IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-03-19

b-manStskeeps: wow 0.o extremely nice!! :D00:00
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* b-man drewls while looking at the screenshot00:00
Stskeepsb-man: that's a mockup but we're getting closer to it actually00:00
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b-manthat's really nice :)00:01
Stskeepsthanks to zenvoid and wazd :)00:01
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b-manbrilliant!! :D00:02
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xntb-man: im making my own mockup, the Idea is to have two UI's one for the desktop (kde/gnome/hildon mix) and the nit one (hildon/the radikal mockup/jaaz's mockup)00:02
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b-manxnt: nice :)00:03
xnt* tabletui's mockup00:03
derflardman: Actually decoding a QR code is relatively fast.00:03
derfIt's _finding_ it that takes forever.00:03
b-manxnt: :)00:03
* xnt is going to install ubuntu right now :)00:04
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xntso far so good :)00:07
xntb-man btw, is it possible to install hildon in ubuntu?00:08
lardmanderf: ok00:08
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b-manxnt: not quite yet00:09
lardmanderf: I might try starting threads for the QR and dtmx decoders, hopefully then the ui will remain responsive00:09
b-manbut you could install ubuntu-mid - wich has it's own version of hildon :)00:09
xntDamn! I got an EOF after ./lib/ NOOOO!00:09
* b-man gose nutz00:10
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xntb-man did you try downloading it from your maemobox, and extracting it ?00:10
b-mani'm trying it now00:10
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derflardman: Locating the code could probably be sped up a lot, but doing it without sacrificing its detection ability is a hard problem.00:11
derf(and I want to kill whoever decided that "Double QR" was a good idea)00:12
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lardmananyone know if libgd is available?00:14
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lardmanah not to worry, I'm sure gnuplot will work without it00:16
xntb-man: whats wrong with the tarball?00:17
b-mani'm looking into it now - it's allmost done downloading00:18
xntok :)00:18
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neatojonesJaffa, ping (auto-hildonization)00:19
b-manhay, neatojones :)00:19
b-mani'm guessing that it probibly got corrupted when my upload got interupted :( - but i haven't confermed that yet00:20
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xntb-man: :(00:20
xntb-man: what do you mean by @xnt00:21
neatojoneswhat's up b-man00:21
lardmanis there a Debianism to not make docs?00:21
lcuki thought that was normal developer practice :D00:22
b-manxnt: to let neatojones know that i was talking to you in the 2nd response00:22
Stskeepslardman: export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nodocs" .. i think00:22
lardmanStskeeps: cool, thanks00:22
xntoh  ok00:22
qwerty12_N800if the package in question supports it00:22
b-manneatojones: i think i allmost have the ubuntu-n8x0 2.2 image up :)00:23
lardmancan I comment the dh_installdocs lines or something like that?00:23
xntb-man:  :)00:23
neatojonesNice.  I'll give it a shot later.00:23
qwerty12_N800lardman: nah, just installs docs that have already been made00:23
* b-man gets done and tests out the archive00:24
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lardmanok, so where is the doc making actually called frrm?00:24
neatojonesI need someone who's really good with building debs to help me figure out why I keep getting problems with some part of my e17 packages00:24
* xnt is waiting patiently :)00:24
qwerty12_N800lardman: configure scripts00:24
neatojonesI think I've figured most of it out....but there are a few things that I just can't figure out.00:25
* b-man waches as streams of filenames stream accros the screen00:26
qwerty12_N800lardman: in times of desperation, i have been known to remove "docs" from SUBDIRS in & configure (if there is not a flag for not doing so already)00:26
z4chhWOOHOOO MAEMO GOT IN!!!!!00:27
* z4chh dances00:27
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* z4chh does a fist pump00:27
lardman curious00:28
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Stskeepslardman: doctools devkit00:30
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b-manxnt: i think i fixed it - it turned out that it was just 0.999% away from being fully uploaded - my ftp client malfunctioned for some odd reason00:31
* xnt formats his ext3 partition00:31
* b-man hopes he fixed it XD00:31
xntso its uploaded?00:31
lardmanStskeeps: I think I have that installed anyway00:31
lardmannot to worry, have hacked the innards of the rules file, fingers crossed00:32
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b-manxnt: yes, it's now (fully) uploaded XD00:33
* xnt extracts00:33
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* xnt downloads *then* untars00:33
b-mani was going to say - you have a fu*k*ng fast connection XD00:34
xnteta 5seconds00:34
lardmanhmm, interesting demo screenshot linked from the gnuplot page :)
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xntb-man: lol, but I can't host a webserver (port 80 blocked), but for that I have dreamhost :)00:35
Stskeepslardman: hah00:35
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lardmanStskeeps: I've been wasting my time with phase unwrapping diagrams!00:36
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Stskeepsyes, there's prettier curves in nature00:36
* xnt watches streams of filenames scroll on my screen :P00:36
qwerty12_N800Maths can be fun?00:36
xntb-man: so untar, then what?00:36
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lcuklardman, your sketches are intruiging to me, i would like to subscribe to your newsletter! :D00:37
b-manapt-get install sys-env-x - to get the rest of the basic bootable system with xorg00:37
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xntwhen? after I boot into it?00:37
xntI boot into it with bootmenu>00:38
lardmanlcuk: that's the problem with liqsketch, it remembers *everything*!00:38
xnt* > = ?00:38
b-manyou will need to install a desktop first00:38
* lardman hates it when the Debian build process fails right at the end00:38
b-manunless you want the console XD00:38
lcuklardman, thats why i need to be location aware (or context)00:38
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xntb-man, so If I boot into it now, I get a console?00:39
lcuki want to login to the system with a blank sketch password00:39
lcukdepending on the password i enter a different dataset00:39
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lcuktheres no visible clue i did something different00:39
b-manxnt: if you boot into it now, without sys-env-base or x, it will just reboot00:39
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* b-man eats dinner00:40
lardmanI've always thought they should do that for ATMs, 2 PIN numbers, one for normal use, the other for potential muggers00:40
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b-mani'll be back00:40
xntso I chroot into it?00:40
z4chhb-man, what's for dinner? :D00:40
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xntb-man: WAIT00:40
z4chhxnt, you wanted some food to? :D00:40
b-man|awayz4chh: pasta00:40
xntno, I wanted to know what to do after I untar it?00:40
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b-man|awaywith lots of sauce00:41
lardmanmmm, making me hungry again00:41
lcuklardman, a duress code00:42
xntb-man|away: ok I think I got it :)00:42
* xnt is chrooting :)00:42
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lardmangood good, gnuplot packaged ok00:43
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lcukdont sound so surprised!00:43
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lardmanaaargh, slice again!00:48
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lardman~pray that Octave stops using slice00:55
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lardmaninfobot: do you not pray!?00:55
infobotyes, I not pray!.00:55
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b-mani'm back :D01:03
b-maninfobot: do you love to party!?01:04
b-manhmm XP01:04
infobotyes, I love to party!.01:04
xntb-man : I do everything in the second post?01:04
b-manin this image, you should only need to install sys-env-x to have a bootable base system01:05
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xntso chroot in and run apt-get install sys-env-x01:06
xntok :)01:06
* b-man will make a new thread about the newly released 2.2 image when he gets the chance ;)01:06
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xntholy crap thats a lot of packages, b0man hit Y?01:07
xnt255 to be newly installed01:07
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xnt** b-man01:08
lardmanwhich device is the external card on the n81001:08
xntnot b0man :P damn typos01:08
xntlardman: on mine its mmcblk1p*01:09
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xntrzr: hi01:09
* xnt hits Y :P01:10
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xntok brb01:11
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b-manxnt: i'm back again XP - my connection is crappy today01:15
b-mansorry :P01:16
rzrhi xnt|Away *01:17
z4chhanyone seen morpheuz (spelled something like that)?01:18
lbtanyone here use garage git?01:18
lcuklardman, before you run off, gnite :)01:18
b-manxnt: btw, while it's still downloading, i'd suggest that you mount /proc, /tmp, /dev/pts and, /dev in a new terminal window so dpkg can run properly01:18
b-manwhile configuring the packages01:19
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lbtI asked Ferenc for access a while back and never chased up... is there another way to get git for my project01:20
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lardmanlcuk: lol01:20
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threshlbt: so you need git hosting or git hosting on garage?01:21
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lbtideally on garage...01:22
lbtbut do you know somewhere I could push to and then tidy-up/delete when I get garage working01:22
threshsure, :)01:23
threshi also use assembla01:23
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pinbackstill trying to do the n800 jaunty thing01:23
thresherr, of course, also github01:23
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pinbackanyone get b-mans new rootfs to work?01:24
lbtta - never looked b4 :)01:24
xnt|Awaypinback: im installing it right now :P01:25
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pinbackxnt - its doesnt have a /linuxrc file?01:25
xnt|Awayits uploaded01:25
xnt|Awayrm the old tarball, and redownload01:25
pinbackok, I'll retry01:25
* xnt|Away is *Away*01:25
pinbackwhere should linuxrc reside?01:27
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pinbacksshing to my n800 over wifi is actually a better experience than sshing to my HP DL785 8-CPU (32-core) server in London01:30
b-manpinback: it'l have a /linuxrc file after sys-env-x installation ;)01:31
pinbackah - is there a new step?01:31
xntpinback: lol01:31
pinbacklast time I tried to install sys-env-x it moaned about a bunch of stuff01:31
b-manpinback: yup, a entirely new and muc more practical way to install the base system01:32
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pinbackdo I install that in maemo or ubuntu?01:32
lardmanhmm, does one have to explicitly tell the linker to link libg2c?01:32
b-manubuntu :P01:32
pinbackso I need to do an apt-get install sys-env-x  after untarring?01:32
xntb-man: do I still have to uninstall the xserver-xorg-input-synaptics?01:32
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b-manxserver-xorg-tslib takes care of that01:33
pinbackok its untarred anything more before reboot?01:33
xntb-man: so install sys-env-x and reboot?01:33
pinbackI need to install sys-env-x:?01:34
b-manpinback, xnt, yes, apt-get install sys-env-x and then install a desktop env if you want01:34
xntpinback: yea I think so01:34
xntubuntu-desktop :D01:34
b-manpinback: YES01:34
pinbackin maemo?01:34
b-manxnt: shure :D01:34
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xntno chroot into the ubuntu install (I think)01:34
b-manpinback: in ubuntu01:35
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pinbackI get like a zillion unmet dependencies01:35
pinback  sys-env-x: Depends: sys-env-base but it is not going to be installed01:35
pinback             Depends: ubuntu-omap-fb-splash but it is not going to be installed01:35
pinback             Depends: tablet-x (>= 1.8ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed01:35
b-manxnt isn't having that issue01:35
* b-man screams01:35
xntpinback still has problems01:35
xntnp here :P01:36
pinbackwhy wont it install the dependencies?01:36
xntb-man: no need to scream, lol01:36
xntpinback: I don't know :(01:36
xntdo apt-get update, I had an unmet dep before01:37
xntand that fixed it01:37
b-manoh :)01:37
pinbackwhat repo do these live in?01:37
* b-man is releaved01:37
* Stskeeps goes to bed01:37
b-manpinback: ubuntu-n8x0, deblet, and mer01:37
xntbmans maemo box, and ubuntu ports (I think)01:37
xntStskeeps: bye01:37
b-manSee ya Stskeeps01:38
pinbackwhats the ubuntu ports repo?01:38
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b-manthat's the acctual ubuntu jaunty repo01:39
b-man*actual :P01:39
pinbackyes whats the sources.lst entry?01:39
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b-mandeb jaunty main restricted universe multiverse01:40
b-mandeb-src jaunty main restricted universe multiverse01:40
lbtthresh: ta;h=refs/heads/gestures01:41
xntb-man: how long is installing sys-env-x going to take?01:41
Proteouson your 28.8 kbps modem, like 4 days01:41
Proteoushope you don't get charged by the minute01:41
b-man20-45 minutes01:42
threshlbt: cool!01:42
xntb-man: thanks01:42
threshlbt: nice tool, too. will install! :)01:42
xntProteous: im on fios :P01:42
b-mannp :)01:42
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pinbackmy repo list is ridiculously long now - updating takes minutes01:43
lbtthresh: just make sure you don't have qt4.5 yet...01:43
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xntirssi freezes at school :P, going to switch to xchat01:44
b-manat least your school doesn't block you from installing an irc client01:44
pinbackok - only 2 missing dependencies now:01:45
xntcompiz works on the school computers, lol, my ss teacher shouted what the hell is that, when he saw the cube :P01:45
pinback  sys-env-x: Depends: sys-env-base but it is not going to be installed01:45
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pinback             Depends: tablet-x (>= 1.8ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed01:45
b-manxnt: lol01:45
Mouseyso does this mean there's an ARM branch of ubuntu now?01:45
Mouseylike debian armle and be?01:45
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b-manpinback: hmm01:45
b-manhold on01:45
xntMousey: Yeah , I think so01:46
Mouseyxnt: wee!01:46
b-man@pinback XD01:46
* lardman wonders how to package up Octave now not having used Debian tools to build it01:46
* xnt is bored01:46
t-nori have a probleme when i run "apt-get upgrade" on my flashed N810, it reboot when it install maemo-launcher and it don't boot anymore01:47
b-manpinback: works fine for me01:47
pinbackwhat is tablet-x ? I think thats tghe problem01:47
t-nori have to recopy the OS in the flash to the SD card to boot on SD01:47
b-manpinback: can you try running apt-get update again?01:48
pinbackyup will retry01:48
pinbackIm definately mising a repo someplace01:48
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b-manpinback: can you pastebin your sources.list file?01:49
b-mangoogle it ;)01:50
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pinbackbetter still can you paste yours?02:00
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xntis removing sysv-rc bad in fremantle?02:01
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b-manpinback: ....are you using maemo's sources.list? XD02:01
pinbackI have no idea - I accumulated them over time02:01
* b-man posts the right sourcees.list file on pastebin02:02
xntis this bad?
StsN800pinback, are you even doing this inside the chroot? ..02:03
xntbtw to b-man, this is fremantle not ubuntu, :P02:03
pinbackchroot? doh! :-)02:03
b-manxnt: this is ubuntu :P02:04
b-man(ubuntu 9.04 - jaunty)02:04
xntno that screenshot :P, im trying out fremantle02:04
xntbtw update on sys-env-x install
b-manoh, never mind then XP02:04
xntnevermnid, ITS DONE!!!02:05
* xnt faints02:05
StsN800i have officially lost my faith in humanity for tonight. :goes to  sleep:02:05
xntok now what02:05
xntStsN800: bye02:05
b-manStsN800: lol02:05
xntb-man: now what02:05
pinbackoooo - zillion new packages need installed02:06
pinbackthis is good right?02:06
lardmannight all02:06
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b-manxnt: test it out02:06
xnt :D02:06
xntnow reboot, right?02:07
b-mani ment boot XD02:07
pinbackNeed to get 76.4MB of archives. After this operation, 267MB of additional disk space will be used.02:07
pinbackthis is cool right?02:07
xntpinstack: I got the exact same amount :P02:07
xnthit Y02:07
* xnt is rebooting02:08
pinbackdone - installing02:08
* b-man crosses his fingers02:08
z4chhxnt, what theme is that?02:08
pinbackbeen working with Unix systems for ~20yrs and this install is the first time I used chroot :-)02:09
z4chhthat looks like xfce02:09
practisevoodooaw soooo cool! ubuntu on n800!02:09
b-manyup :D02:09
practisevoodooway too much hassle to actually install at the moment02:09
pinbackI see some 404 errors while its installing sys-env-x02:09
b-manpinback: longer than i've been around XD02:10
xntpinback: apt-get update02:10
xntthat fixed it for me :P02:10
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xntb-man: crap! I don't have  bootmenu anymore!, where do I get it?02:10
b-manyou'll need to reboot02:11
xntok :)02:11
* b-man needs to do something02:11
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pinbackdo we really need /etc/apt/sources.lst - shouldnt there be a Google Repo or something?02:12
xntpinstack: where is the deb files for the bootmenu?02:13
xnt* are02:13
pinbackI used the .install file:
xntok thanks, btww I have to eat dinner, so ill do this from my nit :)02:14
xnt* btw02:14
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GeneralAntillesOK, Ubuntu 8.10 looks a lot nicer than 8.04.02:14
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* b-man reboots his tablet02:16
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pinbackUbuntu 8.10 known issues:
pinbackMouse thing was a bummer for me02:19
* wazd thinks that he just crapped his pants playing Dead Space02:19
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practisevoodoois there a way to increase the size of the program instal area?02:25
lcukpractisevoodoo, not simply, you can clean out a lot of unrequired files though02:25
practisevoodooyou mean just uninstal stuff?02:26
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tank-manyou can install everything to a larger sdhc card02:31
jaem_N810b-man: ping!02:31
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b-manjeam: pong02:32
jaem_N810did mine ears hear of a workaround for sound on Ubuntu? (even a poor one?)02:33
b-mannot yet :(02:34
* b-man eatss some cake02:34
neatojonesjaem:  Try searching iTT for the deblet way.02:34
neatojonesI heard it worked.02:34
b-man*eats :P02:34
jaem_N810also, KDE pkgs are out for arm, but they bumped the revision, and they haven't pushed half of the new revision yet02:34
* jaem_N810 whips the buildbots02:35
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jaem_N810"build harder!"02:36
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jaem_N810because of that, I can't install things properly without using the Massive Metapackage of Massive02:37
pinbacklol - I hope I didnt mistype my password when sys-x-env install prompted me02:37
jaem_N810which pulls in lots I don't want :(02:37
xntb-man: ubuntu-desktop is broken :(02:37
neatojonesI haven't tried it, but I've heard it works.02:38
jaem_N810xnt: version mismatches?02:38
pinbackxnt: what desktop did you install?02:39
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jaem_N810pinback: ubuntu-desktop == GNOME02:39
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xntapt-get install ubuntu-desktop02:39
pinbackooo - I thought you had a choice02:39
jaem_N810pinback, you do02:39
b-manxnt: what errors did you incounter?02:39
jaem_N810but stock Ubuntu uses GNOME02:40
jaem_N810hence the metapackage02:40
neatojonesWe really need to find a way to use MamonaImageCreatory for Ubuntu/Mer02:40
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neatojonesit would allow us to extract the closed source components from Maemo02:41
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* jaem_N810 curses Arch Linux and their lack of arches02:42
jaem_N810architectures*, that is02:42
jaem_N810it would be nice on the NITs02:42
xntb-man: , :(02:43
jaem_N810b-man: if I glue an Atom to my N810, I can run x86 code, right? :D02:44
b-manshure XD02:44
xntjaem_N810: that made me lol02:44
jaem_N810will it impact power consumption?02:44
jaem_N810or give me superpowers?02:44
pinbackyay - sys-env-x is installed!!! :-) now what?02:44
* xnt is very sad right now :(02:44
* jaem_N810 smacks xnt over the head with the happy stick02:45
b-manxnt: don't worrie ;)02:45
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pinbackdo I reboot first or ap-get desktop?02:45
xntb-man. jaem: thanks, lol, ubuntu-desktop is broken02:45
jaem_N810pinback: you'd probably want to install your desktop first02:45
xntpinback try apt-get install ubuntu-desktop02:45
b-mani'll try and fix that ;)02:45
pinbackok - lets see what happens02:46
xntpinback: wati02:46
jaem_N810LXDE is more lightweight than GNOME - you could give that a try02:46
* pinback almost hit enter02:46
xntapt-get install ubuntu-desktop matchbox-keyboard02:46
xntthats just in case you have a n800 (no kb)02:46
pinbackthat it?02:46
pinbackyup I do02:46
xntthen make a bootmenu entry02:47
pinbackalready got one02:47
jaem_N810xnt, b-man: is there a popup OSK like the one in hildon02:47
xntpinback: ok02:47
pinbackI got the same error as you xnt02:47
jaem_N810I have an N810, but I was curious02:47
pinbackzillion Depens...02:47
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jaem_N810pinback, xnt: check the timestamps on the pkgs in the repos02:48
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jaem_N810maybe they're doing a rebuild of some other pkgs too02:48
tank-manHi, I am trying to find my N800 in my house, I can ssh and I have the idea of playing a sound file from the commandline to find my device. Any Ideas?02:49
jaem_N810KDE pkgs are in-progress02:49
pinbackxnt: whats that for?02:49
jaem_N810mplayer can be used from cli, right?02:49
xntjaem: I have a N810, yea matchbox-keyboard is the soft kb02:49
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tank-manoh yea thanks jaem_N81002:49
xnttank-man: apt-get install sox, if you can02:49
jaem_N810xnt: but you have to manually open and close it,right?02:49
tank-mancan't apt-get cause it says the gui package manager is open02:49
xntkillall hildon-application-manager02:50
xntjaem: it starts at boot02:50
pinbackxnt: any ideas how to fix the desktop?02:50
xntb-man is trying to fix it :)02:51
jaem_N810b-man: the main thread said installing Mer xkb-data fixes Fn key02:52
* xnt wants his ubuntu-n810, but is patient :)02:52
jaem_N810I already had it installed, and it didn't work, last I checked02:52
jaem_N810xnt: me too, but I'm slightly less patient02:52
* pinback is totally impatient02:52
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jaem_N810b-man's doing an excellent job, though02:52
jaem_N810what the heck? If I type -> at the end of the msg entry box in xchat, focus jumps to the topic02:53
jaem_N810which is why I borked it earlier, without noticing02:53
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jaem_N810have you folks seen any good deals on BT folding keyboards?02:54
jaem_N810"good" as in "affordable on a student budget"02:54
jaem_N810b-man: I meant right-arrow on the D-pad02:55
b-manoh, lol02:55
* jaem_N810 laughs at b-man02:55
* xnt presses right arrow on his n810 :P02:56
b-manhmm... apparently ubuntu-desktop is broken in the ubuntu jaunty repositorys 0o nooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!02:56
jaem_N810b-man: to start KDE with KDM, it's just the normal inittab setting and all that, right?02:56
xntb-man: any way to fix it?02:57
b-manapt-get install tablet-kdm-autologin - i believe02:57
pinbackjaem: get a nice rubber one for $1002:57
b-manxnt: not shure02:57
pinbackwith a usb connection02:57
jaem_N810ah... but what if I don't want it to login in automatically02:57
jaem_N810pinback: I could, but they're pretty junky, are hard to type on, and don't roll small enough02:58
b-mankdm will stsrt automaticly then02:58
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jaem_N810oh right - apt automagically sets that up, doesn't it02:58
jaem_N810b-man: I'd rather have a password02:59
xntlol, everyone asks to see my nit, so I put the passcode lock, I could just setup a kb shortcut in ubuntu , to lock the screen02:59
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xnt* seem my nit at school02:59
b-manoh lol03:00
xntrepost: lol, everyone at asks to see my nit, so I put the passcode lock, I could just setup a kb shortcut in ubuntu , to lock the screen03:00
Pavlovis there a windows flasher tool?03:00
xntbtw b-man, is it possible to lock the screen like in maemo, on ubuntu03:00
jaem_N810pavlov: yes, but it's slow as heck03:00
jaem_N810in my experience03:00
pinbackNokia BT keyboard is $60 inc ship on Amazon03:01
b-manxnt: yes03:01
jaem_N810check the Nokia website, under support03:01
b-mansuspend mode03:01
jaem_N810pinback: USD?03:01
xntb-man: how fast is it?03:01
xntffrom on to suspens03:01
b-manpritty fast03:01
xnt* suspend03:01
jaem_N810b-man: do you mean suspend as in s2ram, or "idle" like in Maemo03:01
jaem_N810pinback: I think I saw that03:02
jaem_N810it looked nice03:02
xntso I can map it to the lock slider on my n810 to suspend?03:02
jaem_N810but a bit more than I can afford right now03:02
b-manjeam: like in maemo03:02
pinbackI got an igo slim for $30 on sale once but they all seem to be ~$90 now03:02
jaem_N810b-man: it's jaem* :P03:02
xntb-man: how long does your battery last in ubuntu?03:02
* b-man can conferm ubuntu-desktop is broken in ubuntu 9.04 upstream btw :(03:02
pinbackbman: whats the plan with ubuntu-desktop? is there any hope?03:03
jaem_N810pinback: someon on itT was selling an N800 bundle with the IGO03:03
b-manpinback: i'm shure it's just a temporary problem03:03
jaem_N810I dropped him a PM to see if I could just get the kbd, but I haven't heard back03:03
b-manit'l be back ;)03:03
pinbackapt0get update and retry?03:04
* jaem_N810 's thumbs hurt :(03:04
b-manpinback: shure03:04
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* xnt does the same03:04
b-manxnt: there's still definite hope03:04
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xntb-man: what will happen if I reboot?03:05
xnt* boot into ubuntu03:05
xntwill I go to the shell?03:05
b-manyou will see a splash03:06
xntthats it?03:06
b-manbut if you press home+menu you can go into the rescue menu to boot into the console03:06
b-manxnt: untill you get a desktop installed ;)03:07
pinbackjaem: you can get a nice BT mini mouse for $9.99 right now03:07
* xnt will try that :)03:07
jaem_N810pinback: where?03:08
xnthopefully  the ubuntu-desktop will be fixed soon :)03:08
b-manxnt: re; press home+power - sorry03:08
jaem_N810b-man: can I easily make the hw buttons do anything useful?03:08
jaem_N810or do they already?03:08
xntb-man: home button?03:08
xntdo you mean the swap windows button?03:08
pinback - doh! all sold out - they were there this morning03:09
xntIm on an n81003:09
xntok :)03:09
wazdI wonder why screen fades only on sub-hildon-menu in Maemo 503:10
jaem_N810b-man: are the hw keys just mapped to normal codes, or handled separately?03:11
b-manthey're handled by xserver-xorg-input-evdev03:12
GeneralAntillesMan the Ubuntu repos are slow.03:13
jaem_N810GA: ports is, anyways03:13
b-manGeneralAntilles: ubuntu-desktop is broken in jaunty :(03:13
jaem_N810they have some good mirrors for my area, normally03:13
jaem_N810b-man: thanks03:13
GeneralAntillesI've been getting about 20-70KB/sec all day.03:13
pinbackubuntu-desktop dead dead dead03:14
jaem_N810GA: ouch - it's been around 120-400 for me03:14
* b-man listens to his music03:14
jaem_N810but that's still slow, compared to what I'm used to03:14
* jaem_N810 listens to b-man's music too03:14
* jaem_N810 is not sure how he manages this03:15
* xnt turns on his surround sound system, and listens to his music03:15
b-man"all amarican rejects gives you hell"03:15
pinbackgot any Motorhead?03:15
* jaem_N810 turns on his peizo buzzer, and cries at xnt's cruelty03:16
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xntjaem: moip (musicoverirc protocol :P03:16
jaem_N810justt kidding - I have a respectable set of Logitech speakers, but nothing fancy03:16
jaem_N810xnt: can run that over IPoA?03:16
* xnt has gone deaf, by listening to his music at insanely loud voumes03:17
xntjaem: What?03:17
b-manipod? :)03:17
pinbackwill kde-desktop work?03:17
xntI cant hear you03:17
jaem_N810xnt: google RFC 114903:17
xntjaem : just kidding03:17
jaem_N810pinback: if you wait a few minutes, I'll let you know03:17
* pinback likes fluxbox best03:18
b-manxnt: you can see what i'm typing can't you? XD03:18
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* xnt is using a screen reader , and has shut off his monitor03:19
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jaem_N810it takes forever, so you may want to see how it works for me03:20
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pinbackIm surprised that Reuters didnt claim RFC 1149 violated their IP03:20
pinback"Reuter saw there was an opportunity to speed up news service between Brussels and Berlin by using homing pigeons to bridge that gap in the telegraph lines."03:20
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* xnt is bored03:20
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pinbackended up in the largest digital network (outside of internet/military/academic) in the work03:21
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sidneiso what's the magic key combo to boot into ubuntu after running refresh_bootmenu.d and restarting?03:21
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pinbackfirst data via pigeons => reuters03:21
pinbackfirst data over undersea cable => reuters03:21
pinbackfirst commercial data over satelite => reuters03:22
jaemoh really...03:22
pinbackall started with pigeons03:22
jaemthat's actually rather interesting03:22
Brian`~burn himself03:22
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze03:22
jaemit's almost too bad, in a way, that they weren't sued...03:22
jaemif only because it would have made an awesome headline03:22
xnt|boredBrian`: lol03:22
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jaemBrian`: wouldn't that create toxic fumes, that would make the marshmallows possibly unfit for human consumption?03:23
jaemor are we just burning infobot's bits03:23
pinbacktehnically the pigoen thing was in prewar Germany and Reuters moved to London - that might have had something to do with it03:23
Brian`yes XD03:23
jaemand not they physical medium03:23
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Brian`but he's burning03:23
Brian`while eating marshmellows03:23
xnt|carfulbecausdamn, they havea  lmit on irc nicks03:23
xnt|carfulbecaus* length limit03:24
jaemman my thumbs were getting sore03:24
xnt|carfulbecaus** limit03:24
jaemmy laptop's wlan is having issues03:24
pinbackthey dont want nickflooding03:24
jaemor possibly it's NM's fault03:24
jaemanyhow, it took me a couple hours to remember that I keep 2x 30' cables around for a reason03:24
Brian`~blow up03:24
* infobot blows up03:24
* xnt|carfulbecaus uses an externel kb when he is on IRC with his n820, for extended periods of time03:24
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jaemxnt: @n820 - you got my hopes up :(03:25
* sidnei reads scrollback 03:25
jaemyou know what I want?03:25
sidneiso home+power?03:25
jaemOpenmoko, modded into a wrist-comptuer03:25
xntsidnei: thats the recovery menu03:25
jaemthat would be epic03:25
xntbut if you want to boot into a console you use that option03:26
sidneixnt: oh. so does the boot menu come up automatically? or there's another combo?03:26
jaemthere are only a couple of wrist computers out there, and they don't fit my taste03:26
jaemand the specs are lousy03:26
xntyou press the menu button03:26
Brian`infobot: attack everyone and everything03:26
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing everyone and everything03:26
jaemand they cost a fortune03:26
sidneixnt: what's the menu button?03:26
sidneixnt: erm, which one03:26
xntare you on an n810 or n80003:27
jaeminfobot is female?03:27
* infobot confuses all the nearby males03:27
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jaemthat was a question03:27
jaemthat it apparently has provisions for03:27
* infobot strips and bends over.. give it to me baby ;)03:27
sidneixnt: n81003:27
xntslide out the keyboard, its there under the d-pad03:28
sidneixnt: oh of course03:28
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jaemregarding the wrist computer I saw, if a handheld computer has a 3.5" *QVGA* screen, and not much else that's any better, I >do not< expect the price to say "contact our sales dept"03:28
jaemI'm waiting for a good one03:29
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* xnt straps his n810 to his wrist, and uses that as a wrist computer03:30
jaemit's too bad one-of runs are mind-bogglingly expensive... I'm in CompEng, after all, and by the time I'm done, trying to rework the Freerunner might be a reasonable goal03:30
jaembut getting it built would be ridiculous03:30
jaemxnt: yeah, but that doesn't work so well03:30
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jaemis there a Dasher input method available for Maemo?03:31
jaemI had completely forgot about Dasher, but I'vebeen wanting to try it on a touchscreen device for a while03:31
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jaemI think it's in the Ubuntu repos, but I was hoping for an integrated version, like the handwriting pad, and such03:32
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jaempinback: it's till going to be a little while03:33
jaemthere's a heck of a lot of packages in the kubuntu-desktop meta-package03:33
jaemwhich is why I advised you to wait :P03:33
jaemit will surely need to be slimmed down to run at all useably, if it will work well even then03:34
jaemwe'll see03:34
* jaem checks the plasma-mid commits agin03:34
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Brian`hay, qole :D03:35
jaemhey qole03:35
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qolehi all03:35
xnthi qole03:36
jaemqole: regarding your post about UBC wifi, what type of encryption/auth do they use there?03:36
jaemI've only been down there once since I got my tablet03:36
b-manqole: it's been a while since you've been i irc03:36
qolehold on, i got a link03:37
jaemand I think that must have been while it was in for service, or I would have tried EDUROAM03:37
qoleb-man: not a big fan of irc03:37
jaemqole: I am, but it can eat up SO much time...03:37
b-manqloe: hehe03:39
qolejaem: that works for my n80003:40
* b-man needs to go - will be back in about 25-36 minutes03:40
jaemyeah, we use TTLS-PAP03:40
jaem(at Sfoo, that is)03:40
jaemit's really annoying that Nokia doesn't seem to think that supporting that is a priority03:41
jaemmaybe it isn't the highest priority, but as my friend pointed out... it's an >internet< tablet03:41
jaemit should be able to connect to the internet by an common means03:41
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jaemoh well - Mer should support that, right?03:42
jaemqole: it would be more bearable if Maemo supported global SOCKS proxies03:42
qolemeh, the NIT works at real universities03:42
jaembut most of the apps can't easily be tunneled03:42
* jaem glares at qole03:42
jaemqole: what's your major?03:43
qolejaem: employee not student03:43
pinbackstill no ubuntu desktops?03:43
* pinback is jumping in and out to watch Idol03:43
qoletsocks can tunnel a lot of stuff, tho03:44
neatojoneshey qole03:44
neatojonesthanks for testing that e17 stuff03:44
neatojonesSorry, you didn't find the keyboard more useful.03:44
jaemqole: ah - my mistake03:44
jaemwhat's your job, in that case?03:44
qoleneatojones, hi, I was just testing e17 as a replacement desktop03:44
neatojonesIt looks like it has a lot of potential.  We just need to tweak it all a bit.03:44
jaemneatojones: are you using Illume, or normal E?03:45
jaemit looked nice03:45
neatojonesthere's another keyboard available for normal illume03:45
neatojonesbut, it looks like a pretty version of the one mer is already using03:45
jaemcan you put the slide-out whatchamacallits on the sides?03:45
neatojonesI just built ecore packages which I'm hoping will fix the 16bit issues.03:46
neatojonesthe 16bit libraries compiled...but I'm not sure if they made it into the debs or not (because I'm not sure what files I need to include)03:47
jaemI forget the E17 term, but I'm wondering if the panels that slide out from the top and bottom in the Illume demo video can be configured to appear on the left and right03:47
neatojonesbut, I'm pretty sure that is why the easy_e17 looks nicer than the debs03:47
neatojonesI've not tried it,03:47
neatojonesbut I bet they could03:47
jaemmethinks that might work better03:47
neatojonesI mentioned that to Raster03:48
neatojones-the main e develop03:48
jaemadmittedly, I haven't tried it yet, but the demo I saw was on the Freerunner, and given the difference in form-factor03:48
neatojoneshe said he was planning on doing some stuff like that and overhauling illume03:48
jaemyeah, I know who Raster is03:48
jaemwhata was that about Android, though?03:48
jaemoh, nice03:48
jaemit looks like it could be an awesome phone UI03:48
neatojonesWell, checkout qoles screenshots03:48
jaemalthough I like my N810 more desktopy03:48
neatojonesI think it does better in portrait03:49
jaemqole: are they on your flickr page?03:49
neatojonesjust need to make the keyboard bigger03:49
jaemneatojones: that's what I was getting at03:49
neatojoneswe don't have xrandr support yet in mer :(03:49
qolejaem: yes03:49
neatojonesqole...did you see the page I linked to on iTT?03:49
neatojonesit tells how to make custom keyboards03:49
neatojonesI think we can make a custom one that will work better03:49
neatojoneshonestly, the landscape keyboard takes up less space on mine than the maemo one does.03:50
neatojonesI can see a whole lot more screen when it's up.  But I see the problem with scrolling too03:50
neatojonesthe main problem with it, to me, is that you haev to keep opening and closing it.03:50
neatojonesso, I turned off the animations and that makes it all go a bit faster.03:51
qolewhy's my Illume keyboard so fat, then?03:52
qoleWay bigger than Maemo stylus kbd03:52
neatojonesI'm referring to this one:
neatojonesqole:  did you try switching to the terminal keyboard?03:54
neatojonesI don't remember how much space it takes up.03:54
neatojonesI actually prefer the terminal keyboard03:54
xntwhat would happen if I removed the deblet bootmenu and installed the mer one, Im installing Mer on my Spare SD03:54
qoleneatojones: same size, more keys03:55
jaemxnt: the sun would implode, obviously03:55
jaemwhy even ask03:55
neatojonesqole: you must not be referring to the same one as I am (see the link I posted)03:55
xntsooooo, will mer boot of of my deblet menu?03:55
neatojonesre: the maemo onscreen keyboard03:55
* xnt is bored of maemo03:56
* jaem is too03:56
* xnt wants mer03:56
qoleI'm really looking fwd to Mer .11, with more Fremantle UI03:56
* jaem wants a KDE mobile edition03:56
jaemor mor03:56
jaemor both03:56
xntqole: same here :P03:57
* jaem will have to get some bigger SD cards03:57
* qole goes to eat dinner03:57
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* xnt wants 32gb sd for maemo(cloned)+nitdroid+ubuntu+mer+kde(pb's)03:58
xntjaem: would mer boot on my deblet bootmenu?03:59
* xnt installs mer03:59
jaemxnt: as long as you write up the *.item properly, I would assume so03:59
jaemI'm not entirely sure what the bootmenu situation is03:59
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xntI wish that stskeeps was here to clarify04:00
* xnt doesn't want to screw up his nit04:01
jaemsay, I saw a package available for Arch that would allow you to feed an arbitrary video stream into Skype... is it possible to make the N810 serve as a networked webcam?04:01
neatojonesjaem:  Try going over to #e on freenode and make a request for side shelfs instead of top/bottom04:01
neatojoneswhile your at it, as how we can change the onscreen keyboard size ;P04:02
jaemneatojones: willdo04:02
pinbackanyone got an ubuntu desktop yet?04:02
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b-man16i'm back04:02
xntjaem: yeah, I saw a gstreamer tut on the wiki, but it was slow04:02
xnthi bman04:02
b-man16hi, xnt04:02
xntb-man: can I boot mer on my  deblet  bootmenu?04:03
pinbackbman: still no desktops here - do you have any?04:03
xntpinback: no still broken04:03
b-man16nope :(04:03
* b-man16 thinks that it could be ubuntu's servers04:04
neatojonesqole: The lack of a good option for a menu in e17 is a drawback too.04:04
neatojonesLet me know if you come up with any good alternatives to gnome-menus04:04
pinbackis the repo down or are the packes missing?04:04
b-man16i think that the repo is partly down04:04
Shadow__Xi want to rsync my old home directory back to my n810 but i need to avoid the remote filessyten folder would rsync source dest --ignore=/Mydocs/Remote_filesystem be it04:05
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b-man16xnt: yes04:06
* xnt continues installing mer04:07
Shadow__Xb-man, that look right04:07
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b-man16i'm not quite shure, i haven't used rsynk04:08
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pinbackrsync can use tar style -exclude /Mydocs/Remote_filesystem04:10
pinbackregular Linux rsync anyway04:10
Shadow__Xah ok04:10
* b-man wonders what the ubuntu jaunty people are up to with the repo04:12
* xnt had to dig through 38 tar archives to get the mer bootmenu.d files :P04:12
xnt* tar and debfiles04:12
xntI didn't find it :(04:13
xntdoes anyone have the mer bootmenu.d file?04:14
* b-man grabs one04:14
xntb-man, d you have it?04:14
pinbackI guess we can try this if we cant get the desktop up:
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b-manxnt: i'll pastebin one for you04:15
xntpinback: lol04:16
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pinbacklol, or this:
b-manxnt: lol XD04:18
xntthanks :)04:18
b-mannp :)04:18
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z4chhalright guys what do you think of this project app with GUI in a similar style to that of liqbase that can be used to monitor all of the systems on your get updates on cpu usage, processes, ram usage, etc..04:21
jaempinback: that's amazing - I'll have to try that sometime04:22
pinbackI wrote a proprietary realtime monitoring system for a large linux deployment not so long ago04:22
z4chhpinback, cool :D ..maybe i can come to you for pointers?04:23
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pinbacksure :-) Im not on IRC much tho04:24
pinbackyou can get a ton of interesting stuff from /proc04:24
z4chhimagine little icons with the machine host name at the click..and up pops up something similar to conky for that can config what to monitor, view04:24
z4chhfor example hah04:25
pinbackas well as the usual CPU, nenory, disk, interrupt type stuff you can also get socket receive/transmit queues, Kernel I/O stats, etc. etc.04:25
z4chhi had pidgin with 94% cpu usage on my laptop...i didn't know it until my machine got warm/hot...if i had this app i could monitor it and possibly kill the process04:26
jaempinback: my tablet didn't like installing that many packages at once, and rebooted itself >_<04:26
jaemneed more swap04:26
xnt mplayer aa lol04:26
z4chhwould anyone want to install an app like that? >.<04:28
jaemz4chh: I think it's a good idea, although I'm not sure if I would personally have much of a use for it on a tablet04:28
jaemonly because I'm in and out of wifi so often that it would be less useful04:29
jaembut I'd say go for it04:29
jaemoh wait04:29
jaemI may have misread04:29
jaemwere you suggesting an "info center" app for the tablet, or a way to remotely monitor other machines?04:29
pinbackActually I found it pretty interesting when I did it - you find all sorts of interesting things04:29
pinbacki.e. ls -al /proc/<pid>/fd shows you all the open files and sockets for a process04:30
* jaem just remembered something amusing, but can't remember where it came from04:31
pinbackjust like lsof but nowhere near as expensive04:31
z4chhi was thinking of a system monitor type app.04:31
pinbacksystem monitoring is really easy...04:31
z4chhwhat do you mean info center? o.o04:31
jaem"checking if build environment is sane.  build environment is grinning and holding a spatula - guess not."  -- was that from xkcd's alt text at some point?04:31
neatojonesjaem:  It sometimes runs out of memory and reboots.  Try using more swap or activating it if it isn't already04:32
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jaemz4chh: I was asking if you were making an app that would give information about the local machine (e.g. tablet), or one to remotely monitor other machines (e.g. servers, etc.)04:32
jaemneatojones: I have 256MB as it is... I thought that would be enough :O04:32
z4chhi would say both04:32
jaemI'm finishing it up nowe04:32
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jaemz4chh: then I probably would use it04:32
neatojonesYeah.  I found that I need like 350 to not have that problem04:32
z4chhbecause id like to monitor all my machines on my network04:32
neatojonesI used to use 256, but it crashed it bit on installs.04:33
neatojonesand upgrades04:33
neatojonesNow, I'm using e17 and it loads a full desktop using 32Mb or ram and swap...04:33
neatojonesso I deactivated swap04:33
jaemz4chh: are you thinking of writing your own server for that, or piggybacking on existing ones?  I'm not sure about GNOME, etc, but I KDE's Sytem Guard has a remote monitoring daemon04:33
jaemneatojones: nice!04:33
neatojonesyeah.  Raster claims he can start his with only 12Mb04:34
jaemwait - for E17, or total system usage?04:34
z4chhid probably write my own server daemon that runs on the remote systems..and the nxxo would be the client04:34
neatojones...I might be ablet o get close to that if I turned off all but the necessary modules and bluetooth etc04:34
jaemmy goodness04:34
neatojonese17 plus system04:34
jaemheck -that would even run on my old Palm04:35
neatojonesit does.04:35
jaemdo you know if OpenEmbedded has Illume in it yet?04:35
jaemI haven't dealt with OE in quite a while04:35
neatojoneshe showed it off when it was brand new on a Treo 65004:35
neatojoneswhich only has 32megs of ram04:35
neatojonesI haev to make my own debs.  No one has packages of e17 that are up to date enough :(04:35
xnt :P , got the script from meow.org04:36
neatojonesit's killing me too, because there are a LOT of packages.04:36
jaemI meant, is it in the build system for OE04:36
jaemI'd have to make my own image anyways04:36
pinbackThe following /proc files give you a bunch of excellent system stats: /proc/net/dev, /proc/stat, /proc/net/snmp, /proc/diskstats, /proc/meminfo04:36
neatojonesand I'm not familiar enough with deb packaging or e1704:36
* jaem hates debian packages04:36
jaemthey're too fiddly04:36
jaemand too much work04:36
neatojonesso, it's going slow04:36
neatojonesbut, I think* I might have gotten somewhere now.04:37
xntpinback: check out the screenshot, lol kcabnip04:37
xntb-man: check it out too, lol nam-b04:38
pinbackz4chh: just stuff all the stats into a UDP packet and multicast it once every few seconds - no need for servers unless you want to collect - otherwise you end up with ganglia04:38
pinback1.8sec wipe04:39
pinbackthats slower than vino04:39
jaemwell, yeah, but it's still a pretty hot device04:39
z4chhpinback, ahh interesting, ill have to read up on tcp/ip sockets ;p04:39
jaemnot suitable as a general computer, but with those kind of specs, it would be great for some things04:40
jaemit's just a bit much to pay for something that's only good for "some things"04:40
pinbackz4chh: for socket info cat /proc/net/tcp or /proc/net/udp04:40
pinbackz4chh: for easy publishing check out perl IO::Socket::Multicast04:41
pinbackor if you are into C - multicast is the same as UDP it just uses IP addresses in the range ..
pinbackping will do a multicast ping04:42
z4chhpinback, ill probably use c04:43
pinbackactually pinging will send a ping that will be received by all computers just like a broadcast because has the same multicast MAC as which every computer joins on every interface04:43
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pinbackpinging or any other address will go only to those who joined the group (assuming your routers/switch supports igmp snooping)04:44
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z4chhwhy not broadcast? :p04:46
pinbackThat works fine as long as you dont flood :-)04:47
pinbackCode to send UDP datagram:
pinbackCode to receive:
xntb-man: what computer do you have?04:47
b-manxnt: i'm currently using my parent's Acer - but like i said, i'm getting a dell04:49
xntb-man: ok :)04:49
* b-man is chatting from his N800 though04:49
pinbackz4chh: BTW - if you stick a timestamp in the data you can also check if any of your clocks are out04:49
pinbackso, sit in loop - read /proc format some stats (i.e. ASCII) and then fire a datagram, then sleep and repeat04:49
xntok people I have to go to sleep, but ill try to install xchat on my n810, and go on after my parents go to sleep :)04:50
pinbacknite xnt: try not to dream of desktops04:50
z4chhpinback, ill take note of this points, thanks :)04:50
b-mansee you latter xnt04:51
xntsayanora (if you don't know what that means, google it :) ) I'll probally dream of me typing in apt-get install ubuntu-desktop and it working :), nite04:51
pinbackb-man are you running ubuntu right now?04:51
* pinback is jealous04:51
pinbackI prefer saki04:51
pinbackxnt: hopefully it will have finished installing by the time you wake up04:52
* xnt steals b-man's n800, and locks his bedroom door :P04:52
* b-man breaks down the door04:52
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luke-jrI didn't get to tell xnt04:53
luke-jrhe spelled sayoonara wrong04:53
pinbackyou've been drinking too much of that stuff04:53
luke-jrare bots allowed here?04:54
infobot[infobot] me. I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (, or updated sources at, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire, or awesome. gogogodzilla's pet04:54
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luke-jr]later tell xnt you spelled sayoonara wrong, fyi04:55
ljrbotluke-jr: The operation succeeded.04:55
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pinbackIm out as well - thx for the help - I;ll be back - need my desktop ;-) ttfn04:56
jaempinback: it finished installing04:56
jaemI just have to clean up some stuff, and we'll see04:56
luke-jrsomeone remind me to have ljrbot part once xnt gets his msg04:56
pinbackboot it04:56
pinbackhow much swap did you use?04:56
jaemI'll need a minute04:56
jaemI have 256MB04:56
jaemit wasn't quite enough04:56
pinbackok thats fine I have about double that04:57
* jaem may need more04:57
luke-jrwhat do you guys think of the new Linux mascot?04:57
jaemI didn't hear04:57
jaemare you serious04:57
luke-jrhe's a tasmanian devil04:58
b-manlike taz!!04:58
jaemTux is on vacation?04:58
luke-jrb-man: Tuz04:58
jaempinback: here goes...05:02
* pinback crosses his fingers & toes05:02
jaemI can has Kubuntu bootsplash?05:03
jaemb-man: whose work is the bootsplash, anyway?05:03
jaemis that upstream?05:03
pinbackgot spash?05:03
b-manmine :D05:03
jaemit's nice :D05:03
jaembut it's not blue :(05:03
b-manthanks :D05:03
jaemseriously, though - it's awesome05:03
jaembut there's no Kubuntu splash05:04
pinbackwhats it doing?05:04
jaemwell, I don't know how well it will work05:04
jaemit's booting05:04
jaemit takes a bit05:04
infobotjaem meant: it takes a while05:04
jaems/a while/eternity less one day/05:04
b-manjaem: what desktop env did you install?05:04
jaemto try out05:05
jaemalmost done booting05:05
jaemb-man: methinks I will have to slim it down a lot05:05
b-mandid you enable swap05:05
jaem*buntu isn't bloated, by any means, but it's no featherweight, either05:05
luke-jrdoes anyone make actual RAM MicroSD?05:05
b-mank :)05:05
jaemooh.... we have Oxygen busy cursor05:05
jaemwe have Air background05:05
jaemKDM loaded05:05
jaemtouchscreen is inoperative, though :(05:06
jaemis there an easy way to open a console with the hardware keys available?05:06
jaempinback: that may be my fault05:06
jaemI had a minimal install, and I was messing with some things05:06
jaemand then I forot what I did by the time today rolled around05:06
b-manjaem: rescue-menu ;)05:07
* b-man is just glad his new sys-env install method is working :)05:07
jaemFn still isn't working05:08
pinbackok, Im out - gl with kubuntu - hopefully the repos will be back for gnome tomorrow05:08
jaemthat was fixed, wasn't it?05:08
jaempinback: cheers05:08
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jaemlogging in05:08
luke-jrcan we use this?05:10
jaemit looks quite interesting05:12
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jaemhmm... well, plasma didn't load05:12
* jaem reboots05:12
jaemoh right05:12
jaemb-man: can I set up the power button to control the power settings in KDE?05:13
jaemfor example, to bring up the Leave/Shutdown dialog05:13
jaemI was asking about that earlier... are they all just normal keys, then?05:14
jaemor are some of them handled specially?05:14
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b-mani'm not 100% shure05:14
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* Xnt_n800 is using b-mans n80005:23
Xnt_n800hey all05:23
sisto_n810nice :)05:23
* sisto_n810 is using his own n81005:24
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Xnt_n800 hey bman05:25
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* Xnt_n800 hares05:26
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jaemb-man: framebuffer console doesn't work - it just loads KDM05:30
Xnt_n800sorry about that05:31
Xnt_n800i hate the soft kb05:31
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Xnt_n800if i don't respond that means im hiding my n8x0 from my parents, and acting asleep :P btw b-man, now i know how n800 users suffer from lack of hw kb :)05:33
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* Xnt_n800 was forced to use sw kb to avoid kb clicking noise05:33
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Xnt_n810is anyone here?05:37
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Xnt_n810lol now i know how n800 user feel with no hw keyboard05:46
Xnt_n810ignore any typos05:46
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jaemwaht, yoi mesn lkie tish?05:48
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jaem_afkwho are you laughing at? I'm not here05:55
jaem_afkostensibly, anyway05:55
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jaemXnt_n810: ping!06:00
jaemI figured out what half of my problem was06:00
jaem1) it was loading plasma... just slowly06:00
jaem(no login splash)06:01
Xnt_n810jaem: connect, to, #hak506:01
jaem2) I had installed the base system before b-man had finished the repos, so I was missing some rather important pacakges :P06:01
Xnt_n810what kde06:01
jaemXnt_n810: I know of it, but why now in particular?06:01
Xnt_n810im on it readin slashdot06:02
Xnt_n810just join it06:03
Xnt_n810comcast leaked 8000 passwords :P06:03
jaemoh my06:03
jaemthey would be interested in that06:03
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jaemXnt_n810: did b-man write an update how-to?  I just want to make sure I didn't do anything else wrong06:08
Xnt_n810not yet06:09
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jaemXnt_n810: sys-env-x is the new metapackage, right?06:13
jaemanything else I need, aside from that and what's mentioned in the how-to?06:13
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Xnt_n810well i don't know, :p im waiting for the ubuntu-desktop to be fixed06:20
jaemwhy would you, when you could install Kubuntu-desktop :P06:21
jaemgah - I'm starving06:21
jaemI'll bbiab06:21
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qole9:30pm here06:31
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jaemhere as well06:34
jaemwhat a coincedence06:34
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qolewell, not really06:34
jaemqole: I've got KDE4 more-or-less kind of working06:34
qolesadly, you're on Shaw :(06:35
jaemit actually runs at a speed from this decade06:35
jaemwhat is the cause of your sorrow?06:35
qoleanother one lost to coax...06:36
qoleanother blow to the copper pair06:36
jaemwell, would you rather have 6Mbps or 15Mbps, if they're only a few dollars different in price?06:37
jaemlast I checked, anyway06:37
qolehuh? 35 vs 51 per month?06:37
* jaem checks his facts06:38
qoleI don't have cable TV, see. Not since ever.06:38
Xnt_n810qole:12:39pm here06:39
jaemoh wow... Telus' prices are almost reasonable06:39
jaemor would be, if they didn't fail in other ways :S06:40
jaemstill, though, it's $30/month for "1.5 to 6Mbps"06:40
jaemso... what speed would I /actually/ get , I wonder?06:40
jaemor, I could get Shaw student plan for $32/month06:40
qoleXnt_n810, I don't understand, are you in HI?06:40
jaemwhich is 15Mbps with powerboost06:40
jaemat least they've realized that they have to lower their prices06:41
Xnt_n810no in ny06:41
jaembut it sounds like you're still getting inferior prices06:41
qoleIn practice, my Telus speeds are comparable to my father's Shaw speeds06:42
* jaem is not convinced06:42
jaemI've had very bad experiences with Telus06:42
jaemand nothing could convince me to use their services06:42
jaemalso, they're on a contract, so they're out right there06:42
qoleXnt_n810, then it is AM there, not PM06:42
jaemand they bundle their modems into the most useless route I have ever seen06:43
Xnt_n810im sleepy,lol im not thinking straight06:43
jaemwhich they ship in the least possible secure state06:43
jaemdon't get me started06:43
jaemaccording to the call center rep, I'm >paying< to get >free< incoming text messages06:44
qoleI'm still using my sturdy old mid-90s 3Com DSL modem06:44
jaemI asked the guy how that made any kind of sense, and he sheepishly admitted that it didn't06:44
Xnt_n810im on prepaid, but no data :(06:44
qoleI don't have a cell either, their mobile service might be crap06:44
jaemmy phone isn't even worth paying for data06:44
jaemqole: oh, believe me, it is06:45
jaemhalf the mountain has poor reception, and some parts have none06:45
qoleAh, my wife has prepaid from Telus. $11 something a month, after tax06:45
jaemif I'm at the residence bus stop (far West), and a car drives by, my signal will often drope06:45
Xnt_n810jaem: your in austraila?06:45
jaemno - BC, Canada06:45
Xnt_n810oh ok06:46
qolewe live about 45 minutes apart06:46
Xnt_n810i forgot :P06:46
jaemwell, a bit more by bus06:46
jaemqole: did you attend RMS' lecture a few weeks ago?06:46
qoleI'm 8 minutes from the Broadway skytrain station06:47
qoleso you could probably get on that06:47
qole8 min walk06:48
qoleno, I wish I had gone to the RMS talk06:48
jaemit was interesting06:48
qoleI bet. He's such a hard-ass about freedom06:49
jaemunfortunately, someone disregarded a note on a box, and sold a plush GNU that was meant to be auctioned06:49
qolefree as in freedom06:49
jaemrms was quite cut up06:49
jaemI agree with him in many regards, but I think he takes things too far a lot of the time06:50
qoleha! screwed by capitalism again!06:50
qolewaaaaay too far06:50
jaemthat said, we wouldn't be chatting here right now if he hadn't been aroubd, so....06:50
* jaem imagines a world without N810s06:51
* jaem shudders06:51
* Xnt_n810 winces06:51
fireunfennec free!06:51
qoleIt takes a few extremists to make a place for the moderates06:51
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jaemwell put06:51
qoleNo suicides on this channel please.06:52
jaemactually, I've always been of the opinion that hypocrits often have really good advice, but no one listens to them because, well... they're hypocrits06:53
* Mousey imagines a world where the n900 has an accelerometer, good gps, hardware keyboard, two SDXC slots, 3D acceleration, and a choice of cel radios.. oh and 64gb internal06:53
qoleI'm typing slowly because I'm lying in bed using my N80006:53
Xnt_n810same here except n81006:53
GeneralAntillesWhat's an SDXC slot?06:53
Mouseyoh and 800x60006:53
GeneralAntilles4:3? :shudder:06:54
* jaem imagines the N900 having all that, and coming with a linux-based UAV for free06:54
MouseyGeneralAntilles: it's after SDHC, SDXC ranges from 32GB-2TB06:54
jaem5:4 is where it's at ;)06:54
Mouseyjaem: lol uav06:54
jaemqole: Unmanned Aerial Vehicle06:54
GeneralAntillesMousey, slots come in "SD", "MiniSD" and "MicroSD". :)06:54
Mouseyyes, but those are form factors, where HC and XC refer to capacities06:54
* jaem wants a 2TB pico-SD card06:54
GeneralAntillesMousey, yes, and capacity has nothing at all to do with formfactor.06:55
Mouseyit does when you want to stick a card in there that isn't supported =P06:55
GeneralAntillesSD, SDHC, and SDXC are all software-only changes.06:55
Mouseyon the slot side maybe06:55
* Xnt_n810 wants a 8EB nanosdcard06:55
GeneralAntillesSo talking about the slot as "SDXC" is kinda meaningless.06:55
qoleI've actually pondered hooking one of those $35 foam airplanes up to a computer06:55
Mouseyand that's fine with me =)06:55
jaemXnt_n810: I'm waiting for the 64YB cards :P06:55
GeneralAntillesBesides, current tablets support the important part of SDXC just fine.06:55
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GeneralAntilles_All_ Linux devices with SDHC support do, in fact.06:56
* jaem can't remember the next multiplier06:56
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GeneralAntillesIt's just exFAT that's the stumbling point.06:56
Mouseyhaha, FAT06:56
Mouseythat was funny06:56
Mouseythe 90s called, they want their filesystem back!06:56
GeneralAntillesAs long as you're not planning on using it in a non-Linux machine, then that's not an issue.06:56
GeneralAntillesexFAT is recent.06:57
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jaemI don't know what's running on this Kubuntu install, but it *hammering* at my tablet06:57
Xnt_n810isn't that vista's so called fat64?06:57
jaemthe thing is burning up06:57
GeneralAntillesXnt_n810, yes, exFAT/FAT64. Same thing.06:57
Xnt_n810jaem: lol,06:57
jaemit's called ObesityOS - following the core design principles of Vista06:57
GeneralAntillesIt's not all that similar to FAT16/32.06:57
qoleGeneralAntilles, nice to see you're still up06:58
Xnt_n810ga: ok (too lazy to type your name on soft kb, sorry :P)06:58
GeneralAntillesqole, trying to get Ubuntu to play nice is like pounding my head into a brick wall.06:58
GeneralAntillesBut, unfortunately, unconsciousness is escaping me.06:58
jaemGA: is the brick wall FOSS?06:58
qoleXChat has the cool Tab-completion thing06:59
GeneralAntillesjaem, I'm far to busy ramming my head into it to read its license.06:59
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: jaem, I'm far too busy ramming my head into it to read its license.06:59
jaemmy Nokia charger just started making strange noises06:59
jaemthat can't be good06:59
qoleI type, Gen-TAB and I get...06:59
qoleGeneralAntilles, see?06:59
jaemwhen it's plugged in, it's making a sort of whirring, whining noise07:00
jaemit doesn't sound quite like the Targus adapter that trashed my laptop's motherboard07:00
jaembut it doesn't sound good :S07:00
qolejaem, watch for smoke, sniff for 'that smell'07:00
jaemah, the Magic Smoke07:01
jaemwell, I think I can still tell resistor from diode07:01
jaembut it's been a while07:01
jaemdiode is definitely worse07:01
Xnt_n810is it faint07:02
jaemthe sound? yes07:02
jaemthe smell of burning diode? no07:02
qoleGeneralAntilles,  I actually went back to 8.04 after fighting for hours with 8.1007:02
jaemqole: have you heard of NexentaOS?07:03
qoledamned PulseAudio07:03
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qolejaem, no07:03
jaemit's Debian/Ubuntu, but with the OpenSolaris kernel07:04
jaemgo figure07:04
jaemthe question that comes to mind is "why?"07:04
* qole looks at his watch, almost bedtime07:04
qolejaem, yes, why?07:04
qolethere must be some advantage to that kernel...07:05
jaemthat's what I'm wondering :S07:05
Xnt_n810generalantilles: im using 8.10+also07:06
qolelast post of the night: my head is full of greenish goo, and it is all coming out of my nose... :(07:07
* qole blows his nose and leaves07:08
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Xnt_n810bye qole07:08
jaemnight, qole07:08
Xnt_n810ok, now i really bored07:09
Xnt_n810* im07:09
jaemXnt_n810: Google "virtual bubblewrap"07:09
jaemoh wait... maybe not the best idea in the circumstances :P07:09
* jaem wishes the N810 has an Alt key07:10
* Xnt_n810 want virtualbubblewrap for maemo :P07:12
jaemwell, it's flash, so you can just download it...07:12
Xnt_n810native app, with pressure detection07:12
jaemand run it locally07:13
jaemthat's almost funny, until you realize what an utter waste of time it would be07:13
jaemdoes the N810 even really *have* much in the way of pressure sensing?  Xournal doesn't seem to act any differently with pressure sensitivity on07:14
Xnt_n810I don't know, but im assumingthat xjournal has a bug .07:16
Xnt_n810or something07:16
jaemcould be... it's a bit outdated07:16
jaemthe chinook package, that is07:16
jaemoh - right07:16
jaemthat's what I wanted to work on...07:16
* jaem pulls out obtuse, lengthy spec sheets, and goes to work07:17
jaemdarn you, standards organizations!07:17
jaemwhy can't you write your specs like Simple Wikipedia?07:17
jaemor at leasat use PDFs with hyperlinks, instead of MS Word docs with lousy formatting07:18
jaemI suppose I should get used to it07:18
jaemit won't get any better once I graduate07:18
Xnt_n810I haven't opened word for 1.5 years07:19
AndreLuizlucky you07:19
jaemneither have I, in longer, except the odd time on school computers07:19
AndreLuizi'd rather speak out all my presentations than edit it using word or something like that07:20
Xnt_n810not even on the school computers07:20
Xnt_n810i use google docs07:20
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jaemXnt_n810: I don't like storing my data in the cloud07:22
jaemwhen I can help it07:22
jaemGmail is a necessary evil07:22
jaemand a pretty good evil, at that07:22
AndreLuizyou guys, gonna sleep07:23
Xnt_n810lol,  i use dreamhost for email07:23
Xnt_n810cya,im getting sleepy07:23
jaemme too07:24
Xnt_n810bye jaem cya in the morning07:24
jaemsee ya, Xnt_n81007:24
Xnt_n810nite everyone07:25
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jaemg'night, #maemo07:39
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Shadow__Xanyone else having na issue updating carman?09:12
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* Stskeeps yawns loudly09:26
Shadow__Xput on music09:27
Shadow__XLOUD NOISES09:27
Shadow__Xoh steve carell09:28
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zakkmanyone here?09:47
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zakkmi cant seem to get reflashing my tablet to work09:49
zakkmsays version of 'sw-release': <no version>09:49
zakkmUSB device found found at bus 005, device address 002-0421-0105-02-0009:49
zakkmFound device RX-34, hardware revision 130109:49
zakkmNOLO version 1.1.1609:49
zakkmVersion of 'sw-release': <no version>09:49
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zakkmStskeeps: is the 0.10internal image safe to use?09:59
jaemhey Stskeeps09:59
Stskeepszakkm: yes, it is, but by getting you volunteer to testing it and reporting bugs09:59
Stskeepszakkm: and it lacks artwork09:59
zakkmthats fine, i just meant in a wont brick my nokia sense10:00
Stskeepsi haven't bricked my nokia yet :P10:00
jaemStskeeps: I just finished watching the second Fantastic 4 movie10:00
jaemit was terrible10:00
jaembut one question10:00
Stskeepsjaem: hehe10:00
zakkmdoes it have the ui thats in the screenshots?10:00
jaemhow come the N770 used throughout the movie has a cooler-looking OS than Fremantle?10:00
Stskeepsjaem: film effects? :P10:00
jaemthere's something wrong there :P10:00
zakkmwhat the?10:01
zakkmwheres the n770?10:01
zakkmi own that movie10:01
jaemReed Richards uses it all through the shwo10:01
jaemhe pulls it out during the wedding10:01
zakkmohh his little "pda"10:01
Stskeepszakkm: is closer to the truth atm10:01
jaemzakkm: yes, the un-PDA10:01
zakkmway different look :)10:01
Stskeepszakkm: we just got artwork yesterday though10:01
jaemalso, I think the ratio of technobabble to real science was actually infinitie10:02
zakkmi know but i just saw one screenshot im like sweettttt :D * downloads *10:02
Stskeepszakkm: the code is there and it actually works10:02
Stskeepsso try out that part.10:02
zakkmokay this is closer to the truth *less polished*10:02
jaemgiven that I didn't catch any real science at all ;)10:02
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zakkmits for little kids :)10:02
zakkmthe movie10:02
jaemStskeeps: try to convince Hollywood to use an N810 running Mer, next time ;)10:03
jaemzakkm: well, not *little* per se, but yeah, I didn't enjoy it much10:03
jaemit was cheesy10:03
zakkmStskeeps: 15min download reamining.10:03
zakkmi meant the audience isnt supposed to have much of a science knowledge.10:03
zakkmIts irrelevant10:03
jaemwell, that's how Hollywood works10:04
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zakkmdisney does better :)10:04
jaemthey assume that most people won't know any better, and from that decide that the rest of the people don't matter10:04
jaemI remember watching Wall-E, and coming out of theatre, my first thought was, "there was a scene that violated Newton's laws of motion"10:05
zakkmnever seen wall-e10:05
jaemblatantly violated them, too10:05
jaemthe robot's flying around outside a spaceship by firing off a fire extinguisher10:05
jaemonly, every time he lets up on the handle, he decelerates10:06
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jaemanyhow, I need to get to bed10:06
zakkmi heard it was a cute movie10:06
jaemit wasa10:06
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jaemfor Pixar, it was fairly well done10:06
jaemthere's an interesting robot model of the main character on Instructables10:06
jaemlook it up10:06
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zakkmStskeeps: Do i install the image with flasher just like its a normal maemo image?10:13
zakkmreflash the image*10:13
Stskeepserr.. which image are you downloading10:14
zakkmmer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.10internal.tar.gz 132mb10:14
Stskeepsi'd use the mer installer, when it asks for URL= something, use URL=mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.10internal.tar.gz10:14
zakkmmy nokia is "broken" though10:14
zakkmand flash-only initfs doesnt work10:15
zakkmi get sw release <no version>10:15
Stskeepsdo a full flash maybe10:17
Stskeepsdo you remember the -F? (actual flash)?10:17
zakkm./flasher-2.0.macosx -F RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=initfs -R10:17
zakkmalso i just finished downloading the image, and it was like a 20min download.10:18
Stskeepsthere's missing something there..10:18
infoboti guess flashing is
zakkmi copied it straight from there10:18
Stskeepsyeah, you're missing a -f10:18
zakkmohh lowercase too10:18
zakkmohh maybe i backspaced it by mistake10:19
zakkmsweet ;p10:19
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zakkmomg it boots! :D10:20
zakkmbut i already downloaded mer image ;p10:20
Stskeepsthe .tar.gz image isn't flashable directly anyway, :P10:20
Stskeepsyou need the mer installer probably10:20
zakkmcould i copy it over to nokia?10:21
zakkmwould that make me not have to redownload?10:21
Stskeepsmm, not directly no10:21
zakkmcorrupted download?10:21
Stskeepsjust grab the .install file and point the installer to the right URL=10:21
zakkmyeah doing check for updates ;p10:22
zakkmwhats the newest merinstaller version do you know by heart?10:22
Stskeepsjust grab the .install file from the 0.9 page10:22
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zakkmsorry havent used my nokia in weeks ;p10:23
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zakkm.install opened application manager, and it had high cpu for awhile then just stopped10:25
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x29aso is mer usable?10:35
zakkmx29a: why not? :D10:35
x29adunno, backlight flicker, sound crappy, no wlan or whatever could not work10:35
x29aim thinking about ubuntu10:35
zakkmits better than ubuntu port :P10:36
x29aim not all that happy with the maemo i have on it10:36
zakkmme neither10:36
zakkmin midst of mer install10:36
x29atell me wotcha think of it10:36
zakkmused a older version, was nice, but the newer versions are starting to change ui10:36
x29ai dont need big graphic click-and-colors, just a working, fast os for browsing, chatting, and so on10:37
zakkmwhich you have? 800 or 810?10:37
zakkmah lucky you10:37
zakkmthe new fennec beta came out yesterday you know10:37
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x29athanks santa10:37
zakkm810, you should try e17 on top of mer10:37
zakkmproblem is the onscreen keyboard temporary, but you dont use onscreen10:38
x29azakkm: im not involved in the development, and i get confused with all the different possibilities10:38
x29ayah, i have hardware which i would use10:38
zakkmits a really nice uhh10:38
zakkmlinux desktop10:38
StsN801god.. parents at times. i'm in bus and there is a small boy with his mom and a plastic rifle and he's pointing it at random people.. in a couple we are going through the ghetto with a lot of ppl torn by war and traumatised. this will go well.10:39
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zakkmof course10:39
zakkmi think ;p10:39
zakkmx29a: its just very click and use10:39
zakkmnot like maemo with "start menu"10:39
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x29aStsN801: u think theyll point back with a not-so-plastic-rifle?10:40
StsN801x29a, nah. some just don't react mentally well to having a rifle in their faces .10:41
x29aso there is that pure ubuntu port, which ports ubuntu mobile to the N8x0, there is the "original" maemo, and there is mer, which is trying to combine and improve both?10:41
x29aStsN801: cant hold it against them ;)10:41
zakkmStsn801: you planning for hildon input method in future mer?10:41
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StsN801x29a, ubuntu port is mer without hildon and sanity..10:42
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zakkmi cant believe i dont have extras-devel installed -.-10:44
zakkmwell "added"10:44
StsN801honestly though. we had ubuntu ported in summer 08. decided not to go ahead with it for same reason as not going ahead with deblet. you are going to hit a wall of usability and battery problems10:44
zakkmhow is mer on battery life?10:45
x29ahow is mer on all aspects of a mobile device?10:45
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x29abattery, ram, performance, swap, usability, standby/resume, connectivity etc10:45
StsN801better, but some things is needed still to be connected10:45
x29ai deeply respect people developing this kind of software, really, great work10:46
x29atoo bad mer doesnt need a hello_world.c anymore ;) thats all i could contribute10:46
StsN801x29a, wifi is fine with a small bug. standby/resume is useless to talk about on arm..10:47
x29aStsN801: so could i keep my mer running like i do with maemo?10:47
StsN801x29a, thats the hope yeah10:48
x29aima get into this10:48
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x29adoing way to little with my tablet anyway10:48
x29aNetwork-Manager dies on N8x0 after sleep / idling10:49
x29ait does that on my ubuntu 8.04 on ibm x31 as well10:49
StsN801nm should die but it does its job10:50
x29aim facing lots of problems with it10:51
x29aits doing "too much stuff on its own"10:51
zakkmx29a: you have mer already?10:51
x29azakkm: na10:51
x29areading about how to get it10:51
zakkmStsN801: it says Install update? merinstaller 2.0.0-mer6  ? is that right?10:52
StsN801think so10:52
x29azakkm: are you flashing it or on mmc?10:52
zakkmi want to use the newest 0.10 internal, so i have to use mmc10:52
x29awhats the "internal" stand for?10:52
x29ainternal mmc?10:53
zakkminternal = not public10:53
x29aah ok10:53
StsN801testing only10:53
x29aare you installing on internal or external mmc tho?10:53
zakkmlike its publicly avaliable10:53
zakkmpublicly avaliable.. not recommended at all/ no support / nothing..10:54
zakkmby definition.10:54
x29ayeh, sounds great10:54
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zakkmdifferent ui in 0.10 :P10:54
zakkmthats why i want to use it10:54
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x29aduh sweet, i can just install it into internal mmc,since i have my maemo on external mmc and in flash, so i can boot them alternativly?10:55
zakkmjust add a bootmenu entry for mer10:55
zakkmand do "install mer"10:55
zakkmi believe?10:55
x29aso theres no drawback10:55
x29ait says it in the wiki, ill just follow the instructions, or pester guys here10:56
zakkmyelling? throwing nokia across the room?10:56
x29asounds like fuuuuuun10:56
zakkmStsN801: any chance theres one newer than that 0.10internal?10:56
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x29azakkm: installing installer11:06
zakkmx29a: sorry i left11:07
zakkmmorning woglinde11:07
zakkmx29a: you want to use the new 0.10internal?11:07
x29asure, why not11:08
zakkmin the installer, when it asks for url11:08
zakkmchange it to11:08
x29ahave that11:08
x29ai was present when that url was posted, thanks11:08
zakkmlooks okay i suppose11:08
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x29asince i can always boot my "real" maemo, i have no fear in installing mer11:09
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x29alooks impressive11:10
x29aprobably draws the batt empty in 5min11:10
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zakkm <-- future apparantly11:10
zakkm finale.11:10
Stskeepszakkm: no, that's the neest11:11
Stskeepssorry, just got into my office :)11:12
zakkmthats out?11:12
Stskeepsx29a: actually no, it is fairly static ui11:12
zakkm just reading this11:12
x29agreat, the bootloader overwrote my bootconfig, so i have to edit that11:13
x29ahm, lets see11:13
zakkmx29a: said to do it manually ;p11:13
Stskeepsyeah, it says so, it isn't compatible with clone-to-SD, you need to make your own clone .item11:13
Stskeepsplease pester penguinbait about it11:13
x29azakkm: i guess i can do that with the system in flash11:14
zakkmStskeeps: still looking for help for the package thing?11:14
x29agee, im getting stuff confused11:14
zakkmGrab the source package the Mer package is based on, and the new one from fremantle. diff -ruN them, and save the diff.11:14
x29ai probably should install the installer in the flash image, since i can boot that afterwards, ok lets start again11:15
Stskeepszakkm: until everything is lime, blue, green on we do :P11:15
zakkmKept back because of Fremantle HIM requiring a thumb keyboard11:16
Stskeepsfremantle only has thumb keyboard, not stylus11:16
zakkmim thinking all tablets have thumb keyboard support ;p11:16
zakkmand do ppl still use stylus?11:16
Stskeepsseemingily, but i think next version won't have stylus11:16
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zakkmmy stylus just sits there11:17
zakkmalways use thumbs11:17
x29a thats what i should do before rebooting or?11:18
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Stskeepsdid you use clone-to-SD before?11:18
x29ayes, but just for testing11:18
x29aso i have maemo on external sd and in internal flash11:18
x29aas long as i can boot one maemo im all set11:18
x29aas backup plan11:19
zakkmstskeeps: does mer do mplayer nicely?11:19
zakkmfor video playback11:19
Stskeepsprobably not, cos of the X server11:19
Stskeepswe hope to fix that though11:19
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zakkmis it possible to "steal" maemo's?11:20
Stskeepsyeah, but HIM stops working11:20
Stskeepsx29a: sec.11:20
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x29ano rush, ima go do the dishes11:20
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Meiz_n810zakkm: maemos mplayer shows videos somehow11:21
zakkmi know it works fine in maemo ;p11:21
zakkmi want to know if it works fine in mer11:21
Meiz_n810it looks pretty much the same, that it looked with android kernel...11:21
zakkmandroid is cool11:21
zakkmwish it had sound support though11:21
Meiz_n810i was talking about maemos mplayer in Mer11:21
zakkmis it smooth enough tho11:22
zakkmi use it for xvid's11:22
zakkmmy nokia.11:22
Stskeepsx29a: i'll help you with the issue if you promise me to document it on afterwards.11:24
zakkm lol :)11:25
zakkmdo people do this?11:25
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Stskeepscos there's a bunch of MIDs and touchscreen pcs that could use hildon11:26
Stskeepsalso, the VMDK is made in a similar fashion11:26
zakkmi guess11:26
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zakkmbut im thinking normal computing11:26
zakkma OS would be nicer11:26
Stskeepsit might be ok as a netbook remix really.11:26
zakkmyeah actually i should get a friend to try, he might like it11:26
zakkmhas a acer aspire one11:26
Stskeepszakkm: when you have 0.10 running, do me a favour and test if HIM works.11:29
zakkmits unarchiving now11:29
zakkmhave a n800 btw.11:29
Stskeepsyeah, i know11:29
zakkmill test whatever you like11:29
Stskeepsfair enough, keep track of and change them into 100% if you verify it works, and change background color to LightGreen if 100% :P11:31
zakkmactually believe it or not, i have never edited a wiki.11:32
Stskeepsit's fairly easy when you see it11:33
zakkmsigning up for maemo garage now11:33
Stskeepsah, you can edit anonymously too11:33
zakkmi would like you to see it was me, if it is11:34
zakkmthat way if i put soemthing is right, and forothers it isnt11:34
zakkmyou could know and ask? idkk11:35
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zakkmwooh mer booted11:36
Stskeepsok, Meizirkki will be mentoring the test component, so he'll assign tasks to be tested and such11:36
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zakkmhalfway progress of bootsplash :)11:37
zakkmim a new tech addict :)11:37
zakkmi must have bleeding-edge11:37
zakkmone of the reasons i got into linux11:37
zakkmsome things are okay, like hardware i dont care about11:38
zakkmbut if you tell me theres a new firefox 4, i must see it11:38
woglindethere is a new firefox511:38
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x29aback, in black11:39
zakkmStskeeps: hildon input popped up perfectly ( stylus type )11:39
zakkmduring "enter first name" of first startup11:40
x29aStskeeps: sounds like a fair deal, lemme get an account11:40
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Stskeepszakkm: k11:40
zakkmis there thumb keyboard, or just stylus?11:40
Stskeepsjust stylus11:41
Stskeepsonly open source so11:41
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zakkmk then yes, him fully works well11:41
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Stskeepszakkm: then i guess you can tell meiz it works fine so he can update the summary and indicate you tested that :)11:42
zakkmStskeeps: might just be me but why is midori in extras and not in "internet" ?11:42
Stskeepscos life isn't fair :P11:42
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zakkmmight be me, or just bad mer but i went to settings and then panels then organize11:43
zakkmand that froze.11:43
hom3rhi, sorry for the question but how can I send data via GET or POST using maemo C libraries?11:43
zakkmno fullscreen hardware buttons ? :(11:44
zakkmohhh noo him in midori11:44
Stskeepsyeah, so it goes11:45
zakkmworks fine in terminal though11:45
Stskeepszakkm: do me a favour and do what's said on as well11:45
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hom3ri'm using Libconic to setup the connection... need to send parameters to an external URL over GET... a highscore for a game...11:46
zakkmi cant program or draw, i wont be any good :)11:46
zakkmcould create a "bug" list though11:46
aquatixhom3r: just nitpicking, but shouldn't you POST that instead?11:47
Stskeepszakkm: testing is fine too11:47
Stskeepsit's just so we keep track of the troops :P11:47
zakkmwow omg11:47
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zakkmi went to open file. i pressed < .. and now it shows nothing and frozen11:47
zakkmwont close :(11:48
zakkmim on a n800 ;p11:48
Stskeepsthere's a esc button, the top one in the 3 button thing on the left side11:48
zakkmooo theres load-applet ;p11:48
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zakkmohh i so want to be a huge maemo person :)11:50
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x29aStskeeps: so i have a n810, external sd, maemo on internal flash and external sd, internal sd is totally empty, i want to try mer, i have an usb cable beside me, im a novice with tablets but with basic programming and advanced unix skills11:51
zakkmAffiliation (employer) or occupation - .. i think id be the only one with "high school student"11:51
Stskeepszakkm: nah, think there's a couple11:51
zakkmx29a: so nice :D running now11:51
Stskeepsx29a: oh, there you are11:51
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x29aStskeeps: ok, will try that in a sec, facing wlan problem11:52
zakkmeasy-deb-chroot from mer :D11:53
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zakkmStskeeps: are the repositories specfic to mer?11:54
Stskeepsno, that's maemo extras you see there11:55
zakkmcan add extras-devel?11:55
zakkmohh got him working in midori :D just starting working randomyl11:56
Meiz_n810zakkm: did you press enter when text space selected? :P11:57
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zakkmon a n800.,11:57
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zakkmohh thats why11:58
zakkmi cant click on a text field, but i can change url?11:58
zakkmlike text field doesnt bring up him , but address bar does11:59
Stskeepsyeah, two difference engines11:59
zakkm:( midori crased12:00
hom3ri don't need the answer...  I need a way to send player high score to an external server. DBUS or What? Please, help me :)12:00
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Stskeepshom3r: maybe use libcurl12:00
x29ahom3r: sockets?12:01
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hom3rso... i need to setup the connection through Libconic and after that send data via sockets12:02
Meiz_n810zakkn, install arora :)12:02
Meiz_n810it's way  better than midori12:03
zakkmunable to install mplayer, package missing libsdl 1.212:03
zakkmthats not a good idea on a new unedited mer image :P12:03
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zakkmwheres arora?12:03
hom3ror maemo recognize my sockets calls and lets the user choose12:03
zakkmMeiz_n810: what repository would have it, that i would add12:04
Meiz_n810zakkm, go to Xtem, sudo su, and apt-get install arora12:04
zakkmeasy said then done, slow typing on n800, stylus methods12:04
hom3rwow... found it.. libc612:05
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zakkmMeiz_N810: downloading, will take a few minutes, thankss! :D12:06
Sebwhere can I find some doc on changing the way my n800 mount various partitions on the different /media/mmcX ?12:06
zakkmreally want to use mer-only12:07
x29a_finally the n810 is online12:07
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zakkmx29a: hows it going?12:07
zakkmi wish i had a n810 so much now12:07
zakkmshould of bought one12:08
woglindei wish I had the touchbook now12:08
wazdhello everybody12:08
x29azakkm: im facing internal network problems, slow things down12:08
x29awazzup wazd12:08
Stskeepsmorning wazd12:09
woglindezakkm ->
x29azakkm: think i will flash a fresh maemo to internal storage first, then do mer installing on internal sd12:09
Stskeepswazd: want a mailing list for mer-ui-artwork while i'm at it?12:09
zakkmcould i signup to insane mailing lists for mer / maemo?12:10
Stskeepsthere'll be a mer-testing list soon12:10
zakkmbut even maemo itself12:10
Stskeepsah, maemo12:10
Myrttiisn't there a pyrecipe for the desktop?12:10
zakkmlike i tend to visit internettablettalk daily , and see latest posts and such12:10
zakkmbut i fear im still way behind12:11
zakkmmind linking me to a guide / signup page?12:11
wazdStskeeps: well, why not :)12:11
zakkmwhere is the wallpaper located in mer? would like to replace.. not that its not a good wallpaper ;p12:12
Stskeepsif you have 0.10 you're going to have difficulties changing it atm :P12:12
zakkmis it redone every bootup or something?12:12
zakkmi can scale to correct res?12:12
Stskeepsthe menu just isn't visible :P12:12
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zakkmsmart idea using 0.10 :D12:13
zakkmi think lcuk will be mad, i cant get it to startup :)12:14
zakkmin terminal it goes to "failed -1: canvas xsp raw mouse init failed12:14
zakkmwould there be a way for me to manually add new hildon input method, so i can have thumb keyboard?12:15
zakkmreplacing stylus12:15
Stskeepsyeah, if you write it :P12:16
ElPolloHiya. Can anyone tell me what's handling the polling for external mmc on the n810? Is it hotplug? (I want to change to location where the external mmc is mounted).12:16
zakkmStskeeps: so it just not a matter of updating the package?12:17
StskeepsElPollo: magnetic door and ke-recv12:17
zakkmthe "update package to mer" guide?12:17
zakkmexcept not uploading12:17
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zakkmAHH arora i cant type at all, no input method comes up12:18
Meiz_n810but it doesn't crash :P12:19
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zakkmwell on a n810 i would so love it12:20
zakkmbeen just clicking bookmarks12:20
zakkmbut on a n800, does me no good12:20
zakkmMeiz_n810: any other stuff worth trying?12:21
ElPolloStskeeps: Ah thanks!12:22
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zakkmahh snap rotation just screwed me up12:23
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zakkmhey this is going out in the dark but if i use my f-to-f usb .. would a usb keyboard be recognized in mer?12:25
lcukzakkm, cant get what to startup12:26
zakkmit doesnt recognize it at all?12:26
lcukahhh you are in mer and trying to use liqbase12:28
zakkmyup :)12:28
zakkmwanted to test apps12:29
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lcukheh, theres more incompatible on mer :(12:29
lcuki think12:29
Stskeepswazd: it will be on in 24 hours or so12:29
woglindehi lcuk12:29
* lcuk throws an xv overlay @ stskeeps12:29
zakkmone of my fave apps, and thats only because i use mplayer for vid watching(teenager here..) and i need web browser :D12:29
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lcukhi woglinde12:30
zakkmStskeeps: is that all the mailing lists?!??!?!12:30
Stskeepszakkm: on garage..12:30
zakkmis there main ones?12:30
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zakkmlike memos/thoughts perhaps.. these seem to be package specific and commit changes12:30
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zakkmwhats the difference between soft poweroff and switch off?12:31
x29asoft poweroff is like standby i think12:33
x29aor hibernate12:33
* Stskeeps ponders if we just crashed garage12:33
x29ait doesnt need to boot afterwards12:33
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zakkmx29a: how goes mer?12:42
x29anot at all12:42
x29aive got a fresh maemo in my flash now12:43
x29abut my network has the hickups12:43
x29anon n810 related problem12:43
zakkmdoesnt go fast enough?12:43
x29adoesnt work at all12:43
x29aits some weird router<->router communication or something12:43
x29aim switching to my mobile isp right now, that should be slow but work12:44
zakkmexpensive too isnt it?12:45
wazdwow, OMAP3 can handle shaders 2.0!12:45
x29azakkm: downloading the installer again12:45
zakkmStskeeps: would installing "xserver-xomap" give any advant/disadvantages?12:46
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wazdWhy no shaders in Maemo 5 UI then :(12:46
zakkmcause its still slow ;p12:46
zakkmits still alpha isnt it?12:47
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floriangood morning12:54
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zakyay xchat in mer ;p12:55
JaffaMorning, all12:57
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* ElPollo wonders about the mmc stuff in af-defines13:01
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wazdflorian, Jaffa: morning13:03
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Stskeepszakkm: no HIM13:09
zakkmStskeeps:for what?13:10
StskeepsJaffa: neatojones was looking for you - he had quite an interesting idea regarding autohildonization13:10
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Stskeepszakkm: in general13:10
Myrttino you13:10
zakkmoh i will lose him if i do that13:10
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zakkmwish i had a n810, would make mer so much more useful13:12
zakkmwill it ever have thumb keyboard as good as maemo13:14
Stskeepswe hope so13:14
zakkmabiword started up13:15
zakkmno HIM :(13:15
x29aStskeeps: finally installed the installer, running that now, then booting back to flash and changing the bootmenu or?13:18
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x29aor should i change the bootmenu before even running the bootmenu installer?13:18
zakkmx29a : :o still working on it13:19
x29amy mobile isp is at 5kb/s13:19
Stskeepsx29a: i would do it in between bootmenu installer and installing mer13:20
x29azakkm: can i download the .10 image to my laptop and adjust URL= so i dont have to load it with my mobile isp?13:21
Stskeepsbut it has to have a http server on it :P13:21
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zakkmsorry i left, x29a you do realize im no expert, and stskeeps i believe is the main maintainer of mer13:24
x29ayeah, i also figured he will read along13:24
zakkmtrue say13:24
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zakkmguess mer isn;t for me yet.13:29
zakkmno HIM, well for the most part cant do much13:29
Stskeepsit's sadly not 1.0, but we're moving right ahead13:29
Stskeepsplease file bugs on the issues you met.13:29
zakkmohh its moving fast13:30
Stskeepselse we won't be able to fix the13:30
zakkmdo they have to be like proper documentation13:30
zakkmbug reports13:30
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Stskeepsjust indicate what problems you ran into13:31
Stskeepsin a bug report for each13:31
Stskeeps.. ok, i guess i should edit versions, hmm13:31
Stskeepsandre__: ping13:31
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ElPolloCan I boot mer from other partitions than the 1st one?13:32
KhertanHello !13:34
x29aopenssh or dropbear sshd?13:34
RazumihinDamn :)13:34
RazumihinHmm... anyone got idea why dpkg-buildpackage does not work on MicroB repos in scratchbox.13:35
Razumihin(i'm trying to build google gears)13:36
ElPolloI've installed mer on my n810 on mmc 0 partition 3, but after a few seconds, after selecting it from the bootmenu, it powercycles. Unfortunately I cannot see an error, so I'm having troubles figuring out what's wrong.13:37
StskeepsElPollo: ok, can you check if /dev/mmcblk0p2 exists?13:38
ElPollommcblk0p1 is an vfat partition, mmcblk0p2 is a swap parition and mmcblk0p3 is an ext3 partition.13:38
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ElPolloFrom maemo I can mount the p1 and p3.13:39
Stskeepsand you used the installer?13:39
Stskeepssimple or advanced?13:39
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ElPolloI used the installer, but partitioned before starting the installer and skipped the partitioning part in the installer.13:40
Stskeepscan you show me the /etc/bootmenu.d/ .item file?13:41
zakkmhow come everyone owns a n810 ;p13:42
zakkmi feel left out13:42
Stskeepsi own a n800.13:42
zakkmoh really13:42
Stskeepsi had to borrow a n810 to patch mer for it.13:42
xntI have a N81013:42
xntim going to buy an n800 for the hell of it, and to have a spare nit :)13:43
zakkmwant to buy mine? :D13:43
xntzakkm:can't: don't have enough money :( , but im still saving up:)13:44
ElPolloStskeeps: want a specific line? or the complete file?13:44
* Myrtti is one of the weirdos that prefer n80013:44
StskeepsElPollo: whole file13:44
StskeepsMyrtti: i'm not too fond of the n810 kbd else13:44
zakkm$150 cdn for tablet with f-f adapter and case etc13:44
RazumihinMyrtti: It has bigger screen i think?13:44
StskeepsElPollo: just pastebin it on
zakkmi hate touchscreen keyboards.13:45
* xnt had to use his n810's soft kb to avoid waking up his parents, with hw kb clicking noise, and knows nows how n800 users feel with no hw kb :)13:45
RazumihinSame here... but if i could choose N810 would be 6 inches not four...13:45
x29aStskeeps: the internal flash doesnt need an .item or?13:46
xntx29a: its in the bootmenu.conf13:46
Stskeepsx29a: failsafe, it's always in the bootmenu.conf13:46
x29aah ok, so the .item in bootmenu.d are just extra entries?13:46
x29avery good13:46
StskeepsElPollo: ok, internal or external card?13:46
* zakkm learns xnt needs a soundproof house :)13:46
x29aor move out13:46
ElPolloStskeeps: internal13:46
StskeepsElPollo: edit the file and make it say ${INT_CARD} instead of mmcblk013:46
Stskeepsand then run refresh_bootmenu.d13:47
* xnt can't because he is in the 8th grade :(13:47
Stskeepsdo me a favour and check if /linuxrc exists on p3 first though13:47
zakkm8th grade? wow13:47
* zakkm is in 12th13:47
xntyeah . alot of people here are in highschool.13:48
zakkmwould of thought a ipod community would have more ;p13:48
RazumihinOh, I am in the oldies section as university student? :)13:49
ElPolloStskeeps: hum... stupid question, but how do I modprobe ext2 from maemo?13:49
x29asmart kiddos around13:49
MyrttiRazumihin: no13:49
* zakkm will trade his n800 + $50 for a n810 :D13:50
StskeepsRazumihin: i'm writing my masters thesis :P13:50
x29aStskeeps: installed bootloader, now installing MER, i hope13:50
RazumihinOk :)13:50
StskeepsElPollo: insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/{mbcache,jbd,ext3}.ko13:50
x29aStskeeps: go with advanced?13:51
* Myrtti feels old13:51
x29aMyrtti: whats your age again?13:51
ElPolloStskeeps: Ah. k. (installer did that for me earlier ;))13:51
Stskeepsx29a: simple13:51
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StskeepsMyrtti: if i recall your age correctly my fiancee is actually older than you, heh13:51
RazumihinDamn this scratchbox is confusing... I think i failed somewhere pretty well...13:52
Myrttix29a: GCS/ED/FA/H/P/S/L/O d- s:+ a28 C++ UL+ P+ L+++ E W+++ N+ o K+ w+(---) !O M?>+ V? PS++>$ PE>$ Y+ PGP- t+ 5+++ X+ R tv- b+++ DI++++ D-- G e>+++ h- r x+13:52
zakkmwtf is that :P13:52
Stskeepsah, ze geek code13:52
ElPolloStstkeeps: /linuxrc exists.. Trying bootmenu change.13:52
Myrttidon't recognize geekcode13:53
pundiramitdoes geek code still exist? i heard they dont update/use it any more13:53
StskeepsMyrtti: ok, one year difference13:53
RazumihinHmh... do i even need MicroB to compile plugin packages for it...13:53
xntHes 28 :P13:54
RazumihinSome thorough developers manual for maemo would be great.13:54
StskeepsRazumihin: it's impossible to document everything really13:55
RazumihinStskeeps: Yes. I know. It's always this with new platform13:55
ElPolloStskeeps: Ah.. The INT_CARD var did the trick. Why's that?13:55
RazumihinOne must learn by trial and error.13:55
ElPolloMaemo uses different device map?13:56
StskeepsElPollo: kernel bug, there's a discussion somewhere about it on iTT13:56
StskeepsElPollo: please report the bug :)13:56
Stskeepsit should write INT_CARD, not mmcblk013:56
Stskeepsmmcblkwhatever does -not- belong in bootmenu conf13:56
RazumihinThe idea of getting involved in maemo platform for me was to port despotify on it :)13:56
t3odorHi, this is out of deve-focus - but can N810 wlan act as AP to setup phone-connection sharing ? if does, any guides to do that ?13:57
ElPolloStskeeps: Report the bug to whom? :P13:57
x29adownloading rootstrap13:57
ElPolloStskeeps: Oki. Thanks! :)13:57
StskeepsRazumihin: worthwhile cause13:58
RazumihinStskeeps: Yes. I think it would bring lot's of new users to this platform.13:59
Razumihin(and maybe it would help nokia to realize that linux is better platform than symbian...)14:00
StskeepsDespotify has been blocked for users using 'Free' accounts.14:00
StskeepsYou can still use Despotify using 'Premium' accounts.14:00
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RazumihinYes. I bought the premium to develop.14:01
Razumihin(and use spotify at work as I just can't risk using p2p in our firm)14:01
Stskeepsi use extensively personally :P14:02
Stskeepsi will hug the person who ports something like thelastripper.14:02
RazumihinIt might be nice also.14:02
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Stskeeps(imagine offline ..)14:03
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RazumihinI like spotify better because of the sound quality and the possibility to choose your songs one by one14:03
xnthas anyone ported EtherApe?14:03
Stskeepsthere's no spotify in .dk afaik, so14:03
RazumihinYes :/14:04
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RazumihinYou coulduse despotify if you can get an account.14:04
Stskeepson the other hand, recording from radio -is- legal in .dk14:04
Razumihin(as you can select the contrycode yourself  :))14:04
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RazumihinOk. Let's see now i should have working google gears.14:05
x29aStskeeps: mer installer simple will put the system to p3 or?14:05
Razumihin...or crashing browser.14:05
Stskeepsand swap on p2 and a fat on p114:05
x29aextracting rootfs14:05
x29ai overheard linuxrc, so could i in principle just extract an gentoo-arm tarball to the partition and boot that?14:06
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zakkmis maemo quicker, booting from sd vs internal flash?14:07
xntStskeeps: Whats the difference between the Mer bootmenu, and the deblet bootmenu?14:07
Stskeepsxnt: nothing whatsoever14:07
Stskeepsit is actually "bootmenu svn"14:07
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zakkmStskeeps: you know if i can get mer liberty theme for maemo?14:09
RazumihinOk.. crashing browser. Let's try this again...14:09
Stskeepszakkm: i think so, but i'm not sure where it is14:09
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xntStskeeps: Nice work :)14:16
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xntjust like that guide that stskeeps posted, I have small fingers :), I barely use my stylus14:17
zakkmheh 0.10 ui looks alot better14:18
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xntzakkm: where? do you have it? (wasn't 0.10 dropped?)14:19
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zakkmit was internal.14:19
xntzakkm: do you have a screenshot?14:19
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Stskeepsxnt: ah, your screenshot14:21
xntzakkm: yeah its better :)14:21
xntStskeeps: I installed Mer in vmware server, and it works fine, so  I wanted to compliment you in its adaptability :)14:22
Stskeepsxnt: ah, yes, it's intended to be used like that :)14:22
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xntStskeeps: ok, and btw are there any plans for a powerpc (cell) port?14:23
Stskeepsxnt: we did have plans for a wii port, but i don't have a powerpc builder running14:24
xntStskeeps: no a ps3 port (cell = ps3 processor) the ps3 can run ubuntu
Stskeepsxnt: yeah, i know14:25
xntStskeeps: so I can just cross compile it for the ps3?14:26
Stskeepsubuntu has a powerpc port. it's pretty trivial to get it porting, but i just don't have a builder going14:26
xntor compile it on the ps314:26
xntok :)14:26
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xntI just saw that ps3 on tabletui, and I said, that mer+ps3+controller drivers=fun14:28
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xntHow about an alternative xmb style interface?14:29
xntok I have to go to school :P14:30
lcukwhy does mer remind me more of os200714:31
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Stskeepslcuk: because of the icons14:31
lcukthat would explain it14:31
lcukmornin btw14:31
ElPolloAny plans for having mer run on JFFS2?14:34
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StskeepsElPollo: it already does14:35
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Stskeepsmorning timelE61i14:35
zakkmis it slower off jffs2?14:35
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ElPolloStskeeps: It does? I thought I just installed it on an ext3 part.14:36
StskeepsElPollo: we have a .jffs file too but it's more experimental and will naturally overwrite your maemo :P14:36
ElPolloStskeeps: EXT3 it is, then. :P14:37
StskeepsElPollo: ta for the bug report btw, added it to the list14:37
lcuki suppose that would force people to stick at it14:37
Stskeepsoh dear god, not another flash-in-mer discussion14:38
zakkmanywho know why mediabox doesnt like to connect to internet?14:39
zakkmit will find out about stuff but wont play ;p14:39
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zakkmanyone have mplayer in mer?14:42
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thopiekarI started a adhoc-net with my n800.. is there a way to see all ip's which are connected to my device?15:06
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ElPollothopiekar: Euh... perhaps a broadcast ping, or a nmap sweep. I don't know of any OOB method.15:11
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lcukthopiekar, i keep wanting the same, i see i have "something" ocnnected because it opens up but i dont know which machine ive left wifi enabled on15:13
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thopiekaris nmap available in maemo.repos?15:14
thopiekarit don't seem so..15:14
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* thopiekar isn't using extra-repos because he hates adding these extra repos and removing them when they are offline.. every repo-manitainer should add his stable packages at maemo-repos and unstable at his own if he want..15:17
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thopiekarlcuk: "lanmap" would be nice to provide on nit'S.. it is able to show your network in 2D (by graphviz it think)..15:21
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thopiekarbtw graphviz.. where is jeremaid...15:21
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lcukthopiekar, i can think of something i would like t orender it to - i was discussing an app using liqbase with someone last night which may provide similar network overviews15:29
StskeepsX-Fade: ping15:29
ElPollolanmap... will it compile? (atm it won't even check out :()15:29
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ElPollothopiekar: about nmap, you could also download the deb to your tablet and install it from file. That way you don't need extra repos.15:30
thopiekarElPollo: what about updates.. my app manager should care about that and not I..15:31
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* thopiekar is learning now for a class test.. 15:32
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JaffaStskeeps: oh, what was neatojones' idea?15:45
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neatojoneshey Jaffa15:45
neatojonesjust a sec15:45
Jaffalo neatojones15:45
thopiekar[afk]hi all15:45
neatojoneshave you seen globalmen for gnome?15:46
JaffaNo; is it like an OS X menu bar thing?15:46
JaffaAha, yes.15:47
neatojonesyeah.  But, basically if we implemented the same concept...15:47
neatojoneswe could get away without having to hildonize apps15:47
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thopiekar[afk]neatojones: +15:48
JaffaThis is what Nokia should''ve done15:48
neatojonesWe just need to take the same sort of idea and put the menu into a dropdown instead of a menu bar15:48
neatojonesis there anyway we can do this?15:48
zakkmnot all apps work with globalmenu.15:48
neatojonesHildon really needs it15:49
neatojonesfirefox and others down15:49
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neatojonesbut firefox and openoffice are too big for us and could be individually hildonized as before15:49
Jaffaneatojones: it's also fairly simple (theoretically) with LD_PRELOAD to intercept calls to GtkMenuBar being added to GtkWindow and turn them into hildin_menu calls to HildonWindows15:49
neatojonesbut, now, we don't waste time hildonizing everything15:49
neatojonesJaffa:  The other important things is that once we hildonize apps15:49
neatojoneswe can't use them in lxde or gnome or e1715:50
JaffaHildonizing is still useful for getting a usable mobile UI, but doing auto-menu bars and auto HildonWindows will help in things like Mer15:50
neatojonesthey are missing their menus15:50
neatojonesso, our current method is a bad solution.15:50
neatojonesI also had another idea...but I don't recall it atm.15:50
lcukjaffa +1, running a native gtk application and having it appear in the deskt opand be usable with the hildon bits without specific package/app modifications would be a major benefit15:51
neatojonesStskeeps... do you remember what the other part was?15:51
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lcuka centralized menu however wouldnt be useful since only one app at a time is shown15:51
Stskeepsneatojones: can dig out the log if you want me to15:51
neatojonesnah...I could do that15:51
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allenhi, all15:52
thopiekar[afk]hi allen15:52
ElPollolcuk: isn't that the whole purpose of the globalmenu; providing the menu for the app currently focussed?15:53
neatojonesoh.  Since we are making a top bar (and doing away with the side bar).  What is keeping us from resuming compatability with gtk themeing for hildon?15:53
neatojonesie:  The top bar ought to be able to use the same theme as gtk15:53
neatojonestheming seems a bit more complex than it will need to be currently.15:54
Stskeepsneatojones: mm, that part is a bit of a can of worms though, cos of h-d15:54
lcukElPollo, isnt that what a menu does anyway?15:54
neatojonesThat's what I was thinking.15:54
allenVDVsx: hi, I am intresting in the SocialApp based on OpenSocial project applied to gsoc 200915:54
neatojonesBut, it seems like the newer style ought to allow better compatability.15:54
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neatojoneswe had to theme specific things in the previous version, like the side bar and that tray bar.15:55
allenVDVsx: ping?15:55
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VDVsxallen, hi15:55
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neatojonesthe single bar, could fix that.15:55
ElPollolcuk: it does, but normally inside the application. Afaik globalmenu is the MacOS way of handling menu's.15:55
allenVDVsx: I am intresting in the SocialApp based on OpenSocial project applied to gsoc 200915:55
x29aim impressed15:55
zakkmMacOSX rules :)15:55
x29amer looks really nice15:55
zakkmglobalmenu was created to mimic mac's15:56
zakkmyears ago ;p15:56
zakkmx29a: you got it installed?15:56
Stskeepsx29a: not thanks to me, thanks to the artists in residence :P15:56
neatojonesyeah.  what we have in hildon is teh same concept as globalmenu15:57
x29azakkm: yepp, crashed twice already and nm is beeing a pita, but looks nice15:57
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x29athe "delay" i read somewhere is not lack of ressources but some driverissue?15:57
zakkmno hildon is different ;p15:57
Stskeepsx29a: "delay"?15:57
zakkmbad X ;p15:58
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x29aStskeeps: you do the things that make the nice look possible, right?15:58
zakkmnm was perfect for me?15:58
x29aStskeeps: the interface seems slow15:58
Stskeepsx29a: ah, yes, xserver issue15:58
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* lcuk would drag xserver kicking and screaming from diablo but i dont know the first thing about how :$15:59
zakkmme r 1.0 will be awesome :)15:59
ElPolloneatojones: if the menu can be 'caught' and put under the menu button without having to alter the code of the application, then that would be quite a nice feature.15:59
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x29aStskeeps: which part do you want documented? basically getting the install information out of the 0.9sprint into an own article?15:59
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neatojonesCan we borrow from globalmenu or something?16:00
Stskeepsx29a: just document the process of making your SD item16:00
neatojonesthey already do exactly that.  They even have the ability to do dropdown16:00
* zakkm lost his 4gb sd card16:00
x29azakkm: due to defect or literally lost it?16:00
neatojonesI accidentally compiled with the wrong flags once a year or so ago and got a drop down by acccident16:00
x29aStskeeps: ok, easypeasy16:00
neatojonesI have used it since16:00
zakkmliteraly lsot it16:02
zakkmi cant find it16:02
zakkmi put it on the table, cause i didnt want it to get erased while partitioning, formatting etc16:02
zakkmlike two weeks ago16:02
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zakkmand my nokias not been working and ive been too busy and now i cant find it anywhere16:02
neatojonesanyway.  I think we need to do something because we currently have a poor solution for the long run.  It'll be much easier to get new apps included if we don't have to modify for hildon...and like I said, once you hildonize, you can't use the apps for other window managers (ie mer using e17 or lxde)16:03
lcukmicro sd ones are worst for that16:03
lcukif you abandon the need for hildon you need a new window manager - cos i think it only lists hildon apps as available16:04
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lcukthats not a bad thing at all16:04
mgedminhe he16:04
lcuks/new window manager/modification to the WM/16:04
mgedminI always put minisd cards into those large plastic cases so they wouldn't get lost16:04
infobotmgedmin meant: I always put microsd cards into those large plastic cases so they wouldn't get lost16:05
mgedminwell, both actually16:05
mgedmininfobot: don't you think people here have learned what s/foo/bar/ means by now?16:05
x29agarage fail: Warning: eregi() [function.eregi]: REG_BADRPT in /usr/local/gforge_v4_5_20/www/account/register.php on line 7416:05
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lcukat least 5 1/4 and 3.5 inch floppies couldnt easily be swallowed or lost16:05
mgedminjust bent16:05
ElPolloDo you really need to abandon hildon? Or can you also put a layer between hildon and the application to transfer a gtk menu to a hildon menu without having to alter the code? (the same way globalmenu does)16:06
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lcuki tohught about making a little box for micro sd cards like you used to flip through for floppies16:06
lcukbut then i wondered how to get labels made for em16:06
* mgedmin used to have multiple boxes of unlabeled foppies16:07
mgedminthe contents changed all the time anyway16:07
lcuki could recognise floppies from the general markings on them - torn off label bits and marks and stuff16:07
neatojonesElPollo: I don't think you need to abandon hildon16:07
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ElPolloneatojones: Lol.. (that was my point). should've mentioned it was a reply to lcuk.16:08
lcukneatojones, if apps are already hildonized you dont want to have to redo it16:08
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lcuktheres nothing *wrong* with it as it stands now for apps, it just helps for future to be able to just use the generic offered features of apps without having to specifically mention its hildon16:09
neatojonesyeah. I understand16:09
JaffaElPollo: I think we can do that with LD_PRELOAD, yes.16:09
neatojoneslcuk, I misread before.16:09
neatojoneslcuck:  That would be important16:09
lcukanyway bbiab16:09
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neatojoneseventually, if new hildon apps are created with the new style, it won't matter.16:10
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neatojonesold ones will get replaced.  But we do need a fix for now.16:11
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x29aStskeeps: wonna keep the installer information in the 0.9sprint or should i start an article on how to install mer right away?16:22
Stskeepsi guess it could be useful to start putting things in Documentation/16:23
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Stskeepswazd: had that 64 by 64 for me?16:39
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Stskeepsjust so i can test that's actually the problem16:39
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rmtSo.. SB2 .. it emulates a read only filesystem?17:23
StsN802no, just non-root user17:24
StsN802use sb2 -R for root functions17:25
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rmtsb2 -R apt-get update reveals:   Could not open file /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/repository.maemo.org_dists_diablo_sdk_free_binary-i386_Packages - open (30 Read-only file system)17:26
rmtRunning this in a 32bit ubuntu chroot.17:26
rmtI'm either being very daft (a possibility) or it's doing some very funny stuff.17:27
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jumpularmt: sb2 -eR17:29
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ElPollo:S mer connection manager is giving me a headache. :P17:41
Stskeepsnetworkmanager. the open source way to kill all hope in humanity17:41
ElPolloHeheheh :D17:42
rmtThe way some connections just become unmanaged, and there's no obvious way to re-manage them..17:43
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ElPolloTry setting up an ad-hoc connection with manual ipv4 parameters :P17:44
ElPollo(I think I will stick to the killall nm-applet && iwconfig wlan0 way for now)17:45
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pupnikSaturday April 04, Eindhoven:  Aphex Twin, Florian Hecker, Venetian Squares, Luke Vibert, Tim Exile, Squarepusher
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hhahloMeizirkki: Moi17:57
x29a_hehe,nice, vnc to big pc17:57
hhahloCan scratchbox use 4 or more cores?17:58
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ElPolloDoes the n810 have some magical 'vulcan neckgrip' to reboot the device?18:00
Meizirkkihhahlo, Moro18:00
qwerty12ElPollo, poppin' the battery18:00
ElPolloqwerty12: I was afraid someone would say that. :P18:01
qwerty12Hehe :P18:01
StskeepsElPollo: even the power button is all in software :P18:02
ElPolloStskeeps: I'm missing the sysrq key :P At least then I would be able to eject the kernel (well, I would need an ALT key too).18:03
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ElPolloubuntu: shift+alt+printscrn+b18:04
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hhahloMer is kind of ubuntu, maybe sysrq works mer?18:07
Stskeepsneeds to be in kernel18:07
hhahloforgot that mer got diabolic kernel18:08
qwerty12nokia_2420_defconfig has CONFIG_MAGIC_SYSRQ enabled18:08
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Stskeepsqwerty12: can you be lured to head up patching a kernel source tree with rndis, rotation and whatever else would be really useful fixes (48mhz patch might be damaging for the internal mmc..)18:10
Stskeepsso we can bundle that with mer18:10
qwerty12Bah, is the shit :p18:10
qwerty12But sure18:10
Stskeepsta, much appreciated :)18:11
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RST38hmoo all18:32
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RST38hSts: How are things? Got full UI running in MeR? =)18:37
Stskeepswaiting for 64x64 icons18:37
vasily_pupkinis curl for n810 aviable?18:38
vasily_pupkin(precompiled with the deb)18:38
Stskeepsoh dear god.
pupniki built curl a while back, so it is possible18:39
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vasily_pupkinYes, i know that it's possible ^_^18:39
pupnikStskeeps: ++18:40
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RST38hSts: ugly! don't let lcuk near it! =)18:42
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wazdI'm back)18:46
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GeneralAntillesHa, everybody is completely ambivalent to everything on Planet. ;)18:47
wazdTried to learn flash for UI prototyping)18:47
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: the hearts and thumbs down doesn't work18:47
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, I know, but it still looks funny.18:47
timelE61iOur latest release has an awesome feature18:48
GeneralAntillesExploding devices?18:48
timelE61iYou're limited in window count to sides of a cube18:48
Stskeepsah. you're including compiz?18:48
timelE61iSo if you've filled your cube and open a window, you get an emptyish window18:48
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GeneralAntillesWell, that'd be one way to help keep RAM usage down.18:48
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timelE61iIf it crashes, you get another emptyish window from crash reporter18:49
timelE61i- yes, i did that18:49
slonopotamusdouble :D :D18:49
RST38hheya wazd18:49
timelE61ioh, each nested dialog is assigned its own cube face :)18:49
timelE61iThe cube fwiw is hypothetical, but it accurately describes the window limit18:50
* RST38h preficts a total snafu when this is released18:50
RST38hwazd: Still no chance to look at those ti83+ and ti82 images btw? I can probably put the selection menu together on my own but those two only you can do =)18:52
JaffaGeneralAntilles: is it broken again?18:53
GeneralAntillesJaffa, seems so, though it doesn't pretend to be working this time.18:53
wazdRST38h: Hey, I'll try to finish them tonight18:53
timelE61ii suppose a cube face is better than the sdk demo...18:53
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timelE61iExcept the sdk probably allowed 8 nested dialogs from a single broken app :)18:54
Stskeepswe didn't have task switching afaik :P18:54
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ilovemistakeshi all. i can18:55
ilovemistakesi cant find any info about liblocation, is it closed library?18:56
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VDVsxStskeeps, uploaded gconf219:00
Stskeepsalright, ta, i'll take a look19:00
StskeepsVDVsx: remember to reinstate the 1:19:02
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Sebwhere can I find some doc on changing the way my n800 mount various partitions on the different /media/mmcX ?19:02
VDVsxStskeeps, ah, ok19:02
StskeepsVDVsx: otherwise looks good, tell me when the 1: is committed and i'll merge19:03
ilovemistakesVDVsx: thanks. i see that it can be used only on maemo platform. so, i cant use it on my laptop, right? and i can't use it's source code in my app19:03
Sebit insists on mounting mmcblk0p1 on /media/mcc2, how could I change that ?19:03
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, docs aren't complete yet.19:03
VDVsxilovemistakes, I dunno if will be open sourced, but is under development now, as GeneralAntilles said the docs are incomplete19:05
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, I thought that was a comment on the state of the docs. . . .19:06
ilovemistakesVDVsx: hmm. i can use liblocation on diablo 4.1.2 sdk.19:06
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, :P19:07
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VDVsxStskeeps, pushed19:07
StskeepsVDVsx: ta19:07
VDVsxilovemistakes, only in fremantle alpha, I think19:07
VDVsxStskeeps, you have to explain me the meaning of the 1: and 2: in the package versions :P19:09
VDVsxis to avoid conflits with the jaunty packages ?19:10
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ilovemistakesVDVsx: i've read out some examples from diablo sdk reference manual. [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > ls /usr/include/location/19:10
ilovemistakeslocation-bt-device-manager.h  location-bt-helper.h  location-distance-utils.h  location-gps-device.h  location-gpsd-control.h  location-misc.h19:10
ilovemistakesSo, it's usable in stable version. quiestion is how can i use it ouside maemo. it seems noway. =(19:10
StskeepsVDVsx: yeah, more like, convince the jaunty packages we're on a higher version..19:10
StskeepsVDVsx: (i need to make a list of packages we do -really- dirty tricks in)19:11
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Stskeepsgconf is one of them :P19:12
slonopotamusStskeeps, could you please point me @ bluetooth init code?19:13
Stskeepsslonopotamus: i'm not sure we have any. it's in linuxrc19:14
Stskeepsand maybe in boot basics19:14
StskeepsVDVsx: ta, sent to builder, updating in table19:15
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ilovemistakeswell, liblocation is a really nice wrapper for gps. but i want to make my maemo application work on x86 linux and i don't want to write liblocation's replacement. the only solution i see is to give up liblocation and use my own wrapper for gpsd, that work both under maemo and x86 linux. may be there is another solution?19:17
Stskeepsyou have your own wrapper?19:18
ilovemistakesnot yet =019:18
RST38hwazd: cool =)19:18
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* RST38h will try to do the menu then, although his artistic abilities are close to nil19:18
slonopotamusprogramming is all about wrappers :)19:19
RST38hslono: rather "wrapper programming is all about wrappers" =)19:19
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slonopotamusi hate that i cannot click someone's nickname to add it to message box in xchat :(19:22
slonopotamusRST38h, nope. just everything :)19:22
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GeneralAntillesilovemistakes, at the very least it'd be a good justification for opening it up.19:23
GeneralAntillesilovemistakes, mind filing an enhancement request for on
ssvbStskeeps: sound does not really depend on DSP, at least for 770:
Stskeepsssvb: hmm, that's interesting19:23
ssvbStskeeps: that's also one of my unfinished projects...19:24
ilovemistakesGeneralAntilles: "plz open liblocation lib" is an enhancement? =)19:24
GeneralAntillesilovemistakes, with proper grammer and spelling and a good justification, yes.19:24
Stskeepsssvb: if nokia didn't have to argue with TI over it, it could be a good thing i guess19:25
ssvbStskeeps: the problem is that new kernels use asoc framework and the audio drivers are rewritten, so here is a dilemma whether to fix old driver in 2.6.16 or start hacking asoc stuff19:25
ssvbStskeeps: what about TI?19:26
Stskeepsssvb: well (as far as i know) they're talking with TI to allow distribution of the DSP tasks, but if we can bypass that it wouldn't be bad19:26
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ilovemistakesGeneralAntilles: thanks, maybe some day. now it takes less time to write my own wrapper =) it's my graduation project19:27
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GeneralAntillesilovemistakes, the likelihood of success goes down the longer you wait.19:27
ssvbStskeeps: maybe it is possible to implement switching ownership of audio hardware between asm and dsp at runtime, so that binary codecs are not completely lost19:28
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slonopotamusStskeeps, i found a funny thing - gtk already has hooks for virtual kb without any patches. at-spi.19:28
Stskeepsslonopotamus: yeah, but this is recent19:28
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slonopotamusStskeeps, how recent? it is supported in java and too, and it is pretty slow in catching up with new stuff19:29
ssvbStskeeps: also C55x toolchain got recently updated, a good thing about it is that it has better license and the latest version of compiler19:30
Stskeepsslonopotamus: as in, HIM was written before this came in :P19:31
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Stskeepsssvb: sounds interesting, .. a bit out of my personal range, so someone should look at it19:31
derfssvb: Link?19:31
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ssvbderf: link is all the same, it should be in maemo wiki dspprogramming page19:32
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slonopotamusStskeeps, it means that i won't need any 'slono-gentoo-whatever-zation' to have vkb work in all apps, i think.19:35
Stskeepsslonopotamus: k19:35
lardmanderf: yep it's on the dsp programming page, I updated it the other day19:35
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Stskeepsssvb: n800 is CONFIG_SPI_TSC2301_AUDIO , n810 is CONFIG_SND_AIC3319:36
lardmanshame the cpufreq stuff is broken for the omap2 in the latest kernels19:36
ssvbderf: just go to the mailing list archive thread that I have linked19:36
Stskeepslardman: happen to know if DSP tasks are required to play sound?19:36
Stskeepslike, in general19:36
Stskeepsthey are? well, bollocks, i guess19:37
pupnik  Vacuum Tubes for sale.  Glass Removed For Cleaning!19:37
lardmanunless you happen to have the Linux kernel side driver compiled in, but I'm not sure there's one handy for the n81019:37
Stskeepslardman: there's a AIC33 thing19:37
ssvblardman: have you tried a new dsp toolchain already?19:37
lardmanssvb: no, not yet19:37
lardmanssvb: but I was talking to someone the other day who has (as the old one is now gone)19:38
lardmanStskeeps: wasn't solca trying to get the audio driver working, I think it's ok on the n800 (or at least I seem to remember thinking that)19:38
Stskeepsi'll prod him19:39
lardmanI started chatting to him, was looking to get the driver working on the n810, but ran out of time + the omap2 stuff is deprecated now apparently19:39
lardmanwhich is a bit crap19:39
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lardmanit wuold be interesting to know if Nokia used the n810 at all for the Fremantle backend development, and therefore if they had an ARM-side kernel driver working19:40
lardmanhome time, bbl19:42
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wazdWeeee, I've made my very first flash UI demo :D19:49
wazdIt's 3 seconds long but I totaly love it xD19:50
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wazdUploading it to YouTube)19:50
RST38hnow, we just need to persuade nokia to drop clutter for flash...19:51
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wazdWell, flash is nice tech for demoing but not for real UI :)19:52
RST38hAdobe seems to think otherwise :)19:53
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wazdRST38h: well. Ihe doesn't look like Putin :\20:06
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vasily_pupkinanybody know where i can find recent debian devkit for scratchbox?20:12
RST38hwazd: that was my thought as well20:12
RST38hwazd: the whole thing is just too good to be true =)20:12
* hanno is going to ask the repeating question again, sorry.20:13
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hannoSo I can as well ask if there is a place that keeps an FAQ on this.20:14
hannoWhen will the next Maemo hardware ship?20:14
hannoI keep checking itt, but there's no faq location.20:14
Stskeepshanno: no clue. we're waiting too.20:14
* hanno really wants that device.20:15
hannothe mystical n810 successor.20:15
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Shadow__Xi love my n810 its a portable mini linux boxie for me20:16
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Shadow__Xi wouldnt mind beable to watch videos on it without convrting though20:16
thopiekar[afk]hmm I don't know, too, why nokia has such problems giving even a date for the shipping..20:16
Shadow__Xalthough i do have temp solution for video20:17
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x29a_Shadow__X: what do you convert to? like resolution wise? or compression?20:21
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Shadow__Xx29a, using what method20:21
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x29ayour videos, for watching on the n810, what resolution/codec/etc. do you use?20:22
Shadow__Xwell if i am going to store them i use the nokie video converter that worked great20:22
Shadow__Xtakes care of everything20:23
Shadow__Xother than that i have used super toconvert anything and it works great20:23
Shadow__Xor just plain ffmpeg20:23
Shadow__Xfor streaming which i care more about tversity20:23
suihkulokkido accessing garage git repos work for people at the moment?20:23
Shadow__Xwhich is a on the fly compression app for  videos20:24
Shadow__Xactually on the fly encoding20:24
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ilovemistakeshi all, i have gpsd running on my host linux machine on, my app inside scratchbox fails to connect to it (gps_open: Unknown error 4294967291). is it normal?20:28
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ilovemistakeswell, if i 'netcat -l -p 12345' on my host, should i be able to 'netcat 12345' from scratchbox?20:30
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rmtSo, what uses less energy - listening to an mp3 or reading an eBook? :)20:32
Stskeepsat the volume i'm listening to them the first20:32
ShadowJKstreaming an mp3 definitely uses most power :)20:33
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ShadowJKunless you're constantly smoothscroling i'd suspect mp3 uses more...20:34
rmtSo far, I'm quite happy with the battery life .. it lasts a whole day with me fiddling throughout. Once I get over the new toy syndrome, it will probably last 3-4. ;)20:34
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ShadowJKfor constant webbrowsing it lasts me maybe 6 hours20:36
fireunI'd say reading an ebook, but that depends on the screen technology20:36
rmtI never constantly web browse.. my mind's far too chaotic for such things20:36
fireunmp3 decode nowdays is very optomized, also depends on the audio/cpu hardware used20:36
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ShadowJKthe CPU gets locked to 333MHz playing mp3, it'd be able to drop down to 133/idle between flipping pages20:38
rmtYup, but the screen's then in use.20:39
ShadowJKthough i imagine not many people read ebooks in .txt with less in xterm like I do20:39
ShadowJKI'll see what ftd's bme stats say when I get home :)20:40
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uE_ShadowJK: I use fbreader almost exclusively. But mainly because of the screen rotation feature20:47
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rmtI think I now have an acceptable build environment.. it's just a pity that diablo's so far behind with glib & gtk..20:48
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rmtI'll have to be careful when writing programs.20:48
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rmtI like evince.. but I wish it had edge-whitespace detection for auto zooming..20:50
* fireun reads dead tree books20:50
fireuntried fbreader, nice app n'all, just couldnt get into reading it on a tablet20:51
* fireun <- oldskool20:51
GeneralAntillesfireun, did you invert the colors?20:51
GeneralAntillesand set it up properly?20:51
fireunGeneralAntilles: nosir20:51
GeneralAntillesWhite-on-Black, get rid of the padding, fix the font, and rotate it so you can use the +/- keys for paging.20:52
fireunI do the last bit20:52
fireunrotated and using the rocker20:52
fireunwhich is nice20:52
x29aStskeeps: i started the "installing mer" article, but gotta leave now, hope thats ok20:53
fireunmaybe its the book browsing system, too klunky - I want a hulu like channel selection for reading material20:53
GeneralAntillesI really don't love dead tree books.20:53
GeneralAntillesCan't read in the dark, can't read one-handed.20:53
fireunthe second you sure can20:53
GeneralAntillesOnly if you're willing to ruin paperbacks.20:53
fireun"ruin" ?20:53
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GeneralAntillesBend the spine.20:54
fireunno, when I've sold into used book slavery the books I've read, they're always amazed I've actually read them, still look new20:54
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fireunno creased spines20:54
GeneralAntillesI can't manage it, anyway.20:54
fireunI actually take the time to pre-stress a book before I read it20:54
GeneralAntillesThe other part of it is that working retail selling books started to make me hate them. ;)20:55
GeneralAntillesEspecially paperbacks.20:55
fireunI cant "buy" ebooks either20:56
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fireunI like having a bookcase full of colorful titles20:56
fireunand ebooks are too easy to delete20:57
uE_fireun: agree mightly on the klunky library browser. Calelibre on maemo might solve that. But fbreader suffers from too much portability.20:57
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fireunfirst one in, wins20:58
* lcuk is rewriting his selecter20:58
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fireunfbreader is the "viewer"20:58
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uE_fireun: One bookcase of pretty books is fine. A house full of bookcases is excessive.21:00
lcukput up some designs for a selecter on the maemo wiki and submit patches to fbreader21:00
lcuka house built of bookcases is wicked though21:00
uE_fireun: also books like quicksilver, at over a thousand pages are unmanageable while traveling21:01
Stskeepsvivijim: - just wanted to say thanks for the cx3110x patches and much of the stuff in mamona, - it's very useful when we're doing Mer21:01
fireunhe lost me at crytonomicon21:02
fireunlcuk: I agree with you21:02
vivijimStskeeps: cool! good to know that it is helping someone :D21:02
fireunlcuk: I'd love to have a big ol "library" with the spiral staircase to the second level and all21:02
uE_lcuk: I visited a guy in NYC once who literally had every wall of his apartment covered in bookcases. Even three of the kitchen walls and one of the bathroom.21:03
Stskeepsvivijim: also helped to get cx3110x on a sane level on 770 as well, so :)21:03
lcukthis is the most innovative bookshelf ive ever seen21:03
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lcuk(the first one)21:04
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fireunlcuk: I like
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fireun(second pic)21:08
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lcukfireun, thats nice, but a bit more wasteful of space than traditional shelves21:10
* konttori_ has been adding proper support for icons in theme maker. Now 50 icons are in a template and they cover pretty much all icons that need to be supported. 21:10
konttori_probably need a bit more still, but it's pretty close to be there now.21:11
konttori_I've been using kde oxygen as the basis for the icons.21:11
konttori_so that they are nicely licensable base template21:11
konttori_unlike nokia set would be :(21:11
Stskeepskonttori_: sounds nice :)21:11
Stskeepsmeiz was looking at oxygen icons too for mer21:11
konttori_ah. nice.21:12
konttori_phew. tomorrow I'll take the device with me and make the layout template of the icons to extract correctly named icons.21:13
konttori_man. the look of the fremantle is soooo kick ass. I just saw a really nice improvement to it that happened this week that improved the visual so much.21:13
konttori_Of course cannot comment what it was, but teasing is always nice.21:14
Stskeepshehe, yeah21:14
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Stskeepswe amateurs (maybe not wazd) are playing a bit too, , mockup, but code is there, so we're slowly integrating it21:14
konttori_Stskeeps: looks really nice indeed!21:15
konttori_I mean, you guys are making tremendously cool visuals21:15
konttori_I like the menu icon a lot21:15
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Stskeepsyeah - i'm wondering when someone headhunts wazd and steals him forever :P21:16
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konttori_someone should do it!21:17
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timelE61ikontorri: do you mean the red outline w/ solid black empty dialogs :)21:21
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konttori_timelE61i: lol! well, a different thing, but that's also fun21:22
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timelE61ikOntorri: btw, helpwanted fixing the ui engineers21:23
timelE61iThey're being stupid (again)21:24
fireundid you tell em to stop it, or they wouldnt get desert?21:24
Shadow__Xdc++ for maemo21:24
Shadow__Xyes no maybe so>21:24
timelE61iI've tried to say it'll hurt the ability to sell the product21:25
Stskeepsas long as there's a hello kitty theme..21:25
timelE61iBut they insist they're experts and know what they're doing21:25
timelE61iHave you used the valentine theme'21:26
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fireunin my experience, anyone who asserts that they're an expert and know what they're doing, usually isnt so much of an expert. Experts can convince you through rational explanation.21:27
* qwerty12 has, fkn nasty21:27
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Meiz_n810Oxygen-based icon theme on Mer:
Meiz_n810i like it :)21:29
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Shadow__Xis there a way to get linux dc++ on maemo?21:31
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fireunMeiz_n810: meh21:32
lcukShadow__X, yeah, you can get the latest dc++ on your tablet, just grab the source from my hub ...21:32
Shadow__Xah ok whats your info21:33
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qwerty12Ah, so you run lcuk's porn hub!21:33
* lcuk was joking21:33
Shadow__Xso it  doesnt work21:33
lcukqwerty, ive already told you, you need to be sharing at least 120gb of high quality action with a decent ratio21:34
lcukyou failed by trying to share your windows folder21:34
timelE61ifIreun: that about covers it21:34
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fireuntimelE61i: we're past the days when programmers could do their own UI graphic elements21:36
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Shadow__Xlcuk, do you have dc running on the tablet21:39
lcukno Shadow__X, i havent fired up dc for years now (I was a classic user, never moved to ++)21:39
konttori_timelE61i: I haven't seen valentine theme21:39
Shadow__Xah just my campus uses it i prefer irc21:40
qwerty12konttori, hildon-theme-ilona in some repo21:40
* lcuk thinks it wouldv looked like slashdot omg! ponies!!21:40
qwerty12think of echo but in red and nastier21:40
fireuntimelE61i: IMHO21:41
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fireunthey generally dont make the best themes, something about artistic != logical21:42
lcukfireun, its a lot easier now to produce an eyecatching usable algorithmic ui21:42
fireuncant argue with that21:43
* ShadowJK thinks there are too many hard to use UIs around21:44
ShadowJKor rather, hard to learn UIs21:44
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konttori_Meiz_n810: those look really nice.21:45
konttori_and yeah, oxygen is a great icon theme21:46
lcukShadow__X, how many are there?21:46
konttori_Meiz_n810: the settings icon doesn't look right21:46
konttori_but it looks quite nice as the default install application icon.21:47
Shadow__Xi am pretty your your asking ShadowJK21:47
lcukyeah i am21:47
ShadowJKgenerally? loads21:47
Meiz_n810konttori: es, the control-panel is strange in my tablet right now21:47
lcukso how would you make an "easy" one?21:48
Meiz_n810konttori_: it doesn't even have a correct name21:48
lcuk(and im sure every single one started asking that question)21:48
ShadowJKon desktop it gets worse when everything wants to look and behave differently, often in the name of user friendliness. the only usewr friendly thing is to behave like the rest of things do, then the user only has to learn one set of already complicated rules21:49
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ShadowJKlcuk: i dont know the solution :)21:49
timelE61imEinz: eh?21:49
lcukchanging for the sake of it is one thing, but what of the complete change liqbase made - i personally think the complete ui changeover was worth it21:50
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ShadowJKjust from my experience trying to help/teach completely new computer users, after they've grasped how radio button slectors, drop down etc work, along comes some software that themes itself, printer software, media players, and the users no longer recognize or understand any of it21:52
* fireun nods in agreement21:53
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fireunyet there should be some allowance for change21:53
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lcuktotally understood ShadowJK and in windows i use the mouse oriented toolkit supplied21:53
ShadowJKeven though the same ui elements are basically there, it looks like a mass of pixels to them21:54
ShadowJKor it looks like the desktop background changed and they think they git a virus and then try change desktop background back21:54
vasily_pupkinis there any notifying library for maemo?21:55
vasily_pupkinand how can i put something to clipboard (like with xsel)?21:55
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lcukdunno vasily_pupkin, its x11 and gtk and normal libraries and stuff, how do you do it in regular linux21:57
vasily_pupkinI use xsel (=21:57
vasily_pupkinbut seems like maemo ignore X selection buffer21:58
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timelE61iliqbase is the only workable tablet/touch ui i've ever used22:00
timelE61iTouch voting and banking systems are also designed along similar lines22:01
timelE61iBig buttons w/ a grid22:01
timelE61iThe reason for padding between buttons there is to avoid accidental misclicks22:02
lcukvisible from orbit :)22:03
* lcuk loves that phrase22:03
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keesjI am all for location based buttons and finger memory training22:08
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keesjI CAN remember sequences like left-top-right and that is how old Nokia's worked and how Teletext works22:09
lcukkeesj, have you seen me jump around liqbase22:09
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lcukor have you played yourself22:09
keesjno not recently22:09
lcuki find it very relaxing jumping and know the locations of each menu - its like playing an instrument22:10
keesjwaching the video on your site22:10
lcuk:) its just a start.  once i get everything i want into it properly then it will be even better :)22:12
timelE61imuscle memory is good22:13
timelE61iUnless... You're taking a muscle relaxant22:13
lcuklol, thats where the big buttons help :P22:13
* timelE61i failed to properly operate heavy machinery:22:13
ShadowJKOnly useable finger UIs I've used have been in industrial equipment :)22:14
lcukyeah, chainsaws are fingerfriendly22:15
Stskeeps"are tablets usable while high"22:15
lcukhell yeah22:15
lcuki used one on a plane22:15
ShadowJKindustrial equipment with touchscreens I meant :P22:15
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keesjMy real problem is that I am only really intersted in programming and there is no finger ui for programming22:17
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lcukkeesj, what do you mean fingers for programming22:17
keesjperhaps I need some lego mindstorm clone language22:17
ShadowJKoh now I know why I've never tried use finger on the tablet...22:18
* lcuk would love to develop using real lego22:18
timelE61ihave you used touch based atms22:18
keesjlcuk: I am talking about muscle memory22:18
* lcuk hopes to build up an interactive ide at some point22:19
Stskeepswazd: you should try and prod that lord raiden guy and see if he can be lured into helping out :P22:19
lcukits the primary reason why i started on the framework22:19
ShadowJKI fired up sketch and applied pressure with finger until the colours became distorted, then I used a little less pressure than that, so that the colors didn't distort, and drew lines across the screen, trying to paint the entire screen. I was left with a big circle in the middle where the touchscreen didn't register at all...22:19
lcukShadowJK, my screen is similar, though mines through abuse.  my other tablets are finger sensitive just find22:20
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ShadowJKI only remember the finger input method activating on first day I had it, after that the stylus keyboard has come up even with finger tap..22:21
keesjIndem here , not optimal funcioning touch screen22:21
ShadowJKthe stylus keyboard is mostly in the more sensitive part though, so it's usable with finger too, for some values of usable :)22:22
lcuktechnically, i find x11 mouse input cuts and splurts MUCH more than the xsp library, i think the cutoff point is a bit low for the x11 stuff22:25
lcukin liqbase with the sketching it uses xsp and is pressure sensitive and is better22:26
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lcukbut if i compile it up to use just x11 its spluttery22:26
keesjI did and other experiment today using a beamer as screen for the beagle
keesjnot really usable22:26
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ShadowJKthe backlight dimmed and I touched the insensitive area and the backlight lit up, but nothing appeared in sketch22:27
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keesjthe picture is moved but still, a PC screen is better22:27
ShadowJKI just assumed it ignored it because it was make-light-bright tap :)22:27
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ShadowJKhm, is there any program that would display pressure numerically or with a meter or whatever?22:28
lcukShadowJK, not immediately22:28
lcukbut its fairly simple to implement in liqbase22:28
keesjevtest perhaps22:29
* lcuk is now miffed i removed it from the multitouch sim22:29
Stskeepskeesj: you should do a Mer on projector pic ;P22:29
ShadowJKheh, apt-cache rdepends libxsp0 output is a bit "eh?"22:30
keesjStskeeps: this is gpe (the default angstrom wm when I run x11-image), but clearly big button and such are also good for "low-res" displays22:30
Stskeepskeesj: hehe22:31
timelE61imUltitouch sim?22:34
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ShadowJKlcuk, is there a finger-sized brush in the drawing thing in liqbase? :P22:36
lcukShadowJK, no, unless your fingers are really really thin22:36
lcukit does do pressure sensitive and fades if you are gentle22:37
ShadowJKYeah I noticed22:37
ShadowJKI drew a grid, it fades into a black hole in the middle22:37
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ShadowJKI apt-get install liqbase and got multitouch sim22:39
lcukyeah it wont work too well with your fingers then if your screen is bad22:40
lcuktry with a pair of stylii22:40
ShadowJKit seems fairly accurate in the noncrap parts of the screen22:40
lcukit is :)22:41
lcukfor varying levels of pressure gradient22:41
* ShadowJK confuses it with rapid movement of a single stylus22:42
lcukof course you will22:43
lcukim gonna add a piece of code "OI ShadowJK stop f*ckin around!"22:44
ShadowJKcan you make the drawing feature slide the controls out of the way when you press fullscreen button22:44
timelE61isHadowjk: away or jump to other side of screen? :)22:45
lcukheh, at the moment you are taking screenshots with the fullscreen button22:45
lcukthe MENU button is gonna do something soon and you will be able to setup the ui how you want22:46
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timelE61iCan you make it drop down a menu?22:46
lcukfullscreen will actually be used for its intended purpose ;)22:46
lcuknow i beat xv and x11 into submission about how to do it22:46
lcukdoes anyone actually mess with the screen resolution stuff22:47
lcukcos i need to remove it - its hurting my head.22:47
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timelE61iyou mean in liqbase?22:47
ShadowJKwhat does it do..22:47
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timelE61iLet you run faster w/ fewer logical pixels22:48
lcukit still runs and renders at any sized window and scales correctly, but i decided to remove the options because making an xv display different to x11 was causing compilcations22:48
lcukxv does that anyway22:48
lcukthats what i have currently decided to put on a back burner - its mainly concerning being able to use 480*800 screens22:48
GeneralAntillesCan anybody think of any other "plain text" pages on I need to look at besides, and
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ShadowJKI'd want the toolbox oout of the way so I could see how far the blackhole extends :)22:52
lcukthats acutally quite scary!22:52
lcukmine is more to the left22:52
lcukcos im a lefty22:52
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ShadowJKhm, how does that affect things?22:53
lcuki put most pressure in that centre left of the screen22:53
lcukits where i instinctively stroke it22:53
lcukand its also where tracy lent on it22:54
ShadowJKOh I get it, it's roughly centered around where stylus would be used for scrolling in the browser22:54
CorsacStskeeps: mpf, upgrading vim in mer is a pain because of the removed manpages :/22:55
CorsacStskeeps: is there a way to clean that?22:55
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ShadowJKMine's 9 months old22:56
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StskeepsCorsac: we don't use docpurge atm23:02
Stskeepsso what version are you on? :P23:03
StskeepsShadowJK: so did you succumb to trying out Mer yet or are you scarred for life after trying Unreal? :P23:05
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CorsacStskeeps: well, mer23:07
CorsacI installed using the 0.7 or 0.8 installer23:07
Stskeepsah, they had docpurge23:07
Corsacand then upgraded/dist-upgraded23:07
Stskeepsthere's a bug standing about it23:07
Stskeepsif you can find a way to make dpkg-divert work better..23:08
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ShadowJKStskeeps, I think i need to find a free weekend for it :)23:09
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qwerty12_N800Make docpurge replace the files with 0b ones instead of removing them.23:09
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: possible23:10
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: anything you can hack up? :>23:10
Stskeeps(brilliant idea.)23:10
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qwerty12_N800Possibly, my knowledge of apt hooks & scripting sucks ;p23:11
timelE61ii could probably do that23:11
timelE61iif someone pointed me to docpurge on sunday23:12
Stskeepsk, will try to remember23:12
timelE61iwhere's jeremiah?23:12
Stskeepsit's not the best solution with the 0 as we'll keep the filenames, but .. the benefit is probably large23:12
timelE61iHe owes me a hook23:12
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timelE61iWhat's the issue?23:13
timelE61iBecause dpkg -L should tell you which files are "managed"23:13
StskeepstimelE61i: issue is that dpkg-divert acts really weird if the file-to-be-diverted is missing23:14
wguerrahow can I submit a bug at with the patch that corrects it?23:14
Stskeepswguerra: there's an attachment feature23:14
timelE61iWhich means you could make a "doc-resurrect"23:14
wguerraStskeeps:  I could not find it23:14
timelE61iWhich looks through dpkg -L23:14
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timelE61iAnd touches the files that are missing23:14
Stskeepswguerra: associate it in a comment maybe23:14
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StskeepstimelE61i: and for some strange reason people divert man pages :P23:15
timelE61iFile bug first23:15
timelE61iThen attach the patch23:15
wguerrathe bug is at the "Desktop platform" component, does it make any difference?23:15
timelE61iBugzilla supports patches23:15
Stskeepswguerra: out of curiousity, what kind of patch is it?23:15
wguerraStskeeps:  to fix the x11vnc problem at diablo23:15
timelE61iJust create an attachment and mark x patch23:15
wguerrathere is no such field here23:16
*** tchan1 is now known as tchan23:16, should Extras go on top?23:17
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qwerty12_N800wguerra: if you  really can't find it, post a link to a pastebinned version & set patch keyword. then give the link :)23:17
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sp3001hmm, a gnome ate my theme23:18
timelE61iwguerra: bug number?23:18
timelE61iAnd are you the reporter?23:18
* sp3001 wonders if he should let mailWidgets.xml keep running a slow script23:18
wguerraI'm the reporter23:19
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timelE61iOk.. So bug #?23:19
wguerrait is a known bug, there are plenty of discussion about it23:19
timelE61iWhat the F*CK23:20
timelE61iDid you file a bug or not23:20
timelE61iEither you have a 4*CKING bug number or not23:20
wguerraI was waiting to try to file the bug with the patch23:20
timelE61iSit down and listen carefully23:21
timelE61iFirst you file the bug23:21
timelE61iThen you visit the bug again23:21
timelE61iThen you attach the patch23:21
timelE61iIs that clear?23:21
wguerrasorry about it23:21
GeneralAntillesWonderful, unintuitive Bugzilla. Oh how we love you.23:21
timelE61iBugzilla will helpfully take you to the bug directly after you file it23:21
wguerrait worked23:22
timelE61iGan: newer bugzillas let you attach at filing time23:22
timelE61iThat your bugzilla hasn't upgraded...23:22
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, maybe we should throwing things at andre__, then.23:22
wguerratimelE61i:  thank you, I should have tried that!23:23
timelE61isorry for cursing23:23
timelE61iIn the future, please consider listening to what people say instead of assuming23:24
timelE61iGan: be my guest23:24
GeneralAntillesWatching scratchbox install is about as fun as watching paint dry, and twice as slow.23:24
GeneralAntillesI think I'm averaging about 20KB/sec installing things in Ubuntu so far.23:25
timelE61iHopefully monday i get to install debian or ubuntu or mer in xvm23:25
sp3000yeah, the session manager decided to fall on its face at boot so things were being weird23:25
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: did you get the wifi working?23:25
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I decided I couldn't deal with anymore broken themes or missing strings for the rest of today. ;)23:26
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that drove me sortof insane on my mertop too :P23:26
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Stskeepshm, mertop. i wonder how much battery that thing actually takes..23:27
Stskeepser, power23:27
timelE61iThe new strings will suck23:27
timelE61iI've started using some apps23:28
timelE61iAnd they're stupid, as usuall23:28
timelE61iToday i was given yet another way to try to improve the ui23:28
timelE61iSo i've filed one issue to test the icy waters23:28
JaffaElection ends at 23:59 UTC, correct?23:28
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, so I guess you get to spend another 2 weeks improving them, then. ;)23:28
timelE61iI expect it to go nowhere23:28
GeneralAntillesJaffa, so it would seem.23:28
timelE61iGan: not now23:29
sp3000oh, yeah, should probably do the vote thing today23:29
Stskeepswhen will results go out?23:29
* Jaffa ponders how quickly dneary's going to turn around the results, and whether he should sleep instead. Would make sense.23:29
Jaffasp3000: last chance!23:29
timelE61iTomorrow i have a couple hundred pages of bondi spec to reread and criticise23:29
sp3000I still have three hours to procrastrinate (sp?)23:29
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I guess the results aren't automated for this one?23:29
timelE61iAnd maybe try to fix an arch doc to satisfy some annoying arch who can't write to save his life23:30
GeneralAntillesThe software stuck them on the website once the voting was closed last time.23:30
timelE61iSadly, no one's out to kill him23:30
* sp3000 eyes one of the rs suspiciously23:30
GeneralAntillessp3000, do it now so a time warp doesn't get you.23:30
* sp3000 shoots one of the rs23:30
sp3000next time warp is sunday next week I think23:30
timelE61igan: yeah, it isn't automated23:30
sp3000oh, wait, two hours23:31
timelE61iThat was documented in advance23:31
sp3000three after the time warp, good point ;)23:31
ShadowJKhm, mp3 playing vs displaying stuff is a close call :)23:31
timelE61iGan: please poke jeremiah23:32
timelE61iI really want to get diablo users using my strings23:32
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ShadowJKplaying mp3 from memory card at volume 10 with screen off seems to use about as much power as displaying the home screen at brightness set to ~5023:32
GeneralAntillessp3000, I was referring to roving reletavistic anomalies, but DST works too. ;)23:33
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GeneralAntillestimelE61i, last I saw him he was spamming itT a couple days ago.23:33
sp3000GeneralAntilles: nah, I won't run into timeless until tomorrow23:33
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timelE61ists: do you use xvm?23:34
StskeepstimelE61i: i use virtualbox :P23:34
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, you're prodding will be just as effective as mine, by the way.23:34
GeneralAntillesJust fire an email off at him.23:34
* timelE61i wants someone on monday to hand hold setting up some vms23:34
timelE61ists: are they not the same thing?23:35
Stskeepsi'll be stressed out as hell monday, first thesis meeting with my advisor23:35
sp3000otoh I think I was accused of using coffee to acuse time dialtation in school once upon a time23:35
sp3000s/acuse/cause/ even23:35
StskeepstimelE61i: i am honestly not sure23:35
GeneralAntillesI like how this page tells you to download scripts, but doesn't include links to those scripts.
* timelE61i shoots at a t from sp3000's dial-23:35
sp3000s/the other typo/the other correction/ too23:35
* GeneralAntilles would've used induce. :P23:36
JaffaGeneralAntilles: no, that annoyed me too23:36
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Shadow__Xhow do i edit accounts in modest23:40
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Shadow__Xi open up modest edit account but i cant edit the incoming server23:43
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, only problem with the header for Talk is that the necessary hooks will need to be put in place.23:51
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, there's no plan to automatically connect user accounts for the time being, and Talk accounts are not equivalent to accounts.23:51
Shadow__Xanyone use Modest23:52
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Stskeepsb-man: can you see if this bug still exists? , he skipped partitioning part in simple23:55
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