver missed a stop where like half the bus were getting off | 18:09 |
| qwerty12 | A common occurrence here :) | 18:09 |
| lardman | quite lucky he actually made it past the stop rather than just not turning up# | 18:10 |
| frals|m | :D | 18:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hours away from freedom. | 18:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 18:15 |
| lardman | you leaving the US? | 18:15 |
| lardman | ;) | 18:15 |
| qwerty12 | He's leaving Florida | 18:16 |
| lardman | isn't it the start of term? | 18:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Leaving the council to new folks. :P | 18:16 |
| lardman | certainly is here | 18:16 |
| lardman | ah :) | 18:16 |
| lardman | have the scores been counted? | 18:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not closed yet. | 18:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should be tonight or tomorrow morning. | 18:16 |
| lardman | everyone scored round numbers of votes I presume | 18:17 |
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| Myrtti | I still can't believe I was eligble for vote :-D | 18:17 |
| lardman | we tried to have you banned :p | 18:17 |
| * lardman should probably go do something productive rather than insult everyone | 18:18 | |
| lardman | sorry all | 18:18 |
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| * Jaffa has just had his work eval. Feel free to insult me, since there was only one negative | 18:18 | |
| lardman | positive: attendance; negative: work while attending? | 18:19 |
| * lardman blames too much caffeine | 18:19 | |
| penguinbait | i blame the economy | 18:19 |
| * qwerty12 blames Jaffa for managing to suck, in both councils | 18:20 | |
| penguinbait | sometimes i still blame george bush | 18:20 |
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| lardman | seems fair :) | 18:20 |
| penguinbait | sometimes i blame the economy on george bush, ok often | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12: When you're in Amsterdam, you can have as much as you want | 18:21 |
| AndrewFBlack | anyone got a handy link to some freemantle homescreen screenshots? | 18:21 |
| lardman | Jaffa: he's not coming | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Noooooooooooooooooo | 18:21 |
| lcuk | fremantle* | 18:21 |
| lardman | Jaffa: I reckon kidnapping | 18:21 |
| lardman | I have a spare suitcase.... | 18:22 |
| lcuk | but you are flying by rocket | 18:22 |
| lardman | no, Easyjet, so even a lightweight qwerty12 in-suitcase would cost more than a real ticket | 18:22 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: I researched the tmo page | 18:24 |
| lcuk | god forbid he might want to go to the toilet too | 18:24 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: You will be surprised with what adds the main bulk | 18:25 |
| lardman | lcuk: yuck | 18:25 |
| lcuk | oh cripes speaking of suitcases | 18:25 |
| penguinbait | no its ycuk | 18:25 |
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| * Myrtti loves Ryanair | 18:25 | |
| lcuk | my main drag around one is knackered | 18:25 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: he'll be in lardman's suitcase. No-one'd notice ;-p | 18:25 |
| lcuk | good point | 18:26 |
| lardman | oi! | 18:26 |
| lardman | my wife will be with me, so I should be reasonably clean | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | Shoulda woulda coulda | 18:26 |
| lardman | plus I have a meeting the day before, so may even be in a suit | 18:26 |
| lcuk | lardman, how are you gonna fit qwerty and holly in the same suitcase | 18:26 |
| * Jaffa is getting a 6am flight from Birmingham. Not going to be in a suit. | 18:26 | |
| lardman | when I arrive at least | 18:26 |
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| lcuk | and wont she complain about the smell | 18:26 |
| lardman | yeah | 18:26 |
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| qwerty12 | lardman: You wear suits to your AA meetings? | 18:27 |
| penguinbait | its na | 18:27 |
| lardman | more to the point there won't be room for qwerty in any case what with the shoes & handbags ;) | 18:27 |
| lardman | qwerty12: nah, given those up | 18:27 |
| lcuk | only special ones to mark long term "on the wagon" - like 6 hours, 8 hours.. | 18:27 |
| lardman | back off the wagon | 18:27 |
| zakkm | hey lcuk :D | 18:27 |
| lcuk | hey zakkm \o | 18:28 |
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| lcuk | i hope you have voted | 18:28 |
| * lardman flies to Berlin, then Berlin to Luton, then Luton to Amsterdam, great :$ | 18:28 | |
| lcuk | since i havent seen you around | 18:28 |
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| lardman | mmm, crazy sours skittles | 18:32 |
| qwerty12 | mmm, crazy sour skets | 18:33 |
| lcuk | mmm bacon | 18:33 |
| lardman | sket?! I thought you were an East-End boy, not from the Caribbean | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | It's said by all 'round here... | 18:34 |
| lardman | I see, I've learned a new word | 18:34 |
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| penguinbait | skat? | 18:36 |
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| woglinde | hi | 18:37 |
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| penguinbait | hello | 18:38 |
| lardman | hi woglinde | 18:38 |
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| qwerty12 | Guten tag | 18:39 |
| woglinde | aeh qwerty do you now live in germany? | 18:40 |
| penguinbait | Qwerty is a man of the world | 18:40 |
| penguinbait | a man of mystery | 18:40 |
| qwerty12 | Nein | 18:40 |
| woglinde | hm amazing for his youth | 18:40 |
| penguinbait | he drinks Dos Equis | 18:41 |
| penguinbait | Qwerty12 IS the most interesting man in the world! | 18:41 |
| RST38h | German cops impound motorised beer crate | 18:41 |
| qwerty12 | penguinbait: You haven't met me IRL :p | 18:41 |
| lardman | er übt, weil er in meinem Koffer besuchen konnte | 18:42 |
| penguinbait | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2SSZA0CjdQ | 18:43 |
| woglinde | aeh??? | 18:43 |
| woglinde | the new joke is to speak german? | 18:43 |
| penguinbait | stay thirsty my friends | 18:43 |
| lardman | no | 18:43 |
| lardman | I've got a meeting in Berlin, qwerty has no passport for the summit | 18:44 |
| woglinde | lardman when? | 18:44 |
| woglinde | we could drink a beer | 18:44 |
| lardman | next week | 18:44 |
| woglinde | args got | 18:44 |
| woglinde | oh | 18:44 |
| woglinde | cool | 18:44 |
| lardman | sure, sounds good | 18:44 |
| woglinde | which day? | 18:45 |
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| qwerty12 | woglinde: take a crowbar with you. This is the first stage in lardman's ritual | 18:45 |
| lardman | there from Sun night till Thursday | 18:45 |
| lardman | qwerty12: I'll be on my best behaviour, my wife is with me | 18:45 |
| RST38h | (will it involve vacon?) | 18:45 |
| RST38h | bacon, shit | 18:45 |
| lardman | anyway, what happened to you after I left London...?! | 18:46 |
| woglinde | qwerty kuhfuss? | 18:46 |
| lardman | qwerty12: was it those nasty boys, lcuk and crashanddie_...? | 18:46 |
| lcuk | oi young un | 18:46 |
| * lcuk clips u round earlobe | 18:46 | |
| lardman | ow! | 18:46 |
| Jaffa | Take his bacon away! | 18:47 |
| lardman | nooo! | 18:47 |
| * lcuk gets out the juicer | 18:47 | |
| qwerty12 | woglinde: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Standard_Crowbar_Black.jpg (lardman is a homosexuell vergewaltiger) | 18:47 |
| woglinde | qwerty bah | 18:47 |
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| MaceN8x0 | hm | 18:48 |
| woglinde | qwerty yes one german name for it is kuhfuss | 18:48 |
| woglinde | after brecheisen | 18:48 |
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| lardman | vergewaltiger? | 18:48 |
| woglinde | enibreche | 18:48 |
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| woglinde | r | 18:48 |
| penguinbait | he is going to seduce you with his wife, and when your not looking BAM | 18:48 |
| MaceN8x0 | when is the olympic selection? | 18:48 |
| penguinbait | right up the arse | 18:48 |
| woglinde | args einbrecher he probably mean | 18:48 |
| lardman | ah | 18:48 |
| lardman | well no on all counts | 18:48 |
| woglinde | vergewaltiger is raping | 18:48 |
| lcuk | crashanddie_ im busy on that thursday night i believe | 18:49 |
| lardman | hmm, never learned that word | 18:49 |
| woglinde | maybee you hit first and then rape | 18:49 |
| qwerty12 | woglinde: yes, vergewaltiger is what I meant :p | 18:49 |
| woglinde | but thats I am nobody whises | 18:49 |
| lardman | oi, enough with the character assassination! | 18:49 |
| woglinde | args wishes | 18:49 |
| * RST38h carefully checks tmo new threads | 18:49 | |
| RST38h | All quiet now | 18:50 |
| frals | im kinda overwhelmed here on the MMS "project"; brainstorm discussion, talkthread and the wikipage where lcuk was kind enough to post the irclog, where should i summarize the irclog? all over? the wiki? | 18:50 |
| Robot101 | MMS project? | 18:50 |
| lcuk | the wiki | 18:50 |
| woglinde | damn I should never show my son how to use a browser | 18:50 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Oh, yes - good point. | 18:50 |
| lcuk | discussion page | 18:50 |
| woglinde | args have showed | 18:50 |
| lcuk | or on the page itself | 18:50 |
| qwerty12 | woglinde: make sure you block www.lardmansgayconquests.co.ck | 18:51 |
| woglinde | now he looks roary and little red traktor on youtube | 18:51 |
| LoCusF | how can I specify alternate dependency in debian/control? | 18:52 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: would you mind killing qwerty12 next time you see him? | 18:52 |
| lcuk | no | 18:52 |
| LoCusF | like (libhildon1|hildon-libs0), (libhildon1-dev|hildon-libs-dev) wont work | 18:52 |
| lcuk | qwerty is op now | 18:52 |
| woglinde | lardman I will do | 18:52 |
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| woglinde | LoCusF hm why? | 18:52 |
| woglinde | LoCusF it should | 18:52 |
| lardman | woglinde: good lad | 18:52 |
| woglinde | maybe the dpkg is to old in maemo | 18:52 |
| woglinde | lardman I will be in cambridge nov. 6,7,8 | 18:53 |
| lcuk | frals, all the links i spammed pointed into the wiki and its the best editable place without it become a 50 page marathon | 18:53 |
| LoCusF | woglinde: on gregale so thats basically ancient history :) | 18:53 |
| woglinde | LoCusF uahaha thats stoneage | 18:53 |
| lcuk | thanks for havin a go btw :) | 18:54 |
| Myrtti | *snerk* | 18:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | ugh | 18:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | waiting to see if we get the olympics | 18:54 |
| frals | lcuk: yeah, true, ill try to summarize it into a text later tonight, realised i got an assignment for a uni course i have to finish first :p | 18:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 18:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | it is a real nail biter | 18:54 |
| lardman | woglinde: Nov? Oct next month | 18:55 |
| woglinde | lardman nov | 18:55 |
| woglinde | visiting oedem | 18:55 |
| lardman | Ah, I live in Bath, other side of the country | 18:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | isn't it funny the jamacan runner who broke the record | 18:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | is named bolt? | 18:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | =) | 18:56 |
| woglinde | lardman ah I thought you were near london | 18:56 |
| lardman | nah, that's qwerty12 | 18:56 |
| woglinde | ah okay | 18:56 |
| * RST38h laughs at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32135 | 18:56 | |
| woglinde | so I kill him | 18:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | he was going so fast that he broke stride before the finish line to talk shit | 18:56 |
| lardman | and take his place? | 18:56 |
| lardman | no thanks! | 18:56 |
| woglinde | no | 18:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | and still broke the record | 18:56 |
| woglinde | its nothing abort sith's | 18:57 |
| qwerty12 | woglinde: don't worry, lardman will find...ways..to thank you | 18:57 |
| lardman | lol | 18:57 |
| lardman | yeah beer & bacon | 18:57 |
| dneary | Anyone here sharpish in maths? | 18:57 |
| lardman | :p | 18:57 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: I was thinking more like a space on your website | 18:57 |
| lardman | I can just about add up | 18:57 |
| woglinde | dneary ask | 18:57 |
| dneary | I have a combinatorics problem I can't figure out | 18:57 |
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| lardman | fire away | 18:58 |
| LoCusF | gaah, backwards compatibility is a bitch | 18:58 |
| dneary | I have N containers, with x red beads and y blue beads, x + y < N | 18:58 |
| woglinde | hihi | 18:58 |
| woglinde | lpsolve | 18:58 |
| woglinde | see th examples | 18:58 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Seen the username of the person starting the topic? | 18:58 |
| dneary | I distribute the red beads randomly in the containers (no more than one per container) | 18:58 |
| dneary | and do the same with the blue beads | 18:59 |
| dneary | What's the probability that at least one container will contain both a red & blue bead? | 18:59 |
| lardman | I'd say x.y/N^2 | 18:59 |
| woglinde | args | 18:59 |
| woglinde | bob the builder | 18:59 |
| dneary | So I think that's wrong :) | 19:00 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Heh. | 19:00 |
| dneary | Let's say x = y = N/2 | 19:00 |
| penguinbait | not sure but it will happen one day early | 19:00 |
| dneary | That would give a probability of 1/4 | 19:00 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Imagine what will happen after N900 is released... | 19:00 |
| dneary | when clearly the probability should be almost 1 | 19:00 |
| lardman | yeah | 19:00 |
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| dneary | I'm thinking, let's place the blue beads | 19:01 |
| RST38h | qwerty: It is going to be almost as epic as AOL letting its users post to USENET | 19:01 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: "OMG I CANT RUN SYMBIAN DIS SUCKS" "IZ DERE PS3 EMULATOR KTHXBYE" | 19:01 |
| penguinbait | or is it one day late? | 19:01 |
| dneary | We have N total containers, and N-x empty containers | 19:01 |
| lardman | yep | 19:01 |
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| dneary | There are (N-x)Cy ways to distribute the blue beads with no conflict | 19:01 |
| dneary | and NCy ways to distribute the beads in all | 19:02 |
| dneary | So the probability of distributing them with no conflicts is the number of good ways / total number | 19:02 |
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| dneary | And then 1 - gives the prob of distributing them with at least 1 conflict | 19:03 |
| dneary | The problem is that the result isn't symmetrical in x and y, when logically it must be | 19:03 |
| woglinde | dneary cant you use the counter prop? | 19:03 |
| woglinde | args prob | 19:03 |
| dneary | We end up with (N-y)!(N-x-y)!/N!(N-x)! | 19:04 |
| dneary | So I'm thinking that I have to include the number of ways I can place the x stones too | 19:04 |
| dneary | NCx = N!/(N-x)! | 19:05 |
| dneary | but I can't figure it out | 19:05 |
| lardman | too late in the evening, and I never did probability work for my A-levels | 19:06 |
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| lardman | but I'll have a think about it | 19:06 |
| LoCusF | if anyone wants to try the compcache modules on nokia 770, see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=335342&postcount=16 | 19:06 |
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| pupnik | what is that LoCusF ? | 19:11 |
| pupnik | nice job with recordmydesktop btw! | 19:11 |
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| RST38h | How do I delete a solution from the Brainstorm? | 19:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | 770? | 19:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | wow | 19:16 |
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| Mousey | wow | 19:17 |
| Mousey | no maemo 5 for n8x0?! | 19:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | well | 19:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | looks like the touchbooks are supposed to go out this week | 19:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | word | 19:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | wednesday they will charge and ship right after | 19:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | hope i get mine | 19:17 |
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| derf | dneary: It's 1 - (N-x)!*(N-y)!/((N-x-y)!*N!) | 19:26 |
| dneary | derf: Thanks! How'd you work it out? | 19:26 |
| derf | It doesn't matter which x get the red beads. So put them all at the front. | 19:27 |
| derf | Now, there's a (1-(y/n)) chance that the first container doesn't get a blue bead. | 19:28 |
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| derf | And knowing that, then there's a (1-(y/(n-1)) the second container doesn't get a blue bead. | 19:28 |
| derf | *chance | 19:28 |
| derf | Etc. | 19:29 |
| dneary | ok | 19:30 |
| derf | So, that's just a finite product. | 19:30 |
| derf | And you throw some algebra at it. | 19:30 |
| Myrtti | sounds like someone is doing Professor Layton | 19:30 |
| lardman | thank God, I can stop looking at combinatorics now | 19:31 |
| woglinde | hehe | 19:31 |
| woglinde | me too | 19:31 |
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| dneary | derf: Your formula doesn't quite work out if we have x = y = n/2 | 19:31 |
| dneary | derf: Same as lardmans | 19:31 |
| dneary | Try n=8, x = y = 4 | 19:31 |
| lardman | mine is only the chance that a single bin has both in it | 19:31 |
| dneary | Logically, there are only a few ways we can distribute the beads so that there are no clashes | 19:32 |
| dneary | We can count them... 8C4 ways | 19:32 |
| dneary | And there are 8C4x8C4 total ways to distribute | 19:32 |
| dneary | So the probability should work out at 1/8C4 | 19:33 |
| dneary | And, indeed, it does | 19:33 |
| dneary | (or rather, 1 - 1/8C4) | 19:33 |
| dneary | So never mind what I said then :) | 19:33 |
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| derf | Anyway, if you want to know the particular algebra I found easy (which you may not)... | 19:34 |
| derf | If you rewrite the product as (-n+y)/(-n) * (-n+y+1)/(-n+1) * (-n+y+2)/(-n+2), etc. | 19:35 |
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| lardman | too much maths for this time of the evening ;) | 19:35 |
| lardman | cu all later | 19:35 |
| derf | You get (-n+y)_x/(-n)_x, where (a)_n is the Pochhammer symbol. | 19:35 |
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| woglinde | bye lardman | 19:35 |
| derf | The insides are negative, which is bad, so you factor them out to get (n-y-x+1)_x/(n-x+1)_x, which is just the same terms in the other order. | 19:36 |
| derf | And then you use the fact that (a)_n = (a+n-1)!/(a-1)! | 19:37 |
| derf | Anyway, lunctime. Later. | 19:37 |
| woglinde | bye derf | 19:37 |
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| dneary | Thanks derf | 19:42 |
| _berto_ | javascript ... http://imgur.com/RzRcw.jpg | 19:42 |
| dneary | Follow-up question: what is the expected number of cups containing both blue & red beads? | 19:43 |
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| tush726 | when i try to run the sample gtk application using xephyr by ubuntu system gives an error http://pastebin.com/d41357af3 | 19:44 |
| aSIMULAter | is timsamoff in here? | 19:45 |
| aSIMULAter | that guy RULES he plays frisbee golf | 19:45 |
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| frals | lol | 19:46 |
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| tush726 | when i try to run the sample gtk application using xephyr by ubuntu system gives an error http://pastebin.com/d41357af3 | 19:48 |
| tush726 | can anyone help me out ? | 19:48 |
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| tush726 | I am running ubuntu 9.04 | 19:56 |
| woglinde | [config/dbus] couldn't take over org.x.config: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied (Connection ":1.76" is not allowed to own the service "org.x.config.display2" due to security policies in the configuration file) | 19:57 |
| woglinde | run google to find a solution | 19:57 |
| AStorm | solution is: run as root. | 19:58 |
| AStorm | ;p | 19:58 |
| woglinde | hehe | 19:58 |
| AStorm | or get X which can work as user (w/o SUID root) | 19:58 |
| woglinde | until we have xserver 2.0 | 19:58 |
| AStorm | with KMS, that is possible | 19:58 |
| AStorm | nah, why. | 19:58 |
| AStorm | even 1.6 will do | 19:58 |
| woglinde | astorm kernel patches should be in | 19:58 |
| AStorm | but you need a driver that doesn't need kernel IOCTLs | 19:59 |
| AStorm | uh, MMIO and RAWIO | 19:59 |
| woglinde | but X isnt complete if I remeber correctly | 19:59 |
| AStorm | ? | 19:59 |
| AStorm | no. X supports running as user | 19:59 |
| AStorm | as long as the driver does | 19:59 |
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| AStorm | the driver has to signalize that it doesn't need RAWIO or protected MMIO | 20:00 |
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| lardman | re | 20:01 |
| woglinde | re lardman | 20:01 |
| AStorm | and that it does probing itself (then do none) | 20:01 |
| lardman | has all that maths gone yet? ;) | 20:01 |
| AStorm | or that it's KMS, then X does no probing at all | 20:01 |
| AStorm | but I couldn't launch my Radeon in user KMS yet. | 20:01 |
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| tush726 | thanks | 20:06 |
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| penguinbait | so the current status for maemo sdk is beta2 unstable is that accurate? | 20:12 |
| penguinbait | maemo 5 sdk I should have said | 20:12 |
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| Stskeeps | penguinbait: final sdk not out yet | 20:15 |
| penguinbait | is it just bug fixes left? | 20:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 20:17 |
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| lardman | oh why do you segfault gtk_tree_selection_select_iter(select,&iter); ? | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | penguinbait: no clue | 20:20 |
| keesj | The proverbe goes: Bugzilla is active, release imminent | 20:20 |
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| kirma | fijal: maybe a chance of expanding the set of python-implementable/non-battery-hungry apps on ARM linux gadgets? at least if it's not horribly memory-hungry... | 20:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | blah | 20:22 |
| kirma | and anyway, considering what kind of niches Power and SPARC architectures are, ARM is much more widespread among "home hackers" ... | 20:23 |
| kirma | arch, wrong channel. | 20:23 |
| kirma | argh even | 20:23 |
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| lardman | I hate treeviews | 20:29 |
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| pupnik | :/ | 20:29 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, im there a couple of hours after | 20:32 |
| lcuk | i doubt you fancy hanging around do you | 20:32 |
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| VDVsx | lcuk, what's your ETA ? | 20:37 |
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| lcuk | wed 16.05 | 20:38 |
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| lcuk | lardman, treeviews are a necessary evil | 20:48 |
| lcuk | its like having baddies in movies | 20:48 |
| lardman | they don't play fair though | 20:48 |
| lcuk | never do | 20:49 |
| lardman | I want to select the first element in the view | 20:49 |
| lardman | in code | 20:49 |
| lcuk | and whats the problem | 20:49 |
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| lardman | and all I get is segfault-tasticness | 20:49 |
| lcuk | ouchy | 20:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | What you need for dealing with trees is clear! | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | A lumberjack! | 20:49 |
| lardman | indeed | 20:50 |
| lardman | flat text everywhere | 20:50 |
| lardman | :) | 20:50 |
| Jaffa | Trains != fun. | 20:50 |
| lardman | the next wonder if trying to work out why my db won't close cleanly | 20:50 |
| fiferboy | lardman: You are using GtkTreeView in c? | 20:50 |
| * lcuk missed his train to london | 20:50 | |
| lardman | Jaffa: I meant to ask you, what was that SSID for 1st class wifi access? | 20:51 |
| lardman | fiferboy: yeah | 20:51 |
| fiferboy | Do you have a pastebin of the code for selecting? | 20:51 |
| lardman | sure, hang on a tick | 20:51 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: 'tmobile'. Same as standard. You have to find channel 11 AP MAC and force onnection to it. | 20:52 |
| Jaffa | MAC changes on each train, tho' | 20:52 |
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| lardman | http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5252ba90 | 20:52 |
| lardman | Jaffa: cool, thanks | 20:53 |
| lcuk | if(iter){...} | 20:53 |
| lcuk | as well | 20:53 |
| lardman | that shouldn't be needed, plus gcc complains about comparing a struct to an int | 20:53 |
| lardman | well that's my understanding of the reason the fn returns a gboolean anyway | 20:54 |
| * lcuk sees in other examples | 20:54 | |
| lcuk | i hate using things that might be null :'( | 20:54 |
| Jaffa | lardman: you need to sit on the bank of tables at the end of coach E close to 1st class (seats 001-008) on a Virgin Pendolino | 20:55 |
| lardman | well that's presumably the problem, just not sure why it's so | 20:55 |
| lcuk | how are you initializaing appdata->lists_store | 20:55 |
| lardman | Jaffa: lol, ok, you've got it all sussed | 20:55 |
| lcuk | does it crash on the first call | 20:55 |
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| lardman | lcuk: yep | 20:56 |
| lcuk | then work backwards deffo - how is appdata->lists_store set | 20:56 |
| lardman | I see "before", not after | 20:56 |
| lardman | nah that's fine | 20:56 |
| * Jaffa ponders pygtk coding on device, rather than sleep | 20:56 | |
| lardman | Jaffa: where are you? | 20:56 |
| fiferboy | lardman: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m2d089d42 | 20:57 |
| Jaffa | sleep, I think. Need to stay awakw for FlashForward on five tonight (sounds interesting) | 20:57 |
| fiferboy | I'm not sure what your _TREE_VIEW_NAME_ is, though... | 20:57 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Train | 20:57 |
| frals | its 1956 here and im pondering if i should sleep now, my body seems to think its a good idea :( | 20:57 |
| lcuk | o_O time traveller! | 20:57 |
| fiferboy | It is 2009 here... | 20:58 |
| lcuk | thats a lot of lag | 20:58 |
| lardman | fiferboy: I tried that before, same effect though | 20:58 |
| lardman | will have another go though | 20:58 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Is it just not selecting, or is it crashing? | 20:58 |
| lardman | Jaffa: yeah looks like it might be good that | 20:58 |
| lardman | segfault | 20:58 |
| fiferboy | If that doesn't work, I'll go back to some of my code | 20:59 |
| lardman | looks like gtk_tree_model_get_iter_first() is returning TRUE but not setting iter (I presume that might cause a segfault) | 20:59 |
| fiferboy | I am pretty sure I have done that before | 20:59 |
| lardman | ok, let me have a go | 20:59 |
| fiferboy | GtkTreeIter iter | 20:59 |
| fiferboy | right? Not *iter | 20:59 |
| fiferboy | When you are declaring | 20:59 |
| lardman | yep | 21:00 |
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| lardman | hmm, ok better | 21:02 |
| lardman | but failed for some reason | 21:02 |
| fiferboy | No segfualt, but no selection? | 21:02 |
| lardman | didn't bring the program down mind you, so going the right way | 21:02 |
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| lardman | ah, the first arg should be the selection object? | 21:02 |
| fiferboy | Yes | 21:03 |
| fiferboy | GtkTreeSelection | 21:03 |
| lardman | missed that bit of typing in my eagerness | 21:03 |
| lardman | nope, segfault again | 21:04 |
| lardman | http://maemo.pastebin.com/m7cfb8494 | 21:04 |
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| fiferboy | It is segfaulting between "before" and "after"? | 21:05 |
| lardman | seems so | 21:06 |
| LoCusF | pupnik: thanks :) | 21:06 |
| fiferboy | Maybe in your on_list_view_changed function? | 21:06 |
| lardman | supper beckons, bbiab | 21:06 |
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| lcuk | damn @ tmo borkened | 21:12 |
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| penguinbait | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32164 | 21:27 |
| * lcuk smiles | 21:29 | |
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| * Myrtti is trying to write a blog entry, feeling too tired | 21:29 | |
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| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU | 21:32 |
| penguinbait | what did qwerty do? | 21:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Took yer time | 21:32 |
| lcuk | see the comment he left on that thread lol | 21:33 |
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| penguinbait | ignore the haters | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk sux | 21:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | cox | 21:35 |
| Myrtti | kids | 21:35 |
| * Myrtti shakes head | 21:35 | |
| * Stskeeps wonders who gets into council | 21:35 | |
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| penguinbait | Qwerty anyone ever tell you, you look like Mowgli from the jungle book cartoon... | 21:36 |
| luke-jr | qwerty12_N810: cox sucks | 21:36 |
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| penguinbait | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ogQ0uge06o | 21:36 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: No one. All the candidates have been replaced by yft-tall alien lizards. | 21:37 |
| Jaffa | s/yft/6ft/ | 21:37 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: Stskeeps: No one. All the candidates have been replaced by 6ft-tall alien lizards. | 21:37 |
| penguinbait | its a coup | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | as long as they're Mer-friendly i'm fine :P | 21:37 |
| Jaffa | No one will be able to tell. | 21:37 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: If they're not, we'll revolt | 21:37 |
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| Stskeeps | someone has to pay the bills ;p | 21:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | That "someone" would be you ;P | 21:38 |
| * SpeedEvil for one welcomes our new yft overlords. | 21:39 | |
| * Jaffa blames the fn key | 21:39 | |
| * qwerty12_N810 blames Jaffa | 21:40 | |
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| * fiferboy therefore, qwerty12_N810 blames the fn key. QED | 21:41 | |
| fiferboy | Bah | 21:41 |
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| penguinbait | hey Qwerty Texrat slapped you with a large trout! | 21:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lol | 21:44 |
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| konttori__ | By the way, for any n900 users, wiicontrol is now in extras-devel - in case you want to test the snes emulator. | 21:47 |
| keesj | konttori__: how's quake going? | 21:48 |
| konttori__ | I forgot to check for the es1.1 today | 21:48 |
| konttori__ | no time. | 21:48 |
| * javispedro thinks about tv out and wiicontrol....... *drool* | 21:49 | |
| penguinbait | ouch! | 21:49 |
| * SpeedEvil watches javispedro mentally accidentally smashing his TV with an out-of-control wii control. | 21:50 | |
| javispedro | fortunately, I still don't have an n900 to smash ;) | 21:50 |
| penguinbait | unfortunately, I still don't have an n900 to smash ;) | 21:51 |
| javispedro | touché | 21:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Broadcast TV would be cool. | 21:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Funnily enough, I know I'm gonna get more enjoyment out of the N900 with my Wii controller than I currently get with the Wii itself | 21:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Though in practice, you'd really need to be able to do sigital TV. | 21:51 |
| SpeedEvil | di | 21:51 |
| SpeedEvil | DAB transmitter would also be cool. | 21:52 |
| * javispedro sighs | 21:52 | |
| javispedro | why osso-unlocked-blabla depends on skype-installer? | 21:52 |
| * javispedro decides to leave skype alone | 21:53 | |
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| javispedro | tmo has lost all reasoning | 21:56 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32164 | 21:56 |
| javispedro | the sarcasm detectors are getting rusty I guess. | 21:57 |
| penguinbait | qwerty, your upsetting people ;) | 21:58 |
| range | javispedro: Na, they are just rotating. | 21:58 |
| lardman | re | 21:59 |
| penguinbait | they have all got tablet envy | 21:59 |
| lardman | fiferboy: if I comment out the selection code then it doesn't segfault | 21:59 |
| fiferboy | What happens when you manually change the selection through the GUI? | 22:00 |
| lardman | so I was presuming it happens in there somewhere | 22:00 |
| lardman | yeah works fine then | 22:00 |
| lardman | on_list_view_changed is called, etc | 22:00 |
| crashanddie | lardman, what time you arriving on thursday? | 22:00 |
| lardman | perhaps my code is just weird, I have a dialog that won't close too | 22:01 |
| lardman | crashanddie: let me check | 22:01 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Okay. Try passing "select" (the GtkTreeSelection you create earlier on) to the function | 22:01 |
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| konttori__ | yeah, tvout really is going to be so nice with drnoksnes. | 22:02 |
| lardman | crashanddie: 21.05 | 22:02 |
| penguinbait | put that thing away Qwerty | 22:02 |
| konttori__ | and wiicontrol. We just need to get also the 2nd controller up and running. | 22:02 |
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| lardman | fiferboy: ok | 22:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | penguinbait: :p | 22:02 |
| javispedro | konttori__: not on this release, but will add to TODO (not hard) | 22:03 |
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| lardman | crashanddie: where are you staying? | 22:03 |
| konttori__ | javispedro: when do you upload the scaling version? I would like to use that when I make example video of wiicontrol+tvout+snes | 22:03 |
| konttori__ | javispedro: also wiicontrol needs to add the 2nd controller support. | 22:03 |
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| javispedro | that video is going to be pretty cool | 22:04 |
| lardman | fiferboy: segfault still | 22:04 |
| javispedro | konttori__: hopefully, today (i decided to grab rst's scaler yesterday and thus the delay) | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | lardman: I'll try to remember to look up how I did it tonight | 22:04 |
| lardman | fiferboy: let me check that the view is for the correct data | 22:04 |
| konttori__ | ah, sounds excellent! | 22:04 |
| lardman | fiferboy: cool, would be interested to hear anything you have. Thanks for your help :) | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | lardman: No problem. I struggled through tree views, tree models, selection models, sort models, list stores and all that a while ago | 22:05 |
| lardman | glad I'm not alone! :) | 22:06 |
| fiferboy | Did you find the tree view tutorial online? It is a bit out of date, but it helped immensely | 22:06 |
| * qwerty12_N810 makes a mental note to only boo lcuk on IRC | 22:06 | |
| lardman | yeah, used that for the rest of the code, but this bit doesn't seem to want to play ball | 22:07 |
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| fiferboy | Ah | 22:07 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810: as GAN often says, we just need more emoticons per post | 22:07 |
| lardman | though didn't come specifically from the tut in this case | 22:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Indeed :) | 22:08 |
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| * fiferboy waits for countdown-home to pass through the promoter before starting the shameless self-promotion | 22:09 | |
| lardman | anyone know if I can see the contents of an sqlite prepared statement (to try and work out why I can't close my db)? | 22:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy: This the one with the final pimped up font & colour selector? | 22:10 |
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| fiferboy | qwerty12_N810: It has all the latest bells and whistles, although no simple colour selector interface yet | 22:11 |
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| fiferboy | It has the RGB sliders, though | 22:11 |
| Khertan | Hi ! | 22:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy: Awesome :) | 22:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Evening, Khertan | 22:11 |
| * javispedro notices garage git is still broken | 22:11 | |
| lardman | hey Khertan | 22:11 |
| fiferboy | And as a nice little easter egg, you can put the colour name (orange) into the #ff00ff box and have it appear as though by magic! | 22:11 |
| Khertan | Evening qwerty12_N810 | 22:11 |
| Khertan | hey lardman | 22:11 |
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| Khertan | Is there know problem with moving in garage from svn to git ? | 22:13 |
| lardman | no idea | 22:13 |
| javispedro | Khertan: garage git is broken for me | 22:13 |
| Khertan | as i ve tryed with pygtkeditor ... or a clean project msaber ... | 22:13 |
| Khertan | and the two fails | 22:13 |
| lardman | hmm, why don't these docs say what the return value means I wonder....? http://www.sqlite.org/c3ref/close.html | 22:13 |
| javispedro | I've not been able to push for nearly a week | 22:13 |
| Khertan | and now ... i've only the svn vin admin | 22:14 |
| lardman | svn still works I can add | 22:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | That's what she said | 22:14 |
| Khertan | ok ... so i do the migration the wrong day :) | 22:14 |
| * javispedro participates in -developers thread about it | 22:14 | |
| lardman | http://www.sqlite.org/quickstart.html no error checking | 22:16 |
| AndrewFBlack | konttori__, Ping! | 22:16 |
| konttori__ | pong | 22:16 |
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| AndrewFBlack | where is icon for the program switcher kept? I don't see a place in diablo theme maker to change it? | 22:17 |
| konttori__ | it's in the main template | 22:17 |
| konttori__ | almost at the very right end of template | 22:18 |
| AndrewFBlack | didn't see it in the template | 22:18 |
| AndrewFBlack | ok | 22:18 |
| konttori__ | you mean fremantle, right? | 22:18 |
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| AndrewFBlack | konttori__, nope Diablo | 22:18 |
| konttori__ | if diablo, then it's in a separate file. | 22:18 |
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| AndrewFBlack | its not the the template didn't know if I could change the file by hand if you knew the location of the file | 22:18 |
| konttori__ | there is icons template as a separate file. it's there | 22:18 |
| konttori__ | I mean, there is a separate icon template file | 22:19 |
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| crashanddie | lardman, what time you arriving on thursday? | 22:20 |
| lardman | 21.05 | 22:20 |
| lardman | where you staying? | 22:20 |
| crashanddie | err, lemme check | 22:20 |
| lardman | :) | 22:20 |
| AndrewFBlack | konttori__, only icons in template is menu, web, and contacts I want to change the little icon on bottom left of diablo screen | 22:20 |
| crashanddie | lardman, Golden Tulip & Tulip | 22:20 |
| lardman | hmm | 22:21 |
| crashanddie | lardman, about 5 minute walk from the venue | 22:21 |
| lardman | where's that in relation to the main hotel? | 22:21 |
| lardman | oh ok | 22:21 |
| crashanddie | well, I hope so, actually | 22:21 |
| lardman | so you going to head into town that evening? | 22:21 |
| crashanddie | dunno | 22:21 |
| lardman | We'll head for the main hotel and check in/drop stuff off | 22:21 |
| lardman | then see what happens I guess | 22:22 |
| lardman | was supposed to be ~30min walk/10min on bus iirc | 22:22 |
| lardman | ? | 22:22 |
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| crashanddie | lardman, you staying at the ibis center hotel? | 22:23 |
| lardman | yep | 22:23 |
| konttori__ | AndrewFBlack: oh, sorry, I have probably forgotten it. sorry | 22:24 |
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| AndrewFBlack | any chance on gettingit add to the diablo version of theme maker? | 22:24 |
| AndrewFBlack | I hope you wont let that version die | 22:24 |
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| AndrewFBlack | almost done with a diablo version of your fremantle theme and I need to change that to match | 22:25 |
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| crashanddie | lardman, we're 5 minutes apart taxi-wise | 22:25 |
| lardman | cool | 22:25 |
| crashanddie | lardman, http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Spaarndammerdijk+302,+1013+ZX+Amsterdam,+Netherlands+(Golden+Tulip+Amsterdam+Fashion)&daddr=Stationsplein+49,+1012+AB+Amsterdam,+Netherlands+(Hotel+ibis+Amsterdam+Centre)&hl=en&geocode=FclzHwMdu0pKACHUtZWXGro_BQ%3BCf9-h9md7QMEFXc_HwMdVrhKACH02nzDgphOug&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=52.234698,4.697409&sspn=0.363332,1.234589&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=14 | 22:25 |
| konttori__ | umm... umm.... if you can add it to the icon template and tell me the name of the icon to extract and the coordinates to take (also exact size), then I'll add it | 22:25 |
| konttori__ | I don't have a device to test it with atm | 22:25 |
| lardman | crashanddie: nice | 22:26 |
| crashanddie | lardman, wanna cab up? | 22:26 |
| lardman | crashanddie: I don't know Amsterdam, but I guess you'll be better off coming into the middle, esp as there should be more people at our hotel | 22:26 |
| crashanddie | lardman, I'll be a bit later than you guys | 22:26 |
| lardman | from the airport you mean? | 22:27 |
| crashanddie | aye | 22:27 |
| AndrewFBlack | konttori__, I'll let you know I'll have to dig through the default icons and find it | 22:27 |
| lardman | I thought it was only like 10min on the train anyway? | 22:27 |
| crashanddie | lardman, no ida | 22:27 |
| crashanddie | idea | 22:27 |
| crashanddie | i never train from airports, professional deformation I guess | 22:27 |
| konttori__ | AndrewFBlack: thanks | 22:27 |
| konttori__ | you know, you can just edit the icon-template.txt file which is in the layouts/XXX.zip file. | 22:28 |
| lardman | tbh, if it's close, will probably head to the hotel and drop the bags & change out of suit | 22:28 |
| crashanddie | yup | 22:28 |
| AndrewFBlack | anyone want to tackle a somewhat easy project for me. I need to menu plugins that have clear icons and do nothing when clicked. | 22:29 |
| AndrewFBlack | konttori__, ok thanks | 22:29 |
| crashanddie | lardman, so we'll get to meet the lady? | 22:29 |
| lardman | of course | 22:29 |
| crashanddie | lardman, pure hotty? | 22:29 |
| crashanddie | :D | 22:29 |
| lardman | indeed :) | 22:29 |
| lardman | not as lardy as me | 22:29 |
| lardman | :D | 22:29 |
| crashanddie | you're hardly lardy | 22:30 |
| lardman | sorry Holly, didn't mean it! | 22:30 |
| crashanddie | you're just a heroin junkie who takes shots during dinner | 22:30 |
| lardman | nah it all comes from 1st year at uni - I could only cook Eggs & bacon | 22:30 |
| lardman | using lard of course | 22:30 |
| crashanddie | isn't bacon lard? | 22:30 |
| lardman | lard is fat | 22:31 |
| crashanddie | i know there's a difference in test | 22:31 |
| crashanddie | and bacon isn't fat? | 22:31 |
| SpeedEvil | no. | 22:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | Bacon has fat on. | 22:31 |
| lardman | lard is pig fat, bacon is pig muscle + bit of fat | 22:31 |
| lardman | or lots if you go streaky, mmmm, making me hungry | 22:32 |
| crashanddie | we don't have the same definition of lard | 22:32 |
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| lardman | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lard | 22:32 |
| crashanddie | lardman, waiting for dinner to get delivered | 22:32 |
| lardman | what are you having? | 22:32 |
| lardman | pizza? | 22:32 |
| crashanddie | aaah | 22:32 |
| crashanddie | there you go | 22:32 |
| LiraNuna | <lardman> lard is pig fat, bacon is pig muscle + bit of fat // I'm with crashanddie on this one | 22:33 |
| crashanddie | my french side betrayed my sorry ass | 22:33 |
| crashanddie | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lardons | 22:33 |
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| crashanddie | first line: Not to be confused with lard. | 22:33 |
| lardman | ah yes, lardons are good though | 22:33 |
| LiraNuna | hehe | 22:33 |
| lardman | :) | 22:33 |
| LiraNuna | oh wait, I was thinking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larb | 22:34 |
| crashanddie | but lardons is basically just bacon, just prepared slightly differently | 22:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: listen to your Dutch side next time, instead | 22:34 |
| lardman | yeah, pre-chopped | 22:34 |
| lardman | LiraNuna: sounds tasty | 22:34 |
| LiraNuna | lardman, Thai food is win | 22:34 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, I'm trying to, but that one just keeps singing korn's version of creep but does a s/creep/weed/g | 22:34 |
| lardman | not sure about this bit though! "which made of minced raw beef mixed with blood, bile and spices" | 22:35 |
| RST38h | Hmm...Nokia opened an official LJ community | 22:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: heh | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, Tim finally gets a taste. | 22:35 |
| crashanddie | bile is the word that's pretty wrong | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bitter, eh? ;) | 22:35 |
| lardman | green too | 22:35 |
| lardman | hey GeneralAntilles | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hi, lardman. | 22:36 |
| lardman | when do the shackles finally get released then? | 22:36 |
| lardman | when's the official announcement? | 22:36 |
| crashanddie | http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/pages/boudinvert | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tonight or tomorrow | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whenever Dave runs the numbers. | 22:36 |
| crashanddie | best sausage ever | 22:37 |
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| crashanddie | hey GeneralAntilles | 22:37 |
| crashanddie | whatup? | 22:37 |
| lardman | mmm, sounds nice | 22:37 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, when are you landing you covert wimp? | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, actually, shit, I deleted that email didn't I. | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hum, that's a problem. | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | ... | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | there's paranoia for ya mate | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tried to set up a mail rule to remove notification messages more than 1 day old. | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | P | 22:38 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: that's why you should use my gitbackup script! | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | gitbackup for email? | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Problem is, Mail.app defaults to ANY instead of ALL for matching. | 22:39 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: yeah, it works very nice :D | 22:39 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Use the power of the Council, while you still have it, to set the date to one of your choosing :p | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it deleted all of the mail in my inbox more than 1 day old. :\ | 22:39 |
| * crashanddie facepalms | 22:39 | |
| lardman | We have 2 hours in Luton from touchdown to take off, I do hope Easyjet manages to run on time | 22:39 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, got confirmation number somewhere? Did you print anything? | 22:39 |
| RST38h | Sounds suspiciously like Valujet | 22:39 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: Easyjet? Time? | 22:39 |
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| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, you've never flown, stfu | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I think I managed to salvage most of the stuff, but I'm not sure how to process it back into my mail db. | 22:40 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: unless I'm offline, my desktop PC always has a recent (within 1 minute) backup of my entire maildir | 22:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles Spotlights. | 22:40 | |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: yeah, who knows | 22:40 |
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| luke-jr | crashanddie: including history, in case of software error deleting stuff | 22:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: silence, bitch. Get back to humping your collection of dolls | 22:40 |
| LiraNuna | whoa there | 22:41 |
| crashanddie | lardman, if you wanted to know what happened to Q, we didn't beat the shit out of the kid when we saw him, so know mister powerful thinks he can get away with murder | 22:41 |
| penguinbait | heh | 22:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Getting in at 7:05 Thursday morning. | 22:41 |
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| crashanddie | s/so know/so now/ | 22:41 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: lardman, if you wanted to know what happened to Q, we didn't beat the shit out of the kid when we saw him, so now mister powerful thinks he can get away with murder | 22:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I may very well collapse of exhaustion before the weekend is over. | 22:41 |
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| penguinbait | swine flu? | 22:41 |
| lardman | crashanddie: yeah, too much chat-back now, should have given him a hiding when we saw him.... | 22:41 |
| X-Fade | lol, arriving red eyed and then straight to the party ;) | 22:41 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: beer will keep you going | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, this is Amsterdam | 22:42 |
| lardman | hey X-Fade | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, unlikely. | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I'll buy you some charlie to pull through ;) | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, one beer and I'm on my face. | 22:42 |
| lardman | we'll prop you upright and pour then | 22:42 |
| lardman | ;) | 22:42 |
| lardman | crashanddie: tell you work in London | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | eh? | 22:43 |
| * RST38h looks at X-fade with expectation | 22:43 | |
| lardman | he'll need a £50 note too | 22:43 |
| crashanddie | btw, won a race today :D | 22:43 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: Any day now.. | 22:43 |
| crashanddie | one of the housemates bet I wouldn't be able to beat him with my bike -- versus him on the train | 22:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: you? | 22:44 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: I am ready to push stuff, last show stopping bug fixed 30 minutes ago | 22:44 |
| lardman | easier to pick up bike to hit someone? | 22:44 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, me, yes :) | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: hehe, nice :p | 22:44 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Ok, let me see if I can at least setup extras-devel non-free for you tomorrow. | 22:44 |
| RST38h | Will need changing a few packaging scripts, but it is all cosmetic | 22:44 |
| * GeneralAntilles is turning Tim Machine back on as soon as the SSD gets here. | 22:44 | |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Meanwhile, fms.komkon.org/VGBA/ and look for "Maemo" there | 22:44 |
| RST38h | =) | 22:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | s/Tim/Time/ | 22:47 |
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| lardman | SSD? | 22:49 |
| lardman | Solid State Disk (of Psion fame)? | 22:49 |
| bobbyd_ | lcuk: hi | 22:49 |
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| bobbyd_ | lcuk: I've got javispedro's OpenGL ES app to compile, but it does *nothing* when I run it :(. I even stuck a printf at the start of main() but nothing happens | 22:51 |
| lcuk | then you didnt compile it right.. | 22:52 |
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| * lardman wonders how to expand his widgets | 22:54 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | feed 'em lard | 22:54 |
| * Myrtti feels all warm and fuzzy | 22:54 | |
| * Stskeeps is happy to be home on his couch | 22:55 | |
| lardman | I mean if I have an hbox, how can I give one widget 2/3 of the width? | 22:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, 80GB Intel X25-m Gen 2. | 22:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the Talk transition all over again. | 22:55 |
| bobbyd_ | GeneralAntilles: I've got an X-25 E at work :) | 22:55 |
| bobbyd_ | lcuk: but I get no warnings or link errors | 22:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | bobbyd_, I only wish I had $700 lying around for a HARD DRIVE. :D | 22:56 |
| bobbyd_ | and it seems to output a valid executable | 22:56 |
| bobbyd_ | GeneralAntilles: I didn't buy it, and it was for a specific purpose :) | 22:56 |
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| RST38h | moo javis | 22:57 |
| javispedro | hiya | 22:58 |
| bobbyd_ | javispedro: did you do anything special to build your OGLES example? | 22:59 |
| javispedro | bobbyd_: build? no. | 22:59 |
| javispedro | why you ask? | 22:59 |
| bobbyd_ | when I run it, nothing happens, at all. I put a printf right at the start of main() and I get no output in the console. I've compiled a simple test program that does output text from printf, so I'm a bit confused as to why it's not working | 23:00 |
| bobbyd_ | it's really weird | 23:00 |
| javispedro | are you on x86 I suppose | 23:00 |
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| lcuk | game on! | 23:00 |
| javispedro | hi lcuk | 23:00 |
| lcuk | bobbyd_, when code wont run for me like that i rip everything out and start with hello world again | 23:01 |
| lcuk | hiya javispedro | 23:01 |
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| bobbyd_ | javispedro: do I need to be under the ARM target? | 23:01 |
| javispedro | bobbyd_: au the contraire | 23:01 |
| bobbyd_ | ok | 23:02 |
| javispedro | bobbyd_: did you make sure your printf ended in \n ? | 23:02 |
| bobbyd_ | let me try it again, I'll comment out everything apart from the printf. | 23:02 |
| bobbyd_ | yep | 23:02 |
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| javispedro | bobbyd_: there's no check for failing XOpenDisplay call. so it may crash at local variable initialization time if there's no X11 server available (no $DISPLAY) | 23:04 |
| bobbyd_ | ok | 23:04 |
| bobbyd_ | I'll have a look, I just wondered if there was anything obvious :) | 23:05 |
| lcuk | that "we love lcuk" thread needs bringing back to life every now and again | 23:05 |
| javispedro | (so if you're commeting anything to test be sure to comment Display *dpy = etc... | 23:05 |
| lcuk | its really made me smile :D | 23:05 |
| javispedro | ) | 23:05 |
| javispedro | heh | 23:05 |
| bobbyd_ | ok | 23:05 |
| * lcuk slaps qwerty12_N810 tho | 23:05 | |
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| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: didn't your mum tell you to respect all southerners? | 23:07 |
| lcuk | no, i believe she told me to slap them | 23:07 |
| penguinbait | hey lcuk, better than this thread | 23:07 |
| penguinbait | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28877 | 23:07 |
| javispedro | I see this south-north war is big stuff. | 23:07 |
| javispedro | ;) | 23:07 |
| penguinbait | people love you, and wonder what happened to me? | 23:08 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: yep, and we're winning | 23:09 |
| lcuk | lol | 23:09 |
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| lcuk | you think you are winning, all the time we are on top | 23:10 |
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| * lcuk rises above the silly southerners ;) | 23:10 | |
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| * javispedro ponders bumping drnoksnes to 1.2.0.. | 23:12 | |
| lcuk | bloody nora! | 23:13 |
| * javispedro hears about free karma and can't resist posting in lcuk's thread ;) | 23:15 | |
| lcuk | gfi, ill thank anyone that wants to worship me \o/ | 23:16 |
| lcuk | anyway, its not my thread | 23:16 |
| * javispedro opens We hate lcuk!!! thread where qwerty12_N810 will thank everyone posting there | 23:16 | |
| penguinbait | ( )o( ) | 23:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: I worship you by calling you a whore. Now thank me. | 23:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: yessir | 23:16 |
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| frals | hmm, when ur on 3G, you got one voice and one data connection right? couldnt you get that to be dual data? | 23:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810 _really_ respects whores. | 23:17 |
| frals | <- 3g/gsm noob ;) | 23:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Yes, I do have the utmost respect for you | 23:17 |
| lcuk | frals, i dunno | 23:18 |
| lcuk | its just automatic mumbo jumbo | 23:18 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810 to placate some might be an idea to actually indicate in the initial posting of your that it was later sorted ;) | 23:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: be thankful that they didn't realise it was just all a ploy for Thanks! and to boost the thread | 23:20 |
| javispedro | frals: I dunno about 3G, but I read somewhere that MMS requires an extra inet connection. | 23:20 |
| lcuk | ahhh well | 23:20 |
| frals | yeah it requires you to connect to a specific APN to get the MMS | 23:20 |
| javispedro | s/inet/net | 23:20 |
| frals | or rather, most operator requires that afaik | 23:21 |
| javispedro | frals: well, icd2 is supposed to be able to handle that :S | 23:21 |
| RST38h | Ok, AlmostTI works now | 23:21 |
| javispedro | (the nit internet connectivity daemon, in case you're wondering) | 23:21 |
| frals | yeah was looking at that yesterday, from what i gathered it required user confirmation when starting a new connection, which would be annoying when auto fetching an mms | 23:22 |
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| frals | on the other hand im sure i dont have the whole picture and it can be circumvented somehow ;) | 23:22 |
| ShadowJK | i'd think you'd be able to set it no-confirm | 23:23 |
| javispedro | frals: not sure. apps can open wi-fi if a default if set | 23:23 |
| javispedro | considering we could have control of the plugin and thus be able to decide if "default is set", I'd guess we'd be able to bypass confirmation. | 23:23 |
| Myrtti | wohey, committed revision 201 to our svn | 23:23 |
| frals | ye - but does that setting apply to just the one connection or systemwide.. | 23:23 |
| frals | ah good point javispedro | 23:23 |
| lcuk | holy smoke! | 23:24 |
| lcuk | AndrewFBlack has done a fremantle theme for diablo | 23:25 |
| javispedro | (either way, the mms not necessarily has to be managed by icd2, and you may have worse kernel problems to resolve) | 23:25 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=335567&postcount=1102 | 23:25 |
| javispedro | sweet zombie jesus! | 23:25 |
| lcuk | frals, javispedro make sure the important bits of your dialog goes onto the wiki page | 23:25 |
| frals | im working on that atm | 23:25 |
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| lcuk | :D | 23:26 |
| frals | or well, kinda making a new page with it summarized and then linking back to the convo | 23:26 |
| javispedro | don't consider my word authoritave, it am not a icd2 dev ;) | 23:26 |
| lcuk | yeah perfect | 23:26 |
| * ShadowJK doubts kernel issues | 23:26 | |
| javispedro | well, sometimes I have to believe what Nokians say, else I would become insane. | 23:26 |
| lcuk | javispedro, your word is good as a counterpoint to a conversation, even if you dont know it exactly it helps to make the right sounds | 23:27 |
| * lcuk talks over problems with tracy often | 23:27 | |
| lcuk | she nods and mmms in the right places too :) | 23:27 |
| frals | :D | 23:28 |
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| javispedro | frals: and apps can request for a certain IAP to be activated, thus mms apps could request the mms iap to be activated. | 23:29 |
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| frals | geh, embarassing with 2 edits on the same page in a row... :p | 23:35 |
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| javispedro | hopefully you'll get to something :) | 23:36 |
| javispedro | i don't personally need mms but it would such a great example of why maemo rocks. | 23:36 |
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| lcuk | mms allows us to show off photos we have made with our devices :) | 23:37 |
| lcuk | to connect us with those we love | 23:37 |
| javispedro | at such a price, it would better allow me to show off those photos to martians. | 23:37 |
| lcuk | lol | 23:38 |
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| lcuk | how much is roaming fee | 23:38 |
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| * qwerty12_N810 feels the same way about northerners | 23:38 | |
| ShadowJK | (and then the mms adaptation server decides to resize your photo to 128x128 | 23:38 |
| javispedro | to mars? around a trillion euros. the usual 10% over normal fare. | 23:38 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, its not the size that matters | 23:39 |
| javispedro | well lcuk, i'd say that at 128x128 size does matter a bit. | 23:39 |
| javispedro | your greatest photo ever gets converted to a damn icon. | 23:39 |
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| lcuk | ive had lots of mms messages that made me smile | 23:40 |
| lcuk | ive had some that make me squint and turn the phone round too | 23:40 |
| lcuk | and others that make me cover it up | 23:40 |
| lcuk | but the idea is there | 23:40 |
| lcuk | javispedro, you also need to think | 23:42 |
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| javispedro | I think a lot. sometimes. | 23:43 |
| lcuk | most folks dont have super high res phones | 23:43 |
| lcuk | phoey sdk is dead | 23:43 |
| javispedro | lcuk: even then. 128x128 is today's "big icon" size. it should die. | 23:43 |
| lcuk | i thought leaving it near a bowl of water might encourage it back to life | 23:44 |
| javispedro | I'd say VGA starts to be "enough". | 23:44 |
| * lcuk levels with you | 23:44 | |
| lcuk | there is one even bigger reason why we absolutely need MMS | 23:45 |
| lcuk | the fucking iphone folks will laugh at us. | 23:45 |
| * lcuk gets a beer :D | 23:45 | |
| javispedro | that's why I am saying | 23:45 |
| javispedro | that if mms is not in the base phone | 23:45 |
| javispedro | but the community gets a proper solution... | 23:45 |
| javispedro | tada! | 23:45 |
| * lbt laughs at numbskulls using mms instead of email | 23:46 | |
| frals | http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_implementation | 23:46 |
| frals | tear it apart! | 23:46 |
| * lbt has a brainwave | 23:46 | |
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| lbt | I think the community should implement.... | 23:46 |
| lbt | faxes | 23:47 |
| javispedro | faxes! what a great idea | 23:47 |
| lbt | actually that would be a cool PUSH | 23:47 |
| javispedro | actually, I think i've sent more faxes than mms | 23:47 |
| lbt | sits right alongside MMS | 23:47 |
| lcuk | frals, the Push N900 project includes a radio hack that receives an SMS, and processes and does things with it | 23:47 |
| lcuk | it should work | 23:47 |
| lbt | shame we can't plug a printer in... | 23:48 |
| javispedro | lcuk: the issue is that I guess the mms notification is not an "std SMS". | 23:48 |
| * lbt ducks | 23:48 | |
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| lcuk | javispedro, ok - but we are now "somewhere" instead of nowhere | 23:49 |
| lcuk | frals, thanks a lot for this | 23:49 |
| javispedro | dunno, but yes. getting the ball rolled is the hardest part. | 23:49 |
| lcuk | aSIMULAter, perhaps you and your gang might be the best people to attack the bottom section | 23:50 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_implementation | 23:50 |
| frals | np, im happy to help anyone i can :) | 23:50 |
| * sp3000 wonders who the closed bug state in bugs.maemo is for | 23:50 | |
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| javispedro | bt | 23:52 |
| javispedro | frals: what "confirmation dialog" are you fearing? | 23:52 |
| javispedro | come to think of it, on diablo at least, icd only shows a confirmation dialog when flight mode is on. | 23:52 |
| frals | i guess thats from my days with a symbian device - have to allow apps to access the net, and then choose which one it should use | 23:53 |
| frals | but i saw smth in the icd2 that said something about user confirmation, i *think* | 23:53 |
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| lcuk | lbt - wifi and bt printers exist | 23:54 |
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| javispedro | frals: 4-253-203-192.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi) ha | 23:54 |
| lbt | yeah, but come on.... a thermal printer plugged into an N900 printing a fax.... | 23:54 |
| javispedro | disch | 23:54 |
| lcuk | lbt agreed | 23:54 |
| javispedro | frals: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/icd2/group__dbus__api.html#g2d518bd08002c0a8a92c8ba00546360f | 23:54 |
| lcuk | but work with what we have :P | 23:54 |
| lbt | alongside a notice "No MMS support though" | 23:55 |
| lbt | "too naff" | 23:55 |
| javispedro | I see no mention of confirmation dialog, and there's none in diablo. | 23:55 |
| frals | yeah, i think i misread the documentation i found | 23:56 |
| frals | feel free to edit that out, looks bad on recent changes with only my name there.. :D | 23:56 |
| lcuk | either way, its bad form to disconnect qwerty12_N810's dodgy torrents | 23:56 |
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| lcuk | im guessing lots dont have internet connected most of the time anyway | 23:56 |
| * javispedro will edit, and thus remove his typos from the irc log ;) | 23:56 | |
| lcuk | but just in case | 23:56 |
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| javispedro | the only think I'm not sure about it's if icd2 really handles multiple active connections | 23:57 |
| javispedro | the api is designed to handle that | 23:57 |
| javispedro | the ui is not... | 23:58 |
| frals | hmm need to try if i get disconnected when receiving mms on my n95 | 23:58 |
| javispedro | frals: you're new here? do you have a n8x0? | 23:58 |
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| sp3000 | now to figure out how to query bugzilla to get a list of all users that have set a bug CLOSED so I can cc them to the bug requesting removing that state... | 23:58 |
| frals | yepp - im new, and no, no previous tablets, as a poor student i can justify a table along side my laptop, workstation and my phone - so the n900 is my dream device ;) | 23:59 |
| javispedro | frals: ah well, icd2 has not changed much from the one in n810, at least visibily. | 23:59 |
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| frals | just checking to see if symbian can keep 2 connections alive over 3g as ive never thought about it before | 23:59 |
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