IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-06-06

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mib_9fs00mHI ROOM00:23
JaffaHello mib_9fs00m00:23
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mib_9fs00mdoes anyone know if the n810 will have hardware accleration, ever !00:24
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: depends on for what00:24
jonrafkindhas anyone set up scratchbox to work with maemo? when I run I get errors about missing files00:25
mib_9fs00mfor web browser, and watching vidoes00:25
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: there is no such thing as hardware accelerated browsers00:25
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luke-jrand I'm pretty sure video is already as accelerated as the hardware supports00:25
mib_9fs00mofcourse there is, look at the iphone00:26
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: what about iCrapPhone00:26
luke-jrit has a browser, yes, but not accelerated in any way AFAIK00:26
mib_9fs00mnokia have disabled the power VR chip00:26
luke-jrbrowsers are inherently software00:26
luke-jrPowerVR has nothing to do with browsers00:26
luke-jrnor is it disabled, just not supported by Linux00:26
mib_9fs00mhave you read the forums00:27
Jaffamib_9fs00m: The iPhone uses h/w acceleration for zooming *effects* but it's not core to the browser00:27
mib_9fs00mcome on, you beed hardware accel, to have nice user experince00:27
Jaffamib_9fs00m: As luke-jr says, it's not been disabled - it's just not got any drivers (subtle difference ;-))00:27
mib_9fs00mn810 sucks00:28
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: yes, it does, but not due to lack of 3D00:28
luke-jrN810 never advertised 3D00:28
luke-jrnobody has any reason to expect it00:28
Jaffamib_9fs00m: The next device has got working 3D accel00:28
luke-jrN810's suck comes from lack of GPS and a crappy keyboard ;)00:28
mib_9fs00mwhy it always the next device, this chip can support 3d00:28
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: hire someone to write a driver00:29
Jaffamib_9fs00m: See (OTTOMH) and its "Talk:" page00:29
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mib_9fs00mnokia wont relase the hardware00:29
lcukmib_9fs00m, i beg to differ, the n810 is a fucking shit hot super machine!  and my liqbase proves its no slouch00:29
mib_9fs00mits locked00:29
JaffaNokia can't release the drivers00:29
mib_9fs00moh hi lcuk00:29
luke-jrJaffa: if the drivers exist, Nokia could00:30
luke-jrGPL license guarantees that right00:30
Jaffaluke-jr: Not in a GPL-compatible way they can't00:30
Jaffa(and it's unstable IIRC)00:30
luke-jrok, correction, if Nokia got drivers from TI00:30
mib_9fs00mdoes anyone in the UK want brandnew n810, for 80 pounds00:31
luke-jrI suppose if Nokia wrote them under NDA, there's a problem00:31
mib_9fs00mi used it 2 times00:31
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I'll take it for 50 USD :þ00:31
lcukyeah give me £80 and ill take it off your hands00:31
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I'll let you use my patent if you want to buy a SmartQ ;)00:31
mib_9fs00mim selling it for 80gbp, this device is really crap00:32
luke-jrit's not worth 80gbp00:32
mib_9fs00mi hate it00:32
luke-jroh, GBP is worth less than I thought now00:32
luke-jrhum, 128 USD not too bad00:32
luke-jrbut I'd rather get a SmartQ at this point00:32
mib_9fs00mim never buying nokia again00:33
lcukmib_9fs00m, so whats your wet dream then, what device manages to capture your attention more00:33
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I will only consider it after careful review00:33
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lcukok, can you buy one now?00:33
luke-jreg, building my own firmware from scratch sources00:33
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: Pandora isn't any better, last I heard00:33
Jaffaluke-jr: I've heard poor things about the performance on scrolling, so it's not as much of a step-up as you'd think :(00:33
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luke-jrJaffa: it's not the hardware, it's because it's open00:34
mib_9fs00mn810 is the worst device ive seen in along time00:34
lcukmib_9fs00m, what do you like about the pandora - last i heard it had kind of a bland experience00:34
Jaffamib_9fs00m: Pandora - if it evers ships - may well have better hardware (it *is* 3 years later), but the s/w will be ropey unless you just want to play games00:34
luke-jrJaffa: if I could get GPS usable, I would probably be decently satisfied with my N810 for its generation00:35
Jaffaluke-jr: Unless it's a video bandwidth issue00:35
luke-jrheh, N810 factory software sucks too, big deal00:35
mib_9fs00myes but it will be devolped. to high standard hopefully00:35
luke-jrJaffa: what does video bandwidht have to do with it?00:35
mib_9fs00mlol, n810 sucks, period00:35
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* luke-jr is not interested in factory software, just wants to run a normal OS (Gentoo)00:36
Jaffaluke-jr: Mine's not too bad now; it's just a case of remembering to enable it before I need it and ensuring supld's not crashed00:36
mib_9fs00mnokia are the fucking piss out of us00:36
Jaffaluke-jr: OOTB Maemo doesn't suck too much (under the covers, anyway) - lots of work on power mgmt00:36
luke-jrJaffa: I'm at ~12 hours TTFF right now00:37
JaffaNot that it's always good enough00:37
Jaffaluke-jr: Using A-GPS?00:37
luke-jrAGPS doesn't work with hacked gpsdriver00:37
Stskeepsluke-jr doesn't believe in AGPS because it uses gconf00:37
luke-jrand unhacked gpsdriver is screwed up too much to work on anything but stupid Maemo00:37
* Jaffa was getting ~30s on holiday last month00:37
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mib_9fs00mMaemo is pile of crap too00:37
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: like I said, get a SmartQ and use my patent with it:)00:37
Jaffaluke-jr: Right, so you break the s/w and then blame the GPS. Hmm...00:37
luke-jrJaffa: no, I didn't break anything00:38
luke-jrthe s/w is broken00:38
luke-jrit won't even RUN without the hacks00:38
mib_9fs00mthis device is seriously rubbish00:38
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: do you see my SmartQ suggestion?00:38
Stskeepsdonate to someone who can actually use it00:38
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Jaffamib_9fs00m: If you just want to troll, perhaps you could redirect to /dev/null?00:39
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: actually, I'll donate to a fund to have your N810 donated to a serious kernel developer00:39
mib_9fs00mwhat about my 200gbp00:39
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: you paid 200gbp? ripof00:39
lcukwhat comparable product could you purchase right now would satisfy you00:40
tank-manyou paid that much recently ?00:40
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I'll donate 20gbp to have your N810 go to a serious kernel dev00:40
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: find a few more people willing to do the same ☺00:40
Jaffamib_9fs00m: Send it back to the retailer if you bought it online <14 days ago (Distance Selling Regulations 2000)00:40
mib_9fs00miphone, atleast it has 3d hardware enabled, and everyhing else, the omap was designed to do00:41
luke-jractually, maybe I should be petitioning Nokia to donate one to a kernel dev00:41
lcukyes, are you a developer?00:41
Jaffaluke-jr: Loads of kernel devs got 770s, N800s and N810s (or were at least offered)00:41
lcukdo you use linux and open source methods to build with normally, or are you an objective c kinda guy00:41
JaffaAlan Cox had one, for example00:42
luke-jrJaffa: then why doesn't it work? :/00:42
luke-jrJaffa: Linux-OMAP on N810 is unusable00:42
mib_9fs00mlcuk, do you know anything about the 3d hardware in the n81000:42
luke-jrJaffa: the keyboard especially is screwed00:42
lcukno but i really dont think it needs it to have an enjoyable user experience00:43
mib_9fs00mhow can you say that,00:43
Jaffaluke-jr: That's demonstrably false, since I'm using it right now ;-)00:43
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luke-jrJaffa: you are? how?00:43
lcukat this point i would be happy saying its about as fast as it can be00:43
luke-jrJaffa: I posted to the ML about it and all I got was another guy confirming00:43
lcukusing the powervr would at best give an rgb image00:43
mib_9fs00mlcuk, you are wrong00:43
JaffaSub-optimal, perhaps; but Nokia are in the top 10 kernel contributors (according to LWN analysis)00:43
lcukthat would suffer from tearing00:44
lcukliqbase does not00:44
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luke-jrJaffa: well, I'm building rc8 now, maybe it was fixed recently?00:44
luke-jrthough I didn't see it in shortlog00:44
Jaffaluke-jr: Maemo's based on Linux-OMAP; or do you mean the current HEAD?00:44
lcukso best case scenario would be a lower resolution RGB mode going over the bus etc, but still around 20% more bandwidth than mine00:44
mib_9fs00mluck can you devolp are driver,00:45
luke-jrJaffa: current HEAD00:45
luke-jrJaffa: Maemo's kernel is 3 years old or so00:45
Jaffaluke-jr: Loads of OMAP2 support was removed IIRC00:45
luke-jrwhy the heck would they remove it?00:45
mib_9fs00mliqbase is really impressive,00:45
Jaffaluke-jr: Ask the linux-omap maintainer?00:46
luke-jrJaffa: anyhow, the drivers are there, just broken00:46
mib_9fs00mwhat do you mean broken00:46
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luke-jrthe Shift keys and fghjvbnm don't press00:46
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: not talking about 3D00:46
mib_9fs00mok sorry00:47
luke-jrI honestly don't care about 3D00:47
luke-jrI don't even use 3D on my desktop machine00:47
mib_9fs00myou dont know what 3d is00:47
dieb_How to remove a wrong package upload to maemo extras devel ?00:47
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: useless eye candy00:47
mib_9fs00mif you had no hardware accelration, you coudnt even browse the web smoothly00:47
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: nonsense00:47
Jaffadieb_: Upload a newer version00:48
mib_9fs00mlol, its true00:48
Stskeepsmib_9fs00m: bullcrap. try webkit and Tear.00:48
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: you, sir, are an idiot ☺00:48
dieb_Jaffa: what if it's been uploaded by mistake and should be deleted completely?00:48
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mib_9fs00mwhat, try using, windows, without a proper 3d driver00:48
Jaffadieb_: Or ask X-Fade or jeremiah to delete it if it's not something you want to override00:48
lcuki wonder what would happen if i tied together simple little html chunks with simple little liq* elements :)00:48
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: no, Windows sucks00:48
dieb_Jaffa: thanks00:48
cosmois there any web browser which supports 3d acceleration?00:49
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: you would have to pay me to touch Windows00:49
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mib_9fs00many good o/s needs 3d accelration00:49
Jaffacosmo: iPhone uses the h/w accel to do transitions00:49
cosmoat least firefox doesn't, so i guess its useless00:49
lcukthey coped just fine for however many years before00:49
lcukand mine is 2d now00:49
dieb_X-Fade, jeremiah_torp ping00:49
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JaffaThis is not the ssame as "needing" to have 3D to browse the web, as mib_9fs00m claims00:49
mib_9fs00mi think you guys are confusing hardware accleration, for something else00:50
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mib_9fs00myou need hardware accelrated graphics00:50
luke-jrno, you don't00:50
Jaffamib_9fs00m: To render HTML, to execute JS? No.00:50
Stskeepsyou might need bitblit, sure, but 3d? no00:50
mib_9fs00mso is the os2008 smooth to use, can you drag and drop, and rezise?00:51
cosmodoes hw 2d blitting and gfx primitives count as acceleration?00:51
lcuki can00:51
mib_9fs00mlol, no you cant, it sucks00:51
* Stskeeps puts a troll hat on mib_9fs00m and goes do something useful00:51
* Jaffa goes tto listen to OO Ant00:52
mib_9fs00mi tired to reize a fucking rss reader, the dam thing crashed00:52
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: as if that has anything to do with hardware acceleration00:52
luke-jrget a clue00:52
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luke-jrgentooer: hi00:53
mib_9fs00myou have no idea. what 3d hardware, can do00:53
Stskeepsmib_9fs00m: anyway, most of us are not developers of maemo os here. so why are you bitching?00:53
Stskeepswe're happy users.00:53
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I think I have a much much better idea than you do00:53
mib_9fs00mbecuase i just wasted 200gbp, on worst piece if shit ever00:53
luke-jrgentooer: what device do you have?00:53
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: do your research before buying things.00:54
gentooerluke-jr, an n80000:54
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luke-jr*Nowhere* does anyone claim N810 has 3D acceleration00:54
luke-jrgentooer: cool, got Gentoo installed already?00:54
mib_9fs00mwhy do nokia relase prodcuts that are not ready00:54
lcukerrr i thought it had it actually00:54
Jaffamib_9fs00m: Return it. If you're in the UK, and you bought it online, and less than 2 weeks ago - you can get a full refund (as I said above)00:54
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lcuki read what system on die chipset it had00:54
lcukand it had powervr00:54
mib_9fs00mi think i will00:54
lcukthat was my first impression00:55
gentooerluke-jr, nah i don't think i'll be doing that anytime soon. n800 is mostly stock. gentoo is only on my desktop00:55
mib_9fs00myes it has power Vr and lot more, which nokia just chose to forget00:55
luke-jrgentooer: boo, we need more users!00:55
lcukwhen i found out it didnt, i worked around the damage00:55
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gentooerluke-jr, you have gentoo on your n8x0?00:55
lcukmib_9fs00m, you are not a hardware designer, there were implementation specific reasons for the choice of framebuffer00:55
luke-jrgentooer: indeed00:55
gentooerwow, that's crazy..00:56
luke-jrgentooer: 8 GB SD card is handy00:56
Stskeepsmib_9fs00m: they didn't need 3d. :)00:56
luke-jrupgrading kdelibs atm00:56
gentooerluke-jr, any reason why? just to see if you could?00:56
mib_9fs00mthe bottom line is nokia have relased a product that is not ready to browse the web,00:56
luke-jrgentooer: Maemo sucks, and Gentoo is my default for things I have physical access to00:56
Guest8048_411Hello, where can I find a guide to install pb KDE in my N810 ?00:56
luke-jrgentooer: and Gentoo is a lot easier to hack with00:56
luke-jrGuest8048_411: pb?00:57
mib_9fs00mdoes gentoo have 3d hardware enabled?00:57
lcukonly if you enter the driver details manually, in hex00:57
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: Linux doesn't support the 3D chip, so nothing does00:57
mib_9fs00mso the answer is NO !00:57
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lcukmib_9fs00m, it is linux00:58
mib_9fs00mofcourse linux supports 3d hardware00:58
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lcuknot everywhere00:58
mib_9fs00mit just that nokia havent bothred incuding it00:58
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VDVsxGuest8048_411, try google :P00:58
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tank-manI love the 3d support in Internet Explorer :)00:59
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: Linux doesnt' support PowerVR00:59
mib_9fs00mMaemo is biggest pile of crap ive ever seen00:59
luke-jractually, who asked about browsers with 3D support earlier?00:59
mib_9fs00mi did00:59
luke-jrnot you, someone with a clue01:00
Stskeepsmib_9fs00m: yet it lasts several days on a battery when a XP phone dies after 2 hours..01:00
mib_9fs00mhey i am using macbook pro, i think i have a clue01:00
luke-jrcosmo: Firefox has 3D canvas support via OpenGL ES now01:00
Stskeepsjust because it says "pro" doesn't mean you are01:00
luke-jrStskeeps: N810 lasts about 2 hours on battery ;)01:00
Stskeepsluke-jr: in gentoo probably01:00
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mib_9fs00mn810 is crap01:00
lcukmib_9fs00m, as a macbook owner, wtf made you choose linux?  why didnt you just get iphone?01:01
luke-jrStskeeps: I suspect it would last longer if stupid BME didn't issue the shutdown command01:01
cosmoluke-jr: via cairo backend or how?01:01
mib_9fs00mbecuase actually mac osx, is buily on free BSD01:01
lcukyou could be fingerpainting for ages01:01
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: that's myth01:01
mib_9fs00mwhich is linux01:01
luke-jrand THAT is just insanity01:01
mib_9fs00mno its not,01:01
luke-jrfact 1: Mac OS X is NOT built on FreeBSD01:02
luke-jrfact 2: FreeBSD is completely unrelated to Linux01:02
mib_9fs00mits built in berkley01:02
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: Mac OS X is built on NeXTStep01:02
mib_9fs00mwtf Neststep01:02
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lcukmib_9fs00m, what did you grow up owning?01:02
* lbt watches the buns01:02
mib_9fs00mnever heard of it01:02
lcukwhats your favorite machine01:03
cosmoafk coding something useful. looks like this channel has been trolled..01:03
mib_9fs00mimac 24 inch alu01:03
mib_9fs00mwhich i own too01:03
* lbt waits for "did too".... wonders what the book on luke-jr is?01:03
Macernextstep is what jobbs made after he got forced out01:03
luke-jrlbt: ⁇?01:03
lcukhave you had any other hand helds01:03
Macerwas actually pretty good01:03
mib_9fs00myes, ive had wm2003, wm5, wm6, which are all better01:04
luke-jrMacer: OS X is Nextstep w/ rename and theme change01:04
Macerthey renamed it so the 3rd party manufacturers couldnt use os9 anymore01:04
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lcukk, linux is built by lazy programmers01:04
mib_9fs00mluke are you mac user01:04
tank-manmib_9fs00m, sounds like your problem is the websites you want to visit are too complex01:05
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: no, Apple sucks01:05
lcukthey do what they need to do, but leave dusty corners01:05
Macerthe lic was that they can use os9 which is why they remade it and called it os x01:05
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luke-jrI would buy Apple hardware if they still used PowerPC01:05
luke-jrbut now they use x86, which is crap01:05
Macerme too01:05
luke-jrno reason to get Apple anymore01:05
mib_9fs00mpower pc, was good, but going to intel, had opened up windows to mac01:06
VDVsxluke-jr, nextstep is based in BSD linux, lol01:06
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: Windows sucks, I won't touch it01:06
Macerbsd linux?01:06
luke-jrVDVsx: yeah, maybe a decade before OS X01:06
VDVsxMacer, *unix01:06
luke-jrVDVsx: no relation to FreeBSD at all tho01:06
mib_9fs00myou have admit it, mac osx, kicks, windows into touch01:07
Macerit uses a modified mach kernel01:07
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I admit both Apple and Microsoft are evil, and Windows doesn't even work decent01:07
mib_9fs00myes thats right01:07
Macerprobably the same nextstep used 15 yrs ago =)01:07
luke-jrbut Apple is even more evil than Microsoft01:07
mib_9fs00mall big players are evil01:07
Macerluke-jr: that isnt a bad thing01:07
luke-jrApple releases open source because they are legally required to01:08
luke-jrbut Apple really wants closed source AND closed hardware01:08
luke-jrMicrosoft is at least for open hardware01:08
Macerpersonally i think the failure of a realistic linus pc foothold is its inability to be a common structure01:08
VDVsxluke-jr, yes, I read unix instead of freebsd, you are right :P01:08
mib_9fs00myou can get the source code for mac osx. but not for windows ???, go figure01:08
Macermost of osx =) not all01:09
luke-jrMacer: the goal is a diverse OS market, not a single "Linux" takeover01:09
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: you can't get the source code for OSX01:09
EdLinmib_9fs00m: got the source to iTunes, Quicktime, Quartz, and the GUI in general?01:09
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: just for the parts Apple is legally required to release01:09
Macerluke-jr: i will give you small portable niche markets01:09
luke-jrMicrosoft also releases small bits and pieces of code01:09
Macerbut the "distro" system will neither take over windows nor osx01:09
mib_9fs00myou can devolp for apple, and they will give the code01:10
Macerit is too unstructured with constant competition within itself01:10
luke-jrMacer: part of the problem is this "distro" mindset01:10
luke-jrpeople need to let Linux move back into the background where it belongs01:11
luke-jrwe don't use Linux01:11
Maceri suppose. everybody knows debian is the best one anyways.01:11
luke-jrwe use Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, Mandriva, etc01:11
* Macer hides =)01:11
luke-jror Debian ;)01:11
Macerluke. isnt there a count?01:11
Maceri bet it is up to 5001:11
Maceror more01:11
mib_9fs00mlinux, is the kernal, all the distros, do is add pretty icons and desktops01:11
luke-jruh, it's been way over 100 for a while01:11
Macermib_9fs00m: agreed01:12
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: Linux is the insignificant kernel01:12
mib_9fs00mluke, you talk crap01:12
Macerit is significant01:12
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: Linux can be replaced at a moment's notice01:12
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luke-jrthe desktops are far more essential01:12
Macerotherwise it wouldnt be called a linux distro01:12
jaskathe desktop environments are mostly garbage01:12
jaskaincluding the closed ones (windows, osx)01:12
luke-jrMacer: it's only called a "linux distro" by noobs and marketting01:12
mib_9fs00mluke, the kernal is what contols everthing, incuding the hardware01:13
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Macerluke-jr: =) you mean the masses?01:13
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: you mean only the hardware01:13
luke-jrMacer: yes01:13
Macercase closed01:13
luke-jrbut in reality01:13
luke-jrput a FreeBSD kernel in there01:13
luke-jrand as long as the hardware is supported, nobody will notice the difference01:13
Macermost mac users dont know wtf a kernel is01:14
mib_9fs00msupers users would noitce01:14
Macerthey just know thei iphone and ipod work with their mac01:14
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: only kernel developers would notice01:14
luke-jrnot even superusers01:14
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Macerluke-jr: yes they would01:14
tank-manthats cause users interact with programs, not system calls and apis01:14
luke-jrok, superusers might *notice* if they have a reason to go poking around with kernel modules01:14
mib_9fs00mlinux is better than windows, and osx, is better than them all01:15
luke-jrbut that indicates a hardware problem, which was an already asserted "not a problem"01:15
luke-jrtank-man: exactly01:15
Macerstrong users are attracted to powerful operating systems that offer the most bang for the hardware buck. they will research what makes it01:15
mib_9fs00mluke what o/s do you like?01:15
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I don't like any. They all suck.01:15
luke-jrI use Gentoo and Debian.01:15
luke-jrwith KDE on desktop.01:15
MiskaXas long as kernel implements suitable syscalls for implementing POSIX things are pretty fine...01:15
mib_9fs00mthats lnux, thenn01:15
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: both Gentoo and Debian support using a FreeBSD kernel01:16
Macermib_9fs00m: osx is nice, but i dont care much for stock aqua01:16
mib_9fs00mi use, ubuntu, with compiz fussion, so there01:16
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Macerkde + kwin isnt too bad01:16
luke-jrMacer: Plasma is pissing me off01:16
Macerpersonally i like it more than aqua01:17
luke-jrand KDEPIM is pure idiocy01:17
luke-jrMacer: Plasma's problem isn't UI, it's RAM bloat01:17
Maceri'l give you that one ;)01:17
Macerthe kdepim01:17
luke-jrMacer: plasma is THE biggest memory eater on my N81001:17
mib_9fs00myou need 3d hardware, to use compiz fussion, case closed01:17
Maceras far as bloat goes.. who cares?01:17
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: Compiz is useless crap01:17
Macerenviroments go along with capable hardware01:17
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luke-jrMacer: 128 MB of RAM isn't enough to afford bloat01:17
Macera 1tb hdd is like $130?01:18
Macer4G of ram?01:18
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mib_9fs00myes, you need atleast 512mb gddr301:18
Macerless than $100?01:18
luke-jrMacer: 4G of RAM installed in a handheld would be far more than $10001:18
luke-jris someone here capable of kicking mib_9fs00m?01:18
Macerwell. handhelds are a different story01:18
Macerwhich is why i called portables the niche market01:19
Macerlinus does have quite a foothold on it01:19
Macerlinux (damnit)01:19
mib_9fs00mnokia should stick to phones, and leave the tablet to people who know what there doing01:19
Macerok. now that was just ignorant01:19
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: as much as the N810 sucks, the only thing I've ever seen better in the market was a Zaurus01:19
luke-jrand Sharp stopped making them01:20
mib_9fs00mlo, ha ha01:20
Macerpfft. neetons!01:20
mib_9fs00myou joking right01:20
luke-jrand with my idea/patent, a SmartQ is quite competitive01:20
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Macernokia needs to do something with symbian and fast01:20
parigaudii'm just installing a maemo sdk on a recent kubuntu, and now read that there might be problems with the xephyr x server on that distro?01:20
mib_9fs00mi prefer the teaxas intrusments scienttific calc01:20
parigaudijaunty that is?01:21
Macerthey are letting it get left behind01:21
luke-jrparigaudi: forget Maemo :þ01:21
mib_9fs00mhow can you install gentoo on n81001:21
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: SmartQ is cheaper than the N810, get one01:21
parigaudiluke-jr: and what would i  use instead01:21
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: the same way I install Gentoo on my desktop01:21
tank-manmib_9fs00m, maybe in a chroot01:21
luke-jrparigaudi: Gentoo or Mae01:21
Macerparigaudi: you might want to wait around for johnx or stskeeps.01:21
Macerthey do the mer stuff01:22
mib_9fs00mok, thanks01:22
luke-jrparigaudi: if you can handle Gentoo, I can help with that ;)01:22
mib_9fs00mcan you get 3d working01:22
jaskano kbd on those :(01:22
luke-jrjaska: hence my patent01:22
luke-jrjaska: Bluetooth keyboard attachment to turn it into a clamshell01:22
parigaudithx Macer and luke-jr01:23
mib_9fs00mim going to smash my n810 with hammer, and post in you tube !01:23
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: so much for 200gbp01:23
Macerhave fun =)01:23
mib_9fs00mi will01:23
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I would much prefer giving you money to ship it to me01:23
Macerbbl. going to work on something. my son is taking a nap!01:23
mib_9fs00mhow much would you pay01:23
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: shipping01:23
mib_9fs00mits 2 days old01:24
tank-man2days old, lol return it to the store and take any restocking fee incured01:24
mib_9fs00mi will accept 80gbp for it01:24
tank-manand stop bitching01:24
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I won't spend 80gbp on a N81001:24
luke-jr80gbp could get me a new SmartQ01:24
mib_9fs00mis that becuase its crap device01:24
mib_9fs00mso why are you defending it01:25
luke-jrI'm not. :þ01:25
mib_9fs00mim getting hammer, ready01:25
Stskeepstroll, heh01:25
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: you'd rather smash it than accept 10gbp?01:25
parigaudiahm actually what i need is just an easy way to build qt apps for my n81001:26
luke-jrparigaudi: yeah, I do that on my N81001:26
mib_9fs00mluke you need n810. why01:26
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I don't need another one.01:26
luke-jrbut for 10gbp + shipping, maybe my wife can play with one01:27
mib_9fs00msomeone said they needed it01:27
lbtparigaudi: 'easy' or fast?01:27
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mib_9fs00mim sure your wife can find something else to play with,01:27
parigaudilbt: could you tell me more about both options before i have to choose?01:28
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: yeah, I have just the thing!01:28
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: but if you want 10gbp for the N810, she can have that too01:28
luke-jrif not, np01:28
lbtMer has a builder which you could use. It's qemu based and works on Ubuntu. The binaries/debs are fine on Diablo.01:28
mib_9fs00mi m going to smah it tiny pieces and then mail it back to nokia01:28
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: that's like negative 10gbp01:29
lbtthere's no xephyr01:29
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mib_9fs00m10gbp is nothing01:29
lbtso if you want to debug / run too then it's no good01:29
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lbtmib_9fs00m: £12.5001:29
luke-jraww, outbid01:30
mib_9fs00m80gbp, and you can have it01:30
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: 10gbp is 20gbp more than negative 10gbp01:30
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lbt£12.50 + a Zaurus01:30
luke-jrlbt: @*($&(@#*01:30
mib_9fs00mi could ebay it, let some other poor sod suffer01:30
luke-jrwhich Zaurus is that, BTW?01:30
tank-mancan you trust a troll to mail you the n810 after you send money tho :)01:31
lbtit has a blue suede case!!01:31
mib_9fs00mwow really01:31
luke-jrtank-man: I'm glad for PayPal disputes in this case.01:31
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luke-jrlbt: which Zaurus is that, BTW?01:31
lbtoriginal and best!01:31
lbt5500..... SL01:31
mib_9fs00mim going to feel much better, whith the hammer approach01:31
lbtparigaudi: ping me tomorrow if you like01:32
parigaudiok thx01:32
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: and be out 200gbp01:32
mib_9fs00mright on the screen  nokia logo,01:32
luke-jr210gbp after you ship it to Nokia01:32
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luke-jrsell it to me for 10gbp and get off with only 190gbp loss!01:33
mib_9fs00mluke if you want it, 80gbp, and its yours01:33
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: it isn't worth 80gbp01:33
mib_9fs00mi paid 200gbp for it01:33
luke-jrlike I said, I could get a new SmartQ for 80gbp01:33
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: not my fault you got ripped off01:33
mib_9fs00mwhat is smart Q01:33
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: SmartQ is what the N800 was supposed to be01:33
mib_9fs00mdoes it have 3d hardware, that it used01:34
luke-jrit has 3D hardware, but there's no drivers yet01:34
luke-jrbut the spec is open, so it seems likely01:34
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mib_9fs00mlol, same thing01:34
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: PowerVR spec is not available, so nobody can write drivers01:34
luke-jrexcept TI01:35
mib_9fs00mwhy isnt it available01:35
luke-jrTI won't share it01:35
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luke-jrSmartQ's spec is open, so anyone can write a driver01:35
mib_9fs00mTi, so why did they make the dam chip01:35
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luke-jrmib_9fs00m: TI wants a lot more $$$ to use 3D01:35
luke-jror somethign stupid like that01:35
mib_9fs00mand nokia, wont pay01:36
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: ever wonder why the N810 is cheaper than the iPhone01:36
mib_9fs00mok, im getting th hammer !01:36
Stskeepsreason why maemo doesnt have 3d in 4.0 is simple01:36
Stskeepsthats why we cant have nice things01:36
luke-jrGPL is inherent in nice things01:37
luke-jrwell, not really01:37
luke-jrbut the terms01:37
luke-jrif it isn't open, it might as well not exist01:37
Stskeepsyeah, and i am looking forward to open 3d kernel driver01:37
mib_9fs00mthe n8XX will have 3d hardware, and it used the same chip01:37
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mib_9fs00mso what the deal there?01:37
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: ?01:38
luke-jryou mean the N900?01:38
luke-jrit doesn't use teh same chip01:38
mib_9fs00mthe nest N810, will have 3d hardware01:38
luke-jrit doesn't use the same chip01:38
luke-jrRX-51 is OMAP *3*01:38
mib_9fs00mwhat chip will it use01:38
luke-jrN810 is OMAP *2)01:38
mib_9fs00mbut its still the same chip, just newer model01:39
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Stskeepsmbx vs sgx01:39
luke-jrum, no01:39
luke-jr"newer model" means "entirely different chip" in many cases01:39
mib_9fs00mis this chip open01:39
luke-jrheck, even "same model" could be entirely different for some things01:39
luke-jrStskeeps: it is?01:39
Stskeepsin terms of oss kernel driver, closed libraries supporting gl es01:40
mib_9fs00mdam, i should have waited01:40
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luke-jrsigh, X11 should be GPL too :/01:40
luke-jrStskeeps: anyhow, I took that as teh chip being open (spec)01:40
luke-jryou're just talking 3D driver01:40
Stskeepsbut i could argue with luke-jr all night about definition of open01:40
mib_9fs00mthis is all bollox, n810 should use the all the hardware avialable to it01:41
Stskeepsbbl sleep01:41
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: I agree, but it doesn't.01:41
mib_9fs00mthats such a shame,01:41
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: consider yourself one of many people who regrets their purchase01:41
Stskeepsmib_9fs00m: why cant i use 3d in linux on iphone?01:41
mib_9fs00miphone has got 3d hardware, which is used01:42
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: while I'm not happy with the N810, I am at least trying to do something with it, so if you can't find a use, I wouldn't mind taking yours for a reasonable price01:42
lcukmib_9fs00m, iphone sucks, its so low resolution01:42
luke-jrbut it's not very usable and I don't need it, so "reasonable" is currently 10gbp :þ01:42
mib_9fs00mhave you seen how good the GUI looks01:43
Stskeepsits kinda simplistic01:43
lcukyeah, like i said though i love the ui on my 81001:43
Stskeepsi like my xterm.01:43
luke-jrI don't mind console mode, but KDE is nice01:43
mib_9fs00mreally, its the worst GUI i have ever seen01:43
lcuksmart, quick intuitive and not one bit of real 3d in sight01:43
Stskeepsand not having to jailbreak01:43
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: actually, I do like Hildon's GUI01:44
luke-jrjust not the implementation01:44
mib_9fs00mif you could jailbreak the dam n810, i would01:44
parigaudiin the communication section of the app manager, i find openssh-server, openssh-client and openssh. what is the openssh package if the server and client are in different packages?01:44
lcukmib_9fs00m, you have root01:44
lcukwtf do you need jailbreak for?01:44
tank-manjailbreak the n810?01:44
luke-jrlcuk: not by default01:44
mib_9fs00mone good thing about n810, is the VPN and RDP01:44
lcukoh sorry, open the extras repo01:44
luke-jrparigaudi: 'openssh' is a metapkg depending on both01:44
Stskeepsdude, rootsh01:44
parigaudioh ok thx luke-jr01:44
Stskeepsits really open to hacking01:45
luke-jrunless you want to use the GPS01:45
mib_9fs00mi thought it was closed01:45
tank-mannokia gives you a tool to flash and toggle r&d mode for root01:45
mib_9fs00mr&d whats that?01:45
Nomaresearch & development01:45
mib_9fs00mmmmmmmmmmmmm ok01:46
Stskeepsheck, how would luke-jr run gentoo on it if it was closed?01:46
luke-jrStskeeps: I jailbroke01:46
mib_9fs00mim going to look on youtube, and see how gentoo runs,on n81001:46
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: you won't find anythin on YouTube01:46
luke-jrthere's only 3 people who have got Gentoo on N8x001:47
mib_9fs00mwhy not01:47
luke-jrand only 2 on N81001:47
mib_9fs00mwhy so few01:47
luke-jrand none of us have bothered for YouTube01:47
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: it's not simple to do01:47
luke-jr <-- instructions01:47
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mib_9fs00mNO sound, wtf is that good for01:48
mib_9fs00mcant even listen to music01:48
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luke-jractually, I got sound working01:48
luke-jrbut then keyboard doesn't work :<01:48
lcukmib_9fs00m, do you troll the lego forums complaining that the blocks dont come in the shape of houses and trains?01:48
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luke-jrmight have sound+keyboard in a few minutes actually01:48
luke-jrwaiting for kdelibs to finish installing first01:49
mib_9fs00mthis device is really rubbish, im not going to buy the n900, once bitten , twice shy01:49
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: like I said, grab a SmartQ ☺01:49
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mib_9fs00myes, still not 3d hardware on smar q01:50
luke-jrit has the hardware, just nobody wrote drivers YET01:50
luke-jrbut I think inevitable01:50
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luke-jrStskeeps even has discounts for someone who will do it01:50
luke-jrStskeeps: I do presume a competent person writing 3D drivers is guaranteed one :þ01:50
mib_9fs00mi think the best device is wifi- somthing, aquous01:51
mib_9fs00mwhat its called?01:51
Jaffamib_9fs00m: If 3D is your ultimate requirement, RX-51/Rover will do it01:51
mib_9fs00mim not just after 3d, i want 3d, and good GUI, with lots of apps01:52
luke-jrJaffa: will RX-51 do full (more than ES) OpenGL?01:52
mib_9fs00mopenGl is pretty much all you need01:53
Jaffaluke-jr: No, but there's talk of a (limited) wrapper01:53
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: iPhone doesn't support OpenGL01:53
mib_9fs00miphone has its own 3d drivers01:53
luke-jrOpenGL ES01:53
luke-jrnot full OpenGL01:54
mib_9fs00mits doesnt need need opengl01:54
luke-jryou're an idiot01:54
luke-jrnothing needs OpenGL except game consoles01:54
mib_9fs00mwindows can use open GL01:54
luke-jrWindows is crap01:54
tank-manmib_9fs00m, go buy an itouch or iphone and get it over with. you know you want it01:54
mib_9fs00mive got one01:55
Nomahow about installing gentoo on iphone and making a video about it on youtube?01:55
mib_9fs00mi thought the nokia n810 was somthing really good01:55
luke-jrNoma: get me an iPhone and I will01:55
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: it's better than iPhone at least01:55
mib_9fs00mi belived all the hype01:55
mib_9fs00mnoway, how can you even think that01:56
tank-manhype? lol ive yet to see a commercial on tv for n81001:56
mib_9fs00mjust look on nokia n810 homepage01:56
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: because iPhone is even worse01:56
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mib_9fs00miphone is much better than n810,01:57
tank-manthanks for the info01:57
mib_9fs00meven the ipod 80gb is better01:57
mib_9fs00mn810 has the slowest GUI ever, it crashes, it is very slow,01:57
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Jaffamib_9fs00m: What was better 3 years ago?01:58
mib_9fs00mif anyone think n810 is better device than iphone, i would have to disagree01:59
luke-jr <-- status of Linux on iPhone01:59
tank-manmib_9fs00m, n810 isnt a phone duh01:59
mib_9fs00miphone doesnt need linux, it is using all hardware to it full pottential01:59
mib_9fs00mthats all i want the n810 to do02:00
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: iPhoneOS is closed, and therefore might as well not exist02:00
Jaffamib_9fs00m: The only thing not being used on the N810s h/w is the PowerVR02:01
mib_9fs00miphone can be jailbroken,02:01
luke-jriPhone looks like it has the same SoC as the SmartQ02:01
luke-jrJaffa: and GPS, for practical purposes!02:01
mib_9fs00mit has 1000;s of free apps02:01
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: gratis, not free02:01
mib_9fs00mmost of them are02:01
parigaudi3~3~a propos phone: what's the sip client you would recommend for n810?02:01
Jaffaluke-jr: Running your gpsdriver, perhaps. WFM02:01
mib_9fs00mluke do you have iphone02:01
mib_9fs00mhave you ever used one02:02
mib_9fs00mit uses, a very sophicated package manager02:02
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Nomai have used iphone for a week, and i can tell you i wouldn't change my n810 to it02:02
luke-jrmib_9fs00m: if I don't have the source, it is worthless02:02
Nomaor i would, but then i'd sell the iphone and buy another n81002:02
* Jaffa looks forward to having the accelerometers and 3d h/w for some simple fun games (a la Cube racer)02:03
mib_9fs00mwell you might, but i think the iphone is the device that all other manufactures try to emulate02:04
luke-jrJaffa: Nokia should hire me to write a real Location/Network framework XD02:04
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luke-jrJaffa: or hire someone to do it, anyhow, doesn't need to be me I guess02:04
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luke-jrit should triangulate APs and plan to do fly-by data exchanges ;)02:05
Jaffamib_9fs00m: Perhaps. The App Store has been succesful; so imagine something 2x powerful in an open source ecosystem02:05
Nomanokia's marketing managers answer to a journalist that asked about iphone selling over one million devices sometime ago is the best answer i've heard recently: "well, we have sold the same amount of phones today after the lunch"02:05
Jaffaluke-jr: Loc. framework in fremantle's sparkly and new (and uses cell towers for AGPS)02:05
mib_9fs00myou guys are all brainwashed02:06
luke-jrbut does it plan out WiFi access?02:06
mib_9fs00mfuck nokia, this divice is pile of shit02:06
mib_9fs00mbye !02:06
JaffaNoma: Yeah, but that misses the point in the iPhone's success. It can't be quite so easily dismissed02:06
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luke-jrso when it knows I've driving near an AP (it's navigating!), it counts down, connects, grabs any IMs waiting, and sends any IMs I have pending02:06
Jaffaluke-jr: Whilst going past at 30mph? Doubt it. Would be cool.02:07
luke-jrJaffa: 60 mph ;)02:07
Jaffaluke-jr: Nokia's answer would be always-on data via HSPA02:07
luke-jrthat's why it needs to plan it out02:07
luke-jrbegin transmitting even before it gets beacons02:08
luke-jroh, true, I guess that negates the AP exchange purpose to some degree02:08
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luke-jrJaffa: any idea if Nokia can get us a decent data plan from some provider?02:08
luke-jreg, no stupid 5 GB limit02:09
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JaffaHmm, can imagine a few problems (knowing limits of range vs. AP location), WPA key exchange etc.02:09
luke-jrso we can run X11 apps remotely02:09
Nomaluke-jr: move to finland;)02:09
luke-jrJaffa: if there's WPA, chances are you can't just use it at random :þ02:09
Jaffaluke-jr: No idea. The leak seemed to suggest a partnership with T-Mobile, but it'd still be "fair usage policy applies", I guess02:09
luke-jrNoma: can't, prisoner02:10
Jaffaluke-jr: I was assuming you meant an AP you were authed to02:10
luke-jrJaffa: aren't you with Nokia?02:10
Jaffaluke-jr: Nope02:10
luke-jrwonder how I confused that02:10
luke-jroh, maybe your bug-note attempt to justify closed GPS <.<02:10
JaffaMember of the community council, but have no financial relationship to Nokia02:10
Jaffaluke-jr: Not justify it being closed (tho'  think it's TI); just saying you can't blame Nokia (too much) if you change the shipped gpsdriver and then it works less well02:11
luke-jrJaffa: I can blame Nokia for forcing me to change it blindly.02:12
luke-jrif I wasn't blinded, I could do a much better job fixing it up02:12
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* Jaffa nods02:13
luke-jrJaffa: the unmodified gpsdriver won't work outside of Maemo, not even on Mer02:14
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lcukJaffa, wifi if in range, otherwise cell02:18
lcukwould love that tbh02:18
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luke-jrhappen to know the git cmd for "undo"?02:18
lcukgit reset --force i think lol02:19
lcukthat should roll back to the point of last something or other02:19
lcukahh --hard02:19
luke-jrthis is why I prefer bzr ;)02:20
luke-jrcommands are more logical02:21
lcukluke-jr, always going forwards, just dont make changes that need rolling back :P02:22
luke-jrlcuk: I was going to rename the gconf USE flag to agps, then realized there are multiple agps functions :þ02:23
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Jaffaluke-jr: Yes, I know about gpsdriver on Mer02:29
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_Pit_BullHello people ))03:43
_Pit_BullWho speaking Russian ?03:45
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_Pit_BullPlease say me , what another OS may installing on Nokia n8xx ?03:47
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infobotrumour has it, time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2009.06.06  0:49:25 GMT03:49
_Pit_Bullthank you.03:50
b-man16no problem :)03:51
Nomaand about the OS's:
_Pit_Bullthank you))03:51
_Pit_BullI am from Russia ))03:51
Nomab-man16: 03:47:45 < _Pit_Bull> Please say me , what another OS may installing on Nokia n8xx ?03:52
Nomaseconds before you joined:)03:52
b-man16ah, ok03:52
_Pit_BullI want buy Nokia n800 or n810, because i intresting some aspects.03:54
_Pit_Bullcheat, i bad speaking english, sorry03:56
b-man16*am interested ;)03:56
b-man16it's ok :)03:56
_Pit_BullI write on Deplhi/Kylix . May i port my programs on maemo os ?03:57
b-man16it should be possible03:59
b-man16it makes since03:59
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_Pit_Bulli don't known what you say,sorry04:00
_Pit_Bullthank you )) bye all04:02
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Nomawell that was an interesting conversation04:02
b-man16hmm :P04:02
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b-man16i was going to talk to him in russian using google translator, but he left before i could do so XD04:03
Nomai was just thinking about it too:D04:04
Nomathough i don't know how it translates into russian, at least finnish seems to be hard to it :p04:04
Nomaabove line translated from finnish to english: Admittedly, I do not know how to reverse the Russian, at least in Finland seems to be difficult for it.04:06
* b-man16 is running a javascript webserver on his tablet atm btw XD04:08
Nomajavascript webserver wtf?:D04:08
b-man16yup, Ejscript04:08
b-man16it's more like a web application framework though - it's designed to work without the aid of a browser :D04:10
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Nomaso it's like the serverside java but javascript?:p04:10
b-man16but it's easier than java XD04:11
Nomayep, not that complicated04:11
b-man16pluse it can run stan alone scripts or compiled javascript :)04:12
Nomahmm maybe i should go to sleep, it's 4 am :/04:13
b-man16and it has support for jquery :)04:13
b-man16wow 0.o04:13
b-man16you should XD04:13
rzrNoma: nitdroid :)04:14
Nomahmm, is nitdroid still missing bluetooth (+ possibility to connect to internet via 3g phone)?04:16
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FireFox`~seen xnt1404:33
infobotxnt14 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 9h 22m 50s ago, saying: ':P'.04:34
FireFox`damn, i missed him :P04:34
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* FireFox` jumps on twitter to bug him XD04:35
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luke-jrNoma: that list omits Gentoo :<05:03
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dieb_does anyone know how to get rid of "sem_post: Function not implemented" on diablo sbox python2.5?05:35
Bobbedo the council meetings happen here in irc?05:35
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luke-jrwtf is with this? :/06:54
luke-jrBME won't let me boot06:54
luke-jrpiece of crap06:54
luke-jrStskeeps: plz help? :<06:59
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luke-jr"BME warning: ignored processwd PONG!"07:03
luke-jrwtf is that07:03
luke-jrit affects Maemo too07:04
luke-jrI'm screwed? :/07:04
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luke-jrfun, bootmenu's rescue mode is broken too07:07
luke-jrexcept it just fails to start ssh07:07
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Macerholy shit kde4 runs like shit on this intel07:21
Macerthere has to be something astray07:21
Macerwin7 doesn't run nearly as shitty when it comes to the 3D stuff07:21
luke-jrMacer: help me :þ07:21
luke-jrmy N810 won't boot07:22
Macermaybe i can find a better driver for this shit07:22
Macerit won't boot at all?07:22
Macerlike you bricked it or something?07:22
luke-jrand bootmenu's rescue thing is screwed07:22
luke-jrwasn't me, I swear07:22
Macerwow.. bricked it huh? :)07:22
luke-jrthe blob did it07:22
Macersure it wasn't :)07:22
luke-jris responsible07:22
Maceri'm kind of working on getting this intel not to run like total shit07:23
Macerin kubuntu07:23
luke-jrMacer: disabling DSME's watchdog should workaround it07:25
luke-jrany idea how?07:25
luke-jrDSME's process watchdog is killing BME07:26
Maceri dunno man. i haven't worked on my n800 in a very long time.. and i never bricked it.07:26
Macerhow far does it get when you turn it on?07:26
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luke-jrMacer: it starts booting07:30
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qwerty12_N810luke-jr: Tried the RD-Mode flags?07:33
luke-jrqwerty12_N810: that's what i was about to do..07:33
luke-jrbut flasher @($*@# screwed up my desktop machine's host stack07:33
luke-jrso now I don't have USB until I reboot07:34
luke-jrguess I now have real-world examples of Nokia's idiot proprietaryness causing practical problems07:34
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luke-jrunless there's some other way to restart khubd?07:35
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* RST38h moos at qwerty08:05
qwerty12_N810hi RST38h :)08:06
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Macerwtf. i wonder why this intel945 is so damn slow in kde408:24
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RST38hkde4 is probably slow by itself08:31
RST38hAs it effectively turned itself into Windows08:32
luke-jrMacer: turn off compositing?08:33
MacerRST38h: haha08:33
luke-jrMacer: also, stop using the Oxygen style08:34
Maceri suppose so but as far as enviroments go it is a better choice08:34
Macerluke-jr: but i want the 3d effects :)08:34
luke-jrMacer: turn off Oxygen at least08:34
Macerwindows 7 runs like a dream on it08:34
Macerwhich means the performance hit is somewhere in either X, linux, or kde408:34
luke-jrprobably KDE 4 or x08:35
Maceror maybe the onboard video is just a total piece of shit ;)08:35
Macerbut windows 7 eliminated that possibility because it was running fairly well on the same box08:36
luke-jrtbh, the X11 design is totally screwed up ☺08:36
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Maceri wish i could dev08:36
Macerso i could make a better system of gui :)08:36
luke-jrI wish I had time.08:36
Macerthere has to be a better way than the server/client system08:36
luke-jrno -.-08:37
luke-jrthat's not related to the problem08:37
Macerits just overbuilding of xorg? :)08:37
luke-jrthe problem is that compositing is effectively client->server->client->server->display08:37
luke-jrand the server is really dumb08:38
Macerhm. damn i don't have ssh set up on it yet08:38
Macerand osx was a bust08:38
luke-jrtoolkits should be on the server side08:38
Macermaybe i should just try one of the premade dvds08:38
Macerand see if i can get osx on it with that08:38
luke-jrclients/apps should just transmit widget info08:38
Maceri'm just going to try out osx86 again08:39
Macerone last time with an older version of kalaway or something08:39
Maceripc osx86 looks rather promising08:42
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zakkmwhats this Mamona i just watched a youtube vid of?09:47
Stskeepsold stuff09:47
zakkm2009-05-15 - Mamona Installer 0.2.6 released - for installation procedure. ?09:47
zakkmis it like mer , but different ppl and such?09:48
Stskeepsdifferent view on the world i'd say. much of their work is interesting and used in mer09:48
Stskeepsbut it's not really a consumer thing09:48
zakkmi like the virtual keyboard thingy in it09:48
zakkmits cool they used e17 and it looked nice ;p09:48
zakkmsort of at the top like in mer09:49
zakkmapplet thingy to bring keyboard/take it away09:49
Stskeepsany embedded linux distribution will diverge towards using enlightenment, and then wither and fade away09:49
zakkmenlightenment got alot faster i heard09:50
zakkmstarted using assembly and stuff09:50
zakkmor something09:50
Stskeepsany coder will diverge towards the insanity of having assembly code in his C programs09:50
zakkmi dont understnad how anyone could write assembly09:51
zakkm ?09:52
Stskeepsah, it's not difficult once you know how to09:52
Stskeepsyeah, webkit is fast :P09:53
zakkmwhats efl ?09:53
Stskeepsenlightenment foundation libraries09:53
zakkmoh rightt09:54
zakkmoh i guess thats only helpful in enlightenment09:54
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aquatixmorning all10:34
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Stskeepslo crashanddie10:40
Stskeepshow goes?10:41
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crashanddiethe "Warning: #maemo is perilous for your job." is still on there10:41
crashanddieStskeeps, not too bad10:41
crashanddieStskeeps, about to go to the office though10:42
Stskeepson a saturday?10:42
crashanddieoh yeah10:42
crashanddieand even tomorrow by the looks of it10:42
qwerty12Didn't have you down as a workaholic :P10:43
Stskeepsah, and i thought i was bad off reading for exams..10:43
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crashanddieqwerty12, yeah actually I guess I quite am10:44
qwerty12heh :)10:44
crashanddieI had the Monday off10:44
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crashanddieand my calendar is telling me I'm already at 72 hours10:44
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crashanddieA good job is made out of 5 things10:46
crashanddie1/ Pay 2/ Location (transport) 3/ People 4/ Actual work you're doing 5/ Place it allows you to live10:47
crashanddieif you have 3 out of 5, you're on to a winner10:47
crashanddieif you have 4 out of 5, that's quite amazing and very lucky, and if you have all 5, you'd be mad to even think about jumping sides10:47
crashanddieI think i have like 3.510:48
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Stskeepsmm, i still wonder where i would be after september10:49
crashanddieqwerty12, plus, you're going to be the biggest of all in terms of workaholism10:49
crashanddieseen how much you work for maemo/mer?10:49
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Stskeepsqwerty12 has the mental ability to take a break though10:50
Stskeepswhich i have difficulties with10:50
crashanddietaking a break?10:52
crashanddiethat's not in my contract10:52
crashanddiesee, with the line of work I do10:52
crashanddieI've come to realise10:52
crashanddiethat, sometimes I can ask my boss to have the day, or the weekend10:52
crashanddieand sure, he'll grant it10:52
crashanddiebut damn, he never says "day off", or "weekend off", so if shit hits the fan, he WILL call until he gets a hold of me10:53
crashanddiecall or whatever necessary10:53
qwerty12Buy a 3310 and chuck it in the river when you hear it ringing :)10:54
crashanddieI'm actually trying to find the blackberry SDK, so that my BB automagically switches anyone from work to "THE DEVIL" when I tell it I'm on holiday10:54
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Macerone last ditch effort for osx10:59
crashanddielmao: gotta love the rant10:59
MacerTHEN i give up :)10:59
Macerkde4 runs like crap on this shuttl10:59
Macerthis doesn't work then it's win7 i suppose11:00
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Macerall this time trying all these awkward things with a retail osx disc11:36
Macerwhen i could have just used an iPC disc to install 10.5.611:36
Macerwhat a waste of life :)11:36
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aquatixMacer: :)11:42
Maceraquatix: blah :) i wasted a whole day yesterday trying to use my retail osx dvd11:42
Macerare sse3 and ssse3 different things?11:43
aquatixssse3? don't know that one11:43
Macerwtf? :)11:43
Maceri'm just reading my linux cpuinfo11:44
Macerso i don't mess up on this osx install11:44
Macerit says if i am on amd or sse2 system i must choose a voodoo kernel11:44
Macerwtf? :)11:44
aquatixblack magic for the win11:44
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Macerwow like.. this is some serious osx hackery11:46
Maceri mean these guys totally rewrote the osx install11:46
Maceri mean .. it's like going through a linux kernel config haha11:47
aquatixhence voodoo ;)11:47
Macerwell.. i don't think it's actually modifying the kernel11:47
Maceri think it just installs ktexts11:47
Macerwell.. :)11:47
Macerktext... one could only wonder what the k stands for11:48
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Macerdoes pci-e use agpart at all?11:48
aquatixcrashanddie: ooooohkay... (@ that youtube link)11:49
aquatixMacer: no sure11:49
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Macerwelp.. let's see if this thing explodes12:00
Macerif this works i might work on my artigo next.. i need to take debian off it12:00
Macerand install something a little more "server" :)12:00
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aquatixMacer: as in opensolaris or something?12:10
aquatixi rather like debian for server stuff myself12:10
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Macerinstall failed12:11
Macerrun preinstall script for 920SpeedStepKernel12:12
Macerwtf? :)12:12
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minrause a pocket handkerchief when you sneeze - dont be a virus vector -
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wazdhello maemo12:42
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lbthi wazd12:51
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Maceri have tried every which way to get this stupid onboard thing working13:42
Macerin osx13:43
Macereverything works but the marvell that others seem to be able to get working and i have no idea wtf i am doing wrong13:43
johnxand that's why I never bothered messing with hackintosh stuff :)13:43
Macerit is driving me up a fucking wall man :)13:44
Macerwhat.. the.. fuck13:44
Macerit looks like it should be working but it simply isn't13:45
Macerand i can't for the life of me find out why13:45
johnxlook at the logs?13:45
lcukhey johnx did they let you back in the country then13:45
lcukexcellent :D13:45
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johnxgetting through CPH security into the airport was actually more of a pain than getting back into the US13:45
johnxthough whoever thought reclining seats in coach class was a good idea should be forced to sit in one13:46
lcukthey were a bit efficient13:46
lcukmy pants nearly fell down when i had to take belt off13:46
Macerthere is something i hadn't noticed13:46
MacerappleYukon2 ... failed to allocate msi interrupt13:46
johnxprobably some off the wall EFI vs BIOS IRQ handling stuff13:47
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amit_usualhi ,is there a way i.e can connect my repository to some other svn repository14:00
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johnxsorry, not exactly sure I understand what you're trying to do14:00
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amit_usualwell just like we have linking of normal directories , what i want is that i link to some other repository such that any updates on it lead to an update on my repository14:03
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jeremiah_torpamit_usual: That is going to freak svn out.14:17
jeremiah_torpsvn is centralized, do and 'svn info' to find out what your svn instance is reading.14:18
RST38h"It should be noted that while infected individuals don't casually choose to use non-rhyming words, they are able to and the consequences may be deadly. At the request of the cleaning crews assigned to clean up the blood, researchers are strongly discouraged from similar experiments."14:18
Macerwell. guess i'll try this realtek 813914:18
johnxah, good old rtl813914:19
johnxmy first ethernet card :)14:19
VDVsxjeremiah_torp, but you can fetch a external svn repo, without any problem14:20
jeremiah_torpVDVsx: Well of course, just start a new repo.14:21
jeremiah_torpIf amit_usual is trying to merge, he will have to do that by hand. :P14:22
jeremiah_torpWhich is fine, just seems pointless.14:22
VDVsxjeremiah_torp, is a common practice, when you have some dependencies in other project under development14:22
jeremiah_torpI thought he was talking about _linking_?14:23
jeremiah_torpas in ln -s ?14:23
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jeremiah_torpHm, is git already in fremantle? It appears to be in my SDK. :)14:24
jeremiah_torpNo - I think there is some confusion.14:25
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VDVsxjeremiah_torp, yes, but he don't want it for sure :P14:26
Stskeepsjeremiah_torp: theres a devkit in sb14:29
Macerjohnx: haha14:30
Macerdwell... i'm trying to get this damn marvell to work still14:30
Macerthe realtek just simply worked14:30
johnxare you really doing something that benefits from gigabit ethernet?14:30
Maceri am pretty sure i will be moving large files between the two14:31
Maceri wasn't able to get a 8169 working though for some sickly reason14:31
Macerand the onboard marvell isn't either14:32
Macerit sucks man :-\14:32
johnxso what's the killer app on mac os x that you need so badly? or just enjoying hacking around?14:32
Macerosx is nicer on this than win714:33
johnxI just think there's so much difference between the hackintosh osx experience and the "mac" osx experience14:33
jeremiah_torpStskeeps: Yeah, that devkit lokks like a bunch O' good stuff14:34
jeremiah_torpMacer: Is it that marvel sheeva plug?14:35
johnxMacer, couldn't really see how it would be worth it, but to each his own I guess14:35
jeremiah_torpOh no, its not. :P14:35
jeremiah_torpAnd I think I should say Marvell, not marvel.14:35
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johnxmmm sheeva plug looks delicious14:36
johnxbut so does the openrd-client14:36
Macerjohnx: it's actually pretty nice14:36
Maceri have the 8139 working in it now but i really hate having that gbit one just sitting there14:36
johnxMacer, just like linux: it's a nice experience on hardware that it works well with and a constant battle in all other cases14:37
Macerit's just a network card14:37
Macerand obviously other people have been able to get it working i just have no idea how :)14:37
johnxjust don't come crying to me when you let software update run and it leaves your machine unbootable14:38
Macerspeaking of which.........14:38
Macerno i'm not going to do that just yet :)14:38
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jeremiah_torpjohnx: Wha? Debian works flawlessly on 8 architectures, 12 if you a willing to use 'unofficial' arches.14:39
jeremiah_torpLinux works on more hardware than other toy OSes. :P14:39
Stskeepseven netbsd?14:40
johnxand hardware that's only supported be creaky proprietary drivers that no one wants to touch still sucks14:40
johnxI can guarantee I can find machines that will run more stably in windows than linux14:40
jeremiah_torpjohnx: That is mostly be design.14:40
infobotjeremiah_torp meant: johnx: That is mostly by design.14:40
johnxand I don't by that hardware anymore14:40
Macerok. i'm totally at a loss14:40
Maceri have no idea how to get this working14:40
Macerthere is one last thing i can try and just pray it doesn't break the box14:40
Macerand if it does fuck it.. i'll go back to win714:41
jeremiah_torpMacer: Can you use a serial console to see the boot messages from the network card?14:41
Maceralthough. i do think i found out why kubuntu was going so slow14:41
Macerjeremiah_torp: boot messages from the network card? :)14:41
jeremiah_torpIts Kubuntu?14:41
Maceri can look at system.log and see why it's breaking14:41
Macerno.. osx14:41
jeremiah_torpMacer: Yeah, at boot time there are often some messages, at least Broadcom likes to spit out some data which may or may not be useful.14:42
* johnx sleeps14:42
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Macerwell.. the only thing i got on this last boot was that it was changing the ktext of teh Yukon2 card14:42
Maceri'm still trying to figure out how to get this damn onboard crap to work14:42
jeremiah_torpBut I guess since  you have the system logs you don't need boot messages.14:42
Maceralthough.. i thin i figured out why kubuntu was going so slow14:42
Macerthe dynamic video stuff wasn't set to "fixed" in the bios :)14:43
Macerthat sounds like something that would make a video card go slower14:43
Macerespecially if it wasn't supported properly14:43
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Macerok. think it is time to give up on this14:57
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RST38hehlo wazd15:17
RST38hhow are things15:17
Macerblah. well. looks like i am stuck with this realtek 100mbit card15:17
Maceri can't get this onboard card working15:17
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troubalexwell, it's Saturday...15:28
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Meiz_n810hi lopz15:38
lopzheya Meiz_n810 !15:38
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GnutOnMobileHi there16:01
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tuuoliotoo bad that 2 of my new n810 is died, anyone .... ? i think durability is very bad16:05
rmtYou bought multiple N810's ?16:06
rmtAnd two of them have died?16:06
ShadowJKif they are new you still have warranty left? :)16:06
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ShadowJKSeems like nokia only has 12 month warranty over there though :(16:13
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n6pfkDoing a scp of a video file, the N810 reboots before finishing the transfer.  Any ideas of what's going wrong?19:11
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VDVsxMaemo @ GSoC meeting in about 40min at #maemo-gsoc, everyone is welcome. We will discuss the status of the projects19:15
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Stskeepsi guess i'll pitch in, my ideas of maemo world domination goes fine along with the OE project ;)19:17
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tank-mann6pfk, no idea, try increasing log level and looking at logs19:24
n6pfkHow do I increase log levels?19:25
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n6pfkWhat log file should  look at?19:25
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* Stskeeps yawns19:34
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wazd_n800I'm baack =)20:23
wazd_n800qwerty12, ing?20:24
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bobpaul__anyone know offhand what size torx you need to disassemble the n800?20:25
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* RST38h yawns20:35
RST38hDone watching Fringe20:36
Stskeepsseason end?20:38
RST38hIt is kinda fun although does not quite reach SU2 or SCP level of schizophrenia20:39
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RST38hThe phrase "Can we for once have a *human* perpetrator?" lifted from SU2.20:42
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jaskaSU2 = ?21:00
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RST38hjaska: Special Unit 2, a short lived show similar to Fringe21:02
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thopiekarwhere will the councill be? "Public Maemo Community Council Meeting" sounds like this will take place anywhere or something like a voip-conference..21:27
Stskeepsirc probably21:27
thopiekarthe site says #maemo-meeting21:27
thopiekarbut isn't there a better place / platform?21:28
Stskeepslogged, transcribed, etc in one place21:28
thopiekar Monday, 8 June 2009, at 13:30 UTC .. is it 13:30 European time?21:28
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StskeepsUTC is GMT .. with some seconds difference21:29
ShadowJKWhich isn't the same as BST, which is what the brits are currently on :)21:30
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VDVsxShadowJK, BST is GMT+1 now21:31
ShadowJKisn't it always? :)21:31
VDVsxShadowJK, not in the summer21:31
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ShadowJKBST is always GMT+1, surely21:32
thopiekarwhere is germany ? gmt+1?21:32
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VDVsxgermany is CET21:32
thopiekarso the council will be for me at 15:30?21:33
ShadowJKVDVsx, germany is CEST21:33
ShadowJKin winter it's CET21:33
thopiekarsummer and wintertime..21:33
VDVsxShadowJK, sure now is gmt+2 in germany :)21:34
thopiekarso i'm right that the council will be at 15:30 at GMT+2[Germany] ?21:35
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VDVsxthopiekar, I think so :)21:35
thopiekarI lucky that I will not be at school..21:35
thopiekarI'm very interested in this discussion..21:36
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VDVsxthopiekar, but you can confirm the time here:
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thopiekarthanks VDVsx21:37
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thopiekarabout communication... the very important thing is the style of the (itt).. since the merging with I'm just confused for the new style..21:38
thopiekarhopely we will talk about that tomorrow..21:38
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thopiekarbecause I don't think that i'm the only one here..21:39
thopiekari'm not*21:39
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qwerty12_N810wrong chan, but right person ;)22:37
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kekeggI can't make wireless work on Smart Q7, any idea?22:57
lbtqwerty12_N810: ta...22:58
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lbtkekegg: mer ?22:58
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lbtgo to #mer23:00
lbtand ask there :)23:00
kekeggOK, thanks23:00
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