IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-08-19

msaraivaThere's no "clear device" on my N800's control panel.00:00
zakkmyou doing that in tablet?00:00
zakkmmsaraiva: wow it must be outdated :P00:00
msaraivaThat's why i want to flash it :P00:00
zakkmin that case dont worry, its not that ugly :P00:00
Stskeepszakkm: vmdk00:00
zakkmStskeeps: whats the "clear device" in os2007? is there?00:01
msaraivaI'm running OS2008.00:01
zakkmhow do you not see clear device?00:01
zakkmokay your at control panel, yes?00:01
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zakkmmsaraiva: click control panel at top .. theres open view tools close..00:01
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zakkmin tools - theres no "clear device" or "restore original settings" ?00:02
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msaraivaIt's on the menu, not one of the icons.00:02
zakkmi said press the key above the home key00:02
zakkmthats the menu key00:02
zakkmwow eplawless lives near me hah :P00:02
msaraivaWhat's the default code?00:03
zakkm012345 probably00:03
zakkmperson might of set one, theres a way to get it though00:03
zakkmdiscovered it like two days ago00:03
msaraivaWell, it's not 01234500:03
msaraivaI bought this thing used.00:03
zakkmme too00:03
zakkmsame tablet00:03
zakkm$145 cad, person came to me00:03
zakkmmsaraiva:  <--- run that in terminal00:04
zakkmapp menu - utilities - terminal00:04
VDVsxStskeeps, for the summit ;) (I hope in the nokia day :P)00:05
zakkmGeneralAntilles: still here?00:05
zakkmoh sorry :(00:07
zakkmi thought it started at 000:07
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zakkmflashing though idk, a reboot would probably help cause it would be unmounted and all ( reboot of OS , not tablet )00:08
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zakkmmsaraiva: hows it working out?00:13
msaraivaWorked like a charm.00:15
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msaraivaNow on to clone the internal flash to the SD card..00:16
zakkmwooh :)00:16
zakkmis this your first tablet?00:16
msaraivaI want to dual boot this baby.00:16
zakkmoh cool congrats :)00:16
msaraivaMy first reaaally portable linux device.00:16
zakkmmay i recommend you clone it, install Tear as web browser, believe me you wont go back to microb :P00:16
zakkminstall mplayer00:16
zakkmcan playback 175mb/350mb's xvids perfectly00:16
zakkminstall mytube for youtube watching/downloading00:17
msaraivaYeah, i had it installed bef formating.00:17
msaraivaWhat about @scene?00:17
zakkmdid you try Tear?00:17
msaraivaNot yet.00:17
zakkm@scene sucks in my opinion00:17
zakkmTear = super fastt browser :)00:17
msaraivaIs it in the "extras" repo?00:17
zakkmtear? no00:17
zakkmyou install qoles repository00:17
lcuktry @scene00:18
lcukhave a look round extras00:18
lcukdip your toes with stable software :)00:18
zakkminstasll liqbase :D your love it :)00:18
zakkm0.1.5 for reading omg00:18
zakkmmsaraiva: do you plan to read on it?00:18
zakkmlike text / books and such00:18
zakkmlcuk: did i tell you my friend is buying a n800 as opposed to a kindle, just because of your app?00:19
lcuksounds good :)00:20
zakkmi mean it is cheaper and in color too, but yeah00:20
zakkmhe was going to buy a kindle im like omg you gotta see this *shows 0.1.5 liqbase*00:20
msaraivaZakkm: Yep. Portrait mode ;)00:20
zakkmmsaraiva:  you really should try liqbase 0.1.5 (lcuk's app)00:21
msaraivaExtras repo?00:21
zakkmlike uhh reads sd cards and all . .select the file click read... ( it saves where you left off )00:21
zakkmand then its like black background white text00:21
msaraivaWhat's the config for "qoles" repo?00:21
zakkmcan use arrow buttons to go up or down.. or just move with touchscreen00:21
zakkmand it like kinetic scrolling00:21
zakkm left side00:21
zakkm"My maemo repository"00:22
zakkmTear, mplayer, mytube, Almost TI, uhh00:22
msaraivaI'll first enable root access, and then clone the internal flash.00:22
msaraivaThen i'll start installing apps.00:23
zakkmabiword/leafpad whichever you prefer00:23
zakkmyou can do sudo gainroot00:23
zakkmi dont think you need to download anything for that00:23
zakkmand you dont need root to clone to internal00:23
zakkmuse "console-tools v1" onesecc
zakkmread post, and link will be there ( first post )00:24
msaraivaK, i'm now cloning the internal flash.00:25
zakkmmsaraiva: dont mind me asking, how much did you pay for your n80000:26
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zakkmif you dont mind me asking*00:26
msaraivaNah, np.00:27
msaraivaI live in Brazil :P00:27
zakkm248 reais?00:27
zakkmnot badd after taxes and all?00:27
msaraivaNah, 248 USD.00:28
zakkmoh woww00:28
msaraivaI bought it here.00:28
zakkmvery much00:28
zakkmi paid 117 usd for mine originally hah00:28
msaraivaI didn't buy it on ebay...00:28
zakkmi know00:28
zakkmebay sucks for high gadgets :P00:28
msaraivaCustoms :S00:29
zakkmactually thats not bad, friend was going to get the n800 ( lives inbrazil too , saulo carlos ? ) and it was like 799 reais00:29
msaraivaSão Carlos, a small city on the state of São Paulo.00:31
zakkmyeahh thats it00:31
msaraivaDamn, 800 bucks?!00:31
msaraivaYeah, reais.00:31
msaraivaNot 800 usd.00:31
zakkmthis was maybe a year back though00:31
zakkminstead he got a laptop00:31
zakkmmaybe it was the n810 though then?00:31
zakkmthat seems more sense00:31
msaraivaAnyway, we can buy it NIB for 500 reais.00:32
zakkmbut yeah brand new in store00:32
msaraivaor 10x49,90.00:32
zakkmi loveee brazil everything ends in .9000:32
zakkmhere its all 99 :(00:32
zakkm4.99 5.9900:32
zakkmdo you know why that is?00:32
msaraivaAnd we love to pay for stuff in "small" monthly payments.00:32
msaraivaIs that correct?00:32
zakkmsao carlo is nice right?00:33
zakkmalways complains theres nothing to do00:33
msaraivaIt's very small.00:34
msaraivaBut it's close to São Paulo.00:34
msaraivaBiiiig city.00:34
zakkmyeahh  i wanna go there :)00:34
msaraivaBeen there once, when i got my VCP cert (VMware Certified Professional) :P00:34
zakkmfriend goes to school in sao carlo.00:34
zakkmwow nice00:34
msaraivaHey, lemme ask you don't happen to live close to Portland, right? lol00:35
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zakkmPortland oregon?00:35
msaraivaA "friend" of mine from Portland robbed me :-/00:35
msaraiva700 USD :-/00:35
zakkmi know several people there. but no i dont i live in Toronto, Canada.00:35
msaraivaI asked him to buy me some stuff from newegg, but he kept my money and just disappeared...00:36
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zakkmoh woww :(00:36
zakkmthatsss awful00:36
zakkmthatss huge trust too00:36
zakkmvery dangerous00:36
zakkmits not worth it though too, cause once you send to brazil, they will insanely import tax it.. i tried00:37
zakkmi tried sending stuff to my friend in brazil.. same thing and i live in a city and its cheaper than newegg hah00:37
zakkmbut in the end it turned out more expensive than buying it in brazil00:37
msaraivaI'm used to buy stuff from overseas.00:37
zakkmhes a fan of dealextreme ;P dont usually get taxed and free shipping helps00:37
msaraivaI always ask to "undercut" the price, when filling the customs form.00:38
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zakkmyeah i even tried filling it out as a gift00:38
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zakkmeven thoguh it was at one point00:38
zakkmbut that only goes so far00:38
msaraivaYou can't send many packages like that...00:38
msaraivaThe best thing to do is to put a "reasonable" value, and pay the tax.00:39
zakkmit was just a few00:39
zakkmat different times00:39
msaraivaThey won't open the package, if you do that.00:39
zakkmand one was really a gift00:39
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msaraivaI really need to flash this thing, "clear device" only clears the personal data.00:39
zakkmyou have another OS?00:39
msaraivaAll programs are still installed :S00:39
zakkmyou can flash on the tablet itself apparently00:39
zakkmdont think it can flash rootfs though00:40
msaraivaI'll try from other pc.00:40
zakkmwindows is best or mac00:40
zakkmeven try rebooting.00:41
zakkmlike the computer00:41
msaraivaLemme try from another pc...00:41
msaraivaFedora, this time.00:41
zakkmwhat was it last time?00:41
msaraivaWorked like a charm, now :S00:43
msaraivaFlashing the device.00:43
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msaraivaLol, it's fast.00:43
zakkmmandriva.. people still use that?00:43
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: gdebi is shit slow on an N800 at least. :\00:43
zakkmyeah flashing should only take like 10 seconds00:43
zakkmisnt application manager good enough?00:44
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: A little wrapper around dpkg -i shouldn't be too hard to knock up00:44
Jaffazakkm: Considering the "install a random little util which someone's knocked up" use case.00:44
JaffaAdmittedly, pushing them towards extras-devel, even for such little things which are in-progress wouldn't be a bad thing.00:45
qwerty12_N810I'd prefer to see Application Manager have the ability to resolve dependencies. I can't believe that was overlooked.00:45
zakkmohh Jaffa: guess what? i found out my calling card i use for my cellphone and all works on gizmo, so tablet is perfect for calling out :)00:45
msaraivaMandriva is a pretty solid distro.00:45
zakkmqwerty12_N810: not even in the fremantle version?00:45
Jaffazakkm: Fremantle HAM's had "install from file" removed.00:45
zakkmmsaraiva: mandriva always caused me soooo much pain.. way less than gentoo -.-00:45
zakkmthats awful00:46
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zakkmcan it still work if you open deb in application manager? like support just removed menu entry?00:46
Jaffazakkm: I don't believe so, but I haven't checked that.00:46
qwerty12_N810It appears in red-pill mode. Which is ironic because the plan is for people not to use it...00:47
zakkmsounds like it could of been a menu decision, i dont know why'd they would remove that00:47
zakkmor how it tells the difference00:47
zakkmqwerty12_N810: it could be they trying to appear to public now, as opposed to linux techies.. who would see install from file and be like ??? hmmm lets google download stuff00:47
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: The menu entry appears in red-pill mode? It might be enough to ship a package to extras which sets the appropriate $HOME/.osso/hildon-application-manager line ;-)00:47
zakkmidk :P00:47
zakkmjaffa: tell Stskeeps :) i think he changed to fremantles app manager version00:48
zakkmshowed a screenshot earlier00:48
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: The user would then be exposed to the full range of settings because I doubt it has a standalone option to show the entry ;P00:48
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Damnit.00:49
qwerty12_N810Interesting decision though...00:49
* javispedro fears that with all those now removed options and software being 10 days on a queue, users will be more interested in enabling red-pill mode/extras-devel/rootme instead of less.00:50
Jaffajavispedro: Users who want to test things can use extras-testing00:50
zakkmqwerty12_N810: no uhh gconf-editor setting?00:50
zakkm"enable install to file"00:50
qwerty12_N810hildon-application-manager doesn't use GConf.00:51
zakkmgconf config, sorry i dont know linux stuff that much00:51
zakkmred pill it is ! :P00:51
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zakkmhow does red pill work exactly?00:53
qwerty12_N810People will be wanting a patched ham due to Nokia making their legal warning even more anal-retentive (AFAIK, it doesn't have a "show me one time only" option).00:53
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zakkmwhat does it exactly do00:53
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zakkmmsaraiva: still here?00:55
zakkmfound out friend lives in "Mococa, Brazil"00:56
zakkmwhile hes not at school00:56
msaraivaLol, it's even smaller than São Carlos.00:56
zakkmhows cloning turning out?00:56
msaraivaCan i really run "pb" without root privileges?00:57
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zakkmit actually doesnt work in root privileges for me00:57
qwerty12_N810It adds itself to sudoers FYI...00:57
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zakkmwait isnt that totally aganist sudo?00:57
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msaraivaThat's how it's able to partition the card, then :p00:57
zakkmthe fact that packages can add itself00:57
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Someone else said that, it didn't look any more anal to me...00:58
zakkmruin the whole point?00:58
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qwerty12_N810Jaffa: You have to tick a box and then click OK now00:58
msaraiva"Searching for partitions...100%"00:58
msaraivaAnd then exits.00:58
msaraiva"ESC pressed"00:58
qwerty12_N810zakkm: Maemo has a system for doing it "properly" even...00:58
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Ah, true - I'd seen it, but not thought it through00:58
zakkmqwerty12_N810: its still beta isnt it, its not final.00:59
msaraivaShould i clear the SD card first?00:59
zakkmcan easily change00:59
zakkmmsaraiva: doesnt matter00:59
zakkmit uses fdisk to clear00:59
msaraivaDunno why is it exiting, then...00:59
zakkmtry pbeasy00:59
msaraivaWhat's the fat partition used for?01:00
zakkmqwerty12_N810: there wasnt much time anyways 43-7 came out and install-tools didnt work... had to do it fast so ppl could update01:00
msaraivaSo i can decide the size...01:00
zakkmmsaraiva: swap mostly01:00
zakkmmake it like 128mb01:01
msaraiva256mb should be enough.01:01
zakkmyou make 2 fat's and 1 ext301:01
msaraivaIt's a big card, 16gb.01:01
msaraivaWhy 2 fat partitions?01:01
zakkmdo 256mb 256mb "rest"01:01
zakkmno idea01:01
qwerty12_N810zakkm: I've never used it. My preferred cloning method involves bootmenu, mkfs.jffs2, a computer, and a lot of time :p01:01
zakkmwell not everyone is so tech savvy :)01:02
lcukclone device to device would be nice01:02
qwerty12_N810Meh, it's stuff I picked up from that "Modifying root images" page on the wiki :p01:02
lcukshhh dont tell people you read01:02
lcukyou have a neo like zen01:03
lcukand you just know stuff01:03
msaraivaI've read such guides on the web...doesn't look hard.01:03
msaraivaBut i don't have much time left, gotta go to college.01:03
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* lcuk cant build a library using scratchbox01:03
lcukit fails to configure01:03
zakkmmsaraiva: you on holiday? friend is on holiday from uni due to "Swine flu"01:03
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zakkmoh waittt maybe hes back maybe thats why i havent seen him on today01:04
msaraivaNo, thank's God we don't have many cases up here, on Ceará.01:04
lcukirc quarantine for swine flu01:04
lcukthat should stop the spread01:04
msaraivapbeasy closes itself when i select "clone'01:05
zakkmfriend went to vancouver shes like im scared :( swine flu cases... i started laughing :)01:05
zakkmmsaraiva: dont select it use the touchscreen to select it01:05
zakkmand then just enter, gotta be real careful, pissed the hell out of me , its so a n810 app01:05
msaraivaTried doing that too.01:05
msaraivaLemme try again...01:06
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msaraivaKeeps exiting01:07
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msaraivaFound out the script used...01:10
msaraivaBut i need root access first :S01:11
infobothmm... root-access is
msaraivaThanks, i was already looking at the wiki.01:12
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msaraivaLol, it's the script that's not working, not pbeasy01:15
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msaraivaSo, pbeasy does not work on my device...01:16
msaraivaOn to manual cloning.01:16
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zakkmwow powercut -.-01:17
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msaraivaRunning from ssh worked.01:21
msaraivaIt's formatting the filesystems.01:21
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zakkmpb from ssh?01:21
msaraivaThe last step is "shutdown", so i should be good.01:22
msaraivaIt's cloning the flash.01:23
zakkmi hope :P01:23
zakkmwell you didnt get that right :P01:23
msaraivaReally, i skipped my Data Structures class to mess on this thing :P01:23
zakkmbtw you hold menu key as its starting to boot :P01:23
zakkmturn on tablet.. hold menu key and boot menu appears01:24
msaraivaTo make it display the boot menu?01:24
msaraivaIf i don't hold the menu key, it boots straight to the internal flash?01:24
zakkmah guess so :P01:25
zakkmmine goes to menu for two seconds... then goes to flash01:25
zakkmguess yours didnt01:25
msaraivaI've set it to wait 10 seconds.01:28
msaraivaCloning failed, it may not be reliable.01:28
zakkmit said failed?01:28
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zakkmfirst boot usually fails01:28
zakkmrestart and do it again01:28
msaraivaAnd it said it's going to reboot01:28
msaraivait worked01:28
msaraivaNo, i have the boot menu, but it didn't clone the fs.01:29
msaraivaWell, i think it's the only step missing.01:29
mikkov_jeremiah: "Make sure the name of the binary package that gets built is the same as the package name." not a good idea IMO01:30
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jaemhey folks01:31
zakkmhey jaem! :D01:31
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jaemI'm still working on the port of Einstein01:33
jaemor will be when I get NX to stop being stupid, so I can access my SDK VM...01:33
jaemand there was some discussion on the forums about which key would work best for a right-click modifier01:34
jaemI was originally thinking that the full-screen button would work, but it's not good for lefties01:34
jaemso I figure I should offer at least two options01:34
jaemany suggestions for left-handed play?01:34
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mikkov_jaem: you could use any key which is not used for anything else. That would most likely work even with maemo5 device01:38
mikkov_rx-51 apparently doesn't have fullscreen key (not sure though)01:39
jaemmikkov_: yes, I realize, but while I can add features later, I was hoping to find a good lefty key, so that I could just provide two choices for now01:39
johnsqmikkov_: is the right-click time critical?01:39
mikkov_johnsq: for einstein? I have no idea, never played it01:39
johnsqmikkov_: yes, normaly right-click is done by long-click on tablets01:40
mikkov_jaem: compare picuteres of N800 and N810 and choose there. There isn't much options01:40
mikkov_johnsq: that sucks most of the time01:41
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jaemjohnsq: this is an SDL app - tap-and-hold doesn't work in it01:41
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jaemhence the problem01:41
mikkov_jaem: you can make it work if you really want to01:41
jaemmikkov_: how so?01:41
mikkov_jaem: but using modifier key is much better in games01:42
jaemmikkov_: good point01:42
johnsqjaem: just rotate the display for left-handers01:42
jaemjohnsq: that would work, but holding the tablet steady and pressing the full-screen button isn't as easy as I'd like01:43
mikkov_jaem: tap'n'hold is just a long mouse button press. count the how long button is pressed and thereÃ's tap'nhold01:43
jaemit's probably the best I'll get, though01:43
javispedrodoesn't fremantle now use simulated multitouch for context menu/right click?01:43
javispedroit should be easy to detect in SDL.01:43
jaemjohnsq: can I trigger the screen rotation in program easily?01:44
jaemin my*01:44
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javispedrooprofile rules!01:45
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johnsqjaem: on desktop yes, with maemo i don't know, its xrandr.01:45
jaemjohnsq: ah right... I'll check into that01:45
javispedrosave for that wierd c++ destructor consuming 40% of cpu time, which I don't believe right now...01:45
mikkov_maemo4 doesn''t support xrandr, it would require apatched xserver01:47
qwerty12_N810You'd also have to "rotate" the keys too01:47
qwerty12_N810(d-pad ones, that is)01:48
jaemqwerty12_N810; thanks, but this game doesn't use the D-Pad01:48
jaemmikkov_: the patches are easy to get, but I guess it wouldn't be good to rely on that01:49
qwerty12_N810Ah, fair enough :)01:49
mikkov_mikkov_: exactly, you canÃ't rely on it01:49
jaemoh wait a minute01:49
jaemhere's an idea01:49
jaemis the D-Pad center button mapped differently than the keyboard Enter key?01:50
mikkov_it'd KP_ENTER01:50
lardman|tvnight all01:50
mikkov_no it RETURN01:50
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jaemmikkov_: wait.. so, are they different, or not?01:50
mikkov_N810 normal enter key is KP_ENTER01:50
mikkov_d-pad center is RETURN01:51
jaemah, okay01:51
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jaemso I could use the d-pad center for the modifier, and that would make N800 users happy, while not being much less convenient on the N81001:51
jaemalthough that's still not perfect01:51
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qwerty12_N810Me, being the selfish right handed prick that I am, has to ask: why are you modifying it for lefties? It's not like the tablet is designed with left-handed people in mind...01:53
jaemthat's true, but I'd prefer to make it work for everyone at least somewhat01:53
jaemalthough you have a point01:53
javispedrothe only solution that may work for both is a touch-screen only one...01:53
jaemit's just that it's essentially impossible to play left-handed, using the full-screen button01:54
jaemjavispedro: we're talking about a 12px target area, though, and tap-and-hold isn't practical01:54
javispedrowhat about some gesture01:54
javispedrotap and go left01:54
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jaemnot much to work with01:54
javispedrotap and drag left over the 12px mark.01:54
jaemyes, that would work01:54
javispedro12px means stylus game I guess.01:54
jaemjavispedro: yes01:55
jaemI'll make a note of that, but I wont' be able to work on this for several days, at least, due to surgery tomorrow; I'm trying to get it into shape for a release in the next hour or so01:55
jaemI'll just use full-screen for now01:56
jaembut thanks for the idea01:56
javispedrogood luck01:56
mikkov_jaem: why don't use both fullscreen and dpad center01:56
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jaemmikkov_: sounds good01:58
jaemby the way, Nokia isn't to blame for the tablets not being left-handed-friendly01:58
jaemit's TI's fault01:58
jaemif they'd just release a left-handed OMAP. then Nokia could just flip everything, and making an alternate left-handed model would be more economical01:59
zakkmthe tablet is 100% left handed friendly01:59
zakkmim left handed myself.. my right handed is so useless its not even funny01:59
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GeneralAntilleszakkm, yes.02:18
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zakkmGeneralAntilles: just got installed the 0.16testing2 mer, and it requires usb networking, but the documentation is for linux.  by /etc/networks.. would yu know how to do it for mac?02:19
GeneralAntilleszakkm, you need to install a driver of some kind02:19
GeneralAntillesNot sure if it works on Intel02:19
jaemGeneralAntilles: Darwin doesn't have support built in?02:19
GeneralAntillesNot sure what the story is.02:19
GeneralAntillesI was never able to get it to work anyway.02:20
jaemthe person who wrote this code alternately uses spaces and tabs02:22
GeneralAntillesI still believe neck tasers should be a requirement to use the internet.02:22
jaemisn't there a cli program that can clean up things like that?02:22
jaemGeneralAntilles: haha02:23
zakkmif i were to flash tablet in host mode, would that work in mer, or just maemo?02:24
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jaemzakkm: sorry, what?02:33
zakkmcan the tablet be flashed in host only02:33
jaemdo you mean switch the USB port into host mode, or flash the tablet while in host mode?02:33
zakkmso i can use keyboard in mer / maemo at boot02:33
jaemwell, you can change modes by manipulating a /proc entry, so it shouldn't be hard02:34
zakkm --enable-usb-host-mode        Set the device into USB host mode02:34
jaemoh that02:34
zakkmis that for maemo though02:34
zakkmor all OS's on device02:34
jaemI would think that if it's in the flasher, it would be a hardware setting, but I'm not sure02:34
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jaemwhy do you need it at boot?02:34
zakkmfor mer02:34
zakkmnew 0.16testing2 doesnt accept virtualkeyboard02:35
zakkmat first boot wizard02:35
zakkmso i need to get past it02:35
jaemokay - I haven't been following along02:35
jaemwell, you could alternately add a startup script that uses the /proc trick02:35
qwerty12_N810AFAIK, That flasher option is for the 770, where the USB mode cannot be manipulated with a sysfs entry02:35
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zakkmbut can it still work on n800 and used in mer?02:35
GeneralAntillesjaem, vim?02:36
jaemGeneralAntilles: heh... probably02:36
GeneralAntilleszakkm, flasher has to be done in client.02:36
jaemI'll get around to learning vim at some point02:36
GeneralAntillesjaem, I'm pretty sure I saw a recipe somewhere.02:36
jaemI just keep putting it off02:36
zakkmGeneralAntilles: so it wont work?02:36
GeneralAntillesjaem, you don't know how many times I opened up vimtutor before I actually got through it. . . .02:37
jaemI had to laugh when I opened a nano instance for my friend (who's a long-time vim user), and he was quite confused02:37
GeneralAntillesjaem, :retab maybe.02:37
GeneralAntillesvim is one of those hatefully complicated, but incredibly useful tools that take just too much damn time to learn.02:38
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krzysz00i can't ping on a usb network setup from my nokia n800 to my ubuntu jaunty pc02:39
jaemkrzysz00: how do you have it set up?02:40
jaemdid you follow a specific guide?02:40
krzysz00the "USB networking" wiki page02:42
krzysz00i have a wireless card on eth1 btw02:42
jaemgive me a moment02:42
divide_by_zerogst-launch-0.10 dsppcmsrc ! autoaudiosink02:42
divide_by_zeroisn't that fun???02:42
jaemI don't have a Jaunty box handy at the moment, but I've been doing this for a while :P02:42
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jaemkrzysz00; what are your IP settings on both ends?02:43
krzysz00host: (real lan; ip: gateway: (usb0: tablet: ip
jaemkrzysz00: what's the output of the route command on the host?02:46
krzysz00192.168.2.0     *        U     0      0        0 usb002:46
krzysz00192.168.1.0     *        U     2      0        0 eth102:46
krzysz00link-local      *          U     1000   0        0 usb002:46
krzysz00default         Wireless_Broadb         UG    0      0        0 eth102:46
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jaemI've never had that link-local entry, although networking isn't my forte, so it may be fine02:48
GeneralAntillesPS3 Slim looks nice. Too bad the PS3 still doesn't have any games.02:50
krzysz00wonder what's going on02:52
jaemkrzysz00: I'm not entirely sure, and I have to go any minute now02:53
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krzysz00my maemo usb networking beetween a nokia n800 and a ubuntu jaunty pc can you help?03:07
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zerojayPCGeneralAntilles: The PS3 has a lot of great games.03:15
zerojayPCGeneralAntilles: The main problem with the PS3 Slim, at least from my point of view... can't install Linux on it. :/03:15
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GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, yeah, I'm not sure I care so much about that.03:28
GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, but most of the great games are on the 360 anyway.03:28
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zerojayPCTwo years ago, I would have understood.03:33
GeneralAntillesA half-dozen games probably isn't a good enough justification to drop $300.03:34
zerojayPCAgain, that comment would have been valid 2 years ago.03:34
zerojayPCPS3's got a ton of great exclusive games now.03:34
GeneralAntillesOK, enlighten me.03:34
zerojayPCI've got better things to do with my time tonight.03:35
GeneralAntillesSorry, not being combative, I really would love to see a list.03:35
zerojayPCI'm hearing people talking about verifying a ton of bugs on the Maemo 5 SDK... I must be missing something since I don't really see anything I can check in the SDK.03:35
GeneralAntillesI don't pay much attention to the PS3 because of that whole 2-years-ago thing.03:36
zerojayPCWhat whole two years ago thing?03:36
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GeneralAntillesLack of compelling exclusive titles, massively inflated price.03:37
zerojayPCYeah, I can understand that.03:37
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zerojayPCAnyways, are people just testing 3rd party apps with the SDK... because unless I'm blind, I don't really see anything else that I can run except for the app manager.03:38
GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, yeah, should be some stuff in Extras.03:38
zerojayPCBut none of the main apps are included in the SDK then? Media player, the browser... nothing?03:39
GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, no closed-source stuff.03:40
zerojayPCSo there's nothing really to do then.03:40
zerojayPCTab doesn't work to switch text fields? Ugh.03:41
GeneralAntillesBleh, lot of Wii games I need to catch up on.03:41
zerojayPCThere's only been 1 Wii game I've wanted to play.03:42
zerojayPCNo... 2.03:42
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zerojayPCRed Steel 2 and Punchout.03:42
zerojayPCWhat a mistake that was.03:42
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GeneralAntillesSee, I don't have this bizarre hate against the Nintendo 3D titles.03:42
GeneralAntillesPerhaps since the 64 was more my childhood than the NES or SNES03:42
zerojayPCIt's not bizarre hate. They're just plain boring for the most part.03:42
zerojayPCMost of the wii games.03:43
zerojayPCIncluding my own.03:43
GeneralAntillesBut, personally, I found Twilight Princess to be one of the best games I've ever played.03:43
GeneralAntillesThat sounds like a personal problem, honestly. ;)03:43
zerojayPCWell... you picked out the 1 series Nintendo's done in 3d that I really do have a hate for now, lol03:43
zerojayPCZelda's a game that really didn't work in 3d and still hasn't. None of them feel like Zelda to me... just a generic 3d adventure given a 3rd party Zelda skin... too bad, I loved the older ones.03:44
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zerojayPCMario worked out better in 3d... but feels like it's repeating itself too much.03:45
GeneralAntillesThat I'd agree with03:45
zerojayPCBasically just Mario 64 with better graphics and a new gimmick now.03:45
GeneralAntillesMario Galaxy mostly feels like Mario 64 in space03:45
zerojayPCMario 64 is still one of my favorite games of all time.03:45
GeneralAntillesAlthough they got really creative with a lot of the gameplay mechanics.03:45
zerojayPCBut when I see Sunshine and Galaxy... I shouldn't be able to pick out recycled animations from Mario 64 still.03:46
GeneralAntillesIt was one of those games where you really go "Wow, I've never seen that before"03:46
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GeneralAntillesAll of the 3D Zeldas are in my top-10 list.03:46
zerojayPCYeah, it was different. I liked Galaxy because it did something very different.. but I wasn't a huge fan.03:47
zerojayPCThe 3d Zeldas were really the beginning of the end of my love for Nintendo.03:47
GeneralAntillesIt wasn't nearly as charming as Mario 6403:47
GeneralAntilles3D Metroid I love.03:47
GeneralAntillesCorruption was fantastic.03:47
zerojayPCMetroid Prime is a great series.03:47
zerojayPCThat worked out quite well.03:47
GeneralAntillesI'm sorry to hear that, because Ocarina is 1 or 2 for me.03:48
zerojayPCOcarina... yeah, pretty much made me feel like i was playing an adventure game staring Quacky McFuckduck and Nintendo just decided to reskin it before release. lol03:48
zerojayPCMassive disappointment.03:49
zerojayPCMario Kart 64... an even greater disappointment.03:49
zerojayPCMario Kart could have been much better if it wasn't so SLOW.03:50
GeneralAntillesAh, those two games were my childhhod.03:50
zerojayPCF-Zero 64 was really awesome, loved it.03:50
GeneralAntillesPlus Smash03:50
zerojayPCPilotwings 64 was also pretty good.03:50
zerojayPCSmash was cool until people started trying to play it seriously. lol03:50
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GeneralAntillesYeah, that too.03:50
GeneralAntillesMelee I had to stop playing because all of my friends started playing in tournaments.03:51
GeneralAntillesI just couldn't compete anymore.03:51
zerojayPCIt's a fun game to play and I absolutely loved all the japanese Nintendo references only I seemed to get.03:51
GeneralAntillesSeptember 2nd03:51
GeneralAntillesEverybody got their wallets ready?03:51
zerojayPCThat's what his twitter said... that's not release date, but the announcement by Nokia.03:51
GeneralAntillesThe whole idea seems to be having the release closely follow the announcement.03:52
zerojayPCYeah, wouldn't be surprised if it was right at Maemo Summit.03:52
GeneralAntillesI'm done with this platform if they don't ship by the Summit.03:53
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zerojayPCI wouldn't mind if it ships a little afterwards if I get to go to the Summit this year.03:53
zerojayPCI say that now, of course.03:54
zerojayPCBecause I know I'll be just as impatient after getting my hands on it.03:54
zerojayPCWell, I hope so, anyways.03:54
zerojayPCJust not sure I'm feeling the whole "I have gigantic fucking fingers and can't read!" Fremantle UI.03:55
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GeneralAntillesNokia has managed to pound all of the enthusiasm and optimism out of my.03:55
GeneralAntillesI have a feeling I'm about where you were last year. . . .03:55
zerojayPCA bad place, that's for sure.03:56
zerojayPCWish it never happened.03:56
zerojayPCIt was chasing a carrot on a stick in the worst way.03:56
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zerojayPCIn a way, it's one of the reasons why I really want to go.03:57
zerojayPCTo the Summit.03:57
zerojayPCYes, that too.03:58
zerojayPCBut to also see Quim.03:58
zerojayPCAnd maybe whomever was responsible for that whole clusterfuck.03:58
zerojayPCHad a good time at last year's?03:59
GeneralAntillesDidn't go.04:00
GeneralAntillesHad other obligations.04:00
zerojayPCYeah, might not be able to... don't know.04:00
zerojayPCMy company asked me to move from Quebec to Halifax to help start up a new office.04:01
zerojayPCAround October/November.04:01
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zerojayPCMy boss is pretty leinent though.04:01
zerojayPCMy wife, on the other hand... heh.04:02
GeneralAntillesGot friends up in Halifax. Nice place.04:02
zerojayPCShe's going to be giving me guilt trips. lol04:02
zerojayPCI was born there, but haven't been back there since birth... always been in Montreal, Quebec or the US, so I'm interested in checking it out.04:02
zerojayPCProblem is that the company decided to tell me about this on July 2nd.04:03
zerojayPCThe day after my year lease renewed.04:03
zerojayPCSo between now and November... I have no clue what is going to happen. lol04:03
zerojayPCIf I get sponsorship, I'll find a way to make it happen.04:04
zerojayPCYou'll be there this year?04:04
GeneralAntillesPlanning on it.04:05
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divide_by_zeroanyone here has worked with pygst?04:20
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Macermatchbox seems like it will be more of a learning curve than i thought05:23
Macerif i could find  a good theme to download . that would be neet :)05:23
Macerbut i don't know how themes work in matchbox05:24
Macernor do i really want to take the time to figure it out heh05:24
* Macer switches to fluxbox05:24
zakkmMacer: fluxbox would suck :P05:27
zakkmget like xfce with one panel or something ;P05:27
zakkmuse mer's fvwm config.. in gentoo05:27
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Macerfluxbox isn't that bad :-P05:31
Macerif you config it correctly05:32
zakkmyo hey its my favourite window manager05:32
zakkmjwm , ratpoison, openbox.. can goto hell05:32
Macerit's just that i need something working now and don't want to go through the learning curve for matchbox05:32
zakkmdesktop wise.. i wouldnt use anything that isnt fluxbox.. in terms of lightweight05:32
Macerlike if i could just download and install a theme05:32
zakkmbut on the tablet..05:32
Macerand add it to ~/.matchbox/themes05:32
zakkmits not useful05:32
Macerand just run matchbox-session --theme ~/.matchbox/theme/themename05:32
Macer:) that would be nice05:32
Macerwhich is how it looks like it is supposed to be done05:33
zakkmive never heard of such flag05:33
zakkmin anything05:33
Macerand i installed matchbox-themes-extras05:33
Macerone sec05:33
zakkmi believe you lol i just never came across it myself05:34
zakkmin all my linux adventures05:34
Macer The easiest way is to use matchbox-remote to change the current theme;05:35
Macermatchbox-remote -t <theme name>05:35
Maceri guess the themes are stored in xml files05:35
zakkmwhat did it look like05:35
Macerlike shit :)05:36
Macerlike twm when you first install X05:36
zakkmjust try fvwm with mer's fvwm config05:36
zakkmit would look like mer one, and be gentoo underneath?05:36
zakkmi thought you liked mer's fvwm screenie05:37
zakkmfvwm is more lightweight than fluxbox isnt it05:37
Macerhonestly don't know05:37
Macerjust got X going ;)05:37
Macerwas looking for a good wm05:37
Macergoing to mess with this for a few more minutes then go to bed05:38
Macerbut just in case i'm going to build fluxbox :)05:38
zakkmit will be qucik05:38
Macerat the very least i know fluxbox works05:38
Macernot really05:39
Maceri have to build a few deps05:39
zakkmyou should do e17 illume :)05:39
zakkmif you get that building right , that would be sickkk05:39
zakkmthe deps of fluxbox are nothing05:39
Maceryeah but running emerge on an n810 takes a while05:39
Macerit will probably take longer for emerge to run all its stuff than the actual building05:40
zakkmwhat you using for emerge05:40
zakkmemerge ___ ?05:40
Macerand it also has to go through all the configure stuff05:40
Macerzakkm: i didn't install that other one yet :-P05:40
Maceri just got everything installed monday.. right now i'm working on the config05:40
zakkmno i mean like05:40
zakkmemerge -av package... emerge -DNav ? ?05:40
Macerthere's also a bug in cups that i need to talk to slo about so he can point me to it again :)05:40
Maceri just did emerge -v fluxbox05:41
zakkmyou should always have at least av05:41
Macera just asks05:41
zakkmso you can see if it has the flags yo uwant05:41
zakkmhow many are going to compile, filesize etc05:41
Maceri just did emerge -vp05:41
Macerand looked at the flags05:41
Macerthen add them05:41
Macerbecause if i add any i'd have to run it again anyways05:41
zakkmbut then you do up arrow05:42
zakkmfor last command05:42
zakkmyou dont have to retype emerge __05:42
Macerand 3 secs of my life is saved :)05:42
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zakkmif you have a super long list , in console05:42
zakkmjust what i was taught :P05:42
Macerthen i just scroll up05:42
Macerthen again. there's  always --newuse05:42
Macerwhich i think i'm honestly going to have to run on world soon05:43
zakkmthats only if you change stuff though05:43
Macerwhich i have05:43
Macerand i'm not sure if i missed some pkgs haha05:43
Macerah well :)05:43
zakkmdo it when your 100% done05:43
zakkmyou should add -D too05:43
hipitihopanyone know the status of maemo on the freerunner ?05:43
Macer-D ?05:43
zakkmhipitihop: maemo on freerunner, ... mer you mean?05:43
zakkmmaemo wont support freerunner05:44
hipitihopzakkm: yes05:44
zakkmit works fine doesnt it?05:44
zakkm <--- bottom "rootfs for neo freerunner"05:44
hipitihopzakkm: I don't know I guess that is why I'm asking, last time I checked I thought there was work to be done including using fso etc.05:44
zakkmthey all have work to be done05:45
zakkmeven the nokia still has alot missing05:45
zakkmnever going to be finished though05:45
zakkmwell, distros dont get finished.. they always work in progress :P05:45
hipitihopzakkm: indeed :-) ... it looks like I'm in the wrong channel, should I be in #mer ?05:45
zakkmwell everyone thats in mer is here05:46
zakkmand vice versa mostly05:46
Macerzakkm: at least i can use console05:46
zakkmi wanted to05:46
zakkmheres the plan, you come in october for linuxfest ontario, and you let me use your n810 kk? :)05:46
zakkmi never seen one in person05:46
Macerit is actually pretty nice05:46
Macergood res05:46
zakkmeveryone i seen has been n800 /77005:47
zakkmgood res?05:47
zakkmits the same res05:47
zakkmits just formfactor05:47
Macerfor a console05:47
Macerthe fb works well05:47
zakkmi wanted it :(05:47
Macerwith its raped fb module haha05:47
zakkmany chance your near toronto , canada ? :)05:47
Macerim in chicago05:48
zakkmoh yes right i knew that05:48
Macerontario would probably be 10 hrs by car05:48
zakkmits a good thing your kid likes roadtrips eh? :)05:48
Macerno he doesnt05:48
Macerwe always fly05:48
zakkmhey man dont complain its toronto... and if your driving your be passing niagara falls05:49
zakkmseeing 2 of the 7 wonders of the world05:49
Maceri can  go to google images05:49
Macerwaterfalls are just running water05:49
zakkmbut then you dont get to see me drool all over your tablet :)05:49
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hipitihopzakkm: so that fr image, does it now have phone and sms working ?05:49
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zakkmneo runner is a phone, i doubt it05:49
Macerjust sell the n800 for like 10005:49
zakkmi would go with no , but im not the expert05:50
Macerand get an n81005:50
zakkmMacer: i been tryingg and im brokee05:50
zakkmi work like once every 3 weeks05:50
Macerthats rough05:50
zakkmjust lately05:50
Maceronce i get cups going05:51
zakkmyou can wireless print mail :)05:51
Macerim going to try oo05:51
zakkmill start a print server :D05:51
zakkmyou can print stuff to me :)05:51
zakkmsorry, bit drunk05:51
Macerover a vpn05:51
zakkmvpn, just print server05:51
zakkmno need for vpn05:51
Maceri want to use my vpn05:52
Macerif i could do that05:52
zakkmgot a friend getting me the Snow leopard 10a433 server edition disc :P05:52
Macerno zfs05:52
zakkmso what05:52
zakkmi need quicktime server :P05:52
zakkmbought a new webcam hah off ebay05:52
zakkmwanna see?05:52
Macernot in x yet05:53
Macerand no browser05:53
Macerlying down05:53
zakkmcompile links with graphic use flag05:53
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zakkmand get uhh05:53
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Macerthere is a graphics flag for links?05:54
Macerfor fb?05:54
zakkmare you kidding me05:54
zakkmof course05:54
zakkmyou never used links -g ?05:54
zakkmare you serious05:54
Macerhonestly never did05:54
zakkmits like links.. as a app, works in frame buffer though05:55
zakkmand has proper color, picture support and all05:55
Macerthat sounds awesome05:55
zakkmtis why i want a n810 :(05:55
Macermakes me wonder why i need x05:55
zakkmlinks -g , cplay , irssi with jabber05:55
zakkmand mplayer05:55
zakkmyou really dont need X05:55
zakkmwell, your run out of consoles05:55
Maceri need it for ooffice05:56
zakkmlol you couldnt run all in console05:57
zakkmit would be lightweight tho05:57
Macerdont think that would work05:57
zakkmit wont05:57
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zakkmit requires X :P05:58
zakkmhave dillo too :) great browser, tried in mer05:58
Macerand i am not sure about gpm support for the touchscreen either05:58
zakkmcant type though cause its not gtk205:58
zakkmuse flag gpm05:58
zakkmand then it will give you touchscreen in console?05:58
zakkmtheres others i think but yeah05:58
Macerjust started05:58
zakkmhave you used gentoo before?05:59
zakkmlike desktop or something05:59
Macer2 yrs ago05:59
zakkmoh nice06:00
Macerused it quite a bit06:00
zakkmi dont get why you guys didnt make a binhots for some things06:00
zakkmall tablets are the same, might as well have a binhost for some stuff06:00
Macerthen i used fbsd, and now opensolaris06:00
zakkmgtk+ , X and such06:00
Macerzakkm: dunno, never did that in gentoo06:00
zakkmi meant for tablet06:01
zakkmso installs dont take so long06:01
MacerLuke-Jr has one06:01
zakkmlike some stuff like pidgin..  that ppl change by use flags.. so you dont06:01
Macerhavent used it tho06:01
Macernot my project06:01
zakkmbut Xorg .. that wont change, thats hardware specific choices06:01
zakkmsave alot on install time06:01
Maceryah, i asked him about that06:02
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Macernokia stuff cant be in the tarball06:02
Macerlic problem06:02
zakkmnot the tarball06:02
zakkma repository .. binhost = binary repository06:02
zakkmnon official :P06:03
Macermight be a lic problem there too06:03
Macerneed to have sr available06:03
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zakkmgentoo can be binary, it doesnt have to be source , it just ruins the point06:03
Macerare there use flags for arm things06:03
zakkmthose are cxxflags and cflags.06:04
zakkmcpu specifics06:04
Macerno arm mmx06:04
zakkmit wouldnt change anything06:04
zakkmand the cflag would do that06:04
zakkmwith or without use flag06:04
Macerok, sleep06:05
Macerwill continue tomorrow06:05
Macerneed gkrellm2 too06:05
Macerwonder how well it works with tablet06:05
zakkmit was uhh06:06
Macerfor sensors06:06
zakkmin penguinbaits port of something he had it06:06
zakkmbut it ran inside maemo as a chroot though, so thats different06:06
Macerbattery at least06:06
zakkmdoes it have battery support?06:06
zakkmgentoo port06:06
Macerbme-client works06:06
zakkmso then it will work fine06:07
zakkmomg why cant i finish this beer06:07
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zakkmsmallest amount left idk cant seem to chu git06:09
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GeneralAntillesGoddamn Tegra.06:42
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* man_in_shack waves09:03
man_in_shackhow would you get a pygtk app to respond to the fullscreen button?09:03
qwerty12_N810Google "pymaemo tutorial", click the first result, and find "key-press-event"09:05
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man_in_shackhelpful as always :D09:09
man_in_shacki've now got a fullscreenable big red button :D09:10
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man_in_shackslightly dithered due to not enough colour definition for my images ... i'll have to fix that later :P09:11
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ron1nHey guys, this may not be the best place to ask, but do you have any information on a next gen tablet? Possibly using maemo 5 I just heard about?09:34
roope:D it is either a very good place or a very bad place to ask.09:37
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roopeperhaps try reading forums for the latest speculation.09:37
roopethere's plenty of chatter there.09:38
zakkmof what?09:38
roopeMaemo future stuff.09:39
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RST38hSo quiet...Not discussing the screenshots, are we? =)09:42
* timeless_mbp considers discussing suggested forms of torture09:43
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* zakkm wants to hear about different forms of torture09:45
StsN810_heh, i just get more sure i want a tablet by those09:45
zakkmRX-51 ones?09:45
zakkmMorning StsN81009:46
Luke-Jris anyone else here seriously considering getting rid of and ceasing usage of computers?09:46
Luke-Jror just me?09:46
StsN810_maemo5 is more accurate to say09:46
StsN810_luke-jr: i have that feeling often09:46
zakkmStsN810_: installed mer 0.16testing2 btw, and realized i dont have linux anymore to try usb networking09:46
Luke-JrStsN810_: really?09:47
StsN810_zakkm, wait for t309:47
MacerLuke-Jr: your keymaps don't work in X huh?09:47
zakkmestimated time frame of release?09:47
Luke-JrMacer: shrug09:47
Maceri' m stuck without any fn characters again :(09:47
zakkmsorry summer nearing end, trying to calendar mark stuff09:47
Macerdid i miss a step?09:47
StsN810_zakkm, today09:47
zakkmoh wow cool09:47
zakkmthanks :)09:48
RST38hzakkm: How about giving you RX-51 running WinMo?09:48
RST38hHeya Sts, Macer09:48
zakkmi love windows mobile? :)09:48
zakkmfriend has a htc touch with windows mobile, i like it09:48
zakkmhate typing but yeah :P09:49
zakkmwindows mobile is sick09:49
StsN810_luke-jr: i occasionally subscribe to the butlerian jihad thoughts09:49
RST38hSts: Which ones?09:50
zakkmdoesnt make more of a tablet OS though, its more of a phone/pda09:50
StsN810_rst38h, thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of the human mind"09:51
infobotStsN810_ meant: rst38h, thou shalt not make a machine in a likeness of the human mind"09:51
RST38hSts: Ah, that...09:53
Luke-Jrwhat do computers have in common with the human mind? :/09:53
StsN810_and how repulsed by how guided and controlled by machines they had become :P09:53
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RST38hSts: I would be more worried about human minds degenerating to machine state nowadays09:53
Luke-JrI'm mostly just frustrated with the low quality of programmers I think09:54
Luke-Jrsure, there are exceptions, but every OS has at least a significant part in crappy code09:54
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MacerLuke-Jr: is there somewhere i can find out the keymappings for the n810 and how to change them in X?09:55
slonopotamushello, maemo09:55
RST38hLuke: Have you ever done computer programming?09:56
JaffaRST38h: Not much to say which hasn't already been said on tmo (about 6,000,000,000 times)09:56
Maceri have fluxbox going09:56
Macerit's actually not too bad on the tablet :)09:56
Maceronce i get like a tranparent term going and background and stuff09:56
Macerit will be pretty awesome09:57
slonopotamusMacer, and matchbox?09:57
Macerslonopotamus: where was that cups bug again? i'm about to emerge it09:57
Macerslonopotamus: i just got that installed a little while ago09:57
Maceri have to learn how to make it look better than ths stock09:57
RST38hJaffa: Well, the original Russian blog entry does have a few details that Google Translate chewed up09:57
slonopotamusMacer, google: gentoo bug cups cflags09:57
Macerslonopotamus: i tried that but i'll try again09:57
zakkmMacer: get rxvt-unicode and start it with "urxvt -tr +sb -fg white"09:58
JaffaRST38h: Ah, of course. Care to provide a decent translation?09:58
Macerslonopotamus: yeah. i did that already09:58
Macerbut get a bunch of everything else and now what i was looking for :)09:58
JaffaBits I remmeber "more screenshots to come", "full preview on announce day", "best device of 2009"09:59
Macerok thanks09:59
Maceri'll book mark it09:59
slonopotamusMacer, found by 'gentoo bugzilla cups cflags'09:59
Macerand start emerging things with cups support after it's installed09:59
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Macerlet me man xmodmap10:00
RST38hJaffa: Yea, I have just got to a real computer after a few days, going to post the decent translation in a moment10:00
Macerand work on getting this damn kb to work like it does in the console10:00
Macerthen i'll be set10:00
slonopotamusMacer, that was with cups-1.3.10-r1. maybe newer versions magically got fixed, dunno10:00
Macercups and an office app are top of the to do list10:01
Maceri'm sure something like that would have to be10:01
Macerthat is a pretty major bug :)10:01
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slonopotamusMacer, i suggest trying 1.3.11 before patching10:02
Macerfile not found10:02
Macer /lib/ no version information available10:03
Maceri think thats when i had a conflict of interest between e2fsprogs10:03
slonopotamusthat's an old story10:03
slonopotamusthey got split in e2fsprogs + e2fsprogs-libs10:04
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Macerwhy would they do something like that? :)10:05
Maceri know like there is one that is part of linux-utils10:05
Maceror something like that10:05
Macerand the other is part of e2fsprogs10:05
Maceror whatever it's called10:05
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slonopotamusMacer, does emerge -vpuND world system resolve conflict?10:07
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Macerlet me see10:09
Maceri think i actually unemerged e2fsprogs just to install X or something10:09
Maceri forgot what it was10:09
Macerjust as a temp fix then remerged it later10:09
Macerwhich is fine as long as i don't check the hd when it boots haha10:10
Macerbut bad if the fs is broken :)10:10
Maceri know why it screwed up but yeah. i don't have any conflicts with that slonopotamus10:12
Macerwow that's going to be a very long build10:13
Macerwhen i built a lot of stuff i used the unstable branch  in the beginning then changed the flag10:15
* Macer puts his n810 on the charger 10:15
Macerit's going to be doing this for like 10 days haha10:15
RST38hWhoever wanted exact translation of Eldar Murtazin's post, here, feed:
slonopotamusMacer, you don't have to build all that10:18
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Macerslonopotamus: going to anyways10:20
Macerjust to make sure the unnecessary unstable branch stuff is removed10:21
Macerminus the stuff in unmask and keywords10:21
MacerRST38h: does it show how to get sound working in a gentoo install on a tablet? :)10:21
Maceri was reading the sound on tablet stuff10:21
Maceror sound in deblet.. seems kind of a pain10:22
Luke-JrMacer: btw, Deblet =~ Mer10:22
Stskeepsmer sound is actually easier, heh10:22
RST38hMacer: No, but the solution is very simple anyway10:23
MacerRST38h: yah? have a link?10:23
RST38hMacer: 1) Remove Gentoo 2) Install Diablo10:23
Macerwhy do that? i can just boot to the internal SD ;)10:24
Macerinstead of the external10:24
Macerbut i want it working in gentoo10:24
RST38hBut in general, I am not sure why run Gentoo on the tablet10:24
Maceri'm about to try to build openoffice or at least abiword with cups support10:24
Macerthat will be great10:24
RST38hBuild on the tablet? :)10:24
RST38hAh, the adventurous one10:24
Macerit works fine10:24
Macera little slow but still not too bad10:25
Luke-JrRST38h: Macer's tried Maemo, Mer, and Gentoo; according to him, Gentoo works the best ;)10:25
Macerno. maemo works the best.. but is being abandoned and is difficult to get cups support in hildon apps10:25
Macergentoo is almost as good if i get the sound working ;)10:25
Luke-JrMacer: the overall-best? :P10:25
RST38hLuke: I wonder what he uses to measure this "best" thing...10:25
MacerRST38h: i consider it being the best if i can use it like an actual laptop with a working ui and print over a vpn ;)10:26
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Macerso i guess maemo and gentoo are tied only because maemo has the hardware all working stock10:26
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Macerif it had printing support built into some apps10:26
Maceri'd keep maemo4 forever heh10:26
Macerif it had a stripped down openoffice. it would be godlike10:27
Macergentoo makes it feel more like a slow laptop tho :)10:27
Macerwhich is absolutely awesome10:27
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RST38hMacer: Urgh10:28
Macerand the thing about gentoo is once you finally get it to where you want it to be10:28
Maceryou don't really need to build that much more :) as long as it does what you want10:28
* RST38h hopes Nokia has seen the light and is working on adding SOME office support to Maemo right now10:28
Macerlike print from an office app heh10:28
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Maceryeah. that's really all it is lacking10:28
RST38hThe RX-51 looks like a business device, if it misses core business apps people will be disappointed10:28
Macermaemo4 would be beyond the best if it had office type apps that could print10:28
Macermy n95 could print to bt printers :)10:29
RST38hI am sure you can piece together printing support even without cups10:29
RST38hMy E70 can print to BT printers :)10:29
Macerbut the cups is necessary10:29
RST38hAs long as they are made by HP anyway10:29
Macerto print to network printers10:29
Macerover a vpn ;)10:29
RST38hMacer: Piece together some kind of a gateway10:29
Macerthat'd be pimp10:29
Maceri guess that is why they marketed it as an "internet tablet"10:30
Macerso it wouldn't have been seen as an office device10:30
Macerjust something to get on the net with10:30
RST38hSurely RX-51 will be called a different name ;)10:30
Macerso people wouldn't be disappointed when they found out10:30
Macer"ah well.. i guess i expected too much from an internet tablet"10:30
RST38hOk, back to suffering another sunstroke on the beach =(10:32
MacerRST38h: yah. if nokia actually does finally release a new "tablet"10:32
Maceri'd buy it in a heartbeat10:32
Macerbut i'm sure i'd still use my n810 for a lot of stuff if i can get an awesome gentoo install going10:33
ron1nroope: sorry for the delayed gratitude, but thanks =]10:33
RST38hMacer: RX-51 will be a tablet, as far as we are all concerned, you have seen the pictures10:33
RST38hMacer: If you do not like the baseband chip, do not use it10:33
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roopeI don't really know anymore how people define a "tablet" vs. a non-tablet.10:33
RST38hroope: Not N800 = non-tablet ;)10:34
qwerty12_N810Can it make calls using a GSM network? =)10:34
Corsacwhen is maemo summit?10:34
RST38hroope: In reality you will hear all kinds of justification (no dual SD slot, no dpad, phone capability) but if you look behind these you will see "Not N800 => not a tablet"10:34
roope"Not what I was expecting" => "Not a tablet". ;)10:35
RST38hroope: It is like those iPhone folks who always complain how NIT is not an iPhone10:35
RST38hroope: The only way to satisfy them is basically make NIT into an iPhone with ALL features present, all the way to AppStore10:36
Macerwell. i was more so distinguishing between "tablet" and "internet tablet"10:36
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RST38hroope: Only when Steve Jobs' patented toilet plunger is ALL the way up their collective ass, only then will they accept that "NIT is an iPhone now" :)10:37
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roopeAnyways. I think many people will be generally happy with the rx-51.10:41
roopeAt least there are a number of things that I am generally happy with it. :)10:41
ron1nwow, so the "N900" is like the N97 without Symbian. That really sounds prefect.10:41
pupnik_i think RST38h has summarized popular expectations well10:41
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roopeIt shouldn't be a faster horse, it should be a faster N800.10:42
pupnik_i am basically happy a major manufacturer is making linux tablets and phones10:43
pupnik_that overrides the whine-reflex for me10:43
ron1npupnik_: I felt the same joy when the 770 was introduced.10:43
pupnik_would be more awesome of course to have a whole range of omap3 tablets and phones running linux10:44
pupnik_or maemo10:44
ron1nthats why I chose an android handset this time around10:44
Razumihinor hate everything and die alone :(10:44
ron1npupnik_: I found theres much open source love in the N series of handsets10:45
ron1nthe latest one however, the N97, has just received awful reviews. I couldn't justify the purchase.10:46
pupnik_why awful?10:46
pupnik_old apps?10:46
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ron1nwell, apparently the latest version of Symbian is really unresponsive and buggy10:47
ron1nand firmware v1.2 hasn't really done much to fix the stability issues.10:47
roopeI'd personally recommend the E72.10:47
roopeInstead of the N97.10:47
ron1nroope: the E series always seemed underpowered to me10:47
rooperonin: E72 has the 600mhz processor.10:48
RazumihinHmm... i don't think that n97 is that buggy really. Some of the applications like facebook are, but in overall n97 crashes couple of times a week.10:48
roopeIt's _really_ not underpowered. :)10:48
RazumihinIf you compare that to windows mobile crashing once a day i think it's not bad.10:48
ron1nroope: I don't mean in brute force, I mean in multimedia capabilities. The focus of the E series was more business oriented.10:49
qwerty12_N810N97 was a rushed job due to the developers knowing that their work would be obsolete with Rover ;P10:49
RazumihinMain problem with n97 and symbian 5th is the limited software availability, you just can't get  decent memo program to it.10:49
ron1nRazumihin: yeah, this is only the second device to ship with it, its still young10:49
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Heh :)10:49
rooperonin: Yes, kind of. Then again, E72 has the 3.5" headphone jack, it runs mp3:s, browser runs flash etc.10:50
Razumihinqwerty12_N810: might be.10:50
roopeI think it's pretty versatile already.10:50
pupnik_i would be scared of a 3.5" headphone jack10:50
roope3.5mm :)10:50
ron1nI loved it on my N9510:50
RazumihinI still think that as a phone n97 is pretty decent, it has great calll quality and you get used to the keyboard.10:50
ron1nRazumihin: I longed for a touchscreen device that had a physical keyboard and ran symbian10:51
ron1nbut being the second device to run Symbian 5, it just seems to good to be true right now10:51
ron1nI would love even more for user upgradeable operating systems in the N and E series haha10:52
JaffaRST38h: thanks for the translation10:53
RazumihinI'm still waiting for people to understand that their phones are really small sized arm computers and they should have the possibility to choose their operating system.10:53
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ron1nRazumihin: I agree who heartedly10:55
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ron1nI quickly found out the difference between a mobile OS and a full featured OS when I installed android on my eee pc.10:56
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ron1nit just felt a whole lot less useful. Then I thought about doing it the other way around.10:56
ron1nSo the first thing I do when I get my HTC magic, is try to install debian on it.10:56
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StsN810_is it hacked yet? :P10:58
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ron1nStsN810_: Yeah they've managed to root it =D11:01
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StsN810_heh, but can they replace kernel?11:02
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ron1nStsN810_: I don't doubt they (
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ron1nThey managed to do it on the G1 (htc dream)11:03
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ron1nI really don't like the idea of using exploits and backdoors to gain root access to a device I own though.11:04
ron1nalas, the price you pay for Linux with a 3G radio.11:04
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StsN810_so rx-51 will be bliss11:06
ron1nI would have love to stick around for it, but I couldn't wait. My original model N-gage kicked the bucket a few months ago.11:07
ron1nI couldn't wait a day longer, not even for the N97 fw2.011:07
Jaffaron1n: The price you pay for Linux with a 3G radio is about to change (as StsN810_ says)11:08
ron1nJaffa: and I can't wait =]11:09
Corsacroope: but e72 is not yet available :/11:09
ron1nI have just been without a handset for so long. I keep checking engadget and waiting for the next new thing XD11:09
Corsac(and yeah, e72 looks nice but *if* rover comes soon enough, I think between it and e72 the choice will not last long11:10
CorsacI mean, symbian vs. maemo11:10
ron1nI think maemo, once matured, has the power to replace symbian.11:11
ron1nnevermind, I take that back. Its the same thing as Debian vs Android.11:13
ron1nFull os vs mobile os.11:13
* timeless_mbp pokes andre__ 11:15
timeless_mbpandre__ could you upstream 4101/4103?11:15
* qwerty12_N810 <3's HildonStackableWindow11:15
StsN810_qwerty12, saw my freemantle shot?11:17
qwerty12_N810No, where is it? :)11:17
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JaffaStsN810_: "Freemantle" is just too confusing ;-)11:18
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StsN810_jaffa, intentional :>11:18
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Hehe, nice. Now all you need to do is tie wazd to a chair and get him to make you a dark theme ;)11:18
timeless_mbproope: fwiw, i tried the browser yesterday for the first time, i was actually happy11:19
timeless_mbproope: you should visit and play11:19
timeless_mbpStskeeps: could you fix something so it shows your device name instead of "" above installed applications?11:20
timeless_mbpit's really annoying :)11:20
StsN810_timeless_mbp: probably :)11:24
qwerty12_N810device name is just a bluez thing11:24
Macer It is like those iPhone folks who always complain how NIT is not an iPhone11:25
StsN810_if i find out where HAM gets it..11:25
Macerof course it's not an iphone :)11:25
timeless_mbpStsN810_: the console gives an error hinting at where it can't get it11:25
Macerwow. this thing is going to be going for a very long time11:26
* Macer goes back to sleep11:26
Macerheh. just goes to show why this should be done right the first time :)11:26
qwerty12_N810'export DEFAULT_ADAPTER=/org/bluez/hci0 && dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=org.bluez $DEFAULT_ADAPTER org.bluez.Adapter.SetName "string:<name"' works in Maemo11:26
Macerhow do you paste in screen?11:27
Maceri got the copy part down :) but i don't know how to paste in it11:27
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: It changes the name shown in the File manager/Application manager11:28
timeless_mbpdoes it work in mer?11:28
qwerty12_N810No idea11:28
Macer qwerty12_N810> No idea11:30
Maceroh. no kidding heh11:30
Macerit's ctrl a [ and ]11:30
Macerawesome. i'm sure that will come in handy11:30
Macerslonopotamus: around?11:31
Maceroh nevermind11:31
Maceryou said you don't do n810 stuff? :) was just wondering if you had keymaps to use with xmodmap11:32
MacerLuke-Jr said i needed to use that to get Fn characters11:32
slonopotamusMacer, no, i don't, nothing to test on.11:32
Maceroh. ok.11:33
Maceri guess i can always just install the soft keyboard11:33
Macerwonder if there is a way to get the soft keyboard on the bottom of fluxbox in a line with nothing but the special characters and numbers :)11:33
Macerthat would be pretty awesome11:33
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slonopotamusMacer, you'll have troubles with Fn key11:34
Maceryah. but i fi can get the menu key to do it like Luke-Jr has it in the console11:35
Macerthat's fine :)11:35
slonopotamusStskeeps, did you have Fn fix for xorg, btw?11:35
slonopotamusStskeeps, or you just moved to Xomap?11:35
Macerit works great using his method in the console11:35
Maceri think i'll put mer on the internal sd later this week11:36
Macerhopefully my inability to login to the ssh was just a fluke11:37
Macersomething i did wrong maybe11:37
slonopotamusMacer, what's up with ssh?11:37
Macerslonopotamus: dunno. when i tried to login as a user.. ssh kept asking me to renew my pw11:37
slonopotamusMacer, in mer?11:38
Macerlike. i would renew it. then try to login again with the new pw. and it would ask me to do it again11:38
Macerit was weird.. yeah. in mer11:38
* slonopotamus newer saw ssh asking to renew pw11:38
Maceryeah. i don't know why it was doing that. but i'll re-install it on the internal sd once i'm done getting gnetoo going11:38
Macerif anything to try out that new wm :)11:39
StsN810_macer, RTC problem re renw11:39
StsN810_PAM bug11:40
slonopotamusMacer, btw. you'll pull in new python. don't forget to run python-updater :)11:40
Macerah i see11:40
pupnik_the priorities of my laziness are strange.  instead of writing some data down on a piece of paper, i'm reflashing the n810 so i can scp the data to it.11:40
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Macerslonopotamus: yah. i'll make sure i do11:40
Macerran into that problem before with gentoo11:40
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Maceri think it was one of the reasons i switched to fbsd for quite a while11:40
Macerthen Sts showed me nexenta... which brought me to opensolaris heh11:40
Maceri haven't looked back as far as a server goes. opensolaris kind of sucks on a desktop tho11:41
Maceri think maybe because it uses gnome... i perfer kde on a desktop if i am going to use a bloated enviroment :)11:41
* slonopotamus used fbsd 4.x... good time :)11:41
Maceri thought 4.1 was supposed to be pretty good11:42
Macerzfs support at least :)11:42
Macerlike. kernel level zfs support. the real deal11:42
Macerat least that is what i heard11:42
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Maceri didn't use it11:42
MacerStsN810_: ever see Zoolander? :)11:43
slonopotamusMacer, how i do 'emerge --depclean' in fbsd, btw?11:43
Macerwhen his father sees him as a mermaid and he runs out screaming "I'M A MERMAN!! A MERMAN!!"11:43
slonopotamusmerman :)11:44
Macerslonopotamus: don't know. never installed something i didn't need in fbsd ;)11:44
Maceri'm sure it's some make depremove in ports tree11:44
qwerty12_N810Macer: his phone was funnier :p11:44
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Macerqwerty12_N810: yeah haha11:44
Maceri like the way he flipped it open11:44
Macerlike it was a huge phone haha11:44
Macerthe movie in general was pretty funny11:45
Macer"You want to see the real underground world of male modeling..?"11:45
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Maceri just thought about the Merman part :)11:46
Macerand thought about Mer11:46
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Maceri'm on 6 of 5811:48
slonopotamusworld + system?11:48
Macerthere were a lot of upgrade11:49
Macerand a few downgrades :)11:49
Macerfrom me using the unstable branch in the beginning11:49
slonopotamusthat stage is a bit old and stable (not ~arm)11:49
Maceryeah. i changed my make.conf to use ~arm for a bit11:50
Macerbecause i got tired of adding pkgs to keywords :)11:50
Macerit's ok tho. i have to stop into the office this morning. that should kill a few hours11:50
Macerthen i guess i'll come home and take my son to the lake or something. if it's a nice enough day to go to the beach11:51
lcukmacer, someohow the thought of stskeeps and qgil in a walk off amuses me11:51
slonopotamusthere was some tool that added keywords automatically. never used it, though11:51
Macerlcuk: hahahaha11:51
lcuksomething we could arrange for the summit11:51
Macer"You want to see the real underground world of linux software development...."11:51
lcukwho would judge it tho11:52
MacerLuke-Jr would be up for it i'm sure11:52
lcuki doubt we could get bowie in time11:52
Macerdamn i forgot david bowie did that for the movie11:52
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Macerdavid bowie was the shit in the 80s heh11:52
sarowergood morning all11:52
Macerimean cmon! he was the goblin king!11:52
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sarowerCan i resize a dialog (GtkDialog) or change its position?11:53
sarowerif yes then how can i do that...11:53
saroweri have read the manual but the api does not work!11:53
sarowerany body........any idea?11:54
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lcuksince gtk is based on contents, just put more stuff in it and it will grow to accomodate.  you cannot manually resize it manually tho11:54
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lcuki tihnk theres something like a spacer element11:54
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* lcuk waves hands11:55
jrochalcuk, you can manually resize11:55
Macernew eurekas are great11:55
* Macer missed eureka11:55
lcukjrocha, then tell sarower, im happy being wrong as long as people help  :P11:55
sarowerjrocha: How can i do that?11:55
jrochato resize a widget you can pack it inside a box with the options of fill and expand set to false11:56
jrochayou use gtk_widget_set_size_request11:56
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jrochaand it will resize the widget11:56
sarowerbut if i do not pack it inside it possible?11:56
jrochawhere are you putting it?11:57
jrochaand which widget is that?11:57
pupnik_nice work on adding pkgs to maemo-extras, guys.  it's like a new tablet to see all that stuff available.11:57
sarower1 min11:57
sarowercan i paste the code here?11:57
sarowersmall amount11:57
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : , , , ,
jrochalcuk, it is true though, that there's no real freedom, it may depend on other things like other widgets packed11:58
jrochajust tell me what you wanna do11:58
pupnik_wonder how openssh package prompts user for new password11:58
saroweri am jus taking a dialog in applet11:59
sarowerlike this:11:59
sarowerdialog = gtk_dialog_new_with_buttons ("Input Status Message", NULL,11:59
sarower             GTK_DIALOG_MODAL,11:59
sarower             GTK_STOCK_OK,11:59
sarower             GTK_RESPONSE_OK, NULL);11:59
qwerty12_N810pupnik_: Ed Bartosh added a program to do so that runs in postinst :)11:59
sarowerthen doing something on it.. like adding a GtkEntry field12:00
sarowerthen gtk_widget_show_all (dialog);12:00
sarowerbut i want to resize the dialog as well as to change the position of the dialog12:01
jrochaso, you want to resize a dialog, only that?12:01
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jrochathen you should use the function I mentioned: gtk_widget_set_size_request12:02
sarowerbut gtk_widget_set_size_request does not work12:02
saroweronly height can be this api12:03
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lcukmacer, new eurekas are more about fart jokes so ive noticed12:06
pupnik_xterm in maemo-extras needs that improved (not courier) font12:06
pupnik_eh no that's the xterm that ships - nm12:06
lcukjrocha, quick fix, within his packing box cant he just add a spacer row to force the width to something12:07
lcukharder to write than to think about, something (600px,1px) for instance12:08
lcukunless theres a specific type for this kind of thing12:08
sarowerlcuk; even i do not use a packing box!12:08
jrochasarower, what do you mean  only height can be changed?12:08
lcukahh lol i thought everything within gtk ended up in a packing box12:09
jrochagtk_widget_size_request: Sets the minimum size of a widget; that is, the widget's size request will be width by height.12:09
sarowerjrocha: by using this method the height is changed of the dialog12:09
jrochasarower, yes, but so is the width12:10
lbtno packing box?12:10
lbtsarower: so inner widgets are statically positioned?12:11
sarowerjrocha: suppose i want to make the dialog 400x200, can not i do?12:11
lbtwhat happens when the virtual keyboard pops up?12:11
sarowerno not for less that diablo12:11
saroweri am using freemantle12:12
jrochathat's right12:12
jrochaof course12:12
sarowerthere is no virtual keyboard12:12
jrochausing fremantle, all you can set is the height12:12
jrochaby definition12:12
jrochasorry, I didn't know you were talking about Fremantle12:12
sarowerbut not the width12:12
lbtsarower: so it won't work on Mer then :(12:12
_berto_there's gtk_window_resize() for windows/dialogs12:13
lbtwhat about if the screen rotates?12:13
_berto_but in fremantle all dialogs use the full width of the screen12:13
jrochawhy would you want the width to be set in fremantle?12:13
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jrochaI thought you knew you couldn't, that's why I thought you were not using Fremantle12:13
sarowerthats another thing ... but i want it12:13
jrochaI don't see the point in wanting to resize a dialog's width in Fremantle12:14
sarowerno need to resize the height in Fremantle?12:15
sarowersorry width!12:15
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sarowerrestriction to change the width of dialog in Fremantle?12:15
timeless_mbphow do i get the address book stuff?12:16
timeless_mbpbug 4921 seems to indicate it exists12:16
_berto_sarower: all dialogs use the full width of the screen in fremantle12:17
jrochasarower, Fremantle takes a different approach to usability which means it restricts somethings in order to keep that usabilityr12:17
lcukdoes the app get to know the "client area" within that "full width" dialog?12:17
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lcukcos of the buttons on the side, an app cannot assume 800px12:18
lcukand does that width change based on theme12:18
timeless_mbp_berto_: the screen doesn't have to be 800 px wide in fremantle12:18
timeless_mbpand fwiw the default apis for dialogs are awful12:18
timeless_mbpbecause if your screen is 480 px wide, then there's a confirm button which eats most of the available width12:19
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_berto_that's a design decision12:19
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timeless_mbpwhat's a bad decision?12:19
timeless_mbpbeing incredibly short sighted?12:19
_berto_what's the problem in the api ?12:19
timeless_mbpfind me the api list and i'll point out the bad one12:20
timeless_mbpi think it's the list apis12:20
timeless_mbpsome sort of pannable dialog12:21
pupnik_very nice font for xterm - the original PC VGA font:
Macer6 teravolts12:21
sarowerok..... but can i set the position of the dialog. that means customizing the position of the dialog!12:21
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timeless_mbpdialogs are supposed to start from the bottom and grow up12:21
timeless_mbpif you're incredibly stupid, you can arrange for the dialog height to jump around as people try to click on a bar at the top edge of the dialog12:22
_berto_you mean if you set the dialog height by hand ?12:23
timeless_mbpdialog height grows according to contents12:23
timeless_mbpbut if you change what is visible as you change 'tabs'12:23
timeless_mbpthen bad things happen because the height fluctuates12:23
timeless_mbpplease don't do that12:23
Maceri love eureka12:24
* timeless_mbp too12:24
* timeless_mbp hasn't seen it on .fi channels in a while12:24
_berto_i think i haven't seen a dialog with its height fluctuating in fremantle12:24
_berto_do you have a test case for that ?12:24
timeless_mbpdo you have the full image or just the sdk?12:24
_berto_full image12:24
timeless_mbpit's in there :)12:25
timeless_mbpi've only used a handful of apps12:25
Macertimeless_mbp: they stopped making episodes for a long time12:25
Macersince the strike12:25
Macerthe writer strike :) they just now started releasing new ones12:25
lcukit wasnt a strike12:26
lcukthere was a containment failure in section 512:26
lcukthey had to restrict output for a wwhile12:26
jrochatimeless_mbp, you mean that when you have a shown dialog and hide stuff that are contained within it, that is height readjusts?12:28
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sarowerI am telling about positioning a dialog in freemntle. Suppose i want to set the position of a dialog at (0,0). Is it possible or not?12:31
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sarowerthen we can discuss about how we can do so!12:32
lcuksarower, a dialog is shown from bottom up, and the only way to canel is to have some space above it, so i would say,  no you cannot position a dialog at 0,012:33
lcukyou can position it at (0,screen.h-dialog.h)12:33
lcukbut thats automatic anyway12:33
sarowerThanks all12:34
_berto_you can only change its height12:35
Macerlcuk: hahahah12:35
Macerfunny thing about eureka is that they just continued season 312:36
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pupnik_jav[tab] jav[tab]12:58
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wazdheya all13:08
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VDVsxhello wazd :)13:11
VDVsxwazd, did you already stole some of the maemo5 proto's circulating in your country ? :P13:12
VDVsxwazd, I want one :)13:12
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wazdVDVsx: nah, that's not me :)13:13
VDVsxwazd, shame :(13:14
wazdVDVsx: but as I was told it's possible to get one of the proto's here since they are produced near St petersburg13:14
wazdVDVsx: and you need to have some good contacts with Nokia R&D :P13:14
VDVsxwazd, or with the truck driver ;)13:15
qwerty12_N810Lies! All one needs is a ski mask and an AK-47 :p13:15
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javispedroalready talking about the AK-47? man, they should ask everyone to wear body armor in the maemo summit.13:16
wazdqwerty12_N810: well, thats the hardcore way :)13:16
wazdjavispedro: heya{13:16
qwerty12_N810javispedro: don't worry, Nokia are safe: I won't be attending ;D13:17
qwerty12_N810wazd: :p13:17
wazdqwerty12_N810: why are you not attending? Still 5 yo or something? :D13:17
qwerty12_N810No passport and lack of time :)13:18
wazdqwerty12_N810: oh, no passport, weclome to the club :)13:18
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, LIES, you should come :P13:18
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, you are afraid of be kidnapped by nokia ;)13:19
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wazdOh my god, I rellised that I had a dream with RX-51 in it13:20
wazdI think I should call the doctor or something :D13:20
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, don't worry lardman will kidnap you anyway ;)13:21
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VDVsxwe have a plan, ahahahahah13:21
VDVsxlcuk is the mastermind :)13:22
* VDVsx hides13:22
* javispedro reads about the rover having a 6 hour battery life13:22
javispedroalso about the Rover's software being made in Russia.13:22
* lcuk wonders what hes masterminding13:23
lcukapart from a maemo fryup13:23
VDVsxlcuk, qwerty12_N810 's kidnap13:24
VDVsxto bring him to the summit13:24
lcukoh, thats easy - ill do that before the summit :P13:24
_berto_made in russia ? :)13:24
qwerty12_N810I knew I shouldn't have made all those northerner comments...13:24
lcuki really hate myself now, does  freenode have any (gulp) .net channels13:24
_berto_which part of the software?13:24
javispedrodunno _berto_, I was thinking wtf.13:25
lcuko_O searching freenode for channels with vb brings up maemo as top :D13:26
VDVsx_berto_, GTK/hildon was invented in Russia, everybody know that :P13:26
javispedroall your fault lcuk13:26
qwerty12_N810lcuk: because you're in it :p13:26
wazdwell, 6 hours of video - not too bad13:27
lcuki hate to say it, does anyone actually know of any visual studio oriented irc channels13:27
* zerojayPC boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo13:28
javispedroI know a spanish one lcuk ;)13:28
qwerty12_N810lcuk: #/dev/null13:28
lcukthats not really useful unless you till translate13:28
lcukive got a silly question that is annoying me13:28
javispedronobody said VB.NET was going to be easy13:28
lcukits not the langue13:28
suihkulokkiI'm sure there is a mono channel that can be used .net in general13:29
lcuknor working in it - i can code quite happily13:29
lcukits project management13:29
VDVsxlcuk, vb list of channels:
lcuki cant find a way to open a single project without opening the whole damned solution and colleagues files13:29
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lcukVDVsx, thanks, that worked13:29
javispedro~curse tinyurl13:29
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, tinyurl !13:30
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lcuk:D tinyurl might know how to do my stuff then13:30
Stskeeps'lo tigert13:30
javispedroso why does everyone have a rover save for those encourage to write for it?13:31
lcukwhy do those with rovers keep talking about them and teasing those without13:32
qwerty12_N810Why are those with Rovers not getting jacked?13:33
VDVsxWhy I don't have a rover ?13:33
lcuka cadre of attack kittens protecting houses13:33
* tigert wonders about some user interface related stuff for summit13:36
tigertI like hands-on sessions but I wonder what would be most useful..?13:36
pupnik_hi javispedro - finally tested chrono trigger.  great job.  almost smooth music.13:37
javispedroglad to hear :)13:38
pupnik_do you have a version with scaling / xsp yet?13:38
Stskeepstigert: depends on the topic i guess13:38
javispedroyep, did you install the config file?13:38
pupnik_not yet13:38
javispedro to ~/apps/13:38
javispedrothen use the fullscreen button13:38
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tigerticon-design-while-you-wait has always been popular of course :)13:38
javispedropupnik_, are you using the one on extras-devel?13:39
javispedroor the one on the forum?13:39
tigertbut having some hackfest on "lets think how your app might work with people who have large thumbs and small screen" topic maybe?13:39
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Stskeepsredesigning desktop applications for the mobile use case?13:40
tigertStskeeps: something like that13:40
pupnik_grabbed the 8/11 from your site javispedro13:40
Stskeepsthat one would be useful tbh - we have a lot of hildonization work and Qt/Maemo work coming up13:40
javispedroah, no fullscreen then13:40
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javispedrowait a bit and I'll make an updated binary (the package is outdated now too :P)13:41
pupnik_also javispedro - first test.smc version quit with ctrl-c.  now i have to kill-9 noksnes13:41
tigertStskeeps: a lot of the garage apps have really small elements13:41
javispedropupnik_, yep, that was the static-libgcc issue13:41
Stskeepstigert: "10 tricks to make your app mobile use case able"? :P13:42
tigertStskeeps: perhaps13:42
pupnik_k 8/12 testing - ty13:42
pupnik_great speed improvement on 8/12!13:42
javispedroit's the first one with frameskip13:43
pupnik_well a touch at least13:43
VDVsxtigert, there's already some submission around UI, please try to avoid topics repetition :) (eg.
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javispedro(other than fixed 1 that is)13:43
tigertStskeeps: and how to avoid forking XYZ, but instead of having a mobile ui as a subset maybe?13:43
pupnik_no start button yet javispedro ?13:43
javispedroyes, there is now13:43
javispedro take a look if you want13:43
javispedrothe syntax should be easy to understand13:44
Stskeepstigert: "using the VC in MVC to suit your application to mobile use case?" :P13:44
suihkulokkiwtf at the "expanding the tablet user base" talk proposal13:45
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RST38hrst38h 1 : 013:46
javispedrodamn its big13:46
javispedroah, it has the debug symbols13:46
VDVsxsuihkulokki, Consulting company's ;)13:46
javispedrowell, strip it if you want.13:47
* RST38h found the magic set of gprs settings13:47
tigertRST38h: predefined ones didnt work?13:47
adeusconsult abbrv. con and insult13:47
pupnik_scancode 65 = "a" javispedro ?13:48
pupnik_k ty13:48
javispedro <-- hehe13:48
RST38hvodafone, may it be taken over by mts and its logo permanently replaced by an egg, has not made it easy13:48
RST38htigert: joking?13:48
tigertRST38h: no13:48
RST38htigert: "predefined" is 12 euro / mb13:49
tigertRST38h: what settings are you talking about?13:49
tigertin your N810 or something?13:49
RST38htigert: gprs13:49
RST38htigert: does it matter?13:50
tigertI thought the price stuff depends on your contract with the operator, not about settings in the device?13:50
RST38hthat too13:50
tigertat least I just chose "my operator name" in the list and the contract defined the rest, didnt have to change anything in the device to get flatrate 3g13:51
pupnik_javispedro: 08/19 copied to /usr/bin  - launched with drnoksnes test.smc - getting a text on shell "Video: 256x239, 16 bits per pixel, windowed" and blackscreen13:51
RST38hanyways, after paying magic secret 3.50 euro fee, the price wnt down13:51
tigertwell, it was via the bluetooth + phone, but anyway13:51
tigertah ok13:51
javispedrodamn it...13:51
pupnik_hmm lemme check smth13:52
javispedroI knew I shouldn't have built whatever I had on my working copy :P13:52
pupnik_oh it's all fun13:52
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RST38hno ssh access and the tablet cannot connect to any website13:52
pupnik_works javispedro - i had left an old drnoksnes running by accident13:52
javispedroah, lol :)13:52
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Surely Vodafone cannot be the only network there?13:53
pupnik_nice job on the fullscreen, man13:53
javispedrobtw pupnik_ RST38h :  I did an oprofile session yesterday:
RST38hgoogle google google and lo and behold, the bastards have got a separate set of settings that works with nit and lets me sssh13:53
javispedroas you can see, rendering's the bottleneck.13:53
RST38honly it is secret!13:53
RST38hqwerty: one of two, i am not adventurous enough to hump the second one as well13:54
RST38hjavis: no shit sherlock13:54
RST38hjavis: need pointers?13:54
pupnik_mode7?  what game is that running?13:55
tigertRST38h: gah13:55
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javispedromkart, one of the slowest for me.13:55
tigertRST38h: one would guess pissing on the customers eye is not exactly the road to success?13:55
pupnik_k that's not a common mode, iirc13:55
pupnik_but people will want to play that13:55
tigertRST38h: how much is flatrate gprs there btw?13:55
javispedrothat function is not asm (currently generated through some cpp macros)13:56
javispedroso I guess I know where to start :P13:56
RST38htigert: i dunno, but e3.50 seems to do the job for the last 3 days13:56
pupnik_good grief :).  27-31fps in chrono trigger with sound and fullscreen atm13:56
RST38htigert: it is a monthly fee too13:57
RST38hok, this is all nice but to help javis I will need a pc. a moment javis13:57
javispedrooh, don't worry RST38h, for now I guess I just need to dedicate time for it ;)13:58
pupnik_this is really close to awesome13:58
pupnik_sample playback underruns, but at least they repeat instead of dropping out13:59
pupnik_nice job by squidge or whoever on that13:59
javispedroyep, the main loop configures the spc, but the audio thread is the one rendering13:59
javispedroaka if the audio thread needs two buffers filled but the main loop hasn't looped yet it'll just refill the buffer with the same spc state.14:00
javispedromkart is now 10/60 in game with sound, no speedhacks.14:01
javispedrono sound makes it 15/60, no sound + speedhacks makes it 20/6014:01
RST38hjavis: Could you give that oprofile results link again?14:03
tigertjavispedro: I wonder how is the battery consumption?14:03
javispedrotigert, ugly of course, unless you set very high frameskips in which case it sleeps.14:04
tigertI guess it would be hard to help that in a game where you need fps, but yeah14:04
pupnik_javispedro: what is /no-vmlinux doing?14:04
javispedrothe kernel14:04
RST38hjavis: What is it doing in linux all that time???14:04
pupnik_that looks rather high doesn't it14:04
javispedroprobably NFS, sorry.14:04
RST38hjavis: Could you kill that and see if Linux line goes away fro oprofile?14:05
javispedrokill the kernel?14:05
javispedroah sorry14:05
javispedrokill NFS14:05
RST38hno, kill the nfs or whatever is eating clock cycles14:05
javispedroyes, wait14:05
pupnik_man this CT  music puts me in a good mood14:05
* RST38h does suspect it is more like a problem with symbol resolution14:06
RST38hthose 16% should belong to the 65816 emulation14:06
javispedroRST38h, oh, I fixed those :P14:06
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javispedrothis was previously14:06
javispedrowhich made no sense of course.14:06
RST38hUmgh....Ok, stupid question: are you drawing every single frame?14:07
javispedroit shouldn't.14:07
RST38h[btw, Murtazin promised a review tonight]14:07
RST38hjavis: Please make sure it does not, you should only be drawing 30-35% of the frames14:07
javispedrowait, short-term todo buffer overflown :)14:07
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javispedro(i need to boot the nit with the oprofile kernel, so it's taking a lot)14:10
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pupnik_looks like frameskip works fine14:11
pupnik_i can load the system with other stuff and it gets jumpy14:12
RST38husing automatic frameskip is a bad idea14:12
RST38hjust set it to 30% and relax14:12
pupnik_well for games like CT, it looks like frameskip 1 (fixed) is within reach14:12
RST38hthere is absolutely no point to reach minimal frameskip14:13
RST38hyou only want frameskip to be "good enough" which is almost always 30-35%14:13
pupnik_frameskip 2 would be better for those situations where the sprite turns off alternating frames (damaged player)14:13
pupnik_i don't understand % frameskip14:13
RST38hyes, that is why you skip not every two frames of three, but you count exactly 35%14:13
wazdRST38h: heya :)14:13
RST38hpupnik: Ok, consider this:14:13
RST38hmoo, wazd, it looks like the Murtazin guy is finally spilling it14:14
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RST38hpupnik: you have got a counter that you increment by 1 on each simulated VBlank14:14
RST38hpupnik: Wait, scratch the above line :)14:15
RST38hpupnik: Make it: You have got a counter that you increment by the percentage number (let us say 35) every simulated VBlank14:15
RST38hpupnik: Every time it reaches or exceeds 100, you draw the frame and subtract 100 from the counter14:15
wazdRST38h: well, he held himself as long as he could :)14:15
RST38hpupnik: This way, you are drawing exactly 35% of frames, on the average14:16
RST38hpupnik: And because of the jitter inherent in this model, you are never going to get the problem of sprites not showing14:16
RST38hpupnik: Do you also want to know why automatic jitter control is bad?14:16
RST38hwazd: I guess photos of the actual devices made him do it, he got afraid that somebody ELSE would spill it before him and take the laurels14:17
javispedroit is bad RST38, I agree, only does wonders for music.14:18
pupnik_oh i get it RST38h - makes perfect sense ty14:18
javispedrofixed frameskip is "-s 1|2|3|4"14:18
RST38hjavis: -s 2 should probably do it14:18
RST38hif they mean "2 out of 3" by this14:18
pupnik_i think this is javis' own frameskip code14:19
javispedrono, I finally grabbed snes9x one14:19
wazdRST38h: yep :)14:19
javispedromines did really nothing (but at least was faster :P)14:19
javispedroIPPU.RenderThisFrame = ++IPPU.SkippedFrames >= limit;14:19
wazdRST38h: well, we're on the winning side anyway :)14:20
RST38hwazd: Ah, how can we lose :)14:20
pupnik_sound still blubbering at fs 2, fs 414:21
javispedroso a value of 0 renders every frame, a value of 1 renders every frame (lol), a value of 2 renders every other frame, a value of 3 renders 1 each 3 frames.14:22
RST38hYou won't get sound correct anyway14:22
RST38hSo, forget the sound, work on the overall framerate for now14:22
pupnik_it's pretty close now14:22
RST38hpupnik: Well, if it is not melodic, not FM, but wave sound, your audio hardware expects 22050 samples a second14:23
javispedroalso "-t" forces it not to sleep between fraces14:23
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RST38hpupnik: Your simulated system runs at let us say 30fps, so it can only supply you with 11025 samples a second14:23
jeremiahmikkov_: Oh really? What is your logic?14:23
jeremiahmikkov_: Not saying you're wrong, just would like to have some rationale.14:23
RST38hpupnik: When using melodic or FM sound, you can just render as many new samples as you wish14:23
taligHi everyone, I'm trying to write an install script for something and I wanted to ask how can you run .install files (for repositories) from the terminal14:24
taligAnyone knows?14:24
RST38hpupnik: You have got the frequency, the volume, etc14:24
pupnik_i think the SNES only uses samples, not FM sound... spc70014:24
RST38hpupnik: With wave sound, if you have not got the samples, you have not got the samples, period14:24
jeremiahtalig: Well, if you are installing a package on your tablet, you can use dpkg14:24
RST38hpupnik: So you are getting a "pop"14:24
jeremiahdo a 'man dpkg'14:24
javispedrothe snes does not use sampled sound14:24
javispedrosave for very few games.14:24
taligjeremiah: I'm not installing a package. I want to set up the repository...14:24
RST38hIf it does not use sampled saound, then you should be ok14:24
javispedrothe spc ram is 64k, not too many samples there.14:24
jeremiahUsually you need to be root to use dpkg for installation; 'dpkg -i <package>14:25
RST38hAlthough I would not make sound quality a top priority UNTIL you reach at least 45-50fps framerate14:25
jeremiahtalig: You want to enable a repo for the tablet?14:25
javispedroyou can disable the sound thread with "-a" ;P14:25
jeremiahtalig: I think, personally, that should be left up to the user.14:25
taligjeremiah: yes, and I want to do it from the terminal14:25
jeremiahtalig: That is not good practice.14:25
taligjeremiah: This is not a user-application, it's something to make my life easier for now14:25
javispedrothe APU is still emulated but it should not render sound.14:25
jeremiahtalig: Ah, I see. :)14:26
RST38htalig: Click on .install file from a browser. Then forget about it.14:26
infobotjeremiah meant: okay14:26
taligRST38h: I need to run it from terminal14:26
qwerty12_N810talig: dbus-send --print-reply /com/nokia/hildon_application_manager string:"file:///location/to/.install" will bring up the application manager asking the user to add the repos from the given install14:26
taligqwerty12_N810: no user interaction, please.14:26
javispedro(damn oprofile keeps settings and thus I made a two-minute profile to NFS ... waste of time again :()14:27
RST38hqwerty: She needs a cat >> :)14:27
taligguys, I can just edit the sources.list - but I wanted to do something a little more gentle, if possible.14:27
jeremiahtalig: Can't you just use apt-get?14:27
taligjeremiah: to install the repository?!14:27
pupnik_for RPG games, i'd say RST38h's priorities are reversed from mine14:27
jeremiahtalig: Maybe tell us what you want to do _exactly_14:27
RST38hpupnik: it has no relation to the genre14:27
taligjeremiah: Add a repository/14:27
javispedropupnik_, I like sound :)14:27
RST38hpupnik: At low framerates, you will get slow/lagging/poppy sound no matter what you do14:28
jeremiahedit /etc/apt/source.list14:28
RST38hpupnik: So it makes sense to leave sound for later14:28
taligjeremiah: no way to use the .install then. Thanks.14:28
pupnik_RST38h you are doing the precisely correct thing to get me to look into this14:28
jeremiahNot that I know of off the top of my head.14:28
RST38hpupnik: Hehe ;)14:28
RST38hWhatever makes you advance toward the goal, pupnik :)14:29
taligjeremiah: Thanks anyways14:29
qwerty12_N810Sound in old games is overrated :)14:29
javispedroit's the reason I still use winamp, even under gnome.14:30
qwerty12_N810I can't stand it, I always have some track or other playing instead :p14:30
RST38hqwerty: You haven't heard the good game soundtrack then14:30
RST38hqwerty: Try ZanacEX/Aleste, bothavailable for MSX and will play in fMSX14:30
jeremiahtalig: Sure - sorry I couldn't really help. :/14:31
RST38hqwerty: Other good choices are any Castlevania titles on any platform, Goonies, and Knightmare14:32
RST38hqwerty: For Castlevanias you will easily find MIDs/MP3s on the Net14:32
qwerty12_N810Right. :)14:32
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pupnik_ 3583 user     RWN    23068  3382 32.1 18.1 drnoksnes14:36
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pupnik_^^ javispedro14:36
javispedroare you using fixed frameskip?14:37
pupnik_that was -fs 4 fixed14:37
javispedroif so, try "-t"14:37
pupnik_will try with -t now14:37
pupnik_now music running fast14:37
javispedrothat's what happens :(14:37
pupnik_ 3586 user     RWN    23068  3382 93.3 18.1 drnoksnes14:37
pupnik_but the sample blubbering is exactly the same14:38
pupnik_meaning the sample underruns are not due to overloaded CPU14:38
javispedrothere's something I want to try14:38
javispedrocurrently I have no locking primitives14:38
javispedrothe audio thread can interrupt the main loop at any point14:38
javispedro(didn't put any cause I feared speed)14:38
pupnik_this sounds very neat :)14:39
pupnik_not easy though eh14:39
javispedrobut may case the blips.14:39
javispedroyes, very easy. it is an abomination ;P14:39
RST38hjavis,pupnik: Folks, always use -t14:40
RST38hNow I know where that linux line came from14:40
javispedroRST38h, in auto mode it doesn't sleep either14:40
RST38hjavis: Can you profile with -t -s 2 ?14:40
javispedroI mean14:40
javispedroit does sleep, but not that much14:40
javispedrosince it's always "late" as the algorithm calls it.14:41
pupnik_the blubbering is the same, regardless of whether the spc700 is running too fast or too slow14:41
RST38hjavis: Well it sleeps enough to cause that 16% oprofile line14:41
javispedrothat's NFS for sure, I'm now using tmpfs for the log data14:42
javispedroit writes a lot.14:42
RST38hYour total CPU use should not be less than 75%, I guess, if you want this thign to be speedy14:42
RST38hOh you have logging enabled? :)14:42
RST38hor is it oprofile log?14:42
javispedrooprofile log14:42
RST38hI see14:42
javispedrothe kernel uses 5% now14:43
RST38hyep, right number14:43
javispedrostill a bit...14:43
pupnik_is sound rate fixed javispedro ?14:43
javispedro22050, yes.14:44
ShadowJKYou'd probably see NFS as McSPI, cx-something and rpciod in top14:44
pupnik_using sdl-audio ?14:44
javispedrowhich uses esd.14:44
pupnik_k there are some backend issues with sdl-audio and emulators14:44
pupnik_is there a .wav-writer option in drpocketsnes?  that helped me fix up NES sound14:45
javispedronot yet, and not trivial currently14:45
RST38hwazd: not only rx51 news, but the canon g11 got leaked today14:46
RST38hwazd: most likely fake though14:46
jeremiahRST38h: Faxe rx51 or fake Canon?14:46
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ShadowJKmore rx51 leaks?14:46
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javispedroRST38h, pupnik_, new trace with less NFS usage (damn oprofile launched the daemon from nfs, but at least the costly writes were done to tmpfs)14:47
RST38hjeremiah: canon14:47
RST38hShadowJK: Well, Murtazin continues writing on his lj and twitter blogs14:47
RST38hShadowJK: He promises a full prerelease review tonight14:47
javispedroShadowJK, thanks, but oprofile does not seem to show kernel threads (probably because I don't have kernel debug symbols on device)14:47
Summelijavispedro: nice work! I also considered porting dr. pocket sness at a time14:47
RST38hShadowJK: Says he can't reveal too many details but there will be way more screenshots14:48
jeremiahRST38h: Hmm, he can't possibly have an NDA with Nokia can he?14:48
RST38hHe does not, I think14:48
pupnik_heh that mode7 is a killer14:48
RST38hOk, gentlemen, should we now consider optimizing that mode7 draw routine? =014:48
ShadowJKjavispedro, yeah I was talking about top :P with oprofile if you had kernel symbols you'd get per function detail?14:49
javispedroShadowJK, in theory :D14:49
RST38hjeremiah: There is a little detail though: it looks like a lot of Fremantle software development is done in Petrozavodsk, .RU14:49
RST38hjeremiah: And people there talk, you know...14:49
RST38hjavis: Could you paste that routine to the pastebin?14:50
jeremiahRST38h: Wow. Good detective work. ;)14:50
javispedroit's generated through a macro -- it was today's plan to manually expand it14:51
jeremiahThere is always a risk with outsourcing software development.14:51
RST38hjavis: And, BTW, you may not have noticed it, but the CPU is probably eating about as much14:51
RST38hjavis: It is just broken into little functions that you will have to add up manually14:51
RST38hjeremiah: As far as I can tell, it is not outsourcing, they are just regular nokia employees, but I may be wrong14:51
javispedroRST38h, yep, all those Op**** are from the CPU asm core14:51
RST38hjeremiah: Geographically, Petrozavodsk is as close to Finland as it gets14:52
RST38hjavis: Add 'em up in some spreadsheet and you will get the total for the CPU14:52
jeremiahRST38h: Aha. Fascinating.14:52
RST38hjavus: If CPU is not done in assembly, rewriting it in assembly should effectively half that number =)14:53
javispedrothe cpu is mostly asm14:53
javispedroa bit verbose for my liking -- e.g each opcode updates some cycle counters -- but i guess that's needed for accurate sync in the snes14:54
RST38hcorrect, although I *think* 65816 only needs one counter14:54
javispedrofrom memory I remember two at least, plain instruction counter and memory accesses counter.14:55
RST38hmemory accesses on 65816 are not asynchronous14:55
javispedrothey use it to simulate timing I guess14:55
javispedrowhen to fire vblank and all that14:55
RST38hyes but if mem accesses ar e not async then you can simply count them with cpu cycles14:56
javispedrohum, true.14:56
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javispedrohum, oprofile has assembly annotate function15:01
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pupnik_javispedro: are you using sdlmixer mix_openaudio for sound output?15:02
javispedrono sdlmixer.15:02
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javispedrodrpocketsnes itself mixes.15:02
RST38hjavis: Well, I could have guessed this output even without looking at it15:02
RST38hjavis: Every time there is a memory access, the NEXT instruction will register higher time15:02
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RST38hjavis: The bottlenecks occur where multiple memory accesses are grouped15:03
javispedrooh, i was looking it wrong then, thanks :D15:03
RST38hjavis: You also want to know how to solve it on ARM?15:03
javispedrorewriting it in arm is going to be enough adventure for today :P15:04
javispedrocause I am already seeing some gcc stupidity...15:04
RepMaceit is on gcc15:05
javispedroyep, that's gcc output.15:05
javispedrobut you don't have the source ;P15:05
RST38hjavis: You absolutely want to rewrite it in assembler15:05
javispedroat least I am sure now the problem is there and not yet another symbol mixup15:05
RST38hjavis: Not because you can do better optimization job than GCC15:05
RepMaceno. i meant my gentoo install ;)15:06
javispedrolol :D15:06
RST38hjavis: But because GCC does not give a shit about memory access cost15:06
javispedroah, we're on par on that ;)15:06
RepMacei think some time at the end of the year i ought to be able to use my tablet again15:06
RST38hjavis: So, the solution is to use assembly, stick as many variables as you can into registers, use single register for 2-4 variables15:06
RepMaceassembly ftw15:07
RST38hjavis: To access individual fields in a register, use embedded shifts in ARM instructions15:07
RST38hjavis: And and/bic15:07
javispedrodo you know if uxtb is one cycle ?15:07
RST38hA moment, I do not know this instruction15:08
javispedroit's from armv6, gcc uses it a lot15:08
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RST38hnot supported by arm9/arm11 afaik15:08
javispedron8x0 is arm11 isn't it?15:08
RST38hUXTB is 1 cycle on Cortex15:09
javispedroit's definitely support on n8x015:09
RST38hI will check further, maybe missed it at some point15:09
javispedronm, I'll download the docs15:09
* RepMace waits for mer on his g115:09
RepMacei think i am going to try a hero rom15:10
javispedrowell, very interesting talk today, thanks RST38h and pupnik_15:10
javispedrogotta go, see you!15:10
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RST38hhmmm looks like he is compiling it in thumb mode15:11
RST38hmaybe not15:11
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pupnik_so beautiful to see these run :) :) :)15:21
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pablo_anybody try to compile Qt using the flag "-opengl"  in fremantle !?15:26
RepMace20 of 6315:30
RepMaceer. 5815:30
RepMacei hope there are a lot of small ones in there15:30
RepMacei have to hand it to htc.. their qwerty is pretty good15:31
RepMaceon the g115:31
RepMacei guess compared to the n81015:31
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pupnik_RST38h: blubbering is regular at about 20hz, regardless of game, frameskip or load.  Could possibly be occurring internally, or on the backend, imo.15:45
pupnik_or maybe 12 hz15:45
pupnik_perhaps determining the exact blubber/skip frequency would help figure-out which buffer is underrunning15:46
pupnik_e.g. at 22050, a 2kB buffer would have a skip of XX hz15:46
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RepMaceis deblet dead?15:50
RepMacethe original project?15:50
RepMaceoh. ok15:51
qwerty12_N810Isn't that what it says on its homepage? ;)15:51
Stskeepstrac took up too much memory15:51
RepMacedunno. didnt check the homepage15:51
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RepMaceon my phone now. steel takes a min to load15:51
RepMaceonce you get it booting tho does it work like debian in a console?15:52
RepMaceand use the debian arm repos?15:52
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timeless_mbpjrocha: basically, yes15:52
RepMaceStskeeps: so the whole problem was power and mem for deblet huh?15:53
StskeepsRepMace: and usage15:53
Stskeepsa desktop environment just isn't that friendly on a mobile device15:54
RepMaceah i see15:54
RepMaceim sure that is especially true on the n800s15:54
RepMacewhere the kb must have been an issue15:54
Stskeepsi didn't have a n810 at that point15:55
RepMacefluxbox doesnt seem too bad on the tablet15:55
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RepMacelittle bare but usable15:55
RepMacebut then again i havent done much with it because i have to fix key mappings15:56
RepMacei havent even started the sound yet ;)15:56
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RepMaceim sure at that point i will be ripping out my hair begging you for help Stskeeps15:57
gtludwigI'm looking for a detailled howto to perform a firware update on my N80015:57
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infobotfrom memory, flashing is
gtludwiginfobot, thanks15:58
infobotbitte, gtludwig15:58
till-german bot?15:59
VDVsxinfobot, thanks15:59
infobotVDVsx: de rien15:59
VDVsxIt seems, lol15:59
till-infobot, thanks16:00
infobotno worries, till-16:00
VDVsxinfobot, thanks16:00
infobotVDVsx: gern geschehen16:00
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VDVsxsmart bot :)16:00
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RepMaceinfobot, thanks16:02
infobotRepMace: sure thing16:02
RepMacegoes off addresses?16:02
* RepMace uses his .tw shell16:03
VDVsxdon't think so, I'm not French ;)16:04
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rkirtior maybe it throws a random language each time ?16:05
RepMaceinfobot, thanks16:06
infobotno worries, RepMace16:06
RepMaceinfobot, thanks16:06
infobotRepMace: bitte16:06
RepMaceok. guess so16:06
gtludwighow do I check currently installed firmware on N800?16:07
Stskeepsabout product16:08
Stskeepsin control panel16:08
gtludwigStskeeps, thanks =)16:08
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gtludwigsays here Version: 5.2008.43-716:09
gtludwigis this is?16:09
Stskeepssounds like the latest one16:11
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pupnik_darn, our SDL doesn't support disk-writer output ...  export SDL_AUDIODRIVER="disk"16:11
pupnik_apparently at least16:12
gtludwigStskeeps, hmm... is there another way to reset to factory defaults other than updating firmware? I got this N800 second hand on a really good deal and want to zero it =)16:13
Stskeepsgtludwig: you can always reflash same version16:14
gtludwigStskeeps, true!16:14
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gtludwigStskeeps, btw the flashing instructions are for linux and mac, is there any instructions for win? I'm a linux user without linux access now =(16:15
Stskeepsyes, there's a update tool for windows afaik16:15
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javispedropupnik_, grepping the library seems to indicate so. it only has esd and alsa.16:17
pupnik_wow 'alsa' works as target16:18
pupnik_and fixes the problem16:19
pupnik_perfect sound javispedro16:19
javispedrowow, is that true?16:19
javispedroof course :P that was a rethorical question ;P16:19
* pupnik_ dances 16:20
javispedroerm..  I was impressed cause on mplayer sdl->esd is usually the best and fastest option.16:20
pupnik_god, this is awesome16:20
javispedromaybe esd does not like the output audio rate16:21
javispedroor does some el-cheapo conversion on it.16:21
Andy80what happened to ALL people karma :P ?! It has been dropped down by lot of points...16:21
qwerty12_N810lardman's revenge!16:22
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javispedrodid lardman's karman go down too, maybe his luck is now gone16:22
Andy80I remeber, for example, the TimSamoff's karma was more than 2000 points16:23
Andy80now is 169716:23
qwerty12_N810Discussion karma, on my profile, has disappeared :)16:24
qwerty12_N810Now I really do suspect lardman :p16:24
javispedroheh, I'm on page 6 now.16:25
JaffaX-Fade: ping16:26
JaffaYeah, I've not got any discussion karma either16:26
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Andy80javispedro, on wich page were you before this dropdown?16:27
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javispedroI think 916:27
Andy80so it has been balanced :D16:27
Andy80or scrambled :D16:27
javispedroit has been a karma massacre :)16:28
jeremiahIts good for those of us who don't haunt t.m.o though. :)16:28
RepMaceis this like some D&D thing?16:28
qwerty12_N810lardman hasn't been getting his discussion karma so therefore, we can't either :)16:28
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javispedroRepMace: no, this is this:
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RepMaceso.... kind of like D&D?16:31
pupnik_qwerty12_N810: perhaps discussion karma was vastly overrated compared to ... developing software16:31
pupnik_i can think of others who may have complained about that16:31
pupnik_(not me!)16:32
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Jaffajeremiah: "Discussion" karma is mailing lists ;-p16:32
javispedrodiscussion karma is mailing-list karma, isn't it? the average post there is of higher quality than the average tmo post. (not to offend anyone)16:32
Jaffajavispedro: correct.16:32
taligQ: Is there a reason why I can't apt-get install maemo-python-device-env , but I can install it from the app manager?16:32
Jaffatalig: What does apt-get say?16:33
qwerty12_N810javispedro: unless you're "wolfmane" or "dariusjack"...16:33
qwerty12_N810pupnik_: indeed... :)16:33
pupnik_javispedro: you *so* made my day... i have to walk to the bank now... playing CT all the way :D16:34
fiferboyMy karma is the same, but I moved up on the second page :)16:34
taligJaffa: that the package is depended on python2.5 something but that would not be installed16:34
taligI tried with -f16:34
javispedropupnik_, heh :)16:35
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pupnik_listening with headphones atm - it's purrfect16:35
javispedroand to think I initially wanted to see openspc only cause I though a good emu would be impossible.16:35
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javispedroglad  to hear ALSA works fine, one thing off my todo list (try to put some key SDL_LockAudio around)16:36
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javispedroi'm actually linking the gui, it snapshots the game each time you quit, then resumes when you launch it again -- much like the builtin chess game.16:37
javispedroyou can do something similar in the cmdline version with the "-o" parameter (i put that to test only and a better one is on my todo list)16:38
pupnik_if you do a build with autosave, please pm me the tgz16:38
pupnik_-o ?16:38
javispedroyep, it tries to load from rom_file.frz.gz, and saves to rom_file.frz.gz on exit16:38
javispedro(it's what it does when launched from gui)16:39
javispedro(my plan is that the gui will then move those .frz.gz files around)16:39
javispedrothe SRAM is autosaved always no mater what, though.16:40
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pupnik_drnoksnes is a good name too16:41
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taligIs there a reason why it's trying to install a deb package that I didn't ask to be installed? (it's a downloaded package, but I don't want it installed now...)16:45
jeremiahtalig: Is it a dependency for something else you've installed?16:46
jeremiahJaffa: Ah, didn't know that (obviously)  :)16:47
taligjeremiah: I'm doing apt-get install sudser and I get some-package-that-I-created: Depends .....16:47
jeremiahWell, then it looks like it is a dependency issue.16:48
taligJeremiah: Of what?! sudser does not relate to that package?16:49
RepMacewell. wrong #16:49
taligi mean "!"16:49
mikkov_talig: you have probably installed some-package-that-I-created before, but it's missing a depency16:49
* RepMace needs some more crack16:49
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mikkov_talig: you can remove the broken package16:50
taligmikkov_: Thanks!16:50
jeremiahmikkov_: You mentioned you didn't think that checking the name of the binary package that gets built is the same as the package name. i.e. a package called foo should build a binary called foo, not bar.16:56
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jeremiahmikkov_: What is your rational?16:56
infobotjeremiah meant: mikkov_: What is your rationale?16:56
jeremiahNot that I think you are wrong16:56
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VDVsxcan't wait: Maemo5 - 100 screenshots, 20 pics of device, 5 pages. 7 hours to go :) Think it will be a little bit interesting. All things are rdy16:58
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javispedroso in 7 hours minus 8 minutes we're going to see 100 Maemo 5 screenshots.17:00
JaffaVDVsx: Indeed, just saw sjgadsby retweet it17:00
mikkov_so now eldar isn't waiting for the release date anymore?17:00
javispedroprobably before qgil officially tells us which apps are we going to see builtin.17:00
qwerty12_N810Thank God.17:00
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* woglinde is ircing from train17:01
Jaffajavispedro: He's going to tell us officially which apps are builtin?17:01
* jeremiah reads mikkov_'s link17:01
javispedroJaffa: he told someone (don't remember who right now) to email him on that question17:02
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Jaffajavispedro: Ah yes, he said specific app authors could email him and he'd see what he could do.17:02
JaffaI don't think you can claim to be writing a video-over-ip app and ask if Skype is going to be built-in with video, though ;-)17:02
JaffaWhereas gcobb *could* ask about PIM apps17:03
javispedrooh, but there are nearly 4 pim app authoirs.17:03
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woglindehaha the old pom discussion?17:03
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javispedrodamn, I wanted to go on a mountain trip today but opening the exterior door was like opening an oven.17:04
VDVsxbut Eldar probably has a bit outdated maemo5 version :(17:05
JaffaVDVsx: Still going to have features we've not seen before.17:05
VDVsxtrue ;)17:05
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: since Nokia seem to deal in keeping their mouths shut, it's the best we'll get.17:05
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, they prefer that others leak info, it seems :)17:06
javispedroso, how does it feel to be the only gnu/linux based smartphone left17:06
jeremiah^^ Looks like the RX-51 prototype17:06
javispedrothat's n-97, don't tease us jeremiah!!17:07
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jeremiahLook at the photos!17:07
jeremiahSpecifically the one where it says RX-51!17:07
javispedrooh, the prototype ones.17:07
jeremiahAbout the middle of the page17:07
jeremiahWhat is that about?17:08
VDVsxold stuff :)17:08
jeremiahIf it is the N97, why does it say RX-51 Prototype?17:08
javispedrofrom the looks of it (i didn't google translate'd it yet) seems an editorial article17:08
* jeremiah is always behind the rumor curve. :|17:08
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aolit's clearly not a n97...17:09
VDVsxyeah, those are the first leaked photos of rx-5117:09
qwerty12_N810Someone should build XChat for it :)17:10
VDVsxfor reference :
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woglindejavis the train is like sauna too17:14
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Jaffajeremiah: Don't go on holiday when waiting for new device ;-)17:14
javispedroI prefer: "don't wait for new device when on holiday" ;)17:15
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krzysz00when i try to compile hello-world under sbrsh ./configure fails at checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. and config.log shows a message sbrsh: Authentication failed17:16
* javispedro 's looking for some asm gfx code to steal but seems only the snesadvance guys did that and they use some of the gba chips :(17:16
krzysz00helo please?17:16
GeneralAntillesThey really need to adopt S60 5th's arrow keys for the finger keyboard.
javispedrokrzysz00, I never used sbrsh, did you try if you can run a bare arm binary?17:17
andre__folks that send me a private msg in that only says "help.please" should be larted.17:18
X-FadeWhat's up with the alignment on that keyboard?17:18
krzysz00but with sbrsh it doesn't work17:18
krzysz00wait, do you need sbrsh17:18
qwerty12_N810andre__: keeping my PM box full for a couple of months was bliss :)17:19
andre__qwerty12_N810, what's the limit? can you send me that many messages, please? :-D17:19
qwerty12_N810100 :)17:19
qwerty12_N810I could but then I'd be mistaken for a spammer :p17:20
andre__time to create a second account for me, i guess, to spam myself :-P17:20
javispedroandre__, it's a mistery for me how they choose their "victims".17:21
javispedroe.g. for a while on some other site they keep sending me priv. msgs like if was the owner17:21
javispedronow that I am the owner, they no longer send me pms.17:21
andre__i helped that guy in a thread but did not answer his followup comment17:22
andre__because if i have no clue i shut up :)17:22
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GeneralAntilles vote away17:23
GeneralAntillesandre__, ah, now we know why you always seem to go silent. :P17:24
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javispedroah, the fremantle theme seems truly s6017:24
andre__GeneralAntilles, heh. any specific criticism? :-P17:24
javispedro(disclaimer: i don't own a s60 phone)17:25
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GeneralAntillesandre__, no, just a quick jab to help wake me up in the morning. ;)17:25
javispedroqwerty12_N810, worst thing is that some bugs are _already_ FIH :P17:25
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timeless_mbpandre__: thanks for exporting bugs :)17:26
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Guess that bit of sarcasm backfired then :)17:26
timeless_mbpandre__: did you only export one of those two bugs?17:26
andre__timeless_mbp, only one of them. everytime surprises me17:26
timeless_mbpyeah, there's a reason why i prefer to file bugs in bugs.maemo.org17:27
timeless_mbpfriendly service :)17:27
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* GeneralAntilles finds things to do for 5 hours.17:32
* javispedro 's going to try git-branch, hope I don't end up deleting the whole repo.17:33
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ron1nthought I'd share, from's twitter feed: thenokiablog: Seems we'll be seeing more photos of the rover/maemo/n900 device later today!17:43
wazdmaemo 5 will have onscreen keyboard aswell17:44
StsN810wazd, thumb, known for ages17:44
Myrttiwazd: why would it *not* have it?17:44
wazdStsN810: oh, whatever :D17:44
wazdMyrtti: well, who knows :)17:45
GeneralAntilleswazd, seriously, get with the times, man. :P17:45
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StsN810what -is- crazy is the hardcoded thumb and undocumented changes17:45
wazdok, another breaking news, n900 would be a phone!17:46
MyrttiI had to chuckle today when Stefan blogged in IntoMobile about the vkb17:46
GeneralAntilleswazd, also: it has 3D drivers!17:46
wazdGeneralAntilles: nowai?!17:46
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wazdI had a thought to make a maemo5 like theme for maemo 4 and post screenshots to the internets :D17:47
GeneralAntillesSupposedly it's coming with a Tegra, too.17:47
wazdbut I have too much work to fool around17:47
Myrttiwazd: why not... maemo3!17:47
Myrttithat would be fun17:47
GeneralAntillesToo late now.17:47
GeneralAntilles\Maemo 3 themes were awful.17:47
wazdyeah, seriously :)17:48
wazdPlankton was fine :)17:48
Myrttidoes anyone see anything newsworthy about ? I don't17:48
GeneralAntillesThe Valentines one was fun, though. ;)17:48
Myrttiyeah, I used it for a year or so17:48
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, !!!!17:48
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Myrttitwas pink, what did you expect17:48
ron1nhey, I had a handful of colors to chose from and that was it when the 770 launched =P17:48
GeneralAntillesYeah, me neither.17:48
ron1nthat was awful.17:48
GeneralAntillesBug about it, though:
wazdI still wonder why Enter is smaller than BSpace17:49
JaffaMyrtti: We now know there'll be a virtual keyboard and have a bit more info on the fremantle theme?17:49
GeneralAntilles"Let's pick the most obnoxious theme colors we can find"17:49
javispedroGeneralAntilles, lol. a bug about leaked screenshots :)17:49
GeneralAntillesI <3 Plankton, though.17:49
wazdEven after 2 fricking years of using n800 I still tap bspace instead of enter ocasionaly17:49
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I was considering attaching the leaked screenshot for comparison. ;)17:49
MyrttiJaffa: I still don't see anything newsworthy in that screenshot17:49
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, but I figured all of the relevant people would have their own devices to verify with.17:50
wazdThe best thing I see is that gradients are fine!17:50
Myrttiit's the BLOODY SAME VKB as in ALL the others before it17:50
Myrttior atleast I can't see any great difference17:50
Myrtti*yawn* move on17:50
JaffaMyrtti: It's the third screenshot from an actual device that we've seen.17:50
GeneralAntilleswazd, I just wish the gestures weren't so picky.17:50
sjgadsbyYou want "Fixed in Harmattan" already, GeneralAntilles?17:50
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JaffaAnd the second leaked by eldar<wasshisname>17:51
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, since the screen is much more sensitive, you have a good chance :)17:51
MyrttiJaffa: oh, I wouldn't know or know the difference17:51
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, too late:
Myrttiit's all same maemo stuff to me...17:52
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sjgadsbyGeneralAntilles: Nuts. I haven't been paying attention. I suppose I should update the bug jar script to check for those too.17:53
wazd"Fixed in I***"17:54
javispedroah, all the Fixed in Harmattan bugs.17:54
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andre__wazd, the next version should be called "Iternity" ;-)17:55
MyrttiI still think Ilmatar would we rad17:55
andre__damn. it's eternity? somebody patch en_US17:55
sjgadsbyScrew it. Lets just pick a "Z" wind, mark all the bugs fixed in it, and send andre__ on holiday for a few years.17:57
javispedroMaemo Zonda.17:57
wazdI think Zonda is a registered trademark :)17:58
andre__sjgadsby, as long as i get partially paid i'm fine with that17:58
qwerty12_N810Zut, as in all the smoke produced from smoking one17:58
StskeepsMaemo on digital joints17:58
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javispedroFixed in Inverna18:07
javispedrosounds good.18:07
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javispedroMaemo Inverna, now using the Enlightened Toolkit instead of Qt.18:10
Stskeepsoh dear god18:11
* Stskeeps grimaces18:11
javispedrohow can maemo keep on every tech site's frontpage if they don't switch toolkits again by Inverna18:12
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Stskeeps <- oo18:40
thopiekarthe new tablet just looks from the front like the N810..18:41
Stskeepshonestly though, where's the phone feature? :P18:42
thopiekarmaybe you have to use it like the Nokia Ngage QD18:42
thopiekarthe old one..18:42
Stskeepsalso who designed that maemo logo..18:42
wazdùðá ðó åãêòóâ øå ùò Æ)18:43
wazdoh, he turned it on :D18:43
lcuko_O pretty18:43
Stskeepsi want one. :)18:43
* thopiekar is searching for a pic on gpictures18:44
qwerty12_N810He's put a mobile-review watermark instead of a link to his livejournal.18:44
aolmobile review did it first again18:44
aol(pic with screen visible :)18:44
aolthey must be connected somehow with the official nokia marketting18:44
wazdthey are18:45
aollifting the hype just before the official release18:45
wazdNokia Maps are there, thank god :)18:45
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aoland ovi18:45
aolwhich means ovi store18:45
wazdaol: not exactly18:45
wazdaol: maybe just sharing stuff or something :)18:46
aolyeah right18:46
wazdaol: But I hope there will be a place for some commercial apps18:46
aolwhich equals ovi store18:46
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Stskeepsyay preinstalled x-term. not that anyone is surprised.18:47
wazdStatusbar icon look silly, I'll be honnest :)18:47
mgedminregarding, is it the poor quality of the picture, or is the front really all flat with no beveling?18:47
qwerty12_N810I'm surprised at the lack of a "signal" indicator.18:48
wazdqwerty12_N810: there is one18:48
wazdqwerty12_N810: top-right18:48
qwerty12_N810Phone one :)18:48
wazdqwerty12_N810: top-center - wifi18:48
Firebirdthink he means the bars18:48
wazdqwerty12_N810: botton-center - bt18:48
qwerty12_N810wazd: That icon is the one for that network-manager program available for Diablo, even18:49
fiferboyIs that a mic opening on the left centre?18:49
javispedrofiferboy, it's that or speaker, iphone style18:49
thopiekarStskeeps: calling with a ngage QD .. :D18:49
javispedrothe taco one was prettier :D18:50
thopiekarthat what I meant before :)18:50
GeneralAntillesThat battery icon is horrifying18:50
GeneralAntillesand the connection applet mostly just looks like clutter.18:50
javispedroI don't understand why the status area isn't right aligned18:51
thopiekarGeneralAntilles: not very hand-friendly...18:51
GeneralAntilleswazd, they need a real Maemo logo. ;)18:51
GeneralAntillesthopiekar, the status bar is one big tap area.18:51
GeneralAntillesIt brings up all applets at once.18:51
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: they stole your idea!18:51
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Which one?18:51
thopiekarah.. k18:51
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, yeah, definitely :)18:51
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: The clock18:51
fiferboyI knew I should have applied for a patent...18:52
fiferboyIt looks like there isn't a hard size limit on (at least some of the) statusbar contents18:52
wazdqwerty12_N810: idea was mine, Andrew made the rest :D18:52
wazdqwerty12_N810: Andrew Power!18:52
fiferboywazd: True, you dropped the ball on the patent18:52
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qwerty12_N810wazd: Ah, right :D18:53
wazdfiferboy: btw, I've got some time to help you with your secret app :P18:53
fiferboywazd: Thanks!  It's not really a secret, just not ready for prime-time18:53
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Jaffamgedmin: I *think* it's bevelless, which is interesting18:57
javispedrothere seems to be a bit of shadow in the extremes, but not as much as in the n8x018:58
mgedmincapacitative touchscreen?18:58
mgedminfinger-friendly, stylus-hostile18:59
mgedminunless you've got a metal stylus, perhaps?18:59
wazdmgedmin: resistive18:59
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, no.18:59
mgedminone of those dem electrickety thangs, yes18:59
GeneralAntillesHow many times do we have to say it's resistive. <_<18:59
GeneralAntillesI think I've corrected that rumor at least 2 dozen times by now.18:59
wazdwho needs capacitive TS when you can have normal resistive18:59
mgedminuntil everyone hears :)18:59
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, well, the part number has been in the kernel since last year.19:00
mgedminget a bot react whennever somebody says 'capacitative'19:00
javispedroand kick him from the channel? ;)19:00
wazdthe only thing that's on the capacitive side is that you can use any material to cover screen19:00
* mgedmin wonders if spreading rumors on IRC influences the karma points19:00
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, yes, we give all of your karma points to frank.wagner.19:01
mgedmingood thing I don't have any :-)19:01
mgedminI think...19:01
wazdguys, mabe someone remember19:01
wazdthere was a short movie on youtube19:02
GeneralAntillesAll movies on YouTube are short.19:02
wazdbout simulation of nuclear strike at New York19:02
wazdGeneralAntilles: not all ;)19:02
wazdwith some fancy electro music19:03
wazdit was pretty popular, so maybe someone remembers it19:03
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Andy80I propose to cut 10-50 karma points to people who spread rumors on irc/ML/twitter ecc... :P19:05
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wazdhmm, can see it19:08
javispedrodamn, I can't even rickroll properly ;)19:08
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wazdoh, found it! Round 2. Can anybody tell what's the soundtrack? :)
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RepMacestill going19:17
ron1nSorry, can't contain my excitement. =P
ron1nnew "n900" pics19:18
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kfxif this device doesn't have drag lock I am going to buy one expressly so I can put it in a microwave19:19
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ron1ndrag lock?19:20
ron1ndon't follow19:20
GeneralAntilleskfx, it has a hardware switch.19:20
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GeneralAntillesJust like the N810, 5800, and N97.19:21
qwerty12_N810kfx: that bug was "Fixed in Fremantle" and the feature was added unofficially to Diablo...19:21
ron1nI'd prefer a hardware lock. Makes more sense to me.19:21
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kfxGeneralAntilles: I don't mean a way to disable the touchscreen, I mean a way to lock apps in place on the home screen19:22
sjgadsbykfx: Nokia took Diablo's Applets on Ice idea further with Maemo 5. The applets on the RX-51 are constantly moving, bouncing around the screen. You have to catch them to use them.19:22
javispedrosjgadsby, :D19:22
GeneralAntillesYeah, been fixed for a while.19:22
kfxsjgadsby: let's do it.  it's got an accelerometer, right?  applets should be assigned a fake mass based on screen real estate occupied; we'll assume constant density for now19:23
kfxthat way you can just spin it and the bigger heavier applets will slide to the outsides of the screen19:23
GAN800sjgadsby, ever use the folder physics extension for OS 9?19:23
ron1nkfx: centrifuge organizing!19:24
sjgadsbyNo. I skipped OS 9.19:24
GAN800Ah, too bad, was a fun one.19:24
GAN800You could toss folders around with the mouse.19:24
sjgadsbyI have an old B&W G3 in a corner. I'll have to try to find the software.19:24
GAN800It was French, I believe.19:25
kfx"fixed in fremantle" is a code that I decipher as "you need to spend $750 to have this"19:25
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GAN800Or get Mer19:25
qwerty12_N810kfx: Did you read the other half of my sentence? :)19:25
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GAN800I can't save in Amazon Queen. :(19:26
kfxqwerty12_N810: yeah, but the third half, that contained a link to the solution, seems to have been lost in transmission19:26
ron1nThird half XD serious a fraction infraction is serious.19:27
qwerty12_N810kfx: There's debs on the bug report. I can't be arsed to get the link, but maybe someone else'll be kind as to do so.19:27
javispedrohere it is:
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ron1njavispedro: ahhh again -_-19:27
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kfxI hope stuff like that winds up in the "community update" or whatever nokia's calling the handover19:28
ron1nyeah so do I. I love Rick Astley.19:28
GeneralAntillesron1n, ever listen to Car Talk?19:29
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RepMacemiami vice.. new #! show19:29
qwerty12_N810RepMace: Eurotrip?19:29
RepMacethat movie was an instant classic19:30
ron1nGeneralAntilles: nope19:30
RepMacelike when they are playing the techno scotty doesnt know song19:30
kfxGeneralAntilles: I <3 Mer.  Eagerly awaiting 0.1619:30
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ron1nRepMace: Nowhere. near. berlin.19:30
RepMaceyeah haha19:30
RepMacea nickel. i quit!19:31
RepMacei open my own hotel now!19:31
RepMaceis mike really a common german girl name?19:31
RepMacepronounced mika19:32
ron1nI don't think so.19:32
ron1nthen again, my middle name is Michele, looks like Michelle, pronounced Meekelleh19:32
ron1nso who knows.19:32
RepMacewell. bbl19:32
RepMacejust checked in on my gentoo building19:33
RepMacei think it is building db now19:33
wazdjavispedro: I've almost clicked my own link :D19:33
javispedrowazd, yeah, had to grab yours since my was defective :P19:34
thopiekarsee you19:34
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lbtso how come m.t.o qualifies for karma but #maemo doesn't?19:50
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infobotlbt meant: so how come t.m.o qualifies for karma but #maemo doesn't?19:50
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* Stskeeps yawns19:52
Stskeepslbt: harder to quanitify19:52
VDVsxlbt, nah, people don't rant 'enough' here19:52
Stskeepsline whoring != contribution19:53
GeneralAntilleslbt, because nobody has implemented an indexer yet.19:53
GeneralAntillesFeel free.19:53
kfxI thought infobots could track karma19:53
kfxinfobot: karma kfx19:53
infobotkfx has neutral karma19:53
kfxinfobot: karma lbt19:53
infobotlbt has neutral karma19:53
kfxinfobot: karma lbt19:53
wazdinfobot: karma wazd19:54
infobotwazd has neutral karma19:54
kfxinfobot: karma lbt19:54
infobotlbt has neutral karma19:54
kfxmaybe karma tracking is disabled on this one19:54
wazd~burn himself19:54
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze19:54
lbtI just wanted to start a war...19:55
GeneralAntillesNot the same thing.19:55
lbtI was bored19:55
lbtseems the done thing...19:55
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lbtgah - gcc19:57
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Stskeepswazd, everyone:
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RepMaceih oh21:12
RepMaceuh oh too21:12
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RST38hMoo all21:15
Stskeepsmoo RST38h21:15
RST38hSts: Fremantle dialogs suck.21:15
RST38hthe rest is cool =)21:16
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RepMaceStskeeps: looks nice21:16
Stskeepsit just confirms what i knew already, we have fremantle apis pretty darn solid underneath :P21:17
RepMaceare those real pics?21:17
StskeepsRepMace: fully real, but they're staged21:17
RST38htransparency too?21:17
RepMacemaybe 0.16 ;)21:17
StskeepsRST38h: the blur effect? no, but we will have click outside window21:17
StskeepsRepMace: .17 rather21:18
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javispedrobtw, why the fvwm craze?21:18
RST38hSts: No, the transparency under the Mer status bar21:19
StskeepsRST38h: fairly fake transparency21:19
RST38hjavis: seasonal?21:19
RST38hSts: ekh...21:19
GeneralAntillesBleh, no preview tonight?21:19
GeneralAntillesThat's so lame.21:19
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RST38hohmygod g11 is out and s90 too wanna wanna wanna21:19
javispedrooh, hi RST38h.21:19
RST38hGeneral: Expect it around midnight EU time21:19
GeneralAntillesProbably just as well, though, since I'm assuming there's  Nokia Ninja with a knife to his throat.21:19
StskeepsRST38h: it is the background you see through it21:19
javispedroby putting 4 times the "register" keyword in the C code I got +5fps21:19
StskeepsRST38h: it just reads the background and applies it though21:19
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xnt14[work]hello maemo! :P21:20
RST38hSts: <disappointment> :)21:20
StskeepsRST38h: hey, it gets good performance :P21:20
xnt14[work]~seen b-man1621:20
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 15h 18m 25s ago, saying: 'i have no idea :('.21:20
RST38hGeneral: Twitter message indicates that he will publish it on around midnight EU time today.21:20
RST38hGeneral: IF he publishes it.21:20
GeneralAntillesRST38h, some post on Talk saying he decided against it to give Nokia more to announce.21:20
RST38hGeneral: Unless someone does it before me, I will try properly translating it tomorrow morning between 9:00 and 12:00 EU time21:21
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Stskeepshonestly though, what marketing advantage does announcements have?21:21
Stskeepsisn't rumours the best these days?21:21
RST38hGeneral: Post on talk? :)21:21
RST38hGeneral: talk poster interpreted Google translation of a Twitter message done in Russian, and the message was unclear even in Russian21:21
xnt14[work]~seen Brian_M21:23
infobotxnt14[work]: i haven't seen 'brian_m'21:23
xnt14[work]~seen BrianMckenzie21:23
infoboti haven't seen 'brianmckenzie', xnt14[work]21:23
* xnt14[work] stabs the irc logs21:23
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sjgadsbyHa! A (tenuous) link between Maemo devices and advertising:  I suppose it will have to happen eventually if Maemo is to go mainstream.21:27
sjgadsbyThe "Maemo doesn't work as advertised" rants may eventually have a chance at substance even.21:27
Stskeepssjgadsby: i would be afraid of the trolls getting hold of her..21:29
javispedrowell, it's advertised as world's 2009 best mobile device. I think world's best mobile device is the potato peeler, but Maemo doesn't do anything like that, so -> Maemo doesn't work as advertised.21:29
Stskeepsif it was a company doing maemo marketing ;)21:29
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RST38hsjgadsby: She is a troll21:31
sjgadsbyRST38h: No girls on the Internet?21:31
qwerty12_N810She's from London, must be a decent person21:31
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Stskeepsi wonder if the co-creation stuff will cause more people from nokia to be active on talk.*21:32
RST38hsjgadsby: No, other markers21:32
wazdStskeeps: well21:33
wazdStskeeps: again, you have 3 ways to switch wondows21:33
wazdStskeeps: that's kinda overkill :)21:33
Stskeepswazd: ah, the bar isn't the focus in those screenshots21:33
wazdStskeeps: ah, ok :)21:34
* RST38h read "you have 3 ways to switch widows"21:34
Stskeepswazd: i'm waiting for a mockup from you on how we can make an as-functional fremantle-like-but-also-mer-branded ui :)21:35
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Stskeepsbefore starting that work too much21:35
Stskeepswazd: this stuff is practically flexible enough to make simple stuff (fremantle look) and more advanced stuff, so :P21:36
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RST38hHmmm, there are three holes at the N900 surface21:39
RST38hCamera, light sensor and what? LED?21:39
sjgadsbyLED flash?21:39
javispedroon the surface? lol21:39
RST38hthat is specially for making Dracula photos of oneself21:40
RST38hMeanwhile: So 15-20 min to go/N90021:40
javispedroanti-steal device. temporarily blind whoever stole your N90021:40
javispedroburn a hole through his retinas with n900 laser21:40
RST38hrelease sarin gas?21:41
qwerty12_N810Built in taser?21:41
suihkulokkithat would be bad, they wouldn't let you use it on a airplane :P21:41
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sjgadsbyIt's where you screw in the joystick.21:41
javispedro^^first mod. use the taser battery to power the n800 after the "two hours of active use" run out.21:42
RST38hsjgadsby: BINGO!21:42
javispedro*n900. damn.21:42
mavhcwhat url should I be reading?21:42
zakkmyo did you guys notice21:42
zakkmone of the screenshots, the one that shows battery21:42
zakkmit has 75% battery life on it and says "1 hour active left"21:42
RST38hShit, next time we go on vacation, it will be to Alaska.21:42
javispedrozakkm, yes. but the reviewer said he got 6 hours out of it.21:42
RST38hOr some other cool, windy place21:42
RST38hzakkm: Wouldn't trust that meter21:43
RST38hN810 also runs for 5+ hours when playing video21:43
zakkmRST38h: i wouldnt either, but that was just funny to notice :P21:43
zakkmdepends the video :P21:44
zakkmand brightness21:44
mavhcand the player21:45
RST38hmostly depends on the CPU load21:45
zakkm??? doesnt everyone use mplayer?21:46
zakkmon the tablet21:46
mavhcnew power saving feature: camera tracks your eyeballs and turns off the screen when you're not looking at it21:46
RST38hand CPU load is usually 100% when paying video on that meager ARM21:46
zakkmmavhc:  whats powering the camera?21:46
mavhctiny generators attached to your eyeballs21:46
Andy80ehm... the review is already onlin on that site -.-21:47
sjgadsbyNuts. Mobile-Review uses "Freemantle" in their preview:
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qwerty12_N810Heh, systemui looks good with an HildonAppMenu21:50
RST38hOh yesssssss21:50
sjgadsbyAttitude's in a screenshot! Pre-installed?21:50
mavhcapparently apple use Linux OS in their phone21:50
qwerty12_N810sjgadsby: no, he's been installing stuff21:51
zakkmmavhc: since when? theres clear mac stuff in it21:51
javispedroI can rlready hear the black helicopters.21:51
zakkmits "linux os" because mac has most linux commands in it .21:51
zakkm:O i want that tablet21:51
mavhcsince linux = bsd21:52
zakkmguys... is it me or does look too much like canola?21:52
zakkmeven with the thing in bottom right21:52
RST38h1500mAh battery21:52
zakkmfor like exit21:52
zakkmstealers -.-21:52
sjgadsbyzakkm: Not a surprise. They brought Handful to Finland for a reason.21:52
* RST38h brings up a jar to salivate into21:53
zakkm <-- wow thats unique way .. copying mac's delete from desktop :P21:53
zakkmipod one21:53
RST38hWell, how many talk posters wanted iPhone?21:53
RST38hHere, your iPhone21:53
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: salivate? I'm getting a hard-on just by looking at the pics21:53
javispedroglad to know it has a rgb led.21:53
zakkm <--- wait so it is a phone?21:53
zakkm WOOH didnt change thumb keyboard.. odd since it has a hardware one :P21:54
javispedroLOL "Memory for installable appications": 18MiB.21:54
RST38hWeird hole at the top close to the camera button21:54
zakkmits a phone?21:54
RST38hqwerty: You are making me blush21:55
javispedroI hope that if they're using ubifs and a special rootfs it's bigger than 256MiB.21:55
zakkmThe new device will hit the stores late in 2009 with the price tag of about €550 (after the announcement there can be some price corrections).21:55
zakkmlol 550 euro!21:55
javispedroTask switching done in Exposé style.21:55
zakkm$862 -.- i can afford a sickass laptop for that21:56
zakkmand 2 iphones21:56
qwerty12_N810RST38h: hehe :p21:56
Andy80I really wanna kick this guy in the ass!!!!21:56
Andy80"For example, Apple managed to adapt Linux OS for their infamous Apple iPhone,"21:56
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Andy80MY GOD!21:56
RST38hAndy: Hehe21:56
Andy80an example of fucking useless asshole!!!!21:56
* Stskeepz salivates21:56
zakkmlcuk: they stole your "edit tags" :P
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Andy80the same QI of a GOAT!21:56
RST38hAndy: iPhone is overrated21:56
RST38hLinux, BSD, who cares21:56
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sjgadsbyRST38h: What /is/ that little square near the camera button?21:57
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RST38hstatus bar is not transparent :(21:57
Andy80he's a fucking RETARD21:57
RST38hsjgadsby: exactly my question21:57
gnutonHi there21:57
RST38hAndy: He is, but it is not what we all like him for :)21:57
javispedroit has agenda.21:57
lcukzakkm :)21:57
Andy80RST38h: I don't like him at all :P21:57
* lcuk falls over @ awesomeness21:58
RST38hApp Manager is seriously screwed style wise21:58
sjgadsbyRST38h: Could it be a release button for the rear cover? How's that work on the N97?21:58
RST38hAndy80: Well he is not a dollar bill...21:58
RST38hsjgadsby: naah21:58
zakkmit will be fine21:58
Stskeepzi must say fremantle looks sweet :)21:58
RST38hsjgadsby: I am almost tempeted to think it is an ir sensor21:58
zakkmlol $862 canadian ... for n900 apparently21:58
zakkmhow does anyone afford that21:59
Stskeepzit looks fremantle friendly21:59
sjgadsbyRST38h: Hmm. Yes, it does look like one.21:59
Stskeepz862? not bad21:59
javispedrouh oh.21:59
suihkulokkizakkm: by carried subsides21:59
javispedro"Perhaps they’ll decide to throw in a stylus into the box, much like the one that came with the Nokia N97. " ......21:59
zakkmsubsides frm what?21:59
qwerty12_N810zakkm: I thought Canada was overpriced anyway wrt phones?21:59
RST38hAnd please remember that price differs by country21:59
zakkmnot at all21:59
zakkmwe just dont have alot21:59
zakkmthen again im in a huge city, so it might be different22:00
VDVsxJaffa's App, eheh22:00
suihkulokkizakkm: you are aware that carriers subsides phones when you take them with a contract?22:00
zakkmour phone selection sucks completely but its not expensive22:00
zakkmcontracts suck in canada22:00
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Stskeepzmicrosd instead of minisd, woo22:00
Stskeepzif not misunderstood22:00
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zakkmi dont get why it has thumb keyboard, if it only supports n90022:00
zakkmand it has a hardware one22:00
lcukzakkm, that could just be a for now thing :)22:01
wazdbayan :(22:01
zakkmwazd: nice with the nonenglish one :P22:01
mavhcbecause it's already in maemo22:01
zakkmStskeepz: so now you know what to make mer look like eh? :)22:02
lcuk18.9mb for apps :O22:02
* javispedro wonders if the failure to mention the correct os name for the iphone will attract more attention that the n900 review, specially considering the history of that site.22:02
wazdzakkm: screenshots are international :)22:02
RST38hjavis: It will throw iPhone trolls off balance indeed22:02
mavhcwhy can't you just install apps on the sd card in maemo?22:02
zakkmhow did this person obtain one anyways?22:03
Andy80javispedro: I'm going to comment the news and say he's a fucking LAMER :)22:03
zakkmwaitt guys whats the resolution of it?22:03
zakkmcant seem to find22:04
wazdthis baby gonna rock the world22:04
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wazdmaemo+sync+fast cpu = ohmygodgimmetwonow!22:05
RST38hThe Fremantle UI widgets are absolutely atrocious though22:05
zakkm"this smartphone is built on ARM coretex-A8 cpu and carries 32gb of internal memory onboard" what do you mean 18mb is left for apps?22:05
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RST38hPerson who came up with this design and layout better be fired before they get into Harmattan22:05
Stskeepzzakkm: that part threw me a bit off balance too22:05
javispedrodidn't someone tell me they're still using ubifs?22:05
javispedroif they're using ubifs, there's a nand chip apart from the main emmc somewhere.22:06
wazd <- task switcher :)22:06
zakkmi mean they could be using 256mb onboard onboard... in linux whatever, and then 32gb would be fat... so windows could recognize it22:06
Stskeepzon the other hand this thing -really- lends itself to clone-to-SD22:06
zakkmwazd: did you see they stole "canola" ? :P22:06
javispedroprobably that chip is 512MiB and the new rootfs is 500MiB ;)22:06
RST38h"Perhaps theyll decide to throw in a stylus into the box, much like the one that came with the Nokia N97. "22:06
qwerty12_N810He didn't show how it works as a phone physically. Then again, it supports portrait.22:07
zakkmStskeepz: clone to " internal memory" more like.. 32gb? :P22:07
zakkmwhy buy a SD22:07
wazdzakkm: well, icons in a row thats a definite sign of Canola :D22:07
Stskeepzzakkm: internal memory is SD22:07
zakkmyes it is.. did you see the bottom right?22:07
zakkmthey put "quit" in the same spot22:07
lcukisnt that a stylus?22:07
javispedrolcuk: thank you and god.22:07
sjgadsbylcuk: Looks like one to me.22:07
zakkmdont for me22:07
javispedrowhat a review then.22:07
zakkmcould be a wifi switch22:07
* lcuk cheers22:07
zakkmand the other could be for charger22:08
javispedrounless he's talking about second stylus.22:08
wazdJaffa's Attitude! :D22:08
zakkmwazd: now you know how to skin mer ?:P hah22:08
GeneralAntillesIt looks like S60 5th. . . .22:09
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javispedroGeneralAntilles, maybe that was the intention.22:09
wazdzakkm: Mer will have unique style :)22:09
fiferboyDoes Nokia Maps come with routing?22:09
RST38hGeneral: They intended it to look like S6022:10
javispedrolooks line S60 = is S60 for most people. so current Nokia buyers not scared; then when then complain about their S60 apps not working close shop and relocate to africa.22:10
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: it'd be a bad Wayfinder replacement if it didn't :)22:10
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RST38hGeneral: Because that is what Maemo is supposed to replace ;)22:10
wazdoh, portrait mode!22:10
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: I mean, come with it out of the box, rather than a separate subscription...22:10
GeneralAntillesExchange mail22:10
javispedro"Compared to S60, the N900's boot time is much faster,"22:10
javispedroS60 must suck.22:10
zakkmwow rotation works? :D22:11
Stskeepzat least we still have old classics such as X Terminal and Blocks.22:11
RST38hzakkm: at least for one app22:11
javispedro"There is a partial compatibility with old applications" <-- someone should tell him he's testing NEW applications, not Diablo's ;)22:11
RST38hGeneral: Another hint to the fact that this is targeted as S60 replacement22:11
RST38hjavis: He is not a technical guy22:12
javispedro(or maybe not to hide the fact some fremantle apps don't work yet)22:12
RST38hjavis: When he starts talking technology a lot of details get messed up22:12
zakkmisnt it still in beta?22:12
* lcuk loves the theme22:12
* RST38h is disappointed at the non-transparent status bar and the absolutely hideous dialogs22:13
zakkmthere should be some sort of "fremantle hacker edition" without opengl :P22:13
lcuki mean colors and style :)22:13
RST38hthe rest rules =)22:13
javispedroI like the icons, but not the darkness.22:13
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* Andy80 really wants to write a post about this stupid guy who did the review.... my granmother has more knowledge than him -.-22:13
Stskeepzjavispedro: there's a bright theme22:13
lcukjavispedro, dark is better for a mob device22:13
RST38hicons are from s60e522:13
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lcukplus, at night its easier on eyes22:13
javispedroon a sunny day, dark theme?22:14
RST38hAndy80: You can rave in his livejouirnal22:14
StskeepzAndy80: can't you just join us in enjoying that Nokia/Maemo Devices are actually putting out a sane device that might be what makes a breakthrough for Maemo?22:14
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javispedroso this is how the only GNU/Linux smartphone looks.22:14
lcukand yeah zakkm \@/ i am doin taggin now lol22:14
Stskeepzif it's really out in september, this will certainly help hype up till then22:15
GeneralAntillesThey turned MicroB into the shitty S60 browser.22:15
RST38hAll right, seen enough, going back22:15
RST38hYou mean MicroB is NOT shitty?22:15
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GeneralAntillesThat stupid, obnoxious, piece of shit fullscreen toggle button. . . .22:15
javispedroprobably fades out after a few seconds22:15
javispedrowould look very appleish.22:15
Andy80Stskeepz: I do prefer not doing comment until it's officially out :) when I'll have the possibility to have one of them I can express my hopinion :P22:15
GeneralAntillesIt's incredibly in the way on S60.22:15
RST38hGood General just can't be pleased no matter what...22:16
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RST38hSo what that it looks like S60? If it WORKS, who cares?22:16
StskeepzAndy80: *shrug* :) a leak's a leak and most of this stuff has been around in pieces already22:16
lcukwazd, zakkm is right, lets get something along those lines on mer :)22:16
RST38hMake a new theme, and it will look different22:16
GeneralAntillesRST38h, this particular feature of S60 DOESN'T come close to working.22:16
RST38hUse Tear for the browsing22:16
RST38hGeneral: the arrow thing?22:16
GeneralAntillesThat thing makes we want to start stabbing people and/or things.22:17
StskeepzzerojayPC: excellent comment about bugs and pictures :>22:17
zakkmlcuk: did you look?22:17
RST38hYea, it is kinda messy, good theory not confirmed by practice22:17
sjgadsbyThe browser UI will be open this time, yes? So, we kill the arrow.22:17
lcukyeah, hence :D22:17
javispedrokill the arrow, put back the "fit to width" option, etc.22:17
javispedroforward port the diablo browser :P22:17
RST38hYes I love my fit to width option22:17
RST38hYou are all saying it is broken, you evil bastards22:18
RST38hAnd I lovie, KLove, LOVE it22:18
* lcuk wonders whether the calendar can accept sketches22:18
sjgadsbyRST38h: You're sicker than I thought.22:18
RST38hWanna it back. Where is my nuclear device?22:18
javispedrothe reviewer says nothing about the laser!!22:19
javispedronor the compass!!22:19
RST38hjavis: that is what he has decided to withheld until the official annoncement22:19
wazdEldar writes: "It's too early to tell you bout the details of the CPU"22:19
wazdWe knew them for a year, dude :D22:19
RST38hOk, I am out for now. Will try to get back over GPRS22:19
qwerty12_N810Modest has to work for Fremantle.22:19
RST38hwazd: Maybe it is going to be a Samsung after all?22:19
wazdRST38h: Tegra :)22:20
RST38hwazd: Same as in 3GS?22:20
RST38hTegra is ARM9 afaik22:20
qwerty12_N810You can't sell a smart-phone with an e-mail client that sucks dick.22:20
wazdRST38h: No, he told that it's Cortex :)22:20
RST38hThey didn't take their time to research ARM CPU market22:20
RST38hwazd: Samsung is a Cortex chip22:20
RST38hwazd: Used in iPhone 3GS22:20
javispedroso, how many taps from any app to launch x-term?22:21
javispedroI count a lot.22:21
wazdRST38h: oh22:21
wazdRST38h: I'm a lamer in these things :)22:21
wazdEaster Egg :)22:22
wazdHardware layout: English, netherlands22:22
GeneralAntillesHow many Euros does the N97 go for?22:22
lardmanI may have missed the answer to this, but why does mobilre-review have an n900?22:22
wazdReady for the Summit? :)22:22
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, put it on the desktop?22:22
wazdlardman: Eldar sleeps with Nokia PR Manager :D22:22
javispedrohow many taps to get to desktop.22:22
qwerty12_N810wazd: hehe22:22
lardmanwazd: :) ok22:23
GeneralAntillesOne, as far as I know.22:23
javispedrothe top-left button seems to activate task switcher.22:23
wazd <- stoopid layout22:24
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javispedrooh, btw, Nokia maps app has transparent title bar.22:24
javispedrois there public api for that?22:24
wazd"," is under symbol sign and "^" is on the main pad22:24
wazdhow often do you use ^22:24
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lcukmaybe they invented a new programming language just for this device :D22:25
lcukone that needs lots of ^22:25
GeneralAntillesPeople need to get over the capacitive insanity.22:25
javispedromaybe they invented a new _human_ language.22:25
Stskeepzwazd: ^_^22:25
sjgadsbywazd: You need "^" to type about the new Symbian stuff.22:25
qwerty12_N810lcuk: if user == NORTHERNER; then GTFO22:25
* lcuk goes22:25
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Andy80LOL "FREEmantle" :D22:26
GeneralAntillesWhat's the N97's price in Euros?22:26
javispedrodoes elder allow comments?22:27
wazdFreeDismantle :D22:27
GeneralAntillesThe notch on the top next to the camera button is weird.22:27
Andy80javispedro: luckly for him not....22:27
fiferboyWhy did it have to be such a detailed leak?  Waiting is going to be especially hard now...22:27
javispedroFreeDismantle, that's what they're going to do tomorrow when Nokians start working on Harmattan.22:27
lardmanhmm, strange, no windows whatsoever22:28
wazdGeneralAntilles: IRDA? :)22:28
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: IR window?22:28
wazdlooks like Andrews think the ame way :D22:28
GeneralAntilleswazd/fiferboy, that was my guess when I saw the first set of image leaks.22:28
GeneralAntillesBut it doesn't look quite right for that somehow.22:28
Stskeepzjavispedro: i bloody well hope so22:28
fiferboywazd: We should just share a nick22:29
wazdWith new tablet they gonna Harm-attan everybody :)22:29
lcuklardman, indows?22:29
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GeneralAntillesSo I guess no 2mm power plug?22:30
GeneralAntillesThat's too bad.22:30
GeneralAntillesGonna suck for host-mode.22:30
javispedroyou'll need a triple adaptor ;)22:30
lardmanWell, that really is a leak22:30
wazdmedia player looks kinda old :)22:30
javispedrothey could do a usb otg cable with a single power source for both devices22:31
wazdThat's a desktop switcher!22:32
wazdor enabler22:32
wazdor desktop something :)22:32
javispedrodesktop waste-of-time ;)22:32
fiferboyThe third checked item looks like the current wallpaper22:33
lardmanwazd: looks like #73 is the switcher too22:33
* javispedro had already grabbed the popcorn, but seeing there are no comments in the leak he'd better store them again.22:33
lardmanscreenshots are pretty though :)22:34
javispedrogood news troll fans everywhere: engadget's got it already, and they enabled comments!22:34
* Stskeepz ponders why his debconf part 2 post hasn't showed up on planet yet22:35
javispedro"Resistive is a bit dissapointing", "Wow unlocked price of €550 is better than i thought!", "I think it's resistive because RX-51 has much bigger display than the iPhone/Pre", "Maemo 5 is definitely finger friendly so capacitive screens in the future wouldn't be a problem for it"22:36
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Stskeepzi wonder where two-touch is used22:36
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GeneralAntillesEngadget comments are funny22:37
Stskeepzor if tap-and-hold is still in use22:37
GeneralAntillesIt's like they bus in idiots just to comment on their blog.22:37
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: from YouTube? :)22:37
javispedroGeneralAntilles, in that case they've untapped the same source of money YouTube did :)22:37
javispedroNokia should campaing in favour of resistive screens.22:38
javispedroeven engadget says "disappointed we are in the Rover's resistive touchscree"22:38
javispedroApple's marketing arm is too big.22:38
lardmanpah, who needs capacitive22:39
jhfordwhen the mircob browser tries to download a file and you click open, where does the file save to temporarily22:39
qwerty12_N810jhford: /var/tmp22:39
zakkmwhats the difference between capacitive and resistive?22:39
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Stskeepzam i weird for not really seeing why you would need 3d ability in the desktop?22:39
Stskeepzexcept for expose22:39
lardmanzakkm: capacitive is less accurate22:39
GeneralAntilleszakkm, capacitive is less PRECISE, uses more power and is more expensive.22:40
lardmanzakkm: capacitive usually does multitouch, while resistive needs another layer to do that22:40
qwerty12_N810Stskeepz: To beat the iPhone, you  need a shitton of effects :)22:40
* Andy80 wants a screenshot of the sound quality :D22:40
Stskeepzqwerty12_N810: hehe22:40
GeneralAntillesResistive is less accurate, more failure prone, and more difficult to use.22:40
zakkmAndy80: isnt that impossible for most humans22:40
* lardman wants a screenshot of the DSP task list ;)22:40
GeneralAntillesCapacitive does multitouch, is easy to use, and is generally adored by idiots everywhere.22:41
GeneralAntillesResistive is more precise, less costly, and can be used with a stylus.22:41
Stskeepzi wonder if there's a connection between liking capacitive and fart apps22:41
wazdI can say hello in his LJ if you want :)22:41
wazdor ask something22:42
GeneralAntillesThe big thing people like about capacitive is that it's generally more responsive than a cheap resistive display.22:42
* fiferboy is bitter that lsbc, personal menu, and personal launcher are no longer needed22:42
GeneralAntillesPlus, iPhone.22:42
wazdGeneralAntilles: they compare 3 yo resistive with brand new capacitive22:42
wazdGeneralAntilles: that's a horseshit22:42
GeneralAntillesBut a good resistive display gives you better precision and more input options.22:43
GeneralAntillesUses way less power, too.22:43
Pavlovhaving to use a stylus sucks22:43
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GeneralAntillesPavlov, right, which is where the GOOD part of a resistive display comes in.22:43
GeneralAntillesMy N800 has hardly seen a stylus in the past 2 years.22:43
Pavlovresistive displays don't feel good to touch22:44
Pavlovsure it can be done22:44
GeneralAntillesThat depends entirely on the display.22:44
Pavlovyou learn to use your fingernail22:44
lcukwas nice to touch em in copenhagen22:44
lcuki hope they used the same screen22:44
lardmanwhat do we reckon the arrow on the kb does? middle row, left-hand side?22:44
qwerty12_N810Maybe fullscreen? The icon for fullscreen has a similar arrow22:45
GeneralAntillesPavlov, ever tried doing real precision work with a capacitive display?22:45
GeneralAntillesIt sucks.22:45
lcuklardman, since the alt symbols on the keyboard are blue and in the top right corner22:45
lardmanqwerty12_N810: ah, and there I was hoping for Tab :)22:45
lcuki would imagine..22:46
sjgadsbylardman: Yep. It's the new "Fn".22:46
lardmanWhat about the Sym key above it then?22:46
qwerty12_N810Ah, of course. *bangs head*22:46
sjgadsbylardman: The new "Chr"?22:46
lardmanyeah perhaps22:47
Macer12 hours later22:47
Macerand it's still rebuilding world and system22:47
Macerdoes mer upgrade with apt-get upgrade?22:47
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zakkmMacer: to be exact it would be dist-upgrade22:48
Macerah. that's what i meant22:48
zakkmto upgrade version. to update packages like apps, it would be upgrade22:48
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zakkmbut no not really still too early stage of distro :P22:48
Macerah ok22:48
Macerjust checking22:48
zakkmsome upgrade, some dont22:48
Macerthat would be kind of neat22:48
zakkmit will ;p22:49
wazdI've asked Eldar bout that window22:50
wazdnear the camera22:50
Luke-Jrwhy the obsession with touchscreens anyhow?22:51
wazd20 megs for installable apps is weird :)22:51
Luke-JrI'd be happy with a simple eraser mouse22:51
Stskeepzwazd: he did install quite a lot of sstuf22:52
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aolthe mobile-review review of n900 is pure sex :)22:52
aolit looks much better than I ever imagined22:53
* lardman feels newly motivated/enthused having seen some new images22:53
wazdStskeepz: I don't think there is much stuff for M5 right now22:53
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Stskeepzwazd: extras isn't bad22:53
wazdStskeepz: I want to see some games/huge apps too :)22:53
Andy80wazd: maybe the OS takes about 31,9 Gb :P22:53
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qwerty12_N810wazd: it'll most likely include images, and music etc22:53
GeneralAntilleslardman|tv, sadly it didn't do much for me.22:54
Andy80qwerty12_N810: it includes 5 Lost's seasons :)22:55
wazdqwerty12_N810: nope, he has 5Gigs of something on flash22:55
Luke-Jrwill N900 support multi-touch?22:55
qwerty12_N810Andy80: hehe22:55
wazdLuke-Jr: no22:56
qwerty12_N810wazd: maybe he was just lazy to move some from the flash? :)22:56
JaffaRST38h: "Mail for Exchange" (if it makes it through) would tick some of your boxes, yes?22:56
Andy80maybe! if you touch with a finger a touch your nose it zooms in, if you touch your mouth it zooms out22:56
Andy80revolutionary :P22:56
wazdqwerty12_N810: well, this question is already asked in LJ, let's wait for the answer :)22:56
qwerty12_N810wazd: yessir :)22:57
lardman|tvGeneralAntilles: I think it's good to see some proof that the thing exists at last :)22:57
lardman|tvGeneralAntilles: am looking forward to the new device22:57
qwerty12_N810lardman|tv: on Vodafone? ;P22:58
Luke-Jrmultitouch is done in software for resistive touchscreens22:58
lardman|tvqwerty12_N810: well, we'll see22:58
Luke-Jrmaybe we can even port it to N8x022:58
lardman|tvqwerty12_N810: I've moved to pay as you go now, in preparation for something else22:58
qwerty12_N810lardman|tv: I was being sarcastic, but...22:58
RST38hwhat have i missed?22:59
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lardman|tvanyway, must go back to the TV as no amount of enthusiasm will raise me from the dead when my wife kills me for ignoring her all evening ;)22:59
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fiferboyIn the text of his article he says 1500 mAh battery, but the picture shows a 1350 mAh battery...23:00
GeneralAntillesWait, Nokia Maps wont pull addresses from Contacts?23:00
qwerty12_N810lardman|tv: XChat exists on Maemo for a reason ;)23:00
RST38hso he was wrong bite him23:00
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qwerty12_N810Will that get me his NXX?23:01
GeneralAntillesI can't believe Maps doesn't support landscape, either.23:01
fiferboyJust wondering which is right - I assume the picture unless it is showing a different battery23:01
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RST38h1350 8s right23:02
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Proteousmaps on my n97 supports landscape23:03
Andy80GeneralAntilles: where have you read it?23:03
fwrnandodon't you mean it doesn't support portrait? cause there's a landscape screenshot of maps23:03
Proteousalthough the built in compass gets confused when it is inside my car and close to the dashboard23:03
RST38hmaps screenshot indicaztes otherwise23:04
RST38h(while n810 kbd sucks moose balls)23:04
Proteousit's too bad they didn't make the screen tilt like the n97, it's really nice23:04
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RST38hless reliable though23:05
Proteousalthough the n900 is a bit bigger, probably harder to make strong23:05
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Macerno pipe on n810 qwerty23:05
Macerwtf nokia23:05
Vulcanispeople have bound it to capslock I think23:06
Macerno pipe?!23:06
fwrnandothey're going consumer oriented with maemo23:06
RST38hok mujrtazin promises more data on upcoming maemo models in 3 days23:06
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Proteousscrew pipe, give me alt and ctrl to control screen and irssi23:06
Maceris that the mole?23:06
RST38hmacerḠnokia is antidrugs23:07
MacerProteous: there is alt and ctrl23:07
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RST38hok, i am giving up on n810 kbd23:07
Macerwhy? it isnt too bad23:08
wazdok, you can install to the 32gb part :)23:08
GAN800Andy80, 5800 Maps.23:08
Macerwazd: from what it seems the n900 will have more than enough power to be a laptop23:09
RST38hhe says 3 maemo devices are in the pipeline23:09
Maceras long as there is kb support23:09
wazdhe doesn't know what's that window23:09
zakkm*waits for the $100 tablet :P"23:09
Macerbt or otherwise23:09
wazdcan't look at it now23:10
Macerzakkm: that is the n810 ihn a few months23:10
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: osso-af-startup says that only RX-51 has internal MMC. Maybe it will get updated though...23:10
zakkm:D ima buy it then23:10
zakkmwish i can sell my n800 now though :)23:10
Maceralthough on amazon the wimax ver  is going for 120023:10
Macergive it to Stskeeps23:10
RST38halso, an interesting detail on iphone in the comments: it appears that some iphone owners have to operate it with their noses in winter (hands in mittens)23:10
GAN800N97 buyers are going to feel like such douches at €550.23:10
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Macerthats what i did with mine ;)23:10
zakkmi need to sell it to buy my N810 for $100 in a few months.23:10
StskeepsRST38h: iphone's won't go well with finns23:11
MacerGAN800: haha23:11
Macern97 has a nice cam?23:11
Macerlike the n95?23:11
RST38hqwerty: imho external mmc is sufficient23:11
Macern98 will prolly do 108023:12
JaffaWhat's the retail price of an unlocked N97?23:12
RST38h"nice cam" and "cell phone" are incompatible :]23:12
MacerRST38h: depends23:12
qwerty12_N810RST38h: agreed, but it does make one wonder what else may be gone :) (if that osso-af-startup is current)23:12
Maceri LOVED my n95 cam23:12
Macerreplaced my camcorder23:13
Maceri have a young son tho23:13
Macerhad something to record23:13
fwrnandothe N95 camera was great23:13
Macerand who knows, you mightg be witness to a major event23:13
fwrnandohaven't tried a N97 yet, but it seems to be the same quality23:14
fwrnando(except video recording)23:14
Macerwith dvd quality proof on your phone23:14
RST38hqwerty: there is a limited set of things that can be gone23:14
Macerno video??23:14
fwrnandoif RX-51 gets the same camera as the N95 I'll be happy23:14
fwrnandono, it has video, but sound is muffled or something23:14
fwrnando(from what I've read!)23:14
Macerfwrnando: doubtful23:14
Andy80one moment!23:14
Macern95 was awesome23:14
Maceri miss mine23:15
Andy80I cannot see the most importan feature!23:15
fwrnandostill have mine here :P23:15
RST38hwazd: fallic cookies!23:15
Andy80where is COPY-PASTE?!?!?!23:15
Macerhave a g1 now23:15
Maceri wanted to blow up att23:15
fwrnandoeldar mentioned in his twitter he can copy paste from the browser23:15
Macerhad to switch because they became major fail on quality23:15
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fwrnandohave a 5800 currently, on a prepaid AT&T sim23:15
qwerty12_N810Andy80: the X Terminal, at least, exposes copy in the menu when you highlight something :)23:15
RST38hmacer: a worthy goal, do you know where their cables are? =)23:16
wazdAndy80: Eldar told that it's everywhere :)23:16
Proteousthey said that it has the same camera as the n97, which is amazing IMHO23:16
wazdn97 video example23:16
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qwerty12_N810Proteous: planning to switch? :)23:17
mavhcI mostly bought an n810 because it's half the price of smartphones23:17
fiferboywazd: I was SURE that was going to be a rickroll23:17
wazdfiferboy: hah :)23:18
fwrnandoaren't we above rickrolls? :P23:18
Andy80btw: why the Bookmark screenshot displays "" :P ?23:18
wazdanother video with mode descent sound23:18
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fwrnandohm, if I had some N95 videos uploaded23:18
fwrnandorecorded a concert with mine last year or so, sounds brilliant23:18
kfxI found a pretty enlightening QT development strategy video:
Proteousqwerty12_N810: possibly... :)23:19
qwerty12_N810heh :)23:19
ProteousI love my n97, but I would love it more if the processor wasn't so slow...23:19
wazd <- that is quite impressive anyway23:19
VDVsxAndy80, Future Maemo website23:20
fwrnandoyeah, samsung is beating nokia lately :(23:20
fwrnandohope the cortex a8 in the rx51 is a sign of things to come23:20
qwerty12_N810I'm just glad that Maemo isn't a second-class citizen, behind Symbian anymore..23:20
wazdfwrnando: well, 720p video with a phone is a bit overkill23:21
wazdfwrnando: especially with crappy mic and lens23:21
fwrnandothe more pixels, the merrier, imho :P23:21
mavhc1080p or it didn't happen23:21
fwrnando(as long as it doesn't impact batt life or storage)23:21
wazdfwrnando: it impacts battery very hard23:21
RST38hthey should add display and camera resolution for the marketing brochures =)23:21
wazdfwrnando: Omnia HD can shgoot 720p for 40 minutes or so :)23:22
krzysz00is it possible to cross-compile for the nokia without scratchbox?23:22
RST38hkrzys: yes23:22
GAN800Andy80, Tableteer replacement.23:22
mavhcif you're bringing out a new phone and it doesn't do 4k video you're wasting your time23:22
krzysz00just need an armel compiler, right?23:22
RST38hbut with a lot of work23:22
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, bastard son of Nokia, ehheh23:22
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RST38hyes, you will have to set up a toolchain23:23
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: "I told you to  have it aborted!" :p23:23
krzysz00wait, is there imagemagick for scratchbox23:23
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RST38hmurtazin says there are more input methods, external ones23:26
javispedroevery time I read engadget  "how bad we feel about the resistive screen" I feel sick23:27
fwrnandoreading engadget news about nokia is sickening, period :P23:27
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Does he mention anything about handwriting? (Not that I care, personally, my handwriting is God-awful...)23:27
fwrnandoand  I wonder what he meant by that23:27
javispedroi'm sure there's someone at nokia marketing yelling "why dont we have a capacitative-wha-his-name thingie"23:27
fwrnandodid he try a bt keyboard?23:27
RST38hqwerty: he does not23:28
qwerty12_N810Ah, right, thanks23:28
fwrnandoI want to believe the whole "resistive is a must for asian language input" thingy23:28
fwrnandobut it's getting hard :P23:28
RST38hbut it is true23:29
RST38hyou have to have good resolution for handwriting23:29
fwrnandoa friend has an ipod touch, and from the couple chinese characters I knew that I tried to input, they were recognized fine23:30
fwrnandoof course my finger in the way was kind of a nuisance23:30
fwrnandooh, quick question, by the way23:31
fwrnandocan you install additional fonts for the web browser to maemo easily?23:31
fwrnandoS60 renders everything with Nokia's sans-serif, which is... not cool23:31
javispedromicrob does not in diablo.23:32
fwrnandoI see :(23:32
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javispedroi mean it does not render everything in nokia sans23:32
javispedroi guess is uses standard freetype config&file locations23:33
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fwrnando looks like it's using arial23:33
zakkmfwrnando: or it could just be reading what the website specifies for font, rather than browser defaults.23:33
fwrnandomobile-review's css asks for Verdana23:34
lcukmaybe thats simply not specifically available23:34
javispedrobut you can install it23:34
lcuklooks to have done a decent job renderin tho23:34
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fwrnandofont management is something people usually don't care about23:35
fwrnandobut who knows23:35
javispedrowtf of course it's done a great job, it's microb.23:35
javispedroit may be slow but gets the job done23:35
fwrnandoI also wonder about multiple languages support23:35
fwrnandocan maemo currently display east asian, hebrew, cyrillic etc out of the box?23:36
fwrnando(my only maemo experiences was playing with a couple N810s on a Nokia store, sorry :P)23:36
javispedrofwrnando, give me a test page23:36
qwerty12_N810Diablo comes with a Chinese font by default23:36
fwrnandohm, second23:36
krzysz00can i get imagemagick in scratchbox arm23:37
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fwrnandospecifically  The example.test names, tell me how many display23:37
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javispedroi see chinese, greek, japanese and russian23:38
javispedrothe rest are the usual pango white boxes23:39
fwrnandohm, not optimal, but way better than what I have in S6023:39
fwrnandothanks :)23:39
javispedromaemo is gtk23:39
javispedrowhatever you can do in desktop gnome you can do in device23:39
javispedro(with more or less effort :P)23:40
fwrnandohaha, as long as it gives me the opportunity, I'm happy with it23:40
fwrnando(had to do some weird font modification to get japanese on my 5800 while keeping nokia sans)23:41
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fwrnandoooh, thanks23:47
javispedroeverything done from the device, it rules :)23:48
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fwrnandoI wish my 5800 had enough ram to do the same :P23:48
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fwrnando after some hacking, on my 580023:52
fwrnandoeven so, they look so bad at 100% zoom :(23:53
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bstockso, anyone know yet if the new maemo will run on earlier tablets, like the n810?23:55
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ShadowJKbstock, it will not23:57
ShadowJKIt would be too slow23:57
zakkmthere should be a non animated port :P23:57
zakkmlike static23:57
bstockyeah that'd be nice23:57
ShadowJKThe new tablet has hardware 3D acceleration and about twice the CPU power23:57
zakkmtwice, isnt it more than twice?23:57
zakkmtwice doesnt seem right23:57
ShadowJKYeah, more than twice23:57
ShadowJKdepending on what you do23:57
ShadowJKit's a bit of an apples vs oranges comparison23:58
zakkmbut cpu power itself23:58
bstockcompletely different processor too23:58
javispedrosince flash is as-usual slow, i guess only "twice" enough23:59
zakkmits more than twice im suree ofit23:59
ShadowJKzakkm, yes even there23:59

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