IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-06-05

qwerty12_N810possibly cdbs00:00
JamieBennettnope, just installed that00:00
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JamieBennettone of my packages is looking for /usr/share/python/ and I don't have it00:01
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* parigaudi is rebooting00:24
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radicuii, en locus *draufsetz*00:41
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radictach herwood01:05
radichoi minra01:05
Maceris an iso seriously this much larger than a dmg?01:05
minratach alter01:05
radicMacer: what?01:05
radicminra: dein nick klingt so weiblich#01:06
Maceri'm converting a dmg to an iso01:06
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radicMacer: what's a dmg?01:06
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minradann kannste mal loswichsen01:06
Macerradic: disc image01:07
radicminra: bekomme ich noch en bild von dir?01:07
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radicwb Locus01:07
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minrabesser ohne01:07
radicminra: wieso?01:08
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Locutus73Does anyone know what's up with
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radic<-- I drunk to much alk01:10
GAN800Locutus, it went down.01:10
radicand took GBL01:10
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locutusGAN800: whut?01:11
Locutus73damn... is there any chance to get b-man's Ubuntu image anywhere?01:12
radic*Locutus73 en bier hinstell*01:12
b-man16Loctus: are you having problems retrieving it?01:13
Locutus73yes seems to be down01:13
Locutus73various dns cannot resolve it anymore01:14
b-man16oh, no 0.o01:14
Locutus73even opendns cannot resolve it01:14
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b-man16it looks like it got tooken down :(((01:15
Locutus73any mirror to ubuntu_9.04_n8x0-2.2_rootfs.tgz ?01:15
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b-man16i'm afraid not :;(01:16
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Locutus73I hope you have a backup...01:17
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GAN800andrewfblack had to take it down.01:17
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stskeeps_properly advertised for quite a while :P01:18
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Locutus73yes, I read it on, but too late01:20
Locutus73when I decided to give jaunty a try it was too late01:21
* b-man16 calls himself an idiot for not properly preparing for this XP01:22
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Locutus73maybe someone on has a copy of ubuntu_9.04_n8x0-2.2_rootfs.tgz that can be put online somewhere01:35
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Locutus73good night, gotta go01:42
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rdvonzsomeone, someone someone someone, Help me with pyrdesktop02:02
rdvonzI keep getting a connection refused dialog.02:02
rdvonzReally? 253 idlers here.... :(02:04
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Macerthis boot 132 doesn't boot02:16
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GAN8001Jesus christ02:22
Proteousyou should rename it noboot 13202:22
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GAN8001Fuck Talk.
* GAN8001 bangs his head on the desk.
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MacerProteous: i guess i need to use a different iso to get it to boot on the shuttle02:26
Maceri figured the intel one would work02:26
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Maceromfg are you kidding me? :)02:35
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ProteousI never kid03:13
GAN800Everybody was a kid once.03:14
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Macerblah. had to download a shuttle iso to use boot 132 to install a retail ver of osx on my shuttle k4503:15
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Maceralso had to use the install term to make the fs because for some sickly apple reason.. the disk manager wouldn't work on the hd03:16
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Proteousmaybe your HD smells bad and OSX has a sensitive nose03:25
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Macerblah. this damn drive just doesn't seem to want to work03:30
Macerit can partition but for some reason it won't format.. newfs gave me a segfault03:30
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ProteousSATA driver problems?03:35
Proteousare you running it in IDE compat mode?03:35
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parigaudii'm trying to set up usb networking (as i have neither bluetooth nor wlan router)03:36
parigaudii transferred the usb statusbar .deb file to my n81003:36
parigaudibut i can't find it there in the filemanager03:36
parigaudiin what directory do the files go that i upload with my pc by using my nokia as a mass storage device?03:37
ProteousI belive that both the internal and any external memory cards show up03:37
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parigaudii have no external mem card, and as for the internal,it shows up as a vfat disk containing the two dirs "map" and "Video"03:39
parigaudithe trouble is, i can't find these dirs in the file manager of my n81003:39
parigaudiand i don't know where they are03:39
parigaudifrom within the busybox shell i tried to look around a bit03:40
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Noma/media/mmc1 or something?03:40
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Proteousyeah, it should be /media/mmc103:42
Proteousif you have an external card in it can move to mmc203:42
Proteousat least on mine it is03:42
parigaudithey are both empty here03:44
Proteousmake sure you unmount it from you PC before you try to get at the memory card03:44
parigaudioh ok03:44
Proteousif it is in mass storage mode you can't access it03:44
Proteousfrom the device03:44
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MacerProteous: i doubt it is a problem with the controller03:45
parigaudihow do i switch the n810 from mass storage mode to a mode where i can access the files?03:46
Macerit can partition the drive :)03:46
Macerit sees it .. i am trying a zero-bit erase on it now03:46
Macermaybe there is something that win had on it that is preventing it from wiping in the osx install03:46
Proteousparigaudi: unmount the drive from your computer and unplug the USB cable03:49
Proteoususualy does the trick03:49
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ProteousMacer, being able to format the drive doesn't mean it's not a SATA compatability problem03:50
parigaudiok thx03:50
Proteous<--- too much experience with fuxing SATA drivers in windows03:50
parigaudidisconnecting the cable did it (unmounting wasn't enough)03:51
ProteousMacer, as a test, if it's not already I'd go into the bios and switch it to IDE mode03:51
Proteoussee if the install works03:51
Proteousin my windows experience you can format the drive just fine in SATA mode but when you go to install it chokes and can't find partitions and such03:52
Proteousand then you realize that SATA mode doesn't add any extra features except hot swaping really and you just go with the IDE compat mode...03:53
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parigaudiwhat's the root password?03:59
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Proteousyou have to install one of the root getting programs04:01
Proteouslike becomeroot or gotroot04:02
parigaudiok thx04:03
Proteousgotta go now, good luck parigaudi04:04
parigaudigood night04:04
parigaudithanks again04:04
MacerProteous: i'll try that out when i get teh chance. right now i'm trying to zero bit it in case windows had something on there that isn't agreeing with the osx install04:04
Macerit can partition. just won't format the drive so i will try it out04:05
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Macerlol. true blood cracks me up04:12
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parigaudiwhen i try to install libicd-network-dummy_0.12_armel.deb from maemo repository (diablo),04:21
parigaudimy n810 tells me: "incompatible application package"04:21
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GAN800dummy is no longer required.04:25
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parigaudiok thx04:29
parigaudisince when?04:31
th3_4zaradowine with maemo = Yes or No?04:31
parigaudiis that already true for the version that currently ships with the n810?04:32
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GAN800parigaudi, this version or the one before.04:34
lcukth3_4zarado, yes please, red for me04:34
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parigaudiok thx04:35
parigaudiso what do i have to do on the tablet toconnect via usb?04:35
parigaudijust select "usb ethernet mode"?04:35
Andrewfblackwhere is stskeeps_ when I need him : )04:36
parigaudioh wait, is "usb ethernet" mode something where the tablet wants an usb to ethernet converter?04:37
parigaudior is it something where it tells the pc that it is an usb to ethernet converter?04:38
Macerwtf. yeah. true blood just took a strange twist04:40
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mib_fu04gehow to print the log on the console?04:52
mib_fu04gei use function called g_print,but i can't see the log.04:52
mib_fu04geis there anybody who know about it?04:53
parigaudigood nicght all04:53
LiraNunaany news on the N900?04:53
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Firebirdmib_fu04ge, the log of what?04:54
mib_fu04gethe program04:54
mib_fu04gedebug program04:54
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Firebirdmib_fu04ge, gdb?04:55
mib_fu04gelike android function log.d04:55
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mib_fu04gei want to debug a .so file04:57
mib_fu04geit is a input-method plugin04:57
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mib_fu04geFirebird,usually which tool you use to debug04:57
Firebirdgnu debugger04:57
mib_fu04geNow,i use the Eclipse to devolop04:58
Firebirdyea, I use Eclipse which uses gdb04:58
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mib_fu04geI don't know how to use it in IDE envirenment.04:59
mib_fu04gesorry, environment05:00
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mib_fu04gei build a package in eclipse,but i can't import the package,why?05:01
chx this bugs lead me to think it's possible to irc05:02
chxI googled...05:02
Firebirdmib_fu04ge, what do you mean by build a package05:02
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mib_fu04geIn Eclipse environment,i don't know how to  debug plugin.05:12
mib_fu04gei know once i run program in eclipse,it will open debug prospective.05:13
mib_fu04gebut when i debug input-method-plugins-example ,it says there is no binery file.05:13
chxPlease help! I see  osso-accounts-plugin-idle here but ... in the Application manager despite having installed the extra.install file its not there05:13
Firebirdmib_fu04ge, you need to build the source first (ctrl+b)05:14
mib_fu04geThe error: there is no binary file and i can't debug with gdb05:14
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mib_fu04geYou mean i should build a source file like *.c or *.cpp file05:15
Firebirdyou can't debug source code without compiling it05:16
Firebird(with gdb)05:16
mib_fu04gei am using the code sample05:16
mib_fu04gei just want to debug it05:17
Firebirdyou still need to build it...05:19
mib_fu04gei get from eclipse using "project from debian repository"05:19
mib_fu04gethe example05:20
mib_fu04geI know the project is a plugin example which generates a .so file in folder binary05:21
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mib_fu04gebecause i don't know where is the the .deb file in project and i build package using command 'dpkg-build -rfakeroot -b '05:25
mib_fu04gefinally i install it and it works05:27
mib_fu04gebut i really want to know how it works and i modify someting to debug it05:28
mib_fu04geI just want to know how to debug plugin project which will generate .so file but bin flile.05:30
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Macerugh.. 3 more minutes06:40
Macerand this zero-bit format that this osx install is doing to hte 1TB drive will be done06:40
Macerthis crap is killing me :) and i bet it doesn't even work06:40
ShadowJKzeri-bit format?06:41
ShadowJKzero-bit format?06:41
Macertrying to install osx on my shuttle k4506:41
Macerwith boot 132 and the retail osx dvd06:42
Macerthe specs are almost the same as a mac mini06:42
Macerbut for some reason it can partition the drive but couldn't format it06:42
Maceri figured maybe win7 had something in an awkward place that was preventing the osx install from formatting it .. i'm sure "zero-bit format" is just a dd wipe of it06:42
Macerit's supposed to be some mac crap where it wipes the entire hard drive for security purposes so nothing can be recovered off it .. i guess if you worked at the pentagon and needed to wipe it 24 times to make sure.. the osx install gives you that option :)06:43
Macerugh what a waste of time that was06:45
Macerok.. this is starting to get on my nerves06:47
Maceri think it just isn't reading this damn 1TB drive correctly06:47
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Macerone last thing and then i try one last thing06:50
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Mouseyye godz07:16
Mouseythe 900 has a SMALLER screen? =/07:16
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chxso we hear07:21
chxi cant find anything official07:21
Mouseywhy he's comparing it with the n97 escapes me, but whatever. there's a pic07:26
GAN800mockup by a 3rd party.07:27
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jonrafkindhi, I just got a nokia770. can anyone tell me what device the d-pad is attached to? there is no /dev/jsX and /dev/input/* don't seem like the right devices07:29
MouseyGAN800, "croll down tho07:31
Mouseyscroll, even07:31
GAN800Mousey, there is no 'pic'07:31
Mouseyhuh? i can see it tho, p-ain as day, part of his "update"07:32
Mouseyplain, even07:32
GAN800Mousey, what OS does it look like that 'pic' is running?07:33
GAN800No, you just think you do.07:33
Mouseylooks like maemo to me. i don't recognize the theme, or the buttons on the left07:33
GAN800What you really see is a mockup that appears to be running a mashup of OS2007 and OS2008.07:33
GAN800A mockup is not a 'pic'07:34
Mouseyawfully good mockup07:34
Mouseybut ok07:34
GAN800and that pressentation is from the Summit07:34
GAN800where the image was most certainly not pressent.07:34
infobotGAN800 meant: where the image was most certainly not present.07:35
Mouseyk. thats fine by me. i'm not sold on that anyway07:35
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Mouseygsm radio, smaller screen, think i'll stock up on 810s now that they'll be cheaper07:36
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chxMousey: thats how i got mine07:53
chxMousey: i was eyeing the Maemo devices since the 770 but the state of my wallet and the price of the desired device never met until a week or so ago when was sellling the N810 for 199.07:54
mordwhatever happened to
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RST38hPrototype NTT DoCoMo phone turns into a flute and takes your blood12:03
qwerty12Japanese phones are awesome. Only if they didn't use goddamn CDMA.12:05
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FatBoyThis question is for maemo-mapper. I've searched the forums endlessly, and googled this. Does anybody know where I can download a map tile pack for entire states at a time?12:17
FatBoyI found one website, but I have no clue how to import it into maemomapper12:17
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X-FadeFatBoy: You can specify an area to download in maemo-mapper.12:18
X-FadeBut beware that if you use a low level and select the whole US, this will be a lot of gigabytes :)12:18
FatBoySee I've tried doing that. Whenever I do that in maemo-mapper, that doesn't work. I have to enable auto-download.12:19
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FatBoyAnd then, to get the whole state, since my state isn't perfectly square, I have to select a region larger than my state, and I prefer a zoom level of 6, and that puts it at over 2gb12:20
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RST38hqwerty: Gaijins report that the phones are actually so buggy that they are pretty much unusuable12:23
RST38hqwerty: i.e. most of these new features are basically half-working gimmicks12:24
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minra-lol #topic12:25
minra-what a POS Netgear is.12:25
minra-so has the community gotten over their tantrum at the leaked designs? :)12:26
qwerty12Oh, I found that out after I found out that SSH needs patching on the N800 so that it can actually work if using a Netgear router.12:26
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minra-how you doing old man, qwerty1212:28
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qwerty12lol, I'm good, thanks, how about you?12:28
minra-still floored by my herniated disc12:29
minra-n810 is a godsend for that12:29
minra-you interested in building any fun&games stuff qwerty12 ?12:30
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qwerty12Sorry, I've been assigned the task of making NetworkManager in Mer use HildonBanner instead of libnotify stuff and I've already started the process :/12:31
floriangood morning12:32
qwerty12morning florian12:32
aquatixqwerty12: ah, good stuff12:32
aquatixbtw, isn't it an idea to write some converter that acts like libnotify, but uses HildonBanner12:32
aquatixsaves you on porting :)12:33
qwerty12Dunno how that'd work, myself, you'd probably have to change libnotify directly but I dunno what I'm talking about. :)12:35
X-FadeOk, finally clutter-gtk and clutter-cairo managed to build on the autobuilder.12:36
stskeeps_dear god, canola ui on smartq7 :P12:36
X-FadeSo now one can create clutter apps for fremantle :)12:36
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stskeeps_yes, but can you actually use it? :P12:36
Maceri gave up on osx on this shuttle k4512:36
X-Fadestskeeps_: Yes, i386 versions now also work.12:37
Macerwhat a total pain it is to get set up on non apple hardware12:37
Maceri vouched for opensolaris 2009.612:37
X-Fadestskeeps_: using mesa instead of the imagination versions.12:37
stskeeps_X-Fade: ah, i meant in terms of HD taking the compositor :)12:37
* Macer is going to shed himself of the linux disgust :)12:37
X-Fadestskeeps_: Ah, well that will be solved. I'm sure of that.12:37
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stskeeps_X-Fade: hehe, i hope so :)12:42
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rmtWoo, had about 3 downloads of my image viewing programs. :-13:02
amrooh, whats it called?13:03
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stskeeps_rmt: screenshot?13:04
rmtBoth work well, but I think that zipview is a good replacement for comics, especially combined with a zenity prompt.  I'm using it for all the Garfield comics.  One year per zip.13:05
rmtpview & zipview13:05
rmtstskeeps_, Full screen image app .. not much point. :)13:05
rmtEach corner and side does something, with top left quitting.13:05
stskeeps_rmt: ah. :P13:06
rmtI should probably introduce automatic rotation into them also.. I preprocess images before putting them on, but others may not.13:06
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amrthis looks pretty damn cool13:10
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FatBoyI have a .osm file I found online, it's maps for my whole state. How would I make that usable for maemo mapper? I've googled it a bit, and found some sort of library to export it to sqlite14:21
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FatBoyI have a .osm file I found online, it's maps for my whole state. How would I make that usable for maemo mapper? I've googled it a bit, and found some sort of library to export it to sqlite14:29
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* Meiz_n810 enjoys the silence of this channel...15:05
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* aquatix drops a vase15:12
KayDeeEeJoni got usb networking to work between my pc (gateway) and my n810. web browsing works, but at every page i browse, the connection manager pops up and wants to let me choose a wlan connection (among the closed wlans nearby)15:12
Stskeepsgrab a dummy icd plugin15:13
qwerty12_N810install the icd dummy plugin and make a new dummy connection15:13
Stskeeps(i think)15:13
KayDeeEeJoni thought that the dummy icd was no longer needed (at least i was told something like that yesterday evening here)15:13
KayDeeEeJonok thx i'll try it then15:14
qwerty12_N810that person lied :)15:14
KayDeeEeJonhehe, or maybe i just misunderstood15:14
lcukyes i saw the person say you didnt need it15:14
qwerty12_N810it's needed in diablo otherwise dummy connections aren't recognised15:15
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lcuk* yigal ( has joined #maemo15:18
lcuk<parigaudi> when i try to install libicd-network-dummy_0.12_armel.deb from maemo repository (diablo),15:18
lcuk<parigaudi> my n810 tells me: "incompatible application package"15:18
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lcuk<GAN800> dummy is no longer required.15:18
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* lcuk found it, xchat over vnc is painful15:19
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lcukjeremiah_N810, hi \o since returning (and fixing a data corruption prob..) i have been learning more about the packaging modificaitons you and kees did over the weekend15:23
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lcukive cleaned out the code and understand more now where everything sits (I spent much time learning about autotools - i built from scratch on the device!)15:23
lcukthe question i have however is dpkg returns 2 .deb packages, libliqbase1_0.2-dev-1_armel.deb and libliqbase-dev_0.2-dev-1_armel.deb15:25
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lcuki think both have the same contents, where do i look to tell each of the 2 packages what contents they should have15:26
lcukis it something specific for the makefile15:26
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KayDeeEeJonthx lcuk.15:28
KayDeeEeJonbut then the question about the  "incompatible application package" is relevant again : what do i do about that?15:29
KayDeeEeJoni mean, if i can't install  libicd-network-dummy_0.12_armel.deb, what do i do to get the dummy connection?15:29
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lbtfiferboy: hi... no luck with Qt... I was running mixed releases15:51
lbtrebuilding it all at the moment15:51
fiferboylbt: Hi.  Are you building from SVN now?15:51
lbtfrom OBS with local patches15:52
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fiferboyIs it 4.5.0?15:52
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fiferboyClose enough.  I use 4.5.0-1maemo2, I think15:53
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KayDeeEeJonok the package does install now. dunno what's different from yesterday15:57
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KayDeeEeJondespite installing libicd-network-dummy_0.12_armel.deb and executing the lines suggested by the package, i still don't see any dummy connection for choice in the connection manager16:12
KayDeeEeJonanything i did wrong here?16:12
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dnearyI just installed the latest beta, and I've been trying to get it working with Xephyr17:09
dnearyAnyone about who can help me debug?17:09
dnearyThe Xephyr window is black only17:09
luke-jrnot sure anyone actually develops with Maemo anymore17:10
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dnearyI run with DISPLAY=:117:10
luke-jrother than maybe Nokia themselves17:10
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dnearyI get this:17:10
dneary[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > start17:10
dnearyAF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/matchbox.defs' not found17:10
dnearyNote: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname!17:10
dnearySample files present.17:10
dnearyDBUS system bus is already running, doing nothing17:10
dnearyD-BUS session bus daemon is already running, doing nothing17:10
dnearyStarting Sapwood image server17:10
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dnearysapwood-server[30404]: GLIB WARNING ** Gdk - cannot open display:17:11
lcukluke-jr, dont underestimate17:11
dnearyStarting Keyboard17:11
dneary/usr/bin/ line 92: /usr/bin/hildon-input-method: No such file or directory17:11
lcukdneary, try DISPLAY:=217:11
luke-jrlcuk: you do?17:11
dnearyDoesn't look promising :(17:11
dnearyThanks lcuk17:11
lcukyeah liqbase doesnt run on mer17:11
dnearyluke-jr: lcuk is the developer of liqbase17:11
lcuki think thats what i had before17:11
luke-jrdneary: I'm well aware.17:11
luke-jrlcuk: but I mean, you develop in Maemo's SDK thing?17:11
lcukand liqbase should be runnable on all OSes for 8x0 :)17:12
dnearyluke-jr: Given your cynicism I wasn't sure17:12
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lcuklots of folks are happy with diablo and even chinook17:12
dnearyluke-jr: How else would one develop?17:12
luke-jrdneary: Mer's development tools?17:12
lcukluke-jr, i do at the moment for building package but all my source building and testing is on device itself17:12
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luke-jrdneary: I just build native.17:12
lcukluke-jr, mer does not target fremantle17:12
dneary[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > export DISPLAY=:217:12
dneary[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > start17:12
dnearyAF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/matchbox.defs' not found17:12
dnearyNote: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname!17:12
dnearySample files present.17:12
Stskeepsdneary: there's a fix for Xephyr afaik17:12
dnearyDBUS system bus is already running, doing nothing17:12
dnearyD-BUS session bus daemon is already running, doing nothing17:12
dnearyStarting Sapwood image server17:12
dnearysapwood-server[30537]: GLIB INFO default - server started17:12
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dnearyStarting Keyboard17:12
dneary/usr/bin/ line 92: /usr/bin/hildon-input-method: No such file or directory17:12
dnearyStskeeps: I heard that Xephyr crashed with fremantle17:13
Stskeepsdneary: yeah, hence a fix is needed :P17:13
dnearydidn't know it didn't work at all17:13
dnearywoglinde: pastebin?17:13
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infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : , , , ,
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lcukdneary, couldnt you get onto a batphone and try internal debugging?17:14
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dnearylcuk: batphone?17:18
dnearyDo I look like commissioner gordon?17:18
lcukwell, now you mention it...   its either that or we start calling you robin :p17:19
dnearyI have no batphone17:19
dnearyNo more than you (maybe less so)17:19
dnearySo - how do you know if Xephyr's working right? :)17:20
GAN800dneary has a Rover. I'm sure of it.17:20
dnearyI'm guessing that "/usr/bin/hildon-input-method" being missing is bad, right?17:20
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dnearyGAN800: I do have a Beagle Board tyhat I bought myself17:21
dnearyNot sure what I'm going to do with it though17:21
Stskeepsdneary: not really, it isn't needed for the desktop to run17:21
dnearyGAn800: There's a GPS in there?17:21
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GAN800dneary, nah, but Bluetooth ones are cheap and so much better than the built-in N810 one.17:24
lcukheh dneary, you gotta have more than me :P17:24
dnearylcuk: Not certain - I don't know a huge number of Maemo developers in Nokia17:25
dnearyGAN800: Do you recommend a good bluetooth GPS?17:25
GAN800Anything MTK based. i-Blue 737, 747, or 757 are my favorites (plain, logging, and solar).17:26
lcuktheres a need to sit down with them at the island retreat and eat bacon and drink beer17:26
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KayDeeEeJonyou can buy a matching island at vladi.de17:30
KayDeeEeJonfor a couple million bucks17:31
andre__KayDeeEeJon, but who cares?17:34
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GAN800'morning, sjgadsby. :)17:35
Stskeepswhen was that council meeting again? :P17:35
KayDeeEeJonandre: lcuk wrote about sitting down at the island retreat, and i found that site with its million bucks prices just funny.17:36
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sjgadsbyGood morning, GAN800.17:36
andre__KayDeeEeJon, ah. okay, missed the background :)17:36
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Stskeepsidea for battery meter.. battery capacity on left, right side has a line which shows tendancy of how much battery is being used, so thus more steep it is, the more battery it uses17:38
Stskeepsso you can see when you're really burning battery17:39
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GAN800Stskeeps, monday at 133017:49
GAN800Stskeeps, what about colors? Or transparency?17:49
Stskeepsor that17:50
Stskeepssome kind of visual indicator of how fast you're burning battery would definately be good17:50
sjgadsbyI like the idea, Stskeeps, though I'm reminded of the old saying, "Nothing hurts performance like a performance monitor."17:51
Pustelnik+∞ cokolwiek17:52
lcuka performance monitor that actively pushes its display every 1ms isnt good17:52
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lcukbut have a nice flashy one that is just a part of the envionment and its ok17:52
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Stskeepsi wouldn't mind a per-process one17:53
lcukis the info available?17:53
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dnearylcuk: Figured it out17:58
dnearyApparently I don't have nokia-binaries installed17:58
dnearyI thought it was installed if I installed "Runtime + all dev packages"17:59
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GAN800Stskeeps, what metrics would it use?17:59
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StskeepsGAN800: dunno, "how much this app will eat of your battery per hour?" :P17:59
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dnearyStskeeps: It could be like the CPU temperature monitor18:00
dnearyWould be cool18:01
dnearyA more accurate "time left on battery at current consumption" would be nice18:01
Stskeepsi would really just like a indication i'm using the tablet in a manner that will empty my battery quickly18:02
Maceropensolaris is kind of a bitch to use as a desktop still18:02
Stskeepsi wouldn't use it as a desktop, personally18:02
Maceri am right now18:03
Maceri've ironed out most of the bugs minus the inability to print on my networked printer18:03
Maceri thought it was odd they use gnome and their media player defaults its codec downloads from a commercial site charging for like... xvid decoders and other dumb shit like that18:04
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Macertotem opens some codec downloading extorting page where they try to charge you for codecs you can get for free legally18:04
Macerlike an mp4 codec :-\ i don't get it18:04
Stskeepsthere's licensing fees on things you know18:05
Maceris there?18:05
Stskeepsespecially in countries with software patents :18:06
Stskeepswe actually have a funky problem with mer about that, - we can't legally support mp3 oob18:06
Macerthat doesn't make sense. using linux you can get codecs to play these things fairly easily18:06
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Macerwhy isn't mplayer being stalked? :)18:07
sjgadsbyEasy != legal18:07
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Macerxine is another one18:07
Robot101Stskeeps: why not ask fluendo for a redistribution license for their licensed mp3 plugin?18:07
Maceri doubt anybody would sit down if they are losing out on so much over a patent18:07
Robot101Stskeeps: they give it away free18:07
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Maceris there a lic fee for xvid? :)18:08
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Macerisn't that supposed to be the open one?18:08
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StskeepsRobot101: hmm, maybe18:10
Robot101Stskeeps: it wouldn't be on the DSP, but it'd give you something with MP3 out of the box at least18:12
Stskeepswell, my view would be on all platforms i guess18:13
lcukgiving something away for free money wise might still have strings18:14
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lcukdneary - doh!18:14
dnearyAnd now, I've tried installing the whole shebang, and it doesn't do it :(18:15
lcukthere was someone talking to kotczarny this morning about battery stuffs18:15
dnearyThe following packages have unmet dependencies:18:15
dneary  maemo-sdk-debug: Depends: maemo-sdk-dev (= 5.0) but it is not going to be installed18:15
dneary                   Depends: hildon-application-framework-debug but it is not going to be installed18:15
lcukive spent best part of 3 days trying to get a single package out of mine18:15
lcukive had fist fights with gnu18:15
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fiferboyqwerty12: Thanks for the patch18:21
qwerty12oh, hi fiferboy, no problem, I needed it after having timezone & NTPD problems (LSBC worked awesomely for being able to see when the time had been set wrong) :)18:22
fiferboySo you're a C coder now?18:23
qwerty12Oh, certainly not. I've just picked up tricks :)18:23
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piotreHello, i want to encode from mic to mp3 using gstreamer and lame. but i dont get the gstreamer-plugins-ugly package. Any suggestions?18:27
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Stskeepsandre__: \o/ on 456018:38
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andre__Stskeeps, the second part is in progress too, but is a bit more complicated18:39
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Stskeepsat least i'm happy to see they got the point18:40
Stskeepswe discussed it a bit at the hw meeting so18:41
andre__well, your initial report was just great and exactly explaining the issues plus the advantages for nokia18:41
andre__so it's your fault that they got the point ;-))18:41
luke-jrwhat point?18:41
GAN800dneary, the problem with the 'remaining' number is that most people don't really know how to use it.18:42
dnearyGAN800: Agreed.18:43
luke-jr"understandably closed source" is an oxymoron18:43
GAN800A 'you're using a lot of power' indicator forces them to think about what it means.18:43
dnearyBut "less than one hour" doesn't tell me if it's 30 minutes (so I can finish the email I'm writing) or 3 minutes (so I'll save my work & finish later)18:43
andre__luke-jr, no18:43
GAN800dneary, yeah, that's stupid. A percentage is more useful.18:44
GAN800andre__, trollin', trollin', trollin'. ;)18:44
andre__GAN800, just a little bit, pleeeease! :-P18:45
dnearyHave a nice weekend all18:46
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Stskeepsluke-jr: we wouldn't complain so much about GPS driver if there was proper seperation between TI IPR and gpsdriver :P18:47
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Stskeepsand that's what i'm encouraging, if there's dbus or link protocols between things, open source the API and we can do the rest :P18:48
Stskeepslike, replace clockd, for instance18:48
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piotreHello, i want to encode from mic to mp3 using gstreamer and lame. but i dont get the gstreamer-plugins-ugly package. Any suggestions?18:48
luke-jrStskeeps: correct, but my complaint would be less because reverse engineering would become easier ;)18:49
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Stskeepswb timeless_mbp18:50
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StskeepsRobot101: the question is obviously if fluendo compiles their mp3 codec for arm too :)18:52
dnearyback for more punishment18:52
dnearyAnyone here managed to get a working fremantle beta in scratchbox at all?18:53
Robot101Stskeeps: I'm pretty sure they can do, yes18:53
dnearyI'm playing "chase the package"18:53
dnearyapt-get install maemo-sdk-dev: maemo-sdk-dev: Depends: hildon-application-framework-dev but it is not going to be installed18:53
Stskeepsdid you add nokia-binaries?18:53
fiferboydneary: I have it working18:53
dnearyapt-get install hildon-application-framework-dev: hildon-application-framework-dev: Depends: libmatchbox2-dev but it is not going to be installed18:54
dnearyapt-get install libmatchbox2-dev: libmatchbox2-dev: Depends: libmatchbox2 (= 0.2.32-1+0m5) but it is not going to be installed/ Depends: libclutter-0.8-dev but it is not going to be installed18:54
Stskeepsit smells a bit of no nokia-binaries repository?18:55
dnearyapt-get install libmatchbox2: libmatchbox2: Depends: libclutter-0.8-0 but it is not going to be installed18:55
dnearyStskeeps: I fixed that, normally18:55
Stskeepsand apt-get update'd i guess? :P18:55
dnearyThis all happened when running maemo-sdk-install_5.0beta.sh18:55
luke-jrStskeeps: does Mer use aptitude, I hope?18:55
dnearyAlthough I'm not convinced I got actual binaries - I did run the script18:56
Stskeepsluke-jr: either or18:56
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Stskeepsdneary: and you agreed to the EULA and got the token repositories?18:56
dnearyapt-get install libclutter-0.8-0: Depends: libgles2-sgx-img but it is not installable or libgles2 but it is not installable18:56
dneary"I accept"18:56
dnearyAnd they don't have any installation candidates18:57
dnearyStskeeps: Output:18:57
dnearyNokia binaries repository has now been extracted to a directory under18:57
dnearyyour scratchbox home path. Add the following line to maemo 4.1.1 diablo18:57
dnearyscratchbox targets' /etc/apt/sources.list files to make the repository18:57
dnearyvisible to Debian apt tools:18:57
dnearydeb file:/home/dneary/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.1.1 diablo explicit18:57
dnearyRun 'apt-get update' inside scratchbox to read package index files.18:57
Stskeepsnah, that's not the one18:58
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dnearyLooks like summat broke18:58
Stskeepsthis one18:58
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Stskeepsit will have libgles2-sgx-img and so on18:59
dnearyStskeeps: I have to download something other than the SDK?18:59
timeless_mbpStskeeps: hey18:59
timeless_mbpsorry, week's over18:59
Stskeepsdneary: welcome to the brave new world18:59
* timeless_mbp will be in London next week18:59
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: hehe, have a good trip :)18:59
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KayDeeEeJonis there a way to have a completion in maemo's terminal (like tab-completion, just that i don't see a tab key)?19:01
Stskeepsmaemo's terminal has tab, afaik19:01
KayDeeEeJonoh right, see it now19:01
dnearyStskeeps: I didn't see that documented anywhere19:02
KayDeeEeJonnot as a key but as a thing to click on19:02
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KayDeeEeJoni'd like to install the nokia handwriting calculator, but the link to the install file on19:07
KayDeeEeJon calculator/19:07
KayDeeEeJonleads me to a (c)rapidshare web page19:07
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KayDeeEeJonis it installable with apt-get? if so, under what name?19:08
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luke-jran IT man's wife asks him: Buy the eggs and if there are cucumbers - take 10. the guy goes to the shop and asks: - Do you have cucumbers? - Yes, we do. - Then 10 eggs please. ☺19:09
KayDeeEeJonodd though that she would ask for 10 cucumbers19:10
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KayDeeEeJoni'd rather have expected this:19:10
KayDeeEeJonan IT man's wife asks him: Buy the cucumbers and if there are eggs - take 10. the guy goes to the shop and asks: - Do you have eggs? - Yes, we do. - Then 10 cucumbers please.19:10
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woglindehm right19:11
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jeremiah_N810lcuk: Ah cool. Good to hear. I hope we didn't break anything. :)19:23
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*** timsamoff changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | Public Maemo Community Council Meeting, Monday, 8 June 2009, 13:30 UTC | Maemo Community Council | | | Warning: #maemo is perilous for your job."19:45
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GAN800Hi, Tim.19:46
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lcukjeremiah_torp, nothing broken, and the assistance you two gave has helped put stuff into context19:58
* lcuk has seen so much scrolly building code this week it made my eyes hurt19:58
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janimevening all20:02
janimups sorry, wrong channel but evening all stil =)20:03
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lcukjanim, maemo isnt the wrong channel20:05
luke-jrjust the wrong OS20:05
lcukchinook is used by lots of folks still, and diablo is extremely stable20:05
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janimlcuk: nope, it aint. but it broke my habbit of just being a lurker20:06
lcuktheres some bugs that some folks notice but lots dont20:06
zakkmdiablo is awesome! :D20:06
lcukdamn janim, you are aware now you have to speak at least a few times a day20:06
lcukyeah zakkm its the only place where liqbase will run lol20:06
zakkmlcuk: you should know last night i used liqbase to read 7,905 word "novel"20:07
zakkmsoo nice to read20:07
lcukahhh speaking of which - you called into the chan at about 5am the other mornin and asked for me20:07
lcukzakkm, its wonderful to read with20:07
zakkmyeah sorry i didnt realize timezone change20:07
zakkmyeah i lie in bed and read it, still have trouble holding the tablet though20:07
zakkmhow do you do it?20:07
lcuki am working as fast as i can to bring the apps themselves from original liqbase into the framework :)20:07
lcuki use a wooden crate20:07
zakkmim thinking of getting something to hang from my ceiling, like a piece of string and hanging it20:07
lcukbefore i had that i wedge a towel through the stand and hold the towel20:08
lcuki used to hold my pda between index and ring finger20:08
lcukand use tiny knuckle motion to move pages20:08
zakkmi started to use my stomach and then put stand up and then put it on my stomach and read, but that got quite hard after awhile20:08
* lcuk misses his loox20:08
Maceri think opensolaris sucks as a desktop20:09
zakkmosx is the only true desktop ;D20:09
zakkmnothing comes close :P20:09
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jjo tend to keep my distance20:09
Macertried to get osx on my shuttle20:09
zakkmwhat mobo is in it?20:09
Macercouldnt get the onboard nic working20:09
zakkmwhat chipset is the onboard nic?20:10
Macermarvell yukon220:10
zakkmthe marvell's suck with support20:10
Maceri noticed ;)20:10
lcukjjo, do you read with handhelds, or are you still a dead tree reader?20:10
jjolcuk: dead tree20:10
lcukis that because you havent looked or simply because you work with em for too long20:11
fiferboylbt: Major break-through in the speed department (for overshoot)20:11
zakkmsomeone just got the yukon 2 8040 workin ;p20:11
zakkmcould try that one?20:11
Macerzakkm: i did haha20:11
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lcukzakkm, this is the crate my 810 sits in20:11
jjolcuk: I haven't really looked, haven't felt the need20:12
Macerand i just didnt have it in me to use a card20:12
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lcukit rests perfectly on my belly when im reading a book in fb20:12
zakkmMacer: you could always get a cheap $2 NIC and stick that in the shuttle in pci slot?20:12
zakkmlcuk: a whole wooden piece?20:12
zakkmoh wow n81020:12
lcukyeah zakkm20:12
lcukmulti purpose tho :)20:12
zakkmthats so stupid there should be something better20:13
lcukit sits at 45degrees between my keyboard and monitor20:13
lcuki just drop 810 in it and its always there20:13
zakkmi spent like the last two nights trying to find the best position to hold it / leave it somewhere20:13
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zakkmwow i want to do thatt20:13
zakkmi awnt that keyboard hah20:13
Macerzakkm: it wasnt worth the hassle20:13
zakkmohh is the n810 inside the wooden thing?20:14
Maceri will just get a g5 or something20:14
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lcukand i can rest my wrist on the wooden side and write naturally20:14
zakkmMacer: $2 NIC isnt worth it?20:14
Macerbut osol has to go on the shuttle20:14
luke-jrzakkm: you really don't20:14
Macerosx isnt worth the nic ;)20:14
zakkmyou could also use that kext, and change the vendor id/device id to yours20:14
Maceri have a mb20:14
zakkmof course it is20:14
Maceri tried that20:14
Macerstill didnt work20:14
zakkmlcuk: hows the apple keyboard?20:14
zakkmi was thinking ofgetting that for my n80020:15
lcukits wonderful20:15
lcukbut i havent used it since i got back from the summit20:15
lcukwe had a falling out20:15
zakkmwhat happened?20:15
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lcukit was in my bag20:15
lcukand it was pressing enter20:15
lcukwhilst i was trying to give presentation20:15
zakkmdidnt you unpair it?20:15
zakkmturn off bluetooth on nokia?20:16
lcuki was in the middle of coding with it before the presentation20:16
lcuki got up shoved kb in bag and went presenting20:16
zakkmdo you have a video of it? :P20:16 the vimeo one20:16
lcukme wondering why it didnt work \@20:16
lcukonly a little bit broken thankfully20:17
lcukit seems like such a long time ago :)20:17
lcukim so pleased with the way my code is looking20:17
lcukeven though im about 10 paces back20:17
Maceri guess i will put kubuntu on it20:17
Maceri like kde way more than gnome20:17
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zakkmMacer: eww kubuntu?20:18
zakkmthey totally did rubbish with kde20:18
* lcuk prefers the window manager in XP20:18
bobpaulsay... I've been out of it for 9 mo or so... what's the status of video chat between desktop and n8x0? still just with gizmo?20:18
lcuki wish microsoft would release it for linux20:18
Macerkwin is nicer20:18
zakkm*prefers osx, and is neve rleaving it*20:18
Macerthan gnome + compiz20:18
zakkmbobpaul: yup :)20:18
zakkmbobpaul: i think ppl gavea up on video20:19
lcukno they didnt!20:19
lcuki only found it a while ago20:19
zakkmlcuk: that didnt last long at all, or did i miss it20:19
lcukits great!20:19
Macerzakkm: osx is ok. there are just wacky things it does20:19
zakkmlike what?20:19
lcukzakkm, what - the bug?20:19
Macerlike forking hfs+ metadata over smb and nfs20:19
zakkmthe keyboard thing20:19
lcukit was pressing enter the whole time20:19
Macerinto ._foo files20:19
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lcukits only stars that quits on any key20:20
zakkmMacer: heh in a few days snow leopard will get shown with ZFS support..20:20
lcukbut stars used to be my benchmark20:20
zakkmhfs+ will be no more20:20
lcuki could tell what cpu mode it was in20:20
Macerwow really?20:20
lcukand so it not showing threw me20:20
Macerthey lic it from sun?20:20
zakkmthey license it ;p20:20
Macerapple owns zfs?20:20
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zakkmroyalties and such?20:21
zakkmpaying sun to use it?20:21
Maceri would guess20:21
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Macerthank God. hfs+ was a stupid choice of fs20:21
zakkmbut yeah it has zfs support now, in leopard .. just not for initial filesystem20:21
Macerwtf? =)20:21
zakkmsystem filesystem couldnt be zfs.. but mac could always read/write to zfs20:22
Macerthat sucks20:22
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zakkmbut nextt version of mac that gets shown in 3 days / leaked.. w.e will have system zfs support20:22
Maceryou sure youre not thinking ufs?20:22
zakkmyess -.-20:22
zakkmim not a idiot20:22
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Macerso many filesystems i dont remember osx having zfs support20:23
zakkmwhatever im not googling anymore20:23
zakkmi know the has this and doesnt have this20:23
zakkmi been using computers my whole life20:23
Macernow if only they could get the wm to suck a little less20:24
zakkmthers nothing wrong with it20:24
Macerthey are totally ditching the ppc stuff too right?20:24
zakkmno more ppc support20:24
zakkmwe'd know forsurein 3 days20:24
Macerzakkm: i needed a 3rd party app to keep my mb on while the lid was closed20:24
zakkmwwdc is in 3 days20:24
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zakkmfor osx?20:25
Macerever try to change your desktop font color?20:25
zakkmi use calibri20:25
Maceryes ... osx20:25
zakkmwant a screenie?20:25
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zakkmwant a screenie?20:25
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Macerdid you have to pay for it?20:25
zakkmfont change?20:26
zakkmonesec uploadin20:26
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Macermy gripe was that these sort of things werent included in the wm itself20:26
zakkmcalibri is very nice20:26
zakkmwait macer ;p20:26
zakkmlcuk: very nice presentation ;p20:27
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zakkm osx screenie in all its glory :P20:27
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zakkmMacer: ^20:28
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cmugzakkm, how do you get the mp3 info to the top like that20:32
zakkmbowtie + theme, would you like linked?20:32
zakkmcmug: ^20:32
zakkmits itunes btw.20:32
zakkmhi lopz20:35
lopzheya zakkm20:35
Macercopying in android is kinda hard20:35
zakkmMacer: did you see the screenie?20:36
Maceryeah. thats pretty nice20:37
zakkmi know eh :)20:38
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Macerrealtek works?20:38
zakkmyeah i got a realtek 1000 chip20:38
RST38hmoo all20:38
zakkmah yeah perfectly20:38
zakkmthe mac minis use that i believe20:38
Maceroh. i have a card20:38
Maceri will drop it in and try again20:38
zakkmyou may need a driver depending, but its just a simple kext install20:38
zakkmdepending on the particular card20:38
zakkmMacer: boot with -f -v20:39
Macerthats what i thought about the marvell20:39
Macerusing boot 132?20:39
zakkmnah nah20:39
zakkmi use chameleon20:39
Macerdo you choose large for the hd type?20:39
zakkmMacer: 100% support, never needed to install a kext20:40
Macerin the normal bios?20:40
zakkmi left it auto20:40
zakkmi installed with guid though, not mbr20:40
Macerwhen i installed chameleon i got an error20:40
Macerme too20:40
Macergot hfs+ and some other stuff and had to keep booting with the disc20:40
Macererror 15 or something20:40
zakkmcome back and pm me, we really shouldnt channel chat this stuff hah20:41
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Macerhaha. ok. i will see if youre around later20:41
Macerbut i will try the realtek20:41
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zakkmwhen you do it , pm me20:41
Macersure. thanks20:41
zakkmseriously sweet scrennie eh?20:41
zakkmi work hard skinning :)20:41
zakkmits a weird hobby of mine20:41
Macerthat is pretty awesome20:42
zakkmi have a better wallpaper that works, but its not dark and at night i like dark20:42
Maceri like your menu bar20:42
zakkmits a 22" WS monitor20:42
zakkmyeah i preferit black20:42
Macerme too ;)20:42
zakkmand calibri for soem reason gives me soo much more menu bar space20:42
Maceri will msg you when i get a chance20:42
Macerwatching my son now20:42
* zakkm feels young :) 20:43
Macerhe's 3 :-P20:43
Macerim only 29 damnit!20:43
Macerbbl ;)20:43
* lcuk is older20:43
lcukbut beyond a certain age you can get away with forgetting exactly how old20:44
RazumihinInternets are getting old :(20:44
zakkm18 <-- age20:44
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RazumihinIt would be nice to know how the median age of irc users has varied over time.20:45
jeremiah_torpHas anyone installed the SDK+?20:47
jeremiah_torpIt is flaking out on my20:47
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JaffaMorning, all20:50
jeremiah_torpHey Jaffa, moo RST38h20:50
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Macerzakkm: stop while youre young!20:54
Macerhurry up and get outside20:54
zakkmstop growing?20:54
zakkmi have like 6 different plans today with 6 different ppl20:54
zakkmim so busy with plans i have to cancel alot20:54
Macergood! =)20:55
Macerjust remember that irc is just a bunch of scrolling text people20:55
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Macerlike fight club single serving friends20:55
zakkm2 malls with different ppl, tim hortons ( coffee, donut and such / chilling ) , nephews soccer game, going to friends house promised him ill give him my old harddrive cause his current 14gb got full and i got a extra 160gb,20:55
zakkmgoing to library to study with another friend20:56
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zakkmhe has a old p3 1ghz20:56
Macerouch =)20:56
Macercruel world20:56
zakkmhes so full , and i got my old 160gb just sitting in my room20:56
zakkmwell hes not tech savvy at all20:56
zakkmits just for school/ a bit of music20:56
zakkmits not like a huge multimedia gaming computer20:57
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Maceri'd hope not! haha20:57
Macer"checj this doom game out dude!"20:57
zakkmwell he plays risk but thats only like 60mb, and thats his whole compute rgames20:57
zakkmbut yeah its full and i figure ahh 160gb20:58
zakkmbut yeah  i go out and such20:58
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qwerty12_N810be fair. quake 2 ran on my 733MHZ P3 :P20:58
zakkmhes saving up for a lappy for university20:59
zakkmgoing to ottawa ( canada's capital ) for uni20:59
Macerzakkm: well. i'm going to head into my lair20:59
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zakkmis that code for something?20:59
Macermy mother is picking up my son to take him to the park and mcdonalds20:59
zakkmeww mcdonalds20:59
zakkmso expensivee20:59
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zakkmive found it very expensive, maybe its just here20:59
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Macershit. if it gives me a break i'd buy him a steak21:00
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zakkmgood and bad to hear21:00
zakkmnice to know you spoil him :)21:00
Macerit is a full time job after the full time job ;)21:00
Maceri try to haha21:00
zakkmi have a 4 year old nephew i lovee to spoil :)21:00
Macerhe is a great boy. glad i got a good one21:00
Macersome kids make me want to hit them with baseball bats21:01
Maceryet true21:01
Macermy son is pretty mellow21:01
zakkmteaching him the ins and outs of computers yet?21:01
zakkm3 years old is a good time to start if you are :P21:02
Macermy ex gf had a son that was wired up on life. he put my son to shame on the hyperactive meter21:02
Macerzakkm:  i try21:02
zakkmi taught my nephew at 3 years old, youtube :P21:02
zakkmhe comes over for sleepovers sometimes, kicks me off my computer.. goes on youtube and clicks on vids and such21:02
zakkmstands up on the chair changes the speaker volume21:02
zakkmall on his own21:03
Macerhahahahaha.. my son knows where the noggin bookmark is =)21:03
Macerit's scary21:03
fiferboyMacer: I've got a mellow 3 year-old too!21:03
zakkmcan even play someee flash games, but not many21:03
Maceri dont want him to be a cave child21:03
zakkmwhats a cave child?21:03
Macerinside with video games all damn day long21:03
zakkmthatss teribble21:04
Macerkids dont go outside anymore =)21:04
zakkmhe should go out21:04
Macerhe does21:04
zakkmat 3 ;P but lateron too21:04
zakkmwhy would you wish he was a cave child?21:04
zakkmsafe at home?21:04
Maceri said dont want him to be one ;)21:04
zakkmohhh lol im tiredd21:05
Macerbrb. heading to this shuttle to do this boot 132 stuff again21:05
Macerand pray the realtek works21:05
zakkmboot with -f -v21:05
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Macerfrom the 132 cd?21:05
zakkmif you boot with that21:06
zakkmrd=disk0s2 -f -v21:06
zakkmsort of thing21:06
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Macerthe disk would be disk0s121:06
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zakkmk then rd=disk0s1 -f -v21:06
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Maceri was using the master sata 1 partition 1tb drive21:06
Macerok. have to put the card in .. if youre going to be around i'll msg21:07
zakkmyeah for another 30min or so - ish21:07
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fiferboylbt: ping?21:57
lbtstill building locally :)21:57
fiferboyI have a way better solution than my previous one.21:59
lbtnah, trying to figre out a DVCS/packaging solution is fun .... not!21:59
fiferboyFaster, simpler, better.21:59
lbtTBH I haven't looked at the paint code ... I started and then got stuck on making the damn thing run22:00
fiferboyNo extra functions, only local variables, same speed as your previous solution, none of the problems of my previous solution22:00
fiferboyActually, I don't touch the paint code in either solution.22:00
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lbthave you tested it on qt4-demos ?22:01
fiferboyI was going to look into that, then I got into using setViewportMargins22:01
fiferboyNo, I'll have to install those.  Do they run well enough on the tablet, or should I try them in scratchbox?22:01
lbttablet is a good test...22:02
lbtyou can't see the text in the main menu though22:02
fiferboyI'll give it a try (if I have enough room left on my device)22:03
KayDeeEeJonthe qt version installable from the maemo site seems to be a 4.3.2  ??22:03
lbtextras is higher IIRC22:03
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KayDeeEeJonok thx22:03
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KayDeeEeJonis there a site/page that presents the packages in extra link the maemo site does for the 2008 packages?22:09
infobotKayDeeEeJon meant: is there a site/page that presents the packages in extra like the maemo site does for the 2008 packages?22:09
zakkmKayDeeEeJon: theres the repository url?22:09
GAN800Erm, 'packages in extras'?22:10 _is_ the packages in Extras22:10
GAN800But, no, there's not yet a packages.maemo.org22:11
KayDeeEeJondo the packages in extras all show in the categories-based menu at
andre__hmm, are there any public screenshots of the fremantle file browser somewhere?22:14
* andre__ wondering22:14
andre__now should i close as wontfix or not? sigh22:18
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Stskeepsandre__: we havent seen file manager officially yet22:22
andre__Stskeeps, ah good. So I shouldn't leak too much :-P22:22
fiferboylbt: I had to uninstall some things, but qtdemo is running.22:22
fiferboyAny way to full screen it?22:23
fiferboyGot it, button in the bottom right22:23
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zakkmandre__: you know everything in fremantle that others dont?22:28
* Jaffa saw a nice ARM-based netbook due for release shortly with a rotating tablet/netbook screen (on a Java SE Embedded stand)22:29
Stskeepsif he has to be efficient punching bag internally and externally, he prolly has to22:29
andre__zakkm, haha, no... but a few things at least22:29
zakkmandre__: how?22:29
fiferboylbt: Found a problem with table/listviews22:30
Stskeepsits prolly called a magic nda22:30
fiferboyAs the documentation says, I have to take into account header space (margins)22:30
lbtfiferboy: yeah....22:30
andre__zakkm, i have access to the internal bugtracker, and that seems to mean that i also have access to some docs (and i sometimes think that nokia maybe does not know the latter)22:30
fiferboyShouldn't be too bad to fix (hopefully)22:30
zakkmandre__: hahh awesome22:31
andre__at least it's helpful to get the job done a bit better imo22:31
fiferboylbt: Now I forget, what did your code do when scrolling with headers on?22:31
fiferboyLeave a gap between the header and the contents when overshooting?22:31
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lbtthat would be nice22:32
lbtmakes sense too22:32
fiferboyI think it is the easiest, too :)22:33
lbtyes, it should be22:34
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fiferboylbt: Fixed it for left-to-right layouts, right-to-left should be a simple addition22:41
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fiferboyr-t-l will be harder to test, though :)22:41
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fiferboylbt: The problem is fixed, but it is a little disconcerting to have the items scroll while the headers stay in place.22:50
lbtdon't spreadsheets do that?22:51
fiferboyFor example, scrolling vertically with horizontal headers on, the list moves past the end but the headers on the side stay in place.22:51
fiferboySpreadsheets don't normally scroll past their limits, do they?22:51
fiferboyDo you want a screenshot of what I am talking about?22:53
lbtso they no longer line up...22:55
lbtin overshoot22:55
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fiferboyYes, I would think the proper thing to do would be have the header scroll off with the itme23:01
fiferboyBut I'm not sure how to accomplish that.  It could be as simple as translating the appropriate header by the same amount23:02
fiferboyBut how to find out if the widget is using headers?23:02
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lbtfiferboy: I think we need to implement overshoot in the instantiated widgets too23:09
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lbtQGraphicsView, QMdiArea, QPlainTextEdit, QScrollArea, and QTextEdit.23:10
lbtie not 'abstract'23:10
fiferboyAh.  Instead of in QAbstractScrollArea or in addition to?23:11
lbtvirtual ?23:11
lbtso where the behaviour of the class demands a re-implementation of overshoot23:12
fiferboySo the instantiated widget will override the abstract implementation?23:12
lbteg when it displays headers23:12
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fiferboyThat sounds reasonable.  More work, but reasonable23:12
lbthere my formal language breaks down23:12
lbtbut I think virtual methods23:12
fiferboyAnd QWebView needs its own implementation anyway23:13
lbtyeah, IIRC it reimplements QASA23:14
fiferboyI think QGraphicsView is fine with the abstract implementation, as is QScrollArea23:14
lbtbut we should be able to seperate out the fingerscroller and reuse it23:14
lbtheh... the cat sat on my wife's printscrn button23:14
lbtshe has 70 knsnapshots now23:15
lbtand climbing  ROFL23:15
fiferboyQAbstractItemView doesn't use headers itself, but QTableView and QListView do.23:15
lbtInherited by QColumnView, QHeaderView, QListView, QTableView, and QTreeView.23:16
fiferboylbt: I will send you my latest changes.  We should be happy with the base implementation before we make others23:16
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lbtpart of the reason for just having the overshoot23:17
lbtwas to allow this "tuning"23:17
lbtanything inheriting QASA may now need to implement (or stub) the overshoot to get sane behaviour though :(23:18
lbtI've asked gnuton to get the Qt guys to review the code and discuss the implementation design23:18
fiferboyPerhaps it would be better to break the finger scrolling into more functions so anything inheriting QASA can just override small portions.23:19
fiferboyI could easily make a drawOvershoot(int x, int y) funtction that will allow other widgets to keep the bulk of the QASA finger scrolling code23:19
lbtwell, to my mind we have fingerscroll and overshoot23:19
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lcuki gather scrolling upto the boundary is respected much better23:21
lcukie doesnt make the functions for headers etc break because the abstractitem is always within expected bounds23:22
fiferboylcuk: I haven't come across any issues with scrolling within the boundaries23:22
fiferboylcuk: Correct23:22
lcukthen put that in a stand alone clean simple patch23:22
lbtI did23:23
lcukthat works everywhere and is stable23:23
lbtgnuton wanted bounce23:23
lcukyes, bounce will need more work obviously ;)23:23
lbtand that's what we're doing....23:23
lbtAFAIK the fingerscroll is clean23:23
fiferboylbt: The per-pixel vs per-item is also, AFAIK, a QAbstractItemView-only problem23:24
lbtI should really have these in discrete branches in gitorious23:24
lbtfiferboy: is it?23:24
fiferboyYes, the QAbstractItemView has the functions for setVerticalScrollMode and setHorizontalScrollMode23:25
lcuklbt, if i were implementing a header in lb, i would have it offset by the actual xy of the contents - is the overshoot "faking" the position of the item, or are the headers specifically looking for data within 0..w23:25
lbtah yes23:25
fiferboylcuk: The headers are distinct widgets drawn in a margin of the item view23:25
fiferboyThey scroll in step, but changes to the viewport margins affect them strangely23:26
lbtI am very uncomfortable overriding ScrollPerItem23:26
lcukyeah, with event handlers based on the move event of the contents23:26
lbtif the dev sets that... then you get that.23:26
fiferboylbt: I changed the QAbstractItemView code to default to ScrollPerPixel in my build :)23:26
lbtif making the app tabletfriendly needs a change then do it in the app23:27
fiferboyThere is an argument for changing the default (but still allowing override) especially on a tablet with a small screen23:27
lbtI don't mind adding to the framework, but overriding the developer.... sorry, we don't know best :)23:27
lbtwell, the problem is that the default is documented23:28
fiferboyIf you item height or width is larger than the viewport available on the tablet you will never be able to see the edges of that item (if ScrollPerItem is on)23:28
lbtso you don't know if they were lazy23:28
lbtor badly wanted the default23:28
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lbtand didn't need to code it :)23:28
fiferboylbt: True23:28
fiferboyIf they see their desired behaviour is the default they won't explicitly override it23:29
lbtI think if an app has items that large23:29
lbtthen we need to change the app23:29
lbtso I will strongly suggest we don't break the defined behaviour23:29
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fiferboylbt: I agree, I just did that on my build so I wouldn't have to change the default of every scroll area in my program23:30
lbtgnuton also does some 'clever' tricks in the framework to hack on menu items too23:30
fiferboyIn other words, I was lazy23:30
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fiferboyWell, I have to go23:31
lbtthanks for this...23:31
fiferboyLooks like there is more work than I thought left for finger scrolling...23:31
lbtdrop me what you have :)23:31
fiferboyIt should be sent now23:31
lbtgot it23:32
fiferboyWhen we decide what should be done next I'll start working on something23:32
lbtI'd like to get this sorted and into gitorious23:32
lbtand then see gnuton's tree in there23:33
fiferboyThat is probably a good next move.  I'll really have to learn more aobut GIT23:33
* lbt nods23:33
fiferboyFortunately there is some good documentation ;)23:33
fiferboyTalk to you later.23:33
lbtlots of tutorials too ;)23:33
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