| lcuk | thought i would wake up a monster :D | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| javispedro | well, up so far I wasn't able to get any h264 broadcast here, so good luck guysoft :P | 00:02 |
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| javispedro | I was surprised to see there's no decent snes emu for the iphone | 00:06 |
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| javispedro | the only one I could find (snes4iphone) is also a drpocketsnes port but with the C core afaik. | 00:06 |
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| javispedro | so if that is faster than my port I'll suicide ;P | 00:07 |
| johnsq | javispedro: why not ported zsnes? | 00:08 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Thanks for your work, BTW. I'd never predicted that I'd see a SNES game running at a decent speed on my N810. :) | 00:09 |
| javispedro | zsnes has loads of i386 asm up to the point there's not even a amd64 port yet. | 00:09 |
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| javispedro | "decent", "decent".... depending on game :P | 00:10 |
| johnsq | javispedro: aha, but amd64 isn't needed, because 32bit is still running. | 00:10 |
| lcuk | javispedro, become a marketer :) show off the games which work well | 00:11 |
| lcuk | and remember to mutter WMMV :) | 00:11 |
| lcuk | YMMV | 00:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Super Mario All Stars seems to be OK :D | 00:11 |
| javispedro | you tried? | 00:11 |
| lcuk | ok or kickass? | 00:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Kinda... | 00:11 |
| javispedro | ah, with the no input version. | 00:11 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810, put this http://depot.javispedro.com/drnoksnes/drnoksnes.txt into ~/apps/ and try the extras-devel version | 00:13 |
| javispedro | pupnik ^^^ too | 00:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Thanks! | 00:13 |
| javispedro | if you have time of course, don't want to pressure you into bricking your tablet................ | 00:14 |
| javispedro | joking ;) | 00:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | The N800 is heading that way, so it's pretty much the device where I do anything with it :p | 00:15 |
| pupnik | noted, ty javispedro | 00:16 |
| javispedro | if the gui does nothing.... dbus issue (i still have to look at it), the binary is at /usr/games/drnoksnes | 00:18 |
| javispedro | (it does something on my tablet, of course :) ) | 00:19 |
| zerojayPC | http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/16/bunch-of-unreleased-nokias-caught-chatting-amongst-themselves/ | 00:19 |
| johnsq | hehe just reading it on gizmodo | 00:21 |
| Jaffa | No Rover from the look of it | 00:25 |
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| lcuk | did the fcc document show the dimensions of the rover | 00:28 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: I don't believe so | 00:29 |
| lcuk | shame, i couldv started fabbing a new cradle | 00:29 |
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| VDVsx | maemo game expert!! | 00:40 |
| VDVsx | that's you qwerty12_N810 :) ^ | 00:40 |
| VDVsx | does Donkey Kong Country runs on n8x0 ? | 00:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | How's that me? It's javispedro's work :p | 00:40 |
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| VDVsx | I guess you have more experience *playing* and testing :P | 00:41 |
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| lcuk | qwerty is actually a nokian and he sits in a spherical room with walls coated in different tablets | 00:43 |
| VDVsx | lol | 00:43 |
| javispedro | ah, he's the matrix architect then :D | 00:44 |
| lcuk | behind him hes got 770s, at the left its the 800s to his right, 810s and infront the rovers | 00:44 |
| lcuk | above and below are his narcotic tablet supply | 00:45 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: was the start button mapped to anything? | 00:48 |
| javispedro | space bar I think | 00:48 |
| javispedro | ah, you're trying on N800 :P | 00:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | No, N810 :) | 00:49 |
| javispedro | someday there'll be an actual key mapping gui :) for now see the .txt file :) | 00:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Thanks :) | 00:50 |
| VDVsx | what is the best SNES emulator available from maemo ? | 00:50 |
| * VDVsx grabs Donkey Kong Country rom | 00:51 | |
| javispedro | VDVsx, depends on what you want: speed or accuracy ;) | 00:51 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, all of the above :) | 00:52 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, I want to be able to run DK country, if possible :) | 00:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Turns out that renaming it from drnoksnes.txt to DrNokSnes.txt actually helps... | 00:54 |
| javispedro | lol sorry! | 00:54 |
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| javispedro | are you trying sm all-starts? I'd expect 30/60 fps, with sound. | 00:55 |
| * javispedro meant all-stars. | 00:56 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Yep, averaging around 28 | 00:56 |
| * qwerty12_N810 can live w/out sound. He usually has the media player open :) | 00:57 | |
| pupnik | aww ... maybe for tetris | 00:58 |
| pupnik | but not for other stu | 00:58 |
| pupnik | ff like the rpgs | 00:58 |
| pupnik | though, come to think of it - a lot of games on snes were annoying musically - fighting games etc | 00:59 |
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| javispedro | :P I like the SMKart music | 00:59 |
| javispedro | (even though it's one of costly games, up to the 10/60 fps mark :( ) | 01:00 |
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| * VDVsx installs DrNokSnes | 01:02 | |
| * javispedro wishes VDVsx good luck :) | 01:02 | |
| VDVsx | javispedro, bad one ? | 01:02 |
| javispedro | oh, it at least seems to work for someone :) | 01:03 |
| javispedro | alpha-status I guess. | 01:04 |
| VDVsx | bet it won't work for me :P | 01:04 |
| johnsq | javispedro: you can write dsp code to get faster emulation | 01:05 |
| javispedro | rendering, rendering is the problem. | 01:05 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx, DKC may actually work :D | 01:11 |
| javispedro | 25/50 (pal) | 01:11 |
| VDVsx | got a nice black screen with DrNokSnes | 01:11 |
| VDVsx | ;) | 01:12 |
| javispedro | when launching game? | 01:12 |
| VDVsx | yup | 01:12 |
| VDVsx | and my tablet is somewhat 'crashed' | 01:12 |
| javispedro | ah, xsp left enabled. | 01:13 |
| javispedro | it crashed. bad rom? | 01:13 |
| VDVsx | dunno | 01:14 |
| javispedro | if you're still in that "state" ssh in and kill drnoksnes (or reboot) | 01:15 |
| javispedro | or try the esc key | 01:15 |
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| VDVsx | got some strange resolution problems after exit the emu, now rebooting :) | 01:16 |
| javispedro | yes, here be dragons if it crashes while pixel doubling is enabled | 01:16 |
| pupnik | so perhaps snes9x was surprisingly fast after all | 01:17 |
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| pupnik | or just run the program and exit again to clean up | 01:18 |
| pupnik | if it's just an up-arrow + enter in your xterm | 01:18 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, rom is fine, works in snes9x on my desktop :) | 01:18 |
| javispedro | he was using the gui, I guess i'll have to handle it crashing from the gui | 01:19 |
| javispedro | pupnik, what you mean with snes9x? I tried with all the settings I could, and couldn't get SMWorld to work in anything other than slowmo ;) | 01:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Does that make the game any easier? :) | 01:22 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810, it does. but then you can enable frameskipping and it makes it ultra-hard | 01:23 |
| javispedro | one frame rendered and the next one you're already dead. | 01:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Heh | 01:23 |
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| javispedro | while on drpocketsnes you can easily get 30/60, which is enough for me. | 01:24 |
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| pupnik | i thought drpocketsnes would be a bit faster tbh | 01:27 |
| guysoft42 | does sgoerg come here? | 01:27 |
| javispedro | I did too | 01:28 |
| pupnik | javispedro: is the 'gpu' doing scanline or tile-based rendering? | 01:28 |
| javispedro | tile afaik, but not sure :P | 01:28 |
| pupnik | former is accurate, latter fast | 01:28 |
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| javispedro | only bsnes uses scanline afaik | 01:29 |
| javispedro | to tell the truth, I've never been an optimizing guy.... :P | 01:29 |
| pupnik | squidgesnes used tile iirc | 01:30 |
| pupnik | well me neither | 01:30 |
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| pupnik | but a random walk gets you through some forests | 01:30 |
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| javispedro | I am surprised in the difference between the gp2x announced framerates and the ones I get. | 01:33 |
| javispedro | it's not line I'm using another gfx pipeline. | 01:33 |
| javispedro | s/line/like/ | 01:33 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: it's not like I'm using another gfx pipeline. | 01:33 |
| javispedro | a start on optimizing it would be knowing how to profile it ;) | 01:34 |
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| pupnik | i would like to say something, but i have nothing to say, so i'll say 'what a nice day!' | 01:36 |
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| guysoft42 | hi all, my scratchbox uname -r gives my computer's kernel, and the prompt looks different, - sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: . is there a way to rest it? | 01:59 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, ^ | 02:01 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | No idea on the prompt and point the Makefile in whatever module you're compiling to the Diablo kernel sources directly | 02:03 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, how? | 02:05 |
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| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, how do i point it to another kernel? its just a make command | 02:06 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Yes, that reads a Makefile | 02:06 |
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| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, i dont know what to write in the commandline for that | 02:08 |
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| javispedro | GuySoft, go to http://pastebin.com/ & paste the first 30 lines of the "Makefile" file | 02:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *Edit* the Makefile and change the folder/logic it uses to find the kernel source. I'm not psychic either so I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly what to change | 02:10 |
| guysoft42 | javispedro, http://linuxtv.org/hg/~anttip/ec168/file/3ac41feba7d2/Makefile | 02:11 |
| javispedro | ahhh I remember this | 02:11 |
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| javispedro | GuySoft, make KERNELRELEASE=current | 02:12 |
| GuySoft | ah! its you, javispedro .. | 02:12 |
| javispedro | yes, I am the same guy as javispedro too. ;) | 02:13 |
| guysoft42 | File not found: /lib/modules/current/build/include/linux/netdevice.h at scripts/make_config_compat.pl line 15. | 02:13 |
| guysoft42 | ah wait, confused with sgoerg | 02:14 |
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| javispedro | GuySoft, go to /usr/src | 02:14 |
| javispedro | and unpack kernel-source-diablo.tar.bz2 | 02:14 |
| javispedro | (i am doing that since I found that /lib/modules/current/build -> /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL/usr/src/kernel-source-diablo , if that's not in the default scratchbox please correct me). | 02:15 |
| guysoft42 | javispedro, ah, ok | 02:15 |
| guysoft42 | let me try in a sec | 02:16 |
| guysoft42 | javispedro, unpacked now what? running in the make folder gives the same error | 02:17 |
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| guysoft42 | javispedro, | 02:18 |
| guysoft42 | http://pastebin.com/m3dc9ce1d | 02:18 |
| javispedro | does "ls -l /usr/src/kernel-source-diablo/" work? | 02:19 |
| javispedro | lists you COPYING, CREDITS, Documentation,... (aka is a kernel source root)? | 02:19 |
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| guysoft42 | javispedro, yes, the kernel is there | 02:20 |
| guysoft42 | javispedro, isn't this a problem?: uname -r | 02:20 |
| guysoft42 | 2.6.30-1-686 | 02:20 |
| lcuk | http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/4079/P15/ | 02:20 |
| javispedro | no, thats normal behaviour | 02:20 |
| lcuk | is someone else getting same | 02:21 |
| lcuk | File not found: /lib/modules/2.6.27-9-generic/build/include/linux/netdevice.h at scripts/make_config_compat.pl line 15. | 02:21 |
| lcuk | error | 02:21 |
| javispedro | true | 02:21 |
| lcuk | Seth, that was what I mentioned last night. Martin is correct, you need to edit the .version file in the gspca source to match your kernel release (’uname -r’ in a terminal to see what it is). | 02:21 |
| javispedro | does the file exist guysoft? "ls -l /lib/modules/current/build/include/linux/netdevice.h" maybe the symlink is not made. | 02:21 |
| lcuk | ^^^ that doesnt make sense, but thats what multiple people are suggesting for the fix | 02:22 |
| javispedro | yep I remember that | 02:22 |
| javispedro | I used to just run make clean and let the autodetection create it again | 02:22 |
| javispedro | (I used to pull the v4l experimental tree when my dvb-t card drivers were still there) | 02:22 |
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| guysoft42 | javispedro, /lib/modules/current/build/include/linux/netdevice.h | 02:23 |
| guysoft42 | ls: /lib/modules/current/build/include/linux/netdevice.h: No such file or directory | 02:23 |
| javispedro | aha, so the symlink is broken | 02:23 |
| guysoft42 | hmm, so what to do? | 02:23 |
| javispedro | well, try to cd into that dir and find which directory does not exist ;) | 02:23 |
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| guysoft42 | javispedro, 'build' is not there | 02:24 |
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| guysoft42 | /lib/modules/current | 02:25 |
| javispedro | well, "ln -s /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL/usr/src/kernel-source-diablo build" | 02:25 |
| javispedro | (inside that dir) | 02:25 |
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| guysoft42 | compiling | 02:26 |
| guysoft42 | if this works.. it will be really cool | 02:26 |
| Robot101 | zerojayPC: cheers, I got it. will poke them later in the week | 02:26 |
| guysoft42 | javispedro, BTW, i saw talks saying dvb-t does not run, do you know why> | 02:26 |
| guysoft42 | ? | 02:26 |
| javispedro | hope so. you'd have good luck since this is an old kernel and you're building an experimental tree. | 02:26 |
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| javispedro | *you'd better have good luck. | 02:26 |
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| javispedro | I know nothing. | 02:27 |
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| javispedro | uh oh. | 02:27 |
| javispedro | v4l in the diablo kernel is builtin, isn't it? | 02:28 |
| guysoft42 | javispedro, i hope so :-) | 02:28 |
| guysoft42 | javispedro, that is an experimental driver | 02:29 |
| javispedro | this is no good then | 02:29 |
| javispedro | you'll get a v4l.ko module you won't be able to load | 02:29 |
| javispedro | and unless you're VERY VERY lucky the driver you're interested in will reference newer v4l symbols your current diablo kernel won't have. | 02:29 |
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| javispedro | which driver is, btw? | 02:31 |
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| guysoft42 | javispedro, ec168 | 02:35 |
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| guysoft42 | javispedro, wone compile. | 02:41 |
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| javispedro | wont compile? | 02:42 |
| javispedro | GuySoft42 ^^^ | 02:42 |
| zerojayPC | Robot101: Thanks. I don't know if I gave them everything they'll need or not. | 02:43 |
| guysoft42 | javispedro, other drivers give errors, like requiring PCI support.. needy. | 02:44 |
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| orangey | hey all | 04:49 |
| orangey | Has anyone here used grandcentral? | 04:50 |
| gogol | you mean google voice? | 04:50 |
| orangey | right | 04:53 |
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| orangey | how is it? | 04:53 |
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| gogol | great! im using it right now. use it all the time. you can get a free gizmo5 num and then have free calls, inbound and outbound. | 04:55 |
| gogol | just google gizmo maemo google voice, youre sure to find how-tos | 04:55 |
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| gogol | check this out too: | 05:06 |
| gogol | http://thatsmith.com/2009/03/google-voice-add-on-for-firefox | 05:06 |
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| orangey | gogol: Sounds pretty good | 05:07 |
| orangey | do you have an invite you could share? | 05:07 |
| orangey | gogol: Also, how does it deal with SMS? | 05:08 |
| orangey | is your primary number the google voice number? | 05:08 |
| orangey | I'm not keen on getting locked into google. | 05:08 |
| orangey | but nothing else offers two-way SMS right now | 05:08 |
| gogol | members dont have invites, you have to sign up for one. you can do it on GV's homepage. im told it doesnt take but hours sometimes, at most a few days. | 05:08 |
| gogol | yes, your primary number is one assigned to you in an area code of your choice. | 05:11 |
| orangey | only in the US, ostensibly | 05:11 |
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| gogol | im two-way sms-ing with a bunch of people, yes | 05:11 |
| orangey | interesting | 05:14 |
| orangey | sounds like it won't be useful for me, since I"m based in Canada | 05:15 |
| orangey | but thank you for the walkaround on it | 05:15 |
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| gogol | :D | 05:21 |
| gogol | im told there's one area code in canada that google missed. you might try googling it. | 05:22 |
| zerojayPC | Somewhere in Alberta, I think. | 05:22 |
| Macer | lol | 05:24 |
| Macer | this gentoo install is on glib2 | 05:24 |
| Macer | :) | 05:24 |
| orangey | as in, an area code that they accept? | 05:24 |
| * Macer sits it in a spot where it will have power and just walks away for a week | 05:26 | |
| zerojayPC | yes | 05:27 |
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| orangey | macer: Why put yourself through the pain? | 05:29 |
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| orangey | gentoo was very, very useful because it allowed you to have the most current software | 05:30 |
| orangey | now ubuntu does that just fine | 05:30 |
| orangey | minus the compiling | 05:30 |
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| zakkm | anyone happen to know the difficulty of startng a VOIP business? | 05:35 |
| Macer | orangey: because gentoo works better than mer as far as things just working :) | 05:37 |
| Macer | it's just like a PC install | 05:37 |
| orangey | ooooh. for your n8x0? | 05:37 |
| Macer | yah | 05:37 |
| orangey | wow. Didn't even think of that as an option | 05:37 |
| zerojayPC | He needs a hobby. ;) | 05:37 |
| orangey | most important thing for me: Does it run some SIP client? | 05:38 |
| Macer | heh. me neither until Luke-Jr kept talking about it | 05:38 |
| Macer | orangey: i think it pretty much runs whatever gentoo can build | 05:38 |
| orangey | I can't leave maemo until I can find something that runs a SIP client | 05:38 |
| orangey | macer: That's a temptress | 05:38 |
| orangey | macer: Let me know if you can use SIP via ekiga, say | 05:38 |
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| orangey | I actually use my n810 quite heavily | 05:38 |
| orangey | for email (claws), as my main phone (sofia-sip) and for maps (maemo mapper). ALso, recently, I got more into podcasts with gpodder | 05:39 |
| zerojayPC | Honestly, I'm not sure it would work well. | 05:39 |
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| orangey | zerojayPC: I'm sure it wouldn't ; ) | 05:39 |
| zerojayPC | The codecs used on the tablet were made for lower end machines as far as I know.. and I doubt Ekiga has them. | 05:39 |
| Macer | orangey: sorry. i don't use sip | 05:40 |
| orangey | I'm holding out hope for mer | 05:40 |
| Macer | i wouldn't know what to test it on | 05:40 |
| Macer | with | 05:40 |
| orangey | macer: That's easy. I could help you with that no problem | 05:40 |
| orangey | just start ekiga | 05:40 |
| orangey | call a test number (i.e., 333@voip.wengo.fr ) | 05:40 |
| orangey | and if you can hear it, and it can hear you, we'll call that "success" | 05:40 |
| zakkm | ekiga would take long enough to open it up, that it wouldnt be very helpful :P | 05:41 |
| Macer | oh | 05:42 |
| Macer | won't work | 05:42 |
| Macer | don't think sound is working | 05:42 |
| Macer | :)4~ | 05:42 |
| zakkm | sound works in gentoo? | 05:42 |
| zakkm | doesnt it? | 05:42 |
| Macer | that's the only thing | 05:42 |
| Macer | i dunno | 05:42 |
| zakkm | im sure they got sound working | 05:42 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr said it might | 05:42 |
| zakkm | it was an added step though | 05:42 |
| Macer | yah | 05:42 |
| Macer | i'm sure | 05:42 |
| Macer | heh | 05:42 |
| Macer | i'm going to figure that out later after everything is done building | 05:42 |
| Macer | i'm building X now | 05:42 |
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| zakkm | lucky | 05:42 |
| Macer | well.. it's on build 6 of 126 | 05:43 |
| Macer | haha | 05:43 |
| zakkm | i want gentoo :D | 05:43 |
| Macer | building glib2 | 05:43 |
| Macer | :) | 05:43 |
| zakkm | have it in a dualboot | 05:43 |
| zakkm | favourite distro :P | 05:43 |
| Macer | i hate dual booting | 05:43 |
| zakkm | yeah me too | 05:43 |
| Macer | only time it makes sense on the n810 | 05:43 |
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| Macer | heh | 05:43 |
| zakkm | hah | 05:43 |
| zakkm | i wanted to port gentoo wayy before i got my nokia | 05:43 |
| zakkm | so bak in like 2007 i wanted to port it :P | 05:43 |
| Macer | well | 05:43 |
| orangey | i can't imagine inflicting such pain upon myself | 05:43 |
| Macer | someone else accomplished it | 05:43 |
| zakkm | yeah | 05:44 |
| Macer | haha | 05:44 |
| orangey | this works well enough | 05:44 |
| zakkm | also back then it was just a nokia 770 , and well n800 i think was coming out/ came out | 05:44 |
| Macer | they did quite a bit of work to get it going | 05:44 |
| zakkm | oh sorry sound doesnt work, i thought i saw it | 05:44 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr just sent me his keymaps | 05:44 |
| orangey | any more news on the new device? | 05:44 |
| orangey | the successor of the n810? | 05:44 |
| zakkm | ripoff :) | 05:44 |
| Macer | zakkm: heh. they said it might | 05:44 |
| Macer | told me to look at sound in deblet | 05:44 |
| Macer | on the nit talk | 05:44 |
| zakkm | ah no, i thought i read it, i was wrong | 05:44 |
| zakkm | ohh that might of been it | 05:44 |
| Macer | i guess to get it working uses the same type of steps | 05:45 |
| zakkm | cant do it though without hardware keyboard :( | 05:45 |
| zakkm | i wanted to do irssi , and links possibly links -g | 05:45 |
| Macer | zakkm: well on an n800 | 05:45 |
| Macer | you have to ssh and install X and use a soft keyboard | 05:45 |
| zakkm | ? | 05:45 |
| Macer | you can just chroot to set it up | 05:46 |
| zakkm | after X its pointless | 05:46 |
| zakkm | i wanted console. | 05:46 |
| zakkm | tty | 05:46 |
| Macer | hahaha | 05:46 |
| Macer | yeah well. no soft kb in console | 05:46 |
| Macer | unless you want to write one :) | 05:46 |
| zakkm | yeah | 05:46 |
| zakkm | thats why i wanted a n810 :P | 05:46 |
| Macer | lol | 05:46 |
| zakkm | write one? | 05:46 |
| zakkm | could you? | 05:46 |
| zakkm | that cant work can it? | 05:46 |
| Macer | shit. i can't | 05:46 |
| Macer | lol | 05:46 |
| zakkm | no i mean | 05:46 |
| Macer | why not? | 05:46 |
| zakkm | is it possible | 05:46 |
| Macer | i'm sure it is | 05:46 |
| zakkm | because of the way console works and such | 05:46 |
| Macer | probably need a replacement ncurses based console with keys on the bottom? | 05:46 |
| Macer | maybe that would work? | 05:47 |
| zakkm | it cant accept touchscreen , without X? | 05:47 |
| Macer | you can use dpad + ncurses to send keymaps ? | 05:47 |
| zakkm | ah i guess so with ncurses | 05:47 |
| Macer | just an idean though | 05:47 |
| Macer | i don't know if that would even be possible :) | 05:47 |
| zakkm | i didnt think of that | 05:47 |
| zakkm | reason i should of bought a n810 :P | 05:47 |
| Macer | i'm sure it can be | 05:47 |
| Macer | zakkm: they aren't that expensive | 05:47 |
| Macer | 250 or so | 05:47 |
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| zakkm | i just bought a 23.3" 2048x1152 widescreen :P | 05:47 |
| zakkm | im broke | 05:47 |
| zakkm | i just bought it yesterday | 05:47 |
| zakkm | and dont you remembe rme trying to trade you ? n800 + cash? :P | 05:48 |
| zakkm | or paypal w.e | 05:48 |
| zakkm | 250 is alot, i would just buy a ipod or a netbook | 05:48 |
| Macer | oh yeah | 05:51 |
| Macer | lol | 05:51 |
| Macer | i wouldn't give up the qwerty ;) | 05:51 |
| Macer | plus i needed the n810 for the gps | 05:51 |
| zakkm | i was going to buy n810 , my n800 isnt totally that new | 05:52 |
| zakkm | but n810 was like $300 (CAD ) | 05:52 |
| zakkm | and n800 i got for $145 | 05:52 |
| zakkm | so it would of been twice the price | 05:52 |
| zakkm | twice the price for a keyboard? :P | 05:52 |
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| Macer | and gps ;) | 05:53 |
| zakkm | i cant drive though, and i know my city, ive never moved. | 05:53 |
| zakkm | well i can drive, with adult :P but yeah | 05:53 |
| Macer | lol | 05:53 |
| Macer | hahhahha | 05:53 |
| zakkm | and at that itme i didnt have any part of license | 05:53 |
| Macer | glib itself is going to take all day haha | 05:54 |
| Macer | ah well | 05:54 |
| Macer | i'm going to do stuff | 05:54 |
| Macer | bbl | 05:54 |
| zakkm | its a 400mhz arm :P | 05:54 |
| zakkm | of course | 05:54 |
| zerojayPC | Installing and dealing with the Maemo SDK is so much easier with a debian install. | 05:55 |
| zerojayPC | Unfortunately. | 05:55 |
| zakkm | heh | 05:57 |
| zakkm | it should be. | 05:57 |
| zerojayPC | But it shouldn't be. | 05:57 |
| zakkm | they're both debian | 05:58 |
| zakkm | debian has things and packages different than others | 05:58 |
| zerojayPC | I know. | 05:58 |
| zakkm | others distros should be supported yes, and work okay but you cant beat debian itself | 05:58 |
| zakkm | thats like saying making ipod apps is so much easier in mac... or making xbox apps/games is so much easier in windows | 05:59 |
| zerojayPC | And I would say the same thing in those cases. | 05:59 |
| zerojayPC | I shouldn't HAVE to be tied down to that platform. | 05:59 |
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| zerojayPC | Not so bad for Xbox or Maemo... but requiring Macs for iphone development is pretty shitty. | 06:00 |
| zakkm | but theres reasons for it | 06:00 |
| zakkm | iphone requires xcode to compile | 06:00 |
| zakkm | also uses alot of builtin mac stuff | 06:00 |
| zakkm | but i mean you cant beat native.. | 06:00 |
| zerojayPC | Yes, done like that to force you to buy the hardware. :) | 06:00 |
| zakkm | yeahh im aware from a business perspective | 06:01 |
| zakkm | but theres also reasons behind it | 06:01 |
| zakkm | from a tech view | 06:01 |
| zerojayPC | Those reasons could all be worked around if they wanted. | 06:01 |
| zerojayPC | But they don't. | 06:01 |
| zakkm | which much effort, and worked around... exactly | 06:01 |
| zakkm | just like using sdk in other distros | 06:01 |
| zakkm | are workaround | 06:01 |
| zakkm | it cant beat debian | 06:01 |
| zerojayPC | But it shouldn't be. | 06:01 |
| zerojayPC | Especially for Maemo. | 06:01 |
| zakkm | debian puts things in different places, has different packages and ways of compiling | 06:02 |
| zerojayPC | At the very least, give us a VMWare virtual hard drive image. | 06:02 |
| zakkm | it uses dpkg-deb in most cases, which doesnt obviously exist in non debian distros | 06:02 |
| zakkm | there is one? | 06:02 |
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| zerojayPC | No. | 06:02 |
| zakkm | maemo sdk vmware virtual image | 06:02 |
| zakkm | are you kidding me? | 06:02 |
| zerojayPC | Not for Maemo 5. | 06:02 |
| zakkm | oh | 06:02 |
| zakkm | well thats still new | 06:02 |
| zakkm | :P | 06:02 |
| zakkm | thats not even out yet | 06:03 |
| zerojayPC | There were some for previous versions of the SDK. | 06:03 |
| zakkm | woooh darwine :D | 06:05 |
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| Macer | woah | 06:08 |
| Macer | glib2 finished | 06:08 |
| Macer | :) | 06:08 |
| Macer | >>> Emerging (7 of 120) app-admin/eselect-opengl-1.0.6-r1 | 06:09 |
| Macer | hah! | 06:09 |
| * Macer stops the emerge | 06:09 | |
| zakkm | why? | 06:09 |
| zakkm | just leave it plugged in | 06:09 |
| Macer | i just am not seeing it | 06:09 |
| Macer | requiring opengl ;) | 06:09 |
| zakkm | ? | 06:09 |
| zakkm | o | 06:09 |
| zakkm | use use flag "-opengl" | 06:09 |
| Macer | yah | 06:09 |
| Macer | didn't think about it | 06:10 |
| Macer | ah screw it | 06:10 |
| zakkm | you should always check flags, when doing emerge | 06:10 |
| zakkm | and always do emerge -av at least | 06:10 |
| Macer | lol | 06:10 |
| Macer | usually i would | 06:10 |
| zakkm | eselect-opengl isnt a compile anyways. | 06:10 |
| Macer | i'll just leave it | 06:10 |
| Macer | yah | 06:10 |
| zakkm | its just a download and copy | 06:10 |
| Macer | ti's just a script | 06:10 |
| zakkm | but it will bring opengl with it | 06:10 |
| Macer | oh. thought it was a script | 06:10 |
| Macer | taht's fine | 06:10 |
| zakkm | it is | 06:10 |
| Macer | i might need mesa | 06:10 |
| zakkm | but if thats there.. | 06:10 |
| Macer | sure it would go slow as shit but it will be there :) | 06:10 |
| zakkm | so is opengl .. possibly emerge 60 of 120.. | 06:10 |
| Macer | whatever. i'll just install everything to make sure | 06:11 |
| Macer | :) | 06:11 |
| Macer | who knows. i might run into something that requires opengl or something | 06:11 |
| Macer | --newuse ftw | 06:11 |
| zakkm | theres no need for newuse | 06:12 |
| zakkm | well couldnt hurt | 06:12 |
| Macer | heh | 06:12 |
| Macer | not now | 06:12 |
| Macer | later might work | 06:12 |
| Macer | then i can get rid of unnecessary deps | 06:12 |
| Macer | depending on how well gentoo works with that | 06:13 |
| zerojayPC | Enjoy your copy of Mesa. ;) | 06:13 |
| Macer | lol | 06:13 |
| Macer | fear mesa | 06:13 |
| Macer | i'll probably get like .001fps | 06:13 |
| Macer | in glxgears in gentoo on an n810 | 06:13 |
| Macer | :) | 06:13 |
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| zakkm | glxgears isnt a benchmark. | 06:13 |
| zerojayPC | Mesa made a big deal about using the PS3's cell and SPEs to accelerate graphics in PS3 Linux... which has no acceleration whatsoever. | 06:14 |
| zerojayPC | glxgears goes from 120FPS to 192FPS. | 06:14 |
| zerojayPC | Still completely useless for anything fun though. :/ | 06:14 |
| zakkm | glxgears isnt a benchmark though | 06:14 |
| Macer | hm | 06:14 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: sound works with 2.6.30-rc8 | 06:14 |
| Luke-Jr | on N810 | 06:14 |
| zerojayPC | It doesn't need to be an official benchmark | 06:14 |
| zakkm | that wasnt actually for me, cause i cant use it but yeah thanks :) | 06:14 |
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| zerojayPC | But the numbers are still somewhat valid. | 06:15 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: diablo-sources ? | 06:15 |
| zakkm | rc8 ? didnt you do 2.6.30? :P | 06:15 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: no, omap-sources | 06:15 |
| Macer | oh | 06:15 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: N8x0 support was stripped out for 2.6.30 final | 06:15 |
| zakkm | ewww | 06:15 |
| zakkm | that sucks | 06:15 |
| Macer | so what do you have to do? emerge omap-suorces | 06:15 |
| Macer | and build the module | 06:15 |
| Macer | or something? | 06:15 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: no, it's not simple | 06:15 |
| Macer | oh | 06:15 |
| Luke-Jr | you'd need to make the ebuilds | 06:15 |
| zakkm | wait i thought 2.6.30 final supposedly added n8x0 support? | 06:15 |
| Luke-Jr | I didn't | 06:15 |
| zakkm | not remove it | 06:15 |
| Macer | oh. | 06:15 |
| zakkm | why would they remove it? | 06:15 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: it added some N8x0 drivers in mainline | 06:15 |
| Macer | that sucks | 06:15 |
| Luke-Jr | Linux-OMAP stripped everything that *didn't* get merged to mainline | 06:16 |
| zakkm | ohh | 06:16 |
| Macer | :( | 06:16 |
| Luke-Jr | like keyboard | 06:16 |
| zakkm | so all is good? | 06:16 |
| Macer | bastards | 06:16 |
| Macer | heh | 06:16 |
| zakkm | i might be confused | 06:16 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: mainline has wifi, bluetooth, sound, and stuff | 06:16 |
| Macer | >>> Emerging (7 of 120) app-admin/eselect-opengl-1.0.6-r1 | 06:16 |
| Macer | oops | 06:16 |
| Luke-Jr | but not keyboard or platform | 06:16 |
| Luke-Jr | s/platform/board/ | 06:16 |
| infobot | Luke-Jr meant: but not keyboard or board | 06:16 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: any plans on making an ebuild for it? | 06:17 |
| Macer | for sound? | 06:17 |
| Luke-Jr | also, Nokia's crappy proprietary GPS driver requires a bug that was fixed in 2.6.27 | 06:17 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: no, probably will wait for vanilla-sources to work | 06:17 |
| Macer | oh. ok. | 06:17 |
| Macer | how difficult is it to build? | 06:17 |
| Luke-Jr | for me? trivial | 06:18 |
| Macer | any instructions on how to do it anywhere? | 06:18 |
| Macer | lol | 06:18 |
| Luke-Jr | for you? I'm not helping XD | 06:18 |
| Macer | :-P | 06:18 |
| Macer | blah | 06:18 |
| Macer | any type of instructions on how to do it anywhere? | 06:18 |
| Luke-Jr | If you git clone Linux-OMAP, I'll send you a binary. ;P | 06:19 |
| Macer | git clone git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap-2.6.git | 06:21 |
| Macer | dho | 06:21 |
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| Luke-Jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/pkgs/lib_modules_2.6.30-rc8-omap1.tbz2 | 06:21 |
| Luke-Jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/pkgs/zImage.2.6.30-rc8 | 06:21 |
| Luke-Jr | have fun | 06:21 |
| Luke-Jr | and remember that wifi doesn't work :þ | 06:22 |
| Macer | awwww | 06:22 |
| Macer | well. i'd rather have wifi than sound :-P | 06:22 |
| Macer | no way to get both? | 06:22 |
| Luke-Jr | well | 06:22 |
| Luke-Jr | it might | 06:22 |
| Luke-Jr | but | 06:22 |
| Luke-Jr | it was weird | 06:22 |
| Macer | weird? | 06:22 |
| Luke-Jr | kismet at least worked | 06:22 |
| Luke-Jr | I had trouble listing APs | 06:22 |
| Macer | oh | 06:22 |
| Luke-Jr | I don't recall trouble connecting to my WEP AP | 06:22 |
| Macer | i don't need to list APs | 06:23 |
| Luke-Jr | consider the state of wifi to be as-is :þ | 06:23 |
| Macer | haha | 06:23 |
| Macer | well. i don't really understand what i have to do with th omap sources yet | 06:23 |
| Macer | like. build a new kernel or something ? | 06:23 |
| Luke-Jr | no, I just had you download those to cover my legal requirements | 06:23 |
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| Macer | HAHA | 06:23 |
| Macer | so does the bin just install the 2.6.30 kenel and modules? | 06:24 |
| Luke-Jr | … | 06:24 |
| Luke-Jr | look for a manual on flasher :þ | 06:25 |
| Luke-Jr | untar the modules to your rootfs, and copy some to initfs as desired | 06:25 |
| gogol | anyone ever install QTablet? | 06:25 |
| Macer | oh | 06:25 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: do NOT flash the kernel, just boot it over USB | 06:25 |
| Macer | so i can use 2.6.30 kernels with 2.6.21 kernel? | 06:26 |
| Macer | hm | 06:26 |
| Luke-Jr | … | 06:26 |
| Macer | ohy | 06:26 |
| Macer | ok. taht's beyond my scope haha | 06:27 |
| Macer | i'll wait til you guys get it working with an ebuild or something :) | 06:27 |
| Macer | until then i'll work on getting the other stuff going on my n810 | 06:27 |
| zakkm | gogol: always failed for me. | 06:28 |
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| gogol | fail as in "another window manager already running" | 06:28 |
| gogol | zakm: ^ | 06:28 |
| zakkm | so killall -9 hildon desktop && qtablet | 06:29 |
| gogol | not so easy. did this yesterday just to get it running, maybe it would help you. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=312120&postcount=6 | 06:30 |
| Macer | does qtablet have a --replace option? :) | 06:30 |
| zakkm | tablet is just a app | 06:31 |
| zakkm | isnt it? | 06:31 |
| Macer | oh | 06:31 |
| zakkm | qtablet* | 06:31 |
| Macer | thought it was its own wm | 06:31 |
| Macer | maybe i could be wrong.. never used it | 06:31 |
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| zakkm | really? i didnt either | 06:31 |
| gogol | it is! | 06:31 |
| zakkm | just seems like a app to me | 06:31 |
| gogol | no, own wm | 06:31 |
| zakkm | it was so outdated though, the last version | 06:31 |
| zakkm | it didnt go far | 06:31 |
| zakkm | matchbox-window-manager.. oh dont even have to kill hildon-desktop | 06:32 |
| gogol | there's a script included that shuts down everything including matchbox-keyboard stuff | 06:32 |
| zakkm | wait dont you have a solution? | 06:32 |
| zakkm | ill try it out if you want? actualyl really interested | 06:33 |
| zakkm | how well would it work on n800? | 06:33 |
| zakkm | does hildon-input-method work? | 06:33 |
| Macer | boot it over usb :) that seems odd | 06:33 |
| gogol | i think it works better on 800 than 810, dev said it was initially made for 800 and then he wrote in stuff for 810 | 06:33 |
| Macer | what do i do? boot it over usb and never turn the device off ever? | 06:33 |
| Macer | heh | 06:33 |
| zakkm | gogol: oh that is sickk :D | 06:34 |
| zakkm | may i try , will you help? :D | 06:34 |
| zakkm | ahhhh i want a n810! :D | 06:34 |
| gogol | i'll try to. you have to ssh to start it up though | 06:34 |
| Macer | maybe it is because i don't undrestand the concept of how the n810 boots | 06:34 |
| zakkm | Macer: it uses bootmenu :) | 06:34 |
| zakkm | "grub-ish" | 06:35 |
| gogol | im just curious because the dev just emailed me saying he wants someone to take over the project. i thought maybe one of you programmer types that like QT would be interested | 06:35 |
| zakkm | oh wow | 06:35 |
| zakkm | i never learned how to use sdk, but it sounds worth it | 06:35 |
| zakkm | willing to try :) | 06:36 |
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| zakkm | im not perfect enough to be best choice, but i gotta say ill dedicate myself and tech savvy enough | 06:36 |
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| Luke-Jr | OMFG | 06:36 |
| zakkm | :O | 06:37 |
| zakkm | *runs* | 06:37 |
| Luke-Jr | LV enV Touch looks sweet if I can get Linux on it | 06:37 |
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| zakkm | lol | 06:37 |
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| Macer | touch books look sweet too | 06:37 |
| zakkm | Luke-Jr: looks ugly :P | 06:37 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: but unusably huge | 06:37 |
| zakkm | how much is the touchbook? | 06:37 |
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| zakkm | want one for uni in about 12 months from now :P | 06:38 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: i was joking. touch books have quickly become the new pandor vaporware | 06:38 |
| Macer | pandora | 06:38 |
| gogol | somebody mentioned using qtablet for mer. | 06:38 |
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| zakkm | whats wrong with touchbook? | 06:38 |
| zakkm | gogol: its in repository, but it wont install | 06:38 |
| Macer | zakkm: nobody has received one | 06:38 |
| zakkm | leaving no message behind | 06:38 |
| Macer | and they announced shipping started 3 weeks ago | 06:38 |
| zakkm | Macer: 10+ hour battery, omap3 chip, touchscreen | 06:39 |
| zakkm | ahhh :P | 06:39 |
| Macer | zakkm: it's vaporware | 06:39 |
| zakkm | really? | 06:39 |
| zakkm | it seems so nice | 06:39 |
| Macer | ina month we will hear that always innovating has gone under :) | 06:39 |
| Macer | i know | 06:39 |
| Macer | so does the openpandora | 06:39 |
| Macer | vaporware | 06:39 |
| gogol | http://qtablet.laginen.net/doku.php?id=qtabletbinarypackages | 06:39 |
| Macer | was supposed to be released ayear ago | 06:39 |
| Macer | i'm hoping a real company steps up | 06:39 |
| Macer | and releses something good based on arm that isn't a phone or tablet | 06:40 |
| gogol | probably need to be sd booting as it takes up a lot of space. | 06:40 |
| Macer | maybe a 9 or 10" netbook | 06:40 |
| zakkm | gogol: why no menu option? | 06:40 |
| gogol | lol, you say you want to be lead dev for this? | 06:41 |
| zakkm | hells yeah ! :P | 06:41 |
| zakkm | would need time to learn sdk go through source code and such of course | 06:41 |
| zakkm | but yeahh im totally interested | 06:41 |
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| zakkm | first i wanna get this going on my tablet, i saw youtube vid ages ago and im like omg i wanna use it, but i havent been able to get it going , it was awhile back too | 06:42 |
| Macer | checking whether we are cross compiling... no | 06:43 |
| Macer | :) | 06:43 |
| gogol | wellll.. once you get scratchbox going...you could try building it following these instructions... http://qtablet.laginen.net/doku.php?id=how-to_build_qtopia_for_n800 | 06:43 |
| gogol | if you get that far i'd be seriously impressed. | 06:43 |
| zakkm | im a gentoo user :P i like compiling/ messing with source | 06:44 |
| zakkm | 5 year gentoo user, okayy so 6 months ago i totally 100% switched to mac | 06:44 |
| zakkm | but thats cause i ran out of things to try :P i wait for new stuff :P | 06:44 |
| gogol | so you code? or just fool around like me. | 06:44 |
| Macer | zakkm: lol.. make qtablet for gentoo on the tablet :) | 06:44 |
| Luke-Jr | http://cgi.ebay.com/RIM-Blackberry-7250-Color-Verizon-E-Mail-Text-Phone_W0QQitemZ360179820672QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCell_Phones?hash=item53dc63e880&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_3083wt_0 | 06:45 |
| Luke-Jr | can I grab this and tether N810 to Boost Mobile with it? | 06:45 |
| zakkm | i can code. dont work on projects though from scratch | 06:45 |
| zakkm | like i will improve this, add menu and all find little tweaks , less lines of code | 06:45 |
| zakkm | Luke-Jr: which way tethering? | 06:45 |
| zakkm | using nokia's wifi on blackberry... or using blackberries 3g on nokia? | 06:46 |
| Luke-Jr | huh? | 06:46 |
| zakkm | and thats a expensive price for a blackberry 7250 | 06:46 |
| Luke-Jr | $20? | 06:46 |
| zakkm | thats the winning bid | 06:46 |
| zakkm | not final | 06:46 |
| zakkm | plus shipping. | 06:46 |
| zerojayPC | Luke-Jr: Yes, someone said you could, but it's super slow. | 06:46 |
| Luke-Jr | I want cell internet for my N810 | 06:46 |
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| Luke-Jr | phone would just sit in the car or smth | 06:46 |
| zakkm | oh of course | 06:46 |
| zakkm | 3g is expensive though | 06:46 |
| zerojayPC | Less than dialup speeds. | 06:46 |
| gogol | well between the links ive given you, you should be able to get it running. adding a menu item wouldn't be too hard an accomplishment either. just have to figure out how to kill the window manager running the script telling it to start another wm | 06:46 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: Boost Mobile? | 06:46 |
| Luke-Jr | zerojayPC: Boost Mobile is slower than dialup anyhow | 06:47 |
| zakkm | oh dont know boost mobile | 06:47 |
| Luke-Jr | Boost Mobile is $1/day :þ | 06:47 |
| zerojayPC | Someone on tmo was selling their boost stuff and talked about it. You might want to check that out on Buy/Sell. | 06:47 |
| Luke-Jr | zerojayPC: plus, 5 GB limits is slower than dialup | 06:47 |
| gogol | Luke-Jr: 25/mo for unlimited edge through t-mo | 06:47 |
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| gogol | thats about 20K/sec | 06:48 |
| Luke-Jr | gogol: with nothing else? | 06:48 |
| zakkm | ohhh you guys are in US | 06:48 |
| Macer | wow that phone is ugly as sin :) | 06:48 |
| zakkm | im in toronto, canada... tis why :) | 06:48 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: like I said, I just want something cheap I can ignore | 06:48 |
| gogol | you'd have to get a plan im sure, dont think they do prepay that way | 06:48 |
| zakkm | gogol: yeahhh so whos the developer, i should talk to person | 06:48 |
| Luke-Jr | gogol: I don't want phone service really | 06:48 |
| zakkm | Luke-Jr: doesnt matter, in most cases | 06:48 |
| zerojayPC | Luke-Jr: Where do you get an idea like that? | 06:48 |
| Luke-Jr | zerojayPC: calculator | 06:49 |
| zerojayPC | Having a 5GB limit is nothing like being on dialup at all. | 06:49 |
| zakkm | Luke-Jr: go retro - http://cgi.ebay.com/VERY-GOOD-RIM-BLACKBERRY-6750-PDA-COLOR-PHONE-VERIZON_W0QQitemZ360142417463QQcategoryZ45070QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m215QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSICDD%26its%3DI%252BC%252BS%252BIA%26itu%3DUS-BWR%252BUCI%252BUCC%252BIT%252BUA%26otn%3D3%26ps%3D33 | 06:49 |
| Luke-Jr | overall, it is | 06:49 |
| zerojayPC | No, it's really really not. :) | 06:49 |
| zakkm | dialup cant goto 5gb in a month can it? | 06:49 |
| zerojayPC | A calculator can't tell you how much nicer the user experience is. | 06:49 |
| Macer | haha | 06:50 |
| zakkm | 4kbs a day.. doesnt add up to 5gb a month? :P | 06:50 |
| Luke-Jr | 5 GB limit = 16.18 Kbit/sec | 06:50 |
| gogol | Luke-Jr: dont know if you can have only data | 06:50 |
| gogol | zakkm: his email is on his website. | 06:50 |
| zerojayPC | I have a data only plan. | 06:50 |
| zerojayPC | On average, I use about 1.5GB a month. | 06:50 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: dialup can hit 17.30 GB | 06:50 |
| zakkm | oh | 06:50 |
| zerojayPC | I don't do any sort of streaming audio. | 06:50 |
| zakkm | friend has unlimited 3g for $30 a month :) | 06:50 |
| zerojayPC | And believe me... FAR more useful than dialup. | 06:50 |
| zakkm | (toronto canada ) | 06:50 |
| zakkm | he has iphone | 06:50 |
| zerojayPC | I'm in Canada, which is the 3rd world of cell. | 06:50 |
| zakkm | im in canada too | 06:51 |
| zakkm | where are you? :P | 06:51 |
| zerojayPC | Quebec, for the moment. | 06:51 |
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| zakkm | ah | 06:51 |
| zakkm | i been to montreal in march :P | 06:51 |
| zakkm | 18th bday, know what that means :P | 06:51 |
| zerojayPC | I lived there most of my life. | 06:51 |
| zerojayPC | Yeah, go to party town. Heh. | 06:51 |
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| zakkm | legal age is 19 here in ontario | 06:51 |
| gogol | changed my alert sound, will someone say my name so i can test it please | 06:51 |
| zerojayPC | Ironically, I almost never did that while living there. | 06:51 |
| zerojayPC | gogol | 06:51 |
| Luke-Jr | gogol ftl | 06:52 |
| zakkm | gogol :D | 06:52 |
| gogol | for the.. ? | 06:52 |
| zakkm | loser :P | 06:52 |
| gogol | :S | 06:52 |
| zakkm | w = win l = loser? | 06:52 |
| Luke-Jr | gogol: T-Mobile doesn't have any plans that allow tethering period | 06:53 |
| zerojayPC | I'm on Rogers in Canada and I didn't even think to ask if tethering would cost me extra. | 06:53 |
| zakkm | zerojayPC: it doesnt, or didnt for my friend | 06:54 |
| zerojayPC | I use an N95 with a data plan exclusively just to have my N810 mobile. | 06:54 |
| Macer | you just assume yes huh? | 06:54 |
| Macer | haha | 06:54 |
| gogol | ive been bt tethering with gadget and with laptop on 25/mo plan for over a month. works great. | 06:54 |
| zakkm | tethering itself doesnt, but your still using ___GB... which costs | 06:54 |
| Macer | i miss my n95 | 06:54 |
| zerojayPC | They told me that as long as I didn't get a voice account, they wouldn't charge me extra for tethering. | 06:54 |
| zerojayPC | Battery life's terrible on the N95. | 06:54 |
| zakkm | zerojayPC: get the 5gb a month - $30 ... :P rogers | 06:54 |
| zakkm | nononoo 6gb? | 06:54 |
| gogol | bluetooth on my phone kills it in like 3 hours. | 06:54 |
| zerojayPC | Yeah, that's for iPhone. | 06:55 |
| zerojayPC | Or some promotional thing. | 06:55 |
| zakkm | so? | 06:55 |
| zakkm | it doesnt matter | 06:55 |
| zerojayPC | Wasn't available. | 06:55 |
| zerojayPC | Sure it does! | 06:55 |
| zakkm | ??? it works till sept 15 | 06:55 |
| zakkm | how? | 06:55 |
| zakkm | friend tethers to laptop just fine | 06:55 |
| zakkm | he did over phone | 06:55 |
| zerojayPC | You can't go up to Rogers and say "hey, two years ago, you offered 5GB for $4... I want it!" | 06:55 |
| zakkm | ?? | 06:55 |
| zakkm | they still offering it | 06:55 |
| zakkm | till september 15th | 06:55 |
| zerojayPC | Not to me. | 06:55 |
| zakkm | friend had 2 year contract | 06:56 |
| zerojayPC | I'll look into it then. | 06:56 |
| zakkm | he just added the data plan | 06:56 |
| gogol | no t-mobile in canada? | 06:56 |
| zerojayPC | No. | 06:56 |
| zakkm | sucks | 06:56 |
| zakkm | i want the sidekick :D | 06:56 |
| zakkm | zerojayPC: use koodo myself :P | 06:56 |
| zakkm | dont kno if its in quebec | 06:56 |
| zakkm | unlimited worldwide msging for $5 a month :P | 06:56 |
| zakkm | i did 300 international txts last month :P | 06:57 |
| zakkm | look into it though 6gb - $30 isnt bad? | 06:57 |
| zerojayPC | Your friend has an I phone, right? | 06:57 |
| zerojayPC | er. | 06:57 |
| zerojayPC | iphone? | 06:57 |
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| zakkm | yeah | 06:58 |
| zakkm | tethers to netbook | 06:58 |
| zakkm | just fine | 06:58 |
| zakkm | he also got 2 months unlimited :P | 06:58 |
| Macer | zerojayPC: but the vids and pics are so pretty :) | 06:58 |
| zerojayPC | Yeah, that plan's just for iPhone, so... | 06:58 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: just because it works doesn't mean it's legit | 06:58 |
| zakkm | how is that possible though? | 06:58 |
| zakkm | noonon asked -.- | 06:58 |
| zerojayPC | Well, it is. | 06:58 |
| Macer | but yeah. the n95 had real shitty life | 06:58 |
| Macer | 3G would murder its battery | 06:58 |
| zakkm | zerojayPC: he didnt buy iphone off them ? its not iphone plan .. and also he was already in contract | 06:58 |
| Macer | woo! 10 of 120! | 06:58 |
| zerojayPC | Basically the RX-51 would be my replacement for the N810 and N95 combo. | 06:58 |
| Macer | :) | 06:59 |
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| zakkm | Macer: the quick 10 :P its going to take days .. literaly ;p | 06:59 |
| zerojayPC | zakkm: Everywhere online says it just for iPhone so... dunno. | 06:59 |
| zakkm | and n900 isnt a phone is it? | 06:59 |
| Macer | zerojayPC: will it actually have voice capability? | 06:59 |
| Macer | zakkm: lol. i know | 06:59 |
| Macer | it's going to be a while | 06:59 |
| zerojayPC | Pretty sure it will be a phone. | 06:59 |
| Macer | i haven't gotten to any of the X stuff yet | 06:59 |
| zakkm | i thought it just has hspa support, so it can have its own 3g plan | 06:59 |
| zerojayPC | All the FCC documents refer to it being a phone. | 06:59 |
| zakkm | but not do voice | 06:59 |
| zakkm | Macer: not even that ... libc, glibc, and such | 07:00 |
| zerojayPC | I would bet on it being a phone and having voice. | 07:00 |
| Macer | i think they refer to it as a phone because it has an hspda | 07:00 |
| zakkm | its a tablet.. | 07:00 |
| zakkm | not a phone | 07:00 |
| zerojayPC | Oh, you have one, huh? | 07:00 |
| zakkm | the hspda is to be a proper wimax.. which failed | 07:00 |
| zerojayPC | :) | 07:00 |
| Macer | zakkm: i already finished glibc | 07:00 |
| eplawless | why would they add 3G but not do voice? | 07:00 |
| Macer | it actually didn't take nearly as long as i thought it would | 07:00 |
| zakkm | because its not a phone ? :P and its there way of doing wimax / portability everywhere | 07:00 |
| Macer | like 45misn-1hr | 07:00 |
| zerojayPC | It's almost certain to be a phone. | 07:00 |
| zerojayPC | zakkm: How is it not a phone? | 07:01 |
| zakkm | wimax failed, cause it didnt have wimax in most places | 07:01 |
| zakkm | 3g wouldnt .. hspda w.e | 07:01 |
| zakkm | just my opinion ;p | 07:01 |
| zakkm | and anyways with that, ppl will make it a phone by apps | 07:01 |
| zakkm | ppl already do with dialcentral and sip | 07:01 |
| zerojayPC | The idea of what a phone is changes constantly. | 07:01 |
| zakkm | a phone calls :P | 07:02 |
| zerojayPC | I think Maemo will end up being Nokia's high-end phone OS. | 07:02 |
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| zerojayPC | Yes, and it will too. | 07:02 |
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| zakkm | no, Mer is :D | 07:02 |
| eplawless | It seems pretty likely that the rx-51 is going to be the tipping point of convergence between MIDs and phones | 07:02 |
| zerojayPC | Yeah, I think so. | 07:02 |
| Macer | zakkm: lol | 07:02 |
| Macer | no. mer is the poor man's replacement :) | 07:02 |
| zerojayPC | I believe the entire Maemo product line and OS cycles were just an open beta for getting to this point. | 07:02 |
| zakkm | final mer, not mer now :P | 07:02 |
| * Macer hides | 07:02 | |
| gogol | zakkm: gets to hacking | 07:02 |
| eplawless | Now they just need to release the goddamn thing already | 07:02 |
| zakkm | gogol: im updating openssh server | 07:03 |
| zakkm | already? | 07:03 |
| zakkm | release date been set for awhile | 07:03 |
| zakkm | -.- | 07:03 |
| gogol | go make QTablet better than mer | 07:03 |
| Macer | eplawless: there seems to be a long holdoff on releasing newer hardware | 07:03 |
| Macer | trying to get their older hardware stock down or something? | 07:03 |
| zakkm | mer is a distro, qtablet is a window manager? :P | 07:03 |
| zakkm | :O that would be sickk | 07:03 |
| zerojayPC | zakkm: Uh.. you might be living on another planet than I am... what's this release date? | 07:03 |
| zakkm | mer + qtablet | 07:03 |
| zakkm | it was always Q4 2009 ? wasnt it? | 07:03 |
| Macer | "there's an app for that" | 07:03 |
| zerojayPC | There's no release date. | 07:03 |
| zerojayPC | There's not even been a product announcement yet. | 07:04 |
| Macer | wonder if there is a build for qtablet in gentoo | 07:04 |
| zakkm | Macer: ill make one :) | 07:04 |
| Macer | zakkm: haha | 07:04 |
| Macer | i thought you said you weren't going to run it | 07:04 |
| eplawless | They've mentioned maemo 5 and the next gen device, specs etc | 07:04 |
| Macer | just chroot it for a while until you get x going ;) | 07:04 |
| zakkm | no | 07:04 |
| gogol | the interface of qtablet is pretty epic i gotta say. if i were smart i'd fix it myself. | 07:04 |
| Macer | make an ncurses soft keyboard for console then | 07:04 |
| Macer | lol | 07:04 |
| zakkm | i said i was going to do gentoo myself agess ago , everyone told me it was stupid and not worth it ... iwonder how that went :P | 07:04 |
| Macer | make it run automatically when logging into a console | 07:04 |
| zakkm | and also i ownt do it on n800, i got you for testing :P | 07:05 |
| Macer | zakkm: it seems to be going well | 07:05 |
| Macer | hahaha | 07:05 |
| zakkm | its not that much different | 07:05 |
| * zerojayPC installs Maemo 5 SDK... | 07:05 | |
| zakkm | gogol: im at #1 :P | 07:05 |
| Macer | Linux restless 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Tue Oct 14 11:25:25 EEST 2008 armv6l ARMv6-compatible processor rev 2 (v6l) Nokia RX-44 GNU/Linux | 07:05 |
| zakkm | omg 60mb qt libraries | 07:05 |
| zakkm | thats going to take awhile | 07:05 |
| zakkm | arm 6 ? i thought tablet was arm9 ? | 07:05 |
| zakkm | omg | 07:06 |
| Macer | isn't a9 like | 07:06 |
| zakkm | i cant make them direct links to wget | 07:06 |
| Macer | quad core arm? | 07:06 |
| Macer | heh | 07:06 |
| zakkm | is it? | 07:07 |
| gogol | scp is your friend | 07:07 |
| Macer | or dual core or something | 07:07 |
| zakkm | i dont have scb installed on my mac | 07:07 |
| zakkm | i dont think so | 07:07 |
| zakkm | oh snap i do :D | 07:07 |
| zakkm | ah w.e ill use tear to download | 07:07 |
| zakkm | gogol: oh just to help with coding in future, i got a nice new 2048x1152 23.3" widescreen monitor | 07:08 |
| zakkm | :D | 07:08 |
| Macer | wtf | 07:09 |
| Macer | i think my n810 crashed or something | 07:09 |
| zakkm | wooh :P | 07:09 |
| zakkm | why? | 07:09 |
| Macer | i dunno | 07:09 |
| zakkm | console goes black? | 07:09 |
| zakkm | or blank | 07:09 |
| Luke-Jr | too much swap use | 07:09 |
| Macer | can't ssh into it anymroe | 07:09 |
| zakkm | after idle? | 07:09 |
| Macer | wow really? | 07:09 |
| Luke-Jr | I told you it was slow | 07:09 |
| zakkm | hah | 07:10 |
| Macer | but like.. the ssh session went dead | 07:10 |
| zakkm | you guys mount tmpfs into ram? | 07:10 |
| * Macer goes downstairs to get it | 07:10 | |
| Luke-Jr | ...no | 07:10 |
| zakkm | not enough ram? | 07:10 |
| Luke-Jr | ...yes | 07:10 |
| zakkm | how much does the tablet have btw | 07:10 |
| zakkm | is it 128 or 256 | 07:10 |
| Luke-Jr | 128 | 07:10 |
| zakkm | oh wow | 07:11 |
| zakkm | gogol: downloading qt4.5 | 07:11 |
| zakkm | gogol: is this the most uptodate? | 07:11 |
| gogol | ? | 07:12 |
| gogol | the qt libs on his page I think are specific to his software. prb not all of qt | 07:12 |
| zakkm | onononno | 07:12 |
| zakkm | i mean the qtablet version | 07:12 |
| zakkm | from "wiki" page | 07:12 |
| gogol | there were updates in march i saw on svn | 07:12 |
| gogol | but i wasnt about to build from source on the tablet | 07:13 |
| Macer | wtf | 07:13 |
| * gogol not that smart | 07:13 | |
| Luke-Jr | gogol: why not | 07:13 |
| Macer | kicked back in :) | 07:13 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: what's it building? | 07:13 |
| zakkm | oh okay :) | 07:13 |
| zakkm | gogol: last update was svn? | 07:13 |
| zakkm | ahh | 07:13 |
| gogol | i suppose i could try... i'd need some better drugs | 07:13 |
| zakkm | last update was march? | 07:13 |
| Macer | i dunno but it's up to 104MB of swap | 07:13 |
| zakkm | just curious what stage its at, what i can build upon it | 07:14 |
| Macer | but git-index-pack is what is topping it out | 07:14 |
| Macer | i'm still downloading that src to it | 07:14 |
| Macer | the omap-sources | 07:14 |
| Luke-Jr | why | 07:14 |
| gogol | have you seriously not even read the webpage zakkm ? | 07:14 |
| Macer | because it seems to be taking that long ? :) | 07:14 |
| zakkm | which webpage? im reading http://qtablet.laginen.net/doku.php?id=qtabletbinarypackages | 07:14 |
| gogol | im sorry git, not svn | 07:15 |
| Luke-Jr | I meant to your file server XD | 07:15 |
| Macer | /dev/mmcblk1p1 14G 2.3G 11G 17% / | 07:15 |
| Macer | oh wtf :-P | 07:15 |
| zakkm | its mostly tmp :P | 07:15 |
| zakkm | portage keeps old packages by default | 07:15 |
| gogol | http://github.com/zchydem/qtablet/tree/master | 07:15 |
| zakkm | and portage tree is huge on its own | 07:15 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: uh, no | 07:16 |
| zakkm | ohh i didnt read that | 07:16 |
| Luke-Jr | by default Portage deletes everything | 07:16 |
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| zakkm | really? i swore i was able to reinstall on desktop gentoo | 07:16 |
| zakkm | and it didnt redownload | 07:16 |
| Luke-Jr | it keeps the downloads, but not the big stuff | 07:16 |
| zakkm | yeah well thats what i mean :P | 07:17 |
| Macer | ok | 07:17 |
| Macer | my n810 just restart | 07:17 |
| Macer | wtf? | 07:17 |
| zakkm | :D | 07:17 |
| Macer | i was ctrl-C the git | 07:17 |
| zakkm | nicee :P | 07:17 |
| Macer | and it reboot on its own | 07:17 |
| Luke-Jr | watchdog | 07:17 |
| Luke-Jr | he sez woof | 07:18 |
| zakkm | ah man | 07:18 |
| zakkm | no space on device for qt - 4.5 | 07:18 |
| zakkm | i really wish i didnt screw up my clone to sd :( | 07:18 |
| zerojayPC | The Rogers 6GB for $30 is only available for iPhone, Blackberry and Android. :/ | 07:19 |
| gogol | ive fortunately got two clones, one on internal sd, one on external | 07:19 |
| gogol | for times like when epage's dialcentral borks alarmd completely in the arse | 07:19 |
| zakkm | zerojayPC: what do you have? | 07:19 |
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| zakkm | heh | 07:20 |
| zerojayPC | A flex plan. | 07:20 |
| zakkm | i messed with maemo -services and it wouldnt boot :p | 07:20 |
| * gogol clones external to internal, again... | 07:21 | |
| zakkm | heh | 07:21 |
| gogol | at least i only lost a day of fooling around | 07:21 |
| zakkm | i gotta do that if qt wont install by space | 07:21 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: be sure to fsck | 07:21 |
| Macer | emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "sys-apps/n810-keymap". | 07:21 |
| Luke-Jr | layman -S | 07:22 |
| zakkm | layman --sync .. dont be lazy :D | 07:22 |
| Macer | what made it reboot in its own? | 07:22 |
| zakkm | cpu / ram goes too high on tablet, it reboots | 07:22 |
| Luke-Jr | the watchdog barked | 07:22 |
| Macer | wtf :) | 07:22 |
| zakkm | good thing :P | 07:22 |
| Macer | what kind of crap is that | 07:23 |
| zakkm | app freezes.. you dont have to pull battery | 07:23 |
| gogol | dont install dialcentral 1.0.4-2 anyone. seriously bad news. | 07:23 |
| Macer | good? | 07:23 |
| zakkm | yes | 07:23 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: actually, when it REALLY crashes, it never reboots :/ | 07:23 |
| zakkm | not crashes | 07:23 |
| zakkm | i mean like app freezes | 07:23 |
| zakkm | cpu loops or something | 07:23 |
| Macer | do i have to do anything special for the keymaps? | 07:23 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: enable them | 07:23 |
| Luke-Jr | /etc/conf.d/keymaps I think? | 07:23 |
| Luke-Jr | or rc | 07:24 |
| Luke-Jr | add n810 (or nIQP) to extras | 07:24 |
| zakkm | danggg not enough space | 07:24 |
| zakkm | time to clone :D | 07:24 |
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| Macer | heh | 07:25 |
| gogol | console-tools ftw! | 07:25 |
| zakkm | yeah | 07:25 |
| zakkm | i kno i got it | 07:25 |
| zakkm | transferring to removable :P ( the 2 files ) | 07:25 |
| gogol | you know what i'd offer a bounty for? a port of fluxbox. | 07:28 |
| zakkm | fluxbox on tablet? | 07:28 |
| zakkm | there is isnt there | 07:28 |
| gogol | ! | 07:28 |
| gogol | what! | 07:28 |
| zakkm | and its not hard? it works in mer ? | 07:28 |
| zakkm | maemo, i think penguinbait did it , worked awful tho | 07:29 |
| zakkm | mer + fluxbox would be best though | 07:29 |
| zakkm | just apt-get it, and then change startup to fluxbox | 07:29 |
| zakkm | gogol: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Fluxbox for mer fluxbox | 07:30 |
| gogol | not in mer | 07:30 |
| gogol | want something that bt works in | 07:30 |
| zakkm | install, add to startup , make it start, and reboot | 07:30 |
| gogol | not so easy in matchbox | 07:30 |
| zakkm | penguinbait did xfce and windowmaker and kde3 , im pretty sureee he did fluxbox | 07:30 |
| zakkm | easy debian also has lxde | 07:31 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: add n810 to extras? | 07:32 |
| Luke-Jr | some rc/keymap config file | 07:32 |
| Macer | conf.d/keymaps? | 07:32 |
| Macer | EXTENDED_KEYMAPS="" | 07:32 |
| Luke-Jr | maybe | 07:32 |
| Macer | there? | 07:32 |
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| Luke-Jr | yeah | 07:32 |
| zakkm | -.- pb wont start in root | 07:32 |
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| Macer | Luke-Jr: awesome thanks | 07:33 |
| Macer | works | 07:33 |
| Macer | did you map tab to anything? | 07:34 |
| Luke-Jr | fullscreen | 07:34 |
| Macer | hell yeah. that's awesome :) | 07:34 |
| Luke-Jr | :D | 07:34 |
| Macer | well. that makes things 10x easier now heh | 07:35 |
| Luke-Jr | the left/right on the top edge are PgUp/PgDn | 07:35 |
| Luke-Jr | that makes things nicer too | 07:35 |
| Macer | hell yeah | 07:36 |
| Macer | :) | 07:36 |
| Macer | this is great | 07:36 |
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| zakkm | omg damn nokia | 07:38 |
| zerojayPC | Heh... Nokia's mistake on a phone caused three people's deaths. | 07:38 |
| Macer | huh? | 07:39 |
| Macer | mistake on a phone? | 07:39 |
| zerojayPC | Apparently, their phones sold in Turkey don't fully support the proper encoding needed over there. | 07:39 |
| Macer | didnt allow for calling emergency numbers? | 07:39 |
| Macer | oh | 07:39 |
| Macer | oh who cares. it's only Turkey :) | 07:39 |
| Macer | haha | 07:39 |
| zerojayPC | There's one character, I think a y with an accent over it... it's just not there. | 07:39 |
| zerojayPC | And three people died over it. | 07:39 |
| Macer | then they should have bought different phones | 07:39 |
| Macer | how? | 07:40 |
| zerojayPC | Story goes that a man and his wife were divorcing and were splitting up their assets and doing it over SMS. | 07:40 |
| zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:~# pbeasy | 07:40 |
| zakkm | root is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. | 07:40 |
| zakkm | lol wth | 07:40 |
| Macer | why would root be in sudoers? :) | 07:40 |
| zakkm | why did it mention it | 07:40 |
| zakkm | and wont let me run app | 07:40 |
| zerojayPC | Wife said she wanted to take a dresser... dude wanted to say "fine, take it" | 07:40 |
| zerojayPC | But the accent was missing... and that somehow turned the sentence into "fine, slut" or something like that. | 07:41 |
| zerojayPC | Don't ask me how. | 07:41 |
| Macer | lol | 07:41 |
| zerojayPC | Wife shows her father, who gets pissed thinking his family is being insulted. | 07:41 |
| zerojayPC | They invite the dude over for dinner. | 07:41 |
| Macer | can't blame nokia for people being idiots | 07:41 |
| Macer | :) | 07:41 |
| * Luke-Jr makes a mental note that calling zerojayPC a slut is a death sentence | 07:41 | |
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| zerojayPC | She pulls a knife on him and stabs him. He pulls out a gun after being stabbed and shoots them both. | 07:42 |
| Macer | did he try to explain the nokia phone problem to the family while they were gutting him? | 07:42 |
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| Macer | HAHAHA | 07:42 |
| Macer | only in Turkey! | 07:42 |
| Macer | :-D | 07:42 |
| zerojayPC | So the next time someone says "encoding isn't important"... tell them to STFU. :) | 07:42 |
| zakkm | omg :( | 07:42 |
| Luke-Jr | let's do that intentionally | 07:42 |
| zerojayPC | Luke-Jr: Shit, I wish I could be called a slut. lol | 07:42 |
| zakkm | stupid pbeasy reboots my tablet | 07:42 |
| zerojayPC | Let me find the original story. | 07:43 |
| zakkm | pulls a gun out? | 07:43 |
| zakkm | carried a gun around? | 07:43 |
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| zerojayPC | He apparently thought it was strange that he was being invited so he brought the gun for his own protection. | 07:44 |
| Luke-Jr | zakkm: of course? | 07:44 |
| zakkm | yo | 07:44 |
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| zakkm | why is it when i change control panel options in maemo | 07:44 |
| Luke-Jr | who walks around unarmed? | 07:44 |
| zakkm | it wont save when i press okay | 07:44 |
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| Luke-Jr | cuz Maemo sucks | 07:45 |
| zerojayPC | I know I sure as fuck wouldn't be walking around unarmed in Turkey. lol | 07:45 |
| zakkm | anyone know how to get passcode from nokia | 07:46 |
| zakkm | bought it used and he didnt tell me | 07:46 |
| zakkm | the lock code | 07:47 |
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| Luke-Jr | zakkm: generally, they won't tell anyone ever | 07:47 |
| zakkm | ? | 07:47 |
| Luke-Jr | you need to find a vulnerable tech and exercise careful social engineering | 07:47 |
| zerojayPC | The default isn't working? | 07:47 |
| Luke-Jr | … | 07:48 |
| zakkm | whats default? | 07:48 |
| Luke-Jr | there is no default -.- | 07:48 |
| zakkm | i think ive tried | 07:48 |
| zakkm | i just want to "clear device" | 07:48 |
| Luke-Jr | wait, Nokia | 07:48 |
| Luke-Jr | I'm thinking Sprint for some reason | 07:48 |
| zakkm | oh wow | 07:51 |
| zakkm | theres a getlockcode script :D | 07:51 |
| zakkm | it workd :D | 07:51 |
| zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:/dev# ./getlockcode | 07:51 |
| zakkm | The lock code is 08400 | 07:51 |
| zakkm | wow ;D | 07:51 |
| Stskeeps | morning | 07:55 |
| zakkm | morning Stskeeps | 07:55 |
| zakkm | did you know about the getlockcode script? | 07:56 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 07:57 |
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| zakkm | ah i been trying to figure it out for ages :P | 07:57 |
| zakkm | just discovered it | 07:58 |
| zerojayPC | I've installed the Maemo 5 SDK, but for some reason the af-sb-init.sh script doesn't seem to exist. Help? | 08:03 |
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| zakkm | zerojayPC: sorry, dont know. | 08:11 |
| zakkm | zerojayPC: should help - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30320 | 08:11 |
| zerojayPC | I got past it.. but now it's asking me to run apt-get update and suddenly it's saying it can't resolve repository.maemo.org. | 08:16 |
| zerojayPC | Total bs. | 08:16 |
| Macer | heh | 08:16 |
| zerojayPC | Yeah, I'm stuck right before nokia-binaries install. | 08:16 |
| Macer | you sound like Stskeeps :) | 08:16 |
| zerojayPC | Well, when I have no problem resolving the site using wget.. it's BS. | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: edit /etc/resolv.conf inside sb and read the sdk faq on wiki | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | common problem | 08:18 |
| Macer | it's a chroot? | 08:18 |
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| Stskeeps | also /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf | 08:18 |
| Macer | oh.. scratchbox | 08:18 |
| Macer | heh | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | -shortof- a chroot | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | sortof | 08:18 |
| Macer | i want this stuff to finish building already so i can try out matchbox | 08:19 |
| Macer | man if it works like a "laptop | 08:19 |
| Macer | " tha twould be great | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 08:21 |
| zerojayPC | Stskeeps: I don't see an SDK FAQ. | 08:22 |
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| Macer | Luke-Jr gave me his keymap stuff :) | 08:22 |
| Macer | so now i can use the console on the n810.. it's great | 08:22 |
| Macer | heh | 08:22 |
| Macer | like.. using the device itself | 08:22 |
| Macer | it's great | 08:22 |
| Macer | /dev/mmcblk1p1 14G 2.3G 11G 18% / | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: hang on | 08:23 |
| zakkm | gogol: still here? | 08:23 |
| Macer | this is quickly getting bloated haha.. but then again i'm sure i have portage archives all over the place | 08:23 |
| zakkm | Macer: dont forget portage tree :D | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: http://wiki.maemo.org/Q&A_-_SDK_and_Scratchbox | 08:24 |
| Macer | zakkm: the tree isn't that bad | 08:26 |
| Macer | i just have to clean out the archives | 08:26 |
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| zakkm | manpages and stuff to? | 08:27 |
| zakkm | is -nodoc -noman used? | 08:27 |
| Macer | naw. i want the man pages | 08:27 |
| Macer | they're not that large either | 08:27 |
| zakkm | Stskeeps: know how to kill matchbox-window-manager without it wanting to reopen? | 08:27 |
| Macer | nor are the docs | 08:27 |
| Macer | they're all compressed anyways | 08:27 |
| Macer | i have 14G to play with so i should be more than ok to install what i want | 08:28 |
| Macer | (maybe) | 08:28 |
| zakkm | oh you will | 08:28 |
| zerojayPC | Stskeeps: Didn't help, thanks anyways. | 08:29 |
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| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: hmm, that's weird | 08:29 |
| Macer | actually. i'll put nodoc there | 08:29 |
| Macer | i never use the docs anyways :) | 08:29 |
| Macer | better to just read those online somehwere | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | verify /etc/resolv.conf inside target too | 08:30 |
| zerojayPC | Works fine outside of scratchbox. | 08:30 |
| zerojayPC | Even inside of scratchbox. | 08:30 |
| zerojayPC | Except that URL. | 08:30 |
| zakkm | WOW | 08:30 |
| zerojayPC | And it's not down. | 08:30 |
| zakkm | qtablet is nice :D | 08:30 |
| Macer | zakkm: is it? | 08:30 |
| Macer | what are you running it in? | 08:31 |
| Macer | mer? | 08:31 |
| Macer | :) | 08:31 |
| zakkm | yeah bit buggy though, im not using newest svn though i think | 08:31 |
| zakkm | no | 08:31 |
| zakkm | maemo | 08:31 |
| Macer | wow really? | 08:31 |
| zakkm | yeah pdf reader doesnt work | 08:31 |
| Macer | i only saw videos of it | 08:31 |
| Macer | pfft. pdf reader :-P | 08:31 |
| Macer | use a browser or something useful | 08:31 |
| Macer | haha | 08:31 |
| zakkm | hah | 08:31 |
| zakkm | im testing it out for first time | 08:31 |
| zerojayPC | Finally. | 08:32 |
| zerojayPC | Hmmm. | 08:32 |
| Macer | was it tspre? | 08:32 |
| Macer | heh | 08:32 |
| zerojayPC | Apparently /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is not the same as the actual /etc/resolv.conf when inside of scratchbox. | 08:32 |
| zerojayPC | Don't know how or why. | 08:32 |
| Macer | hehe | 08:32 |
| Macer | you didn't link it did you? | 08:33 |
| zakkm | ahh wish i had tear :( | 08:33 |
| Macer | zakkm: install it | 08:33 |
| zakkm | i will | 08:33 |
| zerojayPC | No. | 08:33 |
| Macer | heh | 08:33 |
| zerojayPC | I'm not supposed to from what I can tell. | 08:33 |
| Macer | tear is pretty nice | 08:33 |
| Macer | i figured you're not supposed to | 08:33 |
| Macer | well. let me get back go building this stuff | 08:34 |
| Macer | and leave the thing alone.. at least now i can do stuff in the console | 08:34 |
| zakkm | anyone here use bundyo's mplayer 1.0rc2? | 08:34 |
| Macer | on the device :) | 08:34 |
| zakkm | your not a console junkie? | 08:35 |
| zakkm | you can run mplayer in console ? :P | 08:35 |
| zakkm | links -g | 08:35 |
| Macer | can't you run mplayer with fb? | 08:36 |
| Macer | heh | 08:36 |
| Macer | in a console? | 08:36 |
| Macer | i remember being able to do that | 08:36 |
| Macer | on a pc at least | 08:36 |
| zakkm | yeah thats what im saying, why do you need X :P | 08:37 |
| Macer | because i want to see what gentoo can do on the device | 08:38 |
| Macer | evidently Luke-Jr is running kde4 on it :) | 08:38 |
| Macer | that'd be kind of neat to try out | 08:38 |
| zakkm | lol laggy! :P | 08:39 |
| Macer | not to mention that i want to use some sort of office app on the device | 08:39 |
| Macer | with cups support | 08:39 |
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| Macer | i might actually use fluxbox or matchbox | 08:39 |
| Macer | depending on which works better on the tablet | 08:39 |
| zakkm | heh | 08:39 |
| zakkm | fluxbox requires right click :P | 08:40 |
| Macer | :) | 08:40 |
| Macer | right click emulation | 08:40 |
| Macer | and i'm sure that you can change that | 08:40 |
| Macer | it only needs it for its main menu | 08:40 |
| zakkm | lol most important | 08:40 |
| zakkm | your better off with e17 one | 08:40 |
| zakkm | that really cool one for tablets :P | 08:40 |
| Stskeeps | ick enlightenment | 08:41 |
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| zakkm | lol | 08:43 |
| zakkm | tear crashed qtablet | 08:43 |
| zakkm | Stskeeps: is there a way not to have systemui running? | 08:44 |
| zakkm | what does it do exactly? | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | you'd want it there | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | it's the powerbutton and charging screen | 08:44 |
| zakkm | decided to takeover qtablet project , and it always wants to run and shows up in like "systray" | 08:45 |
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| inz | Stskeeps, zakkm, and alarm ui and touch screen and keys lock and device lock | 09:05 |
| zakkm | ???? | 09:06 |
| zakkm | inz: ? | 09:06 |
| zakkm | thats what systemui controls? all that? | 09:06 |
| inz | zakkm, yup | 09:06 |
| zakkm | oh snap shouldnt close that then | 09:06 |
| inz | ls /usr/lib/systemui/ | 09:06 |
| zakkm | nono i trust you :P | 09:06 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:30 |
| AOD_tomaterr | lol | 09:30 |
| zakkm | Jaffa: morning! | 09:30 |
| AOD_tomaterr | its 1:00 am | 09:30 |
| AOD_tomaterr | morning | 09:31 |
| Jaffa | 07:27 here :-p | 09:31 |
| Jaffa | And leaching on the train's free wifi (for first class) | 09:31 |
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| zakkm | its 2;34am here :P | 09:34 |
| AOD_tomaterr | nice | 09:35 |
| zakkm | any of you guys use qtablet? | 09:35 |
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| Andy80 | hi | 10:07 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Thanks for the vertical placement patch =) | 10:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :) | 10:11 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Should have attached damn screenshot too, just to demonstrate that it has been done before =) | 10:19 |
| * RST38h got acquainted with wonderful european Vodafone service. Makes me wish for the MTS takeover of these guys | 10:20 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Would be a waste of an attachment :p | 10:20 |
| RST38h | 12 euros per megabyte of GPRS data | 10:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Vodafone? Bleugh. | 10:21 |
| RST38h | Unless you pay e3.50 a month, in which case it apparently becomes free | 10:21 |
| RST38h | BUT, notice, they do not appear to let SSH traffic through, and I guess IRC is also a no-go | 10:21 |
| johnx | t-mobile USA $10/month for unlimited data (as long as you have dumb-phone) | 10:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: Yes, but I am in Greece, not in the USA :) | 10:21 |
| zakkm | dumb phone? | 10:22 |
| johnx | a non-smartphone :) | 10:22 |
| RST38h | Still can't make the tablet connect to Vodafone, too. It seems to connect, but all HTTP connections time out | 10:22 |
| RST38h | johnx: How do bastards know what phone you have? | 10:22 |
| johnx | IMEI number IIRC | 10:22 |
| johnx | or something like that | 10:23 |
| RST38h | Ridiculous | 10:23 |
| johnx | G1 guys keep getting caught :) | 10:23 |
| RST38h | My guess they do not :) | 10:23 |
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| zakkm | you can change imei number cant you? | 10:23 |
| RST38h | Yuo can but it is 1) usually illegal and 2) pointless | 10:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Illegal and SE phones, at least, have lots of ways to stop this | 10:24 |
| zakkm | why would it be illegal? | 10:24 |
| RST38h | Because big cheeses in the government said so | 10:24 |
| zakkm | im pretty sure my local bootleg mall does it for like $20 or somethin | 10:24 |
| RST38h | Oh, same here | 10:24 |
| RST38h | But it is illegal in many countries | 10:25 |
| zakkm | im in toronto,canada | 10:25 |
| * RST38h wonders if he should shit all over "encourage iPhone developers to develop for Maemo" thread | 10:25 | |
| zakkm | heh | 10:26 |
| johnx | nah, let them have their dream :) | 10:26 |
| johnx | but really, an easier to setup dev env would probably go a looong way | 10:26 |
| zakkm | iphone app making is for money ;p | 10:26 |
| RST38h | zakkm: Probably illegal, given Canadian cryptosocialist nature =) | 10:26 |
| johnx | that and qt | 10:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Of course! Seeing fecal matter on TMO is a good way to start the day | 10:26 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I honestly tried yesterday but Texrat didn't bite | 10:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Oh yeah, I saw :D | 10:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: They are all missing an important ingredient in that thread | 10:27 |
| johnx | RST38h, yes, reality | 10:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: Yuo can SELL iPhone apps. Ok, it is more of a lottery nowadays but you can at least play the lottery | 10:28 |
| johnx | but you're not going to change their mind, probably no matter what you say | 10:28 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 10:28 | |
| zakkm | lottery? | 10:28 |
| zakkm | not at all | 10:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: Can't sell Maemo apps right now | 10:28 |
| zakkm | what you on about :P | 10:28 |
| Luke-Jr | of course you can | 10:28 |
| zakkm | isnt bountys starting? :P | 10:28 |
| Luke-Jr | or rather, you can try to | 10:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: So, it is like that joke - Q: Why modern pop music is so shitty? A: Because you are listening to shitty music | 10:28 |
| johnx | RST38h, preaching to the choir here... | 10:29 |
| Luke-Jr | probably nobody would buy | 10:29 |
| zakkm | also ipod making is easier :P | 10:29 |
| johnx | but even improving 2 out of 3 problems would go a long way | 10:29 |
| johnx | in the height of the zaurus days it seemed like there were more apps for that platform than maemo | 10:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: Also I strongly believe that the only realistic way to get apps on Maemo is to 1) Implement damn MIDP environment and 2) Possibly implement iPhone OS compat layer (althoug Nokia will never do it on their own0 | 10:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: Still, if somebody in the community decides to implement an iPhone compat layer, I am sure many in Nokia will silently applaud | 10:30 |
| zakkm | iphone compat layer.. | 10:30 |
| johnx | RST38h, huh. I was thinking about the same thing: enhancing GNUstep to add iphone stuffs | 10:30 |
| zakkm | iphone uses opengl for everytrhing | 10:31 |
| johnx | but really, "easy to setup dev env + QT" would do so much | 10:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: Except that Gnustep is probably too heavy... | 10:31 |
| RST38h | zakkm: And? | 10:31 |
| zakkm | we cant? | 10:31 |
| johnx | RST38h, nah | 10:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: 1) Agreed. If Nokia do it for their Symbian phones, then it should be done by them for Maemo. 2) I'm not sure about... | 10:31 |
| RST38h | I mean, why try competing with iPhone (a losing battle anyway) | 10:31 |
| RST38h | You have got scores of companies writing MIDP apps, so start with MIDP | 10:31 |
| zakkm | qtablet :) | 10:32 |
| RST38h | Ok, time out, back to the beach. | 10:32 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 10:46 | |
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| fureddo | hi | 10:48 |
| johnx | hey fureddo | 10:49 |
| johnx | make any progress? | 10:49 |
| fureddo | Yes | 10:49 |
| fureddo | The application is in extras-devel | 10:49 |
| johnx | awesome | 10:49 |
| fureddo | Do you have time to test it? | 10:49 |
| fureddo | I don't know if it works really. | 10:49 |
| johnx | was just about to ask if anyone had yet :) | 10:49 |
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| fureddo | It should but I cannot be sure. | 10:50 |
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| fureddo | I have no device after all to really test it. | 10:50 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I've contributed to that thread so an "they're all missing" is a) insulting and b) trolling in a back-channel. | 10:50 |
| fureddo | If you have time, you can try though. It's in the diablo repo. | 10:50 |
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| fureddo | I'm really glad that you helped me, BTW. | 10:52 |
| johnx | I'm glad that you got it in place | 10:52 |
| johnx | I think a lot of people give up on getting things in extras | 10:52 |
| fureddo | I'm not surprised. | 10:52 |
| johnx | installing now :) | 10:52 |
| fureddo | It's quite a task, actually. A real puzzle. | 10:53 |
| fureddo | You must be very motivated to do it. | 10:53 |
| johnx | yeah | 10:53 |
| fureddo | Which device are you using? | 10:54 |
| johnx | have an n800, a borrowed n810, a zaurus c1000 and a zuaurs 5500 | 10:54 |
| johnx | installing on the n800 | 10:54 |
| fureddo | Wow! You're a maniac :-) | 10:54 |
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| johnx | heh, guess I got hooked O_o; | 10:55 |
| fureddo | :-) | 10:55 |
| fureddo | I hope it works otherwise it will be very hard to debug it without a device. | 10:56 |
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| johnx | installs fine, looks rather nice | 10:57 |
| johnx | the font is a little small, but I assume you needed to do that to make it fit | 10:57 |
| fureddo | You can change the font in the Preferences. | 10:57 |
| fureddo | I think you mentioned that you wanted to use it to learn Japanese. So the best way is to download and import a Japanases glossary to really test it. | 10:59 |
| johnx | so, where do I get glossaries? | 10:59 |
| fureddo | You can find some on the website: http://tomotko.sourceforge.net | 10:59 |
| fureddo | In the glossaries section. | 10:59 |
| fureddo | You have to import the zip file as is. | 11:00 |
| fureddo | Don't decompress it. | 11:00 |
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| fureddo | If you could send me some screenshots, that would be very appreciated. You can find my contact info into the About dialog of the application. | 11:00 |
| fureddo | When you have time of course. There is no hurry. | 11:01 |
| johnx | I'll send you a screenshot of the main screen for now at least | 11:01 |
| fureddo | Cool | 11:02 |
| johnx | that way it'll look nice when it gets bumped to extras :) | 11:02 |
| fureddo | Don't forget to tell me if the glossary importation works well or not. | 11:08 |
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| fureddo | Is there no keyboard on the N800? | 11:25 |
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| fureddo | I mean, a real one... | 11:26 |
| johnx | nope, all onscreen | 11:27 |
| johnx | there's one that takes up half the screen and squishes the window and one that is fullscreen and "takes over" | 11:27 |
| fureddo | If you can, include some screenshots of that too. I'm curious to know how it looks like. | 11:28 |
| johnx | not so great, but n800 owners are used to that | 11:28 |
| fureddo | Yeah, you have to, I guess. | 11:29 |
| fureddo | I thought they come with a sliding keyboard. It's probably a different model. | 11:29 |
| johnx | no good way around it I think except for making all the windows have the possibility of having a scrollbar when they get shrunk too much to fit their contents | 11:29 |
| johnx | n810 has the sliding keyboard | 11:29 |
| fureddo | Yes, I can see it now. That's looks good. | 11:30 |
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| fureddo | Do you think that the application is ready enough to be promotable to extra? | 11:31 |
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| Macer | pkg 38 of 110 heh | 11:32 |
| Macer | at least i got kde4.3 going on the debian box | 11:32 |
| johnx | I haven't tested the actual quizzes at all yet, but I don't really see anything wrong with it | 11:33 |
| johnx | and the interface is quite nice | 11:33 |
| johnx | so, is this really the same code that runs in qtopia on the zaurus? | 11:33 |
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| fureddo | Yeah. No modifications. | 11:34 |
| johnx | just wow | 11:34 |
| fureddo | Actually, yes, there are some modifications. | 11:34 |
| johnx | I have some packages that I was missing to "port" | 11:34 |
| fureddo | There are 2 versions: zaurus and qt4. | 11:34 |
| johnx | aaah, I see | 11:34 |
| fureddo | The zaurus version is qt2.3.2 | 11:34 |
| Macer | i guess konqueror doesn't really support much still huh? | 11:34 |
| johnx | yeah, I thought there were some non-trivial changes between qt2 and qt4 | 11:35 |
| fureddo | I decided to port it on windows, linux and macos so I thought that porting it to qt4 would be more appropriate. | 11:35 |
| fureddo | It was not that hard but it still requires some time to do. | 11:36 |
| johnx | does the qt4 interface still cope with being resized to 640x440 or so? | 11:36 |
| fureddo | Yes. You can see some screenshots on the website. | 11:36 |
| johnx | cool, anyways, I probably have to catch some sleep so I'll say good night for now | 11:40 |
| johnx | glad you got it working | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | nini johnx | 11:40 |
| fureddo | Bye! Oyasumi nasai | 11:40 |
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| fureddo | Someone just reported that it works on its N810. | 11:43 |
| fureddo | That's good news. | 11:43 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/14/145/145154.html | 11:55 |
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| Macer | ugh | 12:00 |
| Macer | seriously need to set up nis or something | 12:00 |
| Macer | :) | 12:00 |
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| Macer | adding 1 grp over 3 computers was a pain | 12:00 |
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| Macer | then adding users to it was even more so | 12:00 |
| johnx | LDAP | 12:00 |
| Macer | johnx: tried that once | 12:00 |
| * johnx goes back to sleep | 12:00 | |
| Macer | it was a horror | 12:00 |
| Macer | haha | 12:00 |
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| Macer | it was like a bad horror movie :) | 12:00 |
| zakkm | you guys are still up? | 12:04 |
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| fureddo | Hi zakkm | 12:05 |
| zakkm | johnx: if it helps, i originally tested fureddo's app with quizzes and such and worked perfectly. | 12:05 |
| zakkm | hey fureddo :) | 12:05 |
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| fureddo | :-) | 12:06 |
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| zakkm | didnt think you guys would still be up, i left irc on | 12:07 |
| peremen | i have a question: does maemo sdk(diablo) have virtual keyboard inside? | 12:08 |
| peremen | when i try to activate virtual keyboard it just displays error message: | 12:08 |
| zakkm | i wouldnt know. | 12:08 |
| peremen | hildon-input-method[20164]: GLIB WARNING ** default - No finger plugin installed | 12:08 |
| peremen | google didn't helped me... sad | 12:08 |
| zakkm | it should i would think, otherwise its quite hard to test some apps | 12:09 |
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| Macer | heh | 12:13 |
| Macer | konqueror still sucks pretty bad | 12:13 |
| Macer | too bad | 12:13 |
| Macer | i like it | 12:13 |
| zakkm | heh | 12:14 |
| zakkm | kde3 or 4? | 12:14 |
| zakkm | 3 one is great ;P favourite browser, despite being uber slow | 12:14 |
| pupnik_ | "Mal. Guy killed me with a sword, Mal. How weird is that?" | 12:15 |
| peremen | then i should file a bug about this :( | 12:15 |
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| Stskeeps | peremen: if it helps you, fremantle sdk already has this bug | 12:16 |
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| jaem | hello folks | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | 'lo jaem | 12:19 |
| jaem | I'm reading the Maemo packaging section of the tutorial at http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial/#Creating-Maemo-packages ... | 12:19 |
| jaem | and I'm confused about one line | 12:19 |
| jaem | "debian/[application].link" - This file is needed to make the symbolic link of application desktop file to "etc/others-menu". Maemo desktop file structure is explained in earlier section. | 12:19 |
| jaem | what, exactly, is that file? | 12:19 |
| * jaem hates Debian packages | 12:20 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | What file? debian/[application].link? | 12:21 |
| jaem | yep | 12:21 |
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| jaem | I understand the purpose | 12:21 |
| jaem | just not what the contents are supposed to be | 12:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | You make that file. That file is pretty straight forward: <file to symlink> <destination> | 12:21 |
| jaem | just two fields? | 12:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Yes | 12:22 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | (FYI, I've never had to symlink to /etc/others-menu. Placing a desktop file in /usr/share/applications/hildon/ has been enough for me) | 12:23 |
| jaem | foo.desktop /usr/share/applications/hildon/foo.desktop | 12:23 |
| jaem | like that? | 12:23 |
| jaem | wait | 12:23 |
| jaem | nvm | 12:23 |
| jaem | it's late | 12:23 |
| jaem | I know what you mean now ;) | 12:23 |
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| Macer | well. that kinda sucks | 12:39 |
| Macer | no irc plugin for kopete :) | 12:39 |
| Macer | kind of a let down | 12:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here familiar w/ clutter? :) [and no, i don't mean the stuff that's lying around in my apartment) | 12:50 |
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| jaem | Macer: I think the KDE4 port of Konversation is reasonably useable now | 12:57 |
| jeremiah | timeless_mbp: I have looked at it just a tiny bit. | 12:57 |
| jaem | but don't quote me on that | 12:57 |
| jeremiah | Looks interesting. | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | jeremiah: are you comfortable writing stuff in it? :) | 12:58 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp: if you meant the stuff, I could tell you all about that :P | 12:58 |
| Macer | jaem: kind of like kopete a lot :) | 12:58 |
| Macer | ah well | 12:58 |
| Sho_ | Macer: The KDE4 port of Konversation is just fine | 12:58 |
| jaem | Macer: I'm a fan | 12:58 |
| Sho_ | You can quote me on that | 12:58 |
| jaem | Sho_: yay | 12:58 |
| jeremiah | I'm about to write a demo for the summit, but I probably can't help you since I suspect you may know more than I. :-/ | 12:58 |
| Macer | konqueror still totally blows | 12:58 |
| jaem | Macer: yeah... it needs a lot of work | 12:58 |
| Macer | damn. wtf am i only getting 14MB/s in debian | 12:58 |
| Macer | in win7 i get like 80 | 12:58 |
| * Macer checks his hdparms | 12:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | jeremiah: i know what it can do | 12:58 |
| jaem | Rekonq, while low on features, is fairly nice, and has good KDE integration | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | but i don't speak clutter | 12:59 |
| jeremiah | timeless_mbp: Yeah, I imagine you know more about it than I. | 12:59 |
| Macer | hm | 12:59 |
| Macer | wasn't it hdparms to change hd parameters? | 12:59 |
| jaem | Macer: singular | 13:00 |
| jaem | hdparm | 13:00 |
| Macer | yah | 13:00 |
| Macer | i was trying to tab it | 13:00 |
| jeremiah | timeless_mbp: Out of curiosity, what are you looking to find answers to? | 13:00 |
| Macer | debian doesn't come with it by default? wtf? :) | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i want someone to write an app | 13:00 |
| jeremiah | Macer: Debian lets you install what you need, it cannot read your mind. | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | not answers | 13:00 |
| jeremiah | timeless_mbp: Ah. | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd estimate it'd take about 4 business days | 13:01 |
| jeremiah | To do what? | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | wow, the weather here knocked out my cable reception of BBCWN | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | jeremiah: i'm not going to describe it unless i get an offer to do the work | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | i promise it's interesting and fun :) | 13:02 |
| Macer | Timing cached reads: 2168 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1084.07 MB/sec | 13:02 |
| Macer | Timing buffered disk reads: 194 MB in 3.11 seconds = 62.31 MB/sec | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | and i offer food in payment | 13:02 |
| Macer | aoh | 13:02 |
| Macer | woah too :) | 13:02 |
| Macer | HDIO_GET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device | 13:02 |
| jeremiah | Hmm. | 13:03 |
| jeremiah | I need a demo app to package for the summit . . . | 13:03 |
| jeremiah | But four business days is a long time. | 13:03 |
| Macer | wtf. i'm only getting like 10-20MB/s xfers to this box | 13:04 |
| Macer | in windows i get like 100MB/s | 13:04 |
| Macer | or is windows just lying to me? :) | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | caching does do a lot of stuff | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | what box is it? | 13:05 |
| Macer | just a pc i have | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 13:05 |
| Macer | shuttle k45 | 13:05 |
| Macer | i installed debian on it because i wanted to use kde4 | 13:05 |
| Macer | i'm getting like 10-25MB/s from my fileserver | 13:05 |
| Macer | where in windows i would usually get 80-100MB/s | 13:06 |
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| Macer | hm. is there a way to check to make sure it's cacheing correctly? | 13:07 |
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| * jaem finally got the app packaged | 13:09 | |
| jaem | seriously, whoever invented Debian packages was a sadist | 13:09 |
| jaem | lol | 13:09 |
| jaem | does anyone care to try out the app? | 13:10 |
| jaem | it's a game, in response to a bounty posted on the forums | 13:10 |
| Macer | hahahaha | 13:10 |
| Macer | i would but i'm still building gentoo on my tablet | 13:10 |
| Macer | do you have an ebuild? :) | 13:11 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: on what platform? | 13:11 |
| jaem | if anybody actually knows how to play it, I'd appreciate a test-run; I'm too tired to learn it, and I need to make sure the high scores entry dialog is positioned correctly | 13:11 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp: Diablo | 13:11 |
| Macer | unknown 206[12] (vendor specific) | 13:11 |
| jaem | http://www.sfu.ca/~jgm3/files/maemo/einstein_2.0-1_armel.deb | 13:11 |
| jaem | and Macer: no - I use Arch/*buntu, and occasionally SuSE :P | 13:11 |
| jaem | never Gentoo | 13:11 |
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| jaem | is anyone able to give it a quick test-run, or should I just go to bed? :P | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: nono, debian packages on maemo is insane | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | modern debian is saner | 13:13 |
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| jeremiah | meh. Debian packaging facilitates apt-get | 13:13 |
| jeremiah | apt-get rocks. | 13:13 |
| jaem | Stskeeps: the app currently bombs if you use the window switcher - is that easy to fix, in general? | 13:14 |
| jaem | jeremiah: pacman beats it in some ways, though | 13:14 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: SDL? | 13:14 |
| jaem | Stskeeps: yep | 13:14 |
| Stskeeps | there's a guide how to make that sane | 13:15 |
| jaem | Stskeeps: will I stay sane following it? :P | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | probably | 13:15 |
| jeremiah | jaem: I highly doubt it. Resolving complex dependencies is hard. | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: http://www.colino.net/wordpress/archives/2008/01/17/sdl-applications-and-maemos-task-navigator/ | 13:15 |
| jaem | jeremiah: pacman isn't as good as apt, when it comes to borked dependencies, but I find it nicer to use for general tasks | 13:16 |
| lcuk | jaem, it gets easier | 13:16 |
| jaem | and flexible | 13:16 |
| lcuk | even i can package things quickly now :D | 13:16 |
| jaem | lcuk: %11111000!! | 13:16 |
| jaem | Stskeeps: thanks | 13:16 |
| lcuk | i made liqtorch (and pushed to extras-devel) in 20 minutes yesterday! | 13:16 |
| lcuk | 20 fudging minutes for a whole app :D | 13:16 |
| jaem | ooh | 13:16 |
| jaem | I haven't seen it yet | 13:16 |
| * jaem enables -devel | 13:17 | |
| jaem | temporarily, that is :P | 13:17 |
| lcuk | tho i have to say, i had a bugfix to apply in that as well lol | 13:17 |
| jeremiah | Heh, even lcuk is a convert to debian packaging! :) | 13:19 |
| lcuk | am i hell | 13:19 |
| jaem | oh good grief | 13:19 |
| lcuk | but liqbase is 1 dependency | 13:19 |
| lcuk | and it gives practically everything i need | 13:19 |
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| jeremiah | yeah, have a simple dependency chain makes life so much easier. | 13:19 |
| lcuk | leave the hard stuff in libliqbase which is a kitchensink | 13:19 |
| jaem | I forget which computer I was on, but a few days ago, due to some bug or malfunction, I managed to send 64 variations of the same draft e-mail to someone | 13:19 |
| lcuk | and let apps link to 1 thing makes it much better | 13:19 |
| jaem | actually, about 6 people CC'd | 13:20 |
| jaem | yikes | 13:20 |
| jaem | I also appear to have sent myself five blank e-mails yesterday | 13:21 |
| jaem | this is vaguely odd | 13:21 |
| jaem | well, anyhow, it's 3:30am here, and I have to be up by 9 | 13:22 |
| jaem | g'night, #maemo | 13:22 |
| jaem | thanks for the help | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | g'night jaem | 13:22 |
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| Macer | wow | 13:22 |
| Macer | i can't figure it out | 13:22 |
| Macer | nfs is giving me like 100KB/s | 13:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: does Mer have clutter? | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | no, hence the whole debacle of no fremantle for n8x0 | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | tbh though i'm happy we don't :P | 13:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | isn't it possible to do software rendering? | 13:32 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 13:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok, maybe i'm doing this wrong | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe this should be a web page instead of clutter :) | 13:32 |
| zerojayPC | Through Mesa, but it'll be slow as shit. | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | Mer will have a browser, right? | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, Tear, until something better comes along :P | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | a browser's a browser | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | why should i care? :) | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | can you find someone who can write html? :) | 13:35 |
| * qwerty12_N810 sighs at the shit one has to go through in Maemo just to allow a program to run loaded with a file chosen from the File manager. | 13:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | .desktop / mime database? | 13:35 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc it wasn't too bad | 13:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Got that setup, but writing the handler turned out to be the most fun :) | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | is it just me or has community chatter actually increased quite a bit since it got moved to talk.*? :P | 13:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | what's talk? :) | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | talk.maemo.org, or the hellhole as some might call it ;) | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | (previous iTT) | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | HEL is enough for me | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't need more :) | 13:37 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Don't you like clutter? What kind of problems does it cause on Mer? | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | jeremiah: support for legacy hardware :( | 13:37 |
| jeremiah | Ah. | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | or rather, absolute lack theroef | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | s/oe/eo/ | 13:38 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: or rather, absolute lack thereof | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: i don't like clutter as i think most of the fremantle effects so far could have been implemented without a 3d basis (it helps, obviously), but hildon-desktop is so integrated with clutter we can't do a sane version without them | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | browser as window manager! :) | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | (there actually is a pretty cool gecko based window manager, i can't remember its name) | 13:39 |
| jeremiah | I doesn't have that many deps: Cairo, Pango and some other stuff. | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | GL | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: and GL ES | 13:39 |
| jeremiah | Oh yeah, GL | 13:39 |
| jeremiah | But how hard is that to add to Mer? | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: we don't have 3d drivers in a N8x0 :) | 13:40 |
| lcuk | how hard is it to add gl support to maemo.. | 13:40 |
| jeremiah | Okay, that would be a stopper. | 13:40 |
| lcuk | good/worthwhile gl support | 13:40 |
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| lcuk | good time to wave this again: http://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_justification | 13:43 |
| lcuk | didnt i hear some rumblings that something was in progress | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | no clue when though, and we are actually going more lightweight in mer | 13:44 |
| lcuk | yeah i know | 13:44 |
| lcuk | good to see and hear people discussing lightweight methods of implementing good looking functionality | 13:45 |
| lcuk | decent effects without breaking the cpu budget | 13:45 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, would still be amazing to use the powervr on n8x0 - even if just for games | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 13:49 |
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| slonopotamus | wut? still no powervr drivers? | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | we're just past summer holiday | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | company schedules doesn't always follow open source software schedules :) | 13:51 |
| lcuk | heh | 13:52 |
| lcuk | isnt it the other way round | 13:52 |
| lcuk | companies have schedules | 13:52 |
| lcuk | open source has fun | 13:52 |
| slonopotamus | 'We (the maemo.org community) would like to ask Nokia...' we haven't asked yet?! | 13:52 |
| lcuk | we have | 13:53 |
| lcuk | many many times | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: you'd be surprised what i figured out noone had asked for, but powervr ones people did ask for | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | community doesn't have that amazing track record for actually receiving open sourced stuff though | 13:54 |
| slonopotamus | btw, Stskeeps, aren't you supposed to be with your wife? :P | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: at work | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | gotta feed her too, you know :P | 13:54 |
| slonopotamus | hmm... /me took a vacation when married | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | yea, but i'm finishing my work soon, so | 13:54 |
| slonopotamus | oh, k :) | 13:55 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, with pvr, i dont think anyone would care if it was a microsoft signed binary blob | 13:56 |
| slonopotamus | they opened dsme. and what? | 13:56 |
| lcuk | as long as the fudging thing worked | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: stlc45xx, dsme, hildon input method, .. | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | our track record is a bit shit with actually doing something once it's open sourced :) | 13:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hildon input method is a misnomer | 13:57 |
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| Stskeeps | agreeed | 13:57 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, h-i-m is used in mer, right? | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | upto that point it wasn't really used or developed | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | i'm speaking of contributing back | 13:57 |
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| Stskeeps | same with modern kernels | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | if anyone had bothered to check, they'd have realized just like pokylinux, umac.ko was forward portable | 13:59 |
| Stskeeps | and you didn't have to get a open source driver to keep n800 within a kernel tree | 13:59 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 14:01 |
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| slonopotamus | anyone has docs on running modern kernels? whatever i build just produce black screen and (wd?) reboot after several seconds | 14:02 |
| slonopotamus | at least working combination of kernel version + config | 14:02 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: elinux.org/N800 and prod kvalo | 14:06 |
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| sarower | Hello all, Good Evening! | 14:11 |
| sarower | Any body knows whether it is possible to handle the key event from applet in maemo sdk 5 beta 2 or not? | 14:11 |
| lcuk | sarower, desktop applet? | 14:13 |
| lcuk | i read no | 14:13 |
| sarower | luck: yes... | 14:14 |
| sarower | lcuk: yes.... desktop applet | 14:16 |
| lcuk | im trying to find it now, but im sure i saw something | 14:17 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | There's a Porting to Fremantle page on the wiki which says that they don't support text input | 14:18 |
| lcuk | that would be where i saw it then :) | 14:19 |
| Macer | mmmm | 14:21 |
| Macer | jalapeno cheddar toriitlla combos | 14:21 |
| Macer | they're awesome :) | 14:21 |
| sarower | lcuk: "i read no" is it for me? | 14:21 |
| Myrtti | Macer: :-( make me hungry for things I'm not allowed :-( :-( | 14:22 |
| Macer | wow | 14:22 |
| Macer | my n810 is REALLY hot | 14:22 |
| Macer | Myrtti: haha | 14:22 |
| Macer | i am a big fan of eat when you're hungry | 14:22 |
| Macer | :) | 14:22 |
| * Myrtti donates her gallbladder to Macer | 14:22 | |
| Myrtti | here, you have it | 14:22 |
| Myrtti | I have nothing but trouble because of it | 14:23 |
| Macer | if you weren't meant to eat.. then you wouldn't get hungry | 14:23 |
| Macer | lol | 14:23 |
| Macer | honestly | 14:23 |
| Macer | i'm only saying that because i'm 6' 3" and never get past 200lbs ;) | 14:23 |
| Macer | when i was in the Marines i maxed out at like 198.. but now i'm back down to 190 | 14:24 |
| Myrtti | I'm only saying what I'm saying cause I was in the hospital for the weekend for inflammated gall bladder and pancrea caused by gallstones... *shrug* | 14:25 |
| Myrtti | gave me a diet to be on before they snip the damned thing off with the stones | 14:25 |
| sarower | lcuk: you there? | 14:25 |
| aquatix | Myrtti: ouch :( | 14:26 |
| RST38h | Back | 14:26 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: condolences | 14:27 |
| Macer | my n810 is dying | 14:27 |
| Macer | :) | 14:27 |
| RST38h | Does not sound good | 14:27 |
| Macer | it is really hot from this gentoo stuff | 14:27 |
| Macer | i think if i accidently dropped it in the toilet the water would flash off and the toilet would explode | 14:27 |
| javispedro | I would not expect any other temperature from Gentoo (TM). | 14:27 |
| Macer | don't people get stones from like... too much calcium or something? | 14:28 |
| RST38h | javis: hot, steamy, ... ? | 14:28 |
| Macer | javispedro: it's awesome tho :) | 14:28 |
| javispedro | Athlon-boling. | 14:28 |
| Macer | once i get matchbox going on it.. it will be even awesomer | 14:28 |
| Myrtti | Macer: I'm in the risk group by just being a female on hormonal birthcontrol | 14:28 |
| RST38h | Macer: General water quality in the area, some foods, genetic predisposition | 14:28 |
| Myrtti | sucks to be me | 14:28 |
| Macer | Myrtti: mmmmmm.... combos :) | 14:29 |
| Macer | haha | 14:29 |
| sarower | Any body knows whether it is possible to handle the key event from applet in maemo sdk 5 beta 2 or not? | 14:31 |
| sarower | qwerty12_N810: can you give me this answer? | 14:31 |
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| RST38h | Hmm...he still haunts these parts... | 14:32 |
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| aquatix | Myrtti: sooo, no more munching limestones? so far for hobbies... | 14:32 |
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| Myrtti | aquatix: low-fat... I guess I should eat just rice crackers | 14:34 |
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| aquatix | Myrtti: ick | 14:40 |
| * aquatix doesn't like those | 14:40 | |
| aquatix | Myrtti: good luck though | 14:40 |
| aquatix | gallstones really suck... | 14:41 |
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| Macer | well.kde4 isn't bad at all | 14:45 |
| Macer | it's actually pretty good | 14:45 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, stop eating gravel | 14:45 |
| lcuk | and get well soon <3 (i cant do your cool one lol) | 14:45 |
| sarower | qwerty12_N810: Can you please give me the link? | 14:46 |
| sarower | "There's a Porting to Fremantle page on the wiki which says that they don't support text input" | 14:46 |
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| Macer | is qwerty12_N810 even here? | 14:47 |
| Macer | heh | 14:47 |
| javispedro | sarower (I should give you a "let me google that for you" link since it was first Google hit, but eitherway) http://wiki.maemo.org/Q&A_Porting_to_Fremantle#Limitation_of_Home_Area_applets | 14:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Q&A_Porting_to_Fremantle | 14:48 |
| X-Fade | Sweet, these HIG pages with pictures are coming along nicely: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Human_Interface_Guidelines/Controls | 14:48 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade, wanted to ask: what happens If I edit http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Using_Games_Start-up_Screen ? | 14:49 |
| javispedro | I mean, is the standard way to fix it or should I file bug? | 14:49 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Ask danielwilms. :) | 14:50 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Hideous Done buttons taking 1/3 of the screen are still there =( | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: He seems to be doing the import. | 14:50 |
| danielwilms | hey | 14:51 |
| javispedro | hi daniel | 14:51 |
| javispedro | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Using_Games_Start-up_Screen | 14:51 |
| danielwilms | we are just updating the wiki right at the moment | 14:51 |
| javispedro | ah | 14:51 |
| javispedro | either way, apart from what seems a import problem (missing snippets) | 14:51 |
| danielwilms | and it will take at least today to finish it | 14:51 |
| javispedro | there's a documentation bug | 14:51 |
| danielwilms | so if there is a problem still after that | 14:51 |
| danielwilms | then feel free to edit it | 14:52 |
| javispedro | thank you :) | 14:52 |
| sarower | Thank you....all for this support | 14:52 |
| Myrtti | oh wow, I didn't realise it was online :-D | 14:53 |
| javispedro | "it"? | 14:53 |
| Myrtti | the developer guide in the wiki | 14:53 |
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| javispedro | ah, lol :) | 14:54 |
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| Myrtti | danielwilms: ohai½ | 14:54 |
| * Myrtti collapses back to bed | 14:55 | |
| danielwilms | Myrtti: we are working on it in these days quite heavily...it will be completed by the time... | 14:55 |
| Myrtti | danielwilms: sorry I had to take a sick leave from it :-( | 14:56 |
| RST38h | Umgh...can't hold this notebook any longer. Too hot. | 15:00 |
| RST38h | And that is *battery optimized* mode | 15:00 |
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| wazd | heya everybody | 15:17 |
| Myrtti | oh wow, first snow in finland | 15:18 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 15:18 |
| wazd | Myrtti: noway O_o | 15:18 |
| Myrtti | http://yle.fi/ecepic/archive/00136/Lumi_maassa__k_sjok_136291b.jpg | 15:18 |
| aquatix | Myrtti: wai? | 15:18 |
| RST38h | Ice cream truck crash? | 15:18 |
| wazd | looks like it was just weather.com server problem yesterday, OMW still works :) | 15:19 |
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| slonopotamus | Macer, why you're not happy with mer, i forgot? | 15:20 |
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| AndrewFBlack | Hello | 16:10 |
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| RST38h | EHLO | 16:14 |
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| Woolly | morning chaps | 16:26 |
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| lardman | hi Woolly and everyone else | 16:27 |
| Woolly | lardman: what's crackin? | 16:27 |
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| lardman | Woolly: not much | 16:28 |
| lardman | you? | 16:28 |
| Woolly | same, same | 16:28 |
| Woolly | got an N800 the other day, so have been playing about with it | 16:28 |
| pupnik_ | play nice now | 16:28 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ0HNHO5Uik&hd=1 nice use of gpu for physics simulation | 16:29 |
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| lardman | ah, I thought the corner was going to blow up for something exciting :) | 16:31 |
| Woolly | ditto | 16:31 |
| lardman | though a tilting world would be interesting | 16:31 |
| Woolly | none of this wind effect nonsense | 16:31 |
| lardman | though the wind would be good for explosions too | 16:32 |
| Woolly | some nifty smoke blowing effects | 16:33 |
| lardman | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8182086.stm /me shivers | 16:33 |
| Woolly | screw that | 16:34 |
| Woolly | I dont mind large caves, but pipes are a definite nono | 16:35 |
| ShadowJK | hm, claws seems to choke at around 30,000 mails per folder on N810 :) | 16:35 |
| lardman | Woolly: and pipe liable to fill with water at that! | 16:36 |
| zerojayPC | The presence system tray app... what size icons does it use? | 16:36 |
| aol | ShadowJK: 32768 would be classic :) | 16:36 |
| zerojayPC | For the im protocols. | 16:36 |
| Woolly | lardman: exactly! | 16:36 |
| ShadowJK | aol, nah it just goes into swapstorm | 16:36 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm actually reading mail in a folder of 37000, and it's painful, so I just guessed 30000 is where it gets iffy | 16:37 |
| aol | btw, noob question: does diablo support swap ? | 16:37 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 16:37 |
| aol | does it use the internal flash as swap as default? | 16:38 |
| ShadowJK | you have to enable it | 16:38 |
| aol | ah ok that explains it | 16:38 |
| ShadowJK | and then it creates a ".swap" file on internal flash | 16:38 |
| slonopotamus | aol, it's linux, after all. swapon <whatever you have> | 16:38 |
| AndrewFBlack | 22 | 16:38 |
| aol | fremantle has 1 gb as default? | 16:38 |
| aol | my linux knowledge comes from embedded stuff, so I'm a bit in awe with these "computer features" :) | 16:39 |
| * lardman curses Outlook | 16:39 | |
| aol | busybox etc | 16:39 |
| ShadowJK | swapping on flash is a very slow and painful thing anyway.. | 16:39 |
| ShadowJK | Because of the dreadful random iop performance | 16:40 |
| slonopotamus | better than nfs disk :P | 16:40 |
| aol | well can't be any worse than on netbooks right | 16:40 |
| ShadowJK | it's same class as netbooks | 16:40 |
| aol | atleast my asus 901 gets faster when I switch the swap to external sd | 16:40 |
| aol | ok | 16:40 |
| ShadowJK | It will get faster right after switching | 16:40 |
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| ShadowJK | when the swap file is just initialized, all swapouts will happen sequentially, which is fast-ish on flash | 16:41 |
| ShadowJK | after awhile, swapping will be random read and write, which is horribly slow on flash | 16:41 |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 16:41 |
| ShadowJK | often NFS would be faster :P | 16:41 |
| slonopotamus | i object | 16:41 |
| ShadowJK | but it'd use more power over wifi | 16:41 |
| aol | ok | 16:42 |
| aol | so is it usable after a while? | 16:42 |
| lardman | ~curse Windows | 16:42 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Windows ! | 16:42 |
| aol | I mean on maemo | 16:42 |
| ShadowJK | It does increase the size of programs you can run | 16:42 |
| ShadowJK | by a considerable amount | 16:43 |
| slonopotamus | flash mem doesn't care about sequential/random reads | 16:43 |
| slonopotamus | hdds care. they need to reposition reading head for random reads | 16:43 |
| aol | the new phones will run fennec => lot of swapping :) | 16:43 |
| slonopotamus | lardman, ... | 16:43 |
| lardman | yep? | 16:44 |
| ShadowJK | slonopotamus, flash cares too, you can only erase in 512k blocks. So, if you modify 4k (typical) randomly, the flash controller needs to read 512k into cache, change 4k, erase 512k from flash, write back 512k | 16:44 |
| ShadowJK | so a 4k write becomes a 512k write. | 16:44 |
| ShadowJK | This write amplification causes huge slowdown for random writes | 16:44 |
| aol | is the block size really 512k? | 16:44 |
| aol | i thought 16-32kb | 16:44 |
| ShadowJK | it's on that magnitude.. | 16:44 |
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| lardman | yeah it's not 512kb afaik | 16:45 |
| ShadowJK | 128 - 512 | 16:45 |
| slonopotamus | 128k | 16:45 |
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| slonopotamus | ShadowJK, not true if you use swap file on smart fs :) | 16:45 |
| * aol thinks he needs to increaase his internal buffers then | 16:45 | |
| glass | i guess once upon a time there was 4k flash chips | 16:45 |
| ShadowJK | "faster" devices might actually consist of several flash chips in a parallell raid0 configuratoin, this would increase the block size even further :) | 16:46 |
| lardman | default for jffs2 is 64kb | 16:46 |
| slonopotamus | lardman, it depends on hw, not fs | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | well jffs2 has no say in the matter, it depends on the hw | 16:46 |
| lardman | we're talking SD cards now then? I thought we were talking internal flash | 16:47 |
| * lardman gets back to his work | 16:47 | |
| slonopotamus | both are just a piece of nand memory ;) | 16:47 |
| lardman | yeah, but SD has a firmware layer inbetween | 16:48 |
| X-Fade | And if you look at UBIFS, you see that it works on the bare hardware. | 16:49 |
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| aol | I guess the rx-51 will have it's swap on the huge 32gb storage | 16:51 |
| aol | but dunno what is the block size there | 16:51 |
| aol | I hope it supports SDXC | 16:52 |
| ShadowJK | swap doesn't work on ubifs/jffs2 anyway :) | 16:52 |
| aol | like rumors say 5900 will | 16:52 |
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| ShadowJK | Anyway, I compiled swapon from util-linux since it lets you set priority, which busybox swapon doesn't let you | 16:54 |
| ShadowJK | that way I have swap both on internal and external at equal priority | 16:54 |
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| ShadowJK | Before launching a big program (like boswars or before reading huge folders with claws) I cycle swap off and on, on both swapfiles | 16:55 |
| pupnik_ | achaa | 16:55 |
| ShadowJK | when I launch the program, swapout of the rest of the system will be mostly sequential and pretty fast when it goes to both cards at once | 16:55 |
| ShadowJK | It's funny when it's much faster to read in entire swapfile and write it out again :) | 16:56 |
| pupnik_ | did you post that to talk.maemo ? | 16:56 |
| pupnik_ | i could see it helping on some of these borderline games | 16:56 |
| ShadowJK | no | 16:56 |
| lardman | aargh, bloody Windows | 16:56 |
| ShadowJK | My thing would probably be faster if I had swap on one card and game data on the other card | 16:57 |
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| javispedro | "Please put a bullet in these shaky cams. For whatever reason they're being used, it's not worth it." -- Couldn't agree more. | 17:06 |
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| zerojayPC | ? | 17:08 |
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| javispedro | zerojayPC, slashdot comment about some recent movie (district 9) | 17:10 |
| GAN8001 | lol | 17:11 |
| GAN8001 | That's the problem with original style choices. | 17:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Everybody else insists on over using them for the next 30 years. | 17:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | How many war movies have ripped off Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers since those came out? | 17:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good movie, though, all the same. | 17:12 |
| javispedro | makes me sick :( | 17:13 |
| aol | I love BoB, hated SPR | 17:13 |
| aol | hope the pacific is as good as bob | 17:13 |
| glass | i've been watching too many war documents lately :p | 17:14 |
| aol | BoB has a nice "feel of war" ... forests of bastogne were amazing | 17:15 |
| glass | aol: seen the semi-recent törni document? the one with phantom soldiers included | 17:15 |
| aol | nope. | 17:15 |
| glass | worth watching | 17:15 |
| aol | maybe I should, having had some relatives involved in activities like törni... | 17:16 |
| javispedro | lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cloverfieldwarning.jpg | 17:18 |
| javispedro | that's what you get with "shaky cam" | 17:18 |
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| lopz | hola | 17:20 |
| Woolly | cloverfield was bobbins | 17:20 |
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| glass | aol: you definetely should then | 17:20 |
| aol | cloverfield was crap | 17:21 |
| aol | somehow shaky cams did not bother me in bob | 17:21 |
| glass | cloverfield felt like you saw the movie in the trailer | 17:21 |
| aol | but in cloverfield i was furious | 17:21 |
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| javispedro | I can't stand them in the big screen, and on little screen they remind me our current dvb-t broadcasts are interlaced. | 17:22 |
| javispedro | so they suck either way. | 17:22 |
| glass | aol: the small bits i saw felt like intentional shaking of the cam rather than 'normal' | 17:22 |
| aol | yep, it's feld out of place | 17:23 |
| glass | like fckkk.. we could shoot more stable whilst drunk in a nightclub with a 7650 so wtf :D | 17:23 |
| aol | as well as the "video camera effect" | 17:23 |
| aol | maybe that was because of crap quality effects :) | 17:24 |
| aol | to mask them :) | 17:24 |
| glass | hehe | 17:25 |
| GAN800 | Be nice to go back to tracks and dollys. ;) | 17:26 |
| GAN800 | Even steadycams aren't so steady | 17:27 |
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| glass | robotic arms for camerastands and such are a lot easier and cheaper to build nowadays than say 50 years ago | 17:28 |
| glass | for movie making cherry picking shots | 17:28 |
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| glass | if the director isn't a total douche it doesn't matter that much | 17:29 |
| Woolly | I'm having a bit of trouble with gprof. I compile my c files, and use the -o flag to create my output, then specify the -pg flag. Upon running my output, the gmon file isn't created. Any ideas? | 17:31 |
| javispedro | you have to add -pg to the linked cmd line too. | 17:32 |
| javispedro | *linker. | 17:33 |
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| Woolly | javispedro: I'm compiling and linking on the one line at the moment though, I think | 17:33 |
| Woolly | gcc -Wall -o quirp file1.c file2.c file3.c -pg is what I've got | 17:34 |
| javispedro | oh, true. does it work on desktop gcc? | 17:34 |
| Woolly | ahha! | 17:34 |
| Woolly | it's not exiting properly, I kill it | 17:34 |
| Woolly | which doesn't cause the gmon.out file to be created | 17:35 |
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| javispedro | :) I couldn't get gprof to work in the device, so I have my hopes on oprofile | 17:37 |
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| Woolly | javispedro: even with it exiting nicely? | 17:38 |
| javispedro | it crashes :( | 17:38 |
| Woolly | damn | 17:39 |
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| Woolly | silly question, but on the N800, is the SD bus underclocked? | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | there's 48mhz kernel i think | 17:48 |
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| javispedro | mmu_screen: there will be a Haiku alpha soon it seems. | 18:09 |
| javispedro | hows your work going? | 18:09 |
| zerojayPC | Screenshots of Facebook running through RTCOMM - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30843 | 18:21 |
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| wjt | zerojayPC: good stuff! | 18:22 |
| zerojayPC | Thanks. | 18:22 |
| wjt | i'll try to make time to look into the issues you're seeing | 18:23 |
| zerojayPC | Are you one of the Collabora guys? | 18:23 |
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| * zerojayPC won't be happy until he clicks on the Presence system tray icon and sees the list of connected protocols covers his screen, muhahahaha. | 18:24 | |
| mmu_screen | javispedro: Johannes managed to jump to the kernel last week | 18:24 |
| mmu_screen | on ARM | 18:24 |
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| wjt | zerojayPC: yup, for my sins I wrote haze | 18:26 |
| javispedro | mmu_screen, cool :) | 18:26 |
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| zerojayPC | wjt: Well, I'm no programmer.. and it's essentially just a simple hack.. but just the fact that I could even get it working this easily is a testament to your work on haze. | 18:27 |
| javispedro | mmu_screen, can you point to the gsoc reports? (if they have been written, of course)? | 18:27 |
| zerojayPC | wjt: And thanks for anything you can help with. | 18:28 |
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| mmu_screen | he didn't blog recently, but he's writing a new item | 18:30 |
| javispedro | np, I know these things are the hardest ;P | 18:30 |
| wjt | zerojayPC: I'm glad it wasn't too hard :) | 18:30 |
| mmu_screen | http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/1727 | 18:31 |
| javispedro | yep, seen that already | 18:31 |
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| mmu_screen | http://www.freelists.org/post/haiku-development/testing-the-ARM-port-was-Re-Haikucommits-r32408-haikutrunksrcsystembootplatformuboot | 18:32 |
| mmu_screen | if you want to try | 18:32 |
| javispedro | thanks | 18:32 |
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| * lardman recommends that people don't manually create correlation masks | 18:54 | |
| lardman | at least not to try to correlate with dithered numbers | 18:54 |
| zerojayPC | wjt: Happen to have a myspace.profile laying around? | 18:57 |
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| wjt | nope, sorry. | 18:57 |
| * zerojayPC cracks knuckles and starts typing away on his N810. | 18:58 | |
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| andre__ | hmm. diablo SDK really did not include a finger keyboard? | 19:04 |
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| * andre__ confused and can't remember | 19:04 | |
| danielwilms | andre__: diablo did | 19:05 |
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| andre__ | heja danielwilms. asking because of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4933 | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: it really did not | 19:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It only came with the example input method which is the stylus input method only. | 19:06 |
| andre__ | heh. | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | only stylus example and probably not set up | 19:06 |
| andre__ | ah... probably wontfix for diablo anyway :-/ | 19:06 |
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| danielwilms | we discussed about that shortly today...but let me have a look at the bug again :) | 19:07 |
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| danielwilms | Stskeeps are you sure?? hmmmm... :) | 19:07 |
| andre__ | and just realized that nokia calls the "finger keyboard" in diablo "virtual keyboard" in fremantle. while "virtual keyboard" in diablo has been dropped. fun, wondering what to do in bugzilla now to reduce confusion. sigh | 19:07 |
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| andre__ | maybe i should prepare dinner while thinking about it... :) | 19:08 |
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| danielwilms | andre__ leave it open I'll have a look tomorrow | 19:09 |
| Macer | hm | 19:10 |
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| dopper | does anyone know where personal menu stores its configuration file? | 19:12 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | /home/user/.personal_menu.rc | 19:13 |
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| dopper | thanks qwerty12 | 19:16 |
| fiferboy | thanks qwerty12 | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | what, fremantle no longer has a small on-screen virtual kb? | 19:18 |
| * mgedmin unhappy | 19:18 | |
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| jeremiah | Really, I thought most people hated the virtual keyboard. | 19:30 |
| Macer | it helps for quick things | 19:32 |
| Macer | i the qwerty isnt too good on an n810 | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | some keys are difficult to find on the hardware kw | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | especially when you're typing regexes in vim | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | also, you need both hands to use the hardware kw, while one hand is sufficient for the vkb | 19:33 |
| jeremiah | okay, makes sense. :) | 19:34 |
| * mgedmin has this bad habit of reading while eating, and wants to be able to fix OCR mistakes in ebooks | 19:34 | |
| Macer | haha | 19:34 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: ping? | 19:40 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, | 19:50 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: How do you store your huge liqbase db on the device? | 19:50 |
| lcuk | i havent worked that out yet, it starts small and grows lol | 19:51 |
| lcuk | its in /media/mmc2 at the moment | 19:51 |
| lcuk | but it should ask and use where told | 19:51 |
| lcuk | cos someone with n800 might not have mmc2 | 19:51 |
| fiferboy | That's what I am thinking | 19:52 |
| lcuk | im actually almost at the point of dropping the db for a while | 19:52 |
| lcuk | if i cant solve some other issue i have :)( | 19:52 |
| fiferboy | On first run have the user decide where to store the database, store that location in the config file in the user's home | 19:52 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: What issue are you having? | 19:53 |
| lcuk | latency - the old system is instant. the full database has an (acceptable to everyone else but me) latency | 19:53 |
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| lcuk | it gives nice things and new features | 19:54 |
| fiferboy | Your old system was filesystem-based? | 19:54 |
| lcuk | yeah | 19:54 |
| lcuk | each sketch is a file | 19:54 |
| lcuk | to show a cell in the calendar for instance, it simply tries to load that file | 19:54 |
| lcuk | for even thousands of files | 19:54 |
| lcuk | its really ridiculously quick | 19:54 |
| lcuk | but i havent got tagging and grouping as i want with that | 19:55 |
| lcuk | i'll make it work :) | 19:55 |
| fiferboy | I can see where a database would be better for searching by metadata | 19:55 |
| lcuk | its tonnes better, i work with databases all day and have the web database for liqbase stuff | 19:55 |
| lcuk | and since i made same on the device i've been umming and arring | 19:56 |
| lcuk | its the first time i have had to cnsider compromising fluidity | 19:56 |
| lcuk | ive been talking to some sqlite people and seeing if theres anything i can do | 19:56 |
| fiferboy | You would likely need to take the same approach for storage regardless - ask the user where to store file/db | 19:57 |
| lcuk | but i fear i might just be at the limit of what is workable - 100mb of data on these tiny devices is a lot | 19:57 |
| lcuk | yeah | 19:57 |
| lcuk | but because the system comes with no user data its different | 19:58 |
| fiferboy | Maybe the RX51 will handle it better | 19:58 |
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| lcuk | i am writing to ~ | 19:58 |
| lcuk | which is the proper place for all user data | 19:58 |
| lcuk | any hacks (like mmc2) would likely come via a symlink than movign the physical file | 19:58 |
| lcuk | so codewise still acts like a legit linux app | 19:59 |
| fiferboy | I would write the config file to ~/.birdlist/birdlist.ini with an entry for where the database is stored | 19:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Who'd want mmc2 with 32GB? :D | 19:59 |
| lcuk | hellllllllllllllllllllyeah | 19:59 |
| * lcuk salivates | 19:59 | |
| lcuk | i'd be happy with bigger than the 1gb memory card im using at the mo lol | 20:00 |
| lcuk | i loath having to use the 2gb internal | 20:00 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, are you going to allow the user to choose *anywhere* | 20:01 |
| lcuk | or just a few select locations | 20:01 |
| lcuk | (think, birdlovers wouldnt know how big different folders are or how much space there is | 20:02 |
| fiferboy | Anywhere would be more device-agnostic, but have more likelyhood to screw up | 20:02 |
| lcuk | s\birdlovers\users\ | 20:02 |
| lcuk | yeah, i see it as being standard for users to try to write db into / ;) | 20:02 |
| lcuk | and how would they know | 20:03 |
| fiferboy | Yup | 20:03 |
| lcuk | if you run your app on something like the smartq - do they have mmcs ? | 20:03 |
| lcuk | or desktops - do users need the choice | 20:03 |
| fiferboy | I have no idea what smartq has, and desktops wouldn't need the choice | 20:03 |
| lcuk | perhaps, it would be better to say fukkit, store it in ~ and find a global solution for users | 20:03 |
| lcuk | who want to move their whole ~ to somewhere with more space | 20:04 |
| fiferboy | This is the trouble I am running into, I was hoping you had solved all this already :) | 20:04 |
| lcuk | i havent, i just used mmc2 as i said | 20:04 |
| lcuk | lol | 20:04 |
| * timeless_mbp just had fun breaking an applet | 20:04 | |
| fiferboy | Back to the drawing board | 20:04 |
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| lcuk | what i did do tho - is the database was liqbrain_user.db | 20:04 |
| lcuk | or liqbrain_root.db | 20:04 |
| fiferboy | Ah, if multiple users choose to store their database in the same directory, good catch | 20:05 |
| lcuk | yeah - unlikely but when i was devving i noticed it | 20:05 |
| lcuk | qwerty | 20:05 |
| lcuk | how does the OS choose where ~ is | 20:05 |
| lcuk | globally | 20:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | /etc/password? | 20:06 |
| lcuk | and can i just map it to /media/mmc2 or somwhere i *know* ive got space for the whole thing | 20:06 |
| lcuk | (and doesnt that also free up issues of space on / | 20:06 |
| lcuk | i dunno, is a password file where the filesystem is generated? | 20:06 |
| kfx | users are assigned $HOME in /etc/passwd | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: you can also change HOME for a single process | 20:07 |
| lcuk | o_O | 20:07 |
| * timeless_mbp typically does: HOME=/tmp/timeless; mkdir $HOME; cd | 20:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | there are minor issues like Xauth | 20:08 |
| timeless_mbp | but for certain kinds of apps it's sufficient | 20:08 |
| lcuk | ok, so its a technicality, but feasible | 20:08 |
| lcuk | (me is attacking this from a C:\documents and settings" pov | 20:08 |
| * mgedmin remembers trying to deploy a web server that wanted matplotlib, which wanted to *write* to stuff in $HOME | 20:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | as long as your app doesn't do something stupid like talk to lots of other processes | 20:09 |
| lcuk | well, assume global | 20:09 |
| lcuk | that doesnt need symlinking or mounting things and stuff does it | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | but normally you'd just change /etc/passwd | 20:09 |
| lcuk | its just an edit of the /etc/passwd? | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 20:09 |
| lcuk | cool, thanks qwerty, kfx | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | or if you're on solaris you'd poke around w/ the automounter | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | which is much more fun | 20:10 |
| lcuk | i'd prefer that solution, especially if i could attempt it on my 810 - it frees up much needed space | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | if home = /home/timeless and there's an automounter, that can mean anything :) | 20:10 |
| lcuk | see comment above about windows ;) | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | just keep in mind that your n8x0 likes to try to share its memory card via usb | 20:10 |
| lcuk | oooh early t ready, thx guys \o | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | which results in apps being um... well | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | fremantle will be more fun | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | you'll be able to give certain apps ghosts | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | or at least get them to see ghosts | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i think i got one app to see two ghosts :) | 20:11 |
| * fiferboy goes for coffee to think about database storage | 20:11 | |
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| * lardman heads off | 20:23 | |
| lardman | bye chaps | 20:23 |
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| lcuk | timeless_mbp, whats a ghost? | 20:39 |
| VDVsx | ghost process, I assume :) | 20:41 |
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| lcuk | well since we have ghost apps already, im not so sure that was the intent | 20:47 |
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| VDVsx | liqxxx is a ghost app ? :P | 20:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ghost? | 20:48 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, its not a ghost app | 20:50 |
| lcuk | you have to enter thumbprint identification to run it tho | 20:50 |
| VDVsx | ehehhe | 20:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: maybe you should make it use fingers instead ;P | 20:51 |
| javispedro | liqxxx? you're genius. that's some app the iphone is not getting. | 20:51 |
| timeless_mbp | the ghost was a memory card | 20:51 |
| lcuk | ahh, like ms shadow copy facility thingy | 20:51 |
| lcuk | so even tho its in use its accessible elsewhere? | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | nah | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | like bad accounting | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | the system tells applications when memory cards appear | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and it tells them when they disappear | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | if applications aren't careful, they can miss a disappear message | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and decide they have 2 cards | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | even if they were only told about the same card twice | 20:53 |
| lcuk | ahh | 20:53 |
| * lcuk understands now | 20:53 | |
| timeless_mbp | in my case, i think i managed to get an app to think it had 3 cards, not two | 20:53 |
| lcuk | so you may end up scanning the media twice or something | 20:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | in this case, the app was the thing that says how much disk space things have free/avail | 20:53 |
| timeless_mbp | so, it isn't a particularly interesting app | 20:54 |
| timeless_mbp | i just thought i could break it | 20:54 |
| * timeless_mbp is pretty good at that | 20:54 | |
| lcuk | that is useful | 20:54 |
| timeless_mbp | breaking things? | 20:54 |
| lcuk | and your breakage of said app is even more useful | 20:54 |
| timeless_mbp | the app isn't actually useful | 20:54 |
| timeless_mbp | since it can't keep track of all the proper things anyway | 20:55 |
| lcuk | yeah, i noticed at the last summit you had a knack of bre\kin stuff | 20:55 |
| lcuk | so i took my ball home and didnt let you play :D lol | 20:55 |
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| zerojayPC | lol | 20:56 |
| lcuk | fiferboy | 20:58 |
| fiferboy | lcuk | 20:58 |
| lcuk | your database, its in sqlite format isnt it | 20:59 |
| fiferboy | Yessir | 20:59 |
| lcuk | did you design the schema for it | 21:00 |
| fiferboy | I did | 21:00 |
| lcuk | if i get the schema for mine to you, could you give it a once over and see whether ive made any complete cockups | 21:01 |
| fiferboy | Certainly | 21:01 |
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| lcuk | i know its easir having the app, but its in bits atm | 21:01 |
| lcuk | easier | 21:02 |
| lcuk | it probably wont be tonight tho, ill give you a shout tomorrow probably if thats ok | 21:02 |
| fiferboy | The table creates statements and a document describing relationships should suffice | 21:03 |
| fiferboy | Tomorrow is fine with me | 21:03 |
| lcuk | cool ok, gives me time to write up the doc lol | 21:03 |
| fiferboy | I found it very odd designing tables in sqlite, as it is not a strongly-typed database (to say the least!) | 21:03 |
| lcuk | yaeh, its a bit looser than the databases im normally sitting on | 21:04 |
| lcuk | do you create from code, or from a template blank db? | 21:04 |
| fiferboy | That's for sure, and even when you do define data types, you don't have to stick to them | 21:05 |
| fiferboy | I have the create statements in sql text files (in case I screw up the template), and a template database | 21:05 |
| lcuk | heh, thats how i started here, but ive got a set of upgrade functions that start from having no file at all now | 21:06 |
| lcuk | and when i make amendements they are done incrementally with whatever conversions would be required | 21:06 |
| fiferboy | Ha. That's how I started and now I am doing it the other way! | 21:06 |
| lcuk | (i hold a version field) | 21:06 |
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| fiferboy | A version field would probably be a good idea for me too, so I can alter existing database after software upgrades | 21:07 |
| fiferboy | Fortunately, not releaseing anything yet I haven't had to deal with that | 21:07 |
| lcuk | yeah well thats why its there - im expecting my db to grow from here | 21:07 |
| lcuk | since it contains pretty much everything i write | 21:07 |
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| fiferboy | How many tables do you have? | 21:08 |
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| lcuk | 4, liqbrain_info,liqusers,liquserfriends,liqpebbles | 21:10 |
| lcuk | same as the web db | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | the liqpebble one is the massive one tho | 21:11 |
| lcuk | it contains the river of sketches and photos and text notes and tags | 21:11 |
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| fiferboy | liqbase treats each type the same (sketch, photo, notes, etc) | 21:13 |
| fiferboy | ? | 21:13 |
| lcuk | yeah - just a blob of typed data | 21:13 |
| fiferboy | Gotcha | 21:13 |
| lcuk | the alternative wouldv been minimum 3 query lookups for each of the datatypes, then software merging | 21:13 |
| lcuk | and others for the tags and ratings | 21:14 |
| fiferboy | Does this ease interoperability? (ie. using sketches in calendar) | 21:14 |
| lcuk | select pebbledata from pebbles where datestamp='17aug2009' | 21:14 |
| lcuk | yeah | 21:14 |
| lcuk | its also excellent for sync | 21:15 |
| fiferboy | Is there a place that you notice latency most? Or is it a general increase over the filesystem method? | 21:15 |
| lcuk | inserts went from 0.1-0.2 seconds to over 3 seconds | 21:16 |
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| lcuk | obviously its not that bad for a near empty db | 21:16 |
| lcuk | but since its for my data - having that everytime kills it for me | 21:16 |
| * lcuk is his worst critic | 21:16 | |
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| fiferboy | Do you have lots of indexes? | 21:17 |
| lcuk | 6 | 21:18 |
| lcuk | which is prolly the reason lol | 21:18 |
| fiferboy | Hmm, indexes make SELECTs faster, but slow down INSERTs | 21:18 |
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| lcuk | yeah i know - it hasnt made that much difference tho, ill remove them and do a full reimport and see | 21:19 |
| lcuk | i think i changed another option at the same time as putting indexes on | 21:20 |
| lcuk | i had no indexes at first | 21:20 |
| chx | Hi i am using telepathy how can i send an irc command? What i type starting with / just appears | 21:20 |
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| fiferboy | I guess it depends on whether the hit to SELECTs is significant | 21:20 |
| lcuk | yeah, ill have a play - ill let you know more - ill get a proper outline together anyway, is beneficial for more than just this peek | 21:21 |
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| lcuk | thanks fifer :) | 21:21 |
| fiferboy | Yup | 21:21 |
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| lcuk | doh! | 21:26 |
| lcuk | helps if i make the archive available to import from | 21:26 |
| lcuk | just removed every index | 21:26 |
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| lcuk | the other change i made was putting bulk inserts inside a transaction - cos they were the slowest point | 21:26 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: Bulk imports on the device take too long even with transactions, that's why I changed to providing a pre-loaded database file | 21:31 |
| fiferboy | Won't work for you, or course | 21:31 |
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| lcuk | it will :D | 21:31 |
| lcuk | but until we have screens like tracing paper it will be hard | 21:31 |
| lcuk | mmmmm tracing paper | 21:31 |
| lcuk | i wonder what i could do with that | 21:31 |
| lcuk | ;) | 21:32 |
| fiferboy | What about having the camera on the back of the device display an image that you can draw an overlay on? | 21:32 |
| fiferboy | Digital tracing paper? | 21:32 |
| lcuk | heh | 21:32 |
| lcuk | theres a button in the top right of liq* apps | 21:32 |
| lcuk | when you press it it | 21:32 |
| lcuk | half brights the screen and turns it into tracing paper | 21:33 |
| lcuk | you can draw ontop of anything in the system | 21:33 |
| fiferboy | Nice! | 21:33 |
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| lcuk | it will also eventually give access to help menu and contact info, but its a nice little feature | 21:34 |
| lcuk | lets me make notes about what i am doing | 21:34 |
| lcuk | and what needs to be done | 21:34 |
| lcuk | and lets me draw mustaches on photos :D | 21:35 |
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| lcuk | :D 97% of archive copied | 21:36 |
| lcuk | i wonder how long a full sync will take from device to device via web | 21:36 |
| fiferboy | Mustaches on photos should be the selling point of that feature | 21:36 |
| lcuk | indeed it is :) i like to have a pen handy all the time | 21:37 |
| lcuk | draw round something on a screen and go "wtf" is another thing im doing a lot of recently | 21:37 |
| lcuk | because its saved in the database with a key containing the screen name | 21:37 |
| lcuk | its easy to bring up all the notes ive made when im working on it | 21:37 |
| fiferboy | You could sell a device with liqbase installed to Perez Hilton and make his job easier | 21:38 |
| * fiferboy is deeply ashamed he suggested that | 21:38 | |
| lcuk | ive gotta get everything else working first | 21:38 |
| lcuk | but thats mostly done now | 21:38 |
| lcuk | i made a complete app from end to end and pushed to extras-devel in 20mins yesterday | 21:39 |
| lcuk | :) its getting easier | 21:39 |
| lcuk | still rough around the edges, but i can see where its goin | 21:39 |
| fiferboy | How many liq-based apps are in extras-devel? | 21:40 |
| lcuk | 2 now :) | 21:40 |
| lcuk | the playground has 40 widget/microapps tho that could be packages as standalone | 21:40 |
| lcuk | and are mostly test | 21:40 |
| lcuk | done before i knew how to package it up on its own | 21:41 |
| lcuk | things like the calendar will be standalone or integrated | 21:41 |
| lcuk | the map viewer isnt standalone anymore - thats going to be a standard pic viewer for anything in the river | 21:42 |
| fiferboy | And the mustach-drawer | 21:42 |
| lcuk | built into the library | 21:42 |
| lcuk | basic core functionality lol | 21:42 |
| lcuk | i like to draw.. | 21:42 |
| lcuk | biggest problem ive ever had has been text input :) | 21:43 |
| lcuk | ive never "made" my own textbox before | 21:43 |
| lcuk | now i have a funky one that works well enough to just use | 21:43 |
| lcuk | its even got vkb integration (thanks to z4chh) :) | 21:44 |
| fiferboy | Cool | 21:44 |
| lcuk | yeah, im really pleased with how the code is coming together. its probably gonna fall flat on its face at some point, but im ready for that i think | 21:45 |
| fiferboy | Have you pretty much written everything in low-level C, or do you use some higher-level libraries? | 21:46 |
| lcuk | its all in c | 21:46 |
| lcuk | i would like one day to find a way to use the qt support libraries tho | 21:47 |
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| lcuk | i doubt ill ever be able to support the widget (qt widgets have a different rendering tactic that doesnt suit the resolutionindependent methods i have in place | 21:47 |
| fiferboy | Which libraries are those? | 21:47 |
| lcuk | everything non visual lol | 21:48 |
| fiferboy | You can use the Qt libraries without the GUI portion pretty easily, but adjusting your code would definitely be non-trivial! | 21:48 |
| * lcuk is a qualified c++ dev, i know object oriented code is better for larger stuff | 21:48 | |
| lcuk | my code doesnt have to change - id just add c++ bindings | 21:49 |
| lcuk | its laid out in classes anyway | 21:49 |
| lcuk | its as clean as i could make it | 21:49 |
| fiferboy | Ah | 21:49 |
| lcuk | i just shift over and start writing liq* apps using qt | 21:49 |
| SpComb | hearing "qualified C++ dev" sounds funny | 21:50 |
| lcuk | but with the low level stuff taken care of | 21:50 |
| lcuk | SpComb, i dont make use of my quals tho | 21:50 |
| lcuk | i was trying to say "i know how to write c++ stuff" | 21:50 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, when i started writing the library (after last summit) the first thing i tried was doing it in c++ | 21:52 |
| lcuk | but compilation time is a bitch on device | 21:52 |
| fiferboy | I bet | 21:52 |
| lcuk | its fine in c, infact better than fine - its fast | 21:53 |
| lcuk | fast enough that i almost wish i could download source and compile on the fly ;) | 21:53 |
| fiferboy | I'm surprised you didn't use python ;) | 21:53 |
| lcuk | but n810 doesnt have enough space on / for most users with multiple apps | 21:53 |
| lcuk | i started with python | 21:53 |
| lcuk | but it was too slow | 21:53 |
| lcuk | so i dusted off my (ancient) c stuff | 21:54 |
| lcuk | and got to work | 21:54 |
| fiferboy | It is mostly initialization time with python, isn't it? | 21:54 |
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| SpComb | python code can be profiled/optimized with some effort as well | 21:55 |
| lcuk | no | 21:55 |
| lcuk | and no | 21:55 |
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| SpComb | so you can write the code, write the tests, and profile/optimize in the same time it takes you to just write the C code :) | 21:55 |
| lcuk | SpComb, have you seen liqbase | 21:55 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY if not | 21:56 |
| lcuk | and this c code will last me a lifetime | 21:56 |
| SpComb | pixel manipulation is one of the weak points, yes | 21:57 |
| lcuk | it wont be once liqbase has bindings | 21:57 |
| lcuk | python is great for glue | 21:57 |
| lcuk | most important part - ive put into code things ive thought about | 21:57 |
| lcuk | and really pleased with the results and met loads of interesting people along the way | 21:58 |
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| lcuk | btw spcomb, that video is now almost 6 months old | 21:59 |
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| slonopotamus | Macer, it works? :) | 22:00 |
| SpComb | still a bit far from the iPhone :) | 22:01 |
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| lcuk | SpComb, iphone can go ** itself, i stopped fingerpainting years ago | 22:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles slumps down and dies. | 22:04 | |
| lcuk | again | 22:04 |
| lcuk | you wont respawn this time | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, that's so awesome. | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ohsit! Gray screen! | 22:04 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, yes, please? | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, finger keyboard/virtual keyboard. | 22:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to tell Nokia that consistency is king. | 22:05 |
| andre__ | i think i'm going to move the virtual one to x-graveyard | 22:05 |
| andre__ | and open a new product. :-/ | 22:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, where are Nokia's naming conventions exposed? | 22:06 |
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| andre__ | they exist?! | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can we just supercede them? :D | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, as far as the keyboard goes. ;D | 22:07 |
| andre__ | probably in some UI Spec files. i tried hard, but i haven't read all of them ;-)) | 22:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | s/supercede/supersede/ | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, if we just ignore THEIR naming convention, how many strings in the OS are we going to have problems with? | 22:08 |
| lcuk | when translation gets done, you dont translate logs too do you? | 22:09 |
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| zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: No one over at Nokia seems to care abouth consistency. | 22:10 |
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| zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: And it's one of the things I would be throwing chairs about if I worked there. | 22:10 |
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| lcuk | throwing chairs only increases the furniture bill | 22:11 |
| zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: And the fact that I can't touch those strings until after release makes it that much more infuriating. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | and generally causes those that could fix it to be off work | 22:11 |
| zerojayPC | lcuk: IKEA? | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, yeah, nasty, maybe it'll be better for Harmattan. | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha: http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/t-mobile-g1-wont-see-any-android-updates-beyond-1-5/ | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | The oft-touted openness of Android fails again. | 22:11 |
| zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: That's why we're pushing to test out Transifex in the next sprint. | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: hah | 22:12 |
| andre__ | i must even say that calling the onscreen keyboard "virtual keyboard" makes sense, now that the other virtual one is gone | 22:12 |
| * divide_by_zero , nearly napping, suddenly envisioned Steve Ballmer throwing chairs at his room and screaming "consistency, consistency, consistency!" | 22:12 | |
| zerojayPC | divide_by_zero: Except I have more hair. | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, yeah, I agree, but. . . . | 22:12 |
| divide_by_zero | :) | 22:12 |
| lcuk | and hopefully less sweat | 22:12 |
| zerojayPC | That's something I cannot promise you, especially on days like today. :/ | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, well, how many virtual input bugs do we tend to get? | 22:12 |
| lcuk | lol | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, triaging them to the right place probably wont kill us. | 22:13 |
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| lcuk | damn import is takin forever | 22:13 |
| andre__ | i think we'll survive. i'll come up with something(tm) | 22:13 |
| lcuk | andre__, i was under the impression nokia said "just because there is only one keyboard by default, doesnt mean others wont be created" | 22:14 |
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| Stskeeps | don't get me started on that one.. | 22:14 |
| lcuk | which i take to mean you may still have duplicity in future | 22:14 |
| andre__ | lcuk, also true | 22:14 |
| lcuk | so still take care with wording | 22:14 |
| lcuk | heh Stskeeps | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | especially since they changed API to be unrecognisable and virtual keyboard doesn't work, and the replacement one doesn't work yet cos of the confusing API :) | 22:15 |
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| lcuk | lols @ sts's rattled cage | 22:15 |
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| lcuk | huzzah! import finished | 22:16 |
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| thopiekar | hi | 22:17 |
| thopiekar | I want to buy a programable board, but I don't know where.. Do you know? :/ | 22:19 |
| slonopotamus | thopiekar, beagleboard.com? | 22:20 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: You are doing a database import on the device? | 22:20 |
| lcuk | yeah unindexed | 22:20 |
| lcuk | to see the difference | 22:20 |
| lcuk | and its drastic | 22:20 |
| lcuk | the calendar doesnt work at all now lol | 22:21 |
| thopiekar | slonopotamus: will check that site out.. thanks :) | 22:21 |
| lcuk | oh, there we go | 22:21 |
| lcuk | its finally found the records | 22:21 |
| fiferboy | Long query? | 22:22 |
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| thopiekar | but aren't the specialised on "dev-boards"? | 22:22 |
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| slonopotamus | thopiekar, i hope i understood what you meant by 'programmable board correctly' | 22:22 |
| lcuk | basically "select pebbledata from liqpebble where class=cal and datestamp=date" | 22:22 |
| slonopotamus | s/y'/rd'/ | 22:22 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: thopiekar, i hope i understood what you meant by 'programmable board correctlrd' | 22:22 |
| lcuk | like i said up there ^ | 22:22 |
| slonopotamus | meh | 22:22 |
| thopiekar | I actually don't want a dev board for maemo fremantle you know :) | 22:23 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: So the indexes (indicies?) made a bit of a difference? | 22:23 |
| lcuk | yeah | 22:24 |
| lcuk | it then pushed the main problem to inserts | 22:24 |
| lcuk | its managable with the indexes | 22:24 |
| lcuk | and ill do inserts in a thread | 22:24 |
| lcuk | ill have to | 22:24 |
| lcuk | i was creating the files anyway (never stopped) ill just set a thread going and tell it which file | 22:24 |
| fiferboy | I would suggest inserting the data initially to a non-indexed "staging" table then pushing them to the correct table, but I think I would be concerned with data loss | 22:25 |
| fiferboy | And you would be moving the problem to the background, like your threading idea anyway | 22:25 |
| thopiekar | slonopotamus: I'm searching for a board with less features like the beagleboard has... | 22:25 |
| thopiekar | just for little and simple programms | 22:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | thopiekar, Arduino? | 22:26 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, after an insert i expect the sync to kick in anyway | 22:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | thopiekar, "programmable board" is a pretty meaningless description. | 22:26 |
| lcuk | dataloss isnt a real problem during content creation | 22:26 |
| lcuk | every sketch still has a uid | 22:26 |
| thopiekar | I see :/ | 22:26 |
| lcuk | and a file | 22:27 |
| lcuk | its the tagging and rating thats gonna be a bitch | 22:27 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, surprisingly, when i do the lookups based on id its ok | 22:28 |
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| lcuk | the normal wall loads up a dataset containing only id | 22:28 |
| lcuk | and creates however many empty pebble_view views | 22:28 |
| lcuk | only when a pebble_view is shown on screen does it load | 22:28 |
| lcuk | so the graffiti wall itself is safe | 22:28 |
| lcuk | o_O | 22:29 |
| fiferboy | The id number would be stored in the table sequentailly anyway, right? | 22:29 |
| lcuk | make datestamp an int and index it | 22:29 |
| lcuk | its autoindex | 22:29 |
| lcuk | uniquekey | 22:29 |
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| lcuk | thats the only index left in the table | 22:29 |
| lcuk | ie, not explicit | 22:29 |
| fiferboy | Do you use INTEGER AUTO INCREMENT in the table create? | 22:29 |
| thopiekar | GeneralAntilles: thanks, could be the kind of board I looked for! | 22:29 |
| lcuk | yeah | 22:30 |
| fiferboy | Ok, that's the only strict datatype in all of sqlite | 22:30 |
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| lcuk | the other indexes were done in update2, so were like: | 22:30 |
| lcuk | create index liqpebble_datatitle ON liqpebble(datatitle); | 22:30 |
| fiferboy | Right | 22:31 |
| fiferboy | I'm going to try indexing my tables and see what kind of difference it makes | 22:31 |
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| lcuk | yeah, you have less inserts than im expecting | 22:31 |
| fiferboy | Well, I have a couple of static tables, but most will accept inserts and updates | 22:32 |
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| fiferboy | But not on the order of magnitude you are using, probably | 22:32 |
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| lcuk | yeah, your updates will be in clusters | 22:33 |
| fiferboy | Right | 22:33 |
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| lcuk | the updates for me are fast clusters - and have to be faster than turning a page | 22:33 |
| fiferboy | Does sqlite3 ".indices %" return all indexes for you? | 22:35 |
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| fiferboy | It does, but creating a two-column index on a 300K row table takes a while on the device... | 22:40 |
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| lcuk | apologies | 22:45 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 22:45 |
| lcuk | the sqlite3 exe wasnt included i thought | 22:45 |
| fiferboy | I found out, I was just being lazy | 22:45 |
| fiferboy | I compiled it and transfered it to my tablet | 22:45 |
| lcuk | heh | 22:45 |
| lcuk | i have always prefered working from code | 22:46 |
| lcuk | i am afraid of the (admittedly powerful) linux command line | 22:46 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, really glad we had a chat, i am gonna vanish properly now | 22:52 |
| lcuk | at least i know where some of the issue lies :) thanks | 22:52 |
| fiferboy | No problem, talk to you later | 22:52 |
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| thopiekar | GeneralAntilles: do you know other microcontroller boards, where I would be able to program in C++ or even Python? | 22:53 |
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| thopiekar | aah excause me, GeneralAntilles, the IDE is written in Java and which allows to write programms in c++... | 22:58 |
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| jX | hey timeless, I just popped in too. :) | 23:09 |
| jaem_N810 | hey folks | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm at dinner | 23:09 |
| jX | ok, so, my 810 is nearby, but I don't know where. I have mplayer installed, and mp3s on the device. Can someone tell me a commandline to get the little jerk to play an MP3 so I can find out where it's hiding? | 23:10 |
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| jaem_N810 | mplayer filename.mp3 | 23:14 |
| jaem_N810 | there are more options, but that'll do it | 23:14 |
| jaem_N810 | ;) | 23:14 |
| jX | yeah, I tried that jsut now, because I'm dumb and didn't think of it first | 23:14 |
| jX | should work | 23:14 |
| jX | but | 23:14 |
| mmu_screen | vlc ! | 23:14 |
| jX | [MENU] Can't open menu config file: /root/.mplayer/menu.conf | 23:14 |
| jX | oh, wait | 23:14 |
| jX | I might be dumb again | 23:14 |
| Firebird | you could try going to user "su - user" | 23:14 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | mmu_screen: on Haiku, VLC may be a better choice but mplayer is better in Maemo :p | 23:15 |
| jX | nvm | 23:15 |
| jX | I'm jsut dumb | 23:15 |
| jX | I found it! | 23:15 |
| Firebird | you found it? | 23:15 |
| jX | yay! | 23:15 |
| jX | I should have tried before asking here but I have had a bad day and am not thinking clearly. | 23:16 |
| jaem_N810 | does anyone here know much about SDL on Maemo | 23:16 |
| jaem_N810 | jX: don't worry about it - we all have those days | 23:16 |
| jX | fwiw, the song I picked to find it was the theme from Flash Gordon, from Queen. so I heard it yell, "Flash! Ahhhhhhhhhh!" | 23:16 |
| Firebird | not sure about the maemo part bt SDL, yes | 23:16 |
| jaem_N810 | Firebird: the app uses rightclick events. Any idea what the easiest way to provide that on the N810 would be? | 23:17 |
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| divide_by_zero | Savior of the Universe!!! | 23:17 |
| Firebird | change it so it has to recognize a click and a hardware button at the same time would be my idea | 23:17 |
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| jaem_N810 | makes sense | 23:17 |
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| jaem_N810 | is that fairly straightforward if I RTFM? | 23:18 |
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| mmu_screen | qwerty12_N810: eh, need to replace it then ;) | 23:19 |
| mmu_screen | it's not been ported ? | 23:19 |
| mmu_screen | odd, it even works on iphone I heard | 23:19 |
| mmu_screen | and it's french technology ;) | 23:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It has, but MPlayer still kicks its ass :p | 23:19 |
| Firebird | jaem_N810, maybe something like "if(event->type == SDL_MOUSEBUTTONDOWN && event->key.keysym.sym == SDLK_F1)" | 23:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mmu_screen: I must boycott it, then, in that case ;P | 23:19 |
| jaem_N810 | Firebird: thanks! | 23:20 |
| mmu_screen | vlc is kinda slow and crashprone at least on BeOS due to ffmpeg being too sensitive abotu stack alignment, but at least it runs and plays anything | 23:20 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, do you use oo.o? | 23:28 |
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| Luke-Jr | no | 23:30 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, koffice? | 23:30 |
| Luke-Jr | rarely | 23:30 |
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| slonopotamus | i c | 23:30 |
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