IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-12-31

crashanddieI was hitting the steering wheel like mad, really pissed off00:00
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crashanddieand then the radio started playing this shitty french song00:00
crashanddie"you break my heart like a piece of glass"00:00
crashanddiedouble fun00:00
RST38hYOu can't blame the French here: the song started playing AFTER the fact00:00
GuySoftRST38h, crashanddie, is you want me to cut-to-the-chase i think we need two counties for two people, with internatonal presentce in jerusalem (i am saying that as someone living there). and for that to happen we need people to have a right frame of mind, and we need hamas to recognize israel..00:00
xorAxAxany russian speaker here?00:00
crashanddiexorAxAx, da00:01
RST38hGuySoft: For that, you need a little bit of genocyde, really00:01
RST38hGuySoft: Too bad is has got such a bad reputation00:01
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GuySoftand i know there a few israelis that would think that is abandoning the promise land we are supose to have.. and some Palestinians would want me in the sea.. but both sides need to grow up00:01
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kpelwell there are all sorts of things that can help bring the right kind of mind. like obeying international law and returning the golan heights back to syria, for example.00:02
xorAxAxhe wasnt serious, anybody else?`00:02
RST38hkpel: And then letting the same Hamas guys use those heights to launch missiles into .IL?00:02
xorAxAxPavlov: is pavlov a russian name? :)00:03
RST38hxorAxAx: Ok, what?00:03
kpelRST38h: no, then fall on the hamas guys like a ton of bricks.00:03
RST38hkpel: why not go straight to plan B then? =)00:03
kpelbecause they won't have an excuse then00:03
RST38hxorAxAx: What is it? A letter from/to your mailorder bride?00:04
kpelRST38h: because hamas is not invading anyone's land maybe?00:04
RST38hxpel: They don't have an excuse right now.00:04
xorAxAxRST38h: na, i met her in person00:04
GuySoftkpel, i agree.. and i might say i talked to people from Libyan in a conference of ITU (part of the US).. not among others they say they want peace too.. but they have pressure from the Arab world.. they are not in a simple position too00:04
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RST38hkpel: shooting missiles into anyone's land is sufficient00:05
RST38hxorAxAx: Ok, your question?00:05
xorAxAxRST38h: i tried in a query00:05
RST38hThe answer is "yes". Next question?00:05
kpelGuySoft: as you said, it's complicated. i fully agree with you. i just don't get all this war-mongering attitude which is known for its ineffectiveness.00:05
RST38hYep. That is a message from his mailorder bride. Why, WHY does it always have to be this?00:06
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RST38hxorAxAx: You want it translated or what?00:06
GuySoftkpel, that is what is so annoying to me.. i just want to yell out "for crying out loud just get along!"  my father was among the fighters that concured the Golan in the 6 day war.. now he thinks we need to give it back. but we need an agreement00:06
kpelRST38h: you mean like the us were shooting missiles into lands that never attacked them?00:06
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xorAxAxRST38h: sure00:07
RST38hkpel: Exactly00:07
xorAxAxRST38h: and as i said, she is not :)00:07
RST38hkpel: BTW, if those lands strike back, I will not be surprised.00:07
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kpelRST38h: then why are you surprised with hamas when thhey are fighting for the land that was taken from them?00:07
GuySoftkpel, i agree.. i am not for this war... i was actually surprised so far how 'well' it went.. i am not so up to date, i was surprised from the Egyptian respone...00:08
GuySofti mean seeing the west bank Palestinians taking our side seems to be a good sign :) .. it always happens when you have a common problem00:09
RST38hkpel: They are not fighting for the land. They are killing innocent people.00:09
kpelGuySoft: let's just hope that the israeli government will not try to be any "brave" in order to win over voters from the conservatives.00:09
RST38hkpel: "Fighting for the land" is attacking Israeli army regiments.00:10
RST38hkpel: Shooting bombs at civilians is just that00:10
GuySoftkpel, i know. i am voting for "meretz" (far left wing) no matter what anyway..00:10
crashanddie[ATTENTION] Please take the political discussion to #politics; thank you very much00:10
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crashanddiewell you don't have to quit00:11
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kpelRST38h: sure, are you going to buy them tanks to fight then? anywya, i'm stopping.00:11
crashanddieSTAY HERE00:11
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RST38hkpel: Nope.00:11
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RST38hkpel: Can't buy your own tanks? Too bad. Suck now.00:11
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kpelRST38h: and that's why they fire rockets with the accuracy of a blind catapult operator00:12
crashanddiejust stop supplying them with weapons and things to make weapons. Those who win the war with sticks and stones are allowed to keep the damned strip of land00:12
RST38hBesides, I vaguely remember that tanks didn't do Arabs any good during the last war...00:12
GuySoftcrashanddie, #maemo-politics?00:12
crashanddieGuySoft, something like that00:12
kpelRST38h: tanks are jusst a tool. they cannot win battles on their own. but they are needed.00:13
GuySoftRST38h, thats like saying that a hammer wont do much good to a cellphone..00:13
RST38hkpel: Well, once they start killing civilians indiscriminately, they become fair game for genocide.00:13
crashanddieGuySoft, channel created00:13
kpelcrashanddie: 100% agree. cutting off the supply lines would be best.00:13
lcukbut unfortunately it wont stop the hurting from people with families (literally) torn apart00:13
RST38hkpel: Can't win with tools. Can't win without tools. Can't live in peace. Do you see a pattern here?00:13
kpelRST38h: you are missing the point. There is a breach of international law here.00:14
GuySoftallright, anyone who wants to talk about the conflict go to  #maemo-politics ...00:14
andre__--> #maemo-politics00:14
lcukthere is a breach of raw humanity00:14
andre__EVERYBODY. NOW.00:14
kpelthat too00:14
* suihkulokki ponders puoring some more gas to the flamewar, this was getting entertaining00:15
kpelwhat flamewar? i thought we were having a discussion.00:15
crashanddiehere people, see the sick mind of a troll00:15
GuySoftcorrect  kpel the geneva law forbids it.. intact its not something i think israel or anyone would want if there was no law00:15
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crashanddieeven though it is blatant, he thinks he is right00:16
lcukill b back later, would rather think about code00:16
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crashanddiesee what you've done?00:17
crashanddieYou've made lcuk leave00:17
crashanddieI hope you're happy00:17
crashanddieHe's done nothing wrong to you00:17
kpelwho are  you talking to crashanddie ?00:17
GuySoftkpel, we all moved to #maemo-politics00:18
crashanddiesuihkulokki, nice one00:18
crashanddiesuihkulokki, though there is one flaw in your reasoning00:18
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Stslaptopsuihkulokki, been there done that.. definately :P00:18
crashanddiesuihkulokki, that cartoon actually has it starting with someone asking "are you coming to bed?", which is already completely fiction for most people here ;)00:19
Stslaptop*glances over at gf*00:19
Stslaptopif i can, so can the rest. bloody miracle someone can stand me :P00:19
crashanddieStslaptop, I shall demonstrate how shallow your sentence just was00:19
* crashanddie glances at the 30 horny girls waiting for him to turn off the light00:20
crashanddieyou didn't believe me right?00:20
Stslaptopcrashanddie: hereby proving the discussion on the nokia tablets as porn devices..00:20
andre__crashanddie, don't even mention the 79 virgins waiting for you...00:20
andre__(oops, wrong channel, that one should have gone to #maemo-politics of course! :-P )00:21
suihkulokkiIME most geeks do end up having GF _eventually_ :)00:21
crashanddieStslaptop, you can't fit 30 girls on 800x48000:21
suihkulokkihowever, I don't know _anyone_ who has 30 horny girls waiting :P00:21
crashanddieStslaptop, and if you do, you can't see if they're horny00:22
crashanddiesuihkulokki, I know a farmer00:22
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crashanddieyou said it00:23
qwerty12_N800If they're bulls, I guess horny means something :)00:23
suihkulokkiquick, on your tablet (or debian/ubuntu machine), run "apt-get moo"00:23
Stslaptopfunny enough i'm writing a paper on power saving methods for positioning methods .. with the scenario of cow collars00:23
Stslaptopqwerty12_N800: funny issue on hildon-desktop-env btw, - gconftool setting doesn't work well when gconfd isn't running, for some reason00:25
qwerty12_N800Stslaptop, make it install the gconf xml file directly :P00:26
Stslaptopand you'd need to ping the gconfd and if it isn't running, using --direct :P00:26
Stslaptopi'm really starting to see there's some areas of distribution stuff i really dont want to be in :)00:27
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pupnik__thank you ssvb00:34
* pupnik__ watching Garden State with knots player00:34
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* qwerty12_N800 <3's knots, haven't got around to setting up the server again (yet) but it's good in offline mode 00:36
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alteregoWell, I think it's almost time to test the plugin loader ..00:39
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alteregoDamnit, it's not working O_O01:33
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qwerty12_N800Is it like adding insult to injury if I point out that you did it successfully once before :(01:34
qwerty12_N800i'm sorry, I was being a prick there01:35
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alteregoI know ..01:36
alteregoIt's extremely frustrating :~(01:36
qwerty12_N800How long have you worked on it?01:38
alteregoThis time around or last time?01:38
qwerty12_N800this time01:39
alteregoProbably about 6 hours01:39
qwerty12_N800Ouch. Really sucks :(01:39
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alteregoI don't know what to do now :(01:45
kpeltake a break man, rest01:45
woglindeyepp sleep over it01:45
alteregoI'm just pissed I can't remember how I did it before. Though, I kind of can. I've put the major parts in place. It just isn't working :/01:46
alteregoI'll work on my API documentation template instead.01:47
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timelesshello world01:49
timelessi need help01:50
timelessi'm looking for a picture of the s60 browser01:50
timelesswhen it has an html:select widget opened for selecting01:50
kpeldo you have a url i can visit?01:50
kpelwould an oldish N95 do?01:51
kpeljust a moment01:51
timelesstrigger it on the 'component' field01:51
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timelessand then also trigger it on one of the 'match' fields01:51
timelessuse a normal browser to understand what i'm talking about01:52
timelesscomponents lets you select more than one01:52
timelessthe match kind requires you to choose exactly one01:52
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kpeltimeless: you want a pic of the menu that pops up when i focus on the component field>01:58
kpelcan't find the match field02:01
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lcukquestion, i have an n800 which works with os2007, can i just setup devkit core like i do in os2008?02:03
timelesskpel: yes02:03
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timelesskpel: the other one is "A comment:" [contains]02:04
timelessit's after "target"02:04
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, you should be able to install the bora sdk fine. device still not flashing?02:04
lcukno, and im fed up trying, work round it and learn more about porting :)02:04
timelesskpel: if you could have pictures w/ a character or two in the text field02:04
timelessand for the first one w/ a couple of but not all the visible items checked02:04
timelessthat'd be wonderful :)02:04
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, hook your N810 up using same cable & usb port and see if just the info argument on the flasher works02:05
lcukn810 has different connector02:05
qwerty12_N800ooh yeah02:06
lcukusb works fully when the device is turned on and showing maemo.  from the laptop i can see edit create delete files which are stored on the n800 memory card02:06
qwerty12_N800damn nokia for messing things up ;) but you say you wanna port so, i'll be quiet :)02:06
lcukheh, i dont but its the only way im gonna fix the rotation problem and check out what a forward facing camera would be like02:08
qwerty12_N800I really can't see why it would mess up though, as soon as i got my N800 it was running bora so I just used the windows flasher and it connected on the first try :/02:10
lcuknor can i, im booting it from scratch after popping battery, the usb icon comes up but non of the machines ive tried it on can talk to it.02:13
lcukthe usb icon on screen stays until i unplug usb02:13
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lcukgonna try it again on desktop with a livecd (was windows last time..)02:15
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qwerty12_N800is this through a hub? :/02:15
disco_stuqwerty12_N800, is he pressing home button, right?02:17
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qwerty12_N800disco_stu, must be if the usb icon is showing. that said, it's not the only way to get it to show02:18
lcukqwerty12_N800, the laptop has two external usb ports, this is direct to there, BUT its likely inside the laptop there is an internal hub02:18
aboyzcan someone tell me what does maemo do?? is it a software?02:18
lcukyes, i am pressing the right button02:18
lcukany other button held allows the usb icon to vanish after ~2seconds02:18
lcukmaemo is a way of life02:18
aboyzlcuk, can you explain more. I don't quite understand when I go to the website..02:19
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aboyzis it a gathering of all developers?02:19
infobotfrom memory, maemo is a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future.
qwerty12_N800hmm :/02:19
alteregoOoo, progress!02:19
aboyzso its a programming lanaguea??02:19
alteregoIt didn't crash hildon!02:19
disco_stu_N800aboyz, its a S02:19
aboyzso maemo is a devleopment platform to create application for nokie and etc..??02:19
lcukaboyz, no, we are supporters and maintainers of a set of software for our internet tablets02:20
qwerty12_N800lcuk, good with soldering? :D02:20
aboyzlcuk. I don't get it .. i'm lost02:20
disco_stu_N800maemo is my main operatin system these days02:21
dmsupermanI'm trying to install mmpc deb, and it says it relies on libglade2-0 version, but from the repositories the latest version I have 1.2.4, using diablo02:21
aboyzmaemo is also a operating system??02:21
dmsupermanAny idea how I can get
aboyznow i'm really lost..02:21
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lcukwe all just like to use our nokia tablets.  some of us are interested in coding, some are here for the experience and to learn more, others to play with cool things in the palm of our hands02:21
disco_stu_N800we all hate scratchbox :p02:22
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* qwerty12_N800 hates sbox202:22
aboyzi see what you mean!!02:23
aboyzgot it!!02:23
qwerty12_N800sbox1 I have no probs wh02:23
lcukaboyz, :) have you got yourself a tablet?02:23
disco_stu_N800lcuk, is about to promote liqbase02:24
lcuklol thank you disco_stu_N800 :)02:24
lcukno need now02:24
qwerty12_N800ha :D02:24
lcukback to my code, ive had some good progress this evening02:25
disco_stu_N800i made a client for a local weather site today02:26
disco_stu_N800i want to give it kinetic scroling02:26
qwerty12_N800With thp's mokoui port?02:27
qwerty12_N800 - seems a quick way to make a python app kinetic :)02:29
disco_stu_N800nice one.. i'll peep02:30
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alteregow00t progress!02:34
dmsupermanI'm trying to install mmpc deb, and it says it relies on libglade2-0 version, but from the repositories the latest version I have 1.2.4, using diablo02:35
dmsupermanAny idea how I can get
disco_stu_N800qwerty12_N800, looks good but what i want to scroll is gtk image02:36
qwerty12_N800disco_stu_N800, ah :/02:36
lcukdisco_stu_N800, what language?02:37
disco_stu_N800i'll see what i can do. glade has been very nice helping me with the interfaces02:38
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disco_stu_N800lcuk, python, of course02:38
lcukyes, but what language are you wanting the app to be written in.  damn02:38
lcuksomeone find out and talk to me about some python bindings02:38
alteregoRUBY! :P02:39
qwerty12_N800disco_stu_N800, mytube uses : - dunno if it's what you want02:39
lcukheh pmsl02:39
lcukkinetic is easy02:39
disco_stu_N800lcuk, in a few days i'll start messing with liqbase source code02:39
lcukits a problem that gdk is just too slow02:39
lcukwhichever fuffin one it is02:39 ideas then?02:40
lcukdunno sorry superman02:40
lcukhey i watched you on telly lastnight02:40
alteregoDamnit, I had it doing something before >:(02:42
disco_stu_N800100Kb of data is 0.40 cents (U$S) with my mobile phone02:42
disco_stu_N800its freaking expensive02:42
disco_stu_N800i cant even afford IRC through it02:43
* qwerty12_N800 has no idea what his rates are, he just loves it when he has only 1.00 credit and he can use the internet for a long while before they realise my credit's gone :p02:44
disco_stu_N800lol.. here happens the same.. but they will take the money in your next charge02:45
qwerty12_N800ouch :/02:45
disco_stu_N800the give me a pack with 10Mb but i must use it in theree days02:46
disco_stu_N800the are fuckin retarded02:46
qwerty12_N800indeed, if I top up, I get an amount that I can use in a month ;/02:47
alteregoMORE PROGRESS! :D02:48
disco_stu_N800what's alterego hacking?02:48
qwerty12_N800alterego, out of question, how much ruby applets are there?02:49
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alteregoThere are no Ruby applets :P02:49
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alteregoBut I've got a plan for a killer plugin that will make everyone want to install Ruby on their devices :P02:49
qwerty12_N800At least you aren't breaking something then :D02:50
qwerty12_N800hi rm_you02:50
pupnikruby is cool to look at02:50
woglinderails is great02:50
rm_youon is a wonderful particle02:51
qwerty12_N800alterego, please make a python-launcher knockoff for ruby though :p02:51
alteregoI actually had the idea of a ruby-launcher before the python one was developed :P02:51
qwerty12_N800One thing I can't stand is python & ruby's startup time on the tablet :)02:52
alteregoWell, on the other hand. If it's an applet it'll always be running so it doesn't matter :P02:53
woglindeqwerty12 hehe02:53
woglindeworser than the java it cant be02:53
qwerty12_N800alterego, tried advanced-power, written in python? really cool applet but it slows down hildon-desktop's startup time02:54
alteregoYes, that'll happen.02:54
qwerty12_N800woglinde, hehe , i used to pray I'd be able to use my computer when i had a 733mhz + 128mb ram one ;p02:55
woglindeo I once had a latop woth 433 mhz and 138 mb ram02:55
woglindebut with dvd02:56
woglindeand was one of the first wathcing a dvd under linux with it02:56
* qwerty12_N800 remembers the 'DVD Jon' stories...02:56
woglindewas arund 1999/200002:57
qwerty12_N800alterego, no need to convince me anyway, I've already got yer packages installed :)02:57
qwerty12_N800(and a crapton of ruby books :p)02:58
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alteregoONE OF US! ONE OF US!02:59
qwerty12_N800would you consider it betrayal if I said i also have a crapton of python books too? :/03:00
solmumahaalterego: where's the launcher then? :)03:00
alteregoI program in Python as well.03:00
alteregoNot out of choice mind ;)03:00
alteregoGod, debugging this is a b*tch ..03:04
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alteregoRight, one bug squashed .. :D03:06
towoGod, mCalendar failing to sync is most annofing.03:07
b-man200 Playstation 3's used to hack SSL:
woglindeb-man yes03:10
* qwerty12_N800 knows what he's ordering now :)03:11
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woglindegood nite03:12
towoCouldn't attend the lecture, that's the bad part about it.03:12
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alteregoRight, I've zoned in on the main problem. I actually remember having this issue last time .. If only I could remember what I did next .. >:(03:13
solmumahaalterego: good news is, new packages work perfectly, no regression what so ever03:14
alteregoThere was some slight problem with package dependencies though.03:14
solmumahai don't have those installed then03:15
alteregoActually, you do. You just installed them manually didn't you :)03:15
alteregoIt was the ruby1.8-maemo meta package that had the issue.03:16
infobotalterego meant: It was the ruby1.8-maemo meta package that has the issue.03:16
alteregoI've not actually updated it yet.03:16
* qwerty12_N800 butchered /var/lib/dpkg/status to have working ruby1.8-maemo :)03:16
alteregoWhat I'll do is delete the meta package ;)03:17
qwerty12_N800knots depends on it :903:17
alteregoThat way wgetters wont fall into that trap.03:18
alteregoYeah, the whole point of me separating up all the packages is so people writing programs can depend on only what they use. So they don't have to install the entire ruby-maemo set.03:19
alteregoMaybe I should just drop the meta-package all together ..03:19
qwerty12_N800Pymaemo has python2.5-runtime for lazy packagers :D03:21
alteregoOh, I know what the problem is!03:22
alteregoI think I know how to fix it too ...03:22
solmumahai'm lazy too03:22
solmumahabut actually i don't depend on the meta-package03:22
solmumahabut i'd like to :p03:23
qwerty12_N800was knots packaged by hand? :)03:24
solmumahastill is, 0.4.1 still uses the old packages so it has different dependencies03:24
solmumahaalterego: any eta for the extras?03:26
alteregosolmumaha: as soon as I get authorized.03:26
alteregoLike I said, it probably wont be until the new year when all the Nokians get back to work.03:26
solmumahalazy sobs03:27
qwerty12_N800/msg X-Fade and see if he can be bribed :)03:27
solmumahastill haven't gotten the icon to show up in the task bar03:28
solmumahawell at least there is an icon03:31
alteregoIf only I could remember how I got over this issue the first time! >:(03:31
solmumahai'll grep the logs :)03:31
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solmumahasorry, no solution there03:35
solmumaha"The next release will fix bugs in LibConIc aswell as make desktop plugins more robust by reporting errors when the occur instead of dying."03:36
solmumahaso you had them working at that point i guess03:36
alteregoYes, I've got screen shots and everything >:(03:37
solmumahawhat is the problem?03:37
alteregoI've fixed it :)03:38
solmumahayou're welcome03:38
alteregoI was just doing a bit of googling and looking through Ruby's "intern.h" and found a function that looked familiar. Turns out that's what I used! :D03:39
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solmumahaand gn03:40
alteregoI suppose I can go to sleep now, happy with the knowledge that I've got it working :)03:40
pupnikgnite solmumaha, alterego -- thanks for ruby/knots03:41
alteregonp :)03:41
GAN8001pupnik, the video acceleration is on the DSP now.03:41
GAN8001pupnik, C64x03:42
GAN8001Or on the CPU with NEON acceleration03:42
GAN8001There's no ARM7 core for dedicated video decoding anymore.03:42
GAN8001[2:35pm] <pupnik__> something in 3530soc has h264 i think03:43
pupnikfrom the pdf, i see that IVA2.2 has the dsp, *and* a dedicated hardware video accelerator03:43
pupnikoh ok - ssvb explained it03:43
pupnikso n9x0 might have some dsp video accel.  pandora won't, unless some indy developer goes crazy03:44
pupnikdepends on whether nokia buys codecs from TI03:44
pupnikafaict, ymmv etc03:44
GAN8001RX-51 will do all video decoding on DSP03:45
GAN8001audio decoding will be Cortex-side03:45
GAN8001I'm interested to see how the performance of the C64x will stack up against NEON-accelerated CPU-side decoding.03:45
GAN8001I think OpenMAX may be better than previous DSP stuff.03:46
alteregoHow fast are the Cortex chips?03:47
GAN8001Fucking fast03:47
GAN80012-3x faster than ARM1103:47
GAN8001So a 600MHz Cortex A8 is approximately equivalent to a >1GHz ARM1103:47
GAN8001lol, Yahoo abuse's response to my complaint is a total non-sequitor.03:48
GAN8001Memory was the biggest improvement03:48
alteregoYay! it's almost finished :D03:51
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pupnikdosbox for omap3 runs wing commander nicely, they say03:57
pupnikand some other 286 era games that drag on my build03:57
GAN8001OMAP3 is gonna be a huge boon for mobile Linux03:58
alteregoI wonder if it'll run windows 95 ..03:58
TrueJournalsWhy... just... why....?03:58
alteregoBecause it's possible?03:59
b-man@alterego, have windows95 imulated in dosbox - so yes. ;)03:59
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alteregoDosBOX can emulate Win95?04:00
alteregoAwesome ..04:00
b-mani actually hacked a version originaly intended for a PSP to run on my tablet using DSB04:01
b-manedit; DBS ;p04:01
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b-man(dosbox boot selector)04:02
* alterego yawns04:12
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GAN8001alterego, did you get your Extras invite?04:15
alteregoNot yet.04:15
GAN8001You send it?04:15
GAN8001I wonder where X-Fade's off to. . . .04:15
* alterego shrugs04:16
GAN8001I'll pester him after New Years if you still don't get it. :)04:17
alteregoI was kind of half expecting it after new years when everyone's back at work and stuff :)04:17
pupnikb-man: does the touchscreen calibrate correctly to the win95 pointer?04:18
alteregoIT'S WERKIN!04:22
lcukshes alive!04:22
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alteregoI can tell you all want to see the screen shot ;)04:24
cjdavis2yes! and I dont even know what it is!04:25
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b-man@pupnik; kinda, you need to drag it to the corner of the screen to calibrate it, but somewhat, yes.04:29
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b-manand i do have screenshots, but i haven't uploaded them yet.04:29
b-manthe whole desktop fits the screen to04:29
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alteregoWell, now time for bed,.04:32
b-mansee ya04:32
* alterego frantically submits the code to subversion to avoid data loss.04:32
alteregoI'm not going to go through this again ^_^04:32
alteregoNot a third time!04:32
alteregoRight, g'night folks.04:33
b-manBtw, about win95, I'll probibly create a small guide on how to make win95 work over at ITT. - i might need to get permission from the guy who wrote DBS though.04:33
b-manhe has a strict copyright policy.04:34
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GAN800Who the hell decided esc should minmize in Modest-m04:38
GAN800We all have a goddamn window/fullscreen button!04:39
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infobotGAN800 meant: We already have a goddamn window/fullscreen button!04:39
pupnikb-man: chat with OSEmuTech04:41
b-manif i can find her :p04:42
b-mani haven't seen her for months04:42
pupnikis female?04:43
b-manisn't it obvious?04:43
pupnikwell that realignes my internal femdar a bit04:44
TrueJournalsAnyone know why python with gtk won't let me change the color of text in a menu item? :-P04:44
TrueJournals(Or style of the text at all, for that matter...)04:44
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TrueJournalsAh... maybe because it's not reading the new file...04:45
b-manpupnlk, is this your website?;
pupniksorry for the inactivity04:54
b-manit's ok, i'm allmost allwase staring at the screen :)04:54
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pupniklack of updates to games... been a rough year04:56
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disco_stuwe need good games..05:00
b-mantoo bad we don't have OpenGL...05:02
lcukwhat did game designers do before opengl? did games not exist?05:02
b-manuntill RX51 hardware is available...05:02
b-manlol - woops05:03
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b-mani think i'm addicted to my tablet, i've been using it for 5+ hours straight.05:07
b-manfor the past 2 days..05:08
b-manruining my eyes... :)05:09
lcukive just got a large format tablet as well as my nokia now05:10
towolcuk: software renderers.05:11
pupnikwhat kind?05:11
lcukyes towo05:11
pupniklcuk, x86 mini-notebook tablet?05:15
lcukno, 12 inch lenovo, pentium m 1.6 (running at powersave 798)05:16
lcukits sweet, loads of power and liqbase is wicked on it05:16
lcukits sidetracked me somewhat with the future thoughts, and brought me back to coding in the trunk05:17
lcuktheres talk about the app menu and stuff, and a mockup on the tabletui, i think i can bring that mockup to life05:17
lcukive spent the night following the threads of what the app manager currently uses to build its menus05:18
lcuki think i can knock something up that will look cool and work well05:19
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pupnikso it's an x86 mini-notebook tablet, by lenovo05:20
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b-manpupnik:   --- provides information about DBS in dosbox, and provides download links for W98/95/3.1 - if your curious.05:27
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b-manjust extract it to your mmc, copy over the dosbox.conf file to /usr/share/dosbox and change the E and M drives to    mount m /media/mmc2/PSP/GAME/   mount e /media/mmc2/PSP/GAME/DOSBox/   and make autolock=false05:31
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b-manand extract the images to /PSP/GAMES/DOSbox/05:32
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pupnikthat rocks05:37
pupnikwould you like a much faster dosbox b-man ?05:37
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theorificeis rtcomm a replacement for the default 'presence' im application ?05:39
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pupnikme too05:39
b-manheh :)05:39
cjdavis2theorifice: I think the presence stuff is called galgo05:40
cjdavis2sorry galago05:40
cjdavis2I'm actually trying to get it working with the facebook plugin for libpurple05:42
cjdavis2but I've now managed to install a version of something that borked the msn and aim connections, and it doesnt seem to see the facebook stuff, so I'm going backwards...05:43
cjdavis2so, anybody know how I can debug this a little more? ie, I can get a debug window in pidgin, is there such a thing with libpurple?05:44
b-manpupnik; windows 98 mirrors:
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mshanyone know, can you see dl stats for an extras repo package that doesn't have a garage page?06:01
cjdavis2theorifice: heres the specifics on rtcom
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theorificehas anyone experienced having the external mmc detected as corrupted on boot but detected fine one removed and inserted (without rebooting) ?06:28
zakkmhow do you know its corrupt at boot?06:30
theorificeIt's not.  I just get a message that it is.06:30
zakkmit tells you?06:30
zakkmon maemo or pc?06:30
theorificeI don't even have to remove it to have it redetected and automounted.  I just need to jiggle the cover06:30
theorificeon maemo n81006:30
zakkmthat is weirdd06:31
theorificesorry.  I assumed that since we're on #maemo that I was talking about maemo ....06:31
theorificeI'll never do that again geez ...06:31
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zakkmno , i didnt know anything would appear at boot06:31
zakkmits just a GUI ?06:31
theorificeyou get a popup message after maemo has booted, similar to the one that tells you that you've connected to a network, etc.06:32
zakkmyou sure the partitioning is right on it?06:32
theorificewell, It's a single vfat partition on the external mmc06:33
theorificeand again, it's detected fine, once I re-insert it (without rebooting)06:34
cjdavis2which cover do you jiggle to make it work?06:34
solarionis it me or is battery life much shorter lately?06:34
solarionn810, recently updated06:34
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theorificethat external cover.06:35
zakkmsolarion: 43-7 vs 36-5?06:35
cjdavis2the battery cover? or the mmc cover06:35
theorificeThere's probably a switch in there that tells maemo that the cover is open.06:35
solarionzakkm: what are those numbers?06:35
theorificeThe mmc cover.06:35
cjdavis2ya, could be a switch in there, or could be intermittent contact in the socket with the card06:36
solarionI also notice that ogg support that I installed seems to no longer be effective.  Is this a known problem?06:37
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solarionzakkm: ah, I grok.  Lemme check.06:39
pupnikdo the N8x0 batteries allow us to see their 'health'?  charge capacity in mAh?06:39
solarionIt seems that post-upgrade, it needs recharged every day06:39
pupnikmy battery on n810 has been losing juice faster = but before i upgraded06:40
pupniki also left it in the cold for a while06:40
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solarionzakkm: am I just way behind the times somehow?06:41
zakkmoh wow thats old06:42
zakkmyeahh update06:42
solarionzakkm: what in particular needs updating?06:42
solarionwhat determines that version number (displayed in the control panel ("About"))06:43
zakkmsolaris: Diablo Image06:43
solarionthis should be diablo tmk06:43
zakkmwait isnt there a  update waiting in application manager?06:43
zakkmit is diablo06:43
zakkmold diablo though06:43
solarionjust maemo06:43
solarionerm, mediacenter06:44
solarionI may have horked something with apt-get, iirc06:44
solarionthere were a few packages it wanted to autoremove06:44
zakkmi dont know06:44
zakkmyour using a very old version though ;p06:44
zakkmi know that much06:44
solarionthere was some package or packages that I should re-install06:45
solarionbut I forgot what the packages are/were06:45
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zakkmyou use Garnet VM?06:46
zakkmyou know any good games for it? :)06:46
zakkmi waited simcity but apparantly it doesnt exist for palm os?06:46
solarionspace trader is classic06:46
solarionmonopoly sucks my life away06:47
zakkmi was hoping for like tycoon/ simulation/ strategy06:47
zakkmor something06:48
Vulcanis[23:46:35] <zakkm> i waited simcity but apparantly it doesnt exist for palm os?06:49
solarionthere's a mercenary game I can't remember06:49
Vulcanisit does06:49
Vulcanisit was shareware06:49
Vulcanisbut I'm sure you could steal a serial06:49
zakkmyou remember name?06:49
solarionanyone know what the packages that want to be autoremoved are?06:49
Vulcaniszakkm: Sim City06:50
zakkmsolarion just do apt-get .. and it would tell you06:50
Vulcanisit was from maxis06:50
zakkmtheres no palm os version?06:50
Vulcanisthis was06:50
zakkmwhat was name06:50
Vulcanisit came from them, and also on the 'games' SD card that palm sold06:50
Vulcanisit was called Sim City06:50
Vulcanisit was an official port, as far as I remember06:50
zakkmahh simcity classic06:51
zakkmahh its black and white06:51
Vulcaniscolor version06:51
Vulcanishes retarded, AND sheltered.06:52
Vulcaniswrong window06:56
solarionzakkm: It was a while ago; the packages are already gone.06:56
solarionrootsh apt-get install osso-software-vesion-rx44-unlocked was the package I was thiknking of07:04
solarionhmm  Still not showing any updates07:06
zakkmmaybe you have to reflash?07:06
solarionprobably.  Don't know how to trigger that, though07:06
solarionah, now it's claiming 43-707:07
solarionmaybe version is on reload.  I didn't see anything that looked like a flashing07:08
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RST38hmoo all09:26
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zakkmanyone know why maemo wont let me delete the virtual memory/ swap09:35
RST38hbecause it is being used?09:39
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zakkmoh uh09:45
zakkmshould i use fat16 or fat32?09:45
disco_stuzakkm: you should use ext209:46
zakkmfor external sd?09:46
disco_stufat32 is fine for external sd09:46
disco_stuits 5am here09:47
zakkmits 2;47am here09:47
disco_stui'll better stop coding and go to sleep09:47
disco_stusee you tomorrow zakkm , happy new year if i dont see ya09:48
zakkmyou too09:48
disco_stugood night09:48
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zakkmgood night09:49
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RST38hTerrible truth is out:
Vulcaniswhat, that Ronald is really a woman?10:15
RST38hAnd a cannibal.10:17
Vulcanis... You thought she was human?10:18
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orifice-n810hmm ... just trying out rtcomm now.  It's definitely better integrated than pidgin ....10:58
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johnxbut pidgin actually works for me and rtcomm stuff doesn't11:01
orifice-n810what have you had trouble with?11:01
Vulcanispidgin supports encryption *nodnod*11:02
qwerty12johnx, rtcomm works for me fine :/. less features but the interface is so much better11:02
orifice-n810Ive always loved pidgin and the only reason im moving away from it now is because it appears to eat my battery life11:02
qwerty12Except for the contacts program nokia included11:02
orifice-n810/msg theorifice hah11:05
orifice-n810I guess that does not work ...11:06
qwerty12You need to be identified to services iirc to /msg11:06
* RST38h also prefers pidgin11:07
orifice-n810Im pretty sure i registered this nick and identified on lpogin11:07
RST38hAnd I like pidgin ui better11:07
orifice-n810Does anyone else find pidgin eats battery life?11:07
orifice-n810Looks like pm only works through the menu: chat - new11:09
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johnxback for real in an hour :P11:11
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theorificehmmm adding a channel (i.e. #maemo) as a buddy to an irc account appears to crash rtcomm11:12
qwerty12probably tries to add all the people in the channel...11:13
qwerty12rtcomm sucks for irc though, xchat ftw11:13
theorificeand apparently there are zero bugs for rtcomm at ....11:15
theorificeOk, I'm about done with rtcomm.11:15
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RST38horiifice: netierh rtcomm norpidgin are good irc clients11:15
theorificeI've found pidgin to be usable.11:15
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RST38hinstall xchat and forget about those two for irc11:16
RST38hBarely (it does not crash)11:16
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RST38hFrom: <>11:35
RST38h(and it is another link exchange site)11:35
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x29a_geezus c.11:42
x29a_i got a microSDHC instead of a miniSDHC11:42
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x29anow i need an adapter from micro->mini11:42
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RST38hand you will get an extra 1GB card11:53
RST38hCiting "three independent sources close to Apple," one who has "actually held the device," TechCrunch says Apple is planning to release a giant iPod touch device with a seven- or nine-inch screen next fall.11:54
RST38hBe afraid.11:54
Vulcanis9 inch screen...11:55
Vulcanisso its like11:55
Stslaptopdoesnt fit well in a pocket?11:55
Vulcanisfits well in my pants11:55
VulcanisI think they're going for the UMPC market11:55
Stslaptopor lightweight tablet market, really11:56
Vulcanisisn't that what a UMPC is?11:56
Vulcanisan expensive, underpowered, lightweight tablet?11:56
VulcanisI mean, if its apple, it will be a pretty, expensive, underpowered, lightweight tablet11:56
Stslaptopstill, if it was a simple slate tablet, i could consider it as part of my desk/whatever11:57
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Vulcanisexcept it will be good for nothing but music11:57
Vulcanisweb browsing will be slow11:57
Vulcaniseverything else will be slow11:58
Vulcanisit will crash11:58
Vulcanisjust like the fscking touch :(11:58
joyiousHi all, I've got a problem with osso_initialization11:58
RST38hA 9" iPodwill be aimed squarely at the tablet market11:59
RST38hSame as NIT11:59
Vulcaniswait, what?11:59
VulcanisRST: Yeah, but 9" doesn't fit in my pocket11:59
RST38hVulcanis: that is diagonal size, not thickness11:59
VulcanisI know11:59
RST38hIt will fit into your backpack too12:00
Vulcanisif its going in my backpack, something that closes, so it doesn't get scratched to hell by everything else, is preferred12:00
joyiousI launch my app from menu, and it just stayed for serveral seconds12:00
Vulcanisesp.  if it has a keyboard12:00
Vulcanisscreensize is 3.5in for the touch, I thought?12:01
RST38hApple does not care if you scratch it after paying them the money12:01
Vulcanisbut I do12:01
Vulcaniswhich is why I would not buy it to shove in my fscking backpack12:02
Vulcanisbut art students might, I guess12:02
RST38hYou won't12:02
RST38hBut a gazillion of world metrosexuals will.12:02
RST38hAnd that is all that matters really12:02
Vulcanissee! I told you, its not going to be the type of screen we think12:02
Vulcanisits going to be long and thin12:02
Vulcanisso they can look like men after they shove it down their pants12:02
RST38hIt will be 16:9. Your next question?12:02
RST38hIf you want the exact dimensions, solve this system of equations:12:03
RST38hw/h = 16/912:06
RST38hw^2 + h^2 = 8112:07
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Stslap~seen johnx12:26
infobotjohnx <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1h 15m 34s ago, saying: 'back for real in an hour :P'.12:26
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qwerty12Haha, wicked. zenmap has an hildon interface, I need to put out working packages soon :)12:30
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johnxthe outside world is a terrible cold place O_o12:33
Vulcanisyou're late12:33
Vulcanis[05:26:54] <infobot> johnx <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1h 15m 34s ago, saying: 'back for real in an hour :P'.12:33
johnxfashionably late12:33
johnxhey RST38h :D12:35
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Stslaphey johnx12:45
Stslaphad a good xmas?12:45
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johnxnot so much. but I'm good now12:45
Stslap btw12:46
Stslaprepository is down until i go and restart it .. :P12:46
Stslap(boots into hildon without rescue menu needed, wifi drivers OK)12:47
Stslapfsck bug fixed12:47
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JaffaX-Fade: what time were you proposing the sprint meeting for? 1900 or 2000 UTC?13:28
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Jaffaalterego: nice14:16
JaffaWhat's the performance of Ruby like?14:17
alteregoYeah, I think it's a little more friendly than the Python loader :)14:17
alteregoIt's comparable to Python.14:17
* Jaffa is still searching for the perfect dev environment for Maemo. It's probably somewhere between Java, Vala, Python and (now) Ruby14:17
Jaffaalterego: you got anything like the python-launcher yet?14:17
alteregoNo, that is next on my list.14:18
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johnxso when's the snow gonna hit you guys?14:32
Stskeepsour most snowy periods are really in feb-mar-april14:33
johnxwow. into april?14:34
johnxI wonder if I'll even see snow this year14:34
Stslapits moist and cold enough there i guess14:34
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johnxnah, not cold enough14:34
johnx10C+ so far14:35
johnxerrr...wait, that's not right.14:35
* johnx still thinks in fahrenheit14:35
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johnxah, well nevermind, down to 1C by friday14:35
* Stskeeps runs the import packages script14:36
johnxawesome. I'll grab that new image and unpack it14:36
* qwerty12_N800 hopes his hacks to xchat source to build in sb work on your builder :) 14:36
* johnx sighs contentedly. beer+chips+real computer+hacking = relaxing christmas eve14:39
johnxs/christmas/new year's/14:39
johnx<- fails14:39
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* Stskeeps rebuilds him14:44
* alterego contemplates what to do now.14:44
crashanddieJaffa, python isn't fast enough, ruby is rudimentary-ishly useless, vala is a joke, and java lacks decent support14:45
alteregoI can continue making the packaging better, improve the plugin loader, write documentation or write examples.14:45
Stskeepscrashanddie: did openjdk work better under debian on tablets? what is the big issue about openjdk on tablet anyway? :P14:46
alteregoRuby is useless?14:46
alteregoSo I've wasted all this time for nothing?!14:46
* alterego weeps.14:46
Stskeepshate when that happens, eh :P14:46
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crashanddieC++ is so slow during compilation (on the device) that it's ridiculous, only C is a decent competitor :P14:46
Stskeepsyou dont want to compile on device14:46
* alterego remote compiles on a server and scp's to device.14:47
crashanddiesay that to lcuk :P14:47
alteregoThat's cloud computing for you :D14:47
johnxStskeeps, definitely not with c++ :)14:47
Stskeepsalterego: i got convinced after waiting for gtk to compile..14:47
crashanddiealterego, not an option without connectivity14:47
crashanddiegtk is plain C, not C++14:47
johnxc++ soaked up the rest of 1GB of RAM and 512MB of swap on my desktop and triggered the OOM killer14:48
johnx...when compiling qt 4.514:48
* Stskeeps has problems getting gconf2-6 going14:48
crashanddiebut that's because there's a loophole johnx14:48
Stskeepson sdk14:48
crashanddiewhile [ $USER -eq "johnx" ] memplusplus;14:48
crashanddiedo done!!14:49
alteregoWhere's solmumaha I want to show him how easy it is to write Ruby home plugins now.14:49
johnxheh...does that install more RAM to my machine?14:49
crashanddiejohnx, nope, just uses one meg at each iteration14:49
crashanddiedon't know mempluplus? Insane app ;)14:49
crashanddieanyway, I'm out, take care, have a good one tonight everyone14:50
alteregoHmm, BRB14:50
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qwerty12_N800bye crashanddie14:50
johnx'night crashanddie.14:50
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Stskeepscan anyone explain to me why the bloody hell nokia has a libgconf2-6 instead of libconf2-4? :P14:52
johnxoh, sad. the thread titled "viewing websites is painful" isn't actually talking about physical discomfort :(14:52
alteregoYes, I find that too. Especially when laying in bed.14:52
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie, if you catch this, you may find useful. but stop being a lazy bastard & setup sbox :p14:53
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suihkulokkiStskeeps: note that the gconf N uses is based on dbus, while the common one uses corba14:53
johnxalterego, I was hoping for: "when I view websites my tablet stabs a small syringe into my hand. is this normal?"14:54
alteregojohnx: :)14:54
alteregoYes, my problem is posture :)14:54
WolfSagejohnx, Nokia has a Heroin tablet?14:54
WolfSageI imagine that'd be a strong seller14:55
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johnxWolfSage, yeah, free trial included. ask your local dealer :D14:55
johnx"Nokia. the first one's always free."14:55
Stskeepssuihkulokki: ah. that explains it14:56
Stskeepssuihkulokki: thanks for that tidbit :)14:56
WolfSage"Nokia. Hooked. For life."14:56
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Stskeepsjohnx: the tablets do have a addictive property..14:56
johnxalterego, yeah, I prefer reading in bed with fbreader set to 90degree rotation14:56
Stskeepsi'm astonished my gf hasn't thrown mine into the wall yet14:56
WolfSageLol, that bad Sts?14:56
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Stskeeps.. then again, she has quite a bad "the west wing" addiction14:56
johnxheh. I'm lucky. my wife enjoys watching hacking as a spectator sport :D14:56
alteregoThat is lucky.14:57
johnxjust as long as she gets to heckle me :P14:57
WolfSage"no, you fool, nmap -sS!"14:58
WolfSageI just can't picture it...14:58
johnxI think she just enjoys my frustration and cursing when I mess up14:59
johnxreally, I don't get it either. I just know I'm keeping her :)14:59
WolfSageHehehe, good call14:59
Stskeepsi was sold after my gf suggested we should have surround sound in our new apartment15:02
WolfSageHell yeah :D15:02
Stskeeps"oh i saw this thing in the commercials.."15:02
WolfSageI have a tiny bedroom and I hooked it up with speakers on the walls in each corner and a sub in the center under the TV15:02
WolfSage's like being in a theatre15:02
johnxlulz. I can't even figure out where on my floor speakers would go15:03
johnxI guess I could hang them from the wall or something, but I'm renting :/15:03
WolfSageI'm renting a room in a house of a friend right now, as long as I fix it when I'm done, she basically is letting me do what I want with it15:04
* johnx can't be bothered to put in the effort15:04
WolfSageWasn't in there a week and I was screwing shelves into the walls for the speakers...15:04
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Stskeepsthe people doing these dorms came up with the solution of wooden bars nearby the roof, so they can easily replace those, and allow people to drill into it and stuff15:05 that was what those things were in college O_o15:05
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timelessanyone here speak fr-CA ?15:10
timeless(or sympathize with those who do)15:11
johnxI have a fiend who speaks a little. but I think his primary language is en-CA15:11
timelesshe'll do15:11
timelesssupposing he buys a device in Quebec15:12
johnxok. should I hand him my n800?15:12
timelessand configures it to fr-CA15:12
timelessand supposing the device can automatically setup a secondary keyboard layout15:12
timeless(in addition to the primary fr-CA)15:12
timelessshould it be:15:12
timelessobviously only two of those might make sense15:13
johnxfor him? jp-JP15:13
timelessbut try to pretend i'm not biased15:13
timelessjohnx: bah15:13
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timelessfor his average neighbors15:13
johnxlike me?15:13
timelessthe question is what would a reasonable expectation be15:13
timeless.... grr15:13
timelessif you were in Quebec15:13
timelessand you saw someone buying a device15:13
timelessand the someone was from Quebec15:13
timelessand didn't speak jp or anything similarly "interesting"15:14
timelesswhich secondary layout should it pick?15:14
johnxyar, en-CA and fr-CA seem to make the most sense unless I'm missing something subtle15:14
johnxis there an en-CA?15:14
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timelessyour only choices are en-US and en-GB15:15
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timelessif there was an en-CA, i wouldn't be asking :)15:15
johnxthat's a good one. I'll ask him tomorrow15:15
johnxI'd be tempted to say en-GB though15:16
WolfSageYou think they'd be more familiar with en-GB than en-US?15:16
timelesskeep in mind, this is keylayout15:16
timelessnot ui text15:16
timelessi'm not saying which is the right answer15:16
timelessi honestly don't know15:16
timelessbut i suspect that just guessing wrong15:17
WolfSageI'd say en-us, because of their proximity to the US... but that may not be a good enough reason15:17
timelesss/wrong/is wrong/15:17
johnxkeylayout, right...tough, but guess in that case en-US15:17
infobottimeless meant: but i suspect that just guessing is wrong15:17
timelessyeah, that's my barely educated guess15:17
timelessnote that i have no idea what the distinctions are between the two layouts15:18
johnxhe's never bitched about his US qwerty laptop15:18
timelessmost likely they're approximately the ones you'd see in your n80015:18
timelessyou're welcome to actually give him the n800 to confirm15:18
Stskeepsok, my wireless AP was stolen from my old dorm.. 3 months later, it calls back from my friggen hometown15:19
johnxin terms of physical fullsize keyboards en-US and en-GB have a couple really odd little differences15:19
Stskeepsi so feel like going with a bat..15:19
johnxit took 3 months for them to set it up?15:19
Stskeepsseems so15:19
johnxthey sound dumb enough to be dangerous15:19
Stskeepsit called back on 2nd of dec though, and i couldn't ssh to it, sadly15:20
Stskeeps(as in, it's not active right now)15:20
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johnxah, sad15:20
Stskeepspondering to set up a trap though15:20
WolfSageCalls back? Was that the intended purpose of whatever you set up to do that?15:21
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Stskeepsyes, it was intentionally set up like that15:21
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Stskeepsit did dyndns and it calls a web server for initialization commands :P15:22
johnxah, but not intentionally setup to catch potential thieves, right?15:22
Stskeepsnot intentionally, but the new ap i set up has :P15:23
WolfSageI mean, was that the intended purpose of the application as you used it ;)15:24
WolfSageNeat though15:24
johnxso..."go over there with a bat" got an address out of it?15:24
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johnxYou can barely get within 15k of my place by the IP I'm pretty sure15:25
johnxkm that is...15:25
WolfSageGood enough for a nuke!15:25
johnxit's *his own* hometown :P15:25
WolfSageSometime sacrifices must be made.15:27
qwerty12_N800I want to see mer final first though :p15:28
johnxa dead man's switch that eventually runs on an imaging reversing/blurring proxy seems like about the right level of annoyance for a stolen $50 AP15:28
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Stskeepsjohnx: was a 100$ ap in this case, so im kinda annoyed :P15:29
Stskeepsjohnx: i got an IP out of it, and the definate area of the IP.. my brother used to live there15:29
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, if you can ssh into it, play with the iptables rules so it redirects the thief to goatse15:30
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: sadly i can't ssh into it right now, don't think it's active15:30
WolfSageSts, send me a plane ticket, I own a few bats, and I can possibly get out of the country before anyone finds out ;)15:30
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, damn :(15:30
johnxqwerty12_N800, so which is better? every image on every page replaced with goatse? or every 10th image?15:30
WolfSageStskeeps, if it comes up, I suppose you can SSH in, get the MAC, then drive around with a laptop and locate it?15:30
lcukdont use goatse, use a nice big red "Heylp, Heylp I has been catnapped"15:31
johnxif it was setup with WPA I bet they haven't even got a computer connected to it. that's probably why they unplugged it and either 1) reflashed it or 2) sold it/pawned it15:31
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qwerty12_N800johnx, i'm thinking :)15:32
johnxlcuk, people leeching inet get da cat. people stealing APs get the goat :P15:32
johnxqwerty12_N800, I don't want to click on that, do I?15:32
WolfSageI dunno, I'd just proxy everything through my own server and get all their info15:32
WolfSageThen destroy them.15:32
qwerty12_N800johnx, it's fine, you have my word (if you trust it :))15:33
lcukhahahaha qwerty15:33
johnxqwerty12_N800, ah yeah. that's the one I was thinking of15:33
lcukjohnx, its fine15:33
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qwerty12_N800Shame my new router sucks, with my old one, i could exec iptables :D15:35
johnxmmm...wrt54g w/ tomato firmware15:36
johnxlulz...up since the last time my wife knocked out the power :)15:36
WolfSageHuh, never tried Tomato, would you recommend it?15:37
johnxyes. so much yes. really slick web interface15:37
johnxand fast and stable15:37
qwerty12_N800No wrt supports my old one but netgear let you make your own images + a toolchain is available for it :). It took me a week but i got snmpd with integration in the web interface :)15:38
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johnxhuh...wonder why it's not supported by openwrt or similar15:38
WolfSageI may have to try that then.15:38
WolfSageI don't really have any complaints with linksys' firmware... minus the AP going down in the middle of my gaming sessions lately...15:39
qwerty12_N800johnx, don't think there is support for the broadcomm chip it uses :/15:39
johnxhmm...hasn't stopped openwrt on the wrt54g/gl. I think they're stuck on 2.415:39
johnxthey might not want to pick up any more lost causes though and I wouldn't blame them15:40
ShadowJKlost causes?15:40
qwerty12_N800yeah, if i really need something done, I just compile it myself and get to hacking on qwerty12.cgi  :)15:41
johnxShadowJK, lost causes: 1) trying to run a modern distro on 2.4 or 2) trying to reverse engineer close drivers and make new ones for 2.615:41
ShadowJKI didn't know it needed binary drivers15:42
WolfSageAhhh, doesn't look like tomato will work with my WRT300N =\15:42
GAN8001Tomato is so much better than ddwrt. For a variety of technical and political reasons. ;)15:42
johnxOption 1) is a good way to go insane. And option 2) is a good way to spend a couple years of weekends15:42
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ShadowJKheh, openwrt webpage claims the wireless is supported now15:48
qwerty12_N800wireless? who'd 'ave thought it?15:49
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lcukshould I take pride in beating a 6 year old at "cars" racing :D16:00
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johnxbut if you do, he won't sleep until he's good enough to beat you16:01
lcukno, he just cried and turned off the wii \@/16:01
johnxah sad :(16:01
johnxwhere's that fighting spirit?16:01
lcuknot really hes a grump for no good reason16:01
johnxhe'll be back later practicing though I bet :)16:02
lcukhe is already16:02
lcukmomentary lapse for him, hes racing a more worthy challenger now (tracy)16:03
lcukhows your xmas gone so far john, did you get mega drunk and pass out in a gutter somewhere16:03
johnxahahah...I didn't have the best christmas ever. but I'm making up for it16:04
lcukgood good16:04
lcukyou shouldv dressed up as santa and terrorized the locals16:04
crashanddiethat's what he meant by "didn't have the best xmas ever", he got nicked by the army whilst trying to steal a policecar for the 52nd time16:08
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lcukcrashanddie, taken in by the foreign legion16:09
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johnxheh...I'd rather steal a taxi here than a police car16:10
johnxany high speed chase is doomed to fail with those FWD eco-boxes16:10
crashanddieyou're better off stealing a car from a 20yo in a dark alley16:10
johnx20yo here don't even own cars except maybe in the country16:12
crashanddieso the fast and furious was a liiiiiiiiiiiie???16:12
johnxah, no of course not. and I highly recommend that you come over here and drive like that. :)16:13
johnxJust tell me in advance so I can video tape it :D16:14
crashanddieI might actually come over before the year is oer16:14
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crashanddie2009 that is16:14
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crashanddieanyway, off again16:15
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johnxfun fun. if you're in the tokyo area before april. look me up :)16:15
crashanddiejohnx, will do16:16
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* Stskeeps sends off an abuse email with no hope of it being answered.16:30
lardmancu chaps, have a nice New Year's Eve16:30
lardmansee you next year :)16:30
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konttoriNice. I've setup a ftp server on my n800 and I'm transferring content to it not at 400 KB/s.16:39
konttoripretty decent. Has anyone tested what's the theoretical throughput of n800/n810?16:40
Stskeepsi think i've seen it at maybe a mb, but not sure16:40
johnxand I wonder if it depends on wireless encryption16:40
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Stskeepsyeah, it isn't likely to be accelerated is it?16:41
konttoriprobably true johnx16:41
johnxcould swear I've seen it just about as fast over scp/sftp16:41
* konttori has no clue whether it's the processor or some dsp doing the decryption/encrption of wlan traffic16:41
johnxunless lardman has been mucking about I'd bet it's on the CPU :)16:43
konttoriHmm... anyway, I'm wondering on whether I should publish the ftp server. I know all devs us scp, but the rest of people are probably using usb connection to transfer all files.16:45
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konttorijohnx: do you think it would be worth it?16:45
qwerty12_N800I think solmumaha has posted proftpd somewhere16:46
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johnxkonttori, I have no idea. :) that's why I said "I wonder if ..."16:46
konttoriI was checking from, but didn't find any16:46
johnxI'm interested, but it's fast enough for me16:46
konttoriI'll be going (naturally) to a new years ball soonish, but I'll write up some UI to the server tomorrow and then publish it (you know, like setting username / pass, setting read or readwrite access, and telling user the IP of the device (again, most people probably don't know that)16:48
johnxit's nice to have it all in one place16:49
Stskeepsjohnx: new hildon-desktop-env and him up16:49
qwerty12_N800ever since I installed avahi-daemon, i've kissed goodbye to remembering my N800's ip :)16:49
johnxany time I avoid the terminal on the n800 is a happy time16:49
qwerty12_N800the gui sounds cool16:49
johnxStskeeps, awesome, will get moving on that stuff...maybe after midnight :)16:49
johnxhey, anyone want to know what 2009 is like? I can get you guys a sneak peak :D16:50
WolfSageAny brighter?16:50
Stskeepsit's "sleepy hollow" foggy outside right now16:50
WolfSageSnowing here16:50's uh...midnight16:50
Stskeepsyesterday both my home ISP and my mobile ISP was down. that freaked me out.16:50
konttoriqwerty12_N800:  ah, true. avahi rocks16:50
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johnxheh...and people's zunes are dying en masse16:51
WolfSagejohnx, not what I meant =P16:51
johnxqwerty12_N800, ah, for that I stick with static DHCP :)16:51
johnxback in 10, after midnight :)16:51
qwerty12_N800johnx, on my old router I had static ip's set...16:52
pupnikkonttori: what throughput do you get with ftp?16:52
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konttori409 KB/s16:52
lcukjohnx, sorry for running, more tantrums (little one is so over tired today, ive told him he can sleep for a whole year soon)16:53
lcukhiya konttori16:53
lcukgood xmas?16:53
pupnikoh i thought you were *not* getting 400kb/s.. nm16:53
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konttorilcuk: I did, how about you?16:54
konttoriI still have 2 weeks of vacation. sweet.16:54
lcukjammy git! had a great time trying with family n stuff, thought about a lot of code16:55
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johnxwoowoo! happy new years to anyone in JST!17:02
lcukhappy new year johnx!  hope this ones good for you17:03
johnxyeah, counting on some better luck :D17:03
qwerty12_N800happy new year :)17:04
johnxthanks :D17:04
* johnx cracks open another beer and looks at the new mer stuffs :D17:04
qwerty12_N800/who *.jp lists a lot :D17:04
* konttori loves flex:
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lcukoooh konttori17:08
Veggenkonttori: I'm of the opinion that binary browserplugins are mostly bad.17:09
konttoriVeggen: idea behind flex is that you can also build apps with it.17:11
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JaffaLooks perfect for writing video playing apps *cough*17:11
konttoriand flex is 100% opensource17:11
lcukveggen, what if it was a binary runtime without the browser?17:12
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konttoriand also, the idea is of course that the apps run the same on windows, osx and linux.17:12
Veggenlcuk: as I said - most cases :) There are exceptions, and browser plugins - open ones, that is - are often a good alternative to binary runtimes.17:12
lcukwhat if you want something *like* coverslow, but not quite the same, im sure its not quite as simple to breakdown and modify17:13
Jaffakonttori: it's open source?17:13
konttoriJaffa: yeah17:13
lcukheh @ freudian, i meant "coverflow"17:13
VeggenLinux/mac/Windows are not much better than just Mac/Windows. I'm not satisfied with just getting the closed stuff for Linux too.17:14
* konttori is planning - you see - to also slightly check out other dev envs on this vacation period.17:14
lcukgood for you konttori :) thats exactly what ive been doing17:14
* lcuk does anyone have any experience with opengl and lines by the way, theres an inbuilt limitation in clutter which means i cannot draw anything17:15
lcukderf, thats very good to know, over the next few days could i bend your ear about a few matters and possibly tease a few examples from you17:17
lcukbecause my googling came up lacking17:17
derfSure, if I'm here.17:17
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lcuktheres also an opengl in gtk library somewhere which gives a direct opengl surface within a standard gtk widget17:17
lcuki half spotted something when i was talking to pippin the other day17:18
lcukthats the one :D, thanks derf17:18
lcuknow i wonder whether those will be compatible to drop in m5, i should be able to test with the pre-alpha kit shouldnt i17:19
derfGekk if I know :).17:19
lcukits worth a look anyway, if i can get really really fast line drawing by using gl then im 90% of the way there17:20
derfgtkglext isn't using anything more than the glx extensions for X11.17:20
derfI don't actually know if OpenGL ES provides those in a normal manner.17:20
lcukyeah ill find out17:20
lcukthats something that can be worked round though, as long as the GL used is minimal and simplistic its not unrealistic to allow targeting to both libraries17:21
konttorilcuk: you might also be able to check out the qgraphicsview as that does have opengl accelerated rendering of pretty much the same stuff cairo has.17:22
derfThe answer, apparently, is no.17:23
lcukbut the performance in cairo on 8x0 isnt up to snuff.  its the same problem im finding with any variation in library im trying.  time and again liqbase routines beat the pants of things17:23
derfIt uses something called EGL instead of GLX.17:24
lcukthats not good17:24
lcukdo we think mplayer will run on the new device?17:24
lcukie another native xv drawing application17:25
johnxif someone doesn't implement xv, whether it's the pandora guys or the beagle guys or the Nokia guys I will leave IRC and cry in the corner of my apt O_o17:27
johnxyou can count on having a decently fast xv implementation17:27
lcukand if things like autorotation or some funky ogl app switcher is needed it can be done in the same way it currently is in linux main.  ie automatic offscreen rendering and texturization and blitting wherever by the OS17:29
johnxyeah, I'm really eager to see whether they're really planning to composite the whole GUI17:29
Stskeepsnah. midway.17:30
JaffaMIDAS/gstreamer'll need xv, won't it?17:30
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lcukwell theres a lot of apps which will write to xv, theres simply no benefit in media codecs decoding movie to YUV, then converting to RGB for display by clutter, then rendering to the screen17:31
lcukyour battery would drop like nobodies business17:31
Stskeepsjohnx: it'll do window manager, task launcher, task switcher, home view, status menu/area, desktop notifications17:31
Stskeepsbasically replacing matchbox (with mb2) and replacing hildon-desktop17:31
Stskeepsthat's the clutter part17:31
JaffaStskeeps: you seen some packages for it already?17:32
StskeepsJaffa: not yet, but this is on fremantle maemo roadmap..17:32
Stskeepsby qgil, so pretty authorative17:32
Stskeepsand everything in source i've seen points to the same17:32
johnxah, well, ok17:33
Stskeepsand it makes sense on a mobile device :P17:34
johnxyou mean to not composite everything?17:34
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Stskeepswell, X apps render into some area anyway :P17:35
* Stskeeps generates v0.517:35
* johnx drinks beer 2.017:36
Stskeepsfuture beer? ;>17:36
johnxheh, think someplace is ahead of me17:37
johnxAustralia maybe?17:37
johnxyeah, I give up on useful code output for tonight. sorry to disappoint ...17:37
Stskeepshehe, it's fine17:37
* lcuk keeps an eye on johnx17:38
Stskeepsi'm going to take some time out of the loop the next 10 days at least17:38
johnxyeah, I'll come up to speed tomorrow night, but for now I'm decompressing from the whole damn month of december O_o17:39
Stskeepshehe, i know, been rough for me too17:39
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* r2d2rogers finally gets around to trying the handwriting calculator in OS2008HE on his 77017:54
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Stskeepsjohnx: oh btw, i finally got mb-2 compiling18:06
johnxah, fun stuff18:07
johnxwas it something interesting?18:07
Stskeepsdidn't try it yet honestly, but the issue was mostly that the libraries it needed wasn't in jaunty just yet at the first point18:07
Stskeepsit has clutter abilities, which is what tipped me off to why it was there, so18:08
woglindehi johnx18:08
woglindejohnx how many hoors at your side?18:08
johnxhey woglinde18:09
johnx'til midnight? -1:09 :)18:09
johnxI'm in the future :)18:09
johnxask me what it's like if you're curious18:09
johnxI should be able to make some predictions18:09
woglindehm 7 to go here18:09
Stskeepsjohnx: did the world go under financially yet? ;>18:10
johnxStskeeps, I haven't even been *out* in the world for 12 hours yet :P18:10
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johnxI just know the zunes are jumping ship from this mortal coil18:10
johnxlike rats from a 19th century ship18:11
Stskeepsyeah, which is hillarious18:11
johnxit's a bad sign18:11
Stskeepsi would be pretty pissed if retu chip started dying on newyears too though18:11
johnxheh...but they didn't18:11
johnxthey died before the 31st18:11
johnxthey committed prospective suicide18:11
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johnxit's the "rats jumping a sinking ship" theory :D they'd rather be dead than on in their users' hands18:12
johnxanyways, I should catch some sleep, got some traveling and visiting to do tomorrow. so happy new year's to all :D18:13
* johnx sleeps18:13
woglindenite johnx18:17
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woglindehi qwerty18:24
qwerty12hi woglinde18:24
woglindeqwerty no party?18:24
qwerty12woglinde, nope :). Don't think people like a qwerty who is pissed off at his rootfs not mounting :)18:25
woglindeqwerty nah18:25
woglindecelebrate new year and it will fix it self18:25
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qwerty12:D. I'm in windows atm anyway, forget linux :P18:26
lcukif anyone is in contact with KotCzarny please pass on new year tidings from me.  hes been dark since he went home18:26
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Stslaptopf*king powersupply18:37
Stslaptopis all hw dying today or something?18:37
b-manwireless is crummy for me today :p18:40
qwerty12Thank god for subtitle synchers...18:41
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woglindehm I will watch some episodes of one piece today18:42
qwerty12woglinde, watching the Matrix again on my tablet and the volume sucks and all the subtitles out there aren't synched with the sound. found a program and it did the job in only a few clicks :)18:43
b-manone piece?18:43
b-mani think i know that show :)18:43
woglindeb-man yeah a popular anime series18:43
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b-mani use to watch it all the time....18:47
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leachim6I need to convert my PDF ebooks to PDB18:49
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woglindegoogle didnt find it?18:49
leachim6actually no18:49
leachim6all the ways didn't work18:50
leachim6it was pdf to html or pdf to text18:50
woglindeyour pdf has drm?18:50
leachim6but no way to convert to palmdoc18:50
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b-manahhhh, i keep getting a damn network timeout when trying to acsess, wifi sucks today. >:(18:57
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r2d2rogersStslap: mer repo down?19:01
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disco_stuany python guy around ?19:10
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woglindenot really19:11
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orifice_work1try #python ....19:12
disco_stuits a pymaemo question.. but i think i found the answer..19:12
woglindeenlight us too19:14
disco_stuwow.. maemowordpy is 4300 lines of code19:15
qwerty12yerga must be one dedicated python coder :19:15
disco_stui talked to him.. it helped me with maemo menus19:16
Stslapr2d2rogers: power supply problems19:16
Stslapgoing to replace it tomorrow19:16
b-mancdeb2 i believe has over 5,000 lines.... if i can recall.19:17
b-mani worked on it for months...19:17
disco_stufrom the good developer techniques that is shit19:17
r2d2rogersStslap: cool, been there before19:17
disco_stuthe hole thing should me modular19:17
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b-mandisco_stu; meh, it was a learn-sa-you-go kinda thing so :P19:18
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Stslapr2d2rogers: got full backup of everything though, so im not -that- worried :P19:18
b-manedit; as19:19
disco_stub-man: i know.. with pymaemo im on the exact same position19:19
r2d2rogersStslap: that's good, I hated it when I lots my backup drive, but I wasn't treating it smart...  USB enclosure in backpack knocked around too much19:20
b-manthe problem with cdeb2 is that it relyed on permissions wayyyy too much.19:20
disco_stubut doing small things.. once you get over 200 lines.. you need to do some engineering19:20
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Stslapr2d2rogers: i lost pictures since 2003 when i moved my backup disk (while remaking my file server), from one building to another.. and dropped it on the sidewalk19:20
Stslapcos the bag broke19:20
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Stslapafter that, i put up very sane backup :P19:21
r2d2rogersI should have when I dropped a HDD on getting out of my car at work in 200019:21
Stslapon the other hand, it made me able to forget about some memories with some ex gfs/flames  :)19:21
r2d2rogersbonus ;)19:21
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woglindere qwerty19:22
qwerty12_1hi woglinde19:23
qwerty12_1I've never had a dvd drive before that refuses to open unless you press the eject button ~20 times 0_019:23
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b-mandisco_stu; it was way to dependent on cdeb2.conf on being root:root and that was it's downfall - allmost every line of code depended on cdeb2.conf.  But i admit, it was shitty. ;)19:24
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disco_stub-man: thats a bad design19:26
disco_stuqwerty12: pressing 20 times or pressing and hold for some seconds ?19:26
Stslapmm. it will definately be interesting to see what ways there'll be to use "standard" apps in hildon, when suddenly the non-hildon app repository explodes19:26
qwerty12_1disco_stu, pressing19:26
b-mani know :P, i could have done way better. ;p19:26
disco_stub-man: of course.. we are so lazy in terms of designing19:27
disco_stuwe just want to code19:27
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b-manheh :)19:27
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* Stslap ponders idly how to convince the gf to watch some sci-fi tonight19:29
r2d2rogersStslap: pick scio fi that's not obvious?19:30
r2d2rogerswhat does she like?19:31
* r2d2rogers just got Dr. Horrible for Christmas19:31
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woglindere qwerty19:32
qwerty12_hi again :D19:32
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woglindelaggy connecntion19:32
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bakaraton maemo (n810), when i do "sudo" it asks for a pass, what is the default pass?19:51
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JaffaThere isn't one.19:52
woglindesudo gainroot19:52
infobotfrom memory, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.19:52
woglindehi jaffa19:52
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, becomeroot is
bakarati don't want to use root as an account, but i would like sudo ;)19:52
b-maninstall rootsh.19:52
Jaffabakarat: see that URL in the wiki19:52
bakarathaving a look :>19:53
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Veggenonce you have become root, you can always modify /etc/sudoers to your liking. dvs. add, not a good idea to remove the system added stuff :)19:54
Veggenbut, time for new year party :)19:54
b-manHAPPY NEWYEAR!!!! 2009!!!!19:57
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qwerty12_N800i knew  intrepid was a pos, booted hardy off a live cd and it mounted the rootfs fine, onetime. Now i've got a clean maemo on my mmc :)20:05
b-manheh, i'm trying to jet jaunty to boot on my tablet using mer components. :)20:09
b-manedit; get20:09
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bakarat1What is the default password for the 'user'?20:21
bakarat1For ssh20:22
GAN800There is no password20:23
bakarat1So i can only ssh in via root account?20:24
solmumahayou can passwd user as root20:28
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GAN800Hi, yerga. :)20:30
yergahey, evening!20:30
disco_stuhellwolf: Hi20:30
disco_stuy mean..20:30
disco_stuyerga: Hi :)20:30
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bakarat3I'd rather not ssh using root account; can i adduser a user, put him in users group, log in and expect full access?20:50
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woglindebakarat  root access or normal acces?21:00
bakarat3Well mostly regular access21:01
woglindessh user@moo21:01
woglindesudo gainroot21:01
woglindepasswd user21:01
woglindeon the tablet21:01
bakarat3Ah setting a password for user doesnt change anything?21:02
woglindeyou have no login manger21:02
woglindex is started as user user21:02
bakarat3Ah k21:02
bakarat3Is root ssh automatically disabled?21:02
woglindeseems so21:02
woglindedidnt remeber how the sshd.conf looks21:03
bakarat3Sweet, thanks a bunch21:03
bakarat3One more thing maybe, how do i reflash when things get hairy?21:03
infobotfrom memory, flasher is
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bakarat3Hmm, from say the note editor, how do i access home? It saves to some vague documents dir i cant track down in home?21:12
RST38hHNY everyone21:14
bakarat3O right hidden folders hehe21:14
bakarat3Thanks again21:14
RST38hAt least anyone in GMT+521:14
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woglinderst hehe21:17
woglindewe have 4 hours to wait21:17
woglindeand johnx is sleeping now21:18
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RST38h1.5 hours here21:26
RST38hthe fireworks already started21:26
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bakarat3How do i bring up the touch keyboard?21:28
woglindebakarat3 n810?21:29
woglindeI always use the hw keyboard21:30
woglindeand the chr key21:30
woglindefor | Symbol21:30
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bakarat3Odd, my text editor [who mysteriously saves in html format] can see my samba share, but file manager can not21:37
bakarat3Ah now i opened the share in editor, it pops up in file manager21:37
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RST38hanyone knows what mips 4kc is?22:11
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woglinderst isnt wiki saying something?22:11
RST38hI am interested to know what its instruction set is22:12
RST38hah, I see: it supports R4000 + conditional moves from r500022:14
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* r2d2rogers is looking for posts about using the NIT for a wireless USB adapter for a desktop PC 22:26
RST38hnever happened so far, afaik22:27
r2d2rogersI guess I need to get the in-laws a wireless router one of these days22:27
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RST38hoh, by wireless usb adapter you mean usb wifi adapter?22:31
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RST38hWhat exactly prevents you from buying a standalone USB Wifi adapter for their pc?22:31
r2d2rogersI was just trying to use what I have on hand...22:34
r2d2rogerstwo 770's and a wired connection to the PC22:34
r2d2rogersthey have no use for wireless, so it would only be for my benefit22:35
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RST38hNOW, HNY23:07
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lcukRST38h, happy new year23:10
lcuki dont think im meant to be a developer23:10
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woglindelcuk hehe23:15
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lcukwoglinde, my problem is that I don't know what APIs exist in the big wide world23:18
woglindelcuk hm we are in the luck23:18
woglindeto have google23:18
woglindeand mailinglists23:19
woglindeand even irc23:19
woglindeask ask ask23:19
lcuknot really, i could spend a week making a tiny function work using the standard api23:19
lcuksure in the long run it will be more beneficial, but if i did that with everything i would still be sat with sdl wondering how to render text quickly23:20
lcukso i write things which work and leave big todos23:20
lcuk(i'm only moaning now because ive just made an xml parser which i know exists but didnt have energy to search and find23:21
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woglindewhy didnt you ask23:22
lcukcos everything takes longer :$ and i always have stupid trouble setting up libraries in the make file and stuff and it always breaks.  cos im technically shit with linux or windows or os'es.23:24
RST38hlcuk: Why don't you ASK what APIs exist then?23:24
lcukcos theres a new one every night23:24
woglinderst thats what I said23:24
RST38hWhy don't you take my makefiles which make library inclusion simple?23:24
lcukim always looking at how things work and needing to extract stuff out of them23:24
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lcukcos i cant read a damned makefile either, its all foreign, i found one way to add new source files as required23:25
lcukyou gotta remember, i came to all this from visual basic23:25
woglindebut thats not an excuse23:25
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RST38hWhy don't you learn about makefiles then? =)23:25
lcukit takes my mind away from making stuff though23:25
woglindelearning autotools istnt that hard23:25
RST38hautotools should die23:25
lcukive spent the entire year learning :$23:25
woglindethen team up with one23:26
woglindethats what community is for23:26
lcukevery single day theres been something new ive needed to do23:26
lcukand the community has helped ever so much23:26
lcuki *do* ask a lot of the time23:26
RST38hlcuk: an explanation how makefiles work took whole 2 pages at the beginning of our CS class back at UMD23:26
woglindeyeah thats the fun23:26
woglindegive and take23:26
RST38hBTW, my Maemo makefile is 20 lines long23:27
RST38hYOu will need about 10 of them23:27
lcukthe problem i have is my cathederal model dev, i dont want people latching onto half complete code and using it fulltime because then i have to maintain it or be pushed in a direction i know wont stay23:27
lcuklots of features within liqbase are transitional, they evolve and dont stay23:28
RST38hLibrary configuration: pkg-config gtk+-2.0 gconf-2.0 libosso hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 --cflags --libs23:28
woglinderead an article about theo de raadt from openbsd23:28
lcukpeople expect things to stay same :$23:28
RST38hThat is all you have to do23:28
woglindelcuk lol23:28
woglindelcuk no23:29
RST38hlcuk: Well, remember what I said? "Stop experimenting, make it a proper product first"23:29
woglindeeven freesoftware users can hold pain23:29
lcukyes RST38h, thats it - but my nighttimes are when i try things and examine and play around23:29
woglindeand changing api and break lot of stuff is common23:29
woglindeso dont worry23:29
RST38hstop trying things23:29
woglindeyour app is cool23:29
woglindethats all23:30
RST38hBy now, you KNOW what the core functionality is23:30
woglindewhat its need23:30
RST38hIt is a huge canvas where you can make notes.23:30
lcuki know what some of it is, you have seen my list - theres things which it cant do yet which need doing23:30
lcukno rst, thats only a tiny fraction23:30
RST38hMake sure that this core functionality works perfectly, has UI, and generally has appeal of an iPhone23:30
RST38hlcuk: It is ok23:30
woglinderst hehe23:31
lcukteeny tiny minute miniscule glimpse23:31
RST38hlcuk: Just make it work.23:31
woglindeshitty iphone23:31
lcukit does - i use it every day23:31
RST38hlcuk: You can add the rest as an experiment23:31
woglindehehe thats it is23:31
woglindethe personal itch23:31
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RST38hBut it is VERY important that the core functionality looks like a product23:31
lcukRST38h, i wanted to have my widget ready by now, i wanted a new year video.  that was my "target".  i havent reached it23:32
RST38hbtw, for yourself too - this way you will feel like you have accomplished somethign23:32
lcukheh, well i havent :P23:32
woglindelcuk you have my honor23:32
woglindefor what you achieve until now23:33
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lcukRST38h, i made 30 different stand alone modules for liqbase, each one an example of some area or other doing something different.  the framework was too crappy to want to share. i want a better more documented core widget to build my apps from so others can also build from them23:34
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lcuk(btw, the framework "works", im just personally unhappy with it, i really need some daytime to spend turning it into a clean library api of its own)23:35
woglindelcuk hehe23:36
woglindethis will come23:36
lcukthanks woglinde :)23:36
woglindetake your time23:36
lcukheh woglinde would love to23:37
woglindeno one expect that you finish it tomorrow23:37
lcuki would :) ive been thinking about this for the last 10 years.  i've always wanted to intuitively interact with my computer.23:38
AStormMind Reading Interface?23:41
lcukno AStorm until this year i did most of my thinking on paper23:42
lcukbut as soon as i turned the page it was gone23:42
AStorm1st point: modes are bad ;)23:43
AStormI hate vim, but emacs needs E-M-A-C-S keys23:43
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AStormand still has modes23:44
chandooi have dell x51v, is any one managed to install and make it work23:44
lcukheh AStorm, gimme a visual gui editor anyday23:44
woglindewhat has the dell todo with maemo23:44
lcukchandoo, install what and get what to work?23:44
AStormlcuk, hmm, eclipse?23:44
lcukewww no, too visual ;) something fast23:45
AStorm(which sucks in other ways)23:45
AStormit is slow due to java23:45
AStormand featuritis23:45
AStormhmm, gedit was good23:45
AStormand kate23:45
lcuki like komodo23:45
AStormI don't remember komodo23:45
lcukits the only one ive tried that "felt" like the vb6 code editor23:46
lcuk(and now looks like it as well)23:46
chandoolcuk: maemo image23:46
AStormlcuk, that one was nice, yup23:47
lcukchandoo, the default nokia supplied maemo os image is targeted at the nokia devices.23:47
AStormbut I prefer Delphi one23:47
AStormchandoo, yes, you might want to try maemo SDK instead23:47
lcukthere is talk about getting a community distro together which may at some point allow installation on other devices (its already got an x86 target i believe)23:47
lcukcheckout the Mer project23:48
lcukbut that is not in any way shape or form nearly complete23:48
lcukso, to answer your question properly ;) no, come back and ask in 12 months23:49
*** b-man has joined #maemo23:51
chandooAStorm: try what23:53
AStormmaemo SDK23:53
chandooon laptop?23:53
AStormit's not a full distro23:53
AStormjust a chroot and build system23:53
AStormcan run maemo apps23:54
chandooi very much want to buy nokia N810, cos it has gps, but with no applications23:55
b-mani'm currently installing Ubuntu jaunty on my N800...23:58

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