IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-05-14

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Bobbecan anybody tell me a package that should be in app manager if I have Extras enabled? I have the strange feeling that it is not there (tho the app manager tells me it is)00:31
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BobbeAbiword, for instance, should be there, right?00:31
mgedminnot necessarily00:31
mgedminopenssh, though, should be00:31
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Bobbeopenssh is there, so my Extras is working, I guess00:33
BobbeI've been told wrong then00:33
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Bobbewhich repo should I add to install nano?00:34
oli;x what have i done.00:34
olii just wanted to display it, sorry!00:34
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oliBobbe: you don't use vi?00:35
mgedminBobbe: the tools repo apparently has it00:37
mgedmindeb diablo/tools free non-free00:37
* mgedmin prefers vim00:37
Bobbeoli, I do, but I vastly prefer nano. Typing : all the time in the n800 keyboard is a pain00:38
Bobbectrl is a lot more accessible. Big, fat, ctrl button waiting to be crunched ;)00:38
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Bobbethx mgedmin. Where can I see which packages are in each repo?00:38
mgedmingood question00:38
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Bobbeapparently somebody had compiled nano for os2007, but not 200800:45
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RST38hnano works on 200800:46
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Bobbeu mean getting this package compiled for os2007 and installing it on my diablo will work?00:46
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RST38hBottom of page
Bobbejust a sec00:48
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Bobbeerror opening terminal: xterm.00:51
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Bobbeanother question: can you guys see pictures in ur e-mails? My html e-mails don't show pictures at all01:22
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fiferboy_n810lbt: any luck with nested scrolling?01:34
lbtyep sorted01:34
JaffaStskeeps: catching up on (some) of tmo: thanks for some of your excellent posts btw01:34
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lbtand it *must* be right 'cos it uses recursion!01:35
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lbt(oh, and I tested it)01:35
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lbtessentially I walk the tree myself and stop at QASAs01:36
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fiferboy_n810Recursion has never been wrong01:37
fiferboy_n810Even improperly implemented recursion is correct01:37
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lbtnow reading the scrollarea code to see about bounce01:38
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fiferboy_n810do you have any ideas yet?01:40
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fiferboy_n810are those qwidget functions?01:45
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lbtalso it may be worth looking at QAbstractSlider::setValue01:46
lbtwhich is where the bounds checking is done...01:46
lbtwe may subvert the bounds check01:46
lbttesting vmax patch now01:47
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fiferboy_n810setValue says it has to be within the legal range01:47
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lbtyeah... we need to hack the legal range :)01:48
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fiferboy_n810ah, that make sense01:51
fiferboy_n810I never checked how the scrollbar responds in Fremantle when it is overshooting01:52
lbtdo they squish01:52
lbthmm they may not like that01:53
fiferboy_n810They do squish01:57
fiferboy_n810Isn't that what would happen when you make the range lager?01:57
lbtI can see them fling out of the end in Qt...01:59
lbtlast vmax test b4 bed02:00
fiferboy_n810As long as it doesn't paint the part that flies out, it'll look squishy02:00
fiferboy_n810If you have a sec to send the nested code I would appreciate that02:01
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lbtmay as well I'm in trouble anyway!02:05
fiferboy_n810Staying up too late?02:05
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lbtyup.... not getting any tonight!02:07
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fiferboy_n810Happens to me frequently... the getting in trouble for staying up coding part02:08
lbtqemu linker is so slow02:08
lbtyeah - I seem to work best at night02:08
fiferboy_n810Try a Qt compile in virtualbox on a slow laptop!02:09
lbtno thanks :)02:09
lbtare you in the UK ?02:10
fiferboy_n810No, Canada02:10
lbtoh, that's right02:10
fiferboy_n810I'm not in trouble yet, it's only 7:1002:10
lbtheh 00:10 here02:10
fiferboy_n810Where are you in the UK?02:11
fiferboy_n810My father-in-law is from Leciester02:12
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lbtemail sent... has vmax cap and nested scroll should be OK...02:13
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lbtI'd better go.... catch you tomorrow02:13
fiferboy_n810Great, thanks so much02:13
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* b-man establishes the #random-chatt channel - join if your bored lol02:43
BobbeIf I see this woman on the street, I'll run. No kidding02:44
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lcukBobbe kate is a well respected member of this community who does some excellent research, im sure if she ever saw you in the street she would be just as happy to see another community member as you are02:56
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BobbeI didn't disrespect any of her work at all. I just said she looks scary in the video, that's all02:58
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b-manlcuk, join #random-chatt03:00
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b-manlcuk, why? - for entertainmen if you're bored - and to (hopefully) reduce spam on #maemo ;)03:07
lcukyeah i know, but theres not much spam here lol03:07
JaffaEspecially at midnight UTC :)03:11
b-man.......good point - but it's still great if you're bored and want to type random stuff without annoying the living hell out of people ;)03:14
b-manindeed :)03:14
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kfxbrowserd is basically using all my ram whether I use the browser or not03:22
kfxany fixes for this?03:22
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Bobbe_kfx, u sure there aren't any browser processes running (besides browserd)? It's using 10mb here with nothing open, but that's it03:38
tank-mankfx, maybe restart the service?03:38
tank-manex: /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart03:41
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kfxI'll try that03:43
kfxthat saved 6mb but now maemo-launcher is soaking it all up03:51
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sneakretHowdy. I want to format my N810's mini SD card as ext2, and I'm having trouble finding instructions.04:25
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infobotsomebody said boot-sd was
sneakret(I know other people have done this, so I'd rather not figure it out again)04:25
sneakretHmm... I'm not trying to boot from SD, but I reckon formatting is a part of that. :)04:26
sneakretany news on the next NIT?04:27
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infobotrx-51 is probably
sneakretsounds cool.04:44
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Bobbe_is there a roadmap for the release of the rx-51? I tried to look for it but couldn't find it04:52
JaffaBobbe_: sometime between now and the end of the year. Hopefully summerish.04:56
JaffaThe final public roadmap item was "beta SDK" which was released a few weeks ago. But there's been no device announcement yet, so it's all still fairly vague.04:56
* Jaffa should go to bed. Body clock is probably still on French time, which is now 4am.04:57
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JaffaRight. That's it. I'm done.05:05
Jaffapenguinbait has pissed me off once too often, and I've been back online for less than 6 hours.05:06
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Proteousdamn penguinbait05:06
Proteousalways drivin people off05:06
b-manhmm :05:12
GeneralAntillespenguinbait is clearly incapable of discussion things rationally.05:13
GeneralAntillesAnyway, thanks, Jaffa|gone. :)05:14
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sneakretI wonder how much the rx-51 will cost. Seems like a lot of hardware...05:24
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sneakretI didn't notice any info about CPU speed...05:25
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sneakretsome sort of video out would rock.05:27
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* sneakret babbles.05:28
doc|homeTI OMAP 3430?05:31
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doc|home600mHz isn't a big speed improvement05:31
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sneakretcombined with video acceleration and other dedicated hardware, it should make a noticeable difference.05:37
doc|homeyeah, but for an internet tablet how much page rendering can you pass off to a video accelerator?05:37
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doc|homehaving said that, it's not appalling now05:38
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, the MHz isn't the important part05:40
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, that's not Apples-to-Apples to an ARM1105:40
doc|homemore cache?05:40
doc|homehmmm, ok05:40
GeneralAntillesIt's a Cortex A8 which is way faster05:40
doc|homeok, that'd be good.05:40
GeneralAntilles2-3x speedup compared to ARM11 for most stuff05:41
GeneralAntillesVastly more for some specific other stuff05:41
GeneralAntillesIt's got SIMD05:41
doc|homeanyone guessing at a price? :)05:42
sneakretI was wondering that too.05:42
sneakretI figure with video acceleration, more flash apps will run at reasonable speeds.05:42
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, ~$50005:43
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GeneralAntillesdoc|home, the DSP and GPU are both also way faster than the ones in the OMAP205:43
GeneralAntillesVideo decoding will be done on the DSP05:43
GeneralAntillesSo, D1 in h.264 will work fine.05:43
GeneralAntilles720p in MPEG4 part 205:44
sneakret$500 would be awesome, and is a smart target price, but I'm guessing it'll be closer to $600 initially.05:44
GeneralAntillessneakret, we'll see.05:44
GeneralAntillesThe OMAP3 isn't really the cost thing05:44
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GeneralAntillesCost is more likely to be all the little accessories.05:44
GeneralAntillesNah, not that05:44
sneakretI would be thrilled with $50005:45
doc|homecould this do telephone stuff?05:45
GeneralAntillesAccelerometers, FM RX/TX, dual cameras, etc.05:45
* doc|home has never used the radio nor the camera05:45
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, VoIP, sure, GSM voice is a remote possibility05:45
doc|homeGSM would be sweet05:45
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, 5 MP on the back (with LED flash and autofocus) and VGA on the front05:45
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, you see oFono?05:45
* doc|home searches05:46
man_in_pdayay, downloading maps for maemo-mapper05:46
GeneralAntilles720p video recording, should be.05:46
GeneralAntillesI suspect we'll PROBABLY see a compass with the GPS/05:46
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: oh sweet, could pick up where openmoko didn't.... well, ya know :)05:46
* doc|home sniffs at his still mostly unusable freerunner 05:47
sneakretA decent GPS receiver would be handy.05:47
GeneralAntillessneakret, dunno about qualify05:47
GeneralAntillesBut AGPS should be a lot easier with HSPA05:47
GeneralAntillesSo even if it's as crap as the one we've got now, it should work better in the RX-51 than the N81005:48
man_in_pdawhy is /topic just 's'?05:48
GeneralAntillesSomebody messed it up, I guess05:48
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sneakretI thought that's what we were talking about.05:48
GeneralAntillesI can't remember what the proper topic is05:49
GeneralAntillesSomebody have it in scrollback?05:49
doc|homeoli is to blame05:49
doc|homeone sec05:49
sneakretAh, 's'... what an awesome letter.05:49
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sneakretI miss 's'.05:50
sneakretI hope Nokia tidies up some of the software, like media player.05:51
sneakretfor the next device05:52
GeneralAntillessneakret, see the Modest screencast?05:52
GeneralAntillesExpect that level of polish05:52
GeneralAntillessneakret, read up on MAFW05:52
doc|homenow if only rogers would get a decent data plan05:53
GeneralAntillessneakret, Media Application Framework05:53
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, goodluckwiththat05:53
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: I know :(05:53
sneakretCool. Thanks.05:54
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GeneralAntillesIt'll be really nice once ubiquitous data connectivity is reasonably priced.06:25
GeneralAntillesand, well, ubiquitous.06:25
fireunand then data will be charged for06:27
doc|homefireun: it is already06:27
fireunevery google query costs 10cents06:28
fireunwhat, you think they'll always give it away for free? (:06:28
GeneralAntillesI'm rather amazed I went without cellular data previously.06:28
doc|homeno, which is why I pay for a net connection :)06:28
GeneralAntillesI remember the first time I loaded Engadget on my 770 over my 6682. . . .06:29
GeneralAntillesI about lost it.06:29
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: really? I rarely miss it, and only because my work is very strict about net connections06:29
fireundoc|home: every google search makes 7g CO206:29
doc|homefireun: I somehow doubt that06:29
fireundepends on who you believe, and which data center it goes thru06:30
doc|homebwahahaha, you're trusting the bbc on tech stuff?!06:30
fireunwell google figures .2g co206:30
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, being able to load up wikipedia at a restaurant to settle a dispute, check reviews when shopping in a store or IRC from just about anywhere.06:30
doc|homeok, the reviews thing I would like06:31
GeneralAntillesI figure you're looking at the CO2 values the wrong way06:31
doc|homebut as for irc, I want to get shit done too :)06:31
GeneralAntillesThink of how much would be consumed if you had to drive to the library.06:31
GeneralAntillesOr, hell, walk.06:31
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, sure, but having access the internet practically anywhere is really great.06:31
doc|homenot to mention the manufacturing of those books06:32
doc|homethe heating for the library06:32
fireunhalf my brain runs on the internet06:32
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: rogers-- :)06:32
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GeneralAntillesdoc|home, yeah, I tether on a $15/mo plan on AT&T06:32
doc|homeany bandwidth cap?06:33
doc|homeI'd like that if it wasn't at&t06:34
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, the claim is "unlimited"06:34
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GeneralAntillesBut I'd bet they'd start looking at you funny if you started pushing more than 10GB06:34
GeneralAntillesI don't really do anything particularly data intensive, though.06:34
GeneralAntillesLast time I checked I had hit about 800MB in one month.06:34
doc|homehere, rogers cheapest is 500mb for $2506:35
doc|homeplus "system access fee" of 6.9506:35
GeneralAntillesI'm amazed at how bad it is up there.06:36
GeneralAntillesWith your population density I'd figure they'd be beating down the doors to sell cheap cellular data access.06:36
GeneralAntillesLegislated cellular monopolies or something?06:36
doc|homepretty much06:37
GeneralAntillesFun stuff06:37
doc|homethe top dog at the communications regulator is a former bell and telus exec06:37
doc|homemore competition on the way allegedly but I'm not holding my breath06:37
GeneralAntillesIt's amazing the kinds of people they tend to install in those positions06:38
doc|homenot if you understand politics :(06:38
GeneralAntillesHehe, well. . . .06:39
GeneralAntillesIt's disgusting, anyway.06:39
GeneralAntillesI'm personally in favor of firing them all out of a cannon into the sun.06:39
doc|homederegulate the entire thing06:39
GeneralAntillesIt's incredible that they can get away with pissing all over the constitution down here without anybody batting an eye.06:40
GeneralAntillesThat shit should be treason.06:40
doc|homeit is, isn't it?06:40
doc|homeswearing an oath, then ignoring it?06:40
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GeneralAntillesClearly not, because none of them have been shot yet. :D06:40
doc|homebecause who's going to do it? Other politicians? :D06:41
GeneralAntillesI'll be happy to volunteer. ;)06:41
doc|homeno point in pissing off the current holder of the pie if you want a piece06:41
luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: they're too powerful06:41
GeneralAntillesluke-jr_, psh06:41
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: wave to the NSA. Remember, they're friendly with your data provider :)06:41
* doc|home waves06:41
luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: the batting of eyes tends to be in the form of suicide06:41
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, don't use AT&T at home. :D06:41
luke-jr_it's quite common these days06:41
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: hehe06:42
GeneralAntillesThey're only powerful because we let them dupe us into fighting eachother instead of fighting them.06:42
fireunyeah, where do you think Alpha came from?06:42
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: aye06:42
doc|homefireun: alpha?06:42
GeneralAntillesDemocrats vs Republicans is just a ploy to keep everybody occupied while they slowly take away our rights.06:42
doc|homefireun: nowhere that will allow it to work?06:43
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: absolutely06:43
luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: slowly?06:43
luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: try exercising your rights even today06:43
luke-jr_you might get away with talking about them06:43
GeneralAntillesluke-jr_, however bad it seems, we still have the power to change things.06:44
luke-jr_but try to actually exercise them and you'll get punished06:44
GeneralAntillesWe're not quite at the armed revolution stage yet.06:44
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GeneralAntillesVote the bastards out.06:44
doc|homedon't try too hard06:44
luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: you can't06:44
fireundoc|home: what?06:44
luke-jr_the power is in the hands of the unelected06:44
fireundoc|home: rephrase please06:44
GeneralAntillesSure, because the vast majority of people are under their control.06:44
doc|laptopfireun: it doesn't work, you can't use it06:44
fireunnot yet06:45
fireunits still may yet06:45
GeneralAntillesBut, trust me, you get enough people to vote them out, it'll work06:45
GeneralAntillesFor a few more years yet, anyway.06:45
luke-jr_you think a judge can be voted out?06:45
luke-jr_or a state employee?06:45
doc|laptopGeneralAntilles: if there was someone to vote for :/ The sheep don't even realise/care06:46
GeneralAntillesluke-jr_, depends on your municipality.06:46
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doc|laptopGeneralAntilles: they think obama is good change....06:46
GeneralAntillesdoc|laptop, sure, but that's a different issue than it being impossible to vote them out.06:46
luke-jr_I would have voted for Obama.06:46
GeneralAntillesObama sells warm fuzzies.06:46
luke-jr_because McCain was no-change06:46
doc|laptopluke-jr: he's all the same06:46
GeneralAntillesWarm fuzzies are a popular product.06:46
luke-jr_Obama at least brings hope of the USA collapsing06:46
doc|laptopluke-jr: and obama's change was... ?06:46
doc|laptopluke-jr: no, he'll just speed it up06:47
luke-jr_the sooner the better06:47
GeneralAntillesThere is something to that06:47
GeneralAntillesBut my worry is that something worse will take its place06:47
GeneralAntillesOr something really irreversible will happen in the process.06:47
doc|laptopGeneralAntilles: I saw Lewis Black at the weekend and he was saying exactly the same thing, both parties are the same, but then he turned around and said capitalism was greed and the banks weren't regulated enough, when regulation is the only thing keeping them alive.06:47
luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: perhaps, but not as large a reason06:47
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, yeah, that's called a cognitive disconnect. :D06:48
luke-jr_if we end up with 50 countries, at least some of them might be tolerable06:48
doc|laptopGeneralAntilles: sure, but he's still miles ahead of the sheep :/06:48
doc|laptopGeneralAntilles: scary, because that's the nonsense we'll have to deal with :/06:48
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doc|laptop(when it collapses)06:48
luke-jr_IMO, the US is too far gone to be worth trying to save06:49
luke-jr_collapse and rebuild is faster06:49
GeneralAntillesI disagree06:49
fireunyay agrarian society!06:50
kfxyou clearly have no experience with a collapsed state06:50
luke-jr_kfx: at least anarchy doesn't protect the criminals06:50
GeneralAntillesI think we're at the point where two things can happen. Either we get to the point where people start to "get" it and we still have time to fix things06:50
luke-jr_without the state, I can use armed defense06:50
kfxwhen was the last time you got shot06:50
GeneralAntillesor we get to that point and nothing changes and things just fall apart anyway.06:50
kfxare you in the habit of checking your ammo loadout before you go get water06:50
luke-jr_kfx: I didn't say I was prepared :)06:51
kfxbecause I've been there and this doesn't suck at all in comparison06:51
fireunthat kind of stress really wears you down06:51
fireunforget being able to think meta, you're down to basic instincts06:51
doc|laptopkfx: it's not over yet06:51
doc|laptopkfx: far from it06:51
doc|laptopkfx: the fact is, politicians are making it far worse06:52
kfxwhen I got back to the states it took concerted mental effort not to reach for a weapon at every road intersection06:52
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doc|laptopkfx: from... ?06:52
kfxit's nice not having to wake up in the morning and check your pistol06:52
kfxthe road thing happened after a while in afghanistan06:52
luke-jr_kfx: better than waking up in the morning and realizing there's nothing you can do to stop the torture06:52
doc|laptopsee, that wasn't anarchy06:52
kfxdoc|laptop: hahahaha ok06:52
fireunthe first fourth of july was real bad06:53
kfxgo hang out north of kandahar for a while06:53
doc|laptopkfx: it's chaos, but that's an incorrect definition of anarchy06:53
luke-jr_kfx: I can't, I'm a prisoner of the state.06:53
kfxdoc|laptop: you're mincing words06:53
doc|laptopkfx: not at all. Look up agorism.06:53
kfxI'm not talking about politics06:53
doc|laptopkfx: we are :)06:53
kfxI'm talking about a collapsed state06:53
kfxno politics, period06:53
kfxI'm familiar with the definition of anarchy and agorism06:53
doc|laptopkfx: a great idea. No one taking my taxes? I pay for things I use myself?06:54
kfxI'm *more* familiar with what happens when a government falls06:54
doc|laptopkfx: ok, so you're talking about the medium term.06:54
luke-jr_kfx: in my situation where my family is being held hostage and the government stands in the way of armed rescue, anarchy is superior06:54
fireundoc|laptop: he's familiar with the experience, not the concept06:55
kfxyour idealism won't help you survive the near-term, doc|laptop06:55
doc|laptopkfx: it won't, but it does help me realise I am on my own. When the government collapses who's paying the police?06:55
fireunthe food hidden in the walls might06:55
doc|laptopkfx: I do realise however that I can pay someone to help protect me06:55
kfxno, you can't06:55
doc|laptopkfx: most people won't realise that.06:55
doc|laptopkfx: why not?06:56
kfxthere's no enforcement of contract law06:56
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kfxyou make a deal, he gets the money, you die06:56
fireunsometimes to prevent having to be on your own, you have to work with others06:56
kfxthen he gets everything else06:56
doc|laptopkfx: so you pay after the fact06:56
doc|laptopkfx: I can enforce that contract law myself should they breach it06:56
kfxnobody accepts that06:56
kfxmoney up front06:56
kfxno contract law, no trust06:56
luke-jr_there's little enforcing contract law now anyway06:57
doc|laptopkfx: I wouldn't pay anyone I don't trust06:57
kfxif you're paying someone to protect you, they by definition are stronger than you and/or in a position to kill you06:57
kfxluke-jr_: in the US?  that's a ridiculous statement06:57
doc|laptopkfx: not at all. If I pay them then I can do what I'm good at.06:57
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kfxthis whole country is built on contract law06:57
doc|laptopkfx: governments often undermine contract law06:57
GeneralAntilleskfx, basic assumption seems to be that people are basically evil.06:58
luke-jr_kfx: if I don't pay a bill, nothing bad will happen to me06:58
* GeneralAntilles agrees with fireun.06:58
johnxkfx++, everyone else is being hilariously optimistic06:58
doc|laptopkfx: if the worst comes to the worst I could protect myself, but I would choose to pay someone because it's financially better for me to do so06:58
luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: that would be a correct assumption06:58
johnxhey GeneralAntilles :)06:58
kfxGeneralAntilles: basic assumption is that people with no prospects will stop at nothing to gain any advantage06:58
GeneralAntillesHi, johnx. :)06:58
doc|laptopjohnx: haha, optimism is something I've never been accused of in a discussion like this06:58
GeneralAntillesRecovered from the roadtrip?06:58
kfxdoc|laptop: you're definitely displaying it06:58
kfxit's either a profound optimism or a profound naivete06:59
johnxGeneralAntilles, yup, and starting to settle into my new job06:59
* GeneralAntilles wonders who the hell john_G1 is. . . .06:59
doc|laptopkfx: why? because I'm willing to pay someone for security? Stores do it all the time, do you see store security robbing the store customers/management?06:59
kfxdoc|laptop: because you think money will mean anything in a post-state environment, for one06:59
johnxno G1 here. it'll be a Freerunner before a G1 :P06:59
doc|laptopkfx: that is an entirely different question07:00
kfxmoney is also based on contract law07:00
kfxunless you're talking about barter, but if you make it known you own something of value someone'll just kill you for it07:00
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kfxI watched a kid steal a pistol magazine once07:00
GeneralAntillesjohnx, sorry, the question was: New job? :)07:00
doc|laptopkfx: oh, well, that one example... fine, you win...07:01
kfxhe made it about three blocks before some passing man saw it, shot him, took the clip, and disappeared07:01
kfxit was representative of the bahavior pattern in the area07:01
johnxGeneralAntilles, a new old job. Back at the job I had before I moved to Japan (and totally thrilled with it)07:01
doc|laptopkfx: if that was normal then we'd do that as part of our normal day to day lives. The police here are more likely to taser a person than to protect them.07:02
doc|laptopit's far easier to work with people than fight them constantly07:02
doc|laptopthat is why trade/barter came about in the first place07:02
doc|laptopand gold/silver are really just proxies for barter07:02
kfxI hope you never have the chance to find out how incredibly incorrect your assumptions are there07:02
doc|laptopkfx: would you not agree that most of the problems in that country come from different groups attempting to have control of it?07:03
kfxIt's always far, far easier to shoot someone and take what you want07:03
doc|laptopthat in day to day business, people trade rather than rob?07:03
kfxnot really07:03
doc|laptopoh come on...07:03
doc|laptopI'm not buying that for a moment07:03
doc|laptopif that were the case, no trade would exist anywhere in the world07:04
johnxit really doesn't take huge percentage of criminals to totally destabilize a country07:04
kfxdon't care what you buy07:04
doc|laptopkfx: you don't see the flaw in that logic?07:04
kfxpeople who can afford to protect themselves travel a long way to do business in the relatively lawful areas07:04
doc|laptopjohnx: I'm not arguing otherwise, but I'm saying that you don't need a giant political machine which takes 30-50% of your income every year just to facilitate trade07:05
kfxdoc|laptop: I agree with that07:05
johnxdoc|home, so where are your counter examples of people living in peace and harmony without a government?07:05
kfxbut it's not "no government" or "huge government"07:05
kfxthere are middle paths to take07:05
kfxand my whole point is that "no government" is far worse than you can apparently imagine07:06
kfxthis isn't hypothetical, by the way07:06
luke-jr_kfx: destruction of huge government is faster than reduction07:06
kfxluke-jr_: yeah, because solid political theory is always founded on "how fast can we..."07:06
luke-jr_kfx: no government just requires preparation07:06
doc|laptopjohnx: it's not perfect, but if you look at somalia, which has it's own legal system, in comparison to some of its neighbours it's doing much better. And you can talk about piracy but I see little difference between piracy and state tariffs.07:06
johnxluke-jr, and jumping out of an airplane is faster than waiting for it to land07:07
luke-jr_kfx: while my family is held hostage, speed is of utmost importance07:07
kfxgandhi's most famous quote was "passive resistance takes too long let's burn this shit down"07:07
luke-jr_kfx: and I couldn't care less about the general welfare of people07:07
kfxdoc|laptop: hahahaha "somalia", "legal system"07:07
doc|laptopkfx: sure, I'd much rather the middle path, less government to no government. But it can still happen.07:07
kfxhave you ever set foot in somalia07:07
doc|laptopkfx: you laugh, but outside of the areas being fought over, the economy there is working well.07:08
kfxsomalia's even worse than afghanistan07:08
doc|laptopand if you don't believe that, then it's research time07:08
kfxI spent a week in mogadishu and I still can't believe I'm still alive07:08
doc|laptopwhich is one of the fought over areas... right?07:08
doc|laptopthere's plenty of the country which is both peaceful and improving.07:09
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kfxsend me a postcard07:09
kfxbut do it right after you get off the plane, because otherwise you won't have the chance07:09
johnxdoc|laptop, how about a different example then?07:09
doc|laptopkfx: nice, take cheap shots just to ignore my point.07:10
kfxdoc|laptop: you're working on unreliable information07:10
doc|laptopjohnx: there aren't any. Politics makes sure of that.07:10
kfxyou don't really have a point, just some thoughts about how you think people work07:10
doc|laptopkfx: that also is not any sort of useful response.07:10
kfxI've got over a decade of experience in lawless areas07:10
doc|laptopkfx: please, do some research on this.07:10
kfxI've personally been to lots of these places07:11
kfxI've done my research with my own eyes, on the ground07:11
luke-jr_kfx: I've got over a year of torture by the state of Nebraska.07:11
doc|laptopkfx: see, I'm not talking about lawless, I'm talking about governmentless.07:11
doc|laptopkfx: there is a difference.07:11
kfxmeaningless semantics07:11
doc|laptopkfx: not at all.07:11
johnxdoc|laptop, soooo, kind of an opt-in legal system? :>07:11
kfxI could just as easily posit that any law-producing body is a de facto government07:11
kfxyou can split hairs over your terminology; I've been there, and I see how people actually live in real life07:12
johnxkfx wins one internet. new discussion.07:12
doc|laptopjohnx: to some extent. One sec.07:12
kfxfor the first time this week, I'm actually gonna go to bed before midnight07:13
doc|laptopkfx: depends on how you define it07:13
johnx'night kfx :)07:13
kfxin a house with no guns, because I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where that's not a fatal oversight07:13
kfxnight all07:13
* doc|laptop sighs07:13
doc|laptopkfx: one sec07:13
doc|laptopjohnx: do a ctrl-f for "jilab"
doc|laptopthat will give you a general overview, then I'd suggest reading it from the top :) It's very interesting (to me :) )07:15
doc|laptopkfx: ^07:15
doc|laptopsorry, jilib07:16
johnxI'm sensing some bias07:16
doc|laptopjohnx: read it first, it's the experience of someone (a westerner iirc) who married a somalian and lived there for years.07:16
johnxnah, I'll just pass on this discussion. for the first time this week I have hacking to do that's not work related ;)07:17
doc|laptopjohnx: you peed all over the idea, then when given information on a case, you ignore it. Then you'll bitch when having to pay taxes :)07:18
johnxdoc|laptop, nope. I love paying taxes07:19
johnxI'd love it even more if it covered social health care07:19
johnxI'd gladly pay more even07:19
doc|laptopthe government can tax you 100% and still not meet it's existing obligations. Good luck with that...07:19
doc|laptopit's mathematically impossible07:19
johnxand, BTW, it's your biased source that I take issue with wading through07:19
* doc|laptop shrugs07:20
johnxdoc|laptop, the difference is I've personally seen social health care work07:20
johnxand you've never lived in a governmentless state07:20
doc|laptopjohnx: you have? I'm living in a country where it exists and sucks, coming from a country where it exists, and sucks.07:20
johnxyup, sometimes it sucks, but if implemented properly it sucks less than the alternatives07:21
fireunmars is still pretty empty of govement07:21
fireunbut you may have to wait awhile for the immigration office to open07:21
doc|laptopjohnx: with no competition, unlikely07:21
doc|laptopand I'm not really sure what bias you're talking about, it's a piece on a book that was written by a person who lives in the country... what more do you want? :/07:22
doc|laptopanyway, I've things to do07:23
sneakret21:32 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, yeah, I tether on a $15/mo plan on AT&T07:23
sneakret21:33 <doc|home> any bandwidth cap?07:23
sneakret21:34 <doc|home> I'd like that if it wasn't at&t07:23
johnxI was referring mostly the bias of the site07:23
doc|laptopjohnx: bias?07:23
sneakretI tether with a $15/month plan from Verizon...07:23
johnxdoc|laptop, uhm, the whole site seems to be pretty anti-government07:23
sneakret(no cap)07:23
doc|laptopjohnx: sure, you expect to see that posted on
doc|laptopsneakret: yeah, I'm in Canada there. Not a lot of competition here to drive prices down. :(07:24
johnxdoc|laptop, eh, they have bias too07:24
sneakretPrices are pretty bad in the states too. I had to tweak my phone to get tethering to work.07:25
doc|laptopjohnx: and? Again, a piece written by them based on a book you can go out and buy07:25
sneakretotherwise they wanted $30/month07:25
doc|laptopjohnx: and as far as I know, that person wasn't in any way linked with them07:25
johnxdoc|laptop, there's bias. I have better things to do. if you want to think you've won the discussion, then feel free07:25
doc|laptopjohnx: I didn't think it was about winning anything.... It was about explaining this07:26
doc|laptopfor me anyway07:26
doc|laptopI've things to do07:26
johnxme too :)07:27
johnxmaybe later I'll have time to read and we can go in depth07:27
johnxand I'll tell you about what working social healthcare is like07:27
doc|laptopsure, happy to discuss it. This might not be the best place though. Bye07:28
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johnxm00f RST38h07:28
RST38hheya johnx07:28
johnxhow's the weather over there lately? :)07:29
RST38h+8..+10oC, rain07:30
* RST38h got soaked yesterday07:30
johnxyeah, it rained today here and everyone started driving with their butts07:30
GeneralAntillesI flooded here today07:31
johnxafter an hour of what should have been a 30 minute drive I pulled off, got something to eat and let the traffic die down07:31
GeneralAntillesFirst rain we've had in weeks and weeks and it comes with hail07:31
fireunGeneralAntilles: where is your high water mark?07:31
Maceri want to join ZFT07:32
GeneralAntillesfireun, when I have to detour around an intersection because the water's too high. :P07:32
fireunMacer: you watch too much tv07:32
Maceri got hurt a week ago07:32
fireunsorry to hear it07:32
Macerso i've been watching everythig like a fucking vegetable07:32
* johnx steers for the deep puddles07:32
GeneralAntillesfireun, when we don't get rain for a while the storm drains tend to get stopped up07:32
GeneralAntillesso it floods in interesting ways.07:32
fireunMacer: and its season finale week07:32
Maceryou must too if you know what it was fireun07:32
GeneralAntillesWoo! 5800 tomorrow.07:33
fireunGeneralAntilles: I lived where the ground was so hard and dry, any amount of rain turned into a flash flood07:33
Macerit has been storming for a long time today07:33
fireunMacer: guilty07:33
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I think I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to do non-touchscreen mobile devices.07:33
GeneralAntillesLooking back, there hasn't been a single one that hasn't managed to thoroughly piss me off.07:34
Maceri'm watching the one where the woman just left the bus, started on fire.. and exploded07:34
GeneralAntillesSo it came down to E71 or 5800 and I went with the 5800.07:34
johnxmy phone isn't pissing me off that much, but it's just a phone07:34
johnx<- big fan of phones with some physical keys07:34
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I fail miserably at T9 and I'm not a fan of itty bitty QWERTY boards.07:35
Macerphysical keys07:35
GeneralAntillesVirtual finger keyboards, however, I can do. ; )07:35
johnxah, I got used to T9. Just takes me a while to properly build the dictionary I like07:35
Maceri hate T907:35
Macerit's all about qwerty phones07:36
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I'm quite sure I could get used to it.07:36
GeneralAntillesBut I don't really want to.07:36
johnxfair enough07:36
Maceromg now it's storming again07:36
johnxI'm used to getting used to things07:36
GeneralAntillesBesides, I like being able to poke things without trying to find them with a dpad07:36
Macerwtf... it stops then starts .. it is rather soothing though07:36
johnxeven macs don't make me that crazy anymore07:36
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I'm used to getting used to things that I want to get used to. :D07:36
GeneralAntillesT9 is not one of those things, since my future plans all involve some sort of reasonable sized keyboard.07:37
johnxIT means I get paid to get used to whatever else someone pays me to get used to :)07:37
johnx<- department of redundancy department07:37
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Macerjohnx: don't know how you keep your sanity07:39
GeneralAntillesjohnx, "paid" is the operative term there07:39
johnxGeneralAntilles, yup. are you saying no one's even paying you to use that mac? O_o;07:40
* johnx ducks07:41
GeneralAntillesjohnx, well, I use it to do productive work related things from time to time. . .07:41
GeneralAntillesBut, anyway, it's what I grew up with.07:42
GeneralAntillesIt sure as hell works better than this GNOME piece of shit. :)07:42
johnxI actually have gnome and mac setup almost comparably now. both would probably drive anyone besides me nuts :>07:43
RST38hGNOME is ok07:43
RST38hMacOS left me somewhat disappointed though: lots of eye candy, but hellishly difficult to do certain things07:44
johnxyeah, it's not bad if you let it bend you to its workflow07:44
johnxthe lack of 'focus follows pointer, no autoraise' drives me a little insane07:44
Maceryou actually like focus follows pointer?07:44
RST38hjohnx: I absolutely hate this "workflow" thing07:45
RST38hjohnx: when I say "jump" it should jump. Hence my usage of PICO :)07:45
johnxMacer, yup, and I have it set so windows don't raise even when I click inside them07:45
doc|laptopI liked focus follows pointers until people started making multiple panelled applications :(07:45
* johnx is ok with emacs or vi07:45
johnxactually, I like pico and joe as well07:46
Macerwow. haven't used joe in a long time07:46
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johnxme neither07:46
* RST38h used joe on FreeBSD, a while ago07:46
johnxgot used to vi07:46
Maceri never memorized all the vi commands07:46
Maceronly basic editing07:47
RST38h(even used Emacs, long time ago, at the university, before finding the 'pico' command)07:47
johnxI started using joe/jpico when RedHat pulled pico from its default install07:47
johnxerrr...or maybe when I switched to debian07:47
Maceris rhel pay only?07:47
Macerlike you can only get it if you pay for it?07:47
johnxyup, but look up CentOS07:48
Maceroh i know centos is the same thingish07:49
RST38hFedora too07:49
Macerbut i never really looked at rhel07:49
RST38hcentos sucks moose balls07:49
Macerto see if it was something that you can only get if you pay for it07:49
doc|laptopit does07:49
doc|laptopbig ones07:49
doc|laptopbig hairy ones07:49
MacerRST38h: i use it for my zimbra server07:49
doc|laptopand their IRC channel is even worse07:49
Macerit runs07:49
Macer$349 for a basic 1 yr sub07:50
Macerthat's ms server pricing :)07:50
RST38hMacer: you probably did not have to do anything complicated07:50
* RST38h remembers some package requiring the latest version of Python or PERL (don't remember)07:51
MacerRST38h: not really. just zimbra07:51
RST38hAfter that new version was installed, the whole package management system broke completely07:51
MacerRST38h: reminds me of gentoo07:51
* johnx remembers upgrading RHEL4, inside a point release, and it just failing to boot07:51
RST38hBecause it relied on the older version of PERL/Python and did not come with its own install in some safe place07:51
MacerRST38h: definately sounds like gentoo :)07:52
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RST38hMacer: To hell with them all. I am used to FreeBSD which never ever breaks unless you hit it with a lightning bolt07:52
RST38hAnd this Linux crap drives me mad.07:52
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Macer:) i'm sad to say i agree with you07:53
Macerbut i do like nexenta07:53
johnxheh...nexenta was kinda b0rken last time I tried07:53
* RST38h kinda came to peace with Ubuntu/Debian, which do not act up too much, but the other distros just drive him mad07:53
Macerjohnx: i'm using it for my fs07:53
Macerso far it's been pretty solid07:54
johnxRST38h, with you on that :)07:54
Maceri think lenny is pretty nice07:54
Macerbut it's the ext2/3 that linux is still stuck with07:54
johnxeh, ext3 never did me wrong07:54
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Macermake huge storage with it07:55
Macerand tell me that again07:55
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johnxhuge storage?07:56
johnxhow big?07:56
Macersomething past 5TB? :)07:56
johnxaaaand, what happens then?07:57
johnxI think we're pushing at least 4TB at work with no real problems07:57
Macersome things are like sex. they are just meant to be experienced07:57
johnxso, is this like sex or like falling down the stairs07:58
Macerhaving sex while falling down the stairs07:58
Macerheh.. ok. i need to get some sleep07:58
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doc|homespock was smarter than becoming US president08:04
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* man_in_ltop waves08:12
man_in_ltopwhat's a good quick sketch app for maemo? :D08:12
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GeneralAntillesliqbase, Xournal, MaemoPad+08:12
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aspectxournal is nice08:20
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RST38hneeds an update though08:21
man_in_ltopwhat update?08:21
RST38hwhatever is in extras-devel version has to get debugged and merged into official one08:23
RST38hlots of offtopic threads lately...08:29
RST38hunless nokia releases something soon, it is all going downhill =(08:29
johnxyeah, seems like things are kind of hanging in limbo. I guess that's the danger of a software platform that doesn't really run on the existing hardware08:31
StsN800RST38h, encourage rumour on Star Trek, Maemo and 'Rover'08:31
StsN800(a codename we saw)08:32
ljpI can say for certain that maemo guys are hard at work on the next maemo device, so no limbo, just not talking :)08:32
StsN800it's causing community psychosis to wait :>08:33
RST38hSts: Exactly08:33
RST38hSts: And then everybody gets tired and goes away08:33
johnxljp, oh, the people *here* definitely know, but I think it's causing some people to hold off 1) buying tablets and 2) starting projects08:34
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johnxRST38h, a couple people getting tired actually seems preferable to things fragmenting in 6 different directions08:35
RST38hjohnx: if these people are your whole community...08:36
johnxRST38h, we can renew interest, it's hard to un-fragment08:36
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man_in_ltopif they make a n810-compat OS with wpa-eap/pap, i'll be happy :P08:38
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RST38hToshiba slapped 512GB SSD drive into an R60008:52
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RST38h(instead of fixing the LCD :))08:53
man_in_ltop512GB ssd?08:54
man_in_ltopgah, now my n810 won't boot again08:56
man_in_ltopah, flat battery08:59
man_in_ltopsomeone turned off my charger08:59
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johnxmorning thux09:06
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RST38hIf anybody interested, AlmostTI source code is now available at
Sts|officewoo :)09:35
Sts|officewhat license, out of curiousity?09:35
Sts|office(i'm not going to ask "why not gpl", in case you wonder)09:35
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RST38hSts: no commercial use, have to make a reference to me when using it otherwise09:37
Sts|officefair enough09:37
RST38hSts: and yes, if you do not make major changes to the code, do not call it a different name :)09:37
Sts|officehehe.. i had that with my ircd09:38
Sts|officebut through a sneaky trick09:38
Sts|officeif you were able to figure out what made it crash if you changed the ircd name, you were allowed to change the name ;)09:38
Sts|officethat kept forks at a record low09:38
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Sts|officeand manifested the 83% dominance on the ircd market ;)09:39
RST38hBtw, would you care to dump your 84+ ROM?09:40
Stskeepsyeah - i just have a couple of things to do but i'll work on it when i get a free moment09:40
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RST38hThanks - it should be relatively easy too09:40
Stskeepsi bought the 84+ and used it for one measly exam.09:41
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JaffaMorning, all09:58
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luke-jr_RST38h: pfft, non-Free10:00
luke-jr_RST38h: false advertising on the page, since it isn't Free10:01
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RST38hluke: it isn't RMS-free10:05
RST38hluke: do you see any mention of RMS at the page?10:06
tank-man lots to choose from10:06
luke-jr_RST38h: "free" is independent of RMS10:06
luke-jr_it's an English word even!10:07
luke-jr_maybe you mean "free of charge", a small subset of "free" also known as "gratis"10:07
RST38hluke: ATI85 is free in terms of English10:12
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thuxi have always wondered which one is more 'free' bsd-license or gpl-license10:16
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Stskeepsdepends if you're a gnubie or not10:16
RST38hIn terms of things you can do, BSD license is better10:17
RST38hGPL comes with strings attached, BSD is "do what you want" type10:17
thuxok seems clear10:18
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JZAhi anyone here11:12
JZAI have experienced issues with my chat client11:13
JZAI get duplicate and even triplicate contacts11:13
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JZAis there a way to get rid fo them without deleating the contact?11:13
JZAmy guess is that they are just nodes in an XML file11:13
JZAanyone can help me out debug this11:13
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JZAwhere can I find the specs for the maemo chat11:18
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Stskeepsdear god on the participants list for danish weekend:11:22
Stskeeps| 48 || doe john || || null11:22
JZAwhere can I find the specs for the maemo chat11:23
RST38hare || participants too?11:23
rmtI think I'll try to come to the Amsterdam thing in October..11:24
rmtWant to visit some friends in Holland anyway. :-)11:24
rmtAnd should probably de-register myself from Den Haag. ;)11:24
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RST38hThis netbook I would probably buy:
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timeless_mbp_crashanddie: hey...11:50
* timeless_mbp_ is scared11:50
Razumihin Ok... what on earth can that be good at?11:50
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RazumihinIrc while you play?11:51
Stskeepsalways good? :P11:52
Razumihin(and can I have that with keytronic ergoforce keyboard please :))11:52
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RST38hRazumihin: prolly not =)11:52
RST38hRazumihin: but it if can play movies well, it will make a decent video center11:53
timeless_mbpw/ hdmi for the real display11:53
timeless_mbpthe touch display can be for things like enter a pin or sign your name11:53
timeless_mbpor a game / special nav/input region11:53
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RST38hThe mother (and father) of all remote controls11:55
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RazumihinHmh... is maemo mapper just pure gtk... I think I could make those menus less confusing someday...11:56
lcukRST38h, i would have one but for the fact im a left hander and cant use that side, and also my keyboard gets tonnes of crap on it11:56
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RazumihinWho the heck has invented the option orders...11:57
RST38hlcuk: turn it upside down then :)11:57
suihkulokkiRST38h: without infrared and bluetooth?11:57
RST38hsuhkulokki: Yes. WiFi is sufficient. And they seem to promise some wireless video link for it.11:57
RazumihinI think if I would try to find "show me my position" button while i was driving I would hit something.11:57
RST38hRazumihinL Want to improve maemo mapper, start by adding overlaid "my position", "zoom in", and "zoom out" buttons a la Map application11:58
RazumihinRST38h: Yep. That's my plan...11:58
lcukheh RST38h11:58
RazumihinFor zooming i prefer the hw keys, but slider would be ok.11:59
lcukthe most novel thing ive seen like that has been putting LCD into the touchpad on a laptop11:59
timeless_mbpRazumihin: don't gps and drive11:59
lcukcant remember where i saw it..11:59
RST38hRazumihin: this is the most obvious problem with its UI and the developer does not like overlaid buttons for some reason11:59
Razumihintimeless_mbp: I normally irc and drive...11:59
lcukmornin timeless \o11:59
timeless_mbpit's explicitly in the manual ....11:59
timeless_mbphi lcuk11:59
RST38hRazumihin: slider is actually worse than two buttons with + and -11:59
timeless_mbpit's 2am, so yes, technically11:59
RazumihinOh, speaking of which I have to go and turn my parking disc...12:00
RST38hRazumihin: Slider is harder to control, especially considering high CPU usage that will make UI hang when you slide12:00
RazumihinRST38h: Yeah, true.12:00
RazumihinMaybe buttons then.12:00
lcukRST38h, a real proper variable rheostat slider :D12:00
RazumihinBut let's see when I have time..12:00
RST38hlcuk: I am sure RX-51 will have one :)12:00
RST38hSeriously, why doesn't Nokia release at least one or two steampunk-stylized devices?12:01
RST38hThey make all kinds of weird designer crap why no steampunk?12:02
Stskeepswooden rx-51? ;p12:02
lcukcos its all fun and games until someone pokes their eye out12:02
* lcuk has a wooden 81012:02
lcukbut you are right,asus are expanding their bamboo line i hear12:02
lcukRST38h, you can punk your 8x0 right now12:03
lcukall it needs is some sticky back plastic, a hot glue gun and some bits from the shed12:03
RST38hlcuk: yes but it is to dear to me and I am bad at modding :)12:03
lcukheh its ok, Stskeeps is bad at dressmaking, but hes gotta stitch in 30 devices to make a dress12:04
RazumihinI have already got steampunk nokia 9500 ;)12:04
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RazumihinBut the dinner ;)12:06
RazumihinBase is fully black on that12:06
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lcuki thought this was an 810 from the thumbnail12:09
lcuknow what would be cool would be something like that, but when you press keys, the screen actually makes the innards move and stuff12:10
JZAI have experienced issues with my chat client12:10
JZAI get duplicate and even triplicate contacts12:10
JZAis there a way to get rid fo them without deleating the contact?12:10
JZAanyone can help me out debug this12:10
lcuki dunno i dont use it sorry12:11
JZAmy guess is that they are just nodes in an XML file12:11
* RST38h uses Pidgin12:11
JZAwhere can I find the specs for maemo chat?12:11
JZAor the source12:11
man_in_ltoppidgin is evil12:11
man_in_ltopmaemo chat is a jabber/xmpp client12:11
RST38hPidgin is a bird.12:11
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lcukbbl anyway12:12
wjtmaemo chat?12:12
man_in_ltopchat client that comes with maemo :P12:13
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wjtman_in_ltop: oh in which case12:33
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wjtdamn. jza left before i could direct them to the telepathy source12:33
RST38hhe probably wouldn't be able to make use of it anywya12:33
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* Stskeeps wonders why there's matchbox-window-manager 1 development going on on the stage svn12:58
Stskeepswell just that the old WM is still being developed12:59
lcuki still poke around in some of my old code bases occasionally :P13:00
* lcuk made an alteration to one from 2001 just last week :D13:00
Stskeepsstill, nokia normally doesn't do things for no reason13:01
lcukthats true for any stable project13:01
RST38hSts: really? =)13:02
Robot101Stskeeps: yeah I'd contest that :P13:03
Stskeepsbut really, why work on a WM they don't use anymore? :P13:03
lcukisnt it used in olpc13:03
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* RST38h finally found who keeps him without 3G13:09
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RST38hFreaking military is saying that 3g interferes with their frequencies13:10
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RST38hThey do promise 3G on the subway by the end of 2Q200913:14
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Stskeepswb lardman13:17
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* RST38h wonders what would military use 2.1GHz for: it is too short for long distance communications, radars would not care about some measly 3G stations, and the short distance comms are not traditionally using this band13:17
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lcukRST38h, isnt that microwave frequency, and arent the mil interested in crowd control..13:18
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RST38hlcuk: microwave is 2.4GH13:19
RST38hlcuk: Somehow, the military has swallowed all those ovens and wifi stations and didn't puke13:19
Stskeepswtf @ thp's post13:19
RST38hBut 2.1GHz they have problems with, afraid to take a bribe in the open or just want too much, dunno13:20
Stskeeps(yes, i know that's probably vnc and such)13:21
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Stskeepsi will throw a honest to god fit if suddenly nokia comes out with fremantle for n8x0 :P13:21
X-FadeWell, I don't see why what he shows can't run in n810.13:22
RST38hSts" looks slow13:22
X-FadeIt is certainly not using any acceleration ;)13:22
Stskeepsyeah, i really wonder why use clutter in the first place13:22
lcukive been telling ppl this is a great way to feel it :)13:22
* RST38h does not get reasons behind clutter either13:22
X-FadeOnly used for bling?13:23
RST38hit looks like a really messy way to do Flash animations with glib13:23
RST38hX-Fade: isn13:23
RST38ht it kinda overkill for bling? :)13:23
X-FadeRST38h: Nah, OpenGLES bling ;)13:24
* lcuk hates lag13:24
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X-Fadelcuk: It is probably used to display something during lag that is already there?13:24
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lcukcan someone close the browser window  on my machine i opened and  now cant see anything with..13:24
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lcukheh X-Fade it was movie lag13:26
lcukgrrrs @ sts13:26
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lardmanso was that video with sw ogles?13:36
* lardman is a bit behind the times13:36
Stskeepslardman: i think it was just VNC/something13:37
lcukqoles trick :D13:37
lardmanoh, well that's a bit crap13:37
lardmanpardon my French13:37
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Stskeepslardman: if you listen to the music you'd understand :)13:37
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lardmanah, no speakers at work13:38
Stskeeps"wouldn't it be nice.." song :P13:39
Stskeepsat least the theme isn't orange.13:39
lardmanah ok13:39
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lcuklardman, we need a progress bar for how much disassembly you have gotten through13:40
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lcukand we expect holly to help whilst on honeymoon13:41
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lardmannothing since yesterday, I was splitting the functions into their original source files (the names of which were included in the debugging info)13:41
lcukwhere are you goin for that13:41
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lardmanbut might give that up as it looks a bit dodgy and some choices are hard13:42
lardmanRed Sea, Egypt13:42
lcukat least its not mexico13:42
Stskeepstablet on a pyramid pic  ;p13:42
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X-Fadelardman: Hurgada?13:42
lardmanyeah, we were thinking of Mexico, thankfully we decided against13:43
lcuklol if lardman tries that one, the next pic will be n810 in the nile13:43
lcukclosely followed by lardman in the nile :D13:43
lardmanX-Fade: looked at that, but decided for Sharm as we fancy some snorkelling, etc13:43
X-Fadelardman: Did a lot of diving in Hurgada. Red sea is excellent for that.13:44
X-FadeBut.. I'll never go to Egypt again.13:44
lardmanI'm not a diver, though Holly is, so I want reefs close to the shore :)13:44
lardmanyeah, well we thought we'd take a chance and see how it goes...13:44
lardmanUSA & Europe are really expensive for us atm13:44
X-FadeNature is very nice there.13:45
X-FadeIt is just that the people are so poor that they make walking around hard. And especially for women.13:45
lardmanjust not the food? ;)13:45
X-FadeAnd the armed soldiers at every corner weren't very nice too.13:46
lardmanyeah, well we're all set for a couple of weeks of chilling out and sunbathing, so no probs there13:46
lardmansounds a bit like India13:46
X-FadeThe food? Well do you like stews?13:46
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X-Fadelardman: Yeah, as long as you stay in your resort/hotel is not a problem.13:47
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RST38h.GR or .BG is the answer13:49
soapthe reefs are close to the shore in Guam.  ;)13:49
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RST38hNot as nice sea but at least you can walk around13:49
X-Fadesoap: That can be a downside too.13:49
X-Fadesoap: Locals standing on top of coral always give me the creeps.13:50
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soapI have all sorts of equipment for doing this.  Induction locators, rf rabbit and hound pairs, radar, etc.13:59
lardmanblokes with spades14:00
lardmanand buckets14:00
lcukbackhoe operators are great at finding buried cables!14:00
lcukthey have a 6th sense about em14:00
soapin guam, yes, blokes with spades.  On mainland I have a vac truck to excavate with air and water so as never to risk the line.14:00
lardmanyeah, just call in the gas company they are bound to find any electrical/telecoms cables nearby14:00
lardmanmay I ask why you need to find the cables, aren't they mapped anyway?14:01
lcuki think they move14:01
soapYou trust plans when digging next to such expensive infrastructure?14:02
soapNever.  You always want as-builts.14:02
lardmanah I see, so it's not a yearly "let's see where they are", it's a "let's check they got it right before we cut through it"14:02
soapAlso, why attempt and assume to cobble together 50 years of incomplete plans when we'll give you a full DB-backed inventory of every connection in every manhole with 3D coordinates of the lines and conduit fill patterns?14:03
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lardmanI assumed you already had the latter14:03
soapwe make it for them.14:03
lcukand then in another year they ignore and map again14:04
soapSome of these manholes have nearly 100 conduits in them.14:04
soapreal fricking mess.14:04
lcukshould see the mess behind our router!14:04
lcukyou and your mil spec nuke proof wiring has nothing on the rats nest back there! :p14:05
lcukinfact, what are your civvy rates lolo14:05
soapahh, but how many of those do you have on site?  I'm talking hundreds of them on the average base.  ;)14:05
lcukyeah i bet you do, its the same the world over14:06
soapcan't wait for copper to die.14:06
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lcukits the same with fibre tho14:07
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* lbt used to do something similar in Sellafield...14:08
lbtquite alarming to find entire buildings on the map but not there14:08
lcuksoap, isnt it a log more difficult to detect fibre14:08
lbtor vice-versa14:08
Stskeepslbt: taken by UFOs ;)14:08
lbt"oh, we demolished it"14:09
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lbtmore alarming to wander around the waste ponds and then have the monitors go wild as you left.... cold chills....14:09
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lbtand the time we found criticality waste in some drums and the foreman offered to "come in and shift 'em on the sunday when it's quiet"14:10
* Stskeeps ponders what to do while kernel-diablo builds in stable14:10
lbtgood idea... testing14:11
lcuklbt, if you work in hazardous conditions for long enough you get used to it and it becomes normal14:11
lcukso his offer wasnt anything different to other normal ones14:12
lbtyou should have seen the defences proposed to be built around that place after it turned up...14:13
lbtto be fair it was all worst case scenario... but that's nuclear safety for you14:14
lcukyeah scary stuff14:14
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* lardman wishes for some indication of n900 release data as Pandora looks like it might be back on14:21
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RST38hlardman: naaah14:22
lardmanI want some new hw!14:23
* RST38h concludes that SmartQ is now the only "new" device on the map14:23
lardmanthey seem to reckon June delivery, but I'll be away, but then it will probably slip anyway so perhaps....14:23
lardmanQ7 isn't out yet though14:23
lcuki got over my hardware fetish at christmas with my x4114:23
lardmanI thought I'd have too with a Pandora, but no14:24
lcukim now regretting it cos it is pen touch and isnt easy to get pen out to touch on the wall14:24
lcuki might go and nab one of the touch panels from the trafford centre lol14:25
RST38hlcuk: I am not sure what x41 may have in common with fetish14:28
lcukheh ive wanted a big touchpanel for yonks now14:29
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lcukand the x41 proves the principle works, but with the pen and fact its dpi is shockingly low compared to my 81014:30
RST38hplus the thing is ugly like hell and made by Lenovo14:30
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lcukRST38h, i think it looks and feels good :)14:36
lcukbut stuff like that is subjective anyway14:36
RST38hlcuk: puzzles me endless14:36
lcukill bbl as well14:36
RST38hlcuk: To me, Thinkpads are beyond subjective area, they are just plain ugly and unusable14:37
lcukits a small light laptop that works well :)14:37
RST38hOn just about any other laptop I can accept "subjective" but not on this abomination =)14:37
lcukand happens to have touchscreen14:37
lcukand was cheap14:37
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lcukcya later14:38
RST38hgood luck14:38
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RST38hit's freaking 3.5lbs, ohhh...14:38
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pupnik_that was so cool the dude who ID'd a song for me based on a sample i uploaded14:40
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pupnik_how is excitement for linuxtag in germany?15:34
X-Fadepupnik_: non-existent?15:34
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X-Fadepupnik_: Well, at least there is nothing planned for maemo?15:35
pupnik_i'll bring my n810 and show it to ppl15:35
pupnik_and - lol - the pandora if it gets finished :)15:35
pupnik_maybe i can even finish a new emu conversion15:36
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pupnik_yes, that thing i wanted to have done last year15:36
lcuklol pupnik, while you are there do you wanna finish my presentation from last year as well15:36
pupnik_maybe i can demo the liq coolness to some ppl15:37
pupnik_but i have to learn it15:37
pupnik_somebody should make a game out of that voxel engine i optimized15:38
pupnik_a maemo-commanche15:38
pupnik_would be easy as pie15:38
lcukyou mean the landscape thing?15:38
lcukthat was indeed the coolest thing i saw out of sdl on this device :)15:38
pupnik_:) thank you!15:38
pupnik_my friend who wrote one of the first 3d games15:39
pupnik_he guessed the algorithm by seeing the artifacts15:39
lcukwell theres something to be said from looking at the optimizations people made in the past :)15:40
lcukits just nowadays people expect multiple layers and complexity that just cant be done!15:40
pupnik_that's the joy of these low power devices15:40
pupnik_i mean theoretically15:40
pupnik_joy of programming etc - you know15:41
lcukwell i'm hooked!15:41
pupnik_tell you something about music production with synths15:41
lcukyou arent coming to copenhagen are you15:41
pupnik_sometimes the best work you do, is with a few low power synths, not a full studio15:41
pupnik_the limitation helps the creative process15:42
lcukpupnik_, i would love a full orchestra on these devices15:42
lcukyou have seen boxar and the theremin and even pyano15:42
lcukits entirely possible15:42
lcukerrr dunno15:42
lcukanyone got link with dates15:42
lcukend of this month15:42
pupnik_ok no, still moving15:42
lcukyou  never stop moving, even when underground15:42
pupnik_it's cause i can only move a few boxes a day15:43
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pupnik_screwed up my back15:43
lcukdo you think you could pull together the gaming aspects of maemo in time for the summit?15:43
pupnik_i can't think right now - pain level too high15:43
lcuksummit is in amsterdam - could do another mad tour15:43
pupnik_when when15:43
lcukyou dont have to think, just hit ppl with sticks15:44
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lcukagain im hoping someone gives links15:44
lcukim on vnc and cant open a browser15:44
RST38hstab 'em with sticks even15:44
pupnik_no i really can't sit/stand/walk right now15:44
pupnik_just maybe 20-30 minutes at a stretch15:44
lcukwhat happened15:44
pupnik_have a herniated disc - 4-5th lumbar15:44
pupnik_an order of magnitude worse than a broken ankle, just for rough estimate15:45
lcukonce again, ouch!15:45
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lcukwhat about a broken finger15:45
pupnik_still broke!  is a joke!15:45
pupnik_hows yours coming along15:45
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X-Fademikkov_: ping?15:46
lcukit will grow back ive stopped stressin that its gonna reopen now, tho i thought i had last night after a bath15:46
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pupnik_oh baths can be bad.  use cream.15:49
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pupnik_so who here had the audio sample identification app?15:50
pupnik_i have another song i love15:50
lcukits not infection im worried about (theres my own body protection from that15:50
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lcukit was the swelling, it was like a frikkin sponge15:50
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lcukexpanded back up to et proportions15:50
pupnik_i bite my fingernails.  i think stuff like that helps immune system stay trained on external grot15:50
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lcukthe nail has started growing now, its just growing in the wrong direction15:52
pupnik_lol.  that sucks!15:52
lcukthat will take a while to settle down lol15:52
lcuki am so tempted to wedge a stylus in the bandage and see how well it would work15:53
lcukdid you see the mascot competition on the forums? :D15:54
X-Fadelcuk: When everything fails:
lardmanlcuk: you realise your finger will be a whithered wraith-like thing once you get the bandage off :D15:55
lcukyeah X-Fade quim mentioned on forums he was former meamo related guy..15:55
lardmanthey'll probably give you special finger exercises to do15:56
lcuklardman, i already do15:56
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lcukive taken bandage off myself twice now15:56
X-Fadelcuk: Yep, he was at the last summit too.15:56
lcukand last night i was shocked at how much skin came off in the water15:56
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X-Fadelcuk: Ehm, no was coming, but didn't make it.15:56
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lcukthen the finger blew up like a balloon soaking it up15:56
lcukahhh x15:56
lardmanas I said, osmosis, trying to equalise the alcohol inside and out ;)15:57
lcuk"they" wont give me anything to do15:57
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lcukive not seen an english doctor yet - i went to see nurses and they have just given me more bandages now its dried and healing15:58
lcukits only a fingertip..15:58
lardmanplenty more where that one came from hey15:59
* lcuk wiggles them all16:00
lcukincluding my fingerpuppet16:00
lcuk(hence the mentioning at the start of the mascot thread ;))16:01
pupnik_for people considering maemo summit in amsterdam:  i can organize rental of a house for a few days.16:03
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pupnik_even a houseboat (fun option)16:03
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lcukpupnik_, heh getting drunk and then seasick too!"16:09
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pupnik_frankly i think nokia should just identify the dudes who are working on useful stuff, and fly them to a meeting16:10
pupnik_not people like me16:10
fiferboylbt: Hi David16:12
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RST38hpupnik: Crimson Fields got ported to S6016:15
RST38hpupnik: How about doing a Mameo port? ;)16:15
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pupnik_dunno crimson fields - will look16:19
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StsN801lo afb16:22
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andrewfblackstupid mibbit I really need to install a real irc client on my work computer16:29
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lcuklol andrewfblack whenever im in with mibbit i forget and open links or just close the browser16:31
lcukim used to irc just goin to task tray and not actually closing16:31
andrewfblackYeah same here16:32
andrewfblackand yesterday Freenode had mibbit blocked due to some spamming16:32
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lbthi fiferboy16:37
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fiferboylbt: I have tested nested scrolling and vmax16:37
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fiferboyNested scrolling is working well, and got rid of the performance issue in preferences16:37
pupnik_what is vmax?16:38
fiferboyvmax seems a little bit too restricted in a long scroll area16:38
* andrewfblack can't figure out the last bug keeping Minimalist 2.0 from being launched16:38
fiferboypupnik_: Restricting the maximum scroll speed for Qt finger scrolling16:38
lbtlimit the maximimum speed when you release your finger16:38
lbtI guessed 10016:38
lbtit has no effect whilst your finger is touching16:39
pupnik_are there any interesting apps that would use these features if ported?16:39
fiferboylbt: hildon-pannable-area uses 500 by default16:39
lbtpupnik_: any Qt apps :)16:39
lbtunits though....16:39
lbtI have no clue ... 100 whats?16:40
fiferboypixels per frame16:40
lbtso it should be per second16:40
fiferboy"Maximum distance the child widget should scroll per 'frame' in pixels per frame"16:40
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lbtthat's pannable16:41
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lbtI meant my "100"16:41
lbtcould be the same16:41
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fiferboyIt sounds like h-p-a means 500 pixels (maximum) 25 times per second to me.16:42
lbtthat's a lot16:42
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lbton a 800x480 screen16:42
fiferboyI assume a frame is a motion event, and it defines 25 motion events a second16:42
fiferboyTrue, but a list widget can be much, much longer than the 48016:43
lbt500/sec sounds more rational16:43
fiferboyIt depends on how they define a frame16:43
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lbt25 screenfulls per second....16:43
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fiferboyHmm, that does sound too fast.16:44
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GuySoftis Eero Tamminen here?16:44
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lbtanyhow, current setting is too slow for you?16:45
fiferboyIt seems to scroll about a screen height when I try it as fast as I can16:46
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lbt100 -> 200 ?16:47
fiferboyI think that would be much better, assuming it directly translates to twice the scroll distance16:48
lbtif you scroll fast you should be able to reach twice the distance16:48
lbtthere's no 'boost'16:49
glassscrollspeed boost would be nice option imho16:49
lbt(although I've considered that... boosting highspeed and damping low speed)16:49
lcuklbt are the scroll untis just steps per frame, or steps per second16:49
lbtI think 100s per second16:50
lbtlooking at the code16:50
lcukthe initiall code in liqbase for kinetics is units per frame16:50
lcukand fades too quickly on laptop16:50
lbtyeah but then the frame rate changes :)16:50
lcukthe zooming view uses seconds correctly now :)16:51
lbtback in a bit16:52
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mikkov_X-Fade: there?17:10
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X-Fademikkov_: Automatically imported apps from Extras to Downloads.17:16
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X-Fademikkov_: Info is from description in Extras.17:17
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mikkov_X-Fade: yeah, I noticed17:22
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mikkov_X-Fade: I'm not sure if it's good to have _everything_ from extras in downloads17:24
mikkov_I need to do some editing at least17:24
mikkov_and maybe fix crawl install, because I think that it doesn't work17:24
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X-Fademikkov_: Well, it is in user/* so it is it should be there :)17:26
mikkov_X-Fade: the import didn't use Maemo-Display-Name?17:26
X-Fademikkov_: I flagged everything beta quality.17:26
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X-Fademikkov_: No.. crap forgot that :(17:27
X-FadeWell, I can do a fix run later.17:28
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mikkov_X-Fade: you used the new name "Extras" for .install's. now application manager will have two extras, maemo Extras and just Extras17:30
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X-Fademikkov_: It doesn't match on name, but on url?17:31
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mikkov_X-Fade: now there's two Bombermans and . Other one has to be removed17:32
mikkov_and fix the unixname for the original entry17:32
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X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, that is what you get when people don't follow instructions ;)17:33
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mikkov_X-Fade: it's not possible to delete entries?17:36
X-Fademikkov_: No, not for mere mortals ;)17:37
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X-Fademikkov_: Problem solved ;)17:38
mikkov_there's also stuff like which doesn't belong to downloads (or in user/*)17:38
X-Fademikkov_: Not in user/* probably.17:38
X-Fadewoosh, gone..17:39
thopiekarX-Fade: Could you remove two of my projects on garage?17:42
thopiekar*please :)17:42
X-Fadethopiekar: Sure.17:42
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qgilStskeeps: how do you say "join us" in Danish?17:53
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qgilSts|office - StsN802 ? Or anybody else with a clue of Danish?17:54
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Stskeepsyeah - it depends on the context :)17:55
qgil"Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend: join us!"17:55
qgilor something along these lines17:55
qgilfor the subject of a blog post17:56
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Stskeeps"Vær med til Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend!" (join the mozilla/maemo danish weekend)17:57
qgiland the ? is one of those "o"?17:57
Stskeepsone of the 'ae'17:57
qgilI'll look for one  :)17:58
andrewfblacklol never seen a ? mark in a black box before lol17:58
Stskeepsæ ?17:58
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qgilVær med til Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend!17:59
mib_w1tezbIs this a place where I can ask for help17:59
qgilah, I had found it in the character map17:59
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qgil(first time I find anything there, actually)17:59
Stskeepsit's the ae in maemo :P17:59
Stskeepsyou can also do "Deltag i Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend" which is more along the lines of participate18:00
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qgilwhatever you say, I trust you (glubs)18:02
Stskeepsthe worst part is that i actually think my english is better than my danish, even though it's my mothertongue :P18:03
qgilbut... I like the more the "ae"18:03
qgiland "See you in Copenhagen!" (that's for the closure18:03
qgilmib_w1tezb: sure, just ask18:04
fireunsome awesome video today of the hubble repair18:04
Stskeeps"Vi ses i Koebenhavn!" (oø)18:04
lbtmib_w1tezb: yes.... just ask :)18:04
Stskeepseh. why does my irssi say oe is oo.18:04
qgilKoe or Kø ?18:04
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Stskeeps ;)18:05
mib_w1tezbhow do i use my n810 with email, and make it sync so that when i delete something using it deletes from the n81018:05
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fireunI tried using the realmedia link for nasatv on my 770 running 2008 at school yesterday - but it kept saying corrupt data18:08
fireunshould I use the yahoo feed or something?18:08
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qgilStskeeps: alright, thanks!
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lcukqgil,  the mascot/logo for the event looks wicked18:12
lcukthey should use it for more than one event!18:13
Stskeepsnp, i even received a notice about the event from a professor at my uni/work earlier :)18:13
Stskeepsi wonder if they've made the connection between me and Mer yet :>18:13
mib_w1tezb#nick jack18:13
lcuki wonder if you have made a connection between you and mer yet :)18:13
qgillcuk: I would have preferred a beats with five eyes, you know18:13
mib_w1tezb*nick jack18:14
qgilI'm sure that there is plenty of those fossiles in the Danish soil18:14
Stskeepslcuk: that's a very good question18:14
lcukheh then speak up!  i quite like the catoonowl thing18:14
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qgilthe narval was cool, but has no dpad18:14
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lcukwe could genetically modify it18:15
pacifictyphoonso could aanybody help me18:15
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qgila kangaroo would honor the case of the 77018:15
lcukpacifictyphoon with what?18:15
pacifictyphoonthe email thing18:15
pacifictyphoonhow do i get my n810 to reconise when ive deleted something using on a pc18:16
pacifictyphooni delete emails but they are not deleted on my n81018:16
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lcukyou know quim, your mentioning of code in your hands was cool :) would be good to find a nice overview archive of the history of maemo18:16
Stskeepsthe mascot should be that first maemo server ;p18:16
lcuksorry pacifictyphoon i dont use email18:16
pacifictyphooni want to know how to fully sync it18:16
lcukothers will though, or post onto talk.maemo.org18:17
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pacifictyphoonwhen i post on talk.maemo nobody helps18:17
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pacifictyphooneverybodys more interested in prototype mumbo jumbo18:18
[A2K]_pacifictyphoon: did you try to use imap?18:18
pacifictyphoonwhats imap18:18
[A2K]_mail protocol18:18
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[A2K]_much better then pop318:18
lcukmmm doesnt sound normal, i usually see folks falling over themselves, perhaps your question is so obscure use case that people dont encounter it18:18
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pacifictyphoondoes hotmail have imap?18:19
lcukask microsoft?18:19
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lcukthe hotmail connection info should know18:20
[A2K]_i think it does. pop3 is obsolete today.18:20
lcuki thought pop was disabled on hotmail years ago tho18:20
pacifictyphoonkk thanks for the help18:20
pacifictyphoonnope still up18:20
lcuko_O so i couldv kept my outlook express account!18:20
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pacifictyphoonis this irc just for talking about maemo or can we talk about anything18:23
Stskeepsbacon is a much discussed topic18:23
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lcukno it isnt18:23
lcukthe first rule of #maemo is dont mention the bacon18:24
lcukif you tell everyone then we wont have much for us!18:24
suihkulokkimmm.. bacon18:24
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JaffaHmm, definite bacon shortage at the Jaffahaus recently18:25
pacifictyphoonwell if we can talk about anything... who watched paccquio hatton??18:25
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* lardman hires a C-13018:25
lcuksee look, you mention bacon and lardman smelt it from outside IRC!18:25
JaffaOh, I had lardons in a galette earlier this week18:25
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lcukif you do an air-drop of bacon supplies, does that mean that pigs have flown!18:26
* lardman prepares to fly past at 500' with 50 tons' 18:26
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Jaffalcuk: lol18:26
lcukanyway, vanishing lol \o cyas later18:27
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Bobbe_pretty cool, fireun18:27
Bobbe_the video, I mean. I wonder how cool it would be if they focused on some guy's box and he was watching happy tree friends or pr0n or sth18:28
pacifictyphoonnobody watched it then?18:28
Stskeepspacifictyphoon: is that some anime or how was it? :P18:30
Jaffapacifictyphoon: 'fraid not18:30
JaffaStskeeps: Boxing18:30
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Stskeepswell then no :P18:30
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andre__jeremiah, around?18:31
pacifictyphoonlol stskeeps are you a programmer by any chance18:31
Stskeepspacifictyphoon: no, i'm a perfectly normal person18:32
Stskeepsbut some might disagree18:32
JaffaDemi-god, perhaps?18:32
thopiekaretrunko : PING?18:33
Stskeepsdemi moore? :P18:33
thopiekarhi Jaffa18:33
JaffaStskeeps: More like Dudley ;-p18:33
pacifictyphoonso anybody into sports?18:33
Jaffalo thopiekar18:33
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pacifictyphoonwhats smpt18:37
pacifictyphoonbetter or worse than pop318:37
Stskeepssmtp is the mailbox you put a letter into for it to be sent, pop3 is your home mailbox18:38
Stskeeps(well, or retrival service rather..) .. and imap is a home mailbox18:38
pacifictyphoonso imap will remove emails that i have deleted18:39
pacifictyphoonbecasue pop3 does not18:39
pacifictyphoonpop3 only seems to download them18:39
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Stskeepspop3 downloads them and often removes them online afterwards18:40
Stskeepsimap accesses your mailbox directly (and its stored on the server)18:40
pacifictyphoonif i delete an email on my laptop using the it does not delete off my nit18:41
pacifictyphooncan pop3 do that or not18:41
Stskeepsimap should do that - if the NIT checks it18:42
Stskeepsbut the email client on NIT is .. interesting18:42
pacifictyphoonwell i used claws mail aswell but pop3 did not do that18:42
pacifictyphoonhavent tried imap because i do not know if hotmail supports it18:43
Bobbe_pop3 can delete messeges on server if you configure it to18:45
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pacifictyphooncan it delete them on device?18:45
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Bobbe_what do u mean?18:46
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pacifictyphoonif something is deleted by the hotmail web service will the emails delete off my NIT18:47
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Bobbe_no, probably not18:49
Bobbe_pop3 doesn't sync, it just downloads what is there when it connects18:50
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pacifictyphoonok thanks18:52
Bobbe_ur looking for imap =), and a better e-mail provider18:52
Bobbe_gmail will do all the magic you want/need18:53
Bobbe_can't you set hotmail to forward your mail to gmail while ppl get used to the new address?18:53
pacifictyphoonif i delete something on NIT will it be deleted on the server?18:53
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Bobbe_what usually happens is that you can configure your pop3 settings to delete the e-mail on the server once it is _downloaded_ into your device. But once again, it doesn't sync18:54
qgilandre__: ping18:54
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qgilandre_ ping18:55
pacifictyphoonthanks bobbe18:55
andre__qgil, pong18:55
qgilhi there18:55
andre__nickname conflicts ;-)18:55
qgilone thing, the email Richard sent about buggy apps in extras-devel18:56
andre__qgil, working on it already18:56
qgilfor some reason has vanished completely in may mailbox18:56
qgilno inbox, no trash..18:56
andre__want a copy? :)18:56
Bobbe_pacifictyphoon, doesn't hotmail have forwarding? If it does, set it to forward to a gmail account. Gmail has imap support, and all the features you wished hotmail had =)18:56
pacifictyphoonbut then i would have to control my hotmail and gmail18:56
qgilok, but forward to jeremiah since it's also a bout missing dependencies in pythin packages and etc18:56
qgiljeremiah can then ask the python project if they are planning to work on those packages18:57
qgilor if there is anything deprecated, etc18:57
andre__qgil, i've pinged jeremiah here already about it, waiting for an answer18:57
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qgiland now... time to leave this office18:58
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andre__okay, going to split this up into two tasks and send an update of the first part to you soon18:58
andre__have a nice evening :)18:58
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Bobbe_pacifictyphoon, not really. if it forwards everything, why bother? Blow hotmail to hell =))18:58
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pacifictyphooni use msn and would like everything to be in 1 place19:00
pacifictyphoonill resort to it if its nessicary19:00
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* lardman|home sees that he has ~450 unread emails in his hotmail account19:01
* lardman|home only uses it for messenger19:01
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pacifictyphoonwhen replying to emails it will come up with my gmail19:01
pacifictyphoonwell if somebody sent it to my hotmail19:02
lardman|homethat would be rejected by my email spam filter then probably19:04
lardman|homedifferent from and reply to addresses and all that19:04
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Bobbe_g-mail has a "send as" function in its web interface that would be just fantastic to have on an e-mail client19:06
Bobbe_what I'm doing with my nit is abandoning modest (not pushing accurately enough, takes a long time to refresh) and using mnotify + gmail web interface19:07
Bobbe_been working like a charm so far19:07
Bobbe_and if you use the web interface of gmail you can easily add your hotmail account as a pop account and reply to ppl using your hotmail address19:08
lcukisnt modest open and actively being worked on again?19:08
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Bobbe_I dunno lcuk. App Manager hasn't shown any updates for it, and it's the default client for OS2008. Should be pretty stable, I guess. Still, it spends hours under active wifi without noticing anything different, even if I tell it to check every 10 min. Then like 1:30h later it starts beeping like it's going to explode, 329048920348 e-mail arriving at once19:12
lcukheh Bobbe_19:12
lcuki understand that kind of frustration, i think its only recently been woken (i might be completely wrong and nopthing is happening with it) and if thats the case we might get updates eventually19:13
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* Bobbe_ was thoroughly chastised over his command of the language the other day. Don't wanna make more people angry at my unforgivable forgetfullness of indefinite articles in an irc channel19:16
Bobbe_exactly lcuk, it doesn't deliver19:16
Bobbe_(quite literally)19:16
Bobbe_let's hope it does in the future19:17
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toggles_wanyone have issues with registrations?19:25
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andre__define "issues"?19:26
yergaandre__, just received your mail ;)19:28
andre__yerga, you like it? ;-)19:28
yergaandre__, it's weird because actually hex-a-hop don't use maemo-select-menu...19:28
andre__i didn't test myself, these are nokia results19:28
yergayeah, I Imagine19:29
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andre__yerga, hmm... just ignore my email in that case? :-)19:30
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yergaandre__, I'll do :) Anyway I have to update it soon, so I'll do sure it doesn't happen.19:32
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toggles_wandre__: n810 wont register with ekiga, registers with diamondcard though19:38
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andre__describe "wont register".19:40
andre__any errors? what steps?19:40
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toggles_wandre__: i setup my ekiga account, connect to some wifi, the little online symbol up top says there is an error and a little icon in it says 'sip network error'19:41
andre__anything else works when using that wifi?19:42
andre__did you try with another wifi?19:42
toggles_wyep, gtalk registers and i can talk19:42
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toggles_whas worked on a couple of wifi's but most of the time ti fails19:42
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toggles_wweird part is same account on same network on pc registers19:45
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andre__ok, that's really strange. hmm, no idea19:45
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toggles_wandre__: any pointers on where to look? and way to get a log? run it in verbose mode?19:46
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toggles_wandre__: Thanks!19:47
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toggles_wandre__: actually, it's not ekiga, is it rcom ? the default sip client19:47
toggles_wandre__: Thanks though.19:47
Macerwatching the wrath of khan19:47
toggles_wyeah ;-)19:48
Macerit cracks me up when they talk about cryogenic ships sent out into deep space in 1996 with genetically engineered humans onboard :)19:48
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andre__toggles_w, hmm, well, my link is not really that helpful, but that's what i'd ask for in a bug report :)19:49
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toggles_wandre__: thanks mate19:49
Macerwow that moon landing seriously fucked up people's sense of perception of advancement19:49
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lbtfiferboy: ... I *just* got it to scoll out of bounds :)19:52
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fiferboylbt: Nice!19:52
fiferboyWhat's it look like?19:52
lbtI kindof expected a segfault...19:53
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fiferboySo, it's not exactly ready for release?19:53
elninjaWhat's white?19:53
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lbtno, I meant as you logged in I got the first .so onto the tablet and it overshoots :)19:54
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lbtit doesn't bounce back yet19:54
lbtelninja: the bg colour19:54
fiferboyDoes it work in all directions?19:54
elninjabg color of what?19:54
elninjaI just joined in the middle of the conversation19:54
lbtfiferboy: yes19:54
_gpg_i was looking for some coverflow demo application using Qt, i didn't get any success from Qt chanel since i'm looking for something accelerated using QGLWidget for example, i would like to know if some of you tried this in maemo project19:55
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lbt_gpg_: not coverflow... but we're doing fingerscrolling19:55
_gpg_anything work perfectly when using a strong PC but for handless devices it's more complicated to find a good answer19:55
fiferboySweet.  I was looking at the declaritive UI examples, and if you overshoot in two directions at once it only bounces back in one direction19:55
lbtfiferboy: mine just flies off the screen in an unbounded way19:56
lbtwhich isn't surprising since there is no rubberband yet19:56
_gpg_lbt, thank you19:56
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fiferboyThat's just as good, except I expect you can fly of the screen in two directions.  QtKinetics can only do one!19:56
lbtyes indeed19:57
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fiferboyWhat happens to the scrollbars when you overshoot?19:58
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lbtthey sit there.... no squish... but they don't fly out the ends either ;)19:58
lbtjust trying a textedit area... and that's fine19:59
fireun"the dark side of the earth"19:59
fiferboylbt: I like the look of this list view:
lbtvery nice20:00
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lbtwe can do that20:00
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lbtok... food now.... bak l8r20:01
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RST38hGP2X is out20:05
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_gpg_i have some download problem, can anyone confirm to me if CPULOAD tool is a part of the SDK ?20:06
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lardman|homeRST38h: so it beat the pandora after all20:07
lardman|homehmm, is that the right one?20:08
lardman|homeah, the GP2X Wiz20:08
_gpg_is cpuload a generic C application ? (i'm not on linux, please help if you can)20:10
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_gpg_I would just like to know if it's source code is available or if it's something provided as binary from nokia for example20:19
lardman|homewhere did you read this?20:22
lcuk hahahaha20:22
lardman|homesounds like a measurement to me, like "outside temperature"20:22
_gpg_lardman|home, (i dont know if you were talking to me)20:23
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lardman|home_gpg_: yes I was, looks like it's a scratchbox stress tool20:26
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lardman|homeso I was wrong20:26
lcuk_gpg_, pool/maemo4.1.2/free/s/sp-stress/sp-stress_0.1.1-1_armel.deb20:26
_gpg_lcuk, thank you20:26
lcukDescription: Tools for creating cpu/io/memory load20:26
lcuk Contains three tools (cpuload, ioload and memload) for creating20:26
lcuk the corresponding kinds of system load.20:26
lardman|homelcuk: was that a piss-take call?20:26
_gpg_lardman|home, than you20:26
lcukcheck for source using that package20:26
lcuklardman|gone, apparantly not20:27
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lardman|homevery odd20:27
RST38hExplorers, hehe20:27
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lcukmy god :) having network working jsut by coming home is a dream :)20:28
Stskeepspigs are flying, lcuk has an AP? ;)20:28
* lcuk slap20:28
* lcuk waves dodgy finger20:28
lcuktracy keeps calling it a tampon :|20:28
RST38hlcuk: has she tried using it in this function? =)20:30
GeneralAntillespenguinbait didn't manage one civil or reasonable reply to anything from yesterday.20:30
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping?20:31
_gpg_lcuk, looks too old ? what do you think ?20:32
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lcukwhy not use the proper repo, or even apt source20:33
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_gpg_lcuk, i have to wait untill i come back to home to have a linux pc20:34
lcuko_O arent you wanting this for the maemo device..20:34
* lcuk ponders what to do with a file called "gary___________readme__________________notes.txt" in the root of my dev folder20:36
RST38hAre there others, with different number of underscores?20:36
lcukjust that one20:36
lcukits much bigger than all the other files in there20:36
lcuki did it to stand out :)20:36
lcuki miss em if i just make em called "readme" lol20:37
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RST38haaa,bbb,ccc,ddd,... usually work for me20:37
RST38haaaaaa for the most important one :)20:38
lcukwhat if something more important comes in ?20:38
RST38hI write it down on paper.20:40
lcuki do that in liqbase, this was actually code notes20:41
lcukpseudocode and stuff20:41
lcukis there a version of wine that i can use to allow running linux binaries to work in windows20:41
lcukvariation/similar program20:41
lcukmmnh thats a bit heavy, but you are right of course20:42
lcukwhat if i didnt need visual stuff20:42
lcukjust console20:42
lcukbugger lol20:43
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lcukmmmmm can i run explorer.exe in linux?20:43
ShadowJKprobably not.20:43
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* lcuk will just have to port liqbase to windows20:47
* lcuk opens visual basic20:47
* jaska closes bomb shelter hatch20:47
lcuklol locutus liqbase began life in vb :) theres components and elements wrote in that - i did the first version of sketching there and in ;)20:48
locutuslcuk: my comment still holds20:48
locutuslcuk: sick20:48
lcuklocutus, making vb work fast and effectively takes as much dedication as writing asm ;)20:49
lcukand is just as obscure lol20:49
locutuslcuk: like i said20:49
locutuslcuk: SICK20:49
locutuslcuk: also, i LIKE WRITING ASSEMBLY :-(20:49
locutusi learned programming with m68k assembly, AND LIKED IT20:50
lcuki used do too :)20:50
lcuk68k IS fun20:50
lcuki hate x8620:50
lcukarm asm reminds me muchly of my amiga :)20:50
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lcukits got 16regs (just like our D and As)20:50
ShadowJKI think colinux has no "visual stuff" actually20:51
lcukits got an x11 driver20:51
lcukand can show linux windows through20:51
lcuki had it installed a while ago20:51
lcukbut its an entire distro hiding underneath20:51
lcukbut i suppose thats whats needed20:51
ShadowJKI just had this memory that you needed to run a X server in windows to get any graphics out of it, and that you otherwise could just ssh to the local colinux process20:51
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ShadowJKheh, I guess there's quite a small demand for the stuff that's in between msys+cygwin and colinux :)20:53
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locutuswhats the problem with just using XDMCP to the Colinux host?21:00
locutusits like, taking advantage of X :P21:01
locutusimplementing a full virtual grapics card and all that shit, would just be way to much hassle21:01
locutusthis way you can even make use of things like native hw accel for graphics21:01
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ShadowJKLoCusF, yeah :/21:08
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ShadowJKI had a SD card fail on me21:09
ShadowJKIt's very disturbing, because it's entirely silent, no errors reported whatsoever at any stage by anything21:10
ShadowJKOnly noticed it because mp3's were garbled and missing big chunks21:10
Stskeepswhich is why zfs is nice :P21:10
ShadowJKSure enough, I copy random crap to fill up the card, flush/drop caches, sha1sum data on card and the original, and the sha1 mismatches21:11
ShadowJKIt's just so stupid, these cards do frickin ECC and the data transfer is checksummed too, something somewhere is either buggy by design or plain buggy if errors don't propagate to me the user21:12
ShadowJKAnd thanks to the wear leveling stuff, these "bad sectors" jump around and even vanish at times21:13
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fiferboylbt: You there?21:44
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fiferboyHave you used Qt Animation Framework at all?21:46
lbtnot yet21:47
lbtI spoke to them though21:47
lbtand they said it was overkill for this task21:47
lbtit's ported for Mer21:47
lbtwell, it builds for Mer21:48
fiferboyOk, I was going to say they have some sort of flick widget21:48
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lbtyeah, what we're doing is enabling the framework21:48
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lbtwhat they're doing is enabling the applications21:49
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lbtactually so is hildon21:49
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fiferboyWhat you are doing, anyway.  I'm not doing anything.21:49
lbtheh - testing is vital21:49
lbtso is encouragement ...21:49
lbtand having a user21:50
fiferboyI'm moral support21:50
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* lbt needs it sometimes...21:50
lbtthis is looking good though... just writing the next bit21:51
lbttrying to decide if I should bounce on the x-axis whilst carrying momentumn on the y.21:51
lbtbut yes21:51
fiferboyI had the bounce independant on the axis, and it looked wierd when x was bouncing while y was still running21:52
lbtbut if y stops sharply21:53
lbtso maybe decelerate both at the same rate...21:53
lbtyeah, I just won't reverse direction21:53
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* lbt goes back to emacs21:54
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fiferboyI notice with overshoot in QtKinetics you can drag as far as you like past the limit, it isn't limited by the same overshoot_maximum as on release21:55
Myrttiemacs ♥21:55
lbtfiferboy: mmm, I might....21:55
* lbt notes that Myrtti has good taste21:56
Myrttilbt: you'll disagree when I show you a screenshot of mine21:56
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lbtof course....21:57
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lbtdamn... wrong bit...21:57
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fiferboylbt: from h-p-a "Force applied to the movement, multiplies the calculated speed of the user movement the cursor in the screen"22:16
fiferboyDoes that sound like your speed boost?22:16
lbtheh - pressure sensitive22:16
lbtI just meant slow movements tend to be slowed22:17
lbtfast ones accelerated22:17
lbtnon-linear velocity when you release your finger22:17
lbtso a flick is accelerated (as you'd intend)22:18
lbtbut a slow movement stops almost dead (as you'd intend)22:18
lbtsometimes it's disconcerting to have it move even though you've *tried* to stop22:18
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fiferboylbt: I have a style sheet to make scroll bars look the same as Fremantle22:21
lbtyou *may* get a .so l8r22:22
fiferboyDo you think we should apply the stylesheet by default for Fremantle compiles in the finger scrolling code?22:23
lbtlets see22:23
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fiferboylbt: Sent you an email22:25
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pupnik_  new pandora vid22:36
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RST38hThe Pandoras will be handmade in UK!22:38
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ukkianyone have/know where to find iptables nat kernel modules for latest os2006?22:39
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pupnik_i can understand being sick of the delays22:43
pupnik_still, it's the piece of kit i want22:43
ukkievening pupnik_22:43
pupnik_hi ukki!22:43
pupnik_why os2006 - 770 as router?22:45
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ukkigot an old laptop i could use if i could get it connected to net somehow22:47
ukkiit doesn't even have ethernet22:47
pupnik_you have some usb-ethernet for the 770?22:48
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ukkiyes, freebsd works nicely with it, i just need to get 770 routing22:49
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ukkiyou still have your gregale sdk installed? :)22:51
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wazdHeya maemo, long time no see :)23:02
RST38hhello wazd23:02
fiferboywazd: Still working on mer ui?23:04
wazdfiferboy: omg! Hey Andrew!23:04
wazdJaffa: Heya :)23:04
fiferboyHey, is your Jabber still screwed up?23:04
pupnik_i do not have dev computer up and running - all in boxes23:04
wazdfiferboy: Well, I still can't see you online23:05
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fiferboyHehe, something is wrong at one of our ends23:05
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wazdfiferboy: I've switched to the Pidgin but the problem still remains I suppose23:05
fiferboywazd: I'm online now, so I would say so.23:05
wazdfiferboy: How are you? Haven't seen you for a thousand of years already :)23:07
fiferboywazd: Pretty good.  Working on a per project and trying to eventually find time to work on my other projects23:07
fiferboywazd: What are you up to?23:07
wazdfiferboy: well, currently I was MIA cause of work and damn holidays23:08
fiferboyAre holidays not good?23:08
wazdfiferboy: but I'm still trying to find time to work on various maemo projects andMer :)23:08
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wazdfiferboy: not THAT holidays :)23:09
wazdfiferboy: had to visit 5 or 6 places, almost no rest23:09
fiferboyAh.  Not so relaxing23:09
wazdfiferboy: so I'm totally dry after all that stuff :)23:10
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wazdfiferboy: btw, do you want to join Mer project too?)23:11
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wazdfiferboy: since you're an uber-gtk-hacker :)23:12
fiferboywazd: Maybe if I get some spare time.23:12
fiferboyActually, I am working almost exclusively in Qt for the moment.23:12
wazdfiferboy: aw, that bird-related software?23:13
fiferboywazd: Yep.23:13
wazdfiferboy: if you need some UI help - just ask :)23:13
fiferboywazd: Thanks!  I am almost at the point where I want to optimize some dialogs for small/large screens23:14
pupnik_i bet solid videophone could help sell RX-51s23:14
wazdpupnik_: I think solid existing RX-51 could help sell RX-51 :")23:14
* RST38h has not seen anyone using videophone outside of Google23:17
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jaskaseeing peoples ugly mugs isnt really always wanted23:22
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fiferboyWell, I'm off23:24
fiferboywazd: I'll send you some screenshots in the next few days23:24
wazdfiferboy: c ya, I'll try to fix jabber23:24
wazdfiferboy: ok23:25
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fiferboylbt: If you get a chance to send an .so, that would be awesome23:25
lbtyep... it's not quite working yet23:25
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