IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-06-03

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ryoohkifind . -size +1024 doesn't work - it's busybox find -- how can i find files larger than a size, say 1 meg?00:32
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zakkmryoohki: shouldnt it be find *  .. not find .00:37
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* timeless_mbp looks for a nokian00:44
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ryoohkizakkm: no - "." current dir -- recurse descending from here00:52
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ryoohkiis there a way to rebuild the list of installed packages?01:04
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qwerty12_N800Trying to install findutils but finding busybox conflicts?01:05
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CutMeOwnThroatall these intentionally-broken busybox commands also grate on my nerves01:10
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nomisintentionally broken?01:16
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lbtminimally implemented01:16
qwerty12_N800technically, nokia didn't help. Look at debian/config_deb in busybox source package and you'll see what I mean01:17
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z4chhim a beast at blocks01:46
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lcuk:D:D:D:D:D:D    i have all my data back thanks to KotCzarny's suggestion of testdisk.01:57
* lcuk wishes he could donate to the testdisk guys01:58
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qwerty12_N800I used CmosPwd once, killed my CMOS *grin*01:58
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zakkmlcuk: yeah testdisk is nice01:58
zakkmsaved my ass tons of times01:58
lcukyeah zakkm i am in awe :)01:59
zakkm250gb totally failed on me, nothing could read partitions, failed a SMART test.. recovered most of it01:59
lcukyeah well ive got everything back right upto the point when it corrupted itself01:59
zakkmcool thing is, its crossplatform too01:59
lcukyeah and it read from the file i backed up last night02:00
zakkmit also has photorec , for recovering photos and such from flash cards02:00
zakkmso if your camera ever corrupts the card :P02:00
lcukyeah its good02:00
Macerthe saga continues02:00
zakkmits more getting it to read, rather than recovering long lost deleted files thats been overwritten02:00
lcukits not Macer its done now :P02:01
zakkmlike i dont think it can go past one overwrite02:01
lcukmy saga02:04
lcukor were u on about something else02:04
Maceroh. i dont know. it was one of those mindless things02:05
lbtyou needed insurance?02:06
lcuki didnt think macer was old enough02:07
Macerold enough for what?02:07
lcuksaga insurance02:07
Maceryou never know02:08
hubwhat does that mean "Incompatible package" in the application installer...02:08
Macerwas watching a show about bikini atoll02:08
lbtmmm bikinis02:09
Maceranother civilization pushed out of their home by the white man =)02:09
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lbtbimbos are a civilisation?02:09
Macerhm. im+ seems to be randomly disconnecting from my zimbra server02:10
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z4chhwhoa, has anyone tried the hildon borg theme?02:34
hubz4chh: I didn't get assimilated02:35
z4chhhub, i did :\02:35
z4chhresistance was futile :S02:35
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z4chhthe borg theme is not bad..but needs work o_o02:36
hubask the collective02:38
z4chhhub, already did..the second i thought that02:39
z4chhwe are one02:39
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z4chhomg i didn't realize how good some of these star trek themes are02:40
lcukapart from 7 of 9, she is a pair02:40
z4chh7 of 9 broke off from the collective02:40
z4chhim liking this klingon theme!02:40
lcuk7 of 9 is enhanced02:42
lcukshe has silicone nanobots :D02:42
z4chhdon't all borg?02:43
hubmore seriously, what does "Incompatible Application Package" mean in the Application Manager02:43
lcukonly the females lol02:43
qwerty12_N800hub: == use dpkg -i to install02:44
z4chhhub, ^^02:44
lcukhub, its caused by an incompatability in the packaging - usually the package requests one dependency and its not available02:44
z4chhhub, ^^ also02:44
hublcuk: but then I can install the dependencies.02:44
lcukeasiest is remove all none nokia or maemo repositories02:44
hubthey are on the SD card02:45
hubI just built them02:45
qwerty12_N800hub: package section doesn't begin with user/02:45
lcukthe package manager wont look there tho..02:45
hubuser/office for the main package02:45
hubbut then I need the dependencies...02:45
hubwhy having an "install from file" if it does not work02:46
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qwerty12_N800It's also used for ".install" files and debs with user/ section & deps installed...02:47
hubyeah but I can't install the deps for the reason mentionned above02:48
hubeven if they are in extras....02:48
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qwerty12_N800Yeah, that is a shit point of the app manager: it refuses to resolve deps for debs installed from local02:49
hubok so I'm not on crack02:50
hubaok the red pill mode helped...02:50
hubat least that part we have the source code :-)02:50
qwerty12_N800Sure it's a dep problem then? red pill mode skips the user/ check but it still won't resolve deps02:51
hubwell I installed librsvg2-2 in red pill mode02:52
huband then my package installed02:52
hubso yes02:52
hubit was02:52
hubthe user/ check02:52
hubI was not in red pill mode when I asked the question02:52
GeneralAntillesjeremiah_, ping?02:53
huband I was trying to install the .deb I fetched from extra02:53
hubthat were missing deps02:53
hubbut applicaiton manager could just have installed them....02:53
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* GeneralAntilles sees geneven's paranoia is showing more than usual.03:00
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hubqwerty12_N800: thanks at least for the hints03:03
qwerty12_N800np, glad you figured it out & sorted it03:04
GeneralAntillesAh, the idiocy.03:05
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lcukgive me strength!03:09
lcuki am trying to build some gnu tools on the device03:09
lcukautoconf being one03:09
lcukwhich needs a decent grep03:09
lcukso i got gnu grep03:09
lcukand this happens in the configure script for it:03:09
lcukchecking for grep that handles long lines and -e... configure: error: no acceptable grep could be found in /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/xpg4/bin03:09
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GAN800lcuk, goodlcukwiththat03:26
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jophishI hope Nokia updates their touchscreens, because Resistance is futile!03:50
Firebirdnope, not happening03:50
neostriderhey folks03:50
Firebirdjophish, resistive touch offers more accuracy though03:51
jophishI was making a joke about z4chh's link03:51
neostrideranyone doing "Mer" around here?03:52
z4chhjoelmaher, nice joke ;p03:52
neostrider(or any other alternative OS on the tablets?)03:52
jophishneostrider, you might want to try #mer03:53
jophishI see your already there03:53
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hubI'd settle for no bevel around the screen :-)03:59
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Macerhate it when hellanzb screws up04:20
wjs_ltopHello people..  I've finally gotten around to messing with getting A2DP working again after the last flash update.  Now I'm wondering about AVRCP04:28
wjs_ltopI haven't found an a2dpd that was mentioned in older posts, is it no longer used?04:28
wjs_ltopOne of the posts in the johnx thread mentioned a kernel module found and loaded, but never mentioned where.04:29
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neostriderwhats the root password?04:29
wjs_ltopI'd post this in the forums, but my posting privledges are nonexistant since the move from internettablittalk04:30
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Macerthey changed the domain name? :)04:36
Macerthat kinda sucks.04:36
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skiburis it just me or does mer not have a lot of apps?04:55
skiburI see  ubuntu 9.04 on the Catalogues, but no apps.04:56
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wjs_ltopWhat's with the stuff..  They have directories including a bluez-utils-3.905:10
wjs_ltopwe are on 3.2805:10
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Macera fang banger hahaha05:16
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skiburdo I use # to comment out deb links in .list?06:08
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zakkmskibur: yup06:08
skiburmaking sure06:09
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cmugDoes that Borg theme work in Fremantle too06:18
zakkmprobably not06:18
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mib_hux90awhy there is no function pointer named gtk_calendar_realize in gtk class gtdcalendar.09:05
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mib_hux90ai find the api reference,but i can't find out09:07
mib_hux90ait is a function pointer i should modify in my class.09:07
mib_hux90ais there anybody who can help me?09:07
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Proteouseveryone is alseeeeeppp09:10
Proteousasleep even09:10
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* Myrtti is having morning coffee09:11
Proteouseveryone is having morning cooffeeeeeeeeeeeeee09:11
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MyrttiProteous: snap out of it09:11
* Proteous is going to make coconut macarooooooonnnsssss09:11
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Proteouseasiest cookie ever but still tasty09:12
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Proteousequal parts by weight of coconut and condensed milk, a little salt and a few beaten egg whites DONE09:13
Proteouswell, you have to cook them for a bit09:13
Proteousand maybe melt some chocolate and dip them if you want to go the extra mile09:13
Proteouswhich I do09:13
Proteouscause that's just how I roll09:13
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ProteousI roll, you know, the extra mile, cause, yeah, I shut my engine off to conserver gas, and well, it's downhill anyway....09:14
ProteousI also seem to add extra RRRRs to things randomly09:14
Proteousso watch out for that09:15
Proteoushide your children09:15
Proteousextra RRRs on the prowl09:15
Proteoustiver me shimbers09:15
RXrenesis8the prrrowl09:15
mib_hux90awhy there is no function pointer named gtk_calendar_realize in gtk class gtdcalendar09:20
inzwhy would there be?09:20
mib_hux90ai think the class shoud contain it,and i can modify and implement different function.09:21
inzThe class has realize method, for sure, but you don't need to know the function name to override it09:22
mib_hux90awill it show in class09:24
inzWhat do you want to do?09:27
mib_hux90ai can't find g_object_class discription in gtk+ api reference.who can help me find?09:28
mib_hux90ai want to realize a method09:28
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inzIt's in GLib API reference09:28
inzWhat do you mean realize a method?09:28
mib_hux90ai want to modify parent class function and implement my function09:29
mib_hux90athe parent class should provide the function pointer,but i can't find it09:29
inzSo you want to override a method and call the parent implementation from yours?09:30
mib_hux90ai find in api reference,but i can't find09:30
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mib_hux90ai am reading code sample about input-method-plugins09:31
mib_hux90afor example,i should modify  gwidgetclass function pointer named realize09:32
mib_hux90acan you find it in gtk+ api reference 5.009:33
mib_hux90ahimExample_vkb_class_init (HimExampleVKBClass *klass)09:34
inzNormally in GObjects you store pointer to the parent class in a static global in your class_init (you can get the parent class with g_type_class_peek_parent();09:34
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inzAnd then you do GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize(self); in your implementation of realize09:35
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inzWhere would you need gtk_calendar_realize here?09:36
mib_hux90athat is just a example09:36
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mib_hux90awhat i want to find is the realize function pointer in GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize(self)09:37
mib_hux90ai want to the location of realize pointer09:38
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mib_hux90awhere is the location of realize pointer?09:38
inzWhy do you need it?09:39
inzTo function pointer is GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize;09:39
mib_hux90ai want to realize my own function09:39
inzYou don't need the function pointer for that09:39
inzWhy would you?09:40
mib_hux90awhy i don't need it ?09:40
mib_hux90ai think the api should provide me with it09:41
mib_hux90awidget_class->realize       = realize_cb09:41
mib_hux90ayou see this line09:41
mib_hux90athe realize_cb is my own function name09:42
mib_hux90ait can realize my function,but i want to know the location of realize09:42
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inzErm, why?09:43
mib_hux90athe realize should be the parent function,is it right?09:43
mib_hux90athe parent class function.09:44
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inzIf you don't want to implement your own realize, just remove the line09:44
inzAnd only the parent gets called09:44
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mib_hux90ai think this is just one of the interface function09:45
mib_hux90abut i should know where i can see the discription about it ?09:45
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mib_hux90ait is a member of gwidget class,is it right?09:47
inzGtkWdget, yes09:48
inzThe documentation for gtk_widget_realize() should tell what the method is supposed to do09:48
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mib_hux90abut it is not a pointer09:51
mib_hux90ahow i should modify it and make it point to my function name?09:52
inzYou do the widget_class->realize = my_realize; thing you mentioned earlier09:53
mib_hux90ais there another realize method for gtdwidget which is a pointer?09:53
mib_hux90ayeah,i just can't understand this line clearly09:53
mib_hux90awhere is the realize for gtkwidget class09:54
inzYou don't need that either09:54
inzYou just set your own realize and call the parent class's realize from your own implementation09:54
mib_hux90awhere is g_object_class type conversion?09:56
inzi.e. your realize would look something like this: void my_realize(GtkWidget *widget) { GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize(widget); /* do your stuff here */ }09:56
inzmib, normally the headers provide the convenience macros for casting the classes09:57
inzBut that's just for type safety, technically you could just cast them09:58
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mib_hux90awhere is the GTK_WIDGET_CLASS discription?09:58
mib_hux90ayeah ,i just can't find macros GTK_WIDGET_CLASS09:58
mib_hux90aIn api reference09:58
inzYeah, they're not documented09:59
inzYou just assume it's there09:59
mib_hux90athanks,inz and i want to find more useful parent_class funtion like realize10:01
mib_hux90ahow to find the discription relative to it ?10:01
inzthe best way to see the list of methods is to check the header10:01
inzThe signal list for the class also works10:02
mib_hux90ais there no the method like realize in the api reference.10:02
mib_hux90aIn this page,i can't find the realize's discription.10:04
inzmib, see gtk_widget_realize10:04
mib_hux90athis is api reference.10:04
inzyes, and it's bad10:04
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mib_hux90agtk_widget_realize is the same as the 'realize' GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize(widget);10:05
mib_hux90athe twe realize means the same function10:06
inzWell, yeah10:06
mib_hux90ai am still not clear10:06
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inzgtk_widget_realize(widget) will essentially do GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(G_OBJET_GET_CLASS(widget))->realize(widget);10:07
mib_hux90ayou mean gtk_widget_realize(widget) just is a part of the later10:09
inzNo, gtk_widget_realize will call the latter10:10
inzAs C does not have class-paradigm, there's no way to conveniently call the method, so a convenience function is provided10:11
Stskeepsok, n810 gps isn't 100% crap but it could be better :P10:11
inzBut the convenience method usually describes what the real method does10:11
inzSts, five-nines?10:11
Stskeepsmore like it loses fix at odd times10:12
Stskeepsi'm fairly happy with it though10:12
mib_hux90athanks inz. for giving me so much help10:12
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Maceri'm still watching true blood10:15
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mib_hux90awidget_class->expose_event  = expose_cb; in this line, where is the expose event protype in gtk+ api reference docment10:26
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mib_hux90ainz,thanks.i found it10:28
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mavhchas there been any conclusion about why the gps isn't that good? software, hardware?10:33
Stskeeps_well, agps helps10:33
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mavhcI noticed tomtom has a thing to download "this week's satellite position predictions" from the internet10:34
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Stskeeps_isn't that essentially AGPS? :P10:35
Myrttisince when has NXXX been mainly for GPS anyway ;-)10:36
Myrttiit's a "nice to have" but I wouldn't call it the main feature of the thing10:36
MyrttiNumpty Physics is!10:36
Stskeeps_Myrtti: i wouldn't mind some location based apps10:36
MyrttiStskeeps_: me neither, but I wouldn't buy it just for the sake of GPS10:37
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Maceri started to watch true blood and can't stop11:08
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RST38hHeh, looks like OpenGL is out of the question in Fremantle for now11:13
X-FadeRST38h: It always was?11:14
X-FadeRST38h: OpenGL-ES is supported by hardware, which isn't OpenGL.11:14
X-FadeAlthough my understanding is that porting an OpenGL 2 app to OpenGL-ES, should not be that hard.11:15
X-FadeBut porting from 1.0 is.11:15
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RST38hX-Fade: No OpenGL ES either.11:16
X-FadeRST38h: You know that is not true ;)11:17
X-FadeThere is just this compositing issue.11:17
RST38hX-Fade: If it is not fixed, the above statement is true11:18
X-FadeThere is work being done in multiple places for that. It is about only being able to have one context?11:19
X-FadeRST38h: But Fremantle and a device aren't out yet, so this point is really not interesting yet.11:20
RST38hX-Fade: It is time to start whining already though =)11:20
X-FadeI'm sure Imagination ech is getting kicked already..11:21
RST38hX-Fade: I do not think ImageTech is to blame11:23
RST38hX-Fade: For full-screen applications, the desktop should just surrender the context to the app11:23
X-FadeRST38h: true, although how would you show applicatin notifications on top?11:24
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RST38hX-Fade: You won't11:26
RST38hX-Fade: If the app takes over screen updates, it is agood hint to desktop to shut up11:26
X-FadeAnd that is probably not acceptable either.11:26
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X-FadeRST38h: If you have an incoming call for instance or you are running out of battery, you want something in your screen to notify you about it?11:27
RST38hX-Fade: for the call, I want the app suspended and the phone app started11:27
RST38hX-Fade: For *anything* else including the battery, I want he desktop to shut up.11:28
RST38hX-Fade: Ok, maybe an audio or LED warning about the battery.11:28
X-FadeIn Fremantle all applications are essentially full screen apps.11:29
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RST38hX-Fade: By full screen I mean real full screen11:29
RST38hX-Fade: as in DirectDraw "exclusive" screen mode, Symbian DirectScreen, Unix console ownership, etc11:30
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X-FadeI'm not sure if, for these devices, we need to think about this desktop like paradigm of exclusively owning a screen.11:31
RST38hX-Fade: We should not. We should let app developers own the screen if they want to.11:31
RST38hX-Fade: Everybody else including Symbian/S60 does that.11:31
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X-FadeRST38h: But wouldn't that change the complete integrated experience?11:32
RST38hX-Fade: Excluding this ability will automatically cause a shitstorm from developers11:32
RST38hX-Fade: Well, it does not for the S60 phones11:32
RST38hX-Fade: Nor for Windows, where games often take over the screen11:32
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X-FadeI wonder how we would consistently switch back to the desktop now there doesn't seem to be a home button anymore.11:33
RST38hX-Fade: I am sure there will be SOME button :)11:33
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X-FadeRST38h: Wasn't there on the developer device, which should have been feature complete for developers? :)11:34
RST38hNo idea :)11:35
RST38hBut it would be weird if Nokia released a completely buttonless device11:35
RST38hNot very nokia like11:36
X-FadeNo, there were some buttons. But those were zoom, power and I think camera button.11:36
keesjI guess that the maximize button on top can now be used for that11:36
X-Fadekeesj: Do you remember if that one was there?11:37
keesjthere where some button there yes11:37
X-FadeYeah, but exactly which ones ;)11:37
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keesjdon't know sorry11:37
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lcukthere was a zoom button?11:49
* lcuk ooohs11:49
keesj (the Hacking week-end)11:49
lcukand i pressed that camera button for all i was worth and prolly took pictures of the inside of the office11:49
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lbtthere was +/- zoom11:50
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lbtIIRC there was one in the middle too11:50
lcukon #7 or on all of em lol11:50
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lbt#7 was special11:51
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lcukkeesj, im quite proud of myself - ive nearly got autotools working on device :)11:51
lcukyou wasted an opportunity to have fun with #711:51
lbtI know :(11:51
X-Fadekeesj: Nice!11:51
lbtjust posted in tmo11:51
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lbtkeesj: very good.... but you missed the bar and the ice-cream ;)11:54
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lcukkeesj, :D wicked, that sort of thing would make a great app for new device11:57
lcukdid anyone do a df on the device?11:57
Stskeepsdevel device, so doesnt match resulting product11:58
Stskeepsbut it was really nice11:58
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keesjlcuk: the programs is called "motion" last time i cheked it did not support gstreamer and also only video4linux1 support11:59
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lbtlcuk: yes12:04
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lbtwhen the rootfs ran out of space when I installed most of Ubuntu12:04
lbtfrom the Mer repo ;)12:04
lcuklol lbt :D any gossip from it? :D12:05
lbtDid I mention that the application and libraries that I won the coding competition with were installed from the Mer repositories?12:05
lcukkeesj cool - i gather it would be trivial to use it as an alarm type feature with the accel unit and have it autouploading12:06
lcukive heard yeah lbt12:06
lbtlcuk nah, nothing to see... and qg asked not to chat about internals :)12:06
lcuk:) reasonable enough12:07
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kyndefor the record. I just tried the forementionen 'motion' in n810 and it worked. didn't bother with the ffmpeg yet, but it took motion based screenshots nicely.12:23
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RST38hX-Fade: still does not update page after logging in (+ that weird header size bug)12:29
X-FadeRST38h: Can you check what response header you get after logging in?12:29
RST38hX-Fade: Looks like this: 1) enter long/password 2) click OK or press ENTER 3) header shrinks to smaller size for a few moments 4) header returns to unlogged state 5) Press SHIFT+ENTER 6) after some delay header changes to logged in state12:30
RST38hX-Fade: I am afraid not easily: using FireFox at work, I am behind a proxy12:30
RST38hBut the same stuff happens at home too12:31
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X-FadeRST38h: We don't run any javascript on form submit which does anything with layout.12:31
X-FadeThat part is the weirdest.12:31
X-FadeIf you complete flush disk cache, does it still happen?12:32
RST38hGuess so12:32
RST38hLet me try from IE, I do not need its cache :)12:32
X-FadeBut do you see it in IE and FF3?12:33
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RST38hHave not checked form IE in a while12:33
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RST38hX-Fade: Ok, IE6, clean cache12:34
RST38hX-Fade: First of all the header in IE stays small. In FF3, the header stays large except for that moment where it becomes small12:34
X-FadeCan you hit control-0 (zero) in ff3?12:35
RST38hX-Fade: Secondly, with clean cache in IE6 there logged in page appears just fine no need to reload12:35
RST38hCtrl-0 makes header small, just like in IE12:35
X-FadeYeah, so you are in zoom mode in ff3.12:35
RST38hyes but I have just restarted FF312:36
X-Fadectrl-0 resets it.12:36
X-Fadectrl + will give you the large header again.12:36
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RST38hDoes it me that at home I have zoom as well?12:38
X-FadeThat is what I tried to explain yesterday.12:39
RST38hAnd it memorizes the setting???12:39
X-FadeAnd somehow ff3 saves that setting per website.12:39
X-FadeYou probably didn't have the problem on the wiki?12:39
X-FadeOr talk?12:39
X-FadeTry ctrl + there ;)12:40
RST38hThis sounds very very weird12:40
RST38hOk, IE6 does not appear to have problems showing logged-in page12:40
RST38hAlthough it may just be due to clean cache12:40
X-FadeRST38h: Imagine me being on the recieving end and needing to debug this.12:40
RST38hX-Fade: Ah, I know the feeling12:41
* RST38h once received a bug report from a guy who said that the simulated screen image is all smeared12:41
X-FadeBtw, if I log in I get these headers.12:41
X-FadeCache-Control: max-age=0 must-revalidate12:41
X-FadePragma: no-cache12:41
RST38hI can't see the headers from here12:41
X-FadeWhich should mean the browser can not cache it.12:41
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X-FadeLive http headers plugin for FF is great ;)12:42
RST38hApparently, guy's video card was very smart for its time, it did image smoothign in hardware on StretchBlt()s12:42
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RST38hX-Fade: I am afraid my proxy will eat those12:42
X-FadeNice, soft blurry images for free.12:42
X-FadeRST38h: Well, no they should be ok even with proxy. That is what pragma is for.12:43
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X-FadeBut if it doesn't work on proxies  then we need to debug it, so we can fix that issue.12:44
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RST38hX-Fade: the home machine does not use proxy but still exhibits the same behaviour somehow. Will check headers at home.12:51
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MikhoIs there a way to find out the N810 battery power level with some function call?12:55
X-FadeMikho: Ask over DBus?12:56
RST38hthere is a file in /sys I think12:57
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MikhoI can't find any helpful information in
X-FadeMikho: You could check the source of:
Mikholooks like the home page of the battery-status tool ( is down13:02
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lardmanX-Fade: how often does karma get recalculated?13:04
lardmanX-Fade: I've finally posted something to the list, my pre-post Discussion karma was 65, I'm waiting to see if it registers the post13:04
X-FadeAbout once a day, maybe 2.13:04
lardmanok, thanks13:05
X-Fadelardman: Yeah, that would be a good test. Let's see ;)13:05
floriangood morning13:06
lbtis #mer in the karma calcs ;)13:08
X-Fadelbt: Nope.13:09
* lbt nags Jaffa13:09
X-Fadelbt: But wiki edits are and you seem to be getting a lot of points there lately ;)13:09
lbtheh... more to come according to my sprint13:09
* timeless_mbp frowns13:13
timeless_mbpandre__: ping13:13
andre__timeless_mbp, pong13:14
timeless_mbpi need some gtk experts13:15
timeless_mbpwhere do i hunt for them?13:15
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Stskeepsnokia contractors? Â:)13:16
Mikholooks like the source for the battery-status tool isn't available13:16
qwerty12Mikho: It's a python program, dpkg-deb -x ;)13:17
Mikhooh, ok13:17
X-Fadelardman: Check your profile ;)13:18
lardmanX-Fade: good stuff13:18
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lardmanwell then, the 170 odd missing emails must be the old ones13:19
X-Fadelardman: Yeah alexey will work on a recount script which touches old entries.13:19
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andre__timeless_mbp,  #gtk+ on gimpnet irc i'd say13:19
lardmanactually, there is one other option I should probably test - I sent that email using webmail, not using outlook, perhaps I should try testing that too?13:20
X-Fadelardman: Sure.13:20
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lardmanlet me look for something useful to say ;)13:20
X-Fadeheh :)13:20
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Mikhook, got it. Thanks for advice :)13:23
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lardmanX-Fade: ok, fired one off from Outlook, we'll see what happens13:37
qwerty12lardman: your karma goes down if it detects the word "outlook" in the headers13:38
lardmanyeah, probably true :)13:38
Stskeepsor modest13:38
lardmanyeah, well modest often won't send anyway13:38
X-FadeDid anyone try out the current modest versions on diablo?13:38
X-FadeIt should work on diablo too.13:39
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RST38hwon't send, won't receive, won't read, won't authenticate13:45
RST38hyea, that is Modest for sure =)13:45
lardmanmine sends and reads most of the time, just sometimes it wont13:45
lardmanmore painful is when it decides I have new mail, just locks up everything13:45
aquatixis there a repository for modest snapshots?13:46
aquatixi'd like to try whether my bugs have been fixed or not13:46
X-Fadeaquatix: No, only source in git.13:47
lardmanstill 66... ;)13:48
* lardman goes to grab a coffee13:49
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* timeless_mbp sighs13:51
timeless_mbpoh no13:51
* timeless_mbp missed lunch13:51
X-Fadelardman: It increased.13:51
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lardmanso it did, right, so it looks like it's old emails missing then13:56
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lardmanwhat's the latest Tear version? 0.3.1-1?14:19
lardmancool, thanks14:20
* lardman curses pretty web2.0 sites like the BBC one14:21
aquatixbtw, i can't seem to paste/copy to/from the Tear address bar14:21
aquatixbbc works fine in Tear :)14:21
lardmanjust slow14:21
* aquatix reads it every day14:21 then14:21
qwerty12lardman: Heh, their embedding videos makes Flash go all funny :)14:21
aquatixah yeah14:21
aquatixdisable flash ;)14:21
lardmanI want to watch the video though!14:22
lardmanI should buy a new computer with a headphone socket14:22
aquatixit sort of worked here14:22
aquatixflash was kinda heavy somehow though14:22
aquatixyoutube works fine, but bbc not that much14:22
lardmanwhat about with the default browser then?14:23
aquatixi guess the same, didn't try yet14:23
qwerty12They should set up a special page, like they do when you go onto BBC iplayer with a Wii14:23
aquatixTear is so much better than microb14:23
lardmanqwerty12: is that url a repo?14:23
qwerty12lardman: Nope, straight deb. Qole runs a repo with it however14:24
lardmanit's down apparently14:24
qwerty12Hmm, works here14:24
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qwerty12File from qole's repo:
lardmanno idea, anyway will install that one and see how it goes14:25
aquatix  maemo  main14:25
aquatixlardman: ^14:25
lardmanyeah, told me it couldn't refresh14:25
qwerty12His new link is qole.org14:25
qwerty12Maemobox is no more (officially anyway, it's still up and I deleted all my files from it...)14:26
lardmanah, better, thanks14:26
* aquatix changes14:26
* lardman updates libwebkit while he's at it14:27
aquatixdang, this wifi is slow14:28
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lardmanmmm, much quicker now, good14:29
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aquatixooh, updates14:30
JesperHansenis everyone using maemo atm. developers or are the general users among?14:30
aquatixmeh, only minor ones14:30
aquatix(bug @ Tear Description: `dashhboard')14:31
qwerty12-2 contains a little more than that IIRC, read the thread14:31
lcukthats not a typo, its a super fast dashboard14:31
aquatixlcuk: :)14:32
lardmanI think updating libwebkit did the trick for me14:32
lcukJesperHansen, regular users play lots14:32
* lcuk got shouted at muchly by the family for taking the devices away last week14:32
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JesperHansenlcuk: any feedback from them that is different from a developers point of view?14:35
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lcukyeah - ive never heard tracy talk about problems with scratchbox14:36
* lcuk finds new stuff on it everytime 14:37
lardmanexcept that you're using it all the time ;)14:37
lcukshes not managed to break it yet which is good14:37
lcukdifferent device lol14:37
lcukhey simon, i got all my sketches back :D14:37
lardmanfrom your broken card?14:38
lardmangood stuff14:38
lcukyeah deffo - everything right up  to about 2 minutes before the corruption, was so relieved14:39
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X-Fadelcuk: Time for some backup routine?14:40
X-FadeOr a web sync service ;)14:40
lcukalready very muchly onthe cards14:41
lcuki had a backup from just before i left (I always take one) but it was like the whole weekend vanished14:41
X-FadeHmm that would have been bad.14:42
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JesperHansenGods way to say "I dislike what you did there, reverse it!"14:43
lcukyeah i have annotations and points all nicely timestamped again :)14:43
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lcukX-Fade, its a good job z4chh is writing a network monitor within liqbase, i wonder what might be includable in that data stream14:46
lcukJesperHansen, god uses liqbase himself14:46
lcukand moses wrote his commandments using it14:46
lcukit wasnt a stone tablet, it was a nokia tablet14:46
JesperHansenyea, next time you piss him off, lightning may strike you14:46
JesperHansenfrom your computer14:47
lcukhis lightening cannot harm me, my liqbase is like a shield of bacon14:47
jaskaablative armor14:47
woglindelcuk so it seems the weekend was very sucessfull14:47
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lcukwoglinde, very very worthwhile for all parties - i think we have all come away with new found respect for each others projects and ideas14:48
JesperHansenlcuk: that depends if you can resist eating your armor and become fragile for more lightning14:48
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lcuki was really impressed by the way nokia and mer got on :)14:49
lcukJesperHansen, theres always more bacon14:49
JesperHansenand to keep every bacon hungering developer in here away from you14:50
lcukwoglinde, and i got to see how to hack things together for liqbase itself14:50
lcukJesperHansen, nahhh bacon is unofficial food of maemo14:50
jjolcuk: so you're the guy with the qt-demos, huh?14:51
lcukjjo  whats qt?14:51
jjooh sorry, got names wrong once again14:51
lcukmy liqbase is an app and ui for maemo
JesperHansenStskeeps: who was the other danish guy at your maemo table in the weekend? I think he was sitting next to you at some point14:53
jjolcuk: yeah, you demoed it to me lask weekend, I just always remember that that mer guy was called gary14:53
lcukyeah i am gary lol14:54
jjomaybe because his surname begins with a 'g'14:54
lcukbut you are prolly thinking of david - lbt (with curly hair)14:54
jjoI'm really bad with names anyways14:54
jjobut yes, he was david14:54
lcuki wrote liqbase for that reason, and when everything falls into place i will have what i need to never forget14:54
jjoI'll surely install it once you have packages ready :)14:55
lbtjjo: hi14:56
jjooh, hi :)14:56
lbtQt eh?14:56
lcukyeah - ive been concentrating on the framework over the app recently tho, the original app is still nicer at this point, but not for much longer14:56
lbtandre__: ping re
jjolbt: so you're the guy with #714:57
lbtno longer sadly ... I had to leave #7 behind14:57
JesperHansenlbt: nice meeting you in CPH btw14:57
andre__lbt: yay?14:57
lcukjjo, who are you then14:57
* lcuk needs images and realnames14:57
jjoI'm the sdk guy with least hair14:57
lcukin irc14:57
lbtandre__: that's supposed to be against the new device14:58
jjoactually no hair14:58
lbtjjo: ah... gothcha.... the ponytail guy ;)14:58
lcukand a funky goatee that mustv taken about 6 months to grow right?14:58
andre__lbt, i know.14:58
jjolcuk: well, yes14:58
lbtBTW lcuk  need names/handles14:59
* lcuk was impressed 14:59
lcukim not a member of flickr (for some reason)14:59
lcukmy finger is named and shamed tho14:59
lbtandre__: was I wrong about that feature being missing?14:59
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lbtit was something I noticed in the room14:59
lbtjjo: I told you I'd file a bug on it :
andre__lbt, for me it works15:00
andre__hence i cannot reproduce15:00
jjolbt: sweet :)15:00
lbtthat's cool - as I said, it was on the developer release... could be fixed now :)15:00
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lbtjjo: we were talking to Sonia (?) about architecture info... is anything available yet?15:03
X-Fadelbt: Soumya ;)15:04
* JesperHansen brings food to the channel
jjolbt: not thatm I'm aware15:04
* lbt just ordered a ham+cheese s'wich15:04
lbtjjo: OK, qgil was saying that it was prepared but not released... it would be useful to have as part of the SDK docs... I'd like to use it for Mer purposes too15:05
lcukJesperHansen, i never thought i would say this, but you managed to find a bacon meal that makes me feel queezy15:06
lbtserves 2 though15:06
lcukyeah, if there was more bacon i wouldnt mind15:07
lcukand the dreamcatcher is good15:07
kfxthat is some serious goon food15:07
jjolbt: I sure it would. I hope we get it out asap15:08
lbtso any comments/progress/thoughts on a new widget gallery?15:08
lcukjjo, have you wiped off the code from those  dev units15:08
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lcuklbt, for which toolkit (or neednt i ask.. :P)15:10
lbtgtk actually15:10
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lbt( so we can make some Qt equivalents )15:10
jjolcuk: I just gave them to soumya, but I don't think theyve been reflashed15:10
lbtand more importantly, better understand the use-cases they apply to15:10
lcukcos i bet on one of them there is still the full libliqbase stuff15:11
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jjolbt: there has been some ideas about the widget gallery, but nothing has been done yet15:12
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lcuklbt, widgets without apps or expected uses arent that good, its like looking at a jigsaw piece and imagining the whole scene15:12
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lbtinvisible ones are worse15:12
* lcuk has plans for every single widget in liqbase :)15:13
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jjolbt: what did you have in mind? something like gtk2.0-examples or...?15:15
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lardmanWeather looks good, /me eats his lightning shield15:17
lbt is a start...15:18
amit_nick amit_usual15:18
* lbt hands amit_ a /15:18
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X-Fadelbt: That one needs some serious updating :)15:19
lbtthat was my point ;)15:19
jjolbt: oh, that.15:19
lbtand the reason for the original request15:19
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lardmandneary: re opengl wrappers, I'm sure I said that earlier in the thread, did no-one get my email?15:20
dnearylardman: you pointed to a forum thread?15:21
dnearylardman: I saw it15:21
dnearyI pointed to 2 different projects - one of them was the one in the forum thread you pointed to, I think15:21
lardmanyeah, i should have explained more perhaps... that's why I'm not a docs guy ;)15:21
dnearySo your mail got through :)15:21
lardmanlol @ screenshots for DOGLESS15:23
lardmanvery useful :)15:23
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lbtalso : from then linking to the docs15:23
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jjolbt: makes sense. Actually I didn't even know we had that outdated one15:30
X-FadeRST38h: ping?15:30
jjolbt: the gallery is being worked on after all or that's what I heard15:30
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X-Fadelbt: You might want to file a bug against that page.15:31
X-Fadelbt: So it doesn't get lost.15:32
X-Fadelbt: Another way to improve your karma :D15:32
jjofiling bugs is good :)15:32
amit_dusualhi i am trying to build a c library in my scratchbox it is shipped with its python bindings which require a file "python.h" what is this file and how may  get one15:33
VDVsxamit_dusual, try to call "python2.5" instead of "python"15:34
VDVsxand python.h is included in the python devel package15:36
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* GeneralAntilles chuckles at the OpenGL thread.15:41
* lbt is innocent15:42
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Stskeepswell at least the opengl thread shows one major thing: they're working on a wrapper so games/etc can use gl ..15:43
woglinde??? hm maybee than I read it wrong15:43
woglindesome ask for it15:44
lardmanGeneralAntilles: why the chuckling?15:44
woglindeand noby replied yes we do it15:44
lardmanwoglinde: Try here
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* lbt really hasn't been paying much attention to the is-the-next-device-a-phone issue... I though qgil said at the CPH weekend that it has a SIM that did data plan only...15:47
lbtdid I miss something or is it just speculation?15:47
lbt(in which case I have better things to do)15:47
lardmanI think that was from the leak wasn't it, the talk of talk?15:47
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Stskeepslbt: i think we all agree that marketing people have the ability to know one thing and say another ;)15:48
woglindelbt the sim thing wasnt new15:48
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lbtI didn't think so15:48
woglindeeverybody expect it15:48
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lbtit'd be nice if it was a phone... but it'd have to support divert-on-mer15:49
woglindelardman ah okay15:49
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woglindelbt no phone15:50
lbtfine... that's what I thought15:50
lbtalthough I still heard way too many "device or devices"....15:50
* GeneralAntilles goes to work.15:51
lardmanwhat's work GeneralAntilles?15:51
lbtyeah... we want to know15:51
lardmanthat was not a philosophical question ;)15:52
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lbtno, me neither :|15:52
infobotmethinks flashing is
Stskeepsyay, n810 flashing15:55
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thuxos2008 version before diablo, was it chinook? what is main difference between them?16:20
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thuxplanning to try downgrade16:21
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lcukthux, chinook started with a c16:22
GAN800thux, Chinook sucked.16:23
qwerty12Only advantage chinook has is that it didn't use the bullshit browserd16:23
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thuxwhy it sucked16:24
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GAN800thux, older, slower, unstable software16:24
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GAN800Same reasons most older software sucks compared to updated stuff.16:25
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thuxat least i don't remember any problems with chinook's image wiever, but diablo's loop every time when watching cell phone images16:36
GAN800Quiver? Canola?16:38
thuxmust try them16:39
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lcukGAN800, technically you know, there is a LOT of software that suffers due to age :)16:40
* lcuk directs you towards and the popularity thereof16:40
RST38hBit rot.16:40
RST38hIt is some bullshit site16:41
RST38hI am typing in "Turbo C" and get a bunch of "sponsored links"16:41
andre__Stskeeps, around?16:41
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Stskeepzandre__: yeah16:46
andre__Stskeepz, as I'm the bad guy closing some non-critical bug reports as "Fixed in Fremantle, Wontfix for Diablo" I'd like to add some sentence about Mer (you get more attention, I get less flamewars and complaints)16:48
andre__"The Mer project aims to provide a community backport of Fremantle for N8x0 devices. See for more information."16:48
andre__is fine?16:48
Stskeepzyeah, sure16:48
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StskeepzFremantle APIs is more accurate but let's not dive too much into details16:48
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andre__ok, then i'm going to use that sentence.16:49
andre__yay, netsplit16:49
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Meizirkkianyone knows what the heck is wrong with mediabox? It says, no module called "com" (which is a directory in it's place in /usr/lib/mediabox) old version from extras is working, but new versions won't start up16:50
Meizirkkiwhen installing it says [: 8: missing]16:51
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MeizirkkiStskeepz, i have no idea what's that :)16:52
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Stskeepzif it's on mer, its when their scripts are assuming they are running in bash and not a posix shell16:52
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Meizirkkiyes, on Mer. do you know how to get around that?16:52
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Stskeepzask the author to fix the bashism :P16:53
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MeizirkkiStskeepz, the weird is, postinst and /usr/lib/mediabox/ are both completely identical in the extras verion (that is working) and in the version that won't work..16:54
Meizirkkiat startup, the first line of fails16:55
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Meizirkki(in the newer version)16:55
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Stskeepzwho was mediabox author again?16:55
MeizirkkiMartin Grimme i think16:55
qwerty12pycage - Martin Grimme16:55
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Stskeepzit should be possible to get him to look at it :)16:56
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* GAN800 wonders how game changing the N900 is going go be to the cellular industry.16:58
Stskeepzdid you notice the news of T-mobile etc blocking skype?16:58
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X-FadeStskeepz: They just use it to sell data subscriptions at a premium ;)16:59
RST38hGAN: My guess is that it will not leave a trace16:59
RST38hmore or less like Sidekick16:59
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* RST38h also suspects that Nokia's reasons for N900 are more or less the same as with 7650 and N9517:00
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RST38hi.e. "release a clumsy initial hardware, see how public receives it, then follow with actually usable devices"17:01
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* aquatix might buy it anyway17:02
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Stskeepzscary, crowd sourcing works17:02
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* xnt14 is tired of sitting home sick in bed for 3 days, and not go on irc17:04
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xnt14I also made another mer theme :)17:04
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* aquatix wonders...17:04
aquatixif i get an n900, i can install mer on my n810 :)17:05
* Stskeepz is so happy about having a tablet when he's ill17:05
* aquatix is happy about not being ill that often17:05
aquatixbut a tablet is damn great17:05
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* xnt14 hates the fact that it came out of nowhere17:05
xnt14one day17:06
xnt14body hurts17:06
xnt14feels dizzy17:06
xnt14then I sit in bed17:06
jophishAre there any good open source gps pathfinders to run on maemo or mer17:07
xnt14and I get told that im sick17:07
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xnt14I thought I got the swine flu :P17:07
xnt14jophish: maemo mapper17:08
xnt14but the gps on the n810 sucks17:08
xnt14takes forever to get a fix17:08
xnt14hold on a sec, ill get a link17:08
jophishalready found it17:08
jophishthanks very much17:08
xnt14oh ok then :)17:08
xnt14I hate this crappy laptop keyboard17:09
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wjs_ltop_Hello people.. I've finally gotten around to messing with getting A2DP working again after the last flash update. Now I'm wondering about AVRCP, is a2dpd no longer used?  A kernel uinput module was mentioned at one point, but no info on how to get/install it.17:15
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wjs_ltop_I'd post this in the forums, but my posting privledges are nonexistant since the move from internettablittalk17:15
wjs_ltop_And, yes I did ask this same question last night...17:16
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Stskeepznonexistant, why? :P17:17
Stskeepzand we didn't move, we just renamed17:17
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wjs_ltop_Stskeepz, I don't know.  I recall posting in the past, but now I get an error about no permission to post.  I've sent a message twice to the admins about it.17:18
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Stskeepshm, odd17:18
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* xnt14 chucks his laptop out a window17:21
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* qwerty12 spots xnt14's laptop in a river17:23
* xnt14 buys a new laptop17:23
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* xnt14 gets this laptop
xnt14err, tablet17:25
* xnt14 returns it17:26
* xnt14 buys this:
* xnt14 reads the #maemo topic17:27
xnt14Warning #maemo is perilous for you job xD17:28
xnt14or "f" ubuntu?17:28
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Meizirkkixnt14, nevermind ;)17:33
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fiferboylbt: ping?17:35
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lbthi fiferboy17:49
fiferboylbt, hi.  You busy?17:49
lbtnot right now17:49
RST38hAnyone interested in a bit of web statistics? :)17:50
lbt0.3 %17:50
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fiferboylbt: I'll send you my changes.  Things are mostly working, but I just noticed a bug when overshooting in two directions that I will fix17:51
RST38hComparing Google Analytics stats for May 2007 vs May 200917:51
lcukRST38h, 75% of people would be interested if you can ensure the other 35% dont moan17:51
RST38hLinux doubled from 3.8% to 7.15%17:51
RST38hWindoze fell from 91.5% to 85.8%, all the penguin worshippers, rejoice NOW17:52
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RST38hNow bowsers^H^Hparodn browsers17:52
RST38hFireFox: 31.78% ==> 44.82%, IE: 59.8% ==> 39.03%17:52
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RST38h(btw, given that I support all the platforms including Symbian, this has all chances to represent the overall distribution)17:53
lardmanlooking at browser stats, has anyone spotted any likely n900s?17:53
RST38hNo good news for macnuts, you stay in the same hole in the ground17:54
xnt14RST38H: and this is for,
RST38hlardman: Not really, need a honey pot for that ;)17:54
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RST38hxnt14: fms.komkon.org17:54
xnt14oh ok :P17:54
RST38hkonqueror is WAY down, nobody uses it17:55
RST38hOpera Mini is whopping 1.2%, up from 0%17:55
xnt14RST38H: nice page17:55
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xnt14better then my current page17:55
RST38hOpera stays at 4.5% no changes, time to sell the company :)17:55
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lardmanRST38h: now we know why itt's hosting was moved ;)17:56
RST38hChrome is now 4.68%, bigger than Safari17:56
RST38hlardman: ? =)17:56
RST38hPlayStation Portable is 21 visits per month! Ho ho ho17:57
xnt14the psp browser is crap17:57
xnt14low memory errors17:57
RST38hAbout the same for PS3, NetFront, and HTCs combined17:57
xnt14but 21 visits?17:57
RST38hHTC adds phone name to the agent line, for unknown reason17:57
xnt14any notable phones?17:58
xnt14htc dream?17:58
xnt14touch pro?17:58
RST38hNo, the usual Touches17:58
RST38hTouch Pro is there17:58
RST38h2 iPhones17:58
RST38hSatan visited with the agent name of "####666"17:58
* RST38h hails Satan17:59
* xnt14 logs into his google analytics17:59
RST38h1 visit from IE 9.017:59
RST38hNo doubt also run by Satan17:59
RST38hMotorola Q11, 1 visit17:59
RST38hNutexplore, 1 visit in 200718:00
RST38hA few hackers trying to push scripts through agent lines18:00
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RST38hOh, screen resolutions... 1280x800 is WAY up, at the cost of 1024x76818:02
fiferboylbt: email sent18:02
RST38hIn general, way more people with 16:9 screens, poor guys18:02
* xnt14 has 15 visits from 1600x120018:02
lbtgot it, I'll take a look18:03
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RST38h16bpp video is down, 8bpp is out18:03
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RST38hOh, perfect, Java is finally dying: 96.7% ==> 83.76%18:04
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RST38hFew more years and the ugly toad will finally be dead18:04
rmtHmm.. I have a Viewlet that calls a function on on the application its a part of .. What's the way to get at this, no matter the context (ie. if the context is a Model under the app)?18:04
lardmanRST38h: interesting definition of dying18:05
lardmanwhat does that metric measure anyway?18:06
rmtEr, ignore me, wrong channel.18:06
RST38hlardman: Percentage of visitors whose browsers support Java18:07
lardmanxnt14: what's with your random nick chaning hey?18:07
lardmanRST38h: ah, I see18:07
lardmanRST38h: move mobile browsers I guess18:08
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RST38hlardman: Possibly but not by this percentage18:08
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xnt14lardman: joking around on #liqbase, don't worry about it any more18:08
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aquatixxnt14: i'll visit your site when i'm home18:09
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xnt14aquatix: :)18:09
aquatixxnt14: if you like semi-exotic screen res's18:09
xnt14yeah :P18:09
aquatixfor now you just got a pageview at 1400x1050 from opera 10b18:10
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xnt14~seen b-man1618:22
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 12h 15m 7s ago, saying: 'luke-jr: why so negative tonight? XD'.18:23
xnt142 days ago, negative lol18:23
xnt14~seen B-man18:23
infobotb-man <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 12d 16h 11m 41s ago, saying: 'wtf'.18:23
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* xnt14 watches the google io keynote18:26
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GAN800Nintendo sued18:57
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GAN800wrong channel19:01
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JaffaMorning, all19:07
halvesJaffa: morning19:08
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* RST38h checks out the window: does not look like morning19:10
lbtit's always morning when you join irc19:11
lbtif you're good it's always morning when you leave irc19:11
RST38hand what if I never leave? does it mean perpetual midnight? =)19:11
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lbtnight bergie19:12
JaffaRST38h: It's morning in San Francisco :-)19:13
thuxJaffa: are you there?19:13
lbtno, but....19:13
JaffaRST38h: But I'm at JavaOne, you wouldn't approve ;-p19:13
Jaffathux: This week, yeah.19:13
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RST38hJaffa: Java-compatible web users are down by ~15% over the last two years =)19:15
thuxalways wanted to see those cisco trams which go uphill19:15
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* RST38h was scared of the trams19:16
JaffaRST38h: whereas Java-compatible desktops are up; #1 smartphone is Java based, and Java on the server side is ever-increasing. Your point?19:16
RST38hNever know when to expect one of those to jump up at you19:16
JaffaThe cable cars are cool, but expensive19:16
JaffaAlcatraz tour tomorrow19:16
RST38hJaffa: Ah, as long as it is margnizalized to the server world, I am ok with that :)19:17
* Jaffa goes to find colleague.19:17
thuxcoolest island19:17
RST38hAnd "smartphone java" is kinda not quite java19:17
skibur how much does a typical worker make as a Linux System Administrator 1 make?19:18
RST38hdepends on the country and state19:18
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JaffaRST38h: Eh?19:19
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thuxskibur: here about 2200e/month19:24
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lardmanhi Jaffa19:25
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thuxsome get more up to 4000e 2-4000e not much for hard job19:26
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skiburwell19:27 is offering me $30,00019:27
skiburnot set in stone yet, but 95% sure19:27
lardmanbye chaps19:27
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qwerty12skibur: Someone's gone to Union Bank to deposit my bank draft of $750,000.00 USD :)19:29
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qwerty12Because they wanna 419 my ass19:31
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lbtJaffa: want to suggest for git.garage...19:33
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thuxskibur: 30.000$ a month or a year?19:33
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skibura year19:34
skiburwhich seems low to me19:34
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skiburresearching on what the base pay is for Linux Systems Administrator 1 for a web hosting company19:35
Jaffalbt: Some Maemo stuff is already using it. Part of me doesn't like the external dep (why use garage at all), another part doesn't like reinventing the wheel19:35
skiburjaffa, True19:36
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lbtthere's sprint work going into improving the git support19:36
lbtthey are also making gitorious do what's needed to develop Qt "in the open"19:37
lbtI am thinking that git.garage could either host an instance of;  or redirect with auth to ... gitorious19:37
lbtagain the key is auth mapping19:38
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lbtso not thinking it is very external (since Nokia are already sponsoring and Trolltech live there)19:38
Stskeepsquestion is really if mer wants to be on garage with our code hosting or not :P19:38
Stskeeps(we have mailing lists there and bug tracking; it may be good to spread our liabilities)19:38
lbtand re-use gitorious rather than re-invent19:38
lbtand yet, Stskeeps, git is truly distributed19:39
lbtwe could mirror to github19:39
lbt (although that doesn't provide the ACL to manage submissions)19:39
lbtso spreading the risk from a backup PoV seems easy19:40
lbtand gitorious is (AFAIK) sponsored by Nokia, not owned by them19:40
thuxbtw what is the logic behind browserd? why pc linux doesn't use it?19:42
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Jaffathux: PCs have more RAM and faster CPUs19:43
qwerty12The logic behind it was that it was a way for applications to use MicroB. So far, the only application that does so (excluding browser-ui) is the Flash "Getting Started" demo. Which does not say a lot when chinook's "Getting Started" did the same without browserd.19:44
thuxbut it could benefit browser daemon?19:44
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ShadowJKiirc ive heard startup speed mentioned too?19:55
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qwerty12Oh, yes, you're right. The time taken for the browser to open is a few seconds less.19:57
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Stskeepsit's a wazd20:03
wazd_n800hello world20:03
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wazd_n800Stskeeps, yesterday it was heat, now it's heeavy rain20:04
Stskeepsah, yeah20:04
wazd_n800Stskeeps, looks like I'm in Africa)20:04
Stskeepswe had 4 seasons in one day :P20:04
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wazd_n800Stskeeps, I've came up with idea how to switch desktops in Mer :)20:06
Stskeepsmm? :)20:06
wazd_n800Stskeeps, heading home to draw it :)20:07
wazd_n800Stskeeps, but I think it's cool and easy to make :)20:08
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wazd_n800Stskeeps, no gestures or something =)20:09
Stskeepsbig fat > button in the side of the desktop? :P20:09
wazd_n800Stskeeps, nah, thats lame and it's wasting precious screen space20:10
wazd_n800Stskeeps, you'll see :)20:10
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wazd_n800Stskeeps, what else I should try to improve?)20:11
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Stskeepswazd_n800: we have a wide range of things, like fixing up styles and such, icons, and other things that have flaws20:12
Stskeepsicons, themes, wallpapers :P20:12
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RST38hmoo wazd20:12
Stskeepslike, after using mer a bit there's some inconsistencies, that need some art help :)20:13
RST38hwazd: any news on that clutter issue?20:13
wazd_n800Stskeeps, to my mind it's better to implement all things that will be skinned and then make some Mer Theme Template to work with20:14
fiferboy_awaylbt: Have you had a chance to try out the changes?20:14
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Stskeepswazd_n800: yeah i guess20:14
wazd_n800RST38h, well, you still can't use clutter in your apps =)20:14
lbtno, they're in my git though20:14
RST38hwazd: and it looks like opengl es is out of reach too20:15
wazd_n800RST38h, cause clutter can only be used in one session at a time and this session is hildon-desktop20:15
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fiferboylbt: I've fixed a couple of the issues I was having20:16
RST38hthat may be related to the single use ogl es limitation20:16
Stskeepsthey're working on that20:17
qwerty12Read the "Fremantle OpenGL wrapper" thread on -developers20:17
RST38hsubway time.20:18
wazd_n800RST38h, careful20:20
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wazd_n800RST38h, storm is  moving towards Moscow)20:20
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vhogemann stupid question... what do you use to sync music to you NIT ? Plain system filebrowser, or something more fancy? I'm on OSX and too used to iTunes... What would you recommend?20:23
* mgedmin uses scp20:24
* vhogemann actually on ubuntu now, but all my music is on iTunes20:24
wazd_n800I'm on Vista and I use built-in WMP)20:24
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vhogemanniTunes sucks for not supporting generic MSD20:25
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chxhi. #maemo perilous for my job? I thought SSH and Skype on the go was quite good.20:26
wazd_n800theres no other players but the iPod, according to Apple :P20:26
vhogemannI need to find an alternative to iTunes... I would install amarok, but it seems to be too unstable on OSX to be usefull20:27
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vhogemannWhat I miss is the automagic sincronization that you can setup with playlists on iTunes20:27
chxanywyas, i tried to google but the results was not conclusive --- i need a BT headset that I can use simultaneously with the N810 and the phone. it seems the Plantronics can switch -- there is a Jabra but that's not sure how it owks.20:28
wazd_n800I guess there's Winamp for OSX, no?20:28
chxanyone with experience?20:28
vhogemannwazd_n800, didn't checked Winamp for a loooooong time20:29
amrcan't you just make an applescript to copy the files across?20:29
vhogemannwazd_n800, I'll look it up20:29
* vhogemann booting into OSX now20:29
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wazd_n800chx: well, my Jabra 620 listens a2dp from n800 and answers calls from the phone)20:29
wazd_n800btw, have anybody read that Palm Pre will be syncing with iTunes seamlessly?20:30
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wazd_n800As I've read, Pre just tells iTunes «Hello, I'm an iPod»and that's all20:31
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StskeepsDMCA? ;)20:31
amrthats pretty smart20:31
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wazd_n800And it makes all backups and stuff, just like iPhone would do20:32
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lcukwould be the sort of thing you could do with permission from the fruity company20:33
Stskeeps10 bucks it would be ruined with a "Update"20:33
wazd_n800I wonder if OSS community can make same stuff for Nokia or any other generic player20:33
JaffaNo good if consumer syncs DRM AAC and can't play it20:34
chxwazd_n800: yeah i read that20:34
lcukwell dont nokia phones have the "comes with music" initiative and a store etc - that would be the most likely official source20:34
chxwazd_n800: however.... the Pre is unusable until the fall when the GSM version arrives.20:34
wazd_n800yep, drm doesn't work on Pre neither20:34
lcuki wouldnt even mind with tht being closed payware "differentiation" :)20:34
chxwazd_n800: could hte Jabra work with Skype on N810 and the phone ... same time?20:35
chxwazd_n800:  as a headset20:35
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wazd_n800chx: I doubt.20:35
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* chx sniffs20:36
wazd_n800the only thing I can advice is to set your headset as default for both devices and always disconnect it after each call20:36
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wazd_n800when call will arive at the phone - it will automaticaly send it tou your headset20:37
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chxinteresting trick20:37
chxthis needs a headphone that can disconnect :p20:37
chxmy current Motorola IMO cant20:37
wazd_n800chx: just put bt menu on your phone to the quick button =)20:38
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wazd_n800I think the only way to keep different headset connections simultaneously is to have 2 bt chips in the headset =)20:40
chxplease call me an idiot20:41
chxbut where can i change the quick buttons on a Nokia E51?20:41
* wazd_n800 woners if n900 will support not only A2DP but media buttons profile too20:42
wazd_n800chx: I guess in the desktop settings or something. Even my dummy 2630 can do that =)20:42
luke-jrI think Nokia won't call it N900 just cuz everyone already is20:43
wazd_n800I have a special menu in settings called «quick access menu», and there I can set left and right button to whatever I want20:44
wazd_n800luke-jr: I'd rather call it N120:45
wazd_n800luke-jr, cause it seems to be the most advanced device in N-series20:45
chxthis phone is not the most user friendly20:45
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luke-jrso was the  N770, N800, and N810 when they came out20:46
wazd_n800luke-jr, 770 wasn't N :)20:46
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wazd_n800luke-jr, and they sucked at camera, gps and gaming (no 3D acceleration)20:47
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chxTo write and send text messages, scroll left.20:47
chxTo change these shortcuts, select Menu >20:47
chxTools > Settings > General >20:47
chxPersonalisation > Standby mode > Shortcuts.20:47
chxIt's only six levels deep.20:47
wazd_n800luke-jr, now these flaws are gone, N1 is the king :)20:48
chxwazd_n800: yeah but what the price will be :(20:49
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chxmy phone just jumped quite some20:51
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wazd_n800chx: price wold be around 500 bucks I'm sure20:52
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chxwazd_n800: why do much less than N97?20:54
wazd_n800chx: cause it's not a phone)20:55
chxwazd_n800: oh.20:55
wazd_n800being a phone is pretty expensive stuff20:55
chxyeah i bet20:55
wazd_n800and the voice data reciever is not the biggest deal20:56
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wazd_n800you should register and qualify a phone on the whole bunch of markets20:57
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chxWe believe this?20:57
Stskeepsold though20:57
ShadowJKthere are already 90+ pages about it on tmo?20:58
chxare there?20:58
Stskeeps"N900 specs revealed"20:59
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wazd_n800cause I beleive only nokia and my eyes. And eyes of maemo community chaps and gals20:59
wazd_n800nokia told there would be no voice, guys told that there's no earpiece where it's supposed to be20:59
chxempty.20:59 not t-mobile20:59
chxthis ?21:00
chxcome on21:00
chxits just chat21:00
chxwhere its the meat?21:00
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Stskeepswazd_n800: the developer units we saw are fremantle development devices, phone part could really be emulated with headset21:00
Stskeepsi know i want whatever they're coming out with however21:01
ShadowJKyeah you just need a N810 and a bluetooth phone and you can write the software for phone ;)21:01
wazd_n800not being a phone is a good thing for such an overloaded with highest end features device21:01
wazd_n800you better pray that it would not be a phone in fact)))21:01
Jaffawazd_n800: Nokia *never* said "no voice"21:03
chxNokia never said ANYTHING21:03
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wazd_n800Nokia never anything =)21:03
Jaffachx: Nokia said 3G, 5mp camera, OMAP321:04
wazd_n8003G data they said =)21:04
chxWhere? When?21:04
chxThat mobilecrunch is a rumour21:04
wazd_n800on the very first keynote21:04
ShadowJKdid they really say anything? haven't we just been assuming it based on the stuff they put in kernel and sdk? :)21:04
Jaffachx: Last September at OSiMWorld21:04
Jaffawazd_n800: Exact quote: "data is what we're talking about today", but they did only *announce* data21:05
JaffaShadowJK: They've said loads21:05
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wazd_n800armageddon in here!!!11121:05
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ShadowJKwazd_n800, change channel, it wasn't such a great movie21:06
wazd_n800you should see that cloud guys!!!21:06
chxJaffa: URL21:06
chxJaffa: URL? please.21:06
Jaffachx: Google "Maemo 5" and "osim"21:07
JaffaSeptember 2008.21:07
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chxi did21:07
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JaffaI don't know a URL OTTOMH, but I saw it with my own eyes when Ari Jaaksi said it21:08
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infobotit has been said that rx-51 is
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wazd_n800I'm definitely too young to die!21:10
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Stskeepswazd_n800: doomsday? :P21:10
wazd_n800it's pitch black and sparkling with lightnings!21:10
wazd_n800wait i'll send you a link to the webcam21:11
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Zhilin_n800live from doomsday xD21:20
Stskeepsyeah, you're doomed21:21
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RST38hmoo all21:23
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RST38hIt has the same physical properties as any other normal basketball, but when inserted in a basketball hoop from above, Earth's gravitational pull ceases to function within a rectangle of 16.30 x 31.30 meters, which happens to be the official dimensions of a basketball court.21:33
Stskeepswhat, the n900?21:33
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keesjhow much time does it take for a normal person to keep up with tmo?21:56
keesjis it like a 10Hours/day job?21:56 depends on how deep you go in and how addictive a personality you have21:57
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elninjaAnyone know if there are any scripts for the n810 to help locate the device in the event it's stolen? I'm thinking a script that tries connecting to any open wifi networks, and posting the coordinates to a php script on my site.22:02
zakkmelninja: you expect it to get stolen?22:03
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zakkmwhoever steals it would make sure it gets flashed/ is off... a script wouldnt help very much22:03
elninjaNope, but it seems like it could easily have some nice functionality for tracking it down if it ever does.22:03
zakkmlike if you steal a phone, you dont turn it on .. you dont have it on22:03
chxAutoposting pics from the webcam on every switch on would be even more useful22:03
zakkmyou take out simcard/ etc.. and break them22:04
chxthere have been people caught by such22:04
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zakkmthere'd have to be bad thiefs to be honest22:04
elninjazakkm, most thieves are dumb and steal something because they have the opportunity, not because they know what they're doing. I usually boot from an SD card. If I set the default boot to the internal flash, and don't put a password on it, most thieves will probably just turn it on and try to use it.22:05
chxmost pickpockets are not the sharpest knife in the drawer22:05
zakkmlike the gps takes what like 10min to lock, and most of time it fails, they'd have to be using it for 10min22:06
zakkmand then even after that once you have it, what are you going to do?22:06
zakkmthats mine , they stole it? your story over theres22:06
elninjaMost thieves wouldn't have the data cable or be familiar with the device well enough to flash it. If it works just fine, they probably will try to use it.22:07
zakkmyou dont have to be familar with the device22:07
chxzakkm: my device has my name inside , somewhat hidden22:07
zakkmmost thieves know theres tracking on most devices, gps's and such22:07
chxzakkm: anyone contesting the ownership of it would be in quite a situation to explain how the f* my name got inside.22:08
zakkmthey wouldnt leave it on, might even have a friend who would know how to flash or soemthing22:08
zakkmim just saying its not necessary worth it22:08
chxi am new to the n810 -- is there a device pass?22:09
chxthat would be good22:09
zakkmyou can set a lock code22:09
chxfor me, that'd be enough22:09
zakkmwhich cant be reflashed.22:09
zakkmand taken away22:09
zakkmalthough they can boot into mer, and use that.. but thats another story hah22:10
qwerty12_N810chx: seen how easy it is to read? :)22:10
chxi plan to load sensitive shit on that device22:10
zakkmso encrypt it22:10
chxlike my ssh privkey, email password and such22:10
zakkmbad ideaa ;p22:10
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elninjazakkm, that is always a possibility. however, I have seen a lot of retarded thieves and very few clever ones. If the script sits there unused, it costs me nothing. However, if it is stolen there is still the chance someone might turn it on.22:11
zakkmyeah but knowing you have it on there22:11
elninjaHow would they know?22:11
zakkmyou would probably be more loose with the tablet22:11
zakkmoh theres security, its okay if its not secure in my pocket22:11
zakkmi dont know the proper name for it22:12
elninjaI know what you're referring to. A false sense of security.22:12
zakkmthat i think22:12
zakkmlike right now, you probably guard it with your life sort of thing22:12
zakkmlets say the gps worked 100%... you'd think ahh it gets stolen, ill know exactly where it is, i can get it back22:13
zakkmi swear to you you wont secure it as much22:13
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zakkmits not so much a false sense of security, because it truly is security22:14
zakkma false sense of security, is when there isnt any at all, and you think there is22:14
zakkmthats a little different22:14
zakkmin my opinion anywayss :)22:15
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RST38h...controversial decision by Microsoft to block third party filter support in future versions of Windows media player...22:20
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Stskeepsi stopped using WMP years ago22:20
RST38hsame here22:20
RST38hbut still22:20
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qwerty12_N810mpc ftw22:20
Firebirdyoutube ftw22:21
Nomaspotify ftw22:21
Noma(i don't support videos)22:21
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elninjaI would generally agree with that point, but I'm aware of it's limited use and know better than to expect anything out of it. It won't affect whether or not I leave it laying around, since I wouldn't want anyone else using it period and couldn't track it if lost. The script would run under the default OS, while I primarily boot from an external SD card. I just think it would be nice to have an extra safety feature. I've heard of pe22:22
elninjaople using software on laptops for the same thing, and I can't see this being any less effective than that. (which i know isn't saying much)22:22
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RST38hBy adding a media player /media center app Mozilla would screw MS really hard =)22:23
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RST38helninja: eh?22:23
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elninjathat was to zakkm. lag...22:24
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fiferboylbt: I think I have all the kinks worked out.  I will send you the changes.22:35
fiferboylbt: Let me know what you think when you get a chance to try it out.22:35
lbtwill do22:35
lbtAntonio was on earlier22:35
fiferboyDid you tell him about the finger scrolling progress?22:37
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fiferboylbt: I just noticed I can access qabstractscrollarea_d from within QAbstractScrollAreaPrivateScroller22:39
fiferboyThat would mean assigning far fewer variables in ...PrivateScroller22:40
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LiraNunaanyone seen lcuk23:04
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lcukhe was around before, have you tried pinging him23:05
LiraNunahehe, have you tried the w32 gcc I sent you?23:06
fiferboylcuk: ping23:06
lcuknot yet LiraNuna, ive been upto my eyeballs in autotools on device23:06
lcukand recovering my knackered mmc23:06
LiraNunais there a native gcc on maemo?23:06
lcukpong fiferboy23:06
LiraNunaI can canadian cross it23:07
LiraNunagcc 4.423:07
lcukive used it for ages now23:07
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lcuk3. something23:07
LiraNunawould you want a newer version? :)23:07
lcukits from the sdk23:07
lcuknot really, that will come when i get a new device23:07
lcukim happy with the way this one works etc ;)23:07
lcukbut the windows version sounds intruiging - i have been generating .c template files for a couple of weeks now from win23:09
lbtfiferboy: you can23:09
lcukif i could automatically build them whilst im there it would be cool23:09
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fiferboylbt: I can what?23:09
lbtaccess qabstractscrollarea_d from within QAbstractScrollAreaPrivateScroller23:09
fiferboyExcellent. That makes life easier.23:10
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lbtalso when I spoke to Antonio he was very positive about getting it into Qt23:11
fiferboyGetting finger scrolling into Qt?23:13
fiferboyInto just the Hildon build, or into the core?23:14
fiferboyI wonder if there will be any interest going forward of having finger scrolling available on other platforms23:14
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hubwhat's is a decent music player app for the N800?23:48
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lardmanhub: built in one...?23:53
hublardman: I said decent.23:53
hubthat exclude that one23:53
lardmanwhat do you need extras?23:53
hubthat it actually find my music23:53
huband support Ogg metadata23:54
huband that is UI be actually useful23:54
lardmanah, the wonders of ogg23:54
lardmanthat I don't know then, sorry23:54
hubif only the source was available, I could attempt to salvage it23:54
lardmanI've grown to love the built in one, as I use mp3s, and as everything else sucks juice23:54
lardmanhub: yep, 'tis true23:55
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hubI don't care about juice23:55
hubit is on AC all the time23:55
lardmantry something like Canola, it should be able to use an mplayer backend23:55
lardmanand I guess it can parse the ogg metadata too, but I don't know23:56
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hubI guess I'll see if that confirm what I think of the use of Python23:58
hublast time I tried to start a python app on Maemo I waited forever23:59
huband I thought that AbiWord was already bloated ;-)23:59
lardmancanola isn't too bad, but it kills your battery23:59

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