IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-08-17

lcukthought i would wake up a monster :D00:00
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javispedrowell, up so far I wasn't able to get any h264 broadcast here, so good luck guysoft :P00:02
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javispedroI was surprised to see there's no decent snes emu for the iphone00:06
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javispedrothe only one I could find (snes4iphone) is also a drpocketsnes port but with the C core afaik.00:06
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javispedroso if that is faster than my port I'll suicide ;P00:07
johnsqjavispedro: why not ported zsnes?00:08
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: Thanks for your work, BTW. I'd never predicted that I'd see a SNES game running at a decent speed on my N810. :)00:09
javispedrozsnes has loads of i386 asm up to the point there's not even a amd64 port yet.00:09
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javispedro"decent", "decent".... depending on game :P00:10
johnsqjavispedro: aha, but amd64 isn't needed, because 32bit is still running.00:10
lcukjavispedro, become a marketer :) show off the games which work well00:11
lcukand remember to mutter WMMV :)00:11
qwerty12_N810Super Mario All Stars seems to be OK :D00:11
javispedroyou tried?00:11
lcukok or kickass?00:11
javispedroah, with the no input version.00:11
javispedroqwerty12_N810, put this into ~/apps/ and try the extras-devel version00:13
javispedropupnik ^^^ too00:13
javispedroif you have time of course, don't want to pressure you into bricking your tablet................00:14
javispedrojoking ;)00:14
qwerty12_N810The N800 is heading that way, so it's pretty much the device where I do anything with it :p00:15
pupniknoted, ty javispedro00:16
javispedroif the gui does nothing.... dbus issue (i still have to look at it), the binary is at /usr/games/drnoksnes00:18
javispedro(it does something on my tablet, of course :) )00:19
johnsqhehe just reading it on gizmodo00:21
JaffaNo Rover from the look of it00:25
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lcukdid the fcc document show the dimensions of the rover00:28
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Jaffalcuk: I don't believe so00:29
lcukshame, i couldv started fabbing a new cradle00:29
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VDVsxmaemo game expert!!00:40
VDVsxthat's you qwerty12_N810 :) ^00:40
VDVsx does Donkey Kong Country runs on n8x0 ?00:40
qwerty12_N810How's that me? It's javispedro's work :p00:40
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VDVsxI guess you have more experience *playing* and testing :P00:41
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lcukqwerty is actually a nokian and he sits in a spherical room with walls coated in different tablets00:43
javispedroah, he's the matrix architect then :D00:44
lcukbehind him hes got 770s, at the left its the 800s to his right, 810s and infront the rovers00:44
lcukabove and below are his narcotic tablet supply00:45
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: was the start button mapped to anything?00:48
javispedrospace bar I think00:48
javispedroah, you're trying on N800 :P00:49
qwerty12_N810No, N810 :)00:49
javispedrosomeday there'll be an actual key mapping gui :) for now see the .txt file :)00:49
qwerty12_N810Thanks :)00:50
VDVsxwhat is the best SNES emulator available from maemo ?00:50
* VDVsx grabs Donkey Kong Country rom00:51
javispedroVDVsx, depends on what you want: speed or accuracy ;)00:51
VDVsxjavispedro, all of the above :)00:52
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VDVsxjavispedro, I want to be able to run DK country, if possible :)00:53
qwerty12_N810Turns out that renaming it from drnoksnes.txt to DrNokSnes.txt actually helps...00:54
javispedrolol sorry!00:54
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javispedroare you trying sm all-starts? I'd expect 30/60 fps, with sound.00:55
* javispedro meant all-stars.00:56
qwerty12_N810Yep, averaging around 2800:56
* qwerty12_N810 can live w/out sound. He usually has the media player open :)00:57
pupnikaww ... maybe for tetris00:58
pupnikbut not for other stu00:58
pupnikff like the rpgs00:58
pupnikthough, come to think of it - a lot of games on snes were annoying musically - fighting games etc00:59
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javispedro:P I like the SMKart music00:59
javispedro(even though it's one of costly games, up to the 10/60 fps mark :( )01:00
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* VDVsx installs DrNokSnes01:02
* javispedro wishes VDVsx good luck :)01:02
VDVsxjavispedro, bad one ?01:02
javispedrooh, it at least seems to work for someone :)01:03
javispedroalpha-status I guess.01:04
VDVsxbet it won't work for me :P01:04
johnsqjavispedro: you can write dsp code to get faster emulation01:05
javispedrorendering, rendering is the problem.01:05
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javispedroVDVsx, DKC may actually work :D01:11
javispedro25/50 (pal)01:11
VDVsxgot a nice black screen with DrNokSnes01:11
javispedrowhen launching game?01:12
VDVsxand my tablet is somewhat 'crashed'01:12
javispedroah, xsp left enabled.01:13
javispedroit crashed. bad rom?01:13
javispedroif you're still in that "state" ssh in and kill drnoksnes (or reboot)01:15
javispedroor try the esc key01:15
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VDVsxgot some strange resolution problems after exit the emu, now rebooting :)01:16
javispedroyes, here be dragons if it crashes while pixel doubling is enabled01:16
pupnikso perhaps snes9x was surprisingly fast after all01:17
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pupnikor just run the program and exit again to clean up01:18
pupnikif it's just an up-arrow + enter  in your xterm01:18
VDVsxjavispedro, rom is fine, works in snes9x on my desktop :)01:18
javispedrohe was using the gui, I guess i'll have to handle it crashing from the gui01:19
javispedropupnik, what you mean with snes9x? I tried with all the settings I could, and couldn't get SMWorld to work in anything other than slowmo ;)01:22
qwerty12_N810Does that make the game any easier? :)01:22
javispedroqwerty12_N810, it does. but then you can enable frameskipping and it makes it ultra-hard01:23
javispedroone frame rendered and the next one you're already dead.01:23
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javispedrowhile on drpocketsnes you can easily get 30/60, which is enough for me.01:24
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pupniki thought drpocketsnes would be a bit faster tbh01:27
guysoft42does sgoerg come here?01:27
javispedroI did too01:28
pupnikjavispedro: is the 'gpu' doing scanline or tile-based rendering?01:28
javispedrotile afaik, but not sure :P01:28
pupnikformer is accurate, latter fast01:28
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javispedroonly bsnes uses scanline afaik01:29
javispedroto tell the truth, I've never been an optimizing guy.... :P01:29
pupniksquidgesnes used tile iirc01:30
pupnikwell me neither01:30
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pupnikbut a random walk gets you through some forests01:30
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javispedroI am surprised in the difference between the gp2x announced framerates and the ones I get.01:33
javispedroit's not line I'm using another gfx pipeline.01:33
infobotjavispedro meant: it's not like I'm using another gfx pipeline.01:33
javispedroa start on optimizing it would be knowing how to profile it ;)01:34
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pupniki would like to say something, but i have nothing to say, so i'll say 'what a nice day!'01:36
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guysoft42hi all, my scratchbox uname -r gives my computer's kernel, and the prompt looks different, -  sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL:  . is there a way to rest it?01:59
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, ^02:01
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qwerty12_N810No idea on the prompt and point the Makefile in whatever module you're compiling to the Diablo kernel sources directly02:03
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, how?02:05
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guysoft42qwerty12_N810, how do i point it to another kernel? its just a make command02:06
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qwerty12_N810Yes, that reads a Makefile02:06
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guysoft42qwerty12_N810, i dont know what to write in the commandline for that02:08
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javispedroGuySoft, go to & paste the first 30 lines of the "Makefile" file02:10
qwerty12_N810*Edit* the Makefile and change the folder/logic it uses to find the kernel source. I'm not psychic either so I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly what to change02:10
javispedroahhh I remember this02:11
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javispedroGuySoft, make KERNELRELEASE=current02:12
GuySoftah! its you, javispedro ..02:12
javispedroyes, I am the same guy as javispedro too. ;)02:13
guysoft42File not found: /lib/modules/current/build/include/linux/netdevice.h at scripts/ line 15.02:13
guysoft42ah wait, confused with sgoerg02:14
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javispedroGuySoft, go to /usr/src02:14
javispedroand unpack kernel-source-diablo.tar.bz202:14
javispedro(i am doing that since I found that  /lib/modules/current/build -> /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL/usr/src/kernel-source-diablo , if that's not in the default scratchbox please correct me).02:15
guysoft42javispedro, ah, ok02:15
guysoft42let me try in a sec02:16
guysoft42javispedro, unpacked now what? running in the make folder gives the same error02:17
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javispedrodoes "ls -l /usr/src/kernel-source-diablo/" work?02:19
javispedrolists you COPYING, CREDITS, Documentation,... (aka is a kernel source root)?02:19
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guysoft42javispedro, yes, the kernel is there02:20
guysoft42javispedro, isn't this a problem?: uname -r02:20
javispedrono, thats normal behaviour02:20
lcukis someone else getting same02:21
lcukFile not found: /lib/modules/2.6.27-9-generic/build/include/linux/netdevice.h at scripts/ line 15.02:21
lcukSeth, that was what I mentioned last night. Martin is correct, you need to edit the .version file in the gspca source to match your kernel release (’uname -r’ in a terminal to see what it is).02:21
javispedrodoes the file exist guysoft? "ls -l /lib/modules/current/build/include/linux/netdevice.h" maybe the symlink is not made.02:21
lcuk^^^ that doesnt make sense, but thats what multiple people are suggesting for the fix02:22
javispedroyep I remember that02:22
javispedroI used to just run make clean and let the autodetection create it again02:22
javispedro(I used to pull the v4l experimental tree when my dvb-t card drivers were still there)02:22
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guysoft42javispedro, /lib/modules/current/build/include/linux/netdevice.h02:23
guysoft42ls: /lib/modules/current/build/include/linux/netdevice.h: No such file or directory02:23
javispedroaha, so the symlink is broken02:23
guysoft42hmm, so what to do?02:23
javispedrowell, try to cd into that dir and find which directory does not exist ;)02:23
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guysoft42javispedro, 'build' is not there02:24
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javispedrowell, "ln -s /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL/usr/src/kernel-source-diablo build"02:25
javispedro(inside that dir)02:25
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guysoft42if this works.. it will be really cool02:26
Robot101zerojayPC: cheers, I got it. will poke them later in the week02:26
guysoft42javispedro, BTW, i saw talks saying dvb-t does not run, do you know why>02:26
javispedrohope so. you'd have good luck since this is an old kernel and you're building an experimental tree.02:26
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javispedro*you'd better have good luck.02:26
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javispedroI know nothing.02:27
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javispedrouh oh.02:27
javispedrov4l in the diablo kernel is builtin, isn't it?02:28
guysoft42javispedro, i hope so :-)02:28
guysoft42javispedro, that is an experimental driver02:29
javispedrothis is no good then02:29
javispedroyou'll get a v4l.ko module you won't be able to load02:29
javispedroand unless you're VERY VERY lucky the driver you're interested in will reference newer v4l symbols your current diablo kernel won't have.02:29
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javispedrowhich driver is, btw?02:31
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guysoft42javispedro, ec16802:35
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guysoft42javispedro, wone compile.02:41
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javispedrowont compile?02:42
javispedroGuySoft42 ^^^02:42
zerojayPCRobot101: Thanks. I don't know if I gave them everything they'll need or not.02:43
guysoft42javispedro, other drivers give errors, like requiring PCI support.. needy.02:44
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orangeyhey all04:49
orangeyHas anyone here used grandcentral?04:50
gogolyou mean google voice?04:50
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orangeyhow is it?04:53
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gogolgreat! im using it right now.  use it all the time. you can get a free gizmo5 num and then have free calls, inbound and outbound.04:55
gogoljust google gizmo maemo google voice, youre sure to find how-tos04:55
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gogolcheck this out too:05:06
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orangeygogol: Sounds pretty good05:07
orangeydo you have an invite you could share?05:07
orangeygogol: Also, how does it deal with SMS?05:08
orangeyis your primary number the google voice number?05:08
orangeyI'm not keen on getting locked into google.05:08
orangeybut nothing else offers two-way SMS right now05:08
gogolmembers dont have invites, you have to sign up for one.  you can do it on GV's homepage. im told it doesnt take but hours sometimes, at most a few days.05:08
gogolyes, your primary number is one assigned to you in an area code of your choice.05:11
orangeyonly in the US, ostensibly05:11
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gogolim two-way sms-ing with a bunch of people, yes05:11
orangeysounds like it won't be useful for me, since I"m based in Canada05:15
orangeybut thank you for the walkaround on it05:15
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gogolim told there's one area code in canada that google missed.  you might try googling it.05:22
zerojayPCSomewhere in Alberta,  I think.05:22
Macerthis gentoo install is on glib205:24
orangeyas in, an area code that they accept?05:24
* Macer sits it in a spot where it will have power and just walks away for a week05:26
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orangeymacer: Why put yourself through the pain?05:29
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orangeygentoo was very, very useful because it allowed you to have the most current software05:30
orangeynow ubuntu does that just fine05:30
orangeyminus the compiling05:30
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zakkmanyone happen to know the difficulty of startng a VOIP business?05:35
Macerorangey: because gentoo works better than mer as far as things just working :)05:37
Macerit's just like a PC install05:37
orangeyooooh. for your n8x0?05:37
orangeywow. Didn't even think of that as an option05:37
zerojayPCHe needs a hobby. ;)05:37
orangeymost important thing for me: Does it run some SIP client?05:38
Macerheh. me neither until Luke-Jr kept talking about it05:38
Macerorangey: i think it pretty much runs whatever gentoo can build05:38
orangeyI can't leave maemo until I can find something that runs a SIP client05:38
orangeymacer: That's a temptress05:38
orangeymacer: Let me know if you can use SIP via ekiga, say05:38
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orangeyI actually use my n810 quite heavily05:38
orangeyfor email (claws), as my main phone (sofia-sip) and for maps (maemo mapper). ALso, recently, I got more into podcasts with gpodder05:39
zerojayPCHonestly, I'm not sure it would work well.05:39
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orangeyzerojayPC: I'm sure it wouldn't ; )05:39
zerojayPCThe codecs used on the tablet were made for lower end machines as far as I know.. and I doubt Ekiga has them.05:39
Macerorangey: sorry. i don't use sip05:40
orangeyI'm holding out hope for mer05:40
Maceri wouldn't know what to test it on05:40
orangeymacer: That's easy. I could help you with that no problem05:40
orangeyjust start ekiga05:40
orangeycall a test number (i.e., )05:40
orangeyand if you can hear it, and it can hear you, we'll call that "success"05:40
zakkmekiga would take long enough to open it up, that it wouldnt be very helpful :P05:41
Macerwon't work05:42
Macerdon't think sound is working05:42
zakkmsound works in gentoo?05:42
zakkmdoesnt it?05:42
Macerthat's the only thing05:42
Maceri dunno05:42
zakkmim sure they got sound working05:42
MacerLuke-Jr said it might05:42
zakkmit was an added step though05:42
Maceri'm sure05:42
Maceri'm going to figure that out later after everything is done building05:42
Maceri'm building X now05:42
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Macerwell.. it's on build 6 of 12605:43
zakkmi want gentoo :D05:43
Macerbuilding glib205:43
zakkmhave it in a dualboot05:43
zakkmfavourite distro :P05:43
Maceri hate dual booting05:43
zakkmyeah me too05:43
Maceronly time it makes sense on the n81005:43
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zakkmi wanted to port gentoo wayy before i got my nokia05:43
zakkmso bak in like 2007 i wanted to port it :P05:43
orangeyi can't imagine inflicting such pain upon myself05:43
Macersomeone else accomplished it05:43
orangeythis works well enough05:44
zakkmalso back then it was just a nokia 770 , and well n800 i think was coming out/ came out05:44
Macerthey did quite a bit of work to get it going05:44
zakkmoh sorry sound doesnt work, i thought i saw it05:44
MacerLuke-Jr just sent me his keymaps05:44
orangeyany more news on the new device?05:44
orangeythe successor of the n810?05:44
zakkmripoff :)05:44
Macerzakkm: heh. they said it might05:44
Macertold me to look at sound in deblet05:44
Maceron the nit talk05:44
zakkmah no, i thought i read it, i was wrong05:44
zakkmohh that might of been it05:44
Maceri guess to get it working uses the same type of steps05:45
zakkmcant do it though without hardware keyboard :(05:45
zakkmi wanted to do irssi , and links  possibly links -g05:45
Macerzakkm: well on an n80005:45
Maceryou have to ssh and install X and use a soft keyboard05:45
Maceryou can just chroot to set it up05:46
zakkmafter X its pointless05:46
zakkmi wanted console.05:46
Maceryeah well. no soft kb in console05:46
Macerunless you want to write one :)05:46
zakkmthats why i wanted a n810 :P05:46
zakkmwrite one?05:46
zakkmcould you?05:46
zakkmthat cant work can it?05:46
Macershit. i can't05:46
zakkmno i mean05:46
Macerwhy not?05:46
zakkmis it possible05:46
Maceri'm sure it is05:46
zakkmbecause of the way console works and such05:46
Macerprobably need a replacement ncurses based console with keys on the bottom?05:46
Macermaybe that would work?05:47
zakkmit cant accept touchscreen , without X?05:47
Maceryou can use dpad + ncurses to send keymaps ?05:47
zakkmah i guess so with ncurses05:47
Macerjust an idean though05:47
Maceri don't know if that would even be possible :)05:47
zakkmi didnt think of that05:47
zakkmreason i should of bought a n810 :P05:47
Maceri'm sure it can be05:47
Macerzakkm: they aren't that expensive05:47
Macer250 or so05:47
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zakkmi just bought a 23.3" 2048x1152 widescreen :P05:47
zakkmim broke05:47
zakkmi just bought it yesterday05:47
zakkmand dont you remembe rme trying to trade you ? n800 + cash? :P05:48
zakkmor paypal w.e05:48
zakkm250 is alot, i would just buy a ipod or a netbook05:48
Maceroh yeah05:51
Maceri wouldn't give up the qwerty ;)05:51
Macerplus i needed the n810 for the gps05:51
zakkmi was going to buy n810 , my n800 isnt totally that new05:52
zakkmbut n810 was like $300 (CAD )05:52
zakkmand n800 i got for $14505:52
zakkmso it would of been twice the price05:52
zakkmtwice the price for a keyboard? :P05:52
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Macerand gps ;)05:53
zakkmi cant drive though, and i know my city, ive never moved.05:53
zakkmwell i can drive, with adult :P but yeah05:53
zakkmand at that itme i didnt have any part of license05:53
Macerglib itself is going to take all day haha05:54
Macerah well05:54
Maceri'm going to do stuff05:54
zakkmits a 400mhz arm :P05:54
zakkmof course05:54
zerojayPCInstalling and dealing with the Maemo SDK is so much easier with a debian install.05:55
zakkmit should be.05:57
zerojayPCBut it shouldn't be.05:57
zakkmthey're both debian05:58
zakkmdebian has things and packages different than others05:58
zerojayPCI know.05:58
zakkmothers distros should be supported yes, and work okay but you cant beat debian itself05:58
zakkmthats like saying making ipod apps is so much easier in mac... or making xbox apps/games is so much easier in windows05:59
zerojayPCAnd I would say the same thing in those cases.05:59
zerojayPCI shouldn't HAVE to be tied down to that platform.05:59
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zerojayPCNot so bad for Xbox or Maemo... but requiring Macs for iphone development is pretty shitty.06:00
zakkmbut theres reasons for it06:00
zakkmiphone requires xcode to compile06:00
zakkmalso uses alot of builtin mac stuff06:00
zakkmbut i mean you cant beat native..06:00
zerojayPCYes, done like that to force you to buy the hardware. :)06:00
zakkmyeahh im aware from a business perspective06:01
zakkmbut theres also reasons behind it06:01
zakkmfrom a tech view06:01
zerojayPCThose reasons could all be worked around if they wanted.06:01
zerojayPCBut they don't.06:01
zakkmwhich much effort, and worked around... exactly06:01
zakkmjust like using sdk in other distros06:01
zakkmare workaround06:01
zakkmit cant beat debian06:01
zerojayPCBut it shouldn't be.06:01
zerojayPCEspecially for Maemo.06:01
zakkmdebian puts things in different places, has different packages and ways of compiling06:02
zerojayPCAt the very least, give us a VMWare virtual hard drive image.06:02
zakkmit uses dpkg-deb in most cases, which doesnt obviously exist in non debian distros06:02
zakkmthere is one?06:02
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zakkmmaemo sdk vmware virtual image06:02
zakkmare you kidding me?06:02
zerojayPCNot for Maemo 5.06:02
zakkmwell thats still new06:02
zakkmthats not even out yet06:03
zerojayPCThere were some for previous versions of the SDK.06:03
zakkmwoooh darwine :D06:05
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Macerglib2 finished06:08
Macer>>> Emerging (7 of 120) app-admin/eselect-opengl-1.0.6-r106:09
* Macer stops the emerge06:09
zakkmjust leave it plugged in06:09
Maceri just am not seeing it06:09
Macerrequiring opengl ;)06:09
zakkmuse use flag  "-opengl"06:09
Macerdidn't think about it06:10
Macerah screw it06:10
zakkmyou should always check flags, when doing emerge06:10
zakkmand always do emerge -av   at least06:10
Macerusually i would06:10
zakkmeselect-opengl isnt a compile anyways.06:10
Maceri'll just leave it06:10
zakkmits just a download and copy06:10
Macerti's just a script06:10
zakkmbut it will bring opengl with it06:10
Maceroh. thought it was a script06:10
Macertaht's fine06:10
zakkmit is06:10
Maceri might need mesa06:10
zakkmbut if thats there..06:10
Macersure it would go slow as shit but it will be there :)06:10
zakkmso is opengl .. possibly emerge 60 of 120..06:10
Macerwhatever. i'll just install everything to make sure06:11
Macerwho knows. i might run into something that requires opengl or something06:11
Macer--newuse ftw06:11
zakkmtheres no need for newuse06:12
zakkmwell couldnt hurt06:12
Macernot now06:12
Macerlater might work06:12
Macerthen i can get rid of unnecessary deps06:12
Macerdepending on how well gentoo works with that06:13
zerojayPCEnjoy your copy of Mesa. ;)06:13
Macerfear mesa06:13
Maceri'll probably get like .001fps06:13
Macerin glxgears in gentoo on an n81006:13
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zakkmglxgears isnt a benchmark.06:13
zerojayPCMesa made a big deal about using the PS3's cell and SPEs to accelerate graphics in PS3 Linux... which has no acceleration whatsoever.06:14
zerojayPCglxgears goes from 120FPS to 192FPS.06:14
zerojayPCStill completely useless for anything fun though. :/06:14
zakkmglxgears isnt a benchmark though06:14
Luke-Jrzakkm: sound works with 2.6.30-rc806:14
Luke-Jron N81006:14
zerojayPCIt doesn't need to be an official benchmark06:14
zakkmthat wasnt actually for me, cause i cant use it but yeah thanks :)06:14
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zerojayPCBut the numbers are still somewhat valid.06:15
MacerLuke-Jr: diablo-sources ?06:15
zakkmrc8 ? didnt you do 2.6.30? :P06:15
Luke-JrMacer: no, omap-sources06:15
Luke-Jrzakkm: N8x0 support was stripped out for 2.6.30 final06:15
zakkmthat sucks06:15
Macerso what do you have to do? emerge omap-suorces06:15
Macerand build the module06:15
Maceror something?06:15
Luke-JrMacer: no, it's not simple06:15
Luke-Jryou'd need to make the ebuilds06:15
zakkmwait i thought 2.6.30 final supposedly added n8x0 support?06:15
Luke-JrI didn't06:15
zakkmnot remove it06:15
zakkmwhy would they remove it?06:15
Luke-Jrzakkm: it added some N8x0 drivers in mainline06:15
Macerthat sucks06:15
Luke-JrLinux-OMAP stripped everything that *didn't* get merged to mainline06:16
Luke-Jrlike keyboard06:16
zakkmso all is good?06:16
zakkmi might be confused06:16
Luke-Jrzakkm: mainline has wifi, bluetooth, sound, and stuff06:16
Macer>>> Emerging (7 of 120) app-admin/eselect-opengl-1.0.6-r106:16
Luke-Jrbut not keyboard or platform06:16
infobotLuke-Jr meant: but not keyboard or board06:16
MacerLuke-Jr: any plans on making an ebuild for it?06:17
Macerfor sound?06:17
Luke-Jralso, Nokia's crappy proprietary GPS driver requires a bug that was fixed in 2.6.2706:17
Luke-JrMacer: no, probably will wait for vanilla-sources to work06:17
Maceroh. ok.06:17
Macerhow difficult is it to build?06:17
Luke-Jrfor me? trivial06:18
Macerany instructions on how to do it anywhere?06:18
Luke-Jrfor you? I'm not helping XD06:18
Macerany type of instructions on how to do it anywhere?06:18
Luke-JrIf you git clone Linux-OMAP, I'll send you a binary. ;P06:19
Macergit clone git://
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Luke-Jrhave fun06:21
Luke-Jrand remember that wifi doesn't work :þ06:22
Macerwell. i'd rather have wifi than sound :-P06:22
Macerno way to get both?06:22
Luke-Jrit might06:22
Luke-Jrit was weird06:22
Luke-Jrkismet at least worked06:22
Luke-JrI had trouble listing APs06:22
Luke-JrI don't recall trouble connecting to my WEP AP06:22
Maceri don't need to list APs06:23
Luke-Jrconsider the state of wifi to be as-is :þ06:23
Macerwell. i don't really understand what i have to do with th omap sources yet06:23
Macerlike. build a new kernel or something ?06:23
Luke-Jrno, I just had you download those to cover my legal requirements06:23
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Macerso does the bin just install the 2.6.30 kenel and modules?06:24
Luke-Jrlook for a manual on flasher :þ06:25
Luke-Jruntar the modules to your rootfs, and copy some to initfs as desired06:25
gogolanyone ever install QTablet?06:25
Luke-JrMacer: do NOT flash the kernel, just boot it over USB06:25
Macerso i can use 2.6.30 kernels with 2.6.21 kernel?06:26
Macerok. taht's beyond my scope haha06:27
Maceri'll wait til you guys get it working with an ebuild or something :)06:27
Maceruntil then i'll work on getting the other stuff going on my n81006:27
zakkmgogol: always failed for me.06:28
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gogolfail as in "another window manager already running"06:28
gogolzakm: ^06:28
zakkmso killall -9 hildon desktop && qtablet06:29
gogolnot so easy.  did this yesterday just to get it running, maybe it would help you.
Macerdoes qtablet have a --replace option? :)06:30
zakkmtablet is just a app06:31
zakkmisnt it?06:31
Macerthought it was its own wm06:31
Macermaybe i could be wrong.. never used it06:31
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zakkmreally? i didnt either06:31
gogolit is!06:31
zakkmjust seems like a app to me06:31
gogolno, own wm06:31
zakkmit was so outdated though, the last version06:31
zakkmit didnt go far06:31
zakkmmatchbox-window-manager.. oh dont even have to kill hildon-desktop06:32
gogolthere's a script included that shuts down everything including matchbox-keyboard stuff06:32
zakkmwait dont you have a solution?06:32
zakkmill try it out if you want? actualyl really interested06:33
zakkmhow well would it work on n800?06:33
zakkmdoes hildon-input-method work?06:33
Macerboot it over usb :) that seems odd06:33
gogoli think  it works better on 800 than 810, dev said it was initially made for 800 and then he wrote in stuff for 81006:33
Macerwhat do i do? boot it over usb and never turn the device off ever?06:33
zakkmgogol: oh that is sickk :D06:34
zakkmmay i try , will you help? :D06:34
zakkmahhhh i want a n810! :D06:34
gogoli'll try to.  you have to ssh to start it up though06:34
Macermaybe it is because i don't undrestand the concept of how the n810 boots06:34
zakkmMacer: it uses bootmenu :)06:34
gogolim just curious because the dev just emailed me saying he wants someone to take over the project.  i thought maybe one of you programmer types that like QT would be interested06:35
zakkmoh wow06:35
zakkmi never learned how to use sdk, but it sounds worth it06:35
zakkmwilling to try :)06:36
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zakkmim not perfect enough to be best choice, but i gotta say ill dedicate myself and tech savvy enough06:36
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Luke-JrLV enV Touch looks sweet if I can get Linux on it06:37
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Macertouch books look sweet too06:37
zakkmLuke-Jr: looks ugly :P06:37
Luke-JrMacer: but unusably huge06:37
zakkmhow much is the touchbook?06:37
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zakkmwant one for uni in about 12 months from now :P06:38
MacerLuke-Jr: i was joking. touch books have quickly become the new pandor vaporware06:38
gogolsomebody mentioned using qtablet for mer.06:38
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zakkmwhats wrong with touchbook?06:38
zakkmgogol: its in repository, but it wont install06:38
Macerzakkm: nobody has received one06:38
zakkmleaving no message behind06:38
Macerand they announced shipping started 3 weeks ago06:38
zakkmMacer: 10+ hour battery, omap3 chip, touchscreen06:39
zakkmahhh :P06:39
Macerzakkm: it's vaporware06:39
zakkmit seems so nice06:39
Macerina  month we will hear that always innovating has gone under :)06:39
Maceri know06:39
Macerso does the openpandora06:39
Macerwas supposed to be released ayear ago06:39
Maceri'm hoping a real company steps up06:39
Macerand releses something good based on arm that isn't a phone or tablet06:40
gogolprobably need to be sd booting as it takes up a lot of space.06:40
Macermaybe a 9 or 10" netbook06:40
zakkmgogol: why no menu option?06:40
gogollol, you say you want to be lead dev for this?06:41
zakkmhells yeah ! :P06:41
zakkmwould need time to learn sdk go through source code and such of course06:41
zakkmbut yeahh im totally interested06:41
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zakkmfirst i wanna get this going on my tablet, i saw youtube vid ages ago and im like omg i wanna use it, but i havent been able to get it going , it was awhile back too06:42
Macerchecking whether we are cross compiling... no06:43
gogolwellll.. once you get scratchbox could try building it following these instructions...
gogolif you get that far i'd be seriously impressed.06:43
zakkmim a gentoo user :P i like compiling/ messing with source06:44
zakkm5 year gentoo user, okayy so 6 months ago i totally 100% switched to mac06:44
zakkmbut thats cause i ran out of things to try :P i wait for new stuff :P06:44
gogolso you code? or just fool around like me.06:44
Macerzakkm: lol.. make qtablet for gentoo on the tablet :)06:44
Luke-Jrcan I grab this and tether N810 to Boost Mobile with it?06:45
zakkmi can code. dont work on projects though from scratch06:45
zakkmlike i will improve this, add menu and all find little tweaks , less lines of code06:45
zakkmLuke-Jr: which way tethering?06:45
zakkmusing nokia's wifi on blackberry... or using blackberries 3g on nokia?06:46
zakkmand thats a expensive price for a blackberry 725006:46
zakkmthats the winning bid06:46
zakkmnot final06:46
zakkmplus shipping.06:46
zerojayPCLuke-Jr: Yes, someone said you could, but it's super slow.06:46
Luke-JrI want cell internet for my N81006:46
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Luke-Jrphone would just sit in the car or smth06:46
zakkmoh of course06:46
zakkm3g is expensive though06:46
zerojayPCLess than dialup speeds.06:46
gogolwell between the links ive given you, you should be able to get it running.  adding a menu item wouldn't be too hard an accomplishment either.  just have to figure out how to kill the window manager running the script telling it to start another wm06:46
Luke-Jrzakkm: Boost Mobile?06:46
Luke-JrzerojayPC: Boost Mobile is slower than dialup anyhow06:47
zakkmoh dont know boost mobile06:47
Luke-JrBoost Mobile is $1/day :þ06:47
zerojayPCSomeone on tmo was selling their boost stuff and talked about it. You might want to check that out on Buy/Sell.06:47
Luke-JrzerojayPC: plus, 5 GB limits is slower than dialup06:47
gogolLuke-Jr: 25/mo for unlimited edge through t-mo06:47
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gogolthats about 20K/sec06:48
Luke-Jrgogol: with nothing else?06:48
zakkmohhh you guys are in US06:48
Macerwow that phone is ugly as sin :)06:48
zakkmim in toronto, canada... tis why :)06:48
Luke-JrMacer: like I said, I just want something cheap I can ignore06:48
gogolyou'd have to get a plan im sure, dont think they do prepay that way06:48
zakkmgogol: yeahhh so whos the developer, i should talk to person06:48
Luke-Jrgogol: I don't want phone service really06:48
zakkmLuke-Jr: doesnt matter, in most cases06:48
zerojayPCLuke-Jr: Where do you get an idea like that?06:48
Luke-JrzerojayPC: calculator06:49
zerojayPCHaving a 5GB limit is nothing like being on dialup at all.06:49
zakkmLuke-Jr: go retro -
Luke-Jroverall, it is06:49
zerojayPCNo, it's really really not. :)06:49
zakkmdialup cant goto 5gb in a month can it?06:49
zerojayPCA calculator can't tell you how much nicer the user experience is.06:49
zakkm4kbs a day.. doesnt add up to 5gb a month? :P06:50
Luke-Jr5 GB limit = 16.18 Kbit/sec06:50
gogolLuke-Jr: dont know if you can have only data06:50
gogolzakkm: his email is on his website.06:50
zerojayPCI have a data only plan.06:50
zerojayPCOn average, I use about 1.5GB a month.06:50
Luke-Jrzakkm: dialup can hit 17.30 GB06:50
zerojayPCI don't do any sort of streaming audio.06:50
zakkmfriend has unlimited 3g for $30 a month :)06:50
zerojayPCAnd believe me... FAR more useful than dialup.06:50
zakkm(toronto canada )06:50
zakkmhe has iphone06:50
zerojayPCI'm in Canada, which is the 3rd world of cell.06:50
zakkmim in canada too06:51
zakkmwhere are you? :P06:51
zerojayPCQuebec, for the moment.06:51
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zakkmi been to montreal in march :P06:51
zakkm18th bday, know what that means :P06:51
zerojayPCI lived there most of my life.06:51
zerojayPCYeah, go to party town. Heh.06:51
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zakkmlegal age is 19 here in ontario06:51
gogolchanged my alert sound, will someone say my name so i can test it please06:51
zerojayPCIronically, I almost never did that while living there.06:51
Luke-Jrgogol ftl06:52
zakkmgogol :D06:52
gogolfor the.. ?06:52
zakkmloser :P06:52
zakkmw = win l = loser?06:52
Luke-Jrgogol: T-Mobile doesn't have any plans that allow tethering period06:53
zerojayPCI'm on Rogers in Canada and I didn't even think to ask if tethering would cost me extra.06:53
zakkmzerojayPC: it doesnt, or didnt for my friend06:54
zerojayPCI use an N95 with a data plan exclusively just to have my N810 mobile.06:54
Maceryou just assume yes huh?06:54
gogolive been bt tethering with gadget and with laptop on 25/mo plan for over a month.  works great.06:54
zakkmtethering itself doesnt, but your still using ___GB... which costs06:54
Maceri miss my n9506:54
zerojayPCThey told me that as long as I didn't get a voice account, they wouldn't charge me extra for tethering.06:54
zerojayPCBattery life's terrible on the N95.06:54
zakkmzerojayPC: get the 5gb a month - $30 ... :P rogers06:54
zakkmnononoo 6gb?06:54
gogolbluetooth on my phone kills it in like 3 hours.06:54
zerojayPCYeah, that's for iPhone.06:55
zerojayPCOr some promotional thing.06:55
zakkmit doesnt matter06:55
zerojayPCWasn't available.06:55
zerojayPCSure it does!06:55
zakkm??? it works till sept 1506:55
zakkmfriend tethers to laptop just fine06:55
zakkmhe did over phone06:55
zerojayPCYou can't go up to Rogers and say "hey, two years ago, you offered 5GB for $4... I want it!"06:55
zakkmthey still offering it06:55
zakkmtill september 15th06:55
zerojayPCNot to me.06:55
zakkmfriend had 2 year contract06:56
zerojayPCI'll look into it then.06:56
zakkmhe just added the data plan06:56
gogolno t-mobile in canada?06:56
zakkmi want the sidekick :D06:56
zakkmzerojayPC: use koodo myself :P06:56
zakkmdont kno if its in quebec06:56
zakkmunlimited worldwide msging for $5 a month :P06:56
zakkmi did 300 international txts last month :P06:57
zakkmlook into it though 6gb - $30 isnt bad?06:57
zerojayPCYour friend has an I phone, right?06:57
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zakkmtethers to netbook06:58
zakkmjust fine06:58
zakkmhe also got 2 months unlimited :P06:58
MacerzerojayPC: but the vids and pics are so pretty :)06:58
zerojayPCYeah, that plan's just for iPhone, so...06:58
Luke-Jrzakkm: just because it works doesn't mean it's legit06:58
zakkmhow is that possible though?06:58
zakkmnoonon asked -.-06:58
zerojayPCWell, it is.06:58
Macerbut yeah. the n95 had real shitty life06:58
Macer3G would murder its battery06:58
zakkmzerojayPC: he didnt buy iphone off them ? its not iphone plan .. and also he was already in contract06:58
Macerwoo! 10 of 120!06:58
zerojayPCBasically the RX-51 would be my replacement for the N810 and N95 combo.06:58
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zakkmMacer: the quick 10 :P its going to take days .. literaly ;p06:59
zerojayPCzakkm: Everywhere online says it just for iPhone so... dunno.06:59
zakkmand n900 isnt a phone is it?06:59
MacerzerojayPC: will it actually have voice capability?06:59
Macerzakkm: lol. i know06:59
Macerit's going to be a while06:59
zerojayPCPretty sure it will be a phone.06:59
Maceri haven't gotten to any of the X stuff yet06:59
zakkmi thought it just has hspa support, so it can have its own 3g plan06:59
zerojayPCAll the FCC documents refer to it being a phone.06:59
zakkmbut not do voice06:59
zakkmMacer: not even that ... libc, glibc, and such07:00
zerojayPCI would bet on it being a phone and having voice.07:00
Maceri think they refer to it as a phone because it has an hspda07:00
zakkmits a tablet..07:00
zakkmnot a phone07:00
zerojayPCOh, you have one, huh?07:00
zakkmthe hspda is to be a proper wimax.. which failed07:00
Macerzakkm: i already finished glibc07:00
eplawlesswhy would they add 3G but not do voice?07:00
Macerit actually didn't take nearly as long as i thought it would07:00
zakkmbecause its not a phone ? :P and its there way of doing wimax / portability everywhere07:00
Macerlike 45misn-1hr07:00
zerojayPCIt's almost certain to be a phone.07:00
zerojayPCzakkm: How is it not a phone?07:01
zakkmwimax failed, cause it didnt have wimax in most places07:01
zakkm3g wouldnt .. hspda w.e07:01
zakkmjust my opinion ;p07:01
zakkmand anyways with that, ppl will make it a phone by apps07:01
zakkmppl already do with dialcentral and sip07:01
zerojayPCThe idea of what a phone is changes constantly.07:01
zakkma phone calls :P07:02
zerojayPCI think Maemo will end up being Nokia's high-end phone OS.07:02
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zerojayPCYes, and it will too.07:02
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zakkmno, Mer is :D07:02
eplawlessIt seems pretty likely that the rx-51 is going to be the tipping point of convergence between MIDs and phones07:02
zerojayPCYeah, I think so.07:02
Macerzakkm: lol07:02
Macerno. mer is the poor man's replacement :)07:02
zerojayPCI believe the entire Maemo product line and OS cycles were just an open beta for getting to this point.07:02
zakkmfinal mer, not mer now :P07:02
* Macer hides07:02
gogolzakkm: gets to hacking07:02
eplawlessNow they just need to release the goddamn thing already07:02
zakkmgogol: im updating openssh server07:03
zakkmrelease date been set for awhile07:03
gogolgo make QTablet better than mer07:03
Macereplawless: there seems to be a long holdoff on releasing newer hardware07:03
Macertrying to get their older hardware stock down or something?07:03
zakkmmer is a distro, qtablet is a window manager? :P07:03
zakkm:O that would be sickk07:03
zerojayPCzakkm: Uh.. you might be living on another planet than I am... what's this release date?07:03
zakkmmer + qtablet07:03
zakkmit was always Q4 2009 ? wasnt it?07:03
Macer"there's an app for that"07:03
zerojayPCThere's no release date.07:03
zerojayPCThere's not even been a product announcement yet.07:04
Macerwonder if there is a build for qtablet in gentoo07:04
zakkmMacer: ill make one :)07:04
Macerzakkm: haha07:04
Maceri thought you said you weren't going to run it07:04
eplawlessThey've mentioned maemo 5 and the next gen device, specs etc07:04
Macerjust chroot it for a while until you get x going ;)07:04
gogolthe interface of qtablet is pretty epic i gotta say. if i were smart i'd fix it myself.07:04
Macermake an ncurses soft keyboard for console then07:04
zakkmi said i was going to do gentoo myself agess ago , everyone told me it was stupid and not worth it ...  iwonder how that went :P07:04
Macermake it run automatically when logging into a console07:04
zakkmand also i ownt do it on n800, i got you for testing :P07:05
Macerzakkm: it seems to be going well07:05
zakkmits not that much different07:05
* zerojayPC installs Maemo 5 SDK...07:05
zakkmgogol: im at #1 :P07:05
MacerLinux restless 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Tue Oct 14 11:25:25 EEST 2008 armv6l ARMv6-compatible processor rev 2 (v6l) Nokia RX-44 GNU/Linux07:05
zakkmomg 60mb qt libraries07:05
zakkmthats going to take awhile07:05
zakkmarm 6 ? i thought tablet was arm9 ?07:05
Macerisn't a9 like07:06
zakkmi cant make them direct links to wget07:06
Macerquad core arm?07:06
zakkmis it?07:07
gogolscp is your friend07:07
Maceror dual core or something07:07
zakkmi dont have scb installed on my mac07:07
zakkmi dont think so07:07
zakkmoh snap i do :D07:07
zakkmah w.e ill use tear to download07:07
zakkmgogol: oh just to help with coding in future, i got a nice new 2048x1152 23.3" widescreen monitor07:08
Maceri think my  n810 crashed or something07:09
zakkmwooh :P07:09
Maceri dunno07:09
zakkmconsole goes black?07:09
zakkmor blank07:09
Luke-Jrtoo much swap use07:09
Macercan't ssh into it anymroe07:09
zakkmafter idle?07:09
Macerwow really?07:09
Luke-JrI told you it was slow07:09
Macerbut like.. the ssh session went dead07:10
zakkmyou guys mount tmpfs into ram?07:10
* Macer goes downstairs to get it07:10
zakkmnot enough ram?07:10
zakkmhow much does the tablet have btw07:10
zakkmis it 128 or 25607:10
zakkmoh wow07:11
zakkmgogol: downloading qt4.507:11
zakkmgogol: is this the most uptodate?07:11
gogolthe qt libs on his page I think are specific to his software. prb not all of qt07:12
zakkmi mean the qtablet version07:12
zakkmfrom "wiki" page07:12
gogolthere were updates in march i saw on svn07:12
gogolbut i wasnt about to build from source on the tablet07:13
* gogol not that smart07:13
Luke-Jrgogol: why not07:13
Macerkicked back in :)07:13
Luke-JrMacer: what's it building?07:13
zakkmoh okay :)07:13
zakkmgogol: last update was svn?07:13
gogoli suppose i  could try... i'd need some better drugs07:13
zakkmlast update was march?07:13
Maceri dunno but it's up to 104MB of swap07:13
zakkmjust curious what stage its at, what i can build upon it07:14
Macerbut git-index-pack is what is topping it out07:14
Maceri'm still downloading that src to it07:14
Macerthe omap-sources07:14
gogolhave you seriously not even read the webpage zakkm ?07:14
Macerbecause it seems to be taking that long ? :)07:14
zakkmwhich webpage? im reading
gogolim sorry git, not svn07:15
Luke-JrI meant to your file server XD07:15
Macer /dev/mmcblk1p1         14G  2.3G   11G  17% /07:15
Maceroh wtf :-P07:15
zakkmits mostly tmp :P07:15
zakkmportage keeps old packages by default07:15
zakkmand portage tree is huge on its own07:15
Luke-Jrzakkm: uh, no07:16
zakkmohh i didnt read that07:16
Luke-Jrby default Portage deletes everything07:16
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zakkmreally?  i swore i was able to reinstall on desktop gentoo07:16
zakkmand it didnt redownload07:16
Luke-Jrit keeps the downloads, but not the big stuff07:16
zakkmyeah well thats what i mean :P07:17
Macermy n810 just restart07:17
Maceri was ctrl-C the git07:17
zakkmnicee :P07:17
Macerand it reboot on its own07:17
Luke-Jrhe sez woof07:18
zakkmah man07:18
zakkmno space on device for qt - 4.507:18
zakkmi really wish i didnt screw up my clone to sd :(07:18
zerojayPCThe Rogers 6GB for $30 is only available for iPhone, Blackberry and Android. :/07:19
gogolive fortunately got two clones, one on internal sd, one on external07:19
gogolfor times like when epage's dialcentral borks alarmd completely in the arse07:19
zakkmzerojayPC: what do you have?07:19
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zerojayPCA flex plan.07:20
zakkmi messed with maemo -services and it wouldnt boot :p07:20
* gogol clones external to internal, again...07:21
gogolat least i only lost a day of fooling around07:21
zakkmi gotta do that if qt wont install by space07:21
Luke-JrMacer: be sure to fsck07:21
Maceremerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "sys-apps/n810-keymap".07:21
Luke-Jrlayman -S07:22
zakkmlayman --sync  .. dont be lazy :D07:22
Macerwhat made it reboot in its own?07:22
zakkmcpu / ram goes too high on tablet, it reboots07:22
Luke-Jrthe watchdog barked07:22
Macerwtf :)07:22
zakkmgood thing :P07:22
Macerwhat kind of crap is that07:23
zakkmapp freezes.. you dont have to pull battery07:23
gogoldont install dialcentral 1.0.4-2 anyone. seriously  bad news.07:23
Luke-Jrzakkm: actually, when it REALLY crashes, it never reboots :/07:23
zakkmnot crashes07:23
zakkmi mean like app freezes07:23
zakkmcpu loops or something07:23
Macerdo i have to do anything special for the keymaps?07:23
Luke-JrMacer: enable them07:23
Luke-Jr/etc/conf.d/keymaps I think?07:23
Luke-Jror rc07:24
Luke-Jradd n810 (or nIQP) to extras07:24
zakkmdanggg not enough space07:24
zakkmtime to clone :D07:24
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gogolconsole-tools ftw!07:25
zakkmi kno i got it07:25
zakkmtransferring to removable :P ( the 2 files )07:25
gogolyou know what i'd offer a bounty for? a port of fluxbox.07:28
zakkmfluxbox on tablet?07:28
zakkmthere is isnt there07:28
zakkmand its not hard? it works in mer ?07:28
zakkmmaemo, i think penguinbait did it , worked awful tho07:29
zakkmmer + fluxbox would be best though07:29
zakkmjust apt-get it, and then change startup to fluxbox07:29
zakkmgogol: for mer fluxbox07:30
gogolnot in mer07:30
gogolwant something that bt works in07:30
zakkminstall, add to startup , make it start, and reboot07:30
gogolnot so easy in matchbox07:30
zakkmpenguinbait did xfce and windowmaker and kde3 , im pretty sureee he did fluxbox07:30
zakkmeasy debian also has lxde07:31
MacerLuke-Jr: add n810 to extras?07:32
Luke-Jrsome rc/keymap config file07:32
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zakkm-.- pb wont start in root07:32
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MacerLuke-Jr: awesome thanks07:33
Macerdid you map tab to anything?07:34
Macerhell yeah. that's awesome :)07:34
Macerwell. that makes things 10x easier now heh07:35
Luke-Jrthe left/right on the top edge are PgUp/PgDn07:35
Luke-Jrthat makes things nicer too07:35
Macerhell yeah07:36
Macerthis is great07:36
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zakkmomg damn nokia07:38
zerojayPCHeh... Nokia's mistake on a phone caused three people's deaths.07:38
Macermistake on a phone?07:39
zerojayPCApparently, their phones sold in Turkey don't fully support the proper encoding needed over there.07:39
Macerdidnt allow for calling emergency numbers?07:39
Maceroh who cares. it's only Turkey :)07:39
zerojayPCThere's one character, I think a y with an accent over it... it's just not there.07:39
zerojayPCAnd three people died over it.07:39
Macerthen they should have bought different phones07:39
zerojayPCStory goes that a man and his wife were divorcing and were splitting up their assets and doing it over SMS.07:40
zakkmNokia-N800-43-7:~# pbeasy07:40
zakkmroot is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.07:40
zakkmlol wth07:40
Macerwhy would root be in sudoers? :)07:40
zakkmwhy did it mention it07:40
zakkmand wont let me run app07:40
zerojayPCWife said she wanted to take a dresser... dude wanted to say "fine, take it"07:40
zerojayPCBut the accent was missing... and that somehow turned the sentence into "fine, slut" or something like that.07:41
zerojayPCDon't ask me how.07:41
zerojayPCWife shows her father, who gets pissed thinking his family is being insulted.07:41
zerojayPCThey invite the dude over for dinner.07:41
Macercan't blame nokia for people being idiots07:41
* Luke-Jr makes a mental note that calling zerojayPC a slut is a death sentence07:41
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zerojayPCShe pulls a knife on him and stabs him. He pulls out a gun after being stabbed and shoots them both.07:42
Macerdid he try to explain the nokia phone problem to the family while they were gutting him?07:42
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Maceronly in Turkey!07:42
zerojayPCSo the next time someone says "encoding isn't important"... tell them to STFU. :)07:42
zakkmomg :(07:42
Luke-Jrlet's do that intentionally07:42
zerojayPCLuke-Jr: Shit, I wish I could be called a slut. lol07:42
zakkmstupid pbeasy reboots my tablet07:42
zerojayPCLet me find the original story.07:43
zakkmpulls a gun out?07:43
zakkmcarried a gun around?07:43
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zerojayPCHe apparently thought it was strange that he was being invited so he brought the gun for his own protection.07:44
Luke-Jrzakkm: of course?07:44
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zakkmwhy is it when i change control panel options in maemo07:44
Luke-Jrwho walks around unarmed?07:44
zakkmit wont save when i press okay07:44
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Luke-Jrcuz Maemo sucks07:45
zerojayPCI know I sure as fuck wouldn't be walking around unarmed in Turkey. lol07:45
zakkmanyone know how to get passcode from nokia07:46
zakkmbought it used and he didnt tell me07:46
zakkmthe lock code07:47
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Luke-Jrzakkm: generally, they won't tell anyone ever07:47
Luke-Jryou need to find a vulnerable tech and exercise careful social engineering07:47
zerojayPCThe default isn't working?07:47
zakkmwhats default?07:48
Luke-Jrthere is no default -.-07:48
zakkmi think ive tried07:48
zakkmi just want to "clear device"07:48
Luke-Jrwait, Nokia07:48
Luke-JrI'm thinking Sprint for some reason07:48
zakkmoh wow07:51
zakkmtheres a getlockcode script :D07:51
zakkmit workd :D07:51
zakkmNokia-N800-43-7:/dev# ./getlockcode07:51
zakkmThe lock code is 0840007:51
zakkmwow ;D07:51
zakkmmorning Stskeeps07:55
zakkmdid you know about the getlockcode script?07:56
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zakkmah i been trying to figure it out for ages :P07:57
zakkmjust discovered it07:58
zerojayPCI've installed the Maemo 5 SDK, but for some reason the script doesn't seem to exist. Help?08:03
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zakkmzerojayPC: sorry, dont know.08:11
zakkmzerojayPC: should help -
zerojayPCI got past it.. but now it's asking me to run apt-get update and suddenly it's saying it can't resolve
zerojayPCTotal bs.08:16
zerojayPCYeah, I'm stuck right before nokia-binaries install.08:16
Maceryou sound like Stskeeps :)08:16
zerojayPCWell, when I have no problem resolving the site using wget.. it's BS.08:17
StskeepszerojayPC: edit /etc/resolv.conf inside sb and read the sdk faq on wiki08:17
Stskeepscommon problem08:18
Macerit's a chroot?08:18
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Stskeepsalso /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf08:18
Maceroh.. scratchbox08:18
Stskeeps-shortof- a chroot08:18
Maceri want this stuff to finish building already so i can try out matchbox08:19
Macerman if it works like a "laptop08:19
Macer" tha twould be great08:19
zerojayPCStskeeps: I don't see an SDK FAQ.08:22
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MacerLuke-Jr gave me his keymap stuff :)08:22
Macerso now i can use the console on the n810.. it's great08:22
Macerlike.. using the device itself08:22
Macerit's great08:22
Macer /dev/mmcblk1p1         14G  2.3G   11G  18% /08:23
StskeepszerojayPC: hang on08:23
zakkmgogol: still here?08:23
Macerthis is quickly getting bloated haha.. but then again i'm sure i have portage archives all over the place08:23
zakkmMacer: dont forget portage tree :D08:23
Macerzakkm: the tree isn't that bad08:26
Maceri just have to clean out the archives08:26
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zakkmmanpages and stuff to?08:27
zakkmis -nodoc -noman used?08:27
Macernaw. i want the man pages08:27
Macerthey're not that large either08:27
zakkmStskeeps: know how to kill matchbox-window-manager without it wanting to reopen?08:27
Macernor are the docs08:27
Macerthey're all compressed anyways08:27
Maceri have 14G to play with so i should be more than ok to install what i want08:28
zakkmoh you will08:28
zerojayPCStskeeps: Didn't help, thanks anyways.08:29
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StskeepszerojayPC: hmm, that's weird08:29
Maceractually. i'll put nodoc there08:29
Maceri never use the docs anyways :)08:29
Macerbetter to just read those online somehwere08:30
Stskeepsverify /etc/resolv.conf inside target too08:30
zerojayPCWorks fine outside of scratchbox.08:30
zerojayPCEven inside of scratchbox.08:30
zerojayPCExcept that URL.08:30
zerojayPCAnd it's not down.08:30
zakkmqtablet is nice :D08:30
Macerzakkm: is it?08:30
Macerwhat are you running it in?08:31
zakkmyeah bit buggy though, im not using newest svn though i think08:31
Macerwow really?08:31
zakkmyeah pdf reader doesnt work08:31
Maceri only saw videos of it08:31
Macerpfft. pdf reader :-P08:31
Maceruse a browser or something useful08:31
zakkmim testing it out for first time08:31
Macerwas it tspre?08:32
zerojayPCApparently /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is not the same as the actual /etc/resolv.conf when inside of scratchbox.08:32
zerojayPCDon't know how or why.08:32
Maceryou didn't link it did you?08:33
zakkmahh wish i had tear :(08:33
Macerzakkm: install it08:33
zakkmi will08:33
zerojayPCI'm not supposed to from what I can tell.08:33
Macertear is pretty nice08:33
Maceri figured you're not supposed to08:33
Macerwell. let me get back go building this stuff08:34
Macerand leave the thing alone.. at least now i can do stuff in the console08:34
zakkmanyone here use bundyo's mplayer 1.0rc2?08:34
Maceron the device :)08:34
zakkmyour not a console junkie?08:35
zakkmyou can run mplayer in console ? :P08:35
zakkmlinks -g08:35
Macercan't you run mplayer with fb?08:36
Macerin a console?08:36
Maceri remember being able to do that08:36
Maceron a pc at least08:36
zakkmyeah thats what im saying, why do you need X :P08:37
Macerbecause i want to see what gentoo can do on the device08:38
Macerevidently Luke-Jr is running kde4 on it :)08:38
Macerthat'd be kind of neat to try out08:38
zakkmlol laggy! :P08:39
Macernot to mention that i want to use some sort of office app on the device08:39
Macerwith cups support08:39
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Maceri might actually use fluxbox or matchbox08:39
Macerdepending on which works better on the tablet08:39
zakkmfluxbox requires right click :P08:40
Macerright click emulation08:40
Macerand i'm sure that you can change that08:40
Macerit only needs it for its main menu08:40
zakkmlol most important08:40
zakkmyour better off with e17 one08:40
zakkmthat really cool one for tablets :P08:40
Stskeepsick enlightenment08:41
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zakkmtear crashed qtablet08:43
zakkmStskeeps: is there a way not to have systemui running?08:44
zakkmwhat does it do exactly?08:44
Stskeepsyou'd want it there08:44
Stskeepsit's the powerbutton and charging screen08:44
zakkmdecided to takeover qtablet project , and it always wants to run and shows up in like "systray"08:45
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inzStskeeps, zakkm, and alarm ui and touch screen and keys lock and device lock09:05
zakkminz: ?09:06
zakkmthats what systemui controls? all that?09:06
inzzakkm, yup09:06
zakkmoh snap shouldnt close that then09:06
inzls /usr/lib/systemui/09:06
zakkmnono i trust you :P09:06
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JaffaMorning, all09:30
zakkmJaffa: morning!09:30
AOD_tomaterrits 1:00 am09:30
Jaffa07:27 here :-p09:31
JaffaAnd leaching on the train's free wifi (for first class)09:31
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zakkmits 2;34am here :P09:34
zakkmany of you guys use qtablet?09:35
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RST38hqwerty: Thanks for the vertical placement patch =)10:10
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RST38hqwerty: Should have attached damn screenshot too, just to demonstrate that it has been done before =)10:19
* RST38h got acquainted with wonderful european Vodafone service. Makes me wish for the MTS takeover of these guys10:20
qwerty12_N810Would be a waste of an attachment :p10:20
RST38h12 euros per megabyte of GPRS data10:20
qwerty12_N810Vodafone? Bleugh.10:21
RST38hUnless you pay e3.50 a month, in which case it apparently becomes free10:21
RST38hBUT, notice, they do not appear to let SSH traffic through, and I guess IRC is also a no-go10:21
johnxt-mobile USA $10/month for unlimited data (as long as you have dumb-phone)10:21
RST38hjohnx: Yes, but I am in Greece, not in the USA :)10:21
zakkmdumb phone?10:22
johnxa non-smartphone :)10:22
RST38hStill can't make the tablet connect to Vodafone, too. It seems to connect, but all HTTP connections time out10:22
RST38hjohnx: How do bastards know what phone you have?10:22
johnxIMEI number IIRC10:22
johnxor something like that10:23
johnxG1 guys keep getting caught :)10:23
RST38hMy guess they do not :)10:23
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zakkmyou can change imei number cant you?10:23
RST38hYuo can but it is 1) usually illegal and 2) pointless10:23
qwerty12_N810Illegal and SE phones, at least, have lots of ways to stop this10:24
zakkmwhy would it be illegal?10:24
RST38hBecause big cheeses in the government said so10:24
zakkmim pretty sure my local bootleg mall does it for like $20 or somethin10:24
RST38hOh, same here10:24
RST38hBut it is illegal in many countries10:25
zakkmim in toronto,canada10:25
* RST38h wonders if he should shit all over "encourage iPhone developers to develop for Maemo" thread10:25
johnxnah, let them have their dream :)10:26
johnxbut really, an easier to setup dev env would probably go a looong way10:26
zakkmiphone app making is for money ;p10:26
RST38hzakkm: Probably illegal, given Canadian cryptosocialist nature =)10:26
johnxthat and qt10:26
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Of course! Seeing fecal matter on TMO is a good way to start the day10:26
RST38hqwerty: I honestly tried yesterday but Texrat didn't bite10:27
qwerty12_N810Oh yeah, I saw :D10:27
RST38hjohnx: They are all missing an important ingredient in that thread10:27
johnxRST38h, yes, reality10:27
RST38hjohnx: Yuo can SELL iPhone apps. Ok, it is more of a lottery nowadays but you can at least play the lottery10:28
johnxbut you're not going to change their mind, probably no matter what you say10:28
* timeless_mbp ponders10:28
zakkmnot at all10:28
RST38hjohnx: Can't sell Maemo apps right now10:28
zakkmwhat you on about :P10:28
Luke-Jrof course you can10:28
zakkmisnt bountys starting? :P10:28
Luke-Jror rather, you can try to10:28
RST38hjohnx: So, it is like that joke - Q: Why modern pop music is so shitty? A: Because you are listening to shitty music10:28
johnxRST38h, preaching to the choir here...10:29
Luke-Jrprobably nobody would buy10:29
zakkmalso ipod making is easier :P10:29
johnxbut even improving 2 out of 3 problems would go a long way10:29
johnxin the height of the zaurus days it seemed like there were more apps for that platform than maemo10:30
RST38hjohnx: Also I strongly believe that the only realistic way to get apps on Maemo is to 1) Implement damn MIDP environment and 2) Possibly implement iPhone OS compat layer (althoug Nokia will never do it on their own010:30
RST38hjohnx: Still, if somebody in the community decides to implement an iPhone compat layer, I am sure many in Nokia will silently applaud10:30
zakkmiphone compat layer..10:30
johnxRST38h, huh. I was thinking about the same thing: enhancing GNUstep to add iphone stuffs10:30
zakkmiphone uses opengl for everytrhing10:31
johnxbut really, "easy to setup dev env + QT" would do so much10:31
RST38hjohnx: Except that Gnustep is probably too heavy...10:31
RST38hzakkm: And?10:31
zakkmwe cant?10:31
johnxRST38h, nah10:31
qwerty12_N810RST38h: 1) Agreed. If Nokia do it for their Symbian phones, then it should be done by them for Maemo. 2) I'm not sure about...10:31
RST38hI mean, why try competing with iPhone (a losing battle anyway)10:31
RST38hYou have got scores of companies writing MIDP apps, so start with MIDP10:31
zakkmqtablet :)10:32
RST38hOk, time out, back to the beach.10:32
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* timeless_mbp shrugs10:46
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johnxhey fureddo10:49
johnxmake any progress?10:49
fureddoThe application is in extras-devel10:49
fureddoDo you have time to test it?10:49
fureddoI don't know if it works really.10:49
johnxwas just about to ask if anyone had yet :)10:49
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fureddoIt should but I cannot be sure.10:50
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fureddoI have no device after all to really test it.10:50
JaffaRST38h: I've contributed to that thread so an "they're all missing" is a) insulting and b) trolling in a back-channel.10:50
fureddoIf you have time, you can try though.  It's in the diablo repo.10:50
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fureddoI'm really glad that you helped me, BTW.10:52
johnxI'm glad that you got it in place10:52
johnxI think a lot of people give up on getting things in extras10:52
fureddoI'm not surprised.10:52
johnxinstalling now :)10:52
fureddoIt's quite a task, actually.  A real puzzle.10:53
fureddoYou must be very motivated to do it.10:53
fureddoWhich device are you using?10:54
johnxhave an n800, a borrowed n810, a zaurus c1000 and a zuaurs 550010:54
johnxinstalling on the n80010:54
fureddoWow!  You're a maniac :-)10:54
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johnxheh, guess I got hooked O_o;10:55
fureddoI hope it works otherwise it will be very hard to debug it without a device.10:56
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johnxinstalls fine, looks rather nice10:57
johnxthe font is a little small, but I assume you needed to do that to make it fit10:57
fureddoYou can change the font in the Preferences.10:57
fureddoI think you mentioned that you wanted to use it to learn Japanese.  So the best way is to download and import a Japanases glossary to really test it.10:59
johnxso, where do I get glossaries?10:59
fureddoYou can find some on the website: http://tomotko.sourceforge.net10:59
fureddoIn the glossaries section.10:59
fureddoYou have to import the zip file as is.11:00
fureddoDon't decompress it.11:00
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fureddoIf you could send me some screenshots, that would be very appreciated.  You can find my contact info into the About dialog of the application.11:00
fureddoWhen you have time of course.  There is no hurry.11:01
johnxI'll send you a screenshot of the main screen for now at least11:01
johnxthat way it'll look nice when it gets bumped to extras :)11:02
fureddoDon't forget to tell me if the glossary importation works well or not.11:08
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fureddoIs there no keyboard on the N800?11:25
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fureddoI mean, a real one...11:26
johnxnope, all onscreen11:27
johnxthere's one that takes up half the screen and squishes the window and one that is fullscreen and "takes over"11:27
fureddoIf you can, include some screenshots of that too.  I'm curious to know how it looks like.11:28
johnxnot so great, but n800 owners are used to that11:28
fureddoYeah, you have to, I guess.11:29
fureddoI thought they come with a sliding keyboard.  It's probably a different model.11:29
johnxno good way around it I think except for making all the windows have the possibility of having a scrollbar when they get shrunk too much to fit their contents11:29
johnxn810 has the sliding keyboard11:29
fureddoYes, I can see it now.  That's looks good.11:30
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fureddoDo you think that the application is ready enough to be promotable to extra?11:31
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Macerpkg 38 of 110 heh11:32
Macerat least i got kde4.3 going on the debian box11:32
johnxI haven't tested the actual quizzes at all yet, but I don't really see anything wrong with it11:33
johnxand the interface is quite nice11:33
johnxso, is this really the same code that runs in qtopia on the zaurus?11:33
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fureddoYeah.  No modifications.11:34
johnxjust wow11:34
fureddoActually, yes, there are some modifications.11:34
johnxI have some packages that I was missing to "port"11:34
fureddoThere are 2 versions: zaurus and qt4.11:34
johnxaaah, I see11:34
fureddoThe zaurus version is qt2.3.211:34
Maceri guess konqueror doesn't really support much still huh?11:34
johnxyeah, I thought there were some non-trivial changes between qt2 and qt411:35
fureddoI decided to port it on windows, linux and macos so I thought that porting it to qt4 would be more appropriate.11:35
fureddoIt was not that hard but it still requires some time to do.11:36
johnxdoes the qt4 interface still cope with being resized to 640x440 or so?11:36
fureddoYes.  You can see some screenshots on the website.11:36
johnxcool, anyways, I probably have to catch some sleep so I'll say good night for now11:40
johnxglad you got it working11:40
Stskeepsnini johnx11:40
fureddoBye!  Oyasumi nasai11:40
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fureddoSomeone just reported that it works on its N810.11:43
fureddoThat's good news.11:43
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Macerseriously need to set up nis or something12:00
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Maceradding 1 grp over 3 computers was a pain12:00
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Macerthen adding users to it was even more so12:00
Macerjohnx: tried that once12:00
* johnx goes back to sleep12:00
Macerit was a horror12:00
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Macerit was like a bad horror movie :)12:00
zakkmyou guys are still up?12:04
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fureddoHi zakkm12:05
zakkmjohnx: if it helps, i originally tested fureddo's app with quizzes and such and worked perfectly.12:05
zakkmhey fureddo :)12:05
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zakkmdidnt think you guys would still be up, i left irc on12:07
peremeni have a question: does maemo sdk(diablo) have virtual keyboard inside?12:08
peremenwhen i try to activate virtual keyboard it just displays error message:12:08
zakkmi wouldnt know.12:08
peremenhildon-input-method[20164]: GLIB WARNING ** default - No finger plugin installed12:08
peremengoogle didn't helped me... sad12:08
zakkmit should i would think, otherwise its quite hard to test some apps12:09
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Macerkonqueror still sucks pretty bad12:13
Macertoo bad12:13
Maceri like it12:13
zakkmkde3 or 4?12:14
zakkm3 one is great ;P favourite browser, despite being uber slow12:14
pupnik_"Mal.  Guy killed me with a sword, Mal.  How weird is that?"12:15
perementhen i should file a bug about this :(12:15
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Stskeepsperemen: if it helps you, fremantle sdk already has this bug12:16
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jaemhello folks12:19
Stskeeps'lo jaem12:19
jaemI'm reading the Maemo packaging section of the tutorial at ...12:19
jaemand I'm confused about one line12:19
jaem"debian/[application].link" - This file is needed to make the symbolic link of application desktop file to "etc/others-menu". Maemo desktop file structure is explained in earlier section.12:19
jaemwhat, exactly, is that file?12:19
* jaem hates Debian packages12:20
qwerty12_N810What file? debian/[application].link?12:21
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jaemI understand the purpose12:21
jaemjust not what the contents are supposed to be12:21
qwerty12_N810You make that file. That file is pretty straight forward: <file to symlink> <destination>12:21
jaemjust two fields?12:22
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qwerty12_N810(FYI, I've never had to symlink to /etc/others-menu. Placing a desktop file in /usr/share/applications/hildon/ has been enough for me)12:23
jaemfoo.desktop /usr/share/applications/hildon/foo.desktop12:23
jaemlike that?12:23
jaemit's late12:23
jaemI know what you mean now ;)12:23
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Macerwell. that kinda sucks12:39
Macerno irc plugin for kopete :)12:39
Macerkind of a let down12:39
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timeless_mbpanyone here familiar w/ clutter? :) [and no, i don't mean the stuff that's lying around in my apartment)12:50
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jaemMacer: I think the KDE4 port of Konversation is reasonably useable now12:57
jeremiahtimeless_mbp: I have looked at it just a tiny bit.12:57
jaembut don't quote me on that12:57
jeremiahLooks interesting.12:57
timeless_mbpjeremiah: are you comfortable writing stuff in it? :)12:58
jaemtimeless_mbp: if you meant the stuff, I could tell you all about that :P12:58
Macerjaem: kind of like kopete a lot :)12:58
Macerah well12:58
Sho_Macer: The KDE4 port of Konversation is just fine12:58
jaemMacer: I'm a fan12:58
Sho_You can quote me on that12:58
jaemSho_: yay12:58
jeremiahI'm about to write a demo for the summit, but I probably can't help you since I suspect you may know more than I. :-/12:58
Macerkonqueror still totally blows12:58
jaemMacer: yeah... it needs a lot of work12:58
Macerdamn. wtf am i only getting 14MB/s in debian12:58
Macerin win7 i get like 8012:58
* Macer checks his hdparms12:58
timeless_mbpjeremiah: i know what it can do12:58
jaemRekonq, while low on features, is fairly nice, and has good KDE integration12:59
timeless_mbpbut i don't speak clutter12:59
jeremiahtimeless_mbp: Yeah, I imagine you know more about it than I.12:59
Macerwasn't it hdparms to change hd parameters?12:59
jaemMacer: singular13:00
Maceri was trying to tab it13:00
jeremiahtimeless_mbp: Out of curiosity, what are you looking to find answers to?13:00
Macerdebian doesn't come with it by default? wtf? :)13:00
timeless_mbpi want someone to write an app13:00
jeremiahMacer: Debian lets you install what you need, it cannot read your mind.13:00
timeless_mbpnot answers13:00
jeremiahtimeless_mbp: Ah.13:01
timeless_mbpi'd estimate it'd take about 4 business days13:01
jeremiahTo do what?13:01
timeless_mbpwow, the weather here knocked out my cable reception of BBCWN13:01
timeless_mbpjeremiah: i'm not going to describe it unless i get an offer to do the work13:02
timeless_mbpi promise it's interesting and fun :)13:02
Macer Timing cached reads:   2168 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1084.07 MB/sec13:02
Macer Timing buffered disk reads:  194 MB in  3.11 seconds =  62.31 MB/sec13:02
timeless_mbpand i offer food in payment13:02
Macerwoah too :)13:02
Macer HDIO_GET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device13:02
jeremiahI need a demo app to package for the summit . . .13:03
jeremiahBut four business days is a long time.13:03
Macerwtf. i'm only getting like 10-20MB/s xfers to this box13:04
Macerin windows i get like 100MB/s13:04
Maceror is windows just lying to me? :)13:04
Stskeepscaching does do a lot of stuff13:05
Stskeepswhat box is it?13:05
Macerjust a pc i have13:05
Macershuttle k4513:05
Maceri installed debian on it because i wanted to use kde413:05
Maceri'm getting like 10-25MB/s from my fileserver13:05
Macerwhere in windows i would usually get 80-100MB/s13:06
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Macerhm. is there a way to check to make sure it's cacheing correctly?13:07
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* jaem finally got the app packaged13:09
jaemseriously, whoever invented Debian packages was a sadist13:09
jaemdoes anyone care to try out the app?13:10
jaemit's a game, in response to a bounty posted on the forums13:10
Maceri would but i'm still building gentoo on my tablet13:10
Macerdo you have an ebuild? :)13:11
timeless_mbpjaem: on what platform?13:11
jaemif anybody actually knows how to play it, I'd appreciate a test-run; I'm too tired to learn it, and I need to make sure the high scores entry dialog is positioned correctly13:11
jaemtimeless_mbp: Diablo13:11
Macer    unknown 206[12] (vendor specific)13:11
jaemand Macer: no - I use Arch/*buntu, and occasionally SuSE :P13:11
jaemnever Gentoo13:11
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jaemis anyone able to give it a quick test-run, or should I just go to bed? :P13:13
Stskeepsjaem: nono, debian packages on maemo is insane13:13
Stskeepsmodern debian is saner13:13
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jeremiahmeh. Debian packaging facilitates apt-get13:13
jeremiahapt-get rocks.13:13
jaemStskeeps: the app currently bombs if you use the window switcher - is that easy to fix, in general?13:14
jaemjeremiah: pacman beats it in some ways, though13:14
Stskeepsjaem: SDL?13:14
jaemStskeeps: yep13:14
Stskeepsthere's a guide how to make that sane13:15
jaemStskeeps: will I stay sane following it? :P13:15
jeremiahjaem: I highly doubt it. Resolving complex dependencies is hard.13:15
jaemjeremiah: pacman isn't as good as apt, when it comes to borked dependencies, but I find it nicer to use for general tasks13:16
lcukjaem, it gets easier13:16
jaemand flexible13:16
lcukeven i can package things quickly now :D13:16
jaemlcuk: %11111000!!13:16
jaemStskeeps: thanks13:16
lcuki made liqtorch (and pushed to extras-devel) in 20 minutes yesterday!13:16
lcuk20 fudging minutes for a whole app :D13:16
jaemI haven't seen it yet13:16
* jaem enables -devel13:17
jaemtemporarily, that is :P13:17
lcuktho i have to say, i had a bugfix to apply in that as well lol13:17
jeremiahHeh, even lcuk is a convert to debian packaging! :)13:19
lcukam i hell13:19
jaemoh good grief13:19
lcukbut liqbase is 1 dependency13:19
lcukand it gives practically everything i need13:19
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jeremiahyeah, have a simple dependency chain makes life so much easier.13:19
lcukleave the hard stuff in libliqbase which is a kitchensink13:19
jaemI forget which computer I was on, but a few days ago, due to some bug or malfunction, I managed to send 64 variations of the same draft e-mail to someone13:19
lcukand let apps link to 1 thing makes it much better13:19
jaemactually, about 6 people CC'd13:20
jaemI also appear to have sent myself five blank e-mails yesterday13:21
jaemthis is vaguely odd13:21
jaemwell, anyhow, it's 3:30am here, and I have to be up by 913:22
jaemg'night, #maemo13:22
jaemthanks for the help13:22
timeless_mbpg'night jaem13:22
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Maceri can't figure it out13:22
Macernfs is giving me like 100KB/s13:22
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: does Mer have clutter?13:29
Stskeepsno, hence the whole debacle of no fremantle for n8x013:29
Stskeepstbh though i'm happy we don't :P13:29
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timeless_mbpisn't it possible to do software rendering?13:32
* timeless_mbp ponders13:32
timeless_mbpok, maybe i'm doing this wrong13:32
timeless_mbpmaybe this should be a web page instead of clutter :)13:32
zerojayPCThrough Mesa, but it'll be slow as shit.13:32
timeless_mbpMer will have a browser, right?13:32
Stskeepsyeah, Tear, until something better comes along :P13:33
timeless_mbpa browser's a browser13:34
timeless_mbpwhy should i care? :)13:34
timeless_mbpcan you find someone who can write html? :)13:35
* qwerty12_N810 sighs at the shit one has to go through in Maemo just to allow a program to run loaded with a file chosen from the File manager.13:35
timeless_mbp.desktop / mime database?13:35
timeless_mbpiirc it wasn't too bad13:35
qwerty12_N810Got that setup, but writing the handler turned out to be the most fun :)13:36
Stskeepsis it just me or has community chatter actually increased quite a bit since it got moved to talk.*? :P13:36
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timeless_mbpwhat's talk? :)13:37, or the hellhole as some might call it ;)13:37
Stskeeps(previous iTT)13:37
timeless_mbpHEL is enough for me13:37
timeless_mbpi don't need more :)13:37
jeremiahStskeeps: Don't you like clutter? What kind of problems does it cause on Mer?13:37
timeless_mbpjeremiah: support for legacy hardware :(13:37
timeless_mbpor rather, absolute lack theroef13:37
infobottimeless_mbp meant: or rather, absolute lack thereof13:38
Stskeepsjeremiah: i don't like clutter as i think most of the fremantle effects so far could have been implemented without a 3d basis (it helps, obviously), but hildon-desktop is so integrated with clutter we can't do a sane version without them13:38
timeless_mbpbrowser as window manager! :)13:39
timeless_mbp(there actually is a pretty cool gecko based window manager, i can't remember its name)13:39
jeremiahI doesn't have that many deps: Cairo, Pango and some other stuff.13:39
Stskeepsjeremiah: and GL ES13:39
jeremiahOh yeah, GL13:39
jeremiahBut how hard is that to add to Mer?13:39
Stskeepsjeremiah: we don't have 3d drivers in a N8x0 :)13:40
lcukhow hard is it to add gl support to maemo..13:40
jeremiahOkay, that would be a stopper.13:40
lcukgood/worthwhile gl support13:40
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lcukgood time to wave this again:
lcukdidnt i hear some rumblings that something was in progress13:43
Stskeepsno clue when though, and we are actually going more lightweight in mer13:44
lcukyeah i know13:44
lcukgood to see and hear people discussing lightweight methods of implementing good looking functionality13:45
lcukdecent effects without breaking the cpu budget13:45
lcukStskeeps, would still be amazing to use the powervr on n8x0 - even if just for games13:49
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slonopotamuswut? still no powervr drivers?13:50
Stskeepswe're just past summer holiday13:51
Stskeepscompany schedules doesn't always follow open source software schedules :)13:51
lcukisnt it the other way round13:52
lcukcompanies have schedules13:52
lcukopen source has fun13:52
slonopotamus'We (the community) would like to ask Nokia...' we haven't asked yet?!13:52
lcukwe have13:53
lcukmany many times13:53
Stskeepsslonopotamus: you'd be surprised what i figured out noone had asked for, but powervr ones people did ask for13:53
Stskeepscommunity doesn't have that amazing track record for actually receiving open sourced stuff though13:54
slonopotamusbtw, Stskeeps, aren't you supposed to be with your wife? :P13:54
Stskeepsslonopotamus: at work13:54
Stskeepsgotta feed her too, you know :P13:54
slonopotamushmm... /me took a vacation when married13:54
Stskeepsyea, but i'm finishing my work soon, so13:54
slonopotamusoh, k :)13:55
lcukStskeeps, with pvr, i dont think anyone would care if it was a microsoft signed binary blob13:56
slonopotamusthey opened dsme. and what?13:56
lcukas long as the fudging thing worked13:56
Stskeepsslonopotamus: stlc45xx, dsme, hildon input method, ..13:56
Stskeepsour track record is a bit shit with actually doing something once it's open sourced :)13:56
qwerty12_N810hildon input method is a misnomer13:57
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slonopotamusStskeeps, h-i-m is used in mer, right?13:57
Stskeepsupto that point it wasn't really used or developed13:57
Stskeepsi'm speaking of contributing back13:57
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Stskeepssame with modern kernels13:58
Stskeepsif anyone had bothered to check, they'd have realized just like pokylinux, umac.ko was forward portable13:59
Stskeepsand you didn't have to get a open source driver to keep n800 within a kernel tree13:59
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slonopotamusanyone has docs on running modern kernels? whatever i build just produce black screen and (wd?) reboot after several seconds14:02
slonopotamusat least working combination of kernel version + config14:02
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: and prod kvalo14:06
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sarowerHello all, Good Evening!14:11
sarowerAny body knows whether it is possible to handle the key event from applet in maemo sdk 5 beta 2 or not?14:11
lcuksarower, desktop applet?14:13
lcuki read no14:13
sarowerluck: yes...14:14
sarowerlcuk: yes.... desktop applet14:16
lcukim trying to find it now, but im sure i saw something14:17
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qwerty12_N810There's a Porting to Fremantle page on the wiki which says that they don't support text input14:18
lcukthat would be where i saw it then :)14:19
Macerjalapeno cheddar toriitlla combos14:21
Macerthey're awesome :)14:21
sarowerlcuk: "i read no" is it for me?14:21
MyrttiMacer: :-( make me hungry for things I'm not allowed :-( :-(14:22
Macermy n810 is REALLY hot14:22
MacerMyrtti: haha14:22
Maceri am a big fan of eat when you're hungry14:22
* Myrtti donates her gallbladder to Macer14:22
Myrttihere, you have it14:22
MyrttiI have nothing but trouble because of it14:23
Macerif you weren't meant to eat.. then you wouldn't get hungry14:23
Maceri'm only saying that because i'm 6' 3" and never get past 200lbs ;)14:23
Macerwhen i was in the Marines i maxed out at like 198.. but now i'm back down to 19014:24
MyrttiI'm only saying what I'm saying cause I was in the hospital for the weekend for inflammated gall bladder and pancrea caused by gallstones... *shrug*14:25
Myrttigave me a diet to be on before they snip the damned thing off with the stones14:25
sarowerlcuk: you there?14:25
aquatixMyrtti: ouch :(14:26
RST38hMyrtti: condolences14:27
Macermy n810 is dying14:27
RST38hDoes not sound good14:27
Macerit is really hot from this gentoo stuff14:27
Maceri think if i accidently dropped it in the toilet the water would flash off and the toilet would explode14:27
javispedroI would not expect any other temperature from Gentoo (TM).14:27
Macerdon't people get stones from like... too much calcium or something?14:28
RST38hjavis: hot, steamy, ... ?14:28
Macerjavispedro: it's awesome tho :)14:28
Maceronce i get matchbox going on it.. it will be even awesomer14:28
MyrttiMacer: I'm in the risk group by just being a female on hormonal birthcontrol14:28
RST38hMacer: General water quality in the area, some foods, genetic predisposition14:28
Myrttisucks to be me14:28
MacerMyrtti: mmmmmm.... combos :)14:29
sarowerAny body knows whether it is possible to handle the key event from applet in maemo sdk 5 beta 2 or not?14:31
sarowerqwerty12_N810: can you give me this answer?14:31
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RST38hHmm...he still haunts these parts...14:32
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aquatixMyrtti: sooo, no more munching limestones? so far for hobbies...14:32
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Myrttiaquatix: low-fat... I guess I should eat just rice crackers14:34
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aquatixMyrtti: ick14:40
* aquatix doesn't like those14:40
aquatixMyrtti: good luck though14:40
aquatixgallstones really suck...14:41
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Macerwell.kde4 isn't bad at all14:45
Macerit's actually pretty good14:45
lcukMyrtti, stop eating gravel14:45
lcukand get well soon <3   (i cant do your cool one lol)14:45
sarowerqwerty12_N810: Can you please give me the link?14:46
sarower"There's a Porting to Fremantle page on the wiki which says that they don't support text input"14:46
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Maceris qwerty12_N810 even here?14:47
javispedrosarower (I should give you a "let me google that for you" link since it was first Google hit, but eitherway)
X-FadeSweet, these HIG pages with pictures are coming along nicely:
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javispedroX-Fade, wanted to ask: what happens If I edit ?14:49
javispedroI mean, is the standard way to fix it or should I file bug?14:49
X-Fadejavispedro: Ask danielwilms. :)14:50
RST38hX-Fade: Hideous Done buttons taking 1/3 of the screen are still there =(14:50
X-Fadejavispedro: He seems to be doing the import.14:50
javispedrohi daniel14:51
danielwilmswe are just updating the wiki right at the moment14:51
javispedroeither way, apart from what seems a import problem (missing snippets)14:51
danielwilmsand it will take at least today to finish it14:51
javispedrothere's a documentation bug14:51
danielwilmsso if there is a problem still after that14:51
danielwilmsthen feel free to edit it14:52
javispedrothank you :)14:52
sarowerThank you....all for this support14:52
Myrttioh wow, I didn't realise it was online :-D14:53
Myrttithe developer guide in the wiki14:53
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javispedroah, lol :)14:54
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Myrttidanielwilms: ohai½14:54
* Myrtti collapses back to bed14:55
danielwilmsMyrtti: we are working on it in these days quite will be completed by the time...14:55
Myrttidanielwilms: sorry I had to take a sick leave from it :-(14:56
RST38hUmgh...can't hold this notebook any longer. Too hot.15:00
RST38hAnd that is *battery optimized* mode15:00
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wazdheya everybody15:17
Myrttioh wow, first snow in finland15:18
RST38hheya wazd15:18
wazdMyrtti: noway O_o15:18
aquatixMyrtti: wai?15:18
RST38hIce cream truck crash?15:18
wazdlooks like it was just server problem yesterday, OMW still works :)15:19
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slonopotamusMacer, why you're not happy with mer, i forgot?15:20
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Woollymorning chaps16:26
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lardmanhi Woolly and everyone else16:27
Woollylardman: what's crackin?16:27
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lardmanWoolly: not much16:28
Woollysame, same16:28
Woollygot an N800 the other day, so have been playing about with it16:28
pupnik_play nice now16:28
pupnik_   nice use of gpu for physics simulation16:29
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lardmanah, I thought the corner was going to blow up for something exciting :)16:31
lardmanthough a tilting world would be interesting16:31
Woollynone of this wind effect nonsense16:31
lardmanthough the wind would be good for explosions too16:32
Woollysome nifty smoke blowing effects16:33
lardman /me shivers16:33
Woollyscrew that16:34
WoollyI dont mind large caves, but pipes are a definite nono16:35
ShadowJKhm, claws seems to choke at around 30,000 mails per folder on N810 :)16:35
lardmanWoolly: and pipe liable to fill with water at that!16:36
zerojayPCThe presence system tray app... what size icons does it use?16:36
aolShadowJK: 32768 would be classic :)16:36
zerojayPCFor the im protocols.16:36
Woollylardman: exactly!16:36
ShadowJKaol, nah it just goes into swapstorm16:36
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ShadowJKI'm actually reading mail in a folder of 37000, and it's painful, so I just guessed 30000 is where it gets iffy16:37
aolbtw, noob question: does diablo support swap ?16:37
aoldoes it use the internal flash as swap as default?16:38
ShadowJKyou have to enable it16:38
aolah ok that explains it16:38
ShadowJKand then it creates a ".swap" file on internal flash16:38
slonopotamusaol, it's linux, after all. swapon <whatever you have>16:38
aolfremantle has 1 gb as default?16:38
aolmy linux knowledge comes from embedded stuff, so I'm a bit in awe with these "computer features" :)16:39
* lardman curses Outlook16:39
aolbusybox etc16:39
ShadowJKswapping on flash is a very slow and painful thing anyway..16:39
ShadowJKBecause of the dreadful random iop performance16:40
slonopotamusbetter than nfs disk :P16:40
aolwell can't be any worse than on netbooks right16:40
ShadowJKit's same class as netbooks16:40
aolatleast my asus 901 gets faster when I switch the swap to external sd16:40
ShadowJKIt will get faster right after switching16:40
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ShadowJKwhen the swap file is just initialized, all swapouts will happen sequentially, which is fast-ish on flash16:41
ShadowJKafter awhile, swapping will be random read and write, which is horribly slow on flash16:41
ShadowJKoften NFS would be faster :P16:41
slonopotamusi object16:41
ShadowJKbut it'd use more power over wifi16:41
aolso is it usable after a while?16:42
lardman~curse Windows16:42
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Windows !16:42
aolI mean on maemo16:42
ShadowJKIt does increase the size of programs you can run16:42
ShadowJKby a considerable amount16:43
slonopotamusflash mem doesn't care about sequential/random reads16:43
slonopotamushdds care. they need to reposition reading head for random reads16:43
aolthe new phones will run fennec => lot of swapping :)16:43
slonopotamuslardman, ...16:43
ShadowJKslonopotamus, flash cares too, you can only erase in 512k blocks. So, if you modify 4k (typical) randomly, the flash controller needs to read 512k into cache, change 4k, erase 512k from flash, write back 512k16:44
ShadowJKso a 4k write becomes a 512k write.16:44
ShadowJKThis write amplification causes huge slowdown for random writes16:44
aolis the block size really 512k?16:44
aoli thought 16-32kb16:44
ShadowJKit's on that magnitude..16:44
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lardmanyeah it's not 512kb afaik16:45
ShadowJK128 - 51216:45
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slonopotamusShadowJK, not true if you use swap file on smart fs :)16:45
* aol thinks he needs to increaase his internal buffers then 16:45
glassi guess once upon a time there was 4k flash chips16:45
ShadowJK"faster" devices might actually consist of several flash chips in a parallell raid0 configuratoin, this would increase the block size even further :)16:46
lardmandefault for jffs2 is 64kb16:46
slonopotamuslardman, it depends on hw, not fs16:46
ShadowJKwell jffs2 has no say in the matter, it depends on the hw16:46
lardmanwe're talking SD cards now then? I thought we were talking internal flash16:47
* lardman gets back to his work16:47
slonopotamusboth are just a piece of nand memory ;)16:47
lardmanyeah, but SD has a firmware layer inbetween16:48
X-FadeAnd if you look at UBIFS, you see that it works on the bare hardware.16:49
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aolI guess the rx-51 will have it's swap on the huge 32gb storage16:51
aolbut dunno what is the block size there16:51
aolI hope it supports SDXC16:52
ShadowJKswap doesn't work on ubifs/jffs2 anyway :)16:52
aollike rumors say 5900 will16:52
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ShadowJKAnyway, I compiled swapon from util-linux since it lets you set priority, which busybox swapon doesn't let you16:54
ShadowJKthat way I have swap both on internal and external at equal priority16:54
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ShadowJKBefore launching a big program (like boswars or before reading huge folders with claws) I cycle swap off and on, on both swapfiles16:55
ShadowJKwhen I launch the program, swapout of the rest of the system will be mostly sequential and pretty fast when it goes to both cards at once16:55
ShadowJKIt's funny when it's much faster to read in entire swapfile and write it out again :)16:56
pupnik_did you post that to talk.maemo ?16:56
pupnik_i could see it helping on some of these borderline games16:56
lardmanaargh, bloody Windows16:56
ShadowJKMy thing would probably be faster if I had swap on one card and game data on the other card16:57
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javispedro"Please put a bullet in these shaky cams. For whatever reason they're being used, it's not worth it." -- Couldn't agree more.17:06
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javispedrozerojayPC, slashdot comment about some recent movie (district 9)17:10
GAN8001That's the problem with original style choices.17:11
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GeneralAntillesEverybody else insists on over using them for the next 30 years.17:11
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GeneralAntillesHow many war movies have ripped off Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers since those came out?17:12
GeneralAntillesGood movie, though, all the same.17:12
javispedromakes me sick :(17:13
aolI love BoB, hated SPR17:13
aolhope the pacific is as good as bob17:13
glassi've been watching too many war documents lately :p17:14
aolBoB has a nice "feel of war" ... forests of bastogne were amazing17:15
glassaol: seen the semi-recent törni document? the one with phantom soldiers included17:15
glassworth watching17:15
aolmaybe I should, having had some relatives involved in activities like törni...17:16
javispedrothat's what you get with "shaky cam"17:18
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Woollycloverfield was bobbins17:20
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glassaol: you definetely should then17:20
aolcloverfield was crap17:21
aolsomehow shaky cams did not bother me in bob17:21
glasscloverfield felt like you saw the movie in the trailer17:21
aolbut in cloverfield i was furious17:21
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javispedroI can't stand them in the big screen, and on little screen they remind me our current dvb-t broadcasts are interlaced.17:22
javispedroso they suck either way.17:22
glassaol: the small bits i saw felt like intentional shaking of the cam rather than 'normal'17:22
aolyep, it's feld out of place17:23
glasslike fckkk.. we could shoot more stable whilst drunk in a nightclub with a 7650 so wtf :D17:23
aolas well as the "video camera effect"17:23
aolmaybe that was because of crap quality effects :)17:24
aolto mask them :)17:24
GAN800Be nice to go back to tracks and dollys. ;)17:26
GAN800Even steadycams aren't so steady17:27
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glassrobotic arms for camerastands and such are a lot easier and cheaper to build nowadays than say 50 years ago17:28
glassfor movie making cherry picking shots17:28
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glassif the director isn't a total douche it doesn't matter that much17:29
WoollyI'm having a bit of trouble with gprof. I compile my c files, and use the -o flag to create my output, then specify the -pg flag. Upon running my output, the gmon file isn't created. Any ideas?17:31
javispedroyou have to add -pg to the linked cmd line too.17:32
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Woollyjavispedro: I'm compiling and linking on the one line at the moment though, I think17:33
Woollygcc -Wall -o quirp file1.c file2.c file3.c -pg is what I've got17:34
javispedrooh, true. does it work on desktop gcc?17:34
Woollyit's not exiting properly, I kill it17:34
Woollywhich doesn't cause the gmon.out file to be created17:35
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javispedro:) I couldn't get gprof to work in the device, so I have my hopes on oprofile17:37
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Woollyjavispedro: even with it exiting nicely?17:38
javispedroit crashes :(17:38
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Woollysilly question, but on the N800, is the SD bus underclocked?17:46
Stskeepsthere's 48mhz kernel i think17:48
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javispedrommu_screen: there will be a Haiku alpha soon it seems.18:09
javispedrohows your work going?18:09
zerojayPCScreenshots of Facebook running through RTCOMM -
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wjtzerojayPC: good stuff!18:22
wjti'll try to make time to look into the issues you're seeing18:23
zerojayPCAre you one of the Collabora guys?18:23
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* zerojayPC won't be happy until he clicks on the Presence system tray icon and sees the list of connected protocols covers his screen, muhahahaha.18:24
mmu_screenjavispedro: Johannes managed to jump to the kernel last week18:24
mmu_screenon ARM18:24
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wjtzerojayPC: yup, for my sins I wrote haze18:26
javispedrommu_screen, cool :)18:26
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zerojayPCwjt: Well, I'm no programmer.. and it's essentially just a simple hack.. but just the fact that I could even get it working this easily is a testament to your work on haze.18:27
javispedrommu_screen, can you point to the gsoc reports? (if they have been written, of course)?18:27
zerojayPCwjt: And thanks for anything you can help with.18:28
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mmu_screenhe didn't blog recently, but he's writing a new item18:30
javispedronp, I know these things are the hardest ;P18:30
wjtzerojayPC: I'm glad it wasn't too hard :)18:30
javispedroyep, seen that already18:31
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mmu_screenif you want to try18:32
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* lardman recommends that people don't manually create correlation masks18:54
lardmanat least not to try to correlate with dithered numbers18:54
zerojayPCwjt: Happen to have a myspace.profile laying around?18:57
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wjtnope, sorry.18:57
* zerojayPC cracks knuckles and starts typing away on his N810.18:58
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andre__hmm. diablo SDK really did not include a finger keyboard?19:04
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* andre__ confused and can't remember19:04
danielwilmsandre__: diablo did19:05
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andre__heja danielwilms. asking because of
Stskeepsandre__: it really did not19:06
qwerty12_N810It only came with the example input method which is the stylus input method only.19:06
Stskeepsonly stylus example and probably not set up19:06
andre__ah... probably wontfix for diablo anyway :-/19:06
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danielwilmswe discussed about that shortly today...but let me have a look at the bug again :)19:07
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danielwilmsStskeeps are you sure?? hmmmm... :)19:07
andre__and just realized that nokia calls the "finger keyboard" in diablo "virtual keyboard" in fremantle. while "virtual keyboard" in diablo has been dropped. fun, wondering what to do in bugzilla now to reduce confusion. sigh19:07
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andre__maybe i should prepare dinner while thinking about it... :)19:08
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danielwilmsandre__ leave it open I'll have a look tomorrow19:09
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dopperdoes anyone know where personal menu stores its configuration file?19:12
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dopperthanks qwerty1219:16
fiferboythanks qwerty1219:17
mgedminwhat, fremantle no longer has a small on-screen virtual kb?19:18
* mgedmin unhappy19:18
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jeremiahReally, I thought most people hated the virtual keyboard.19:30
Macerit helps for quick things19:32
Maceri the qwerty isnt too good on an n81019:33
mgedminsome keys are difficult to find on the hardware kw19:33
mgedminespecially when you're typing regexes in vim19:33
mgedminalso, you need both hands to use the hardware kw, while one hand is sufficient for the vkb19:33
jeremiahokay, makes sense. :)19:34
* mgedmin has this bad habit of reading while eating, and wants to be able to fix OCR mistakes in ebooks19:34
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fiferboylcuk: ping?19:40
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fiferboylcuk: How do you store your huge liqbase db on the device?19:50
lcuki havent worked that out yet, it starts small and grows lol19:51
lcukits in /media/mmc2 at the moment19:51
lcukbut it should ask and use where told19:51
lcukcos someone with n800 might not have mmc219:51
fiferboyThat's what I am thinking19:52
lcukim actually almost at the point of dropping the db for a while19:52
lcukif i cant solve some other issue i have :)(19:52
fiferboyOn first run have the user decide where to store the database, store that location in the config file in the user's home19:52
fiferboylcuk: What issue are you having?19:53
lcuklatency - the old system is instant.  the full database has an (acceptable to everyone else but me) latency19:53
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lcukit gives nice things and new features19:54
fiferboyYour old system was filesystem-based?19:54
lcukeach sketch is a file19:54
lcukto show a cell in the calendar for instance, it simply tries to load that file19:54
lcukfor even thousands of files19:54
lcukits really ridiculously quick19:54
lcukbut i havent got tagging and grouping as i want with that19:55
lcuki'll make it work :)19:55
fiferboyI can see where a database would be better for searching by metadata19:55
lcukits tonnes better, i work with databases all day and have the web database for liqbase stuff19:55
lcukand since i made same on the device i've been umming and arring19:56
lcukits the first time i have had to cnsider compromising fluidity19:56
lcukive been talking to some sqlite people and seeing if theres anything i can do19:56
fiferboyYou would likely need to take the same approach for storage regardless - ask the user where to store file/db19:57
lcukbut i fear i might just be at the limit of what is workable - 100mb of data on these tiny devices is a lot19:57
lcukbut because the system comes with no user data its different19:58
fiferboyMaybe the RX51 will handle it better19:58
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lcuki am writing to ~19:58
lcukwhich is the proper place for all user data19:58
lcukany hacks (like mmc2) would likely come via a symlink than movign the physical file19:58
lcukso codewise still acts like a legit linux app19:59
fiferboyI would write the config file to ~/.birdlist/birdlist.ini with an entry for where the database is stored19:59
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Who'd want mmc2 with 32GB? :D19:59
* lcuk salivates19:59
lcuki'd be happy with bigger than the 1gb memory card im using at the mo lol20:00
lcuki loath having to use the 2gb internal20:00
lcukfiferboy, are you going to allow the user to choose *anywhere*20:01
lcukor just a few select locations20:01
lcuk(think, birdlovers wouldnt know how big different folders are or how much space there is20:02
fiferboyAnywhere would be more device-agnostic, but have more likelyhood to screw up20:02
lcukyeah, i see it as being standard for users to try to write db into / ;)20:02
lcukand how would they know20:03
lcukif you run your app on something like the smartq - do they have mmcs ?20:03
lcukor desktops - do users need the choice20:03
fiferboyI have no idea what smartq has, and desktops wouldn't need the choice20:03
lcukperhaps, it would be better to say fukkit, store it in ~ and find a global solution for users20:03
lcukwho want to move their whole ~ to somewhere with more space20:04
fiferboyThis is the trouble I am running into, I was hoping you had solved all this already :)20:04
lcuki havent, i just used mmc2 as i said20:04
* timeless_mbp just had fun breaking an applet20:04
fiferboyBack to the drawing board20:04
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lcukwhat i did do tho - is the database was liqbrain_user.db20:04
lcukor liqbrain_root.db20:04
fiferboyAh, if multiple users choose to store their database in the same directory, good catch20:05
lcukyeah - unlikely but when i was devving i noticed it20:05
lcukhow does the OS choose where ~ is20:05
lcukand can i just map it to /media/mmc2 or somwhere i *know* ive got space for the whole thing20:06
lcuk(and doesnt that also free up issues of space on /20:06
lcuki dunno, is a password file where the filesystem is generated?20:06
kfxusers are assigned $HOME in /etc/passwd20:07
timeless_mbplcuk: you can also change HOME for a single process20:07
* timeless_mbp typically does: HOME=/tmp/timeless; mkdir $HOME; cd20:08
timeless_mbpthere are minor issues like Xauth20:08
timeless_mbpbut for certain kinds of apps it's sufficient20:08
lcukok, so its a technicality, but feasible20:08
lcuk(me is attacking this from a C:\documents and settings" pov20:08
* mgedmin remembers trying to deploy a web server that wanted matplotlib, which wanted to *write* to stuff in $HOME20:08
timeless_mbpas long as your app doesn't do something stupid like talk to lots of other processes20:09
lcukwell, assume global20:09
lcukthat doesnt need symlinking or mounting things and stuff does it20:09
timeless_mbpbut normally you'd just change /etc/passwd20:09
lcukits just an edit of the /etc/passwd?20:09
lcukcool, thanks qwerty, kfx20:09
timeless_mbpor if you're on solaris you'd poke around w/ the automounter20:10
timeless_mbpwhich is much more fun20:10
lcuki'd prefer that solution, especially if i could attempt it on my 810 - it frees up much needed space20:10
timeless_mbpif home = /home/timeless and there's an automounter, that can mean anything :)20:10
lcuksee comment above about windows ;)20:10
timeless_mbpjust keep in mind that your n8x0 likes to try to share its memory card via usb20:10
lcukoooh early t ready, thx guys \o20:10
timeless_mbpwhich results in apps being um... well20:10
timeless_mbpfremantle will be more fun20:10
timeless_mbpyou'll be able to give certain apps ghosts20:11
timeless_mbpor at least get them to see ghosts20:11
timeless_mbpi think i got one app to see two ghosts :)20:11
* fiferboy goes for coffee to think about database storage20:11
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* lardman heads off20:23
lardmanbye chaps20:23
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lcuktimeless_mbp, whats a ghost?20:39
VDVsxghost process, I assume :)20:41
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lcukwell since we have ghost apps already, im not so sure that was the intent20:47
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VDVsxliqxxx is a ghost app ? :P20:48
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lcukVDVsx, its not a ghost app20:50
lcukyou have to enter thumbprint identification to run it tho20:50
qwerty12_N810lcuk: maybe you should make it use fingers instead ;P20:51
javispedroliqxxx? you're genius. that's some app the iphone is not getting.20:51
timeless_mbpthe ghost was a memory card20:51
lcukahh, like ms shadow copy facility thingy20:51
lcukso even tho its in use its accessible elsewhere?20:52
timeless_mbplike bad accounting20:52
timeless_mbpthe system tells applications when memory cards appear20:52
timeless_mbpand it tells them when they disappear20:52
timeless_mbpif applications aren't careful, they can miss a disappear message20:52
timeless_mbpand decide they have 2 cards20:52
timeless_mbpeven if they were only told about the same card twice20:53
* lcuk understands now20:53
timeless_mbpin my case, i think i managed to get an app to think it had 3 cards, not two20:53
lcukso you may end up scanning the media twice or something20:53
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timeless_mbpin this case, the app was the thing that says how much disk space things have free/avail20:53
timeless_mbpso, it isn't a particularly interesting app20:54
timeless_mbpi just thought i could break it20:54
* timeless_mbp is pretty good at that20:54
lcukthat is useful20:54
timeless_mbpbreaking things?20:54
lcukand your breakage of said app is even more useful20:54
timeless_mbpthe app isn't actually useful20:54
timeless_mbpsince it can't keep track of all the proper things anyway20:55
lcukyeah, i noticed at the last summit you had a knack of bre\kin stuff20:55
lcukso i took my ball home and didnt let you play :D lol20:55
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lcukyour database, its in sqlite format isnt it20:59
lcukdid you design the schema for it21:00
fiferboyI did21:00
lcukif i get the schema for mine to you, could you give it a once over and see whether ive made any complete cockups21:01
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lcuki know its easir having the app, but its in bits atm21:01
lcukit probably wont be tonight tho, ill give you a shout tomorrow probably if thats ok21:02
fiferboyThe table creates statements and a document describing relationships should suffice21:03
fiferboyTomorrow is fine with me21:03
lcukcool ok, gives me time to write up the doc lol21:03
fiferboyI found it very odd designing tables in sqlite, as it is not a strongly-typed database (to say the least!)21:03
lcukyaeh, its a bit looser than the databases im normally sitting on21:04
lcukdo you create from code, or from a template blank db?21:04
fiferboyThat's for sure, and even when you do define data types, you don't have to stick to them21:05
fiferboyI have the create statements in sql text files (in case I screw up the template), and a template database21:05
lcukheh, thats how i started here, but ive got a set of upgrade functions that start from having no file at all now21:06
lcukand when i make amendements they are done incrementally with whatever conversions would be required21:06
fiferboyHa.  That's how I started and now I am doing it the other way!21:06
lcuk(i hold a version field)21:06
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fiferboyA version field would probably be a good idea for me too, so I can alter existing database after software upgrades21:07
fiferboyFortunately, not releaseing anything yet I haven't had to deal with that21:07
lcukyeah well thats why its there - im expecting my db to grow from here21:07
lcuksince it contains pretty much everything i write21:07
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fiferboyHow many tables do you have?21:08
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lcuk4, liqbrain_info,liqusers,liquserfriends,liqpebbles21:10
lcuksame as the web db21:10
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lcukthe liqpebble one is the massive one tho21:11
lcukit contains the river of sketches and photos and text notes and tags21:11
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fiferboyliqbase treats each type the same (sketch, photo, notes, etc)21:13
lcukyeah - just a blob of typed data21:13
lcukthe alternative wouldv been minimum 3 query lookups for each of the datatypes, then software merging21:13
lcukand others for the tags and ratings21:14
fiferboyDoes this ease interoperability? (ie. using sketches in calendar)21:14
lcukselect pebbledata from pebbles where datestamp='17aug2009'21:14
lcukits also excellent for sync21:15
fiferboyIs there a place that you notice latency most?  Or is it a general increase over the filesystem method?21:15
lcukinserts went from 0.1-0.2 seconds to over 3 seconds21:16
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lcukobviously its not that bad for a near empty db21:16
lcukbut since its for my data - having that everytime kills it for me21:16
* lcuk is his worst critic21:16
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fiferboyDo you have lots of indexes?21:17
lcukwhich is prolly the reason lol21:18
fiferboyHmm, indexes make SELECTs faster, but slow down INSERTs21:18
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lcukyeah i know - it hasnt made that much difference tho, ill remove them and do a full reimport and see21:19
lcuki think i changed another option at the same time as putting indexes on21:20
lcuki had no indexes at first21:20
chxHi i am using telepathy how can i send an irc command? What i  type starting with / just appears21:20
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fiferboyI guess it depends on whether the hit to SELECTs is significant21:20
lcukyeah, ill have a play - ill let you know more - ill get a proper outline together anyway, is beneficial for more than just this peek21:21
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lcukthanks fifer :)21:21
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lcukhelps if i make the archive available to import from21:26
lcukjust removed every index21:26
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lcukthe other change i made was putting bulk inserts inside a transaction - cos they were the slowest point21:26
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fiferboylcuk: Bulk imports on the device take too long even with transactions, that's why I changed to providing a pre-loaded database file21:31
fiferboyWon't work for you, or course21:31
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lcukit will :D21:31
lcukbut until we have screens like tracing paper it will be hard21:31
lcukmmmmm tracing paper21:31
lcuki wonder what i could do with that21:31
fiferboyWhat about having the camera on the back of the device display an image that you can draw an overlay on?21:32
fiferboyDigital tracing paper?21:32
lcuktheres a button in the top right of liq* apps21:32
lcukwhen you press it it21:32
lcukhalf brights the screen and turns it into tracing paper21:33
lcukyou can draw ontop of anything in the system21:33
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lcukit will also eventually give access to help menu and contact info, but its a nice little feature21:34
lcuklets me make notes about what i am doing21:34
lcukand what needs to be done21:34
lcukand lets me draw mustaches on photos :D21:35
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lcuk:D 97% of archive copied21:36
lcuki wonder how long a full sync will take from device to device via web21:36
fiferboyMustaches on photos should be the selling point of that feature21:36
lcukindeed it is :) i like to have a pen handy all the time21:37
lcukdraw round something on a screen and go "wtf" is another thing im doing a lot of recently21:37
lcukbecause its saved in the database with a key containing the screen name21:37
lcukits easy to bring up all the notes ive made when im working on it21:37
fiferboyYou could sell a device with liqbase installed to Perez Hilton and make his job easier21:38
* fiferboy is deeply ashamed he suggested that21:38
lcukive gotta get everything else working first21:38
lcukbut thats mostly done now21:38
lcuki made a complete app from end to end and pushed to extras-devel in 20mins yesterday21:39
lcuk:) its getting easier21:39
lcukstill rough around the edges, but i can see where its goin21:39
fiferboyHow many liq-based apps are in extras-devel?21:40
lcuk2 now :)21:40
lcukthe playground has 40 widget/microapps tho that could be packages as standalone21:40
lcukand are mostly test21:40
lcukdone before i knew how to package it up on its own21:41
lcukthings like the calendar will be standalone or integrated21:41
lcukthe map viewer isnt standalone anymore - thats going to be a standard pic viewer for anything in the river21:42
fiferboyAnd the mustach-drawer21:42
lcukbuilt into the library21:42
lcukbasic core functionality lol21:42
lcuki like to draw..21:42
lcukbiggest problem ive ever had has been text input :)21:43
lcukive never "made" my own textbox before21:43
lcuknow i have a funky one that works well enough to just use21:43
lcukits even got vkb integration (thanks to z4chh) :)21:44
lcukyeah, im really pleased with how the code is coming together.  its probably gonna fall flat on its face at some point, but im ready for that i think21:45
fiferboyHave you pretty much written everything in low-level C, or do you use some higher-level libraries?21:46
lcukits all in c21:46
lcuki would like one day to find a way to use the qt support libraries tho21:47
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lcuki doubt ill ever be able to support the widget (qt widgets have a different rendering tactic that doesnt suit the resolutionindependent methods i have in place21:47
fiferboyWhich libraries are those?21:47
lcukeverything non visual lol21:48
fiferboyYou can use the Qt libraries without the GUI portion pretty easily, but adjusting your code would definitely be non-trivial!21:48
* lcuk is a qualified c++ dev, i know object oriented code is better for larger stuff21:48
lcukmy code doesnt have to change - id just add c++ bindings21:49
lcukits laid out in classes anyway21:49
lcukits as clean as i could make it21:49
lcuki just shift over and start writing liq* apps using qt21:49
SpCombhearing "qualified C++ dev" sounds funny21:50
lcukbut with the low level stuff taken care of21:50
lcukSpComb, i dont make use of my quals tho21:50
lcuki was trying to say "i know how to write c++ stuff"21:50
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lcukfiferboy, when i started writing the library (after last summit) the first thing i tried was doing it in c++21:52
lcukbut compilation time is a bitch on device21:52
fiferboyI bet21:52
lcukits fine in c, infact better than fine - its fast21:53
lcukfast enough that i almost wish i could download source and compile on the fly ;)21:53
fiferboyI'm surprised you didn't use python ;)21:53
lcukbut n810 doesnt have enough space on / for most users with multiple apps21:53
lcuki started with python21:53
lcukbut it was too slow21:53
lcukso i dusted off my (ancient) c stuff21:54
lcukand got to work21:54
fiferboyIt is mostly initialization time with python, isn't it?21:54
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SpCombpython code can be profiled/optimized with some effort as well21:55
lcukand no21:55
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SpCombso you can write the code, write the tests, and profile/optimize in the same time it takes you to just write the C code :)21:55
lcukSpComb, have you seen liqbase21:55
lcuk if not21:56
lcukand this c code will last me a lifetime21:56
SpCombpixel manipulation is one of the weak points, yes21:57
lcukit wont be once liqbase has bindings21:57
lcukpython is great for glue21:57
lcukmost important part - ive put into code things ive thought about21:57
lcukand really pleased with the results and met loads of interesting people along the way21:58
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lcukbtw spcomb, that video is now almost 6 months old21:59
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slonopotamusMacer, it works? :)22:00
SpCombstill a bit far from the iPhone :)22:01
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lcukSpComb, iphone can go ** itself, i stopped fingerpainting years ago22:03
* GeneralAntilles slumps down and dies.22:04
lcukyou wont respawn this time22:04
GeneralAntillesandre__, that's so awesome.22:04
GeneralAntillesOhsit! Gray screen!22:04
andre__GeneralAntilles, yes, please?22:04
GeneralAntillesandre__, finger keyboard/virtual keyboard.22:05
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to tell Nokia that consistency is king.22:05
andre__i think i'm going to move the virtual one to x-graveyard22:05
andre__and open a new product. :-/22:05
GeneralAntillesWell, where are Nokia's naming conventions exposed?22:06
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andre__they exist?!22:07
GeneralAntillesCan we just supercede them? :D22:07
GeneralAntillesEr, as far as the keyboard goes. ;D22:07
andre__probably in some UI Spec files. i tried hard, but i haven't read all of them ;-))22:07
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GeneralAntillesI mean, if we just ignore THEIR naming convention, how many strings in the OS are we going to have problems with?22:08
lcukwhen translation gets done, you dont translate logs too do you?22:09
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zerojayPCGeneralAntilles: No one over at Nokia seems to care abouth consistency.22:10
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zerojayPCGeneralAntilles: And it's one of the things I would be throwing chairs about if I worked there.22:10
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lcukthrowing chairs only increases the furniture bill22:11
zerojayPCGeneralAntilles: And the fact that I can't touch those strings until after release makes it that much more infuriating.22:11
lcukand generally causes those that could fix it to be off work22:11
zerojayPClcuk: IKEA?22:11
GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, yeah, nasty, maybe it'll be better for Harmattan.22:11
GeneralAntillesThe oft-touted openness of Android fails again.22:11
zerojayPCGeneralAntilles: That's why we're pushing to test out Transifex in the next sprint.22:12
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hah22:12
andre__i must even say that calling the onscreen keyboard "virtual keyboard" makes sense, now that the other virtual one is gone22:12
* divide_by_zero , nearly napping, suddenly envisioned Steve Ballmer throwing chairs at his room and screaming "consistency, consistency, consistency!"22:12
zerojayPCdivide_by_zero: Except I have more hair.22:12
GeneralAntillesandre__, yeah, I agree, but. . . .22:12
lcukand hopefully less sweat22:12
zerojayPCThat's something I cannot promise you, especially on days like today. :/22:12
GeneralAntillesandre__, well, how many virtual input bugs do we tend to get?22:12
GeneralAntillesandre__, triaging them to the right place probably wont kill us.22:13
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lcukdamn import  is takin forever22:13
andre__i think we'll survive. i'll come up with something(tm)22:13
lcukandre__, i was under the impression nokia said "just because there is only one keyboard by default, doesnt mean others wont be created"22:14
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Stskeepsdon't get me started on that one..22:14
lcukwhich i take to mean you may still have duplicity in future22:14
andre__lcuk, also true22:14
lcukso still take care with wording22:14
lcukheh Stskeeps22:15
Stskeepsespecially since they changed API to be unrecognisable and virtual keyboard doesn't work, and the replacement one doesn't work yet cos of the confusing API :)22:15
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lcuklols @ sts's rattled cage22:15
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lcukhuzzah! import finished22:16
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thopiekarI want to buy a programable board, but I don't know where.. Do you know? :/22:19
fiferboylcuk: You are doing a database import on the device?22:20
lcukyeah unindexed22:20
lcukto see the difference22:20
lcukand its drastic22:20
lcukthe calendar doesnt work at all now lol22:21
thopiekarslonopotamus: will check that site out.. thanks :)22:21
lcukoh, there we go22:21
lcukits finally found the records22:21
fiferboyLong query?22:22
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thopiekarbut aren't the specialised on "dev-boards"?22:22
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slonopotamusthopiekar, i hope i understood what you meant by 'programmable board correctly'22:22
lcukbasically "select pebbledata from liqpebble where class=cal and datestamp=date"22:22
infobotslonopotamus meant: thopiekar, i hope i understood what you meant by 'programmable board correctlrd'22:22
lcuklike i said up there ^22:22
thopiekarI actually don't want a dev board for maemo fremantle you know :)22:23
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fiferboylcuk: So the indexes (indicies?) made a bit of a difference?22:23
lcukit then pushed the main problem to inserts22:24
lcukits managable with the indexes22:24
lcukand ill do inserts in a thread22:24
lcukill have to22:24
lcuki was creating the files anyway (never stopped) ill just set a thread going and tell it which file22:24
fiferboyI would suggest inserting the data initially to a non-indexed "staging" table then pushing them to the correct table, but I think I would be concerned with data loss22:25
fiferboyAnd you would be moving the problem to the background, like your threading idea anyway22:25
thopiekarslonopotamus: I'm searching for a board with less features like the beagleboard has...22:25
thopiekarjust for little and simple programms22:26
GeneralAntillesthopiekar, Arduino?22:26
lcukfiferboy, after an insert i expect the sync to kick in anyway22:26
GeneralAntillesthopiekar, "programmable board" is a pretty meaningless description.22:26
lcukdataloss isnt a real problem during content creation22:26
lcukevery sketch still has a uid22:26
thopiekarI see :/22:26
lcukand a file22:27
lcukits the tagging and rating thats gonna be a bitch22:27
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lcukfiferboy, surprisingly, when i do the lookups based on id its ok22:28
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lcukthe normal wall loads up a dataset containing only id22:28
lcukand creates however many empty pebble_view views22:28
lcukonly when a pebble_view is shown on screen does it load22:28
lcukso the graffiti wall itself is safe22:28
fiferboyThe id number would be stored in the table sequentailly anyway, right?22:29
lcukmake datestamp an int and index it22:29
lcukits autoindex22:29
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lcukthats the only index left in the table22:29
lcukie, not explicit22:29
fiferboyDo you use INTEGER AUTO INCREMENT in the table create?22:29
thopiekarGeneralAntilles: thanks, could be the kind of board I looked for!22:29
fiferboyOk, that's the only strict datatype in all of sqlite22:30
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lcukthe other indexes were done in update2, so were like:22:30
lcukcreate index liqpebble_datatitle ON liqpebble(datatitle);22:30
fiferboyI'm going to try indexing my tables and see what kind of difference it makes22:31
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lcukyeah, you have less inserts than im expecting22:31
fiferboyWell, I have a couple of static tables, but most will accept inserts and updates22:32
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fiferboyBut not on the order of magnitude you are using, probably22:32
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lcukyeah, your updates will be in clusters22:33
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lcukthe updates for me are fast clusters - and have to be faster than turning a page22:33
fiferboyDoes sqlite3 ".indices %" return all indexes for you?22:35
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fiferboyIt does, but creating a two-column index on a 300K row table takes a while on the device...22:40
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lcuki dunno22:45
lcukthe sqlite3 exe wasnt included i thought22:45
fiferboyI found out, I was just being lazy22:45
fiferboyI compiled it and transfered it to my tablet22:45
lcuki have always prefered working from code22:46
lcuki am afraid of the (admittedly powerful) linux command line22:46
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lcukfiferboy, really glad we had a chat, i am gonna vanish properly now22:52
lcukat least i know where some of the issue lies :) thanks22:52
fiferboyNo problem, talk to you later22:52
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thopiekarGeneralAntilles: do you know other microcontroller boards, where I would be able to program in C++ or even Python?22:53
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thopiekaraah excause me, GeneralAntilles, the IDE is written in Java and which allows to write programms in c++...22:58
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jXhey timeless, I just popped in too. :)23:09
jaem_N810hey folks23:09
timeless_mbpi'm at dinner23:09
jXok, so, my 810 is nearby, but I don't know where. I have mplayer installed, and mp3s on the device. Can someone tell me a commandline to get the little jerk to play an MP3 so I can find out where it's hiding?23:10
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jaem_N810mplayer filename.mp323:14
jaem_N810there are more options, but that'll do it23:14
jXyeah, I tried that jsut now, because I'm dumb and didn't think of it first23:14
jXshould work23:14
mmu_screenvlc !23:14
jX[MENU] Can't open menu config file: /root/.mplayer/menu.conf23:14
jXoh, wait23:14
jXI might be dumb again23:14
Firebirdyou could try going to user "su - user"23:14
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qwerty12_N810mmu_screen: on Haiku, VLC may be a better choice but mplayer is better in Maemo :p23:15
jXI'm jsut dumb23:15
jXI found it!23:15
Firebirdyou found it?23:15
jXI should have tried before asking here but I have had a bad day and am not thinking clearly.23:16
jaem_N810does anyone here know much about SDL on Maemo23:16
jaem_N810jX: don't worry about it - we all have those days23:16
jXfwiw, the song I picked to find it was the theme from Flash Gordon, from Queen. so I heard it yell, "Flash! Ahhhhhhhhhh!"23:16
Firebirdnot sure about the maemo part bt SDL, yes23:16
jaem_N810Firebird: the app uses rightclick events.  Any idea what the easiest way to provide that on the N810 would be?23:17
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divide_by_zeroSavior of the Universe!!!23:17
Firebirdchange it so it has to recognize a click and a hardware button at the same time would be my idea23:17
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jaem_N810makes sense23:17
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jaem_N810is that fairly straightforward if I RTFM?23:18
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mmu_screenqwerty12_N810: eh, need to replace it then ;)23:19
mmu_screenit's not been ported ?23:19
mmu_screenodd, it even works on iphone I heard23:19
mmu_screenand it's french technology ;)23:19
qwerty12_N810It has, but MPlayer still kicks its ass :p23:19
Firebirdjaem_N810, maybe something like "if(event->type == SDL_MOUSEBUTTONDOWN && event->key.keysym.sym == SDLK_F1)"23:19
qwerty12_N810mmu_screen: I must boycott it, then, in that case ;P23:19
jaem_N810Firebird: thanks!23:20
mmu_screenvlc is kinda slow and crashprone at least on BeOS due to ffmpeg being too sensitive abotu stack alignment, but at least it runs and plays anything23:20
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, do you use oo.o?23:28
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, koffice?23:30
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slonopotamusi c23:30
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