IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-04-29

GeneralAntilles	The a, however, is an absolute requirement, johnx. :P	00:00
X-Fade	Heh web 2.0 branding ;)	00:00
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johnx	GeneralAntilles, I was just helping confused google searchers find the IRC logs :)	00:00
GeneralAntilles	We should start planning for a maemo.org April Fool's now. ;)	00:00
qgil	johnx: actually this is a good idea - someone could spread the rumor that the HIG is a leak of internal information, so all developers will look at them :)	00:00
lbt	hey X-Fade : https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Albt%3AFremantle%3ABeta	00:01
GeneralAntilles	Ha!	00:02
qgil	they will be nicer when they are full of screenshots and graphical examples, though	00:02
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qgil	lbt: what does that link mean, asks this tired brain today	00:02
GeneralAntilles	I really want a maemo.org cloak	00:02
johnx	qgil, I'll leak it to engadget whenever you give the word :>	00:02
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, Freenode hasn't contacted you yet, have they?	00:02
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Nope, black hole.	00:02
GeneralAntilles	Bleh	00:02
lbt	qgil: it's the OBS upload of Fremantle free stuff - not started a compile yet	00:02
X-Fade	lbt: Something for me to look at tomorrow.	00:02
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lbt	but Stskeeps just pulled some into Mer... we'll have it out there RSN ;)	00:02
X-Fade	I haven't been able to update the autobuilder yet, because I haven't been able to get the nokia-binaries repo yet ;)	00:03
qgil	lbt: and this is useful for...	00:03
X-Fade	So that is also something for tomorrow ;)	00:03
lbt	OBS or the Fremantle upload?	00:03
qgil	the Fremantle upload	00:03
lbt	Stskeeps has already used the Fremantle libhildon in Mer	00:03
lbt	about 10 mins ago	00:03
Stskeeps	nah, 5 hours ago :P	00:04
lbt	yeah 5 mins was : copied Fremantle:Beta osso-af-utils to Maemo:Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon	00:04
Stskeeps	;)	00:04
qgil	lbt: ah ok, so you compile those sources for Mer?	00:04
lbt	yes	00:04
Stskeeps	qgil: we're also experimenting with OBS and Maemo as it is, i think :)	00:05
lbt	and if we find any build/compile issues we can feed them back	00:05
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qgil	cool, thanks	00:05
lbt	eg hardcoded scratchbox	00:05
lbt	bad build-depends	00:05
X-Fade	lbt: Next step is to fix these bugs yourself in the git repo :D	00:05
lbt	that kind of thing.... OBS builds from raw disk up every time...	00:05
qgil	last words before I go to sleep: lbt tomorrow I will look to the queue of sponsorship requests to the Danish Weekend	00:06
qgil	I hope you get more Mer contributors there!	00:06
Stskeeps	X-Fade: next step is the large amount of patches to send in :P	00:06
lbt	gosh, a public git repo... great idea	00:06
qgil	it should be one of the main concrete and tangible support action we do for the Mer project	00:06
lbt	qgil: thanks - appreciated	00:06
X-Fade	lbt: Hildon and modest are now in public git, so start there ;)	00:06
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Stskeeps	nod and we're grateful, - it's just difficult to get people to show up sometimes :)	00:06
X-Fade	qemu also got bit improvements in this beta btw.	00:07
lbt	X-Fade: I'm nagging GnutOnMobile to include my fingerscrolling for Fremantle	00:07
X-Fade	*big	00:07
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qgil	the Ui guy, what's his name...	00:07
lcuk	wazd	00:07
Stskeeps	he can't leave russia	00:07
qgil	that one, is he coming?	00:07
Stskeeps	else i'm sure he would :P	00:07
lcuk	vlads friend	00:07
Stskeeps	(military stuff..)	00:07
lcuk	he has problems bigger than vlads	00:07
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qgil	Stskeeps: ahm	00:07
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lcuk	webcast him	00:08
qgil	and that long list of "Thanks to" in your releases?	00:08
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Stskeeps	people making big or small contributions - we do have a fair bit of people and i've advertised a lot	00:08
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GeneralAntilles	We're sending lardman to talk qwerty12's parents into letting him out of the house. ;0	00:09
GeneralAntilles	s/0/)/	00:09
lcuk	hahah	00:09
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infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: We're sending lardman to talk qwerty12's parents into letting him out of the house. ;)	00:09
lbt	What about ScriptRipper?	00:09
qgil	anyway, I won't insist more - there is a budget and will be spent	00:09
zap	Anyone here kind enough to share the latest initrd.jffs2 with bootmenu installed? :)	00:09
Stskeeps	lbt: think he should just apply and let's see what happens	00:09
Stskeeps	bbl	00:09
lbt	l8r	00:10
* Stskeeps needs sleep before linear algebra classes :(		00:10
X-Fade	gtssyat.	00:10
qgil	me too, without the algebra	00:10
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lcuk	gnite qgil \o	00:10
qgil	good night!	00:10
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ScriptRipper	qgil good night	00:11
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lcuk	shout louder ScriptRipper lol	00:11
ScriptRipper	lcuk i was too latew	00:11
lbt	ScriptRipper: you applied for Danish weekend at all?	00:12
lbt	I owe you a beer (or...) at least!	00:12
johnx	at this point I think I might possibly be able to attend. need to get a request in before qgil looks at them tomorrow :>	00:13
ScriptRipper	lbt: not yet	00:14
ScriptRipper	lbt: what must i do?	00:14
lbt	looking	00:15
lbt	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Hackfest_Copenhagen_09	00:15
lbt	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend	00:15
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timeless_mbp	X-Fade: ping	00:19
Stskeeps	for mer follow instructions in http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=278371&postcount=7	00:19
timeless_mbp	why is wiki.maemo.org sporting beta-free branding while maemo.org sports a beta?	00:19
LiraNuna	I got an N810 WiMAX \o/	00:19
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timeless_mbp	LiraNuna: wow, where, how, how much?	00:20
keesj	LiraNuna: give it to me now!	00:20
LiraNuna	:D	00:20
LiraNuna	it's from some shop	00:20
LiraNuna	took shitload of time to deliver	00:20
timeless_mbp	how much did you pay?	00:20
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LiraNuna	450$	00:20
keesj	hmm	00:21
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LiraNuna	http://www.cell2get.com/ < I'm warning, if you DO want it, it'll take a lot of time to delive	00:21
ShadowJK	erk :)	00:21
LiraNuna	I bought this april 2nd	00:21
LiraNuna	I got it now	00:21
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xnt	konichiwa everyone!	00:21
* xnt clicks		00:21
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ShadowJK	seems like a high premium for wimax :)	00:21
timeless_mbp	LiraNuna: who's offering wimax near you and what's the cost for the data plan?	00:22
LiraNuna	timeless, I'm in SF, it'll have wimax in the ner future	00:22
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LiraNuna	I got WiMAX to future proof it	00:23
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keesj	amterdam has wimax now but I did not try it yet	00:23
ShadowJK	heh	00:23
xnt	liranuna: :(	00:23
* xnt wants wimax		00:23
xnt	in his area	00:23
xnt	nyc	00:23
xnt	* new city	00:23
xnt	:P	00:23
ShadowJK	there's wimax where I live, but not mobile wimax and not on n810W's frequency band :)	00:24
johnx	same here :/	00:24
xnt	ham radio license + backyard radio tower/repeater + n180 = free wimax! :)	00:25
keesj	are there different wimaxes bugger	00:26
ShadowJK	Amusingly I pay less for unmetered 2mbit/s 3G/Edge than I pay for non-mobile wimax :)	00:26
LiraNuna	damn the black color is just so sexy	00:26
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: how many different wimax bands are there??	00:29
GeneralAntilles	Lots	00:29
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, this has some numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deployed_WiMAX_networks	00:30
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* timeless_mbp boggles @ 802.16 d v. e		00:31
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, did you file a bug about the wiki?	00:33
timeless_mbp	no	00:33
timeless_mbp	i'm about to go home	00:33
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GeneralAntilles	OK, I'll do that.	00:33
timeless_mbp	please file	00:33
timeless_mbp	i wouldn't even know which is right/wrong :)	00:33
timeless_mbp	besides, sp3000 pointed to the non beta thing :) -- but he left for home already	00:33
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LiraNuna	skype can do video right?	00:39
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johnx	LiraNuna, not on the tablets	00:43
till-	not on nit	00:43
LiraNuna	crap	00:44
LiraNuna	it has a cam ;(	00:44
johnx	yup, but skype won't support it	00:45
johnx	gizmo video works pretty well	00:45
LiraNuna	oh	00:45
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johnx	rm_you\|, hey :D	00:45
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johnx	LiraNuna, skype's video codec is really heavy and they don't feel like optimizing it, it seems	00:46
LiraNuna	haha	00:46
lcuk	is it possible to ssh directly into a scratchbox session or do i need to login after connecting?	00:46
till-	very green on my n800	00:46
till-	@gizmo	00:46
lbt	lcuk: is your scratchbox running sshd?	00:46
rm_you\|	'lo johnx	00:46
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lcuk	dunno lbt, assume no right now	00:47
rm_you\|	lcuk is scratchboxing? roflcopter	00:47
johnx	lcuk, you should use screen :)	00:47
lcuk	dont confuse me even more :\|	00:47
lcuk	the laptop will be up and down lol	00:47
lbt	actually _dl9pf_ just ran OBS on an N810... worked first time	00:48
* rm_you\| whips out his roflcopter and flies around		00:48
lcuk	rm_you, http://liqbase.net/fingerfriendly.jpg	00:48
rm_you\|	ooo	00:48
rm_you\|	so what is that supposed to be>	00:48
rm_you\|	?	00:48
rm_you\|	oh	00:48
rm_you\|	ack!	00:48
lcuk	bet you cant guess how or where that happened	00:48
rm_you\|	n800ing? :P	00:48
lbt	he bit his fingernails	00:49
lcuk	heh	00:49
rm_you\|	typing too vigerously on the virtual keyboard?	00:49
lbt	accidentally got bacon-fat on his finger	00:49
ShadowJK	lcuk: file a "need pressure calibration for x11 click threshold" bug? include that grid with blackhole you get if you draw with uniform pressure across the screen?	00:49
lcuk	heh once it stops hurting and i can type properly again im, thin,ing of adding a stylus	00:49
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lcuk	ShadowJK, why should i file a bug, i use pressure sensitive reading anyway and dont notice	00:50
ShadowJK	oh	00:50
johnx	jeez. was that seriously from tablet use? O_o;	00:50
lcuk	its only in gtk/x11 stuff that the threshhold is wrong	00:50
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lcuk	heh johnx, it was a nokia ovi	00:51
johnx	aaah	00:51
johnx	gotcha	00:51
johnx	wait, is that your finger or not?	00:51
lcuk	yes	00:51
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lcuk	i cant drive or move most of my hand	00:51
wazd	so, hows the new SDK?)	00:51
johnx	well, hope that heals up quick lcuk.	00:52
johnx	I'm off for now	00:52
lcuk	so dp i	00:52
lcuk	o	00:52
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ShadowJK	Rst38h should file it then :)	00:52
lcuk	since he noticed it	00:52
lcuk	tho the way quim said it was tested	00:53
lcuk	ie there was a bug filed already	00:53
lcuk	lbt, can i just install sshd into scratchbox then?	00:53
lbt	you _can_	00:53
lcuk	and does scratchbox have its own ip?	00:53
lbt	dunno about should	00:53
lbt	no	00:54
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lcuk	ok, so if i use normal ssh on the lappy	00:54
lbt	it'll conflict if you already run sshd	00:54
johnx	yup	00:54
ShadowJK	it would be awesome if you could calibrate sensitive are of screen to be as insensitive as the least sensitive are of the screen, so that it takes equal pressure across entire screen to register as click	00:54
lcuk	can i run a script on login	00:54
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johnx	you should be able to	00:54
lcuk	ShadowJK, give the tablet a pair of glasses	00:54
johnx	ah, you mean when you login to ssh?	00:54
lcuk	yeah	00:54
ShadowJK	what does glasses for tablet do...	00:55
timeless_mbp	lcuk: ssh -t host scratchbox	00:55
lbt	what do you want to do lcuk?	00:55
timeless_mbp	you can simplify that w/ a script 'scratchbox' on the host :)	00:55
lbt	simply be in sb when you login?	00:55
johnx	I think having a script that runs at login all the time, might potentially cause problems	00:56
lcuk	heh yeah	00:56
lbt	wot johnx said	00:56
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lcuk	timeless, thanks	00:56
timeless_mbp	note that you can run sshd on an alternate port, but it's really not worth it	00:56
locutus	if its on a internal lan, add a iface for the scratchbox to have its sshd on?	00:56
johnx	you should really just use screen. it's pretty simple	00:56
lcuk	no agreed, just confuses an already confusing situation	00:56
lcuk	its not johnx	00:57
locutus	(alias that is)	00:57
timeless_mbp	you can get clever w/ a .ssh/config file which offers 'scratchbox' and commands and stuff	00:57
lcuk	the laptop goes up and down	00:57
timeless_mbp	but yeah, personally, i'd probably use screen	00:57
timeless_mbp	in fact, i'm pretty sure that's what i actually do use :)	00:57
lcuk	personally i'd use native building but with only an sdk its a bit hard	00:58
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* lcuk understands simple direct on the metal working		00:58
* johnx understands the limitations of that :)		00:59
johnx	painfully understands ...	00:59
lcuk	yeah but its not a problem for the stuffs i wanna build	00:59
johnx	yeah, to each his own	00:59
lcuk	heh	00:59
johnx	but screen would still help you	00:59
johnx	screen = best thing since sliced bread	01:00
rm_you\|	sliced bacon? :P	01:00
lcuk	mmmmmm	01:00
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VDVsx_	lcuk, I know you like my crappy screencasts, so here another one: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?p=225	01:08
VDVsx_	:P	01:08
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VDVsx_	special attention to the icon colors around 1:15 :P	01:09
GeneralAntilles	Woo! Crappy screencasts!	01:10
* johnx likes the mer app menus better :>		01:10
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GeneralAntilles	VDVsx_, is Modest in there?	01:12
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, no	01:12
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* timeless_mbp notes that some of the things VDVsx is showing off are not the way they will be in final		01:12
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GeneralAntilles	Nokia really needs to invest some time in helping their artwork team figure out that the screen resolution is 800x480	01:13
johnx	s/:>/than the current beta/	01:13
GeneralAntilles	Scaled up desktop images are just plain amateur.	01:13
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: eh?	01:13
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GeneralAntilles	The godawful pixelated desktop image.	01:14
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VDVsx	timeless_mbp, I expect so, I discovered a lot of visual defects in this release	01:14
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: so... the squiggly thing	01:14
timeless_mbp	for one, it's gone in recent versions	01:15
timeless_mbp	however i don't recall it being pixelated on device	01:15
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timeless_mbp	are you sure VDVsx was running at true aspect ratio?	01:15
GeneralAntilles	Higher DPI probably hides or something.	01:15
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, neither here, is youtube sucking up the video	01:15
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, it doesn't show well in any of the screenshots or screencasts I've seen.	01:15
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GeneralAntilles	http://static.maemo.org/static/m/Maemo5_alpha__SDK_Desktop.png	01:16
timeless_mbp	hrm	01:16
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GeneralAntilles	16bpp is also bad with gradients.	01:16
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, yap, you are right is a little bit pixelated here too	01:20
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VDVsx	but the coolest feature is around 1:16, anybody noticed that one? :P	01:23
lcuk	anyone know if maemo mapper is broken for google?	01:23
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, what, the desktop shortcuts?	01:24
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, look at the icons color in maemopad	01:25
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VDVsx	it change with a mouse over, lolol	01:25
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GeneralAntilles	lol	01:26
GeneralAntilles	Nice	01:26
dsample	Hi, I've just installed Scratchbox on Ubuntu 8.10 but Xephyr gives an error about DESKTOP when it starts up	01:26
Myrtti	:-)	01:27
dsample	Xoo starts, but using 'select device' to choose N800 doesn't actually change to the N800 simulator, any idea what could be wrong?	01:27
VDVsx	nokia guys probably noticed the visual bugs, but anyway I will made some annotations in the video tomorrow to fill a bug report, just to prevent :P	01:27
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LiraNuna	so it supports USB OTG, but how do I see stuff	01:30
Davide	Any idea why I cannot install e2fsprogs	01:30
Davide	trying to boot from flash?	01:30
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dsample	the Xephyr error I get is "Xephyr cannot open host display. Is DISPLAY set?"	01:30
* GeneralAntilles attempts to channel Davide's error message.		01:30
GeneralAntilles	Davide, no.	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Davide, what's the problem? ;)	01:30
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Davide	heh well I get Package e2fsprogs is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source However the following packages replace it: libuuidl	01:31
Davide	E: Package e2fsprogs has no installation candidate	01:32
Davide	I've made sure repository.maemo.org is enabled	01:32
Davide	and ran apt-get update	01:33
Davide	it's a fresh install on the tablet too.. Maybe I shouldn't have restored my settings?	01:33
Davide	idk	01:33
GeneralAntilles	It's in Extras-devel.	01:34
GeneralAntilles	~extras	01:34
infobot	extras is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	01:34
torkiano	hello all, I follow this instructions but when I execute sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0beta.sh –u torkiano -F	01:34
torkiano	E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture.	01:34
Davide	i'll try ty	01:34
torkiano	¿?¿?	01:34
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Davide	GeneralAntilles I just reflashed my drive, and I had Easy debian installed previously on my external card. How do I get rid of that previous easy deb stuff on my external card and gain that space back?	01:36
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Davide	Do I have to format?	01:37
johnx	that would probably be the easiest way	01:37
Davide	:(	01:37
Davide	ok	01:37
johnx	hmm? is there a reason you want to avoid that?	01:38
johnx	you can just manually delete it	01:38
Davide	got lots of stuff on it I'll have to back it up to my desktop I guess	01:38
Davide	no biggie	01:38
Davide	had hoped there was an easier way :)	01:38
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Davide	johnx if I install easy debian again... and select that card again... will it re-use or write over that previous easy deb instalation? or create a new instance of it?	01:39
Davide	thank you GeneralAntilles it was in Extras Devel! it works!	01:40
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johnx	I don't know	01:41
johnx	sorry, I don't use easy debian	01:41
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, 24hours connected to my router :O (idling, but still!)	01:41
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, you bought a freaking router finally?	01:42
lcuk	yeah	01:42
GeneralAntilles	lol	01:42
GeneralAntilles	You should get about 3-4 days idle on WiFi	01:42
lcuk	needs must, was getting packet loss with adhoc and more than a couple of devices	01:43
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GeneralAntilles	You get something you can put Tomato on?	01:43
Myrtti	woo	01:44
GeneralAntilles	Can we promote e2fsprogs yet?	01:44
lcuk	heh gan, no i didnt like setting this one up - i still have an odd connection path	01:45
Myrtti	tshih, a router? ;-)	01:45
lbt	lcuk: you must do a wiki on how you do adhoc - I wanted to link to my laptop when I was out	01:46
lbt	needs a section on doing it under Ubuntu9.04 too	01:46
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lbt	and, I also read that tethering Nit to laptop was more power-efficient if you used bluetooth	01:46
Davide	ah johnx check it out... when I attach the tablet through usb to my desktop.. a file shows up debian-final.img.ext2 in my removable card. I'm just gonna delete that I guess that should work no?	01:47
johnx	yeah	01:47
Davide	johnx and it's 1.2gb	01:47
lcuk	lbt, depends on how much data is transfered	01:47
Davide	so that's the image	01:47
Davide	:)	01:47
johnx	yeah, I would say so	01:47
lcuk	and adhoc was as easy as infrastructure	01:47
lbt	oh- maybe it was the ubuntu making it hard... I had no internet at the time	01:48
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lcuk	no thats how i used it	01:48
lcuk	it didnt matter	01:49
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* GeneralAntilles is undergoing withdrawal from his music library.		01:49
lcuk	when i took multidevices out they always just found each other and i could ssh between em	01:49
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Davide	so when is the next tablet coming out?! :D !! who's getting a Pandora?	01:50
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dsample	Just installed SDK but the simulator's not doing much apart from the desktop (no options, etc do anything), could someone look at this? http://pastebin.com/me93ff45	01:50
lbt	meh - I've upped to 9.04 on the laptop so I'll try it again sometime	01:50
luke-jr_	should bootmenu allow different kernels for different menu items?	01:52
johnx	luke-jr_, nope. it doesn't work like that	01:53
luke-jr_	:<	01:53
luke-jr_	would it be simple to hack in?	01:53
johnx	but if you patch it we'd love to hear about it	01:53
luke-jr_	if I make a kexec-capable kernel the default	01:53
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johnx	yeah, it shouldn't be too hard	01:53
johnx	people haven't had all that much luck with kexec IIRC though	01:53
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Davide	damn it	01:53
luke-jr_	I guess that brings me to the real question:	01:54
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luke-jr_	is the N810 usable w/ a custom kernel?	01:54
Davide	cannot umount /media/mmc2: Device or resource busy	01:54
Davide	idk why it's busy..	01:54
johnx	luke-jr_, largely, as long as you're not tied to Nokia's closed source stuff and you don't care about sound	01:54
luke-jr_	Davide: fuser -k /media/mmc2 ;)	01:54
luke-jr_	johnx: sound is buggy?	01:54
johnx	sound is not there	01:54
luke-jr_	wtf? -.-	01:54
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luke-jr_	johnx: and the entire reason I'm enquiring about another kernel is because cx<whatever> one doesn't really work with Mer bootmenu + Gentoo	01:55
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Davide	luke-jr_ still busy	01:55
luke-jr_	Davide: too slow; try faster	01:55
johnx	luke-jr_, it works with bootmenu + debian \| mer \| ubuntu so I think the problem is gentoo	01:56
Davide	?	01:56
johnx	Davide, my bet is metalayercrawler	01:56
luke-jr_	johnx: old-bootmenu worked ;)	01:56
johnx	luke-jr_, and the new one works for us, so again, I think the problem is in gentoo	01:56
luke-jr_	johnx: could be, diablo-sources seems to be missing code to use the modules	01:57
johnx	hmm?	01:57
Davide	:(	01:58
luke-jr_	johnx: http://pastebin.com/m56ce4a5b	01:58
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johnx	luke-jr_, look at our packages. ;)	01:58
luke-jr_	johnx: they're binaries, what about them? -.-	01:59
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johnx	uhm, we have source packages too	02:00
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johnx	seriously, it's working on mer, it is possible to make it work in gentoo. we're not holding back anything	02:01
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, don't lie.	02:02
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johnx	GeneralAntilles, well, we're not holding anything back, except from people who work on other distros :D	02:03
johnx	^obviously kidding^	02:03
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johnx	'later	02:03
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luke-jr_	johnx: I'm not good at hunting for things I don't know what I need	02:03
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luke-jr_	the undefined symbols mentioned trying to load it are unknown to Google	02:04
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johnx	luke-jr_, I don't have time right now. why not just unpack a recent mer image and look at our init.d scripts?	02:05
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luke-jr_	I fail to see what init.d scripts have to do with missing kernel symbols O.o	02:06
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dantonic	heh stupid virtual memory was enabled	02:07
dantonic	I guess that was part of the settings I restored :(	02:08
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dantonic	Warning: no primary partition is marked bootable (active) This does not matter for LILO, but the DOS MBR will not boot this disk. Do you want to write this to disk? [ynq]	02:12
dantonic	Doesnt say anything about this in the guide is this fine? just hit "y"?	02:13
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luke-jr_	dantonic: DOS doesn't run on Nseries anyway	02:15
GeneralAntilles	DOSBox	02:15
dantonic	idk what that means... I just hit Y	02:15
dantonic	well I know what dos is but I dont know what it's asking me for exactly	02:15
luke-jr_	GeneralAntilles: somehow I don't think that's relevant to his problem?	02:16
luke-jr_	dantonic: it's saying DOS won't like your partition table	02:16
luke-jr_	dantonic: which doesn't matter since you don't run DOS on it	02:16
dantonic	so "y" was the correct answer?	02:16
luke-jr_	sure	02:16
dantonic	wooohhoooooo!	02:16
dantonic	:)	02:16
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AStorm	hey guys	02:20
AStorm	anyone wanting to fix Google Maps for our favorite maemo-mapper app?	02:20
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ssvb	luke-jr_: these symbols are from umac.ko	02:27
ssvb	luke-jr_: are you trying to use binary wlan driver with the new kernels?	02:27
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ssvb	luke-jr_: don't know if you are interested, but there is fully open source driver in development: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/stlc45xx/	02:33
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dantonic	darn	02:45
dantonic	Something went wrong it didn't work	02:45
dantonic	:(	02:45
dantonic	couldn't have been that easy!	02:45
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torkiano	one question, is the n810 a arm6 device?	02:47
ssvb	torkiano: it's armv6 device	02:48
torkiano	ssvb, great	02:48
torkiano	seems that fremantle support our hardware :)	02:49
ssvb	torkiano: ?	02:49
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torkiano	there is a toolchain for arm6	02:50
torkiano	in fremantle beta	02:50
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, not quite.	02:53
AStorm	except it's different CPU	02:53
AStorm	same arch, but it won't run anyway	02:53
GeneralAntilles	torkiano, most of the N8x0 stuff isn't supported in the Fremantle kernel.	02:54
AStorm	kernels can be replaced - question is, if apps will work	02:54
torkiano	ops :(	02:55
torkiano	well, we have mer anyway :)	02:55
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GeneralAntilles	Practically speaking, Mer is going to bring most of the relevant user-facing stuff to OMAP2.	02:56
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torkiano	I have this error when installing new sdd: /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/invoke-rc.d: line 1: /sbin/runlevel: No such file or directory	02:56
torkiano	anyone more?	02:56
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dantonic	ok re flashing!	03:02
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LiraNuna	will Mer have gnome desktop someday? (optional?)	03:53
LiraNuna	I want deblet :	03:53
LiraNuna	:<	03:53
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lopz	gn	04:00
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luke-jr_	ssvb: no, Diablo kernel	04:38
luke-jr_	ssvb: the new driver doesn't work with Diablo kernel :/	04:39
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nwf	Hello all. Relative newcomer to maemo wonders why the maemo-extras repository lacks a Release.gpg? It's causing my tablet's apt-get to freak out every time I go to fetch a package from said, and by extension making me nervous. :)	04:48
johnx	nokia does that on purpose for ... some reason? I think to emphasize that packages come from 3rd parties and shouldn't be taken as 100% trusted.	04:48
nwf	That's rather unfortunate... surely they could flag that in some way that didn't leave my tablet vulnerable to MITM? :)	04:49
timeless_mbp	um	04:49
timeless_mbp	you'd rather MATE?	04:49
timeless_mbp	(Man At The End)	04:49
nwf	Yes, much.	04:50
timeless_mbp	why?	04:50
johnx	timeless_mbp, well the current situation leaves you vulnerable to both ...	04:50
timeless_mbp	true	04:50
timeless_mbp	so... there's a study somewhere	04:50
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timeless_mbp	which talks about safety helmets	04:51
nwf	I mean, everybody seems to think it's a great idea (Fedora switched to it after being compromised quite thouroughly; Debian does it...) and I enjoy having my machines check that they "probably" got the right packages.	04:51
johnx	timeless_mbp, and how they save lives when worn on bikes and motorcycles?	04:51
timeless_mbp	and it basically says that there was a time before them when people were somewhat cautious because they understood that there were risks	04:51
timeless_mbp	and then with their advent, people became in certain areas more reckless and relied on them	04:51
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nwf	... OK, so patch apt and dpkg to spit out SHA1 sums of the packages it's installing and I'll gladly do the compare by hand. =P	04:51
johnx	timeless_mbp, wasn't there a similar study done by car companies when they were trying to avoid having to install seatbelts?	04:51
timeless_mbp	the result is that helmets protect you against certain mild things	04:52
timeless_mbp	but instead what you get are much more serious injuries	04:52
* timeless_mbp shrugs		04:52
nwf	I... don't see the comparison, frankly.	04:52
timeless_mbp	johnx: wrt cars, i think we'd all be better if your car wasn't capable of going 50mph :)	04:52
johnx	for me it works as a nice checksum on an unreliable connection	04:52
nwf	There's that too.	04:53
timeless_mbp	kermit :)	04:53
* timeless_mbp shrugs		04:53
timeless_mbp	i don't really care	04:53
nwf	Again, patches to make apt use kermit welcome, but the GPG machinery exists and is used on Nokia's real repos as it stands.	04:53
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timeless_mbp	i think extras is technically more owned by the community	04:54
GeneralAntilles	johnx, ABS. ;)	04:54
timeless_mbp	which means in theory you could try to convince X-Fade directly	04:54
johnx	GeneralAntilles, it's nice in dangerous conditions, I won't lie.	04:54
nwf	... with slightly less snark, what's the right thing to do here? Should I file a RFE on maemo.org?	04:54
timeless_mbp	nwf: i'd hope you'd find there already is one	04:54
GeneralAntilles	Nokia still holds the keys to r.m.o	04:54
nwf	A few quick googles before I came to the channel didn't turn anything up, but I could have missed it.	04:55
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: surely someone could create an additional key	04:55
timeless_mbp	nwf: well, it'd be in bugs.maemo.org either way	04:55
timeless_mbp	so search first, and file if you can't find it	04:55
GeneralAntilles	The metaphorical ones, not the literal ones.	04:55
timeless_mbp	nwf: btw arguing from a debian perspective is stupid	04:56
timeless_mbp	debian actually compromised a significant portion of the world	04:56
timeless_mbp	and i think you'll find that fedora had to revoke their keys because of the compromise	04:57
timeless_mbp	which means that anyone w/ a system that has the old keys, and bad update info	04:57
timeless_mbp	could be theoretically attacked by someone w/ the compromised keys if that victim doesn't manage to get the information about the revocation	04:57
nwf	Erm, the Debian SSL fiasco remains a separate issue.	04:57
timeless_mbp	signing doesn't protect against compromise	04:58
nwf	Yes, there are all kinds of PKI issues remaining. However, not signing the repository doesn't seem like a great solution.	04:58
timeless_mbp	and in fact auto signing makes things worse	04:58
timeless_mbp	because then you end up w/ hundreds of binaries which you think are ok, but which could be in fact not ok	04:58
nwf	I understand that signed packages won't protect me from compromise. it does, however, do a pretty good job of checking that I'm actually talking to the right server.	04:58
timeless_mbp	https.	04:58
timeless_mbp	and don't break the https CA rules	04:59
nwf	With cert checking, sure. Does r.m.o serve on https? Can I get apt to check this?	04:59
timeless_mbp	sadly it doesn't, that seems like a reasonable bug to file	04:59
nwf	(I don't really care about the mechanism; if https works and you don't mind holding my hand to get it deployed on my tablet, I'd be happy to use it instead.)	04:59
timeless_mbp	i might file that bug, but it's 5am	05:00
timeless_mbp	and i need to baby sit an upgrade and maybe pretend to sleep	05:00
nwf	The advantage of Release.gpg over HTTPS is that it's less work for the r.m.o server to do the Release.gpg signing.	05:00
timeless_mbp	well	05:00
timeless_mbp	r.m.o isn't one server	05:00
nwf	Fair, but the point remains.	05:00
timeless_mbp	nokia pays for akamai	05:00
timeless_mbp	or something like it	05:00
timeless_mbp	and whichever one it is can be paid to get crypto right	05:00
nwf	Ah, if you're using akamai, SSL is somewhat hairy, AFAIK.	05:01
timeless_mbp	i don't remember if it's still akamai	05:01
nwf	Since TLS SNI nor HTTP/1.1 Upgrade: STARTTLS haven't yet been widely deployed.	05:01
timeless_mbp	yeah, it's akamai	05:02
GeneralAntilles	Maybe if we switch over to carrier pigeons signed with lineart drawings by X-Fade.	05:04
johnx	timeless_mbp, what perspective can you compare it to, except for other people who run repositories?	05:06
johnx	actually, a big nokia modem pool and kermit would be awesome :)	05:07
timeless_mbp	drug dealers? :)	05:07
timeless_mbp	you go to china and ask for a drug	05:07
timeless_mbp	you don't even bother asking for the name brand, generic will be fine	05:07
timeless_mbp	you're shocked when it kills your pet goldfish	05:07
timeless_mbp	after all, you went to a drug dealer	05:08
timeless_mbp	isn't that what a pharmacist is?	05:08
timeless_mbp	ah, but was the drug dealer licensed? well no, you say, but that shouldn't matter, after all he knew how to count pills	05:08
johnx	I think I lost the analogy	05:09
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timeless_mbp	you don't just put a stamp of approval on a product and say "oh look"	05:09
timeless_mbp	in order for a stamp to mean something, the whole process needs to be watched	05:10
nwf	... would an argument for consistency do anything for you? Either sign maemo-extras or don't sign any of the repos at all. You seem to be arguing for the latter position, AFAICT?	05:10
timeless_mbp	nope	05:10
timeless_mbp	i'm arguing that nokia is making a certain claim about the signed repository	05:11
GeneralAntilles	The Extras QA is not yet so rigorous that we could ensure that packages in it are safe.	05:11
nwf	They are making a claim that the repository was in a given configuration at a given time; that's all the Release.gpg file says.	05:11
timeless_mbp	that isn't what it says to users	05:11
timeless_mbp	and what it says to users is what matters	05:11
nwf	The point of signing the repositories isn't to ensure that packages are safe -- you need TAL or PCC or some other research project to materialize first to make that claim.	05:11
timeless_mbp	explaining that to users is impossible	05:12
nwf	What it says to users is that the package manager doesn't pop up the "these are not Nokia" dialog; you can surely ensure the same experience without compromising the fundamentals.	05:12
timeless_mbp	"here, trust me, i'm giving you something which isn't tampered"	05:12
timeless_mbp	"oh, so it's safe, because i trust you"	05:12
johnx	timeless_mbp, explaining it to users who already know how to use apt-get from the command line?	05:12
timeless_mbp	"and if it isn't, then it's your fault, you signed for it"	05:12
johnx	this never even shows in h-a-m	05:12
timeless_mbp	johnx: actually, it does, kinda	05:13
luke-jr_	nwf: I believe that pop-up implies signed pkgs ARE guaranteed in some way	05:13
johnx	timeless_mbp, but there's no reason it has to	05:13
johnx	it's just arbitrary that unsigned packages trigger that	05:13
nwf	luke-jr_: That's a bug, not a feature, but OK, keep the pop-up for r.m.o's hypothetical newly signed status, I don't care.	05:13
timeless_mbp	we can't change the existing devices	05:14
timeless_mbp	or their behaviors	05:14
timeless_mbp	or the users who learned them	05:14
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, it's probably a topic worth discussion on the lists.	05:14
timeless_mbp	(in case someone actually read those dialogs)	05:14
nwf	... I am not suggesting to change the device, the hardware, the behavior, or the users.	05:14
nwf	I am 100% OK if the user experience is not at all altered by signing r.m.o.	05:14
johnx	timeless_mbp, heh. which doesn't matter cause there aren't any SSUs coming down the pike to change the behavior :)	05:14
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timeless_mbp	johnx: well, signing diablo-extras would change behaviors	05:15
GeneralAntilles	johnx, well, we might end up pushing some.	05:15
timeless_mbp	and i can't speak for maemo.org	05:15
timeless_mbp	i'm not council	05:15
nwf	Anyway, thanks for the discussion... I've filed bug 4415; if it's WONTFIXed, so be it. :)	05:17
GeneralAntilles	On that note, I hope we get a Nokian to at least run next election.	05:17
johnx	nwf, if it's WONTFIXed, check out mer. we sign our repos :)	05:17
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: hah	05:17
nwf	Will mer run on my N810?	05:17
timeless_mbp	yes	05:17
* nwf knows nothing about it		05:17
johnx	yup	05:17
timeless_mbp	and you're probably better served by doing so	05:18
nwf	I just had to reflash my N810 so I'm starting over... should I do so with mer?	05:18
* timeless_mbp should reflash at least one n800 w/ it		05:18
johnx	basically, we're taking the open source parts of maemo and basing it on ubuntu (a very thin install of ubuntu)	05:18
timeless_mbp	nwf: i would	05:18
johnx	nwf, if you have a spare sd card, I'd recommend testing on that	05:18
johnx	some things aren't quite there yet, but bugs (or patches!) are welcome	05:18
nwf	"some things" ? :)	05:19
johnx	sound	05:19
nwf	_That's_ a bummer.	05:19
johnx	it's almost there	05:19
johnx	power saving could be improved, but that will always be the case on any operating system :)	05:19
nwf	Since I use my N810 as an overglorified media player for roughly half of its uptime. ;)	05:19
johnx	so, dual boot from sd card if you want to give it a try	05:19
johnx	sound should be there in the next couple weeks (if I stop chatting and help the people doing all the work O_o;)	05:20
timeless_mbp	nwf: if you're big on this stuff, jump fully and help get sound working sooner :)	05:20
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, did I also show you my bugzilla mockup?	05:21
timeless_mbp	but yeah, if you're afraid, start w/ an sd card	05:21
timeless_mbp	nope	05:21
GeneralAntilles	http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/bugzilla-newstyle-test.jpg	05:21
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure about the sidebar.	05:21
GeneralAntilles	I think it's mostly a bad idea.	05:21
timeless_mbp	hold on	05:21
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timeless_mbp	see url	05:23
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timeless_mbp	also, is bugzilla dev or community? :)	05:23
timeless_mbp	mxr is clearly dev	05:23
jX	hey timeless, long time no see. ;)	05:23
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GeneralAntilles	Dev	05:23
timeless_mbp	hey	05:23
* jX salutes the General		05:23
timeless_mbp	ask these guys about NAT :)	05:23
jX	I am :)	05:24
jX	that's why I'm here :D	05:24
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jX	Ok, so, what timeless is suggesting I annoy you all with is this. Let's say I have a phone which I can connect to by N810 via bluetooth and surf the interwebs. Now let us say I have a laptop with wifi (or other wifi enabled device). Through what hoops do I need to jump to use the 810 as a bridge to the webotrons?	05:26
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GeneralAntilles	adhoc might work	05:26
johnx	how much control of the phone's networking stack do you have?	05:26
jX	little?	05:26
jX	I mena, the 810 conencts fine, perfectly	05:27
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jX	it's an AT&T 3g phone that the n810 can surf effortlessly	05:27
johnx	NAT on the N810 might work, but I would buy a $10 bt adapter for the notebook	05:27
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, ahaha, that's what you meant.	05:27
* GeneralAntilles is really addled today.		05:27
jX	johnx: yeah, the thing here is I have 3g and my friend doesn't, so he wants to be able to connect to my 810's wifi and use my 3g with his 2g iphone while we're on teh road	05:28
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jX	the iphone can't tether via bluetooth	05:28
jX	it's crippled.	05:28
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johnx	well, first go out and compile a kernel with all the NAT modules	05:28
jX	so we're thinking, his iphone can connect to my 810's wifi, then through that to the phone	05:28
johnx	thought I might have seen some recently	05:29
jX	hrm	05:29
jX	I could dual boot that, that'd be acceptable to me.	05:29
GeneralAntilles	Not gonna be much better than EDGE	05:29
johnx	you'll have to run NAT on the N810	05:29
GeneralAntilles	Since you're bottlenecked to about 50KB/sec	05:29
jX	I get a littel better than that	05:29
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, interesting URL, but what do you think of the sidebar?	05:33
timeless_mbp	i think you need to consider what happens when there's most stuff there	05:33
timeless_mbp	bugzilla supports 3 rows of footer stuff	05:33
timeless_mbp	one is for saved searches and can easily have a dozen links	05:34
timeless_mbp	if you're an admin, you can have about a dozen links in one of the other rows	05:34
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that's what I was worried about	05:34
GeneralAntilles	Plus the horizontal space usage in buglists, etc.	05:34
timeless_mbp	further.... bugzilla uses the right side of the bug for flags and cc lists	05:34
GeneralAntilles	Making all the web applications match is a pain.	05:34
timeless_mbp	ayup	05:35
locutus	gah	05:35
locutus	why is it that my N810 ALWAYS runs out of batteries in 1 day	05:35
GeneralAntilles	locutus, router than doesn't support PSM?	05:35
GeneralAntilles	Something running away in the background?	05:35
locutus	nothing running in the background	05:36
locutus	but PSM might be a good one	05:36
GeneralAntilles	Easy test is to see what sort of battery life you get disconnected.	05:36
locutus	i'll remind myself to put it in offline mode when i put it in the pack	05:36
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GeneralAntilles	I guess I should wait until andre__ upgrades to 3.4 before playing too much with the templates.	05:37
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LiraNuna	doesn't OMAP has 3D acceleration?	06:13
GeneralAntilles	Yes	06:14
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LiraNuna	does N8xx use it?	06:15
johnx	nope	06:15
LiraNuna	just plain framebuffer	06:15
LiraNuna	?	06:15
johnx	yup	06:15
johnx	plain framebuffer with an LCD controller that has issues	06:15
LiraNuna	blerg	06:15
LiraNuna	no one tried to RE?	06:16
johnx	some people have a bit. it's not that simple	06:16
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johnx	if someone stepped up and lead the effort, they might find people willing to help hinthint*	06:17
LiraNuna	hehe	06:17
LiraNuna	well, I RE'd the Nintendo DS and the GBA a bit	06:18
LiraNuna	ARM11, hmm	06:18
LiraNuna	btw, what's the GCC target for it? arm-elf, arm-eabi?	06:19
LiraNuna	arm-linux-elf/eabi?	06:19
johnx	I think arm-eabi	06:20
johnx	hmm, actually, my cross compiler is: arm-linux-gnu-gcc	06:20
LiraNuna	no elf?	06:21
LiraNuna	k	06:21
LiraNuna	http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=6123	06:21
LiraNuna	that's the chip in question?	06:21
johnx	yup. targeyup	06:22
johnx	<- cut+paste fail	06:22
LiraNuna	WLAN a/b/g? is a supported?	06:22
johnx	b/g only	06:22
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LiraNuna	johnx, what C library do you use for arm-linux-gnu-gcc?	06:25
johnx	glibc	06:25
* LiraNuna is used to setting up newlib		06:25
johnx	there's an SDK you know ...	06:25
LiraNuna	oh	06:26
LiraNuna	I'm sorry, I'm used to compiling my own toolchain :/	06:26
johnx	well, go for it :)	06:26
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johnx	the code sourcery one works too	06:26
johnx	also, there were apparently some part of the driver leaked/available for an earlier version of the kernel	06:26
LiraNuna	link or it didn't happen :D	06:27
johnx	gaaah	06:27
LiraNuna	haha	06:27
johnx	first of all, I'm not promising that it's 100% related, and in fact it might not even be for the right chip	06:27
johnx	but, let me dig through the logs and find it. could take a couple minutes ...	06:27
LiraNuna	it's a starting point - to see how they thing	06:27
LiraNuna	think*	06:28
LiraNuna	see, ARM either has BIOS calls (swi) or memory mapped are for I/O	06:28
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LiraNuna	checking target system type... Invalid configuration `arm-linux-gnu-gcc': machine `arm-linux-gnu' not recognized	06:29
LiraNuna	I knew it's missing somethin	06:29
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johnx	hmm	06:30
GeneralAntilles	I guess TI decided they wanted to genericize MID	06:31
LiraNuna	err, no need for -gcc :/	06:31
johnx	ah, I just gave you the name of my cross compiler binary :)	06:31
LiraNuna	yeah, I didn't realize that too	06:31
LiraNuna	how do I gain root on N810?	06:32
LiraNuna	I want to install ssh	06:32
johnx	install rootsh or install openssh from extras	06:32
johnx	~extras	06:32
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	06:32
johnx	also, the pvr.ko kernel module is in the 2430 sdk for linux	06:33
johnx	gotta track down a link, but you might do it faster than me	06:33
* johnx keeps looking		06:33
LiraNuna	2430 or 2420?	06:33
* rm_you looks back at johnx		06:33
johnx	hey rm_you	06:33
johnx	LiraNuna, like I said, i guess I was wrong about it being for exactly our chip	06:33
LiraNuna	ah	06:34
johnx	it's still an mbx so there might be some clues	06:34
johnx	if you go here: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ and search for pvr.ko the reading might be interesting	06:35
johnx	but no promises	06:35
Macer	well	06:35
Macer	download openoffice for windows :)	06:35
Macer	haha	06:35
Macer	i hate the direction ms office took. it looks like it was sent through a gay parade	06:35
johnx	you mean it has some sense of aesthetic sensibility? yes, I'd have to agree	06:36
LiraNuna	johnx, I got my N810 today, I don't seem to have 'extras' in the application manager	06:36
johnx	that's why I linked it up above :)	06:36
LiraNuna	ah, I'm sorry I missed that	06:36
johnx	no prob	06:37
johnx	you could also do this: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/openssh/	06:37
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LiraNuna	thank you	06:39
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GeneralAntilles	itT's upgrading.	06:43
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johnx	ItT is	06:44
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that's what I said. :P	06:45
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johnx	that's what she said :D	06:45
GeneralAntilles	rimshot	06:45
* johnx runs		06:45
GeneralAntilles	As sophomoric as it is, there are few jokes with as unlimited potential as that one.	06:46
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Macer	blah	06:51
Macer	have to restart my damn zimbra server	06:51
johnx	geek horror movies: "The Zimbra Server of the Damned"	06:53
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Macer	heh	06:57
Macer	no.. i just forgot to install ntpd	06:57
Macer	i don't know wtf i was thinking	06:57
Macer	and i guess after like 4 months... a clock can drive like 2 weeks off	06:57
Macer	wtf kind of shit is that?	06:57
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johnx	pretty crappy clock	06:57
Macer	it's a vbox :)	06:58
johnx	still, PC clocks are pretty atrocious	06:58
johnx	aaah	06:58
johnx	fun timing crap :)	06:58
Macer	yeah. it obviously isn't swiss kept timing	06:58
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Macer	so things got a little wierd moving the clock up like 2 weeks	06:58
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, I'm totally in favor of shipping mechanical movements in new computers just for that purpose. :P	06:59
johnx	and I want radio-isotope powered laptops, but i don't think we're the target market :)	07:00
Macer	haha	07:00
Macer	that would be awesome :)	07:00
Macer	i could picture gears in a computer to keep the timing correct	07:00
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, I hate that we're rarely the target market.	07:00
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johnx	well, things are moving towards more and more targeted markets :)	07:01
johnx	it's a nice change	07:01
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Macer	since i gave Sts my n800 have like 3 SDs i'm not using heh.. going to copy important stuff to them now	07:01
Macer	i should start using the S in the SD part	07:02
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thux	morning	08:56
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Stskeeps	dear god, new iTT theme is evil in the morning	09:23
johnx	ah. it's back up?	09:24
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GAN8001	Stskeeps, don't be hateful.	09:32
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Stskeeps	GAN800: ah, i'm just sensitive to light in the morning :P	09:34
johnx	especially when you're note expecting it :)	09:34
GeneralAntilles	Reggie made a rather herculean effort getting it together, but it needs some tweaking.	09:35
Stskeeps	hehe	09:35
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GeneralAntilles	The js dropdown menus just don't work.	09:35
* johnx digs the big font		09:36
* luke-jr_ notes dropdown menus can work without js		09:36
* Corsac still has the old theme		09:36
Corsac	(but I'm not logged in)	09:36
luke-jr_	johnx: I hope they aren't forcing a set font size on everyone? :/	09:36
johnx	my autopager doesn't work anymore :/	09:36
luke-jr_	or worse, scaling the viewer's preference larger :/	09:37
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johnx	mmm, minimalistic is darker and lightning fast	09:38
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johnx	I think I'll take Denmark's police over UK police :)	09:49
johnx	http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/28/police-in-denmark-hu.html	09:49
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LiraNuna	how does USB OTG works?	09:51
LiraNuna	I got the adapter	09:51
johnx	n810 or n800?	09:52
LiraNuna	N810	09:52
LiraNuna	(WiMAX)	09:52
johnx	ah, so you have a micro-a -> full sized a adapter? or a micro-b -> female-female -> full sized a	09:52
johnx	?	09:52
LiraNuna	micro-b -> female	09:53
LiraNuna	http://www.twstore.com/gcusbafzm.html	09:54
LiraNuna	this one	09:54
LiraNuna	a better picture - http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/twstore_2045_70640944	09:54
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LiraNuna	I tried a USB flash drive, but it won't receive power and I don't see anything in the file manager	09:54
johnx	http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode	09:55
johnx	as root: http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode	09:55
johnx	there's a cool little statusbar applet that does it too	09:55
johnx	more copy fail from me, as root: echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode	09:56
LiraNuna	johnx, thanks a lot	09:56
LiraNuna	"sudo gainroot" ? no "sudo su -" ?	09:57
johnx	I forgot why su doesn't work	09:58
dantonic	Hey anyone have Openoffice 3.0 working on their tablet?	09:58
johnx	I think it has to do with busybox not having SUID root bit set	09:58
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LiraNuna	suid bit? I thought root == userid(1000)	09:59
johnx	root = userid 0	10:00
LiraNuna	err, normal users are 1000	10:00
LiraNuna	<- long day	10:00
johnx	second, the SUID bit gives an app the ability to act with the permissions of its owner	10:00
Stskeeps	johnx: they're often friendly unless you're hostile	10:01
johnx	Stskeeps, yeah! they were in Japan too! it's just such a foreign concept to me though...	10:01
LiraNuna	Stskeeps, are you suggesting I'm a troll?	10:01
johnx	I think he's referring to an earlier comment I made about police in Denmark :)	10:02
LiraNuna	or I'm having a really long day and need to rest..	10:02
Stskeeps	LiraNuna: nah, talking about danish policemen :)	10:02
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johnx	basically the only way to have a usable su on maemo is to essentially give all apps SUID root privileges (because they're all just links to busybox)	10:06
johnx	or have a standalone su binary that's not linked to busybox	10:07
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johnx	since Nokia didn't really want to hand out root on the device anyways (except to developers, etc), they just decided that the sudo gainroot hack was good enough	10:07
Stskeeps	and sudoers.d	10:08
Stskeeps	which is actually sane	10:08
johnx	yes, sudoers.d is a nice touch	10:08
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johnx	<- big fan of turning monolithic config files into foo.d	10:09
Stskeeps	more than welcome to work on /etc/hildon.d btw	10:10
johnx	for startup? or for general settings?	10:11
Stskeeps	for start-hildon startup	10:11
Stskeeps	so i can dump it let's say 05set-backlight or whatever	10:11
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johnx	yes, and so we can support multiple devices	10:12
Stskeeps	wait, where's the "Thanks" button on the new theme?	10:12
Stskeeps	nm	10:12
Stskeeps	where's the Thanks count? :P	10:13
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mgedmin	hm, there could be a suid wrapper that execs busybox with argv[0] set appropriately, if it matches a whitelist	10:21
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LiraNuna	how come I can't access maemo.org from my tablet?	10:37
johnx	what happens when you try?	10:38
LiraNuna	"Connecting"	10:38
johnx	connects just fine here	10:39
johnx	can you get to anything else?	10:39
LiraNuna	yeah, easy	10:39
johnx	weirdness	10:40
johnx	they use a caching network and they just changed a whole bunch of stuff, so ...	10:40
johnx	maybe try to force a reload, though I'm not sure how you do that on the tablet's browser ..	10:40
LiraNuna	I just want to get usb otg working :<	10:40
johnx	if you already added extras, I think that usb otg plugin is available from app manager	10:40
johnx	not sure if it's extras or extras-devel	10:41
StsN801	ljp, much appreciated on the speedy inclusion of osso-system-lock-l10n-public :)	10:41
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LiraNuna	I installed maemo-usb-control and I see nothing	10:41
StsN801	(source)	10:41
johnx	LiraNuna, it's an application. look in your menus	10:41
johnx	probably extras or something	10:41
LiraNuna	nothing	10:42
StsN801	control panel?	10:42
johnx	ah, is that the one that adds a control panel applet?	10:42
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johnx	anyways, good luck. I'm off to bed	10:43
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StsN801	nini	10:44
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LiraNuna	I tried, there's nothing in panels	10:47
StsN801	in settings-control panel?	10:48
johnx	just fyi, maemo-control-usb seems to be for usb networking	10:49
johnx	should be bottom of the control panel, "USB networking"	10:49
johnx	LiraNuna, anyways, all the GUI things do at their core is echo host > /sys/...	10:51
* johnx really sleeps		10:51
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StsN801	and rmmod g_file_storage	10:52
johnx	StsN801, only the ones that enable usb networking. for host mode you need g_file_storage IIRC	10:53
StsN801	k	10:53
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:59
timeless_mbp	yes	11:00
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: newstyle bugzilla looks good	11:04
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lbt	morning Jaffa	11:10
lbt	bleb's being useful again.... lets me mirror fremantle to OBS really easily so Stskeeps can promote things into Mer already	11:11
Jaffa	Cool	11:12
lbt	yup	11:13
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LiraNuna	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cym7UaUk5s8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.valeriovalerio.org%2F%3Fp%3D225&feature=player_embedded	12:10
LiraNuna	how can they blur/drag and others?	12:10
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Jaffa	LiraNuna: "they"?	12:14
LiraNuna	"the developers" hehe	12:15
Jaffa	Because Maemo 5 supports OpenGL-ES and, on top of it, Clutter.	12:15
LiraNuna	will it run on N series?	12:16
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Jaffa	LiraNuna: Do you mean existing N800 or N810 devices?	12:17
LiraNuna	Jaffa, yes	12:17
Jaffa	No.	12:17
Jaffa	Parts of Maemo 5 are being backported as part of the Mer project: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer	12:17
Myrtti	that demo just makes me want to cry a bit more for a knitting pattern designer	12:18
LiraNuna	it could if we had the PowerVR, right?	12:18
Jaffa	LiraNuna: Theoretically	12:18
LiraNuna	do Nokia have plans for next gen N series tablet?	12:19
Jaffa	One assumes so ;-)	12:19
Jaffa	~rx-51	12:19
infobot	methinks rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html	12:19
Jaffa	Have a look at those articles ---^	12:19
LiraNuna	thanks	12:21
LiraNuna	I found pvrdrv.ko, it still have debug symbols on it	12:22
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Jaffa	LiraNuna: You may also be interested in http://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_justification and http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Drivers_justification	12:24
LiraNuna	I read those, thanks. but I don't really thinks TI cares	12:24
StsN801	its imgtech, not ti	12:25
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LiraNuna	http://liranuna.com/junk/pvr.ko.objdump.txt	12:43
LiraNuna	00002d84 T AllocStaticFBMem	12:43
LiraNuna	000070f8 T InitMpegDeviceInfo	12:43
LiraNuna	I say we found gold	12:44
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Jaffa	LiraNuna: Where's this pvrdrv.ko come from? Presume it's not insertable on an N8x0?	12:48
LiraNuna	Jaffa, I didn't try	12:48
LiraNuna	but pvr is global, I doubt that there are several versions of it	12:49
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LiraNuna	but it's a valid armel kernel object	12:49
LiraNuna	with a lot of debug symbols	12:49
Stskeeps	hmm	12:49
Stskeeps	look for kernel version	12:49
Jaffa	There was previously one for the PepperPad, IIRC - but I can't remember the details (or if it was a different module)	12:49
Jaffa	lardman did a lot of research on it	12:50
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LiraNuna	is PepperPad compatible with N8x0?	12:53
LiraNuna	err PP's HW	12:54
X-Fade	No, different powervr.	12:55
LiraNuna	and where's the research is currently	12:55
X-Fade	LiraNuna: And that driver doesn't do anything without the userspace binaries.	12:56
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LiraNuna	X-Fade, I'm investigating, I come from ARM 7-9 EB embedded dev	12:56
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X-Fade	LiraNuna: Well, I wish you good luck ;)	12:59
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LiraNuna	http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdkdownloads/index.asp#GLES1b	13:18
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LiraNuna	there's a system emulator	13:22
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RST38h	http://de.ifun.ru/8/v/8v8cq1z7.jpg (no translation required)	13:59
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StsN800	wtf	14:04
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aquatix	what the hell?	14:07
* Myrtti gives everyone a lollipop		14:07
Myrtti	hmmmm?	14:08
aquatix	yum	14:09
* aquatix liks Myrtti lollip- hm, better not say that		14:09
aquatix	*licks	14:10
aquatix	aaanyways, quiet here :)	14:10
lbt	we's in #mer	14:10
aquatix	hm, good point	14:11
lbt	no lollipops in #mer though...	14:11
aquatix	:(	14:12
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Jaffa	Quick question before I look stupid: does the t.m.o theme have a way of going to "first new post" when using the "new posts" search?	14:22
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Jaffa	Aha, clicking on the "replies" number at the right looks like it should do it	14:23
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lbt	what's it called when a company grows and you split of a good section?	14:36
derf	A spin-off.	14:36
lbt	yeah, I'm looking for a good word for a CV	14:37
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Jaffa	lbt: "I was heavily involved in the setting up of the spin-off company, Visteon, from its parent company Ford"	14:48
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lbt	I think divest is winning	14:48
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Jaffa	lbt: IOW, "spin-off" is fine for a CV IMNSHO	14:48
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woglinde_	yeah spin-off is good	14:52
lbt	ok... less poncy	14:53
woglinde_	lbt why do you need a new job?	14:55
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woglinde_	hi qgil	14:56
qgil	hi	14:56
qgil	X-Fade: do you know whether there is a page equivalent to http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit-001/ for the Danish Weekend, so people can see the status of their sponsorship requests?=	14:56
qgil	lbt was asking for the status of his sponsorship but I actually don't find him in the regitrsation	14:57
X-Fade	qgil: They can see their own status through the register link.	14:57
qgil	maybe he didn't complete/started the sponsorship request, but he could not check	14:57
X-Fade	IIRC>	14:57
woglinde_	qgil can you say something about the gles stuff for endusers? do they have to get a "personal" license too?	14:57
qgil	ah ok, that should be enough	14:57
qgil	woglinde_ gles in Fremantle?	14:58
lbt	qgil: really?	14:58
woglinde_	qgil yes	14:58
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qgil	Maemo 5 users will get their devices (evebntually paying for them) and that will be it, only a buch of hackers will be aware of something called OpenGL ES under the hood	14:58
woglinde	qgil ah okay so have this agreement with imaginations	14:59
lbt	qgil: 100% sure I filled it in :)	14:59
X-Fade	lbt: Also confirmed the next step?	15:00
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lbt	(nb, at the time it didn't say I had to register	15:00
qgil	lbt please apply for sponsorship at http://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/register/8352ee2c242e11de8f60a7c7088bfc14fc14/	15:00
lbt	Yes, I confirmed...	15:00
lbt	heh, it remembers my answers :)	15:00
qgil	woglinde: the software in the image will contain whatever agreements with third parties, as usual	15:00
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X-Fade	lbt: Yes, those are stored in your profile.	15:01
qgil	any other developers thinking of applying, please do it soon (like e.g. now)	15:01
lbt	indeed - doesn't prove anything mind you	15:01
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qgil	X-Fade: fyi Sponsorship request for Maemo event rejected email contains no text at all, including my explanations - now lost	15:07
X-Fade	qgil: Hmm that is strange, I copied them from the old maemo2007 style.	15:08
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* Stskeeps checks up on libhildon in mer		15:12
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lopz	hola	15:38
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woglinde	jo luck	16:21
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cosmo_	how do i install an application to Settings menu?	16:51
woglinde	.desktop file	16:51
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cosmo_	i checked some .desktop files for applications in it, but they don't have category specified	16:51
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cosmo_	hm, i'll just have to try if it respects Category=Settings	16:54
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Guest9625_967	no news for ubuntu MID? is it allready downloadable somewhere?	17:32
Stskeeps	ubuntu mid sucked, according to Meiz :P	17:33
Guest9625_967	you try it?	17:33
Guest9625_967	you probably try an alpha version	17:34
Guest9625_967	lol	17:34
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thux	wonder why watching flash video takes much more battery than watching wmv...	17:53
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Stskeeps	flash is nasty	17:53
Stskeeps	:P	17:53
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thux	seems so	17:54
X-Fade	bacon?!? Bacone: http://blog.bacn.com/2009/03/baconcamp-the-bacone/ :)	17:54
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yerga	Have lcuk seen this: http://bacolicio.us/ ?	17:55
X-Fade	That bacn.com is also a site dedicated to bacon ;)	17:56
X-Fade	yerga: Lol @project application message ;)	17:57
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yerga	X-Fade, hehe	18:00
yerga	it hasn't much sense write the same thing so many times ;)	18:01
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X-Fade	yerga: Indeed.	18:02
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disco_stu	yerga, hi, is it working flickr with sharepy?	18:04
yerga	disco_stu, it should ;)	18:04
disco_stu	yerga, cant set the username	18:04
disco_stu	yerga, config stuff	18:05
yerga	flickr not need username	18:05
yerga	it launch the browser and you activate it in flickr	18:05
disco_stu	?	18:05
disco_stu	ah ok	18:05
yerga	disco_stu, actually there is a bug	18:06
yerga	just discovered it	18:07
disco_stu	yerga, its not launching anything	18:07
disco_stu	yerga, lol	18:07
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disco_stu	:-(	18:08
yerga	I'll fix it in one moment ;)	18:08
yerga	Hi lcuk	18:08
disco_stu	yerga, np man	18:08
disco_stu	yerga, no hay problema :)	18:08
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lcuk	hi yerga!	18:16
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* lcuk is being kicked out already lol		18:16
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RST38h	moo all	18:29
disco_stu	moo	18:29
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z4chh	there a git installer anywhere? i can't seem to find one	18:49
z4chh	for my n810..	18:49
andre__	what is a git installer?	18:49
z4chh	.install for git :D	18:50
lbt	apt-get install git	18:50
z4chh	lbt, i don't have the repo for it i suppose :\	18:50
lbt	hmm lcuk has it I think	18:51
* lbt isn't daft enough to run git on his tablet		18:51
Stskeeps	i had bzr on my tablet.	18:51
z4chh	lbt, eh?	18:51
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lbt	lcuk has git installed - he may know where it came from if not extras(-devel)	18:52
z4chh	yeah, ill have to speak to him about it...im trying to get his setup going for dev'ing liqbase	18:52
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z4chh	i already have scratchbox...but i want to see if a setup like his would be better	18:53
RST38h	Heh...US carriers screwed Nokia on billing	18:57
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irgsomething	are there any audio-tools like a spectrum analyzer for my n810?	18:59
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disco_stu	yerga: are you there	19:01
yerga	disco_stu, yes	19:01
disco_stu	yerga: i've been inspecting the svn	19:01
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disco_stu	yerga: we need some documentation	19:02
disco_stu	yerga: cause at first glance is hard to follow the code	19:02
yerga	disco_stu, yes I agree	19:03
disco_stu	yerga: i'll try to write some	19:03
disco_stu	yerga: with some diagrams	19:03
yerga	disco_stu, it would be great	19:03
yerga	thanks	19:03
disco_stu	yerga: what i want to ask you	19:03
disco_stu	yerga: how do you upload the deb to the repo ?	19:04
disco_stu	yerga: because i thought autobuilder had problem with python based apps	19:04
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yerga	disco_stu, it handles any source packages	19:04
disco_stu	yerga: maybe it was my idea then	19:05
yerga	I do the packaging with a Makefile, setup.py and debian/ stuff	19:05
yerga	the Makefile just run the setup.py	19:05
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lcuk	z4chh, look in the apt sources list inside scratchbox, it includes the sdk and sdktool repos which if you add to your device gives you apt-get git goodness capabilities	19:13
lcuk	as well as everything else	19:13
z4chh	thanks lcuk	19:13
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lcuk	arent u meant to be studying tho lol	19:13
z4chh	lunch break	19:14
lcuk	heh yeah right :P	19:14
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lcuk	n810 finally died on wifi :( (or just dc'ed)	19:15
z4chh	eh?	19:15
lcuk	i have the new router	19:16
lcuk	the n810 lasted for much longer	19:16
z4chh	no more adhoc?	19:16
lcuk	but its finally died	19:16
lcuk	no, powersaving on my laptop after an upgrade meant windows kept popping a balloon every 30 seconds saying "connected" "disconnected" etc	19:17
lcuk	and really pissed me off, so i went and got a router so it can deal with the connection requests ;)	19:17
z4chh	i figured out my n810 ssh connection refused problem	19:17
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lcuk	yeah? bad key or router config	19:17
z4chh	more like bad zach	19:18
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lcuk	did u reflash yourself/	19:18
z4chh	yes :\	19:18
lcuk	hh	19:18
lcuk	anyway i wasnt stopping, i will bbiab	19:18
z4chh	i don't have a usb port on my person though	19:18
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z4chh	anyways, i manually assign all ip's on my LAN..and i was accidently using an ip also used on my dad's windows laptop	19:20
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jeremiah_	X-Fade: ping	19:39
jeremiah_	X-Fade: No fires needed, or still need, putting out on garage?	19:39
radic	is obexftp available for maemo	19:39
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radic	libc6-dev: Depends: libc6 (= 2.5.0-1osso7) but 2.5.0-1osso10 is to be installed	20:00
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radic	Stskeeps: say anything that helps me	20:02
Stskeeps	radic: sorry, i'm not a personal support line :/	20:02
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z4chh	how do you turn off and keep off the scrollbar for osso_xterm?	20:03
radic	Stskeeps: i thought you are my supportline	20:04
Stskeeps	radic: 20 eur/hour	20:04
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RST38h	Sts: that's cheap	20:05
Stskeeps	my point is, anyone could try to answer here, targetting me exactly is a waste of time :P	20:05
Stskeeps	RST38h: meh, pays the bills	20:06
* Stskeeps is happy to help but on my own choice.		20:06
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yerga	X-Fade, ping!	20:10
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Stskeeps	wait	20:28
Stskeeps	wasn't today "Update on Maemo" at Nokia Developer Summit?	20:28
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yerga	Stskeeps, yes	20:31
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Stskeeps	any news? :P	20:31
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yerga	I haven't seen any	20:31
yerga	everything from there is symbian related	20:31
timeless_mbp	nokia developer summit?	20:32
timeless_mbp	what's that?	20:32
timeless_mbp	(asked the nokian)	20:32
Stskeeps	http://events.nokia.com/developersummit/	20:33
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disco_stu	yerga: is pypackager still available ?	20:38
yerga	disco_stu, I think so	20:39
yerga	but I don't know, I haven't used it	20:39
disco_stu	yerga: how do you make the package build ?	20:39
yerga	In scratchbox I do dpkg-buildpackage to create .tar.gz .dsc and .changes	20:40
yerga	and I upload it to the autobuidler	20:40
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Jaffa	re	20:42
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timeless_mbp	cool	20:46
timeless_mbp	so, RealPlayer Downloader.app lets me slurp flv files :) and RealPlayer.app can play them	20:46
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dantonic	hi anyone use xchat?	20:53
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timeless_mbp	oh wow	20:54
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timeless_mbp	so, they did announce two things at around 8:20-8:30/17:25	20:54
* timeless_mbp chuckles		20:55
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lbt	?	20:56
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: poh? (on train, slow connection, no video etc.)	20:56
slonopotamus	dantonic, yes	20:57
dantonic	slonopotamus are you able to use sounds?	20:58
dantonic	slonopotamus what's your configuration?	20:58
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slonopotamus	say smth	20:59
slonopotamus	dantonic, nope, doesn't work	21:01
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VDVsx	bahhhhhhhhhhhh: http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/009/04/dream_is_over_n97_processor_details_revealed.htm	21:26
VDVsx	good news for the tablets, will be the powerful nokia device :P	21:26
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lcuk	VDVsx, the cpu in my humble n810 is no slouch, it just wastes a lot of time doing graphics rendering that should be offloaded	21:30
lcuk	quote: Nokia N97 is indeed looks pretty fast with some nice transitions mainly due the code optimization but the trick is to optimize the software to run smooth on the best hardware and optimizing software to be useable on low-end hardware is similarly disappointing!	21:31
lcuk	thats wrong way round surely	21:31
GeneralAntilles	Nice	21:31
lcuk	optimized to work as well as possible on lowest hardware gives flawless perf on higher spec	21:31
GeneralAntilles	People shot me down when I said the next tablet would be Nokia's first OMAP3 device. :P	21:32
lcuk	hiya GAN	21:32
lcuk	heh, if it gets out the door first :P	21:32
Proteous	man, I was lookin forwared to the n97	21:32
lcuk	you should still	21:32
lcuk	its not a bad device	21:32
lcuk	they are just ripping it	21:32
VDVsx	lcuk, yap, my 5800 is also fast enough, but ultra cool graphics provided by a omap3 will be much better :P	21:33
lcuk	my finger went numb today :S i couldnt feel it for a couple of hours :S	21:33
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lcuk	omap3 doesnt provide ultra cool graphics? developers do :P	21:33
GeneralAntilles	It's interesting to see Samsung leading with the cutting-edge S60 devices.	21:33
lcuk	and my omap2 certainly feels good	21:33
VDVsx	lcuk, haa, right :P	21:34
VDVsx	lcuk, you know what I meant	21:34
VDVsx	:)	21:34
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radic	how to send a file via bluetooth from the terminal?	21:35
lcuk	bus or train terminal?	21:36
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irgsomething	LOL	21:36
z4chh	hey qwerty12	21:37
qwerty12	hi z4chh :)	21:37
lcuk	hey qwerty12 \o	21:37
qwerty12	hi lcuk :D	21:37
lcuk	you were missed terribly - we made a whole new "answer all problems" web knowledge domain	21:37
lcuk	just goto qwerty.com	21:37
GeneralAntilles	andre__, think a Talk product is at all worthwhile?	21:38
lcuk	you need to start a business :\|	21:38
radic	lcuk: from bash	21:38
z4chh	yo qwerty, do you know of a simple way to keep the scrollbar off for osso-xterm?	21:38
lcuk	radic, i dunno - ive heard about it being done	21:38
qwerty12	z4chh: you can run "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" but the setting isn't retained once you close it :/	21:39
z4chh	qwerty12, yeah ;p	21:39
lcuk	SEE!	21:39
z4chh	ive gone through about 5 files trying to automate that when i start xterm	21:40
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lcuk	z4chh, you can create an alieas so its just one short cmd i think	21:40
z4chh	like: Exec="/usr/bin/osso-xterm && gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" ..in osso-xterm.desktop	21:40
lcuk	or make a new .desktop file for console :O	21:41
* lcuk is thinking logically		21:41
qwerty12	z4chh: why not just add it to ~/.profile or somesuch?	21:41
qwerty12	Make it set 1 first and then 0	21:41
z4chh	hmm	21:42
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z4chh	Is there a problem with executing a file on (for n810) /media/mmc2?	21:46
qwerty12	/media/mmc2 is mounted noexec	21:47
z4chh	i seem to not be able to even with chmod a+x o_o	21:47
z4chh	ahh	21:47
z4chh	that's a problem o_o	21:47
qwerty12	grep the scripts in /usr/sbin for noexec	21:47
qwerty12	I can't remember off the top of my head which script mounts the memory carc	21:47
qwerty12	*card	21:47
qwerty12	And, also, you'll wanna make sure your mounted partition isn't vfat	21:48
z4chh	i can't just take off noexec in mtab? remount?	21:48
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qwerty12	"mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc2" may work but I'm not really sure	21:49
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z4chh	i got it	21:50
z4chh	i just edited /etc/mtab	21:50
qwerty12	Cool	21:50
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, yerga, nice video.	22:08
GeneralAntilles	That really is slick	22:08
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yerga	GeneralAntilles, thanks	22:09
lcuk	theres slick stuff?	22:09
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yerga	lcuk, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-D-J0Y7ufM	22:12
yerga	and this: http://bacolicio.us/	22:12
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lcuk	mmm yerga that looks great	22:17
lcuk	its nice to see apps behaving very slickly	22:18
GAN800	Scroll indicators are a page from Apple's book but really work well.	22:18
lcuk	its a page from a logical book	22:19
GAN800	Apple's logical book. ;)	22:19
johnx	good interface design is stealing what works well and dropping what doesn't	22:19
GAN800	Hey, sjgadsby	22:19
Stskeeps	ooh. i'll look forward to a rx-51.	22:19
sjgadsby	Hi, GAN800. What's up?	22:19
GAN800	Maemo 5 is finally going to be the 'usable' I've been waiting for since 2005	22:20
GAN800	Nothing interesting.	22:20
sjgadsby	So, when is "Bacon discussion" being added to the description of this channel?	22:20
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lcuk	this channel? im fishing to have the next nokia model named after it	22:20
GAN800	The first rule of bacon discussion is you never talk about bacon discussion.	22:21
GAN800	Rover	22:21
lcuk	nBacon	22:21
dantonic	hey what other different type of players are available for maemo? sox? what else?	22:21
GAN800	They could always do a charity model	22:22
johnx	dantonic, low-level cli stuff? or GUI stuff?	22:22
GAN800	Apple has those RED iPods, we could have a Bacon Edition.	22:22
lcuk	lol GAN800 the bacon model would be the heavy weight one with acna	22:22
dantonic	johnx low level... basically I'm trying to find a way to make sound work in Xchat	22:22
lcuk	acne	22:22
dantonic	johnx and nothing seems to work so far	22:22
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johnx	I think sox might be available or whatever "play" is part of	22:22
dantonic	johnx what's "play?"	22:23
johnx	I thought it was part of sox. let me check which package it's part of	22:23
johnx	well, sox is available	22:24
johnx	it's in extras I think	22:24
dantonic	johnx I think I have it I did apt-get install sox	22:25
dantonic	how would I test playing a sound file from the command line?	22:25
dantonic	sox /path/sound.wav ?	22:25
johnx	I don't know. type man sox into google	22:25
johnx	also, see if you have play available, I think it should do close to what you want	22:26
johnx	which play	22:26
johnx	^type that into xterm^	22:26
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dantonic	it finds play: /usr/bin/play	22:27
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johnx	then do play foo.wav	22:28
penguinbait	Alright, who turned ITT into the ugly stepchild	22:28
dantonic	johnx when Itry to play with the "play" command I get: Sorry, this wav file is in MPEG Layer 3 format.	22:28
penguinbait	the beating just went a little to far I think	22:28
dantonic	what am I missing?	22:28
johnx	dantonic, that's no wav. It's an mp3! :)	22:28
dantonic	but it's not it's a .wav file dont get it...	22:29
dantonic	it's the wav files that come with xchat	22:29
dantonic	hmm wait I tried another of the wav files and it worked	22:29
johnx	:)	22:30
GeneralAntilles	penguinbait, give it a few days.	22:30
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure what the purpose of the poll is.	22:32
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lcuk	my eyes, the goggles - they do nothing	22:33
dantonic	bah still doesnt work in xchat :(	22:33
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GeneralAntilles	Interesting, Modest plugins.	22:35
dantonic	what other players are available?	22:35
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GeneralAntilles	Why do all these blogs have comment systems if you can never freaking leave comments?	22:36
GeneralAntilles	Any Modest devs about?	22:36
* lcuk is very modest		22:37
johnx	dantonic, it works from the CLI, but not in xchat?	22:37
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, has thanks button been removed in the new theme?	22:38
* lcuk cant find it		22:38
GeneralAntilles	Are you logged in?	22:38
GeneralAntilles	It's in the same place it's always been.	22:38
penguinbait	GA, the purpose of the poll is to convince you all, THAT YOU MADE A MISTAKE	22:39
GeneralAntilles	penguinbait, you had an opportunity to do that months ago.	22:39
penguinbait	ITT is now ugly, you aint got no aliby	22:39
penguinbait	its ugly	22:39
penguinbait	Reaally, nobody told me	22:39
GeneralAntilles	But apparently you didn't care enough to do involve yourself in the process then, so now you really don't have much right to be this negative now.	22:39
penguinbait	GA is such a dick	22:40
penguinbait	thats negative	22:40
johnx	penguinbait, yeah, he's a dick, but he's also right	22:40
johnx	:)	22:40
johnx	GeneralAntilles, I mean that in the nicest way possible :)	22:40
GeneralAntilles	I'd say I'm an asshole and not a dick.	22:40
GeneralAntilles	But that's just me. ;)	22:40
RST38h	"...and after several failed attempts at outbreak containment, the area was firebombed."	22:40
dantonic	johnx sox converts audio files... it's not a player??	22:40
penguinbait	Where was I supposed to go to find out that I was supposed to put in my comments months ago	22:41
* RST38h 100% agrees with penguinbait		22:41
johnx	dantonic, it's a lot of things	22:41
RST38h	(on ITT being ugly)	22:41
dantonic	how do I use it to play?	22:41
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dantonic	the man only talks about converting files	22:41
VDVsx	yerga, I saw in your screencast that you also have strange colors and visual defects in the dialog and in other elements.	22:41
johnx	penguinbait, the same forum you're complaining about -or- this IRC channel -or- planet maemo	22:41
penguinbait	You say I misse3d my opportunity, thaat I didn't know existed	22:41
johnx	dantonic, the play command is part of the sox package	22:41
johnx	read the man page for "play"	22:41
GeneralAntilles	penguinbait, you did see the news about Talk months and months ago, right?	22:41
johnx	but you said it worked ...	22:42
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penguinbait	Seems to me that Maemo Council could do a better job at informing the community of where and when their input is needed	22:42
RST38h	GA: Current incarnation of talk.maemo.org has got Problems.	22:42
GeneralAntilles	There's no such thing as a "Maemo Council"	22:42
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I agree.	22:42
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, i saw it too, and i saw the maemo.org redesign come into shape, but i dont recall discussing the forum theming	22:42
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, but one of those problems is not "SCRAP THE WHOLE THING!"	22:42
penguinbait	MaemO Counc1l	22:42
penguinbait	MaemO Counc1l	22:42
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RST38h	GA: Nah, there is no reason to scrap it	22:42
GeneralAntilles	penguinbait, do you watch Planet?	22:42
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GeneralAntilles	penguinbait, because that's one of several places the website redesign was discussed.	22:43
penguinbait	just give us a them alternative that is somewhat similar to the old site	22:43
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RST38h	GA: But emulating the original ITT more closely by having the global view of all latest threads on the main page would be nice	22:43
lcuk	+1	22:43
lcuk	thats the principle difference for me	22:43
lcuk	the rest can be cured with css	22:43
Stskeeps	i miss my thanks count, as i'm a karma whore..	22:43
Stskeeps	:P	22:43
RST38h	GA: And using smaller fonts too - the current fonts do not allow to put all the necessary stuff at the visible part of the page	22:43
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, well, there's an active topics bar on the right.	22:44
* lcuk saw that bit of the discussion		22:44
lcuk	lol	22:44
Stskeeps	yeah	22:44
Stskeeps	i like the active topics one	22:44
RST38h	GA: But we do not want a bar	22:44
GeneralAntilles	The fonts match the rest of maemo.org	22:44
lcuk	speak for yourself	22:44
RST38h	GA: We just want an active topic view.	22:44
lcuk	i want a well stocked bar	22:44
* RST38h stocks lcuk's bar )		22:44
* lcuk drinks		22:44
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I'd recommend bookmarking/shortcutting this URL http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew	22:44
RST38h	GA: They do match, but this is detrimental to site's usability	22:45
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, active topics hardly seem like what this discussion is about.	22:45
penguinbait	I think the new site it as ugly as the n800 when I bought it	22:45
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, isnt the url gonna die anyway>	22:45
RST38h	GA: As I said, it makes no sense scrapping the whole thing	22:45
penguinbait	It did grow on me, but when I pick it up today, its an ugly device	22:45
GeneralAntilles	http:/talk.maemo.org/search.php?do=getnew	22:45
RST38h	GA: So, just listing the absolutely minimal amount of changes needed to make it usable	22:45
johnx	penguinbait, so you're saying that nokia has achieved great cross-platform branding? :D	22:46
* sjgadsby thinks GA needs more slashes in that URL.		22:46
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, yeah.	22:46
RST38h	No, GA, this getnew thing is pretty in a web designer kind of way but it is way less usable than the original ITT	22:46
johnx	also, if anyone uses autopager, I updated the autopager patter to support it :)	22:46
* GeneralAntilles sighs.		22:46
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, that new posts misses a load of stuff that IS listed in the active topics on the right	22:46
lcuk	im confused	22:46
RST38h	GA: The original ITT lets you see all this stuff WITHOUT scrolling	22:46
lcuk	i was trying to spot a thread id just posted in	22:47
RST38h	GA: This getnew thing has each topic in a nice bubble with some cute fonts but it is NOT the purpose of the page	22:47
lcuk	and its third on the right, but nowhere on the new stuff	22:47
lcuk	hmm	22:47
RST38h	GA: The purpose of the page is to see the most latest posts at one glance	22:47
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, go talk to Reggie.	22:48
GeneralAntilles	I really don't have any control over it.	22:48
RST38h	GA: I kinda suspect he will agree. Ok, will do.	22:48
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penguinbait	the new look was an upgrade for maemo.org, it was a downgrade to ITT	22:48
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sjgadsby	Threads can be active without being new to you, lcuk.	22:49
lcuk	looks very big and readable on a small device	22:49
johnx	his poll isn't going so well	22:49
RST38h	here, you pissed off penguinbait.	22:49
RST38h	=)	22:49
GeneralAntilles	Fine by me.	22:49
lcuk	sjgadsby, i had a post from 16mins ago	22:49
GeneralAntilles	He's the one that came in spewing bile.	22:49
lcuk	that is not listed on new stuff	22:49
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lcuk	which shows back about 4 hours	22:49
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, have you already read it?	22:49
RST38h	GA: which basically means he got pissed BEFORE coming here =)	22:49
GeneralAntilles	New posts shows unread threads.	22:49
sjgadsby	lcuk: Yes, but if you're the last poster, then you've seen everything in the thread.	22:49
lcuk	yeah but thats not what i want	22:49
GeneralAntilles	If you want all threads updated recently, you want Today's Posts	22:50
lcuk	the old one didnt care whether i had seen it before	22:50
lcuk	it was just the latest things	22:50
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily	22:50
lcuk	thats it!	22:50
lcuk	now all we need do is css the font and color down	22:50
lcuk	and we have the original itt frontpage!	22:50
dantonic	johnx thanks for your help... however can't get it to work...	22:51
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johnx	dantonic, you said it worked from the commandline? I don't understand what you're saying isn't working ...	22:51
RST38h	GA: Notice that it shows at most 4 (four) topics	22:51
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RST38h	GA: On a standard 1280x800 display	22:52
lcuk	RST38h, that latest link shows that you want	22:52
RST38h	GA: But it does show lots and lots of eyecandy	22:52
dantonic	johnx yeah it does but it doesnt work in xchat :(	22:52
lcuk	wrong font but the info is there	22:52
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johnx	dantonic, playing the same file as from the commandline? are you providing the whole path?	22:52
RST38h	lcuk: Yea, but the layout still makes it only show 4 entries without scrolling	22:52
dantonic	I think so... I'm providing /usr/bin/play	22:52
johnx	remember that capitalization matters	22:52
lcuk	well im just goin on userstyles.org and using the stylish plugin for firefox i will try and cure that	22:53
johnx	and you're not trying to play the "fake" .wavs that came with xchat?	22:53
dantonic	trying the same path I use in the terminal to play the same file	22:53
* lcuk can see the big readable fonts working on n810		22:53
dantonic	let me play with it some more	22:53
johnx	dantonic, I think you'd have the same problem with any commandline audio player	22:54
lcuk	but you are right RST38h on desktop theres no need	22:54
johnx	people use "play" in desktop xchat all the time	22:54
johnx	dantonic, one more idea: try running xchat from an xterm, then it should spit out an error if it fails to use play	22:54
dantonic	johnx good idea let me try	22:55
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ShadowJK	huh, what's this about "big fonts" and "small device", surely on small device you want smaller fonts so that you don't need to scroll around	22:56
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lcuk	have you seen the fremantle videos? scrolling looks fun!	22:56
RST38h	lcuk,johnx,qwerty: BTW , could you drop your $.02 on this issue: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4369	22:57
ShadowJK	no, but if it's like tear on N8x0, then it gets old and annoying once the touchscreen is >6months old ;)	22:57
lcuk	ShadowJK, not to me, i have big fast super scrolling too	22:57
RST38h	My guess is that if it is not being publically discussed, the web site maintainer will quietly close or ignore the bug report	22:57
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dantonic	well... johnx now it seems to work...	22:58
dantonic	didnt really do anything...	22:58
johnx	:)	22:58
dantonic	just started from the terminal	22:58
dantonic	LOL	22:58
johnx	that's the way it always goes	22:58
johnx	glad it works	22:58
ShadowJK	lcuk, I meant when touchscreen registers drag as a series of clicks with random intervals, the kinetic scrolling sometimes decides to send the page scrolling at lightspeed :-)	22:58
dantonic	LOL cool thanks so much man really appreciate it	22:58
lcuk	ShadowJK, thats a bad algorythm then	22:59
* RST38h spends lots of effort to AVOID kinetic scrolling in Tear now		22:59
johnx	dantonic, no problem. enjoy your xchat with sound effects. I'll try to hilight you as much as I can so you can enjoy them :>	22:59
RST38h	it's not reliable at all	22:59
lcuk	because if you are still moving a certain amount and a certain speed the series of small strokes should be interpretted correctly	22:59
ShadowJK	RST38h, use the dpad, it's actually useful for scrolling in tear (unlike microb)	22:59
* johnx applied the echowb theme and never went back		22:59
ShadowJK	lcuk, actually it should probably reset its algorithm on mousebutton-up event or whatever event it gets	23:00
lcuk	RST38h, you have mentioned the badness of the kinetic there	23:00
RST38h	Shadow: dpad is very unreliable and uncomfortable for me =(	23:00
RST38h	lcuk: Yea	23:00
lcuk	on mouse up it should use the steps it has been given to "energize" the stroke you made	23:00
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ShadowJK	hm, I haven't experienced any reliability issues with the dpad on my N8x0... On my E70, however... :)	23:00
lcuk	like pushing a roundabout	23:00
RST38h	Shadow: On E70 it simply wears out	23:01
ShadowJK	lcuk, oh right	23:01
lcuk	little bursts shouldnt send it into orbit it should just keep it going	23:01
RST38h	Shadow: there are no uncomfortability problems though	23:01
lcuk	i sense though this isnt what happens outside of liqbase ;)	23:01
ShadowJK	:)	23:01
ShadowJK	oh well	23:01
RST38h	Shadow: On N810, the dpad is a think metal band stuck right underneath the upper half of the device and lacking tactile feedback	23:01
RST38h	s/think/thin	23:02
* ShadowJK has >1yr left on his N810's warranty :D		23:02
ShadowJK	Yeah I have both N800 and N810	23:02
lcuk	RST38h, im not posting in the bug topic cos its about the overall website and not specifically about talk	23:02
ShadowJK	the N800 dpad is nicer to use, but I often press the back/escape key by mistake	23:02
lcuk	i LIKE the rest of the site	23:02
ShadowJK	N810 dpad isn't as nice to use, but I have no problems in comfort or in using it	23:02
RST38h	lcuk: Yea, it is specifically about a problem with the site	23:03
dantonic	haha :)	23:03
RST38h	lcuk: For some reason the main page and the downloads page show those two promoted apps instead of actual content	23:03
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RST38h	lcuk: If this "feature" can somehow be argued for at the main page, why it is done to Downloads completely escapes me	23:04
lcuk	i dunno RST38h im not that bothered about the whole site i just dont wanna miss my posts and stuff :$	23:05
dantonic	hey johnx what is the standard media player? how do I find the path to that player?	23:05
dantonic	the one that comes with the tablet?	23:05
dantonic	how would I call that player to play a sound?	23:05
johnx	with dbus-send	23:06
johnx	but I think it would pull up the whole GUI	23:06
johnx	maybe mplayer would be best	23:06
johnx	<- duh, totally didn't think about mplayer	23:06
RST38h	lcuk: I often checked Downloads section on the old site =(	23:08
RST38h	lcuk: now it is hidden somewhere underneath =(	23:08
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jeremiah_	Installing the fremantle beta, wheee	23:13
Stskeeps	woo	23:13
jeremiah_	And after that, Mer .13!	23:14
jeremiah_	Or is it just 13	23:14
Stskeeps	0.13 i gues	23:14
Stskeeps	s	23:14
Stskeeps	right now it looks like a 21.74% though (100% is day-to-day usable) :P	23:14
jeremiah_	So the stable version is 12?	23:15
lcuk	awww Stskeeps @ mathematical specifics	23:15
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: nah, the day-to-day stable version is 1.0	23:16
Stskeeps	we're not there yet :)	23:16
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, give me a non-crap XServer and I'll up that number. ;)	23:16
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: in progress :P	23:17
GeneralAntilles	A finger keyboard, too.	23:17
Stskeeps	waiting for nokia	23:17
Stskeeps	:P	23:17
Stskeeps	give me gtk coders and i'll give you gold	23:17
Stskeeps	:P	23:17
GeneralAntilles	I demand a refund!	23:17
GeneralAntilles	ohwait	23:17
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dantonic	hey johnx how do you check which repository contains a program that you have installed? is there a command for that?	23:19
lcuk	apt-cache search [something]	23:19
johnx	apt-cache policy package	23:19
lcuk	ahh different	23:19
johnx	policy tells you the repo	23:20
GeneralAntilles	Engadget whores!	23:20
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Stskeeps	mm?	23:20
GeneralAntilles	They picked up the beta story from Brighthand instead of my report when it came out . . .	23:20
johnx	hey Omegamoon :)	23:20
dantonic	ok ty	23:21
qwerty12_N800	dantonic: are you using xchat 2.8.6?	23:21
dantonic	ya	23:21
GeneralAntilles	I wish news sites would just link to the original announcements.	23:21
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GeneralAntilles	Instead of taking you through a wild ride of a half-dozen different bloggers	23:21
dantonic	qwerty12_N800 why did you have the same problem?	23:22
qwerty12_N800	dantonic: good, I have control over that build :p. i'll see i've got time to make xchat just play the sound straight & upload a new build	23:22
RST38h	GA: Engadget? =)	23:22
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dantonic	qwerty12_N800 oh great! did you read how we fixed it just now?	23:23
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dantonic	qwerty12_N800 would you make it use sox?	23:23
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qwerty12_N800	dantonic: nah, libhildon has a function for playing sounds w/out the use of an external program	23:23
dantonic	qwerty12_N800 what's the function? can I use it instead of sox?	23:24
dantonic	qwerty12_N800 how would I call it in xchat?	23:24
qwerty12_N800	nah, it's something I need to do	23:24
dantonic	ok cool	23:24
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dantonic	u doing it right now? :P	23:24
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dantonic	I was wondering though... if I wanted to call the OS media player to play the file... how would I do that? where is it located?	23:25
dantonic	how would I call the NIT media player to play a file from the command line?	23:25
jeremiah_	Found a bug.	23:25
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johnx	dantonic, you could maybe use gstreamer	23:26
johnx	if you called the media player with dbus it would pop up the whole GUI	23:26
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dantonic	oh... but like when canola for example calls the media player.. how does it do it without the gui?	23:26
johnx	it's just using the gstreamer part	23:27
dantonic	johnx how does that work? what's the syntax?	23:27
johnx	the exact command to call is a little complicated	23:27
qwerty12_N800	uses the osso-media-server directly (and no, I dunno how it's done)	23:27
dantonic	ah	23:28
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dantonic	man now I wanna know how it's done	23:29
dantonic	I'm gonna go bug the people in the canola channel	23:29
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johnx	dantonic, or google gstreamer command line	23:31
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Omegamoon	johnx: good evening :-)	23:32
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johnx	:) I got a working x server ... kinda, but it's not reliable, and I ended up just going with x.org	23:33
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* xnt wants to kill the idiot who made the fedora installer		23:58
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xnt	took me 3 HOURS to boot back into ubuntu, it didn't find ubuntu-grub, and that crap tried to chainload ubuntu-grub >:(	23:59

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