IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-06-22

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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, beatings I can do.01:04
GeneralAntillesBut not in real time in here.01:04
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xnt14~seen b-man1601:26
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 17h 27m 26s ago, saying: 'just for fun'.01:26
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xnt14hes late01:26
* xnt14 plays some warhawk on his ps301:26
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amr-is there another client besides xchat?02:33
amr-many channels becomes a problem quickly02:33
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b-man16~seen xnt1404:07
infobotxnt14 is currently on #maemo (10h 44m 42s). Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 2h 42m 22s, last said: 'hes late'.04:09
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prakshould the gps working seamlessly with maemo mapper when the operating system is updated on the n810?05:05
TobaI did an update to the latest and maemo mapper started working05:07
Tobaremember to backup your stuff first, just in caseb05:08
praki keep on having errors getting gps data05:08
prakit never worked for my n81005:08
Tobadidn't happen to me05:08
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Luke-Jr_GPS hasn't worked all week for me period05:14
Luke-Jr_maybe something with sattelites?05:14
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milhouseLuke-Jr: See and, specifically bug 3851 comment #9 - you might have stale GPS data05:34
milhouseGPS is very buggy in N810/Diablo, and isn't going to be fixed (at least not by Nokia). :(05:35
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Luke-Jr_milhouse: I know that better than anymore.05:46
Luke-Jr_milhouse: Stskeeps has volunteered to get a Nokia employee drunk for this cause.05:47
Luke-Jr_milhouse: anyhow, I don't think I can have stale data, as I have no data at all05:47
milhouseExcellent, even when drunk the quality of coding can't be any worse than what has been released so far... ;-)05:47
Luke-Jr_milhouse: my gpsdriver lacks persistent storage, afaik05:48
Luke-Jr_it could be related to 2.6.30 kernel, but I *think* I have worked around the problems introduced by that05:49
Luke-Jr_ooh, didn't know about /var/lib/gps/05:50
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RST38hmoo all07:32
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RST38hCIA seeks laid-off bankers in N.Y. recruitment drive  eeek08:00
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RST38hmoo johnx08:10
RST38hfinally somebody noticed:
johnxI asked a variation of this on LUG mailing list 10 years ago. It turns out there isn't actually one leader of all Linux that tells people what to do08:12
johnxI was shocked too08:12
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johnxI like that part: "...the free software community needs to consider..."08:14
johnx"Hey you random lot of people doing Z! I wish you would do Y instead."08:15
RST38hThat too, but the course toward more convoluted features nobody needs cannot be denied08:16
* RST38h still can't figure out who will need that "kde social desktop" stuff08:16
johnxAlso: if we asked users what their ideal desktop was back in the TWM days we'd be using TWM with user-selectable colors in the title bars08:16
RST38hjohnx: Yes, please =)08:16
johnxI think we just agreed to disagree :>08:17
RST38hI do think most people just want Windows though08:17
johnxbecause that's what they use08:17
johnxif you'll notice, it's not just that they want windows, it's that they want windows xp :D08:17
RST38hMore or less, yes08:18
johnxpeople resist change08:18
RST38hAlthough I guess there is some flexibility there08:18
johnxMS extended XP licensing through 201108:18
RST38hPeople probably woulldn't mind a bit different window decorations, slightly different task bar, etc08:18
RST38hBut unloading artificial crap like "social desktop" on them is kinda excessive08:19
Macerjohnx: lol08:19
Maceri figured by now the marketing nazis would have released xp under a different name08:20
Macerlike Windows Lite eXtreme08:20
johnxeh, if you don't constantly throw new things at users to see what sticks then yeah, we'll avoid 9 dead ends and 1 totally new paradigm08:20
johnxsorry, couldn't think of the non-bullshit word for paradigm08:21
Macerjohnx: that wouldnt allow them to sell a "major upgrade"08:21
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Macersnow leopard will cost like $30 because it is worthless08:22
johnxeh, I'll probably expense it for my work laptop08:22
johnxlooks like it has one or two nice tweaks08:22
Macerit is a leopard update that they are pawning off as being "new"08:22
Macerthe major thing it was supposed to have was pulled08:23
johnxthere was something about window management I saw and kinda liked, but yeah, I forgot what it was now08:23
Macer:) dropping the hfs+ garbage and use zfs08:23
Macerbut that fell through08:24
johnxhfs+ seems solid enough on the desktop08:24
Macerit sucks08:24
Macernot to mention it forks across network shares08:24
Macerand there is no way to stop it from doing it08:25
johnxfrom an architecture PoV it's skeery as hell, but it doesn't really seem to affect how people use their computers08:25
* johnx is firmly a Mac user, couldn't care less about the backend stuff08:25
johnxit's a black box to me :) as long as it works for me+my users I'm happy08:26
* RST38h could not figure out what to do with MacOSX. Had to resort to the terminal.08:26
johnxheh. right now my mac os x and linux desktops only differ in where I shove the dock-like thing08:26
Maceri want to install opensolaris on my mb08:26
Macerand get rid of osx08:27
johnxand that linux handles compositing in a more uniform manner08:27
johnx(vs mac os)08:27
Macerthe forking just drives me up the wall08:27
RST38hanyways, time to go to work08:27
Macerjohnx: the typical mac user will say "that stuff isnt necessary"08:27
johnxhave fun RST38h :)08:27
Macerlike a desktop cube08:28
Macerwhat a comp out08:28
johnxMacer, still have mac os x installed? close firefox (if open), click the firefox icon, switch to spaces before it launches08:28
* RST38h is burdened with management duties for the next 2 weeks. Can't get late. 08:28
johnxwhat happens?08:28
johnxRST38h, ugh, best of luck. but make sure you don't do too good of a job or they'll promote you08:29
RST38hjohnx: have to make sure I buy some vaseline first...08:29
RST38hjohnx: to make the experience less painful, you know...08:29
johnxRST38h, O_o;08:29
johnxMacer, yeah: doesn't handle compositing very well08:29
Macerwhy not?08:31
johnxI think it cheats somehow. the virtual desktops aren't as "real" as they are with compiz08:32
johnxbut you saw the firefox window come up full size over the middle of the desktops, right?08:32
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Maceri have to try to get opensolaris on it08:53
Macerif the wifi can adhoc then i am a happy camper08:53
johnxad-hoc wifi = pain no matter where you go08:53
Macernot in osx or win :)08:53
Maceri need it to tether my g108:54
johnxfor me the answer was "yes" and "I wouldn't know"08:54
Macerin linux it is a pain08:54
Macerbecause the lack of proper wifi drivers08:54
johnxonly place I ever saw it kinda work :)08:54
johnxthe N8x0 isn't a very good example of linux wifi drivers though08:54
Macerlinux on the macbook couldnt do it08:55
Macerbecause it had to use a wrapper08:55
johnxmac os x on a macbook wouldn't do it for me08:55
Macerwow serious?08:55
Maceron mine it just worked08:56
johnxyeah between two macbooks it was flakey as hell08:56
Macerflawless really08:56
Macergood spped.. no disconnects... the mb + osx + g1 + adhoc = good08:56
Macerspeed... wtf08:56
Maceri think i am having brain issues08:57
Maceri keep making awkward mistakes like that08:57
Macerah well.. bbl08:57
johnxheh. I read it as speed when I saw it, then had to re-read when you corrected yourself08:58
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johnxmorning thux09:11
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thuxjohnx: is it evening in your time zone now?09:12
johnxbut close to morning09:12
thuxthat late09:13
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Luke-Jr_who wants to play Freeciv || glob2?09:16
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* slonopotamus has fun with bin-to-hex conversion and character drawing :)09:30
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Stskeepshehe, text2screen?09:34
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slonopotamusi'm reversing bitmaps :)09:38
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slonopotamusdrawing with text2screen, then writing down bits and hex them :)09:38
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* thux doesn't get ra0 (rt2860) connect, had to use ndiswrapper with less signal10:05
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johnxbeat anyone with the management stick yet?10:33
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RST38hjohnx: not yet, but having an upper level bug review meeting in 20 minutes10:36
johnxfun fun10:37
johnxa *working* ARM chroot on an x86 machine still makes me grin like an idiot everytime I use it10:39
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RST38hjohnx: it is fragile like hell though10:48
johnxRST38h, which qemu are you using?10:49
RST38hjohnx: any qemu I ever used was fragile10:49
* RST38h especially liked qemu borking every time he tried opening a file requester10:50
johnxit's been working pretty well with obs/mer10:50
RST38hkinda useless with Maemo =(10:50
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johnx'fraid so10:51
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JaffaMorning, all11:02
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Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:02
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oespirithello florian12:02
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lbtX-Fade: ping...12:24
X-Fadelbt: pong12:24
lbthi... just wanted to chat about Mer hardware and garage autobuilder processes12:25
lbtshould they be tasks BTW?12:25
lbtoh and I meanr virtual hardware really :)12:26
X-Fadelbt: I talked to tekojo about it.12:26
X-Fadelbt: He agreed on the need etc, but had to see about budgets etc :)12:27
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lbtsounds reasonable :)12:27
lbtwhat I'd like to do is get a task together to spec things out12:28
lbtprovide a phase-able set of requirements from nothing to 4000 CPU build farm12:28
lbtOK, maybe less ;)12:28
lbtbut so we can present a list with incremental benefits12:28
lbtand then match budget and priorities12:29
X-FadeWell, a task proposal in the wiki would help.12:29
X-FadeWe can then pick that up as part of the sprints.12:29
lbtexactly.... I'm not sure how to go about this stuff12:29
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lbtso... shall I sketch something up and then we can flesh it out?12:29
X-FadeAlthough when talking about budgetting, planning is a bit harder ;)12:29
X-Fadelbt: Sure, that would be great.12:30
lbtideally I'd like to get a minimal vm....12:30
lbtno real cpu or functionality12:30
lbtbut somewhere we could use as a staging server12:30
lbtmore about a few Gb of disk and shell access than eg building12:31
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lbtI'm not expecting that to actually cost anything12:31
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Stskeepsthere's no free lunch12:32
lbtor fish ;)12:33
lbtand there's plenty of those in the sea12:33
X-Fadelbt: Well, each vm needs to managed, monitored, backup etc.. So there is a certain cost related to that ;)12:33
X-Fadelbt: But I'm sure it will be arranged.12:34
lbttrue. I was trying to find something that has relatively small incremental cost and offers benefits12:34
Stskeepseither way a simple spec of our intended usage wouldn't be bad12:35
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lbtI'm on the wiki already...12:35
Stskeepshopefully i'll get qemu arm stuff working later this week12:36
Stskeepsso we don't have to use qemu-system-arm for building images12:36
lbtI have some real work to do too12:36
lbtbut I will chase dl9pf to help him with the native-cross12:37
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qwerty12_N810I happen to name folders with the first thing I can think of.12:48
timelyN81Qwerty, did you see my complaints about debian package Description: lines?12:48
qwerty12_N810But, anyway, your locale switcher with CPA is to be found there.12:49
qwerty12_N810Yep, taken it into account.12:49
timelyN81They shouldn't end with punctuation12:49
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woglindehi lardman12:52
woglindehow is powervr stuff going?12:52
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lardmanwoglinde: I've been away on honeymoon, so no further than before I went ;)12:55
lardmanI've decoded something like 15 of the ~250 odd functions in the kernel module, but was holding off doing any more as I understand Ti/ImgTech are looking at releasing something official12:56
Stskeepswazd: regarding jornada idea - htc
Jaffaqgil has a COULD task in this sprint for having a plan with regards to the drivers12:57
Stskeepsthey are working on it actively afaik12:57
Stskeepswe discussed it in cph12:57
lardmanJaffa: do you have a link to the wiki page please?12:57
woglindelardman uh really?12:57
Jaffalardman: 9.06-14 on
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lardmanX-Fade: anyone worked out where my karma has leaked away to ? ;)12:59
lardmanwoglinde: uh bad or uh good?12:59
woglindelardman I wouldnt believe that they are releasing source code13:00
Stskeepslardman: your karma was divided with your wife at the time of marriage ;)13:00
lardmanreversing it will be a pita, the kernel module is pretty basic, the functionality resides on the user side in a lib13:00
lardmanwoglinde: not source afaiu, but something binary-blob like I guess13:00
lardmanStskeeps: well I'd have even less now then13:00
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woglindethey already did for omap313:00
woglinde*scratches head*13:01
Stskeepslardman: idea is open source kernel and closed library, AFAIK13:01
lardmanfair enough13:01
* lcuk waves13:01
lardmansounds fine, as long as it works :)13:02
lardmanhi lcuk13:02
woglindehi lcuk13:02
lcukhi guys13:02
lcuklardman, holly has half your karma now, remember oyu share everything13:02
lardmanI have 68 discussion karma, but have sent a few more emails than that13:03
lardmanand she's not having my n810!13:03
lardmannot even half!13:03
lcukyeah but some were drunken rants complaining about lack of wine :P13:03
lardmantrue ;)13:03
lcukheh, which half of n810 would you give her13:03
lcukkeyboard or screen13:03
lardmannah, left-hand side, the d-pad13:04
lcuk:D or she can have the gps13:04
woglindehm wine on the n810?13:04
glasswoglinde: remote desktop is more likely to be succesful route13:05
lcukwine is not an emulator, so unless windows works for arm its not practical13:05
lcukmmm pocket pc version..13:05
timelyN81If you can find an arm win32 binary...13:06
timelyN81Windows did support arm13:06
lcuki have n alpha testing package for the liqbase-playground that needs testing for blowinguppiness.13:06
timelyN81The issue isn't windows, it's the lack of applications13:06
lcukif someone could install these and tell me if its ok i would be most appreciative :$13:07
* lardman heads for a caffeine fix13:07
* lcuk does too13:07
* lbt orders coffee from wife13:07
lcukthe arm win bionary wouldnt help13:07
lcuktimelyN81, it has no . either, but i didnt change the other stuff yet13:08
woglindeglas??? i already ported nx and qtnx so what?13:08
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glasswoglinde: well then you're a smart cookie13:14
woglindeglass its uploaded in the devel-extra13:15
jukeylcuk: installation still works fine13:16
wazd <- more consistent ui13:16
wazdoh, wrong chanel :) whatever :)13:18
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lcukjukey still? have you installed these before lol13:21
jukeynot these :p13:22
lcuk:D well you have now, does it have an icon and can it be run from it13:23
jukeylcuk:  yes and yes13:23
jukeyand i can see the calendar and stuf around it and edit entries and so on :D13:24
lcukdoes it appear fast and smooth (it should if everything is working right)13:24
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lcukniiiiiiiiiiiice, right, ill push those to -devel.  thanks for reporting, people need this to get the next step done13:24
lcuki wonder if it will work in fremantle as well13:25
* lcuk ponders13:25
jukeylcuk: it's very fast imho.13:27
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lcukhopefully now the speed and feeling is retained as i add the required functionality in :)13:27
lcukand i manage to find and cure all the outstanding stability issues13:28
lcukhmmmmm extras autobuilder has a limitation.13:33
lcuki cannot upload both packages together because they are inter related13:33
lcukthe libary and the playground13:33
lcukif i do them together, and the library passes, when the playground is built it fails because  the library it can find isnt yet the latest one!13:33
lcukand hence wont have all functionality13:34
lcuki wonder if autobuilder could be made to look in its completed queue, so i can upload both halves at once13:34
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lcuki know webservers run things like php and stuff, but if i wanted to make use of functionality from libliqbase on a webapp (server side - converting sketches to pngs) would i need a dedicated custom server to do it13:41
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lardman~curse my Nokia 6300 for having really crap firmware13:48
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lardmanhmm, infobot has stopped responding to tildes?13:50
infobotwell, itt is the forums on ( )13:50
lardmanoh no, just some things then13:51
Macercapote is kind of strange13:53
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VDVsxinfobot lost some of the magic :(13:57
lcuk~lart lardman13:58
* infobot executes killall -HUP lardman13:58
lcuk~lart ~curse13:58
* infobot slaps ~curse upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh13:58
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Macerwhat the hell14:21
Macerpeople are talking to harper lee about her book and they dont know the name of it14:22
Macer"something about a bird...?"14:23
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* RST38h does not even know who harper lee is14:23
RST38his it a bird? =)14:24
Macerto kill a mockingbird14:24
Maceryou've never heard of it? :)14:24
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lcukMacer, i have, but i couldn't have told you who the author was14:29
* xnt14[server] wakes up14:30
xnt14[server]morning all :14:30
xnt14[server]crap, my spelling correction bot isn't working :P14:30
* xnt14[server] boots up his xps14:30
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RST38hMacer: ah, I have heard the name of the book of course but know knothign of the author14:32
* xnt14[server] is bored.....already14:33
xnt14oops wrong keyboard :P14:33
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lardmanhmm, Garage is pretty slow, or is it just me?14:38
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RST38hit's slow14:39
X-FadeOnly a load of 6. ;)14:39
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lcukummm the autobuilder isnt on the same server as garage is it :$14:44
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X-Fadelcuk: No14:45
lcukphew good, thought i had broked it14:45
X-Fadelcuk: although the assistant is.14:45
lcuki just pushed the playground through14:45
X-Fadelcuk: No, that is quite a normal load unfortunately.14:45
xnt14~seen penguinbait14:46
infobotpenguinbait <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 16h 45m 7s ago, saying: 'hola'.14:46
xnt142 days? :P14:46
lcukyeah he got eaten not long after that14:46
lcukvery messy, needed to mop up the chan and everythinhg14:47
xnt14is this outdated:
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lardmanVDVsx: I had a quick go with the code last night but was missing some of the Python libs, are these available as I couldn't find them (perhaps I had the wrong names)?14:47
xnt14    what does he mean by 43-7?14:49
* xnt14 wants his clone to sd system :P14:49
lardmansounds like a FIASCO image release number14:49
xnt14ok, ill look at my image I flashed with14:50
xnt14damn, its 43-7 :(14:50
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xnt14guys is this outdated?
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xnt14what should the partition be? ext2?14:52
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xnt14the cloned partition14:52
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xnt14why is it that irc is always a dead whenever I need confirmation of something :P14:58
RST38hLHC takes lead over N900!14:58
RST38hGo, LHC, go!14:58
lardmanxnt14: partition on the card should be ext2/315:00
xnt14lardman, thanks :)15:01
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RST38hX-Fade: May I file a bug report about the Download icon?15:11
VDVsxlardman, which ones ?15:12
X-FadeRST38h: Sure, I can always close it with WONTFIX :)15:12
X-FadeRST38h: But tell me, what about it?15:12
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RST38hX-Fade: Looks like penis.15:13
X-FadeRST38h: If you are Shrek,..15:13
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RST38hX-Fade: even scarier, after you mention it...15:13
RST38hX-Fade: I.e. either return the old icon or deuglify the new one15:14
lcukwhich icon rst15:14
X-FadeRST38h: But I think it is a little far fetched..15:14
X-FadeI guess that one.15:15
RST38hX-Fade: Well, I am not going to use exactly the same wording in the tracker :)15:16
RST38hX-Fade: But it is ugly, unfortunately.15:16
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X-FadeRST38h: Better icons, attached to the bug are always appreciated ;)15:17
lcukRST38h, if your penis is sharpened like that you have bigger problems.15:18
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mikkov_X-Fade: have you done some auto updating at downloads?15:21
X-Fademikkov_: Yes.15:22
mikkov_X-Fade: version numbers are wrong for bunch of apps15:22
X-Fademikkov_: Can you point to one?15:22
mikkov_version number is from fremantle-extras15:22
X-FadeHmm that is weird.15:23
X-FadeAs we don't check for fremantle atm.15:23
mikkov_hmm, actually vor has correct version15:23
mikkov_X-Fade: OK, they were wrong before after the first auto update, but the second update has changed them back15:25
RST38hlcuk: You mean, the color is right? =)15:25
RST38hX-Fade: ok15:25
X-Fademikkov_: Ah, so it was wrong when it was added?15:25
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mikkov_X-Fade: no, all of the apps which have "15:26
mikkov_"updated 2009-06-20 12:45 UTC" are in fremantle-extras15:26
X-Fademikkov_: Ah, I know what happened.15:27
X-Fademikkov_: The Packages file in the repository was corrupted then.15:27
lcukthere is no fremantle extras is there15:27
lcuki thought there was only extras-devel15:27
X-Fadelcuk: correct.15:27
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mikkov_yeah, I meant extras-devel15:28
lcukdoes downloads take versions from -devel stuff as well :o15:28
lcukie download counts etc15:28
X-Fadelcuk: No, only extras.15:28
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mikkov_anyway there was something weird going on (or mayve I was dreaming :)15:29
X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, the repository had some corruption issue in the index.15:30
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X-Fademikkov_: And the Downloads script runs against that index.15:30
xnt14ok g2g for now spanish exams15:30
Macerjust have to get my folding@home vbox going :)15:31
Macerand i'm off to the races15:31
jukeymost of the news are postet at least 2 times atm...15:31
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RST38hX-Fade: We can also ask wazd to make a decent item15:35
Macermy beast of a server is running nicer with stock opensolaris on it15:35
Maceri should try to find new cpus for it but i'm sure that would be impossible or expensive by now15:35
* Stskeeps is using opensolaris stock now too, in a vmdk15:36
Stskeepser, in virtualbox15:36
Stskeepsand then my media center in linux15:36
Stskeeps(xen would probably be saner..)15:36
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: have you gotten usb devices to work?15:39
timeless_mbpi'm trying to share some usb things to my vm's and it's not working15:39
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: not yet15:40
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Maceropteron 854s cost $50015:47
Macersingle core 2.8GHz for that much :)15:47
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: so. it seems i need to create a usb filter if i want windows to have access to usb things15:48
timeless_mbpbut now windows is trying to install things!15:48
Macerthey must be seriously fast to justify that much money15:48
Macera 290 costs $179 and has 2 cores . i don't understand15:49
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Maceri'm tempted to buy a couple of these to replace my 1.8GHz 265s15:50
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RST38hMacer: Different cache size?15:57
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MacerRST38h: dunno. stopped looking ;)16:06
Maceri really don't need new ones if they don't have amd-v16:06
Maceri will just have to build another server with a phenom or something i suppose... that can wait until i'm done building my rackmount stuff16:07
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Macerright now i'm testing out this folding@home shit in a vbox16:07
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Maceremory: 8191M phys mem, 309M free mem, 4095M total swap, 4095M free swap16:12
Macerwow.. that seems kind of like.. high usage16:12
Maceri gave 3G to vbox.. wonder where the rest went16:12
X-FadeMacer: No it doesn't.16:13
X-FadeThat is just filesystem cache.16:13
X-FadeWhich isn't counted in free.16:13
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andre__heja GAN800, does 1805 depend on 3845 or do you think that 1805 is just obsolete nowadays?16:13
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Macerin opensolaris? :)16:14
Maceri thought that was a linux thing16:15
Stskeepsprobably caching a lot yeah16:16
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GAN800andre__, wut??16:18
andre__GAN800, yay! :-)16:18
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GAN800andre__, depends, I think.16:20
GAN800Though probably better if they just link to the appropriate wiki page.16:21
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lcukRST38h, hows your calc engine coming on, or is that done for now16:59
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Stskeeps*** HOT MAEMO PORN (34242322b)16:59
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* lcuk would love to actually use the engine itself 16:59
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lcuk:O Stskeeps16:59
kjakdjim just joining...16:59
lcukwhy isnt that in my cache lol17:00
johnsqStskeeps: where? :)17:00
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lardmanhmm, /me sees he'll be in Berlin for the days before the summit17:23
Macerok. opensolaris ftw17:24
Maceralthough the integrated cifs kind of sucks :)17:24
GAN800lardman, I'm going to have to come kick your ass if you don't make it. :P17:24
lardmanGAN800: you going to be there?17:24
lardmanI should be fine, as ever another conference, but this time they don't overlap, one finishes the day before the other starts17:25
X-Fadelardman: We're going to kick GAN800's ass if he doesn't come ;)17:25
lardmanX-Fade: +1017:25
lardmanI'm sure my wife will be happy, nearly a whole week abroad17:25
lardmanand I mean happy as I guess she'll come along for the trips :)17:26
lardmanI'm amazed how much Psion Workabouts still cost17:27
lardmanas a random aside17:29
GAN800Planning on it.17:29
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lardmanglad to hear it :)17:29
lardmanwe'll have to sort out some chaps in red dresses with lances and weird helmets to greet you off the plane17:30
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GAN80022 hours of flying. Those planes better have WiFi.17:32
X-FadeGAN800: Uhm? You are taking the wrong way around the world ;)17:33
X-FadeGo east ;)17:33
X-FadeShould not be more than 9 orso?17:33
GAN800X-Fade, that's what it was when I checked last year17:35
X-FadeGAN800: According to wolfram at least :D17:35
GAN8002 connections17:35
lardmanyou should be able to fly klm direct I would have thought17:36
X-FadeGAN800: What airport would you fly from?17:36
VDVsxlardman, any low coast in uk that fly to amsterdam ?17:37
lardmanVDVsx: from which airport? I guess Easyjet flies there17:38
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lardmanRyanair doesn't fly to Amsterdam, which is good as Ryanair are crap17:39
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lardmaneasyjet flies from Bristol to Amsterdam, but as I'm going to have to fly to Berlin first I'm not sure what I'll do17:40
VDVsxlardman, I don't have major complains about ryanair17:40
lardmanoh well :)17:40
VDVsxI have transavia here, a dutch low coast17:41
X-FadeVDVsx: Goes to Rotterdam only?17:41
VDVsxX-Fade, nop17:41
VDVsxI flew to Amsterdam in Feb with transavia17:43
* aquatix generally takes the train17:44
aquatixit's about 25 minutes17:44
X-Fadeaquatix: I usually take the train too. Takes about 2 hours ;)17:45
* lardman wonders how long the train would take from Bath17:45
lardmanprobably as long from Bath to London as it would take on the other side17:45
X-Fadelardman: It can be done, I'm sure. But flying to Australia takes less time :)17:46
aquatixX-Fade: yeah, that's what you get from living in the middle of nowhere ;)17:47
X-Fadeaquatix: true17:47
VDVsxAmsterdam -> brussels 2.3h, the brussels airport is also a option17:47
X-FadeVDVsx: Ugh.17:47
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VDVsxabout 25 € the ticket (young discount :P)17:48
X-FadeVDVsx: It takes about 1 hour to fly from UK to Amsterdam. your route sounds inefficient.17:48
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VDVsxX-Fade, but for people from outside Europe, can be cheaper fly to Brussels17:49
X-FadeVDVsx: Sure.17:50
X-FadeAlthough that is a pain with bag etc.17:50
lardmanwell the Emperor should have his retainers with him so not a problem for him ;)17:51
lardmanhey GAN80017:51
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X-Fadelardman: I wonder if he has highlighting for the words: His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles17:53
coldbootI'm trying to build Maemo's Qt subversion revision 456, and I'm getting "lrelease-qt4: Command not found", anyone know why it's not building lrelease?17:53
lardmanX-Fade: I doubt he needs highlighting, just feels a disturbance in the Force when we take the mick (I can feel my throat tightening even now ;)17:54
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VDVsxwooow, a round trip to Amsterdam for 1200 € in second class :P, they should serve caviar or something like that, ehehe17:57
X-FadeVDVsx: For that amount your can really fly to australia easily ;)17:57
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VDVsxI think so, let me check, lol17:58
lardmanX-Fade: it's not too late, move the summit! :)17:58
X-FadeHi His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles17:58
GAN8001Piece of shir phone17:59
VDVsxX-Fade, with more 72 € I can fly to Sydney :)18:00
GAN8001X-Fade, TPA18:00
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X-FadeVDVsx: I can do it for under 900 ;)18:00
GAN800X-Fade, that's Jaffa now, by the way. ;)18:01
lardmanGAN800: we know he's just your puppet ;)18:01
VDVsxX-Fade, 29 hours,ouch18:01
lardmangot to run, bbl18:02
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wazdGAN800: <- Mer connection manager concept18:08
wazdGAN800: Sts told me you'll ruin this :)18:09
JaffaGAN800 has told me to point out that I'm *no-one's* puppet.18:11
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coldbootHas anyone successfully built Maemo qt4?18:12
woglindecoldboot I used the source deb18:14
woglindeand they build18:14
woglindebut better ask on the maemo qt mailinglist18:14
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woglindealoiso normaly anwsers really fasrt18:15
coldbootwoglinde: What package did you apt-get source?18:18
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coldbootwoglinde: What did you install to get md5sum?18:20
coldbootThere are a lot of essential packages missing from Maemo, and a lot of things missing from packages that are in Maemo.18:20
woglindecoldboot I normaly ignored that18:20
coldbootHow do you ignore it when you run apt-get source?18:21
coldbootah, it downloaded anyway18:21
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Macerok. all done (sort of)18:24
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Macerhopefully i can keep this thing going for a few years without touching it again18:24
Maceralthough i already see myself doing it in a few months :)18:24
Maceri still need a passive video card for it. i don't understand why this old pci s3 i have in a drawer won't work in it18:24
coldbootwoglinde: dpkg-buildpackage can't even patch properly.18:24
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woglindecoldboot aeh?18:25
coldbootwoglinde: Patch failing when running dpkg-buildpackage -b:
woglindehm try18:27
woglindefakeroot dpkg-buildpackage18:27
coldbootGetting fakeroot to work in sb2 was close to impossible.18:27
coldbootI'm logged in as root instead.18:27
woglindeah sb218:28
woglindenever tried to build it in sb218:28
woglindebut the erorr has nothing to do with it18:28
coldbootI don't see why it would make a difference in this case, but maybe it is.18:28
woglindeare you trying to build for mer?18:28
coldbootwoglinde: Nope18:28
coldbootJust trying to build qt4 so I can fix a bug in it.18:29
woglindedont know why the patch is missing18:29
woglindebut as I said write this to the qt-maemo mailinglist18:29
woglindeand antonio will answer18:29
coldbootHeh, I'm already talking to him about this stuff.18:29
coldbootDo you know where he is in the world?18:29
woglindebut you maybee find out when searching in the kde project18:30
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coldbootwoglinde: Got it, if you don't have md5sum it doesn't apply patches properly before you run dpkg-buildpackage.18:32
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coldbootSomeone should fix coreutils so it's got md5sum and all of the other missing stuff in it.18:32
coldbootIn sb2.18:32
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woglindecoldbott uh good to know18:34
coldbootIs scratchbox just a platform for building arm stuff that's not coupled with Maemo?18:35
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slonopotamusargh! i'm tired of  bitmaps calculations :)18:37
woglindecoldboot nope18:38
slonopotamusstskeeps, i added all letters from a to z :)18:38
woglindecrosscompilig enviroment too18:38
slonopotamusstskeeps, ~1h18:38
slonopotamusneed to automate it...18:39
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coldbootwoglinde: But is it associated with the Maemo project?18:42
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GAN800wazd, is this the connection manager or what you see when you tap the applet?18:49
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wazdGAN800: connection manager18:49
GAN800The actions column doesn't justify filling half the screen.18:49
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wazdGAN800: that was a bad idea, remaking it roght now :)18:51
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GAN800wazd, icons don't fit.18:56
GAN800Signal strength is a little candy-esque18:56
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GAN800I'd leave audio stuff for the audio applet, too.18:57
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infobotI herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power19:01
woglindecoldboot hm yes maemo seems the only real user of sb19:01
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GAN800Does Mauku support Quaiku?19:04
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slonopotamusspeak english, please :D19:05
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qwerty12_N810GAN800: the fremantle one will have support19:06
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GAN800bergie, where's my screenshot?19:08
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GAN800qwerty12, but I want it now.19:08
lardmanwhat's this?19:08
bergieGAN800: screenshot?19:08
RichiHGAN800: i made you a screenshot, but i eated it :(19:08
qwerty12_N810GAN800: the developer is putting fremantle first :(19:08
Robot101bergie: hey19:09
Robot101bergie: aren't you worried this social desktop stuff should be using XMPP for real-time stuff?19:09
bergieGAN800: regarding Mauku's Qaiku support... I've understood it is coming19:09
GAN800bergie, of the Midgard toolbar.19:10
bergieRobot101: XMPP would make a lot of sense, yes19:10
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bergieRobot101: I've spent most of today hacking on a XMPP bot anyway ;-)19:10
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bergieGAN800: ah, sorry... forgot completely about that. It seems the menu option is not there in latest Midgard LTS, but I'll try to dig the archives for it19:11
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Robot101bergie: also there's a load of new XML descriptions for stuff there /must/ be existing schemas for like contacts etc, and features already in XMPP for at least some of the things19:11
Avemy "dead n810" turned out to be just a dead battery, I found nice(?) replica batteries for 10 euros19:11
Robot101bergie: then some pubsub could probably cover the rest19:11
Avereal nokia one would've costed 60-70 euros, argh19:11
StskeepsAve: congrats:)19:11
AveI got two, one year warranty and all19:12
Aveso yaay19:12
bergieRobot101: fully agreed... the issue mostly is that many developers understand REST, but few understand XMPP19:12
Robot101bergie: I'm not convinced the developers who understand REST are dying to implement desktop social networking apps19:12
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Robot101bergie: I'm happy to concede the people who /are/ implementing social networking apps on the web are of course more familiar with REST, but that doesn't follow that it's the best way to bring it onto the desktop19:13
Robot101my NIH-o-meter went off the scale reading this stuff :(19:13
bergieRobot101: yep. As I've written a couple of times, I think Telepathy Tubes would be the right place to start with this stuff19:14
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xnt14ok im back from my exam :P, going to play my ps319:14
bergiesee for instance
lcukwe should just integrate IRC directly in ythe palm of your hand - always on command line auto updating and automatic text to speech so your irc pals can contact you from the depths of your pocket19:14
Robot101yes and no, if there's some lower-level XMPP stuff we'll expose it in Telepathy, it doesn't need to be tubes espscially, that's mostly focused at interactive apps rather than pushing events / notifications out to people19:14
Robot101we're considering adding some plugin hooks in Telepathy's XMPP backend so its easier to expose new XMPP protocol features for 3rd parties19:15
lcuksocket programming and servers are still king19:15
Robot101we have some Telepathy modifications which are specific for OLPC but not interesting to others19:15
GAN800bergie, the floaty one is broken in half of all browsers and basically obnoxious in the rest.19:15
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bergieGAN800: what browser are you talking about?19:16
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* lcuk draws a sketch of a cloud19:18
* lcuk pushes it to his wall19:18
GAN800bergie, anything WebKit or Gecko on PPC.19:19
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GAN800It also seems to break in new and interesting ways with every release.19:19
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bergieGAN800: found the toolbar:
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GAN800andre__, ping?19:50
bergieGAN800: sorry about the delay :-)19:50
GAN800bergie, hum, I was thinking more along the lines of the MediaWiki toolbar.19:50
GAN800No worries19:50
bergieGAN800: you mean something more "in-page"?19:51
andre__GAN800, pongo19:53
GAN800Make all of the various apps match as much as possible.19:53
bergiewe have that too, but it'd require a bit tweaking with the style as there isn't really a place for it right now19:53
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GAN800andre__, how's tomorrow look for you for theming? I may be able to take off.19:53
bergieon the midgard site we have quite a lot of other stuff in the sidebar, latest news headlines and whatnot19:53
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andre__GAN800, seen testzilla?19:54
andre__yeah, i'm fine with that19:54
GAN800Yeah, is that from my patches?19:55
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andre__not really. more like one evening of basic CSS hacking here :)19:56
andre__(did you hack any CSS? if so I might have missed an email)19:56
GAN800Nope, but you should only need the CSS.20:00
andre__okay. because this stuff is custom. looks like i should take another look into that20:01
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GAN800andre__, the only work we should need to do is in the templates.20:04
andre__hmm. maybe i take a look later today. anyway, let's see tomorrow :)20:05
GAN800andre__, well, see how my patches apply?20:07
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andre__your email from May 25 has one patch attached20:08
andre__for banner, and footer20:08
andre__maybe i miss something?20:08
GAN800Patch, patches.20:08
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GAN800Nope, that's it.20:09
GAN800I think it should get us started, though.20:09
andre__okay. i remember problems when just changing the classes of the divs as in the patch20:09
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GAN800I suck at working by guesswork. ;)20:10
andre__heh. yeah, i can imagine it sucks.20:12
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GAN800So I should be able to fix a live thing up more easily.20:14
GAN800Short of installing my own instance here, pounding out templates isn't quite as straightforward as HTML. ;)20:14
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timeless_mbpwazd: the word 'selected' in is superfluous20:18
timeless_mbpwazd: there should be a visible break between the bottom two "buttons"20:19
timeless_mbpand if you're unlikely to have more than 3 actions20:19
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timeless_mbpcould you please consider multiple columns for connections?20:19
timeless_mbpbecause i usually have >100 connections20:19
timeless_mbpso being only able to see 5 at a time is painful20:19
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timeless_mbpnote that the maemo5 ui style would have the actions be part of the "menu"20:20
timeless_mbp(whatever a menu is)20:20
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wazdtimeless_mbp: thanks for the feedback. >100 connections is a really hardcore scenario :D20:30
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timeless_mbpwazd: it isn't20:31
timeless_mbpespecially the way our device is going to work20:31
timeless_mbpour device intends to be promiscuous20:31
timeless_mbpall it takes is a minimal amount of travel20:31
timeless_mbpi have devices to prove it20:31
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X-Fadewazd: When in Nokia's hallways you can easily see 100 APs at the same time ;)20:33
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wazdI don't think that 5 or 6 items on the screen would not make any difference when you have 100 APs :)20:36
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wazdI think*20:36
X-Fadewazd: Heh, no :)20:36
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X-FadeAlthough, that is 20% less scrolling..20:37
timeless_mbpwazd: the difference between 10 screens and 20 is significant20:37
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wazdX-Fade: but in the same time, items are 20% harder to tap :)20:38
timeless_mbpwazd: no20:39
timeless_mbpnot if you use two columns where you're currently wasting one20:39
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wazdtimeless_mbp: no, two coloumns is a good idea, I should consider it20:40
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* GAN800 wonders if the Fremantle applet is going to be a giant adv-backlight ripoff.20:46
timeless_mbpGAN800: doubtful20:46
qwerty12_N810GAN800: that could only be a good thing :)20:46
GAN800qwerty12, except it's closed source.20:46
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qwerty12_N810Hmm, yeah, fair point20:46
GAN800In which case they should've just adopted the ab codebase.20:47
timeless_mbpGAN800: if it's a complete ripoff, then adv-backlight is a drop in replacement :)20:47
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timeless_mbpwazd: also note that i'd like to have a search feature20:47
timeless_mbpand while you're designing such a thing, it'd be nice to be able to GeoTag and Comment networks20:47
GAN800timeless_mbp, wasted time and effort that should be combined.20:47
GAN800That's what I was going to say earlier.20:48
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GAN800With GPS and cellular positioning some sort of geolocation for WiFi would be nice.20:48
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timeless_mbpanything else i can poke?20:54
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Macertorrent is stuck at 99.99%20:58
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GAN800Stskeeps, where are we going to find our GTK hackers?21:06
timeless_mbpi'd like to share some pictures:
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Makes sense :)21:12
timeless_mbpso what's it doing?21:12
timeless_mbpand how do i find out what maps i lost?21:12
timeless_mbpsince afaict, it has helpfully deleted *All* of my maps21:12
timeless_mbpw/o letting me know what maps i had21:12
timeless_mbpand btw, this was a *mandatory* step21:12
timeless_mbpbefore i could see what data was on my device21:12
timeless_mbpoh, and also... the map app doesn't fit on my screen :)21:12
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timeless_mbpin case people are planning to design a map loader ui21:15
timeless_mbpplease do not consider copying anything you see here21:15
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timeless_mbpe.g. "maps data" should be "map data"21:15
timeless_mbpshowing 3.0 GB above -3056.6 MB is not logical21:15
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timeless_mbpdefaulting to a window size that doesn't fit on the screen is stupid21:15
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timeless_mbpoh, and in case you ever consider designing something with a timeout21:17
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timeless_mbpnever write "Expiry Date" in professional products. especially given that "Expiration Date" fits21:17
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timeless_mbpbtw, in case you're curious, there's no hover support for those buttons21:21
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timeless_mbpi.e. you can't figure out what they mean by using your mouse (unless you click on them and then examine some results elsewhere)21:22
timeless_mbpoh and in case people are curious, i'm just playing w/ my n81 and handing out sage UI advice, this has nothing to do with fremantle or mer21:23
timeless_mbpbut please don't ever consider doing anything nokia did in their windows apps in anything you work on :)21:24
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timeless_mbpoh and ... you shouldn't write "1 hours 1 minutes ..."21:39
timeless_mbpor "1 drives"21:40
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timeless_mbpoh.... btw...21:48
timeless_mbpoperating systems have this cool concept "multitasking"21:48
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timeless_mbpwhich means that while you're writing "california" to a phone, you could be downloading "maryland"21:49
timeless_mbpunless of course, you're the nokia map loader21:49
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tibobI'm trying to install autoconf from maemo sdk (diablo) on my n810 buy dependencies seam to be wrong (it would deinstall a lot of essential packages). Am I doing something wrong ?22:39
timeless_mbptibob: you're trying to install stuff from the sdk22:40
timeless_mbpso, 'yes', i think that's wrong :)22:40
xnt14autoconf? from the sdk?22:40
xnt14^^^ timeless gave you the answer :P22:41
tibobtimeless - okay, so if the sdk repository is not aimed for the devices, do you know a repository with autoconf and so on for the device (if not, I will have to make my own one)22:41
timeless_mbpum, i know there are a couple of repository search tools22:41
timeless_mbpand i know that we need more repositories like we need holes in our heads22:42
timeless_mbpand my head aches22:42
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: autoconf from sdk will -bomb- on tablet22:44
Stskeepssorry :P22:45
tibobStskeeps: yes, i saw that :-)22:45
Stskeepsas in, it won't run :P22:45
timeless_mbpStskeeps: how do i update my mer :)22:45
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: which one of them?22:45
timeless_mbpi only keep one :)22:45
timeless_mbpi think i'm @0.1422:45
lbttimeless_mbp: we're not that fast ;) 0.14 is latest22:47
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timeless_mbplbt: well.. i want newer packages :)22:47
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johnsqbuild them!22:47
timeless_mbpDownloading: Norge (7/21)22:47
tibobtimeless, Stskeeps - thank you, I will compile my own packages22:47
lbtshiney syndrome....22:47
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timeless_mbptibob: probably not the proper recourse, but...22:48
lbttimeless_mbp: we just made a :Testing if you want to burn yourself....22:48
tibobtimeless - I'll try to set up a repository for other geeks like who want to code directly on the tablet...22:49
tibobone rpository more... yeah :-)22:49
lbttibob: Diablo?22:49
tiboblbt - yes22:49
johnsqI have installed gentoo todo this.22:49
lbtwhy not run Mer?22:49
lbtapt-get install * will work22:49
tiboblbt - why shoult I not run mer ? ;-)22:50
lbtthere are no reasons that you shouldn't not run Mer22:50
tiboblbt - I ran it in virtualbox, looks promising22:50
tibobOK, I'll try 0.14 now22:50
timeless_mbplbt: is there stuff there fuel there?22:50
lbtthen you have apt-get install autoconf gcc22:51
timeless_mbpoh wow, generator fail22:51
timeless_mbpsp3000: ENEEDFUD22:51
timeless_mbpStskeeps: did i get you that repo?22:52
lbttimeless_mbp: have you had too much sugar?22:52
sneakretIs there really no OBEX support in Diablo?22:52
timeless_mbplbt: haven't eaten since maybe 1pm, it's 11pm22:52
timeless_mbplbt: anyway, is there some fuel in Testing i can burn?22:52
Stskeepslet me just check if Testing is built yet22:52
zek152is there a way to connect to hidden wireless networks that use wpa?22:52
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: you can probably change Stable to Testing in your apt/sources.list.d/mer.list22:53
Stskeepsand apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade22:53
Stskeepsno guarantees it'll work22:53
timeless_mbpStskeeps: yeah did that22:53
timeless_mbpit seems to do something22:53
Stskeepsi didnt test it yet22:53
* timeless_mbp should have created a virtualbox rollback point22:54
timeless_mbpzek152: hidden networks, sure22:54
timeless_mbpwpa um... probably22:54
* timeless_mbp hates acronyms22:54
Stskeepsa lump sum pay out of £500,000.00 GBP(Five Hundred Thousand GBP)'22:54
timeless_mbpspam in your clipboard?22:54
sneakretzek152, I connect to a hidden network using WPA all the time, I think.22:54
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yeah, 'We are pleased to inform you of the result of the Nokia Promotions Program'22:55
lbthe's selling Mer!!!!22:55
lcukcan i have a pint of mer please22:55
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lbtat those prices?22:55
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: hey, the theme picker doesn't crash anymore!22:56
zek152   .  Is a link to the instructions for using winxp to get onto the network I am trying to connect to.  How would i go about getting on it?22:56
zek152Any help would be much appreaciated22:56
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I know :P22:56
lcuki would guess you could get on network by using winxp22:56
timeless_mbpglad to see it :)22:56
qwerty12_N810fixed the stupid bugs I left in it :)22:57
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: when do i get the locale picker?22:57
sneakretIf I have a desktop machine running Windows and want to get files to it via bluetooth, am I out of luck?22:57
lbtmulti-touch X extensions...22:57
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johnsqsneakret: bluetooth network than samba share22:57
timeless_mbpjohnsq =~ s/than/then/22:58
sneakretjohnsq: The bluetooth network part is the problem.22:58
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: it's there, in that folder. I don't have the time to upload it to obs, perhaps you may be able to do so? :)22:58
timeless_mbpnah :)22:58
lcuklbt kewl22:58
timeless_mbpdid you get art for it ? :)22:58
qwerty12_N810It has a plain blue flag in the control panel :P22:59
sneakretCan you point me at information on getting bluetooth networking going? Once that's solved, there are many protocols to choose from.22:59
qwerty12_N810(sdk icons)22:59
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: that'll do22:59
sneakretI grabbed bluetooth-pan, but it seemed to want to talk to my modem. Maybe there's a way to change that...23:00
infobotsneakret meant: I grabbed bluetooth-pan, but it seemed to want to talk to my phone. Maybe there's a way to change that...23:00
sneakretUh... thanks infobot.23:00
timeless_mbpkonttori__: ukmp doesn't work on Mer :(~23:01
konttori__which version?23:01
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timeless_mbp1.90.6 ?23:02
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zek152I figured out how to get on the network.  Nokia did a good job with the nokia n810.  at this campus it takes a lot of work for people with linux to connect to the wireless and this device didnt need any additional files or programs!23:05
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sneakretzek152: Yeah, I've had great luck with the wifi support too. Not so great with bluetooth though. :(23:06
tiboblbt - are mer upgrades done by apt-get update/dist-upgrade or by reinstalling mer ?23:07
Stskeepsdepends on how much we fuck it up23:07
lbttarget  is apt-get23:07
zek152sneakret, no? well i guess thats not a problem for me since my next 3 years will be at this university where i will have internet almost anywhere.  and i dont have the data plan to use my phone as a modem23:07
lbttibob: from that PoV Mer will essentially be a Ubuntu/Debian install23:08
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suihkulokkisneakret: n810 supports bluetooth internet over DUN, which vast majority of phones support23:08
tiboblbt - hmm I don't get it, but I should read more documentation. don't bother for now, thanks ;-)23:09
* xnt14 is away: gaming23:10
timeless_mbpwhich reminds me23:10
timeless_mbpi still need to figure out the vbox icon stuff23:10
timeless_mbpStskeeps: don't suppose you ever figured out how to add a virtualbox OS icon? :)23:14
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: can't say i do23:14
tiboblbt - yes, I'm already reading it, thanks ;-)23:16
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johnsqwau infrared has 8m range.23:18
timeless_mbpStskeeps: it seems like it's built into the Qt code :(23:18
Stskeeps.. infrared?23:18
johnsqStskeeps: two diods at the audio connector23:19
Stskeepswhich device are we speaking of? :P23:19
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johnsqStskeeps: at the end, n810 with selfmade IR transmitter.23:20
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timeless_mbp5211     /* Fill in OS type icon dictionary. */23:21
timeless_mbp5212     static const char *kOSTypeIcons [][2] =23:21
* timeless_mbp grumbles23:21
timeless_mbpso unfriendly23:21
sneakretjohnsq: Have you set up a bluetooth network between a Windows system and a NIT? I read that page and the bluetooth PAN page before I came here and asked about it.23:22
sneakretUnfortunately those pages don't seem to contain much actual information.23:22
lcukjohnsq, thats very cool and specific writup for 810 users :) post it in if you havent already :)23:22
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johnsqlcuk: I have no account there.23:23
johnsqsneakret: I started but than used usb network.23:23
lcukmake one :) you're hacking will be welcomed :)23:23
sneakretYeah. I might end up doing that too. :)23:23
sneakretbut bluetooth would definitely be more convenient23:24
sneakretAny idea what sort of removable flash memory the new NIT is gonna take? I was disappointed to lose support for SD cards when I went from the N800 to the N810.23:24
johnsqsneakret: my problem was the new bluetooth stack on linux bluez 4.xx23:25
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timeless_mbpsneakret: on average, we try to share components w/ other parts of Nokia23:25
timeless_mbpit reduces cost per component23:25
johnsqlcuk: it should work with n8x0 also, it also runs on my laptop.23:25
lcukyeah i read the article last week23:25
timeless_mbpwhich means you should be able to get a good guess by looking to see what other nokia products include23:25
lcukexcellent that someone followed it through :)23:25
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: it shows when watching videos on the N8x0 :)23:26
timeless_mbpif most nokia products included 5 1/4" floppy drives, we would too :)23:26
sneakrettimeless_mbp: That's understandable, but doesn't directly answer my question.23:26
timeless_mbpsneakret: obviously i can't answer it :)23:26
sneakretOK. :)23:26
timeless_mbpbut i love offering useless perls of wisdom :)23:26
timeless_mbpcommon sense is quite valuable23:26
timeless_mbpand sadly very uncommon23:27
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: i didn't say i like the people who do purchasing :)23:27
timeless_mbphistorically we haven't had any access to them, that changed this month23:27
timeless_mbpbut that obviously couldn't affect a product that was already in the pipeline23:27
lbtI think they should use AA batteries23:28
lcuksage idea23:28
lbtdon't laugh :(23:28
lbtor maybe a battery pack :
lcuksneakret, always available, you could even put charging circuit directly in device still with no change23:28
sneakretThe N800 is thinner than AA batteries' diameter. I like it that way.23:28
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lcukthe 810 at least is23:29
lcuki think you could get em in 80023:29
lbtwouldn't die after a couple of days and I'd have spares in my UPS :D23:29
sneakreter... I meant N810.23:29
jaskause a rtg?:)23:29
lcukok, buttoncells!23:29
sneakretThe N800 could actually hold AA batteries, I guess.23:29
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sneakretYeah. 2016! I can get those cheap! :)23:30
lcukjaska, i would happily carry an rtg device if they could be sold in correct form factor23:30
jaskaditto :)23:30
lcukfuelcells powered by booze are quite good23:31
GAN8001lbt, cylinders are space-inefficient here.23:31
lcukand useful in stressful situations23:31
lbtput them at the edges and have pillar architecture...23:31
b-man16a whole new definition to dui's23:31
lcuksod that, proper rollout scroll type23:31
lbtRoman-esque look23:31
lcukuse the batteries themselves as support23:31
lbtyeah, rollable displays23:31
sneakretI wonder if booze cells would violate open container laws. :)23:32
lcukStskeeps has a proptype ;)23:32
lcuksneakret, only if its open23:32
lcukquick, cops, put the lid on and run memstresss23:32
Macergoing buck wild in iran and north korea huh?23:32
sneakretWhere I live, I think "open" means "does not have the original seal"23:33
lcukmmm i must remember to give the nokia more of my booze23:33
sneakretso if you open a bottle of wine then put the cork back in, it's still an open container23:33
lcuksneakret, what it if ran on butane gas then23:34
Macernew tobacco bill :)23:34
lcukrefillable like a lighter23:34
lcukfrom a pressurized can23:34
sneakretWell, I was hoping booze cells would be a loophole for that law. :)23:34
Macerwow.. obama going after big tobacco23:34
sneakret"Officer, it's just to power my pocket death ray. Honest!"23:34
lcukthey allow cops to run for 8hours23:34
sneakretButane powered NIT... awesome.23:35
lcuksneakret, you cannot carry an open container, but you can carry a truck battery laden with highly corrosive acid..23:35
b-man16~burn his n80023:35
lcukquick, put more coals on the n810, the screen is dimming23:35
sneakretWhere can I read the latest public info on the next NIT?23:36
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* sneakret re-enters consumer mode.23:36
lcuki assume thats latest23:36
sneakretHmm... that's the software. What about the hardware?23:37
lcuklbt, did you save johnx's post about the proto device23:37
lcukafter we came back form cph23:37
lbtin talk?23:37
infobotrx-51 is, like,
sneakretI'm sure the software blog changes much more often and will be more interesting to follow, but I also want to drool over the hardware.23:38
lcukjohnx gave a really nice overview of the prototype hardware we played with last month in copenhagen23:39
sneakretThe FM transmitter will probably mean I'll have to buy one for my wife too.23:41
lcukdoes she read tech pages?23:41
sneakretNo, but she's bound to see me use that feature.23:42
lcuknahhh dont give the game away23:42
lcukif your favorite music just happens to invade the radio everytiem you are in the care23:42
sneakretI'd be thrilled to get her one. :)23:42
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lcukits just a lucky coincidence23:42
lcuk:D then good23:42
sneakretI'll gladly reward Nokia for a good set of features by buying more.23:42
lcukthats johnx's post23:43
sneakretIt's a good post. :)23:43
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sneakretI'm looking forward to mypaint (or something similar) on the new device. :)23:48
lcuk:) im lookin forward to gettin liqbase back into proper shape :)23:49
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sneakretMy daughter likes liqbase. :)23:50
lcukits getting even better now as well :)23:52
lcukand my son spends hours there23:52
lcukone of the biggest problems with original was tagging and categorizing stuff23:52
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lcukso jacobs things stay together23:52
lcuki saw one of the key elements of the new framework working today :)23:52
tibobn8 all23:52
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lcuki was sketching on one device and seeing results immediately live on the other23:52
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oespirit|awaylcuk: thats really awesome :)23:53
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Robot101lcuk: tubes? :)23:54
lcukoespirit, yeah tis - its complete mockup right now (sshfs) but when its live properly it will just talk to a web service23:54
sneakretlcuk: Oh, that'll be a HUGE hit at my house. We have an N800 and N810.23:54
lcukand be visible on proper webpage to non nokia users23:54
lcuksneakret, :) its a defined goal to make it run as well as possible on n8x0 devices :)23:55
sneakretWeb service seems like a lot of overhead.23:55
lcukits not :)23:55
lcukjust http upload23:55
timeless_mbpweb services are cheap actually23:55
lcukand the stuff is just for families anyway - the calendar is hand written23:55
lcukjust like the one on the wall in your kitchen23:55
sneakretYeah, I hadn't thought of streaming the data that way.23:55
lcukthe sketches are very lightweight23:55
oespiritlcuk: At my univ, we have often discussed how awesome it would be to have a collaborative sketchpad where people across networks can scribble on - we have lustfully wished for it while discussing circuits /math stuff etc on chat/irc.23:56
sneakretI was thinking in terms of separate web service calls for each operation.23:56
lcukoespirit, :) yes23:56
oespiritlcuk: this thing will really rock for students like us23:56
lcuksketch chat is another possiblity23:56
lcukwith streaming half sized chat up one side23:56
lcukand other half for responses23:56
lcukthe best part about liqbase is because its built from the smallest lightest components it should run on any spec machine23:57
Robot101lcuk: couldn't you use telepathy to send the sketches around to participants of a group chat for example?23:57
Robot101this could be some nice maemo / sugar cross-over23:57
lcuki could, but telepathy is hard23:57
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lcukive never setup any im account on device23:57
oespiritlcuk: :)23:57
lcukbut i run mauku23:57
lcukand other services similar23:57
lcukthey just talk to website23:58
lcukit works23:58
lcukits scalable23:58
lcukand its open to other users who dont have im client23:58
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lcuki wanna take a pic with camera, scribble on the back as a postcard "hi mum, i saw this and thought of you"23:58
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lcukbut she would never have an IM account23:59
Robot101right, but there are different use-cases like what oespirit explains, if you have people who are doing real-time discussions like chat/voip, and you want to add a whiteboard feature there23:59
lcukshe goes on the web tho and has email23:59
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lcukeven with web23:59

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