IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-01-05

ssvbShadowJK: you can ask me instead :)
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lcukssvb, would you happen to have the planarYUV -> omapfbchunky function on hand, academic interest has piqued and it would save me digging00:02
ssvbShadowJK: the idea is that we have Xv buffers in yv12 format and mplayer decodes video directly into them, these buffers are also visible from Xomap because they use shared memory, Xomap runs color format conversion from these buffers into the framebuffer00:03
ssvbShadowJK: so no extra copies are required00:03
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ShadowJKAnd in the omapfb case?00:04
ssvbShadowJK: if the hw supported yv12 natively, that would be another story and the direct framebuffer access would have an advantage00:04
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ssvbShadowJK: it's all the same, only without interprocess communication00:05
GAN8001Jaffa, I wonder if it has something to do with accumulating ammo to convince Nokia that openness can be productive?00:05
ssvbShadowJK: that's why direct rendering should be almost as fast as omapfb (interprocess communication should have a bit of overhead, but this should not be very noticeable), if everything is working right of course :)00:07
ShadowJKssvb, though theoretically it could do YV12->native in one step without first decoding into a YV12 buffer and then converting the YV12 buffer to a the native fb?00:07
JaffaGAN8001: Perhaps. But it's also been pointed out a few times (by people including myself) that you can't just mandate *receiving* openness. It's a two-way street, and saying "tell us what to do" isn't inviting a sensible guided conversation. They're still supposed to be the experts. A *much* better starting point would be "we've identified problems X, Y and Z. We think we can solve these by doing A & B. It'd help if you did C. What do you think? Is this achi00:07
ssvbShadowJK: that's very theoretical question, the decoder should support output to this weird format natively, which is PITA to implement and nobody is going to do that00:08
GAN8001Cut off at "Is this achi"00:08
GAN8001And, yes, I agree with you.00:08
Jaffa"achievable within timescale D?"00:08
GAN8001I'm pondering out the motives.00:08
JaffaI suspect you may be right in the motive. It's the one which makes most sense00:08
lcukShadowJK, yes, but thats a very specific and long winded method, the function for converting is very optimized to handling full frames, manipulating individual pixels in the strange format is slower overall because its not aligned00:08
ssvbShadowJK: moreover, video decoders are using planar formats and decode each color component separately, decoding directly to packed format can have extra overhead00:09
JaffaOr, alternatively, this *is* an attempt at being open. Just not a very good one ;-)00:09
Stslaptopdiscussing igor's post? :P00:09
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JaffaNot specifically :)00:09
GAN8001It may also be trying to enable us by giving us the opportunity to step up.00:09
GAN8001But I don't much like it.00:09
lcukShadowJK, i was asked the same thing about liqbase, its entirely possible to draw on the compressed planes but its very messy and not optimizable in the same logical manner00:10
GAN8001I'd rather see them bring some strong leadership that we rally around.00:10
JaffaIt's a bit unguided. It feels like a "step up, or we'll go back to how it was before" ultimatum.00:10
ssvblcuk: check
GAN8001Jaffa, anyway, I think it's something that needs an extended blog analysis.00:11
lcukthanks ssvb :)00:11
ShadowJKI know in the case of having YV12 framebuffer, MPlayer can request the codec to output in smaller slices instead of whole frame at once, and push these smaller pieces through the filterchain and into the HW. This is supposedly faster because it stays in cache throughout the chain, and might be where the supposed speed advantage vs Xv comes from00:11
JaffaPotentially inflamatory. I'll start thinking some more. What else could paternity leave be for? (Apart from keeping popping on to the work VPN to check how broken things are getting ;-/)00:11
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GAN8001Well, inflammatory isn't necessarily undesirable. ;)00:12
GAN8001But if the approach is right. . . .00:12
JaffaTrue :)00:12
ssvbShadowJK: slices based decoding is a bad idea for mplayer (at least for omapfb output)00:12
GAN8001"This is the problem I think I might see. Let's talk about it."00:12
lcukheh ssvb, it might lead to a new fad in tearing : even sliced pieces of different frames :D00:13
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ssvbShadowJK: the point is that we want to have a complete frame at once and push it to the framebuffer, if we try to output the first slice, it would stall waiting till the previous screen update is complete in order to be sure that we can overwrite the previous frame in the framebuffer00:14
ssvbShadowJK: also the size of data cache is too small on ARM11 to benefit from slice based decoding00:14
ShadowJKactually it doesn't even work with slices00:16
JaffaGAN8001: pasted a bit of this into an email; since I should go to bed.00:16
Jaffag'night all00:16
Stskeepsgnite jaffa00:16
ssvbShadowJK: yes, I was lazy to implement it :)00:16
ssvbShadowJK: omapfb just does not display anything if you try slice based decoding00:17
ssvbShadowJK: though showing a scary error message would be a good idea too00:17
ShadowJKhm, no way to tell mplayer that vo can not accept slices?00:18
ssvbmaybe, but as I said, I was just lazy and focused on other things00:18
ShadowJKhey, slices and yuy2 xv works :-)00:18
ssvbyuy2 xv is irrelevant, it is never going to be fast on internet tablets :)00:19
ssvbwell, at least on currently released internet tablets :)00:19
ShadowJKAnd you'd hope the next ones have YV1200:20
Stskeepsany good debian packagers around? if i have package X which i'll replace with package Y, which is a drop-in replacement, you'd think i could do provides/replaces/conflicts in package Y with package X.. but what about the packages depending on X (>= some version)? :P00:21
ShadowJKit'd be cool to get omapfb into mplayer trunk, and other changes00:22
ssvbShadowJK: it would be also cool if direct rendering was working reliably00:22
ssvbShadowJK: it's a bit fragile and sometimes can be buggy with subtitles, also if you have menu enabled, it gets turned off internally and does not provide any speed improvement00:23
ssvbShadowJK: mplayer with direct rendering and using xv that is reliable and has the same performance as omapfb would be the best solution00:24
ssvbShadowJK: just because it plays nice with X server, does not have visual glitches and can be embedded into windows for use with different gui frontends00:25
ssvbcanola for example00:25
ShadowJKOSD and subs flicker or don't appear on "normal" Xv displays too :-)00:25
ssvbShadowJK: OSD and subs can work fine with direct rendering if implemented right00:26
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Tobahey guys, anyone here develop gui python apps for maemo?00:28
Tobai'm looking for a version of libnotify, for popping up notifications00:28
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alteregoThis backup is taking a little longer than I first anticipated.00:29
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Tobaif it's a lot of files, that could certainly happen00:29
ShadowJKssvb, so what's the story with ao_gst?00:29
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ssvbShadowJK: it has absolutely no future :)00:31
ShadowJKhm? :-)00:31
alterego13G left to go.00:32
ssvbshadowJK: that was a hack to use MP3 binary DSP decoder, unfortunately it did not have any public API except gstreamer, so gstreamer wrapper had to be used00:32
qwerty12_N800Toba, does it have to be libnotify? the hildon way is hildon.hildon_banner_show_information (but i'm not a dev so...)00:32
ssvbShadowJK: that's entirely bad idea, but it worked fine on Nokia 77000:32
Tobaoh, i guess i should make a branch for a hildon version of my app00:32
ssvbShadowJK: the right solution is to develop open source DSP decoders and use them :)00:33
ShadowJKhow come the gstreamer thing no longer works? :-)00:33
ssvbShadowJK: because mplayer uses gstreamer not in the way it was intended to work00:34
ssvbShadowJK: something got broken with gstreamer stack update on N8x000:34
ssvbShadowJK: or it is better to say, it is not compatible with this hack anymore00:35
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ssvbShadowJK: by the way, I was flamed quite badly by gstreamer developers when I tried to get some information whether it is possible to make this stuff work better00:36
ShadowJKI'm not surprised00:37
D_Zirtcan anyone help me fix this infinite loop on my 770, all I did was install usbutils and it wont even boot to the desktop at all now00:38
ShadowJKbut it sounds so easy in theory "gstreamer can play mp3, right"00:38
ssvbShadowJK: That's like one would try to hammer in nails using a microscope (just because there was no better tool available), and then asking microscope manufacturers if there could be done something about making it a bit better suitable for this purpose too :)00:40
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ssvbShadowJK: gstreamer is designed to have full control over video playback, I just wanted to get it out of the way and do decoding entirely under mplayer control00:42
infobotssvb meant: ShadowJK: gstreamer is designed to have full control over multimedia playback, I just wanted to get it out of the way and do decoding entirely under mplayer control00:43
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TrueJournalsw00t!  I fixed my pyacmonitor by adding a really complicated asynchronous process executing class00:47
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alterego2 minutes until ubuntu reinstallation.01:12
alteregoYeah, wish me luck ;)01:14
alteregoHere we go01:15
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b-mani updated my Ubuntu guide to include apt-pinning to speed up the install prosess ;) -
D_Zirtanyone know how to fix an infinite reboot loop on a 770?01:24
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infobotmethinks flashing is
D_Zirtit reboots before I have time to reflash01:31
D_ZirtIm thinking I have to disable watchdog   whatever that is01:32
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AStormD_Zirt, just hold the home button while booting01:37
AStormit will enter the special flashing mode01:37
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mavhcthe "oh crap I've forgotton to backup my files and now they're gone" button01:39
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D_Zirtya I tried that01:39
D_ZirtI just did a 'flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset -R01:39
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GAN8001D_Zirt, follow the instructions on the wiki. :)01:41
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D_Zirtok, so I disbaled th lifeguard reset, but it still reboots when I try to flash it01:46
mavhcso you're in flashing usb mode, why would it even be trying to boot?01:47
D_ZirtIm trying to re-flash because it Wont boot01:49
GAN8001Again, follow the instructions on the wiki.01:49
GAN8001If you disabled the lifeguard, you can flash. . . .01:49
D_ZirtI did disable lifeguard01:50
GAN8001Which is just flashing with a different set of arguments.01:50
D_Zirtand now when I try to flash it just restarts it and takes it out of usb mode01:50
GAN8001Is the battery dead?01:50
D_ZirtI hope not, it was sitting plugged in for several hours01:51
D_Zirtat least it was supposed to be charging, it just kept resetting01:51
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D_Zirtok, now that lifeguard is disabled, it goes to a white screen with a battery in the middle for about 30 seconds, then to a plain white screen and just sits02:11
D_Zirtwhen charging02:11
D_Zirtanybody? please, Im about to throw this p.o.s across the room02:13
GAN8001You know there are more watchdogs?02:14
D_Zirtthat I can disbale?02:15
GAN8001If disabling all watchdogs doesn't help, then it's a low battery.02:15
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flasher is
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D_Zirtya, the only thing that I can see that might help me is the lifguard02:16
AStormno, it won't02:17
AStormalso, already tried booting while holding Home?02:17
AStormwhen connected to USB02:17
AStormit should stop at a Nokia screen with a plug icon02:18
D_Zirtyes, after disabling the lifguard it works until I try to flash it with a new bin02:18
AStormwhich is the cold flash mode02:18
GAN8001Cold flash involves serial cables.02:18
AStormGAN800, whatever, it still should work02:18
AStormit works even with broken initfs02:19
AStorm(is done by Fiasco I guess)02:19
D_ZirtI bet cold flash would help me02:19
GAN8001I bet not.02:19
AStormand watchdogs should be correctly disabled in that case02:19
AStormyes, it's dying due to low battery apparently02:20
D_Zirtwell then why wont it charge?02:20
AStorm~curse nokia for doing battery charging in software02:20
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia for doing battery charging in software !02:20
D_Zirtya, thats what I was thinking02:20
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AStormuntil dsme is running, it's not charging02:21
AStormuhm, bme02:21
D_ZirtI guess I'll just have to build a Li-Pol charger  -.-02:21
GAN8001Have you tried plugging in the charger once it's in flashing mode?02:22
GAN8001AStorm, who doesn't do it in software these days? :\02:22
AStormGAN800, no, it won't charge then02:22
GAN8001AStorm, that's not the point.02:22
AStormGAN8001, well, one simple chip would be enough02:22
GAN8001The point is to supplement the battery, not charge it additionally.02:22
AStormit will drain it02:23
AStormas the default mode is full battery operation02:23
D_ZirtIm trying02:23
AStormyes, it's a nasty bug imo02:24
D_Zirtnope, just restarts as soon as I try to flash02:24
AStormD_Zirt, you'll have to grab a charger02:26
AStormI recommend some cell phone store02:26
AStormthey should have N96 around02:26
GAN8001Er, how, exactly, does an N96 help?02:27
AStormit supports BP-4l?02:28
AStormwhich one does?02:28
GAN8001The 770 is BP-5L, anyway.02:29
D_Zirtsame battery02:29
AStormah, it's 770? then it's easy02:29
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AStormn95 or e6002:29
pupnikhow about user-swappable backplates with different size batteries, for n9x002:30
AStormunlikely, as Nokia likes to reuse battery designs02:30
D_Zirtanyway Im out, thanks for the help. I'll be back if I gat it fixed02:30
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pupnikinfineon wants to sell a new battery branding system that will put crypto on a battery02:34
pupnikso the host device will not accept 3rd party batteries02:34
AStormno more cheap replacements...02:34
AStorm"safety" measure or sth02:34
AStormactually, $$$02:35
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pupniki hope they leave the DC-in jack unmolested02:35
AStormas lifetime of lithium-based is about 3y02:35
AStormuhm, no, USB would be much better02:35
AStormalthough, microusb is horrible02:36
AStormand unsupported02:36
GAN8001USB would be better if you don't want to connect USB devices to it and stay powered on.02:45
GAN8001USB certainly isn't better in all cases.02:45
AStormso give us 2 ports :)02:45
GAN8001Lot of space to use up.02:46
AStormyup, a lot of unused space02:46
AStormproblem will be powering all the ports02:46
AStormand charging will need a client mode02:46
GAN8001Not gonna happen on a consumer device anyway, so I'd rather have the dedicated power port.02:47
AStormmeaning an OTG cable02:47
AStormit does happen02:47
AStormall the new cell phones are charged over usb02:47
GAN8001You misunderstood.02:47
GAN8001You wont get two USB ports in a consumer device like this.02:48
AStorm2 ports?02:48
AStormwhy not? a lot of free space02:48
GAN8001It's expensive and pointless for 99% of users.02:48
AStormI loathe nokia plugs02:48
AStormthey should use something standard instead02:49
GAN8001Whatever, but they aint puttin' two of them on there.02:49
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D_ZirtFixxored  :)02:59
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pupnikexpandable battery capacity is winsome04:22
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stelleganyone know how to change config file to compile kernel for verbose output?  NOKIA screen isn't particularly informative04:30
AStormstelleg, you have to enable automatic screen refresh04:31
AStormin framebuffer options04:32
stellegwhoa thanks guys04:32
AStormbtw, can't we have X driver swiitch to manual updates?04:34
* pupnik would like to know what the refresh rate *is*04:36
pupnikrefresh "as needed"?04:37
AStormI guess around 50 Hz04:37
GAN8001pupnik, about the same as a mechanical TV. ;)04:37
AStormwhile X updates as needed04:37
stellegusing Bundyo's kernel I got verbose output without editing initfs stuff04:38
stellegwhen you say enable automatic screen refresh is that a kernel option?04:39
AStormbecause it's built with autorefresh04:39
AStormit is04:39
stellegk I'll look for that, thanks04:40
AStormas wiki tells, X will run slow04:40
AStormI don't know why04:40
AStormI'd rather expect it to just use more power04:40
ljpits slower because its refreshing the entire screen, instead of just the areas needing to be repainted04:41
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AStormcouldn't X driver switch the mode itself04:42
AStorminstead of us relying on hacked tools?04:43
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ljpany application can switch the update mode04:46
AStormyes, so?04:46
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AStormX driver should do that04:46
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AStormI'd also like to be able to switch VT somehow04:48
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stellegsorry AStorm, I seem to be having trouble locating how to compile the kernel with the autorefresh option you speak of04:53
AStormit's in framebuffer options04:54
stellegI don't see it in any config files04:54
AStormmake menuconfig please04:54
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stellegI'm using the omap branch with the NITDroid patch05:06
stellegand I'm afraid I cant find that option05:06
AStormuse the /05:06
AStormit is in, around Epson chip config05:07
stellegnot seeing autorefresh05:08
stellegor refresh05:08
stellegdefault to manual update mode?05:08
stellegin graphics05:08
stellegi'm giving that a shot05:09
AStormyes, that05:10
stellegit was unchecked05:10
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stellegwell i'll try it checked05:11
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stellegno dice05:12
AStormtry it unchecked05:13
AStormah, and enable framebuffer console05:14
stellegyeah Ive got that checked05:16
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stellegand unchecked the other05:17
stellegstill no dice05:17
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stellegit doesn't fade away like some failed kernels though05:17
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stellegit just sits at the nokia splash and turns off after about 10 seconds05:18
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AStormso it's the watchdog killing it05:18
AStormyou forgot to enable some needed driver05:18
AStormor otherwise made it crash05:18
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stellegi should talk to bundyo, as far as I know hes the only one to have a newer kernel running on the 77005:20
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stellegthanks for your help AStorm05:21
stelleghave you tried NITDroid yet?05:21
AStormno, coding hwr takes too much time05:22
AStormand wasting the remainder :P05:23
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stellegfair enough05:23
rzr<stelleg> have you tried NITDroid yet?05:23
rzri wish i can on 77005:23
rzris it possible ?05:23
stellegworking on getting it working on 77005:23
stellegor trying and failing05:23
rzrreally ?05:24
rzrhow far did you go05:24
rzr#nitdroid is open btw05:24
rzrdo you have a page of your works ?05:25
rzrI linked some on05:25
stelleghaven't gotten that far05:26
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stellegthe nitdroid kernel doesnt get anywhere05:27
stellegbundyo's kernel at least loads05:27
rzrhow much space does this operation requiere ?05:28
rzrdeblet needs like a 2GB card05:28
stellegmm, I actually only have the 64meg card now05:29
stellegbut its enough to hold the nitdroid rootfs05:30
AStormno way05:30
rzrwhich bootloader, flasher are you using ?05:30
stellegyep, its only about 50 megs05:30
AStormunless it'sx jffs2, which can't be ran off a card05:30
stellegwhat do you mean AStorm?05:31
stellegthe ext3 partition works fine05:31
Vulcanisis there a way to write to the SDcard over wifi? Other than scp...05:31
stellegits only about 6205:31
AStormit fits?05:31
stellegits about 5005:31
rzr<Vulcanis> is there a way to write to the SDcard over wifi? Other than scp...05:32
rzrusing NFS ?05:32
AStormVulcanis, yup, with gadget driver05:32
AStormoh, wait, wifi05:32
AStormyou can also use nbd (network  block device)05:32
Vulcanisand how do I use those?05:32
AStormkernel driver and some software05:32
AStormgoogle knows05:32
Vulcanishow do I write to the device using nfs, then05:33
AStormyou'd need an nfs server05:33
stelleg@rzr nokia flasher, no bootloader I don't think05:33
AStormI think there is one in the repos05:33
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VulcanisAlright, would it have some obscure name, or would it be easyish to find?05:33
AStormstelleg, not, none, but rather Fiasco05:33
AStormVulcanis, no, nfs-server or nfsd05:34
stellegah, ok thanks05:34
AStormor such05:34
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rzrstelleg: update this thread if you go anywhere plz05:35
stellegokey dokey05:36
rzri'll test this w/ OS2008HE my side tomorow05:38
stellegthats the kernel image that should work with a working android rootfs according to the directions at nitdroid site05:38
stellegi tried to hack together a working android rootfs to no avail, getting init errors05:39
rzrdo you want me to compare the process on my device ?05:41
rzrhow long could it takes ?05:42
stellegyou have a 770?05:42
pupnik_sorry, android can't be supported.  unless google open-sources its server software05:42
pupnik_so anyone can provide android web apps05:42
rzrstelleg: yes05:42
pupnik_as it stands, it's a nice way to put all your personal information into the Total Information Awareness database05:42
rzrpupnik: you mean google uses the same crap as apple store ?05:43
pupnik_well i'm not an authority on the details05:43
stellegrzr, it works well05:43
stellegit will take a bit05:43
stellegdepending on how comfortable you are with partitionning, and flashing05:43
rzri am ok05:44
stellegjust follow the instructions on the nitdroid site05:44
stellegexcept use the kernel I linked to here05:44
stellegas the one on the site doesn't work at all, at least for me05:45
rzrthere is no risk to brick it ? ;)05:45
stellegI don't know05:45
stellegbut I've treated mine pretty badly and it's survived05:45
rzr-Extract the NITdroid files to your new filesystem with 'cd /mnt;tar -xjpvf path_to/rootfs_nitdroid.tar.bz2'.05:45
rzrwhich files ?05:45
rzryours is only an image of kernel right ?05:46
rzrthis ones i guess05:48
rzrNITdroid debugging kernel for N770 (2.6.28-rc8-omap 2008Dec10)05:48
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towogod, why does EVERYONE try to run Android on EVERYTHINg?05:49
* towo frowns05:49
towoAlthough I do admit it making more sense on an NIT instead of a netbook..05:49
ProteousI'm using android on my quad core gaming machine05:51
Proteousnot too many games though05:51
Proteoustried to install gears of war 2 but it didn't work05:52
ProteousI filed a bug report05:52
rzrProteous: if it supports vmware :)05:52
AStormtowo, because it's the latest rage05:53
AStormand people are slaves to Google05:53
GAN8001Google Fever05:54
rzrmer would be my next test too05:54
duztpeople are silly05:54
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stellegi hate to say this in a maemo chatroom but as an open source project android is light years ahead of maemo06:02
AStormit's not06:03
AStormyou can't even build a package for it06:03
stellegwhat do you mean06:04
stellegyou can build apk's06:04
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stellegand you can download and compile their whole tree06:04
AStormand put them where?06:04
AStormdo they have a repository?06:04
GAN8001stelleg, you are seriously deluded.06:04
stellegno I've had a hell of a time finding maemo sources and resources06:05
stellegthats all06:05
stellegthe people here are a lot better than any online resources ive found06:05
GAN8001One person's ability (or inability) to find sources doesn't say anything about a project and it's06:06
GAN8001"open sourciness"06:06
* GAN8001 sighs06:07
GAN8001Damn keyboard06:07
stellegdo those repositories include kernel sources?06:08
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AStormeverything except a few nits like closed dsme, bme, wifi driver06:10
stellegI guess I'm just bitter because I'06:10
AStormthere's another wifi driver though06:10
stellegjust for 8x0 right06:10
GAN8001Logically enough:
GAN8001It's similar enough to the 770 that a backport shouldn't be too overwhelmingly difficult.06:11
stellegis that what was done for 2008he?06:12
stellegI was under the impression while using 2008he that I was still running a 2.6.1606:14
AStormor maybe... well06:14
AStormask linux-omap guys, they'll be happy to note any bugs06:14
GAN8001AStorm, what are you saying was done for OS2008HE?06:15
AStormhmm, no06:15
AStormkernel wasn't changed06:15
GAN8001I'm saying the STLC45xx wont be overly difficult to make work for the 770.06:15
GAN8001Which is one of the larger things keeping it on an old kernel.06:16
stellegdon't they use different wifi chips?06:16
GAN8001One model number apart.06:16
AStormwhich mostly means firmware differences06:16
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stellegi really haven't played with my 770 for a year or two now06:18
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stellegbut not being able to upgrade to newer versions of maemo made me kind of bitter06:19
stellegwhich is one of the things motivating me to work on getting android on it06:20
stellegso I'm sorry if I offended06:20
AStormdeprecation and all06:21
AStormI guess android will do such too some time in the future06:21
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churl1ubuntu 8.10 would use flasher-3.0 correct?06:49
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churl1anyone want to hold my hand and walk me through flashing?07:06
churl1cause there seems to be something trivial that im not getting07:07
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`Macei think someone is botnetting my ip :)07:09
* `Mace calls comcast to have it logged and blocked higher up07:09
`Macethe joy of having a business line07:09
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churl1hi `Mace07:21
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churl1anyone there?07:27
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robinkSo is it true that there's no OSS PowerVR SGX 530 driver?08:34
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Deuceseen qwerty09:20
DeuceAnyway... I'm the authour of SyncTERM and apparently, qwerty offered to do a build for Nokia tablets but hat dependency issues (most likely with Cryptlib)09:23
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RST38hWait a bit and he will come09:32
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RST38hIn the meanwhile, are you sure that this page: has the right background clor? =)09:32
DeuceThough... the joke may be getting a bit too old now.09:33
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* Deuce pounces on qwerty1209:34
DeuceWhat's prolly what you want for SyncTERM.09:35
DeuceIf loosing full-screen isn't an issue, you may also want to add WITHOUT_SDL=109:36
qwerty12The first line sounds cool.09:36
DeuceIt does run-time linking so even when it's built with SDL, SDL isn't required...09:36
DeuceSame for X1109:37
DeuceActually same for most optional stuff.09:37
DeuceWhat is the normal audio API for the target?09:37
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Deuceqwerty12: Cool, thanks... any idea if it works?  :-)09:43
qwerty12Nope :)09:43
DeuceThink he'll know what to do with the binary?09:44
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* Deuce adds it to the SyncTERM home page.09:48
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JaffaMorning, all10:29
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Meiz_n810could someone take a quick look what's wrong with this: . It's the first script i have ever made, so i think it's pretty simple.. The Theme install and select part of it are both working, but anything else i press in the Main-Menu, just closes it with no output in terminal...10:41
Meiz_n810i want to have simple way of installing maemos themes etc.. :P10:42
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* Meiz_n810 gets back tgo maemo...10:52
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ScreaminIkeAny users about?11:13
ScreaminIke... Or devs11:13
Veggenwrong question. Just ask your question.11:14
ScreaminIke... Right. I have some bt kbd issues.... 1) i often  have to delete my kbd and re-pair it... What am i doing wrong? 2) how do i get it to type in dvorak?11:17
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`Macei wanna see screen shots of mer11:23
`Macehow is it coming along?11:24
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* alterego contemplates testing a statically linked ruby distribution with all the gtk and maemo bindings linked in.11:39
alteregoI bet that would go a bit faster.11:39
AStormit would be heavy11:40
alteregoI didn't say I'd release it :P11:40
alteregoAnd it'll only link in the gtk and maemo extensions. Not a completely static executable.11:40
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alteregoBasically a ruby-maemo VM :P11:41
sinakhello! I have a N800. Can I handle calls and sms from my n800?11:41
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alteregosinak: internet calls - yes11:42
AStormno and most likely no11:42
AStormyou can handle sip11:42
AStormand somewhat skype11:42
x29a_sinak: or connect to your bt enabled phone, i think i saw an application like phonelink or so11:42
alteregoI think there's a phone manager application. Which can handle SMS.11:42
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AStormwhich has very old drivers that won't work with anything11:43
AStormphonelink just doesn't work11:43
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sinaki 'll google it11:43
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sinakto see if there is anythinh11:43
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KhertanHello everybody !11:44
Meiz_n810hi Khertan11:47
KhertanHi Meiz11:48
AStormsinak, good luck11:50
* Khertan have just try to move the left bar of maemo-launcher to the top and reduce it ...11:50
AStormand failed?11:50
* Khertan say that is wasn't a good idea ... as many things seems to be hard coded11:51
Khertanthe bar is now on top11:51
Khertanbut the menu bar is under it ... and menu open not on the good location so not all items is visible11:51
Khertanit s seems i can't merge the menu bar and the left one11:52
* Khertan was also thinking of porting the launcher of Ubuntu UME ... but it s seems to depends on clutter ... :(11:53
AStormKhertan, I guess everything is hardcoded in the matchbox clone11:54
Khertanyep :(11:54
AStormtried another WM?11:54
Khertansome parameters isn't read from the conf file11:54
Khertannope ...11:54
fauxmightAnybody flash poky to an n810? (Latest (pinky) is just reboot looping for me.)11:55
AStormgo bug hrw11:55
t_s_oheh, it seems the minimalist theme for the itt forum is something of a testbed for webkit...11:56
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AStormfauxmight, the author?11:57
AStormyou mean, webkit fails again?11:57
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AStormehh, how oh how should I solve the problem of letter separation in handwriting recognition w/o infringing on M$ patents?11:58
KhertanAStorm: we have the source of the current matchbox used in maemo ?11:58
AStorm(that is, no neural nets)11:58
AStormKhertan, yes, in source repos11:59
Khertank thanks .... maybe i should take a look to see if i can make an fork with a different style ...11:59
StskeepsKhertan: you're going in the wrong direction, edit the hildon-desktop .conf's12:00
Stskeepsnot matchbox12:00
AStormor better, give us openbox and some panel?12:00
Stskeepsand edit themes12:00
AStormhe said he's tried it12:00
Stskeepsand it's not hardcoded in matchbox :P12:01
Khertanreally ?12:01
AStormoh, the left bar is12:01
Stskeepsyeah, it's all themed12:01
Stskeepsleft bar isn't either12:01
AStormit's hard to move it somewhere12:01
AStormor drop the "tasklist"12:01
Khertanbut how to merge left bar and top one containing menu ?12:01
Stskeepsi accidentially moved left bar in hildon-desktop so12:01
StskeepsKhertan: probably editing the hildon-desktop .conf's and maybe the .sos for it12:02
AStormStskeeps, ... not that kind of simle12:02
AStormyeah, .so is really easy to modify :P12:02
Stskeepssure it is12:02
Stskeepsopen source and all :P12:02
AStormtell me, except recompiling code12:02
Khertanyep ... it need a compilation ...12:03
AStormso, any ideas how should I separate out letters?12:03
Khertanwhat i want to try to do is to remove the left bar to get some space :)12:03
t_s_ough, this intertial scrolling that people want to stuff into everything is driving me insane!12:03
Stskeepslike that? :P12:04
Stskeeps(there's no left bar on that picture btw)12:04
AStormt_s_o, it's good if done well12:04
t_s_oi drag something around, watch it come to a halt, release the screen and suddenly it decides that it should start moving again!12:04
t_s_oAStorm: then i have yet to see it done well12:04
AStorm(except it's right-handed)12:05
Khertanmore like that : :)12:05
Khertanwithout the bottom :)12:05
Khertant_s_o: inertial is good when well used ... so it s mean not everywhere !12:05
StskeepsKhertan: yeah, i know, it's possible to do something like that :P12:06
AStormalmost everywhere12:06
AStormsaves space12:06
KhertanAStorm: and lost drag and drop... double click12:06
AStormdrag and drop is simple, do locked12:06
AStormdouble click still works12:06
AStormwhy wouldn't it?12:07
KhertanAStorm: yep ... it s works ... but need to do it with precision12:07
AStormsome tunable precision, yes12:07
StskeepsKhertan: saw for instance?12:07
AStormhmm, so no handwriting recognition expert around? :P12:08
KhertanStskeeps: but if you move the left one to top ... the old top one is under the old left moved to top ... (you understand me ?) :)12:08
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StskeepsKhertan: well, i didn't go deep into details but there's definately a way to do what's in that UI :P12:10
Khertanbut you can't move the main application menu to the top bar which contain menu for example, isn't it ?12:10
Stskeepsmer images are moving a lot closer these days, so it will be a -lot- easier to toy with things like that12:10
StskeepsKhertan: i think you can actually12:10
AStormso do it for him12:11
* AStorm hides12:11
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Stskeepshehe. maybe after this month. 3 exams coming up :(12:13
AStormjust 3? easy :P12:13
Stskeepsone article-length paper, one course in social and collaborative computing, and one in human-computer interaction12:14
Khertani ll try to found :)12:14
Khertanif you found ... i can do it too :)12:14
AStormI've 4, one lawyerese, one databases, one computer diagnostics, one ai12:15
Meizirkkicould someone take a quick look what's wrong with this?: First script i have ever made, so it's pretty simple. I want to have "easy" way to install maemos themes and maybe some other stuff, but this far, only the theme setup works. All the other buttons just closes it and shows no output in terminal...12:15
AStormand 2 papers, one handwriting recog. app, two presentations12:15
Meizirkkiit's about Mer (i always forgot to mention)12:15
AStormso, I'm doomed12:16
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StskeepsMeizirkki: you do shell script?12:16
Stskeepsi have plenty of stuff for you to work on then :P12:16
Meizirkkii can try12:16
AStormheck, forgot to add IT project management12:17
Stskeepsdpkg -i *themes-os08-12pt-0.1-1.deb looks weird though12:17
AStormanother exam12:17
StskeepsAStorm: add on top of that part-time work and having to think about masters thesis :P12:17
AStormStskeeps, so, be happy, I'm more doomed than you12:17
Stskeepsyup, you are12:17
AStormwell, Add to that finding a job :P12:17
MeizirkkiStskeeps: wget doenloads something like html%kjfkldshfjkgjksghjklsghlökhgf%themes-os08-12pt-0.1-1.deb so i had to add the *12:17
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AStormand engineer paper soon :>12:18
StskeepsMeizirkki: scary12:18
AStormalso, it's very cold out there and I can't get myself to move ass outside12:19
AStormyet have to12:19
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AStormhopefully tap water is not frozen12:20
AStormit's not, hooray!12:20
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Khertanhum ... there is no conf file about where the menu is located ? (i mean the menu used by application, not the main application menu)12:22
StskeepsMeizirkki: looks good besides that12:22
Meizirkkithanks :)12:22
StskeepsKhertan: i -think- there should be one, but im not sure where12:22
Khertani found things about the statusbar applet ...12:22
Khertanmaybe in the theme ?12:23
AStormwow, 10cm of snow12:23
StskeepsKhertan: points to that it might be12:24
Khertangreat thx12:24
AStormone plus is that I can have coffee conveniently cooled down by placing it outside12:24
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Proteousyuck, cold coffee12:27
AStormnot cold12:27
AStormjust not burning12:27
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Proteouswonder what new buttery nothingnesses will be revealed at macworld12:28
Stskeeps"steve jobs is dying"?12:29
AStormagain? :P12:29
Proteouseveryone is dying12:29
Proteousnot everyone just spend 1 hour trying to get AC3 decoding working with tversity12:30
Khertaneveryone ... it s just a matter of time12:30
Proteousluckly I was finaly graced with success12:30
Proteousman, how did people solve problems before the internet12:31
Proteousmaybe there weren't any problems before the internet!!12:31
* Khertan withdraw ... and will return to his python code ...12:35
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lardmanHappy New Year all12:48
AStormProteous, rotfl12:48
AStormwe used newspapers12:48
AStormand tv12:48
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lardmanJaffa: ping12:56
lardmanGeneralAntilles: ping12:56
Stskeepsmorning lardman12:58
lardmanhey Stskeeps12:58
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Khertanhappy new year lardman13:08
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Khertan~seen qwerty1213:12
infobotqwerty12 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 28m 44s ago, saying: 'Nope :)'.13:12
lardmanhey Khertan, you too13:13
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Khertanso ... i hope disco_stu will read the logs ... :)13:16
Khertandisco_stu : yep i ve compiled glade ... it s run well on the tablette13:16
Meizirkki-o noatime seems to really speed up jaunty ..13:16
Meizirkkinah, maybe i am just dreaming13:16
Khertanit s bit borring as it s require switching windows for everythings ... but it s work13:16
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Khertandisco_stu : and i can send it to you the deb package if you need it ... just send me a mail13:18
Khertan~seen disco_stu13:18
infobotdisco_stu is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 27 messages. Is idling for 4d 2h 52m 25s, last said: 'thx'.13:18
AStormMeizirkki, noatime will speed up a lot on mmc13:20
AStormas writes are expensive13:21
* AStorm is eager to try latest btrfs with compression13:21
MeizirkkiStskeeps: is Mer: linuxrc using -o noatime ?13:22
StskeepsMeizirkki: it's the bootmenu item that decides it13:28
Khertanand the first mer beta is planned for when ? ( :) )13:28
StskeepsKhertan: when installer is done, auto-startx, firstboot wizard and osso-xterm is compiled :P13:29
Stskeepsand it'd be an alpha :)13:30
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khertani m back13:31
khertanclosed the wrong window :)13:31
StskeepsKhertan: when installer is done, auto-startx, firstboot wizard and osso-xterm is compiled :P and then it'd be an alpha :)13:31
Stskeeps(if you didnt see)13:31
khertan(thx, i ven't see)13:32
khertaninstaller could not be difficult13:32
khertanfirstboot wizard ... could be borring13:32
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Stskeepsinstaller can be difficult when the kernel lies to us, and says the internal SD card is the external SD, on N810 :)13:33
Stskeeps(and vice versa)13:33
khertanhum ... true13:34
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khertanit s a bit like a Palm TX saying it s a lifedrive ... a lifedrive is a TX ... and when firmware update come all was Palm TX ... or Treo650 saying it s a Treo680 and a 680 saying ... hum nothing :)13:35
khertanevery device lies ... look at browser user agent ...13:36
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Stskeepsin mer it's also interesting cos we have seperated the hildon desktop code and its "theme"13:37
Stskeepsso you can do desktop layout changes13:37
Stskeepsso people can experiment13:38
khertanyep it could be really interessting13:38
AStormStskeeps, you can detect which is internal13:38
AStormfrom sysfs13:38
StskeepsAStorm: you'd think so, but it actually lies to us13:38
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Stskeepsthat's exactly where we got it13:38
AStormno, really13:38
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Stskeepsi'm not kidding either13:39
AStormcheck chip params :)13:39
Stskeepsok, but slot_name lies to us :P13:39
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khertanor just test case ... if RX44==True : .... elif RX34==True : .... elif RX48==True : ... elif RX51==True : ....13:40
AStormStskeeps, yes, check name13:40
AStormslot_name was fixed in the later linux-omap13:40
Stskeepsah, so there was actually a bug, interesting13:41
khertani see that there is a sysbit driver for n8x0 ...13:41
khertando you know which vga adaptater use this chipset ?13:42
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Stskeepssisusb you mean?13:42
Stskeepsor something13:42
khertanah :) yep sysusb13:42
AStormsisusb is obviously for sis usb terminal13:43
AStormnice thing, 800x60013:43
AStormit looks like a usb monitor13:44
Stskeepsthink it's usb->vga converter too13:44
AStormhm, yes13:44
AStormthere are two such devices13:45
AStormstill, no reason to use it with n8x013:45
AStormno full hd for you either way :P13:45
khertanthere is reason ...13:47
khertanfor me ...13:47
khertanmaking prototype application and for demo13:48
khertanif only nobounds was true .... and not an hoax ...13:50
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bakarat_is there a way to have maemo mapper recalculate a route if you stray from the previous one?13:52
bakarat_(provided that i have downloaded the necessary maps)13:52
AStormthe routes aren't calculated at all13:53
bakarat_is there any reason why not?13:53
AStormjust downloaded13:53
bakarat_ah, he doesn't calculate on local maps?13:53
bakarat_from where does he download?13:53
AStormI think someone could make it grab a new one to the same destination13:53
AStormsome server being a proxy to google maps13:53
bakarat_any work being done on integrating their own algoritm?13:54
bakarat_i mean to search routes13:54
AStormwell, mapper uses bitmap maps13:54
AStormso searching on them is impossible13:55
bakarat_mapper has no idea about streets?13:55
bakarat_is such information also not available from openstreetmaps?13:55
AStormI think someone worked on using vector data from openstreet13:55
AStormbut it means a major redesign of mapper either way13:55
lardmanbakarat_: we started looking at doing off line routing, but I at least have been busy with other things13:55
bakarat_lardman, ah13:56
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AStormit was to be my second project, after dreadful handwriting recognition13:56
lardmanbakarat_: you might try onion's fork of maemo-mapper, it downloads rendered images to display, but can also use a local osm db for searching, etc13:56
AStormhmm, nice13:56
AStormcan it do online route updates?13:57
bakarat_lardman, happen to have a link? :>13:57
AStorm(well, if mapper could... that'd be great)13:57
lardmanthe idea we were thinking of was to write a stand-alone server for the images & route, to use osm (for example); avoiding changes to maemo-mapper itself13:57
lardmanAStorm: not sure, I've not tried if for a long time13:57
AStormwhat about abusing google some more?13:58
bakarat_howso AStorm ?13:58
AStormsay, when gps strays more than x from route, redownload13:58
AStormbakarat, still a change to mapper13:58
bakarat_lardman, thanks13:59
bakarat_AStorm, the whole problem (for me) is that i don't have connectivity on the road13:59
bakarat_that's why i would need offline route finding13:59
AStormwell :P13:59
AStormyou have it13:59
AStormbut not fixing it13:59
lardmanIn truth none of the free info sources are that reliable; I'd be tempted to pay for the built-in map app licence or to use gprs for route updates while online; at least in the short term14:00
bakarat_osm itself has street-information yes?14:00
bakarat_(that we can access)14:00
lardmanbut certainly it's interesting, and I'd like to get it working so that at some point in the future it could be used14:00
AStormyes, although incomplete :)14:00
AStormesp. incomplete in my country14:01
bakarat_AStorm, incomplete as in not every town in africa is mapped? :D14:01
lardmanno, as in Northampton isn't mapped14:01
bakarat_damn :|14:01
lardmandepends where you are/go, but the fact some bits are missing is not ideal14:01
AStormor most of Poland (except main transit routes)14:01
bakarat_and i guess google maps and consorts don't hand out the street info?14:02
bakarat_(or is that incomplete as well?)14:02
AStormcomplete, but propietary14:02
AStormso, no, you can't have it14:02
bakarat_dammit :(14:02
AStormand we can't even have partial vector data14:03
AStormmaybe.. maybe from hybrid maps14:03
bakarat_gah, why can't the world be a happy place where everyone shares :P14:05
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AStormbecause there's no money in that14:05
bakarat_pff google is rich enough14:05
AStormno, sorry14:05
AStormpublically owned company14:06
AStormthese can never be rich enough14:06
lardmanwell it's sort of going that way, but not there yet (the sharing bit)14:06
Jaffalardman: pong14:07
lardmanhey Jaffa14:07
lardmanwas just going to touch base and see when the meeting will be?#14:08
JaffaWhich one? debmaster or sprint?14:08
Stskeepswould debmaster assist community too btw?14:09
JaffaAs opposed to assisting who?14:09
JaffaIt's a community assistant role :-)14:09
Stskeepsi dunno, i read over the position rather quickly back then :) thought it said assist nokia as well or something :P14:09
Jaffalardman: Did you see my email yesterday at 15:21, suggesting no meeting needed ;-)14:09
StskeepsMeizirkki: btw heads up - gconf2 in repository is horridly broken right now until i figure out how to deal with odd debian packaging :P14:11
lardmanJaffa: ah, emails14:11
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lardmanJaffa: yes probably after I pinged you, have to trawl through ~300 emails14:12
AStormsee, debian packaging is odd14:12
AStormit should die14:12
Jaffalardman: ah - you should get some kind of Internet tablet ;-)14:12
AStormget a mail filter14:12
AStormI had one14:13
lardmanI need one with an always on connection as lots of my hols were spent with no wifi14:13
AStormmakes life really easy14:13
Jaffalardman: roll on RX-5114:13
lardmanindeed :)14:13
AStormI want one already14:13
StskeepsAStorm: some things make me want to bash my head against something, admittedly. but im not sure if other things are better :P14:13
lcukNOOOO dont roll on it, you might damage the screen14:13
AStormStskeeps, ebuilds are14:13
lardmanlcuk: :p14:13
* AStorm hides14:13
lcukmorning chaps and chaps in dresses14:14
lardmanhow did you know?14:14
lardmanI thought the web cam was off!14:14
AStormyou have been hax0r3d14:14
lcukweb cam was, but you left your nokia one enabled.14:15
lcukwe could only tell when you got it out of your handbag though14:15
Stskeepsdoes n810 camera show it's on? :P14:15
X-FadeJaffa, lardman: btw, you might want to be a bit more active in the debmaster selection. We probably lost the first month of actual work already..14:15
AStormStskeeps, no, kernel can flash a red led14:15
lcukyeah but lardman is used to red lights nearby14:15
AStormbut it's possible to disable that14:15
lardmanX-Fade: yeah I know14:15
AStormthus, he's been rooted14:16
lcukwho wants lunch today then, and should i spring for bacon butties all round?14:16
* RST38h moss neutrally14:16
RST38hmoos, mhm14:16
AStormlcuk, ....... damn14:16
lcukback in a mo14:17
AStormI have to move my a** and buy something14:17
AStormclean this place up etc.14:17
AStormheck :/14:17
AStormand nobody to do it for me14:17
StskeepsAStorm: i had to drag myself outside this morning too14:18
AStormI'm trying since 3h14:18
Stskeepsi managed after snoozing my alarm for an hour for 4 hours14:18
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AStormmeh, I'll better move14:19
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Stskeepsyou know its money when you trip a cable under your desk and suddenly your mouse starts flying..14:26
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JaffaX-Fade: decisions are being made as we speak14:41
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w00t_Stskeeps: i want a flying mouse.14:46
Stskeepsi would be perfectly happy with a hoverboard.14:48
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fauxmightStskeeps: Is mer using Maemo's kernel or linux-omap?15:05
Stskeepsfauxmight: right now? maemo kernel, but solca said linux-omap works too15:05
fauxmightWhere's the /dev/ list from? How'd you get a real /dev/dsp (does that work yet?)15:05
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Stskeepsno, didn't touch dsp stuff yet, but it's fairly easy once you have dsp loader compiled (OSS) and the dsp tasks15:06
fauxmighti'm the gentoo guy (normally christendoc) -- trying to switch to the initfs loading method.15:07
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lcukmurrayc, heh @ telepathy, theres not much that can be done - the operations are network based and having delays encountered when using synchronous code is much worse15:07
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murrayclcuk: Or you could read what I said in my blog post.15:08
Stskeepsfauxmight: yeah, i noticed - solca's kexec stuff is moving closer though15:08
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lcuki did15:10
murraycSo we have15:11
murrayc1. D-Bus makes normall-sync things async.15:11
murraycThat's solvable by not using, though there are less drastic ways to improve things there too.15:12
murrayc2. Runtime API detection makes extra steps.15:12
murraycThat's solvable by requiring components to implement specific API, so the equivalent of static typing can be used.15:12
wjt1. not using d-bus, and having everything in-process, would negate the whole point of telepathy15:12
murrayc3. There are lots of little steps done together that seems like just one action.15:13
murraycThat can be improved by making less async operations by hiding the steps, as TpContact does.15:13
wjt2. is true, but backwards compatibility means we can't just mandate things implement new API15:14
murraycwjt: It would negate some of the design rationales, such as cross-language and letting-components-crash. It wouldn't negate the whole point - which is to do IM and real-time communication with multiple protocosl.15:14
murraycwjt: Yes, that's hard.15:14
wjtmurrayc: we already have a C library for that, it's called libpurple15:14
wjtmurrayc: part of the attraction of telepathy is to allow various applications to reuse the IM connectivity15:15
murraycFor what?15:15
fauxmightStskeeps: just looking at the filesystem (haven't booted it). Once booted is gui or cli functional right now? (Does it boot as is?)15:15
wjtfor IM and RT communication with multiple protocols15:15
murraycwjt: Yes, but that can still be done with a C API. Just as many applications can use the same database server via a C API.15:15
murraycwjt: I'm not suggesting that it should be done. It's far too far along, of courtse.15:15
wjtand they have to make asynchronous calls to that database15:15
wjtor risk blocking the UI15:15
Stskeepsfauxmight: boots as-is with deblet bootmenu.d and a linuxrc-using .item15:16
Stskeepsif you're speaking of mer15:16
murraycwjt: But only the long/slow things are async.15:16
Stskeepsthere's coming a installer and such up soon though15:16
Stskeepswhich does the boring work15:16
fauxmightWhen I've got some free space on a sdcard I'll get it going.15:16
murraycwjt: Unfortunately many of the benefits of a C library (or C++, ideally) would only be there if you could do static typing (No runtime API detection).15:16
wjtmurrayc: in the presence of, eg, the kernel swapping things out, you can't reliably guess what will be slow. and, we're spending a lot of time reducing the number of roundtrips needed to do things15:17
lcukdatabases are bad example because theres many types and sometimes async sometimes not, but theres no such thing as syncronous smtp (for example)15:17
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murraycwjt: That sounds like it would be less of a problem without using separate component processes.15:17
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Robot101murrayc: tp-glib *is* a static typed C library. the places where excessive type variance show u, or you're exposed to multiple interfaces for the same job, are places in our API where we need to do more work15:18
murraycI think the wait_until_ready() calls really annoy me.15:19
Robot101yeah, don't call that.15:19
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Robot101hook to the ready signal and go back into the mainloop15:19
wjtRobot101: equally, call_when_ready is a bit annoying15:19
Robot101the re-entrant faux blocking was a mistake15:19
wjti don't dispute for a moment that writing async code in C is a pain15:19
murraycRobot101: It's not static-typed in the way I mean. I can't just cast to an interface (at build time) and expect it to work at compile time.15:19
Robot101maybe we should just rip it out and do an ABI bump15:19
lcukwjt, technically writing async in any language is annoying15:20
murraycRobot101: The faux blocking seems to be not working due to a) bugs in D-Bus and b) aspects of the D-Bus design, such as lack of method sequence guarantees.15:20
wjtlcuk: in better languages you can construct better abstractions15:20
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wjtd-bus absolutely *does* guarantee message ordering15:21
Robot101d-bus does have /message/ sequence guarantees, but the services can return methods in a different order to what they were called in15:21
bakarat_has the gps first fix time been upgraded with the diablo release?15:21
lcukwjt, fact still remains async is harder on the greymatter than sync15:21
wjtone of the big problems with faking sync calls is that they reorder messages, thus breaking that guarantee15:21
murraycwjt: Sorry. I knew I'd get that sentence wrong. What I meant was "that stuff that smcv or you or someone said in that email that I didnt' take the time to actually parse fully".15:21
Robot101lcuk: yeah, but threading is /harder/15:21
wjtRobot101: (in C)15:22
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murraycThreading is indeed even worse.15:22
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Robot101wjt: yes, lets all use message-passing erlang concurrency and stuff :)15:22
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Robot101murrayc: that stuff is what makes blocking stuff totally broken15:22
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murrayctelepathy-glib would be easier with sigc::slot and C++isms, and hopefully it is in the Qt binding. Then you just have the logic to worry about. In C you have the memory management to worry about too.15:23
murraycRobot101: So, the lack of a nice semi-async blocking API _is_ down to the use of D-Bus rather than the async nature of things in general.15:23
Robot101semi-async blocking?15:24
murrayc"faux blocking".15:24
murraycYou know what I mean.15:24
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Robot101I think its a problem inherent in IPC15:24
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Robot101you call a method15:24
Robot101it crosses over with a message which says "foobar is offline/dead/buried/whatever"15:25
wjtRight, I don't think the specific IPC mechanism is what makes this hard15:25
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Robot101then you get a reply telling you "the thing you asked for is gone now"15:25
* lcuk just uses state transitions with network protocols (and async things in general)15:25
Robot101if you re-order messages, you fuck this up15:25
Robot101any kind of blocking implies message re-ordering15:25
lcukanyway, back later15:25
Robot101or you're threading in your client side app and have to unwind ongoing calls when you get the signal in the middle15:26
murraycWhy does blocking imply reordering? I'm not saying it doesn't. I haven't a clue. I'm just trying to understand.15:26
Robot101if your app is single threaded15:26
Robot101and it's sent a message which calls a method15:26
wjtbecause if you send message a, then get message b before getting a reply to message a, if you're blocking on the reply to a you either have to drop b or reorder the two15:26
Robot101and will not proceed in running any code until it's received the reply15:26
murraycwjt: Ah, I see.15:27
Robot101then the signal callback for the signal in the middle will not be called until you've got the method reply and carried on with what you were doing, and dropped back into the mainloop15:27
Robot101or, what he said. :P15:27
wjtthat's not a design *flaw* per se15:27
Robot101it's not a d-bus problem, it's because there is a bidirectional queue of events. we can try and do something at the same time as the world shifting beneath our feet.15:27
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murraycSo threads seem necessary to allow this faux blocking.15:28
murraycThat of course would be hugely complex.15:28
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wjtin a language like C, yes :)15:29
Robot101so, we end up with async callbacks15:29
Meiz__n810no-one @ maemo-politics?15:29
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murraycI wonder if message reordering is a significant problem if your (blocking) methods can be guaranteed (by spec) to finish very quickly.15:30
Robot101it's nothing to do with the time15:30
murraycIt seems that people do block for D-Bus property gets.15:30
wjtthey shouldn't15:30
Robot101people = davidz? :D15:31
Robot101it's to do with events which are, essentially, simultaneous15:31
murraycYeah. And I thought you were doing that in telepathy. Sorry.15:31
Robot101we've been meaning to ding him about that :)15:31
Robot101although to be fair, GetAll won't do network traffic in telepathy backends15:32
Robot101and nor is it meant to fail15:32
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wjtbut it could fail, if the object's gone away15:32
Robot101so in that case, the real implications of blocking GetAll are probably quite slim15:32
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wjtthe problem is that it can lead to ridiculously hard-to-reproduce failure cases15:33
murraycIt just seems sometimes silly that we have all this asyncness just for super-quick getter/setters just because of the IPC, when actually the other process is on the same PC and the call isn't causing any additional IO.15:33
wjtthe other process might not be15:33
wjtwe're plotting to do a thing to forward connections from another machine, so you could do something better than irssi-in-screen15:33
Robot101murrayc: as a general design principle, we're trying to bundle the "ensure the state is up to date and being tracked" round trips (as few as possible) with the slow part (eg request this new channel)15:34
murraycRobot101: Cool.15:34
Robot101murrayc: so you go from request a channel to a working and live channel object, without intermediate steps15:34
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Robot101which is necessarily async, but the "yawn yawn why does this have to be async too ready what life is hard go away" is just done for you15:35
murraycRobot101: I also like the technique used in TpContact, of it doing lots of work and just telling me when it has stuff for me.15:35
Robot101that's what it's /meant/ to be like, we've just not had enough monkeys on tp-glib thus far :)15:35
wjtit doesn't help that we're kind of half-way between being really round-trip happy and the future15:35
Robot101there's code in libempathy which does some of this which we're gradually hoping to drain into libtelepathy-glib, and/or delete/rewrite15:35
wjta concerted effort to upgrade all the old CMs would help15:36
murraycYeah, I know you are doing all kinds of things. I don't mean to criticize unfairly.15:36
wjt(he says, having not hacked on haze in forever...)15:36
murraycIt would be nice to have that new telepathy-glib crasher fixed though.15:37
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fishmonkeyis there any way to draw over an overlay (specifically xvimagesink) or to clear it or hide it or something?16:19
AstralStuhm, no16:20
AstralStat least if the overlay is hardware16:20
AstralStwhich it isn't really right now16:20
AstralStor you could just draw some unkeyed color16:20
fishmonkeyhmm.. it's because I've got an xvimagesink which I want to pause and then draw some things and then unpause, which works ok if I block the sink pad, except it continues to display the last frame it rendered, and even when I sent an expose event it's still there16:25
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AstralStit's an overlay after all16:25
fishmonkeyinterestingly it works on my PC, but not on the N80016:25
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AstralStyou'd have to draw over all the canvas16:25
fishmonkeyhow do you do that?16:25
AstralStuhm... using the GTK?16:26
AstralStor whatever you're drawing it with16:26
fishmonkeywhen I draw anything it draws behind it16:27
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lcukthe hint is in the overlay ;)16:28
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johnxfishmonkey, what kind of thing are you trying to draw? mplayer for example draws is OSD into the overlay itself16:29
lcukjohnx, with gstreamer you cant really do that without making a new filter16:29
Stskeepsafternoon johnx16:30
johnxah, didn't know gstreamer was part of it16:30
johnxhey Stskeeps16:30
fishmonkeyIt's drawing an image16:30
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fishmonkeyis there anyway to stop the overlay overlaying. or something16:32
AstralStwell, apparently Xv in maemo is broken16:32
AstralStas lcuk noticed himself ;P16:32
AstralStit should be possible to draw over an overlay16:32
lcukxv WORKS in maemo, nothing else is as fast16:32
Stskeepsjohnx: how do i make sanely transition from libgconf2-4 to libgconf2-6? there's obviously packages depending on libgconf2-4 >= some version16:32
AstralStworks, but not entirely up to spec16:32
lcukwhats missing?16:32
AstralStoverlaying an overlay16:32
lcukbut the "overlay" is simply the latest data sent to the LCD, if that last bit happens to overlay the overlay it works16:33
lcuki think16:33
Stskeepsjohnx: funny stats, debian beta3 was downloaded 25 times in december16:33
lcukthats why i can get the menu ontop of liqbase ;)16:33
johnxStskeeps, I think Debian does things like this by just breaking the repo for a while. Just put in libgconf2-6 and then start rebuilding everything16:33
Stskeepsfrom my mirror16:33
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, except that's not so easy..16:33
AstralStwait wait16:33
AstralStis that menu normal Xlib?16:34
Stskeepsjohnx: try a apt-get rdepends libgconf2-4 :)16:34
Stskeepsapt-cache rdepends libgconf2-416:34
lcuki dunno, but when i embedded liqbase XV overlay into a GTK windiw the gtk drawing operations were overlaying my overlay16:34
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* johnx pulls out a device running mer. one sec16:35
lcukanyway, im not here right now16:35
RST38bisyou will not fool us!16:35
AstralStlcuk: which is actually correct :)16:35
AstralStas long as you weren't drawing the "key color"16:35
RST38bisbtw, a new bug in modest16:35
AstralStthat should be replaced by the overlay16:36
fishmonkeydoesn't work no matter what color I draw it in16:36
fishmonkeyweirldly it used to work16:36
fishmonkeynow it doesn't16:37
RST38bismodest started forgetting my gmail address16:37
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kost-bebixHi everyone! I've got a small problem. ssh client on my n810 stopped working properly recently. It says "no route to host". iptables seemed normal. Does anyone knows what's wrong?)16:39
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johnxkost-bebix, can you ping the host or wget from it on the tablet?16:39
kost-bebixjohnx: no, can't ping it16:39
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johnxdo other network connections work?16:40
johnxcan you connect to other hosts on the same network? on the internet?16:40
kost-bebixjohnx: internet works great. But I can't ping another one or ssh to it at my home wifi or my work wifi network16:41
RST38bisoh shit pop3 accounts no longer seem to work16:42
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johnxRST38bis, pop3 accounts never "worked" IMHO16:42
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RST38bisthey did as of 31.12.0816:42
johnxRST38bis, I mean in general. switch to imap. call it a new year's resolution16:43
Stskeepsjohnx: see why it might be a problem? :>16:43
RST38bisand I have a record of that16:43
johnxkost-bebix, can you ping the gateway16:43
johnxStskeeps, sorry, got distracted for a sec. looking now16:43
Stskeepskost-bebix: try disabling power savings16:43
RST38bisjohnx: server does not support imap. imap is a piece of shit.16:43
RST38bisjohnx: I wonder if modest will ever be fixed though16:44
* aquatix uses imap with claws-mail16:44
Stskeepssame here. works fine :)16:44
aquatixmodest is way too slow with my box16:45
kost-bebixjohnx: yep, I can ping gateway16:45
johnxkost-bebix, but not other things on the same network?16:45
AstralStmodest works ok here16:45
AstralStincluding pop316:45
AstralStmaybe it's port-filtered16:45
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* aquatix only uses his (fairly huge) imap4 mailbox with a lot of folders16:45
aquatixon which modest almost barfs16:46
kost-bebixjohnx: I can ping machines connected wired, but I can't ping other wireless machines16:46
AstralStwell, it works fairly well vs my overfilled gmail16:46
AstralStit dls only new messages, unlike claws-mail16:46
AstralStwhich tries to download a list of everything16:46
AstralStesp. things I have to scroll 10 pages to reach16:46
johnxkost-bebix, I would do like Stskeeps says and try disabling wifi power saving. it's at least good to make sure that's not the problem :)16:46
AstralStpower saving problem would block http too16:47
AstralStit sounds like a fascist network more than anything else16:47
johnxStskeeps, do you mean it's a problem in terms of breaking compatibility with ubuntu packages?16:47
AstralSteven secured against ping tunnels ;P16:48
RST38biswhen i click to update pop3 account nothing happens16:48
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, :P16:48
Stskeepsas in, most of gnome16:48
johnxStskeeps, well, we already can't install gnome because of gnomevfs16:49
Stskeepswhen it is a drop-in replacement, it seems16:49
Stskeepsit's same problem though isn't it?16:49
Stskeepsnew package name, drop in replacement16:49
Stskeepsfor both ossognomevfs and libgconf2-416:50
Stskeepsand packages depending on it with versions16:50
Stskeepsi guess we can make a transitional package16:50
johnxI wonder how drop-in they really are...16:50
Stskeepsone that has the proper version and actually depends on libgconf2-6 or something16:50
johnxI mean in terms of API/ABI16:51
Stskeepsyeah, true16:51
Stskeepswe'll see :P16:51
Stskeepslibgconf2-6 is needed for maemo binaries at least16:51
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johnxheh, as ugly as it is, a fake empty package called libgconf2-4 that depends on libgconf2-6 seems like the least bad way to deal with this16:52
kost-bebixjohnx: yep, looks like it's a wifi bridge's problem16:52
johnxyeah, Meizirkki, seems like 2009/2010 may be pretty interesting, huh? :D16:52
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Meizirkkii have been waitin for this :P (ARM-laptops)16:53
RST38bishmmmmm.... last modest update somehow broke pop3 account config - recreated it and all is fine so far16:53
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johnxMeizirkki, me too. I'm looking forward to a beagle for silent video playback actually, and hopefully a nice ARM board to use as a file server. will be wonderful for power consumption16:54
Stskeepsi probably have to think about power saving too if i move to poland.. a beagleboard and some usb enclosures might work :P16:54
Stskeepsor a mmc card :P16:55
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johnxI really don't like usb drives for important stuff. had too many bad experiences :/16:55
johnxhard drives are sketchy enough without adding another layer or adapting/converting to the interface16:56
johnxsaw a nice ARM board with some PCI slots and a couple sata ports too. probably really expensive though :/16:57
Stskeepsi'll try transitional packages later today to clean up the mess, im off to bus now :P16:57
johnxok :)16:58
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moontigerhey guys :)16:58
moontigerdoes anybody know if the n810 rotation support works with the latest SSU?16:59
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lardmanhmm, omweather's not downloading, is this a known issue?17:04
aquatixit worked this morning for me17:04
aquatixdid you update it recently?17:04
aquatixmaybe restart tablet17:04
lardmanno updates, perhaps a network issue on my end, I'll do some looking when I get a minute17:05
AstralStthere was an update recently17:06
AstralStas changed something17:06
AstralStmaybe you've missed it17:06
moontigerlardman have you tried forca weather?17:07
lardmanAstralSt: could be, thanks17:07
lardmanmoontiger: yep, that works fine17:07
moontigeryah i use that now17:07
lardmanI'm still undecided, I like the longer term predictions, though OM seems to say fog a lot more than Forca17:08
lardmanyou have more than one?17:08
lcuknot any more17:09
lcukhow was your xmas break then lardman ?17:09
AstralStI'd like an app using :>17:09
AstralStif someone could access the raw data they use for their plots... that would be awesome17:10
AstralStthese are very precise17:10
AstralStobviously, for Poland ;P17:10
lardmanlcuk: not bad, not much time with computers (good and bad)17:10
lcukthere will be snowfall over number 22, with a 43% chance of rain  at 2317:10
AstralStthough they predict some parts of Europe too17:10
moontigerhehe not much use for ppl outside of poland huh?17:10
lcuklardman, thats a good thing, i hope you spent time with near n dear :)17:11
lardmanlcuk: yep :); and how was yours?17:11
moontiger<--- lives in madrid now17:11
AstralStit does predict for Madrid too17:11
lcukAstralSt, you mean "there will be some of europe over there tomorrow"17:11
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AstralStand other european capitals17:11
lcuklardman, tiring tbh, tried lots of things17:11
moontigerAstralSt, i use forca17:11
AstralStwell, not Madrid, hmm17:12
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AstralStmost of central and eastern europe17:12
moontigeri have forca on my fone too and it works pretty well17:12
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AstralStwell, omweather is fine here, haven't tried forca yet17:13
AstralStwhere can I get that?17:13
moontigerits in the repos afaik17:13
AstralStwhat are the main selling points over omweather?17:14
moontigersmaller and easier to use and works17:15
AstralSthmm, smaller?17:15
moontigeryah om is rather large imo17:15
AstralStI like the 6 day forecast17:15
moontigerforca has a 5 day17:16
AstralStuhm, right, 5 day + now17:16
moontigerfor "now" i look out of the window17:16
AstralStout of the window is inaccurate if you're inside a building17:16
AstralStand there's no window around ;P17:16
johnxalso if you want to know the weather in a different city :P17:17
johnxthough sadly my exact area isn't covered: I'm ~15k away from the closest city and it's probably 3-4C colder here on average17:17
aquatixjohnx: sooo, no problem then? :)17:18
aquatixyou know the conversion ;)17:18
johnxheh :P17:18
* aquatix has the same issue17:18
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aquatixthat city lies between my home town and the city i work, so it's not that big an issue17:18
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AstralStjohnx: that's why I'd love to use such forecast like that new.meteo.pl17:20
AstralStand possibly link it with GPS data :)17:21
AstralStit has 4km precision17:21
aquatixdoesn't weather underground use data from or something?17:21
aquatixthey have a lot of sources iir17:21
AstralSt(although only 2d forecast time)17:22
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AstralStwhile their alternate (IMO less precise) COAMPS model has 4d forecast length and 13km precision17:23
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AstralStI'd love to work at that mainframe...17:25
AstralStactually, a large cluster17:25
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aquatixAstralSt: :)17:27
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AstralStbut they don't take "inexperienced people" like myself :P17:28
MeizirkkiStskeeps: Could you upload Mer:s linuxrc somewhere?17:31
MeizirkkiStskeeps: Nevermind17:33
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KhertanHello again !17:45
churl1good morning all17:46
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churl1im having trouble getting flasher-3.0 working in ubuntu 8.10.  im trying to follow the directions, but i may be making a simple mistake17:49
johnxchurl1, mornin'. what problem are you having?17:49
AstralStlike forgetting -f? :)17:49
AstralStchurl1: what options are you using?17:49
* qwerty12 makes a note to run sstrip only after dh_shlibdeps17:50
Stslaptopqwerty12: btw vte builds now, but there's a probable gcc4 problem17:50
Stslaptopas it breaks in compilation17:50
churl1./flasher-3.0 -F <newest diablo imaaage> -f -R17:51
churl1and trying sudo in front of that17:51
* Khertan see that really slow down his n81017:51
qwerty12Stslaptop, shitfuck >.<. I'm still liking the idea of vte9 instead...17:51
StslaptopKhertan: just put xchat on your n81017:51
Stslaptopits very usable :P17:51
qwerty12churl1, ./flasher-3.0 -f -F <newest diablo imaaage> -R17:51
Khertanbut xchat use the real irc port17:52
AstralStit's ok, hmm17:52
Khertanwhich is b:lock by my stupid isp17:52
Khertansfr sucks17:52
AstralStKhertan: then use some shell as a jump-off point17:52
AstralStssh tunnels rock17:52
Khertanyep ... but my box at home seems down17:52
Khertan(all port is block)17:53
AstralStNAT at home?17:53
Khertan(only 80 is open)17:53
StskeepsKhertan: train firewall or? :P17:53
AstralSthmm, fascist filter17:53
AstralStthen run proxy at port 8017:53
churl1it says command not found17:53
Khertanyep i m in the train17:53
AstralStor a DNS tunnel17:54
Khertanusing a phone data connection17:54
churl1im making some silly linux mistake, arnt i?17:54
Khertanyep at home i ve also a dns tunnel :)17:54
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churl1a "monday detail" if you will.17:54
Khertanbut my box (an p3 running a debian) seems down ...17:55
AstralStchurl1: try chmod +x ./flasher-3.017:55
AstralStand check if you're in the right dir17:55
churl1AstralSt: thanks that worked17:56
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AstralStsee, it wasn't set as executable17:56
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Khertan2huhu i ve a google ads : Nokia is hiring : skilled and motivated professionals to develop the Maemo plateform.18:03
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Khertan2back ... connection isn t stable due to snow18:03
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churl1thanks again all for the help!!18:07
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JaffaAnyone want to respond to Lord Raiden on (if no-one has already)18:10
Jaffa<blockquote>What summit?</blockquote>18:10
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Stskeepsheh, quite out of touch eh :P18:11
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StskeepsJaffa: the timeline wiki reference is sufficient i'd say18:11
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fiferboymikkov_: ping18:25
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GAN8001X-Fade, as Jaffa says, decisions and discussions are ongoing.18:33
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GAN8001X-Fade, but it's tough when it's sort of sprung on you without notice right before a holiday. :P18:33
Stskeepsjohnx: transitional package made.. checking how much breaks horridly now18:35
johnxfun fun :)18:35
* GAN8001 hits the road.18:35
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Stslaptopprobably need to make a v0.5 image after this one :P18:37
* qwerty12 updates his system (including scratchbox packages) and makes preparations for obtaining latest mer sdk18:38
Stskeepsjohnx: amazingly enough, it doesnt break18:45
Stskeepsthen again im not sure how much gconf2 hildon-desktop uses18:45
StskeepsAdvanced Backlight uses gconf doesnt it?18:46
Stskeepsdoesnt die18:46
Stskeepswoo :P18:46
Stskeepsnow let's see if we can fix gnomevfs too18:47
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Stskeepshaving GNOME work alongside wouldn't be a bad thing18:52
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StskeepsMeizirkki: around and got a mer partition handy?18:54
infobot[mer] and
Meizirkki?? I spent whole day to install ubuntu-MID and when i booted my tablet o_0 everyhing was gone! But Maemos packages conflict less now???18:57
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StskeepsMeizirkki: getting closer and closer, yeah18:58
johnxStskeeps, I can test :)18:58
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Stskeepsjohnx: apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade (i just need the output of the packages to be done with)18:58
Meizirkkii would like to test b-man's latest installer... :P18:58
Stskeepsjohnx: not the actual upgrade, just what it intends to do :P18:58
andrewfblackJust letting it known in here also that I posted my n810 up for trade.  itt Link:
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MeizirkkiAnybody knows where i could get b-man:s latest Mer installer?18:59
Stskeepslemme see if i can find it in logs.19:00
RST38hiPhone. Hehe.19:00
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StskeepsMeizirkki: -possibly-
andrewfblackRST38h must be a laugh at my post19:01
MeizirkkiStskeeps: do you know why Mer breaks less now..? i can tell you.19:01
MeizirkkiJust because i just reflashed my tablet and destroyed my mer partition.19:01
andrewfblackRST38h I would take an old dell pda at this point lol19:01
Meizirkkinow it will take soooo long before i get Mer running again19:02
RST38handrew: this would be even funnier in fact19:02
StskeepsMeizirkki: hehe :P19:02
RST38handrew: because you would still get the same problem as with NIT + totally screwed up excuse for an OS19:02
Stskeepshopefully we'll get to a point where we just flash the internal flash instead19:02
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Stskeepsjohnx: no "removed"?19:03
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johnxno removed :)19:03
Stskeeps(is gconf2-common installed)19:03
andrewfblackRST38h that is true but atleast it would be a little easy to check movie times and look something up real quick19:03
johnxthat's the whole output19:03
johnxit's installed19:03
RST38handrew: Not really, as it comes with IE Mobile19:03
Stskeepsjohnx: hm.19:03
Stskeepsjohnx: hang on a couple of seconds while mer6 builds19:04
RST38handrew: You can complain about MicroB as much as you wish, but it is nothing compared to the horrors of IE Mobile=)19:04
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StskeepsRST38h: which emu was it that was yours?19:04
andrewfblackRST38h I'm not complaining about microB its the whole device in all.  I'm not even saying its a bad device just not what I wanted when I bought it.19:05
RST38hSts: it is easier to tell which one was not19:05
RST38handrew: As I said, with an old Dell PDA you will get exactly the same features but much worse experience19:05
RST38handrew: So go for the iPhone :)19:05
StskeepsRST38h: yeah, ok, found your page for them :P19:06
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RST38hOr get a new Nokia 5800 - we have got one of these in the family and it works pretty well19:06
MeizirkkiStskeeps: thanks for the link :P19:07
andrewfblackRST38h Well iphone is first choice, then a smartphone running anything but palm second then if I have to settle I'll take a pda lol19:07
* Stskeeps passes andrewfblack a half-dead ipaq 363019:07
andrewfblackRST38h I would take something like that19:07
* RST38h still isn't sure why take a pda19:08
RST38hthose things are dreadful, even if they have got a phone inside19:09
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andrewfblacklike I said thats my last choice.  BTW I forgot to add in the post I just paided for 3 years of turn by turn directions19:10
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RST38hWell that was a mistake :)19:12
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andrewfblackGPS does great once you finally get a lock lol19:13
andrewfblackwell I'm out of here, maybe I can find someone to take the trade19:18
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mikkov_fiferboy: hello19:18
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Meizirkkiqwerty12: where to unpack the bzr:s libz.tar.gz?19:30
Meizirkkistrange, they are there and it still does not work19:30
Meizirkkiwhen i put letters "b" and "z" and press tab there is "bzr", when i press enter it says: sh: bzr: not found19:32
johnxtype: which bzr19:32
qwerty12That's not a libs problem.19:32
Meizirkkithat's what i was thinking19:32
Meizirkkii'll reboot19:32
qwerty12Meizirkki, what does tab completion say when you type python?19:33
Meizirkkithat's it, python 2.5 is missing. o_019:34
Meizirkkii'm was sure that i installed it19:34
infobotMeizirkki meant: i was sure that i installed it19:34
qwerty12Yep, first line in /usr/bin/bzr is "#!/usr/bin/python2.5" and if python2.5 doesn't exist, your shell will throw a not found error even if /usr/bin/bzr exists19:35
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Stskeepsjohnx: think upgrade is safe now19:39
Stskeeps(apt-get update first)19:39
johnxawesome. is it ok for me to start some builds?19:39
Stskeepsi'll toy with libossognomevfs at some point19:39
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johnxalso, is there a way to make packages that are completely arch indep not produce fail messages when they try to build on ARM?19:39
Stskeepsnot at this point no - but it isnt fatal in any way19:40
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johnxok, then I won't worry about it :)19:40
RST38hSymbian, here I come19:41
* johnx updates mer machines, looks for a cheap ARM-based, 2 drive NAS19:41
RST38hOr rather "Symbian, come to my boudoir"19:41
johnxRST38h, who's getting screwed? you or symbian?19:42
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RST38hjohnx: Definitely Symbian19:43
* RST38h has got the poor critter under control19:43
johnxjust as long as it's nice and consensual I don't care...19:44
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Stskeepsjohnx: so what's status from your side?19:56
johnxfrom the builds or the upgrade?19:56
johnxor work on mer?19:56
Stskeepswork on mer i guess :P19:56
johnxdidn't touch it much today. my wife just got home from the US... :P19:57
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johnxbut qwerty12 did that excellent zenity package. guess I should poke at that after the upgrade here finishes19:57
johnxdid you have something besides "first-boot-wizard" you wanted me to look at?19:58
Stskeepswell first-boot-wizard and user is one of the important things atm so :)19:59
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johnxcrap, my maemo-launcher build died :/19:59
johnxdied installing packages ...20:00
Stskeepsyeah, qemu error it seems20:01
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Stskeepsjust re-run build20:01
Stskeepsand let's see if it helps20:01
johnxok. did you just change something?20:01
Stskeepsno, but sometimes qemu is a bit quirky :P20:02
Stskeepsand dbus should work fine :P20:02
Stskeepsit'll take x86 build again (not fail, but not succeed in upload) and then take armel again so20:02
* johnx prefers quirky girls, not quirky CPU emulators20:02
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StskeepsMeizirkki: fixed the tablet-wireless issue20:04
Stskeepsit's getting built atm :P20:04
johnxis that the "wireless takes forever to connect" issue or a packaging issue?20:04
Stskeepsjohnx: typo in ifconfig wlan0 up20:05
* Meizirkki is watching #merbuilder @jaiku20:05
Stskeepsmost .. interesting channel .. sortof20:06
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Mouseyit's empty!20:06
Mouseythe lies!20:06
Mouseythey spread!20:06
MeizirkkiWhy is the basic font-size of hildon so small ??20:06
* Stskeeps takes away Mousey's caffeine20:06
Stskeepssmall? :P20:06
* Mousey cries! ;_/20:06
Mousey;_;, even20:06
qwerty12Mousey, it's a conspiracy! we must stop them!20:06
infobotMeizirkki meant: Why is the basic font-size of hildon so BIG ??20:07
StskeepsMeizirkki: more readable20:07
qwerty12Because Mer wants to be bigger than Maemo :)20:07
MouseyMeizirkki: so my damn fingers will touch the right stuff20:07
johnxMousey, it's a jaiku channel :)20:07
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MouseyMeizirkki: it's my biggest beef with the LCARS themes.. they WORK GREAT.. but the font isn't big enough for my fingers and i don't have the hildon-fu to make them bigger without spoiling the theme20:08
Mouseywhat's a jaiku?20:08
Mouseysounds like an ancient artifact from an anime i've never seen20:08
johnxit's twitter20:08
johnxbut the mer package builder is hooked up to it and it blogs about the package build status. so if you're interested in mer you should follow it :)20:09
Mouseyeh.. i'll wait for the movie20:10
johnxtell me how that works for you20:10
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Mouseyk. ^_^20:13
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Stskeepsgreat, another dbus error20:14
* johnx sighs20:15
johnxi *built* it in mer sdk20:15
Stskeepsi'll just /bin/true useradd in builder20:15
johnxhuh? what's causing that...hang on20:15
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Stskeepsqemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting20:16
Stskeepsadduser: `/usr/sbin/useradd -d /var/run/dbus -g messagebus -s /bin/false -u 101 messagebus' returned error code 126. Exiting.20:16
Stskeepsnot sure why it segfaults though20:16
johnxah, ok. I was worried about auto-startx's init script20:16
johnxbut I think I --no-start it20:16
Stskeepsi'll just check builder for a sec20:17
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kost-bebixHello again. I just want to ask is there a 'full' version of top utility? Because I want to make top -pPID, and maemo's top is some kind of small (there are only 3 options about delay and other stuff)20:19
Stskeepswrong qemu20:19
qwerty12kost-bebix, - install that and you can use rtop to invoke the "real" top20:20
Stskeepsjohnx: give it a shot now20:20
kost-bebixthanx, I'll try that right now20:20
Stskeepsjohnx: (remember to add some text after build maemo-launcher as jaiku may filter you otherwise)20:20
johnxah, been deleting old build commands20:21
johnxdoes make things make less sense though :)20:21
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kost-bebixStskeeps: yep, thank you very much. Works great :-)20:25
Stskeepsyou mean qwerty1220:25
lcukanything exciting happen with ppl in first day back then?20:25
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Stskeepsnot really20:28
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johnxback in a sec20:29
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qwerty12Yes. It made me remember how much I hate first days back.20:29
andrewfblackAdded some photos of my N810 I'm trading on itT20:30
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dick-richardsonhas anyone had nokia repair a cracked screen? just curious what an out-of-warranty repair will cost20:46
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MeizirkkiStskeeps / johnx: hildon-desktop-env does not want to install20:48
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Stskeepsyeah, think we're messing up stuff a little bit atm20:48
johnxeep. something bad happen with it?20:49
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* r2d2rogers hauls out the testing 770\20:49
Stskeepsjohnx: try maemo-launcher again20:49
Stskeepsjohnx: well maemo-launcher prolly only has the indep ones.. so20:50
johnxwas it an old version of qemu?20:50
oliqwerty12_N800: have you mouse working by anyremote?20:50
Stskeepsjohnx: was, but this was another proble20:50
qwerty12_N800oli, haven't used anyremote recently :/20:51
Meizirkkithe problem has something to do with x-session-manager?20:51
johnxhuh...let me try a clean install here20:52
oliqwerty12_N800: ok, so I'll try to do it by myself (:20:52
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johnxMeizirkki, can you pastebin the install log?20:52
johnxfast O_o20:52
Meizirkkijust the problem20:52
johnxdamn, I made a stupid assumption20:54
johnxgrrr...fix in a sec20:54
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* Stskeeps hopes the armel builder behaves better now.20:57
johnxMeizirkki, you can test again as soon as it builds :)20:59
Stskeepsit worked20:59
Stskeepsinstalled fakeroot21:00
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johnxso much for waiting a sec to try it :/21:01
johnxhe just quit, right as I queued it for building21:02
Stskeepshe'll come back in a sec21:02
fiferboymikkov_: Have any of your SDL builds used ogg in any way?21:02
* Stskeeps tries to fix gnomevfs21:02
lcukhiya fiferboy21:03
fiferboylcuk: Hi!21:03
lcukanyone know how to fix a frozen car windscreen doofer thingy so i can actually see where im driving21:04
Stskeepsoh you english people..21:04
johnxwindshield wiper?21:04
lcukthat was pure northern tyvm21:04
lcukno, the water jet spray thing21:04
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, just the northerners :p21:04
qwerty12_N800hi fiferboy21:04
lcukits frozen solid cos i was a pratt and filled it with normal water before it got cold21:04
fiferboyHey qwerty21:04
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lcukinfact, it wasnt normal water, i think it was evian or something21:05
johnxlcuk, "frozen" as in ice or frozen as in stuck? and is only one stuck? does it seem like it's trying to move and the belt is slipping?21:05
lcukfiferboy, did you dig in and find anywhere, or have you left it for now21:05
lcukits -921:05
johnxaaah, the squirter thing...21:05
lcuk"frozen car windscreen doofer thing" yeah21:06
fiferboylcuk: I am waiting to have some free time, but things don't look good for the immediate future :/21:06
lcukno problem fifer, its obviously not vital since ppl have stopped moaning ;)21:06
lcukbut its a leak all the same21:06
johnxlcuk, if you said "doofer" to a neighbor, would he think "windshield squirter" or would he think you were calling him names?21:06
lcukperhaps i should just leave the tablet in the car so that freezes as wel21:07
lcukjohnx, he would know what i meant :)21:07
lcukdoofer. (slang) An object whose name the speaker or writer cannot remember.21:07
fiferboyleaks seem to be my specialty...21:07
lcukheh fiferboy its just drummed into me to always cleanup everything and watch every call21:08
johnxlcuk, maybe add some booze to it :D everclear would be good or isopropyl alcohol, pure only21:08
lcukif data magically appears from nowhere i know i have to release it again afterwards21:08
fiferboyI never did much gui programming with c before21:08
fiferboyI like garbage clean up in C++21:08
lcuksame principle in all languages i write in21:09
lcukcow orker leaves things and hopes the mythical gods of .net will fix his code for him21:09
lcukdrives me batty21:09
RST38hC++ has garbage cleanup?21:09
lcuki thought you had to call delete on things21:10
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lcukand depends on references and pointers and a whole host of other things21:10
fiferboyI think objects deinstatiate themselves (at least with Qt) but maybe I am way off21:10
lcuki think i even cleanup in python as well21:10
lcukmaybe you are just used to not repeating things often enough ;)21:10
johnxlcuk, alternatively, heat some water in the kettle and haul it out and pour it in the resevoir, then add the proper mix of soap or whatever21:10
lcukand maybe releasing the qt reference will destroy the whole tree under it, but thats not the same as full cleanup21:11
fiferboyI hate it in C when I free something that gets free'd somewhere else and the code crashes21:11
lcukok johnx thanks ill give it a go in a minute21:11
lcukthen dont use freed objects21:12
lcukor dont free objects in use21:12
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lcukbbiab, car stuff21:13
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ralfonsowhat is the default sans font on Maemo4?21:13
johnxNokia Sans I think21:13
qwerty12_N800It's called Nokia Sans if that is what you are asking21:14
keesjc++ boost does have "smart pointers" but I would not even call that garbare collection21:14
ralfonsoI don't even have a Maemo device, I just think it's a great looking font :)21:14
Mouseyliqbase read chms?21:14
qwerty12_N800Get the device, enjoy it and copy the font :D21:15
qwerty12_N800Mousey, no afaik but fbreader does (albeit slowly)21:15
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* Mousey makes a note to install fbreader slowly21:15
fiferboykeesj: You are right, I think I was mixing up C++ and java21:16
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fiferboyAlthough Qt seems to manage its objects pretty well21:16
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Stskeepsjohnx: objections to wrecking havoc with libgnomevfs?21:19
johnxnope. go ahead. wouldn't want to stop your fun :)21:20
RST38hfiferboy: No auto memory management in C++, so I guess you may have been leaking memory all this time :)21:20
fiferboyI have never released any C++ code, so I don't think I have inconvenienced any users21:21
RST38hbtw, java garbage collection is not exactly the final solution as well21:22
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RST38hif you are lucky enough not to run out of memory first, garbage collector will kick in (at the most inopportune moment, by Murphy's law) and do its thing for seconds at a time21:22
fiferboyClearly memory management has never been my forte21:23
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: on mer is there a place that has the time in a file that it loads as you can't hit the on board clock?21:24
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: hmm, not sure, why? retutime doesnt work?21:24
Stskeeps(gets run in linuxrc)21:25
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r2d2rogersI just keep seeing packages from teh furture on updates21:25
r2d2rogersthe future...21:25
Stskeepshow much in the future?21:26
r2d2rogerstime stamp 2009-01-05 19:03:21 is 1072109.161072 s in the future21:26
fiferboyHas anyone run into problems with the gcc optimization flags in scratchbox?21:26
Stskeepswhat does 'date' say? :P21:26
RST38hwhat problem?21:26
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r2d2rogersWed Dec 24 09:18:19 UTC 200821:26
fiferboyI keep getting an error in dh_clean where it cannot remove a directory because of a changed dev/ino21:27
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fiferboyI have no idea if it is releated to optimizations, bue I am running out of things to check21:27
qwerty12_N800what flags are you using?21:27
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fiferboyJust -O2 in the rules file21:28
qwerty12_N800I've never had any problems like that with -O2 personally21:29
RST38hfiferboy: itis not related to optimizations21:29
fiferboyDo you know what could cause it21:29
RST38hit is a fucked up scrqatchbox.21:30
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fiferboySo, is it a case of remove and reinstall scratchbox?21:31
RST38hdon't know21:31
RST38hit may be just fundamentally broken or it may have got broken on some update21:32
fiferboyThe same code used to build.21:33
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dick-richardsonis there a way to reset the security code?21:33
qwerty12_N800Can you get a root shell on the tablet?21:34
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qwerty12_N800dick-richardson, run this as root and it will display your current lock code :
dick-richardsonthank you!21:36
mikkov_fiferboy: wormux uses ogg, but it doensnt't really work on the device21:38
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fiferboymikkov_: How did you get it to auto-build with the SDL in extras?21:38
mikkov_nothing special, I have  libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev in build-deps21:39
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fiferboyDid you have to change anything to get it to actually use libsdl-mixeroggwav over the stock SDL?21:41
mikkov_no, libsdl-mixeroggwav is a replacement for libsdl-mixer21:42
mikkov_or it's a build time replacement, it has only static libraries21:43
fiferboyThanks for the information.  I will give that a try21:45
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Ro9u3oR<<N800 + bluetooth keyboard $15021:49
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: gimme a package that you know would mess up on Mer normally cos of libosso-gnomevfs-222:04
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Stskeepsta, lemme try22:05
Meiz_n810nah, qwerty:s port is maybe better22:05
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: gdm something i would like to use. :P22:06
Meiz_n810s/gdm/gdm is/22:06
infobotMeiz_n810 meant: Stskeeps: gdm is something i would like to use. :P22:06
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Meiz_n810maybe epiphany..22:07
johnxMeiz_n810, hildon-desktop-env install ok for you now?22:08
Meiz_n810johnx: let me try...22:09
Stskeepsgail is another issue atm, compiling nokia one22:09
Meiz_n810gnomevfs2 no more on the way?22:10
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Stskeepsseems not, but gnomecanvas is pretty used..22:11
Stskeepswhich uses gail22:12
Meiz_n810johnx: installed without a problem22:17
johnxthat's what I like to hear22:18
johnxeven better when it's true22:18
keesjquick poll QT or GTK users on IRC?22:20
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Stskeepsuser but not developer :P22:20
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Stskeepsohnojaiku, now is not the time to be down22:25
johnxyeah, dead here too :/22:26
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Meiz_n810i get 502 Bad Gateway 0_o22:27
johnxRST38h, I like the moralizing22:28
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* Stskeeps swears22:29
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johnxbetweeb launchpad and jaiku we don't always have the best luck...22:30
Stskeepsi'm starting to point towards garage as a good cooperation platform22:31
Stskeepsat least it works22:31
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johnxguess has been reasonably stable for a couple months now though22:31
RST38hone gets used to good things really fast...22:32
RST38hit was about a month though22:32
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johnxlooks like someone at jaiku is working on it at least22:37
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* johnx sleeps. will look at first-boot-wizard more tomorrow22:38
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Stskeepsevening b-man22:42
b-manjust got back from school, if you were wondering ware i was :p22:43
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Meiz_n810you're on school ?22:43
Meiz_n810it's 5th day..22:43
b-manyes, i go to a technical highschool22:44
qwerty12_N800unlucky, today was my first day back too :P22:44
StskeepsMeiz_n810: my work started today too :P22:44
Meiz_n810haha, i'll be @ home for couple of days22:44
b-man~sophmore ;p22:45
b-manhow much did i miss today? :)22:45
Meiz_n810i have to move my ass to school 7th day22:45
Stskeepsb-man: maybe we're able to run gnome alongside hildon now.. working on that right now. kexec has problems when serial console isn't enabled in r&d mode.. builder fixes22:46
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b-mansweet! :D22:46
churlsorry for this question, but what do i need to be able to see text in westnoth?22:47
Meiz_n810why do you apologize for asking questions? :P22:48
churlit's probably a silly one22:48
churllike all of mine22:48
Stskeepsand? :P22:48
Stskeepsall of us have sounded completely moronic in here once or twice, i believe :P22:49
churltrue that  :P22:49
Meiz_n810i have surely more than once or twice :)22:49
churlguys, what's a linux?22:50
churlshe sounds hot22:50
johnxit's a ghost story parents use to spook kids into not downloading viruses onto the family PC22:50
johnxdon't install crap or the linux will come and you'll have to use the command line foreeeever22:51
churli bet linux hid my adjustable wrench22:51
churlapt-get install fear22:51
johnxas for text in wesnoth: no idea. you've checked ITT, right?22:51
churland you dont have to worry about repositories22:52
* johnx heads off to bed for real22:52
churlnah, i just finished flashing i figured that would fix it, but it didnt22:52
churlit worked for me pre diablo22:53
churlbut not since, ill check itt22:53
Meiz_n810i should use apt-get install life22:54
Meiz_n810nah, maybe too much conflicts22:54
churlvery nice22:54
Stskeepswhat is it vodka buying age is in finland again, Meiz_n810?22:54
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: 1822:55
VeggenMeiz: stick with nerding. It takes some time, but it can get you a nerd-safe girl finally ;)22:55
Stskeepsbeing able to fix a computer well can get you far22:55
churlmine partner codes:)22:56
Stskeepsin my case, it brought me to my fiancée22:56
VeggenStskeeps: Oh, I haven't fixed my girlfriends computer :)22:56
b-manMeiz_n810; responded to your bootstrap-script question on ITT. - just to let you know22:57
VeggenI actually met my girlfriend first in a job interview. She opened the door for me as I arrived and rang the bell.22:58
churli found mine on myspace (really) it's been one year and one day22:59
StskeepsVeggen: i met mine originally at this dorm but then while i was fixing another girls computer she mentioned she had some problems too.. and it was one of those windows problems that took 8 hours. plenty of time to sit and talk and get to know eachother :P23:00
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churl:) very nice23:01
VeggenStskeeps: hum. Not sure I'd learn windows to do that ;P23:01
Meiz_n810What was the problem with osso_xterm?23:02
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: vte23:02
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Stskeepsand libtool, but libtool is fixed now23:03
VeggenStskeeps: my girlfriend is a mac user, working in the VOIP business, and a member of the local LUG :)23:03
VeggenStskeeps: much nicer, I'll not have to fix her Windows computer :)23:03
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Meiz_n810b-man: this far i have had no problem with Gutsy script, if fact guys @ #ubuntu-arm told me to use it...23:04
b-manhmm, mabe it was just a problem on my side :p23:06
Meiz_n810I love the finger-scrolling in tear.23:07
b-manhmm, a nother linux fan on DeviantArt;
ignaciusMeiz_n810 you mean tear the web browser?23:11
ignaciuslike to hear it23:12
qwerty12_N800heh, you're the guy that implemented it, right? :P :)23:12
ignaciusyeah :-)23:13
qwerty12_N800nice :)23:13
lcukdoes fbreader on any platform scroll?23:25
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solcaqwerty12_N800: ping23:25
lcukapart from the java version23:25
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qwerty12_N800solca, p0ng :)23:25
qwerty12_N800hey solca :)23:25
solcaqwerty12_N800: do you test with kexec?23:26
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qwerty12_N800solca, not successfully :(, i nearly ended tearing my hair out... uclibc scratchbox toolchain doesn't agree with kernel versions above 2.6.21 because I got an segfault when I tried to run the binary. Bootmenu doesn't work under the new kernel  either (I tried forcing it to open to no avail either) so I applied some patches I  found for arm proc/atags support in 2.6.21 but kexec tools won't recognise it as a valid atags (even using23:30
qwerty12_N800kexec tools version which was around at the time)23:30
solcaqwerty12_N800: I too compiled kexec-tools with scratchbox2 and it segfaults23:32
solcaqwerty12_N800: statically was around 600KB23:32
solcaso I was wondering if you have a reduced kexec binary to test but...23:32
qwerty12_N800I used -Os & strip & sstrip and i got 200kb but it segfaults anyway :/23:33
solcasstrip? never heard about it23:33
solcaI used -Os -funit-at-a-time then strip but 600KB with sb223:34
qwerty12_N800ah, I used uclibc23:34
solcathats the difference, I used eglibc from sb2 (freemantle sdk)23:34
solcaanyway kexec just works when the tablet is in r&d serial-console mode... weird...23:35
qwerty12_N800This is why access to cal would be nice, at least could theoretically play around with rd flags straight from the tablet :)23:37
Stskeepssolca: you can always probe on linux-omap maybe, igor & co seems to be conversing there23:37
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Stskeepssolca: and even encouraging it, the other day, on iTT23:39
solcaStskeeps: Ill try linux-omap then as my workarounds dont work23:39
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solcaStskeeps: what happen the other day?23:40
Stskeepsjust generally encouraging low level discussion for maemo/nokia platform to go to linux-omap when dealing with kernel23:41
StskeepsMeiz_n810: i -think- we might have some the gnomevfs and gail problems now.. going to look closer23:42
solcaStskeeps: good as the kernel stuff for NITs is being slowly eroding in latest kernels23:44
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: great!23:44
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* b-man is still not able to use the on-screen keyboard in mer or ubuntu... starting to ram head on desk... -_-23:45  down?23:46
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Meiz_n810i get timeout23:46
Stskeepsworks here23:46
Stskeepsor not..23:47
Stskeepsyeah, works23:47
Meiz_n810works now here to23:47
b-manna, the gnome desktop in ubuntu and hildon desktop in mer keeps crashing the desktop23:47
b-manedit: keyboard23:47
b-mangoing nutz23:47
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: don't leave the next 10 min :)23:48
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Stskeeps(gnome libraries, thati s)23:50
Meiz_n810so, no more conflicts with gnome?23:50
Stskeepswell, not that i've seen yet :P23:51
Stskeepssome of it has a bit of suspicious package update over it, so :P23:51
Meiz_n810hehe, i'll leave my tablet to install some stuff @ night23:51
Meiz_n810is xchat-gnome better than qwerty:s one?23:52
Stskeepsi like qwertys' better :P23:52
qwerty12_N800heh, it's really skyhuskers :)23:53
Meiz_n810gdm installing...23:53
Meiz_n810something still hangs with ubuntu-desktop..23:55
Stskeepsi didn't promise coexisting ubuntu-desktop and mer, gnome maybe :P23:57
olihm, whats the easiest way to share files from linux pc to my n800? i wannt to mount few dieectorys so ftp and http are not for me. nfs/sshfs  what do you thinnk?23:57
Stskeepssamba? :23:58
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: yeah, andi don't want to use gnome/ubuntu-desktop... horribly sslow...23:58

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