IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-05-12

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mmatth1if the user (or an application) changes the icd connection, should icd (?? or someone, not sure about all the layers) tell dnsmasq to restart?00:01
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rm_youSo, who from Nokia is coming to Denmark?00:10
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mikkov_there was a list somewhere00:12
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rm_youI need to convince one of them to bring me a phone :P00:13
rm_youI'll pay them for it, of course :)00:13
rm_youIs the N97 released in Europe?00:14
rm_youdamn, yeah, looks like July >_>00:16
rm_youI want one... so much... and my phone is basically dead...00:16
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lardmanrm_you: lol00:19
lardmangood luck though :)00:19
lardmanGeneralAntilles: you going?00:19
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lardmanStskeeps: do you have kernel code somewhere too?00:34
lardmanor a link to the download site even?00:34
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lardmanhmm, I wonder if that prism stuff is the firmware in the form of a table of binary data...?00:43
GeneralAntilleslardman, Copenhagen? No.00:43
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lardmanand the next summit....? Go on! :)00:44
GeneralAntillesrm_you, shoulda pre-ordered from when it what $48400:44
GeneralAntillesrm_you, an EU handset wont have a US warranty00:44
GeneralAntillesComing out same time in US, anyway.00:44
rm_youdamn it was HOW CHEAP?00:46
GeneralAntilles%35 off00:46
GeneralAntillesI got a 5800 for about $25000:46
rm_youi wish i had known00:46
rm_youI wantses one >_<00:47
GeneralAntillesSorry, want me to call you for the next one? :P00:47
rm_youI will have the money...00:47
rm_youso whatever00:47
GeneralAntillesHonestly, I'd wait for a Maemo phone before spending $500+ on a Symbian device.00:47
rm_youstill, would be great to get a nokian to grab me one and bring it :P wouldn't they get an employee discount or something? lol00:47
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rm_youyeah well that'll be WHEN exactly?00:48
rm_youmy phone is broken NOW. >_<00:48
GeneralAntillesDunno, maybe RX-7100:48
GeneralAntillesGet an E71, 5800, or something in the mean time.00:48
rm_youlike, majorly bizznorken00:48
rm_youi suppose00:48
GeneralAntillesE55, even00:48
GeneralAntillesBe cool and join the 5800 club with me. :P00:49
rm_youlol so spend $359 for a TEMPORARY phone? >_>00:49
GeneralAntillesWait for a discount00:49
GeneralAntillesAmazon has it for $300 sometimes00:49
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GeneralAntillesDell had it for $20000:50
GeneralAntillesN97 isn't worth it next to an RX-51, really.00:51
GeneralAntillesAnyway, rm_you, I had this problem myself00:52
GeneralAntillesI'm glad I didn't bother with a really expensive S60 phone00:52
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GeneralAntillesJust wait. :P00:52
rm_youif i buy through tmobile it'll work in the meantime i suppose00:52
GeneralAntillesS60 sucks anyway00:52
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rm_youlooking at the 355500:54
rm_youonly phone tmobile sells that supports 3G00:54
rm_youso i could use it with my n800 ^_^00:54
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rm_youand it's free with contract, which matters little as i'll be with tmobile for like, forever anyway00:55
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pupnik_you know the more real life you have, the less irc you do01:04
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pupnik_you know the more real life you have, the less irc you do01:05
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GuySoftandre__, hey, i sent you the coredump01:23
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shaprDoes anyone know which OMAP3 chip the next tablet will have?01:41
wjtshapr: what're you plotting?01:42
shaprEr, nothing really...01:43
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shaprJust trying to figure out what sort of graphics hardware and DSPs will be in the next tablet.01:44
wjtshapr: wondered if you had sinister monadic plans :)01:44
shaprWell, sort of...01:44
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shaprI was just investigating ARM cores, since I own two, and I wanted to see what the next tablet would offer.01:45
shaprI am trying to build GHC for my N800 and BUG though.01:45
lardman3430 iirc01:45
lardmanlook for 3530 for the docs though01:45
lardmanspruf98b.pdf would be a good start01:45
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, OMAP343001:45
shaprOk, so that makes it a 600MHz core, with PowerVR SGX 530 and the C64x+ DSP ISP01:46
lardmansounds about right01:46
shaprSo now I just have to figure out if ARM11 binaries will run on the Cortex-A801:48
lardmanyes they will01:48
lardmanalways backwards compatible01:49
lardmanthough you may have issues with the version of GCC/libc/etc01:49
shaprYeah, I was wondering about that.01:49
lardmanwhat are you looking to run?01:49
shaprI was just wondering if I could build binaries that would work on N800/BUG/whatever is nokia's next.01:51
lardmanAnyone got performance figures handy for the PowerVR chips in the omap2420 & 3x30?01:51
GeneralAntillesAPI is the issue, not ABI01:52
lardmangcc3 vs 4?01:52
lardmanno name mangling differences?01:52
LiraNuna<lardman> Anyone got performance figures handy for the PowerVR chips in the omap2420 & 3x30?01:54
LiraNunathere are but not in details01:54
LiraNunaat least for the 244001:54
LiraNunalardman, // does this help?01:55
lardmanI was looking to compare with the Samsung 6410 which reckons 4M triangles/s (transform only) and 75.8M pix/s fill rate (shaded pixels)01:55
lardmancool thanks, that was the page I was thinking of01:56
lardmanso basically the Samsung chip is about twice as fast01:57
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xnt14~seen Stskeeps02:05
infobotstskeeps is currently on #maemo (10h 21m 25s). Has said a total of 40 messages. Is idling for 2h 11m 48s, last said: 'evening rkirti'.02:05
xnt14oh 2h :P02:05
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xnt14Stskeeps: you there?02:06
xnt14which one xD02:06
xnt14StsN800, Stskeeps, or Stskeepsie?02:06
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lardmanwell as exciting as it is sitting here reading about the wonders of the omap3X30 chips (and it is actually quite exciting), I think I should go to bed02:11
lardmannight all02:11
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b-man~burn the world03:08
* infobot pours gasoline all over the world, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze03:08
b-man :D03:11
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Shadow__Xcan carman get the fuel econ03:59
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* b-man 04:03
xnt14omfg :P xD04:03
b-mandid you meet mtc yet? lol04:03
b-manare you interested?04:04
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GeneralAntillesShadow__X, how do you propose? ;)04:06
GeneralAntillesMost cars don't have flow gauges04:06
Shadow__XGeneralAntilles, by the computer04:09
GeneralAntillesShadow__X, what information from the computer are you planning on using? :)04:10
Shadow__Xi just want the fuel economy of my car04:10
Shadow__Xscangauge can do it and wondered if carman could04:11
GeneralAntillesThe values needed to calculate that aren't available from the OBD-II04:11
Shadow__Xi mean it should be able to04:11
Shadow__Xthen why can scan guage 2 do it04:11
GeneralAntillesMaybe it's having you enter additional values manually?04:13
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Shadow__Xi dont think so i am pretty sure you can figure out the values with just by using the cars computer04:14
Shadow__Xodb2 should give you a wealth of info04:14
GAN800Not enough, though04:15
Shadow__Xeverything could do more04:15
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Shadow__Xit gives enough info for atleast that04:16
GAN800Talk to the Carman devs. There IS a reason.04:17
Shadow__Xis there a carman room04:17
Shadow__Xi rather use carman with my n810 but if am leaning towards the scangauge04:18
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torkianohello, I get this error when HAVE_GNOME_DOC_UTILS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL08:00
torkianoin scrachbox08:00
torkianoin Ubuntu my applications compiles without problems08:01
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torkianocan anyone help me?08:04
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* RST38h suggests against using autoconf08:08
RST38hNo autoconf -> no problem08:09
Stskeepsi'm with RST38h on that one:P08:11
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torkianoRST38h, Stskeeps :)08:37
torkianoprobably, but is not my decission :(08:37
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RST38htorkiano: then add that crap to the .am file, similarly to the crap that is already there08:47
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torkianoRST38h, Similar to this: ?08:50
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RST38htorkiano: no, I think you have just pasted code that processes this define08:55
RST38htorkiano: while autogen complained about the define itself08:55
RST38hanyways off to work. it has been a painfully long weekend.08:55
torkianoRST38h, mmm, yes, you are rigth.08:56
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torkianoDo you know how can I add HAVE_GNOME_DOC_UTILS to the AM_CONDITIONAL?08:56
torkianois in file?08:57
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fireunit wasnt me09:21
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X-Fadeoh phone oh? :)11:57
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lcukfireun, yes it was11:59
lcukmornin X-Fade Stskeeps \o11:59
X-FadeHi lcuk.11:59
lcukniels, supposing i wanted to start to manage a number of packages on garage, do i have to register each of them at the moment, i know some things are changing re .git stuff12:01
lcukyeah i saw that, looks very interesting :)12:01
lcukit was only a couple of years ago lots were saying there wouldnt be an OSS telephony stack like that12:02
X-FadeI wonder if we could use that to send SMS messages through the modem of the RX51? :)12:02
lcukdunno, i still no nothing about networking in general12:02
lcuki wish phones responded to normal ping :D12:03
X-Fadelcuk: Well you can create a project on garage where you just put all your application in one git?12:03
lcukive got that, im just sorting out and organising things12:03
lcukbut i dont really want everything in one place12:03
lcukbecause now i can run liq* modules completely standalone, i could theoretically just release each tiiny project one at a time12:04
X-Fadelcuk: But does it really make sense to have them all seperate?12:04
lcukthey are still bundled together at this point mainly so i can fixup bugs and make sure i can handle everything12:04
lcukin some respects yeah x-fade12:04
lcuka common question from people were "i want the book reader, but dont want xyz"12:04
X-FadeOne can always check out one specific folder?12:05
lcukothers said i love the sketching etc12:05
lcukwell thats tricky and they cant have a menu item12:05
StskeepsX-Fade: you can't check out subtrees in git12:05
Stskeepsthat's one of the reasons why i requested multiple git repos per project :)12:05
X-FadeStskeeps: Well yeah, source code. But you can build a specific subfolder if you want?12:05
lcukive written this to allow people top run standalone stuff as well if they desire, but its obviously nicer running the whole thing :)12:05
lcukoh yeah x-fade, folders are on their own12:06
StskeepsX-Fade: well you can't say have a repository with directories a b c and then only check out a12:06
X-FadeStskeeps: It is not like liqbase is kernel sized ;)12:06
lcukbut suppose a dev wants to help out with the book reader12:06
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lcukdo they need to checkout the whole thing including skethcing and library and everything..12:06
lcukX-Fade, not yet :)12:06
X-Fadelcuk: How long does a pull take? 3 secs? :)12:06
lbtQt is a single project...12:07
lcukbut when 30 or 40 or 50 complete full apps exist inside12:07
RST38hmore stuff = more mess12:07
lcukagreed rst12:07
RST38hso yea, separate apps are good12:07
lcukX-Fade, its 60mb12:07
X-Fadebut also more time to manage.12:07
RST38hX-Fade: Not really12:07
lcukyes X-Fade12:07
X-FadeAnd to track changes you need to look at every repo.12:07
lcukbut on the same tune if/once this takes off other apps will come from completely outside the core stuff im playing with12:08
RST38hX-Fade: From lcuk's point of view it is all one thing but from developer's point of view only his/her app exists + the liqbase common lib12:08
X-FadeAnd sharing common code is harder.12:08
* lcuk is proving a concept12:08
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* lbt thinks a single project makes more sense until you have a published and stable API12:08
RST38hCode sharing shouldbe controlled anyway12:08
lcukX-Fade - does a developer need to download the full GTK library source just to develop a GTK app12:08
X-Fadelcuk: How would you track dependencies between the libs and the code?12:08
RST38hUnless you want to end up with another GNOME or KDE12:08
lcukagreed lbt12:08
lcuki was just pondering out loud howit might be done iwth the infrastructure we have12:09
X-FadeI'm always for the point, let's see when we get there.12:09
lcukRST38h, code sharing is best when its just the library and specific dependencies12:09
X-FadeBut I guess that is me ;)12:09
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X-FadePermature optimizing is the root of all evil..12:10
lbtdoes apt-get install liqbase-dev work?12:10
lcuknot yet i was gonna try to make a meta package last night to do that12:10
lbtplus... it's easy to take a git tree with multiple subdirs and break it up12:10
lbtand you can experiment inside a tree too12:11
lcukyeah its coming into shape quite nicely, but before i start running i obviously want to cleanup and know which direction each little module will take12:11
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lcuklbt, do you get commit messages from my server12:13
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lbtI think the real answer is multiple git repos per project ;)12:14
lcukmm maybe you had to signup lol, ive been a busy beaver recently12:14
lcuk1 repo per project12:14
lcukbut multiple repos for the whole thing12:14
lcuko_O can i just carry on writing into single head principle repo but have it update the other sub repos at same time12:15
lcukcrap, gotta go, bbl ta for chat guys \o12:16
lbtmay be an answer when we have multiple gits per project12:16
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RST38hlcuk: What is the problem anyway?12:44
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RST38hlcuk: Why not make a single SVN directory, create separate directories for each project under it (including the common part) and let developers check out whatever subdirectories they want, or the whole thing?12:45
* lbt throws up at the thought of svn12:45
* lcuk throws up at the thought of lbt throwing up at the thought of svn12:46
* lbt watched south park episode 1 last night and hope it's not true love!12:47
lcukRST38h, thats what i have, but im scoping out how easy it will be for a developer to just create their own liq* app with only the -dev package and none of the other stuff12:47
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RST38hlcuk: He does not have to check out the other stuff anyway12:48
RST38hlcuk: If you just want to make a package with development libraries and headers, do it by all means, although this is completely separate from the source code repository issue12:48
RST38hlcuk; There are two kinds of developers: hardcore ones who check out a copy of the SVN and update it regularly and normal type, ones that just use whatever -dev package they have got12:49
mikkov_X-Fade: Why can't I add another comment to ?12:55
X-Fademikkov_: I comment per day limit?12:56
X-Fademikkov_: 1 ;)12:56
mikkov_X-Fade: why do we need that?12:57
VDVsxlbt, south park fan ? :P12:57
X-Fademikkov_: Because ratings are comments basically.12:57
lbtit has its great moments!12:57
mikkov_except from the author12:57
X-Fademikkov_: Well, we might want to be a bit smarter about it.12:58
mikkov_imo, everybody should be able to leave a comment without a rating12:58
X-Fademikkov_: Yes, there is a bug open for that. That is on my todo.12:59
mikkov_X-Fade: it's not that important. login problems are getting even worse for me13:00
X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, testing different setups at the moment.13:00
X-Fademikkov_: I just did a change that hopefully makes things a bit better there..13:01
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mikkov_at the moment my login stays valid from one to 5 clicks13:01
X-Fademikkov_: Yep, for me too.13:02
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RST38h  <=== lcuk, is it really that crazy over there? =)13:02
mikkov_X-Fade: well now it stays valid much longer :)13:02
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mikkov_not anymore :)13:03
X-FadeHmm one of the servers in the cluster has clock issues.13:04
X-Fadentpd[17888]: adjusting local clock by 3796.866996s13:04
X-Fadentpd[17888]: adjtime failed: Invalid argument13:04
X-FadeWell, that can't be good.13:05
Stskeepstimezone too maybe13:05
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X-FadeNo, timezone is ok.13:05
X-FadeSomehow it can't adjust the clock.13:05
X-FadeWhich is weird.13:05
lardmanhi chaps13:05
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lbtis ntp user privileged?13:06
lcukRST38h, sounds reasonable, ask lardman, he just did a similar slog across the country lol13:07
lcuk\o mornin simon13:07
* lcuk hates clocks13:07
lcuki almost threw my tablet out the window after seeing "clock skew detected your build may be incomplete" message again the other day13:08
Stskeepshah :P13:08
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lardmanaargh, lost a patch somewhere13:14
lardmantoo many directories of stuff13:14
mikkov_X-Fade: I did some packet dumping yesterday and noticed that sometimes timestamps were one hour off13:14
mikkov_sometimes the expiry date was set to 198113:15
X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, server 1 was one hour off.13:15
X-Fademikkov_: I corrected that an now it looks better.13:15
X-Fademikkov_: Yeah the 1981 expiry date is for things that don't change.13:15
lardmanI'm rubbish, does anyone have a linky to pH5's PowerVR power-up kernel patch?13:18
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lardmanhmm, now where did I write down the register block address...13:23
lardman~kick lardman for not making better notes13:23
* infobot kicks lardman for not making better notes13:23
Stskeepstrying to match up with the smartq? ;)13:24
lardmanwell I was reading, and I saw that people were speculating that the iPhone has a Samsung s3c6400 in it, and it has an MBX lite inside, so....13:24
lardmanthe Intel 2700G is another one which contains a PowerVR13:25
mikkov_X-Fade: the login seems to work for me. But when I logout I keep seeing logged in pages from browser cache :)13:25
lardmanI wonder how much the register mappings would change, other than the base address13:25
X-Fademikkov_: That is one of the 'benefits' of caching pages.13:26
X-Fademikkov_: But it should not cache when logged in..13:26
X-Fademikkov_: Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT13:27
X-FadeCache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=013:27
X-FadePragma: no-cache13:27
lardmanOMAP3 docs are still crap for the PowerVR stuff13:27
X-FadeShould really not be cached in your browser ;)13:27
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X-Fademikkov_: Although we allow some pages to be cached for 5 minutes when authenticated.13:30
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lardmanhmm, I need to compare the Samsung and PowerVR caps and see if they might be the same things13:38
lardmanSamsung seems to manage 8 textures, while I thought the MBX could only do 213:39
lardmannot sure about the MBX Lite though13:39
lcukone of those textures is the powervr logo13:40
lcukits like windows version for emerging countries lol13:41
lcukis there a list somewhere for maemo specifically where someone has gone through the entire rootfs folder structure and worked out whether stuff can be culled without impact13:42
lcukor noting what impact it will have13:42
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lcuki have a slight problem with being out of space :$ my fs is running on empty13:43
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X-Fadelcuk: locales?13:43
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lcukX-Fade, i can look later13:44
lcukwhats the actual path tho?13:44
* lcuk gets lost in unixfs13:44
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lardmanhmm, I guess # of textures is limited by memory and whatever limits the software layer puts in place13:50
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* RST38h starts suspecting that lardman has met the 3D accelerator in Samsung chip14:12
RST38hlardman: true?14:12
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lardmanI've read the docs14:13
lardmanam torn between picking up one of these smartq things or trying to hack the driver on the n8x014:13
RST38hlardman: I am also jittery on the smartq14:14
RST38hlardman: it is too cheap and cool looking14:14
lardmanI think the Q7 would be interesting, not too keen on the Q5 other than as a machine to hack on14:14
lbtlardman.. hack the driver and you may well end up with a free/rebated SmartQ14:15
lbtQ7 = Q5 with bigger LCD14:15
RST38hlardman: I like the Q5 case better but the bigger screen wins14:15
Stskeepslbt: and battery14:15
lardmannot much to be done without hw though, the spec details are all there, just needs some experimentation14:15
lbtsame resolution14:15
lbthow transfererable would the driver be N8x0<>SmartQ14:16
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lardmanwell not transferable at all, and there's no driver for the Samsuung, just a description of the register bank, which is what is interesting14:16
roadiesanyone know where you can get the mysql source tree for maemo?  all I see is executable in the garage.maemo site14:17
lardmanapt-get source ...?14:17
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roadieslardman: I'm on a Fedora system trying to cross-build it, not sure what apt-get source to get, have you every tried it?14:27
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lardmanI use it, but haven't tried to build it14:28
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lardmanwhat does "apt-cache search  mysql" give you as options?14:29
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crashanddieoracle and postgre14:32
lardmanwhat's the address of the scratchbox repo?14:35
X-Fadecrashanddie: tsk tsk.. PostgreSQL ;)14:35
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lcuk   hahahahahaha15:06
Stskeepsfive pounds?15:06
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* andrewfblack wonders why reggie hasn't put up new Minimalist theme yet15:18
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aspectmy n800 seems to periodically decide that it doesn't want to read /media/mmc1 -- file manager shows it as unformatted but refuses to do anything about it.  a reboot tends to fix it, but sometimes it takes a few.  is this likely to be the card, the socket, or something else?15:37
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dl9pfaspect: formatte with fat ?15:46
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dl9pfhmm here i had it that the fat formatted card got ro and also the fat driver oopsed15:49
dl9pfso if you reboot, probly a fs-check is done and its remounted15:49
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aspecthmm good one, maybe I'll reformat it and see how that goes15:51
Stskeepsout travelling, andre? :)15:51
X-Fadeandre_: Trolling?15:51
andre__Stskeeps, heh. not yet. why? :)15:52
Stskeepshehe, just being in .de :P15:52
andre__oh. where are you?15:52
Stskeepsah, i meant that you are in .de instead of the other place you live :P15:52
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* andre__ confused15:53
andre__no, i'm going to be in .de the entire next week15:53
andre__X-Fade, trolling? where?15:53
X-Fadeandre__: Looks like you are a troll atm?15:53
Stskeepsandre__: the "andre_" person confuses me then :)15:53
andre__didn't see that.15:53
andre__andre__ is andre__. i don't know andre_.15:54
andre__and i don't work on qt :)15:54
andre__now i get the conversation. thanks for the hint :-P15:55
aspectunrelated question: as of a few hours ago, when I turn my device off the d-pad LED keeps flashing -- what could be causing that?15:55
andre__someone wants to propose a new nick for me? :)15:55
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Stskeepsklapper? :P15:55
Stskeeps(to clap in danish :P)15:55
lardmanto have the clap or to clap...? ;)15:56
andre__can i have a poll on ITt? :-P15:56
Stskeepsbugbait? ;p15:56
andrewfblackif you did andre_______ it would be easier to see your not andre_15:56
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andre_andrewfblack: actually I think he came here first....15:57
andrewfblackhow about andre_1 and andre_215:57
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andre_______hmm, i got seven underscores. now that will surely impress the girls in here.15:58
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andrewfblacklol first you have to get some girls in here :P15:58
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andre_______something_else, darn, we already had that name conflict in #gtk+ on :)15:58
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something_elseandre_______: yes, /nick somethingelse  does not work, I just tried it myself ;}16:00
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aquatixandre_______: watch out noone steps on your tail16:04
andre_______i'll teach'em!16:04
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xnt[from_School]Hello World Again :P16:17
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fiferboylbt: Hi!16:31
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lcuk_homelesslcuk - tracy, all i wanted to do was check my mails!!! @/16:55
* lcuk_homeless lost his computer16:55
Stskeepshehe, rdesktop?16:56
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Veggenlcuk: there is only one solution: each person has his/her own computer.16:58
Veggensharing just doesn't work.16:58
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RST38hlcuk_homeless: DoS her!17:00
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RST38hBrain Scanning May Be Used In EU Security Checks.17:03
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lcuk_homelessit might work if we all distract her with flashing xchat, but then again she might close it and thats not what i want17:12
lcuk_homelessVeggen: it normally works, but occasionally we collide17:12
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pupniki want a patch for firefox that deactivates all flahs and scripts on pages that are not exposed17:13
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pupnik90% cpu as usual17:13
lcuk_homelesspupnik: a proer flashblock would be better really17:13
lcuk_homelesssimply dont have extra stuffs running unless explicitely asked17:14
* lcuk_homeless is front17:14
pupnikhi hi17:15
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RST38hactually, if somebody provided a wrapper for gettimeofday...17:16
lcuk_homelesswhats that matter?17:17
lcuk_homelessor how would it help17:17
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pupnikfeh, i'm going to have to hack ffox itself17:18
pupniknot finding this patch17:18
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RST38hlcuk: Flash players execute gettimeofday() in a busy loop17:30
RST38hlcuk: making some modifications to this function should make them less evil17:30
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pupniknice RST38h17:31
pupnikRST38h: i don't see why hidden tabs have to execute anything17:32
pupniki mean, it might break some time-aware pages17:32
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pupnikbut i want them to SUSPEND17:32
pupnikwhen i am not using them17:32
pupnikthe whole, damn, page17:32
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RST38hpupnik: Well there are two modifications you can make to gettimeofday17:33
RST38hpupnik: the first one is to avoid syscall and that can be done by providing gettimeofday value from the kernel via some device (/dev/rtc springs to mind) and mmapping it from libc17:34
pupnikyou think it's mainly flash?17:34
RST38hI don't think, I know17:34
* RST38h did some testing17:34
pupniki haven't built ffox yet - running the beta (shiretoko) atm17:34
RST38hpupnik: the second one is to add usleep() or nanosleep() inside gettimeofday() so that it decreases resolution but makes it less evil17:34
RST38hrebuilding ffox won't do you any good17:34
pupnikoh right17:35
pupnikflash bin17:35
RST38hDo an strace on MicroB17:35
pupnikthank you17:35
pupnikdumbest thing i've typed in weeks17:36
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RST38hOpen a site with some flash movies and strace MicroB on that site17:44
RST38hAfter you throw up, look for "gettimeofday optimization" on Google17:44
RST38hYou will find at least one fix done by RedHat guys using Intel TSC counter (not applicable to tablets) and some discussion17:45
RST38hThe fix basically involves exposing gettimeofday result to users via mmap and overloading gettimeofday() libc call17:45
RST38hA better idea would be locating idiots who wrote Flash plugin and repeatedly hitting them on the head with a baseball bat17:46
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pupnikRST38h: no way to suspend flash?17:48
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RST38hpupnik: MicroB has got a FlashBlock extension17:50
pupnikmanually activating flash is probly the answer17:50
pupnikvia flashblock17:50
RST38hyes, it is the lazy answer to the problem17:51
pupnikcould each flash object be instanced in a new process RST38h ?17:53
pupnikthen all non-displayed tabs' flash could be suspended, yes?17:53
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derfI like this baseball bat proposal.17:54
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pupnik  Zen FM - stream is pretty nice atm17:59
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RST38hpupnik: I do not think you can make them processes18:05
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RST38hpupnik: threads yes, but not processes18:06
RST38hin any case, suspending them just accomplishes what flashblock already does18:06
RST38hthe real solution would be to give them some total time slice to run and forget about them, let them share that time slice between themselves18:07
pupnikflashblock won't suspend a running flash on the tabs i have open18:10
pupnikbut not displayed18:10
RST38hMicrob does not support tabs does it?18:10
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RST38hand Flashblock is made for MicroB18:10
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timeless_mbpRST38h: technically microb does support tabs18:12
timeless_mbphowever we never shipped the tab ui18:12
timeless_mbpand tabbed ui is stupid for an os where the window manager itself uses tabs18:12
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timeless_mbpRST38h: and yes, Flash is indeed the gettimeofday caller18:13
timeless_mbpbut anyone could have told you that w/o wasting time using strace and friends18:14
timeless_mbpas for who wrote flash, it's Adobe, you don't really have to look too hard18:14
timeless_mbppupnik: if you're playing a flash video in the background18:14
timeless_mbpdo you really want it suspended?18:14
timeless_mbpmaybe it's the evening news18:14
timeless_mbpand all you really care about is the Broadcaster's voice18:15
timeless_mbpor maybe it's a concert, and all you really care about is the music18:15
timeless_mbpor maybe it's gmail chat and all you want to know is that someone sent you a new message18:15
timeless_mbpor maybe it's a custom app that tells you when you need to rebid to capture an eBay auction18:15
timeless_mbpor maybe it's a custom app which does file downloading or torrenting18:15
timeless_mbpplease don't try to micro manage flash this way18:16
timeless_mbpyou're as bad as the product people at nokia18:16
timeless_mbpwho go out of their way to break user's ability to actually use the product18:16
* RST38h seriously considers just ignoring this guy18:16
pupniktimeless_mbp: 99% of the flash that runs i want stopped18:17
timeless_mbppupnik: i know18:17
Stskeepsdisable it in the friendly menu and enable it when you need it?18:17
timeless_mbpbut trust me18:17
Stskeepsthat's what i do :)18:17
timeless_mbpyou don't want a policy to break these things18:17
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timeless_mbpif you don't want flash, disable it18:18
timeless_mbpour browser has one of the *best* uis for doing that18:18
pupniki can't disable a running flash18:18
RST38hIt is pointless18:18
timeless_mbpunchecking flash in components should18:18
Stskeepsno, but you can preempt it :P18:18
rmtIs there a cmdline tool (or a library call) to switch the display on/off and to unlock/lock the kbd ?18:18
pupnikhmm ty timeless_mbp will look at this18:18
Stskeepsrmt: dbus calls probably18:18
Stskeepsat least for the last part18:18
RST38hMaemo Flash player has got a fundamental bug. It is not going to be fixed. It does not come with the source.18:18
timeless_mbpRST38h: it isn't Maemo Flash Player18:19
timeless_mbpit's Adobe Flash Player18:19
timeless_mbpyou're getting the same genuine flash player that a normal person gets18:19
RST38hNow, I personally do not want to hear how this bug improves my user experience and how I really do not want it to be fixed18:19
timeless_mbpplease don't complain about maemo18:19
timeless_mbpRST38h: then go away18:19
timeless_mbpdon't complain about working features here18:19
timeless_mbpyou already have choices like;18:19
* RST38h did not complain about any features, especially to timeless18:19
timeless_mbp1. turning off flash block18:20
timeless_mbp2. using adblock18:20
timeless_mbp3. probably using flashblock18:20
* RST38h was discussing with pupnik possible ways to fix the Flash problem not having the source code18:20
timeless_mbps/(1.*) block/$1 player/18:20
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timeless_mbpRST38h: offhand, that's probably a (c) violation18:20
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timeless_mbpyou'd basically have stolen code on your computer18:20
timeless_mbpif you hack it18:20
* RST38h sighs18:21
Stskeepsdepends if you do it with a LD_PRELOAD for gettimeofday or kernel modification18:21
RST38h*** Ignoring PUBLIC from TIMELESS_MBP18:21
timeless_mbpi'm assuming that changing gettimeofday would break video playback18:21
* timeless_mbp shrugs18:21
RST38hSts: Apparently, it takes both18:22
* pupnik is sorry to have brought it up18:22
RST38hSts: There is another idea though: given that these flash players are probably threads, isn't there some way to control thread priorities?18:22
* xnt[from_School] is back18:23
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: anyway, the thing i was speaking about the other day was that i released a firmware internally for one of those smartq5 tablets and less than 12 hours later it ends up with a good bunch off rumours (it's the famed n900 nokia os, it's the beta release of smartq english firmware, it's a pink elephant), and it's own blurry pictures collection:
RST38hSts: This modification can probably be done in the MicroB itself18:23
xnt[from_School]Stskeeps: it was a internal release?18:23
xnt[from_School]n900 OS xD18:23
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: cute18:24
timeless_mbpfwiw, flash player must do some work on the ui thread18:24
timeless_mbpsince that's in general the only thread from which they're allowed to do rendering18:24
timeless_mbpand if someone manages to stuff up the browser nicely enough18:24
StskeepsRST38h: i believe there's much to be earned in seperation of tasks in one way or the other in a browser .. browsers are almost like OS'es or virtual machines these days in some ways18:24
timeless_mbpbecause the ui thread was waiting for behavior from a thread18:24
timeless_mbpStskeeps: fwiw, external process hosting for plugins will probably come18:25
RST38hSts: Google Chrome, here you go :)18:25
timeless_mbpi don't know when18:25
timeless_mbpdefinitely not for fremantle18:25
timeless_mbpbut keep in mind that flash applets like being able to talk to eachother18:25
RST38hSts: No, I do not think the current embedded object model allows task separation18:25
timeless_mbpso if you have 4 flash applets, you'd probably have only one flash host18:25
timeless_mbpwhich means if 1 of those applets is important and you try to penalize the other 3, you're shooting yourself in the groin to improve your walking18:26
StskeepsRST38h: eventually the browser and everything just merges together anyway :P18:26
pupnikwow this is informative :)18:26
timeless_mbpStskeeps: fwiw, RST38h  is wrong18:27
pupnikas a user, i want stuff i'm not using to not consume cpu18:27
timeless_mbppupnik: correct18:27
timeless_mbpbut as a program, the program has no clue which stuff you care about or why18:27
rmtProbably more important .. I've now setup bootmenu, and copied files across to /dev/mmc3 (an ext3 partition, 2nd partition on internal mmc, aka immc2 and /dev/mmcblk0p2) .. duplicated with gnu tar, like does it .. but no luck..says failed to boot from immc2 (sfdisk says: /dev/mmcblk0p2 : start=   120064, size=  3812096, Id=83)18:27
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timeless_mbpas a user, i want to be told which things are using my cpu18:27
pupniktimeless_mbp: firefox is taking 80-90% of my 2ghz pentium-M atm18:27
pupnikand i'm in irssi now18:27
timeless_mbpand have a way of saying "that's ok", "this isn't"18:27
RST38hpupnik: this is wrong.18:28
timeless_mbpthe only person who can decide which is ok is the user18:28
crashanddiedoes the n800 run at 400Mhz on OS2008?18:28
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: most of the time18:28
crashanddieI think that's bull but just want to verify18:28
RST38hpupnik: I think it has just gone haywire, restart18:28
timeless_mbpit does the same cpu frequency scaling that the n810 does18:28
pupnikno this is 30 tabs of craptastc sites without adblock :)18:28
RST38hcrash: yes whe in performance mode18:28
crashanddieoh, right18:28
timeless_mbpit has to switch to the lower speed when it needs to do DSP work18:28
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i would actually really love something like a simple resource monitor that showed how much a process burned of resources18:28
Stskeepslike, in general18:28
RST38hpupnik: well, start with adblock then =)18:28
timeless_mbpStskeeps: that's precisely what i've asked for internally18:28
timeless_mbpit's the right answer to the right problem18:29
timeless_mbpinstead of "let's cripple the browser"18:29
timeless_mbpbelieve me, i do have your interests at heart18:29
timeless_mbpbut please, don't just try to shoot first and ask questions later18:29
RST38hSts: Actually, I probably do not want "everything" merged into the browser :)18:29
timeless_mbpthe questions your customers will ask are "why is everything broken"18:29
timeless_mbpbecause your wild aim will hit lots of unintended targets that you didn't dream of18:29
timeless_mbpyou and most nokians18:29
* timeless_mbp does a lot more dreaming than most people18:30
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i'm pondering if we can do some simple things - you saw the mer rightmost menu? including a simple visualization of how much cpu/io/whatever it burns.. it really should be possible to get it semi accurate18:30
Stskeepslike high network traffic, etc18:30
Stskeepscausing the tablet to lose power18:31
timeless_mbpStskeeps: my proposal for the os2008 or so time frame was to change how the battery meter worked18:31
timeless_mbpso that in addition to showing charging it would show draining18:31
Stskeepsthat'd be neat18:31
timeless_mbpand clicking it would let you see who was draining it the most18:31
Stskeepsi wonder if something like dtrace would be useful, hm18:32
timeless_mbpmostly your choices are DSP task, WiFi, processes, unknown kernel tasks, processes using gettimeofday, and plugins18:32
timeless_mbpsomething like that anyway18:32
Stskeepsor things keeping backlight alive18:32
Stskeepsi mean, it has to be fairly standard constants18:32
timeless_mbpyeah that too18:32
timeless_mbpStskeeps: i /think/ that it might be possible to ship an oprofile enabled kernel...18:32
timeless_mbpwhere oprofile is not on most of the time18:32
timeless_mbpbut clicking the battery meter enables it18:32
Stskeepsso it profiles while battery meter is open18:33
timeless_mbpand then a second or two later you tell the user which things oprofile found18:33
timeless_mbpyou'll need to add some heuristics18:33
timeless_mbpand support for pluggable heuristics18:33
timeless_mbpbut that's definitely doable18:33
Stskeepsi wonder if powertop has something like that18:33
timeless_mbpRST38h and friends are actually capable of helping write those heurisitics18:33
timeless_mbpwhen they aren't busy being bulls in china shops18:34
timeless_mbpanyway, i'd love to see a proto for this18:34
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timeless_mbpand this is an area where Mer could get things going much sooner18:34
Stskeepswhat i really hate is that when i work on mer is that i find things i would much rather have had chosen as my thesis topic :P18:35
Stskeepsit seems like powertop exists for omap3, intruiging18:35
timeless_mbpanyway, for plugins, among other things, the browser should be able to conspire w/ such a meter to tell it how many plugin instances are open18:37
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Stskeepsyeah.. to help the understanding of the raw data18:37
timeless_mbpand technically the browser can stop individual instances, so w/ work it should be possible for a meter to let the user say "try stopping all of the plugins", or "resume this one"18:38
timeless_mbpbut the first step is for someone to make a basic impl18:38
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pupnikyou might like that station - chillout18:39
pupnikflag to lardman:18:39
lardmansorry, just got back from a meeting18:39
pupnikmake your girlfriend listen to it18:39
pupnikor streamrip for later - this set is damn good18:39
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i'll keep that in mind, - it's really one of those tools that would be great on mobile devices18:39
Stskeepsbecause nothing sucks more than a battery low message when you need it the rest of the day18:40
lardmanpupnik: cheers18:40
* timeless_mbp nods18:40
lardmanso, was the rx-51 released during my absence?18:41
* lardman crosses fingers & toes18:41
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Stskeepsor even heuristics ("this app is rapidly eating your cpu, i'll slow it a bit down")18:41
timeless_mbplardman: very funny18:41
Stskeeps(i don't believe in automatic actions when it comes to power management, though)18:41
timeless_mbpStskeeps: most of the heuristics should be more like18:42
Stskeepsas in, transparent ones18:42
timeless_mbp"did you know that this app was eating your cpu?" if no, did you want us to try penalizing it?18:42
timeless_mbpagain, automatic is the wrong answer18:42
timeless_mbpif the user wants to use the browser to do video conferencing, or audio streaming or to hear new mail indications18:43
Stskeeps"do you want to zap the developer"18:43
timeless_mbpyou can't automatically drop those18:43
lardmanyou could tell the user which app it is though18:43
timeless_mbplardman: that's what i'm proposing18:43
lardmanor have we already done that bit?18:43
timeless_mbpthe browser could probably help by offering a list of plugins and locations and when they were opened/closed18:43
timeless_mbpthat way if the user checks their battery and sees "wow, it's low, what happened"18:44
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timeless_mbpthe meter could say "well, you had 11 flash apps on [your start page] open"18:44
Stskeepsheh, i just spent half a year regarding that topic, but dealing with power saving and positioning18:44
timeless_mbpideally the user could eventually tell the meter to tell the browser "ok, i don't want using flash anymore"18:44
lardmanthat would be good, but we should go up another level and list processes which were open and for how long, cpu load, etc18:44
timeless_mbplardman: sure18:45
lardmanbut that should be something someone switches on rather than runs all the time18:45
timeless_mbpbut really, the place for this isn't breaking the browser18:45
timeless_mbpit's enhancing the battery meter18:45
timeless_mbphave it be the user who chooses if they care18:45
lcukthats reasonable, but there is a breakpoint where the logging and monitoring becomes enough of an issue to cause its own battery problems?18:45
timeless_mbpthen empower them18:45
lardmanyeah, or I think a general logging app (which can also tell you why desktop apps didn't start, look at dmesg output, etc.)18:46
Stskeepslcuk: sampling will be just as fine too18:46
Stskeepslike once in a while18:46
lardmanlcuk: you specifically enable logging when you know there's an issue18:46
timeless_mbplcuk: it should be possible to tune this so that it works18:46
lcukyeah agreed - its like the liqbase log - it knows every action taken and screen displayed (within the session)18:46
timeless_mbpand again, you're starting from state: user *is* concerned about battery and is *asking* *WHY*18:46
timeless_mbpthe user is therefore willing to pay a bit for that info18:47
Stskeepsthis tool should be as mandatory as a crash reporter :P18:47
lardmanyeah, where's X-Fade, I'm still interested in doing that crash reporting tool18:47
timeless_mbpStskeeps: right18:47
timeless_mbpbut again, it'll be much better if you guys implement it18:47
timeless_mbpyou can get it ready sooner18:48
timeless_mbpi'm sure i can get eero and others to help18:48
pupnikamazing price on that q5/q718:48
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lardmanneeds to hook into the launcher though, do we have the source for that as will be?18:48
lardmanpupnik: yeah, Q7 doesn't seem to be available yet though, GBAX didn't know when they'd be offering it anyway18:48
lcuklardman, can monitor process startup properly at lower level i believe18:49
* lcuk has always wanted something like sysinternals regmon/filemon type things but never found anything as simple of useful18:49
lardmanlcuk: kernel hooks are not what I really envisage, the launcher would be cleaner18:50
pupnikmaybe i can sell q7's to dentists18:50
pupnik  Zen FM - great lofi/groove/chillout set18:50
* pupnik is impressed18:50
* lardman has no speakers at work :(18:50
lcukbut what about when a launched application calls other processes18:50
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lardmanthe original app should report the error really18:51
lcukthe original app died cos there was a bug18:51
Stskeepsbbl dinner18:51
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* lcuk goes finishing up for the day, bbl18:53
* lardman too18:53
lardmanbbiab at home18:54
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timeless_mbplcuk: yeah, windows really does have better tools :)18:54
timeless_mbplcuk: so what are oyu guys doing w/ crash reporting?18:54
timeless_mbpcertainly if browser-daemon crashes, you want browser-ui to do the reporting18:54
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GAN800Can somebody poke jolouis about uploading his USB ethernet stuff to Extras?18:55
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timeless_mbpor if mail-dameon crashes, you want mail-ui to do the reporting18:55
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lcuktimeless_mbp, liqbase classic has had pretty much every crashable in its capabilities squashed, and if something crops up there is a full complete session log written18:57
lcukthe session log includes pretty much everything required to let me know where and what happened - logging is vital if i am to remotely diagnose and repair a problem18:57
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lcukusually reproduction of a crashable bug (lets say with book reader) is either directly noticable from the log, or with a copy of the book text attempted reading,, but either way without the log i would be blind18:58
* lcuk considers good logging to be another UI :)18:59
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lcuktimeless_mbp, the one thing i havent put in is automatic sending of reports and logs, its still down to the user to get it to me :)19:05
timeless_mbpi have to go19:06
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Macerstar trek is  apretty good movie19:07
Macergood old capt james t kirk all up in the night club getting his pimp on19:07
Macertrying to bang uhura19:08
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Bobbehey guys, I'm having some trouble having maemo mount my swap partition automatically. Shouldn't it be doing it after I included it in /etc/fstab?19:12
penguinbaitI have never been able to get swap to mount out of fstab19:13
z4chhsame o_o19:13
penguinbaitI always just create a startup script in /etc/rc2.d19:13
Bobbejust put swapon /dev/mmcblk0p4 in the script, or are there other commands?19:13
rmtHmm.. so, why does /dev/mmcblk0p2 have a different major/minor in initrd than in my root fs?19:13
rmtUsing bootmenu19:14
penguinbaitcommand is right, but script needs to be correct init format,19:14
Bobbeanywhere I can get an example? Have no idea how to write said script19:14
penguinbaityes look at some scripts in /etc/rc2.d ;)19:15
penguinbaitor do a search on google19:15
Bobbethx, just a sec19:15
Macerstar trek is awesome19:16
penguinbaitsimple init script19:16
pupniknice to see penguinbait again19:16
pupnikhope you're doing well19:16
Bobbeoh yeah19:16
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penguinbaityou too pupnik ;)19:16
Bobbepenguinbait, just saw this topic on itt like 'what the hell happened to penguinbait'19:17
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penguinbaitits been a while, but I am becomming more active again ;)19:17
Bobbekeep going strong man, there's hope ;)19:17
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penguinbaithe's gone mad19:17
Macerhahha! he's banging a green girl!19:17
penguinbaitswine flu19:17
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Bobbethis guy in itt suggests putting it in rcS. What is the difference between putting the command in rcS or in rc2.d?19:23
lbtBobbe: the rc dirs are used to control when things are started up19:25
lbtrc2.d is 'normal multiuser'19:26
lbtrcS is single user19:26
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Bobbebot both are run at boot time right?19:26
lbtyou pass through single user19:26
lbtthen multi19:27
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lbteg if you need a network to be up19:27
lbtyou make sure it goes after the network init19:27
BobbeI see19:27
Bobbethanks lbt19:27
penguinbaitI see no real benefit either way.  You really shouldnt be hitting much swap until after runlevel 2 is done19:27
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rmtOk.. after a few changes to, I seem to have a system booting from the mmc card. :)19:28
rmt420MB free. Woo. :)19:28
penguinbaitrmt, what your not booting off tape?19:29
rmtpenguinbait, I was until the rabbit ate it.19:30
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rmtBut I think this /dev/mmcblk* difference between initrd and the mmc card is a little odd..19:30
rmtMaybe I should swap them around in initrd..19:31
penguinbaitits normal, messed up but normal19:31
penguinbaitand somewhat annoying19:31
rmtWhy is it normal?19:31
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penguinbaitFanoush could better explain19:31
penguinbaitand I am sure he has if you go searching19:31
rmtudev does the assignment in the OS, maybe..19:34
penguinbaitcheck out19:34
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penguinbaitsounds like he fixed it, but it has not been incorporated into development19:35
Stskeepsrmt: grab a mer kernel and it's fixed19:36
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rmtStskeeps, bootmenu with mer kernel?19:39
Stskeepsrmt: yeah - mer kernel is just a maemo kernel with some goodie pathces19:39
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Stskeepsbut in bootmenu, you should use ${INT_CARDDÂ} and ${EXT_CARD} not mmcblk*19:40
Macerwell.. you can't go wrong with red matter19:40
rmtbootmenu does do that .. I just had to patch it to load ext319:40
rmtOnce done, it worked.19:41
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ShadowJKOn desktop I use nspluginproxy which runs flash in a separate process. Doesn't take the browser with it when flash crashes, and I can kill the process when I get fed up with flash eating a whole core :)19:54
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* lcuk returns19:58
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lcuksharks with laser beams19:59
thopiekaretrunko: PING19:59
GeneralAntillesCan somebody clear up whether GSM voice is a hardware or software issue?19:59
etrunkothopiekar: pong20:00
GeneralAntillesqole seems to think it's a software issue, but I don't really buy that.20:01
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately I'm not familiar enough with cellular hardware to know for sure either way.20:01
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GeneralAntillesI suspect there would be rather major issues if a device that wasn't certified for cellular voice began being used for it.20:02
GeneralAntillesandre__, ping?20:02
andre__GeneralAntilles, pong.20:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: honestly? both20:03
GeneralAntillesandre__, whiteboard tags?20:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: AT commands etc (sw) and voice lines in the hardware to relay sound20:03
andre__GeneralAntilles, yeah, but verb and object also welcome ;-)20:03
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, his assertion seems to be that combining the Maemo 5 device with oFono would result in the possibility of a software implementation of GSM voice.20:04
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GeneralAntillesandre__, how does GNOME do it?20:04
andre__with regard to what?20:04
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i don't recall the exact specs but honestly, if the gsm modem provides voice in/out and the kernel can access it, then yes20:04
GeneralAntillesWhat do they use the field for and how is it used.20:04
Stskeeps"if it's wired up"20:05
andre__ah. gnome uses the status whiteboard to add non-global keywords20:05
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, would a data modem necessarily provide that?20:05
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andre__like "aklapper[30]" or "evolution[vfolders]"20:05
Stskeepsevening jeremiah20:05
lbtfiferboy: hi20:05
GeneralAntillesandre__, so it sounds effectively like what I'm proposing.20:06
andre__it's not used for adding "remov" when the bug summary says "delet", if that's your underlying question :)20:06
GeneralAntillesThere's a specific format, though?20:06
andre__not really. just a namespace convention that must people probably don't know of :)20:06
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i kinda suspect nokia's going to surprise us, as it seems kinda half-assed not to use the inheritent properties of a hsdpa module20:06
andre__wouldn't call it specific. we decided that probably 5 years back20:06
jeremiahStskeeps: Hi Stskeeps!20:07
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I don't think it's going to be ready in the Fremantle timeframe, personally.20:07
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jeremiahI cant seem to find the docs describing editing web pages in the git SCM on garage20:07
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: sure, but maybe fremantle point 1 :)20:07
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I'm almost certain we'll see it with Harmattan20:08
GeneralAntillesI'm really doubtful about anything before then.20:08
Stskeepswas "Diablo" on the schedule ever btw?20:08
pupnikhah hah ... the pain .. .i can hardly read the text :)  lol20:08
Stskeepsjust wondering :P20:09
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, how do you mean?20:09
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, put the pages in the www folder.20:09
* andre__ trying to drag GeneralAntilles into a third conversation at the same time:20:10
andre__GeneralAntilles, so what are you effectively proposing for the status whiteboard?20:10
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: nm :P20:10
GeneralAntillesandre__, I can multitask. :P20:10
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GeneralAntillesandre__, I don't know, really. Mostly I'm just wondering if there's a good way we can start using it in's bugzilla.20:10
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GeneralAntillesI don't really have any strong opinions about what that might be, and am mostly looking for useful conventions we might be able to borrow from other bugzillas.20:11
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andre__GeneralAntilles, yeah, but what's the good usecase? it's a whiteboard, so you can use it for anything. but just using it for the sake of using it doesn't make sense :-D20:11
andre__ah, i see. well, compared to gnome bugzilla bugzilla is too small that i see a real usecase currently20:11
GeneralAntillesWell, I WAS thinking that it might be a good place to spam search improving tags.20:12
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andre__anybody can use it for his own tagging of course... but so far i didn't use it myself, because <5000 bugs is quite maintainable20:12
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GeneralAntillesWell, for people like you who are experienced with managing bugzillas. :P20:13
GeneralAntillesBut not everybody is quite as badass as yourself. :D20:13
* andre__ wonders if whiteboard entries are covered by normal queries at all20:13
GeneralAntillesBesides, it'd be good to have some inertia behind something for when we do get to that point.20:13
lardman~curse ARM asm20:13
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ARM asm !20:13
GeneralAntillesBugzilla could use a slightly more user-friendly quick search.20:14
andre__i think that namespaces can be very useful if it gets more complicated later on. however, something like "query[delet] query[remov]" looks a bit weird maybe20:14
GeneralAntillesFuzzier and more intelligent.20:14
andre__ :-P20:14
andre__oh yeah, i agree.20:15
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andre__but that would require word lists and mappings i guess20:15
GeneralAntillesIt's only OPEN bugs by default, though, right?20:15
GeneralAntillesSurely there must be somewhere those things can be borrowed from.20:15
andre__whoops. is a downstream thingy and gnome-specific. sorry20:15
andre__ was what i wanted to paste of course20:16
andre__there you can also choose the status of the bugs20:16
GeneralAntillesIt should be ALL by default.20:16
thopiekar_tabletetrunko: how is the status of the ubuntu repo for e1720:17
andre__GeneralAntilles, that should be easy to patch20:17
andre__please file a ticket so i don't forget :)20:17
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GeneralAntillesI hope the Apple Store decides to call today.20:18
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: what about the description of the repo?20:18
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, that, I do not know.20:18
jeremiahIts driving me crazy to see: Unnamed repository; edit this file to name it for gitweb.20:19
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RST38hmoo all20:20
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GeneralAntillesandre__, done, 453620:21
andre__cool, thanks!20:21
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GeneralAntillesWe're gonna need to figure out something to make the individual bug listing fit in 800px.20:23
crashanddietimeless: you should've gotten some kind of email by now :)20:24
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andre__GeneralAntilles, 800px? who wants that? :-)20:25
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GeneralAntillesandre__, those crazy bastards who triage in MIcroB. ;)20:25
andre__they really exist? i tried that a few times but gave up... takes too much time...20:26
* RST38h thinks it's kinda too late to care about that20:26
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GeneralAntillesandre__, sure, me.20:27
GeneralAntillesBesides, tablets are a use-case all of needs to target.20:27
Stskeeps800px or the sidebar included? ;p20:27
GeneralAntillesBugzilla is the one application that noticeably violated that on a frequent basis.20:28
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no sidebar.20:28
andre__uhm. triaging bugs on an N8x0 is masochistic IMO20:28
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andre__even *if* bugzilla would fit in 800px20:28
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Stskeepsandre__: tablet usage is all about masochism once in a while ;)20:29
fiferboylbt: Have you taken a look into hildon-pannable-area at all?20:29
andre__Stskeeps, doubletrue ;-)20:29
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RST38hGeneral: Perfect. Let us remove that damn sidebar RIGHT NOW20:29
GeneralAntillesRST38h, no.20:30
crashanddieReading slashdot comments on the tablet is the crown-jewel of masochism20:30
RST38hthen no 800px20:30
RST38hslashdot does not work well on microb20:30
GeneralAntillesandre__, whether or not that's a fact is immaterial.20:30
RST38htoo much js20:30
crashanddieRST38h: my point exactly ;)20:30
GeneralAntillesBesides, devices are only going to get faster.20:30
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GeneralAntillesTriaging aside, simply viewing bugs is less than optimal.20:31
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: tell that to the eee guys20:31
RST38hGeneral: the whole site is less than optimal on the tablet20:31
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes, we get it, you hate the sidebar.20:31
GeneralAntillesComplaint noted.20:31
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: there's another thing20:31
RST38hGeneral: that too, but the more material point is that there is no way you can have sidebar AND 800px20:32
GeneralAntillesandre__, really, the better question is: if it can be done without too much effort and without breaking things, why not?20:32
lbtfiferboy: I have now... I'm in the middle of qabstractscrollarea and friends at the moment20:32
GeneralAntillesRST38h, bugzilla doesn't have a sidebar and it doesn't fit in 800px.20:32
lbtgreat idea BTW :)20:32
GeneralAntillesRST38h, so your point is rather irrelevant to this discussion.20:32
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GeneralAntillesBesides, the vast majority of works just fine at 800px with a sidebar.20:33
andre__GeneralAntilles, as long as I get enough text of the summary, I'm fine :)20:33
andre__but this sounds like stuff that should go upstream20:33
fiferboyThanks.  I think I was just going to see what Maximum scroll they used, then it hit me that there is probably a lot more useful stuff in there20:33
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RST38hGeneral: yes, you can make it so that a page does not fit 800px WITHOUT sidebar20:33
RST38hSo what? :)20:33
* GeneralAntilles sighs20:33
crashanddieRST38h: tu pousses le bouchon un peu trop loin Maurice20:33
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'm going to go over here and attempt to be productive, OK?20:34
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RST38hGeneral: mmm...ok, try20:35
GeneralAntillesandre__, it's the Reporter and CC fields that are ruining it.20:35
GeneralAntillesandre__, and, actually the GNOME layout fits just fine in 800px20:36
andre__shouldn't that be very easy to solve with a greaseomnkey script?20:36
andre__oh. okay20:36
GeneralAntillesExcept for the front page which seems to have 1024px set for nodamnreason.20:36
andre__we must get rid of bug reporters!!!20:36
RST38handre: just export all bug data through SOAP and let every bug reporter write his own script to access and present it20:37
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infobotRST38h meant: andre: just export all bug data through SOAP and make every bug reporter write his own script to access and present it20:37
GeneralAntillesandre__, that's another issue entirely.20:37
GeneralAntillesAlso, why the hell is Mozilla's bugzilla so broken about line wrapping?20:38
andre__wasn't me20:38
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: it's not a bug, it's a feature20:38
GeneralAntillesDouble the wrapping, double the fun?20:39
crashanddieNope, paragraphing the lot20:39
lcukhahahaha GeneralAntilles if you were pissed at my photoshop skills, you are gonna be mega pissed at penguinbait20:39
crashanddieeach sentence: one paragraph20:39
GeneralAntillesandre__, is the bug layout chaning in 3.4?20:39
lcukpenguinbait, hats off sir :D20:39
crashanddielcuk: ?20:39
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crashanddiefuck me, I'm happy I never posted my picture on there20:40
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andre__GeneralAntilles, don't know exactly i must admit20:40
lcukim sure we could find pictures of you somewhere lol20:41
* andre__ working too much with 2.x systems or otherwise highly customized 3.x systems :-/20:41
crashanddielcuk: think again ;)20:41
crashanddielcuk: and you are not allowed to publish pictures I sent to you only20:41
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GeneralAntillesAw, bitch, Ringo?20:42
lcukyou didnt, they are on youtube lol20:42
Stskeepslcuk: the star trek fleet one is kinda cool :>20:42
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GeneralAntillesSeriously, fuck penguinbait.20:42
crashanddielcuk: there's no picture of me on youtube!20:42
lcukyeah Stskeeps he actually looks at home there20:42
Stskeepslcuk: there's some page to vulcanize people..20:43
GeneralAntillesBetter be careful or I might get disgruntled and shoot up the place. ;)20:43
andre__hell. today i learned another reason to always use an avatar out there and not a real pic :-P20:43
RST38hhave you got a phaser, General?20:43
Stskeepsi think it's fantastic the mer logo gets cropped to "me" on iTT.20:44
crashanddieandre__: just don't bother uploading anything, so much easier :)20:44
crashanddieStskeeps: "I got ME on my n810"20:44
lcuklol RST38h20:45
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GeneralAntillesandre__, do you have a preference about the bug layout?20:46
jeremiahSgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club band, we hope you will enjoy the show.20:46
GeneralAntillesThe GNOME one seems nice and clean. Perhaps worth porting at some point?20:47
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GeneralAntillesandre__, about the cool nick. Didn't freejazz think up an exciting name for you? ;)20:50
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lbthello debernardis_20:51
debernardis_hello lbt :)20:51
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CutMeOwnThroatis it my imagination, or does using the N810 as an mp3 player kill the battery rather fast20:52
lbtCutMeOwnThroat: turn the volume down20:53
andre__GeneralAntilles, oh yeah. darn, what was it?20:53
* andre__ diving into his hatemail20:53
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CutMeOwnThroatlbt, headphones should use less than the speakers though (which was what I used)?20:53
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debernardis_cutmeownthroat: not in my experience - can listen music for hours. Rogue processes instead kill it fast20:54
andre__GeneralAntilles, "klaptrap"? or which one? i can't read all that mail now, i have to work ;-))20:54
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Stskeepsklaptrap is kinda neat :>20:54
CutMeOwnThroatdebernardis_, define "rogue"20:54
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GeneralAntillesandre__, klaptrap is good.20:55
debernardis_cutmeounthroat: something left by a closed app - eating up your cpu cycles!20:56
CutMeOwnThroatok... you mean rogue == trying to use 100% CPU20:56
andre__GeneralAntilles, now are there any sexual, racist, facist, non-pc, whatever meanings in US slang that i'm not aware of, you powerful man with a mothertongue? ;-)20:57
andre__(happened way too often when talking to a female friend in english that i was asked "you know the meaning of what you just said?")20:57
debernardis_yes - something that eats up your cpu and battery while your tablet is in your pocket (and btw makes it real hot)20:57
lcukshould an <li> tag have a closing branch?20:58
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lcukdebernardis_, :D thanks20:59
lcuknow i know how to check other things20:59
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GeneralAntillesandre__, there's also "the clap" but that's a c.20:59
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debernardis_lcuk %^)20:59
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andre__GeneralAntilles, yeah, but there's a second definition at urbandictionary that i definitely dislike :)21:01
GeneralAntilleswith a c. :P21:01
CutMeOwnThroatoh, maemo as a whole is non-free... I should't have been surprised21:01
GeneralAntillesBesides, that makes it exciting. :D21:01
StskeepsCutMeOwnThroat: 80-20% :P21:02
pupnik  listen to this track - ripped form zenfm - please help identify21:02
crashanddieandre__: did you just say you didn't have a mothertongue?21:02
crashanddieandre__: you weren't taught an initial language?21:03
crashanddieCold man.21:03
CutMeOwnThroatStskeeps, I was wondering if I could put it in an qemu image and then (I think there's a build environment) use that to compile debian packages, so I don't have to have a full debian chroot around... now I wonder if I'm even allowed to do that :)21:04
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debernardis_pupnik: Evolution - Water21:04
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StskeepsCutMeOwnThroat: yeah, well, that's the problem of mer..21:04
Stskeepser. maemo.21:04
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pupnikdebernardis_: that is the song track!?!?21:05
torkianohello, I have problems with my autotools configuration in maemo: I get this error:21:05
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StskeepsCutMeOwnThroat: :)21:05
crashanddietorkiano: amazing error21:05
torkianocp: cannot stat `INSTALL': No such file or directory21:05
torkianoautomake-1.9: cannot open < gnome-doc-utils.make: No such file or directory21:05
debernardis_pupnik: identified by Shazam Id (/me has never listened that before)21:05
crashanddietorkiano: make sure you uncompressed everything21:05
pupnikamazing!  thanks! thanks! thanks!21:06
crashanddietorkiano: and make sure you're in the right directory21:06
debernardis_pupnik :-)21:06
GeneralAntillespupnik, there's some web app out there that'll do that for you.21:06
timeless_mbpfwiw, slashdot doesn't work well w/ n81 8gb either21:07
timeless_mbp(nokia "open browser")21:07
crashanddietimeless_mbp: did you get the email?21:07
GeneralAntilles /. is AJAX hell21:07
pupniki am so happy thanks21:07
fiferboylbt: If I have a combobox with enough items to need a scroolbar, neither finger scrolling or the scrollbar works21:07
GeneralAntillespupnik, google IEatBrainz21:07
pupnik? ok21:08
debernardis_general: thanks21:08
pupniktrying to find the cd21:08
crashanddiethat song sounds like shit21:08
pupnik"evolution - water" is a terrible song title for google21:08
CutMeOwnThroatStskeeps, guess I'd get rid of it for that... but I think it'll take ages to get all hardware to work including the powersaving stuff21:08
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: which email?21:08
crashanddietimeless_mbp: the one from Stephane A?21:08
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: i'm trying to go back in scrollback and read your comments about bugzilla, but my irc client isn't cooperating21:08
debernardis_pupnik: evolution is the title - water is the author21:08
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: i don't think so21:08
timeless_mbpoh, yes21:09
timeless_mbpbut i was staring at in:span instead of in:inbox21:09
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I want the bug layout to fit 800px so it doesn't scroll on the tablets.21:09
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, also: find a way to use Status whiteboard usefully.21:09
andre__crashanddie, i just stated that GA has one. it does not imply that i don't have one ;-)21:09
CutMeOwnThroatStskeeps, I wouldn't mind that it's non-free if I could do all the things that I could do with it if it's free.... hehe... but I guess if I could it wouldn't be non-free :-P21:09
torkianocrashanddie, my application compiles without problems in Ubuntu and I porting it to maemo21:09
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: ok, thanks for poking me, i'll reply now, it sounds doable21:09
crashanddieandre__: actually, it does ;)21:10
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I had someone poking me asking if you were getting cold feet, lol21:10
andre__crashanddie, your logic is borken ;-)21:10
crashanddieandre__: as is your spellchecker21:10
pupnikfound it
GeneralAntillesandre__, no, really, he's right' :P21:11
pupnikhuge props to debernardis_21:11
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: he implied that you were a powerful man because you had a mothertongue21:11
crashanddie"please enlighten me with your knowledge, oh powerful man with a mothertongue"21:12
crashanddie(slightly rephrased)21:12
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, clearly I am a powerful man, although having a mothertongue is the least of my many wonderful attributes. :P21:12
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: talk to the clit21:12
* timeless_mbp pokes gmail a few times in order to reply to make crashanddie happy21:12
andre__...and a funny one with lots of nice words. e.g. i never know how to translate "drive-by-shooting" to another language ;-))21:12
thuxis it known who was lead designer or something in charge of maemo? who decide tablets software, who made maemo?21:12
Stskeepsthux: it was forged in the fires of valhalla21:13
GeneralAntillesthux, Ari Jaaksi21:13
Stskeepsclose enough21:13
RST38hGeneral: Sure about it?21:13
GeneralAntillesWell, he's VP of Maemo SW21:13
GeneralAntillesThere aint really anybody else that fits that bill closely enough.21:13
RST38hWhat about guys who designed the original 77x0 software?21:14
GeneralAntillesHildon != Maemo21:14
thuxi thought it was possible kate but good that wasn't21:14
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: ok, replied. thanks for poking21:15
crashanddiethux: some say he appears on high-value stamps in finland. Some say he naturally faces the magnetic north. Some say for some reason he's allergic to French people (sorry dneary)21:15
pupnik75 fucking euros for the cd on  debernardis_
timeless_mbpthux: as far as we understand, hardware choices are beyond the control of anyone who is remotely visible from Maemo Software21:16
timeless_mbpand in fact, most of us working in Maemo Software don't have any access or ability to remotely influence anything hardware related (unfortunately)21:16
lcuk:O :O >>> Ferrari have confirmed their intention to pull out of Formula One from next season as the battle over the FIA's proposed new rules escalates. << :O :O21:16
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GeneralAntillesFormula 1 is such a joke these days21:17
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GeneralAntillesI say they should remove most of the rules.21:17
GeneralAntillesEach car should cost at least 500 million dollars.21:17
lcuki like the boost button they added (H) ive had one for ages on playstation, happy to see them finally catching up with reality21:17
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: probably after a bunch of fistfights between ui designers and hw engineers :P21:17
timeless_mbpwrt software, Ari is the public face who i suppose runs the group, but software decisions are of course proposed by people under him21:18
timeless_mbpsome of those people are theoretically visible21:18
timeless_mbphowever it seems that there's a new group doing a lot of the proposals21:18
timeless_mbpe.g. the guy talking to me now in this UI Brief21:18
StskeepsThe Next Generation?21:18
timeless_mbpi'd never encountered him before21:18
timeless_mbpthey sadly have no public presence21:18
debernardis_pupnik you're kidding :-)21:19
timeless_mbpbut in 5 years, we can try to give you a face so you can flame them21:19
CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles, is there a price limit on formula 1 cars? :)21:19
CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles, that would actually be pretty cool21:19
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debernardis_pupnik it's on the soulseek network - just search with nicotine plus!21:19
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GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, "build whatever you want as long as it costs less than 5 mil"21:19
GeneralAntillesThat would be much more creative.21:20
CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles, "building costs for the car may not exceed $100000"21:20
GeneralAntillesHow much R&D money factors into that cost would be important, though.21:20
CutMeOwnThroatthat would be excluded21:20
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CutMeOwnThroatimpossible to factor in21:21
toggles_wanyone know how to get maemo-pan working on the n810??21:21
CutMeOwnThroatstill, would be fun - perhaps make that $30000 or so21:21
crashanddieI'm probably stating the obvious here guys, but you do realise you don't get a budget before you have a project, right?21:21
thuxGeneralAntilles: what is good race serie then, indy nascar?21:21
* timeless_mbp crucifies the current presenter (Again)21:21
crashanddietimeless_mbp: pm21:22
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, too many people without public faces is a rather obnoxious problem with Maemo.21:22
GeneralAntillesthux, I love A/LMS21:22
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GeneralAntillesWRC is consistently pretty good.21:22
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: heh, and on the contrary, i'm deadly afraid noone will take me seriously after meeting me irl ;)21:22
GeneralAntillesThe GT3 and Touring Car series are also bundles of fun21:22
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, just don't wear those slotted glasses of yours. :P21:23
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: it's a problem for us too!21:24
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I'm really bored with doing everything through Quim.21:24
GeneralAntillesI mean, Quim's a great guy and all but playing telephone back and forth wears thin rather quickly.21:24
Stskeepswell, we have daniel too nowadays21:24
Stskeepswe should use him more i guess?21:24
GeneralAntillesWell, we only use Quim because he's the only person answering the goddamn questions. . . .21:25
RST38hThere is also another guy in Maemo forums21:25
GeneralAntillesDaniel's welcome to step in, but I doubt he's established enough there to feel comfortable running interference.21:26
GeneralAntillesRST38h, Quim's boss, he's a bit high up to be getting down and dirty in Bugzilla.21:26
timeless_mbpthere's also a peter21:26
timeless_mbpbut none of them are really bugzilla people21:26
timeless_mbpgetting engineers into bugzilla is a challenge21:26
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timeless_mbpbut given that *i* an *engineer* here don't have visibility to some parts of the UI team21:26
timeless_mbpi couldn't even find the right person to invite in some cases21:27
GeneralAntillesThank god for people like Eero and timeless. ;)21:27
timeless_mbpnote that you stilly have roope21:27
timeless_mbpwho is still involved in ui21:27
Stskeepsyeah, true21:27
timeless_mbpthere's also at times one or two people from mail21:28
timeless_mbpand i think one or two people from chat/rtcom21:28
GeneralAntillesThe Modest screencast is really rockin'. If everything else turns out in that slickness ballpark I think Fremantle is going to be pretty good.21:28
Stskeepsthere's also a bunch of contractors in here21:28
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timeless_mbpthere's also someone from GnuPNP or whatever which is basically multimedia21:29
timeless_mbpand people from Bluetooth21:29
crashanddiemodest screencast?21:29
GeneralAntillesICD people pop in21:29
timeless_mbpwe're not quite as bad as it seems21:29
penguinbaitOCD people21:29
timeless_mbpbut indeed the UI team hides too much21:29
GeneralAntillesPatrik, etc.21:29
timeless_mbpbtw, he's like me21:29
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: link to screencast?21:29
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, Yerga stuck it on YouTube.21:29
timeless_mbphe yells at people internally21:30
GeneralAntillesHang on21:30
timeless_mbpexcept, he doesn't get in trouble for doing it, and gets better results21:30
GeneralAntillesArs linked it from their beta SDK article, too.21:30
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, may have something to do with that (what's the bug number?) bug. :D21:30
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GeneralAntillesAh, right, 2383:
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VDVsx_GeneralAntilles, the modest l&F is already available in last SDK updates, everything is more shiny now :P21:34
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: oh my21:34
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: ooh, that's fixed?21:35
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, it doesn't get mentioned enough, but please do mention how much the community (particularly the council if anybody cares ;)) appreciates the public participation. :)21:35
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: um21:36
timeless_mbptimeless timeless - Nokia 93021:36
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timeless_mbpthe - is still there21:36
timeless_mbpam i waiting for an upgrade?21:36
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, not at this point21:36
GeneralAntillesFeel free to REOPEN21:36
timeless_mbpreopen or new bug?21:37
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, up to you, I guess.21:37
timeless_mbpdoes anyone know it was "fixed"?21:37
GeneralAntillesIt may have changed again with the Newstyle profile update21:38
GeneralAntillesI don't recall, honestly.21:38
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: Bug 4537 has been added to the database21:41
* Stskeeps sits down and begins the boring task of making cph meeting presentation.21:42
GeneralAntilles"Hi, my name is Carsten, and this is Mer"21:42
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penguinbaitHi Carsten!21:48
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penguinbaitMy names penguinbait and I'm and alcoholic21:49
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CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles,  is it? I thought Ryan21:58
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GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, I'm quoting Stskeeps making his Mer presentation.22:00
CutMeOwnThroatwasn't aware HE had nearly the same name22:01
CutMeOwnThroator I22:01
Stskeepsyeah, i'm a c22:01
CutMeOwnThroatthere's a guy here that has the nick karsten22:02
CutMeOwnThroatnow that's irritating22:02
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GeneralAntillesguenther is Karsten.22:04
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GeneralAntillesGot a lot of you bastards, I guess.22:04
CutMeOwnThroatI always thought it was a rare name22:06
* timeless_mbp pokes crashanddie_ 22:07
CutMeOwnThroatwhen I went to school, there were up to 3 Daniels  in my class22:07
CutMeOwnThroat(which I guess is handy for a teacher)22:07
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timeless_mbpCutMeOwnThroat: i had that problem in elementary school :)22:08
timeless_mbpand of course, the collision resolution sucks22:08
timeless_mbpDaniel => Danny => Dan22:08
timeless_mbpon average each person responds to all 322:08
VDVsxCutMeOwnThroat, my high school class had 7 Ana's :P22:08
CutMeOwnThroattimeless_mbp, type of thing is language dependent, though22:09
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CutMeOwnThroatVDVsx, ANA, PAY ATTENTION!22:14
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VDVsxCutMeOwnThroat,lol, the teachers had to use always two names when they needed to claim the attention of one of the seven Ana's :)22:17
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VDVsxlucly two of them have the same second name, very funny :)22:18
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, we had a lot of Ryans in my friend group in school so we went with Ryansub0, Ryansub1, etc. ;)22:28
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penguinbaitpeace and penguins22:44
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lcukhi VDVsx \o22:47
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VDVsxhello lcuk22:48
lcukare you doin much with bluemaemo at the moment or is it in hibernation22:48
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GeneralAntillesDid we ever get freakin' HID?22:51
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lcukVDVsx, im asking because ive got an n800 here that would be really good to use with my n810 :)22:52
lcuk(that is if BM is available for os200722:53
lcukits lying almost unused at the moment22:53
rm_youlcuk: ?22:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, install a real OS on it.22:53
lcuklong story short: wont flash22:53
rm_youlcuk: why is your n800 using os2007? >_>22:53
rm_youlcuk: fix it22:53
lcuklong story short (1): the brains in the chan tried and nothing we could do could do it22:53
lcukhiya rm :)22:54
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rm_yousup :)22:54
GeneralAntillesyeah, hi, rm_you.22:54
lcukim smiling :)22:54
rm_youlcuk: can you plug it in to a linux device? :P22:54
lcukrm_you, x41 runs ubuntu22:54
rm_youlcuk: and give me a shell account with root access and your IP? :P22:54
GeneralAntilleslcuk, flash the kernel and initfs from fiasco-flasher and boot Mer?22:54
lcuksure :)22:54
rm_youlcuk: :P22:55
rm_youi forget, you going to denmark?22:55
* rm_you checks the site22:55
lcukrm_you, i checked everything on the usb and nothing shows at flash time, it just sits there with the damned spanner22:55
GeneralAntilleslcuk, try a different cable?22:55
lcukbut then in the desktop it shows on the usb22:55
lcuksame cable22:55
rm_youlcuk: let me at it22:55
GeneralAntillesAlso, flash from Linux.22:55
lcukok ill bring it22:56
lcuk:) thanks22:56
rm_youjust let me at it NOW in linux :P22:56
rm_youi don't need to be there22:56
rm_youthat's what ssh is for :P22:56
lcuklol i was joking22:56
rm_youi wasn't :P22:56
rm_youstill aren't :P22:56
* lcuk slaps u with a very shaky binary playtest22:56
VDVsxlcuk, I will hack a bit on BM in the weekend, port it to fremantle/mer probably, now I have to work in my thesis :(22:57
lcukdont worry VDVsx22:57
rm_youwell it is about time for me to fixxify my server anyway22:57
VDVsxlcuk, but what you specifically want/need ?22:57
lcuknothing specific22:57
lcukjust poking you cos i know some people wanted additional stuff22:58
rm_youhrm i was gonna do a backup of the important stuff on my root drive, but... well, as i just recovered from a HD crash and had to image the dying drive to my raid... i guess i have a full backup :P22:58
rm_youso... time to reinstall :P22:58
lcuk /tmp is limited to a tiny amount isnt it22:58
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VDVsxlcuk, tell them to submit features requests :P22:59
lcuki saw GeneralAntilles submit one to you a minute ago :P23:00
lcukand you dont wanna piss him off, not with his star trek/beatles fetishes going on, he will come at you with a yellow submarine and attack with photon torpedoes23:00
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, proton torpedoes.23:05
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, what is your problem with HID ?23:05
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, did we get HID or is it still serial-only?23:06
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lcukGeneralAntilles, you did not flunk star fleet, those proton things were a long time ago and very far away.23:07
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, bluemaemo always used HID protocol, dunno want you mean about serial23:07
lcuknowadays you use photons23:07
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, I recall something about it not being compatible with OS X because of serial or somesuch.23:07
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, it only work for some MAC OS users, I don't have a mac to test, apple likes to do some changes to standard protocols :) (and also I can miss something in my specification)23:11
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VDVsxMac instructions here:
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VDVsxlcuk, you probably can use BM in os2007, since canola is there, all the UI deps should be satisfied, dunno which bluez version os2007 have23:16
lcukcool, next time i drag it out ill have a look and let you know23:16
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VDVsxlcuk, thanks :)23:19
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VDVsx    <------ anyone can confirm a bug in the comments layout ?23:27
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* GAN800 wonders if he'll hear from Apple tomorrow.23:51
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keesjVDVsx: what kind of bug , looks kinda good to me23:55
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